From 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it  Mon Mar 22 06:45:28 2004
From: 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:45:28 +0100
Subject: httplib throw a proxy
Message-ID: <%lA7c.4248$jY1.3441@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

I'm using a library based on httplib.
Recently i've done a conversion for use of https with a key and 
certificate file. This goes perfectly :-) .

Now, the problem is passing throw an http_proxy.
It seems because httplib (based on socket.py) try to autenticate on the 
proxy.


I'm only with this problem ? it's impossible :-|

any ideas ?
thank's all
Glauco


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 23:48:39 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 04:48:39 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca> <c457ad029rc@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <40665A39.DF0AC455@doe.carleton.ca>

Petri wrote:
> 
> In article <40652B0D.7C313F77 at doe.carleton.ca>, Fred Ma says...
> > One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
> > files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
> > hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
> > to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
> > The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
> > have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.
> 
> The translator, is it doing the Verilog stuff you mention later in the thread?
> Why not check if you can't replace the translator altogether with an existing
> Perl module:
> http://search.cpan.org/search?query=verilog&mode=all
> 
> Well, I know nothing about your problem area, but it's a tip in case you hadn't
> thought about checking CPAN.
> 
> Petri

Actually, I was spending much of last week installing many
of those tools!  The translater (verilator) is Perl-based,
written by Wilson Snyder (author of many of those tools)
and relies on many of those tools.  But thanks for the tip...

Fred


From john at neggie.net  Wed Mar 24 15:18:17 2004
From: john at neggie.net (John Belmonte)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:18:17 -0500
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <16481.60337.370411.907718@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
	<16481.60337.370411.907718@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4061ED09.1080506@neggie.net>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> How about:
> 
>     class nullFile:
>         def _null(self, *args, **kwds):
>             pass
> 
>         def __getattr__(self, name):
>             return self._null

Hi,

Unless I'm misunderstanding your code, this object is not going to give 
me a legitimate file descriptor that I can pass to another program.

-John


-- 
http:// if  ile.org/



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 26 13:47:46 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:47:46 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000, Peter Hickman
> <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
>
> >Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like'
> >language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
> >
> >Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what
> >makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define
> >scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed
> >from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.
>
> Very interesting ...

Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
lines, thus destroying the indentation.

An interesting language that has just dropped off of
my radar screen as being unusable in my environment.

John Roth




From emile at fenx.com  Tue Mar  2 14:53:05 2004
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:53:05 -0800
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
References: <ptbvktt7.fsf@python.net>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOECJJEAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <c22okq$ua$1@sea.gmane.org>


Tim:
> [Thomas]
> > I get exactly the same, on Win XP Pro, both for sys.stdout and
> > sys.stderr.
>
> That's good to know!  Thanks.
>
> > ...
> > Since it seems XP shows the same behaviour than win98SE, has the
> > behaviour of Python changed?  Were IOErrors ignored on sys.stdout
or
> > sys.stderr in earlier versions?
>
> No, the same program fails the same way here under pythonw 2.2.3 and
2.1.3
> (with s/file/open/ and s/True/1/).  The OP wasn't clear about what
"it"
> meant, though (in "it used to work").  I guess it's most likely he
meant
> running Zope 2.5 as a service used to work, not that running Zope
2.5 by
> hand from a DOS box with pythonw used to work, but don't know.  It's
> certainly possible that something relevant changed in Zope, and/or
in how
> Zope tries to live with Windows services.

To clarify, at that site I'm migrating from zope2.5/python2.1/win2k
box to zope2.7/python2.3/winxppro.  When "it used to work" I was
referring to my product running within zope as a service.  For initial
debugging in the new environment, I started in console mode.  Once
things stabilized, I started the service up and the problem surfaced.
Backtracking through the code I found the service starting the
application as per my earlier post with pythonw.exe which led me to
the direct comparison.

It did look like there'd been some significant refactoring going on
within zope and windows service interaction, but replicating the
effect directly using pythonw vs python seems to take that out of the
picture. (hence the post to the python list and not the zope list.  I
really should remember that python-dev is an open list now...)

At this point, I won't be back to that site before next week, although
I may take some time to test this weekend.  It sounds like I should
rework any areas that spew output to the console.  Is there something
better than checking os.path.basename(sys.executable)?

>
> ideas-ain't-code-ly y'rs  - tim

That'd be too easy!  Just ask that other Tim...

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx dot com
emile at fenx.com






From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar  5 18:07:30 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:07:30 +0100
Subject: Split a sentence by punctuations using Python
References: <14b36d18.0403051444.21b3937e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2b17i$7hq$02$1@news.t-online.com>

chad wrote:

> I want to split sentences by using punctuations, numeric numbers as
> the delimiters.
> 
> For example, suppose I have a text that contains sentences like so:
> 
> "To help you get there a bit faster, I will be driving at 120 miles an
> hour (I am just kidding). Is that OK?"
> 
> Now, I want to get the following segments from this text:
> 
> To help you get there a bit faster
> I will be driving at
> miles an hour
> I am just kidding
> Is that OK
> 
> You know, string.split does not work for this objective.  So how can i
> achieve this?  Thanks.

>>> s
'To help you get there a bit faster, I will be driving at 120 miles an hour
(I am just kidding). Is that OK?'
>>> r = re.compile("[,.?()\\d]+ *")
>>> print "\n".join(r.split(s))
To help you get there a bit faster
I will be driving at
miles an hour
I am just kidding
Is that OK

>>>

Is this OK? Note the trailing empty line. If this is not desired, just
remove the last list item if empty.

Peter


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 03:45:59 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:45:59 -0800
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
In-Reply-To: <c48ho9$d69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c48153$909$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c48ho9$d69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c48nu8$smj$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> The __del__ method may not always be called. I find the WeakValueDictionary
> handy (which internally uses callbacks I think).

OOO, even better, use the weakref standard method for doing it.

I haven't done extensive testing, but on those occasions where I've used 
the class I provided earlier, everything eventually got deleted.  It was 
likely a function of the object heirarchy and interaction in my tests 
and applications.  That is, not likely to be duplicated by any sane 
person *wink*.

  - Josiah


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 08:45:53 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 05:45:53 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
	<40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote

> What part of the semantics are you unclear about?  Two sequences are
> equal if they are element-wise equal.

That definition is circular.

> That is the definition that people rely on, 

Yes.

> that's the definition that the interpreter uses,

No.

> and that definition is even consistent with the behavior you saw with the
> self-referencing lists which for some reason surprised you.

Yes, s==w is consistent with the definition, but s!=w would also have
been consistent with it.

Consider for instance the following definition: 
* all strings and numbers are called "well-founded"
* a list is called well-founded if and only if all its elements are
well-founded.

l=[]
l.append(l)
Is l well-founded? Both answers "yes" and "no" are consistent with the
above definition. If you write a program to determine whether a given
list is well-founded, it will run into an infinite loop. Similarly, if
you try to write a program implementing the above simple-minded
definition of list-equality, it'll run into an infinite loop. Since
Python does not run into an infinite loop, it must use a different
definition.

Axel


From sigurd at 12move.de  Fri Mar 26 17:32:55 2004
From: sigurd at 12move.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?Karl_Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:32:55 +0100
Subject: Passing items of a lsit as arguments
References: <c427fr$22qgbe$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m33c7vmeaw.fsf@hamster.pflaesterer.de>

On 26 Mar 2004, Tobias Pfeiffer <- me at privacy.net wrote:

> the Tkinter.Canvas.create_polygon function. I got the coordinates in a 
> long list but how can I achieve that every item in this list is passed as 
> a single parameter?

> Example:
> bla = [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6), ...]
> has to become
> create_polygon((1,2), (3,4), (5,6), ..., fill=blue)

Either:
apply(create_polygon, bla)
or:
create_polygon(* bla)


   KP

-- 
You know you've been sitting in front of your Lisp machine too long
when you go out to the junk food machine and start wondering how to
make it give you the CADR of Item H so you can get that yummie
chocolate cupcake that's stuck behind the disgusting vanilla one.


From k.robert at gmx.de  Mon Mar 22 08:05:21 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 05:05:21 -0800
Subject: webbrowser.open_new alternatives for Windows
Message-ID: <19804fd8.0403220505.509b6ee2@posting.google.com>

how can i open a _NEW_ browser window on Windows ?
(It should be browser independent. at least for IE, Mozilla &
Netscape)

i found a snippet/suggestion for "IE only" in this group but it
doesn't work, open also in old window:


from win32com.client import Dispatch
def start(url):
    w=Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
    w.Navigate2(url)
    w.visible=1
start("http://www.python.org")
start("http://www.zope.com")



Robert


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Mar  5 12:16:50 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:16:50 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> schreef:

> * (defmethod foo ((x integer))

> * (defmethod foo ((x string))

> The ANSI standard for the _dynamically typed_ language shown above,

Maybe someone can explain, but the above doesn't look like "dynamic typing" 
to me...?

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Mon Mar  8 21:33:54 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:33:54 GMT
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <slrnc4ptnh.v3n.grey@dmiyu.org>
	<2004030818081575249%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <slrnc4qb8i.viu.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-03-09, Simon Willison <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
> We've already looked at mailman and a number of other packages. None of 
> them fit our requirements as we need to be able to tie the list 
> administration in to our existing user authentication / admin control 
> panel, plus we want to tie the email lists to our membership databases. 
> We've got most of the other infrastructure already, we just need an 
> efficient way of sending out bulk emails to a large list of addresses.

    I submit to you that either hacking in authentication and a method to
extract your membership database to a Mailman list would be far simpler than
attempting to implement a bulk SMTP client along with the associated support
structures (bounce handling, et al).  ;)

    Python is, if nothing else, extremely modular.  Or so I am told.  =D

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Wed Mar 24 00:03:11 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 21:03:11 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<e4e0340c.0403221615.356e8794@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.266.1080024073.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403232103.7fd0d6b0@posting.google.com>

Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote in message news:<mailman.266.1080024073.742.python-list at python.org>...
> On 23-mrt-04, at 1:15, Jess Austin wrote:
> > class foo(object):
> >     def __foo_method(...)
> >         ....
> >     bar = decorator1(__foo_method)
> >     baz = decorator2(__foo_method, arg1, arg2)
> >
> > I can't imagine the exact use for this, but I can imagine that there
> > could be a use.  If the syntax remains as it is, that is.  This PEP
> > seems to shoot itself in the foot in this respect.
> 
> The syntax in PEP318 is syntactic sugar for the most common use of 
> function decorators, the current syntax would still be supported.

That's good to hear.  Should this be made explicit in the PEP?


From brian at chrissyandbrian.com  Tue Mar  9 15:40:45 2004
From: brian at chrissyandbrian.com (Brian)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 12:40:45 -0800
Subject: wine as a platform independent GUI toolkit
Message-ID: <a4f8b025.0403091240.50bf6c23@posting.google.com>

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/gui.html lists the Python
interfaces/wrappers/bindings to various widget sets (Tcl/Tk,
wxWindows, Qt, GTk+, FLTK, FOX, and OpenGL).  I'm surprised that
nothing exists for wine.  The only solution I can think of is to
install the win32 python and Pythonwin, but this seems akward to me. 
Is there any way for me to run a python script natively on linux that
drives a win32 gui (running with wine).  In other words, is there any
way to hook into the Wine widget toolkit?


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 21:28:15 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:28:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5caf4.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <20040316022815.34801.qmail@web8311.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote: > In article
>
<mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list at python.org>,
> Premshree Pillai wrote:
> > Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
> > typing, I think. Static typing has to do with
> explicit
> > declaration (initialization) of variables (and not
> of
> > variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python too
> is
> 
> Is that an official definition from somewhere? 
> Cause I always thought
> static typing was about variable types.
> 
> Joe
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hmm...I might have been a little wrong there. However,
what I wanted to stress was that it's the explicit
declaration of the variable that matters (that makes
static typing what it is).

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From pwatson at redlinec.com  Sat Mar 13 16:20:20 2004
From: pwatson at redlinec.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:20:20 -0600
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
Message-ID: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net>

How can I get the escapes from a command line parameter interpreted?

The user provides a string on the command line.  The string might contain
traditional escapes such as \t, \n, etc.  It might also contain escaped
octal or hex such as \001 or \x09.

The escapes are coming into sys.argv[] without shell interpretation.  Do I
need to use the compile module to make this work?  Any suggestions?

===
$ cat ./try_arglen2.py
#! /usr/bin/env python
import sys, StringIO
print sys.argv[1]

print sys.argv[1] % ()

sf = StringIO.StringIO()
print >> sf, sys.argv[1],
c = sf.getvalue()
sf.close()
print "now" + c + "is" + c + "the"

# This works because the interpreter is processing the escapes.

sf = StringIO.StringIO("\001")
c = sf.getvalue()
sf.close()
print "now" + c + "is" + c + "the"

===
$ ./try_arglen2.py '\001'
\001
\001
now\001is\001the
now?is?the




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 09:58:38 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:58:38 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
References: <eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16471.5662.587304.503908@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> What if one of your users does something like 'y = M1.x + 1'; then
    >> what are you going to do?

    Dave> The goal is *not* to put the program into the state it "would have
    Dave> been" had the changes in M1 been done earlier.  That is
    Dave> impossible.  We simply want to have all *direct* references to
    Dave> objects in M1 be updated.  

The above looks like a pretty direct reference to M1.x. <0.5 wink>

It seems to me that you have a continuum from "don't update anything" to
"track and update everything":

    don't update       update global       update all direct      update
      anything         funcs/classes           references       everything

      reload()         super_reload()            Dave            nobody?

Other ideas have been mentioned, like fiddling the __bases__ of existing
instances or updating active local variables.  I'm not sure precisely where
those concepts fall on the continuum.  Certainly to the right of
super_reload() though.

In my opinion you do what's easy as a first step then extend it as you can.
I think you have to punt on shared objects (ints, None, etc).  This isn't
worth changing the semantics of the language even in some sort of
interactive debug mode.

Sitting for long periods in an interactive session and expecting it to track
your changes is foreign to me.  I will admit to doing stuff like this for
short sessions:

    >>> import foo
    >>> x = foo.Foo(...)
    >>> x.do_it()
    ...
    TypeError ...
    >>> # damn! tweak foo.Foo class in emacs
    >>> reload(foo)
    >>> x = foo.Foo(...)
    >>> x.do_it()
    ...

but that's relatively rare, doesn't go on for many cycles, and is only made
tolerable by the presence of readline/command retrieval/copy-n-paste in the
interactive environment.

Maybe it's just the nature of your users and their background, but an
(edit/test/run)+ cycle seems much more common in the Python community than a
run/(edit/reload)+ cycle.  Note the missing "test" from the second cycle and
from the above pseudo-transcript.  I think some Python programmers would
take the opportunity to add an extra test case to their code in the first
cycle, where in the second cycle the testing is going on at the interactive
prompt where it can get lost.  "I don't need to write a test case.  It will
just slow me down.  The interactive session will tell me when I've got it
right."  Of course, once the interactive sessions has ended, the sequence of
statements you executed is not automatically saved.  You still need to pop
back to your editor to take care of that.  It's a small matter of
discipline, but then so is not creating aliases in the first place.

    Dave> Reload() will always be a function that needs to be used
    Dave> cautiously.  Changes in a running program can propagate in strange
    Dave> ways.  "Train wreck" was the term another poster used.

Precisely.  You may wind up making reload() easier to explain in the common
case, but introduce subtleties which are tougher to predict (instances whose
__bases__ change or don't change depending how far along the above continuum
you take things).  I think changing the definitions of functions and classes
will be the much more likely result of edits requiring reloads than tweaking
small integers or strings.  Forcing people to recreate instances is
generally not that big of a deal.

Finally, I will drag the last line out of Tim's "The Zen of Python":

    Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

By making it easier for your users to get away with aliases like

    x = M1.x

you erode the namespace concept ever so slightly just to save typing a
couple extra characters or executing a couple extra bytecodes.  Why can't
they just type M1.x again?  I don't think the savings is really worth it in
the long run.

Skip



From Spam at ivonet.nl  Mon Mar  1 11:43:14 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:43:14 +0100
Subject: How to use __getattribute__ to access a class attribute?
References: <40425d1b$0$41761$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <40436822$0$140$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

A good read you can find : www.diveintopython.com

"Ruud de Jong" <ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl> wrote in message
news:40425d1b$0$41761$5fc3050 at dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
> I have the situation where I need to construct the name
> of a static method, and then retrieve the corresponding
> function from a class object.
>
> I thought I could just use __getattribute__ for this purpose.
> This works fine if I already have an instantiation of the class,
> but not when I try this on the class object directly.
>
> A bare bones example:
>
>  >>> class C(object):
> def a():
> print "static method a"
> a = staticmethod(a)
>
> It works for a instantiation of class C:
>
>  >>> x = C()
>  >>> x.a
> <function a at 0x00A981B0>
>  >>> x.__getattribute__('a')
> <function a at 0x00A981B0>
>  >>> x.__getattribute__('a')()
> static method a
>
> But for the class object it works differently:
>
>  >>> C.a
> <function a at 0x00A981B0>
>  >>> C.__getattribute__(C,'a')
> <staticmethod object at 0x00AC6A10>
>  >>> C.a()
> static method a
>  >>> C.__getattribute__(C,'a')()
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#219>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>      C.__getattribute__(C,'a')()
> TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable
>
> After some experimentation and documentation searching,
> I found that to get at the actual function, the __get__
> method for the staticmethod descriptor must be called:
>
>  >>> C.__getattribute__(C,'a').__get__(None, C)
> <function a at 0x00A981B0>
>  >>> C.__getattribute__(C,'a').__get__(None, C)()
> static method a
>
> If I use an class instance as the first argument
> it works OK. But I ran into this problem when I tried
> to use __getattribute__ in the __new__ function of a class
> -- there is no class instance yet at that point,
> and calling C() there leads to infinite recursion.
>
> Another variant that worked is to call __getattribute__
> on the metaclass:
>
>  >>> type(C).__getattribute__(C,'a')
> <function a at 0x00A981B0>
>  >>> type(C).__getattribute__(C,'a')()
> static method a
>
> But according to section 3.3.2.1 of the Language Reference
> (More attribute access for new-style classes),
> __getattribute__ "... should return the (computed) attribute value".
> This could be interpreted to say that __getattribute__ should
> return the function, not the staticmethod object.
>
> Is there a reason for this difference in behavior?
>




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 20:12:10 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:12:10 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3fs41$2vbc$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch><mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.170.1079729576.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fs41$2vbc$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <c3g5v1$mcp$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> Since it seems to be definitly illegal, it would only worth further work 
> if I would somehow 'fix' python to work with this kind of names, which 
> is both above my skills and likely unwanted. Having a clear error 
> message at import time would be nice anyway.

I've only ever heard of you wanting such behavior.  I honestly doubt 
that anyone is going to try to fix something that is not considered broken.

You should consider renaming your files.  Are names like "name_1.py" 
good enough for your use?

  - Josiah


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Mar 12 12:36:26 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:36:26 -0300
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383737@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Jason Harper wrote:

#- You have two issues here:
#- 
#- 1. Don't use the quit method, instead just close your 
#- window.  Your QUIT
#- button could perhaps use:
#- 	command=self.destroy

Used command=master.destroy. This way I'm telling "destroy" to the Tk
instance.


#- 2. Don't call mainloop() if IDLE already has one running.  Try this:
#- 
#- import sys
#- if "idlelib" not in sys.modules:
#- 	root.mainloop()



Thank you very much!

As Gerrit Muller, I think this should be standard information. It's
important because Tkinter is the built in GUI and IDLE is the built in IDE.

Don't know if Fredrik Lundh is reading this, but I used "An Introduction to
Tkinter" from him and I think these issues should be there.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
Telef?nica Comunicaciones Personales S.A. no aceptar? ninguna obligaci?n
cualquiera sea el resultante de este mensaje. 

Muchas Gracias.
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From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 12:01:58 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:01:58 GMT
Subject: declaring multimethods [Was: Re: PEP 318]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc63e2s.3sn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list at python.org>, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Using the proposed PEP 318 semantics, at the time decorator(<function>) is
> called, it will be passed a function object but "__mul__" will not have been
> seen yet.  However, the function object's func_name field should have been
> filled in.  That should give it enough information to build a new function

Oh, good.  That's what I proposed in another post - I guess I didn't
read the PEP closely enough to realize it was already like this.  (It's
a bit weird to have a function with a func_name filled in, but actually
looking up that func_name will return something else or nothing!  But
there would never be a reason to do that when you already have the
function object, so it's a useful asymmetry.)

> type names.  That presents another problem.  Classes, unlike functions,
> don't have name attributes, so mapping the names passed to multimethod() to

Perhaps they should.  (But that's another PEP!)

> It certainly seems doable, but the end result doesn't seem all that pretty.
> I think it would look sort of like:
> 
>     class Matrix [attributes(_name="Matrix")]:

(Why not just "class Matrix: _name = "Matrix" ..."?  "attributes" looks
a little wordy to me.  Just a question of style, but I want to know if
there's a technical reason I'm missing.)

>         def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod("Matrix","Matrix")]:
>             ...
>             return result
> 
>         def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod("Matrix","Vector")]:
>             ...
>             return result
> 
>         def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod("Matrix","Scalar")]:
>             ...
>             return result

I think my preferred way to do this would be just

    class MatrixBase:
        pass

    class Matrix(MatrixBase):
        def __mul__(self, other) [multimethod(MatrixBase, MatrixBase)]:
            ...
            return result

That gets around the only case that won't work due to visibility,
without forcing all the other cases to use ugly strings. 

Joe


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 16 09:00:36 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:36 -0600
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <EWx5c.30346$zm5.12052@nntpserver.swip.net>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<EWx5c.30346$zm5.12052@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <20040316140036.GF2446@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:26:08AM +0100, Nicolas Bouillon wrote:
> Thank you both for your answer. They works well both very good.
> 
> First, i believe i doesn't work, because the error i've made is to 
> forgot the "u" for string : u"?". Because my file was already utf-8 
> encoded (# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-), i thinks the "u" is not necessary... 
> i was wrong.

When there are non-unicode string literals in a file, they are simply
byte sequences.  Take this program, for instance:

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
s = "?"
print len(s), repr(s)

$ python bytestr.py
2 '\xc3\xa9'

Jeff



From bh at intevation.de  Mon Mar 15 06:26:54 2004
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:26:54 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com> <x71xnzhvb7.fsf@handshake.de>
	<2c60a528.0403150152.6af7f53f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s9zllm25p1d.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) writes:

>> A package writer does know which external modules/packages he needs
>> and can avoid to use the name of one of these modules for his
>> own modules.
>
> But it's not just used in packages, where the filenames of sibling
> modules are known. There may be scripts in directories with many
> unrelated files, for which relative importing would be highly
> undesirable (or even, in a directory where someone other than the
> owner has write-access, a possible security risk).

That's a completely different issue.  The pep is about relative imports
in a package.  The problem you describe comes from Python inserting the
directory containing the script to sys.path.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 25 10:55:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:55:06 -0600
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <3c7xaqh0.fsf@python.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
	<4062EF99.1050802@zope.com> <fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net>
	<4062F88C.40200@zope.com> <3c7xaqh0.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <16483.218.773211.911225@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> What I don't like about the third alternative is the subtle
    >> distinction between parentheses and square brackets.  It seems like
    >> newbies would have a hard time with it, as would advanced programmers
    >> who are looking over a new code base.

    Thomas> That may be true, especially for classes.  But as understand it,
    Thomas> the main purpose of PEP 318 is for function decorators, not
    Thomas> class decorators.  And for functions it is clearer, since you
    Thomas> always have a parameter list.

I'm working on changes to PEP 318 which incorporate class decorators.
Michael Hudson's latest patch supports them.

Skip



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Mar 19 12:16:25 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:16:25 -0300
Subject: Spanish FAQ
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383776@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People:

I translated the Python General FAQ.

It's in http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/facundo/python/index.html

I'm trying to get it hosted in python.org, if the location changes, I'll
tell you.

Enjoy it!

.	Facundo






. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
Telef?nica Comunicaciones Personales S.A. no aceptar? ninguna obligaci?n
cualquiera sea el resultante de este mensaje. 

Muchas Gracias.
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From LISTSERV at LSV.CERAMICS.ORG  Mon Mar  1 14:05:27 2004
From: LISTSERV at LSV.CERAMICS.ORG (L-Soft list server at clayart (1.8d))
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:05:27 -0500
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:14:41 -0600...")
Message-ID: <402A21D600017F0E@mercury.acers> (added by mercury.acers)

Your message dated Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:14:41 -0600 with subject "Re: Your
document" has been  submitted to the moderator of the  CLAYART list: Mel
Jacobson <melpots2 at PCLINK.COM>.



From llothar at web.de  Fri Mar 19 15:33:51 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 12:33:51 -0800
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403191233.598912fc@posting.google.com>

sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu (Jason) wrote in message news:<480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d at posting.google.com>...
> Hey,
> 
> I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
> implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
> (1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
> REALLY slow.
> 
> Basically, you specify two directed line segments in the coordinate
> system of a raster image and use the difference between those two
> lines to transform the image.
> 
> for a 400 x 600 image, python takes about 30 seconds to run the
> algorithm. This seems way to slow - I would expect it to run in a
> matter of a few seconds. Here's the code: what should I do to speed
> things up? I know I'm going to get a "do it in C/make a C extension"
> but that defeats the purpose: I'd like to know what Python can do
> here.

If you can't go with the mentioned compilers (psycho) or libraries
there is nothing else then writing C. Python is best at glueing code
together. Writing numerical or highly mathematical algorithms in
python will always result in 10000% overhead.

Maybe you want to look at GNU eiffel (smarteiffel). 

Remember there is no silver bullet !


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Wed Mar 10 03:54:53 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:54:53 +0200
Subject: [OT] C unit testing suite
Message-ID: <c2ml6u$iuq$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

I'm looking for a good C unit testing suite.
Any recommendations?

Thanks.
Miki


From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Wed Mar 24 02:11:42 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:11:42 GMT
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
In-Reply-To: <rgf7j1-ke2.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<pl36j1-10q.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3qo9v$tr3$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
	<rgf7j1-ke2.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <Owa8c.13991$W23.3512@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Roger Binns wrote:

>>Any new stuff I write (ha!) I'll use the most recent Python.
> 
> 
> It would be really nice if you could get together with TLS Lite.

We already have (perhaps unbeknownst to Ng ;-).   TLS Lite can use 
M2Crypto for fast RSA and ciphers.


> That way Python will have a pure Python implementation of it
> all, but also native code accelerators.  You have both also
> done integration work with the Python standard library
> (httplib, xmlrpc etc) and there isn't any value in
> duplication.

The APIs are different so you couldn't directly re-use the integration 
work.

But M2Crypto integrates with things I don't, like urllib, xmlrpclib, 
Zope, etc.  If I get around to trying to integrate with those things, 
I'll probably try to steal some ideas...


Trevor


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 22 02:50:06 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:50:06 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Is it really the case that it isn't even recommended to distribute one's
> application as .pyc files?
>
> In commercial apps for which one might not want to distribute the source
> for, it would be really nice if one can count on just requiring the end-user
> to install a version of Python (but not extra extension modules anymore) and
> then distribute the app as a bunch of .pyc's packaged in a .zip file and
> use the PYTHONPATH method you showed.  Just remember to provide a set of
> .pyc's for each version of Python you support.

In the Java world, the JVM is a seperate installable component.
Some installers like ZeroG will install them for you.  In general
all Java bytecode is expected (but not required) to share the
main system JVM.

In Python, if you want to distribute an application, and you
don't want the user to have to install Python or any extensions,
you use one of the installer generators out there.  They gather
up the interpretter, your code and extension libraries and dump
them all into one directory.  They then include a stub that makes
them all work together.  It especially has no reliance on any
pre-installed interpretter.

If you want to see this in action, try my project at
http://bitpim.sf.net  The downloads give you a program that runs
on Windows, Mac and Linux without any prerequisites.  If you
examine the install directory, you will find the find Python
interpretter DLL or binary, all needed extension shared libraries
and the program code (often as .pyc files in a zip archive or
appended to the main binary).

Note that the installer generator happens to know what formats
and other quirks the Python interpretter works with which is why
it does include some .pyc's.

> In Java, profiling info may not be written out to disk, but the
> bytecodes certainly are (they are what is in the class files).  Which
> is roughly equivalent to what happens with .pyc files, correct?

You are pedantically correct in that they both contain bytecode, but
the level is different.  *If* the JVM wrote out HotSpot compilations
and profiling information, the resulting files would be analogous to
.pyc files.  They would not be *required* for execution, and they
would be automatically regenerated if necessary (eg if you changed
source files).  In theory it could then execute from them without
requiring the original class files, but that would be an implementation
specific thing.

> .pyc
> files don't contain profiling info, nor was I ever aware that the Python
> VM even does run-time behaviour profiling... (Pysco may, though)

I don't know of any implementations that do, but the implementations
are free to do so.  As I keep saying, .pyc files are an implementation
specific detail of one version of one implementation of the Python
interpretter.  It can make as many intermediate file formats and contents
as it wants, as can any other implementation.  The only requirement for
a conforming Python implementation is that it execute Python *source*,
and how it does it under the scenes is not specified.

> In practice though, there is really just one implementation of Python
> (with the standard libraries... excluding Jython) which works using the
> same bytecode mechanism on _all_ platforms, so as far as I can tell,
> it would be quite feasible to distribute applications in .pyc form.

If you distribute the exact interpretter that generated those exact
.pyc files then you will be fine in practise.  That is what the various
installer generators out there do.  Some examples are py2exe, cx_Freeze
and BundleBuilder which is what my project uses on Windows, Linux and
Mac respectively.

With the addition of zip imports in Python 2.3, I think things will
lead to a unification of the installer generators out there (there have
been several different ones, often limited to a subset of platforms for
historical reasons).

Roger




From paul at boddie.net  Fri Mar  5 06:04:17 2004
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 03:04:17 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<23891c90.0403040241.60eb33a4@posting.google.com>
	<7x7jy0o8qd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<qnkd67swfld.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<7x7jy0cg4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0403050304.b637d@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7x7jy0cg4h.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> 
> Yes, but once you add such a module, you're no longer comparing PHP to
> Python.  You're comparing PHP to {Python plus some third party package
> whose stability etc. you have to evaluate from scratch}.  That's an
> issue that people trying to deploy real-world production servers care
> about regardless of how much academics and hobbyists tend to brush it
> off.

So how does it all work when you're deploying something in, say, C or
C++? Those languages don't give you anything above and beyond basic
input/output support and some nice data structures (if you're lucky).
Now, I know that the average Microsoft shop will then state that
they're really developing something with Visual Studio and the usual
Microsoft libraries, and that supposedly gives you the "comfort" of
having Microsoft responsible for everything, but even then you're
likely to run out of road at some point. What kind of pitch do you
make to management then, or has management already attained "buzzword
bingo" by that stage?

> cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) writes:
> > 
> > And hey, if you're choosing a database module, you've got to have
> > already chosen a database -- MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite, etc. This is a
> > bigger choice than "how do I talk to it." The Python DB-API makes it
> > relatively easy to write code where the difference in talking to
> > different databases is only in your SQL, and not how you call it.
> 
> No, the DB-API doesn't help you write code at all.  It's the DB-API
> plus it's implementation that lets you write code.  The implementation
> doesn't come with Python, so you have to look elsewhere for it.

So, you're worried about compliance, support, maintenance and so on.
What about stuff like mxODBC? Do you think that there's a real market
opportunity for supported super-distributions of Python, like
ActivePython but with a broader scope?

["complex additional modules maintained by outsiders"]

> Brushing that off and saying "Spyce, CherryPy, etc. are all out there, just
> download them"

Well, that was a suggestion that things exist which potentially do
PHP-like stuff as easily as PHP makes it happen. I can't confirm that,
though, since I'm not really impressed by the PHP/ASP style of
development and not inclined to experiment in depth with those
technologies just to be able to tell someone what they should be using
when they'd get a much better understanding by looking into the matter
themselves.

> is only a matter of degrees better than responding to "Program XYZ is
> full of bugs and crashes all the time and the developers ignore
> everyone" with "that's no big deal, it's open source, you can fix the
> bugs yourself and then it will be fine".

As I'm sure most of us are aware, selecting technologies tends to
involve assessing various factors before dropping those technologies
into our solutions. If "program XYZ" really is that bad, then you
probably don't want to fix it yourself unless there really is nothing
else that comes close to solving the same problems. But at least some
of the Web frameworks can be regarded as being mature enough for real
world use, and the decision to choose one of them can't really be more
involved than that to adopt Python in the first place.

Now, I think you do have a point about the number of technologies and
packages that may need to be combined in order to make a solution, but
I think that this can be addressed by packaging combinations of such
technologies. You see some of this kind of thing with Zope and
derivatives (and even with Apache and PHP, by the way), and it'd be
nice to see the Web-SIG looking into this area, too.

Paul


From rainerd at eldwood.com  Mon Mar  1 03:02:25 2004
From: rainerd at eldwood.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:02:25 GMT
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>
	<pan.2004.03.01.05.57.25.838105@socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <l6C0c.8261$ko6.195399@attbi_s02>

Ed Murphy wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:12:48 +0000, Rainer Deyke wrote:
>> 2. Python programs are somewhat difficult to distribute compared to
>> programs in languages that compile to native code.
>
> How do you figure this one?  Something to do with statically linked
> libraries?  (I'm a Python newbie, but have been programming in general
> for almost 20 years, about half of that professionally.)

Basically you have to distribute the Python interpreter along with your
program, since you generally can't rely on the end user having (the correct
version of) Python installed.


-- 
Rainer Deyke - rainerd at eldwood.com - http://eldwood.com




From wallacethinmintr at eircom.net  Thu Mar 18 12:40:03 2004
From: wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell Wallace)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:40:03 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4059deac.74176280@news.eircom.net>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:15:57 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>How much real development (I don't mean archiving) do we do
>today on systems without appropriate tools? Very little. The issue
>isn't trying to develop on systems without appropriate tools, it's
>developers that won't use tools that help them work.

I'll happily use a fancy tool when I find one that doesn't suck. If
and when that ever happens, I'll be willing to start considering using
a language that requires such.

-- 
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Mar 29 02:42:07 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:42:07 +0100
Subject: monitoring a directory
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347E5@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

MG> Note that ReadDirectoryChangesW is available only 
MG> on the NT platforms (XP, 2000, NT4, NT3.51 SP3). 
MG> If you need portability to Win95/98/Me, you'll need
MG> to fall back to FindFirstChangeNotification as the 
MG> cookbook recipe uses.

Good point. I'm afraid that as we're up to Win2k+ here
almost across the board, I've tended to stop checking 
platform-specific stuff as closely as I used to when 
we were supporting large amounts of Win9x. Sorry.

I've added a page to my own site outlining the different
techniques, and I'll add something to it warning about
Windows version dependencies.

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/win32_how_do_i/watch_directory_for_chang
es.html

MG> Does win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW provide a way to tell if 
MG> it's availableor not?

I'm not in a position to test at the moment, but as far as I
recall the pywin32 code in general does do a check for whether
a function is available before it builds it in. Haven't checked.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
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From theller at python.net  Wed Mar  3 02:32:52 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:32:52 +0100
Subject: NT service (setting Description string)
References: <jJmdnfpaDewojtjdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <oereidwb.fsf@python.net>

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> writes:

> Anybody know what variable I need to define in my
> class to set the long description that shows up
> in the Services control panel applet?
>
> _svc_name_         holds the short name
> _svc_display_name_ holds the long name
> _svc_?????_        holds the description

There isn't any yet.  Apparently you have to call the win32 api
ChangeServiceConfig2() (but maybe it can also be done with the wmi
module).

Thomas




From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 14 11:11:55 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:11:55 -0000
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <89WdnQhnm6Gkwdfd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>
	<mailman.23.1079269830.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105912baareej68@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.23.1079269830.745.python-list at python.org>,
Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>"Robert" wrote:
>
>> Is the WCK still an active project?
>
>yes.  wck 1.0 for tkinter was released in december 2003, and
>should be considered as a stable release.
			.
			.
			.
For those reading along at home, I'll provide a few words of 
explanation:  "The Widget Construction Kit (WCK) is an extension
API that allows you to implement all sorts of custom widgets, in
pure Python."  <URL: http://effbot.org/zone/wck.htm >

I'd say the WCK not only allows, but even *encourages*, widget
customization.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From billb at isp.net.au  Mon Mar 29 22:14:39 2004
From: billb at isp.net.au (Bill)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 03:14:39 GMT
Subject: CSV to Browser Bookmark file
Message-ID: <Xns94BC88066E562billbispnetau@218.214.224.6>

I currently have all of my Bookmarks under WinXP in a PIM, which will allow 
me to export them as a CSV file 
( fields are "Category,Page-Title,URL,Comments - all fields of no fixed 
length).

Is there a program/script that will output the info from csv to a browser 
bookmark file - Any browser as I want to move the bookmarks from Windows to   
Linux - unfortunately the PIM wont run under Wine in Linux and I am not a 
programmer so I have no idea how to convert the file.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bill


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Mar  7 08:41:20 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:41:20 +0100
Subject: attachment
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403070500.41935620@posting.google.com>
References: <f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9@posting.google.com>
	<f046efac.0403060045.7ae84d33@posting.google.com>
	<4049ad99$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<f046efac.0403070500.41935620@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404b2680$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:

> User can submit any attachment and can view all the attachments
> submitted by other users.
> Attachment contents can be anything.
> So where should I store the attachment 1)In database 2)In a file on
> server

You give too little information to provide a conclusive answer.

However,

Putting stuff in a database can be complicated (BLOBs and stuff)
but usually takes care of concurrency control (i.e. accessing the
data by multiple users at the same time; everyone should only
see THEIR file(s)).

Storing stuff in the filesystem is by far the easiest. You don't
have to set up and access a database. But you DO have to make sure
that each file is uniquely named (you don't want me to overwrite
your 'curriculum.doc' now do you) and probably have to do
some concurrency control yourself.
Also you have to think of a way to identify which files belong
to which user, and make sure that user A cannot access user B's files.

--Irmen



From peter at semantico.com  Fri Mar 26 11:42:54 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000
Subject: A 'Python like' language
Message-ID: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like' 
language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html

Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what 
makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define 
scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed 
from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.


From samsnead at sammy.com  Sat Mar 20 16:25:09 2004
From: samsnead at sammy.com (Sam Snead)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:25:09 -0500
Subject: Time of Day
Message-ID: <MPG.1ac680c0975acc8e989685@news.rockbridge.net>

Hello,

Is there a formula/function I can use to convert the Unix time stamp to 
a time of day?

Thanks,

Sam


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Mar 12 07:50:19 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:50:19 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c2sbkd$ik7$2@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Maas schrieb:
> class doesTypeChecking:
 >     def __init__self():

Correction:
     def __init__(self):

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 01:47:31 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 22:47:31 -0800
Subject: Equality and identity
References: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403302247.2f49f047@posting.google.com>

Marius Bernklev <mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message news:<3cfvfkmi337.fsf at nelja.ifi.uio.no>...
> In python, it seems like immutable objects are equal under both
> equality and identity:
> 
> >>> 5 == 5
>  True
> >>> 5 is 5
>  True
> >>> "hei" == "hei"
>  True
> >>> "hei" is "hei"
> True
> 

It only seems that way.  Note:
>>> a = 5
>>> b = 5
>>> 100 is 100
True
>>> #but:
>>> a = 100
>>> b = 100
>>> a is b
False
>>> #but also!:
>>> a = 100;b = 100
>>> a is b
True
>>> # for strings:
>>> a = 'hello'
>>> b = 'hello'
>>> a is b
True
>>> a = 'hello world'
>>> b = 'hello world'
>>> a is b
False
>>> a = 'hello world';b = 'hello world'
>>> a is b
True

As was pointed out, this is implementation dependant.   Our favourite
implementation interns small integers and simple strings (and
apparently also equivalent strings and integers created on the same
line(?)), for optimisation purposes.  These are really exceptional.  
You shouldn't find this behaviour in defined classes for instance. 
The behaviour of tuples in this regard as much more 'normal.'


From Me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 22 11:27:39 2004
From: Me at privacy.net (Gernot)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:27:39 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<405ef463.40371149@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <c3n4hb$293evk$1@ID-37212.news.uni-berlin.de>

Program a game - it's fun for a 13year old. And games are made with GLBasic
from GLBasic.com.
qed.

Gernot Frisch.


"Russell Wallace" <wallacethinmintr at eircom.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:405ef463.40371149 at news.eircom.net...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:03:09 GMT, "Bootstrap Bill"
> <wrcousert at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I was 15 when I got my first computer, a 4k TRS-80 Model I with Level I
> >BASIC, cassette tape for storage. It was several years before I could
afford
> >a system with a floppy drive, let alone a hard drive.. I spent nearly all
my
> >free time for months teaching myself BASIC programing, mostly trial and
> >error. The book that came with my Model I was a great introduction to
> >programming.
>
> Those were the days ^.^
>
> >My 13 year old niece wants to learn programming. What's the best
> >introductory language for her?
>
> I'd recommend Python as a good introductory language - easy,
> intuitive, but definitely not dumbed down.
>
> -- 
> "Sore wa himitsu desu."
> To reply by email, remove
> the small snack from address.
> http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Mar  6 17:26:20 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Mar 2004 22:26:20 +0000
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
	<2ae25c6b.0403021100.400af290@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87brn9d33n.fsf@pobox.com>

paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) writes:

> paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590 at posting.google.com>...
[...]
> > I wondered if there are any more recent interviews/articles from ESR
> > on his scripting language tools. I would be interested to know if he
> > still usesPython? Did he try any other "scripting" languages such as
> > Ruby or Lua?
[...]
> Oh, no! I sent the above, then found the right thing to search for in
> Google and came up with this interview from January:
>   http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3306511
> 
> It seems ESR is still a Pythoneer, and I have another important
> article to add to my trove.
[...]

If you come to the Python UK conference (part of the ACCU Spring
conference), you may even meet him in person.  He's a keynote speaker
in the Open Source event that's also taking place at the ACCU
conference, but I imagine he'll be mingling with Pythonistas too.

https://www.accu.org/conference/

(the site is due for a significant revamp next week, so check back for
more details on the Python conference and Open Source forum)


John


From eric at zomething.com  Tue Mar  9 23:25:29 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:25:29 -0800
Subject: How to open a file, read from it,
	and retrieve information from it?
Message-ID: <20040309202529.1304261957.eric@zomething.com>

bugsyboy9 at yahoo.com described:

> >From a GUI interface, a user needs to request a string to be searched
> from a file and bring the string back, if it is in the file, and
> display it in a different field within the same GUI.  Basically, I
> need to be able to open a file, parse its contents, and bring the
> requested information back and display it in a GUI window.


The fun is in the doing, but here are some links you might want to explore:

File objects: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/bltin-file-objects.html
Tkinter GUI: http://www.pythonware.com/library/an-introduction-to-tkinter.htm
Regular expressions: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-re.html


here's how easy it can be (to do something easy) in Python:

IDLE 1.0      
>>> from easygui import *
>>> fname=fileopenbox()  #opens a file dialog  and returns a selected file name
>>> fl=file(fname,'r') #opens the file for reading
>>> fString=fl.read() #reads the file into a string
>>> pos=fString.find("contract") #finds the first position of the string "contract" in the file string
>>> pos
273

If you start playing with it, you'll start enjoying it, I say.

Try, do, Google, repeat.


Eric Pederson
Pythonista since... February 2004!






From peufeu at free.fr  Mon Mar 29 04:02:38 2004
From: peufeu at free.fr (PF)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:02:38 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opr5l8qowyb723ru@news.free.fr>



	It all boils down to how much space your keys take.
	When you look for dupes, you must hold only the keys in memory, not the 
data (it'll be a lot faster this way).

	I'd say create a bsddb with btree sort to hold all your keys. Should take 
about 20 minutues to fill it. Then scan it in sorted key order, and 
duplciates will appear next to each other.


From eric at zomething.com  Mon Mar 15 23:52:11 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:52:11 -0800
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
Message-ID: <20040315205211.286098248.eric@zomething.com>


benoit wrote

> I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
> Are there libraries for this ?

I'd be interested to hear if there are some good Python libraries which work with the ".xls" file format.  Python does have CSV, if you can achieve what you want by exporting the data in comma separated format and then manipulating it.  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-csv.html

Also, there is pyXLWriter (though I haven't tried it): 
http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=pyXLWriter&version=0.3a1

I have considered that there must be great Java libraries for MS Office within the OpenOffice.org suite.  It would be sweet to be able to wrap some algorithms from OOo source in Python, but I am not sure of the licensing, nor quite where in that source to find the treasure.

the .xls=>XML=>PDF (etc.) would be nice to have around...




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 24 01:00:57 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:00:57 +1100
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040324060057.GA31881@frobozz>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:04:44PM -0800, Michele Simionato wrote:
> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > 
> > Okay, but can you explain the mechanism or point me to the original post?  I
> > can't find it on Google (probably too recent).  Multimethod(a,b)() won't
> > know that each call is for __mul__ will it (maybe it will peek at the
> > func_name attribute)?  From what you posted, all I saw was multiple
> > definitions of __mul__.  Only the last one will be present as a method in
> > the class's definition.
> > 
> > Skip
> 
> Please take what I posted just as an idea (it is not even my idea!), not as 
> an implementation proposal.
> I don't have an implementation, but I am pretty much convinced that it is
> possible and not that hard. 
> I am not suggesting that we put multimethods in Python 2.4. 
> I am just noticing that the notation could be used to denote 
> multimethods too, as Ville Vainio suggested (sorry for the mispelling,
> Ville!).
> 
> Just to support your point that the decorator idea is a Pandora box, and 
> we can extract anything from it ;)

But the decorator syntax doesn't help with this case at all.

You *could* hack up multimethods today, though, by abusing metaclasses:

class Foo:
    ...
    class __mul__(multimethod):
        def Matrix(self, other):
            ...
        def Vector(self, other):
            ...

The definition of multimethod would be something like this:

class _multimethod(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, d):
        if d.get('__metaclass__') == _multimethod:
            return super(_multimethod, cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, d)
        else:
            def multi(self, *args):
                try:
                    meth = d['_'.join([arg.__class__.__name__ for arg in args])]
                except KeyError:
                    raise TypeError, 'No multimethod for type(s) %r' % map(type, args)
                else:
                    return meth(self, *args)
            return multi

class multimethod:
    __metaclass__ = _multimethod

This is only very lightly tested.  Extending this to cope with subclasses of
types, etc, is left as an exercise for the reader.

FWIW, here is what I tested it with:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    class C:
        class __mul__(multimethod):
            def int(self, other):
                return 'Integer multipication!'
            def C(self, other):
                return 'Selfness squared!'

        class test(multimethod):
            def int_str(self, i, s):
                return 'Testing %r, %r' % (i, s)
    c = C()
    print c * 1
    print c * c
    try:
        print c * "x"
    except TypeError, e:
        print e.args[0]

    print c.test(2, 'two')
    try:
        print c.test('x', 'y')
    except TypeError, e:
        print e.args[0]

-Andrew.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 16:07:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:07:31 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nv2dna8CidII8crdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote 
> 
> 
>>>>>x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
>>>>>y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
>>>>>x is y
>>
>> True
>>
>>>>>x = 'a b'
>>>>>y = 'a b'
>>>>>x is y
>>
>> False
> 
> 
> Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is unspecified
> and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.

Absolutely not!  "is" does what it does, and the definition of what it 
does is very explicit.  It checks *identity*, not equality.  In both 
examples above, the code is semantically meaningless because you are 
checking identity on two things which you just created at the command 
line, out of thin air.  They may or may not be identical, but whether 
they are or not has no importance.

I'm not being very clear, but what I mean is that "is" should be used 
when *identity* is important to you.  For example, you have a particular 
object and you want to check whether a method call returns that 
particular object, perhaps as a "sentinel" value.  "is" is what you want 
here, because you are checking whether *that specific object* is being 
returned, not whether the returned item equals that object in value.

There are very good (and correct) times to use "is", but the trivial 
examples above aren't them...

-Peter


From no at spam.invalid  Wed Mar 10 16:04:07 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:04:07 -0800
Subject: question: numarray c extension error handling?
Message-ID: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

I'm writing a C extension for numarray and am puzzled about the idiom 
for error handling.

The documentation seems to say one should always decref an array after 
calling  NA_InputArray, etc., to convert numarray args to C arrays. 

However, the example and also the numarray code suggests that it's OK to 
return early via (for example) PyErr_Format without doing the DECREF. 
For example, I have appended a very abbreviated version of the sample 
code.

Comments? I'll plow ahead and follow the example (i.e. with early 
return) but I was wondering if anyone knew why this was OK. Perhaps I 
should put in a request to the numarray project for a clarification in 
the documentation.

-- Russell

static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject   *okernel,...;
    PyArrayObject *kernel...;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...))
        return PyErr_Format(_convolveError, 
                    "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");

    /* Align, Byteswap, Contiguous, Typeconvert */
    kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
...
    if (!kernel...)
        return PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
                 "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
...
    Py_XDECREF(kernel);
...
}

The relevant section of the docs (section 12.3 High-level API):

The return value of each function (NA_InputArray, NA_OutputArray, or 
NA_IoArray) is either a reference to the original numarray object, or a 
reference to a temporary numarray. Following execution of the C-code in 
the extension function body this pointer should *always* be DECREFed.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 18:13:36 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:13:36 +0100
Subject: Create static method dynamically
References: <c2qnop$ung$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c2qrr0$r2v$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Salvatore wrote:

> def hello():
>      print "hello"

> Is there a way of making 'hello' a
> static method of 'myClass ?

>>> class Test:
...     def addStaticMethod(name, func):
...             setattr(Test, name, staticmethod(func))
...     addStaticMethod = staticmethod(addStaticMethod)
...
>>> def hello(): print "hello"
...
>>> t = Test()
>>> t.addStaticMethod("hello", hello)
>>> t.hello()
hello
>>>

Even simpler, if you know the method name beforehand:

>>> Test.world = staticmethod(hello)
>>> t.world()
hello

Peter


From franga at shentel.net  Wed Mar 24 18:42:04 2004
From: franga at shentel.net (Francis Avila)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:42:04 -0500
Subject: State of Python scripting on Mac OS X?
Message-ID: <BC8786FC.F36%franga@shentel.net>

I just got a Mac, and I want to script it using Python.  (I tried a few
things with AppleScript, but I swear it's like COBOL++, and the data types
are very cumbersome to use.) Since Apple has Python out of the box, I
thought it would support scripting OOTB too, but apparently not.  Python
needs an OSA scripting component to be an OSA-compliant language.  I'm not
entirely clear on what that means, though, because OSA seems to sometimes
refer to an API, sometimes to an IPC, and sometimes to a "component".

Searching around I get old and/or conflicting reports on what constitutes
OSA support, whether there's a package that gives Python such support, where
I can get it, and how I can make the OS recognize it.  For example, I can't
get an answer to a question as simple as how one can select Python in the
Script Editor, and what relation this has to OSA.  I can't seem to find a
nice architectural overview of OSA.  Or, would I be able to use the Python
standard library, or only the events that other Applications provide? And so
on.

The best I can seem to find now is PyObjC, which is lower-level than what I
want. Other things I turn up (the AppScripting package or the MacPython IDE)
seem to provide some sort of interface to OSA, but not an OSA component
itself.  Or at least that's what they seem to be claiming.  (In any case,
these never show up in script editor as an "OSA".)

So I guess I'm asking if anyone knowledgeable can point me in the right
direction or tell me the current state of Python for AppleScript-ing.  If
there's a project that's building a "complete" OSA scripting component for
Python, I might be interested in participating.
-- 
Francis Avila



From velomanhere at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 21 11:22:11 2004
From: velomanhere at hotmail.com (Velomanhere)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 08:22:11 -0800
Subject: Newbie Help with IMAPLIB Module
Message-ID: <3e8ef6f.0403210822.71344764@posting.google.com>

I am just learning Python and need some assistance with the IMAPLIB
module.

I am trying to check whether there are any unread messages in the
mailbox of the IMAP server.  I have found the following object
imap.recent() which returns a tuple with the number of mesages that
haven't been checked.

However, this isn't exactly what I want.  The definition of the
"RECENT" flag in IMAP only returns a number if no other program has
checked the mailbox.  From the RFC: "This session is the first session
to have been notified about this message; subsequent sessions will not
see \Recent set for this message."

Does anyone know how I can check if \Seen flag is *not* true on any
messages in the mailbox and then return how many message are not
tagged as /Seen

Here is what I have so far:

import imaplib

def imapcheck():
    """Check IMAP server for messages"""
    newmessages = ()

    imap=imaplib.IMAP4("server.domain.com")
    imap.login("username", "password")

    newmessages = imap.recent()

    if [None] not in newmessages:
        print "You have new messages"


def main():

    imapcheck()


From tismer at stackless.com  Tue Mar 30 10:37:31 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:37:31 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F89@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F89@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <4069943B.6010900@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

...

>>[discussion of hashing snipped]
> 
> 
> Thanks again. Really, thanks!
> 
> However, I think you're letting the arrow fly before you've seen the
> target.

Oops :-)
This was a late-night session, then I tend to shoot
early :-)

> I understand hashing and making a bucket for each possible first
> character (I should have read your code more thoroughly). That is a fine
> technique, and it was already on my short list of workarounds.> However,
> your _complete_ solution isn't feasible for my dataset, because I'm
> comparing some fields within each record, not entire records.

Sure, that's why I have a file-like object as parameter,
and you are supposed to do you preprocessing and create
the string that should represent the interesting part of
a record. I didn't plan to code that for you, but
expected you would want to provide your function and
use stuff at your convenience.

> For
> example, with rows like:
> 
> "Michael","Kemperson","26002","me at aol.com","64.12.104.18"
> "Ryan","Thomas","46723","myfriend at yahoo.com","209.244.21.23"
> "Vicki","Thomas","46723","myfriend at yahoo.com","209.244.21.23"
> "Shanuana","Hedlund","10415","andi at yahoo.com","122.150.184.175"
> 
> ...I need to keep Ryan and dump Vicki, based on shared email and IP, but
> *not* on the other fields. If Vicki had the same email but a different
> IP, don't drop that record, but blank out the 2nd phone number. In
> addition, most but not all files have phone numbers, which get the same
> treatment. That's why I said I have three dicts/indexes.

That's bad, of course, since you were asking how to find duplicates
in database records, which means for me, that a single processing
step is possible which calculates the unique information from
the current record, only.

If you actually need grouping and decisions based upon that,
the apporach doesn't work, since you need to hold all the information
to further process it.
In this case, an external sorting process might make sense,
with the record fields rearranged with email and IP going first,
then you can probably do a sequential process over the data.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From dave at nullcube.com  Sun Mar 28 06:59:35 2004
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:59:35 +1000
Subject: pysqlite
Message-ID: <20040328115935.GA17901@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

hi all,

I need to be able to flash a database with the sql def'ns I have, and it
works if I pipe my file into sqlite, but when I execute the same data as
a giant string I get no error, but the database isn't flashed.

anyone have any ideas ? Ive tried stripping out newlines, all whitespace
reduced to single spaces etc etc ...

-- 
Dave Harrison
Nullcube
dave at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com



From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 10:33:15 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 07:33:15 -0800
Subject: python & mysql probelm
References: <mailman.460.1080336449.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403270733.1e1c7935@posting.google.com>

Hi
Thanks FuManChu ,you solved the problem
Thanks,
James


From python at apocalyptech.com  Tue Mar  9 09:42:37 2004
From: python at apocalyptech.com (CJ Kucera)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:42:37 -0600
Subject: optparse variable parsing?
In-Reply-To: <404DD3C0.8050207@python.org>
References: <20040308232639.GB11572@unisrv.net> <404DD3C0.8050207@python.org>
Message-ID: <20040309144237.GB11755@unisrv.net>

David Goodger wrote:
> An "option argument".  The answer is no, optparse doesn't support
> optional option arguments.  The main reason is that it makes a command
> like "cmd -abc" impossible to parse reliably: is it equivalent to
> "cmd -a bc" or to "cmd -a -b -c"?  In the Python tradition, optparse
> chooses not to guess.

Yeah, true, there is a measure of ambiguity there.  In that case I
suppose I'd prefer to just sort of "require" the dashes to signify
options, if there's a question as to what's an option and what's
not, but whatever...

> I would suggest that you should have two different options here, a
> simple switch and an option which expects/requires an argument.
> That's easier to document as well.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing, it's just a bit tight because
right now the program already accepts fourteen options, and finding
options that make sense while keeping them down to one-letter
arguments (don't like having to have more than one letter per arg)
can get a bit challenging.  :)

Well, thanks for the confirmation!

-CJ

-- 
WOW: Kakistocracy        |  "The ships hung in the sky in much the same
apocalyptech.com/wow     |    way that bricks don't." - Douglas Adams,
python at apocalyptech.com  |     _The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_



From tismer at stackless.com  Fri Mar  5 20:02:29 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 02:02:29 +0100
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <c2ajnq$o48$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <Law11-F108dhVtRRM4c0002bf6d@hotmail.com>
	<c2ajnq$o48$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40492325.4080709@stackless.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

...

> Besides trying Hansen's idea of popen instead of systen() (or vice versa),
> 3 ideas:
> 
> 1. Write minimal Perl program to make call, and call that from Python ;-)

Haahaahaa good joke. More of this, please :)

> 2. Rewrite Java program to input long list from file instead of command
> line, if such is possible (I have no idea) and if you can write Java or get
> someone who does (no idea of that either).

Constructive approach, although...

> 3. Read win perl source to determine what system calls it is using and then
> use Hammond's PyWin extensions to do same from Python.

Well, I never claimed that Python is always better than Perl.
There are cases where Perl is really better than Python.
This might be such a case, and I don't mind.
There are many cases where Fortran is better than Python,
which don't turn me into a Fortran user.

Years ago I claimed:
Python is the second best computer language in the world.
The best has just to be developed.

Meanwhile I know what the best will be.
No need to tell everybody that this will be PyPy.
Same language, but at machine speed, and with almost no
dependency of clumsy system libraries.

next-time-we'll-do-that-with-perl - ly y'rs -- chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca  Tue Mar  9 14:26:57 2004
From: biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca (biner)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 11:26:57 -0800
Subject: getting size of gif
Message-ID: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

  I would like to know if there is a module out there to help me get
the size of a gif image. The idea is to verify that the size is not
greater than a certain value before forcing it toward a given
dimension in a web page.

  Also, is there any way to know which function is used if we use two
module that define the same function with the same name and arguments.
E.g. the join function is present in the string module and the os.path
module with string as input and output. Is there a way to force Python
to tell me of the possible conflict?

Thanks in advance.

Ciao!
Sebastien Biner.
biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Fri Mar  5 13:48:24 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:48:24 +0100
Subject: How to find size of file?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
References: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
Message-ID: <c2ai0g$1t4u$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Walter Huf a ?crit :

> Hi, I'm the same one with the CGI download problem. This time, however, I 
> want to send the client the size of the file that will be downloaded. How 
> would I find the size of the file, so I can include that in the headers? 
> 
> --Walter Huf--
> hufman at cobalty.com
> http://hufman.cobalty.com
> 
> 
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

def sizeOf(f):
	f.seek(0,2)
	return f.tell()



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 23:39:10 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:39:10 -0600
Subject: python bnf somewhere?
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0403052021.6e1a07f1@posting.google.com>
References: <a8623416.0403052021.6e1a07f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16457.21998.68334.325512@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Corey> Hey everyone, sorry to bug people, but I remember seeing a nice
    Corey> complete BNF for python somewhere in the documentation but I
    Corey> can't for the life of me find it anymore.  Anyone have a link?

There are references all over the language reference (everywhere a BNF
productions is shown) to

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt

This is probably what you were thinking of.

Skip



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar 17 17:24:31 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:24:31 GMT
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
References: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<QX36c.26341$%06.21748@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc5hk0v.rtr.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-03-17, Tina <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote:
> Are there any good pages for RPG related items in Python? Everything I've
> seen so far has been first-person shooter type stuff. And coming from a
> BASIC background, I'm falling back on some of that coding style when I know
> there's a better way.

    Might want to look into the OpenRPG project.  It is a client/server
application that allows people to play RPGs over the internet.  It provides
the framework for characters, rules, maps, chatting, die rolls and so on.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From bob at redivi.com  Fri Mar  5 18:21:04 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:21:04 -0500
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
In-Reply-To: <16457.1332.559268.412335@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
	<2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>
	<16457.1332.559268.412335@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <C6008C22-6EFB-11D8-90B9-000A95686CD8@redivi.com>

On Mar 5, 2004, at 5:54 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>>> First: It is not possible. Let me cite some sentences from shred(1):
>>>
>>> CAUTION: Note that shred relies on a very important assumption: that
>>> the filesystem overwrites data in place.  This is the traditional way
>>> to do things, but many modern filesystem designs do not satisfy this
>>> assumption.
>
>     Bob> Somewhat OT, Mac OS X 10.3 is one of the operating systems 
> where
>     Bob> this assumption is false.  Files smaller than a certain size 
> get
>     Bob> automatically moved around on the disk when it makes sense to 
> do so
>     Bob> in order to reduce fragmentation.
>
> I'm not sure I understand how that can work.  Suppose I have multiple 
> (hard)
> links to a small file named "small".  If the OS moves it around to 
> reduce
> fragmentation (implying it will have a different inode next time it's
> opened) how does it efficiently track down and change all inode 
> references
> to it?  In theory it could keep a cache mapping inode numbers back to 
> the
> directories which reference them, but that could consume a fairly large
> chunk of memory to maintain.

I can't speak to what it does exactly, I'm no HFS+ or xnu expert, but I 
know it only applies to files under 20mb on journaled HFS+ file 
systems... I believe that HFS+ has a level of indirection between the 
file's "inode" (HFS+ probably calls it something else) and the set of 
blocks it is represented with on disk, so I don't believe that moving 
the blocks around really has anything to do with hard links or creating 
a new inode.

You can look for yourself if you're particularly interested.. it's part 
of the APSL licensed Darwin 7.x kernel (xnu):

( should be mountable by WebDAV )
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.3.2/xnu-517.3.7/bsd/hfs/

files of interest would be:
hfs_hotfiles.c
hfs_readwrite.c
hfs_vnops.c

In particular, you would be interested in the hfs_relocate function in 
hfs_readwrite.c.

-bob




From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Mar 12 04:59:50 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:59:50 +0100
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0403112149.1b3d0e78@posting.google.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<c718a6cf.0403112149.1b3d0e78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405189fc$0$152$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:

> That is what Python is missing is an quality IDE that is cross
> platform. All the ones out now suck when compared to something like
> IDEA or Together.
> 
> anyone that thinks about following up this post with anything about vi
> or emacs can just stop right now and go back to their hole.

An IDE isn't worth much in many use cases. I see the reason in it when 
developing gui apps. But for my work I honestly don't see any use for it.

Basically a good tabbed editor suits my needs.

The only two things I really miss is:

1) A good refactoring tool. Search and replace can be a bit hit'n miss 
sometime.

2) A context aware class browser, that would show the classes with the 
methods & defined attributes they have in the current context. So that I 
could do a little less grep'ing and manual backtracking of ancestor objects.

So maybe I *do* ned a good IDE anyway :-)


regards Max M


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 12:14:02 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 01:14:02 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3ki5j$28tkdb$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Anyway, we can at least count on the fact that a .pyc compiled
by a particular Python version (say, Python 2.1.1) on one platform
(say, Mac), will run on another platform (say, Solaris) as long
as the interpreter has the same minor version (say, Python 2.1.0).

uh... right?


From noah at noah.org  Fri Mar 19 20:33:24 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 17:33:24 -0800
Subject: Select on Win XP
References: <da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403191733.44d89f50@posting.google.com>

shifflett at nps.navy.mil (D. Shifflett) wrote in message news:<da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
> I am trying to run a Python program
> on my Win XP box, that I brought over from a Linux box.
>...
> select() doesn't return until I have sent a packet
> even though I am using a short timeout (1 second)
> 
>         ilist = []
>         ilist.append(my_sock)
>         print "readerthread - my_sock %d" % my_sock.fileno()
>         while not self._stopevent.isSet():
> 
>             print "about to select"
>             il,ol,el = select(ilist,[],[],1)

One thing you might try this for your ilist:
        ilist.append (my_sock.fileno())

In theory it shouldn't matter.
The socket docs say that socket.fileno() is useful for working with select.
It's confusing since docs for select.select() say you can pass in a list
of an objects supporting fileno() or you can pass integer filedescriptors, so 
why would socket.fileno() says it's useful for working with select.select()? 
I don't know, but comeing from a C background using select, I would eliminate
any confusion and just use select with an integer list. 

Let me know if that helps at all.

Yours,
Noah


From rick_muller at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 11:09:11 2004
From: rick_muller at yahoo.com (Rick Muller)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 08:09:11 -0800
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<4056c9c5$0$4143$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <5eb8fb88.0403160809.177eeb8@posting.google.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message > 
> VPython [1] seems to combine all requirements, OpenGl and NumPy
> integration, easy to install and use, and at least in my case it makes
> one very enthusiastic about 3-d programming in Python. 
> 

I'm a long-time fan of VPython, but I didn't think it provided
widgets. Can I use some widget set to make buttons to control
applications?


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 16:55:06 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:55:06 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <donn-959027.13550629032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g at speakeasy.net>,
 "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com> wrote:
...
> For reasons not clear to me, I get the error:
>       bad interpreter: No such file or directory
> when I include the path to the python interperter. I've tried a number of
> approaches:
>   #!python
>   #!/usr/bin/python
>   #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> (I've got the x bit set on the test files, so it's not a permissions
> problem. ) This, I'm guessing, isn't a python problem, and would seem to be
> my roadblock. I've done some preliminary searches for an answer, but nothing
> has panned out so far; if anyone has any ideas...

The first one wouldn't work for sure.  Second one works if python
is in /usr/bin, third one works if python is in some directory in
PATH and env is in /usr/bin.  Assuming your own shell is bash,
try "type python" and "type env" to see where those programs are.

[re zombie processes]
> I've read other posts (many yours, I think :) indicating something like
> this, but I confess I don't understand the relationship between waitpid()
> and spawnv(), how I would use the former with the latter.

spawnv returns a process ID, if you use os.P_NOWAIT.  It returns
the process exit status if you use os.P_WAIT.  If you look at the
code, in os.py, you will see that this second variation is essentially
implemented by applying waitpid() to the first.

   Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From Petri_member at newsguy.com  Sat Mar 27 19:47:09 2004
From: Petri_member at newsguy.com (Petri)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 16:47:09 -0800
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <c457ad029rc@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <40652B0D.7C313F77 at doe.carleton.ca>, Fred Ma says...
> One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
> files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
> hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
> to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
> The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
> have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.

The translator, is it doing the Verilog stuff you mention later in the thread?
Why not check if you can't replace the translator altogether with an existing
Perl module:
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=verilog&mode=all

Well, I know nothing about your problem area, but it's a tip in case you hadn't
thought about checking CPAN.


Petri



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Mar 31 16:19:55 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 21:19:55 GMT
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
References: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4fclq$2h7p9t$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Markus Franz <mf at orase.com> wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> How can I grab websites with a command-line python script? I want to start
> the script like this:
> 
> ./script.py ---xxx--- http://www.address1.com http://www.address2.com
> http://www.address3.com
> 
> The script should load these 3 websites (or more if specified) in parallel

In parallel?  Hmm... play around with
    lynx -dump http://... > a1 &
    lynx -dump http://... > a2 &
    lynx -dump http://... > a3 &
    sleep 15
    kill %1 %2 %3
    for i in a1 a2 a3; do
	cat $i
	echo ---xxx---
    done
    rm a1 a2 a3

In serial, the code becomes
    for i in http://... http://...  http://... ; do
	lynx -connect_timeout=15 -dump $i 
	echo ---xxx---
    done

> (may be processes? threads?) and show their contents seperated by ---xxx---.
> The whole output should be print on the command-line. Each website should
> only have 15 seconds to return the contents (maximum) in order to avoid a
> never-ending script.
> 
> How can I do this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Yours sincerely
> 
> Markus Franz
> 
> 

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com  Mon Mar 29 10:20:10 2004
From: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com (Lindstrom Greg - glinds)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:20:10 -0600
Subject: Socket Help
Message-ID: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D16A95063@conmsx03.corp.acxiom.net>

Hello-

I have a python routine (Python 2.2.3 on Windows 2000 "Professional") using
a socket connection.  Problem is, the backend service I'm connecting to will
hang every so often and the socket will simply wait for a response which
will never come.  I'm thinking of putting in a routine to check the socket's
status, which now brings in threading.  Before I go to the trouble I thought
I'd ask if there is a simple way to verify my socket is still communicating.
It's running about 200 transactions per second...if I put in the threaded
timer I'd have it take a look every few seconds to see if the
"TotalRecordsProcessed" counter has been incremented.

 

Your constructive thoughts are requested.

 

Thanks!

--greg



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named above, and may be legally privileged.
If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
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If you have received this communication in error,
please re-send this communication to the sender and
delete the original message or any copy of it from your
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From mghsm at hotpop.com  Sat Mar 13 10:44:25 2004
From: mghsm at hotpop.com (Richie Adler)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:44:25 -0300
Subject: Any known bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card deck?
Message-ID: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>

Does anyone know of a bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card 
deck? I'm planning to create a new cardgame which requires this kind of 
deck (prototyping in Python and possible final development in Delphi; 
flames about my tool choices will be gently dropped into the bit bucket)

I'd be very thankful about any information regarding this matter.

-- 
o-=< Richie Adler >=-o

UnROT13 e-mail address to write directly to me


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 29 14:56:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:56:09 +0200
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
References: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <c49v0p$l1m$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Torsten Mohr wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> i'd like to use 64 Bit Integer values in Python,
> can anybody give me a hint on what are the limits
> in Python?
> 
> Can i use signed and unsigned 64 Bit Integers?
> 
> 
> Thanks for hints,
> Torsten.

>>> 10**100
10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L

As for signed integers, the sky's the limit :-)

Peter


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 16 20:47:37 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:47:37 -0500
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnk4qsoi6rq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote:

> Still trying to understand "=="... It appears as if two equal objects
> can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them:
>
>   >>> l=[1]
>   >>> s=l
>   >>> l.append(s)

You're building a cyclic list: l contains a reference to itself.
General advice: don't do that unless you know what you're doing.

>   >>> w=[1]
>   >>> r=[1,w]
>   >>> w.append(r)
>   >>> s
>   [1, [...]]
>   >>> w
>   [1, [1, [...]]]
>   >>> s==w
>   True
>
> Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.

Element-by-element, they're equal, yes.

>   >>> s[0]=2
>   >>> w[0]=2
>   >>> s==w
>   False
>
> All of a sudden they have become unequal.

That's b/c s originally looked like this if we expand out the
recursion a few more levels:
[1, [1, [1, [1, [...]]]]]
where each sub-list is also s.

w also looks like
[1, [1, [1, [1, [...]]]]]
where the *second* sub-list is w.

Set the first elements to 2:

s is now:
[2, [2, [2, [2, ...]]]]
w is now:
[2, [1, [2, [1, ...]]]]

See? The second sub-list of w is not w, so it wasn't changed.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Wed Mar 10 06:14:09 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:14:09 +0100
Subject: trap attributeError from inside a dict ?
References: <404ed174$0$307$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<c2mp83$b4l$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <404ef86f$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de news:
c2mp83$b4l$02$1 at news.t-online.com...

> Personally, I would put custom objects into a normal dictionary instead of
> playing one of these tricks.

you convince me thanks i will do it this way,

best regards




From matt.gerrans at hp.com  Tue Mar 23 20:02:20 2004
From: matt.gerrans at hp.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:02:20 GMT
Subject: Human validation with an image
References: <2ca51434.0402181235.460befe3@posting.google.com>
	<c10mh0$kfr$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<JH5Zb.27731$Ft6.23073@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <w658c.1533$BZ1.270@news.cpqcorp.net>

"Dennis Reinhardt" wrote:
> > (E.g. "What color is the sky?"
>
>     black - night time
>     white - cloudy day
>     red - http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/7495641.htm
>     blue - clear day

Reminds me of a conversation with my two-year-old:

Me: "What color is that red fish?"
Her: "Blue!"




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 23:08:25 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 20:08:25 -0800
Subject: name of 'name'
References: <W5G7c.878632$ts4.740941@pd7tw3no>
	<ouOdneoz7fGL-8LdRVn_iw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403232008.307dbf54@posting.google.com>

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message news:<ouOdneoz7fGL-8LdRVn_iw at comcast.com>...
> Not exactly sure I understand the question, but here
> goes:
> 
> If you are talking about a class, you can get the
> classname from :
> 
> self.__class__.__name__
> 
> Hope info helps.
> 
> -Larry
> 

Nope, that would give the name of the class of the instance, whereas
her code retrieves the name of the instance itself.  Eg.

>>> name = lambda x: [y for y in globals().keys() if
globals()[y]==x][0]
>>> foo = 5
>>> bar = 'hello'
>>> baz = [foo, bar]
>>> baz[0].__class__.__name__
'int'
>>> name(baz[0])
'foo'
>>>


From alessandro at sephiroth.it  Fri Mar 26 15:05:19 2004
From: alessandro at sephiroth.it (Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:05:19 GMT
Subject: extract parameters from a WSDL
Message-ID: <3209c.106332$z23.4489468@news3.tin.it>

Hi,
i'm trying to use the SOAPpy library in order to get all the informations from the in params of a WSDL method.
I can gen easily the parameter type, but in case this is a complex type i can't ba able to navigate the types toward to simple base
type..
and the documentation with the .zip is poor.

Can someone give me a link or a simple explanation on how to do that?

thanks in advance




From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 06:15:25 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:15:25 +0900
Subject: NumPy (numarray) problem with C code
In-Reply-To: <qnkznaoscu1.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <c2mp5q$2sja$1@news.riken.go.jp>
	<qnkznaoscu1.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <c2phuj$17dm$1@news.riken.go.jp>

Thanks,
I think I was using the wrong documentation.
marc


David M. Cooke wrote:
> At some point, Marc Schellens <m_schellens at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Following the NumPy documentation, I took over some C code,
>>but run into an error.
>>Does anybody have a suggestion?
>>Thanks,
>>marc
>>
>>
>>gdlpython.cpp:225: `PyArray_Type' undeclared (first use this function)
>>
>>#include <python2.3/Python.h>
>>// python numarray is used
>>#include <python2.3/numarray/arrayobject.h>
> 
> 
> I don't know how you're compiling, but you're probably better off
> using
> #include "Python.h"
> #include "numarray/arrayobject.h"
> 
> and specifying the proper include directory. This way you're not
> hardcoded to the Python version. distutils automatically adds the
> proper directory to the compile line, for instance.
> 
> You're using numarray, so you may want to use the numarray interface
> instead of the Numeric compability interface. Include
> "numarray/libnumarray.h" instead of "numarray/arrayobject.h"
> 
> 
>>// ...
>>
>>BaseGDL* FromPython( PyObject* pyObj)
>>{
>>   PyObject *object;
>>
>>// following is line 225
>>   if( !PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "O!", &PyArray_Type, &object))
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as PyArray_Type in numarray, and actually,
> there isn't one array type. I'd check for the specific
> string/long/complex/double types first (your code below)..
> 
> 
>>     {
>>       // non-array - try other
>>       PyErr_Clear();
>>       // string
>>       char* s;
>>       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "s", s))
>>	return new DStringGDL( string(s));
>>       PyErr_Clear();
>>       // integer
>>       DLong l;
>>       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "l", &l))
>>	return new DLongGDL( l);
>>       PyErr_Clear();
>>       // complex
>>       Py_complex c;
>>       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "D", &c))
>>	{
>>	  DComplexDbl cc( c.real, c.imag);
>>	  return new DComplexDblGDL( cc);
>>	}
>>       PyErr_Clear();
>>       // float
>>       DDouble d;
>>       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "d", &d))
>>	return new DDoubleGDL( d);
>>
>>       throw GDLException( "FromPython: Cannot convert python object.") ;
>>     }
> 
> 
> and use NA_InputArray() to get the array. This returns NULL if it
> can't make the argument an array. You're using the Numeric
> compatibility functions below; you might as well use the numarray
> equivalents instead.
> 
> 
>>   // array type
>>   PyArrayObject* array = (PyArrayObject*) object;
>>
>>   int nDim = array->nd;
>>   int item_type = array->descr->type_num;
>>
>>   // make array contiguous
>>//   array = static_cast< PyArrayObject*>
>>//     (PyArray_ContiguousFromObject( object,
>>// 				   item_type,
>>// 				   0,0));
>>   array = (PyArrayObject*) PyArray_ContiguousFromObject( object,
>>							 item_type,
>>							 0,0);
>>   if( array == NULL)
>>     throw GDLException( "FromPython: Error making array contiguous.") ;
> 
> 
> Note that array will be NULL also if it's not an array; this would be
> a better way to use it.
> 
> Replace the above with something like
> 
> PyArrayObject* array = NA_InputArray(object, tAny, NUM_C_ARRAY);
> if (array == NULLL) {
>    throw GDLException( "FromPython: Error making array contiguous.") ;
> }
> int item_type = array->descr->type_num;
> 
> Double-check the numarray C API documentation as to whether you should use
> NA_InputArray or NA_IoArray.
> 
> Haven't looked at the following carefully:
> 
>>   size_t dimArr[ MAXRANK];
>>   if( nDim > MAXRANK)
>>     {
>>     Warning( "FromPython: Array has more than "+MAXRANK_STR+
>>	     " dimensions. Extending last one.");
>>     size_t lastDim = array->dimensions[ MAXRANK-1];
>>     for( size_t i=MAXRANK; i<nDim; ++i) lastDim *= array->dimensions[ i];
>>     for( size_t i=0; i<MAXRANK-1; ++i)
>>       dimArr[ i] = array->dimensions[ i];
>>     dimArr[ MAXRANK-1] = lastDim;
>>     nDim = MAXRANK;
>>     }
>>   else
>>     {
>>       for( size_t i=0; i<nDim; ++i)
>>	dimArr[ i] = array->dimensions[ i];
>>     }
>>
>>   dimension dim( dimArr, nDim);
> 
> 
> 
> Use the numarray types instead: tUInt8, tInt8, tInt16, tFloat64, etc:
> 
> 
>>   switch( item_type)
>>     {
>>       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //UNDEF***
>>     case PyArray_UBYTE:   //BYTE
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DByteGDL>( dim, array);
>>     case PyArray_SHORT:   //INT
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DIntGDL>( dim, array);
>>     case PyArray_INT:     //LONG	
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DLongGDL>( dim, array);
>>     case PyArray_FLOAT:   //FLOAT	
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DFloatGDL>( dim, array);
>>     case PyArray_DOUBLE:  //DOUBLE	
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DDoubleGDL>( dim, array);
>>     case PyArray_CFLOAT:  //COMPLEX	
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DComplexGDL>( dim, array);
>>       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //STRING***	
>>       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //STRUCT***	
>>     case PyArray_CDOUBLE: //COMPLEXDBL	
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DComplexDblGDL>( dim, array);
>>       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //PTR***		
>>       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //OBJECT***
>>     case tUInt16:         //UINT*
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DUIntGDL>( dim, array);
>>     case tUInt32:         //ULONG*
>>       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DULongGDL>( dim, array);
>>     default:
>>       throw GDLException( "FromPython: Unknown array type.") ;
>>     }
>>
>>   return NULL; // compiler shut-up
>>}
> 
> 



From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Mar 14 23:27:27 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 20:27:27 -0800
Subject: pyXML beginner questions
References: <c2soid$191t46$1@ID-190842.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0403142027.4794bef0@posting.google.com>

Sebastian Fey <fey at parsytec.de> wrote in message news:<c2soid$191t46$1 at ID-190842.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> hi, 
> 
> id like to do the following: 
> 
> (1) open a .xml, change something and save it. 
> problem is: how to save/serialize? 
> i tried xml.dom.ext.Print, but this resolves all entities and serializes 
> the xml with resolved entities. (see example below)

Sounds as if you want a lexical round-trip.  Very few XML processing
packages allow for this.  I'd check whether pxdom supports this.  If
not, I don't expect you'll find it in Python.

http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/pxdom.html

> (2) id also like to load external parsed entities referenced in the xml. 
> MSXML provides an extension(?) to DOM which returns the uri to an 
> entityReference-NODE. 
> any similar in pyXML.  actually, is nodetype entityReference implemented 
> in pyXML. i always get the nodeType of the resolved entity, ie 3
> (NODE_TEXT) with a internal unparsed entity.

Again pxdom will get you closest.

--Uche


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar  5 02:09:13 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:09:13 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c29981$4eu$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> PyXML would be a perfect solution - and easy too.

Even easier would be to use an SGML parser:
http://flangy.com/dev/python/striphtml.html

Works for XML, HTML, etc.

  - Josiah


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 15:16:15 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:16:15 +0100
Subject: Problems with py2exe 0.50 and win98se and win2k
References: <a091da2f.0403241125.62360fc6@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.392.1080214274.742.python-list@python.org>
	<a091da2f.0403251106.66e1c6f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zna48yy8.fsf@python.net>

jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna) writes:

>> 
>> Can it be that py2exe collects some system dlls in the dist dir?
>
> The dlls it collects are:
> python23.dll (needed)
> qt-mt230nc.dll (needed - i use pyqt)
> libsip.dll (also for pyqt)
>
> Also it collects:
> ddraw.dll
> glu32.dll
> opengl32.dll
>
> Not sure why it collects those last 3.
> Could that be the problem?

Yes, that's the problem.  I just examined the last three dlls with
dependencywalker, and found that opengl32.dll on my XP Pro, SP 1 system
uses the IsWow64Process function in kernel32.dll.

Looking at opengl32.dll file properties, the file version is
"5.1.2600.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920)", which look xp specific.

Using the XP version of this file (and I guess the same holds for
ddraw.dll and glu32.dll) on win98 or win2k surely leads to desaster.

I think that you must install DDraw and OpenGL on the target system 'the
official way', and not by using the files that py2exe collects.  py2exe
has a simple mechanism which tries to exclude 'system dlls', but
obviously it fails in this case.

Therefore you should use the 'dll_excludes' option, the wiki has an
example how to use it.

Thomas





From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Tue Mar 23 20:36:49 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:36:49 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>

On the trail of figuring out why IDLE won't launch, look at this:

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Tkinter
>>> Tkinter._test()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 3640, in _test
    root = Tk()
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
    self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
directories:
    {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.4
C:/Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library
This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
>>>


Here \WN16 is where *another* TCL/TK application *used* to reside.  And the
TCL stuff definitely *does* exist under C:\Python23\tcl\tcl8.4 (not
lib\tcl8.4).

By default does Python 2.3.3 install itself incorrectly???!!






From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 15:57:26 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:57:26 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <7xoer1ls3j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<7xoer1ls3j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c2t87m$ajn$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> If they have changed the root password on their machine, then the old
> root password in your script won't work on that machine.
> 
> Find another way to do what you're asking.

Well, it works. They change the password and the script changes it 
back... try it yourself on Mac OSX 10.3.x, before claiming it doesn't work.

def set_pass():
    import pexpect
    import time
    # pexpect is an addon module.
    # It has to be installed manually.
    set = r"password"
    child = pexpect.spawn("/usr/bin/passwd")
    child.expect_exact("New password:")
    child.sendline(set)
    time.sleep(0.1)
    child.expect_exact("Retype new password:")
    child.sendline(set)
    time.sleep(0.1)
    child.close()



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 00:04:25 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:04:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
In-Reply-To: <Dlw4c.789400$X%5.393213@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <20040313050425.74690.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
Thanks! Just one more favour.
I want to sort the entries on this new dictionary.
(Increasing order) and convert it back to a string
where each values are not separated by , but by space.

ie. for example: I have a string s of the form
index: value, index: value, index: value

I converted it to a dictionary by the method you
suggested. I want to sort the entries now, with
increasing order of index.

Once I have the sorted dictionary, I want to convert
it back to a string of the form

1 index:value index:value index:value


Note, that 1 is added because I am creating feature
vectors of the type "spam". index: value pairs are now
separated by space instead of comma and finally I want
to write this to a file.

The whole notion of making a string to a dictionary
was because of sorting.

Can you extend this piece of code for the above
objective. I will indeed be very grateful to you.


import string

# define a test string
s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
# get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
s1 = s1[1:-1]
# split string at the commas
s2 = string.split(s1,',')
mydict = {}
for item in s2:
        a,b = string.split(item,":")
        mydict[a] = b
        print mydict[a]
print "Dictionary is: ", mydict









Thanks
Dont


--- midtoad <stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org> wrote:
> dont bother wrote:
> 
> > I have a string:
> > 
> > feature_vector. It is of the form
> > <index: value, index: value, index: value>
> > 
> > I want to make this string into a dictionary so
> that I
> > can apply .keys() method
> 
> okay, here's a solution, assuming that your < and >
> are part of the string.
> If not, remove the line where you take a slice.  
> I'm sure that there are
> more Pythonic solutions, but this works...
> 
> ---
> import string
> 
> # define a test string
> s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
> # get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
> s1 = s1[1:-1]
> # split string at the commas
> s2 = string.split(s1,',')
> mydict = {}
> for item in s2:
>         a,b = string.split(item,":")
>         mydict[a] = b
>         print mydict[a]
> print "Dictionary is: ", mydict
> ---
> 
> cheers
> Stewart
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From timr at probo.com  Fri Mar 26 02:24:21 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:24:21 -0800
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4im76054evpqbgkk2ja96rq66t1rm9r2uk@4ax.com>

jnoller at reference-info.com (Jesse Noller) wrote:
>
>I'm fairly new to python as a language - and really new to
>multithreaded application dev, so please be gentle.
>
>Right now, I have a script that basically looks like:
>
>def foo():
>
>   f = open(file, "r")
>   for lines in file.readlines:
>        do something
>        bar(var, var)
>        write stuff to a results file
>   file.close
>   return
>
>foo()
>
>Now, what the file I am opening contains is a whole bunch of lines
>with a filepath in it I need to process with foo() and bar() - each
>transaction writes some data to some log files.
>
>I am trying to figure out with how best to approach multithreading
>this

Multithreading will not help this sequence unless (A) you have multiple
processors, or (B) the processing in bar() needs to wait for something.  If
bar() is CPU bound, you would get the same performance by just executing
sequentially.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Mar 29 11:50:57 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:50:57 +0200
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.0.0pre21
Message-ID: <mailman.1080653404.19118.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Find a new pre-release of python-ldap:

   http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

Changes:
Wrapped OpenLDAP's ldap_whoami_s(). Fixed incompability with OpenLDAP 2.2
libs. Code cleaning.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.0.0pre21 2004-03-29

Changes since 2.0.0pre20:

setup.py:
* runtime_library_dirs is set

Modules/:
* (Hopefully) fixed building with OpenLDAP 2.2 libs in errors.c
* Removed meaningless repr() function from LDAPObject.c
* Removed setting LDAP_OPT_PROTOCOL_VERSION in l_ldap_sasl_bind_s()
* Modified string handling via berval instead of *char
   in l_ldap_compare_ext() makes it possible to compare attribute
   values with null chars.
* Wrapped ldap_sasl_bind() for simple binds instead of ldap_bind()
   since 1. the latter is marked deprecated and 2. ldap_sasl_bind()
   allows password credentials with null chars.
* Removed unused sources linkedlist.c and linkedlist.h
* Function l_ldap_whoami_s() only added if built against
   OpenLDAP 2.1.x+ libs (should preserve compability with 2.0 libs)

ldap.ldapobject:
* LDAPObject.bind() only allows simple binds since Kerberos V4
   binds of LDAPv2 are not supported anymore. An assert statement
   was added to make the coder aware of that.
* Renamed former LDAPObject.sasl_bind_s() to
   LDAPObject.sasl_interactive_bind_s() since it wraps OpenLDAP's
   ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s()



From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 27 10:41:42 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:41:42 -0700
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<mailman.470.1080395929.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jf7b60lucu40v49epdbeca3kvp65d25j2d@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:58:44 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>Thanks to Microsoft, attachments frequently don't pass through mail servers
>these days.  I know I filter all attachments out of a couple small mailing
>lists I manage.

I've never had this problem.  Is this something MS exchange does?

>At any rate, I agree with John that the Prothon folks got this particular
>bit dead wrong.  If they wanted to avoid tab/space problems they should have
>required that all indentation use only spaces, not only tabs.

The advantage of tabs ( a small one in my opinion ) is that the reader
can adjust the actual spacing to his preference.  Another advantage is
that you can add leading spaces for purely cosmetic reasons (lining up
columns in a continuation line ).  The tabs control the syntax.

x = 1.23 + 2.34 + 3.45 + 4.56 + \
    5.23 + 6.34 + 7.44 + 8.56      # Which number is slightly off ?

The solution I believe, is to have a special 'publishing' mode where
tabs are replaced by the character sequence '.   ' with however many
spaces the sender wants.  The dots actually make large, deeply-nested
blocks easier to read.

Of course, we will need a matching import mode, converting the
dot-space sequences back to tabs.

-- Dave



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 08:55:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:55:25 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>

Greg Krohn wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> ...
>> I don't understand this, though it's been mentioned before.
>>
>> On my machine, launching the wxPython Demo app takes roughly 0 seconds
>> before the splash screen appears, and I can immediately click on it
>> and get the app itself, for a total launch time of: immeasurably fast.
> 
> On my machine (WinXP Pro, AMD 2400, 512MB) it takes a little over three 
> seconds before the splash shows and maybe another two seconds for the 
> main frame to show. It takes a little over a second to load IDLE.

The first time I launched IDLE, it took almost three seconds.  (I don't
have the Python installer compile .py files ahead of time.)  After that
it takes about one second as well.

I'm curious about the differences with wxPython.  Three seconds seems
unusually long when on a slightly slower machine I can do it in well
under a second.  Was that the first time you ran it?  Many other apps
open?  I have over 256MB RAM free when I try this...

-Peter


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sun Mar 14 22:26:33 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 14:16:33 +1050
Subject: Seeking advice on GUI code architecture
References: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5a9on.4ib.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:29:08 -0500, Qp wrote:
> My problem is this:  how do you keep your GUI code seperate from as much
> underlying code as possible?

In the last decade, the "pattern language" method of formalising common
architectural solutions has been increasingly popular in programming.
It is especially popular in things like interface programming, where the
architecture chosen has a dramatic effect on the efficacy and efficiency
of the program.

What you want may be the "Model-View-Controller" pattern.  Others may
suggest other patterns.  You would be well advised to read up on current
common patterns in interface design.

-- 
 \         "I think a good gift for the President would be a chocolate |
  `\   revolver. And since he's so busy, you'd probably have to run up |
_o__)           to him real quick and hand it to him."  -- Jack Handey |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 11:19:16 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: Unicode is driving me nuts!
In-Reply-To: <20040313083545.50340.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <16466.22306.480990.299621@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<20040313083545.50340.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16467.13444.992381.764066@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Anthony> Thank you, Skip.  You know what, I guess I'll give up using
    Anthony> unicode, as you also mentioned you used to have headache with
    Anthony> it.

    Anthony> I'll probably just read by bytes and check if the byte is a
    Anthony> Chinese character.  If it is, read 2 bytes instead.  What do
    Anthony> you think?  This way, I will hopefully not to have a lot of
    Anthony> unreadable characters.

I should have been clearer.  I wasn't suggesting that you not use Unicode.
That way lies madness.  Don't give up.  Unicode isn't intractable.  It is a
somewhat different way of thinking about handling text.  In my case I
already had a large set of Python programs and a MySQL database which knew
nothing about Unicode so converting them was more difficult than if I'd
started from scratch with Unicode (which wasn't available in Python when I
began Musi-Cal in 1995).  I tried a couple simple hacks which didn't work
(different than, but with the same shortcut idea in my head as your "read a
byte, sniff for a Chinese character" idea).  Once I bit the bullet and
converted to Unicode (and the utf-8 encoding when I needed raw bytes) it
wasn't as hard as I'd expected.  I think Python is still a little
schizophrenic in some regards, returning strings when the content is pure
ASCII and returning Unicode objects otherwise.  In some places you need to
test.  In the future I hope we see more of a string/Unicode convergence with
a separate byte object for character data that doesn't represent some kind
of text (like the string representation of code objects).

The two biggest problems which remain for me are:

    * I'm still using a Perl/Mason web front-end which doesn't do Unicode
      right

    * Web form submissions lack of consistent encoding information

I still have to sniff those inputs to guess at the encoding.  This is more
frequent than you might think even for a website <http://www.musi-cal.com>
which has a largely US/Canadian user base.

In short, you need a basic understanding of Unicode issues.  The Joel on
Software web page <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html>
someone else posted is a decent start.  Googling for "python unicode" will
yield a nice tutorial from ReportLab and several other interesting links.
Play around with some small examples.

When designing your application consider all the possible input sources and
output destinations.  When writing text to files or databases that are not
Unicode-aware make sure you store everything using one encoding (I recommend
utf-8).  That way, other programs which read that data (or your own program
later on) can assume the encoding.  When reading input data make sure you
understand the auxiliary properties of the data source (for instance, grab
the content-type header from the HTTP response of pages you download from
the net - but be prepared to catch errors and guess, as it can sometimes be
wrong).  If working with data of unknown encoding you'll have to figure out
some heuristics for guessing the data encoding.  Did I mention you need to
know how all input and output text is encoded?  The most important thing to
remember (JoS points this out) is: It any nuthin' unless you know the
encoding.  Did I say that enough?

unicode('\xfe\xff\x00<\x00w\x00i\x00n\x00k\x00>', "utf-16").encode("ascii")

Skip



From amy-g-art at cox.net  Sat Mar 20 03:01:48 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:01:48 -0800
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <JTS6c.15939$Bg.5379@fed1read03>

I have never used the md5 module that python offers... but after reading
this post I thought I would try it out.

>>> n = md5.new()
>>> n.update("help")
>>> n.hexdigest()
'657f8b8da628ef83cf69101b6817150a'

But I run FreeBSD 5.0 and when I execute
$ echo help | openssl md5
45b758a4f518f3ff31363696132f5f5a

What gives?  What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance for shedding some light on my "easy" question.


Carl Banks" <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote in message
news:m1O6c.25774$P45.20864 at fe1.columbus.rr.com...
> Grumfish wrote:
> > I'm trying to use the md5 module but it gives me a different result from
> > what other programs give. This is the code I have and the result from
> > hexdigest() never matches what I expect. Its probably something stupid
> > but its driving me crazy.
> >
> > f = file (filename, "r")
> > m = md5.new()
> > data = f.read (CHUNK_SIZE)
> > while data != "":
> >        m.update (data)
> >        data = f.read (CHUNK_SIZE)
>
>
> I'll wager this is happening on Windows.  When reading data in text
> mode on Windows, Python converts "\r\n" sequence to "\n".  You need to
> open the file in binary mode.  Try changing the first line to:
>
>     f = file(filename,"rb")
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
> "If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
> don't do milk, you can get work."
>           -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon




From roy at panix.com  Wed Mar 17 19:46:31 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:46:31 -0500
Subject: attributes of Python classes
References: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com>
	<4058F086.490C215B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <roy-2641A9.19463117032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <4058F086.490C215B at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > I have started using classes with Python and have a question
> > about their use.
> > 
> > In Python, 'attributes are all "public" and "virtual" in C++
> > terms; they're all accessible everywhere and all looked up
> > dynamically at runtime' (Quoting "Learning Python", 2nd. ed.,
> > p367). It seems to me that two good conventions are to
> > 
> > (1) initialize all attributes in the __init__ function
> > (2) avoid creating new attributes elsewhere that are not initialized
> > in
> >     __init__
> > 
> > I have not followed these conventions so far, and sometimes
> > it is difficult for me to tell what attributes an instance of
> > a class has. Are these conventions good?
> 
> Yes, I think so, provided a key feature of the class in question isn't
> that it's inherently dynamic (in which case it's inherently infeasible
> to do this) -- an example might be a class that you'd like to mimic the
> interface of a module, so it effectively acts like a dictionary but it
> allows attribute access to access the dictionary as well.
> 
> I certainly follow them as best as is possible in my own code; I can
> only think of once instance in an old project where I don't do that, and
> it's marked as ugly in the code.

I agree that initializing all attributes in __init__ is a good idea.  
Even if you initialize them to None and overwrite them in some other 
method before ever accessing the value, it's still a nice way to help 
soem future reader understand your class better.  If it's a good idea to 
have self-documenting code, I guess it's an even better idea to have 
executable comments :-)


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 13 06:16:19 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:16:19 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1055re3j9v2oja1@news.supernews.com>


"Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list at python.org...
> --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> wrote: > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> writes:
> >
> > > Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:
> > >
> > > > Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> > > > > How do I force static typing in Python?
> > > >
> > > > You have to enforce it by code instead of
> > declaration, i.e. you
> > > > have to do runtime type checking.
> > >
> > > Just what do you understand "static typing" to
> > mean ?
> >
> > I ask because I am prepared to accept that you have
> > a different
> > working definition of "static typing" from mine, but
> > people who
> > actually want static typing typically want it
> > because they think it
> > gives them the following advantages:
> >
> > a) type errors caught at compile time,
> >
> > b) faster program exectution.
> >
> > The code you showed:
> >
> > > > class doesTypeChecking:
> > > >      def __init__(self):
> > > >          self.__dict__["aString"] = ""
> > > >          self.__dict__["aFloat"] = 0.0
> > > >
> > > >      def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
> > > >          if type(self.__dict__[attr]) !=
> > type(value):
> > > >              raise ValueError, "Type mismatch
> > for attribute %s\n" % attr
> >
> > will catch no type errors at compile time, and will
> > slow down
> > execution, so I suspect that Premshree will be
> > disapponinted with it.
> >
> >
> > (BTW, my definition of "static typing" is "type
> > checking is done at
> > compile time" ... your example really looks like
> > dynamic typing to
> > me ... albeit with some restrictions on attribute
> > types.)
> >
> >
> > Premshree: Python is dynamically typed. There is no
> > way to enforce
> >            static typing. There is something called
> > "pychecker" which
> >            might be of some help to you. Why do you
> > think that you
> >            want static typing in Python ?
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
> so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is there
> something like it in Python?

No.

> Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> important requirement in a language?

No.

John Roth
>
> =====
> -Premshree
> [http://www.qiksearch.com/]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies,
services, tools and more.
> Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
>




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 10:44:24 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:44:24 -0800
Subject: Tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <40682BD8.3040501@stackless.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40682BD8.3040501@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <40684458.9030507@mlug.missouri.edu>


> No, I think you don't get at the real problem:
> People do use tabs which are 8 spaces, but they
> want their code to be indented by steps of four.
> This creates mixed tabbing, and that's what you
> see way too often when reading foreign code.
> You have to adjust your editor to *that* tabbing,
> before editing the file, and then convert or
> live with it.

How would this create mixed tabbing unless sometimes they are using 
spaces as tabs and sometimes using tabs as tabs? Will stopping the use 
of tabs improve the situation or will that just mean that some people 
use four spaces for indention and some people use eight.. both being a 
hack to try to make spaces act like tabs. Why does it matter if a tab is 
4 spaces long or 8 spaces long? Either way blocks should line up 
assuming that nobody incorrectly tries to use spaces as tabs. If we get 
rid of support for using tabs for indenting then what? Some people (like 
myself) will continue using programs that insert tabs when  they press 
the tab key and everyone else will still be adjusting their editors to 
try to substitute the desired number of spaces when the tab key is 
pressed. What would be fixed?

It took a long time to convince me that Python wasn't insane for making 
whitespace significant. If people really have so much trouble with it (I 
don't) maybe it is a bad idea to use it to indicate code blocks?



From aghuloum at cs.indiana.edu  Mon Mar  8 15:13:30 2004
From: aghuloum at cs.indiana.edu (Abdulaziz Ghuloum)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:13:30 -0500
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<smgoljbm.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <0001HW.BC723E1A0003EDD1F02845B0@news.indiana.edu>

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:31:57 -0500, Joe Marshall wrote
(in message <smgoljbm.fsf at ccs.neu.edu>):

> "Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> writes:
>> Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will tell
>> you someplace that it is still in active use.
> 
> Focal
> FX
> Lakota
> REBOL 1.x

At IU, we use Focal in the digital design course to stress-test our 
hand-built PDP8s.

Aziz,,,




From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Wed Mar  3 04:10:27 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:10:27 +0100
Subject: input from sdtin or file...
Message-ID: <4045a103$0$28147$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

hello,

i wonder if there is a more pythonic way to do this : having input of a
script either from a file or from stdin if the file is not provided, see
below.
what do you think of it ? is there a better way ?
i have noticed some strange behaviour with stdin having sometimes to do 2 *
ctrl-z to end the input, or also stange temporizing when using os
redirection (like ./myscript.py <smallfile.txt) and script is delayed a lot,
is it a known issue ? or am i missing something ?

best wishes,

------
 file_in = None
 lines = None
 try:
  file_in = args[0]
 except IndexError:
  lines = sys.stdin
 if file_in and not lines:
  try:
   lines = open(file_in, 'r')
  except IOError:
   sys.stderr.write("%s: %s: missing or invalid file argument\n" %
(globals()['_program'], file_in))
   sys.exit(2)
 for line in lines:
  #do what i need

lines.close()





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 18:19:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:19:25 -0500
Subject: anyone knew mysql
In-Reply-To: <mailman.168.1079724978.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.168.1079724978.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <UcWdnUUuiJFj4sbdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Zhi Peng wrote:
> Hi!
> Does anyone know if MySql support unicode data?
> ??????

This isn't exactly a Python question, is it?

Anyway, even here Google is your friend, leading fairly quickly to

    http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Charset.html

-Peter


From tyrone_1066 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 15:50:42 2004
From: tyrone_1066 at yahoo.com (J Hamilton)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 12:50:42 -0800
Subject: Variable in Regex
Message-ID: <c1cb4138.0403271250.70e336d0@posting.google.com>

In Perl in can put a scalar variable in a regex as the pattern.

for example: m/$var/  where $var contains the string I want to match

Is there a way to do this in Python?


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 22 13:04:17 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:04:17 -0800
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
References: <mailman.223.1079927977.742.python-list@python.org>
	<hb6dna_Jyf5QQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <rdm3j1-l1g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> __import__ doesn't handle packages, right?  The above with exec()
> appears, unfortunately, to be the simplest approach(*) to handling
> *arbitrary* imports, even if they are nested as in xml.sax.whatever.

Depends on your definition of *arbitrary* :-)  I had the need to
load files that could have any arbitrary filename in any arbitrary
location (ie not even remotely anywhere near sys.path).

   import imp
   module=imp.load_source("__ignore", file, open(file, "rt"))

You can name your module something better than I did.  I was loading
a whole bunch of files whose names are not even valid for Python
modules, and I didn't care what they thought they were called
(the module object above was stuck in a dictionary).

Roger




From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 23 11:19:57 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:19:57 -0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1060otdm07s0678@corp.supernews.com>

In article <7xad28313c.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I keep hearing this, but I don't see any large (much less very large)
>applications that have been done in Python; Zope is medium sized.
>
>Suppose you wanted to write any of the following:
>
>1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
>2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
>3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
>4) Avionics for the space shuttle
>5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
>6) Tax processing software for the IRS
>7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
>8) Accounting software for a big bank
>9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
>10) ... well you get the idea.
>
>Which, if any, would you write in Python?  By "write in Python" I mean
			.
			.
			.
I'd DEFINITELY feel comfortable with 1).  Do you think of
GCC as "big", in that sense?  I don't; maybe there's some-
thing I'm missing, even though I've maintained other 
compilers on and off for a couple of decades.

For 5) I'm infatuated with Erlang, of course.

I'd probably change careers rather than work with 2) or 3).

9)'s another area where I have deep experience, and, no, I
can't get my thoughts past C or assembler there.  That 
might be personal habituation.

Anyway, who *has* "gone big"?  Easy answers:  Industrial
Light & Magic, Rackspace, Walt Disney Feature Animation,
... and, arguably one of the ten biggest "applications" on
the planet:  Google!
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From llothar at web.de  Tue Mar 23 21:53:54 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 18:53:54 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
	<fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c37svj$jlu$1@news.service.uci.edu> <uoeqojxg8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403231853.16e1f88a@posting.google.com>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message news:<uoeqojxg8.fsf at fitlinxx.com>...

> Of course, you could rebuild the DLL removing support for the various
> stuff you don't currently need, but that's not too convenient for
> maintaining over time, and not everyone has the facilities for
> rebuilding the wxPython DLL from wxWidgets source.
> 
> I seem to recall reading that 2.5.x might contain (or support)
> fracturing the main monolithic DLL into well-defined smaller pieces
> that hopefully will improve this.

I'm not sure. Is this a wxPython problem or does a C++ wxWidget also
loads so slow ? If it is the former i would think that it comes from a
naive coding style that forces all bindings done at startup and not
when first used.

And i guess if someone would change this, it the wxPython team is
happy to include this fix.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  2 10:29:53 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:29:53 -0500
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some
	languageproposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com><95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2299j$kpt$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c at posting.google.com...
> 1. Assuming all "for" loops and list comprehensions are replaced
>    with Haskell bindings rules, what about backward compatibility
>    problems? For instance: is there enough code relying on the loop
>    variable being available outside the loop?

Guido has given things like the following as an intentional reason for the
current rule (and for for...else):

for item in seq:
  if acceptable(item): break
else:
  item = None
# item is now either the first acceptible item in seq or None

If you do not like the iteration var remaining bound, you can explicitly
delete it.  If it is automatically deleted, constructions like the above
are rendered more difficult.

A list comp encapulates a specialized for loop whose specific job is to
produce a list.  It makes more sense to delete the binding automatically
there since a) there is no way, when seq is empty, to force a binding to
*something*, with else and b) the last item of the list is readily
available anyway as result[-1].

Terry J. Reedy






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar 15 18:39:18 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:39:18 -0600
Subject: xreadlines() being used with file.tell() and  file.seek()
In-Reply-To: <c34vpp$7s3$1@news01.intel.com>
References: <c34vpp$7s3$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <20040315233918.GA13552@unpythonic.net>

xreadlines() internally does something like this [using the Python 2.3
generator function syntax]:
    def xreadlines(f):
        while 1:
            chunk = f.readlines(sizehint)
            if not chunk: break
            for line in chunk:
                yield line

Unless you happen to seek() just as xreadlines is between chunks, the
result of the seek won't be seen until later, when the next chunk is
read.  Your input file is far too small to notice this effect.

Similarly, after you've started an xreadlines() on a file, the file will
tell() you that it is after the end of all the lines in chunk.

xreadlines is supposed to be fast, and it really doesn't care what other
file-like object assumptions it invalidates to get that result.

Jeff



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 31 08:15:53 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:15:53 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <106lh64rda8t9d4@news.supernews.com>


"Didier Morandi" <no at spam.com> wrote in message
news:c4e6jv$10te$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
>
> What against-top-posting people do not WANT to understand is that the very
first
> interest of posting is, to me, to get help or information.
>
> So, you post your question and, by definition, you remember what it was
(well, I
> hope so).
>
> Then, you go back to the ng the day after and if you got an answer, you
are
> interested in the answer, not to reread your post.

That's a very good point. One of the forums I read is Baen's Bar
(Baen Publishing) where the publisher has an ironclad rule that
responses to him *must* be top posted. He is absolutely not
going to hit the page down button to see whether there was
anything interesting in the response. If he doesn't see it where
his eyes are pointing, it might as well not exist. I suspect it's the
only way he gets through his mail to get anything done.

AFAIC, it doesn't matter whether you put your response at the
top or bottom; what matters to me is whether I can find what
you're talking about quickly. That means ruthless pruning of the
post so that old stuff gets deleted.

John Roth




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar 14 06:41:05 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:41:05 +0100
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <89WdnQhnm6Gkwdfd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <c31l22$v0l$2@sea.gmane.org>

"Robert" wrote:

> Is the WCK still an active project?

yes.  wck 1.0 for tkinter was released in december 2003, and
should be considered as a stable release.

> Also, at one point there was going to be an O'Reilly book on
> Tkinter, did that die?

yes.

</F>






From kbk at shore.net  Sat Mar 20 17:00:00 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:00:00 GMT
Subject: Idle won't start - Update
References: <ecebe16b.0312141050.4a10fbba@posting.google.com>
	<8eh830tlh056hk21hm9v49m3qcinjv4pq9@4ax.com>
	<ekd930dhm5p9280hg41gbdu3heosq6f8tm@4ax.com>
	<0cq930hneq0bni65g6viroa86l5lj6ogt0@4ax.com>
	<u44p50huqtd4vlkp057vmnanhep5tbhulj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87y8pvrxgg.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> With the Task Manager, I see about 8 pythonw.exe processes running!!
> I killed them all.  Now things seem back to normal.

That's the right thing to do.

>
> The only thing I can think of that has been unusual in the last few
>days is that I have been running IDLE simultaneously with Python from
>the command line, 

This should not be a problem.  I do it all the time.

>and doing some testing in both windows of computations involving
>illegal floating-point numbers ( inf and nan ).  This does not cause
>a crash, or anything beyond the usual traceback in python.
>
> I noticed that when I start Python from a command line, I get one
> process (python.exe) in the Task Manager.  When I start Python using
> IDLE, I get two processes (both named pythonw.exe).

Often you get three.  The GUI, the subprocess mainthread, and the
subprocess socket_thread.  On Unix, you get two.

> I tried starting and closing multiple copies of IDLE.  

Now this you don't want to do.  Right now IDLE uses one port to
communicate with the subprocess and only one instance of IDLE with
subprocess is allowed.  In the future IDLE will be enhanced to allow
multiple instances with subprocess.

You can run as many IDLE instances with the -n switch as you like in
parallel with the single instance of IDLE with subprocess.

>This seems to leave some zombie 'pythonw.exe' processes still alive.

Yes, they are trying to connect to the GUI.

If you write code which causes the subprocess to block,
e.g. sleep(999) and then restart the shell, you will see a zombie left
behind.  In 999 seconds it should disappear.  But it is possible to
write code which blocks forever.  On Unix, a restart also sends a
SIGKILL to the subprocess, which takes care of the zombies, but that
isn't available on Windows.

>Another strange phenomenon - I always get two more 'pythonw.exe'
>processes with each start of IDLE, but sometimes I get an extra
>window, and sometimes not.  Closing the extra windows leaves one more
>'pythonw.exe' than when I started, so they do accumulate.

A couple of months ago improvements were made to the robustness of the
subprocess communication.  If you can use the current CVS, you may get
better results and I'd be interested in hearing about any further
problems.

I'm away for a bit, so I can't follow up immediately.
-- 
KBK


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 19:15:00 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 16:15:00 -0800
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.26.1079372001.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403151615.df97eb9@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u at 4ax.com>...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:33:04 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >The only problem I can see with reload() is that it doesn't do what you
> >want.  But on the other hand, what reload() does is perfectly well
> >defined, and at least the avenues I've seen explored for "enhancing" it
> >look, well, like train wreck.
> 
> It's worse than just a misunderstanding.  It's a serious limitation on
> what we can do with editing a running program. 

As I said in another message, you CAN do the kinds of things you want
to do (edit-and-continue), if you use weakrefs, and use classes
instead of modules. Take a look at the weakref module. I am not saying
that it's trivial in Python: it does require a bit of work, but
edit-and-continue in Python is definitely doable. I've done it, many
other people have done it.

(Of course, if you asked whether the Ruby behavior is better, I'd
think so. I think it's better to automatically replace class behavior
on reload, by default, and leave open the possibility of explicitly
refusing replacement. Python is the opposite: by default the class
behavior does NOT get modified, and you have to do somework to replace
it.)

I think it is an historical accident in Python that modules are not
made more class-like. Another thing I have seen people wishing having
is getter/setter accessor methods (or properties) for module-level
attributes.

It usually is a better practice in Python to store attributes in
classes rather than modules, exactly because down the future you'd
often start to wish having class-like behaviors for your modules.

regards,

Hung Jung


From ark at acm.org  Wed Mar 17 17:01:55 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:01:55 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com><gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com><40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com><GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net><40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.97.1079541755.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nV36c.41479$H44.754751@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.97.1079541755.742.python-list at python.org...

> Deducing details of the implementation *is*, for people with a certain
> curiosity, a legitimate usage, in spite of your distain for such.
> Explaining the bahavior of
>
> a=[1]
> b=a
> a[0]=2
> print b
>
> is another use for 'is'.

Lists are mutable, so there's no proposal to change the behavior of "is" in
this context.




From python at rcn.com  Sun Mar 21 15:10:32 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 12:10:32 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403160058.626d0a35@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0403170242.759ac8d9@posting.google.com>
	<e4e0340c.0403210627.2cfe88c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403211210.703991c2@posting.google.com>

> > Also, I'm not sure your proposal is self-consistent.  If I read it
> > correctly, there is a strong notion of having the iterator remember
> > the last item emitted even if its position changes.  However, with a
> > combination of slice deletion and insertion, the notion of the last
> > item emitted becomes muddy:
> > 
> > lyst = range(10)
> > it = iter(lyst)
> > for i in xrange(5):
> >    it.next()
> > lyst[3:7] = [20]
> > print it.next()          # Should this print 20 or 7 ?
> 
> In this case my class returns a 20.  My thinking on this was that if a
> slice containing the "normal" next item is replaced by a slice,

When designing a new type, the trick is to avoid areas where two
different people could reasonably expect different "normal" behaviors.
 Otherwise, you're doing more harm than good and making it likely that
your users will stumble into a class of bugs that are extremely
difficult to hunt down.

They are truly much better off with the paradigm of looping through
one list and building another.  In-place alteration is as icebergs are
to the Titanic.  Only the simplest cases are reasonable (changing
values but not size; or reverse iterating and popping away items after
the current position).

 > > Py2.4 adds a new type, collections.deque(), that can reasonably
be
> > made to do what your asking (workable because there is no slicing,
> > just appending or popping from either end and setitem value
> > mutations):
 . . .
> This looks great.  It would indeed work for the class I had in mind. 
> Frankly, the fact that the iterator for deque works *correctly* seems
> to beg the question, "why doesn't the iterator for list work
> correctly?"  

What makes lists different is that slicing operations can alter them
in the middle.  The inconsistencies disappear at the end points. 
Deques only mutate at the ends, so you always have a clear definition
of "what's next".



>  There follows a revision of the
> code I posted originally, which attempts to demonstrate that.

The code is an improvement, but still suffers from the definitional
ambiguity mentioned above.  I believe this is inescapable.  Consider a
line at movie, you leave the line, others join in the middle, others
leave, a few more join, a few more leave, now who is the person who
"naturally" comes after you.

All the contortions in the code still suggest to me that the use case
needs a different algorithm.  Try rewriting it with separate input and
output lists.  My bet is that the code is clearer and more
maintainable.


 
> import itertools

Hey, hey, I love to see people using my module ;-)


> class muterable_list(list):
>     """just like a list except it iterates gracefully under
> mutation"""

There is one word in the docstring that is debatable.  Any guesses ;-)



Raymond Hettinger


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Tue Mar 23 20:29:35 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 01:29:35 GMT
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
References: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<pl36j1-10q.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3qo9v$tr3$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com>:
> M2Crypto does work on Windows, Linux and Mac.  

Developed on FreeBSD. ;-)

> I did however have
> to spend almost a week to get things working well, mainly because
> M2Crypto is geared to work on Python 1.5 and up, 

Just showing its age, is all. 

I use Zope 2.6 with Python 2.1. When I move to Zope 2.7 on Python 2.3 I'll
forget about Python 2.1. 

Any new stuff I write (ha!) I'll use the most recent Python. 

Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Fri Mar 12 12:30:37 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:30:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc53sr8.lvf.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:11:30 -0500, Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is there a way to
> encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing the file, but
> when the sting is used it's decoded? For example:

The only remotely secure way is to do what Unix does in /etc/passwd (to name
a well-documented example).  As far as I can see.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@      ''If All Men Were Brothers,
\X/                algonet.se>    Would You Let One Marry Your Sister?''


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 19 13:07:29 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:07:29 -0500
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
Message-ID: <c3fcss$rt6$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Darabos Daniel" <cyhawk at sch.bme.hu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978 at balu...
> Hi!
>
> I was doing something like this:
>
> >>> def p( x ):
> ...     print x
> ...
> >>> l = []
> >>> for i in range( 5 ):
> ...     l.append( lambda: p( i ) )
> ...
> >>> for k in l:
> ...     k()
> ...
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 4
>
> And it surprised me a little. I was expecting to see 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

If you had written

for i in range(5):
  def f(): return p(i)
  l.append(f)

would you have still been surprised?  Or given that f is constant, how
about the exactly equivalent

def f(): return p(i)
for i in range(5):
  l.append(f)

or even the equivalent

def f(): return p(j)
for i in range(5):
  l.append(f)
j=i
def p(z): print z
<etc>


> After some brainwork I now kind of understand what happens and I even
> found a solution like this:
>
> >>> def mylambda( fn, *args ):
> ...     return lambda: apply( fn, args )
> ...
> >>> l = []
> >>> for i in range( 5 ):
> ...     l.append( mylambda( p, i ) )
> ...
> >>> for k in l:
> ...     k()
> ...
> 0
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
>
> But I still feel a bit unsatisfied. Do you have some advice for me?

Remember that 1) 'lambda args: expr' basically abbreviates 'def f(args):
return expr'; and 2)  function code bodies only execute when the function
is called, and in particular, do not dereference or access globals until
called.  While a function is being constructed, it is irrelevant that a
global even exist, let along that it be in use as a loop var.

Terry J. Reedy






From kirk at strauser.com  Fri Mar 12 15:10:08 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:10:08 GMT
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2t43d$4od$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <87r7vxg755.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2004-03-12T19:46:53Z, Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:

> 1. To administer the machine.

To my knowledge, there is absolutely nothing that can be done by root that
cannot be done via an appropriately-configured sudo.  I administer a raft of
servers and literally *never* type the root password unless I'm logging in
at a console in single-user mode.

> 2. All they have to do is click a check-box to disable ssh in OSX.

Gotcha.  Wouldn't something along the lines of "don't do this, or else we
won't be able to help you when you need it, and it just makes more work for
everyone involved" go a long way?

> 3. I didn't know about chpass.

I mentioned it above already, but to re-iterate: you really need to read up
on 'sudo' as well.  It's the solution you're looking for.

> 4. We're informal. Admins are noramlly only called when the user has
> *really* messed something up. We put out their fires. When we try to stop
> them from creating fires, we become over-bearing and
> controlling... classic admin/user relationship.

Understood.
- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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From gnupeaker at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 05:20:34 2004
From: gnupeaker at yahoo.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:20:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Split a string by length
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040325102034.61803.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

I am not sure this is the best method, but a very
useful function I've been using is:

def divide(seq, size):
    return [seq[i:i+size]  for i in xrange(0,
len(seq), size)]

>>> divide('aabbcc', 2)
['aa', 'bb', 'cc']

(Works on non-strings too)

I put it in a common library and I reuse it all the
time.
I'd love to see it in the standard library, but until
then.. :)

--- Pascal <pascal.parent at free.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
> How can I do to simulate this way:
> 'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
> I tried with a 'slice' but this didn't run:
> [item for item in 'aabbcc'[::2]] -> ['a', 'b', 'c']
> Thanks.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From bad_addy at no_domain.com  Thu Mar 25 18:59:12 2004
From: bad_addy at no_domain.com (Tina)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:59:12 GMT
Subject: Inheriting Classes Across Files
References: <E6K8c.748$Dv2.185@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1066rp8nj7al3e1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <knK8c.1076$lt2.68@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

I tried that as I understand it. I'm sure I'm making a silly error in all
this. Here is a simple example of what I'm trying:

  --- (File super_class.py) ---

class base_class:

  def sample():
    return "Returned!"

  --- (File sub_class.py) ---

import super_class

class derived_class(base_class):

  def sample2():
    return "Returned Twice!"
  
 --- (End) ---

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/tina/python/test/sub_class.py", line 3, in -toplevel-
    class derived_class(base_class):
NameError: name 'base_class' is not defined


John Roth wrote:

> 
> "Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
> news:E6K8c.748$Dv2.185 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> In my program I need derived classes to inherit from the super class.
>>
>> I can do this but I'd like to split the super class into it's own file.
>>
>> How do you do this? When I split the code I start getting errors.
> 
> The module with the superclass has to be imported before
> the subclass is defined.
> 
> Be very careful you don't get into an import loop.
> That way lies madness.
> 
> John Roth
>>



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 05:14:29 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:14:29 +0100
Subject: In what python release was this introduced..
References: <74dd441a.0403220126.12ec063f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyf4qsh6vei.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

htgk at mail.com (Moe A) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> i need to list dependencies for my package & was wondering in what
> python release could you start making 'in <string>' calls with more
> than one char..eg:
> 
> "JESUS" in bible
> 
> instead of
> 
> "J" in bible

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Feb  8 2003, 12:11:31) 
[GCC 3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'def' in 'abcdefghij'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>>> 


Python 2.3.3 (#1, Jan 16 2004, 15:07:34) 
[GCC 3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'def' in 'abcdefghij'
True
>>> 


From idbaxter at semdesigns.com  Sat Mar  6 10:04:38 2004
From: idbaxter at semdesigns.com (Ira Baxter)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:04:38 -0600
Subject: Ast tree and python code
References: <c25e3r$2052$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <4049e7e6$9@giga.realtime.net>

"Yermat" <loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net> wrote in message
news:c25e3r$2052$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> Does someone know how I can reverse an AST tree back into python code
> with few modification ?
> What I want to do is to complete trees before writing them back but in a
> way not to far from the original code ? Especially, indentation, line
> return, etc.
>
> Of course, I could program it myself but if someone already done it...

If you insist on doing this in Python, I don't have any help.

Otherwise, if you want to carry out arbitrary transforms on Python code,
you might be interested in the DMS Software Reengineering Toolkit.
It parses many languages (including Python) into a language
specific AST, can carry out source-to-source transformations
on those trees, and can then prettyprint source text from
those tree.   It retains comments, indentation, the
format of numbers, you name it.

See http://www.semanticdesigns.com/Products/DMS/DMSToolkit.html.


-- 
Ira D. Baxter, Ph.D., CTO   512-250-1018
Semantic Designs, Inc.      www.semdesigns.com




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From peter at semantico.com  Thu Mar 11 09:50:57 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:50:57 +0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> If you believe as I do that Python is not yet the ultimate language,
> and some syntactical changes are still to come, then it seems like
> using a very distinct symbol like @ may have some merits.

If what motivates you is the 'ultimate language' and think you can get 
closer to it by adding special characters then you are going to be very 
disappointed. The history of computing is littered with 'ultimate 
languages' that have had much more thought put into them than adding 
special characters to an existing language (C++ comes to mind) and they 
all have in common the fact that they failed.

To be fair C++ was never touted as an 'ultimate language' but you get 
the picture.

If you feel python has a significant flaw then say what it is and how 
you believe it would best be addressed. Using @ as a special character 
is just adding sugar to the syntax.

Maybe what we need is a language that has only a grammer and the syntax 
/ vocabulary comes from the objects. Or is that AppleScript?


From mpyle at legato.com  Wed Mar 31 17:13:43 2004
From: mpyle at legato.com (Michael Pyle)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:13:43 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B09B028B8@pa-mail1.legato.com>

> Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message 
> news:<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> > In article <69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f at posting.google.com>, has 
> > wrote:
> > > # Library pseudocode
> > > 
> > > _fooRegistry = []
> > > 
> > > obj _Foo: # prototype object
> > >     # Foo's code goes here
> > > 
> > > def Foo(): # constructor function
> > >     newFoo = _Foo.copy()
> > >     _fooRegistry.append(newFoo)
> > >     return newFoo
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dirt simple with not an ounce of class metaprogramming in sight.
> > 

So....when I ask the object returned from Foo() what its type is, what do I
get? Or is this something that doesn't really have much meaning in a
prototype based language?

--mike
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From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 06:44:27 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:44:27 -0800
Subject: python & mysql probelm
In-Reply-To: <c4e9jf$2gq8i4$1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.460.1080336449.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c4e9jf$2gq8i4$1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <406AAF1B.6010205@mlug.missouri.edu>


> But why not use a genuine parametrized query:
>
> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid "
>                "between %s and %s", (id1, id2))
>
> Especially if you need to execute the same query several times with 
> changing parameters this is faster as far as I know, because the query 
> is prepared once. 

Really? I have wondered what the difference was. Is there any other 
difference in doing it this way rather than with string substitution?



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 17:46:28 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:46:28 -0700
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <404CA5D1.6080706@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <c2it44$gq4$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Miki Tebeka wrote:


> I've installed IPython 0.5.0 with `python setup.py install'
> then:

[snip]

I hope you also end up using/enjoying it :)

> Maybe upgrade your cygwin? My dll version is 1.5.7-1
> (run `cygcheck -s | egrep "^cygwin"' to find your version)
> 
> HTH.
> Miki

Many thanks, I passed your message along to the user with the problem. 
However, even if this fixes it, the difference in behavior between ipython and
python troubles me.  I'd like to understand why they do different things in
this case.

Best regards, and thanks again for taking the time to set things up for a test.

Fernando


From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Mar 25 14:46:45 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:46:45 GMT
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
	<4062EF99.1050802@zope.com> <fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net>
	<4062F88C.40200@zope.com>
	<mailman.405.1080228996.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc66c3p.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.405.1080228996.742.python-list at python.org>, Thomas Heller wrote:
> BTW, how would you specify base classes for ICustomer?
> 
>     ICustomer = Interface(class, IBaseInterface):
>         def get_id():
>             """Return the customer ID"""

Oh, right, that points up another inconsistency in the syntax I wanted
to point out: it really should be

    ICustomer = Interface(class:
        def get_id():
            """Return the customer ID"""
             pass
    )

Otherwise, how do we pass multiple to the function?

    PairOfClasses = Interfaces(class: pass, class: pass)

The PEP318 decorators doesn't support this, of course, but it doesn't
pretend to.  This syntax looks like just a regular function call which
should allow multiple parameters, though.

You could say that only the last parameter of a function call can be a
def or class expression, which then gets bound to the next definiton
found.  But what about

    if (class):

That's an expression too.  Does the : bind to the embedded class or the
if?

Can of worms.

In a C-delimeted language, embedding a large {...} sequence inside a
function call would be awkward, but not deadly.  Here, I think Python's
delimiting has defeated you.

Joe


From whisper at oz.net  Thu Mar  4 20:09:13 2004
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:09:13 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
In-Reply-To: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFKEDAECAA.whisper@oz.net>

 
> Hello, all,
> 
> I am new to Python.
> 
> I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and write only
> those between the tags to a text file.  In other words, if I have an
> XML document like so:
> 
> <tag1>This</tag1>
>     <tag2>is</tag2>
>        <tag3>a</tag3>
> <tag1>test</tag1>
> 
> I need to write "This is a test" to a text file.  How do I achieve
> this?    Thanks.

PyXML would be a perfect solution - and easy too.

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA



From hugh-m at moving-picture.com  Tue Mar 30 11:37:54 2004
From: hugh-m at moving-picture.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:37:54 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.30.18.21.54.259563@cut.me.sideralis.net>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.116.1080653744.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.03.30.18.21.54.259563@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <20040330173754.7624261d.hugh-m@moving-picture.com>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:21:58 +0200
Riccardo Attilio Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote:


> >> > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> Is this Linux only ? 
> >> (pardon my terrible ignorance...)
> > 
> > Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...
> 
> It's false.
> I'm developping a gtk program which run in both linux and windows.

Sorry - when I answered the original question I thought he was asking if I was developing for Linux only... looking back, I have no idea why I got that idea....

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From JimJJewett at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 14:39:05 2004
From: JimJJewett at yahoo.com (Jim Jewett)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 11:39:05 -0800
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cab22418.0403231139.39085891@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg at 4ax.com>...

> ... if decorators really catch on, there could be cases where
> they are applied repeatedly to many functions, and
> possibly with many decorators.  

> ... [Could we move the redundant lists to a single preamble]
> how about...
 
> def [staticmethod, ...] :
>     #  could use alternate keyword such as 'decorate'

>     def a (a1, a2) :
>         "this function is decorated"
>         ...

>     def b (b1, b2) :
>         "this function is also decorated"
>         ...
 
> def c (c1, c2) :
>     "this function is _not_ decorated"
>     ...

This was soundly rejected.  I liked the idea myself, until
Phillip Eby explained what I was missing.

In python, 

    block_starter:
        indented_code1
        indented_code2

implies something about the how the *indented* code will be run.
It may get skipped (if/else), repeated (for/while) or delayed
(class, def), but it will definately do something strange.

With decorators, the function definition itself is normal (and
therefore should not be indented); it is the decorators that
run at an unexpected time.

using:
    decorator1
    decorator2
    decorator3
def a (args):
    pass

may still be an option, but it doesn't answer your request for a
*single* preamble.  I agree that creating a lambda *just* to bundle
the decorators is ugly, but if you really have a large number of
decorators that always go together ... maybe there is a good name
for the collection.

-jJ


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Tue Mar 16 15:47:48 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 12:47:48 -0800
Subject: Swig-Python problems
References: <cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ddc19db7.0403161247.1bdd88b4@posting.google.com>

m.finardi at itia.cnr.it (matteo) wrote in message news:<cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi, I've got a problem with SWIG and Python2.2.I've installed the
> SWIG1.3.21 releaseunder QNX6.2 platform .I tried to make the exemple
> example.c (in the directory ../Swig/Exemple/python/simple)
> /* File : example.c */
>  
>  #include <time.h>
>  double My_variable = 3.0;
>  
>  int fact(int n) {
>      if (n <= 1) return 1;
>      else return n*fact(n-1);
>  }
>  
>  int my_mod(int x, int y) {
>      return (x%y);
>  }
>  	
>  char *get_time()
>  {
>      time_t ltime;
>      time(&ltime);
>      return ctime(&ltime);
>  }.
> After the commans:
> 
>  swig -python example.i
>  gcc -c example.c example_wrap.c -I/usr/local/python2.2

   At first ... please use qcc and not gcc.

   qcc -c -fPIC example.c example_wrap.c -I/usr/local/python2.2

   should work ...

>  ld -shared example.o example_wrap.o -o _example.so 
> 
>  I use Python module as follows
> 
>  >>> import example
> 
> and I've got the message: "Memory falut (core dumped)"
> What can I do??

  ... use Pyrex :)

  Armin Steinhoff


From dont_reply_here at somewhere.net  Thu Mar  4 15:47:07 2004
From: dont_reply_here at somewhere.net (John Clayton)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:47:07 +0000
Subject: Howl & ZeroConf
References: <2004030419430275249%thisaddresswontwork@nowherenet>
	<mailman.7.1078429796.679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2004030420470763887%dontreplyhere@somewherenet>

On 2004-03-04 19:49:47 +0000, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> said:

> 
>     John> Has there been any discussion / planning of integrating howl as an
>     John> external module into Python?
> 
> Not that I'm aware of.  What's howl?
> 
> Skip

It's a cross platform impl of zeroconf (aka Rendezvous in Apple parlance)



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 03:34:05 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:34:05 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <0001HW.BC7FDC4D003B1D7CF0284600@netnews.comcast.net>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
	<c2sqva$dp0$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<0001HW.BC7FDC4D003B1D7CF0284600@netnews.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <c3ebfj$p04$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>Personally, I find most standard IDEs to be bloated pieces of shit. 
>>When did it become reasonable to need 100+ megs to edit source code?
> 
> Not all IDEs are this large.  For instance, Apple's Project Builder
> (version 2.1) is 2.6 MB, while the Mac version of CodeWarrior Pro 8 is
> 9.9 MB.  These sizes are just the executables, and don't include
> compilers, linkers, libraries, headers, documentation and examples.  But
> you would need all these things for a command line based development
> environment.

I never said /all/, I said /most/.

In the same vein as your reply, a standard Python install is somewhere 
around 30 megs and includes Idle (not quite an IDE, but it gets the job 
done).  DJGPP (a c/c++ compiler for dos) is also around 30 megs 
installed, and includes an IDE, compiler, linker, libaries, headers, etc.

However, if we were to take a look at some standard tools that current 
university students and even a measurable portion of industry 
professionals use; Eclipse, MS Visual Studio, and others, you'll note 
the tendency of bloat.

  - Josiah


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 12 11:02:47 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 17:02:47 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<tyfbrn25ilm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<33bd6435fb366a01954fafca8a8f34e3@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <tyf7jxq59zs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> writes:

> On 12 Mar 2004 13:56:53 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
> <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

> >Just what do you understand "static typing" to mean ?
> Doesn't that usually mean typing with a high noise-to-signal ratio?

What, you mean like this:

    std::list<std::pair<int, std::string> > l;
    l.push_back(std::pair<int, std::string>(1,"hello"));

as opposed to

    l = [(1, 'hello')]

?

I like your definition :-)


From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar 27 07:57:05 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:57:05 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-2A7F76.07570527032004@reader1.panix.com>

"Jon Franz" <jfranz at neurokode.com> wrote:
> What I found interesting was:
>  - the stackless-ness

What does stacklessness do for me as an application programmer?


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar 13 02:07:50 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:07:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyfy8q63trv.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040313070750.53383.qmail@web8309.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
wrote: > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
writes:
> 
> > Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:
> > 
> > > Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> > > > How do I force static typing in Python?
> > > 
> > > You have to enforce it by code instead of
> declaration, i.e. you
> > > have to do runtime type checking.
> > 
> > Just what do you understand "static typing" to
> mean ?
> 
> I ask because I am prepared to accept that you have
> a different
> working definition of "static typing" from mine, but
> people who
> actually want static typing typically want it
> because they think it
> gives them the following advantages:
> 
> a) type errors caught at compile time,
> 
> b) faster program exectution.
> 
> The code you showed:
> 
> > > class doesTypeChecking:
> > >      def __init__(self):
> > >          self.__dict__["aString"] = ""
> > >          self.__dict__["aFloat"] = 0.0
> > > 
> > >      def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
> > >          if type(self.__dict__[attr]) !=
> type(value):
> > >              raise ValueError, "Type mismatch
> for attribute %s\n" % attr
> 
> will catch no type errors at compile time, and will
> slow down
> execution, so I suspect that Premshree will be
> disapponinted with it.
> 
> 
> (BTW, my definition of "static typing" is "type
> checking is done at
> compile time" ... your example really looks like
> dynamic typing to
> me ... albeit with some restrictions on attribute
> types.)
> 
> 
> Premshree: Python is dynamically typed. There is no
> way to enforce
>            static typing. There is something called
> "pychecker" which
>            might be of some help to you. Why do you
> think that you
>            want static typing in Python ?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is there
something like it in Python?

Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
important requirement in a language?

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Wed Mar  3 04:50:56 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:50:56 +0100
Subject: Impersonation
In-Reply-To: <slrnc4ba2e.jbl.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>
References: <slrnc4ba2e.jbl.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>
Message-ID: <c249q1$nd0$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Vedran Furac wrote:

> ..and this runs the program but not as a target user. Program is started just
> normal as it would be without impersonation. Any idea why?

IIRC, the 'current' user has to be an administrator or have some special 
security privileges (backup operator?) to be allowed to impersonate 
other users.



From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 26 13:43:54 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:43:54 -0700
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000, Peter Hickman
<peter at semantico.com> wrote:

>Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like' 
>language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
>
>Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what 
>makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define 
>scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed 
>from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.

Very interesting ...

Quoting from Prothon's home page:
'''
Over time capabilities have been added to the core Python language,
... and Python has became loaded with features, some quite complex.
'''

So all they need is an automatic translation from Python to Prothon,
then they can grab all of Python's libraries, and bypass ten years of
development. :>)

We really need in Python a clear separation of advanced features from
the basic syntax.  No more lambda calculus in the basic part. :>)

-- Dave



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar 13 03:47:56 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:47:56 +0100
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
References: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <c2uhrs$njp$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Kenneth McDonald wrote:

> Now that I'm back to Python and all the new (to me) cool features,
> I find I'm using properties a lot, i.e. I'm defining:
> 
> foo = property(fset=..., fget=...)
> 
> for a number of properties, in many of my classes. I'm not using
> them for anything performance critical yet, but could see myself
> doing so in the future. Can anyone comment on the performance
> costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?

It seems I'm becoming obsessed with timeit.py :-)

<property.py>
class Test(object):
    def getvalue(self):
        return self._value
    value = property(getvalue)

t = Test()
t._value = 123
</property.py>

$ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t._value"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.207 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t.getvalue()"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.918 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t.value"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.03 usec per loop

Roughly factor five, most of the time being consumed by the implied function
call.

Peter


From andersjm at inbound.dk  Wed Mar 24 16:50:40 2004
From: andersjm at inbound.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:50:40 +0100
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406203c0$0$208$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> "Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> > Ick! Having passed through PEP 308, I just prefer directly agree with
> Guido's
> > decision without any votation at all ;)
>
> Half of the 308 problem was because Guido wasn't willing to make a
decision.
>
> The other half was the voting method used.

The third half of the problem was the people got wound up about
details in the voting system.  Details that would have been relevant
in a winner-takes-all vote, but were less than interesting in a
BDFL-guidance-vote.

- Anders





From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar  6 13:57:27 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:57:27 -0800
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.46.1078541818.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.46.1078541818.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2d741$m3t$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Note that I've only lightly tested that code, and it's probably very
> inefficient.

It is all right except for the string addition.  Each addition produces 
a new string.  For a final string of length n, you will have created n 
strings, and had to write n*(n-1)/2 = O(n^2) bytes. Ick.

For long sentences (more than 1000 characters, the timing difference 
becomes significant), the below is far faster:

def sentences(iterable):
     sentence = []
     for char in iterable:
         sentence.append(char)
         if char in ('.', '!', '?'):
             yield ''.join(sentence).strip()
             sentence = []
     sentence = ''.join(sentence).strip()
     if sentence:
         yield sentence


  - Josiah


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 17:32:39 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:32:39 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>
	<du73c7r7tub.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <Ut1ac.64446$cx5.43515@fed1read04>

> I would guesstimate that the tab indentation mostly serves to
> kill the interest of many who would otherwise take a deeper
> look.

Prothon has announced that we are caving in and going to spaces instead of
tabs, even though both of the Prothon authors abhor spaces.

"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:du73c7r7tub.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi...
> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> writes:
>
>     Mark> I certain that it IS possible to add ANYTHING to Python.  My
>     Mark> whole motivation for Prothon was to start fresh with a clean
>     Mark> slate and have less.  I'm still experimenting with things
>     Mark> that can be removed.
>
> I guess the issue is whether it would have been simpler to fork the
> CPython interpreter, providing patches that enable the prototype-based
> programming. It would have been quite a jump start, if feasible.
>
>     Mark> Having said that, I think there are things about Prothon
>     Mark> that really kick ass.  The combination of threaded
>     Mark> interpreter with extremely simple locking objects is
>     Mark> exceeding my expectations.  This engine is really going to
>     Mark> shine when it matures.
>
> Sounds great. If you prove that it's the faster approach, perhaps
> we'll be seeing something like that in CPython soon.
>
> FWIW, I would guesstimate that the tab indentation mostly serves to
> kill the interest of many who would otherwise take a deeper
> look. There are many (like me) who think that the approach is
> fundamentally wrong.
>
> -- 
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb




From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar  9 16:04:13 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:04:13 -0700
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hjas40d3l4dse804uuvnjuk2str8aio2na@4ax.com>

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:57:29 -0800, Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net>
wrote:

>This is just a trial balloon. It isn't even in proper PEP format yet. 
>Don't take it too personally!
>
>Pre-pep for a show() built-in function.
>
>	This pre-PEP describes a replacement for the Python print
>	statement.  Obviously the replacement of such a popular
>	statement will take time and cause dislocation. It must
>	therefore be done very gradually and carefully.  Nevertheless,
>	the print statement stands out in Python because of its
>	quirky syntax and semantics. This PEP proposes to migrate
>	the print statement towards standardized function syntax.

At this point, my initial reaction was "no way".  After reading the
rest of the proposal, I say "yes".  Your arguments are very
convincing.

>Problems with "print"
>
>	New users are constantly asking how to print elements without
>	trailing whitespace.

And the answer is easy, but not obvious to a beginner, and also
something beginners tend to resist, as if having once been spoiled on
a print statement without parens, it is now too much work to type 
printX( ... )

This to me, is the most powerful argument.

>	The use of a trailing comma to disable newline has no clear
>	relation to any other syntax elsewhere in Python.
>
>	The cheveron syntax is similarly unique.

Both good points.

>	"print" is the one of only two statement-generating keywords
>	that is not a flow-control or scope-control operator.

Don't care.  I have never thought about the underlying 'nature' of
these statements, and I wouldn't fault a language for this.

>	Because print is a statement, it cannot be used in contexts
>	like list comprehensions and lambda functions.

I've hit this snag.

>	The word "print" is very common in English usage and would be
>	very useful for method and function names. It is  a (very)
>	long-term goal of this PEP to free it up for this purpose.

Perhaps we could retain the deprecated form in a module to be accessed
with 
from __the_past__ import print      :>)

[ snip ]

>Proposed solution: "show"
>
>	I propose a new built-in function called "show". It can take an
>	arbitrary number of positional arguments and three optional
>	keyword arguments:
>	
>		* separator - string to use to separate the string
>		displays of the objects that are written. Defaults
>		to a single space.
>
>		* trailer - string that follows the string displays
>		of the objects that are written. Defaults to a
>		single newline.
>
>		* to - a file object to write the strings to. Defaults
>		to sys.stdout.
>
>	Some examples:
>
>		show(5)
>
>		show(5, to = sys.stderr)
>
>		show(5, 6, separator = ",")
>
>		show(5, 6, trailer = "\n\n")
>
>		show("Five", 5, "Six", 6)
>
>		show(show)

This is clearly the right way to re-write an old function, extending
the options, but preserving the old behavior as a default.  I would
like to do the same with some of the convenience functions in the
os.path module (exists, isfile, isdir).  Convenience is fine, but
don't hide the primitives.

>Possible Extensions
>
>	Debug-useful return value
>
[ snip ]
>		x = show(j[x]).y(a[x])

This would be very handy.

Go for it !!

-- Dave



From ciw42 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  2 19:17:34 2004
From: ciw42 at hotmail.com (ciw42)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 16:17:34 -0800
Subject: Lua Book
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
	<du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<1049gqe9n762hf6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <75a58466.0403021617.7f765581@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<1049gqe9n762hf6 at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list at python.org>,
> Pete Shinners  <pete at shinners.org> wrote:
> >Cameron Laird wrote:
> >> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua?  Look at
> >> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.
> >
> >I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples from the book 
> >may frighten me away for good.
> >
> >http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html
> >
> >
> >
> >I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather trivial.
> >
> >def allwords():
> >     for line in sys.stdin:
> >         for word in line.split():
> >             yield word
> >
> >for word in allwords():
> >     print word
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Provocative comparison; perhaps Roberto will even join in
> and comment here.  In any case, there's still a place for
> Lua, and I think there's value in the discussion of Lua
> that comp.lang.python has already hosted.

Ordered a copy of the Lua book as the language seemed quite
interesting and potentially useful. The full text was available on the
'net, but I like to read this sort of material whilst travelling.

Although it starts out describing quite a nicely structured language
(occasionally similar in concept to, but never as readable as Python)
as the book proceeds, the more in-depth examples become harder to read
(a lot more like Perl) and having finished the book I was left feeling
that the core language offered nothing useful over Python, in fact it
was rather lacking in many areas.

Don't get me wrong, I know if I had a good enough reason I could quite
quicky and reasonably happily start developing in Lua, but it's
unlikely to ever come close to Python for general purpose coding. That
said, it may well fit the bill for a new embedded low-spec PC-based
device we'll be starting development on in a few months time. The
Python runtime is just too big and this is one area where Lua wins
out, so we'll just have to wait and see.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Mar 27 22:45:32 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:45:32 GMT
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc6cgt9.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg at centurytel.net>, Ed Suominen wrote:
> I think it would be cool for my "AutoText" class (see below, hereby GPL'd)
> to be able to tell what subclasses inherit from it and instantiate objects
> for all of those subclasses to implement a "AutoAll" function.. Any ideas?

Check out http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/python/meta1.html and
http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/python/meta2.html.  It's advanced,
but it'll do what you want.

I just used your question as an example in the "Prothon Prototypes vs
Python Classes" thread, including the actual metaclass that'll do what
you want.  Here it is again:

    autoall = []
    def AutoAll():
        l = []
        for i in autoall:
            l.append(i())
        return l

    class AutoRegister(type):
        def __init__(klass, name, bases, dict):
            autoall.append(klass)

Then just add the line "__metaclass__ = AutoRegister" to your AutoText
definition, and all its subclasses will automatically inherit it.

> I have all of 3 days experience with OOP and Python, so please bear with me. 

Might be a little early for metaclasses, then...

Joe


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  3 09:23:22 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:23:22 -0600
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403030526.728de57b@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403030526.728de57b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16453.59994.314114.784746@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michele> I have got today a very similar message, but from my University provider.

We got it here at Northwestern (same form, personalized for the Northwestern
community).  The central group that worries mightily about this stuff has
sent out several alerts about it.

    Michele> Fortunately, I got suspicious when I was asked to run an
    Michele> executable and I asked to the University before. It is a very
    Michele> subtle virus!

This is social engineering at its best (or worst, depending on your
perspective).  I suspect it has been very effective for the perpetrators.

Skip



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  4 14:49:47 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:49:47 -0600
Subject: Howl & ZeroConf
In-Reply-To: <2004030419430275249%thisaddresswontwork@nowherenet>
References: <2004030419430275249%thisaddresswontwork@nowherenet>
Message-ID: <16455.34907.488510.740799@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    John> Has there been any discussion / planning of integrating howl as an
    John> external module into Python?

Not that I'm aware of.  What's howl?

Skip



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 23 10:42:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:42:37 -0600
Subject: how to "touch" a file
In-Reply-To: <m28yhreo1z.fsf@bella.local>
References: <m28yhreo1z.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <20040323154237.GF24314@unpythonic.net>

I think that "touch -m" works like this function, by using stat to get
the atime, then setting an identical atime and new mtime with utime.

def set_mtime(fn, mtime=None):
    if mtime is None: mtime = time.time()
    atime = os.stat(fn).st_atime
    os.utime(fn, (atime, mtime))

Jeff



From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Mar  4 02:04:09 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:04:09 +0100
Subject: MVC-type Framework in Python
References: <mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c26kd7$suu$1@newshispeed.ch>

I never felt comfortable with MVC. Since I read Holub's articles on
JavaWorld, I know how to do it *much* better. And to implement the concepts
shown there in Python is a breeze.

HTH
Franz GEIGER

P.S.: Don't have the URLs handy right now. Tell me if you can't find the
stuff. I'll then look for the URLs.

"Andreas Pauley" <python-list at qbcon.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in finding a nice way to develop applications that have
> their business logic separated from the user interface (among other
> things). This should enable easier maintenance, more flexibility and
> (ideally) less development time for the app.
>
> I've recently read about the Model-View-Controller design framework
> (originally used in SmallTalk applications, or so it seems).
> What python-specific tools/frameworks would you recommend that can be used
> to implement MVC, or something similar (or perhaps better) than MVC?
>
> I'm looking for something that can help build
> interface-independent applications, with all logic in a central place.
> There would typically be a GUI interface, character interface and
> web-based interface, all accessing the same python logic.
> The interfaces need not be python-specific. I would like, for example, to
> have an existing PHP website access the same logic.
>
> Another thing that would be nice is centralized validation.
> If you change your validation rules in one place, the interfaces get to
> know that without you having to change code on the interface.
> Is it feasible to have python extract validation rules from the database
> (e.g. a varchar(20) field) and pass that through to a gui interface that
> would limit the amount of characters entered to 20? If you then change the
> database field to a varchar(30), the change should be
> detected without having to change any other code.
>
> At the moment I'm just researching all of the different options for
> designing/implementing applications (typically multi-user database-driven
> apps), so I would appreciate any ideas. I assume some ideas have proven
> themselves more feasible in production environments than others.
>
> Regards,
> Andreas.
>
>




From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 20:23:22 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:23:22 -0800
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
	<rqq8c.41431$Bg.29453@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <6wq8c.41433$Bg.18366@fed1read03>


"Amy G" <amy-g-art at cox.net> wrote in message
news:rqq8c.41431$Bg.29453 at fed1read03...
>   "Kenneth McDonald" <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote in message
> news:slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net...
> > For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
> > and then find out the following information about functions and
> > methods defined within it:
> >
> > 1) Parameter names and order
> > 2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
> > 3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
> > parameter list.
>
>
> I had thought of writing a mod for this kind of info too, but all I really
> needed was what help(<modname>) output.  However, it would me nice to have
> this functionality.
>
> >
> > Reading documentation about function objects, the only
> > relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
> > default param values, which is not useful to me.
> >
> > I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
> > I would strongly prefer a simpler way.
>
> You could parse the output of help(<modname>).  That would probably be
> easier than parsing the module itself.
>

This won't return their order however.  It is listed alphabetically.

> > I'd have thought that,
> > like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
> > would also be stored with function objects.
>
>  As far as I know this info is not strored.
>
>
>




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 10 20:08:36 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:08:36 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2o2hs$b5r$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <404FBC14.7F7EC705@alcyone.com>

Ivan Voras wrote:

> David MacQuigg wrote:
> 
> > syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
> > situations.  Examples:
> 
> No, don't do that!! I hate perl precisley because of littering the
> code
> with 'special characters'! The beauty of python code as it is, is that
> it reads like a book, with punctuation to help the reader, rather than
> the typesetter.

Further, @ and $ are already used by some Python meta-applications in
order to signal embedding Python code in something else, since these
symbols are not used in Python itself.  Templating systems often rely on
such symbols not being in the language and staying out.

But the Perlification of Python is the most relevant objection here.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ An ounce of hypocrisy is worth a pound of ambition.
    -- Michael Korda


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 18:16:22 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:16:22 -0800
Subject: How to use Sockets with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <c35daa$ka7$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>
	<c35daa$ka7$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c35dlp$ki9$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>         EVT_TIMER(self, self.timer.GetId(), self.SocketPoller)

Oops, should be:

         wx.EVT_TIMER(self, self.timer.GetId(), self.SocketPoller)


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Mar  6 10:34:10 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:34:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newby Question: Generic Database Object Interface Needed
References: <1Rc2c.2356$u92.1037@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<Zhl2c.2277$G3.18356@localhost>
	<ZPl2c.5625$u92.2809@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c2cr1i$1lp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

kbass <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> pisze:

> I have checked the database resources at the Python website and performed a
> Google search but I cannot find the information that I needed. I searched
> sourceforge and found  PDO: Python Database Objects  at
> http://pdo.neurokode.com/index.php . This seems to have the functionality
> that I need. Are there any other modules (or programs) that have the same
> functionality? I would like to do some comparisons.

SQLObject -- http://www.sqlobject.org/

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 10:42:47 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 07:42:47 -0800
Subject: Any reportlab user here??
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403220742.12943b9c@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am drawing a vertical barchart for project vs start date
The vertical bars are for projects.
Now, at the top of each bar I also want to display the number of
projects.
Also I want to show the color convention i.e
Say I have different bars for H.R projects,etc...
Now,if HR project bars are of blue colors then at the side of graph I
want to show a small rectangle of blue color with "H.R project" beside
it.
How should I do this?
Regards,
Ketul


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 19 03:35:56 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 09:35:56 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<ad052e5c.0403181324.31ea8a36@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfad2d8c9f.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) writes:

> One way to avoid this problem is to have an explicit scope-creating
> construct instead.
> 
> def foo(a):
>    scope outer:
>       a = 3
>       scope inner:
>          a = 4
>          print a            # prints 4
>          print outer.a      # prints 3
>          print foo.a        # prints the function parameter
>       print a               # inner.a is out of scope, so prints 3
>       foo.b = 5             # Creates a new function-scope variable.
>    print b                  # prints 5

I think that the elegance of nested scopes relies on the language
being able to find the innermost scope which contains the given name,
_without_ help from the programmer.

But this relies on being able to distinguish binding from re-binding.


From janssen at parc.com  Mon Mar  8 16:32:23 2004
From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:32:23 PST
Subject: distutils & Java components:  a JavaExtension for distutils?
Message-ID: <04Mar8.133226pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>

Hi!

I'm putting together a package that is primarily Python but includes
some Java components.  I'd like to write a single setup.py file for
the whole thing, instead of using Makefiles, but I don't see any way
to build Java jar files under distutils.  Has anyone developed a
module for handling this?  Perhaps something like JavaExtension?

Bill



From technoumena at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 23:22:39 2004
From: technoumena at yahoo.com (Technoumena)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:22:39 GMT
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
In-Reply-To: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <jOMac.150490$1p.1929895@attbi_s54>

> How can I do this?

Perhaps something like this:

import urllib2, thread, time, sys

thread_count = len(sys.argv) - 1
pages = []
lock = thread.allocate_lock()

def timer():
     global lock
     time.sleep(15)
     lock.release()

def get_page(url):
     global thread_count, pages, lock
     try: pages.append(urllib2.urlopen(url).read())
     except: pass
     thread_count -= 1
     if thread_count == 0:
         lock.release()

lock.acquire()
thread.start_new_thread(timer, ())
for url in sys.argv[1:]:
     thread.start_new_thread(get_page, (url,))
lock.acquire()
print '\n---xxx---\n'.join(pages)



Please have a nice day.

Regards,
Technoumena


From http  Thu Mar 18 01:17:12 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 22:17:12 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403170101.1a0a6452@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xk71iwufr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> Because SHA-1 is a digest function, additional input can be tacked on
> without impacting invertibility.  That gives you an opportunity to
> incorporate the Mersenne Twister to take advantage of its provably
> long period.

I don't see any point to including Mersenne Twister output in the SHA
update.  If you want to make sure of a long period, it's easier to
just mix in a simple counter.  Note that the generator I posted should
have period about 2**160 since in order to repeat, two different SHA
states would have to repeat simultaneously.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar 21 18:17:54 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:17:54 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3ki5j$28tkdb$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tdk1j1-ev9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Jon Perez wrote:
> Anyway, we can at least count on the fact that a .pyc compiled
> by a particular Python version (say, Python 2.1.1) on one platform
> (say, Mac), will run on another platform (say, Solaris) as long
> as the interpreter has the same minor version (say, Python 2.1.0).
>
> uh... right?

Nope.  They are an implementation specific thing.  The interpretter
puts version and other information in them, and regenerates them
on the fly.  There is nothing wrong with an interpretter deciding
to regenerate them every single day in a different format, or
based on the moon phase, or your login id or anything else.

Roger




From balajibalaraman2001 at yahoo.co.in  Sun Mar 28 18:22:33 2004
From: balajibalaraman2001 at yahoo.co.in (BALAJI RAMAN)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:22:33 -0000
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
Message-ID: <c47mnp+dot0@eGroups.com>

Hello everybody!!!

I'm pretty much new to this OOP...

I have a problem..

Here is a part of code that I'm writing

class V(E):
    """ This is a variable for MPY"""
    def __init__(self):
        print id(self)
        check=[]
        check.append(id(self))
        self.val = None

what I do is call say v1=V() so it means that v1 belongs to the 
variable class..

Again if I call v2=V() so now v2 also belong to this class.. I want 
to keep a track of all the instances of this class.. and store their 
ids in an array..

any help in this regards is appreciated...

Balaji 




From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 28 11:40:24 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:40:24 GMT
Subject: ZODB for beginners - the most simple example ?
References: <282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YdD9c.6378$hS3.450@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

I'd try the zope at zope.org group.

"Richard Shea" <richardshea at fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6 at posting.google.com...
> Hi - I'm trying to use ZODB but I'm having trouble getting started.
> Can anyone point me at a very simple example ?
>
> I've had a look at 'ZODB/ZEO Programming Guide'
> (http://zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node2.html) but although
> it's good stuff it's not clear to me how the pieces of example fit
> together to produce something that works.
>
> I've also read 'Introduction to the Zope Object Database'
>
(http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/fulton/zodb3.htm
l)
> which has good examples but they rely on a module called 'PTextIndex'
> which (as far as I can see) is not defined anywhere.
>
> So if anyone could point me at a very, very simple ZODB usage example
> I'd be very grateful (and I should just say that both of the above
> resources are very helpful so thanks to their authors).
>
> thanks
>
> Richard.




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 09:32:31 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 15:32:31 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<0vdb505qigqvp8eahhp5qubnuh1v7n7k61@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyfsmga2nb4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> writes:

> Is it (entirely) correct to say that class opens a new scope? I don't
> think so,

>>> class foo:
...     a = 3
...     def bar(self):
...         print a
... 
>>> f = foo()
>>> f.bar()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 4, in bar
NameError: global name 'a' is not defined

Bleargh! You are right. Now that you bring it up, I recall bumping up
against it before.

> since names bound within the class body become attributes of the
> class object, they are not local variables -- you can reach them
> from the outside.

That in itself does not prevent "class" from introducing a scope. It
just means that there are ways of getting at things in that scope
... just like here:

def foo():
    a = [3]
    def show():
        print a[0]
    def inc(n):
        a[0] += n
    return show, inc      

show, inc = foo()
show() # prints 3
inc(2)
show() # prints 5

"a" is definitely in the scope introduced by "foo", but you can reach
it from the outside.

> There were discussions about this in in the python dev list. The only
> proposal that stuck in my memory was an extension of the global
> keyword where you had an option of specifying the scope, something
> like:
> 
> def g(*args):
> 
>     x = None
> 
>     def f(*args):
>         global x in g

Hmmm ... the explicit naming of the scope sort of piddles all over the
elegance of nested scopes. But maybe the generality of being able to
specify *any* enclosing scope has some applications, though none come
to mind immediately.

OTOH:

   def g():
       x = None
       def g():
           x = None
           def g():
              global x in g

Just *which* g are we talking about ?

Let's just stick to finding the innermost binding of the name :-)

Of course, the name "global" is completely inappropriate, but I guess
they're trying to avoid a new keyword.


From fake at fake.net  Mon Mar  1 14:03:59 2004
From: fake at fake.net (Andrei)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:03:59 +0100
Subject: Skins for Python GUI !!
References: <5cc5bb23.0402292136.399c776a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wol2xgn0159f.dtugri0pueeu.dlg@40tude.net>

Somesh Bartakkay wrote on 29 Feb 2004 21:36:35 -0800:

> I recently seen a small GUI program with Skins allplied.
> the library used for that is Activeskin.
> i wanna know weather Any GUi-Skins are available for pythons GUI ?
> or how to use the activeskins for python gui(say ANy )??

I don't know any - don't like skins neither. PyUI
(http://pyui.sourceforge.net/) is the most non-standard UI I know. You
could also code your own in e.g. PyGame, but then it's still inside a
window I suppose. And presumably you could code for Windows using win32all
api calls, but I suspect that wouldn't be a lot of fun.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From mkur at poczta.gazeta.pl  Fri Mar 26 19:55:22 2004
From: mkur at poczta.gazeta.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Kurowski)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:55:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python-ldap and Sun ONE Directory server
Message-ID: <c42jdq$d5g$1@achot.icm.edu.pl>

Hi,

I'd like to ask you whether anyone have built python-ldap against
Sun ONE Directory v5.2 on a Solaris 9.

Seems developers do not support such config, but many places on the 
web suggest it *is* possible and I would be a major pitta if I had 
to kick out my Ldap server now ...

I've got python-ldap-2.0.0pre20 and use gcc 3.3.1.  It complains 
"ldap_schema.h" cannot be found - and in fact Sun does not have any
include file of that name.

I just hope it is actually possible ... 

-- 
Michal Kurowski
<mkur at poczta.gazeta.pl>


From sc0rp at hot.pl  Fri Mar 26 13:25:40 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:25:40 +0100
Subject: mod_python exception catching,
	other repetitious per-page actions
References: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <406475A4.5DCE359C@hot.pl>


"Karl A. Krueger" wrote:
> I'm in the middle of refactoring a small mod_python Web application,
> which uses the Publisher handler.

I have never used Publisher handler myself.  Yes, I've read about it,
but I've decided to not use it after seeing that I will have to
explicitly tell which modules/functions I DON'T want external user to
be able to run -  completely broken idea from security POV.

> One thing I would like to do is factor all of the top-level database
> connecting, top-level exception handling, and error-page generation into
> a single place.  Whenever an exception occurs not trapped locally --
> including an error connecting to the database -- I want to generate an
> HTML error page instead of throwing the stacktrace at the user.
[...]
> One thing I have considered is to handle _all_ the pages through a
> single function, which would look up the specific pages by name:

If you do this then you may as well drop Publisher handler completely. 
One handle() function will work for you.

> ... but this has the problem that it sacrifices the argument name
> matching which is a major useful feature of mod_python Publisher.

Not so big, as you need to validate arguments format anyway.  With calls
like this:
    pos = self.GetFsInt( 'posId' )
    lastDate = self.GetFsDate( 'lastDate' )
you can get arguments from FieldStorage, ensure that arguments are
present and convert them to usable format (e.g. string=>datetime.date). 
Some examples:

    def RaiseMangled( self ):
        raise apache.SERVER_RETURN, apache.HTTP_BAD_REQUEST

    def RaiseNotFound( self ):
        raise apache.SERVER_RETURN, apache.HTTP_NOT_FOUND

    def GetFsString( self, key, default=None ):
        if(default != None):
            if self.fs.has_key(key):
                value = self.fs[key]
            else:
                value = default
        else:
            value = self.fs[key]
        if not isinstance( value, str ):
            self.RaiseMangled()
        return value

    def GetFsInt( self, key ):
        try:
            return int( self.GetFsString(key,'') )
        except ValueError:
            self.RaiseMangled()

    def GetFsDate( self, key ):
        try:
            return Url2Date( self.GetFsString(key,'') )
        except ValueError:
            self.RaiseMangled()



I've used one method in class to handle db connections, dispatch
requests and handle errors:

    def handler( req ):
        h = Handler()
        return h.Handle( req )

   class Handler:
        [...]
        def Handle(req):
            try:
                db = DbAccess.ConnectDb( dbName, host, user )
                self.fs = util.FieldStorage( self.req, True )
                [...]
                self.req.add_common_vars()
                env = req.subprocess_env
                self.script = env['SCRIPT_NAME']
                self.cmd = self.script[ rfind(self.script,'/')+1: ]

                if   self.cmd == '':
                    self.HandleMenu( db )
                elif self.cmd == 'PosDailyFeed':
                    self.HandlePosDailyFeed( db )
                elif self.cmd == 'PosDailySubmit':
                    self.HandlePosDailySubmit( db )
                [...]
                else:
                    self.RaiseNotFound()
                [...]
            except:
                [...]

        # handler for urls like this:
        # /PosDailyFeed?posId=3&date=2004-03-22
        def HandlePosDailyFeed( self, db ):
            pos = self.GetFsInt( 'posId' )
            date = self.GetFsDate( 'date' )
            pb = self.CreatePageBuilder( db )
            valueDict = db.GetPosWorkerData( date, pos )
            BuildDailyFeedPage( pb, db, date, pos, valueDict,
                                String2Html(db.GetPosName(pos)) )
            self.SendPage( pb )


> I'm not sure if keyword args are exactly the Right Thing either.  It also
> would make the URLs even longer than they already are, though I can
> kludge that with Apache URL rewriting rules.  (Bleah.)

If you use straight handler() function instead of Publisher handler then
you have complete freedom how your URLs will look like.

Best regards,
Jacek.




From bob at redivi.com  Fri Mar  5 17:05:56 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:05:56 -0500
Subject: Module dependencies
References: <UN02c.1359$kc2.21736@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<Qi62c.406$OZ2.200@news02.roc.ny>
Message-ID: <2004030517055616807%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-05 16:29:20 -0500, Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> said:

> On 2004-03-05, Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> I was wondering, it there any common application to show direct and 
>> indirect dependencies of a module?  Something with html output like 
>> pydoc?
>> Thx and Regards,
>> Nicolas
> 
> 
> I suppose egrep will do an ok job for direct dependencies ...
> 
> egrep "^import" foo.py

There's also the modulefinder module, which scans bytecodes for import 
statements, but I don't believe it has any sort of nice html output.

-bob



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Mon Mar  8 17:42:57 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:42:57 GMT
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <2004030816344216807%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <slrnc4ptnh.v3n.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-03-08, Simon Willison <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
> I'm looking into building a simple one-way (announce only) mailing list 
> system. The system will bulk-send messages to lists of around 5,000 email 
> addresses. What's the most efficient way of delivering this kind of email 
> volume from a Python script? The script will be running on a dedicated 
> server with full access to sendmail etc.

    Install Mailman and make the list postable only by you.  :P

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From gstein at lyra.org  Thu Mar 25 08:24:25 2004
From: gstein at lyra.org (gstein at lyra.org)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:24:25 -0800
Subject: received your email
Message-ID: <200403251324.i2PDOPZ4025377@nebula.lyra.org>

Hi,

  [ Re: Re: Developement ]

I have received your email, but it may take a while to respond. I'm really
sorry to have to hook up this auto-responder, as it is so impersonal.
However, I get a lot of email every day and find it very difficult to keep
up with it. Please be patient while I try to get to your message.

Please feel free to resend your message if you think I've missed it.

I'll always respond to personal email first. If your email is regarding some
of the software that I work on (if you have questions, comments,
suggestions, etc), then please resend it to the appropriate mailing list:

    mod_dav      <mailto:dav-dev at lyra.org>
    WebDAV       <mailto:w3c-dist-auth at w3.org>
    ViewCVS      <mailto:viewcvs at lyra.org>
    Subversion   <mailto:dev at subversion.tigris.org>
    edna         <mailto:edna at lyra.org>

Thank you!

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From ruach at chpc.utah.edu  Thu Mar  4 14:50:32 2004
From: ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew Thorley)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:50:32 -0700
Subject: Redirecting stdout and stdin
Message-ID: <c281ap$2l5$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu>

I am working on a script that calls a program ssh in this case. The 
script needs to be non-interactive so I need python to comunicate with 
ssh. I am having difficult time opening a pipe to the program and 
reading and writing output to it. I tried using popen something like:

ssh = popen('ssh user at host')
if ssh[1].readline = 'something':
	ssh[0].write('password')

Etc...


But everytime I run the thing stdout still shows up on the command line 
and I get propmted to enter the password interactively.

Any thoughts ?

thanks much
-matthew


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar  1 17:18:07 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:18:07 +1100
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE013E66FE@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Peter Otten
> 
> Not particular frequent, but anyway:
> 
> >>> sample = [[1,2], (3,4)]
> >>> copies = [seq.__class__(seq) for seq in sample]
> >>> for s, c in zip(sample, copies):
> ...     if s is c: print s
> ...
> (3, 4)
> 
> Assuming all immutable classes are "smart enough":

That's a *very* big assumption - one I would never make.

It is explicitly stated that immutable objects *may* be reused. For some functions and methods, it states that they *will* be reused in certain situations. Only in those cases can or should you rely on that behaviour.

Tim Delaney



From happ_dickson at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  2 18:24:52 2004
From: happ_dickson at yahoo.ca (b0x)
Date: Tue,  2 Mar 2004 17:24:52 -0600
Subject: HOWTO: Python 2.3 on Fedora Core 1 Linux
References: <pan.2003.11.26.02.51.36.170640@phreaker.nospam>
Message-ID: <8169b602ffb91e592c69bbc1888a7f39@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

hey, thx alot for this topic,i had so many problems in installing tkinter , google didnt help me this time, but your toipc did :0) ..




From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Tue Mar 16 19:10:14 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:10:14 GMT
Subject: Dictionary & data
References: <mqK5c.22047$8G2.9439@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<1079475979.24696.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <GHM5c.14874$P45.3829@fe1.columbus.rr.com>


"Garry Knight" <garryknight at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1079475979.24696.0 at lotis.uk.clara.net...
| In message <mqK5c.22047$8G2.9439 at fe3.columbus.rr.com>, kbass wrote:
|
| > I have retrieved data from a database and I want to place this data into
a
| > dictionary or something like a HashMap (in Java).  Can someone point me
to
| > an example?
|
| Here's most of what you'll need to handle dictionaries:
|
| d1 = {}                         # create empty dictionary
| d2 = {"one": 1, "two": "two", 3: "three"} # create and populate dictionary
| d3 = {1: 'spam', {'a': 'b'}}    # nesting
| d2["two"] = 42                  # adding, changing
| d3[1]['a'] = 'c'                # changing value in nested dictionary
| x = d2['two']                   # fetch using index
| y = d3[1]['a']                  # fetch from nested dictionaries
| cnt = len(d2)                   # get no. of key/value pairs
| del d2[3]                       # remove key/value
| for k in d2.keys():             # loop over keys
| for v in d2.values():           # loop over values
| for k,v in d2.items():          # loop over key/value pairs
| d = d2.keys; d.sort()           # get sorted list of keys
|
| It's probably a good idea to work your way through the tutorial here:
| http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/tut/tut.html
|
| -- 
| Garry Knight
| garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
| Linux registered user 182025


Thanks for the information. At least you weren't rude about it.

kbass




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 25 18:45:08 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:45:08 -0700
Subject: Special symbols again (was Re: The problem with "as") 
References: <du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<slrnc630qv.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<7n34609f4t6uueb79aia3km2pm68orh0u6@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6480p.4lj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <irm6609red1ta0r1qmv7e2g4ihojcfveov@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:24:34 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

>In article <7n34609f4t6uueb79aia3km2pm68orh0u6 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg wrote:

>> By "modified syntax" I mean an extension of the current standard
>> syntax, e.g. the "decorators" we are now considering adding to the
>> current standard function definition syntax, or the extra "arguments"
>> we were discussing for the print statement.
>
>Why is the current standard priveleged?  A few years down the road, half
>of the basic functionality of the language will have special symbols in
>front of it, just because it was proposed after an arbitrary date.  The
>symbol wouldn't tell anything about the features it's attached to except
>the relatively uninteresting fact of when they were added to the
>language.

The key distinction is "basic" syntax vs "extensions".  Every language
has to make tradeoffs - doing everything possible and satisfying every
special need vs. keeping things simple but more laborious for advanced
users.  Things generally start simple, then as experience accumulates,
more stuff gets added.  Thus the correlation with date you have
noticed.

My guess is that Python has maybe a dozen or so significant
"extensions" still to be added to the basic syntax.  Even if it is
"half the functionality" still to come, as you envision, it won't be
the basic half, which is already in place.

Interestingly, my argument for a consistent extension syntax is
*stronger* the more numerous we assume these extensions will be.
Imagine a hundred new extensions, with mystifying names like 'lambda',
or 'staticmethod', each with a different syntax, all woven into the
basic syntax of the language.  This would be a nightmare for new users
and those who can't spend a lot of time staying proficient.

Someone asked me in another discussion to name one feature that would
justify adding a symbol to the language.  My answer was - I can't
imagine any single new feature that would be worth the cost of adding
a symbol.  It only makes sense if the symbol is used in enough places
that it acquires a benefit for non-expert users - that benefit being a
clear signal that "This is an extension syntax.  You can probably
understand this statement by ingoring the extension.  You don't have
to learn it in your first use of the language."

With a good extension syntax, the tradeoffs will be easier.  We can
satisfy more advanced requests, while not burdening the basic user.


>> "Second class" has negative connotations.  A better description would
>
>Yes, I used it deliberately.  Singling out syntax as non-basic makes it
>second class.  What if you predict wrong?  What if it catches on like
>wildfire and gets taught in Day 2 of every class?  Now your symbol has
>no meaning at all, because it's part of what everybody considers basic.

We have to assume that the developers, guided by our wonderful
discussions, will make the right choices as to what is basic and what
is not.  These decisions are made all the time in setting up defaults
for a module, chosing the most needed options in a print statement,
etc.

If it turns out that static methods become more popular than basic
methods, we have the same problem as chosing the wrong defaults in a
new module.  The fact that it *might* happen is not a good argument
that we shouldn't even *try* to make a sensible choice.  Presenting
all choices as being equal is *guaranteed* to be wrong.


>Yep, I recall you bringing this up at the time and not convincing
>anybody.

I'm glad Python development is guided by reason, not popular vote.
And I do appreciate your willingness to engage in reasoned discussion.


>> The key design goal is to *mimimize* the number of syntactic
>> variations we have to introduce as we extend the language.  The
>> proposed @() syntax seems like it would work in *many* places, and it
>> always has the same general meaning -- "This is a modification of the
>> basic syntax you already understand."  To learn the details of a
>
>That's a meaning that's too general to be of any use.  If the new syntax
>is successful, it's no longer a modification, it's a basic syntax now,
>so now @ means "this is either new, or not".
>
>> particular variation, you read the manual on the particular statement
>> where the variation occurs.  @(staticmethod) - read about it under
>> "def".  print @(...) - read the manual on 'print'.
>
>People will recognize things they don't understand without an @ sign, by
>virtue of not knowing what they are.  @(staticmethod) won't tell me to
>look under def any more than [staticmethod] will, and if I see something  
>I don't recognize near a print statement, I'll already know to read the
>manual on 'print'.

It's not enough that the user recognize something he doesn't
understand and be able to find it in the docs.  The number of these
things can be overwhelming.  I remember the first time reading about
static methods, and not having enough time to really understand what
they were.  The time was wasted, and had I needed to work with any
code having static methods, I would have given up.

The problem is that new users need guidance as to where they should
focus their efforts in learning the language.  A properly-designed
nameless-function syntax would avoid the obfuscation of lambda
functions.  Any user who understands basic functions would have no
difficulty with such an extension.

-- Dave



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sat Mar 27 17:21:59 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:21:59 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403271039.5a351884@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b8n9c.77512$8G2.70785@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai at 4ax.com>...
>> On 26 Mar 2004 20:49:00 -0800, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele
>> Simionato) wrote:
>> This is a small problem with a simple solution (see my earlier post),
>> and one that will retain the advantages of tabs.
> 
> Which advantages?


If the contest you're submitting your program to has hard byte limit,
and you need large indents to properly document your code.  (That is
one thing.)


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 01:15:42 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:15:42 +1200
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c3r92e$2b95ta$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
> to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
> compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order
> to decide if it's a generator.

While I happen to agree that generators ought to be
created using something other than a plain "def",
it couldn't be done this way. Generators need to be
compiled differently from the beginning -- you can't
turn an ordinary function into a generator by
wrapping it in anything.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar 11 09:52:07 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:52:07 -0600
Subject: File.read() sometimes not reading everything
References: <pan.2004.03.11.10.07.48.456622@arteris.net>
Message-ID: <etCdnXvgto2I4M3dRVn-tA@comcast.com>

Your file may contain an EOF character before the actual end
of file.  You might want to try f=open('myFile','rb') to
open in binary mode, which would ignore EOF characters and
read the entire file.

-Larry
"Boris Boutillier" <boris.boutillier at arteris.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.03.11.10.07.48.456622 at arteris.net...
> HI all,
>
> I came across a strange behaviour with read method, and I'm not sure if
> this is a filesystem problem or a misuse of this method.
> I do the simple following thing :
> f = open ('myFile','r')
> content = f.read()
> f.close()
>
> When I use this lines really intensively sometimes, at random the content
> is not the full content, it lacks some lines at the end.
> When reading the file.read docstring I see that there can be some problems
> with non-blocking file, but I suppose open() is by default creating a
blocking
> file.
>
> Is the file line-buffered by default ? This could be a reason for this
> early EOF, as I'm reading all the lines at once, and there is several
> lines in the file ?
>
> I'm at the moment trying to replace the previous read call by:
> content = '\n'.join(f.readlines)
> Not sure if this will work better, I'll say you.
>
> Any other idea of this strange behaviour ? Can this be a problem with
> filesystem also ?
>
> Any ideas welcomed !
>
> Boris




From python-list at qbcon.com  Tue Mar 23 09:24:49 2004
From: python-list at qbcon.com (Andreas Pauley)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:24:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Sending ICMP Packets
Message-ID: <20040323132841.V409@bsd4.intranet.qbcon.com>

Hi,

I'd like to generate my own icmp packets from within python.

Typically this would include sending an ECHO_REQUEST and checking if I get
an ECHO_REPLY back. But I would also like to send/receive other icmp
types, like timestamp and timestamp replies.

At the moment I'm playing with the socket module:
import socket
icmp=socket.getprotobyname('icmp')
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_RAW, icmp)

My "s" object has a sendto() method which accepts a string and an address
(according to the socket docs), but I'm not sure what the value of the
string should be.

Does anyone have some simple example code that will ping a host?

This is part of some firewall tests that I'm writing as unit tests, so if
anyone knows of tools out there that can help with firewall testing I'd
appreciate that aswell.

Regards,
Andreas




From eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com  Mon Mar  1 04:13:06 2004
From: eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:13:06 +0100
Subject: tkinter test field, scrolling, threads
References: <403fc9bc_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <c1uubt$vlh$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bob Greschke wrote:
> I have a program where the user pushes a button, a "starting" message is
> .inserted to a text field with an associated scroll bar, a thread is started
> that inserts a "working..." message on to the end of the text field until
> stopped, or until the loop finishes.  The loop sleeps for about 3 seconds
> every time through (I'm just prototyping at this point).  The mainloop just
> waits for the user to hit the same button again which will set a flag and
> cause the thread to terminate early, otherwise it doesn't have anything to
> do.  update()'s and update_idle_tasks() get called anytime anything is
> written to the text field.  Everything works fine until the text field fills
> up then the program just freezes with no errors on the console window.  If I
> change the starting of a thread to a regular function call then everything
> works fine.
> 
> What is going wrong?

If you do not post any code, it will be difficult for anyone to help you. 
Knowing your Python and tcl/tk versions and your platform will help too.

I know that there are some issues regarding Tkinter and threads, but the 
following code works:

--text+threads.py------------------
from Tkinter import *
import time, threading

root = Tk()
t = Text(root, width=8, height=4)
t.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH)
vs = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL, command=t.yview)
vs.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
t.configure(yscrollcommand=vs.set)
root.update()

def thLoop():
   i = 0
   while 1:
     t.insert(END, 'spam %s\n' % i)
     i += 1
     time.sleep(1)

th = threading.Thread(target=thLoop)
th.setDaemon(1)
th.start()

root.mainloop()
-----------------------------------

Tested with Python 2.1.1, tcl/tk 8.3.2 on Linux Mandrake 8.0
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 17:05:22 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:05:22 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
	<2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
	<c27ivn$3ao$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<404795ce.683812@news.muenster.de>
	<c2861t$kft$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <3o9f40tpvn2bj29p5g23i4et9hv3qii4hu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:12:14 +0100, Peter Maas
<fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:

>Martin Bless schrieb:
>> And then: Is it possible to reopen sys.stdout if the platform ist not
>> Unix-like?
>
>Yes but e.g. Win32 does not know /dev files, so am not sure what
>to substitute for /dev/tty. DOS had a "device" called CON which is
>still alive in Win32 consoles (echo Hi > CON) but I have not tested
>that.
>
>Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
>
>Peter Maas

Easy solution - write your extender such that it takes the original
file in the constructor...

  sys.stdout = ExtendedFile (sys.stdout)


One thing, though - can't this cause problems when different modules
separately import 'sys'. Given that the new sys.stdout should be
compatible with the old one (use inheritance and just add/override the
required methods) I'm far from sure, but this approach makes me feel a
bit uneasy - I suspect a future of obscure and hard to trace bugs.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar  6 15:41:56 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 20:41:56 GMT
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
> The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits and
> pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen CPL.
> String processing, for example, is one area where we may face some
> difficulty.  Here is a typical line of garbage from a statefile
> revision control system (simplified to eliminate some items that pose
> no new challenges):
> 
> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
> 
> The problem is to break this into its component parts, and eliminate
> spaces and other gradoo.  The cleaned-up list should look like:
> 
> ['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']
> 
> # Ruby:
> # clean = line.chomp.strip('.').squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)
> 
> This is pretty straight-forward once you know what each of the methods
> do.
> 
> # Current best Python:
> clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

Both Bash shell and Python can split based on regular expression.
However, shell is not a bad alternative here:
    tr -s ' \t' ' ' | sed -e 's/ ?| ?/|/g' -e 's/^ //' -e 's/ $//' |
    while IFS='|' read -a clean; do
	...
    done

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sat Mar 13 00:14:15 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:14:15 -0700
Subject: How to stop a listening socket.accept()?
References: <c2u4ne+b6fv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007701c408ba$08ac8600$6401fea9@YODA>

kvdvm wrote:
> It seems that the accept() method acts as stubborn as a mule to get a
> connection request even if I close it in another thread.
>
> Any idea will be deeply appreciated.

You can either make it non-blocking and use select in a loop, or you can have a
global flag indicate when it's time to shutdown, and open a dummy connection to
it, e.g. (untested):

class GV:
  quit = 0
  listenAddr = ('127.0.0.1', 2000)

def Listen(listenSock, handler):
  while 1:
    newSock, sockFrom = listenSock.accept()
    if GV.quit:
      newSock.close()
      break
    handler(newSock, sockFrom)

def StopListening():
  GV.quit = 1
  socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM).connect(listenAddr)

-Dave




From paul at prescod.net  Mon Mar 29 23:34:48 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:34:48 -0800
Subject: Pyrex talks from Pycon
In-Reply-To: <4067BCC8.5010209@prescod.net>
References: <4067BCC8.5010209@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <4068F8E8.70603@prescod.net>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> 
> I hope this helps me. Please report any mistakes.
 > ...

Whoa. I've gotta get more sleep. I meant to say:

"I hope this helps someone."

  Paul Prescod





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar 14 06:32:57 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:32:57 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: how to refresh a canvas without duplicates?
References: <20040228011336.3e4a9e0f@pc-00065.midtoad.homelinux.org><mailman.234.1077957026.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<NUc0c.623269$JQ1.515487@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <c31l21$v0l$1@sea.gmane.org>

"stewart" wrote:

> > if you need to rapidly redraw things in a Tkinter widget, the WCK is
> > often a lot more efficient:
> >
> >     http://www.effbot.org/zone/wck.htm
>
> I've tried to install this, but when I run 'python setup.py install', it
> complains that it "cannot find /usr/lib/python/2.3/config/Makefile".  Why
> would this be?

looks like you're using a prepackaged Python that doesn't include the
developer files (include files, libraries, etc).

look for "python-dev" or "python-devel" kits (or get the python sources,
and build your own interpreter from scratch).

also see:

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/extending.html#i-want-to-compile-a-python-module-on-my-linux-system-but-some-files-are-missing-why

</F>






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 10 11:59:43 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:59:43 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com><c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com><pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil><c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com><slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca><roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com><slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca><roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com><7id67l8dro.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk><mailman.221.1078923961.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7ismggofrt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <c2nhi1$ksi$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Isaac To" <kkto at csis.hku.hk> wrote in message
news:7ismggofrt.fsf at enark.csis.hku.hk...
> >>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:
>
>     Jeff> Are you certain that calling a function allocates a dictionary?
A
>     Jeff> function's locals are stored as indices in a C array unless a
>     Jeff> function uses bare exec.  I'm not sure what a dictionary is
needed
>     Jeff> for.
>
> You mean a function which calls the locals() function is byte-compiled
> differently from a function that won't call locals()?

Of course.  One has a call to the locals() function and the other does not.
Note that writing to the dict returned by locals() is *NOT* guaranteed to
affect the local namespace that the dict is a copy of.  Specifics can be
version dependent, as revealed by disassembly with the dis module.

Terry J. Reedy






From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar  4 14:57:02 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:57:02 -0500
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<23891c90.0403040241.60eb33a4@posting.google.com>
	<7x7jy0o8qd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <qnkd67swfld.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:
>> Really? At the fundamental level, the DB-API is pretty well
>> standardised, and there's a collection of well-written modules that
>> mostly adhere to it.
>
> Nope.  Look in the Python distribution, there's nothing like that
> there, and similarly in the Python reference manual.  Yeah, there's
> some random third party modules and docs, but see above, those don't
> exist ;-).

http://python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

PEP 249 is the DB-API. Ok, so it's not in the standard distribution --
as you said, there aren't any (SQL) database modules in the standard
distribution [1]. But this is the standard API for database interfacing
(and it's not a third-party API, either). Most third-party modules
conform to it (except for weird or old ones).

[1] maybe gadfly will get added at some point, though.

And hey, if you're choosing a database module, you've got to have
already chosen a database -- MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite, etc. This is a
bigger choice than "how do I talk to it." The Python DB-API makes it
relatively easy to write code where the difference in talking to
different databases is only in your SQL, and not how you call it.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Mon Mar 29 09:53:47 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:53:47 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<slrnc6fvnf.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c49d9r$fu7$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Joe Mason wrote:
> In article <BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010 at fed1read04>, Mark Hahn wrote:
>>> But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
>>> on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
>>
>> I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you
>> mean the garbage colector?  The mark and sweep just behaves like
>> another app running at the same time and uses a hunk of the cache to
>> do it's job.  Other than that I can't think of anything unfriendly
>> to the cache.  Am I missing something in your question?
>
> This, I think:
>
> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2002-08/msg00552.html

On the other hand, reference counting requires access to the memory even if
only a reference is copied. This can't be good for cache locality either.

Daniel





From p2esp at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 05:24:26 2004
From: p2esp at yahoo.com (p2esp)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:24:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xmlrpclib timeouts
Message-ID: <20040302102426.2869.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I'm using the xmlrpclib module to contact an XMLRPC
server that takes a long time to send results back. My
client timeouts.

The question is whether there is a way to have an
xmlrpclib client that never timeouts. I have been
searching for some code examples on how to do that,
but I could not find any in the xmlrpclib
documentation.

Thanks for any hints.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar  3 22:52:29 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:52:29 +1300
Subject: insertion in lists
In-Reply-To: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c2695v$1pm2b8$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Lupe wrote:
> I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me to be
> the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining of
> the program.

You might also like to consider using a dictionary indexed
by a tuple, which behaves like a sparse array, so you can
do things like

   d = {}
   d[0, 0] = 'a'
   d[5, 7] = 'b'

without having to worry about pre-allocating lists and
sub-lists of the right lengths first.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar  9 16:05:06 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:05:06 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <roy-F325DF.12255009032004 at reader2.panix.com>, Roy Smith wrote:
> > OK, I'll bite.  What's wrong with exceptions for breaking out of deeply 
> > nested loops?
> 
> Philosophically, the termination condition of a loop isn't an
> exceptional circumstance.

The normal flow of control is when you fall out the bottom of the loop 
when your control test goes false.  Breaking out of the middle is indeed 
an exceptional circumstance; it is an exception to the normal flow of 
control.  People tend to think of exceptions as errors, but they don't 
have to be.

Now, to be fair, imagine a construct like this:

try:
  for i in range (iMax):
     for j in range (jMax):
       for k in range (kMax):
          if thisIsIt (i, j, k):
             raise IFoundIt
   print "it's not there"
except IFoundIt:
   print "yes it is"

Presumably the expectation is that the thing you're looking for will 
exist somewhere in the i,j,k coordinate space.  Falling out the bottom 
of the loop is now the error condition.  I think this is what you were 
getting at, and I agree that this turns the whole concept of an 
exception on its ear.  The example above is one where I think factoring 
it out into a function makes the most sense:

def whereIsTheThing ():
   for i in range (iMax):
     for j in range (jMax):
       for k in range (kMax):
          if thisIsIt (i, j, k):
            return (i, j, k)

   raise ItsNotThere
 
> Practically, exceptions are overkill.  Using named break (or faking it
> with goto) is "static multi-level exit", while an exception is dynamic.
> It takes more overhead at runtime

That's certainly true in C++.  In complied/static languages like C++, 
there can be a significant speed difference between things that can be 
done at compile time and things that need to be done at run time (like 
constructing exception objects).

In Python, the cost of using exceptions is way less.  I just tried a 
little test, timing a bunch of breaks vs raises to get out of an inner 
loop (code listing below).  My timing results were:

count = 10000, the break way took 7.349000 seconds
count = 10000, the exception way took 8.121592 seconds

Yeah, the exceptions were slower, but only 10% slower, and that's for a 
loop that did essentially no useful work, so it's all overhead.  The 
difference would be smaller if the loop did anything real.  I'm not 
likely to let such a small change in execution time drive my code 
design.  If I was worried about such small speed gains, I wouldn't be 
writing in Python.

I would try repeating this example in C++, but the thought of how many 
lines of code I'd have to write to do it has convinced me that it should 
be left as "an excercise for the reader" :-)

> and if you don't catch it right it
> can escape up the call stack.

Well, yeah, but the answer to that is you catch it.  In fact, that's one 
of the nice things about exceptions.  If you don't catch it correctly, 
you find out about it fast.  If you mis-code a goto or break label, you 
just quietly execute the wrong code.

> A more pragmatic argument is that, for C++,
[...]
>   // declare an EndLoopException class, which I forget how to do because
>   // I haven't used C++ exceptions in ages

I think what you've demonstrated here is not so much that exceptions are 
a bad thing, but that C++'s implementation of exceptions (like most 
things in C++) is overly complicated.  I find it interesting that many 
people who come from a C++ background (especially those who migrated 
from C) tend to dislike exceptions.  It must have been something in the 
water when they were growing up :-)

--------------

#!/usr/bin/env python

import time

class Break (Exception):
    pass

x = 10000

t0 = time.time ()
count = 0
for i in range (x):
    for j in range (x):
        break
    count += 1

t1 = time.time ()
print "count = %d, the break way took %f seconds" % (count, t1 - t0)

t0 = time.time ()
count = 0
for i in range (x):
    try:
        for j in range (x):
            raise Break
    except Break:
        pass
    count += 1

t1 = time.time ()
print "count = %d, the exception way took %f seconds" % (count, t1 - t0)


From reynoldjr at verizon.net  Tue Mar 23 23:53:53 2004
From: reynoldjr at verizon.net (Reynold DeMarco Jr)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:53:53 GMT
Subject: study_hall
Message-ID: <Bv88c.1194$7F.822@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

I have created a new Yahoo group for college students

Please join

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/study_hall/




From ahk at writeme.com  Fri Mar 26 09:34:06 2004
From: ahk at writeme.com (ahk)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 06:34:06 -0800
Subject: Gtk / pyGtk: How to remove the close button at the top right corner
	of the dialog window?
Message-ID: <eb02dbae.0403260634.279ba837@posting.google.com>

As subject. TIA.


From salvatore at nolog.org  Fri Mar 19 16:53:23 2004
From: salvatore at nolog.org (Salvatore)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:53:23 +0100
Subject: XML
Message-ID: <c3fq37$ld7$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Hello,

I'am trying to parse an XML file using sax and Python 2.3 on windows

class FindIssue(saxutils.DefaultHandler):
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DefaultHandler'

Doesn't DefaultHandler makes part of saxutils ?

Thank you for your responses

Salvatore



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 18:32:25 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:32:25 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <106eo695a9t8820@news.supernews.com>

"Harald Massa" <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134...
> Mark,
>
> I see most discussion about Prothon is concerning prototypes.
>
> Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate
> prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?
>
> I never had a problem to "add an attribute" to an existing object; I
really
> can't see why it should be more than some small hacks to allow "adding a
> function to an existing object".

As you note, you can do that with a simple assignment,
and it will work. The two problems are:

1. The clone operation

2. Syntax sugar to make it all nice and palatable.

I suspect that a usable clone() operation is less
than 10 lines. The syntax sugar, on the other hand,
will IMNSHO, take forever to get agreement.

John Roth
>
>
> Harald




From rpm1deleteme at direcway.com  Mon Mar 29 20:19:07 2004
From: rpm1deleteme at direcway.com (RPM1)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:19:07 -0500
Subject: Britney Spears nude
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com> <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
	<c49rqo$2ebolk$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4aeen$2fp91b$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1080607371.97814.0@iris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <c4ai0f$2fjeo0$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Garry Knight"  wrote in  ...
> In message <c4aeen$2fp91b$1 at ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>, RPM1 wrote:
>
> > My wife , (yes my wife not me), was watching
> > a program on TV about this girl who was having
> > plastic surgery to look just like B. Spears.  It seems
> > she hadn't inherited the same kind of attributes that
> > the base class has so she was having them overridden
> > to match the base class.  So my question is which
> > instance of B. spears are we talking about?
>
> Don't know, but it explains the single title, 'OOPs, I did it again'...

Damn!  How did I miss that one!
I think that must be worth 25 points.  :-)  LOL

Patrick




From gandreas at no.reply  Thu Mar 25 16:44:01 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:44:01 -0600
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<mailman.416.1080238440.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gandreas-0ACAA2.15440025032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <mailman.416.1080238440.742.python-list at python.org>,
 Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> wrote:

> Glenn Andreas wrote:
> > What do you do if the expression is in an "if" statement?
> > 
> > 
> > if map(def(x,y,z),list1,list2,list3):
> >    # what goes here?  The body of the function
> >    # or the body of the if?  And how does the rest of it
> >    # look?
> 
> Ah, that's an interesting concern.  The same applies to "for" and 
> "while" statements.  This would have to be a syntax error.  Rewriting it 
> isn't too difficult, though, if you're willing to create an extra variable.
> 
>      condition = map(def(x,y,z),list1,list2,list3):
>          function body
>      if condition:
>          do stuff
> 
Wasn't the whole point of the use of "def in expression" to avoid having 
to use an extra variable?  After all, you currently can use an extra 
variable and get the exact same result:

   def myMapFunction(x,y,z):
      # body of function
   if map(myMapFunction,list1,list2,list3):
      # body of if

So basically, at that point, if you want to use def in expressions, for 
control expressions you'd need an extra variable, which is exactly the 
state you've got today (you just move that varible from a function to a 
value from).

> > Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing something 
> > like:
> > 
> >    myHandlers = {
> >       "click" : def(x,y):
> >                      print "click at x,y"
> >       "enter" : def():
> >                      print "mouse entered"
> >       "exit"  : def():
> >                      print "mouse exited"
> >    }
> 
> That example reads well, although it's odd that each function can have a 
> different set of arguments.  I think you'd really want a "case" 
> statement instead, but Guido doesn't seem to want that.
> 
> Shane
> 

I was thinking more the case where you hand that dictionary to something 
like a bridge for an external UI system (in this example it might be to 
handle the various callbacks that might be bound to a button).  The 
external (native) system would just know that it has a dictionary with a 
bunch of "handlers" associated with keys.

Granted, it may be easier to hand the native UI system an object with 
specific methods which it could call (PyObject_CallMethod), but one can 
certainly imagine the system as described being used.


Personally, I like the idea of anoymous functions, and that:

   x = def(arg):
      print args+1

and

   def x(arg):
      print arg+1

are the same doesn't bother me (Lua does this exact same thing - even 
pointing out that the equivalent syntax for the latter form is nothing 
but syntactic sugar for the former (though with the word "function" 
instead of "def")).


Still, the whole thing comes down to the fact that statements are 
terminated by new-lines & use indentations, and expressions are 
(normally) within a single line (and ignore indentation when they 
aren't).  The impediance between the two is pretty high, so trying to 
mix them isn't going to be easy or pretty.


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Tue Mar 30 12:34:48 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:34:48 -0500
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
	<c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <Wciac.12910$kc2.281846@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

JCM wrote:
> a = b = c
> a = b == c

In fact, it is very funny to see the effect of a=b=c in Basic (or at 
least in the Microsoft implementation I know of).

a = 2
b = 3
c = 3
a = b = c
a is assigned 1, which is the result of comparison of b and c.  So in 
Basic, the first = is like = in Python, and the other are like ==.  This 
is horrible...


From tismer at stackless.com  Tue Mar 30 10:21:07 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:21:07 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <c4at6b$5vr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9@simonxp>	<mailman.89.1080615582.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4at6b$5vr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <40699063.1080005@stackless.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> p.s.; this is the last time I manually will remove a "nospam"
>> email entry. Who should remove all the spam mailings, if people
>> like you don't help with it? :-)
> 
> 
> No need to CC me, I read the newsgroup and will read the message 
> anyways. :)  Yeah, I may as well toss the nospam portion, that is why I 
> have the bayesian filter.
> 
> I'm curious to know what what email/newsgroup client you are using, your 
> email client does not seem to produce proper "References:" and 
> "In-Reply-To:" headers, which breaks message threading.  The headers 
> claim Mozilla, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

What's wrong with
"""
To: Simon Wittber <drconrad at metaplay.com.au>
References: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9 at simonxp>
In-Reply-To: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9 at simonxp>
""" ?

it is the latest windows mozilla.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar  5 22:29:17 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:29:17 GMT
Subject: Curiosity question on signatures
References: <ci4i401t13ho3ht7rtd0gl82dc629qq5bh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hAb2c.690636$JQ1.280050@pd7tw1no>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:

> Does this "feature" of being able to treat positional arguments as
> named arguments have any use? Does anybody make any use of it? Is
> there any rationale on why it's in the language?

Oi Gon?alo, tudo bem?

my reference Python Web Programming by Steve Holden has a good section on
functions and arguments.   He would likely say in response to your post
that in your example you are not using positional arguments as named
arguments. Rather, you are providing arguments as keywords.   Python
doesn't restrict you unnecessarily, so you can provide the arguments in the
way that you prefer.   One restriction however does exist: all the
positional arguments have to come before the keyword arguments; that's
because you may a case with a variable number of keyword arguments, so they
have to come at the end. 

Stewart



From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Sat Mar 13 19:37:27 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:37:27 +1300
Subject: How to move and then use an installed python?
In-Reply-To: <c3082r+p5ke@eGroups.com>
References: <c3082r+p5ke@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4053A947.8000606@rebirthing.co.nz>

AFAIK, when Python gets compiled, the binary ends up with hardwired 
file/directory paths.

Since you've moved the python tree, you have two choices:
1) Recompile python for its new location, and reinstall all the extra 
packages
2) Explicitly set the PYTHONHOME and/or PYTHONPATH environment variables 
(see man python).

David



Baz ???? wrote:
> All,
> 
> If I have installed python 2.3.3 in /opt/thirdparty directory. Can I 
> copy the contents of the thirdparty directory to my rpm/SOURCES 
> directory as part of my software_a rpm package then reuse it and 
> install in /home/mydir?
> 
> So I have tried this and i have the following errors:
> 
> error: Failed dependencies:
>         /opt/thirdparty/bin/python is needed by Avalon-dev-de
> 
> How can I use an installed python package? Should I build it with a 
> different option?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> B.
> 
> 

-- 

Kind regards
David

--

leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter



From ross at karchner.com  Tue Mar  2 10:23:13 2004
From: ross at karchner.com (Ross M Karchner)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:23:13 -0500
Subject: xmlrpclib timeouts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1078238153.12614.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.25.1078238153.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <H6SdnR6XvIV8O9ndRVn-gg@giganews.com>

Maybe a timeoutsocket with really long timeout value would do what you want?

http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py


import timeoutsocket
timeoutsocket.setDefaultSocketTimeout(86400) # 24 hours



-Ross

p2esp wrote:

>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I'm using the xmlrpclib module to contact an XMLRPC
>>>server that takes a long time to send results back.
> 
> My
> 
>>>client timeouts.
>>>
>>>The question is whether there is a way to have an
>>>xmlrpclib client that never timeouts. I have been
>>>searching for some code examples on how to do that,
>>>but I could not find any in the xmlrpclib
>>>documentation.
>>>
>>>Thanks for any hints.
> 
> 
>>"Client that never times out" is not a good idea,
> 
> generally.  
> 
>>Nothing in life is certain, but even moreso in
> 
> distributed 
> 
>>systems.  Timeouts are there to protect you from all
> 
> kinds
> 
>>of problem conditions (busy server, crashed
>>server, etc.).  You really don't want your client to
> 
> be in a
> 
>>position of waiting for a response that is never
> 
> going to
> 
>>come.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
>>Paul
> 
> 
> Thank you Paul for your informative message.
> 
> I do understand it's not a good idea to do this, and I
> will check what you suggest. Nevertheless, I still
> want to know: can a "never timeout" client be written
> in xmlrpclib? 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
> 


From uce at ftc.gov  Tue Mar  2 12:10:01 2004
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:10:01 -0500
Subject: vim & python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1078239723.12614.python-list@python.org>
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>	<af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1078239723.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <L5KdnYhy1Z15ItndRVn-hA@comcast.com>

gabor wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 02:48, poiboy wrote:
> 
>>Normally I use GVim next to ....
> 
> 
> i always wanted to ask this...
> why people use GVIm and not the normal-vim-in-a-terminal?
> 
> what is the advantage of gvim?
> 
> thanks,
> gabor
> 
> 

So when you need to use a command that you don't use frequently you 
don't have to dig through docs somewhere, you can just find it in the 
menus. Or, if you work in windows it's more natural.



From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 15 17:47:59 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:47:59 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfad2irlf4.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <slrnc5cb0h.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <tyfad2irlf4.fsf at lxplus040.cern.ch>, Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Python's type system is what it is, regardless of anybody's opinion
> about it, and regardless of how knowledgeable anybody is about
> anything. This is blatantly obvious to anyone who actually _thinks_
> about it.

Take it to comp.lang.platonic.

Joe


From rmb25612 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 19:04:11 2004
From: rmb25612 at yahoo.com (Richard James)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 16:04:11 -0800
Subject: Searching comp.lang.python
References: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <2c60f0e0.0403101604.2dd82a1b@posting.google.com>

"Mulugeta Maru" <mmaru at allstream.net> wrote in message news:<fut3c.921$Xy3.3330 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...
> I went to the Python site to search posts made by group members. I am not
> sure whether there is this functionality exists. If it does could you please
> help a new comer.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> MM

Use this link:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python

The group search box is at the top of the webpage.
-- R.J.


From vedranf at riteh.hr  Thu Mar 11 19:36:25 2004
From: vedranf at riteh.hr (Vedran Furac)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:36:25 +0100
Subject: Video module?
References: <mailman.265.1079003910.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2r0et$7n0$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Is anybody aware of some good Python module for playing video (mpeg-2,
> mov, avi or similar)? I looked at pygame.movie, but it does not seem

maybe this:
<http://207.34.118.42/~john/pyffmpeg/>




From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Mon Mar  1 10:40:54 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:40:54 +0100
Subject: KinterBasDB problems  in Linux
Message-ID: <6829126481.20040301164054@anonym.hu>

Hello !

Very interesting thing:
When I copy this script to another dir, it is working, but in this
directory is not working.
Only different is to this dir is used by an symlink.

The python is not working good with symlinked dirs ???

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


So: in Debian Sarge, some interesting thing happened.

When I start python with:
/usr/bin/python
it is starting the py2.3

When I write this:
import kinterbasdb<crlf>
the py2.3 is not say this:
"import _kinterbasdb as _k"
"ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb"
only do the import.
So it is working.

BUT !

If I write this line to a script:
#!/usr/bin/python
import kinterbasdb
this error I get:
"import _kinterbasdb as _k"
"ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb"

Why ?
What I do wrong ??????

Anybody know it ?


Monday, March 1, 2004, 12:15:04 PM, you wrote:

UG> I don't have any proplems with cross-platform issues.
UG> Working on Win2000 + suse linux 8.2, 9.0 and FB 1.5,
UG> kinterbasdb from http://sourceforge.net/projects/kinterbasdb/

I try with apt-get install "kidb", and do same things.

UG> Try this version!

UG> Uwe


UG> fowlertrainer at anonym.hu wrote:

>> Hello !
>> 
>> I have a problem.
>> I create my projects in Windows, and I write a database synchronizing
>> utility for copy a gdb changes to another gdb. Some of these products
>> is need to run in linux.
>> 
>> I'm very tired, because I download (apt-get install
>> python2.3-kinterbasedb) the module, what working good in Windows, but
>> in linux I get this message when I try to start my script:
>> 
>> bha:/kepes# ./syncmdb2teldb.py
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "./syncmdb2teldb.py", line 2, in ?
>>     import kinterbasdb
>>   File "/home/fixshare/kepes/kinterbasdb/__init__.py", line 41, in ?
>>     import _kinterbasdb as _k
>> ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb
>> bha:/kepes#
>> 
>> 
>> The test file is:
>> File: syncmdb2teldb.py  Col 0              321 bytes            100%
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>> import kinterbasdb
>> 
>> import sys
>> # Base datas
>> 
>> srcdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/teldata.gdb',us
>> er='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
>> desdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/mpanni.gdb',use
>> r='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
>> print "ok"
>> 
>> 1Help   2UnWrap 3Quit   4Hex    5Line   6RxSrch 7Search 8Raw    9Unform 10Quit
>> 
>> In the package dir:
>> 
>> bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb# ls -l
>> total 152
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        29691 Jul 19  2002 __init__.py
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyc
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyo
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        56072 Sep 28 16:32 _kinterbasdb.so
>> bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb#
>> 
>> 
>> What I do wrong, or what is it ????
>> (The Zope with Kinterbasdb is working good in this linux, so no
>> connection problem...)
>> 
>> thanx for every help !
>> 





-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                            mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu







From bblackmoor at spamcop.net  Sun Mar  7 16:17:22 2004
From: bblackmoor at spamcop.net (Brandon Blackmoor)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:17:22 -0500
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
In-Reply-To: <abc4d8b8.0403042353.1b15f8ce@posting.google.com>
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
	<du7wu60ra10.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403042353.1b15f8ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2g3gb$1sb5fo$1@ID-97660.news.uni-berlin.de>

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
> 
>    HTH. HAND.

Is this your signature or nickname, or does it perhaps mean something in 
your native language (like "ciao", for example)? I assumed it was your 
signature, but it doesn't resemble your name, so I thought it may mean 
something else. Perhaps it's like those "geek codes" some people put in 
their signatures?

bblackmoor
2004-03-07


From cmg at dok.org  Tue Mar 23 15:04:55 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:04:55 -0500
Subject: difflib + object sequences
Message-ID: <m2brmntjmg.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

Hello Folks,

I'm attempting to use difflib's SequenceMatcher to pull out the
matching subsequences of a list of objects.  Code is below.

object matches
a[0] and b[0] match for 3 elements
a[5] and b[5] match for 0 elements
integer matches
a[0] and b[0] match for 3 elements
a[4] and b[4] match for 1 elements
a[5] and b[5] match for 0 elements

Note that the expected matches at a[4] and b[4] are missing with the
object.

I've narrowed this down to difflib.py ( both 2.3 and CVS's ) using a
dictionary on the backend and hash(Misc(1)) != hash(Misc(1)).

Is this expected behavior?
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=105470&aid=660098&group_id=5470
shows some coments on objects inheriting a default __hash__ ret
self(id).

If I define __hash__ as return hash(self.val), things work as
expected.  Now the question is, what should I log as a bug?

The existing bug 660098?
Documentation could use an example like this test?
Something busted with difflib?

Thanks for your help, Looking forward to pycon tommorrow.
Chris

Code:

from difflib import SequenceMatcher

class Misc(object):
    def __init__(self, val):
        self.val = val
    def __cmp__(self, other):
        return cmp(self.val,other.val)
    def __str__(self):
        return str(self.val)

def test_sm(seqA, seqB):        
    # new sequence matcher with no junk defined
    sm = SequenceMatcher(None, seqA, seqB)
    
    blockList = sm.get_matching_blocks()
    
    for block in blockList:
        print "a[%d] and b[%d] match for %d elements" % block

if __name__=='__main__':


    # define 2 very similar sequences with a cmp operator
    objA = [Misc(1), Misc(2), Misc(3), Misc(96), Misc(24)]
    objB = [Misc(1), Misc(2), Misc(3), Misc(42), Misc(24)]

    intA = [1,2,3,96,24]
    intB = [1,2,3,42,24]

    print "object matches"
    test_sm(objA,objB)

    print "integer matches"
    test_sm(intA,intB)
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever.


From dmq at gain.com  Sun Mar 14 07:14:20 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 05:14:20 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2.1079209742.688.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bri8509bb89euassu0r95su43a4lq4vssb@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:27:00 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    David> I'm not sure at this point if an improved reload() is worth
>    David> pursuing, ...
>
>I wrote something and threw it up on my Python Bits page:
>
>    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/

I get AttributeErrors when I try the super_reload function. Looks like
sys.modules has a bunch of items with no '__dict__'.

I'll work with Skip via email.

-- Dave



From egusenet at verizon.net  Thu Mar 25 12:06:06 2004
From: egusenet at verizon.net (Eric)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:06:06 -0500
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet@verizon.net>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604 at posting.google.com>, Eric wrote:
> > Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message
> >news:<slrnc63985.3n2.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> >
> >> (The crux of the flamewar is that Condorcet tends to elect
> >> "compromise candidates" who are few peoples' favourite but palatable to
> >> most, while IRV is more likely to elect people that are the first choice
> >> of a large block but hated by others.  Which is preferable is a matter
> >> of philosophy.)
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > I cannot see how IRV and a Condorcet method would differ should a
> > certain candidate receive a large block of first place votes. For if a
> > certain Candidate is the first choice of a large block, it has a
> > distinct advantage in both IRV and Condorcet over all the other
> > candidates, but will not necessarily be the winner in either.
> 
> I think the contentious scenario was two large opposed blocks and a
> small centrist block (C):
> 
> [redid the ballots to put them in a form accepted by online calculators]
>
> 49:A>C>B
> 48:B>C>A
> 3:C
>
> In Condorcet, we get:
> [snip]
> So C is the winner.  But, say the IRV proponents, only 3% of the
> population actually want C to win!

Yes, I understand this is the claim that some IRV proponents would make.
However, no such definitive statement can honestly be asserted based on
those ballots. With most (if not all) ranked ballot methods (including
Condorcet and IRV), if a voter truly does not want a Candidate to win,
the way the indicate that is by leaving that Candidate unranked.

In this case, the A & B voters did not leave C unranked. Both groups
clearly stated that they preferred C to their primary opponent.

What we do not know, because neither IRV nor Condorcet collects the
strength of the preference (there are inherent problems with doing such
a thing which is beyond the scope of this message), is how strong the
preference is for the A & B voters for C rather then their primary
opponent.

For example, it could be that:
(The numbers in parenthesis indicate the strength of how much the
candidates are liked on a linear 0 - 100 scale)

49 A(100) > C(99) > B(0)
48 B(100) > C(99) > A(0)
3: C(100)

Should this be true, one would be hard pressed to develop a credible and
compelling argument that C should not be the winner.

However, it is also possible that:

49 A(100) > C(1) > B(0)
48 B(100) > C(1) > A(0)
3: C(100)

In which case, an argument can be made that C should not be the winner.

But, like I stated, neither IRV nor Condorcet collect such information,
so, what is the fairest way to deal with this?

Both IRV and Condorcet both assume that your top choice has a strength
of 100. However, they differ greatly in the assumptions made about lower
preferences.

With IRV, if your top choice is eliminated, your second choice is
automatically promoted to a strength of 100, regardless of how you
actually feel about that candidate. For example, say a voter had voted
(I've included theoretical preference strengths):
  
  A(100) > B(1) > C(0)

but that A was eliminated. IRV recasts their vote as:

  B(100) > C(0)

A Condorcet method assumes that the strengths of the preferences should
be distributed evenly among the ranked candidates. I find this
assumption to be far more compelling in the general case because it is
simply not believable that all the A & B voters in any genuine situation
would have the exact same feelings towards the other candidates.
Condorcet makes assumptions about the average feeling towards the other
candidates.

It is also interesting to note that nearly every other ranked ballot
method will also select C as the winner. IRV seems to stand alone in the
assertion that the winner should be someone other then C.

Based on:
http://cec.wustl.edu/~rhl1/rbvote/calc.html
http://condorcet.ericgorr.net/
http://www.duniho.com/remote-mamcalc.php

> Anyway, the real question in this forum is whether Condorcet is a good
> method for voting on a PEP.  

If you would like to see how Condorcet and IRV behave with in genuine
ranked ballot elections, you can check out:

  http://ericgorr.net/library/tiki-index.php?page=BallotArchives

If anyone is aware of other places where ranked ballots from real
elections can be collected, let me know. I am working on collecting the
ranked ballots for the uk.* USENET hierarchy votes.






From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar  8 04:24:13 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 10:24:13 +0100
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> schreef:
> 
> > * (defmethod foo ((x integer))
> 
> > * (defmethod foo ((x string))
> 
> > The ANSI standard for the _dynamically typed_ language shown above,
> 
> Maybe someone can explain,

Sure ...

> but the above doesn't look like "dynamic typing" to me...?

In order to preserve us from a long thread full of irrelevancies,
maybe I should first ask you to tell me what _you_ mean by dynamic
typing.

However, I'll take the plunge ...

My definition of dynamic typing can be summarized as follows: "Objects
know their own type. Variables do not have a type."

So, let's try the following code

  (defmethod foo (x)
    (format t "~&~s has some type or other." x))
  
  (defmethod foo ((x integer))
    (format t "~&~s is an integer." x))
  
  (defmethod foo ((x string))
    (format t "~&~s is a string." x))
  
  (loop for item in (list 1
  			  "hmm"
  			  (list 1 2)
  			  (make-hash-table)
  			  (vector))
        do (foo item))

And we get the output:

  1 is an integer.
  "hmm" is a string.
  (1 2) has some type or other.
  #<EQL hash table, 0 entries {4819DEFD}> has some type or other.
  #() has some type or other.


- Note that item (a variable) is undeclared; nowherere do you specify
  it's type. (That doesn't mean that it's dynamically typed though -
  see implicitly statically typed languages such as ML, for
  counterexamples.)

- Note that item is bound to objects of completely different types
  (integer, string, list, hash-table and array, in this case) at
  different times. (This _does_ mean that it's dynamically typed.)


Perhaps you thought that it doesn't look like dynamic typing because
of superficial similarities with C++ method overloading:

void foo(std::string x) {
  std::cout << x << " has type string." << std::endl;
}

void foo(int x) {
  std::cout << x << " has type int." << std::endl;
}

The important difference is that C++ does this "dispatch" at _compile
time_, and in order to do it, you must tell the compiler, in the
source code, a priori, the type with which you will be calling the
function, by providing a type declaration of the variable which you
will be passing to the function.

For example:

int i; // I'm telling the compiler that i will always be an int
...
foo(i) // The compiler decides (at compile-time) which version of foo
       // will be called (at run-time), on the basis of the type
       // I gave above.

i = "hello" // Error, I promised the compiler that i would always be
            // an int and now I'm breaking my promise.


Contrast this to our mystery language:

(let ((i 2)) ; No type declaration
  (foo i) ; Dispatch done at runtime
  (setq i "hello") ; Variable rbound to object of different type
  (foo i)) ; Another runtime dispatch, different method called


Does this help ?


From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Wed Mar 10 22:03:23 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:03:23 -0600
Subject: Python scripting for GNumeric
In-Reply-To: <c0a3763a.0403090922.6499be97@posting.google.com>
References: <c0a3763a.0403090922.6499be97@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404FD6FB.2040100@cs.com>

> I recommended two of my friends currently using Excel and VBA Gnumeric
> as a replacement. It seems they are using a lot of VBA in conjunction
> with Excel.
You may be better of using Open Office.  It has a spreadsheet call Calc. 
  The spreadsheet can be programed in JavaScript, Basic, and Python 
among other's I believe.  I have not done this, but it should be 
equivalent to MS Office generally.

Only concern I have is that all of this is "developmental" meaning 
recent... which means programs can get the job done, but other's may 
find the documentation is a little thin.

OO runs on linux and Windows, and maybe mac.

Rob


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 28 21:44:42 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 21:44:42 -0500
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c482iq$7rc$1@panix1.panix.com>

[quoting unsnipped, voting this for post of the week]

In article <8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade at posting.google.com>,
Hung Jung Lu <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I use C++ and Python everyday. Let us be fair and point out some good
>things about each of them.
>
>(a) In compiled language like C++, changing function prototypes and
>variable names is comfortable, because the compiler will find all
>those spots that you need to change. In Python, you do not have the
>same level of comfort. Sure, there are other techniques, but it's
>different than clicking a button.
>
>(b) Cameron said something very true in my opinion: for large
>projects, you want Python. But he said so without giving more details.
>So let me add some comments.
>
>In my opinion, the essence of software development is code/task
>factorization. It seems such a trivial concept, but if you really
>really think about it, goto statements, loops, functions, classes,
>arrays, pointers, OOP, macros/templates, metaprogramming, AOP,
>databases, etc, just about every single technique in programming has
>its base in the concept of code/task factorization. Take for instance
>classes and inheritance, basically, you factor out the common parts of
>two classes and push it up into a common parent class. To go one level
>deeper, my belief is that at the bottom, all human intellectual
>activities are based on factorization: no more, no less.
>
>In large projects, you'll find that you need to factor out even more.
>Let us take an example. Suppose you write an application, and later on
>you realize that you need to make it transactional: that is, if some
>exceptions happen, you want to roll back the changes. Now, this kind
>of major after-thought is terrible for languages without
>metaprogramming capabilities. To add a new feature, you will have to
>make modifications in hundreds or thousands of spots. Another example,
>suppose your software is versioned, more over, you have different
>versions for the application and for the data file format, and your
>application needs to work with legacy file formats. Again, without
>metaprogramming capabilities, your code will have many redundant lines
>of code, or be cluttered with tons of if-statements or
>switch-statements. Another similar problem: you have several different
>clients that buy your application, and they want some different extra
>features. Again, without metaprogramming, your code will be either
>hard to code (using virtual functions, function pointers, and/or
>templates in C++), or will be cluttered with if-else- and switch-
>statements (a terrible practice that will make your code
>unmaintainable.)
>
>As your project grows more and more complex (become threaded, many new
>clients requirements, support for legacy versions, using distributed
>computing in a cluster, etc.) you will realize more and more that you
>need to factorize efficiently, otherwise your pain will be unbearable.
>
>When you have reached that point, you'll come to appreciate simplicity
>and purity in a language. Frankly, Python is good but still not good
>enough.
>
>For large projects, if you use a rigid language, then your best bet is
>to use tons of programmers coding trivial interfaces and APIs to make
>up for the shortcomings of the language. In flexible languages like
>Python, you often can use metaprogramming features to factor out the
>common areas. At that point, I think that issues like automatically
>finding name changes as I mentioned in point (a) become small issues,
>because you will have bigger concerns. The fact that you may miss a
>name change or function header change is not the thing that will kill
>you. The fact that your entire system is unmaintainable is the thing
>that will kill you. Don't look at individual bugs when you are talking
>about large projects, because your worry should not be there: your
>worry should be focused on how to make your system maintainable. Bugs
>can and will be fixed. But if your language does not allow you to
>factorize efficiently, at the end of the day, that's what's going to
>kill you.
>
>regards,
>
>Hung Jung


-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From paschen at mavd.de  Thu Mar  4 06:21:49 2004
From: paschen at mavd.de (Bjoern Paschen)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:21:49 +0100
Subject: Calling C programs
References: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1078399266.860576@mail.mavd.de>

C GIllespie wrote:
> I have a simple C program which outputs a string. I want to be able to
> call this progam from python and assign the output to a variable. What's
> the best way to do this?
> I've tried
> os.system('/tmp/hello')
> os.execv('/tmp/hello',[' '])
> but I can't seem to store the return value.

One possible way is to use os.popen().
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-newstreams.html

Bjoern


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 11:28:18 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:28:18 GMT
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
	<slrnc6cgt9.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280715.18292937@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6dtjd.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <95aa1afa.0403280715.18292937 at posting.google.com>, Michele Simionato wrote:
> Those links refer to the drafts on my personal home page. They could
> disappear. It is much better to refer to the published versions (which
> are also fancier):
> 
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta.html
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta2

Oh, sorry.  I didn't realize they were drafts - I figured the
developerworks articles were syndicated.  I thought it would be more
salutory to point to your personal copies.

Joe


From http  Sat Mar 20 20:51:06 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 17:51:06 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
	<405cefb6$0$120$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <7x4qsjnf1x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:
> I wonder why it is necessary to do the bit twiddling once one has
> chosen to multiply by a fraction instead of directly putting the bits
> inside a float. If 1.0 / 2**53 is just some arbitrary value (and why
> not: A floats' smallest value is a lot smaller than that?) then we can
> generate integers of other sizes and divide them by other floats, for
> example:

I think life gets very complicated once you start trying to generate
denormalized floats.  They aren't uniformly distributed on the unit
interval, so if you make random numbers by dividing uniformly
distributed integers by some constant, you'll get way too many
denorms.  If your application is using so many random numbers that it
much chance of ever seeing one below 2**-53, maybe you need to use
extended precision or something.  Note this whole thing gets into the
precise properties of machine floats, and Python in principle is not
supposed to be IEEE-dependent.  (The magic number 2**-53 is an IEEE
artifact).


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Mon Mar 29 05:12:41 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:12:41 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c48spk$a3k$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

Les dictionnaires sont plus rapides lors de la recherche  ("... in ..."),
car il y a utilisation de la clef.
Avec une liste, la recherche est s?quentielle.


in english (try) :

For search (... in ...) :
    - dictionnary use key search
    - list use sequentiel search




@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau




From hufman at cobalty.com  Wed Mar  3 22:04:27 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 21:04:27 -0600
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
Message-ID: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>

Okay, I'm busy making a wonderful cgi program, and everything is working 
wonderfully so far. I'm using the standard cgi library and the Cookie 
library and they have been a huge help. Thanks to those who have created 
them!
However, if I try to send binary data, like jpgs, through cgi, the data 
gets corrupted in a very small manner. Whenever my program sends the 
character 10, it gets converted to character 13+character 10. I found out 
this only happens when I send data to stdout. If I send the data to a 
standard file object, it works fine. However, with the stdout, the problem 
arises.
Here is the relevant part of the code:
---Begin
from sys import stdout
def senddownloaddata(file):    	#file is a pointer to an open file
    line=file.read(1)    	    	#file pointer opening and closing are
    while len(line)==1:    	    	# handled outside of function
        stdout.write(line)
        line=file.read(1)
    stdout.write(line)
---End
Now the code that copies files:
---Begin
curdir="C:\windows\desktop"
temp=file(curdir+"/bach.it","rb",0)
out=file(curdir+"/bach2.it","wb",0)
data=temp.read(1)
while len(data)==1:
    out.write(data)
    data=temp.read(1)
temp.close()
out.close()
---End

I'm using Windows 98 SE with an Apache 2.0.44 Win32 server. That all works 
fine. The first line of the interactive script says:
PythonWin 2.3.2 (#49, Nov 13 2003, 10:34:54) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32.
I'm assuming that means I have Python 2.3.2. Everything else in the program 
works very nice, except for the data corruption.

Please help me with this problem. It has me stumped.
Thanks in advance!

--Walter Huf--
hufman at cobalty.com


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 17 14:11:18 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:11:18 -0600
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <c2mrrq$1k7$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<104q64b2uf3nl0b@news.supernews.com>
	<c2mrrq$1k7$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c3a7sj$j3a$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Aahz wrote:

> In article <104q64b2uf3nl0b at news.supernews.com>,
> John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>>A reference beginning in the current directory is thus:
>>
>>import *.spam.eggs
> 
> 
> That's functionally equivalent to the suggested
> 
> import .spam.eggs

I don't see the above syntax referenced in the PEP.

As I read the PEP, I would have thought the above would have been 
prohibited. Quoth the PEP:

"""There does seem to be agreement that relative imports will require 
listing specific names to import (that is, import foo as a bare term 
will always be an absolute import)."""

I took this to mean that relative imports would require the "from ... 
import ... [as ...]" syntax ("listing specific names" of variables in a 
module to import), and "import ..." would always be absolute (importing 
a module as a "bare term" without reference to specific variables to 
import).

I take it since you are the PEP author, this is a mistaken impression. 
But I am at a loss to figure out what exactly is implied by the quoted 
phrase above.

-Rocco


From sc0rp at hot.pl  Wed Mar 24 03:29:42 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:29:42 +0100
Subject: CGI with python help newbie
References: <uEa8c.39708$Bg.1320@fed1read03> <406139F0.F5FF2E79@hot.pl>
Message-ID: <406146F6.ECBBF992@hot.pl>

Amy G wrote:
> it simply prints the code to the browser when I go to the page.

Install mod_python first, then add required directives to http.conf.
You can find details in mod_python manual.

Best regards,
Jacek.




From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Mon Mar 15 15:07:45 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:45 GMT
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<uteb50lm5t0l2mf2f3lklmr3ruusj3mfjv@4ax.com>
	<j4qb505fhlukq14p92ae961bfuhsurfo08@4ax.com>
	<donn-52196E.10264115032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <en2c50p1pcdqob0r3bd8fr328mp1nmf5c9@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:26:41 -0800, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu>
wrote:
>
>Taking list comprehensions, because that's what the original
>post took at least as an example and because that's the only
>case that is new enough to half seriously consider changing -
>
>   t = f(a/c)
>   ... # and then later,
>   sl = [t * t for t in range(3)]
>
>In this case, I would argue that it's an error for t to escape
>the expression scope _because_ it's used outside that scope -
>actually I think that was where we came in. 

Yeah, I guess that is where the danger is, if I had been previously
bound "t" and had it rebound against my expectations Which was not
exactly the case I fell into.  Thinking about it, I - and hopefully
others - at least have an intuitive sense of knowing what they don't
know. 

I guess there were always enough variable names at my disposal that I
have avoided using something as a iterator variable that I have used
for some other purpose in the same scope. Just to be safe. And knowing
I don't fully understand what is happening under the covers.. Good
boy. me.

Art
> My personal view
>is that a list comprehension should have its own internal scope,
>period, but is that what `intuition' would lead most Python
>programmers to expect?  I don't know.
>
>   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 29 16:04:06 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:04:06 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org><106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com><406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu><106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.73.1080588424.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106h3tg3rh7as7e@news.supernews.com>


"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.73.1080588424.20120.python-list at python.org...
>
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
> news:106gg1jifa2n9c2 at news.supernews.com...
> > I think you misunderstood. There is no "standard" length of
> > a tab. A tab is supposed to insert (or otherwise render the
> > equivalent of inserting) enough spaces to go to the next "tab stop",
> > which by convention is a multiple of 8 columns on a fixed
> > width mechanical typewriter. This is where tabs originated.
>
> Actually, the mechanical typewrite standard (in US, 1960s) was every 5
> spaces == 1/2 inch (10 chars per inch, fixed).  That was also the standard
> paragraph indent.  WordPerferct, for one program, stuck with 1/2 inch even
> as it accommodated different fixed and variable pitched fonts.  I remember
> thinking 8 spaces a bit weird when I first used Unix (early 80s).

You're right about that, although that was only for the 1st tab. After
that, it was whereever you needed them for columns.

> Power-of-2 4 and 8 are computerisms.  Don't remember about Teletypes, nor
> about typewriters in non-inch countries.

I don't think it was a power of two thing. I very vaguely remember
some papers on the "ideal" tab spacing for inserting tabs in TTY
data streams. They were there to shrink runs of spaces to
something the mechanical teletypes could move over faster.
Some of the computations to insert a tab and then a specific
number of nulls to compensate for the exact mechanics at the
other end got quite intricate.

John Roth
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>
>




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Mon Mar  1 11:10:59 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:10:59 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
Message-ID: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Hi everyone,
	I just discovered, correct me if I'm wrong, that as long as a 
threading.Thread is running, its destructor will not be called, because 
it is referring to himself.  So if I have something like:

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
     def __init__(self):
         self.cancelEvent = threading.Event()
         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
     def __del__(self):
         self.cancel()
     def run(self):
         self.cancelEvent.wait()
     def cancel(self):
         self.cancelEvent.set()

I must call cancel from the outside if I want the destructor to be 
called (note that I don't want deamon threads).  I can make a wrapper 
over threading.Thread to have the behaviour I want: have a thread with 
__del__ called when it is not referred by another thread.  But my 
question is, and I don't have an overall vision of the issue at all, 
should that be the default behaviour anyway?

Regards,
Nicolas


From theller at python.net  Fri Mar 12 12:05:21 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:05:21 +0100
Subject: py2exe win32all: Can write, but not read FileVersion ...
References: <c2plth$8ap$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
	<mailman.267.1079012227.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4050fab2_5@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hdwuyp0u.fsf@python.net>

[about version resources created by py2exe]

"Roger Upole" <rupole at hotmail.com> writes:

> The language and codepage are getting reversed in the resource created.
> If you switch them in the call to GetFileVersionInfo, everything shows up.
>                   Roger

Cool.  So it seems this fix to py2exe\resources\VersionInfo.py makes
everything fine: Replace this line
         VarFileInfo(0x040904B0)])
with this:
         VarFileInfo(0x04B00409)])

Thanks, Thomas




From balex at sympatico.ca  Tue Mar 23 23:36:36 2004
From: balex at sympatico.ca (Brian)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:36:36 -0500
Subject: nomenclature for units
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.24.04.36.36.93173.5024@sympatico.ca>

This may seem trivial, but ...

I'm looking for the correct nomenclature to describe project code and its
corresponding testing code. For instance, in a manual I might say something
like "Every <?> unit possesses its own <?> unit containing code to establish 
correctness ..."

Every <production> unit? possesses its own <testing> unit? ...

Many thanks,

Brian.


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Wed Mar  3 00:53:48 2004
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 21:53:48 -0800
Subject: xmlrpclib timeouts
References: <mailman.19.1078223070.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0403022153.2341cf2b@posting.google.com>

p2esp <p2esp at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.19.1078223070.12614.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> 
> I'm using the xmlrpclib module to contact an XMLRPC
> server that takes a long time to send results back. My
> client timeouts.
> 
> The question is whether there is a way to have an
> xmlrpclib client that never timeouts. I have been
> searching for some code examples on how to do that,
> but I could not find any in the xmlrpclib
> documentation.
> 
> Thanks for any hints.

Hmm, I always thought that the XML-RPC client in the xmlrpclib
module was written already to do exactly that. Ie., it will block
until it gets a response. There is no timeout functionality within
it.

Is the server you are talking to within your own network, or are you
going through some sort of HTTP proxy either explicitly or 
implicitly, or even some sort of router equipment that does special
things with HTTP requests. HTTP proxies often have timeouts
such that if a request takes too long to get back a response, it
will drop the connection. In other words, the problem may not be
with the XML-RPC client but some part of the intermediate network.

Also, what is the XML-RPC server written in? Could it perhaps be
dropping the connection if the server side code takes too long?


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 19:43:31 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:43:31 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40579F33.CB547F8@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote
> 
> > >>> x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
> > >>> y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
> > >>> x is y
> >  True
> > >>> x = 'a b'
> > >>> y = 'a b'
> > >>> x is y
> >  False
> 
> Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is unspecified
> and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.

It's less useful for testing mere equivalence, yes, because that's not
what it's intended to do.  It tests identity.  Here whether the two
strings are not just equal but _identical objects_ is an implementation
detail.  If you ever rely on this behavior, your code will not be
portable to other implementations of Python.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Here day fights with night.
    -- (the last words of Victor Hugo)


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 10:39:59 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:39:59 +0100
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

>>>>>a='test'
>>>>>if a.find('foo'):
>>
>>...    print "foo was found"
>>...
>>foo was found
> 
> 
> a.find does not return a boolean, so that particular style guideline
> does not apply.
I know, but I found this on the Zope source, which
means that there is people thinking that the False
on python includes negative values.



From droog at orange.gov  Wed Mar 17 22:07:05 2004
From: droog at orange.gov (droog)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:07:05 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>

I was looking for the simpliest way of doing it. This is what I tried
to do. 

f = open('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt', 'r')
counter = 0
while True:
	line = f.readline()
	if len(line) == 0:
		break
	if line.find('customer'):
		counter = counter + 1
		print 'Found it ' + str(counter)

 

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:53:48 GMT, droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:

>
>Hello!
>
>I have just started learning python and encountered a problem.
>All I wanted to do, was to open a text file search and count the
>number of occurances of a single word and print that count.
>Thanks for help.



From kbk at shore.net  Fri Mar 19 00:28:15 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:28:15 GMT
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
	<slrnc5knh4.rft.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <87wu5hv21c.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

John Slimick <slimick at venango.upb.pitt.edu> writes:

> Prior to this I installed ActiveTCL8.4 .
>
> So I made what I thought were the appropriate
> changes to the "tkinter" section of Setup, I went up
> a level (to /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2),
> did a "make" and this is what I got:
>
>    file libtk8.4.so does not exist
>
> Well, when I do a locate, I find libtk8.4.so
> in
>
>    /usr/local/ActionTcl/lib/libtk8.4.so
>
> So I am caught with some kind of path problem.
>
> Any ideas or suggestions?

Your tk library is installed in a very non-standard location.  Python
can't find it.

I suggest you install tcl and tk from the RH rpms, here's tk, you can
search for tcl:

http://speakeasy.rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=tk&submit=Search+...&system=&arch=

Then put setup back the way it was and try again.

If you are going to use ActiveState products, then install the whole
package including their version of Python.  If you do that, then
direct further questions to them.

-- 
KBK


From dj00302003 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 15:04:46 2004
From: dj00302003 at yahoo.com (Jay Davis)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 12:04:46 -0800
Subject: Automatic web form transactions
Message-ID: <1d17eeb7.0403031204.466e4ca@posting.google.com>

We've been using the excellent ClientForms module with
urllib2 to read forms, fill them in, and then submit
with 'response = urlopen(form.click())'.  The process
usually works very well.

But some forms, which work straightforward in a
browser, don't work with form.click().  For instance,
in one simple form the response is:

"Sorry, this form cannot be posted to from external source."

I'm wondering if the reason it generates that response is
because it is looking for a standard browser.  In that
case, I should be able to send some browser string that it likes.
I don't think I can use the webbrowser module because 
while that lets you launch a browser, it doesn't have an
interface to fill in forms, click the submit button, and so on.

One obvious long term solution is for me to learn much
more about the details of html form processing, especially
low level details in the htmllib and ClientForm modules.
But a nice quick solution would be helpful too.

If its any use, the offending form is:

<form method=post action=/additem.php name=TaskForm>
<table border=0 cellpadding=4 cellspace=4>
<tr>
<td bgcolor=000090 width=95 align=left>
     <font face=arial size=2 color=ffffff>
	New Loc
     </font>
</td>
<td bgcolor=000090 align=left>
     <font size=2 face=arial color=ffffff>
     <input type=text name=newLoc value="http://" size=25 maxlength=255>
</td>
<td bgcolor=000090 align=center colspan=2>
     <font size=1 face=arial>
         <input type=submit value="Submit Form"> 
         <input type=reset value="Clear Form">
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<form>

Thanks,

J


From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Mar 14 23:02:30 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 20:02:30 -0800
Subject: .lstrip().rstrip() -> .strip() and other String/Unicode suggestions
References: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<14b36d18.0403050216.ad3a7f5@posting.google.com>
	<877jxzv10y.fsf@mrbun.watterson>
	<b19beb92.0403051302.456e024f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0403142002.d0a78bf@posting.google.com>

nikita_raja at yahoo.com (Sam Smith) wrote in message news:<b19beb92.0403051302.456e024f at posting.google.com>...
>     def characters(self, content):
>         self.content = self.content.lstrip().rstrip() + " " + content

FYI, you can just use the following, which is equivalent:

        self.content = self.content.strip() + u" " + content

Notice how I also maintain the Unicode object character of
self.content

Overall, it would be much more efficient to use cStringIO or even
treat self.content as a list and use

f.write(u' '.join(ReadXML.content))

Watch out for encoding issues on write if you do (rightly) stick to
Unicode objects: use a codec-wrapped output stream.

Concatenating strings with + is notoriously wasteful.

See, for example:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2000-August/003198.html

--Uche
http://uche.ogbuji.net


From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Mon Mar 15 09:51:39 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 06:51:39 -0800
Subject: Error Message & IDLE - PyShell
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0403150651.12f973cc@posting.google.com>

i wanna write python scripts in my LOCAL language, and wanna collect
the error msg in same language/font with IDLE or any other IDE ..can
help me ?
how its possible without touching python interpreter src code ?


ThanX in +vance !


From kobayashi at netcourrier.com  Mon Mar 29 04:33:33 2004
From: kobayashi at netcourrier.com (kobayashi)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 01:33:33 -0800
Subject: Readonly attributes ...
Message-ID: <fe8d7286.0403290133.15ee661f@posting.google.com>

Hi all python users,

A question about readonly attributes once again, but
even reading the threads about "properties" and "descriptors",
I can't find exactly what I want.

Let a developper to write the class

class A(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.x = 1
        self.setX(2)
        return
    def getX(self):
        return self.__x
    def setX(self, value):
        self.__x = value
        return
    x = property(getX, setX)
    pass

Of course, the developper can set the attribute 'x'
in the class ...

Now, the user part :

a = A()
print a.x
a.x = 1        # I want this operation to raise
print a.x
a.setX(23)     # I want this operation to raise too !!
print a.getX()

I can't find a way to do that ... but may be I've
missed something !

Cheers,

                K.


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:34:51 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:34:51 +1300
Subject: 2D List comprehension & replace
In-Reply-To: <mM84c.5095$u_5.4589@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA@comcast.com>
	<mM84c.5095$u_5.4589@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c2rb4r$21ftn5$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> "Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
> news:ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA at comcast.com...
> 
>>[[y or None for y in x] for x in l]
> 
> Well if that works, then this must too:
> 
>      [y or None for x in l for y in x]

No, that will give you a single-level list,
not a list of lists.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  6 20:09:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:09:25 -0500
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6Fu2c.2306$G3.18772@localhost>

Ed Cogburn wrote:

> David McNab wrote:
> 
>> My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the 
>> name of PMW.
> 
> Have you also tried wxPython?  I'm not advocating, just want to know if 
> you've also tried "the other one".  :)  What does PMW do for Tkinter?  
> I've seen opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than (standard) 
> Tkinter, but I've never seen PMW mentioned before when comparing the 
> two.  If you've used wxPython previously, how does Tkinter+PMW compare 
> to it?  Anyone?

I've used both, and didn't find PMW any more compelling than I found 
Tkinter alone.  I still find that wxPython fits my brain better and 
gives me better results.  This, however, is an area where individual 
mileage definitely varies, based on past reports here that strongly 
support either the one or the other approach depending on who's writing.

-Peter


From richard at cogsci.ed.ac.uk  Thu Mar 11 18:59:07 2004
From: richard at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 23:59:07 GMT
Subject: An XML parser is an XML parser.  Period.
References: <mailman.1428.1076438817.12720.python-list@python.org>
	<402931E4.C1E50E92@engcorp.com> <c0beqb$2uv$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40294322.7AF2C6D7@engcorp.com> <c0bh63$jp2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40294D36.B0AEE3C4@engcorp.com> <c0do15$tge$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<402A69C2.FC8DABA@engcorp.com> <402A84FF.42CCB137@hotmail.com>
	<402A87FD.5879C6DC@engcorp.com>
	<d116fbae.0402120629.330062bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2qugb$1qlh$1@pc-news.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>

> So once more: AFAICT PyRXPU is an XML parser.  PyRXP is certainly not
> an XML parser.  The substrate RXP is not an XML parser either when
> compiled without Unicode support and although I respect Thompson and
> Tobin as much as I do the PyRXP developers, they were really confusing
> themselves and others when they said "It complies fully with the W3C
> test suites (although we have compiled it without Unicode support for
> the time being)."

Sorry to respond to a thread long after its sell-by date.

Just for the record, the statement above was made by the PyRXP people,
not us.  RXP's 8-bit mode exists because it was originally written to
replace a "normalized SGML" parser in an existing (8-bit) application.
I wouldn't recommend compiling it in that mode for any except the most
constrained applications.

-- Richard


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 20:26:00 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:26:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
In-Reply-To: <404FBBA1.A8B53E8A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20040311012600.46688.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com>

Erik,

What do you mean by "where these Chinese characters
come from"?  I think I got lost.


--- Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> 
> > Another question: If I insert some Chinese
> characters
> > in the sample xml document, then again the same
> python
> > code cannot parse it. It python code got choked
> > whenever it hits the 1st Chiese character.
> > 
> > Python says:
> > 
> > ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line
> 3,
> > column 7
> > 
> > The problem remains even if I try
> encoding="UTF-16" or
> > encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
> > document.
> > 
> > Note that GB2312 and GBK are Chinese encodings.
> 
> If you're getting errors, then the encoding
> specified in the XML
> document type declaration doesn't patch what you've
> pasted in.  It
> matters where these Chinese characters come from,
> since they're going to
> be a part of some encoding and you haven't said what
> it was; if your
> document is UTF-8, you need to paste UTF-8 in.
> 
> -- 
>  __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com &&
> http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> /  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W &&
> &tSftDotIotE
> \__/ Love is the true price of love.
>     -- George Herbert
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From edcjones at erols.com  Fri Mar  5 07:20:21 2004
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:20:21 -0500
Subject: Python's equivalent of C++ std::multimap
In-Reply-To: <h37f40druvjf3qc2k9fmc4c9414q6mknc5@4ax.com>
References: <h37f40druvjf3qc2k9fmc4c9414q6mknc5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40487191$0$3103$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>

Boogie El Aceitoso wrote:

> What's Python's equivalent of C++'s std::multimap? Is there any 'multidict'?
> O:-)

See MultiDict.py at http://members.tripod.com/~edcjones/pycode.html


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Mar 27 11:51:02 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:51:02 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b8ptboh4ig4a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1080406261.496998@yasure>

Quoth claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird):
...
| I *really* don't know how to respond to this; a
| sentence with "sed", "conditional" and "convenient"
| leaves me at a loss.

I personally find sed more frustrating than useful, for anything
past the common one-line application.  But I know of a very
accomplished sed programmer for whom it's the other way around -
not only can he solve complex problems in sed, he once professed
to be baffled by the common structured-procedural languages.
I reckon him to be a person of extraordinary intellect, because
of his exceptional ability with sed, but he was pretty firmly
convinced that he couldn't do much with a programming language
like C or Python.  Of course not a programmer by trade. I believe
he never did go on to prove himself wrong on that.

In my opinion, it's a matter of very deep learning about how to
solve problems.  Most of us were introduced to programming with
procedural languages - BASIC, assembler, Pascal, FORTRAN and so
on, which for all their differences are essentially the same in
principle when it comes to solving a problem.  We can move from
one of these languages to another fairly easily, but not sed -
what's the point of such a useless language!  But here are these
few, mostly non-programmers, who started with sed and can do
amazing things with it.  We see a crippling lack of features,
where they see spartan elegance, because at a very fundamental
level they get it and we don't.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 11:26:45 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:26:45 GMT
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
	<c46dp1$6be$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc6dd9b.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c46hup$d9d$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6dtge.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c46hup$d9d$05$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten wrote:
> Joe Mason wrote:
> 
>>>> I think it would be cool for my "AutoText" class (see below, hereby
>>>> GPL'd) to be able to tell what subclasses inherit from it and
>>>> instantiate objects for all of those subclasses to implement a "AutoAll"
>>>> function.. Any ideas?
>> 
>> Actually, somebody pointed out in the other thread that Python has a
>> __subclasses__ function, so AutoAll can just do "for i in
>> AutoText.__subclasses__:".
> 
> My first reaction was disbelief :-) Now we can change
> 
> # add as base whenever you create a new subclass of AutoText
> class AutoAll(AutoUrl, AutoEmphasis): 
>     pass
> 
> to
> 
> AutoAll = type("AutoAll", tuple(AutoText.__subclasses__()), {})

Woah.  That's a weird one.  You're on the right track, but what you're
doing here is creating a class with absolutely nothing in it - not even
the default attributes that I'll show below.  What you really want to do
is make class normally, but only override the base classes.

Fortunately, that's even easier:

    class AutoAll(tuple(AutoText.__subclasses__())):
        pass

... except that doesn't work, and nobody's been able to explain to me
why not.

So, I'll turn to metaclasses for the clean solution.  But first:

> Do you know what the last dictionary parameter of type() is for? A cursory
> glance over the 2.3 library did not bring up a usecase of type() with three
> parameters.

It's the __dict__ of the class that's about to be created:

>>> class Verbose(type):
...     def __new__(*args):
...             print "new: ", args
...             return type.__new__(*args)
...     def __init__(*args):
...             print "init: ", args
...             type.__init__(*args)
... 
>>> class Empty(object): __metaclass__ = Verbose
... 
new:  (<class '__main__.Verbose'>, 'Empty', (<type 'object'>,), {'__module__': '__main__', '__metaclass__': <class '__main__.Verbose'>})
init:  (<class '__main__.Empty'>, 'Empty', (<type 'object'>,), {'__module__': '__main__', '__metaclass__': <class '__main__.Verbose'>})
>>> class HasAnAttr(Empty): x = 1
... 
new:  (<class '__main__.Verbose'>, 'HasAnAttr', (<class '__main__.Empty'>,), {'x': 1, '__module__': '__main__'})
init:  (<class '__main__.HasAnAttr'>, 'HasAnAttr', (<class '__main__.Empty'>,), {'x': 1, '__module__': '__main__'})

(Hmm, I guess the __metaclass__ means that first one is not Empty after
all...)

The metaclass I just made hooks in to the class creation, in this case
just to print some extra stuff and then call the normal one.  Here's one
that replaces the bases cleanly:

    class AutoTextSubclasses(type):
        def __new__(metaclass, name, bases, attrs):
            return type.__new__(metaclass, name,
                tuple(AutoText.__subclasses__()), attrs)

    class AutoAll: __metaclass__ = AutoTextSubclasses

That'll throw away the normal "bases" list, and do the same thing your
type class did - make "bases" out of __subclasses__ - except it passes
through the attrs unchanged.

(You can replace both uses of "type" in AutoTextSubclasses with Verbose
to see what's happening.)

Joe


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Wed Mar 31 06:21:19 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:21:19 +0200
Subject: python & mysql probelm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.460.1080336449.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.460.1080336449.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4e9jf$2gq8i4$1@uni-berlin.de>

Robert Brewer schrieb:
> james blair wrote:
> 
>>I am having a problem executing following query:
>>cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
>>and '%s'"%(id1,id2))
> Try dropping the single quotes around each %s
> 
> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid "
>                "between %s and %s" % (id1, id2))

But why not use a genuine parametrized query:

cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid "
                "between %s and %s", (id1, id2))

Especially if you need to execute the same query several times with 
changing parameters this is faster as far as I know, because the query 
is prepared once.

Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz  Wed Mar 24 20:21:40 2004
From: guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz (Guy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:21:40 +1200
Subject: confused with xml and minidom
Message-ID: <c3tc72$4dm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

Hello,

I've got an xhtml file which contains a number of html tables.

I want to parse these tables and based on values in the TD cells of the 
body of the table delete the row and replace it with additional rows. 
Then write the xhtml file to a new file.

so input.xhtml

<table>
	<tbody>
		<tr>
			<td>param</td>
			<td>param2</td>
			<td>param3</td>
		</tr>
	</tbody>
</table>

becomes output.xhtml

<table>
	<tbody>
		<tr>
			<td>r1v1</td>
			<td>r1v2</td>
			<td>r1v3</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>r2v1</td>
			<td>r2v2</td>
			<td>r2v3</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>r3v1</td>
			<td>r3v2</td>
			<td>r3v3</td>
			
		</tr>
		... etc
	</tbody>
</table>

if I get the table by:

xmldoc = minidom.parse('templates/input.xhtml')
table = xmldoc.getElementsByTagName('table')

how do I then get the first row of with the parameters. Delete this row 
and insert the new rows?

table.childnode('tbody').getElementsByTagname('tr') doesn't work.

Any help or examples of what I'm trying to do appreciated.

Thanks,

Guy


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 12:56:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:56:06 -0600
Subject: String formatting with floats... can't get it!
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837B4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837B4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <16481.52150.849798.685939@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >>> '%2.2f' % 2.33
    '2.33'

    Facundo> Why in this last line I don't get ' 2.33'?

Because the total field width you declared was only 2.  You need a field
width of at least 5 to get a space preceeding the one's digit:

    >>> '%5.2f' % 2.33
    ' 2.33'

The two digits in the format specifier don't add.  The first digit is the
overall width of the field.  The second digit is how much precision to
display to the right of the decimal point.

Skip



From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Fri Mar 12 13:55:48 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:55:48 +0100
Subject: overloading __getattr__ and inheriting from dict
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.12.18.55.48.225006@ifrance.com>

class TargetWrapper(dict):

    def __init__(self, **kwargs):
        dict.__init__(self, kwargs)

    __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
    __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
    __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__



then 

tw = TargetWrapper()
tw.a = "spam" # ok
del tw.a # ok
tw.b = "egg"
print tw.b

last line give me an
AttributeError: 'TargetWrapper' object has no attribute 'b'

if i define

    def __getitem__(self, name):
        return dict.__getitem__(self, name)

    __getattr__ = __getitem__

then the accessing the b attribute is ok. what's wrong ?


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 14 10:04:42 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 10:04:42 -0500
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
	<mailman.17.1079238303.745.python-list@python.org>
	<jmq850dtu0v0tvg9rc42h8fihfl6pef35d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c31saa$8l0$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <jmq850dtu0v0tvg9rc42h8fihfl6pef35d at 4ax.com>,
Gon?alo Rodrigues  <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:24:59 -0500, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>
>wrote:
>>[montezum]
>>>
>>> where can I find Paris Hilton video?
>>
>>comp.lang.perl.misc
>
><Settling down after a huge frame-shaking laugh>
>
>QOTW (What the QUOTM or even QUOTY!)

Seconded!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From jdrugo at gmx.at  Sun Mar  7 16:56:20 2004
From: jdrugo at gmx.at (Jan Drugowitsch)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:56:20 +0000
Subject: ImportError when trying to import own C++ module
Message-ID: <200403072156.25664.jdrugo@gmx.at>

Hi everyone!

I am trying to access a C++ class which is wrapped in a Python object from 
another C++ class which is also wrapped in a Python object. I have used the 
following file structure:

AClass.h:
Declaration of AClass
typedef of PyObject containing AClass

AClass.cpp:
Including AClass.h
Implementation of AClass

PyAClass.cpp:
Including AClass.h
Python interface to access AClass

BClass.cpp:
Including AClass.h
Declaration of BClass
Implementation of BClass
Python interface to access BClass

AClass has the methods
unsigned int value() const;  // reading private value
void setValue(const unsiged int);  // setting private value

BClass has the method
unsigned int value(const AClass* aclass) const; // returning aclass->value()

(remember: just a proof-of-concept)

I'm using DistUtils to compile the libraries. AClass.so links AClass.cpp and 
PyAClass.cpp, BClass.so links BClass.cpp and AClass.cpp.
Using AClass in Python works without problems, importing BClass, however, 
gives the following error:

>>> import BClass
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: ./BClass.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK6AClass5valueEv

BClass.so, however, seems to contain that symbol:

% nm BClass.so | grep _ZNK6AClass5valueEv
         U _ZNK6AClass5valueEv

Any ideas what can go wrong there?
Any hints are appreciated

Cheers,
Jan

P.S.: I'm sorry if this question has been asked a thousand times. It is very 
hard to search for in the archives as 'ImportError' is usually a bug in some 
software and no solution is given to resolve it.
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From bojohan+news at dd.chalmers.se  Fri Mar 19 20:41:22 2004
From: bojohan+news at dd.chalmers.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?Johan_Bockg=E5rd?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:41:22 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch> <c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch> <c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
	<donn-60551B.16462317032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<tyf65d18c2c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<donn-624AB5.10440419032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <yoijvfl0e1ml.fsf@frealaf.dd.chalmers.se>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

>   module Main (main) where
>
>   diff a b | a < b = b - a
>            | otherwise = a - b
>
>   main = do
>         putStrLn (show (diff 2 5))
>         putStrLn (show (diff 2.3 5))
>
> $ runhugs num.hs
> 3
> 2.7
>
> Haskell automatically converts between numeric types, to perform
> arithmetic including comparisons.

Haskell has no implicit conversions. What you see is an effect of
having overloaded numeric constants.

Prelude> :type 0 :: Int
0 :: Int
Prelude> :type 0 :: Float
0 :: Float

0 is not an Int here:

Prelude> let x = 0 in 1.0+x
1.0

The type of x is never converted, so this does not work:

Prelude> let x = 0::Int in 1.0+x
ERROR: Illegal Haskell 98 class constraint in inferred type
*** Expression : let {...} in 1.0 + x
*** Type       : Fractional Int => Int

-- 
Johan Bockg?rd


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 26 16:54:51 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:51 -0700
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000, Peter Hickman
<peter at semantico.com> wrote:

>Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like' 
>language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
>
>Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what 
>makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define 
>scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed 
>from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.

What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
to be just templates to produce other objects.

I downloaded the interpreter, and it installed flawlessly on my XP
machine!  I ran through the examples from their webpage, and they
worked as shown!  As I am generating objects from prototypes, I am
thinking - How can this be so simple?  Surely we must need classes for
something.  What about static methods?  Is all of this just cruft in
Python?

The torture never stops. :>)

-- Dave



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar 19 01:30:45 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 22:30:45 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>
	<405A5EC9.6010503@yahoo.com.au>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403182230.49e90fac@posting.google.com>

Steve <dippyd at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<405A5EC9.6010503 at yahoo.com.au>...
> Asun Friere wrote:
> 
> > In fact __eq__ can be redefined even /so as to be an equivalence
> > relation/ such that x==y => True and x is y => False.  The
> > 'fundamental properties' posisted, are simply not fundamental.
> 
> I think you have mis-read those fundamental properties. 
> They were:
> 
> (1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" 
> yields True.
> 
> (2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True. 
> Equivalently, if "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also 
> yields False.
> 
> Property (2) assumes that __eq__ implements an 
> equivalence relation.
> 
> Notice that your objection that x==y returns True and x 
> is y returns False is *not* one of those properties.

You're right I did misread them.  Mea culpa!

> I don't think the argument that one can redefine __eq__ 
> to be something other than an equivalence relation is a 
> particularly strong argument. I would call that a bug, 
> even if it is a deliberate bug. If "==" doesn't do 
> equality, then it is an exceedingly bad piece of design.

I don't think you can call the intended and and expected behaviour of
a program a 'bug.'  On the other hand, apart from trying to show that
these properties are not truely 'fundamental,' I find it difficult to
conceive of a useful application of this kind of redefinition of the
equivalence function.  So yes, we should expect that identical objects
also to be equivalent.

In any case, now that you brought me back to what Andrew Koenig
actually wrote, I accept his propositions should hold true when __eq__
implements what could justifiably be called an equivalence function,
whether they are rightly called 'fundamental' or not.


From patois at calvix.org  Sat Mar 20 03:56:20 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:56:20 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3g5nr$mcp$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
	<c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<c3g5nr$mcp$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c3h10s$fbu$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> But I dont know, I wont say that this has to be fixed in any way 
>> outside of the programmer's code. 
> I've never seen python modules named like: valid_name.1.py

Well, I wrote one (it's generated names, that's why it happenned) ;)

> Considering that you have shown that it does not work, and that there is 
> documentation stating that it is not /meant/ to work

The doc is not so explicit. It says that hierarchical modules are not 
handled by load_module(), fine, i dont want to handle hierarchicals one, 
just a simple one that has a don in its name.

> then the error is 
> in the way /you/ name /your/ modules, not the way Python handles 
> /incorrectly/ named modules.

That's exactly what I said, and I tend to believe it.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From vonehr at ipm.fhg.de  Tue Mar 30 02:57:14 2004
From: vonehr at ipm.fhg.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:57:14 +0200
Subject: queue for large objects, object references
Message-ID: <c4b96q$o5f$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

in a data acquisition program I have several threads,
one thread grabbing images and another doing some
processing.
I'd like to make my own image class containing the image
and additional information (a lot of data, some Megabytes).
Then I'd like to transfer this object to another thread.
I tried to transfer an image over a queue and it works!
(see code below)
Is the data transferred or only a reference?
How could I hold the data global and transfer only a reference
that no data has to be copied (speed, memory)?

Thanks for any answer,

Markus

**************************************
import Image
import Queue
import thread
import time

class Send:
     def __init__(self, queue, filename):
         self.queue = queue
         self.image = Image.open(filename, 'r')

     def send(self):
         self.queue.put(self.image)

class Recv:
     def __init__(self, queue):
         self.queue = queue
         thread.start_new_thread(self.MyThread, (10,))

     def MyThread(self, start):
         while 1:
             while not self.queue.empty():
                 img = self.queue.get()
                 img.save("result.bmp")

             time.sleep(0.3)


msgq = Queue.Queue(0)

sender = Send(msgq, "test.bmp")
receiver = Recv(msgq)

sender.send()
time.sleep(2)


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 15 07:58:30 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:58:30 GMT
Subject: overloading __getattr__ and inheriting from dict
References: <pan.2004.03.12.18.55.48.225006@ifrance.com>
Message-ID: <m3k71m9si1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Beno?t Dejean <bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com> writes:

> class TargetWrapper(dict):
> 
>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>         dict.__init__(self, kwargs)
> 
>     __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
>     __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
>     __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__
> 
> 
> 
> then 
> 
> tw = TargetWrapper()
> tw.a = "spam" # ok
> del tw.a # ok
> tw.b = "egg"
> print tw.b
> 
> last line give me an
> AttributeError: 'TargetWrapper' object has no attribute 'b'
> 
> if i define
> 
>     def __getitem__(self, name):
>         return dict.__getitem__(self, name)
> 
>     __getattr__ = __getitem__
> 
> then the accessing the b attribute is ok. what's wrong ?

I'm not sure, but changing 

    __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__

to 

    __getattribute__ = dict.__getitem__

makes things behave more like I think you expect.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Of course, it obviously is beta hardware so such things are to be
  expected, but that doesn't mean that you can't point your fingers
  and generate a nelson style HAHA at a multi billion dollar
  corporation's expense.                   -- CmdrTaco on slashdot.org


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar  1 03:14:29 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 09:14:29 +0100
Subject: Some language proposals.
References: <slrnc3mss6.pob.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<tyfwu6bmfhx.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1iuj5$7q3$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<tyfoermmgp7.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1l1au$nn4$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<tyfvfltaqkb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1rn19$p6r$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <tyfad31asre.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

> Perhaps you want the below.  You seem to be interested in doing things
> with classes and not instances.
> 
> 
> class Callable:
>      def __call__(self):
>          print "!"
> 
> class C:
>      foo = Callable()
> 
>   - Josiah

Perhaps you want to read <tyfk72amei6.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch> again:

http://www.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_umsgid=tyfk72amei6.fsf%40pcepsft001.cern.ch&lr=&hl=en

Here's the relevant part:

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> >>> class foo: pass
> ... 
> >>> class callable:
> ...     def __call__(self): print self
> ... 
> >>> instance = callable()
> >>> def meth(self): print self
> ... 
> >>> foo.meth = meth
> >>> foo.instance = instance
> >>> f = foo()
> >>> f
> <__main__.foo instance at 0x815fa64>
> >>> f.meth()
> <__main__.foo instance at 0x815fa64>  # self == f  
> >>> f.instance()
> <__main__.callable instance at 0x815f624>  # self != f
> >>> f.meth
> <bound method foo.meth of <__main__.foo instance at 0x815fa64>>
> >>> f.instance
> <__main__.callable instance at 0x815f624>  # Hmm, it's not a method
> >>> 
> 
> meth behaves like a Python method, instance does not.


From jkn at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 09:32:24 2004
From: jkn at nicorp.f9.co.uk (Jon Nicoll)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 06:32:24 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8351bb33.0403220632.5becbc0c@posting.google.com>

Hi Peter

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message news:<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>...

[...]

> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> > Such reactions always astonish me, especially given the good guy I know
> > I am! :-) In French (maybe in English too?) we say that we "put white
> > gloves" when we get extremely cautious ...
> 
> The UK English phrase would be to "put on kid gloves" kid gloves being 
> very soft and gentle type of leather (supposedly made from juveniles).

er, I think 'supposedly made from [the skin of] juvenile _goats_ ...'

    Regards
    Jon N


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar  3 03:02:29 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:02:29 +0100
Subject: py2exe in Windowsxp
References: <38f75b16.0403022320.1f56ce00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <brneiciy.fsf@python.net>

vijay_srr at yahoo.com (Vijay) writes:

> Hello,
>
> Is py2exe 0.5.0 supported in Windows XP? In the project homepage in
> SourceForge.net, only Win95/95/2000 are listed.

Sure.  I will correct that.

Thanks,

Thomas




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Mar 22 10:11:04 2004
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 17:11:04 +0200
Subject: In what python release was this introduced..
References: <74dd441a.0403220126.12ec063f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gu47jxcsyrb.fsf@ee.oulu.fi>

htgk at mail.com (Moe A) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> i need to list dependencies for my package & was wondering in what
> python release could you start making 'in <string>' calls with more
> than one char..eg:
> 
> "JESUS" in bible
> 
> instead of
> 
> "J" in bible

more new and improved sequence/iterators behaviour fun:

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Jan 13 2004, 00:47:05)
[GCC 3.3.3 20040110 (prerelease) (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'x'.join({'foo': 'bar'})
'foo'

i actually ran into this when i was staring at code written
by a coworker and wondered how on earth it ever worked...
(it didn't, since it really meant to use a list and wanted
order to be preserved, but it misbehaved silently instead of
raising an exception).

  -- erno


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Mar  8 15:15:16 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 20:15:16 +0000
Subject: Mailing list hosting?
References: <8765dhd2dr.fsf@pobox.com>
	<mailman.94.1078651671.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878yibccyz.fsf@pobox.com>

OK, freelists.org *was* promising.  The submit button on the signup
page leads to a page displaying raw HTML with no content of interest.
I guess the site is no longer active.


John


From godoy at ieee.org  Wed Mar 24 07:15:50 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:15:50 -0300
Subject: Abstraction library for Authentication (module like PEAR Auth)
References: <899f842.0403230824.4a4ba0ab@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.310.1080090501.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dra8j1-s93.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Ter 23 Mar 2004 22:08, Stuart Bishop wrote:

> If you don't mean login via form web authentication, I don't see
> much point - its just a call to an authenticate(username, password)
> method for the protocols you mention. And if you introduce other
> protocols such as Kerberos, Passport, biometric, or challenge
> response schemes the abstraction would become too complex to be
> generally useful.

One can always rely on PAM... It can talk to different sources and any other
authentication can be implemented, provided that it has a plugin and return
the right values for success/failure. 

Your interface would be with PAM only and then PAM would talk to the rest of
the authentication system.

-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar 29 14:27:03 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:27:03 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org><106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com><406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c49ta0$t79$1@sea.gmane.org>


"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:106gg1jifa2n9c2 at news.supernews.com...
> I think you misunderstood. There is no "standard" length of
> a tab. A tab is supposed to insert (or otherwise render the
> equivalent of inserting) enough spaces to go to the next "tab stop",
> which by convention is a multiple of 8 columns on a fixed
> width mechanical typewriter. This is where tabs originated.

Actually, the mechanical typewrite standard (in US, 1960s) was every 5
spaces == 1/2 inch (10 chars per inch, fixed).  That was also the standard
paragraph indent.  WordPerferct, for one program, stuck with 1/2 inch even
as it accommodated different fixed and variable pitched fonts.  I remember
thinking 8 spaces a bit weird when I first used Unix (early 80s).
Power-of-2 4 and 8 are computerisms.  Don't remember about Teletypes, nor
about typewriters in non-inch countries.

Terry J. Reedy






From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 09:46:33 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:46:33 -0600
Subject: Reload() Confusion
In-Reply-To: <VvMXAls/K7NM089yn@the-wire.com>
References: <u4l450hv7isekpk09upvhcpi3b18m3p8a7@4ax.com>
	<VvMXAls/K7NM089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <16477.43721.529162.718723@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> It is my understanding that the reloaded objects become *new* objects
    >> in memory, available only via a fully-qualified reference to the new
    >> module.  The old objects remain in memory until the last reference to
    >> them is gone.

    Mel> It seems to me that the module keeps its identity over the reload:

Yup.  The module remains the same, but its __dict__ is repopulated.

Skip



From pycon at python.org  Wed Mar 10 16:37:31 2004
From: pycon at python.org (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:31 -0500
Subject: View Talks - Buy 'Zen of Python' Tshirt - Free with PyCON by 17th
Message-ID: <E1B1BON-0000Ba-SJ@mail.python.org>


Dear Python User:

View the Talks online and Reserve your Zen of Python Shirt now or get one
free if you register for PyCON 2004 by the 17th.

Don't miss the most important Python event of the year.  PyCON 2004 is only
2 weeks away.  If you haven't registered for PyCON, please do so immediately
before the regular registration expires March 17th.
http://www.pycon.org/dc2004/register

We are extending the Free T-Shirt offer to all regular registrants (valued
at $20).  See the shirts online at
http://www.pycon.org/dc2004/shirts.pt

We are also taking orders for extra shirts, including shipping to those that
cannot attend.  Please email zope at toenjes.com to reserve your shirts.
All requests must be received by March 19.  Price will be $20 + $5 shipping
and handling.  We will ship them sometime around mid-April.
Payment instructions from the Python Software Foundation will follow.

The Talks schedule is now published and can be viewed at
http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/schedule.html

For more about PyCON...
http://www.pycon.org


regards
Steve Holden
Chairman, PyCON DC 2004



From bob at redivi.com  Mon Mar  1 14:56:00 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:56:00 -0500
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<1045c7gfn9ipj38@corp.supernews.com>
	<1046gip10m5m9bc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2004030114560084492%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-01 09:02:01 -0500, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) said:

> In article <1045c7gfn9ipj38 at corp.supernews.com>,
> Robert M. Emmons <RobMEmmons at cs.com> wrote:
> 			.
> 		[apt comments]
> 			.
> 			.
>> What's not good in python:
>> 
>> *  If speed is more important than coding time use C/C++ instead.
>> *  If you want to obscruate your code maybe a compiled langague is better.
>> 
>> Rob
> 
> Note the availability of pyobfuscate <URL:
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/ >.
> 
> Myself, in the absence of more details, I advise people for
> whom speed is important to work in Python--but be prepared
> to combine it with C coding (or even assembler!  I've been
> experimenting lately ...).

One thing to note is that it is *reasonable* to combine C, C++, 
assembly, etc with Python because the Python API is consistent and 
understandable, and doesn't require a confusing "precompiler" (though, 
Pyrex is a great one).

-bob



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  9 11:59:39 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 16:59:39 GMT
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2kt5q$1uonf0$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Oliver Kurz <olku at web.de> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list without using eval or exec?
> 
> The string looks like:
> 
> '[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc","abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'
> 
> and should be converted to a list:
> 
> [['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], 'abc'], ['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], ['abc', ['abc', 'abc']], 'abc'], 'abc']
> 
> I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.

- write to a file
- load the file as module :-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 16:06:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:06:26 -0600
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <16471.27730.251856.976365@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Skip> Python: yes.  I don't know about Java or C# but my guess is that
    Skip> since C++ has casts you can make it do some type unsafe things.

Sorry to follow up to my own post, but unions also create type unsafety.
Unlike Pascal's records (remember them?), C/C++ unions are not
discriminated, so you can write values into the union using one slot and
read using another:

    #include <stdio.h>
    int main(int argc, char *argv[])
    {
        union {
            float f;
            int i;
        } x;

        x.f = 3.14159;
        fprintf(stderr, "%x\n", x.i);
    }

(pause while Skip reboots the one neuron that knows anything about unions
and compiles this to see if he's got it right...) which produces:

    % make foo
    cc    -c -o foo.o foo.c
    cc   foo.o   -o foo
    % ./foo
    40490fd0

Skip

    

    



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 04:16:48 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:16:48 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4056c036$0$308$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
(snip)
> 
> Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
> so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is there
> something like it in Python?
> 
> Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> important requirement in a language?

No.



From owp at utanet.at  Wed Mar 17 03:41:05 2004
From: owp at utanet.at (Simon Erikson)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 00:41:05 -0800
Subject: wxPython "Frames within Frames"
References: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>
	<YsqdnZQFKckH9crdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d37f8e.0403170041.338b417c@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<YsqdnZQFKckH9crdRVn-hQ at powergate.ca>...
> 
> (This is probably a somewhat religious matter, and in any case perhaps 
> you have very good reasons for wanting MDI, but just in case you aren't 
> set on doing it, other options might also be much simpler to code.)
> 
> -Peter

Thanks for your effort.
I am actually looking for something *other* than MDI; sorry for the confusion.
Simon.


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 00:15:09 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:15:09 -0800
Subject: tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <16490.15980.814876.690888@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106glq882vcn659@news.supernews.com>
	<4068AD29.6020907@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<16490.15980.814876.690888@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <406A53DD.6090105@mlug.missouri.edu>


>Not if that's what I asked it to do.  I have python-mode in Emacs set to use
>4-space indents and only insert SPACE characters, not TAB characters.
>Pressing the TAB key while the cursor is at the beginning of line inserts or
>deletes enough SPACEs to put the cursor at the correct indentation for the
>current line (based upon the indentation and content of the previous line).
>  
>
If you tell it to do that then that's fine. But then if you can do that 
then why can't you just tell the editor to handle tabs as tabs? The 
whole discussion being about why tabs should be removed because some 
editors are to stupid to handle them correctly, or maybe just some 
programmers are to stupid to tell their editor how to handle tabs. If 
you can tell the editor to not allow mixing of spaces and tabs then the 
entire issue would be moot.

>not if I placed my editor in e.e. cummings mode...
>  
>
That'd be rather funny. It reminds me of the time I wrote a projects 
documentation in Suess-like language.

>It has nothing to do with the editors considered in isolation.  By in large
>they are doing exactly what the programmers ask them to do.  The problem is
>with the interchange of program files between unlike systems (via whatever
>means: email, CVS checkins, grabbing from a web page, etc) which have tools
>(editors in particular) which interpret TAB characters differently based
>upon how the programmers have configured them.  To the best of my knowledge
>no systems interpret SPACE characters in weird ways, so using them to
>indicate indentation is the only foolproof solution.
>  
>
I have experienced the problem of cutting and pasting from some apps 
where tabs are replaced as spaces. Annoying, but still an error in those 
apps and not in Python. On the rare occassion that happens I just fix 
the code. I would like if Python could spit out warnings where tabs and 
spaces were mixed. That'd be a handy alert in cases where I might forget 
to fix a line.

I can see that the mishandling of tabs by certain apps is annoying. I 
just don't see how adding Python to that list will be any less annoying.



From stewart at midwinter.ca  Fri Mar 19 16:07:49 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 13:07:49 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0403191307.2968a6c1@posting.google.com>

Yannick Patois <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message news:<c3f1ac$n29$1 at sunnews.cern.ch>...
> If now I just *rename* file B to B.1, without any change in the code 
> (except name='B' become name='B.1' in aTest.py), content of B.1.py file 
> being exacty the same as content of B.py, I get:
> 
....

> Any idea ? Is it well a bug ? Some feature I didnt understood ? I read 
> about submodule naminig using dots as separator, but I cant relate it 
> towhat I saw here.

Salut Yannick:

J'ose offrir une r?ponse....

I work with submodules.  They're in some folder, which has subfolders
(call them fbm, uti, and a few others).  If I place an empty file in
my root folder called __init__.py, I can refer to modules in the
subfolders by a dot notation.  For example, if I have a file
process.py in subfolder fbm, I can say:
import fbm.process

I speculate that when you renamed B to B.1, Python interpreted your
intent to import a module called 1 in subfolder B.

J'esp?re que cela aide un peu!

Stewart


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Mar  3 12:01:33 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:01:33 -0800
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
In-Reply-To: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <404617fd$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

GrelEns wrote:

> hello,
> 
> having a list like ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'] i would like to get
> 
> [['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'],
> ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'],
> ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c','-', 'd']]
> 
> that is adding successively an item between at all the available place, and
> i just can't get my brain doing that :(
Maybe:
Think of all possible places.  How many are there?  At each of these
places you either put a dash or not.  Sounds like binary to me.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Mar 28 10:15:10 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 07:15:10 -0800
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
	<slrnc6cgt9.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403280715.18292937@posting.google.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc6cgt9.ctd.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> Check out http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/python/meta1.html and
> http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/python/meta2.html.  

Those links refer to the drafts on my personal home page. They could
disappear. It is much better to refer to the published versions (which
are also fancier):

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta.html
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta2

The only advantages of the drafts is that you can get the reStructuredText
version, convert it to PDF and print it. 

  Michele Simionato


From guido at python.org  Wed Mar 10 00:01:11 2004
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:01:11 -0800
Subject: PyCON: Pre-registration ends in one week!
Message-ID: <200403100501.i2A51BM03182@guido.python.org>

In one week (Weds March 17), pre-registration for PyCON will close.
Right now, you can register for $250.  After that, you will need to
register at the door, and the cost will be $300.  Save yourself $50!


PyCON is a community-oriented conference targeting developers (both
those using Python and those working on the Python project).  It gives
you opportunities to learn about significant advances in the Python
development community, to participate in a programming sprint with
some of the leading minds in the Open Source community, and to meet
fellow developers from around the world.  The organizers work to make
the conference affordable and accessible to all.

DC 2004 will be held March 24-26, 2004 in Washington, D.C. at the GWU
Cafritz Conference Center.  The keynote speakers are Mitch Kapor, Guido
van Rossum, and Bruce Eckel.  There will be a four-day development sprint
before the conference (March 20-23).

We're looking for volunteers to help run PyCON.  If you're interested,
subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-organizers

Don't miss any PyCON announcements!  Subscribe to
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-announce

You can discuss PyCON with other interested people by subscribing to
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-interest

The central resource for PyCON DC 2004 is
http://www.pycon.org/dc2004/


See you all there!!!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Mar 20 09:11:46 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:11:46 GMT
Subject: Import a module from parent package
References: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CiY6c.37374$PY.5473@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Peter L. Buschman <plb at iotk.com> wrote:
> I have a package tree laid out like this
>
> foo/bar/module/submodule
> foo/bar/module/submodule/test
> foo/bar/module/submodule/test/test1.py
> foo/bar/module/submodule/test/test2.py
> ...
>
> What I want is for test1.py and test2.py to be able
> to import their parent "submodule" as part of a regression
> testing scheme.  I could do this by putting "import foo.bar.module.submodule"
> in them, but this code won't necessarily always be installed in foo/bar.
>
> Is there a way to do something like this from test1.py and test2.py?
>
> import __parent__.__parent__.submodule
>
> That way, no matter where the entire "module" package gets installed, the
> regression tests will always be able to find and import their parent modules
> whose functionality they need to test.
>
> Essentially, this is like referencing ../../submodule from the command-line.

I needed something very similar last year; I had this directory structure:

topdir/
topdir/usefulmodule.py
topdir/subdir1/
topdir/subdir1/somecode.py
topdir/subdir2/
topdir/subdir2/morecode.py

Both somecode.py and morecode.py needed to use functions from
usefulmodule.py. I solved it as follows:

----- Begin somecode.py -----
import os
import sys
# Other imports...
sys.path.append('..')
import usefulmodule
sys.path.remove('..')
.
.
.
------ End somecode.py ------

----- Begin othercode.py -----
import os
import sys
# Other imports...
sys.path.append('..')
import usefulmodule
sys.path.remove('..')
.
.
.
------ End othercode.py ------

In your case, you'd want to add '../..' to sys.path. I think this will
solve your problem.

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 17:33:54 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 14:33:54 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote...
> I will reiterate my comment from before:  PEP 318 is about more than just
> static and class methods.  Here are a few examples from the python-dev
> discussion.

You (and Stephen Horne) got your point.

Passing that grep over 3rd party packages might be interesting too...

On other note, regarding the initial subject of this thread: Is there
going to be any voting poll about the syntax in foreseeable future? My
preferred style would be the "standard" one proposed in the PEP.

Cheers,

AdSR


From derekledbetter at mindspring.com  Fri Mar 19 02:07:57 2004
From: derekledbetter at mindspring.com (Derek Ledbetter)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:07:57 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
	<c2sqva$dp0$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <0001HW.BC7FDC4D003B1D7CF0284600@netnews.comcast.net>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 9:08:10 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote
(in message <c2sqva$dp0$1 at news.service.uci.edu>):

> Personally, I find most standard IDEs to be bloated pieces of shit. 
> When did it become reasonable to need 100+ megs to edit source code?

Not all IDEs are this large.  For instance, Apple's Project Builder
(version 2.1) is 2.6 MB, while the Mac version of CodeWarrior Pro 8 is
9.9 MB.  These sizes are just the executables, and don't include
compilers, linkers, libraries, headers, documentation and examples.  But
you would need all these things for a command line based development
environment.

-- 
Derek Ledbetter
derekl at serve.com

Heavy boots of lead 
fills his victims full of dread 
Running as fast as they can 
Iron Man lives again! 




From plb at iotk.com  Sat Mar 20 09:42:34 2004
From: plb at iotk.com (Peter L. Buschman)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 06:42:34 -0800
Subject: Import a module from parent package
References: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>
	<UcWdnUQuiJFZHcbdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1a884f4a.0403200642.697cdafb@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the info guys! :)

--PLB

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<UcWdnUQuiJFZHcbdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
> Peter L. Buschman wrote:
> 
> > That way, no matter where the entire "module" package gets installed, the
> > regression tests will always be able to find and import their parent modules
> > whose functionality they need to test.
> > 
> > Essentially, this is like referencing ../../submodule from the command-line.
> 
> See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0328.html for what would appear to be 
> some related material.
> 
> -Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 13 14:07:48 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 14:07:48 -0500
Subject: need optimizing help
References: <68aadb4a.0403131007.8eeeb26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2vm64$omk$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <68aadb4a.0403131007.8eeeb26 at posting.google.com>,
rabbits77 <rabbits77 at bigmailbox.net> wrote:
>
>I have a dictionary with a very very large(possibly millions) of
>key/value pairs.

If it's literally millions, you probably want to use a database.  Just
the dictionary itself (not even talking about the objects used for keys
and values) will take at least 12MB per million entries on a machine with
32-bit addresses.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From leo at bella.local  Wed Mar 10 06:17:20 2004
From: leo at bella.local (leo)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 22:17:20 +1100
Subject: name of this python program
Message-ID: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>

hi there

when i start a python script with 
        python myprog.py 
how can i find out the name of my script ("myprog.py") inside the script
itself. looking for something like args[0]...

cheers, leo


From noelrivera at excite.com  Sun Mar  7 00:42:32 2004
From: noelrivera at excite.com (fossil_blue)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 21:42:32 -0800
Subject: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class
Message-ID: <c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1@posting.google.com>

Why we can't define a list as a private variable in a class such as 

__SYMTAB = [ ]

class Myclass:
      def __init__(self):
		#some constructor here
     
      def __PlayWithList(arg1):
	# This doesn't work it compains about not having not having attribute
index or append
	# Why?
	try: self.__SYMTAB.index(arg1)  
	except ValueError: self.__SYMTAB.append(arg1)
   
But it the list was public SYMTAB = [ ] it would work. Why?


Thanks,
Noel


From remy.blank_asps at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 04:16:00 2004
From: remy.blank_asps at pobox.com (Remy Blank)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:16:00 +0100
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0403051620.40d3b42@posting.google.com>
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
	<6ee58e07.0403051620.40d3b42@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404d8b50$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>

Lothar Scholz said the following:
> Setup a test directory with data files and in the setUp method copy
> the items from the directory to a temporary directory. Do the tests
> with the temporary directory and remove it in the tearDown method.

That's a solution I rejected quite early, for the following reasons:

  - The simplest program I wrote has 64 test cases, and to ensure that 
tests are independent, I would have to re-create the test directory 
before every test. This is very time-consuming, and doesn't fit well 
with the "write test - run - failure - write code - run - success - 
refactor - run - success" coding cycle. Currently, the whole test
suite runs in less than a second.

  - One program is meant to be used by "root", because it changes file 
ownerships and modes. I definitely don't want to run my test suite as 
root (if only to avoid wiping my hard disk by error).

> This is the simplest case to avoid strange effects.

What strange effects do you expect (other than due to bugs in the mock 
file system, that can be avoided with an extensive test suite)?

-- Remy

Remove underscore and anti-spam suffix in reply address for a timely 
response.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 12 11:13:19 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 17:13:19 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:06:38 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:54:56 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
> >wrote:
> 
> >>Scopes are defined by the boundaries of functions, classes and
> >>modules, not for loops.  This is essential, or you would have to
> >>declare global variables inside most for loops.

> The one exception I can think of is what Terry Reedy mentioned - the
> iteration variable in a list comprehension.  In some future
> optimization, they may neglect to save that variable.  I hope they
> don't do that (even though it really has no use).  I just like the
> consistency we now have in treatment of all local variables.

You can maintain that consistency by extending the list of
"boundaries" which define scopes; you already mentioned classes,
functions and modules ... now simply add list comprehensions (or
loops), and you will maintain perfect consistency of treatment of
local variables, without leaking variables out of list comprehensions
(or loops).


From http  Mon Mar 22 18:20:47 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 15:20:47 -0800
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405f0803$0$15618$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405f148a$0$10522$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7xekrk31v4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> > Python advertises a "batteries included" approach to the library which
> > means it's supposed to include most of the stuff that users need,
> > instead of making them download the stuff from random places.
> 
> The 'batteries included' stuff is more a distribution / packaging
> issue than the standard library. At least coming from Tcl where we
> have a 'batteries included' distribution including all sorts of nice
> things. However this does not mean that they are part of the standard
> library.

Well, the contents of the standard library certainly sounds like a
distribution/packaging issue to me.  

> Simple feature / library count as a measure of progress is flawed. Big
> time need not equate with bloat, besides Perl has a massive library of
> modules (CPAN) but they are not part of the standard library and this
> has not held Perl back.

When there's enough stuff written for Python, maybe it will also get
something like CPAN.  However, CPAN is somewhat of a pain in the neck
compared to just including the needed stuff.  People do ask all the
time for a super-sized Perl distribution that includes everything from
CPAN, or includes lots more CPAN stuff than the standard distro does,
or even for a simple CD-ROM dump of the CPAN contents.

> We need to recognize the divide between language features and a basic
> distribution. A 'batteries included' distribution of Python, a la Tcl,
> which includes a selection of useful libraries is a good idea but
> there is no need to make it part of the standard library.
> 
> I want my Python in a Nutshell to be a single volume not an encyclopedia.

For sure, there's some attractiveness to making three separate
distros: minimal, normal (like the current one), and encyclopedic.
However, that's a lot of work, so the current strategy seems to be to
have one distro that strikes a reasonable balance between minimal and
encyclopedic, providing enough stuff to meet the needs of application
implementers in Python's targeted areas.  Right now there are
significant gaps in the library but with luck that will improve over
time.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 19:49:09 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 16:49:09 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
Message-ID: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>

Hello, all,

I am new to Python.

I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and write only
those between the tags to a text file.  In other words, if I have an
XML document like so:

<tag1>This</tag1>
    <tag2>is</tag2>
       <tag3>a</tag3>
<tag1>test</tag1>

I need to write "This is a test" to a text file.  How do I achieve
this?    Thanks.


From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Mon Mar 15 10:47:34 2004
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:47:34 -0500
Subject: PyCon BOF schedule
Message-ID: <1079365654.3337.83.camel@localhost.localdomain>

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PyConBofs

Sign up for PyCon Birds of a Feather (BOF) sessions, which will be held
on March 24 and 25, Wednesday and Thursday evenings, from 8 to 11 pm.
A BOF is an informal session, organized by attendees, to discuss a topic
of interest.  They are held in the evening so that they don't conflict
with talks.

Jeremy Hylton





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar  5 16:08:36 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:08:36 -0600
Subject: file.readline() after a seek() breaking up lines
In-Reply-To: <ba1b9669.0403051205.5d278f0b@posting.google.com>
References: <ba1b9669.0403051205.5d278f0b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040305210836.GI31275@unpythonic.net>

When you open a file in text mode, the only offsets that are valid for
'seek()' are ones returned by 'tell()' (or 0, presumably).  In practice,
you can seek to arbitrary offsets on most operating systems, though the
results on Windows are confused by the fact that text files store '\n'
as a two-byte sequence.  This is what the library reference means when
it says
    If the file is opened in text mode (mode 't'), only offsets returned
    by tell() are legal. Use of other offsets causes undefined behavior.
        http://python.org/doc/lib/bltin-file-objects.html

When you open a file in binary mode, all offsets less than the file
length are valid, but in a text file most of them will be in the middle
of a line. (they're byte offsets into a file you think of as being made
of individual lines)

So, anyway, when you seek to a random offset, you are usually in the middle of a
line, and the first readline() returns that partial line.

You can do one of several things:
* Read the file and gather all line offsets, then pick one of them
  (requires reading the whole file each time)
* Read the file in a line at a time and pick the word as you go (If
  this is the n'th line, then 1/n of the time replace the "line to be
  printed" with this line.  At the end of the file, print the line to be
  printed)
* Read the file once and write an index of offsets.  Then, pick a random
  offset from this file, seek to it, and read
* Pick a byte offset, and discard the first line read.  You'll never
  use the very first line of the file, and longer lines are preferred
  over shorter lines (actually, lines *following* longer lines are
  preferred...)
* Pick a byte offset and scan backwards until you get to the start of
  the file or the start of a line, then readline.  Again, longer lines
  are preferred over shorter lines by this method
* Create a record-oriented format, so that you can seek to a multiple
  of the record length and read a word.  All words must be shorter
  than reclen.

The old unix "fortune" program used the second method.  I'm sure there
are other things you could do as well.

Jeff



From Henrik.Weber at sdm.de  Tue Mar  9 09:00:15 2004
From: Henrik.Weber at sdm.de (Henrik Weber)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 06:00:15 -0800
Subject: Using Pythonwin to poke at Windows apps?
Message-ID: <44254d3d.0403090600.3b14d84c@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

I'm trying to read information about widgets from running instances of
win32 applications. My current victim is the Explorer on a XP box. I'm
trying to access the menu bar. On XP this is not a standard menu but a
toolbar. So far I can retrieve a PyCWnd object with win32ui:

>>> e = win32ui.FindWindow("ExploreWClass", None)
>>> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(e, None, "WorkerW", None)
>>> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ReBarWindow32", None)
>>> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
>>> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, t, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
>>> hex(t.GetSafeHwnd())
'0x602d8'
>>> print t
object 'PyCWnd' - assoc is 01275A88, vi=<None>, notify=0,ch/u=0/0,
mh=0, kh=0

I know that t now refers to a ToolbarWindow32 widget but seemingly
win32ui doesn't. Is there a way to get a PyCToolbar object from this?

Or do I have to continue by sending messages? I tried sending a
TB_GETBUTTON message with win32gui.SendMessage, using a Python array
to reserve some memory for the TBBUTTON structure, but so far I have
only succeeded in crashing the Explorer. What would be the right way
to send a message that needs some memory to put the results into?

Thanks

Henrik


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Mar 11 12:50:45 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:50:45 -0300
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338372E@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

I tested the following simple code:

-----------------
from Tkinter import *

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):

        frame = Frame(master)
        frame.pack()

        self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red",
command=frame.quit)
        self.button.pack(side=LEFT)

        self.hi_there = Button(frame, text="Hello", command=self.say_hi)
        self.hi_there.pack(side=LEFT)

    def say_hi(self):
        print "hi there, everyone!"

root = Tk()
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()
-----------------

I'm on Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32.

When I double click the program, it works OK.

When I execute it from IDLE, the first time I push the "QUIT" button, I just
receive a second prompt in IDLE and nothing else happens. The second time I
push the "QUIT" button, the program exits, but also exits IDLE!

Do you know what's happening? With this behaviour it's difficult to develop
using IDLE, :(

.	Facundo



From kkrueger at example.edu  Fri Mar 26 15:20:08 2004
From: kkrueger at example.edu (Karl A. Krueger)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:20:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mod_python exception catching,
	other repetitious per-page actions
References: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
	<mailman.455.1080325562.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4239m$nbq$1@baldur.whoi.edu>

Jacek Trzmiel <sc0rp at hot.pl> wrote:
> "Karl A. Krueger" wrote:
>> I'm in the middle of refactoring a small mod_python Web application,
>> which uses the Publisher handler.
> 
> I have never used Publisher handler myself.  Yes, I've read about it,
> but I've decided to not use it after seeing that I will have to
> explicitly tell which modules/functions I DON'T want external user to
> be able to run -  completely broken idea from security POV.

Actually, Publisher never exposes modules imported into yours.  It
traverses your module for names and types before exposing anything -- it
won't expose any object whose name begins with an underscore, or any
module.

(Oddly enough, it does expose exceptions, but just their string
representation.)

If anyone reading this is concerned about Publisher security, these
audit functions might help:

def AuditModuleForPublisher(module):
    import types
    for name in module.__dict__:
        object = module.__dict__[name]
        if name.startswith("_"):
            # name starts with an underscore, not exposed
            pass  
        elif type(object) == types.ModuleType:
            # object is a module, not exposed
            pass
        elif type(object) == types.FunctionType:
            print ":: Exposed function:", name
        elif isinstance(object, str) or isinstance(object, unicode):
            if "passw" in name or "PASSW" in name:
                 print "!! Your %s password is %s." % (name, object)
            else:
                print ":: Exposed string:", name
        else:
            print ":: Exposed variable:", name

A nicer one:

def SymbolsExposedToPublisher(module):
    return [ sym for sym in module.__dict__
             if (not sym.startswith("_")) 
             and (type(module.__dict__[sym]) != type(module)) ]

By enumerating the list of functions and variables you *intend* to
expose, a unit test should not be too hard to derive from this.


>> One thing I have considered is to handle _all_ the pages through a
>> single function, which would look up the specific pages by name:
> 
> If you do this then you may as well drop Publisher handler completely. 
> One handle() function will work for you.

I agree.  However, since I want the functionality of Publisher's
argument name mapping, that is not what I want to do.

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger at example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Mar 10 05:48:57 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 11:48:57 +0100
Subject: cmdline args to a piped python prog
References: <c2mdn3$12df$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <wzvfld3rl2.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "leo" <halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com> (L) wrote:

L> hi there
L> a python file can evaluate cmdline arguments like

L> python myprog.py arg1 arg2 arg3...

L> when i feed python with my program via terminal input like

L> cat myprog.py | python

L> how can i then specifiy the cmdline arguments arg1 arg2 arg3...?

You could say cat myprog.py | python - arg1 arg2 arg3
Then sys.argv[1:] contains the arguments.

By the way cat myprog.py | python * is equivalent to python * < myprog.py
No need for cat.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From vijay_srr at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 23:12:17 2004
From: vijay_srr at yahoo.com (Vijay)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 20:12:17 -0800
Subject: py2exe in Windowsxp
References: <38f75b16.0403022320.1f56ce00@posting.google.com>	<brneiciy.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.4.1078301717.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38f75b16.0403032012.646eb85@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.4.1078301717.727.python-list at python.org>...
> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> 
> > vijay_srr at yahoo.com (Vijay) writes:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Is py2exe 0.5.0 supported in Windows XP? In the project homepage in
> >> SourceForge.net, only Win95/95/2000 are listed.
> >
> > Sure.  I will correct that.
> 
> Impossible, unfortunately.  SF doesn't know about win XP.
> 
> Thomas

Does this mean that it is supported but you can't update this
information in the homepage in SF?

Thanks in advance,
Vijay.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 31 12:30:34 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:30:34 -0600
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <16491.58.314701.226126@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    John> Is there a better way to test for NaN than

    John>    str(p1)=='nan'

    John> where p1 is a float?

Saw this in the list archives earlier today:

    >>> inf = float("1e9999")
    >>> inf
    Inf
    >>> nan = inf-inf
    >>> nan
    NaN
    >>> p1 = 5.0
    >>> p1 == nan
    False

Skip



From etienne at epoz.org  Wed Mar 17 10:35:28 2004
From: etienne at epoz.org (Etienne Posthumus)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:35:28 +0100 (CET)
Subject: heapq iteration?
In-Reply-To: <20040317070212.2058820938.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0403171632060.7057-100000@mnemosyne.org>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Eric @ Zomething wrote:

> I'm missing something critical about how heapq works.  I assumed I could iterate through the heap, but I get partial iteration:

Do this in stead:

l = [56, 208, 89, 413, 273, 199, 73, 21, 89, 13, 27, 199, 273, 413, 11, 22, 56, 2, 208]
heapq.heapify(l)
while l:
   m = heapq.heappop(l)
   print m, '\t', l

It is generally not a good idea to modify a list while you are iterating
over it. Remember that heappop actually modifies the list.

---

EP





From fnord at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 14:53:53 2004
From: fnord at u.washington.edu (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 11:53:53 -0800
Subject: Overriding builtin types
Message-ID: <f70e3538.0403051153.117477c2@posting.google.com>

Dear gurus-at-large,

Does anyone know if there's a mechanism to make the interpreter use
user-defined classes for interpreting literals, instead of the builtin
 types?

For instance, wouldn't it be cool if the following code raised an
exception?

--------------------
class IllegalValue(Exception): pass

class NaturalNumber(int):
  base_init = int.__init__
  one = 1
  def __init__(self, value):
    NaturalNumber.base_init(self, value)
    if self < NaturalNumber.one:
      raise IllegalValue

__builtins__.int = NaturalNumber

print -1
--------------------

I realize that there are other ways to do this, e.g. print
NaturalNumber(-1), but the above just seems like it would be much more
elegant.

Right now the only way I can see of doing it is to tack on a
pre-interpreter that will substitute LITERAL ->
ArbitraryFunction(LITERAL) implicitly, but that's a lot of effort and
hardly efficient...



-ljp


From 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it  Tue Mar 16 04:14:27 2004
From: 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it (Glauco)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:14:27 +0100
Subject: ZSI proxy problem
In-Reply-To: <bEX2c.8544$Hl1.918@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <3fb251d3.21252950@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
	<V1tsb.14694$hV.552484@news2.tin.it>
	<3fb2c34a.3907929@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
	<d116fbae.0311151843.7ad6ab4e@posting.google.com>
	<bEX2c.8544$Hl1.918@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <rAz5c.7300$t81.3@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Does anyone used this library throw an http proxy ?

This library is based on httplib and now is not implemented this features.
Does anyone added proxy support to httplib ?

I'm only with this problem ?

Glauco

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------
<< Maccaroni! Ma 'che gli ammericani magnano i maccaroni
e bevono er  vino? Gli ammericani  magnano il toast,  la
mostarda, lo yogurt... ammazza  che schifo..
Maccarone, mi guardi? con quella faccia intrepida?
Maccarone, m'hai provocato e io me te magno!>>

                                            Alberto Sordi
--------------------------------------------------------

* glauco at uriland.it
* www.uriland.it
* ICQ: 115323690


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Mon Mar  8 21:56:54 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:56:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <200403081844.00023.gherron@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403081944320.9048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Gary Herron wrote:

> On Monday 08 March 2004 06:13 pm, Jim Benson wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >   Does anyone know of a source code editor for python
> > that has the following characteristics:
> >
> > 1) Freeware (desired)
> > 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> > 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> > 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)
> > 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions
> >    data elements in the file. (required)
> 
> Emacs gives you all of the above 

As i wrote the email...i had a sneaking suspicion that i 
should perhaps look back at emacs. On unix i started with
vi, moved to emacs then to xemacs, then to others.
Its been awhile since i looked at either emacs or xemacs.

> 
> 
> 1 and 2 are no-brainers, although, as a matter of terminology,
> calling it freeware is going cause severe heartburn for some.

Yes...i thought about adding a comment about freeware, opensource...
but i didn't bother to look up and re-read the documents. I guess
i should. My sincere apologies to Richard Stallman and others. 
I promise to go back and re-read the distinctions. 

> 
> Items 3 and 5 come from python-mode.el, which is distributed with
> python.
> 
> Item 4 will take a one line bit of configuration.
> 
> Gary Herron

Thanks...i'm collecting all suggestions and i will try
them out.

Jim





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 17:51:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:51:49 -0500
Subject: Time of Day
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1ac680c0975acc8e989685@news.rockbridge.net>
References: <MPG.1ac680c0975acc8e989685@news.rockbridge.net>
Message-ID: <ctGdnYcQp4SbVsHdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Sam Snead wrote:

> Is there a formula/function I can use to convert the Unix time stamp to 
> a time of day?

What do you mean by "Unix time stamp"?  The number of seconds since the 
beginning of the epoch?  Or something else?  time.localtime() would be 
the most obvious answer, if I'm even nearly answering the right question.


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar 23 11:36:39 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 18:36:39 +0200
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7smfzsep4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Michele> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Vector,Scalar):
    Michele> ...

    Michele> etc.

    Michele> Way cool, actually :)

    Skip> Okay, but can you explain the mechanism or point me to the
    Skip> original post?  I can't find it on Google (probably too
    Skip> recent).  Multimethod(a,b)() won't

Too recent, or it's because my name is Vainio, not Vanio :-).

    Skip> know that each call is for __mul__ will it (maybe it will
    Skip> peek at the func_name attribute)?  From what you posted, all
    Skip> I saw was multiple definitions of __mul__.  Only the last
    Skip> one will be present as a method in the class's definition.

My post didn't offer anything beyond what Michele suggested. I didn't
present any clear mechanism to do the trick, but I figured it ought to
be possible via func_name attribute, as you suggest. Every declaration
would inject a mapping to some global data structure, and the actual
function call would look it up somehow.

Perhaps the actual callable should be bound to the name by doing

f = make_multimethod("f")

after doing all the declarations. Sadly this limits the usability by
preventing declaration of new variations after the final binding.

Obviously the wrapper function could always return the multimethod
dispatcher for that function name to force the resulting binding to be
the dispatcher at all times.

OTOH, I might be misunderstanding something.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From http  Fri Mar  5 22:07:22 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 19:07:22 -0800
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
	<2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>
	<mailman.37.1078527293.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2bdnu$s49$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <7x3c8mr7v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Thomas Bellman <bellman at lysator.liu.se> writes:
> A file system that moves around files when you overwrite them,
> will only move the data blocks, not the inode.  The inode will
> stay the same, and in the same position on the storage device.

If the old blocks get moved to new by copying them and then updating
the block pointers in place, it may be impossible to find the old
blocks by normal means to overwrite them.  But data recovery could
still find them, so you haven't securely deleted the file by
overwriting just the new blocks.

There's really no way to securely delete info from a hard drive.  The
best you can do is encrypt the data so only ciphertext is stored.
Then if you manage to securely destroy the decryption key (a much
smaller piece of data than the whole file), the file is unrecoverable.
In fact you only need enough securely-eraseable media to hold one key,
and still be able to maintain destroyable keys for any number N of
files, where securely erasing a file takes O(log N) operations.  I
have a Usenet post with further details and a pointer to some Python
code at:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=7xr8hsfsak.fsf_-_%40ruckus.brouhaha.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar  7 17:08:39 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:08:39 -0800
Subject: dynamic names
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E8C@opus.amorhq.net>

Val Bykoski wrote:
> I'm currently in a familiar to many business of filing my tax
> return.  Being a big fan of Python and to make the process 
> less painful, 
> i started by writing my favored schedules A,B,C, and the most favored 
> form 1040 in Python.  Everything was a real fun until i got to the
> very famous motif "add lined Lx to Ly".
> This is my naive (master)piece:
> 
> def sumL(L1,L2):
>    # sum up a range of Ls
>    tot=0.
>    for L in range(L1,L2+1): 
>       #nL=exec("L%s" % L)
>       tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
>    return tot

Val,

If I were writing the same thing, I would probably stop using a separate
name for L1, L2, etcetera; instead I would put them in a list:

def sum_lines(lines, lowerbound, upperbound):
    tot=0.
    for line in lines[lowerbound:upperbound + 1]: 
        tot += line
    return tot

>>> lines = [3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, 7.0]
>>> sum_lines(lines, 2, 4)
18.0

Of course, once you've put them in a list, you can just use the builtin
sum() function:

>>> sum(lines[2:5])
18.0

...which saves the extra function definition and call overhead, and
makes your code more readable and more manageable. Hope that helps!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar  3 21:43:50 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:43:50 -0800
Subject: Numeric array of objects
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c265ad$c9p$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> You create a 1-D Numeric array of n floats with
> 
> x = zeros(n,Float)
> 
> How do you create a Numeric array of n instances of class 'xy', where
> for example xy is defined as follows:
> 
> class xy:
>     def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
>         self.x = x
>         self.y = y
> 
> I want the elements of the array to be initialized to the default
> value of xy, (0.0,0.0). I have read the Martelli's explanation on p309
> of the book "Python in a Nutshell", but I still don't get it.


Numeric.array([xy() for i in xrange(n)], Numeric.PyObject)


  - Josiah


From IDONTHAVEEMAIL at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar  8 17:12:32 2004
From: IDONTHAVEEMAIL at ntlworld.com (Rich)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:12:32 +0000
Subject: Unicode (Japanese) fonts in Images
Message-ID: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>

Im trying to create images from a python script which have unicode 
characters in them.  So far Ive tried:

PIL:  Cant get it to do unicode fonts & It wont give me info like 
fontAccent.

PyGame: Will display unicode fonts, and give me font info but wont 
display them below about 20points in size, and if I render them large and 
scale them they look naff.

Gimp-Py: Cant get it to work

gdmodule: Erm, cant get it to work very well, and ive use it under php 
and know it dosent give font info

ReportLab: Looked great, cant get unicode to work, and it looks from 
forum postings that you cant do asian fonts into png's ... yet!

ImageMagick: Looks great, got everything, font info the lot.  But cant 
get it to do asian fonts ... help!

Ive got msgothic/msmincho installed, and Im using PythonMagick and have 
the following code:

from PythonMagick import *
from Drawable import *

img = Image( '1000x600', 'white' )
img.font = "e:\\winnt\\fonts\\msgothic.ttc"
img.fontPointsize = 72

kanji = u'\ufffe\ua295\uc07b'
img.draw( Text( 0 , 100, kanji.encode( 'UTF-8' ), 'UTF-8' ) )
img.write( 'magick.gif' )

Am I doing anything obviously wrong?

I think Im doing something wrong as at the moment the produced .gif has 
three squares showing.  This is what normally happens when I get the 
whole unicode thing mixed up.  Under php and gd I used to get this when I 
specified the unicode char string wrong.  Am I doing that ... help

Many thanks in advance

Rich


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar  1 09:57:56 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:57:56 -0600
Subject: Group comment
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16451.20340.53654.699810@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    ketulp> Can I comment a group of statements together i.e
    ketulp> If I a 4 statements say:
    ketulp> i=1
    ketulp> i+=1
    ketulp> print i
    ketulp> print i+1

    ketulp> Instead of commenting each satement iindividually by # is there
    ketulp> something which allws me to comment these 4 statements in one go
    ketulp> as in C++ using /*...*/

Many people use triple-quoted strings for this:

    """
    i=1
    i+=1
    print i
    print i+1
    """

It's not a comment, strictly speaking, however it generally achieves the
desired results.  Even less comment-like is "if False:":

    if False:
        i=1
        i+=1
        print i
        print i+1

That has the disadvantage that you need to reindent the lines of interest.

Skip



From o_gloom at mail.com  Wed Mar 10 03:47:50 2004
From: o_gloom at mail.com (gloom)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 00:47:50 -0800
Subject: DispatchWithEvents when have internal COM interfaces
References: <9f115c52.0403090254.3ec6c567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9f115c52.0403100047.7b060047@posting.google.com>

Well, problem solved.

After:
cd = nero.GetDrives(NERO_MEDIA_CD)[0]

I can do:
WithEvents(cd, DriveEvents)

and it works.

The question is, can I do it without WithEvents, but with
DispatchWithEvents() somehow, so I can refer to self?

Good day,
Omer.


From jylevy at pacbell.net  Tue Mar  9 00:09:57 2004
From: jylevy at pacbell.net (Jacob Levy)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 05:09:57 GMT
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] e4Graph 1.0a11
Message-ID: <404D5214.6040703@pacbell.net>

I am pleased to announce the 1.0a11 release of e4Graph, the eleventh Alpha
release. This is definitely the final Alpha release for 1.0, the next
release is 1.0b1.

WHAT IS IT:

e4Graph is a C++ library that allows programs to store graph-like data
persistently and to access and manipulate that data efficiently. With
e4Graph, you can arrange your data in the most natural form that
reflects the relationships between its parts, rather than having to
force it into a table-like format. The e4Graph library also allows you
to concentrate on the relationships you want to represent, and not on
how to store them in a database. You can modify data items, and add and
remove connections and relationships between pieces of data on the fly.
e4Graph allows you to represent an unlimited number of different
connections between pieces of data, and your program can selectively
manipulate the data according to the relationships it cares about, not
having to know about other connections represented in the data set. The
e4Graph package also provides bindings in several other languages,
currently Tcl, Python and Java, and allows input/output of object graphs
via an XML representation.

The e4Graph package is built on top of Metakit 2.4.9.2, and optionally
uses Tcl 8.4.4, Python 2.2.3, Java 1.1 or later, and Expat 1.95.7.

WHERE TO GET:

Downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/e4graph/
Homepage: http://www.e4graph.com/e4graph/
Changelog: http://www.e4graph.com/e4graph/changes.txt
Installation: http://www.e4graph.com/e4graph/e4install.html

WHAT IS NEW:

I decided to skip 1.0a10 since Daniel Steffen released AquaTclBI for
MacOS 10.x which contained a snapshot of the CVS repository and called
that "e4graph 1.0a10". This way we avoid confusion between two
different sourcebases; the 1.0a10 code in AquaTclBI contains several
bugs that are fixed in this release.

This release is mainly a bug-fix release. Several bugs related to
vertex movement were fixed, and the semantics of vertex addressing and
movement have been normalized. Several uses of uninitialized variables
were fixed to eliminate random incorrect behaviors. Made callbacks
behave more consistently. A bug where a storage was incorrectly being
marked as unstable was fixed.

A new timestamp mechanism was added to allow applications to poll for
events instead of installing callbacks. Several new permissions were
added to allow fine control over what a user program can do with a
storage. The semantics of vertex and node detach callbacks were
changed to be asynchronous, and the timestamp at which a node or
vertex detach is recorded is arbitrarily later than the time at which
the action actually occurs. A mechanism was added to allow a user
program to control whether vertices are cached, to speed up lookup.



From http  Mon Mar 29 02:53:08 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 23:53:08 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xwu5484yj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:
> I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
> for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
> Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
> other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
> 25?

Sort, then remove dups.


From tmohr at s.netic.de  Mon Mar 29 14:25:11 2004
From: tmohr at s.netic.de (Torsten Mohr)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:25:11 +0200
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
Message-ID: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de>

Hi,

i'd like to use 64 Bit Integer values in Python,
can anybody give me a hint on what are the limits
in Python?

Can i use signed and unsigned 64 Bit Integers?


Thanks for hints,
Torsten.



From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Thu Mar 11 03:56:12 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:56:12 +0100
Subject: psycopg problem
References: <40501FA1.6030801@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <405029AC.1070108@geochemsource.com>

Oh my god! I tried the same with other modules too.

Here are the resulsts:

1. psycopg:      when a command fails, it will terminate the trasaction 
but it tells that it will ignore other commands until the end of the 
transaction block
2. PyGreSQL:  when a command fails, it will terminate the trasaction but 
it tells that it will ignore other commands until the end of the 
transaction block
3. pyPgSQL:    when a command fails, it will terminate the trasaction 
without furhter notice (!!!)

I see big problems here. I tried these too: Oracle, FireBird, MS SQL, 
SAP DB. I was able to run an erroneous SQL and then continue my transaction
(e.g. execute other commands in the same transaction). In my situation, 
I just can't tell if a command will fail or not. If would be too hard 
and too slow
to determine if a command will fail or not. Hey, this is why exceptions 
was born! From the other side, I must be able to commit or rollback all 
my changes
at the end of the block, depending on several things. Can anybody help 
me please?


Gandalf wrote:

>
>  Hi All!
>
> Every time I get an error psycopg refuses to execute further commands 
> in the same transaction:
>
> psycopg.ProgrammingError:ERROR:  current transaction is aborted, 
> commands ignored until end of transaction block
>
> Why is that? I would like to decide if I want to continue my 
> transaction or not. Isn't it possible?
>
> Best,
>
>   G
>
>





From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 18:00:49 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:00:49 +0100
Subject: subclassing list and adding other variables ?
References: <4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c2qr32$j1n$01$1@news.t-online.com>

GrelEns wrote:

> i wonder if this possible to subclass a list or a tuple and add more
> attributes ? also does someone have a link to how well define is own
> iterable object ?

[You tried hard]

With lists it is the standard procedure of overriding __init__() and calling
the baseclass method:

>>> class List(list):
...     def __init__(self, iterable, a):
...             list.__init__(self, iterable)
...             self.a = a
...
>>> a = List((1,2,3), "abc")
>>> a
[1, 2, 3]
>>> a.a
'abc'

Tuples are immutable and thus changes in __init__() will not affect the
tuple items. They are set in the __new__() method instead.

>>> class Tuple(tuple):
...     def __new__(cls, *args):
...             return tuple.__new__(cls, args[0])
...     def __init__(self, seq, a):
...             self.a = a
...
>>> b = Tuple((1,2,3), "abc")
>>> b
(1, 2, 3)
>>> b.a
'abc'

For a minimal iterable class, let __iter__() return self and next()
calculate the next value or raise a StopIteration exception when there are
no more values:

>>> class Iterable:
...     def __init__(self, start, maxval):
...             self.value = start
...             self.maxval = maxval
...     def __iter__(self): return self
...     def next(self):
...             if self.value > self.maxval:
...                     raise StopIteration
...             result = self.value
...             self.value *= -2
...             return result
...
>>> for n in Iterable(1, 500):
...     print n,
...
1 -2 4 -8 16 -32 64 -128 256 -512

(I've got a hunch that Iterator would have been a more appropriate name, but
you may judge on your own, see
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node17.html)

Peter


From ark at acm.org  Tue Mar 16 20:54:46 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:54:46 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c at posting.google.com...

> Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is unspecified
> and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.

Hardly.  It has two fundamental properties, which can sometimes be useful:

    1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" yields True.

    2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True.  Equivalently, if
"x==y" yields False, "x is y" also yields False.

> Maybe one could redefine "is" on immutables as follows: for strings
> and numbers it acts as "==", for tuples it acts as componentwise "is".
> That would be a more useful operator IMHO.

Can you give a realistic example of code that would benefit from such a
change?




From bob at redivi.com  Tue Mar  2 22:53:14 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:53:14 -0500
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122> <c234h9$nep$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c23as9$k9n$0@216.39.172.122> <c23d7g$3k1$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc4af23.aq9.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <2004030222531443658%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-02 21:30:36 -0500, Ben Finney 
<bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> said:

> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:40:27 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> May as well use an "if False:" construct and gain the benefit of
>> visual indentation, regardless of an editor's syntax highlighting
>> capability.
> 
> As well as losing any possible ambiguity about whether the code will be
> executed.  I like it.

Some editors will even key in on this, like #if 0 in C.




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sun Mar 28 20:10:15 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:10:15 -0800
Subject: windows ce
In-Reply-To: <4066969e$0$5634$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <4066969e$0$5634$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c47t7n$51a$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Does anybody know if there is an implementation of python on windows ce?

Google is your friend:
http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+ce+python&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

  - Josiah


From mark at mceahern.com  Wed Mar 24 10:07:25 2004
From: mark at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:07:25 -0500
Subject: best module for parsing a small xml file
In-Reply-To: <4061a11e$0$277$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <4061a11e$0$277$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <c3s87e$oot$1@sea.gmane.org>

Geiregat Jonas wrote:
> What's the best module for pasring a small xml file ?

from xml.dom import minidom
doc = minidom.parse(filename)

// m




From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 01:46:42 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:46:42 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>

I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
with a function like a closure of sorts?

In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs ands
or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?

You say fragile.  What breaks?


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c4avp5$2g4b0b$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> >>     f = someobj.somemeth
> >>     someotherobj.g = f
> >>     someotherobj.g()
> >>
> >>   What does the "self" object inside the call to somemeth
> >>   refer to then -- someobj, or someotherobj?
> >
> > It refers to someotherobj.
>
> You have a problem, then. This means passing functions around
> is fragile. If you store one in an attribute of an object, it
> mutates into something different when you get it back out
> again.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:21:30 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:21:30 -0800
Subject: wxPython book (was Re: Python Documentation Blows!)
In-Reply-To: <c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <406B527A.5010707@mlug.missouri.edu>


>There's one in the pipeline.  Don't know how much more than that I
>should say; I've changed the Subject: line in case the authors are
>monitoring this group.
>  
>
That's great to hear. If they post a link to somewhere I can sign up to 
be notified when it's available I'll definately buy a copy.



From H.Duerer at gmx.net  Mon Mar 22 09:46:30 2004
From: H.Duerer at gmx.net (Holger Duerer)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:46:30 +0000
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <mailman.172.1079731437.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oeqpaqih.fsf@Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>

>>>>> "Raymond" == Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> writes:
    >> Since the size of plaintext is only 2^53, can't I just
    >> calculate all 2^53 md5 values in advance, and invert the output
    >> of MD5Random to get MT outputs, then attack MT just like any
    >> LFSR?

    Raymond> Change the plaintext line to read:
    Raymond>         plaintxt = str(Random.getrandbits(self, 128))

    Raymond> Now, 128 bits of input space gets digested to 128 bits
    Raymond> and then only 53 of those bits are used in to compute the
    Raymond> float.  That should preclude the formation of an
    Raymond> inversion table.

I don't know what getrandbits does exactly.  But if it uses the normal
PRNG code, doesn't that mean that your plaintext still has only 32
bits of entropy?  I.e. if you want to do an inversion lookup table,
you would only have to calculate the 2^32 possible outcomes of this
call and not all 2^128 theoretically possible ones?


     Holger



From roy at panix.com  Fri Mar 12 10:06:36 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:06:36 -0500
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
In-Reply-To: <16465.52956.35691.13784@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-03189A.08483712032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<16465.52956.35691.13784@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <DB8E3F3C-7436-11D8-8AD1-000A95CDE43E@panix.com>


On Mar 12, 2004, at 9:53 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>>> What version of python-mode.el are you using?  I use the latest
>>> version from CVS (4.51).
>
>     Roy> I just downloaded python-mode.el a couple of days ago from
>     Roy> www.python.org and got version 4.6, for use with GNU Emacs 
> 21.2.1
>     Roy> on my Mac OSX box.
>
> Hmmm...  I'll have to track that down and update it.  I don't see
> python-mode.el in the source for the python.org website.  Do you have 
> a URL?

It's at http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/.  This also happens to 
be google hit #1 for "python emacs mode" :-)

>
> Try the version here instead:
>
>     http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python-mode/python-mode/

I'll give that a shot, thanks.

BTW, although Apple ships OSX with both emacs and python pre-installed, 
they don't include the python-mode.el.  Any idea what the best way is 
to suggest to Apple that they include it?

They also ship python without gnu readline enabled :-(




From remy.blank_asps at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 12:26:14 2004
From: remy.blank_asps at pobox.com (Remy Blank)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:26:14 +0100
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
In-Reply-To: <104rjfeotprjqdc@news.supernews.com>
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch> <104rjfeotprjqdc@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <404dfe36$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>

John Roth wrote:
> "Remy Blank" <remy.blank_asps at pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:404844e3$1 at epflnews.epfl.ch...
>>Now my questions:
>>  - Am I doing something fundamentally forbidden (replacing stuff in
>>existing modules like __builtins__ or os)?
> 
> Yes. It's never a good idea to replace stuff on the system
> level, and some day it might become impossible.

That's too bad. When test-driving code in C++, you have to use an 
abstraction layer between your code and the file system accessors, to be 
able to replace it by a mock object for testing. I always thought it was 
an advantage of Python to be able to use the "native" calls and still 
replace them by stubs for testing purposes.

> Well, I don't know about "better" but what I've discovered
> is that file system scans are ideal usages of the Visitor pattern.
> I've got a single module that contains the guts of the file
> system scanner and a number of useful utility methods (such
> as loading a file into memory, writing it out and setting the
> stats).

The visitor pattern really is an elegant solution for scanning a file 
system. I think I'll give it a try.

If I understand you correctly, your scanner module is the abstraction 
layer I mentioned above, and you can replace it by stubs for test cases. 
Maybe that's the most reasonable way to go. But it would still be useful 
to have a generic scanner mock object that simulates a file system.

-- Remy

Remove underscore and anti-spam suffix in reply address for a timely 
response.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar  5 08:35:51 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 08:35:51 -0500
Subject: OT: Lisp isn't chocolate (was Re: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my
	favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com> <test@test.tk>
Message-ID: <c29vnn$e7m$1@panix2.panix.com>

[c.l.py added back in]

In article <test at test.tk>, Ray Dillinger  <bear at sonic.net> wrote:
>nobody wrote:
>> 
>> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who asked me to
>> detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit of people like him,
>> who may find themselves intrigued by this language.
>
>The solution to your problem is obvious.  Just treat Lisp like
>Chocolate; if you don't like it, you can't have any.

OTOH, using a braindead netnews client that reposts the same content
tends to destroy one's credibility.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar 18 19:41:14 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 16:41:14 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<38ec68a6.0403171750.7a300cb2@posting.google.com>
	<40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403181641.5c416b30@posting.google.com>

axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote in message news:<40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0 at posting.google.com>...
> Probably because basic built-in strings form a type
> that's not a class and you can't inherit from it.

You sure can!  (Providing, of course your python is >= 2.2)  Try this:

class MyString (str) : 
    pass
foo = MyString('the things you can do in python!')
foo.__class__ is MyString
isinstance(foo, str)
MyString.mro()

> > For instance I might have a class 'Name', in a names database, which
> > is a specialised string.  In this case '==' function looks to the
> > contents of the strings being compared, while 'is' tells me whether
> > these two strings are the same object.  Thus "if name0 == name1 and
> > not name0 is name1" will tell me that I am dealing with a duplicate
> > record.  
> 
> If you make Name a class that contains a string as a data attribute ...

Now you know the above all this is irrelevant, yes?  I mean
composition may be a valid strategy, but it doesn't really address the
question, of how your proposed changes would affect inheritence.

The problem with my example (well it's probably a problem with the
Python definition :P), is that while you could be pretty sure that the
condition "if name0 == name1 and not name0 is name1" indicates a
duplicate, its facility to find /all/ duplicates is implementation
dependent (ie it works because only built-in types like 'int' and
'str' are 'cached' to the same objects, and programmer defined classes
such as 'Name' or 'MyString' are not).  Which leads to my next point
...



> 
> > a program in which a large (or at least
> > important) part of the logic was contained in the __eq__ method to the
> > class you created 
> 

It might be instructive to play with the difference between identity
and equivalence in the abstract.  What I mean is this, imagine that
'is' really means 'is' rather the 'is located at.'  Given the current
implementation (and probably any future implementation), one can do
this, bearing in mind the caveat that special considerations apply
with regard to some built-in types.

Doing so might lead to an appreciation the power of this distinction
in an abstract OO context, which in turn might lead towards advocating
a very different kind of change to the meaning of 'is.'  Rather than
inconsistently conflating the concept of identity with equivalence
(which imo your proposal does), one might argue for a guarantee that
an implementation /never/ cache different instances of a programmer
created class to the same memory location.

> > I mean you wouldn't really be in a
> > situation to advocate a redefinition of the identity/equivalence
> > relationship unless you had, would you?
> 
> Why not?

Because you would be advocating a change to an aspect of the language
you don't use, but which other programmers do.


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Mar  9 01:02:46 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:02:46 +0200
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404D5E06.7000303@zoran.com>

Jim Benson wrote:

> 1) Freeware (desired)
> 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)  
> 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions 
>    data elements in the file. (required)
VIm (http://vim.sf.net) gives you 1-4. If you use ctags you can have 5 
as well.
Learning curve is steep (just like Emacs) but when you're at the top 
it's amazing (mouse? we don't need no stinking mouse :-)

HTH.
Miki



From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Mar 11 19:01:54 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:01:54 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<mailman.273.1079016210.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<mcl6i1-i24.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<qnk3c8fjcsl.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <5ga7i1-ug6.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) writes:

>The lambda depends on a global variable too (or at least, a variable
>up one scope).

That's quite a significant difference.  The *result* of the lambda
does not depend on a global variable.

>def make_translation_function(GCPs, type, invert=False):
>    if type == 'LSF' and len(GCPs) < 12:
>        # Do lots of time-consuming magic to calculate A, B, ...
>        def LSF_function(x, y):
>            xy = x*y
>            lon = x*A + y*B + xy*C + ...
>            lat = x*G + y*H + xy*I + ...
>            return (lon, lat)
>        return LSF_function

Ah...*that's* what I needed.  I hadn't considered that a defined
function could be passed out of the scope like that.

Thank you.

--kyler


From cyhawk at sch.bme.hu  Fri Mar 19 11:48:32 2004
From: cyhawk at sch.bme.hu (Darabos Daniel)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:48:32 +0100
Subject: lambda trouble
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>

Hi!

I was doing something like this:

>>> def p( x ):
...     print x
...
>>> l = []
>>> for i in range( 5 ):
...     l.append( lambda: p( i ) )
...
>>> for k in l:
...     k()
...
4
4
4
4
4

And it surprised me a little. I was expecting to see 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.
After some brainwork I now kind of understand what happens and I even
found a solution like this:

>>> def mylambda( fn, *args ):
...     return lambda: apply( fn, args )
...
>>> l = []
>>> for i in range( 5 ):
...     l.append( mylambda( p, i ) )
...
>>> for k in l:
...     k()
...
0
1
2
3
4

But I still feel a bit unsatisfied. Do you have some advice for me?

Cheers,

Daniel




From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 18:19:30 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 15:19:30 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com><4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.95.1079541201.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403171519.418a73a4@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote 

> I vaguely remember a discussion on PyDev list, some years ago, of
> 'equality' of infinite recursive structures.  I believe there was a change
> in the direction of simplicity and robustness to the current algorithm from
> a more ambitious algorithm that might have detected s != w -- but which
> sometimes had problems. 

Nowadays, an equality test which detects difference of s and w could
be defined by comparing the strings pickle.dumps(s) and
pickle.dumps(w).

Axel


From srovner at us.ibm.com  Thu Mar  4 13:57:58 2004
From: srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 10:57:58 -0800
Subject: tkFileDialog.askopenfilename
Message-ID: <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773@posting.google.com>

tkFileDialog.askopenfilename only allows you to open an existing file.
 I want to allow my users to enter a new filename in the dialog box. 
Can anyone help?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Mar 18 09:47:43 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:47:43 -0500
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<i3zVAls/K72A089yn@the-wire.com> <tyfekrr86zo.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <PabWAls/KHie089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <tyfekrr86zo.fsf at lxplus059.cern.ch>,
Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) writes:
>
>>    Far too few.  After the `nested x` statement comes
>> `nested nested x` and `nested nested nested x`,
>
>Nope. You would never write more than one "nested". It would be an
>instruction to Python _not_ to treat the name as local, [ ... ]

   Sorry.  Bad reading.  I came to my senses sometime
yesterday.  I don't like the idea of rebinding names
non-locally, but that's taste.  Nothing to do with the logic
of your idea.

        Regards.        Mel.


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 04:53:17 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 01:53:17 -0800
Subject: Escape problem
References: <f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.33.1078241864.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403030153.ffef2e5@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.33.1078241864.12614.python-list at python.org>...
> The exact answer depends on what library you're using in your
> application.
> 
> THe low-level answer is that you must properly escape characters that
> would otherwise be treated specially by html.
> 
> For example, the output needs to look like this
>     <FORM ...>
>     <INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="something" VALUE="foo&quot;bar&quot">
>     ...
>     </FORM>
> 
> If you do not escape or otherwise treat specially the " characters, the
> resulting non-html output will contain something like
>     <INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="something" VALUE="foo"bar"">
> 
> ... this kind of bug can also lead to cross-site scripting (XSS) problems,
> for instance if an attacker can control the string in question and sets
> it to something like '"><SCRIPT>alert(document.cookie)</SCRIPT>'...
> 
> Jeff

Thanks that solyed my problem


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Mar 15 11:12:07 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:12:07 -0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<1056g3f7jnt2jcc@news.supernews.com>
	<c31g3n$iu0$2@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <slrnc5bm20.2nk.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <c31g3n$iu0$2 at news2.netvision.net.il>, Miki Tebeka wrote:
> Hello John,
> 
>>>Who says Python is not strongly typed? Python *is*
>>>strongly typed. The problem I am facing is that Python
>>>is also dynamically typed, and I want static typing.
>> 
>> 
>> So do a lot of other people. If you want static
>> typing, go use a language that has it, like Java,
>> C++ or C#.
> You can give ML (http://www.ocaml.org/) a try. All the type checking you 
> can think of...

Without the strong finger-typing! =)

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From whisper at oz.net  Mon Mar  8 22:05:43 2004
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:05:43 -0800
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403081852180.9048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>
Message-ID: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFIEDEEDAA.whisper@oz.net>

> 1) Freeware (desired) -check!
> 2) Runs on Linux (required) -check!
> 3) Syntax high lighting (required) -check! - over 20 languages
> 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired) -check! (tabs)
> 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions 
>    data elements in the file. (required) -check! (folding)
> 

Scite - http://www.scintilla.org



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Mar 15 14:29:57 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:29:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> Ludovic Aubry <no_ludal_spam at logilab.com> writes:
...
>> > Try as you will, Python would not allow you to do any of these things,
>> > because it is _strongly typed_ with respect to these operations on these
>> > types.
>> Python will allow you to multiply string with integers for example ;)

> Yes, and in that respect it is weakly typed.

Here I disagree.  Python has a rule for multiplying a string and an
integer--this isn't an exmaple of weak typing.  No re-interpretation
of data representation is being done.


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 16:24:51 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 13:24:51 -0800
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403181324.31ea8a36@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfd67e4fll.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
[snip]
> Imagine (for the sake of brevity of argument --- I wouldn't dream of
> suggesting such a "line-noise" syntax for Python) that you could use
> "x := 3" to mean "create a new local binding for x", while "x = 3"
> would mean "find the innermost x and rebind it", with function
> parameters, loop variables, list comprehension variables all behaving
> as if they were using ":=". Now you'll find that you gain a lot of
> flexibility to do what is appropriate with scopes of variables used in
> loops etc., and you have an opportunity to fix the immutability of
> closures ...
> 
> (Of course there are "issues" ... what happens, for
> example when you say
> 
>     def foo(a):
>         a := 3
>         a := 4
> 
> ... does that make three nested scopes for a?, is it an error?)

One way to avoid this problem is to have an explicit scope-creating
construct instead.

def foo(a):
   scope outer:
      a = 3
      scope inner:
         a = 4
         print a            # prints 4
         print outer.a      # prints 3
         print foo.a        # prints the function parameter
      print a               # inner.a is out of scope, so prints 3
      foo.b = 5             # Creates a new function-scope variable.
   print b                  # prints 5


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 11 08:36:15 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:36:15 +0100
Subject: py2exe win32all: Can write, but not read FileVersion ...
References: <c2plth$8ap$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Message-ID: <ad2nijzk.fsf@python.net>

"Werner Merkl" <werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
>
> Python is really great, for small to big programs. For my colleagues and
> some circumstances I sometimes need to "compile" a script using py2exe.
>
> Cause I use Windows, I like to use the (Windows) ability, to add some
> version infos, comments, etc to the exe file.
>
> If I use explorer to check, these properties are visible and correct.
> But if I use _win32api.GetFileVersion_ , I get nothing for the language
> dependent resource...
>
> At the end you may see my example source code, which is almost the
> original code from win32all and py2exe. Just compile and start.

This is a known (to me, at least) bug: the version info resources are
probably not correct - they also don't show up on win98.  But I never
cared enough to fix that.  It would be great if someone could do this,
the code is all in Python, in py2exe\resources\VersionInfo.py.

> BTW: I found the same behavior for (most/all?) .pyd from win32all
> and for PythonWin.exe.

That may, or may not, be related.  I have no idea.

Thomas




From goodger at python.org  Tue Mar  9 11:31:05 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:31:05 -0500
Subject: Remembered arguments to a function
In-Reply-To: <20040309160842.66870.qmail@web60108.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040309160842.66870.qmail@web60108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <404DF149.4030605@python.org>

wruuqr ewfjbc wrote:
> Should I have expected the behavior of this function? 
> Is this a bug?  Is it wise to exploit this behavior?

That's a FAQ.  See <http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html>,
question 4.21 "Why are default values shared between objects?".

-- David Goodger




From frr149 at telefonica.net  Fri Mar  5 04:01:55 2004
From: frr149 at telefonica.net (Boogie El Aceitoso)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:01:55 +0100
Subject: Python's equivalent of C++ std::multimap
Message-ID: <h37f40druvjf3qc2k9fmc4c9414q6mknc5@4ax.com>

Hi,

What's Python's equivalent of C++'s std::multimap? Is there any 'multidict'?
O:-)

Thanks


From P at draigBrady.com  Tue Mar 30 04:22:35 2004
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:22:35 +0100
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
In-Reply-To: <mailman.77.1080592548.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.77.1080592548.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40693C5B.2060101@draigBrady.com>

Adelein and Jeremy wrote:
> I have recently completed a mini-project with the goal of rewriting
> in Python Eric Raymond's fortune.pl script
> (http://www.catb.org/~esr/fortunes/fortune.pl-unconfuse-apache),

I did a very quick fortune file parser as part of:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/rotagator

P?draig.


From ssk at chol.net  Thu Mar 25 17:05:15 2004
From: ssk at chol.net (Sam Kong)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 14:05:15 -0800
Subject: How do I get the reference of window in DOM?
Message-ID: <f0667546.0403251405.29c16342@posting.google.com>

Hello!

Now I know how to get dom of ie using the following code.

from win32com.client import DispatchEx
ie = DispatchEx('internetexplorer.application')
ie.visible = 1
ie.navigate(url)
dom = ie.Document

My question is that how do I get the window reference from dom?

I want to close the ie from my Python code.
I don't know how to access the window object.

ie.Window is not the answer.

Thanks in advance.

Sam


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 20:31:38 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:31:38 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<106eo695a9t8820@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <106ev65lpu59614@news.supernews.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:106eo695a9t8820 at news.supernews.com...
> "Harald Massa" <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134...
> > Mark,
> >
> > I see most discussion about Prothon is concerning prototypes.
> >
> > Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate
> > prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?
> >
> > I never had a problem to "add an attribute" to an existing object; I
> really
> > can't see why it should be more than some small hacks to allow "adding a
> > function to an existing object".
>
> As you note, you can do that with a simple assignment,
> and it will work. The two problems are:
>
> 1. The clone operation
>
> 2. Syntax sugar to make it all nice and palatable.
>
> I suspect that a usable clone() operation is less
> than 10 lines. The syntax sugar, on the other hand,
> will IMNSHO, take forever to get agreement.
>
> John Roth

Sigh. I'm replying to my own post. After I posted this, I
remembered that something needs to be done to set up an
inheritance chain among instances. That requires a custom
__getattribute__() magic method, which will not be all that
easy to write.

John Roth
> >
> >
> > Harald
>
>




From jamesl at appliedminds.com  Wed Mar 24 14:25:37 2004
From: jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 11:25:37 -0800
Subject: Problems with py2exe 0.50 and win98se and win2k
Message-ID: <a091da2f.0403241125.62360fc6@posting.google.com>

So, users of my program have been reporting the following:
On Win98SE the program refuses to start, at all.
On Windows2000, they get a dialog box saying:
"The procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not be located ... in kernel32.dll"
Screenshot: http://not-9-plz.com/beibhinn/kort.jpg

With previous py2exe versions, there have been no problems.

Any help?
Thanks.


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 14 19:39:05 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:39:05 +1300
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
	<92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c32tvb$23p9mi$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

MetalOne wrote:
> I finally agree that long unabbreviated names are better.  Years later,
> I realize that expressions can be hard to read with long variable
> names.  It occurs to me that mathematics always use one character
> variables like x,y,z or the greek symbols.

I think the important thing is not to use *arbitrary*
abbreviations. There is usually more than one plausible
way to abbreviate a long word to a medium-size word.
Remembering that it's abbreviated and exactly how it's
abbreviated is a cognitive burden that one can do without.
Deciding on no abbreviations cuts out a whole lot of
degrees of freedom that provide little benefit.

Extremely short names in the mathematics style are something
else, I think -- not so much abbreviations as a different
approach to naming altogether. It often makes sense,
especially if the names tie in with symbols used in
mathematics literature on the subject.

Also, local names are different from global ones. It
probably doesn't matter much what sort of names you
use locally, but global ones need to be as memorable
as possible. Descriptive, fully-spelled-out names
seem to be best for that.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Mar 16 18:18:33 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:18:33 +0100
Subject: SHA-based subclass for Random module
References: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <40578bfa$0$9515$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.py
>
>This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
>the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
>are appreciated.

Nice idea, and thanks for SHAring, but I can't comment about its
predictability. What I know about MD5 or SHA is that these algorithms
try to dislocate bits as fast as possible per iteration. 

Consider the code below not as a tested random function but as an
exercise in floating point bit twiddling. (although it seems to work
reasonably well in a scatterplot) 

Anton

"""
I used this URL:

URL: http://www.psc.edu/general/software/packages/ieee/ieee.html 

more specific, this line:

S EEEEEEEEEEE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

and this :

If 0<E<2047 then V=(-1)**S * 2 ** (E-1023) * (1.F) where "1.F" is
intended to represent the binary number created by prefixing F with 
an implicit leading 1 and a binary point.

NOTE: if E==1023 then 2 ** (E-1023) == 2**0 == 1 so in the code
below I am setting S EEEEEEEEEEE to 0x3ff
"""

import md5, struct, time

s0,s1,offset = str(time.time()),'',14
def f(x):  return md5.new(x).digest()

def arand():
    global s0,s1,offset
    if offset >= 14: s0,s1,offset = f(s0),f(s0+s1),0
    b = chr(ord(s1[offset]) | 0xf0)
    c = s1[offset+1:offset+7]
    offset += 7
    return struct.unpack('>d','?'+b+c)[0]-1

def test(n=10000):
    return sum([arand() for i in xrange(n)])/n
    
if __name__=='__main__':
    print test()



From jcb at iteris.com  Fri Mar 12 17:12:38 2004
From: jcb at iteris.com (MetalOne)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 14:12:38 -0800
Subject: Want to build an interactive TopLevel for Javascript
Message-ID: <92c59a2c.0403121412.7babab0e@posting.google.com>

I would like to build an interactive interpreted mode(TopLevel)
similar to what Python provides when run without a script.  I want the
TopLevel interpreter for JavaScript.  I don't care about JavaScript
needing to access a web browser DOM.  I just want to try out basic
language statements.

I know there is jscript.dll in my winnt\system32 directory.  I am
guessing that it supports COM.  I figure this would be just a few
lines of Python code, but I don't know how to get started.


From shoot at the.moon  Thu Mar 11 15:33:22 2004
From: shoot at the.moon (Steve Horsley)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:33:22 +0000
Subject: Solaris knows I'm using pexpect!
Message-ID: <c2qi7t$2g6$1@news.freedom2surf.net>

I am trying to automate changing of a password for a particular 
user account (for use by scripts, not people). I am trying to 
use the command "passwd testuser" as root. 
Of course I can do this by hand. I have succesfully 
used pexpect to do this in a script on Linux, a bit like this:

import pexpect
p = pexpect.spawn("/bin/sh")
p.sendline("passwd testuser\r")
pw = randomPassword()
p.sendline(pw + "\r")
p.sendline(pw + "\r")

I skipped the checking code in the above summary.
This works fine on Linux, but on Solaris, the response 
to "passwd testuser" is "Access denied" rather than 
"Enter new password:".

Solaris somehow knows I'm using expect rather than directly 
driving the passwd command, and won't play ball.

Does anyone know how I can automate this password change?

Thanks,
Steve.


From ataru at nospam.cyberspace.org  Wed Mar  3 09:30:21 2004
From: ataru at nospam.cyberspace.org (Christopher Benson-Manica)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:30:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c24q5t$t48$3@chessie.cirr.com>

In comp.lang.c nobody <nobody_u_should_no at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ^^^^^^^^^^^

> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
> asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
> of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
> this language.

Wow, isn't that nice of you to post for Mr. Yang.  I'm sure I, like
everyone on comp.lang.c, is utterly fascinated by Lisp and Mr. Yang's
critique of it.  Likewise, I'm sure, for the happy inhabitants of
comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.java.programmer, and comp.lang.python.

Followups set, anonymous crossposting troll.

> The opinions expressed herein are my personal ones, coming
> from several years of experience with Lisp. I did plenty of
> AI programming back in the day,  which is what would now be
> called "search" instead.

> Due to time constraints, I will refrain from posting any
> follow-ups here. Participants of other newsgroups are well
> aware of comp.lang.lispers' tendency to engage in personal
> attacks, so a productive discussion with them is unlikely
> anyway.

> Permission is granted to copy and distribute this document
> without restrictions.


> =========================================================
>    Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language.
> =========================================================
> (In the following, "Lisp" refers to ANSI Common Lisp)

> This article is a collection of facts anyone interested in
> Lisp should know about.

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 1: The fastest Lisp implementations are slow

> (See any third-party benchmark: The Great Computer Language
> Shootout comes to mind, but the Coyote Culch test is in my
> optinion even better: it is a professional-quality
> interlanguage benchmark)

> As a rule of thumb, the most hand-optimized Lisp programs
> will be longer than their C/C++ equivalents, and will run
> 2-20 times slower using the best compilers.

> This alone is half the truth. To get such performance out
> of Lisp, one has to add type declarations and shed all
> safety checks, which is analogous to casting /everything/
> to (void*) in C. This is needed to turn off type tag checks
> at run time.

> Sadly, Lisp code that was posted to USENET by Pascal
> Bourguignon for the Coyote Gulch test did not measure up
> even to these low expectations and was 31.6 times slower
> than C++, using CMUCL 18d as a Lisp compiler and Intel C++
> 7.1 (with -O3 -xW optimization switches) as a C++ compiler
> on Pentium IV.

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 2: No one but a small clique of fanatics likes it

> No matter how odd or perverted the cause, there will be
> followers. In fact, the odder the cause, the fewer, but
> more fervent its followers are. Look at any religious cult,
> like Scientology, or take a peek in comp.lang.lisp and
> listen to Lisp zealots talk about 'making sacrifices for
> the cause' (in all seriousness!). Look up "a public
> apology" thread started by Pascal Costanza as an excellent
> example.

> ZEALOTS STOP AT NOTHING TO ADVANCE THEIR CAUSE, AND
> PERSONALLY ATTACKING ANYONE WITH A DISSENTING OPTINION IS
> THE FIRST THING IN THEIR ARSENAL.

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 3: The vast majority of people who study Lisp in
> school, never want to use it again.

> You should already know this if you studied or taught CS
> where Lisp courses were offered. Even those students who
> are fond of Scheme are usually disgusted by Lisp.

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 4: Lisp is the most complicated language in the world

> It has the biggest standard specification document, which
> is also the most obfuscated one - something a lawyer
> pretending to be a programmer could have written. C, C++
> and Fortran 95 specs are much better written, by people who
> can communicate directly and eloquently.

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 5: Despite its size, Lisp does not define threads or
> GUI.

> Large libraries are very useful when programming, however
> Lisp's many functions and macros hardly qualify.

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 6: There is no open-source cross-platform native-code
> compiler

> It was suggested that GCL (GNU Common Lisp) is the only
> exception. However, it needs to be noted, that despite its
> name, GCL is a dialect of its own, is quite slow even by
> Lisp standards, and most alarmingly, unlike with other
> compilers, its license requires your, programmer, code to
> be GPL if you distribute it with GCL. (Because you will
> need to use GCL both as a compiler and a run time library)

> ---------------------------------------------------------

> FACT 7: There is no standard C interface.

> C has become a lingua franca for interlanguage APIs. It may
> be unfair, but not having a standard C interface is a
> serious problem for any language.


> EPILOGUE:

> I do not hate Lisp, and I think it was a fine tool decades
> ago, and I am not going to say "Lisp sucks". However, now
> that we have superior languages for coding close to the
> iron, high-performance computing, number crunching,
> algorithms, scripting and gluing components together, Lisp
> should be finally retired.

-- 
Christopher Benson-Manica  | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org    | don't, I need to know.  Flames welcome.

(blank lines added below to keep my newsreader happy)
































































































From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 29 16:50:35 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:50:35 -0800
Subject: [Fwd: Re: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app]
References: <40660D22.6010200@mlug.missouri.edu><16487.23252.815170.476932@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.23.1080517734.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <daimj1-ngt.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Michael wrote:
> I don't know if Python has a way to access an SSL
> wrapped XML-RPC server? Don't imagine it'd be to hard to implement
> though. I just haven't had a reason to need to since thus far all my
> XML-RPC apps don't need to be secure or are inside a secure network.
>
> Might be worth the effort of implementing?

You will need to define your constraints.  For example do you need
the SSL connections to stay open and be used for multiple requests
(I did in my project as I am remoting serial ports).  What do you
need to do about certificate checking, and is any human intervention
allowed/expected?  The current Python standard library does no
SSL, no certificate checking, and makes a new connection per
request.  See another thread on the issues behind fixing that,
which are a fair bit more involved on the server end.  (You also
need to consider which Python versions you want to support).

Something else you may want to consider is using connections
over SSH instead.  SSH gives your stdout and stderr from the
remote end, so you read what is going on as a progress report.
You could structure your app so that a web browser (and/or
XML-RPC) is used to talk to the web server, and then from the
web server you fan out to the machines being administered
by using SSH.  That way you can provide feedback, need nothing
installed on the machines being admin'ed (except SSH),
and do mass changes to multiple machines.

Roger




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 19:32:04 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:32:04 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for Random module
In-Reply-To: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c35i3n$pnb$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
> the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
> are appreciated.

FYI: Mersenne Twister is a pretty spiffy pseudo random number 
generator...it is also /really/ fast.

 From what I can gather, you are using the SHA hash to behave like a 
random-number generator through updating the hash with a constant string 
and the previous state.

On the one hand, the SHA hash is not known to be generally invertable 
for any of the uniquely-mapped 160 bit input strings, or really for any 
non-trivial initial states or input strings.  It could very well be that 
it is not invertable for any string or state, but I've not done suitable 
research to know for sure.  Quite nice for an invertable perspective and 
suggesting that short cycles in state are rare, if even possible.

On the other hand, you could just as easily use the MD5 hash.  The only 
thing you get from SHA is perhaps more bits of state.  I don't know 
which one is faster though.


Now, a good question to be asked is, "What the hell do the SHA and MD5 
hashes do?"

Really, they take input character-by-character, perterb some current 
state with some non-trivially flowing functions with feedback, and 
produce a seemingly-random output that /should/ be uniform over the 
output space.  Whether or not they produce output that /is/ uniform over 
the output space is probably the result of some involved paper that I've 
not read.


One thing to remember is that the Mersenne Twister is known to cycle in 
state only after 2**19937-1 calls.  Since you haven't done any 
measurable analysis of your method, or how often it would cycle in state 
during the repeated re-setting of the state to the hash of some 
relatively short input-string, that is only pseudo-random near the end 
(the previous hash), I expect that yours may not fare much (if any) better.


One could exploit the features of both, and perhaps end up with a random 
number generator that cycles less often (if sha cycles in S iterations, 
and the mersenne twister cycles in M iterations, a new algorithm that 
cycles in SM iterations is possible, if S and M are coprime), but 
without actually analyzing their interaction, the behavior of such a 
random number generator is really only open for speculation.

  - Josiah


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 08:59:40 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:59:40 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <406828F4.2020103@stackless.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<4067C167.5050708@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40681B2B.2080106@stackless.com>
	<406826CA.6070107@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<406828F4.2020103@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <40682BCC.6020607@mlug.missouri.edu>


> If you are on anyone's machine, maybe some Linux server, and
> you don't find time to install an editor, then you use vim
> for instance, and it depends on its configuration how it
> handles Python code. Some indent for you the wrong way.
> You have no choice if you are fixing something in a hurry.


> I make my living by using several editors on several machines,
> all the time. 95 % is ok, but it often comes to situations where
> I have to hack "that code on this machine right now", and the user
> won't give me the rights or the time to fine-tune my editor
> environment.
> There is also no choice of "hands-off". The customer wants me
> to handle such minor problems as "the expert".
> This is no matter of choice but daily practice :-)

I understand. It just seems a bad idea to try to make the language work 
with the editors instead of fixing the editors to work with the 
language. If you're using spaces to act like tabs instead of tabs just 
because some editors munge tabs.



From richie at entrian.com  Tue Mar 30 09:18:50 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:18:50 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <d00j60hbn35b02mdlr072je077sd8gn4vj@4ax.com>


[Peter]
> I'm curious about the differences with wxPython.  Three seconds seems
> unusually long when on a slightly slower machine I can do it in well
> under a second.  Was that the first time you ran it?  Many other apps
> open?  I have over 256MB RAM free when I try this...

I tried it on this 3GHz 1GB XP box and it took 3.5 seconds to bring up the
wxPython demo's splash banner.  That was with lots of other stuff running and
not having run it before during this session, but with plenty of available RAM
and nothing soaking the processor.  Try it after a clean boot or a good long
disk-cache-hammering spell of doing something else - you might find it's
slower than you think.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 23:29:11 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 04:29:11 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<pif9c.10786$TY1.9017@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <406655A2.CCC571E@doe.carleton.ca>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> 
> "Fred Ma" <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote in message
> news:40652B0D.7C313F77 at doe.carleton.ca...
> <snip>
> > One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
> > files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
> > hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
> > to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
> > The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
> > have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.
> 
> If you eventually find yourself in the Python realm, please look into the
> pyparsing text parsing module, more information at
> http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net/.  I have implemented an easily-extended
> 99% Verilog parser using this module, and it may provide some shortcuts for
> you in dealing with your HDL files.
> 
> -- Paul McGuire


Hi, Paul,

I took a look at your website.  I've decided to go Perl for now,
and ramp up on Python on the side.  I think a parser has a higher
level of intelligence than regex'ing, but I hesitate to jump into
it at the moment because thesis time is running out.  I may do some
adhoc regex'ing, either with sed/Perl/gvim (it's quick and dirty,
but suitable for the time crunch of my current circumstance, which
is a hard deadline on the thesis).  Also, I'm doing the quick-and-
dirty because of limitations of an *existing* verilog parser (and
translator) which I don't want to delve into right now, for the
same reason.  But thanks for the heads up.  If things work out in
the long run, and I get to know Python, I know there is a verilog
parser to keep an eye out for.

Fred


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar  4 20:05:05 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:05:05 -0500
Subject: Especialized generator
References: <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c28jo0$dqe$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Boogie El Aceitoso" <frr149 at telefonica.net> wrote in message
news:hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6 at 4ax.com...
> I want to write a generator that specializes on os.walk. It should yield
only
> certain kinds of files.
>
> What's the best way of doing this? How do you save the state on the base
> generator?

For those who didn't get the chaining idea (latter reply): something like

def boogie_walk(testarg, *walkargs):
   for item in os.walk(*walkargs):
        if <boogie_test using testarg, item>: yield item

I presume there is also ifilter() or something in itertools that will do
the same.

Terry J. Reedy







From maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar 26 05:07:00 2004
From: maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl (Maarten van Reeuwijk)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:07:00 +0100
Subject: Vector math
References: <pan.2004.03.24.03.52.35.703059@NOSPAMml1.net>
	<c3r3bu$3ci$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c40vc5$hf8$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Check numarray:
> http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray
> and Numeric Python:
> http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/

I bumped into the same problem, but couldn't find those features, so I wrote
them myself using the Numeric package. Below follows an example where I
rotate the z-axis 45 degrees.

>>> from manips import *
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = array([1,1,1.])
>>> base = [array([1,0,0]), array([0,1,0]), array([0,0,1])]
>>> newbase = rotatebase(base, [0,0,45 / 180. * 3.14])
>>> changebase(a, newbase)
array([??1.41421345e+00,???5.63088062e-04,???1.00000000e+00])
>>> a = transpose(array([ [1,1,1.],[-1,-1,-1.]]))
>>> transpose(changebase(a, newbase)
... )
array([[??1.41421345e+00,???5.63088062e-04,???1.00000000e+00],
???????[?-1.41421345e+00,??-5.63088062e-04,??-1.00000000e+00]])

the 'transpose' commands in the second example are needed because the
changebase algorhytm expects an array containing only x, y and z values.
Below follow the two routines.

HTH, Maarten

def changebase(vecfield, newbase):
????"""?Changes?the?base?of?the?vectorfield.?newbase?is?a?list?containing
the
???????new?basevectors?(each?is?a?1D-array).?vecfield?is?a?list?containing
???????the?fields?for?the?individual?vector?components?fields.?The?lenght?of
???????the?vecfield?and?newbase?lists?must?be?identical.?The?new?field?is
???????calculated?as:
????????????*
??????????u?????=??u???b
????????????i????????j???i,j

???????Clearly,?the?basevectors?are?the?new?principal?directions?relative
???????to?the?CURRENT?coordinate?system.
???????"""

????vf?=?vecfield
????nb?=?newbase
????nf?=?[]

????if?size([vf[0]])?==?1:
????????isfield?=?False
????????tc?=?vf.typecode()
????else:
????????isfield?=?True
????????tc?=?vf[0].typecode()

????tmp?=?array(vf[0],?tc,?savespace?=?1)

????for?bcomp?in?range(len(newbase)):
????????if?isfield:
????????????tmp[:]?=?0
????????else:
????????????tmp?=?0
????????for?vcomp?in?range(len(newbase)):
????????????tmp?=?tmp?+?nb[bcomp][vcomp]?*?vf[vcomp]

????????nf.append(array(tmp))

????if?not?isfield:
????????nf?=?array(nf,?tc,?savespace?=?1).flat

????return?nf


def rotatebase(base, rotation):
????"""?Rotates?the?base?(given?as?a?list?of?lists?or?array?objects)?over?a
????????angle?given?by?rotation.?The?transformation?happens?according?to:

??????????????_?????????????????????_???????????_????????????????????_
?????????????|??1??????0??????0??????|?????????|?cos?b???0?????sin?b??|
????????Rx?=?|??0??????cos?a??-sin?a?|??;?Ry?=?|?0???????1?????0??????|
?????????????|_?0??????sin?a??cos?a?_|?????????|_-sin?b??0?????cos?b?_|

???????????????????????????????_????????????????_
??????????????????????????????|??cos?c??-sin?c?0?|
?????????????????????????Rz?=?|??sin?c??cos?c??0?|
??????????????????????????????|_?0??????0??????1_|
???????????????z
???????????????^
???????????????|
???????????????|
???????????????|??????????????????Rx?:?rotation?along?x-axis?(a?pos?from?y
-> z)
???????????????|-------->?y???????Ry?:?rotation?along?y-axis?(b?pos?from?z
-> x)
?????????????/????????????????????Rz?:?rotation?along?z-axis?(c?pos?from?x
-> y)
???????????/
?????????x

????????newbase?=?Rx?*?Ry?*?Rz?*?base?(all?matrix?multiplications)
??????"""

????alpha,?beta,?gamma?=?rotation

????sa?=?sin(alpha);?ca?=?cos(alpha)
????sb?=?sin(beta);??cb?=?cos(beta)
????sg?=?sin(gamma);?cg?=?cos(gamma)

????rot?=?array([[cb?*?cg???????????????,?-cb?*?sg???????????????,
sb??????],?\
?????????????????[sa?*?sb?*?cg?+?ca?*?sg,?-sa?*?sb?*?sg?+?ca?*?cg,?-sa?*
cb], \
?????????????????[-ca?*?sb?*?cg?+?sa?*?sg,?ca?*?sb?*?sg?+?sa?*?cg,?ca?*
cb ]])

????newbase?=?[]
????for?bv?in?base:
????????newbase.append(matrixmultiply(rot,?array(bv)))

????return?newbase

-- 
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk                    Thermal and Fluids Sciences
Phd student                             dept. of Multiscale Physics
www.ws.tn.tudelft.nl                 Delft University of Technology


From s4somesh at yahoo.co.in  Tue Mar  2 07:19:36 2004
From: s4somesh at yahoo.co.in (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 04:19:36 -0800
Subject: wxGlade not Running !
References: <mailman.10.1078202421.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5cc5bb23.0403020419.9c7b14d@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.10.1078202421.12614.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: Somesh Bartakkay
> > 
> > i installed wxGlade on System xp, when i started it ..its not 
> > running ?
> 
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> 
> Tim Delaney

Thanx !!

i want to develope GUI for python applications with wxGlade on windows
platform (win Xp). i have python 2.2 with wxpython 2.4 and python 2.3
with wxpython 2.4.

i installed win32 binary of wxGlade got from sourceforge, i remember
at first installation program has successfully launched the
application but after that its not running , means NO effect tho i
double clicked on icon ... i tried all options even i uninstalled all
pythons/wxpythons etc ...


From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 29 19:34:25 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:34:25 +0100
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
References: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de> <c49v0p$l1m$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1080606863.11331.0@nnrp-t71-01.news.uk.clara.net>

In message <c49v0p$l1m$05$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten wrote:

> As for signed integers, the sky's the limit :-)

Surely that's where you calculate pi...

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From gabor at z10n.net  Tue Mar  2 10:02:19 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:02:19 +0100
Subject: vim & python
In-Reply-To: <af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1078239738.8515.9.camel@dubb>

On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 02:48, poiboy wrote:
> Normally I use GVim next to ....

i always wanted to ask this...
why people use GVIm and not the normal-vim-in-a-terminal?

what is the advantage of gvim?

thanks,
gabor




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 13 10:13:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:13:32 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.359.1079189987.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.359.1079189987.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KAF4c.2792$G3.23594@localhost>

Premshree Pillai wrote:

> Not forcing variable initialization does have its
> problems. Here's what I mean: http://www.livejournal.com/users/premshree/10624.html?thread=53376#t53376

I believe PyChecker will catch such problems easily in most cases.

Also, developing your code using test-driven development entirely avoids 
that and many other problems without requiring the developer to waste 
time writing variable declarations all over the place, reducing 
readability and maintainability.

-Peter


From karthik at james.hut.fi  Wed Mar  3 03:31:01 2004
From: karthik at james.hut.fi (Karthikesh Raju)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:31:01 +0200
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
Message-ID: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>


Hi All,

i am wondering about the best way to read in a configuration file that
goes like:

###########

[users]
source_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/python'
data_dir   = '/home/karthik/Projects/data'
result_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/Results'
param_file = $result_dir/param_file
res_file   = $result_dir/result_file
comment    = 'this is a comment'
                                                                              
K = 8
simulate_K = 0
                                                                              
N = 4000
mod_scheme = 'QPSK'

Na = K+2

######################

As of now i use config parser and i get this in a dictionary but 

a) but i have users.na and not users.Na (all the fields are in lower
   case)

b) all the rhs arguements are string, but i have handled this by
   trying " try eval(rhs) ... except ..." block

c) Na = 'K+2' though does not work, would like to have Na = 10, but i
   get users.na = 'K+2'

d) result_file, param_file should actually be should be with pathname
   extensions filled in.

Have looked in c.l.py none one ofthe suggestions was to use
splitlines, this cant handle blank lines, other was to have config.py
.. 

Hope to get some solution for this ..

with warm regards

karthik  


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karthikesh Raju,		    email: karthik at james.hut.fi		
Researcher,			    http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
Department of Computer Sc.,
P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
Espoo, FINLAND
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Mar  1 07:06:27 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:06:27 +0100
Subject: Image width, height.
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.01.12.06.27.348825@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:38:11 +0000 schrieb Premshree Pillai:

> Hello,
> 
> Is there a Py module available using which I can find
> the width and height of any image format?

Hello,

try 'identify -format "%w %h"' with popen.

identify is part of imagemagick.

Sorry, that's no python module, but maybe it
helps you, too.

HTH,
 Thomas



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 17 19:42:09 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 16:42:09 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>

"Andrew Koenig" <ark at acm.org> wrote in message news:<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message
> news:mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list at python.org...
> Andrew Koenig wrote:
> > "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c at posting.google.com...
> >
> > > Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is
>  unspecified
> > > and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.
> >
> > Hardly.  It has two fundamental properties, which can
> > sometimes be useful:
> >
> >     1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" yields True.
> >
> >     2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True.
> > Equivalently, if
> > "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also yields False.
> 
> Assuming nobody has overridden __eq__, of course. ;)
> 
> Indeed -- if == is redefined so as not to be an equivalence relation, all
> bets are off.

In fact __eq__ can be redefined even /so as to be an equivalence
relation/ such that x==y => True and x is y => False.  The
'fundamental properties' posisted, are simply not fundamental.


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Mar  8 19:08:15 2004
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:08:15 -0600
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <slrnc4ptnh.v3n.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <2004030818081575249%cs1spw@bathacuk>

On 2004-03-08 16:42:57 -0600, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> said:
>     Install Mailman and make the list postable only by you.  :P

We've already looked at mailman and a number of other packages. None of 
them fit our requirements as we need to be able to tie the list 
administration in to our existing user authentication / admin control 
panel, plus we want to tie the email lists to our membership databases. 
We've got most of the other infrastructure already, we just need an 
efficient way of sending out bulk emails to a large list of addresses.

Thanks,

Simon


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:12:50 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:50 +1300
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <7xptbjdl2f.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<5d83790c.0403111415.6485048@posting.google.com>
	<7xptbjdl2f.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c2r9ri$1voigv$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> What about the assert statement?  Should that be a function too?

No, because then the compiler wouldn't be able to optimise
it away when asserts are turned off.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From bo at systemhouse.dk  Sun Mar  7 07:31:27 2004
From: bo at systemhouse.dk (Bo Jacobsen)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:31:27 +0100
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
References: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<20040307020101.539$r9@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <OCE2c.105781$jf4.6357260@news000.worldonline.dk>

> In article <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669 at news000.worldonline.dk> (Sun, 07 Mar
> 2004 05:14:20 +0100), Bo Jacobsen wrote:
>
> > I'm new to Python, and it looks as if there is no
> > C like "#include and extern" or function protypes.
>
> That's right.
>
> > No shell like ".
> > ../filename"
>
> I don't understand this part.
>
> > Is there any way to implement them ?
>
> I don't know.  I've been a C programmer for almost exactly 20 years:
Neither
> "extern" nor function prototypes are necessary in Python.
>
> > PS: For me, "import module" is no replacement for include.
>
> "import" and "#include" do not have exactly the same meaning but they
> accomplish more or less the same result.
>
> What is it you're trying to do that requires these C/C++ features?

I'm looking for a future replacement for bash and I have a number of large
shell scripts that need to be translated to a language that are better at
handling
more complicated datatypes.
I'm been looking at perl and python, and I really like the strict syntax,
handling
of function parameters etc. Without include and function prototyping though,
will probably have the effect that large source files, with a lot of
function
definitions at the top, will be generated. Not god.

Perl on the other hand has it all, including very productive features as
built-in
regular expressions, file scanning etc. but I dont like all the
type-characters and
the "lose" syntax.


. ./filename
Is the shell "include/execute" command.

Bo




From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Wed Mar 17 19:05:53 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:05:53 +0100
Subject: Unicode and UrlEncode!
References: <ba129ce7.0403171512.8a276d4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.108.1079566851.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3apn2$9rn$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

OK

?a marche avec :


sret=translate_french_to_english('s?dimentation'.decode("latin-1").encode("u
tf-8"))
et aussi pour :

sret=translate_french_to_english('s?dimentation'.decode("latin-1").encode("u
tf-8"))


Merci pour lui.  (thanks).



@-salutation
--
Michel Claveau




From eric at zomething.com  Tue Mar 30 00:55:03 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:55:03 -0800
Subject: PyPerl 1.0.1 [requires Visual Studio compiler?]
Message-ID: <20040329215503.1365541070.eric@zomething.com>


It seems like this is the second time I have come across this with a Python module, and I'd like to get some perspective on it.

I tried to build PyPerl (on my Win XP machine) and got the following:

    Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
    (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

    C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pyperl-1.0.1>setup.py install

    running install
    running build
    running build_py
    creating build
    creating build\lib.win32-2.3
    copying dbi.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
    copying dbi2.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
    copying perlpickle.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
    copying perlmod.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
    running build_ext
    error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and extensions need to
    be built with the same version of the compiler, but it isn't installed.

As I'm a just poor boy with a dog, I do not own or use Visual Studio (as nice as it may be).  I do have/use the mingw 2.95.2-1 C++ compiler (in case of an emergency or if my life gets too simple).

Is it possible to build this module with what I have?  Should I expect to need Visual Studio from time to time for building Python modules which dive into C++?  Am I totally off track here?  Is this just what I get for not absorbing some readme file?


Eric Pederson





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 17 13:06:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:06:22 -0500
Subject: Python behaviour with unrecognized string escapes (was Re:
 imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation)
In-Reply-To: <40585BB3.5000307@mxm.dk>
References: <mailman.77.1079525205.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40585BB3.5000307@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <Ze6dnc_cZq8ADsXdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Max M wrote:
> Oliver Kurz wrote:
> 
>  > I call the uid like this
>  >
>  > uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")
> 
> 
> Are you shure you don't mean::
> 
>     uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\\SEEN)")
> 
> You are trying to create a non-existent special character, escaping the 
> s in your example.
> 
> I am not quite shure how Python reacts to that.

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
 >>> '\s'
'\\s'
 >>> '\\s'
'\\s'

Seems that it if it doesn't recognize the escape, the effect is the same 
as if you had escaped the escape character in the first place...

-Peter


From roy at panix.com  Wed Mar 17 22:02:47 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:02:47 -0500
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-55E83C.22024717032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h at 4ax.com>,
 droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I have just started learning python and encountered a problem.
> All I wanted to do, was to open a text file search and count the
> number of occurances of a single word and print that count.
> Thanks for help.
> 

Well, I'll point you in the right direction.

To open a file, use the "open" function.  You can loop through the lines 
with something like "for line in file:". Depending on exactly how you 
define "word", you might want to look at the split() string method, or 
maybe some regular expression matching with the "re" module.

There, that should be enough to get you started with your homework 
assignment :-)


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Sun Mar 14 19:15:00 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:15:00 -0700
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.320.1079113077.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<87y8q52pvb.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<4052BD1F.B8190E0D@pobox.com> <87brmz3khm.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<4054A2A5.9032BE1B@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4054F475.C71B96EA@pobox.com>

Ok, this hasn't been tested very well, but it seems to make
IDLE+subprocess work as I'd want it to with Tkinter applications.  Just
replace Lib/idlelib/run.py with this file:
	http://home.earthlink.net/~jasonrandharper/run.py

You can even do interactive experimentation with Tkinter now.  Try this:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> root = Tk()
>>> mainloop()

At this point, IDLE's shell window would normally cease to accept input.
 Now, you immediately get a prompt back, although internally it's
working rather differently than a normal prompt.  Meanwhile, the Tk
window is fully movable, resizable, and closable.

>>> Button(root, text="spam!").pack()

The button immediately appears and is clickable (of course, it doesn't
do much).

>>> Button(root, text="die!", command=root.destroy).pack()

If you use this button, or close the window, the mainloop will exit. 
You'll need to create a new root window, and start a new mainloop() if
you want to do anything further with Tk.
	Jason Harper


From no at sp.am  Mon Mar 22 19:34:32 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:34:32 -0600
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
>"def foo() as staticmethod" certainly looks best to me aesthetically.

It does look better with simple examples.  But think of other potential 
uses for an "as" keyword, and it might have problems.
Visual Basic uses "as" in function declarations to declare types, not 
for function decorators.
VB example:
Function foo (x as Integer, y as Float) as Integer

Possible future Python example that uses "as" differently:

def foo(x as int, y as float) as int:
    "this function returns an integer, and takes an int & float params"

If we use the list syntax for decorators instead of "as", we might be 
able to do something like:

def foo(x as int, y as float) [synchronized, classmethod] as int:
    ...

See this thread:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/thread.html#42780


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 21:11:40 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:11:40 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <mailman.475.1080412762.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40661C14.8365E058@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106cd2srpsjq571@corp.supernews.com>

In article <40661C14.8365E058 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>On the topic of speed, It's surprising to hear that this can be possibly rivaled
>by Perl/Python, considering that even my matlab code is about 10x slower than
>C++.  That's with extensive profiling and round-about coding styles to exploit
>vectorization tricks, and no such effort in the C++ code.  Some of the
>limitations are pretty fundamential e.g. large speed penalties for invoking
>nonbuiltin functions.  Such limitations discourage clear coding practice e.g.
>huge swaths of code to avoid encapsulating some functionality in its own
>function.  Together with the sometimes roundabout coding style, it can detract
>from the matlab's high level ease of programming and clarity, especially
>considering that C++ can be brought to a high level with its STL library.  And
>this speed disparity shows up despite matlab's mission to develop in a way that
>rivals 3G languages.  Speed considerations aside, however, matlab is infinitely
>easier to use and to read.  With time, perhaps the limitations will shrink.
>
>This is not to say that Perl/Python will have the same limitations.  They are,
>however, more general purpose languages, so I expect that speed is less of a
>priority than in scientific computing (compared to other important priorities).
>Hence, learning curve aside, some time needs to be invested in exploring its
>speed in a realistic scientific applications.  For me, this is an option for the
>more distant future rather than the immediate term. I spent quite alot of time
>in this phase with matlab, trying to squeeze out all possible speed before
>conceding that some of the limits were fundamental, at least in the current
>release.
>
>One thing I learned was that speed characterization was not a simple.  Many of
>the tasks found in scientific computing are done blistering fast by matlab.  It
>is not until you put together a larger application when you start running into
>the limitations.  Aside from the speed penalties of calling nonbuiltins,
			.
			.
			.
'Couple of reactions:  first, I think it's entirely healthy 
for you to focus on finishing your dissertation.  Everything
else is and should be subordinate to that.  Picking up as
much of Perl as you need to achieve that goal, but not more,
is thoroughly sensible.

Second, be aware that I'm the only one in this thread who has
made explicit claims that it's reasonable to expect Perl- or
Python-based applications to rival those in C++ for
performance.  Maybe I'm wrong, or, more charitably, maybe I'm
making assumptions that I've kept implicit.  It certainly is
possible to exhibit comparable-looking C and Python programs,
where the former is over a hundred times as fast as the latter.
Still, I'm sticking with my claim:  for practical, effective
algorithmic experimentation, PDL, Numpy, and comparable exten-
sions bring 'P' programs' achieved speed up to the level of
C++.

Ultimately, you're right:  "speed characterization [is] not
simple."

Perl and Python feel like breaths of fresh air after Matlab
precisely for their scalability and maintainability.  Matlab
just doesn't generalize and abstract and express as agilely
as the more general-purpose programming languages.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 06:49:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:49:58 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16469.39014.567636.658228@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dave> Maybe we could somehow switch off the generation of shared objects
    Dave> for modules in a 'debug' mode.

You'd have to disable the integer free list.  There's also code in
tupleobject.c to recognize and share the empty tuple.  String interning
could be disabled as well.  Everybody's ignored the gorilla in the room:

    >>> sys.getrefcount(None)
    1559

In general, I don't think that disabling immutable object sharing would be
worth the effort.  Consider the meaning of module level integers.  In my
experience they are generally constants and are infrequently changed once
set.  Probably the only thing worth tracking down during a super reload
would be function, class and method definitions.

Skip



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 08:24:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:24:19 -0500
Subject: newbie question: nop statement for try/except
In-Reply-To: <m2n06ht0vi.fsf@bella.local>
References: <m2n06ht0vi.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <mgD5c.2987$G3.26990@localhost>

leo wrote:

> hi there
> 
> the "try/[except|finally]" construct seems to need the second part "except"
> resp. "finally" due to syntactical reasons.
> 
> but in some cases i guess i do not need any statement in the second
> part. but just carrying on without an idented block doesn't work.
> 
> so, is there something a no-operation statement?

"pass"

(Without the quotes.)

(Actually, with the quotes would work too, for reasons I'll leave up to
the reader to find out. :-)

-Peter


From roberto at inf.puc-rio.br  Wed Mar  3 07:37:33 2004
From: roberto at inf.puc-rio.br (Roberto Ierusalimschy)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:37:33 -0300
Subject: Lua Book
Message-ID: <200403031237.i23CbXb27583@arraial.inf.puc-rio.br>

> Provocative comparison; perhaps Roberto will even join in
> and comment here.

As I was invited, I will give a few short comments:

>I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather
>trivial.

You should read the book. There you would learn that Lua offers
coroutines (the real ones). With them, you can write a generator quite
similar to the piece you wrote:

  function allwords ()
    return coroutine.wrap(function ()
             for line in io.lines() do
               for word in string.gfind(line, "%w+") do
                 coroutine.yield(word)
               end
             end
           end)
  end

  for word in allwords() do
    print(word)
  end

You can also write it in a Ruby-iterator style (using anonymous
functions instead of blocks):

  function allwords (yield)
    for line in io.lines() do
      for word in string.gfind(line, "%w+") do
        yield(word)
      end
    end
  end

  -- usage example
  local count = 0
  allwords(function (word) count = count + 1 end)
  print("number of words: " .. count)



> The full text [of the book] was available on the net

Please notice that the text available on the net is an old version; it
is quite different from the final book.


> having finished the book I was left feeling that the core language
> offered nothing useful over Python, in fact it was rather lacking
> in many areas. [...] it's unlikely to ever come close to Python for
> general purpose coding.

This is a sensible opinion. (And apparently well based, as you read the
book :) Lua and Python have different goals; and different people have
different opinions.

-- Roberto



From wenming_hu2002 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 21:28:46 2004
From: wenming_hu2002 at hotmail.com (wenming_hu)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:28:46 +0800
Subject: how to write python server page by using mod_python?
Message-ID: <c28olb$12ha$1@mail.cn99.com>

i want to set the default page of a site, the same as writing asp or jsp.

who can tell me how to realize that?

er, i have a another question, i want to put my site in a separate
directory, (for example, e:\psp_site), i put the following in apache's
config:

<Directory "f:/psp_site/">

    AddHandler python_program .py
    PythonHandler main

    PythonAutoReload On
    PythonDebug On

</Directory>

but to my disappointed, it doesn't work! :-(

who can help me?




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar  2 20:40:07 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 01:40:07 GMT
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
References: <mailman.48.1078254402.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c23d1n$o5o$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:06:36 -0500, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Thomas Heller]
>> [I'm currently reading python-list via the gmane nntp interface, I
>> don't know whether there really is a gmane.comp.web.zope.devel
>> newsgroup]
>
>I don't know either, so I'll copy you directly.
>
>[Tim]
>>> ...
>>> Here's a Python program to try:
>>>
>>> """
>>> import sys
>>> if 1:   # edit to 1 for stdout, 0 for stderr
>>>     console = sys.stdout
>>> else:
>>>     console = sys.stderr
>>>
>>> import traceback
>>> tb = file('tb.txt', 'w')
>>>
>>> try:
>>>     i = 0
>>>     while True:
>>>         i += 1
>>>         console.write('.')
>>> except:
>>>     print >> tb, "Died when trying to write byte", i
>>>     traceback.print_exc(file=tb)
>>>     tb.close()
>>> """
>>>
>>> Under Win98SE, and regardless of whether it writes to stdout or
>>> stderr, it dies when run under pythonw, and tb.txt contains this
>>> after:
>>>
>>> Died when trying to write byte 4097
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "wr.py", line 14, in ?
>>>     console.write('.')
>>> IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>
>[Thomas]
>> I get exactly the same, on Win XP Pro, both for sys.stdout and
>> sys.stderr.
>
>That's good to know!  Thanks.
>
>> ...
>> Since it seems XP shows the same behaviour than win98SE, has the
>> behaviour of Python changed?  Were IOErrors ignored on sys.stdout or
>> sys.stderr in earlier versions?
>
>No, the same program fails the same way here under pythonw 2.2.3 and 2.1.3
>(with s/file/open/ and s/True/1/).  The OP wasn't clear about what "it"
>meant, though (in "it used to work").  I guess it's most likely he meant
>running Zope 2.5 as a service used to work, not that running Zope 2.5 by
>hand from a DOS box with pythonw used to work, but don't know.  It's
>certainly possible that something relevant changed in Zope, and/or in how
>Zope tries to live with Windows services.
>
>> IIRC, /F first proposed that pythonw.exe should create a console to
>> have a place to show tracebacks.  Sounds like a good idea to me.
>
>Some way of having pythonw not drop output into the bit bucket has sounded
>like a good idea to everyone for about a decade now <wink>.
>
>ideas-ain't-code-ly y'rs  - tim
>
You can call AllocConsole safely at the last moment before spewing text, I think,
and without even checking if there already is one (I think it will quietly do nothing
if there is, IIRC from old Delphi days).

I don't think people want to see console windows along with their GUIs when things are normal,
but post mortem is another thing, and this is a simple call. Also it gives you a handy separate
window to put debug messages to just by using print, which can be handy with
if __debug__: -conditional code or temporary hacks.

_____________________________________________________________________________

    The AllocConsole function allocates a new console for the
    calling process.


    BOOL AllocConsole(VOID)


    Parameters


    This function has no parameters.


    Return Value


    If the function succeeds, the return value is TRUE. If the
    function fails, the return value is FALSE. To get extended
    error information, call GetLastError.


    Remarks


    A process can only be associated with one console, so
    AllocConsole fails if the calling process already has a
    console. A process can use the FreeConsole function to
    detach itself from its current console, and then it can call
    AllocConsole to create a new console. If the calling process
    creates a child process, the child inherits the new console.
    AllocConsole also sets up standard input, standard output,
    and standard error handles for the new console. The standard
    input handle is a handle to the console's input buffer, and
    the standard output and standard error handles are handles
    to the console's screen buffer. To retrieve these handles,
    use the GetStdHandle function.


    This function is primarily used by graphics applications to
    create a console window. Graphics applications are
    initialized without a console. Console applications are
    normally initialized with a console, unless they are created
    as detached processes (by calling the CreateProcess function
    with the DETACHED_PROCESS flag).


    See Also


    CreateProcess, FreeConsole, GetStdHandle
_____________________________________________________________________________

AllocConsole should be easy to call through one of the win32 interfaces.
Maybe we should just make a DLL that would just do that and nothing else when imported.

Re Emile's situation, I think there may be an additional factor. I.e., output from a windows
service to an interactive window requires a special checkbox somewhere in the service setup,
I think, since services normally run as a non-interactive process with separate user identity
from whoever might be locally logged on.

That bit in your '.' output suggests to me that there's a 4k buffer write being triggered and
that is the thing that runs into no place to write. I wonder if it wouldn't trigger earlier with
newlines or explicit flush or -U ?

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar  4 20:19:26 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:19:26 -0500
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de><1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net><40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de><Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95><c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu><17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01><s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com><4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c28kit$fe8$1@sea.gmane.org>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:52:27 GMT, Dang Griffith
> >On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0700, David MacQuigg wrote:
> >
> >>The 'print' statement is just shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write' with
> >>some convenience features suitable for most users. \

> >'print' is not a shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write'.

Depends on how fussy one is being about the meaning of 'shortcut'.
'Syntactic sugar' is another way to put it.

> I'm not using the word 'shortcut' very precisely.

I think you were precise enough for informal clp discussion with no
retraction needed.

>  Mark Lutz says what
> I mean more clearly in Learning Python, 2nd ed. p. 143: "the print
> statement ... provides a user-friendly interface to the sys.stdout
> object, with bit of default formatting."

And Guido said much the same about 5 years ago in clp.

Terry J. Reedy






From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 21:54:38 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 02:54:38 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>
	<roy-F3D505.13543307032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<71tm409egnua4ncic1siadnk7fi9rqnp8e@4ax.com>
	<roy-A5F5A9.15490607032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4vln40d5cepfccljgtksjpi054pfb7u1fo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:49:07 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>In some respects, you're right.  Certainly, both ways get you the same 
>pseudo-random flow of control, but that's inherent in a state machine.  
>What the function-per-state approach gets you is modularity.  Each 
>function at least has its own namespace and set of local variables. 

This is actually pretty much the point. The function involved is only
sufficiently complex to warrant unit tests when taken as a whole. The
processing within a state could be compared with the inner loop of,
say, an strcpy. A little more complex, but only a little.

The total number of states is pretty small, 6 in total, with the
awkwardness of a non-state-based approach resulting entirely from the
arrangement of transitions. And as I said, it is what I call 'short
running' - the whole thing runs to completion in probably a few
hundred cycles for typical cases.

If the states had a significant amount of code I'd agree with you, but
as it stands it is easier and more useful to write the unit tests for
that one function.

I just wish I had the example ten years ago, when I suggested the
exactly this pattern as a potential justification for gotos to a
college lecturer but couldn't think of a use case. It's so unfair that
I don't get to say 'told you so, told you so, nur nur na-nur nur' :-)

Anyway, the point is, no - I'm not nuts. Honest. Well, I am, but not
about this. It's just a bizarre special case, interesting only as...
well, not even interesting really I suppose - I'm just bored.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  6 13:41:20 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:41:20 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <kXo2c.52803$Kc3.1618546@twister2.libero.it>

> (1) deeply nested loops
>
> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>     if (/* some test */) goto END;

done = 0
while k < 10 and not done:
     k += 1
     while j < 10 and not done:
         j+=1
         while i < 10 and not done:
              i+=1
              if /*some test*/: done = 1


> and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
>
> BEGIN:
> for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;
>

while n < 20:
    if /*some test*/: n = 0

There is always a way to not use "goto".

-- 
Don't you know why your Python application has crashed?
Take a look to http://www.pycrash.org
My Home Page http://cnoviello.altervista.org




From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar  2 04:20:33 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 11:20:33 +0200
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Paddy" == Paddy McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.net> writes:

    Paddy> from ESR on his scripting language tools. I would be
    Paddy> interested to know if he still usesPython? Did he try any
    Paddy> other "scripting" languages such as Ruby or Lua?

Yes - for example he wrote a prototype of his SCO source code
comparison tool in Python. I think he still mostly uses Python for the
stuff he writes himself.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jgentil at sebistar.net  Sun Mar 14 23:05:17 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:05:17 -0600
Subject: Problem with parsing XML
In-Reply-To: <a091da2f.0403141901.59675c43@posting.google.com>
References: <a091da2f.0403141901.59675c43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079323517.1117.29.camel@mastermind>

On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 21:01, James Laamnna wrote:
> So I have an XML document with &eacute; and other non-XML chars.
> I'm wondering the best way to parse this using xml.dom.minidom.
> 
> I've tried using a translation document to transmate &eacute; to &#233;
> But now the characters just disappear.
> Any suggestions?

Use DOCTYPE entity declarations?

Like this:

<!DOCTYPE xsl:stylesheet [<!ENTITY nbsp "&#160;">]>

You can define &eacute too.

-- 
Jon-Pierre Gentil      :   PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
    AIM: Zenethian     :   Jabber: jgentil at jabber.org
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From fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 06:53:00 2004
From: fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk (DomF)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:53:00 -0000
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <1080215476.12849.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>

Damn, I was hoping for a question about cars and beer :)

"Kenneth McDonald" <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net...
> For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
> and then find out the following information about functions and
> methods defined within it:
>
> 1) Parameter names and order
> 2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
> 3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
> parameter list.
>
> Reading documentation about function objects, the only
> relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
> default param values, which is not useful to me.
>
> I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
> I would strongly prefer a simpler way. I'd have thought that,
> like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
> would also be stored with function objects.
>
> Thanks,
> Ken





From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 17 20:50:01 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 17:50:01 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403171750.7a300cb2@posting.google.com>

axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote in message news:<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4 at posting.google.com>...
>                                       Why would anybody ever want to
> know whether two strings or tupels are internally stored at the same
> location, other than to deduce details of the Python implementation?

Most obviously to tell whether they are the same object or not.  
While this is not an issue with simple strings, have you considered
what effect your suggestions would have on classes inheriting from
str?

For instance I might have a class 'Name', in a names database, which
is a specialised string.  In this case '==' function looks to the
contents of the strings being compared, while 'is' tells me whether
these two strings are the same object.  Thus "if name0 == name1 and
not name0 is name1" will tell me that I am dealing with a duplicate
record.  Now this might not be the best way to find duplicates in
practice, it's simply first thing that popped into my head in response
to your question.  But I don't think I'm able to anticipate all the
ways in which all programmers might want to apply the distinction
between equivalence and identity in their programs?  Are you?

By the way you /have/ written a program in which a large (or at least
important) part of the logic was contained in the __eq__ method to the
class you created, haven't you?  I mean you wouldn't really be in a
situation to advocate a redefinition of the identity/equivalence
relationship unless you had, would you?


From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 11:24:38 2004
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:24:38 -0800
Subject: Abstraction library for Authentication (module like PEAR Auth)
Message-ID: <899f842.0403230824.4a4ba0ab@posting.google.com>

Are there any modules for python that provide abstraction for authentication?

Pear Auth supports

POP3
LDAP
SOAP
passwd file
SAMBA
IMAP
RADIUS
http://pear.php.net/manual/en/packages.auth.php

Anthony
http://xminc.com/mt/


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 10 12:04:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:04:00 -0700
Subject: Regex Match Problem
References: <59c05c40.0403100717.30e6dbb2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8nhu4059js0lrc10ks9io6p4j70r7abj96@4ax.com>

On 10 Mar 2004 07:17:12 -0800, bradwiseathome at hotmail.com (bdwise)
wrote:

>I have this in my body tag:
>
>something();something();
>document.thisForm.textBox1.focus();something();
>
>And I want to find a part between the semicolons that ends in focus()
>and remove the entire value between the semicolons.
>
>My Regular Expression looks like this but it is not matching, can
>anyone help?
>
>";([^.]*).focus()"

You need to escape the metacharacters.  Try
r";.*\.focus\(\).*;"
Also, use a raw quote, so you don't have to escape the escapes.

Don't forget to set re.DOTALL if you want the '.*' to capture newlines
also.

There is a nice interactive tool for testing these expressions at
../Pyton23/Tools/Scripts/redemo.py

There is a good intro to regular expressions at
http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/

-- Dave



From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Mar 26 15:03:45 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 20:03:45 GMT
Subject: import a modified module
References: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
	<mailman.438.1080272287.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5fs8601oef2glokd0i8tbbvso84rrjdku5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c422b1$fo6$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> The docs on reload are a little confusing.  I've written a piece at
> http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm
> 
> Your comments are welcome.

Hm.  Your second ("more detailed") example is visually confusing, and
matters aren't helped by your use of what I would call suboptimal (or
at least nonstandard-for-Python) terminology such as "references."
This leads you into at least technical error, e.g.

    Perhaps the most confusing thing about reload is that it changes
    only references in its own namespace (with names like "M1.a" above).
    It does not change references outside this namespace (with
    names like "a" above ).

An admittedly pathological counterexample:

    >>> import M1
    >>> from M1 import a, b
    >>> print M1.a, M1.b
    [1, 2] abc
    >>> print a, b
    [1, 2] abc
    >>> reload(M1)
    <module 'M1' from 'M1.py'>
    >>> print M1.a, M1.b
    [1, 2, 3] ABC
    >>> print a, b
    [1, 2, 3] abc

How did a (in the __main__ namespace) track a (in the M1 namespace)?
Easy - in editing M1.py I replaced:

    a = [1, 2]

with:

    a.append(3)

Of course that *is* pathological - as is, M1.py cannot be freshly
imported because a would have no initial binding.  But I think in
explaining reload() one should strive for a formulation under which
this outcome would not be surprising.

(Really, to have a hope of understanding reload one first has to
understand import.)

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
    The supreme misfortune is when theory outstrips performance.
				- Leonardo da Vinci




From james at ractive.ch  Wed Mar 31 16:55:03 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:55:03 +0200
Subject: Simulate socket with files or stdin/stdout
Message-ID: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>

Dear python-Community

We are forced to use a quite old simulation software that's based on
Modula-2. The idea is now to let this software "talk" to the outside world
over a TCP/IP network.

Since the program has no possibility to use sockets or other mechanisms to
send data over the network we have the idea to let python do the network
part and let the simu software communicate with the python script in some
other way:

One idea is to use stdout and stdin (but I'm not even sure if stdout/in are
available in the simulation software).

+------------+  stdout     stdin  +------------+  socket.write
|            |------------------->|  python-   |----------------
| Simulation |                    |  script    |
|            |<-------------------|            |<---------------
+------------+  stdin      stdout +------------+  socket.read


The other idea is to use files to communicate between the simultion program
and the python script.

+------------+     +------+     +------------+  socket.write
|            |---->|      |---->|  python-   |--------------
| Simulation |     | File |     |  script    |
|            |<----|      |<----|            |<-------------
+------------+     +------+     +------------+  socket.read


Now my question is, if someone has done something similar and can give me
some hints where to start, what to look for etc. Maybe someone even has
another idea how to solve this problem.

A skript that does something similar like "netcat" would be a good starting
point, since I'm really new to python programming.


The script should be usable on the MAC, PC and UNIX platform.


I'm very thankful for any input you can give me to find a good solution for
this.


Thanks

James




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar  9 19:41:16 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:41:16 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<5sbs40l90vpumpp3u72a4259gp83j4mfih@4ax.com>
	<roy-D80C5F.16552209032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <60ps40h8v483t10kg3misnbsqfrhe1nigo@4ax.com>

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:55:22 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>In article <5sbs40l90vpumpp3u72a4259gp83j4mfih at 4ax.com>,
> Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I'm just me.
>
>Yeah, that's what they all say.

Rats, I've been caught!

OK, I confess, I'm not me at all ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From glingl at aon.at  Thu Mar  4 13:43:48 2004
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:43:48 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
Message-ID: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>

"Quality of design" may - for instance - consist
in deleting 7 characters:

Today I made - by accident - an interesting
observation. The following is a snippet from
a program which computes anagrams from a wordlist:

def find_anagrams(wordlist):
     d = {}
     for word in wordlist:
	sig = anagram_signature(word)
	if sig not in d:
             d[sig] = []     # d.setdefault intentionally not used
     return d

On my machine it computes d
for a wordlist of 10000 items in less than 0.13s
and for a wordlist of 20000 items in less than 0.25s

Today one of my students inadvertedly wrote in the fifth line

         if sig not in d.keys():

and now timing of find_anagrams had the following results:

for a wordlist of 10000 items approx. 9.33s, i.e a factor
of approx 65 slower

and for a wordlist of 20000 items approx. 60s, i.e. a factor
of approx 250 slower. (!!!) (Imagine that the full wordlist
in this example has 45000 entires, so an additional factor of
16 applies ...)

I think this is a very astonishing and relevant difference!
I think I understand why it is the case - the timing factor
is proportional to the square of len(wordlist), because
in every loop a list d.keys() has to be computed and now
this has to be used for searching for the key sig,
while for sig in d uses some built-in generator-property
of dictionaries ...  (?)

*on_the_other_ hand* I thought, that those two idioms
are semantically identical. So my question: why does the
Python interpreter not recognize this identity and internally
replace the latter by the first in order to get *much*
better performance?

- would this lead to wrong results in some cases?
- or would it be too difficult to implement?
- or is this considered a problem of minor importance?
- or was it only forgotten to do?
- or what else?

Regards,
Gregor

P.S.: Or was the key in dict idiom introduced exactly
inorder to solve this problem?


From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Sun Mar 21 21:17:54 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> wrote...

> Personnally, I prefer the "as" syntax to the other proposed (and by a 
> large margin).  However, I feel that it is making the language more 
> complex and I'm far from sure it's worth the effort.

I'd +1 for the 'as' syntax too, it's more descriptive and feels
'pythonic' (much as the term disgusts me) in its verbosity.

Personally, I think for the meager benefit this new syntax brings, it
appears to be a rather large and incompatible waste of time. With the
exception of syntactic beauty, does this really add anything to
Python? It gives programmers two ways of doing something very basic
indeed. Both proposed syntaxes will inevitably break existing source
analysers, etc.

Even preferring the 'as' syntax, 'def foo(x) as bar' doesn't really
make that much sense to me. staticmethods are wrapper objects and much
better expressed as 'foo = staticmethod(foo)', where you at least know
some kind of layering or transformation is being applied to foo (if
there isn't, why is this person using the same variable name? etc).
With 'as', it suggests some kind of aliasing is taking place, or some
kind of different type of object creation, which isn't the case.

It's also very specific syntax, I'd have hoped big language changes
like this would be reserved for larger, more fundamental, and general
changes that everyone can find useful. Did I say I didn't think it's
worth it already? :)


David.


From hakan at netg.se  Sat Mar  6 22:48:47 2004
From: hakan at netg.se (Hakan Nilsson)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:48:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <4049E0D5.2000504@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403070436290.3289-100000@elvegris.netg.se>

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004, pxlpluker wrote:

> I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
> stored on disk.
>
> the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
> name appear in the browser DL window.
>
> i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
> have real name show in File Save dialog.
>
> in essence i want to push the file name to the browser
>
> Fred

This is not so much a python issue as it is an issue of knowing what the
browsers do when they get special input.
But, since I recently did this myself I have the answer handy. ;o)

Most browsers check the name between the last / and the end of the line
(or "?" if you have extra get-parameters) and put that as default name in
the file save-dialog. So all you need to do is something like the following:

info = { "filename": "apa.txt", "fileid": "10001" }
the_url = '<a href="download.py/%(filename)s?id=%(fileid)s">%(filename)s</a>'%info

As far as I can tell you are only interested in the file id, then this
should work with no problem for you and you can get the id-parameter
through the standard cgi-object, or however you chose to do.
The filename (essentially anything you chose to put between the / and the ?)
will be available through an extra-path-info variable, probably also
available in the standard cgi-object.

Hope this helps,

/Hakan

-
 Hi! I'm a .signature virus!
 Copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!




From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Tue Mar  2 03:08:05 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:08:05 +0100 
Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F003915F12@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Hi Larry,

try the following:

win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
    'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\servicemanager.pyd',
    'Application')

The PythonService.exe doesn't contain the messages, but servicemanager.pyd
does.

cheers,


pieter

Creo
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Larry Bates
Sent: 02 March 2004 00:20
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems

I have tried everything I know to get my NT service
to make correct entries in the NT Event Log when the
service is started and stopped (and eventually when
permanent failures occur).

I'm copying the code I see on page 356 of Python
Programming on Win32 and for the life of me I cannot
get this to work properly.  Basically I have
the following code snippet at the top of my SvcDoRun
method:

import servicemanager
servicemanager.LogMsg(
    servicemanager.EVENTLOG_INFORMATION_TYPE,
    servicemanager.PYS_SERVICE_STARTED,
    (self._svc_name_,''))

I also inserted the following to make the proper
registry entries when the service is installed:

win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
    'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\PythonService.exe',
    'Application')

The entry that gets put into the Event Log is as follows:

The description for Event ID ( 4098 ) in Source
( PythonService ) cannot be found. The local computer
may not have the necessary registry information or
message DLL files to display messages from a remote
computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE=
flag to retrieve this description; see Help and
Support for details. The following information is
part of the event: AFR, .

Note:  _svc_name_="AFR"

Something is not set correctly, but for the life of me
I cannot determine what.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Regards,
Larry Bates


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From JimJJewett at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 23:33:23 2004
From: JimJJewett at yahoo.com (Jim Jewett)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 20:33:23 -0800
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>	<cab22418.0403231139.39085891@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.305.1080075847.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cab22418.0403242033.45b9a98e@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.305.1080075847.742.python-list at python.org>...
>     Jim> With decorators, the function definition itself is normal 
>     Jim> (and therefore should not be indented); it is the decorators
>     Jim> that run at an unexpected time.
 
>     Jim> using:
>     Jim>     decorator1
>     Jim>     decorator2
>     Jim>     decorator3
>     Jim> def a (args):
>     Jim>     pass

> Note that the undent at the end of the using: block also implies 
> that "we're done" with the block.  If I wrote

>     using:
>         decorator1
>         decorator2
>         decorator3
>     def a (args):
>         pass
>     def b (args):
>         pass
 
> would a and b both be decorated or just a?  What about if I wrote

Just a.  (If you want grouping, then you'll need a third header
clause to indicate that the using is done.)

if blocks (and for and while blocks, with the else) have the same issue.
The grammar production continues if and only if the next non-indented 
line is a valid continuation header clause.

    if test:
        stmt
        stmt
    elif:     # elif continues an if
        stmt
        stmt
    else:     # else continues an if
        stmt


    if test:
        stmt
    x = 5     # a binding does not continue an if; now it is over.

 
>     using:
>         decorator1
>         decorator2
>         decorator3
>     x = really_complex_default()
>     def a (arg1, arg2=x):
>         pass
 
> Would a be decorated or not?

Syntax error.  using: header clause not followed by def: or 
class: header clause.

The one part that feels awkward to me is that the optional 
clause (using:) comes first instead of second (elif:) or 
last (else:).

-jJ


From slimick at venango.upb.pitt.edu  Wed Mar 17 17:37:16 2004
From: slimick at venango.upb.pitt.edu (John Slimick)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:37:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
Message-ID: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>

I want to do a little Tkinter in my 1 credit 
python practicum, but I am having problems
getting everything installed correctly.
A sample of the problem is below:


------------------- The python source, test.py ------------------
from graphics import *

def main():
    win = GraphWin("My Circle", 100, 100)
    c = Circle(Point(50,50), 10)
    c.draw(win)

main()

----------- result of $python test.py --------------------------

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 1, in ?
    from graphics import *
  File "/home/slimick/cs198/graphics.py", line 85, in ?
    import Tkinter
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
  ImportError: No module named _tkinter

------------result of $locate _tkinter ------------------------------

/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp
/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp.exp
/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Modules/_dummy_tkinter.c
/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Modules/_tkinter.c
/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PC/os2vacpp/_tkinter.def
/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PCbuild/_tkinter.dsp

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I would appreciate any help on this.

And, thanks in advance

john slimick
slimick at pitt,edu
university of pittsburgh at bradford


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 03:45:13 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 00:45:13 -0800
Subject: attachment
References: <f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403060045.7ae84d33@posting.google.com>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi
> I am trying to upload a file using <input type="file"....>
> I want to know what is the best way to store this uploaded file 
> Should I store it in the databse??
> Or should I store the entire file on the server??

If I decide to store the file on the server,then di I have to use ftp
to copy the file on the server??


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 20 02:00:57 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:00:57 -0800
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
In-Reply-To: <c9d82136.0403191740.3429d418@posting.google.com>
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<c9d82136.0403191740.3429d418@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3gqd0$emp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I have not tried CPython or Twisted.

FYI: CPython is the C-based implementation of the interpreter.

Unless you've been running Jython, PyPi, or some other 3rd party 
developed Python interpreter, you're running CPython.

  - Josiah


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Mar 17 06:31:52 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:31:52 +0100
Subject: destructuring tuple and list
References: <8dad5312.0403162334.435de9c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c39cui$nqm$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Sebastien de Menten wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a reason to not extend the tuple destructuration in functions
> to any expression ?
> For instance, we can:
> def f(x, y, *tail):
> return tail + (x,y)
> f(3,4,5,6) -> (5,6,3,4)
> or
> f(*(3,4,5,6)) -> idem
> 
> But I can't do:
> (x,y, *tail) = (3,4,5,6)
> and get
> x=3
> y=4
> tail = (5,6)
> Same question for lists...


I've also thought about that. s/t like real pattern matching might be cool,
but is probably too much of a paradigm shift.   

What I do is this:

l = (5,6,3,4)
x,y,tail = l[0:2], l[:2]

IMHO not too ugly....
        
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 16 08:57:08 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:57:08 -0600
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20040316135706.GE2446@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 06:19:00PM -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Translating the replacements pairs into a dictionary would result in a 
> significant speedup for large numbers of replacements.
> 
> mapping = dict(replacement_pairs)
> 
> def multi_replace(inp, mapping=mapping):
>     return u''.join([mapping.get(i, i) for i in inp])
> 
> One pass through the file gives an O(len(inp)) algorithm, much better 
> (running-time wise) than the string.replace method that runs in 
> O(len(inp) * len(replacement_pairs)) time as given.

Thanks for posting this.  My other code was pretty hopeless, but for
some reason .get(i, i) didn't come to mind as a solution.

Jeff



From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Mar  3 07:59:53 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:59:53 GMT
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
	<oueksar0tu.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
	<slrnc4bgub.4aj.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<ou7jy2qghn.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4blm9.513.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <ou7jy2qghn.fsf at andlx-anamika.cisco.com>, Ganesan R wrote:

> I was referring to python2.3-pgsql which is the same as pyPgSQL.

Oh, those wacky Debian kids and their renamings.  I assumed pgsql was the
"standard" module that ships with postgres.

pyPgSQL seems to handle booleans quite transparently.

Dave Cook


From Henrik.Weber at sdm.de  Thu Mar 11 08:26:48 2004
From: Henrik.Weber at sdm.de (Henrik Weber)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 05:26:48 -0800
Subject: Using Pythonwin to poke at Windows apps?
References: <44254d3d.0403090600.3b14d84c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.177.1078844655.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <44254d3d.0403110526.68157d29@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.177.1078844655.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> Henrik.Weber at sdm.de (Henrik Weber) writes:
> 
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I'm trying to read information about widgets from running instances of
> > win32 applications. My current victim is the Explorer on a XP box. I'm
> > trying to access the menu bar. On XP this is not a standard menu but a
> > toolbar. So far I can retrieve a PyCWnd object with win32ui:
> >
> >>>> e = win32ui.FindWindow("ExploreWClass", None)
> >>>> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(e, None, "WorkerW", None)
> >>>> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ReBarWindow32", None)
> >>>> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
> >>>> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, t, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
> >>>> hex(t.GetSafeHwnd())
>  '0x602d8'
> >>>> print t
> > object 'PyCWnd' - assoc is 01275A88, vi=<None>, notify=0,ch/u=0/0,
> > mh=0, kh=0
> >
> > I know that t now refers to a ToolbarWindow32 widget but seemingly
> > win32ui doesn't. Is there a way to get a PyCToolbar object from this?
> 
> No idea.

I had hoped that there might be a way to cast or convert a PyCWnd
object to an object of a child class or to construct a PyCToolbar
object from an hwnd, something like that.

> 
> > Or do I have to continue by sending messages? I tried sending a
> > TB_GETBUTTON message with win32gui.SendMessage, using a Python array
> > to reserve some memory for the TBBUTTON structure, but so far I have
> > only succeeded in crashing the Explorer. What would be the right way
> > to send a message that needs some memory to put the results into?
> 
> If you go this way, ctypes is what you need.  And Simon Bruning has
> written a series of articles which also might be helpful:
> 
> http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000652.html

Yes, I've read those articles. He does something similar to what I
want where he retrieves the content from an edit widget. My attempt
that I described above was inspired by this.

Now I've tried this with ctypes:

from ctypes import *
import win32ui, win32con

e = win32ui.FindWindow("ExploreWClass", None)
w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(e, None, "WorkerW", None)
w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ReBarWindow32", None)
t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, t, "ToolbarWindow32", None)

class TBBUTTON(Structure):
    _fields_ = (("iBitmap", c_int),
                ("idCommand", c_int),
                ("fsState", c_byte),
                ("fsStyle", c_byte),
                ("bReserved", c_byte * 2),
                ("dwData", POINTER(c_long)),
                ("iString", c_char_p))

b = TBBUTTON()
f = windll.user32.SendMessageA
TB_GETBUTTON = win32con.WM_USER + 23
print f(t.GetSafeHwnd(), TB_GETBUTTON, 0, byref(b))


When I run it the first time I get a return value 1. However the
TBBUTTON structure contains mostly zeroes. Running it again crashes
the Explorer. Even if I open another Explorer the script will crash it
with every subsequent execution until the machine is rebooted.

So obviously I'm doing something wrong, but what?


Henrik


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar  3 14:55:15 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:55:15 -0000
Subject: Python and Multi-Physics
References: <mailman.18.1078326737.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104ce13eo7sn00f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.18.1078326737.727.python-list at python.org>,
Satish Chimakurthi <skchim0 at engr.uky.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>emphasize the spirit of using python in scientific research. I know of
>few companies like CFDRC and laboratories like LLNL who use python
>extensively for the kind of research I am talking about(from web). Is
>there any other individual or company devoted to such research ? Please
			.
			.
			.
There are lots.  LOTS.  Enough that it'd be a full-time job
cataloguing them.  While I launched <URL:
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.programming/open_source_science.html >
with the idea of (among other things) indexing such initiatives,
I've long since abandoned the fantasy of keeping up.

Look through the Proceedings of the Annual Python Conferences.
I think you'll find those useful.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 12:24:07 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:24:07 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <405b0049.148328857@news.eircom.net>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
	<4059deac.74176280@news.eircom.net>
	<105jorolc069r50@news.supernews.com>
	<405b0049.148328857@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <c3fahd$opg$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Well, two points. First, why does it have to be a "fancy"
>>tool? The only editors I use basically have syntax highlighting
>>and code folding (at least, I think that's what it's called.)
>>There are a lot of other features I'd like to have, but I'm not
>>about to spend time with a learning curve that needs a full
>>mountaineering outfit to scale.
> 
> Well then we're agreed, neither of us uses fancy tools :) (Don't know
> what code folding is, but I also like syntax highlighting.)

http://scintilla.sourceforge.net/SciTEImage.html
The above link will show you what code folding looks like.  Look at the 
function definitions.

  - Josiah


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 02:58:46 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:58:46 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <9C8ac.68303$cx5.4075@fed1read04>
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>	<lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>	<du73c7r7tub.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>	<Ut1ac.64446$cx5.43515@fed1read04>	<4068D66A.7060800@sneakemail.com>
	<9C8ac.68303$cx5.4075@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <406928B6.7000102@mlug.missouri.edu>


>>but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.
>>    
>>
>
>Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.
>
That'd seem agreeable to me. Especially if how strict the rule was could 
be set at run time as a Python argument. So you could either have mixed 
spaces and tabs refuse to run, give an error, or be ignored and run (if 
possible) as we might currently expect.



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  1 07:20:14 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:20:14 GMT
Subject: Limitations of 30 Day Eval?
References: <LUq0c.1368$i_2.9683@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<rVq0c.1369$i_2.9706@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<c1tkc5$f3n$4@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <m3znb069oh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

> Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> pisze:
> 
> > Dumbass...sorry - wrong newsgroup.  Damn this new newsreader!
> 
> Use slrn. With ^C you could cancel this message.

Well, you could /try/... cancel propagation not being one of the more
reliable things in the univers.

Cheers,
mhw

-- 
  SCSI is not magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why it
  is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and
  then.                                                  -- John Woods


From virusalert at ouhk.edu.hk  Tue Mar 23 03:48:20 2004
From: virusalert at ouhk.edu.hk (virusalert at ouhk.edu.hk)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:48:20 +0800
Subject: ***Symantec Anti-Virus detected a repairable/quarantined virus in a
	message you sent
Message-ID: <013301c410b3$98091920$251ea8c0@staffdmn.ouhk.edu.hk>

***This message was generated by Symantec Anti-Virus***

Subject of the message: Re: Re: Re: Your document
Attachment (if any) : document_4351.pif









<<Email Disclaimer>>
This e-mail and its attachments, if any, are confidential and contain information for an intended recipient. The Open University of Hong Kong (OUHK) disclaims any liability for any loss or damage if this e-mail is received by any person who is not the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, retain, disclose, copy, print, forward or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us by e-mail immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments immediately.

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From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 14:53:35 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:53:35 -0800
Subject: loop scope
In-Reply-To: <donn-52196E.10264115032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<uteb50lm5t0l2mf2f3lklmr3ruusj3mfjv@4ax.com>
	<j4qb505fhlukq14p92ae961bfuhsurfo08@4ax.com>
	<donn-52196E.10264115032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <c351pi$79l$1@news.service.uci.edu>


>    t = f(a/c)
>    ... # and then later,
>    sl = [t * t for t in range(3)]
> 
> In this case, I would argue that it's an error for t to escape
> the expression scope _because_ it's used outside that scope -
> actually I think that was where we came in.  My personal view
> is that a list comprehension should have its own internal scope,
> period, but is that what `intuition' would lead most Python
> programmers to expect?  I don't know.

 From what I understand, the above case is taken care of in Python 2.4

In the case of:

t = f(a/c)
... # and then later,
s1 = []
for t in range(3):
     s1.append(t * t)

The behavior is unchanged in 2.4, t gets rebound.

  - Josiah


From sigurd at 12move.de  Wed Mar  3 14:53:50 2004
From: sigurd at 12move.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?Karl_Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:53:50 +0100
Subject: Efficiently test for positive re.match then use the result?
References: <20040303102526934-0800@news.qwest.net>
Message-ID: <m3fzcp3fdr.fsf@hamster.pflaesterer.de>

On  3 Mar 2004, elmlish <- elmlish at netscape.net wrote:

> Mostly what I've seen people do is to first test for the match, and then 
> try matching again to get the results.  This would seem to be pretty 
> inefficient to me.

Where did you see that?  Often you see code like:

m = re.match('foo', 'foobar')
if m: do_something with m

> I've tried making the match, then sending it to a variable, then testing 
> if the variable is good and then finally using it, but this still seems 
> overkill.

It isn't; you can't have directly an return value from assignment in
Python like e.g in C, so you can't write code like:

if m = re.match('foo', 'foobar'): do_somethiing_with_m

Global vars are also normally not set from re-matching (you could write
your own matching function which sets a global var; but that's seldom a
good idea ).

> I'm also trying to use this in list comprehensions, mostly because they 
> are kind of fun.  What I've got right now looks something like this.


>>>> alist = ['boo','hoo','choo']
>>>> [re.match('choo',line) for line in calist if re.match('choo',line)]
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x11e218>]

> This is a small test, but what I will be looking for various matches in 
> is a large special purpose text file.

> Does anyone have input on how something like this _should_ be done?
> thanks,

I don't know how it _should_ be done but I can tell you how it _could_ be
done.

Use a class like the following:

class Matcher (object):
    __slots__  = ('reg', 'match')

    def __init__ (self, reg):
        self.reg = reg
        self.match = None

    def __call__ (self, val):
        self.match = self.reg(val)
        if self.match:
            return True

Now you could use it like:

>>> alist = ['boo','hoo','choo']
>>> reg = Matcher(re.compile('choo').match)
>>> [reg.match for c in alist if reg(c)]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb3de58>]
>>> 

That's no overkill.

But if you wanted it even lighter you could use a closure (but don't
tell anyone :-) )

def matcher (reg):
    res = [None]
    def fun (s):
        m = reg(s)
        if m: res[0] = m
        return m
    return res, fun

You use it like that:

>>> res, reg = matcher(re.compile('choo').match)
>>> [res[0] for c in alist if reg(c)]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xa14e90>]
>>> 


Or you simply write:

>>> reg = re.compile('choo').match
>>> filter(None, [reg(line) for line in alist])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb3df38>]


Even for a big list filter(None, ...) is fast.




   KP

-- 
You know you've been sitting in front of your Lisp machine too long
when you go out to the junk food machine and start wondering how to
make it give you the CADR of Item H so you can get that yummie
chocolate cupcake that's stuck behind the disgusting vanilla one.


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Thu Mar 18 09:50:14 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:50:14 +0100
Subject: cgi lib question
Message-ID: <4059B726.70801@geochemsource.com>


  Hi All!

I'm using IIS with Python (as an ActiveScript language). I would like to 
upload files with multipart/form-data.
Here is my code:

length = Request.TotalBytes
data = Request.BinaryRead(length)
f = cStringIO.StringIO(data[0])
values = cgi.parse_multipart(f,header)


And the HTML code:

    <form name="frmSend" method="POST" enctype="multipart/form-data" 
action="upload_test.asp"">
    File 1: <input name=attach1 type=file size=35><br>
    File 2: <input name=attach2 type=file size=35><br>
    File 3: <input name=attach3 type=file size=35><br>
    File 4: <input name=attach4 type=file size=35><br>
    <br>
    <input style="margin-top:4" type=submit value="Upload">
    </form>

It works well when I upload text files (Content type:text/plain). 
However, it raises an exception when I try to upload a binary file 
(octet-stream).
Here is the message:

Python ActiveX Scripting Engine (0x80020009)
Traceback (most recent call last): File "<Script Block >", line 26, in ? 
values = cgi.parse_multipart(f,header) File "D:\Python23\lib\cgi.py", 
line 250, in parse_multipart raise ValueError, ('Invalid boundary in 
multipart form: %s' ValueError: Invalid boundary in multipart form: ''

Is it a bug in the cgi module? What did I wrong? Thanks.

   G




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 11:52:13 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:52:13 +0100
Subject: python classes
References: <f2335$40475626$42a655ea$12158@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
Message-ID: <c27mrt$kge$03$1@news.t-online.com>

William D. Gill wrote:

> I'm new to python and am probably trying too many new things at once, but
> here goes.

Welcome!

> I am working with a (MySQL) database and am trying to make a html /python
> interface for editing records.
> Data is broken up into several tables, and related by customer number. 
> For example one table contains basic information about the customer, one
> table phone numbers (one record for published number, one for cell phone,
> etc, all customers will have at least one record here).
> 
> I want to use python classes in my code so I have a couple of  questions
> about python classes:
> 
> 1) can a class __init__ have multiple "signatures like in C++  i.e.
> MyClass( int, string), . MyClass(int) ?

No, but you can provide defaults:

>>> class MyClass:
...     def __init__(self, mandatory, value=99, name="unknown"): pass
...
>>> MyClass(1)
<__main__.MyClass instance at 0x40290aec>
>>> MyClass(1,2)
<__main__.MyClass instance at 0x40290a6c>
>>> MyClass(1, name="whoever")
<__main__.MyClass instance at 0x40290a4c>

and so on ad infinitum.

> 2) can a class attribute be an instance of another class ...

Yes, it can.

> or is multiple inheritance the proper answer?

If the _question_ is 42?, then I would say so :-)

> 3) Can I make instantiation fail if an invalid customer number is use, and
> wrap the "a=MyClass(cusid=999) in an exception?

You _should_ raise a custom exception (just derive from Exception) which can
be loaded with arbitrary information - in your example that would rather be
the bad customer id than the inconsistant MyClass instance.


Peter


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Mar 26 06:42:39 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:42:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ftp mget
References: <Xns94B7A13148CE8acuencacanadacom@198.161.157.145>
Message-ID: <c414vf$pon$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

allanc <allan_NOSPAMcuenca at nospamyahoo.com> writes:

>Anybody know if there's an ftp client in python that can do an mget?

>My current implementation of an mget uses ftpconnection.nlst() to retrieve 
>the list of filenames. Then iterates through this list with
>retrlines('RETR ' + fname,callback).

>I'd like to eliminate a LIST command on the ftp server altogether.

A quick scan of the FTP RFC at:

  http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc959/Overview.html

(specifically "file transfer functions") suggests that there is no command to
get multiple files by globbing and that you have to do it this way.

Eddie


From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 16:32:45 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:32:45 GMT
Subject: MVC-type Framework in Python
References: <mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1as1c.46406$Kc3.1440309@twister2.libero.it>

Take a look at

http://sra.itc.it/people/cavada/mvc/index.html

bye

-- 
Don't you know why your Python application has crashed?
Take a look to http://www.pycrash.org
My Home Page http://cnoviello.altervista.org




From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Mon Mar  1 10:53:06 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:53:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Reading text lines from a socket
References: <sqj7h1-efj.ln1@pluto.home> <40412589.40704@venix.com>
	<mailman.255.1078015277.8594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c1vm92$4f9$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Sandip Bhattacharya <sandip at linux-delhi.org> writes:


>However, I was looking for a python equivalent of the perl idiom of 
>opening a socket and getting a file handle ... and then reading this 
>file handle as any other line oriented file using $socket->readline

socket.makefile() does that.

Eddie


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 22:59:15 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:15 -0600
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <16466.34579.477991.591571@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Bart> What do you guys think of something like this... 

    Bart> def stupid():
    ...

    Bart> How else could I twist this up?

Someone posted a Python obfuscation script to this list in the last week.  I
think it was called "pyobfuscate" or something similar.  I'd check that out
if you're worried.

Skip



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Mar 23 11:38:33 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:38:33 -0500
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <mailman.279.1080051991.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7rZ7c.11361$A_2.694679@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <aJZ7c.11374$A_2.697834@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:7rZ7c.11361$A_2.694679 at news20.bellglobal.com...

>
> Or, perhaps ":=" :
>
> d := 1
> e := 9
> def f():
>     a, b := None, 3
>     b = 4 # rebind
>     d = 5 # raise error, should be "d := 5"
>    def g():
>        e = 10  # global assignment
>        b = 5  # rebind b in f
>        a := 7  # new local binding
>     print a, b, e  # will print None 5 10
>
>

Also

variable := init_value
varaible = update_value  # raise error, "name 'varaible' undeclared"




From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar  6 14:01:16 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:01:16 -0700
Subject: Need better string methods
Message-ID: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>

I'm considering Python as a replacement for the highly specialized
scripting languages used in the electronics design industry.  Design
engineers are typically not programmers, and they avoid working with
these complex proprietary languages, preferring instead to use GUI
tools that are poorly implemented and very limited in the problems
they can solve.

I am convinced that Python can do anything that can be done by these
CPL's, but I know it will be an uphill battle getting design engineers
to learn yet another scripting language. The pitch will be 1) What you
need to solve most of your design problems can be learned in two days.
Then you can decide if you want to learn the full language. 2) Learn
this one and you will have a language applicable to not just
controlling one company's EDA tools, but almost any scripting or
computational problem you may encounter.  3) Python may well be the
ultimate computer language for non-programmer technical professionals.
You won't have to learn another in the future.

The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits and
pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen CPL.
String processing, for example, is one area where we may face some
difficulty.  Here is a typical line of garbage from a statefile
revision control system (simplified to eliminate some items that pose
no new challenges):

line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"

The problem is to break this into its component parts, and eliminate
spaces and other gradoo.  The cleaned-up list should look like:

['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']

# Ruby:
# clean = line.chomp.strip('.').squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)

This is pretty straight-forward once you know what each of the methods
do.

# Current best Python:
clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

This is too much to expect of a non-programmer, even one who
undestands the methods.  The usability problems are 1) the three
variations in syntax ( methods, a list comprehension, and what *looks
like* a join function prefixed by some odd punctuation), and 2) The
order in which each step is entered at the keyboard.  ( I can show
this in step-by-step detail if anyone doesn't understand what I mean.)
3) Proper placement of parens can be confusing.

What we need is a syntax that flows in the same order you have to
think about the problem, stopping at each step to visualize an
intermendiate result, then typing the next operation, not mousing back
to insert a function or the start of a comprehension, and not screwing
up the parentheses. ( My inititial version had the closing paren of
the join method *after* the following strip, which lucky-for-me popped
an attribute error ... not-so-lucky could work OK on this example, but
mess up in subtle ways on future data. )

# Subclassing a list:
clean = [MyList(t.split()).join().strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

The MyList.join method works as expected.  I havent' figured out yet
how to add a map method to MyList, but already I can guess this is not
leading to a clean syntax.  Having to insert 'MyList' everywhere is as
bad as the original syntax.  Maybe someone can help me with the
Python.  I would love it if there was a simple solution not requiring
changes to Python.

# Possible future Python:
# clean = line.split('|').map().split().join().strip('.')

The map method takes a list in the "front door" and feeds items from
the list one-at-a-time to the method waiting at its "back door".  The
join method expects a list of strings at its front door and delivers a
single string at its back door.  If something other than a space is
needed to join the strings, that can be provided via the (side-door)
of the join method.

-- Dave



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Wed Mar 17 10:37:27 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:37:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <14e1fc9169eb2206e8136939f484a406@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <20040317153727.66618.qmail@web8301.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Dang Griffith <google0 at lazytwinacres.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:28:15 +0000 (GMT), Premshree
> Pillai
> <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> 
> > --- Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote: > In
> article
> >>
>
><mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list at python.org>,
> >> Premshree Pillai wrote:
> >> > Err...you probably have the wrong idea of
> static
> >> > typing, I think. Static typing has to do with
> >> explicit
> >> > declaration (initialization) of variables (and
> not
> >> of
> >> > variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python
> too
> >> is
> >> 
> >> Is that an official definition from somewhere? 
> >> Cause I always thought
> >> static typing was about variable types.
> >> 
> >> Joe
> >> -- 
> >>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> >Hmm...I might have been a little wrong there.
> However,
> >what I wanted to stress was that it's the explicit
> >declaration of the variable that matters (that
> makes
> >static typing what it is).
> 
> Static typing does not have to do with explicit
> declaration.
> As you said earlier, Perl has an option to force
> explicit
> declaration, and yet Perl is not statically typed. 
> Python function
> arguments are explicitly declared, but are
> dynamically typed.

Perl as it is is dynamically typed; the pragma used to
enforce variable declaration is only an *option* and
thus does not decide whether Perl is statically typed
or dynamically typed. Your comment suggests that you
are trying to justify that "Perl can enforce variable
declaration, but still it is dynamically typed", which
is incorrect to suggest.

Oh, and thanks, you have been helpful!

> 
> It seems you want the compiler to complain when a
> previously unused/unnamed/undeclared variable is 
> used on the left side of an equation.  (It already
> complains
> for vars on the right side and in expressions.)
> 
> I think there is value in detecting such problems,
> but I 
> think there is enough evidence in existing Python
> code
> that there is little value to having it *in the
> language 
> itself*.  As other posters have pointed out, there
> are
> other ways of detecting these problems, such as with
> pychecker and PyRex.
> 
> I'm bowing out of this discussion.  I hope I have
> been
> somewhat helpful.  The strong/weak/static/dynamic
> discussion has gone on many times before, and I
> don't
> see it as being particularly relevant to explicit
> declaration.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure you have the answer to your
> question.
> Python does not force, or even support, variable
> declaration.
> If you want that, you'll need to look to one of the
> other
> tools mentioned.
> 
> Best wishes in your endeavors,
>     O-O
>         --Daniel 'dang' Griffith
> p.s.
> (Yes, I know Python supports variable/keyword
> arguments 
> to functions, which don't require explicit
> declaration...)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Tue Mar 23 09:06:57 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:06:57 +0100
Subject: question on charset conversion
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0403231431430.53036@erinys01.fi.muni.cz>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0403231431430.53036@erinys01.fi.muni.cz>
Message-ID: <c3pg7l$adg$1@swifty.westend.com>

Lukas Holcik wrote:
> Would you mind answering a question to a Python newbie?:) Here it is: I
> have to download a page with windows-1250 and parse it and convert it to
> iso-8859-2. It there some easy way to acomplish this task using the
> standard distribution built-in modules? Or do I have to get some extra?

iso8859_2_string = unicode(cp1250_string, 'cp1250').encode('iso-8859-2')

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From no at spam.com  Wed Mar 31 05:30:23 2004
From: no at spam.com (Didier Morandi)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:30:23 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
In-Reply-To: <406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Max M wrote:

>> Peter Hickman wrote:
>>
>>> People who whine on about 'top posting' are the sort of people who 
>>> draft 'clean desk' policies. If you want to whine about top posting 
>>> then start alt.whine.top.posting and have fun.
> 
> That is not quite right. Using top posting forces every reader to 
> unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in content.

(ages since I jumped into a troll... :-)

What against-top-posting people do not WANT to understand is that the very first 
interest of posting is, to me, to get help or information.

So, you post your question and, by definition, you remember what it was (well, I 
hope so).

Then, you go back to the ng the day after and if you got an answer, you are 
interested in the answer, not to reread your post.

I do not read answers to questions I did not post, so I don't care about 
"unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in content".

Period.

But as I try to be a gentleman, I did not top-post my post :-)

D.
Toulouse
Auto elected President of the Top Posting Liberation Army



From paul at boddie.net  Thu Mar 25 03:56:13 2004
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 00:56:13 -0800
Subject: SMS with python
References: <mailman.311.1080093619.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0403250056.1edb71e@posting.google.com>

"Michael G. A. Sung" <aisung at bubblemotions.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.311.1080093619.742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Anyone know how I can sent SMS with python script from desktop with a 
> GSM phone attached let say a SE P900?

Having recently got into modern mobile telephony myself (SE T610),
it's tempting to look into something like this:

http://nelson.monkey.org/~nelson/weblog/tech/phone/pythonT616.html

So far, with respect to Linux and mobile 'phones, at least, I've had
most success with the OpenOBEX application ircp. Meanwhile, obexftp
just acts in a highly cryptic fashion, whilst gnokii seems to talk to
the 'phone but doesn't understand how to get what it's looking for.
It's tempting to look into a Python wrapper for OpenOBEX, but the most
recent attempt at this seems to be somewhat dated:

http://www.ravioli.pasta.cs.uit.no/open-obex/

Paul


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 06:44:39 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 12:44:39 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfhdwe4ggo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Trzmiel <sc0rp at hot.pl> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > ... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is static
> > typing ...
> 
> Care to provide some examples to back this opinion up?

Sure, however, thinking up an example which is short enough to be
clear, yet substantial enough to be of any use would take more time
and thought than I can invest right now. I'll certainly try to post
something later.

However, I hope that it is self-evident that development of unit tests
hugely benefits from the ability to run incomplete programs ... while
static typing tries hard to prevent you from running incomplete
programs.


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 25 19:19:07 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:19:07 -0700
Subject: Variable scope in classes
References: <P6OdnbAHb-yjyv7dRVn-uA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1gt660trjkq1mnlr1he3rju3qalksso9mu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:03:49 -0600, "Larry Bates"
<lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:

>I'm confused about variable scope in a class
>that is derived from a base class framework.
>
>Can someone enlighten me on why bar.__init__
>method can't see self.__something variable
>in the foo.__init__?
>
>Example:
>
>
>class foo:
>    def __init__(self):
>        print self.__something
>
>
>class bar(foo):
>    __something="This is a test"
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        foo.__init__(self)
>
>
>x=bar()
>
>returns the following traceback:

So why did you put __ in front of 'something' if you were not
intending this to be a "private" variable?

>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File
>"C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
>line 301, in RunScript
>    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
>  File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 13, in ?
>    x=bar()
>  File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 10, in __init__
>    foo.__init__()
>  File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 3, in __init__
>    print self.__something
>AttributeError: bar instance has no attribute '_foo__something'

Python makes the the variable "private" by prepending _foo to whatever
you name with two leading underscores.

-- Dave

>Is there some "other" way to do this without passing information
>through foo.__init__ argument list?
>
>Regards,
>Larry Bates
>Syscon
>



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar 16 05:09:49 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:09:49 -0500
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
In-Reply-To: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4056D26D.4050903@rogers.com>

Rick Muller wrote:
...

>3. Tkinter/PyOpenGL/Togl
>   Advantages: Least amount of modules to install.
>
>   Disadvantages: Tk is ugly. Tk is old. Tk doesn't look good on
>   Macintosh/Aqua. Togl is either dead or dying?
>  
>
Togl is pretty much history.  I'll likely fix the installer one last 
time for the next bug-fix release (2.0.2) and then drop the thing.  I've 
been looking for someone who uses Tkinter+Togl to champion maintenance 
of the thing for years and never found anyone interested enough to 
bother.  I'm not a huge fan of Tkinter either, for that matter.

>4. wxPython/PyOpenGL
>   Advantages: Seems to be a healthy, integrated solution to putting
>   an OpenGL window inside of a widget. Pretty widgets, and lots of
>   fancy features.
>
>   Disadvantages: The OpenGL install still crashed under Windows. A
>   widget set that not many people use? Also requires the most amount
>   of code rewrite, although if it's the best option it isn't a
>   problem. 
>  
>
I'm surprised.  I install and run wxPython + PyOpenGL all the time on 
Windows (which is my primary dev environment for PyOpenGL).  wxPython 
has a full OpenGLContext Context, so at the very least the wxPython 
widget is getting a lot of exercising.  It's also the framework I'm 
using to rough out an interactive graphics system similar to that seen 
in VPython (though using wxPython and the OpenGLContext scenegraph 
engine (see the browser sub-project)).  That's basically a VR world 
showing on one side of a splitter opposite a wxPython-based Python shell.

If you're seeing crashes under this combination, please file bug reports 
on the project page.  I'd expect to see crashes in bad combinations of 
PyOpenGL and Numarray/Numpy (the binary 2.0.1.07 requires Numarray, all 
earlier binaries require Numpy)...

BTW, someone else suggested using VPython.  It's basically it's own 3D 
scenegraph-level API with a very simple interface.  Not a lot of 
mechanisms exposed, but it might have enough to get your job done.  I 
believe it only runs under Tkinter.

>5. Other ideas:
>   It is a sign of my own desperation that I'm even considering things
>   like writing a canvas widget that can draw balls and sticks, and
>   then just doing the matrix algebra in NumPy, rather than using
>   OpenGL. 
>  
>
For balls and sticks this is a pretty trivial task.  4th year comp-sci 
students are made to do this (well, a lot more) for creating ray-trace 
renderers in their computer graphics courses.  However, being able to 
load everything into the hardware buffers of a video card is pretty hard 
to beat as a performance path.

>Thanks in advance for any help or sympathy that people can offer.
>  
>
Hmm, sympathy?  You get to work on graphics and you want sympathy?  Some 
of us would *kill* to have the time to work on graphics ;) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From christian at mvonessen.de  Mon Mar 29 14:53:39 2004
From: christian at mvonessen.de (Christian von Essen)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:53:39 +0200
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
In-Reply-To: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de>
References: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <c49us3$caa$1@online.de>

Torsten Mohr wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i'd like to use 64 Bit Integer values in Python,
> can anybody give me a hint on what are the limits
> in Python?
> 
> Can i use signed and unsigned 64 Bit Integers?
> 
> 
> Thanks for hints,
> Torsten.
> 

Hi,

I havn't tried it myself, since i don't own a 64-Bit processor, but
http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=87elfl3yvu.fsf%40mathdogs.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2B64%2Bbit%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D87elfl3yvu.fsf%2540mathdogs.com%26rnum%3D1
and
http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=20000509113948.A21443%40activestate.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2B64%2Bbit%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D20000509113948.A21443%2540activestate.com%26rnum%3D2
say, that you can use 64 bit integers in CPython, if your C compiller 
supports 64 bit integer. May also depend on your OS.

But you have to read some groups in http://groups.google.com
Just search for 'Python 64 bit'. This will give you a lot of results, I 
guess.


I think many people here can give you further information

Christian von Essen


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Wed Mar  3 15:11:12 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:11:12 +0100
Subject: Ast tree and python code
Message-ID: <c25e3r$2052$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

Does someone know how I can reverse an AST tree back into python code 
with few modification ?
What I want to do is to complete trees before writing them back but in a 
way not to far from the original code ? Especially, indentation, line 
return, etc.

Of course, I could program it myself but if someone already done it...

Yermat



From avikghose at yahoo.co.in  Tue Mar 30 11:44:01 2004
From: avikghose at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Avik=20Ghose?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:44:01 +0100 (BST)
Subject: using third party TCL library
Message-ID: <20040330164401.60455.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hi All,
I am calling some TCl scripts from python using the
following syntax:

import Tkinter;
Tkinter.Tk().tk.eval(myTcl);

Now I need to use a 3rd party TCL library for my
script. Its like :
package require TclLib

When I run this python file I get an error saying:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File  line 301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\aghose\Test3.py", line 3, in ?
    Tkinter.Tk().tk.eval(myTcl);
TclError: can't find package TclLib

Now that is obvious since the python interpreter is
invocing a TCL shell which does not know where my
package is.
My question is where can I put this file so that the
TCL invoced from the python shell gets it.
Thanks in advance,




=====
Thanks and regards,
Avik Ghose

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From eric.espino at cemex.com.pa  Sat Mar 13 18:23:23 2004
From: eric.espino at cemex.com.pa (ERIC ESPINO)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:23:23 -0500
Subject: Virus Found in message ":-)"
Message-ID: <OF1DC0FC01.F761A21F-ON05256E56.00807CAF@LocalDomain>

Symantec AntiVirus found a virus in an attachment you
(python-list at python.org) sent to eric.espino at cemex.com.pa.



To ensure the recipient(s) are able to use the files you sent, perform a
virus scan on your computer, clean any infected files, then resend this
attachment.




Attachment:  AttachedDocument.zip

Virus name: W32.Beagle at mm!zip

Action taken:  Delete succeeded :

File status:  Deleted









From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 31 04:20:26 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:20:26 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <UKfac.55410$au1.3237957@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<UKfac.55410$au1.3237957@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <c4e2e1$22u$1@swifty.westend.com>

Roel Schroeven wrote:
> Whenever I make even the smallest wxPython program, it takes multiple 
> seconds before the window is visible. Last time I tried was on a Pentium 
> 4-M 2.2 GHz with 512 MB of RAM. Not a slow machine, and other software 
> runs just fine.
> 
> It's really annoying, and nothing I do seems to improve the situation.

Did you try a preload? You can start an invisible task that keeps
the wxpython stuff in memory. You could even start this task as a
Win32 service so that it is loaded prior to any login.

BTW, the load time is not only due to GUI libs. Python itself does
also have a share. Just tried that with a command line script and
my rough estimate is that approx. 50% of the wxpython load delay
is due to Python itself (at least on my machine: Win 2000, 800MHz,
256 MByte).

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Sun Mar 14 12:05:10 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:05:10 +0800
Subject: A GOTO example
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c2ss14$dp0$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc53sud.v6f.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c315h4$ij1$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7i8yi3gy0p.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Josiah" == Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

    Josiah> I did slip, but it is still fairly easy to do

This "fairly easy" ignores the possibility that later you need to add or
modify the line that must be executed before the function returns.  Macro
might be a solution, although I consider the goto solution cleaner (doesn't
need a separate language (and thus different indentation rules), won't
pollute the namespace, ease the compiler to reduce compiled code size, etc).

Regards,
Isaac.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 13:19:43 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 10:19:43 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c29981$4eu$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <14b36d18.0403051019.5d3d4d63@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c29981$4eu$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > PyXML would be a perfect solution - and easy too.
> 
> Even easier would be to use an SGML parser:
> http://flangy.com/dev/python/striphtml.html
> 
> Works for XML, HTML, etc.
> 
>   - Josiah

This is absolutely cool.  Nice and neat and beautiful.  Thank you very
much for that cool link, Josiah.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 08:21:14 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:21:14 -0500
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>

Jon Perez wrote:

> Can one run a 1.5 .pyc file with the 2.x version
> interpreters and vice versa?
> 
> How about running a 2.x .pyc using a 2.y interpreter?

What is the specific need you have?  There may be ways around
your problem.

-Peter


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar  8 08:52:04 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:52:04 +0200
Subject: Calling a constructor in a default argument.
In-Reply-To: <20040308144203.40f85891@pistache.sara.nl>
References: <20040308144203.40f85891@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <404C7A84.5010906@zoran.com>

Hello Bram,

> I wrote a function that takes a default argument.
> The default arg is set to a constructor call.
> 
> I expected this constructor to be called every time I call the func
> without the arg.
> 
> However, it turns out that the constructor is called only once.
> Is this the desired behaviour, or a known bug?
This is a strong runner for #1 question in comp.lang.python
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared-between-objects

HTH.
Miki


From kkrueger at example.edu  Fri Mar 26 14:39:24 2004
From: kkrueger at example.edu (Karl A. Krueger)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:39:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c420ta$ma1$1@baldur.whoi.edu>

begin  John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com>  quote:
> Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
> tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
> a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
> Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
> lines, thus destroying the indentation.

Lumberjack with dull saw should not blame tree.

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger at example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 09:41:39 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:41:39 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5pm19.nj8.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc5pm19.nj8.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c3k97s$292on1$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Joe Mason wrote:

>>Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
>>apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
>>to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
>>files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
>>JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.
> 
> Spoken like a man who hasn't used much Java.
> 
> Joe

If you're speaking from experience, then I'd be interested to
hear exactly what it is you've encountered that leads you to
this view of Java.  My experience so far has been contrary to
that.

Automatically assuming that the reason others don't happen to
share your view is due to their lack of experience, just shows
that you are full of conceit.


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Mar 11 16:10:17 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:10:17 +0100
Subject: backquote
In-Reply-To: <OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20040311211017.GB6377@nl.linux.org>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >     Olaf> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?
> >     Olaf> Trying to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.
> >
> > `object` is equivalent to repr(object).
> >
> > Skip
> >
> Is this syntax one of those vestigial short-cuts that is on somebody's hit
> list for future deprecation?  To my eyes, `object` is more arcane than
> repr(object) - why else would we be having this thread in the first place?

Indeed. Recently (current CVS) a patch was applied removing almost all
occurences of backquotes in the standard library, and they will be
removed in Python 3.0. I believe Guido regrets them.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 11/03 20:25 UTC:
	2.0?C   wind 2.7 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar  8 17:24:19 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:24:19 -0500
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <4048925C.1030505@cfl.rr.com>
References: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net> <4048925C.1030505@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <404CF293.4090804@cfl.rr.com>

after being pointed in the right direction by the other posts this is 
the answer that i have.

print 'Content-type: application/force-download; '
print 'Content-disposition: attachment; filename="fname.ext"'

will work on mozilla and the xp version of IE. i havent checked lower 
versions yet.

to test simply do this:
#!/usr/bin/env python
print 'Content-type: application/force-download; '
print 'Content-disposition: attachment; filename="fname.ext"'
print '\nThis is a test.'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pxlpluker wrote:

> I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
> stored on disk.
>
> the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
> name appear in the browser DL window.
>
> i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
> have real name show in File Save dialog.
>
> in essence i want to push the file name to the browser
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
>
>





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar  9 05:32:04 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 05:32:04 -0500
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
In-Reply-To: <200403090751.i297pHQ29638@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200403090751.i297pHQ29638@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <404D9D24.4050100@rogers.com>

Oliver Kurz wrote:

>Hello,
>
>could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list without using eval or exec?
>
>The string looks like:
>
>'[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc","abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'
>
>and should be converted to a list:
>
>[['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], 'abc'], ['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], ['abc', ['abc', 'abc']], 'abc'], 'abc']
>
>I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.
>  
>
You'd normally use a parser package for this kind of work, here's a 
SimpleParse parser for simple list structures including strings, floats, 
integers and/or hexadecimal-format integers, with support for embedded 
comments and the like as you see in Python:

from simpleparse.parser import Parser
from simpleparse.common import strings, numbers, comments
from simpleparse.dispatchprocessor import *

grammar = r"""
content        := list+
list           := sp,'[',sp, listContents?, sp,']',sp
 >listChild<    := string / float / hex / int / list
 >listContents< := listChild,(sp,',',sp, listChild )*, (sp,',',sp)?
<sp>           := ([ \t\n] / hash_comment)*
"""

parser = Parser( grammar, "content" )

class ListProcessor( DispatchProcessor ):
    string = strings.StringInterpreter()
    int = numbers.IntInterpreter()
    hex = numbers.HexInterpreter()
    float = numbers.FloatInterpreter()
    def list( self, (tag, start, stop, children), buffer ):
        """Get processed children for the children of the list"""
        return dispatchList( self, children, buffer )

if __name__ == "__main__":
    import pprint
    texts = [
        
'[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc","abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]',
        """[ # a list of some sort
        [ # first child
            2.345, 3,
        ],
        ] [] # end of multi-line list""",
    ]
    for text in texts:
        result = parser.parse( text, processor=ListProcessor() )
        pprint.pprint( result )

Now, you'll notice the return-value is actually a list-of-lists from the 
top-level production.  If you only want to allow one list at the 
top-level, simply specify:

parser = Parser( grammar, "list" )

To use the list production as the top-level production.

SimpleParse is available here:
    http://simpleparse.sourceforge.net/

Of course, for such simple samples, writing your own recursive descent 
parser might be just as easy :) .

Have fun, and good luck,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Mon Mar 29 19:25:45 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:25:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
Message-ID: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

Hello, I'm Peter, and I'm very much a newbie.

New in the sense of being a novice at everything to do with programming,
rather than just new to Python, so please be very explicit in your replies
(should you deem me worth of such attention).  I've long had a passing
interest in programming from a macro-conceptual level, but only very
recently have I tried to learn the details of how to impliment my ideas in
code.  Since I'm so inexperienced and learning soley from on-line
documentation in my sparse spare time, I'm finding the learning curve rather
steep, and would appreciate it if you didn't assume that I 'know' anything
(especially with formating issues).

What instigated my uptake of programming was a recently sparked, and rapidly
growing interest in emergent processes, and particularly of computer
applications for them.  I've not covered more than 20 hours of good study on
the subject (accounting for liberal procrastination), but I like to jump in
the deep end with things, and the logic of emergence really 'clicks' with my
brain.  I have, however covered biological evolution in considerably more
depth, so I'm already quite familiar with the concepts involved.

What I've been trying to do with Python is to set up something resembling
John Von Neumann's conception of an imperfectly self-replicating program:

(3.2.1 Self-Reproduction
Nearly all of the practical implementations of articial worlds to be
described are related
in some way to the seminal work of John von Neumann. In the late 1940s and
early
1950s, he devoted considerable time to the question of how complicated
machines could
evolve from simple machines.9 Specically, he wished to develop a formal
description of
a system that could support self-reproducing machines which were robust in
the sense
that they could withstand some types of mutation and pass these mutations on
to their
ospring. Such machines could therefore participate in a process of
evolution.
Inspired by Alan Turing's earlier work on universal computing machines
[Turing 36],
von Neumann devised an architecture which could full these requirements.
The ma-
chine he envisaged was composed of three subcomponents [von Neumann 66]:
1. A general constructive machine, A, which could read a description (X) of
an-
other machine, X, and build a copy of X from this description:
A + (X) ; X (3.1)
(where + indicates a single machine composed of the components to the left
and
right suitably arranged, and ; indicates a process of construction.)
2. A general copying machine, B, which could copy the instruction tape:
B + (X) ; (X) (3.2)
9 Von Neumann had diculties in dening precisely what the term
`complicated' meant. He said \I
am not thinking about how involved the object is, but how involved its
purposive operations are.
In this sense, an object is of the highest degree of complexity if it can do
very dicult and involved
things." [von Neumann 66].
3.2. PREVIOUS WORK 47
3. A control machine, C, which, when combined with A and B, would rst
activate
B, then A, then link X to (X) and cut them loose from (A + B + C):
A + B + C + (X) ; X + (X) (3.3)
Now, if we choose X to be (A + B + C), then the end result is:
A + B + C + (A + B + C) ; A + B + C + (A + B + C) (3.4)
This complete machine plus tape, [A + B + C + (A + B + C)], is therefore
self-
reproducing. From the point of view of the evolvability of this
architecture, the crucial
feature is that we can add the description of an arbitrary additional
automaton D to
the input tape. This gives us:
A + B + C + (A + B + C + D) ; A + B + C +D + (A + B + C + D) (3.5)
Furthermore, notice that if the input tape (A + B + C +D) is mutated in
such a
way that the description of automaton D is changed, but that of A, B and C
are
unaected|that is, the mutated tape is (A + B + C +D0)|then the result of
the
construction will be:
A + B + C+ D + (A + B + C + D) mutation
; A + B + C + D0 + (A + B + C+ D0)
(3.6)
The reproductive capability of the architecture is therefore robust to some
mutations
(specically, those mutations which only aect the description of D), so the
machines
are able to evolve. Von Neumann pointed out that it was the action of the
general copy-
ing automaton, B, which gave his architecture the capacity for evolving
machines of
increased complexity, because B is able to copy the description of any
machine, no mat-
ter how complicated [von Neumann 66] (p.121). This ability is clearly
demonstrated in
Equation 3.5 above.

>From Artificial Evolution to Artificial Life
Timothy John Taylor
Ph.D
University of Edinburgh
1999)

-The formatting on the equations is a bit messed up, but I hope you get the
idea.

Although the concept is quite straight forward, and I have my own ideas
about what specific features I'd like to include, I'm usure as to how to
implement it at the level of coding.  Basically, I wish to create:
1.  An entirely human-designed evolutionary engine.
2.  A file that it '1' will acess, modify, test against a goal to retrive a
score, then save with the modifications intact and ready for the next run or
loop-cycle.
3.  A buffer that will store a population of these files.
4.  A death engine that will remove low scoring files (probably as a part of
'1')

These concepts aren't new, and are already well publicised.  Variants of
them are used for determining coefficient values for engeneering, medical
etc research, but I wish to create a program that's more open ended than a
number-finder.  The Neumann model is incomplete, since it not only fails to
specify a method for mutation beyond the vague decription given, but also
fails to account for the vanishingly small chance that completely random
mutation of a program would produce any intelligible results relative to the
processor's capacity for run cycles (overlooked, perhaps, because of an
over-riding focus on making the evolutionary engine robust to mutation).  To
solve this, I propose an 'incubator' approach, where the engine would, as
part of its evolutionary toolkit, and particularly at the beginnng of the
process before the code becomes complex enough to allow the likelyhood of
non-fatal mutations, scavange code from external sources.

Regardless of any issues of copyright etc, this has the advantage of basing
the now-less random mutations on code that is known to be operable, rather
than the infinite monkies approach of random alphanumeric generation.  To
incorporate this and other revisions and refinements that I've just spotted,
the program structure would look like so:

An entirely human-designed evolutionary engine, which:
1.  Allows the user to set a goal.
2.  Takes random sections of code from a library.
3.  Places them in a text file.
4.  Applies a 'scatter shot' of random alphanumeric changes (with either a
random or a user specified % of alpahnumerals changed)
5.  Runs the file.
6.  Scores the file on how many valid lines it has, if it fufilled the goal,
how long it took, etc.
7.  Saves the score to the file (in the title?).
8.  Repeats for a user specified number of times.
9.  Selects the best programs, deletes the rest
10.  Returns to '3' and repeats until stopped.

At the moment, I'm not even sure if python can create, chop and change
files, so that the effects of a program being run can persist after it's
closed down.  The library modules are still largely incomprehensible to me,
both in their function and their implementation.  I'm a very long way from
understanding how to apply the randomised aspects of the file changes, or
much else for that matter, and I can already see a bunch of things that
would need a lot of tweaking, even if the structure is sound (this is the
first proper program I've planned, which I'm sure means that the structure
is almost certaintly gibberish).

Other things that would be handy:

A bit to make sensible sections of code less vunerable to mutation, and
concentrate changes in 'junk' areas.

Something to decrease or prevent the addition of scavanged code when the
proportion of scavanged code to random alphanumeric changes and working
code, or vice versa (with working code forming the fulcrum of the dynamic).

A 'skills' counter/protector, that would allow files to retain redundant
code if their goal was changed, rather than necessarily losing it to the
pressure of clock cycles and the equivalent of genetic drift.  (For this,
the 'bastion' module looks like it might be useful, though I'm not terribly
sure about how it works, or 'exactly' what it does)

An random goal changer, to provide an impetus for constant evolution without
the need for user input. (There's only so good you can be at any one thing)

An option to give the files an internal copy of the evolution engine, which
could then be modified by itself as it alters the entire file.  (This may
prove difficult, as although this would allow the files to develop more
efficient strategies for the process of evolution itself, it would make them
more vunerable to fatal mutations.  A possible solution would be to have a
'nuclear membrane' - a guard to prevent mutations that are particularly
likely to be fatal eg. mutations that alter significant chunks of the
engine.  It would also be possible to have multiple engines in each cell,
which could self-assess and compare scores, replacing engines that
underperform through damage or 'under-evolution' (radiation resistant
bacteria use a similar technique)


==================
All of this seems like a rather tall order, especially as I'm still
struggling with some of the things from the beginners guide.  Although I
should probably buy a book and work my way through lots of examples of
increasing complexity, I like to tackle things head-on and learn as I go.
Even just writing this message has helped me to clarify to myself what it is
I want to do.

If anybody has even bothered to read this far, I'd ask you please to give
some thought to these ideas (of myself and others), and perhaps to give me
some pointers in the right direction.  Thankyou.




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 08:45:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:45:24 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>

David MacQuigg wrote:

> I know this is the *intended* behavior of reload(), but it has always
> seemed to me like a bug.  Why would you *ever* want to keep pieces of
> an old module when that module is reloaded?

If you wanted a dynamic module, where changes would be picked up by the 
application from time to time, but didn't want to terminate existing 
instances of the old version.  There's nothing wrong with the idea that 
both old and new versions of something could exist in memory, at least 
for a while until the old ones are finished whatever they are doing.

Basically, envision an application update mechanism for long-running 
applications, and its special needs.

> Seems to me we should *fix* reload, not deprecate it.

Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least 
until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one 
problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its behaviour. 
  I think that when you consider Python's namespace mechanism, you can't 
avoid the possibility of situations like the ones reload can now lead to.

-Peter


From spam_bait101 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 05:40:57 2004
From: spam_bait101 at yahoo.com (sb)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 02:40:57 -0800
Subject: pyalamode tips
Message-ID: <221dd125.0403010240.a98c273@posting.google.com>

I want tips to show up in the pyalamode editor, not just the shell. Is
this possible?


From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Wed Mar 10 06:55:44 2004
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:55:44 +0100
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
In-Reply-To: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <c2mvo0$pgo$1@news.tue.nl>

did you look at the module zipfile? This seems to be able to everything 
you describe?

regards Gerrit

> I guess that the best approach is calling a shell tool with something 
> like os.popen(). But I cannot seem to find any free tools.
> 
> Winzip has a command line option, but for registered users only. That is 
> bothersome if I want to install the script on other machines.
> 
> The same for pkwares zip. At least I cannot seem to find a free version 
> of it.
> 
> gzip seems able to do the trick, but I need to install Cygwin, that's 
> also a bother ;-)
> 
> Can it really be that there is no free .zip command line tool for 
> Windows, or are my Googling skills just to poor?
> 
> Ideally it should just be a single .exe file that I can put in the 
> folder with my script, for easy distribution.
> 
> Or is there a more Pythonic approach?
> 
> 
> regards Max M


-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 01:33:04 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:33:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Program not Stripping Headers from Email though Working fine
In-Reply-To: <20040304153338.GA4762@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20040305063304.81533.qmail@web60801.mail.yahoo.com>

when I change the code to msg.as_string() to
msg.get_payload() I get this error:

user at localhost codes]$ python email2.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "email2.py", line 36, in ?
    fwrite.write(msg.get_payload())
TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only
character buffer, not list

How to fix this? The first argument must not be list.
My first argument is a file containing many email
messages. 

Thanks,
Dont


--- Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> dont bother wrote:
> > The code is here, but I dont know why the headers
> are
> > still present in the output file.
> 
> > fwrite.write(msg.as_string())
>                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> The as_string header returns both the headers and
> the body. You want
> something like get_payload()
> 
> Gerrit.
> 
> -- 
> Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 04/03 14:55 UTC:
> 	7.0??C haze mostly clear wind 4.5 m/s E (57 m above
> NAP)
> -- 
> Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
> 	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Mar  5 10:26:29 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:26:29 -0700
Subject: is perl better?
References: <Law11-F111WTgZu6WY9000011a3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004401c402c6$41f93dd0$6401fea9@YODA>

jon wrote:
> Ok, so here's the deal.
>
> some idoit wrote a perl script that executes a java program using the system
> command.
>
> the operating system was windows
>
> I decided to port the evil perl to lovely python.
>
> All seemed fine, except when I run I find that the character string is too
> long?
>
> (a very long class path is parsed to the java executable)
>
> the identical command can be run by perls system call.
>
> why does perl work and not python?

Don't worry - it was just a simple typo in your code on line 7.

HTH,
Dave




From mmaru at visiontv.ca  Wed Mar  3 17:48:10 2004
From: mmaru at visiontv.ca (Maru, Mulugeta)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:48:10 -0500
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
Message-ID: <5E62CFE4CB546F44ADCABD9852C2C8EC0BAA33@email.toronto.visiontv.ca>

Many thanks for the info. I wonder if there is a book on Python and MySQL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Van den Bulke [mailto:eugene at boardkulture.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:22 PM
To: Maru, Mulugeta
Subject: Re: MySQL/PYTHON


http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/MySQL-Connectivity-With-Python/

basic but it does the job ;)

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:18:02 -0500, you wrote in comp.lang.python:

> Is there a turorial on MySQL/Python?
>
> VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television 
> network.
>



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television network.



From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Mar 28 06:23:31 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:23:31 +0200
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
In-Reply-To: <406655A2.CCC571E@doe.carleton.ca>
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<pif9c.10786$TY1.9017@fe1.texas.rr.com>
	<406655A2.CCC571E@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <4066b5a8$0$288$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Fred Ma wrote:

> I took a look at your website.  I've decided to go Perl for now,
> and ramp up on Python on the side.


That's fine. Good luck. Many of us have tried it.

Just remember, that when you have been swimming under the dark cold 
waters of Perl for a few weeks, you can allways swim up to the surface 
and gasp a few fresh breaths of python.

You will then find that those few breaths will take you as far as the 
previuos weeks did.


;-)

regards Max M


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  8 22:16:01 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 04:16:01 +0100
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
 file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404d36f1$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Christian Seberino wrote:

> The only way I could think to do this was to write and read from a file but this
> is SLOW.
> 
> Is there another way **without using a file**??

Fastest is sending the other process a signal using kill().

Otherwise use a FIFO, or a socket. (Unix domain socket will do,
or TCP/IP if you want it to work over the network).
In any case, both processes need to know *something* about
each other to be able to talk ...

--Irmen


From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Fri Mar 19 06:07:07 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:07:07 +0100
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
In-Reply-To: <86b5da9a.0403180007.1cd92b2@posting.google.com>
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
	<4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<86b5da9a.0403180007.1cd92b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405ad3b9$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

o'seally schreef:

> i checked my original posting again. the word 'python' appears a
> couple of times in it, so python is indeed being referred to. read my
> original posting slowly/carefully again, you'll see it.

I did not claim that python was not referred to -- I said that
that was my first impression, as you could have read in my
first reaction. No need to read slowly or carefully, you cannot
really miss it -- unless you want to.



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar 18 11:35:16 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:35:16 -0800
Subject: cgi lib question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F08@opus.amorhq.net>

Gandalf wrote:
> I'm using IIS with Python (as an ActiveScript language). I 
> would like to upload files with multipart/form-data.

No time for analysis at the moment, but here's a working reader from an
app of mine--maybe you can hack it to your purposes:

    def read(self, request):
        """Parse CGI params into a paramset."""
        self.requestParams.clear()
        
        if str(request.ServerVariables("REQUEST_METHOD")).upper() ==
'POST':
            # Note that although 'name' is Unicode, there's no good way
            # to handle non-ASCII chars in the values--you'll just
            # have to make sure all chars over ord(127) get escaped
            # via something like urllib.quote_plus().
            env = {}
            for name in request.ServerVariables:
                try:
                    env[name] = str(request.ServerVariables(name))
                except UnicodeEncodeError, x:
                    if name not in self.skipVarsIfErrors:
                        raise StandardError("Server Variable '%s' could
not be decoded." % name)
            
            contentLength = int(env['CONTENT_LENGTH'])
            content, size = request.BinaryRead(contentLength)
            
            content = StringIO.StringIO(content)
            form = cgi.FieldStorage(content, None, "", env, True)
            content.close()
            
            for key in form:
                value = form[key]
                filename = value.filename
                if filename:
                    filename = self.unicode(filename)
                    key = self.unicode(key)
                    self.requestParams[key] = (filename, value.value)
                else:
                    for subValue in form.getlist(key):
                        key = self.unicode(key)
                        subValue = self.unicode(subValue)
                        self.requestParams[key] = subValue
        else:
            content = self.unicode(request.QueryString())
            inParams = cgi.parse_qs(content, True, False)
            for eachName, eachValue in inParams.items():
                for eachSubValue in eachValue:
                    self.requestParams[eachName] = eachSubValue


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From kmt at MailCentro.zzn.com  Tue Mar  9 17:21:02 2004
From: kmt at MailCentro.zzn.com (Keel Thaan)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:21:02 GMT
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <xqxoer5j33g.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
References: <mailman.178.1078846905.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<xqxoer5j33g.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <irr3c.47638$Ak2.14869626@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

Harry George wrote:

> Emacs with python-mode.el.  For "5" (jump to name), remember to look
> at the IM-Python menu.  

Or use the Emacs Code Browser ( http://ecb.sourceforge.net/ ).



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 16:29:22 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:29:22 -0600
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <105ukgstn1tb867@corp.supernews.com>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405f148a$0$10522$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<mailman.239.1079974422.742.python-list@python.org>
	<105ukgstn1tb867@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <16479.23218.491990.503285@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Peter> The 'batteries included' stuff is more a distribution / packaging
    Peter> issue than the standard library. At least coming from Tcl where
    Peter> we have a 'batteries included' distribution including all sorts
    Peter> of nice things.  However this does not mean that they are part of
    Peter> the standard library.

    >> See:
    >> 
    >> http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/12.html
    >> 
    >> and search for "Frank Stajano".  My guess would be that Frank's paper
    >> got the ball rolling for the "batteries included" concept in Tcl.

    Cameron> I confirm that.  That's verifiably how it happened.

    Cameron> I also don't see that as contradicting what Peter wrote.

Peter said, "The 'batteries included' stuff is more a distribution /
packaging issue than the standard library."  As I recall from Frank's talk
and the quote in the above URL, Frank was definitely using "batteries
included" to mean the stuff that was included as part of the standard
library.

Python's batteries have met my needs quite well.  Refreshing my memory with
my site-packages directory, I can think of only a few things that I've
gotten from elsewhere over the years:

    * timeout_socket - now supplanted by socket's own timeout feature

    * PIL at one point where I was messing around with some simple image
      processing

    * mxDateTime - now supplanted for my meager needs by datetime

    * Zope, Quixote, WebWare - all really more than you'd need/want in the
      standard distribution I think, and all really cross the boundary
      between library and application

    * Object Craft's csv module (and a couple other csv modules) - now
      supplanted by the csv module

    * xmlrpclib - now in the core distribution

    * psyco

    * psycopg and MySQLdb

    * TextFile

Of those, I don't really expect the web app framework stuff to turn up in
the core (too many to choose from, no "one best way", too big), PIL's
probably too specialized for the core, psyco is still largely experimental
(though once it stabilizes and supports at least one non-Intel CPU I think
it should be considered), database connectors probably don't belong in the
core because there are too many databases to connect to, and TextFile
(transparently gzip files on output) could have been written easily enough
had I not stumbled upon it first.

Skip



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 13 22:01:50 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:01:50 -0000
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<16467.45496.356599.481075@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.11.1079229447.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1057ioup9tpno32@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.11.1079229447.745.python-list at python.org>,
kbass <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I have experience about 4 years of Java experience (designed and developed
>numerous projects as a consultant in the past), 10+ years of Oracle
>experience, about 5 years of Perl experience so programming is not a problem
>. I guess my main point that I should have touch upon was learning Python
>and influencing management to go the Python route in a company where Java is
>the standard.
>
>The Python Advocacy site is a good starting point to achieve the goal of
>influencing direct management but influencing other programmers could be an
>endeavor within itself too. One to five programmers developing in Python
>would be considered 'rouge programmers' at my company so convincing Java and
>VB programs to use Python will be a definite challenge.
>
>It took me about 2 to 4 months to successfully influence management that
>Linux AS was a direction that our departmental server should be but
>influencing them about Python maybe an uphill battle due to other I.T.
>departments and non-I.T. departments using Java and VB.  I am up for the
>challenge.
			.
			.
			.
I think I understand you better now.

I encourage you to regard Python as a good team player.
I know of plenty of projects nominally committed to Java
or C or C++, that use Jython or CPython (or Pyrex!) to
achieve high-quality results quickly.

VB-Python relations are more complex but potentially even
more potent.  VB is hard to beat for the things at which
it's good, of course, but its limits are largely ones 
where Python happens to be a clear winner.  One example:
VB GUIs are dumb--they resize unintelligently, it's clumsy
to attach deep computations to user actions, and so on.
Tkinter (among other toolkits) is great for vitalizing a
GUI that's more than just a data-entry form-processor.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Thu Mar 18 22:46:01 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:46:01 GMT
Subject: dictionary wart
References: <mailman.128.1079618371.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5Bi6c.11865$g4.240193@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <Z1u6c.25405$P45.11970@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Jesper wrote:
> 
> 
> Aloysio Figueiredo wrote:
>> Why don't you extend the dict type to have your custom behaviour?
>> 
>> 
> [znip]
> 
> That's a good point - thanks.
> 
> I think I will do it that way - but I still think it is a feature 
> lacking from the core language.


It's a pretty clear violation of "Explicit is better than implicit",
so I think it's more accurate to say that it is "not there by design"
than "lacking."


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From faizan at jaredweb.com  Mon Mar 15 13:37:11 2004
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 10:37:11 -0800
Subject: Timeouts with urllib2
Message-ID: <7b454334.0403151037.3e78dca9@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I was wondering what's the best way of setting timeouts when working with urllib2.  

Thanks,


From bluexcell at aol.com  Sat Mar  6 12:34:24 2004
From: bluexcell at aol.com (Bluexcell)
Date: 06 Mar 2004 17:34:24 GMT
Subject: machine control script ( parameterless method? )
References: <340a6b1b6f65b385490e5d818b2b6c9e@news.scbiz.com>
Message-ID: <20040306123424.20326.00000892@mb-m04.aol.com>

Assuming your machine program is not hard wired..then the user is using some
form of GUI or other interface to alter the parameters for control, why not use
a Tkinter GUI to create the program I/O interface.. the checks and safeguards
for  for incorrect entry are hidden and the user is more inclined to enter the
right data in the right place?


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 10 11:55:54 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:55:54 +0100
Subject: Dispatch, DispatchWithEvents
Message-ID: <3c8gljz9.fsf@python.net>

I'm currently reinventing the wheel ;-), implementing 'clones' for the
win32com.client.Dispatch and DispatchWithEvents functions using ctypes.
It works fairly well, although the more complicated data types like
SAFEARRAY or RECORD are not yet implemented.

The win32com.client versions of these functions require makepy support
(for DispatchWithEvents), and create this on demand.  The ctypes
versions don't require something similar, they are using the ITypeComp
interface at runtime to bind methods, properties, and constants on
demand, for events support they use either IProvideClassInfo2 to find
the outgoing interface, or iterate through the type library to find the
type info and finally ITypeComp for the default outgoing interface.

For my own sake, I'm trying to keep the ctypes version as compatible as
possible to the win32com versions, although I'm not happy by some of the
design decisions Mark Hammond or whoever wrote this stuff made.

First, constants defined in the type libraries are exposed in the
win32com.client.constants instance, which is internally a sequence of
dictionaries.  Wouldn't it be better to have the constants available in
the object returned by the Dispatch() call itself, maybe in a _constants
property?  I'm also wondering how VB does this...

My second 'complaint' is about the event handlers.  It seems win32com
prepends 'On' to the method handler names if the method itself, as
defined in the type library, doesn't already start with 'On'.  Take
Internetexplorer as an example.  The DWebBrowserEvents2 outgoing
interface has methods named "BeforeNavigate2", "NavigateComplete2", and
"OnQuit".  The handlers in Python then must be named
"OnBeforeNavigate2", "OnNavigateComplete2", and "OnQuit".  The method
names look nice in the Python class implementation, and their templates
are also available as commented out code in the makepy generated files,
but looking at the Internet Explorer type library with Oleview, I find
this very confusing.  What is the reason that it was chosen this way?

Thomas




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  7 03:01:36 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:01:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problem processing Chinese character with Python
In-Reply-To: <20040307040100.GG1878@frobozz>
Message-ID: <20040307080136.5191.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, I fiddled with the Chinese punctuations, and it
can work elegantly now.

Thanks a lot!

--- Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org>
wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 02:05:11AM -0800, Anthony
> Liu wrote:
> > Andrew gave me a sample code with let me read a
> text
> > file sentence by sentence.
> > 
> > Suppose I just wanna read the part between 2 full
> > stops each time.
> > 
> > It works nicely with English text files, where the
> > full stop is a dot (.).  
> > 
> > But when I tried to read Chinese text files, I
> found
> > that it sometimes reads a few sentences at one
> time.
> 
> Yep -- you'll notice I'm reading bytes, but the
> sentences generator is
> expecting characters.  That assumption holds for
> ASCII, but not many other
> encodings.
> 
> You need some way of reading *characters*, rather
> than bytes from the file.
> To do this you need to know the encoding of the file
> (of course), and then I
> guess you need to try to decode the bytes as you
> read them in.  I'm just a
> boring mono-lingual English speaker, so I haven't
> really played with unicode
> much, but I guess something along these lines would
> work:
> 
> def characters(textFile, encoding):
>     bytes = ''
>     for byte in iter(lambda: textFile.read(1), ''):
>         bytes += byte
>         try:
>             yield bytes.decode(encoding)
>         except TypeError:
>             pass
>         else:
>             bytes = ''
>     if bytes:
>         yield bytes.decode(encoding)
>         
> Hopefully someone who knows more about unicode will
> tell me if I've somehow
> got this completely wrong.
>         
> Again, reading one byte at a time is pretty
> inefficient.  You can probably
> optimise fairly easily by reading and decoding large
> chunks.
> 
> -Andrew.
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Mar 23 08:23:03 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 14:23:03 +0100
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.230.1079954390.742.python-list@python.org>
	<blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyfk71b66ko.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> When you say "accessing" globals, we need to distinguish between
> "referencing" and "setting".

Actually, I think that "referencing" works fine as it is. The problem
is that "setting" (at the moment) can either be "creating a new
binding" or "rebinding an existing name". Now, we have a way of
disambiguating this in the case of globals (the "global" keyword), but
there is no way of doing it for generally nested scopes. (Remember
that the "globals" keyword was introduced before nested scopes, so
(essentially) all possibilities were covered by it at the time it was
invented.)

But, yes, the problem is that we have one and the same syntax for
binding and re-binding.

> I'm not feeling much need to set variables other than local or
> global,

I think it is important to be able to rebind the currently visible
binding of any name, without having to know or care whether that
binding, is local, nested, or global (or even builtin, maybe)
... while at the same time being able to create a new local binding,
without knowing or caring whether doing so shadows some other binding
to that same name.

All this can be achieved by the simple expedient of distinguishing
binding and re-binding. (Though I have no truly convincing suggestion
of how this distinction should be spelt in Python.)


If anyone cares to see a "gory details" explanation of binding vs
rebinding, read on ... otherwise I recommend you stop here :-)

====================================================================

For example, in the Lisp family of languages, new bindings (new
scopes) are introduced by function parameters and by "let" forms,
while _re_-bindings are performed by some sort of "set" forms.


Here I show the values bound to the names "a", "b" and "c" as the code
shown on the left is being executed.


                        a       b       c
                                
(let ((a "a0")          a0                   New binding of "a"
      (b "b0")          a0      b0           New binding of "b"
      (c "c0"))         a0      b0      c0   New binding of "c"
  (setq a "a1")         a1      b0      c0   Rebinding "a"
  (setq b "b1")         a1      b1      c0   Rebinding "b"
  (setq c "c1")         a1      b1      c1   Rebinding "c"
  (defun foo (a)     Not executed until foo is called 
    (setq a "a2")                   ^
    (setq b "b2")                   |
    (setq c "c2")                   |
    (let ((b "b3"))                 |
      (setq a "a4")                 |
      (setq b "b4")                 |
      (setq c "c4"))                |
    (setq a "a5")                   |
    (setq b "b5")                   V
    (setq c "c5"))   Not executed until foo is called 
  (setq a "a6")         a6       b1      c1  Rebinding "a"
  (setq b "b6")         a6       b6      c1  Rebinding "b"
  (setq c "c6"))        a6       b6      c6  Rebinding "c"



Now, a call to "foo" such as this

(foo "aa")

runs in the lexical environment established above. Let's copy 'n'
paste the source code of foo, and inspect the bindings as the function
is executed. The outer bindings of the names "a", "b" and "c" are in
the state they were left in, at the time "foo" was defined, as shown
above.

Note that now we shadow outer bindings by creating inner bindings to
the same name (in which case two values are listed under a single name
- only the inner binding (the value shown on the right) is visible in
the program).

                        a       b       c
                                      
                        a6      b6      c6  Lexically visible bindings
  (defun foo (a)        a6 aa   b6      c6  Shadow outer "a" with new binding
    (setq a "a2")       a6 a2   b6      c6  Rebind inner "a"
    (setq b "b2")       a6 a2   b2      c6  Rebind outer "b"
    (setq c "c2")       a6 a2   b2      c6  Rebind outer "c"
    (let ((b "b3"))     a6 a2   b2 b3   c6  Shadow outer "b" with new binding
      (setq a "a4")     a6 a4   b2 b3   c6  Rebind inner "a"
      (setq b "b4")     a6 a4   b2 b4   c6  Rebind inner "b"
      (setq c "c4"))    a6 a4   b2 b4   c4  Rebind outer "c"
                        a6 a4   b2      c4  Inner "b" goes out of scope
    (setq a "a5")       a6 a5   b5      c4  Rebind inner "a"
    (setq b "b5")       a6 a5   b5      c4  Rebind "b"
    (setq c "c5"))      a6 a5   b5      c5  Rebind "c"
                        a6      b5      c5  Inner "a" goes out of scope

In Python, both "let" and "setq" are spelt "=". However, in the case
of a global binding "(setq x y)" can be spelt "global x; x = y".

"let" and "setq" give us a way to express whether we want to rebind an
existing binding, or to create a new one.


From pkropf at legato.com  Fri Mar 12 13:06:51 2004
From: pkropf at legato.com (Peter Kropf)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:06:51 -0800
Subject: UNC paths in file object open
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B0678B969@pa-mail1.legato.com>

You need a few more \'s:

d:\>python
Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> f = open( '\\centipede\space\gandalf.zip', 'r' )
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'\\centipede\\space\\gandalf.zip'
>>> f = open( '\\\\centipede\\space\\gandalf.zip', 'r' )
>>>

- Peter



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graham [mailto:gsmith at oxfam.org.uk] 
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:41 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: UNC paths in file object open
> 
> 
> I ma trying to open a file on a network share
> 
> ie \\servername\share\folder\file
> 
> afile = open( \\server\share\folder\file, "r" )
> 
> have also tried
> afile = open( //server/share/folder/file, "r" ) # as per the 
> Python cookbook advice on page 113 namely " use / regardless 
> of the proclivities of the underlying operating system".
> 
> Neither work.
> 
> I am running python on XP and accessing win 2000 share.
> 
> Thanks for any help
> 
> Graham Smith
> 
> PeopleSoft Technical Team Leader
> OXFAM GB
> +44 (1865) 313255
> gsmith at oxfam.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 22:41:23 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:41:23 +1200
Subject: Syntax of 'in' : searching a list for a string
In-Reply-To: <1079989917.12966.1@nnrp-t71-01.news.uk.clara.net>
References: <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc@posting.google.com>
	<1079989917.12966.1@nnrp-t71-01.news.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <c3tkd3$2bu788$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Garry Knight wrote:
> If supportList is a list of strings, then this should work in Python 2.3 and
> above:
> 
> for i in supportList:
>   if 'Remove' in i:
>     print 'Found it in', i

But you only need that if you're looking for a string that
contains 'Remove' rather than one that exactly equals
'Remove'.

If you're looking for an exact match, the original version
should work in any version of Python.

It looks more like the OP's problem was that supportList
was actually a string rather than a list of strings.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From tismer at stackless.com  Sun Mar  7 11:30:39 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:30:39 +0100
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <c2e935$bgh$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>	<mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org><6Fu2c.2306$G3.18772@localhost>	<404A9BAB.7030503@stackless.com>
	<c2e935$bgh$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <404B4E2F.7000009@stackless.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote in message
> news:404A9BAB.7030503 at stackless.com...
> 
>>I will look into PyGame, which does not have a GUI at all,
> 
> 
> There is a gui-sort-of-package 'associated' in some sense with PyGame.
> Forget name.  Main difference from 'imitate native look and feel' packages
> is that one can define own renderer to give quite different look and feel,
> as most games do.

Maybe this is
http://pyui.sourceforge.net/

I will have a look. Thanks a lot!

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From fpm at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 10:59:20 2004
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 15:59:20 GMT
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<c24cb3$1oj5g2$1@ID-112871.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c24vco$9ro$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <c24cb3$1oj5g2$1 at ID-112871.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Andr? Kelpe  <fs111 at linuxmail.org> wrote:
>sb wrote:
>
>> Hello
>
>Hi!
>
>>    - reference manual invocation by keyword from within the editor
>
>Please try my pydoc.vim, it is available at:
>
>http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=910
>
>>    - object browser,
>
>Use taglist.vim, it is great!
>
>Andr?

Thanks Andre, that looks great!

Now if I could only get vim to highlight paren/bracket/curly-bracket
completion as it does when editing shell scripts!

	-frank
-- 


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 31 05:13:08 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:13:08 +0200
Subject: proper use of braces in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4e5gr$4qi$1@swifty.westend.com>

Michael wrote:
>>    int main (void)
>>    {
>>        if (true)
>>        {
>>        }
>>
>>        return 0;
>>    }
>>
>> There is no other way.
>>  
>>
> No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!

Why not? It's a cheap way to increase your LOC/month power. :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From pernell.h.williams.nospam at intel.com  Mon Mar 15 14:22:33 2004
From: pernell.h.williams.nospam at intel.com (Pernell Williams)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:22:33 -0800
Subject: xreadlines() being used with file.tell() and  file.seek()
Message-ID: <c34vpp$7s3$1@news01.intel.com>


Hi all:



I am new to Python, and this is my first post (and it won't be my last!), so
HELLO EVERYONE!! I am attempting to use "xreadlines", an outer loop and an
inner loop in conjunction with "file.tell() and file.seek() in order to
navigate through a file in order to print specific lines (for example, every
5th line). Allow me to illustrate by example:



I have a file like this:



1:one

2:two

3:three

4:four

5:five

6:six

7:seven

8:eight

9:nine

10:ten

11:eleven



And I would like to use an outer and inner loop with the xreadlines()
command in order to provide this output:



the line I would like to print is 1

the line I would like to print is 6

the line I would like to print is 11



Now, I have code using "readline() " in both the inner and outer loop. This
code gives me the output that I am looking for:



------------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python



#opening the file for reading

str = 'myFile'

file = open(str, 'r')



#outer loop using file.readline



while 1:

  line = file.readline()

  if line == '':

    break

  data = line.rstrip().split(':')

  print "the line I would like to print is", data [0]



  #inner loop is reading contents of the file,

  #and aftr 5 iterations,

  # going back to  outer loop



  count = 0

  while 1:



    position = file.tell()

    count = count +1

    data = file.readline().strip().split(":")

    if count == 5:

      file.seek(position)

      break



  # end of inner while loop

#end of outer while loop



file.close()



--------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I have code using xreadlines() that does NOT work:





--------------------------------------------------------------------- 

#!/usr/bin/env python



# This section of code opens the file for reading

str = 'myFile'

file = open(str, 'r')

position = 0



# this outer loop uses xreadlines to read in all of the lines of the file



for line in file.xreadlines():

  data = line.rstrip().split(':')

  print "The line I would like to print is", data[0]

  theFileSeek = file.seek(position)



  #this iner loop reads through the file and loops through

  #until count ==5. It then saves the position of the file

  #when count ==5, and passes that info to the inner loop



  count = 0

  while 1:

    position = file.tell()

    line = file.readline()

data = line.rstrip().split(':')

    count = count + 1



    if count == 5:

      file.seek(position)

      break

  #end while inner loop

#end while outer loop



file.close()



------------------------------------------------------------------



The code that does not work gives me this output:



The line I would like to print is 1

The line I would like to print is 2

The line I would like to print is 3

The line I would like to print is 4

The line I would like to print is 5

The line I would like to print is 6

The line I would like to print is 7

The line I would like to print is 8

The line I would like to print is 9

The line I would like to print is 10

The line I would like to print is 11



Please help!! How do I use the xreadlines() command (for the outer and inner
loop) to accomplish this? Why doesn't xreadlines() and file.seek() work
together? Or do they? I need to use xreadlines() instead of readline()
because the files I will be processing are huge, and xreadlines() processes
faster than readline().  Thanks, and sorry for the long post!


-- 
Remove ".nospam" from e-mail address to reply




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 16:12:14 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:12:14 +0100
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <404795ce.683812@news.muenster.de>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
	<2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
	<c27ivn$3ao$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<404795ce.683812@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <c2861t$kft$1@swifty.westend.com>

Martin Bless schrieb:
> And then: Is it possible to reopen sys.stdout if the platform ist not
> Unix-like?

Yes but e.g. Win32 does not know /dev files, so am not sure what
to substitute for /dev/tty. DOS had a "device" called CON which is
still alive in Win32 consoles (echo Hi > CON) but I have not tested
that.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From mirko-lists at zeibig.net  Wed Mar  3 09:40:36 2004
From: mirko-lists at zeibig.net (Mirko Zeibig)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:40:36 +0100
Subject: Replace text with value form dictionary (regexp)
In-Reply-To: <c24ouh$i92$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c24ouh$i92$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c24qp4$1ounpo$1@ID-198792.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin said the following on 03/03/2004 03:09 PM:
> Hi there
> 
> I want to implement a small templating system where values in angle brackets
> should be replaced by the corresponding dicitionary value ("foo {x} bar" ->
> "foo 10 bar");

Hm, why don't you just use the "normal" pyformat-replacements ala 
"%(KEY)FORMAT":

print """
<html>
<head>
<title>%(title)s</title>
</head>
<body>
<h1>%(title)s</h1>
I got %(amount)0.2f dollars
</body>
</html>
""" % { 'title': 'My account', 'amount': 3.5 }

Regards
Mirko
-- 


From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar  8 14:30:52 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:30:52 -0700
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <mailman.102.1078694269.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pnhp405agud0abkt5obgae2oagv5599ljq@4ax.com>

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:16:22 -0800, "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org>
wrote:
>benjamin schollnick wrote:
>>    I am assuming your running into these lines on a regular basis, so
>> make a wrapper around your python function...  Call it "Cleanup" or
>> "Parse_bar_line_string" or something that makes sense to your
>> users, and have them call that function....
>
>Well said. Even though you (David) are ostensibly providing coding
>tools, you need to approach it from an interface-design point-of-view.
>That is, you need to find the perfect balance between power and
>simplicity, then throw that estimate away and dumb it down by a factor
>of 10 (for non-engineers, 100 ;). Most people don't want more expressive
>tools; a sure way to burn yourself out is trying to provide them. Find
>the smallest set of actions your users can get by with, then build,
>test, listen!, improve. Repeat as necessary. Bask in job security.

Ah yes.  For many years I basked.  I kept telling myself, "Just go
with the flow.  Don't fight for the user and annoy all the experts.
Just learn all the tricks and enjoy my job security."  But the
frustration got to be too much, so I set off to brave the storm in my
little boat.  Now I am working without pay, guided by my faith that I
can provide tools that will put the design engineer in control.  I
know it can be done.  I just don't know if the non-technical issues
are going to be overwhelming.

As to your point above, I think I agree.  Simple is more important
than compact or elegant.  I just wish we had both on these string
operations.

-- Dave



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Tue Mar 23 09:55:15 2004
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:55:15 +0100
Subject: Psyco and generators
Message-ID: <40604FD3.4090500@jandecaluwe.com>

Hi:

I am using Python to simulate hardware descriptions, using
my MyHDL package. Basically, a MyHDL simulation consists of
a set of cooperating generators, that communicate through
Signal objects. Signal objects are often free variables
in a generator.

I'm interested in using Psyco to speed up simulations. Today,
the speed up is negligable. This is logical as Psyco currently
doesn't have compilation support for generators nor for free
variables.

My questions: is there any fundamental issue with generators
or free variables that would prevent psyco to support them?
If not, are there plans to do so?

Regards, Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
    Python is fun, and now you can design hardware with it:
    http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/Overview.html


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Wed Mar 24 19:05:22 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:05:22 -0800
Subject: Globbing in List Search?
Message-ID: <4LGdndsGmLrdv__dRVn-tw@centurytel.net>

Does Python have a globbing-type list search capability, like "lsearch -glob
$list" in TCL?


From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Mar 30 01:12:47 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:12:47 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: QuickTimeTcl and Python/Tkinter crash
In-Reply-To: <a4638b9b.0403291753.4a490a08@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.42.1080555269.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<a4638b9b.0403291753.4a490a08@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403300906110.29612@sampo.csc.fi>

On Tue, 29 Mar 2004, Myles wrote:

> You might wish to try trapping the destroy event, and writing your own
> exit routine that explicitly destroys the Movie object.

I'm afraid writing an explicit destroy method did not do the trick. I
still get the same error. ("""The instruction at "0x6697c820" referenced
memory at "0x01681f1c". The memory could not be "written". Click on OK to
terminate the program""")

Here is the latest code (that still causes the crash):

-------------------------------

import Tkinter

class Movie(Tkinter.Widget):
    """Wrapper class for QuickTimeTcl::movie."""
    def __init__(self, parent, cnf={}, **kw):
	"""Constructor. Parameters the same as here:
        http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben/qt/htmldocs/movie.html"""
        parent.tk.eval('package require -exact QuickTimeTcl 3.1')
        Tkinter.Widget.__init__(self, parent, 'movie', cnf, kw)

def closing(m, r):
    """Test for destroying the movie and root window when clicking X."""
    m.destroy()
    m = None
    r.destroy()

root = Tkinter.Tk()
m = Movie(root, file="toaster.mpeg")
m.pack()
root.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW",
              (lambda x=m, y=root: closing(x,y)))
root.mainloop()

## Tried the following too, but has not effect.
m = None
del m

----------------------------------

Any ideas what to try next!?

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 10 07:56:48 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:56:48 +0100
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
In-Reply-To: <c2mvo0$pgo$1@news.tue.nl>
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c2mvo0$pgo$1@news.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <404F1090.9030900@mxm.dk>

Gerrit Muller wrote:

> did you look at the module zipfile? This seems to be able to everything 
> you describe?


Yes i did. But as I read it, it works on single files only.

But after your posting I found: "7.19 tarfile -- Read and write tar 
archive files"

So I can just create .tar.gz files instead it seems.

That is just dandy.

Maybe that'll teach me to look better the next time.

I should have known that if it is something I need, it is in the library.


thank Max M


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 14 18:51:52 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:51:52 -0500
Subject: creating array of python objects
References: <slrnc594jv.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <c32r6l$77q$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Faheem Mitha" <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnc594jv.46q.faheem at Chrestomanci.home.earth...
> Dear People,
>
> I have the current modest goal. Given a user defined class, I want to
> creata an array of instances of that class.

Given that the purpose of Numerical Python and NumArray are to make
available fast unboxed raw number array computations, I wonder whether a
plain old simple list of lists wouldn't serve your purpose, at least for
prototyping:

Cells = [[cell(),cell()], [cell(),cell()]]
# easily generalized with nested list comprehensions.

Terry J. Reedy







From frr149 at telefonica.net  Thu Mar  4 10:03:13 2004
From: frr149 at telefonica.net (Boogie El Aceitoso)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:03:13 +0100
Subject: Especialized generator
References: <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6@4ax.com>
	<c2740k$j7v$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <i8he409l1a256bd9pamp6jlsgkqvcueuus@4ax.com>

On 4 Mar 2004 06:30:28 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6 at 4ax.com>,
>Boogie El Aceitoso  <frr149 at telefonica.net> wrote:
>>
>>I want to write a generator that specializes on os.walk. It should
>>yield only certain kinds of files.
>>
>>What's the best way of doing this? How do you save the state on the
>>base generator?
>
>You don't.  You write another generator that yields appropriate results
>from calling os.walk().  Chaining generators is *wonderful*.

I think I got it. And yes, it IS wonderful. :-)


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar  7 19:47:07 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:47:07 -0500
Subject: dynamic names
References: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104ngoc1b28ir28@news.supernews.com>

"Val Bykoski" <val at vtek.com> wrote in message
news:a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea at posting.google.com...
> I'm currently in a familiar to many business of filing my tax
> return.  Being a big fan of Python and to make the process less painful,
> i started by writing my favored schedules A,B,C, and the most favored
> form 1040 in Python.  Everything was a real fun until i got to the
> very famous motif "add lined Lx to Ly".
> This is my naive (master)piece:
>
> def sumL(L1,L2):
>    # sum up a range of Ls
>    tot=0.
>    for L in range(L1,L2+1):
>       #nL=exec("L%s" % L)
>       tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
>    return tot
>
> pythonw -u "sumL.py"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "sumL.py", line 11, in ?
>     sumL(1,4)
>   File "sumL.py", line 7, in sumL
>     tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str'
> >Exit code: 1
>
> Any help would be life-saving.

Actually, I'd put them in a dictionary, where the key is
the line number (or the form and the line number).
Then the totaling routine can check whether the line
was even entered and assume 0 if it wasn't. It's also
not that hard to set up lines with possible multiple line
items as lists in the dictionary.

Have fun with the application: it's a lot tougher
than it looks on the surface.

John Roth
>
> let's-make-python-a-tax-pain-killer-ly y'rs
> val




From http  Sat Mar 13 18:28:28 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 15:28:28 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for Random module
Message-ID: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.py

This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
are appreciated.


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Sat Mar 20 12:28:39 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:28:39 -0000
Subject: Invalid character in os.system call...
Message-ID: <00ef01c40ea0$c9104760$0600a8c0@Hugh>

I can across some very strange behaviour last week that I'm sure wasn't
happening before.... (this is all running under Linux)

I've got two scripts.... I'm going to cut them down to the problematic
parts:

script1:

import os
os.system("script2 -f ####.tif")


script2:

import sys
print sys.argv


Now, these look fine... However, when I run 'script1', I get the following
output from script2:

['script2', '-f']

But if I run the following from the command line:
script2 -f ####.tif

I get the following output:

['script2', '-f', '####.tif']

I'm sure it never used to do this, but it nicely killed one of my scripts,
and I only fixed it by changing the line in script1 to:

os.system("script2 -f \"####.tif\"")

I don't think I should need to do that, and I'm sure I didn't used to...

So what's going on? Is os.system() taking everything after the first '#' as
a comment, or is it the way the command-line is interpreting it?

Any comments on what's causing this would be welcome - it's not a problem,
but it confused me for a while.....


Hugh Macdonald




From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 23 17:12:14 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:12:14 -0000
Subject: module for terminal questions?
References: <m2d675drk6.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <1061dhu6tdffpbf@corp.supernews.com>

In article <m2d675drk6.fsf at bella.local>, leo  <leo at bella.local> wrote:
>hi there
>
>for a light weight commandline tool i want to build in same little
>dialog questions like 'Do you want to proceed? [Y/n]' etc.
>
>is there a module avaible what does make that easier then doing it via
>raw_input?
			.
			.
			.
The standard answer is <URL: http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/curses/ >.
Does that appear to you "easier than doing it via raw_input"?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Mar 26 15:18:04 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:18:04 +0100
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument
References: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07> <g2J8c.3479$GH3.2493@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <c422qk$p6$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

Have a good night, with this other solution :


# derived from the standard doc on Python
import imp,sys

def importAs(name):
    try:
        return sys.modules[name]
    except KeyError:
        pass
    fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module(name)
    try:
        return imp.load_module(name, fp, pathname, description)
    finally:
        if fp:
            fp.close()

mtext='string'
toto=importAs(mtext)
print toto.upper('sean berry')    # ==> SEAN BERRY




@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
site : http://mclaveau.com










From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sun Mar 14 15:06:55 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:06:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: creating array of python objects
In-Reply-To: <20040314193736.GD7397@unpythonic.net>
References: <slrnc594jv.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<20040314193736.GD7397@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403141503300.1971@Chrestomanci>



On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Jeff Epler wrote:

> I don't believe that numarray supports arrays of Python objects.
> The list of Numarray types doesn't list them:
> http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/numarray-0.9.html/node21.html#tab:type-specifiers
>
> This is the meaning of the "not a numeric type" message.

Todd Miller said some stuff had not been documented yet. In any case, this
is from a numarray help page!

> Using numpy, you can create an array of PyObjects where each entry is a
> reference to the same cell object:
>     >>> class cell:
>     ...     def setrow(self,row):
>     ...         self.row = row
>     ...     def setcol(self,col):
>     ...         self.col = col
>     ...
>     >>> empcell = cell()
>     >>> a = Numeric.reshape([empcell]*4, (2,2))
>     >>> a[0][0].setrow(10)
>     >>> a[1][1].row         # because they are the same object
>     10
> If you want distinct objects, you'll have to use
>     >>> a = Numeric.reshape([cell() for i in range(4)], (2,2))
>
> Jeff

Thanks for the info. However, I was going by

 numarray.objects

FILE
    /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/numarray/objects.py

DESCRIPTION
    objects -- This module defines a class and set of functions for
    manipulating arrays of Python objects.  It defines functions which
    correspond to most of the most of the operators defined in Python's
    operator module, and provides names compatible with most of numarray's
    universal functions.
    ...

I thought this meant I *could* create an array of python objects. Am I
misunderstanding something?

Thanks for the help.
                                                             Faheem.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 10:07:24 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:07:24 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <e4e0340c.0403232103.7fd0d6b0@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<e4e0340c.0403221615.356e8794@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.266.1080024073.742.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403232103.7fd0d6b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16481.42028.571927.626619@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> The syntax in PEP318 is syntactic sugar for the most common use of
    >> function decorators, the current syntax would still be supported.

    Jess> That's good to hear.  Should this be made explicit in the PEP?

It's not really necessary, since the "current syntax" is just a normal
Python function call.

Skip




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Mar 10 08:00:26 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:00:26 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
In-Reply-To: <wzn06o50jc.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>
	<wzn06o50jc.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <404F116A.7080008@ghaering.de>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>>michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) (F) wrote:
> 
> F> Because I *won't* be allowed to install anything other than python
> F> scripts on the server...........
> 
> F> So I am looking for a database implementation in python........
> 
> I suppose your python script is allowed to write some file(s), otherwise you
> wouldn't be able to implement a database. You could import a special
> _sqlite.py module that has _sqlite.pyd encoded in a big string, and on
> the first call writes it out to _sqlite.pyd and wouldn't be called on
> subsequent times.

OMG :-o

-- Gerhard



From ville at spammers.com  Mon Mar 29 06:53:16 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 14:53:16 +0300
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <du73c7r7tub.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> writes:

    Mark> I certain that it IS possible to add ANYTHING to Python.  My
    Mark> whole motivation for Prothon was to start fresh with a clean
    Mark> slate and have less.  I'm still experimenting with things
    Mark> that can be removed.

I guess the issue is whether it would have been simpler to fork the
CPython interpreter, providing patches that enable the prototype-based
programming. It would have been quite a jump start, if feasible.

    Mark> Having said that, I think there are things about Prothon
    Mark> that really kick ass.  The combination of threaded
    Mark> interpreter with extremely simple locking objects is
    Mark> exceeding my expectations.  This engine is really going to
    Mark> shine when it matures.

Sounds great. If you prove that it's the faster approach, perhaps
we'll be seeing something like that in CPython soon. 

FWIW, I would guesstimate that the tab indentation mostly serves to
kill the interest of many who would otherwise take a deeper
look. There are many (like me) who think that the approach is
fundamentally wrong.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From theller at python.net  Tue Mar 16 16:12:52 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:12:52 +0100
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <mailman.13.1079398001.742.python-list@python.org>
	<105cr4i7evg2gce@news.supernews.com>
	<105e3bgll8cpq23@corp.supernews.com>
	<105eq6fjrfub2e7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <y8q01oob.fsf@python.net>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>>'Couple of us were just talking about setting up a Tkinter
>>mailing list and Wiki.  Should we?
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Well, we have:  see <URL:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss >
> for details.
>
> One of the first chores will be to twist the arms of the
> usual suspects (Jeff, John, Fredrik, John, Tim?, ...) into
> subscribing.

Then you might want to register this list with gmane (if you haven't
already).  Reading news is probably easier for most people than
subscribing to and managing the mail from a mailing list.

Thomas




From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Mon Mar  1 13:56:56 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:56:56 -0000
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2011t$h2o@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>


<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote in message news:3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731 at posting.google.com...

> The Fortran program is more than 300 times faster.

Yes. Although this example does suit very aggressive optimization.
It doesn't quite precompute the answer but there is some fancy
parallelisation going on.




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 08:09:34 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 14:09:34 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Andrew Wilkinson <ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk> writes:
> 
> > assaf__ at walla.com wrote:
> 
> > I find the lack of static type checking to cause some bugs to hide
> > in my code that in other languages would be found at compile time.
> 
> I feel honour-bound to point out that citing static typing (explicit
> static typing, in particular) as a means of creating more correct
> programs, to be one of the greatest contemporary myths of software
> engineering.

As this statement appears to be causing some interest, I thought I'd
best prestent, in public, a slightly more thoughtful summary of my
thoughts on the subject:


- Static typing systems refuse to compile programs which contain type
  errors.

- Test suites point out where your program deviates from expected
  behaviour.

What is more important to you and/or your clients ?  Ask yourself the
following questions:

- Do your clients give a hoot about whether or not a program is
  considered to be type-correct by the type system of programming
  language X ?

- Do your clients care whether your program does what it is supposed to
  do ?

Yes, test suites are incomplete and contain bugs (not by design but
through human fallability), but at least they set out to judge a
program by relevant criteria. The criteria by which static typing
systems judge a program are mostly irrelevant to the goals you are
trying to achieve in writing the program.

Now, I've seen C++ turn the "goal you are trying to achieve" into
"make the compiler accept my program", on more than one
occasion[*]. That only supports my point: static typing systems move
the goalposts in the mind of the development team[+]. But only in the
mind of the development team: the customer still wants a program that
does what it's supposed to do.

Getting a 95% correct solution to your task, is better than getting a
100% correct solution to an orthogonal task. Passing the tests in a
95% (or 90% or 80%) complete/correct test suite, gets you closer to
solving your clients' problems than does passing 100% of the
requirements of a static type system.

For those last few percent, neither test suites, not static typing
system can offer you any guarantee.


[*] It compiles! Quick, ship it before it breaks! :-)

[+] C++ does have a special talent for this sort of thing, not only
    via its type system, but because of its design as a whole.


From deets_noospaam at web.de  Wed Mar  3 18:29:25 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:29:25 +0100
Subject: input from sdtin or file...
References: <4045a103$0$28147$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c25pon$9kb$01$1@news.t-online.com>


inf = sys.stdin
try:
    inf = open(sys.argv[1], "r")
except:
    pass
for line in inf:
    ...
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bob at redivi.com  Fri Mar  5 11:07:47 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:07:47 -0500
Subject: Running insecure python code
References: <hQq%b.41604$BD3.8026233@juliett.dax.net>
	<mailman.189.1077849062.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<2004022623031275249%bob@redivicom>
	<sOO%b.41951$BD3.8059632@juliett.dax.net>
	<2004022718575516807%bob@redivicom>
	<slrnc4f6ep.2elv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <2004030511074775249%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-04 16:04:25 -0500, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 
'Kamikaze' Hughes) said:

> Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com>
> wrote on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:57:55 -0500:
>> You can try looking into PyPy or something.  In practice, an 
>> interpreter written in Python is probably going to be far too slow to 
>> be used for any sort of modern game.
> 
>   You could translate your more limited scripting language into Python,
> and then eval it.  This should be reasonably fast, and if you're careful
> not to pass unescaped strings from the player through to Python, it
> should be secure.
> 
>   For maximum fun, the limited scripting language should be a subset of
> Python.

You have to be awfully careful about resource consumption (long 
strings, infinite loops, etc)...

It wouldn't be trivial to do correctly, let's leave it at that.

-bob



From raims at dot.com  Sun Mar  7 13:19:02 2004
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:19:02 +0100
Subject: no inline comments
References: <f20ea932.0403071013.2d5e734c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s5ovemxbkt98$.13eip0ev07e55$.dlg@40tude.net>

In data 7 Mar 2004 10:13:46 -0800, Tomasz Stochmal ha scritto:

> One lacking feature is inline comments like in C /* this is comnment */
> 
> What is a chance of introducing it to next release of Python ?

What do you mean? You can use the triple quote:

"""
This is a multiline
inline comment
"""


-- 
Lawrence
"Avevo Halo, poi ? arrivato Zelda... e ho buttato Halo."


From nholtz at docuweb.ca  Sun Mar  7 15:25:27 2004
From: nholtz at docuweb.ca (Neal Holtz)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 12:25:27 -0800
Subject: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class
References: <c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1@posting.google.com>
	<639f17f8.0403070516.5f59c960@posting.google.com>
	<c2fbi2$m7g$2@online.de>
Message-ID: <639f17f8.0403071225.2e57ef94@posting.google.com>

Possibly.

As a previous poster mentioned, there were so many things wrong
with the example posted, that it was a bit difficult to know what
actually was attempted and what went wrong.  I *think* the OP
wanted private variables, and his attempt didn't work -- though again
the error would not have been what the OP said it was.  On a near
approximation of what I *think* was attempted, the error should be

   AttributeError: Myclass instance has no attribute '_Myclass__SYMTAB'

Of course, to get the nearest thing to private variables, you do

class Myclass:

    __SYMTAB = [ ]

    def __init__ ...

and the name mangling docs still explain why that works and the other didn't.


Uwe Grauer <news at grauer-online.de> wrote in message news:<c2fbi2$m7g$2 at online.de>...
> Neal,
> 
> question was: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class
> 
> Your answer is wrong in this context.
> 
> Uwe
> 
> Neal Holtz wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Because of 'Private name mangling' (identifiers beginning with '__' and not ending
> > in '__' are considered private to the class) ?
> > 
> > See
> >                http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/ref/atom-identifiers.html


From hugh at brokenpipefilms.com  Fri Mar 19 05:59:58 2004
From: hugh at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 02:59:58 -0800
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
Message-ID: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>

I'm calling a command from within a python script and I need to be
able to both catch the output (stdout and stderr) from it and also
have the PID (so that I can kill it)

I can do one or other of these, but I can't find any way to do them
both at the same time.

So far, I've got the following options:


To get the output from the command:

>>> fdin, fdout, fderr = os.popen3(command)


Or to get the PID so that I can kill it:

>>> pid = os.spawnvp(os.P_NOWAIT, command.split()[0], command.split())


I've tried doing the following to grab stderr (I only need stderr, not
stdout in this case)

>>> fderr = os.pipe()
>>> sys.stderr = fderr
>>> pid = os.spawnvp(os.P_NOWAIT, command.split()[0], command.split())

But this doesn't seem to help.... It still just outputs stderr to the
terminal and when I try to do fderr.read(1) I don't get anything...

Any help would be very welcome


Hugh Macdonald


From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Thu Mar  4 20:37:47 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:37:47 +0100
Subject: maximum element?
In-Reply-To: <c2874u$sa5$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr> <c2874u$sa5$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <c28lld$926$2@bagan.srce.hr>

JCM wrote:

> reduce(lambda x, y: (x, y)[x < y], list)
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.

Actually, I thought that the 'better' way would be using a lambda 
function but then again, I was waaay wrong :)))

Thanks, all :)


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 28 00:16:11 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 05:16:11 GMT
Subject: Combinatorics of dual-language use
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>	<106alaf403jgs54@corp.supernews.com>	<c44ine$ad6$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<106bl0t31fub51f@corp.supernews.com> <406621F0.3020903@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <406660A6.D6A96DF9@doe.carleton.ca>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> 
> Neither Pyrex nor Inline::C are going to be great for C++. They were
> both created by C programmers for C programmers (I'd like to see this
> change about Pyrex some day). BOOST::Python, on the other hand, is
> probably a good fit.


I just checked out Boost (visited there before based on a pointer
by Scott Meyers, author of a book on the STL).  I wasn't quite
prepared to put the time into getting to know libraries at
that time, and I really needed to get to know basic standard
C++ library before delving into expansions of them, but the
example for the python interface looks very cool.  My current
use of a "P..." type scripting language, though, wouldn't be to
replace my matlab wrapper around C++ (the main engine until I
graduate).  It would be to mulch data to get it in a palatable
form for the engine code.  It's good to know about the python
interface, though, for future investigation.  Thanks.

Fred


From kschnee at xepher.net  Tue Mar 23 02:23:11 2004
From: kschnee at xepher.net (kschnee at xepher.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:23:11 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need Help Using py2exe
Message-ID: <3346.63.184.9.35.1080026591.squirrel@xepher.net>

[Sorry if this is a duplicate message.]

Hi. I've got a neat artificial intelligence project I want to distribute
as an EXE. I'm using Python, Pygame, and Numeric. My problem is: When I
use py2exe, I'm told "The following modules appear to be missing: AppKit,
Foundation, dotblas, objc." And then my EXE crashes with a "segmentation
fault." I tried the command:

python setup.py py2exe --ignores [those modules]

It then compiles w/o complaint, but the EXE still crashes. The setup.py is
very simple:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(console=["NissIslandDemo.py"])

What do I need to do to make my program into a working EXE?

Thanks for any help.

-Kris

PS. The line that triggers the seg. fault is one that loads a font for
rendering with pygame.font. I *was* able to build a working EXE of a
simpler program that "imports" nothing but the string module and does only
text and data-structure manipulation, no graphics.



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Mar  3 15:10:29 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:10:29 -0600
Subject: NT service (setting Description string)
References: <jJmdnfpaDewojtjdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <pbydnaiOTJYpptvdRVn-hg@comcast.com>

I found a way to do this that seems to make
sense.  You can modify the Description in
the registry using _winreg.  The value
is located at:

HMLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\<servicename>

I then installed the code below in the main
program of the service (that gets executed
when the service is installed).  This way
the registry gets "fixed" every time the
service is installed or removed.  Seems to
work pretty well.

Thanks for the input from everyone.

Larry Bates


if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    import _winreg
    #
    #  Following line handles install/remove/start/stop commands from the
command line
    #
    win32serviceutil.HandleCommandLine(AFRservice)
    try: cmd=sys.argv[1].upper()
    except: sys.exit()

    if cmd == 'INSTALL':
        print "Calling win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry for AFR
Application"

win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR','C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win
32\servicemanager.pyd',
                                            'Application')

        #
        # Update the description of this service in the registry
        #

#---------------------------------------------------------------------
        # Open registry at the proper key

#---------------------------------------------------------------------
        regkey='SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AFR'
        key=_winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, regkey, 0,
_winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
        description='AFR provides automated routing for inbound faxes that
are ' \
                    'received by Castelle Faxpress fax server.  Faxes are
converted ' \
                    'to .PDF files and routed via SMTP email to users based
on ' \
                    'routing rules.'

        _winreg.SetValueEx(key, 'Description', 0, _winreg.REG_SZ,
description)

    elif cmd == 'REMOVE':
        print "Calling win32evtlogutil.RemoveSourceFromRegistry for AFR
Application"
        win32evtlogutil.RemoveSourceFromRegistry('AFR','Application')

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
news:jJmdnfpaDewojtjdRVn-sQ at comcast.com...
> Anybody know what variable I need to define in my
> class to set the long description that shows up
> in the Services control panel applet?
>
> _svc_name_         holds the short name
> _svc_display_name_ holds the long name
> _svc_?????_        holds the description
>
> Thanks, Larry
>
>




From laotzu at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 19:26:07 2004
From: laotzu at pobox.com (Mathieu Fenniak)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:26:07 GMT
Subject: State of Python scripting on Mac OS X?
References: <BC8786FC.F36%franga@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <406225e0@news.nucleus.com>

On 2004-03-24 16:42:04 -0700, Francis Avila <franga at shentel.net> said:
> 
> So I guess I'm asking if anyone knowledgeable can point me in the right
> direction or tell me the current state of Python for AppleScript-ing.  If
> there's a project that's building a "complete" OSA scripting component 
for
> Python, I might be interested in participating.

Python currently supports scripting through OSA very well.  The support is 
not too well documented and can take a bit of getting used to, though.  The 
interfaces are not the simplest they could be, but they work very well.

I've written to starter articles ragaring OSA scripting that might be 
useful:
  http://stompstompstomp.com/weblog/technical/2003-09-22
  http://stompstompstomp.com/weblog/technical/2004-02-05

It's hard to find more information on using OSA with Python.  I was able to 
scrape together enough to get it working, but I've never found a great 
resource.  But, after the Python interface is figured out, the Script 
Editor application provides enough insight into individual applications to 
work.

Hope this helps.




From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Wed Mar 31 19:39:20 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:39:20 -0700
Subject: Modifying Entry size
References: <8b352861.0403310741.78ba64e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406B641E.1B7E3F54@pobox.com>

Fouff wrote:
> I'm trying to modify manually the size of a tkinter Entry .
> Especialy the width (in pixel for my calc), not in character as the
> width property of the widget.

That's not directly supported, but you can try this:
Create a Frame, and pack or grid it in the place where you're currently
putting the Entry.  Give the frame explicit width= and height= options,
and call .pack_propagate(0) on it so that it ignores the size of its
children.  Now create your Entry inside that frame, and pack it with the
fill and expand options turned on.
	Jason Harper


From domma at procoders.net  Wed Mar  3 16:49:27 2004
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:49:27 +0100
Subject: chinese codecs mit py2exe
Message-ID: <c25jt0$utn$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I build successfully different COM servers with py2exe. In my setup.py I
have something like this:

opts = {
    "py2exe" : {
        "includes" : ["encodings","encodings.*"],
        "packages" : ["encodings"],
        }
    }

This works fine with the standard encodings but seems to ignore the chinese
codecs I have installed. Can somebody tell me, which includes and packages
are required to get the chinese encodings to work.

regards,
Achim






From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar  6 05:13:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:13:20 +0100
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file
References: <mailman.54.1078564978.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2c880$sst$01$1@news.t-online.com>

dont bother wrote:

> I have this dictionary output as per the format I
> desired :
> index : value
 
> However, I want to write this to a file, instead of
> just printing out to the std output.

> for i, v in enumerate(dct):
>     print i,":",v

Here's how to print to a file instead of stdout:

dest = file("tmp.txt", "w")
for i, v in enumerate(dct):
    print >> dest, i, ":", v
dest.close()

Peter


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_  Sun Mar 21 21:16:05 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:16:05 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <105rush64n1trba@news.supernews.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<105rush64n1trba@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Z1s7c.34911$Z25.705965@wagner.videotron.net>

John Roth wrote:
> I personally think that self not only should be a keyword,
> it should not be among the parameters at all. However, I
> seem to be in a distinct minority about that.

But how could that be changed/introduced?

> However, I think you've got class methods mixed up with
> static methods. Class methods require the first parameter
> to be the class (sometimes spelled klas for some reason),
> while static methods are the ones that don't have either an
> instance or a class as the first parameter.

Ok, I wrote static method everywhere in my message and changed for class 
method after reading the PEP... so my first idea was right;)

Regards,

Nicolas


From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Mar  4 11:58:58 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 08:58:58 -0800
Subject: exiting Python
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403040858.666153a1@posting.google.com>

I think exiting Python with 'Ctrl-Z plus Return' is awkward. Why not
something simpler like ':q[uit]'. Since ':q' is currently invalid
syntax, I don't think using it to quit Python would break anything.


From mmaru at visiontv.ca  Mon Mar  8 14:27:29 2004
From: mmaru at visiontv.ca (Maru, Mulugeta)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:27:29 -0500
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
Message-ID: <5E62CFE4CB546F44ADCABD9852C2C8EC048CA7@email.toronto.visiontv.ca>

I have not done a web development yet and would like to know the best way to go about doing it. What is xml-rpc? Sorry I am green on this subject. Someone suggested to use webware. I am hoping to buy or get an online tutorial material on Python/MySQL web development.

Please share your opinion. Thank you.

-MM

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:10 AM
To: Maru, Mulugeta
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python Database Driven Web Development


You'll probably want to look at mod_python and MySQLdb. I like to 
sepperate appliation logic from UI logic using xml-rpc but that's only 
needed if you want the ability to have multiple front-ends or want a 
clean sepperation.

>What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL to develop a database driven intranet? Do I need to use any framework or application server? If I do please kindly direct me where to go.
>
VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television network.



From up209 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Mar 19 08:36:53 2004
From: up209 at cam.ac.uk (Umesh Persad)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:36:53 +0000
Subject: Python for Information Visualization
Message-ID: <c3et45$h8t$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Hi All,
  I am looking for a platform to rapidly develop
software for Information Visualization. Since
I am working in an academic environment, I want
to be able to develop applications quickly with minimal
learning and problems.

I was looking to python as a solution. However, before
I jump right in, I was wondering about the capabilities
of Python for interactive graphical programming. I am
also using Processing (http://processing.org/) which is good
for quick visualization mockups.

Are there any packages for python that will allow me to develop
interactive applications quickly? Things like having the capability
to draw whatever shapes I want, changing the GUI to a custom look and
feel, support for mouse and keyboard interaction, and the capability to 
handle large amounts of data are important.

Any advice in this regard would be most appreciated.

Thanks for all the help!
Umesh Persad


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Mar 11 09:41:21 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:41:21 +0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <8bu0501telhent4pe2ns95dinaana19fmr@4ax.com>


[Cameron]
> Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named function; 

[Kyler]
> How do you cleanly do that?
> 	foo = range(-10, 10)
> 	my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
> 	bar = map(my_op, foo)

foo = range(-10, 10)
def my_op(x):
    return float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
bar = map(my_op, foo)

...did I misunderstand?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From kbk at shore.net  Sat Mar 20 16:41:12 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:41:12 GMT
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<jbpo50di1jjqj92vk15notkjge311llg70@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <877jxftcw7.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

Patrick Useldinger <p at trick.lu> writes:

> That is what worries me with OpenBSD. They patch everything in order to
> make things more secure, which is their main focus. But doesn't this
> bring a lot of compatibility issues along? 

The patching to Python is minimal.  They don't patch "everything".  The
base system is audited and unique to OpenBSD but the ports are not.

Many patches are like the one I mentioned: needed to resolve issues
like an incompatibility in the directory tree or libraries.

I agree that the goal is to use the minimum patch necessary to get the
port to work, and then to push whatever possible back upstream so it
can be eliminated in the future.  The distros are the field test for
the applications, and it's common for the patches to be applied there
first.  But the more patches you have, the harder it is to maintain.

If OpenBSD should patch a security issue in the port, wouldn't you
think that the upstream maintainer would want to incorporate it?  When
he does, the patch is no longer required.  If he doesn't, wouldn't you
want the hole fixed in the distro?

> If you compile "plain" Python from www.python.org with the patched
> gcc, who guarantees that it will work?  If you installed a patched
> Python, how can you be certain no bugs have been added?  In any
> case, you're running a configuration that's less tested than the
> "original".

This is true with all distros.  Have you ever looked at the patches
applied by RedHat and Debian?  Have you ever studied the Debian
patches to the Linux kernel?  OpenBSD is hardly the worst.

In many cases the patches applied by the distros are caused by
unresponsive upstream maintainers and/or delays in implementing the
patches fed upstream.

If you don't like the situation, something like Linux from Scratch is
alway an option, but I think you will find that you will be patching the
pristine sources to get a working system :-)

It's the packagers who have the responsibility to make the package
work.  Packagers are carefully screened by responsible distros.

-- 
KBK


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 20 14:23:23 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 14:23:23 -0500
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <c3hknq$2864jv$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Jon Perez  <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
>apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
>to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
>files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
>JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.

Really?  I'm sorry, I have just a tiny bit of difficulty believing that,
considering all the stories i've heard about Java not being completely
cross-platform and cross-version.  I am sure that simple cases work as
you describe, but I'd like a cite for Java working as you describe in
general.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar  3 22:47:00 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:47:00 +1300
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
In-Reply-To: <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <c268rn$1q8l0e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Here's an alternative solution using recursion:

def di(prefix, suffix, result):
   head = suffix[0]
   tail = suffix[1:]
   prefix2 = prefix + [head]
   if not tail:
     result.append(prefix2)
   else:
     di(prefix2, tail, result)
     di(prefix2 + ['-'], tail, result)

def insert_dashes(items):
   result = []
   di([], items, result)
   return result

print insert_dashes(['a'])
print insert_dashes(['a', 'b'])
print insert_dashes(['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'])

cosc353% python insdash.py
[['a']]
[['a', 'b'], ['a', '-', 'b']]
[['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'], ['a', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'], 
['a', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 
'-', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd']]


-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From gandreas at no.reply  Thu Mar 25 17:51:21 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:51:21 -0600
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<mailman.429.1080249113.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gandreas-EC2983.16512125032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <mailman.429.1080249113.742.python-list at python.org>,
 Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> wrote:

> Glenn Andreas wrote:
> > Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing something 
> > like:
> > 
> >    myHandlers = {
> >       "click" : def(x,y):
> >                      print "click at x,y"
> >       "enter" : def():
> >                      print "mouse entered"
> >       "exit"  : def():
> >                      print "mouse exited"
> >    }
> 
> I just thought of a better way to write this.
> 
>      myHandlers = {}
>      myHandlers["click"] = def(x,y):
>          print "click at x,y"
>      myHandlers["enter"] = def():
>          print "mouse entered"
>      myHandlers["exit"] = def():
>          print "mouse exited"
> 
> I think that's pretty nice.

That would work, but suddenly we've got a rule that "dictionaries can 
specify all their keys and values, except only one of which can be an 
'inlined' anonymous function, so if you need more, you need to add the 
rest manually".

Perhaps, if we go with the "foo = def()" being the same as "def foo()":

myHandlers = {}
def myHandlers["click"](x,y):
   print "clicked at x,y"

.. at which point my fingers revolted and refused to type anything 
further example in such stylistic abomination (which is one of the 
reasons I also hate that form of decorators, since it looks like you are 
binding the value of a dictionary).


OTOH, if you look at NewtonScript (which was prototyped based, BTW) you 
would define the methods for an object exactly like one would create any 
old frame (which is pretty much the same as a dictionary, but is also an 
object - there was no difference between the two):

anObject := {
   click: func(x,y)
         Print("click at x,y");
   enter: func()
         Print("mouse entered");
   exit: func()
         Print("mouse exitted");
};

(and in the above, "click", "enter", "exit" are all symbols, which are 
more like Smalltalk symbols than python strings but it was trivial to 
convert between the two)

Still, all of that worked because NewtonScript had statements and 
expressions all handled by the same form of delimination.  In fact, 
statements were expressions, so you could do "min = if x < y then x else 
y;" which mixes expressions (the RHS of the assignment) with the 
if-statement which has expressions for bodies of then & else clauses 
(instead of more complex statements).


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 10 07:52:46 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:52:46 +0100
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2mrga$t7g$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c2n32u$nu6$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Aahz wrote:

> Your arguments are persuasive, but I disagree with your conclusions.
> Given that almost every programming language has something like "print"
> built into it, we can't afford to drop that name.  I think you need to
> find a path that permits mutation from a reserved word.

Yes. The only ambiguity I can think of would be tuple literals.

> The other issue is that you're wrong to make print() a function.
> Instead, it should be a callable object.  That way, the default print
> object has state:
> 
>     print(a, b, c)
>     print.set_output(my_file)
>     print(a, b, c)
>     print(x, y, z)
>     print.set_separator(None)
>     print("The value is: ", 3)

My first thought was to add separator and newline attributes to file objects
and keep print just like it is, but the print object is more flexible. You
could easily add further extensions, e. g.

print.set_format(float, "%.2f")
print.set_format(str, "%r")

I'm not sure what to do with different printers operating on the same file -
most likely sys.stdout. Should they share (some) state like today's
softspace, should they operate as if they were the only one or should
multiple printers be disallowed?

Another thing that is not addressed is how to suppress newline. I can think
of

1 a method: print.write(1, 2)
2 a keyword argument print(1, 2, newline=False)
3 a special marker object: print(1, 2, suppress_newline)
4 make no newline the default

I tend to option 1 but don't particularly like it either.

Peter 

PS: Actually, when I started to write I thought I knew how it should be
done...



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 22 17:18:00 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:18:00 -0600
Subject: name of 'name'
References: <W5G7c.878632$ts4.740941@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <ouOdneoz7fGL-8LdRVn_iw@comcast.com>

Not exactly sure I understand the question, but here
goes:

If you are talking about a class, you can get the
classname from :

self.__class__.__name__

Hope info helps.

-Larry

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
news:W5G7c.878632$ts4.740941 at pd7tw3no...
> Is there a built-in name for the function that returns an object's name?
That
> is, for
>
> "  lambda x: [y for y in globals().keys() if globals()[y]==x][0]   "  ?
>
> Muchas gracias.
>
> Peace
>
>




From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Sat Mar 13 18:44:06 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:44:06 GMT
Subject: Python & the job market
Message-ID: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job market looks
for programming using Python. I really don't see many jobs (probably one or
two) that require Python experience at all. Most DBA and SA positions that I
have seen require Perl and most development position require Java or C++ so
how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little to no chance
that an employer will require the use of Python or consider using Python
over other programming languages such as Java?

kbass




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 12:10:08 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 09:10:08 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.179.1079764920.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403200910.54ba9bd9@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.179.1079764920.742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Python is neither C++ nor Java.  It's data model is quite different.
> Imported jargon is meaningless to those not familiear with is.  Adding the
> word 'static' to 'class attribute' or 'class variable' adds nothing since
> there is no differentiation from a hypothetical 'non-static' class
> attribute.
> ...
> 'class statiticity'? is meaningless to me.  Actually, 'staticmethod' is
> something of a misnomer since the effect of staticmethod(function) is to
> mark the function as one to *not* be wrapped as a method but to be left
> alone as a function, just like function attributes of instances.
> 'unwrapped' might have been better.  I think there was an overstriving for
> parallelism with 'classmethod', which is an accurate and meaningful term
> (the contrast being with 'instance method').

Take a look at Erik Max Francis: (any surprise?)
 
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3DF40EDA.A4A514C4%40alcyone.com

And also search in Python mail list for "class-static" and you will
find many people in Python using the same terminology, even in PEP. It
may be meaningless to you, but that does not mean it is meaningless to
other more meaningful people. :)

As I said, the original poster made no mistake there.

Hung Jung


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Mar 14 18:33:46 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:33:46 -0800
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
In-Reply-To: <4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
	<mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list@python.org>
	<4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4054f3eb$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Colin Brown wrote:

> "Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list at python.org...
> ... time.sleep() should perform the same on all platforms but would
 > rather the sleep(0) for negative args because ...
Surely not __all__ platforms.  Certainly the BDFL's machine needs full
access to time machine controls.  I can see restricting the use of
negative arguments to authorized members of the PSU (if it actually
existed)....

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From paul at boddie.net  Thu Mar  4 05:41:48 2004
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 02:41:48 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0403040241.60eb33a4@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xad2x5wfm.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) writes:
> > Like everyone else who has replied, I seriously question how much
> > experience you have with the multitude of Python web environments
> > available.
> 
> The very existence of a "multitude" of Python web environments is a
> serious shortcoming of Python as a PHP replacement.

As a PHP replacement, I'd argue that a number of existing frameworks
are good and obvious enough - cue developer adverts for Spyce,
CherryPy, etc. ;-) With the PSP support in mod_python, I'd argue that
the bar has been lowered further. But in the short to medium term,
expect better application portability between frameworks - the need to
run various popular applications in different environments is making
itself increasingly evident.

[...]

> > We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
> > for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
> > obvious choice, and officially endorsed?
> 
> That's precisely the situation Python is in now!

Really? At the fundamental level, the DB-API is pretty well
standardised, and there's a collection of well-written modules that
mostly adhere to it. Object-relational mappings aren't standardised,
but I haven't seen any widely-followed standards implemented in any
technology.

[...]

> The site that I worked on spent TWO MILLION U.S. DOLLARS on its web
> server hardware.  OK, it used Java servlets that are even slower than
> Python, but you have to understand that there's a point after which
> you can no longer pretend that hardware is free.

Yes, but then those responsible for religiously stipulating "full fat"
application/database server technologies tend to have big budgets
anyway. There's a point after which you could be horrified about the
money being spent on hardware, but hopefully it isn't your budget
draining away at that point.

Paul


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 17:56:49 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:56:49 -0500
Subject: How to make this speed up
References: <mailman.142.1080683661.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkptauymdq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "myang" <myang at clarku.edu> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have thousands of points in 3D space, and I want to calcuate the distance
> between each other of them. I do the calculation with the following code.
>
> def distance(a,b):
>     sum = 0
>     for i in range(len(a)):
>         sum += (a[i]-b[i])**2
>     return sqrt(sum)
>
> for i in range(len(plist)):
>     for j in range(i+1,len(plist)):
>         d = distance(plist[i],plist[j])
>
> But this is damn slow. Do you have any suggestion to speed it up? If I write
> the distance function in C extension, how faster will it be? (For the time
> being, I don't know how to write C extension yet :(

Use numarray or Numeric, and use arrays for your points. Also, do you
need the distance, or will the square of the distance do? (that'll
save you a sqrt).

import numarray as NA

def distance_between_points(plist):
    # if plist was a list of N points in d dimensions, p is an array of size (N,d)
    p = NA.asarray(plist)
    N, d = p.shape
    # dist2 is a (N,N) array of squared distance
    dist2 = NA.zeros((N, N), type=p.type())
    for i in range(d):
        dist2 += NA.subtract.outer(p[:,i],p[:,i])**2
    return NA.sqrt(dist2)

This should be almost as fast as writing your own C extension (and
much easier...)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From beliavsky at aol.com  Tue Mar  2 09:49:31 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 06:49:31 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

>    It actually compares the speed of integers large enough to need 64 bits
> of precision where Fortran can use a 64 bit integer and Python uses an
> unbounded integer. The test can be sped up in two ways, first by using
> floating point (which is fixed length in Python) and by using Psyco. On my
> machine:
> 
> Original test: 245 seconds
> Using floats: 148 seconds
> Using psyco with integers: 69 seconds
> Using psyco with floats: 18.4 seconds
> 
>    Therfore gaining a speed up of 13 times. This leads to Fortran likely
> remaining 22 times faster.
> 
> from psyco.classes import *
> import psyco
> 
> def xx():
>     i = 1.0
>     j = 0.0
>     while i < 100000000.0:
>        j = j + i
>        i = i + 1
>     print int(j)
> 
> psyco.profile()
> 
> xx()
> 
>    Neil

Thanks. I am going to learn about Psyco. In this case, I assume that
doing the computations with floating point numbers and finally
converting the result to int gives the same values as the original
integer calculation. In other cases, integer arithmetic will need to
be done with integers to ensure correct results.

Python is supposed to be easy (and in general I agree that it is), but
your solution requires some knowledge of

(1) how integer and floating point calculations are done (which many
novices do not have)
(2) when Psycho can speed things up

and the final result is still much slower than Fortran. For the
Fortran program, the only "trick" is the use of integer*8.


From pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 05:32:58 2004
From: pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com (o'seally)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 02:32:58 -0800
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
	<4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<86b5da9a.0403180001.3115ff55@posting.google.com>
	<405ad249$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <86b5da9a.0403250232.14caab96@posting.google.com>

Ruud de Jong <ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl> wrote in message news:<405ad249$0$41762$5fc3050 at dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>...
> o'seally schreef:
> > i'm Not trying to find a solution for a python problem, i'm in fact
> > posting a solution to the notorius "ld.so.1: fatal ImportError:
> > ld.so.1 No such file or directory" error that many people are
> > complaining about on the newsgroups/internet. when they search on
> > google for this kind of error, they'll find a link to my
> > comments/advice/suggestions. i would think that would be very helpful
> > to them.
> 
> Well,
> 
> This was not obvious from a first reading. I read your original post
> again, and basically you say:
> 
>    Problem: fatal ImportError: xx.so.n No such file or directory
>    Solution: make the file xx.so.n visible through LD_LIBRARY_PATH
> 
> Duh. This is essentially identical to the solutions that have been
> offered time and again whenever this or a similar problem is reported.
> Your post differs from most others because:
> * it was not in response to a problem, making it more difficult to
>    discover the intention of the post;
> * you needed over 100 lines of text to provide this solution;
> * the liberal use of CAPITALS (which gives your post a rather
>    spam-like appearance);
> * the digression on irrelevant subjects (why bring free or open source
>    software in the discussion?)
> 
> Because of the low signal/noise ratio, I did not recognize this
> to be a solution for a problem that happens from time to time.
> 
> On the contents of your post: you suggest to create symbolic links
> in one of the directories in LD_LIBRARY_PATH to make the required
> files visible, instead of appending their directory
> to LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Be aware that symbolic links make the
> files visible to *all* applications -- you may not always want that.
> Manipulating the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable gives you
> more flexibility, and you also don't need root privileges to do so.
> You can also choose to manipulate LD_LIBRARY_PATH via a shellscript
> wrapper for the actual program you want to run; this is especially
> useful when there are naming collisions.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ruud.


==>it was not in response to a problem, making it more
==>difficult to discover the intention of the post;

google/usenet groups are Not only for *solving problems* or nagging
people about this and then that, and then that, etc. newsgroups are
also useful for sharing information Openly. always bear in mind that
what you find useless and totally unnecessary can come out to be the
most useful advice/opinion for *someone else*, ..cuz even if it might
be infested with a lot of junk, it might contain just One Word of
advice that someone has been needing for many years!
the intention of this post is therefore simple:.. should someone hit
this problem and start searching on google/teoma/etc, he is very
likely to be interested in any place/page that contains the words
equivalent to those in the error he saw. most pages DON'T have enough
detailed info about this error. check it out yourself, try and search
for pages with Detailed info about this specific error and you'll find
very few.

many times even when LD_LIBRARY_PATH is set **and exported** this
problem will still manifest. check the posts around and you'll find
many people that say that they **Have** set and exported
LD_LIBRARY_PATH and it gave no luck. the reason is because it's hard
to tell when ld is running and calling/loading many .so files which in
turn load more .so files ..it's hard to track whether this variable is
up-to-date in all these calls. in fact, many times the updated
LD_LIBRARY_PATH does Not seem to maintain its updated value through
nested/stacked calls when ld transcends through calls.


==>you needed over 100 lines of text to provide this solution;

of course i need over 100 lines. does this mean those who benefit from
my solution will have to type a bash/unix script of 100 lines? ..No
no, they'll simply create symbolic links. but then why did i Not just
type one line and say "just create symbolic links" ?  well, many
newbies Don't necessarily have the in-depth knowledge of doing this
neatly/smoothly. some of them would ask me ...symbolic links to what?
many developers are Not sys admins and therefore they may Not be that
quick/up-to-speed with symbolic links. i realize i Can't cater for
every layman, but at least i should go as low/grassroot as i can.


==>the liberal use of CAPITALS (which gives your post
==>a rather spam-like appearance);

i apologize for my liberal use of caps, sorry for the liberal use of
caps, i simply had to ensure that words like *not*, *can't*, etc are
Not easily skipped by those fast readers.  but a person who has spent
nights battling with an ld problem will consider anything that seems
to talk about the error he's battling with. he'll try anything to get
that error fixed, and he'll keep searching even in spam-like places.
well, at least it **appears spam-like**, it is Not quite spam.


==>Duh. This is essentially identical to the solutions
==>that have been offered time and again whenever this or
==>a similar problem is reported.

once again read my post slowly/carefully. the advice about
LD_LIBRARY_PATH is Not what my opinion is centered around. i clearly
stated at the beginning of it that it is someone else's opinion (John
Hunter's opinion). there is a place that's clearly marked as "my
opinion" in addition to John's opinion. my opinion is centered around
symbolic links. now i want you to find out (search the net) and
discover for yourself how many posts are *identical* to my opinion. to
your suprise, you will Not find many. Do it now.  ..on the other hand,
talking about identicals ..you'd be surprised to find out how many
places on the net have an **Identical** copy of the unix man pages,
you'll be truly amazed :-)


==>Be aware that symbolic links make the files visible to
==>*all* applications -- you may not always want that, bla bla bla.

once again in my original post i said ...
as a final-FINAL Note: i'm not responsible for any files that get
deleted or that disappear from your system when you use my advice cuz
they way i see it, when u use my advice you're somehow
hacking/overriding your system's config. u do this solely at your own
discretion/risk. you came here without my invitation, and you're
reading this without my invitation either. i did Not send u this info
by email, etc. so just keep me out of it.


==>the digression on irrelevant subjects (why bring 
==>free or open source software in the discussion?)

i did Not bring these into the discussion. they're the most
insignificant words in my post. but why didn't i leave them out then??
..well, i have to use words when i type. what would u say if i said
your liberal use of the word 'appearance' in your reply above is a
digression from this topic to something irrelevant? wouldn't you
quickly turn around and say to me ...the word 'appearance' in your
reply above was simply an insignificant word. but what if i picked out
that specific word and dwelled on it? wouldn't you find me
UNbelievable? well, man you have to use words when you type/post. are
you aware that even the word 'you' can be isolated and criticized as a
digression by anyone who reads your post and *chooses* to do so.
___________________________________________
Moses Motlhale - Solutions Architect
24th Century Solutions, South Africa.


From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 22:11:39 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:11:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Almost Done: Need some Help in Generating FEATURE VECTORS
In-Reply-To: <c2b29p$7kj$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20040306031139.25048.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Josiah and Others,
Thanks a Ton.
I could figure out my work with your help.
However, I am stuck up with a little thing now:

Dictionary: I want to associate each word in the
dictionary with an index. Ex:
right now I have:

viagra
play

etc
I want to associate each word in the dictionary with  
an index like this:

1 viagra
2 play

I tried with enumerate did not work.

Problem 2: I want to create feature vectors of the
type

[1 1:<value> 10:<value> ...18:<value>]

I am able to compute the right value. I have to
associate this value with the index in the dictionary.

I want some help regarding framing this feature vector
specifically adding '[' ,']' and inserting a value 1
or 0 which should be from the user input. And a index:
value pair.


The loop that checks the word with the dictionary  is
here:

A body of the program is here:

import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt



#load up external dictionary:
words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
dct = {}
for i in xrange(len(words)):
     dct[words[i]] = i

#make vector:
vector = {}

fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

#a = float(len(fp))

#a = float(len(words_in_body))


#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()

a = float(len(msg))
print a

for i in msg:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1
         except:
             vector[i] = 1

for i in vector:
    vector[i] /= a
    print i, vector[i]






--- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:
> #First, normalize the line breaks:
> email_source = email_source.replace('\r\n',
> '\n').replace('\r', '\n')
> 
> #toss the headers:
> pos = email_source.find('\n\n')
> if pos != -1:
>      email_body = email_source[pos:]
> else:
>      email_body = email_source
> 
> #clean out html:
> (use the method given
> http://flangy.com/dev/python/striphtml.html )
> 
> #get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make
> it all lowercase:
> lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
> fixed_body = email_body.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
> '+lower+133*' ')
> 
> words_in_body = fixed_body.split()
> 
> #load up external dictionary:
> words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
> dct = {}
> for i in xrange(len(words)):
>      dct[words[i]] = i
> 
> #make vector:
> vector = {}
> a = float(len(words_in_body))
> for i in words_in_body:
>      if i in dct:
>          try:
>              vector[i] += 1
>          except:
>              vector[i] = 1
> 
> for i in vector:
>      vector[i] /= a
> 
> 
> 
> I know the above doesn't fit with what you have, but
> you should be able 
> to adapt it.
> 
>   - Josiah
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 20 07:26:29 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:26:29 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105oe5k5ovugi5e@news.supernews.com>


"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef at posting.google.com...
> > "Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
> > > Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python
lost
> > > class static variables values.
> ---------------------------------
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:<105mmlt1ld7jvb9 at news.supernews.com>...
> > There is no such thing as a static variable in Python.
> ---------------------------------
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
> > mean.
> ---------------------------------
>
> A little hyphen would have made a whole world of difference. The
> original poster was referring to "class-static variable", and he did
> mention it explicitly.

Yes, he did.

> That's the standard jargon in languages like C++ or Java.

So what? This is Python, not C++, Java or any other language.

> "Static" here does not mean "function-static", which in
> C++ applies to a variable that belongs to the function's static scope
> instead of the dynamic scope (I.e., function-static variables are not
> destroyed: they keep their value upon exit of the function scope, and
> the next time you enter the function, you get the previous value.)
> "Class-static" means something else: it marks the ownership by a
> class, not by a particular instance.
>
> To be fair, the same jargon persists in Python when it comes to
> staticmethod(): staticmethod in Python 2.3 has nothing to do with
> "function staticity", but rather it refers to "class statiticity": a
> staticmethod belongs to the class. Given this terminology in Python, I
> think it is perfect natural to refer to class-level variables as
> "class-static" variables.
>
> "Static" is an meaning-overloaded word. The original poster did NOT
> make a mistake. I think the two people that replied simply skipped the
> word "class" in "class static variable".

Static generally means "something that does not change." The fact
that C++ in particular abuses the word has no relevance.

For the record, I knew exactly what he wrote, and I did not
ignore the fact that he wrote "class-static." An object bound to
an identifier in a class is **not** static; it can be changed and
it frequently is. There is no way in the language of making it
static.

The reason he's getting the flack he's getting is because of
attitude. The documentation (which I quoted) clearly states
that what he's trying to do isn't supported. His response to Terry's
original attempt to help him see what was going on was
both rude and sarcastic; that kind of behavior simply isn't
acceptable on this newsgroup.

John Roth
>
> Hung Jung




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Sat Mar 13 04:13:28 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:13:28 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <20040313070750.53383.qmail@web8309.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20040313070750.53383.qmail@web8309.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B0F60981-74CE-11D8-B7A7-000A95909800@cern.ch>


On 13 Mar 2004, at 08:07, Premshree Pillai wrote:

> Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
> so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> vars" pragma to force variable declaration.

I'm no Perler ... but by reading a bit of documentation, I get the 
impression that you are a bit confused about what "use strict 'vars'" 
really does. It seems to be some mish-mash of concepts: it imposes the 
necessity to fully qualify names, to declare (the existence, not the 
type of) variables with "our", and does some control of scoping rules.

Whatever it does, it seems that "use strict 'vars'" has absolutely 
nothing to do with static typing.

So, I must ask you the same question as I asked Peter: "what do you 
understand 'static typing' to mean?"

> Is there something like it in Python?

No.

> Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> important requirement in a language?

No. Absolutely not. I think that an important requirement in a language 
is that it NOT *force* variable declaration. (Optional declaration is 
fine.)

I do think that it is an important requirement in a language that test 
suites be easily written in it. I also think that it is an important 
requirement of developers that they write comprehensive test suites as 
they develop their software. The test suites will catch ALL SORTS of 
errors (including those resulting from type errors). Static type 
systems, OTOH, catch only one, minor, class of errors (type errors), 
and do so at great cost.

Static typing catches even those type "errors" which would in no way 
prevent the program from running correctly. (Implicit static typing 
systems are much better in this respect than manifest ones.)

Static typing makes the language more inflexible, and makes it much 
more difficult to run incomplete programs. Why would I want to run an 
incomplete program? Well, during the *whole* development phase, a 
program is incomplete. Just think about that for a minute. And I would 
certainly like to run my programs during development to test them.

Your average C++ programmer is so happy when the compiler eventually 
complies his program without errors (even though it may signal 300 
warnings), that he is convinced that the program is correct. "I 
Suffered so much, and fixed so many errors to get this far. If the 
compiler, which is so pedantic and spotted all those errors, can't spot 
any more, then surely there _aren't_ any more errors in my program." 
And he thinks he has finished. He hasn't been able to run any tests so 
far (this is the first time that the program has complied), so the 
program is almost guaranteed to be bug-infested, but the thought of 
writing a test-suite at this point (if it would cross his mind - it 
won't; the complier has already told him that his program is 
error-free) would be so frightening that he would quickly dismiss it. 
If, however, he did try to write a test suite, then the third bug he'd 
find, would motivate him to make a tiny change which would make the 
static typing system reject his _whole_ program. He would then notice 
that the static type system forces a whole chain of changes upon him, 
extending into parts of the program which are in no way related to the 
part which he is actually trying to test, before allowing him to run 
the program again, in order to check that his fix works. That chain of 
changes would, of course, set off new chains of changes along its way, 
and those chains ... you get the picture.

I think that manifest static typing systems are great way of slowing 
down development, and ensuring less (sic) correct programs.

Variable declarations are usually just noise, which obfuscate the 
program, and make it a pain to write.




From RAV at mail.biomed.cas.cz  Mon Mar 15 03:49:14 2004
From: RAV at mail.biomed.cas.cz (RAV at mail.biomed.cas.cz)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:49:14 +0100
Subject: RAV AntiVirus scan results
Message-ID: <20040315084914.C796B23ED4@mail.biomed.cas.cz>


RAV AntiVirus for Linux i686 version: 8.3.2 (snapshot-20020108)
Copyright (c) 1996-2001 GeCAD The Software Company. All rights reserved.
Registered version for 2 domain(s).
Running on host: mail

-----------------------
 RAV Antivirus results
-----------------------

The infected file was saved to quarantine with name: 1079340553-RAV4354.
The file (part0002:yours.pif) attached to mail (with subject:Re: Here) sent by python-list at python.org to kucerova at biomed.cas.cz, 
is infected with virus: Win32/Netsky.D at mm.
Cannot clean this file.
The file was successfully deleted by RAV AntiVirus.
------------------------
this is a copy of the e-mail header:

Received: from biomed.cas.cz (d326ps.biomed.cas.cz [147.231.40.203])



Scan engine 8.11 () for i386.
Last update: Sun Mar 14 08:44:35 2004
Scanning for 92250 malwares (viruses, trojans and worms).

To get a free 60-days evaluation version of RAV AntiVirus v8
(yet fully functional) please visit:

   http://www.ravantivirus.com





From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Fri Mar 19 07:15:37 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:15:37 +0100
Subject: Zope with Python
In-Reply-To: <c3ennc$26ip36$1@ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3ennc$26ip36$1@ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3eo8e$ni8$1@ork.noris.net>

Heyho!

Holger Butschek wrote:
> Hy,
> 
> I'm using following code.
> 
> <dtml-in expr="sqlBestandGetKuerzel(KURZFORM='B',BEREICH='01')"> 
> B/<dtml-var RUBRIK>/<dtml-var expr="_.math.int(ANZAHL) + 1"> 
> </dtml-in>
int is a bulit-in function, you don't need math here.
[...]

> 
> Bye, Holger

HTH,
Wolfram



From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 23 02:38:27 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:38:27 -0700
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.230.1079954390.742.python-list@python.org>
	<blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu@4ax.com>
	<VUH7c.10541$re.750713@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<c3njeh$9ve$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <i4qv50509sgrq7ghhko7uqemitg6atqc3n@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:48:18 +0000 (UTC), JCM
<joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

>Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>> "David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>> news:blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu at 4ax.com...
>
>>> If we want to set variables in intermediate scopes, I would prefer a
>>> syntax like:
>>>
>>> b = 1
>>> def f():
>>> a = 2
>>> def g():
>>> global.f.a = 3
>
>Locals inside functions are unique to a function invocation (not the
>function object).  More than one may be active at any given time,
>either through recursion or by creating closures.

Oops.  This could get messy.  Let's not worry about *how* to do
intermediate scopes until we see a good use case for *why* we want to
do it.

-- Dave



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 10 12:18:18 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:18:18 -0500
Subject: Is there any example code to read WMA format?
References: <c2mf19$pck$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <c2nikr$o8d$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Phipps Xue" <phipps.xue at sap.com> wrote in message
news:c2mf19$pck$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de...
> I wanna write a programm that can write a WMA file's tags such as artist,
> year, genre and etc. Is there any example code in python to do that?

Did you check Google?  'Python WMA write tags' gets 900 hits to peruse.

tjr






From spisatus at coqui.net  Tue Mar 23 17:11:26 2004
From: spisatus at coqui.net (spisatus)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:11:26 -0400
Subject: creating lists question?
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>

Josiah,
Now I know I have a long way to go:O)

I'm not sure this is doing what I want it to do. In the example I gave I
want a new list call "aaa" another list called "bbb"... so I can append to
the new list  i.e., bbb.append().  It may be that your example does this but
it appears to be (with my limited knowledge) that it's creating a list of
lists, when all I want is a new isolated list.

Thanks again!!!!






"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c3q9mr$760$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
> > I'm trying to create a series of list from a loop is this possible? Let
me
> > give you an example:
> >
> > list1 = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]
> >
> > for element in list1:
> >   a = element
> >   a = []
> >
> > I want a new list created for every element in list1, how can I do this.
>
> Do you mean:
>
> lists = []
> for element in list1:
>      lists.append([element])
>
> Or using list comprehensions:
>
> lists = [[element] for element in list1]
>
>   - Josiah





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 22 05:42:21 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:42:21 -0800
Subject: Syntax of 'in' : searching a list for a string
References: <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405EC30D.66A48C2D@alcyone.com>

MarieR wrote:

> I want to check whether the string 'Remove' is present in a list
> 'supportList',
> but if I do
> 
> if ('Remove') in supportList:
> 
> or
> 
> if 'Remove' in supportList:
> 
> I get the error message
> 
> 'in ' requires character as left operand.

It likely means that supportList is not what you think it is.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ There's a reason why we / Keep chasing morning
    -- Sandra St. Victor


From mike at nospam.com  Fri Mar  5 18:12:04 2004
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:12:04 -0800
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
	<Mw72c.28836$UU.21652@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <c2b1g2$fdt$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeff Duffy wrote:
> Chad Haynes wrote:
>> I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

copy your .manifest file to a <new .exe name>.manifest

HTH,
Mike






From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Fri Mar 12 02:14:24 2004
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:14:24 +0100
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
In-Reply-To: <4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.279.1079027533.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c2ro0h$2sn$1@news.tue.nl>

Jason Harper wrote:

> You have two issues here:
> 
> 1. Don't use the quit method, instead just close your window.  Your QUIT
> button could perhaps use:
> 	command=self.destroy
> 
> 2. Don't call mainloop() if IDLE already has one running.  Try this:
> 
> import sys
> if "idlelib" not in sys.modules:
> 	root.mainloop()
> 
> 	Jason Harper

I think that this answer deserves a place in a cookbook recipe. I did 
not work with Tkinter for more than a year, but I remember that I 
struggled with exactly the same issues and more or less experimentally 
reached this solution.

thanks for the clarification!

regards Gerrit

-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 04:52:11 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 10:52:11 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <tyfisgx6wfo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> writes:

> I've given some Python courses, and the first reaction when showing
> a class with some methods is something like "so I guess when the
> first parameter is not named 'self' it makes a class method?".

Just as a point of information:

I teach Python courses ... hands-on interactive style ... class size =
12 ... I've given 8 of these so far ... I have _never_ had this
reaction. (80% of the students have previous C++ and/or Java
experience, and usually someone asks "How do I do class/static
methods?".)

Maybe the reason nobody believes this is because, fairly early on in
the treatment of classes, I point out that there is nothing special
about the name "self", but I usually ask the students what they make
of it, before offering any of my own comments.

> If easing the creation of class methods is so important, I would
> prefer a more radical approach with a end result that would be more
> intuitive to newcomers:

While I agree that there is a lot to be said for Python being guided
by the principle of least surprise, I would argue against letting
Python be shaped by the expectations of people whose expectations have
been moulded by Java and C++, as those expectations are typically
fundamentally flawed, and certainly inappropriate to Python. (For
example, most (Java and C++ people, and hence generally most) people
expect there to be access control, and hundreds of getters and setters
all over the place. We do _not_ want this in Python. Etc., etc..

> - Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self"
> in next versions of Python.

That would be acceptable ...

> - In a future major version of Python, 3 or 4, self becomes a keyword
> and a first parameter named otherwise implies a class method (I
> understand it could mean a lot of changes in code not using self).

... that would (IMHO) not.


From rajorshi at fastmail.fm  Tue Mar  2 12:02:35 2004
From: rajorshi at fastmail.fm (Rajorshi)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 09:02:35 -0800
Subject: Determining the encoding of a text file
References: <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8@posting.google.com>
	<c20r4m$jn$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <85b5e3f8.0403020902.dfa01@posting.google.com>

Thanks for your suggestions!


"J.R." <j.r.gao at motorola.com> wrote in message news:<c20r4m$jn$1 at newshost.mot.com>...
> "Rajorshi" <rajorshi at fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8 at posting.google.com...
> > Hello!
> >  How do I determine the encoding of a text file ? That is,
> > given a text file I want to know the encoding it is in
> > UTF8 or UTF16 or Latin etc. It would be very helpful if
> > you could tell me how to do this in python on Linux. But
> > just the method is acceptable.
> > Thanks in advance!
> 
> The python integrated development environment IDLE, which is distributed
> alone with python, shows one approach how to decode a
> string. You could find it in the file $PYTHON/lib/idlelib/IOBinding.py, find
> the decode().
> 
> But it's not perfect, you could integrate with Skip's example writing your
> one.
> Additional, if you want to guess the Chinese encoding, the perl lib
> http://www.mandarintools.com/download/codelib.zip
> may be for your reference, it can support GB2312-80, Hz, Big5, UTF-8, etc.
> 
> J.R.


From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 16:11:49 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:11:49 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <40634B15.1090006@zope.com>

Glenn Andreas wrote:
> Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing something 
> like:
> 
>    myHandlers = {
>       "click" : def(x,y):
>                      print "click at x,y"
>       "enter" : def():
>                      print "mouse entered"
>       "exit"  : def():
>                      print "mouse exited"
>    }

I just thought of a better way to write this.

     myHandlers = {}
     myHandlers["click"] = def(x,y):
         print "click at x,y"
     myHandlers["enter"] = def():
         print "mouse entered"
     myHandlers["exit"] = def():
         print "mouse exited"

I think that's pretty nice.

Shane



From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 11:34:30 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:34:30 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.207.1079881172.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.207.1079881172.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3kfrg$297hpq$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Jon> [ expand jar file - presto! instant app ]

Also to clarify, describing

java -jar jarfile

as expanding a jarfile is not quite right.  It works
exactly as you would run an executable.  On many
platforms, you can even just type:

jarfile.jar

on the command line or double click a jar icon to start the
app(*).  Not once do you have to worry about extra files
lying around.  In fact, it might even be the case that the
class files are loaded into the jvm straight from the
jarfile and not decompressed behind the scenes into a temporary
directory at all.


(*) That's why I think Web Start is a stupid idea that
makes people think Java is more complicated than it really
is.


From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 31 06:20:02 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:20:02 GMT
Subject: test for nan
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r7v9w9em.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

> I have a C extension module that is returning some doubles.  When the
> doubles get out of range, the numbers print as 'nan'.
> 
> Is there a better way to test for NaN than
> 
>    str(p1)=='nan'
> 
> where p1 is a float?

I'd hope so: that's exceeding unportable.  Of course, all things to do
with nans are unportable, so you're going to have to tell us more of
your requirements...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I have *both* hands clapping, but I'm still not sure it's a sound.
  When I tried deciding if it were a sound while clapping only one
  hand, I fell off my chair.
                         -- Peter Hansen, Zen master, comp.lang.python


From james.g.tanner at boeing.com  Wed Mar 10 21:01:16 2004
From: james.g.tanner at boeing.com (Jim Tanner)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:01:16 GMT
Subject: Python 2.3.2 spawn problem
References: <HuDnKL.HAz@news.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <HuE2y3.Ap3@news.boeing.com>


"Jim Tanner" <james.g.tanner at boeing.com> wrote in message
news:HuDnKL.HAz at news.boeing.com...
> I am trying to start the 2.3.3 IDL and getting an error.  I think I might
> have a dll conflict, but the 2.2.3 IDL works fine.  The 2.3.3 IDL used to
> work just fine.
>
I finally tracked this error to a conflict with the TCL/TK library version
installed by Ruby having previously installed Python 2.3.2.  Python 2.3.2 is
dependent on a TCL/TK version that is one release older than that required
by Ruby.

Uninstalling Ruby and Python 2.3.2 and reinstalling Python 2.3.2 seems to
have done the trick.

I will have to run some controlled experiments to see if Ruby can run with
the same TCL/TK version as Python 2.3.2.

Thanks again for those of you who responded with suggestions.

Jim Tanner




From john.burton at jbmail.com  Sat Mar 20 11:54:06 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:54:06 +0000
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
In-Reply-To: <105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>
References: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <405c772e$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

Dan Boitnott wrote:
 > John Burton wrote:
 >
 >> Has anyone got any suggestion on the best way to allow my program to
 >> listen on those socket without runing as root when doing anything else?
 >> Ideally I want this to be portable so the same program still runs on
 >> windows.
 >
 >
 > The standard practice is to make the program setuid, be root just long
 > enough to bind to the socket, then change to an unprivileged user (like
 > "daemon").  The idea is to run as little code as root as possible.
 >
 > You can make a program suid root like this:
 >
 > # chown root.root myprog.py
 > # chmod a+s myprog.py
 >
 > And you can change users in Python like this:
 >
 > ----------------
 > import os
 > os.setreuid(2, 2)
 > ----------------
 >
 > UID 2 is normally the daemon user.  If you want to use a different user
 > you can refer to the /etc/passwd file.
 >
 > You may also want to run as the user who spawned the program in the
 > first place:
 >
 > ----------------
 > import os
 > uid = os.getuid()    # Gets the "real" UID
 >
 > # Do your socket binding
 >
 > os.setreuid(uid, uid)
 > ----------------
 >
 > Hope this helps.

Well it does - thanks for that - except that setting the set uid bit on
the script doesn't seem to actually work. This is on gentoo linux.


From surfunbear at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 13:35:54 2004
From: surfunbear at yahoo.com (Larry)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 10:35:54 -0800
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?
Message-ID: <fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d@posting.google.com>

I'm a C++/java programmer and have done a bunch of perl coding.
I am thinking of maybe learning python. What's a good intro primer, easy to read
good examples, understandable, maybe not one of those 2 inch thick books etc. ?


From vedranf at riteh.hr  Wed Mar  3 04:41:34 2004
From: vedranf at riteh.hr (Vedran Furac)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:41:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Impersonation
Message-ID: <slrnc4ba2e.jbl.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>

I would like to run a program as another user in win2k. I have runas
utility but with this I need type password all the time. Using python and
windows extensions it is posibile to write a program that will do this, here
is a code:

handel=win32security.LogonUser('username','domain','pass',
win32con.LOGON32_LOGON_INTERACTIVE,win32con.LOGON32_PROVIDER_DEFAULT)

win32security.ImpersonateLoggedOnUser(handel)

print "Started as: ", win32api.GetUserName()
#this prints target username, impersonation successful  

os.execv(path, args)
#runs program, not as target user 

#win32security.RevertToSelf()
#handel.Close()

..and this runs the program but not as a target user. Program is started just
normal as it would be without impersonation. Any idea why?



From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  9 02:41:15 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:41:15 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <n06qmpr8.fsf@python.net>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> I'm a bit late with this, but better late than never...
>
> PEP: 328
> Title: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative

There are commas missing imo:

> Rationale for Parentheses
> =========================
>
> Currently, if you want to import a lot of names from a module or
> package, you have to choose one of several unpalatable options:
>
> * Write a long line with backslash continuations::
>
>       from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text \
>           LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END
      from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text, \
          LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END

> * Write multiple ``import`` statements::
>
>       from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>       from Tkinter import LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END
>
> (``import *`` is *not* an option ;-)
>
> Instead, it should be possible to use Python's standard grouping
> mechanism (parentheses) to write the ``import`` statement::
>
>     from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>         LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)
    from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text,
        LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)
>
> This part of the proposal already has BDFL approval.

Thomas




From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar  1 18:31:47 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:31:47 -0700
Subject: How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of Ruby
	compared to Python?
References: <bf23f78f.0402241443.678bf6c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lkh7409cird6vtl5c2te3dddsk2k5rfh5v@4ax.com>

On 24 Feb 2004 14:43:03 -0800, seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian
Seberino) wrote:

>How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of Ruby compared to Python?

This question was recently asked in the UserLinux mailing list, in
connection with our selection of Python as the primary scripting
language.  I put together a page of links to other good discussions
and documents http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython and got
some comments from the Ruby mailing list
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=9k3k30l67d7j1beguaqg24uc2tmgvtefl1%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dcompare%2Bruby%2Bpython%2Bgroup:comp.lang.ruby%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D9k3k30l67d7j1beguaqg24uc2tmgvtefl1%25404ax.com%26rnum%3D1

I was considering only the language aspects of the comparison, leaving
aside the number of users, projects, libraries, etc.  I had to sift
through tons of stuff in the mailing lists look for examples of
anything beyond personal preferences for one style over another.  I
came up with two fundamental differences ( see the link above ):  
1) Ruby seems to have a slight advantage in handling complex sequences
of string operations, especially operations that can be stated
concisely as a string of method calls.  I say slight advantage,
because the missing string and list methods could easily be added.
2) Ruby allows you to change the fundamental behavior of core classes
and operations.  If you want string comparisons to be
case-insensitive, for example, you can modify the language to make
that happen.  In Python, you make a subclass of string, and over-ride
the __eq__ method -- not as convenient if what you are trying to do is
change the behavior of a large body of already written code.

Alex Martelli, the source of example 2 above, pointed out that this is
not a deficiency of Python, but a deliberate design choice, making
Python more suitable for production work, but less advantageous as an
experimental language.  In a production environment, we really *don't*
want to make it easy to redefine the behavior of the string class ( as
opposed to over-riding it in your own class ).  We all need to share a
common language.

There is also a frequently stated difference between the use of code
blocks in Ruby and Generators in Python, but I was never able to find
an example where the Python code couldn't be made equivalent to Ruby.
The example on the wiki page above shows that the two differ only in
calling style.  My tenetative conclusion is that there must be some
impressive difference in the way these features work internally, but
to the user it's just a matter of personal preference -- Do you want
to say:
fibUpTo(1000) { |f| print f, " " }
or
for f in fibUpTo(1000): print f,

If there are any Ruby experts here, please take a look at this
generator example.  If there really is some fundametal difference
relevant to the user, I would like to know.

-- Dave



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 09:37:17 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:37:17 +0000
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.77.1078607276.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403080220.4622ded6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1ovo40dhe9ghnd50hiu7susc1i957k9jit@4ax.com>

On 8 Mar 2004 02:20:44 -0800, michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:

>Remind me of the Perl assertion that it's a better language because
>you can cram functions into huge, indecipherable single lines..... why
>on earth is that an advantage ?

Hardly relevant when the comparison is Ruby, not Perl.

Compare...

clean = line.chomp.strip('.').squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)

with...

clean = line.chomp
clean = clean.strip ('.')
clean = clean.squeeze
clean = clean.split(/\s*\|\s*/)

The regular expression in equally horrible in either case, but then
Python has regular expressions too. When the difference is purely a
matter of how many lines you pack the code into - what your logic is
trying to claim - I really don't think the readability is much
different in either case. If anything, the multiline version is very
slightly obscured by the redundant assignments and repeated use of
'clean', though in this noddy case it isn't really an issue.

Now to do the nearest equivalent in Python that I can come up with...

import re

clean = line.strip ('\n')
clean = clean.strip ('.')
clean = re.sub (' +', ' ', clean)
clean = re.split (' ?\| ?', clean)


Or, if you prefer...

clean = line.strip ('\n')
clean = clean.strip ('.')
clean = ' '.join (clean.split ())
clean = re.split (' ?\| ?', clean)


I'm sorry, but I still don't think Python is clearer. Spreading over
multiple lines is not a magic fix for readability. I'm not by any
means saying 'abandon Python' or anything, but a true Python advocate
would realise that sometimes you can learn a trick from another
language.

And of course no language is perfect. I don't know Ruby myself, but
the impression I have is that it is less suitable for large projects
than Python. One of the strongest Perl advocacy web sites I've ever
read (I forget who's, sorry) included the statement that the user
would still use Perl for 2 minute hack-it-together jobs.

Python is an exceptionally good language, with a lot of rapid
prototyping convenience and yet still well suited to large
applications that have to be maintained. It is the only language I
know where the quick prototypes tend to become the huge, heavily
maintained applications and I *don't* regret it. I think that's pretty
much what that advocacy site says as well.

That doesn't mean that we need a 'not invented here' mentality,
though.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:14:46 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 05:14:46 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<38ec68a6.0403171750.7a300cb2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0@posting.google.com>

afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) wrote 
> axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote

> >                                      Why would anybody ever want to
> > know whether two strings or tupels are internally stored at the same
> > location, other than to deduce details of the Python implementation?
> 
> Most obviously to tell whether they are the same object or not.  
> While this is not an issue with simple strings, have you considered
> what effect your suggestions would have on classes inheriting from
> str?

Indeed I have not. Probably because basic built-in strings form a type
that's not a class and you can't inherit from it.

> For instance I might have a class 'Name', in a names database, which
> is a specialised string.  In this case '==' function looks to the
> contents of the strings being compared, while 'is' tells me whether
> these two strings are the same object.  Thus "if name0 == name1 and
> not name0 is name1" will tell me that I am dealing with a duplicate
> record.  

If you make Name a class that contains a string as a data attribute,
then "is" on Name objects will work as always, since Names aren't
immutable. To test whether you have duplicates, you can use "is" on
Names.

Now, rather than test "is" on Name objects, one could be tempted to
test "is" on the string attributes instead. Note that sometimes
strings created by completely different parts of a program compare as
"is-identical". Sometimes they don't, even though they are "==-equal".
It's implementation dependent. Name is broken. My proposal would
eliminate this very programming mistake.

> By the way you /have/ written a program in which a large (or at least
> important) part of the logic was contained in the __eq__ method to the
> class you created, haven't you?  

No.

> I mean you wouldn't really be in a
> situation to advocate a redefinition of the identity/equivalence
> relationship unless you had, would you?

Why not?

Axel


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 13 10:05:43 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:05:43 -0500
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different
 Filesinthe Directory
In-Reply-To: <mailman.354.1079182881.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.354.1079182881.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qtF4c.2790$G3.23594@localhost>

Shalen chhabra wrote:

> Thanks to all who responded: But my problem still remains unsolved:
> I can do for sure this:
> 
> import os
> 
> for f in os.listdir('/path/to/dir'):
>     <do stuff to f>
> 
> 
> But lets pay attention to my original post:

Don't be rude to those trying to help.  The answers given were perfectly 
appropriate to your somewhat unclear question.

> I said I want to run a python program.
> 
> For example: If i want to run a python program like this:
> 
> instead of <do stuff to f>
> 
> python program.py file1

In that case, investigate os.system(), as it will do what you need.

-Peter


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Mar 15 11:08:08 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:08:08 -0000
Subject: looping over a class attribute
References: <b82e5469.0403121359.f099aa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5blqh.2nk.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <b82e5469.0403121359.f099aa8 at posting.google.com>, biner wrote:
> I would like to be able to make a loop like this 
>>>> dir(x)
> ['__doc__', '__module__', 'val1', 'val2']
>>>> for i in dir(x) : print x.i

Like Aahz said, getattr(x, i) is your ticket. However, keep in mind that the
behavior of dir() is not guaranteed across current and future versions of
Python. You may have better luck using x.__dict__.keys() - or in Python 2.3,
you can get away with this:

for i in x.__dict__: print getattr(x, i)

Since dictionaries are their own key-iterators now.

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Mar 13 12:18:59 2004
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:18:59 -0800
Subject: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
In-Reply-To: <Law10-F8898L4pviw2T0000ac36@hotmail.com>
References: <Law10-F8898L4pviw2T0000ac36@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200403130918.59911.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Friday 12 March 2004 05:26 pm, shalendra chhabra wrote:
> Hi,
> I just had  a tryst with python.
> I was wondering if python is good enough to do this kind of job -- for it
> has extensive support of string and pattern matching, ordering and list
> handling.
>
> There are 'n' itemsets, the size of n is unknown. The program can count
> itself while scanning.  Each of the n itemset is of the form key: value
>
> {key1: value1, key2:value2, key3, value3, key4: value4 .....}
>
> Is it possible to order this itemset in an increasing order of key: value
> with respect to keys. For example: if
> key4>key2>key3>key1
> then the resulting ordering should be in such a way:
>
> key4:value4, key2: value2,key3:value3>key1: value1
>
> I plan to do this by storing this whole set of itemset in a vector or map.
>
> Lets say vector v={key1:value1, key2: value2, key3: value3,key4:value4}
>
> Now I wish to apply the sorting over this vector v, such that I have the
> entries in the increasing order with respect to keys in v again.
> Can some one point to me how to achieve this with python?
> A snippet.....
>

Lots of possible answers here since it's hard to tell what you really
want. The upshot is that either built in *lists* or *dictionaries*
(and many more structures that you could invent), will allow you tools
to access the items in sorted order.  Which data structure you
actually choose is governed by the other interactions you desire.

You could store the key,value pairs in a Python dictionary like this:

  d = {key1:value1, key2: value2, key3: value3,key4:value4}

of in a Python list of tuples like this:

  v = [ (key1,value1), (key2, value2), (key3,value3), (key4,value4) ]


But now for the hard questions:

  Do you really care how they are actually stored in memory?
	 Probably not -- see the next question.

  Do you care how your program will access them efficiently in sorted order?
	 Either data structure can be accessed in sorted order.  For the dictionary
			keys = d.keys()              # Get the keys
			keys.sort()                  # Sort the keys
			for key in keys:             # Access via sorted keys
			  --- do something with pair key,d[key] ---
     and for the list:
			v.sort()                     # Sort the key,value tuples
			for key,value in v:			 # Access the pairs in sorted order
			  --- do something with pair key,value ---

  Do you care how you build them or otherwise interact with them?
    Both dictionaries and lists are data structures rich with methods
    for interaction.  They supply various methods for building,
    accessing, inserting, deleting, slicing, and much more.  Here's an
    outline of a small portion of their methods
     Dictionary support access by key:
				insert:  d[newkey] = newvalue
				delete:  del d[key]
				access:  d[key]
	 Lists support access by index:
				insert:  d[i:i] = newvalue
				append:  d.append(newvalue)
				delete:  del d[i]
				access:  d[i]
				slices:  d[i:j]

So the questions you really need to ask and answer are:

  How will you build your structure?
  How will you otherwise interact with the structure?


Hope that helps,
Gary Herron






From curty at freeze.invalid  Mon Mar  8 08:45:16 2004
From: curty at freeze.invalid (Curt)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 14:45:16 +0100
Subject: Utterly OT:[Was Re: Need better string methods]
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<Xns94A4C17566601rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<1078619981.9471.0@echo.uk.clara.net>
	<Xns94A4D409BC588rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <877jxve9lf.fsf@einstein.electron.net>

rzed <rzantow at ntelos.net> writes:

> I'm interested in finding out where it came from and when it 
> originated. I saw one post that claimed it was a Cajun term, which 

Your term (what was it again?  gradoo?) reminds of of the French "gadoue"
which means mud.  This etymology wouldn't annoy your typical Cajun, either.


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Mar 15 18:00:26 2004
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:00:26 +0100
Subject: Computing test methods in unittest.TestCase
In-Reply-To: <c22i8b$1nutfo$1@ID-71831.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <4044BE1E.7000408@jandecaluwe.com>
	<c22i8b$1nutfo$1@ID-71831.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4056358A.5050005@jandecaluwe.com>

James Kew wrote:
> "Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
> news:4044BE1E.7000408 at jandecaluwe.com...
> 
>>>class FSMTest(unittest.TestCase):
>>
>>    ....
>>    for st, trs in transitionTable.items():
>>        for i, tr in enumerate(trs):
>>            def _tmpfunc(self, st=st, tr=tr):
>>                sim = Simulation(self.bench(st, tr))
>>                sim.run()
>>            _tmpfunc.func_doc = "Check state %s - %s" % (st, getDoc(tr))
>>            exec "test_%s_%s = _tmpfunc" % (st, i)
>>
>>This works, but uses some "ugly" tricks:
>>
>>* default arguments to pass context info. As the code is executed in
>>  class context, not function context, I cannot use free variables.
>>* The use of 'exec'. unittest looks for methods with name prefix
>>  'test_' in the class namespace, and I didn't find another way
>>  to achieve that.
>>
>>Anyone with better ideas?
> 
> 
> Define the test methods after defining the class, and inject them into the
> class with setattr:
> 
> class testClass:
>     pass
> 
> def makeTest(param):
>     def test(self):
>         print "test: param=%s" % param
>     return test
> 
> setattr(testClass, "test1", makeTest(1))
> setattr(testClass, "testHello", makeTest("Hello"))

Thanks - this is a nice way to get rid of the exec. However, I found
out that I still need the default arguments in my case. Free variables
do behave differently as shown in the following example:

def funcs():
    flist = []
    glist = []
    for i in range(3):
        def f():
            print "f: " + str(i)
        def g(i=i):
            print "g: " + str(i)
        flist.append(f)
        glist.append(g)
    for f, g in zip(flist, glist):
        f(); g()

>>> funcs()
f: 2
g: 0
f: 2
g: 1
f: 2
g: 2

When generating such functions (with free variables) in loops,
it's apparently very easy to get it wrong ...

Regards, Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
    Python is fun, and now you can design hardware with it:
    http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/Overview.html


From sean_berry at cox.net  Thu Mar 25 16:02:52 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:02:52 -0600
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
References: <96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZuJ8c.3493$GH3.338@fed1read07>

In order to do what you are trying here...
you would have to do something like the following.

L2 = []
for item in L:
    L2.append(string.lower(item))

then do your sort
L2.sort

This way, you are applying the lower to a string, and not the list.
If you do not need to change the case of all characters to lower, then
you should use my suggestion from my previous post.

If you do need to lower case all characters... then try what I have above.


calpolynate <nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9 at posting.google.com...
> I'm attempting to open a file, read the lines, sort them, change any
> uppercase character to lowercase, and output to another file:
>
> import string
>
> unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r')
> L = unsorted.readlines()
> L.sort()
> L = L.lower()
> sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> sorted.writelines(L)
> unsorted.close()
> sorted.close()
>
> when trying to run, I get this traceback:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "sort_list.py", line 6, in ?
>     L = L.lower(L)
> AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'lower'
>
> Do I need to somehow convert the list into strings?
>
> Thanks for any help!




From abc at def.net  Sat Mar  6 13:18:28 2004
From: abc at def.net (Brett)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:18:28 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
Message-ID: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>

Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
(untested examples in C++)

(1) deeply nested loops

for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
    if (/* some test */) goto END;

END: /* continue */;

and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:

BEGIN:
for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
    if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;

What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
'goto' command?

Thanks.





From beeduul at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 13:57:52 2004
From: beeduul at yahoo.com (Jeremy Biddle)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 10:57:52 -0800
Subject: Numeric and output args for logical comparison ufuncs
Message-ID: <a880847d.0403051057.1138ba3b@posting.google.com>

hi, I haven't been able to resolve this problem, the docs were not
explicit enough and a search hasn't yielded a resolution so I'm
posting for some help.

I'm using Numeric to do some array calculations on Int8 arrays, but
the results of the logical comparison ufuncs return 32-bit ints and so
are incompatible with my data set. (btw, I'm using pygame so I can't
move to numarray -- not sure whether that would solve the problem
anyway...)

Here's an illustration of the problem --

>>> import Numeric as N
>>> a = N.zeros((5,5), N.Int8)
>>> N.equal(a,0,a)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: return array has incorrect type

I know I can do this:
>>> a = N.zeros((5,5), N.Int8)
>>> a = N.equal(a,0).astype(N.Int8)
...but I want to do an in-place operation (using output args) to save
time and space.

Is there any way to tell the ufunc to use Int8s instead of Int32s (or
64s or whatever)??

Thanks,
Jeremy


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Mar 17 06:34:29 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:34:29 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
References: <pan.2004.03.17.09.26.45.125309@technology-network.de>
Message-ID: <c39d3f$nqm$01$2@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Anyone any idea what i did wrong?? Thanks for your help in advance..
> 
> Sebastian

Under Linux, similar things worked for me. Did you call setDaemon(True) on
your bg threads?


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  2 21:03:24 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:03:24 -0500
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
References: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c23eda$t9c$1@sea.gmane.org>


"F Jamitzky" <fxj at mpe.mpg.de> wrote in message
news:5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c at posting.google.com...
> Was this intended as a language feature or is this style an
> "unpythonic"

It is intentional that Python give you the flexibility to do things the
developers never imagined and that most users think a bit wierd or 'over
the top'.  Playing with things like this is one way to learn, and probably
more fun than some.

Terry J. Reedy






From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 17:43:21 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:43:21 -0500
Subject: test for nan
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnku106yn06.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

> I have a C extension module that is returning some doubles.  When the
> doubles get out of range, the numbers print as 'nan'.
>
> Is there a better way to test for NaN than
>
>    str(p1)=='nan'
>
> where p1 is a float?

The string representation of NaN is system-dependent. On Windows it's
something like #NaN. You'd be better off with Jeff Epler's suggestion
of wrapping isnan() (since you already have a C extension module, you
could through it in there).

If you're on something that uses IEEE floating-point representations,
something like this in pure python should work:

import struct
def isnan(x):
    s = struct.pack('d', x)
    if struct.pack('h', 1) == '\x01\x00':
        return s == '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\xf0\x7f':
    else:
        return s == '\x7f\xf8\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00':

The test for endianness is there since struct.unpack('<d', x)
complains that frexp() is out of range.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Mar 12 14:39:45 2004
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 11:39:45 -0800
Subject: Python on Mac OS X doesn't have gdbm
References: <ef08387c.0403112103.33130dca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ef08387c.0403121139.77fc0ce2@posting.google.com>

fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo) wrote in message news:<ef08387c.0403112103.33130dca at posting.google.com>...
> First off I know I can install the latest python from Fink quite
> easily and it'll give me everything needed. But I'm trying to
> distribute my python app to end users who don't really care (or know)
> anything about Fink.
> 
> The default Python on Mac OS X is 2.3 but doesn't come with gdbm. Did
> anyone try to get the source of gdbm and build it, and somehow built
> the gdbm module for Python on Mac OS X? If so could you share a few
> hints? It'll save me lots of time trying.
> 
> Thanks!

Just a follow-up on what I did to sort of solve this problem. I simply
copied gdbm.so and the necessary libgdbm* files from Fink to another
directory, and used install_name_tool to change the dynamic library
path inside gdbm.so. And it worked...


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 13:30:31 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:30:31 -0500
Subject: Meta-class fun with PEP 318 [was Re: PEP 318 - posting draft]
References: <mailman.292.1080061340.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5059c.52103$re.2658589@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<iEj9c.52673$re.2965819@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <sKj9c.52687$re.2968252@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:iEj9c.52673$re.2965819 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> class MetaDecorate(type):
>     "Enables delayed decoration and annotation of methods"
>     def __new__(klass, name, bases, _dict):
>         if "decorated" in _dict:
>             for method, (decorators, attributes) in
> _dict["decorated"].iteritems():
>                 _dict[method] = delayed_decorate(_dict[method],
*decorators,
> **attributes)
>             del _dict["decorated"]
>         return type.__new__(klass, name, bases, _dict)

Sorry, that part got a bit messed up:

class MetaDecorate(type):
    "Enables delayed decoration and annotation of methods"
    def __new__(klass, name, bases, _dict):
        if "decorated" in _dict:
            for m, (d, a) in _dict["decorated"].iteritems():
                _dict[m] = delayed_decorate(_dict[m], *d, **a)
            del _dict["decorated"]
        return type.__new__(klass, name, bases, _dict)




From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 10:19:27 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 07:19:27 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0403020719.1201b3a@posting.google.com>

Not sure what you mean exactly, but this may do it:

http://members.nccw.net/kdahlhaus/python/python.html#pyhints



> Is it possible to enable "calltips" while editing python documents
> with vim?


From john.burton at jbmail.com  Mon Mar 22 07:49:20 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:49:20 +0000
Subject: What's missing from python?
Message-ID: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

One of the reasons I like python so much is that the standard 
installation comes with a whole lot of libraries to do lots of useful 
things but there seem to be a few things missing from the standard 
library which would be useful in many projects:

Encryption - AES and 3DES. Possibly RSA and Certificate processing.
DNS - Something better than gethostbyaddr for looking up other record types.
Database - Something suitable for small projects / prototypes like 
pysqlite or something in pure python even.
SSL/TLS - Some useful support...

A lot of projects seem to need some of those. It's easy enough to 
install extras to do those thing but they are all things where it would 
be nice to have something in the standard library that you could rely on 
being there.

Is there any reason why those things are not already in the standard 
library?


From patois at calvix.org  Sat Mar 20 10:42:42 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:42:42 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3h54q$o2h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
	<c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<c3g5nr$mcp$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3h10s$fbu$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<c3h54q$o2h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c3hoqq$sut$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> You didn't answer my question as to whether module_5.py is reasonable 
> replacement for the module.5.py naming scheme you are currently using.

That's what I'm doing now, of course, even if it cause some problems I 
have to solve another way.


>> The doc is not so explicit. It says that hierarchical modules are not 
>> handled by load_module(), fine, i dont want to handle hierarchicals 
>> one, just a simple one that has a don in its name. 
> 
> The documentation is specific, you quoted it yourself:
> "This function does not handle hierarchical module names (names 
> containing dots)."
> 
> Any file name with a dot that is not the extension of the file, is 
> considered hierarchical

This point wasnt clear to me when I read the doc. I well understood 
"hierarchical files uses dots" but not "any dots means hierarchy", and 
in fact it does work that way, as the import of "B.1" didnt imported 
submodule 1 from B but really "B.1".

> and is "not handled".

Well, in fact it is, it only cause very subtle bugs afterwards.

>>> then the error is in the way /you/ name /your/ modules, not the way 
>>> Python handles /incorrectly/ named modules.
>> That's exactly what I said, and I tend to believe it.
> Then you agree that your naming scheme is flawed.  Stop doing it.

I stopped using it as soon as I understood that the problem was there.
I think that such a thing should not work at all and not "partially 
work", but I'm not a python master, and maybe it doesnt worth to be 
done. I'm just rising the issue here.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 14 20:33:35 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:33:35 +1300
Subject: put your money where your mouse is, or why I prefer Spanish to
 English: a proposal
In-Reply-To: <xqxznal3ngm.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
	<mailman.308.1079092513.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<xqxznal3ngm.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <c3315f$22vl9m$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Harry George wrote:
> Hmmm.  How many Pythonistas have studied Esperanto?  Looks like 2 of
> us so far.  The Esperanto headquarters is in Netherlands, so there is
> a suspicious confluence of geography with Python.

I'm astounded that nobody has suggested Dutch yet...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 20 10:48:32 2004
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:48:32 -0700
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3hp49$281ei9$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| ....
| ActiveState's and Pythonware's are the two I am aware of

  There are also the  Enthought  distributions ....

      Python 2.3 and Python 2.2.3 
      for Windows (Enthought Edition) ....

          http://www.enthought.com/

  I've been using the 2.3 version successfully
  for several months and chose it specifically
  because several add-on packages were included
  that I didn't have to seek out and otherwise
  individually install ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Mar 30 08:29:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:29:01 +0200
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4bsu5$2fg582$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> It's possible there are places where the interpreter could fail to
> understand it, but I haven't found them yet. If there *aren't* any
> situations where one could be confused for the other... then it's not
> needed and is annoying :-)

Thats a matter of taste - its easy to spot a comparision, and typing an
additional "=" if you're already over the key - well, python spares me so
wuch typing, I can live with that.

> The same could equally well be true for the trailing ':' after def, if
> etc statements..............

You are allowed to write

if cond: expression

so the colon makes sense here I believe. And as someone who loathed the
rules for ".", ",", ";" placement in pascal, I can live with the colon even
if a newline appears after the if/def/whatever. Think of the coding
conventions for C or JAVA that forbid the usage of

if(cond)
  statement;

and instead insist on {} put around the statements.

Too much freedom in syntax leads to religious wars waged over the style to
use - I'm glad that python lacks that stylewars.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Fri Mar 26 08:05:30 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:05:30 -0300 (ART)
Subject: Calling function keywords from a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <slrnc682dt.ht.e9526547@stud3.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <20040326130530.81874.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com>


>>> def myfunc(x,y,z, **kw):
...   return x*x + y*y + z*z
...
>>> dic = {
...   'action' : 'myfunc',
...   'x' : 1,
...   'y' : 2,
...   'z' : 3
... }
>>> f = globals()[dic['action']] 
>>> f(**dic)
14

HTH,
Aloysio

 --- Alexander Straschil <e9526547 at stud3.tuwien.ac.at> escreveu: 
> Hello!
> 
> I'm fooling around with a class wich can map cgi-parameters to
> function named parameter.
> 
> I have a dic like
>  dic = {
>  	'action': 'myfunc',
> 	'x': 1,
> 	'y': 2,
> 	'z': 3
>  }
>  and I have a method
>  def myfunc(x, y, z, a=None, b=None)
> 
> What I want to do ist calling the method defined in 'action' with
> all the named parameter, also instead of
>  self.myfunct(x=1, y=2, z=3)
> I want to do
>  f = getattr(self, dic['action'])
>  f(named parameter from the dic)
> Its a little like zope does it, but i didnt find it in the Zope
> Sources ;-)
> How can do that? 
> 
> Thanks, AXEL.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From bouil at bouil.org.invalid  Tue Mar 23 19:44:53 2004
From: bouil at bouil.org.invalid (Nicolas Bouillon)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:44:53 +0100
Subject: py files includings each others
In-Reply-To: <AL48c.32121$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>
References: <AL48c.32121$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <XN48c.32122$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>

Nicolas Bouillon a ?crit, le 24.03.2004 01:42 :
> a.py:
> ====
> from b import Man

It is evidently :

from b import Father

but i got the same kind of error:

bouil at lisa:/tmp$ python b.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "b.py", line 1, in ?
     from a import Person
   File "/tmp/a.py", line 1, in ?
     from b import Father
   File "/tmp/b.py", line 1, in ?
     from a import Person
ImportError: cannot import name Person


> 
> class Person:
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
> 
>     def set_father(self):
>         self.father = Father()
> ====
> 
> b.py
> ====
> from a import Person
> 
> class Father(Person):
>     def __init__(self):
>         Person.__init__(self)
> 
> p = Father()
> ====
> 
> Runing:
> ====
> bouil at lisa:/tmp$ python b.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "b.py", line 1, in ?
>     from a import Person
>   File "/tmp/a.py", line 1, in ?
>     from b import Man
>   File "/tmp/b.py", line 1, in ?
>     from a import Person
> ImportError: cannot import name Person
> bouil at lisa:/tmp$
> ====
> 
> Thanks you.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 16:02:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:02:08 -0500
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
In-Reply-To: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F7CdnS8EgKjN9srdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Tina wrote:

> I was wondering if there is a way to insert dynamic program code as data.

Any Python function can be used "as data" the way you are hoping merely 
by using its name.  The result is a "callable" and you can call it at 
any time merely by using parentheses in the normal way.

As a simplified example that should help you along:

> One "what if" is for Myrrhyn women to have +1d6 CHA. Now I could put this in
> the main code but I'm trying to make the basic generator as generic as
> possible for re-use.

import random

def oneDsix():
     '''return 1d6 result'''
     return random.randint(1, 6)

nation = [2, "Melnibone", 3, 1, 10, oneDsix]
CHA_INDEX = 5

chaItem = nation[CHA_INDEX]
if callable(chaItem):
     chaValue = chaItem()
else:
     chaValue = chaItem

# another item might have a non-callable there instead:
nation2 = [1, "Pan Tang", 5, 2, 27, 5]

# in which case chaValue would just equal 5 at the end of the sequence

Somewhat primitive, yes, but you can experiment and expand on the idea 
as needed.

-Peter


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 09:49:17 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:49:17 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <lvu050503u5ll38ulfoldiifdm1k56btln@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:09:47 GMT, Kyler Laird <Kyler at news.Lairds.org>
wrote:

>claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>> Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named
>> function; 
> 
>How do you cleanly do that?
>	foo = range(-10, 10)
>	my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
>	bar = map(my_op, foo)
>
>--kyler

foo = range(-10, 10)
#  my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
def my_op(x): return float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
bar = map(my_op, foo)

-- Dave


From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar  8 14:15:39 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:15:39 -0700
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <51ep409pkb5ni5q2tmuga9je8k9semmnv6@4ax.com>

Wow!! I am truly impressed with the quality of the discussion on this
topic, and the very excellent suggestions on how to best handle the
problems of complex operations on strings.  As nearly everyone has
pointed out, my original "best Python" 

clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

is not right for the task at hand -- a two-day intro to Python for
EE's.  That one-liner was originally from my Ruby-Python comparison
page http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython  It came out of a
discussion with people who are proficient in Python.

At this point I'm probably going to stick with a simple procedural
style, as suggested by Skip Montanaro and William Park

line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
# Line-by-line, with colorful names and comments.
pieces = line.split('|')   # split at the bars
# left-strip the dots
nodots  = [ piece.lstrip('.') for piece in pieces ]
def squeeze(words): return ' '.join(words.split())
clean = [squeeze(pieces) for pieces in nodots] # normalize spaces
print clean
['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']

Still, I am tempted by the elegance and clarity of a sequence of
method calls.  I will have to resist that temptation, however, until
Python has some better built-in methods.  I know that even if I define
my own "StringOps" class, rather than stick to the basic tools in
Python, that will open the door to all sorts of "extensions" by people
whose job security depends on EE's not being able to do things for
themselves.  Not that we would forbid anyone to use the full power of
Python, but my hope is that we can put together a basic design tools
package where all of the scripts can serve as a pattern for an EE with
a two-day introduction to Python.

For those who would like to pursue this discussion of the best
programming styles, I put together a wiki page with a summary of what
I've learned so far.
http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?PythonStringOps 
Here is a sample:
4. Ideal syntax.  Start with a very complete set of string methods.
Add map and join list methods to allow operations on lists of strings.

                  / - -              - - \ 

string1.op1.split - - - .map.op2.op3 - - - .join.op4.op5

                  \ - -              - - /

Comments are welcome.

-- Dave



From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Sun Mar 28 19:40:09 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:40:09 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403271053.5c866d75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <106es3ag0p7nm50@corp.supernews.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> news:<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai at 4ax.com>...
>> This is a small problem with a simple solution (see my earlier post),
>> and one that will retain the advantages of tabs.
> 
> Just to be clear, the previous one was a rethorical question. Use any
> editor
> with decent Python support and pressing the tab key will insert four
> spaces,
> indenting your code just fine. Even if you are using Notepad on
> Windows, it is
> best if you use spaces, otherwise you risk to be beaten by Outlook
> Express the Tabs Eater.
> Plus, the size of a tab (8 spaces? 4 spaces?) and the output you get
> is totally dependent on the system you are using. Seriously, even
> doing an effort I cannot imagine a single advantage of tabs. Tabs are
> evil.

Normally, I also prefer spaces over tabs; but, when I was doing a bit of
Python editing on my Zaurus (with it's limited screenwidth), I *really*
appreciated the ability to edit with a tabsize of two spaces.  When I moved
the code back to my desktop, I was able to view the code using my normal
four-space preference, with no changes to the code.

> They are an historical wart, they should just be banned from modern
> computing.
> 
>                 Michele Simionato

--Andy


From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 19:04:16 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:16 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
Message-ID: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.
Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means of development,
dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for efficiency.  Any pointers
appreciated.  Surveys of leading open source 3D engines, such as Nebula and
Crystal Space, haven't yielded anything.  I'm now starting to look at
non-game applications.

-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

"The pioneer is the one with the arrows in his back."
                          - anonymous entrepreneur



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 10:46:31 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:46:31 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16480.23511.667453.578019@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michele> And don't forget Ville Vanio's idea of using the new syntax to
    Michele> implement multimethods:

    Michele> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Matrix,Matrix):
    Michele>     ...

    Michele> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Matrix,Vector):
    Michele>    ...

    Michele> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Matrix,Scalar):
    Michele>   ...

    Michele> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Vector,Vector):
    Michele>   ...

    Michele> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Vector,Scalar):
    Michele>   ...

    Michele> etc.

    Michele> Way cool, actually :)

Okay, but can you explain the mechanism or point me to the original post?  I
can't find it on Google (probably too recent).  Multimethod(a,b)() won't
know that each call is for __mul__ will it (maybe it will peek at the
func_name attribute)?  From what you posted, all I saw was multiple
definitions of __mul__.  Only the last one will be present as a method in
the class's definition.

Skip



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar  6 04:12:49 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:12:49 +0100
Subject: Null-terminated strings with struct module?
References: <roy-F3219B.19232205032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c2c4mu$558$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I need to generate packed binary data which includes null-terminated
> strings mixed in with binary numbers.  For example, the Python string
> "foo" needs to become the 4-character binary string "foo\0", just like a
> C string (don't ask, I didn't design the protocol).
> 
> What's the best way to do this?  The "s" format specifier in struct
> gives me fixed-length, non-null-terminated strings.  Right now I'm doing:
> 
>         s1 = self.directory + "\0"
>         s2 = self.fileName + "\0"
>         s3 = self.dateString + "\0"
>         s4 = self.name + "\0"
>         s5 = struct.pack ("!IB", self.id, self.perTargetFlag)
>         data = s1 + s2 + s3 + s4 + s5
> 
> which is pretty ugly.  Is there a neater way to do this?
> 
> I know the string addition isn't the most efficient way to go, but for
> this application, I prefer the clarity and don't mind the minor speed
> hit.

Does that rule out the following?

data = "\0".join([self.directory, self.fileName, ..., struct.pack(...)])

Or perhaps you could mangle attribute names (untested):

def __getattr__(self, name):
    flag, name = name[0], name[1].lower() + name[2:]
    value = getattr(self, name) 
    if flag == "Z":
        return  value + "\0"
    else:
        return struct.pack("!" + flag, value)

data = self.ZDirectory + ... + self.ZName + self.IId + self.BPerTargetFlag

Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar  7 21:47:48 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:47:48 -0500
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104nnqlq81dvj48@news.supernews.com>


"Kylotan" <kylotan at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986 at posting.google.com...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:<104mo6mjpc1lq74 at news.supernews.com>...
>
> > Coupling is the enemy.
> >
> > The XP people have a lot of experiance with reducing
> > coupling. Writing tests first, and insisting that literally
> > hundreds of unit tests run in a few seconds teaches you
> > how to write code with a minimum of coupling. Some of
> > those lessons aren't particularly easy.
>
> Yeah, that's what I'm guessing. I'm at the stage where I have to
> wonder whether forcing myself to make the paradigm shift will be worth
> the effort or not.

Your comment below makes me wonder if you're trying
to create a "text adventure" game. I'm not certain whether
to take it literally or not.

Text adventure games have a real different domain model
from what most object oriented systems are designed for.
Almost all objects are singletons, or else have lots of
behavior in the instances that aren't part of the base
classes. The few people I know of who work on games
have real problems with unit testing gameplay, whether done
before or after the fact. There is a feeling that it's simply
not worth while. Unit testing the underlying engine, though,
is very worth while.

> > The first is to see if you can redesign using a layered
> > architecture. That may force you to reduce the number
> > of objects that any given object depends on.
>
> What do you mean by layered in this context? Are you talking things
> like the Bridge design pattern?

No, I'm talking about layers in the sense that objects
in one layer are not allowed to call objects in higher
layers. Sometimes imposing a layered architecture
clarifies things by forcing the removal of cyclic
dependencies.

> > The second is to investigate mock objects, or other
> > methods of stubbing out dependencies. While you do
> > need to run the entire system as a unit, there is no
> > reason you need to run the real production objects
> > for all tests.
>
> That seems like a nice idea, but I've been developing this system as
> an evolving prototype. I add new objects and classes as I discover I
> need them. Therefore there's almost no functionality there at all that
> isn't needed for the system as it stands.
>
> Here's an example of my current system: the Creature class requires a
> Race class and a World class to be instantiated, as the Creature's
> __init__ function relies on calling methods of these objects (not just
> on their presence). Sure, technically I could create dummy objects to
> pass in that have do-nothing functions, but then I break most of
> Creature's accessors, which are implemented in terms of delegating to
> the other objects. In turn this would make the tests meaningless.

Mock objects don't have do-nothing functions. They have functions
that do exactly what the current test needs them to do.

John Roth

>
> -- 
> Ben Sizer




From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Sat Mar 27 07:54:05 2004
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 04:54:05 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0403270454.66741dbe@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote
> ... they didn't learn their lessons about
> tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
> a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
> Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
> lines, thus destroying the indentation.
> 
> An interesting language that has just dropped off of
> my radar screen as being unusable in my environment.
By that you mean that you'll never again use Outlook Express?

Jim


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Mon Mar  1 23:27:06 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 15:17:06 +1050
Subject: wxGlade not Running !
References: <5cc5bb23.0403012032.574e583f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc484e9.bmo.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 1 Mar 2004 20:32:26 -0800, Somesh Bartakkay wrote:
> i installed wxGlade on System xp, when i started it ..its not running
> ?

My crystal ball isn't working too well.  Can you give any information
about:

  - what you're doing, or what you've done
  - what you expect to happen
  - what actually happens

-- 
 \       "The man who is denied the opportunity of taking decisions of |
  `\      importance begins to regard as important the decisions he is |
_o__)                     allowed to take."  -- C. Northcote Parkinson |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From david_rostowsky at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 28 12:48:45 2004
From: david_rostowsky at yahoo.com (David Rostowsky)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 09:48:45 -0800
Subject: Pass pointer from C++ class to Boost Python script ?!!!
Message-ID: <181d5e23.0403280948.7933829e@posting.google.com>

Im a newbie to Boost and Python and need some help.

I have a C++ class:

class TestC
{
protected:
    int x;

public:
    TestC() { x = 0; };
    void Set(int val) { x = val; };
    int Get(void) { return x; };
};

In my C++ code I want to allocate an instance of TestC:
TestC * my_ptr = new TestC();

Now, I want to run a Boost Python script from inside my C++ code and
pass the address of my_ptr to the script such that the script can call
any of my classes public member functions like this:

# my python script. I know the syntax is probably not right, thats why
I need help! This is test_script.py referenced in c++ code below.
def my_script(addr_of_my_ptr):
    addr_of_my_ptr.Set(9)
    x = addr_of_my_ptr.Get()
    print x
    return 0;

So, in my C++ code, Ive been trying to do stuff like below, but with
no luck... I know I need some wacky Boost syntax to expose the class
to the Python script (I definitely need help there too). Everything
works right up until PyObject_CallObject where it crashes and burns. I
cant decode the Boost documentation properly to find the right amount
of cryptic code to use to make this work right. HELP!!!

int main()
{
    Py_Initialize();
	
    // load the module
    PyObject * module = PyImport_ImportModule("test_script");

    // dictionary of module
    PyObject * dict = PyModule_GetDict(module);

    // get a pointer to the function in the script
    PyObject * func = PyDict_GetItemString(dict, "my_script");

    // call the function
    TestC * my_ptr = new TestC();
    PyObject * pyobj = Py_BuildValue("O", my_ptr);

    // make a tuple of arguments (the numbers 2 and 3)
    PyObject *arguments = PyTuple_New(1);
    PyTuple_SetItem(arguments, 0, Py_BuildValue("O", my_ptr));

    PyObject * result = PyObject_CallObject(func, arguments);

    // show the result
    printf("Result of call: %ld\n", PyInt_AsLong(result));

    // clean up
    Py_DECREF(result);
    Py_DECREF(module);

    Py_Finalize();

    return 0;
}


From hufman at cobalty.com  Wed Mar 10 22:32:29 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 21:32:29 -0600
Subject: Cgi: Print Text files with wordwrap!
References: <Xns94A8A266DCF19GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<Xns94A8F2937636daleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>
Message-ID: <Xns94A8DB1DC9C7FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>

"Dale Strickland-Clak" <dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xns94A8F2937636daleriverhallsystems at 192.168.8.150: 

> 
> If you send plain text, it will be presented exactly how you send it,
> line breaks and all.
> 
> If you want it to wrap to the browser window, you have to make it look
> like HTML. The bare minimum you can get away with is <p> tags where
> you want new paragraphs - plus a head and a tail.
> 
> 
> 

Awesome, thanks!


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 10:56:27 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:56:27 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.187.1079798827.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.187.1079798827.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3kdjp$27gt2e$2@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> The CPython VM is intentionally underdocumented and intentionally not part
> of the language spec.  It is still being developed and might radically
> change in the future.  There will probably be minor changes in the next
> release as a result of experiments designed to find combinations of codes
> that dependably run faster on all major platforms.  However, the current
> byte code is described in the Library Ref as part of the doc for the dis
> (assembly) module.

This is the answer I was looking for... :-)  Thanks, Terry.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 22:11:11 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:11:11 +0100
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<mailman.200.1080774523.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5e1n60t667mguekga3ipggag8jg7742ig5@4ax.com>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:08:38 -0800, Michael
<mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:

>
>>This is actually better than top-posting. At least the reading
>>direction is _consistently_ upwards, rather than requiring people to
>>leap forwards and back through the post in a desperate attempt to find
>>the clues they need.
>>
>That'd get really interesting when posting code examples. Why on Earth 
>would you leap forwards and back through a top post to find anything? 
>You start reading at the top and read until you run into the quoted 
>text.

Rubish. You read the top post until you don't know what it's talking
about, and then you have to read stuff in the quoted text to find the
context, then you return to the top until you hit the next problem,
and then you're back to the quoted text again and so on.


> You only read the quoted text if you're curious to see which 
>specific message this message was in reply to.

My memory isn't that good that I can remember everything about some
post written days ago just from identifying which particular one it
was. Even if I did, I won't necessarily understand the logical
connections between parts of the reply and parts of the replied-to
message unless they are ordered such that each piece of the reply
follows a quote identifying the specific thing it is replying to.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 15:05:07 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:05:07 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0rf150de4cstjav3a8ndp84ficgmnaq24s@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:50:57 +0000, Peter Hickman
<peter at semantico.com> wrote:

>If what motivates you is the 'ultimate language' and think you can get 
>closer to it by adding special characters then you are going to be very 
>disappointed. The history of computing is littered with 'ultimate 
>languages' that have had much more thought put into them than adding 
>special characters to an existing language (C++ comes to mind) and they 
>all have in common the fact that they failed.

Perl seems to be a better example of too much syntax.

>To be fair C++ was never touted as an 'ultimate language' but you get 
>the picture.
>
>If you feel python has a significant flaw then say what it is and how 
>you believe it would best be addressed. Using @ as a special character 
>is just adding sugar to the syntax.

It's not a single flaw.  In fact I can't imagine a single flaw that
would justify adding a special symbol.  It only makes sense if adding
the symbol *improves* consistency by reducing the number of syntactic
variations, compared to adding each new feature with a *different*
syntax or unique keyword.

If someone new to Python saw a function with '@return' instead of
'return', it would be pretty easy to remember this has something to do
with efficiency, just think of it as a normal function until you start
writing your own code.

There is an optimum balance between too much syntax and too little.  I
think Python is pretty close to that optimum.  There are a few things
I would eliminate, and a few things I would add.  Same with Ruby.  I
like their use of the @ symbol, but I can't see the advantage of their
cryptic 'code blocks' over a normal Python function.  I don't like
their subtle distinction between single and double-quoted strings.  

Much of this is just personal preference, but in some cases you can
see a real advantage.  I like their simple but powerful string
methods.  You can put a lot on one line without sacrificing clarity.
See http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython for details.  I
think we can learn some things from Ruby, which after all, was
developed after a few years of learning from Python.

-- Dave



From justin.worrall at morganstanley.com  Fri Mar 12 16:14:38 2004
From: justin.worrall at morganstanley.com (justin worrall)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 13:14:38 -0800
Subject: python win32/excel problem
Message-ID: <e485a8cd.0403121314.fa8d9e3@posting.google.com>

Hi,
?
I have a very simple python win32 example (gleaned from the O'Reilly
book on Win32 programming for Python), of an Excel client with a COM
server. Essentially I have three VB buttons - start_server,
stop_server and test_server. The first two do the obvious, the last
takes inputs from two cells in the excel sheets, then passes them to
the python server which adds them together and returns the result an
Excel message dialog.
?
Everything works just fine, except when I make changes to the python
code. The changes get picked up in Excel, but only when I quit the
entire Excel application. Obviously the COM object is being cached
somewhere?- I am guessing that setting "Server = Nothing" only
overrides the reference, rather than destroying the object instance.
?
Any ideas on how to get VB to pick up a new python instance without
quitting?
?
thanks,
?
Justin
?
<<python>>
?
import pythoncom
import win32com.server.register
?
class simpleServer:
???
??? _public_methods_=['add']
??? _reg_progid_="jhw.simpleServer"
??? _reg_clsid_=str(pythoncom.CreateGuid())
?
??? def add(self,a,b):
??????? return a+b
???
if __name__=='__main__':
??? win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(simpleServer)
?
<<VB>>
?
Public SimpleServer As Object

Sub start_server()
??? On Error GoTo start_server_error
??? If Not (SimpleServer Is Nothing) Then
??????? MsgBox "server already running"
??????? Exit Sub
??? End If
??? Set SimpleServer = CreateObject("jhw.simpleServer")
??? MsgBox "server started"
??? Exit Sub
start_server_error:
??? MsgBox "error starting server"
??? End
End Sub

Sub stop_server()
??? If (SimpleServer Is Nothing) Then
??????? MsgBox "server not running"
??????? Exit Sub
??? End If
??? Set SimpleServer = Nothing
??? MsgBox "server stopped"
End Sub

Sub test_server()
??? On Error GoTo test_server_error
??? Dim a, b, r As Double
??? a = Range("a").Value
??? b = Range("b").Value
??? r = SimpleServer.Add(a, b)
??? MsgBox "result = " & r
??? Exit Sub
test_server_error:
??? MsgBox "error testing server - it's probably not running"
??? End
End Sub


From JoeSmith at IDontWantSpam.bogus.bogusaddress.com  Mon Mar 29 01:37:07 2004
From: JoeSmith at IDontWantSpam.bogus.bogusaddress.com (JoeSmith)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:37:07 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <nuP9c.43903$qZ1.38510@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>


I have not not run into problems with tabs.  I actually agree that it is better 
for indenting because if I want to view it as 2,3,4,5,6,7, or 8 spaces; I just 
change my editor setting.  Also, the file size is smaller.  There would also be 
slightly less parsing to do.  Any, if 3.0 does go to spaces, I will be much 
less likely to use python.

There is probably a reason why I have heard outlook referred to as outhouse.

John Roth wrote:
> The hard fact is, lots of utility programs treat
> tabs in wild and wonderful ways, many of which
> are not under the control of the user. There's
> a reason why the Python standard is spaces, and
> why tabs will be eliminated as an option in 3.0.


From j.r.gao at motorola.com  Mon Mar  1 21:20:21 2004
From: j.r.gao at motorola.com (J.R.)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:20:21 +0800
Subject: Determining the encoding of a text file
References: <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c20r4m$jn$1@newshost.mot.com>


"Rajorshi" <rajorshi at fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8 at posting.google.com...
> Hello!
>  How do I determine the encoding of a text file ? That is,
> given a text file I want to know the encoding it is in
> UTF8 or UTF16 or Latin etc. It would be very helpful if
> you could tell me how to do this in python on Linux. But
> just the method is acceptable.
> Thanks in advance!

The python integrated development environment IDLE, which is distributed
alone with python, shows one approach how to decode a
string. You could find it in the file $PYTHON/lib/idlelib/IOBinding.py, find
the decode().

But it's not perfect, you could integrate with Skip's example writing your
one.
Additional, if you want to guess the Chinese encoding, the perl lib
http://www.mandarintools.com/download/codelib.zip
may be for your reference, it can support GB2312-80, Hz, Big5, UTF-8, etc.

J.R.




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 10 20:06:41 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:06:41 -0800
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
References: <mailman.231.1078936939.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404FBBA1.A8B53E8A@alcyone.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> Another question: If I insert some Chinese characters
> in the sample xml document, then again the same python
> code cannot parse it. It python code got choked
> whenever it hits the 1st Chiese character.
> 
> Python says:
> 
> ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 3,
> column 7
> 
> The problem remains even if I try encoding="UTF-16" or
> encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
> document.
> 
> Note that GB2312 and GBK are Chinese encodings.

If you're getting errors, then the encoding specified in the XML
document type declaration doesn't patch what you've pasted in.  It
matters where these Chinese characters come from, since they're going to
be a part of some encoding and you haven't said what it was; if your
document is UTF-8, you need to paste UTF-8 in.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Love is the true price of love.
    -- George Herbert


From user_77 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 11:29:21 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:29:21 GMT
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com><20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BlCac.364077$B81.5349824@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

> wxPython would be my example of some of the worst (non-existant)
> documentation available for Python while PyGame would be my example of
> some of the best.
>
>


I'll second that (about wxPython)!






From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 23:41:15 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:41:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CAN You help Re: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <4049d999$0$41752$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <20040307044115.61836.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,
I did a little debugging on the help u sent. Heres the
code:

# python code for creating dictionary of words from an
input file
import string, StringIO
import mailbox, email, re
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt


fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

dictpos={}
wordcount={}
#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()


for i, w in enumerate(file('dictionary_index')):
	dictpos[w.strip()]=i
	#print i
	#print w

for w in msg:
	try:
		wordcount[w]+=1
		#print wordcount
	except KeyError:
		wordcount[w]=1
		#print wordcount

for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
	try:
		print dictpos[w],':',c
	except KeyError:
		pass



#print wordcount
#print dictpos
#print '\n'

But this does not give me anything. I get no output at
all. I dont really understand, if this is doing the
matching in the words in the email message with the
words in the dictionary  and "Yes" if it does,  it
should give me the corresponding index.
I have a piece of code, which does check for matching
but the problem as I mentioned, I need the index in
the dictionary not in the index of the word in the
message.

heres the code which gives me the vector, matching the
word in the email message by comparing  with the words
in the dictionary:


import string, StringIO
import mailbox, email, re
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt



#load up external dictionary:
words = open('dictionary_index', 'r').read().split()
dct = {}
for i in xrange(len(words)):
     dct[words[i]] = i

print dct.values()

#make vector:
vector = {}

fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

#a = float(len(fp))

#a = float(len(words_in_body))


#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()

a = float(len(msg))
print a

for i in msg:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1

         except:
             vector[i] = 1

for v,i in enumerate(vector):
    vector[i] /= a
    print v,i, vector[i]
    #; if u want to see the word too that was commmon
    #print v, ":",vector[i]


    #rint "\n"

#1.write(s)
#1.close()





--- Ruud de Jong <ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl> wrote:
> Small but essential correction on my previous post
> 
> Ruud de Jong schreef:
> 
> > dont bother schreef:
> > 
> >> Hi Jong,
> >> Yes I really want the location of the number
> matching
> >> in the dictionary.
> >> This is because I have to input these feature
> vectors
> >> to another program which takes [index: value ]
> where index: is the 
> >> value specific to dictionary.
> >> I dont care about the addition/extension of the
> words
> >> in the dictionary but for now, I really want the
> index
> >> of the word in the dictionary. This is also
> equivalent
> >> to the line number of the word in the dictionary.
> > 
> > 
> > OK. Back to basics. You have:
> > 
> > - a dictionary with one word per line
> > - a message with words that may or may not be
> >   words from the dictionary
> > - another program that takes [index: value] as
> input,
> >   and presumably does something useful.
> > 
> > So, you want to have a program that does the
> following:
> > 
> >   for each dictionary word that is present in the
> message,
> >   output the "index: count", where index is the
> position of the
> >   word in the dictionary, and count is the number
> of times
> >   the word occurs in the message.
> > 
> > Side note: your original program divides the count
> by the
> > total number of words in the message. Since both
> are integers,
> > this division will always give 0. I will ignore
> this division
> > for now, but in the actual program you'll need to
> address that.
> > 
> > Assuming your dictionary is too large to do a
> search to find the
> > position of an individual word, you basically need
> two mappings,
> > both keyed by actual words:
> > 
> > dictpos = {}, which maps dictionary words to
> dictionary positions
> > wordcount = {}, which maps message words to
> frequence counts
> > 
> > dictpos you can fill from your dictionary file:
> > 
> > for i, w in file('dictionary')
> >     dictpos[w.strip()] = i
> 
> This should obviously be:
> 
> for i, w in enumerate(file('dictionary'))
>      dictpos[w.strip()] = i
> 
> > 
> > (strip removes the trailing newline)
> > 
> > wordcount can be filled from the message, like:
> > 
> > for w in msg.split():
> >     try:
> >         wordcount[w] += 1
> >     except KeyError:
> >         wordcount[w] = 1
> > 
> > Now the output can be generated by:
> > 
> > for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
> >     try:
> >         print dictpos[w], ':', c
> >     except KeyError:
> >         pass
> > 
> > This output is not sorted according to dictionary
> position.
> > If you need such sorting, that you'll have to
> capture everything
> > in a list first, and sort list that before
> printing.
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Ruud.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 14:40:10 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:40:10 +0000
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jcgp405a5ifs2jtpba371qdk3q5decof28@4ax.com>

On 8 Mar 2004 07:53:59 -0800, lamote1 at netscape.net (chads) wrote:

>How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
>simple example?
>
>union {
>   struct {
>      int size;
>      float time;
>   } var1;
>   struct {
>      char initial;
>      float time;
>   } var2;
>};

First thought is that you simply don't need it.

One reason for using a union is simply to save on memory from
redundant fields. If this is the case, Pythons dynamic nature means
that you can add or remove any field you want from most objects at any
time. For instance...

  class myobject (object) :
    pass

  o = myobject()

  #  Set first pair of fields
  o.size = 1
  o.type = 2.3

  #  Replace with second pair of fields
  del o.size, o.type

  o.initial = 'a'
  o.time    = 3.4

The memory savings for this are probably not a big concern, but there
are benefits in terms of introspection - the fact that a field isn't
present can be useful information in itself.

OTOH, if the reason is to get overlapping binary representations, this
kind of memory layout dependence is intentionally not an issue in
Python. Though there is a 'struct' library for those jobs where
dealing with packed binary data is essential, such as handling binary
file formats.
  

-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Mar 12 09:53:55 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:53:55 +0800
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7iekry5d6k.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Arthur" == Arthur  <ajsiegel at optonline.com> writes:

    Arthur> I am not following this argument.  The surprise, specifically,
    Arthur> is that I don't think of myself as having declared "t" as a
    Arthur> variable.  it is don't magically, as a placeholder and for a
    Arthur> very specific purpose.  So I would expect it to go away outside
    Arthur> of the " [ " and " ] " by equal and opposite magic.

I remember I've read that this more proper scoping for list comprehension
will take effect in a future version of Python.

Regards,
Isaac.


From spam_bait101 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 21:53:18 2004
From: spam_bait101 at yahoo.com (sb)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 18:53:18 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <221dd125.0403041853.2c6eb5d6@posting.google.com>

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list at python.org>...
> > > I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and
> > > about editing python with vim.
>  
> > Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
> > vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
> > docs, books or tutorials)
> 
> Just do:
> 
>    :h python
> 

Thanks, but that is more like a very abbreviated tutorial. Where can I
can the real documentation? It seems like the python built into vim is
different. For example, doing

:py import sys
:py dir(sys)

produces no output. Odd. Same with

:py import vim
:py dir(vim)


Anyway, I want the real documentation for the "vim" module accessible
from vim. What classes, functions, values are defined there, etc


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 23:25:20 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:25:20 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3odrv$29hnmn$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thanks for all your replies, folks.  Picked up quite a few
things in this thread...


From itamar at itamarst.org  Mon Mar  8 11:59:46 2004
From: itamar at itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:59:46 -0500
Subject: PyCon 2004 call for volunteers
Message-ID: <1078764978.25461.75.camel@sheriffpony>

PyCon needs your help! We need volunteers to run the registration desk.
Volunteers will help register conference goers, give out information
about talk locations and so on. In addition to knowing they've helped
make the conference a success, volunteers will get a black staff
t-shirt.

You can sign up at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PyconRegistrationDesk2004





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 14 02:51:13 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:51:13 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org><40514A48.50907@domain.invalid><09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com><7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost><8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com><mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org><eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com><mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org><fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com><mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c312tf$sps$1@sea.gmane.org>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3 at 4ax.com...
> Just to make sure I understand this, I think what you are saying is
> that if I have a module M1 that defines a value x = 3.1, it will be
> impossible to keep track of the number of references to M1.x because
> the object '3.1' may have other references to it from other modules
> which use the same constant 3.1.  This really does make it impossible
> to do a complete reload.

Currently, this is possible but not actual for floats, but it is actual, in
CPython, for some ints and strings.  For a fresh 2.2.1 interpreter

>>> sys.getrefcount(0)
52
>>> sys.getrefcount(1)
50
>>> sys.getrefcount('a')
7

> Warning:  References to objects in the old module still exist:

> creating direct (not fully-qualified) references to objects within any
> module that is likely to be reloaded, and be assured that we will get
> a warning if we miss one.

A module is a namespace created by external code, resulting in a namespace
with a few special attributes like __file__, __name__, and __doc__.  A
namespace contains names, or if you will, name bindings.  It does not,
properly speaking, contain objects -- which are in a separate, anonymous
data space.  One can say, reasonably, that functions and classes defined in
a module 'belong' to that module, and one could, potentially, track down
and replace all references to such.

As you have already noticed, you can make this easier by always accessing
the functions and classess via the module (mod.fun(), mod.clas(), etc.) -- 
which mean no anonymous references via tuple, list, or dict slots, etc.

However, there is still the problem of instances and their __class__
attribute.  One could, I believe (without trying it) give each class in a
module an __instances__ list that is updated by each call to __init__.
Then super_reload() could grab the instances lists, do a normal reload, and
then update the __instances__ attributes of the reloaded classes and the
__class__ attributes of the instances on the lists.  In other words,
manually rebind instances to new classes and vice versa.

Another possibility (also untried) might be to reimport the module as
'temp' (for instance) and then manully replace, in the original module,
each of the function objects and other constants and manually update each
of the class objects.  Then instance __class__ attributes would remain
valid.

Either method is obviously restricted to modules given special treatment
and planning.  Either update process also needs to be 'atomic' from the
viewpoint of Python code.  A switch to another Python thread that accesses
the module in the middle of the process would not be good.  There might
also be other dependencies I am forgetting, but the above should be a
start.

Terry J. Reedy






From abenbarbk at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar  6 12:32:31 2004
From: abenbarbk at bellsouth.net (Abe and Barb K.)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: Question please
Message-ID: <001801c403a1$012beb50$6500a8c0@Barbara>

I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2 with win32 extensions software.

I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if I can just remove this software without affecting anything in my system as it is taking up space if I'm not going to use it?

Thanks so much.
Barbara K.
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From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 13 05:00:39 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:00:39 +0000
Subject: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
References: <mailman.342.1079151943.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s1j550ls1bf8vvv2ut1heugsqg7p30pk2e@4ax.com>


I'm afraid I'm having some trouble figuring out what you mean...


On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:25:32 +0000, "shalendra chhabra"
<shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote:

>If one has a string and can this string be assigned to a dictionary and then 
>we can apply the sorting methods of dictionary on it.

You can't assign a string to a dictionary. You can assign a string to
a variable (which may or may not have previously held a dictionary) or
you can store a string in a dictionary.

If you intend to store the string in a dictionary, do you intend it to
be the key or the data? If the key, where does the data come from? If
the data, where does the key come from?

>For example: the information in my itemset can be treated as a string.
>
>itemset{}

Do you mean 'itemset = {}' ?

>itemset=str(key[i])+str(value[i]) #done over a loop and and then some how 
>can get everything concatenated

I'm pretty confused now, but let's make some guesses...


When you use the '=' operator, you are binding an object to a
variable. Any object previously bound to the variable is unbound
first. If no other references exist, it is discarded.

Thus, on running...

somevar = {}
somevar = "hello"

The second line does not add anything to the dictionary. The string
replaces the dictionary, and the dictionary is deleted.

If you want to add something to a dictionary, the usual method would
be...

somevar = {}              #  get an initial empty dictionary
somevar ['key'] = 'data'  #  add an item to the dictionary

You need both the key and the data. A dictionary maps keys to values,
much as a real dictionary maps words to their definitions.

Your 'key' and 'value' identifiers aren't defined anywhere. I'm
guessing that they're supposed to be accessing the keys and values
from the dictionary. To do this properly...

1.  You need to use the 'object.method' notation to access methods
    of objects. Python doesn't try to guess which object you intended.

2.  You can't access keys and values out of a dictionary using an
    integer loop index. You can, however, get a list of all the keys
    to iterate through. And when you have a key, you can access the
    data associated with it.

So lets try to put some of these elements together...

>>> #  Define a dictionary mapping some strings to integers
... d={"hello":1,"goodbye":2}
>>> d
{'hello': 1, 'goodbye': 2}
>>> #  List the keys
... d.keys()
['hello', 'goodbye']
>>> #  Show the data associated with one of the keys
... d ["hello"]
1
>>> #  Build a string describing the 'hello' item
... "hello : "+str(d["hello"])
'hello : 1'
>>> #  Create a list of strings describing the items in the dictionary
... [str(i)+" : "+str(d[i]) for i in d]
['hello : 1', 'goodbye : 2']
>>> #  Create a description of the whole dictionary
... ', '.join ([str(i)+" : "+str(d[i]) for i in d])
'hello : 1, goodbye : 2'



Does any of this help, or am I barking up the wrong tree?


>If I am not mistaken the itemset is now a string.
>How can I assign this itemset back to a dictionary? Is there any way?
>If yes! then we can apply the sort methods for increasing order and for 
>decreasing order you have given me the function already.

You can't sort a dictionary.

I suspect that my previous post left out too much explanation. Let's
examine that function again...

def pairs_by_decreasing_key (p_Dict) :
   """
   Takes a dictionary and derives a list of (key, value) tuples
   in decreasing order of key.
   """
   tmp = p_Dict.keys (); tmp.sort (); tmp.reverse ()

   return [(i, p_Dict [i]) for i in tmp]


This function contains a documentation string and four statements. The
four statements are...

1.  tmp = p_Dict.keys ()
2.  tmp.sort ()
3.  tmp.reverse ()
4.  return [(i, p_Dict [i]) for i in tmp]

The semicolons just allowed me to pack three statements on one line.
The following would mean the same thing...

The first statement gets a list of keys from the dictionary that is
passed in as a parameter. The result is not a dictionary - it is a
list.

For example...

>>> {"a":1,"b":2,"c":3}.keys()
['a', 'c', 'b']

The list of keys here is ['a', 'b', 'c'] because those are the keys
for the three items in the dictionary.

The second statement sorts the list. It does not affect the dictionary
in any way.

Similarly, the third statement reverses the order of the list and does
not affect the dictionary in any way.

The fourth statement constructs another list using a list
comprehension. It may be easier to understand without this...

def pairs_by_decreasing_key (p_Dict) :
   """
   Takes a dictionary and derives a list of (key, value) tuples
   in decreasing order of key.
   """
   tmp = p_Dict.keys (); tmp.sort (); tmp.reverse ()

   #  The following lines give the same effect as the
   #  list comprehension in the earlier version
   tmp2 = []

   for i in tmp :
     tmp2.append ( (i, p_Dict [i]) )

   return tmp2


I've tried to provide some hints, but I'm still pretty confused about
what you need. Does any of this help in any way?


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 17 00:36:14 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 05:36:14 GMT
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5fn9s.dhn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004 at reader1.panix.com>, Roy Smith wrote:
> I was once asked on an interview how I would tell, inside of a C 
> program, if I was on a big endian or a small endian machine.  I said I'd 
> create a union of a long and a char[4], set the long equal to 1, and see 
> which char it showed up in.  The interviewer looked shocked, thought 
> about it for a while, and finally said something like, "yeah, I guess 
> that would work".
> 
> To this day, I have no idea what other plan he had in mind.

unsigned short x = 1;
if (x == ntohs(x)) printf("Network byte order!\n");
else printf("Something else!\n");

Joe


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Fri Mar 26 07:20:44 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:20:44 +0100
Subject: changing the python executable icon
References: <mailman.442.1080293474.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94B889880FA9Dcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Hey, sarmin kho !

> this is my first time using the py2exe to create python executable...
> it came out with an executable file with an icon that i would like to
> change... 

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/CustomIcons

Good Luck

Harald


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 21 15:29:48 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:29:48 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <105rush64n1trba@news.supernews.com>

"Nicolas Fleury" <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> wrote in message
news:Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038 at weber.videotron.net...
> Marco Bubke wrote:
> > def foo(x, y) as staticmethode: pass
> >
> > Define foo with arguments x and y as staticmethode.
> >
> > Is Python now C++? Mabe I miss something why this syntax is wrong.
>
> Personnally, I prefer the "as" syntax to the other proposed (and by a
> large margin).  However, I feel that it is making the language more
> complex and I'm far from sure it's worth the effort.  I've given some
> Python courses, and the first reaction when showing a class with some
> methods is something like "so I guess when the first parameter is not
> named 'self' it makes a class method?".  So I have to explain it's not
> the case, etc.
>
> If easing the creation of class methods is so important, I would prefer
> a more radical approach with a end result that would be more intuitive
> to newcomers:
> - Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self"
> in next versions of Python.
> - In a future major version of Python, 3 or 4, self becomes a keyword
> and a first parameter named otherwise implies a class method (I
> understand it could mean a lot of changes in code not using self).
>
> Regards,
>
> Nicolas

I personally think that self not only should be a keyword,
it should not be among the parameters at all. However, I
seem to be in a distinct minority about that.

However, I think you've got class methods mixed up with
static methods. Class methods require the first parameter
to be the class (sometimes spelled klas for some reason),
while static methods are the ones that don't have either an
instance or a class as the first parameter.

John Roth




From halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com  Wed Mar  3 21:07:09 2004
From: halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com (leo)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:07:09 +1100
Subject: how to get EXIF data from a jpg
References: <c22076$1f5b$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
	<4044a4de$0$28631$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c262vn$2tgj$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

ta a lot. EXIF.py is a beauty!

leo

"Shrom" <shrom at admin.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:4044a4de$0$28631$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
>
> "leo" <halloleo at nospam.myrealbox.com> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:c22076$1f5b$1 at otis.netspace.net.au...
> > hi there
> >
> > how can i get in python EXIF data (particularky the shouuting time) of a
> > jpg?
> >
> > is there a special module around?
> >
> > thanks, leo
>
> There is a nice EXIF Python module here :
> http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/11/13/exif
>
>




From chris-usenet at hedonism.cx  Wed Mar 10 10:20:10 2004
From: chris-usenet at hedonism.cx (Christian Vogel)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:20:10 +0100
Subject: Reading from stdin
References: <c2nab0$lr7$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c2nbna$1vp1rv$1@ID-101457.news.uni-berlin.de>

C GIllespie wrote:
> efficient C program :). Actually, I would like to read-a-line/
> print-a-line/ read-a-line/etc

probably both your C- and your python scripts use buffered output. So the
C-program will not print line-by-line but rather en-block after many bytes
of output have accumulated.

In your C-program, do this (that's most likely your problem):

        printf("%f\n",x); /* print valuable data */
        fflush(stdout);   /* make sure it's written to stdout */

In your python-program, do this (that's probably not your problem):

        print "%f"%x        # print valueable data
        sys.stdout.flush()  # make sure it's written to stdout

   Chris




From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 07:48:43 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:48:43 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <4067C167.5050708@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<4067C167.5050708@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <40681B2B.2080106@stackless.com>

Michael wrote:

> 
>> The basic difficulty with tabs is that there are a huge
>> number of programs "in the wild" that treat tabs
>> differently. Unless you're completely in control of all
>> the programs that will ever be used to edit and display
>> your program, using tabs will cause formatting errors
>> somewhere, to someone under some circumstance
>> that you never thought of.
>>  
>>
> Which programs? I find spaces to cause weird issues. Especially if you 
> use some half assed editor that uses variable width fonts.

I think there are enough editors available to be able
to use one with fixed font.

>> The problems with mixed tabs and spaces are even
>> worse: you can lose indentation and totally mess up
>> the program so it won't even compile if you use the
>> wrong tools on such a program.
>>  
>>
> That'd just be bad programming to use different formatting standards 
> within the same program. At least within the same file.

You gave the best example by yourself: Use different editors,
even with fixed fonts, and you will wonder how they try
to "optimize" your tabs. Some try to help you with the indentation,
but they use tabs, even if you are not aware of it.
I don't say it is a hard problem. But it is an extra complication
which consumes a reasonable amount of Python code to check/repair,
like tabnanny.

>> This is the basic reason why the current standard for
>> library modules is 4 space indentation; it's the only
>> thing that is, for all practical purposes, guaranteed to
>> work for everyone, with any editor, formatter,
>> renderer and printer out there.
>>  
>>
> I don't see how it is any better than a standard of always using a 
> single tab or space for indention. I hate code that requires me to press 
> multiple space or delete keys to change the block level of a line of 
> code. I'm a coder and therefore am lazy. Why press four keys when I 
> could press one?

Becuase there are editors which default to tab==4 spaces
and some with tab==8 spaces. I have this problem still all
over the place in the C code of the Python implementation.
I like tab==4 spaces quite much, and it is the default for
Visual Studio. But sources which are edited in Linux most of
the time, seem to default to tab==8 spaces.
It is very convenient, I agree. But I would like to teach
my editor to convert to tabs for editing only, and then
change them back to spaces on saving. :-)
> 
>> Python is not Perl. Python's philosophy has never
>> been to provide several different ways of doing things
>> just to provide different ways. There needs to be a
>> demonstrated benefit to the different ways, and tabs
>> don't make that cut. If you want the space savings,
>> ziping the file will do much better.
>>  
>>
> I'm not a fan of multiple ways but I think it's different to remove a 
> feature than to add a feature. Breaking existing code for pointless 
> reasons is bad. I'd rather they keep tab support than spaces but since 
> both have a historical support I'd be wary of removing either. Again 
> zipping files is adding additional steps which IMO is bad from a lazy 
> coder point of view. The lazy coder standard of coding keeps code 
> simple. Smaller isn't a significant problem in most cases.

Well, I don't think it is about removing a feature, but
about removing a problem. Which basically cannot be completely
solved, as long as tabs and different editors exist...

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 22 11:30:01 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:30:01 +0000
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405f0803$0$15618$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <405f148a$0$10522$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Python advertises a "batteries included" approach to the library which
> means it's supposed to include most of the stuff that users need,
> instead of making them download the stuff from random places.  

The 'batteries included' stuff is more a distribution / packaging issue 
than the standard library. At least coming from Tcl where we have a 
'batteries included' distribution including all sorts of nice things. 
However this does not mean that they are part of the standard library.

Tcl works find without an XML parser, but the 'batteries included' 
distribution has an XML parser which makes the distribution much more 
convenient.

> Python aims to be competitive with other languages and implementations
> including (e.g.) Java, which come with large libraries.  Unless it
> wants to retreat from aiming for the big time, it needs to also have
> thorough library coverage, even if that means more work.

Simple feature / library count as a measure of progress is flawed. Big 
time need not equate with bloat, besides Perl has a massive library of 
modules (CPAN) but they are not part of the standard library and this 
has not held Perl back.

We need to recognize the divide between language features and a basic 
distribution. A 'batteries included' distribution of Python, a la Tcl, 
which includes a selection of useful libraries is a good idea but there 
is no need to make it part of the standard library.

I want my Python in a Nutshell to be a single volume not an encyclopedia.


From jfranz at neurokode.com  Tue Mar 30 03:50:30 2004
From: jfranz at neurokode.com (Jon Franz)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 00:50:30 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com><95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<6gS9c.58150$cx5.19190@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <da6ee54a.0403300050.6a7ded1d@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<6gS9c.58150$cx5.19190 at fed1read04>...
> Speed tests on Prothon will be meaningless now.  The code is chock full of
> debug stuff and is not optimized, either by humans or compiler.  We mean it
> when we say pre-alpha.

Not necessarily - I'm not looking for raw performance, but rather
scalability.  Many of the changes you've made in Prothon could either
improve or hurt scalability and CPU utilization in multithreaded
scenarios.  Of course, as a pre-alpha, no full conclusions can be
drawn.  But for example, what if Prothon scaled as well (or just
within an order of magnitude)  as standard Python?  Considering the
non-optimized nature of Prothon, that would bode very well, and could
start discussions in the Python community as to whether your sort of
APR based system with GC and multiple interpreters with native threads
is something to look at.  After all, I do believe that the last time
removing the global interpreter lock was seriously pondered and tests
were done, the APR was not considered (possibly due to it not existing
in a usable state at the time), nor was moving to such a stackless
backend on the table at the same time.

  Anyway, I'm busy with client work, and looking for more clients, so
I don't have the time to write any tests write now; perhaps by the
time I do (or someone else does) Prothon will be more mature.

~Jon Franz
NeuroKode Labs, LLC


From garryknight at gmx.net  Sat Mar 13 07:40:18 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:40:18 +0000
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
References: <mailman.340.1079150274.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<Dlw4c.789400$X%5.393213@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <1079181619.18334.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>

In message <Dlw4c.789400$X%5.393213 at pd7tw2no>, midtoad wrote:

> s2 = string.split(s1,',')
...
>         a,b = string.split(item,":")
...

Some further processing will probably be necessary. On my system (Python 2.3
under Mandrake Linux) your code produces the following:

Dictionary is:  {' name2': ' value2', ' name3': ' value3', 'name1': '
value1'}

In other words, it leaves extra spaces in all values and in all keys except
'name1'. Putting the following lines after the a,b = string.split(item,":")
will cure that.

        a = a.strip()
        b = b.strip()

This can be shortened to: a,b = a.strip(),b.strip()
Or, if you're not bothered about doing the 'print mydict[a]' you could
shorten the code by ignoring the above and putting the strip() calls in the
assignment statement:

        mydict[a.strip()] = b.strip()

In my opinion, the first method is the best as it makes it very obvious
what's going on.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From jolsen at mail2world.com  Fri Mar 19 06:11:43 2004
From: jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 03:11:43 -0800
Subject: Is there a map or graph module?
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6b17fa95.0403190311.2fcd1df4@posting.google.com>

lilyth at umich.edu (Lilith) wrote in message news:<75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7 at posting.google.com>...
> Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
> which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
> finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
> through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
> would be less parsimonious.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!
> 
> D

http://www.research.att.com/~mohri/fsm/doc4/fsmpy.html

J


From mickel at csc.fi  Fri Mar 19 05:35:15 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:35:15 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Sentence splitter module?
In-Reply-To: <c3eaqg$ool$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.151.1079682785.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3eaqg$ool$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403191231480.32252@sampo.csc.fi>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Josiah Carlson wrote:

> > Is anyone aware of a freely available sentence splitter module for Python?
> > It does not have to be anything fancy, but it should be able to split
> > written text in most European languages on regular punctuation mark
> > combinations followed by whitespace and possible supply a list of
> > abbreviations that override the plain punctuation rules.
> >
> > All advice appreciated.
>
> Check out this thread:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=c2d741%24m3t%241%40news.service.uci.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26safe%3Doff%26q%3Dsentence%2Bjosiah%2Bgroup%253Acomp.lang.python.*%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

Thanks Josiah. I didn't have anything more important to do, so I
implemented a SenteceSplitter class from scratch:

http://staff.csc.fi/mickel/code/python/SentenceSplitter.py

I have just made some preliminary testing on Linux and Python 2.3, but it
seems to work OK.

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From http  Mon Mar 22 19:35:06 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 16:35:06 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wsL7c.34390$%06.30789@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7xr7vkbdtx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jay O'Connor <jayoconnor at earthlink.net> writes:
> > 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> > 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> > 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> > 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> > 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> > 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> > 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> > 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> > 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> > 10) ... well you get the idea.
> > Which, if any, would you write in Python?
> 
> 6 and 8, maybe 3...and 10 of course

I think 6 and 8 would depend on decimal arithmetic; some modules for
that have been proposed but nothing is released yet, afaik.

I can't see answering 3 without also answering 2.  


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 20 03:10:58 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:10:58 -0800
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<JTS6c.15939$Bg.5379@fed1read03>
	<7x1xnodjx2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <405BFC92.E1C8C186@alcyone.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Try n.update("help\n").

Right.  For Amy:  You can suppress the newline on echo with the -n
option, by the way:

max at oxygen:~% echo -n help | md5sum
657f8b8da628ef83cf69101b6817150a  -

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ We are circumstances of our birth.
    -- Sade Adu


From mb at muenster.de  Wed Mar 24 16:13:47 2004
From: mb at muenster.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:13:47 GMT
Subject: Sending ICMP Packets
References: <mailman.276.1080044600.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4061f9cb.2322781@news.muenster.de>

[Andreas Pauley <python-list at qbcon.com>]

>Does anyone have some simple example code that will ping a host?

Jeremy Hylton has one at his site:

http://www.python.org/~jeremy/python.html


mb - Martin Bless


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 12 13:37:35 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 18:37:35 GMT
Subject: strings question
References: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <c2t01e$21u31g$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote:
> Dear People,
> 
> If I am given two strings, named foo and bar, what is the most elegant
> way to create a string object whose name is the value of foo and whose
> value is the value of bar? I have done some searching + looking in my
> introductory textbook "Learning Python" but have not come up with an
> answer yet.
> 
> Thanks.                                                      Faheem.

Read the doc on 'eval' and 'exec'.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From http  Mon Mar 22 23:14:47 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 20:14:47 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhvnfba.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403211310.15764495@posting.google.com>
	<7x4qshn64t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<fd5u50lqcbhtfr1r92n7lahmk3mn1npv5n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7x3c809p3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
> I'm still curious as to the answer to my very simple and basic
> question:  Are there any examples that show a *non-subjective*
> difference in a physically meaningful result between one PRNG and
> another?  By "physically meaningful" I mean to include things like
> means, standard deviations, correlations between two distributions,
> but rule out some measure that would only mean something to a
> mathematician.  By "non-subjective" I mean a difference that can be
> observed in a repeatable fashion, where the statistical significance
> is not always at the edge when you repeat the experiment with more
> trials.

Tim gave a good answer for stuff like physics simulations.  Another
answer might be in terms of something like a computer game: you're
playing poker online with the cards dealt by a server programmed in
Python using some PRNG.  Both players trust that the server isn't
cheating, and both have a complete copy of the server source code and
all the data that was on it at the start of the game except the PRNG's
initial seed, and are permitted to use that info in any way they can.
Since you're playing for a US$ 250,000 jackpot (sites like
partypoker.com routinely run online tournaments with prizes that
size), you must assume that your opponent has a team of mathemeticians
analyzing the PRNG algorithm and all its previous observed output, in
order to get some probabilistic edge in guessing what your cards are.
If they fail to get that probabilistic edge, your chances are even,
but if they succeed, they take you to the cleaners.  I would call that
a non-sujective difference ;-).  

Another simulation example: you're trying to program a computer to
play poker or backgammon, using neural nets, genetic algorithms, or
whatever the AI buzzword of the week is.  You train the AI by having
it play a zillion simulated games against itself and eventually it's
playing very well.  Has it really tuned itself for the game, or has it
somehow modelled the PRNG and figured out how to guess the next card?
Simulating systems with this kind of emergent behavior can make
heavier demands on PRNG's than simulating random gas molecules.

The point is, a pure statistical analysis of the swirling particles in
the universe may predict the existence of stars, galaxies, planets,
and maybe even living organisms, but normally won't treat emergent
characteristics that lead to things like computers and trombones.  If
you're trying to build a laser cannon to protect your house from
meteors, it's one thing to calculate the number of stray asteroids
whose trajectories might randomly intersect your house and build your
laser accordingly, but a really good defense system has to allow that
someone may be aiming stuff at you deliberately.  Similarly, a really
good PRNG has to resist deliberate attempts to predict its output or
even to notice that the output isn't perfectly random.

The modern definition of a good PRNG basically says there should be no
polynomial-time algorithm for distinguishing the PRNG from a true
random source with probability better than chance.  There's a body of
theoretical CS work that's been done on this subject.  See the
pseudorandomness chapter of Goldreich's "Foundations of Cryptography" at

   ftp://theory.lcs.mit.edu/pub/people/oded/BookFrag/part3N.ps

if you want to see the details.

Of course nobody has ever been able to demonstrate the existence of a
good PRNG, since that runs smack into the P vs NP problem.  However,
there are solid results showing how to build PRNG's from secure
primitives (e.g. SHA) if we're willing to assume the security claims
for those primitives.  That seems to be about what the current state
of the art is.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Mar  2 04:00:06 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:00:06 -0000 
Subject: get notepad on windows to front via tcp-server
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434739@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>1)
>Is there some way to make notepad to become the front window when it
>is started from within a tcp-server, using something like
>
>os.system("notepad") or
>os.system("start /w notepad")
>
>Using these methods from a python shell works as expected, but using a
>tcp-client/server construct gives me notepad in the rear.

There is -- as far as I know -- no switch you can pass to notepad
 (or any other application I know about) which will force it to
 become the foreground window.

If you can get the window handle (depends a bit on how you launch
 the app and/or how much you can guarantee about its title), you
 could use the technique outlined here:

http://www.swissdelphicenter.ch/torry/showcode.php?id=261

The essential bits are the BringWindowToTop and SetForegroundWindow
 functions which are available via the win32gui module of pywin32.
 But you do have to find the window handle first. SetForegroundWindow
 has a number of restrictions which explain the rest of the code
 in the example. See here for explanations:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/winui/winui/windowsuserinterface/win
dowing/windows/windowreference/windowfunctions/setforegroundwindow.asp

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar 21 17:05:06 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:05:06 -0800
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F35@opus.amorhq.net>

I wrote:
> > I think if I were to write my own version today in pure Python,
> > it'd be invoked as: limit(object, lower, upper), where 
> <object> could be
> > an iterable. I see that as a much more common use case; 
> that is, mapping
> > the same pair of boundaries to multiple items.

and Pierre Rouleau replied:
> Interesting.  I had a simple one written in pure Python that was just 
> checking the type of object to determine if it was a sequence
> Agreed.  I had writte a pure Python one where I was looking for the 
> object type with type(object).
> 
> def restrain(theObject, lowerBound, upperBound):
>      if type(theObject) in [types.ListType, types.TupleType]:
>          return map(lambda val,theMin,theMax: 
> min(max(val,theMin),theMax) , theObject, lowerBound, upperBound)
>      else:
>          return  min(max(theObject, lowerBound), upperBound)
> 
> However,
> 
> 1) I don't like using type(theObject) to check if it is a sequence 
> because that does not allow iterable objects.
> 2) It does not allow the use case you just mentionned where the same 
> boundary is applied to every member set.
> 
> 
> So I wonder:
> 
> 1) what's the easiest way to find if an object is iterable?  
> There is no 
> 'isiterable()' built in.  Would it be to try iterate over it and cath 
> the potential exception or is there a better way?

First, rather than import the "types" module, you can now use
isinstance:

def restrain(theObject, lowerBound, upperBound):
     if isinstance(theObject, (list, tuple)):

...which is much cleaner.


Second, there's the question of "what is an iterable"? Some solutions:

1. Several contexts use type() or isinstance() as above to determine
this; however, you're limited in those situations to list, tuple, and
subclasses of them.

2. Some have recommended a try/except format, like:
    try:
        for a in obj:
            treat_as_instance(a)
    except TypeError:
        treat_as_instance(obj)

    However, this suffers from the fact that "for a in obj" works on
strings, which isn't always the desired behavior.

3. Check for the presence of the __iter__ method:
    if hasattr(obj, '__iter__'):
        treat_as_iterable(obj)
    else:
        treat_as_instance(obj)

    ...which, as we can see from the following, leaves out strings, but
catches classes which "emulate container types":

>>> class C(object):
...   bunch = []
... 	def __iter__(self):
... 		return iter(self.bunch)
... 	
>>> for thing in [], (), C(), '':
... 	if hasattr(thing, '__iter__'):
... 		print thing
... 		
[]
()
<__main__.C object at 0x011599D0>


...whichever route you take, it should be documented, especially the
results of passing a string.

Third, I'd write limit() to take an optional iterable first argument and
keep the upper and lower fixed for each item in an iterable as:

def limit4(obj, lower=None, upper=None):
    if hasattr(obj, '__iter__'):
        product = []
        for item in obj:
            if upper is not None:
                if item > upper:
                    item = upper
            if lower is not None:
                if item < lower:
                    item = lower
            product.append(item)
        return product
    else:
        if upper is not None:
            if obj > upper:
                obj = upper
        if lower is not None:
            if obj < lower:
                obj = lower
        return obj

Hard-coding less-than and greater-than takes 2/3 the time of min() and
max(). It's ugly having the same code block (the actual comparisons) in
there twice, but the performance boost is significant over having
another function call. One *could* write:

    if hasattr(obj, '__iter__'):
        obj = iter(obj)
    product = []
    for item in obj:
        if upper is not None:
            if item > upper:
                item = upper
        if lower is not None:
            if item < lower:
                item = lower
        product.append(item)
    return product    # ?? always return list?

...but then you have to either: a) return a list even if a list were not
passed in, or b) check __iter__ again and unpack the list at the end of
the function. Neither is very appealing.

If you had a dataset with many large iterables, you would probably go
ahead and incur the overhead of an inner function call, with something
like:

def limit3(obj, lower=None, upper=None):
    if upper is None:
        if lower is None:
            limfunc = lambda i: i
        else:
            def _lower(i):
                if i < lower:
                    i = lower
                return i
            limfunc = _lower
    else:
        if lower is None:
            def _upper(i):
                if i > upper:
                    i = upper
                return i
            limfunc = _upper
        else:
            def _both(i):
                if i < lower:
                    i = lower
                if i > upper:
                    i = upper
                return i
            limfunc = _both
    
    if hasattr(obj, '__iter__'):
        product = []
        for item in obj:
            product.append(limfunc(item))
        return product
    else:
        return limfunc(obj)

...which might squeeze a bit of performance out of the partial
application:

>>> tl = timeit.Timer("limit.limit(data, 1, 5)", "import limit; data =
(0, 3, 6) * 100")
>>> tl.timeit(10000)
7.1556577721471513
>>> t3l = timeit.Timer("limit.limit3(data, 1, 5)", "import limit; data =
(0, 3, 6) * 100")
>>> t3l.timeit(10000)
5.0156802051656086

The next optimization would be determining the performance breakpoint
between limit and limit3, and coding a length check on the first
argument to see which implementation to apply. Then factor the hit of
that length check into your speed calculations, of course. ;) I'm not
much for big-O analysis, as you can see. :D


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org




From puviani at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 12:51:13 2004
From: puviani at hotmail.com (Claudio Puviani)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:51:13 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

"Bootstrap Bill" <wrcousert at yahoo.com> wrote
>
> "Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> wrote in message
> news:404675da at news.tce.com...
> > Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will tell
> > you someplace that it is still in active use.
>
> Radio Shack Level I BASIC?

Nope. I have a TRS-80 Model I with Level I BASIC in my mini-museum. Granted, the
only "use" is to show friends that it still works, but it's still a form of use.
:-)

Claudio Puviani




From ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Mon Mar 22 07:25:25 2004
From: ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:25:25 +0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk>

assaf__ at walla.com wrote:
> If python is indeed suitable for large projects, how common is it to
> actually use if for such purposes? Is there perhaps a list of examples of
> real projects using python?

I would say that Python is very suitable for use in large projects, just the
benefit of automatic memory management is enough to convince me that it
beats C++. The powerful builtin types are another big win - what you would
spend ages coding in C++ is often a no brainer in Python.

Obviously there are downsides, I find the lack of static type checking to
cause some bugs to hide in my code that in other languages would be found
at compile time. In general (and IMHO) though, the pros far outway cons.

There is a decent sized list of companies that use Python at
http://pythonology.org/success.

HTH,
Andrew


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Mar 17 16:41:10 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:41:10 +1300
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13059038F8@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2B35@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[Oliver Kurz]
> I call the uid like this
> 
> uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")

[Donn Cave]
> Have you tried uid("STORE", uid, "+FLAGS", "(\SEEN)")?

I was bitten by this just the other day.  Donn is correct, adding the
surrounding parentheses fixes the problem.

The documentation does mention this in section 11.10.1: "If you want to
avoid having an argument string quoted (eg: the flags argument to "STORE")
then enclose the string in parentheses (eg: r'(\Deleted)')."  It's also
necessary in other situations, for example, doing uid("FETCH", uid,
"BODY.PEEK[]").

IMO, this is not desirable behaviour, since not using the parentheses is
valid IMAP4, and this catches people familiar with IMAP, but not familiar
with imaplib.  The _checkquote function could be smarter and only quote when
the RFC says it's meant to.  OTOH, given the multitude of ways that IMAP
servers choose to ignore the RFC, it's possible this could break some code
with non-standard IMAP servers.

IAC, I opened a bug report: 

[ 917120 ] imaplib: incorrect quoting in commands
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=917120&group_id=54
70&atid=105470>

If you agree it should be fixed, then adding to the tracker would be a good
idea.  At some point TPTB will look at it and give it a verdict.  For the
moment, the parantheses hack works.

=Tony Meyer




From http  Tue Mar  2 19:58:43 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 16:58:43 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
	<7xn06z6mwb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<75a58466.0403021644.161d6561@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xishmwxto.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

ciw42 at hotmail.com (ciw42) writes:
> Compiled optimised code will (should) always be significantly faster than
> interpreted code, but you lose all of the benefits of using a language such
> as Python in the process, so it's all rather pointless comparing languages
> in this way.

Of course you won't lose those benefits.  The result of compiling
Python to optimized native code is that the Python code will run
faster that way.  In other regards, it will be the same.  You keep the
benefits and gain more speed.


From cmg at dok.org  Mon Mar 29 16:34:16 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:34:16 -0500
Subject: distutils + bdist_rpm + sdist
References: <m2vfkulyil.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
Message-ID: <m2hdw7uylj.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

Chris Green <cmg at dok.org> writes:

>
> How can I add files into the sdist without changing how scripts is
> represented for bdist?

Answer was MANIFEST.in

include pyrexc*
graft Tools
include Pyrex/Compiler/Lexicon.pickle

and a working rpm was built out of pyrex

Thanks for the distutils presentation @ pycon :)
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever.


From hanjar at phenix.rootshell.be  Thu Mar 25 13:47:46 2004
From: hanjar at phenix.rootshell.be (hanjar)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:47:46 +0100
Subject: SSH using Paramiko
Message-ID: <20040325184746.GA12589@phenix.rootshell.be>

Hello,

I'm using paramiko 0.9 to access one of my home machines and then execute
a command. But with the script included below, the command gets executed
on the 2nd to 6th go, never on the first. And the commands aren't that
commplicated, they are usualy 'touch some-file' or 
'cp some_file to /tmp/a'. 

Am I misunderstanding the paramiko's API or ... ?

This is the script:

import sys
import socket
import traceback
import threading
import paramiko


hostname = "192.168.0.10"
username = "alex"
port = 22
password = 'asdfg6'

# now connect
try:
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((hostname, port))
except Exception, e:
    print 'Connect failed: ' + str(e)
    traceback.print_exc()
    sys.exit(1)

t = paramiko.Transport(sock)
event = threading.Event()
t.start_client(event)
print "started client"
event.wait(15)

if not t.is_active():
    print 'SSH negotiation failed.'
    sys.exit(1)
else:
    print "SSH negotiation sucessful"

print "doing authentication"
t.auth_password(username, password, event)


event.clear()
event.wait(20)

if not t.is_authenticated():
    print 'Authentication failed. :('
    t.close()
    sys.exit(1)

if not t.is_active():
    print "Channel is not active"
else:
    print "Channel is active"
    chan = t.open_session()
    print "session opened"
    print "Channel name is " + chan.get_name()
    chan.exec_command("cp /etc/ftpusers /tmp/")
    print "executing the command"
    chan.close()
    t.close()
    print "exiting"



Thanks

P.S. I'm aware that this is not one of the cleanest scripts out there. 
Or even very security conscious. All I'm looking for is to get it to work,
then I'll worry about it after.



From shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 20:26:25 2004
From: shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com (shalendra chhabra)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:26:25 +0000
Subject: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
Message-ID: <Law10-F8898L4pviw2T0000ac36@hotmail.com>

Hi,
I just had  a tryst with python.
I was wondering if python is good enough to do this kind of job -- for it 
has extensive support of string and pattern matching, ordering and list 
handling.

There are 'n' itemsets, the size of n is unknown. The program can count 
itself while scanning.  Each of the n itemset is of the form key: value

{key1: value1, key2:value2, key3, value3, key4: value4 .....}

Is it possible to order this itemset in an increasing order of key: value 
with respect to keys. For example: if
key4>key2>key3>key1
then the resulting ordering should be in such a way:

key4:value4, key2: value2,key3:value3>key1: value1

I plan to do this by storing this whole set of itemset in a vector or map.

Lets say vector v={key1:value1, key2: value2, key3: value3,key4:value4}

Now I wish to apply the sorting over this vector v, such that I have the 
entries in the increasing order with respect to keys in v again.
Can some one point to me how to achieve this with python?
A snippet.....

Thanks,

Shalen

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC from viruses. Get in the experts. 
http://www.msn.co.in/pcsafety/ Click here now!




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar 23 15:44:56 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:44:56 -0700
Subject: Windows Media Player 9 with win32com.client.Dispatch?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403231110260.20217@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <041701c41117$b3cdb760$6500a8c0@YODA>

Mickel wrote:
> Anybody tried using Windows Media Player 9 via win32com? (And more
> precisely, combining that with a Tkinter application.)

I've used it before with wxPython. Below is a class I made for that purpose.
WMP was originally the module generated by makepy.py (I renamed it to
facilitate using it w/ py2exe):

# Created by makepy.py version 0.4.0
# By python version 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]
# From type library '{22D6F304-B0F6-11D0-94AB-0080C74C7E95}'
# On Wed Jan 22 12:34:30 2003

Here's the class, I'm not sure how helpful it is since it relies on some
wxPython-specific stuff, but...

class wxWMPlayer(wxPanel):
    def __init__(self, parent, stateChangeCB):
        self.parent = parent
        self.stateChangeCB = stateChangeCB
        wxPanel.__init__(self, parent, -1,
style=wxCLIP_CHILDREN|wxNO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)
        theClass = MakeActiveXClass(WMP.MediaPlayer, eventObj = self)
        self.player = theClass(self, -1)
        self.player.AutoSize = 1
        self.player.ShowControls = 0
        self.player.DisplaySize = WMP.constants.mpFitToSize
        self.isPlaying = 0

        self.sizer = sizer = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
        sizer.Add(self.player, 1, wxEXPAND)
        self.SetSizer(sizer)
        self.SetAutoLayout(1)

    def SetFile(self, filename):
        self.parent.SetCursor(wxHOURGLASS_CURSOR)
        self.player.AutoStart = 0
        self.isPlaying = 0
        self.player.FileName = filename
        self.parent.SetCursor(wxNullCursor)

    def Play(self): self.player.Play()
    def Pause(self): self.player.Pause()
    def IsPlaying(self): return self.isPlaying

    def GetDuration(self): return self.player.Duration

    def OnPlayStateChange(self, oldState, newState):
        self.isPlaying = (newState == WMP.constants.mpPlaying)
        self.stateChangeCB(self.isPlaying)

HTH,
Dave




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 14:10:47 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:10:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is reverse reading possible? 
In-Reply-To: <20040314180105.GB7397@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20040314191047.15699.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com>

Jeff and Ivo,

Thank you very much for your solution.  Yes, I figure
out it is easy for an ascii text.

The files (nearly 4M each)I am gonna read are a
mixture of Chinese and English, where each Chinese
character has 2 bytes and each English (ASCII) has 1
byte, although the majority of the texts is Chinese.

So, if we reverse-read it without taking into
consideration the 2-byte Chinese characters, we are
gonna get the Chinese characters spelled out in the
wrong way - unreadable!

So, it might be tedious to read such a text reversely
unless you have a smarter idea.  Do you?



--- Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> on seekable, byte-oriented binary files, sure.
> 
> import errno
> 
> SEEK_SET, SEEK_CUR, SEEK_END = range(3)
> 
> class Reversed:
>     def __init__(self, f):
>         self.f = f
>         self.f.seek(-1, SEEK_END)
>         self.at_eof = 0
> 
>     def read_byte(self):
>         if self.at_eof: return ''
>         byte = self.f.read(1)
>         try:
>             self.f.seek(-2, SEEK_CUR)
>         except IOError, detail:
>             if detail.errno == errno.EINVAL:
>                 self.at_eof = 1
>             else:
>                 raise
>         return byte
> 
>     def __iter__(self): return self
> 
>     def next(self):
>         r = self.read_byte()
>         if r == '': raise StopIteration
>         return r
> 
> >>> "".join(Reversed(file("/etc/redhat-release",
> "rb")))
> '\n)worraY( 1 esaeler eroC arodeF'
> 
> Jeff


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From amiemi at tin.it  Mon Mar  1 13:46:11 2004
From: amiemi at tin.it (Emiliano)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:46:11 GMT
Subject: COM Objects (maybe OT)
Message-ID: <TxL0c.45654$gk.1911318@news3.tin.it>

Hi everibody,
does anyone know ho to simulate the pressure of "yes" Button in message 
boxes appearing in client certificate-based authentication of Internet 
Explorer ?

I have this code....

def aspetta(ie):
     "Dato un oggetto IE , aspetto finche' l'oggetto ? pronto per l'input."
     #print "\tIE Occupato"
     while ie.Busy:
     	print "\t->",
     	time.sleep(1)
     doc = ie.Document
     while doc.ReadyState != 'complete':
     	print "\t->.",
     	time.sleep(0.2)
     #print "\tIE Completato"
     return doc

ie = win32com.client.Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")

## NEED CODE HERE TO CLICK ON YES BUTTO OF CERTIFICATE BASED 
AUTHENTICATION ...

aspetta(ie)
etc etc etc....

Do you know ho to solve this problem?


Bye.
Emil.


From peufeu at free.fr  Sat Mar 27 13:46:50 2004
From: peufeu at free.fr (PF)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:46:50 +0100
Subject: PEP 318 : Def and Class in expressions
Message-ID: <opr5jagci1b723ru@news.free.fr>


	Hello,

	I'm pleased to see activity on this topic as it pains me to write 
"classmethod" two pages of code after the method definition. However I 
find the decorators to obfuscate the syntax and lessen the expressivity 
(ie. they restrain what can be done).

	All these problems come from the fact that the execution of the 
"foo=staticmethod(foo)" must be delayed after the execution of the "def" 
statement because it must act on the function after it has been defined.

	Normal program execution thus flow forces it to be placed after the 
"def", while readability would require it to be placed *before* the 'def'.

	How to reverse the execution order ? One method would be to use an 
expression, but that would get very ugly soon, and Python's indented 
syntax does not lend itself well to such twistings. To mix a few previous 
postings :

	mymethod = staticmethod( def (args):
		method code...
		)

	is just plain ugly.

	mymethod = staticmethod( def (args) ):
		method code...

	is also quite ugly.

	I don't like the decorators either.

	So the root of the problem is the fact that the source code executes from 
top to bottom. I see two solutions.
	1. Use a text editor which can fold functions, hiding the code between 
the def and the staticmethod call
	2. Reverse the flow of code.

	Ha.
	I'm gonna propose a flame bait, read on. It's about code blocks.

	Say we introduce a new keyword : 'block'. Here is the syntax :

	block (block-class,block-name):
		some code
		some code
		some code

	A block of code is thus an object, deriving from a base class (say, 
'CodeBlock'). It can have children too (other blocks of code), which can 
have names.
	If omitted, block-class defaults to CodeBlock, and block-name to None.
	(block-class,block-name) is a tuple, so the following are equivalent :

	block-class			=> (block-class,None)
	block-class,block-name	=> (block-class,block-name)
	(,block-name)		=> (CodeBlock,block-name)

	Example in the classmethod thingie :

	block InvertingCodeBlock:
		block:
			mymethod = staticmethod(mymethod):
		block:
			def mymethod(arg1, arg2):
				some code

	where InvertingCodeBlock: is a block class which executes its children in 
inverted order. This object has two children, both of class CodeBlock.

	I invented the syntax as it came, it sucks, but it's just so you get the 
idea. Feel free to propose something better. But first look at the 
following.

	Now, this has other, more interesting, things into it.
	Example :

def crapthread( params ):
	acquire_lock( global_lock )
	do something
	release_lock( global_lock )

	This example sucks because any exception happening in "do something" will 
not release the lock, and the lock must be manually released before every 
return.

	Now, CodeBlock can have children. What if CodeBlock decides the children 
could be executed in a certain order ?
	For instance, we could have children names "init", "run", "cleanup" which 
would run in this order.
	We could then write :
	
def crapthread( params ):
	block:
		block (,'init'):
			acquire_lock( global_lock )
		block (,'run'):
			do something
		block (,'cleanup'):
			release_lock( global_lock )

	I expect anyone will understand how this works. The parent block would 
execute 'init', then 'run', then 'cleanup', then pass anu return'ed value 
or exceptions.

	If the 'def' statement implies creation of a code block, we could omit 
the first 'block:'

	The classmethod example cound be rewritten as :
	block:
		block (,'init'):
			mymethod = staticmethod(mymethod):
		block (,'run'):
			def mymethod(arg1, arg2):
				some code

	We could define other types of children too, like a version of cleanup 
which is executed oly when no exceptions occur in "run".

	Now let's add the __currentblock__ which gives us a reference to the 
block we're in, and give the block object a way to add children of a 
certain type. We could thus register cleanup actions to be executed at the 
end of a function when needed.

	try-except-finally could also be done with blocks.

	All this is very preliminary thinking. I hope it fuels your inspiration. 
I feel this could be powerful, and also pythonic. What do you think ?

	Thanks for your time,

	Pierre


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Mar 11 05:49:14 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:49:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
In-Reply-To: <c2ntln$i2e$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20040311104914.72271.qmail@web8305.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Salvatore <salvatore at nolog.org> wrote: >
Premshree Pillai wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I recently wrote a Perl version of pyAlbum.py [1]
> -- a
> > Python script to create an image album from a
> given
> > directory -- plAlbum.pl [2].
> > 
> > It made me realize how easy-to-use Python is.
> > 
> > [1]
> >
>
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246
> > [2]
> >
>
http://www.premshree.resource-locator.com/cgi-bin/source.pl?file=../perl/plAlbum.pl
> > 
> > -Premshree Pillai
> > 
> > =====
> > -Premshree
> > [http://www.qiksearch.com/]
> > 
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the
> best policies, services, tools and more. 
> > Go to:
> http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
> > 
> That will help me in my debates thnak you ;-)
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Hmm...I have been evangelizing Python for some time
now. I began by giving seminars at my college.

I often tell people how simple Python is; this program
*did* make me realize that :-)

Glad you found it useful...

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From mark at borgerding.net  Wed Mar 31 21:54:08 2004
From: mark at borgerding.net (Mark Borgerding)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:54:08 GMT
Subject: doing my pipe between 2 process
In-Reply-To: <762279de.0403290751.33c68eff@posting.google.com>
References: <762279de.0403290751.33c68eff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kvLac.101552$8G2.66488@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

elrik wrote:
> I want catch stdout and stderr of an child process and read them with
> the parent process.
> It's like popen4 but wihout shell commande.
> 
> something like that :
> 
> r, w = os.pipe()
> input= os.fdopen(w)
> pid=os.fork()
> if pid: #parent
> 	while 1:
> 		input.read()
> else:
> 	os.dup2(w, sys.stdout.fileno())
> 	print 'exemple'
> 	sys.stdout.flush()
> 
> but il doesn't work!
> How can i make a write AND read file descriptor ?
> Thanks

input.read() will read the *entire* file.

It will not return until the child process closes its stdout, either 
explicitly or by exiting.


You can use input.readline().  Your parent will still block on the 
child's output.  If that's not okay, look at "select" and/or 
non-blocking IO (fcntl and os.O_NONBLOCK flag).



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 10 04:53:55 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:53:55 -0800
Subject: static_cast
References: <c2mngq$2s12$1@news.riken.go.jp>
Message-ID: <404EE5B3.AF0AFC13@alcyone.com>

Marc Schellens wrote:

> Can somebody tell me when exactly a static_cast is invalid,
> and when not?

It's valid when a well-defined conversion exists, but not when a
reinterpret_cast or const_cast would be required.

But then, this is comp.lang.python :-).

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Procrastination is the thief of time.
    -- Edward Young


From kylotan at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  7 20:51:41 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 17:51:41 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<roy-5F604D.12502107032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0403071751.157bb860@posting.google.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:<roy-5F604D.12502107032004 at reader2.panix.com>...

> you might even be able to get away with no FooStub class at all, but 
> simply instantiating your Bar test object with a constant:
> 
> def setUp (self):
>    self.bar = Bar ("foo")
> 
> This is where the dynamic nature of Python really shines.  Something 
> like C++ or Java would make you jump through a lot more hoops to make 
> sure you instantiated your Bar with a valid Foo.

Yeah, this is true. One of the favourite parts of my system is how I
have a chain of delegation that passes down a 'graphic' object, and
nothing except the two classes at the end of the chain need to know
what type it is.

However, as I think I mentioned in a previous reply on this thread,
all my methods are there because they're the minimum that I require
for valid functionality. Stubbing any of them out would make testing
pointless.

Personally, I don't consider my design to have 'high coupling'.
However, each coupling is essential. For example, much of my design
involves delegation; Class A calls an accessor in Class B which gets
the information from a contained Class C behind the scenes. This
design is explicitly there so that I have no dependency between A and
C. However, it also means that I can't test B fairly without C.

Maybe I just have no code that can be tested in isolation. In all
fairness I don't have much significant code written yet. But as I
thought you were supposed to code test cases as you go along, I
thought I'd start now. But in fact it's proven to be pointless.

> But the basic 
> principle is the same in any OOPL; the more tighly coupled your classes 
> are, the more difficult it is to test, maintain, and understand the 
> system.

I see one major difference here, though. In C++ I have to write lots
of low-level classes to encapsulate various elements of functionality.
These often have few or no dependencies and can be tested in
isolation. In Python I don't need to write these low level classes, as
the advanced syntax solves many of these problems for me. Generators
and list comprehensions replace the need for many function objects.
Tuples replace ad-hoc structures for returning multiple values.
Dictionaries replace many of my C++ storage structures. All the
low-coupling classes I used to write in C++ have been factored out of
the system by the Python language. All that remains is the core of my
system; a few specialised classes working in tandem.

As I see it from my -very- limited experience of this one program I'm
writing, the paradox is that Python makes unit testing so much easier
and efficient, while making it less and less important to me.

> One way or another, your classes need to interact, and the code that 
> implements those interactions needs to exist (and thus needs to be 
> tested).  The question is, where do you put that code?  Do you bury it 
> inside the classes, making it difficult to test both the underlying 
> classes and their interactions, or do you factor it out to someplace 
> where you can test each piece in isolation?

There's nowhere it can go that allows for such isolated testing. The
coupling has to be done in order for the object to make sense. The
only methods that don't involve other objects are trivial ones that
are shorter than the associated test case would be.

-- 
Ben Sizer


From pete at shinners.org  Wed Mar 10 10:38:06 2004
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:38:06 -0800
Subject: name of this python program
In-Reply-To: <404F0353.1050204@geochemsource.com>
References: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local> <404F0353.1050204@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <c2ncou$5d8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gandalf wrote:
> import sys
> print sys.argv[0]
> 
> However, it can be wrong if you run it that way ('python myprog.py'). It 
> works when you run it this way: 'myprog.py'.

I've never seen it "wrong", no matter how the script is run. Perhaps I 
haven't payed close enough attention. At worst you'll get some extra path 
information to the python script. One of the replies already mentioned using 
os.path to get the name of the actual script from any path.




From silvanadimartino at tin.it  Sun Mar 21 05:56:07 2004
From: silvanadimartino at tin.it (Silvana Di Martino)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:56:07 +0000
Subject: J2EE/EJB and Python
Message-ID: <200403211056.07740.silvanadimartino@tin.it>

My group recently received its first request for the the development of a 
really large and complex enterprise-level application, the kind of app that 
would require the use of tools like Enterprise Java Beans and J2EE (it is 
something very similar to the "Titan Cruise" example supplied by Richard 
Monson Haefel in his fine book "Enetrprise JavaBeans", for the people who 
read it).

Of course, being all Pythonists, we wonder if there was any 
project/architecture/technology like EJB and J2EE in/for Python.

We are aware of JBoss (http://www.jboss.org , 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jboss) and of JOnAS 
(http://jonas.objectweb.org/) so we are not concerned about the availability 
of standard-compliant, high-quality, J2EE open-source implementations. Also, 
we are aware of the fact that we can use Python and JPython together with 
J2EE and EJB. We just wonder if the development of anything like J2EE and EJB 
has ever been attempted by the Python community. 

Looking around, I found a few Application Servers (like "Crusader": 
http://www.movatis.com/crusader), Transaction Servers and Distributed Object 
Technology systems (like "PyRO": http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyro) that 
vaguely resemble to parts of J2EE so I think it is not impossible that a 
Python-based J2EE competitor/equivalent has ever been planned.

Does anybody know of anything like that? Any web link?

(We will greatly appreciate any URL of Python tools or technologies that can 
be used for the development of complex, multi-tier, business applications, as 
well.)

Many thanks for you attention.

-----------------------------------------
Alessandro Bottoni
alessandrobottoni at interfree.it



From cmg at dok.org  Tue Mar 30 09:08:26 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:08:26 -0500
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
	<mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list@python.org>
	<106b6ivetpf0bc0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m2hdw64ecl.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>  However, one benefit of sendmail and comparable MTAs that's often
> not immedi- ately apparent (and, with any luck, won't be for the
> life of any specific project) is their knowledge about retries.

A good argument against MTAs when doing an application for deployment
with less than knowledgable sysadmins that pick a default linux box
and do an install just to get your system up on running on their
intranet.

When their email doesn't work for one of a myriad of reasons (FQDN,
relay configuration, odd internal MX records) you're left supporting
them or telling them to find support for some piece of software more
complex than what you probably gave them.

I got reminded of this yet again when I tried to do a VERY quick
install of bugzilla a few months ago.

Getting them to enter an IP and then on the phone telling them to do
telnet host 25 is a much easier thing to debug.
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
A good pun is its own reword.


From salvatore at nolog.org  Fri Mar 12 16:16:13 2004
From: salvatore at nolog.org (Salvatore)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:16:13 +0100
Subject: Create static method dynamically
In-Reply-To: <Vf94c.120$pa6.95629@monger.newsread.com>
References: <c2qnop$ung$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>
	<Vf94c.120$pa6.95629@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <c2t99q$e26$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Leif K-Brooks wrote:
  >
> Change line 3 to:
>         myClass.__dict__[name] = staticmethod(method)

That make me feel not very proud ;-)
Thans Leif



From eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com  Thu Mar  4 08:41:27 2004
From: eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:41:27 +0100
Subject: Problem displaying images with TkInter
References: <c279qp$csq$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c27b77$vb7$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

David wrote:
> Hi,
>         I'm new to python so I'm probably making a fairly simple mistake, but
> look at the example below. It simply displays a rectangle and an image.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> root = Tk()
> 
> c = Canvas(root, width=1024, height = 1024)
> c.pack()
> 
> c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
> mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
> c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=mudPhoto)
> 
> root.mainloop()
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> Now I try to modify it so that the image and rectangle only appear when I
> click the mouse on the canvas. I use the following code:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> root = Tk()
> 
> def OnClick(event):
>     print "click!!!"
>     c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
>     mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
>     c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=mudPhoto)
> 
> c = Canvas(root, width=1024, height = 1024)
> c.pack()
> c.bind("<Button-1>",OnClick)
> root.mainloop()
> ----------------------------------------------
> 
> However when I click the mouse it prints 'click!!!' and draws the rectangle
> as expected. However it doesn't draw the image! Does anyone have any idea
> why this would be?

This used to be a FAQ, but I can't it anymore (anyone knows where it has gone?).

The problem lies in the fact that for some reason, the Canvas where you do the 
create_image does *not* keep a reference on the actual PhotoImage object. So 
this object disappears when your variable mudPhoto goes out of scope (i.e. at 
the end of your OnClick function), which causes its deletion at tk level. So 
when OnClick finishes, the canvas finds itself displaying an image that doesn't 
exist anymore.

The workaround is simple: always keep an explicit reference on all your 
PhotoImage and BitmapImage objects until you no more need them. For your 
particular case, this can be done via:

def OnClick(event):
     print "click!!!"
     c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
     c.mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
     c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=c.mudPhoto)

Turning mudPhoto into an attribute of the canvas ensures that it won't be 
deleted before the canvas is.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Thu Mar 18 22:58:54 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:58:54 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>
	<405A5EC9.6010503@yahoo.com.au>
Message-ID: <2eu6c.25407$P45.19517@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Steve wrote:
> 
> 
> Asun Friere wrote:
> 
>> In fact __eq__ can be redefined even /so as to be an equivalence
>> relation/ such that x==y => True and x is y => False.  The
>> 'fundamental properties' posisted, are simply not fundamental.
> 
> I think you have mis-read those fundamental properties. 
> They were:
> 
> (1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" 
> yields True.
> 
> (2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True. 
> Equivalently, if "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also 
> yields False.
> 
> Property (2) assumes that __eq__ implements an 
> equivalence relation.
> 
> Notice that your objection that x==y returns True and x 
> is y returns False is *not* one of those properties. In 
> fact, that is the normal behaviour:
> 
> >>> a = [1, 2]
> >>> b = [1] + [2]
> >>> (a == b, a is b)
> (1, 0)
> 
> I don't think the argument that one can redefine __eq__ 
> to be something other than an equivalence relation is a 
> particularly strong argument. I would call that a bug, 
> even if it is a deliberate bug. If "==" doesn't do 
> equality, then it is an exceedingly bad piece of design.


You know, it's not hard to imagine some abstract mathematical superset
of the normal orthogonal math we use everyday, wherein certain numbers
(or sets or whatever) are not equal to themselves.  In which case it
would be entirely appropriate for __eq__ to return False if called
with the same object.  Of course, that's not really the typical case.

(It's also not hard to imagine that, if such a branch of mathematics
exists, someone here will know about it.)


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From lfini at arcetri.astro.it  Tue Mar 30 09:40:36 2004
From: lfini at arcetri.astro.it (Luca Fini)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:40:36 +0200
Subject: Socket Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.62.1080574302.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.62.1080574302.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403301639330.28129@lfini>


Python 2.3 has support for timeout on sockets.

                           l.f.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Lindstrom Greg - glinds wrote:

> Hello-
>
> I have a python routine (Python 2.2.3 on Windows 2000 "Professional") using
> a socket connection.  Problem is, the backend service I'm connecting to will
> hang every so often and the socket will simply wait for a response which
> will never come.  I'm thinking of putting in a routine to check the socket's
> status, which now brings in threading.  Before I go to the trouble I thought
> I'd ask if there is a simple way to verify my socket is still communicating.
> It's running about 200 transactions per second...if I put in the threaded
> timer I'd have it take a look every few seconds to see if the
> "TotalRecordsProcessed" counter has been incremented.
>
> Your constructive thoughts are requested.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
       -- )     Luca Fini                            Tel: +39 055 2752 307
 ___    |\      INAF - Oss. Astrofisico di Arcetri   Fax: +39 055 2752 292
/   |   | |-_   L.go E.Fermi, 5 +-----------------------------------------
(___|___//___)  50125 Firenze  /   WWW: http://www.arcetri.astro.it/~lfini
 (_)      (_)   Italia        / e-mail: lfini at arcetri.astro.it
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 13 10:10:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:10:06 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <wxF4c.2791$G3.23544@localhost>

Bart Nessux wrote:

> Why am I doing this? Because users turn off ssh and change the root 
> password. Mac OSX allows "administrative" users to do this. This script 
> undoes their changes.

Another question no one has asked: if you're trying to get central 
control in a situation like this, why the heck do the users even know 
the root password for their machines in the first place?  Can't you 
reserve that for administrative use by the IT types, and give users safe 
userids which _cannot_ do what you are saying they do to screw up the 
systems?

-Peter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar  5 04:15:55 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 10:15:55 +0100
Subject: Some language proposals.
References: <slrnc3mss6.pob.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<tyfwu6bmfhx.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1iuj5$7q3$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<tyfoermmgp7.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1l1au$nn4$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<tyfvfltaqkb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1rn19$p6r$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<tyfad31asre.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c29aa6$5tj$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <tyf1xo78xis.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

> [snip classes not behaving like class instances]
> 
> I see.  You are not happy with the fact that instances of some other
> class, with a __call__ method are not considered a bound instance
> method.  I'm sure you have thought of it, but I would wrap it.

Or, I could just use a closure as I advocated in the first place. It
would be shorter, clearer, less error-prone and (much) more efficient.

> take another function call, but really, what other functionality do
> you need that the below does not provide?
> 
> 
> Give the below a shot.
> 
>   - Josiah
> 
> class callee:
>      def __call__(s, self, *args):
>          print self
> 
> def instance(self, *args):
>      print self
> 
> def wrapper(self, *args):
>      print self
>      self._c(self, *args)
> 
> class caller:
>      pass
> 
> caller.instance_method = instance
> caller.instance_method2 = wrapper
> foo = caller()
> caller._c = callee()

Which is just a very long-winded and run-time inefficient way of
achieving the following

class caller: pass

def method2(self, *args):
    print self

caller.method2 = method2


Please remember that this all started because of a suggestion that
instances with __call__ are better alternatives to closures in just
about any situation in Python. (Please remember that _I_ disagree with
this.)

In other words, yes, I _could_ do this, but why would I want to, given
that much better alternatives exist ... even ones which do not use
closures (see Michael Hudson's suggestions upthread on how to do this
in Python 2.3 using types.UnboungMethodType and new.instancemethod,
for example).


From mwallis at swri.org  Mon Mar 22 16:50:44 2004
From: mwallis at swri.org (Melissa Wallis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:50:44 -0600
Subject: os.execlp and stdout
Message-ID: <105untml7a9ob12@corp.supernews.com>

In a Python script I start a number of C++ processes using os.execlp. Most
of these processes output messages for debugging purposes at this time.  The
problem I am having is that by starting 4 or 5 processes from my Python
script I don't get the cout messages they write.  I have tried redirecting
stdout to a file but I get everything but the output from the C++ processes.
Any suggestions.

Thanks
Melissa




From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 29 03:27:06 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:27:06 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4067ddda$0$3643$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> On 26 Mar 2004 20:49:00 -0800, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele
> Simionato) wrote:
> 
> 
>>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
>>
>>>What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
>>>use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
>>>some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
>>>to be just templates to produce other objects.
>>
>>Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
>>"Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)
> 
> 
> I almost had the same reaction when I first read this, but I did
> continue reading, and I'm glad.

Also if Python can drop tabs in version 3 then Prothon can correct this 
mistake very quickly and not affect a lot of existing code. Better still 
why don't we head over to Prothon and fix the tab right now.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Mar 10 08:52:35 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:35 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<9qh2i1-2up.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <roy-7627F5.08523510032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <9qh2i1-2up.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>,
 "Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> > I find it interesting that many
> > people who come from a C++ background (especially those who migrated
> > from C) tend to dislike exceptions.  It must have been something in the
> > water when they were growing up :-)
> 
> It also affects former Java weenies.  As a Java programmer you expect
> your code to be run under a JIT (and not interpretted) and you are
> aware that exceptions are significantly more expensive than straight
> forward code.  This is less of an issue in Python as interpretters
> don't tend to have as expensive exceptions compared to "normal" code.

But, exceptions are things that (generally) don't happen very often.  
What difference does it make if something that doesn't happen very often 
is slow?

What really tends to surprise C++ types is that in Python, using 
exceptions is often FASTER than the alternative.  For example, if most 
accesses of a dictionary are for keys that are already there, it's 
faster to just try it and catch the occasional KeyError than to check 
before you try the access.

I wrote a little test program which reads a dictionary, generates the 
leading digram of each word (i.e. the first two letters) then builds a 
histogram of digram frequency.  I build the histogram 10 times to dilute 
out the time it takes to read the file in the first place.

Each of the 10 runs results in about 2 million dictionary accesses, of 
which about 500 generate KeyErrors.  I ran it using two algorithms; one 
catches the KeyErrors and deals with problem, the other uses has_key() 
to check first to avoid raising the exceptions in the first place.  
Here's the results (see full code listing below):

Roy-Smiths-Computer:play$ time ./digram.py -h > has
real    0m7.633s
user    0m6.830s
sys     0m0.100s

Roy-Smiths-Computer:play$ time ./digram.py -e > ex
real    0m5.642s
user    0m4.970s
sys     0m0.120s

The output files (has and ex) compare identical.  The has_key() version 
took 6.8 seconds, the exception catching version took 5.0.

I think what's really interesting about this is that even in C++, where 
exceptions are relatively costly, with a hit ratio of 500:2,000,000 
(0.025%), I bet the exception catching version would still be faster.


---------digram.py----------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys

def main ():
        digrams = []
        words = open ("/usr/share/dict/words")
        for word in words:
                digram = word.rstrip().lower()[0:2]
                digrams.append (digram)

        count = 10
        if sys.argv[1] == "-e":
                d = countEx (digrams, count)
        else:
                d = countHas (digrams, count)

        digrams = d.keys ()
        digrams.sort ()
        for digram in digrams:
                print "%s: %d" % (digram, d [digram])

def countEx (digrams, count):
        d = {}
        for i in range (count):
                for digram in digrams:
                        try:
                                d[digram] += 1
                        except KeyError:
                                d[digram] = 1
        return d

def countHas (digrams, count):
        d = {}
        for i in range (count):
                for digram in digrams:
                        if d.has_key (digram):
                                d[digram] += 1
                        else:
                                d[digram] = 1
        return d

if __name__ == "__main__":
        main ()
-----------------------------------


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  1 06:34:36 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 06:34:36 -0500
Subject: Type emulation issues with new style classes
References: <C0%%b.4538$qX5.249@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
	<m3hdxb6rwg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<6O40c.5969$qX5.1972@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
	<95aa1afa.0402290216.18ee8000@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c1v74c$lm1$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <95aa1afa.0402290216.18ee8000 at posting.google.com>,
Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>
>You may also look at this bug report:
>
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=789262
>
>The special lookup of special attributes has bitten at least three or four
>person on this mailing list in the last year or so: I maintain that
>it is a documentation bug.

Just as a reminder, here's a nifty way of reporting SF URLs that makes
life easier:
http://www.python.org/sf/789262
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From wweston at att.net  Tue Mar 23 23:27:09 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:27:09 GMT
Subject: creating lists question?
In-Reply-To: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <x688c.12446$tY6.358940@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

spisatus wrote:
> I'm trying to create a series of list from a loop is this possible? Let me
> give you an example:
> 
> list1 = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]
> 
> for element in list1:
>   a = element         #a is one of the strings
>   a = []              #a is now an empty list; list1 is unchanged
> 
> 
> I want a new list created for every element in list1, how can I do this.
> 
> Thanks!!
> Spisatus
> 
> 
> 

    Let me just put comments on the for loop.
    There has to be a better way/better result than having a
bunch of named lists. Maybe you want a list of a label-list;
for example.

list = []
list.append( ["aaa",[]] )

list[0][1].append("a")

print list
[['aaa', ['a']]]

wes



From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 26 15:53:40 2004
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 12:53:40 -0800
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
References: <mailman.419.1080242529.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7652139e.0403251807.619375da@posting.google.com>
	<rQM8c.42842$B%1.19244@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0403261253.3b85661c@posting.google.com>

asdf sdf <asdf at asdf.com> wrote in message news:<rQM8c.42842$B%1.19244 at newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>...

<snip>

> sounds like you're supporting the idea that python is a better 
> _language_ than pascal (delphi), but that delphi has a more effective 
> toolset/framework for gui work.

Yes.

> is .net the better framework for gui work also, or is that choice 
> imposed on you by customer requirements?

The Visual Studio IDE is very similar to Delphi's; they are both
excellent. The customer (rightly or wrongly) likes the idea of an
integrated MS solution.


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar 11 19:28:21 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:28:21 -0600
Subject: 2D List comprehension & replace
References: <YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA@comcast.com>

I should not have given up so soon.

[[y or None for y in x] for x in l]

seems to do the trick.

-Larry Bates


"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
news:YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA at comcast.com...
> I've gone brain-dead trying to get this to work
> using list comprehensions.  I have a list of lists
> like the following:
>
> l=[[92.6, 0, 93.5],
>    [94.7, 95.6, 95.7],
>    [91.2, 92.1, 93.0]]
>
> what I want is a new list
> with the zero (0) replaced with None.
>
> I thought I would use the fact that the command:
>
> 0 or None
>
> seems to return None.
>
> This procedural code does the trick, but I just
> know it can be done with a single list comprehension.
>
> tol=[]
> for a in l:
>     til=[]
>     for v in a:
>         if a != 0: til.append(v)
>         else:      til.append(None)
>
>     tol.append(til)
>
> l=tol
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Larry Bates
>
>




From slackgg at 163.com  Tue Mar  2 00:33:45 2004
From: slackgg at 163.com (slackgg at 163.com)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 21:33:45 -0800
Subject: How to access the Oracle9i?
Message-ID: <a48d7271.0403012133.77abd1b8@posting.google.com>

HI:
  above title..


From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Tue Mar  2 18:07:39 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:07:39 +0100
Subject: locale.getlocale() strange behaviour
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.02.23.07.35.88163@ifrance.com>

here are my locales


benoit at athlon >> locale
LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_CTYPE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_NUMERIC="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_TIME="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_COLLATE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_MONETARY="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_MESSAGES="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_PAPER="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_NAME="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_ADDRESS="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_TELEPHONE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_MEASUREMENT="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="fr_FR.UTF-8"
LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8



(full utf-8 system)



>> python2.3 -c 'import locale; print locale.getlocale()'
(None, None)

>> python2.2 -c 'import locale; print locale.getlocale()'
(None, None)

>> python2.3
Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 24 2004, 09:29:20)
[GCC 3.3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import locale
>>> locale.getlocale()
(None, None)


>> python2.2
Python 2.2.3+ (#1, Feb 25 2004, 23:29:31)
[GCC 3.3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import locale
>>> locale.getlocale()
['fr_FR', 'utf']


2.3 fails getting locale
but 2.2 also fails when running inline :/

makes me crazy :D







From google at evpopov.com  Tue Mar 16 12:14:58 2004
From: google at evpopov.com (popov)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 09:14:58 -0800
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <7eecf173.0403160914.52d4b86a@posting.google.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote in message news:<nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500 at news4.e.nsc.no>...
> I need a piece of code to extract as much info about OS, current status and
> hardware from a machine as possible ( at least, all available partitions and
> free space on these, CPU-speed, free/total memory and stuff like that ) at
> one given moment on Linux and Windows.
> 
> Any hints? Can I call something in win32all on Windows or read some file on
> linux? I'm not sure where to begin.
> 
> Thomas

Under windows, you can use winmsd (==msinfo32) (works with NT4 / W2K /
XP / W2003 - don't know for other Windows versions). You can select
the amount of info you want by providing arguments to winmsd. Have a
look to msdn:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;255713


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Wed Mar 17 06:25:48 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:48 +0100
Subject: Statistical Techniques
References: <mailman.58.1079476340.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94AF802719814cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

> I was just wondering if python has any support modules
> for statistical techniques as Bayesian, Markovian

http://salstat.sourceforge.net/
http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/staff/loredo/bayes/python02.pdf
http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray

hth
Harald


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Mar 19 23:49:55 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:49:55 -0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
	<donn-60551B.16462317032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<tyf65d18c2c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<donn-624AB5.10440419032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<yoijvfl0e1ml.fsf@frealaf.dd.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <1079758194.142559@yasure>

Quoth bojohan+news at dd.chalmers.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?Johan_Bockg=E5rd?=):
...
| Haskell has no implicit conversions. What you see is an effect of
| having overloaded numeric constants.

I knew I was in trouble when I saw your chalmers.se email address.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From secun at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 15:01:58 2004
From: secun at yahoo.com (ChrisH)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:01:58 GMT
Subject: wxDirDialog
References: <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ac12687e9a40c45989680@news2.atlantic.net>

I've sent a list of machines on a Windows network to a wxListBox.

If you like, I can dig up the code.



In article <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07 at posting.google.com>, 
ekoome at yahoo.com says...
> How does one use wxDirDialog to select and get a computer name from the network?
> 
> Or which widget should i use to accomplish this?
> 
> Eric
> 


From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 06:17:38 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:17:38 +0900
Subject: embed python
Message-ID: <c2pi2o$17dm$2@news.riken.go.jp>

Can somebody tell me how to handle
this #include issue when embedding python?
Why NOT (according to  the python doc) ude
#include <python2.3/Python.h>
?

And which is the library to link if I want to
use pyhton from my application?

Is there a standard way to deal with that issue?

thanks,
marc



From abakhshi at legato.com  Mon Mar 15 16:53:06 2004
From: abakhshi at legato.com (Ajay Bakhshi)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:53:06 -0800
Subject: AIX -illegal instruction - importing extension module
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B091E7F11@pa-mail1.legato.com>

Hi,

I am getting the following problem on AIX.
I create a small shared library. And tried to load it in python.

It core dumps with the following message:
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

At other time with another shared lib I got:
Illegal instruction: core dump

* The program works fine on hp-ux 11.11 and solaris 7.

NOTE:
* python - version: 2.2.3 is compiled with cc_r (Visual age 6.0 compiler)
	it is #####  64 bit  ######
* AIX	5
* I compiled the shared lib with xlC, cc_r and g++ to see if the compiler
was an issue
* Also note that: when I copy the pwd.so from lib-dynload/pwd.so and moved
lib-dynload/pwd.so to lib-dynload/pwd.so.org and then imported pwd.so it
when through fine.
* When I wrote a C main() program to load the shared library and load the
symbol using dlopen and dlsym it worked fine.


The python program is:
=========================================
import os, sys
print "before import libspam"
import libspam				====> It dumps here
print "after import libspam"
print OK.
=========================================

The shared lib code is also very simple

=================================================================
PyObject *
spam_system(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    char *command;
    int sts;

    printf("\n In spam_system \n");
    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &command))
    {
	printf("\n  spam_system: FAILURE");
        return NULL;
    }
    sts = system(command);
    printf("\n  spam_system: SUCCESS");

    return Py_BuildValue("i", sts);
}

static PyMethodDef mmdb_methods[] =
{
	{	"spam",	spam_system,    METH_VARARGS,
		"mmdb.control( allow_fail, allow_fall_back ) -- Control the
kind of client that is created"
	},
	{	0, 0, 0, 0	}
};

PyObject * initlibspam(void)
{
    PyObject *module = Py_InitModule3("libspam", mmdb_methods, "Test Spam");

    return module;
}
=================================================================


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From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 31 05:03:34 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:03:34 +0200
Subject: Python compiler -> py to C, py to ELF
In-Reply-To: <c4dvrh$kgh$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
References: <mailman.160.1080716941.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4dvrh$kgh$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <c4e4ut$4fn$1@swifty.westend.com>

Yermat wrote:
> If you just want an exe file, also see py2exe 
> (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)
> 
> If what you want is something faster than python but not an ELF file 
> then also look at pyrex.

If the goal is fast code dont' forget psyco. It is an extremely
simple to use JIT compiler and can speed up Python scripts
dramatically (scripts that aren't just waiting for system I/O
calls to return). Example: Ackermann's function of the Great Language
Shootout: factor 70.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From cmg at dok.org  Wed Mar 24 16:34:58 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:34:58 -0500
Subject: distutils + bdist_rpm + sdist
Message-ID: <m2vfkulyil.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

Hey folks,

One common problem that I run into with python modules is bdist_rpm
fails because file XYZ is missing.  This seems to be because bdist_rpm
is build from the sdist [1].

I'm playing with the Pyrex module and bdist_rpm fails because of files
in the scripts=[list] directive not being included in the sdist.

How can I add files into the sdist without changing how scripts is
represented for bdist?

# Pyrex's setup.py

from distutils.core import setup
from distutils.sysconfig import get_python_lib
import os.path
 
dfile_dir = os.path.join(get_python_lib(prefix=''), 'Pyrex/Compiler')
 
setup(
  name='PyrexWithDistutilsSupport',
  scripts=['pyrexc',],
  packages=[
    'Pyrex',
    'Pyrex.Compiler',
    'Pyrex.Distutils',
    'Pyrex.Mac',
    'Plex'
    ],
  data_files=[
    (dfile_dir, ['Pyrex/Compiler/Lexicon.pickle'])
    ]
  )


Footnotes: 
[1]  http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/sdist-cmd.html

-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
You now have 14 minutes to reach minimum safe distance.


From fonso at aturuxo.net  Mon Mar  1 11:26:55 2004
From: fonso at aturuxo.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Afonso_Fern=E1ndez_Nogueira?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:26:55 +0100
Subject: Image width, height.
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<cpafzcs366g.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <006f01c3ffaa$037f3f60$0201a8c0@colesterol>


> Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> writes:
> > Is there a Py module available using which I can find
> > the width and height of any image format?
> 
> I'm not aware of one short of loading the whole image or shelling out
> to another tool.
> 
> There's a nifty Perl module though:
>   http://www.blackperl.com/Image::Size/
> The nice thing about it is it doesn't have to load the whole image in
> most cases. The actual size determining code is about 500 lines of
> fairly simple Perl to handle about 10 image formats. It might not be
> too bad to port it. It's under the Perl Artistic License.

The PIL does this, too.
http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/


cheers,
Fonso






From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 13 02:17:56 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:17:56 -0800
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
In-Reply-To: <Xns94AB41289E78AJanC@213.119.4.35>
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyfu10w68xo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94AB41289E78AJanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <c2ucol$c82$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> def foo(a, b) for (type1, type2):
>     print "type 1 & 2"
> 
> def foo(a, b) for (type3, type4):
>     print "type 3 & 4"

While I don't like the syntax you give, I do agree that it can be 
useful.  I've gotten used to doing the below, but letting the system 
take care of polymorphism would be convenient.

def foo(a, b):
     if type(a) is type1 and type(b) is type2:
         print "type 1 & 2"
     elif type(a) is type3 and type(b) is type4:
         print "type 3 & 4"
     else:
         raise TypeError("Improper argument types passed: %s %s"\
                         %(type(a),type(b)))

Certainly the above can be streamlined with a wrapper function:

def foo1_2(a,b):
     print "type 1 & 2"

def foo3_4(a,b):
     print "type 3 & 4"

def foo(a,b):
     dct = {(type1, type2):foo1_2,
            (type3, type4):foo3_4}
     return dct[type(a), type(b)](a,b)

Which shows us that manual polymorphism is not that bad.

  - Josiah


From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Thu Mar  4 16:04:25 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 21:04:25 GMT
Subject: Running insecure python code
References: <hQq%b.41604$BD3.8026233@juliett.dax.net>
	<mailman.189.1077849062.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<2004022623031275249%bob@redivicom>
	<sOO%b.41951$BD3.8059632@juliett.dax.net>
	<2004022718575516807%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <slrnc4f6ep.2elv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com>
wrote on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:57:55 -0500:
> You can try looking into PyPy or something.  In practice, an 
> interpreter written in Python is probably going to be far too slow to 
> be used for any sort of modern game.

  You could translate your more limited scripting language into Python,
and then eval it.  This should be reasonably fast, and if you're careful
not to pass unescaped strings from the player through to Python, it
should be secure.

  For maximum fun, the limited scripting language should be a subset of
Python.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." -Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly


From terry_foo at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 30 02:19:19 2004
From: terry_foo at hotmail.com (TerryFOO)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:19:19 +0800
Subject: Learnt from Python
Message-ID: <40691f13_1@news.tm.net.my>

Python is a very easy to learn for non-programmers compared with other
languages such as C, C++, Java, and Visual Basic.

During the try out, I've learnt on how to edit programs in text editor or
IDLE, save them to disk and run them once they have been saved.

Also I've learnt the string and regular expression processing, XML support
in Python.





From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 31 13:41:01 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:41:01 +0200
Subject: doctest
References: <1xnace2w.fsf@python.net>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEGAJOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <isgkg8qq.fsf@python.net>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Thomas Heller]
>> This simple script reads the ctypes docs written in StructuredText,
>> and runs and tests the code examples in it:
>>
>> """
>> import doctest
>>
>> ex = doctest._extract_examples(file("tutorial.stx").read())
>> doctest._run_examples(ex, {}, 0, "tutorial.stx", 0, 0)
>> """

>> Do I understand correctly that the doctest-pretty printer will
>> eventually remove the remaining 'warts', ie that doctest complains
>> about the address part in this?
>>
>> >>> class X(object): pass
>> ...
>> >>> x = X()
>> >>> x
>> >>> <__main__.X object at 0x008FA3F0>
>
> Probably, but it's a tradeoff:  doctest strove to be 100% WYSIWYG, and the
> "doc" part of "doctest" does suffer when that fails.  In this case, I think
> your example makes for poor documentation:  what are you really trying to
> communicate?

The ctypes tutorial contains (among others) code examples like this:

      >>> from ctypes import *
      >>> windll.kernel32
      <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle 77e80000 at 7ecfe8>
      >>> cdll.msvcrt
      <CDLL 'msvcrt', handle 78000000 at 80b010>

This may not be the best documentation, but it shows what the programmer
sees when he experiments with ctypes at the command prompt.  Neither the
repr string nor the type of the result is particularly interesting...

>  If it's that X() creates an X object, then
>
>>>> class X(object): pass
>>>> x = X()
>>>> type(x) is X
> True
>
> is a much cleaner statement.

I used the script above to make sure that the code examples in the
ctypes tutorial are correct (they weren't).  And it seems doctest is a
fantastic way to show that.

Of course it's easy to skim the output manually and see that the
following failure is a minor detail:
"""
*****************************************************************
Failure in example: print windll.kernel32
from line #30 of tutorial.stx
Expected: <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle 77e80000 at 7ecfe8>
Got: <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle 77e40000 at 995d00>
"""

OTOH, it would make more efficient testing if no error would be reported
;-)  How will the doctest pretty printer handle things like these?
Will it skip sections like these ' at xxx>', where xxx is a hex number?

Thomas




From patois at calvix.org  Fri Mar 19 17:23:06 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:23:06 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
Message-ID: <c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Stephen Robert Norris wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:12:03 +0100, Yannick Patois wrote:
> The only potential bug here is that perhaps python should have raised an
> error when the import happened.

The doc explicitly says:
"his function does not handle hierarchical module names (names 
containing dots)."

So you may say that it's up to the programmer to comply with the doc, 
and shouldnt expect things to work well if not.

But, I dont want to handle a hierarchical module: just a non 
hierarchical one that appends to have a dot in it's name, and it's not 
so explicit that this would break.

The fact that it "almost" work is even more strange, and error prone.

But I dont know, I wont say that this has to be fixed in any way outside 
of the programmer's code.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 02:46:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:46:20 +0100
Subject: Iterating over tuple entries in a list
References: <mailman.244.1078953032.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2p5gc$cuo$06$2@news.t-online.com>

Dirk Zimmermann wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have the following problem:
> 
> I have a list with tuples in it, looking like this:
> 
> myList = [(1.1, "file1"), (1.2,"file2), (1.9, "file3")]
> 
> (I want to store a number calculated from a file together with the
> file.) Than I want to use functions expecting a list of floats. Is there
> an easy way to slice myList? I know, that:
> 
> myList[2][0]
> 
> gives:
> 1.9
> 
> But:
> 
> myList[0:2][0]
> 
> does _not_ give something like:
> 
> [1.1, 1.2, 1.9]
> 
> By now I loop over the list, select the numbers and store them in a new
> list. But I don't like that way very much. Is there a "better" way?

If you are really lazy:

>>> myList = [(1.1, "file1"), (1.2, "file2"), (1.9, "file3")]
>>> zip(*myList)[0]
(1.1000000000000001, 1.2, 1.8999999999999999)
>>>

Peter



From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar  6 22:35:31 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:35:31 +0100
Subject: Need better string methods
In-Reply-To: <c2dkjg$1sekvm$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.77.1078607276.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2dkjg$1sekvm$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <404A9883.3010407@stackless.com>

William Park wrote:

> Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
> 
>>William Park wrote:
>>
>>>Both Bash shell and Python can split based on regular expression.
>>>However, shell is not a bad alternative here:
>>>    tr -s ' \t' ' ' | sed -e 's/ ?| ?/|/g' -e 's/^ //' -e 's/ $//' |
>>>    while IFS='|' read -a clean; do
>>>      ...
>>>    done
>>
>>But isn't that regex expression much harder to understand
>>for part-time programmers than the few Python methods?
> 
> 
> But, OP's audience is not part-time programmers.  My guess is that they
> immediately abandon shell and jump to proprietary languages.  OP may
> have better luck if they stick with shell a bit longer, and then jump to
> Python as last resort.  

I have no idea what OP is.

> As for regex... it's usually easier to set up the data to be cut,
> instead of cutting first and then patching up the pieces.

Why? One big, undecipherable regex is better than a stepwise
reduction of the problem? Not mentioning that the latter is
probably faster, but...
Can you enlighten me why you think you can claim that,
or is this going to become a thread like "PHP is better
than Python for web/database stuff"?

yes-I-meant-to-be-friendly -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From p.a.rubini at cranfield.ac.uk  Fri Mar 26 10:51:27 2004
From: p.a.rubini at cranfield.ac.uk (Philip Rubini)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:51:27 -0000
Subject: Nodenet availability ?
Message-ID: <40645179$1@news.cranfield.ac.uk>

Hi,

I am looking for NodeNet (see the announcement below originally posted a
year or so ago), which would appear to fit my requirements almost exactly.
f. Unfortunately the link is dead. Is anyone aware if the code announced by
Matt is available anywhere ? Matt are you there ?

Thanks

Phil.

>...................
I've released NodeNet 1.0beta2.  Changes from the previous version include:

*  Both the network editing control and the node drag window manage
   their own scrollbars if their data is too big to be entirely visible
   at once.
*  In the network editing control, you can drag out a selection box
   to easily select multiple nodes at once.
*  Rendering in the Eye Candy demo application is faster.

You can get the latest version, Windows binaries and online documentation
at http://matt.kimball.net/nodenet.html

-- 
Matt Kimball
matt at kimball.net

<.........................................




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Mar  1 04:37:50 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:37:50 -0500
Subject: Licensing of wrappers around C/C++ code under more restrictive
 licensing.
In-Reply-To: <3EF13084-6B1C-11D8-8ACE-000393DCF16E@dscpl.com.au>
References: <7ed8f64d.0402280218.5ff447cf@posting.google.com>	<du7ishrmqsv.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<dc6f5c99.0402281637.71f8a571@posting.google.com>
	<404173FA.3040503@rogers.com>
	<3EF13084-6B1C-11D8-8ACE-000393DCF16E@dscpl.com.au>
Message-ID: <4043046E.500@rogers.com>

Graham Dumpleton wrote:

>
> On 29/02/2004, at 4:09 PM, Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>
>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>> ...
>
>> If I understand correctly, the QPL is basically a dual license 
>> encouraging you to either pay Trolltech or GPL your software.
>
>
> I presume you actually meant to say "QPL" and not "GPL" in this sentence.

I had, actually, meant GPL, referring to the effect, rather than the 
particular license, though it turns out I'd misunderstood the non-viral 
nature of the QPL.

> Anyway, have been looking at the QPL again, and as far as I can see, it
> doesn't force you to make any code you write which links with the QPL'd
> library available explicitly under the QPL. What it says is:
>
> 6. You may develop application programs, reusable components and other 
> software items that link with the original or modified versions of the 
> Software. These items, when distributed, are subject to the following 
> requirements:

True, it doesn't appear to require QPL licensing of linked works, only 
"Open Sourcing" of the works.

> Thus, as far as I can tell, it would be quite okay to make the Python
> wrappers themselves available under a BSD/MIT type license as opposed
> to the QPL license.

Looks that way.

> 3. You may make modifications to the Software and distribute your 
> modifications, in a form that is separate from the Software, such as 
> patches.
>
> That is, need to be able to say that the original package must always
> be redistributed as is, ie., in the form provided, with any changes
> being in a distinct package, such as a patch. I believe this should
> also prevent a free for all as far as people taking/stealing just bits
> of the package and reusing it in other things, but then in practice
> that is almost impossible to enforce. :-(

Sure, a patch that deletes 99% of the original (leaving just copyright 
notices) is pretty easy to create...

> If one had a LGPLish variant of the QPL which doesn't transfer
> conditions on linking, problem may be solved. I don't however now
> of any Open Source license which does that. Does anyone else?

Not me.  I stick to BSD licenses as much as is practical.  Makes 
everything simpler :) . That said, and modulo the annoyance of having 
another license to have to read, dropping the 6a and 6b clauses (on the 
advice of a lawyer, not me ;) ) would seem to have the desired effect 
(no effect on linked code, other than requiring that they be willing to 
give the changes back to you).  You'd likely want to stipulate "in 
source-code form", though.

Anyway, far too much time on this thread tonight.  Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 22:24:41 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:24:41 -0600
Subject: Python Equivalent??
In-Reply-To: <1a378204.0403091353.c06c62b@posting.google.com>
References: <1a378204.0403091353.c06c62b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040310032441.GD20145@unpythonic.net>

Here are the tools you need:
>>> import time, calendar

First, parse the string into a time tuple:
>>> tup = time.strptime(d, pattern)
>>> tup
(2001, 1, 1, 13, 0, 0, 0, 1, -1)

Then, use calendar.timegm to convert it to seconds-since-epoch:
>>> calendar.timegm(tup)
978354000

Now, make sure everything went right:
>>> assert time.gmtime(_)[:6] == tup[:6]
(The slice takes the year, month, day, hour, minute and second fields)

Here's the final function:
    def convertDateTime(d, pattern="%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"):
        tup = time.strptime(d, pattern)
        seconds = calendar.timegm(tup)
        assert time.gmtime(seconds)[:6] == tup[:6]
        return seconds

Or, for the terminally terse:
    def convertDateTime(d, p):
        return calendar.timegm(time.strptime(d, p))

Jeff



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 16 17:25:37 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 17:25:37 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<536ki1-lp3.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <c37ut1$c1q$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <536ki1-lp3.ln1 at valpo.de>, Mathias Waack  <M.Waack at gmx.de> wrote:
>Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>> Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string
>> "four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it.  Oddly enough,
>> Java (in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at automagic
>> polymorphism) will let you add them.  
>
>Thats not true, Java doesn't let you add an integer to a string. It
>only looks like that because of implicit type conversion. BTW the
>same holds for C++ if you are using a string type which allows this
>conversion. 

Ditto Python, but Python by default doesn't do implicit type conversion
and it's strongly discouraged.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar  8 08:17:20 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:17:20 -0000
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<roy-5F604D.12502107032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<153fa67.0403071751.157bb860@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104osj03g6ctf63@corp.supernews.com>

In article <153fa67.0403071751.157bb860 at posting.google.com>,
Kylotan <kylotan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
>news:<roy-5F604D.12502107032004 at reader2.panix.com>...
>
>> you might even be able to get away with no FooStub class at all, but 
>> simply instantiating your Bar test object with a constant:
>> 
>> def setUp (self):
>>    self.bar = Bar ("foo")
>> 
>> This is where the dynamic nature of Python really shines.  Something 
>> like C++ or Java would make you jump through a lot more hoops to make 
>> sure you instantiated your Bar with a valid Foo.
>
>Yeah, this is true. One of the favourite parts of my system is how I
>have a chain of delegation that passes down a 'graphic' object, and
>nothing except the two classes at the end of the chain need to know
>what type it is.
>
>However, as I think I mentioned in a previous reply on this thread,
>all my methods are there because they're the minimum that I require
>for valid functionality. Stubbing any of them out would make testing
>pointless.
>
>Personally, I don't consider my design to have 'high coupling'.
>However, each coupling is essential. For example, much of my design
>involves delegation; Class A calls an accessor in Class B which gets
>the information from a contained Class C behind the scenes. This
>design is explicitly there so that I have no dependency between A and
>C. However, it also means that I can't test B fairly without C.
>
>Maybe I just have no code that can be tested in isolation. In all
>fairness I don't have much significant code written yet. But as I
>thought you were supposed to code test cases as you go along, I
>thought I'd start now. But in fact it's proven to be pointless.
>
>> But the basic 
>> principle is the same in any OOPL; the more tighly coupled your classes 
>> are, the more difficult it is to test, maintain, and understand the 
>> system.
>
>I see one major difference here, though. In C++ I have to write lots
>of low-level classes to encapsulate various elements of functionality.
>These often have few or no dependencies and can be tested in
>isolation. In Python I don't need to write these low level classes, as
>the advanced syntax solves many of these problems for me. Generators
>and list comprehensions replace the need for many function objects.
>Tuples replace ad-hoc structures for returning multiple values.
>Dictionaries replace many of my C++ storage structures. All the
>low-coupling classes I used to write in C++ have been factored out of
>the system by the Python language. All that remains is the core of my
>system; a few specialised classes working in tandem.
>
>As I see it from my -very- limited experience of this one program I'm
>writing, the paradox is that Python makes unit testing so much easier
>and efficient, while making it less and less important to me.
>
>> One way or another, your classes need to interact, and the code that 
>> implements those interactions needs to exist (and thus needs to be 
>> tested).  The question is, where do you put that code?  Do you bury it 
>> inside the classes, making it difficult to test both the underlying 
>> classes and their interactions, or do you factor it out to someplace 
>> where you can test each piece in isolation?
>
>There's nowhere it can go that allows for such isolated testing. The
>coupling has to be done in order for the object to make sense. The
>only methods that don't involve other objects are trivial ones that
>are shorter than the associated test case would be.
			.
			.
			.
I'm sympathetic.  Me, too; I don't know how to excerpt your
post, 'cause every paragraph deserves comment.

First, one of the times I most feel like a Python zealot is
in talking about unit testing.  I find it essentially impos-
sible in C++ and Java, because *everything* in those languages
has a huge ratio of set-up to actual test.  It always feels 
like the only test I can make is with the whole program.

Python shifts the balance way to the other side--for the most
part.  I'm still trying to figure out what to advise in your
case.  It sounds as though your implementation has a lot of
clarity, in the sense that your source code simply says what
it means, and so precludes any need for testing.  That's a
good thing.  I have no qualms about asserting that I put my
effort into writing so simply that there can be no mistake.
Maybe your design is that good.

One aspect of testing that I emphasize is exceptions:  how do
my classes handle "bad" data?  I don't understand your situa-
tion well enough to know where this is relevant; if you can
prove that data will always be good, so much the better, but,
in general, I like to know that my classes will behave robustly
when anything goes wrong "upstream".

Like you and some of the other posters, I, too, have the 
instinct that a lack of testability suggests *something* is
amiss with the coupling in your design.  I'd be on the look-
out for an abstraction that further simplifies the relations
between objects.  On the other hand, it sounds as though
you've already searched for such simplifications as much as
you know how.

My conclusion:  I'd probably declare victory by inserting
comments to the effect that, "# I have constructed no unit
test for this class [or aspect X of this class], but instead
rely on inspection to prove that, if inputs A and B have 
properties P and Q, then the result will be S."
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 18 08:45:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:45:48 -0500
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
In-Reply-To: <c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>
	<c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <pdKdnSicPq2WNcTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Nicola Mingotti wrote:
> This is all what i wanted to know . 
> Even if i can't see it's utility , at least
> for the behaviour of the comparison between strings
> and numbers with every string considered greater of every int .

One example of its utility: in a sort algorithm, you would want to be 
able to produce consistent orderings of items in a list, even if some of 
the items were strings, and others were integers.  (That may in fact be 
its _only_ utility, for all I know.)

-Peter


From zhi.peng at dolphinsearch.com  Fri Mar 19 14:36:11 2004
From: zhi.peng at dolphinsearch.com (Zhi Peng)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:36:11 -0800
Subject: anyone knew mysql
Message-ID: <405B4BAB.5060709@dolphinsearch.com>

Hi!
Does anyone know if MySql support unicode data?
??????

???



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 22 19:28:59 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:59 +1100
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Brandon J. Van Every

He's ba-ack ...

Tim Delaney



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 03:35:18 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 09:35:18 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfu10q4iex.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

On 13 Mar 2004, at 08:07, Premshree Pillai wrote:

> Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
> so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> vars" pragma to force variable declaration.

I'm no Perler ... but by reading a bit of documentation, I get the
impression that you are a bit confused about what "use strict 'vars'"
really does. It seems to be some mish-mash of concepts: it imposes the
necessity to fully qualify names, to declare (the existence, not the
type of) variables with "our", and does some control of scoping rules.


Whatever it does, it seems that "use strict 'vars'" has absolutely
nothing to do with static typing.


So, I must ask you the same question as I asked Peter: "what do you
understand 'static typing' to mean?"


> Is there something like it in Python?

No.

> Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> important requirement in a language?

No. Absolutely not. I think that an important requirement in a
language is that it NOT *force* variable declaration. (Optional
declaration is fine.)


I do think that it is an important requirement in a language that test
suites be easily written in it. I also think that it is an important
requirement of developers that they write comprehensive test suites as
they develop their software. The test suites will catch ALL SORTS of
errors (including those resulting from type errors). Static type
systems, OTOH, catch only one, minor, class of errors (type errors),
and do so at great cost.


Static typing catches even those type "errors" which would in no way
prevent the program from running correctly. (Implicit static typing
systems are much better in this respect than manifest ones.)


Static typing makes the language more inflexible, and makes it much
more difficult to run incomplete programs. Why would I want to run an
incomplete program? Well, during the *whole* development phase, a
program is incomplete. Just think about that for a minute. And I would
certainly like to run my programs during development to test them.


Your average C++ programmer is so happy when the compiler eventually
complies his program without errors (even though it may signal 300
warnings), that he is convinced that the program is correct. "I
Suffered so much, and fixed so many errors to get this far. If the
compiler, which is so pedantic and spotted all those errors, can't
spot any more, then surely there _aren't_ any more errors in my
program." And he thinks he has finished. He hasn't been able to run
any tests so far (this is the first time that the program has
complied), so the program is almost guaranteed to be bug-infested, but
the thought of writing a test-suite at this point (if it would cross
his mind - it won't; the complier has already told him that his
program is error-free) would be so frightening that he would quickly
dismiss it. If, however, he did try to write a test suite, then the
third bug he'd find, would motivate him to make a tiny change which
would make the static typing system reject his _whole_ program. He
would then notice that the static type system forces a whole chain of
changes upon him, extending into parts of the program which are in no
way related to the part which he is actually trying to test, before
allowing him to run the program again, in order to check that his fix
works. That chain of changes would, of course, set off new chains of
changes along its way, and those chains ... you get the picture.


I think that manifest static typing systems are great way of slowing
down development, and ensuring less (sic) correct programs.


Variable declarations are usually just noise, which obfuscate the
program, and make it a pain to write.




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Mar  3 10:56:48 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:56:48 -0800
Subject: Replacing base class
In-Reply-To: <4045ed40@news.corbina.ru>
References: <4045ed40@news.corbina.ru>
Message-ID: <404608d0$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Alexey Klimkin wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> Is it possible in python to replace base class with another one?
I am not certain what you are asking here.  If you use new-style
classes, and I'm correct about what you want, try:

> class A:
-> class A(object):
>   def f(self):
>     print 'A'
> class B(A):
>   def f(self):
>     A.f(self)
->    super(B, self).f()   # or super(B).f(self) if you prefer
>     print 'B'
> class C:
->  class C(object):
>   def f(self):
>     print 'C'

> ... Any clues?
Hope this is a clue.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From python at rcn.com  Sun Mar 21 16:10:47 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 13:10:47 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhvnfba.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403211310.15764495@posting.google.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> I think it's best to stick with SHA, because of its longer hash,
> because it's a US federal standard, and because MD5 is already known
> to not meet its security goals (see Dobbertin's paper on finding
> collisions in MD5's compression function).

Okay, that is reasonable.



>  Python has already screwed
> up choosing its PRNG twice out of speed considerations, first with
> WHrandom, and when that wasn't random enough, then with MT, which
> still isn't random enough.

The cause won't be advanced by becoming a zealot or by insulting
people volunteering time to review your patch.  The three principal
maintainers of the module have been me, Tim, and Guido -- bashing all
three in one sentence is an unusual strategy ;-)

Also, the criticism of MT is baseless.



>  If we're selecting a PRNG for a third
> time, let's stop cutting corners and take care of the problem once and
> for all.

No corners were cut.  MT is a state-of-the-art psuedo random number
generator.  The problem is that you want encryption.

Haskell, Perl, Ruby, and SML also have not gone down your suggested
path.  A post to their newsgroups telling them that they are screwing
up and cutting corners likely will not be well received.  Of course,
that could just be part of the unusual strategy ;-)



> But MT has no security properties at all.  It's equivalent to just
> generating the whole output stream by hashing a sequential counter
> with a secret seed.

Right.  All of the security comes from the hashing step.



> No, I wanted cryptographic strength to both the left and right,
> otherwise I would have just hashed a counter.  I do care about
> inferring last week's numbers from this week's.  If you're playing
> poker with someone, you not only don't want him to see your cards
> unless he bets against you, you also don't want him to see the cards
> you were holding in the last hand when he folded.

That makes sense.  Still, the hashing step protects you.  Given a
series of 10,000 bits from the generator, do you have any means of
deducing either a) the state of MT, b) what came before, or c) what
comes after?


I'm keeping an open mind but will abandon this patch unless the tone
improves.



Raymond


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar  4 03:12:18 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:12:18 +0100
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
	<c268rn$1q8l0e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4046e4d7$0$4680$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

great thanks to all ! it does the trick !




From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 24 14:58:16 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 21:58:16 +0200
Subject: declaring multimethods [Was: Re: PEP 318]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du71xnip0a9.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <du7n066dnl3.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

Something just occured to me as far as multimethods go - would it be
beneficial for there to exist only one, global-all-the-way multimethod
dispatcher? This way declaring new multimethods in a module would
register themselves with the same global dispatcher that all the other
modules use. I.e.:

# module spam

def foo(x) [multimethod(str)]:
        pass

# module eggs

import spam

def foo(x) [multimethod(int)]:
        pass

foo("hello")  # calls foo in 'spam'

This would improve opportunities for creating multimethod-driven
frameworks that could e.g. specify that 'validate_request' multimethod
will be called with all the requests received, so the user should implement

def validate_request(req) [multimethod(DisconnectRequest)]:
        return True

if he chooses to acknowledge the request.

(I know this is a contorted example and better solutions already
exists, so no need to point it out).

The global-all-the-way approach seems a bit out of place in usually so
modular Python. It might be more desirable to provide utility
functions to choose a 'dispatcher-space', like this:

select_dispatcher("ultrawidget_multimethods")

# all the multimethod declarations now add their signatures to this
# dispatcher, and all the mm invocations search for signatures in this space

foo = import_multimethod("ultrawidget_multimethods", "foo")

# now you can call foo(42, "blah") without actually declaring a new
# multimethod in the current module. Otherwise the only way to bind
# 'foo' to the dispatcher would be declaring at least one multimethod.


In the modular, more Pythonic way, adding new multimethods to the same
dispatcher would require doing something like:

def foo(x) [multimethod_with_dispatcher(moduleb, str)]:
        pass

where foo would be registered with the multimethod dispatcher of moduleb.

All this is probably too complicated or "different" to bundle in
stdlib (even in a hypothetical handy_demo_decorators module), but it
might be a fun third-party module for someone to hack. Even plain
one-module dispatching would be a useful demo.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From olku at web.de  Wed Mar 17 11:02:25 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:02:25 +0100
Subject: Base64 encoding/decoding
Message-ID: <200403171602.i2HG2OQ07353@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hello,

I have a problem by converting a string to base64 and back again.

I have a string with german special chars like ????. 

This string i convert with base64str=base64.encode('????') into a base64 representation.

Backwards I got an error:


binascii.Error: Incorrect padding

I use base64.decode(base64str).

The charset I use is iso-iso-8859-1. 

What am I doing wrong? 

Is there somewhere a good tutorial bei encoding and decoding with different charsets? 
I get text from different sources and i have to decode it and convert it at the end to utf-8.




--?
--
Oliver?Kurz




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 24 19:21:19 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:21:19 +1100
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <16481.44233.113177.669585@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<20040324124103.GA23307@frobozz>
	<16481.44233.113177.669585@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20040325002119.GB17117@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 09:44:09AM -0600, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Andrew> How is the registry not going to help distinguish between the
>     Andrew> foo methods from C, and the foo methods from C2?
> 
> By keying the dispatch table on (foo, Matrix) or (foo, Long).  Note that
> your classes (C and C2) make no sense given that the first parameter to the
> multimethod() calls are Matrix and Long, respectively.

The first parameter thing is just a result of the confusion between myself
and Ville about whether we were discussing methods or functions... I thought
it was odd too, but I was trying to adapt the examples given earlier in the
thread as faithfully as I could, but I didn't realise Ville was talking
about functions, not methods.  Imagine my examples with the first argument
to multimethod removed, i.e.:

    class C:
        def foo(self, other):
            ...
        foo = multimethod(Matrix)(foo)
    
        def foo(self, other):
            ...
        foo = multimethod(Vector)(foo)
    
    class C2:
        def foo(self, other):
            ...
        foo = multimethod(String)(foo)

I still don't get how a implementation of multimethod using a global
dispatch table can support all of these calls correctly:

    c, c2 = C(), C2()
    c.foo(some_matrix)  # This is fine
    c.foo(some_vector)  # This is fine too
    c.foo(some_string)  # This should fail!
    c2.foo(some_matrix) # This should also fail!
    c2.foo(some_string) # This is fine

Well, maybe you can do it by stack introspection in the multimethod call to
determine what class definition you're in, but that's vile.

-Andrew.




From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  1 11:11:11 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:11:11 +0100
Subject: Image width, height.
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<cpafzcs366g.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <just-D6D502.17111101032004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <cpafzcs366g.fsf at cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>,
 Nelson Minar <nelson at monkey.org> wrote:

> Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> writes:
> > Is there a Py module available using which I can find
> > the width and height of any image format?
> 
> I'm not aware of one short of loading the whole image or shelling out
> to another tool.

PIL is such a Python package. It doesn't load the entire image if all 
you want to know are the dimensions.

Just


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 21 16:25:57 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:25:57 -0600
Subject: file.tell() ?
In-Reply-To: <731b3eeb.0403201635.8fa84d@posting.google.com>
References: <731b3eeb.0403201635.8fa84d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040321212557.GB2797@unpythonic.net>

When using a file as an iterator, multiple lines are read at a time.
If you have a long file, not all the lines will be read at once.
When I wrote xreadlines (for python 2.1 or 2.2) it was defined in terms of
readlines(SIZEHINT), but I am no longer familiar with the implementation.
I don't think the exact details are documented anywhere, or guaranteed
not to change between releases.

I wrote a small program to read all the lines in /usr/share/dict/words
and keep a record of all the positions returned by tell().  Here are the
results:
    [jepler at parrot jepler]$ cat /tmp/mcavoy.py 
    d = {}
    f = file("/usr/share/dict/words")
    for l in f:
        d[f.tell()] = None
    dk = d.keys()
    dk.sort()
    print dk
    print dk[-1] * 1.0 / len(dk) # Average block size

    [jepler at parrot jepler]$ python /tmp/mcavoy.py 
    [8196L, 16393L, 24596L, 32793L, 40994L, 49186L, 57379L, 65576L,
    73776L, 81972L, 90167L, 98362L, 106557L, 114750L, 122945L, 131137L,
    139332L, 147532L, 155729L, 163922L, 172119L, 180316L, 188515L,
    196710L, 204910L, 213105L, 221306L, 229505L, 237697L, 245896L,
    254088L, 262291L, 270486L, 278688L, 286893L, 295092L, 303288L,
    311488L, 319687L, 327884L, 336082L, 344277L, 352474L, 360675L,
    368869L, 377061L, 385261L, 393459L, 401656L, 409305L]
    8186.1

As you can see, my Python reads about 8K at a time, which is a perfectly
reasonable amount on any machine I still use.

Jeff



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 16:57:46 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 22:57:46 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<bUm8c.123261$Wa.101889@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <tyf8yhphpr9.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz:
> 
> > "After", is far too late, in my opinion. It's a bit like suggesting to
> > a static-typing-for-safety fan, that he should only run his program
> > through the compiler _after_ he has finished developing.
> 
>    That is actually a view held by some people and has been attempted on
> some projects: the programmers do not have access to compilers and deliver
> their code to someone else when complete.

I'm just checking the date ... no, it's not April the first.

> I think all these projects failed.

You surprise me.

> There was a well known case here in Australia at IBM where one person snuck
> in a compiler and managed to outperform all his colleagues until discovered.

It's not December 28th, either[*]. I'm beginning to suspect that you
might actually be serious.

Do you have a reference describing such an attempt?


[*] You probably have to be Spanish to get this reference.



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 15:59:26 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 12:59:26 -0800
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>
	<c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<pdKdnSicPq2WNcTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403181259.6d37bdf6@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<pdKdnSicPq2WNcTdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
> Nicola Mingotti wrote:
> > This is all what i wanted to know . 
> > Even if i can't see it's utility, at least
> > for the behaviour of the comparison between strings
> > and numbers with every string considered greater of every int .
> 
> One example of its utility: in a sort algorithm, you would want to be 
> able to produce consistent orderings of items in a list, even if some of 
> the items were strings, and others were integers.  (That may in fact be 
> its _only_ utility, for all I know.)

Then, instead of having broken operators in the language, why not
redefine the sort routine?

>>> def _transform(x):
...    if isinstance(x, (int, long, float)):
...       return ('', x)
...    elif isinstance(x, complex):
...       return ('', x.real, x.imag)
...    else:
...       return (type(x).__name__, x)
...
>>> def _untransform(tpl):
...    if len(tpl) == 3:
...       return complex(tpl[1], tpl[2])
...    else:
...       return tpl[1]
...
>>> def sortedCopy(lst):
...    transformedList = [_transform(x) for x in lst]
...    transformedList.sort()
...    return [_untransform(x) for x in transformedList]
...
>>> sortedCopy([2L, 'spam', 42, 2+1j, 3.14159])
[2L, (2+1j), 3.1415899999999999, 42, 'spam']


From bscholln at mac.com  Thu Mar  4 18:59:58 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:59:58 GMT
Subject: Need a Progress Bar/Meter for Tkinter
Message-ID: <040320041859589376%bscholln@mac.com>

Folks,

   I am really not having much luck...

   I thought the ContriD addon for Python MegaWidgets had a progress
bar, but can't find the site any more...  (It's been a long time since
I did any Tkinter GUI work...)

   So far, I have had no luck with METER from TIX...  Tix on Windows
2000 seems to be far from a suitable system.  It is complaining that
the TIX8183.dll can not be loaded....

   So far, I have also examined EASYGUI, and a few others and have not
been able to find a simple Progress bar.

   Can anyone point me towards a working Tkinter based progress bar?

         - Benjamin


From harald.nyman at astrazeneca.com  Tue Mar  9 13:29:12 2004
From: harald.nyman at astrazeneca.com (Harald)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 10:29:12 -0800
Subject: Brent Ashley's JavaScript remote scripting (JSRS)
References: <20040229125027.01774.00000642@mb-m22.aol.com>
	<2004022913082827544%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <751fc9e5.0403091029.740cee47@posting.google.com>

I'd say it works. Caveats, like Bob says - may become browser-dependent.
Have done a few of these, with JavaScript + a small applet in the page.
(Not JSRS, though (not even HTTP..))

1) Page with a progress bar + some status fields to be updated w/o refresh.
   Uses a small Python socket server, polled by the applet.
2) Web app with ~15 pages created by Python+CGI. Slow, as Python starts and
   imports modules for each page. Instead of CGI, we tried a threaded Twisted
   TCP server, started once, importing everything. Ok, not "interactive page",
   but _fast_. Tricky things were handling cookies + form data; these are
   compiled by JavaScript into 'dictionaries' (text), eval'ed by Python.
3) File manager. Backend is a servlet (this was before I met Python :),
   handling file/directory operations, and sending back HTML to the applet,
   which updates the page dynamically. Very interactive.

Harald

Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com> wrote in message news:<2004022913082827544%bob at redivicom>...
> On 2004-02-29 12:50:27 -0500, piedmontbiz at aol.com (PiedmontBiz) said:
> 
> > I am looking for ways to do interactive web pages with python as a backend.
> > 
> > I ran across serveral articles on Brent Ashley's JavaScript remote scripting
> > (JSRS) locateded at http://www.ashleyit.com/rs/
> > 
> > This package allows a client web browser to transfer data to and from the
> > server without loading reloading pages.... as I understand it. The resulting
> > "application" would be have like a desktop application.
> > 
> > I downloaded and am now studying the code.
> > There are no demos with a web page calling a python script but I am going to
> > whip something up soon.
> > 
> > Anyone with any experience with this? Does it really work? Any caveats?
> 
> There is something like this in Twisted called LivePage.. and a newer 
> version in Nevow called Evil something or another :)  I don't believe 
> either has the kind of compatibility matrix that JSRS does, though.
> 
> The biggest caveat really is that it's now a javascript application, 
> not a web page, and not all browsers are created equally.
> 
> -bob


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 17 21:42:31 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:42:31 +0100
Subject: uid_t, gid_t issue in python tests?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.103.1079555220.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.103.1079555220.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3b2ao$6qb$06$1@news.t-online.com>

John Marshall wrote:
> Shouldn't this code expect unsigned int, one way
> or another (as unsigned int, uid_t, gid_t, ...)?

Perhaps. However, this would break on systems where
getgrgid is defined to take an int as its argument.

Regards,
Martin



From pernell.h.williams.nospam at intel.com  Wed Mar 17 19:21:44 2004
From: pernell.h.williams.nospam at intel.com (Pernell Williams)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:21:44 -0800
Subject: Specific question about readlines versus xreadlines
Message-ID: <c3aq2p$6v6$1@news01.intel.com>

Hi all:



Thank you for your responses. I have a more specific question about
"file.seek() and file.readline()" versus "file.seek() and file.xreadlines".



When I have the following code:



#!/usr/bin/env python



#opening the file for reading

str = 'myShortFile'

file = open(str, 'r')

counter = 0

#outer loop using file.readline



while 1:

  line = file.readline()

  if line == '':

    break

  data = line

  print data

  file.seek(12)

# end while



And the input file is:

 abc

 def

 ghi



The above code with the readline statement is:

abc



In other words, the code reads the first line of the file, goes to position
12 (which is the end of the last line of the file), and then during the
second iteration of the while loop, the position of the file is at 12.



Now, with xreadlines(), it is a different story. I have this code:



#!/usr/bin/env python



#opening the file for reading

str = 'myShortFile'

file = open(str, 'r')

counter = 0



#outer loop using file.xreadlines



for line in file.xreadlines():

  data = line

  print data

  file.seek(12)

# end while



and if I have the same input file as above, I get this output:



abc



def



ghi



In other words, even though I have the "file.seek(12)" statement in the
loop, the position is NOT changed to 12 during the 2nd iteration of the
while loop.



Is there ANYTHING I can do in this "xreadlines()" loop to make it go to
position 12 in the second iteration?



Thanks for your help!



-Pernell




-- 
Remove ".nospam" from e-mail address to reply




From me at privacy.net  Thu Mar 18 14:00:52 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 14:00:52 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <105jorolc069r50@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m2u10mgeu3.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:58:03 -0500,
"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

> Second, what is it about which tools that you don't like?  Be
> specific, I'm sure that at least some of the tool vendors would
> like feedback on their pride and joy.

Every IDE is built around a text editor.  Software development is
executing processes and procedures, i.e., workflow.  No IDE is
quite like $EDITOR and $SHELL, which I have been using for
<mumble> years.  Operating $EDITOR is hard-wired into my fingers.
Customizing and extending $EDITOR in my own arguably convoluted
ways, and writing $SHELL scripts/programs/tools for my own
workflow habits, increases my comfort and my productivity.
If/when IDE developers realize how personal $EDITOR and my
personal collection of $SHELL tools have become, and if/when
$EDITOR becomes a drop-in replacement widget for the IDE(s) in
question, there's a chance that that IDE may approach the
productivity and comfort levels I acheive using $EDITOR and
$SHELL.

Remember USCD Pascal?

Excel : Visual Basic :: IDE : Programming Language.

The typical SmallTalk or Lisp environment might come close, but
their footprints are larger than Sasquatch's.  Also, those
environments, when done right, are SmallTalk or Lisp "all the way
down" into the OS, which makes for a more homogenous experience
than what I usually feel like I get with today's "modern" IDEs
glued atop an OS and a GUI.

End of rant.  Sorry.

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 08:21:56 2004
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (google account)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 05:21:56 -0800
Subject: Mysql-python installation problems....
Message-ID: <e84f5d12.0403060521.17371bfc@posting.google.com>

*sigh*

I have done all that I know how....

I am using fedora core1,  I believe.  I have updated the MySQL version
to 4.0.17-0.

I am trying this:

rpm -i MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm 
warning: MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY,
key ID 930b8ab6
error: Failed dependencies:
        libmysqlclient_r.so.10 is needed by MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1

I have created symlinks to this file in /usr/lib and also in
/usr/local/bin,  in the hopes that it would make a difference.   I
even paid enough attention to detail to notice that the file in
question was itself a symlink and created symlinks directly to the
root file.  still the same error.




Unfortunately,  I notice my python version is 2.2.3.  So I try to
install from the tarball....


I get the following errors:

python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
creating build
creating build/lib.linux-i686-2.2
copying CompatMysqldb.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2
copying _mysql_exceptions.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2
creating build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
copying MySQLdb/__init__.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
copying MySQLdb/converters.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
copying MySQLdb/connections.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
copying MySQLdb/cursors.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
copying MySQLdb/sets.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
copying MySQLdb/times.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb
creating build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/__init__.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/CR.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/FIELD_TYPE.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/ER.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/FLAG.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/REFRESH.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
copying MySQLdb/constants/CLIENT.py ->
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/MySQLdb/constants
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.2
gcc -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC
-fPIC -I/usr/include/mysql -I/usr/local/include/mysql
-I/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c _mysql.c
-o build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/_mysql.o
_mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:42:26: mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:43:20: errmsg.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:73: error: syntax error before "MYSQL"
_mysql.c:73: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:76: error: syntax error before '}' token
_mysql.c:76: warning: data definition has no type or storage class....


This is only the beginning,  it seems to find hundreds of syntax
errors along the way.


I have no coder skill at all, and only a moderate level of admin
skill.  The box itself I have built,  it is not yet in production and
I can do *anything* to it.

I am hoping for suggestions....


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 06:22:34 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:22:34 -0000
Subject: name of this python program
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443477D@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>hi there
>
>when i start a python script with 
>        python myprog.py 
>how can i find out the name of my script ("myprog.py") inside 
>the script
>itself. looking for something like args[0]...

That'll be:

<code>
import sys
print sys.argv[0]
</code>

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 25 08:35:34 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:35:34 -0500
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<406203c0$0$208$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1065o1pqo321ccb@news.supernews.com>


"Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at inbound.dk> wrote in message
news:406203c0$0$208$edfadb0f at dread16.news.tele.dk...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> > "Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> > > Ick! Having passed through PEP 308, I just prefer directly agree with
> > Guido's
> > > decision without any votation at all ;)
> >
> > Half of the 308 problem was because Guido wasn't willing to make a
> decision.
> >
> > The other half was the voting method used.
>
> The third half of the problem was the people got wound up about
> details in the voting system.  Details that would have been relevant
> in a winner-takes-all vote, but were less than interesting in a
> BDFL-guidance-vote.

I don't remember that at all, although it may have taken
place on the deveoper's list (which I don't read). What
I remember is a simple statement of how the vote would
be conducted. Of course, I could simply have skipped that
debate as being uninteresting.

John Roth
>
> - Anders
>
>
>




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 19 17:17:36 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 14:17:36 -0800
Subject: translating "setattr" to C++
References: <87oeqtkruw.fsf@subopt.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403191417.7db2c2d5@posting.google.com>

Eric <eric at lentil.com> wrote in message news:<87oeqtkruw.fsf at subopt.austin.rr.com>...
> Slightly off topic, i know, but here goes:
> 
> I'm trying to xlate a module of mine to C++. Only problem is, it makes
> heavy use of "setattr". Anyone know a straightforward way to do
> "setattr" in C++ ?

No, but there's a workaround.

Instead of referring to the fields of an object as, for example, x.foo
and x.bar, store your object's data in a hash table with "foo" and
"bar" as keys.


From no.mail at available.net  Mon Mar  8 04:09:22 2004
From: no.mail at available.net (Georgy)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:09:22 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <6LW2c.82548$eL2.4312788@twister.southeast.rr.com>


"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote in message news:vpbth1-drb.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com...
| Here is how you conventionally write it without continue 2
|
| for line in lines:
|      chars=line
|      sawspecial=False
|      for z in chars:
|          if z=='!':
|              sawspecial=True
|              break
|      if not sawspecial:
|          print chars # and other work
|
| Note how at the important point you have to write 'break', despite
| thinking 'continue' in your head.  You have to introduce a new
| state variable.  As I said, this gets a lot worse if there are
| multiple conditions in which you want to break/continue multiple
| levels (more variables, more 'continues' where you think 'break'
| and vice versa).
|
| Roger

I guess 'for' with 'else' part could help here, but I personally never
remembered to which condition is that 'else' part, because for me
'for' is not a condition but a loop. Maybe other people can write
the solution with 'for-else'. Anyway it won't be clearer to the reader,
than simplier schemes with plain for-break-continue and try-catch.

Georgy




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 25 02:31:08 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:31:08 +0100
Subject: Globbing in List Search?
References: <4LGdndsGmLrdv__dRVn-tw@centurytel.net>
	<OeSdndZlc6cou__dRVn-gg@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <c3u1rt$sf5$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Ed Suominen wrote:

> k = x.index(filter(lambda x: x.startswith(term), x)[0])
> 
> where "term" acts like it has an implicit "*" at the end.
> 
> Any better ideas?
> 
> Ed Suominen wrote:
> 
>> Does Python have a globbing-type list search capability, like "lsearch
>> -glob $list" in TCL?

The glob module has a reference to fnmatch, which should meet your needs:

>>> names = ["axb", "asowhatb", "abc"]

Find all matches:

>>> fnmatch.filter(names, "a*b")
['axb', 'asowhatb']


Find all matching indices:

>>> [i for (i, n) in enumerate(names) if fnmatch.fnmatch(n, "a*b")]
[0, 1]

Find first matching index or -1:
 
>>> def index(names, pattern):
...     for i, n in enumerate(names):
...             if fnmatch.fnmatch(n, pattern):
...                     return i
...     return -1
...
>>> index(names, "a*b")
0
>>> index(names, "a*x")
-1
>>>

Peter



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 13:07:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:07:50 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c4c3uk$646$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4c3uk$646$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4cd7p$lcb$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I was watching system performance simultaneously and noticed a
> decrease of free RAM memory by ~ 10 MB on starting and the same
> increase on stopping. But the dlls - once loaded - apparently
> are kept in RAM.

That is what Windows does.  Using an oft used cliche in a different 
realm that always made me laugh, "Don't hate the player, hate the game". 
  In this case, the player is wxPython, the game is 'running on Windows'.

There may be some method to tell windows to evict currently unused dlls, 
but I wouldn't hold my breath.

  - Josiah


From bscholln at mac.com  Sun Mar  7 14:55:55 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:55:55 GMT
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <070320041455559019%bscholln@mac.com>

In article <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg
<dmq at gain.com> wrote:

> The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits and
> pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen CPL.
> String processing, for example, is one area where we may face some
> difficulty.  Here is a typical line of garbage from a statefile
> revision control system (simplified to eliminate some items that pose
> no new challenges):
> 
> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
> 
> The problem is to break this into its component parts, and eliminate
> spaces and other gradoo.  The cleaned-up list should look like:
> 
> ['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']
> 
> # Ruby:
> # clean = line.chomp.strip('.').squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)
> 
> This is pretty straight-forward once you know what each of the methods
> do.
> 
> # Current best Python:
> clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]
> 
> This is too much to expect of a non-programmer, even one who
> undestands the methods.  The usability problems are 1) the three
> variations in syntax ( methods, a list comprehension, and what *looks
> like* a join function prefixed by some odd punctuation), and 2) The
> order in which each step is entered at the keyboard.  ( I can show
> this in step-by-step detail if anyone doesn't understand what I mean.)
> 3) Proper placement of parens can be confusing.

David,

   I think your coming at this too much like a programmer...  |-)

   Your right, this is tooo complex for a non-programmer to expect
to simply use...

   So redefine the problem, or look at it from a 90 degree angle.

   If making the users understand the syntax is to complex, than
redefine the syntax.

   Define a set of commands, and make them function wrappers around
your code.

> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"

   I am assuming your running into these lines on a regular basis, so
make a wrapper around your python function...  Call it "Cleanup" or
"Parse_bar_line_string" or something that makes sense to your
users, and have them call that function....

         - Benjamin


From mouyg at neusoft.com  Fri Mar  5 10:06:52 2004
From: mouyg at neusoft.com (amou)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 07:06:52 -0800
Subject: how can I&#12288;strip it?
Message-ID: <49d6f0fc.0403050706.17cb31a8@posting.google.com>

Hi~
I wrote a funtion to sent a cgi request and recieve a string, like this:

#~
import httplib, mimetools

requestor = httplib.HTTP('192.168.5.253',80)
requestor.putrequest('post','/cgi-bin/vma.py?content=url&argument=aafaa')
requestor.putheader('Host', '192.168.5.253')
requestor.endheaders()
(status_code, message, reply_headers) = requestor.getreply()
reply_body = requestor.getfile().read()
#print status_code
#print message
print reply_body
#print len(reply_body)
#~
when I reveive a string, len(reply_body) is allways 2 bigger then it was sent.
why?


From hamilcar at never.mind  Mon Mar 15 22:45:53 2004
From: hamilcar at never.mind (Hamilcar Barca)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:45:53 -0700
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040315224552.028$iF@news.newsreader.com>

In article <c353om$23bqmc$1 at ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de> (Mon, 15 Mar 2004
21:28:47 +0100), Luca T. wrote:

> r,w,e = popen2.popen3('su -c ls')
> 
> So it seems that "su" refuses to work if it is run like this.

su needs the user's password and it insists on reading it from a tty
because it can control echoing.

> any idea about how i could run a 
> program as root from inside my python program?

1) Can you run your program in a shell?  The user will still need
   root's password.

2) Create a copy of ls and make it suid root.  The user will be able
   to list the files in any directory -- will this compromise security?


From roy at panix.com  Fri Mar  5 19:23:22 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:23:22 -0500
Subject: Null-terminated strings with struct module?
Message-ID: <roy-F3219B.19232205032004@reader2.panix.com>

I need to generate packed binary data which includes null-terminated 
strings mixed in with binary numbers.  For example, the Python string 
"foo" needs to become the 4-character binary string "foo\0", just like a 
C string (don't ask, I didn't design the protocol).

What's the best way to do this?  The "s" format specifier in struct 
gives me fixed-length, non-null-terminated strings.  Right now I'm doing:

        s1 = self.directory + "\0"
        s2 = self.fileName + "\0"
        s3 = self.dateString + "\0"
        s4 = self.name + "\0"
        s5 = struct.pack ("!IB", self.id, self.perTargetFlag)
        data = s1 + s2 + s3 + s4 + s5

which is pretty ugly.  Is there a neater way to do this?

I know the string addition isn't the most efficient way to go, but for 
this application, I prefer the clarity and don't mind the minor speed 
hit.


From amk at amk.ca  Wed Mar 31 11:08:58 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:08:58 -0600
Subject: PyCon success stories wanted
Message-ID: <sLadnfwnbr-HcPfdRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>

The PyCon organizers are trying to get more information about the things
that got done at PyCon -- code written, project decisions made, etc.  This
is useful for figuring out which parts of the conference were the most
useful, and for PR purposes.

Please record your PyCon accomplishments at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PyCon2004Successes.  Thanks!

--amk


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 28 11:11:02 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:11:02 -0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<jKKdnVcj5pGpEcLdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
	<du7isgw83n5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<c3t11s$619$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <106du8m3k5kts0b@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c3t11s$619$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl>,
Jarek Zgoda  <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I started writing programs in Python when I discovered famous APS (NTLM
>Authorization Proxy Server, written by Mr. Rozmanov) -- a clever piece
>of code, that performs some nasty trick in corporate networks, where
>ladmins use NTLM Authorization on web proxies, and enables one to use
>any webbrowser, not only MSIE (Mozilla Team *plans* to incorporate NTLM
>Authorization in future). In my >15 years of professional programming
>such thing happened only this one time.
			.
			.
			.
I don't understand the last sentence; what's the part that's
unprecedented?

I know you rarely do e-mail, and I'm not set up for Jabber 
this weekend, so I resort to Usenet, for now.  Congratulations
on JPA, by the way.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 11:00:37 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:00:37 +0100
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
In-Reply-To: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
References: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c27jpk$419$1@swifty.westend.com>

Boogie El Aceitoso schrieb:
> How can I catch a generic exception (without knowing a priori what exception
> it will be)?
> 
> For example, something like this
> try:
>    generateSomeException()
> except e:
>   print e

did you mean catch or throw?

--- catch:

try:
     generateSomeException()
except Exception, e: # Mother of all exceptions
     print e

--- throw:

try:
     raise Exception, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
except e:
     print e


-- 
Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar  5 04:05:13 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:05:13 -0800
Subject: Python's equivalent of C++ std::multimap
References: <h37f40druvjf3qc2k9fmc4c9414q6mknc5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <404842C9.E4932A57@alcyone.com>

Boogie El Aceitoso wrote:

> What's Python's equivalent of C++'s std::multimap? Is there any
> 'multidict'?

No, but there's nothing preventing a dictionary from having values that
are sequences.  This would be the traditional Python way of getting the
equivalent of a std::multimap.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ All men think all men mortal, save themselves.
    -- Edmund Young


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Mar 27 17:32:37 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:32:37 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
Message-ID: <000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >    - Connections are accepted over SSL
> 
> I don't know how much work it would take to make this happen.

There needs to be an SSL class that can be used for accepting
connections.  At the minimum it needs to be supplied a certifcate
(or certificate chain).  The more security conscious would need
to be able to restrict SSL versions and cipher suites.

> >    - Verification of HTTP authentication information
> 
> You don't need a callback to do this, just subclass
> SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler, override do_POST, and do authentication before
> calling the base implementation.

I did, except the base implementation can't be called.  It hs this line of
code in it:

    self.connection.shutdown(1)

ie it will close the connection after every response, no matter what.

> >    - Connections are kept open/keep-alive (HTTP/1.1)
> 
> This is a one line patch. Feel free to submit it.

Well, if it is that easy I would have.  In fact, go ahead.  All the existing
code goes out of its way to use a connection for exactly one request/response
and then close it, and the main loops go out of their way to get a new
connection.

> >    - Use of a bounded thread pool that handles the connections
> 
> This is too tied to your implementation requirements. If you want something
> like this then you should add a PooledThreadingTCPServer class to
> SocketServer.py and then trivially subclass that in SimpleXMLRPCServer.py
> as:

It isn't that trivial.  See also previous comment about all the pieces of
code that try to use connections etc at most once.  Additionally, you
may call this an implementation requirement, but at the end of the
day any code that has to be on the open Internet needs to do some form
of bounding to prevent DOS attacks.  (The existing library code can
be trivially made to crash by opening thousands of connections and
not sending anything).

Just to reiterate.  It looks simple.  It looks like a few tweaks here
and there should result in the library working better.  However it
isn't like that as anyone who tries it will find out.  I already have 
a solution for my project (which also has to work under Python 2.2).

Roger



From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Sat Mar  6 20:18:41 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 01:18:41 GMT
Subject: DCOracle2
Message-ID: <RLu2c.48$Bn.10@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Does anyone know if DCOracle2 still being supported?  The last stable
version seems to be back in 2002. Thanks!

kbass




From artifice_1_SPAM_ME_NOT at PLEASE_hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 10:26:14 2004
From: artifice_1_SPAM_ME_NOT at PLEASE_hotmail.com (Ju-Lian Kwan)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:26:14 -0500
Subject: Debugging Extensions using Visual Studio 7.1
Message-ID: <MfGdndVflcNSZdjdRVn-uQ@golden.net>

Does anyone know how to get this to work? I've done a fair bit of 
searching with Google and couldn't turn up anything. I just want to get 
debugging to work so I've built a DLL using VC7 and it runs fine. I set 
breakpoints in some of the code. Set the command line/args to run the 
program from python, and then it craps out with: "Fatal Python error: 
Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"

Does anyone have any suggestions? Apart from building a debug python so 
I can set break points in it?


From jwhinfinity at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 00:57:53 2004
From: jwhinfinity at yahoo.com (Reynard T. Fox)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 21:57:53 -0800
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
References: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f68536b6.0403162157.7d9d1ad0@posting.google.com>

Tina <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message news:<VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if there is a way to insert dynamic program code as data.
> For some reason I'm thinking Python does this. But I may be confused with
> another language or the article itself. I do think I could do this calling
> Python thru C, but that seems a bit clunky.
> 
> I'm including some of my code to learn stuff as well in case there's a
> better way to do things then how I currently am.
> 
> The program is a simple RPG character creator. (In this case from the
> Stormbringer 4th Ed RPG) In this, each character has a nation they hail
> from with attribute modifiers. These mods are listed under each nation as:
> 
> d100 to determine nation, nation name, 
> [att # to mod, # of dice, die type, final static bonus]
> 
> The problem is there's a bunch of "what if's" that are comming up. Not only
> for the nation list, but especially the character background list which is
> different for most nations and based on different attributes mixed with
> rolls. My initial thought is to include this list as a sub-list within the
> main nation list.
> 
> One "what if" is for Myrrhyn women to have +1d6 CHA. Now I could put this in
> the main code but I'm trying to make the basic generator as generic as
> possible for re-use.
> 
> Any help is appreciated!
> 
> Tina
> 

The design I'm implementing for my game(which is going to be a 2d
action game) is to write entire gameplay classes independently of the
main code, pack them into pickle files, then load the pickles into a
list, which is then referenced by the map I'm working on. The map
files, in turn, contain positions and references and a list of class
pickles to load, so that when the map is first loaded, there are
meta-objects in the corresponding positions that can be passed
arbitrary parameters to generate the ones actually wanted, and mods
can be created by simply recompiling the pickled classes or making new
ones for new maps. By giving all the classes common methods, I can
ensure that they work within the engine framework.

I've got it mostly done now: I can take a class from within the same
module and generate an arbitrary instance of it off of a pre-existing
meta. I just have to add the external functionality.

My system covers a lot more than what you need for your project, but
some of the same ideas can apply: You could make functions for every
nation's modifiers, and then load them into a list. The only tricky
part, then, comes in figuring out a way to make referencing the
nations modular, too. This is sort of the way I might do it:

diebounds = 0, 100
dielimits = [25, 50, 75, 100] # at each limit you have a different
nation
nationlist = [one(), two(), three(), four()]

(...we get a die roll)

increment=0

for x in dielimits:
    if roll<=x:
        nationlist


From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Mar  4 09:57:32 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:57:32 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <c26b3f$bor$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz wrote:

> In article <slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam at rose.localdomain.fake>,
> Ben Finney  <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote:
>>
>>Python has introduced many students to the benefits of
>>properly-implemented OOP.  It's good to know that you've got this strong
>>start.
> 
> Gee, I must be *really* sick: it took me four tries before I stopped
> reading this as "poorly-implemented OOP".

I would call it *pragmatically* implemented OOP.  It's not "proper" as some
would see it.

Dave Cook


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar  2 05:34:25 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:34:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: csv bugs
Message-ID: <slrnc48oph.8ob.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

It seems that when a line termination is escaped (using the current
escape character), csv.reader treats it as a line continuation, which
is well an good -- but it doesn't discard the escape character;
instead, it escapes it implicitly. This seems like a bug to me. E.g.

  foo:bar:baz\
  frozz:bozz

with separator ':' and escape character '\\' is parsed into

  ['foo', 'bar', 'baz\\\nfrozz', 'bozz']

In my opinion, it *ought* to be parsed into

  ['foo', 'bar', 'baz\nfrozz', 'bozz']

As far as I know, this is the UNIX convention, as used in (e.g.)
/etc/passwd.

Am I off target here? If the current behaviour is desirable (although
I can't see why it should be) then at least I think there should be a
way of implementing "normal" line continuations (as in my example),
which is the standard UNIX behavior, and the behavior of Python
source, for that matter. Otherwise, csv can't be used to parse (e.g.)
/etc/passwd...

And another thing: Perhaps a 'passwd' dialect could be added alongside
'excel'? Something like:

class passwd(Dialect):
    delimiter = ':'
    doublequote = False
    escapechar = '\\'
    lineterminator = '\n'
    quotechar = '?'
    quoting = QUOTE_NONE
    skipinitialspace = False
register_dialect("passwd", passwd)

For some reason you *have* to supply a quotechar, even if you set
QUOTE_NONE... I guess that's a bug too, in my book.

If there are no objections, I might submit some of this as a bug
report or two (or even a patch).

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland           "The mind is not a vessel to be filled,
http://hetland.org            but a fire to be lighted."  [Plutarch]


From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Tue Mar  9 14:15:36 2004
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 14:15:36 -0500
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hdwxj0h3.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>


I always come back to (X)Emacs in the end. 

I've been dallying with SciTE recently, and it has some very nice
features, among them the fact that it can be run directly from a
USB-Flash drive (which often saves me from having to use Notepad to
edit text on Win32 systems). The folding is elegant, the syntax
highlighting sophisticated.

However, SciTE is Win32 and Linux only, and doesn't have a
terminal/console mode. This means that I have to fire up Emacs if I'm
on a Mac or accessing a remote system via ssh.

Sometimes I try out the current crop of editors, but it always seems
as though I'm just playing. Like I said, I always come back to
(X)Emacs in the end.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 10:56:43 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 16:56:43 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<tyfisgx6wfo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<105tr24i9fak784@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tyfoeqo6fk4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> "Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
> news:tyfisgx6wfo.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch...
> > Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> writes:
> >

> > I teach Python courses ... 

[...]

> > fairly early on in the treatment of classes, I point out that
> > there is nothing special about the name "self", but I usually ask
> > the students what they make of it, before offering any of my own
> > comments.
> 
> Excellent class design! When I was doing classes, I found
> one of the most important questions I could ask myself in
> the after-the-class analysis was "what could I have said
> earlier that would have dealt with this question / confusion?"

[...]

> > > - Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self"
> > > in next versions of Python.
> >
> > That would be acceptable ...
> 
> Only if the intention is to move to making it a built-in. Otherwise there
> really are people who use some other name than self (usually to save
> keystrokes.)

... just after I say that there is nothing special about "self" (in my
Python courses), I plead that, even though you are allowed to use any
name you like, you should use "self", and nothing but "self", on the
grounds that this will ensure that other Python programmers (which
includes yourself at a later date) will immediately understand what
you are doing; while you are likely to cause lots of confusion if you
use anything other than "self". At this point I usually re-iterate
that clearly showing your intentions, is very much good Python
style. (If I'm feeling in "that sort of mood" I might even point out
that if you want to save keystrokes, then you know where you can find
Perl.)

If a warning such as Nicolas proposes were introduced, I hope that it
would be suppressable. If so, I suspect that it would be a very useful
feature. I think that making the name "self" obligatory would run very
much against some of the basic Python philosophies.


From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Mar 25 04:42:32 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:32 +0100
Subject: using MySQLdb module
In-Reply-To: <4062A23B.9060601@zslide.com>
References: <40619FBD.2010609@zslide.com> <4061A9C0.9000001@ghaering.de>
	<4062A23B.9060601@zslide.com>
Message-ID: <4062A988.7070604@ghaering.de>

vincent Salaun wrote:
> thanks for your response, i'm using zxJDBC 
> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/zxjdbc) now and it works very well :)
> Now i realize that some modules only work with "traditional" python as 
> you said ....  i'd like to know what are these modules which only work 
> with python.

Please reply to the mailing list/newsgroup next time instead of emailing 
me directly ;-)

Any modules that use the C interface of Python, i. e. which have parts 
written in C, not in Python won't work with Jython. That would include 
all database interfaces and operating system specific stuff.

> Most of the standard python modules have been adapted to jython, no ?

Indeed.

-- Gerhard



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 16:37:50 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 22:37:50 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<c34r1d$1dq$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <tyfllm1lrkh.fsf@lxplus020.cern.ch>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:

> Most would call Python strongly, dynamically typed.

Hmm.

Most would call Python a snake :-)

Of those that have heard of the programming language, most would
probably call it weakly typed.

They would be wrong. Being in the majority does not make you
right. (Even being Guido does not make you right, in spite of what
Peter Hickman might believe.)

I would _hope_ that most c.l.py readers would call Python strongly,
dynamically typed, but I wouldn't put any money on it.


From http  Tue Mar 30 03:11:29 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 00:11:29 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<c4am81$2ha0mj$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<Zv9ac.69033$cx5.9713@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <7xfzbqiwjy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> If you were designing a new interpreter, would you consider
> reference counting an evil pain for C coders (as I did) and use some
> other GC, or do you think I made a mistake?  Is there a compromise?

I think as long as you're using an interpreter, any performance that you
get back from improved cache behavior by reference counting will be lost
in the noise.  If you're serious about performance you really should be
thinking about a native-code compiler.  Only after that should you worry
much about the fine points of gc design.


From pascal.parent at free.fr  Thu Mar 25 04:44:33 2004
From: pascal.parent at free.fr (Pascal)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 01:44:33 -0800
Subject: Split a string by length
Message-ID: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>

Hello,
How can I do to simulate this way:
'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
I tried with a 'slice' but this didn't run:
[item for item in 'aabbcc'[::2]] -> ['a', 'b', 'c']
Thanks.


From michael at foord.net  Tue Mar 16 06:17:02 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 03:17:02 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<EWx5c.30346$zm5.12052@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403160317.4bc840de@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Bouillon <bouil at bouil.org.invalid> wrote in message news:<EWx5c.30346$zm5.12052 at nntpserver.swip.net>...
> Thank you both for your answer. They works well both very good.
> 
> First, i believe i doesn't work, because the error i've made is to 
> forgot the "u" for string : u"?". Because my file was already utf-8 
> encoded (# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-), i thinks the "u" is not necessary... 
> i was wrong.
> 
> Bye.

The 'utils1' package includes a file called charmap which is a
function to map to ascii....... Originally comes from a 'python
snippet' on sourceforge I believe....

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

Regards,


Fuzzy


From bogus at bogus.net  Thu Mar 18 14:47:55 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:47:55 GMT
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <L1n6c.7501$Mm2.6583@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Jason" <sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu> wrote in message
news:480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d at posting.google.com...
> Hey,
>
> I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
> implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
> (1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
> REALLY slow.
>
>  <code snipped>
>
Here's a couple of thoughts:

- Replace the implementation of WarpLine.length() from:
    return sqrt(pow(self.point2.x-self.point1.x, 2) +
pow(self.point2.y-self.point1.y, 2))
  to
    return math.hypot( (self.point2-self.point1).to_tuple() )

  If length() is called repeatedly for a given WarpLine, then cache this
value in an instance variable, and reset it if transformPoint is ever
called.

- Fire up the hotshot profiler.  It will tell you which functions really
need tuning.  Even though you've identified the "slow part", there are
several function calls made from this segment, any of which could be the
real hot spot.

- Look into using psyco.  It is *very* non-intrusive, and you may find you
can get some major speed-up.  The simplest way to get started, after
installing psyco is, at the top of your module, add:
    import pysco
    psyco.full()
psyco can get in the way of hotshot line profiling.  But you will still get
accurate counts and timing at a function call level.

- Your Point class does a lot of type checking when multiplying or dividing
by a constant.  Is this worth the penalty you are paying every time these
functions get called?  Oh, wait, I see that __mul__ may be multiplying by a
constant, or doing a dot product.  If hotshot tells you this is a choke
point, you might rethink using this one method for both functions.  Or at
least, reduce your type() calls by changing from:
        if type(other) == float or type(other) == int:
            return Point(self.x*other, self.y*other)
        else:
            return self.x*other.x + self.y*other.y
to:
        if isinstance(other, Point):
            return self.x*other.x + self.y*other.y
        else:
            return Point(self.x*other, self.y*other)

- If you are forced to comparing types instead of using isinstance, I think
'is' would be a bit better than '=='.

- Why does Point.to_tuple() return int's, although you use floats
throughout?  Since it looks like you have set up Point to be immutable, can
you keep both a float and an int member value for x and y, so you don't have
to do extra conversions?  Also, since WarpLine also appears to be immutable,
you should be able to cache diff and diff*diff (maybe call it diff2 or
diffSquared) - either initialize in the __init__ method, or compute lazily
when needed.

- Experience in other languages sometimes gets in your way when using
Python.  Not sure if this has any performance impact, but
Picture.in_bounds() can be made more Pythonic, as (also, double check use of
'<' vs '<='):

    def in_bounds(self,pt):
         return (0 <= pt.x <= self.data.size[0] and 0 <= pt.y <=
self.data.size[1])

- Another thing to get used to in Python that is unlike other languages is
the return of ordered pairs of values.  Look at this code:
                xy = line1.transformPoint(line2, Point(x,y)).to_tuple()

                if self.in_bounds(Point(xy[0], xy[1])):
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = src[xy[0] +
xy[1]*self.data.size[0]]
                else:
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = 0

You return a tuple, lets call it (transx, transy), representing the
transformed point, then create a new Point using the separate elements to
test for in_bounds-ness, and then access the individual pieces using [0] and
[1] accesses.  Function calls are performance killers in Python, so avoid
them where possible.  Try this instead:
                transPt = line1.transformPoint(line2, Point(x,y))
                transx, transy = transPt.to_tuple()  # or even     transx,
transy = transPt.x, transPt.y

                if self.in_bounds(transPt):
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = src[transx +
transy*self.data.size[0]]
                else:
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = 0

- You also reference self.data.size[0] *many* times, even though this is
invariant across all your nested loops.  Store this in a local variable
before you start your outer for loop, call it something like "xsize".  Then
replace every use of "self.data.size[0]" with "xsize".  As an added bonus,
your code will start getting more readable.

- Your arithmetic operators can generate *lots* of temporary Point objects.
You can streamline some of this process by defining a __slots__ attribute at
the class level, listing the field names "x" and "y".  This will keep Python
from allocating a dictionary for all possible attribute names and values for
every Point object created.  Likewise for WarpLine.

HTH,
-- Paul




From "daniel\" at (none)  Thu Mar 11 08:07:40 2004
From: "daniel\" at (none) (@(none))
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:07:40 +0100
Subject: Python database
Message-ID: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>


Facts:

(1) I don't know anything about data bases

(2) I don't have much time to learn about them (but I do have SOME time)

(3) I need to store (and retrieve) thousands of pages for a wiki, and 
need to be able to perform simple searches in the data base (but nothing 
else)

(4) I want to have open source free of charge programs

Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? As far as I 
have understood there is no standard data base in Python. Why is this 
so? Do people have too different needs?

      / Any help is much appreciated!



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Mar 26 10:05:49 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:05:49 -0600
Subject: Gtk / pyGtk: How to remove the close button at the top right
 corner of the dialog window?
In-Reply-To: <eb02dbae.0403260634.279ba837@posting.google.com>
	(ahk@writeme.com's message of "26 Mar 2004 06:34:06 -0800")
References: <eb02dbae.0403260634.279ba837@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2y8pnps1e.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "ahk" == ahk  <ahk at writeme.com> writes:

    ahk> As subject. TIA.  --
    ahk> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


You can override the functionality of that button by connecting your
window or dialog to the delete event.  Eg, if you want to hide the
window (but not close/destroy it), you can do

        def hide(*args):
            window.hide()
            return gtk.TRUE
        window.connect('delete_event', hide)


Or you can force your window to simply ignore users clicking on that
button by doing

        def ignore(*args):  # do nothing        
            return gtk.TRUE
        window.connect('delete_event', ignore)

See http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq10.006.htp

JDH



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 15:15:56 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:15:56 -0800
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <c2kmis$1v97u9$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2jpre$hlu$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c2kmis$1v97u9$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c2l8r9$9c9$2@news.service.uci.edu>

>   I've been using PyPE for a few weeks
>   and find it to be  VERY  usable 
>   for editing Python code ....
> 
>   The included class browser is especially nice .... 
> 
>   Thanks for providing this program ....

My pleasure.

  - Josiah


From chenet.carl at free.fr  Fri Mar 19 11:39:32 2004
From: chenet.carl at free.fr (chaica)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:39:32 +0100
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
References: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.19.16.39.25.337521@free.fr>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:21:09 -0800, Fuzzyman wrote:

> I'm writing a song lyric database (effectively to drive a projector -
> so the database contains the full song lyrics).
> 
> I'm using a nice simple Python database called KirbyBase which uses
> regular expressions to search.
> 
> A simple search for a phrase I can handle - I think I can even build a
> regular expression that ignores punctuation :-) - but I'm struggling
> with implementing an expression that will find several words
> independently (i.e. a basic 'search engine').
> 
> What I'd like is a reg. exp. that will match if a field contains word
> 1 *and* word 2 *and* word 3...... (for example) - but in no particular
> order......
> 
> Can anyone offer any clues (ideally without me having to index every
> song seperately from the database - which would kind of defeat the
> object)...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzyman


To realize and test your regexs, use kodos. Very good python regex
debugger.
http://kodos.sourceforge.net/

Regards,


From steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 14 12:18:00 2004
From: steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (DilbertFan)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:18:00 GMT
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ct05c.10019$V26.2708@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Do what you love and the money will follow. It works.   Don't worry about
jobs.
Read something on metaphysics that talks about how abundance flows to you
when you simply engage in something that is fun and allows the kid in you,
or the Spirit in you, or whatever, to play and to create great stuff.

If you give yourself to other through your talent,  (and the more you enjoy
what you're doing, the more value you're giving to everyone who makes use of
your creation), the more value comes right back to you.
If you don't like the spiritual angle here, than read Quantum Physics about
how we create our reality through intentions and thoughts, like The
Holographic Universe by Talbot.  If you're 'buzzing' through the joy of
engaging in your passion, you may naturally attract abundance by other
completely unrelated means if doesn't come through programming, or it may
come directly from this area.

Closer to home, read what Bruce Eckel wrote about Doing what you love:
http://mindview.net/WebLog/log-0037

"kbass" <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059 at fe3.columbus.rr.com...
> I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job market looks
> for programming using Python. I really don't see many jobs (probably one
or
> two) that require Python experience at all. Most DBA and SA positions that
I
> have seen require Perl and most development position require Java or C++
so
> how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little to no chance
> that an employer will require the use of Python or consider using Python
> over other programming languages such as Java?
>
> kbass
>
>




From blthecat at ckdog.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 16:59:39 2004
From: blthecat at ckdog.co.uk (Geoff Berrow)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:59:39 +0000
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
	<du7wu60ra10.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403042353.1b15f8ce@posting.google.com>
	<c2g3gb$1sb5fo$1@ID-97660.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <np6n40ha3m7s42ud2chrqc38f0gqs30jr5@4ax.com>

I noticed that Message-ID: <c2g3gb$1sb5fo$1 at ID-97660.news.uni-berlin.de>
from Brandon Blackmoor contained the following:

>>    HTH. HAND.
>
>Is this your signature or nickname, or does it perhaps mean something in 
>your native language (like "ciao", for example)?

Hope This Helps. Have A Nice Day

-- 
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/


From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Wed Mar 17 02:18:36 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:18:36 +0100
Subject: wxPython "Frames within Frames"
References: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>
	<YsqdnZQFKckH9crdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4057f8e2$0$11926$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>

> > I would like to build an app consisting of a "root" frame that can
> > contain an arbitrary number of child frames (the user will click to
> > create them).  Each of these child frames needs the full functionality
> > of a frame (title,menu,status bars, min,max,close icons, scroll bars,
> > sizing, moving).  In addition, the user must be able to create
> > grandchild frames within these child frames, to an arbitrary depth (in
> > practice limited to 10 or so).

> I'm afraid I can't help with the task as described, but I wanted to draw
> your attention to the fact that many people consider MDI to be 'evil',
> and it occurs to me that a massively nested MDI could only magnify the
> problems many times over.

Sure,

We are just on our way to review the UI of an application that relies
heavily on MDI (very good feedback from programmers and
"power users",  dummies are still uneasy after years).

Wxpython offers support for "sash windowing". We are currently
investigating the wxMultiSash and wxDynamicSashWindow
concepts. Multiple views without the usability cost of MDI.
Maybe not the panacea but possibly something to check
before diving into MDI.

- MS is dropping it from its own product line,
- the MDI concept is native on win* platforms only.

Except possibly for sophisticated WIN32-only
document-edition tools, is it the time to start up
new MDI applications ?

Francois











From stuart.b at commonground.com.au  Tue Mar 23 20:08:10 2004
From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:08:10 +1100
Subject: Abstraction library for Authentication (module like PEAR Auth)
In-Reply-To: <899f842.0403230824.4a4ba0ab@posting.google.com>
References: <899f842.0403230824.4a4ba0ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <B7E1C99D-7D2F-11D8-A2AB-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 24/03/2004, at 3:24 AM, Anthony_Barker wrote:

> Are there any modules for python that provide abstraction for 
> authentication?
>
> Pear Auth supports
>
> POP3
> LDAP
> SOAP
> passwd file
> SAMBA
> IMAP
> RADIUS
> http://pear.php.net/manual/en/packages.auth.php

If you mean web authentication (which seems to be the scope of Pear),
you would be best off asking in forums specific for the libraries you
are using (Zope, Albatross, Quixote, mod_python, Webware etc.). For
example, a tool such as exUserFolder (which has its own mailing list)
for Zope has a similar scope.

If you don't mean login via form web authentication, I don't see
much point - its just a call to an authenticate(username, password)
method for the protocols you mention. And if you introduce other
protocols such as Kerberos, Passport, biometric, or challenge
response schemes the abstraction would become too complex to be
generally useful.

- --  
Stuart Bishop <stuart at stuartbishop.net>
http://www.stuartbishop.net/
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HgpGOm8NFpUsugYY+TT8wnc=
=Vywl
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From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar  4 03:20:55 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:20:55 +0100
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
	<c268rn$1q8l0e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4046e6d6$0$4677$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


btw please give your opinion on this one :

def build(l, n):
 result = []
 if n == 1:
  for e in l:
   result.append([e])
 else:
  subSet = build(l, n - 1)
  for n_uples in subSet:
   iLast = l.index(n_uples[-1])
   if iLast < len(l) - 1:
    for e in l[iLast + 1:]:
     tmp = n_uples + [e]
     result.append(tmp)
 return result

def allSets(l):
 """from [1,2,3] will build [[1], [2], [3], [1, 2], [1, 3], [2, 3], [1, 2,
3]]"""
 result = []
 for i in range(1, len(l)):
  result += build(l, i)
 result.append(l)
 return result

def do_it(l):
 r = range(1,len(l))
 result = []
 for x in allSets(r):
  tmp = []
  for i in range(len(l)):
   if i in x:
    tmp.append('-')
   tmp.append(l[i])
  result.append(tmp)
 return result

>>> do_it(l)
[['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'], ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'], ['a', 'b', 'c', '-',
'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a',
'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd']]

best




From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Thu Mar 18 14:37:07 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 11:37:07 -0800
Subject: Unicode and UrlEncode!
References: <ba129ce7.0403171512.8a276d4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.108.1079566851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3apn2$9rn$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0403181137.150fa41d@posting.google.com>

Thanks a bunch. It works.

"Michel Claveau/Hamster" <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> wrote in message news:<c3apn2$9rn$1 at news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>...
> OK
> 
> ?a marche avec :
> 
> 
> sret=translate_french_to_english('s?dimentation'.decode("latin-1").encode("u
> tf-8"))
> et aussi pour :
> 
> sret=translate_french_to_english('s?dimentation'.decode("latin-1").encode("u
> tf-8"))
> 
> 
> Merci pour lui.  (thanks).
> 
> 
> 
> @-salutation


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar 11 15:57:12 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:57:12 +0100
Subject: subclassing list and adding other variables ?
References: <4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4050d296$0$294$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"GrelEns" <grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr> a ?crit dans le message de news:
4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> hello,
>
> i wonder if this possible to subclass a list or a tuple and add more
> attributes ? also does someone have a link to how well define is own
> iterable object ?
>
> what i was expecting was something like :
>
> >>> t = Test('anAttributeValue', ['el1', 'el2'])
> >>> t.anAttribute
> 'anAttributeValue'
> >>> for x in t:
>        print x
> el1
> el2

i reply to myself, but still have questions ;)

so this one works :

>>> class Test(list):
 def __init__(self, a):
  self.a = a
 def load(self, alist):
  self.extend(alist)


>>> t = Test(4)
>>> t
[]
>>> t.load((1,2,3))
>>> t
[1, 2, 3]

what do you think of such a design ? is there some underlying flaw that i
should be aware of ?

(and about the tuple stuffs not working in my previous examples, i suppose
this is because a tuple is immutable and thus should not be modified after
creation)

thx




From wweston at att.net  Thu Mar 18 22:02:05 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:02:05 GMT
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5knh4.rft.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
	<slrnc5knh4.rft.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <Not6c.32026$Pa7.837604@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

John Slimick wrote:
> Well, thanks to some email and a fair amount of
> time with Mr Google, I found that I needed to
> update the Setup file. 
> 
> (Platform: RH 8.0)
> 
> Prior to this I installed ActiveTCL8.4 .
> 
> So I made what I thought were the appropriate
> changes to the "tkinter" section of Setup, I went up
> a level (to /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2),
> did a "make" and this is what I got:
> 
>    file libtk8.4.so does not exist
> 
> Well, when I do a locate, I find libtk8.4.so
> in
> 
>    /usr/local/ActionTcl/lib/libtk8.4.so
> 
> So I am caught with some kind of path problem.
> 
> Any ideas or suggestions?
> 
> (And thanks to all the respondents so far)
> 
> john slimick
> slimick at pitt.edu
> 
> ============================================================
> 
>>John Slimick wrote:
>>
>>>I want to do a little Tkinter in my 1 credit 
>>>python practicum, but I am having problems
>>>getting everything installed correctly.
>>>A sample of the problem is below:
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------- The python source, test.py ------------------
>>>from graphics import *
>>>
>>>def main():
>>>    win = GraphWin("My Circle", 100, 100)
>>>    c = Circle(Point(50,50), 10)
>>>    c.draw(win)
>>>
>>>main()
>>>
>>>----------- result of $python test.py --------------------------
>>>
>>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "test.py", line 1, in ?
>>>    from graphics import *
>>>  File "/home/slimick/cs198/graphics.py", line 85, in ?
>>>    import Tkinter
>>>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>>>    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
>>>  ImportError: No module named _tkinter
>>>
>>>------------result of $locate _tkinter ------------------------------
>>>
>>>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp
>>>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp.exp
>>>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Modules/_dummy_tkinter.c
>>>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Modules/_tkinter.c
>>>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PC/os2vacpp/_tkinter.def
>>>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PCbuild/_tkinter.dsp
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>I would appreciate any help on this.
>>>
>>>And, thanks in advance
>>>
>>>john slimick
>>>slimick at pitt,edu
>>>university of pittsburgh at bradford
>>
>>john,
>>    Go here:
>>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-September/181603.html
>>wes
>>

Did you follow the link in my last? I just went through
this problem and it worked for me.
wes



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 15:56:39 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 20:56:39 +0000
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
	<87k71wi3lq.fsf@pobox.com>
	<153fa67.0403081222.6f0f8ec7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <878yi9wxh4.fsf@pobox.com>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) writes:
[...]
> This is one thing that puzzles me. I don't write bug-free code - far
> from it - but I can't say I remember any significant times when I
> introduced code that broke earlier code. I follow the Firefox and
> Thunderbird open source projects and often hear about 'regressions' in
> the latest builds. This surprises me, as I just don't get this in my
> own work. I suppose the main difference is that my projects are an
> order of magnitude smaller and every line of code is written by
> myself.

That's certainly part of the explanation, but I suspect not all of it.
I think you're failing to notice regressions that you would find if
you had good, high quality, unit test coverage.

Mind you, the code that I've thoroughly applied unit testing to is
choc-a-bloc with obscure special cases, because it has to conform to
complicated internet standards, so it probably benefits more from unit
testing than other kinds of code.  Other people with more experience
in different areas report similar regressions, though.


John


From http  Mon Mar 22 05:35:11 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 02:35:11 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<tyfad296vjl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <7x1xnlgof4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> > > And when did syntactic beauty stop mattering?
> 
> Most importantly, the current style separates the unambiguous
> information that the method is a static or class method from the "def"
> which starts the method's definition, by far too much.

Oh, it's not that big a deal.  Anyway, look at the situation with
generator functions.  ;-)


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 20:48:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:48:06 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <he6f50tnrl8k3oq95omq8foo66ud5n92ss@4ax.com>
References: <6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
	<mailman.46.1079470395.742.python-list@python.org>
	<he6f50tnrl8k3oq95omq8foo66ud5n92ss@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16471.44630.921411.117104@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dave> Interesting.  I just ran a test comparing 10,000 calls to the
    Dave> original h23 above with 10,000 calls to h23a below.

    ...

    Dave> The results are very close:

    Dave>    time/loop (sec)    %
    Dave> Test 1: 6.48E-006   119.1 (class PZfuncs)
    Dave> Test 2: 6.88E-006   126.4 (module PZfuncs)
    Dave> Test 3: 5.44E-006   100.0 (z1, p1, etc  outside loop)

I'm not sure what these particular tests are measuring.  I can't tell which
are h23() calls and which are h23a() calls, but note that because h23() and
h23a() are actually quite simple, the time it takes to call them is going to
be a fair fraction of all calls.

For timing stuff like this I recommend you use timeit.py.  Most people here
are getting used to looking at its output.  Put something like:

    import PZfuncs
    h0 = PZfuncs.h0
    z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
    p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3

    def h23null(freq):
        pass

    def h23a(freq):
        s = complex(2*pi*freq)
        return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

    def h23b(freq):
        z = PZfuncs
        s = complex(2*pi*freq)
        return z.h0*(s-z.z1)*(s-z.z2)/((s-z.p1)*(s-z.p2)*(s-z.p3))

into h23.py then run timeit.py like:

    timeit.py -s "import h23 ; freq = NNN" "h23null(freq)"
    timeit.py -s "import h23 ; freq = NNN" "h23a(freq)"
    timeit.py -s "import h23 ; freq = NNN" "h23b(freq)"

Its output is straightforward and pretty immediately comparable across the
runs.  The h23null() run will give you some idea of the call overhead.  You
can, of course, dream up h23[cdefg]() variants as well.

Post code and results and we'll be happy to throw darts... :-)

Skip



From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 31 21:56:31 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:56:31 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403311324.32837704@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6mvgv.rga.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <69cbbef2.0403311324.32837704 at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
> Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
>> In article <69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
>> > # Library pseudocode
>> > 
>> > _fooRegistry = []
>> > 
>> > obj _Foo: # prototype object
>> >     # Foo's code goes here
>> > 
>> > def Foo(): # constructor function
>> >     newFoo = _Foo.copy()
>> >     _fooRegistry.append(newFoo)
>> >     return newFoo
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Dirt simple with not an ounce of class metaprogramming in sight.
>> 
>> Is Foo() the standard syntax for making a new _Foo object?  If this is a
>> new wrapper you just created, then it's no different than adding a
>> register() method - the user has to know that something different is
>> being done.
>> 
>> If Foo() is the standard syntax, and you're just overriding the
>> implementation here, does that get inherited?  If so, this missed the
>> condition that only some of the descendants should get added to the
>> registry.  If not - well, inheriting the constructor seems like the more
>> useful behaviour in general, so why not?
> 
> Don't think you've quite got the point of prototype-based OO yet.
> There's no real 'standard syntax' for making objects; nor is there any
> inheritance, classes, metaclasses, or instances. To create a new
> object from scratch, execute the code that defines it. Alternatively,
> duplicate an existing object.

There certainly is a standard syntax for making objects.  I need to know
how to "duplicate an existing object".  Is it "obj.dup()"?
"obj.clone()"?  "duplicate obj"?  Most probably, the language (or
standard library) defines one of these, and I expect most objects to be
duplicated in the same way.

If I want to duplicate an object and add it to a registry, I can
obviously say "obj2 = obj.dup(); registery.append(obj2)".  But if I were
designing a library defining objects of this type which were *always*
intended to be added the registry, it would be preferable for the
standard "obj.dup()" syntax to do this automatically as well, so the
user doesn't need to know about the extra registry step.

Whether it's "the point" of prototype-based OO or not, such hiding of
complexity is a valuable thing for the language to do.  If it turns out
that you just can't do this because it's not part of the philosophy,
then the philosophy is lacking.  (Unless you can give me an equivalent
procedure which is covered by the philosophy, and demonstrate that it's
just as good.)


In the example you gave, the way to make this object was "Foo()".
Because we're talking about several different languages here, which have
syntax which are mild variations on each other, it can be confusing to
tell what exactly a bit of posted code is referring to.  That's why I
asked (rhetorically) if "Foo()" was the standard way to create an
object.  I assume you're talking about Prothon, in which it *is*.  In
that case, my second question stands - how do you inherit the behaviour
of adding to the registry, without rewriting the "_fooRegistry.append()"
line for each cloned object?

Joe


From steve at ferg.org  Fri Mar  5 15:04:55 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 12:04:55 -0800
Subject: HTMLParser and write
References: <slrnc4gfpd.nbl.hendry@bogrund-17.cs.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0403051204.7a627689@posting.google.com>

You're right.  The example is REALLY feeble.  Maybe this will help:

"""HTMLParserDemoProgram
Use HTMLParser to read in an HTML file and write it out again.
This will put all tag and attribute names into lowercase.
"""

"""
REVISION HISTORY
2 2004-01-05 added handle_pi and improved attribute processing
"""

from HTMLParser import HTMLParser

class CustomizedParser(HTMLParser):

	def setOutfileName(self, argOutfileName):
		"""Remember the output file, so it is easy to write to it.
		"""
		self.OutfileName = argOutfileName
		self.Outfile     = open(self.OutfileName, "w")

	def closeOutfile(self):
		self.Outfile.close()

	def write(self, argString):
		self.Outfile.write(argString)

	def handle_starttag(self, argTag, argAttrs):
		""" argAttrs is a list of tuples.
		Each tuple is a pair of (attribute_name, attribute_value)
		"""
		attributes = "".join([' %s="%s"' % (key, value) for key, value in argAttrs])
		self.Outfile.write("<%s%s>" % (argTag, attributes))

	def handle_startendtag(self, argTag, argAttrs):
		""" argAttrs is a list of tuples.
		Each tuple is a pair of (attribute_name, attribute_value)
		"""
		attributes = "".join([' %s="%s"' % (key, value) for key, value in argAttrs])
		self.Outfile.write("<%s%s/>" % (argTag, attributes))


	def handle_endtag(self, argTag):
		self.write("</%s>" % argTag)

	def handle_data(self, argString):
		self.write(argString)

	def handle_charref(self, argString):
		self.write("&#%s;" % argString)

	def handle_entityref(self, argString):
		self.write("&%s;" % argString)

	def handle_comment(self, argString):
		self.write("<!--%s-->" % argString)

	def handle_decl(self, argString):
		self.write("<!%s>" % argString)
		
	def handle_pi(self, argString):
		# handle a processing instruction
		self.write("<?%s>" % argString)
		
def main(myInfileName, myOutfileName ):
	myInfile = open(myInfileName, "r")
	myParser = CustomizedParser()
	myParser.setOutfileName(myOutfileName)

	myParser.feed(myInfile.read())

	myInfile.close()
	myParser.closeOutfile()


def dq(s):
	"""Enclose a string argument in double quotes"""
	return '"'+ s + '"'

if __name__ == "__main__":
	print "Starting HTMLParserDemoProgram"
	main("c:\junk\slide01.html",  "c:\junk\slide01a.html")
	print "Ending   HTMLParserDemoProgram"


From listas at grahal.net  Sun Mar 21 11:21:54 2004
From: listas at grahal.net (Gustavo Rahal)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:21:54 -0300
Subject: Accessing MS-Access DB from Linux
Message-ID: <405DC122.8090409@grahal.net>

Hi

How can I access a MS-Access DB from a linux machine? I am doing a 
website that will be hosted on  Linux and has to access a Windows 
machine with the MS-Access DB.
I read about the PythonWin extensions and ADO but it seems like it only 
works on a windows machine... can I install this library on Linux?

I am new with python and a complete newbie with MS-Access.

I know it's a little OT but I have some MS-Access questions

according to this code:

>>> import win32com.client
        >>> conn = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
        >>> DSN = 'PROVIDER=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;DATA SOURCE=C:/MyDB.mdb;'
        >>> conn.Open(DSN)


The DB is a file... Is this the only way to use a MS-Access DB? Do I 
have to run MS-Access as a background service to access a DB?


Appreciate any help


Thanks
Gustavo




From theller at python.net  Mon Mar 22 11:38:18 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:38:18 +0100
Subject: Problem using py2exe
References: <c3n3g1$ba$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <n068deh1.fsf@python.net>

"Sarah Mount" <s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk> writes:

> Hi everyone.
>
> I'm trying to create an exe for a simple pygame app on Win XP.
> I think I've got the latest (python, py2exe, pygame) and my setup.py
> file looks like this:
>
> | from distutils.core import setup
> | import glob
> | import py2exe
> |
> | setup(name='pyDemo',
> |      windows=["pyDemo.py"],
> |      data_files=[("data",
> |                     ["images/sensor.png", "images/start.png"])]
> | )
>
> Simple, eh? Well, all runs well, except for the following error:
>
> | The following modules appear to be missing
> | ['AppKit', 'Foundation', 'objc']
>
> Since pyDemo doesn't use any of these libraries, I just ignored that.
>
> When I try to run pyDemo.exe, I get the following error report from
> the MS Visual C++ Runtime Library:
>
> | Runtime error!
> | Program: C:\mypath\pyDemo.exe
> | This application has requestion the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
> | Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>
> Eeek! I've no idea where to go from here, so if anyone can help that
> would be fantastic.

IIRC, pygame imports some of its modules from C code, and py2exe cannot
track these.  You should try to include some (or all) of the pygame
modules explicitely with the --includes command line option.  Or you
simply include the whole pygame package with '--packages pygame'.

HTH,

Thomas




From timh at zute.net  Sat Mar 27 21:03:32 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:03:32 +0800
Subject: python-ldap and Sun ONE Directory server
In-Reply-To: <106bj12a6vg0p33@corp.supernews.com>
References: <c42jdq$d5g$1@achot.icm.edu.pl>
	<106bj12a6vg0p33@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40663277@news.highway1.com.au>

I have built python ldap on Solaris 9 and used it to access
SunOne Directory Server, but I have to admit I built the
python-ldap client library against a dist of OpenLDAP first.

T




Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <c42jdq$d5g$1 at achot.icm.edu.pl>,
> Micha? Kurowski  <mkur at poczta.gazeta.pl> wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'd like to ask you whether anyone have built python-ldap against
>>Sun ONE Directory v5.2 on a Solaris 9.
>>
>>Seems developers do not support such config, but many places on the 
>>web suggest it *is* possible and I would be a major pitta if I had 
>>to kick out my Ldap server now ...
>>
>>I've got python-ldap-2.0.0pre20 and use gcc 3.3.1.  It complains 
>>"ldap_schema.h" cannot be found - and in fact Sun does not have any
>>include file of that name.
>>
>>I just hope it is actually possible ... 
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> At least one of us is confused, or at least misinterpreting.
> Briefly, LDAP is a client-server protocol.  I *think* your
> goal is to build applications with the python-ldap client
> library, and deploy them against a Sun ONE LDAP server.  In
> principal, you can use any correct LDAP client, no matter 
> how it was made, against any correct LDAP server.  How does
> that fit what you're doing?  
> 
> Are you not able to build *any* python-ldap client-side 
> library?  We can help with that.


From egusenet at verizon.net  Wed Mar 24 15:33:07 2004
From: egusenet at verizon.net (Eric)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 12:33:07 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc63985.3n2.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> (The crux of the flamewar is that Condorcet tends to elect
> "compromise candidates" who are few peoples' favourite but palatable to
> most, while IRV is more likely to elect people that are the first choice
> of a large block but hated by others.  Which is preferable is a matter
> of philosophy.)

A Condorcet method will, if one exists, elect the candidate (called a
Condorcet Winner) that would win in a two-way contest with every other
candidate. When a Condorcet Winner does not exist, there various
methods for finding the winner, but you may be surprised in how often
a Condorcet Winner appears in various ranked ballot datasets I've
collected.

IRV only guarantees that it's winner will defeat at least one of the
other candidates in a two-way contest.

I cannot see how IRV and a Condorcet method would differ should a
certain candidate receive a large block of first place votes. For if a
certain Candidate is the first choice of a large block, it has a
distinct advantage in both IRV and Condorcet over all the other
candidates, but will not necessarily be the winner in either.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 03:40:58 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:40:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to add pairs to a dict, typo corrected in this one. 
Message-ID: <20040312084058.72361.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry about the typo in the previous message.

I want to keep adding pairs my phone_book dict like
so:

phone_book={'jack':2313, 'john':3436}

And then each time when a new pair is created, for
example, 'tom':5678, I want to add it to the dict so
that the dict becomes 

phone_book={'jack':2313, 'john':3436, 'tom':5678}




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Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
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From mb at muenster.de  Wed Mar 24 16:49:44 2004
From: mb at muenster.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:49:44 GMT
Subject: paths: splitall(), relativepath()
Message-ID: <4061ff76.3773921@news.muenster.de>

I was looking for a function that returns the relative path to a file
when looking from a specified directory. Here's what seems to do the
job. 

Somebody discovers any pitfalls?

I could imagine it would be nice to have splitall() and relativepath()
funcionality somewhere in the standard library.

Have a nice day,

mb - Martin Bless


import os
import sys

def splitall(path):
    """Split a path into all of its parts.
    
    From: Python Cookbook, Credit: Trent Mick
    """
    allparts = []
    while 1:
        parts = os.path.split(path)
        if parts[0] == path:
            allparts.insert(0, parts[0])
            break
        elif parts[1] == path:
            allparts.insert(0, parts[1])
            break
        else:
            path = parts[0]
            allparts.insert(0, parts[1])
    return allparts

def relativepath(fromdir, tofile):
    """Find relative path from 'fromdir' to 'tofile'.

    An absolute path is returned if 'fromdir' and 'tofile'
    are on different drives. Martin Bless, 2004-03-22.
    """
    f1name = os.path.abspath(tofile)
    if os.path.splitdrive(f1name)[0]:
        hasdrive = True
    else:
        hasdrive = False
    f1basename = os.path.basename(tofile)
    f1dirname = os.path.dirname(f1name)
    f2dirname = os.path.abspath(fromdir)
    f1parts = splitall(f1dirname)
    f2parts = splitall(f2dirname)
    if hasdrive and (f1parts[0].lower() <> f2parts[0].lower()):
        "Return absolute path since we are on different drives."
        return f1name
    while f1parts and f2parts:
        if hasdrive:
            if f1parts[0].lower() <> f2parts[0].lower():
                break
        else:
            if f1parts[0] <> f2parts[0]:
                break
        del f1parts[0]
        del f2parts[0]
    result = ['..' for part in f2parts]
    result.extend(f1parts)
    result.append(f1basename)
    return os.sep.join(result)
        
if 1 and __name__=="__main__":
    "demonstrate relativepath(...)"
    tofile = "C:/py/docutils/stylesheets/default.css"
    fromdir = "c:/PY/some/demo/currentdir"
    print "fromdir.....: ", fromdir
    print "tofile......: ", tofile
    print "relativepath: ", relativepath(fromdir,tofile)
    r"""Should print:
fromdir.....:  c:/PY/some/demo/currentdir
tofile......:  C:/py/docutils/stylesheets/default.css
relativepath:  ..\..\..\docutils\stylesheets\default.css
    """
    print "Done."



From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 15 17:44:49 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:44:49 +0000
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <mailman.14.1079349000.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1079390688.37545.0@demeter.uk.clara.net>

In message <mailman.14.1079349000.12241.python-list at python.org>, Premshree
Pillai wrote:

> As long as you need only a particular image type
> ("gif"), this technique should be good

I understand that the OP also wants to handle jpegs which consist of
variable-sized header/data chunks so I recommend that he uses PIL.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar  3 23:25:19 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 23:25:19 -0500
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam at rose.localdomain.fake>,
Ben Finney  <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote:
>
>Python has introduced many students to the benefits of
>properly-implemented OOP.  It's good to know that you've got this strong
>start.

Gee, I must be *really* sick: it took me four tries before I stopped
reading this as "poorly-implemented OOP".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Tue Mar  2 12:29:54 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:29:54 GMT
Subject: image processing style (2D kernel) convolutions?
Message-ID: <2qieh1-gk2.ln1@jowls.lairds.org>

It appears that Numeric only supports 1D convolutions.  I need to
apply a 2D kernel such as
	0  1  0
	1 -4  1
	0  1  0
to an image.  Is there such a capability in Python/Numeric?  It
appears that numarray has convolve2d(), but I don't have it
available where I'm working.

(I could express the problem better but I have a feeling that
people who know the answer know exactly what I mean.  Tell me if
that's not true.)

Thank you.

--kyler


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 18 00:00:50 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:00:50 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
	<mailman.110.1079568584.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40592D02.C795B4F6@alcyone.com>

Dietrich Epp wrote:

> I guess I could write a patch... I suppose my complaint is that rich
> comparison with different types neither raises an error nor gives
> consistent results, and I expect either one or the other.  I'd be
> scared to write a patch that added a field to the type structure, and
> I'd be a bit ashamed to write a kludge patch.

The question here is what you think the goal of writing a patch would
be.  You're trying to modify behavior that is as-designed.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Come not between the dragon and his wrath.
    -- King Lear (Act I, Scene I)


From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Mon Mar  8 23:44:03 2004
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (seberino at spawar.navy.mil)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:44:03 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20040309044403.GA30769@spawar.navy.mil>

Jeff

Thanks.  What about sockets??  If we
hardwire child processes to have a fixed ip address
and port then I can communicate with a socket right?

Are sockets better or worse than your idea?  Why/Why not?

Chris

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:25:05PM -0600, Jeff Epler wrote:
> You can use os.pipe() to get a pair of fds, where data written to the
> second one can be read by the first one.  Untested code:
>     reader, writer = os.pipe()
>
>     pid1 = coroutine(('/bin/sh', '-c', 'some code1'), \
>                     reader, sys.stdout, sys.stderr)
>     pid2 = coroutine(('/bin/sh', '-c', 'some code2'), \
>                     sys.stdin, writer, sys.stderr)
>
> Use os.waitpid() to reap the child processes.
>
> All of this assumes Unix, of course.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Definitions of coroutine() and supporting code.  Moderately tested:
>
> dev_null = open("/dev/null", "rw")
> def F(x):
>     if x is None: return dev_null.fileno()
>     if not isinstance(x, int): return x.fileno()
>     return x
>
> def coroutine(args, child_stdin, child_stdout, child_stderr):
>     pid = os.fork()
>     if pid == 0:
>         os.dup2(F(child_stdin), 0)
>         os.dup2(F(child_stdout), 1)
>         os.dup2(F(child_stderr), 2)
>         for j in range(3, 255):
>             try: os.close(j)
>             except: pass
>         os.execvp(args[0], args)
>         print "execvp failed ?"
>         os._exit(99)
>     return pid
>
> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 06:27:33PM -0800, Christian Seberino wrote:
>

--
_______________________________________

Christian Seberino, Ph.D.
SPAWAR Systems Center San Diego
Code 2872
49258 Mills Street, Room 158
San Diego, CA 92152-5385
U.S.A.

Phone: (619) 553-9973
Fax  : (619) 553-6521
Email: seberino at spawar.navy.mil
_______________________________________



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 02:31:55 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:31:55 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<30985729.0403291959.2dafe546@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qn9ac.68925$cx5.22050@fed1read04>

> --Take advantage of iterators early on for return values to avoid
> things like having both dict.items() and dict.iteritems().

Interestiong idea.  Generators are fully supported so I could do this now.
So gens would have to be allowed absolutely everywhere lists are allowed (is
trhis possible?).  Or are you thinking the user should type
List(dict.items()) ?

> --Choose "{:}" syntax for empty dict creation to reserve "{}" for
> sets.  (Or: use "{}" for both, and do automatic "set-to-dict

Also cool.  Maybe <> for sets?  Prothon doesn't support <> as != so it is
free.

> --Functions that return multiple, but unique, values should return a
> set, not a list, to communicate same (ex: dict.keys(), dir(), etc.).

Also cool.

> --Dict should inherit from Set.

Also cool (I feel like the credits of Holy Grail saying Also wik).

> --No Dict.update(), since this is now identical with Set.__ior__()
> (i.e. d1 |= d2).
>

Cool.

... snipped ...

All cool.

> --With prothon's "immutability" bit and other considerations, does the
> language need both tuples AND lists?

I like this a lot.  Tuples are already implemented internally as lists.

... more good stuff snipped ...

> Off the cuff, but only two cents....

More like a few dollars.  This is really good stuff.  Can I talk you into
hanging out on the Prothon list now and then, at least until we get the core
language sorted out?


"Zipher" <average at moonman.com> wrote in message
news:30985729.0403291959.2dafe546 at posting.google.com...
> [Mark Hann]
> > Obviously Prothon is not Python compatible, so I have taken the liberty
of
> > implementing many changes that have been imagined for the almost
mythical
> > Python 3.0...
>
> Gee, my love of Python makes me feel a little guilty about looking at
> another language, but Prothon does look appealing.  Classes really do
> start looking archaic...  Would a threesome be out of the question?
>
> My Python3k suggestions for Prothon:
>
> --Take advantage of iterators early on for return values to avoid
> things like having both dict.items() and dict.iteritems().
> (Decorators add even larger possibilities for fresh syntax and other
> considerations.)
>
> --Choose "{:}" syntax for empty dict creation to reserve "{}" for
> sets.  (Or: use "{}" for both, and do automatic "set-to-dict
> promotion" upon encountering a (key, value) assignment.)
>
> --Functions that return multiple, but unique, values should return a
> set, not a list, to communicate same (ex: dict.keys(), dir(), etc.).
> (Consider iterator caveat above, however.)
>
> Such functions often have surprising uses for set operations anyway.
> Consider, for example, using set operations on dir() to answer
> questions like Which parent functions/variables get re-assigned in the
> child class? or What new fns/vars does this child add?
>
> --Dict should inherit from Set.
>
> --No Dict.update(), since this is now identical with Set.__ior__()
> (i.e. d1 |= d2).
>
> Could follow Python's behavior with regard to key collisions (a matter
> of contentious debate if I remember), OR perhaps even better:
>
> --Dict object could contain optional "collision function attribute"
> that is called to resolve values on key collisions.
>
> Consider, for example, an easy Bag(Dict) object with said attribute
> assigned to "operator.add" for the union method(s).  This would also
> maintain the >10x speed factor (in Python anyway) of using underlying
> C-implmentation rather that hand iteration through dicts.
>
> --With prothon's "immutability" bit and other considerations, does the
> language need both tuples AND lists?
>
> Also, perhaps this is an opportunity to address handling single vs.
> multiple element parameters.  That is, how to avoid things like both
> list.extend() and list.append() -- which one adds only a single
> element?  If the language had a way to indicate whether a parameter
> should be treated as an atom vs. a collection, it would reduce a lot
> of ambiguous (within an object) and inconsistent (across objects)
> method names and the unending debate that seems to occur each time.
>
> Perhaps Python's later enhancements (decorators?) could make this more
> natural, or maybe a new construct would be required...
>
> BTW, I vote in favor of character case being semantically meaningful.
> I like the language informing me (and enforcing) semantic meaning
> through syntax (much like Python's indention).  Ditto for bang-endings
> (ex. list.sorted!).
>
> Off the cuff, but only two cents....
>
> Zipher




From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Wed Mar 31 12:05:22 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:05:22 -0800
Subject: wxPython "Frames within Frames"
In-Reply-To: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>
References: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nTCac.684$JX6.379@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Simon Erikson wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> I would like to build an app consisting of a "root" frame that can
> contain an arbitrary number of child frames (the user will click to
> create them).  Each of these child frames needs the full functionality
> of a frame (title,menu,status bars, min,max,close icons, scroll bars,
> sizing, moving).  In addition, the user must be able to create
> grandchild frames within these child frames, to an arbitrary depth (in
> practice limited to 10 or so).
> 
> As I understand it, MDI provides the means of creating the root and
> first generation frames, but not the further generations.
> 
> I found this at 'http://www.orbtech.com/www/wx/epydoc/public/wx.Frame-class.htm'
> A frame is a window whose size and position can (usually) be changed
> by the user. It usually has thick borders and a title bar, and can
> optionally contain a menu bar, toolbar and status bar.
> A frame can contain any window that is not a frame or dialog.
> 
> Does this last sentence mean my quest is hopeless?  Can someone please
> help me?

If you are on windows then you can use the wxMDI* classes and get what 
you want.  Since GTK has nothing like that then MDI is emulated using a 
wxNotebook.  On OSX wxMDI is implemented using multiple top level 
document windows, since that is the standard on that platform.


-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From rlwm.erens at home.nl  Thu Mar  4 06:22:31 2004
From: rlwm.erens at home.nl (Roger)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 03:22:31 -0800
Subject: get notepad on windows to front via tcp-server SOLUTION: TweakUI
References: <mailman.17.1078218720.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5475062c.0403040322.247648a5@posting.google.com>

"Chetan Gadgil" <cgadgil_list at cxoindia.dnsalias.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.17.1078218720.12614.python-list at python.org>...
> > 
> > Using these methods from a python shell works as expected, 
> > but using a tcp-client/server construct gives me notepad in the rear.
> 
> That sounds painful. ;)
> 
> 
> Do you think that using an edit control is suitable for your purpose?
> i.e. if you can avoid using notepad, you can have much better control
> over your controls.
> 
> 

Thanks all for replying!

I have to explain that notepad was just an example of one of the many
applications that I want to start up on windows, but I didn't want to
clutter up my original posting too much.

I'm using python to prototype and if I find something working, try to
work out the equivalent C-code. Hence, I'm not keen of importing the
win32gui or win32process modules. (I guess that would involve a _lot_
of digging in their code to find the C-equivalent).

Luckily, I found on MS' website the TweakUI powertoy.
In the setting General--Focus I can disable the option that prevents
applications from stealing the focus.

For now, I don't care much for possible side effects of irritating
windows popping up as was mentioned in the '98-thread...

Regards,
Roger


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 03:38:30 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:38:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to add pairs to a dict?
Message-ID: <20040312083830.83728.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>

I want to keep adding pairs my phone_book dict like
so:

phone_book={'jack':2313, 'john':3436}

And then each time when a new pair is created, for
example, 'tom':5678, I want to add it to the dict so
that the dict becomes 

phone_book={'jack':2313, 'john':3436}



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From karthik at james.hut.fi  Wed Mar  3 07:01:16 2004
From: karthik at james.hut.fi (Karthikesh Raju)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:01:16 +0200
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
	<1qj1c.29893$qo.16145@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <2du116m96b.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>

Thankx paul, will have to download pyparsing, will do in a short will
and try your trick, hope it works well :-)

With warm regards

karthik
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karthikesh Raju,		    email: karthik at james.hut.fi		
Researcher,			    http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
Department of Computer Sc.,
P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
Espoo, FINLAND
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From CaptainN at altel.net  Sun Mar 28 21:16:40 2004
From: CaptainN at altel.net (CaptainN at altel.net)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:16:40 -0500
Subject: Does py2exe work with Tkinter?
Message-ID: <rHL9c.7383$ol3.34@fe03.usenetserver.com>

I've just started playing with py2exe and tried to create a distribution for
a slightly complex Tkinter program that refers to a class in another file.
I just try to create an .exe for the main Tkinter program but it's not
functional; setup says that it's missing SSL and some java classes which I
didn't know my program was using.

Anyone run across this before, or have any examples of a working
distribution?

Thanks,
CaptainN





From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  8 21:16:40 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:16:40 +1300
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0403081300.42e2d061@posting.google.com>
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
	<104nnqlq81dvj48@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403081300.42e2d061@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2j9ea$1ug17d$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Kylotan wrote:
> I don't have any complex functions that perform some important
> mutation of the object's state which can be verified as being correct
> at the end with minimal interaction with other objects. It just
> doesn't happen at the moment.

It sounds like you have a similar situation as I have
with Pyrex. The Pyrex compiler is made up of a large
number of parts which interact in very complex ways.
Each part on its own is fairly simple, and while it
*could* be tested on its own after a fashion, this
wouldn't really help much, because most of the
interesting things happen in the interactions between
the parts, rather than inside the parts themselves.

I haven't bothered doing unit testing in the conventional
sense with Pyrex. What I have instead is a large collection
of very small Pyrex files, each of which exercises some
feature of the Pyrex language. Running the test consists
of compiling the file and checking that the generated code
matches previously verified output.

In other words, my "unit tests" test units of functionality,
rather than units of code. I find them to be quite adequate --
anything that would be caught by a code-unit test will
also be caught by some functionality-unit test, and the
traceback usually makes it clear which piece of code is
at fault.

With regard to regression testing, I do find it to be
extremely important. It's the only thing that gives me
the confidence to add new features to Pyrex, or to
reorganise the implementation of existing features,
without fear of ending up with a hopelessly broken
mess. Which I'm *certain* would have happened to Pyrex
long before now if I hadn't had automatic testing.

Your system may be small and simple enough so far that
you haven't experienced any breakage problems, but things
may not stay that way.  So I urge you to make your tests
automatable if at all possible, even if you don't feel you
need it at the moment. Chances are you'll thank yourself for
it later.

In summary: I don't think it's necessary to be too dogmatic
about what exactly constitutes a "unit test". What I do think
is important: (a) Build up a test suite that exercises as much
of the system's functionality as possible. (b) Automate the
testing process as much as possible and run the tests
frequently.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From timr at probo.com  Thu Mar  4 03:00:36 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:00:36 -0800
Subject: Odd cgi.FieldStorage behavior
References: <bcfdd93d.0403020847.4e8957db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1fnd40tkjinnu87uj3k00mtkp14u29hmc3@4ax.com>

vxg49 at yahoo.com (Fred Murray) wrote:
>
>When uploading a file ("input type=file"), FieldStorage usually
>behaves correctly, but every once in a while (every couple days?), it
>will suddenly start causing internal server errors.  A look at the
>apache (v. 2.0.44 on Linux) error log shows "premature end of script
>headers" with no error messages from Python.  After reloading the
>browser about 10 times in a row, it will suddenly start working again.
> Recently, when a series of these errors was occuring, I removed the
>FieldStorage line from my program and it completed normally.  When I
>put the line back in again, the internal server errors resumed.  Thus,
>it seems that the bug is either in FieldStorage itself or in something
>FieldStorage interacts with.
>
>It seems odd that that there are no errors in the log from Python. 
>Does this mean the program is crashing before it can output a
>traceback to stderr?

It often means the script terminated normally without outputting any HTML,
or that you caught an error with a try/finally and didn't reraise the
error.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From adam_gautier at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 11:02:57 2004
From: adam_gautier at yahoo.com (Adam T. Gautier)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:02:57 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
Message-ID: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>

OK, First off I am new to Python but I am a convert.  I sat down and 
wrote two medium complexity applications in Python from scratch and 
learning the language in a few days.  If I were to do this in C++ and/or 
Java it would have taken atleast a month (Rember I was also learning the 
Python language).  But, I am sick of the documentation!  I don't really 
use too many Java example applications when I am writing in Java because 
(1.) I have been writting in Java since it was called Oak and 2.) I have 
the JavaDocs that give me a good grounding as to what the 
package/class/function/const is doing).  Is there anythin comperable for 
Python?  It is a shame that the only limitation of a great is 
documentation.  Is there a project that is trying to do this? Am I 
completely off my rocker? Is the Tutorial and Module documentation on 
python.org enough?  What would it take to develop an JavaDoc like 
repository.  I don't know much about the PyPI but is a requirement 
documentation?  What I think would be cool is a PyPI wiki that is 
dedicated to to documentation.  When a module is submitted it is sent 
through a dog auto-gen that generates wiki pages.  The wiki pages would 
be a reference page(s) (think javadoc), an example code page(s), and a 
tutorial thread page(s).  Just the refrence page would be auto generated 
and the example and tutorial page(s) could be created by the developer 
and/or the community in very wiki like style.  What do y'all think?



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 04:26:14 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:26:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Concatenating numerical and string attributes
Message-ID: <20040312092614.97979.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,
I have these attributes:

index[i]
which is a numerical value value

vector[i]
which is a numerical float value

and I want to concatenate like this:

featurevector = string(1)+ " " + string(index[i]) +
":" +string(vector[i])
However, when I run my program I get this error:

$Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "try.py", line 70, in ?
    featurevector=string(index[i])+string(vector[i])
TypeError: 'module' object is not callable


What I have to do is this:

I have to write this feature vector which occurs in
computation of some loop to a file. The file has to be
in append more since I have to separate various
feature vectors by space.

For example the I have to write like this:

1 10:0.2304 20:0.2804 30:0.567 

I have these values 10:0.2304, 20:0.2804, 30:0.567
coming from a loop where I compute index them as
index, value pair. i.e. the tuple is index[i],
vector[i].
I was trying to do this by concatenating 1 and then
subsequent strings. However, I have this error.


Can some one point me how to do this, though seems to
be simple, but I am ignorant. Note that I need to
write 1 only once, in the starting.


Thanks A Ton to this list,
Dont

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Mar  4 15:18:15 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:18:15 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>
Message-ID: <c282u7$qr1$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregor Lingl" <glingl at aon.at>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:43 PM
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail


> "Quality of design" may - for instance - consist
> in deleting 7 characters:
>
> Today I made - by accident - an interesting
> observation. The following is a snippet from
> a program which computes anagrams from a wordlist:
>
> def find_anagrams(wordlist):
>      d = {}
>      for word in wordlist:
> sig = anagram_signature(word)
> if sig not in d:
>              d[sig] = []     # d.setdefault intentionally not used
>      return d
>
> On my machine it computes d
> for a wordlist of 10000 items in less than 0.13s
> and for a wordlist of 20000 items in less than 0.25s
>
> Today one of my students inadvertedly wrote in the fifth line
>
>          if sig not in d.keys():
>
> and now timing of find_anagrams had the following results:
>
> for a wordlist of 10000 items approx. 9.33s, i.e a factor
> of approx 65 slower
>
> and for a wordlist of 20000 items approx. 60s, i.e. a factor
> of approx 250 slower. (!!!) (Imagine that the full wordlist
> in this example has 45000 entires, so an additional factor of
> 16 applies ...)
>
> I think this is a very astonishing and relevant difference!
> I think I understand why it is the case - the timing factor
> is proportional to the square of len(wordlist), because
> in every loop a list d.keys() has to be computed and now
> this has to be used for searching for the key sig,
> while for sig in d uses some built-in generator-property
> of dictionaries ...  (?)
>
> *on_the_other_ hand* I thought, that those two idioms
> are semantically identical.

Nope. They are not. "if sig not in d" equates to "not d.has_key(sig)"
("O(1)" in terms of performance)
And d.keys() makes a copy of d's entire list of keys (giving you "O(N)").

You might also consider using:

try:
   d[sig]
except KeyError:
   d[sig]=[]

HTH,

Vincent Wehren

So my question: why does the
> Python interpreter not recognize this identity and internally
> replace the latter by the first in order to get *much*
> better performance? >
> - would this lead to wrong results in some cases?
> - or would it be too difficult to implement?
> - or is this considered a problem of minor importance?
> - or was it only forgotten to do?
> - or what else?


> Regards,
> Gregor
>
> P.S.: Or was the key in dict idiom introduced exactly
> inorder to solve this problem?




From osbhella at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 16:48:06 2004
From: osbhella at yahoo.com (Opinder)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 13:48:06 -0800
Subject: Using the __builtins__ module to assign new global variables
Message-ID: <7c160399.0403011348.779cc5c8@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

For the Python experts out there:

Are there any side effects in assigning new variables to the
__builtins__ module for the purpose of exposing variables to imported
modules.

For example.

#/ main file

class Test: pass

mytest = Test()  #/ instance of a class
__builtins__.mytest = mytest

import abc


#/ -----------------------
#/ This is the abc.py module file
#/ This should work because of the __builtins__ above
print mytest 

Thanks.


From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Mon Mar  1 03:02:44 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:02:44 +0100
Subject: KinterBasDB problems  in Linux
Message-ID: <1431636483.20040301090244@anonym.hu>

Hello !

I have a problem.
I create my projects in Windows, and I write a database synchronizing
utility for copy a gdb changes to another gdb. Some of these products
is need to run in linux.

I'm very tired, because I download (apt-get install
python2.3-kinterbasedb) the module, what working good in Windows, but
in linux I get this message when I try to start my script:

bha:/kepes# ./syncmdb2teldb.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./syncmdb2teldb.py", line 2, in ?
    import kinterbasdb
  File "/home/fixshare/kepes/kinterbasdb/__init__.py", line 41, in ?
    import _kinterbasdb as _k
ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb
bha:/kepes#


The test file is:
File: syncmdb2teldb.py  Col 0              321 bytes                        100%
#!/usr/bin/python
import kinterbasdb

import sys
# Base datas

srcdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/teldata.gdb',us
er='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
desdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/mpanni.gdb',use
r='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
print "ok"

1Help   2UnWrap 3Quit   4Hex    5Line   6RxSrch 7Search 8Raw    9Unform 10Quit

In the package dir:

bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb# ls -l
total 152
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        29691 Jul 19  2002 __init__.py
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyo
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        56072 Sep 28 16:32 _kinterbasdb.so
bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb#


What I do wrong, or what is it ????
(The Zope with Kinterbasdb is working good in this linux, so no
connection problem...)

thanx for every help !

-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                          mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu




From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Thu Mar  4 03:21:10 2004
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 00:21:10 -0800
Subject: Jython Debugger?
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<3b091a1c.0403030152.68ecc055@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.9.1078317201.727.python-list@python.org>
	<5wm1c.7283$Wo2.2455@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0403040021.1936eea@posting.google.com>

I have very much the same answer. Personally I'm satisfied
with emacs and pdbtrack, but I was asked for a solution
not based on emacs, i.e. based on ddd or insight or the like.

Carl

max khesin <max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com> wrote in message news:<5wm1c.7283$Wo2.2455 at twister.nyc.rr.com>...
> (Un) fortunately the new folk (me) have not fallen for emacs (yet).
> 
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
> >     Carl> I'm still looking for a real graphically debugger though.
> > 
> > What visual features do you want that an X/Emacs+gdb+python-mode+pdbtrack
> > can't give you?
> > 
> > Skip
> >


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 20:13:28 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:13:28 -0600
Subject: Python & the job market
In-Reply-To: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <16467.45496.356599.481075@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    kbass> I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job
    kbass> market looks for programming using Python. 

Better than a year ago.  I don't know what it is in overall numbers, but
it definitely seems to be growing.

    kbass> I really don't see many jobs (probably one or two) that require
    kbass> Python experience at all. 

Have you checked out

    http://www.python.org/Jobs.html

and the job sites it refers to?

    kbass> Most DBA and SA positions that I have seen require Perl and most
    kbass> development position require Java or C++ ...

This is not surprising.  These languages all have larger installed bases
than Python.

    kbass> ... so how can learning Python benefit my career if there are
    kbass> little to no chance that an employer will require the use of
    kbass> Python or consider using Python over other programming languages
    kbass> such as Java?

A fair number of us have figured out ways to do that.  Here are some
suggestions:

    * Get a job which is nominally not a programming position (say, sys
      admin).  For the little bits and pieces you wind up writing to do your
      job better use Python, then make them available to your fellow sys
      admins.

    * Infiltrate a job for which another programming language is "required".
      Then start looking here 

        http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonAdvocacy

      for ways to convince your colleagues that Python might be a better
      choice for some things.

    * Hang out your shingle as an independent consultant.

    * Got some good ideas and some good skills?  Check out Mark
      Shuttleworth's bounties page:

        http://www.markshuttleworth.com/bounty.html

You have to be a bit more patient and creative, but it's definitely
possible.

Skip




From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Thu Mar 25 01:19:52 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:19:52 +1100
Subject: creating lists question?
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>	<bp48c.1529$0_1.159@news.cpqcorp.net>	<4060F4E4.1090006@yahoo.com.au>
	<mailman.330.1080125481.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40627A08.3020907@yahoo.com.au>

Gandalf wrote:

> The * operator applied to a tuple will create another tuple consisting 
> of the same objects but many times. For example,
> (2,3,) *3 
> will create (2,3,2,3,2,3)
> 
> However, if you do this:
> 
> (obj,)*3
> 
> then you will get
> 
> (obj,obj,obj,)
> 
> You will get references to the the same object.  :-)

Which leads me to this nifty method:

a,b,c,d = map(lambda L: L[:], [[]]*4)

Or as a list comprehension:

a,b,c,d = [L[:] for L in [[]]*4]

It works, but it is moderately cryptic and relies on 
the programmer knowing the names of all the variables 
at write-time.

-- 
Steven D'Aprano




From sc0rp at hot.pl  Thu Mar 25 02:17:50 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:17:50 +0100
Subject: Mod_python
References: <qDp8c.41418$Bg.9880@fed1read03> <m3v8c.42177$Bg.17925@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <4062879E.C1E5E252@hot.pl>


Amy G wrote:
> So I can now restart apache and everything seems to work.  Except my python
> files still show up as text in the browser window.
>
> I am using Apache 1.3.7.
> I downloaded both mod_pyton-2.7.10 and 2.7.9.

Below is configuraton that does work with Apache 2.0.49 and mod_python
3.0.3.  Maybe it will work with older version as well.

Make sure that similar entires are in http.conf (paths on your system
may be different):
-----
LoadModule python_module  libexec/apache2/mod_python.so

DocumentRoot "/usr/local/www/data"

<Directory "/usr/local/www/data">
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all 
    SetHandler python-program
    PythonHandler Handlers
    PythonDebug On
</Directory> 
-----

Place your script as:
/usr/local/www/data/Handlers.py

Something like this should work:

      from mod_python import apache

      def handler(req):

          req.content_type = "text/plain"
          req.write("Hello World!")

          return apache.OK

Best regards,
Jacek.




From sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr  Mon Mar 29 04:42:14 2004
From: sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:42:14 +0200
Subject: finding used modules
References: <4067e4fa$0$270$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.29.09.42.14.107788@nospam.logilab.fr>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:57:44 +0200, Guyon Mor?e wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm developing an application with Delphi+Python. Distributing such an
> application requires me to include all the used modules + python23.dll.
> 
> At the moment I'm using 'trial-and-error' on a pc without python on it to
> see which modules it is missing.
> 
> What I'm asking is: Is there any tool/module which can help me in this
> process?

Pylint [1] does external dependencies analysis, ie it gives you a list of
imported modules which are not parts of the python standard library.
A quick hack could make it include all imported modules.

[1] http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 22:03:37 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:03:37 -0800
Subject: wxDirDialog
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0403160803.5bb76b86@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07@posting.google.com>
	<c35la1$sdi$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b0457a31.0403160803.5bb76b86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3b3nv$ddo$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> What i meant is that i can select a file over the network but i need
> to select the computer name only  e.g. homepc, fileserver, etc over 
> the network.
> 
> DO i need to use python win32 API?

Checking the wxPython demo, trying to select a computer from the 
"Network Neighborhood" or "My Network Places/Computers Near Me" using 
the wxDirDialog produces the following error:

Debug: e:\Projects\wx2.4\src\msw\dirdlg.cpp(161): 'SHGetPathFromIDList' 
failed with error 0x00000000 (the operation completed successfully.).

It doesn't look like you can overtly select computers from a standard 
dialog.

However, you can:

import os
a = os.popen('net view')
data = a.read()
a.close()
computers = [line.split('\\')[2] for line in data.split('\n')]

And get a list of computer names.

  - Josiah


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 17 12:52:40 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:52:40 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
	<mailman.46.1079470395.742.python-list@python.org>
	<he6f50tnrl8k3oq95omq8foo66ud5n92ss@4ax.com>
	<mailman.63.1079488094.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <262h5092mnn4v66s2fut2pj9ks9o487io1@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:48:06 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>For timing stuff like this I recommend you use timeit.py.  Most people here
>are getting used to looking at its output.

Excellent utility.  This ought to be highlighted in the docs on the
time module, at least listed under "See also".  I just grabbed the
first thing that came up and wrote my own little routine around the
clock() function.

[...]
>Post code and results and we'll be happy to throw darts... :-)

# PZfuncs.py  --  Timing test for reloaded constants.

# Local constants:
h0 = 1
z1 = 1; z2 = 1
p1 = -1 +1j; p2 = -1 -1j; p3 = -1
pi = 3.1415926535897931

import Constants

def h23null(freq):
    pass

def h23a(freq):
    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

def h23b(freq):
    z = Constants
    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    return z.h0*(s-z.z1)*(s-z.z2)/((s-z.p1)*(s-z.p2)*(s-z.p3))

def h23c(freq):
    h0 = Constants.h0
    z1 = Constants.z1; z2 = Constants.z2
    p1 = Constants.p1; p2 = Constants.p2; p3 = Constants.p3
    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

% timeit.py -s "from PZfuncs import * ; freq = 2.0" "h23null(freq)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.461 usec per loop
% timeit.py -s "from PZfuncs import * ; freq = 2.0" "h23a(freq)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 4.94 usec per loop
% timeit.py -s "from PZfuncs import * ; freq = 2.0" "h23b(freq)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 5.79 usec per loop
% timeit.py -s "from PZfuncs import * ; freq = 2.0" "h23c(freq)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.29 usec per loop

My conclusion is that I should stick with form c in my application.
The savings from moving these assignments outside the function (form
a) does not justify the cost in possible problems after a reload.  The
savings in going to form b is negligible.  Form a is the easiest to
read, but forms b and c are not much worse.

These functions will typically be used in the interactive part of the
program to set up plots with a few hundred points.  The time-consuming
computations are all done in the simulator, which is written in C++.

-- Dave



From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Mar 23 03:39:19 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:39:19 GMT
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>, Joe Mason wrote:
> Not a big fan of that syntax - I have to keep the parameter names and
> types in sync by counting.
> 
>     def foo(x [accepts(int)], y [accepts(float)]) [returns(int)]:
> 
> is a little better, except now we're getting very verbose.
> 
> For decorators in general, I like
> 
>     def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:
>     
> You get an explicit list syntax, but it's set off by a keyword so they don't
> run together to the eye.  Because the keyword keeps it unambiguous, you
> could even allow a tuple instead of a list: "def foo() as (x, y, z)".
> 
> So I definitely favour a keyword, but perhaps "as" is to generic.  What
> about "has" or "with"?

Come to think of it, the verbose example with "has" becomes (assuming a
shorter decorator name):

    def foo(x has sig(int), y has sig(float)) has returns(int):

Since you might not need the full list syntax for a single decorator.
That's not too bad looking.

(No, I'm not seriously proposing decorators on parameters at this point.)

Joe


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Mar  3 17:00:55 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:00:55 -0800
Subject: Ast tree and python code
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E5A@opus.amorhq.net>

Yermat wrote:
> Does someone know how I can reverse an AST tree back into python code 
> with few modification ?
> What I want to do is to complete trees before writing them 
> back but in a 
> way not to far from the original code ? Especially, indentation, line 
> return, etc.
> 
> Of course, I could program it myself but if someone already done it...

I don't know of a full implementation (someone else might?) but I made a
start of it a week ago:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=mailman.219.1077
918544.8594.python-list%40python.org

Deriver.process() (inherited from Processor.process()) produces Python
statements from an AST node; it's only simple expressions at the
moment--no assignment, for example. Feel free to build on it.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From p2esp at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 09:35:47 2004
From: p2esp at yahoo.com (p2esp)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:35:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xmlrpclib timeouts 
Message-ID: <20040302143547.62300.qmail@web61010.mail.yahoo.com>

>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm using the xmlrpclib module to contact an XMLRPC
>> server that takes a long time to send results back.
My
>> client timeouts.
>>
>> The question is whether there is a way to have an
>> xmlrpclib client that never timeouts. I have been
>> searching for some code examples on how to do that,
>> but I could not find any in the xmlrpclib
>> documentation.
>>
>> Thanks for any hints.

> "Client that never times out" is not a good idea,
generally.  
> Nothing in life is certain, but even moreso in
distributed 
> systems.  Timeouts are there to protect you from all
kinds
> of problem conditions (busy server, crashed
> server, etc.).  You really don't want your client to
be in a
> position of waiting for a response that is never
going to
> come.

...
> Paul

Thank you Paul for your informative message.

I do understand it's not a good idea to do this, and I
will check what you suggest. Nevertheless, I still
want to know: can a "never timeout" client be written
in xmlrpclib? 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  9 04:42:56 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:42:56 +0100
Subject: py2exe - COM Server problem
References: <bb8e48c9.0403080549.247efa4f@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.121.1078757477.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<bb8e48c9.0403090052.46e2bfdf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hdwymk4f.fsf@python.net>

paul.kemp at standardbank.com (Paul) writes:

> Hi Thomas
>
> Unfortunately I'm stuck with using Python 2.2, and therefore pywin32
> build 162, and so I can't use the latest py2exe.

What a pity.

> The frustrating thing is, I've had this working before, so I know it
> will work under these versions.
>
> I've tried the 'interp' example, but py2exe just reports 'nothing to
> do'

You can't use a py2exe 0.5 setup script with earlier versions.

> Any other ideas?

No.  And I don't have time to try these old versions.

Thomas




From P at draigBrady.com  Wed Mar 10 08:10:16 2004
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:10:16 +0000
Subject: sorting a list
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404F13B8.3030100@draigBrady.com>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hi
> I want to sort a list.
> My problem is:
> 
> 
>>>>a=['a','f','F','A','D']
>>>>a.sort()
>>>>a
> 
> ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
> 
> 
> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']
> 
> Is there any module to sort a list this way?

If you want to sort textual data sensitive to
the current user's language do this:

a=['a','f','F','A','D']
import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"")
a.sort(locale.strcoll)

-- 
P?draig Brady - http://www.pixelbeat.org


From stewart at midwinter.ca  Fri Mar 19 09:24:13 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 06:24:13 -0800
Subject: ftplib - uploading files using transfercmd?
References: <ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0403190624.1b69ac0b@posting.google.com>

Kevin Ollivier <kevino at tulane.edu> wrote in message news:<ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h at 4ax.com>...
> The first file uploads just fine, but on the second file I'm
> consistently seeing a weird problem where the response to the PORT
> command (sent by self.makeport()) comes *after* the STOR command is
> sent. 

Kevin, when you make a socket connection to the server, are you used
blocking or non-blocking?   A blocking connection won't proceed until
it gets a response, while the non-blocking will - and perhaps your
problem lies there.  your 2nd command gets a response before the first
one comes back.

Does indeed your problem only happen at the beginning, or can it
happen anywhere in your list of files?

S


From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 29 03:41:58 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:41:58 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <MoG9c.49478$cx5.24632@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<MoG9c.49478$cx5.24632@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <4067e157$0$3599$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>>although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed from Ruby
> 
> 
> I will fix that.

Cheers, actually I wasn't sure if it was inspired by Ruby or that you 
had come to this conclusion from a different route. Looks interesting.


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Mon Mar 22 06:39:26 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:39:26 GMT
Subject: values within quotes
References: <405ebd60$0$268$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <405ed06e$0$288$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:18:08 +0100, Guyon Mor?e <gumuz at looze.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Now I want, for
> example, the following command: GET FILE C:\my docs\my file.txt. Obviously I
> cannot use .split() for this one, because it uses spaces in the filename.
> Common pc knowledge tells me that I should put the 'space-value' witin
> quotes like: GET FILE "C:\my docs\my file.txt".
> 
> So the big question is: What is the best way to parse such a string?

distutils is a standard package with some gems :
from distutils.util import split_quoted
help(split_quoted)
s = 'GET FILE "C:\\my docs\\my file.txt"'
split_quoted(s)
['GET', 'FILE', 'C:\\my docs\\my file.txt']

and don't fall in the backslash trap, use forward slashes whenever possible.
> 
> kind regards,
> 
> Guyon
> 
> 


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 15 17:54:34 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:54:34 GMT
Subject: Swig-Python problems
References: <cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5cbcs.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4 at posting.google.com>, matteo wrote:
> Hi, I've got a problem with SWIG and Python2.2.I've installed the
> SWIG1.3.21 releaseunder QNX6.2 platform .I tried to make the exemple
> example.c (in the directory ../Swig/Exemple/python/simple)
> /* File : example.c */
>  
>  #include <time.h>
>  double My_variable = 3.0;
>  
>  int fact(int n) {
>      if (n <= 1) return 1;
>      else return n*fact(n-1);
>  }
>  
>  int my_mod(int x, int y) {
>      return (x%y);
>  }
>  	
>  char *get_time()
>  {
>      time_t ltime;
>      time(&ltime);
>      return ctime(&ltime);
>  }.
> After the commans:
> 
>  swig -python example.i
>  gcc -c example.c example_wrap.c -I/usr/local/python2.2
>  ld -shared example.o example_wrap.o -o _example.so 
> 
>  I use Python module as follows
> 
> >>> import example
> 
> and I've got the message: "Memory falut (core dumped)"
> What can I do??

I've found on Linux that it's easy to run the entire Python interpreter
under a debugger.  I'm not familiar with the tools on QNX, but I would
add "-g" to the gcc line (to add debugging symbols), and then run "gdb
python", so that when the program crashes you can see exactly where.

(If you're not familiar with gdb, type "run" at the first prompt, and
then use the interpreter as normal, and when the crash happens and you
get back to the gdb prompt, type "bt" to get a backtrace.  This should
be all you need to get started.)

Joe


From opstad at batnet.com  Mon Mar  1 10:47:23 2004
From: opstad at batnet.com (David Opstad)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:47:23 -0800
Subject: Determining the encoding of a text file
References: <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opstad-67CFF1.07472301032004@news-central.ash.giganews.com>

In article <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8 at posting.google.com>,
 rajorshi at fastmail.fm (Rajorshi) wrote:

>  How do I determine the encoding of a text file ? That is,
> given a text file I want to know the encoding it is in
> UTF8 or UTF16 or Latin etc. It would be very helpful if
> you could tell me how to do this in python on Linux. But
> just the method is acceptable.

If the first byte in the file is 0xFE and the second is 0xFF, then it's 
likely the file is encoded in big-endian UTF-16. If the first byte is 
0xFF and the second is 0xFE, then it's likely to be little-endian UTF-16.

Once you've eliminated those possibilities, then it gets trickier...

Dave


From oussoren at cistron.nl  Mon Mar 22 09:40:24 2004
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:40:24 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <99dce321.0403220451.4061cac5@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<99dce321.0403220451.4061cac5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DA864732-7C0E-11D8-8375-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>


On 22-mrt-04, at 13:51, David M. Wilson wrote:

> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote...
>
>> The current foo=staticmethod(foo) makes the Python 'staticmethod' seem
>> like a hack. Many users of staticmethod won't even need to know that
>> wrapping takes place.
>
> I find myself in diametric opposition here. :)
>
> Users (read: developers) /should/ know how staticmethod is working
> under it's skin, that's (and hopefully no-one here disagrees) a bloody
> good thing. The fact that defining a static method is a simple
> assignment tells the developer a lot more about Python's internal
> workings than extra syntax does. It's far more general, it's explicit,
> and it's readable.

It's only readable in very small examples, if you have functions that 
are longer than 10 lines it is no longer obvious that the assigment has 
anything to do with the function above.

To play devil's advocate, 'class Foo: pass' is also syntactic sugar, 
having explicit calls to type also tells a developer more about the 
inner workings of Python but that is not necessarily a good idea.

Ronald
--
X|support bv            http://www.xsupport.nl/
T:  +31 610271479       F:  +31 204416173




From hgeldenhuys at gmsonline.co.za  Wed Mar  3 06:31:51 2004
From: hgeldenhuys at gmsonline.co.za (Herman Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:31:51 +0200
Subject: capturing audio
Message-ID: <001b01c40113$1f45efe0$b10d10ac@metasalio>

Blankhas anybody tried to capture sound or audio from within python on windows?
i'm looking for an api for the lame encoder, but no luck. 

can anybody help?

thanks
-------------- next part --------------
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From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Mar  9 17:08:19 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:08:19 GMT
Subject: curses bkgd problem
References: <404C9A46.4070206@geochemsource.com>
	<mailman.159.1078819507.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nfr3c.1491$q45.896@news02.roc.ny>

On 2004-03-09, Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gandalf wrote:
>
>> stdscr = curses.initscr() # Get standard screen
>> curses.start_color()      # Uses colors
>> stdscr.bkgd(' ',curses.COLOR_BLUE ) # Set background of the main window
>> curses.noecho()           # Do not echo input
>> curses.cbreak()           # CBreak mode: process keys immediately (no 
>> ENTER)
>> stdscr.keypad(1)          # keypad mode: parse control sequences
>> stdscr.redrawwin()
>> stdscr.refresh()
>>
>> However, it is displaying $ characters in black instead of displaying 
>> a blue background full of spaces.
>> This must be a problem with my bkgd call since this works fine:
>>
>> curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_RED, curses.COLOR_WHITE)
>> stdscr.addstr(0, 0, curses.longname(), curses.color_pair(1) )
>> stdscr.refresh()
>>
> Now I'm doing this:
>
> def clrscr():
>     global stdscr
>     (maxy,maxx) = stdscr.getmaxyx()
>     line = ' ' * (maxx-1)
>     for row in range(maxy):
>         stdscr.addstr(row, 0, line, curses.color_pair(1) )
>
> which works fine except that the right side of the screen is still black.
> It is a very clumsy solution. Any ideas?
>
>   G
>


Here is a way that lets you fill in that right column ...


import curses

def main(scr):
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_BLACK, curses.COLOR_CYAN)
    clear2(scr, 1)
    c = scr.getch()
        
def clear(scr, pair):
    (maxy,maxx) = scr.getmaxyx()
    line = ' ' * (maxx-1)
    for row in range(maxy):
        scr.addstr(row, 0, line, curses.color_pair(pair) )
    
def clear2(scr, pair):
    scr.attron(curses.color_pair(pair))
    (h, w) = scr.getmaxyx()
    for y in range(h-1):
        for x in range(w):
            scr.move(y, x)
            scr.addch(' ')

def clear3(scr, pair):
    scr.attron(curses.color_pair(pair))
    scr.box()
    (h, w) = scr.getmaxyx()
    for y in range(1, h-1):
        for x in range(1, w-1):
            scr.move(y, x)
            scr.addch(' ')

curses.wrapper(main)



My own project does not use it like this (with the width going all the
way up to maxy) so there may have been other problems associated...

The way I do it is to use scr.box() like here in clear3()

If you don't want the line around the box, I think you can redefine
the characters used to draw the box.



From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Tue Mar 16 17:19:32 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:19:32 +1100
Subject: Dictionary & data
References: <mqK5c.22047$8G2.9439@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.16.22.19.32.928872@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:35:14 +0000, kbass wrote:

> I have retrieved data from a database and I want to place this data into a
> dictionary or something like a HashMap (in Java).  Can someone point me to
> an example?
> 
> kbass

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node7.html#SECTION007400000000000000000
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html

RTFM

Simon.



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 29 12:40:51 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:40:51 -0500
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <eOY9c.34271$tY6.1012774@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELGJNAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Andrew Koenig]
> I am looking for the most effective way to exchange v[i] and v[j], and
> expected to find something like
>
>     v.swap(i, j)
>
> but it doesn't seem to exist.

That's right.

> Is there anything better than
>
>     v[i], v[j] = v[j], v[i]

Not in general, no.

> (which I don't like particularly because it evaluates each of v[i]
> and v[j] twice)?

Well, it evaluates "i" and "j" twice each, and evaluates "v" four times.
The LHS in general creates calls to v.__setitem__, though, while the RHS
creates calls to v.__getitem__, so there's nothing more to be saved here in
general.  The CPython eval loop happens to special-case the snot out of the
RHS v[whatever] thingies when v is a list, and whatever is an int, doing it
all inline.

In all CPythons released to date, you'll probably find that

    temp = v[i]
    v[i] = v[j]
    v[j] = temp

runs faster than

    v[i], v[j] = v[j], v[i]

but that's an implementation accident that may get cured in Python 2.4 (it
has to do with the exact sequence of bytecodes generated, and the latter way
currently burns time building then tearing apart an intermediate 2-tuple).




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 20:30:22 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:30:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
In-Reply-To: <2c60a528.0403101722.71506b59@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040311013022.9026.qmail@web13011.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, I have installed CJKcodecs on my win2k.  OK,
finally I got something helpful.  So I'll try using
xmlproc or pxdom, which I am assuming understand the
GB encoding according to what you say, right?


--- Andrew Clover <and-google at doxdesk.com> wrote:
> Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > The problem remains even if I try
> encoding="UTF-16" or
> > encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
> > document.
> 
> Indeed, expat doesn't understand some of the more
> complex (DBCS)
> encodings such as GB.
> 
> In any case, you'll need CJKCodecs to get GB
> support, if you haven't
> installed them already. (They'll be built-in in a
> forthcoming Python
> version.) See http://cjkpython.i18n.org/
> 
> Then you'll need to either:
> 
>   - read in the file and transcode it before passing
> to expat
>     via minidom.parseString, or,
> 
>   - use a pure-Python parser such as xmlproc (a
> validating parser)
>     or the one in pxdom.
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Clover
> mailto:and at doxdesk.com
> http://www.doxdesk.com/
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From bogus at bogus.net  Tue Mar  9 18:23:02 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:23:02 GMT
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qls3c.78907$OH4.17774@fe2.texas.rr.com>

<ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f046efac.0403091513.3b392074 at posting.google.com...
> Hi
> I want to sort a list.
> My problem is:
>
> >>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
> >>> a.sort()
> >>> a
> ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
>
>
> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']
>
> Is there any module to sort a list this way?


>>> a =['a','f','F','A','D']
>>> a.sort( lambda x,y: (x.upper() == y.upper() and ord(x)-ord(y) or
ord(x.upper())-ord(y.upper()) ))
>>> a
['A', 'a', 'D', 'F', 'f']

(could probably stand a little more rigorous testing, though...)

-- Paul




From sc0rp at hot.pl  Wed Mar 24 04:31:39 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:31:39 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4061557B.78EE3E8F@hot.pl>


Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> ... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is static
> typing ...

Care to provide some examples to back this opinion up?

Best regards,
Jacek.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Mar 18 05:46:50 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:46:50 -0500
Subject: float problem
In-Reply-To: <f20ea932.0403180226.16ca2224@posting.google.com>
References: <f20ea932.0403180226.16ca2224@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40597E1A.9050904@rogers.com>

Tomasz Stochmal wrote:

>Hi
>
>
>I need to write a function that will convert a float number given as
>string into long and reverse function of that, example:
>
>'713566671863.6850' becomes 7135666718636850L
>7135666718636850L becomes '713566671863.6850'
>  
>
This really sounds like something you should do with fixedpoint, but if 
for some reason you can't use that and you want a quick hack:

 >>> def toLong( source ):
...     try:
...         whole, fraction = source.split( '.', 1 )
...     except ValueError: # no .
...         whole, fraction = source, ''
...     fraction = fraction[:4] +  '0000'[len(fraction):]
...     return long( whole + fraction )
...
 >>> toLong( '713566671863' )
7135666718630000L
 >>> toLong( '713566671863.6850' )
7135666718636850L
 >>> toLong( '.23' )
2300L
 >>>

But really, look at fixedpoint.py, likely to be far closer to what you 
*really* want.

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 10 18:15:57 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:15:57 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>

"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in
message news:slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500, John Roth wrote:
> > Someday people will get over their attachment with being able to write
> > programs with any old text editor that happens to be lying around, and
> > being able to print their programs without needing a special
> > formatting program, but that day isn't today, and I doubt if it's
> > tomorrow.
>
> I doubt it's ever, because such a day would have to be preceded by the
> day when programs no longer need to be inspected, maintained or
> transferred between systems not specifically set up as developer
> workstations.

How much real development (I don't mean archiving) do we do
today on systems without appropriate tools? Very little. The issue
isn't trying to develop on systems without appropriate tools, it's
developers that won't use tools that help them work.

John Roth

/>




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 12 23:03:30 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:03:30 +0000
Subject: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
References: <mailman.338.1079141189.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n70550ddl73tm5mosp5c7hq6u3qbfe6muq@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:26:25 +0000, "shalendra chhabra"
<shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Is it possible to order this itemset in an increasing order of key: value 
>with respect to keys. For example: if
>key4>key2>key3>key1
>then the resulting ordering should be in such a way:
>
>key4:value4, key2: value2,key3:value3>key1: value1

What you seem to be describing is decreasing order of key - the
highest key value (key4) first, with progressively smaller values at
later positions.

This is not hard. The only minor annoyance is that, unlike for
instance a C++ map, Python dictionaries don't naturally iterate in
sorted order (they use hashing rather than a tree structure, which
overall is probably neither better nor worse - just different).

Sorting tasks are quite common, so while that are not exactly
difficult I imagine there's a good guide on the internet somewhere for
newbies (links anyone?).

In this case, once you have the dictionary of key:value pairs you
extract a list of keys and sort it appropriately. The default sort is
in increasing order, so you reverse that to get decreasing order.
Then, if necessary, you use a list comprehension to get a list of
(key, value) tuples in the needed order. The list comprehension is
often redundant, though, as you can normally just iterate the sorted
keys and read the values from the dictionary when they're needed.

Here is a quick function...

def pairs_by_decreasing_key (p_Dict) :
  """
  Takes a dictionary and derives a list of (key, value) tuples
  in decreasing order of key.
  """
  tmp = p_Dict.keys (); tmp.sort (); tmp.reverse ()

  return [(i, p_Dict [i]) for i in tmp]


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From a at a.invalid  Fri Mar 26 16:50:32 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:50:32 +0200
Subject: Can I access perl application API's from python
In-Reply-To: <af288a61.0403261331.3b0d3a6d@posting.google.com>
References: <af288a61.0403261331.3b0d3a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c428j6$o8$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>

Chris Kacoroski wrote:
> I would like to use Python for several scripting tasks I have, but the
> applications I am scripting against only export a set of Perl API's. 
> Is there any  package that makes it easy to use an application's Perl
> APIs from Python.  Essentially I am looking for a package that would
> read a perl module and allow me to access the functions in that module
> from Python.  For example the Communigate Pro messsaging server has a
> Perl api, but not a python API (they also have a java API if that
> helps).

Since they have a Java API, I'd suggest you try Jython.

http://www.jython.org

--
Timo Virkkala


From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Sat Mar  6 09:03:23 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:03:23 +0100
Subject: CAN You help Re: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <4049d841$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
References: <mailman.60.1078574535.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4049d841$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <4049d999$0$41752$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

Small but essential correction on my previous post

Ruud de Jong schreef:

> dont bother schreef:
> 
>> Hi Jong,
>> Yes I really want the location of the number matching
>> in the dictionary.
>> This is because I have to input these feature vectors
>> to another program which takes [index: value ] where index: is the 
>> value specific to dictionary.
>> I dont care about the addition/extension of the words
>> in the dictionary but for now, I really want the index
>> of the word in the dictionary. This is also equivalent
>> to the line number of the word in the dictionary.
> 
> 
> OK. Back to basics. You have:
> 
> - a dictionary with one word per line
> - a message with words that may or may not be
>   words from the dictionary
> - another program that takes [index: value] as input,
>   and presumably does something useful.
> 
> So, you want to have a program that does the following:
> 
>   for each dictionary word that is present in the message,
>   output the "index: count", where index is the position of the
>   word in the dictionary, and count is the number of times
>   the word occurs in the message.
> 
> Side note: your original program divides the count by the
> total number of words in the message. Since both are integers,
> this division will always give 0. I will ignore this division
> for now, but in the actual program you'll need to address that.
> 
> Assuming your dictionary is too large to do a search to find the
> position of an individual word, you basically need two mappings,
> both keyed by actual words:
> 
> dictpos = {}, which maps dictionary words to dictionary positions
> wordcount = {}, which maps message words to frequence counts
> 
> dictpos you can fill from your dictionary file:
> 
> for i, w in file('dictionary')
>     dictpos[w.strip()] = i

This should obviously be:

for i, w in enumerate(file('dictionary'))
     dictpos[w.strip()] = i

> 
> (strip removes the trailing newline)
> 
> wordcount can be filled from the message, like:
> 
> for w in msg.split():
>     try:
>         wordcount[w] += 1
>     except KeyError:
>         wordcount[w] = 1
> 
> Now the output can be generated by:
> 
> for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
>     try:
>         print dictpos[w], ':', c
>     except KeyError:
>         pass
> 
> This output is not sorted according to dictionary position.
> If you need such sorting, that you'll have to capture everything
> in a list first, and sort list that before printing.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Ruud.
> 



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar 21 18:16:01 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:16:01 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Jon> Huh??  .pyc files are an "implementation detail of the Python
> Jon> interpreter"?  Care to expound further?  'Coz that sounds pretty
> Jon> nonsensical...
>
> "The internal structure of a .pyc file depends on the implementation
> details of the particular version of the Python interpreter that it was
> compiled with"
>
> now when you phrase it that way, it makes sense...

No that is not what I meant.  What I meant is that the very existence
of .pyc files is an implementation detail of one version of the Python
interpretter.  Tomorrow it could use 3 different files, or none at all.
They are pretty much an optional behind the scenes performance optimisation
for CPython.  There is no requirement for them to exist.

Tomorrow I could write my own Python interpretter that generates
.tok files, .optim files and .silly files.  As long as it executes
Python *source* (ie .py files) then those are an implementation
detail.

In Java, the JVM only executes bytecode. In CPython it only
executes .py files.  Behind the scenes as an implementation
optimisation, the .py files are tokenised and transformed into
bytecode and used as internal representation.  As an implementation
specific performance measure, they are written out to .pyc
files which are loaded if not out of date in the future instead
of re-parsing the .py files.

You could delete every .pyc file on your system, and then mark
your disk as read-only and your Python programs will run fine.

Java does something similar behind the scenes with HotSpot.
It compiles things to native code, and keeps profiling information.
They are not written out to disk and hence are not persistent
between executions, but if they were the usage would be analogous
to .pyc files.

Roger




From http  Fri Mar 12 15:37:20 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 12:37:20 -0800
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xoer1ls3j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:
> The script is setting the root password. It is running as root, by
> root as a daily cron job. It does three things:
> 
> 1. Set root password to XXXXXXXXX
> 2. Make certain ssh is enabled on the machine, if not enable it.
> 3. Email the machine's IP to the admins
> 
> Root is the owner of the script... it's perms are 700
> 
> Why am I doing this? Because users turn off ssh and change the root
> password. Mac OSX allows "administrative" users to do this. This
> script undoes their changes.

If they have changed the root password on their machine, then the old
root password in your script won't work on that machine.

Find another way to do what you're asking.


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 20:45:55 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:45:55 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F87@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F87@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <4068D153.2070400@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
>>Robert Brewer wrote:
>>
>>>I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different 
>>>approaches
>>>for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly 
>>>faster, but I get
>>>Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any 

>>So, here we go.
>>The attached script processes a gigabyte of data, one
>>million records, in about a minute on my machine, and
>>finds the single duplicate.
> 
> Thanks, Christian! Looks like someone's been having fun. ;)

Hey, I love to help. And this is no fun, this is my life.
Had to do urgent paid work, today, but this really got me
interested. :-)
Please use the second file on your problem, it is already ready
for your use case.

> But I don't see how your solution avoids the problem, however (some code
> snipped):
> 
>     def process_duplicates(self):
>         for i in range(len(self.files)):
>             seen = {}
>             has = seen.has_key
>             for k in range(self.flushes):
>                 bin = pickle.load(self.files[i])
>                 for key, value in bin:
>                     if has(key):
>                         self.duplicates += 1
>                     else:
>                         seen[key] = value

Just try it, it works!

Here why it works (actually, you don't use my most recent source):

The first step processes all the hash keys and distrbutes them
over the first byte.

That means, the first byte categorizes things into 256 different
bins. If any of those keys are equal, then their first byte
must be equal, as well. The simple trick is to group all keys with
the same starting byte into the same file.

Here the simple, simple rule that you need to swallow:
If two records have the same hash, since they are possibly
a duplicate, then these two hashes will be identical.
And if these two hashes are identical, then their first byte
will be identical, too.

By grouping all hashes with the same first byte into bins,
I can make sure that a duplicates can only exist, if and only
iff they are in the same bin.

In other words, it is necessary and sufficient to just check
each bin alone for duplicates.

That means, I don't have to look into all keys at the same time,
when I've built the bins. It is completely sufficient to look into one 
bin at a time. Please see the above algorithm, it starts over with a
fresh "seen" dict for every bin. The second version of the algo does
the same thing, just with the same single file, which is just a
conglomerate of 256 files with disjoint starting positions of pickles.
But basically, it is the same.

> ...that is, the 'seen' dictionary is what is growing too large on my
> dataset; it ends up being about 7 million items. Actually, I have three
> such dictionaries (3 different fields which I'm checking for dupes for
> each record). The hashing might cut these sizes down a bit, but I think
> I'm still going to end up having to cache 'seen' (which I call 'indices'
> in my Directory.produce() method) somehow.

Your dict won't grow, since it is 256 disjoint dicts, now.
It is always a new seen dict, for every bin.
Note: The bins are disjoint by contruction.

And I have an additional algorithm on stock, which I did 20 years
ago, on sorting almost infinetly sized datasets, without prior
knowledge of the total record count. I can apply it here as well.
The idea is then to take more and more bytes into account, running
over the first file, and distributing subkeys into a second file.
This can be repeated ad infinitum, with two files of fixed size.
For your (simple, sorry) problem, one additional pass is sufficient.

The only difference in this case is that I don't have to do
full sorting, but just equality tests. This is why hashing is so
efficient. I didn't know this at that time and used full sorting
(Knuth's snow-plow like thing, with a priority queue as a multi-
branch tree-of-loosers sorter ...)

ciao - chris (stackless, but not only...)

p.s.: yes, I come from discrete math, but I'd like to see more IT
students getting deeper into it, since there is a huge gap,
nowadays.

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Sat Mar 20 18:29:00 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:29:00 -0500
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
In-Reply-To: <105pd227mcmp646@news.supernews.com>
References: <xK17c.26714$Eb6.852981@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<105pd227mcmp646@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Us47c.27055$Eb6.898877@news20.bellglobal.com>

John Roth wrote:

> "Pierre Rouleau" <prouleau at impathnetworks.com> wrote in message
> news:xK17c.26714$Eb6.852981 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>In several occasions, I found myself looking for a function that would
>>take a value and restrict is within a specified set of boundaries.   For
>>a 1-dimension value, I could simply write
>>
>>min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
>>
>>to restrict value within the range made of theMin to theMax.
>>It assumes that theMax >= theMin.
>>
>>I was looking for a single call to restrict a value within bounds that
>>would do pretty much that, so i wrote this trivial one:
>>
>>def restrain(value, theMin, theMax) :
>>     """Return a value that is in restricted to the [theMin, theMax]
> 
> range.
> 
>>     **Example**
>>
>>     >>> for val in xrange(-1,7,1):
>>     ...   print "restrain(%d,1,5) = %d" % (val, restrain(val,1,5))
>>     ...
>>     restrain(-1,1,5) = 1
>>     restrain(0,1,5) = 1
>>     restrain(1,1,5) = 1
>>     restrain(2,1,5) = 2
>>     restrain(3,1,5) = 3
>>     restrain(4,1,5) = 4
>>     restrain(5,1,5) = 5
>>     restrain(6,1,5) = 5
>>     >>>
>>     """
>>
>>     assert(theMax >= theMin)
>>     return min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
>>
>>
>>Without the assertion check, the restrain() named function runs
>>expectedly slower than the explicit min(max()) calls:
>>
>>C:\Python23\Lib>timeit "min(max(5,1),0)"
>>1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.02 usec per loop
>>
>>C:\Python23\Lib>timeit -s"from ut import restrain" "restrain(5,1,6)"
>>1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.53 usec per loop
>>
>>Again, I found myself writing code that has to restrain the values to
>>some range and prefer using the restrain() function instead of the
>>min(max()) one.
>>
>>Therefore, I was wondering if it would it make sense to add a function
>>like restrain() to the list of Python built-ins.  Or is there something
>>like that already in the Python library?
>>
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Pierre
> 
> 
> I know I've wanted that on (infrequent) occasion. I think
> "minmax" makes a better name, though, and I suspect it
> would have to be implemented in C to make any sense,
> performancewise.
> 
> John Roth
> 
I would prefer 'limit' than 'minmax' myself if 'restrain' was not 
'retained' ;-)

Pierre Rouleau



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 21:16:34 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:16:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
Message-ID: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>

I am kinda new to Python, but not new to programming. 
I am a certified Java programmer.

I don't want to read line after line, neither do I
want to read the whole file all at once.  Thus none of
read(), readline(), readlines() is what I want. I want
to read a text file sentence by sentence. 

A sentence by definition is roughly the part between a
full stop and another full stop or !, ?

So, for example, for the following text:

"Some words here, and some other words. Then another
segment follows, and more. This is a question, a junk
question, followed by a question mark?"

It has 3 sentences (2 full stops and 1 question mark),
and therefore I want to read it in 3 lumps and each
lump gives me one complete sentence as follows:

lump 1: Some words here, and some other words.

lump 2: Then another segment follows, and more.

lump 3: This is a question, a junk question, followed
by a question mark?

How can I achieve this?  Do we have a readsentence()
function?

Please give a hint.  Thank you!


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Mar  7 21:35:03 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:35:03 -0500
Subject: Question on loops
References: <e0bff448.0403071748.352848e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NYQ2c.1493$6y1.213533@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Daniel H Neilson" <google at neilson.sent.com> wrote in message
news:e0bff448.0403071748.352848e2 at posting.google.com...
[snip]
> I need to take
> another action every 100 lines. Currently I am using something to the
> effect of:
>
> i = 0
> for line in file:
>     if i == 100:
>         action
>         i = 0
>     else:
>         i += 1
>     process(line)
>
> But this doesn't feel like a very python-esque solution to me, and is
> not very elegant in any case. What would be a better way to do it?
[snip]

Hi

If you're using Python 2.3+ you can use enumerate() and a little
modulo arithmetic:

for index, line in enumerate(file):
    if (index+1)%100 == 0:
        action
    process(line)

enumerate() generates (index, value) pairs for an iterable (in this case,
your file), so you don't need to maintain your own counter (i).

The modulo arithmetic ((index+1)%100 == 0) lets you perform
your action every 100 lines [*] (and avoids performing your action
on the first iteration when index == 0).

HTH,
Sean




[*]
In your original code, you're actually doing your action every 101
lines - notice:
    len([0,1,2,3,4, ..., 98,99]) == 100
    len([0,1,2,3,4, ..., 98,99,100]) == 101






From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar  1 04:14:16 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 10:14:16 +0100
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfy8ql9bfb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Thinking a bit more, the issue is not about the scope rules, it is about
> how the "for" loop is interpreted. Currently

Heh, this hadn't yet appeared on my server at the time I started
writing my last followup to you. It seems that you have spotted for
yourself, that which my article attempts to point out ... again :-)

> Essentially, the "i" variable would be passed via the helper function
> call and at each iteration the lambda function would see a different
> value of it.

The important point is that it would see a different _binding_ of that
name.

> I am proposing nothing here, just asking if it would make sense to
> have a looping construct acting this way

Scheme is over there =>

:-)


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Mar  2 04:08:16 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 10:08:16 +0100
Subject: wxWindows changes name
References: <slrnc3lhvi.19b.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<480m30hd68ncg81if70n81h8tict03oda3@4ax.com>
	<wzy8qsfqe6.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.62.1077653810.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<wzwu6b4b0k.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<38ec68a6.0402251653.66ab16a9@posting.google.com>
	<c20o7c$1n2bia$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <wzptbvhb0f.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> (GE) wrote:

GE> Asun Friere wrote:
>> The fear of genericity explains why Xerox
>> launched a big campaign to introduce the word 'photocopying' (instead
>> of 'xeroxing')

GE> Aha! So we should all start using the term "windowing" to
GE> mean the act of using a computer (of any brand) with a GUI,
GE> and promote the use of this term at every chance we get...

No, it should be "windowsing" to be effective :=)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Mar 26 03:50:21 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:50:21 -0000
Subject: monitoring a directory
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347E3@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>Now how do I do this for UNIX?
>
>I always did the 1 second looping thing and felt somewhat ashamed that
>I couldn't think of anything better... It seems like there should be
>some sort of blocking system call that will return when a directory or
>file changes -- something like "select".
>
>Yours,
>Noah

Personally, I'm ignorant, but this guy seems to know what
he's talking about:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/217829

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
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From ods at strana.ru  Thu Mar  4 11:57:44 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:57:44 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
In-Reply-To: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403041956330.10232-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Boogie El Aceitoso wrote:

BEA> How can I catch a generic exception (without knowing a
BEA> priori what exception
BEA> it will be)?

try:
    generateSomeException()
except:
    import sys
    print sys.exc_info()[1]

BEA> For example, something like this
BEA> try:
BEA>    generateSomeException()
BEA> except e:
BEA>   print e

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From address at is.invalid  Mon Mar 15 12:31:53 2004
From: address at is.invalid (Bill)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:31:53 -0800
Subject: random.random - Interpreter works, Script doesn't?
References: <105ac9sm9lvij49@corp.supernews.com>
	<vjka50dllikgbrmnel0b55ldrsq95tsvga@4ax.com>
	<c34khj02f8g@enews2.newsguy.com>
	<c34n2s$hcd$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c34pab02ked@enews2.newsguy.com>


> You didn't name the above script random.py, did you :-)
>
> Peter
>
Bingo :o) Thanks! Bad habit, huh?




From no at sp.am  Sun Mar 28 12:03:25 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:03:25 -0600
Subject: ZODB for beginners - the most simple example ?
In-Reply-To: <282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6@posting.google.com>
References: <282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jo2dnUsFtu39mPrd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Richard Shea wrote:
> Hi - I'm trying to use ZODB but I'm having trouble getting started.
> Can anyone point me at a very simple example ?
> 
> I've had a look at 'ZODB/ZEO Programming Guide'
> (http://zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node2.html) but although
> it's good stuff it's not clear to me how the pieces of example fit
> together to produce something that works.
> 
> I've also read 'Introduction to the Zope Object Database'
> (http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/fulton/zodb3.html)
> which has good examples but they rely on a module called 'PTextIndex'
> which (as far as I can see) is not defined anywhere.
> 
> So if anyone could point me at a very, very simple ZODB usage example
> I'd be very grateful (and I should just say that both of the above
> resources are very helpful so thanks to their authors).

You're right, it's hard to find a simple, complete example.  The ZODB 
download doesn't include any examples either.
This article has an example, although it is over 3 years old:
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=23413


From fs111 at linuxmail.org  Wed Mar  3 05:34:11 2004
From: fs111 at linuxmail.org (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Andr=E9?= Kelpe)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:34:11 +0100
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c24cb3$1oj5g2$1@ID-112871.news.uni-berlin.de>

sb wrote:

> Hello

Hi!

>    - reference manual invocation by keyword from within the editor

Please try my pydoc.vim, it is available at:

http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=910

>    - object browser,

Use taglist.vim, it is great!

Andr?


From beliavsky at aol.com  Mon Mar  1 13:35:32 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 10:35:32 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>

Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c1t89m$a3u$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>...

<SNIP>

As others pointed out, your programs mostly test the speed of I/O.
Here is a simple comparison of the speed of integer arithmetic using
Python and Fortran 95 (Compaq Visual Fortran 6.6, with full
optimization).

Python:

i = 1
j = 0
while i < 100000000:
   j = j + i
   i = i + 1
print j

Fortran 95:

program add
integer*8 :: i,j
j = 0
do i=1,99999999
   j = j + i
end do
print*,j
end program add

numerical result: 4999999950000000
elapsed times in seconds, using timethis.exe command on Windows XP
Professional:

Python   93.4
Fortran   0.28

The Fortran program is more than 300 times faster. The benchmarks at
http://www.polyhedron.co.uk/compare/win32/f90bench_p4.html suggest
that the Fortran/Python speed gap is even larger if the Intel Fortran
compiler is used.
The speed ratio of the fastest to slowest Fortran compiler is about
two, so ANY Fortran compiler beats Python by more than two orders of
magnitude here.

The Intel Fortran compiler for Linux can be obtained free for
noncommercial use at
http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/flin/noncom.htm .


From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 15 07:52:46 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:52:46 +0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
> Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily bound
> to a particular type.

Python 1.5.2 (#1, Jan 31 2003, 11:01:49)  [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat 
Linux 7.2 2 on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
 >>> a = 1
 >>> a
1
 >>> a = "fred"
 >>> a
'fred'
 >>> a = open
 >>> a
<built-in function open>
 >>>

So here was have a variable 'a'. In the first instance I set it to a 
number. Then I set it to a string. Now in a strongly typed language, 
such as C or C++, would be screaming that "fred" was not an integer. 
Then we set it to, in effect, a pointer to a function. Again no error.

Could you please clarify how this consitutes Python being 'strongly typed'?


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar 31 09:42:36 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:42:36 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<nBiac.42307$PY.17419@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
	<4069F371.B4D08F58@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106lm6sahuvb003@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4069F371.B4D08F58 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Well, my bout with Perl took much, much more than an hour.
>It worked, though.  It's probably not enough experience to
>get a good look at the strength of Perl.  For example, I
>am a vim user (an editor), which is cryptic at first, but
>let's you fly when you get to know it.  I'm not saying that
>all things cryptic are efficient in the end, just that a
>brief bout won't always uncover the strengths.  As a
			.
			.
			.
Absolutely:  a brief bout is a poor guide to long-term
strengths.  The consensus of our follow-ups, though, is
this:  Perl and Python both have so many, and so com-
parable, strengths "in the large", and they both have
such interesting cosmetics, that it *is* meaningful for
you to spend an hour or two and get a clear first impres-
sion of each.  Some things (people, cultures, foods, ...)
can't be known at a first glance.  When restricting your
attention to Perl and Python, a first glance *is* help-
ful.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 05:47:08 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:47:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <7de2e74a623ae9f3ff3fe9ae4e1ec2b4@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <20040315104708.42903.qmail@web8311.mail.in.yahoo.com>

>>I do not think forced *declaration* is important,
>>except perhaps in
>>C/++/#/Java, Pascal, Ada, etc.  

Why the discrimination? Considering programming
languages in general, what do you have to say with
forced declaration?

I don't think the discrimination is justified
considering that all of them belong to the
procedural/OOP (read same) paradigm.


=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From bob at redivi.com  Tue Mar  2 02:39:23 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:39:23 -0500
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2004030202392343042%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-02 01:24:04 -0500, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele 
Simionato) said:

> michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) wrote in message 
> news:<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e at posting.google.com>...
>> Thinking a bit more, the issue is not about the scope rules, it is about
>> how the "for" loop is interpreted. Currently
>> 
>> for i in iterable:
>> <do_something i>
>> 
>> is interpreted as
>> 
>> try:
>> it=iter(iterable)
>> while True:
>> i=it.next()
>> <do_something i>
>> except StopIteration:
>> pass
>> 
>> The issue would disappear if the "for" loop included an hidden function
>> call and was interpreted as follows:
>> 
>> try:   it=iter(iterable)
>> def helper(i):
>> <do_something i>
>> while True:
>> helper(it.next())
>> except StopIteration:
>> pass
>> 
>> For instance, in the example I am talking about,
>> 
>> def make_adders(n):
>> return [lambda x: x+i for i in range(n)]
>> 
>> would be interpreted as
>> 
>> def make_adders(n):
>> try:
>> adders=[]
>> it=iter(range(2))
>> def helper(i):
>> adders.append(lambda x: x+i)
>> while True:
>> helper(it.next())
>> except StopIteration:
>> return adders
>> 
>> Essentially, the "i" variable would be passed via the helper function
>> call and at each iteration the lambda function would see a different
>> value of it.
>> 
>> I am proposing nothing here, just asking if it would make sense to
>> have a looping construct acting this way (my guess is that this
>> has already been proposed and discussed). This would have
>> the added benefit of avoiding a non-local loop variable (i.e. a
>> loop variable which exists even outside the loop) which is the
>> actual unfortunate behavior.
>> 
>> Michele Simionato
> 
> Just to add another data point, I asked on comp.lang.functional and 
> discovered that Haskell list comprehension works as I would expect,
> i.e. differently from Python:
> 
> Prelude> let make-adders n = [ \x -> x + i | i <- [0..n-1] ]
> Prelude> let [add0,add1] = make_adders 2
> Prelude> add0 0
> 0
> Prelude> add1 0
> 1
> 
> So, it looks like as if Haskell implements the idea I exposed.
> Still, it is to be discussed if the idea makes sense in Python.
> 
> 1. Assuming all "for" loops and list comprehensions are replaced
>    with Haskell bindings rules, what about backward compatibility
>    problems? For instance: is there enough code relying on the loop    
> variable being available outside the loop?
> 
> 2. If, due to compatibility issues, it is not possible to change the
>    binding rules of existing loops, would it make sense to propose
>    these binding rules for Python 2.4 generator comprehension?
>    This would not be backward incompatible, but would it generate
>    confusion?

It could always be a __future__

> 3. Assuming the rules can be changed without real trouble, is the feature
>    worth enough? Do people care about it, and is there somebody willing
>    to take the job?

I know that I've been bitten by this before, but after doing it once or 
twice you learn how to get around it.. the biggest problem I have with 
list comprehensions is that I think they should have the same scoping 
rules as an inner function would, as opposed to a for loop (i.e., 
shouldn't pollute namespace).

-bob



From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar 13 04:13:45 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:13:45 +0100
Subject: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
References: <mailman.342.1079151943.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4052d0ba$0$15635$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Do a google for DiveIntoPython and read the first chapters. it will blow
your mind on string manipulation.

Cheerz,
Ivo.
http://IvoNet.nl
"Life is like a nose.. You have to get out of it what's in it!"


"shalendra chhabra" <shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.342.1079151943.19534.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hey Stephen,
> Thanks. I got what you said and by mistake I had typed the order in
> Decreasing, which I needed too.
>
> However, right now I see this interesting problem here on this list of
"dont
> bother" which seems interesting.
>
> If one has a string and can this string be assigned to a dictionary and
then
> we can apply the sorting methods of dictionary on it.
> For example: the information in my itemset can be treated as a string.
>
> itemset{}
> itemset=str(key[i])+str(value[i]) #done over a loop and and then some how
> can get everything concatenated
>
> If I am not mistaken the itemset is now a string.
> How can I assign this itemset back to a dictionary? Is there any way?
> If yes! then we can apply the sort methods for increasing order and for
> decreasing order you have given me the function already.
>
> Please clear my doubt
>
> Thanks
> Shalen
>
> >From: Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk>
> >To: python-list at python.org
> >Subject: Re: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
> >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:03:30 +0000
> >
> >On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:26:25 +0000, "shalendra chhabra"
> ><shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Is it possible to order this itemset in an increasing order of key:
value
> > >with respect to keys. For example: if
> > >key4>key2>key3>key1
> > >then the resulting ordering should be in such a way:
> > >
> > >key4:value4, key2: value2,key3:value3>key1: value1
> >
> >What you seem to be describing is decreasing order of key - the
> >highest key value (key4) first, with progressively smaller values at
> >later positions.
> >
> >This is not hard. The only minor annoyance is that, unlike for
> >instance a C++ map, Python dictionaries don't naturally iterate in
> >sorted order (they use hashing rather than a tree structure, which
> >overall is probably neither better nor worse - just different).
> >
> >Sorting tasks are quite common, so while that are not exactly
> >difficult I imagine there's a good guide on the internet somewhere for
> >newbies (links anyone?).
> >
> >In this case, once you have the dictionary of key:value pairs you
> >extract a list of keys and sort it appropriately. The default sort is
> >in increasing order, so you reverse that to get decreasing order.
> >Then, if necessary, you use a list comprehension to get a list of
> >(key, value) tuples in the needed order. The list comprehension is
> >often redundant, though, as you can normally just iterate the sorted
> >keys and read the values from the dictionary when they're needed.
> >
> >Here is a quick function...
> >
> >def pairs_by_decreasing_key (p_Dict) :
> >   """
> >   Takes a dictionary and derives a list of (key, value) tuples
> >   in decreasing order of key.
> >   """
> >   tmp = p_Dict.keys (); tmp.sort (); tmp.reverse ()
> >
> >   return [(i, p_Dict [i]) for i in tmp]
> >
> >
> >--
> >Steve Horne
> >
> >steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk
> >--
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Xerox Multifunction devices that print,copy,scan and fax.
> http://go.msnserver.com/IN/44797.asp Get affordable printing solutions
that
> fit your needs .
>
>




From maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl  Tue Mar  9 11:26:32 2004
From: maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl (Maarten van Reeuwijk)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:26:32 +0100
Subject: problem
References: <mailman.171.1078839212.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2kr7n$fmt$1@news.tudelft.nl>

ciccio at unical.it wrote:

> Hi
> I have a big probel. I'm using a script to run sequencially 5 programs,
> but just one of them runs before the next. Can you help me to solve this
> problem? many thanks
> ernesto

Are these processes that fork off a child process? The following example
waits nicely, as you would expect.

import os
os.system("read")
os.system("echo 'writing in shell!'")

And this one doesn't:

import os
os.system("read &")
os.system("echo 'writing in shell!'")

system executes the string in a subshell. If the command runs in the
background, the subshell finishes and also kills the subprocess.

HTH, Maarten



-- 
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk                    Thermal and Fluids Sciences
Phd student                             dept. of Multiscale Physics
www.ws.tn.tudelft.nl                 Delft University of Technology


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 12:40:29 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:40:29 -0700
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <j6t3505n7n9v62snui59g3l7fb71598rpr@4ax.com>

On 12 Mar 2004 17:13:19 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:06:38 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:54:56 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>> >wrote:
>> 
>> >>Scopes are defined by the boundaries of functions, classes and
>> >>modules, not for loops.  This is essential, or you would have to
>> >>declare global variables inside most for loops.
>
>> The one exception I can think of is what Terry Reedy mentioned - the
>> iteration variable in a list comprehension.  In some future
>> optimization, they may neglect to save that variable.  I hope they
>> don't do that (even though it really has no use).  I just like the
>> consistency we now have in treatment of all local variables.
>
>You can maintain that consistency by extending the list of
>"boundaries" which define scopes; you already mentioned classes,
>functions and modules ... now simply add list comprehensions (or
>loops), and you will maintain perfect consistency of treatment of
>local variables, without leaking variables out of list comprehensions
>(or loops).

I think the current design of Python is the right compromise between
narrow scopes that avoid conflicts between identical names and broad
scopes that minimize the need for global declarations.  Imagine having
to declare globals inside every loop that needed to set some value
outside of its own tiny little scope.

-- Dave



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 23 10:55:14 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:55:14 -0000
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1060nf2nten7u95@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list at python.org>,
Ed Cogburn  <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>The language shootout someone posted about was very interesting.  By my 
>"criteria", Lua is the closet to what I'm looking for, unfortunately it seems 
>to be just a slight variation of Python (byte-compiled-then-interpreted), and 
>although it scores higher, it does so just barely (virtually identical on 
>Linux).  For me, ocaml is the real surprise, it scores the same as gcc (on the 
>Linux side, see the link below).  Its not Python-like, of course, but I'm 
>surprised to see any other language score as well as gcc on a *nix system (gcc 
>being born on *nix, being one of the oldest and most heavily used and 
>beaten-on languages, as well as being optimized to death).
>
>http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps2craps.html
>
>

Sometimes Lua can be quite a bit faster than Python.  Re-
cent versions of both have significantly improved performance
in some aspects.  The big news in the Lua world is The Book
<URL: http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b47ab9c7633a2597 >.

Ocaml is rather miraculous in a couple of ways, including
performance.  I suspect you'd like it.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From hukolau at NOSPAM.att.net  Mon Mar  8 13:35:45 2004
From: hukolau at NOSPAM.att.net (Nick Landsberg)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:35:45 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5233c.172258$hR.3193415@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>



Bootstrap Bill wrote:

> "Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> wrote in message
> news:404675da at news.tce.com...
> 
>>Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will tell
>>you someplace that it is still in active use.
> 
> 
> Radio Shack Level I BASIC?
> 
> 

MAD?  (AKA - Michigan Algorithmic Decoder)

-- 
?
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious" - A. Bloch



From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar  7 10:41:04 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:41:04 -0500
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
References: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.98.1078668652.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-A2F928.10410407032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.98.1078668652.19534.python-list at python.org>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Have a look at
> 
>     http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/ConstantMap.py

This pointed me to the simpliest solution.  I ended up with:

map = {}
for name, value in globals().items():
        if name.startswith ("OP_"):
                map[value] = name

which seems to work just fine.  Thanks to everybody who responded with 
suggestions.

The danger here is that I'm depending on the fact that there are no 
globals defined elsewhere in the system which start with "OP_", but that 
seems like a pretty minimal risk.  In fact, it looks like all the 
externally defined globals are of the form __xxx__.


From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  9 15:29:10 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:29:10 +0100
Subject: DLL version number
References: <8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e@posting.google.com>
	<404d1159_5@127.0.0.1>
	<8ef9bea6.0403091148.19e75629@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ishdlq7d.fsf@python.net>

hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) writes:

> "Roger Upole" <rupole at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<404d1159_5 at 127.0.0.1>...
>> You can use win32api.GetFileVersionInfo.
>> See /demos/getfilever.py for an example of how to use it.
>>        Roger
>> 
>> "Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e at posting.google.com...
>> >
>> > If I have a Windows DLL file, how can I retrieve its version number
>> > (e.g.: 2.40.4275.1)? Does Win32 extensions, ctypes or related modules
>> > provide such a utility?
>
> Thanks. However, I still have problems. What I need are the 4-part
> version numbers, which GetFileVersionInfo() does not provide.

Versioninfo resources are very complex beasts. They normally contain
strings, and numerical values as well.  I believe what you want are the
numeric version numbers in the VS_FIXEDFILEINFO structure.  There are 4
16-bit fields encoded as 2 32 bit fields, named dwFileVersionMS and
dwFileVersionLS.

The ctypes source distribution has a sample script (slightly outdated,
but it still works) in the samples/Windows/VersionInfo.py file.

Thomas




From http  Wed Mar 31 17:09:21 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 14:09:21 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.86.1080611520.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<66a61715.0403300657.61323b0e@posting.google.com>
	<8ea19805001359792a4e52ab984a1e8c@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <7xfzbo3bzi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> writes:
> From a crusty old unix developer to a crusty old database developer...
> Part 2 can be done by piping the output of sort to the 'uniq' program
> (available in cygwin and mingw also, I think).

>From a maybe even crustier unix developer: "sort -u" strips dups.


From nholtz at docuweb.ca  Sat Mar 13 07:43:41 2004
From: nholtz at docuweb.ca (Neal Holtz)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 04:43:41 -0800
Subject: Simple Problem: Getting rid of {}
References: <mailman.330.1079123993.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <639f17f8.0403130443.53b2214@posting.google.com>

By starting it

feature_vector=''
feature_element=''

To see why, try this:

fv = {}           # this creates an empty dictionary, not a string
print str(fv)
fv =''
print str(fv)

dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.330.1079123993.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> I have done some string concatenation:
> 
> feature_vector={}
> feature_element={}
> 
> #inside a loop
> 
>         if (v==0):
>                 feature_element=str(1)+"
> "+str(index[i])+":"+str(vector[i])+" "
>                 print feature_element
>         else:
>                     
> feature_element=str(index[i])+":"+str(vector[i])+" "
> 
>        
> feature_vector=str(feature_element)+str(feature_vector)
>         if (v==0):
>                 print feature_vector
> 
> 
> when I print feature_vector I get my desired output
> but with an extra {} in the end.
> 
> Output:
> 
> 1 22389:0.0291806958474
> 1 22389:0.0291806958474 {}
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to understand why this is happening since
> feature_element should also have {} in the end, if it
> was the case with the variables I declared with like:
> syntax{}
> 
> How to get rid of this extra {} from my string.
> 
> Thanks
> Dont
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 13:26:41 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:26:41 -0800
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<uteb50lm5t0l2mf2f3lklmr3ruusj3mfjv@4ax.com>
	<j4qb505fhlukq14p92ae961bfuhsurfo08@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <donn-52196E.10264115032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <j4qb505fhlukq14p92ae961bfuhsurfo08 at 4ax.com>,
 David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:43:20 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
> wrote:

>> t=None #(or something) 
>>
>> required prior to a loop would  assure I am conscious of what I am
>> getting myself into.  Without it, it seems it isn't safe to assume the
>> user understands the full implications of simply complying with
>> required loop syntax.
>>
>> Wouldn't something like this make sense:
>>
>> With a loop iteration variable declared explicitly in the curent scope
>> and prior to the loop, it survives the loop.  Otherwise it is treated
>> as a placeholder within the loop, and goes out of scope at its
>> conclusion.
> 
> This is a little too tricky for my taste.  Often we need to 'break'
> from a loop, and subsequently use the value of 't'.  If we forget to
> "declare" 't' outside the loop, then we will have a situation where
> you get a run-time error if the loop ends without a break.

I didn't read anything there that proposed to make a distinction
between `ends with break' and `ends without break.'  That would
be a bad thing.

> What is the benefit of keeping 't' out of the surrounding local
> scope?"  This whole thread seems pointless unless there is a
> substantial benefit to changing the current behavior.

Well, the bottom line has to be whether it's easier to
read the code and understand what it does.  In a procedural
language like Python, variable scope is critical to that,
so it's important to get it right.  Unfortunately, I don't
know if there's a good answer.

Taking list comprehensions, because that's what the original
post took at least as an example and because that's the only
case that is new enough to half seriously consider changing -

   t = f(a/c)
   ... # and then later,
   sl = [t * t for t in range(3)]

In this case, I would argue that it's an error for t to escape
the expression scope _because_ it's used outside that scope -
actually I think that was where we came in.  My personal view
is that a list comprehension should have its own internal scope,
period, but is that what `intuition' would lead most Python
programmers to expect?  I don't know.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar  6 14:47:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:47:00 -0700
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cr9k4015r8nc2a0ffheih0p2c6vj6rrcip@4ax.com>

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:15:44 +0000, Jonathon McKitrick
<jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org> wrote:

>
>Hi all,
>
>I am totally hooked on what I have learned about python.  I am going to use
>it to develop a simple data entry app I need for some financial record
>keeping.
>
>I understand tkinter is official and simple to use, but many who use
>wxPython swear by it, and it is gaining ground.
>
>I would like to run on any platform, but that's not critical.  What I want
>to do is support an app that will grow over time, and should look clean.  I
>don't want to spend lots of time maintaining GUI code rather than app logic.
>
>Can anyone offer any advice?

I've tried TkInter, BlackAdder, and Qt.  My choice is Qt. TkInter
seems a little "unpolished", at least for the level of effort I'm
willing to put in, although I see some really excellent examples of
highly polished GUI's ( IDLE for example ) so I know it can be done.

What I use now is Qt Designer, PyQt, and IDLE.  This gives me an
*outstanding* GUI toolkit, an easy GUI Builder, a quick translation to
Python (using pyuic and a makefile), and a simple, but really solid
development environment.  I'm developing under Linux, but expecting to
run "native" on all platforms.  I haven't tried the Windows version of
Qt Designer.

I believe the licensing issue with Qt is overblown.  If your work is
purely non-commercial, use the GPL license.  If you are a typical
commercial developer, it should be no problem to pay $1550 per
developer license (no runtime royalties).  I've heard there are
problems for commercial developers who can't afford the $1550.  I
would say, don't worry.  If your project fails to make a profit, I
really doubt Trolltech is going to sue you.  I think they would be
quite happy to get the first $1550 of any successful project.

I think Trolltech's licensing is a model of good citizenship in the
open-source community and fair sharing of profits from commercial
work.  It allows them to contribute their best version (no
cripple-ware) to the open-source community, while still earning a
living as full-time programmers.

The only thing I would like to see on the licensing is some
clarification on dealing with the penniless commercial developer.
Perhaps a limit like "we won't ask for more than 10% of your sales".
This would only affect developers with total sales less than $15,500.

-- Dave



From avikghose at yahoo.co.in  Thu Mar 18 11:18:15 2004
From: avikghose at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Avik=20Ghose?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:18:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: running TCL from python
Message-ID: <20040318161815.43496.qmail@web8304.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hi All,
How can I run a TCL script from within my python code?
Thanks in advance
Avik


Thanks and regards,
Avik Ghose
Yahoo! India Promos:  Win a trip for 2 to Britain. Click here.
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From noah at noah.org  Thu Mar 25 13:32:28 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 10:32:28 -0800
Subject: os.execlp and stdout
References: <105untml7a9ob12@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403251032.5709f808@posting.google.com>

"Melissa Wallis" <mwallis at swri.org> wrote in message news:<105untml7a9ob12 at corp.supernews.com>...
> In a Python script I start a number of C++ processes using os.execlp. Most
> of these processes output messages for debugging purposes at this time.  The
> problem I am having is that by starting 4 or 5 processes from my Python
> script I don't get the cout messages they write.  I have tried redirecting
> stdout to a file but I get everything but the output from the C++ processes.
> Any suggestions.

They may be writing to stdout, but that doesn't mean it goes to your screen.
How are you starting the processes? You must first be calling fork
and then calling execlp. It would be good if you explained how you
create your child processes -- show an example from your code.
Probably your child processes are getting disconnected from your tty so their
output goes nowhere. Usually this is what you want to happen and most
fork/exec examples will do this. ... On the other hand, the very simplest
fork/exec should cause your child processes to use the
same stdout as the parent. Since you are not seeing this it makes me
suspect that your code is doing something extra to prevent this.

Yours,
Noah


From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 11:27:12 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:27:12 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com><mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org><eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com><mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org><fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com><mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<1059vfeseubq59d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <77mb501b5t968tnpn2tuk5vltprc5g642m@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:49:08 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>news:rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc at 4ax.com...
>>
>> I *would* like to do something about numbers and strings and other
>> shared objects not getting updated, because that is going to be hard
>> to explain.  Maybe we could somehow switch off the generation of
>> shared objects for modules in a 'debug' mode.
>
>It doesn't matter if numbers and strings get updated. They're
>immutable objects, so one copy of a number is as good as
>another. In fact, that poses a bit of a problem since quite
>a few of them are singletons. There's only one object that
>is an integer 1 in the system, so if the new version changes
>it to, say 2, and you go around and rebind all references to
>1 to become references to 2, you might have a real mess
>on your hands.

The immutability of numbers and strings is referring only to what you
can do via executable statements.  If you use a text editor on the
original source code, clearly you can change any "immutable".

You do raise a good point, however, about the need to avoid changing
*all* references to a shared object.  The ones that need to change are
those that were created via a reference to an earlier version of the
reloaded module.

>On the other hand, if you don't rebind the ones that came out
>of the original version of the module, you've got a different
>mess on your hands.

True.

-- Dave



From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 26 11:48:17 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:48:17 -0700
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
	<988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>
	<a3m560hct5ria1cqn27noipmishfpbu8qf@4ax.com>
	<pr766090m2v0i5t1108b92nbtk38u540l8@4ax.com>
	<1fl660532t2rffk3f7klh4g1ei9rnhi3p9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6oj860t65n3lmqp3aurigkl12hb1a6lknm@4ax.com>


>>>[Stephen Horne]:
>>>What I might use is something like...
>>>
>>>  pragma printoptions ( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' ) :
>>>    print "whatever"
>>>    print "something else"
>>>
>>>...as a general way of providing standard-behaviour-overriding flags
>>>for built-ins.
>>
>>[David MacQuigg]:
>>I like this.  It keeps the basic syntax of the print statement clean.
>>It avoids a lot of typing in situations where there is a repetition of
>>the same 'decoration' on many statemtents.  The main drawback I see is
>>that in many situations, the modifcation is 'one time only'.  Then we
>>have *three* statements instead of one. ( We need a statement to
>>restore the default printoptions.)

>[Stephen Horne]:
>No, we need two statements. There is no need to restore the default
>printoptions - only to dedent out of the block where the non-default
>printoptions are set. The implementation would have printoptions in a
>stack structure, so the most recent override can always be easily
>referenced.
>
>The two-line format for isolated prints needing non-default options
>isn't too bad as it would be a struggle to keep such print statements
>on one line in practical cases anyway.
>
>The biggest problem would be the case where there are prints dotted
>throughout the code which all use the same nondefault options. And
>even then, you could probably use something like...
>
>  pragma printoptions ( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' ) :
>    main_program_call ()

[David MacQuigg]:
This last example takes care of the case where *every* print statement
needs the same options.  I think what is more likely is having only
*some* print statements that need, for example, to be redirected to a
special file.  Those statements are not likely to be neatly grouped,
so we will have to set a 'pragma' block on each one.

There may also be some objection to the fact that this use of
indentation (setting options) is inconsistent with every other use
(controlling program flow).

>>Using the "common-symbol-for-a statement-extension" syntax, we could
>>modify multiple statements without too much clutter using something
>>like:
>>
>>opts = printoptions( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' )
>>print @(opts) "whatever"
>>print @(opts) "something else"
>
>OK - this certainly has advantages. But it assumes that the only way
>to extend a print statement would be to accept some kind of attributes
>from a specified object.
>
>If you're really doing named extensions, that should be...
>
>  opts = printoptions( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' )
>  print @(printoptions: opts) "whatever"
>
>Otherwise, your standard extensions symbol isn't standard - it is used
>to do different things in different contexts, as its use to apply
>decorators in def is fundamentally different to its use to apply
>printoptions in print.

The common concept is "syntax extension".  This could be options in a
print statement ( print @opts ... ), decorators in a function def (
def f(x,y) @decs : ... ) or modifying the meaning of a return
statement in a generator ( @return ).  With options and decorators we
have some additional commonality.  In both these contexts, the @
symbol says "Look next for an object, or a tuple of objects meaningful
to this particular statement."  In both cases we define that object
ourselves, and give it a name meaningful in our particular program.

squeeze = printoptions( separator = None )
noLF    = printoptions( terminator = None )
print @squeeze x, y, z
...
print @noLF x, y, z

If either of these print statements is a "one-time-only", we could
stick the printoptions directly after the @ symbol.  The token
following the @ symbol in a print statement is either a 'printoptions'
object, or just the keyword parameters used to construct such an
object.  This dual syntax is used, for example in functions which can
accept a filename or a file object.

>Alternately, instead of allowing your symbol to handle any new
>extension syntax, it could just handle one syntax - applying
>nonstandard options. In this case, the decorators example might become
>something like...
>
>  def name (args) @{ "decorators" : [deco1, deco2, deco3]} :
>    pass
>
>Or, for convenience...
>
>  opts = { "decorators" : [deco1, deco2, deco3]}
>
>  def name (args) @opts :
>    pass
>
>Actually, I quite like this. I suspect that pretty much any extension
>to a statement could be handled using a set of named options stored in
>a dictionary.

It's even broader than that.  Dictionaries or other special objects
could be associated with @ in certain statements.  In others, like
using @ to introduce a nameless function, no special objects are
needed.  We need not even put @ at the beginning of a keyword or
object to be modified.  What if instead of 'yield' we used 'return@',
meaning "This is a normal return, except that execution will resume on
the next call, right here after the return."  I'm not saying this has
any advantage over @return, just illustrating the flexibility in not
assigning any unecessary meaning or syntax to @.

>I'm still scratching my head a little, but at least now I know that I
>was confused ;-)

Aren't we all.  It is fun, however, discussing ideas about the perfect
language.  This is the best time to do it, while we are learning the
language. Later, we will forget the problems we had in learning.  I've
already forgotten the hassle with 'self', but it is interesting to do
a Google search on "group:comp.lang.python insubject:self"  1080 hits
!!  This is a problem which won't go away.  Also one that could have
been solved with a special symbol, but if you want to get into that
discussion, I'll have to post under a different name. :>)

-- Dave



From news at loorimar.com  Mon Mar 29 15:31:04 2004
From: news at loorimar.com (Sebastian Knoop-Troullier)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:31:04 -0800
Subject: Python2.3 on RedHat 7.3
Message-ID: <ur1h60taai7v91m15n436im28bjk8pg2qg@4ax.com>

I'm having a lot of trouble with Python2.3 on Redhat 7.3
As this is a requirement for the new unstable versions of TMDA I am
trying to get this up and running. Is anybody else running
Python2.3 on RedHat 7.3? I am unable to find an RPM that will install
on my RedHat.

I run into the following scenario described in the Python FAQ. I know
this is probably a little off-topic and should go into a Python list
but I figured maybe somebody here has come across the same problem:

Q) I'm trying to build the RPMS, but I get: 
RPM build errors:
    File not found by glob:
/var/tmp/python2.3-2.3.3-root/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so*
A) You need to have the Tk development package installed. This package
is usually called "tk-devel", and can be obtained from the same place
that you normally find packages for your system. 

My problem is that I cannot find a tk-devel package for RedHat 7.3
either. This has been haunting me for a few days now ;)

-Sebastian




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar 15 11:08:53 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:08:53 -0500
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c34kel$3mt$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jess Austin" <jaustin at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3 at posting.google.com...
> hi,
>
> I like the way that Python does lists, and I love the way it does
> iterators.  But I've decided I don't like what it does with iterators
> of lists.  Lists are supposed to be mutable sequences,

and they are.

> but try to use an iterator of a list that you're mutating
> and watch it all fall to pieces.

Replacing items, which is by far the most common need, works fine.

> That is, if you change the length of a section of the list
> through which the iterator has already passed, it will lose track of
> where it is.

Same is true of dicts.  The limitation is documented.  The need is
relatively rare.  There are several alternatives, usually better.

1. make a copy and iterate through that.
2. create a new object as you iterate (for deletes only, use filter to do
this)
3. make a list of desired edits (something like your _mutations list) and
apply that *after* the iteration to do all the edits at once.

Note that filter is O(n) timewise.  Simply deleting items in place and
closing up the gap, one at a time, as your approach would appear to do, is
O(n**2).  Applying an edit list in a batch after the initial scan may also
be O(n) for typical cases.

4. Actually, for deletion (filtration) in place, there *is* an O(n) single
scan method.  The secret is to *not* change the length of the list while
iterating but to merely move kept objects to the end of a 'kept' section of
the list (using two indexes) and then truncate the list (deleting the now
unneeded tail) *after* the scan.

5. For insertion while scanning, use an index var in a while loop and bump
up the index after doing insertions.  But notice again that this can make
for an O(n**2) algorithm and it might really be better to make a list of
slices and then paste them together in a separate post-scan batch process.

6.  Or, insert a large empty slice (hopefully large enough to accomodate
the net expansion) at the front of the list before starting and then copy
and insert into the empty space as you scan.  (This is a generalization of
the deletion algorithm, 4.)  If you run out of room due to an initial
underestimate, make another large insertion.  Truncate after if there is
leftover space at the end.

Bottom line: because of the O(n**2) trap, insertion and deletion are
trickier than mere replacement.

>  I think this should be fixed for 2.4.  I'm not sure if
> this is a bug or a PEP, so I'd like to hear from others on this
> newsgroup.

The listobject.c code is being reworked to make common list operations
quite noticeably faster.  A slowdown to enable doing something that is
better done elsewise will not be accepted.  In most cases, the limitation
protects people from making a bad algorithm choice.

Terry J. Reedy






From jayoconnor at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 23 07:42:43 2004
From: jayoconnor at earthlink.net (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:42:43 GMT
Subject: Shameless OT Plug
Message-ID: <7hW7c.35039$%06.4287@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

I've set up a web site for musicians and music listeners.  It's still undergoing 
a low of development and cosmetic changes, but it is functional.

Coda - http://www.r4h-music.com/coda

THe only connection here, all the dynamic parts are written in Python

Take care,
Jay



From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 12:40:30 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:40:30 +0000
Subject: root password in a .py script
Message-ID: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>

>This is not a good idea...

Yes, I know it isn't. It's not very graceful at all, but I must do it. 
Whether I use a baseball bat from a distance of 1 meter to strike a computer 
monitor or use a sniper rifle from 400 meters away to shoot the monitor, the 
result is the same. Currently, this is a kludge (the baseball bat 
approach)... I'm trying to make it more graceful.

>
>What is preventing you from prompting for the password on execution?

The script must run automaticly/programmaticly on 200 machines.

>
>---
>Dallas S. Mahrt
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bart Nessux [mailto:bart_nessux at hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:12 AM
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: root password in a .py script
> >
> >
> > I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is
> > there a way to
> > encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing
> > the file, but
> > when the sting is used it's decoded? For example:
> >
> > pass = "#$%^&@*#&*$^@"
> > instead of:
> > pass = "root-password"
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bart
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

_________________________________________________________________
One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? download MSN Toolbar now! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 31 08:04:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:04:52 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.155.1080705831.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4eflk$l9e$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Adelein and Jeremy wrote:

> (JH)> Using the same variable name with only difference in
> (JH)> capitalization I consider very bad taste. I would suggest using
> (JH)> for instance the variable name 'default_fortunes_file' instead
> (JH)> of FORTUNES_FILE.
> 
> I am inclined to agree with you in general, but as I am in the habit
> of treating my default values as constants (all-caps), I have also
> developed the habit of naming their variable counterparts with the
> same words, but lowercase. My rationale was that the two names
> represent exactly the same idea, but in different circumstances. I am
> of the opinion that even better than this, and better than your
> suggested change, is to just use the same identifier to begin with.

I'm with you here.

> 
>> > fp_entry = [0]
>> 
> (JH)> You probably want to start with an *empty* list, not a list
> (JH)> with '0' as the first element, i.e.
> (JH)>
> (JH)> fp_entry = []
> 
> In fact, I did intend to have 0 as the first element. My thinking is
> thus: the first entry in the fortunes file is not preceded by a '%',
> and therefore will not be found by the code that follows unless I
> include 0 as one of the possible fp values. I do not know perl, and
> am not an experienced programmer, so in thinking that this was the
> reason for ESR's similar use, I may be proceeding from a position of
> ignorance.
 
I think you're right again.

> (PO)> Make it a rule to catch something, e. g.
> (PO)>
> (PO)> try:
> (PO)>    ...
> (PO)> except IOError:
> (PO)>    ...
> (PO)>
> (PO)> That reduces the chance that an unexpected error is mapped to
> (PO)> something else.
> 
> I am sure that many would say that this is too simple and little a
> script to be doing much exception handling beyond basics, but I am
> glad you saw the intent of my request.
> 
> So if I am understanding correctly, I want to do the following:
> 
> try:
>     fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
> except IOError:
>     sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)
> 
> Out of curiosity, what else could the error be mapped to, and how
> does that work, or where can I go to read up on such issues? Also, in
> this particular case, where I am simply exiting the program with an
> error message, could the error possibly be mapped to anything else,
> and if so, would it really matter?

A wrong error message may be worse than no error message. Consider

try:
   fi = open(fortune_file)
except:
    sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)

That might mislead you to look for problems with the file while it's just an
ordinary spelling error.

>> > # Return fp to beginning of file, close the file, and exit
>> program
>> > fi.seek(0,0)
>> 
> (PO)> Code has no effect. I would remove it.
> 
> This has no effect because once the program exits, the file pointer
> dies, or for another reason?

You can think of seek() for a readonly file as positioning a pointer to the
start of the next read() operation. As no more reads will follow, such a
repositioning is useless.

>> > fi.close()
>> > sys.exit()
>> 
> (PO)> No need to call sys.exit() here.
> (PO)>
> (PO)> My impression is that you are messing with file "pointers" too
> (PO)> much which I would consider rather low-level. For C this is OK
> (PO)> as it has no decent support for strings, but in Python I would
> (PO)> suggest to relax and process the whole file as a string or list
> (PO)> of lines.
> 
> You are correct. My intention was to perform a direct Perl to Python
> translation from a slightly modified version of ESR's script. Since I
> am not very well-acquainted with Perl, this alone caused me a bit of
> headache.
> 
> However, this raises new questions for me. Reading the file into a
> data structure (whatever that structure may be) seems to be good for
> two reasons: 1) I needn't keep the file open for longer than
> necessary, and 2) less time is wasted waiting for I/O to access the
> file. 

As you can see from Mel Wilson's code, 
3) it also greatly simplifies your program, which means it will be less
errorprone and take less time to write and less time to understand for
others. Also, I expect it to be the fastest for small files - and the size
so called "small" files is still growing fast these days.

> But the way I have it also reads the pertinent parts of the
> file into a data structure, and then processes those. Because I am
> not processing the file, and because I need not read the whole file
> contents in, I thought that this method of using file pointers would
> be more efficient. What do you think? Also, my thinking is that the
> file that this script works on may be very large. At what point do
> the memory requirements of reading the contents of all of those files
> into a structure outweigh the read I/O access times for retrieving
> all relevant possible file pointer positions and then reading once
> more to find that one fp position, and if it ever does, is not a more
> scalable approach to use file pointer positions from the start?

Yes, Mel's approach is the least scalable (it keeps the whole file),
followed by yours (keeps a list of positions for every items). Mine is best
in that regard :-), because it only keeps two items (reducing that to one
is left as an exercise...) at any time.
But if you really need performance and many entries, I'd guess that putting
the items into a database would defeat them all.

> (MW)> Or I could see (untested code)
> (MW)>
> (MW)> import random, sys
> (MW)>
> (MW)> def fortunes (infile):
> (MW)>     return infile.read().split ('\n%\n')
> (MW)>
> (MW)> def findfortune (filename):
> (MW)>     return random.choice (fortunes (file (filename, 'rt'))
> (MW)>
> (MW)> if __name__ == '__main__':
> (MW)>     print findfortune (sys.argv[1])
> 
> This is impressive for its brevity, but my question about the memory
> efficiency of storing the entire contents of large files applies.
> Also, what is 'tr' in the arguments list for file()? I looked up
> file() in the library reference and it doesn't mention t - only a, b,
> r, w, +, and U. A typo, or something I am unaware of?

t translates "\r\n" to "\n" on windows. I think this is superseded by "U"
these days, which guarantees "\n" as newline on windows, unix and mac
alike.

> (PO)> That's what I meant with "in Python I would suggest to relax
> (PO)> and process the whole file as a string or list of lines" in my
> (PO)> above post.
> 
> (PO)> Here's a different approach that reads fortunes one at a time
> (PO)> with a generator function that collects lines until it
> (PO)> encounters a "%\n". I'm using an algorithm to choose a random
> (PO)> fortune that was posted on c.l.py by Paul Rubin....
> (PO)>
> (PO)> import random, sys
> (PO)>
> (PO)> def fortunes(infile):
> (PO)>     """ Yield fortunes as lists of lines """
> (PO)>     result = []
> (PO)>     for line in infile:
> (PO)>         if line == "%\n":
> (PO)>             yield result
> (PO)>             result = []
> (PO)>         else:
> (PO)>             result.append(line)
> (PO)>     if result:
> (PO)>         yield result
> (PO)>
> (PO)> def findfortune(filename):
> (PO)>     """ Pick a random fortune from a file """
> (PO)>     for index, fortune in enumerate(fortunes(file(filename))):
> (PO)>         if random.random() < (1.0 / (index+1)):
> (PO)>             chosen = fortune
> (PO)>
> (PO)>     return "".join(chosen)
> (PO)>
> (PO)> if __name__ == "__main__":
> (PO)>     print findfortune(sys.argv[1]),
> 
> The randomization in findfortune() is interesting and would never
> have occurred to me. The problem with it (as I see it - I could be
> wrong) is that it results in a sub-pseudo random choice, as I can
> easily imagine that entries towards the end of a large file will be
> much less likely to be chosen due to the randomizer being applied not
> to a set but to each element of the set, and because a positive for
> any element means that none of the following elements are considered
> for randomization, the result could well be that some entries will
> effectively never be chosen.

You are getting this wrong. I hoped to evade the explanation by providing
the reference, but now I'll give it a try. You can prove the right outcome
by induction, but I'll resort to "proof by example" for now.
Let's consider a small sample 

for index, item in enumerate(["a", "b", "c", "d"]):
    if random() < (1.0/(index+1)):
        chosen = item

random() yields a floating point number 0 <= n < 1.0

Now let's unroll the loop:

if random() <1.0/1 : chosen = "a" #index is 0, item is "a"
if random() <1.0/2 : chosen = "b" #index is 1, item is "b"
if random() <1.0/3 : chosen = "c" #index is 1, item is "c"
if random() <1.0/4 : chosen = "d" #index is 1, item is "d"

The probability for the if branches to be executed is thus
decreasing: 1, 0.5, 0.33, 0.25.
Now look at it backwards: The chance that d is chosen is 0.25, the total
probability for a, b, or c is then 1-0.25 = 0.75. When we now look at the
first three lines only, we see immediately that the chance for c is one
third. 1/3 of 75 percent is again 0.25. The remaining probability for a and
b is then p(a or b) = 1 - p(c) - p(d) = 0.5. Now look at the first two
lines only to distribute the total probability of 0.5 over a and b. Do you
see the pattern?

> 
> (PO)> The point of my solution is to never have (a) the whole file in
> (PO)> memory and (b) to make a random choice from a set of
> (initially)
> (PO)> unknown size while you go through it.
> 
> This is a very interesting solution in light of point (b), but of
> course I will always know the size of the set as long as it comes
> from a file. 

Again, you have to build a list of positions, with size proportional to the
file, I only keep the last fortune item, essentially constant size.

> As for point (a), in the case that the last entry of a
> file is chosen, wouldn't the whole file then have been in memory at
> the same time, or do values returned by generators die right after
> their use? 

That is up to the garbage collection; I'm working with the assumption that
unreachable data, i. e. previously read lines are garbage-collected in a
timely manner.

> In addition, simply opening the file puts its entire
> contents into memory, does it not? (So this runs counter to what I
> said about I/O access times for opened files - please set me straight
> one way or the other; are file objects created with their contents
> loaded into memory, or do their contents remain in storage until
> needed?)

The operating system and Python may both perform some caching as they see
fit, but conceptually (and practically at least for large files - they can
still be larger than your RAM after all) they are *not* read into memory.

Peter



From james at ractive.ch  Wed Mar  3 09:32:57 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:32:57 +0100
Subject: Replace text with value form dictionary (regexp)
References: <c24ouh$i92$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c24qar$j6k$1@newshispeed.ch>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:

> I want to implement a small templating system where values in angle
> brackets should be replaced by the corresponding dicitionary value
> ("foo {x} bar" -> "foo 10 bar");
>
>>>> d = {}
>>>> d["x"] = 10
>>>> p = re.compile('{ ( [^}]* ) }', re.VERBOSE)
>>>> p.sub(r'd["\1"]','foo {x} bar')
> 'foo d["x"] bar'
>
> How can I now put the actual value of d["x"] into the string 'foo
> d["x"] bar'?

I have this solution now:
    import re

    d = {}
    d["x"] = 10
    d["y"] = "20"

    def repl(matchobj):
     return str(d[matchobj.group(2)])

    p = re.compile('({ ([^}]*) })', re.VERBOSE)
    print p.sub(repl, 'foo {x} bar {y} gugu')

Any better solutions?


Regards

James




From allena29 at elsol.zwan  Fri Mar 12 14:50:44 2004
From: allena29 at elsol.zwan (allena29 at elsol.zwan)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:50:44 +0000
Subject: py2exe distribution wants internet access (DNS)
References: <40503ec2$0$77271$abc4f4c3@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<jql250tl0r7vure6sv36gvd6hibovt0p7r@4ax.com>
	<4051aa40$0$49819$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.12.19.50.44.856106@elsol.zwan>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:17:08 +0100, Otto Kr?se wrote:

> My hypothesis:
> When my program wants to connect with the MySQL dBase it sends a message
> to the DNS to ask where it can find the MySQL server. DNS doesn't know it
> so the program then checks locally and finds the MySQL server and connects
> with it. However, if I block access to the DNS it will not find the local
> server any more, this is strange I think.... In fact I don't want my
> prgram to talk with a DNS, I want it to check for local servers only.

How about the line of code where you connect to the mysql server (i.e.
what IP are you using).

Regards,
Adam


From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Mar 10 18:02:27 2004
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:02:27 -0600
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <104v7kaf2938v34@corp.supernews.com>

> @x @y @z  -- short for instance variables in a method definition

This is completely unnecessary.  Leo uses the following convention:

def whatever(self):
  v = self
  v.whatever

The assignment v = self (or x = self etc.) indicates the expected type of
self and saves keystrokes.  This convention has been useful in refactorings
when moving methods from one class to another: all that had to be done is to
change the v = self line to something else.

BTW, it would also be possible to define the function as follows:

def whatever(v):
  v.whatever

However, this isn't proper Python style and Pychecker complains.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Tue Mar 23 20:44:38 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:44:38 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <6ZydnUx5GLGadf3dRVn-sw@speedfactory.net>

Further, Python 2.3.2 has the same problem, but with 8.3 in place of 8.4
throughout.


"Michael A. Covington" <look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address> wrote
in message news:PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw at speedfactory.net...
> On the trail of figuring out why IDLE won't launch, look at this:
>
> Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import Tkinter
> >>> Tkinter._test()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 3640, in _test
>     root = Tk()
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
>     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
> _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
> directories:
>     {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.4
> C:/Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library
> This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> >>>
>
>
> Here \WN16 is where *another* TCL/TK application *used* to reside.  And
the
> TCL stuff definitely *does* exist under C:\Python23\tcl\tcl8.4 (not
> lib\tcl8.4).
>
> By default does Python 2.3.3 install itself incorrectly???!!
>
>
>
>




From dlee at rightnow.com  Fri Mar 19 13:21:10 2004
From: dlee at rightnow.com (Lee, Dustin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:21:10 -0700
Subject: using a proxy with urllib2
Message-ID: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E01@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>

I'm using python2.2.2 on redhat linux 7.3

Here's a snippet of what I'm trying to run:

# set up proxy
import urllib2
proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http":"http://webproxy.mycompany.com:3128"})
#proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler()
opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support)
urllib2.install_opener(opener)
f = urllib2.urlopen('http://some.site.com/')
print f.read(1000)
    
This code times out and throws a socket connection error.  I've also tried setting my environment variable: http_proxy=http://webproxy.mycompany.com:3128 and using the default form of ProxyHandler.

I'm certain the proxy info is correct (and a proxy is needed) because I can use lynx to get it to work:

env http_proxy=http://webproxy.mycompany.com:3128 lynx http://some.site.com/
or
export http_proxy=http://webproxy.mycompany.com:3128 
lynx http://some.site.com/

Without the proxy info defined for lynx it won't connect to the site in question.

Any ideas what might be tripping me up?

dustin



From sunilmovva at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 10:59:48 2004
From: sunilmovva at hotmail.com (Sunil Movva)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 07:59:48 -0800
Subject: xml.minidom and threads
Message-ID: <9106c987.0403120759.6b1df015@posting.google.com>

I have an application that uses xml to communicate between threads.
One of the threads in my app creates an xml message and sends it to a
second thread. This second thread parses the message and creates a new
xml message copying most part of the first message and sends it to a
third thread. The second thread was able to parse the message, while
the third thread is not able to parse the message that it received. I
am using minidom implementation of DOM to parse the messages. I am not
validating the messages.
So, I wrote this out to a file from the third thread and am able to
parse this from a stand alone non-threaded app.
I thought it might be an encoding issue, so I converted to utf-8 and
it still does not parse it.

The error message I get is here...
  File "KQMLMessage.py", line 224, in CreateMessage
    domDoc = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(message)
  File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 967, in
parseString
    return _doparse(pulldom.parseString, args, kwargs)
  File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 954, in _doparse
    toktype, rootNode = events.getEvent()
  File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/pulldom.py", line 255, in getEvent
    self.parser.feed(buf)
  File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 149, in feed
    self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
  File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/handler.py", line 38, in
fatalError
    raise exception
SAXParseException: <unknown>:1:1: not well-formed (invalid token)

So, I came to suspect if xml.minidom module is thread-safe. 
Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

thanks,
Sunil


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sun Mar 21 19:51:57 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:51:57 -0800
Subject: Timeout on a UDP Socket
In-Reply-To: <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f@posting.google.com>
References: <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3ldh7$6cu$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> UDPSock = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_DGRAM)
> 		# Receive messages
>               data = UDPSock.recv(buf)

I believe in order to receive from a UDP socket, it must be bound to an 
address and port so that the server can actually send it somewhere.

  - Josiah


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 15 18:28:53 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:28:53 -0800
Subject: isinstance method
References: <mailman.9.1079391258.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40563C35.C6BAFD19@alcyone.com>

niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu wrote:

> I need to find out dynamically if an object is instance of a Class but
> I don't
> know how to use this isinstance buit-in function. I have the object
> and the name
> of the class, what should I do?

You want the actual class, not its name:

	isinstance(instance, Class)

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ The public is a fool.
    -- Alexander Pope


From scav at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 18:22:57 2004
From: scav at blueyonder.co.uk (Peter Harris)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:22:57 +0000
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <63Z7c.11345$A_2.690678@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<63Z7c.11345$A_2.690678@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <vz38c.757$1x2.702@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Chris Herborth wrote:

> A couple of years ago I started writing a simple tile-based game engine 
> (think overhead-view like Ultima V... actually, I was using the sprites 
> from Ultima V as textures :-) entirely in Python.
> 
> It was running at an acceptable speed even on lousy hardware (8MB ATI 
> Rage Mobility-P in my old Pentium II 233MHz laptop).
> 
> I know several commercial games, such as Freedom Force, use Python for 
> scripting, but I'm pretty sure the main engine is entirely C/C++.
> 
I'm messing about with OpenGL at the moment.  The control language
doesn't matter much for performance IMO.  If you cache complex stuff in
display lists, and make liberal use of glDrawArrays() etc, your OpenGL 
implementation is going to be doing all the heavy lifting.

And I do NOT want a long edit-compile-test cycle when I'm working that 
stuff out for the first time. Python, of course, is perfect for exploring.


Peter Harris



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 16:41:26 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:41:26 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com> <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065@fed1read04>
	<gandreas-29DDCC.09162829032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<5J1ac.64492$cx5.5801@fed1read04>
	<gandreas-437395.09254330032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <aQlac.74784$cx5.57499@fed1read04>

It is not clear to me why the complexity of named prototype paths are needed
right now, but that is not too surprising considering my inexperience with
proto-based languages like self. I will keep the options open as we learn.

It would be especially helpful if "self-aware" programmers tried some small
apps in Prothon in order to give some usage examples. (hint-hint)

"Glenn Andreas" <gandreas at no.reply> wrote in message
news:gandreas-437395.09254330032004 at news.mpls.visi.com...
> In article <5J1ac.64492$cx5.5801 at fed1read04>,
>  "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
>
> > >  So does "foo.bar = 5" add a "bar" slot to "foo" or does it change bar
in
> > the parent object?
> >
> > It took me great trouble to learn to use attribute instead of slot to
keep
> > Prothon in sync with Python.  I even had to globally replace "slot" with
> > "attr" in all my code a week ago, so I'll be replacing your use of slot
with
> > attribute.
> >
> > "foo.bar = 5" will always add an attribute bar to foo.  You have to say
> > "parent.bar = 5", or if foo is the current self object, you would say
"^bar
> > = 5".  The caret(^) prefix reads as "super" and replaces the period
prefix
> > when you want atrribute lookup to start at the parent of self instead of
at
> > self.  This was documented yesterday on the website.
> >
> > I realize that there is not currently any automatic way to change a
value
> > found by inheritance.  I'm open to suggestions.  None of the Prothon
> > features will be cast in stone until 7/04 so make your suggestions known
at
> > Prothon mailing lists.
>
> Self gets around this problem by the way it handles assignments as
> method calls, so assigning to a specific attribute/slot/ivar of a
> parent/superclass/prototype is handled like explicitly calling the
> method via a resend or directed resend.
>
> What makes this work is the fact that inheritance is handled by
> "flagging" the slot of the object as something that it inherits from, by
> having an "*" after the name, which results in inerhitance coming from
> explicitly named "paths" rather than some implicit (and usually hidden)
> "__super__" (for example).  So "parent* = anotherObject", "super* =
> anotherObject" and "proto* = anotherObject" all define "anotherObject"
> as something this object inerhits from.  As a result, it is easy to
> explicitly say "parent.foo", "super.foo", "proto.foo" to narrow down
> which thing to inherit from.
>
> Perhaps a similar thing can work for Prothon?  (i.e, explicit "named"
> inheritance instead of implicit anonymous inheritence via "^")?
>
> You could even use "^" for the default "super" (the non-directed
> resend), and then something like "^(anotherParent)" for the moral
> equivalent of a directed resend.
>
> Having named attributes/slots/ivars for inheritence also makes it easier
> to handle dynamically changing multiple inheritence prototypes on the
> fly (since you explicitly have a name for them)




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 26 19:43:07 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:43:07 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org><gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com><40634B15.1090006@zope.com>
	<mailman.439.1080284510.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1069jhuqj647f3b@news.supernews.com>


"Ronald Oussoren" <oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.439.1080284510.742.python-list at python.org...
>
> On 25-mrt-04, at 22:11, Shane Hathaway wrote:
>
> > Glenn Andreas wrote:
> >> Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing
> >> something like:
> >>    myHandlers = {
> >>       "click" : def(x,y):
> >>                      print "click at x,y"
> >>       "enter" : def():
> >>                      print "mouse entered"
> >>       "exit"  : def():
> >>                      print "mouse exited"
> >>    }
>
>
> >
> > I just thought of a better way to write this.
> >
> >     myHandlers = {}
> >     myHandlers["click"] = def(x,y):
> >         print "click at x,y"
> >     myHandlers["enter"] = def():
> >         print "mouse entered"
> >     myHandlers["exit"] = def():
> >         print "mouse exited"
> >
> > I think that's pretty nice.
>
> And how would you write in-line callbacks for functions that take
> multiple callbacks (such as an on-success and on-error handler)?

Basically the same way, as far as I can tell. The difficulty is that
the expression gets broken up the same way Glen Andreas' suggestion
does above, and you have to be a bit precise about the indentation.


I like it. By far the most common case is a single def in a statement.
It solves a problem that I've got with interactive fiction, where I
want to create a lot of functions on the module level, and then
stick them into instances (not classes.)

The uncommon case is uncommon enough (except in very specialized
environments) that I think we can accept a bit of aparently bizzare
behavior. At least, I can.

John Roth
>
> Ronald
>
>




From 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it  Mon Mar  8 05:09:44 2004
From: 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:09:44 +0100
Subject: ZSI proxy problem
In-Reply-To: <d116fbae.0311151843.7ad6ab4e@posting.google.com>
References: <3fb251d3.21252950@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
	<V1tsb.14694$hV.552484@news2.tin.it>
	<3fb2c34a.3907929@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
	<d116fbae.0311151843.7ad6ab4e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bEX2c.8544$Hl1.918@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

I've writed a complex system for a  WebServices client in ZSI.

My problem is to use this libraries for passing throw a proxy, this 
seems impossible now.

I'm the only with this problem ?
Someone has resolved this?

Thank's
Glauco

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------
<< Maccaroni! Ma 'che gli ammericani magnano i maccaroni
e bevono er  vino? Gli ammericani  magnano il toast,  la
mostarda, lo yogurt... ammazza  che schifo..
Maccarone, mi guardi? con quella faccia intrepida?
Maccarone, m'hai provocato e io me te magno!>>

                                            Alberto Sordi
--------------------------------------------------------

* glauco at uriland.it
* www.uriland.it
* ICQ: 115323690


From line_guibert-wolff at hc-sc.gc.ca  Sat Mar 13 22:50:59 2004
From: line_guibert-wolff at hc-sc.gc.ca (montezum)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:50:59 -0600
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
Message-ID: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>

where can I find Paris Hilton video?



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 10 13:04:10 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:04:10 +0100
Subject: Nice way of getting items from two lists
References: <c2njvu$qjq$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c2nlaq$n0k$00$1@news.t-online.com>

C GIllespie wrote:

> I have two equal size lists - list1, list2. Basically, each item in list 1
> has a partner in list2. I was wanting to do something like
> So if:
> list1=['x','y','z']
> list2=[1,2,3]
> 
> then if I did this 'for loop'
> for name, value in list1,list2:
>     print name, value
> 
> I would get
> x,1
> y,2
> z,3

>>> a = ["a", "b", "c"]
>>> b = [1, 2, 3]
>>> for x, y in zip(a, b):
...     print x, y
...
a 1
b 2
c 3
>>>

zip(list1, list2, ..., listN) creates a new list of N-tuples, so if you are
concerned about memory footprint, use itertools.izip() instead, which does
the zipping (nice metaphor, by the way) on the fly. 

Peter


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sat Mar 13 10:46:52 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:46:52 +0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <c2v3hn$fbg$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.358.1079189729.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <01b650lrd53rbab3uis6dlqv38u52pk0e8@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:55:08 +0000 (GMT), Premshree Pillai
<premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> --- Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote: > 
>> "Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in>
>> wrote in message
>> > Anyway, what I want is to force variable
>> declaration.
>> > In perl we have the "use strict vars" pargma...I
>> need
>> > something like that...
>> 
>> For those of us who do not know Perl, and there are
>> many, I suspect, on
>> this Python newsgroup, that means nothing ;-).
>> 
>> tjr
>> 
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 
>
>Yes. Let me explain. Perl's "strict" pragma makes sure
>that you have declared (initialized) a variable before
>using it. Nothing more to it.
>

I don't know a thing about perl, but by your description, strict
pragma is to solve a problem *in perl that does not exist in Python*.
If you use a variable before declaring (I'm using your terminology --
it's not the most correct in the Python world, though) Python just
raises an exception, e.g.

>>> #No var declared... exception raised:
>>> print var
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'var' is not defined
>>> #Declare var:
>>> var = "Declared"
>>> print var
Declared
>>> 

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Mar 24 15:42:34 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 12:42:34 -0800
Subject: py files includings each others
References: <AL48c.32121$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403241242.4e9c4b9a@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Bouillon <bouil at bouil.org.invalid> wrote:

> a.py:

> from b import Father
> class Person: ...

> b.py:

> from a import Person
> class Father(Person): ...

Person must be defined first, as Father is a subclass of it. You can't
import Father from b.py before its subclass has been defined. Moving the
import statement below the class definition for Person makes it all right.

Person can refer to 'Father' in a method def before that class gets
defined because the name won't actually be looked up until the method is
executed, long after the import stage.

Putting an import at the bottom of a file is not the norm, but it would
work in this case.

> I have more than twenty classes, with one py file per class (more clear 
> & clean)

Ah, a Java programmer! This isn't necessarily always the best thing in
Python, it's more a matter of style and compromise. In this example
grouping the dependant-classes Person and Father in the same module (in
that order) might make sense and would certainly cut down on import issues.

Another tip (that isn't relevant to this exact case) is to try to import
modules rather than members when there may be interdependency. Modules can
always be imported and their members will appear later, hopefully by the
time you need them. Directly imported members, on the other hand, must
exist at import-time. For example:

  a.py:

  import b
  c= 'frog'
  b.printC()

  b.py:

  import a
  def printC():
    print a.c

Here, the getting-c-from-a operation doesn't happen until the call to
b.printC(), after the importing stage is over, so c is in place and
'frog' is printed. On the other hand, if you wrote:

  from a import c

then the get-c-from-a operation happens before 'a' has all its members
defined, and fails.

Hope that makes some sense.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From steve at waypath.com  Mon Mar 29 18:18:53 2004
From: steve at waypath.com (Steve @ Waypath)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:18:53 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-959027.13550629032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <44-dnTPQtONpM_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>

> I think I found the problem here. I was editing in Windows, saving to a
> mounted Linux drive, running in Linux. It looks like some end-of-line
chars
> I didn't account for. I'm still having defunct trouble, but I'm going to
> split this one off into a separate thread, going back a few steps.

Donn,

Forget that separate thread. Writing in Linux, instead of Windows, and all
my spawnv problems go away. I've got enough progress here to keep me busy
for a while. I appreciate your help.

If I run into trouble again, you'll hear from me. :)

Best,
Steve




From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 30 18:51:33 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:51:33 -0000
Subject: How to make this speed up
References: <mailman.142.1080683661.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qnkptauymdq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <106k205791m5b2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <qnkptauymdq.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>,
David M. Cooke <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Use numarray or Numeric, and use arrays for your points. Also, do you
>need the distance, or will the square of the distance do? (that'll
>save you a sqrt).
>
>import numarray as NA
>
>def distance_between_points(plist):
>    # if plist was a list of N points in d dimensions, p is an array of
>size (N,d)
>    p = NA.asarray(plist)
>    N, d = p.shape
>    # dist2 is a (N,N) array of squared distance
>    dist2 = NA.zeros((N, N), type=p.type())
>    for i in range(d):
>        dist2 += NA.subtract.outer(p[:,i],p[:,i])**2
>    return NA.sqrt(dist2)
>
>This should be almost as fast as writing your own C extension (and
>much easier...)
			.
			.
			.
The "much easier" has me curious.  While I'm as insistent
as anyone about Python's universality, this is an area
where I see it with no advantage over C.  The simple-minded
C homologue requires no memory management or dereferencing,
at the source level, so it's as easy as C gets.  Are you
simply observing that, when working in Python, any require-
ment to introduce the machinery necessary for a second 
language makes the problem not easy?  Or is there another
comparison between the two that I haven't noticed?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From bscholln at mac.com  Thu Mar 11 07:25:43 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:25:43 GMT
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
References: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <110320040725438317%bscholln@mac.com>


> i need advices on this : having all files are text files, 1 is an index
> (6mo) to another big data file (20mb), i can not put that in a database and
> must work from raw files.
> 
> i've tried to design an oo interface to theses files, well, it took 10
> minutes to just load and build the whole wrapper objects (really simple
> ones - with not the full logic behind) and it tooks 446mb of memoy! ('top'
> command executed while loading to check). if i use tuples instead of objects
> it still need about 2 minutes and 240mb...
> 
> as i did not need all data in memory at a moment but only index and then
> follow to some data, please have you any clue on how i can handle this ?
> having to load only index tooks less than 1 minutes and only 60mb in memory
> which is acceptable, but if i read data directly from a disk it is
> desperatly slow...

Your probably not going to like this...

But there is only three ways to deal with something like this:

1) Read everything into memory
2) Read only as much as needed, and load the rest from disk as needed.
3) Store the data in a proper database

Now I've seen this solved, I admit, this was with a different language,
and feels like nearly a life time ago.....

But, your problem is not unsolvable...  But, it would help if we had
more details on the index file, and the main data file...

Maybe a different method of handling this would solve your issue.

For example, does the data all have to be stored in a single file?
Would using multiple indexs, and multiple storage files improve your
performance?

But those are question I can not answer...

      - Benjamin


From http  Fri Mar 19 17:22:05 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 14:22:05 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c3fcmn$r3f$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xwu5g7a0i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> > What's Random.random(self) supposed to do?
> 
> Generate a random number using the Mersenne Twister random number
> generator.

According to the Random doc, Random.random() doesn't take an argument,
so I'm asking what the "self" is for.

> >>        ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()
> > I think you mean update.
> 
> Perhaps yes, perhaps no.  Certainly the digest of both are dependant
> on two inputs (the current internal state of MD5 and the random number
> generated by MT).  However, unless you can store the series of updates
> to MD5, then getstate() followed by setstate() would not be sufficient
> to get the same series of random numbers.  This is also a "possible
> issue" shared by the double-sha algorithm.

Without the update, all that's happening is you're reading an MT output
and hashing it, so there's no secret state without some security assumption
on MT.  And the only security assumption I'm willing to make about MT
is that it's completely insecure ;-).

> > But doesn't support all the operations specified in the Random API.
> > What's up with that?
> 
> That is what the subclass was for:
>  > class MD5Random(Random):

But the methods in the superclass don't do anything to manage the state
of subclass instances.


From gatti at dsdata.it  Mon Mar 29 08:02:59 2004
From: gatti at dsdata.it (Lorenzo Gatti)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 05:02:59 -0800
Subject: [Windows] Pygtk2 incompatible with Stackless
Message-ID: <5b3fd64f.0403290502.3260fbc7@posting.google.com>

Last weekend I tried to install Pygtk2 on Windows. I succeeded
(maybe), but I discovered a likely bug.
I have Windows 2000, Python 2.3.3 (with ActivePython installed after
the normal version) and a recent Stackless 3.0 python23.dll.
I think I've chosen correct and matching versions of GTK2 (Dropline
distribution 2.2.4-2) and Pygtk2 (pygtk 2.2.0-1.win32-py2.3.exe).
I installed both in the default locations (pygtk in site-packages,
GTK2 in c:\programmi\file comuni\gtk).
Then I added c:\programmi\file comuni\gtk\lib to the PATH to load GTK2
libraries, I added %PATH% to the PYTHONPATH environment variable
(previously empty) to load the GTK libraries from Python too, and with
advice from Microsoft Dependency Walker I rearranged PATH because a
mismatched iconv.dll from ActiveTcl was loaded instead of the GTK2
one.
I had an unrelated installation problem: the pygtk initialization code
looks for directory names like "gtk-2.0" and there is one such
directory in the GTK installation. This directory is assumed to be the
pygtk installation subdirectory for GTK 2.0. Instead of hacking pygtk
I copied the files there.

After all this entertainment I could import the whole family of
modules and call pygtk.require("2.0") without errors, but I had a
surprise:

C:\>python
Python 2.3.3 Stackless 3.0 040324 (#51, Mar 24 2004, 18:07:02) [MSC
v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gtk
>>> gtk.Window()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: more keyword list entries than argument specifiers
>>>

This cryptic message comes from getargs.c and appears to be an
incorrect specification of some function in Pygtk, but it isn't.
Reverting to the normal python23.dll the result appears correct:

C:\>python
Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gtk
>>> gtk.Window()

(:540): Gtk-WARNING **: Impossibile trovare il gestore dei temi in
module_path: "wimp",
<gtk.Window object (GtkWindow) at 0x7ef030>
>>>

The only configuration difference between the two transcripts is a
replaced c:\winnt\system32\python23.dll.

Like most users, I have little need to use Stackless Python and Pygtk
at the same time, but this issue can be worth investigating for the
Stackless and/or Pygtk2 developers.

Lorenzo Gatti


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Mar  8 17:21:09 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:21:09 -0500
Subject: wx delivery queshun
In-Reply-To: <c2ipmr$ej8$7@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <221dd125.0403081332.5863daef@posting.google.com>
	<c2ipmr$ej8$7@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <404CF1D5.9030101@rogers.com>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

>sb <spam_bait101 at yahoo.com> pisze:
>  
>
>>If you write your app using wxPython & GL, how do you deliver it to
>>users on Windows? Do you expect them to
>>    
>>
<edited for brevity>

>>install python
>>install wx
>>install swig (needed to compile pyopengl)
>>install pyopengl
>>install wxpython
>>install your easy-to-use-and-install app
>>    
>>
</edited>

>use py2exe or macmillan installer
>  
>
PyOpenGL should not need to be re-compiled for every user on Win32, and 
the source distributions come with the SWIG files pre-generated. So SWIG 
isn't an issue. "wx" is part of wxPython in later versions, so again, 
not something you need to look at as a separate install.  You are 
missing PIL and Numeric, however, which you're likely using.

There are instructions on including PyOpenGL in a py2exe'd project in 
the (as you say) "FM" :) , particularly here:

    http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/documentation/py2exe.html

you'll find instructions for including PIL in py2exe projects around and 
about.  All of the others should be automagically handled by py2exe.

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar 26 14:20:08 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:20:08 -0600
Subject: mod_python exception catching,
	other repetitious per-page actions
In-Reply-To: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
References: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <20040326192008.GQ16608@unpythonic.net>

One more idea -- I don't know mod_python, but is the Publisher class
something you could subclass, to add your own behavior there instead of
in each page function?

Jeff



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Mar 20 18:36:46 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:36:46 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040321101820.F32257@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Jon Perez wrote:

> Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
> apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
> to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
> files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
> JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.
>
> Perhaps one day .pyc files can work in such a manner.

Perhaps.

However there is a clear differentiation between Java and Python
in this area:
- Java has always been specified in terms of the language and a
  virtual machine design (which implies a portable binary form files for
  executables - jar files);
- Python has always been specified in terms of the language, with a
  portable reference interpreter implementation for that language (which
  just happens to compile to bytecode, and save that bytecode to disk
  as an optimisation).

IOW, the bytecode is an implementation detail for _one_ interpreter
implementation.

This becomes obvious when you consider the possibilities associated
with Jython, which could (already does?) compile Python source to jar
files directly.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From ekoome at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 11:03:58 2004
From: ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 08:03:58 -0800
Subject: wxDirDialog
References: <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07@posting.google.com>
	<c35la1$sdi$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <b0457a31.0403160803.5bb76b86@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c35la1$sdi$2 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > How does one use wxDirDialog to select and get a computer name from the network?
> > 
> > Or which widget should i use to accomplish this?
> 
> If you are in Windows, check the Network Neighborhood.  If you are on 
> any other platform, I don't know.
> 
> I have never tried to select a file on a computer through network 
> neighborhood, so don't know if you get what you want (something like 
> \\computername\service\path\file ) or not.
> 
>   - Josiah

What i meant is that i can select a file over the network but i need
to select the computer name only  e.g. homepc, fileserver, etc over 
the network.

DO i need to use python win32 API?
Eric


From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Sat Mar 13 07:10:27 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:10:27 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <tyfy8q63trv.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <67efcd4ccaf87ddf3c640aad5517017a@news.teranews.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:07:50 +0000 (GMT), Premshree Pillai
<premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
>Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
>so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
>vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is there
>something like it in Python?

No, but you can use pychecker to get similar results.

>Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
>important requirement in a language?

Not really.  Forced variable initialization is what's important.
Unlike C, et al, and Perl, variables don't have a default 
initial value.  If you try reference a variable that hasn't been
initialized ("bound to a value", in python lingo), python raises a
NameError exception.

    --dang
p.s.
I know technically Perl initializes to 'undef', but it's magically
treated as 0 or an empty string, depending on context, so the
effect is much the same.


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 17:10:56 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:10:56 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<258fd9b8.0403301151.179e9190@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Rfmac.74872$cx5.43872@fed1read04>


"Magnus Lyck?" <magnus at thinkware.se> wrote in message
news:258fd9b8.0403301151.179e9190 at posting.google.com...
> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > * A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
> >    wouldn't go amiss. Having to say
> >
> >      Thing = Base()
> >      with Thing:
> >         ...
> >
> >    every time I want to define a class (oops, sorry, prototype)
> >    would drive me batty.
>
> What about just combining it to this?
>
> with Thing = Base():
>     ...




From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Wed Mar 17 18:50:24 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:50:24 +0100
Subject: Unicode and UrlEncode!
References: <ba129ce7.0403171512.8a276d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3aop6$6kf$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Bonsoir !

Effectivement, j'ai fait des essais, et, d?s qu'il y a un accent, ?a
accroche.
Par contre, j'ai une fonction qui enl?ve les accents, et, alors, plus de
probl?me.


--
@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
site : http://mclaveau.com






From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Fri Mar 26 11:08:12 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:08:12 +0100
Subject: strptime in 2.3.3 
Message-ID: <OFFFF722D1.CD99E45B-ONC1256E63.0056A89A@lbbw.sko.de>


> Andy writes:
> Folks,
>
> I am parsing a list of directories that have a name format
> 'YearWeekNoDay', using the follwoing code
>
>             print list dir[j]
>             print "%s" % (time.strptime (list dir[j], '%Y%U%w'))
>             ttuple = time.strptime (list dir[j], '%Y%U%w')
>             year   = ttuple[0]
>             month  = ttuple[1]
>             day    = ttuple[2]
>             print day, month, year
>
> I get the following output:
>
> 2004123
> (2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, -1)
> 1 1 2004
>
> 2004124
> (2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, -1)
> 1 1 2004
>
> ====
>
> Are you sure you are using the correct format string?
> %U is week number of year [00-53], so I am not sure what happens
> if you combine that with a day of month that surely is not in this week..
>
> Cheers
>  Holger
>

%w (lower case) is day of the week 0 (Sunday) to 6
============
Andy,
you are right, of course. I misread your posting - sorry.
I looked in the source code and this is how I understand it:
Funny as it is, python 2.3.3 strptime simply ignores the %U part in the
format string.
The strptime handling is actually done in lib/_strptime.py, not by the C
strptime function
from time.h any more. Alas, there is no %U handling in there!

You could patch _strptime.py in the following way to reactivate %U
functionality:

$ diff -u -1  _strptime.py.orig _strptime.py
--- _strptime.py.orig   Fri Mar 26 16:44:47 2004
+++ _strptime.py        Fri Mar 26 16:33:18 2004
@@ -434,2 +434,3 @@
     weekday = julian = -1
+    weeknr_set = False
     found_dict = found.groupdict()
@@ -506,3 +507,11 @@
                 tz = 1
-
+        elif group_key == 'U':
+            # if julian is set just ignore the week number
+            if julian == -1:
+                # set the julian number to be in the week with given
number
+                julian = 1 + (int(found_dict['U']) - 1) * 7
+                weeknr_set = True
+                if weekday == -1:
+                    weekday = 0 # set default to 0 (Monday)
+
     # Cannot pre-calculate datetime_date() since can change in Julian
@@ -517,2 +526,10 @@
         datetime_result = datetime_date.fromordinal((julian - 1) +
datetime_date(year, 1, 1).toordinal())
+        if weeknr_set:
+            # correct julian to be the given weekday (which defaults to 0)
+            julian += weekday - datetime_result.weekday()
+            if julian < 1:
+                # ignore negative values, stay in the current year
+                julian = 1
+            datetime_result = datetime_date.fromordinal((julian - 1) +
datetime_date(year, 1, 1).toordinal())
+
         year = datetime_result.year

Note:
Behaviour differs a bit from the results you get with e.g. the python 1..5.2
version.
Since %U expects a 0 for Sunday,..., 6 for Monday, but the week numbering
works differently
(at least in the calendar on my table :
>>>
>>> time.strptime("2004 2 0", "%Y %U %w") # 0 for %U is Sunday
(2004, 1, 11, 0, 0, 0, 6, 11, -1)
>>> time.strptime("2004 2 0", "%Y %U %w") # 0 for %U is Sunday --> Sunday
in week 2, 2004 is Jan. 11
(2004, 1, 11, 0, 0, 0, 6, 11, -1)
>>> time.strptime("2004 2 1", "%Y %U %w") # 1 for %U is Monday --> Monday
in week 2, 2004 is Jan. 5
(2004, 1, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, -1)
>>>

But this can be easily changed to behave like pre-2.3.3 strptime.

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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 17 10:59:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:59:06 -0600
Subject: destructuring tuple and list
In-Reply-To: <8dad5312.0403162334.435de9c6@posting.google.com>
References: <8dad5312.0403162334.435de9c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040317155906.GJ2446@unpythonic.net>

This feature has been requested before, and will probably be requested
again.  However, I believe that Guido has stated he doesn't plan to add
it.

In the meantime, it's possible to do this:

>>> from slicer import slicer
>>> s = (3, 4, 5, 6)
>>> x, y, tail = slicer[0,1,...](s)
>>> print x, y, tail
3 4 (5, 6)

I just coded the module up, but I'm confident that it at least passes
its test suite.

I don't know whether
    slicer(s)[0,1,...]
or  
    slicer[0,1....](s)
is the better syntax.  Either is possible, but I happened to write the
first.  This means that you could write
    get_mode_size = slicer[stat.ST_MODE, stat.ST_SIZE]
    for f in files:
        info[f] = get_mode_size(os.stat(f))

Jeff
-------------- next part --------------
__all__ = ['slicer']

import sys

SliceType = type(slice(0))

class Slicer:
    """slicer[x1, x2, ..., xn](seq)
Slice and index seq according to the given xi.  Returns an iterator.

If xi is an iteger or a slice, then the i'th item returned by the
generator is seq[xi].  If it is an ellipsis, then it returns the items
between the end of xi-1 and the start of xi+1.  If x1 is ellipsis, then
the first item is seq[0], and if xn is ellipsis then the last item is
seq[-1].

>>> l = range(10)
>>> l13, l5, rest = slicer[1:3, 5, ...](l)
>>> print l13, l5, rest
[1, 2] 5 [6, 7, 8, 9]

See the body of slicer.test() for more examples."""

    def __getitem__(self, i):
        if isinstance(i, (list, tuple)):
            i = tuple(i)
        else:
            i = (i,)
        return Slices(i)
slicer = Slicer()

def upper_bound(s):
    if isinstance(s, SliceType):
        if s.step is None or s.step > 0:
            return s.stop
        else:
            return s.start+1
    else:
        if s == -1: return sys.maxint
        return s+1

def lower_bound(s):
    if isinstance(s, SliceType):
        if s.step is None or s.step > 0:
            return s.start
        else:
            return s.stop+1
    else:
        return s

class Slices:
    def __init__(self, slices):
        self.slices = slices
    def __call__(self, seq):
        last_upper_bound = 0
        saw_ellipsis = False
        for s in self.slices:
            if s is Ellipsis:
                if saw_ellipsis:
                    raise ValueError, "Cannot have two consecutive Ellipsis"
                saw_ellipsis = True
                continue
            if saw_ellipsis:
                yield seq[last_upper_bound:lower_bound(s)]
                saw_ellipsis = False
            if isinstance(s, SliceType) and s.step is None:
                yield seq[s.start:s.stop]
            else:
                yield seq[s]
            last_upper_bound = upper_bound(s)
        if saw_ellipsis:
                yield seq[last_upper_bound:]

def test():
    l = range(10)

    # Test that ellipsis takes the whole list
    m = list(slicer[...](l))
    print m
    assert m == [l]

    # Test that slicer works right in the middle of the list
    m = list(slicer[0:3, ..., -3:](l))
    print m
    assert m == [[0,1,2], [3,4,5,6], [7,8,9]]

    # Test that slicer gets single items correctly
    m = list(slicer[1, ..., 5](l))
    print m
    assert m == [1, [2,3,4], 5]

    # Test that slicer gets single items (negative indices)
    m = list(slicer[-3, ..., -1](l))
    print m
    assert m == [7, [8], 9]

    # Test that slicer gets stepped slices right
    m = list(slicer[0:5:2, ...](l))
    print m
    assert m == [[0,2,4], [5,6,7,8,9]]

    # Test that slicer gets negative stepped slices right
    m = list(slicer[5:0:-2, ...](l))
    print m
    assert m == [[5,3,1], [6,7,8,9]]

    # Test that slicer gets negative stepped slices right (part 2)
    m = list(slicer[..., 9:6:-2](l))
    print m
    assert m == [[0,1,2,3,4,5,6], [9,7]]

    # Test that slicer gets empty ... right
    m = list(slicer[9, ..., 0](l))
    print m
    assert m == [9, [], 0]

    # Test that slicer gets empty ... right (slice version)
    m = list(slicer[0:5, ..., 5:10](l))
    print m
    assert m == [[0,1,2,3,4], [], [5,6,7,8,9]]

if __name__ == '__main__': test()

From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 05:05:11 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problem processing Chinese character with Python
Message-ID: <20040306100511.42005.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>

Andrew gave me a sample code with let me read a text
file sentence by sentence.

Suppose I just wanna read the part between 2 full
stops each time.

It works nicely with English text files, where the
full stop is a dot (.).  

But when I tried to read Chinese text files, I found
that it sometimes reads a few sentences at one time.

I guess the reason is that in Chinese, the full stop
is not a dot (.), but a little circle, as many of you
probably know.  

Indeed, if I replace the Chinese full stop with the
dot.  It nicely gets only one sentence each time.

So, how should I fix this problem?  I am really having
headache processing Chinese characters with Python.

Here is the sample code that Andrew offered:

def bytes(f):
    # Below: f.read(2) to process Chinese
    for byte in iter(lambda: f.read(1), ''):
        yield byte

def sentences(iterable):
    sentence = ''
    for char in iterable:
        sentence += char
        # The little cirlce is the Chinese
        # full stop. Some of might not be able
        # view it if you don't have
        # east Asian language support.
        if char in ('&#12290;','.'):
            yield sentence.strip()
            sentence = ''
    sentence = sentence.strip()
    if sentence:
        yield sentence


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From Graeme.Cross at invetech.com.au  Fri Mar 19 18:45:05 2004
From: Graeme.Cross at invetech.com.au (Graeme Cross)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:45:05 +1100
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
Message-ID: <5E06BFED29594F4C9C5EBE230DE320C60309FD47@ewok.vsl.com.au>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Useldinger [mailto:p at trick.lu]
> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 2:06 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
> 
> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.
> Regards,
> -pu

I can't comment on OpenBSD, but the Python support in FreeBSD is excellent.

There was a freebsd-python mailing list, set up earlier this year, that you may find helpful:

http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python

Regards,
Graeme

--
Graeme Cross <gjc at invetech.com.au>
Invetech Pty Ltd - http://www.invetech.com.au/



From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 29 06:27:42 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:27:42 GMT
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.13.1080496451.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6g0bn.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.13.1080496451.20120.python-list at python.org>, Terry Reedy wrote:
> ?? The derived class __init__ is not called until the first instance is
> created, which might be way later or even never in any particular run of
> the program.  It does *not* check '*before* instantiating' as M.S. sensibly
> wants.

You're right, I was misreading the whole time.

Joe


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 17 14:11:23 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:11:23 +0100
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <mailman.74.1079508371.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.74.1079508371.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3a7sr$86q$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:
> Now, if I issue 'locale', I get:
> 
> LANG=zh_CN.GB2312
> LC_CTYPE=en_US
> LC_NUMERIC=en_US
> LC_TIME=en_US
> LC_COLLATE=en_US
> LC_MONETARY=en_US
> LC_MESSAGES=en_US
> LC_PAPER=en_US
> LC_NAME=en_US
> LC_ADDRESS=en_US
> LC_TELEPHONE=en_US
> LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US
> LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_US
> LC_ALL=
> 
> Notice that LANG=zh_CN.GB2312, which seems to be what
> I want, but still when I run the following script:

The problem is that the other settings are still for
en_US. You need to unset all other variables, in particular

unset LC_CTYPE

Alternatively, set all other LC_ variables to zh_CN.GB2312
as well.

It is a very bad style of your Linux distribution to set
all LC_ variables explicitly - they should be set only if
one needs to override LANG for a specific setting.

Regards,
Martin



From piedmontbiz at aol.com  Tue Mar 30 18:18:02 2004
From: piedmontbiz at aol.com (PiedmontBiz)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 23:18:02 GMT
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>

>
>I'd say that good docs don't make a great language but bad docs can ruin 
>a great language. Python's docs aren't bad but they could be a lot better.
>
>wxPython would be my example of some of the worst (non-existant) 
>documentation available for Python while PyGame would be my example of 
>some of the best.
>

As a newbie, I have spent a lot of time with the official python docs. I find
they are terse, but thorough and helpful. I always keep in mind that these docs
are produced by professional programmers --not professional technical writers.
They also have jobs and family responsibilities so for them, this is a labor of
love.

For the few areas where the docs are lacking, I have found that there is almost
always a tutorial or two written by python boosters which get me through.

The only place I had real problems with the docs was the section on cookies.
Cute but unusable to me. I'm not complaining though. I have not yet contributed
anything to the python documentation myself.

allen.


From mikesg at abv.bg  Mon Mar 29 08:42:14 2004
From: mikesg at abv.bg (Mike Grigorov)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 05:42:14 -0800
Subject: Resolved: Jython 2.1 and Cheetah:Cyrillic templates output mixed
	encoding
References: <9d3e1c94.0403252354.2fba4541@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9d3e1c94.0403290542.2ac293fd@posting.google.com>

mikesg at abv.bg (Mike Grigorov) wrote in message news:<9d3e1c94.0403252354.2fba4541 at posting.google.com>...
> I am using cheetah with jython 2.1 and I have problem generating templates
> that contain cyrillic text. Some texts are printed OK and others are not. 

The fact is that cheetah had nothing to do with the problem. I studied Jython 
code and changed PyString and PyFile classes in the org.python.core package. I 
changed all calls to deprecated methods of java.lang.String with their 
recommended replacements and the problem seems to be solved. I also changed 
references to StringBufferInputStream with ByteArrayInputStream in the "Py" and 
"parser" classes of the same package but haven't studied if this helped to solve 
the problem.


Thanks for your time
Mike


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Mar 14 06:35:19 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:35:19 +0200
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <1056g3f7jnt2jcc@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<1056g3f7jnt2jcc@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c31g3n$iu0$2@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello John,

>>Who says Python is not strongly typed? Python *is*
>>strongly typed. The problem I am facing is that Python
>>is also dynamically typed, and I want static typing.
> 
> 
> So do a lot of other people. If you want static
> typing, go use a language that has it, like Java,
> C++ or C#.
You can give ML (http://www.ocaml.org/) a try. All the type checking you 
can think of...

Miki


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar  6 10:19:28 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:19:28 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
References: <Law11-F108dhVtRRM4c0002bf6d@hotmail.com><c2ajnq$o48$1@sea.gmane.org><mailman.42.1078534951.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ishiqk7x.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c2cq5v$5mk$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:du7ishiqk7x.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi...
> I don't think this has anything to do with language features. It's a
> library issue. Perl achieves the functionality by some system calls,
> and I can't see why Python couldn't be made to execute the same system
> calls. In fact it would seem trivial, Perl is OSS after all.

There is an issue of codebase philosophy.  Based on what I have read here
and on PyDev, Python is mostly written in portable-as-possible ANSI C 89.
For i/o, for instance, it uses the C stdio library.  System-specific
#IFDEFs are generally used only when necessary, since each has a cost in
maintenance.  As a result, it can run on any system with a decent C
compiler while being maintained by a small core (of about 10?) volunteer
developers.

The Perl developers, people have reported on clp, special-cased their i/o
code for various versions of Windows by going behind (under) the portable
library to make direct system calls specific to Windows and probably
different versions of Windows.  This requires specialist knowledge,
continually updated, and extra time on a *continuing* basis.

Certainly, Python can be made to execute the same system calls as Perl.
But *someone* has to find, read, and understand the Perl code and then find
the appropriate place in the Python code to make the change, test it on the
multiple current versions of Windows, document it at least in the code, and
promise to stick around for several years to recheck the code for future
versions of Windows.  And he has to do this in preference to any of the
other hundred things he could do.

Is it worth it so someone can write a monstrous 6000 char command line
instead of the 2000 char limit MS imposes on the standard 'front-door'
entry method?   Probably not.

Terry J. Reedy






From bmorgan at usa.net  Sat Mar 13 01:53:13 2004
From: bmorgan at usa.net (Byron Morgan)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 22:53:13 -0800
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
References: <mailman.340.1079150274.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <85c78d18.0403122253.aedc90a@posting.google.com>

Here is one way:

a = {}
feature_vector = '1:x 2:y 3:z'
for each in feature_vector.split():
    a[each.split(':')[0]]=each.split(':')[1]


Byron Morgan


dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.340.1079150274.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> Here am I,
> On the border...if someone can help me, it would be
> nice:
> 
> I have a string:
> 
> feature_vector. It is of the form 
> <index: value, index: value, index: value>
> 
> I want to make this string into a dictionary so that I
> can apply .keys() method
> 
> If I apply .keys() method straight away I get this
> error:
> 
> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'keys'
> 
> Is there a way in which I can convert/typecast my
> string thing to dictionary ??
> 
> Thax in advance
> Dont
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 19:54:56 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:54:56 -0700
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:08:09 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
wrote:

>
>>>>a=[1,2,3]
>>>> for p in a:
>	print p
>1
>2
>3
>>>> p
>3
>
>My naive expectation was that p would be 'not defined' from outside
>the loop.
>
>I know this is not news. 
>
>In fact I had come across some discussion of this fact, but apparently
>didn't register it.
>
>As I got myself surprised by it - specifically  in the context of list
>comps, where I think it is particularly surprising:
>
>>>> b=[4,5,6]
>>>> [t*2 for t in b]
>[8, 10, 12]
>>>> t
>6
>
>Is this anywhere useful, or more of an artifact?

Scopes are defined by the boundaries of functions, classes and
modules, not for loops.  This is essential, or you would have to
declare global variables inside most for loops.

For a good, up-to-date discussion of scopes, see Learning Python, Ch.
13 Scopes and Arguments, and p.337 - Namespaces: The Whole Story.  Be
sure to get the 2nd edition.  The scope rules have changed
significantly since the first edition.

-- Dave



From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 16:03:06 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:03:06 GMT
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
References: <ea2ed14f.0403011151.406ab5ec@posting.google.com>
	<20040301161835.20170.00000686@mb-m27.aol.com>
	<ea2ed14f.0403011921.4c412ffc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eKr1c.32567$TF2.22282@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

to add to what allen said, I'd just use the f11 key to fullscreen the
browser, also.

"Alex Li" <likwoka at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ea2ed14f.0403011921.4c412ffc at posting.google.com...
> >
> > I'll let the experts answer this one. But I have a question. Do you rule
out a
> > http server ? If I were doing this I would avoid the apparent complexity
> > wxpython and just use standard html and javascript to pass the answers
to the
> > server. The python script could record time it got the "get" and return
it with
> > the validation.
> >
> >
> > allen
>
> Thanks, Allen!  Your solution is actually quite attractive, as it just
> simplify the whole thing a lot....  I would consider it very
> seriously...
>
> Thanks again,
> Alex




From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 22:32:00 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:32:00 -0500
Subject: PythonCOM - How to get (LPDISPATCH) of myself?
In-Reply-To: <_MS2c.1888$6y1.257780@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <_MS2c.1888$6y1.257780@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <SUa3c.13260$6y1.557049@news20.bellglobal.com>

In the spirit of trial and error.. ;o) ..I tried the following to get a 
Dispatch object to myself from within my Python COM server:

pythoncom.UnwrapObject(pythoncom.GetActiveObject(self._reg_progid_))

But got the following exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\universal.py", line 173, 
in dispatch
     retVal = ob._InvokeEx_(meth.dispid, 0, meth.invkind, args, None, None)
   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 
322, in _InvokeEx_
     return self._invokeex_(dispid, lcid, wFlags, args, kwargs, 
serviceProvider)
   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 
541, in _invokeex_
     return func(*args)
   File "E:\_DEV\python\solidworks\PropertyPageUtils.py", line 53, in 
ConnectToSW
     obj = 
pythoncom.UnwrapObject(pythoncom.GetActiveObject(self._reg_progid_))
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221021, 'Operation unavailable', None, None)

Can anyone tell me what 'Operation unavailable' might be hinting at?

Markus.

Markus Wankus wrote:
> I have a Python COM server which supports callbacks for a large CAD 
> program.  It adds menu items and then listens to events - however, I 
> have a problem (obviously)...  I'm a COM idiot - so please expect dumb 
> questions.
> 
> There are a bunch of functions that require a pointer to the event 
> handler, or a pointer to my COM server.  Prolem is - it is looking for a 
> pointer to a Dispatch object - but I have already been dispatched. Maybe 
> an example will clear things up.  One of the functions is as follows:
> 
> Status = SldWorks.SetAddinCallbackInfo ( ModuleHandle, AddinCallbacks, 
> Cookie )
> 
> Input:
>  (long) ModuleHandle
>  Instance handle of the add-in
> 
> Input:
>  (LPDISPATCH) AddinCallbacks
>  Pointer to the object that includes the add-in callback methods
> 
> Input:
>  (long) Cookie
>  Add-in ID; this is the same Cookie you specified in SwAddin::ConnectToSW
> 
> Output:
>  (VARIANT_BOOL) Status
>  TRUE if successful, FALSE if unsuccessful
> 
> What I *want* to do is essentially:
> 
> SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), self, self.ICookie)
> 
> ...however - this fails because "self" (my COM server) is not a Pointer 
> to a Dispatch object.
> 
> I can get it to work if I do the following:
> 
> SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), Dispatch(self._reg_progid_), self.ICookie)
> 
> ...however this dipatches a new instance of my COM server, losing any 
> attributes that may have been set since instantiation - thus is useless.
> 
> Is there a way to get a pointer to a Dispatch object of yourself?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 08:31:24 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:31:24 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
	<988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a3m560hct5ria1cqn27noipmishfpbu8qf@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:22:31 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:48:00 +0000, Stephen Horne
><steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>>Symbols (and worse, odd combinations of symbols where it's hard to
>>tell which symbols are part of the same syntax rule and which are not)
>>that you've not seen before tend not to suggest where in the manual to
>>look.
>
>We need a single unique symbol, one that doesn't conflict with
>existing syntax, and has no special meaning itself.  By using this
>symbol for extensions of *many* statements, we minimize the amount of
>new words or syntax users have to learn.

So each statement will only ever be extended once, and for one
purpose?

>
>>If 'as' is too generic, then what about 'decorators'. That clearly
>>states what follows and can easily be looked up, making the 'RTFM'
>>attitude justifiable.
>
>"Decorators" is clear as to its meaning, but a little too long,
>especially if it causes statments with multiple decorators to run over
>one line.  It also limits the syntax to this one statement.  You would
>not want to extend the syntax of a print statement, for example, with
>decorators=(separator = ' ', terminator = '\n').

If it's a secondary syntax, learned late and rarely used, then a long,
explicit keyword is just what is needed. You can look it up, of
course, but it is far better for readability if you don't need to - if
the explicit keyword is itself a sufficient reminder. After all, it's
not just newbies that we should worry about - what about people like
me, who use several languages and sometimes go months without using
Python at all?

As for the print statement, I wouldn't use a decorating approach at
all. And neither did you, for that matter - what you described could
not be implemented using decorator functions.


What I might use is something like...

  pragma printoptions ( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' ) :
    print "whatever"
    print "something else"

...as a general way of providing standard-behaviour-overriding flags
for built-ins.

Except that I don't see this as a real problem. Print works well as a
quick way to get results out of short scripts, where perfect
formatting of those results is unimportant. In more sophisticated
programs, other I/O mechanisms are better suited to the job.

>>Not really. What happens when there are two different ways of
>>modifying the same syntax? When the first one was defined with no
>>awareness that another kind of modification might be needed later?
>
>I guess I'll need an example here.  Seems like the potential for
>future incompatibilities is *greater* if the syntax itself has
>"special meaning" ( e.g. "decorators" instead of [] ).

If a statement has a 'decorators' extension syntax, it can always add
a 'widget' or 'blodget' extension syntax later, being clear to both
the parser and the reader.

Contrast the case with a single extension-denoting symbol - '$'
perhaps. If it gets re-used for several extensions to the same
statement, you get the real possibility that the only way to tell the
different extensions apart is the ordering. Which, at the very least,
means a far greater probability of having to reread the documentation
to figure out what something means - ie bad readability.

>Also, I think in programs where the syntax is useful, it will be used
>a lot, so ease of typing and readability is an issue.

So do I - that is why I suggested a preamble method, where the list of
decorators to apply to a whole group of functions is only written
once.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Mar 11 10:17:07 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 16:17:07 +0100
Subject: Python and serverless/flat DBs
References: <c280l0$4r0$1@news.gate.net>
Message-ID: <wzu10v5s7g.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Davin <davin at wordpainter.net> (D) wrote:

D> Yes, this is Yet Another Rehash. I did try to Google around first, but most
D> of the results I found were somewhat dated. Basicly, I'm interested in
D> putting the commercially permissible "serverless" databases to use. That
D> pretty much limits it to gadfly, ZODB, metakit, and sqlite. (others require
D> licenses in commercial situations - not sure about the license of Firebird
D> either) The following is what I've managed to gather on my own so
D> far...could someone enlighten me further?

Firebird has no problems with its license. You can use it in a commercial
setting without paying anything. And it can be used embedded (serverless).
In fact you can choose whether you want a sever installation (called
superserver) or embedded (called classic). In the embedded case it only
needs a lock manager process running to manage the locks when more than one
process opens the same database. I don't know if you can get rid of the
lock manager process if the database is only accessed from a single
process.
With Firebird you do have all the transaction stuff.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From gnarasi at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 23:13:37 2004
From: gnarasi at hotmail.com (gnarasi)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 20:13:37 -0800
Subject: setting up a wiki instance
Message-ID: <138ef576.0403032013.2355b99@posting.google.com>

I have installed moin1.2 as root(in /usr/lib and /usr/share dirs.)
It works fine.
  In trying to setup a wiki instance in my home directory(public_html)
I am unable to execute moin.cgi script. I have other .cgi scripts in
/public_html/cgi_bin/ dir.
  For example executing http://localhst/public_html/cgi-bin/my.cgi
gives:
Hello, today is: 03/03/04
  When I try moin.cgi instead i have a message that declares that
Mozilla does not know how to handle files of type
Application/x-httpd-cgi
moin.cgi is a python script and I am running MandrameLinux9.2
  If I can run moin1.2(FrontPage) as root installed what is hindering
its use as user installed?
                       Thanks for any help.  gnarasi


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 14 19:14:58 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:14:58 GMT
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
References: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6A65c.11223$Eg3.5178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

I use pexpect to telnet and ssh...

"Luca T." <lucat at despammed.com> wrote in message
news:c32b2j$222k3a$1 at ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hello,
> i need some answers...
>
> 1) I need to run some linux commands (from inside my app) that require
> superuser privileges (mkfs, losetup, etc), how do i do that? (I do not
> want to run my app with root privileges, but it will just ask the user
> for the root password before proceeding)
> 2) When i execute the command i need to read its output (especially the
> error messages) to know if everything went fine but i do not know how :(
> 3) How can i know if the user that is running my app is root or normal
user?
>
> Thank you,
>     Luca




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:58:08 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:58:08 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <258fd9b8.0403301237.60528600@posting.google.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<258fd9b8.0403301237.60528600@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4069DF60.7010600@mlug.missouri.edu>


>I don't think you need to worry. AFAIK Python 3 is the mythological
>if-I-could-turn-back-the-clock-and-undo-all-my-mistakes version
>of Python, which Guido probably won't have time to work with 
>until his son is big enough to help him. (He'll be 3 in November.)
>It will have little regard for backward compatibility, and if it
>does appear sooner than expected, you can expect Python 2.x to be
>maintaned in parallel for a long time.
>  
>
That's good. I was thinking that if they actually took out tab support 
I'd have to fork the code base and keep applying a patch that added tab 
support back in. Not to hard I think but not the kind of thing I like to do.

Overall I dislike features being removed, once added as 
non-experimental. I think if a languages authors want to do major 
changes like that which will break compatibility it's better to create a 
new language. Even if the two languages are highly similar. Otherwise 
you end up into weird issues like Perl where new versions take forever 
and if they are released as many people are annoyed as are pleased. Call 
them a family of languages if you like. So prehaps we could see the 
language Monty with some of Guido's new and improved ideas.



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Mar 30 18:18:16 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:18:16 GMT
Subject: How to make this speed up
References: <mailman.142.1080683661.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Yenac.887$bQ3.340@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

myang wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have thousands of points in 3D space, and I want to calcuate the distance
> between each other of them. I do the calculation with the following code.
> 
> def distance(a,b):
>    sum = 0
>    for i in range(len(a)):
>        sum += (a[i]-b[i])**2
>    return sqrt(sum)

Two obvious things.  First, you say these are all 3D points, so
there's not much point being general here.  It is faster to get rid of
the loop and just calculate the distance directly.  Second, the **
operator seems to be a bit slower than multiplication, so when speed
matters, you should multiply instead of raise powers if you can.

So I would define distance as:

    def distance(a,b):
        x = a[0] - b[0]
        y = a[1] - b[1]
        z = a[2] - b[2]
        return sqrt(x*x + y*y + z*z)


> for i in range(len(plist)):
>    for j in range(i+1,len(plist)):
>        d = distance(plist[i],plist[j])

Function calls are rather expensive in Python.  It would be much
faster to calculate the distance right here, rather than call a
function to do it.  (Being that the distance formula is simple, it's
probably not necessary to abstract it in a function.)


> But this is damn slow. Do you have any suggestion to speed it up? 

Numeric and/or numarray.  These are some extension modules designed to
do the math stuff a lot faster (numarray will supercede Numeric).
Try Google.


> If I write
> the distance function in C extension, how faster will it be? (For the time
> being, I don't know how to write C extension yet :(

It could be a lot faster.  I would say the best tradeoff is to write
whole loop (not just the distance function) in C.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From tcdelaney at optusnet.com.au  Sat Mar 27 17:55:40 2004
From: tcdelaney at optusnet.com.au (Tim Delaney)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:55:40 +1000
Subject: Random Number
References: <a4648036.0403271156.787706e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406605f4$0$32668$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

"james blair" wrote:

> Whats the possibility that the numbers generated will be same when
> generated by 100 users at the same time?

This has already been answered.

> Whats the best method to generate random numbers so that they are most
> likely unique??

Realy, there's no "most likely" way. You can either rely on the random
number generator (mersenne twister, which is pretty damn good) or you can
guarantee that they are unique by a couple of methods:

1. Keep track of which numbers have been generated, and if you get a repeat
re-generate it - works well if the total number of numbers to be generated
is small and the range is large;

2. Keep track of all the possible values, and as each one is chosen
eliminate it from the future possible values. Select values using
random.choice();

3. If you know the maximum number of random values you will ever generate,
and you want to guarantee no collisions, Python 2.3 has a superb way of
doing it ...

    >>> import random
    >>> random.sample(xrange(1000000000), 5)
    [463302274, 701637929, 319795767, 173458898, 500806835]

and you can then just hand out the values in order ...

    >>> import random
    >>> rand_values = iter(random.sample(xrange(1000000000), 5))
    >>> rand_values.next()
    724415074
    >>> rand_values.next()
    316181550
    >>> rand_values.next()
    107217351
    rand_>>> rand_values.next()
    828888162
    >>> rand_values.next()
    599821642
    >>> rand_values.next()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    StopIteration

Note that there is one fewer zero in there than you want because ...

    >>> import random
    >>> random.sample(xrange(10000000000), 5)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int

Tim Delaney




From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 16 19:21:35 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:21:35 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
	<mailman.46.1079470395.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <he6f50tnrl8k3oq95omq8foo66ud5n92ss@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:52:54 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    Dave>     def h23(freq):
>    Dave>         s = complex(2*pi*freq)
>    Dave>         h0 = PZfuncs.h0
>    Dave>         z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
>    Dave>         p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
>    Dave>         return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))
>
>    Dave> Notice the clarity in that last formula.  
>
>Yeah, but h0, z1, z2, etc are not long-lived copies of attributes in
>PZfuncs.  If I execute:
>
>    >>> blah = h23(freq)
>    >>> reload(PZfuncs)
>    >>> blah = h23(freq)
>
>things will work properly.  It's only long-lived aliases that present a
>problem:
>
>    def h23(freq, h0=PZfuncs.h0):
>        s = complex(2*pi*freq)
>        z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
>        p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
>        return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

I think we are saying the same thing.  I moved the alias definitions
inside the loop, knowing they would be short-lived, and therefor not a
problem.

>    Dave> In this case we avoid the problem of local variables out-of-sync
>    Dave> with a reloaded module by refreshing those variables with every
>    Dave> call to the function.  In other cases, this may add too much
>    Dave> overhead to the computation.
>
>Unlikely.  Creating local copies of frequently used globals (in this case
>frequently used globals in another module) is almost always a win.  In fact,
>it's so much of a win that a fair amount of brain power has been devoted to
>optimizing global access.  See PEPs 266 and 267 and associated threads in
>python-dev from about the time they were written.  (Note that optimizing
>global access is still an unsolved problem in Python.)

Interesting.  I just ran a test comparing 10,000 calls to the original
h23 above with 10,000 calls to h23a below.

h0 = PZfuncs.h0
z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
def h23a(freq):
    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

The results are very close:

   time/loop (sec)    %
Test 1: 6.48E-006   119.1 (class PZfuncs)
Test 2: 6.88E-006   126.4 (module PZfuncs)
Test 3: 5.44E-006   100.0 (z1, p1, etc  outside loop)

There is not much difference in the original loop between accessing
the constants from a class vs accessing them from a module.  There is
a significant difference ( but not as much as I expected ) if we move
the six assignments outside the loop.  Then we are back to the problem
of ensuring that the aliases get updated each time we update the
module.

-- Dave



From fake at not-a-real-address.net  Fri Mar 19 13:13:25 2004
From: fake at not-a-real-address.net (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:13:25 GMT
Subject: lambda trouble
In-Reply-To: <mailman.162.1079717528.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
	<mailman.162.1079717528.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9LG6c.12276$W%6.4634@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Gandalf wrote:
> 
> Darabos Daniel wrote:
> 
>> And it surprised me a little. I was expecting to see 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.
>> After some brainwork I now kind of understand what happens and I even
>> found a solution like this:
>>
> Well, it is not suprising. In a lambda expression, everything after the 
> : is symbolic. It is compiled,
> not evaluated. You can use a named function instead of an unnamed one:
> 
> [GCC 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106] on freebsd5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> def p(x):
> ... print x
> ...
>  >>> l = []
>  >>> for i in range( 5 ):
> ... def func():
> ... p(i)
> ... l.append( func )
> ...
>  >>> for k in l:
> ... k()
> ...
>  >>> l
> [<function func at 0x81a4f0c>, <function func at 0x81a4f44>, <function 
> func at 0x81a4f7c>, <function func at 0x81a4fb4>, <function func at 
> 0x81ae02c>]
>  >>>
> 
> You have different functions. However, in every function, the name 'i' 
> is not a local name. (Python has only two levels: local and global.)
> Here is another solution. However, it uses eval. Probably, it is not the 
> fastest one.
> 
> def p(x):
> print x
> 
> l = []
> for i in range( 5 ):
> l.append(eval("lambda: p( %s )"%i))
> 
> for k in l:
> k()
> 
> 
> Udv,
> 
> Laci
> 
> 
It is really even simpler:

 >>> def p(x):
	print x

 >>> l=[lambda i=i: p(i) for i in range(5)]
 >>> for k in l:
	k()

0
1
2
3
4
 >>>



From christian at mvonessen.de  Fri Mar 26 13:52:05 2004
From: christian at mvonessen.de (Christian)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 18:52:05 GMT
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<huvv505om6eq8scvisrhsmul8b14mht5jg@4ax.com>
	<c3pj77$r8n$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<2dl160t6s26gau4o4gt2ld79s35gjsd0ma@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c41u4l$2dpj20$1@ID-210829.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> I would use the logic of 'preferring the return type at the end', and
> perhaps cite Ada, Pascal, Modula 2, etc (Algol as well?) as examples
> to follow. But then why do I have no problem with C, C++, Java, C# etc
> where the type of the return value usually comes first?
>

I think, what makes
	def foo[return(string)](x=42:int, y=3.14:float):
look so strange, is the fact that you have the function name, the
return type and after that the arguments

	def [return (string)] foo(x=42:int, y=3.14:float):
looks more familar, if you concentrate on the 'foo'. But this style
seems to push the function's name into the middle of the declaration.

The fact that there's no problem with reading C, C++ etc comes from the
continuity of their declaration. you can read
	void foo(int bar=42)
very fluently, and
	def foo [return void] (bar=34:int)
not.

The problem is, that we are accustomated at having the function's name
right before the argumentlist, as it gets called
you don't write foo [x] = (32, 42) but x = foo(32, 42)

IMHO, if the function's name has to be right after the 'def', and 'def'
has to be the first command in a declaration, the return type has to
come last


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Mar 24 05:43:07 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:43:07 +0100
Subject: py2exe, mx.ODBC
References: <opr5bkaavz35jo5o@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <opr5c315k435jo5o@news.gmane.org>

Please ignore the message - no one answered anyway 8o)!
It is not a mxODBC issue. Please ignore this message!




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 11:58:25 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:58:25 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<c2j71h$ovl$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
	<omes40p89urcnnb7jm49vh30n5aga90mr4@4ax.com>
	<c2n9s3$e44$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tqhu405l2lr9vvt6up6fm7sc3g5f9q38cs@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:46:41 +0000, leeg
<leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid> wrote:

>[1]"Byte compilation" is a jargontastic way of saying tokenised, then
>interpreted.

No it is not.

In the Java case (and the typical case) there is a virtual machine
with a virtual machine code, which is a very long way from just
tokenising the code. You can even get Java assemblers and
disassemblers. Much the same applies for Microsofts .NET.

I'm not exactly sure for Python, but the furthest I can imagine from
this is a binary representation of a preparsed abstract syntax tree
(which, with a few tweaks, could be considered a kind of structured
virtual machine code).

Tokenised just means replacing the text form of each token with a
token identifier. That simply isn't the same thing.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 13 13:46:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:46:03 -0000
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<7x8yi5wfyd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrnc552dr.2dq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<7x3c8d9x8i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1056lnbe5d1qg50@corp.supernews.com>

In article <7x3c8d9x8i.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> writes:
>> No, that makes the increasingly incorrect assumption that the passwords
>> are stored and accessed via those files.  Many systems use NIS or LDAP
>> or other protocol-based account table management methods, and the
>> 'passwd' command is often set up to use that method.  Affecting /etc/*
>> files in such a case would have no effect on the root password.
>
>The OP isn't asking about how to do it on "many systems", he's asking
>how to do it on a specific system (Mac OS X).  If he can find a way that
>works on that system, he doesn't have to worry about other systems.

MacOS X *can* use LDAP and such, but, I agree, it seems that's not
one of the considerations of the original poster.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Mar 11 04:00:44 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 01:00:44 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<104vg6f87k7gb19@corp.supernews.com>
	<hciv40hf01o3bkbm7ftk2833ofhko8653l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <d28ac2c5.0403110100.2578aae3@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg wrote, amongst other things:

> electronic design engineer for many years.  I never heard of lambda's
> or lambda calculus until learning Python, and the name still doesn't
> evoke much meaning for me.  I've never used APL, J, or Perl.  I wonder
> how many technical professionals who are *not* programmers would know
> what a lambda is?  I wonder if Python is becoming more a language for
> programmers, and less for "everyone".

To program, everyone eventually will have to be a programmer. Powerful
programming languages offer concepts that aren't always easy to grasp,
but in order to use them, some kind of understanding will have to
happen. Mostly it's easier if you learn them using Python, or after
your 3rd or 4th not too similar language...

--
Christopher


From python-url at phaseit.net  Fri Mar 19 23:02:37 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:02:37 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 19)
Message-ID: <105ngitn2lp9nb4@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Well, to do what I've done so far in Java would have taken at least
5 and probably more like 10 times the code I've written.  A simple yet
decent TCP chat server in about 30 lines of code is something I never
considered possible before looking at Python." -- Qp
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=k4y0c.7173%24ED1.3250%40fe03.usenetserver.com

"Python is built on a small set of entirely uninteresting control structures,
designed to lead you into a state of mind where you think more about the
logic of your code than about whether you can whip something off as a
one-liner or obfuscate it to show your brilliance in comparison to lesser
programmers.  ;-)" -- Peter Hansen
    http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=fdff00501fcb3fcb

    Web service in one line.
	http://altis.pycs.net/2004/03/14.html#a96

    El FAQ de Python es disponible para los que leen espanol.
	http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/facundo/python/index.html

    Robert Brewer solves simple directed or non-directed graphs
    with Python.
	http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/index.html

    Tkinter acquires up its own mailing list and Wiki.
        http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/wiki/Tkinter

    Ian Bicking's serious thoughts about interfaces and semantics
    help those considering Python in comparison with, say, Smalltalk
    or Java or Eiffel.
	http://blog.colorstudy.com/ianb/weblog/2004/03/14.html#P73

    libxml2 is a good thing, but not an easy thing.  Get it right.
	http://www.vandervossen.net/2004/03/libxml_python

    If you intend to work with the Open Directory Project, be sure
    to read other consumers' comments, not just the advertisements
    of the site.
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=14407ee04d67f494


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Mar 10 00:36:11 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:36:11 +0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7id67l8dro.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Roy" == Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

    Roy> I think what you've demonstrated here is not so much that
    Roy> exceptions are a bad thing, but that C++'s implementation of
    Roy> exceptions (like most things in C++) is overly complicated.  I find
    Roy> it interesting that many people who come from a C++ background
    Roy> (especially those who migrated from C) tend to dislike exceptions.
    Roy> It must have been something in the water when they were growing up
    Roy> :-)

In Python, function calls and returns are actually quite slow (because they
has to allocate a dictionary)---just like everything else.  So the slightly
slower exception handling time does not add to the equation.  In C++,
function calls and returns are extremely fast (they just add and subtract a
constant from the stack pointer and save the return address).  While
exceptions are implemented in a way that is also "fast" (e.g., typical
implementation uses the faulting address to look up an "exception table" to
find the location where roll-back of variables are needed, and then look up
a table to find the handlers if any, and after that go up one level), it is
nowhere near a normal function returns.  So in C++, exceptions are
considered heavy-weight.  It is by no means that C++ exceptions are "overly
complicated": it is in fact less featureful than that of Python (e.g., no
stack trace is kept once you catch it, unlike in Python where you can
re-throw and still keep the stack trace).  When you love speed, there is a
lot less that you can do.

Regards,
Isaac.


From user at host.domain  Tue Mar  2 19:45:07 2004
From: user at host.domain (Peter KERR)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:45:07 +1300
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com>
	<mailman.218.1077916834.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<30260531.0402271901.1bbdda99@posting.google.com>
	<du7n073muvy.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <user-66D20D.13450703032004@scream.auckland.ac.nz>

In article <du7n073muvy.fsf at amadeus.cc.tut.fi>,
 Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> 
> Often Python is the best tool for all the jobs there is to do. People
> just fail to see that because, driven by prejudice, they opt for the
> tool that can *only* do whatever the job is at the moment. That might
> have been sensible 15 years ago, but the software landscape has
> changed since.
> 

and will change again before you're ready :-(
Use whatever you are happy with that does the job, 
just do it so well that the next guy in your position 
isn't tempted to rewrite it in his favorite language...


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 18 09:42:34 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:42:34 -0600
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
In-Reply-To: <qnkad2eaen8.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
	<405868D7.4090205@python.org>
	<mailman.86.1079536389.742.python-list@python.org>
	<qnkad2eaen8.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <20040318144232.GA1796@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 12:49:15AM -0500, David M. Cooke wrote:
> You didn't try it, did you :-)? It doesn't work -- generic options have to
> come before the subcommand w/ cvs.

Well, I tried this and got the error I expected:
    $ cvs co -z3
    cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified!  Please use the `-d' option
    cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable.
.. but now I see that it doesn't actually work that way:
    $ cvs diff -z3
    diff: invalid option -- z

Jeff



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 21:23:48 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:23:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040316022348.14641.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
wrote: > Ludovic Aubry <no_ludal_spam at logilab.com>
writes:
> 
> > On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:41:10 +0100, Jacek
> Generowicz wrote:
> > 
> > > Python is strongly typed because:
> > > 
> > > - lots of type checking is done
> > > - few implicit type conversions are done.
> > > - No operations which are inappropriate to the
> object(s) in question
> > >   are allowed.
> > While I agree with the above...
> > 
> > I think your arguments in the following are mostly
> wrong:
> 
> I did say (somewhere) that strong and weak typing is
> a pretty
> wish-washy concept ... and I'm not going to engage
> in discussions of
> just how weakly typed C is and why. I agree, there
> are plenty of ways
> in which you could pick holes in my examples. I'm
> sorry, I don't find
> pursuing this train of thought very interesting.
> 
> > > Try as you will, Python would not allow you to
> do any of these things,
> > > because it is _strongly typed_ with respect to
> these operations on these
> > > types.
> > Python will allow you to multiply string with
> integers for example ;)
> 
> Yes, and in that respect it is weakly typed. 
> 
> ML, for example wouldn't even allow you to add a
> float to an integer,
> without explicit instructions stating what it is
> that you mean, which
> Python would do for you without hesitation, so in
> that respect Python
> is more weakly typed than ML.
> 
> PERL would allow you to add "3" to 3, Python would
> not. In that
> respect Python is more strongly typed than PERL.
> 
> (I neither know nor care whether the answer PERL
> gives you is 6 or 33 :-)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Hmm...Python is strongly typed; weaker than ML, but
stronger than Perl. :-)

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Mar 19 15:38:38 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:38:38 -0300
Subject: converting string to dictionary
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383781@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:

#-  suppose i have dictinary as below :
#- 
#-   a={'jack':'monica','mark':'alice','jeff':'jeni'}
#- 
#-   i am storing this dictionary into the database where it is 
#- converted
#- to string of the form :
#-     '{'jack':'monica','mark':'alice','jeff':'jeni'}'
#- 
#- now i want to convert this string into dictionary.  

>>> a = "{'jack':'monica','mark':'alice','jeff':'jeni'}"
>>> b = eval(a)
>>> b
{'jeff': 'jeni', 'jack': 'monica', 'mark': 'alice'}

You may want to be sure that you're not getting malicious code from your
database.

.	Facundo





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From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Mar  5 13:39:23 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:39:23 -0800
Subject: function to return a list of all methods for an object
Message-ID: <xL32c.531$No1.31862@news.uswest.net>

I need a way of getting a list of all the methods for an object. I want the
unbound methods for the objects class for some further manipulation. My old
way of doing this did a recursive iteration over __bases__ and the code
seems sort of fragile, especially with multiple inheritance. I came up with
a much simpler version that uses dir(), but would like a sanity check before
committing to it. Perhaps there is a better way? This only needs to work
with Python 2.2 and later, so I won't mind say "Doh!" if I've missed the
obvious simple solution and someone points out my stupidity.

# return a list of unbound methods for an object
def getMethods(object):
    methods = []
    names = dir(object.__class__)
    for name in names:
        m = getattr(object.__class__, name)
        if isinstance(m, types.MethodType):
            #print "method:", m
            methods.append(m)
    return methods


I went ahead and wrote a simple test program:

import types
import pprint

def getMethods(object):
    methods = []
    names = dir(object.__class__)
    for name in names:
        m = getattr(object.__class__, name)
        if isinstance(m, types.MethodType):
            #print "method:", m
            methods.append(m)
    return methods


class A:
    def oneA(self):
        pass

    def dummy(self):
        print "A dummy"

class B(A):
    def twoB(self):
        pass

    def dummy(self):
        print "B dummy"

class C:
    def threeC(self):
        pass

class D:
    def fourD(self):
        pass

class E(B, C, D):
    pass

e = E()
print e, E
e.dummy()
methods = getMethods(e)
pprint.pprint(methods)


Here's the output:
<__main__.E instance at 0x007EABC0> __main__.E
B dummy
[<unbound method E.dummy>,
 <unbound method E.fourD>,
 <unbound method E.oneA>,
 <unbound method E.threeC>,
 <unbound method E.twoB>]

Thanks,

ka




From sean_berry at cox.net  Tue Mar 30 01:41:27 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:41:27 -0800
Subject: A couple of Python CGI questions
References: <9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309@fed1read03> <2z8ac.65499$Bg.26470@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <oE8ac.65528$Bg.35414@fed1read03>

Figured that one out too.

form = cgi.FireldStorage()
userid = form.getfirst("userid")

print userid

Does this work that same for forms?  Since this is get, and most forms will
be post... can I collect post variables in the same fashion?


"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:2z8ac.65499$Bg.26470 at fed1read03...
> What about collection variables passed via the URL... like
> someprogram.cgi?userid=Seam
>
> How would I collect the userid = Sean part?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> "sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
> news:9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309 at fed1read03...
> > I tried getting mod_python to work but have had lots of problems getting
> it
> > running.  So, I have settled on using python cgi.
> >
> > I have already got it going and it seems to run fast enough for me.
> >
> > My questions are:
> > 1.  Is there any way to access variables from within a string like perl
> cgi?
> > I have found that the best way for me to write html tables is to use a
> print
> > """<blah blah blah>""" string.  That way I can write one print """, and
> then
> > write html as if I were writing an html file.  For example:
> > print """
> > <table border="0" cellspacing="0">
> > <tr>
> >     <td>This is cool</td>
> > </tr>
> > </table>
> > """
> > I really like this and it is a lot like typing the following in Perl
cgi:
> > print <<EOF
> > <table border="0" cellspacing="0">
> > <tr>
> >     <td>This is cool</td>
> > </tr>
> > </table>
> > EOF
> >
> > So, is there any way to access variables from within the string, besides
> > using %s?  In perl, I just put the $variable in the string and it
replaces
> > the varname with the value.
> >
> > 2.  Is there a good online resourse for pyton cgi?
> > 3.  How do you collect request variables from forms sent to the python
cgi
> > page, whether post or get?
> >
> >
> > Thanks very much for the help... I will continue to google for my
answers.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Mar  5 05:37:04 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:37:04 +0000
Subject: Need a Progress Bar/Meter for Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <040320041859589376%bscholln@mac.com>
References: <040320041859589376%bscholln@mac.com>
Message-ID: <40485850.3070302@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

benjamin schollnick wrote:
> Folks,
> 
>    I am really not having much luck...
> 
>    I thought the ContriD addon for Python MegaWidgets had a progress
> bar, but can't find the site any more...  (It's been a long time since
> I did any Tkinter GUI work...)
> 
>    So far, I have had no luck with METER from TIX...  Tix on Windows
> 2000 seems to be far from a suitable system.  It is complaining that
> the TIX8183.dll can not be loaded....
> 
>    So far, I have also examined EASYGUI, and a few others and have not
> been able to find a simple Progress bar.
> 
>    Can anyone point me towards a working Tkinter based progress bar?
> 
>          - Benjamin

Google is your friend...

google python Tkinter Progress Bar

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/2718

HTH
Martin





From beliavsky at aol.com  Tue Mar 16 15:08:15 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 12:08:15 -0800
Subject: tuples or lists
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403161208.78350dac@posting.google.com>

Tuples, unlike lists, are immutable, which I crudely translate to mean
"their contents cannot be changed". Out of habit, I use only lists,
not tuples, in my code. But I wonder if this is poor style -- putting
a collection of data in a tuple, when possible, makes it easier to
follow the code. You do not have to think about whether contents have
changed from where the tuple was first defined.

Is "use tuples instead of lists, when possible" a good rule?


From bob at redivi.com  Mon Mar  8 11:12:10 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:12:10 -0500
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200403081112108930%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-08 10:53:59 -0500, lamote1 at netscape.net (chads) said:

> How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
> simple example?
> 
> union {
>    struct {
>       int size;
>       float time;
>    } var1;
>    struct {
>       char initial;
>       float time;
>    } var2;
> };

Why exactly do you want this?  Yes, it matters.

Since you haven't inserted padding manually, this isn't necessarily a 
simple example because it depends on the way the C compiler has decided 
to pack structures.  Behavior of this union is architecture and 
compiler-flag dependent..

-bob



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 04:30:55 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:30:55 -0000
Subject: In what python release was this introduced..
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347BF@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>i need to list dependencies for my package & was wondering in what
>python release could you start making 'in <string>' calls with more
>than one char..eg:

2.3.?

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
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From no at sp.am  Fri Mar 26 14:55:04 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:55:04 -0600
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
In-Reply-To: <c41u4l$2dpj20$1@ID-210829.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<huvv505om6eq8scvisrhsmul8b14mht5jg@4ax.com>
	<c3pj77$r8n$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<2dl160t6s26gau4o4gt2ld79s35gjsd0ma@4ax.com>
	<c41u4l$2dpj20$1@ID-210829.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cMmdnZdvjpkHF_ndRVn-hw@comcast.com>

Christian wrote:

> IMHO, if the function's name has to be right after the 'def', and 'def'
> has to be the first command in a declaration, the return type has to
> come last

I agree.

I think it is neat that function decorators may be used for specifying 
argument types and the return types, but I don't think it should be THE 
way to always do it, because it is pretty ugly.  I still prefer 
eventually adding an "as" keyword or some other different syntax from 
the decorator syntax, like:

def foo(x as int, y as float) as string:
    ...

See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042795.html

I know that is like Visual Basic, but it is readable and easier to 
understand for novices.  If you want to use x:int, y:float instead, you 
might as well throw out the colon at the end of the def statement since 
it defeats the purpose of it.


From mmaru at visiontv.ca  Thu Mar  4 14:20:39 2004
From: mmaru at visiontv.ca (Maru, Mulugeta)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:20:39 -0500
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
Message-ID: <5E62CFE4CB546F44ADCABD9852C2C8EC048C94@email.toronto.visiontv.ca>

What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL to develop a database driven intranet? Do I need to use any framework or application server? If I do please kindly direct me where to go. 
Many thanks. 
MM

VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television network.



From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 14:25:01 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:25:01 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> wrote...
> Marco Bubke wrote:
> > def foo(x, y) as staticmethode: pass
> > 
> > Define foo with arguments x and y as staticmethode.
> > 
> > Is Python now C++? Mabe I miss something why this syntax is wrong.
> 
> Personnally, I prefer the "as" syntax to the other proposed (and by a 
> large margin).  However, I feel that it is making the language more 
> complex and I'm far from sure it's worth the effort.  I've given some 
> [snip
> If easing the creation of class methods is so important, I would prefer 

Just done a quick check:

$ find /lib/python2.3/ -name "*.py" -exec egrep
"(class|static)method\W" {} ';' | wc --lines
     49

Not all of them are calls, and all this in 773 *.py files. I guess
this says something about importance...

Cheers,

AdSR


From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Tue Mar 16 15:16:27 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:16:27 -0700
Subject: Tkinter3000
Message-ID: <1079468187.4057609b5fc22@midtoad.homelinux.org>

Cameron wrote:
>'Couple of us were just talking about setting up a Tkinter
mailing list and Wiki.  Should we?

Well, it's possible to search on Tkinter in this python-list and find the 
occasional gem, but I can see how some people might be reluctant to bother the 
entire Python list about a detail of Tkinter.  So from that perspective it 
might be useful.

Another benefit to a list and wiki: it should help the learning process. 

I've been studying Tkinter with an eye to using it to protoype new GUI ideas 
for a commercial application we have written in Java (and for my own 
enjoyment, of course!).  My thought is that we could show customers several 
variations on new displays that would take less time to develop in Python than 
just one new display would in Java.   We already use Python for client-server 
communications and a number of other functions, so it's logical to extend its 
use in this way.  (I even wonder whether it might be a good idea to actually 
replace the Java, but that's a topic for another day...). 

I've got a basic GUI set up that opens desired windows, etc.  But I'm at a 
point where I need functionality. For example, I need to be able to fetch 
information from a server and display it in real time in a Tkinter widget.  
And this is where I hit a roadbloack: the Tkinter documentation I've read so 
far (Fredrik Lundh's on-line guide, the UNM.edu book, and some others) talk 
exclusively about how to draw widgets, not how to *use* widgets. 

If the proposed list / wiki addresses those needs, it will certainly be useful 
to *me*, and probably to many others. 

Maybe it will even spur some renewed interest in expanding or extending the 
widget set.

cheers
Stewart


-- 
Stewart Midwinter
Calgary, Alberta
stewart 'at' midwinter 'dot' ca







From sarmin_kho at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 04:31:06 2004
From: sarmin_kho at yahoo.com (sarmin kho)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:31:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: changing the python executable icon 
Message-ID: <20040326093106.97595.qmail@web9802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Pythoners,
 
i remember that i saw posting about changing the icon of a python executable but i kind of lost where to find the posting... basically, this is my first time using the py2exe to create python executable... it came out with an executable file with an icon that i would like to change... 
 
any guide please...
 
many thanks Pythoners...



---------------------------------
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From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 19:26:32 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:26:32 -0800
Subject: [OT] about OO concepts
In-Reply-To: <4069ee6b$0$8912$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>	<8ef9bea6.0403282102.632ae427@posting.google.com>
	<4069ee6b$0$8912$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <406A1038.1050102@mlug.missouri.edu>


> Well, last time I tried to explain OOP I started with the 'object' 
> concept (object = id + state + behavior), then came to the 'class' 
> concept, first defined as 'a class is the set of objects that share 
> the same behavior'. It's hard to tell because no two brains works the 
> same, but it seemed that the person I was trying to teach OO found 
> this approach quite clear...

I always teach the object concept by putting objects into real world 
terms. An object is a car, cup, or bowling ball. Each has properties 
that help define what the object is. Color, weight, or size. Each also 
has methods which are things which the object can do. Start it's engine, 
be sipped from, or be rolled. Even novice programmers can pick that 
concept up pretty easily. Classes take a little more work. Just 
explaining that there could be different types of cars which in turn are 
different types of vehicles but that certain design aspects are often 
the same. I just explain a class as being a design for an object and 
that when you instantate an objectit's like manufacturing something from 
a design. Most people grasp the idea pretty quickly when put into such 
non-abstract terms. I might explain polymorphism as something like 
different brands of the same item. Your car can use generic tires that 
cost $50 or stylishh tires that cost $500. As long as they follow 
certain design rules they are interchangable parts but they can differ 
greatly  outside those rules.

Maybe it's underestimating people but I think a lot of novices don't 
really understand the abstract ideas we throw at them. I see even 
somewhat experienced coders still avoiding using such things as 
functions and objects. Clearly not good. :)



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar 13 01:49:25 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:49:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyfbrn25ilm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040313064925.57149.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
wrote: > Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:
> 
> > Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> > > How do I force static typing in Python?
> > 
> > You have to enforce it by code instead of
> declaration, i.e. you
> > have to do runtime type checking.
> 
> Just what do you understand "static typing" to mean
> ?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Hmm...that made me think :-)
Anyway, what I want is to force variable declaration.
In perl we have the "use strict vars" pargma...I need
something like that...

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
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From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 11:41:49 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 08:41:49 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>

"Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote in message news:<UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)
> 
> (1) deeply nested loops
> 
> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>     if (/* some test */) goto END;
> 
> END: /* continue */;
> 
> and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> 
> BEGIN:
> for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;
> 
> What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
> 'goto' command?
> 
> Thanks.

Step away from the computer slowly . . .

There is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to use GOTO in any modern
language, ESPECIALLY Python, EVER!

No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.


From k.robert at gmx.de  Tue Mar 23 13:19:13 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:19:13 +0100
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
References: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
	<mailman.291.1080059607.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3pv3g$2l0r$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>

at http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/active/html/python.html I learned the robot
"The Python Robot" is maintained by www.python.org.

Thus I don't want to completely block it, if it is a regular bot. But the
volume increased over last months: 25x more than googlebot. that mad me
stunn.

Here is the top of my robot stats list for this month (22. of this month):

The Python Robot 2948 241.97 MB 22.03.2004 - 23:43
Googlebot (Google) 491+101 11.06 MB 22.03.2004 - 14:37
Scooter (AltaVista) 228+228 4.35 MB 22.03.2004 - 21:59
WISENutbot (Looksmart) 426+8 4.42 MB 22.03.2004 - 21:51


Or is "The Python Robot"  a fake robot and i'd have to check the IP? Cannot
imagine.

the page above says:

Name  The Python Robot
Cover Page  http://www.python.org/
Details Page
Operational Status  retired

"retired" at 241MB in 22 days ?  I know some pensioners become very busy at
60+ ...

Robert


"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.291.1080059607.742.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Robert> I have python related stuff on some of my web pages.  This
month
>     Robert> "The Python Robot" is going for over 400 MB / 4000 accesses
>     Robert> downloads in my stats ! increasing frequency the last months!?
>     Robert> thats 25x more than Google Bot & Inktomi Slurp - the second
>     Robert> loquacious.
>
>     Robert> These numbers a going to cause substantial server cost. Why
does
>     Robert> "The Python Robot" need to scan my pages 20 times a day? How
can
>     Robert> I cool down this special bot a little bit ( robots.txt ? )
>
> What's "The Python Robot"?  Have you contacted the author/maintainer?
Have
> you tried blocking the IP address it's coming from?  If it's ill-behaved
> there's a good chance it will ignore robots.txt.
>
> Skip
>
>




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 14 10:32:11 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 10:32:11 -0500
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
References: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c31ttr$ahj$1@panix3.panix.com>

[posted & e-mailed]

In article <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f at posting.google.com>,
Swaroop C H <python at g2swaroop.net> wrote:
>
>	I have a written a book on Python which serves as a tutorial or
>guide for anyone who wants to learn Python. It specifically targets
>beginners but experienced programmers can benefit a lot with the
>special notes for them.

Looks good!  I've added a link on http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html

The two big things missing at this point are iterators/generators and
new-style classes.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From pyabo at novamens.com  Tue Mar  9 07:25:11 2004
From: pyabo at novamens.com (Pablo Yabo)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:25:11 -0300
Subject: Free references
Message-ID: <00b701c405d1$92486be0$2601a8c0@hq.novamens.com>

Hi,
I wrote bindings to customize a GUI application.
Python is only used to to edit some stuff, it is initilized calling
Py_Initialize() and after the edition is called Py_Finalize().
The problem that I'm having is that after calling Py_Finalize the memory
allocated by Python doesn't free. In the console appears a message "[370190
refs]".
I don't know if my bindings have leaks (could be) but I want to free all the
references after the edition to minimize the impact.
Is that possible.

Thanks on advance,

Pablo Yabo





From user_77 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 22:18:34 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:18:34 GMT
Subject: feval similar to Matlab
Message-ID: <eiN8c.344132$Po1.301096@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

I have to (re)write a matlab program in a language of my choice (it's for a
numerical analysis class) and it uses feval.  I was wondering if there's any
python module that works similarly (to feval).  It would save me a lot of
hassle. :)

Thanks for any and all help,
Wr





From ggg at zzz.it  Wed Mar 10 08:26:20 2004
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:26:20 +0100
Subject: Unicode and rdf
In-Reply-To: <9L6dnSQDVMjVjtLdRVn-jA@speakeasy.net>
References: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
	<9L6dnSQDVMjVjtLdRVn-jA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <18an2c.eia.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

>>I'm trying to parse the rdf dumps from dmoz.org (Open Directory
>>Project) and am having great difficulty just getting Python to read
>>the files.  The files are RDF in UTF-8 encoding according to the
>>dmoz.org web site, but I get the following error:
> 
> Oh dear.   
> 
> Around 2001/2002 I worked on Python code for processing dmoz dumps, but gave
> up because the data was so bad -- some categories included content in
> various Chinese encodings despite the file's claim to be UTF-8.  I
> eventually gave up because debugging a program that fails after running for
> six hours is really, really tedious.

unfortunately it seems that some encoding issues are still there, i've 
written this little script to convert RDF/XML dmoz.org dump in turtle 
(really ntriples in UTF-8) using rdflib but it fails after
700 lines or so:

from rdflib.TripleStore import TripleStore as Store
from rdflib.BNode import BNode
from rdflib.Literal import Literal

from purple.quoting import quote

store = Store()
store.load('file:structure.rdf')

import codecs
outfile = codecs.open('structure.ttl', 'w', 'utf-8')

for triple in store.triples((None, None, None)):

     s = triple[0]
     if isinstance(s, BNode): # URI of bNode?
        s = '%s' % s
     else:
        s = '<%s>' % s

     p = triple[1]

     o = triple[2]
     if isinstance(o, Literal): # URI, bNode or Literal?
        if o.language:
           o = '"%s"@%s' % (quote(o), o.language)
        elif o.datatype:
           o = '"%s"^^<%s>' % (quote(o), o.datatype)
        else:
           o = '"%s"' % quote(o)
     elif isinstance(o, BNode):
        o = '%s' % o
     else:
        o = '<%s>' % o

     outfile.write('%s <%s> %s .\n' % (s, p, o))


outfile.close()




but it stops giving:

xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException:file:///D|/TMPSTU%7E1/dmoz.org/structure. 
rdf:712:45: not well-formed (invalid token)

i'm gonna try this script with musicbrainz datadump and see if
the UTF-8 data is encoded better.

-- 
@prefix foaf: <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
<#me> a foaf:Person ; foaf:nick "deelan" ;
foaf:weblog <http://www.deelan.com/> .


From roy at panix.com  Wed Mar 17 22:37:36 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:37:36 -0500
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-DCA15A.22373617032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto at 4ax.com>,
 droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:

> Thanks Roy!
> 
> Could you please show me an alternative and better way of doing it?
> tia
> 
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:22:41 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> 
> >In article <h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa at 4ax.com>,
> > droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:
> >
> >> I was looking for the simpliest way of doing it. This is what I tried
> >> to do. 
> >> 
> >> f = open('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt', 'r')
> >> counter = 0
> >> while True:
> >> 	line = f.readline()
> >> 	if len(line) == 0:
> >> 		break
> >> 	if line.find('customer'):
> >> 		counter = counter + 1
> >> 		print 'Found it ' + str(counter)
> >
> >I cut-and-pasted the above onto my machine (just changed the pathname to 
> >/usr/share/dict/words).  It finds every line in the file!  The problem 
> >appears to be that the find() method returns -1 when there's no match, 
> >which tests as True.  Other than that, the code seems pretty reasonable.
> 

The basic code you've got seems reasonable, other than the find() bug.  
Perhaps not the cleanest or most efficient, but reasonable.  Try 
changing the test to something like "if line.find ('customer') != -1:" 
and see what happens.

If you wanted to be faster, I'd look at the "re" (regular expression) 
module.  You could do something like:

(outside your mail loop)
prog = re.compile ('customer')

then the test inside your loop would be something:
if prog.match (line):

Note: I'm doing this from memory, so I may have messed up the details a 
bit.  Check out the documentation for the re module.  Unfortunately, 
it's one of the more complex modules, so the documentation may be a bit 
obtuse to somebody just getting into the language.

Now that I think about it, given that you're looking for a constant 
string, I'm not even sure using re will be any faster.  But try it both 
ways and time it to find out!


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 14:18:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:18:31 -0800
Subject: Import config into global space?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403310820.4d46c8dd@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>
	<c4dh8i$q5s$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0403310820.4d46c8dd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4f5ob$fsb$1@news.service.uci.edu>

simo wrote:
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> [global import from file]
> 
> 
>>from config import *
> 
> 
> Oh man! I can't believe it was that simple and I didn't think of it!
> 
> Actually, I've gone with the config.variable syntax for now anyway, it
> actually makes more sense as I don't have to name my variables like
> fontsize_config to differentiate them.


In general, "from module import *" is generally frowned upon, if only 
because it can clobber your module's namespace.  There are certainly 
exceptions, but namespaces are useful.

  - Josiah


From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Fri Mar 26 03:07:42 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:07:42 +0100
Subject: Zope + Python thread safety
Message-ID: <8954295963.20040326090742@anonym.hu>

Hello !

I have been created a Zope (Python) Product.
But it is must store inner global definitions (some conversion
parameters), what I need to change in only one thread, or only once.

See below.

So: because the Zope is threaded application, the threads are use this
product. Possible in same time.

Question: the python variable setting/checking is thread-safe ?

In Delphi, or C, with threaded application I must acquire/release a lock, when I
check/set/read any variable (except integer), like this (pseudo):

lock=Lock
func ReadVar():string;
 lock.Enter;
 try
  Result:=GlobalVar;
 finally
  lock.Leave;
end;

proc WriteVar(val:string);
 lock.Enter;
 try
  GlobalVar:=val;
 finally
  lock.Leave;
end;

This way is make the variable using thread-safe, because avoid to
thread A read while thread B is write (and subsections of the
information are confusing by another thread).

My code in python:

A. version)

def __init__(self):
    self.Fmts=[['date','%m/%d/%Y'],['time','%H:%M.%S']]
    # default is for hungarian

def SetConversionFormats(self,Fmts):
    s1=str(Fmts)
    s2=str(self.Fmts)
    if (s1<>s2)):
       self.Fmts=Fmts

B. version)

def __init__(self):
    self.DefFmts=[['date','%Y.%m.%d'],['time','%H:%M.%S']]
    # default is for hungarian
    self.Fmts=None

def SetConversionFormats(self,Fmts):
    if self.Fmts==None: self.Fmts=Fmts
       

Usage:
 updsqlobj=context.updsqlobj()
 updsqlobj.SetConversionFormats([['date','%Y.%m.%d'],['time','%H:%M.%S']],True)
 updsqlobj.GenerateUpdateSQL(..)
 updsqlobj.Apply(..)

The Fmts is a list.

I want to set the parameters of Product in only once, but because the
Zope is threaded app, I must thinking in thread-safe programming methods.

Question1:
  The code above is thread safe ? (I think, it is not)
Question2:
  If it is not thread safe, how to set this variable without global
  lock/mutex object ?
Question3:
  Or how to I set this object's parameters as property, in Designer
  interface of Zope ?

Please help me, if possible !

Thanx for it, and for every advance:

-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                          mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Mar 24 12:44:44 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:44:44 -0300
Subject: String formatting with floats... can't get it!
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837B4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>


With an int:

>>> '%d' % 4
'4'
>>> '%.2d' % 4
'04'
>>> '%2d' % 4
' 4'
>>> '%2.2d' % 4
'04'


But with a float:

>>> '%f' % 2.33
'2.330000'
>>> '%.2f' % 2.33
'2.33'
>>> '%2.f' % 2.33
' 2'
>>> '%2.2f' % 2.33
'2.33'

Why in this last line I don't get ' 2.33'?

I'm using Python 2.3.3 on Linux.

Thank you!

.	Facundo



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 13:36:31 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:36:31 -0600
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <16485.51631.684552.947293@montanaro.dyndns.org>


       [snip summary of changes]

    Roger> I now have code that works for me and my project.  However it
    Roger> wouldn't really be appropriate for going back into the standard
    Roger> library because it spends most of its time having to subvert the
    Roger> design and implementation of the existing classes.

    Roger> However I was wondering if anyone was working on fixing the (IMHO
    Roger> horrible) mess and wants any moral support?

Sounds like you've done most of the work already.  Why not post a few
patches to SF for the various affected modules?

Skip




From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 04:36:09 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:36:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Almost Done: Need some Help in Generating FEATURE VECTORS
Message-ID: <20040305093609.43810.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I want to map my document vectors to n dimensional
feature space.

All I have to do is to:

Part 1. Take emails, parse them, generate a dictionary
of words from spams.

Part 2. When a new email arrives: I have to do this:

Parse the new email. Check all the words of this new
email from my dictionary.

For example: My dictionary has words like this:

1. Hi
2. Bye
3. you 
4. cola
5. pepsi
6. viagra
7. weight


Suppose a new email arrives and I parse it and get the
following body in a file.

"Hi How is viagra. Loose weight"
total number of words=6

I have to compare this body with the words in
dictionary and create a feature vector like this:

Index: --> words in the email

1:--> for 'Hi'
6:--> for 'viagra'
7:--> for 'weight'

Feature Vector for the email:

[1:1/6 6:1/6 7:1/6 ]
 
since each of the word appears only once and the total
number of words are 6.

-----------------------------------------------------

I have been able to do Part1: Get an email, parse it,
remove html headers, get payload and generate a
dictionary.

What I dont know is this:


a)- How to strip off blanks spaces and characters like
^M from my dictionary
b)- How to remove numbers from my dictionary
c)- How to remove To, From and Message ID headers frm
my dictionary

The real important ones where I really need help is:

d)- How to compare the words from the payload of the
new email message, which I write in a another file
with the dictionary indexes

e)- How to create the feature vector I talked about in
part 2 above

I know these are not difficult but its a matter of
ignorance because I am new bie with Python. I choose
Python instead of Java because I heard parsing emails
is really easy and which is true.

I would really appreciate if some one can give me a
hand in that.

Thanks

Doon't


-------------------------------------------------
My code for parsing emails and generating dictionary
are here: emailparser.py and dictionary.py
--------------------------------------------------
#emailparser.py

#!/usr/local/bin/py


import string, StringIO, sys
import mailbox, email, re


def parse_mail(msg):
    if msg.is_multipart():
        pass
    else:
        # Get the parts of the message
	body = msg.get_payload()

	for hdr in msg.keys():
		if hdr.startswith('From'):
			del msg[hdr]
		if hdr.startswith('To'):
			del msg[hdr]
		if hdr.startswith('Received'):
			del msg[hdr]
		if hdr.startswith('X-'):
			del msg[hdr]






        # process the body to remove html messages<>
	body=re.sub(r'<[^>]*>','',body)

        return(body)

if __name__ == '__main__':

    if len(sys.argv) == 1:
        print """
        emailparser.py MBOX_FILE

        """
        sys.exit(0)

    f = open(sys.argv[1],'r')
    mbox =
mailbox.UnixMailbox(f,email.message_from_file)
    f1 = open('output','w')


    num = 0
    while 1:
        num = num+1
        try:
            msg = mbox.next()
        except email.Errors.HeaderParseError:
            print 'Current mail (num = '+str(num)+')
seems to have a parse error. Skipping'
            continue

        if not msg: break

        if msg.is_multipart():
            print 'Skipping a multipart email (num
'+str(num)+')'
            continue
        s = parse_mail(msg)

    f1.write(s)
    f1.close()


#------------------------------------------------------


#dictionary.py

# python code for creating dictionary of words

import os
import sys
import re

try:
	fread = open(sys.argv[1], 'r')
except IOError:
	print 'Cant open file for reading'
	sys.exit(0)
print 'Okay reading the file'
s=""
fread.seek(0,2)
c=fread.tell()

fread.seek(0)
d=fread.tell()

a=fread.read(1)

while(fread.tell()!=c):

		s=s+a
		b=fread.tell()

		a=fread.read(1)
		if(a=='\012'): #newline
			#print s
			#print 'The Line Ends'
			fwrite=open('dictionary', 'a')
			fwrite.write(s)
			s=""

		if(a=='\040'): #blank character
			#print s
			fwrite=open('dictionary', 'a')
			fwrite.write(s)
			fwrite.write("\n")
			s=""

print 'Wrote to Dictionary\n'
fwrite.close()
fread.close()

#------------------------------------------------------


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Mar 24 11:39:51 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:39:51 -0800
Subject: class methods and variables
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F48@opus.amorhq.net>

Niurka wrote:
> Having the class Name, is there any way to obtain the class 
> methods or even the
> variables it has defined?
> Is there in python something like the Java reflection?

Start with the builtin function dir():

>>> class C(object):
... 	var1 = 3
... 	var2 = 'lifeboat'
... 	def mangle(self, thing):
... 		return thing * self.var1
... 	
>>> dir(C)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__',
'__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__',
'mangle', 'var1', 'var2']

               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From bugsyboy9 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  7 23:54:54 2004
From: bugsyboy9 at yahoo.com (Bugsyboy9)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 20:54:54 -0800
Subject: Final Project - GUI front-end - Accessing and returning data from a
	file
Message-ID: <433f4c9a.0403072054.3dcc27a6@posting.google.com>

I a newcomer to Python mainly because I am taking a college course so
it is sink or swim for the grade.  Anyway, my final project is to
develop a GUI interface for an inventory search database.  I have
somewhat of a start but am having issues with accessing an inventory
file (with generic data at this point) and returning the requested
information.

Essentially, I want to have a GUI front-end asking the user for what
inventory item they are looking for, have them click an enter button,
have the code search a file for the requesters string and return the
information within the same GUI front-end.


Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 19 03:40:11 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 09:40:11 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
	<donn-60551B.16462317032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <tyf65d18c2c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> Speaking of which, Haskell's type system supports type classes
> like Num (number), where Int and Float are instances of Num
> that implement its "+" function.

This is pretty much what you'd do in OCaml too, I believe.

> I'm probably leaving out a paragraph or two of the interesting
> parts, but the end result is that 1.5 + 1 works.  Haskell is not
> weakly typed.

But the point is that the programmer conrols whether the automatic
conversion is done or not. In weakly typed languages you get the
conversion whether you want it or not.


From olku at web.de  Wed Mar 17 07:06:40 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:06:40 +0100
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation 
Message-ID: <200403171206.i2HC6eQ24413@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hello,

I just discovered a "bug" in the imaplib.

I want to send the following command to the imap-server and I was suprised to get a error. :-)

The command:

UID STORE 2349672398 +FLAGS (\SEEN)

IMAP4 makes from this command:

UID STORE 2323423233 "+FLAGS(\SEEN)"

This is not valid (http://community.roxen.com/developers/idocs/rfc/rfc3501.html)

So ... is there a fix for this problem? Or have someone a workaround f?r this problem? 

I call the uid like this

uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")

--
Oliver?Kurz




From inkedmn at inkedmn.com  Sat Mar 27 00:22:56 2004
From: inkedmn at inkedmn.com (Brett Kelly)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:22:56 -0800
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.27.05.22.56.413308@inkedmn.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:16:29 -0800, sean wrote:

> Is there a good module for sending out email?
> 
> For a website that I am working on, I am writing a program that finds out
> which presenters have not yet confirmed their scheduled date and sends them
> an email to confirm.
> 
> Does python have any modules for use with mail programs like sendmail, or
> should I just run everything with os.system and os.popen?
> 
> Thanks for any help.

Check out smtplib, it should do what you want

Good Luck,
Brett



From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Mar 11 07:52:17 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 04:52:17 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403110452.4e79fe5a@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> beliavsky> Is there a more recent set of Python style guidelines than
>     beliavsky> PEP 8, "Style Guide for Python Code", by van Rossum and
>     beliavsky> Warsaw, at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html , which
>     beliavsky> is dated July 5, 2001?
> 
> Is there something missing you think should be there?  There's no particular
> reason a PEP needs to be continually updated.  In particular, notions of
> good Python style haven't changed a lot over the past ten years.
> 
> Skip

I am not qualified to say what should be in Python style guidelines. I
have now read the PEP 8 style guidelines and see that Python versions
up to 2.3 are covered. I think the Post-History date of July 5, 2001
is incorrect and should be updated.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 13 23:24:59 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:24:59 -0500
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
In-Reply-To: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEFPJIAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[montezum]
> where can I find Paris Hilton video?

comp.lang.perl.misc



From wolfke99 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 13:07:29 2004
From: wolfke99 at hotmail.com (mephisto)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 10:07:29 -0800
Subject: Can this be done with python?
Message-ID: <8ee9ed23.0403231007.5805e675@posting.google.com>

Hi guys, 

I found out python may be a good language to learn for a beginner. I
do wonder however if the following can be done in a created gui:

-have a button opening a 'open file' dialog, eg when I need a user to
search for an image

-create a tree that can be adjusted by the user (eg adding a branch)

-the gui builders, can they create windows xp style I can skin with eg
stylexp or another skinning program?

Thanks for answers :)


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 10:25:05 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:25:05 +0100
Subject: Calling C programs
In-Reply-To: <c27eqc$jij$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
References: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk> <4047258C.9080808@zoran.com>
	<c27eqc$jij$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c27hmv$1r1$1@swifty.westend.com>

C GIllespie schrieb:
>>print popen("/tmp/hello").read()
> What about if I want to pass an argument?

Via commandline? This way:

print popen("/tmp/hello anArgument").read()

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Wed Mar 17 15:39:17 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:39:17 +0100
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
In-Reply-To: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

o'seally schreef:

> [rant]
> ___________________________________________
> Moses Motlhale - Solutions Architect
> 24th Century Solutions, South Africa.

Well, I had use CTRL-F to find the references to python --
my first impression was that python was not even referred to in
any way. Still, the question that comes to mind is:

exactly what solution are you trying to find
for exactly what python problem?

Ruud de Jong, private python enthousiast



From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Fri Mar 12 04:05:10 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:05:10 +0100
Subject: Question concerning Unicode and or Shift-JIS
References: <4050f410$0$40740$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <c2ru17$mdd$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Antioch wrote:
 > Ok, so Im a newb python programmer and I'm trying to create a simple python
 > web-application. The program is simply going to read in pairs of words, parse
 > them into a dictionary file, then randomly display the key and prompt the
 > user for the correct answer. Basically, its a digital flash card system with
 > a modular "dictionary" file.
 >
 > The problem is this: I'm trying to create this program to help me study
 > foregin languages (specifically Japanese at the moment) and when I save the
 > txt file which houses the word pairs, it is automatically encoded into UTF.
 > However, when getting user input, the input it natively sent to the program
 > in Shift-JIS encoding. I downloaded CJKcodecs for python to encode a string
 > into any number of Japanese codings, however the problem is I don't know how
 > to "decode" the UTF and then recode it into Shift-JIS so that I can compare
 > the dictionary values with the input values. OR, I could convert the input
 > from Shift-JIS to UTF, but either way I don't know how to decode any of the
 > codecs. I'm sure theres just some simple function call, but I have been
 > unable to find it.
 >
 > Anyhelp would be appreciated! Thanks =)

If s is a string encoded in UTF-8, converting it in Shift-JIS will be something 
like:

s2 = unicode(s, 'utf-8').encode('shift-jis')

For the reverse:

s = unicode(s2, 'shift-jis').encode('utf-8')

You have to make sure s contains only valid japanese characters or the encoding 
/ decoding to / from Shift-JIS will fail and you'll get a ValueError exception.

For further details, see the unicode function @ 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-71 , the decode 
and encode methods on strings @ 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html and the codecs module 
@ http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codecs.html

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar 22 15:46:01 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:46:01 -0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>

In article <7xisgxt51r.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>assaf__ at walla.com writes:
>> I am beginning to work on a fairly large project and I'm considering
>> to use python for most of the coding, but I need to make sure first
>> that it is reliable enough.
>> 
>> I need to make sure that I won't have surprises when my program runs
>> on different real-world systems. So far I wrote a little script with
>> python using urllib, and on one computer it failed completely
>> because of a problem in getting the proxies (in my opinion this is a
>> bug). How likely are such things to happen and how often, and to
>> what extent are they more prevalent in python in comparison to C++?
>
>The Python language is in general well-designed and much more concise
>than C++.  A big program in C++ may map to a much smaller Python
>program, turning a large project into a small project, and making it
>less relevant whether Python works for large projects.
>
>Python's library does have a lot of small gaps like the one you found
>in urllib.  As the Twisted Matrix documentation puts it, you find
>yourself re-inventing the wheel a lot, because you discover that the
>existing wheels are often square and made of glue.
>
>> If python is indeed suitable for large projects, how common is it to
>> actually use if for such purposes? Is there perhaps a list of
>> examples of real projects using python?
>
>The canonical example of a complex Python project is Zope
>(www.zope.com).  It's medium sized by the standards of big C++
>projects, but as mentioned, a medium amount of Python code can
>implement functionality that would take a much larger amount of C++.
>
>Because Python is interpreted and highly dynamic, Python programs tend
>to run slower than comparable C++ programs.  Whether that's a problem
>for you depends on your application.  If you have specific Python
>functions that are bottlenecks, you can re-implement them in C and
>call them through Python's C API.  There's also a semi-experimental
>native-code Python compiler called Psyco that produces a considerable
>speedup at the cost of increased memory consumption.  The
>next-generation Python implementation (PyPy or Python in Python) will
>reportedly use Psyco or something simliar, in a more fundamental way.
>
>In short, there's not a quick and simple answer to your question of
>whether Python is right for what you're doing.  It's great for lots of
>things, not so hot for some others, and is still evolving rather
>quickly, so an unsuitable application today may become suitable in a
>forthcoming release.

You might also have occasion to learn about Pyrex and
... well, I'm in the Trotskyite wing on this question.
It's not just that Python can work for large projects.
I sincerely regard it as an even *better* comparative
choice on large projects; C++ and Java, the usual com-
petition, show all sorts of blemishes when one scales
the size of the project.  Python remains usable, even
at the high end.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:29:57 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:29:57 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-959027.13550629032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-08FC49.15285529032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<IxadnfsAQfpRV_Td38DK-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <donn-4D511B.12295630032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <IxadnfsAQfpRV_Td38DK-w at speakeasy.net>,
 "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com> wrote:
...
> In practice, when does one use P_NOWAIT and then waitpid(), instead of
> P_WAIT? I'm guessing the answer is "if you want to do something between the
> spawing and the waiting," but is there a standard use I haven't learned yet?

Yes, that's the idea.

   Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From NAVMSE-FLEXOHINER at flexohiner.com  Fri Mar 26 20:06:03 2004
From: NAVMSE-FLEXOHINER at flexohiner.com (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-FLEXOHINER)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:06:03 -0800
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent.  The inf
	ected attachment was deleted.
Message-ID: <219201362C59D511A48700D0B72196A82505B8@www.flexohiner.com>

Recipient of the infected attachment:  Hiner, Harry\Inbox
Subject of the message:  Re: Approved document
One or more attachments were deleted
  Attachment about_you.zip was Deleted for the following reasons:
    Virus W32.Netsky.P at mm was found.
    Virus W32.Netsky.P at mm was found in details.txt
.pif.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 1855 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040326/437ae37c/attachment.bin>

From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Wed Mar  3 15:10:41 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 12:10:41 -0800
Subject: Windows NT Service and Sockets
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0403031210.6d1d7abc@posting.google.com>

How can I used WaitForMultipleObjects() with sockets?  The code (shown
below) respresents a very simple echo server using sockets.  I need
WaitForMultipleObjects() so I can wait for both a new connection and
the stop command from the service manager.

Your help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks. 

Olaf


    def SvcDoRun(self):
        sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
        sock.bind(('localhost', 53574))
        sock.listen(1)
        
        connection, addr = sock.accept()
        data = connection.recv(1024)
        connection.send(data)
        connection.close()
        
        # We do nothing other than wait to be stopped!
        win32event.WaitForSingleObject(self.hWaitStop,
win32event.INFINITE)


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Mar 20 15:05:03 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:05:03 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
> apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
> to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
> files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
> JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.

Modulo other dependencies also being installed as well.

You can do the same thing with Python.  Just package up the source
files as a zip.

   $ PYTHONPATH=example.zip python main.py

You are considering Python .pyc files and Java class files to be
the same thing.  They aren't.  pyc files are a behind the scenes
implementation detail of one version of the Python interpreter
that are automatically generated and maintained.

Java class files are how you distribute a collection of Java code.
A zip of Python source files is how you distribute Python code
(you can also do it more formally as packages, installers etc).

Roger




From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 21:59:54 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:59:54 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9@simonxp>
References: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9@simonxp>
Message-ID: <4068E2AA.2090106@stackless.com>

Simon Wittber wrote:

>>A list 10 million integers suck up ~160 megs of memory with Python.
> 
> 
> Sorting a list of 10000000 integers sounds like a job for Numeric.
> 
> The below code does the job in 22 seconds. Numeric consumes ~40MB for
> the initial array, then grabs another ~40MB, once the sorting starts.
> Its about as lean as you can get it.

Nice solution.
Although not as general.
I also don't see how you can get along with sorting integers?
We are handling lots of strings.
And as said in another place, sorting is theoretically
inefficient, if you are asking for clusters of equality.
Maybe you should provide some definition of "the job".

ciao - chris

p.s.; this is the last time I manually will remove a "nospam"
email entry. Who should remove all the spam mailings, if people
like you don't help with it? :-)

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From spam at butschek-consult.de  Fri Mar 19 07:06:01 2004
From: spam at butschek-consult.de (Holger Butschek)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:06:01 +0100
Subject: Zope with Python
Message-ID: <c3ennc$26ip36$1@ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hy,

I'm using following code.

<dtml-in expr="sqlBestandGetKuerzel(KURZFORM='B',BEREICH='01')">
  B/<dtml-var RUBRIK>/<dtml-var expr="_.math.int(ANZAHL) + 1">
</dtml-in>

Whats wrong with it. I'm always getting the following error:
Error Type: AttributeError
Error Value: 'math' module has no attribute 'int'

Can anybody help me please.

Bye,
Holger




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 29 14:02:41 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:02:41 +0200
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
References: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c48153$909$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c48ho9$d69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c48nu8$smj$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<494182a9.0403290932.5e09cfc6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c49rsh$c5l$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Balaji wrote:

> Suppose if some body wants to assign an e=E() to an expression class..
> he may define then e=v+v1(where v and v1 both belong to a variable class)
> now again if we define say v2=V() and then try to multiply v2 with e then
> I want to raise an error that it is a nonlinear term..
> 
> So  what I though was if i keep track of all the instances id then I might
> raise an exception...
> 
> But the problem was i couldnt check the right side of an assigment...

I'm not sure what you mean - my guess is entirely different from Christan's
- but anyway:

I suppose you want an expression 

a operator b

to either raise an exception or return a new expression and base this
decision on both the kind of a and b. You can do this by providing a lookup
table with all allowed operations (or all forbidden ops, if that is
significantly smaller). Here's the simplest implementation I could think
of:

<expr.py>
import sets

supported = sets.Set([
    # operation, leftoperand, rightoperand
    ("+","v", "v"),
    ("+","+", "v"),
    ("+","v", "+"),
    ("+","+", "+"),
    ("*","v", "v"),
    # complete with all allowed
    # combinations of operators/values
    ])

class Base:
    """Shared implementation for Expressions and Values """
    def op(self, operator, other):
        if (operator, self.operator, other.operator) in supported:
            return Expression(operator, self, other)
        else:
            raise ValueError("unsupported operation")

    def __add__(self, other):
        return self.op("+", other)

    def __mul__(self, other):
        return self.op("*", other)

    # add __div__ etc. here

class Expression(Base):
    def __init__(self, operator, left, right):
        self.operator = operator
        self.left = left
        self.right = right

    def __str__(self):
        return str(self.left) + self.operator + str(self.right)

class Value(Base):
    operator = "v"
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.value = value
    def __str__(self):
        return "Value(%s)" % self.value

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print Value(3) * Value(4)
    print Value(1) + Value(2) + Value(3)
    print Value(1) + Value(2) * Value(3) # will raise an exception
</expr.py>


Peter



From fred.mailhot at videotron.ca  Tue Mar 30 17:22:39 2004
From: fred.mailhot at videotron.ca (Fred Mailhot)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:22:39 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
	<40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com>
	<4064C072.62D8E489@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403290426.5aca2b2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BC8F332F.130C3%fred.mailhot@videotron.ca>

On 3/29/04 4:26 AM, "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

>>> Consider for instance the following definition:
>>> * all strings and numbers are called "well-founded"
>>> * a list is called well-founded if and only if all its elements are
>>> well-founded.
>>> 
>>> l=[]
>>> l.append(l)
>>> Is l well-founded? Both answers "yes" and "no" are consistent with the
>>> above definition.
>> 
>> No they aren't, since l's first element is a list, not a string or
>> number.
> 
> The above definition does not require that the first element of a
> well-founded list be a string or number. It could also be a
> well-founded list.

Seems to me that the example given makes it clear that l is not
well-founded. Look at it step by step:

(1) >>> l = []

at this stage, l is *not* well-founded, since it's a list with no elements,
and the definition explicitly states that a well-founded list is a list
containing all and only well-founded elements, and the only thing other than
lists that can be well-founded are strings and numbers.

(2) >>> l.append(l)

at this stage, l is *still* not well-founded, since all it contains is a
list that we've already seen is not well-founded (cf. the original
definition)...


Fred.



From eltronic at juno.com  Tue Mar  2 00:54:52 2004
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:54:52 -0500
Subject: detecting the operating system
Message-ID: <20040302.080308.-248869.0.eltronic@juno.com>


On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:16:16 -0000 "James Kew" <james.kew at btinternet.com>
writes:
> "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message
> news:c1thq4$129$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
> > > os.path.expanduser("~") ?
> >
> > Doesn't work for all platforms.  Occasionally in windows that 
> will
> > expand to %USERPROFILE%, which you then have to resolve with 
> os.getenv.
> 
> I'm also told (in email) it doesn't work under Win98.
> 
win98, in autoexec.bat & reboot. or use msconfig
set HOME=c:/Temp/orwhatever

print os.path.expanduser("~")
c:/Temp/orwhatever

e

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 17:10:33 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:10:33 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com><1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com><roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com><58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com><c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<mailman.112.1080651548.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ufmac.74870$cx5.33629@fed1read04>

> Is that April the 7th or July the 4th?

Sorry for the cultural bigotry.  Make that July.

"Gerrit" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.112.1080651548.20120.python-list at python.org...
Mark Hahn wrote:
> But everything in Prothon is subject to change until > 7/04.

Is that April the 7th or July the 4th?

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:25 UTC:
15.0?C   wind 5.4 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature




From boris.boutillier at arteris.net  Thu Mar 11 05:07:49 2004
From: boris.boutillier at arteris.net (Boris Boutillier)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:07:49 +0100
Subject: File.read() sometimes not reading everything
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.11.10.07.48.456622@arteris.net>

HI all,

I came across a strange behaviour with read method, and I'm not sure if
this is a filesystem problem or a misuse of this method.
I do the simple following thing :
f = open ('myFile','r')
content = f.read()
f.close()

When I use this lines really intensively sometimes, at random the content
is not the full content, it lacks some lines at the end.
When reading the file.read docstring I see that there can be some problems
with non-blocking file, but I suppose open() is by default creating a blocking
file.

Is the file line-buffered by default ? This could be a reason for this
early EOF, as I'm reading all the lines at once, and there is several
lines in the file ?

I'm at the moment trying to replace the previous read call by:
content = '\n'.join(f.readlines)
Not sure if this will work better, I'll say you.

Any other idea of this strange behaviour ? Can this be a problem with
filesystem also ?

Any ideas welcomed !

Boris


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 10:57:15 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:57:15 -0000 
Subject: NT service (setting Description string)
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443475D@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>> <screendump>
>>
>> ActivePython 2.2.3 Build 227 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
>> Python 2.2.3 (#42, Nov 13 2003, 09:57:55) [MSC 32 bit 
>(Intel)] on win32
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
>information.
>> >>> import wmi
>> >>> c = wmi.WMI ()
>> >>> for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="dnscache"): print 
>service.Name,
>> service.DisplayName
>> ...
>> Dnscache DNS Client
>> >>> service.Change (DisplayName="New DNS Client")
>> (<win32com.gen_py.Microsoft WMI Scripting V1.1 Library.ISWbemProperty
>> instance at 0x13968496>,)
>> >>> for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="dnscache"): print 
>service.Name,
>> service.DisplayName
>> ...
>> Dnscache New DNS Client
>> >>>
>>
>> </screendump>
>>
>> TJG
>>
>> 

>Where to get modules for WMT?
>

(Assuming you're referring to WMI, as above):
http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________



From janssen at parc.com  Mon Mar  1 22:54:48 2004
From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:54:48 PST
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:51:26 PST."
	<20040301215126.GF6936@unpythonic.net> 
Message-ID: <04Mar1.195450pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>

> You could use
>     "\xc0".decode("iso-8859-1").encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')

Yes, this is what I'm doing at the moment.  But it seems a real hack.
The string *isn't* in Latin-1; it's binary, it's data, and there
should be a way of saying that.  Maybe a third kind of string type?

Bill



From val at vtek.com  Sun Mar  7 19:20:25 2004
From: val at vtek.com (Val Bykoski)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 16:20:25 -0800
Subject: dynamic names
References: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a312aab6.0403071620.6cc6a5be@posting.google.com>

val at vtek.com (Val Bykoski) wrote in message news:<a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea at posting.google.com>...
> I'm currently in a familiar to many business of filing my tax
> return.  Being a big fan of Python and to make the process less painful, 
> i started by writing my favored schedules A,B,C, and the most favored 
> form 1040 in Python.  Everything was a real fun until i got to the
> very famous motif "add lined Lx to Ly".
> This is my naive (master)piece:
> 
> def sumL(L1,L2):
>    # sum up a range of Ls
>    tot=0.
>    for L in range(L1,L2+1): 
>       #nL=exec("L%s" % L)
>       tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
>    return tot
> 
> pythonw -u "sumL.py"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "sumL.py", line 11, in ?
>     sumL(1,4)
>   File "sumL.py", line 7, in sumL
>     tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str'
> >Exit code: 1
> 
> Any help would be life-saving.
> 
> let's-make-python-a-tax-pain-killer-ly y'rs
> val

It took me 'just' one hour to get 'a' working code: 

def sumL(fromLine=1,toLine=4, dir=[]):
    #
    tot=0.
    
    for name in dir:
        if name.startswith ("L") and int(name[1:]) in range(fromLine,toLine):
            tot=tot+float(eval(name)) 
            print tot
    return tot        

L1=1.; L2=2.; L3=3.
print dir()
print sumL(dir=dir())

The point is that in the tax forms the number of lines to be added is variable,
and i it's a pain to put them in a list. 

Robert, thanks for your help, appreciate very much.
relieving-ly y'rs


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 19 03:25:45 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 09:25:45 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<i3zVAls/K72A089yn@the-wire.com>
	<tyfekrr86zo.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
	<PabWAls/KHie089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <tyfekrp8cqe.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) writes:

> I don't like the idea of rebinding names non-locally.

Though most languages with nested scopes do exactly that (as far as I
am aware).


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 14:54:15 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:54:15 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:42:06 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    David> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when
>    David> what you need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace
>    David> every reference to objects in the old module with references to
>    David> the new objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when
>    David> those references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.
>
> This is where I think your model of how Python works has broken down.
> Objects don't live within modules.  References to objects do.  All objects
> inhabit a space not directly associated with any particular Python
> namespace.  If I execute
>
>    import urllib
>    quote = urllib.quote
>    reload(urllib)
>
>quote and urllib.quote refer to different objects and compare False.  (I
>suppose the cmp() routine for functions could compare code objects and other
[ snip ]

Understood.  When I said "objects in the old module", I should have
said "objects from the old module".  I wasn't making any assumption
about where these objects reside once loaded.  I'm still assuming it
is possible ( even if difficult ) to locate and change all current
references to these objects.  This may require a special "debug" mode
to keep track of this information.

Another "brute force" kind of solution would be to replace the old
objects with links to the new.  Every refence, no matter where it came
from, would be re-routed.  The inefficiency would only last until you
restart the program.

-- Dave



From pascal.parent at free.fr  Mon Mar 29 04:50:03 2004
From: pascal.parent at free.fr (Pascal)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 01:50:03 -0800
Subject: easy verbose in functions
Message-ID: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I've a function like this:
def myfunction(data, verbose = False):
   dothis...
   if verbose: print 'I do this'
   dothisother
   if verbose: print 'I do this other'
   ...

How can I do to exclude eachtime the `if verbose` statement?

I tried `print verbose and 'I do this'` but it's printing `False`.
So I tried with `verbose = None` in the definition, but it's printing None!

Thanks.


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Mar  4 10:41:01 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 15:41:01 GMT
Subject: Examples of using the html parser
References: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c27imd$8jl$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Boogie El Aceitoso  <frr149 at telefonica.net>:
> Were can I find examples of the usege of the html parser class?

M2Crypto has an example in demo/ssl/sess.py. Here's the docstring:

"""M2Crypto.SSL.Session client demo: This program requests a URL from 
a HTTPS server, saves the negotiated SSL session id, parses the HTML 
returned by the server, then requests each HREF in a separate thread 
using the saved SSL session id."""

Note that the code simply instantiates a parser and feeds it the HTML; it
doesn't apply any parsing-related callback.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar  5 18:22:56 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:22:56 -0800
Subject: Almost Done: Need some Help in Generating FEATURE VECTORS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1078479379.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.12.1078479379.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2b29p$7kj$1@news.service.uci.edu>

#First, normalize the line breaks:
email_source = email_source.replace('\r\n', '\n').replace('\r', '\n')

#toss the headers:
pos = email_source.find('\n\n')
if pos != -1:
     email_body = email_source[pos:]
else:
     email_body = email_source

#clean out html:
(use the method given http://flangy.com/dev/python/striphtml.html )

#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = email_body.translate(65*' '+lower+6*' '+lower+133*' ')

words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

#load up external dictionary:
words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
dct = {}
for i in xrange(len(words)):
     dct[words[i]] = i

#make vector:
vector = {}
a = float(len(words_in_body))
for i in words_in_body:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1
         except:
             vector[i] = 1

for i in vector:
     vector[i] /= a



I know the above doesn't fit with what you have, but you should be able 
to adapt it.

  - Josiah


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 13:46:58 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:46:58 -0000
Subject: python-ldap and Sun ONE Directory server
References: <c42jdq$d5g$1@achot.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <106bj12a6vg0p33@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c42jdq$d5g$1 at achot.icm.edu.pl>,
Micha? Kurowski  <mkur at poczta.gazeta.pl> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'd like to ask you whether anyone have built python-ldap against
>Sun ONE Directory v5.2 on a Solaris 9.
>
>Seems developers do not support such config, but many places on the 
>web suggest it *is* possible and I would be a major pitta if I had 
>to kick out my Ldap server now ...
>
>I've got python-ldap-2.0.0pre20 and use gcc 3.3.1.  It complains 
>"ldap_schema.h" cannot be found - and in fact Sun does not have any
>include file of that name.
>
>I just hope it is actually possible ... 
			.
			.
			.
At least one of us is confused, or at least misinterpreting.
Briefly, LDAP is a client-server protocol.  I *think* your
goal is to build applications with the python-ldap client
library, and deploy them against a Sun ONE LDAP server.  In
principal, you can use any correct LDAP client, no matter 
how it was made, against any correct LDAP server.  How does
that fit what you're doing?  

Are you not able to build *any* python-ldap client-side 
library?  We can help with that.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From salvatore at nolog.org  Thu Mar 11 17:04:43 2004
From: salvatore at nolog.org (Salvatore)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:04:43 +0100
Subject: Create static method dynamically
Message-ID: <c2qnop$ung$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Hello,

Here is my problem :

class myClass:
     def addmethod(name,method):
         maClasse.__dict__[name] = method
     addmethod = staticmethod(addmethod)

def hello():
     print "hello"

myClasse.addmethod('hello',hello)


Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in -toplevel-
     myClass.hello()
TypeError: unbound method hello() must be called with myClass instance 
as first argument (got nothing instead)

I would like to make this call:
myClass.hello()

Is there a way of making 'hello' a
static method of 'myClass ?

Regards



From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Sat Mar 27 16:12:24 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 21:12:24 GMT
Subject: import a modified module
References: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
	<mailman.438.1080272287.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5fs8601oef2glokd0i8tbbvso84rrjdku5@4ax.com>
	<c422b1$fo6$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
	<fsa960pr5jc1iqup4cnvb9irg401pepg32@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c44qno$jvi$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
> On 26 Mar 2004 20:03:45 GMT, mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark
> Jackson) wrote:

> I don't understand why the term "references" is suboptimal.  A module
> M1 has a namespace, which is detailed in a dictionary M1.__dict__.
> This dictionary contains _references_ to objects in memory (not the
> objects themselves).  What terminology would be better?

Binding (of names to objects).  To quote Aahz,

> I'm saving up time for a longer response to Donn, but here's a short
> one: I'm not at all opposed to using "reference" and indeed I use it all
> the time.  I just think that using "binding" is preferable in most cases
> because it gets people out of the pointer mindset.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
    The supreme misfortune is when theory outstrips performance.
				- Leonardo da Vinci




From bad_addy at no_domain.com  Thu Mar 25 18:41:24 2004
From: bad_addy at no_domain.com (Tina)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:41:24 GMT
Subject: Inheriting Classes Across Files
Message-ID: <E6K8c.748$Dv2.185@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

In my program I need derived classes to inherit from the super class.

I can do this but I'd like to split the super class into it's own file.

How do you do this? When I split the code I start getting errors.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 19 12:32:12 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:32:12 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3faqo$md7$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
news:c3f1ac$n29$1 at sunnews.cern.ch...
> Hi,
>
> Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python lost
> class static variables values.

Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
mean.

> It seems only to append when importing a "badly" named module that
> itself import a module with a static variable in it (looks complex, but
> see the example below, pretty simple):
>
> First a working example:
> <<<< file: aTest.py
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> import imp
> import A
> name='B'
> fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module(name)
> B=imp.load_module(name, fp, pathname, description)
> a=A.A(1)
> b=B.B()
>  >>>>
>
> <<<< file: A.py
> class A:
>      a=None
>      def __init__(self,a=None):
>          if (a):
>              A.a=a
>      def __str__(self):
>          return str(A.a)
>  >>>>
>
> <<<< file: B.py
> import A
> class B:
>      def __init__(self):
>          a=A.A()
>          print a
>  >>>>
>
> Execution:
> $ ./aTest.py
> 1
>
> The value 1 obtained as expected (A.a is a static value and keept as
such).

Given that you rebound A.a to 1 from None, I especially do not know what
you mean.

> If now I just *rename* file B to B.1, without any change in the code
> (except name='B' become name='B.1' in aTest.py), content of B.1.py file
> being exacty the same as content of B.py, I get:

As you seem to be aware, Python expects modules to have a 'nice' name
consisting of
legal_Python_indentifier.py.  If you evade this, you are a bit on your own
and may run into untested corner cases.

> $ ./aTest.py
> None
>
> Renaming B.py to B.1.py made A unable to keeps the value of it's static
> variable.

It seems to me that it *kept* its original value.  I would put more print
statements into both A.A and B.B and maybe even aTest.py to see where
execution first differs.

> Bug tested with:
> Python 1.5.2
> Python 2.2.2
> Python 2.3.3
>
> Any idea ? Is it well a bug ? Some feature I didnt understood ? I read
> about submodule naminig using dots as separator, but I cant relate it
> towhat I saw here.

import b.b1 would normally mean import file (module) b1 in the b package
directory.  But imp obviously did not find fine '1' in a 'B' directory.

Terry J. Reedy






From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 11:48:56 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:48:56 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3kgmg$280tkl$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> As I mentioned in my previous post, the distiction between the Java VM and
> the Python VM is that the former is delivered separate from the compiler and
> other tools, while the latter is delivered afresh with each Python
> distribution.  

Actually, Sun always bundles Hotspot and javac together in an SDK release.
But yes, you _can_ get and use a compiler separately (Jikes, for example)
from the JVM and there is very little version dependency between the two
(the JVM has stayed the same for a long time now).


> Guido would be free to eliminate the Python VM from the next
> version of Python and instead directly interpret the abstract syntax tree
> emitted by the compiler.  

eh...?  If interpreting the AST isn't what the CPython VM does, then what
does it do?


 > PyChecker and other tools which operate directly with the bytecode would
 > break, but Python applications should still work.

Does this mean that you will need a different version of PyChecker for each
Python .x release?


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Mar 12 01:34:30 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:34:30 -0000
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<mailman.290.1079046207.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405148CB.1030103@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <1079073269.324496@yasure>

Quoth user at domain.invalid:
| Terry Reedy wrote:
|
|> For loops with a break statement, the value of the loop index when the
|> break occurs may be the answer sought or needed to calculate it.  For list
|> comps which cannot have break, it is an artifact which may disappear in
|> 2.4.
|
| If I understand you, I don't think I like this idea. It 
| adds complexity to the mental model of a loop. "The 
| loop variable disappears when the loop ends unless the 
| loop contains a break".
|
| In my opinion, Python should pick a model and stick to 
| it. Loop variables are either ordinary variables that 
| exist until you explicitly delete them, or they are 
| special variables that automagically disappear at the 
| end of the loop. I vote for the first one.

That makes sense to me, but I read "For list comps" as "For list
comprehensions (but not conventional loops.)"  List comprehensions
shouldn't need to have every side effect of the equivalent loop.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar  5 11:42:25 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:42:25 -0500
Subject: zlib - compression
Message-ID: <H522c.18996$qA2.1263026@news20.bellglobal.com>

The zlib doc advises that the most recent version should be used.

The link below indicates:
            Current release:

               zlib 1.2.1

Is it possible that the current release of zlib is included with Python 
2.3?  zlib.pyd has a modified time stamp 03-12-18 20:30

The Dependency Walker reports that zlib.pyd cannot find EFSADU.DLL 
(using windows XP).  None of the modules listed seem to match names in 
the zlib 1.2.1 source.

If the current version is not installed, is it necessary to have a 
compiler to produce zlib.pyd?

I am having a glitch with compression, in code using zipfile, and am not 
yet sure whether the problem is in my code or the library.

Colin W.

PYTHON LIBRARY REFERENCE
7.15 zlib -- Compression compatible with gzip

For applications that require data compression, the functions in this 
module allow compression and decompression, using the zlib library. The 
zlib library has its own home page at http://www.gzip.org/zlib/. Version 
1.1.3 is the most recent version as of September 2000; use a later 
version if one is available.



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Mar  2 15:29:06 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:29:06 -0500
Subject: Unicode operators?
References: <2066c50.0402051336.1e8e7ee4@posting.google.com>
	<20040205220748.GA8055@nl.linux.org>
	<6.0.1.1.0.20040206074906.02624b30@www.mails.lu>
	<mailman.1296.1076064694.12720.python-list@python.org>
	<ad052e5c.0402061757.2f896ad6@posting.google.com>
	<c116tu$1ak718$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <S6ORAls/KzvB089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <c116tu$1ak718$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>,
"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>Dan Bishop wrote:
>> There are still three ASCII characters that aren't used in Python:
>> '@', '$', and '?'.  I don't see any obvious mathematical meaning for
>> them, though.
>Hmmm... Now that we can have Unicode source, maybe any
>otherwise-unused Unicode punctuation character could be
>allowed as an operator. The corresponding method name
>would be character's Unicode name with double underscores
>attached.

   There's a lot of Chinese in Unicode.  Very rich symbol
set.  Time to re-visit the work of John Searle.

        Regards.        Mel.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 10 02:54:04 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:54:04 +0100
Subject: Searching comp.lang.python
References: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <c2mhis$eu1$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Mulugeta Maru wrote:

> I went to the Python site to search posts made by group members. I am not
> sure whether there is this functionality exists. If it does could you
> please help a new comer.

The other option besides google groups is to limit your normal google search
to mail.python.org. E. g.

site:mail.python.org idle extension

will also find posts on the idle-dev mailing list.

Peter


From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 18:14:51 2004
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:14:51 -0700
Subject: measure module running time
References: <mailman.424.1080245997.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3vp4n$2ca0gc$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| How can I know a module take how much time? Thanks for any hints. 

Yang ....

    One simple method is to use the   time  module
    and call the  time()  function before and after 
    the block of code that you want to check  ....  

import time

beg  = time.time()
nLoops = 100000 

for i in range( nLoops ) : 
    i += 1

end = time.time()
dt    = end - beg

print '\n    nLoops :  %d, took %9.6f Seconds' % ( nLoops , dt ) 


Also, for Python 2.3 there is a  timeit  module 
that is a bit more sophisticated .... 

import timeit 
help( timeit )

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar  2 13:08:55 2004
From: straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk (Ken Starks)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:08:55 +0000
Subject: Extreme Newbie, HELP! :)
References: <7dqdnck-z6KnNtnd4p2dnA@hereintown.net>
Message-ID: <phC0AIA32MRAFw1N@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>

In article <7dqdnck-z6KnNtnd4p2dnA at hereintown.net>, 43fan
<sleap at pennswoods.net> writes
[snip]
>
>If there's a way that I can ask the user a series of approx. 4 questions, I
>can determine the location the file should be in, and the name it should be,
>based on the answers to those questions. 
[snip]

I have a similar task, and my solution (not yet implemented) uses
the non-printing internal annotations as an image identifier. Many
(?most?) formats have such a thing. See the -comment option of
ImageMagick or convert.
This internal annotation remains with the file if it is moved, and is
therefore much more reliable as an image identifier, particularly
if the image is saved to CD-ROM.

All other information about the image is text-based, and saved
within a relational data-base.
I'm no expert, but I don't like BLOBS (Binary Large Objects) in my
database tables, and I don't like them in CVS.


 +++++++++++++++

My scripts are based on index.py and saxthumbs.py from the
book `Python and XML' by Jones and Drake.

The overall design system is:
1. Original image saved to somewhere convenient. Could be photograph,
   or scan, or original artwork. No need to be fussy over file-names
   and directory at this stage, because many photographers may get it
   wrong.
   Skill level required: scanning clerk, (i.e. low-skill)

2. Once a day, or in the middle of the night, or as often as you wish,
three batch scripts run.

The first, based index.py, creates a glorified listing in XML format, of
the approproiate part of your file system. It includes the internal
annotations (my 'file identity') if they exist.

The second one creates a unique file identity where one does not 
already exist, and records it within the graphic file. It is not
for human consumption, so it can normally be calculated from the
original file owner, and the date-stamp of the file, or any other
way you wish.

The third script updates the main image-location table of the
database, which has the file identity as its key, and contains
the most recently know location of the file in the file-system.

This third script is a bit like `updatedb' on linux. 

Skill level required: high to set it up, then zero because it 
should be automatic.

3. From this database, software can create html or pdf forms that
display the graphic alongside whatever fields I wish users
to fill in. Normally I want a heading and caption, but you
can ask for whatever you wish.

The server saves the information returned to the database.

The skill-level for users at this stage is simply that
of filling in a form on a web-page, and pressing the
submit button.

4, 5, 6, ...
   Whatever you like: photo albums, croping, down-grading of colours
or dpi for bandwidth reasons, screen shows, graphics libraries,
optical character recognition, handwriting recognition, convert to
vector format, Etc.

- -
Ken,     __O
       -\<,_
      (_)/ (_)
Virtuale Saluton.


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Mar 27 20:31:28 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:31:28 -0000
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
	<mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list@python.org>
	<106b6ivetpf0bc0@corp.supernews.com>
	<mqtgj1-ik6.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<106blshqp92v4dc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1080437486.569630@yasure>

Quoth claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird):
| ...  Here's what I should have written before: 
|   smtplib is great.  If you get in the habit of using
|   it to connect directly to the far endpoint, as I do,
|   you risk the surprise of finding situations where a
|   local MTA is an advantage.  In any case, though,
|   smtplib can always be configured do at least as much
|   for you as shelling out to a local mailer.

Of course there's no guarantee that a connection to localhost
is going to work, either - not all hosts accept incoming mail.
But it probably isn't a great idea to try to send it right to
the recipient's doorstep, especially if you're not prepared to
look up DNS MX records.

Some sites provide a host just for this purpose, for use by
desktop mail software and other similar applications.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From michael at foord.net  Tue Mar 16 06:37:09 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 03:37:09 -0800
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403160337.1168fc22@posting.google.com>

"Oliver Kurz" <olku at web.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> 
> could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list without using eval or exec?
> 
> The string looks like:
> 
> '[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc","abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'
> 
> and should be converted to a list:
> 
> [['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], 'abc'], ['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], ['abc', ['abc', 'abc']], 'abc'], 'abc']
> 
> I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.
> 
> --

I'm not sure if you now have a working answer to this problem... but
as part of configuration file parser I've written a string to list
parser.....

It will parse a line of text into nested lists.... still
'experimental' but it passes the tests I've done so far....

listparse is included as a module in the ConfigObj 2 zip... see :
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html#configobj


Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Mar 11 06:38:26 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:38:26 +0100
Subject: v # invalid expression ?
References: <mailman.263.1078996572.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2piki$gv1$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Anthony Liu wrote:
> I am trying to split a string like so:
> 
> re.split(',|&#12290;|&#12289;|!|:|,|?|?|?|)|(|;',
> my_string)
> 
> Python complains like so:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python23\codes\regextest.py", line 27, in
> -toplevel-
>     ultimate =
> re.split(',|&#12290;|&#12289;|!|:|,|?|?|?|)|(|;',
> ch[0])
>   File "c:\python23\lib\sre.py", line 156, in split
>     return _compile(pattern, 0).split(string,
> maxsplit)
>   File "c:\python23\lib\sre.py", line 229, in _compile
>     raise error, v # invalid expression
> error: nothing to repeat
> 
> Does this mean that the regular expression I pass to
> the split function is not valid?
> 
> That expression is just like ',|)|#|!', that is, an
> or-ed list of punctuations. Then why invalid?

Because ?, (, and ) are special characters in regular expressions. You must 
escape them with a backslash:

 >>> re.split(',|&#12290;|&#12289;|!|:|,|\\?|\\)|\\(|;', 'foo,bar(spam)')
['foo', 'bar', 'spam', '']

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar  2 20:03:05 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 01:03:05 GMT
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122> <c234h9$nep$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c23as9$k9n$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:12:03 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:

>> thus
>> 
>>      Q'XXX'
>>      i=1
>>      i+=1
>>      print i
>>      print i+1
>>      'XXX'
>
>You may as well suggest /* and */, as they are far more well known, and 
>significantly more acceptable (in my opinion) than your syntax. 
>Considering that /* */ has not already been added to the language, I 
>doubt that an aribirary magical syntax for commenting code would be added.
>

/*
/* you missed the point */
*/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 15:43:50 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:43:50 -0600
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <4061ED09.1080506@neggie.net>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
	<16481.60337.370411.907718@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<4061ED09.1080506@neggie.net>
Message-ID: <16481.62214.163592.282439@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "John" == John Belmonte <john at neggie.net> writes:

    John> Skip Montanaro wrote:
    >> How about:
    >> 
    >> class nullFile:
    >>     def _null(self, *args, **kwds):
    >>         pass
    >> 
    >> def __getattr__(self, name):
    >>     return self._null

    John> Unless I'm misunderstanding your code, this object is not going to
    John> give me a legitimate file descriptor that I can pass to another
    John> program.

In general you can't pass file descriptors between programs.  If you want
something that simulates /dev/null as a data sink the class I posted should
work just fine:

    class nullFile:
        def _null(self, *args, **kwds):
            pass

        def __getattr__(self, name):
            return self._null

    null = nullFile()

    for i in range(10):
        print "/etc/services to null file"
        null.write(file("/etc/services").read())

While I agree you can open /dev/null for reading, it's rarely used that way.

If you want something that returns an honest-to-god file object, how about:

    import os
    def nullfile(mode="wb"):
        return file(os.path.exists("/dev/null") and
                    "/dev/null" or
                    "nul:", mode)

    null = nullfile()

    for i in range(10):
        print "/etc/services to null file"
        null.write(file("/etc/services").read())

?

Guido made an astute observation the other day which I can't find at the
moment.  It went something like, "The biggest problem I have now is
convincing people that just because something's not already in the standard
library doesn't mean it belongs there."  I suspect this applies.  If a
portable null file object is the cats pajamas for you, write something and
throw it in your personal toolbox or post it to your personal Python page
where others can find it.

Skip



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 06:42:34 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:42:34 -0000
Subject: Problem using py2exe
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347C8@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

At the very serious risk of teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, have you
read Pete Shinner's own intro to pygame / py2exe?

http://www.pygame.org/docs/tut/Executable.html

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________



From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar 23 05:08:01 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 12:08:01 +0200
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du71xnjvptq.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    Stephen> It just occurred to me that if decorators really catch
    Stephen> on, there could be cases where they are applied
    Stephen> repeatedly to many functions, and possibly with many
    Stephen> decorators. Combine that with many (and variable numbers
    Stephen> of) parameters per function and readability could be
    Stephen> seriously hit.

d = publishdecorator

def f() [d]:
        pass

def g() [d]:
        pass

d = hidedecorator

def f2() [d]:
        pass

def g2() [d]:
        pass

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From lamote1 at netscape.net  Mon Mar  8 13:21:56 2004
From: lamote1 at netscape.net (chads)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:21:56 -0600
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
In-Reply-To: <104pdlunkch6na0@news.supernews.com>
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
	<104pdlunkch6na0@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <104pee61pt6203d@corp.supernews.com>

John Roth wrote:
> "chads" <lamote1 at netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0 at posting.google.com...
> 
>>How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
>>simple example?
> 
> 
> What do you need this for?
> 
> John Roth
> 
> 

curiosity



From bhicking at bhicking.plus.com  Tue Mar 23 15:14:28 2004
From: bhicking at bhicking.plus.com (Brett Hicking)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:14:28 -0000
Subject: ASP/JSP Python Equivalent
Message-ID: <IX08c.25928$Y%6.2901546@wards.force9.net>

Hi All,

I have created a simple inventory system to test the feasability of using
Python for more serious applications.

Currently the application has a simple tkinter frontend but I was wondering
how easy it is to create browser based (intranet) type applications such as
you can with Microsoft's Active Server Pages and the Java equivalent JSP.

I have encapsulated the data access and business logic within classes.

In the past I have created COM components in Visual Basic and then accessed
methods of these from within ASP scripts.  I could also just create business
and data access logic directly within the ASP although this can get messy
for anything other than trivial stuff.

Just wondering if there is a Python equivalent of this kind of development.

Could someone also give me a good idea of what Zope is, what it tries to
solve and what it is good for in a few sentences also please :-)

Thanks in advance





From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 02:41:43 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:41:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The range of Chinese characters
Message-ID: <20040331074143.29861.qmail@web13010.mail.yahoo.com>

I know that the 1st byte of a GB Chinese character
falls between xa1 and xff (inclusive), I wanna know
the range of the 2nd byte.

Please let me know.  Thanks.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 08:37:01 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:37:01 GMT
Subject: Traceback (most recent call last):
References: <5497c46e.0403231810.5f040d02@posting.google.com>
	<c3qt27$qpj$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc6322k.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c3qt27$qpj$1 at news.service.uci.edu>, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> # Loop over the arguments
>> for i in sys.argv[1:]:
>>     try: 
>>         fahrenheit=float(string.atoi(i))
> 
> You should try the below instead, then you don't need string.
> 
>            farenheit = float(i)

Might I also suggest calling your variable something easier to spell,
like "fahr", since Python won't catch mismatches like the above and it
doesn't sound like you have time to write the full and perfect unit test
suite that people keep saying will solve such problems.

Joe


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 29 10:14:22 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:14:22 -0600
Subject: Readonly attributes ...
References: <fe8d7286.0403290133.15ee661f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <esOdnTTv0s_UoPXd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

It is cumbersome but you can do it as follows:

class A:
    _ROattributes=['x', '_A__x']

    def __init__(self):
        #self.x = 1
        self.__dict__['x']=1  # Sets x without calling __setattr__
        self.__setX(2)
        return

    def getX(self):
        return self.__x
    #
    # Use name mangling to hide setX (by renaming to __setX)
    # to outside execution.  Isn't perfect, but follows convention.
    #
    def __setX(self, value):
        self.__dict__['_A__x'] = value
        return

    def __setattr__(self, key, value):
        #print "in __setattr__, key=",key
        if key in self._ROattributes:
            print "Read Only attribute %s, not set" % key

        else:
            self.__dict__[key]=value

    #x = property(getX, setX)
    #pass

a=A()
print "a.x=", a.x
a.x=1
a._A__setX(23) # You can call it if you REALLY try
print a.getX()




-Larry Bates

"kobayashi" <kobayashi at netcourrier.com> wrote in message
news:fe8d7286.0403290133.15ee661f at posting.google.com...
> Hi all python users,
>
> A question about readonly attributes once again, but
> even reading the threads about "properties" and "descriptors",
> I can't find exactly what I want.
>
> Let a developper to write the class
>
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.x = 1
>         self.setX(2)
>         return
>     def getX(self):
>         return self.__x
>     def setX(self, value):
>         self.__x = value
>         return
>     x = property(getX, setX)
>     pass
>
> Of course, the developper can set the attribute 'x'
> in the class ...
>
> Now, the user part :
>
> a = A()
> print a.x
> a.x = 1        # I want this operation to raise
> print a.x
> a.setX(23)     # I want this operation to raise too !!
> print a.getX()
>
> I can't find a way to do that ... but may be I've
> missed something !
>
> Cheers,
>
>                 K.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Mar 10 05:24:35 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:24:35 -0500
Subject: How to downgrade/remove ZODB (or any other module)?
In-Reply-To: <282f826a.0403100205.5d6070e4@posting.google.com>
References: <282f826a.0403100205.5d6070e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404EECE3.4010007@rogers.com>

If it's using a normal distutils installer, just go to "Add/Remove 
Programs" in your Windows Control Panel and select the ZODB package for 
removal.

HTH,
Mike

Richard Shea wrote:

>Hi - I have just installed ZODB for the first time. However after I'd
>finished I realised that I'd installed a development release and not a
>stable release so I'd like to downgrade or remove the current
>installation and start again.
>
>I installed via a Windows installer 
>
...

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Mar  8 06:24:51 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:24:51 +0100
Subject: CUPS or IPP in Python?
References: <nbJ2c.575$%06.300@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.08.11.24.51.305981@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:43:47 +0000 schrieb Russell Lear:

> I'm interested in doing printing from within Python.  If someone has wrapped
> the CUPS library in Python, that'd be great.  Unfortunately, I can't find
> such a beast.  PyCUPS sounded good, but it seems to have evaporated.
> 
> If there isn't a CUPS wrapper, perhaps someone has implemented an IPP stack
> in Python?  Since CUPS uses IPP I should be able to use the printer's URI
> to submit jobs.  Right?

Hi,

what do you want to do?

If you just want to print a file. You can do this:

cmd='lpr -P fooprinter foodoc.ps'
ret=os.system(cmd)
if ret:
    raise("Error while '%s'" % cmd)

lpr is available for windows, too. But it needs to
be installed manually.

HTH,
 Thomas



From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar 12 23:20:43 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:20:43 GMT
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668@pd7tw1no>
	<T4v4c.11264$H44.200022@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <v_v4c.791345$ts4.714102@pd7tw3no>

elizabeth fletcher wrote:

> Actually, I have the .pyd file (which I understand is basically a dll
> file)
> and placed it in the DLL directory in the PYTHON23 directory.  In the
> interactive window I type "import calldll" and I get an error
> (ImportError:
> DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found)    I shoudn't if
> the dll is installed correctly.....right?

instead of trying this in a Python shell, try a small python program that
does nothing more than "import calldll" and then run it from the command
line.  Sometimes by doing that you'll get more information that helps you
find the problem. You don't happen to have other versions of the thing on
your hard drive, do you?

Also try adding to your Windows path statement. 

But I'm no expert, I can't get GTK+ running under Windows. 

I took a look at calldll and see that it's a graphics library - are you
thinking of doing some GUI work?   If so, you might find other choices
easier to work with. easygui, for easiest possible approach, and Tkinter,
for the best-documented approach.  (though GTK is not far behind on
documentation, it's a bear to install on Win32. 

S




From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Wed Mar 24 09:48:29 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:48:29 +0100
Subject: using MySQLdb module
Message-ID: <40619FBD.2010609@zslide.com>

hi,

i'd like to use the MySQLdb module in my jython script but it doesn't 
work ...
Is it possible or does this module only work with python ?

I've installed MySQLdb (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python) 
but it doesn't work in a jython shell :

 >>> import MySQLdb
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "c:\python21\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line 27, in ?
ImportError: no module named _mysql

any advice will help !

thx
vince



From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Wed Mar  3 02:52:16 2004
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:52:16 +0100
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qg3b401fdnsv9r65dj36615ds1mhhmgh0u@4ax.com>

W. Borgert:
>python2.3-pgsql - A Python DB-API 2.0 interface to PostgreSQL v7.x
>python2.3-popy - module providing access to PostgreSQL from Python2.3
>python2.3-psycopg - Python 2.3 module for PostgreSQL
>python2.3-pygresql - PostgreSQL module for Python
>
>Now I'm confused: Which one should I use? 

I scanned the newsgroups and documentation with the same question some
time ago. I can't remember all the reasons, but I chose pgsql. No regrets.

-- 
Ren? Pijlman


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Sat Mar 27 18:13:09 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:13:09 -0800
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <mailman.1.1080428101.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <76adnc77cvMUl_vdRVn-jA@centurytel.net>

m = sre.search('(\d+)\s+\"[\w\'][,\s]+([\w\'])', s)
x = (int(m.group(1)), group(2), group(3)) 

- Ed Suominen

achaljalan at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> I have a string
> 
>         s =740446505        "O'HANLON, Benjamin"
> 
> i need to use one RE to convert it into
>   
>        (740446505, "O'HANLN", "Benjamin"),
> 
> I am using python 2.3 and have been stuydin the various tutotrials and the
> howto websites for the past 3 days and haven't managed to find a solution.
> 
> Any help to get to the solution will be very very helpful.
> 
> Thanks in advance for all the help.
> 
> Achal Jalan
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Mar 14 09:38:04 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:38:04 +0100
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <20040314143701.GB2737@nl.linux.org>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<20040314143701.GB2737@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20040314143804.GA2821@nl.linux.org>

Gerrit Holl wrote:
> I think there is a better way.

Please ignore, I should have read the rest of the thread first - sorry!

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 14/03 13:55 UTC:
	12.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 10.3 m/s SSW (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar 18 01:30:50 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:30:50 -0500
Subject: Any known bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
 deck?
References: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>
	<c35frm$nar$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<wz8yi117l9.fsf@Ordesa.local> <c3b2on$cds$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <qnk1xnqacpx.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:

>>>>Does anyone know of a bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
>>>>deck? I'm planning to create a new cardgame which requires this kind of
>>>>deck (prototyping in Python and possible final development in Delphi;
>>>>flames about my tool choices will be gently dropped into the bit bucket)
>>>>I'd be very thankful about any information regarding this matter.
>> JC> Aside from you using Python to prototype the initial "new
>> cardgame", images
>> JC> of Spanish playing cards are very off-topic.
>> JC> Search at google.com for the three terms: spanish playing cards
>> JC> The second link will be for a site that sells decks of cards for $3.50 +
>> JC> shipping each.  Scan them.  That is how I would get images of Spanish
>> JC> playing cards.
>> And you would have a copyright problem.
>
> I wouldn't worry about it until I needed to release it.  By then, I'd
> hopefully have some unemcumbered-by-copyright images.  Then again, I
> don't need such images, so it is all just speculation.

Have you checked pysol? (http://www.pysol.org/) It has a lot of card
decks (no Spanish ones at first glance, but lots of French, for instance).
And if you find some unencumbered Spanish ones, the author would
probably like those.

[Pysol's written in Python, so this is now on topic :-)]

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 09:27:18 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 06:27:18 -0800
Subject: Newbie question about attachment
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403120627.71a4bb4b@posting.google.com>

Hi everyone,
My application goes like this:
User can submit any attachment and can view all the attachments
submitted by other users. Attachment contents can be anything.
Now I want that if the user selects to view a particular attachment
then if the browser is able to show the attachment then it should
display the attachment otherwise ask the user to save the attachment
on the local drive.
How should I go about this??


From bob at redivi.com  Tue Mar 23 12:26:21 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:26:21 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 318 - posting draft
In-Reply-To: <16480.28046.500125.309554@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16480.28046.500125.309554@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <339FFDCC-7CEF-11D8-B723-000A95686CD8@redivi.com>


On Mar 23, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Here's the current state of PEP 318.  I have to take a break from this  
> to
> get some real work done and may not get back to it in a major way for
> awhile.  I received a significant rewrite of Kevin Smith's most recent
> version from Jim Jewett and incorporated much of what he wrote,  
> modifying a
> lot of it along the way, but have still not digested everything he  
> sent me.
>
> I've tried to reflect the concensus which seems to be emerging on the
> python-dev list, though I suspect I've done a poor job of that.  The
> discussions there and on comp.lang.python have ranged far and wide and  
> thus
> resist summary in a finite amount of time.  I recommend interested
> comp.lang.python readers spend some time in the python-dev archives for
> February and March if they find major fault with the current state of  
> the
> proposal.
>
> If you post corrections or comments to either list I should see them.
>
> Skip Montanaro
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -------
> PEP: 318
> Title: Function/Method Decorator Syntax
> Version: $Revision: 1.5 $
> Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/03/23 16:41:17 $
> Author: Kevin D. Smith <Kevin.Smith at theMorgue.org>,
>         Jim Jewett <jimjjewett at users.sourceforge.net>,
>         Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
> Status: Draft
> Type: Standards Track
> Content-Type: text/x-rst
> Created: 05-Jun-2003
> Python-Version: 2.4
> Post-History: 09-Jun-2003, 10-Jun-2003, 27-Feb-2004, 23-Mar-2004
--snip--
> with an alternative that places the decoration in the function's
> declaration::
>
>     def foo(cls) using [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
>         pass

Shouldn't the using keyword go away, so it's consistent with the  
current implementation?

> Current Implementation
> ======================
>
> Michael Hudson has posted a `patch`_ at Starship, which implements the
> proposed syntax and left-first application of decorators::
>
>     def func(arg1, arg2, ...) [dec1, dec2]:
>         pass
>
> is equivalent to::
>
>     def func(arg1, arg2, ...):
>         pass
>     func = dec2(dec1(func))
>
> though without the intermediate creation of a variable named ``func``.
>
> .. _patch:  
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/meth-syntax-sugar.diff

The current implementation is here, as far as I know:
http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/meth-syntax-sugar-3.diff

> Possible Extensions
> ===================
>
> The proposed syntax is general enough that it could be used on class
> definitions as well::
>
>     class foo(object) [dec1, dec2, ...]:
>         class definition here
>
> Use would likely be much less than function decorators.  The current
> patch only implements function decorators.

The current patch *does* implement class decorators, with this syntax.

-bob




From Michael at matraex.com  Thu Mar 11 09:36:17 2004
From: Michael at matraex.com (Michael at matraex.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:36:17 -0700
Subject: python + apache consulting needed
Message-ID: <03f501c40776$36db8cf0$2000a8c0@spruce>

Does anyone know where I can find a consultant who can help me setup a
webserver with mod_python.
Currently I am receiving a VERY common error message.  I have searched
and searched for an answer and tried many things and at this point I am
willing to pay to get things completed.
 
The error I am receiveing is  
    python_handler: make_obcallback returned no obCallBack!
 
If you feel you can help me please contact me as soon as possible via
email or phone.
 
Thanks 
 
Michael Blood
208.344.1115
-------------- next part --------------
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From http  Mon Mar 29 04:16:13 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 01:16:13 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwu5484yj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c48oi3$59$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xu1083teq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> > Sort, then remove dups.
> 
> A list 10 million integers suck up ~160 megs of memory with Python.  I
> doubt the strings would fit even then.

I meant sort externally.  I thought these records were in a disk file
or something.


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Sat Mar  6 12:12:56 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:12:56 -0300 (ART)
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
In-Reply-To: <pon2c.2285$G3.18508@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040306171256.27568.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com>


> > Not to mention that I don't 
> > see how to get a handle to the module from inside the module, i.e. 
> > there's no "self".

from sys import modules

module_self = modules[__name__]

:)

Aloysio

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG# at virgilio.it  Fri Mar 26 14:25:11 2004
From: dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG# at virgilio.it (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:25:11 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>

Il Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:53:45 -0500, Roy Smith ha scritto:

> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>> Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about tab as an
>> indentation character. That means that I can't send a Prothon program
>> (or snippet from one) using Outlook Express, which automaticlly strips
>> tabs from the front of lines, thus destroying the indentation.
> 
> Are you objecting specifically to the use of the tab character for
> indenting, or to the use of white space for statement grouping in general?

Just the tab, python coding style says that 4 spaces is the standard for
indentation and you should try to avoid tab (unless for very old projects).
A single space is always a single space while a tab is often managed in obscure
ways...

Anyway GvR just posted on the python-dev saying this:

==
No, I want to reserve the leading dot for attribute assignment to a
special object specified by a 'with' statement, e.g.

with self:
    .foo = [1, 2, 3]
    .bar(4, .foo)
==

So another feature of this prothon (and a major one) is going to be a python one
too.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Linux User #310274, Gentoo Proud User
X Python Newsreader developer
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xpn/



From tauno.voipio at iki.fi.NOSPAM.invalid  Mon Mar 15 02:06:29 2004
From: tauno.voipio at iki.fi.NOSPAM.invalid (Tauno Voipio)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:06:29 GMT
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
In-Reply-To: <1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <VBc5c.98$NN2.32@read3.inet.fi>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
> Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
> 
>>I need a piece of code to extract as much info about OS, current status and
>>hardware from a machine as possible ( at least, all available partitions and
>>free space on these, CPU-speed, free/total memory and stuff like that ) at
>>one given moment on Linux and Windows.
>>
>>Any hints? Can I call something in win32all on Windows or read some file on
>>linux? I'm not sure where to begin.
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I was hoping someone else would answer this.
> 
> My impression is that there are dozens of answers to this.
> I know I've seen quite a few such utilities advertised in
> places like Freshmeat.  I haven't kept track of them at 
> all.  
> 
> "... as much info ... as possible ...":  whoooo!  Usually
> when a manager says that to me, I ask for how much he's 
> willing to pay.  As it turns out, notions like "free 
> space", "CPU speed", and so on are surprisingly poorly
> standardized.  It's far from clear what they mean for any
> particular platform.
> 
> Sooooooo, what I usually do is define my requirements 
> carefully, and write up my own tool.

Plenty of the Linux information is in the /proc directory tree.

The files in /proc are actually windows into the kernel
innards giving at least the information you asked for.

For starters, read /proc/cpuinfo, /proc/meminfo and
/proc/partitions.

HTH

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio @ iki fi



From webmaster at python.org  Mon Mar  1 12:31:35 2004
From: webmaster at python.org (webmaster at python.org)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 12:31:35 -0500
Subject: All python.org mailing lists hosed
Message-ID: <c1vs1n$56r$1@panix3.panix.com>

Yes, we know about it.  Yes, we're working on fixing it.  Please don't
bug us about it.  We'll get the work done faster.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 08:32:58 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 05:32:58 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> Axel Boldt wrote:
> 
> > ...and then it can run into an infinite loop. I explained that for the
> > example s==w in the part you deleted. The recursion does not always
> > have a base case; the rule does not always give a definite truth
> > value.
> 
> But the == operator doesn't run into an infinite loop, so this is much
> ado about nothing.

Well, it's precisely the point: the definition of list equality given
in the language reference is circular, but the implementation of ==
clearly is not, so the two don't coincide. I'm trying to understand
what the precise semantics of == for lists is. Right now, if you give
me two list definitions, I don't feel confident to determine whether
they are equal or not, without starting python.

> > I.e., I'm interesting in a function val : lists -> strings with the
> > property val(l1) == val(l2) iff l1 == l2. That would also considerably
> > clarify the semantics of == for lists, which I still don't understand.
> 
> Why are you interested in such a function?

Like I said, it would clarify the semantics of == for lists. Another
use would be to hash on values of lists. (The FAQ 4.18 recommends to
first convert a list to a tuple and hash on that, but of course that
doesn't work in general. The ListWrapper class in 4.18 also works only
for simple minded lists.)

Axel


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 20 04:38:13 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:38:13 -0800
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 and data_files
In-Reply-To: <87d67799ca.fsf@u-go.net>
References: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net> <c3g0r4$hga$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<87d67799ca.fsf@u-go.net>
Message-ID: <c3h3jt$mea$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Thanks for your suggestion. I see that I can get around this 
> problem by analyzing sys.path[0] and proceeding case by case.
> However, my understanding is that it should not be necessary
> for the application to "know" that it will be packaged by
> py2exe later. In other words, why does py2exe "change"
> sys.path[0]? Or, if this change is justified (and it may well
> be), maybe my application shpuld not use sys.path[0] but a
> different way to find out the path where it resides?

sys.path[0] has different meanings depending on the context.  These are 
the two cases I've come across.  While there could be more,


> In addition, since this change in the behavior of py2exe forces
> me to change the Python application which I want to package
> itself, I am asking myself whether there are other changes that
> have to be made but which are not as obvious as this one.

It is possible, but doubtful.  I use this same method for PyPE 
(http://pype.sf.net), and aside from people using paths with unicode 
characters in them, I've had few (if any) issues with source vs. 
executable compatibility.  There is one outstanding issue, but the bug 
reports haven't specified what are the conditions of the 'error', only 
that a certain set of related features don't work.


> (All this is not meant as criticism towards py2exe; it is a
> great program. But I would like to improve my understanding
> of its behavior, and of what is the right thing to do in my
> application.)

Special case the finding of the running path, and work from there.

  - Josiah


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 09:57:37 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 06:57:37 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> Axel Boldt wrote:

> >   >>> l=[1]
> >   >>> s=l
> >   >>> l.append(s)
> >   >>> w=[1]
> >   >>> r=[1,w]
> >   >>> w.append(r)
> >   >>> s
>  [1, [...]]
> >   >>> w
>  [1, [1, [...]]]
> >   >>> s==w
> >   True

> If you try running through the
> element-wise algorithm that Python uses to determine equality of lists,
> you'll see that they are in fact equal at this point.

I couldn't find that algorithm in the language reference, only in 5.9:
"Tuples and lists are compared lexicographically using comparison of
corresponding elements. This means that to compare equal, each element
must compare equal and the two sequences must be of the same type and
have the same length."

That definition doesn't seem to fully specify equality of list values:
to determine whether s==w, I first note that they both have length 2
and both have 1 as their first element, the second element of s is a
pointer to s, the second element of w is a two-element list, with
first element 1 and second element a pointer to w. So now I have to
determine whether s is equal to the two element list with first
element 1 and second element a pointer to w. They both have two
elements, they both share the first element 1, the second element of s
is a pointer to s, the second element of the other list is a pointer
to w. Now I'm back where I started: I have to test whether s==w. So
the definition in the language reference is circular and both
conclusions s==w and s!=w are consistent with it. I hope that the
actual result received, i.e. s==w, is not implementation dependent?

It now appears to me that there are four levels of equality in Python:

a is b => pickle.dumps(a)==pickle.dumps(b) => repr(a)==repr(b) => a==b

and none of the arrows can be reversed in general. I suppose I had
naively assumed the last three to be equivalent. Is there a string
function analogous to pickle.dumps or repr which only takes values
into account, not internal structure? Such a function could be useful
for hashing the values of mutables.

Axel


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 18:23:03 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 15:23:03 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403061523.26c9f15d@posting.google.com>

"Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote in message news:<UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)
> 
> (1) deeply nested loops
> 
> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>     if (/* some test */) goto END;
> 
> END: /* continue */;

# One way is to fake GOTO using try-except

class END(Exception):
   pass

try:
   for k in xrange(10):
      for j in xrange(10):
         for i in xrange(10):
            if some_test():
               raise END()
except END:
   pass

# Another is to put the nested loops inside a function

def nested_loops():
   for k in xrange(10):
      for j in xrange(10):
         for i in xrange(10):
            if some_test():
               return

> and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> 
> BEGIN:
> for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;

n = 0
while n < 20:
   if some_test():
      n = 0
      continue
   n += 1
 
> What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
> 'goto' command?


From stuart.b at commonground.com.au  Thu Mar 11 22:53:19 2004
From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:53:19 +1100
Subject: Gadfly ????
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403050432.6cedbe99@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078415103.24397.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403050432.6cedbe99@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CCA62514-73D8-11D8-87C9-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 05/03/2004, at 11:32 PM, Fuzzyman wrote:

> In actual fact I'm looking for a pure python solution. I want to be
> able to upload python modules to our server without having to worry
> about installing/compiling binaries on our Linux server.
>
> I also need to be able to test on my Windoze desktop.
>
> In various references to Gadfly it was refferred to as a 'pure python'
> solution... and then the distribution comes with a C file and
> pre-built binaries for python up to version 2.2... but not 2.3.
>
> Odd that no-one seems to know anything about Gadfly - which was even
> touted for inclusion in the main python distribution.

If you look at the top of the README.txt file in the gadfly
distribution, you will find that the C portion (kjbuckets) is
optional. Gadfly will use this module if available, or fall back
to a pure python implementation.

- --  
Stuart Bishop <stuart at stuartbishop.net>
http://www.stuartbishop.net/
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From noemail at noemail4u.com  Fri Mar  5 07:42:55 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:42:55 GMT
Subject: I can't use cx_Oracle..help me.
References: <mailman.2.1078410143.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2ad38f1bc2b0f08f1361ccec64690c3c@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:08:17 +0100, Pieter Claerhout
<Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com> wrote:

>Unfortunately, the name of the DLLs is not included in your email, but I
>presume it's looking for the oci.dll file. Do you have the Oracle client
>tools installed on your system? If not, cx_Oracle will not work as it
>requires you to have the Oracle client tools installed.

I'm having a similar (i.e. DLL) problem.  I can find the oci.dll, but
one of the methods isn't found, so the DLL fails to load upon import.
>From me reading, I think my Python isn't compiled with the same
compiler as the cx_Oracle, which is mentioned as a requirement in the
cx_Oracle docs.

Just mentioning it in case the OP gets oci.dll in his path and then
runs into this also.

    --dang


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Mar 19 21:10:32 2004
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Grumfish)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:10:32 GMT
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
Message-ID: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

I'm trying to use the md5 module but it gives me a different result from 
what other programs give. This is the code I have and the result from 
hexdigest() never matches what I expect. Its probably something stupid 
but its driving me crazy.

f = file (filename, "r")
m = md5.new()
data = f.read (CHUNK_SIZE)
while data != "":
	m.update (data)
	data = f.read (CHUNK_SIZE)


From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Wed Mar 31 12:05:31 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:05:31 -0800
Subject: wxPython information
In-Reply-To: <mailman.165.1080725800.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <106kuq6kvppf31@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.165.1080725800.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vTCac.686$JX6.94@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Michael wrote:
> 
>> While I was working with wxPython I was beginning to think I was a 
>> little dense and missing something very important.  Then I started 
>> reading the thread about python documentation and in particular the 
>> part about wxPython documentation.  That made me feel so much better.  
>> Anyway to get to my point I am looking for a good source of tutorials 
>> that go beyond those found on the wxPython site, website, book, or 
>> otherwise. The thing that really drives me crazy is that the tutorials 
>> don't do a very good job of explaining the components of a wxPython 
>> application. Currently I am trying to create a simple two pane window 
>> with each pane utilizing 50% of the window.  I did manage to find the 
>> wxSashWindow information, but it really seems to be lacking.
> 
> 
> Don't feel bad. The documentation really does need work. It helps to 
> join the wxPython mailing list and ask questions there. Other than that 
> the best reference they have is the program full of demos that comes 
> with wxPython.
> 

There is also lots of stuff on the wiki.  http://wiki.wxpython.org/


-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 21:36:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:36:19 -0500
Subject: How to read one byte at a time in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.335.1079137564.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.335.1079137564.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ruu4c.2784$G3.22819@localhost>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> Java has functions that read only one byte at a time,
> do we have such a function in python?

Skip assumed you meant during user input.  Is that what you meant, or 
did you mean during input from a file or something?  read(1) would do 
that, of course...

-Peter


From bror.johansson at saabtech.se  Thu Mar  4 02:10:25 2004
From: bror.johansson at saabtech.se (Bror Johansson)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:10:25 +0100
Subject: decimal point character
References: <c25nut$1p9kb2$1@ID-59332.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc4cq4u.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <c26km7$ddt$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in
message news:slrnc4cq4u.1lq.bignose-hates-spam at rose.localdomain.fake...
...
> The word you want, rather than "environment", is "locale".  The issue of
> decimal point separator is one of the "locale conventions", queried via
> locale.localeconv().
...
> Read about what each of these convention values mean:
>
>     <http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-locale.html>
>

Excellent answer. I really should have come to think about locale myself,
but ...

... still some questions:

I don't see anything about the builtin float() adhering to locale
conventions. Am I right to assume that float() behaves according to locale?

Is it "allowed" to modify localeconv()['decimal point'], or are unexpected
sideeffects possible?

/BJ




From WUPYRDEDAWJD at spammotel.com  Thu Mar 25 03:11:49 2004
From: WUPYRDEDAWJD at spammotel.com (J. Baute)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:11:49 +0100
Subject: py2exe question
References: <c3tce0$4fn$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <40629445$0$1369$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>


How about only releasing the compiled python code (.pyc) for the scripts you
don't want to see changed, and the full code for that one script you want to
allow people to change?

(I don't know how easily pyc code can be reverse engineered, so this might
not be as "secure" as it sounds)

"Guy Robinson" <guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz> wrote in message
news:c3tce0$4fn$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz...
> I want to package a program (using py2exe) that utilises a number of
> python scripts so that people can't see or change the source code. But
> there is one python script containing some functions I do want the user
> to be able to change. Then when they run the program again these
> functions are available to the main program. Is this possible? How could
> I do it?
>
> Guy




From s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk  Tue Mar 23 06:04:41 2004
From: s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk (Sarah Mount)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:04:41 -0000
Subject: Problem using py2exe
References: <c3n3g1$ba$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>
	<mailman.237.1079973538.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3p5kd$6hv$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>


"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.237.1079973538.742.python-list at python.org...

> IIRC, pygame imports some of its modules from C code, and py2exe cannot
> track these.  You should try to include some (or all) of the pygame
> modules explicitely with the --includes command line option.  Or you
> simply include the whole pygame package with '--packages pygame'.

Thanks Thomas, but sadly --packages didn't make any difference :-(

Installing pyObjc seems impossible on Windows as ffi support is missing
(doesn't wok with ctypes either) and py2exe isn't available for Linux!

:-(

Thanks anyway,

Sarah




From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 20 18:54:22 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:54:22 -0700
Subject: Installing SIP with QT Enabled for Python Applications
References: <pan.2004.03.20.07.57.59.873253@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <jtlp50lhp7qes73dv1oo50lh34nq2irb83@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:58:16 GMT, Benjamin Sher
<sher07 at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Dear friends:
>
>[USING XANDROS/DEBIAN with KDE 3.1.4 and Python 2.3 and Python 2.3-dev]
>
>I would appreciate your help in installing SIP with QT support so that I can
>then install PyQT. My reason is that I would like to install a number of KDE
>applications that require as a prerequisite SIP and PyQT.
>
>As an ordinary user, I recognize my limitations as far as programming. My
>dilemma is that this stuff is quite difficult and beyond my competence, but I
>would like to install these prerequisites so that I can than install and run
>the programs based on them.
>
>The error message says that configure could not find qglobal.h. Yet, it is 
>clearly listed in the two qt3 directories below.

A search for qglobal.h on http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages shows
it available in a number of packages:

devel/libqt-dev,devel/libqt3-emb-dev,devel/libqt3-dev,devel/libqt-emb-dev

You should be using apt-get to install packages under Debian.  When
you try to install KDE or some other package that depends on Qt, it
will find the right version of all other packages it depends on, and
download and install the dependencies automatically.

I'm assuming the KDE apps you refer to above are available as Debian
packages.  If not, your in for configuration hell.

-- Dave


>Thank you so much.
>
>Benjamin
>
>LIST OF PROGRAMS ON MY COMPUTER:
>
>Please see the following URL:
>
>http://www.websher.net/SIP-QT1.txt
>
>WHEREIS TMAKE:
>sher at Dell:~$ whereis tmake
>tmake: /usr/bin/tmake /etc/tmake /usr/share/tmake /usr/share/man/man1/
>tmake.1.gz
>sher at Dell:~$
>
>sher at Dell:~/L-Files/Downloads/Python/sip-4.0rc3$ export TMAKEPATH=/usr/share/
>tmake/linux-g++
>
>sher at Dell:~/L-Files/Downloads/Python/sip-4.0rc3$ QTDIR=/usr/include/qt3
>?python configure.py
>This is SIP 4.0rc3 for Python 2.3.2 on linux2.
>Error: qglobal.h could not be found in /usr/include/qt3/include/qt.
>
>sher at Dell:~/L-Files/Downloads/Python/sip-4.0rc3$
>?QTDIR=/usr/share/include/qt3/ python configure.py
>This is SIP 4.0rc3 for Python 2.3.2 on linux2.
>Error: qglobal.h could not be found in /usr/share/include/qt3//include/qt.
>
>WHEREIS TMAKE:
>sher at Dell:~$ whereis tmake
>tmake: /usr/bin/tmake /etc/tmake /usr/share/tmake /usr/share/man/man1/
>tmake.1.gz
>sher at Dell:~$
>
>
>USR/INCLUDE/QT3:
>
>sher at Dell:~$ cd /usr/include/qt3
>sher at Dell:/usr/include/qt3$ ls
>private ? ? ? ? ? ? qhostaddress.h ? ? ? ? ? qscrollbar.h
>q1xcompatibility.h ?qhttp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qscrollview.h
>qabstractlayout.h ? qiconset.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsemaphore.h
>qaccel.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qiconview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsemimodal.h
>qaction.h ? ? ? ? ? qimageformatplugin.h ? ? qserversocket.h
>qapp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qimage.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsession.h
>qapplication.h ? ? ?qinputdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qsessionmanager.h
>qarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qintcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsettings.h
>qasciicache.h ? ? ? qintcach.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsgistyle.h
>qasciidict.h ? ? ? ?qintdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qshared.h
>qasyncimageio.h ? ? qinterlacestyle.h ? ? ? ?qsignal.h
>qasyncio.h ? ? ? ? ?qiodev.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsignalmapper.h
>qbig5codec.h ? ? ? ?qiodevice.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsignalslotimp.h
>qbitarray.h ? ? ? ? qjiscodec.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsimplerichtext.h
>qbitarry.h ? ? ? ? ?qjpegio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsizegrip.h
>qbitmap.h ? ? ? ? ? qjpunicode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsize.h
>qbrush.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qkeycode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsizepolicy.h
>qbttngrp.h ? ? ? ? ?qkeysequence.h ? ? ? ? ? qsjiscodec.h
>qbuffer.h ? ? ? ? ? qlabel.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qslider.h
>qbuttongroup.h ? ? ?qlayout.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketdevice.h
>qbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qlcdnumber.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocket.h
>qcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qlcdnum.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketnotifier.h
>qcanvas.h ? ? ? ? ? qlibrary.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocknot.h
>qcdestyle.h ? ? ? ? qlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsortedlist.h
>qcheckbox.h ? ? ? ? qlineedit.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsound.h
>qchkbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qlistbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qspinbox.h
>qcleanuphandler.h ? qlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplashscreen.h
>qclipboard.h ? ? ? ?qlistview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplitter.h
>qclipbrd.h ? ? ? ? ?qlocalfs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlcursor.h
>qcollect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmainwindow.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldatabase.h
>qcollection.h ? ? ? qmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqldriver.h
>qcolordialog.h ? ? ?qmemarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldriverplugin.h
>qcolor.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenubar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqleditorfactory.h
>qcombobox.h ? ? ? ? qmenudata.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlerror.h
>qcombo.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenudta.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlfield.h
>qcommonstyle.h ? ? ?qmessagebox.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlform.h
>qcompactstyle.h ? ? qmetaobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsql.h
>qconfig.h ? ? ? ? ? qmetaobj.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlindex.h
>qconnect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmime.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlpropertymap.h
>qconnection.h ? ? ? qmlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlquery.h
>qcstring.h ? ? ? ? ?qmngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlrecord.h
>qcursor.h ? ? ? ? ? qmodules.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlresult.h
>qdatabrowser.h ? ? ?qmotifplusstyle.h ? ? ? ?qsqlselectcursor.h
>qdatastream.h ? ? ? qmotifstyle.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qstack.h
>qdatatable.h ? ? ? ?qmovie.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstatusbar.h
>qdataview.h ? ? ? ? qmsgbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstring.h
>qdatetimeedit.h ? ? qmultilinedit.h ? ? ? ? ?qstringlist.h
>qdatetime.h ? ? ? ? qmultilineedit.h ? ? ? ? qstrlist.h
>qdatetm.h ? ? ? ? ? qmutex.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstrvec.h
>qdeepcopy.h ? ? ? ? qnamespace.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qstylefactory.h
>qdesktopwidget.h ? ?qnetwork.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstyle.h
>qdial.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qnetworkprotocol.h ? ? ? qstyleplugin.h
>qdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qnp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstylesheet.h
>qdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qobjcoll.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsyntaxhighlighter.h
>qdir.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtabbar.h
>qdns.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjectcleanuphandler.h ?qtabdialog.h
>qdockarea.h ? ? ? ? qobjectdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabdlg.h
>qdockwindow.h ? ? ? qobjectdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtable.h
>qdom.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabwidget.h
>qdragobject.h ? ? ? qobjectlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextbrowser.h
>qdrawutil.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdc.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecfactory.h
>qdrawutl.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicedefs.h ? ? ? qtextcodec.h
>qdropsite.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdevice.h ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecplugin.h
>qdstream.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicemetrics.h ? ?qtextedit.h
>qeditorfactory.h ? ?qpaintd.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextstream.h
>qerrormessage.h ? ? qpainter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextview.h
>qeucjpcodec.h ? ? ? qpair.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qt.h
>qeuckrcodec.h ? ? ? qpalette.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthread.h
>qevent.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qpdevmet.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthreadstorage.h
>qeventloop.h ? ? ? ?qpen.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtimer.h
>qfeatures.h ? ? ? ? qpicture.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtl.h
>qfiledef.h ? ? ? ? ?qpixmapcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qtoolbar.h
>qfiledialog.h ? ? ? qpixmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtoolbox.h
>qfiledlg.h ? ? ? ? ?qplatinumstyle.h ? ? ? ? qtoolbutton.h
>qfile.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpmcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtooltip.h
>qfileinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtranslator.h
>qfileinfo.h ? ? ? ? qpntarry.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtsciicodec.h
>qfocusdata.h ? ? ? ?qpointarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtstream.h
>qfontdatabase.h ? ? qpoint.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurl.h
>qfontdialog.h ? ? ? qpolygonscanner.h ? ? ? ?qurlinfo.h
>qfont.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpopmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurloperator.h
>qfontinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpopupmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qutfcodec.h
>qfontinfo.h ? ? ? ? qprintdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? quuid.h
>qfontmet.h ? ? ? ? ?qprinter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvalidator.h
>qfontmetrics.h ? ? ?qprndlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qvaluelist.h
>qframe.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qprocess.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluestack.h
>qftp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qprogbar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluevector.h
>qgarray.h ? ? ? ? ? qprogdlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvariant.h
>qgb18030codec.h ? ? qprogressbar.h ? ? ? ? ? qvbox.h
>qgbkcodec.h ? ? ? ? qprogressdialog.h ? ? ? ?qvbuttongroup.h
>qgcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qpsprn.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvector.h
>qgdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrcollection.h ? ? ? ? qvgroupbox.h
>qgeneric.h ? ? ? ? ?qptrdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwaitcondition.h
>qgif.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwhatsthis.h
>qglcolormap.h ? ? ? qptrqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidcoll.h
>qgl.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qptrstack.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetfactory.h
>qglist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrvector.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidget.h
>qglobal.h ? ? ? ? ? qpushbt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetintdict.h
>qgplugin.h ? ? ? ? ?qpushbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetlist.h
>qgrid.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetplugin.h
>qgridview.h ? ? ? ? qradiobt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetstack.h
>qgroupbox.h ? ? ? ? qradiobutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qwindefs.h
>qgrpbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qrangecontrol.h ? ? ? ? ?qwindowdefs.h
>qguardedptr.h ? ? ? qrangect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwindowsstyle.h
>qgvector.h ? ? ? ? ?qrect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwinexport.h
>qhbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qregexp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwizard.h
>qhbuttongroup.h ? ? qregion.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwmatrix.h
>
>USR/SHARE/QT3/INCLUDE:
>
>sher at Dell:/usr/share/qt3/include$ ls
>private ? ? ? ? ? ? qhostaddress.h ? ? ? ? ? qscrollbar.h
>q1xcompatibility.h ?qhttp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qscrollview.h
>qabstractlayout.h ? qiconset.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsemaphore.h
>qaccel.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qiconview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsemimodal.h
>qaction.h ? ? ? ? ? qimageformatplugin.h ? ? qserversocket.h
>qapp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qimage.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsession.h
>qapplication.h ? ? ?qinputdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qsessionmanager.h
>qarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qintcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsettings.h
>qasciicache.h ? ? ? qintcach.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsgistyle.h
>qasciidict.h ? ? ? ?qintdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qshared.h
>qasyncimageio.h ? ? qinterlacestyle.h ? ? ? ?qsignal.h
>qasyncio.h ? ? ? ? ?qiodev.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsignalmapper.h
>qbig5codec.h ? ? ? ?qiodevice.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsignalslotimp.h
>qbitarray.h ? ? ? ? qjiscodec.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsimplerichtext.h
>qbitarry.h ? ? ? ? ?qjpegio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsizegrip.h
>qbitmap.h ? ? ? ? ? qjpunicode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsize.h
>qbrush.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qkeycode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsizepolicy.h
>qbttngrp.h ? ? ? ? ?qkeysequence.h ? ? ? ? ? qsjiscodec.h
>qbuffer.h ? ? ? ? ? qlabel.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qslider.h
>qbuttongroup.h ? ? ?qlayout.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketdevice.h
>qbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qlcdnumber.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocket.h
>qcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qlcdnum.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketnotifier.h
>qcanvas.h ? ? ? ? ? qlibrary.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocknot.h
>qcdestyle.h ? ? ? ? qlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsortedlist.h
>qcheckbox.h ? ? ? ? qlineedit.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsound.h
>qchkbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qlistbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qspinbox.h
>qcleanuphandler.h ? qlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplashscreen.h
>qclipboard.h ? ? ? ?qlistview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplitter.h
>qclipbrd.h ? ? ? ? ?qlocalfs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlcursor.h
>qcollect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmainwindow.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldatabase.h
>qcollection.h ? ? ? qmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqldriver.h
>qcolordialog.h ? ? ?qmemarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldriverplugin.h
>qcolor.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenubar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqleditorfactory.h
>qcombobox.h ? ? ? ? qmenudata.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlerror.h
>qcombo.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenudta.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlfield.h
>qcommonstyle.h ? ? ?qmessagebox.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlform.h
>qcompactstyle.h ? ? qmetaobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsql.h
>qconfig.h ? ? ? ? ? qmetaobj.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlindex.h
>qconnect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmime.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlpropertymap.h
>qconnection.h ? ? ? qmlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlquery.h
>qcstring.h ? ? ? ? ?qmngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlrecord.h
>qcursor.h ? ? ? ? ? qmodules.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlresult.h
>qdatabrowser.h ? ? ?qmotifplusstyle.h ? ? ? ?qsqlselectcursor.h
>qdatastream.h ? ? ? qmotifstyle.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qstack.h
>qdatatable.h ? ? ? ?qmovie.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstatusbar.h
>qdataview.h ? ? ? ? qmsgbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstring.h
>qdatetimeedit.h ? ? qmultilinedit.h ? ? ? ? ?qstringlist.h
>qdatetime.h ? ? ? ? qmultilineedit.h ? ? ? ? qstrlist.h
>qdatetm.h ? ? ? ? ? qmutex.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstrvec.h
>qdeepcopy.h ? ? ? ? qnamespace.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qstylefactory.h
>qdesktopwidget.h ? ?qnetwork.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstyle.h
>qdial.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qnetworkprotocol.h ? ? ? qstyleplugin.h
>qdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qnp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstylesheet.h
>qdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qobjcoll.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsyntaxhighlighter.h
>qdir.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtabbar.h
>qdns.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjectcleanuphandler.h ?qtabdialog.h
>qdockarea.h ? ? ? ? qobjectdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabdlg.h
>qdockwindow.h ? ? ? qobjectdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtable.h
>qdom.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabwidget.h
>qdragobject.h ? ? ? qobjectlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextbrowser.h
>qdrawutil.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdc.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecfactory.h
>qdrawutl.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicedefs.h ? ? ? qtextcodec.h
>qdropsite.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdevice.h ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecplugin.h
>qdstream.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicemetrics.h ? ?qtextedit.h
>qeditorfactory.h ? ?qpaintd.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextstream.h
>qerrormessage.h ? ? qpainter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextview.h
>qeucjpcodec.h ? ? ? qpair.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qt.h
>qeuckrcodec.h ? ? ? qpalette.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthread.h
>qevent.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qpdevmet.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthreadstorage.h
>qeventloop.h ? ? ? ?qpen.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtimer.h
>qfeatures.h ? ? ? ? qpicture.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtl.h
>qfiledef.h ? ? ? ? ?qpixmapcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qtoolbar.h
>qfiledialog.h ? ? ? qpixmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtoolbox.h
>qfiledlg.h ? ? ? ? ?qplatinumstyle.h ? ? ? ? qtoolbutton.h
>qfile.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpmcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtooltip.h
>qfileinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtranslator.h
>qfileinfo.h ? ? ? ? qpntarry.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtsciicodec.h
>qfocusdata.h ? ? ? ?qpointarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtstream.h
>qfontdatabase.h ? ? qpoint.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurl.h
>qfontdialog.h ? ? ? qpolygonscanner.h ? ? ? ?qurlinfo.h
>qfont.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpopmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurloperator.h
>qfontinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpopupmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qutfcodec.h
>qfontinfo.h ? ? ? ? qprintdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? quuid.h
>qfontmet.h ? ? ? ? ?qprinter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvalidator.h
>qfontmetrics.h ? ? ?qprndlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qvaluelist.h
>qframe.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qprocess.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluestack.h
>qftp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qprogbar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluevector.h
>qgarray.h ? ? ? ? ? qprogdlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvariant.h
>qgb18030codec.h ? ? qprogressbar.h ? ? ? ? ? qvbox.h
>qgbkcodec.h ? ? ? ? qprogressdialog.h ? ? ? ?qvbuttongroup.h
>qgcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qpsprn.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvector.h
>qgdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrcollection.h ? ? ? ? qvgroupbox.h
>qgeneric.h ? ? ? ? ?qptrdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwaitcondition.h
>qgif.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwhatsthis.h
>qglcolormap.h ? ? ? qptrqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidcoll.h
>qgl.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qptrstack.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetfactory.h
>qglist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrvector.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidget.h
>qglobal.h ? ? ? ? ? qpushbt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetintdict.h
>qgplugin.h ? ? ? ? ?qpushbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetlist.h
>qgrid.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetplugin.h
>qgridview.h ? ? ? ? qradiobt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetstack.h
>qgroupbox.h ? ? ? ? qradiobutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qwindefs.h
>qgrpbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qrangecontrol.h ? ? ? ? ?qwindowdefs.h
>qguardedptr.h ? ? ? qrangect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwindowsstyle.h
>qgvector.h ? ? ? ? ?qrect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwinexport.h
>qhbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qregexp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwizard.h
>qhbuttongroup.h ? ? qregion.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwmatrix.h
>qheader.h ? ? ? ? ? qrtlcodec.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qworkspace.h
>qhgroupbox.h ? ? ? ?qscrbar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qxml.h
>sher at Dell:/usr/share/qt3/include$
>
>Benjamin Sher
>delphi123 at zebra.net



From this_address_wont_work at nowhere.net  Thu Mar  4 14:49:33 2004
From: this_address_wont_work at nowhere.net (John Clayton)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:49:33 +0000
Subject: Howl & ZeroConf
References: <2004030419430275249%thisaddresswontwork@nowherenet>
Message-ID: <2004030419493357623%thisaddresswontwork@nowherenet>

On 2004-03-04 19:43:02 +0000, John Clayton 
<this_address_wont_work at nowhere.net> said:

> Hi All
> 
> Has there been any discussion / planning of integrating howl as an 
> external module into Python?
> 
> Links to existing conversations, projects, whatever welcome.  I tried 
> searching google and the 11000 titles on the newsgroup for a few bits 
> and pieces, but not much luck - so thought I'd ask!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John Clayton

test reply to see if my newsreader works - I still don't know the 
answer to my question though!



From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Wed Mar  3 20:53:58 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:58 -0600
Subject: Python and Multi-Physics
Message-ID: <006601c4018b$8ef04750$0200a8c0@D4XN6B41>

Hello everyone,

Thanks very much for your responses. I did get a lot of useful information.

Mr. Fernando, apart from the Applied Math department at University of
Colorado, I think Aerospace Engineering Sciences also does lot of coding in
Python. I am not sure, though.

I am really excited about using Python.  I have'nt been more comfortable
with any other language, ever. I will continue to pursue this in my research
althrough.


Thanks again


Best Regards,
Satish Kumar Chimakurthi



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fernando Perez" <fperez528 at yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Python and Multi-Physics


> Satish Chimakurthi wrote:
>
>
> > If I come to know of more succesful stories in Multi-Physics research
using
> > python, I would like to include them too in my presentation and
emphasize the
> > spirit of using python in scientific research. I know of few companies
like
> > CFDRC and laboratories like LLNL who use python extensively for the kind
of
> > research I am talking about(from web). Is there any other individual or
> > company devoted to such research ? Please let me know. This information
would
> > be of great help to me in presenting my stuff better.
>
> Here's a link you may find of interest:
> http://www.osti.gov/scidac/updatesharrison.html
>
> Some details of this work will be presented at an AMS regional meeting in
> March:
>
> http://e-math.ams.org/amsmtgs/2090_program_ss12.html
>
> Look for the Saturday afternoon sessions for links to the abstracts (the
talks
> aren't written yet :).  All of the work at ORNL and what we at CU Boulder
are
> doing is in python, with C/C++ and Fortran cores for the speed-critical
parts.
> I haven't put any of what we've done online yet, but I'll make sure to
have
> the pdfs for the AMS talks available when they're done.
>
> A guy across the hall from me did his PhD in fluid-structure interactions
> (cavitation calculations for explosions near ships), but he was using
Fortran
> and I've yet to convince him to switch to python :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> f.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

SATISH KUMAR CHIMAKURTHI
Graduate Research Assistant
CFD GROUP
Mechanical Engineering
UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
Lexington
KENTUCKY - 40508
U.S.A

Email: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu
Mobile:859-420-9890
Office: 859-257-6336 X 80691
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From cbrown at metservice.com  Sun Mar 14 14:43:51 2004
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:43:51 +1300
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
	<mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list at python.org...
> I'd agree that time.sleep(interval) should do the same thing on all
> platforms when interval<0, but I'd rather see it always raise an
> exception than sleep for 0 seconds.

I am 100% with you that time.sleep() should perform the same on all
platforms but would rather the sleep(0) for negative args because:
    1.    2**31 seconds is about 68 years so interpreting a negative integer
as unsigned is practically useless
    2.    A common usage of sleep is with the difference of two values. If
it raises an exception on negative numbers then when one takes the
difference of say a timestamp and current-time (real-values), to be safe you
would need to put the difference in a temporary variable, check that for
negative and only sleep for positive values - not very elegant.
    3.    I only came across this in some long-running code that because of
variation in thread code execution times aborted on Linux when a tiny
negative number was produced, hence my concern.
    4.    Other Python behaviour takes the least surprise option, eg
"abc"[-9:] does not raise an exception.

Whatever is decided, the behaviour needs to be documented under time.sleep!

Colin Brown
PyNZ





From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 20:29:36 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:29:36 -0800
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
	<alc460hokb7sj39m06022m4ao5gp9cdbcu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <YBq8c.41435$Bg.28133@fed1read03>


"Gon?alo Rodrigues" <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message
news:alc460hokb7sj39m06022m4ao5gp9cdbcu at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:49:57 GMT, Kenneth McDonald
> <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote:
>
> >For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
> >and then find out the following information about functions and
> >methods defined within it:
> >
> >1) Parameter names and order
> >2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
> >3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
> >parameter list.
> >

I think the inspect.getsource(modname) might be even better.  It will
preserve order and provide these other requests as well.

> >Reading documentation about function objects, the only
> >relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
> >default param values, which is not useful to me.
> >
> >I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
> >I would strongly prefer a simpler way. I'd have thought that,
> >like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
> >would also be stored with function objects.
> >
>
> Check out the inspect module. In particular the getargspec function.
>
> With my best regards,
> G. Rodrigues




From eric at zomething.com  Sat Mar 27 13:39:13 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:39:13 -0800
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
Message-ID: <20040327103913.1721314621.eric@zomething.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> For most general purpose tasks, I reach for Python first.  But if I 
> needed to provide a quick scripting interface to an existing C library, 


I would suggest that one might take an option other than the either/or (Perl/Python/____).  It sounds like having at least some comfort with Perl is important to OP based on relevant code base.  However, Python is so simple to learn, at least at the beginner/intermediate level, that there is not much cost to learning some Python as well.

Personal experience: I struggled to becoming proficient with Perl due to its syntax and perhaps my lack of bottomless commitment (knowing Perl would not be my bread and butter).  Somehow I stumbled upon a little bit of Python and got sucked in.  Now I am probably more proficient at Perl than I was before I started using Python (except for needing to look up Perl syntax from time to time) because working with Python took my head out of the syntax and let my mind focus on the problem solving... and more importantly, the objective.

Python has me feeling like I can make a program to do _anything_ I want, even though I doubt it is any more capable than Perl, etc.  It's matter of clarity and better being able to see the forest, rather than a whole lot of trees.

This might sound like something less than a firm choice, but perhaps OP might decide to start digging into Perl in April, but allow one weekend in that month for Python and let things evolve as best suits his situation.


Eric Pederson

"maybe what be need to deal with all the useful Perl code out there is a Perl-to-Python translator that worked at least well enough to read the code easily as Python source (even if it might not run without exceptions).  What language would you write that in?"  :-)



From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Fri Mar 12 16:09:28 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:09:28 +0100
Subject: overloading __getattr__ and inheriting from dict
References: <mailman.325.1079118457.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.12.21.09.28.608129@ifrance.com>

Le Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:05:55 -0800, Robert Brewer a ?crit?:

>  return dict.__getitem__(self, name)

which is the same as
 return dict.__getitem__(self, name)

i just want to KISS my class, and don't understand what is the problem
with __getattr__



From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Sat Mar 13 14:22:51 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:22:51 +0100
Subject: need optimizing help
References: <68aadb4a.0403131007.8eeeb26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.13.19.22.51.105205@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:07:54 -0800, rabbits77 wrote:

> I have a dictionary with a very very large(possibly millions) of
> key/value pairs.
> The key is a tuple that looks like (id,date)
> What is the fastest way to get out all of the values that match any
> key given that they individual key elements are coming from two
> seperate lists?
> The approach of
> for id in IDS:
>     for date in dates:
>         data=myDict[(id,date)]
> 
> seems to just take too long. Is there a speedier, more pythonic, way
> of doing this? Any help speeding this up would be much appreciated!!

if IDS and dates lenght is the same, you could write
for i in enumerate(IDS):
    data=myDict[(IDS[i],dates[i])]

which is more good looking, but I think performances are similar.

my 2 cents.

Riccardo


From catcher at linuxmail.org  Mon Mar 15 21:48:54 2004
From: catcher at linuxmail.org (Robert)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:48:54 -0500
Subject: Tkinter3000
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1079269830.745.python-list@python.org>
References: <89WdnQhnm6Gkwdfd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>
	<mailman.23.1079269830.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Oo2dnUGyodOL9svd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> "Robert" wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is the WCK still an active project?
> 
> 
> yes.  wck 1.0 for tkinter was released in december 2003, and
> should be considered as a stable release.
> 
> 
>>Also, at one point there was going to be an O'Reilly book on
>>Tkinter, did that die?
> 
> 
> yes.
> 
Ah so sad...


From scott at artifex.com  Thu Mar 18 07:04:42 2004
From: scott at artifex.com (Scott Sackett)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:04:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Automatic response to your mail
Message-ID: <200403181204.HAA13001@intrepid.cnchost.com>

Thanks for contacting me at Artifex Software.  I will be 
out of my office from Monday, March 15th until Thursday 
March 18th.  I will be on Vacation.
If you need to contact me urgently, please contact Ms. 
Joann Owens, our office manager at(415) 492-9861.  I'll be 
in contact with her on an every other day basis.

Best regards,

Scott Sackett
Vice President Sales
Artifex Software



From no at sp.am  Wed Mar 10 20:37:29 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:37:29 -0600
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <irudnZKm-PpGX9LdRVn-gw@comcast.com>


I would prefer "anonymous" or "implicit" things be referred to by 
nothing at all instead of @.  For example, instead of "self.x", just 
have ".x".  Instead of lambda, allow for unnamed "def" code blocks with 
[] or () to allow for multiple lines.
def (optional params) [optional decorator]: [
   some code here...
   ]

Some things I might like to see in python, in no particular order:
   - an "=~" operator
   - pychecker bundled with python, since it catches so many errors
       beginners and non-beginners make.
   - allow for curly braces to specify a multi-line code block so []
       and () are not abused.
   - use the keyword "function" instead of "def"
   - make colons optional after function and class declarations.  People
       forget to type them anyway.
   - be able to refer to variables case-insensitively though they
       are still stored case-sensitively.  Make keywords like None,
       True, and False case insensitive.
   - no more "self" parameter required for class methods.  If need be,
       maybe class instance methods could be specified by
       starting the name with "."

Of course, the chances of any of these happening in python = None, so a 
better long term idea is to make it easier for people to create custom 
scripting languages for a common virtual machine like jvm, parrot, maybe 
python in python (pypy), etc.
http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.html
http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?home
http://www.parrotcode.org/


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar  4 14:22:31 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:22:31 -0600
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?
References: <fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <99CdneiwxINqHNrdRVn-gw@comcast.com>

I learned a lot from the following two books:

Python 2.1 Bible, Dave Brueck and Stephen Tanner

and

Python Programming on Win32 by Mark Hammond and
 Andy Robinson

You also need a copy of the Standard Library
that you can get from www.python.org.

Larry Bates


"Larry" <surfunbear at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d at posting.google.com...
> I'm a C++/java programmer and have done a bunch of perl coding.
> I am thinking of maybe learning python. What's a good intro primer, easy
to read
> good examples, understandable, maybe not one of those 2 inch thick books
etc. ?




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 06:58:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:58:06 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>

user at domain.invalid wrote:
> Ellinghaus, Lance wrote:
> 
>> I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but 
>> how
>> would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()?
>> Would this be done by "del sys.modules['modulename']" and then perform an
>> 'import'?
> 
> Ah, interesting! I've been doing this:
> 
> del modulename; import modulename
> 
> but it doesn't pick up any recent changes to the modulename.py file.
> 
> That's a better solution than exiting Python and starting it up again. 

Just to clarify, *neither* of the above solutions does anything useful, 
as far as I know.  Only reload() will really reload a module.  Certainly 
the del mod/import mod approach is practically a no-op...

-Peter


From nospam at nowhere.hu  Fri Mar  5 18:31:46 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.hu (Miklós)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:31:46 +0100
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
References: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2b2ei$4st$1@namru.matavnet.hu>

It's a nice work.. Well done.
Maybe you could mention briefly one the main strongholds of Python, i.e. its
extensibility.

Best,
Mikl?s

"Swaroop C H" <python at g2swaroop.net> wrote in message
news:5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f at posting.google.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a written a book on Python which serves as a tutorial or
> guide for anyone who wants to learn Python. It specifically targets
> beginners but experienced programmers can benefit a lot with the
> special notes for them.
>
> This is my first attempt at writing anything so huge and so I am looking
> forward to your suggestions and criticisms so that I can further improve
the
> book.
>
> Thanks,
> Swaroop C H
> www.python.g2swaroop.net




From http  Mon Mar 22 18:04:14 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 15:04:14 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

trevp at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin) writes:
> Slightly OT, but...
> 
> What about a subclass of Random that provides an interface to
> platform-specific secure RNGs:
>  - /dev/urandom on some unixes
>  - CryptGenRandom on windows
>  - SecureRandom on Java
> 
> I think you've suggested this yourself, a few times.  Is any work
> being done in this direction?

I think it's extremely desirable and important to add such an
interface, and maybe it should go in the random module, but it
shouldn't be a subclass of Random.  Random is intended to be a
deterministic generator.

I have a pretty dim view of the built-in SecureRandom that comes with
Java (the one that works by counting thread switches per second) but I
guess it can also be subclassed to use better sources of entropy.


From altis at semi-retired.com  Mon Mar 29 13:53:34 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:53:34 -0800
Subject: Python in education wiki page needs your input
Message-ID: <0c_9c.23$Pl.27739@news.uswest.net>

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonInEducation

I've created a wiki page to track schools that are using Python in their
curriculum. I'm most interested in colleges and universities around the
world, but K-12 schools can also be added to the list. I need your help to
make this list complete.

I would like to confirm that each of the schools in the list is still using
Python in their curriculum by linking to a specific web page with a course
listing and/or the professor(s) teaching classes that involve the use of
Python. Each listing should also be expanded with a description of how
Python is being used.
This list is not limited to the use of Python in computer science courses,
other disciplines in science, liberal arts, etc. are also appropriate.

Thanks for your input,

ka




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 17 02:58:35 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:58:35 +0100
Subject: Semantics of ==
In-Reply-To: <4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <40580514$0$213$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Erik Max Francis wrote:


 > You're creating recursive lists (which is extremely rare in the real
 > world; I've never seen anyone create a self-referencing list in
 > real-life code.  Tree structures and even recursive data structures are
 > one thing, but you're considering a very weird corner case here.


Actually they are not that seldom. I have made several. But off course 
when I got my recursive code debugged they where gone


;-)


regards Max M


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 10:54:11 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:11 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
Message-ID: <8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:45:24 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>
>> I know this is the *intended* behavior of reload(), but it has always
>> seemed to me like a bug.  Why would you *ever* want to keep pieces of
>> an old module when that module is reloaded?
>
>If you wanted a dynamic module, where changes would be picked up by the 
>application from time to time, but didn't want to terminate existing 
>instances of the old version.  There's nothing wrong with the idea that 
>both old and new versions of something could exist in memory, at least 
>for a while until the old ones are finished whatever they are doing.

OK, I agree this is a valid mode of operation.

>Basically, envision an application update mechanism for long-running 
>applications, and its special needs.

I think a good example might be some objects that need to retain the
state they had before the reload.

>> Seems to me we should *fix* reload, not deprecate it.
>
>Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least 
>until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one 
>problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its behaviour.

It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when what you
need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace every
reference to objects in the old module with references to the new
objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when those
references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.

For the *exceptional* case where we want to pick and chose which
objects to update, seems like the best solution would be to add some
options to the reload function.  

def reload(<module>, objects = '*'):

The default second argument '*' updates all references.  '?' prompts
for each object.  A list of objects updates references to just those
objects automatically.  'None' would replicate the current behavior,
updating only the name of the module itself.

The '?' mode would normally ask one question for each object in the
module to be reloaded, and then update all references to the selected
objects.  We could even have a '??' mode that would prompt for each
*reference* to each object.  

In a typical debug session, there is only one object that you have
updated, so I think there would seldom be a need to enter more than
one name as the second argument.

> I think that when you consider Python's namespace mechanism, you can't 
> avoid the possibility of situations like the ones reload can now lead to.

I don't understand.  My assumption is you would normally update all
references to the selected objects in all namespaces.

-- Dave



From spam_bait101 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 16:32:51 2004
From: spam_bait101 at yahoo.com (sb)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 13:32:51 -0800
Subject: wx delivery queshun
Message-ID: <221dd125.0403081332.5863daef@posting.google.com>

If you write your app using wxPython & GL, how do you deliver it to
users on Windows? Do you expect them to

RTFM
install python
RTFM
install wx
RTFM
install swig (needed to compile pyopengl)
RTFM
install pyopengl
RTFM
install wxpython
install your easy-to-use-and-install app

Seriously?


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Mar 31 11:28:23 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:28:23 GMT
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<jrk360l8atn02kpknap7srnmhvk0hq3j5h@4ax.com>
	<c3v3jg$2chetr$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <HkCac.9614$lt2.3142@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Brandon J. Van Every, refering to Chimera from UCSF
> Thanks for the link.  It does demonstrate heavy Python usage for 3D
> graphics; pity it is freely licensed only for noncommercial use.
> http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/licensing.html

Then in that realm see also:
  VMD - C++ with embedded Tcl *and* Python, UIUC
  PyMol - Python and C++, DeLano Scientific
  PMV - almost all Python, Scripps

PyMol is definitely open source.  The others have different
levels of souce accessibility.  There's also visualization
programs like Vida from OpenEye which are commercial
w/o source code availability.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 05:05:00 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 02:05:00 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<40655266$0$557$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <%wS9c.58359$cx5.856@fed1read04>

> I do not yet know in detail how Prothon deals with module
namespaces. These are important for larger scale programs,
so I hope they got that right.

I hope so too.  We basicly have "module globals" exactly like Python.  See
"Module Globals and Real Globals" at http://prothon.org/description-3.htm.
Please let me know if we got it wrong.

> One thing I'm missing on the website is support for basic
> structured datatypes like the list and the dictionary in Python.

This is identical to Python.  Dict is not fully implemented at this time.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)


"Ype Kingma" <ykingma at accessforall.nl> wrote in message
news:40655266$0$557$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> Michele Simionato wrote:
>
> > David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> > news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
> >> What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
> >> use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
> >> some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
> >> to be just templates to produce other objects.
> >
> > Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> > "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading
;-)
>
> The implementation of indentation is a minor issue.
> Many editors have facilities to deal with them.
> The point is that Prothon uses indentation. I hope
> this will help in making it at least as easy to read
> and maintain as Python. Who knows, at some point Prothon
> might 'fall back' to spaces...
>
> I like the prototypes _very_ much. They leave out many of the
> implicit mechanisms in classes and they are relatively easy
> to explain.
>
> My first impression is that one can use prototypes like classes,
> but they allow more flexibility. I wonder what influence they
> will have on the classic class/object dichotomy in OO land.
>
> As for the 'with' statement: I remember getting introduced to it
> in Pascal, where it led to confusion an did not contribute to
> code readability because of that. Pascal allowed more than
> one variable to be used in the 'with' statement iirc.
>
> On the contrary, the examples in Prothon are quite readable:
> no confusion because there is only one implied variable, and
> there is syntax (the leading dot) to show where it is used.
>
> I do not yet know in detail how Prothon deals with module
> namespaces. These are important for larger scale programs,
> so I hope they got that right.
>
> One thing I'm missing on the website is support for basic
> structured datatypes like the list and the dictionary in Python.
> The syntax support that Python has for these greatly
> contributes to useability.
>
> Regards,
> Ype
>




From brendan_newsgroups at mail.com  Thu Mar 11 03:24:15 2004
From: brendan_newsgroups at mail.com (Brendan)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 00:24:15 -0800
Subject: WxPython wxTreeCtrl with HTML labels
Message-ID: <e32357bc.0403110024.53ddb4df@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am looking for any pointers on creating a Tree control which can
render html snippets as labels.

On each leaf of the tree I want to show text, but with more formatting
than is allowed with the standard wxTreeCtrl. I have expermented with
wxTreeListCtrl but it does not give the flexibility of html.

Would it be possible to derive from wxTreeCtrl or wxTreeLayout? Or
would it be simpler to use a number of ctrls and make it look like on
single tree?

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Brendan


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 17 16:01:03 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:01:03 -0500
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>

"Rocco Moretti" <roccomoretti at hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:c3a966$jqj$1 at news.doit.wisc.edu...
> Brett C. wrote:
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Do we really need mutability for exceptions groups?
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > The question was raised as to why ``except (TypeError, ValueError):``
> > is acceptable while ``except [TypeError, ValueError]:`` (in other
> > words why use tuples to group exceptions for an 'except' statement and
> > not allow lists).  The question was in relation as to whether it had
> > something to do with a tuple's immutability.
> >
> > Guido said it all had to do with a visual way of grouping tuples and
> > nothing to do with what the underlying container was.  If he had it to
> > do over again he would rather change it so that ``except TypeError,
> > ValueError:`` did the same thing as above.  That change would
> > alleviate the common error of expecting the above behavior using that
> > syntax but instead getting the exception instance bound to ValueError.
> >  But the change is not planned for any time in the future since Guido
> > has no proposal on how to change the syntax to handle the assignment
> > to a local variable for the exception instance.
>
> Generalizing it to any iterable would be nice, especially with
> situations where you have the exception types stored in a variable:
>
> catch = (TypeError, ValueError, MyValueError)
> ...
> try:
>      #Body
> except catch:
>      #Error code
>
> If you need to dynamically add exceptions, it may be easier to use a
> list, and using general iterables opens up all sorts of fun with
> generators. (Is time savings all that big of deal here?)

Why would you need to dynamically add exceptions? My mind
is beginning to boggle trying to find a use case for this.


> As far as Python3000 syntax, has anyone suggested 'as' abuse?
>
> try:
>      #Body
> except TypeError, ValueError as e:
>      #Error code
>
> I'm not sure if this is compatable with the parser or not, but it looks
> nice ...

Well, since except is a statement, the parser shouldn't have a
problem with it. (except that as isn't a keyword - strange
exception, that.)

However, today it's only used in the import statement. If it
gets put into other statements, then it raises the question of
orthoganality.

John Roth
>
> -Rocco




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 09:39:31 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:39:31 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> It is not about Python being "less flexible" than Java, Python is 
> evolving.  

Note that I specifically mentioned .pyc files vs. java class files,
not Java the language/environment/platform vs. Python.

 > It is also stated in the docs somewhere that bytecode is not
> guaranteed to be forwards or backwards compatible.

Ah ok.

> IMO you are better off packaging them with py2exe or an equivalent for 
> your platform.  Then you can guarantee that your users are running 
> python version x.y.z, and not x.y.a (minor releases are to fix 
> relatively important bugs, which may effect the execution of your program).

Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.

Perhaps one day .pyc files can work in such a manner.

> Such a PRE would not be small, and trying to get compatible versions of 
> all of those 3rd party modules, for every supported platform, would be a 
> pain in the ass.

That it would not be small I will agree with you on, however I don't
believe version [in]compatibilities will become a PITA as it isn't so
even today.

The whole idea of a Python Runtime Environment came to me precisely
because I have tried out Pygame, PyOpenGL, PyGTK on both Win32 and
Linux and they work seamlessly and uniformly on both platforms (not sure
on OS X though).  Note that these are modules that tie intimately with
_different_ low-level APIs on each platform but they work so flawlessly
that it reminds of me of Java's WORA which has been a reality for a
long time now.  The main difference is that with Python, getting all
these different modules (for multimedia, 3d acceleration, GUI) installed
involves more steps (though quite easy).  Also, because these work
on top of C-based APIs, the performance is significantly superior to
Java's.

> There already exist 3rd party Python distributions with various add-ons. 
>  I don't know of any off the top of my head (because I have no need for 
> them), but I have heard mention of them here.

ActiveState's and Pythonware's are the two I am aware of.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 17:44:35 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:44:35 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
	<988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>
	<a3m560hct5ria1cqn27noipmishfpbu8qf@4ax.com>
	<pr766090m2v0i5t1108b92nbtk38u540l8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1fl660532t2rffk3f7klh4g1ei9rnhi3p9@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:48:24 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>[David MacQuigg]:
>Using a symbol to introduce an extension doesn't mean we can't add
>more extensions later.  If we extend the def statement now with
>$(staticmethod)

Ah - I see what you mean.

I'm not sure I'm convinced, but I get how this has better
compatibility (the name need not be a keyword or pseudo-keyword, for
instance, and cannot conflict with user identifiers).

>[Stephen Horne]:
>>What I might use is something like...
>>
>>  pragma printoptions ( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' ) :
>>    print "whatever"
>>    print "something else"
>>
>>...as a general way of providing standard-behaviour-overriding flags
>>for built-ins.
>
>[David MacQuigg]:
>I like this.  It keeps the basic syntax of the print statement clean.
>It avoids a lot of typing in situations where there is a repetition of
>the same 'decoration' on many statemtents.  The main drawback I see is
>that in many situations, the modifcation is 'one time only'.  Then we
>have *three* statements instead of one. ( We need a statement to
>restore the default printoptions.)

No, we need two statements. There is no need to restore the default
printoptions - only to dedent out of the block where the non-default
printoptions are set. The implementation would have printoptions in a
stack structure, so the most recent override can always be easily
referenced.

The two-line format for isolated prints needing non-default options
isn't too bad as it would be a struggle to keep such print statements
on one line in practical cases anyway.

The biggest problem would be the case where there are prints dotted
throughout the code which all use the same nondefault options. And
even then, you could probably use something like...

  pragma printoptions ( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' ) :
    main_program_call ()

>Using the "common-symbol-for-a statement-extension" syntax, we could
>modify multiple statements without too much clutter using something
>like:
>
>opts = printoptions( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' )
>print @(opts) "whatever"
>print @(opts) "something else"

OK - this certainly has advantages. But it assumes that the only way
to extend a print statement would be to accept some kind of attributes
from a specified object.

If you're really doing named extensions, that should be...

  opts = printoptions( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' )
  print @(printoptions: opts) "whatever"

Otherwise, your standard extensions symbol isn't standard - it is used
to do different things in different contexts, as its use to apply
decorators in def is fundamentally different to its use to apply
printoptions in print.

Alternately, instead of allowing your symbol to handle any new
extension syntax, it could just handle one syntax - applying
nonstandard options. In this case, the decorators example might become
something like...

  def name (args) @{ "decorators" : [deco1, deco2, deco3]} :
    pass

Or, for convenience...

  opts = { "decorators" : [deco1, deco2, deco3]}

  def name (args) @opts :
    pass

Actually, I quite like this. I suspect that pretty much any extension
to a statement could be handled using a set of named options stored in
a dictionary.


>[David MacQuigg]:
>>>I guess I'll need an example here.  Seems like the potential for
>>>future incompatibilities is *greater* if the syntax itself has
>>>"special meaning" ( e.g. "decorators" instead of [] ).
>
>[Stephen Horne]:
>>If a statement has a 'decorators' extension syntax, it can always add
>>a 'widget' or 'blodget' extension syntax later, being clear to both
>>the parser and the reader.
>
>[David MacQuigg]:
>So to make the example more concrete, I assume you would do something
>like:
>
>def func1( x, y, z ) decorators(staticmethod), blodgett(gradoo):
>
>instead of:
>
>def func1( x, y, z ) [staticmethod, gradoo]:

No, if 'gradoo' is a kind of decorator I'd do something like...

  def func1( x, y, z ) decorators(staticmethod, gradoo) :

And you'd presumably do something like...

  def func1( x, y, z ) $(decorators: staticmethod, gradoo) :

But I thought you were suggesting something like...

  def func1( x, y, z ) $ staticmethod, gradoo :

Looking back I think I just missed where you said your standard symbol
syntax would also name the extension. Then, taking the paragraph...

>[David MacQuigg]:
>>>I guess I'll need an example here.  Seems like the potential for
>>>future incompatibilities is *greater* if the syntax itself has
>>>"special meaning" ( e.g. "decorators" instead of [] ).

I was thrown by the "I guess I'll need an example here" with no
apparant example given, and by the "... if the syntax itself has
"special meaning"", which I took to mean you thought I shouldn't have
a name (ie shouldn't specify the special meaning) though now I see
that your suggestion names the extension too.

I'm still scratching my head a little, but at least now I know that I
was confused ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From nigel at axoninstruments.co.uk  Wed Mar  3 04:14:59 2004
From: nigel at axoninstruments.co.uk (nigel at axoninstruments.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:14:59 +0000
Subject: Handling 16-bit .WAV audio files
Message-ID: <f68b40lek1b3k0k2e2ncnfiik3ei2ladsu@4ax.com>

I'm trying to handle 16-bit .WAV format audio files.  I've started
with the code below (from pythonapocrypha.com).  I can successfully
read in the 16-bit code, using Numeric.fromstring, as they suggest in
the comments below.  

However, I can't manage to write the samples, I always seem to get 32
bits per sample (yes, it is set to mono!).  

It seems that I need to use Numeric.tostring, with an option to set it
to 'Numeric.Int16', but that is only available in Numeric.fromstring?

Do I need to convert the array somehow to a 16 bit signed integer
type?

What should I be doing to convert my final array to a suitable string
of 16-bit values?

Nigel


########################################
import Numeric
import wave

BUFFER_SIZE=5000
# NB: This is an 8-bit stereo .wav file. If it had a different
# sample size, such as 16-bits, we would need to convert the 
# sequence of bytes into an array of 16-bit integers by 
# calling Numeric.fromstring(Data,Numeric.Int16)
InFile=wave.open("LoudLeft.wav","rb") 
OutFile=wave.open("QuietLeft.wav","wb")
OutFile.setparams(InFile.getparams())
while 1:
    # Read audio data as a string of bytes:
    Data=InFile.readframes(BUFFER_SIZE)
    if len(Data)==0:
        break
    # Create an array based on the string:
    Frames=Numeric.array(Data,
        typecode=Numeric.UnsignedInt8,savespace=1)
    # Take every other frame to get just the left side. And,
    # divide each one by 2. (We would like to use
    # Numeric.divide(Frames[::2],2), but we can't,
    # because the returned array would have float type). 
    Frames[::2] = Frames[::2]/2
    OutFile.writeframes(Frames.tostring())
InFile.close()
OutFile.close()


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 18 14:30:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:30:22 -0600
Subject: shutils.move lose files !
In-Reply-To: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>
References: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040318193021.GB1796@unpythonic.net>

The same happens on Linux:
$ mkdir a; python2.3 -c 'import shutil; shutil.move("a", "a/c")'
$ ls -l a
ls: a: No such file or directory

Unix mv has a test that prevents this:
$ mkdir a; mv a a/c
mv: cannot move `a' to a subdirectory of itself, `a/c'

I've created a sourceforge bug report about this.  Visit here:
    http://python.org/sf/919012

Jeff



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 21:47:40 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:47:40 -0800
Subject: Traceback (most recent call last):
In-Reply-To: <5497c46e.0403231810.5f040d02@posting.google.com>
References: <5497c46e.0403231810.5f040d02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3qt27$qpj$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> # If no arguments were given, print a helpful message
> if len(sys.argv)==1:
>     print 'Usage: celsius temp1 temp2 ...'
>     sys.exit(0)
> 
> # Loop over the arguments
> for i in sys.argv[1:]:
>     try: 
>         fahrenheit=float(string.atoi(i))

You should try the below instead, then you don't need string.

           farenheit = float(i)

If someone were to pass in an integer with more than 309 significant 
digits (and you kept the original float(string.atoi(i)) ), you would 
receive:
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float

which wouldn't be handled by the subsequent except clause.

>     except string.atoi_error:
>       print repr(i), "not a numeric value"

Just because string fails to convert a value to an integer, doesn't mean 
that the value isn't numeric.  It could very well have been a number 
with a decimal point (which would raise ValueError), or even (as 
previously mentioned), too large.

>     else:
>       celsius=(fahrenheit-32)*5.0/9.0

Farenheit is already a float, so math with it will proceed with floating 
point values, no need for "*5.0/9.0", "*5/9" is sufficient.

>       print '%i\260F = %i\260C' % (int(fahrenheit), int(celsius+.5))

Why are you converting these floats to integers?  Is that part of the 
spec of the output?  Why are you adding .5 to celcius, round(val, 
digits) would work better.

> After I type in the above code in new window save as temperature.py
> when I click Run Module, Python show me the following error message
> 
> Usage: celsius temp1 temp2 ...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python23/Temperature.py", line 15, in -toplevel-
>     sys.exit(0)
> SystemExit: 0
> 
> Anyone have idea how to solve this up... I am using python 2.3(IDLE)
> (Python GUI)

Running a module in idle does not allow you to pass in parameters, and 
Idle captures sys.exit calls so that you don't accidentally kill idle 
with unsaved documents open.  Open up a command prompt and do the following:

C:\>cd \Python23
C:\Python23>python Temperature.py temp1 temp2 temp3

It should run as you expect.

  - Josiah


From jblazi at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 16:04:02 2004
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:04:02 +0100
Subject: How to use Sockets with wxPython?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>

I am having this problem:
I use Python for my teaching and right now we are trying to implement some
sort of very simple graphical game the pupils can play across the
Internet. For this, we use wxPython.

Now it has turned out that wxPython does not implement wxWidget sockets,
so we have to use Python sockets instead. Implementing a separate thread
for this would be too complicated and I am going to use the wxIdle event
to do the socket processing, as the amount of data sent from one player to
the other is very small.

Could somebody show me, how to use Pythin socket in "polling mode" and
how to achieve this? I am not expecting a complete program, an outline of
the logic woul suffice.

TIA,

-- 
jb


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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From barry at goodconsultants.com  Sat Mar 13 19:13:15 2004
From: barry at goodconsultants.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?QmF6IKTRqrA=?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:13:15 -0000
Subject: How to move and then use an installed python?
Message-ID: <c3082r+p5ke@eGroups.com>

All,

If I have installed python 2.3.3 in /opt/thirdparty directory. Can I 
copy the contents of the thirdparty directory to my rpm/SOURCES 
directory as part of my software_a rpm package then reuse it and 
install in /home/mydir?

So I have tried this and i have the following errors:

error: Failed dependencies:
        /opt/thirdparty/bin/python is needed by Avalon-dev-de

How can I use an installed python package? Should I build it with a 
different option?

Thanks

B.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 19:54:59 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:54:59 -0800
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
References: <mailman.106.1079559684.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-2432A0.16545917032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.106.1079559684.742.python-list at python.org>,
 "Tony Meyer" <t-meyer at ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> [Oliver Kurz]
> > I call the uid like this
> > 
> > uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")
> 
> [Donn Cave]
> > Have you tried uid("STORE", uid, "+FLAGS", "(\SEEN)")?
> 
> I was bitten by this just the other day.  Donn is correct, adding the
> surrounding parentheses fixes the problem.

Actually it looks to me like there are parentheses in either
case.  What I wanted to try is two separate parameters, rather
than the whole thing "+FLAGS(\SEEN)" as one parameter.  I think
that will solve the problem, but am just guessing.

As far as I know, this is different from the parenthesis issue
you allude to.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar  7 15:47:54 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:47:54 -0500
Subject: no inline comments
References: <f20ea932.0403071013.2d5e734c@posting.google.com>
	<s5ovemxbkt98$.13eip0ev07e55$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <104n2n9eklui58f@news.supernews.com>


"Lawrence Oluyede" <raims at dot.com> wrote in message
news:s5ovemxbkt98$.13eip0ev07e55$.dlg at 40tude.net...
> In data 7 Mar 2004 10:13:46 -0800, Tomasz Stochmal ha scritto:
>
> > One lacking feature is inline comments like in C /* this is comnment */
> >
> > What is a chance of introducing it to next release of Python ?
>
> What do you mean? You can use the triple quote:
>
> """
> This is a multiline
> inline comment
> """

That's not a comment. It's a string. Try putting
it in the middle of another statement and you'll
see the difference.

The reason it looks like a comment is that a string,
all by itself, is a perfectly valid expression, so you
can put one wherever you could put a statement.

John Roth
>
>
> -- 
> Lawrence
> "Avevo Halo, poi ? arrivato Zelda... e ho buttato Halo."




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 10:38:19 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:38:19 -0600
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
In-Reply-To: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <16480.23019.816830.444586@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    webmaster> The last pyOpenSSL has been released in September 2002.
    webmaster> pyOpenSSL is dead or not?

Maybe it's just really stable.  Have you contacted the author?

Skip



From neoneye at adslhome.dk  Wed Mar 24 15:53:09 2004
From: neoneye at adslhome.dk (Simon Strandgaard)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:53:09 +0100
Subject: Unit testing fundamentals (was: Python for large projects)
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.357.1080147061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1063jii8nfs00a5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.24.20.53.07.574890@adslhome.dk>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:07:14 +0000, Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <mailman.357.1080147061.742.python-list at python.org>,
> gabor  <gabor at z10n.net> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>>(a more generic request: is there on the internet a webpage with
>>something like this? one where they have some complex
>>modules/programs/algorithms, and they show how to write unittests for
>>them?)
> 			.

Take a look at my regexp engine, it contains both whitebox tests which
utilizes mock objects and blackbox tests at different levels.

http://rubyforge.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/cgi/viewcvs.cgi/projects/regexp_engine/test/?cvsroot=aeditor&only_with_tag=b2004_02_26


Don't let the output fool you, there is still lots of bugs!
server> ruby test_all.rb 
Loaded suite Unnamed TestSuite
Started
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Finished in 6.794145 seconds.

657 tests, 780 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors
server>

--
Simon Strandgaard


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 22 02:49:13 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:49:13 -0800
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
References: <mailman.223.1079927977.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405E9A79.59E94615@alcyone.com>

Brian Quinlan wrote:

> Do you really think that is easier than:
> 
> usersmod = __import__(modname)

I figured he was doing a little leg-pulling.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Life is not a spectacle or a feast; it is a predicament.
    -- George Santayana


From michael at foord.net  Wed Mar 31 02:45:44 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 23:45:44 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.116.1080653744.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403302345.4112c94c@posting.google.com>

Hugh Macdonald <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.116.1080653744.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> On 30 Mar 2004 05:18:58 -0800
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:
> 
> > 'Programming Python' has an excellent introduction.. so I started with
> > Tkinter thinking that when I hit restrictions I could move onto wx. I
> > haven't yet reached the point where Tkinter restricts me. Whereas
> > there are a couple of widgets missing from the standard distribution,
> > Tkinter *can* be used to make clean and modern looking interfaces.....
> > And the syntax isn't too gawky once you've climbed the initial
> > learning curve.
> 
> For me, the issue with TK is less the restrictions it imposes and more the way of writing it in the first place.

I guess there are two 'warts' :

callback functions are usually called without parameters.

Wrapping the GUI framework in a class gets round this nicely - the
callback function has full access to the class instance attributes.

The second is the way that events are triggered with an event object :
self.searchbox.bind('<Return>', (lambda event: self.search()))

Using a lambda function to trigger a callback function gets round
that.

Once you get used to the pack order with Tk it's remarkably easy to
build GUIs quickly....

I guess for *big* applications some of the 'power' widgets might be
missing from the standard distribution. In that sense wx is
undoubtably more polished and fully featured.... But so far for me -
Tk has more than covered my needs without even exploring extension
widget sets. Apparently one of the more high powered IDEs (I forget
which one) is seamlessly built from Tk widgets.... but you'd never
realise it to look at it - so I guess the potential is there.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


> 
> > > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> > > 
> > 
> > Is this Linux only ? 
> > (pardon my terrible ignorance...)
> 
> Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...
> 
> > > Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
> > > 
> > Although *technically* cross platform, windoze users can't get a free
> > version... so I'm never going to bother looking at it...
> 
> That doesn't bother me - everything I'm writing is for in-house use only, and would only ever be run on Linux...
> 
> Thanks for everyones thoughts... I'm actually planning on sticking with wxPython for the moment. I've decided that I can live with the extra few seconds to load up, although I don't like it...


From sebastian.tusk at silver-style.com  Thu Mar  4 05:47:26 2004
From: sebastian.tusk at silver-style.com (Sebastian Tusk)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:47:26 +0100
Subject: PySequence_Check on class instance
Message-ID: <4047093E.3040103@silver-style.com>

PySequence_Check returns 1 for instances of a simple class. Even if this 
class doesn't implement __len__ and __getitem__.

The following code thus fails with an exception for classes that doesn't 
implement the sequence protocol.

if (PySequence_Check( instance )) {
	int size = PySequence_Size( instance );
}

Is this intended behaviour or a bug?


Regards,
Sebastian



From rainerd at eldwood.com  Mon Mar  1 16:42:21 2004
From: rainerd at eldwood.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:42:21 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> The right thing to do (if it were to happen at all) is to make
> fileobject.softspace "sticky" under some condition, perhaps after a
> call to fileobject.SetSoftSpace(False) (which doesn't currently
> exist).

The right thing to do is to put make stdout a builtin and deprecate the
print statement.  The "smart" behavior of the print statement causes more
trouble than it's worth.  I admit that I use the print statement myself
occasionally, but only because 'sys.stdout.write' is too long to type all
the time, and never with more than one argument.


-- 
Rainer Deyke - rainerd at eldwood.com - http://eldwood.com




From bob at redivi.com  Fri Mar  5 17:40:48 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:40:48 -0500
Subject: Upgrade 2.2.2 to 2.3.3: Keep my old 3rd party modules or
	rebuild them or 
References: <4048E752.75F37710@sdf.lonestar.org>
Message-ID: <2004030517404875249%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-05 15:47:14 -0500, Eduardo Bernal <breetai at sdf.lonestar.org> said:

> I'd like to upgrade to 2.3.3, mostly to use VPython. I have a lot of
> stuff not in the standard distro,
> VPython, PIL, wxPython, eGenix tools, etc. How much of this stuff can I
> still use as is, i.e. just copying over the 2.2 site-lib stuff to the
> 2.3 site-lib stuff? What will I have to rebuild? TIA

Rebuild it all.



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Mar  8 23:30:24 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 05:30:24 +0100
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12dq1z2aca4l2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Jason Tishler (2004-03-08 17:28 +0100)
> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:01:05AM -0700, Fernando Perez wrote:
>> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Does rebasing your Cygwin installation help?
> 
>     http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README

This helped with the IPython problem, thanks. Unfortunately idle under
Cygwin has the same problem. I rebased the five TclTk dlls but that
didn't changed the error ("os error: resource temporarily
unavailable").

For obvious reason I didn't want to rebase the whole Cygwin
installation because that would break a lot of things...

Thorsten


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar  5 04:43:35 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 10:43:35 +0100
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> "Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
> news:du73c8ofx57.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi...
> > >>>>> "David" == David M Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> writes:
> >
> >     David> I would call it *pragmatically* implemented OOP.  It's not
> >     David> "proper" as some would see it.
> >
> > Elaborate?
> 
> As I understand it, there are a number of issues.
> 
> 1. Lack of method polymorphism

[...]

> 1 would be nice at times, but there's no way it's
> going to happen in a language that doesn't have
> static typing.

Sigh ...

* (defmethod foo ((x integer))
    (format t "~&~s is an integer" x))
#<Standard-Method FOO (INTEGER) {480054CD}>


* (defmethod foo ((x string))
    (format t "~&~s is a string" x))
#<Standard-Method FOO (STRING) {4800ABED}>


* (foo 2)
2 is an integer


* (foo "hello")
"hello" is a string


The ANSI standard for the _dynamically typed_ language shown above,
which implements the behaviour you claim will "never happen in a
language that doesn't have static typing", is about a decade old. (The
capability itself is at least another decade older.)


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 21:16:18 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:16:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040316021618.68672.qmail@web8302.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> >>Premshree Pillai wrote:
> >>>Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> >>>strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily
> bound
> >>>to a particular type.
> 
> [deletia]
> 
> > Secondly, you appear to be confusing C and C++
> with strongly typed
> > languages. A common mistake :-)
> 
> No I was just taking Premshree's lead where he says
> 'Like in C, C++, 
> etc, Python too is strongly typed'
> 
> > Python is strongly typed because:
> > 
> > - lots of type checking is done
> > - few implicit type conversions are done.
> > - No operations which are inappropriate to the
> object(s) in question
> >   are allowed.
> 
> Perhaps you should read the following where Guido
> van Rossum talks about 
> typing in Python. Here he is contrasting strongly
> typed languages with 
> Python.
> 
> "In a strongly typed language, when you change to a
> different data 
> structure, you will likely have to change the
> argument and return types 
> of many methods that just pass these things on. You
> may also have to 
> change the number of arguments, because suddenly you
> pass the 
> information as two or three parts instead of one. In
> Python, if you 
> change the type of something, most likely pieces of
> code that only pass 
> that something around and don't use it directly
> don't have to change at 
> all."
> 
> It would seem to be clear that what Guido considers
> to be strong typing 
> is not a feature of Python. As the following quote
> seems to indicate.
> 
> "Weak typing is not really a fair description of
> what's going on in 
> Python. It's really runtime typing because every
> object is labeled with 
> a type."
> 
> Here's the link
> http://www.artima.com/intv/strongweakP.html I would 
> recommend reading www.artima.com to anyone
> interested in programming.
> 
> So there we have it, Python is *NOT* strongly typed
> unless you know more 
> about Python than Guido van Rossum.
> 
> 1-0
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Python is strongly typed...

Consider this:

>>> foo = "x"
>>> foo = foo + 2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
    foo = foo + 2
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>>> 

The above returns a TypeError in Python, but not in
PHP, which is weakly typed.

Oh, well, you could accuse me of knowing more than
Guido :-)

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 06:15:00 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:15:00 +0100
Subject: Python / COM / Word
References: <mailman.224.1079947879.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5cf809e9.0403241936.5fe98316@posting.google.com>
	<8360efcd.0403250045.273b3e9b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fzbxch57.fsf@python.net>

tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden) writes:

> peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm) wrote in message news:<5cf809e9.0403241936.5fe98316 at posting.google.com>...
>> ....
>> > >>> w1 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
>> ....
>> 
>> "DispatchEx" is a solution I have long searched for. Thank you very
>> much!
>> 
>> And a question: where do you have the info about DispatchEx from? Does
>> there exist a documention for win32com? And if yes: where?
>
> Ah. I don't remember where I found out about it; either on this list
> or on the python-win32 mailing list, I expect. Such documentation as
> there is for win32com is:
>
> 1) The documentation that comes with the pywin32 extensions (in
> various forms)
> 2) In Mark Hammond & Andy Robinson's Python Programming on Win32 (or
> something like that)
> 3) On the python & python-win32 lists
> 4) On various people's websites

Reading the source is, of course, another possibility.

Thomas




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 19:45:43 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:45:43 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2j12505t4oaniqq7607t3pekulm0e979cu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:10:59 -0500, "Ellinghaus, Lance"
<lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote:

>> > Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()
>
>>Reload doesn't work the way most people think
>>it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
>>they stay around. They aren't replaced.
>
>>It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
>>doesn't do what the idea promises.
>
>I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
>would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()? 

Seems like reload() could be *made* to work by scanning currently
loaded modules for all references to objects in the reloaded module,
and resetting them to the new objects.  If an object is missing from
the new module, throw an exception.

GvR suggests using 'exec' as an alternative.
http://python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/6
I don't see how that solves the problem of eliminating references to
old objects.

-- Dave



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 15 13:43:07 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:43:07 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <105buddofc8mq04@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un at 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:49:58 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
> wrote:
>

>
> I'm having trouble understanding the benefit of using shared objects
> for simple numbers and strings.  Maybe you can save a significant
> amount of memory by having all the *system* modules share a common
> 'None' object, but when a user explicitly says 'M1.x = None', surely
> we can afford a few bytes to provide a special None for that
> reference.  The benefit is that when you change None to 'something' by
> editing and reloading M1, all references that were created via a
> reference to M1.x will change automatically.

I believe it's a performance optimization; the memory savings
are secondary.

> We should at least have a special 'debug' mode in which the hidden
> sharing of objects is disabled for selected modules. You can always
> explicitly share an object by simply referencing it, rather than
> typing in a fresh copy.

That would have rather disasterous concequences, since
some forms of comparison depend on there only being
one copy of the object.

>
> -- Dave
>




From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 10 06:47:55 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:47:55 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi> <104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <m365dcexec.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> schreef:
> 
> > - Note that item is bound to objects of completely different types
> >   (integer, string, list, hash-table and array, in this case) at
> >   different times. (This _does_ mean that it's dynamically typed.)
> 
> Yes, but 2 of the "method versions" use statically typed parameters.
> So it seems this is a language that gives you the choice between dynamic 
> and static typing.

No more than self is statically typed in 

class C:
  def meth(self):
    ...

!

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
    . <- the point                                your article -> .
    |------------------------- a long way ------------------------|
                                       -- Christophe Rhodes, ucam.chat


From jeder at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 29 02:54:46 2004
From: jeder at earthlink.net (Ryan Spencer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:54:46 GMT
Subject: Python installing on Debian
References: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.28.1080524612.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.29.07.54.52.345244@earthlink.net>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:43:25 +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote:

> It's a very bad idea to install self-compiled applications to the same
> prefix as the ones from original packages. this can breake many things on
> your computer. what you have now is a semi-broke python installation, and a
> package that tries to install itself every time you run apt-get but fails.
> 
> I think your best chance to "clean" things would be to uninstall every
> python2.3 package on your system (see what happenes when you run 'apt-get
> remove --purge python2.3'). but make sure you understand what you're doing
> (e.g. do you really want to purge your zope installaion? do you have
> important stuff there, do you know how to restore it?). then if there's
> still stuff in /usr/lib/python2.3 and /usr/local/lib/python2.3 check that
> they don't belong to any package (with dpkg -S filename) and remove them.
> also check if you have a python binary in /usr/local/bin and delete it.
> then re-install all the python2.3 packages. this of-course will make you
> lose all your self-compiled modules, so you'll have to re-compile them.
> this is a long and messy job, but you got yourself into this position. just
> make sure you understand what you're doing before your doing it.
> 
> in the future I would recommend using the source from unstable to build a
> package if you want a version newer then the one that exist in testing.
> also use 'stow' when you're compiling sources. this will let you uninstall
> self-compiled application easilly.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Thanks a lot,
> 
> good-luck (you'll need it) :(

It actually needn't be that messy. dpkg --purge'ing will only remove the
package in question, whereas using a program such as debfoster and pruning
the selected target package will remove all it's associate dependencies
entirely eradicating it from your system, maybe leaving behind empty
configuration folders in your home directory, but there's no fret for
that those won't be taking up barely any space and you can always remove
them later.

So, I'd say use debfoster and prune the python2.3 package. It won't be a
messy process at all. Just remember, when it prompts the package
python2.3, remember to push 'p' for prune, not 'n' for that 'n' (standing
for 'no') will do the same thing as dpkg --purge and simply remove the
package in question.

There is the beginning concern of when using debfoster it will inquire
about every single dpkg on your system (If I am correct, it should read
something alike the apt-cache which, even with manual installation of
dpkg's, still is written to, keeping a meticulous record of all dpkg's
on your system. If not the apt-cache, I know it's another file.) But once
you get past all the programs you want and don't want, it keeps the
remaining information in the /var/lib/debfoster/keepers file, which you
can always edit if you accidentilly kept something.

And also, I wouldn't say installing certain packages would break
much - although I wouldn't mark out the possibility of it happening in
unstable and testing, I sometimes forget constant recorrection I had to
go through. Possible replacement of certain library
files for applications, but that's also an issue of whether or not the
actual library file or application itself has issues, and that's a risk
you take in using unstable and testing. For example, I have an Nvidia
Geforce four and I would constantly have problems with glibc conflicting
with my video card. If you wander through the debian newsgroups you'll
notice many others have experienced the same problem, it's merely a
question of the glibc's lack of testing - which is why it's in the testing
phase of debian.

The underline is that testing and unstable are more for those that A)
Don't mind having sometimes broken packages in exchange for bleeding edge
software and B) Developers helping in the aid of testing out applications
and hopefully moving testing into it's 'stable' state if tested vigorously
enough.

Take Care,
~Ryan


From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Tue Mar 23 17:54:05 2004
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 14:54:05 -0800
Subject: python-mode in emacs under OSX
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0403231454.58f20703@posting.google.com>

When trying to debug some python code under emacs (OSX) with
python-mode, I get the following:

> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/pdb.py(992)set_trace()->None
-> Pdb().set_trace()
(Pdb) 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 148, in ?
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/pdb.py",
line 992, in set_trace
    Pdb().set_trace()
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/bdb.py",
line 52, in trace_dispatch
    return self.dispatch_return(frame, arg)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/bdb.py",
line 80, in dispatch_return
    if self.quitting: raise BdbQuit
bdb.BdbQuit

This does not happen with emacs/python-mode on other platforms; is
there something OSX-specific that needs tweaking? I'm hoping there is
a mac python developer out there who can help me with this.

Thanks,
cjf


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 16 15:22:36 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:22:36 +0100
Subject: tuples or lists
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403161208.78350dac@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403161208.78350dac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c37nmd$58r$00$2@news.t-online.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> Is "use tuples instead of lists, when possible" a good rule?

The party line is: "use lists for similar items, tuples for
different items". If you come from a C++ background, tuples
are mostly used what structs are used for, and lists are used
in the std::vector context.

Regards,
Martin



From xtian at toysinabag.com  Sat Mar 13 06:26:00 2004
From: xtian at toysinabag.com (xtian)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 03:26:00 -0800
Subject: Sorting Driving Crazy: URGENT: PLEASE HELP
References: <mailman.346.1079159911.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d111eafa.0403130326.3eb5b1b3@posting.google.com>

dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.346.1079159911.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> This is really driving me crazy.
> 
> I have a dictionary feature_vectors{}. I try to sort
> its keys using
> 
> #apply sorting on feature_vectors
> sorted_feature_vector=feature_vectors.keys()
> sorted_feature_vector.sort()
> 
> #feature_vector.keys()=sorted_feature_vector
> 
> new_feature_element={}
> new_feature_vector={}
> 
> for x in sorted_feature_vector:
>     print "SORTING\n"
>     print x, '\t',feature_vectors[x]
>     count=0
>     if(count==0):
>         new_feature_element=str(1)+"
> "+str(x)+":"+str(feature_vectors[x])+" "
>     else:
>        
> new_feature_element=str(x)+":"+str(feature_vectors[x])+"
> "
>         count=count+1
>        
> new_feature_vector=str(new_feature_vector)+str(new_feature_element)
>         new_feature_vector=new_feature_vector+"\n"
>     
> print "New Dictionary"
> 
> 
> When I print x and feature_vectors[x]  I get some of
> the entries which are not in the increasing order.
> 
> 22836 	7.46464646465
> SORTING
> 
> 22840 	2.19977553311
> SORTING
> 
> 22841 	2.69809203143
> SORTING
> 
> 22842 	0.617283950617
> SORTING
> 
> 22844 	4.61279461279
> SORTING
> 
> 22846 	93.1537598204
> SORTING
> 
> 2357 	0.00224466891134
> SORTING
> 
> 3105 	0.00224466891134
> SORTING
> 
> 3117 	0.00224466891134
> SORTING
> 
> 3675 	0.003367003367
> SORTING
> 
> 4280 	0.00224466891134
> SORTING
> 

The keys of your feature_vectors dictionary are strings - they have
been sorted lexicographically. The string "22846" is less than the
string "2357".

To check this, you can put:

print "Type of x is", type(x)

into your loop. It will be <type 'str'>, while you want <type 'int'>.

To convert feature_vectors into a dictionary with integer keys, use
this:

new_feature_vectors = {}
for key, value in feature_vectors:
    new_feature_vectors[int(key)] = value

Then new_feature_vectors.keys() should be able to be sorted to have
the order you want.

On a side note, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty getting a
program to do what you want - have you worked through the tutorial
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>? The interactive
prompt can be very useful to check that snippets of code do what you
think they do.

Cheers,
xtian


From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 22 06:39:12 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:39:12 +0000
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> Such reactions always astonish me, especially given the good guy I know
> I am! :-) In French (maybe in English too?) we say that we "put white
> gloves" when we get extremely cautious ...

The UK English phrase would be to "put on kid gloves" kid gloves being 
very soft and gentle type of leather (supposedly made from juveniles).


From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar  6 10:56:57 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:56:57 +0100
Subject: Download
Message-ID: <4049f4cb$0$3887$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

I want to direct requested downloads myself, so I can add counters, loggers
etc. in it.
After all the logging is done I want to start the requested download. I
tried many different versions of the code below and all I get is broken
downloads...

Does one of you know what I am doing wrong...?
(it is a CGI script)
(...snip...)
 fhandle = open(loc, 'r')
  file    = fhandle.read()
  fhandle.close()

  print('Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=%s' % data[1])
  #print('Content-type: application/force-download')
  print('Content-length: %s' % len(file))
  print('Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="%s"' % data[1])
  print
  print file
  #sys.stdout.write(file)
(...snip...)

-- 
Cheerz,

Ivo.
http://IvoNet.nl
"Life is like a nose.. You have to get out of it what's in it!"




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Mar 26 16:20:52 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:20:52 -0300
Subject: python & mysql probelm
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837DD@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

talktojamesblair wrote:

#- I am having a problem executing following query:
#- cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
#- and '%s'"%(id1,id2))
#- But say if i have projectid's from 1 to 20 in database & if 
#- i give the
#- project range 1 to 2 then it gives me the result 1,2,11,12,13,14.....
#- When I execute this query in mysql i.e
#- select * from projects where projectid between 1 and 2,I get the
#- correct result.
#- I also tried doing 
#- cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
#- and '%s'"%(int(id1),int(id2))
#- but no success
#- What should I do??

Try to execute *this* query in mysql:

select * from projects where projectid between '1' and '2';

*That* is what you really are executing through cursor.execute(...)

A very useful method I use to debug this kind of stuff is to print the
statement. Then I copy&paste that in mysql.

.	Facundo



From kp87 at lycos.com  Mon Mar 29 21:01:03 2004
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 18:01:03 -0800
Subject: histogram type thingy for (unique) dict items
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0403291801.51071ca2@posting.google.com>

hi. I've been banging my head against this one a while and have asked
around, and i
am throwing this one out there in the hopes that some one can shed
some light on
what has turned out to be a tough problem for me (though i am getting
closer).

i have been mucking with a lot of data in a dictionary that looks
like:

events = { (2, 1, 0) : [8, 3, 5, 4], 
     (2, 7, 0) : [4, 3, 2, 2], 
     (2, 14, 0) : [8, 3, 5, 4], 
     (2, 18, 0) : [10, 2, 8, 7], 
     (2, 20, 0) : [10, 0, 5, 7], 
     (2, 22, 0) : [10, 2, 8, 7], 
     (2, 24, 0) : [7, 9, 3, 8], 
     (2, 28, 0) : [10, 0, 5, 7], 
     (2, 29, 0) : [10, 11], 
     (2, 30, 0) : [8, 3, 5, 4], 
     (2, 32, 0) : [5, 0, 10, 7], 
     (2, 34, 0) : [8, 3, 7, 9], 
     (2, 36, 0) : [5, 4, 3, 1], 
     (2, 36, 1) : [5, 4, 3, 1, 7], # GNA
     (2, 37, 0) : [0, 8, 2, 4, 9, 10, 1], 
     (2, 37, 1) : [0, 8, 2, 4, 9, 10, 1, 6], # GNA
     (2, 39, 0) : [8, 10, 1, 9], 
     (2, 39, 1) : [8, 10, 1, 9, 7], # GNA
     (2, 41, 0) : [2, 0, 3, 1], 
     (2, 41, 1) : [2, 0, 3, 1, 6], # GNA
    # ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ page 3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     (3, 43, 0) : [3, 2, 4], 
     (3, 44, 0) : [0, 8, 2, 4, 9, 10, 1], 
     (3, 44, 1) : [0, 8, 2, 4, 9, 10, 1, 6] } # GNA

pages and pages of it, this is just a tiny slice...

The tuple (key) represents a point time (page, line, event) and the
lists are my values for
that time. It happens that there are many times that have the same
data values [that is,
the list items are the same]... what i want to do now is take each
_unique_ value
list (there are only 120 or so of them as my unique.py function
reports) and tell me where they occur so that, i would get a kind of
histogram with the values and a list of all the places this
item occurs. A further wrinkle (the one i am really stuck on) is that
i want just one sorted
value list and not several different entries for what is the same
input set in a different
order so that not all my time value pairs are accounted for properly.
Ideally all the
keys (locations/times) that fit the same values would be grouped
together
so that the input of:

foo = { (5, 138, 1) : [ 0, 2, 7 ], 
	(7, 264, 1) : [ 0, 2, 7 ], 
	(9, 367, 0) : [ 0, 2, 7 ], 
	(5, 156, 1) : [ 0, 7, 2 ], 
	(8, 315, 1) : [ 0, 7, 2 ], 
	(8, 317, 1) : [ 0, 7, 2 ] }

would give me the [unique sorted value](0, 2, 7)
with all the applicable locations.
(0, 2, 7) --> [(7, 264, 1), (5, 138, 1), (5, 156, 1),(8, 315, 1), (8,
317, 1), (9, 367, 0)]

instead i get some locations listed for sets:
    (0, 2, 7)
    (0, 7, 2)
    (2, 0, 7)
    (2, 7, 0)
    (7, 0, 2)

etc. though for my purposes these are the same and i want them all to
be together.

i know that if it was i list on input i can do this:

    # Now sort each individual set, but we don't want to have dupl.
elements either so we call unique here too
    for each_event2 in all_events2:
        ndupes = unique(each_event2)
        ndupes.sort()
        outlist.append(ndupes)
    # find only the unique sets
    unique_items = unique(outlist)
    unique_item_count = 1


but i am not sure how to handle this in the dictionary scenario, since
in this case i
am almost treating values as keys and vice versa, and need only unique
sorted item, so
that all the times that show up for

    (0, 2, 7)
    (0, 7, 2)
    (2, 0, 7)
    (2, 7, 0)
    (7, 0, 2) ...

are together and accounted for (ideally, id like to count the items
too)

I other words i want a sort of histogram of each unique event telling
me at what key
they happen and how many of each unique event there is.

i've searched http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Browse/Threaded/python-Tutor
and
the cookbook and i don't see anything, except stuff like
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/Recipe/52306
and a google turns up some crazy incomprehensible very advanced bells
and
whistles graphic things that just is a heck of a lot more than i can
wrap my pea sized
brain around and is just way more than i need.

So, if anyone has such a beast or wants to help me get started i would
be grateful.  As you can see my code is getting more an more tangled
up:


def histo(input):
    events = input.copy()
    all_events = events.values()[:]   # make new lists to be safe.
    outlist = []
    # Now sort each individual set, but we don't want to have
duplicate
    # elements either so we call unique here too
    for each_event in all_events:
        ndupes = unique(each_event)
        ndupes.sort()
        outlist.append(ndupes)
    # find only the unique sets
    unique_items = unique(outlist)
    unique_item_count = 1
    line_num = 1
    print '=' * 62, '\n  -+ ---------- +- sets & their locations', 
    print '... (', len(unique_items), ') events :\n', '-' * 62
    print "line#\tset\tLocations:"
    n = {}
    for key in events.keys():
        try:
            n[tuple(events[key])].append(key)
        except KeyError:
            n[tuple(events[key])] = [key]
    nsortkeys = n.keys()        # first make a copy of the keys
    nsortkeys.sort()            # now sort that copy in place
    foobar = n.keys()
    print foobar
    foo2 = unique(foobar)
    for xx in foo2:
        print 'xx = ', xx
    for key, value in n.items():
        print line_num,"\t", str(key), "\t", str(value)
        line_num = line_num + 1
####



cheers,
kevin


From list-python at ccraig.org  Mon Mar  8 14:54:11 2004
From: list-python at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 14:54:11 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t1wu10zp124.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1) writes:

> There is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to use GOTO in any modern
> language, ESPECIALLY Python, EVER!
> 
> No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this
> is.

If everyone took your advice, you would have no Python.  CPython (the
reference Python implementation) has over 200 gotos in its source.

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <list-python at ccraig.org>
"[Windows NT is] not about 'Where do you want to go today?'; it's more like
'Where am I allowed to go today?'" -- Mike Mitchell, NT Systems Administrator




From kylotan at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 15:22:38 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 12:22:38 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
	<87k71wi3lq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0403081222.6f0f8ec7@posting.google.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87k71wi3lq.fsf at pobox.com>...
> kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) writes:
> 
> > None of this makes testing any harder or less useful in catching bugs;
> > it just means that it ends up being an almost straight duplication of
> > my normal code, with the input handling stripped out! It hardly seems
> > worth the effort.
> 
> That's right: you write the test, you think "this test code is so
> trivial it hardly seems worth the effort".  Then you run them, and you
> think "OK, maybe it's not so trivial".  OK, most (but not all) of the
> bugs you find in that process are in the tests, not the code.  Just as
> important, though, it makes you think about what you're writing,
> reducing coupling.

I suppose that it would be a good tool in that sense, yes. I'm still
undecided as to whether it provides a significant benefit over an
extensive object-oriented background though.

> Then, later, you break your code, and the trivial,
> obvious, unit test saves a lot of time.  Then, later, if you
> reimplement your interface, and spend a good solid chunk of time
> rapidly fixing bug after bug after bug in the new implementation (each
> bug revealed by the tests), you'll wonder if it would even have been
> *possible* to reimplement it without the unit tests.

This is one thing that puzzles me. I don't write bug-free code - far
from it - but I can't say I remember any significant times when I
introduced code that broke earlier code. I follow the Firefox and
Thunderbird open source projects and often hear about 'regressions' in
the latest builds. This surprises me, as I just don't get this in my
own work. I suppose the main difference is that my projects are an
order of magnitude smaller and every line of code is written by
myself.

-- 
Ben Sizer


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar  2 14:06:36 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:06:36 -0500
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
In-Reply-To: <ptbvktt7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOECJJEAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Thomas Heller]
> [I'm currently reading python-list via the gmane nntp interface, I
> don't know whether there really is a gmane.comp.web.zope.devel
> newsgroup]

I don't know either, so I'll copy you directly.

[Tim]
>> ...
>> Here's a Python program to try:
>>
>> """
>> import sys
>> if 1:   # edit to 1 for stdout, 0 for stderr
>>     console = sys.stdout
>> else:
>>     console = sys.stderr
>>
>> import traceback
>> tb = file('tb.txt', 'w')
>>
>> try:
>>     i = 0
>>     while True:
>>         i += 1
>>         console.write('.')
>> except:
>>     print >> tb, "Died when trying to write byte", i
>>     traceback.print_exc(file=tb)
>>     tb.close()
>> """
>>
>> Under Win98SE, and regardless of whether it writes to stdout or
>> stderr, it dies when run under pythonw, and tb.txt contains this
>> after:
>>
>> Died when trying to write byte 4097
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "wr.py", line 14, in ?
>>     console.write('.')
>> IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

[Thomas]
> I get exactly the same, on Win XP Pro, both for sys.stdout and
> sys.stderr.

That's good to know!  Thanks.

> ...
> Since it seems XP shows the same behaviour than win98SE, has the
> behaviour of Python changed?  Were IOErrors ignored on sys.stdout or
> sys.stderr in earlier versions?

No, the same program fails the same way here under pythonw 2.2.3 and 2.1.3
(with s/file/open/ and s/True/1/).  The OP wasn't clear about what "it"
meant, though (in "it used to work").  I guess it's most likely he meant
running Zope 2.5 as a service used to work, not that running Zope 2.5 by
hand from a DOS box with pythonw used to work, but don't know.  It's
certainly possible that something relevant changed in Zope, and/or in how
Zope tries to live with Windows services.

> IIRC, /F first proposed that pythonw.exe should create a console to
> have a place to show tracebacks.  Sounds like a good idea to me.

Some way of having pythonw not drop output into the bit bucket has sounded
like a good idea to everyone for about a decade now <wink>.

ideas-ain't-code-ly y'rs  - tim




From DavidMLewis.NO at SPAM.mac.com  Sun Mar 14 07:26:39 2004
From: DavidMLewis.NO at SPAM.mac.com (David Lewis)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:26:39 GMT
Subject: List append help
References: <105811aq55rah53@corp.supernews.com> <40540841.8070802@zoran.com>
	<1058329gsgeq85f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <140320040426395478%DavidMLewis.NO@SPAM.mac.com>

In article <1058329gsgeq85f at corp.supernews.com>, Bill wrote:

> Thank you, This was really bugging me. To help me understand, do you know
> why the return value was None even though it was added to the list?

It?s a philosophical decision made throughout Python. When an operation
is destructive (i.e. it changes the object on which it operates rather
than returning a new, changed, object), it returns None to emphasize
the point.

Best,
   David


From essai1 at mci.local  Fri Mar 19 15:34:54 2004
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:34:54 +0100
Subject: converting string to dictionary
References: <f046efac.0403191215.3e3c72e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3flir$vm3$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

one (good or bad ? ) idea : use pickle...




From beefjerky at hornet.beefjerky.demon.nl  Tue Mar 16 14:43:24 2004
From: beefjerky at hornet.beefjerky.demon.nl (Jeroen Wenting)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:43:24 +0100
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
	<c340l1$23rse7$2@ID-203055.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <105em1a4mvb9tc3@corp.supernews.com>


"Philipp Lenssen" <info at outer-court.com> wrote in message
news:c340l1$23rse7$2 at ID-203055.news.uni-berlin.de...
> montezum wrote:
>
> > where can I find Paris Hilton video?
>
> Where you find everything. In Google.
>
Or easier: rent a videocamera, book a flight to Paris, take a cab to the
Hilton, shoot some video, take a cab to the airport, and fly back home.




From wweston at att.net  Sat Mar 20 15:48:41 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:48:41 GMT
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <J627c.60456$H44.1119714@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

John Slimick wrote:
> I want to do a little Tkinter in my 1 credit 
> python practicum, but I am having problems
> getting everything installed correctly.
> A sample of the problem is below:
> 
> 
> ------------------- The python source, test.py ------------------
> from graphics import *
> 
> def main():
>     win = GraphWin("My Circle", 100, 100)
>     c = Circle(Point(50,50), 10)
>     c.draw(win)
> 
> main()
> 
> ----------- result of $python test.py --------------------------
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 1, in ?
>     from graphics import *
>   File "/home/slimick/cs198/graphics.py", line 85, in ?
>     import Tkinter
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
>   ImportError: No module named _tkinter
> 
> ------------result of $locate _tkinter ------------------------------
> 
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp.exp
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Modules/_dummy_tkinter.c
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Modules/_tkinter.c
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PC/os2vacpp/_tkinter.def
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PCbuild/_tkinter.dsp
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I would appreciate any help on this.
> 
> And, thanks in advance
> 
> john slimick
> slimick at pitt,edu
> university of pittsburgh at bradford

john,
    try this(the correct) link:

http://www.talkaboutprogramming.com/group/comp.lang.python/messages/290343.html
wes



From devnull at example.com  Wed Mar 31 21:03:38 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:03:38 +0800
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<OuAac.7999$He5.159271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <406b7823$0$16590$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

wes weston wrote:

> Derek Fountain wrote:
>> I'm coming to Tkinter from Tcl/Tk. In Tcl I can get a variable in an
>> event using the %<X> substitution mechanism. For example, I can set up a
>> command like:
>> 
>>  entry .e -validate 1 -vcmd "checkkey %d"
>> 
>> knowing that the '%d' will be replaced by something useful - whether the
>> entry widget has recieved an insert or deletion in this case. The
>> checkkey procedure will recieve "insert", "delete" or whatever as its
>> first parameter.
>> 
>> What is the Tkinter way of getting that %d value?
> 
> Derek,
> f = Entry()
> ...
> v = StringVar()
> v.set("test")
> f["textvariable"] = v
> 
> print v.get()

Thanks, but that's not what I was after! I want to know the type of action
I've received - the %d binding for the validatecommand.


From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 22 19:19:25 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 19:19:25 -0500
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m23c80pg8i.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On 22 Mar 2004 15:37:27 -0800,
Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> 10) ... well you get the idea.

> Which, if any, would you write in Python? ... Note that these
> are all supposed to be used in production and not just as
> technology demos, so speed matters ...

With the "speed counts" caveat, that's a bit of a trick question,
trivially answered with None Of The Above (okay, so maybe most
bankers (application 8) are in less of a hurry than most user
processes (application 7)).

With sufficiently powerful hardware and sufficiently patient
clients, I'd take Python over C for any of those projects except:

    Life/death applications, like 4, and maybe 5, and maybe 7
    (depends on who's using the OS and for what).  Python is not
    well-specified enough (too many things depend on the
    underlying C library) for this type of application.

    Hardware-oriented applications, like maybe parts of 4 and 5
    (depending on what the interfaces to the hardware look like),
    and the low-level pieces of 7.

Specifically, I can't think of a single advantage C has over
Python (except speed and footprint) for applications 1, 2, 3, 5,
6, 8, and 9.

What advantages *do* C and Java have for such large projects?  How
many bug-free, meets-the-full-spec, on-time, under-budget examples
of applications written in those languages do we have?

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 00:44:55 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:44:55 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<mailman.112.1080651548.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lmmk60d5la7u3i7c4k5fnhu37b1s33inlg@4ax.com>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:58:44 +0200, Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org>
wrote:

>Mark Hahn wrote:
>> But everything in Prothon is subject to change until > 7/04.
>
>Is that April the 7th or July the 4th?

You didn't spot the little clue? As in _why_ the 4th of July?

:-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From gregc at cgl.ucsf.edu  Wed Mar 17 18:24:59 2004
From: gregc at cgl.ucsf.edu (Greg Couch)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 23:24:59 GMT
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3amob$fip7$2@cgl.ucsf.edu>

Just wanted to put a plug for our Python-controlled molecular viewer,
see http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/.  We use Togl and Tkinter and
while I'm annoyed that my patches to Togl were never accepted, I use
them and they're on sourceforge.  There are chimera distributions for
x86-Windows, x86-linux/X11, OS X/X11, OS X/Aqua, Irix/X11, and
Tru64/X11.  We've gone to bundling everything up into one
self-extracting zip file (a disk image for OS X) to avoid the hassle of
having the user install the 20 different packages that we depend on.
Chimera is only 90% open source at this time but for anybody who will
really do something with the source, we'll open up the rest (except for
the MSMS package from Scripps that we have no control over).

	Good luck,

	Greg Couch
	UCSF Computer Graphics Lab
	gregc at cgl dot ucsf dot edu


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar 25 11:07:27 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:07:27 -0800
Subject: Mod_python
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F55@opus.amorhq.net>

Amy G wrote:
> I got this working by adding the following to my environment
> 
> LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libc_r.so
> export LD_PRELOAD
> 
> 
> So I can now restart apache and everything seems to work.  
> Except my python
> files still show up as text in the browser window.
> 
> Help, please.
> 
> "Amy G" <amy-g-art at cox.net> wrote in message
> news:qDp8c.41418$Bg.9880 at fed1read03...
> > I posted yesterday asking about python cgi and how to implement it.
> >
> > In a reply I was advised to use mod_python instead.
> >
> > I am using Apache 1.3.7.
> >
> > I downloaded both mod_pyton-2.7.10 and 2.7.9.
> >
> > I configured and ran make mso, make install on both with 
> the same result.
> >
> > After adding the required lines to my httpd.conf and 
> restarting apache I
> get
> > the following error.
> >
> > Syntax error on line 237 of /usr/local/etc/apache/httpd.conf:
> > Cannot load /usr/local/libexec/apache/mod_python.so into server:
> > /usr/local/libexec/apache/mod_python.so: Undefined symbol 
> "pthread_create"
> >
> > Thanks for any help.

What browser are you using? Seriously, I had an issue once where IE
would show the correct page but Mozilla would show source code, in which
case it was probably a MIME-type issue. You might need to tell Apache to
handle .py as text/html with a directive like (untested):

<Files ~ "\.py$">
    ForceType text/html
</Files>


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From brian at sweetapp.com  Sat Mar 27 17:10:07 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:10:07 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <0r0hj1-824.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>

>    - Connections are accepted over SSL

I don't know how much work it would take to make this happen.

>    - Callbacks to verify incoming connections, certificates and
>      credentials of the connections
>    - Verification of HTTP authentication information

You don't need a callback to do this, just subclass
SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler, override do_POST, and do authentication before
calling the base implementation.

>    - Connections are kept open/keep-alive (HTTP/1.1)

This is a one line patch. Feel free to submit it.

>    - Use of a bounded thread pool that handles the connections

This is too tied to your implementation requirements. If you want something
like this then you should add a PooledThreadingTCPServer class to
SocketServer.py and then trivially subclass that in SimpleXMLRPCServer.py
as:

class PooledThreadingXMLRPCServer(
                         SocketServer.PooledThreadingTCPServer,
                         SimpleXMLRPCDispatcher)

Cheers,
Brian




From guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz  Wed Mar 24 19:58:14 2004
From: guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz (Guy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:58:14 +1200
Subject: monitoring a directory
Message-ID: <c3tar3$3cf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

Hello,

What would be the most efficient or 'clever' way to monitor a directory 
for file additions/ modifications on windows?

Currently I'm looping through the directory with a 1 sec delay. But 
doesn't seem that clever.

Guy


From video at esfera.cl  Fri Mar 19 23:36:38 2004
From: video at esfera.cl (Cristian Hasbun from Chile)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 20:36:38 -0800
Subject: win32com coclass_interfaces problem
References: <d4948d36.0403180802.10d29268@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d4948d36.0403192036.4ae1aeec@posting.google.com>

Still in the darkness


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar  8 23:11:16 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:11:16 -0800
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.80.1078616454.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>	<mailman.46.1078541818.19534.python-list@python.org>	<c2d741$m3t$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.80.1078616454.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2jgag$68n$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> That, and I suspect that reading strings in chunks, rather than 1 byte at a
> time, would be much faster also.

Yes and no.  string.find(character) is fast.

seq = [read_chars.find(i) for i in break_characters]
min(filter(lambda inp:inp>-1, seq)+[-1])

May not be quite so fast for large numbers of break characters.
  - Josiah


From python at rcn.com  Fri Mar 19 04:05:12 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 01:05:12 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>

[Paul Rubin] 
> This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
> the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
> are appreciated.

I offer this as an alternative:


from random import Random
from struct import unpack
import md5

class MD5Random(Random):
    def newrandom(self,    tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53):
        plaintxt = str(Random.random(self))
        ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()
        randint = unpack('<Q', ciphertxt[:8])[0] >> 11  # grab 53 bits
        return randint * tofloat


Advantages over the original:

* Much faster

* Much shorter code

* More readable code

* Threadsafe

* Takes advantage of MT's proven equidistribution, of its passing
known tests for randomness, and of its known period (in contrast,
SHA-1 was designed as a digest that makes it computationally
intractable to find a different message giving the same signature --
that does *not* imply the non-existence of short cycles for some
keys).

* It uses both MD5 and the Mersenne Twister as they were designed (in
contrast, my google searches show *no* research on using SHA-1 in OFB
and reapplying SHA-1 again to conceal the output).


Raymond Hettinger


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:37:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:37:33 -0500
Subject: Start and control an extern program
In-Reply-To: <kpfzc9dtpu.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<4051087D.1050409@zoran.com>
	<kp4qsr5x1i.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<c3516l$6i9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<kpfzc9dtpu.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <fP-dnYA7-_IR-MrdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Axel Koehler wrote:

> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
>>threading.Timer
>>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/timer-objects.html
> 
> Thank you for the hint, 
> 
> but this needs threads, is this really portabel in all versions  of 
> python under linux?

It wouldn't be portable to versions of Python that don't have threads, 
one would suppose.

Have you encountered such?  Frequently?

-Peter


From no at spam.invalid  Mon Mar  8 18:20:31 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:20:31 -0800
Subject: Getting definition list
References: <20040306071202.18241.00000981@mb-m06.aol.com>
	<c2cjf3$8bf$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <c2iv41$k94$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <c2cjf3$8bf$1 at news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
 "vincent wehren" <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:

>"Bluexcell" <bluexcell at aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:20040306071202.18241.00000981 at mb-m06.aol.com...
>| ok so i  use import to import a py file into my script.
>|
>| is there a way to list all the defined function labels that exist in the
>| imported file?
>|
>| ie if  i import a file called test and test has defined functions  called
>| myfunction1 my function2  myfunction3 etc    but i dont know  them,  is
>there a
>| method to list all the function labels in test and print them  as a
>listing
>|
>| test.mfunction1
>| test.myfunction2
>| test.myfunction3
>|
>| etc.
>
>Roughly (untested) something like the following should get you started:
>
>import some_module
>import types
>d = some_module.__dict__
>for k in d:
>    obj = d[k]
>    if type(obj) == types.FunctionType:
>        print "some_module.%s" % k

Or if you care about callable objects (i.e. anything that acts like 
functions) then replace the type(obj) test with "if callable(obj):".

-- Russell


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Wed Mar 31 16:24:35 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 13:24:35 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0403311324.32837704@posting.google.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> In article <69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
> > # Library pseudocode
> > 
> > _fooRegistry = []
> > 
> > obj _Foo: # prototype object
> >     # Foo's code goes here
> > 
> > def Foo(): # constructor function
> >     newFoo = _Foo.copy()
> >     _fooRegistry.append(newFoo)
> >     return newFoo
> > 
> > 
> > Dirt simple with not an ounce of class metaprogramming in sight.
> 
> Is Foo() the standard syntax for making a new _Foo object?  If this is a
> new wrapper you just created, then it's no different than adding a
> register() method - the user has to know that something different is
> being done.
> 
> If Foo() is the standard syntax, and you're just overriding the
> implementation here, does that get inherited?  If so, this missed the
> condition that only some of the descendants should get added to the
> registry.  If not - well, inheriting the constructor seems like the more
> useful behaviour in general, so why not?

Don't think you've quite got the point of prototype-based OO yet.
There's no real 'standard syntax' for making objects; nor is there any
inheritance, classes, metaclasses, or instances. To create a new
object from scratch, execute the code that defines it. Alternatively,
duplicate an existing object.

Think of prototype-based languages as taking the more traditional,
two-tier class-based OO system and lopping off the entire upper tier.
The result is a much simpler, more direct, less formal and more
flexible approach to OO programming. If you're used to class-based
programming you may find the lack of predefined rules and formal
convention and ceremony a bit offputting. I expect Java programmers
feel the same when they first encounter Python's type system. Devise
rules to suit yourself, abstract away as little or as much as you
like. Can be quite refreshing getting right down to basics like this,
even if it's a little scary at first. :)


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Mar  2 01:24:04 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 22:24:04 -0800
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c@posting.google.com>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e at posting.google.com>...
> Thinking a bit more, the issue is not about the scope rules, it is about
> how the "for" loop is interpreted. Currently
> 
> for i in iterable:
>     <do_something i>
> 
> is interpreted as
> 
> try:
>     it=iter(iterable)
>     while True:
>         i=it.next()
>         <do_something i>
> except StopIteration:
>     pass
> 
> The issue would disappear if the "for" loop included an hidden function
> call and was interpreted as follows:
> 
> try:   
>     it=iter(iterable)
>     def helper(i):
>         <do_something i>
>     while True:
>         helper(it.next())
> except StopIteration:
>     pass
> 
> For instance, in the example I am talking about,
> 
> def make_adders(n):
>     return [lambda x: x+i for i in range(n)]
> 
> would be interpreted as
> 
> def make_adders(n):
>     try:
>         adders=[]
>         it=iter(range(2))
>         def helper(i):
>             adders.append(lambda x: x+i)
>         while True:
>             helper(it.next())
>     except StopIteration:
>         return adders
> 
> Essentially, the "i" variable would be passed via the helper function
> call and at each iteration the lambda function would see a different
> value of it.
> 
> I am proposing nothing here, just asking if it would make sense to
> have a looping construct acting this way (my guess is that this
> has already been proposed and discussed). This would have
> the added benefit of avoiding a non-local loop variable (i.e. a
> loop variable which exists even outside the loop) which is the
> actual unfortunate behavior.
> 
>        Michele Simionato

Just to add another data point, I asked on comp.lang.functional and 
discovered that Haskell list comprehension works as I would expect,
i.e. differently from Python:

Prelude> let make-adders n = [ \x -> x + i | i <- [0..n-1] ]
Prelude> let [add0,add1] = make_adders 2
Prelude> add0 0
0
Prelude> add1 0
1

So, it looks like as if Haskell implements the idea I exposed.
Still, it is to be discussed if the idea makes sense in Python.

1. Assuming all "for" loops and list comprehensions are replaced
   with Haskell bindings rules, what about backward compatibility
   problems? For instance: is there enough code relying on the loop 
   variable being available outside the loop?

2. If, due to compatibility issues, it is not possible to change the
   binding rules of existing loops, would it make sense to propose
   these binding rules for Python 2.4 generator comprehension?
   This would not be backward incompatible, but would it generate
   confusion?

3. Assuming the rules can be changed without real trouble, is the feature
   worth enough? Do people care about it, and is there somebody willing
   to take the job? 


     Michele Simionato


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 21 19:56:26 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:56:26 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
	<105oe5k5ovugi5e@news.supernews.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403211425.15ca2d4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105segm20tlejd3@news.supernews.com>


"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ef9bea6.0403211425.15ca2d4d at posting.google.com...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:<mailman.179.1079764920.742.python-list at python.org>...
> >
> > In Python, that is a meaningless term to me.
> > ...
> > Python is neither C++ nor Java.  It's data model is quite different.
> > Imported jargon is meaningless to those not familiear with is.  Adding
the
> > word 'static' to 'class attribute' or 'class variable' adds nothing
since
> > there is no differentiation from a hypothetical 'non-static' class
> > attribute.
> >
> ---------------
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:<105oe5k5ovugi5e at news.supernews.com>...
> >
> > So what? This is Python, not C++, Java or any other language.
> > ...
> > Static generally means "something that does not change." The fact
> > that C++ in particular abuses the word has no relevance.
> ---------------
>
> No relevance, huh?
>
> (a) What is in the Python Programming FAQ, then?
>
>
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming.html#how-do-i-create-static-class-data-and-static-class-methods
>
> Are you saying that this is a C++ Programming FAQ?
>
> (b) Search in Python mailing list for keywords "static variable"
> (quoted as single keyword) and "meaningless". There are exactly two
> entries, by authors John Roth and Terry Reedy. The fact is,
> historically speaking, so far there have been only two person in the
> Python community that have claimed "static variables" are meaningless
> in Python. Search again with "class static" as single (quoted)
> keyword, and you see plenty of people in the Python community talking
> about class-static issues, and none of them ever said that it is
> meaningless.
>
> So, how come all other people can discuss about class-static issues
> without problem, and only you two have to jump out with semantic
> issues and say it is meaningless?
>
> I don't understand. What is so special about you two? Are you guys the
> Real Academia de la Lengua Pythonica or something like that? :)

Rudeness objection.

According to the dictionary, which I looked up on dictionary.com,
the word static means unchanging. There is no such thing in
Python as something that cannot change.

You too can look up the actual dictionary definition of a word.

John Roth

>
> Hung Jung




From allena29 at elsol.zwan  Wed Mar 10 18:22:22 2004
From: allena29 at elsol.zwan (allena29 at elsol.zwan)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:22:22 +0000
Subject: Source compile newbie: trying to build Ming (Flash) libs
References: <3d06fae9.0403092200.47027a27@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.10.23.22.22.720708@elsol.zwan>

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:00:02 -0800, jmdeschamps wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have installed the GCC minGW compiler, and got ming03-beta1. On window
> XP
> 
> so I try the Ming How-to Install for python and get the following ...
> C:\ming>mingw32-make static
> process_begin: CreateProcess((null), uname -s, ...) failed. make -C src
> static

Is it complaining that it can't do "uname -s"

I wouldn't expect uname to work on XP (however have no experience of XP
for compiling).

uname -s on *nix returns the name of the Kernel (i.e. Linux in many cases).


Adam


From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Fri Mar 12 00:08:06 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:08:06 +1100
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40507a4e$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
	<pev0505hq2uomt2882uvs6ccbfp212hd6q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <405145B6.2090504@yahoo.com.au>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:

>>>because neither in mathematics people agree on the order:
>>>a?b(x) == a(b(x)) or
>>>a?b(x) == b(a(x)) ?
>>
>>Is this a joke or what?
>>
>>In mathematics people DO agree on the order:
>>
>>if a:B->A and b:X->B, then a?b:X->A and
>>(a?b)(x)=a(b(x))
> 
> No they DON'T. Both notations are used. The notation (using
> concatenation instead of circle to denote composition)
> 
> ba: x -> a(b(x)) 
> 
> is called diagrammatic order, and to be totally consistent we should
> really write
> 
> x -> (x b) a
> 
> and is more often used in Category Theory (and close relatives like
> Homological Algebra, etc. ) where you deal more with commutative
> diagrams and the like and functions being applied to arguments appear
> only very rarely.

Composition of cummutative diagrams is hardly likely to 
be confused with compositions of functions, so I don't 
think this argument is relevent.

It has been my experience that no matter how well-known 
a notation is, there is some field of mathematics that 
will either use the same notation for something 
different, or use completely different notation for the 
same task.

No doubt that there is some obscure field somewhere 
where the expression "1 + 1 = 2" means something other 
than the obvious :-)

Even so, in "ordinary" mathematics, composition a?b(x) 
generally means a(b(x)). Even if it didn't, we are free 
  to pick whatever notation we want, just as we did 
when we choose to use "+" as an infix operator rather 
than either prefix "+ a b" or postfix "a b +".

Needless to say, all three notations are in use, but 
Python only recognises one. This is not a problem.

While a composition operator would be cute, I don't 
think it would be useful enough to justify using a 
non-ASCII operator. Other than saving one character per 
  pair of functions, what else is it good for?


-- 
Steven D'Aprano



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Mar  2 10:22:41 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:22:41 +0100
Subject: Minimal distro requirements for standalone python program....
References: <c20j3u$2qk7$1@cti15.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <c228s2$okd$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

jeuxal_com wrote:
> Context: I want to add some python capabilities to my application,
> but not force the user to install the full python distro.
> Questions:
>     1- Are these files sufficient? (Too simple to be true!)

As python can now inport from .zip, you could add the python files as a
.zip:
- run compileall.py on <pythondir>/Lib to generate .pyc
- pack all the files into python23.zip
- if you install python23.zip into the same directory as the .exe, then I
think the file will already be added to sys.path

Hints:
- specify a nonsense directory to the -d option of compileall.py. Otherwise,
any backtraces will contain plausible filenames that do not exists on that
machine
- adding the .py files is optional
- python will not import .pyd from the .zip file

>     2- Is their some registry/path entries do perform to setup a
> minimal python runtime?

No, python will search for the files relative to the executable.

Daniel





From ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com  Sat Mar 27 08:26:45 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:26:45 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <pif9c.10786$TY1.9017@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Fred Ma" <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:40652B0D.7C313F77 at doe.carleton.ca...
<snip>
> One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
> files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
> hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
> to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
> The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
> have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.

If you eventually find yourself in the Python realm, please look into the
pyparsing text parsing module, more information at
http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net/.  I have implemented an easily-extended
99% Verilog parser using this module, and it may provide some shortcuts for
you in dealing with your HDL files.

-- Paul McGuire




From http  Sun Mar 21 15:15:44 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 12:15:44 -0800
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
References: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>
	<405c772e$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<c3i635$lg5$1@plaza.suomi.net>
	<405d9161$0$63621$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <7xu10ij6rz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Burton <john.burton at jbmail.com> writes:
> Ok, I'm now using sudo to launch the application which just opens the
> listening sockets and then calls os.setuid to set the uid back to an
> unprivilaged account.

That's how Apache does it too, more or less.  Another method under
Linux is have a separate process that opens the low ports, and use an
AF_UNIX socket to pass the low ports back to your application through
ancillary messages.  That requires a patch to the socket module, which
I'll see about coding up.  I currently have a Sourceforge bug
(#815869) open for it.


From bogus at bogus.net  Tue Mar  9 03:31:47 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:31:47 GMT
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
	<1qj1c.29893$qo.16145@fe1.texas.rr.com>
	<3b091a1c.0403080738.12a457bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Thf3c.61562$lS1.5579@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"cmkl" <cmkleffner at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3b091a1c.0403080738.12a457bd at posting.google.com...
> Paul,
>
> do you have a jython compatible pyparsing version?.
> I tried to modifiy pyparsing for jython-2.2a0 without
> success (jython still doesnt support newstyle classes)
>
> Regards
>
> Carl
>
>
> "Paul McGuire" <bogus at bogus.net> wrote in message
news:<1qj1c.29893$qo.16145 at fe1.texas.rr.com>...
> >
> > pyparsing also comes with an expression parser and evaluator in its
> > examples.  With some creative merging of the two, I think you could in
> > fairly short order have a config parser that would handle your Na = K+2
and
> > res_file = "$result_dir..." config values.
> >
> > The pyparsing home page is at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.
> >
> > HTH,
> > -- Paul
Carl -

I wrote a converter (using pyparsing) to replace all of the super() calls to
explicit superclass calls, and remove the inheritance from object.  Now I
get strange TypeError exceptions like this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pyparsingForJython.py", line 1276, in ?
    test( "SELECT * from XYZZY, ABC" )
  File "pyparsingForJython.py", line 1250, in test
    tokens = simpleSQL.parseString( teststring )
  File "pyparsingForJython.py", line 313, in parseString
    loc, tokens = self.parse( instring.expandtabs(), 0 )
  File "pyparsingForJython.py", line 278, in parse
    loc,tokens = self.parseImpl( instring, loc, doActions )
  File "pyparsingForJython.py", line 758, in parseImpl
    resultlist += exprtokens
TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

So this is mystifying to me - in this particular case, resultlist and
exprtokens are both ParseResults objects, and there is a defined __iadd__
method - is operator overloading also part of newstyle classes?  Also, I
suspect we would need to remove the scanString() method, since this uses
generators, and I would guess Jython doesn't support those, either.

Overall, I am not optimistic at the chances of getting pyparsing working
with Jython... :(

-- Paul




From eric at zomething.com  Thu Mar  4 21:32:35 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:32:35 -0800
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
Message-ID: <20040304183235.1669870280.eric@zomething.com>

Maru wrote:
 
>> What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL
>> to develop a database driven intranet? Do I need to 
>> use any framework or application server? 
>> If I do please kindly direct me where to go. 

to connect Python to MySQL, MySQLdb or an equivalent Python DB API-2.0 interface. 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python

Anyone care to share some hacks in this space?



From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Tue Mar 23 17:27:23 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:27:23 GMT
Subject: win32 COM
References: <h628c.4838$HP.2305@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fR28c.5843$fg3.3477@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:37:17 GMT, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Are there any good win32 COM tutorials that any of you have heard of??
>

Python Win32 Programming by Hammond and Robinson has a decent tutorial that
will get you into most of the binds you need.

For more detail you need to get more specific.  If you're doing very
much win32 programming an MSDN subscription is probably a good idea,
imo, as it saves MANY brain cells.  Unless your time is worthless . . . 




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 31 03:56:58 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:56:58 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c4cd7p$lcb$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4c3uk$646$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4cd7p$lcb$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4e121$q9$1@swifty.westend.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> I was watching system performance simultaneously and noticed a
>> decrease of free RAM memory by ~ 10 MB on starting and the same
>> increase on stopping. But the dlls - once loaded - apparently
>> are kept in RAM.
> 
> That is what Windows does.  Using an oft used cliche in a different 
> realm that always made me laugh, "Don't hate the player, hate the game". 
>  In this case, the player is wxPython, the game is 'running on Windows'.

After stopping the wxpython app Windows reports its memory share as
free, i.e. usable for other applications. If the same application
is reloaded and its binary stuff is not yet overwritten it is reused.
That's a good thing IMO, not a flaw. It would be nice though to
configure this behaviour, e.g. for testing. Perhaps there's a
registry spell in one of the numerous guru books for Win* but my
interest doesn't go this far.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From amk at amk.ca  Tue Mar  9 10:12:55 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:12:55 -0600
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
References: <mailman.129.1078774110.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Z-qdnemruplqQ9DdRVn-hA@speakeasy.net>

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:27:29 -0500, 
	Maru, Mulugeta <mmaru at visiontv.ca> wrote:

> I have not done a web development yet and would like to know the best way
> to go about doing it. What is xml-rpc? Sorry I am green on this subject.
> Someone suggested to use webware. I am hoping to buy or get an online
> tutorial material on Python/MySQL web development.

You could look for Steve Holden's book on Python web programming.

Also, Dave Kuhlman has a nice Quixote tutorial; see
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/quixote_appgetgo.html .  Section 7.1 has an
example of using the PostgreSQL database under Quixote; adapting it to MySQL
shouldn't be difficult.  Most relational databases support a standard
interface under Python; see http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/DB-API.html for
a (slightly elderly) tutorial on it.

In my opinion XML-RPC, while useful, would be pretty confusing if you're 
new to web applications; I wouldn't worry about it for now.

--amk


From opengeometry at linux.ca  Sun Mar 28 19:29:40 2004
From: opengeometry at linux.ca (William Park)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 00:29:40 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c47qli$2e3dp5$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:
> They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one
> would be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people using spaces
> if they like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able to use tabs if I
> like. I can't see how it should make any difference to Python which
> you use so why not allow for personal preference?
> 
> >I'll just mention that there are ***very good***, that is
> >***extremely good*** reasons why the Python standard is to use spaces
> >for indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be removed in
> >3.0.

This space-vs-tab war is just insane.  I wish Prothon/Python would use
block terminator, if only to kill this silly trollings.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From kbk at shore.net  Sat Mar 20 01:28:40 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:28:40 GMT
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

Patrick Useldinger <p at trick.lu> writes:

> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.

I run OpenBSD and am more than happy with it.  It's the most secure of
the BSDs and is a very clean implementation.  You will find that
staying current with OpenBSD is more work than with Debian, because
they put out new releases every six months like clockwork.  The whole
base system comes in one piece (with optional compilers and X) and is
guaranteed to work well as an integrated unit.

Threads are fine.  I haven't tried Twisted.

Python is available as a package (binaries) and can also be built in
the ports tree (source from the OpenBSD CVS).  OpenBSD is unique among
the BSDs because when you build a port it creates a package, which is
then installed and entered into the package database.  That way you
have full information on what is installed on your system.

However, they do patch Python slightly by adding Modules/setup.local
to get around a non-standard naming of the tcl/tk libraries.

I've made a patch for Python which fixes this.  It works on OpenBSD
and should work on FreeBSD, but I haven't confirmed that. 

If you want to track the current Python CVS, ports won't work for you.
Just check out a copy of Python CVS, apply

www.python.org/sf/850977

and you should be able to build Python without a problem using the
tcl and tk packages from OpenBSD.

-- 
KBK


From cliechti at gmx.net  Mon Mar  8 16:03:02 2004
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:03:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: py2exe - omitting DLLs (not Python extensions!) from the
	distribution
References: <1xo3yt01.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns94A6E04CFCC15cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>

Paul Moore <pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:1xo3yt01.fsf at yahoo.co.uk:

> I am wrapping it up into an EXE using py2exe - the result is very
> nice, and easy to distribute. However, the dependency tracking picks
> up OCI.dll as a dependency of cx_Oracle. Now, OCI.dll is actually an
> Oracle-supplied DLL, part of the Oracle client. I definitely *don't*
> want to include this in my built distribution, as it depends on the
> version of the Oracle client installed, and this may differ between
> the build machine and the target machine.
> 
> I've tried the --exclude option, but this doesn't work (probably as
> OCI.dll isn't a Python module).

see the flowing link for a way to pass options to py2exe 0.5:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/PassingOptionsToPy2Exe

then add an option
    	"dll_excludes" = ["OCI.dll"],

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Mar 20 16:44:14 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:44:14 GMT
Subject: Is there a map or graph module?
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OW27c.114475$Up2.73390@pd7tw1no>

"""
Hopefully some of the following will help you. The idea is to implement weighted
digraphs as dictionaries: the keys are edges and the values are weights. If
direction is not important in a particular graph, you can 'bidirectionalize' it
(see below). If weights are not important, just ignore them. Since the only
important property of a vertex is its name, the sensible thing is to build
graphs whose vertices are self-referring strings: a function is provided that
declares any number of such vertices at the same time. Another function returns
all the edges of the cyclic digraph with specified vertices. The exercises at
the bottom are from Discrete Mathematics and its Applications by Kenneth Rosen.
"""

def declareVertices(strg):
    from string import split
    for name in split(strg,','):
        globals()[name]=name

cycleEdges = lambda *X: [(X[i],X[(i+1)%len(X)]) for i in range(len(X))]

def bidirectionalize(graph):
    converse = dict([((b,a),graph[a,b]) for (a,b) in graph.keys()])
    graph.update(converse)

def vertexSet(graph):
    A=[a for (a,b) in graph.keys()]
    B=[b for (a,b) in graph.keys()]
    X=A+B
    return [X[i] for i in range(len(X)) if X[i] not in X[0:i]]

def neighbors(a,graph):
    leftNeighbors=[b for b in vertexSet(graph) if (b,a) in graph.keys()]
    rightNeighbors=[b for b in vertexSet(graph) if (a,b) in graph.keys()]
    X=leftNeighbors+rightNeighbors
    return [X[i] for i in range(len(X)) if X[i] not in X[0:i]]

def dijkstra(origin,graph):
    infinity = sum(graph.values())+1
    reVal =  {origin:0}
    A = lambda y: [x for x in reVal.keys() if (x,y) in graph.keys()]
    B = lambda y: (A(y) and min([reVal[x]+graph[x,y] for x in A(y)])) \
                    or infinity
    while [y for y in vertexSet(graph) if y not in reVal.keys()]:
        C = [(y,B(y)) for y in vertexSet(graph) if y not in reVal.keys()]
        m = min([pair[1] for pair in C])
        reVal.update(dict([(y,z) for (y,z) in C if z==m]))
    return reVal

def kruskal(graph):
    forest=[[x] for x in vertexSet(graph)]
    freeEdges=graph.keys()
    takenEdges=[]
    while len(forest)>1:
        minWeight=min([graph[edge] for edge in freeEdges])
        A = lambda edge: graph[edge]==minWeight
        B = lambda edge: [x for x in forest if edge[0] in x or edge[1] in x]
        edge=filter((lambda edge: A(edge) and len(B(edge))==2),freeEdges)[0]
        freeEdges.remove(edge)
        takenEdges.append(edge)
        newTree=B(edge)[0]+B(edge)[1]
        forest=[x for x in forest if x not in B(edge)]
        forest.append(newTree)
    return takenEdges

####################################################
####################################################

"""
#################################
## Rosen; Section 7.6; Exercise 4
#################################

declareVertices('a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z')

graph = {                                          \
    (a,b):2, (a,c):4, (a,d):1, (b,c):3, (b,e):1,   \
    (c,e):2, (c,f):2, (d,f):5, (d,g):4, (e,h):3,   \
    (f,g):3, (f,h):3, (f,i):2, (f,j):4, (g,k):2,   \
    (h,l):1, (h,o):8, (i,j):3, (i,l):3, (i,m):2,   \
    (j,k):6, (j,m):6, (j,n):3, (k,n):4, (k,r):2,   \
    (l,m):3, (l,o):6, (m,n):5, (m,o):4, (m,p):2,   \
    (n,q):2, (n,r):1, (o,p):2, (o,s):6, (p,q):1,   \
    (p,s):2, (p,t):1, (q,r):8, (q,t):3, (r,t):8,   \
    (s,z):2, (t,z):8                               \
    }

distances = dijkstra(a,graph)
X = distances.keys()
X.sort()
for vertex in X: print vertex, ": ", distances[vertex]
"""

####################################################
####################################################

"""
#################################
## Rosen; Section 8.6; Exercise 3
#################################

declareVertices('a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l')

graph = {                                 \
    (a,b):2, (b,c):3, (c,d):1,            \
    (a,e):3, (b,f):1, (c,g):2, (d,h):5,   \
    (e,f):4, (f,g):3, (g,h):3,            \
    (e,i):4, (f,j):2, (g,k):4, (h,l):3,   \
    (i,j):3, (j,k):3, (k,l):1             \
    }

totalWeight = lambda tree,graph: sum([graph[edge] for edge in tree])
spanTree=kruskal(graph)
print totalWeight(spanTree,graph)
"""





From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 05:34:16 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:34:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file 
In-Reply-To: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFAEIPECAA.whisper@oz.net>
Message-ID: <20040306103416.80219.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com>

The example on pickle shows how to print number lines
in a text file:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/pickle-example.html

However I saw the usage of pickle module.
If I use it in my file I get an output like that,

(dp0
S'code'
p1
I1283
sS'help'
p2
I1021
sS'precedence'
p3
I1010
sS'text'
p4
I972
sS'both'
p5
I1246
sS'mbqpw'
p6
I911
sS'syntax'
p7
I1165
sS'ratree'

etc...
which I reallly dont want.

My problem still remains unsolved, which I have not
been able to fix even after trying all keys, values,
enumerate things associated with dictionary:

In one simple line:

How do I associate an index with a dictionary:
For example:
My dictionary is this:

Okay
Bye
Take 
Care

How to I assign an index of 1 with Okay, 2 with Bye, 3
with Take and 4 with Care.
If I try dict.keys() It gives me Okay, Bye etc and If
I  try with .values() It gives me some strange numbers


In other words:
What I want is:

When I compare a message with the words in the
dictionary, whenever there is a match, I want to store
that index of the dictionary, where there was word and
compute the value of the corresponding matching word.
If I use the enumerate, it gives the location of the
word in the message, which I dont want. I want to
store the corresponding location of the word in the
dictionary instead  of the corresponding location in
the message.

for i in msg:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1

         except:
             vector[i] = 1

for v,i in enumerate(vector):
    vector[i] /= a
    #print v,i, vector[i] ; if u want to see the word
too that was commmon
    print v,":",vector[i]
    #rint "\n"



--- David LeBlanc <whisper at oz.net> wrote:
>  
> > Hey,
> > I have a simple problem:
> > I have this dictionary output as per the format I
> > desired :
> > index : value
> > 
> > However, I want to write this to a file, instead
> of
> > just printing out to the std output.
> > I tried to make a new string s= i+ ":" +v
> > and fwrite(s) to the file. First it does not work.
> > Second I loose the relationship of index with the
> > value which I dont want. Can some one point me how
> to
> > write this to a file while still preserving index:
> > value relationship as it is present in the current
> > dictionary.
> > 
> > Sorry for the basic questions, I am struggling
> with a
> > project.
> > 
> > Thx
> > Dont
> > words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
> > dct = {}
> > for i in xrange(len(words)):
> >      dct[words[i]] = i
> >      #print dct
> > 
> > 
> > for i, v in enumerate(dct):
> > 	#s= i+":"+v
> > 	print i,":",v
> > 
> 
> 
> How about pickling the dictionary? See the pickle
> module in the doc.
> 
> import pickle
> 
> pickle.dump(dct, open('dctfilename.ext', 'w'))
> 
> Dave LeBlanc
> Seattle, WA USA
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From tundra at tundraware.com  Tue Mar  9 22:50:07 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 22:50:07 EST
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
In-Reply-To: <mailman.196.1078884831.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
	<mailman.196.1078884831.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3af2i1-c1i1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:

> Tim wrote:
> 
>>One of the things I find myself needing over and over is providing an
>>external configuration file for use by my applications. For various
>>reasons, I have not been satisfied with other solutions to this problem
>>I have seen so far.
>>
>>So ...I am about 25% done with a new Python module I've wanted to write
>>for some time. It is intended as general purpose configuration file
>>parser complete with conditionals, variable substitution, etc. The idea
>>is that you hand it the name of a configuration file, and it returns a
>>populated symbol table, ready-to-use.
> 
> 
> Just curious, but does it offer much over just doing this:
> 
> In a file called config.py:
> 
> optionA = 'foo'
> 
> optionB = 'bar'
> 
> class Network:
>     optionC = 'baz'
> 
> And then in your application doing:
> 
> import config
> 
> config.optionA
> config.Network.optionC
> 
> etc..?
> 
> That's what I use now and it pretty much does everything I want - the dummy
> classes give an easy named hierarchy/grouping of values, and since it's just a
> Python module you also get built-in support for conditionals, variable
> substitution, etc. Also, you don't have to write code to do a bunch of syntax
> verification since Python does that for you. I've used this on several projects
> where the config file is editable by non-programmers and they haven't had any
> problems. I usually stick in the config all the documentation for each setting
> too.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 

How about something like this:
-------------------------------


# Uncomment one of the follow as appropriate

# WIN32 = Anyoldvalue
# UNIX  = Anyoldvalue

HOMEDIR =
DIRLST  =

.if [WIN32]
     HOMEDIR   = [$HOMEPATH]
     STDCONFIG = [$HOMEPATH]\MyStuff\std.cfg
     DIRLST  = dir
.endif

.if [UNIX]
     HOMEDIR   = [$HOME]
     STDCONFIG = /usr/local/etc/std.cfg
     DIRLST    = ls
.endif

# Go get default configuration

.include [STDCONFIG]

# Construct string representing dir listing appropriate for this OS

DIRLISTING = [DIRLIST] [HOMEDIR]




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 00:49:19 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 21:49:19 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0403112149.1b3d0e78@posting.google.com>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in message news:<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500, John Roth wrote:
> > Someday people will get over their attachment with being able to write
> > programs with any old text editor that happens to be lying around, and
> > being able to print their programs without needing a special
> > formatting program, but that day isn't today, and I doubt if it's
> > tomorrow.
> 
> I doubt it's ever, because such a day would have to be preceded by the
> day when programs no longer need to be inspected, maintained or
> transferred between systems not specifically set up as developer
> workstations.

funny thing is VB has survived this long just because you HAVE to have
the IDE to edit the code. That is one of the biggest selling points of
VB.

It should not be an issue, just make all the IDE's cross platform.

All the worth while Java IDE's are cross platform. Intellij IDEA and
Together.
Maybe Eclipse but it is pretty buggy compared to the commerical
offerings.

That is what Python is missing is an quality IDE that is cross
platform. All the ones out now suck when compared to something like
IDEA or Together.

anyone that thinks about following up this post with anything about vi
or emacs can just stop right now and go back to their hole.


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 00:57:36 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:57:36 -0800
Subject: simple py2exe import os error
In-Reply-To: <c3u93e$k1a$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <c3u93e$k1a$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c435ae$cae$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Mark Light wrote:
> Hi,
>    I am trying to use py2exe on a simple python program and get the
> error below. Any ideas? It runs fine on my laptop at home but not on my
> desktop at work - I think they are setup the same - but I guess there
> must be some subtle difference.

[snip yield error]

Do me a favor and run "python -V" from that same path.  I have a feeling 
that you have Python 2.2 installed somewhere.

  - Josiah


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sun Mar 28 04:27:33 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:27:33 -0800
Subject: asyncore deficiencies
In-Reply-To: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>
References: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c46607$cgk$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> After 2 days or so of fiddling about, I have decided, as many before
> me have, that the current asyncore module is the most inflexible,
> brain-dead, and useless module to be found on the face of the earth!

A bit of subclassing goes a long ways towards making it easier to handle.


> It appears that my next stop for well-engineered event-driven
> progamming is Twisted, but that is quite a hop from the 500 lines that
> is asyncore. I have decided in the meantime to stick with asyncore,
> despite it's failings. It has got me thinking though, shouldn't there
> be a standard module that does this sort of thing correctly, on a
> scale comparable to asyncore? ie. asyncore2

Indeed.  Twisted is a big jump.  Those that have gotten used to it seem 
to enjoy it quite a bit.  It seems to have most every protocol already 
implemented, and it seems to interact nicely with various GUI toolkits, 
databases, etc.  I've stuck with asyncore.

I agree that there should probably be some sort of asyncore2; I have a 
handful of boilerplate servers and clients that I use as a base any time 
I need something.  Optimally, an asyncore2 library would have simple 
clients and servers ready to be subclassed and customized as needed.


> My biggests gripes with asyncore so far have been:
> 
> - Exception handling: namely, it's fairly braindead. As an example, if
> you are using a private map for loop(), when an Exception is caught it
> is dumped to stderr, then the dispatcher causing it is destroyed.
> However, the dead dispatcher is not removed from your private map,
> resulting in the loop iterating again, and your dead dispatcher
> causing an "invalid file descriptor" error.

I'm curious as to why you need to use a private map.  Most uses of 
private maps I've seen haven't added any sort of meaningful 
functionality that couldn't have been handled by the default map.  Yours 
could be an exception, but I'm still curious.


> - Unclear API: asyncore.loop(timeout = ...) is a parameter passed on
> to the underlying poll() or select(). I can see no circumstance for
> ever needing to change this. However, I did manage to mistake it for a
> "maximum execution time" of the poll function, assuming that after
> this time it would return control to the caller. Again, it's unclear.

asyncore.loop loops forever.  asyncore.poll does the one-shot deal. 
more on this later.

> - Lack of flexibility. I have to use SIGALRM or an external process
> connected via a socket to get asyncore to change execution path based
> on non-socket events. The only other way of accomplishing this, is to
> temporarily empty your map to break out of loop(), then repopulate it,
> probably using a couple of global variables while you're at it.

Again, you need to use asyncore.poll.

> - Unclear interfaces: you must override all methods inherited from a
> dispatcher even if you don't use all of them - this makes for verbose
> code when it is not necessary.

Agreed.  I have a few private classes that I subclass from that take 
care of the "unimplemented" warnings.


> - Incorrect interfaces: (this is assumed) for a UDP socket,
> handle_connect() gets called on first read, despite the fact that UDP
> is connectionless, and it doesn't make sense to make an exception of
> the first received packet. The idea of taking the strange semantics
> detected from select() or poll() and turning them into nice meaningful
> names is a good one, however it could be improved.

I've never used asyncore with UDP sockets, but maybe using 
"handle_connect = handle_read" in your subclass definition could be 
sufficient.


> So far, I'd like to see:
> 
> - Less stuffy API: move select() and poll() choice to either an
> internal decision based on the number of active dispatchers (bad),
> system call availability (better), a module-level configuration value
> (ish), or simply use one or the other. Polling objects translate quite
> well into how asyncore works internally (but they're not available
> everywhere).

That is exactly why polling is optional.  Select is available on every 
platform, but poll is faster on platforms that support it...


> - A 'process_once' to allow you to write your own loop()s.

asyncore.poll (or the equivalent poll2 and poll3 if poll is available on 
your platform) is what you are looking for.  I use it quite often for 
things like:

while not QUIT:
     asyncore.poll(.01)
     #handle any sort of background processing if necessary

It is also quite useful to be able to drop in an asyncore.poll(.001) 
inside a GUI application.  What I commonly do in wxPython apps is...

         #inside __init__
         wx.Timer(self, 10001).Start(10, wx.TIMER_CONTINUOUS)
         wx.EVT_TIMER(self, 10001, self.PollSocket)

     def PollSocket(self, event):
         asyncore.poll(.001)
         #pull any sort of waiting packets
         #from the properly buffered dispatchers


> - Non braindead exception handling: if an exception occurs, I want to
> see it propagated back up to the parent, as happens everywhere else,
> not passed to a handle_error() method or "verbosely ignored".

The trick with doing this is that you end up interrupting other 
potentially ready sockets with handling an exception.  If you are 
feeling fiesty, I believe you can use the following and get the error 
propagated back up:

     def handle_error(self):
         raise


> - Decoupling from socket objects: removal of the __getitem__ magic
> which causes screenfuls of abuse for a simple typo at the wrong stage
> in execution.

Infinite recursion in asyncore?  Yikes, I've not hit that bug before. 
Care to post some offending code?


> - Possibly combined with the above, a more abstract way of watching
> for events from elsewhere? Doing this might ruin the overall
> simplicity of the module.

Something like...

     def handle_read(self):
         socket_post_event(self, READ_EVENT)

One could even have a framework for registering even handlers...yikes, 
this is starting to sound like wxPython.  I don't know if that is a good 
idea or not.



From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid  Mon Mar  8 20:34:06 2004
From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid (leeg)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:34:06 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2j71h$ovl$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:

<snip GOTO>
> 
> No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.

*points at the Linux kernel source*
-- 
Graham Lee
I am leeg, for we are many
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it" - Alan Kay, 1971
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wadh1342



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Mar  3 18:22:52 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:22:52 -0600
Subject: Numeric array of objects
References: <3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <g7GdnUuLZP1R9dvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

What you want is n "instances" of the class xy.
Since __init__ method is called when an instance
is created, the instance.x and instance.y
attributes will be 0.0, 0.0 unless you set them
to something different (as arguments to the
instance creation).

 class xy:
     def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
         self.x = x
         self.y = y

n=10
x=[xy() for j in range(10)]

after that

x[0].x equals 0.0
x[0].y equals 0.0
.
.
.
x[9].x equals 0.0
x[9].y equals 0.0

I "think" this is what you want, but I'm not certain.

-Larry


<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote in message
news:3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f at posting.google.com...
> You create a 1-D Numeric array of n floats with
>
> x = zeros(n,Float)
>
> How do you create a Numeric array of n instances of class 'xy', where
> for example xy is defined as follows:
>
> class xy:
>     def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
>         self.x = x
>         self.y = y
>
> I want the elements of the array to be initialized to the default
> value of xy, (0.0,0.0). I have read the Martelli's explanation on p309
> of the book "Python in a Nutshell", but I still don't get it.




From http  Thu Mar  4 19:05:50 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 16:05:50 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<23891c90.0403040241.60eb33a4@posting.google.com>
	<7x7jy0o8qd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<qnkd67swfld.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <7x7jy0cg4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) writes:
> http://python.org/peps/pep-0249.html
> 
> PEP 249 is the DB-API.

That's an informational PEP, which implementations can follow or ignore
as they please.

> Ok, so it's not in the standard distribution -- as you said, there
> aren't any (SQL) database modules in the standard distribution
> [1]. But this is the standard API for database interfacing (and it's
> not a third-party API, either). Most third-party modules conform to
> it (except for weird or old ones).

Yes, but once you add such a module, you're no longer comparing PHP to
Python.  You're comparing PHP to {Python plus some third party package
whose stability etc. you have to evaluate from scratch}.  That's an
issue that people trying to deploy real-world production servers care
about regardless of how much academics and hobbyists tend to brush it
off.

> And hey, if you're choosing a database module, you've got to have
> already chosen a database -- MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite, etc. This is a
> bigger choice than "how do I talk to it." The Python DB-API makes it
> relatively easy to write code where the difference in talking to
> different databases is only in your SQL, and not how you call it.

No, the DB-API doesn't help you write code at all.  It's the DB-API
plus it's implementation that lets you write code.  The implementation
doesn't come with Python, so you have to look elsewhere for it.

Look, I'm not exactly singing the praises of PHP; there's lots of
things they could have done right and didn't, and it's nowhere near as
good a general purpose development language as Python.  But it was
written for a specific task that it handles pretty well out of the
box, that Python doesn't handle at all unless you add complex
additional modules maintained by outsiders.  Brushing that off and
saying "Spyce, CherryPy, etc. are all out there, just download them"
is only a matter of degrees better than responding to "Program XYZ is
full of bugs and crashes all the time and the developers ignore
everyone" with "that's no big deal, it's open source, you can fix the
bugs yourself and then it will be fine".


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 21 02:00:21 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:00:21 +0100
Subject: problem with a css cycler
References: <mailman.197.1079821779.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3jei6$anm$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Adriano Varoli Piazza wrote:

> Hello all
> I am trying to build a css cycler in python, to change the css used in a
> website every X number of days, using a list of files: the first X days
> it'd show file1, then file2, then file3, then back to the first one.
> 
> The code I came up with is the following:
> 
> css = ["file1", "file2", "file3"]
> i = 0

> max_i = 3
remove the above line, you might forget updating max_i someday when you
change the css list - len(css) is less errorprone.

> today = int(raw_input("today's date: "))
> stored_day = 1

days  = today - stored_day
i = days % len(css)

> print "Variable today is %s .\n" % today
> print "Variable stored_day is %s .\n" % stored_day
> print "Variable i is %s .\n" % i
> print "Variable css is now %s \n" % css[i]
> ----------
> The problem with this is that it works only for the first X days. How do
> I make it "keep state" for the next iterations?
> 
> Thanks

The % "modulo" operator gives you the rest of an integer division, e. g:

>>> for i in range(10):
...     print i, "% 3 =", i % 3
...
0 % 3 = 0
1 % 3 = 1
2 % 3 = 2
3 % 3 = 0
4 % 3 = 1
5 % 3 = 2
6 % 3 = 0
7 % 3 = 1
8 % 3 = 2
9 % 3 = 0
>>>

Peter



From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Mar  8 08:52:08 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:52:08 +0100
Subject: Need better string methods
In-Reply-To: <070320041455559019%bscholln@mac.com>
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<070320041455559019%bscholln@mac.com>
Message-ID: <404c7a7f$0$241$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

benjamin schollnick wrote:

>>line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
> 
>    I am assuming your running into these lines on a regular basis, so
> make a wrapper around your python function...  Call it "Cleanup" or
> "Parse_bar_line_string" or something that makes sense to your
> users, and have them call that function....


Or if it needs to be a bit more flexible, and the data allways follow 
that recursive pattern in your line, it could be a recursive function::

     def recursive_split(data, *args)

That would be used like::

     result = recursive_split(data, '|', '.')

So that the string would build nested lists that are recursively split 
on the arguments in the order they are passed.

In fact I wonder why such a function isn't a string method anyway, as 
that approach is used so often for parsing simple files. Most of the 
times I use split, I use it recursively on the input file. Ie for a 
small tab seperated text file it would be:

data = """
a:1\tb:2\tc:3
d:4\te:5\tf:6
g:7\th:8\th:9
"""

result = recursive_split(data, '\n', '\t', ':')
for line in result:
     for item in line:
         key, value = item


regards Max M


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar 22 09:49:52 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:49:52 -0500
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org><c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com><c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<DD2E4369-7BE3-11D8-8375-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>
Message-ID: <c3mueb$pp$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Ronald Oussoren" <oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote in message
news:DD2E4369-7BE3-11D8-8375-0003931CFE24 at cistron.nl...
> >> In practice though, there is really just one implementation of Python
> >> (with the standard libraries... excluding Jython)

People who make their living with Jython would find the exclusion puzzling
;-)

> That's *two* implementations of Python: CPython and Jython, one of
> which uses pyc files. You're conveniently ignoring the primary example
> of a Python interpreter that does not use pyc files.

There are actually two more:

 3) Viper (now dead, I believe), which translated Python (+ 'enhancements')
to, I believe, with some fuzzyness, OCaml.

4) PyPy (as yet only partial, I believe), which, if funded for development
and spectacularly successful, could become the reference implementation
(but that is at best years away).

Nonetheless, CPython is now the main, reference implementation.  2.x.y .pyc
files are cross-platform portable.  I believe the same is also true
regardless of the '.y' part.  Reading PyDev, I have seen no evidence that
the planned 2.4 will be very much different.

Terry J. Reedy






From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  2 02:53:50 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:53:50 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <7x1xob6ads.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<Xns949FF2BD1BE73rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c21871$hlc$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7x1xob6ads.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c21eni$p1d$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> How about two trailing commas: 
> 
>    print foo
> 
> now prints foo with a trailing newline.
> 
>    print foo,
> 
> suppresses the trailing newline but adds a trailing space.
> 
>    print foo,,
> 
> can suppress the trailing space as well.

Do you really want to see the following;

print "hello ",,"world"


IMO, if people really want to have precise control over their program 
output, then they should be using sys.stdout.write(), printf-style 
string formatting, or both.  For me, I see print as a convenience, not 
as a one-function-fits-all-for-all-program-output.

  - Josiah


From paul at fxtech.com  Mon Mar 15 15:41:10 2004
From: paul at fxtech.com (Paul Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:41:10 -0600
Subject: 4Suite Domlette and Unicode - does it work?
In-Reply-To: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040315144031.057bcec0@mail.fxtech.com>

Can someone tell me if 4Suite Domlette works correctly with Unicode paths?

This would be on Windows and on OS X.





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 24 12:46:58 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:46:58 +0100
Subject: [OT] Static typing and split brains research
Message-ID: <4061ca3a$0$124$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

One of the fascinating abilities of the human brain is to construct a
perceptual reality for us, with perceived continuity and integrality
where in fact there is no such thing. 

If certain parts of the perceptual field are not available our brain
just fools us into seeing a complete perceptual field. For example
there is a place on the human retina where the optical nerve blocks
sensory input. It is easily possible to find ones blind spot if one
knows about this fact and if one has an idea about where it is in the
visual field. Normally however, one is unaware of it.

Some research with epilepsy patients who had their corpus callosum -a
kind of mechanism linking the left and right hemispheres of the brain-
split in order to prevent attacks gives further clues.

The patients have a split visual field so that what is to their left
is seen by their right hemisphere and what is to their right is seen
by their left hemisphere. When asked about things visible in the
hemisphere without the *linguistic* abilities these patients respond
that they see nothing. However when asked to point to a picture of the
unseen object they almost always "guess" right.

Somehow the brain is able to fill in the blanks if information is not
available and conversely it is able to *use* information that we are
not even consciously aware of.

So after this long intro I would like to make the link to programmers
that are using some kind of programming language and getting results
consistent with their world view. Once one has decided that static
typing is necessary and accordingly uses a statically typed language
the brain just fills in the details and the programmer lives in a
consistent world. The same goes for dynamically typed languages of
course.

Now imagine a situation where ones job is dependent on "believing" in
some kind of information technology infrastructure. Now we don't even
have the option to believe otherwise, because it would damage our
career opportunities.

In these circumstances it is incredibly hard to gather scientific
evidence about programmer productivity as correlated to the use of
certain programming languages. But at least we now have begun to
understand *why* that is so hard. I hope someone fills in the blanks
of this theory :-)

BTW, for a more artistic corollary of this idea I strongly advise to
read "A Voyage to Arcturus" by David Lindsay, see f.e.

http://www.litrix.com/arcturus/arctu001.htm

Where the main character travels to a distant world where -among other
things- peoples world views are changing because of new sets of
sensory equipment.

Anton




From tbettio at transnorm.ch  Wed Mar 10 13:43:09 2004
From: tbettio at transnorm.ch (Tiziano Bettio)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:43:09 +0100
Subject: Equalizer function on win32 with python
Message-ID: <c2nnj6$322$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hi All,

I'm looking for a module providing access to get outputvolume (in dB or 
similar) of a channel (for example wave or master) from my sounddevice..

any hints?

TC


From jdtiede at sstar.com  Tue Mar  9 18:13:26 2004
From: jdtiede at sstar.com (John D. Tiedeman)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:13:26 -0600
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
In-Reply-To: <E1B0p5G-0004dF-QA@mail.python.org>
References: <E1B0p5G-0004dF-QA@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <404E4F96.8000701@sstar.com>

I have tried PostGreSQL, PyGreSQL, pypgsql, psycopg, and PDO and have 
yet to connect to PostgreSQL 7.4 (.1 in one box, .2 in the other).

With PostGreSQL-3.4 and pypgsql-2.4, using setup.py build results in 
"error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1."

I couldn't install psycopg-1.1.11 because it asks for PgSql header 
files; the only one I can identify is postgres.h.

With PDO-1.2.1 I don't know what to import--neither pdo nor PDO nor pgdb 
works.

I was using Delphi with Paradox tables (not to my liking, but more 
reliable than dBASE) until I got rid of Windows altogether. I am using 
RH Linux 9.0 on one box, Fedora 1 on the other. I want to use either 
Tkinter or PyQt to set up data entry forms, etc. I have been able to get 
Qt up but not PyQt.



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 10:52:29 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:52:29 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106b8ptboh4ig4a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <406532F7.D56DC671 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
>Just wanted to add another example of stuff that
>I encounter alot of.  As in many computer languages,
>various kinds of scopes are delineated by things
>like braces or begin/end statements.  I often find
>it valuable to find an occurance of certain things
>(e.g. certain data declaration) within certain
>scope structures.  Sed is convenient for that:
>
>	/SomeStartPattern/,/SomeEndPattern/{
>		Do some stuff,
>		including conditional branching
>	}
>
>To avoid the hassle of writing a script file and
>filtering the input source file to an output source
>file, I often use gvim's awesome pattern matching
>and macro recording abilities.  A sed script file
>can look pretty cryptic, especially when I want
>to search across physical lines (lots of conditional
>flow to append things to the hold buffer, etc..).
>For that reason, I tend to stay with quick/dirty
>practices in gvim.  Crypticness (though not of the
>same variety) is one of the things that I found
>hard about ramping up on Perl, to the degree that
>I did.  As I hinted earlier, a fair comparison would
>account for the fact that its power would be more 
>apparent if I became adequately guru-like, but
>realistically, I will not spend enough time with
>it on a regular basis to expect that.  Here again
>is a dichotomy; I appreciate the sed terseness because
>I can make a command line pipe stage out of it, but
>the same brevity in a scripting language can make for
>rough going.  Maybe it's wishful thinking to expect
>one language to cover all the bases that I initially
>mentioned.
			.
			.
			.
I *really* don't know how to respond to this; a
sentence with "sed", "conditional" and "convenient"
leaves me at a loss.

Both Perl and Python are good fits for large popu-
lations.  I have a lot of confidence that, in the
near future, you'll find the one you've choosen 
handier than either sed or Matlab, *even for most
of the tasks at which sed and Matlab are good*.
Perl and Python are that strong.

Python's population has a greater propensity to
regard its readability as an advantage, while
Perlites often revel in concise power.  Try 'em
both briefly, choose one that makes a good impres-
sion, and get back to your engineering work.  
You'll be glad you upgraded to a 'P' language.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 16 15:20:37 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:20:37 +0100
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c37nim$58r$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Translating the replacements pairs into a dictionary would result in a 
> significant speedup for large numbers of replacements.
> 
> mapping = dict(replacement_pairs)
> 
> def multi_replace(inp, mapping=mapping):
>     return u''.join([mapping.get(i, i) for i in inp])

Using the .translate() method on unicode strings should be
even more performant:

# prepare mapping table to match .translate interface
table = {}
for k,v in replacement_pairs: table[ord(k)]=v

def multi_replace(inp):
   return inp.translate(table)

Regards,
Martin



From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 12:25:35 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:25:35 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid> <xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
	<mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hgr3501a1qu612fvumq5ccd0vrocdoc4pf@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:20:14 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>Given Python's current object model it would be an interesting challenge to
>write a "super reload" which could identify all the objects created as a
>side effect of importing a module and for those with multiple references,
>locate those other references by traversing the known object spaces, then
>perform the import and finally rebind the references found in the first
>step.  I thought I saw something like this posted in a previous thread on
>this subject.

I'm not familiar with the internals of Python, but I was assuming that
all objects could be easily associated with the module which created
them.  If not, maybe what we need is the ability to put a selected
module in "debug" mode and keep a list of all objects created by that
module and all references to those objects.  That would add a little
overhead, but avoid the difficulties of searching all object spaces
with every reload.

-- Dave



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 17 16:44:56 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 22:44:56 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek at lxplus057.cern.ch> wrote:

> which implies "weak typing" means there's the possibility of treating
> a piece of data as the wrong type.

Yes, consider

   "3" + 3

In languages that do not consider the above to be an error, you will
probably get "33" or 6 as the result. Whether one of those pieces of
data is treated as the wrong type or not, depends on your intentions.

> The FOLDOC definition
> 
>   http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=weak+typing
> 
> which mentions things like
> 
>   int a = 5;
>   float b = a;
> 
> to me doesn't have anything to do with weak typing, since the int is
> correctly converted to a float.  I guess thay're calling it "weak
> typing" because the cast is implicit.

Yes, and the more implicit type conversion a language does, the more
likely it is to get it wrong (because what is correct depends on the
programmers intention), therefore there is a greater likelyhood of
getting the wrong result. Which is why I consider implicit type
conversions to be an aspect of weak typing. (However, I have no
problems with you not seeing it that way.)

If you don't call it "strong/weak typing", do you have an alternative
name to describe differences in how "easy going" a type system is?

Consider the following table.


            ML    Python   PERL

1.5 + 1     No     Yes     Yes

"3" + 3     No     No      Yes


ML is clearly stricter than Python, which is stricter than PERL. Do
you have a name for this sort of strictness ?


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 17:24:59 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:24:59 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
In-Reply-To: <uoeqojxg8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
	<fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c37svj$jlu$1@news.service.uci.edu> <uoeqojxg8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <c3qdlm$b8n$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Well, as long as you don't include startup time I'd agree, but it is a
> bit bloated in terms of loading that initial support DLL, which
> includes potentially far more of wxWindows (oops, wxWidgets) than a
> given application needs.

Well, if you checked date stamps, Asier's message about "startup times" 
being critical was roughly 20 hours after my my message.

Asier originally said, "wxpython is horribly slow" with no pointer as to 
the startup time being slow.  Both Peter and I believed he meant 'slow 
while running', which neither of us have experienced, which is why we 
commented.


  - Josiah


From plb at iotk.com  Fri Mar 19 15:19:13 2004
From: plb at iotk.com (Peter L. Buschman)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 12:19:13 -0800
Subject: Import a module from parent package
Message-ID: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>

I have a package tree laid out like this

foo/bar/module/submodule
foo/bar/module/submodule/test
foo/bar/module/submodule/test/test1.py
foo/bar/module/submodule/test/test2.py
...

What I want is for test1.py and test2.py to be able
to import their parent "submodule" as part of a regression
testing scheme.  I could do this by putting "import foo.bar.module.submodule"
in them, but this code won't necessarily always be installed in foo/bar.

Is there a way to do something like this from test1.py and test2.py?

import __parent__.__parent__.submodule

That way, no matter where the entire "module" package gets installed, the
regression tests will always be able to find and import their parent modules
whose functionality they need to test.

Essentially, this is like referencing ../../submodule from the command-line.

--PLB


From wweston at att.net  Wed Mar 31 14:38:34 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:38:34 GMT
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
In-Reply-To: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <_6Fac.9377$He5.187843@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Markus Franz wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> How can I grab websites with a command-line python script? I want to start
> the script like this:
> 
> ./script.py ---xxx--- http://www.address1.com http://www.address2.com
> http://www.address3.com
> 
> The script should load these 3 websites (or more if specified) in parallel
> (may be processes? threads?) and show their contents seperated by ---xxx---.
> The whole output should be print on the command-line. Each website should
> only have 15 seconds to return the contents (maximum) in order to avoid a
> never-ending script.
> 
> How can I do this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Yours sincerely
> 
> Markus Franz
> 
> 

Markus,
    I think there's a timeout in urllib; not sure.


import urllib
import sys
#--------------------------------------
if __name__ == "__main__":
     if len(sys.argv) < 3:
         print 'arg error'
         sys.exit(1)
     sep = sys.argv[1]
     for url in sys.argv[2:]:
         try:
             f = urllib.urlopen(url)
             lines = f.readlines()
             f.close()
             for line in lines:
                 print line[:-1]
         except:
             print url,'get error'
         print sep



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 17:08:29 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:08:29 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com><1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com><roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com><58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com><c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04><c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
	<mailman.109.1080639892.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xdmac.74862$cx5.37963@fed1read04>

> The fragility I see is that storing a function in a variable doesn't
modify
> the function, but storing it as an attribute of an object does...

Aha, I see our problem now.  In prothon, all variables are attributes of an
object.  There is no distinction between variables and attributes.  That is
part of the great simplification of Prothon.

>  they are in the dict of the instance, but not the class

See, another meaningless statement in classless Prothon.

> How is it possible to store a function from some object in another
> object for later use, e.g. as a callback?

Prothon is object-centric, not object-oriented or function-oriented.  You
would pass a call-back object, not a function:

   # module A
   call_back_obj = Object()
   def call_back_obj.fire():
      #code with closure to do whatever ...
   request_from_B(call_back_obj)

   # module B
   call_back_obj.fire()


"Andrew Bennetts" <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.109.1080639892.20120.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 10:46:42PM -0800, Mark Hahn wrote:
> > I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
> > with a function like a closure of sorts?
> >
> > In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs
ands
> > or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?
>
> How is it possible to store a function from some object in another object
> for later use, e.g. as a callback?
>
> i.e. in Python syntax:
>
>     class C:
>         def __init__(self, callbackFunc):
>             self.callbackFunc = callbackFunc
>
>         def fireCallback(self):
>             self.callbackFunc()
>
>     c = C(someobj.method)
>
>     ...
>
>     c.fireCallback()
>
> > You say fragile.  What breaks?
>
> The fragility I see is that storing a function in a variable doesn't
modify
> the function, but storing it as an attribute of an object does, i.e.
>
>     f = someobj.method
>     x = f
>     x()
>
> behaves differently to:
>
>     otherobj.f = someobj.method
>     x = otherobj.f
>     x()
>
> Python solves this by wrapping functions found in classes as (un)bound
> methods (which keep track of the instance they were accessed from) -- but
> functions found on *instances* (i.e. they are in the dict of the instance,
> but not the class) are left alone.  It works well :)
>
> -Andrew.
>
>




From 2002 at weholt.org  Tue Mar  9 16:37:27 2004
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:37:27 +0100
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
Message-ID: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>

I need a piece of code to extract as much info about OS, current status and
hardware from a machine as possible ( at least, all available partitions and
free space on these, CPU-speed, free/total memory and stuff like that ) at
one given moment on Linux and Windows.

Any hints? Can I call something in win32all on Windows or read some file on
linux? I'm not sure where to begin.

Thomas




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Fri Mar  5 07:35:01 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:35:01 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:37:17 +0000, Stephen Horne
<steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:52:27 GMT, Dang Griffith
><noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>The 'print' statement is just shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write' with
>>>some convenience features suitable for most users.  If you need
>>>something else, just define your own shortcut, don't deprecate a
>>>statement that is exactly what most users want.
>>
>>'print' is not a shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write'.
>>'print' is a statement.  'sys.stdout.write' is a function.
>>You can't define a shortcut for a statement.
>>    --dang
>
>To the best of my knowledge, the word 'shortcut', is in common
>idiomatic use in English and refers to a quick and convenient means of
>achieving the same goal, by obvious analogy to the literal meaning of
>shortcut as a route to a given destination which is shorter than the
>normal route.
>
>The fact that in this case the means happens to be a statement as
>opposed to a function doesn't seem relevant to me. And the fact that
>programmers cannot define their own custom shortcuts in this way seems
>equally irrelevant.

I understand your idea.  However, the difference between a statement
and a function is exactly my point, and I see it as relevant--if any
language change is to come from this discussion.  New functions can be
added via modules, and do not require changes to the language itself.
New statements require changes to the language itself, which is what
the OP is asking for.  

The [in]ability to define "custom shortcuts", with regards to
statements, is especially relevant because Python doesn't support it.
Other languages do (Ruby?  et al), so someone thinks it's relevant.
It's relevant because if Python *did* support it, this thread wouldn't
be happening.  (Or at least would have ended after someone 
replied with "oh, just do XYZZY to make a printraw statement".)

>Actually, your protest seems analogous to saying 'that isn't a
>shortcut to the highstreet because its a back alley - the normal route
>is a proper road'. In literal shortcuts, the classification of roads,
>back alleys, dirt tracks etc is irrelevant, and I see no reason to
>fuss about technicalities such as the type of syntax in an idiomatic
>use.

I'm not trying to be pedantic (at least, I think I'm not trying), but
the difference between a statement and a function is a semantic
difference, not (just) a syntactic one.

>Similarly, I cannot build my own custom dirt tracks and back alleys,
>yet I can still refer to existing ones as shortcuts.
>
>If there was some specialist definition of the word 'shortcut' in
>Python I might agree that David had made a poor choice of words, but
>I'm not aware of any and even if there is that doesn't make normal
>English usage invalid.
>
>'print' is a quick and convenient way of doing much the same thing as
>'sys.stdout.write'. It's a shortcut. I honestly can't see any logic in
>claiming otherwise.

The logic is that "much the same" is not "the same", and is the point
of the OP's plea.

In any case, I think the one-liner posted satisfies nearly all of the
requirements.  

import sys
def pr(*args): sys.stdout.write(''.join([str(i) for i in args]))

Where it fails is the difference between a function and a statement.
The OP said [one of] the advantages of a statement is that there is no
need for parenthesis.  This is the reason I brought up the point that
a function and a statement are semantically different, and why none of
the function-based suggestions will satisfy the OP's plea.

    --dangout


From marco at bubke.de  Mon Mar 15 12:46:19 2004
From: marco at bubke.de (Marco Bubke)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:46:19 +0100
Subject: Seeking advice on GUI code architecture
References: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<slrnc5a9on.4ib.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<v4a5c.6160$CI3.4676@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c34q5b$cg1$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Qp wrote:

> OK, I've heard briefly about MVC.  I'll take a look and see if I can find
> any examples of that, particularily in network client development.
> 
> Thanks,
> Qp
> 
> "Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in
> message news:slrnc5a9on.4ib.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local...
>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:29:08 -0500, Qp wrote:
>> > My problem is this:  how do you keep your GUI code seperate from as
>> > much underlying code as possible?
>>
>> In the last decade, the "pattern language" method of formalising common
>> architectural solutions has been increasingly popular in programming.
>> It is especially popular in things like interface programming, where the
>> architecture chosen has a dramatic effect on the efficacy and efficiency
>> of the program.
>>
>> What you want may be the "Model-View-Controller" pattern.  Others may
>> suggest other patterns.  You would be well advised to read up on current
>> common patterns in interface design.
>>
>> --
>>  \         "I think a good gift for the President would be a chocolate |
>>   `\   revolver. And since he's so busy, you'd probably have to run up |
>> _o__)           to him real quick and hand it to him."  -- Jack Handey |
>> Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


Take a lok at this book. Its very good:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201633612/qid=1079372741/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-3309598-7663265

Marco


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 19:44:02 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:44:02 -0600
Subject: How to read one byte at a time in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20040313002600.72825.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040313002600.72825.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16466.22866.284250.761897@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Anthony> Java has functions that read only one byte at a time, do we
    Anthony> have such a function in python?

Check the curses and/or ncurses modules.

Skip



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 01:35:04 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:35:04 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c4aia1$2d44ll$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8y8ac.68250$cx5.51296@fed1read04>

> But presumably he wants the check done only once, when a subclass is
defined, *not* every time said subclass is instantiated.

You can have a different __init__ for an object and it's prototpe.So the
Prothon equivalent of a subclass can easily have different __init__
behaviour than it's child (what you call instance).  You need to unthink
classes when designing in Prothon.  If you try to move a problem from Python
to Prothon and think in the same classes/subclasses metaphors you won't get
very far.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c4aia1$2d44ll$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Joe Mason wrote:
> > In article <95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9 at posting.google.com>, Michele
Simionato wrote:
> >
> >>Uh? The base class __init__ method is not called when I derive a new
> >>class. I want to make the make the check at class level, *before*
> >>instantiating.
> >
> > It is if you call the inherited __init__ method, which you should be
> > doing because it probably does important stuff.
>
> But presumably he wants the check done only once, when a subclass
> is defined, *not* every time said subclass is instantiated. In
> Prothon it appears that both of these end up invoking the same
> __init__ method, so there's no way of telling them apart.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sun Mar 21 09:56:07 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:56:07 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20040321145607.GA14801@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Carl Banks]

> I'm not against asking for more information to give a better answer,
> but just second guessing people and telling them they don't really
> want what they're asking for (which is the impression I got from
> Pinard's reply, whether he intended it or not) gets under my skin.

I also hate when people try to guess what I mean in a question, and
reply to their guess instead of replying to my question.  When they do
this, it may be an indication that my question was not clear enough
to start with, yet sometimes I honestly think that, despite my poor
knowledge of English, I was pretty clear.  So, I understand the feelings
you have, and would likely share them if the situation was similar.

Yet, I'm often surprised how susceptible people are, and how prone they
are to read intentions which are foreign to me.  Not so long ago, on
python-dev, I dared asking someone "Are you sure?" (I do not remember my
exact words) and he got incredibly offended, to my greatest surprise.
Such reactions always astonish me, especially given the good guy I know
I am! :-) In French (maybe in English too?) we say that we "put white
gloves" when we get extremely cautious about not offending someone, but
I would hope that here and everywhere, people would be more prone at
giving each other a positive prejudice about each other's intents.

Peter Hansen in this thread summarises my thoughts in better words
that I could find myself, and I'm grateful that he does.  The problem
I have with the question from the original poster is that there are
many possible packages that could help him, some of which I know, many
of which I do not.  On one hand, I could keep silent on the premise
I cannot give a full answer.  On the other hand, I could try to help
nevertheless if I am hinted that I can be helpful -- in this case, I did
not know, as "compiling to binary" was a bit meaningless as a goal in
itself.  The truth is that I do not like replying at random, when I feel
I'm a bit short on my own time, which alas, is often the case...

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 15 07:45:13 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:45:13 GMT
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid> <xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
	<mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3smga9t46.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> Not so.  del sys.modules['mod']/import mod is effectively what
> reload() does.

It's more like 'exec mod.__file__[:-1] in mod.__dict__", actually.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I don't have any special knowledge of all this. In fact, I made all
  the above up, in the hope that it corresponds to reality.
                                            -- Mark Carroll, ucam.chat


From olku at web.de  Thu Mar 18 02:35:45 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:35:45 +0100
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
Message-ID: <200403180735.i2I7ZjQ01265@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hello Donn,

> > uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")
> 
> Have you tried uid("STORE", uid, "+FLAGS", "(\SEEN)")?

you brought me the right solution. It works! Thanks a lot!!! 


--
Oliver?Kurz




From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar 11 17:49:55 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:49:55 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561ED2@opus.amorhq.net>

Will Berry wrote:
> Style guidelines and coding standards are the devil!

Meh.

> I think nothing is more evil about coding standards than indentation. 
> My code (not only in Python but in C/C++ and PHP as well) for 
> whatever reason always ends up having about 6 levels of indentation
> in some places.
> 
> If the "standard" indentation is anything more than 2 spaces:
>      for each little loop or conditional:
>          you have to indent more and more until:
>              long lines of code (such as calls or complex \
>              mathematical expressions) have to span more \
>              lines than they would if only the indentation \
>              were shorter
> else:
>      you could simply wrap longer lines and complex \
> mathematical formulas without indentation on the remaining \
> lines but that just makes your code look like garbage

1. Using English sentences to "prove" arguments about formal languages
is always a bad idea.

2. Complex mathematical formulas are subject to readability concerns
just as much as any other statements. If your lines are getting too
long, break them up into a series of smaller statements. I have yet to
hear a reasonable argument to *prefer* a single, long, complex
statement.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 16 17:15:52 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:15:52 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <c9d82136.0403161102.668feaa3@posting.google.com>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c9d82136.0403161102.668feaa3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c37ugc$llq$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>             r += xlate[ord(i)]
>             r += i

Perhaps I'm going to have to create a signature and drop information 
about this in every post to c.l.py, but repeated string additions are 
slow as hell for any reasonably large lengthed string.  It is much 
faster to place characters into a list and ''.join() them.

 >>> def test_s(l):
...     t = time.time()
...     for i in xrange(100):
...             a = ''
...             for j in xrange(l):
...                     a += '0'
...     return time.time()-t
...
 >>> def test_l(l):
...     t = time.time()
...     for i in xrange(100):
...             a = ''.join(['0' for j in xrange(l)])
...     return time.time()-t
...
 >>> i = 128
 >>> while i < 4097:
...     print test_s(i), test_l(i)
...     i *= 2
...
0.0150001049042 0.0309998989105
0.0469999313354 0.047000169754
0.140999794006 0.109000205994
0.343999862671 0.203000068665
0.905999898911 0.40700006485
2.56200003624 0.828000068665

At 256 characters long, it looks about even.  Anything longer and 
''.join(lst) is significantly faster.

When we do something like the below, the overhead of creating short 
lists is significant, but it is still faster when l is greater than 
roughly 2048:
a = []
for i in xrange(l):
	a += ['0']


  - Josiah


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Mar 12 01:57:39 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 08:57:39 +0200
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7fzce8sd8.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Skip> name is a reddish color.  Strings are green.  Comments are
    Skip> blue.  None of the colors are too saturated though so even
    Skip> though it sounds garish it's not too hard on the eyes.  The

Aren't the actual, physical colors more of a global emacs issue,
rather than an issue w/ python-mode.el? I'm using color-theme.el
myself:

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/ColorTheme

I urge everyone to check it out, esp. if you spend >= 8 hours a day
staring at emacs windows :).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From o0__mike__0oREMOVE at THIShotmail.com  Fri Mar 19 05:42:13 2004
From: o0__mike__0oREMOVE at THIShotmail.com (Mike Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:42:13 GMT
Subject: Py Tic Tac Toe in action
References: <mailman.148.1079673411.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5fd9df8391de88247bd12cc1c46daa1@news.teranews.com>

On 2004-03-19, Premshree Pillai wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> See the Py Tic Tac Toe in action at
> http://balajin.net/cgi-bin/pyttt.py
>
> -Premshree Pillai
>
Just one thing. It appears that the AI will always block even if a
winning move is present. 

eg O's move:

 |A|B|C
1|X|O|
2|X|X|O
3| |X|O

the AI, O, will play A3 to block X rather than C1 to win.
-- 
Mike Peters
mike [-AT-] ice2o [-DOT-] com
http://www.ice2o.com


From goodger at python.org  Tue Mar  2 11:40:26 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:40:26 -0500
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <c22ddm$s2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Martin,

If you're really serious about this, and willing to champion it,
you should write a PEP.  Without a PEP, the idea will be forgotten.
See PEP 1 for instructions:
<http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html>.

-- David Goodger




From bigbinc at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 15 14:08:38 2004
From: bigbinc at hotmail.com (bigbinc)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 11:08:38 -0800
Subject: tkinter entry/text widget
Message-ID: <d1b33313.0403151108.5fa31ffb@posting.google.com>

I have used the 'entry' tk widget to get text values, I am now using
'Text' but I cant seem to use 'get' method.  The TK docs say use
get(index1, index2), I tried numbers and get an error


print self.textMain.get(1,255)

ceback (most recent call last):
ile "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call
 return self.func(*args)
ile "blog.py", line 60, in saveFile
 print self.textMain.get("1","255")
ile "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 2868, in get
 return self.tk.call(self._w, 'get', index1, index2)
Error: bad text index "1"


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 19:26:00 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:26:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to read one byte at a time in Python?
Message-ID: <20040313002600.72825.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>

Java has functions that read only one byte at a time,
do we have such a function in python?


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From fei at sst.bao.ac.cn  Thu Mar 25 20:16:52 2004
From: fei at sst.bao.ac.cn (LiuFeifei)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 9:16:52 +0800
Subject: (newbie)Problems while testing SioModule22
Message-ID: <200403261541.KAA12202@sst.bao.ac.cn>

Hi,I installed the SioModule22, and when running the scripts in the test directory,
I got the following traceback:

While runing terminal.py, I got:
 debug 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\Serial\Test\terminal.py", line 43, in ?
    terminal()
  File "C:\Python22\Serial\Test\terminal.py", line 18, in terminal
    fd.open()
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Serial\Serial.py", line 343, in open
    self._chkSioExec(SioReset, (port, self._bufSize,self.cfg['txBufSize']))
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Serial\Serial.py", line 326, in _chkSioExec
    raise SioError, '%s: %s' % (func.__name__, SioErrorText(status))
SioError: SioReset: The system cannot find the file specified. 

while runing Modem.py, I got:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\Serial\Test\Modem.py", line 98, in ?
    testModem(port=Serial.COM3)
  File "C:\Python22\Serial\Test\Modem.py", line 44, in testModem
    fd.open()
  File "C:\Python22\Serial\Test\Modem.py", line 17, in open
    Serial.Port.open(self)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Serial\Serial.py", line 343, in open
    self._chkSioExec(SioReset, (port, self._bufSize,self.cfg['txBufSize']))
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Serial\Serial.py", line 326, in _chkSioExec
    raise SioError, '%s: %s' % (func.__name__, SioErrorText(status))
SioError: SioReset: The system cannot find the file specified. 


    It seems that something is wrong with the Serial.py, But as a newbie, It's really a hard task for me to find the keys alone, So, can anyone please  give me a hint?

Thanks

Karon


???????





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 18:05:07 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:05:07 -0600
Subject: python-mode in emacs under OSX
In-Reply-To: <c3835e5f.0403231454.58f20703@posting.google.com>
References: <c3835e5f.0403231454.58f20703@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16480.49827.14165.837587@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Chris> When trying to debug some python code under emacs (OSX) with
    Chris> python-mode, I get the following:

    ...
    Chris>     if self.quitting: raise BdbQuit
    Chris> bdb.BdbQuit

    Chris> This does not happen with emacs/python-mode on other platforms;
    Chris> is there something OSX-specific that needs tweaking? 

Not that I'm aware of.  Can you submit a bug report to the python-mode or
python projects on SourceForge?

Skip



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 18 01:13:40 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:40 -0800
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto@4ax.com>
	<m3a6c.19554$E71.1405188@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Maa6c.19565$E71.1406836@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <40593E14.EAF16BD5@alcyone.com>

Sean Ross wrote:

> # sorry, that should be
> source = file('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt')

You really want to use double backslashes (\\) here or use a raw string
(r'...').  If not, this will eventually bite you.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Pick the roses from the thorns / Wash with waters of the storms
    -- Chante Moore


From francisgavila at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 15:54:15 2004
From: francisgavila at yahoo.com (Francis Avila)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:54:15 -0000
Subject: csv bugs
References: <slrnc48oph.8ob.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <20040303155407882-0500@news.shentel.net>

In <slrnc48oph.8ob.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> And another thing: Perhaps a 'passwd' dialect could be added alongside
> 'excel'? Something like:

I wanted this, and started to write it in Nov-2003, but because of bugs 
in csv, outlined in 

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=vsb89q1d3n5qb1%40corp.supernews.com

it is not possible to implement a passwd dialect, at least as of Python 
2.3.2.  Unless I missed something obvious.

-- 
Francis Avila


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 00:50:34 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 21:50:34 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>

> "Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
> > Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python lost
> > class static variables values.
---------------------------------
"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<105mmlt1ld7jvb9 at news.supernews.com>...
> There is no such thing as a static variable in Python.
---------------------------------
"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
> mean.
---------------------------------

A little hyphen would have made a whole world of difference. The
original poster was referring to "class-static variable", and he did
mention it explicitly. That's the standard jargon in languages like
C++ or Java. "Static" here does not mean "function-static", which in
C++ applies to a variable that belongs to the function's static scope
instead of the dynamic scope (I.e., function-static variables are not
destroyed: they keep their value upon exit of the function scope, and
the next time you enter the function, you get the previous value.)
"Class-static" means something else: it marks the ownership by a
class, not by a particular instance.

To be fair, the same jargon persists in Python when it comes to
staticmethod(): staticmethod in Python 2.3 has nothing to do with
"function staticity", but rather it refers to "class statiticity": a
staticmethod belongs to the class. Given this terminology in Python, I
think it is perfect natural to refer to class-level variables as
"class-static" variables.

"Static" is an meaning-overloaded word. The original poster did NOT
make a mistake. I think the two people that replied simply skipped the
word "class" in "class static variable".

Hung Jung


From jrm at ccs.neu.edu  Wed Mar  3 10:03:12 2004
From: jrm at ccs.neu.edu (Joe Marshall)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:03:12 -0500
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ishmnfbj.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>

nobody_u_should_no at yahoo.com (nobody) writes:

> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
> asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
> of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
> this language.

Did he ask you to post this article in these newsgroups?

  comp.lang.c++
  comp.lang.java.programmer
  comp.lang.scheme
  comp.lang.c
  comp.lang.python

Why did you not post it comp.lang.lisp where it would be at least
relevant?

> Due to time constraints, I will refrain from posting any
> follow-ups here.

If you do not intend to engage in convesation, why are you posting it?

> This article is a collection of facts anyone interested in
> Lisp should know about.

Is there some reason anyone should take `nobody' at yahoo seriously?

> Look up "a public apology" thread started by Pascal Costanza as an
> excellent example.

What does such a personal matter have to do with the language?

> I do not hate Lisp, and I think it was a fine tool decades
> ago, and I am not going to say "Lisp sucks".  However, now
> that we have superior languages for coding close to the
> iron, high-performance computing, number crunching,
> algorithms, scripting and gluing components together, Lisp
> should be finally retired.

You clearly have some sort of axe to grind.  If you don't like Lisp,
don't use it.

To others, if you are unfamiliar with Lisp you are welcome to read a
rebuttal in comp.lang.lisp

Please direct all followups to comp.lang.lisp


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 11 19:52:43 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:52:43 +0200
Subject: Python database
In-Reply-To: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <405109DB.4050402@zoran.com>

Hello None,

> Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? 
IIRC `metakit' is very simple to use.

 > As far as I have understood there is no standard data base in Python.
 > Why is this so? Do people have too different needs?
I think the `anydbm' module is what you're looking for.

HTH.
Miki


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar  8 15:19:49 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:19:49 +1100
Subject: Question on loops
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE0145F52E@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Daniel H Neilson
> 
> > If you're using Python 2.3.x
> > 
> > for i, line in enumerate(file):
> >     if i % 100 == 0:
> >         action
> > 
> >     process(line)
> > 
> > Tim Delaney
> 
> Beautiful. Thanks to those who responded. DHN

Note that as Sean pointed out, you will need to add 1 before performing the modulo if you want the action to be performed on the 100th line. As the above stands, the action will be performed on lines [1, 101, 201, ...].

So the test should either be:

    if i % 100 == 99:

or

    if (i + 1) % 100 == 0:

which will give you the action on lines [100, 200, 300, ...].

Tim Delaney



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Mon Mar 15 09:43:20 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:43:20 GMT
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uteb50lm5t0l2mf2f3lklmr3ruusj3mfjv@4ax.com>

>
>I think I may have misunderstood your original question.  The title of
>the thread is 'loop scope', but your question seems to be specifically
>on the loop iteration variable 't'.  Just think of it as a normal
>variable in the current local scope.

I can. But it's not my first inclination.  And I would speculate I am
far from alone. Having subtleties to be aware of in something as
fundamenatal as a for loop is not a great thing, IMO. On the hand
hand, it was a long time before any subtleties here had any practical
implications to me.  I had been getting away with ignorance.  But its
not a good feeling to know that.

t=None #(or something) 

required prior to a loop would  assure I am conscious of what I am
getting myself into.  Without it, it seems it isn't safe to assume the
user understands the full implications of simply complying with
required loop syntax.

Wouldn't something like this make sense:

With a loop iteration variable declared explicitly in the curent scope
and prior to the loop, it survives the loop.  Otherwise it is treated
as a placeholder within the loop, and goes out of scope at its
conclusion.

All other issues regarding scopes. with loops,  are as they are.

No new keywords, no overstating the issue.

But does 't=None' have any meaning in Python now?

I guess if it doesn't  anything along the lines of my suggestion
doesn't make much sense.

Art




From vincent at visualtrans.de  Mon Mar  1 14:45:49 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:45:49 +0100
Subject: default print format for floats
References: <3064b51d.0403011046.4238998d@posting.google.com>
	<c201sl$aif$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <c203tr$4f4$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>


"vincent wehren" <vincent at visualtrans.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c201sl$aif$1 at news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
| <beliavsky at aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
| news:3064b51d.0403011046.4238998d at posting.google.com...
| | By default, Python prints many floating point numbers with 17 digits
| | after the decimal place. I would like to make the DEFAULT 4 decimal
| | places. Is this possible?
| |
| | For example, the code
| |
| | from string import join
| | x = [1.0,0.3,0.4]
| | print x
| | print join(["%4.1f" % y for y in x])
| |
| | gives the output
| |
| | [1.0, 0.29999999999999999, 0.40000000000000002]
| |  1.0  0.3  0.4
| |
| | I want the simplicity of "print x", without so many decimal places.
|


| I wouldn't cjanging "DEFAULT BEHAVIOR", but a slight modification of the

This was supposed to read "I wouldn't call it changing "DEFAULT BEHAVIOR"...
Don't know what my fingers where thinking ;)

Vincent


| above
| gives you:
|
| >>> x = [1.0, 0.3, 0.4]
| >>> print ", ".join(["%.4f" % y for y in x])
| 1.0000, 0.3000, 0.4000
|
| Is this what you're after?
|
| HTH,
|
| Vincent Wehren
|
|
|




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 17:01:12 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:01:12 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <c37scs$j3b$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
	<c37scs$j3b$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16471.31016.544922.346049@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Terry> To make the formula nearly as clear without the overhead, I would
    Terry> consider

    Terry> import PZfuncs as z
    Terry> def h23(freq):
    Terry>     s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    Terry>     return z.h0 * (s-z.z1) * (s-z.z2) / ((s-z.p1) * (s-z.p2) * (s-z.p3))

Or even:

    def h23(freq):
        z = PZfuncs
        s = complex(2*pi*freq)
        return z.h0 * (s-z.z1) * (s-z.z2) / ((s-z.p1) * (s-z.p2) * (s-z.p3))

(slightly faster and avoids the module aliasing problem Dave is concerned
about).

Skip



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 31 20:11:21 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:11:21 -0800
Subject: Simulate socket with files or stdin/stdout
References: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <donn-94CD08.17112131032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <c4fenn$o9h$1 at newshispeed.ch>,
 "Jean-Pierre Bergamin" <james at ractive.ch> wrote:

> We are forced to use a quite old simulation software that's based on
> Modula-2. The idea is now to let this software "talk" to the outside world
> over a TCP/IP network.
> 
> Since the program has no possibility to use sockets or other mechanisms to
> send data over the network we have the idea to let python do the network
> part and let the simu software communicate with the python script in some
> other way:
> 
> One idea is to use stdout and stdin (but I'm not even sure if stdout/in are
> available in the simulation software).
> 
> +------------+  stdout     stdin  +------------+  socket.write
> |            |------------------->|  python-   |----------------
> | Simulation |                    |  script    |
> |            |<-------------------|            |<---------------
> +------------+  stdin      stdout +------------+  socket.read


On UNIX (and MacOS X), it may be easier than this already.
If your application will support the above configuration,
then it will almost for sure talk directly to the socket.
Try this:

import posix
import socket

def bind(port):
   s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
   s.bind(('', port))
   s.listen(1)
   c, a = s.accept()
   print 'connection from', a
   s.close()
   return c

s = bind(2004)
fd = s.fileno()
posix.dup2(fd, 0)
posix.dup2(fd, 1)
posix.close(fd)
posix.execve('/usr/local/bin/similator', ['similator', '-flag1'],
   posix.environ)


I've used posix.this and posix.that, instead of the politically
correct os.this and os.that, to emphasize the fact that this
is not portable to Windows.

If the above works, you'll be able to telnet directly to the
application host, port 2004, and interact with the application.
This obviously needs to be made a little more secure, but as
long as it's just authentication and authorization, that can
happen prior to the execve().

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 28 06:43:28 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:43:28 +0200
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <c46dp1$6be$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Ed Suominen wrote:

> I think it would be cool for my "AutoText" class (see below, hereby GPL'd)
> to be able to tell what subclasses inherit from it and instantiate objects
> for all of those subclasses to implement a "AutoAll" function.. Any ideas?

Not exactly what you asked for, but I have at least ensured that you can
combine AutoUrl and AutoEmphasis (and the yet to write AutoCamelCase) ad
libitum.

> Also, are there any comments on my use of "import" in the parent class?

It does not work the way you access the sre module in AutoUrl:
>>> class A:
...     import sre
...     def accessSre(self):
...             try: sre
...             except NameError: print "sre failed"
...             try: A.sre
...             except NameError: pass
...             else: print "A.sre worked"
...             try: self.sre
...             except NameError: pass
...             else: print "self.sre worked"
...
>>> A().accessSre()
sre failed
A.sre worked
self.sre worked

Frankly, I don't see the benefit of putting a module in a class instead of
the module namespace

> I have all of 3 days experience with OOP and Python, so please bear with
> me.

You are probably unreceptive to the fact that you could put the AutoXXX
functionality into plain old functions then...

> For a short while at least, the code is also available at
> http://rafb.net/paste/results/PyX42087.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed Suominen
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> class AutoText(HTMLgen.RawText):
>     """
>     Implements Wiki-like markups of text, returning text in an RawText
> object
>     to preserve any tags.
>     """
>     import sre
> 
>     def __init__(self, text):
>         HTMLgen.RawText.__init__(self, text=text)
> 
> 
> class AutoUrl(AutoText):
>     """
>     Scans string (or string-like object) for urls and replaces them with
>     lookalike links. Returns the text in an RawText object to preserve any
>     tags. Passes keywords on to href except text and url.
>     """
>     def __init__(self, text='', **kw):
>         text = str(text)
>         for i in ['text', 'url']:

text can never appear in kw:

>>> class B:
...     def __init__(self, text, **kw):
...             pass
...
>>> B("abc", text="def")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __init__() got multiple values for keyword argument 'text'
>>>

>             if i in kw: del kw[i]
>         while 1:
>             m = sre.search('(\s+|\()(http://[a-zA-Z0-9\-\_\.\/\:\?\&]+)',
> text)

I recommend rawstrings like r'(\s+|\()(http://[a-zA-Z0-9\-\_\.\/\:\?\&]+)'
even if it works here without the r prefix.

>             if m is None: break
>             url = m.group(2).rstrip('.?')
>             x = HTMLgen.Href(url=url, text=url, **kw)
>             text = text.replace(url, str(x))
>         AutoText.__init__(self, text)
> 
> 
> class AutoEmphasis(AutoText):
>     """
>     Scans string (or string-like object) for Wiki-type emphasis markups
>     and replaces them with HTML markup. Returns the text in an RawText
>     object to preserve any tags.
>     """
>     def __init__(self, text=''):
>         text = str(text)
>         for xy in [("""''""", 'Emphasis'), ("""'''""", 'Strong')]:
>             while 1:
>                 m = sre.search('\s+'+xy[0]+'([^\'].+?)'+xy[0]+'\s+',text)
>                 if m is None: break
>                 x = eval('HTMLgen.'+xy[1]+'(\''+m.group(1)+'\')')

I think eval() should be spelt evil() so people think twice before resorting
to it.

>                 text = text.replace(xy[0]+m.group(1)+xy[0], str(x))
>         AutoText.__init__(self, text)

Now for my variant:

<auto.py>
import HTMLgen, re

# for the super() mechanism to work we need to inherit from object.
# Just mixing it in seems to work.
class AutoText(HTMLgen.RawText, object):
    def __init__(self, text, **kw):
        HTMLgen.RawText.__init__(self, text=text)

class AutoUrl(AutoText):
    def __init__(self, text, **kw):
        # remove "url" key from kw; not clear why this is necessary
        # an alternative might be
        # assert "url" not in kw
        kw.pop("url", None)
        def replfunc(match):
            url = match.group(2).rstrip('.?')
            return match.group(1) + str(HTMLgen.Href(url=url, text=url,
**kw))

        text = re.sub(r'(\s+|\()(http://[a-zA-Z0-9\-\_\.\/\:\?\&]+)',
replfunc, text)
        super(AutoUrl, self).__init__(text, **kw)


class AutoEmphasis(AutoText):
    def __init__(self, text, **kw):
        for quote, Class in [("""''""", HTMLgen.Emphasis), ("""'''""",
HTMLgen.Strong)]:
            while 1:
                m = re.search(r'\s+('+quote+'([^\'].+?)'+quote+')\s+', text)
                if m is None: break
                x = Class(m.group(2))
                text = text.replace(m.group(1), str(x))
        super(AutoEmphasis, self).__init__(text, **kw)


class AutoAll(AutoEmphasis, AutoUrl):
    pass

if __name__ == "__main__":
    sample = """
    '''foolish''' consciousness is ''the'' hobgobblin of
    little minds, see http://www.hope-they-dont-exist.com
    On ''second'' thought, another http://www.nonexistant-url.com
    might be warranted.
    """
    print AutoEmphasis(sample, target="another")
    print AutoUrl(sample, target="another")
    print AutoAll(sample, target="another")
</auto.py>

Random remarks: 
I've left the regular expressions untouched as you seem to know more about
them than me. You might have a look a re.sub() as a means to replace the 

while 1: 
    # make subsitutions

loops, though. See my AutoUrl variant for an example.
More people will try out your code if you provide a little driver like the

if __name__ == "__main__":
   # demo code

above.
While I like your clear docstrings, they reveal that you have got the
concept of __init__() slightly wrong. It does not return an object (that's
what __new__() is for) but initializes it. Also, you generate AutoXXX
rather than RawText instances.

Peter

PS: auto.py is published under the industrial strength "ample usage
encouraged, so I can sue you later for an even larger pile of dough"
license :-)





From dmq at gain.com  Sun Mar 14 16:51:43 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:51:43 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com><7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost><8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com><mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org><eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com><mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org><fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com><mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:51:13 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>
>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>news:6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3 at 4ax.com...
>> Just to make sure I understand this, I think what you are saying is
>> that if I have a module M1 that defines a value x = 3.1, it will be
>> impossible to keep track of the number of references to M1.x because
>> the object '3.1' may have other references to it from other modules
>> which use the same constant 3.1.  This really does make it impossible
>> to do a complete reload.
>
>Currently, this is possible but not actual for floats, but it is actual, in
>CPython, for some ints and strings.  For a fresh 2.2.1 interpreter
>
>>>> sys.getrefcount(0)
>52
>>>> sys.getrefcount(1)
>50
>>>> sys.getrefcount('a')
>7

I'm amazed how many of these shared references there are.

[snip]
>
>However, there is still the problem of instances and their __class__
>attribute.  One could, I believe (without trying it) give each class in a
>module an __instances__ list that is updated by each call to __init__.
>Then super_reload() could grab the instances lists, do a normal reload, and
>then update the __instances__ attributes of the reloaded classes and the
>__class__ attributes of the instances on the lists.  In other words,
>manually rebind instances to new classes and vice versa.

We need to draw a clean line between what gets updated and what
doesn't.  I would not update instances, because in general, that will
be impossible.  Here is a section from my update on Reload Basics at
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm  I need to provide
my students with a clear explanation, hopefully with sensible
motivation, for what gets updated and what does not.  Comments are
welcome.

Background on Reload
Users often ask why doesn't reload just "do what we expect" and update
everything.  The fundamental problem is that the current state of
objects in a running program can be dependent on the conditions which
existed when the object was created, and those conditions may have
changed.  Say you have in your reloaded module:

class C1:
    def __init__(self, x, y ):
      ...

Say you have an object x1 created from an earlier version of class C1.
The current state of x1 depends on the values of x and y at the time
x1 was created.  Asking reload to "do what we expect" in this case, is
asking to put the object x1 into the state it would be now, had we
made the changes in C1 earlier.

If you are designing a multi-module program, *and* users may need to
reload certain modules, *and* re-starting everything may be
impractical, then you should avoid any direct references to objects
within the modules to be reloaded.  Direct references are created by
statements like 'x = M1.x' or 'from M1 import x'.  Always access these
variables via the fully-qualified names, like M1.x, and you will avoid
leftover references to old objects after a reload.  This won't solve
the object creation problem, but at least it will avoid some surprises
when you re-use the variable x.

--- end of section ---

I *would* like to do something about numbers and strings and other
shared objects not getting updated, because that is going to be hard
to explain.  Maybe we could somehow switch off the generation of
shared objects for modules in a 'debug' mode.

-- Dave



From tom at peresys.co.za  Thu Mar 18 05:26:49 2004
From: tom at peresys.co.za (Tomasz Stochmal)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 02:26:49 -0800
Subject: float problem
Message-ID: <f20ea932.0403180226.16ca2224@posting.google.com>

Hi


I need to write a function that will convert a float number given as
string into long and reverse function of that, example:

'713566671863.6850' becomes 7135666718636850L
7135666718636850L becomes '713566671863.6850'

The problem is that when I call float('713566671863.6850') I get
713566671863.68506 - when rounding to 4 becomes 713566671863.6851

Output becomes 7135666718636851 but it should be 7135666718636850 

Last digit is 1 but should be 0 which is wrong !

How do I do it ?

Regards,
Tom


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 26 18:33:26 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:33:26 -0800
Subject: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F74@opus.amorhq.net>

Lee, Dustin wrote:
> I'm looking for an example of a well designed web
> application used to do sys-admin type functions.

I assume you've seen webmin, but just in case you haven't:

http://www.webmin.com/


FuManChu



From MAN5940 at terra.es  Wed Mar 10 10:37:02 2004
From: MAN5940 at terra.es (Man)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:37:02 GMT
Subject: Large Data with SOAP
Message-ID: <yCG3c.3882024$uj6.11789889@telenews.teleline.es>

Hello, I have a problem with SOAPpy and large data,

ex:

********** SOAP server***********
def SOAPservice(self):
    objListReturn = []
    for i in range(2000):
        objListReturn.append(['user','passwrod','xxxx'])

    return objListReturn

server = SOAPpy.SOAPServer(("localhost", 8080))
server.registerFunction(SOAPservice)
server.serve_forever()

********* Client ******************

import SOAPpy
server = SOAP.SOAPProxy("http://localhost:8080/")
print server.SOAPservice()


*********** Result ****************
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\python23\lib\SocketServer.py", line 222,
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  File "c:\python23\lib\SocketServer.py", line 241,
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "c:\python23\lib\SocketServer.py", line 254,
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_addres
  File "c:\python23\lib\SocketServer.py", line 521,
    self.handle()
  File "c:\python23\lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 32
    self.handle_one_request()
  File "c:\python23\lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 31
    method()
  File "c:\python23\Lib\site-packages\SOAPpy\Server
    self.wfile.write(resp)
  File "c:\python23\lib\socket.py", line 254, in wr
    self.flush()
  File "c:\python23\lib\socket.py", line 241, in fl
    self._sock.sendall(buffer)
error: (10053, 'Software caused connection abort')

Can I help me?

Thanks




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar  4 11:37:42 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:37:42 -0500
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>

"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:du73c8ofx57.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi...
> >>>>> "David" == David M Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> writes:
>
>     David> I would call it *pragmatically* implemented OOP.  It's not
>     David> "proper" as some would see it.
>
> Elaborate?

As I understand it, there are a number of issues.

1. Lack of method polymorphism

2. Use of built-in functions instead of "proper" methods.

3. ability to declare functions and variables at the
module level.

As far as I am concerned, 2 and 3 are so whats.
1 would be nice at times, but there's no way it's
going to happen in a language that doesn't have
static typing.

John Roth


>
> -- 
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb




From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 23 04:14:52 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:14:52 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <2c60f0e0.0403212358.7b821aad@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<2c60f0e0.0403212358.7b821aad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3ov6c$nr2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Richard James wrote:
> Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some 
>>and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language 
>>similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in the 
>>wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish 
>>language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's basic 
>>syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to denote 
>>code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic 
>>and OO features would still be interesting to me (indeed, it would really have 
>>to lose most of the dynamic characteristics in order to make it a compilable 
>>language, which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).  Is 
>>there such a thing?
> 
> 
> Ed, have a look at "The Great Win32 Computer Language Shootout":
> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/
> 
> It benchmarks 51 different scripted and compiled languages to give you
> a feel for relative perfomance:
> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html
> 
> And you can look at the source code of 25 different benchmarks in each
> of the 51 different languages!


Thanks Richard!

This is *very* helpful.




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Tue Mar 30 17:29:06 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 08:19:06 +0950
Subject: Equality and identity
References: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
	<qnk7jx214rz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<3cf1xnagkli.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <slrnc6jub2.1ca.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:12:41 +0200, Marius Bernklev wrote:
> cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) writes:
>
>> In your example, 5 and "hei", for various reasons, are compiled to
>> reference the exact same object, so 'is' returns True. However, no
>> such caching is done with tuples, so (5,2) and (5,2) compile to
>> references to different objects (whose contents are equal).
>
> Thanks!

Also note that this is implementation-dependent, and is not guaranteed
to remain the same for any given type.  If you code such that you are
depending on any particular identity of equal values, your code becomes
brittle and will break when a different optimisation scheme is used in
the Python implementation.

-- 
 \     "It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it."  |
  `\                                                  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 02:09:22 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:09:22 +0200
Subject: Backing up objects in db file
In-Reply-To: <w5ad2xaolr.fsf@random-node.example.org>
References: <w5ad2xaolr.fsf@random-node.example.org>
Message-ID: <4046D622.1070801@zoran.com>

Hello Chris,

> There seem to be a few solutions in this space that nearly work - two
> incomplete YAML implementations, and a similiar maturity XML thing.  Does
> anyone know of a solution that will both work, and is actively maintained ?
Maybe use Zope DB?

HTH.
Miki


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 23:30:32 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:30:32 -0800
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
In-Reply-To: <406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
	<ZrGdnR9BRZRIfvTdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <c4dhna$q5s$2@news.service.uci.edu>

 > Is there a way to tell PyChecker to "skip" a line of source code?
> Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Comment the line just before a PyChecker run.  That's how I get 
PyChecker to skip a line.

  - Josiah


From ark at acm.org  Wed Mar 17 17:04:08 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:04:08 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sX36c.27005$Pa7.692697@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4 at posting.google.com...

> Lastly, using my redefinition of "is", we have the following nice
> property for all objects a and b (mutable or immutable):
>
>  a is b  iff  in any code block not containing "id()" or "is", any
>               (or all) occurrances of a can be replaced by b, with
>               identical results

Interesting idea.  Perhaps you should consider writing a PEP.




From spam at butschek-consult.de  Fri Mar 19 09:02:19 2004
From: spam at butschek-consult.de (Holger Butschek)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:02:19 +0100
Subject: Zope with Python
References: <c3ennc$26ip36$1@ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3euhg$25nbnd$1@ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de>

OK. Thanks very much to you both.

"Holger Butschek" <spam at butschek-consult.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c3ennc$26ip36$1 at ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hy,
>
> I'm using following code.
>
> <dtml-in expr="sqlBestandGetKuerzel(KURZFORM='B',BEREICH='01')">
>   B/<dtml-var RUBRIK>/<dtml-var expr="_.math.int(ANZAHL) + 1">
> </dtml-in>
>
> Whats wrong with it. I'm always getting the following error:
> Error Type: AttributeError
> Error Value: 'math' module has no attribute 'int'
>
> Can anybody help me please.
>
> Bye,
> Holger
>
>




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Mar 24 16:15:51 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:15:51 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <bUm8c.123261$Wa.101889@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Jacek Generowicz:

> "After", is far too late, in my opinion. It's a bit like suggesting to
> a static-typing-for-safety fan, that he should only run his program
> through the compiler _after_ he has finished developing.

   That is actually a view held by some people and has been attempted on
some projects: the programmers do not have access to compilers and deliver
their code to someone else when complete. I think all these projects failed.
There was a well known case here in Australia at IBM where one person snuck
in a compiler and managed to outperform all his colleagues until discovered.

   Neil




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Mar  4 11:11:31 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:11:31 +0100
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
In-Reply-To: <fb2d73eaa645ff575543d383332c4dcf@news.teranews.com>
References: <anmrxqkvslivwfoftnt@python.org>
	<mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list@python.org>
	<fb2d73eaa645ff575543d383332c4dcf@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <20040304161131.GA4970@nl.linux.org>

Dang Griffith wrote:
> Tim Peters wrote:
> >it's not from anyone at python.org, and the zip file attached contains a
> >Windows virus.  But if you run it anyway, I'm sure Guido will be happy to
> >fly to your house and clean up your PC.
> >
> >it's-the-least-he-could-do-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim
> >
> I also received it at my lazytwinacres domain, from my own management
> team, hahaha.  Well, that's what the reply-to said.  Since I manage
> the email accounts, I somehow doubted its validity.  I was surprised
> that the attachment is only about 16k, instead of the usual 134k.

Having 0.102 points in Spambayes, this e-mail actually turned up in my
unsure box, because of the words follow, house, password, pc, please,
usual, viruses, zip, and (even stronger) attachement, security, virus
(even more strong) p.s., account and details. So, because this e-mail
has the same words multiple times it'll probably turn up in the unsure
box as well ;-)

So, let's include some hammy words:

original running unsubscribe fedora-list code import linux def getting
mailing call same already tool someone something gerrit, subject: ...
looks seems says nothing

That should do the trick ;-)

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 04/03 14:55 UTC:
	7.0??C haze mostly clear wind 4.5 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 23:20:57 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:20:57 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <7xllm94p47.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xllm94p47.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c2m58n$fi4$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>from MODULE import NAMES as RENAME searching HOW
>>import NAMES as RENAME from MODULE searching HOW
> 
> I like this.

Great.  On the other hand, import has been changed radically, and the 
only sign is the additional 'from' keyword.

>>Or for backwards compatibility:
>>from HOW.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
>>import HOW.MODULE.NAMES as RENAME
> 
> I don't see any need for this.  Backwards compatibility doesn't
> require adding new stuff.  Just leave those forms the way they were.

It isn't adding new stuff.  Currently, imports are handled like so:
from PACKAGE1.PACKAGE2.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
from PACKAGE1.PACKAGE2 import MODULE as RENAME

The only difference is that HOW is either the classic 
PACKAGE1.PACKAGE2.(etc) or the new -<INTEGER>.PACKAGE1.(etc)

The trick is that all old import statements will still work, but one can 
use old-style (familliar) syntax and still gain the use of relative imports.


> Ugh!  What's wrong with ../sibling_package or
> ../../uncle_package/cousin_package instead of the -1,-2 stuff?

You should remember that what I gave was a suggestion.  Personally, I 
don't like ../../../(etc) because I am:
1. lazy
2. sick of seeing paths in language include/import statements
3. happy to re-use the currently used idea of namespaces and '.' notation

> I think it's ok to use slashes.

In reality, it is not ok to use slashes.  If you pay attention to the 
posts here, you'll notice the incidence of unescaped backslashes from 
users on Windows.  In such a case, we would have 3 options:
1. Disable backslash escaping on during imports (removing the 
consistancy of backslash escaping everywhere else).
2. Leave in backslash escaping (requiring double backslashes for all 
relative imports, and wait for the posts to c.l.py about why relative 
imports don't work on Windows).
3. Only allow forward slashes.

I think all three options suck ass, which is why I extended Stephen's 
posted VMS-like syntax, which makes stepping up one or five additional 
or fewer levels arbitrarily easy.  I know I would prefer to change a 
number than to include a series of additional ../.

  - Josiah


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 31 13:39:41 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:39:41 -0800
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.155.1080705831.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-372F01.10394131032004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.155.1080705831.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 Adelein and Jeremy <adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com> wrote:

[... re "while line:" ]

> Yes, but I can't seem to get it through my thick skull that Python
> was designed well enough to allow me to use datatypes sensibly as
> booleans.

I guess that's true (or rather, True), but since you seem to
be interested in wringing all the insight you can out of this,
you might be interested in a classic point of view about datatypes
and booleans.  Laura Creighton articulated something like a
`booleans considered harmful' position in a classic series of
posts 2 years ago, when explicit Boolean values were initially
proposed for Python.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1017755045.4308.python-list%
40python.org&output=gplain,
or if you'd like to see the whole thread, search comp.lang.python
for "PEP 285: Adding a bool type"

Her argument didn't carry, but it's interesting and in my opinion
very right on.

...
> So if I am understanding correctly, I want to do the following:
> 
> try:
>     fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
> except IOError:
>     sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)
> 
> Out of curiosity, what else could the error be mapped to, and how
> does that work, or where can I go to read up on such issues? Also, in
> this particular case, where I am simply exiting the program with an
> error message, could the error possibly be mapped to anything else,
> and if so, would it really matter?

I'm not sure I follow the mapping notion you're asking about,
so I'm just going to volunteer some stuff about exceptions.
Exceptions are the trickiest thing.  They naturally tend to be
unpredictable, and it's annoying to find out that your exception
handler has run into an exception itself while trying to process
the exception data it gets.  With that caveat in mind, IOError
carries more useful information than average.  For example, if
you're not satisfied with its str() coercion -

   try:
       fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
   except IOError, v:
       print v

[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '.fortunes'

... you can emulate the typical perror() style

       print '%s: %s' % (v.filename, v.strerror)

.fortunes: No such file or directory

You can't assume that just any exception you may get will have
a strerror attribute, most won't.  You can't assume that every
exception of a particular type will have the same number of
elements in its args attribute, etc.  So you really have to
approach an exception value with a long stick, then gloves and
safety glasses, but on the bright side you can squeeze useful
data out of them.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ods at strana.ru  Fri Mar 12 10:48:35 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:48:35 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <16465.50974.577405.950902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403121835020.27307-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Skip Montanaro wrote:

SM> Given Python's current object model it would be an
SM> interesting challenge to
SM> write a "super reload" which could identify all the objects
SM> created as a
SM> side effect of importing a module and for those with
SM> multiple references,
SM> locate those other references by traversing the known object
SM> spaces, then
SM> perform the import and finally rebind the references found
SM> in the first
SM> step.  I thought I saw something like this posted in a
SM> previous thread on
SM> this subject.

Is it possible?  How to handle the following cases:

module.var = new_value
adict = {module.var: value}
atuple = (module.var,)

module.var = someobj = new_value  # now they refer to the same
                                  # object

module.var = 0 # 0, 1 etc. are always shared. We cannot test
someobj = 0    # where it came from

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 09:25:16 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:25:16 +0900
Subject: embedding python with numarray
Message-ID: <4062EBCC.6030805@hotmail.com>

Using Python 2.3.3,
trying to embed python with numarray,
my C++ application crashes (segmentation fault) at "import_libnumarray()",
(I c&p the macro, its within the macro at:
PyObject *module =
PyImport_ImportModule("numarray.libnumarray");
)

when I:

    1.
       initalize python and numarray like:
    ...
       Py_Initialize();
       import_libnumarray();
    ...

    2 .
       load another module like:

         PyObject* pModule = PyImport_Import(pName);


    3.
    call Py_Finalize()
    and do 1. again.

The palce where it crashes is:
Objects/typeobject.c
line 3004:
if (basebase->tp_as_sequence == NULL)


If I call import_libnumarray() only once (ie calling Py_Initialize()
without import_libnumarray() the second time,
I cannot use numarray:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/gdl/gdl/test.py", line 5, in testfun
     print a
   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/numarray/numarraycore.py", line 
660, in __str__
     return array_str(self)
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable


Any suggestions?
How can numarray be restarted properly after a Py_Finalize() ?
Thanks,
marc



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Mar  8 10:28:43 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:28:43 +0100
Subject: two flies in one hit: working around goto and grid point generation
Message-ID: <404c91d2$0$144$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

I've been trying to avoid posting this code because it enables
continuations alike coding and can be used for state machines. The
applications are endless and since I have no idea how to wrap this
into a reversible iterator with state repositioning and storing states
as integers I thought it too soon to post about it.

The idea is very simple but I'm having problems with the terminology
and the concepts that are involved. However this group is constantly
knocking on my door with threads like "generating points on a grid -
efficiently" or "Working around a lack of 'goto' in python" so I
thought it best to just throw it in the ring and let others decide
about how to get a grip on it.

The code is about "generating all n-tuples" as described by Knuth in
his new (unpublished ?) book, but now using different ranges for each
position. This way one could recode nested loops as a single loop,
reversely iterate nested loops, store nested loop positions ("states")
as integers and set a nested loop to a specific state, generate points
on a grid of differently sized axes and what else.

Ok, enough speculations and hype, below is some code, I hope someone
sees the applicability of the concept and can turn it into a fast
generator class that could be used as a programmable state machine.

Yes, I've been posting this code before, but now I see the other
possibilities of it. Please tell me if I'm onto something or just
hallucinating or reinventing the wheel. FWIW it has a lot in common
with ideas that are used in Numerical Python.

Anton

def rank(L,bases):
    res,multiplier = 0,1
    for x,b in zip(L[::-1],bases[::-1]):
        res += x*multiplier
        multiplier *= b
    return res

def unrank(d,bases):
    res = []
    for b in bases[::-1]:
        d,m = divmod(d,b)
        res.append(m)
    return res[::-1]

def test():
    bases = [4,3,2]
    n = reduce(lambda x,y: x*y,bases)
    for i in range(n):
        x = unrank(i,bases)
        print i,x
        assert i == rank(x,bases)

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

output:

0 [0, 0, 0]
1 [0, 0, 1]
2 [0, 1, 0]
3 [0, 1, 1]
4 [0, 2, 0]
5 [0, 2, 1]
6 [1, 0, 0]
7 [1, 0, 1]
8 [1, 1, 0]
9 [1, 1, 1]
10 [1, 2, 0]
11 [1, 2, 1]
12 [2, 0, 0]
13 [2, 0, 1]
14 [2, 1, 0]
15 [2, 1, 1]
16 [2, 2, 0]
17 [2, 2, 1]
18 [3, 0, 0]
19 [3, 0, 1]
20 [3, 1, 0]
21 [3, 1, 1]
22 [3, 2, 0]
23 [3, 2, 1]




From bla at libero.it  Thu Mar 18 00:15:44 2004
From: bla at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:15:44 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:22:26 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:

>> ------
>> >>> '1' > 1
>> True
>> ------

> Yes, with the exception of complex numbers, doing comparisons between
> objects of different types is valid.  The ordering is guaranteed to be
> consistent on a particular implementation (e.g., here strings are
> considered greater than ints). ... 

This is all what i wanted to know . 
Even if i can't see it's utility , at least
for the behaviour of the comparison between strings
and numbers with every string considered greater of every int .


>> -----------------------------
>> >>>'1'.__gt__.__doc__
>> 'x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y'
>> -----------------------------
> 
> I don't understand what bearing this snippet has on the previous two.

Here i was looking for what you told me , so something like :
x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y if x and y are numeric object , 
every string is greater than every number (ErrorObject , 
user define class ... ??) ... 
... may be one day i could add it myself ... ;)

Thank you very much for you help .

Bye .


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 14 14:37:36 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:37:36 -0600
Subject: creating array of python objects
In-Reply-To: <slrnc594jv.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
References: <slrnc594jv.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <20040314193736.GD7397@unpythonic.net>

I don't believe that numarray supports arrays of Python objects.
The list of Numarray types doesn't list them:
http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/numarray-0.9.html/node21.html#tab:type-specifiers

This is the meaning of the "not a numeric type" message.

Using numpy, you can create an array of PyObjects where each entry is a
reference to the same cell object:
    >>> class cell:
    ...     def setrow(self,row):
    ...         self.row = row
    ...     def setcol(self,col):
    ...         self.col = col
    ... 
    >>> empcell = cell()
    >>> a = Numeric.reshape([empcell]*4, (2,2))
    >>> a[0][0].setrow(10)
    >>> a[1][1].row         # because they are the same object
    10
If you want distinct objects, you'll have to use
    >>> a = Numeric.reshape([cell() for i in range(4)], (2,2))

Jeff



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar  2 14:02:33 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:02:33 -0000
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce at news.free.fr>,
Alex <alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi
>I would like to create a variable (a string) in 'for' statement with a name
>linked to the for value.
>Like this:
>for y in range(nbSujets):
>    name + str(y) = 'abc'
>
>But it doesn't work with Python.... I read the official documentation but I
>was not able to find infos about this..
>How to make this works please?
			.
			.
			.
While you can do that, you shouldn't.  Unless
there are requirements you haven't explained,
you're better off exploiting a dictionary:

  name = {}
  for y in range(nbSujects):
      name[y] = 'abc'
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 01:49:24 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:49:24 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <406A5892.7030809@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<406A5892.7030809@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <c4dpro$5vg$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>> The trick with wxPython and wxWindows docs is that the entirety of 
>> wxWindows is available to wxPython, through (on the most part) 
>> identical class and function calls.  In those cases when there are 
>> differences, the differences are noted.
>>
>> For those who need more documentation, usually, example code is as 
>> good documentation as you'd find.  For that, there is the wxPython demo.
>>
>> In general, Robin Dunn is the only person who is maintaining wxPython, 
>> and I am glad that he's spending his time with wxPython, rather than 
>> the documentation.
>>
>> If you are having problems understanding the wxWidgets documentation, 
>> learning a bit of C (not much, just a bit) will likely go a /long/ way 
>> towards understanding the calling conventions.
> 
> 
> Very true, but wxPython still is horribly documented. Documentation of 
> the C version of something is really not very friendly especially to new 
> Python programmers. I for one would be glad to buy a book about wxPython 
> if someone a lot more experienced than myself cared to write such a 
> book. I do know C but I still find working from the wxWindows docs 
> frustrating with a lot of trial and error required.

I learned Python a year after I learned C and C++ in undergrad. 
Technically I've known C/C++ longer, but I know (and use) Python far 
better.  Maybe it was that year of only really knowing C and C++ that 
makes the difference, but I've never had issue with the wxWidgets 
documentation.

While I prefer Python's name with description later, having the type of 
input and output from the function call given in the function definition 
is convenient.  Programming with a language that is static typed may be 
a pain in the ass, but it is damn convenient when you are looking at 
documentation.  Even though wxWidgets class definitions can have huge 
initialization argument lists, generally you can be sure of what you are 
supposed to pass into something, and what you can expect in return.


  - Josiah


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 15:10:30 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <roy-2A7F76.07570527032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2A7F76.07570527032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c44n9l$ssh$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>What I found interesting was:
>> - the stackless-ness
> 
> What does stacklessness do for me as an application programmer?

Head to the main stackless Python page to find out what it can do for 
you.  I don't know how much of this is applicable to Protheon, but it 
should give you some idea:
http://www.stackless.com/

  - Josiah


From glingl at aon.at  Mon Mar 22 12:58:25 2004
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:58:25 +0100
Subject: IDLE and turtle
In-Reply-To: <d524bdb3.0403211505.c2ff2db@posting.google.com>
References: <d524bdb3.0403211505.c2ff2db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405F2941.8070807@aon.at>



dbrown2 at yahoo.com schrieb:
> I typically use IDLE for editing and debug.  On Windows at least, IDLE
> and the standard turtle graphics module do not mix.  I think both use
> Tkinter.
> 
> For now I use IPython and Jedit when using the turtle module but it's
> not a great solution for me.  Is there any known work-around to use
> turtle with IDLE?  If not is there a planned fix for the problem.  I
> find turtle is a convenient way to do simple graphics without having
> to install external modules or deal with event handlers or windowing
> details.
> 
> -- David

With Python 2.2 and IDLE 0.8 it was no problem to use turtle.py (and
Tkinter in general) interactively, because tha application and IDLE
itself ran in the same process (using the same mainloop()).

As this turned out to be a problem when writing programs of some
complextiy the decision was made to change the way IDLE runs
programs, namely in their own processes with their own namespaces.

*Un*fortunately this proved to be a problem for interactively using
and exploring Tkinter.

*Fortunately* there is a way to use the new IDLE 1.0 exactly the
same way as the old IDLE 0.8: to use it with the -n option.

Under Windows e. g. you have to change the link which calls IDLE as
follows (or similar):

C:\Python23\pythonw.exe "C:\Python23\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw " -n

This makes IDLE starting up without subprocesses, which is indicated
by the message

IDLE 1.0.2      ==== No Subprocess ====
 >>>

in the Shell window. This way you can execute turtle graphics commands
immediately and also explore and construct GUIs with Tkinter interactively.

But keep in mind, that this makes program development more error prone.
Normally this does not matter when developing tiny turtle graphics
programs.

I use to use two versions of IDLE (and I have two coresponding icons
on my desktop). The one with the -n - option for interactive explorations,
the other one, configured like it comes out of the box, for developing
more complex programs.

HTH, Gregor


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar  7 21:38:01 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:38:01 -0500
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104nn8eee2nv6a2@news.supernews.com>


"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list at python.org...
> This is just a trial balloon. It isn't even in proper PEP format yet.
> Don't take it too personally!

Why would I take it personally? [grin]

It's an interesting proposal. As far as I'm concerned, the
print statement has two uses:

1. It's a handy way of getting output for debugging, and
2. It's a handy way of producing output for quick,
 one-off scripts.

Also AFAIAC, it has no utility in larger programs; the
<file>.write() method is more than adequate and
provides much better control for normal output;
debug output is better served by the logging module.

The only purpose I can see for a functional form
of the print statement is in your extension suggestion:
a function that would return its (single) parameter
while at the same time printing it out. This could be
quite useful in debugging if you want to provide a
very precise probe without having to rewrite a
statement to get a print in the appropriate place.

I'd suggest putting together a module with your
proposed show() function and publicizing it.

Print is definitely quirky, and I wouldn't be sorry
to see it go.

John Roth





From p at trick.lu  Wed Mar  3 16:09:53 2004
From: p at trick.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:09:53 +0100
Subject: Twisted/Woven threading?
References: <c1u2br$v6k$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <v8ic40d0e343k0lr1p564884o2s01kr854@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 02:07:04 +0100, Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr>
wrote:

>I've experimented with a simple web application made with woven and 
>stated by twistd from a .tap file, on a Win32. It seems that the web 
>server started that way is not multitasked/multithreaded and that one 
>request that requires long processing (e.g. a factory that produces a 
>long result fetched from a database) makes the server totaly unresponsive.
>
>Is that normal? What can I do to make it multithreaded?
>

Twisted is by default singlethreaded. If you want multithreading, you
need to arrange that yourself and write the code for your web server.

BTW, Woven is depreciated for new developements and will be replaced by
Newov (new woven).

-pu
--
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/


From bucknuggets at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 18:39:50 2004
From: bucknuggets at yahoo.com (Buck Nuggets)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 15:39:50 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
> for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
> Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
> other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
> 25?

In case you are interested in alternatives approaches...here's how I
typically do this:

step 1: sort the file using a separate sort utility (unix sort, cygwin
sort, etc)

step 2: have a python program read in rows, 
        compare each row to the prior,
        write out only one row for each set

ks


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Tue Mar  2 18:51:38 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:51:38 -0300 (ART)
Subject: word search
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040302234226.027d8eb0@pop.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <20040302235138.88467.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>


I think you will have to use regular expressions. Fortunately, in 
your particular case the regular expression is not a very complicated
one...

=======================================
import re

p = re.compile('.*[^a-zA-Z0-9]cow[^a-zA-Z0-9].*', re.IGNORECASE)

test = ' cow ', '_cow_', '(cow)',' -cow, ', '_cOw-', 'coward'

for t in test:
  if p.match(t):
    print '"cow" is in "%s"' % t
  else:
    print '"cow" is _NOT_ in "%s"' % t

=======================================

result:

"cow" is in " cow "
"cow" is in "_cow_"
"cow" is in "(cow)"
"cow" is in " -cow, "
"cow" is in "_cOw-"
"cow" is _NOT_ in "coward"

You might want to read http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/

Aloysio

 --- Andrea Cova <amcova at fastwebnet.it> escreveu: 
> Hi,
> i'm trying to write a program that finds single words that works like
> this:
> i'd like to find a word, the exact word, without making mistakes
> like, when 
> i'm looking for 'cow', he tells me he found it in 'coward'.
> I have an idea how to do this in C, but i guess it would be less
> complicate 
> in python.
> The findall() function would be ok, but i need to make some
> modifications 
> like this one:
> I want the program to find matches only when the word isn't in the
> middle 
> of other letters. Other kinds of chars instead are accepted. (for
> instance: 
> ' cow ', '_cow_', '(cow)',' -cow, ' are right matches).
> 
> 
> I need this for a program that does the following: i've got a list of
> song 
> titles, saved in a txt file for example, and a list of filenames in a
> 
> directory (mp3 files), and for each song title i want to find the
> best 
> match in the filenames.
> Then when all the matches are done I modify the mp3 files' tags
> according 
> to the information in the txt file.
> I know there are windows programs to do this, but they don't have
> functions 
> like taking a text list and find the corresponding mp3 on their own.
> 
> And two little questions:
> 
> 1-i read in the manuals that if i want "search()" to ignore the case,
> i 
> have to put the flag I. I can't get this to work. Could you write me
> an 
> example of how to write this? I
> 2-how can i make also "findall()" be case UNsensitive?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Mar 13 12:53:27 2004
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:53:27 -0800
Subject: A question about Python's  API
Message-ID: <200403130953.27476.gherron@islandtraining.com>

Hello python-list,

A student trying to embed Python into a game engine seems to have
uncovered the following oversight of Python's API,

There is a function named Py_CompileString which produces a code
object from a string, but we can't find a a function in the published
API to execute that code object.

There is a function named PyEval_EvalCode which looks like the right
thing to use, but it's not part of the published API, and it's
definition is not included when one #include's Python.h.
Nevertheless, I've suggested that he #include eval.h and try calling
the function to see if it is what he wants.

So ...  Is this our oversight, and there really is something in the
API to execute the code object returned by Py_CompileString, or should
the API be enhanced to include PyEval_EvalCode or something similar?

Thanks,

Gary Herron








From sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu  Thu Mar 18 12:43:19 2004
From: sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu (Jason)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 09:43:19 -0800
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
Message-ID: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>

Hey,

I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
(1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
REALLY slow.

Basically, you specify two directed line segments in the coordinate
system of a raster image and use the difference between those two
lines to transform the image.

for a 400 x 600 image, python takes about 30 seconds to run the
algorithm. This seems way to slow - I would expect it to run in a
matter of a few seconds. Here's the code: what should I do to speed
things up? I know I'm going to get a "do it in C/make a C extension"
but that defeats the purpose: I'd like to know what Python can do
here.

Thanks for your help.

from Tkinter import *
import Image
import ImageTk
from sys import exit
from math import sqrt

class Point:
# A Point in the plane
    def __init__(self, int1, int2):
    # Constructor
        self.x = float(int1)
        self.y = float(int2)
    def __add__(self, other):
    # Add two points
        return Point(self.x + other.x, self.y + other.y)
    def __sub__(self, other):
    # Sub two points
        return Point(self.x - other.x, self.y - other.y)
    def __mul__(self, other):
    # Either mult by a constant or dot product
        if type(other) == float or type(other) == int:
            return Point(self.x*other, self.y*other)
        else:
            return self.x*other.x + self.y*other.y
    def __div__(self,other):
    # division by a constant
        if type(other) == float or type(other) == int:
            return Point(self.x/other, self.y/other)
    def __rmul__(self, other):
    # multiplication by a constant
        return Point(self.x*other, self.y*other)
    def __rdiv__(self, other):
    # division by a constant
        return Point(other/self.x, other/self.y)
    def __str__(self):
    # printing represenation
        return '(%s, %s)' % (self.x, self.y)
    def length(self):
    # regular length
        return sqrt(pow(self.x, 2) + pow(self.y, 2))
    def perpindicular(self):
    # 90 deg rotation 
        return Point(self.y, -self.x)
    def to_tuple(self):
    # makes a tuple of ints
        return (int(self.x), int(self.y))
    

class WarpLine:
# The lines used to warp the image
    def __init__(self, x0, y0, x1, y1, id):
    # Constructor - just two points - id not used yet.
        self.id = 0
        self.point1 = Point(x0, y0)
        self.point2 = Point(x1, y1)
    def __str__(self):
    # Printing
        return '%s->%s' % (self.point1, self.point2)
    def length(self):
    # Segment length
        return sqrt(pow(self.point2.x-self.point1.x, 2) +
pow(self.point2.y-self.point1.y, 2))
    def getUV(self, point):
    # v = shortest distance of  point to line
    # u = the parameterization of the closest point from v
        diff = (self.point2 - self.point1)
        u = ((point - self.point1) * diff) / (diff * diff)
            
        v = ((point - self.point1) * diff.perpindicular()) / sqrt(diff
* diff)

        return u, v
    def transformPoint(self, line, point):
    # finds transform of point based on self and line
        diff = (line.point2 - line.point1)
        u, v = self.getUV(point)
        return line.point1 + u * diff  + (v * diff.perpindicular()) /
sqrt(diff * diff)

class Picture:
    # A simple image class
    def __init__(self, file):
    # Load up an image
        self.data = Image.open(file)
    def in_bounds(self, pt):
    # is point in our bounds?
        if pt.x < 0 or pt.y < 0 or pt.x > self.data.size[0] - 1 or
pt.y > self.data.size[1] - 1:
            return 0
        else:
            return 1
    def warp(self, source, line1, line2):
    # Do transformPoint on each pixel, save results
    # This is the slow part of the program
        dest = list(self.data.getdata())
        src = source.data.getdata()
        for x in range(0, self.data.size[0] - 1):
            for y in range(0, self.data.size[1] - 1):
                xy = line1.transformPoint(line2,
Point(x,y)).to_tuple()
     
                if self.in_bounds(Point(xy[0], xy[1])):
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = src[xy[0] +
xy[1]*self.data.size[0]]
                    
                else:
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = 0
                    
        self.data.putdata(dest)
    def show(self):
    # show the image
        root = Tk()
        canvas = Canvas(root, width=self.data.size[0],
height=self.data.size[1])
        canvas.pack()
        photo = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.data)
        disp = canvas.create_image(0, 0, anchor=NW, image=photo)
        mainloop()


From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Wed Mar 10 19:26:27 2004
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:26:27 -0700
Subject: Creating frames in threads
References: <404fa386$1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <404fb230$1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

I'm having trouble in another thread with scroll bars and threads on
Windows, and the problem in this newsgroup thread ALSO seems to be a
Windows(XP) Python 2.3.3-only problem.  The same program on Linux and
Solaris is fine.

???

"Bob Greschke" <bob at passcal.nmt.edu> wrote in message
news:404fa386$1_6 at corp.newsgroups.com...
> I have a program that creates one or more frames with
>
>    TF = TopLevel(Root)
>
> talks to some equipment, calculates some stuff, draws a graph on a canvas
in
> the frame, then exits.  The frame/s goes with the thread and disappears
when
> the thread is finished -- which I guess makes sense.  Is there a way to
keep
> those frames around after the thread is gone?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From spam_bait101 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 14:51:24 2004
From: spam_bait101 at yahoo.com (sb)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 11:51:24 -0800
Subject: vim & python
Message-ID: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>

Hello

I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and
about editing python with vim.


I can install vim with python scripting support, but I can not find
docs, examples or tutorials about scripting vim using python anywhere
with google.


Is it possible to enable "calltips" while editing python documents
with vim? (BTW I've read somewhere that pyalamode was created
specifically because someone wanted "calltips" not just in the
interpreter, but in the editor as well. FWIW, VC++ has had calltips
for many years. However, I can not get those calltips to work in
pyalamode either. So I'm anxious to find any editor for python that
has calltips, but I would prefer it to be vim though)


I've heard the biggest python gurus use vim. *Please* post some
screenshots of you in action - some interesting things like
   - calltips, 
   - editor-shell interaction
   - reference manual invocation by keyword from within the editor
   - object browser, 
   - etc. 
Or are you using vim just like C coders do?


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 19 21:55:48 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:55:48 -0700
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<ad052e5c.0403181324.31ea8a36@posting.google.com>
	<c3d4r8$gho$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<ad052e5c.0403191252.45d5f880@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3hcn509kls47kujlb6lgsdvhshudsho5l7@4ax.com>

On 19 Mar 2004 12:52:08 -0800, danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:

>Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3d4r8$gho$2 at news.service.uci.edu>...
>> > One way to avoid this problem is to have an explicit scope-creating
>> > construct instead.
>> > 
>> > def foo(a):
>> >    scope outer:
>> >       a = 3
>> >       scope inner:
>> >          a = 4
>> >          print a            # prints 4
>> >          print outer.a      # prints 3
>> >          print foo.a        # prints the function parameter
>> >       print a               # inner.a is out of scope, so prints 3
>> >       foo.b = 5             # Creates a new function-scope variable.
>> >    print b                  # prints 5
>> 
>> Ick.  Thank god Python doesn't seem to be heading in this direction.
>
>I agree.  Just because this was my idea doesn't mean I have to like it ;-)
>
>I'm satified with the scope rules the way they are, except for list comprehensions.

There is one small change I would make.  Nested scopes should apply to
*any* nested code, including nested classes.  This would make the
rules much simpler and easy to teach.

-- Dave



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 29 08:42:59 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:42:59 -0500
Subject: OT: FTP sync program?
In-Reply-To: <c493c0$a6i$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
References: <c493c0$a6i$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <20040329134259.GE26081@cerberus>

* Miki Tebeka (miki.tebeka at zoran.com) wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking for a *free* program to synchronize files over ftp (like rsync).
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Miki
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Try emirror.  http://eclipt.uni-klu.ac.at/emirror.php  It may do what you need
it to do.

Jeremy



From jeder at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 28 16:27:55 2004
From: jeder at earthlink.net (Ryan Spencer)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:27:55 GMT
Subject: Python installing on Debian
References: <mailman.12.1080493190.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.28.21.27.53.244061@earthlink.net>

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:59:45 +0000, Guillaume Gervais wrote:

> Hello there,
> 
> I'm using Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable (sarge) as an operating system.  
> About a month ago, I installed python 2.3 on my machine, from the sources.
> 
> And it worked perfectly.  But about 3 weeks ago, I made a update of the 
> packages list (apt-get update) followed by a apt-get dist-upgrade.  I short, 
> I upgraded Debian.
> 
> But among the ugraded packages was python2.3.  And it doesn't seem to 
> install properly.  Here is the error message (it is in french, since my 
> mother tongue is french...) :
> 
> # apt-get install package
> [...]
> Param?trage de python2.3 (2.3.3-6) ...
> Compiling python modules in /usr/lib/python2.3 ...
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> SyntaxError: ('future feature rested_snopes is not defined',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
> file',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
> file',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
> file',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
> file',)
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/test/badsyntax_nocaret.py", line 2
>     [x for x in x] = x
> SyntaxError: can't assign to list comprehension
> 
> dpkg : erreur de traitement de python2.3 (--configure) :
> le sous-processus post-installation script a retourn? une erreur de sortie 
> d'?tat 1
> Des erreurs ont ?t? rencontr?es pendant l'ex?cution :
> python2.3
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> 
> 
> But there are some python programs I am using that works fine.  But this 
> line :
> 
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> 
> appears very often when I run python programs (but the program itself works 
> fine).
> 
> When using apt-get, the package I am installing installs fine, same thing 
> when I am removing a program, but the error message always appears at the 
> end, and it is very annoying.
> 
> Can someone help me out?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> 
> <html><DIV>
> <DIV>
> <DIV>
> <DIV>
> <DIV>Guillaume Gervais, </DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>
> <DIV><IMG height=78 
> src="http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/logo/0.0/logomed.128.png" 
> width=182></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></html>
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis !  
> http://messenger.fr.msn.ca/

Hello there,

In unstable, it isn't uncommon for packages to become broken, which you
might know by now, but just in case you didn't. It might be that the
python2.3 package has grown broken. Try 'apt-get update' and 'apt-get
install python2.3' to more specifically trace the problem.

You say you compiled python2.3 from source, right? Is it neccesary that
you have both the debian version and the source? I would say that if the
source compilation is working, it would be more preferable to have that
than deal with the hassle of the possibly broken python2.3 package in
unstable. 

I've used testing, unstable, and now finally stable. I know that in both
testing and unstable there are bound to be times when things you download
won't work. You could build your own dpkg of the source compilation you
did and submit it to the unstable release if you'd like.

If you didn't install it from online source code, I'm sure you should be
able to, and then follow through with the advise above.

Of course, being in stable now I can't fully check the unstable problem,
but, you could repost this question in the linux.debian.user newsgroup for
further information. Being unable to read french, I'm unsure if I can
fully understand the little tidbits of the error messages, as well.

Hope this helps so far,
~Ryan


From rabbits77 at bigmailbox.net  Sat Mar 13 13:07:54 2004
From: rabbits77 at bigmailbox.net (rabbits77)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 10:07:54 -0800
Subject: need optimizing help
Message-ID: <68aadb4a.0403131007.8eeeb26@posting.google.com>

I have a dictionary with a very very large(possibly millions) of
key/value pairs.
The key is a tuple that looks like (id,date)
What is the fastest way to get out all of the values that match any
key given that they individual key elements are coming from two
seperate lists?
The approach of
for id in IDS:
    for date in dates:
        data=myDict[(id,date)]

seems to just take too long. Is there a speedier, more pythonic, way
of doing this? Any help speeding this up would be much appreciated!!


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:30:37 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:30:37 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>	<mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <406B549D.8010202@mlug.missouri.edu>


> Maybe just start a wiki based on the current documentation? It 
> shouldn't be too difficult, should it?

I really don't know. It'd help most if it was actually linked to from 
Python.org and if the doc maintaners actually read the wiki for ideas. I 
believe PHP's docs are written in Docbook and there is actually a team 
that monitors the comments (as well as other things) and keeps them up 
to date. Are Python's docs also in Docbook? If so, you could easily make 
a tool that periodically reset the wiki and imported the current docs. 
It wouldn't be much use if the wiki didn't reference a current copy of 
the docs.



From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Wed Mar 10 21:59:12 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:59:12 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <RBQ3c.37420$6y1.1199407@news20.bellglobal.com>

  > Wouldn't it be nice, for example, if instead of special keywords like
> 'lambda' and 'yield', we had used '@(args)' and '@return'.  ( No, I'm
> not advocating we go back and change what has been done.)  In both
> these cases, we had a well-established syntax that needed a slight
> variation.  
> 

It would not be nice for me either.  I *much* prefer the explicit way of 
Python using explicit keywords than cryptic one.  And besides, if typing 
is an issue, then an editor can be programmed to extend the words as you 
type or insert the keywords.

I really don't see what benefit it would do to Python which is easy to 
learn as it is.

IMHO, I'd stay away from these 'nice' (?) tricks.

Sorry... I do like the zen of the current Python.

Pierre Rouleau




From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Mon Mar  8 03:48:24 2004
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:48:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Game programming and threads problem - 1 attachment
References: <6e4d5c3f5465ae171744098d1444ebac@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4ocmt.nf0.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:57:53 GMT, westlord <westlord at dev.null.net> wrote:
> Hello.  I have written a game much like the TypingCommand of old.  It is
> a cross between a typing game and missle command.  Words come down from
> the top of the screen and head toward your cities at the bottom. 

Nice idea.

> The problem is that while the thread starts, it does not update.  What
> the thread does depends on the machine I run it on.  Some machines if

Having 1 thread for 1 word feels a bit expensive to me, in addition you
get a number of concurrency problems that you have to deal with.

> you move around the window the game is in, the thread will work, kind
> of.  On other machines, if you hold down a key, the thread will work. 
> So, what's the problem? 

You didn.t mention whether you use operating-system threads or Python
threads, nor what operating system and/or Python versions runs at
different machines.
It sounds to me that you are struggling with operating-system (or
window-system) specific issues.
I don't know enough about threads to help you with this.

> Couple of notes: Yes, I know there's probably a better way of doing
> this but I don't know of one.  If you can educate me, it would be
> appreciated.  Also, I have attached the code to make thing's easier

If I were in your shoes, I would probably drop threading, and go for
having 1 component/thread that handles all words.  (ie it has a list of words
with their position, and after waiting a while, it updates and redraws
all the words).  This may be better managable.

PS I don't know what graphic system you use, but pygame may be useful to
   you.

Albert


From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Mar 30 01:21:53 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:21:53 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: QuickTimeTcl and Python/Tkinter crash
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403300906110.29612@sampo.csc.fi>
References: <mailman.42.1080555269.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<a4638b9b.0403291753.4a490a08@posting.google.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0403300906110.29612@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403300914060.29612@sampo.csc.fi>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> ("""The instruction at "0x6697c820" referenced memory at "0x01681f1c".
> The memory could not be "written". Click on OK to terminate the
> program""")

I might add that the error message that I get when Python crashes always
contains those same memory positions, i.e. it is allways an instruction at
"0x6697c820" that references memory at "0x01681f1c". This might not make a
difference though.

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi






From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 14:56:10 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 11:56:10 -0800
Subject: Random Number
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403271156.787706e5@posting.google.com>

Hi 
I am generating a random number using
random.randint(1,10000000000)
Whats the possibility that the numbers generated will be same when
generated by 100 users at the same time?
Whats the best method to generate random numbers so that they are most
likely unique??
Thanks


From jon_couchman at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 09:55:40 2004
From: jon_couchman at hotmail.com (jon c)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:55:40 +0000
Subject: is perl better?
Message-ID: <Law11-F111WTgZu6WY9000011a3@hotmail.com>

Ok, so here's the deal.

some idoit wrote a perl script that executes a java program using the system 
command.

the operating system was windows

I decided to port the evil perl to lovely python.

All seemed fine, except when I run I find that the character string is too 
long?

(a very long class path is parsed to the java executable)

the identical command can be run by perls system call.

why does perl work and not python?

_________________________________________________________________
It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger




From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 10:36:27 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:36:27 +0100
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
	<4062EF99.1050802@zope.com>
	<fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net> <4062F88C.40200@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3c7xaqh0.fsf@python.net>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:
>>>>    # Define an interface.
>>>>    ICustomer = Interface(class):
>>>>        def get_id():
>>>>            """Return the customer ID"""
>>>
>>>Today, this would be written as:
>>>
>>>     class ICustomer:
>>>         def get_id():
>>>             """Return the customer ID"""
>>>     ICustomer = Interface(ICustomer)
>> With PEP 318 in place, it would be written as:
>>       class ICustomer [Interface]:
>>           def get_id():
>>               """Return the customer ID"""
>> Hm.
>> I like the third way best.  Why? The 'Interface(class)' idiom
>> confuses
>> me.  But maybe I'm infected by the PEP 318 virus.
>
> What I don't like about the third alternative is the subtle
> distinction between parentheses and square brackets.  It seems like
> newbies would have a hard time with it, as would advanced programmers
> who are looking over a new code base.

That may be true, especially for classes.  But as understand it, the
main purpose of PEP 318 is for function decorators, not class
decorators.  And for functions it is clearer, since you always have a
parameter list.

BTW, how would you specify base classes for ICustomer?

    ICustomer = Interface(class, IBaseInterface):
        def get_id():
            """Return the customer ID"""

Thomas




From hendry at bogrund-17.cs.helsinki.fi  Fri Mar  5 03:49:50 2004
From: hendry at bogrund-17.cs.helsinki.fi (Kai I Hendry)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 08:49:50 GMT
Subject: HTMLParser and write
Message-ID: <slrnc4gfpd.nbl.hendry@bogrund-17.cs.helsinki.fi>

I am finding the :
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/htmlparser-example.html
A little lacking. 

I want an example with parses and then writes the same html file (a fine test
case!). Does anyone know where I can find such an example, as my initial attempt
is proving tricky. For example do I really need to do things like: ' %s="%s" '
% (name, value) with the attributes? What happens if a tag needs not be closed
by handle_endtag? Why does my __init__ def not work? And what about the rest?
>From decl to parsing entities...


#!/usr/bin/python2.3
import sys
from HTMLParser import HTMLParser

class MyHTMLParser(HTMLParser):

    #def __init__(self):
        #self.tagsoup = []

    def handle_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
        self.tagsoup.append(tag)
        sys.stdout.write('<%s' % tag)
        for attr in attrs:
            name, value = attr
            sys.stdout.write(' %s="%s" ' % (name, value))
        sys.stdout.write('>')


        #This is the whole tag
        #But, how do know if it needs to be closed?
        #print self.get_starttag_text()


    def handle_data(self, data):
        sys.stdout.write(data)

    def handle_endtag(self, tag):
        self.tagsoup.remove(tag)
        sys.stdout.write('</%s>' % tag)

        #Something like this?
        #Or is there a better way?
        #print self.check_for_whole_start_tag

if __name__ == "__main__":
        h = MyHTMLParser()

        # __init__ def results in some sort of rawdata error, hence:
        h.tagsoup = []

        #h.feed(sys.stdin.read())
    
        import urllib2
        html = urllib2.urlopen('http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/hendry/')
        h.feed(html.read())


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 17:15:27 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:15:27 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<258fd9b8.0403301151.179e9190@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4kmac.74887$cx5.73453@fed1read04>

(Sorry about the blank reply)

> What about just combining it to this?
>
> with Thing = Base():

Yes, I want to.  But first I have to decide to get rid of Guido's aversion
to assignments returning a value.

Any ideas on how to implement assignment expressions and not have if x = y:
ambiguity problems?

I've considered using a different syntax for the expression version of "=",
such as ":=" or even left.replace!(right).

"Magnus Lyck?" <magnus at thinkware.se> wrote in message
news:258fd9b8.0403301151.179e9190 at posting.google.com...
> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > * A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
> >    wouldn't go amiss. Having to say
> >
> >      Thing = Base()
> >      with Thing:
> >         ...
> >
> >    every time I want to define a class (oops, sorry, prototype)
> >    would drive me batty.
>
> What about just combining it to this?
>
> with Thing = Base():
>     ...




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 25 10:55:42 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:55:42 -0600
Subject: paths: splitall(), relativepath()
In-Reply-To: <4061ff76.3773921@news.muenster.de>
References: <4061ff76.3773921@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <20040325155541.GA16608@unpythonic.net>

relativepath won't work with mac-style paths, instead of ".." you should
probably use os.pardir instead.

that's the only thing that jumps out at me...

Jeff
PS I've often wanted splitall(), I don't recall ever wanting relativepath



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 22 18:14:55 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:14:55 -0500
Subject: name of 'name'
References: <W5G7c.878632$ts4.740941@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <105ustn6p0563f3@news.supernews.com>

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
news:W5G7c.878632$ts4.740941 at pd7tw3no...
> Is there a built-in name for the function that returns an object's name?
That
> is, for
>
> "  lambda x: [y for y in globals().keys() if globals()[y]==x][0]   "  ?
>
> Muchas gracias.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for, but if it's
an "official" way of finding out what the module level
names(s) that an object is bound to are, then the answer
is: no, there isn't one. Python does not, in general,
maintain any information that would let you get from
an object to the identifiers it's bound to in any simple
fashion.

There are, of course, a couple of special cases.
Function and class objects both have a __name__
attribute that will tell you what they were bound
to when they were defined. Whether they stayed
there is another question, of course.

John Roth

> Peace
>
>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 18:28:56 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:28:56 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-959027.13550629032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <donn-08FC49.15285529032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w at speakeasy.net>,
 "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com> wrote:
> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> news:donn-959027.13550629032004 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...

> > spawnv returns a process ID, if you use os.P_NOWAIT.  It returns
> > the process exit status if you use os.P_WAIT.  If you look at the
> > code, in os.py, you will see that this second variation is essentially
> > implemented by applying waitpid() to the first.
> 
> So, if I'm following this correctly, if I use os.P_NOWAIT, I shouldn't have
> to apply waitpid(), no? And, then, I shouldn't have a zombie process if I
> use P_NOWAIT, either. Am I getting this?

Well, no, I believe you have it backwards.

   Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Mar 27 16:00:18 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:00:18 GMT
Subject: Random Number
References: <a4648036.0403271156.787706e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CXl9c.25728$QO2.16213@pd7tw1no>

The probability that the same number will turn up more than once is
approximately one in two million. If you're still worried, you might want to try
something like this:

>>> import random
>>> randoms=[]
>>> while len(randoms)<5:
 x=random.randint(1,100)
 if x in randoms:
  continue
 else:
  randoms.append(x)

HTH. BTW it's a lot easier to read "10**10" or "1e10" instead of a big string of
zeros.

Peace

"james blair" <talktojamesblair at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a4648036.0403271156.787706e5 at posting.google.com...
| Hi
| I am generating a random number using
| random.randint(1,10000000000)
| Whats the possibility that the numbers generated will be same when
| generated by 100 users at the same time?
| Whats the best method to generate random numbers so that they are most
| likely unique??
| Thanks




From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Tue Mar  2 23:46:16 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:46:16 GMT
Subject: Why does my Tkinter GIF image disappear when inside a class?
Message-ID: <sqd1c.651728$JQ1.98881@pd7tw1no>

I'm trying to display a GIF image in a label as the central area to a
Tkinter GUI.   The image does not appear, though a space is made for it. 
Why is this so?

I notice that I can display a GIF image in the central area of a simple
menu-bar app as shown below in the first code sample. But, when I set up my
app with a class, as shown below in the second code sample, the image
disappears.   

How can I correct this? I'm sure the answer would jump out at me if I
thought more clearly about it...

thanks
S

---
#basicmenu.py : displays GIF image


from Tkinter import *


def callback(text):
    print "called the callback!: "+text

root = Tk()

# create a menu
menu = Menu(root)
root.config(menu=menu)

filemenu = Menu(menu)
menu.add_cascade(label="File", menu=filemenu)
filemenu.add_command(label="New", command=callback('new'))
filemenu.add_command(label="Open...", command=callback('open'))
filemenu.add_separator()
filemenu.add_command(label="Exit", command=callback('exit'))

helpmenu = Menu(menu)
menu.add_cascade(label="Help", menu=helpmenu)
helpmenu.add_command(label="About...", command=callback('about'))

img00 = PhotoImage(format='gif',data=
             'R0lGODlhKwAQAJEAACWgA/3bYYNOGgAAACwAAAAAKwAQAAACfIyPqcsrD2M0'
            +'oAJqa8h29yAkITiG3HWmKWiUrdtpseZdtcfmJSyjvf2Z5Q671u0wA9I+RtLj'
            +'ZcwgfxglTTchjqS34JUrCUMQySOzih07Tb62eeneqSfU8vsmf65xZa8S/zI3'
            +'dlLD5deRl1dlxdT4MYIA2TBJuSZ2iZkZVgAAOw==')

newLabel = Label(root,image=img00)
t = str(img00.width()) + ' wide x ' + str(img00.height()) + ' high'
newLabel.pack()
Label(root,text='The image is\n'+t).pack()

mainloop()
---
#basicmenu2gifobj.py : doesn't display image

from Tkinter import *

class gifMenu:
    def __init__(self, parent):

        # create a menu
        menu = Menu(parent)
        parent.config(menu=menu)

        filemenu = Menu(menu)
        menu.add_cascade(label="File", menu=filemenu)
        filemenu.add_command(label="New", command=callback('new'))
        filemenu.add_command(label="Open...", command=callback('open'))
        filemenu.add_separator()
        filemenu.add_command(label="Exit", command=callback('exit'))

        helpmenu = Menu(menu)
        menu.add_cascade(label="Help", menu=helpmenu)
        helpmenu.add_command(label="About...", command=callback('about'))

        img00 = PhotoImage(format='gif',data=
              'R0lGODlhKwAQAJEAACWgA/3bYYNOGgAAACwAAAAAKwAQAAACfIyPqcsrD2M0'
            +'oAJqa8h29yAkITiG3HWmKWiUrdtpseZdtcfmJSyjvf2Z5Q671u0wA9I+RtLj'
            +'ZcwgfxglTTchjqS34JUrCUMQySOzih07Tb62eeneqSfU8vsmf65xZa8S/zI3'
            +'dlLD5deRl1dlxdT4MYIA2TBJuSZ2iZkZVgAAOw==')

        newLabel = Label(parent,image=img00)
        t = str(img00.width()) + ' wide x ' + str(img00.height()) + ' high'
        newLabel.pack()
        Label(parent,text='The image is\n'+t).pack()

class callback:
    def __init__(self, text):
        self.text = text
    def __call__(self):
        print 'Command is: ',self.text

######################################################################

# Create GUI in root window for testing.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    title='Menu test with GIF'
    root = Tk()
    #Pmw.initialise(root)
    root.title(title)

    #exitButton = Tkinter.Button(root, text = 'Exit', command =
root.destroy)
    #exitButton.pack(side = 'bottom')
    gifMenu = gifMenu(root)


    root.mainloop()




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Mar 10 03:33:00 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:33:00 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403100004.4c49cd3c@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>	<c2i6lh$ono$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<8089854e.0403100004.4c49cd3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404ED2BC.6090404@ghaering.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> I can do a proof of concept on my own computer with a personal server.

If you're writing a CGI script, putting the PySQLite files into the cgi-bin 
directory will work fine. Just copy them from a PC where you've installed PySQLite 
locally:

cgi-bin directory:

myscript.py     <----- your CGI script
_sqlite.pyd
sqlite/
sqlite/main.py
sqlite/__init__.py

HTH,

-- Gerhard



From python at rcn.com  Tue Mar 23 04:11:03 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 01:11:03 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>

[Trevor Perrin]
> > Actually, Random could be made even easier to subclass.  getrandbits
> > (which is new in 2.4) returns a long.  It would be better for us if
> > there was a getrandstring() function that an underlying generator
> > could implement.  This would also be a helpful addition to the API, at
> > least for cryptographic uses.

[Paul Rubin]
> I agree with this, and was going to propose the same thing.
> getrandbits can be defined easily in terms of getrandstring, and the
> current sample sharandom implemenation at
> 
>    http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.py
> 
> does something along those lines.

If you're sure you need this, please put a feature request on SF.  It
needs to have a use case other than feeding message digest funtions --
that need is readily met with str(x) or the faster hex(x).

The new genrandbits() method was designed around the use case of
making randrange() work over very large intervals which was necessary
for creating large primes for RSA work.  In addition, all of the
methods internal to the Random module work with numbers instead of
byte strings.

Also, genrandbits() was selected because it is straight-forward to
implement for many different random number generators including those
that generate a bit at a time.


Raymond


From rupole at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:04:28 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:04:28 -0800
Subject: py2exe win32all: Can write, but not read FileVersion ...
References: <c2plth$8ap$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
	<mailman.267.1079012227.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4050fab2_5@127.0.0.1>

The language and codepage are getting reversed in the resource created.
If you switch them in the call to GetFileVersionInfo, everything shows up.
                  Roger

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.267.1079012227.19534.python-list at python.org...
> "Werner Merkl" <werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.com> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > Python is really great, for small to big programs. For my colleagues and
> > some circumstances I sometimes need to "compile" a script using py2exe.
> >
> > Cause I use Windows, I like to use the (Windows) ability, to add some
> > version infos, comments, etc to the exe file.
> >
> > If I use explorer to check, these properties are visible and correct.
> > But if I use _win32api.GetFileVersion_ , I get nothing for the language
> > dependent resource...
> >
> > At the end you may see my example source code, which is almost the
> > original code from win32all and py2exe. Just compile and start.
>
> This is a known (to me, at least) bug: the version info resources are
> probably not correct - they also don't show up on win98.  But I never
> cared enough to fix that.  It would be great if someone could do this,
> the code is all in Python, in py2exe\resources\VersionInfo.py.
>
> > BTW: I found the same behavior for (most/all?) .pyd from win32all
> > and for PythonWin.exe.
>
> That may, or may not, be related.  I have no idea.
>
> Thomas
>
>




From scav at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 08:46:25 2004
From: scav at blueyonder.co.uk (Peter Harris)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:46:25 +0000
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
In-Reply-To: <du7u10fakbc.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
	<du71xnjvptq.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<116060ler85o8u8e2tjn9rjp3j7ocp3d3q@4ax.com>
	<du7u10fakbc.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <27X7c.4735$S61.197@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Ville Vainio wrote:

> d = functional.compose([d1,d2,d3])
> 
> Which just needs the not-yet-implemented 'functional' module :-).
> 

Well, PEP 309 has been submitted for review, so with any luck (since 
it's not very controversial) we'll have somewhere to put compose().

But I only asked for partial(). Someone else can propose how to do The 
Right Thing for function composition ;)

Peter Harris


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 20 18:40:21 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:40:21 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <105plk0tk9qk73b@news.supernews.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg at powergate.ca...
> Carl Banks wrote:
>
> > Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> >
> >>[Ed Cogburn]
> >>>I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled
> >>>around some and read some programming language websites but I have yet
> >>>to find a language similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.
> >>>[...] Is there such a thing?
> >>
> >>What is your real need?  Why do you consider important to compile
> >>something to an executable binary?  The goal is executing a program
> >>written in Python, or Python-like language, isn't it?
> >
> > I really don't think why he needs it is necessary to answer this
> > question: he stated what he wanted clearly enough.  And I would say
> > questioning his need for a complied language is quite presumptuous.
>
> Presumptuous?  Hardly.  It's a very valid question to ask.
>
> By asking for "a compiled language like Python", Ed is making the common
> mistake of specifying a solution without identifying what his
> requirements are.  We are simply trying to identify what his real needs
> are so that we can give him a useful answer, along the lines of, say,
> "use py2exe for easier packaging" if that were his goal.
>
> Also, although I don't think this is a problem Ed has, some people are
> confused about interpreted versus compiled and such things.  It's just
> possible that someone asking such a question has an incorrect
> understanding of how programs work, and thus asked a "wrong question"
> innocently.

Actually, I believe he did specify what he wanted it for. He said,
and I'm quoting from is message:

[quote]

I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some
and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a
language
similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in
the
wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish
language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's
basic
syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to
denote
code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic
and OO features would still be interesting to me (indeed, it would really
have
to lose most of the dynamic characteristics in order to make it a compilable
language, which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).  Is
there such a thing?

[end quote]

The key phrase here is

"just uses Python's basic
syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to
denote
code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic
and OO features would still be interesting to me"

I certainly think that is clear enough. He wants a compiled language
that has some of Python's ease of use features. Is that so hard to
understand?

John Roth
>
> -Peter




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Mar 18 00:02:58 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:02:58 -0500
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3a6c.19554$E71.1405188@news20.bellglobal.com>


"droog" <droog at orange.gov> wrote in message
news:dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto at 4ax.com...
> Could you please show me an alternative and better way of doing it?
> tia

# if the file is not very large you can slurp and count
source = file('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt')
tally = source.read().count("customer")
source.close()

# otherwise, you can go line by line
source = file('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt')
tally = 0
for line in source:
    if "customer" in line:
        tally += 1
source.close()

Note: "customer" matches as a substring.  It will match "customers" but not
"Customer", that sort of thing. Depending on how you want to count matches,
you may need to do further text processing (like converting the line to
lower case before matching), or use a regular expression for precise
matching (such as not counting "customers", when you only want to count
"customer").

HTH
Sean






From http  Mon Mar 22 19:43:18 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 16:43:18 -0800
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

DH <no at sp.am> writes:
> Possible future Python example that uses "as" differently:
>
> def foo(x as int, y as float) as int:
>     "this function returns an integer, and takes an int & float params"

I think I'd rather use colons for that, like Pascal does, e.g.

  def foo:int (x: int, y: float)

hmm, the foo:int doesn't look too good.

> If we use the list syntax for decorators instead of "as", we might be
> able to do something like:
> 
> def foo(x as int, y as float) [synchronized, classmethod] as int:

That's sort of nice.


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Tue Mar 30 14:06:47 2004
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:06:47 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<40655266$0$557$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<%wS9c.58359$cx5.856@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <4069c547$0$558$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Mark,

you wrote:

>> I do not yet know in detail how Prothon deals with module
> namespaces. These are important for larger scale programs,
> so I hope they got that right.
> 
> I hope so too.  We basicly have "module globals" exactly like Python.  See
> "Module Globals and Real Globals" at http://prothon.org/description-3.htm.
> Please let me know if we got it wrong.

I'm not a language lawyer, so that took a quite while to sink in.
Nevertheless, it looks right.
 
Good luck,
Ype



From antonella.dolsa at tazzetti.com  Sat Mar  6 05:03:26 2004
From: antonella.dolsa at tazzetti.com (Antonella Dolsa)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:03:26 +0100
Subject: Risposta automatica Fuori sede: Your software
Message-ID: <8ED6E9E4DC8CD340BA3FB5F92C53415D6C867A@osiride.emea.corporate.tazzetti.com>

Con la presente Vi comunico che il mio indirizzo dal gennaio 2004 sar? il seguente:

antonella.dolsa at univareurope.com <mailto:antonella.dolsa at univareurope.com>

Colgo altres? l'occasione per comunicarVi che il mio rientro in azienda ? previsto per il giorno 7 gennaio p.v.

Buon Anno a tutti!

antonella dolsa


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From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 28 12:58:16 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:58:16 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<r4idnebU2MfTkvrdRVn-uA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <HmE9c.362$1A6.132343@news20.bellglobal.com>

"DH" <no at sp.am> wrote in message news:r4idnebU2MfTkvrdRVn-uA at comcast.com...
[snip]
> These are all ugly and unreadable.

I agree.


> Note though this all really is beyond the initial scope of PEP 318.

Yep. The discussion is "progressing" beyond that scope.

 http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043566.html
(where Josiah Carlson tries to reign in the discussion)




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 25 20:10:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:10:09 -0500
Subject: Inheriting Classes Across Files
References: <E6K8c.748$Dv2.185@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1066rp8nj7al3e1@news.supernews.com>
	<knK8c.1076$lt2.68@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <10670o5hq8pga7f@news.supernews.com>


"Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
news:knK8c.1076$lt2.68 at newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I tried that as I understand it. I'm sure I'm making a silly error in all
> this. Here is a simple example of what I'm trying:
>
>   --- (File super_class.py) ---
>
> class base_class:
>
>   def sample():
>     return "Returned!"
>
>   --- (File sub_class.py) ---
>
> import super_class
>
> class derived_class(base_class):
>
>   def sample2():
>     return "Returned Twice!"
>
>  --- (End) ---
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/tina/python/test/sub_class.py", line 3, in -toplevel-
>     class derived_class(base_class):
> NameError: name 'base_class' is not defined

That needs to be

class derived_class(super_class.base_class):
    pass

or else:

import base_class from super_class

HTH

John Roth

>
>
> John Roth wrote:
>
> >
> > "Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
> > news:E6K8c.748$Dv2.185 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >> In my program I need derived classes to inherit from the super class.
> >>
> >> I can do this but I'd like to split the super class into it's own file.
> >>
> >> How do you do this? When I split the code I start getting errors.
> >
> > The module with the superclass has to be imported before
> > the subclass is defined.
> >
> > Be very careful you don't get into an import loop.
> > That way lies madness.
> >
> > John Roth
> >>
>




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Mar 23 10:33:53 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 16:33:53 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <tyf7jxb60im.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> writes:

> >>>>> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> (JG) wrote:
> 
> JG> I am of the opinion that (explicit) static typing contributes to the
> JG> bugginess of programs.
> 
> I would like to know if there is scientific evidence (rather than
> feelings/opinions) about the pro or con of this statement.

_Scientific_ evidence ?

I would bet that there is not. 

(I have, of course, no scientific evidence to back up my belief in the
lack of such evidence :-)


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 31 00:21:04 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:21:04 +1200
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
In-Reply-To: <8y8ac.68250$cx5.51296@fed1read04>
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c4aia1$2d44ll$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8y8ac.68250$cx5.51296@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4dkg2$2gsuda$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> > But presumably he wants the check done only once, when a subclass is
> > defined, *not* every time said subclass is instantiated.
> 
> You can have a different __init__ for an object and it's prototpe.So the
> Prothon equivalent of a subclass can easily have different __init__
> behaviour than it's child (what you call instance).

Can you post some code illustrating how you would do this
in Prothon? I still can't see how, at the point where you
do

   X = Base()

anything can tell whether you're intending to use X as
an instance of Base or whether you're going to go on to
say

   with X:
     def ...

and use X as a prototype which inherits behaviour from
Base. In both cases, Base.__init__ is going to get invoked
before you have a chance to define any other __init__ that
might override it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Thu Mar 25 06:21:11 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:21:11 +0100
Subject: DB-API 2.0 compliant modules
Message-ID: <4062C0A7.6070001@zslide.com>

hi,

i'd like to know if zxJDBC and MySQLdb are both DB-API 2.0 compliant ....
I've read that zxJDBC were providing "a _nearly_ 100% Python DB API 2.0 
compliant interface for database connectivity in Jython" ... did anybody 
tried that for real ?

In fact, i want to re-use some python code using MySQLdb in a jython 
script but jython doesn't support MySQLdb (because it uses a C interface 
: _mysql) : that's why i have to use zxJDBC ...

thx,
vince.



From guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz  Thu Mar 25 05:56:46 2004
From: guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz (Guy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:56:46 +1200
Subject: monitoring a directory
In-Reply-To: <mailman.382.1080205904.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.382.1080205904.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3udtb$raj$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

Cheers Tim, that's the ticket. Perfect!!!

Regards,

Guy

>>What would be the most efficient or 'clever' way to monitor a 
>>directory 
>>for file additions/ modifications on windows?
>>
>>Currently I'm looping through the directory with a 1 sec delay. But 
>>doesn't seem that clever.
> 
> 
> There are two methods that I know of (apart from the simple approach you
> describe). One is described in this recipe:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/156178
> 
> This is simple to use, but falls down a bit if you have more than a few
> files in the directory, since it doesn't know what's changed. It's fine if
> you're just happy to rescan, say for a file-manager app.
> 
> The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the
> recently-added-to-pywin32 win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW functionality.
> Example follows. (I keep meaning to send this up as a recipe, but I never
> quite seem to manage). In essence, ReadDirectoryChangesW returns a list of
> tuples, each of which is an (action, filename) pair. The actions -- by
> experiment -- are held in the ACTIONS dictionary. A rename will always give
> a list of two tuples, one with the before and one with the after. Other
> compound actions (such as deleting a set of files) may also give a
> more-than-one list of tuples. Play around with it. It works.
> 
> <code>
> 
> import os
> import sys
> import time
> 
> import win32file
> import win32con
> 
> ACTIONS = {
>   1 : "Created",
>   2 : "Deleted",
>   3 : "Updated",
>   4 : "Renamed to something",
>   5 : "Renamed from something"
> }
> ## 1 - create
> ## 2 - delete
> ## 3 - update (including security change)
> ## 4 & 5 - before & after on a rename
> 
> try: path_to_watch = sys.argv[1] or "."
> except: path_to_watch = "."
> path_to_watch = os.path.abspath (path_to_watch)
> 
> print "Watching %s at %s" % (path_to_watch, time.asctime ())
> 
> FILE_LIST_DIRECTORY = 0x0001
> 
> hDir = win32file.CreateFile (
>     path_to_watch,
>     FILE_LIST_DIRECTORY,
>     win32con.FILE_SHARE_READ | win32con.FILE_SHARE_WRITE,
>     None,
>     win32con.OPEN_EXISTING,
>     win32con.FILE_FLAG_BACKUP_SEMANTICS,
>     None
> )
>    
> while 1:
>   results = win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW (
>     hDir,
>     1024,
>     True,
>     win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_FILE_NAME | 
>      win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_DIR_NAME |
>      win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_ATTRIBUTES |
>      win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_SIZE |
>      win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_LAST_WRITE |
>      win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_SECURITY,
>     None,
>     None
>   )
>   print '-*-*-*'
>   for action, file in results:
>     full_filename = os.path.join (path_to_watch, file)
>     if os.path.isdir (full_filename):
>       file_type = 'folder'
>     else:
>       file_type = 'file'
>     print file_type, file, ACTIONS.get (action, "Unknown")
> 
> </code>
> 
> TJG
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 


From niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu  Mon Mar 15 17:46:00 2004
From: niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu (niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:46:00 -0500
Subject: isinstance method
Message-ID: <0403151079.AA1079391193@ws3.cimex.com.cu>

I need to find out dynamically if an object is instance of a Class but I don't
know how to use this isinstance buit-in function. I have the object and the name
of the class, what should I do?

Thanks
Niurka




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Wed Mar 10 01:42:36 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:42:36 +0200
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
In-Reply-To: <3af2i1-c1i1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
	<mailman.196.1078884831.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<3af2i1-c1i1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <404EB8DC.2010002@zoran.com>

Hello Tim,

> How about something like this:
> -------------------------------
> ...
See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/231516 
(shameless propaganda :-)

HTH.
Miki


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  7 08:02:08 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 05:02:08 -0800
Subject: Reports
References: <f046efac.0403060043.269a096e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403070502.736d9a48@posting.google.com>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<f046efac.0403060043.269a096e at posting.google.com>...
> Hi
> I am developing  web application.
> I have my data stored in a database.Now I want to generate a bar chart
> & other reports.How can I do it using python?
Will using something like HTMLGen help??


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 18:26:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:26:28 -0500
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <c3fq37$ld7$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
References: <c3fq37$ld7$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <JoqdnfCP0Pk7HMbdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>

Salvatore wrote:

> I'am trying to parse an XML file using sax and Python 2.3 on windows
> 
> class FindIssue(saxutils.DefaultHandler):
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DefaultHandler'
> 
> Doesn't DefaultHandler makes part of saxutils ?

Evidently not.  Why did you think it would?  See 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-xml.sax.saxutils.html


Perhaps you were thinking of this one instead?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/xmlparser-objects.html

-Peter


From http  Mon Mar 22 02:03:24 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 23:03:24 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:
> The current foo=staticmethod(foo) makes the Python 'staticmethod' seem
> like a hack. Many users of staticmethod won't even need to know that
> wrapping takes place. It certainly discourages people from using the
> feature in the first place.
> 
> And when did syntactic beauty stop mattering?

"def foo() as staticmethod" certainly looks best to me aesthetically.
The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order
to decide if it's a generator.


From salvatore at nolog.org  Wed Mar 10 15:27:02 2004
From: salvatore at nolog.org (Salvatore)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:27:02 +0100
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2ntln$i2e$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I recently wrote a Perl version of pyAlbum.py [1] -- a
> Python script to create an image album from a given
> directory -- plAlbum.pl [2].
> 
> It made me realize how easy-to-use Python is.
> 
> [1]
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246
> [2]
> http://www.premshree.resource-locator.com/cgi-bin/source.pl?file=../perl/plAlbum.pl
> 
> -Premshree Pillai
> 
> =====
> -Premshree
> [http://www.qiksearch.com/]
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
> Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
> 
That will help me in my debates thnak you ;-)



From ch3m4 at ch3m4.org  Mon Mar  1 11:30:06 2004
From: ch3m4 at ch3m4.org (Chema Cortes)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:30:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Concatenated numerical literals
References: <40435591.9050502@psyket.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20040301T172140-287@post.gmane.org>

Per Erik Stendahl <berra <at> psyket.com> writes:

> I wish I could write large integers (and floats, etc) like
> this in Python:
> 
>      10 000 000


Perhaps it's more simple to implement the use of underscores as a thousands
separator, like perl does.






From jayoconnor at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 22 19:23:56 2004
From: jayoconnor at earthlink.net (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:23:56 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <wsL7c.34390$%06.30789@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> 
>>You might also have occasion to learn about Pyrex and ... well, I'm
>>in the Trotskyite wing on this question.  It's not just that Python
>>can work for large projects.  I sincerely regard it as an even
>>*better* comparative choice on large projects; C++ and Java, the
>>usual com- petition, show all sorts of blemishes when one scales the
>>size of the project.  Python remains usable, even at the high end.
> 
> 
> I keep hearing this, but I don't see any large (much less very large)
> applications that have been done in Python; Zope is medium sized.
> 
> Suppose you wanted to write any of the following:
> 
> 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> 10) ... well you get the idea.
> 
> Which, if any, would you write in Python? 

6 and 8, maybe 3...and 10 of course

Take care,
Jay



From lubowiecka at go2.pl  Thu Mar 11 02:02:13 2004
From: lubowiecka at go2.pl (Sylwia)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 23:02:13 -0800
Subject: Tkinter tree widget and multiple items selection
Message-ID: <f6554b84.0403102302.7f71014c@posting.google.com>

Hi!

Have anyone ever tried to modify the Gene Cash's Tkinter tree widget
(available from http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/) so it supports
multiple items selection ( selection of multiple files like in Windows
Explorer - CTRL and SHIFT keys for file selection)?

Thank you in advance for any hints!

Best Wishes,

Niki


From peter at semantico.com  Fri Mar 12 07:19:03 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:03 +0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <1053a1ff7rmfu12@news.supernews.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<1051159aq8rifd0@corp.supernews.com>
	<405187fd$0$2803$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<1053a1ff7rmfu12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4051aab7$0$15131$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

John Roth wrote:
> Have you looked at Io?

It's on my list after I've had a go at lua


From michael at foord.net  Tue Mar 30 08:18:58 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 05:18:58 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>

"Hugh Macdonald" <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
> 
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.
> 

Never tried it - see below :-)

> Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed to
> me
> 

'Programming Python' has an excellent introduction.. so I started with
Tkinter thinking that when I hit restrictions I could move onto wx. I
haven't yet reached the point where Tkinter restricts me. Whereas
there are a couple of widgets missing from the standard distribution,
Tkinter *can* be used to make clean and modern looking interfaces.....
And the syntax isn't too gawky once you've climbed the initial
learning curve.

> GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> 

Is this Linux only ? 
(pardon my terrible ignorance...)

> Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
> 
Although *technically* cross platform, windoze users can't get a free
version... so I'm never going to bother looking at it...

On the other hand Kodos - (a regular expression tool) has an
'executable' version with the libraries bundled with it. And the GUI
it has is very nice. Whether it would be possible to extract the
windoze libraries from the Kodos executable distribution is an
interesting question - lol.

> Anything else?
> 

Anyway - most of my contribution is mad rambling.....

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> 
> Hugh Macdonald


From carljohan at kjellander.com.invalid  Sun Mar 14 19:27:56 2004
From: carljohan at kjellander.com.invalid (Carl-Johan Kjellander)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:27:56 +0100
Subject: httplib and forcing IPv6.
Message-ID: <c32tac$8me$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>

I have a problem. I want to use httplib to a site that has both IPv4 and
IPv6 connectivity, hence it has both A and AAAA records.

Is there a way to force httplib to use IPv6 only, or to at least try
IPv6 before IPv4? As it is now, httplib always takes the IPv4 address
first.

If there isn't a way to do this, i.e. httplib always connects to the IPv4
address first, and there is now way to change that, who do I talk to
about adding a feature to select which version of IP to try first? Since
python is a language and not just ome other program I know that features
have to be perfect when you add them cause they might be along for a long
time.

/Carl-Johan Kjellander
-- 
begin 644 carljohan_at_kjellander_dot_com.gif
Y1TE&.#=A(0`F`(```````/___RP`````(0`F```"@XR/!\N<#U.;+MI`<[U(>\!UGQ9BGT%>'D2I
Y*=NX,2 at OUF2&<827ILW;^822C>\7!!Z1,!K'B5(6H<SH-"E*TJ3%*/>QI6:7"A>Y?):D2^*U at NCV
R<MOQ=]V(B6>LZYD-_T1U<@3W]A4(^$-W4]A#V")W6#.R"$;IR'@).46BN7$9>5D``#L`


From vijay_srr at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 02:20:44 2004
From: vijay_srr at yahoo.com (Vijay)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 23:20:44 -0800
Subject: py2exe in Windowsxp
Message-ID: <38f75b16.0403022320.1f56ce00@posting.google.com>

Hello,

Is py2exe 0.5.0 supported in Windows XP? In the project homepage in
SourceForge.net, only Win95/95/2000 are listed.

Thanks,
Vijay


From ir4u4 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 22:28:12 2004
From: ir4u4 at yahoo.com (Equis Uno)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 19:28:12 -0800
Subject: pdb help...
References: <692feddd.0403080056.564a194a@posting.google.com>
	<404C380D.4040408@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <692feddd.0403081928.4efa97bd@posting.google.com>

Hi,
Thanks for the tip.
I don't have a pdb executable in my path.
I assume it is a script.
When you get a minute, could you cat it out and post a screen dump?
Thanks,
-moi


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 19:34:03 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:34:03 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<huvv505om6eq8scvisrhsmul8b14mht5jg@4ax.com>
	<c3pj77$r8n$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <2dl160t6s26gau4o4gt2ld79s35gjsd0ma@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:56:39 +0100, Marco Bubke <marco at bubke.de>
wrote:

>I like :
>def foo(x=42:int, y=3.14:float) [return(string)]:
>
>
>def foo[return(string)](x=42:int, y=3.14:float):
>
>looks strange to me. Its very unreadable. Its maybe the first time I really
>disagree with a Idea of Guido. :-)

I kind of agree, but I wonder how much is out of familiarity.

I would use the logic of 'preferring the return type at the end', and
perhaps cite Ada, Pascal, Modula 2, etc (Algol as well?) as examples
to follow. But then why do I have no problem with C, C++, Java, C# etc
where the type of the return value usually comes first?


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar 18 08:45:23 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:45:23 -0500
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com><h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com><roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com><dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto@4ax.com><m3a6c.19554$E71.1405188@news20.bellglobal.com><Maa6c.19565$E71.1406836@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<40593E14.EAF16BD5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <c3c95g$cc6$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:40593E14.EAF16BD5 at alcyone.com...
> Sean Ross wrote:
>
> > # sorry, that should be
> > source = file('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt')
>
> You really want to use double backslashes (\\) here or use a raw string
> (r'...').  If not, this will eventually bite you.

Or forward slashes (/), which avoids the whole problem.

tjr






From bitbucket at safe-mail.net  Tue Mar  2 15:09:39 2004
From: bitbucket at safe-mail.net (poiboy)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 12:09:39 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>	<af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1078239723.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <af6b5bdd.0403021209.2bda67a9@posting.google.com>

> what is the advantage of gvim?

I switched to GVim after moving from desktop/mouse to
laptop/trackpoint because trackpointers (a must-have, little knobby
joystick in the middle of the keyboard) eliminate the expense of small
pointer movements (if any IBM reps are reading, I am your ThinkPad
cheerleader). On the desktop, I felt most comfortable leaving the
mouse alone and using 'screen'
(http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html) to organize multiple
Vim windows.

In addition to the benefits already mentioned, GVim maintained better
speed than Vim after I added:

	autocmd BufEnter * :syntax sync fromstart

to alleviate (brutally) highlighting consistency problems with larger
files (500+ lines or so).

Aloha,
the poiboy


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar  5 09:20:52 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:20:52 -0500
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de><1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net><40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de><Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95><c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu><17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01><s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com><4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com><22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>
	<0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <c2a2c4$80e$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Dang Griffith" <noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote in message
news:0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0 at news.teranews.com...
> I'm not trying to be pedantic (at least, I think I'm not trying),

You further clarification makes this more apparent ;-)

>but the difference between a statement and a function is a semantic
> difference, not (just) a syntactic one.

If one views statements as an alternate syntax for expressing functions (in
the general math rather than special Python object sense) on the program
state, then the different is just syntactic.  For instance,

import somemod # is sematically equal to
somemod = __import__('somemod')

and the statement form can be regarded as a shortcut (syntactic sugur) for
the explicit function form, which requires parens, and duplication with
quotes.

Similarly, after 'import __main__',

name = object # abbreviates the more explicit functional form
setattr(__main__, 'name', object)

Note again the need to quote in the functional form.  Most Python
statements do some implicit quoting (as do, for instance, Lisp special
forms and macros).  A hypothetical __def__ function, for instance, would
require quoting of the function and parameter names and the whole code
block, but not the default arg expressions.

> The logic is that "much the same" is not "the same", and is the point
> of the OP's plea.
>
> In any case, I think the one-liner posted satisfies nearly all of the
> requirements.
>
> import sys
> def pr(*args): sys.stdout.write(''.join([str(i) for i in args]))
>
> Where it fails is the difference between a function and a statement.
> The OP said [one of] the advantages of a statement is that there is no
> need for parenthesis.

This difference is purely syntax, not sematics in terms of the net effect
on program state, including the contents of the stdout stream.

Perhaps we have different meanings for the word semantics?

Terry J. Reedy






From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 06:48:49 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:48:49 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <c4e9mq$2gcu5j$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4e9mq$2gcu5j$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <406AB021.3010706@mlug.missouri.edu>


> Then why waste space and bandwidth and include it?

Because it provides contunity?

> If you need to refresh your memory on the discussion then back up the 
> thread and read the previous messages. A whole keypress in most readers.

Which is fine except that often threads go in mupltiple directions and 
have multiple people conversing such that without quoted text a reader 
may be unsure what and who was being responded to.

> And that's saying nothing of rendering the information that's given by 
> the line count of the posting useless. Many readers display the line 
> count with the subject, and that gives you a clue as to how 'heavy' 
> the posting is going to be. Just a short rebuttal, a 'me too', or a 
> dissertation in it's own right? It's impossible to tell when people 
> include the particular version of the King James' bible they're 
> commenting on.

Which is why it's helpful to clip your quoted material to what is needed 
to be informative and that is all. It might be a good feature if you 
made an option in your mail program not to count quoted lines. Should't 
be to hard to implement.



From davor.beuc at BRISIOVOvestigo.hr  Tue Mar 23 17:45:10 2004
From: davor.beuc at BRISIOVOvestigo.hr (Davor Beuc)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:45:10 +0100
Subject: Xemacs terminal output
References: <1d17eeb7.0403211649.4683bd4f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.23.22.45.09.860300@BRISIOVOvestigo.hr>

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:49:26 -0800, Jay Davis wrote:

> What is the best way to run python in Xemacs (with C-c C-c)
> with real time standard output?  Right now, the python output
> window fills up when the program is finished running, but
> if the program runs for hours it would be nice to see the
> output as it is written.  I know that I can switch to a
> python interpreter window and paste the code in etc but I don't
> care about the interpreter, just about the (printed) output
> after C-c C-c.

You can open the interpreter buffer with C-c ! and then when you start a
python program with C-c C-c, its stdout will be shown in the interpreter
buffer in real time. No need for pasting the code.


From cuteapple48 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 21:10:17 2004
From: cuteapple48 at yahoo.com (Rachel)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 18:10:17 -0800
Subject: Traceback (most recent call last):
Message-ID: <5497c46e.0403231810.5f040d02@posting.google.com>

I am new here, no idea how to use python, but I am running out of time
to complete my assignment. Following is the code that given by
assignment but with bug which I have no idea how to debug.

temperature.py

# Temperature Conversion program called temperature.py

 

import string, sys

 

# If no arguments were given, print a helpful message

if len(sys.argv)==1:

    print 'Usage: celsius temp1 temp2 ...'

    sys.exit(0)

# Loop over the arguments

for i in sys.argv[1:]:

    try: 

        fahrenheit=float(string.atoi(i))

    except string.atoi_error:

      print repr(i), "not a numeric value"

    else:

      celsius=(fahrenheit-32)*5.0/9.0

      print '%i\260F = %i\260C' % (int(fahrenheit), int(celsius+.5))

After I type in the above code in new window save as temperature.py
when I click Run Module, Python show me the following error message

Usage: celsius temp1 temp2 ...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Python23/Temperature.py", line 15, in -toplevel-
    sys.exit(0)
SystemExit: 0

Anyone have idea how to solve this up... I am using python 2.3(IDLE)
(Python GUI)

Deadline of assignment is on next monday.


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 16 16:49:52 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:49:52 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
In-Reply-To: <fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
	<fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c37svj$jlu$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>> Is there any plan to make bindings of the future fox toolkit 1.2.x for
>> python? New widgets, antialiased fonts and so on is a "Good Thing".
>>
>> GTK is a pain, wxpython is horribly slow, and tkinter doesn't have
> 
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Your experience is clearly at odds with what most other people report 
> about wxPython.  (And, I might add, about GTK, as far as I can tell, 
> though I haven't used it myself.)

Agreed.  I've never felt wxPython was slow, and have heard that PyGTK is 
comparable (in terms of features, ease of use, etc.) to wxPython.

  - Josiah


From curzio.basso at unibas.ch  Thu Mar 11 09:40:14 2004
From: curzio.basso at unibas.ch (Curzio Basso)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:40:14 +0100
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
In-Reply-To: <c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40507a4e$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>

Radovan Garabik wrote:

> because neither in mathematics people agree on the order:
> a?b(x) == a(b(x)) or
> a?b(x) == b(a(x)) ?

Is this a joke or what?

In mathematics people DO agree on the order:

if a:B->A and b:X->B, then a?b:X->A and
(a?b)(x)=a(b(x))


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Mar  8 12:44:41 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:44:41 -0800
Subject: Initializing Member Variables
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E8E@opus.amorhq.net>

Scott Brady Drummonds wrote:
> class Keys:
>   __dict = {}
> 
>   def __init__(self, key):
>     self.__dict[key] = key
>     print('keys are now: %s' % self.__dict.keys())
> 
> Maybe this isn't strange for a Python developer, but it sure 
> is for me.  I
> thought that the "__dict = {}" line after the class 
> declaration was supposed
> to initialize that member variable for each object.  

This is normal, and someday you will use this feature to your advantage.
:) Your immediate issue is this: putting __dict = {} in the *class*
declaration does not make a separate attribute for each *instance*; it
merely makes a single attribute for the class. To create an attribute
for the class, you must write code which--surprise, surprise--adds that
attribute to the *instance*. For example, you might modify your code to:

class Keys:
    __dict = {}

    def __init__(self, key):
        self.__dict = {}
        self.__dict[key] = key
        print('keys are now: %s' % self.__dict.keys())


I'm going to be very explicit, now, so pay attention to each word: the
new line, "self.__dict = {}" creates a new dictionary, binds it to the
name "__dict", making it an attribute of the object named "self".

Without that extra line, Python will examine the object named "self",
find it has no instance attribute named "__dict", then examine the
*class* of the object named "self", find an attribute named "__dict",
and use that, which results in (behaves like) a static attribute for the
class.


Hope that helps.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 17 11:28:36 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:28:36 -0700
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<abbf50l09jdtlup5mpnudi5pm6f4q7ku41@4ax.com>
	<JWO5c.22497$8G2.3909@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bqug509tnghigbrf7i77auek9sqsbhr5be@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:42:49 GMT, Carl Banks
<imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:00:04 -0500, cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca
>> (David M. Cooke) wrote:
>> 
>>>Personally, almost all my uses of 'is' are of the form 'x is None' or
>>>'x is not None'.
>> 
>> Here are some more test results (averaging 10,000 evaluations in a
>> tight loop):
>> 
>>        time (sec)    %
>> Test 1: 3.68E-007   100.0 F is False
>> Test 2: 4.87E-007   132.1 F == False
>> Test 3: 3.71E-007   100.0 N is None
>> Test 4: 5.51E-007   148.6 N == None
>> 
>> The '== None' test is 49% slower than 'is None', but in absolute time,
>> the difference is only 180nec (on my new, but not top-speed PC).  So
>> it would take about 10 million of these comparisons in a short time to
>> make a noticable difference to the user.
>> 
>> I can't see where the 'is' test would *ever* be needed for the above
>> comparisons.
>
>
>Say you define the following class:
>
>    class SomeRankedObject:
>        def __init__(self,rank):
>            self.rank = rank
>        def __cmp__(self,other):
>            return cmp(self.rank,other.rank)
>
>
>Now, try to test it against None with "==":
>
>    x = SomeRankedObject()
>    x == None
>    
>
>Oops, the Python interpretter just chewed you out for trying to access
>the nonexistent 'rank' attribute of the None object.

Here is the test using Python 2.3.3:

>>> x = SomeRankedObject()
...
TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)  <== AS
EXPECTED
>>> x = SomeRankedObject(17)
>>> x == None
False                         <== AS EXPECTED
>>> 
Which version of Python are you using?

>If you want to test whether two expressions are the same object, use
>"is".  Otherwise, use "==".  Period.  It's as close to an absolute
>rule as you'll ever find in programming.

Your missing the point.  The question is why do we ever need to test
'x is None' instead of 'x == None'.

We should keep the definitions of 'is' and '==' as they are, but
discourage the use of 'is' unless you really do care if the tested
objects are the same objects in memory.

The importance of this is that implementation can change, even for
something as simple as the None object.  We just had a long discussion
on enhancing the Reload() function, and concluded that the desired
change (updating all references to reloaded objects) would require
preserving a unique identity for simple objects like 'a = 2', 'b =
None', etc., in the reloaded module.  So if this change is made, you
might find in some future version of Python that 'b is c' returns
False even though they have both been set to None.

Here is my "is" rule:

    Use 'is' to compare two references only if it is important that
    they refer to the same object in memory.

and its corrolary:

    Use '==' if all you are concerned about is equality of value.

-- Dave



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 29 02:03:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:03:37 +0200
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
References: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c48153$909$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c48ho9$d69$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> BALAJI RAMAN wrote:
>> Hello everybody!!!
>> 
>> I'm pretty much new to this OOP...
>> 
>> I have a problem..
>> 
>> Here is a part of code that I'm writing
>> 
>> class V(E):
>>     """ This is a variable for MPY"""
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         print id(self)
>>         check=[]
>>         check.append(id(self))
>>         self.val = None
>> 
>> what I do is call say v1=V() so it means that v1 belongs to the
>> variable class..
>> 
>> Again if I call v2=V() so now v2 also belong to this class.. I want
>> to keep a track of all the instances of this class.. and store their
>> ids in an array..
>> 
>> any help in this regards is appreciated...
> 
> The poor way of doing it is...
> 
> class V(E):
>      check = []
>      def __init__(self):
>          print id(self)
>          self.check.append(id(self))
>          self.val = None
> 
> The reason it is poor is because if an object is deleted, its id could
> be reused.
> 
> Instead, you should use weak references.  I've found the following to be
> useful on occasion...
> 
> import weakref
> 
> class V(E):
>      check = {}
>      def __init__(self):
>          #create a weak reference to yourself
>          #place it in the __olist
>          self.check[id(self)] = weakref.ref(self)
>      def __del__(self):
>          del self.check[id(self)]
>      def __repr__(self):
>          return str(id(self))
>      def get_olist(self):
>          #this creates a hard reference to every object
>          return [o() for o in self.check.values() if o() is not None]
> 
>   - Josiah

The __del__ method may not always be called. I find the WeakValueDictionary
handy (which internally uses callbacks I think).

import weakref 

class V:
    all = weakref.WeakValueDictionary() # required
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name
        V.all[id(self)] = self # required
    def __str__(self):
        return self.name
    __repr__ = __str__

v1 = V("v1")
v2 = V("v2")
print V.all.values()
del v1
print V.all.values()

Peter




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Mar 31 14:12:13 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:12:13 -0500
Subject: test for nan
References: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<mailman.186.1080754249.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnk7jx0zv8y.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     John> Is there a better way to test for NaN than
>
>     John>    str(p1)=='nan'
>
>     John> where p1 is a float?
>
> Saw this in the list archives earlier today:
>
>     >>> inf = float("1e9999")
>     >>> inf
>     Inf
>     >>> nan = inf-inf
>     >>> nan
>     NaN
>     >>> p1 = 5.0
>     >>> p1 == nan
>     False

The last line doesn't work for me:

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 24 2004, 09:29:20) 
[GCC 3.3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> inf = float('1e9999')
>>> inf
inf
>>> nan = inf - inf
>>> nan
nan
>>> p1 = 5.0
>>> p1 == nan
True

hmmm... Have to admit that looks funny.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From bob at redivi.com  Tue Mar  2 14:11:10 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:11:10 -0500
Subject: time.sleep()
References: <c22icd$s8s$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2004030214111016807%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-02 13:05:01 -0500, Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> said:

> Does standard C have anything like Python's time.sleep() function?

It's not really "standard" but you can usually get away with nanosleep 
or select.

-bob



From klaus.oberpichler at freenet.de  Sun Mar 14 12:35:39 2004
From: klaus.oberpichler at freenet.de (Klaus Oberpichler)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:35:39 +0100
Subject: Newbie question on wxNotebook
Message-ID: <c3255r$fgb$1@news.gatel.net>

Can anyone please tell me why my notebook is not visible?
Thanks in advance!

Klaus

from wxPython.wx import *

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

## Create a new frame class, derived from the wxPython Frame.
class MyFrame(wxFrame):

    def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
        # First, call the base class' __init__ method to create the frame
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, id, title,
                         wxPoint(100, 100), wxSize(400, 400))

        # Create a menu
        self.mnu = wxMenuBar()

        menu1 = wxMenu()
        menu1.Append(wxNewId(), "&Mercury", "This the text in the
Statusbar")
        menu1.Append(wxNewId(), "&Venus", "")
        menu1.Append(wxNewId(), "&Earth", "You may select Earth too")
        menu1.AppendSeparator()
        menu1.Append(wxNewId(), "&Close", "Close this frame")

        self.mnu.Append(menu1,"&Datei")
        self.SetMenuBar(self.mnu)

        # Create a toolbar
        self.tb = self.CreateToolBar()

        # Create a statusbar
        self.sb = self.CreateStatusBar()

        # Create notebook
        nb = wxNotebook(self, -1)
        panel1 = wxPanel(nb, -1)
        panel2 = wxPanel(nb, -1)
        nb.AddPage(panel1, "Panel 1")
        nb.AddPage(panel2, "Panel 2")


        # Associate some events with methods of this class
        EVT_SIZE(self, self.OnSize)
        EVT_MOVE(self, self.OnMove)



    # This method is called automatically when the CLOSE event is
    # sent to this window
    def OnCloseWindow(self, event):
        # tell the window to kill itself
        self.Destroy()


    # This method is called by the System when the window is resized,
    # because of the association above.
    def OnSize(self, event):
        size = event.GetSize()
        print "size:", size.width, size.height

    # This method is called by the System when the window is moved,
    # because of the association above.
    def OnMove(self, event):
        pos = event.GetPosition()
        print "pos:", pos.x, pos.y


#class TestNB(wxNotebook):
#    def __init__(self, parent, id):
#        wxNotebook.__init__(self, parent, id, style=
#                            #wxNB_TOP
#                            wxNB_BOTTOM
#                            #wxNB_LEFT
#                            #wxNB_RIGHT
#                            )

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

# Every wxWindows application must have a class derived from wxApp
class MyApp(wxApp):

    # wxWindows calls this method to initialize the application
    def OnInit(self):

        # Create an instance of our customized Frame class
        frame = MyFrame(NULL, -1, "This is a test")
        frame.Show(true)

        # Tell wxWindows that this is our main window
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)

        # Return a success flag
        return true

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

app = MyApp(0)     # Create an instance of the application class
app.MainLoop()     # Tell it to start processing events

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-







From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 22:14:22 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:14:22 -0800
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
References: <mailman.64.1079489723.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4057C28E.92965723@alcyone.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> I get the following error message.
> 
> [antony at ancho tmp]$ python snake.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "snake.py", line 6, in ?
>     print a
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
> characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in range(256)
> [antony at ancho tmp]$
> 
> What is the problem please?

The problem is the default encoding is Latin-1, presumably because
that's the only thing your xterm/virtual console understands.  So Python
is rightly complaining that it can't print the Chinese characters for
you.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ In this world, nothing is certain but death and taxes.
    -- Benjamin Franklin


From dontaskme at doityourself.com  Sat Mar 20 14:05:11 2004
From: dontaskme at doityourself.com (Meno)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 11:05:11 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9c2d8268.0403201105.1feebf1a@posting.google.com>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some 
> and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language 
> similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  [...]

Well on windows platforms, Python programs can be compiled to a binary
form using py2exe (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)


From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 15 17:47:06 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:47:06 +0000
Subject: Stop code in python!!
References: <4055bb8c$0$794$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
	<ahsb50lbsk60d3md0s99a4r1cjoscgvi9s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1079390825.37545.1@demeter.uk.clara.net>

In message <ahsb50lbsk60d3md0s99a4r1cjoscgvi9s at 4ax.com>, Alan Gauld wrote:

> raw_input("Hit Enter to quit...")

And remember that you can do raw_input() without any message.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Tue Mar  2 19:05:38 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:05:38 +0000
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1078239723.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dv7a409akh74nbpdgh0rnncj0ctve2rihf@4ax.com>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:02:19 +0100, gabor <gabor at z10n.net> wrote:
> i always wanted to ask this...
> why people use GVIm and not the normal-vim-in-a-terminal?

Mouse support
	marking regions, 
	resizing windows, 
	Pinnable menus
	The toolbar
Better colour choices.
Better integration with Windoze(clipboard etc)
Bigger windows (but an xterm fixes that...)

Those are my main reasons.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From duanev at io.com  Thu Mar 18 17:48:36 2004
From: duanev at io.com (duane voth)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:48:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: tkinter, threads and asyncore together
Message-ID: <20040318224836.BA6544DA8@djv.net>

> #to control asyncore
> while 1:
>     asyncore.loop(.1)
>     if not fromgui.empty():
>         #handle messages from GUI

The above doesn't work for me - asyncore.loop(<anything>) always blocks.
The asyncore.poll(timeout=0.01) functions however works fine.  Thus I have:

        while 1:
            tkinter.dooneevent(tkinter.DONT_WAIT)
            asyncore.poll(0.01)

--
Duane Voth
duanev at io.com
--
djv at djv.net




From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sun Mar 14 16:17:21 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:17:21 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
References: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u9tei1-qqo.ln1@valpo.de>
	<c32jtn$23i7d1$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2ouei1-u2q.ln1@valpo.de>

Luca T. wrote:
> This leaves me with "su"... but there is a problem... "su" doesn't
> execute any command, it just gives you a "prompt" as root (or
> another user)... how can use this?

Please read su(1) until you find the answer. Or use the right group;)

Mathias


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Mar  1 16:27:22 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:27:22 +0100
Subject: vim & python
In-Reply-To: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040301212722.GB6304@nl.linux.org>

sb wrote:
> Is it possible to enable "calltips" while editing python documents
> with vim?

I don't think so.

> I've heard the biggest python gurus use vim. *Please* post some
> screenshots of you in action - some interesting things like
>    - calltips, 
>    - editor-shell interaction
>    - reference manual invocation by keyword from within the editor
>    - object browser, 
>    - etc. 
> Or are you using vim just like C coders do?

I'm using it 'like C coders', if that means that I do happily use syntax
highlighting, auto-indentation and line-numbering, but not anything
else.

Note that I'm not one of the biggest python gurus ;-)

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 01/03 20:25 UTC:
	3.0??C   wind 3.6 m/s W (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Tue Mar 30 11:15:31 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:15:31 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>

# It is a shame that the only limitation of a great is documentation.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you are implying that good docs
make a great language, you're mistaken.  After all, you're advocating
Java in a python forum.  I do agree that java has good documentation,
but I not think Java should be considered "great" in any capacity.  If
the python docs are so bad, you should be specific about how and why.
Python is great for countless other reasons which are unrelated to
documentation.  I think the python docs are exceptional.

# Is the Tutorial and Module documentation on python.org enough?

I think so, but there are plenty of API-level facilities for getting
documentation on modules and functions.  If you have already written
two medium-complexity programs, then surely you have gone through
enough of the tutorial to know about foo.__doc__.

# What would it take to develop an JavaDoc like repository.

You're not going to get a flat list of functions and classes in python
like you do with the javadoc pages.  Python development proceeds in an
entirely different way, I think.  Your idea isn't necessarily a bad
one, but I think your idea of what docs should be is obviously heavily
influenced by your Java background; it's not necessarily better or
worse, it's just different.

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From d.chirila at finsiel.ro  Fri Mar 19 07:16:04 2004
From: d.chirila at finsiel.ro (Dragos Chirila)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:16:04 +0200
Subject: Zope with Python
References: <c3ennc$26ip36$1@ID-65440.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <001901c40dab$f35d1930$2f01a8c0@dchirila>

Hi

int is a "global" method not a method from math module, so write like this:

<dtml-var expr="_.int(ANZAHL) + 1">

Dragos



> Hy,
> 
> I'm using following code.
> 
> <dtml-in expr="sqlBestandGetKuerzel(KURZFORM='B',BEREICH='01')">
>   B/<dtml-var RUBRIK>/<dtml-var expr="_.math.int(ANZAHL) + 1">
> </dtml-in>
> 
> Whats wrong with it. I'm always getting the following error:
> Error Type: AttributeError
> Error Value: 'math' module has no attribute 'int'
> 
> Can anybody help me please.
> 
> Bye,
> Holger
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Thu Mar 25 10:40:41 2004
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:40:41 -0500
Subject: Converting IBM Floats..Help..
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFD@pippin.int.etrials.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to read from a file which contains numbers encoded in IBM360 (Big-Endian) Floating point format. The IBM stores its numbers in the following format :

*
* IBM format:
* 6       5                 0
* 3       1                 0
*
* SEEEEEEEMMMM ......... MMMM
*
* Sign bit, 7 bit exponent, 56 bit fraction. Exponent is
* excess 64. The fraction is multiplied by a power of 16 of
* the actual exponent. Normalized floating point numbers are
* represented with the radix point immediately to the left of
* the high order hex fraction digit.

I know what's in this file so :

 data = list(file.read(8))
 print data
 
 155 = ['B', '\x9b', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00'] 
  77 = ['B', 'M', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']
   1 = ['A', '\x10', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']
   0 = ['\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']

This is where my computer science breaks down. I'm pretty sure I'm going to need the struct module and some bitwise operations but I'm stuck. Anyone have some advice for me? 

Thank you.




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 10 07:57:53 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:57:53 +0100
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2kt5q$1uonf0$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1078921034.4651.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <c2n3ci$nu6$00$2@news.t-online.com>

DomF wrote:

>> > I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.
>>
>> - write to a file
>> - load the file as module :-)
> 
> This made me laugh out loud after reading all the heavy duty parsing
> options, is that bad?

It's just like eval and exec in that it allows to execute untrusted code.

Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  1 11:26:57 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 11:26:57 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <c1vo8h$n5p$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Nicolas Fleury  <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>
>	I just discovered, correct me if I'm wrong, that as long as a 
>threading.Thread is running, its destructor will not be called, because 
>it is referring to himself.  So if I have something like:
>
>class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.cancelEvent = threading.Event()
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>     def __del__(self):
>         self.cancel()
>     def run(self):
>         self.cancelEvent.wait()
>     def cancel(self):
>         self.cancelEvent.set()
>
>I must call cancel from the outside if I want the destructor to be 
>called (note that I don't want deamon threads).  I can make a wrapper 
>over threading.Thread to have the behaviour I want: have a thread with 
>__del__ called when it is not referred by another thread.  But my 
>question is, and I don't have an overall vision of the issue at all, 
>should that be the default behaviour anyway?

Yes, Don't Do That.  Do not rely on finalizers for external resources
(such as threads).

Note that your understanding of Python's memory management could use some
improvement: GC *never* runs on objects containing __del__
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From tyler at NOSPAMml1.net  Tue Mar 23 22:50:38 2004
From: tyler at NOSPAMml1.net (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:50:38 GMT
Subject: Vector math
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.24.03.52.35.703059@NOSPAMml1.net>

I'm look for a module that can do the following operations on vectors

- Cross product
- Angle between two vectors
- rotate a 3d point around an arbitrary axis by an arbitrary amount. 

Actually, the 3 are related. The net effect of rotating around a cross
product of two vectors by the angle between them is to essentially realign
a vector from one coordinate system.



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Fri Mar 26 23:03:18 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:03:18 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
Message-ID: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

I have just spent several weeks mashing xmlrpc, httplib and SSL (from
M2Crypto) to work together.  The current standard library has several
problems:

  - Builtin SSL is pretty much useless if you actually care
    about security
  - Poor HTTP authentication support
  - No server side stuff (SSL, HTTP authentication etc)
  - Pathological coding to ensure that at most one request is
    sent on a connection, rather than reusing an already open
    connection (http/1.1 keepalives)
  - Pathological coding to ensure that connections are closed
    from as many different places as possible
  - A broken model for dealing with who owns a connection socket.
    It all started when someone added a 'makefile' method that
    returned a dup'ed file descriptor since all there are
    all those close calls everywhere, so the reference counting
    sort of works on UNIX (where dup is a normal operation).
    This leads to even more heroic coding to work around the
    explicitly coded close's everywhere, and implement yet
    another layer of reference counting and encapsulation.
  - No real possibility of dealing with things like automatically
    reopening connections (eg if you have an HTTP/1.1 connection,
    make a request, stay idle for so long the other end closes the
    connection, and then try to send a new one)

I now have code that works for me and my project.  However it
wouldn't really be appropriate for going back into the standard
library because it spends most of its time having to subvert the
design and implementation of the existing classes.

However I was wondering if anyone was working on fixing the
(IMHO horrible) mess and wants any moral support?

Roger





From waters at porkless.net  Tue Mar  2 10:21:59 2004
From: waters at porkless.net (waters)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:21:59 -0700
Subject: Novice [].append Help
In-Reply-To: <1047oejec1h8hcf@news.supernews.com>
References: <c20iig08ip@enews1.newsguy.com>
	<1047oejec1h8hcf@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c228mu0tnm@enews2.newsguy.com>

John Roth wrote:
> You've fallen into one of the little traps. There's only *one*
> copy of the l_format list, and it's being bound to l_local each
> time through the loop. Assignment is *not* creating a copy of
> the l_format list; it's reusing it, so each slot in the l_output list
> is pointing to the *same* list, which of course contains the last
> value you put into it.
> 
> If you change the 4th line to:
> 
> l_local = list(l_format)
> 
> it will work because the list type will produce a copy.
> 
> John Roth

Thanks for this, and all subsequent replies. Will keep an eye out for 
these (coder-induced) assignment issues.


From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Wed Mar 24 05:12:11 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:12:11 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <c3rego$eeq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<c3r2vq$3ci$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jN98c.13979$JB2.2819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c3rego$eeq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <%9d8c.14013$fV3.9853@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> 
>> If the generator is something like /dev/urandom or Win32's 
>> CryptGenRandom, you don't want the repeated system call overhead of 
>> dipping into it 32 bits at a time.
>> [...]
> 
> Do like a standard file read does, buffer some extra bytes for the 
> future, 4k should be sufficient for most needs.

That's doable.  But then, for large strings the loop you presented would 
be slow.

The caller could read bigger chunks at a time.  But then every subclass 
has to implement getrandbits() for large integers, which is 
unnecessarily complicated and an unnecessary detour from byte strings to 
longs and back again for subclasses where the data starts as strings.

Unless you're saying some subclasses could implement getrandbits(), and 
some getrandstring(), and the base class would synthesize whichever is 
missing?


[..]
> As provided, using bits or bytes, it is easy to convert either way. 

You're right, conversion isn't hard, so this isn't a big deal.  I just 
think it's neater my way :-).

(Conversion would be even easier if Python had a built-in way to convert 
byte strings to longs.  Maybe something like:

bigNumber = long(bigNumberString, 256)

bigNumberString = bigNumber.tostring()

It would use network-byte order (big-endian).  At least, that's what's 
used for cryptography, and ASN.1, and the bignum libraries I've seen.)


> While there are sources that are better suited for generating bytes 
> (which you provide), there are entropy producers that give bits at a 
> time.  If I remember correctly, there is a serial port, USB, processor 
> and even chipset entropy generators that all produce bits (some faster 
> than others).

I bet the APIs for these sources return some number of bytes.

Having to return bits is ungainly cause what if the caller wants, say, 7 
of them?  You gotta buffer the excess bit, and then tack it on to the 
next call.

(Actually, the current getrandbits() doesn't do that, it just discards 
excess bits.  So with 2 generators in the same state, calling 
getrandbits(32) and getrandbits(16) twice won't get the same bits. 
Doesn't seem right, exactly).


>> [..]The only benefit 
>> of MT vs. a SHA-based generator is speed.
> 
> 
> I could have sworn the other was that MT had cycle that seemed to be 
> provably longer than any pure SHA based generator.

I don't think that's worth worrying about: even if you're feeding-back 
the SHA values, it shouldn't cycle till around 2^80, which is huge, and 
you should be re-seeding periodically anyways.  You can also use a 
counter instead of feeding back values.

(but I'm no expert, and I haven't been following that discussion, so 
don't take this seriously).

Trevor


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 07:43:25 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:43:25 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:27:36 +1100, user at domain.invalid wrote:

>Ellinghaus, Lance wrote:
>
>> I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
>> would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()? 
>> 
>> Would this be done by "del sys.modules['modulename']" and then perform an
>> 'import'?
>
>Ah, interesting! I've been doing this:
>
>del modulename; import modulename
>
>but it doesn't pick up any recent changes to the 
>modulename.py file.
>
>That's a better solution than exiting Python and 
>starting it up again. Thanks!

This doesn't work.  It doesn't matter if you first "del modulename".
All that does is remove the reference to "modulename" from the current
namespace.

   testimport.py
a = 8
print 'a =', a

>>> import testimport
a = 8
>>> ## ==> change a to 9 in testimport.py
>>> testimport.a
8
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'testimport']
>>> del testimport
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__']
>>> import testimport
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'testimport']
>>> testimport.a
8  <== The old module is still in memory !!!
>>> a = testimport.a
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'a', 'testimport']
>>> reload(testimport)
a = 9
>>> testimport.a
9  <== reload() changes new fully-qualified references
>>> a
8  <== but not any other references that were set up before.
>>> 

I know this is the *intended* behavior of reload(), but it has always
seemed to me like a bug.  Why would you *ever* want to keep pieces of
an old module when that module is reloaded?

Seems to me we should *fix* reload, not deprecate it.

-- Dave



From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Fri Mar  5 00:55:36 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 21:55:36 -0800
Subject: Python Event in India ..
References: <mailman.6.1078410253.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0403042155.3a05f56c@posting.google.com>

long time b4 i started writting small introductory book/booklet on
python, when i first time introduced it, i think wanna complete it..

and i did lot of expieiriments and developed some apps, i think we
should release them under a site ..shall anyone book domain
pythonica.org ??


From noah at noah.org  Tue Mar 16 14:14:43 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 11:14:43 -0800
Subject: Start and control an extern program
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403161114.1f839bfa@posting.google.com>

Axel Koehler <axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de> wrote in message news:<kpd67jfdk4.fsf at rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>...
> Hallo, 
> I want to start an extern program  and simple stop it, after a
> given time, if not succesfull finished.  
> OS is Linux
> Axel

You could try the Pexpect library.
    http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
It allows you to start an external program and then wait for a given result 
with a given timeout. Pexpect has a default timeout of 30 seconds, but 
you can change that. The result that you are looking for can be 
any string that you expect in the output. The string can be a 
regular expression pattern. So you could write code like this:

import pexpect
child = pexpect.spawn ('my_external_program', timeout=120) # Two minute timeout.
index = p.expect (['results_you_are_looking_for', pexpect.TIMEOUT])
if index == 0:
    do_something ()
elif index == 1:
    child.kill (9)
    child.close ()

Yours,
Noah


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Mar  4 02:12:11 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:12:11 +0100
Subject: Unicode & mx.ODBC module
References: <40466a21$0$7052$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>
Message-ID: <c26ksc$9c1$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>


"Chuck Bearden" <cbearden at hal-pc.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:40466a21$0$7052$a726171b at news.hal-pc.org...
| I'm having a tough time understanding how to manage Unicode when loading
| data into an MS SQL server. <snipped for brevity>

...

| html_f = open(sys.argv[1], 'r')
| htmldata = html_f.read()
| html_f.close()
|
| #-- make statement string and insert values tuple, and execute
| stmnt = """
|   INSERT INTO pmLinkHTML
|   (PMID, Ord, HTML, HTMLlen)
|   VALUES
|   (?, ?, ?, ?)
| """
| val_t = (549, 0, htmldata, len(htmldata))
| cur.execute(stmnt, val_t)
|
| cur.close()
| con.close()
| --------------------------end snippet--------------------------
|
| For my pains I am rewarded with:
|
|   Traceback (most recent call last):
|     File "./unitest.py", line 27, in ?
|       cur.execute(stmnt, val_t)
|   UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xbe in position
|   45662: unexpected code byte
|
| Byte 45662 of the HTML file is indeed "\xBE".  I don't think that should
| be a problem.
|
| What am I doing wrong?

What happens if you decode htmldata first by using

enc = "iso-8859-1" #change to whatever the input file's encoding is
htmldata = unicode(htmldata, enc)

?

Vincent Wehren


 I have spent a fair bit of time googling the
| ng in various ways, and consulting Python in a Nutshell and the online
| standard library docs at python.org.  It may be something quite
| obvious to a better-informed coder, but I am prepared to learn.
|
| Many thanks in advance.
| Chuck Bearden
|
|




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 14:56:07 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:56:07 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16479.17623.587741.201185@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> If easing the creation of class methods is so important, I would prefer 

    AdSR> Just done a quick check:

    AdSR> $ find /lib/python2.3/ -name "*.py" -exec egrep
    AdSR> "(class|static)method\W" {} ';' | wc --lines
    AdSR>      49

    AdSR> Not all of them are calls, and all this in 773 *.py files. I guess
    AdSR> this says something about importance...

Not necessarily.  Certainly there's the fact that class and static methods
will be less frequently used than normal methods.  However, there are also
another mitigating factors as I see it, neither classmethod() nor
staticmethod() have been around all that long (2.2 timeframe).

I will reiterate my comment from before:  PEP 318 is about more than just
static and class methods.  Here are a few examples from the python-dev
discussion.

  1.  From Fred Drake:

    As an (admittedly trivial) example, I'd be quite happy for:

        class Color [valuemap]:
            red = rgb(255, 0, 0)
            blue  = rgb(0, 255, 0)
            green = rgb(0, 0, 255)

    to cause the name Color to be bound to a non-callable object.  Why must
    the decorators be required to return callables?  It will not make sense
    in all circumstances when a decorator is being used.

  2.  From Anders Munch:

    Given that the decorator expression can be an arbitrary Python
    expression, it _will_ be used as such. For example:

    def foo(arg1, arg2) as release(
            version="1.0",
            author="me",
            status="Well I wrote it so it works, m'kay?",
            warning="You might want to use the Foo class instead"):

  3.  From Shane Hathaway:

    Ooh, what about this:

         def singleton(klass):
             return klass()

         class MyThing [singleton]:
             ...

    That would be splendid IMHO.

There are plenty of other examples.  Browse the archives.

think-outside-the-bun-(tm)-ly, y'rs,

Skip



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 23:35:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:35:29 -0500
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
In-Reply-To: <406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
	<ZrGdnR9BRZRIfvTdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <eeydnYRUpqQM1_fdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Olaf Meding wrote:

>>... put the failing code in a function ...
> 
> This line of code is already inside some function!
>   s = sys.stdin.read(4)
> Causes this PyChecker error:
>   IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> 
> Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Are you _certain_ that this function is not being executed
during import?  I'd be surprised if the form of the error
messages (warnings?) which PyChecker outputs exactly matches
what you show above, which strongly appears to be a standard
Python exception (and which would therefore be generated _only_
when the code is being executed).

Can you strip out all the non-relevant code in that module
in such a way that it still produces the error, and post
the failing code (assuming it's only a half dozen lines or
so)?  Then at least someone else can try running it and
see what's going on, or we can point out the error of your
ways if that's the situation...

-Peter


From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Mon Mar 29 05:25:34 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:25:34 +0200
Subject: Interesting problem - wxTextCtrl
Message-ID: <13913181704.20040329122534@anonym.hu>

Hello !

I want to create a tool for mp3 files in wx.

Some sections of the code (see below) is copied from wx demo.

Problems:
1.) the wxStaticText is not centered vertically
2.) the wxTextCtrl is not editable, it is cannot get the focus.
Why ?

My machine OS: winxp.
Python: 2.3,
Wx: for python 2.3

The demo is working, but only my code is not working !
Why ?

Thanx for every help !

FT

PS:
 Please send the answers to my private mail address too, because I'm
 in digest mode.


#!/usr/bin/python
from wxPython.wx import *
from wxPython.grid import *
from freedb import *


class MainFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        kwds["style"] = wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE
        wxFrame.__init__(self, *args, **kwds)
        self.AlbumGrid=None
        self.Albums=None
        self.MainSizer=wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
        self.toppanel = wxPanel(self, -1)
        self.bottompanel = wxPanel(self, -1)
        self.centpanel = wxPanel(self, -1)
        self.toppanel.SetSize((592, 23))
        self.bottompanel.SetSize((592, 24))
        self.MainSizer.Add(self.toppanel,0, wxEXPAND|wxALIGN_CENTER_HORIZONTAL, 0)
        self.MainSizer.Add(self.centpanel,1,wxALL|wxEXPAND,0)
        self.MainSizer.Add(self.bottompanel,1, wxEXPAND|wxALIGN_CENTER_HORIZONTAL, 0)
        self.SetAutoLayout(1)
        self.SetSizer(self.MainSizer)

        self.btnExit = wxButton(self.toppanel, 1220, "Exit")
        EVT_BUTTON(self, 1220, self.Exit)
        self.btnSearch = wxButton(self.toppanel, 1221, "Search")
        EVT_BUTTON(self, 1221, self.OnClickBtn)
        self.Text=wxTextCtrl(self, -1, "Search Text", size=(125, -1))
        self.Text.SetInsertionPoint(0)
        EVT_CHAR(self.Text,self.EvtChar)
        self.Label=wxStaticText(self, -1, "Search:")
        self.Label.SetBackgroundColour(self.toppanel.GetBackgroundColour())
        topsizer = wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)
        topsizer.Add(self.Label, 0,wxLEFT|wxHORIZONTAL|wxVERTICAL|wxALIGN_CENTER_VERTICAL,2)
        topsizer.Add(self.Text, 1,wxLEFT|wxHORIZONTAL,2)
        topsizer.Add(self.btnSearch, 1,wxLEFT|wxHORIZONTAL,2)
        topsizer.Add(self.btnExit, 1, wxLEFT|wxHORIZONTAL,2)
        self.toppanel.SetAutoLayout(1)
        self.toppanel.SetSizer(topsizer)
        topsizer.SetSizeHints(self.toppanel)

        self.centersizer=wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)
        self.centpanel.SetAutoLayout(1)
        self.centpanel.SetSizer(self.centersizer)
        self.centersizer.SetSizeHints(self.centpanel)

        self.bottomsizer=wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)
        self.bottompanel.SetAutoLayout(1)
        self.bottompanel.SetSizer(self.bottomsizer)
        self.bottomsizer.SetSizeHints(self.bottompanel)

        self.Layout()
        self.Centre()
        self.SetTitle("FreeDB Search Dialog")
        _icon = wxEmptyIcon()
        #_icon.CopyFromBitmap(wxBitmap("EXITEML.ico", wxBITMAP_TYPE_ANY))
        #self.SetIcon(_icon)
        self.SetSize((640, 480))
        self.SetBackgroundColour(wxColour(94, 138, 244))
        self.Centre()
        # end wxGlade

    def EvtChar(self, event):
        cc=event.GetKeyCode()
        if (cc==13):
           self.OnClick(None)
           event.Skip()
        #self.log.WriteText('EvtChar: %d\n' % event.GetKeyCode())



    def OnClickBtn(self,event):
        s=self.Text.GetValue()
        import freedb
        albums=freedb.freedb_search('Last Night Another Soldier',criteria="all")
        def sf(a1,a2):
            l1=[a1.artist,a1.title,a1.checksum,a1.versions]
            l2=[a2.artist,a2.title,a2.checksum,a2.versions]
            for i in range(len(l1)):
                s1=str(l1[i]).strip();s2=str(l2[i]).strip()
                if s1<>s1:
                  if s1>s2: return 1
                  else: return -1
            return 0
        albums.sort(sf)
        self.Albums=albums
        self.ShowAlbums()

    def ShowAlbums(self):
        if self.AlbumGrid<>None:
           self.AlbumGrid.Destroy()
           self.AlbumGrid=None
        self.AlbumGrid=grid=wxGrid(self.centpanel,-1)
        albs=self.Albums
        self.AlbumGrid.CreateGrid(len(albs),4)
        EVT_GRID_CELL_LEFT_DCLICK(grid,self.OnSub)
        grid.SetColLabelValue(0,"ID")
        grid.SetColLabelValue(1,"Artist")
        grid.SetColLabelValue(2,"Title")
        grid.SetColLabelValue(3,"Versions")
        grid.SetColSize(0,80)
        grid.SetColSize(1,192)
        grid.SetColSize(2,160)
        grid.SetColSize(3,80)
        for idx in range(len(albs)):
            alb=albs[idx]
            grid.SetCellValue(idx,0,alb.checksum)
            grid.SetCellValue(idx,1,alb.artist)
            grid.SetCellValue(idx,2,alb.title)
            grid.SetCellValue(idx,3,str(alb.versions))
        self.centersizer.Add(self.AlbumGrid,1,wxALL|wxEXPAND,4)
        self.SubGrid=None
        self.SubGrid2=None
        self.centpanel.Layout()

    def OnSub(self,e):
        albs=self.Albums
        r=e.GetRow()
        alb=albs[r]
        self.XAlbum=xalb=alb.load()
        if self.SubGrid<>None: self.SubGrid.Destroy()
        if self.SubGrid2<>None: self.SubGrid2.Destroy()
        self.SubGrid=grid=wxGrid(self.bottompanel,-1)
        self.SubGrid2=grid2=wxGrid(self.bottompanel,-1)
        grid.CreateGrid(len(xalb.tracks),1)
        grid2.CreateGrid(6,1)
        grid.SetColSize(0,128)
        grid.SetColLabelValue(0,"Title")
        grid2.SetRowLabelValue(0,"DiscID")
        grid2.SetRowLabelValue(1,"Artist")
        grid2.SetRowLabelValue(2,"Title")
        grid2.SetRowLabelValue(3,"Versions")
        grid2.SetRowLabelValue(4,"Genre")
        grid2.SetRowLabelValue(5,"Year")
        grid2.SetColLabelValue(0,"Value")
        grid2.SetColSize(0,128)
        #grid.SetColSize(1,192)
        for i in range(len(xalb.tracks)):
            data=str(xalb.tracks[i][0]).strip()
            grid.SetCellValue(i,0,data)
        grid2.SetCellValue(2,0,str(xalb.dtitle))
        grid2.SetCellValue(0,0,str(xalb.discid))
        grid2.SetCellValue(1,0,str(alb.artist))
        grid2.SetCellValue(2,0,str(alb.versions))
        grid2.SetCellValue(5,0,str(xalb.dyear))
        grid2.SetCellValue(4,0,str(xalb.dgenre))
        self.bottomsizer.Add(grid2,1,wxALL|wxEXPAND,4)
        self.bottomsizer.Add(grid,1,wxALL|wxEXPAND,4)
        self.bottompanel.Layout()
        e.Skip()

    def Exit(self,e):
        self.Destroy()


# end of class MyFrame


class FDApplication(wxApp):
    def __init__(self,Param,MainFrameClass):
        self.MainFrameClass=MainFrameClass
        wxApp.__init__(self,Param)
        self.MainFrameClass.Application=self
    def OnInit(self):
        wxInitAllImageHandlers()
        MainFrame=self.MainFrameClass(None, -1, "")
        #MainFrame=self.MainFrame
        #print MainFrame
        self.SetTopWindow(MainFrame)
        MainFrame.ID=-1
        MainFrame.Show(1)
        return 1


if __name__ == "__main__":
   app=FDApplication(0,MainFrame)
   app.MainLoop()


  

-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                          mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu




From heavens7s at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 10:01:52 2004
From: heavens7s at hotmail.com (Joe)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 07:01:52 -0800
Subject: mounting network drives in macosx
Message-ID: <560d84ab.0403030701.2454d4c3@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to mount a network share from within Python on MacOSX? 
I imagine it would be the same as for Unix, but I don't know how to do
it for Unix either.  I have searched python.org and googled a lot
without success.  Any help here is greatly appreciated.  Thanks all!


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Mar  6 12:16:32 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:16:32 -0500
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
References: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hHn2c.17046$JZ6.596354@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-AEE793.11085806032004 at reader2.panix.com...
>Not to mention that I don't
> see how to get a handle to the module from inside the module, i.e.
> there's no "self".

There are a couple of ways to get hold of the module from inside. My
previous post contained a link to one method. Here's a couple of other
quick ways:

import __main__ as main

or

>>> main = __import__(__name__)
>>> main.a = "A"
>>> a
'A'
>>> main.__dict__
{'a': 'A', '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>,  ...  }





From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Mar 17 19:05:42 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 16:05:42 -0800
Subject: attributes of Python classes
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com>

I have started using classes with Python and have a question
about their use.

In Python, 'attributes are all "public" and "virtual" in C++ 
terms; they're all accessible everywhere and all looked up 
dynamically at runtime' (Quoting "Learning Python", 2nd. ed., 
p367). It seems to me that two good conventions are to 

(1) initialize all attributes in the __init__ function
(2) avoid creating new attributes elsewhere that are not initialized in
    __init__

I have not followed these conventions so far, and sometimes
it is difficult for me to tell what attributes an instance of
a class has. Are these conventions good?


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 12:40:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1078501562.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.23.1078501562.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jYmdnd38GpgTJtXdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

jon c wrote:
> well the cammand is
> 
> java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries 
> application-name

Okay, I accept that the string being passed in is very long, and that 
the details aren't relevant here.  How about some example code?  From 
the Perl one that works, and the Python one that doesn't.  There are a 
dozen ways of invoking external programs...

> the total string is 6809 characters long.

This is likely far too long for the Windows command line, but perhaps 
2000 is more sophisticated than I would expect...

> I do not know the allowed character length (I am using windows 2000)
> 
> but perl just runs the command fine, whereas python results in
> 
> The following character string is too long:

Is that the sum total of the error message?  Is it coming from Python, 
or from the shell, or what?  Sometimes cutting and pasting the actual 
string helps.  Unless that's really all there was, other than the string 
itself.

Without more info, all I can suggest is try using popen instead of 
os.system, but that's just guessing since we don't know you _are_ using 
os.system right now.

-Peter


From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Fri Mar 26 02:55:16 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 08:55:16 +0100
Subject: Python in the laboratory
Message-ID: <cthu10chwkb.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>


Hi,

I've write a GUI using python/wxPython to control a machine in the 
laboratory (a x-ray powder diffractometer). Now I've to write some 
papers defending the goodness of python for such aplications. 
Can s0mebody give me references about projects of this nature?

Thanks in advance

Zunbeltz


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar  9 16:55:22 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:55:22 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<5sbs40l90vpumpp3u72a4259gp83j4mfih@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-D80C5F.16552209032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <5sbs40l90vpumpp3u72a4259gp83j4mfih at 4ax.com>,
 Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> I'm just me.

Yeah, that's what they all say.


From faizan at jaredweb.com  Tue Mar 16 16:44:55 2004
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 13:44:55 -0800
Subject: Timeouts with urllib2
References: <7b454334.0403151037.3e78dca9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1.1079382673.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0403161344.299c3bb3@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1.1079382673.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Fazer> I was wondering what's the best way of setting timeouts when
>     Fazer> working with urllib2.
> 
> Using 2.3+:
> 
>     >>> import socket
>     >>> socket.setdefaulttimeout(3)
>     >>> import urllib2
>     >>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.musi-cal.com/search?performers=Greg+Brown")
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>       File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 130, in urlopen
>         return _opener.open(url, data)
>       File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 338, in open
>         response = self._open(req, data)
>       File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 356, in _open
>         '_open', req)
>       File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 317, in _call_chain
>         result = func(*args)
>       File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 988, in http_open
>         return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>       File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 971, in do_open
>         raise URLError(err)
>     urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error timed out>
> 
> Skip

Wow thanks!  Any idea how I can accomplish this in Python 2.2 versions?


From 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it  Mon Mar 22 09:18:48 2004
From: 00515879256 at fastwebnet.it (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:18:48 +0100
Subject: httplib throw a proxy
In-Reply-To: <405ee614$0$309$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <%lA7c.4248$jY1.3441@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<405ee614$0$309$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <LBC7c.4593$jY1.3055@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

F. Petitjean wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:45:28 +0100, Glauco <00515879256 at fastwebnet.it> wrote:
> 
>>I'm using a library based on httplib.
>>
>>Now, the problem is passing throw an http_proxy.
>>It seems because httplib (based on socket.py) try to autenticate on the 
>>proxy.
>>
>>
>>I'm only with this problem ? it's impossible :-|
>>
>>any ideas ?
> 
> 
> use urllib2, for example :
> 
> import urllib2
> 
> def install_proxy():
>     """initialize urllib2 to go through a proxy"""
>     proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler(
>         { 'http' : "http://username:passwd at IP_proxy:8080",
>           'ftp' : "http://username:passwd at IP_proxy:8080" } )
>     opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support)
>     urllib2.install_opener(opener)
> 
> Regards

Hi Jean , thank's for response, but i cannot easy do change to base 
library.
This is ZSI and is well structure over httplib.
My idea is to do some change at middle-level because proxy go well but 
only without certification.

httplib.py
    *
socket.py


Thank's again
Glauco


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 04:34:13 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:34:13 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4056c450$0$305$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
>  --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> wrote: > 
> 
>>On 13 Mar 2004, at 08:07, Premshree Pillai wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed,
>>
>>and
>>
>>>so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use
>>
>>strict
>>
>>>vars" pragma to force variable declaration.
>>
>>I'm no Perler ... but by reading a bit of
>>documentation, I get the 
>>impression that you are a bit confused about what
>>"use strict 'vars'" 
>>really does. It seems to be some mish-mash of
>>concepts: it imposes the 
>>necessity to fully qualify names, to declare (the
>>existence, not the 
>>type of) variables with "our", and does some control
>>of scoping rules.
>>
> 
> 
> Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
> typing, I think. Static typing has to do with explicit
> declaration (initialization) of variables (and not of
> variable types).

I beg your pardon ? Why do you thinks it is called 'static *typing*'?
Static typing has to do with compile-time *type* checking, not with 
variables declaration. Believe it or no, there are statically (and 
strongly) typed languages that does not enforce variable declaration nor 
even type declaration - this is called type inference, and you can have 
an exemple in OCaml.


> Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> strongly typed, 

C is certainly not what I'd call a 'strongly' typed langage, since you 
can cast *any* variable to *any* type without the compiler complaining. 
If you want *strong* static typing, go for Ada.

(snip)

Bruno



From jolsen at mail2world.com  Thu Mar 18 09:44:17 2004
From: jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:44:17 GMT
Subject: dictionary wart
In-Reply-To: <mailman.128.1079618371.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.128.1079618371.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5Bi6c.11865$g4.240193@news2.nokia.com>

Aloysio Figueiredo wrote:
> Why don't you extend the dict type to have your custom behaviour?
> 
> 
[znip]

That's a good point - thanks.

I think I will do it that way - but I still think it is a feature 
lacking from the core language.

Cheers
Jesper


From eric at zomething.com  Tue Mar 23 13:09:17 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:09:17 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
Message-ID: <20040323100917.481986794.eric@zomething.com>


> assaf__ at walla.com wrote:
> > If python is indeed suitable for large projects, how common is it to
> > actually use if for such purposes? Is there perhaps a list of examples of
> > real projects using python?


Here's the thing:  Let's say I'm a start-up working on something big.  If I am using Python for a really big project, given it's rapid ease (speed) of development, and that "common wisdom" might be that such things need to be done in C++, using Python might be my competitive advantage.

No way am I going to tell you that's what I'm using.

We all really have two choices: do our own independent evaluation, or rely on common wisdom.  If you had just wanted to rely on common wisdom, I do not think you would have bothered to ask about Python.



Eric Pederson
"C++ and C# Rule!"



From aisung at bubblemotions.com  Wed Mar 24 13:03:36 2004
From: aisung at bubblemotions.com (Michael G. A. Sung)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:03:36 -0800
Subject: SMS with python
Message-ID: <00dd01c411ca$5630a0f0$3c01a8c0@mike>

Hi everyone,

Anyone know how I can sent SMS with python script from desktop with a GSM phone attached let say a SE P900?


Thanks in advance.

Mike

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From eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com  Fri Mar  5 03:54:05 2004
From: eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:54:05 +0100
Subject: Modifying Entry widget diabledforeground in Tkinter...
References: <wk65dkv0sg.fsf@yahoo.poofters.com>
Message-ID: <c29eoc$b6t$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Rod Stephenson wrote:
> I want to modify an Entry widget to have the disabledforeground color
> be black rather than grey (so that in certain circumstances the widget
> acts as a label for displaying some stuff; the normal gray disabled
> foreground color isnt really readable).
> 
> In Tk this is just a matter of using configure -disabledforeground
> but this seems not to be an option with Tkinter.

I may be wrong, but AFAIK, the options you pass to the configure methods or used 
when creating an object are just passed almost "as is" to the tcl layer by 
Tkinter. So, except in very special cases, there can't be an option available in 
tk that isn't in Tkinter... I surely never saw such an option.

So I just wonder what made you think the option wasn't available?
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar  1 23:12:16 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:12:16 -0800
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
References: <mailman.5.1078175464.21900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404409A0.76BCA1A5@alcyone.com>

Bill Janssen wrote:

> You'll notice that
> the problem is in *decoding* the string, not in re-encoding it,
> because I'm using the default "C" locale, and "US-ASCII" is presumed
> for strings.  But these strings are *not* US-ASCII, they are raw
> bytes.  How do I format a string of raw bytes for conversion to a
> recognized charset encoding for printing?

Since the default encoding is ASCII, those 8-bit octets have no meaning
unless you do an explicit conversion.  Trying to print them _should_
raise an error, because you're trying to do something that doesn't make
sense.

As Gerrit pointed out, it sounds like what you want is repr.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Liberty is the right to do whatever the law permits.
    -- Charles Louis Montesquieu


From this_address_wont_work at nowhere.net  Thu Mar  4 14:43:02 2004
From: this_address_wont_work at nowhere.net (John Clayton)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:43:02 +0000
Subject: Howl & ZeroConf
Message-ID: <2004030419430275249%thisaddresswontwork@nowherenet>

Hi All

Has there been any discussion / planning of integrating howl as an 
external module into Python?

Links to existing conversations, projects, whatever welcome.  I tried 
searching google and the 11000 titles on the newsgroup for a few bits 
and pieces, but not much luck - so thought I'd ask!

Thanks

John Clayton



From steve at waypath.com  Mon Mar 29 15:59:18 2004
From: steve at waypath.com (Steve @ Waypath)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:59:18 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:donn-440440.12045829032004 at nntp4.u.washington.edu...
> In article <QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g at speakeasy.net>,
>  "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com> wrote:
>
> > ##########
> > File: test1.py
> > ------------
> > import os, time
> > if __name__=='__main__':
> >  os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'python',['test2.py'])
>
>
> But don't give it python's path.  Instead, at least consider
> invoking the Python program file directly - put its path there
> as the 2nd parameter, not python's.  Then your argument list
> (the 3rd parameter) will be correct as written.  If you invoke
> python itself, then you'll need to make test2.py the second
> argument, directing python to interpret that file.  If you
> decide to do as I suggest, test2.py will have to be executable
> (chmod 755) and start with a line like "#!/usr/bin/python", as
> appropriate for your system.  From there on, your test1.py
> program no longer needs to know how test2.py is actually
> implemented.
>

This makes sense to me. I tried this originally, and tried again just now.
For reasons not clear to me, I get the error:
      bad interpreter: No such file or directory
when I include the path to the python interperter. I've tried a number of
approaches:
  #!python
  #!/usr/bin/python
  #!/usr/bin/env python

(I've got the x bit set on the test files, so it's not a permissions
problem. ) This, I'm guessing, isn't a python problem, and would seem to be
my roadblock. I've done some preliminary searches for an answer, but nothing
has panned out so far; if anyone has any ideas...

>
> > ###########
> > While test 1 is running, a ps (in another shell):
> > # ps x | grep python
> > 11726 pts/1  S   0:00  python test1.py
> > 11727 pts/1  Z   0:00 [python <defunct>]
> > 11729 pts/2  S   0:00 grep python
> >
> > ###########
> > I see this defunct thing with every spawnv test I try. The defunct
process
> > goes away when the calling process (test1.py, in this case) finishes.
Where
> > am I going wrong here?
>
> It's a zombie!  UNIX leaves a dead process in the table as
> long as its parent might come back and ask for the status.
> It goes either when the parent gets its status with a wait
> function (like waitpid()), or when the parent exits.

I've read other posts (many yours, I think :) indicating something like
this, but I confess I don't understand the relationship between waitpid()
and spawnv(), how I would use the former with the latter. However, as I
recognize that isn't the solution to my problem, I won't ask you to explain
it--unless you really want to. :)

>
>    Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 17 09:07:47 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:07:47 +0100
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.77.1079525205.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.77.1079525205.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40585BB3.5000307@mxm.dk>

Oliver Kurz wrote:

 > I call the uid like this
 >
 > uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")


Are you shure you don't mean::

     uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\\SEEN)")

You are trying to create a non-existent special character, escaping the 
s in your example.

I am not quite shure how Python reacts to that.


regards Max M


From scrutinizer at gmx.at  Sun Mar 14 05:06:44 2004
From: scrutinizer at gmx.at (Francesco)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:06:44 +0100
Subject: Wanted: po file extract-merge script
Message-ID: <r9b850lolo5r69e1gd0pb4kb54ptvufdir@4ax.com>

Hello Python- Ng, 

I'm looking for a special script 

(I don't want to reinvent the wheel; have anyone written such a thing?
I've looked in google (and groups), but I didn't find anything

it such one doesn't exist yet,
I will write it myself, or someone is so good to support me:))


I would call it pomerge.py
example
pomerge.py it_collection.po my.po

I made a collection of strings, (i merged poedit po files and
wxwindows distribution po files into on)
BTW: Does there anyone exist a big collection file of all possible
strings?

(collection.po)
(I would extract msgid as keys and msgstr as values into a
dictionary.)

example (collection.pot)
msgid " Preview"
msgstr " Anteprima"

msgid "Envelope"
msgstr " busta"

msgid "&Close"
msgstr "&Chiudi"

.... 


my.po
(filter out msgid's)

msgid "Exit"
msgstr ""

msgid "Envelope"
msgstr ""

msgid "Next"
msgstr ""


-----------

output should be:

msgid "Exit"
msgstr ""

msgid "Envelope"
msgstr " busta"

msgid "Next"
msgstr ""


Great would be to ignore the '&' and the '\tctrl' characters, so a
translation is easier to find, and append then again in the output
file. 
Also I think for multiline string, there is a special procedure
necessary.

Or do you have better suggestions?
Many thanks in advance for your answer!

-- 

Franz St.


From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Wed Mar 17 10:28:25 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:28:25 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
Message-ID: <OF12F89E1A.DB27C5AB-ONC1256E5A.00537E3D@lbbw.sko.de>


Sebastian wrote:
> Please post the relevant code.
the shutdown function does not get called, it seems the signal gets lost

the threads shutdown function looks like:

--- CODE ---
# self._done is a threading.Event object
def shutdown(self):
    self._done.set()

> Btw, I am new to python2.x (not new to python, though). This is not
working
> code,
> is it?
> threads = {}
> threads["dircheck"] = TimedDirectoryCheck("/tmp/dpf/notify")
> threads["process"] = BatchProcessor()
> # start the threads
> for th in threads:
>     th.start()  # <---- Does that work???
>
of cource does this work, ... makes life a lot easier and saves up
variable names ... :-))

Sebastian

Do you run C extensions in your threads?
If you code the threading objects as dummies (while loops that do nothing
but e.g. sleep for a second),
does the signal handler shutdown function get called then?
Please post a small non-working code example.

>>> class foo:
...     def do(self):
...             print "do!"
...
>>> d = {}
>>> d["f1"] = foo()
>>> d["f2"] = foo()
>>> for x in d:
...     print x
...     x.do()
...
f1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in ?
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'do'

So what am I missing here, compared to your code?
_________________________________

Holger Joukl
Landesbank Baden-W?rttemberg
1651 Financial Markets Technologies
fon +49 (711) 124 - 7078
fax +49 (711) 124 - 3759
_________________________________

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request a hard copy version.






From janssen at parc.com  Mon Mar  1 16:05:31 2004
From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:05:31 PST
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
Message-ID: <04Mar1.130539pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>

I've encountered an issue dealing with strings read from files.  I
read a line from a file, then try to print it out as an ASCII string:

  line = fp.readline()
  print line.encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')

and of course I get an error like:

  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xd5 in position 1: ordinal not in range(128)

because the file contained some binary character.  You'll notice that
the problem is in *decoding* the string, not in re-encoding it,
because I'm using the default "C" locale, and "US-ASCII" is presumed
for strings.  But these strings are *not* US-ASCII, they are raw
bytes.  How do I format a string of raw bytes for conversion to a
recognized charset encoding for printing?

There seems to be no 'raw' codec that would capture this.  There's no
way of setting an attribute on a file to express this.  It looks like
the best I can do is

print string.join([(((ord(x) > 0 and ord(x) < 0x7F) and x) or (r"\x%02x" % ord(x))) for x in line], '')

which seems extremely inefficient.

Bill



From devnull at example.com  Sun Mar 28 23:13:19 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:13:19 +0800
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
Message-ID: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

I'm coming to Tkinter from Tcl/Tk. In Tcl I can get a variable in an event
using the %<X> substitution mechanism. For example, I can set up a command
like:

 entry .e -validate 1 -vcmd "checkkey %d"

knowing that the '%d' will be replaced by something useful - whether the
entry widget has recieved an insert or deletion in this case. The checkkey
procedure will recieve "insert", "delete" or whatever as its first
parameter.

What is the Tkinter way of getting that %d value?


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 14:28:05 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:28:05 -0600
Subject: Threading of messages in the list?
In-Reply-To: <20040305160913.64807107.moranar@daleclick.com>
References: <20040305160913.64807107.moranar@daleclick.com>
Message-ID: <16456.54469.935020.996163@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Adriano> I notice a lot of the threads are completely broken, with new
    Adriano> Re: messages starting as new threads, etc. Is it a problem with
    Adriano> my settings, a bug, a misfeature, a definite feature, something
    Adriano> due to the fact that this is linked to a newsgroup?

It's probably a side effect of 

    1. the gateway between the mailing list and newsgroup, and

    2. broken mail user agents or newsreaders which don't properly
       propagate/generate References: headers.

Skip



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:07:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:07:08 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <mailman.133.1080668655.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c4at6b$5vr$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<40699063.1080005@stackless.com>	<20040330090610.E5F5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.133.1080668655.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4ck7e$ru5$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>According to the stored headers, the message IDs are not valid for any
>>of the messages in the thread.  You should check the thread on google
>>groups to notice how everyone else sees the 'threads'.  The only reason
>>Google, or even other clients place them in the same group, is because
>>the messages all have proper subjects.
> 
> Because you're seeing the nntp IDs added when it went through the
> mail to news gateway.  Similarly, your posts don't show up as correct
> replies to Christian or me because we see the smtp IDs added when it
> went through the news to mail gateway.

Yikes, so we can blame the list <-> newsgroup conversion here?  Who 
knows, maybe it is an easy fix.

  - Josiah



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 00:10:41 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:10:41 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>
	<roy-F3D505.13543307032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<71tm409egnua4ncic1siadnk7fi9rqnp8e@4ax.com>
	<070320042238234451%bscholln@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3ivn40lv2ju6p586cal7gbl38jbm0hj4v0@4ax.com>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:38:24 GMT, benjamin schollnick
<bscholln at mac.com> wrote:

>The significant difference that I believe your forgetting is simply,
>using a "switchboard" function or module, allows you to clearly have
>a defined start, and end position in the code...

In general I'd agree, just not in this case.

>If you can not find a alternative to a GOTO statement, you may need to
>re-examine your concept/structure, and see if there is a alternative
>structure that you may have missed.

No no no - using goto *was* the alternative that I nearly missed.

This is one case in ten years. It's not like I'm addicted to the
things. I can give up gotos any time I want... ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  8 16:28:12 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:28:12 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <mailman.110.1078718080.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<36gth1-42c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<donn-462327.09281408032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <445vh1-g7g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Donn Cave wrote:
> In article <36gth1-42c.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>,
>  "Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
> > > This has to be the worst idea I've seen in a long time.
> >
> > Well, it is popular enough to be in shell scripting (digit
> > form), several forms of Basic (either form), another poster
> > mentioned ADA, and I have seen it in other languages which
> > I have forgotten.
>
> This is an argument for it, or against?

It is an argument for.  I also looked into Perl and it has named
continues (mostly).  It is obviously useful enough to have been
in several languages.   (I am not saying that all features in
all languages are a good thing, just that something in multiple
languages has some merit).

The lack of this feature in Python (and other languages) means
that people have gotten used to "workarounds" such as using
exceptions and introducing variables.  In the same way you
would be used to using 'while' as a workaround for a language
that didn't have 'for'.

Roger




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 14:32:34 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:32:34 -0500
Subject: tabbing probs
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04> <106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106glq882vcn659@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.83.1080601898.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkn05y167h.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:

>>You're contradicting yourself. In a prior post, you said that if you
>>had a crappy editor, then change it. Now you're saying that you
>>think you would have to press the space bar or the backspace key
>>multiple times, and you're not going to give up that crappy editor
>>for one that works properly.
>>
> An editor is crappy if it inserts anything other than what you type
> into the code. If I press tab and four spaces are inserted that is
> crap. If I press 'A' and 'a' is inserted that is crap. To me, it
> sounds as if this entire issue is caused by crappy editors that think
> they know better than the programmers. If you want a smart alec paper
> clip telling you what to do when you're editing code then feel free to
> do so but I just want raw access to my code.

Does your backspace key insert a backspace character (^H), also?

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Mar 30 08:20:21 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:20:21 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040330132021.GD27344@nl.linux.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> A2. People that bitch about top-posting.

Mark - I really find it a bit difficult to read your postings. I keep
scrolling to below to see whether there is still more to come - because you
do sometimes quote others and then answer below. When I see quoting in a
message, I automatically assume there's more to come, and I am not the
only one. I think it is the wrong answer to say that people shouldn't
bitch about top-posting - it _does_ annoy people (including me and Aahz).
There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they are there
with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.

Really, it does - please try it...

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:55 UTC:
	15.0?C   wind 5.8 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature



From bradwiseathome at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 10:17:12 2004
From: bradwiseathome at hotmail.com (bdwise)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 07:17:12 -0800
Subject: Regex Match Problem
Message-ID: <59c05c40.0403100717.30e6dbb2@posting.google.com>

I have this in my body tag:

something();something();
document.thisForm.textBox1.focus();something();

And I want to find a part between the semicolons that ends in focus()
and remove the entire value between the semicolons.

My Regular Expression looks like this but it is not matching, can
anyone help?

";([^.]*).focus()"


Thanks.


From trevp at trevp.net  Mon Mar 22 17:08:02 2004
From: trevp at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 14:08:02 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xptbgjpk4.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.c
> 
> This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
> the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
> are appreciated.

Slightly OT, but...

What about a subclass of Random that provides an interface to
platform-specific secure RNGs:
 - /dev/urandom on some unixes
 - CryptGenRandom on windows
 - SecureRandom on Java

I think you've suggested this yourself, a few times.  Is any work
being done in this direction?


Trevor


From sjf at autograf.pl  Mon Mar  1 03:29:20 2004
From: sjf at autograf.pl (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:29:20 +0100
Subject: Reading selected data from text files
References: <c1njho$adr$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <wzk728inbx.fsf@Ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <c1us9n$kbg$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

U?ytkownik "Piet van Oostrum" <piet at cs.uu.nl> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:wzk728inbx.fsf at Ordesa.local...
> >>>>> "..:: sjf ::.." <sjf at autograf.pl> (SJF) wrote:
>
> SJF> Hello Pythoners!
> SJF> There are a lot of files containing data such as:
>
> SJF> file1:
> SJF> 0950 1550
>
> SJF> file22:
> SJF> 0952 1552
>
> SJF> file3:
> SJF> 1000 1020 1050 1130 1150 1200 1245 1600
>
> SJF> file4:
> SJF> 1002 1022 1052 1132 1152 1202 1247 1602
>
> SJF> file5:
> SJF> 1005 1025 1055 1135 1155 1205 1250 1605
>
> SJF> I want to read from them only that data which produce a following
> sequence SJF> of data:
> SJF> => 0950 0952 1000 1002 1005
> SJF> => 1555 1557 1600 1602 1605
>
> How do you get at these values, as 1555 and 1557 aren't in your input
> files?

ups...
of course it should be:
=> 0950 0952 1000 1002 1005
=> 1550 1552 1600 1602 1605


--
..:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"



From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Sat Mar 20 05:33:31 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:33:31 -0000
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
	<c9d82136.0403191806.151cfa46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <002901c40e66$cabaa860$0600a8c0@Hugh>

I suspect I'll probably use Donn Cave's suggestion when I give it a go on
monday - I'd rather not use any external modules if I can help it, and I
know that stderr gives me output in a format that I can read (I know exactly
which command I want to run here, and I have the program working properly
except for not being able to stop if before it finishes on its own.....)

Hugh Macdonald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Noah" <noah at noah.org>
Subject: Re: Getting both PID and output from a command


> The Pexpect library lets you run external commands.
> You get output from a command and you can get the pid.
>     http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
> You should be able to write code like this:
>
> import pexpect
> child = pexpect.spawn (command.split()[0], command.split())
> print child.pid
> try:
>     print child.read()
> except pexpect.TIMEOUT:
>     child.kill (9)
>
> One problem is that the stdout and stderr are merged into a single stream.
> This is a limitation of the Python pty library. Oops...
> You will still be able to read the error, but you can't read it
> separately from stdout.
>
> Note, I wouldn't trust using a pipe. You will not see any data on the pipe
> until the child decides to flush the pipe. There is no way to force the
> child to flush it's stdout (your stdin from your point of view).
> Pipes are bad for working with child apps that use the stdio libary.
> You need a pty for that.
>
> Yours,
> Noah
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>




From vimakefile at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 22:39:25 2004
From: vimakefile at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 03:39:25 GMT
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <N%a3c.214922$uV3.829991@attbi_s51>


"Stephen Horne" <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0 at 4ax.com...
> On 8 Mar 2004 15:24:56 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> >Here are the contenders:
> >      from .foo import
> >      from ...foo import
> I'd suggest taking a tip from VMS path syntax. A VMS relative pathname
>   [-----.dirname.dirname.dirname]filename
>   [-5.dirname.dirname.dirname]filename

I always liked the QNX path version:  "^^^file". (Same as ../../../file)
Easier to count than "."'s...




From tbettio at transnorm.ch  Thu Mar 11 18:08:24 2004
From: tbettio at transnorm.ch (Tiziano Bettio)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:08:24 +0100
Subject: How to simulate a TTY with popen2?
In-Reply-To: <104vbfu5bl0ekda@corp.supernews.com>
References: <c2o6pe$dn8$1@newshispeed.ch> <104vbfu5bl0ekda@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c2qrgf$p2s$1@newshispeed.ch>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <c2o6pe$dn8$1 at newshispeed.ch>,
> Tiziano Bettio  <tbettio at transnorm.ch> wrote:
> 
>>Hi Everybody,
>>
>>I'm stuck trying to write a python module for the vlc videoplayer on 
>>linux (http://www.videolan.org). I'm using the popen2 module to open a 
>>pipe to the program. If I open the vlc player in a shell it recognizes 
>>that I'm running it from a TTY.
>>Same command with popen2-4 and the vlc doesn't seem to find a TTY so it 
>>tries to open a gui and fails resulting in ending itself.
>>
>>So here's my question:
>>Is there a way to open a pipe in python imitating a TTY or am I doing 
>>something completely wrong?
>>
>>Greetz TC
> 
> 
> Is Pexpect <URL: http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/ > exactly what you want?

Thx... works great!!!

TC


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 19:08:34 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 16:08:34 -0800
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
References: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<_6Fac.9377$He5.187843@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <30260531.0403311608.6cda48c5@posting.google.com>

wes weston <wweston at att.net> wrote:

> Markus,
>     I think there's a timeout in urllib; not sure.

No there isn't, bit of a shame that. There is in httplib.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 17:40:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:40:06 -0500
Subject: \r\n problem in cgi module?
In-Reply-To: <ba1e306f.0403200359.4a11f60c@posting.google.com>
References: <ba1e306f.0403200359.4a11f60c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7fadnUsM0Z_aVcHd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Jane Austine wrote:

> I'm wrote a cgi script which saves some data in a file, which is
> POSTed from a HTML page.
> 
> The HTML page includes:
> 
> <textarea name="text" cols="80" rows="5"></textarea>
> 
> Then I extract the "text" as such:
> 
> f=cgi.FieldStorage()
> text=f['text'].value
> 
> The surprise is "text" contains "\r\n" instead of "\n", when running
> on windows.
> 
> Why does this happen, and what am I supposed to do? Isn't cgi module
> supposed to provide "universal_new_line"?

And the shortest solution for you is

  text = f['text'].value.replace('\r\n', '\n')

-Peter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 10 16:31:12 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:31:12 -0600
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040310213111.GD4802@unpythonic.net>

I don't like your suggestion.  You propose using @ in 4 different
ways, one of which I don't even understand
    -- to pass keyword arguments to statements
    -- instead of the perfectly good "lambda" keyword
    -- mumble generators mumble (this is the example I don't understand)
    -- instead of the perfectly good "self." idiom

Jeff



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 10 06:01:46 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 06:01:46 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<mailman.157.1078818098.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2msiq$4rc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.157.1078818098.19534.python-list at python.org>,
Thomas Heller  <theller at python.net> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> PEP: 328
>> Title: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
>
>There are commas missing imo:

Right.  Thanks!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 09:41:29 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:41:29 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
Message-ID: <4062EF99.1050802@zope.com>

Ahem, I was hoping for opinions on this idea, either positive or 
negative.  It could make Python better or worse.  I need to know whether 
I should flesh out the proposal more.

I've added some comparisons below.  IMHO this syntax is clearer than the 
syntax proposed for PEP 318, and a little more powerful.

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> In thinking about PEP 318, I came across an idea that might be worth 
> pursuing further.  It goes deeper than PEP 318, so it would need its own 
> PEP.
> 
> The idea is to make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions.  
> Expressions using 'def' or 'class' are followed by a code block.  Upon
> evaluation of the expression, the 'def' or 'class' symbol evaluates as the
> function or class created by the code block.  Only one 'def' or 'class' is
> allowed per expression.
> 
> Some examples follow.
> 
> 
>     # Define a staticmethod named 'now'.
> 
>     class datetime:
>         now = staticmethod(def):
>             ticks = time.time()
>             return datetime(ticks)

Today, this would be written as:

     class datetime:
         def now():
             ticks = time.time()
             return datetime(ticks)
         now = staticmethod(now)


>     # Increment a counter, under control of a lock.
> 
>     def increment():
>         self.increment_lock.synchronize(def):
>             self.counter += 1

Today, this would be written as:

     def increment():
         self.increment_lock.acquire()
         try:
             self.counter += 1
         finally:
             self.increment_lock.release()


>     # Define an interface.
> 
>     ICustomer = Interface(class):
>         def get_id():
>             """Return the customer ID"""

Today, this would be written as:

     class ICustomer:
         def get_id():
             """Return the customer ID"""
     ICustomer = Interface(ICustomer)


>     # Create a singleton object that ignores what you write to it.
> 
>     dev_null = singleton(class):
>         def write(self, data):
>             pass

     class dev_null:
         def write(self, data):
             pass
     dev_null = singleton(dev_null)

> 
> 
> When an expression uses 'def', the subsequent code block becomes a
> function and therefore does not execute unless called by the expression.  
> When an expression uses 'class', the subsequent code block becomes a class
> object and therefore executes before being passed to the expression.
> 
> Do you like or dislike it?  Why?
> 
> Shane
> 




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Mar  4 10:44:42 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:44:42 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40474EEA.5090703@ghaering.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> [problems finding Gadfly binaries]

Alternatively, you could try PySQLite. It's also an embedded database engine in a 
Python module. And it offers binaries for win32.

-- Gerhard (PySQLite developer)



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 17 11:42:15 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:42:15 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com><gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com><40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com><GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c39v54$6cp$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4 at posting.google.com...
> "is" on immutables would be useful. Why would anybody ever want to
> know whether two strings or tupels are internally stored at the same
> location, other than to deduce details of the Python implementation?

Deducing details of the implementation *is*, for people with a certain
curiosity, a legitimate usage, in spite of your distain for such.
Explaining the bahavior of

a=[1]
b=a
a[0]=2
print b

is another use for 'is'.

Terry J. Reedy






From rzantow at ntelos.net  Tue Mar  2 15:25:56 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:25:56 GMT
Subject: Lua Book
References: <1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94A09D40BEAD7rzed@63.223.5.95>

Pete Shinners <pete at shinners.org> wrote in
news:mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list at python.org: 

> Cameron Laird wrote:
>> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua?  Look at
>> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.
> 
> I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples
> from the book may frighten me away for good.
> 
> http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this
> rather trivial. 
> 
> def allwords():
>      for line in sys.stdin:
>          for word in line.split():
>              yield word
> 
> for word in allwords():
>      print word
> 
> 
> 

NameError: global name 'sys' is not defined

The Python version includes trailing punctuation, while the Lua 
version filters it out. It becomes a little less trivial to make 
the two functionally identical. 

It seems that the syntax of Lua can be a little more verbose. On 
the other hand, here are two versions of (more or less) the 
functional equivalent of the referenced Lua code:

# in Python:

import sys, string
tt = string.maketrans( '`~!@#$%^&*()_-+=:;"\'{[}]|\\?/>.<,',
'                                ' )
for line in sys.stdin:
    line = string.translate( line, tt )
    for word in line.split():
        print word

-- in Lua:

line = io.read()
while line do
    for word in string.gfind(line, "%w+") do
        print(word)
    end
    line = io.read()
end

There are probably better ways to write the code in either 
language. I've only been looking at Lua for a couple of hours, so I 
can't really comment much about that. But overall, for a comparable 
task, it doesn't look too scary.

-- 
rzed



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar  8 11:42:02 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:42:02 +0200
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
In-Reply-To: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404CA25A.7090102@zoran.com>

Hello Chad,

> How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
> simple example?
> 
> union {
>    struct {
>       int size;
>       float time;
>    } var1;
>    struct {
>       char initial;
>       float time;
>    } var2;
> };
You can't, but you're thinking in C and not in Python ;-)

Python variables are dynamically typed, this means
a = 100
a = "Hello"
a = lambda x: x * 2

Is OK in Python.

You should use classes where you use structs in C
class var1:
     def __init__(self, size, time):
         self.size = size
         self.time = time
class var2:
     def __init__(self, initial, time):
         self.initial = initial
         self.time = time

And to check the type of variable you can use `isinstance' function.
I don't recommend using the above, have each function return one type of 
object only. Unions were created to same memory, Python is the wrong 
language for such optimizations. If you need to save memory using unions 
I suggest coding in C and using SWIG/Boost.Python to export the C module 
to Python.

HTH.
Miki


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Mar 22 15:48:18 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:48:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.230.1079954390.742.python-list@python.org>
	<blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu@4ax.com>
	<VUH7c.10541$re.750713@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c3njeh$9ve$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

> "David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> news:blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu at 4ax.com...

>> If we want to set variables in intermediate scopes, I would prefer a
>> syntax like:
>>
>> b = 1
>> def f():
>> a = 2
>> def g():
>> global.f.a = 3

Locals inside functions are unique to a function invocation (not the
function object).  More than one may be active at any given time,
either through recursion or by creating closures.


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Mar  8 16:48:12 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:48:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wx delivery queshun
References: <221dd125.0403081332.5863daef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2ipmr$ej8$7@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

sb <spam_bait101 at yahoo.com> pisze:
> If you write your app using wxPython & GL, how do you deliver it to
> users on Windows? Do you expect them to
> 
> RTFM
> install python
> RTFM
> install wx
> RTFM
> install swig (needed to compile pyopengl)
> RTFM
> install pyopengl
> RTFM
> install wxpython
> install your easy-to-use-and-install app
> 
> Seriously?

STFW
use py2exe or macmillan installer

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  5 05:19:11 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:19:11 GMT
Subject: PySequence_Check on class instance
References: <mailman.7.1078410265.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3znavfvfk.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Sebastian Tusk <sebastian.tusk at silver-style.com> writes:

> PySequence_Check returns 1 for instances of a simple class. Even if
> this class doesn't implement __len__ and __getitem__.
> 
> The following code thus fails with an exception for classes that
> doesn't implement the sequence protocol.
> 
> if (PySequence_Check( instance )) {
> 	int size = PySequence_Size( instance );
> }
> 
> Is this intended behaviour or a bug?

Um, it's what I'd expect :-)

Note that you have to check for an exception after PySequence_Size if
you suspect that a user-defined type is involved *anyway* because the
__len__() method might be buggy.

Do you know about the PySequence_Fast API?  That's often less of a
pain than doing this sort of thing yourself...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  After a heavy night I travelled on, my face toward home - the comma
  being by no means guaranteed.           -- paraphrased from cam.misc


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Mar  4 10:29:56 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 17:29:56 +0200
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "David" == David M Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> writes:

    David> I would call it *pragmatically* implemented OOP.  It's not
    David> "proper" as some would see it.

Elaborate?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 02:20:04 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:20:04 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Jon Perez wrote:
> 
>> Can one run a 1.5 .pyc file with the 2.x version
>> interpreters and vice versa?
>>
>> How about running a 2.x .pyc using a 2.y interpreter?
> 
> 
> What is the specific need you have?  There may be ways around
> your problem.
> 
> -Peter

I was just curious wrt deployment issues.  So I guess it is
fair to say that .pyc files are not as flexible as Java
class files which are at least forward compatible in most
cases (i.e. old class files will run on newer JVMs).

I'm sure a 2.N.x .pyc can run on a 2.N.y interpreter though,
right?  :-D

The answers also make me curious about how CPython's VM works.
I suppose that, unlike Java, it is constantly being reworked
in more extensive ways from one dot-version to another.  Would
that also explain why there is no detailed spec detailing how
CPython's VM works (since its design is not as nailed down as,
say, the JVM)?

As a programmer, I find installing (and uninstalling) Python
extensions to be about as easy as one can wish for.  However,
for end users, it would be great if we can someday have the
equivalent of a Java Runtime Environment with all the important
extensions already included.  Then Python developers can distribute
.pycs to end-users and expect them to work with few to no issues.

The things I would like to see in this hypothetical Python Runtime
Environment (PRE) would be Pygame, PyOpenGL, PyGtk (once it finally
matures on Aqua), and the other popular extensions they rely on (like
Numeric - although the current PyOpenGL is experimenting with
using numarray instead).

It may not necessarily have to be the current lightweight distro being
released by the offical Python maintainers, but a separate one
specifically geared for end users who mainly wish to use 3rd party apps
written in Python.  Due to Python's nature, such a PRE would also
automatically be an effective developer environment, nullifying the
need for an SDK edition.







From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Mar 17 06:40:46 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:40:46 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<pan.2004.03.16.13.30.19.189891@thomas-guettler.de>
	<c37fua$24tag4$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.17.11.40.46.198701@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:08:52 +0100 schrieb Luca T.:

> Thomas Guettler wrote:
> 
>> Be carefull, there are a many things you need to
>> make it secure. Maybe suexec of apache can be
>> used as template.
> 
> Where can i find its sources?

I don't know, but google does:
 http://www.google.de/search?q=suexec.c

 
HTH,
 Thomas




From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Thu Mar 25 14:22:05 2004
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:22:05 -0500
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9C5A32A@pippin.int.etrials.com>

Consider doing the GUI with Delphi and the objects with Python?

You can do this via Python COM wrappers or by embedding Python using Python for Delphi : http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm

Good luck.

-----Original Message-----
From: asdf sdf [mailto:asdf at asdf.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:55 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?


i need some advice.  i'm a back end programmer historically, but have 
been exploring python for webapps and enjoying it.

i need to build some simple Win client-server or standalone apps.

the result needs to look professional and attractive, and i need 
something i can get working fairly quickly with a modest learning curve.

i'm looking at wxPython, because that is a pythonic solution.  but i'm 
concerned about the scarcity of gentle introductory 
tutorial/documentation.  dialog editors/wysiwyg screen painters seem to 
exist but are at an early stage of development.

I contrast this with Delphi which is
a) inexpensive,
b) lots of excellent database-driven widgets (which i need),
c) very attractive,
d) very small footprint,
e) redistributable,
f) high technical quality,
e) much sample code,
f) integration with very solid free or very inexpensive databases 
(interbase, jdatastore, thunderbird),
g) excellent ide.
h) good documentation, user community

Good data-driven widgets combined with a good layout tool mean that 
simple apps can be easily created.  I might get something working in a 
couple of days.

only downside to delphi i see is the longer-term future of Borland's 
non-.NET products.  delphi.net just shipped.  python is a much cooler 
language than pascal (delphi) but pascal is not bad or hard to learn.

bottom-line: i suspect that i'll much more quickly get a good gui 
working with Delphi than with wxPython, and for little money to boot. 
Might be a throwaway in the long-term but no problem if it is cheap and 
easy.  My customer doesn't care either way.

any thoughts on this?


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From kirk at strauser.com  Sat Mar 13 05:05:07 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:05:07 GMT
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <87ad2lie58.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2004-03-13T03:15:44Z, Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:

> How else could I twist this up?

Look at the base64 module, for one.  That is, if you *insist* on ignoring
all of the advice you've gotten telling you how to avoid the whole issue
altogether.  It's your system - if you wanna break it, good luck.
- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 19 15:52:54 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:52:54 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch><mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3fmj2$k5c$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
news:c3fd5j$mlg$1 at sunnews.cern.ch...
> Terry Reedy wrote:
> > Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
> > mean.

> how do you call 'a' in class A ?

(non-method) attribute, possibly 'member' (of class A).


> > Given that you rebound A.a to 1 from None, I especially do not know
what
> > you mean.
>
> I dont understand.

When you call this class

> <<<< file: A.py
> class A:
>      a=None
>      def __init__(self,a=None):
>          if (a):
>              A.a=a

with the statement a=A.A(1), you enter __init__ with a==1, trigger the
if(a) [if(1)]conditional and execute A.a=a [A.a=1], thereby rebinding class
attribute a from None, as originally set, to 1.  Leaving aside the misuse
of 'static' in C, 'static' usually means 'unchanging', whereas you change
A.a.


> > As you seem to be aware, Python expects modules to have a 'nice' name
> > consisting of
> > legal_Python_indentifier.py.
>
> Which are ? Where to find this info ?

Tutorial I presume, definitely Reference Manual under 'names' and/or
'identifiers'.

> >  If you evade this, you are a bit on your own
> > and may run into untested corner cases.
>
> Untested area contains bugs, that's why it's interesting to test them.

Yes, I have done similar things.

> > I would put more print statements into both A.A and B.B
> > and maybe even aTest.py to see where execution first differs.

To restate: if I were to investigate further, I would add prints
statements, since that has so far worked well for me with Python.  What you
do is up to you.

> It breaks in B, if I remember well.

In what way?  Since the line  'a=A.A(1)', should still rebind A.a, it is
puzzling that the following line 'b=B.B()' should act any differently.  The
only thing I can think of is that the name change caused the line 'import
A' to import A under a different internal name so that module A in B is no
longer that same as module A in aTest.  I would test this by putting 'print
id(A)' in both files after the imports.  I would also add

import sys
print sys.modules

to the end of aTest.  I suspect that this will clear up the mystery.

Terry J. Reedy







From plegresl at stanford.edu  Mon Mar  8 20:16:41 2004
From: plegresl at stanford.edu (Patrick LeGresley)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:16:41 -0800
Subject: Recursive function always returns None
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.09.01.16.40.825600@stanford.edu>

Hi,

I have a sample piece of code for which I can't understand why it
returns the output it does.  I am running Python 2.3.2 on Redhat
Linux 8.0 (x86 hardware).  Here is the code and output:

granada 6% cat tmp.py
def test(astring):

        if (len(astring) >= 30):
                print 'astring =',astring
                return astring
        else:
                astring = astring + astring
                test(astring)

a = 'hello '
b = test(a)
print 'b =',b
granada 7%
granada 7%
granada 7% python tmp.py
astring = hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello
b = None
granada 8%


So it seems to me that the value of b is wrong.  Could someone
explain if it is correct, why ?


Thanks,

Patrick


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 29 12:03:50 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:03:50 -0500
Subject: tabbing probs (was: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes)
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <106glq882vcn659@news.supernews.com>


"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:406848CD.5070100 at mlug.missouri.edu...
>
> >I think you misunderstood. There is no "standard" length of
> >a tab. A tab is supposed to insert (or otherwise render the
> >equivalent of inserting) enough spaces to go to the next "tab stop",
> >which by convention is a multiple of 8 columns on a fixed
> >width mechanical typewriter. This is where tabs originated.
> >
> >
> No, I just fail to see why it matters. A tab could be 4 columns, 8
> columns, 15 columns, or whatever on a particular editor and code blocks
> will still line up.
>
> >It matters. 8 columns is much too wide for indents in readable code.
> >People do differ on that, but that seems to be the concensus.
> >
> >
> So rather than switch editors or change your editors settings you'd
> rather everyone be forced to use spaces? I presume four spaces? If
> someone uses eight spaces to indent will that also break the code? It
> seems to me that it'd be easier to configure an editor to show tabs as
> four columns, if you so desire, than to configure an editor to show
> eight spaces as four columns. Eight spaces is no easier to read than a
> tab that takes eight columns. It's just more typing to correct the
problem.
>
> By my own preference, if I'm forced to use spaces to indent rather than
> tabs, then I'll most likely use a single space to indent because I don't
> want to deal with pressing the space and backspace keys multiple times
> (trying to keep count) to make blocks line up correctly. I also don't
> find it acceptable to use an editor which kludges together such space
> using behavior for me to do what tabs would have done in the first
> place. Overall, I think I find code that uses a single tab, rather than
> a single space, to be easier to read.

You're contradicting yourself. In a prior post, you said that if you
had a crappy editor, then change it. Now you're saying that you
think you would have to press the space bar or the backspace key
multiple times, and you're not going to give up that crappy editor
for one that works properly.

Get real.

John Roth




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 19 11:27:20 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:27:20 -0500
Subject: Python doesn't know class of function ? : class C:def f():pass;
	l=[f]; print C.l[0].im_class
References: <19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105m7thjapekofd@news.supernews.com>


"Robert" <k.robert at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0 at posting.google.com...
> Python doesn't know the class of a method when container not direct
> class attribute:
>
> >>> class X:
> ... def f():pass
> ... g=f
> ... l=[f]
> ...
> >>> X.g
> <unbound method X.f>
> >>> X.l[0]
> <function f at 0x01A9E1F0>
> >>> X.l[0].im_class
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'im_class'
> >>>
>
>
> why is l[0] a <function>. Any possibility to find the class of this
> beast dynamically?

As Terry said, this is not possible because of the highly
dynamic nature of Python.

If you'd tell us a bit about what you're trying to accomplish
by relating functions to the class where they're defined, we
might be able to suggest some other ways of approaching
the problem.

John Roth
>
> Robert




From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 14 13:49:38 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:49:38 -0000
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
References: <mailman.44.1078539398.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2e37t$1rsg2r$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1059aa29eivcpf9@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c2e37t$1rsg2r$1 at ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>,
William Park  <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I am kinda new to Python, but not new to programming. 
>> I am a certified Java programmer.
>> 
>> I don't want to read line after line, neither do I
>> want to read the whole file all at once.  Thus none of
>> read(), readline(), readlines() is what I want. I want
>> to read a text file sentence by sentence. 
>
>Question: How do I read sentence by sentence?
>Answer: Read input stream char by char.
			.
			.
			.
I thought it was idiomatic to specify which *kind* of
certification a Java programmer holds.

The answers in this thread have been all over the map.
My interpretation of the original question has it that
William's answer is the only legitimate one--but maybe
the original poster intended something different from
what I read, and likes all those alternatives.

Anyway, the one fundamentally different perspective on
this question I haven't seen anyone mention is what
Pexpect <URL: http://pexpect.sf.net > gives.  From a
Java background, this might come as a revelation--or 
be incomprehensible.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 10 11:47:10 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:47:10 -0500
Subject: Explane File modes please --
References: <433f4c9a.0403091824.2d3ed304@posting.google.com>
	<404E9728.10906@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c2ngqg$inh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Please do not post html.  It makes it harder to respond!  In particular, impossible to insert comments in the proper place.  Some newsreaders may not read at all or display incorrectly.

Truncate = clear = erase everything.
Update = move around and make changes here and there.  Cannot do this without +.
I am not sure if any diff between r+ and a+.

tjr
  "pxlpluker" <pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:404E9728.10906 at cfl.rr.com...
  What exactly does the underlined text mean. w & a obviously mean you are going to update the file. 
  So what does the + mean on w+ & a+ mean?
  Also please could someone explain w+ truncating the file.
  I may just be dense so please be patient :)
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  [Copy from python 2.3.3 help file]
  file( filename [, mode [, bufsize ] ] )

  Return a new file object (described earlier under Built-in Types). The first two arguments are the same as for stdio's fopen(): filename is the file name to be opened, mode indicates how the file is to be opened: 'r' for reading, 'w' for writing (truncating an existing file), and 'a' opens it for appending (which on some Unix systems means that all writes append to the end of the file, regardless of the current seek position). 

  Modes 'r+', 'w+' and 'a+' open the file for updating (note that 'w+' truncates the file). Append 'b' to the mode to open the file in binary mode, on systems that differentiate between binary and text files (else it is ignored). If the file cannot be opened, IOError is raised.
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From john.burton at jbmail.com  Sun Mar 21 17:44:59 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:44:59 +0000
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
In-Reply-To: <7xu10ij6rz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>
	<405c772e$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<c3i635$lg5$1@plaza.suomi.net>
	<405d9161$0$63621$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<7xu10ij6rz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <405e1aec$0$63625$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

Paul Rubin wrote:
 > John Burton <john.burton at jbmail.com> writes:
 >
 >>Ok, I'm now using sudo to launch the application which just opens the
 >>listening sockets and then calls os.setuid to set the uid back to an
 >>unprivilaged account.
 >
 >
 > That's how Apache does it too, more or less.  Another method under
 > Linux is have a separate process that opens the low ports, and use an
 > AF_UNIX socket to pass the low ports back to your application through
 > ancillary messages.  That requires a patch to the socket module, which
 > I'll see about coding up.  I currently have a Sourceforge bug
 > (#815869) open for it.

The advantage of the original approach is that I want this to be
portable back to windows and the code can be the same except that it
doesn't do the the os.setuid on windows. This idea, while interesting,
would be harder to make portable I think.


From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  1 15:09:08 2004
From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 12:09:08 -0800
Subject: PyTable?
Message-ID: <731b3eeb.0403011209.13d594b4@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I was looking at PyTable this morning, after seeing it on PythonWare's
Daily Links page.  It's interesting, because my local Perl Monger's
group is having a talk on Class::DBI tomorrow night, and they sound
very similar.  I can't attend the talk tomorrow, so thought I'd ask
something here.

What are these two modules about?  Another abstraction layer for the
DB?  I've never heard of this as a concept until today, and I'm a
little lost.  Are they mimicing functionality available in another
language that I'm not aware of?

PyTable points to another module called BasicProperty that abstracts a
Class?

Could someone help me wrap my head around what appears to be a new
"trend"?

Thanks,
Chris


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar 16 20:35:11 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:35:11 +1300
Subject: Semantics of ==
In-Reply-To: <105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c38a0h$266sfj$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

John Roth wrote:
>>  >>> l=[1]
>>  >>> s=l
>>  >>> l.append(s)
>>  >>> w=[1]
>>  >>> r=[1,w]
>>  >>> w.append(r)
>>  >>> s
>>  [1, [...]]
>>  >>> w
>>  [1, [1, [...]]]
>>  >>> s==w
>>  True

You've created two cyclic data structures. The ==
operator happens to regard them as equal, but they're
not identical, since they have different structures.
The first one is a list which refers directly to
itself, and the second contains another list which
refers back to the first list.

 >>  >>> s[0]=2
 >>  >>> w[0]=2
 >>  >>> s==w
 >>  False

If you print out s and w at this point:

 >>> s
[2, [...]]
 >>> w
[2, [1, [...]]]

They're now different in a way that == can see, so
it says they're not equal.

 > It appears as if two equal objects
 > can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them

Since the objects weren't really the same to begin with,
performing "the same operation" on them isn't entirely
possible.

By the way, it's not unusual for two objects that are not
identical to nevertheless compare ==, e.g.

 >>> 5 == 5.0
True

even though one is an integer and the other is a float.
Generally, == means that the *value* of two objects is
"equivalent" in some sense. What sense that is depends
on the types of the objects.

The == machinery for lists happens to include some
heuristics which attempt to make sense of cyclic
structures. As you've seen, however, the results can be
a bit confusing, and mightn't be what you want in some
cases. Probably it's best to avoid applying == to cyclic
structures if you can.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Mar 11 06:40:42 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 12:40:42 +0100
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.230.1078936428.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfhdwv6285.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

gabor <gabor at z10n.net> writes:

> i think the biggest problem with this exception-stuff is the naming.
> 
> the name 'exception' immediately means (for me at least) some kind of
> error condition.... 
> 
> maybe if they had a different name, it would be easier to use them also
> by non-error-conditions.

At least one language has conditions, rather than exceptions, where
"error" is a subtype of "condition", and where it is quite normal to
have conditions which are not errors.



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 31 06:17:46 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 13:17:46 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
	<mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<temac.74866$cx5.61050@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <tyfzn9x1d0l.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:

> Goodbye.

Mark, Please _do_ take the hint that Terry is giving you. I would like
to read your posts, but your top-quoting style makes them so difficult
to decypher that I am finding it not worth my time and effort.

> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list at python.org...
> > What is 'this'?  Who is 'you'?  Where is the original suggestion?  What
> did
> > who say what is fragile?
> >
> > "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
> > news:1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284 at fed1read04...
> > > I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
> > > with a function like a closure of sorts?
> > >
> > > In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs
> > ands
> > > or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?
> > >
> > > You say fragile.  What breaks?
> >
> > Trying to read cryptic top-posted comments that require me to spend
> minutes
> > trying to find the most like referent in order to make any sense is too
> > much work for me.  I won't do it.  Good bye.
> >
> > Terry J. Reedy


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 15 09:24:58 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 09:24:58 -0500
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c34ebq$9kv$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3 at posting.google.com>,
Jess Austin <jaustin at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>I like the way that Python does lists, and I love the way it does
>iterators.  But I've decided I don't like what it does with iterators
>of lists.  Lists are supposed to be mutable sequences, but try to use
>an iterator of a list that you're mutating and watch it all fall to
>pieces.  That is, if you change the length of a section of the list
>through which the iterator has already passed, it will lose track of
>where it is.  I think this should be fixed for 2.4.  I'm not sure if
>this is a bug or a PEP, so I'd like to hear from others on this
>newsgroup.

I'll guarantee that it won't be fixed for 2.4.  This subject has come up
many times long before iterators were introduced, and the answer has
always beent the same: if you want to mutate, make a copy or make *very*
sure that your mutations don't muck the loop.

>I hope this isn't in conflict with any previous irrevocable
>pronouncements.  b-)

Your hope is in vain.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Mar  7 04:27:44 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:27:44 +0100
Subject: How to flush print
In-Reply-To: <1d17eeb7.0403061352.15aa1acc@posting.google.com>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403061352.15aa1acc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040307092744.GB4053@nl.linux.org>

Jay Davis wrote:
> If you open a file the usual way, you can flush
> the output buffer with .flush().  How do you flush
> the output buffer of a print command, either
> 'print string' or 'print >>ofile, string' ?

print string

is really short for

sys.stdout.write("%s" % string)

so you can flush it with

sys.stdout.flush()

Gerrit.
-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 07/03 08:55 UTC:
	6.0?C Few clouds partly cloudy wind 3.1 m/s W (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 00:03:15 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 05:03:15 GMT
Subject: Need advice on choosing skills.
References: <Pu47c.69630$u_5.47406@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <nm97c.37843$PY.23041@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Randall Smith <randall at tnr.cc> wrote:
> The big question.  In the limited time I have, what technologies would 
> you suggest I learn and why?  I realize the question 'Depends' on many 
> factors.  If it helps, I'm not money-hungry.  I simply want to be 
> productive, help others with my skills, and make choices that are good 
> for the computing world at large.

If your focus is on doing useful stuff, then learn things that will
directly help you in that goal. For example, I would suggest a
cross-platform Python GUI as a good next step. I chose wxPython myself
because it can run and look native on Windows, Mac, and all forms of
Unix that GTK has been ported to (which is just about all of the popular
ones). I wanted to pick a GUI that would let me *easily* write
cross-platform apps that would run on Unix, Mac and Windows, because
there's a lack of quality open-source software for the latter two
platforms. I rejected Tkinter because adding another scripting language
underneath Python seemed a bit much, and I didn't find that Tkinter
looked "native enough" on Windows. (I understand that it has improved a
bit since I looked at it, but by now I've invested enough time in
learning wxPython that I'll just stick with that.)

After learning wxPython, I'd suggest the Twisted framework as a good
next step. (You could also very productively switch the order and learn
Twisted first, then wxPython). As of the latest version of Twisted, it
integrates nicely with wxPython, and the more I learn Twisted, the more
impressed I am with how easy it makes it to do rather powerful things.

After wxPython and Twisted, if you still have time, I'd suggest moving
away from programming languages and spending some time playing around
wiht a good database like PostgreSQL. Beyond that, if you've still got
more time, look into one of the Python-based Web frameworks. There I
can't give you a recommendation, as I'm not too familiar with them
myself.

Between Python, a GUI like wxPython, a framework like Twisted, a
transactional database system like PostgresQL, and a solid Web framework
like (insert your favorite here), you'll have a lot of quality,
multi-purpose tools in your programming toolkit with which to build
whatever application you might desire.

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Mon Mar 22 21:27:08 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:27:08 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> trevp at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin) writes:
> 
>>
>>What about a subclass of Random that provides an interface to
>>platform-specific secure RNGs:
[...]
> 
> I think it's extremely desirable and important to add such an
> interface, and maybe it should go in the random module, but it
> shouldn't be a subclass of Random.  Random is intended to be a
> deterministic generator.


I see that seed(), getstate() and setstate() imply determinism.

Aside from those, the nice thing about subclassing Random is you'd only 
have to implement random() and getrandbits() and you'd get randrange(), 
randint(), choice(), shuffle(), and sample() for free.  So it might be 
worth it, even if you have to raise NotImplementedError for a few methods.

Actually, Random could be made even easier to subclass.  getrandbits 
(which is new in 2.4) returns a long.  It would be better for us if 
there was a getrandstring() function that an underlying generator could 
implement.  This would also be a helpful addition to the API, at least 
for cryptographic uses.


Trevor


http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-random.html


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 12:26:12 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:26:12 -0800
Subject: A GOTO example (was question: numarray c extension...)
In-Reply-To: <pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <c2ss14$dp0$2@news.service.uci.edu>

It is arbitrarily trivial to convert it to use an error boolean.

  - Josiah



static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
{
     PyObject   *okernel,...;
     PyArrayObject *kernel = NULL;
     bool error = 0;

     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...)) {
         PyErr_Format(_convolveError,
                     "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");
         error = 1;
     }
     kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
     if (!kernel...) {
         PyErr_Format( _convolveError,
                  "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
         error = 1;
     }

     ...more stuff...

     if (!error) {
         Py_XDECREF(kernel)
         return the result
     } else {
         Py_XDECREF(kernel)
         return NULL;
     }
}


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Mar 31 09:11:34 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:11:34 GMT
Subject: proper use of braces in Python (was: Prothon Prototypes vs
	Python Classes)
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qkAac.23$3E1.10@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list at python.org...
>
> >>Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
> >>next line" wars.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >    int main (void)
> >    {
> >        if (true)
> >        {
> >        }
> >
> >        return 0;
> >    }
> >
> >There is no other way.
> >
> >
> No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!
>
> int main ( void ) {
>     if ( true ) {
>         return 1;
>     }
>     return 0;
> }
>
> This is clearly better. Compact yet easy to read. I try formatting my
> Python code exactly like this and it always complains about my braces..
> clearly wrong.
>
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/wiki?WhereDoTheBracesGo

Not having to deal with this #$*^!!@ is just about my favorite feature of
Python!  (Although I'm not excited about getting into a thread on an issue
that is so flame-prone.  Honestly, though. "There is no other way."?  "This
is clearly better."?  I really interpret your stance as "This is the way I'm
used to."  What's annoying is the added "... and therefore superior."
implication.  The visual cues provided by brace placement are extremely
subjective, and what is "clearly better" to one is confusing to another.)

Is it so difficult to accept that this is a personal style/preference issue?
I agree that having a consistent form across an entire project makes things
simpler overall, it's not worth the aggravation of coercing a style on those
who vigorously and adamantly prefer their own.  Furthermore,...

Oh wait, Python doesn't *have* braces!  Whew!  (What a funny subject for a
thread on c.l.py - April Fool's Day is come a bit early?)

-- Paul






From tyrone_1066 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 28 03:15:13 2004
From: tyrone_1066 at yahoo.com (J Hamilton)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 00:15:13 -0800
Subject: Variable in Regex
References: <c1cb4138.0403271250.70e336d0@posting.google.com>
	<c44r1e$nat$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <c1cb4138.0403280015.123a2a42@posting.google.com>

Christian von Essen <christian at mvonessen.de> wrote in message news:<c44r1e$nat$1 at online.de>...
> J Hamilton wrote:
> > In Perl in can put a scalar variable in a regex as the pattern.
> > 
> > for example: m/$var/  where $var contains the string I want to match
> > 
> > Is there a way to do this in Python?
> 
> For example:
> re.search("%s" % var, StrinToMatch)
> or even simpler:
> re.search(var, StringToMatch)

I don't know what I was doing wrong, but it works now.

Thanks for the help!


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar  8 20:02:53 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:02:53 -0500
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <slrnc4ptnh.v3n.grey@dmiyu.org>
	<2004030818081575249%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <c2j53s$l6d$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Simon Willison" <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:2004030818081575249%cs1spw at bathacuk...
> On 2004-03-08 16:42:57 -0600, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> said:
> >     Install Mailman and make the list postable only by you.  :P
>
> We've already looked at mailman and a number of other packages. None of
> them fit our requirements as we need to be able to tie the list
> administration in to our existing user authentication / admin control
> panel, plus we want to tie the email lists to our membership databases.
> We've got most of the other infrastructure already, we just need an
> efficient way of sending out bulk emails to a large list of addresses.

If mailman is open source, you could maybe take from it what you need and
adapt it to fit into your existing system.

tjr






From james.kew at btinternet.com  Tue Mar  2 13:03:23 2004
From: james.kew at btinternet.com (James Kew)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:03:23 -0000
Subject: Computing test methods in unittest.TestCase
References: <4044BE1E.7000408@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <c22i8b$1nutfo$1@ID-71831.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
news:4044BE1E.7000408 at jandecaluwe.com...
>> class FSMTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     ....
>     for st, trs in transitionTable.items():
>         for i, tr in enumerate(trs):
>             def _tmpfunc(self, st=st, tr=tr):
>                 sim = Simulation(self.bench(st, tr))
>                 sim.run()
>             _tmpfunc.func_doc = "Check state %s - %s" % (st, getDoc(tr))
>             exec "test_%s_%s = _tmpfunc" % (st, i)
>
> This works, but uses some "ugly" tricks:
>
> * default arguments to pass context info. As the code is executed in
>   class context, not function context, I cannot use free variables.
> * The use of 'exec'. unittest looks for methods with name prefix
>   'test_' in the class namespace, and I didn't find another way
>   to achieve that.
>
> Anyone with better ideas?

Define the test methods after defining the class, and inject them into the
class with setattr:

class testClass:
    pass

def makeTest(param):
    def test(self):
        print "test: param=%s" % param
    return test

setattr(testClass, "test1", makeTest(1))
setattr(testClass, "testHello", makeTest("Hello"))

>>> t = testClass()
>>> t.test1()
test: param=1
>>> t.testHello()
test: param=Hello

James




From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Mon Mar 29 00:43:51 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 21:43:51 -0800
Subject: ZODB for beginners - the most simple example ?
References: <282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6@posting.google.com>
	<jo2dnUsFtu39mPrd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <282f826a.0403282143.2d9c570a@posting.google.com>

DH <no at sp.am> wrote in message news:<jo2dnUsFtu39mPrd4p2dnA at comcast.com>...
> Richard Shea wrote:
> > Hi - I'm trying to use ZODB but I'm having trouble getting started.
> > Can anyone point me at a very simple example ?
> > 
> > I've had a look at 'ZODB/ZEO Programming Guide'
> > (http://zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node2.html) but although
> > it's good stuff it's not clear to me how the pieces of example fit
> > together to produce something that works.
> > 
> > I've also read 'Introduction to the Zope Object Database'
> > (http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/fulton/zodb3.html)
> > which has good examples but they rely on a module called 'PTextIndex'
> > which (as far as I can see) is not defined anywhere.
> > 
> > So if anyone could point me at a very, very simple ZODB usage example
> > I'd be very grateful (and I should just say that both of the above
> > resources are very helpful so thanks to their authors).
> 
> You're right, it's hard to find a simple, complete example.  The ZODB 
> download doesn't include any examples either.
> This article has an example, although it is over 3 years old:
> http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=23413
Thanks for that - it looks great, I'll have a go.

regards

richard.


From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 04:46:03 2004
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:46:03 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.130.1080667110.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>	<20040330143520.31dccb5e.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>
	<mailman.130.1080667110.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Fqwac.538$_n1.337@news.get2net.dk>

Gary Herron wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 05:35 am, Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> 
>>>>GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
>>>
>>>Is this Linux only ?
>>>(pardon my terrible ignorance...)
>>
>>Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...
> 
> 
<snip GTK _is_ cross-platform>
> 
> Here's several pointers:
>   http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq21.012.htp
>   http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/
> 
> Gary Herron
> 

Hi,

i downloaded and installed the GTK runtime environment v. 2.2.4-2 and 
PyGTK 2.2.0 for Python 2.3. The installation went fine and I added the 
path to GTK/lib and bin. I run a helloworld program, but unfortunely I 
get this error message which I quite puzzled about (translated from danish)

(helloworld.py:3308): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not find the theme engine in 
module_path: 'wimp'

Does anyone have clue what to do?

Regards
Jorgen Cederberg


From terry.foo at power.alstom.com  Mon Mar 29 22:09:04 2004
From: terry.foo at power.alstom.com (terry.foo at power.alstom.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:09:04 +0800
Subject: Python
Message-ID: <OF0A21DF54.6F61F22F-ON48256E67.00110AE4-48256E67.0010E2EF@transport.alstom.com>


Python is a very easy to learn for non-programmers compared with other
languages such as C, C++, Java, and Visual Basic.
During the try out, I've learnt on how to edit programs in text editor or
IDLE, save them to disk and run them once they have been saved.
Also I've learnt the string and regular expression processing, XML support
in Python.






From beliavsky at aol.com  Sun Mar 21 18:52:53 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 15:52:53 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403211552.3cc4d710@posting.google.com>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some 
> and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language 
> similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in the 
> wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish 
> language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's basic 
> syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to denote 
> code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) 

<SNIP>

Especially if you are using Python for numerical work, in which case
you are probably using the array modules Numeric or Numarray, I would
recommend Fortran 95. Like Python, it does not have end-of-statement
markers or use curly braces to delimit blocks of code. Code blocks are
ended with explicit statements, not indentation, a difference from
Python, but Fortran code is often indented in a way similar to Python.
Fortran 95 is not as concise as Python, but in return I would say it
is more self-documenting.

To get started with Fortran 95, you could try F, a subset compiler
that is available for free on Linux and Windows -- see
http://www.fortran.com/F/compilers.html. A project create a free
Fortran 95 compiler using GCC is well underway -- see
http://gcc.gnu.org/fortran/. FWIW, many Fortran 95 programmers'
favorite scripting language is Python.

In my experience, numerical Fortran code is often more than an order
of magnitude faster than the Python equivalent.


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 18:09:51 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 15:09:51 -0800
Subject: DLL version number
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e@posting.google.com>

Hi,

If I have a Windows DLL file, how can I retrieve its version number
(e.g.: 2.40.4275.1)? Does Win32 extensions, ctypes or related modules
provide such a utility?

regards,

Hung Jung


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Wed Mar 24 13:23:21 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:23:21 GMT
Subject: splitString output as argument to string format fails?
Message-ID: <tmk8c.8739$fg3.1169@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

List:

I'm trying to pull comma delimited data from a file, then format for
display in a listBox.  I'm using string.split()

When I do:

    print string.split(myInputLine, ',')

I get something like:

['Mon Mar 22 09:37:28 2004', ' <cbLogger>', ' -- Log opened
successfully\n']

But when I attempt something like:

    f = '%s %s %s' % string.split(eachLine, ',')

I get:

TypeError: not enough arguments for format string

How do I convert the output of string.split into something the format
operator is happy with?  I'm looking for an "oh well of COURSE" thing,
rather than looping over the output list and creating a tuple, assuming
one exists.

Thanx


Charles Krug



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 11:29:18 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:29:18 +0100
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
In-Reply-To: <abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c27lfc$5kq$1@swifty.westend.com>

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah schrieb:
>    If you do *programming* without knowing what to pass to a
 >    function
> or what a function returns, you're a complete idiot as a idiot can be.
> Moreover, if you take it as an argument against PHP, you're yet
> another ignorant and obviously you don't have any rights to speak
> about PHP nor anything.

Excuse me ... Does the life of your children depend on a friendly.
reception of PHP? I'm just searching a reason for your aggressiveness.
Never saw that in c.l.py.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From tom at peresys.co.za  Sun Mar  7 13:13:46 2004
From: tom at peresys.co.za (Tomasz Stochmal)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 10:13:46 -0800
Subject: no inline comments
Message-ID: <f20ea932.0403071013.2d5e734c@posting.google.com>

Hi


I have been using Python for the past 2 years in commercial environment

One lacking feature is inline comments like in C /* this is comnment */

What is a chance of introducing it to next release of Python ?


Regards,
Tom


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 17 10:09:09 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:09:09 -0600
Subject: F_GETLK Working?
In-Reply-To: <1a26ae5d.0403162128.4f47bee2@posting.google.com>
References: <1a26ae5d.0403162128.4f47bee2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040317150908.GH2446@unpythonic.net>

Because strings are immutable, this line
    rv = fcntl.fcntl(lock_file, fcntl.F_GETLK, flk)
can't modify the value of flk.  Instead, the value you want is returned
in rv.  Try changing the last 2 lines to
    locked = struct.unpack('hhllhl', rv)[0]
    print locked
on my system, this prints 2, which is the value of F_UNLCK.

Jeff



From noemail at noemail4u.com  Tue Mar  9 14:34:02 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 19:34:02 GMT
Subject: URGENT: REALLY NEED HELP: Feel Helpless
References: <mailman.161.1078824314.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58f1830732db3474bb424b82ee7d0168@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:25:05 -0800 (PST), dont bother
<dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hey Friends,
>I am stuck up. I have to finish this class project. I
>went up trying out python in the only few days I had,
>and now I feel a bit nervous about . I have to
>complete my project amidst finals. The only problem I
>have is in generating feature vectors for spam
>classification. The rest I can do myself with a C
>engine.
    Sorry I do not have any help for you.
    What class are you taking?  It sounds a little interesting, if
this is the project.
    --dang


From michael at foord.net  Tue Mar 30 08:10:13 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 05:10:13 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>

I may be about to get flamed as some heretic against the ancient
way..... but if assignment in conditional statements isn't
possible.... why do we need to use '==' instead of just '=' for if and
while statements ?

It's possible there are places where the interpreter could fail to
understand it, but I haven't found them yet. If there *aren't* any
situations where one could be confused for the other... then it's not
needed and is annoying :-)

The same could equally well be true for the trailing ':' after def, if
etc statements..............


Anyway - not withstanding a  visit from the spanish inquisitionI'd be
interested to hear.....(And are the spanish inquisition likely to use
reasoning similar to the sort employed by those who advocate type
declarations and static languages)...

Regards,

Fuzzy
(recent python addict)

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From ggg at zzz.it  Thu Mar 18 09:06:22 2004
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:22 +0100
Subject: Python,mysql question
In-Reply-To: <a4648036.0403180509.5ce9df39@posting.google.com>
References: <a4648036.0403180509.5ce9df39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <klfc3c.6q3.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

james blair wrote:

> Hi
> I have a search page & the reults for the search are fetched from the
> database.
so you are doing web stuff?

> I want that on the results page only first 25 results are shown & a
> link "next 25 results" be shown.Same for the 2nd result page.
> How do I do this?
basically you re-run the mysql query at each page request.
check mysql's limit and offset keywords:
<http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_SQL_Syntax.html#SELECT>

-- 
@prefix foaf: <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
<#me> a foaf:Person ; foaf:nick "deelan" ;
foaf:weblog <http://www.deelan.com/> .


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Wed Mar 17 14:10:34 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:10:34 +0100
Subject: Base64 encoding/decoding
References: <mailman.94.1079539351.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.17.19.10.32.750170@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:02:25 +0100, Oliver Kurz wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem by converting a string to base64 and back again.
> 
> I have a string with german special chars like ????. 
> 
> This string i convert with base64str=base64.encode('????') into a base64 
> representation.

encode you string in utf

>>> lol='????'.decode('iso-8859-1').encode('UTF8')
'\xc3\xa4\xc3\xb6\xc3\xbc\xc3\x9f'
>>> base64.decodestring(base64.encodestring(lol))
'\xc3\xa4\xc3\xb6\xc3\xbc\xc3\x9f

this should work

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From km at mrna.tn.nic.in  Sat Mar 20 22:01:28 2004
From: km at mrna.tn.nic.in (km)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:31:28 +0530
Subject: DB module tutorial
Message-ID: <20040321030128.GA10458@mrna.tn.nic.in>

Hi all,

Where can i find  PoPy  and psycopg tutorials ? 
i googled but in vain --- 
thanks in advance .
KM





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 14:15:58 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:15:58 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6-dnbGjQMNyTNXdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

jon c wrote:
> if you try and execute the command directly from bat you get the error 
> input line too long!
> 
> can perl be somehow bypassing the windows terminal and running the 
> command directly (does this make sense?)

Sure it can.  Anything's possible.  Code samples please!

-Peter


From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Thu Mar 11 04:00:37 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 01:00:37 -0800
Subject: How to downgrade/remove ZODB (or any other module)?
References: <282f826a.0403100205.5d6070e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <282f826a.0403110100.93c7c49@posting.google.com>

OK that's great - thanks to both of you. Although I had used the .EXE
to install for some reason I hadn't considered it putting an
'uninstall' entry in the control panel. I've just done it and it seems
to work fine.

thanks again.

richard shea.


From ark at acm.org  Wed Mar 17 11:54:12 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:54:12 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>


"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list at python.org...
Andrew Koenig wrote:
> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c at posting.google.com...
>
> > Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is
> unspecified
> > and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.
>
> Hardly.  It has two fundamental properties, which can
> sometimes be useful:
>
>     1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" yields True.
>
>     2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True.
> Equivalently, if
> "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also yields False.

Assuming nobody has overridden __eq__, of course. ;)

Indeed -- if == is redefined so as not to be an equivalence relation, all
bets are off.




From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Mar 25 18:27:37 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:27:37 GMT
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.419.1080242529.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.419.1080242529.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <JVJ8c.29019$zL3.16798@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

Ian Sparks wrote:
> Consider doing the GUI with Delphi and the objects with Python?
> 
> You can do this via Python COM wrappers or by embedding Python using Python for Delphi : http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm
> 
> Good luck.
> 

this sounds like a good idea if i go with delphi.  my app might be 
simple, though, that the data-bound controls might be the only objects i 
  need.

does anyone think going for the all-python solution is the better way to go?

i'm looking at the BoaConstructor site now (a wxPython gui builder). 
looks like it does a lot.  but still alpha after four years.  that's a 
little unpromising to a newcomer.



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 19:50:04 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:50:04 -0800
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4057A0BC.124F8B55@alcyone.com>

srijit at yahoo.com wrote:

> I would like to know the definition of type safe and whether Python
> can be considered as a type safe language. Similarly are Java, C# or
> C++ type safe?

It depends what you mean by "type safe."  I've heard two broad
definitions commonly used:

- objects have an intrinsic type which dictates how they behave, objects
define how operations on them behave, rather than operations defining
how untyped objects behave

- the type system in the language cannot be thwarted through unsafe
casts and the like

Python and Java meet both definitions; I'm not sure about C# since I
know there are unsafe operations supported within it (unlike Java) but I
don't know if they allow for defeating the type system.  C++ probably
meets the first definition, but definitely doesn't meet the second.  C
probably doesn't meet either.  A weakly-typed language like Perl doesn't
meet the first definition either.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Here day fights with night.
    -- (the last words of Victor Hugo)


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 14 20:19:58 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:19:58 +1300
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
	<mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c330c0$249vui$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Not so.  del sys.modules['mod']/import mod is effectively what reload()
> does.

Not quite -- reload() keeps the existing module object and changes
its contents, whereas the above sequence creates a new module
object.

The difference will be apparent if any other modules have done
'import mod' before the reload.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 14:21:01 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:21:01 -0000
Subject: Combinatorics of dual-language use (was: Choosing Perl/Python for
	my particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<106alaf403jgs54@corp.supernews.com>
	<c44ine$ad6$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <106bl0t31fub51f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c44ine$ad6$1 at nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>,
Tassilo v. Parseval <tassilo.parseval at post.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>When it comes to embedding C/C++ into Perl, SWIG is the last thing that
>I'd recommend. It may be capable of transforming such a library into a
>Perl module on its own with no user intervention. However, C/C++ doesn't
>map particularly well onto Perl from an interface point-of-view: A 1:1
>translation of a C++ API doesn't look particularly good.
>
>Those things should be done manually. How much work this is depends on
>the library. Some only require a few lines of XS. XS' learning curve is
>admittedly a bit steep. Not because it is difficult in itself but rather
>because the documentation leaves a few things to be desired. There are
>some actions on completing perlxstut.pod on its way right now, though.
>
>There is also Inline::CPP, although I don't think it is as mature as
>Inline::C. And since you have mentioned Tcl, even that can be inlined
>with the help of Inline::Tcl.
			.
			.
			.
As I think about it more, maybe Inline::C (or Tcl's
Critcl, for that matter) *is* something that would
suit the original poster roughly as well as Pyrex.

Incidentally, I've heard that Inline::Tcl might be
an area of renewed interest; it has an inverse in
tclperl.  
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From tmohr at s.netic.de  Mon Mar  8 11:40:14 2004
From: tmohr at s.netic.de (Torsten Mohr)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:40:14 +0100
Subject: wrapping C++, how to wrap an object?
References: <c2equb$4la$2@schleim.qwe.de>
	<404aff25$0$3954$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <c2i7le$4nl$1@schleim.qwe.de>

Hi,

thanks for that hint.

But is there no way to do this in plain python?

I don't really want to use any additional libraries,
as i want to use this code in the office and license
problems are always a big problem there.

Can i somehow wrap a C++ object in a python data type
just without any additional libraries?


Best regards,
Torsten.


> AFAIK, you have 2 mainstream choices for wrapping C++:
>      1.  Boost.Python - http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/
>      2.  SWIG - http://www.swig.org/
> 
> I'm also aware of:
>      3.  SIP - http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/docs/sipref.html
> 
> I use Boost.Python and have found it to be excellent.
> 
> --
> Mike



From kevino at tulane.edu  Mon Mar 22 18:05:48 2004
From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:05:48 -0800
Subject: SOLVED: Re: ftplib - uploading files using transfercmd?
References: <ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7mru509ghdlv0cfu538nfau3kcs3vtn268@4ax.com>

OK, I finally figured out how to fix my problems with the FTP commands
being issued in the wrong order - after I've finished uploading the
file, I have to call ftplib.voidresp().

Is it possible to get this added as a note to the docs for
ftplib.transfercmd()?  IIUC, you must always call ftp.voidresp() after
uploading a file using transfercmd(), and if that's the case, then I
think it'd be helpful to add a note about it in the ftplib docs so
that the next person to come along and try something like this doesn't
run into the same problem. 

Thanks,

Kevin

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:17:16 -0800, Kevin Ollivier <kevino at tulane.edu>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I've come across a problem that has me stumped, and I thought I'd send
>a message to the gurus to see if this makes sense to anyone else. =) 
>
>Basically, I'm trying to upload a series of files via FTP. I'm using
>ftplib to do it, and for each file I'm using transfercmd("STOR " +
>myfile) to get the socket, then uploading 4096 bytes at a time and
>providing status updates via a GUI interface. Finally, I close the
>socket, set it to None, then move on to the next file. I'm using
>active FTP to upload.
>
>The first file uploads just fine, but on the second file I'm
>consistently seeing a weird problem where the response to the PORT
>command (sent by self.makeport()) comes *after* the STOR command is
>sent. The order in which the commands are sent doesn't seem to differ,
>only the order in which the FTP server responds differs. This causes
>the transfercmd() call to see an 'error' because the repsonse to the
>PORT command is a 200, but it expects a response in the 100s. I've
>posted the actual FTP debug calls below. 
>
>I can resolve the problem by continually re-logging into the server,
>but I'd like to avoid doing that if possible. I've tried setting the
>file mode to binary as well as ASCII with the same results.
>
>Any clues on what I may be going wrong? Has anyone seen anything like
>this before? I couldn't find anything while googling... TIA for any
>help!
>
>Kevin
>
>#uploading first file...
>*cmd* u'CWD /newlook/tutorial/'
>*put* u'CWD /newlook/tutorial/\r\n'
>*get* '250 CWD command successful.\r\n'
>*resp* '250 CWD command successful.'
>*cmd* 'TYPE I'
>*put* 'TYPE I\r\n'
>*get* '200 Type set to I.\r\n'
>*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
>item = /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm
>*cmd* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,230'
>*put* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,230\r\n'
>*get* '200 PORT command successful.\r\n'
>*resp* '200 PORT command successful.'
>*cmd* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm'
>*put* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm\r\n'
>*get* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
>/newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm.\r\n'
>*resp* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
>/newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm.'
>*cmd* 'TYPE I'
>*put* 'TYPE I\r\n'
>*get* '226 Transfer complete.\r\n'
>*resp* '226 Transfer complete.'
>
>#uploading second file...
>item = /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm
>*cmd* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,231'
>*put* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,231\r\n'
>*get* '200 Type set to I.\r\n'
>*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
>*cmd* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm'
>*put* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm\r\n'
>*get* '200 PORT command successful.\r\n'
>*resp* '200 PORT command successful.'
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 1083, in
>UploadPage
>    self.UploadFiles(ftpfiles)
>  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 921, in
>UploadFiles
>    ftp.UploadFiles()
>  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 1908, in
>UploadFiles
>    self.mysocket = self.host.transfercmd('STOR ' + dir + myitem)
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
>    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\ftplib.py", line 336, in ntransfercmd
>    raise error_reply, resp
>ftplib.error_reply: 200 PORT command successful.



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 20:26:39 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:26:39 -0800
Subject: wxDirDialog
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c35la1$sdi$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> How does one use wxDirDialog to select and get a computer name from the network?
> 
> Or which widget should i use to accomplish this?

If you are in Windows, check the Network Neighborhood.  If you are on 
any other platform, I don't know.

I have never tried to select a file on a computer through network 
neighborhood, so don't know if you get what you want (something like 
\\computername\service\path\file ) or not.

  - Josiah


From ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com  Mon Mar  1 04:56:59 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:56:59 GMT
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>
	<pan.2004.03.01.05.57.25.838105@socal.rr.com>
	<l6C0c.8261$ko6.195399@attbi_s02>
Message-ID: <LND0c.18910$lS1.4715@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com> wrote in message
news:l6C0c.8261$ko6.195399 at attbi_s02...
> Ed Murphy wrote:
> > On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:12:48 +0000, Rainer Deyke wrote:
> >> 2. Python programs are somewhat difficult to distribute compared to
> >> programs in languages that compile to native code.
> >
> > How do you figure this one?  Something to do with statically linked
> > libraries?  (I'm a Python newbie, but have been programming in general
> > for almost 20 years, about half of that professionally.)
>
> Basically you have to distribute the Python interpreter along with your
> program, since you generally can't rely on the end user having (the
correct
> version of) Python installed.
>
Utilities such as py2exe and McMillan Installer make this problem much
simpler.  Real-world example:  I needed to provide a customer with a *very*
simple HTTP server for centrally serving up a global configuration file.  My
prototype was 2 lines of Python code (actual finished version was about 50
lines, including some signal handling), used McInstaller to create a
free-standing distributable .EXE file (that fit on a 3-1/2" floppy!).  Very
portable, does not require Python to be installed on the target platform.

-- Paul




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Mar 24 11:51:36 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:51:36 -0300
Subject: new style classes
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837B3@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu wrote:

#- I've seen every where this term of new style classes that 
#- inherits from a base
#- class Object, but I haven't realize the advantage that this 
#- approach offers.
#- 
#- Any one has some link where I can read about it?

Go here:

http://www.python.org/doc/newstyle.html

.	Facundo



From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Wed Mar 24 09:58:21 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:58:21 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
	<ltSdnejduc5-df3dRVn-uA@speedfactory.net>
	<l2a260lj050pch3sq57vfp29rsq099tgp9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <R_-dnWZLi4KTP_zdRVn-vg@speedfactory.net>


"Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:l2a260lj050pch3sq57vfp29rsq099tgp9 at 4ax.com...

>  > ============================================================== <
>  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <


VY 73 DE N4TMI
Michael




From peter at semantico.com  Thu Mar 18 04:35:23 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:23 +0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyfish387hb.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.17.1079403162.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4056c64d$0$3473$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfish387hb.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <40596d5b$0$10731$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>So just how is Python strongly typed 'like in C, C++, etc'?
> 
> 
> It isn't. It's _more_ strongly typed that C and C++ :-)
> 
> If you are really interested in the answer, I've already explained it
> to you elsewhere in this thread, and you can Google for it.
> 
> Happy trolling.

What I want is Premshree's answer. Because, unless you can read his 
mind, you do not know what he meant when he said that. Your 
interpretation of what he said is only that.

Come on Premshree, how is Python strongly typed like in C, C++ etc?

Examples, not handwaving.


From haim at babysnakes.org  Sun Mar  7 20:01:12 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:01:12 +0200
Subject: Eric /Qt documentation / how-to?
References: <yux2c.729744$ts4.93229@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <c2ggko$1ei$1@sea.gmane.org>

Stewart Midwinter wrote:

> I'm trying to get an idea of how the Eric3 IDE works.  I've got it
> installed and running, and also have the Qt Designer installed and
> running. Thanks to a a tutorial I found in the Qt section of the
> moinmoin at python.org, I have figured out how to use .ui files in a
> python script to create my GUI.  So far, so good.
> 
> What I don't see is the value I would get from using Eric3.  I mean, I
> can use the Scintilla editor on a standalone basis, and launch Qt
> Designer manually.  What extra value would I get by using Eric3?  Is
> there a way to create .py files out of .ui files by using Eric3?
just right click on your *.ui file in the project window and select "compile
form" or something like that.

you also have project management with version control support (although I
havn't yet tried this feature), debugging and refactoring.


> 
> Lastly, is there any documentation that explains how to make best use of
> Eric3?
> 
> thanks
> Stewart

Bye
--
Haim




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 18 20:07:16 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:07:16 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.26.1079372001.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4.1079384865.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ehk505t73do9jtbpiro97u142e93mhiak@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:50:47 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>Please file a bug report on Sourceforge so your ideas don't get lost.  Feel
>free to assign it to me (sf id == "montanaro").

Done. SF bug ID is 919099.  Here is the proposed addition to
reload(module), just after the first paragraph:

"""
When reload(module) is executed:

The objects defined in module are compiled and loaded into memory as
new objects.

The old objects remain in memory until all references to them are
gone, and they are removed by the normal garbage-collection process.

The names in the module namespace are updated to point to any new or
changed objects.  Names of unchanged objects, or of objects no longer
present in the new module, remain pointing at the old objects.

Names in other modules that refer directly to the old objects (without
the module-name qualifier) remain unchanged and must be updated in
each namespace where they occur.
"""

Anyone with corrections or clarifications, speak now.

Also here is a bit that I'm not sure of from my write-up on reload()
at http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm:

Footnotes
[1]  Reload(M1) is equivalent to the following:
>>> file = open(M1.__file__.rstrip('c'), 'r')
>>> file.seek(0)  # needed if this is not the first reload
>>> exec file in M1.__dict__  # repeat from line 2
>>> file.close()

-- Dave



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Mar  9 13:18:59 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:18:59 GMT
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.178.1078846905.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxoer5j33g.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Robert Boyd <robhboyd at yahoo.com> writes:

> --- Jim Benson <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> >   Does anyone know of a source code editor for
> > python
> > that has the following characteristics:
> > 
> > 1) Freeware (desired)
> > 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> > 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> > 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired) 
> > 
> > 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all
> > methods/functions 
> >    data elements in the file. (required)
> > 
> 
> I use jEdit (jedit.org). It's written in Java and the
> available plugins tend to be oriented towards Java
> development, but it does Python syntax highlighting,
> code browsing with ctags, can open separate windows
> for each file or put them in tabs, etc, etc. Lots of
> additional plugins like task lists, CVS, remote
> editing through FTP or SFTP... you can even dock a
> Jython interpreter into it, or a Python debugger. No
> code completion for Python, though. I tried Eclipse
> for Python development for about a week then went back
> to jEdit.
> 
> Rob
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
> 

Emacs with python-mode.el.  For "5" (jump to name), remember to look
at the IM-Python menu.  



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar  4 12:14:18 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:14:18 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:52:27 GMT, Dang Griffith 
>On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0700, David MacQuigg wrote:
>
>>The 'print' statement is just shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write' with
>>some convenience features suitable for most users.  If you need
>>something else, just define your own shortcut, don't deprecate a
>>statement that is exactly what most users want.
>
>'print' is not a shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write'.
>'print' is a statement.  'sys.stdout.write' is a function.
>You can't define a shortcut for a statement.

I'm not using the word 'shortcut' very precisely.  Mark Lutz says what
I mean more clearly in Learning Python, 2nd ed. p. 143: "the print
statement ... provides a user-friendly interface to the sys.stdout
object, with bit of default formatting."  I conclude from this that
'print' has no special functionality unavailable through the stdout
object, and that the proper way to change the default user-friendly
interface is to write a new one, doing just what 'print' does, but
with different defaults.

What I think is going on "under the hood" with the print statement is:

def print(*args):
   for arg in args:
      sys.stdout.write(arg)
      sys.stdout.write(' ')
   sys.stdout.write('\n')

To make a variation on this, just add or delete the extra formatting.
Of course, we need to call it something besides the keyword 'print'.

-- Dave


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Fri Mar 26 06:00:18 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:00:18 +0100
Subject: mxDateTime function DateFromString gives wrong year
In-Reply-To: <tan760la6aejk7ahtus5csfg2rc2pkjif7@4ax.com>
References: <c3s4r2$2bl6t3$1@uni-berlin.de>
	<tan760la6aejk7ahtus5csfg2rc2pkjif7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c412g7$2d20ui$1@uni-berlin.de>

Tim Roberts schrieb:
> Sibylle Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is very nearly a repetition of a post by Peter Hansen from 
>>2002-07-07 which never got an answer:
>>
>>
>>>>>x = mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('Nov 2003')
>>>>>x
>>
>><DateTime object for '2004-11-20 00:00:00.00' at a61ba0>
>>
>>Using mx.DateTime Version 2.0.5 for Python 2.3 and ActivePython 2.3.2.
>>
>>The original posting had the same problem with 'October 29/2000'. This 
>>isn't corrected either, it still converts to 2004-10-29.
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced that's a bug.  The slash is not a valid separator for
> DateFromString once it finds a named month, so the parse terminates there.
> It sees "October 29" and assumes the current year.  Replace the slash with
> a comma and it will work fine.

This case is a citation from the original post from 2002. My actual 
problem is with "Nov 2003" which is converted to a date in November 
2004. And I think what P. Hansen cited from the mx.DateTime 
documentation in his original posting is equally valid here:

"The module knows about quite a few different date and time formats and 
will try very hard to come up with a reasonable output given a valid input."

For the example "October 29/2000" replacing the slash with ', ' does 
work. For my "Nov 2003" inserting a comma doesn't help.

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 26 15:39:50 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:39:50 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
Message-ID: <106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>


"D Martin" <dgmartin98.REMOVEME at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018 at edtnps84...
>
> 3 solutions:
>
> 1. Use spaces instead of tabs.  Hit the space bar yourself, or an editor
> that replaces tabs with spaces.
> 2. Include as a .py or text file instead of inline.
> 3. Get a different email program.

All of these fail for one simple reason. Let's hit
the chorus, guys:

"We're right, everybody else needs to change..."

The hard fact is, lots of utility programs treat
tabs in wild and wonderful ways, many of which
are not under the control of the user. There's
a reason why the Python standard is spaces, and
why tabs will be eliminated as an option in 3.0.

John Roth
>
>
>
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
> news:1068up4kn49778 at news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> > news:p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si at 4ax.com...
> > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000, Peter Hickman
> > > <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like'
> > > >language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
> > > >
> > > >Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is
what
> > > >makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to
define
> > > >scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being
> borrowed
> > > >from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.
> > >
> > > Very interesting ...
> >
> > Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
> > tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
> > a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
> > Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
> > lines, thus destroying the indentation.
> >
> > An interesting language that has just dropped off of
> > my radar screen as being unusable in my environment.
> >
> > John Roth
> >
> >
>
>




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 20 15:10:33 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:10:33 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105p9ah8rteaqdf@news.supernews.com>

"Ed Cogburn" <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org...
>
> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around
some
> and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a
language
> similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in
the
> wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish
> language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's
basic
> syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to
denote
> code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced
dynamic
> and OO features would still be interesting to me (indeed, it would really
have
> to lose most of the dynamic characteristics in order to make it a
compilable
> language, which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).
Is
> there such a thing?

Have you considered Java? [grin]

Actually, that's not a joke. I recently saw a blog entry from
someone who stripped off all of the unnecessary syntax (mostly
braces and semi-colons) from a Java program and presented the
results. It was amazingly readable! I suspect one could hack the Eclipse
editor to do this on the fly and convert back whenever the program
is stored.

Java doesn't, of course meet the criterion of being a compiled
language, but if readability is the major criterion (and it's
certainly one for me), then a hacked up open source editor with
a decent compiled language might be a solution.

John Roth


>
>




From eric at zomething.com  Sat Mar 20 19:50:51 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:50:51 -0800
Subject: problem with a css cycler
Message-ID: <20040320165051.741740905.eric@zomething.com>

Adriano wrote:

> I am trying to build a css cycler in python, to change the css used in a 
> website every X number of days, using a list of files: the first X days 
> it'd show file1, then file2, then file3, then back to the first one.
> 
> The code I came up with is the following:
> 
> css = ["file1", "file2", "file3"]
> i = 0
> max_i = 3
> today = int(raw_input("today's date: "))
> stored_day = 1
> 
> if 3 <= (today - stored_day):
> 	stored_day = today
> 	i += 1
> 	if i > max_i:
> 		i = 0


Perhaps you would want to look up the day and compare to a pickled list object to determine which css file to use.

You might do something like this, which would cycle through the css files, one per day.  You could change the logic to cycle through the files in the manner you desire.

[sloppy code... sorry.  no functions nor classes, just snippets]

# cssSelect.py

css = ["file1.css", "file2.css", "file3.css"]
cssCount=len(css)
cssRepeats=int(366/cssCount)
cssFlags=[]
for n in range(366):
    cssFlags.append('')

for f in range(cssCount):      
    for d in range(f, 366,cssCount):  # this hops through the list, assigning a file index
        cssFlags[d]=f

for day in cssFlags:  #just to show the assignments
    print css[day]

# Pickle the list to a file
import pickle
fname=file('C:\\cssSequence','w')
savedFlags=pickle.Pickler(fname)
savedFlags.dump(cssFlags)
fname.close()

# Unpickle the item back to a list
fname=file('C:\\cssSequence','r')
getFlags=pickle.Unpickler(fname)
cssFlags=getFlags.load()
fname.close()

# use the Julian date to grab the right list element
import time
t=time.localtime()
dayIndex=t[7]-1
cssFile=cssFlags[dayIndex]


HTH,

Eric Pederson




From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 27 17:05:57 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:05:57 -0600
Subject: HTMLPrinter
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.27.22.05.55.384482@hotmail.com>

All my uses of the HTMLParser class in the standard library have involved
modifying HTML in some way and writing it back out.  It would be very
convenient if the standard library had a HTMLPrinter class, defined as
follows:

-------------------------------------------------
import sys
from xml.sax import saxutils
from HTMLParser import HTMLParser

class HTMLPrinter(HTMLParser):
    def __init__(self, outfile=None):
        HTMLParser.__init__(self)
        if outfile is None:
            self.outfile = sys.stdout
        else:
            self.outfile = outfile

    def handle_data(self, data):
        self.outfile.write(saxutils.escape(data))

    def handle_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
        self.outfile.write('<%s' % tag)
        for (name,value) in attrs:
            self.outfile.write(' %s=%s' % (name, saxutils.quoteattr(value)))
        self.outfile.write('>')

    def handle_endtag(self, tag):
        self.outfile.write('</%s>' % tag)

    def handle_charref(self, name):
        self.outfile.write('&#%s;' % name)

    def handle_entityref(self, name):
        self.outfile.write('&%s;' % name)

    # is any quoting needed on comment/decl/pi?

    def handle_comment(self, data):
        self.outfile.write('<!--%s-->' % data)
 
    def handle_decl(self, decl):
        self.outfile.write('<!%s>' % decl)
 
    def handle_pi(self, data):
        self.outfile.write('<?%s>' % data)
 
-------------------------------------------------

Such a class would make HTML munging much easier.
For instance:

class RemoveBreaks(HTMLPrinter):
    def handle_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
        if tag != 'br':
            HTMLPrinter.handle_starttag(self, tag, attrs)
        else:
            HTMLPrinter.handle_data(self, ' ')

    def handle_endtag(self, tag):
        if tag != 'br':
            HTMLPrinter.handle_endtag(self, tag)

The code becomes much clearer since it focuses on the
munging rather than on all the boilerplate HTML printing.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar  5 01:09:27 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:09:27 -0800
Subject: how to write python server page by using mod_python?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E7D@opus.amorhq.net>

wenming_hu wrote:
> i want to set the default page of a site, the same as writing 
> asp or jsp.

Use the DirectoryIndex option to set a default page. See my example
below.

> er, i have a another question, i want to put my site in a separate
> directory, (for example, e:\psp_site), i put the following in apache's
> config:
> 
> <Directory "f:/psp_site/">
> 
>     AddHandler python_program .py
>     PythonHandler main
> 
>     PythonAutoReload On
>     PythonDebug On
> 
> </Directory>
> 
> but to my disappointed, it doesn't work! :-(

Here's a sample .conf section for an app I'm working on. Notice that I
do not use .py files--I think it's silly for the user to know or care
about how we created the page--I use .htm or .html

In the directory D:\htdocs\junct, I have topic.htm, and dispatch.py. The
PythonOption lines are a way for me to pass "global data" into my
program.

----interface.conf----

Alias /junct D:\htdocs\junct

<Directory D:\htdocs\junct>
  AddHandler python-program .htm
  PythonHandler dispatch
  PythonOption namespace junct.namespace
  PythonOption ConfigFiles
C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\junct\default.conf,D:\data\junct\junct.con
f
  PythonDebug On
  
  DirectoryIndex topic.htm
</Directory>

----end interface.conf----


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  8 04:46:30 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:46:30 +0100
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
References: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <vflfllhl.fsf@python.net>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at presidency.com> writes:

> Hi, 
>  I've written some code that takes a N lists of numbers (corresponding to
> axes) and generates a list of grid points (N dimensional grid) for the
> supplied axes. So as an example say my two axes are defined as
>
> v1 = [1,2,3]
> v2 = [1,2,3]
>
> My code will return to me a list of points: 
>
> (1,1), (1,2), (1,3) ....(3,1), (3,2), (3,3)
>
> and so on. For 3 axes, I would obtain 27 points and so on.
> I've included the code below.
[...]
> It seems that this could be formulated as a recursive problem but I
> can't seem to get at it.

Here is a recursive solution using generators:

from __future__ import generators

def _gen_grid(v):
    rest = v[1:]
    if rest:
        for a in v[0]:
            for b in gen_grid(rest):
                yield [a] + b
    else:
        for a in v[0]:
            yield [a]

def gen_grid(v):
    return [x for x in _gen_grid(v)]



v1 = [1, 2]
v2 = [3, 4]
v3 = [5, 6]

print gen_grid((v1, v2, v3))

Thomas




From terry_foo at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 29 22:59:29 2004
From: terry_foo at hotmail.com (TerryFOO)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:59:29 +0800
Subject: New to Python
Message-ID: <4068f03e_1@news.tm.net.my>

Python is a very easy to learn for non-programmers compared with other
languages such as C, C++, Java, and Visual Basic.

During the try out, I've learnt on how to edit programs in text editor or
IDLE, save them to disk and run them once they have been saved.

Also I've learnt the string and regular expression processing, XML support
in Python.




From wallacethinmintr at eircom.net  Fri Mar 19 09:18:18 2004
From: wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell Wallace)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:18:18 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
	<4059deac.74176280@news.eircom.net>
	<105jorolc069r50@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <405b0049.148328857@news.eircom.net>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:58:03 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>Well, two points. First, why does it have to be a "fancy"
>tool? The only editors I use basically have syntax highlighting
>and code folding (at least, I think that's what it's called.)
>There are a lot of other features I'd like to have, but I'm not
>about to spend time with a learning curve that needs a full
>mountaineering outfit to scale.

Well then we're agreed, neither of us uses fancy tools :) (Don't know
what code folding is, but I also like syntax highlighting.)

>Second, what is it about which tools that you don't like?
>Be specific, I'm sure that at least some of the tool vendors
>would like feedback on their pride and joy.

I wouldn't imagine any of them read comp.lang.python, but the main
point is that basic functionality needs to be smooth, fast, 100%
reliable, not needing you to take your hands off the keyboard or
provide more than 2 keystrokes per operation or install third party
libraries or entrust your source code to a binary database, etc etc.
Get hold of Brief (the 1980s-vintage DOS programming editor) and get
to the point where you can do everything it does, not necessarily in
the same way, but just as smoothly and easily. _Then_ worry about
whiz-bang features.

-- 
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Mon Mar 22 09:32:05 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:32:05 -0500
Subject: Graph Problems (was Re: Is there a map or graph module?)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.21.21.35.15.319436@imsb.au.dk>
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
	<c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<75200cbc.0403190755.5765890a@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.03.21.21.35.15.319436@imsb.au.dk>
Message-ID: <405ef89d$0$559$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:55:23 -0800, Lilith wrote:
> 
> Any Python implementation is going to be extremely slow. 

I have found this not to be true.  I have subgraph isomorphism routines 
that run between 4 and 8 time slower than the equivalent C code.  I do 
have some issues with using dictionaries as graphs since this means that 
traversing through them can be quite a bit slower than the equivalent 
list traversal.

By far, the best optimization that I have found is to make a vertex 
object that contains the following items:

self.edges -> the list of edges connected to this vertex
self.adjacentVertices -> the list of vertices adjacent to this vertex

such that
for edge, vertex in zip(vertex.edges, vertex.adjacentVertices):

returns a vertex's edges and corresponding adjacent vertices.  This ends 
up being more memory efficient than using dictionaries as well.  The 
downsides are that editing the graph takes longer.

I regularly use graphs of 10,000+ nodes and 100,000+ edges and use 
scoring functions to find best scoring paths within the graph.  In case 
you are interested, check this out:

http://www.pathblast.org/

Surprisingly, the python implementation ended up being faster than the 
java implementation (even when using a JIT), although this might be a 
red-herring since the java implementation had a lot of extra baggage.

Brian Kelley


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar 11 06:41:24 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:41:24 +0100
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
References: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<40503fab$0$77281$abc4f4c3@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <40505056$0$309$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"Otto Kr?se" <otto_kruse at hotmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
40503fab$0$77281$abc4f4c3 at news.wanadoo.nl...
> How do you access and read the .txt files? Could you give the commands
> you use?

for line in open(myfile, 'r'):
    # process line

BTW there were bugs, times are more about 2 minutes which is acceptable, but
still around 200mb of memory with objects while 170mo with tuples.

i've read posts about caching mecanism to not re-read same line of a file
again and again, or even to cache object to avoid their construction, can
someone point me out to a good tutorial or article on this ?

thx.





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 19:58:08 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:58:08 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> Still trying to understand "=="... It appears as if two equal objects
> can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them:
> 
>   >>> l=[1]
>   >>> s=l
>   >>> l.append(s)
>   >>> w=[1]
>   >>> r=[1,w]
>   >>> w.append(r)
>   >>> s
>   [1, [...]]
>   >>> w
>   [1, [1, [...]]]
>   >>> s==w
>   True

You're creating recursive lists (which is extremely rare in the real
world; I've never seen anyone create a self-referencing list in
real-life code.  Tree structures and even recursive data structures are
one thing, but you're considering a very weird corner case here.

> Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.

That's fine.  1 and 1.0 are printed differently (and even are of
different types) but they're equal.  If you try running through the
element-wise algorithm that Python uses to determine equality of lists,
you'll see that they are in fact equal at this point.  The first element
is 1, the second element is a list whose first element is 1, the second
element of that list is a list whose first element is 1, ad infinitum.

>   >>> s[0]=2
>   >>> w[0]=2
>   >>> s==w
>   False
> 
> All of a sudden they have become unequal.

Because now they really are not equal.  Show them:

>>> s
[2, [...]]
>>> w
[2, [1, [...]]]

The [...] doesn't indicate which sublist is recursively contained, so
you have to dig deeper:

>>> s[1]
[2, [...]]
>>> w[1][1]
[2, [1, [...]]]

So s is

	[2, [2, [2, [2, ...]]]]

but w is

	[2, [1, [2, [1, ...]]]]

Despite both recursing, it's clear that these lists are not element-wise
equal, and so Python is completely right in saying they're not.

Again, though, real-world creation of self-referencing lists is
extremely rare at best.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Here day fights with night.
    -- (the last words of Victor Hugo)


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 11:20:35 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 08:20:35 -0800
Subject: Import config into global space?
References: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>
	<c4dh8i$q5s$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <30260531.0403310820.4d46c8dd@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

[global import from file]

> from config import *

Oh man! I can't believe it was that simple and I didn't think of it!

Actually, I've gone with the config.variable syntax for now anyway, it
actually makes more sense as I don't have to name my variables like
fontsize_config to differentiate them.


From avikghose at yahoo.co.in  Fri Mar 12 03:50:15 2004
From: avikghose at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Avik=20Ghose?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:50:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: How to add pairs to a dict, typo corrected in this one. 
In-Reply-To: <20040312084058.72361.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040312085015.41232.qmail@web8301.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hi Anthony,
 
If you have a dict called phone_book, when you get a new name_value pair say 'tom' you can do.
 
phone_book['tom'] = 33445511;
 
In order to check for duplicates you can do something like
 
if 'tom' in phone_book.keys():
    #duplicate entry;
else:
    #new entry
Hope that helps.
 



Thanks and regards,
Avik Ghose
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more.
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From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Tue Mar 30 17:17:38 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 22:17:38 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406934a9$0$7564$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4069F1FD.601C9079@doe.carleton.ca>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> 
> Fred Ma wrote:
> > I appreciate the sed terseness because
> > I can make a command line pipe stage out of it, but
> > the same brevity in a scripting language can make for
> > rough going.
> 
> Both perl and python will allow you to do this. in perl
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> while(<>) { print uc $_; }
> 
> this script will read from stdin and write an uppercased version of the
> input to stdout and can be used in a pipeline.
> 
> You can to the same in python and of course the guts of the loop can be
> as big or small as you like. There is also a s2p tool that converts sed
> scripts into perl, but rewiting would be a better bet as s2p can produce
> some crufty code.
> 
> To be honest you could just flip a coin and go with that if you have no
> specific requirements.
> 
> Perl may be easier to sell to your boss than python but if you just went
> ahead with it you could use anything.


Hi, Peter,

My boss is my thesis supervisor.  I'm going with Perl and keeping a
tab on Python.  I expect to do most of my  hacking in Perl, since I
see it around everywhere, composing in Python, and one-liners in
Perl/sed.  About invoking Perl as part of a simple command in a
pipeline, I mean that one doesn't even have to write a script for it,
similar to sed

	Command1 | sed -e Expression1 -e Expression2 ... | Command_N

This might also be possible in Python, in which case so much the better. 
I'll find out (or someone might answer in a follow-up post).  Thanks
for your view on the two.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Mar  2 15:10:22 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>
	<4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <uoORAls/Kb0G089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce at news.free.fr>,
"Alex" <alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thank you very much for the reply!
>
>In fact I created a list in a variable and I have to create x numbers of
>butons, depending on how many values there's in the list.
>
>so in my code:
>for x in range(nbSujets):
>  self.button1 = xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30, "B"+str(x) )
>  self.addControl(self.button1)
>
>But in fact I need self.buttonX as I need different actions on each button.
>And the dictionnary here doesn't help I think...
>I may find tricks to cheat, but it would make dirty code or bad results on
>screen...
>
>So any hint to make this work ?

   I've always been puzzled by these schemes.  Sure, you can
do these assignments, if you try hard enough, but then you
also need other source code in your program that's aware of
the new names.  How do you plan to refer to these buttons in
the rest of your program?

   If it were my code it would be

    self.subject_buttons = []
    for x in range (nbSujets):
        b = xbmcgui.ControlButton (50, 100, 40, 30, "B"+str(x) )
        self.addControl (b)
        self.subject_buttons.append (b)

and access a specific button from the list after that.


        Regards.        Mel.


From xu at reflexsecurity.com  Wed Mar 17 16:09:56 2004
From: xu at reflexsecurity.com (J. Xu)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:09:56 -0500
Subject: how to do non-blocking I/O
Message-ID: <c3aend$j1g$1@sea.gmane.org>

I am a newbie to python. I am writing a client application, I need to 
read query results from the server. Mostly I'll have a file object for 
the connection to the server. So I use read() or readline() to get the 
response. But since these are blocking calls, I have to use a seperate 
thread for the input reading. But then I have another problem, my input 
thread running in the following loop

while not quit:
    str = ins.readline()
    .... process the response

so I can't terminate the thread when it's blocking in the readline() 
until the connection is closed. So looks like I need to use non-blocking 
IO such as select() or poll(). But since I need this application to be 
cross-platform, and these are not well supported on Windows, I don't 
know what to do.




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Tue Mar  2 13:34:37 2004
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:34:37 +0100
Subject: read(): 1st argument can't be coerced to byte[]
References: <mailman.23.1078232158.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4044d3bd$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Etienne Antoniutti Di Muro wrote:

> Hi there everybody,
> I want to build a WEB Service client for a test Web Service of mine.
> I am using jython.
> The code is as follow:
> 
> (...)
> 1 response = request.POST() # posts SOAP to the web service  and waits for
> 2                           # response
> 3 instr = response.getInputStream()
> 4 reader = Sax2.Reader()
> 5 doc = reader.fromStream(instr)
> (...)
> 
> Well, at line 5, I get the error:
> 
> read(): 1st argument can't be coerced to byte[]

It seems that the instr argument to reader.fromStream(instr)
needs to be coerced to a java byte array.
You can do that by using the jarray module:
http://www.jython.org/docs/jarray.html

However, that probably conflicts with line 3.
Could you post how to do the same thing in java?

Regards,
Ype



From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar  9 23:15:10 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:15:10 -0500
Subject: Explane File modes please --
In-Reply-To: <433f4c9a.0403091824.2d3ed304@posting.google.com>
References: <433f4c9a.0403091824.2d3ed304@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404E964E.7000105@cfl.rr.com>

What exactly does the underlined text mean. w & a obviously mean you are 
going to update the file.
So what does the + mean on w+ & a+ mean?
Also please could someone explain w+ truncating the file.
I may just be dense so please be patient :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Copy from python 2.3.3 help file]
file( filename [, mode [, bufsize ] ] )

Return a new file object (described earlier under Built-in Types). The 
first two arguments are the same as for stdio's fopen(): filename is the 
file name to be opened, mode indicates how the file is to be opened: 'r' 
for reading, 'w' for writing (truncating an existing file), and 'a' 
opens it for appending (which on some Unix systems means that all writes 
append to the end of the file, regardless of the current seek position).

Modes 'r+', 'w+' and 'a+' open the file for updating (note that 'w+' 
truncates the file). Append 'b' to the mode to open the file in binary 
mode, on systems that differentiate between binary and text files (else 
it is ignored). If the file cannot be opened, IOError is raised.

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From sc0rp at hot.pl  Wed Mar 24 02:34:08 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:34:08 +0100
Subject: CGI with python help newbie
References: <uEa8c.39708$Bg.1320@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <406139F0.F5FF2E79@hot.pl>


Amy G wrote:

> What is needed to get a python script working over my web server.

Try mod_python, it's much faster than CGI:
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/modpython.html

Simple hello world example here:
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/tut-what-it-do.html

Best regards,
Jacek.




From anand at easi.soft.net  Tue Mar 30 09:41:42 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:11:42 +0530
Subject: Python & COM
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>	<mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list@python.org>	<106b6ivetpf0bc0@corp.supernews.com>
	<m2hdw64ecl.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
Message-ID: <40698726.9050702@easi.soft.net>

Hi all,

I have a very primitive question about Python & COM interface.
As of now I have not got any good documentation on using it.
I am planning to buy Python programming on win32 book.
[ It will reach me only after 2 days :-( ]

Could some one please suggest how to add one COM interface which takes 
int array as input.
precisely I want to do following

a=[]
a.append(100)
a.append(200)

from win32com.client import Dispatch


o=Dispatch("MyAppl.com")
o.setIntArray(len(a),a)
I am expecting in my COM interface, I will get VARIENT of SAFEARRAY .

in ATL com implementation,


SAFEARRAY *array=V_ARRAY(a);
long i,val;
for(i=0;i<len;i++){
   SafeArrayGetElement(array,&i,&val)
   c_array[i]= val;
}

I am not getting proper values in C array.
Any suggestions?

Regards,
Anand





From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 12:31:07 2004
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bootstrap Bill)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:31:07 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
Message-ID: <v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>


"Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> wrote in message
news:404675da at news.tce.com...
> Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will tell
> you someplace that it is still in active use.

Radio Shack Level I BASIC?




From video at esfera.cl  Thu Mar 18 11:02:50 2004
From: video at esfera.cl (Cristian Hasbun from Chile)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 08:02:50 -0800
Subject: win32com coclass_interfaces problem
Message-ID: <d4948d36.0403180802.10d29268@posting.google.com>

I need a win32com guru please... 

i'm not python expert, but i understand mi trouble... 

Requirements: 
Hook EyesWeb 3.2.0 (http://www.eyesweb.org) COM Module with Python 
2.0.1 
i used win32com libraries and generate an early binding for module 
(using prog_id) 

the problem is the file generated has a Class EyeswebSystem that is a 
CoClassBaseClass with coclass_interfaces Like IEywApplication that is 
a DispatchBaseClass... 

after reading other post with similar problem i saw that the other 
problems are about coclass_interfaces with objects DispatchBaseClass 
only... 

i try 

""" 
import win32com.client 
Eyes=win32com.client.Dispatch('Eyesweb.Remotesystem') 
App=win32com.client.Dispatch(Eyes,resultCLSID='{clsid}') 
""" 

an have more accurate result 

""" 
>>> Eyes 
<COMObject Eyesweb.Remotesystem> 
>>> App 
<win32com.gen_py.EyesWeb System.IEywApplication instance at 
0x19740672> 
""" 

but i can't reach "EyesWeb System.IEywApplication.Methods()" yet 

with diferents try and error, i get com_errors like: 
'the server threw an exception' 
'invalid access to memory location' 

here is a link of my gen_py generated file, easy for understand class 
structure of the module with a browse class 

http://www.kitesurf.cl/flash/0971C42C-F8CA-45F1-BC6B-A55F23EE2A40x0x1x0.py 

Sorry my English... Mark Hammond if are you out there give me some 
light


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 30 16:34:35 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:34:35 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
	<c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<40698148.40907@spam.trap.kbcfp.com>
Message-ID: <4069E7EB.F54E7129@alcyone.com>

Vrai Stacey wrote:

> JCM wrote:
>
> > a = b = c
> > a = b == c
> 
> I had no idea you could do that! I was under the impression that
> assignment didn't return a value in Python, hence it being impossible
> to
> use one as a conditional.

Assignment can't, and that isn't one, but the assignment statement is
defined such that you can change assignments together with no problems.

So in

	a = b = c

c is the expression evaluated, which is assigned to both a and b,
whereas in

	a = b == c

b == c is the exression assigned to a.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ But you're not going to be there tomorrow. And it's all about
    tomorrow. -- Montgomery Brogan


From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Tue Mar 16 17:42:03 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:42:03 GMT
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ct05c.10019$V26.2708@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<mq15c.16863$fg7.5619@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <27f6f6761e37bddd13e1e5be47eafcd9@news.teranews.com>

On several occasions in the past, Aahz wrote:
A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:23:14 GMT, "kbass" <kbass at midsouth.rr.com>
wrote:
>"DilbertFan" <steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ct05c.10019$V26.2708 at newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
>> Do what you love and the money will follow. It works.   Don't worry about
>> jobs.
>> Read something on metaphysics that talks about how abundance flows to you
>> when you simply engage in something that is fun and allows the kid in you,
>> or the Spirit in you, or whatever, to play and to create great stuff.
>>
>> If you give yourself to other through your talent,  (and the more you enjoy
>> what you're doing, the more value you're giving to everyone who makes use of
>> your creation), the more value comes right back to you.
>> If you don't like the spiritual angle here, than read Quantum Physics about
>> how we create our reality through intentions and thoughts, like The
>> Holographic Universe by Talbot.  If you're 'buzzing' through the joy of
>> engaging in your passion, you may naturally attract abundance by other
>> completely unrelated means if doesn't come through programming, or it may
>> come directly from this area.
>>
>> Closer to home, read what Bruce Eckel wrote about Doing what you love:
>> http://mindview.net/WebLog/log-0037
>>
>
>Strangely enough, I have taken on that philosophy in my life and it had lead
>me to the love of doing database architecture and development as a career.
>:)  Using Python or any other programming language would assist me in my
>continued endeavor.

Not so strange.  I would think that doing anything other than that
would be strange.
    --dang


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  9 04:54:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:54:37 +0100
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2k48t$1r0$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Oliver Kurz wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list without
> using eval or exec?
> 
> The string looks like:

[Python list containing nested lists and strings]

import compiler
import compiler.ast as ast

sample = '''[["abc1","abc2",["abc3","abc4"],"abc5"],
             ["abc6","abc7",["abc8","abc9"],
            ["abcA",["abcB","abcC"]],"abcD"],"abcE",
              1, 2.0, 3j]'''

node = compiler.parse(sample)
while not isinstance(node, ast.List):
    node = node.getChildNodes()[0]

def makeList(node):
    assert isinstance(node, ast.List)
    result = []
    for child in node.getChildNodes():
        try:
            result.append(child.value)
        except AttributeError:
            result.append(makeList(child))
    return result

assert makeList(node) == eval(sample)
print makeList(node)

Peter


From dj00302003 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 13:15:42 2004
From: dj00302003 at yahoo.com (Jay Davis)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 10:15:42 -0800
Subject: Automatic web form transactions
References: <1d17eeb7.0403031204.466e4ca@posting.google.com>
	<5uOdnVbEF6CuzdvdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1d17eeb7.0403041015.44a651a5@posting.google.com>

DH <no at sp.am> wrote in message news:<5uOdnVbEF6CuzdvdRVn-uQ at comcast.com>...

> 
> The web form script (additem.php) might be checking the referrer.
> Set the http request referrer header to a URL the the URL of the webform.
> 
> See if something like this works:
> request = form.click()
> request.add_header("Referrer", "url of the form")
> response = urlopen(request)

Yep that was it.  (But replace('Referrer','Referer').)

Thanks!


From python at quixs.com  Wed Mar 31 09:00:33 2004
From: python at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:00:33 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <983275464.20040331154409@quixs.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
	<983275464.20040331154409@quixs.com>
Message-ID: <14510489641.20040331160033@quixs.com>


> If someone is interested in Mozilla as platform, than the following
> sources might be helpful:

... and of course:
"Creating Applications with Mozilla"
http://books.mozdev.org/chapters/index.html

Best regards,
Lars




From nospam at nopes  Thu Mar 11 03:57:14 2004
From: nospam at nopes (Steve)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:57:14 +1100
Subject: popen from inside a thread not working!
Message-ID: <40502a75@clarion.carno.net.au>

Hi,

I have a couple of threads running in my program and I tried to do the 
following from one thread:

out = os.popen("su -l postgres -c \"psql -c 'VACUUM ANALYZE table1' -d 
my_db\"")

This gives me the following error:

standard in must be a tty


No matter what I do, it doesn't work. I tried os.system(), os.popen2() 
etc but nothing works. Please tell me what to do! I also tried writing a 
small shell script and then calling that script from popen() but I still 
get the same error. If I try this from the main program, i.e the point 
at which I create run the threads, it works! I want the threads to be 
doing this and not the main script so please help. Thanks,


Steve



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 22:25:17 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <c2e37t$1rsg2r$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040307032517.50718.qmail@web13002.mail.yahoo.com>

Then how do you know when to stop?  Another question
is what if I will have the code read Chinese
characters which usually have two bytes each?

> Question: How do I read sentence by sentence?
> Answer: Read input stream char by char.
> 
> -- 
> William Park, Open Geometry Consulting,
> <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> Linux solution for data processing and document
> management.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Mar  5 16:55:39 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:55:39 +0100
Subject: How to find size of file?
In-Reply-To: <c2ai0g$1t4u$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<c2ai0g$1t4u$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <4048f75c$0$571$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Yermat wrote:


> def sizeOf(f):
>     f.seek(0,2)
>     return f.tell()
> 

Hm. For better performance (and readability) try os.path.getsize(filename).....

--Irmen


From dj00302003 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 20:21:57 2004
From: dj00302003 at yahoo.com (Jay Davis)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 17:21:57 -0800
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
Message-ID: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>

I use xemacs and syntax highlighting for my IDE, but I'm not a big
fan of the default syntax highlighting colors.  For instance,
in 'def fun():' both 'def' and 'fun' are the same color.  I kind of
like the vim colors, but what would be really useful is to find
various examples of highlighting that people have used, to see
which ones just look right.  I looked through google groups but
didn't find any source of highlighting examples.  Is there such a
resource?


From raja0576 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 00:28:40 2004
From: raja0576 at yahoo.com (Raja)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 21:28:40 -0800
Subject: F_GETLK Working?
Message-ID: <1a26ae5d.0403162128.4f47bee2@posting.google.com>

**Newbie Alert**

I was trying to check for a lock on a file that i had acquired
earlier. If i try and reacquire the lock, it throws a exception saying
resource temporarily unavailable. But i though F_GETLK should be the
better way to check for existance of a lock.
This is how my code looks
lock_file = file('lockedfile', 'w')
fcntl.fcntl(lock_file, fcntl.F_SETFD, fcntl.FD_CLOEXEC)
flk=struct.pack('hhllhl',fcntl.F_WRLCK,0,0,0,0,0)
try:
    rv = fcntl.fcntl(lock_file, fcntl.F_GETLK, flk)
except IOError:
    print "Error getting lockstatus"
    raise
locked,a,b,c,d,e= struct.unpack('hhllhl', flk);
print locked

I was expecting the first argument of the flk(unpacked) to contain
F_UNLCK (as per
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/guide/ipc/flock.html - Section on
F_GETLK) but i get the same value that i pass in i.e. if i pass in
F_WRLCK i get back a F_WRLCK. Am i doing something wrong?

What is the best way to check for the existance of a lock?

Thanks a lot
Raja


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar 15 18:55:18 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:55:18 -0600
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <20040315235518.GB13552@unpythonic.net>

You have two options.  First, convert the string to Unicode and use code
like the following:

    replacements = [(u'\xe9', 'e'), ...]
    def remove_accents(u):
        for a, b in replacements:
            u = u.replace(a, b)
        return u

>>> remove_accents(u'\xe9')
u'e'

Second, if you are using a single-byte encoding (iso8859-1, for
instance), then work with byte string:
    replacement_map = string.maketrans('\xe9...', 'e...')
    def remove_accents(s):
        return s.translate(replacement_map)

>>> remove_accents('\xe9')
'e'

If you want to have strings like u'?' in your programs, you have to
include a line at the top of the source file that tells Python the
encoding, like the following line does:
    # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
(except you have to name the encoding your editor uses, if it's not
utf-8) See http://python.org/peps/pep-0263.html

Once you've done that, you can write
    replacements = [(u'?', 'e'), ...]
instead of using the \xXX escape for it.
    
Jeff



From nelso513 at cts.umn.edu  Tue Mar 23 13:33:43 2004
From: nelso513 at cts.umn.edu (Peter Nelson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:33:43 -0600
Subject: newbie question: data structure for book indexing
Message-ID: <c3pvu7$mgf$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>

I'm an editor without much programming experience.

What I want to do is write an application in Python to facilitate manual 
indexing of books -- i.e. cardfile-type indexing by professional 
indexers, not machine indexing.

Indexing apps I've worked with in the past basically replicate the 
indexer's 3x5 index card file -- you add one entry at a time, then 
"compile" the index when you're done.

What would be the best way to store and access this data? I'm thinking 
that using a bsddb recno database might be simplest. But because the 
index itself is ultimately a (very) sorted structure, would it make 
sense to try storing the data in BTree format?

Would it make sense to design a Python class IndexEntry to mimic the 
functionality of index cards, then store this in a db via shelve?

Any suggestions on where to get more info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
PN



From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  1 20:32:26 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:32:26 +1300
Subject: wxWindows changes name
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0402251653.66ab16a9@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnc3lhvi.19b.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<480m30hd68ncg81if70n81h8tict03oda3@4ax.com>
	<wzy8qsfqe6.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.62.1077653810.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<wzwu6b4b0k.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<38ec68a6.0402251653.66ab16a9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c20o7c$1n2bia$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Asun Friere wrote:
> The fear of genericity explains why Xerox
> launched a big campaign to introduce the word 'photocopying' (instead
> of 'xeroxing')

Aha! So we should all start using the term "windowing" to
mean the act of using a computer (of any brand) with a GUI,
and promote the use of this term at every chance we get...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From http  Mon Mar  1 17:03:13 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 14:03:13 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<c20abc$dbm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xllmkrzry.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> Not quite fair.  The Python version does long-integer
> (infinite-precision) math when i is greater than 65534 on a 32 bit
> processor. 

Why is that unfair?  It's showing a difference between Fortran and
Python, that Fortran supports 64-bit integers, while Python has to
resort to longs.

> Furthermore, you allow fortran to optimize the loop, but you don't
> optimize the python loop yourself, using those portions built-in that
> are known to be fast.

Nothing stops Python from optimizing the loop.  It just doesn't do so.
Again, it's an implementation vs implementation comparison, with
Fortran winning.


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Mar 17 11:03:32 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:03:32 -0500
Subject: Compare recursively objects
In-Reply-To: <na_5c.5$1r6.1@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <LcZ5c.6697$kc2.157952@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<na_5c.5$1r6.1@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <gF_5c.6730$kc2.158843@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Do you know if the use of pickle would work?  If I dump two objects and 
compare the files, do I have the assurance that the files are the same 
if the recursive members are the same?

Regards,
Nicolas


From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Sat Mar 13 08:23:35 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:23:35 +1300
Subject: ANN: pyshaper - for easy traffic-shaping
Message-ID: <40530B57.5080505@rebirthing.co.nz>

Hi,

I've released an alpha of 'pyshaper' - a python prog which makes 
traffic-shaping (bandwidth allocation/management) a snap.

Requires python2.2 or later, a 2.4 or later Linux kernel with some QoS 
options compiled in, the iproute2 suite (available on all proper linux 
distros) and optionally GeoIP as well.

pyshaper periodically netstats the current TCP connections, matches them 
against your rules, and dynamically calculates/generates/executes 'tc' 
commands in the background to control both inbound and outbound traffic 
to your general requirements.

Configuration file syntax is very simple, and eliminates 98% of the pain 
one would have to go through if hand-writing 'tc' scripts. In fact, you 
don't need to know tc at all to use it.

In the pyshaper config file, you provide simple python expressions for 
matching connections against criteria such as:
  - local/remote host/port
  - local program on the local end of the connection, the username under
    which it is running, and its invocation arguments (and its pid)
  - country in which remote host resides

With this flexibility, it is possible to detect and traffic-shape 
programs which are otherwise hard to police (eg certain p2p apps which 
talk on different ports), and for which there are no adequate 
protocol-detecting shaper plugins available.

Intended usage of pyshaper is home systems/networks, where bandwidth is 
limited, traffic consumption is a concern (eg internet connections with 
strict traffic caps), and where there is a desire to have potentially 
bandwidth-guzzling programs (eg p2p apps like Freenet) running 24/7), 
and where one wants to guarantee good bandwidth for critical 
communications (eg web/mail server).

GPL (of course)

Info and downloads at http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyshaper

Caveats:
  - it's in alpha - only tested on Debian sid with kernel 2.6.4
  - worst-case scenario - no system damage, but possible bugs might
    cause it to not work as well as desired.

Enjoy!

-- 

Kind regards
David

--

leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter



From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Wed Mar 24 00:24:53 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:24:53 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <mailman.312.1080094713.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CJGdnSlYVfE7hvzdRVn-gQ@speedfactory.net>


"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.312.1080094713.742.python-list at python.org...
> [Michael A. Covington]
> > On the trail of figuring out why IDLE won't launch, look at this:
> >
> > Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> > on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import Tkinter
> > >>> Tkinter._test()
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 3640, in _test
> >     root = Tk()
> >   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
> >     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
> > _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
> > directories:
> >     {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.4
> > C:/Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library
> > This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> > >>>
> >
> > Here \WN16 is where *another* TCL/TK application *used* to reside.
> > And the TCL stuff definitely *does* exist under
> > C:\Python23\tcl\tcl8.4 (not lib\tcl8.4).
> >
> > By default does Python 2.3.3 install itself incorrectly???!!
>
> No, it means Python is a good citizen but WN16 was a criminal <wink>.
>
> Installing Python won't interfere with any other Tcl/Tk-using app on your
> system, because Python is polite and considerate.
>
> WN16 probably set an environment variable, or more than one, forcing every
> Tcl/Tk on the box to use the old version WN16 installed.  That's
anti-social
> of it, but not Python's doing.  Do "set | sort" from a DOS box, and look
for
> envars with names starting with TCL or TK.  I'm betting you'll find at
least
> one, pointing to a directory under C:\WIN16.  If you do, get rid of it,
and
> then Tkinter should work fine.
>

Thanks.  Sure enough, it did.  I'll zap 'em.





From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 01:43:36 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: marshalling python data structures in php
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0403292243.2d5d3997@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have written in network project in python.  the client sends a
dictionary by pickling it over the socket and the server unpickles it.
 I also need a webclient for this.  So I am wondering how to create
python dictionary in PHP and pickle it and send it to the server
running in python.

any thoughts?


From kingd  Wed Mar  3 18:38:53 2004
From: kingd (Dale King)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:38:53 -0500
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <404675da@news.tce.com>

"Matthias Felleisen" <matthias at ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message
news:c24nh3$9it$1 at camelot.ccs.neu.edu...
> nobody wrote:
>
> Lisp has been declared dead for the past N years. Unlike Algol, Simula 67,
PL/I,
> Pascal, ... and many more languages that came and went, it is still alife
and
> kicking.

I really am not getting into the debate over lisp, but the notion that those
other languages are dead is not correct. I'm not sure there is a successful
language invented that has ever truly died. Interest in Simula for example
keeps growing. There is an annual conference for Simula and the attendance
grows every year.

I would bet that there is somebody somewhere still programming in ENIAC
assembly language.

Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will tell
you someplace that it is still in active use.

--
  Dale King




From http  Thu Mar  4 11:13:44 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 08:13:44 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<mailman.39.1078245647.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<4045a616.8831515@news.t-online.de>
	<7xishlsoqt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<671915071dfc62e81dd9619b0ffef82d@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <7xznaw4mkn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> writes:
> statements/keywords don't have attributes or types.  

Well true, that's why we're talking about language changes.  ;-)


From bob at redivi.com  Thu Mar  4 18:51:58 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:51:58 -0500
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<m3smgoz9h5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2004030418515816807%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-04 14:40:55 -0500, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> said:

> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> 
>> As far as I am concerned, 2 and 3 are so whats.  1 would be nice at
>> times, but there's no way it's going to happen in a language that
>> doesn't have static typing.
> 
> Well, it's called multiple dispatch.  Could be done, but it's quite a
> paradigm shift.

I've seen quite a few implementations of multiple dispatch in Python, 
based on types, tests, or adaptations/interfaces... but obviously none 
of them can be represented in the function signature [yet, ...]

-bob



From p at trick.lu  Wed Mar 17 14:37:37 2004
From: p at trick.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:37:37 +0100
Subject: how best to iterate i times ?
References: <Yl16c.298$1r6.18@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <t6ah5096vmtb9le6fnfj04qhploesan55a@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:07:36 GMT, Randall Smith <randall at tnr.cc> wrote:

>In the case I know how may times I want to iterate, one way to do it is 
>like this:
>
>for i in range(100000):
>	dothis()
>

I believe that xrange does the same without using much memory.
--
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/


From adam_gautier at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 11:57:00 2004
From: adam_gautier at yahoo.com (Adam T. Gautier)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:57:00 -0500
Subject: Creating Python Modules
Message-ID: <40630F5C.4030609@yahoo.com>

Greetings,

I am trying to create a python module for a series of class files that 
because of their size I have divided into multiple files.

class Foo --> foo.py
class Boo --> boo.py

I have created a setup.py where I have for the "py_modules=['foo', 
'boo']".  when I run "%>./setup.py install" it copies all *.py and *.pyc 
to /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages.

When I goto use the module I have to use:

import foo
import boo

I would like if anyone could help me to be able to:
1.)  Get the *.py and *.pyc (foo and boo) generated with the install to 
install to "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mymodule". 
2.) When using the module be able to use just one import and get source 
code like:

import mymodule

foo = Foo()
boo = Boo()

I have read the tutorial docs on this and it has brought me to where I 
am now but I have about 35 files/classes.  I think that I need to define 
a mymodule.py file and put an __init__()? method into it I am just not 
sure what to do, so any help would be appreciated.




From qp at al.net  Wed Mar 31 20:37:49 2004
From: qp at al.net (Qp)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:37:49 -0500
Subject: How to connect multiple class instances to 1 Twisted factory?
References: <TWJac.6124$Hs1.3165@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <MnKac.6385$Hs1.4251@fe03.usenetserver.com>

I guess I should say that I am using Tkinter to design my GUIs, and using
the specialized Twisted support code to setup the reactor.

"Qp" <qp at al.net> wrote in message
news:TWJac.6124$Hs1.3165 at fe03.usenetserver.com...
> Is this even possible?  I'm designing a simple chat and game client/server
> as an intro to Python, and it would be nice to represent the different
> interfaces (public chat room, private chat rooms, game instances) as
totally
> seperate classes and show them in totally seperate windows.
>
> Given my basic understanding of Twisted, I see no way of doing this, and
my
> whole GUI is contained in one class.  The project is doable this way, it
> would just be much better with multiple class and multiple window
> seperation.
>
> If anyone can give me any direction, I would appreciate it very much.
>
> Thanks,
> Qp
>
>
>





From rwest004 at opti.cgi.net  Wed Mar 10 00:45:30 2004
From: rwest004 at opti.cgi.net (Richard West)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:45:30 -0600
Subject: Unicode and rdf
References: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ppat40p1pl4136erpieug0el9lp4tqfrek@4ax.com>


Almost forgot.  I'm running Python 2.3.3.


On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:41:30 -0600, Richard West
<rwest004 at opti.cgi.net> wrote:

>
>
>I'm trying to parse the rdf dumps from dmoz.org (Open Directory
>Project) and am having great difficulty just getting Python to read
>the files.  The files are RDF in UTF-8 encoding according to the
>dmoz.org web site, but I get the following error:
>
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
>52376-52378: invalid data
>
>Here's a sample of code that will reproduce the problem:
>
>
>import sys
>import codecs
>from xml.sax import make_parser, handler
>
>def main():
>    f = codecs.open(sys.argv[1], 'r', 'utf-8')
>    parser = make_parser()
>    parser.setContentHandler(dmoz())
>    parser.parse(f)
>
>class dmoz(handler.ContentHandler):
>    def startElement(self, name, attrs):
>        print('%s' % name)
>
>if(__name__=='__main__'):
>    main()
>
>
>I'm working with the dump from February 23rd, 2004.  On the dmoz.org
>web site news pertaining to the rdf dumps, there is an entry from
>March 3rd, 2003 which states that they are filtering the data to
>"prevent UTF-8 and XML character encoding problems".  So I am assuming
>that the UTF-8 files I have are valid.  I run into the problem with
>both the structure.rdf.u8 file and the content.rdf.u8 file.
>
>What am I doing wrong?
>
>
>-Richard
>
>
>dmoz.org rdf dumps: http://rdf.dmoz.org/
>
>dmoz.org rdf news: http://rdf.dmoz.org/rdf/Changes.html
>
>



From erick_bodine at comcast.net  Tue Mar  9 14:41:37 2004
From: erick_bodine at comcast.net (Erick Bodine)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 11:41:37 -0800
Subject: logging messages in imported modules not showing up
Message-ID: <8de75d53.0403091141.e488ec@posting.google.com>

I have a script that sets up logging at startup, imports a module
(module1) which itself imports another module (module2).

The problem is that if I run script.py, I see the following.  I never
see the 'MyClass2 initialized' log message from module2??

2004-03-09 12:15:18,348 DEBUG [script:15] logging enabled
2004-03-09 12:15:18,348 DEBUG [module1:12] MyClass initialized
2004-03-09 12:15:18,348 DEBUG [module2:14] MyClass2 do_something

--------------
script.py
-------------
import logging, module1

def main():
    # setup logging
    log = logging.getLogger('myapp')
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    format = logging.Formatter("%(asctime)s %(levelname)-3s " \
                                "[%(module)s:%(lineno)d] %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(format)
    log.addHandler(handler)
    
    log.debug("logging enabled")

    my = module1.MyClass()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

--------------
module1.py
--------------
import logging, module2
log = logging.getLogger('myapp')

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self):
        log.debug("MyClass initialized")
    
    def something(self):
        my = module2.MyClass2()
        my.do_something()

-------------
module2.py
-------------
import logging
log = logging.getLogger('myapp')
class MyClass2:
    def __init__(self):
        log.debug("MyClass2 initialized")

    def do_something(self):
        log.debug("In MyClass2 do_something")


From mb at muenster.de  Thu Mar  4 15:53:08 2004
From: mb at muenster.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:53:08 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
	<2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
	<c27ivn$3ao$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <404795ce.683812@news.muenster.de>

[Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net>]

>instance of file. All he has to do is close the predefined stdout
>and open it again:
>
>sys.stdout.close()
>sys.stdout = MultiArgWriteFile('/dev/tty', 'a')

Telepathy? You already answered part of what I was just going to ask!

And then: Is it possible to reopen sys.stdout if the platform ist not
Unix-like?



From ark at acm.org  Wed Mar 17 12:04:42 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:04:42 GMT
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Ky%5c.26184$Pa7.671188@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:4057B2A4.F9EC49DD at alcyone.com...

> Do you have an example of this that doesn't involve comparisons between
> different types?

Do long and float count as different types?




From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar 13 12:57:45 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:57:45 -0800
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EE0@opus.amorhq.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> 
> > Now that I'm back to Python and all the new (to me) cool features,
> > I find I'm using properties a lot, i.e. I'm defining:
> > 
> > foo = property(fset=..., fget=...)
> > 
> > for a number of properties, in many of my classes. I'm not using
> > them for anything performance critical yet, but could see myself
> > doing so in the future. Can anyone comment on the performance
> > costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?
> 
> It seems I'm becoming obsessed with timeit.py :-)

ISTR Alex Martelli went through such a phase.. ;)

> <property.py>
> class Test(object):
>     def getvalue(self):
>         return self._value
>     value = property(getvalue)
> 
> t = Test()
> t._value = 123
> </property.py>
> 
> $ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t._value"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.207 usec per loop
> $ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t.getvalue()"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.918 usec per loop
> $ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t.value"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.03 usec per loop
> 
> Roughly factor five, most of the time being consumed by the 
> implied function call.

I've always used "property" as sugar for when I would otherwise have
overriden __getattr(ibute)__, in which case the performance is not that
different.


FuManChu



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar  4 06:27:42 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 06:27:42 -0500
Subject: Speed of attribute lookup (was Re: advice on programming style:
	is multiple inheritance bad?)
References: <bvjhkv$ss4$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<101sphfjk91p42d@news.supernews.com>
	<c13mpp$9ic$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<103c0jdd33bhc3a@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c273re$iu3$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <103c0jdd33bhc3a at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
>news:c13mpp$9ic$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>> In article <101sphfjk91p42d at news.supernews.com>,
>> John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>>>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
>>>news:bvkh00$38r$1 at panix1.panix.com...
>>>>
>>>> The problem with attribute lookup in new-style classes is that any
>>>> instance attribute could be a property.  So if Python finds an attribute
>>>> on the instance, it needs to traverse the MRO to check if there's a
>>>> property.  If there isn't one, that's an expensive waste.
>>>
>>>I thought about that when new style classes came out, and managed
>>>to convince myself that it couldn't happen, at least with data
>>>properties. Unless trying to set the *same* attribute from the setter
>>>invoked from the property actually works? That seems like a lot of work
>>>to make it function poorly.
>>
>> I'm not understanding your question.
>
>In order to determine if something is a property, you have to scan
>the MRO to find a descriptor. Correct? The only real problem case
>here is if the instance has an attribute that is named the same as the
>descriptor. My understanding is that this wasn't allowed, thus
>eliminating the necessity of scanning the MRO when the attribute
>was sitting right there in front of one.
>
>Now if the original discussion was about speeding up the descriptor
>search in the general case, then I misunderstood the issue.

Unfortunately, because one can assign to <object>.__dict__, there's no
way of preventing the existance of an object attribute.  (Was going to
write more, but don't have time.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From mark at prothon.org  Sun Mar 28 15:16:44 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:16:44 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MoG9c.49478$cx5.24632@fed1read04>

> although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed from Ruby

I will fix that.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"Peter Hickman" <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message
news:40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk...
> Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like'
> language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
>
> Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what
> makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define
> scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed
> from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.




From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Fri Mar  5 23:55:27 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:55:27 -0500
Subject: import vs from module import : any performance issue?
Message-ID: <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238@news20.bellglobal.com>

Q1:
I'v seen mentionned in some post that there could be performance issues 
of using:

	from moduleX import whatever

as opposed to:

	import moduleX

What would be the performance issues?

Q2:
What happens when names from moduleX are imported using the first former 
syntax in some modules of an application and imported using the latter 
syntax in other modules of the same application?

Q3:
It's my understanding that using the "from moduleX import whatever" 
syntax in moduleA, all of moduleX code will run and only the name 
"whatever" will be made available to moduleA.  What are the benefit of 
using this syntax then, is it only the fact that you don't have to type 
the "moduleX." prefix in moduleA?


Thanks

Pierre



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 24 07:41:03 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:41:03 +1100
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <20040324124103.GA23307@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 11:45:05AM +0200, Ville Vainio wrote:
> >>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:
> 
>     Andrew> But the decorator syntax doesn't help with this case at
>     Andrew> all.
> 
>     Andrew> You *could* hack up multimethods today, though, by abusing
>     Andrew> metaclasses:
> 
> Hmm? I would have figured that once you are able to associate
> parameter types with a function name and a concrete callable the gets
> called, you can implement multimethods.
> 
> The wrapper would essentially
> 
> 1. Look up the function name N from func_name
> 
> 2. Insert the mapping of parameter types to the callable in the
>    data structure that holds the mappings for multimethod N
> 
> 3. Return the dispatcher object that remembers it's a dispatcher for
>    multimethod N, so, when called, it can search the data structure
>    for its own multimethod for the concrete callable to invoke with
>    the parameters.

Decorators don't add any new capabilities to python, just a more convenient
spelling for existing features.

So, your proposal would work equally well (functionally, anyway, just not
look as nice) like this:

class C:
    def foo(self, other):
        ...
    foo = multimethod(Matrix, Matrix)(foo)

    def foo(self, other):
        ...
    foo = multimethod(Matrix, Vector)(foo)

Which is to say, I don't understand how that can work -- the first
definition of foo gets clobbered.

You *could* have a global registry that's keyed off func_name, as you
suggest, but that doesn't work in general... what if I later have:

class C2:
    def foo(self, other):
        ...
    foo = multimethod(Long, String)(foo)

How is the registry not going to help distinguish between the foo methods
from C, and the foo methods from C2? 

> This would obviously be used for CLOS-style multimethods, i.e. the
> concrete methods would be plain functions. This wouldn't work for
> operator overloading, for example, unless all the dispatcable classes
> did a:
> 
> class C:
>     def __mul__(self, other):
>         return mm_multiply(self,other)

I don't understand why __mul__ is any different to foo here.

> Again, I might be overlooking something, but I haven't yet figured out
> what :).

I might be missing something too, but I don't yet see what :)

-Andrew.




From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Mar 27 22:56:11 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:56:11 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6chh8.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <106ceeeqc8ph126 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
> exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
> not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
> open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.

Hmm, I bet an optimizing compiler could take care of that for statically
linked programs, although you'd still need to put all the objects in the
libraries just in case some user wants to instantiate them.  (Although
an explicit export list could help the compiler out there.)

Joe


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 03:41:11 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:41:11 -0800
Subject: asyncore deficiencies
In-Reply-To: <99dce321.0403281816.4df96025@posting.google.com>
References: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>
	<c46607$cgk$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<99dce321.0403281816.4df96025@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c48nl9$smj$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I would expect such things to be provided by modules that are
> dependant on asyncore, eg. as asynchat is. It's beyond the scope of
> what asyncore tries to do.

Then what exactly would you like to see in asyncore2?


> I don't need a private map, however given that the other option was a
> module variable, I naturally chose to provide my own to increase any
> required future flexibility. Indeed there is little, if anything to be
> gained from using your own map, but the option was there.


You don't even need to offer a variable to the loop construct.  By 
default, it will use asyncore.map, regardless of where your dispatchers 
are defined.


> The poll function is not documented in the manual, nor do any
> docstrings suggest it is a public interface. Internally asyncore
> chooses which of poll, poll2, or poll3 to use inside loop, so calling
> these directly also bypasses some of asyncore's OS-independance
> functionality.

Seemingly asyncore should do a quick test to see which are available, 
and based on some metrics, automatically select the proper function on 
module import and call it poll_once(), which would be poll, poll2 or 
poll3, based on what the system had available.

It could optionally have a check_again function that should be called 
occasionally, which will, on platforms with more than one select/poll 
available, rebind poll_once based on which would be faster given the 
current size of the socket map.


>>I've never used asyncore with UDP sockets, but maybe using 
>>"handle_connect = handle_read" in your subclass definition could be 
>>sufficient.
> 
> I see this as a workaround, and as such I think the point still
> stands. :)

I suppose it would be a relatively minor patch to check what kind of 
socket it is on initialization, making "handle_connect = handle_read" 
automatic.


>>That is exactly why polling is optional.  Select is available on every 
>>platform, but poll is faster on platforms that support it...
> 
> That is not true at all. If you are feeling investigative, quite a
> complete starting point would be <http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html>.
> There is lots of information there regarding various OS
> implementations async IO performance using poll, epoll, select, aio_*,
> etc.

Well...select is available on linux, windows, solaris (I've used it on 
all three).  I would be surprised if it was not available on all of the 
BSDs, would anyone know for certain?


> That's a good point, but I don't have a problem restarting the poll
> after handling an exception, a) because it shouldn't happen very
> often, b) will probably mean shutting down the service rather than
> trying to continue, and c) exceptions are generally expensive special
> cases anyway.

Socket-exceptions usually mean that a connection has died.  That kind of 
thing can be relatively common.  Depending on your application, setting 
up a callback for your dispatcher instance to notify any controller (if 
necessary) should be relatively easy.


> If an exception is propogating up from the dispatcher, that means the
> dispatcher's method did not handle the exception, which should mean it
> gets passed back up the stack as it does with all other code,
> eventually ending up with a traceback print if it wasn't handled.

Unless of course you want your server/client to stay up under all socket 
circumstances.  Rarely, if ever, do you want your server or client to 
crash when exceptions are raised.  Certainly such behavior can be useful 
when you are initially writing your socket app, but as soon as the thing 
becomes live, likely the last thing you want is for it to crash.


> I dislike the handle_error method since it is essentially redundant in
> the face of Python's own exception handling mechanism. If a dispatcher
> wants it's own function to handle exceptions, it should wrap it's
> methods in a try block.

I believe they had it call handle_error because then you can write 
servers like the following...

#dispatcher subclasses

mydispatcher(listen=('', 9876))
asyncore.loop()

This also allows your various clients and servers to handle exceptions 
differently, and for the exception handling to be implemented in the 
thing that may be raising the exceptions.


> I assume handle_error was provided to allow graceful teardown of a
> dispatcher that was erroneous, but it isn't granular enough to be
> useful for tearing down complicated objects, given an exception that
> could have been generated anywhere in a couple of screenfuls worth of
> code, and an object that could be in any state.

If you do some inspection of the exception (check out the traceback 
module), you can usually find out where an error occurred, and exactly 
what kind of exception it was.


>>>- Decoupling from socket objects: removal of the __getitem__ magic
>>>which causes screenfuls of abuse for a simple typo at the wrong stage
>>>in execution.
>>
>>Infinite recursion in asyncore?  Yikes, I've not hit that bug before. 
>>Care to post some offending code?
> 
> 
> It was entirely my fault, but here is the example anyway. :)

With a bit of 'fancy' stack introspection, that infinite recursion error 
could be easily fixed.  Of course it would end up slowing down attribute 
lookups.

I bet there is a quick fix (without introspection), but I'm too tired to 
figure it out now, and I have jury duty in 9 hours.  Maybe tomorrow evening.


>>One could even have a framework for registering even handlers...yikes, 
>>this is starting to sound like wxPython.  I don't know if that is a good 
>>idea or not.
> 
>     NAME  asyncore
>     Basic infrastructure for asynchronous socket service clients and
> servers.
> 
> I think that answers the question.

Good point, it is a bad idea.


> Is anyone else interested in this? I have already made small
> modifications to the asyncore module to fix a few things, but nothing
> mentioned here. I could put together a proposed asyncore2 module if
> there was interest. I may do it, out of need, anyway. :)

Feel free to post your changes in some sort of public place (on the web 
is probably best).  If people want/need it, they'll probably tell you. 
With enough support, asyncore could get patched or asyncore2 could be born.

  - Josiah




From mederis at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  2 11:04:46 2004
From: mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 08:04:46 -0800
Subject: py2exe odbc:cannot import dbi module
Message-ID: <f00811ba.0403020804.27a9b1dc@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to create an executable with py2exe, and it uses the odbc
module. The script runs fine until I use py2exe on it and run the
.exe. Then I get:

--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dbmod.py", line 2, in ?
  File "odbc.pyo", line 9, in ?
  File "odbc.pyo", line 7, in __load
odbc: Cannot import dbi module
--

dbi.dll is in the dist folder, and so is odbc.pyd.

Does anyone know how to solve this problem?

Thanks,
-Marc


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  1 16:51:26 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:51:26 -0600
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <04Mar1.130539pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>
References: <04Mar1.130539pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <20040301215126.GF6936@unpythonic.net>

You have to understand the difference between
    "\xc0".encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')
and
    u"\xc0".encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')
.. the latter returns the string '?', the former probably throws an
error assuming that tour default encoding is 'ascii'.
That's because ''.encode(...) is really the same as
''.decode(sys.getdefaultencoding()).encode(...)  It's in the decode step
that the error is being raised.

You could use
    "\xc0".decode("iso-8859-1").encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')
or you could use ''.translate:
    s = ''.join([chr(x) for x in range(128,256)])
    t = '?' * 128
    replace_map = string.maketrans(s, t)

>>> "abc\xc0\xff".translate(replace_map)
'abc??'

Jeff



From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar  7 13:54:33 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:54:33 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F3D505.13543307032004@reader2.panix.com>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> a goto is the natural representation of a transition between states.

Except that a goto allows the code for a state to be fallen into from 
the top.

The best way I know to implement a state machine in Python is one 
function for each state, and have each function return the next state, 
or perhaps an (output, nextState) tuple.  Your main loop then becomes 
something like:

   state = start
   while state != end:
      nextState, output = state (input)
      print output
      state = nextState
 
I would use a similar strategy in a language like C or C++ which allowed 
you to pass function pointers around.

I've implemented state machines in Perl with a huge multi-way 
if/elif/elif/else statement.  It's pretty ugly, but it beats gotos.


From mike at nospam.com  Wed Mar 17 14:25:55 2004
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:25:55 -0800
Subject: how best to iterate i times ?
References: <Yl16c.298$1r6.18@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c3a8o3$2e0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Randall Smith wrote:
> for i in range(100000):
> dothis()
>
> I like how clean this syntax is, but this method is very wasteful.
> The list created by range(100000) consumes a fair amount of memory
> and it is only used to iterate.
...
> So, question is:  What is the efficient, elegant, pythonic way to
> iterate with integers?

Solely for that purpose 'xrange' was created:

for i in xrange(100000):
  dothis()

HTH,
Mike








From mb at muenster.de  Fri Mar 19 14:11:23 2004
From: mb at muenster.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:11:23 GMT
Subject: Problem using smtplib.SMTP in a CGI program
References: <memo.20040319105838.852D@forestfield.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <405f45bd.3454000@news.muenster.de>

[dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes)]:

>SMTPhost = auth.smtp.oneandone.co.uk
[...]
>socket.error: (111, 'Connection refused')
>
>The value of SMTPhost is the one my ISP adviced me to use, it is an 
>authenticated server requiring a user name and password and I can access 
>it using Microsoft Outlook Express without difficulty.

I don't know about 'www.oneandone.co.uk' but I know what helped 
at 'www.1und1.de'. The problem is that they simply don't allow 
smtp-access from within.

On http://faq.1und1.de/hosting/skripte_datenbanken/python/3.html 1und1
advises you to use:

#!/usr/bin/python
import os
print "Content-Type: text/plain"
print
Mailto= "empfaenger at musterfrau.de"
Mailfrom = "absender at musterfrau.de"
Subject = "Betreff"
Header = """From: %s
To: %s
Subject: %s
""" % (Mailfrom, Mailto, Subject)
msg = Header + " Dies ist eine Test-Mail "
sendmail = os.popen("/usr/lib/sendmail -t", "w")
sendmail.write(msg)
sendmail.close()

hope this helps,

mb - Martin Bless



From chrish at cryptocard.com  Tue Mar 23 11:02:42 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:02:42 -0500
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <MeidnSCqmK7dIcLdRVn-vA@comcast.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.261.1080004772.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FAA1D.83576D05@alcyone.com>
	<MeidnSCqmK7dIcLdRVn-vA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <z6Z7c.11349$A_2.691568@news20.bellglobal.com>

DH wrote:

> This guy has 1600 newsgroup posts in the past year with one email address:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&q=author:try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname%40yahoo.com+> 
> 
> and before that had 5000 with another email address:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&q=author:vanevery%403DProgrammer.com+> 

With all that time on his hands, he should develop a nice Python 3D engine...

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From http  Mon Mar 22 07:55:12 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 04:55:12 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

assaf__ at walla.com writes:
> I am beginning to work on a fairly large project and I'm considering
> to use python for most of the coding, but I need to make sure first
> that it is reliable enough.
> 
> I need to make sure that I won't have surprises when my program runs
> on different real-world systems. So far I wrote a little script with
> python using urllib, and on one computer it failed completely
> because of a problem in getting the proxies (in my opinion this is a
> bug). How likely are such things to happen and how often, and to
> what extent are they more prevalent in python in comparison to C++?

The Python language is in general well-designed and much more concise
than C++.  A big program in C++ may map to a much smaller Python
program, turning a large project into a small project, and making it
less relevant whether Python works for large projects.

Python's library does have a lot of small gaps like the one you found
in urllib.  As the Twisted Matrix documentation puts it, you find
yourself re-inventing the wheel a lot, because you discover that the
existing wheels are often square and made of glue.

> If python is indeed suitable for large projects, how common is it to
> actually use if for such purposes? Is there perhaps a list of
> examples of real projects using python?

The canonical example of a complex Python project is Zope
(www.zope.com).  It's medium sized by the standards of big C++
projects, but as mentioned, a medium amount of Python code can
implement functionality that would take a much larger amount of C++.

Because Python is interpreted and highly dynamic, Python programs tend
to run slower than comparable C++ programs.  Whether that's a problem
for you depends on your application.  If you have specific Python
functions that are bottlenecks, you can re-implement them in C and
call them through Python's C API.  There's also a semi-experimental
native-code Python compiler called Psyco that produces a considerable
speedup at the cost of increased memory consumption.  The
next-generation Python implementation (PyPy or Python in Python) will
reportedly use Psyco or something simliar, in a more fundamental way.

In short, there's not a quick and simple answer to your question of
whether Python is right for what you're doing.  It's great for lots of
things, not so hot for some others, and is still evolving rather
quickly, so an unsuitable application today may become suitable in a
forthcoming release.


From ralf at tecont.de  Mon Mar  8 17:53:30 2004
From: ralf at tecont.de (Ralf Muschall)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:53:30 +0100
Subject: is perl better?
References: <mailman.21.1078498545.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84d67n0x3p.fsf@tecont.de>

"jon c" <jon_couchman at hotmail.com> writes:

> some idoit wrote a perl script that executes a java program using the
> system command.

Calling a perl author "idiot" in the presence of a java pragram sounds
funny ;-)

> All seemed fine, except when I run I find that the character string is
> too long?

Perl's system() uses the shell only if the argument contains
characters who *require* the intervention of a shell
(e.g. metacharacters like '*'), otherwise it does something like
fork() && exec().  You can test this by writing two tiny scripts:

,----
| #!/usr/bin/perl
| system('ls');
`----

,----
| #!/usr/bin/perl
| system('ls *');
`----

and running them with "strace -f".  The first one does:

2887  fork()                            = 2888
2888  execve("/bin/ls", ["ls"], [/* 52 vars */]) = 0

The second one does:

2929  fork()                            = 2930
2930  execve("/bin/sh", ["sh", "-c", "ls *"], [/* 52 vars */]) = 0
2930  execve("/bin/ls", ["ls", "Makefile", "OOo_1.1. ...

If your system has something else instead of a real shell, limits
might be exceeded.

Ralf
-- 
GS d->? s:++>+++ a+ C++++ UL+++ UH++ P++ L++ E+++ W- N++ o-- K- w--- !O M- V-
PS+>++ PE Y+>++ PGP+ !t !5 !X !R !tv  b+++ DI+++ D?  G+ e++++ h+ r? y?


From waters at porkless.net  Mon Mar  1 18:57:02 2004
From: waters at porkless.net (waters)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:57:02 -0700
Subject: Novice [].append Help
Message-ID: <c20iig08ip@enews1.newsguy.com>

I seem to have hit a snag.

I am trying to add the list (l_local) as an item in the output list 
(l_output). "l_local" is a modified copy of the format-list "l_format", 
which will be updated by index position within the function. The problem 
occurs in the following statement block:

def create_apid_list(l_format,l_values):
     l_output = []
     for t_curr_line in l_values: # ...for each list in the values list
         l_local = l_format # ...assign blank format to local list
         l_local[0] = t_curr_line[0] # ...modify with vendor number
         l_local[1] = t_curr_line[1] # ...modify with invoice number
         # print l_local # ... for testing
         l_output.append(l_local) # ...add list as item to output list
      return l_output

...the "l_output.append(l_local)" line is not returning the expected 
result. It is correctly producing a list of lists, but they all contain 
the the same values from the last t_curr_line[0] & t_curr_line[1] 
records in the l_values list. The preceding print statement displays the 
proper values containing data from all of the lists in l_values, so I'm 
not sure what the problem is.

I would like to avoid using the extend module, as I hope to use each 
list as a "line" when written to the output files.

The complete code is listed below, it uses the delimited.py module that 
was posted on this newsgroups awhile back. Some lines may wrap.

Thanks for any help...


# thybidding.py
# Input - tab delimited input file.
# Output - pipe delimited output files formatted accordingly.

# Formats
l_apid_format = [
     " ", # 00 apid_vendor          integer
     " ", # 01 apid_invoice         char(12)
     " ", # 02 apid_seq             smallint
     " ", # 03 apid_fund            char(4)
     " ", # 04 apid_desc            char(30)
     " ", # 05 apid_bud_dist        char(1)
     " ", # 06 apid_asset_sw        char(1)
     " ", # 07 apid_3rd_party       integer
     " ", # 08 apid_1099_cd         char(1)
     " ", # 09 apid_donate_cd       char(2)
     " ", # 10 apid_taxable_sc      char(1)
     " ", # 11 apid_org             char(8)
     " ", # 12 apid_obj             char(6)
     " ", # 13 apid_project         char(5)
     " ", # 14 apid_po              char(8)
     " ", # 15 apid_ap_cntl_org     char(8)
     " ", # 16 apid_ap_cntl_obj     char(6)
     " ", # 17 apid_ap_ctl_proj     char(5)
     " ", # 18 apid_over_bud        char(1)
     " ", # 19 apid_amt             decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 20 apid_txbl_amt_sc     decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 21 apid_po_fsc_yr       smallint
     " ", # 22 apid_po_liqd         char(1)
     " ", # 23 apid_key             integer
     " ", # 24 apid_fa_inv_qty      decimal(7,1)
     " ", # 25 apid_fa_inv_pct      decimal(5,2)
     " "] # 26 apid_asset           char(15)
l_apih_format = [
     " ", # 00 apih_vendor          integer
     " ", # 01 apih_invoice         char(12)
     " ", # 02 apih_type            smallint
     " ", # 03 apih_status          char(1)
     " ", # 04 apih_remit_no        smallint
     " ", # 05 apih_batch           smallint
     " ", # 06 apih_clerk           char(8)
     " ", # 07 apih_voucher         char(8)
     " ", # 08 apih_warrant         char(8)
     " ", # 09 apih_req             char(8)
     " ", # 10 apih_po              char(8)
     " ", # 11 apih_dept            char(5)
     " ", # 12 apih_ent             char(1)
     " ", # 13 apih_desc            char(30)
     " ", # 14 apih_cash_org        char(8)
     " ", # 15 apih_cash_obj        char(6)
     " ", # 16 apih_cash_proj       char(5)
     " ", # 17 apih_warr_org        char(8)
     " ", # 18 apih_warr_obj        char(6)
     " ", # 19 apih_warr_proj       char(5)
     " ", # 20 apih_sep_check       char(1)
     " ", # 21 apih_bud_dist        char(1)
     " ", # 22 apih_comments        char(250)
     " ", # 23 apih_je_year         smallint
     " ", # 24 apih_je_per          smallint
     " ", # 25 apih_inv_date        date
     " ", # 26 apih_disc_date       date
     " ", # 27 apih_due_date        date
     " ", # 28 apih_entry_date      date
     " ", # 29 apih_check_date      date
     " ", # 30 apih_check_no        integer
     " ", # 31 apih_inv_total       decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 32 apih_discbl_amt      decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 33 apih_disc_amt        decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 34 apih_inv_net         decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 35 apih_sales_tax1      decimal(8,2)
     " ", # 36 apih_sales_tax2      decimal(8,2)
     " ", # 37 apih_alpha_sort      char(20)
     " ", # 38 apih_wire_xfer       char(8)
     " ", # 39 apih_released        char(1)
     " ", # 40 apih_not_taxbl       decimal(13,2)
     " ", # 41 apih_county_cd       char(3)
     " ", # 42 apih_category        char(1)
     " ", # 43 apih_gl_effec_date   date
     " ", # 44 apih_cash_flow_cd    char(8)
     " ", # 45 apih_nxt_approv      char(8)
     " ", # 46 apih_approv_lvl      smallint
     " ", # 47 apih_wf_aprv_err     char(1)
     " ", # 48 apih_wo              integer
     " "] # 49 apih_contract        char(10)

# Variables
s_input_file = "/input/input.dat"
s_apid_output_path = "/output/apid_output.dat"
s_apih_output_path = "/output/apih_output.dat"

# Output Files
f_apid_output = open(s_apid_output_path,'w')
f_apih_output = open(s_apih_output_path,'w')

# Modules
import delimited # ...for reading tab or space delimited files
import string # ...for list to string conversion

# Functions
def retrieve_values():
     l_output = []
     for t_curr_line in 
delimited.split_delimited(open(s_input_file,'r').read()):
         l_output.append(t_curr_line)
     return l_output

def create_apid_list(l_format,l_values):
     l_output = []
     for t_curr_line in l_values: # ...for each line in the values list
         l_local = l_format # ...assign format to list
         l_local[0] = t_curr_line[0] # ...assign vendor number
         l_local[1] = t_curr_line[1] # ...assign invoice number
	# ...many more of these will follow. snipped for brevity
         # print l_local # <-- for testing
         l_output.append(l_local)
     return l_output


def create_apih_list(l_format,l_values):
     # currently unimplemented


def delimiterize(l_input):
     # currently unimplemented


def writefile(l_input_data,f_output_file):
     for l_line in l_input_data:
         f_output_file.write(l_line)


# Calls
l_values = retrieve_values()
l_apid = create_apid_list(l_apid_format,l_values)

# Unused
# l_apih = create_apih_list(l_apih_format,l_values)
# l_apid_delimited = delimiterize(l_apid)
# l_apih_delimited = delimiterize(l_apih)
# writefile(l_apid_delimited,s_apid_output)
# writefile(l_apih_delimited,s_apih_output)


From kbk at shore.net  Fri Mar 19 00:39:47 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:39:47 GMT
Subject: automatic static types (metaclass), attribute-order extraction
 = python instead of XML-likes - and some RequestsForEnhancements
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87smg5v1i4.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

svilen <sdobrev at sistechnology.com> writes:

> if i can help to do something of these or others, or you want ideas of
> how/when/why something can be implemented for the python, call
> ... there's plenty of experience in a lot of languages and languages
> in general, as well human-machine related things, even psychology. And
> i DO want to support and make better the good thing what python is.

While your comments are interesting, you may not find a receptive
audience here because as a group we tend to be rather inflexible.

I would suggest taking your requirements over to comp.lang.lisp.

I think you will find a number of individuals over there who will be
more than willing to assist you with them.

-- 
KBK


From bucknuggets at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 09:57:16 2004
From: bucknuggets at yahoo.com (Buck Nuggets)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 06:57:16 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>	<66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.86.1080611520.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <66a61715.0403300657.61323b0e@posting.google.com>

Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.86.1080611520.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Buck Nuggets wrote:
> 
> > "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> > 
> > In case you are interested in alternatives approaches...here's how I
> > typically do this:
> > 
> > step 1: sort the file using a separate sort utility (unix sort, cygwin
> > sort, etc)
> > 
> > step 2: have a python program read in rows, 
> >         compare each row to the prior,
> >         write out only one row for each set
> 
> Good solution, but wayyyy too much effort.
> You probably know it:
> If you are seeking for duplicates, and doing it by
> complete ordering, then you are thwowing lots of information
> away, since you are not seeking for neighborship, right?
> That clearly means: it must be inefficient.
> 
> No offense, just trying to get you on the right track!

Ha, that's ok.  I've been doing exactly this kind of thing for over
twenty years (crusty old database developer).  I think that you will
find that it is more efficient in both development and run time.  And
it's simple enough that once you start down this path you won't need
to brainstorm on how to get it to work.

Rather than taking 2-18 hours with the previously mentioned solutions
(which require index-building and 10 million index lookups), you'll
probably do the entire thing in about 10 minutes (9 minutes to sort
file + 1 minute to check dups).


From andywil at nortelnetworks.com  Fri Mar 26 07:44:24 2004
From: andywil at nortelnetworks.com (Glawster)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 04:44:24 -0800
Subject: strptime in 2.3.3
References: <mailman.394.1080220394.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e3b9aea.0403260444.40b410a3@posting.google.com>

"Holger Joukl" <Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.394.1080220394.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Andy writes:
> Folks,
> 
> I am parsing a list of directories that have a name format
> 'YearWeekNoDay', using the follwoing code
> 
>             print list dir[j]
>             print "%s" % (time.strptime (list dir[j], '%Y%U%w'))
>             ttuple = time.strptime (list dir[j], '%Y%U%w')
>             year   = ttuple[0]
>             month  = ttuple[1]
>             day    = ttuple[2]
>             print day, month, year
> 
> I get the following output:
> 
> 2004123
> (2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, -1)
> 1 1 2004
> 
> 2004124
> (2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, -1)
> 1 1 2004
> 
> ====
> 
> Are you sure you are using the correct format string?
> %U is week number of year [00-53], so I am not sure what happens
> if you combine that with a day of month that surely is not in this week..
> 
> Cheers
>  Holger
> 

%w (lower case) is day of the week 0 (Sunday) to 6


From Spam at ivonet.nl  Thu Mar  4 13:55:30 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:55:30 +0100
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?
References: <fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40477cd0$0$3893$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

www.python.org section documentation

cheerz,
Ivo.
www.IvoNet.nl

"Larry" <surfunbear at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d at posting.google.com...
> I'm a C++/java programmer and have done a bunch of perl coding.
> I am thinking of maybe learning python. What's a good intro primer, easy
to read
> good examples, understandable, maybe not one of those 2 inch thick books
etc. ?




From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 24 18:44:13 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:44:13 -0700
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<slrnc630qv.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <7n34609f4t6uueb79aia3km2pm68orh0u6@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:15:53 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

>In article <m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg wrote:
[snip]
>> Re-use of the same symbol to mean "modified syntax" in any context,
>> will avoid the Perl problem (too many symbols with idiosyncratic
>> meanings).  Beginners will learn very quickly that the special symbol
>> means "similar to the standard syntax, but RTFM if you don't yet know
>> this variation".  Locating the right documentation will be easy,
>> because it will always be at the end of the discussion on the normal
>> form of the statement.
>
>I'm not clear on what you mean by "modified syntax".  If it's accepted
>into the language, it's a standard syntax, so marking it with a symbol
>makes no sense.  If you mean to mark things for preprocessors, sure, a
>standard symbol would be a great idea, but we're not talking about
>preprocessors here.

By "modified syntax" I mean an extension of the current standard
syntax, e.g. the "decorators" we are now considering adding to the
current standard function definition syntax, or the extra "arguments"
we were discussing for the print statement.

[snip]
>> Does it make sense to have a general symbol for modifications of the
>> simple standard syntax?
>
>If you mean marking some bits of the language as being second-class,
>absolutely not.

"Second class" has negative connotations.  A better description would
be a "modification" or "extension" of the basic syntax, "secondary"
perhaps in the order in which beginners would learn the language, or
in the frequency with which the new syntax is used in comparison to
the basic syntax.

>It may make sense to have comment character meaning "ignore the
>keyword after this - it's for an external, mechanical tool".  Doxygen
>and others already have conventions for this (not to mention the #!
>syntax), but it would be helpful to have a common agreed-on format.  I
>think that would arise better as something the various tool vendors
>evolve among themselves, though.

There is a similarity here in the use of comment characters to tell
Python - "Ignore this.  It is for an external tool." - but the
difference here is we are not talking not about external tools with
their own command syntax.  In a sense, we are "adding tools" to the
language by extending its syntax, so maybe the analogy to commented
commands has some value.  Certainly, we wouldn't tolerate a variety of
comment characters depending on which external tool the command was
for.

I guess its time for some concrete examples.  For the function
decorator syntax, I would use

    def func(arg1, arg2, ...) @(dec1, dec2, ...):

This is very similar to the syntax proposed in PEP 318, the
differences being the use of a special symbol, and () instead of [].
This satisfies all of the design goals in PEP 318 (which are a very
good statement of some general design goals for any extension syntax).

The advantage over what is proposed in PEP 318 is that this syntax is
more universally applicable to other statements we may want to extend.
The [] alone are good for just this one statement, so we will have to
learn a different syntax every time we want to add something new to an
existing statement.

Consider the print statement, recently discussed in this forum (Paul
Prescod 3/7/2004).  We can't say

print [separator = ' ', terminator = '\n'] x, y, z

because that looks like we are trying to print a list.  A special
symbol will make it clear -- this is a modification of the normal
print statement, not just another item to be printed.

The key design goal is to *mimimize* the number of syntactic
variations we have to introduce as we extend the language.  The
proposed @() syntax seems like it would work in *many* places, and it
always has the same general meaning -- "This is a modification of the
basic syntax you already understand."  To learn the details of a
particular variation, you read the manual on the particular statement
where the variation occurs.  @(staticmethod) - read about it under
"def".  print @(...) - read the manual on 'print'.

Here is another example. Now that we have function decorators, a very
sensible thing to do is to use a "generator" decorator to make a
function into a generator.  We should then deprecate the 'yield'
keyword as it is no longer necessary, and may actually cause problems
when you change a function into a generator, but forget to change
'return' to 'yield'.

That leaves one little problem.  What do we do for the unusual case
where you want both a "generator return" and a return that terminates
the function, just as if it were not a generator.  This problem can be
solved almost without any documentation once our "modified syntax" is
well understood.  '@return' means 'this is a different kind of return'
-- in the case of generators, a return that terminates the generator.

There are lots of examples like this, but I don't want to get into a
long discussion on the merits of each example.  We have to assume that
changes and extensions will come.  I would like to discuss the idea of
using a common syntax for all these extensions.  I would also like to
avoid a debate about the @ sign ( I haven't been burned by Perl. :>)
We can choose another symbol.  The requirements are no conflict with
existing syntax, and neutral meaning.

The proposed syntax for PEP 318 is good, and I am glad it is turning
away from special words.  The proposed syntax satisfies the design
goals for extending the syntax of one statement.  I would just like to
have something more general that works for other statements as well.

-- Dave



From bakutek at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 23:24:50 2004
From: bakutek at hotmail.com (paiseh)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 04:24:50 -0000
Subject: help in Vpython needed...
Message-ID: <c2jgui+4f5d@eGroups.com>

Below is a source code for Vpython. I need to do some modification 
and sincerely hope you all can help....

Now, there are 2 compartments (upper and lower) and there are 5 
green balls in random motion.

I need to modify such that the 5 balls move only in the upper 
compartment. Also, i need another 20 balls that only move in the 
lower compartment.

Pls help......

With regards
Wee Nam

#########################################
# Import the library(s)
#########################################
from visual import * 
from random import uniform 
from visual.graph import *

##########################################
# Create Wall(s)
##########################################
thk = 0.3 
side = 4.0  
s2 = 2*side - thk 
s3 = 2*side + thk

wallR = box (pos=vector( side, 0, 0), length=thk, height=s2, 
width=s3, color = color.red) 
wallL = box (pos=vector(-side, 0, 0), length=thk, height=s2, 
width=s3, color = color.red) 
wallB = box (pos=vector(0, -side, 0), length=s3, height=thk, 
width=s3, color = color.blue) 
wallT = box (pos=vector(0, side, 0), length=s3, height=thk, 
width=s3, color = color.blue) 
wallBK = box(pos=vector(0, 0, -side), length=s2, height=s2, 
width=thk, color = (0.7,0.7,0.7)) 
wallM = box (pos=vector(0, -0.25*side, 0), length=s3, height=thk, 
width=s3, color = color.blue) 

##########################################
# Create Ball(s)
##########################################
no_particles=5
ball_radius=0.5
maxpos=side-.5*thk-ball_radius
maxv=1.0
D2=(2*ball_radius)**2 

ball_list=[]
p_list=[] 
pos_list=[] 
for i in arange(no_particles): 
    ball = sphere(color = color.green, radius=ball_radius)  
    p = maxv*vector(uniform(-1,1),uniform(-1,1),uniform(-1,1))
    p_list.append(p) 
    position=maxv*vector(uniform(-1,1),uniform(-1,1),uniform(-1,1))
    pos_list.append(position) 
    ball.pos=vector(position) 
    ball_list.append(ball) 

p_array=array(p_list) 
pos_array=array(pos_list)  

###########################################
# Setup Histogram Plot
###########################################
graphwindow=gdisplay(xtitle='v_x',ytitle='N',ymax=no_particles/2)
velocity_dist=ghistogram(bins=arange
(0,2*maxv,maxv/5),accumulate=1,average=1)
expected_distribution=gcurve(color=color.green)
for vx in arange(0,2*maxv,maxv/20):
       expected_distribution.plot(pos = (vx,.27*no_particles*exp(-
vx**2/maxv**2*3/2)))

##########################################
# Time loop for moving Ball(s)
########################################### 
ltriang=fromfunction(lambda i,j: less_equal(j,i), 
[no_particles,no_particles])

dt = 0.05

while 1: 
    rate(100)
    
    ######################################
    # Move Particles
    ######################################     
    pos_array=pos_array+p_array*dt 

    ######################################
    # Check wall collisions
    ######################################   
    putmask(p_array,greater(pos_array,maxpos),-p_array) 
    putmask(pos_array,greater(pos_array,maxpos),2*maxpos-pos_array) 
    putmask(p_array,less_equal(pos_array,-maxpos),-p_array) 
    putmask(pos_array,less_equal(pos_array,-maxpos),-2*maxpos-
pos_array) 

    ######################################
    # Check particle collisions
    ######################################  
    separation=pos_array-pos_array[:,NewAxis] 
    sepmag2=add.reduce(separation*separation,-1) 
    putmask(sepmag2,ltriang,4*D2) 
    hit=less_equal(sepmag2,D2) 
    hit_list=sort(nonzero(hit.flat)) 

    for ij in hit_list: 
        i, j = divmod(ij,no_particles) 
        sepmag=sqrt(sepmag2[i,j]) 
        direction=separation[i,j]/sepmag 
        pi=dot(p_array[i],direction) 
        pj=dot(p_array[j],direction) 
        exchange=pj-pi 
        p_array[i]=p_array[i]+exchange*direction 
        p_array[j]=p_array[j]-exchange*direction 

        overlap=2*ball_radius-sepmag 
        pos_array[i]=pos_array[i]-overlap*direction 
        pos_array[j]=pos_array[j]+overlap*direction
        
    ######################################
    # Update position and velocity 
    # of balls for plotting
    ######################################  
    for i in arange(len(ball_list)): 
        ball_list[i].pos=vector(pos_array[i])
        ball_list[i].velocity=vector(p_array[i]) 

    #######################################
    # Plot the x velocity histogram
    #######################################
    velocity_dist.plot(data=abs(p_array[:,0]))








From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 10 08:22:16 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:22:16 +0100
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
In-Reply-To: <404F1186.8080403@rogers.com>
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<404F1186.8080403@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <404F1688.40502@mxm.dk>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> Max M wrote:
> but here's a simple example of using ZipFile for creating zips of
> directories.  You'd want to check for .jpg, .mpg, etceteras and avoid 
> compressing those most likely, but the basics are there.


Thanks!

Max M



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Mar 19 11:31:00 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:31:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3f784$feb$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Patrick Useldinger <p at trick.lu> writes:

>Hi All,
>I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
>evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
>Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
>specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
>- the ease of compiling CPython
>- the thread support (both for Python and in general)
>- running Twisted.

I went through this recently, BSD is much nicer in many ways.  I loaded both
OpenBSD and FreeBSD.  FreeBSD seems easier in most respects and I've pretty
much settled on that.  If only I could do the same at work and get away from
this RedHat crap :(

So, for FreeBSD: If you're network connected, keeping up to date with
ports/packages is easy, I'm still trying to find out about non network
connected machines.  For python, everything seems to work as expected.  I
I haven't tried twisted yet (it's on my todo list - I'll get round to it about
the same time they explain it !) but I wouldn't expect any problems.

However, if you wanted the extra security of OpenBSD, my experience was that
it was only a little extra work (sometimes none) for OpenBSD.  Unless you want
the very latest versions of something, in which case you could either be in
for a wait or a lot of work.

There are definitely pros and cons on both sides though, for instance, I seem
to have a flaky motherboard that locks up my shiny new drive (see below).
OpenBSD just quietly downgraded the connection (something I didn't even know
was possible) and allowed me to carry on working, with other systems I have to
manually downgrade it in the bootup sequence.

Actually, what I did for my home PC was buy a 120Gb drive (they're pretty
cheap now - cheaper than a copy of Windows for example) and partition it into
4 holding: OpenBSD (which must be 1st), FreeBSD, Debian and a space for Hurd.
Along with RedHat 8.? on the original disk.  This gives me a lot of
flexibility for trying things out in different systems.  It's rare for me to
not use FreeBSD.

Cheers,
Eddie


From CaptainN at altel.net  Sun Mar 28 08:55:28 2004
From: CaptainN at altel.net (CaptainN at altel.net)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:55:28 -0500
Subject: How to run another .py file w/o exec command?
Message-ID: <yQA9c.7195$ol3.1379@fe03.usenetserver.com>

Hi everybody,

I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I can't find it.  How can I execute
another .py file from my first .py file without using an exec* command?
They're both in the same directory, and it would be nice to have some
run("another.py") type statement as opposed to a big exec with absolute
pathnames and garbage like that.

It works the way I have it, but it just seems like a bad way in general to
do it.  I'm runnning Python 2.3.3 on win32.

Thanks!
CaptainN





From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Mar 20 16:12:41 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:12:41 GMT
Subject: Py Tic Tac Toe in action
References: <mailman.148.1079673411.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dt27c.866764$ts4.125479@pd7tw3no>

I played against your script and got a win, which, as you know, is not possible
with optimal play by the opponent. A while ago I wrote a script that plays
optimal tic-tac-toe. Let me know if you want to look at it.

Peace


"Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.148.1079673411.742.python-list at python.org...
| Hello folks,
|
| See the Py Tic Tac Toe in action at
| http://balajin.net/cgi-bin/pyttt.py
|
| -Premshree Pillai
|
| =====
| -Premshree
| [http://www.qiksearch.com/]
|
| ________________________________________________________________________
| Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services,
tools and more.
| Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
|




From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar  5 14:07:27 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:07:27 +0100
Subject: function to return a list of all methods for an object
References: <xL32c.531$No1.31862@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <c2aj5f$6r4$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Kevin Altis wrote:

> I need a way of getting a list of all the methods for an object. I want
> the unbound methods for the objects class for some further manipulation.
> My old way of doing this did a recursive iteration over __bases__ and the
> code seems sort of fragile, especially with multiple inheritance. I came
> up with a much simpler version that uses dir(), but would like a sanity
> check before committing to it. Perhaps there is a better way? This only
> needs to work with Python 2.2 and later, so I won't mind say "Doh!" if
> I've missed the obvious simple solution and someone points out my
> stupidity.
> 
> # return a list of unbound methods for an object
> def getMethods(object):
>     methods = []
>     names = dir(object.__class__)
>     for name in names:
>         m = getattr(object.__class__, name)
>         if isinstance(m, types.MethodType):
>             #print "method:", m
>             methods.append(m)
>     return methods

Seems sensible...

> Here's the output:
> <__main__.E instance at 0x007EABC0> __main__.E
> B dummy
> [<unbound method E.dummy>,
>  <unbound method E.fourD>,
>  <unbound method E.oneA>,
>  <unbound method E.threeC>,
>  <unbound method E.twoB>]


... and works.

You might consider using inspect.getmembers() instead, which is implemented
in a similar fashion:

def getmembers(object, predicate=None):
    results = []
    for key in dir(object):
        value = getattr(object, key)
        if not predicate or predicate(value):
            results.append((key, value))
    results.sort()
    return results

Providing the predicate is straightforward, so it all depends on wether you
like the (name, method) tuples instead of your method-only in the resulting
list.


Peter



From brazil at brazils-animeland.de  Fri Mar  5 07:34:42 2004
From: brazil at brazils-animeland.de (Michael Borgwardt)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:34:42 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <ff82ae1b.0403050329.4568b566@posting.google.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<ff82ae1b.0403050329.4568b566@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c29s54$1qsrba$1@ID-161931.news.uni-berlin.de>

goose wrote:

>>quite robust.  For instance, C is great if you are going to develop
>>software for 1 platform.  However, if you are developing software for
>>multiple platforms, Java is a better choice.
> 
> 
> Pick a fairly simple application ... lets say a tic-tac-toe
> game. Are you certain that the game implemented in java will
> run on more platforms than the same game implemented in ANSI
> C?

Absolutely certain if it uses a GUI. Otherwise, it depends very much
on the C programmer, whereas even the most incompetent Java programmer
will find it hard to casually insert a platform dependance.


> C has many many weaknesses; platform dependence is /not/ one of
> them. 

Like *hell* it isn't!

- sizes of basic types differ between platforms and compilers
- newly allocated memory may or may not be zeroed
- sctructs may or may not be padded, variables may or may
   not need to be aligned
- etc.

Yes, you can work around all of them, but it takes an active effort. There's
a reason why it's now common practice to buld C applications with GNU
autoconf, making the build a *three*-level process (counting pre-processor,
compilation and linking together as only one). And it still often fails
with cryptic error messages.



From http  Thu Mar 11 18:24:08 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 15:24:08 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<5d83790c.0403111415.6485048@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xptbjdl2f.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> Guido at one time wished that print was a function instead of a
> statement.  Here's your chance to push that idea forward.

What about the assert statement?  Should that be a function too?


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 16:07:10 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 22:07:10 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfptb22o9u.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<slrnc63edr.3sn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <tyfhdwegdj5.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> writes:

> In article <tyfptb22o9u.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>, Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > Sometimes I want to run a program that I _know_ full well is full of
> > bugs, dammit!  During the whole of the development process, the
> > program is full of bugs, by definition ... I still want to be able to
> > see how it behaves, in order to investigate what to do about
> > it. Static type systems all too often forbid me to do this. (Even
> > Hindley Milner type systems.)
> 
> But, like you said, type errors are the most trivial kinds of errors.
> Why do you want to know what'll happen if you pass it a float instead of
> an int, when you know full well that can never happen in practice due to
> static typing?

I probably wouldn't want to check what happens when I pass a float
instead of an int, but a static type system is quite likely to
complain about my "passing a float instead of an int"[*] in one part
of the program when I am actually trying to see what happens when I
try changing an int to a float in some other part of the program. (So
I try changing the int the static type system found for me,
temporarily, in order to proceed with my trial ... but then it
complains about another float-int mismatch a bit further along ... so
I try changing that int, and then it complains about ... you get the
picture. By the time I've satisfied the type system, I've completely
forgotten what it was that I was trying to do in the first
place. Sound familiar to anyone ?)


[*] I trust that we all understand that this phrase represents inane
    type errors in general.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  1 18:16:50 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 18:16:50 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<6uK0c.4347$mx4.106055@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vsqe$6rh$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<R4M0c.4365$mx4.107234@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <c20g92$nu4$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <R4M0c.4365$mx4.107234 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Nicolas Fleury  <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> 
>> Right.  As I said, you have to use the ``thread`` module directly; you
>> can't use ``threading``.
>
>But even if I use "thread", I have no way to put the functionality in 
>one class if I want access the members in the running thread.

Huh?  I don't understand what you mean.

>>>I just want a way to garantee that all my threads are cancelled when the 
>>>main thread is finished.
>> 
>> So hold references to them and call the ``cancel()`` method yourself.
>
>That's a possible solution.  Make a custom Thread class with a cancel 
>method and with all instances registered somewhere.  At the end of the 
>main thread, I call something to cancel all these threads.  There's 
>however some problems with that solution:
>- Parent threads need to be cancelled before their children threads.

Why's that a problem?  Just hold references to the parent threads in the
main thread and cascade the cancels down.

>- It only works at the end of the main thread; it cannot be used at the 
>middle of an appplication.

Why?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar 28 20:52:12 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:52:12 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
	<000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <001701c41530$747c8e70$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Can you submit a patch to SF which abstracts that into its own method
> ("end_request" or something similar?) which can be overridden.
[snip]
> That sounds like the main problem.  Sounds like getting the shutdown() call
> into its own overridable method would help a lot.

That doesn't help.  Basically what has happened is due to a defect
in Python (IMHO).  Because objects that include a destructor (__del__)
won't necessarily have the destructor called, and file/socket
handles are real operating system resources, the code has to manually
call close everywhere to ensure they aren't leaked (very reminiscent
of C memory management).  The calling of close() everywhere was
easiest done by assuming that there will be one transaction per
connection.  Add in the 'dup' behaviour I talked about in an
earlier message and it is really hard to fix all this.  Basically
there is manual handle management going on that really should
be handled correctly by the garbage collection system.  Additionally
M2Crypto does not support dup'ing a file handle.  Nor does 
the SSL builtin to Python 2.3, so the latter builds yet another
layer of reference counting framework.  IMHO it may require
new classes with new semantics, just as happened between
Python 1.5 and 2.0.

I *am not* volunteering to fix this.  I can't even test fixes
unless they test the whole thing since fixes in one small area
don't do me any good.  I also have the constraint of having to
work on 2.2 as well as 2.3.

However if someone wants to fix the *whole thing*, and not just
a call here or there, I will provide moral support and the 
lessons I learnt the hard way.

Roger




From vincent at visualtrans.de  Fri Mar 26 01:23:40 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:23:40 +0100
Subject: How do i cast a string to be used as a module?
References: <9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <c40i9d$dt9$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277 at fed1read03...
> In article <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601 at fed1read07>,
> sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry) writes:
> > I don't know that this partilarily bad programming,
> > but I was interested in doing the following.
> >
<snipped for brevity>

Does this help?:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vincent+wehren+dynmods&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=brnitd%24ejn%241%40news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl&rnum=1

Regards

Vincent Wehren




From bla at libero.it  Wed Mar 17 21:45:56 2004
From: bla at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:45:56 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
Message-ID: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>


Hi , 

I obtained this result : 
------
>>> '1' > 1 
True
------
with python2.2.3 and 2.3.3 .
(Yes , in python 2.2 i get 1 instead of True)

but 
------
>>> '1' + 1
TypeError 
-------

and 
-----------------------------
>>>'1'.__gt__.__doc__
'x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y'
-----------------------------

so i'm a little puzzled :)

Is this a bug or is there a very good reason 
to this strange behaviour ? 

Thank you all .

bye .

(Please forgive english mistakes)
 



From rmanx at gmx.de  Thu Mar 25 08:51:36 2004
From: rmanx at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:51:36 +0100
Subject: threading crashes application
Message-ID: <c3uo59$ddr$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hello List,

I have implemented an application in python 2.3.3 and wxPython 2.4.2.4u
which works fine. Now, because the GUI is locked during command execution I
have implemented the command execution in a thread and took
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-May/044903.html as an
example.

Everything works well untill the application crashes without any error
message. I have tried to use the debuger from boa-constructor, but it only
says: application disconnected do you want to stop debugger (something like
this).

Can somebody of you give a an advice how I have to proceed to find the
error. There is only one thread active at one time. The application crashes
at almost the same place. Please imagine this application as one-way script
which works from beginning to the end always the same way showing the result
in a GUI.


Here is the method which starts the thread:

def __execCLI__(self,command=None):
        if not self.worker:
            self.worker = CLIThread(self.parent,command)
            wxLogDebug('CLIThread starting ...')          <- this gets
printed
            self.worker.start()                                        <-- 
start thread
            while self.worker:
                # wait until worker is finished
                wxYield()
            return self.CLIResult


here is the implementation of the thread:

class CLIThread(threading.Thread):
    """Thread to execute CLI commands

    """
    def __init__(self, notify_window, command):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self._notify_window = notify_window
        self.command = command
        self.ID = None

    def run(self):
        # create result object
        self.result = RESULT()
        # execute command
        try:
            (self.stdin,self.stdout) = os.popen2(self.command)
        except:
            pass
        try:
            # get stdout and write to task output (TO)
            self.line = self.stdout.readline()
            while self.line:
                self.result.addTO(self.line)
                self.line = self.stdout.readline()
            # close self.stdin and self.stdout and set RC
            self.stdin.close()
            self.RC = self.stdout.close()
            if self.RC == None:
                self.result.setRC(0)
            else:
                self.result.setRC(self.RC)
        except:
            pass
        wxPostEvent(self._notify_window,ResultEvent(self.result))





From scummer at 3squares.com  Thu Mar 11 10:15:16 2004
From: scummer at 3squares.com (scummer)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 07:15:16 -0800
Subject: Python Equivalent??
References: <1a378204.0403091353.c06c62b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.202.1078889095.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1a378204.0403110715.414b55e0@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.202.1078889095.19534.python-list at python.org>...

> Here's the final function:
>     def convertDateTime(d, pattern="%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"):
>         tup = time.strptime(d, pattern)
>         seconds = calendar.timegm(tup)
>         assert time.gmtime(seconds)[:6] == tup[:6]
>         return seconds
> 
> Or, for the terminally terse:
>     def convertDateTime(d, p):
>         return calendar.timegm(time.strptime(d, p))
> 
> Jeff


Thanks a lot Jeff, this is sweet. I came up with the following just
after posting:

     def convertDateTime(d, p):
         os.environ['TZ'] = "UTC"
         time.tzset()
         dollop = time.mktime(time.strptime(d, p))
         return int(dollop)

But I think yours is superior as I have not quite figured out how to
get the timezone back to the local one again.

Thanks again,

Mark


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 09:25:39 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 06:25:39 -0800
Subject: Group comment
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>

Hi
Can I comment a group of statements together i.e
If I a 4 statements say:
i=1
i+=1
print i
print i+1

Instead of commenting each satement iindividually by # is there
something which allws me to comment these 4 statements in one go as in
C++ using /*...*/


From timr at probo.com  Tue Mar  2 02:25:43 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:25:43 -0800
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
References: <20040301215126.GF6936@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.9.1078199710.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2hd8405emic5f4cijnhg2ccolg663fgd16@4ax.com>

Bill Janssen <janssen at parc.com> wrote:

>> You could use
>>     "\xc0".decode("iso-8859-1").encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')
>
>Yes, this is what I'm doing at the moment.  But it seems a real hack.
>The string *isn't* in Latin-1; it's binary, it's data, and there
>should be a way of saying that.

If it's binary, then it is completely meaningless to try to encode it into
Unicode in the first place.  0xd9 has absolutely no meaning without an
associated encoding.

I would have guessed that ''.translate() is the kind of thing you want, and
it's probably more efficient than a fake decode/encode.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 07:26:34 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 04:26:34 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
	<40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com>
	<4064C072.62D8E489@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403290426.5aca2b2d@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> Axel Boldt wrote:
> > Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> > 
> > > What part of the semantics are you unclear about?  Two sequences are
> > > equal if they are element-wise equal.
> > 
> > That definition is circular.
> 
> No, because presumably you already understand what equality means for
> two non-sequence objects.

Yes, but a list can contain other lists, and even itself, as elements.
So in order to understand what equality for lists means, according to
the above definition, you already need to understand what equality for
lists means. That's what makes the definition circular. I thought we
had clarified that much a week ago.

> > Consider for instance the following definition:
> > * all strings and numbers are called "well-founded"
> > * a list is called well-founded if and only if all its elements are
> > well-founded.
> > 
> > l=[]
> > l.append(l)
> > Is l well-founded? Both answers "yes" and "no" are consistent with the
> > above definition.
> 
> No they aren't, since l's first element is a list, not a string or
> number.

The above definition does not require that the first element of a
well-founded list be a string or number. It could also be a
well-founded list.

> What is the point of this definition?

To show how easy it is to give circular definitions (and
non-terminating recursive functions) when dealing with lists.

Axel


From rays at blue-cove.com  Fri Mar  5 20:15:27 2004
From: rays at blue-cove.com (Ray Schumacher)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:15:27 -0800
Subject: Upgrade 2.2.2 to 2.3.3: Keep my old 3rd party modules or rebuild
 them or reinstall from scratch?
In-Reply-To: <4048E752.75F37710@sdf.lonestar.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.4.2.20040305171049.12b5a140@blue-cove.com>

At 01:47 PM 3/5/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>I'd like to upgrade to 2.3.3, mostly to use VPython. I have a lot of
>stuff not in the standard distro,
>VPython, PIL, wxPython, eGenix tools, etc. How much of this stuff can I
>still use as is, i.e. just copying over the 2.2 site-lib stuff to the
>2.3 site-lib stuff? What will I have to rebuild? TIA

I just re-installed new for PIL and wx, Numeric etc. but some of my stuff 
for video capture has no version for 2.3x and no source, so I had to stick 
with 2.2 on my astronomy computer.
Hopefully you won't find the same...

Ray 




From adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net  Wed Mar  3 21:11:35 2004
From: adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 02:11:35 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
Message-ID: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

    This is my .02 as to why Python is excellent for academic use for
upcoming CS graduates. Since I have been 14 I have been programming, mainly
BASIC/VB/C/C++ so I was familiarized with basic programming concepts. Then
up until more than 1 1/2yr ago I stumbled into Python, looking for a C/C++
compiler for windows, and Python kept coming up, so I go to check it out
(this was on www.downloads.com) I download it, installed it, and ran to the
all common newbie problem of running IDLE and thinking that this is all that
Python had to offer, I naivly deleted it, thinking it was probably some
novelty language, that had no support for it. I check out python.org and
notice it was very active, and there was a more up to date version out, so I
download it again, this time I read the documentation and followed the
tutorial, within 15 minutes I already had enough under my belt to start on
small projects, which within a week I already had made a great deal, I was
hooked! Cutting to the chase, Python introduced me to the world of OOP,
which in VB I mildy touched its pseudo OOP methods, but have not been fully
exposed to it.
    Now Python being a fully OOP language, it made it easier for me to
understand what all this OOP stuff was, from generating events to
inheritance, and organizing my code into reusable modules and the such.
Also, the clarity in which Python syntax is presented made it MUCH easier to
understand any source, this was a big plus as I was studying other persons
works to enhance my knowledge of Python.
    Then this year I started in a local university to persue my CS degree
after undergoing a 2yr college, in my university the language of choice for
the CS program is Java which I was actually dissappointed as I wanted to
expand my knowledge of C/C++ which I already had some prior knowledge about,
but nevertheless with my background in Python, giving me the knowledge of
OOP I dove into Java like a pro, everything came easy to me, I fully
understood the language, everything was just some clarification and learning
the syntax (I still dislike Java, but to each its own), so I am writing this
as a thank you to everyone who contributes to Python.

Sincerely,
    Adonis




From gtrojan at erols.com  Sat Mar  6 14:55:33 2004
From: gtrojan at erols.com (George Trojan)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:55:33 +0000
Subject: edit_modified() bug in Tkinter?
Message-ID: <404a2c81$0$3080$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>

The call

print self.ed.edit_modified()

where self.ed is t.component('text'), and t is Pmw.ScrolledText(),
gives the following traceback:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1346, 
in __call__
     return self.func(*args)
   File "ed.py", line 30, in redo
     print self.ed.edit_modified()
   File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2832, 
in edit_modified
     return self.edit("modified", arg)
   File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2820, 
in edit
     return self._getints(
   File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 973, 
in _getints
     return tuple(map(getint, self.tk.splitlist(string)))
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, bool found

Is the following fix in Tkinter.py, line 2831, a reasonable thing to do?

#       return self.edit("modified", arg)
         return self.tk.call((self._w, 'edit', 'modified') + (arg,))

I'd prefer not to modify Python distribution code.

George


From me at me.com  Mon Mar 22 21:07:51 2004
From: me at me.com (Jason Sewall)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:07:51 -0500
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0403191233.598912fc@posting.google.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<6ee58e07.0403191233.598912fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105v6vo7np21v43@corp.supernews.com>

What I am used to is how you can declare variables in Common Lisp to be 
static; when you are done building your system, you can then go through 
and optimize for speed.

Then again, Lisp is a very industrial language with plenty of experience 
and development under its belt - python is fairly new.

Still, I am impressed by Pythons abstraction and libraries. I'm going to 
look into different ways of speeding up my code through general 
optimization and perhaps some C code.

Thanks again for your help, all.

Jason


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar  2 19:25:51 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:25:51 -0700
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
References: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qa8a40tcen1fg64h06a7ctiskq7mrlokp5@4ax.com>

On 2 Mar 2004 13:26:17 -0800, fxj at mpe.mpg.de (F Jamitzky) wrote:

>It is rather easy to define functions in python that mimic the special
>ruby syntactic sugar like:
>
>5.times { print "Hello World!" }
>
>or
>
>[toast, cheese, wine].each { |food| eat food }
>
>In python these fragments can be written as:
>
>5 *times(lambda: printf("Hello World!") )

What is wrong with:
for n in range(5): print("Hello World!")
It doesn't require definition of a new class, and it uses a syntax
everyone past Chapter 1 in Python will find familiar.

There are a few things in Ruby I would like to see in Python.  See the
Working with Strings example at
http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython but in general, I'm
finding the "syntactic sugar" of Ruby is almost all personal
preference ( -1942.abs vs abs(-1942) ).  I have yet to see an example
of Ruby code blocks that is fundamentally better than the equivalent
in Python.

-- Dave

>or
>
>[toast, cheese, wine] *each (lambda food: eat(food) )
>
>by defining a Times class like that:
>
>class Times:
>    def __rmul__(self,n):
>        for i in range(n):
>            self.func()
>    def __call__(self,func):
>        self.func=func
>        return self
>times=Times()
>
>Was this intended as a language feature or is this style an
>"unpythonic"
>missuse of the syntax ? I like the way of writing loops and list
>comprehensions that way, but I think there will be an outcry of some
>people. What do you guys think about extensions like that ?
>
>cheers
>Ferdinand



From lucat at despammed.com  Sun Mar 14 17:09:51 2004
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca T.)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:09:51 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
In-Reply-To: <2ouei1-u2q.ln1@valpo.de>
References: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u9tei1-qqo.ln1@valpo.de>
	<c32jtn$23i7d1$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<2ouei1-u2q.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <c32l9s$2317to$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mathias Waack wrote:

> Please read su(1) until you find the answer. Or use the right group;)

Damn, you are right, thanx... now i wonder why sudo exists though... oh 
well.

Bye,
   Luca


From bear at sonic.net  Wed Mar  3 10:47:54 2004
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:47:54 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404600B4.53A91D07@sonic.net>

nobody wrote:
> 
> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
> asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
> of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
> this language.
> 

The solution to your problem is obvious.  Just treat Lisp like 
Chocolate; if you don't like it, you can't have any.

Followups set.

			Bear


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar 25 09:32:23 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:32:23 -0500
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com><4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com><40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com><4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com><40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com><405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3uqhh$o15$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a at posting.google.com...
> Well, it's precisely the point: the definition of list equality given
> in the language reference is circular, but the implementation of ==
> clearly is not, so the two don't coincide.

Is this different from the general fact that the language definition allows
unbounded nesting, recursion, lengths, and sizes, while particular
implementations do not?

Actually, a bit more doc on implementation limits in general would not
hurt, but some might be a bit difficult to pin down or are system specific.

Terry J. Reedy






From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Mar 11 16:09:09 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:09:09 +0100
Subject: subclassing list and adding other variables ?
In-Reply-To: <4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040311210909.GA6377@nl.linux.org>

GrelEns wrote:
> i wonder if this possible to subclass a list or a tuple and add more
> attributes ? also does someone have a link to how well define is own
> iterable object ?

For subclassing builtin types, read:

http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#subclassing

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 11/03 20:25 UTC:
	2.0?C   wind 2.7 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar 21 12:50:42 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:50:42 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3kg1r$28h8nu$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <e811j1-pv7.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> >    $ PYTHONPATH=example.zip python main.py
>
> Just like Java's CLASSPATH (and possibly inspired by it)...

Except predating Java by several years ...

>  Does it work on Windows as well?

   C:\WINDOWS> set PYTHONPATH=example.zip
   C:\WINDOWS> python main.py

> And how about .tar.gz, .tar.bz or .gzip files?

Nope.  The unit of transport is zip files.  You can also
point to expanded directories.

Roger




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Mar 18 21:29:55 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:29:55 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>
	<c3b18o$ao9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<suuni1-u55.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3d4nq$gho$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <oh2qi1-mvc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> There is nothing wrong with adding tuples.  I would expect that normally
> the number of exceptions is somewhat small, so the overhead of tuple
> addition is not that bad...

Yes, it is only done once per startup and then potentially once per
opening a device with a broken driver.  I was just trying to answer
someone wondering why you would ever want to change the exceptions
caught at runtime.

In theory there could be a degenerate case where you could have
hundreds due to poorly designed libraries, but in practise that
can be addressed in several ways and is not worth worrying about.

Roger




From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Thu Mar  4 14:04:19 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:04:19 -0300 (ART)
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>
Message-ID: <20040304190419.20224.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>


>          if sig not in d.keys():
> 

Have you tried 

  if sig not in d.iterkeys():

?

Aloysio

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 29 21:08:17 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 21:08:17 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872 at fed1read04>,
Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
>
>I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess I'll
>have to change that.
>
>I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in the
>language.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Mar 15 12:44:51 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:44:51 -0600
Subject: entropy
Message-ID: <m2znaic8do.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


I am trying to compute the entropy of a time series (eg,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory) using

S = - sum p_i log2(p_i)

According to the text I am using, the entropy of a gaussian
distribution should be 

1/2 log2(2 pi e sigma^2)

so I am using this result to test my algorithm.  Unfortunately, I am
not getting the results to agree.

Can anyone tell me where I am going wrong?



from Numeric import searchsorted, concatenate, arange, nonzero, log, \
     sum, multiply, sort, greater, take, pi, exp

from MLab import diff, randn

def hist(y, bins):
    n = searchsorted(sort(y), bins)
    n = diff(concatenate([n, [len(y)]]))
    return n

# generate some gaussian numbers
mu = 0.0
sigma = 2.0
x = mu + sigma*randn(100000)

delta = 0.001
bins = arange(-12.0, 12.0, delta)

n = hist(x, bins)

ind = nonzero(greater(n, 0.0))
n = take(n, ind)         # get the positive
n = 1.0/len(n)*n         # norm for probability; is this the right normalization
#n = 1.0/len(bins)*n     # or this? or something else?

Scomputed = -1.0/log(2.0) * sum(multiply(n, log(n)))
Sanalytic = 0.5/log(2.0) * log(2*pi*exp(1.0)*sigma**2)
 
print Scomputed, Sanalytic



Thanks!
John Hunter



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 23:27:53 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:27:53 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <mailman.89.1080615582.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9@simonxp>
	<mailman.89.1080615582.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4at6b$5vr$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> p.s.; this is the last time I manually will remove a "nospam"
> email entry. Who should remove all the spam mailings, if people
> like you don't help with it? :-)

No need to CC me, I read the newsgroup and will read the message 
anyways. :)  Yeah, I may as well toss the nospam portion, that is why I 
have the bayesian filter.

I'm curious to know what what email/newsgroup client you are using, your 
email client does not seem to produce proper "References:" and 
"In-Reply-To:" headers, which breaks message threading.  The headers 
claim Mozilla, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

  - Josiah


From dietrich at zdome.net  Fri Mar  5 21:39:48 2004
From: dietrich at zdome.net (Dietrich Epp)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:39:48 -0800
Subject: Generating salt for crypt
In-Reply-To: <c24ljv$3rk$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c24ljv$3rk$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8903A714-6F17-11D8-B9D1-0003934ACDEC@zdome.net>

Salt is just two random characters from [./A-Za-z0-9], giving 4096 
possibilities.

from random import randint
import crypt
import string

salt_chars = './' + string.ascii_letters + string.digits

def crypt_password(password):
     salt = salt_chars[randint(0, 63)] + salt_chars[rand_int(0, 63)]
     return crypt(password, salt)

Ok, so the paranoids would point out that random.randint() might not be 
sufficiently random... but we don't need cryptographically strong 
random numbers.  No attack on crypt() depends on guessing the salt, the 
salt is in the output anyway.  [see for yourself... 
crypt.crypt('foobar','//') => '//f1Jm145Q9jA']

So to check a password you would...

def check_password(crypted_password, password):
     salt = crypted_password[:2]
     return crypt(password, salt) == crypted_password

If you're writing something new (i.e. you are not using existing 
password databases) then crypt() is a poor choice.  It's only available 
on Unix, and ignores characters past the first 8.  MD5 and SHA-1 are 
better choices, but you'll have to handle the salt yourself.

For example, you could do...

import sha

def crypt_password(username, password):
     return sha.sha('%i %s%i %s' % (len(username), username, 
len(password), password))

Putting the username with the password serves the same function as salt.

On Mar 3, 2004, at 5:12 AM, Florian Lindner wrote:

> Hello,
> what is the best way to generate a random salt for the crypt function?
> I'm rather a python newbie... ;-)
> Thx,
> Florian
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From bear at sonic.net  Fri Mar  5 07:06:04 2004
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:06:04 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <test@test.tk>

nobody wrote:
> 
> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
> asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
> of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
> this language.
> 

The solution to your problem is obvious.  Just treat Lisp like 
Chocolate; if you don't like it, you can't have any.

Followups set.

			Bear


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 00:10:00 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 21:10:00 -0800
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
References: <mailman.2.1078354064.772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30260531.0403032110.35425635@posting.google.com>

>From what I've seen, PostgreSQL is more widely supported than MySQL under Python.


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:08:51 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:08:51 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>

> Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate
prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?

I certain that it IS possible to add ANYTHING to Python.  My whole
motivation for Prothon was to start fresh with a clean slate and have less.
I'm still experimenting with things that can be removed.

I want to make it clear that I don't think Python is broken or needs
replacing.  Python is what it is.  I have no idea if Prothon will be around
in 10 years or not but I'm sure Python will still be around.

Having said that, I think there are things about Prothon that really kick
ass.  The combination of threaded interpreter with extremely simple locking
objects is exceeding my expectations.  This engine is really going to shine
when it matures.

"Harald Massa" <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134...
> Mark,
>
> I see most discussion about Prothon is concerning prototypes.
>
> Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate
> prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?
>
> I never had a problem to "add an attribute" to an existing object; I
really
> can't see why it should be more than some small hacks to allow "adding a
> function to an existing object".
>
>
> Harald




From news2 at mystrobl.de  Fri Mar  5 19:04:55 2004
From: news2 at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 01:04:55 +0100
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
	<jm3i40t9ogp42764pgtevceh89rpfkrnfc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <215i4058l3eejsaje3mrt4kecnvi0vhi49@4ax.com>

Wolfgang Strobl <news2 at mystrobl.de>:

> [...] But I can't do any harm, so why not just trying it.

Arg. But _it_ can't do any harm ...  It's getting late, sorry.

An afterthought: adding a <app>.manifest would make a nice addition to
py2exe.  I'd file a feature request on sourceforge, but, alas, it's
working in read only mode, currently, if it answers at all.


-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk  Thu Mar 18 12:09:13 2004
From: fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk (DomF)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:09:13 -0000
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<38ec68a6.0403171750.7a300cb2@posting.google.com>
	<40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079629638.19728.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>

> Indeed I have not. Probably because basic built-in strings form a type
> that's not a class and you can't inherit from it.
>
Mostly because I am interested in the counter argument:

class mynewstr(str):
...     pass
...
>>> s = mynewstr()
>>> dir(s)
<<list of str stuff>>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 12:49:35 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:49:35 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.230.1078936428.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-244424.09493510032004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.230.1078936428.19534.python-list at python.org>,
 gabor <gabor at z10n.net> wrote:
...
> i think the biggest problem with this exception-stuff is the naming.
> 
> the name 'exception' immediately means (for me at least) some kind of
> error condition.... 
> 
> maybe if they had a different name, it would be easier to use them also
> by non-error-conditions.

Perhaps, but my guess is that you can't win this way.  The word
in ordinary English does not mean error condition, it's simply
what does not follow the rule.  No problem for the present case,
where an early exit from a loop is a good fit.

Evidently the notion that it's an error, a catastrophe of some
dimension, must derive from its application in programming languages.
Either Python itself, or others (C++, for example.)  There's a
trend in this thread to blame the problem on C++ and Java, but
I think it's enough to program in Python for a while.  That will
expose you to a lot of situations where exceptions are used for
something you might see as an error - something really unplanned
for - and few if any calculated uses of an exception in ordinary
flow of control.

This issue is in our heads, not in the language.  In my opinion,
if we think less in terms of "error" vs. "not error", and more
in terms of the rules we apply to data and their possible exceptions,
we will have more insight into appropriate use of the feature.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 08:05:18 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 05:05:18 -0800
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<brg8c.18665$A_2.958214@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403250505.302c828b@posting.google.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message news:<brg8c.18665$A_2.958214 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> <ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi, all
> >
> >  I want to sort the list,the form of my list is
> >
> >   name_city_list=[['jack','new york'],['mac','london'],['alice','paris']]
> >
> > all inner list has same format i.e first is name and second is city.
> > now I want to sort it by the second element of the inner list(by city
>  name).
> >
> > i.e after sorting my list should be like this
> >
> >   name_city_list=[['mac','london'],['jack','new york'],['alice','paris']]
> >
> > how can I do this,
> >
> > any way out ?
> 
> name_city_list.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))

Hi,

This works !!! , thanks.
but I would like to know something that
i heard use of lambda function is not good !. So why it is not good,
or in when we should not use lambda function.

thank you again,


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar  1 11:24:11 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:24:11 -0600
Subject: Image width, height.
In-Reply-To: <cpafzcs366g.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<cpafzcs366g.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <16451.25515.549908.458781@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> Is there a Py module available using which I can find the width and
    >> height of any image format?

    Nelson> I'm not aware of one short of loading the whole image or
    Nelson> shelling out to another tool.

Can't PIL do this?

Skip



From pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 14:53:32 2004
From: pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com (o'seally)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 11:53:32 -0800
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
Message-ID: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>

solaris/linux admins/rookie_developers that battle with this error are
probably all frustrated when it happens. i bet you're also somehow
frustrated by this seemingly unsolvable error :-) ...take it easy,
it'll go away once u've learned how to play around with a few things
on your system and reorganised. i'm particulary a solaris junkie, but
linux is my admiration. the issue here is Not the OS/Software, but
rather the concept. first of all , i've learned that people who
normally hit this error are those that somehow DOWNLOADED some
packages (so-called free/open-source) from the internet with a hope of
using the package to solve some inhouse problem. normally the package
installs FINE but just when you try to run it... BOMB!! and then u
spend 5 days battling with it and NOTHING good comes out of it and
finally, you come here ...still frustrated :-(  chill ..it happened to
me plenty of times too. nuff said...

here's a typical extract of the ghost you've seen. you've probably
been battling with this for quite a while...
       ld.so.1: fatal 
       No such file or directory
       ImportError: ld.so.1

first you have to appreciate something about dynamic objects. dynamic
objects is a fancy term for programs that use DLLs (both windows and
unix programs can have DLLs). if you're Not familiar with dynamic
objects, then pls read section-3 which is right at the END of this
post. otherwise start with section-1 right here below...

section-1 (John Hunter's opinion)
#########################################################
This problem typically arises when the program was compiled and
installed in one environment and executed in another.  When it was
compiled, the compiler could find libgcc_s.so.1, but when it is
executed, the shared library is not in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
You probably do not need to recompile your program (unless it was
compiled on another system or with a cross compiler).  First try and
find the dir on your system in which libgcc_s.so.1 resides.  Three
suggestions:

If you have gnu findutils, just do 'locate libgcc_s.so.1'.  Otherwise,
try:
  # ldd /path/to/your_program
This will list the shared libraries that your_program needs and where
they are.  If you can't find it that way, try:

  # find /usr -name libgcc_s.so.1
       or
  # find /opt -name libgcc_s.so.1

you've GOT to finnd the missing file! if you still can't find it, I'll
guess that it's not on your system and your_program was compiled on
another machine.  If you do find it here's how to modify
LD_LIBRARY_PATH so you can see it when you execute your_program. 
Suppose you found it in /some/dir/lib

If you are a csh/tcsh user
  # setenv LD_LIBRARY_PATH /some/dir/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH

the line above is One long line, it's NOT two lines, it might be
wrapping on this newsgroup screen, so make sure you type it in as One
long line!..and also same applies to the other ones below.

If you are a bash/bourne/ksh user
  # export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/some/dir/lib

This command above should go in your rc file, eg, ~/.tcshrc, ~/.cshrc,
or ~/.bashrc, ~/.kshrc.  Now open up a new shell/xterm, and try typing
your_program again. just run it without any parameters.

If you are still having trouble, make sure that your environment
variable are set correctly with:

If you are a csh/tcsh user
   # setenv | grep LD |more

If you are a bash/bourne/ksh/zsh user
   # echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH

You should see the dirs you entered in for LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

Good luck,
John Hunter

section-2 (my opinion)
#########################################################
in addition to john's stuff above, there is a trick about unix's
symbolic links which i'm gonna base my opinion on. my opinion
therefore applies in the case where the xx.so.x file is actually THERE
on your system but the error still says that
'No such file or directory' even when LD_LIBRARY_PATH is properly set
and exported.

what you have to do is to run the ldd command again (as above in
john's post) and look carefully at what it reports. Not ALL of the
xx.so files should be reported problematic, ONLY SOME of them will be
reported as 'Not found'. now my opinion revolves around the idea of
finding the place/directory where the GOOD ones are sitting. once
you're in this directory, u can then make a symbolic link to the xx.so
that's giving you a problem. NB: the link must be in the
place/directory where the good xx.so files are sitting. this will fool
the OS/ld into thinking that your missing xx.so file is actually now
in the right place. NB: DON'T move your troublesome/missing xx.so file
into the place/directory where the good xx.so files are sitting
...just create a symbolic link in the good directory, the link will
just point to the troublesome/missing file whereever it is sitting.

let's say for instance that the '/etc/maria.so.1' file is giving you
trouble and is being reported as 'No such file found' and u've tried
everything such as setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH and you're tired. now let's
be explicit and say that you get the error when you run the 'python'
command. the command you're running does Not matter, it could be
'openssl' or 'samba' or 'ssh' or 'wget' or 'apache' or even 'java'
itself, the error is the most interesting thing here cuz it's likely
to always be the same (ld.so.1: fatal No such file or directory).
let's assume that u're running the 'python' command. what you would
then do is
   # ldd /full/path/to/python_binary
now observer carefuully what the ldd command above reports to you.
it'll show that SOME of the xx.so.x files are Not found. good. now
FORGET the missing one, now look at those that are OK. use the find
command to find onne/more of those ones that are OK, go to the
directory where you found one of them (let's say it's /usr/lib), once
you're there, create a symbolic link to your missing file
(/etc/maria.so.1). i hope you know where your missing xx.so file is
sitting (/etc/maria.so.1), cuz you've probably confirmed taht it DOES
EXIST indeed and you know exactly where it is. so create the link to
it as follows...
    # cd /usr/lib 
in this case above, /usr/lib is our directory with good xx.so files.
    # ln -s /etc/maria.so.1 maria.so.1
in this command above, it might be necessary to use FULL paths.

now make sure that your LD_LIBRARY_PATH is set properly and EXPORTED. 
now fire up your 'python' or 'samba' or 'apache' or whatever command
that complained about the missing xx.so.x.  what does it say NOW??

it might now complain about ANOTHER xx.so.x (Not the same one as the
first one anymore), well... i guess u've figured out how we've solved
the problem for the first one. do the same for the second one and the
third one and so on. just create a link for it in the directory with
good xx.so files just like the first one. repeat this process for all
your missing xx.so.x (as long as you know that you have them on your
system). yeah, that's all about my suggestion.

should my suggestion fail, well, then you have a lot to read about ld,
etc.   Listen, i know man pages are Not the most exciting thing to
read, but you have to read them with an open mind (Don't try to rush
into finding quick answers cuz that's gonna frustrate you more) ...
try section-3 below, but then you're on your own. i'm Not gonna
comment on anything about section-3 below. after you read, hopefully
something will click in your mind about what's happening on your
specific system.

as a semi-final Note: DONT clutter your system, when u make the links
above, do them one-by-one, DON'T use a shell script. DON'T create
links for any xx.so.x files that are NOT causing you trouble. a rule
of thumb is to always keep a text file (Notepad) so that you have a
log of ALL the links you've made cuz this process of creating symbolic
links for UNresolved xx.so.x files will have FUTURE consequences and
you DON'T wonna be caught by suprise in the future when something that
WAS working in the past is NO LONGER working ..while the new stuff is
WORKING just ok :-) it's therefore important to REMEMBER that you once
created an override link for a troublesome library file and this
override link could be the cause of trouble with something else in the
FUTURE, with a clear mindset (keeping logs of ALL previous/original
settings) you could easily reverse the system's config and walk away
clean. so it's important for you to be able to REVERT even when the
problem gets solved today and things seem to be working ok!!

as a final-FINAL Note: i'm not responsible for any files that get
deleted or that disappear from your system when you use my advice cuz
they way i see it, when u use my advice you're somehow
hacking/overriding your system's config. u do this solely at your own
discretion/risk. you came here without my invitation, and you're
reading this without my invitation either. i did Not send u this info
by email, etc. so just keep me out of it.


section-3 (general info on ld)
#########################################################
http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/cgi-bin/unixhelp/man-cgi?ld.so.1+1
http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/cgi-bin/man-cgi?ld.so.1+1
http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/man-cgi?ld.so.1+1

___________________________________________
Moses Motlhale - Solutions Architect
24th Century Solutions, South Africa.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar  7 01:08:18 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 06:08:18 GMT
Subject: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class
References: <c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4ldet.e7p.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1 at posting.google.com>, fossil_blue wrote:
> Why we can't define a list as a private variable in a class such as 
> 
> __SYMTAB = [ ]
> 
> class Myclass:
>       def __init__(self):
> 		#some constructor here
>      
>       def __PlayWithList(arg1):
> 	# This doesn't work it compains about not having not having attribute
> index or append
> 	# Why?
> 	try: self.__SYMTAB.index(arg1)  
> 	except ValueError: self.__SYMTAB.append(arg1)
>    
> But it the list was public SYMTAB = [ ] it would work. Why?

This obviously isn't the actual code that's giving you the problem.
It won't work in at least four ways, even before getting to problems
with "index or append":

1. The __init__ constructor doesn't have a body (just a "pass" statement
will do) so it will complain when you try to define __PlayWithList

2. __PlayWithList is a hidden name, and you haven't provided any way to
call it.

3. __PlayWithList doesn't have a self argument, it'll complain about
the number of parameters when you do call it

4. __SYMTAB isn't even part of Myclass, so it'll complain about not
having attribute self.__SYMTAB

Please post usable sample code.  I bet when you fix these, it'll work.

Joe


From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar  7 22:19:31 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:19:31 -0500
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-4C9E0A.22193107032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986 at posting.google.com>,
 kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) wrote:
> Here's an example of my current system: the Creature class requires a
> Race class and a World class to be instantiated, as the Creature's
> __init__ function relies on calling methods of these objects (not just
> on their presence). Sure, technically I could create dummy objects to
> pass in that have do-nothing functions, but then I break most of
> Creature's accessors, which are implemented in terms of delegating to
> the other objects. In turn this would make the tests meaningless.

OK, let's imagine you've got something like this:

class Creature:
   def __init__ (self, race, world):
      """A creature starts out with as many locally available
      weapons as he's got hands to hold them."""

      weapons = []
      for appendage in race.getAppendages ():
         if appendage.isPrehensile ():
            weapons.append (world.getWeapon ())

and you want to test the constructor.  Think about what could go wrong.  
Well, the most obvious thing is that you could have some kind of syntax 
or semantic error in your constructor code, so the first test I usually 
write for an object is just that I can create one.  It looks like to do 
that, you need three stub classes:

1) A Race class, which has a working getAppendages() method.

2) An Appendage class, which has a working isPrehensile() method.

3) A World class, with a working getWeapon() method.

At this point, I might decide that I want to push the isPrehensile() 
functionality down into the Race class, so I can rewrite my Creature 
constructor as:

class Creature:
   def __init__ (self, race, world):
      """A creature starts out with as many locally available
      weapons as he's got hands that can hold them."""

      weapons = []
      for appendage in race.getPrehensileAppendages ():
            weapons.append (world.getWeapon ())

On the surface, the reason I did this is because it made my testing 
easier (fewer stubs to write), but the positive side effect is it 
reduced the coupling between classes.  So, now I'll go ahead and write 
my stubs:

class RaceStub:
   def __init__ (self, appendages):
      self.appendages = appendages

   def getPrehensileAppendages (self):
      return self.appendages

class WorldStub:
    def getWeapon (self):
      return "roto-plooker"

These are pretty simplistic, but they're good enough to test the 
operation of my Creature constructor.  Now, I'll write the unit tests 
(leaving out some boilerplate):

def setUp (self):
   protoElephant = RaceStub (["arm1", "arm2", "proboscus"])
   ameboid = RaceStub ([])
   world = WorldStub ()
   self.creature1 = Creature (protoElephant, world)
   self.creature2 = Creature (ameboid, world)

def testCreation (self):
   self.assertEquals (len (self.creature1.weapons, 3))
   self.assertEquals (len (self.creature2.weapons, 0))

It doesn't seem like I've done much, but in fact I've done quite a lot.  
I've proven that I can create a Creature, and explored one of the 
possible corner cases, that of a race which doesn't have any hands in 
which to hold weapons.

In fact, when I run the tests, what I'll really discover is that I've 
got a logic error in my constructor; where I wrote "weapons", I should 
have written "self.weapons".  I did this on purpose to illustrate a 
point.  As written above, the constructor executes without any errors, 
and leaves a defective object which the unit test code catches.

Now, you may complain, I've written more lines of test code than of 
production code.  Yeah, sometimes that happens.  But the test code is 
usually pretty quick to write (especially if your classes are well 
designed), and the payback in the long run is worth it.

The next evolutionary step is "test first", but I'll leave that for 
another post.


From john.burton at jbmail.com  Mon Mar  8 03:51:38 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:51:38 +0000
Subject: Socket Receive Buffer
In-Reply-To: <f8a2c52d.0403070941.2fd4c7c7@posting.google.com>
References: <f8a2c52d.0403070941.2fd4c7c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404c3419$0$63629$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

christofer wrote:

> I am writing a small IRC type server. I also have a small test client
> for obvious reasons. My problem is that when receiving input from the
> server, my client sometimes ends up with two messages in the same
> input buffer, which obviously causes problems. Anybody know why it is
> doing this?

It's the way that sockets work.
They are just a stream of bytes.
You *might* read the whole message you sent in one go, or you might get 
60% of the message in one read and 40% in the next, or you might be two 
messages together, or any other cominbation.

Often you'll get each message seperately when testing on a low load 
local network but get different results over the internet.

You need to find the end of the messages yourself, and remember that a 
single read might not return the whole of the messasge.

Yes it's a pain but that's how it works.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  9 11:45:58 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 16:45:58 GMT
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <104q5jpg86q2udf@corp.supernews.com>
	<2004030819064420092%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <c2ksc5$1uonf0$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Simon Willison <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
> On 2004-03-08 18:57:29 -0600, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) said:
> 
> > In article <2004030818081575249%cs1spw at bathacuk>, Simon Willison
> > <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >On 2004-03-08 16:42:57 -0600, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org>
> > >said:
> > >>     Install Mailman and make the list postable only by you.  :P
> > >
> > >We've already looked at mailman and a number of other packages.
> > >None of them fit our requirements as we need to be able to tie the
> > >list administration in to our existing user authentication / admin
> > >control panel, plus we want to tie the email lists to our
> > >membership databases.  We've got most of the other infrastructure
> > >already, we just need an efficient way of sending out bulk emails
> > >to a large list of addresses.  .  Give us a notion of scope.  Does
> > >"large list" mean to you a thousand?  Hundred thousand?  Ten
> > >million?  How often are you sending out e-mail?
> 
> Our largest list at the moment is 4,000 addresses. The business we are
> in (local online newspaper) means we are very unlikely to ever have
> more than 10,000. The answer certainly relates to sendmail, but I'm
> interested in any experience other people may have with this kind of
> task. At the moment I'm looking at using smtplib and just cycling
> through calling smtp.send() once for every address but I'm not
> confident that that this is a particularly efficient method. If
> there's a better option I'd love to hear about it.

No, no!  As Cameron Laird said, this is more of Sendmail (MTA) issue
than Python.  You could loop for each address, but no self-respecting
Linux guy (much less a Slacker) would do that.  Standard way to send to
list of recipients is

    - edit /etc/aliases,
	abc: :include:/etc/list.abc

    - edit /etc/list.abc,
	user1 at xxx.com
	user2 at yyy.com
	viagra at microsoft.com
	jailbait at martha.com
	...

    - restart sendmail,
	newaliases

Then, send email to 'abc' account like other user account.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar  6 13:48:15 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:48:15 +0100
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c2d6dg$gv6$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Brett wrote:

> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)
> 
> (1) deeply nested loops

class BeamMeUpScotty(Exception):
    pass

try:
    for i in range(10):
        for k in range(10):
            for n in range(10):
                if i == k == n == 2:
                    raise BeamMeUpScotty
except BeamMeUpScotty:
    pass

print (i, k, n)

Ok, I'm only kidding, here's the real thing:

def beamMeUp():
    for i in range(10):
        for k in range(10):
            for n in range(10):
                if i == k == n == 2:
                    return i, k, n

print beamMeUp()

> and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> 
> BEGIN:
> for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;

while 1:
    for i in range(10):
        print i,
        if i == 5 and raw_input("restart?") != "no":
            break
    else:
        break


Can't remember having done that in my code, though. If the need arises I'd
probably go with the function approach again. To me goto seems much like a
speed hack that is fine in, say, the kernel code, but by no means in a
scripting language.

Peter



From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 20 06:59:48 2004
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 03:59:48 -0800
Subject: \r\n problem in cgi module?
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0403200359.4a11f60c@posting.google.com>

I'm wrote a cgi script which saves some data in a file, which is
POSTed from a HTML page.

The HTML page includes:

<textarea name="text" cols="80" rows="5"></textarea>

Then I extract the "text" as such:

f=cgi.FieldStorage()
text=f['text'].value

The surprise is "text" contains "\r\n" instead of "\n", when running
on windows.

Why does this happen, and what am I supposed to do? Isn't cgi module
supposed to provide "universal_new_line"?


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Mar 30 02:29:34 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:29:34 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F89@opus.amorhq.net>

Christian Tismer wrote:
> >>Robert Brewer wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different 
> >>>approaches
> >>>for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly 
> >>>faster, but I get
> >>>Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any 
> > But I don't see how your solution avoids the problem, 
> however (some code
> > snipped):
> > 
> >     def process_duplicates(self):
> >         for i in range(len(self.files)):
> >             seen = {}
> >             has = seen.has_key
> >             for k in range(self.flushes):
> >                 bin = pickle.load(self.files[i])
> >                 for key, value in bin:
> >                     if has(key):
> >                         self.duplicates += 1
> >                     else:
> >                         seen[key] = value
> 
> Just try it, it works!
>
> [discussion of hashing snipped]

Thanks again. Really, thanks!

However, I think you're letting the arrow fly before you've seen the
target. I understand hashing and making a bucket for each possible first
character (I should have read your code more thoroughly). That is a fine
technique, and it was already on my short list of workarounds. However,
your _complete_ solution isn't feasible for my dataset, because I'm
comparing some fields within each record, not entire records. For
example, with rows like:

"Michael","Kemperson","26002","me at aol.com","64.12.104.18"
"Ryan","Thomas","46723","myfriend at yahoo.com","209.244.21.23"
"Vicki","Thomas","46723","myfriend at yahoo.com","209.244.21.23"
"Shanuana","Hedlund","10415","andi at yahoo.com","122.150.184.175"

...I need to keep Ryan and dump Vicki, based on shared email and IP, but
*not* on the other fields. If Vicki had the same email but a different
IP, don't drop that record, but blank out the 2nd phone number. In
addition, most but not all files have phone numbers, which get the same
treatment. That's why I said I have three dicts/indexes.

No, don't rewrite it! :D I have even *more* requirements, which are
mostly in my code but not really documented, and some are changing. I'm
working on a more scalable solution, since I then need to apply the same
code to a 20-million-record DB. I'm doing fine--just wondered in
particular about ways to optimize that single step. Thanks for your
help.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Mar  1 16:18:09 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:18:09 GMT
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

beliavsky at aol.com:

> As others pointed out, your programs mostly test the speed of I/O.
> Here is a simple comparison of the speed of integer arithmetic using
> Python and Fortran 95 (Compaq Visual Fortran 6.6, with full
> optimization).

   It actually compares the speed of integers large enough to need 64 bits
of precision where Fortran can use a 64 bit integer and Python uses an
unbounded integer. The test can be sped up in two ways, first by using
floating point (which is fixed length in Python) and by using Psyco. On my
machine:

Original test: 245 seconds
Using floats: 148 seconds
Using psyco with integers: 69 seconds
Using psyco with floats: 18.4 seconds

   Therfore gaining a speed up of 13 times. This leads to Fortran likely
remaining 22 times faster.

from psyco.classes import *
import psyco

def xx():
    i = 1.0
    j = 0.0
    while i < 100000000.0:
       j = j + i
       i = i + 1
    print int(j)

psyco.profile()

xx()

   Neil




From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Tue Mar 30 08:44:28 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:44:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>

(Hmm, this might appear as a double posting, but I don't think my last one
made it through.)

Thanks, but.

("One approach to discussing and comparing AI
problem solving strategies is to categorize them using the
terms ''strong'' and ''weak'' methods. Generally, a weak
method is one which has the property of wide applicability
but, because it makes few assumptions about the problem
domain, can suffer from combinatorially explosive
solution costs when scaling up to larger problems. State
space search algorithms and random search are familiar
examples of weak methods."

Using Genetic Algorithms to Solve NP-Complete Problems
Kenneth A. De Jong
George Mason University
KDEJONG at GMUVAX2.GMU.EDU <mailto:KDEJONG at GMUVAX2.GMU.EDU>

William M. Spears
Navy Center for Applied Research in AI
Navy Center for Applied Research in AI
SPEARS at AIC.NRL.NAVY.MIL <mailto:SPEARS at AIC.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
<http://hive.cs.uwyo.edu/~wspears/papers/icga89.pdf>)

>From this, and other reading on genetic algorithms, I've found that nearly
all of the applications being developed and used are far 'stronger' than
what I have in mind. Most critically, the great preponderance of uses
involve a program that simply modulates a set of given variables in search
for an answer, rather than modifying the source code itself. Understandably,
this is because, as stated above, such 'weak' methods are of limited use for
most problems (I wouldn't want to fly in a plane that had been designed by
one).

Since, at the moment, I'm more interested in a 'pet cyber slime' than a tool
for designing efficient circuit layouts, such 'strong' applications are of
limited use. Even the 'state space' and 'random search' examples above are
considerably 'stronger' than I would desire to use.
For me, the goal is not only to create a program that can find an optimal
solution to a problem, but which can also find better ways of learning -
something disallowed by a fixed-algorithm engine.

Your pointer did lead me to consider a couple of aditional factors in my
design - the incoporation of a 'breeding' mechanism to allow files in a
population to share information, and a formalised chromosome stucture, to
increase the probability that mutations will produce sensible effect, and to
facilitate breeding:

(The process of species changing over time to become better at survival
within the environment is called evolution. One advance that it produced was
a new method of reproduction. Cells began to carry some of their genes in
rings called plasmids. During meetings between individual they could
exchange bundles, passing the environmental knowledge embedded within the
plasmid from individual to individual. Successful plasmids spread amongst
the population but unsuccessful plasmids encumbered their carrier who would
die sooner and have less chance to spread the bad genes. Greater benefits
came when certain genes came together that worked better in combination than
in isolation. The likelihood of random mutation equipping one cell with both
genes is low but with the crossover of genes between individuals these
traits can arise separately and, once they become common in the population,
join together within one individual.

Genetic Algorithms
Nature's Genetics
Matthew Caryl
<http://www.permutationcity.co.uk/projects/mutants/geneticalgorithms.html>)

There's a lot of other interesting stuff on this site, but it'll take a
while to examine it all, and it'll be quite a while more before I have the
time to start on Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science". One question
though - can I, indeed, create, modify, run and save files using just a
python script?

Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:c4aeq8$92a$1 at hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hello, I'm Peter, and I'm very much a newbie.
>
> New in the sense of being a novice at everything to do with programming,
> rather than just new to Python, so please be very explicit in your replies
> (should you deem me worth of such attention).  I've long had a passing
> interest in programming from a macro-conceptual level, but only very
> recently have I tried to learn the details of how to impliment my ideas in
> code.  Since I'm so inexperienced and learning soley from on-line
> documentation in my sparse spare time, I'm finding the learning curve
rather
> steep, and would appreciate it if you didn't assume that I 'know' anything
> (especially with formating issues).
>
> What instigated my uptake of programming was a recently sparked, and
rapidly
> growing interest in emergent processes, and particularly of computer
> applications for them.  I've not covered more than 20 hours of good study
on
> the subject (accounting for liberal procrastination), but I like to jump
in
> the deep end with things, and the logic of emergence really 'clicks' with
my
> brain.  I have, however covered biological evolution in considerably more
> depth, so I'm already quite familiar with the concepts involved.
>
> What I've been trying to do with Python is to set up something resembling
> John Von Neumann's conception of an imperfectly self-replicating program:
>
> (3.2.1 Self-Reproduction
> Nearly all of the practical implementations of arti cial worlds to be
> described are related
> in some way to the seminal work of John von Neumann. In the late 1940s and
> early
> 1950s, he devoted considerable time to the question of how complicated
> machines could
> evolve from simple machines.9 Speci cally, he wished to develop a formal
> description of
> a system that could support self-reproducing machines which were robust in
> the sense
> that they could withstand some types of mutation and pass these mutations
on
> to their
> o spring. Such machines could therefore participate in a process of
> evolution.
> Inspired by Alan Turing's earlier work on universal computing machines
> [Turing 36],
> von Neumann devised an architecture which could ful l these requirements.
> The ma-
> chine he envisaged was composed of three subcomponents [von Neumann 66]:
> 1. A general constructive machine, A, which could read a description (X)
of
> an-
> other machine, X, and build a copy of X from this description:
> A + (X) ; X (3.1)
> (where + indicates a single machine composed of the components to the left
> and
> right suitably arranged, and ; indicates a process of construction.)
> 2. A general copying machine, B, which could copy the instruction tape:
> B + (X) ; (X) (3.2)
> 9 Von Neumann had diculties in de ning precisely what the term
> `complicated' meant. He said \I
> am not thinking about how involved the object is, but how involved its
> purposive operations are.
> In this sense, an object is of the highest degree of complexity if it can
do
> very dicult and involved
> things." [von Neumann 66].
> 3.2. PREVIOUS WORK 47
> 3. A control machine, C, which, when combined with A and B, would rst
> activate
> B, then A, then link X to (X) and cut them loose from (A + B + C):
> A + B + C + (X) ; X + (X) (3.3)
> Now, if we choose X to be (A + B + C), then the end result is:
> A + B + C + (A + B + C) ; A + B + C + (A + B + C) (3.4)
> This complete machine plus tape, [A + B + C + (A + B + C)], is therefore
> self-
> reproducing. From the point of view of the evolvability of this
> architecture, the crucial
> feature is that we can add the description of an arbitrary additional
> automaton D to
> the input tape. This gives us:
> A + B + C + (A + B + C + D) ; A + B + C +D + (A + B + C + D) (3.5)
> Furthermore, notice that if the input tape (A + B + C +D) is mutated in
> such a
> way that the description of automaton D is changed, but that of A, B and C
> are
> una ected|that is, the mutated tape is (A + B + C +D0)|then the result of
> the
> construction will be:
> A + B + C+ D + (A + B + C + D) mutation
> ; A + B + C + D0 + (A + B + C+ D0)
> (3.6)
> The reproductive capability of the architecture is therefore robust to
some
> mutations
> (speci cally, those mutations which only a ect the description of D), so
the
> machines
> are able to evolve. Von Neumann pointed out that it was the action of the
> general copy-
> ing automaton, B, which gave his architecture the capacity for evolving
> machines of
> increased complexity, because B is able to copy the description of any
> machine, no mat-
> ter how complicated [von Neumann 66] (p.121). This ability is clearly
> demonstrated in
> Equation 3.5 above.
>
> From Artificial Evolution to Artificial Life
> Timothy John Taylor
> Ph.D
> University of Edinburgh
> 1999)
>
> -The formatting on the equations is a bit messed up, but I hope you get
the
> idea.
>
> Although the concept is quite straight forward, and I have my own ideas
> about what specific features I'd like to include, I'm usure as to how to
> implement it at the level of coding.  Basically, I wish to create:
> 1.  An entirely human-designed evolutionary engine.
> 2.  A file that it '1' will acess, modify, test against a goal to retrive
a
> score, then save with the modifications intact and ready for the next run
or
> loop-cycle.
> 3.  A buffer that will store a population of these files.
> 4.  A death engine that will remove low scoring files (probably as a part
of
> '1')
>
> These concepts aren't new, and are already well publicised.  Variants of
> them are used for determining coefficient values for engeneering, medical
> etc research, but I wish to create a program that's more open ended than a
> number-finder.  The Neumann model is incomplete, since it not only fails
to
> specify a method for mutation beyond the vague decription given, but also
> fails to account for the vanishingly small chance that completely random
> mutation of a program would produce any intelligible results relative to
the
> processor's capacity for run cycles (overlooked, perhaps, because of an
> over-riding focus on making the evolutionary engine robust to mutation).
To
> solve this, I propose an 'incubator' approach, where the engine would, as
> part of its evolutionary toolkit, and particularly at the beginnng of the
> process before the code becomes complex enough to allow the likelyhood of
> non-fatal mutations, scavange code from external sources.
>
> Regardless of any issues of copyright etc, this has the advantage of
basing
> the now-less random mutations on code that is known to be operable, rather
> than the infinite monkies approach of random alphanumeric generation.  To
> incorporate this and other revisions and refinements that I've just
spotted,
> the program structure would look like so:
>
> An entirely human-designed evolutionary engine, which:
> 1.  Allows the user to set a goal.
> 2.  Takes random sections of code from a library.
> 3.  Places them in a text file.
> 4.  Applies a 'scatter shot' of random alphanumeric changes (with either a
> random or a user specified % of alpahnumerals changed)
> 5.  Runs the file.
> 6.  Scores the file on how many valid lines it has, if it fufilled the
goal,
> how long it took, etc.
> 7.  Saves the score to the file (in the title?).
> 8.  Repeats for a user specified number of times.
> 9.  Selects the best programs, deletes the rest
> 10.  Returns to '3' and repeats until stopped.
>
> At the moment, I'm not even sure if python can create, chop and change
> files, so that the effects of a program being run can persist after it's
> closed down.  The library modules are still largely incomprehensible to
me,
> both in their function and their implementation.  I'm a very long way from
> understanding how to apply the randomised aspects of the file changes, or
> much else for that matter, and I can already see a bunch of things that
> would need a lot of tweaking, even if the structure is sound (this is the
> first proper program I've planned, which I'm sure means that the structure
> is almost certaintly gibberish).
>
> Other things that would be handy:
>
> A bit to make sensible sections of code less vunerable to mutation, and
> concentrate changes in 'junk' areas.
>
> Something to decrease or prevent the addition of scavanged code when the
> proportion of scavanged code to random alphanumeric changes and working
> code, or vice versa (with working code forming the fulcrum of the
dynamic).
>
> A 'skills' counter/protector, that would allow files to retain redundant
> code if their goal was changed, rather than necessarily losing it to the
> pressure of clock cycles and the equivalent of genetic drift.  (For this,
> the 'bastion' module looks like it might be useful, though I'm not
terribly
> sure about how it works, or 'exactly' what it does)
>
> An random goal changer, to provide an impetus for constant evolution
without
> the need for user input. (There's only so good you can be at any one
thing)
>
> An option to give the files an internal copy of the evolution engine,
which
> could then be modified by itself as it alters the entire file.  (This may
> prove difficult, as although this would allow the files to develop more
> efficient strategies for the process of evolution itself, it would make
them
> more vunerable to fatal mutations.  A possible solution would be to have a
> 'nuclear membrane' - a guard to prevent mutations that are particularly
> likely to be fatal eg. mutations that alter significant chunks of the
> engine.  It would also be possible to have multiple engines in each cell,
> which could self-assess and compare scores, replacing engines that
> underperform through damage or 'under-evolution' (radiation resistant
> bacteria use a similar technique)
>
>
> ==================
> All of this seems like a rather tall order, especially as I'm still
> struggling with some of the things from the beginners guide.  Although I
> should probably buy a book and work my way through lots of examples of
> increasing complexity, I like to tackle things head-on and learn as I go.
> Even just writing this message has helped me to clarify to myself what it
is
> I want to do.
>
> If anybody has even bothered to read this far, I'd ask you please to give
> some thought to these ideas (of myself and others), and perhaps to give me
> some pointers in the right direction.  Thankyou.
>
>




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar 13 01:44:37 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:44:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <c2sbkd$ik7$2@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <20040313064437.46889.qmail@web8302.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote: >
Peter Maas schrieb:
> > class doesTypeChecking:
>  >     def __init__self():
> 
> Correction:
>      def __init__(self):
> 
> --
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen,
> Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
> Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail
> peter.maas at mplusr.de
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Ha...you shouldn't mind that...folks will get it.

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From ark at acm.org  Sat Mar  6 13:30:57 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:30:57 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <BNo2c.80232$aH3.2452500@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

> What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without
a
> 'goto' command?

How about showing us an actual piece of code in which you consider the lack
of a 'goto' to be a significant inconvenience?




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 17:23:24 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:23:24 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.17.1080508539.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106ek4rmpnak1bd@news.supernews.com>


"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.17.1080508539.20120.python-list at python.org...
>
> "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
> news:7vD9c.318$1A6.114130 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Here's a breakdown of most of the syntax discussed re: PEP318 using an
> > example from python-dev. There are probably several more (I've added
> [10]).
> > The example applies both function decoration and annotation.
>
> Let me add two more based on a proposal I just posted to PyDev.
>
> > # [5] function attribute dictionary
> > def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
> >         {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
> >          url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"}
> >         "doc string"
> >         body
>
>
> # [5B]
> def f(self)::
>     "doc string"
>     publish_to_web(foo)
>     {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
>       url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"}
>     :
>     body
>
> > # [6]  @function_attribute = ...
> > def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
> >         @spark_rule="DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
> >         @url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
> >         "doc string"
> >         body
>
> # [6B]
> def foo(self)::
>     "doc string"
>     publish_to_web(foo)
>     spark_rule="DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
>     url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
>     :
>     body
>
> > # [7] :function_attribute:...
> > def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
> >         :spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
> >         :url:"/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
> >         "doc string"
> >         body
>
> #[7B] identical to [6B]
>
> The essential idea is that definition-time code should be strictly
> separated from run-time code with ':'.  If so, no new syntax is
*necessary*
> (though some can be considered).  Assignments in the def-block would be
> interpreted much like in class bodies (which are also executed at def
> time).

Now, that's an interesting thought that I didn't get out of the discussion.

John Roth
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>
>
>




From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Tue Mar  2 10:26:35 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:26:35 +0100 
Subject: Binaries for Swish-E and Python 2.3 for Windows
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F006603D79@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

I've seen this as well, but this application uses the command line versions
of Swish-E to do the searching. I don't really like going that way, since
I'm using this together with a Twisted WebServer on Windows, and running the
command line applications might be a real overkill under heavy load.
 
pieter

Creo 
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com 

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm) 

 

  _____  

From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Nick Carter
Sent: 02 March 2004 12:09
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Binaries for Swish-E and Python 2.3 for Windows


Pieter,
 
Try here: http://lorrain.ca/foss/ <http://lorrain.ca/foss/> 
 
Nick

"Pieter Claerhout" <Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com
<mailto:Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com> > wrote in message
news:mailman.15.1078215556.12614.python-list at python.org
<news:mailman.15.1078215556.12614.python-list at python.org> ...

Hi all, 

does anyone has a precompiled version for Python 2.3 on Windows for the
following library: 

 <http://jibe.freeshell.org/bits/SwishE/>
http://jibe.freeshell.org/bits/SwishE/ 

I'm trying to access a Swish-E database from Python, but I don't have access
to a compiler unfortunately. 

Cheers, 


pieter 

Creo 
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com 

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm) 

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From james.kew at btinternet.com  Mon Mar  1 15:16:16 2004
From: james.kew at btinternet.com (James Kew)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:16:16 -0000
Subject: detecting the operating system
References: <c1mtcj$ofv$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<mailman.253.1078007663.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<c1r7i8$1m2nfp$1@ID-71831.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c1thq4$129$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c205kj$1mj5bq$1@ID-71831.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c1thq4$129$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
> > os.path.expanduser("~") ?
>
> Doesn't work for all platforms.  Occasionally in windows that will
> expand to %USERPROFILE%, which you then have to resolve with os.getenv.

I'm also told (in email) it doesn't work under Win98.

Which is a shame, 'cause it's quite handy...

James




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Mar  9 01:04:37 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:04:37 +0200
Subject: How to send event to another window in wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <c2jfd7$hbu$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <c2jfd7$hbu$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <404D5E75.1010108@zoran.com>

Hello J.R.,

> A parent window (wxFrame object), which has the reference to its child
> window(also wxFrame object).
> I want to send event or message to the child window from the parent window,
> just like simulating the mouse
> or keyboard activities on child window. How to implement it?
Have a look at the `threads' program in the wx demo and in newevent.py 
in the wx library.

HTH.
Miki


From eric at zomething.com  Tue Mar 23 10:29:55 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:29:55 -0800
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
Message-ID: <20040323072955.2051009851.eric@zomething.com>

Robert wrote:
 
> These numbers a going to cause substantial server cost. Why does "The Python
> Robot" need to scan my pages 20 times a day? How can I cool down this
> special bot a little bit ( robots.txt ? )


If whomever is running that reads your message, perhaps they can contact you directly to work out how not to tax your site.

I assume "The Python Robot" is the User Agent.  If that bot is written to follow a robots.txt directive, it should work to amend your robots.txt file to disallow it.  However, your server should also be able to deny it access, if you need to go that approach.  I seem to recall that is not too hard with Apache; if you are on Apache I think you can find the info you need sopmewhere around here:  http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_setenvif.html#browsermatch

Eric Pederson



From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Thu Mar 11 09:28:28 2004
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 09:28:28 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3ad2nh303.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> Sorry if my intentions weren't clear in my original post.

If your intention wasn't humour, then yes, it was not clear. I
seriously thought you were joking.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 11 10:08:37 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:08:37 +0100
Subject: Using Pythonwin to poke at Windows apps?
References: <44254d3d.0403090600.3b14d84c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.177.1078844655.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<44254d3d.0403110526.68157d29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vflbh156.fsf@python.net>

Henrik.Weber at sdm.de (Henrik Weber) writes:

> Now I've tried this with ctypes:
>
> from ctypes import *
> import win32ui, win32con
>
> e = win32ui.FindWindow("ExploreWClass", None)
> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(e, None, "WorkerW", None)
> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ReBarWindow32", None)
> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, t, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
>
> class TBBUTTON(Structure):
>     _fields_ = (("iBitmap", c_int),
>                 ("idCommand", c_int),
>                 ("fsState", c_byte),
>                 ("fsStyle", c_byte),
>                 ("bReserved", c_byte * 2),
>                 ("dwData", POINTER(c_long)),
>                 ("iString", c_char_p))
>
> b = TBBUTTON()
> f = windll.user32.SendMessageA
> TB_GETBUTTON = win32con.WM_USER + 23
> print f(t.GetSafeHwnd(), TB_GETBUTTON, 0, byref(b))
>
>
> When I run it the first time I get a return value 1. However the
> TBBUTTON structure contains mostly zeroes. Running it again crashes
> the Explorer. Even if I open another Explorer the script will crash it
> with every subsequent execution until the machine is rebooted.

I had to change the first FindWindow call to this:
  e = win32ui.FindWindow("CabinetWClass", None)
and then it finds an instance of the normal Windows Explorer, on XP pro.

You are correct that the TBBUTTON instance contains all zeros, but it
doesn't crash for me.  Of course I'm not running a released version of
ctypes, instead a patched cvs version.

I cannot see anything that is wrong, it seems that the SendMessage call
doesn't change anything in the TBBUTTON instance.  Can it be that some
messages are not valid over process boundaries?

Thomas




From sdfATexpertuneDOTcom  Wed Mar  3 11:34:28 2004
From: sdfATexpertuneDOTcom (Scott F)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:34:28 -0000
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<c24cb3$1oj5g2$1@ID-112871.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c24vco$9ro$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns94A16B9186C04sdfexpertunecom@216.168.3.44>

fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles) wrote in news:c24vco$9ro$1
@nntp6.u.washington.edu:

> 
> Now if I could only get vim to highlight paren/bracket/curly-bracket
> completion as it does when editing shell scripts!

try
    	:set showmatch
or
    	:set sm

Scott


From dgmartin98.REMOVEME at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 26 14:30:14 2004
From: dgmartin98.REMOVEME at hotmail.com (D Martin)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:30:14 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>


3 solutions:

1. Use spaces instead of tabs.  Hit the space bar yourself, or an editor
that replaces tabs with spaces.
2. Include as a .py or text file instead of inline.
3. Get a different email program.



"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:1068up4kn49778 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> news:p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si at 4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000, Peter Hickman
> > <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like'
> > >language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
> > >
> > >Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what
> > >makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define
> > >scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being
borrowed
> > >from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.
> >
> > Very interesting ...
>
> Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
> tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
> a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
> Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
> lines, thus destroying the indentation.
>
> An interesting language that has just dropped off of
> my radar screen as being unusable in my environment.
>
> John Roth
>
>




From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Mar 11 06:33:43 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:33:43 +0100
Subject: Creating frames in threads
References: <404fa386$1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2pibn$e47$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bob Greschke wrote:
> I have a program that creates one or more frames with
> 
>    TF = TopLevel(Root)
> 
> talks to some equipment, calculates some stuff, draws a graph on a canvas in
> the frame, then exits.  The frame/s goes with the thread and disappears when
> the thread is finished -- which I guess makes sense.  Is there a way to keep
> those frames around after the thread is gone?

Do you mean that the "frame" (I'd call it a window, but nevermind...) is created 
by the thread? If it is, please be aware that there are some issues regarding 
Tkinter and threads. To keep it simple, it is better to leave all Tkinter 
related stuff in one thread (the main thread is a good candidate) and to 
communicate via this thread via Tkinter events using the event_generate method 
and Queue(s). You're for the moment in a situation where accessing Tkinter from 
multiple threads seems to work, but you may get stuck in the future.

For your particular problem, I'd create the frames outside of the thread and use 
event_generate and a Queue to pass the information to display to the main 
thread, which would actually display it on the Canvas. This will make the design 
heavier, but you'll be sure that you won't have any problem in the future.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Mar 30 07:55:35 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:55:35 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <qn9ac.68925$cx5.22050@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<30985729.0403291959.2dafe546@posting.google.com>
	<qn9ac.68925$cx5.22050@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040330125535.GA27344@nl.linux.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> > --Take advantage of iterators early on for return values to avoid
> > things like having both dict.items() and dict.iteritems().
> 
> Interestiong idea.  Generators are fully supported so I could do this now.
> So gens would have to be allowed absolutely everywhere lists are allowed (is
> trhis possible?).  Or are you thinking the user should type
> List(dict.items()) ?

If it would be a list, yes, or maybe even dict.items().aslist() or
similar. This because it is quite random for keys to be a list: it could
be a set. This has the advantage that one can do as in Ruby:
myobj.methods() - parent.methods(). But I'm not sure whether parent.methods()
is applicable to a prototype-based language.

> > --Functions that return multiple, but unique, values should return a
> > set, not a list, to communicate same (ex: dict.keys(), dir(), etc.).
> 
> Also cool.

It also applies to dict.items(). This could be either a generator or a
Set. 

> > --Dict should inherit from Set.
> 
> Also cool (I feel like the credits of Holy Grail saying Also wik).

I have read (in c.l.py) that in Smalltalk, a Dict is a Set of Associates
or something similar. I don't know Smalltalk, but I like this idea of a
Set.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:25 UTC:
	15.0?C   wind 5.4 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature



From jon_couchman at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 04:56:54 2004
From: jon_couchman at hotmail.com (jon c)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:56:54 +0000
Subject: is perl better?
Message-ID: <Law11-F41v5voYf1DA800032b5a@hotmail.com>

oh yeah.

to answer my initial question.

how stupid could i be to suggest perl is better than python

PYTHON is the best (and perl STINKS!)

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger




From amy-g-art at cox.net  Thu Mar 25 01:33:54 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:33:54 -0800
Subject: Mod_python
References: <qDp8c.41418$Bg.9880@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <m3v8c.42177$Bg.17925@fed1read03>

I got this working by adding the following to my environment

LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libc_r.so
export LD_PRELOAD


So I can now restart apache and everything seems to work.  Except my python
files still show up as text in the browser window.

Help, please.

"Amy G" <amy-g-art at cox.net> wrote in message
news:qDp8c.41418$Bg.9880 at fed1read03...
> I posted yesterday asking about python cgi and how to implement it.
>
> In a reply I was advised to use mod_python instead.
>
> I am using Apache 1.3.7.
>
> I downloaded both mod_pyton-2.7.10 and 2.7.9.
>
> I configured and ran make mso, make install on both with the same result.
>
> After adding the required lines to my httpd.conf and restarting apache I
get
> the following error.
>
> Syntax error on line 237 of /usr/local/etc/apache/httpd.conf:
> Cannot load /usr/local/libexec/apache/mod_python.so into server:
> /usr/local/libexec/apache/mod_python.so: Undefined symbol "pthread_create"
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>




From mw at csi.hu  Tue Mar 16 16:09:37 2004
From: mw at csi.hu (mw at csi.hu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:09:37 -0600
Subject: publicfile's ftpd and urllib2
Message-ID: <20040316210937.GA4800@csi.hu>

Hi,

I get an error when trying to use urllib2 with the ftp daemon of
publicfile:

$ python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Oct 15 2003, 23:33:35) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030930 (Red Hat Linux 3.3.1-6)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import ftplib
>>> ftplib.FTP.debugging = 1
>>> import urllib2
>>> urllib2.urlopen("ftp://moni.msci.memphis.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386/os/headers/header.info")
*resp* '220 Features: a p .'
*cmd* 'USER anonymous'
*resp* "230 Hi. No need to log in; I'm an anonymous ftp server."
*cmd* 'CWD pub'
*resp* '250 "/pub" '
*cmd* 'CWD fedora'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora" '
*cmd* 'CWD linux'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora/linux" '
*cmd* 'CWD core'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora/linux/core" '
*cmd* 'CWD 1'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora/linux/core/1" '
*cmd* 'CWD i386'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386" '
*cmd* 'CWD os'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386/os" '
*cmd* 'CWD headers'
*resp* '250 "/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386/os/headers" '
*cmd* 'TYPE I'
*resp* '200 Okay, using binary.'
*cmd* 'TYPE A'
*resp* '200 Why are you using ASCII?'
*cmd* 'PASV'
*resp* '227 =141,225,11,87,234,114'
*cmd* 'NLST header.info'
*resp* '150 Waiting for transfer connection...'
*resp* '426 Transmission failure: not a directory'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 138, in urlopen
    return _opener.open(url, data)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 328, in open
    '_open', req)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 307, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 971, in ftp_open
    fp, retrlen = fw.retrfile(file, type)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib.py", line 734, in retrfile
    self.ftp.nlst(file)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/ftplib.py", line 449, in nlst
    self.retrlines(cmd, files.append)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/ftplib.py", line 411, in retrlines
    return self.voidresp()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/ftplib.py", line 222, in voidresp
    resp = self.getresp()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/ftplib.py", line 213, in getresp
    raise error_temp, resp
IOError: [Errno ftp error] 426 Transmission failure: not a directory

Thx for any info,

Mate
-- 
---
Mate Wierdl | Dept. of Math. Sciences | University of Memphis  
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html



From fake at not-a-real-address.net  Fri Mar 19 07:01:23 2004
From: fake at not-a-real-address.net (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:01:23 GMT
Subject: Basic Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
References: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
Message-ID: <niB6c.12172$l25.1474@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Matthew Bell wrote:
> I've got a conceptual problem to do with inheritance.  
> I'd be grateful if someone could help to clear up my 
> confusion.
> 
> An example.  Say I need a class that's basically a 
> list, with all the normal list methods, but I want a 
> custom __init__ so that the list that is created is 
> [1,2,3] rather than [] (yes, it's a bogus example, 
> but it does to make the point).  Without bothering 
> with inheritance, I could do:
> 
>   class mysimplelistclass:
>     def __init__(self):
>       self.internallist = [1, 2, 3]
> 	
> This would work but I would, of course, need to define 
> methods in "mysimpleclass" to deal with all the various 
> methods that the original list class provides.
> 
> Obviously, the thing to do is to inherit from the list 
> class, override the __init__ method and leave the rest 
> of the normal list class's methods untouched.  So I'd 
> write something like:
> 
>   class myinheritedlistclass(list):
>     def __init__(self):
>       <now what?>
>     
> It's at this point I get confused.  Obviously, I don't 
> use the "self.internallist = [1, 2, 3]" bit as before 
> because I'd then need to override all of the rest of 
> the normal list methods to get them to act on 
> self.internallist.  
> 
> Conceptually, I suppose I need something like:
> 
> <somemagictoken> = superclass.self.__init__([1, 2, 3)]
> 
> but that is, of course, totally ridiculous.
> 
> Essentially, then, if I've inherited another class, how 
> do I create an instance of the class I've inherited such 
> that methods I haven't overrriden will still work, and 
> how can I then refer to that instance from my subclass?  
> I can guess it's something to do with "self" but exactly 
> what, I'm really at a loss.
> 
> Any assistance in my confusion would be gratefully received!
> 
> Regards,
>   Matthew.
> 
> 
I think this is what you want:

 >>> class MyList(list):
	def __init__(self,seq=[1,2,3]):
		super(MyList,self).__init__(seq)

		
 >>> a=MyList()
 >>> a
[1, 2, 3]
 >>> b=MyList([4,5])
 >>> b
[4, 5]
 >>> a + b
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
 >>>



From wfolta at netmail.to  Wed Mar 10 16:24:09 2004
From: wfolta at netmail.to (Wayne Folta)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:24:09 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4490CA98-72D9-11D8-B7FA-000A959CB2EC@netmail.to>

Personally, I'd much prefer that we get things like

    def @del

instead of

    def __del__

Save some keystrokes and I think the @ is attention-drawing-enough that 
we don't lose anything. Of course, all it's doing is adding @ to the 
legal characters in a variable name, which might be a waste instead of 
attaching a syntax to it, but...




From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Wed Mar 31 18:52:22 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:52:22 GMT
Subject: saving a tkinter canvas
Message-ID: <WQIac.1650$Pk3.1304@pd7tw1no>

Newbie. Playing with the 'turtle' module and wondering if there's a way to save
the graphics you make with it. The documentation itself has nothing to say about
this, nor (as far as I can tell) does the FAQ list at python-dot-org. Any
pointers would be very much appreciated.

(In related news, I would also like to find out what's going on with "bounding
boxes" in image files - not having them is keeping me from including images in
latex files.)

Peace




From hyperbob at walla.co.il  Tue Mar 23 12:22:12 2004
From: hyperbob at walla.co.il (hyperbob at walla.co.il)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:22:12 +0200
Subject: Suitability of python to specific project
Message-ID: <200403231722.i2NHMCb27223@omail2.walla.co.il>

Hi,

Thanks for all who answered my previous thread about large projects with python.

I thought about it a little and I'm not totally sure what size my project is so I decided to specify more or less what it requires from python. My question is, to what extent is python suitable for these tasks and how reliable is it in relation to each one of them?

The project will use wxPython for the user-interface, it will use python for multi-threading (but not for very heavy computation, just for seperating the user interface from the part of the program that monitors the hardware, for example), for communication inside a local network (including network overload avoidance considerations), for database operations (probably using sqlite and postgres), for general computations and simple file manipulations, and maybe for communicating with a server on the internet. It will not necessarily involve heavy computation, but may sometimes want to transfer large amounts of data through different computers on the network. It will also involve interaction with special hardware which will be implemented in C++. It will run on different flavours of Windows and should be very stable (by Windows standards).

Regarding the small bugs such as the ones that I found in urllib (that the proxies were ill retrieved and the whole operation failed on a seemengly non-related problem at a specific computer): what worries me more than the existence of small bugs, is their tendecy to appear on one computer and not on another, as in my example. How common is that in the python library in comparison to coherent bugs? Also, how fast are such small bugs usually fixed in the official release (both in case that I fix them myself and in case that I only complain)?

Regally,

Bob

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Walla! Mail, Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Walla! at:
http://mail.walla.co.il

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From klimkin at mcst.ru  Wed Mar  3 09:35:43 2004
From: klimkin at mcst.ru (Alexey Klimkin)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:35:43 +0300
Subject: Replacing base class
Message-ID: <4045ed40@news.corbina.ru>

Hello!

Is it possible in python to replace base class with another one?

Assume an example:
class A:
  def f(self):
    print 'A'
class B(A):
  def f(self):
    A.f(self)
    print 'B'
class C:
  def f(self):
    print 'C'

I need to make class Bm with the same functionality as B, but 
derived from C, instead of A. Classes C and A have the same
interface.

The call of f() for Bm should output:
C
B

As you see, the main problem is B.f, since it uses f() from base
class. Any clues?

Regards,
Alexey



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 30 08:02:40 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:02:40 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>
	<du73c7r7tub.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<Ut1ac.64446$cx5.43515@fed1read04>
	<4068D66A.7060800@sneakemail.com> <9C8ac.68303$cx5.4075@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <106is18rnt1vv55@news.supernews.com>


"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:9C8ac.68303$cx5.4075 at fed1read04...
> > but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.
>
> Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.

That mostly works. In fact, the original suggestion to use
tabs followed by spaces *only* for alignining continuations
also works: the most toxic case is the one where someone
has their indentation set to 4, and the editor blithely compresses
runs of 8 spaces to one tab. Then it goes to someone
else whose editor is set up for four character tabs, and
the indentation gets messed up.

John Roth

PS - I may have gotten several private e-mails at the address
on these postings. Please don't - the address that's availible
on Usenet is virus checked, spam checked and then deleted
without being read.

JR.


>
>
> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
> message news:4068D66A.7060800 at sneakemail.com...
> > Mark Hahn wrote:
> >  > Prothon has announced that we are caving in and going to spaces
instead
> of
> >  > tabs, even though both of the Prothon authors abhor spaces.
> >
> > You don't have to choose between them if you don't
> > want to. Disallowing *mixed* tabs and spaces is sensible,
> > but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a
> > given file.
> >
> > -- 
> > Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> > University of Canterbury,
> > Christchurch, New Zealand
> > http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
> >
>
>




From ods at strana.ru  Tue Mar  9 05:50:43 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:50:43 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403091347270.8943-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>

On 8 Mar 2004, Aahz wrote:

A>       from __pkg__.__pkg__ import
A>
A>   and ::
A>
A>       from .__parent__.__parent__ import
A>
A>   Many people (Guido included) think these look ugly, but
A> they *are*
A>   clear and explicit.  Overall, more people prefer
A> ``__pkg__`` as the
A>   shorter option.

from -.otherpackage import ... are clear too, but I wonder how
respective __import__() calls will look like.

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]





From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 22 16:11:58 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:11:58 +0000
Subject: Syntax of 'in' : searching a list for a string
References: <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079989917.12966.1@nnrp-t71-01.news.uk.clara.net>

In message <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc at posting.google.com>, MarieR wrote:

> I want to check whether the string 'Remove' is present in a list
> 'supportList', but if I do
> 
> if ('Remove') in supportList:
> 
> or
> 
> if 'Remove' in supportList:
> 
> I get the error message
> 
> 'in ' requires character as left operand.

If supportList is a list of strings, then this should work in Python 2.3 and
above:

for i in supportList:
  if 'Remove' in i:
    print 'Found it in', i

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From bob at redivi.com  Sun Mar  7 23:10:13 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:10:13 -0500
Subject: machine control script ( parameterless method? )
References: <340a6b1b6f65b385490e5d818b2b6c9e@news.scbiz.com>
	<20040306123424.20326.00000892@mb-m04.aol.com>
	<404a1dcd$1_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>
	<404b63a7$0$295$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<404bb0d3_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>
Message-ID: <2004030723101375249%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-07 18:31:30 -0500, simon place <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> said:

> F. Petitjean wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 simon place <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> [snip]
>> 
>>> that's why the question is actually only about getting rid of the brackets.
>> 
>> If the action is a property, simply writing someobject.someobject can
>> trigger a get method  whithout the brackets.
>> 
>> Regards.
> 
> thanks this is lot better, i might be able to except a dot but if 
> anyone has an idea about getting rid of this too?

Yeah, write your own parser that will translate your desired syntax 
into Python code before it gets compiled.  What you want isn't really 
Python.

-bob



From dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 03:10:54 2004
From: dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clak)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:10:54 GMT
Subject: Using Oracle on Solaris
References: <Xns94B49B2EDEE9Fdalestricklandclark@192.168.8.150>
	<405f4467$0$1121$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94B552C2577daleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>

Bernard Delm?e :

> You'll need a C compiler (Sun's or gcc), and the cx_Oracle module.
> Grab the source code at http://www.computronix.com/utilities.shtml
> When building the module (see the included instructions), make sure
> you've got a working oracle environment (eg 'sqlplus' can be invoked,
> and the oracle libraries can be found by the linker...)
> 
> The Python Database API is documented at:
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bernard.
> 

Excellent. Thanks very much.


-- 
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd, www.riverhall.co.uk


From bla at libero.it  Thu Mar 18 16:17:04 2004
From: bla at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:17:04 +0100
Subject: shutils.move lose files !
References: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3d3jm$d23$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:27:10 -0800, Shagshag wrote:

I get the same results under Linux .

> is it a bug ? 

If it'isnt it looks like one a lot ;)

-----
Doing the equivalent in bash i get :
$> mv tmp-dir/ tmp-dir/tmp-dir
mv: cannot move `tmp-dir/' to a subdirectory of itself, `tmp-dir/tmp-dir'

Leaning me more toward the bug hypothesis :)
-----

bye .







From mgb at mgbeckett.com  Wed Mar 24 07:46:33 2004
From: mgb at mgbeckett.com (Martin Beckett)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 04:46:33 -0800
Subject: Getting username and passwd from IE
Message-ID: <6b13855b.0403240446.7206703b@posting.google.com>

I have a CGI server class derived from
BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler
which needs to get a username and passwd from a client.
This is fine unless the client is Internet Explorer - which I
understand only sends a username/passwd when challenged.
I have code something like:

  if decode_authorization(self.headers):
     ....
  else:
     self.send_response(401)
     self.end_headers()
     return

But IE ingnores it, if I use send_error() IE prints the error message
instead of sending the authorization.

  Any ideas ?


From m.bless at gmx.de  Fri Mar  5 03:50:50 2004
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:50:50 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
	<2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
	<c27ivn$3ao$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<404795ce.683812@news.muenster.de>
	<c2861t$kft$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3o9f40tpvn2bj29p5g23i4et9hv3qii4hu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40483f1e.4458859@news.t-online.de>

[Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk>]

>Easy solution - write your extender such that it takes the original
>file in the constructor...
>
>  sys.stdout = ExtendedFile (sys.stdout)


Hhm,

>>> import sys
>>> class MyFile(sys.stdout):
...     pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: file() argument 2 must be string, not tuple
>>>

what do you mean?

mb - Martin Bless



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sun Mar 14 09:24:31 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:24:31 +0000
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
	<mailman.17.1079238303.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jmq850dtu0v0tvg9rc42h8fihfl6pef35d@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:24:59 -0500, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>
wrote:

>[montezum]
>> where can I find Paris Hilton video?
>
>comp.lang.perl.misc

<Settling down after a huge frame-shaking laugh>

QOTW (What the QUOTM or even QUOTY!)

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From zhi.peng at dolphinsearch.com  Fri Mar 19 14:24:21 2004
From: zhi.peng at dolphinsearch.com (Zhi Peng)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:24:21 -0800
Subject: UNICODE
Message-ID: <405B48E5.5080707@dolphinsearch.com>

Hi!
?????anyone know if MySQL support unicode data?
??????


???



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 07:36:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:36:30 -0500
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
In-Reply-To: <mailman.223.1079927977.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.223.1079927977.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hb6dna_Jyf5QQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Brian Quinlan wrote:

>>I've found an easy and clean way to load and use modules that are loaded
>>after a program has started when the name of the module can not be
>>pre-determined.
>>
>>modname = 'usermodname'
>># load the module
>>exec('import ' + modname)
>># alias the module
>>usersmod = eval(modname)
> 
> 
> Do you really think that is easier than:
> 
> usersmod = __import__(modname)

__import__ doesn't handle packages, right?  The above with exec()
appears, unfortunately, to be the simplest approach(*) to handling 
*arbitrary* imports, even if they are nested as in xml.sax.whatever.

* The simplest, provided you're doing it once.  Otherwise, of course,
you would just write a function to do the job, and reuse that instead.
Then the dangers of the exec() approach are bypassed.

-Peter


From http  Mon Mar 15 21:26:10 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 18:26:10 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for Random module
References: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c35i3n$pnb$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xad2hil31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> FYI: Mersenne Twister is a pretty spiffy pseudo random number
> generator...it is also /really/ fast.

Yes, but for some purposes, the output is insufficiently random.

> On the one hand, the SHA hash is not known to be generally invertable
> for any of the uniquely-mapped 160 bit input strings, or really for
> any non-trivial initial states or input strings.  It could very well
> be that it is not invertable for any string or state, but I've not
> done suitable research to know for sure.  Quite nice for an invertable
> perspective and suggesting that short cycles in state are rare, if
> even possible.

Finding a short cycle or a way to invert SHA1 would be a major
research result in cryptography.

> On the other hand, you could just as easily use the MD5 hash.  The
> only thing you get from SHA is perhaps more bits of state.  I don't
> know which one is faster though.

MD5 is somewhat faster than SHA, but for this module, the Python
wrapper takes most of the CPU cycles.

> Really, they take input character-by-character, perterb some current
> state with some non-trivially flowing functions with feedback, and
> produce a seemingly-random output that /should/ be uniform over the
> output space.  Whether or not they produce output that /is/ uniform
> over the output space is probably the result of some involved paper
> that I've not read.

Finding any practical way to distinguish the output of SHA with a
secret internal state from a true RNG would be a significant research
result.

> One thing to remember is that the Mersenne Twister is known to cycle
> in state only after 2**19937-1 calls.  Since you haven't done any
> measurable analysis of your method, or how often it would cycle in
> state during the repeated re-setting of the state to the hash of some
> relatively short input-string, that is only pseudo-random near the end
> (the previous hash), I expect that yours may not fare much (if any)
> better.

It's likely that the SHA generator will cycle after about 2**80 calls
due to birthday collisions, and unlikely that there are significantly
shorter cycles.  That's enough for practical use.  A stupendously
long cycle length is irrelevant if the output is predictable.

> One could exploit the features of both, and perhaps end up with a
> random number generator that cycles less often (if sha cycles in S
> iterations, and the mersenne twister cycles in M iterations, a new
> algorithm that cycles in SM iterations is possible, if S and M are
> coprime), but without actually analyzing their interaction, the
> behavior of such a random number generator is really only open for
> speculation.

If you're concerned about sha1's cycle length, your best bet is to use
one of the larger sha1 variants, sha256 or sha512.  I used sha1 because
it's built into the Python library.


From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 04:22:51 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:22:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file 
Message-ID: <20040306092251.17965.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,
I have a simple problem:
I have this dictionary output as per the format I
desired :
index : value

However, I want to write this to a file, instead of
just printing out to the std output.
I tried to make a new string s= i+ ":" +v
and fwrite(s) to the file. First it does not work.
Second I loose the relationship of index with the
value which I dont want. Can some one point me how to
write this to a file while still preserving index:
value relationship as it is present in the current
dictionary.

Sorry for the basic questions, I am struggling with a
project.

Thx
Dont
words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
dct = {}
for i in xrange(len(words)):
     dct[words[i]] = i
     #print dct


for i, v in enumerate(dct):
	#s= i+":"+v
	print i,":",v

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From http  Sat Mar 27 18:23:40 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 15:23:40 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4qs96fib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Jon Franz" <jfranz at neurokode.com> writes:
> > Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> > "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)
> 
>   I think the move to tabs-only for indentation was to allow for
> single-pass compiling.  I'm not saying it was a good move, just that
> that's my guess for the reason :)

I can't comprehend how tabs instead of spaces makes single-pass
compiling any easier.  The main advantage I can see is it messes up
some Windows mailers, so maybe Windows won't pollute the dev process
as much ;-).

> What I found interesting was:
>  - the use of the Apache Portable Runtime
> (to provide threads, file and network services)
>  - native threads via locks on each object
>  - the stackless-ness
>  - multiple interpreters via native threads

Also of interest, the mark/sweep garbage collector instead of
reference counting.  That may make it easier to write C extensions
(fewer PY_DECREF errors to make).


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 15:07:51 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:07:51 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <zyFac.57608$1A6.1296027@news20.bellglobal.com>

Right.  So if we'd all just settle on top-posting things wouldn't be so 
bad after all.  It's all you bottom-posters that are screwing things up 
for the rest of us. ;o)

Markus.

Stephen Horne wrote:

 > This is actually better than top-posting. At least the reading
 > direction is _consistently_ upwards, rather than requiring people to
 > leap forwards and back through the post in a desperate attempt to find
 > the clues they need.
 >

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:31:08 -0800, Michael
> <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
>>top.
>>to
>>bottom
>>read
>>to
>>learn
>>to
>>you
>>forcing
>>be
>>would
>>this
>>No,


From gee_arr_why at ll.mit.edu  Tue Mar 16 12:40:12 2004
From: gee_arr_why at ll.mit.edu (George Young)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:40:12 -0500
Subject: list inheritance or delegation?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.16.17.40.12.317810@ll.mit.edu>

[python 2.3.3, x86 linux]
I need an object that behaves much like a list, but has some
additional features.  It seems that I can do this either by
inheriting from type list, or by emulating list by defining
__len__, __getitem__, and maybe a bunch of  other methods.  Thirdly,
I could inherit from UserList, but that's deprecated now.

Inheriting from list would save me implementing a bunch of methods
that I might want.  But if I inherit from list, how do I get access
to the data?  E.g., I need a customized 'setitem' method that does
the insert and then does some other things too.  With UserList, I could:

class mylist(UserList):
   def __setitem__(self,i,y):
	self.dostuff(y)
	self.data[i]=y

but when inheriting from 'list', I'm not sure how to do this.

I couldn't find anything in the docs about inheriting from builtin
types, though it seems to be an encouraged practice.  It seems like if
one is encouraged to inherit from builtins, there needs to be at least
a concise description of the 'inheritable api' for each such type.
E.g. does __init__ or __new__ handle initial values.  Maybe I'm just
missing something obvious...
	
So, I'm asking:
1) what are the issues/tradoffs between inheriting from list and emulating
   it with my own methods referencing a list data member.

2) how do I get enough access to list's data to do the inheritance.

3) I'm whining about lack of documentation for #2.

Thanks,

-- George Young, gee arr why at ll.mit.edu [three letter username]



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Mar 31 09:46:51 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:46:51 -0300
Subject: Decimal test cases finished
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383815@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People:

I finished the test cases of the Decimal module. The file is
test_Decimal.py:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/nondist/sandbox/decimal/
test_Decimal.py

This should test all the specifications of PEP 327 (which I summited to
David Goodger asking him how to call for a review).

When the PEP get accepted, I'll review the test cases and then I'll start to
work on the Decimal module itself.

Please, if you're interested in Decimal, review the test cases. Any feedback
will be very grateful.

Thank you!

.	Facundo



From jfranz at neurokode.com  Sat Mar 27 03:37:38 2004
From: jfranz at neurokode.com (Jon Franz)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 03:37:38 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <02fc01c413d6$c36e4790$6401a8c0@voidmk9>

> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
> > What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
> > use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
> > some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
> > to be just templates to produce other objects.
>
> Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)

  I think the move to tabs-only for indentation was to allow for
single-pass compiling.  I'm not saying it was a good move, just that
that's my guess for the reason :)

What I found interesting was:
 - the use of the Apache Portable Runtime
(to provide threads, file and network services)
 - native threads via locks on each object
 - the stackless-ness
 - multiple interpreters via native threads

  It remains to be seen whether those sorts of changes result
in any significant speed differences.  I may try writing some
multithreaded test scripts and running them this weekend to see if
an actual performance increase exists over multi-threaded python
- if so, the internals may be of interest to the python community
itself.
  Has anyone else already performed that sort of performance
comparison?

~Jon Franz
NeuroKode Labs, LLC
513.260.5788




From mark at prothon.org  Sun Mar 28 14:35:21 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:35:21 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>

Mutability is an interesting area.  I just added an unmutable bit in the
Prothon internal object which makes the read_lock call a no-op and causes a
write_lock call to throw an exception.  This makes the object
write-protected and makes the lock code run much faster.

I did this for internal performance reasons, but after doing it I realize
that extending it to the Ruby freeze() level would be really good.  Tying
the freezing in somehow to the bang! methods is also in interesting area of
research.
Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

P.S. If this belongs in the Prothon list instead of Python, let us know.


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:15:34 -0500, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
> >news:mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list at python.org...
> >> John Roth wrote:
> >>
> >> > It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
> >> > exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
> >> > not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
> >> > open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.
> >>
> >> Ummm. This is also true for Python. Python classes exist at runtime.
> >>
> >> foo = 5
> >>
> >> class foo: # oops. I've overwritten foo
> >> def bar(self):
> >> pass
> >>
> >> print foo
> >> print dir(foo)
> >> print type(foo)
> >>
> >>   Paul Prescod
> >
> >Sure. But misusing classes as instances is quite rare in
> >practice, and plugging members into instances is also
> >quite rare in practice. Python's highly dynamic nature
> >opens it up to a lot of difficulty in principle, but most
> >deveopers seem to be quite disciplined in their use of
> >dynamism.
> >
> >The difficulty here is simply that there is no way of
> >isolating a base object that is supposed to be the platform
> >for other objects from objects that are supposed to be
> >updatable with new behavior.
> >
> >The higher a tower you want to build, the firmer the
> >foundation. Conventions help, but if the conventions
> >are helped along by the language, that's even better.
>
> In Ruby you can freeze() any object.  But it seems like in this case,
> just giving your base object a distinct name, like PrototypePolygon
> will remind you not to change its definition later as you create
> triangles, rectangles, etc.
>
> I also would have no objection to some syntactic lock, like any object
> name ending in an underscore is an immutable object.  We could also do
> this the other way around.  Objects, by default are immutable.  That
> would take care of most uses.  If you want a mutable object, give it a
> name ending in ! (bang).
>
> -- Dave
>




From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Mar 24 13:02:00 2004
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:02:00 -0800
Subject: String formatting with floats... can't get it!
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837B4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837B4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <200403241002.00787.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Wednesday 24 March 2004 09:44 am, Batista, Facundo wrote:
> With an int:
> >>> '%d' % 4
>
> '4'
>
> >>> '%.2d' % 4
>
> '04'
>
> >>> '%2d' % 4
>
> ' 4'
>
> >>> '%2.2d' % 4
>
> '04'
>
> But with a float:
> >>> '%f' % 2.33
>
> '2.330000'
>
> >>> '%.2f' % 2.33
>
> '2.33'
>
> >>> '%2.f' % 2.33
>
> ' 2'
>
> >>> '%2.2f' % 2.33
>
> '2.33'
>
> Why in this last line I don't get ' 2.33'?

Use '%5.2f'.  The first digit is the total length of the result you
want (5 characters), while the second digit is how many of those
characters are used for the portion after the point.  Thus '%2.2f'
does not make any sense, so the first '2' is ignored and the formating
uses whatever it needs.

Gary Herron





From amy-g-art at cox.net  Sat Mar 20 14:02:30 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:02:30 -0800
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<JTS6c.15939$Bg.5379@fed1read03>
	<7x1xnodjx2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405BFC92.E1C8C186@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <8z07c.21193$Bg.9311@fed1read03>


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:405BFC92.E1C8C186 at alcyone.com...
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> > Try n.update("help\n").
>
> Right.  For Amy:  You can suppress the newline on echo with the -n
> option, by the way:
>
I discovered this last night.

But what is the true MD5 hash for help?  With or without the newline?





From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Sun Mar 28 02:53:58 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 23:53:58 -0800
Subject: ZODB for beginners - the most simple example ?
Message-ID: <282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6@posting.google.com>

Hi - I'm trying to use ZODB but I'm having trouble getting started.
Can anyone point me at a very simple example ?

I've had a look at 'ZODB/ZEO Programming Guide'
(http://zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node2.html) but although
it's good stuff it's not clear to me how the pieces of example fit
together to produce something that works.

I've also read 'Introduction to the Zope Object Database'
(http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/fulton/zodb3.html)
which has good examples but they rely on a module called 'PTextIndex'
which (as far as I can see) is not defined anywhere.

So if anyone could point me at a very, very simple ZODB usage example
I'd be very grateful (and I should just say that both of the above
resources are very helpful so thanks to their authors).

thanks

Richard.


From josh+news at nextyme.net  Sun Mar 21 14:35:52 2004
From: josh+news at nextyme.net (Josh Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:35:52 -0600
Subject: Newbie Help with IMAPLIB Module
References: <3e8ef6f.0403210822.71344764@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5rr0i.irm.josh+news@peregrin.nextyme.net>

In comp.lang.python, you wrote:
> However, this isn't exactly what I want.  The definition of the
> "RECENT" flag in IMAP only returns a number if no other program has
> checked the mailbox.  From the RFC: "This session is the first session
> to have been notified about this message; subsequent sessions will not
> see \Recent set for this message."
> 
> Does anyone know how I can check if \Seen flag is *not* true on any
> messages in the mailbox and then return how many message are not
> tagged as /Seen
> 

You want to use the search member function to do something like this:

#prints the message numbers of unread email
m=imaplib.IMAP4('localhost')
m.login('username','password')
result, message_count = m.select(readonly=1)
if result != 'OK':
	raise Exception, message
result,messages_found = m.search(None, '(UNSEEN UNDELETED)')
for num in string.split(messages_found[0]):
	print num

I found a long example using imaplib (lots of good stuff) here:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52299

You may also want to search for NEW instead of UNSEEN but I'm a 
little hazy about that. HTH.

-jbs


From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Thu Mar 11 23:43:25 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:43:25 +0800
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
In-Reply-To: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
Message-ID: <000301c407ec$8f248cb0$0000fea9@simonxp>

Are you ranting or attempting to be humourarse?

S.




From sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu  Thu Mar 18 22:09:10 2004
From: sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu (Jason)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 19:09:10 -0800
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.136.1079633391.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <480e9240.0403181909.741abfa8@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the help - I wasn't aware of the profilers avilable for
Python.

My uber-abstraction is due to recently fleeing from C (abstraction
made hard) and Lisp (no workable GUI stuff) so I'm stuck in the
middle. Anyway, I appreciate the comments.

Jason


From Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com  Mon Mar 22 12:46:31 2004
From: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com (Lindstrom Greg - glinds)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:46:31 -0600
Subject: MSSQL Help
Message-ID: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D16A95050@conmsx03.corp.acxiom.net>

I would like to use Python (2.3.3 on Windows 2000 "Professional") to access
a MSSQL Server and list all of the available databases, as well as the
tables in each database and columns in each table for an automated test tool
I am designing.  I have used the MSSQL module many times in the past for
Inserting, Updating, and Selecting data from various databases, but have
never mined for metadata like this before.  Is it possible and, if so, how
can I do it?

Thanks for your help,

Greg Lindstrom, IBCATS Development
Acxiom Corporation
(501) 342-1626      GregLindstrom at acxiom.com

We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals. -- Quarry
Worker's Creed 





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From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 04:24:39 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:24:39 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.247.1078954284.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfa050pivvn5lhhpltvhem7v4rbt6ip0fm@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:31:12 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>
wrote:
>I don't like your suggestion.  You propose using @ in 4 different
>ways, one of which I don't even understand
>    -- to pass keyword arguments to statements
>    -- instead of the perfectly good "lambda" keyword
>    -- mumble generators mumble (this is the example I don't understand)
>    -- instead of the perfectly good "self." idiom

The details of these suggestions don't matter.  The key concept, which
nobody seems to appreciate, is that we can *avoid* different and
confusing ways of extending an existing syntax.  Perhaps a better
example will help.

Paul Prescod in a recent thread proposed deprecating the print
statement in favor of a "show()" function.  The new function would
provide the same defaults as our current print statement, but would
also allow changing those defaults via keyword arguments.  As you
might expect there were lots of objections to deprecating the existing
syntax.  The arguments in favor were good, however, and I could see
this being done in some future version of Python.

There are lots of other examples where it would be nice to extend the
current syntax without changing the old.  So how would we do that with
the print statement?  We could do it by adding keywords, like was done
did with 'lambda' and 'yield'.  That seems to be the implication of
the arguments in this thread against using a special symbol.

What I'm saying is, rather than add new keywords, it would be better
to have a standard symbol that has no specific meaning other than
"modify this statement".  Beginners will learn the basic statements,
and ignore the modifications.  Later they will see an @ symbol on some
otherwise familiar statement, and they will go to the docs for that
statement to figure out what it means.  This is quite different than
Perl, where symbols themselves convey many complex meanings.

Maybe there will be no more changes in Python. I think that would be a
mistake as bad as adding more unnecessary keywords for seldom-used
statements.

-- Dave



From rlwm.erens at home.nl  Mon Mar  1 18:27:46 2004
From: rlwm.erens at home.nl (Roger)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 15:27:46 -0800
Subject: get notepad on windows to front via tcp-server
Message-ID: <5475062c.0403011527.22364bc4@posting.google.com>

I've got some MS-windows (XP only?) related questions; hopefully
someone can give me some advise.

1)
Is there some way to make notepad to become the front window when it
is started from within a tcp-server, using something like

os.system("notepad") or
os.system("start /w notepad")

Using these methods from a python shell works as expected, but using a
tcp-client/server construct gives me notepad in the rear.

I read an old thread from '98 about something very much related to
this, but it used tk which I don't want to. Besides, the thread ended
undecidedly.

2)
>From a python shell using
os.system("write") or
os.system("start /w write")
gives me an exit code (zero) before I have closed the application
wordpad. So os.system() is not waiting as I thought it should.
Can this be explained?

I have NOTEPAD.EXE in C:\windows and notepad.exe and write.exe in
C:\windows\system32.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 06:10:26 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:10:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: getting size of gif
In-Reply-To: <c32573$1bf$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040315111026.63050.qmail@web8302.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Yes, use PIL. I used it recently for pyAlbum.py
[http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246].
The good thing about PIL is that it supports a lot of
popular image formats, if I am right.

-Premshree Pillai

 --- Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote: >
Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> > >Get PIL (Python Imaging Library) if you don't
> already have it
> > >
> > >http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm/
> > >
> > >import Image
> > >pathtogif=r'C:\xxx.gif'   # Replace with your
> path
> > >im=Image.open(pathtogif)
> > >x,y=im.size
> > >im.close()
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > It doesn't require all of PIL, though, for those
> who
> > have a reason *not* to rely on it
> 
> note that you don't need all of PIL to run the above
> example; it's enough
> to install Image.py, ImageFile.py, ImagePalette.py,
> and the *ImagePlugin.py
> files you need for your application.  the binary
> extensions are not needed.
> 
> </F>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Wed Mar 10 18:23:53 2004
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:23:53 -0700
Subject: Creating frames in threads
Message-ID: <404fa386$1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

I have a program that creates one or more frames with

   TF = TopLevel(Root)

talks to some equipment, calculates some stuff, draws a graph on a canvas in
the frame, then exits.  The frame/s goes with the thread and disappears when
the thread is finished -- which I guess makes sense.  Is there a way to keep
those frames around after the thread is gone?

Thanks!

Bob




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From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar  8 15:39:31 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:39:31 +1100
Subject: wrapping C++, how to wrap an object?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE0145F533@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Torsten Mohr
> 
> But is there no way to do this in plain python?
> 
> I don't really want to use any additional libraries,
> as i want to use this code in the office and license
> problems are always a big problem there.

Well, you won't have to worry about licensing issues with Boost.Python ...

http://boost.sourceforge.net/LICENSE_1_0.txt
http://boost.sourceforge.net/more/license_info.html

Tim Delaney



From gabor at z10n.net  Tue Mar  9 11:47:00 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:47:00 +0100
Subject: Unicode (Japanese) fonts in Images
In-Reply-To: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>
References: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>
Message-ID: <1078850820.8451.3.camel@dubb>

On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 23:12, Rich wrote:

> kanji = u'\ufffe\ua295\uc07b

are you sure this you wrote this correctly?
 tried to output the utf-8 encoded version of that string to a file and
tried to open it in gedit,
and gedit (he couldn't display it), but said that it is 9symbols
long.... which i think is not correct....

i don't know japanese, but i have a textfile with 2 jpn symbols, which i
think are correct. try these:

text = u'\u6708\u59eb'

do they work?
gabor




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Wed Mar 10 03:34:20 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:34:20 +0200
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
In-Reply-To: <7eu2i1-g3m1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
	<mailman.196.1078884831.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<3af2i1-c1i1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
	<404EB8DC.2010002@zoran.com>
	<7eu2i1-g3m1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <404ED30C.6050808@zoran.com>

Hello Tim,

> I considred something like this, but I don't actually want a full blown
> language available to the end-user.  Too easy for them to blow things
> up.  
Yes. OTOH they'll want more and more power and more and more features. 
Just hand them Python and warn them.

> I am working on something that is essentially almost entirely
> a lexical substitution (aka macro) engine.  The only "logic" will be
> conditional inclusion of selected statments and simple string
> substitution.  I may also add lexical namespaces since this is easy to
> do.
Have you considerd using either the C pre processor or M4 macro language?
One more option is to link to a small language that you can modify, have 
a look at tiny scheme (http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/). It's one C 
file implementation and you have a full language to give to your users.

> I used a similar idea when I wrote 'twander' and now I want a more
> generic version of it:
> 
> http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander/
Very cool. I like it.

HTH.
Miki


From krauth at franzk.de  Wed Mar  3 21:32:09 2004
From: krauth at franzk.de (franz)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 18:32:09 -0800
Subject: design pattern
Message-ID: <11c08e94.0403031832.5050dad8@posting.google.com>

Hi developers!

Are you using design pattern? And do you want to help me with my
research project?
Ok ? you only need two minutes ? I made a little survey form (8 very
short questions).
There are no mail address or other personal data questioned
 

Just point your browser to:
http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/krauth/pattern_survey/pattern_survey

if you are interested in the results send me an e-mail (mailto is
provided under the form!)

thx in advance for your help everyone!!
franz


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 11 16:09:20 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:09:20 +0100
Subject: compile exe with anydbm module
References: <kQ24c.38289$O31.1627420@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ishbgkfz.fsf@python.net>

"Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*" <alessandro at sephiroth.it> writes:

> Hi all
> I'm trying to compile a python app with py2exe (not the 0.5.0.. i
> think 0.4.1) which uses the anydbm module But when i launch the exe
> file created it raise this error: exceptions.ImportError, no dbm clone
> found; tryed ["dbhash","gdbm","dbm","dumbdbm"]

IMO you should decide which database you want to use and then use it
directly in your script.
Or you use '--includes dbhash' or similar.

Thomas




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 12:57:50 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:57:50 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
	<o_04c.2682$G3.21117@localhost>
Message-ID: <5u9150peaueqmsrt5tppc08mro5q8acebu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:01:57 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>
>> 'yield' is a little closer to the intent, but again, to most new users
>> it probably means something more like 'give way' or 'acquiesce', the
>> opposite of 'resist'.  If you had never seen 'yield' used as it is now
>> in Python, and your first encounter with generator functions was when
>> you saw @return, would you not think "Ah yes, a modified return.", and
>> would that not be closer to reality than whatever you might associate
>> with the word 'yield'?
>
>No!  The "give way" meaning is _much_ closer to what is going on than 
>"modified return", in my way of looking at it.  Return winds up the call 
>stack and just happens to include a result value.  Yield temporarily 
>"gives way" but leaves the stack frame in place, available for 
>resumption at a later time.  You could say that the result value is 
>incidental, in the return case, while the permanent transfer of context 
>is the key thing.  Just the opposite in the case of yield, and therefore 
>much different from a "modified return".

A normal return terminates the function and returns a result.  A
modified return (yield) suspends the function and returns a result.

>This is all semantics, probably, but I don't believe you can make a 
>strong case that yield is an ill-chosen name.

It's not ill chosen, just arbitrary.  I would be just as happy with
'rtn' or 'tsr' or any fanciful word that doesn't convey a _wrong_
meaning.

We seem to have lost the top of this sub-thread, which is what I was
responding to:

>- Python is a readable language. lambda says "function literal",
>  yield says "generator",

All I'm saying is that these names don't convey the stated meanings to
most new users.  I could be wrong, as I haven't done a survey.

-- Dave



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 29 00:45:24 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:45:24 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
	<000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<001701c41530$747c8e70$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.36554.899992.486386@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <002e01c41551$08147830$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>

> You're shooting the messenger.  

Nothing personal intended :-)

> Every language whose objects can form cycles
> has to deal with the issue of reclaiming those cycles in the presence of
> destructors.  There is no automatically correct place to break such cycles.
> In those situations you have to either avoid cycles, decide how to reclaim
> them or get rid of __del__ in potentially cycle-forming objects.

I am not denying that is an issue.  The problem in this case is that because
there *could* be cycles, file/socket handles have to be manually closed.
The currently library goes out of its way to do so, together with a makefile
method (a kind of dup) to deal with ownership issues.  The problem is that
only raw UNIX file desciptors dup well.  SSL does not do so.

Additionally when layering over SSL, HTTP/1.1 persistent connections and
xmlrpclib, it all gets even more complicated.  The current library solves
that problem by not supporting SSL, not supporting persistent connections
and dealing with a maximum of one request/response in each loop, and always
closing afterwards.

The fix isn't simple.  Quite frankly I don't know what it is.  I did
do something that works for my project, but is not generally applicable.
If someone does want to solve this, I will provide moral support :-)

Roger



From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Mon Mar 15 06:34:40 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 03:34:40 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>

hi,

I like the way that Python does lists, and I love the way it does
iterators.  But I've decided I don't like what it does with iterators
of lists.  Lists are supposed to be mutable sequences, but try to use
an iterator of a list that you're mutating and watch it all fall to
pieces.  That is, if you change the length of a section of the list
through which the iterator has already passed, it will lose track of
where it is.  I think this should be fixed for 2.4.  I'm not sure if
this is a bug or a PEP, so I'd like to hear from others on this
newsgroup.

I've coded the following Python implementation of how I think lists
should work.  It looks a little odd, and I'm sure that a C
implementation could be quite a bit more efficient (at least I hope
that is the case), and it wouldn't leak iterators like this one does. 
But I think I've thought of, and dealt with, all of the weird cases. 
These include: adding before the last yielded item, subtracting before
the next item to be yielded, adding between the last-yielded and
next-yielded items, subtracting the next-yielded item, etc.  I think
that this subclass does the right thing in each of these cases.  I'm
curious to see if others agree, and whether they think something like
this should be in the next version of Python.  This code should work
with 2.3.

I hope this isn't in conflict with any previous irrevocable
pronouncements.  b-)

Hope you like it,
Jess



import itertools

class mutable_iterable_list(list):
    """just like a list except it iterates gracefully under
mutation"""
    def __init__(self, object):
        list.__init__(self, object)
        # set up a way for other methods to communicate with iterators
        self._mutations = {}
        self._iterator_keys = itertools.count()
    def __iter__(self):
        # get a unique name for this iterator and 'register' it
        key = self._iterator_keys.next()
        self._mutations[key] = []
        i = 0
        try:
            while True:
                # calculate the cumulative effect of all changes to
the list
                # since the last yield statement
                for mutation in self._mutations[key]:
                    delta = 0
                    # we must use nesting to accomodate slice deletion
-
                    # if we didn't accumulate in delta, i and j could
pass
                    # each other in the night
                    # otherwise a list of (j, d)'s would do
                    for j, d in mutation:
                        if j < i:
                            delta += d
                    i += delta
                self._mutations[key] = []
                yield self[i]
                i += 1
        except IndexError:
            pass
        del self._mutations[key]   # this iterator needs no further
updates
    # avoid calling list.__delslice__ and list.__setslice__
    def __delslice__(self, i, j):
        self.__delitem__(slice(i, j))
    def __setslice__(self, i, j, object):
        self.__setitem__(slice(i, j), object)
    def __delitem__(self, index):
        list.__delitem__(self, index)
        if type(index) is slice:
            # range() can't handle None as an argument
            start = index.start or 0
            if index.stop is None:
                stop = len(self)
            else:
                stop = index.stop
            step = index.step or 1
            # record the implicit deletion at each point where it
occurs
            mutations = zip(range(start, stop, step),
itertools.repeat(-1))
            # inform each iterator of the changes to the list
            for it in self._mutations:
                self._mutations[it].append(mutations)
        else:
            for it in self._mutations:
                self._mutations[it].append(((index, -1),))
    def __setitem__(self, index, object):
        list.__setitem__(self, index, object)
        # otherwise __setitem__ has no effect on iterators
        if type(index) is slice and index.step is None:
            start = index.start or 0
            if index.stop is None:
                stop = len(self)
            else:
                stop = index.stop
            mutations = zip(range(start, stop), itertools.repeat(-1))
            for it in self._mutations:
                self._mutations[it].append(mutations)
                # record the insertion at the beginning of the slice -
this is
                # added separately so that if i was pointing to part
of the
                # affected slice, it will go back to the beginning of
the added
                # sequence
                self._mutations[it].append(((start, len(object)),))
    def insert(self, index, object):
        list.insert(self, index, object)
        for it in self._mutations:
            self._mutations[it].append(((index, 1),))
    def pop(self, index):
        r = list.pop(self, index)
        for it in self._mutations:
            self._mutations[it].append(((index, -1),))
        return r
    def remove(self, object):
        index = self.index(object)
        list.remove(self, object)
        for it in self._mutations:
            self._mutations[it].append(((index, -1),))


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 15:03:28 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:03:28 -0500
Subject: Equality and identity
References: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <qnk7jx214rz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Marius Bernklev <mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

> In python, it seems like immutable objects are equal under both
> equality and identity:
>
>>>> 5 == 5
> True
>>>> 5 is 5
> True
>>>> "hei" == "hei"
> True
>>>> "hei" is "hei"
> True
>
> But that isn't true for tuples:
>>>> (5,2) == (5,2)
> True
>>>> (5,2) is (5,2)
> False
>
> Why not?  Are tuples mutable in some way I've missed, or are there
> other reasons for this behaviour?  To me, it seems natural to concider
> (5,2) and (5,2) the same object, just like "5,2" and "5,2".

We've had this question recently. Immutable objects *may* be reused,
but are not required. It's implementation-dependent.

Rememeber:
'is' checks object identity
'==' checks object equality

identity implies equality, but not the other way around.

In your example, 5 and "hei", for various reasons, are compiled to
reference the exact same object, so 'is' returns True. However, no
such caching is done with tuples, so (5,2) and (5,2) compile to
references to different objects (whose contents are equal).

Here are some examples that may help some more:
>>> a = "hei x"
>>> b = "hei x"
>>> a is b
False
# The space in "hei x" prevents the string from being interned, so two
# string objects are created)
>>> a = 12345
>>> b = 12345
>>> a is b
False
# integers outside of (about) [-100,100] are not cached, so a and b
# reference different objects)
>>> 12345 is 12345
True
# huh? let's look closer...
>>> import dis
>>> c = compile('12345 is 12345', '<string>', 'single)
# this creates the code object that is executed to evaluate '12345 is 12345'
>>> exec c
True
>>> dis.dis(c)
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 (12345)
              3 LOAD_CONST               0 (12345)
              6 COMPARE_OP               8 (is)
              9 PRINT_EXPR          
             10 LOAD_CONST               1 (None)
             13 RETURN_VALUE        
# ahh, the compiler optimizes storing constants in the code object.
>>> c = compile('(5,2) is (5,2)', '<string>', 'single')
>>> dis.dis(c)
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 (5)
              3 LOAD_CONST               1 (2)
              6 BUILD_TUPLE              2
              9 LOAD_CONST               0 (5)
             12 LOAD_CONST               1 (2)
             15 BUILD_TUPLE              2
             18 COMPARE_OP               8 (is)
             21 PRINT_EXPR          
             22 LOAD_CONST               2 (None)
             25 RETURN_VALUE        
# here we see the compiler optimizes storage for the numbers also, but
# since it builds tuples, instead of storing them in the code object,
# it doesn't store (5,2) as a one object, but constructs two different
# ones that it compares.


Also, here's a example with Jython 2.1:
Jython 2.1 on java1.3 (JIT: kaffe.jit)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 12345 is 12345
1
>>> "hei" is "hei"
1
>>> a = "hei"
>>> b = "hei"
>>> a is b
0

Note that the last part gives True when done with CPython, as "hei"
looks like it could be an identifier, and is 'interned' (cached),
whereas Jython doesn't do that.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From amleczko at icpnet.pl  Mon Mar 15 19:19:22 2004
From: amleczko at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Mleczko)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:19:22 +0100
Subject: INTRANET zope
References: <c32rlm$akq$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <c34ul1$qid$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
Message-ID: <c35h6l$n77$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>

Hmmm... not all. Look at www.zope.com
I'm searching for something like http://www.zope.com/Products/Zope4Intranets
but open source.

U?ytkownik "Mikl?s" <nospam at nowhere.hu> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:c34ul1$qid$1 at namru.matavnet.hu...
>
> "Andrzej Mleczko" <amleczko at icpnet.pl> wrote in message
> news:c32rlm$akq$1 at topaz.icpnet.pl...
> > Hi
> > I'm searching for an open-source, free Intranet solutions in Zope.
> >
> >
> This post doesn't make any sense... Almost any "Zope solution" is
> open-sourced. (You components, right?) And certainly all of them are
> "Intranet solutions"
>
> Pm
>
>




From popovob at samaramail.ru  Thu Mar  4 23:09:19 2004
From: popovob at samaramail.ru (Oleg Popov)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:09:19 -0500
Subject: I can't use cx_Oracle..help me.
References: <a48d7271.0403031830.1537c787@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040304230919.49dc9f4c@localhost>

On 3 Mar 2004 18:30:23 -0800
slackgg at 163.com (slackgg at 163.com) wrote:

> hello all:
>   i import cx_Oracle modules will show "Traceback (most recent call l
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in
> ImportError: DLL load failed: can't find ..."
I guess,you didn't  install Oracle Client Software.
You should install it.
 

Popov Oleg
Oracle DBA
opopov at yandex.ru



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 15:25:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:25:39 +0100
Subject: Modifying Entry widget diabledforeground in Tkinter...
References: <wk65dkv0sg.fsf@yahoo.poofters.com>
Message-ID: <c283c3$89e$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Rod Stephenson wrote:

> I want to modify an Entry widget to have the disabledforeground color
> be black rather than grey (so that in certain circumstances the widget
> acts as a label for displaying some stuff; the normal gray disabled
> foreground color isnt really readable).
> 
> In Tk this is just a matter of using configure -disabledforeground
> but this seems not to be an option with Tkinter. Reading through the
> source there is a tk_setPallete which seems to do this globally, but
> is there any way to do this locally for the widget?

import Tkinter as tk
root = tk.Tk()
var = tk.StringVar()
var.set("one two three")
entry = tk.Entry(root, disabledforeground="blue", state="disabled",
    textvariable=var)
entry.pack()

enabled = False
states = {False:"disabled", True:"normal"}
def toggle():
    global enabled
    button["text"] = states[enabled]
    enabled = not enabled
    entry["state"] = states[enabled]
button = tk.Button(root, text="normal", command=toggle)
button.pack()

root.mainloop()

I took the freedom to use blue for the sake of the example.

Peter


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Thu Mar 11 11:28:11 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:28:11 +0100
Subject: Video module?
References: <mailman.265.1079003910.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2q4jv$sus$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Pygame ?





From max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com  Thu Mar  4 11:35:11 2004
From: max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com (max khesin)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:35:11 GMT
Subject: Examples of using the html parser
In-Reply-To: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>
References: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3VI1c.9881$Wo2.6174@twister.nyc.rr.com>

There are well-explained examples on www.diveintopython.org
max.

Boogie El Aceitoso wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Were can I find examples of the usege of the html parser class?


From p at trick.lu  Wed Mar  3 16:14:02 2004
From: p at trick.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:14:02 +0100
Subject: network servers
References: <930ba99a.0403020250.66d3536e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qjic40hldt8rcp5ocl2dk6m93h17r3evun@4ax.com>

On 2 Mar 2004 02:50:32 -0800, sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
wrote:

>We're planning to write a server for handling atleast 1000 and atmost
>4000 clients.  The connection is basically (TCP)
>connect-send-disconnect type.  So no client will open up its
>connection forever, except for the small time duration of sending the
>message.  This is something like online programming contest, where
>clients will submit their programs for evaluation and server will
>return the results (after sometime). I though of writing the server
>part in C and use Python for client.
>
>Is it possible to use python for that high performance serving?  Note:
>There is only one physical machine.

Look at Twisted (http://www.twistedmatrix.com).

--
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 02:29:57 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:29:57 +0100
Subject: index out of range with slice object
References: <c2nro6$ef7$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <c2p4hl$dk$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Uwe Mayer wrote:

> a class of mine should support the list interface and implements the
> __len__ and __getitem__ methods.
> 
> Now when I ask for an unbounded slice:
> 
>>>> len( myObj[:] )
> 
> my __getitem__(self, y) method gets called with
> 
>     y = slice(0, 2147483647, None)
> 
> Now step size is ok, but where does that incredibly large stop index come
> from? Also I expected the start index rather to be None than zero.
> The __len__(self) method returns the correct length, which is 728.
> 
> Has anybody encountered something like that bevore? Is that natural or am
> I doing something wrong?

There seems a transition to be going on, due to extended slices, I suppose:

>>> class Old:
...     def __getitem__(self, index):
...             return index
...
>>> class New(object):
...     def __getitem__(self, index):
...             return index
...
>>> New()[:]
slice(None, None, None)
>>> Old()[:]
slice(0, 2147483647, None)
>>>

I found only the old style behaviour documented in the reference manual
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/slicings.html:

"The lower and upper bound expressions, if present, must evaluate to plain
integers; defaults are zero and the sys.maxint, respectively."

So "incredibly large" is in fact sys.maxint, which should be obvious if you
convert it to hexadecimal:

>>> hex(2147483647)
'0x7fffffff'

Anyway, you can use the indices() method to get the actual boundaries in
both cases:

>>> Old()[:].indices(10)
(0, 10, 1)
>>> New()[:].indices(10)
(0, 10, 1)
>>>

Peter


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 16:37:17 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:37:17 GMT
Subject: win32 COM
Message-ID: <h628c.4838$HP.2305@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Are there any good win32 COM tutorials that any of you have heard of??

Thanks




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar  1 10:18:59 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:18:59 +0200
Subject: Status of Installer?
Message-ID: <c1vkb4$t5e$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

Does anyone know what is the status with McMillan's Installer?
I get "Forbidden" when trying to access 
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

Miki


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  3 07:33:14 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 06:33:14 -0600
Subject: Jython Debugger?
In-Reply-To: <3b091a1c.0403030152.68ecc055@posting.google.com>
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<3b091a1c.0403030152.68ecc055@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16453.53386.228379.967557@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Carl> I'm still looking for a real graphically debugger though.

What visual features do you want that an X/Emacs+gdb+python-mode+pdbtrack
can't give you?

Skip



From mickel at csc.fi  Mon Mar 29 05:14:22 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:14:22 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: QuickTimeTcl and Python/Tkinter crash
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403291254400.6617@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi everybody,

I'm using QuickTimeTcl (3.1) to be able to play movie files in my Tkinter
application (Python 2.3.2) on Windows 2000. I was planning to write a
simple wrapper class, QuickTimeMovie, that would wrap up the QuickTimeTcl
Tcl extension as a Python class. All seems to work pretty fine until the
Tkinter application is closed, when the Python interpreter crashes with an
error of the following kind:

The instruction at "0x6697c820" referenced memory at "0x01581f1c". The
memory could not be "written". Click on OK to terminate the program.

When running the "same" code in Tcl, I do not get this error.

I reckon the problem is that Python holds on to a reference to
something inside QuickTimeTcl after the QuickTimeTcl movie widget has been
destroyed.

My questions are then:

1. Is there a way to force Python to get rid of references so the
problem mentioned above could be avoided? (I.e. some sort of forced
garbage collection?)

2. Am I totally off track, i.e. is there some logical explanation (and
straight-forward fix) to the error I am experiencing?

I wrote Mats Bengtsson (who maintains the QuickTimeTcl extension) about
this too, but I reckon the Python community might have a few tips and
tricks to share too.

Here is the sample code I'm using. (To try it out, you need to download
QuickTimeTcl and put it where Python can find it (e.g.
"C:\\Python23\tcl").)

--------------------------

import Tkinter

class Movie(Tkinter.Widget):
    def __init__(self, parent, cnf={}, **kw):
	parent.tk.eval('package require -exact QuickTimeTcl 3.1')
        Tkinter.Widget.__init__(self, parent, 'movie', cnf, kw)

root = Tkinter.Tk()
m = Movie(root, file="toaster.mpeg")
m.pack()
root.mainloop()

---------------------------

Thanks in advance,

Mickel Gr?nroos

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar 12 16:36:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:36:14 +0100
Subject: Newbie question, Help needed!
References: <b5f9523.0403121319.6f1ea7e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2tage$p5l$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Antti Isomursu wrote:

> Ok, this is my problem.
> I have a list, with several items.
> I can move forward in that list using iterator (for example, iter(x)
>  and then, it.next()...)
> 
> But how can I move backwards?

>>> def reverse(seq):
...     for i in xrange(len(seq)-1, -1, -1):
...             yield seq[i]
...
>>> for c in reverse("abc"): print c
...
c
b
a
>>> r = reverse(range(5))
>>> r.next()
4
>>> r.next()
3

Python 1.4 will have something similar built in.
Or you iterate over a reversed copy:

for item in alist[::-1]:
   # do your stuff

>>> iter(range(5)[::-1]).next()
4

Peter


From andzy at imap.cc  Wed Mar 31 08:10:14 2004
From: andzy at imap.cc (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 05:10:14 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>

GUI's seem to be more like documents than programs, so I wonder why
we're not considering more declarative type interface builders.  Is
there such a thing,  maybe that writes out a standard specification
file instead of code?  If it were XML, you could write a XSL filter to
make the all the modifications you needed to accomodate a different
platform.

Another thing: I understand that Miguel de (I forget), the Gnome guy,
has stated that the two programs that really have done cross platform
best are Mozilla and Abiword.  There was once a Python binding for
Mozilla's widget library XUL but I don't don't what's happended to
that.  Anone know if this is relevant to our discussion of cross
platform GUI's?


From http  Fri Mar 19 03:12:54 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 00:12:54 -0800
Subject: [snip too-long subject]
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.149.1079674608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x7jxhuuex.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Chris Gonnerman <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> writes:
> > map, zip, sum, etc. are used in a large amount of production
> > code. Moving them somewhere else would break every piece of code
> > that uses them.  This is not going to happen soon, possibly ever.
> 
> I'm a bit confused, anyway.  When did functional programming become
> outdated?

Preferred style these days is to use list comprehensions instead of
map and zip.


From http  Tue Mar 30 03:08:51 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 00:08:51 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <7xk712iwoc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
> with a function like a closure of sorts?
> 
> In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs ands
> or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?

Well, that's not how Python does it, though doing it some other way may
not necessarily be "fragile".


From k.robert at gmx.de  Tue Mar 23 06:42:12 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:42:12 +0100
Subject: webbrowser.open_new alternatives for Windows (Mozialla, IE,
	Netscape..)
References: <19804fd8.0403220505.509b6ee2@posting.google.com>
	<Z8P7c.10691$A_2.608926@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c3p7r0$2cvo$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>

os.startfile opening new... : that not true with my current setup : py23 +
Mozills default (IE also):

only if moz not running, a quick 2-timer os.startfile like:
os.startfile("http://www.google.it"); os.startfile("http://www.google.de")
creates 2 windows. if moz already running, then it opens always in last
actived browser window ?

think also webbrowser.open(_new) does nothing else than os.startfile !?
did not find any suitable alternative for open_new. thats really a lack in
the lib and cannot imagine nooneelse needs that?

for moz i found: mozilla.exe -remote openURL('www.mozilla.org',new-tab)
www.mozilla.org
seems I have to scan registry and fiddle such stuff for the top5 of
browsers.

Does anybody know where the windows default brower is set officially in the
registry?

Robert

PS:  the example > mozilla.exe -remote openURL('www.mozilla.org',new-tab)
www.mozilla.org  <  is supposed to open even in new tab! not completely new
window. however it opens always a new window. is this a mozilla bug?


"Pierre Rouleau" <prouleau at impathnetworks.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Z8P7c.10691$A_2.608926 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> Robert wrote:
>
> > how can i open a _NEW_ browser window on Windows ?
> > (It should be browser independent. at least for IE, Mozilla &
> > Netscape)
> >
> > i found a snippet/suggestion for "IE only" in this group but it
> > doesn't work, open also in old window:
> >
> >
> > from win32com.client import Dispatch
> > def start(url):
> >     w=Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
> >     w.Navigate2(url)
> >     w.visible=1
> > start("http://www.python.org")
> > start("http://www.zope.com")
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert
>
> Under Windows, you can use os.startfile() to start the application
> associated with the file extension:
>
>  >>> fname = 'c:/dev/python/_doc/python.html'
>  >>> import os
>  >>> os.startfile(fname)
>
>
> You will launch a new browser instance for each os.startfile() and it
> will launch the default browser, whatever it is.
>
> Pierre
>





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar 23 12:40:21 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:40:21 -0700
Subject: Suitability of python to specific project
References: <200403231722.i2NHMCb27223@omail2.walla.co.il>
Message-ID: <02b801c410fd$ead03360$6500a8c0@YODA>

Bob wrote:
> My question is, to what extent is python suitable for these tasks and how
reliable is it in relation to each one of them?

Hi Bob,

Suitability of course depends on lots of things, but if it's similar to "has
been used successfully in applications currently in production use", then
you're probably good to go:

> The project will use wxPython for the user-interface
> it will use python for multi-threading (but not for very heavy computation,
> for communication inside a local network (including network overload
avoidance considerations)
> for database operations (probably using sqlite and postgres),
> for general computations
> and simple file manipulations,
> and maybe for communicating with a server on the internet.

At one time or another I've used all of these in production applications.

> It will not necessarily involve heavy computation, but may sometimes want to
transfer large amounts of data through
> different computers on the network.

For computation-intensive stuff you may end up calling out to a C/C++ library,
but not necessarily for file transfers (you can if you want, of course, but for
file transfers Python can easily exceed the capacity of a 100 Mbps network if
you want it to).

> It will also involve interaction with special hardware which will be
implemented in C++.

If your code is (or can be) in DLL form, take a look at ctypes - IMO it's
hands-down the easiest way to call C code. But if that's not possible,
Pyrex/SWIG/etc are good options too.

-Dave




From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Wed Mar 17 18:12:55 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 15:12:55 -0800
Subject: Unicode and UrlEncode!
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0403171512.8a276d4@posting.google.com>

I am trying to translate some French via Google.

Here is my code.

# -*- coding: latin-1 -*-

import httplib, urllib, re

def translate_french_to_english(french):
    params = urllib.urlencode( {'text': french, 'langpair': 'fr|en',
'hl':'en', 'ie':'UTF8', 'oe':'UTF8'} )
    print params
    headers = {"Content-type": "application/x-www-form-urlencoded",
"Accept": "text/plain"}
    Cn = httplib.HTTPConnection("translate.google.com")
    Cn.request("POST", "/translate_t", params, headers)
    response = Cn.getresponse()
    data = response.read()
    Cn.close()
    match = re.compile('<textarea name=q
.*?>(.*?)</textarea>').search(data)
    translated = match.groups()[0]
    return translated

print translate_french_to_english('s?dimentation')

The problem is my params in encoding to
langpair=fr%7Cen&text=s%C8dimentation&oe=UTF8&ie=UTF8&hl=en
-- s%C8dimentation --
when it should encode to
text=s%C3%88dimentation&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8
-- s%C3%88dimentation --

What should I do?


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Wed Mar  3 02:56:21 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:56:21 +0200
Subject: ELF object file analysis tool in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1078283454.728.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.15.1078283454.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40458FA5.40807@zoran.com>

Hello John,

> I already googled and only turned up some references dating from 2000.
> Anybody know of any current Python tool that can open up and dissect
> information from an ELF (Executable and Linking Format) object file? I don't
> care about machine language stuff, but goodies like what sources were used
> in the compile, and what routines are used.

Just parse the output of `objdump -g'. Note that some compiler (such as 
MSVC) save the debug information in a different file (.pdb).

HTH.
Miki



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 12:38:04 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:38:04 -0600
Subject: Unicode (Japanese) fonts in Images
In-Reply-To: <Xns94A7B1959BC78crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.205>
References: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>
	<mailman.181.1078850811.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94A7B1959BC78crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.205>
Message-ID: <20040309173804.GK12662@unpythonic.net>

> > On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 23:12, Rich wrote:
> >> kanji = u'\ufffe\ua295\uc07b
On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:21:11PM +0000, Rich wrote:
> I thought that saving them in notepad as unicode, then opening that in a 
> hex editor and using the values was the way forward but obviously not :(

The file which looked like
    FF FE A2 95 C0 7B
is a probably utf-16 encoded with a BOM (byte-order mark) at the beginning.

You can convert this into a Python unicode string like so:
    >>> "\xff\xfe\xa2\x95\xc0\x7b".decode('utf-16')
    u'\u95a2\u7bc0'
On my system, printing this to my terminal shows a pair of japanese-looking
symbols.

Jeff



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 23:35:14 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:35:14 -0800
Subject: Vector math
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.24.03.52.35.703059@NOSPAMml1.net>
References: <pan.2004.03.24.03.52.35.703059@NOSPAMml1.net>
Message-ID: <c3r3bu$3ci$2@news.service.uci.edu>

Tyler Eaves wrote:

> I'm look for a module that can do the following operations on vectors
> 
> - Cross product
> - Angle between two vectors
> - rotate a 3d point around an arbitrary axis by an arbitrary amount. 
> 
> Actually, the 3 are related. The net effect of rotating around a cross
> product of two vectors by the angle between them is to essentially realign
> a vector from one coordinate system.
> 

Check numarray:
http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray
and Numeric Python:
http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/

  - Josiah


From no at spam.invalid  Tue Mar  2 14:45:29 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:45:29 -0800
Subject: tkFileDialog.askdirectory root directory ?
References: <c206mk$lmi$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <c22o8q$chq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <c206mk$lmi$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl>,
 "Ringwraith" <atmo at go2.pl> wrote:

>I have the following problem. I use the tkFileDialog.askdirectory dialog to
>allow users of my application to pick some subfolder from 'C:/my_app'
>directory. I use initialdir='C:/my_app' option to set 'C:/my_app' as initial
>directory. But I want my initial directory to be also a root directory, so
>the user cannot pick any directory outside 'C:/my_app'  folder. I have no
>idea how to do it using standard  tkFileDialog.askdirectory. Is that
>possible?

Some possible solutions:
- Write your own version that does this, e.g. via bindings that detect 
when the user tries to change directory and screens the requested 
change. Unfortunately, from a quick look at tkFileDialog, I did not see 
any easy way to adapt the existing code; unless I missed something you 
may have to pretty much code from scratch.
- Allow the user to select anything, but then test it and reject it if 
it doesn't meet your requirements. This is trivial to code, but a pain 
for the user.
- See if you can redesign your code to eliminate the requirement.

-- Russell


From yaipa at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 01:08:04 2004
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 22:08:04 -0800
Subject: Pyrex talks from Pycon
References: <mailman.35.1080540639.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0403302208.4c1a41f7@posting.google.com>

Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.35.1080540639.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> PyCon 2004 Slides on "Extending Python with Pyrex"
>   PDF: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/ExtendingPythonWithPyrex.pdf
>   PPT: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/ExtendingPythonWithPyrex.ppt
> 
> Pycon 2004 Slides on "Optimizing Python code with Pyrex"
>   PDF: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/OptimizingPythonWithPyrex.pdf
>   PPT: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/OptimizingPythonWithPyrex.ppt
> 
> I hope this helps me. Please report any mistakes.
> 
>   Paul Prescod

Paul,

Thanks for the post. It will help get around to playing with it.

  --Alan


From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 14:08:45 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:08:45 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403221108.7f5edd26@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote...
> from HOW.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
> import HOW.MODULE.NAMES as RENAME
> 
> Where HOW is of the form:
> -<INTEGER>[.PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]
> [PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]

+1. (I know I'm late :)

> [snip]
> I think such behavior is clear enough magical syntax, what do others think?

Very readable, doesn't use any new magical names - and numbers have no
other use in import statements anyway. There is something different in
it, in a positive sense.

I'll miss the current behavior of import, though. Somehow it feels
more intuitive to me. Oh, well, practicality beats purity - or
personal taste...

Cheers,

AdSR


From bob at redivi.com  Mon Mar  8 07:36:41 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:36:41 -0500
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
References: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<onod401p4rjbe9kuu10q6518l93ds7rks3@4ax.com>
	<Xns94A5F27CA6E69GaylordOfKewaskum@209.242.86.10>
Message-ID: <2004030807364150073%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-07 00:26:32 -0500, Walter Huf <hufman at cobalty.com> said:

> 
> 
>> import msvcrt
>> ...
>> msvcrt.setmode( stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY )
> 
> Now, what would I do if I want to do the same in Unix/Linux?

Windows is the only operating system that I know of that tries to 
translate stdout.  You wouldn't have had the problem in the first place 
anywhere else.

-bob



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar 30 14:43:05 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:43:05 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.77.1080592548.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4bvod$fm8$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<yJaaAls/KH3A089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <c4cik9$b8u$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Mel Wilson wrote:

> Or I could see (untested code)
> 
> 
> import random, sys
> 
> def fortunes (infile):
>     return infile.read().split ('\n%\n')
> 
> def findfortune (filename):
>     return random.choice (fortunes (file (filename, 'rt'))
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     print findfortune (sys.argv[1])

That's what I meant with "in Python I would suggest to relax and process the
whole file as a string or list of lines" in my above post. The point of my
solution is to never have (a) the whole file in memory and (b) to make a
random choice from a set of (initially) unknown size while you go through
it.

Peter



From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 24 14:32:50 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:32:50 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3snp3$2bbe7o$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

I'm just going to answer these few points, since static vs dynamic 
typing has been hashed to death before. Please also note that I'm by no 
means trying to change your opinion on the matter, I see this more as a 
panel style debate.

> Forgive me if I am wrong ... but typeful programming is more of a
> programming style rather than a property of a (static) type system, is
> it not? I realize that Haskell encourages typeful programming by its
> very nature, but that doesn't make typeful programming an property of
> the type system.

Yes, it's not really a requirement of the type system. In fact dynamic 
typing can be simulated by a polymorphic static type system (I haven't 
got the reference handy, follow up if you're interested), leading to the 
argument that they're strictly more powerful (you can do one in the 
other, but not the other way around) though of course not in a Turing sense.

So, it's a style, though i.e. the typeclasses in Haskell makes it a good 
fit. The same is true of unittesting as you go, though, there's nothing 
in dynamic typing to enforce it.

But the interesting point is whether static type systems somehow 
magically makes good programmers from bad, and that's not true IMHO. 
That's not to say that I prefer a bad programmer from having a static 
type system, the more hurdles you place in the way of the truly bad 
programmers of which industry is chock full (as a student of mine with 
experience from industry once exclaimed: "But most programmers are 
BAD!"). I'm talking about any type of static type system here, while I'd 
say that the type system of 'C' isn't that much of hinderance to the 
gifted, it decreases the productivity of the clods to managable 
proportions (I'm talking about the programmers with negative 
productivity here).

In this setting I'd say that Java is a win, though I wouldn't recommend 
it in a setting where most people actually knew what they were doing. 
For that setting I prefer a better static type system, one that helps. I 
consider myself a fair programmer with quite a few years experience and 
I still make silly mistakes all the time, mistakes that take longer to 
find in Python, unit test or no unit test, than they would have in e.g. 
O'Caml.

> (I am not sufficiently familiar with typeful programming or Haskell,
> in a real-life situation, so do correct me if you think I am wrong.)

Well, in truth I haven't been involved in a true multi person project 
with Haskell so I don't have any data. A problem here is that I have yet 
to see a Haskell programmer versed in typeful programming that couldn't 
do well given just about any programming language. I'd fall in the old 
"Well of course *they* succeeded they're geniouses".

> What I object to, is the
> suggestions that static type systems somehow provide some significant
> safety for free. What I object to even more, is the suggestion that
> static type systems are _necessary_ to prevent any development process
> from turning into an unmitigated disaster. 

No magic bullet IMHO. That depends completely on the situation. Then 
again I've found that any enforcement mechanism helps. The harder it 
becomes to skirt the requirements of the process the more it will be 
followed. A type system has an advantage here in that it *cannot* be 
circumvented while it's trivial to write no or bad unit test so that you 
can ship your code to the integration step.

If you have good, experienced people who are able to withstand the 
pressure to deliver no matter what and are familiar with the problem 
domain, then any project is on the way to succeess no matter what 
technology was chosen in my experience. The choice of type system is way 
down on the list.

We've had that argument within Ericsson time and time again with the 
Erlang people at the AXD 301 project (who were the first adopters and 
many of which helped develop the language and its tools and who were all 
very experienced in the problem domain having been involved in the 
failed AXEn project) tell us time and time again that dynamic typing is 
no problem because "we just don't make those kinds of errors" and we'll 
find it in testing, programming with a fail-fast mind set. We in the GSN 
division (who were the second adopters, didn't have much input in the 
language, didn't really choose Erlang as much as were forced into it and 
are building a brand new product in a new domain) answer; "Well, we're 
not so certain, that's not entirely our experience, we'd like a bit more 
hand holding to be able to find the errors sooner".

It's interesting to note that Ericsson drew the conclusion that C++ was 
to blaim for the failed billion dollar AXEn project. Of course the 
choice of language had very little to do with that.

> Well, let's not get too
> excited ... what I object to are suggestions that Java is more
> suitable for programming projects _because_ it has a static type
> system.

No disagreement here. :-)

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  2 10:39:22 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:39:22 -0500
Subject: Escape problem
References: <f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c229rb$mc8$1@sea.gmane.org>


<ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac at posting.google.com...
> Hi
> I am developing a web application.
> I have a string 'foo"bar"' say in variable s.
> When I print s on the python shell it prints correctly 'foo"bar"'
> whereas when I try to display s on the form it just prints 'foo'. What
> should I do to print complete string 'foo"bar"' on the form

If I understand correctly, you are trying to print a string with an
embedded double quote ("), which html interpretes as a metachar rather than
as content.  Isn't there an entity reference for the double quote char?
named 'quote' maybe?

tjr






From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar  8 14:53:06 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:53:06 -0700
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<2ae25c6b.0403072223.7ab1acb1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vhip40tm2mjuqjrkjutvrjjaf9qc2rg8oc@4ax.com>

On 7 Mar 2004 22:23:45 -0800, paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
wrote:
>I'm also in the Industry, but I find a different set of problems. I should 
>first explain that I have worked mainly on Unix Design flows for ASICS and
>PCBs. I find that one problem is that the EDA industry was quite quick in 
>embedding scripting languages in their tools; Simulators embedding TCL, 
>Layout tools embedding some form of scheme/Lisp, and Synthesizers with TCL.

At least Lisp and TCL have support communities.  The CPL's I've had to
deal with don't even have support across the whole company.  Every
faction has its own language.  It was in wading through the LRM (
Language Reference Manual ) on one of these languages, struggling
through all the basic definition of literal constants, use of quotes,
etc. that I came to the realization that the CPL's will never get the
basic stuff right, and the more complex stuff can be done by extending
a good language like Python.

>If an engineer wants to learn a programming language then they are pulled 
>towards learning the language in their tools. 
>Other, more adventurous/capable engineers get seduced by Perl I think 
>because they will know csh or bash and have some grasp of sed/grep regular
>expressions. To them, the Perl one liner sed/grep replacement is 
>decipherable with a little help. They don't notice until too late that they
>are writting 50+ lines of Perl that needs to work in 2 years time, and must 
>be ported to another project in four months time. They just get hit with 
>the porting and maintenance problem *after* they have invested in learning
>Perl and can't believe that Python would be better. They learned by doing 
>the one-liner and expanding from that. One-liners in Python are, rare.
>
>The Person that already knows Perl will then conveniently forget about the 
>warts when a new designer wants to learn a 'scripting language' and will 
>point them at perl too.

I've encountered two types.  Most of the engineers I know would puke
over Perl.  They are totally focused on circuit design, and have no
time to learn programming.  The folks who dedicate themselves to the
programming side, however, tend to develop a "vested interest" in the
complexity.  They have shelves full of Perl books, and they *want* the
engineers to come to them with problems.  It's a little like lawyers
and legalese.

>Re-reading your mail, I guess we are in agreement. You have pointed out how 
>other languages are 'better' at one line string manipulation problems.
>
>Maybe what would help would be a Python 'bridge' language aimed specifically 
>at short/interactive progs, maybe something like IPython, but any such 
>language would then need a converter to Python for when that 20 line script 
>grows into a larger program.

Oh, this worries me.  I know I can get all the special functions I
need by extending existing classes, but I'm hesitating to do even
that.  For the string example in the current discussion, I would
rather stick to the simple, but more verbose basic Python, at least
until the day we can have elegance without sacrificing simplicity.
Ruby has shown that both are possible with string ops, but not enough
to make me abandon Python, or even develop my own extensions to the
regular string and list classes.

-- Dave



From j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net  Tue Mar 30 08:07:18 2004
From: j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net (Jon Willeke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:07:18 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.108.1080635640.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c4ba4d$i9g$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.108.1080635640.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aieac.9866$hS3.8101@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:11:55 +0800
> "Phipps Xue" <phipps.xue at sap.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>pyGTK is also a good GUI frameworks but it's not available now for
>>windows platform. I suppose it's its most important shortage.
> 
> 
> I'm developing for Linux, so that's less of an issue for me....  Although I did check out the pyGTK module we've got installed here at work and it seems very slightly different from the version in the pyGTL tutorials(mainloop() instead of main_loop(), GtkWindow() instead of Window()...)

I can't vouch for it, but the following FAQ entry describes using PyGTK 
on Windows:

<http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq21.012.htp>

If you're going to evaluate PyGTK, do yourself a favor and look at 2.0, 
or later.  If it has GtkWindow, it's ancient.  If it has gtk.Window, 
it's recent.  While a GUI builder isn't essential, I recommend also 
looking at GLADE 2 and libglade.


From http  Thu Mar 25 05:36:09 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 02:36:09 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403240124.2a80e784@posting.google.com>
	<4ql8c.42261$ct5.13462@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403250207.41600412@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xu10ddxie.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> > I was thinking the same.  How about something like:
> > 
> >    bigNumber = long(bigNumberString, 256)
> > 
> >    bigNumberString = bigNumber.tostring()
> 
> If this is something you want, file a feature request on SF.

I made a request like that a long while ago.  Guido suggested that it
be added to the binascii module, if I remember right.  See SF # 465045
but there may have been another one elsewhere as well.


From ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com  Thu Mar  4 08:24:52 2004
From: ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 05:24:52 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi>...
> >>>>> "R" == R Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com> writes:
> 
>     R> [Well, this time I have decided to troll -- all because of
> 
> Ok, I get the drift.

   Mr.Ville Vainio, I really impressed by your detector and the way
you snip others' comments. Thanks.

>     >> Can you tell me exactly what the PHP fwrite function did when I
>     >> passed it an integer? Can you tell me how many PHP programmers
>     >> test "(strlen($to_write) == fwrite($fp, $to_write))"?
> 
> 
>     R> Ok...understand. idiot-proof?
> 
> So type safety means idiot-proofing? What do you gain by allowing
> obvious errors to be silently ignored?
> 
> When a third-party library returns an object you didn't expect in
> writing your code, you would surely want to know? I do.

   If you do *programming* without knowing what to pass to a function
or what a function returns, you're a complete idiot as a idiot can be.
Moreover, if you take it as an argument against PHP, you're yet
another ignorant and obviously you don't have any rights to speak
about PHP nor anything.


>     >> - In the specific instance of database connectivity, Python is
>     >> far superior, in terms of intuitiveness, security, safety, and
>     >> so on.  Python database APIs are built in a way that protects
>     >> you by default.
> 
>     R> Perhaps, idiots' own language?
> 
> You still realize this is crossposted to c.l.py, right? Kindergarten
> tactics don't erally work all that well here.

   Huh?? So..here, where you stand??

> Some observer of this
> discussion might draw some conclusions about which one of the
> languages is the "idiot's own language"...

   Yes, people with functioning brain may already conculded that when
you posted your previous message itself.

>     >> How easy is it to improve on both these examples to add proper
>     >> error handling? Again, Python wins hands down for elegance,
>     >> conciseness, and obviousness.
> 
>     R> Yes, agreed. Idiots' language.
> 
> Yes, elegance is indeed for idiots. True r0xx0r h4xxx0rz use PHP,
> because it's so cryptic and looks cool because n00bs can't understand
> it.

   If you post these jottings to the PHP ignorants, they may even
build a statue for you. But, I guess, it is hard to get that kind of
ignorants.


>     R> comp.lang.php is not the right place for you to show your
>     R> stupidity. You should consider stripping headers as many other
> 
> Neither is c.l.py. Actually, we have remarkably few idiots in c.l.py.

   No problem. I could see here itself
<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=403fa54b%40news.zianet.com>

> I don't know why I'm replying - your post kinda speaks for itself.

   Thanks Mr.Ville Vainio for sparing your time to provide brilliant
comments.

   HTH. HAND.

-- 
 From comp.lang.php
 "I don't believe in the God who doesn't give me food, but shows me
heaven!"--Swami Vivekanandha
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 11 19:52:58 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:52:58 +0200
Subject: Python database
In-Reply-To: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <c2r1nb$c00$5@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello None,

> Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? 
IIRC `metakit' is very simple to use.

 > As far as I have understood there is no standard data base in Python.
 > Why is this so? Do people have too different needs?
I think the `anydbm' module is what you're looking for.

HTH.
Miki


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 12:26:21 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:26:21 GMT
Subject: mounting network drives in macosx
References: <560d84ab.0403030701.2454d4c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1zo1c.31758$TF2.14734@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

It depends if you want to mount via NFS, SAMBA (windoze like), or other.
Once you figure that out, google for python os commands,
that may get you started.
there may be seperate modules for macosx.

"Joe" <heavens7s at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:560d84ab.0403030701.2454d4c3 at posting.google.com...
> Is there a way to mount a network share from within Python on MacOSX?
> I imagine it would be the same as for Unix, but I don't know how to do
> it for Unix either.  I have searched python.org and googled a lot
> without success.  Any help here is greatly appreciated.  Thanks all!




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Mar  4 05:54:06 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:54:06 +0100
Subject: Efficiently test for positive re.match then use the result?
References: <20040303102526934-0800@news.qwest.net>
Message-ID: <c271se$mkq$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

elmlish wrote:
> I'm currently befuddled as to how to efficiently test for a positive
> re. match then use the results of that match in a function.

If you do this often, you might want to define a generator function:

def reMatches (iterator, patternString):
    rex = re.compile (patternString)
    for text in iterator:
        match = rex.match (text)
        if match:
            yield match

This can be used as
for match in reMatches (file (fname), 'href="([^"]*)"'):
    print match.group (0)

Variations include:
- reSearch to use the search instead of the match method
- allow to pass a string or a compiled regular expression as the second
parameter to reMatches
- find all the matches in a line and returning each with a separate yield

Daniel





From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 14:23:11 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:23:11 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.26.1079372001.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:33:04 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>
wrote:

>This is guaranteed to work:
>    x = None
>    y = None
>    assert x is y
>by the following text in the language manual:
>        None
>            This type has a single value. There is a single object with
>            this value. This object is accessed through the built-in
>            name None.  It is used to signify the absence of a value in
>            many situations, e.g., it is returned from functions that
>            don't explicitly return anything. Its truth value is false.
>There are reams of code that rely on the object identity of None, so a
>special debug mode where "x = <some literal>" makes x refer to something
>that has a refcount of 1 will break code.
>
>The 'is' guarantee applies to at least these built-in values:
>    None Ellipsis NotImplemented True False

This certainly complicates things.  I *wish* they had not made this
"single object" statement.  Why should how things are stored
internally matter to the user?  We could have just as easily worked
with x == y, but now, as you say, it may be too late.

The same problem occurs with strings (some strings at least):
>>> x = 'abcdefghighklmnop'
>>> y = 'abcdefghighklmnop'
>>> x is y
True
>>> x = 'abc xyz'
>>> y = 'abc xyz'
>>> x is y
False

Since there is no simple way for the user to distinguish these cases,
it looks like we might break some code if the storage of equal objects
changes.  The change would have to be for "debug" mode only, and for
only the modules the user specifically imports in debug mode.  We
would need a big, bold warning that you should not use 'is'
comparisons in cases like the above, at least for any objects from
modules that are imported in debug mode.

>The only problem I can see with reload() is that it doesn't do what you
>want.  But on the other hand, what reload() does is perfectly well
>defined, and at least the avenues I've seen explored for "enhancing" it
>look, well, like train wreck.

It's worse than just a misunderstanding.  It's a serious limitation on
what we can do with editing a running program.  I don't agree that
what it does now is well defined (at least not in the documentation).
The discussion in Learning Python is totally misleading.  We should at
least update the description of the reload function in the Python
Library Reference.  See the thread "Reload Confusion" for some
suggested text.

-- Dave



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 20 14:30:20 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 14:30:20 -0500
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c3i64c$q01$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <877jxguj53.fsf at hydra.localdomain>,
Kurt B. Kaiser <kbk at shore.net> wrote:
>
>Threads are fine.  

This surprises me a bit.  I know the sysadmins of my NetBSD shell
provider have had perennial difficulty compiling Python with threads
enabled.  Is there anyone who uses Python with threads on NetBSD?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  9 14:06:58 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:06:58 -0500
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff
	in__builtins__
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch> <104rjfeotprjqdc@news.supernews.com>
	<404dfe36$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <c2l4kh$9tc$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Remy Blank" <remy.blank_asps at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:404dfe36$1 at epflnews.epfl.ch...
> John Roth wrote:
> > Yes. It's never a good idea to replace stuff on the system
> > level, and some day it might become impossible.
>
> That's too bad. When test-driving code in C++, you have to use an
> abstraction layer between your code and the file system accessors, to be
> able to replace it by a mock object for testing. I always thought it was
> an advantage of Python to be able to use the "native" calls and still
> replace them by stubs for testing purposes.

If I understand you correctly, you could put everything meant to
replace/mask constants/functions in the builtins in test_builtins.py and
'from test_builtins import *' or explicitly import a subset as appropriate.

 Terry J. Reedy






From claird at lairds.com  Fri Mar 19 01:36:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:36:37 -0000
Subject: batching script on the web
References: <c2403dab.0403182144.666927f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105l57lrq3aak00@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c2403dab.0403182144.666927f8 at posting.google.com>,
cristobal <cris.tobal at free.fr> wrote:
>I all, 
>
>I'd like to make a script that can request pages on the web, put some
>information on a web page like login and password, as if I had done it
>through a mozilla interface. Through a sery of clic, I'll get a page
>that I like to parse to fetch some information. (This must be able to
>go through https connection.)
>
>If some one can give me indication how to begin with this, it will be
>very helpfull. My main problem is to maitain a session with the
>serveur, it's not only a problem to get url, but sequence of "clic"
>while keeping a http session open on the server side.
			.
			.
			.
Does <URL: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0302h/ > help?
Briefly, there are several ways "to maintain a session", and, at the
Python level, it takes a bit of work to determine which is operative
in your case, and implement an automation.  It's certainly feasible; 
it takes a bit of work.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From wweston at att.net  Wed Mar 24 14:06:19 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:06:19 GMT
Subject: Python newbie asking for help
In-Reply-To: <bd37f143.0403241044.2add9a5c@posting.google.com>
References: <bd37f143.0403241044.2add9a5c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <L_k8c.31776$PY1.607620@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Bill Hamblen wrote:
> Hi,
>                                                                                 
> I'm teaching myself Python for fun.  I've picked a little project that
> is interesting to me.  I've made some progress over the last couple
> nights, mostly reading Guido's tutorial, but I think it would go a lot
> more quickly if I had some advice from experienced Python programmers.
> I think what I really need is a suggestion on the best data structure(s)
> to use.  Here's what I am doing.
>                                                                                 
> I have three files with csv records (lines).  We can have column headers
> at the top of each file if that helps.  The first field in each record
> is a name; otherwise the files mostly contain different data.  I'd like
> to create unique id numbers (in a new column) so that names which appear
> in more than one file have the same id number in each file.  And of
> course every line in every file should end up with an id number.
>                                                                                 
> The catch is that while most names will appear in every file, some will
> not.  Worse yet, there are names that will have different forms in
> different files (e.g.  Smith_Bill and Smith_William).  That last group I
> would like to "manually" process.  Maybe by popping up a tkinter listbox
> with all records that match "Smith".  Then I could select the ones which
> *really* match and give them a uniform id number.
>                                                                                 
> The good news is that I have already made sure that there are no
> duplicate name fields in any one file.
>                                                                                 
> Speed is a total non-issue here since it only has to run once for a
> given set of files.  And no, this is not for merging spam lists!  :-)
> I'm trying to make it easier to merge sets of projected statistics for
> fantasy baseball every spring.  I do most of the processing in a
> spreadsheet but I thought indexing the sets of projections would be a
> fun way to learn Python.
>                                                                                 
> I read each file into a list of lists (using a csv module for Python
> 2.2).  I've already added a new first column to hold the id number (so
> name is now in the second column).  For example, lst1 looks like this:
>                                                                                 
> [['', 'name1_fname', 'team', 'pos, ...],['', 'name2_fname', ...], ...]
>                                                                                 
> I've got two search functions: one which looks for exact name matches
> and one which looks for last name matches (which I now notice needs to
> be made insensitive to capitalization).
> 
> def search_exact(l, c, v):
>    result=[]
>    for r in l:
>       if r[c] == v:
>          result.append(r)
>    return result
>                                                                                 
> def search_lastname(l, c, v):
>    result=[]
>    for r in l:
>       if split(r[c],'_')[0] == v:
>          result.append(r)
>    return result
>                                                                                 
> The main loop
>                                                                                 
> id = 0
> for lst in [lst1, lst2, lst3]:
>    for row in lst:
>       if row[0] <> '':  #if it already has an id, skip it
>          continue
>       else:
>          match=[]
>          for ls in [lst1, lst2, lst3]:
>             tmp = search_exact(ls, 1, row[1])
>             if tmp <> []:
>                match.append(tmp)
>          if len(match) == 3:
>             #every file had one exact match
>             #so assign an id number
>             for i in match:
>                i[0] = id
>                id = id + 1
>          else:
>             match = []
>             for ls in [lst1, lst2, lst3]:
>                tmp = search_lst(ls, 1, split(row[1],'_')[0])
>                if tmp <> []:
>                   match.append(tmp)
>             #pop up a tkinter window and manually select matches
>             #assign an id number to selected entries
> #write out modified files
>                                                                                 
> The problem I ran into is that the objects in "match" are not references
> to the actual data in the lstX structures but copies.  So I cannot just
> change the id field the way I have things written.  Based on my reading
> I thought all the operations I used worked with references but I clearly
> missed something.
>                                                                                 
> So, I'm getting the feeling that there is probably a *much* better way
> to do this.  :-) Any suggestions?
>                                                                                 
>  - Bill

#for i in match:
#	i[0] = id
#        id = id + 1

for i in range(len(match)):
	match[i] = id
         id = id + 1



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 10 05:49:30 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 05:49:30 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<104q64b2uf3nl0b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c2mrrq$1k7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <104q64b2uf3nl0b at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
>I think this is a serious conceptual issue, and I'd prefer to not
>support upwards references at all.  That doesn't mean they should be
>prohibited, but if someone wants to dig a pit for himself with circular
>coupling across module hierarchies, then he should be required to
>wield the shovel himself. It is not, after all, that difficult to
>sort through sys.modules to figure out where you are in the import
>hierarchy.

While that makes some sense, what about "uncle" references within the
current package?

>That leaves references to the current package.  I'm going to suggest an
>"*" as an indicator for "this package." The reason for an asterisk is
>my background in mainframe assembler: it means "here" in that language,
>so I'm obviously not particularly attached to it. It's also already in
>use in the "from foo import *" syntax.
>
>A reference beginning in the current directory is thus:
>
>import *.spam.eggs

That's functionally equivalent to the suggested

import .spam.eggs
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Mar 20 17:16:11 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 23:16:11 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com> <x71xnzhvb7.fsf@handshake.de>
	<2c60a528.0403150152.6af7f53f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x77jxfupuc.fsf@handshake.de>

and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) writes on 15 Mar 2004 01:52:33 -0800:
> Dieter Maurer <dieter at handshake.de> wrote:
> 
> > This will break lots of code...
> 
> That's why it's a __future__ option.

But you plan, to make it the standard at some point...

> > A package writer does know which external modules/packages he needs
> > and can avoid to use the name of one of these modules for his
> > own modules.
> 
> But it's not just used in packages, where the filenames of sibling
> modules are known. There may be scripts in directories with many
> unrelated files, for which relative importing would be highly
> undesirable (or even, in a directory where someone other than the
> owner has write-access, a possible security risk).

Python explicitely adds the directory it finds a script in to the front
of "sys.path". I think it does this because it expects a high
chance that the script *needs* to access modules in this directory.

The behaviour would stay so even when the PEP is implemented,
as all directory listed in "sys.path" are defining what is
considered root level in an "absolute" reference.

> > Relative imports are essential to enhance locality.
> 
> Sure. But we need to separate relative and absolute imports. The status
> quo is inconsistent (sometimes it's relative, sometimes it's not) and
> trips people up. Making the current syntax do an absolute rather than a
> relative import is a good choice because:
> 
>   - in general, absolute imports are used more often;
> 
>   - a proper relative import mechanism requires the ability to 'go up'
>     which can't currently be done, so we'd be inventing new syntax for
>     it anyway.

What about inventing a syntax for absolute imports as well
(and let the behaviour of unadorned imports as it is now).


Dieter


From jeff at spamisnotmything.alanne.com  Fri Mar  5 17:52:33 2004
From: jeff at spamisnotmything.alanne.com (Jeff Duffy)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:52:33 -0500
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
In-Reply-To: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
Message-ID: <Mw72c.28836$UU.21652@lakeread01>

Chad Haynes wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have a wxPython application that I want to create an executable from. 
>  Using py2exe produces a program that works very well, but the 
> appearance is slightly different than when it was run from the command 
> line.  The py2exe version is a little more bland.  Here are links to 
> some screenshots:
> 
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/dos.jpg
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/py2exe.jpg
> 
> I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

  I've have the same problem. No solution yet (I'm still poking at it), 
but I noticed that the resultant GUI looks more like Win2K, as if 
perhaps the widget set that results is always in 'classic mode'. Odd.

Jeff


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 10:36:28 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:36:28 -0600
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <16480.22908.618865.215614@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Skip> It will probably be a BDFL pronouncement.  After all, that's why
    Skip> he's the

    Ville> Of course it will - still, that didn't stop us from voting before
    Ville> :-).

You have my approval to hold a vote.  Based on the results of the ternary
operator vote, I think it best that any results you gather not be appended
to PEP 318. :-)

Skip



From geskerrett at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  1 20:03:20 2004
From: geskerrett at hotmail.com (Geoffrey)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 17:03:20 -0800
Subject: Getting Python/IIS/ASP to work
References: <mailman.2.1078090098.2828.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6b26402d.0403011703.26ccefda@posting.google.com>

> 
> HTH. Feel free to ask more questions.
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org

Thanks Robert.
Turns out I can't get a vbscript ASP page to work either, so I must
have something wrong with my config of IIS.

Geoff.


From raims at dot.com  Mon Mar  8 17:42:26 2004
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:42:26 +0100
Subject: no inline comments
References: <f20ea932.0403071013.2d5e734c@posting.google.com>
	<s5ovemxbkt98$.13eip0ev07e55$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<104n2n9eklui58f@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <votl81j2w33l.yikg2yt8b632$.dlg@40tude.net>

In data Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:47:54 -0500, John Roth ha scritto:

> That's not a comment. It's a string. Try putting
> it in the middle of another statement and you'll
> see the difference.
> 
> The reason it looks like a comment is that a string,
> all by itself, is a perfectly valid expression, so you
> can put one wherever you could put a statement.

Yeah you're right but sometimes you can use """blahblah"""
as a comment... and to be honest i didn't ever need a /* */ comment
in Python

-- 
Lawrence
"ain't nothin' but fun."


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sun Mar 14 18:35:05 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:35:05 +1100
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
In-Reply-To: <20040314211953.GA9639@unpythonic.net>
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
	<mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list@python.org>
	<4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
	<20040314211953.GA9639@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20040314233505.GB32275@frobozz>

On Sun, Mar 14, 2004 at 03:19:53PM -0600, Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 08:43:51AM +1300, Colin Brown wrote:
[...]
> >     2.    A common usage of sleep is with the difference of two values. If
> > it raises an exception on negative numbers then when one takes the
> > difference of say a timestamp and current-time (real-values), to be safe you
> > would need to put the difference in a temporary variable, check that for
> > negative and only sleep for positive values - not very elegant.
> 
> def unsurprising_sleep(d):
>     if d < 0: return
>     time.sleep(d)

Or even just:

time.sleep(max(d, 0))

-Andrew.




From daniel at dittmar.net  Mon Mar 29 16:03:32 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:03:32 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <7xvfknl8s6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<slrnc6fvnf.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<v7U9c.59619$cx5.21262@fed1read04>
	<7xvfknl8s6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c4a2vg$6ot$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Just as with numerical linear algebra or sorting or alpha-beta search,
> there are simple gc techniques that work ok, but getting really high
> performance is a well-studied subject with a lot of literature and
> lore about it.  I believe Andrew Appel wrote a book or survey paper
> on it in the early 90's that you might like to look at.

The book 'Garbage Collection'
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471941484/qid=1080593878/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-8877550-9073731?v=glance&s=books
has a chapter  on 'Cache-Conscious Garbage Collection'.

Daniel


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Mar  2 12:48:10 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01> <4043597F.30506@cs.com>
	<mailman.21.1078156622.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfd67v9wee.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1049i6sctepmb54@corp.supernews.com>

> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > One debugging feature that Python doesn't support is
> > "edit-while-debugging" (edit the function/method) you
> > just debug, something which is possible in VB and VC6,
> > for example)

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Sorry ... what do you mean by "edit while debugging" ?

You can set a breakpoint in a function, and while stopped at that breakpoint
you can edit the code in that same function. Then, you can continue
execution and it will execute your new code.

As much as I dislike C++, Visual Studio's Edit and Continue feature is a
huge benefit. I often write the skeleton of a function, start the program
and trace into the function, and then write the code right there with the
program running, with live data to test while coding.

You can also change the execution pointer while stopped at a breakpoint. So
you can write some code and test it, and then if you want to change the code
and test it again, just move the execution pointer back to the beginning of
your code.

-Mike




From DELIVERY_FAILURE%COLINX at colinx.com  Tue Mar 30 02:05:51 2004
From: DELIVERY_FAILURE%COLINX at colinx.com (DELIVERY_FAILURE%COLINX at colinx.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:05:51 -0500
Subject: DELIVERY FAILURE -- Detected a violation of the email-filter ruleset
Message-ID: <OFD3EF58EB.8EB6786C-ON85256E67.0026FCDF@colinx.com>

Your message was not delivered.





From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 22:27:45 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 19:27:45 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
 file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <7xhdwx4oxk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.151.1078807449.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7xoer6i2s7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c2l8oj$9c9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xhdwx4oxk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c2m24t$bv7$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> shm isn't for everyone, since it gives you all the standard hassles of
> concurrent programming.  But using IP sockets is really unnecessary on
> a local system.  You should use AF_UNIX sockets instead.  They have
> much less overhead than IP sockets.

Probably.

The vast majority of the stuff that I write that needs IPC is on 
Windows, so neither unix domain sockets nor shm is really available 
(unless cygwin is able to work its magic).

I suppose could probably muck around with some win32 extensions and have 
some special casing *nix/windows, but I'll probably end up sticking with 
async (or unix domain) sockets unless I /really/ need speed.  It is good 
to know that shm is around though.

  - Josiah


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 14:21:22 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:21:22 -0700
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.279.1079027533.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com> <c2ro0h$2sn$1@news.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <40520D71.C267B44@pobox.com>

An update to this advice I gave:

> 1. Don't use the quit method, instead just close your window.  Your QUIT
> button could perhaps use:
>       command=self.destroy
> 
> 2. Don't call mainloop() if IDLE already has one running.  Try this:
> 
> import sys
> if "idlelib" not in sys.modules:
>       root.mainloop()

This only works (on Windows, at least) if IDLE is _not_ running user
code in a subprocess.  I've not found any combination of options that
gets usable results (including the ability to introspect the program
while running) when using a subprocess.

Also, it seems to leave the process running forever if launched outside
of IDLE, even after all the windows are closed.  The simplest solution,
assuming a single-window application, seems to be giving the main window
a WM_DELETE_WINDOW protocol handler that does a self.quit(), but only if
IDLE isn't running (determined as shown above).

Here's a little inconsistency that had me really confused for a while:
IDLE, when run from the Start menu (Win2K Pro, Python 2.3.3), uses a subprocess.
IDLE, when run via "Open in IDLE" in a .py* file's right-click menu,
does NOT use a subprocess.
I haven't tracked down just where this difference is coming from.
	Jason Harper


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 18 12:58:03 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:58:03 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
	<4059deac.74176280@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <105jorolc069r50@news.supernews.com>

"Russell Wallace" <wallacethinmintr at eircom.net> wrote in message
news:4059deac.74176280 at news.eircom.net...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:15:57 -0500, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >How much real development (I don't mean archiving) do we do
> >today on systems without appropriate tools? Very little. The issue
> >isn't trying to develop on systems without appropriate tools, it's
> >developers that won't use tools that help them work.
>
> I'll happily use a fancy tool when I find one that doesn't suck. If
> and when that ever happens, I'll be willing to start considering using
> a language that requires such.

Well, two points. First, why does it have to be a "fancy"
tool? The only editors I use basically have syntax highlighting
and code folding (at least, I think that's what it's called.)
There are a lot of other features I'd like to have, but I'm not
about to spend time with a learning curve that needs a full
mountaineering outfit to scale.

Second, what is it about which tools that you don't like?
Be specific, I'm sure that at least some of the tool vendors
would like feedback on their pride and joy.

John Roth

>
> -- 
> "Sore wa himitsu desu."
> To reply by email, remove
> the small snack from address.
> http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 22:02:22 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:02:22 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.230.1078936428.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3clv4090hfldpataidbp4qqe70slogbvf5@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:34:03 +0100, gabor <gabor at z10n.net> wrote:

>the name 'exception' immediately means (for me at least) some kind of
>error condition.... 
>
>maybe if they had a different name, it would be easier to use them also
>by non-error-conditions.

But we can't use 'error'. If we did, of course we could use it for
exceptional non-errors, but people would expect it to mean something
exceptional, so they wouldn't want to use it for frequent errors.

;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Tue Mar 23 02:45:11 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:45:11 -0800
Subject: Sending X KeyPress events with Xlib?
Message-ID: <QIOdnQQ-0YeTdsLdRVn-hQ@centurytel.net>

I am a fairly experienced TCL programmer considering a move to Python for my
next project. The project will receive text via TCP from a Windows box
running speech recognition software and send corresponding keystroke
sequences to the window with the current mouse pointer. I've been playing
with the Python-xlib package and it looks promising.

Could anyone provide some guidance on how to generate X KeyPress events to
the current window based on a string?

Thanks, Ed Suominen


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 10 05:08:55 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:08:55 -0800
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
References: <mailman.213.1078910068.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404EE937.9CA46717@alcyone.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> <?XML version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
      ^
	...
> ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1,
> column 5

Line 1 column 5 is the L in <?XML.  That XML document type declaration
is invalid; the "XML" needs to be in lowercase.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ It's like being on a diving board that you know is too high.
    -- Sade Adu


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar 30 09:21:00 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:21:00 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.77.1080592548.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4bvod$fm8$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Adelein and Jeremy wrote:

> I have recently completed a mini-project with the goal of rewriting
> in Python Eric Raymond's fortune.pl script
> (http://www.catb.org/~esr/fortunes/fortune.pl-unconfuse-apache),
> except that instead of generating a sigline for mail, it prints a
> fortune to screen in the traditional manner of the Unix fortune. I
> have succeeded in terms of functionality, but because I am only a
> novice programmer, I would appreciate any comments, criticism,
> suggestions, alternative options, etc. that more experienced
> programmers would be willing to give, whether technical or stylistic
> in nature. Here is my code:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> 
> ## fortune
> ## Jeremy Conn
> ## Version 0.9, 20020329
> ## GNU GPL http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl.html
> ## Description: Generates a random fortune for display onscreen from
> ##              a single file of quotes which the user maintains; the
> ##              quotes can be multi-line, and are separated by lines
> ##              containing only a percent sign (same format as
> ##              traditional fortune files).
> 
> import random
> import re
> import sys
> 
> FORTUNES_FILE = ".fortune"
> 
> # What file should we use?
> if len(sys.argv) > 1:
>     fortunes_file = sys.argv[1]
> else:
>     fortunes_file = FORTUNES_FILE
> 
> # Let's see if we can open that file for reading
> try:
>     fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
> except:

Make it a rule to catch something, e. g.

try:
   ...
except IOError:
   ...

That reduces the chance that an unexpected error is mapped to something
else.


>     sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)
> 
> # Collect the file pointers to each fortune entry in the file
> fp_entry = [0]
> line = fi.readline()
> while line != "":
>     if re.match(r'^%$', line):
>         fp_entry.append(fi.tell())
>     line = fi.readline()
> 
> # Seek to a random entry
> try:
>     fi.seek(random.choice(fp_entry))
> except:
>     sys.exit("Cannot seek.")
> 
> # Add the entry to output message and then print it
> fortune = ''
> line = fi.readline()
> while line != '':
>     if re.match(r'^%$', line):
>         break
>     fortune += line
>     line = fi.readline()
> print fortune
> 
> # Return fp to beginning of file, close the file, and exit program
> fi.seek(0,0)

Code has no effect. I would remove it.

> fi.close()
> sys.exit()

No need to call sys.exit() here.

My impression is that you are messing with file "pointers" too much which I
would consider rather low-level. For C this is OK as it has no decent
support for strings, but in Python I would suggest to relax and process the
whole file as a string or list of lines.

Here's a different approach that reads fortunes one at a time with a
generator function that collects lines until it encounters a "%\n". 
I'm using an algorithm to choose a random fortune that was posted on c.l.py
by Paul Rubin, see
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-December/201114.html

import random, sys

def fortunes(infile):
    """ Yield fortunes as lists of lines """
    result = []
    for line in infile:
        if line == "%\n":
            yield result
            result = []
        else:
            result.append(line)
    if result:
        yield result

def findfortune(filename):
    """ Pick a random fortune from a file """
    for index, fortune in enumerate(fortunes(file(filename))):
        if random.random() < (1.0 / (index+1)):
            chosen = fortune

    return "".join(chosen)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print findfortune(sys.argv[1]),

As to error handling, I admit I'm lazy, but for small scripts I'm usually
happy with the traceback.

Peter


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Mar 17 08:19:42 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:19:42 +0100
Subject: popen problem
References: <40584C01.6030602@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <4058506E.6050105@geochemsource.com>


> pop = os.popen4(cmd,1) 

RTMF.....

It should be os.popen4(cmd,'t',1 since the third parameter is the buffer 
size, not the second.
Sorry.




From no_ludal_spam at logilab.com  Mon Mar 15 12:28:39 2004
From: no_ludal_spam at logilab.com (Ludovic Aubry)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:28:39 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:41:10 +0100, Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> Python is strongly typed because:
> 
> - lots of type checking is done
> - few implicit type conversions are done.
> - No operations which are inappropriate to the object(s) in question
>   are allowed.
While I agree with the above...

I think your arguments in the following are mostly wrong:
> Try this ...
> 
>     #include <iostream>
>     
>     void foo() {}
>     
>     int main() {
>     
>     float fs[128];
>     
>     char c = 'a';
>     // add integer to character
>     c = c + 1;
In C char is an integer type, it just happens that char is used to
represent characters. I'd rather say there is no character type in C (just
like in Python by the way)
This is exactly the same as if you did in
python:
   >>> 1L+2
   3L
The difference is that in C the cast is implicit and done before calling
the __add__ operator (when it is redefined)

>     // Use a character to subscript an array std::cout << fs[c]
<<
>     std::endl;
>     // Out of bounds array access
>     std::cout << fs[200] << std::endl;
>   
>     int* ip;
>     ip = (int*)(void*)(&foo);
>     // Add an integer to a function
>     std::cout << 3+(*ip) << std::endl;
You did nothing of what you said; you just added 3 to a pointer to an int
You even did an explicit cast from your function pointer into a pointer to
int.
Doing what you said with g++ ie:
{
  foo+=3;
}
gives the error:
"error: pointer to a function used in arithmetic"

>     return 0;
>     }
>     }
> So, here we have four examples of weak typing in C++:
After closer examination this leaves the out of bound if you can count
that as weak typing.
But I would definitely add the automatic casting as a weak typing example...

> Try as you will, Python would not allow you to do any of these things,
> because it is _strongly typed_ with respect to these operations on these
> types.
Python will allow you to multiply string with integers for example ;)

-- 
Ludovic Aubry                                 LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 09:41:25 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:41:25 -0000
Subject: monitoring a directory
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347D9@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>Is there a way to find the user who modify the file ?

Not unless you have volume change journalling or file auditing turned on.
And even then, I'm not sure how you find out the answer... In short, Windows
doesn't store against the file who last changed it, and the
ReadDirectoryChangesW structures don't return it either.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 26 16:55:42 2004
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:55:42 +0000
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <MezCgcAebKZAFwzi@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

It's getting near to April 1 so is prothon http://www.prothon.org/ real?
-- 
Robin Becker


From mikew at none.com  Sun Mar 14 10:52:00 2004
From: mikew at none.com (Mike W.)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:52:00 -0500
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
Message-ID: <20040314105158.138$FE@news.newsreader.com>


"montezum" <line_guibert-wolff at hc-sc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA at look.ca...
> where can I find Paris Hilton video?
>

Most likely not in any of these groups....




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Mar 29 06:04:15 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:04:15 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<BcT9c.8088$1A6.392543@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <SoT9c.8091$1A6.393200@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:BcT9c.8088$1A6.392543 at news20.bellglobal.com...
[snip]
> perhaps:
>
> Proto = Proto1.clone().__bases__ = (Proto2, )
> obj = Proto1.clone()
>
> or
[snip]

I saw your post to prothon-user re:

P3 = proto( q, P1, P2)
    It's a new prototype, inheriting from q, P1, and P2.

Nice.




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar 26 18:44:50 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:44:50 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
	<40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4064C072.62D8E489@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> 
> > What part of the semantics are you unclear about?  Two sequences are
> > equal if they are element-wise equal.
> 
> That definition is circular.

No, because presumably you already understand what equality means for
two non-sequence objects.

> > and that definition is even consistent with the behavior you saw
> > with the
> > self-referencing lists which for some reason surprised you.
> 
> Yes, s==w is consistent with the definition, but s!=w would also have
> been consistent with it.

As I already demonstrated in your initial response, Python's behavior in
your examples was completely consistent with this definition, whether
you realize it or not.  The cases that you thought shouldn't have been
equal were in fact equal, and the cases that you thought should have
been equal weren't, in fact, equal.  I and several others carefully
demonstrated this to you, but you ignored us so that you could continue
ranting that Python's list equality is broken, when there is no evidence
that it is.

> Consider for instance the following definition:
> * all strings and numbers are called "well-founded"
> * a list is called well-founded if and only if all its elements are
> well-founded.
> 
> l=[]
> l.append(l)
> Is l well-founded? Both answers "yes" and "no" are consistent with the
> above definition.

No they aren't, since l's first element is a list, not a string or
number.

What is the point of this definition?

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Drifting from woman-who-tries misconstrued / Shifting to
    woman-wise -- Lamya


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Thu Mar  4 09:21:01 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:21:01 +0100
Subject: Windows NT Service and Sockets
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403031210.6d1d7abc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40473B4D.2080706@geochemsource.com>

>
>
>How can I used WaitForMultipleObjects() with sockets?  The code (shown
>below) respresents a very simple echo server using sockets.  I need
>WaitForMultipleObjects() so I can wait for both a new connection and
>the stop command from the service manager.
>
>Your help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks. 
>
>Olaf
>
>
>    def SvcDoRun(self):
>        sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
>        sock.bind(('localhost', 53574))
>        sock.listen(1)
>        
>        connection, addr = sock.accept()
>        data = connection.recv(1024)
>        connection.send(data)
>        connection.close()
>        
>        # We do nothing other than wait to be stopped!
>        win32event.WaitForSingleObject(self.hWaitStop,
>win32event.INFINITE)
>  
>
It is common to use a different thread for your main program and other 
thread(s) to handle service
manager commands. Hint: you can use select.select on the server socket 
object to wait for
an incoming connection for a certain amount of time.

Best,

   Laci





From lucat at despammed.com  Sun Mar 14 14:15:18 2004
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca T.)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:15:18 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
Message-ID: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hello,
i need some answers...

1) I need to run some linux commands (from inside my app) that require 
superuser privileges (mkfs, losetup, etc), how do i do that? (I do not 
want to run my app with root privileges, but it will just ask the user 
for the root password before proceeding)
2) When i execute the command i need to read its output (especially the 
error messages) to know if everything went fine but i do not know how :(
3) How can i know if the user that is running my app is root or normal user?

Thank you,
    Luca


From google at chrislevis.com  Mon Mar 29 22:36:32 2004
From: google at chrislevis.com (Chris)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 19:36:32 -0800
Subject: Filemon-ish behavior by Python?
Message-ID: <5face74a.0403291936.4b1c2442@posting.google.com>

(For those who don't know what filemon is, it is a utility by System
Internals that hooks into something and watches every file-access
performed by the system (in this case, Win 2000), and outputs to the
GUI the files being accessed).

I like filemon, but I'd like it better if I could run it at the
command line, and have the option of piping the output all over the
place.  Does anyone out there know of an existing utility that can do
this, or, barring that, can you point me to a good place to start on
making such a tool using Python?  I'm not sure what I would have to
hook into to watch these operations on the disk.

TIA
-cjl


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 22:55:36 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:55:36 -0500
Subject: Bug in socket module?
References: <XDmac.55987$4j7.3622983@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <qnkbrmdzn47.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Koen  Vossen <koen_vossen at pandora.be> wrote:

> Hi, 
>
> I came across some exceptional behaviour (pun intended) when I was
> programming a small chat server. I've simplified my original code to the
> following minimal version that still exhibits the same problem:
>
> <code>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import socket
>
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
> s.bind(('', 1234))
> s.settimeout(10)
>
> try:
>     print "The Meaning of Life."
>     data, address = s.recvfrom(1024)
> except KeyboardInterrupt:
>     pass
> </code>
>
> When I start this little snippet, it just sits waiting for the socket to
> return some data, as expected. However, when I press CTRL-C before the
> timeout occurs it crashes on a KeyboardInterrupt exception, despite the
> fact that I have set up a handler to catch the latter.
>
> <output>
> koen at s031845:~/workdir> ./weird.py
> The Meaning of Life.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./weird.py", line 11, in ?
>     data, address = s.recvfrom(1024)
> KeyboardInterrupt
> </output>
>
> When I omit the settimeout method call, or when I replace recvfrom by
> raw_input, the program behaves as expected.
>
> I'm using the following version of python:
> Python 2.3+ (#1, Jan  7 2004, 09:17:35)
> [GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
> I've found that on Windows the same behaviour occurs.
>
> Am I onto something here?

I think that's a bug. I looked at this and opened a bug report for you on
SourceForge (http://python.org/sf/926423). It's got my explanation of
what I think is going wrong.

There's a work around. This should work:

try:
    try:
        data, address = s.recvfrom(1024)
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        print 'not triggered'
except KeyboardInterrupt:
    print 'this should trigger'

So, put your error-handling code in the outermost try..except block.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 00:57:13 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:57:13 +1200
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <7xisgxuoti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
	<7xisgxuoti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c3r7vp$2bt5tf$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Well, yes.  It wouldn't have occurred to me to care about the
> compiler's pain ;-).

Careful, you'll have enforcement officers from the Society
for Prevention of Cruelty to Compilers knocking on your door.
(And the SPCC sub-contracts the PSU as their enforcement arm,
so watch out.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mark at prothon.org  Sun Mar 28 14:28:27 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:28:27 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>

I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess I'll
have to change that.

I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in the
language.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:106di86neu1qh4d at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
> news:v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021 at fed1read04...
> > > although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use Prothon.
> >
> > Can you please point me to those reasons?
>
> Since I got into a minor flame war over them, including a
> very snide and oh so superior response from one yahoo
> who almost hit my killfile over it, I'll just mention that there
> are ***very good***, that is ***extremely good***
> reasons why the Python standard is to use spaces for
> indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be
> removed in 3.0.
>
> There are enough interesting languages out there to
> investigate that I simply won't bother with candidates
> that don't play fair with ***all*** the tools I use,
> or that people I communicate with use.
>
> John Roth
>
>
>




From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Tue Mar  2 20:20:25 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:20:25 +0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
In-Reply-To: <Hu61c.84024$Wa.81499@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <000201c400bd$b49ec720$0000fea9@simonxp>

> and the final result is still much slower than Fortran. For the 
> Fortran program, the only "trick" is the use of integer*8.

This is hardly surprising. *Hundreds* of man years have been spent
optimising Fortran compilers for speed.




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Mar 23 20:34:28 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:34:28 GMT
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<4qet50hla2dna5g8gqcbbfj2tsmu3smkp7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94B61A304D888JanC@213.119.4.35>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> schreef:

> To me, the 'as' syntax is misleading. It implies that the syntax is
> asserting a type, style or similar attribute of the function. That may
> be the expected normal use, with 'staticmethod' etc, but my
> understanding is that it is meant to be more general than that. You
> can apply any translation or any sequence of translations that you
> choose.

Maybe "def foo() with [list]" (or "def foo() using [list]"?) is more clear 
then?

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 05:48:51 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:48:51 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>

On 21 Mar 2004 23:03:24 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
>to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
>compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order
>to decide if it's a generator.

Good point. Though to me, it isn't that it's a pain for the compiler
to search for the 'yield' - I don't care about the compilers pain. The
problem is that *I* have to look for the yield and might not notice
it.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From bla at libero.it  Wed Mar 17 23:24:26 2004
From: bla at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:24:26 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:24:14 +1050, Ben Finney wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:45:56 +0100, Nicola Mingotti wrote:
>> I obtained this result : 
>> ------
>>>>> '1' > 1 
>> True
>> ------

> This should not be surprising; the values are different, so one will be
> "greater than" the other; but comparing them is not of much use.

Here i expect "Undefined Operation" or, if this is defined,
this means that '1' and 1 are comparable so, either 1 is 
seen as string or '1' is seen as a number . But ....

-----------------
>>>>> '1' + 1
>> TypeError 
>> -------

With this result i see that none of the two before mentioned possibility 
is possible because, in the first case i would expect ,as result, '11' and
, in the second, i would expect a number . I obtain TypeError so , i think
this is illogical .


> This, too, should not be surprising.  Adding a character and a number
> has no unambiguously correct meaning.
Also comparing a string and a character hasn't unambiguos meaning ,
has it ? 


>> -----------------------------
>>>>>'1'.__gt__.__doc__
>> 'x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y'
>> ----------------------------- 
> Showing that the comparison is pretty much what you'd expect.  Again,
> though, the result of comparing different types like character and
> integer isn't particularly useful.
>

Here i would expect the definition of '>' between strings . 
And the definition of '>' between 'chars' and 'integers' given
that a strange result has been returned .
I know python is growing and free so i don't expect that everything 
is documented or everything is correct and that is the reason i asked here.


> What behaviour did you expect?  Without knowing that it's hard to
> explain why the reality is different.

i imagined two possibility :

1) Like CommmonLisp (clisp implementation) -----> A Strinct Type Error 
[1]> (> "1" 1)
*** - >: "1" is not a REAL


2) Like C -----> Char is converted to int
#include<stdio.h>
int main(){
  printf("%i %i", '1' >  1 , '1' + 1 );
  return 0;
}
==> 1 50


Bye .

Excuse me again for mistakes or possible (but unwanted)
rude language . 




From rzantow at ntelos.net  Fri Mar 26 09:03:53 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:03:53 GMT
Subject: mxDateTime function DateFromString gives wrong year
References: <c3s4r2$2bl6t3$1@uni-berlin.de>
	<tan760la6aejk7ahtus5csfg2rc2pkjif7@4ax.com>
	<c412g7$2d20ui$1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns94B85C8895292rzed@63.223.5.95>

Sibylle Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> wrote
in news:c412g7$2d20ui$1 at uni-berlin.de: 

> Tim Roberts schrieb:
>> Sibylle Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de>
>> wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>>>This is very nearly a repetition of a post by Peter Hansen from
>>>2002-07-07 which never got an answer:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>x = mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('Nov 2003')
>>>>>>x
>>>
>>><DateTime object for '2004-11-20 00:00:00.00' at a61ba0>
>>>
>>>Using mx.DateTime Version 2.0.5 for Python 2.3 and ActivePython
>>>2.3.2. 
>>>
>>>The original posting had the same problem with 'October
>>>29/2000'. This isn't corrected either, it still converts to
>>>2004-10-29. 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm not convinced that's a bug.  The slash is not a valid
>> separator for DateFromString once it finds a named month, so
>> the parse terminates there. It sees "October 29" and assumes
>> the current year.  Replace the slash with a comma and it will
>> work fine. 
> 
> This case is a citation from the original post from 2002. My
> actual problem is with "Nov 2003" which is converted to a date
> in November 2004. And I think what P. Hansen cited from the
> mx.DateTime documentation in his original posting is equally
> valid here: 
> 
> "The module knows about quite a few different date and time
> formats and will try very hard to come up with a reasonable
> output given a valid input." 
> 
> For the example "October 29/2000" replacing the slash with ', '
> does work. For my "Nov 2003" inserting a comma doesn't help.
> 

But the answer is likely to be similar, isn't it? After parsing Nov 
20 (expecting a particular day), the next character is not a valid 
separator, so the parsing stops and the current year is inserted. 
What date are you expecting, given only a month and year? Or are you 
expecting November 20, 2003? Asking the parser to distinguish which 
of two interpretations of "2003" you mean seems a little demanding.

-- 
rzed



From noah at noah.org  Fri Mar 19 20:40:23 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 17:40:23 -0800
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403191740.3429d418@posting.google.com>

Patrick Useldinger <p at trick.lu> wrote in message news:<vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f at 4ax.com>...
> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.
> Regards,
> -pu

I've been running Python on OpenBSD for years.
It builds and runs great. I do most of my work on OpenBSD.
Threads work fine, but it's been a while since I've tested them.
I have not tried CPython or Twisted.

Also, check out NetBSD as an alternative, but OpenBSD is still my favorite.

Yours,
Noah


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 17 10:13:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:13:06 -0600
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
In-Reply-To: <405868D7.4090205@python.org>
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
	<405868D7.4090205@python.org>
Message-ID: <20040317151306.GI2446@unpythonic.net>

> Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
> > doesn't allow for generic options to be arguments to
> > subcommand-specific options,
> 
On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 10:03:51AM -0500, David Goodger wrote:
> What does that mean?

Using the example of CVS again, the "-z#" argument specifies that
compression should be used for network connections.  I think that these
have the same effect:
    cvs -z3 co foo
    cvs co -z3 foo
"-z#" can appear before or after subcommand in the commandline and has
the same meaning in either location.

Jeff



From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 17 11:03:44 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:03:44 GMT
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
References: <4057C28E.92965723@alcyone.com>
	<20040317050108.71682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.78.1079528403.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ish35ulb.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     Anthony> But I am using gbcxterm, which displays Chinese very well,
>     Anthony> plus, I think I can also input Chinese using this terminal.
>     Anthony> Then why do I still have this problem?
> 
> Look in your installed site.py file for the encoding variable and change it
> as you like.  The default is "ascii".  Sounds like your sys admin may have
> changed it to "latin-1".

Nah, more likely is that he is using 2.3 which uses
locale.nl_langinfo(CODESET) to find out which encoding to use on
output.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  (ps: don't feed the lawyers: they just lose their fear of humans)
                                         -- Peter Wood, comp.lang.lisp


From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 22 16:07:47 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:07:47 +0000
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
References: <mailman.223.1079927977.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405E9A79.59E94615@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1079989666.12966.0@nnrp-t71-01.news.uk.clara.net>

In message <405E9A79.59E94615 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Brian Quinlan wrote:
> 
>> Do you really think that is easier than:
>> 
>> usersmod = __import__(modname)
> 
> I figured he was doing a little leg-pulling.

I figured he didn't own Lutz & Ascher's "Learning Python" in which both
methods appear.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 30 06:36:12 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:36:12 +0900
Subject: warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined
Message-ID: <c4bm6e$1uqj$2@news.riken.go.jp>

Including Python.h I got the following warining

warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined

in Python.h:

#define _POSIX_C_SOURCE 200112L

in features.h (included from string):

# define _POSIX_C_SOURCE	199506L

Is there a (potential) problem with this?

Thanks,
marc



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Mar 10 20:22:30 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 17:22:30 -0800
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
References: <mailman.231.1078936939.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403101722.71506b59@posting.google.com>

Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The problem remains even if I try encoding="UTF-16" or
> encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
> document.

Indeed, expat doesn't understand some of the more complex (DBCS)
encodings such as GB.

In any case, you'll need CJKCodecs to get GB support, if you haven't
installed them already. (They'll be built-in in a forthcoming Python
version.) See http://cjkpython.i18n.org/

Then you'll need to either:

  - read in the file and transcode it before passing to expat
    via minidom.parseString, or,

  - use a pure-Python parser such as xmlproc (a validating parser)
    or the one in pxdom.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From lamote1 at netscape.net  Mon Mar  8 13:24:26 2004
From: lamote1 at netscape.net (chads)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:24:26 -0600
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.123.1078762642.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.123.1078762642.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104peirnpla760c@corp.supernews.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> lamote1 at netscape.net (chads) writes:
> 
> 
>>How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
>>simple example?
>>
>>union {
>>   struct {
>>      int size;
>>      float time;
>>   } var1;
>>   struct {
>>      char initial;
>>      float time;
>>   } var2;
>>};
> 
> 
> With ctypes ;-)
> 
> from ctypes import *
> 
> class MyUnion(Union):
> 
>     class struct_1(Structure):
>         _fields_ = [("size", c_int),
>                     ("time", c_float)]
> 
>     class struct_2(Structure):
>         _fields_ = [("initial", c_char),
>                     ("time", c_float)]
> 
>     _fields_ = [("var1", struct_1),
>                 ("var2", struct_2)]
> 
> print sizeof(MyUnion)
> 
> On Windows, this prints 8.
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 

Thank you.



From michael at foord.net  Fri Mar 26 03:46:26 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 00:46:26 -0800
Subject: Path Module and Py2exe
References: <8089854e.0403240026.62c51fab@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.326.1080117880.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403260046.67e02027@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.326.1080117880.742.python-list at python.org>...
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) writes:
> 
> > Has anyone succesfully used py2exe with the (excellent) path module by
> > Jason Orendorff ?
> >
> > I use it regularly but tried to 'bundle' one of my applications that
> > used it with py2exe last night. It failed with a 'maximum recursion
> > depth' error in module finder - the full error report is below. It's
> > obviously got some kind of 'cylical' error in the module importing
> > code - which it isn't catching. I finally managed to isolate path as
> > the source of the problem.
> >
> > A simple script that imports path and just prints path.getcwd() fails
> > with the same error when I try to 'compile' it (I know, I know..)
> > using py2exe.
> >
> > Unfortunately - if unresolvable - this will stop me using the module.
> >
> > I wondered if anyone had seen this before, or had any suggestions as
> > to how to overcome this ?
> 
> That's a yet unresolved bug in modulefinder:
> 
> http://www.python.org/sf/876278
> 
> Possible workarounds are listed here:
> 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/PathModul
> 
> Thomas



Thanks for your help.
Looks like renaming the file is sufficient.... bizzarre....


Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From ir4u4 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 01:08:54 2004
From: ir4u4 at yahoo.com (Equis Uno)
Date: 29 Feb 2004 22:08:54 -0800
Subject: Best way to create a Dictionary from file of Key-Value pairs?
References: <692feddd.0402291222.6f2d619e@posting.google.com>
	<2004022915364277923%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <692feddd.0402292208.2a0e93e1@posting.google.com>

I must say, CLP rocks.

I added some syntax to convert the key from string to a time data
type:

import time
# Convert the values to float and the keys to time
myfile = file('csvData.txt')
myfile.readline() # skip "date,value" line
datevaluemap = dict([( time.strptime(key, '%d-%b-%y'), float(value))
for (key, value) in csv.reader(myfile)])
print datevaluemap

output:

{(2004, 2, 24, 0, 0, 0, 1, 55, -1): 36.299999999999997, (2004, 2, 19,
0, 0, 0, 3, 50, -1): 37.869999999999997, (2004, 2, 26, 0, 0, 0, 3, 57,
-1): 36.469999999999999, (2004, 2, 20, 0, 0, 0, 4, 51, -1): 37.0,
(2004, 2, 23, 0, 0, 0, 0, 54, -1): 37.0, (2004, 2, 25, 0, 0, 0, 2, 56,
-1): 36.43}

I'm way happy!

-moi


From no at sp.am  Fri Mar 12 16:49:42 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:49:42 -0600
Subject: How to use Sockets with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>
References: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <GZKdnUhcSY7prc_dRVn-jQ@comcast.com>

jblazi wrote:

> I am having this problem:
> I use Python for my teaching and right now we are trying to implement some
> sort of very simple graphical game the pupils can play across the
> Internet. For this, we use wxPython.
> 
> Now it has turned out that wxPython does not implement wxWidget sockets,
> so we have to use Python sockets instead. Implementing a separate thread
> for this would be too complicated and I am going to use the wxIdle event
> to do the socket processing, as the amount of data sent from one player to
> the other is very small.

You might want to use Twisted instead.  You need the very latest version 
(1.2 or later) for it to work with wxPython:
http://www.twistedmatrix.com/products/twisted

You would use Twisted's wxreactor class.  Look at the wxdemo.py file 
under site-packages/TwistedDocs/examples/


See also this tutorial (part 2 on game networking) on using Twisted with 
pygame:  http://sjbrown.ezide.com/games/writing-games.html


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 25 18:44:20 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:44:20 -0500
Subject: Inheriting Classes Across Files
References: <E6K8c.748$Dv2.185@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1066rp8nj7al3e1@news.supernews.com>


"Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
news:E6K8c.748$Dv2.185 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> In my program I need derived classes to inherit from the super class.
>
> I can do this but I'd like to split the super class into it's own file.
>
> How do you do this? When I split the code I start getting errors.

The module with the superclass has to be imported before
the subclass is defined.

Be very careful you don't get into an import loop.
That way lies madness.

John Roth
>




From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 20:11:57 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:11:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Okay Heres the problem: in Index
Message-ID: <20040310011157.8022.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Buddies,

Okay heres my post again and I have mentioned it very
clearly:

I have these two pieces of code. dictionary.py and
vector.py

1. dictionary.py: I take a spam message, strip off
html and split words. The words are then stored in a
file, "dictionary_index".

The words stored in the dictionary have the format
"14 : sexy"

that is

number : word

2. I have this another code "vector.py". When a new
email message arrives, I strip off html again and
compare the words in the payload with the words in the
dictionary (from the file "dictionary_index")
When I run vector.py against a new message,

$python vector.py email_message

I have an output like this:

0 code 0.00224466891134
1 help 0.00224466891134
2 mby 0.00224466891134
3 zzzz 0.00448933782267
4 both 0.00224466891134
5 mbqpw 0.00112233445567
6 syntax 0.00224466891134
7 ratree 0.00224466891134
8 edt 0.003367003367

The numerical values are the number of occurances of
the word divided by the total number of the words in
the email message.

Now, my problems are:

1. The numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, that are in the output of
the vector.py are the corresponding position of the
words in the email_message, that I ran against the
dictionary_index. I want the index of the
corresponding word in the dictionary. For example: If
"syntax" was occuring in the dictionary at 500. I want
the 500 syntax <value> instead of 6 syntax <value>
that I am getting right now.

2. I want to write this output to the file in the
format:

1 index value index value index value index value
index value

Note that:
a)I am writing 1 myself to indicate its a spam in the
feature vector.
I may have to write 0 also at some places.
b)I dont write the word in this vector. Only <index
value>, where index is the corresponding position of
the word in the dictionary which occurs in the
message.

Unfortunately, I dont know how to fix my problems 1
and 2 and would really appreciate if some one can hint
me at that.
I am attaching the pieces of code here:

Thanks
Dont





----------------------------------------------------
# python code for creating dictionary of words from a
message : dictionary.py

input file
import string, StringIO
import mailbox, email, re
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt


fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

dictpos={}
wordcount={}
#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()


for i, w in enumerate(file('dictionary_index')):
	dictpos[w.strip()]=i
	#print i
	#print w

for w in msg:
	try:
		wordcount[w]+=1
		#print wordcount
	except KeyError:
		wordcount[w]=1
		#print wordcount

for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
	try:
		print dictpos[w],':',c
	except KeyError:
		pass



#print wordcount
#print dictpos
#print '\n'


#-------------------------------------------------
#vector.py



import string, StringIO
import mailbox, email, re
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt



#load up external dictionary:
words = open('dictionary_index', 'r').read().split()
dct = {}
for i in xrange(len(words)):
     dct[words[i]] = i

print dct.values()

#make vector:
vector = {}

fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

#a = float(len(fp))

#a = float(len(words_in_body))


#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()

a = float(len(msg))
print a

for i in msg:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1

         except:
             vector[i] = 1

for v,i in enumerate(vector):
    vector[i] /= a
    print v,i, vector[i]
    #; if u want to see the word too that was commmon
    #print v, ":",vector[i]


    #rint "\n"

#1.write(s)
#1.close()





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From xtian at toysinabag.com  Sat Mar 13 05:37:05 2004
From: xtian at toysinabag.com (xtian)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 02:37:05 -0800
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668@pd7tw1no>
	<T4v4c.11264$H44.200022@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <d111eafa.0403130237.7320370e@posting.google.com>

"elizabeth fletcher" <fletcher at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<T4v4c.11264$H44.200022 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> Actually, I have the .pyd file (which I understand is basically a dll file)
> and placed it in the DLL directory in the PYTHON23 directory.  In the
> interactive window I type "import calldll" and I get an error (ImportError:
> DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found)    I shoudn't if
> the dll is installed correctly.....right?

A .pyd extension module can be imported as long as it's on the module
search path - check that by entering:

>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path

It seems that, by default, the python23\DLLs directory should be
included in sys.path. The error says DLL load failed, which implies
that the pyd *was* found (otherwise, how would Python know it was a
DLL?), and that it's not the search that's the problem.

Are you sure that the version of the calldll.pyd library you have is
the correct one for Python 2.3? Binary modules are version-specific. I
can't see a 2.3 version available - did you compile it yourself?

Do you need to use calldll specifically? I think ctypes
(http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/) provides very
similar functionality, and it's definitely available for 2.3. It comes
with an executable installer, which should make things a bit easier.
:)

HTH,
xtian


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 14:55:36 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:55:36 +0100
Subject: python classes
References: <f2335$40475626$42a655ea$12158@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
	<c27mrt$kge$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<9f1bd$40476c26$42a655ea$13320@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
	<c27t0v$fhn$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d8996$404786dc$42a655ea$14999@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
Message-ID: <c281jo$vpc$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Haven't used it myself, but before you start duplicating a whole database
scheme in Python, a look at http://sqlobject.org/ might be worthwile.

Peter


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 03:10:29 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 00:10:29 -0800
Subject: feval similar to Matlab
References: <eiN8c.344132$Po1.301096@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403260010.777f514b@posting.google.com>

"Nobody" <user_77 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<eiN8c.344132$Po1.301096 at twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
> I have to (re)write a matlab program in a language of my choice (it's for a
> numerical analysis class) and it uses feval.  I was wondering if there's any
> python module that works similarly (to feval).  It would save me a lot of
> hassle. :)

>>> def feval(funcName, *args):
...    return eval(funcName)(*args)
...
>>> from math import *
>>> feval('log', 256, 2)
8.0


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar  5 11:34:45 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:34:45 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
References: <Law11-F77MdOkTRhlQn0002b71f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c2aa75$te0$1@sea.gmane.org>


"jon c" <jon_couchman at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Law11-F77MdOkTRhlQn0002b71f at hotmail.com...
> well the cammand is
>
> java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries
> application-name
>
> the total string is 6809 characters long.
>
> I do not know the allowed character length (I am using windows 2000)
>
> but perl just runs the command fine, whereas python results in
>
> The following character string is too long:

Is that coming from Windows or Python?  If the latter, give us the full
exception message, which will say from where in Python.  Also, try putting
the long string in a .bat file and running the .bat file by itself and then
from Python.

Terry J. Reedy






From M.Waack at gmx.de  Fri Mar  5 16:28:55 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:55 +0100
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>

Bart Nessux wrote:

> Is there a shred module in Python? You know, the kind that
> overwrites files that one doesn't want others to see? I can call
> the unix program like this:
> 
> x = os.popen("/usr/bin/shred -uvz NAME_OF_FILE")
> x.read()
> x.close()
> 
> But, I'd like a platform independant (portable) way of doing this
> if possible.

First: It is not possible. Let me cite some sentences from shred(1):

       CAUTION: Note  that  shred  relies  on  a  very  important
       assumption:  that the filesystem overwrites data in place.
       This is the traditional way to do things, but many  modern
       filesystem  designs  do  not satisfy this assumption.

But you can make recovery a bit harder by simply overwriting the file
(in fact thats just what shred does): 

(just to describe the idea, I'm sure it will not work;)

f = file("file_to_shred","a+")
size = os.stat("file_to_shred").st_size
f.seek(0)
for i in xrange(size):
  f.write("x")
for i in xrange(size):
  f.write(0)
f.close()
os.unlink("file_to_shred")

To achieve real security you need much knowledge about the
underlaying hardware and filesystem. 

Mathias


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Thu Mar 11 11:36:41 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 08:36:41 -0800
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
References: <mailman.255.1078968636.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403110836.78545a1c@posting.google.com>

Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> by "transcode", do you mean something like:

> theTranscodedString = unicode(theOriginalString)
> xmldoc = minidom.parseString(theTranscodedString)

I don't think minidom.parseString is happy accepting a Unicode string, so
you'd have to transcode over to something else, presumably UTF-8 or UTF-16:

  utf8String= unicode(originalString, 'gb2312').encode('utf-8')
  document= minidom.parseString(utf8String)

problem is you'd have to remove the <?xml?> declaration so it didn't still
try to use the GB encoding declared there.

> So I'll try using xmlproc or pxdom, which I am assuming understand the
> GB encoding according to what you say, right?

Both of these just use the encodings available to Python, so, yes, once
CJKC is installed parsing shouldn't be a problem. The difference is that
expat (which minidom uses) is a separate library written in C, which makes
it much faster, but means it has no access to Python's codec base.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From bblackmoor at spamcop.net  Mon Mar  8 09:40:26 2004
From: bblackmoor at spamcop.net (Brandon Blackmoor)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:40:26 -0500
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
In-Reply-To: <np6n40ha3m7s42ud2chrqc38f0gqs30jr5@4ax.com>
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
	<du7wu60ra10.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403042353.1b15f8ce@posting.google.com>
	<c2g3gb$1sb5fo$1@ID-97660.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<np6n40ha3m7s42ud2chrqc38f0gqs30jr5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2i0kq$1svaag$1@ID-97660.news.uni-berlin.de>

Geoff Berrow wrote:
>
>>   HTH. HAND.
> 
> Hope This Helps. Have A Nice Day

Wow. That's really lazy.

bblackmoor
2004-03-08


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Fri Mar 19 16:23:27 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:23:27 -0000
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
	<9396ba6f.0403191309.7d3b7439@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <017801c40df8$702f8730$0600a8c0@Hugh>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stewart Midwinter" <stewart at midwinter.ca>
Subject: Re: Getting both PID and output from a command


> hugh at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald) wrote in message
news:<3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578 at posting.google.com>...
> > I'm calling a command from within a python script and I need to be
> > able to both catch the output (stdout and stderr) from it and also
> > have the PID (so that I can kill it)
>
> Take a look in PyPi for popen5.  It may do what you want, but only in
> Linux: the Windows version isn't complete yet.

I'll take a look - thanks....


Hugh Macdonald




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 14:10:45 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 20:10:45 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
Message-ID: <tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>

Ludovic Aubry <no_ludal_spam at logilab.com> writes:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:41:10 +0100, Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> > Python is strongly typed because:
> > 
> > - lots of type checking is done
> > - few implicit type conversions are done.
> > - No operations which are inappropriate to the object(s) in question
> >   are allowed.
> While I agree with the above...
> 
> I think your arguments in the following are mostly wrong:

I did say (somewhere) that strong and weak typing is a pretty
wish-washy concept ... and I'm not going to engage in discussions of
just how weakly typed C is and why. I agree, there are plenty of ways
in which you could pick holes in my examples. I'm sorry, I don't find
pursuing this train of thought very interesting.

> > Try as you will, Python would not allow you to do any of these things,
> > because it is _strongly typed_ with respect to these operations on these
> > types.
> Python will allow you to multiply string with integers for example ;)

Yes, and in that respect it is weakly typed. 

ML, for example wouldn't even allow you to add a float to an integer,
without explicit instructions stating what it is that you mean, which
Python would do for you without hesitation, so in that respect Python
is more weakly typed than ML.

PERL would allow you to add "3" to 3, Python would not. In that
respect Python is more strongly typed than PERL.

(I neither know nor care whether the answer PERL gives you is 6 or 33 :-)


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Mar 31 21:29:32 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:29:32 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04> <c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>

Does anyone get anything done around here with all the bitching?  I've been
communicating via email for 30 years and never have I seen such complaining
about something so silly.  If you have anything to contribute to Prothon
I'll be over in the Prothon lists.  We are too busy creating to have
conversations like this over there.

You may not be able to tell it, but I'm a nice guy who would really like
feedback from intelligent knowledgable people like yourself.  I just can't
take this anymore.

Aahz wrote:
> In article <eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895 at fed1read04>,
> Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
>>
>> Self defines having the same attribute in two different prototypes
>> illegal.  That seemed extremely constraining to me so I went with the
>> Python 2.2 mro solution in Prothon.
>
> Bad idea.  But I won't tell you why until you stop top-posting and
> over-quoting.




From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Wed Mar 10 22:13:45 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:13:45 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <hciv40hf01o3bkbm7ftk2833ofhko8653l@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<104vg6f87k7gb19@corp.supernews.com>
	<hciv40hf01o3bkbm7ftk2833ofhko8653l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:28:47 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
> wrote:
> 
> 
<snip>


> 
> I guess this reflects our different backgrounds.  I've been an
> electronic design engineer for many years.  I never heard of lambda's
> or lambda calculus until learning Python, and the name still doesn't
> evoke much meaning for me.  I've never used APL, J, or Perl.  I wonder
> how many technical professionals who are *not* programmers would know
> what a lambda is?  I wonder if Python is becoming more a language for
> programmers, and less for "everyone".
> 

I was trained as an EE myself and started programming in assembler on 
microprocessors, then in C , then in C++, reading, reading, reading,....

Just the mere fact that you are talking about lambda shows that you know 
what it is, as I do now and as people learning Python will know when 
they use it.  They'll learn, that why they are technical professionals, no?

I have no problem with the way Python uses lambda and I like the fact 
that it does not have cryptic keywords.  I don't need to think about the 
way things have to be written when I write Python programs, I think 
about system design.  I would think that a technical person that is not 
a programmer would like that too.

Regards,

Pierre Rouleau



From ken at perfect-image.com  Fri Mar 26 10:12:51 2004
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:12:51 -0700
Subject: Gtk / pyGtk: How to remove the close button at the top right
 corner	of the dialog window?
In-Reply-To: <eb02dbae.0403260634.279ba837@posting.google.com>
References: <eb02dbae.0403260634.279ba837@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40644873.6080203@perfect-image.com>

ahk wrote:
> As subject. TIA.

As far as I know this is controlled by the window
manager.

ie. in "icewm" you can change your preference file
to include / exclude any of the buttons in the title
bar that you want to.

I'm guessing you want to do this because of the
state that's left in your program if someone
closes it using the "X" instead of a close button?

I don't know about pyGtk but in PyQt you have
a "Close Event" signal that allows you to process
what ever you want when a user closes a window, how ever
the window is closed. PyQt also has a signal that's
emmitted from the main app window called "aboutToQuit"
which will close all open windows, thus processing your
close events for each window.

This would be the type of thing to look for in pyGtk.



From lance.ellinghaus at eds.com  Thu Mar 11 15:10:59 2004
From: lance.ellinghaus at eds.com (Ellinghaus, Lance)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:10:59 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
Message-ID: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C18D09FF9@USHEM204.amer.corp.eds.com>

> > Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()

>Reload doesn't work the way most people think
>it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
>they stay around. They aren't replaced.

>It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
>doesn't do what the idea promises.

I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()? 

Would this be done by "del sys.modules['modulename']" and then perform an
'import'?

I use reload() for many purposes, knowing how it works/does not work.

Lance Ellinghaus



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 03:22:50 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:22:50 -0800
Subject: Sentence splitter module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.151.1079682785.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.151.1079682785.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3eaqg$ool$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Is anyone aware of a freely available sentence splitter module for Python?
> It does not have to be anything fancy, but it should be able to split
> written text in most European languages on regular punctuation mark
> combinations followed by whitespace and possible supply a list of
> abbreviations that override the plain punctuation rules.
> 
> All advice appreciated.

Check out this thread:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=c2d741%24m3t%241%40news.service.uci.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26safe%3Doff%26q%3Dsentence%2Bjosiah%2Bgroup%253Acomp.lang.python.*%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

  - Josiah


From peter at semantico.com  Thu Mar 11 12:03:26 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:03:26 +0000
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40509bdf$0$28718$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Premshree Pillai wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I recently wrote a Perl version of pyAlbum.py [1] -- a
> Python script to create an image album from a given
> directory -- plAlbum.pl [2].
> 
> It made me realize how easy-to-use Python is.
> 
> [1]
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246
> [2]
> http://www.premshree.resource-locator.com/cgi-bin/source.pl?file=../perl/plAlbum.pl
> 
> -Premshree Pillai
> 
> =====
> -Premshree
> [http://www.qiksearch.com/]
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
> Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html
> 

As a perl programmer I have to take issue with your code.

Why did you write len() when you could have used scalar which returns 
the length of a list? Badly written Perl is hardly a fair comparison for 
well written Python.

You might find Python easier than Perl but you are not a particulary 
good Perl programmer.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 21:41:05 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:41:05 -0600
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <20040310015609.GC782@spawar.navy.mil>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<20040310015609.GC782@spawar.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <20040310024105.GA20145@unpythonic.net>

[Copied back to python-list in case anybody there is interested in this]

Jeff Epler wrote [part of the body for coroutine()]:
> >         os.dup2(F(child_stdin), 0)
> >         os.dup2(F(child_stdout), 1)
> >         os.dup2(F(child_stderr), 2)
> 
On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:56:09PM -0800, seberino at spawar.navy.mil wrote:
> What do these dup2 commands do??? What exactly is child process
> doing in this part?  I assume this is were we do the trick of
> making different processes use same i/o objects?

Basically, this makes fd 0 correspond to child_stdin, etc.  Unix programs
assume that fd 0 is stdin, fd 1 is stdout, and fd 2 is stderr.  The
manpage for dup2() explains the exact behavior better than I could.

> >         for j in range(3, 255):
> >             try: os.close(j)
> >             except: pass
> 
> What is purpose of this part?

This closes any files open in the parent process which should not be
available in the child.  Instead of the hardcoded value 255, it should
probably be os.sysconf("SC_OPEN_MAX"). (see the manpage for sysconf)

If you are writing the child programs, and would rather have
stdin/stdout/stderr behave normally in them, then you could use any fd
you want, changing coroutine() to leave that fd open instead of closing
it.  You could have a convention that the pipe is on fd3, for instance,
and use
    os.dup2(child_extra, 3)
    for j in range(4, os.sysconf("SC_OPEN_MAX"):
        try: os.close(j)
        except: pass
.. if you don't have control over the child, then this approach will
probbaly not work for you.  (incidentally, gimp uses a scheme like this
for "plugins", but I think it gives the fd number on the commandline.
gimp "plugins" run as separate processes from gimp itself, not as
dynamically-loaded shared libs or the like)

coroutine() is both more and less useful than popen:  it lets you do more
things with file descriptors, but it doesn't automatically invoke the
shell or do anything special to clean up when the child processes exit.
I also don't know if you can write coroutine() on Windows, where
fork+exec is done in one step by os.spawnv.

Jeff



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 12:21:44 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:21:44 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403121835020.27307-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>
References: <16465.50974.577405.950902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403121835020.27307-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>
Message-ID: <16465.61864.271710.91170@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Denis> module.var = 0 # 0, 1 etc. are always shared. We cannot test
    Denis> someobj = 0 # where it came from

Yikes...  You're right.  Sorry for the bumbled suggestion.

Skip



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar  8 20:04:17 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:04:17 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <104q64b2uf3nl0b@news.supernews.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:c2ikqo$f3h$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> I'm a bit late with this, but better late than never...

[snip the actual PEP]

I'm cool with the parenthesis and the (eventual) move to
absolute import semantics.

However, I think there is a significant problem with the
relative import: it seems like there's a problem distinguishing
downward and upward references.

I think this is a serious conceptual issue, and I'd
prefer to not support upwards references at all.
That doesn't mean they should be prohibited, but
if someone wants to dig a pit for himself with circular
coupling across module hierarchies, then he should
be required to wield the shovel himself. It is not, after
all, that difficult to sort through sys.modules to figure
out where you are in the import hierarchy.

That leaves references to the current package.
I'm going to suggest an "*" as an indicator for
"this package." The reason for an asterisk is my
background in mainframe assembler: it means "here"
in that language, so I'm obviously not particularly
attached to it. It's also already in use in the "from
foo import *" syntax.

A reference beginning in the current directory is
thus:

import *.spam.eggs

Well, that's my opinion.

John Roth







From wcarus at comcast.net  Thu Mar 25 10:48:52 2004
From: wcarus at comcast.net (Win Carus)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 07:48:52 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
References: <mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403220021.db39215@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fc91898a.0403250748.5ceb5a41@posting.google.com>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in message news:<8089854e.0403220021.db39215 at posting.google.com>...
> "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > Fuzzyman wrote:
> > > Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message 
> > > news:<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > > > Regular expressions are not a good tool for this purpose.
> > > 
> > > Hmm... I'm not sure if I've been helped or not :-)
> > > Thanks anyway.....
> > > 
> > > Odd that you can't do this easily with regular expressions - I suppose
> > > it doesn't compile down to a neat test.... but then it's hardly a
> > > complex search... OTOH I have *no idea* how regular expressions
> > > actually work (and no need to find out)...
>  
> > >From one Fu.*man to another ;) you do have a need to find out, even if
> > you don't recognize it. Start with A.M. Kuchling's excellent,
> > Python-based tutorial at: http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/
> > 
> > At the least, you should understand why a regex is not an all-in-one
> > solution to your issue. It basically comes down to the fact that a regex
> > is geared to do its analysis in a single pass over your text. As it
> > finds partial matches, it may backtrack to try to find a complete match,
> > but in general, it moves forward. Therefore, if you want to find three
> > words in a *declared* order in your text, a single regex can do it
> > easily. If you want to find three words in *any* order, the simplest
> > solution using regexes is to perform three separate searches. There are
> > ways to get around this within a regex, but they're neither as simple
> > nor as maintainable as letting Python do the iteration:
> > 
> > >>> import re
> > >>> text = 'Some aa text cc with bb search terms.'
> > >>> search terms = ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
> > >>> [re.findall(re.escape(word), text) for word in search terms]
> > [['aa'], ['bb'], ['cc']]
> > 
> > or, for your case:
> > 
> > >>> def has all terms(content, terms):
> > ... 	for word in terms:
> > ... 		if not re.search(re.escape(word), content):
> > ... 			return False
> > ... 	return True
> > ... 
> > >>> has all terms(text, search terms)
>  True
> > >>> has all terms('A is for aardvark.', search terms)
> > False
> > 
> 
> Thanks for your reply, it was both helpful and interesting.
> Unfortunately it only confirmed my suspicion that what I wanted to do
> wasn't possible :-(
> 
> The database 'module' I'm using (which is basically fine for my other
> purposes) does searches through it's records using regular
> expressions. A full search through 1800 records (each record can be a
> couple of k of text) takes about 0.2 seconds - which is fine.... but
> doing 4 or 5 searches and comparing results *isn't* (0.2 seconds delay
> is ok - 0.8-1.0 seconds isn't).... So I'm currently just searching for
> the longest word - KirbBase then returns the full *text* of each song
> containing that word... and I'm just checking each song to see if it
> has the other words :-)
> 
> This works fine, isn't noticeably slow, but isn't as elegant as I'd
> hoped...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> 
> > 
> > HTCYTIRABM!
> > 
> > Robert Brewer
> > MIS
> > Amor Ministries
> > fumanchu at amor.org

Hi Fuzzyman.

The heuristic solution you've come up with (i.e, searching using the
longest term and then filtering/ranking the results against the
remaining terms) is in fact quite well founded in practice.  Many
years ago, Miller and Newman determined that there are two
length-frequency statistical patterns in written English, one for
content words and another for function words. The content-word pattern
is regular and demonstrates a very strong inverse relationship between
word length and word frequency (i.e., the longer the word, the less
frequent). There are, of course, many exceptions, but the pattern is
very strong; and there are interesting information theoretic arguments
why this makes sense (if you accept that human languages operate to
minimize the costs of communication). In the absence of statistics
collected on your specific body of text, this is a very useful crutch.

Miller, George A. and Edwin B. Newman. 1958. "Tests of a Statistical
Explanation of the Rank-Frequency Relation for Word in Written
English." American Journal of Psychology (71): 209-258.

Miller, George A., E. B. Newman, and E. A. Friedman. 1958.
"Length-Frequency Statistics for Written English." Information and
Control (1): 370-389.

On the other hand, it is also possible to (a) identify the full set of
candidate search terms available (this would allow you to fail quickly
on search terms that can't be found); and (b) determine their
frequencies (this would allow you to search for terms in inverse
frequency, if that's what you really want). Creating an inverted index
is, of course, a possibility, but text search is so fast and,
furthermore, you don't have the complexities of creating and
maintaining the index itself.  Wu and Manber, the developers of the
'agrep' tool (which uses some really fancy and powerful partial
matching techniques and is used by the Glimpse and Webglimpse search
engines), have argued precisely this point.

Sun Wu and Udi Manber: Fast Text Searching Allowing Errors.
Communications of the ACM, pp. 83-91, Vol. 35, No. 10, Oct. 1992, USA.

Sun Wu and Udi Manber: AGREP - A Fast Approximate Pattern-matching
Tool. Proceedings of the Winter 1992 USENIX Conference San Francisco,
USA, 20.-24. Jan. 1992, pp. 153-162, Berkeley, USA, 1991.

Udi Manber and Sun Wu: Approximate Pattern Matching. BYTE pp. 281-292,
November 1992.

There is a Python port of agrep available as a module called 'agrepy'
at the following site:

http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~mw263/pyagrep.html

As noted in an earlier post, regexes alone can't do what you want.
There are other techniques that might do what you're looking for, for
example, Aho-Corasick (and some other) automata.  Aho-Corasick
automata are able to 'parallelize' pattern matching so that multiple
strings can be matched against a text in a single pass. Aho-Corasick
automata are easy to implement in both their deterministic and
non-deterministic forms in Python.

Aho, A., and Corasick, M. Efficient String Matching: An Aid to
Bibliographic Search. Commun. ACM 18, 6 (June 1975), 333--340.

http://www-sr.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~buehler/AC/html/Automaton.html

Good luck,

Win


From http  Mon Mar 22 19:30:15 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 16:30:15 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<m23c80pg8i.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <7xzna8be20.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Heather Coppersmith <me at privacy.net> writes:
> What advantages *do* C and Java have for such large projects?  How
> many bug-free, meets-the-full-spec, on-time, under-budget examples
> of applications written in those languages do we have?

It was a real question, not a rhetorical one, and your answers are
reasonable.

We may not have C or Java examples of those apps that are on-time and
under budget, but at least we have examples now that are deployed and
that work, even if they were delivered late and over budget.  We don't
have ANY examples for programs like that in Python, whether delivered
on time or not.  On the other hand, we haven't been writing stuff like
that in Python for as long.

I'd like to think that a suitable implementation of Python, or
something pretty closely resembling Python as we know it, could do
pretty much anything Common Lisp can do, and CL has been used for some
very big apps.  However, the current Python implementations seem aimed
at smaller projects.


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Fri Mar  5 12:30:46 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 09:30:46 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403050930.c1bec4@posting.google.com>

antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad) wrote:

> <tag1>This</tag1>
>     <tag2>is</tag2>
>        <tag3>a</tag3>
> <tag1>test</tag1>

> I need to write "This is a test"

Assuming no nested tags (in which case you'd have to specify the problem
more completely), and no entity reference issues, any DOM Level 1
implementation can do this, eg. with minidom:

  from xml.dom import minidom
  doc= minidom.parse(inputFilename)

  parent= doc.documentElement
  children= [child for child in parent.childNodes if child.nodeType==1]
  content= ' '.join([child.firstChild.nodeValue for child in children])

  fp= open(outputFilename, 'wb')
  fp.write(content)
  fp.close()

For more complicated structures, the 'textContent' property in DOM Level 3
might be of use. (Insert standard pxdom plug here.)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 21:19:00 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:19:00 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> You have two options.  First, convert the string to Unicode and use code
> like the following:
> 
>     replacements = [(u'\xe9', 'e'), ...]
>     def remove_accents(u):
>         for a, b in replacements:
>             u = u.replace(a, b)
>         return u
> 
> 
>>>>remove_accents(u'\xe9')
> 
> u'e'
> 
> Second, if you are using a single-byte encoding (iso8859-1, for
> instance), then work with byte string:
>     replacement_map = string.maketrans('\xe9...', 'e...')
>     def remove_accents(s):
>         return s.translate(replacement_map)
> 
> 
>>>>remove_accents('\xe9')
> 
> 'e'
> 
> If you want to have strings like u'?' in your programs, you have to
> include a line at the top of the source file that tells Python the
> encoding, like the following line does:
>     # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> (except you have to name the encoding your editor uses, if it's not
> utf-8) See http://python.org/peps/pep-0263.html
> 
> Once you've done that, you can write
>     replacements = [(u'?', 'e'), ...]
> instead of using the \xXX escape for it.

Translating the replacements pairs into a dictionary would result in a 
significant speedup for large numbers of replacements.

mapping = dict(replacement_pairs)

def multi_replace(inp, mapping=mapping):
     return u''.join([mapping.get(i, i) for i in inp])

One pass through the file gives an O(len(inp)) algorithm, much better 
(running-time wise) than the string.replace method that runs in 
O(len(inp) * len(replacement_pairs)) time as given.

  - Josiah


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 16:42:41 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:42:41 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <40689851.80408@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> I wrote:
> 
> I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
> for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
> Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
> other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
> 25?

So, here we go.
The attached script processes a gigabyte of data, one
million records, in about a minute on my machine, and
finds the single duplicate.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/

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From altis at semi-retired.com  Mon Mar  8 15:00:04 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:00:04 -0800
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<rJednY3Tm_Vux9bdRVn-gQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3d43c.37$c04.67768@news.uswest.net>


"DH" <no at sp.am> wrote in message news:rJednY3Tm_Vux9bdRVn-gQ at comcast.com...
>
> > I am totally hooked on what I have learned about python.  I am going to
use
> > it to develop a simple data entry app I need for some financial record
> > keeping.
>
> For a simple data entry app, it really doesn't matter as much.  But I
> guess if you need it to work on Windows & Mac & Linux, I'd use wxPython
> or Tkinter.
>
> I assume you will have some text fields and such to add or edit a
> record, and some code to store records in a database perhaps.
> See the dbBrowser sample for PythonCard, which is based on wxPython:
> http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/dbBrowser.html
>
> Although for your app you might just want to use a standalone database
> like pysqlite or gadfly instead of mysql.

For completeness sake, Andy Todd's dbBrowser sample supports MySQL, Oracle,
Gadfly, MetaKit, PySQLite, and PostgreSQL. The dbBrowser2 sample in the
dbBrowser folder uses a wxGrid for display of data.

ka




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Mar  9 21:49:03 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:49:03 +1100
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <20040310024105.GA20145@unpythonic.net>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<20040310015609.GC782@spawar.navy.mil>
	<20040310024105.GA20145@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20040310024903.GA27790@frobozz>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:41:05PM -0600, Jeff Epler wrote:
[...]
> > >         for j in range(3, 255):
> > >             try: os.close(j)
> > >             except: pass
> > 
> > What is purpose of this part?
> 
> This closes any files open in the parent process which should not be
> available in the child.  Instead of the hardcoded value 255, it should
> probably be os.sysconf("SC_OPEN_MAX"). (see the manpage for sysconf)

Oh!  I didn't know about os.sysconf... I wonder if that's better or worse
than resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)?

-Andrew.




From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Wed Mar 10 03:27:48 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:27:48 +0100
Subject: trap attributeError from inside a dict ?
Message-ID: <404ed174$0$307$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

hello,

i would like if this behaviour can be obtained from python : trap an
attributeError from inside a subclassing dict class... (here is a silly
examples to explain my question)

class Test(dict):
 """subclassing a dict and each key will permit access to a tuple of fized
size"""
 def __init__(self):
  pass
 def load(self, adict):
  """actually it will be done from a text file with fixed size fields, each
tuple will have the same size"""
  for k in adict:
   self[k] = tuple(adict[k])

t = Test()
t.load({1: ('a', 'aa'), 2: ('(b', 'bb')})

here is what i would have :
>>> t[1].get('first')
'a'

without having to define tuple as an object or subclassing tuple, of course
now i had :
>>> t[1].get('first')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#15>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    t['A'].get('first')
AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'get'

is it possible ?

btw my question is something like is there a way from inside Test code to
say to python that when it first get t[1] it should not go further, trap the
things one ask to do on t[key] and then calling a function such as

(inside Test)
    def __get(self, key, readable):
        mapping = {'first' : 1, 'second' : 2}
        return self[key][mapping[readable]]

(maybe it is a silly design...but i need this because i do want some kind of
readable object access without having to create all these objects)




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Mar 10 11:57:21 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:57:21 +0100
Subject: Not clear on what documentation means here [pxlpluker]
References: <mailman.223.1078929013.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2nhdh$kj0$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

pxlpluker wrote:
> So what does the + mean on w+ & a+ mean?
This means that you can write to the file, seek to a different position and
then read from the file without reopening.

> Also please could someone explain w+ truncating the file.
This means that the file gets truncated.
If you open the file with w+ and write 10 bytes, the resulting file will
contain 10 bytes. If you open it with r+ and write 10 bytes, the resulting
file will contain the bytes you have just written and then bytes [10:] of
the original file.

Daniel





From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Wed Mar  3 11:08:05 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:08:05 -0600
Subject: Python and Multi-Physics
Message-ID: <005301c40139$b669d7d0$559ea380@D4XN6B41>

Hello all,

For the last six months I have been working with Python for a certain multi-physics application (Fluid-Structure Interactions) related to my project. Beyond any doubt, Python proved to be extremely useful for my calculations and scripting needs. I am going to give a presentation at a conference next week, as part of which, I plan to highlight the importance and usefulness of python in research related to Multi-Physics. I have my own examples with which I can demonstrate this effectively, but then, with my very limited understanding and experience, I am not able to come up with better ideas. 

If I come to know of more succesful stories in Multi-Physics research using python, I would like to include them too in my presentation and emphasize the spirit of using python in scientific research. I know of few companies like CFDRC and laboratories like LLNL who use python extensively for the kind of research I am talking about(from web). Is there any other individual or company devoted to such research ? Please let me know. This information would be of great help to me in presenting my stuff better.




Thanks in advance



Best Regards,
Satish Kumar Chimakurthi


SATISH KUMAR CHIMAKURTHI
Graduate Research Assistant
CFD GROUP
Mechanical Engineering
UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
Lexington
KENTUCKY - 40508
U.S.A

Email: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu
Mobile:859-420-9890
Office: 859-257-6336 X 80691
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From nobody at ericsson.invalid  Wed Mar  3 09:38:41 2004
From: nobody at ericsson.invalid (Thomas Weidenfeller)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:38:41 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c24qi6$i78$2@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>

nobody wrote:
> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
> asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
> of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
> this language.

You should be shot on sight for posting advocacy to a bunch of 
non-advocacy groups. "Thanks" for polluting the groups with yet another 
programming language war.

F'up set.

/Thomas



From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Mar  3 14:49:51 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:49:51 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar  3)
Message-ID: <104cdmv655ue565@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  praise than which there is no higher:  "I like the Python Cookbook,
edited by Alex Martelli and David Ascher.  I keep that one in my bathroom."
        Terry Carroll

"[W]e needed something more complex and expensive because the response to
any IT problem is to spend more money making things more complex."
        Robert X. Cringely on voting machines
	http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031204.html


    Everyone who tries to automate Excel fusses over the mystery of its
    constants.  Chetan Gadgil shows how simple the right approach is
	http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.147.1077776771.8594.python-list%40python.org

    Does the Stackless Sprint fit on your calendar?
        http://www.stackless.com/sprint/

    Jon Udell accurately describes how The Enterprise should 
    think of Python.
	http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/27/09FEmsnetdynamic_1.html?s=feature

    Premshree Pillai explains his use of makeExe
        http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/20247
    ... and offers an introductory set of slides for
    beginners 
	http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python-seminar-210204/slides/pySlide1.jpg.htm
    ... while Magnus Lie Hetland details use of Numarray
    for time-series management, centering on discretization
	http://hetland.org/python/disc-with-numarray

    It's scary how much people are doing in Python.  You can
    have Python Server Pages
	http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=155823
        http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/02/26/python_server_pages.html
    TwistedSNMP (!)
	http://twistedsnmp.sourceforge.net/
    a new unit-tester
	http://blog.colorstudy.com/ianb/weblog/2004/02/27.html#P63
    Serious Science
	http://dirac.cnrs-orleans.fr/nMOLDYN/
	http://dirac.cnrs-orleans.fr/DomainFinder/
    and much more ...

    Despite Python's nominal preference for clear winners, a
    basic style question about retrieval of simple configuration
    information yields an intriguing range of answsers
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=ee45f14ec478ad9

    2004, and people are still writing new newsreaders.  XPN's
    attractions include its portability, Gnomishness, and Python
    scriptability
	http://sf.net/projects/xpn


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From ericreed at mrreed.com  Sun Mar 14 11:55:22 2004
From: ericreed at mrreed.com (Eric Reed)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:55:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: help with mouse problems
Message-ID: <9230.68.124.23.9.1079283322.squirrel@webmail1.hrnoc.net>

Hello,

I'm having trouble reading mouse events in a console.  Here's my
troubleshooting so far:

1) my python script successfully reads mouse clicks in a terminal window
under x (so I know the script works)

2) I can run bs (the battleship example in the ncurses distro) in a
console, so I think I know that ncurses is installed with gpm support, and
that gpm is configured correctly

3) my script does not read mouse clicks in a console, hence my frustration.

Any suggestions?

Eric.



From sean at sands.beach.net  Thu Mar 25 15:46:00 2004
From: sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:46:00 GMT
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument 
Message-ID: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07>

I don't know that this partilarily bad programming, 
but I was interested in doing the following.

def functionname( module, var1, var2 ):
	import module

I would like to be able to pass the module name
as an argument and have the module imported as a result.

For instance... functionname( os, "1", 234)

Thanks for any help.
-- 


From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sun Mar 14 15:52:46 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:52:46 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
References: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <u9tei1-qqo.ln1@valpo.de>

Luca T. wrote:
> 1) I need to run some linux commands (from inside my app) that
> require superuser privileges (mkfs, losetup, etc), how do i do
> that? (I do not want to run my app with root privileges, but it
> will just ask the user for the root password before proceeding)

man sudo(1), su(1) or setuid-bit (chmod(1))

> 2) When i execute the command i need to read its output (especially
> the error messages) to know if everything went fine but i do not
> know how :

see the popen family of functions in the Python library.

>( 3) How can i know if the user that is running my app is
> root or normal user?

os.getuid() 

Mathias


From no at sp.am  Wed Mar  3 16:37:55 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:37:55 -0600
Subject: Automatic web form transactions
In-Reply-To: <1d17eeb7.0403031204.466e4ca@posting.google.com>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403031204.466e4ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5uOdnVbEF6CuzdvdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>

Jay Davis wrote:
> We've been using the excellent ClientForms module with
> urllib2 to read forms, fill them in, and then submit
> with 'response = urlopen(form.click())'.  The process
> usually works very well.
> 
> But some forms, which work straightforward in a
> browser, don't work with form.click().  For instance,
> in one simple form the response is:
> 
> "Sorry, this form cannot be posted to from external source."

The web form script (additem.php) might be checking the referrer.
Set the http request referrer header to a URL the the URL of the webform.

See if something like this works:
request = form.click()
request.add_header("Referrer", "url of the form")
response = urlopen(request)

If that doesn't work, maybe it is checking a cookie or something.
You could replace urlopen with ClientCookie.urlopen maybe.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 04:34:39 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 10:34:39 +0100
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
Message-ID: <tyfn0696x8w.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Darabos Daniel <cyhawk at sch.bme.hu> writes:

> Do you have some advice for me?

I'll write the concise outline in words here. If you want a more
detailed explanation, then you could do worse than reading the thread
suggested by Michele. Therein he and I go into quite some
(excruciating and graphic :-) detail of what is going on.

The original problem is that there is a single binding of "i" which is
shared by all the lambdas you shove into "l". You want each lambda to
have its own, separate, binding of "i". To do this, you need to create
a new scope which binds "i" (originally, all the lambdas find "i" in
an outer scope). In Python, the only way to create a new nested scope
is with functions (which includes lambdas); any local variables in a
function are bound in a new inner scope. You sholuld create an i which
is local to your function (lambda), and bind it to the value you want.

For example:

  lambda i=i: p(i)

Notes:

"i=i" means "i is a parameter (hence also a local variable) whose
default value is 'i at the time of function creation'" ...

... therefore, the lambda now has its own "i", which is bound to the
value of the outer "i" at the time that the lambda form is being
evaluated.


From average at moonman.com  Mon Mar 29 22:59:54 2004
From: average at moonman.com (Zipher)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 19:59:54 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <30985729.0403291959.2dafe546@posting.google.com>

[Mark Hann]
> Obviously Prothon is not Python compatible, so I have taken the liberty of
> implementing many changes that have been imagined for the almost mythical
> Python 3.0...

Gee, my love of Python makes me feel a little guilty about looking at
another language, but Prothon does look appealing.  Classes really do
start looking archaic...  Would a threesome be out of the question?

My Python3k suggestions for Prothon:

--Take advantage of iterators early on for return values to avoid
things like having both dict.items() and dict.iteritems(). 
(Decorators add even larger possibilities for fresh syntax and other
considerations.)

--Choose "{:}" syntax for empty dict creation to reserve "{}" for
sets.  (Or: use "{}" for both, and do automatic "set-to-dict
promotion" upon encountering a (key, value) assignment.)

--Functions that return multiple, but unique, values should return a
set, not a list, to communicate same (ex: dict.keys(), dir(), etc.). 
(Consider iterator caveat above, however.)

Such functions often have surprising uses for set operations anyway. 
Consider, for example, using set operations on dir() to answer
questions like Which parent functions/variables get re-assigned in the
child class? or What new fns/vars does this child add?

--Dict should inherit from Set.

--No Dict.update(), since this is now identical with Set.__ior__()
(i.e. d1 |= d2).

Could follow Python's behavior with regard to key collisions (a matter
of contentious debate if I remember), OR perhaps even better:

--Dict object could contain optional "collision function attribute"
that is called to resolve values on key collisions.

Consider, for example, an easy Bag(Dict) object with said attribute
assigned to "operator.add" for the union method(s).  This would also
maintain the >10x speed factor (in Python anyway) of using underlying
C-implmentation rather that hand iteration through dicts.

--With prothon's "immutability" bit and other considerations, does the
language need both tuples AND lists?

Also, perhaps this is an opportunity to address handling single vs.
multiple element parameters.  That is, how to avoid things like both
list.extend() and list.append() -- which one adds only a single
element?  If the language had a way to indicate whether a parameter
should be treated as an atom vs. a collection, it would reduce a lot
of ambiguous (within an object) and inconsistent (across objects)
method names and the unending debate that seems to occur each time.

Perhaps Python's later enhancements (decorators?) could make this more
natural, or maybe a new construct would be required...

BTW, I vote in favor of character case being semantically meaningful. 
I like the language informing me (and enforcing) semantic meaning
through syntax (much like Python's indention).  Ditto for bang-endings
(ex. list.sorted!).

Off the cuff, but only two cents....

Zipher


From steve at ferg.org  Tue Mar 16 18:09:26 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 15:09:26 -0800
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0403161509.48ad1965@posting.google.com>

Not full of examples, but free...
http://www.ferg.org/python_intro/


From dietrich at zdome.net  Wed Mar 17 00:07:21 2004
From: dietrich at zdome.net (Dietrich Epp)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:07:21 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
In-Reply-To: <4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <F85CEF70-77D0-11D8-A4B1-0003934ACDEC@zdome.net>

[replying to both replies]

On Mar 16, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Do you have an example of this that doesn't involve comparisons between
> different types?  In Python, except for complex numbers, comparisons
> between instances of different types is guaranteed to be consistent, 
> but
> not necessarily helpful.
>
> If you're doing comparisons, not to mention sorting, between instances
> of fundamentally incommensurable types (like instances of a class and
> strings), I'd say that's programmer error, although admittedly it is a
> little strange that you found a circular situation like that.

I guess I could write a patch... I suppose my complaint is that rich 
comparison with different types neither raises an error nor gives 
consistent results, and I expect either one or the other.  I'd be 
scared to write a patch that added a field to the type structure, and 
I'd be a bit ashamed to write a kludge patch.

I wouldn't say comparing different different types is necessarily an 
error, though.  The last time I sorted a list, it was heterogeneous -- 
it contained different file classes, some with paths, and some 
temporary files which couldn't have paths by design (both subclasses of 
object).  I sorted it so the output wouldn't be in some arbitrary, 
impossible-to-read order, the program didn't depend on the order at 
all.

I wonder if this could benefit performance?  I.e, when comparing 
objects of different types, if the 'comparison class' (number, 
basestring, etc.) is compared first, other comparisons might be 
skipped.  This is an edge case though, so nobody should notice/nobody 
will care/any detriment to more common cases should be avoided.

I've got a lot of other patches for other software I could be writing, 
so I suppose this isn't really important at all. 
  




From no at spam.pls  Wed Mar 24 05:54:52 2004
From: no at spam.pls (Matthias)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 11:54:52 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:

> >>>>> "Jacek" == Jacek Trzmiel <sc0rp at hot.pl> writes:
> 
>     Jacek> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>     >> ... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is
>     >> static typing ...
> 
>     Jacek> Care to provide some examples to back this opinion up?
> 
> Programming is just a lot of work in statically typed languages, so
> you need to work very hard to get even the basic functionality
> working. You might not have energy/time/money to make proper unit
> tests after/during the development.

Aren't unit tests used to _save_ energy/time/money?
If so, why should this be different w.r.t. typing?



From domma at procoders.net  Fri Mar  5 06:57:37 2004
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:57:37 +0100
Subject: again py2exe and codecs
Message-ID: <c29pv7$huu$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I still have problems to get cjkcodecs to work with py2exe. I added
cjkcodecs to my setup.py like this:

opts = {
    "py2exe" : {
        "includes" : ["encodings","encodings.*","cjkcodecs","cjkcodecs.*"],
        "packages" : ["encodings","cjkcodecs"]
        }
    }

After that, my distribution contains _gb2312.pyd and _big5.pyd but at
runtime I get an unknown encoding error, if I try to use gb2312 or big5. Any
hint?

regards,
Achim




From rzantow at ntelos.net  Sat Mar  6 18:59:28 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:59:28 GMT
Subject: Utterly OT:[Was Re: Need better string methods]
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A4C17566601rzed@63.223.5.95>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in
news:0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc at 4ax.com: 

> [...]     Here is a typical line of garbage from a
> statefile revision control system (simplified to eliminate some
> items that pose no new challenges):
> 
> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson 
> \n" 
> 
> The problem is to break this into its component parts, and
> eliminate spaces and other gradoo. 

[UTTERLY OFFTOPIC QUESTION]:
This "gradoo" of which you speak ... where did you learn the word? I 
only ask, because I know (and use) "gradeau", pronounced like I 
imagine "gradoo" would be pronounced, to mean miscellaneous cruft or 
garbage ... but I've only ever heard it used by a small group of 
people who, as far as I know, originated the use of the word in Green 
Bay, Wisconsin, in the mid-1970's.

[returning now to regular programming...]

-- 
rzed



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Mon Mar  8 21:35:03 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:35:03 GMT
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <104q5jpg86q2udf@corp.supernews.com>
	<2004030819064420092%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <slrnc4qbao.viu.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-03-09, Simon Willison <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
> Our largest list at the moment is 4,000 addresses. The business we are in 
> (local online newspaper) means we are very unlikely to ever have more than 
> 10,000. The answer certainly relates to sendmail, but I'm interested in any 
> experience other people may have with this kind of task. At the moment I'm 
> looking at using smtplib and just cycling through calling smtp.send() once 
> for every address but I'm not confident that that this is a particularly 
> efficient method. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it.

    At the minimum since, AFAIK, Sendmail doesn't do batching on its own you'd
want to sort the list and send out one message per domain by using multiple
RCPT_TO lines.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 14 16:32:31 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:32:31 -0500
Subject: Question on making names visible in packages
References: <slrnc59er9.3hp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <db45c.219$QY2.35584@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Kenneth McDonald" <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnc59er9.3hp.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net...
[snip]
>
> import Package
>
> and then to use the classes as
>
> Package.Class1, Package.Class2, etc.
>
> However, I'm only able to get this behavior when I leave the
> class definitions in the __init__.py file. When in other files,
> they of course have to be referenced as :
>
> Package.filename.Class1
>
> Is there some way of making the names visible at the top level
> of the module, to mask the fact that they are split amongst
> different files within the package?
[snip]

In your __init__.py you can add :

from filename import Class1

to make the names visible at the top-level.

HTH
Sean






From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Mar 31 15:00:18 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:00:18 GMT
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4e9mq$2gcu5j$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <172c458ff7d44264334d1a1e59448d93@news.teranews.com>

>As I'm against capital punishement; twentyfive to life for top-posters, 
>I say.
+1
    --dang


From noah at noah.org  Fri Mar 19 22:57:53 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 19:57:53 -0800
Subject: Need recommendations for installer setup tool
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403191957.7385feba@posting.google.com>

I'm currently writing install/setup scripts in bash and Python 
for installing our product on UNIX servers. Our products depends 
on several packages that need to be configured, compiled, and installed.
For example, we have an PHP product. The setup configures and installs
the following: Apache, openssl, mod_ssl, pnglib, php. Most of these
follow the standard "tar zxf, configure, make, make install"
(except for libpng... grrr...). The setup script asks a few basic questions
such as the root path for the install and some network information so
that it can configure name and ip based virtual hosting in Apache.
So each install script requires quite a bit of customization.
It's not just simple matter of copying a bunch of files to /usr/local/bin.

I would like something that could put a GUI on this process.
Not that this would make it any easier to use, but it would make it
easier to market :-P Ideally the installer would allow for both GUI and 
text based interfaces.

Are there any Python based products that would help me build these installers?
I'm trying to move away from the bash scripts and go with 100% pure Python.

Could RedHat's Anaconda be what I want? Most of the info I've seen for
it discusses how to use it to install Linux, not how to use it to build
custom installers for your own products.

Yours,
Noah


From olku at web.de  Tue Mar  9 02:51:17 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:51:17 +0100
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
Message-ID: <200403090751.i297pHQ29638@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hello,

could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list without using eval or exec?

The string looks like:

'[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc","abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'

and should be converted to a list:

[['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], 'abc'], ['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], ['abc', ['abc', 'abc']], 'abc'], 'abc']

I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.

-- 
--
Oliver Kurz




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Mar  4 07:58:22 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:58:22 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<mailman.39.1078245647.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<4045a616.8831515@news.t-online.de>
	<7xishlsoqt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <671915071dfc62e81dd9619b0ffef82d@news.teranews.com>

On 03 Mar 2004 11:40:42 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>You could suggest adding an "attribute" to the existing keyword:
>
>   print foo,bar    # print with spaces
>   print.n foo,bar  # print without spaces
>
>I don't care too much for this idea but it would solve your immediate
>concern.

statements/keywords don't have attributes or types.  
But if they did, some of the discussion surrounding 
the 'import' statement (regarding paths and literals)
or the 'def' keyword (regarding decorator/wrappers)
would have other ways to look at those problems.
    --dang


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  7 23:05:20 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 04:05:20 GMT
Subject: Question please
References: <mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4iS2c.428$3R5.409@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

After spending 1/2 hour next door at my neighbors house just yesterday, getting rid of virus / spam / spyware /general crap.
I noticed the machine (it's a compaq) also had python 2.2 on it.
I left it   :) ... for me I thought it would be good carma.



  "Abe and Barb K." <abenbarbk at bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list at python.org...
  I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2 with win32 extensions software.

  I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if I can just remove this software without affecting anything in my system as it is taking up space if I'm not going to use it?

  Thanks so much.
  Barbara K.
-------------- next part --------------
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From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 17:06:41 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:06:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to read between xml tags?
In-Reply-To: <404ECDE0.4060809@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <20040310220641.87701.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, Miki, your code works great to strip the XML tags
and return a clean text file.

But the thing is, I want to process the part between
tags each time it is read in.

For example if I have a tagged XML doc like so:

<tag1>Something here</tag1>
<tag2>something else here</tag2>

I want to get "Something here" in one read operation
and process it before I move on to get "Something else
here".

So any way to go about this?



--- Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote:
> Hello Anthony,
> 
> > 1. The read operation must either read a full tag
> or
> > ignore the tag.
> > 
> > 2. If the read operation reads between <P> and
> </P>,
> > then it must reads the whole thing between those 2
> > tags all at once.
> > 
> > How can I achieve this please?
> I think the xml.sax module is what you're looking
> for.
> A small, briefly tested something might be:
> ---
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> from xml.sax.handler import ContentHandler
> from xml.sax import parse
> 
> class ArticleHandler(ContentHandler):
>      def __init__(self, *ignore):
>          ContentHandler.__init__(self)
>          self.data = "" # Data buffer
>          self.get = 0 # Get flag
>          # Ignore hash
>          self.ignore = {}.fromkeys([i.lower() for i
> in ignore])
> 
>      def startElement(self, name, attrs):
>          if name.lower() in self.ignore:
>              self.get = 0
>          else:
>              self.get = 1
> 
>      def endElement(self, name):
>          self.get = 0
> 
>      def characters(self, content):
>          if self.get:
>              self.data += content
> 
> 
> from sys import argv
> handler = ArticleHandler()
> parse(argv[1], handler)
> print handler.data # Will print full data
> 
> handler = ArticleHandler("headline")
> parse(argv[1], handler)
> print handler.data # Will print data without
> headlines
> ---
> 
> HTH.
> Miki
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sat Mar  6 15:02:40 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:02:40 +0100
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
	<FfOdnaSS6aaUl9Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <0cnph1-6s4.ln1@valpo.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Mathias Waack wrote:
>> Bart Nessux wrote:
>> 
>>>Is there a shred module in Python?
>> 
>> First: It is not possible. Let me cite some sentences from
>> shred(1):
>> 
>>        CAUTION: Note  that  shred  relies  on  a  very  important
>>        assumption:  that the filesystem overwrites data in place.
>>        This is the traditional way to do things, but many  modern
>>        filesystem  designs  do  not satisfy this assumption.
> 
> I'm fairly sure that at least some "journalling" or "logging" file
> systems, such as ReiserFS, or maybe ext3, on Linux, violate this
> assumption.

shred(1) knows that, the manpage lists the FS from above and a lot
others as examples. 

Mathias


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar  9 11:52:15 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:52:15 -0700
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <77rr40te5uq1gj4i66u7054qk5ejla7qaf@4ax.com>

Here is the simplest design pattern so far (taking the suggestions of
Skip Montanaro, Christian Tismer and Stephen Horne a few steps
further):

line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"

import re  # regular-expression module
t = line.lstrip('.').rstrip('\n ')  # strip both ends
t = re.sub ('\s+', ' ', t)  # squeeze excess white space
clean = re.split ('\s*\|\s*', t) # include whitespace

print clean
# ['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']

Notes on this example:
1) Import re is a small minus, but this will probably be needed
elsewhere anyway; it is a long-established part of Python; and it
provides functionality that is well-known in the EDA tools industry.
2) I chose a meaningless temporary variable 't' to chain these
operations together, rather than more colorful names, which I felt
were actually a distraction in this case.  Fancy names suggest - this
is something important you need to rememeber for later.
3) The lstrip and rstrip operations can be chained on one line with no
loss in clarity, which is much more important than compaction.  My
rule is - Use whatever space will improve clarity, but don't waste
any.
4) I have used regular expressions in spite of their complexity,
because in this case, the complexity is 'encapsulated'.  You don't
need to understand the expression to see that the last line splits
around the '|' and includes whitespace.
5) The use of regular expressions allows a pattern like the above code
to serve as a template for other similar tasks. Some of the earlier
solutions relied too much on the specifics of this example.

The design pattern above looks to me like a good general pattern for
processing strings with the limitation that the split operation must
be last.

I still think Ruby has a slight advantage in string processing.  You
just can't beat:
line.chomp.squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)
for clarity and conciseness.  (Again, assuming we can tolerate not
knowing the details of the regex.)

I would like to see Python go one better than Ruby by adding some
methods to simplify working with lists of strings.  The general
pattern is:

string_or_list.op1.op2.split.op3.op4.join.op5.op6

All methods work on either strings or lists of strings.  The split
method makes subsequent operations apply to each split separately.
The join method converts a list of strings back into a simple string.

Having this much flexibility means you don't have to be so clever in
sequencing the operations so the split is last.  In the above example,
we might do something like:

line.lstrip('.').rstrip('\n').squeeze().split('|').strip()

The last strip operation applies to each substring, so we no longer
need a regex in the split.

-- Dave



From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Wed Mar 31 12:05:28 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:05:28 -0800
Subject: problem with wxtextctrl
In-Reply-To: <5b8834c2.0403302358.2698f8f3@posting.google.com>
References: <5b8834c2.0403302358.2698f8f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sTCac.685$JX6.468@fe07.usenetserver.com>

hellprout wrote:
> hi , i have a problem with a wxtextctrl with multiline option.
> i want to write a file , line after line , in my wxtextctrl .
> But my file is too longer , and the wxtextctrl can't write the end of
> the file , i miss 100 lines of my file ...
> What can i do to have all data file ?
> 

If you are on Windows then add the wxTE_RICH style when constructing the 
wxTextCtrl.  This will switch to a native control that can handle more 
than 64k of text.

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Tue Mar 16 08:06:10 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:06:10 GMT
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
	<jeud505d4ehkoo2jtje7co6h8tne5fuuu1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5nud50d6h6oi0nov1s90ajh4o55hl4lmt4@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:53 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
wrote:

>I am looking forward to the Boost version of VPython, which should
>bring its dependencies up to date, among other advantages.
>
>Because VPython is very cool, IMO.

I almost allowed myself to miss an opportunity for a non-commercial
announcement.

For those attending PyCon - and hanging in until the end, as mine is
the last presentation on Friday - I will be demoing and discussing
PyGeo  Which uses VPython for rendering. The presentation should give
folks a good sense of VPython's functionality.

Art  


From jolsen at mail2world.com  Thu Mar 18 07:41:38 2004
From: jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 04:41:38 -0800
Subject: dictionary wart
Message-ID: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>

Does python have a way of defining a dictionary default? 
I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?

Intuitively I would imagine that

a={}
a.set_default(my_default)

would do this -ie. a[my_new_key] should now return the the default
value my_default instead of creating an exception. This would be
similar to how it is done in other languages, eg. Ruby:

a={}
a.default=value

But surprisingly, in python set_default is a dictionary method used
for looking up a key...

Jesper


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 10 10:32:45 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:32:45 -0700
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2mrga$t7g$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1acu40p5p0ei5kbrnv2kgs5fbmpdpu57gs@4ax.com>

On 10 Mar 2004 05:43:22 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

[snip]

>The other issue is that you're wrong to make print() a function.
>Instead, it should be a callable object.  That way, the default print
>object has state:
>
>    print(a, b, c)
>    print.set_output(my_file)
>    print(a, b, c)
>    print(x, y, z)
>    print.set_separator(None)
>    print("The value is: ", 3)

This style will encourage users to separate the setting of non-default
behavior from the place where that behavior is used.  You won't know
by looking at a print statement what it is going to do.  For
situations like this, where we assume the default behavior (adding
spaces, for example) will only be over-ridden in a few places, I would
rather see the over-ride right where it is used.

show(5, 6, separator = ",")

If this needs to be done throughout the program, and typing the extra
argument gets to be annoying, then I would define a new function with
my intended default.

showWithComma(5, 6)

I would like to change the default behavior of the list class, but
Python (wisely) doesn't let me.  Instead I define a class
MyList(list), and add the methods I want.

-- Dave



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Mar  2 18:22:31 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:22:31 -0600
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
References: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eMydncpaOLqqitjdRVn-jQ@speakeasy.net>

On 2 Mar 2004 13:26:17 -0800, 
	F Jamitzky <fxj at mpe.mpg.de> wrote:
> 5 *times(lambda: printf("Hello World!") )
> or
> [toast, cheese, wine] *each (lambda food: eat(food) )

These formulations are no improvement over the obvious code:

for i in range(5):
    print 'Hello world!'
    
or

for food in [toast, cheese, wine]:
    eat(food)

It's certainly possible to use Python language features to get Ruby-like
code, but this code isn't as clear, so why bother?

--amk


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 11 10:59:49 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:59:49 -0600
Subject: backquote
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16464.36085.668734.929363@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Olaf> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?
    Olaf> Trying to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.

`object` is equivalent to repr(object).

Skip



From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 21 19:53:22 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:53:22 GMT
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc5sc8c.qbu.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc5scj0.qbu.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <slrnc5sc8c.qbu.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>, Joe Mason wrote:
> This has not been remotely my experience.  Recently I tried 5 different
> Linux JVM's for one program, leaving the Sun JRE until last because it
> was a bit harder to install, and only the Sun one worked.

(I meant to add the name of the program in question, but I can't find it
now.)

Joe


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  2 02:32:20 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:32:20 -0800
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
 proposals]
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c@posting.google.com>
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c21df9$nm5$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> 1. Assuming all "for" loops and list comprehensions are replaced
>    with Haskell bindings rules, what about backward compatibility
>    problems? For instance: is there enough code relying on the loop 
>    variable being available outside the loop?

Having a variable available outside of a loop can be both a convenience 
and inconvenience, depending on the situation.  I have used it before, 
but acknowledge that it is poor form.


> 2. If, due to compatibility issues, it is not possible to change the
>    binding rules of existing loops, would it make sense to propose
>    these binding rules for Python 2.4 generator comprehension?
>    This would not be backward incompatible, but would it generate
>    confusion?

 From what I can gather from the python-dev mailing list, generator 
expressions seem to work the same as list comprehensions, without the 
list.  If I am incorrect, feel free to correct me.


> 3. Assuming the rules can be changed without real trouble, is the feature
>    worth enough? Do people care about it, and is there somebody willing
>    to take the job? 

Changing the rules can cause real trouble.  If loop variables were an 
unintended consequence, were not desireable by a large portion of Python 
users, and were used rarely, if at all, then I believe it is likely that 
would have been removed already.

  - Josiah


From trevp at trevp.net  Mon Mar  1 19:57:08 2004
From: trevp at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 16:57:08 -0800
Subject: Pure Python HTTPS Server
References: <mailman.183.1077835573.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.208.1077908506.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4qtcozv5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0402280017.5f8af771@posting.google.com>
	<7xd67zsfqg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0402281027.21cc232d@posting.google.com>
	<7xllmnaub3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0402291501.1d42e0e2@posting.google.com>
	<7xfzctnyne.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <47e891f1.0403011657.2f3f01db@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xfzctnyne.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> trevp at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin) writes:
> > > Use gmpy, http://gmpy.sf.net
> > 
> > That's another couple modules users have to install though (GMPY and
> > GMP).  I was thinking the current pow() implementation could be
> > optimized a bit.
> 
> My lib is written to use gmpy when it's available and the default
> stuff if "import gmpy" fails.  The default stuff is fast enough on
> current desktop cpu's for most client side applications that I can
> think of.  For a server app, you always want more speed, but asking
> someone to install GMP (if it's not already present) is less onerous.

Good points and good advice, thanks.  Depending on key size, this
gives me a 3-6x speedup in handshaking.

Trevor


From no at spam.invalid  Wed Mar 10 18:03:19 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:03:19 -0800
Subject: question: numarray c extension error handling?
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <c2o6rp$lbo$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <qnksmggs6uh.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>,
 cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) wrote:

>...
>>     /* Align, Byteswap, Contiguous, Typeconvert */
>>     kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
>> ...
>>     if (!kernel...)
>>         return PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
>>                  "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
>
>This is also ok (assuming there is nothing between this and the above
>which makes a reference to objects). If NA_IoArray returns NULL,
>there isn't anything to DECREF.

I'm afraid I was too selective in extracting code, making it look like 
no DECREF was even wanted. Here is a more complete extract. The first 
test can fail even if one or two of the arrays was successfullly 
"extracted", so a DECREF is wanted then, and all the more so for the two 
tests after that:

...
    /* Align, Byteswap, Contiguous, Typeconvert */
    kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
    data    = NA_IoArray(odata, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
    convolved = NA_OptionalOutputArray(oconvolved, tFloat64, C_ARRAY, 
data);

    if (!kernel || !data || !convolved)
        return PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
                 "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");

    if ((kernel->nd != 1) || (data->nd != 1))
        return PyErr_Format(_convolveError,
                "Convolve1d: numarray must have 1 dimensions.");

    if (!NA_ShapeEqual(data, convolved))
        return PyErr_Format(_convolveError,
                "Convolve1d: data and output numarray need identitcal 
shapes.");

    Convolve1d(kernel->dimensions[0], 
           NA_OFFSETDATA(kernel),
           data->dimensions[0],   
           NA_OFFSETDATA(data),
           NA_OFFSETDATA(convolved));

    Py_XDECREF(kernel);
    Py_XDECREF(data);
...

It sounds as if I should submit a bug report on the example.

-- Russell


From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  1 03:11:24 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:11:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PyCrypto and RSA
References: <06Y%b.36359$Kc3.1122381@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <461e97f34e2a894153688a858e1b38f3.46955@mygate.mailgate.org>

Ok! I resolved the problem.

--
Don't you know why your Python application has crashed? Take a loot to
http://www.pycrash.org
My Home Page: http://cnoviello.altervista.org


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 15 02:45:56 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:45:56 +0100
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
References: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net> <c302qi$3lj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4053daa0_1@themost.net> <c311kc$l1h$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4054d4be$1_1@themost.net> <c32osk$5rl$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c33mvk$1s6$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Paul Watson wrote:
> 
>> However, I am in a Python 2.1 environment.  Do you know of any techniques
>> that would work under Python 2.1?
> 
> eval('"' + s + '"')
 
I should have warned you that this is a security hole, as it allows the user
to execute arbitrary code. E. g:

<args.py>
import sys

def somefunc():
    print "somefunc called"
    return ""

def unescape(s):
    return eval('"' + s + '"')

print unescape(sys.argv[1])
</args.py>

$ python args.py '"+somefunc()+"'
somefunc called

Peter



From inkedmn at inkedmn.com  Sat Mar 13 05:03:48 2004
From: inkedmn at inkedmn.com (Brett Kelly)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:03:48 -0800
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files
	in	the Directory
References: <mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.13.10.03.45.813258@inkedmn.com>

something like:

import os

for f in os.listdir('/path/to/dir'):
	<do stuff to f>

that's the best way i know for doing something to each file in a directory...

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:22:09 +0000, Shalen chhabra wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the files 
> in the directory.
> For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python program 
> against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python code 
> instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be cumbersome 
> giving the argv of each file every single time.
> 
> This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a 
> flavour of python for this.
> 
> Thanks
> Shalen
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! 
> (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 13 15:22:20 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 20:22:20 GMT
Subject: need optimizing help
References: <68aadb4a.0403131007.8eeeb26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2vqhr$20sq19$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

rabbits77 <rabbits77 at bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> I have a dictionary with a very very large(possibly millions) of
> key/value pairs.
> The key is a tuple that looks like (id,date)
> What is the fastest way to get out all of the values that match any
> key given that they individual key elements are coming from two
> seperate lists?
> The approach of
> for id in IDS:
>     for date in dates:
>         data=myDict[(id,date)]
> 
> seems to just take too long. Is there a speedier, more pythonic, way
> of doing this? Any help speeding this up would be much appreciated!!

Hmm... since you're looking up every possible combination of 'id' and
'date', there is no short cut of algorithm.  As for speed, it may be
faster to use external database.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar 19 07:38:07 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:38:07 GMT
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3u10l3tcg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Can one run a 1.5 .pyc file with the 2.x version
> interpreters and vice versa?
> 
> How about running a 2.x .pyc using a 2.y interpreter?

Both are hopeless, in practice.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  ZAPHOD:  OK, so ten out of ten for style, but minus several million
           for good thinking, eh?
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 2


From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Mar 26 19:58:00 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:58:00 GMT
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <6E57243C-7EF3-11D8-8D1D-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>
	<Pine.LNX.4.50.0403260929460.6527-100000@shane.zope.com>
	<mailman.449.1080312877.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc69ina.a35.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.449.1080312877.742.python-list at python.org>, Shane Hathaway wrote:
>> I would write a class.
>> 
>> obj.add_listener(class):
>>     def on_success(self):
>>         print 'yay!'
>>     def on_error(self):
>>         print 'ohh.'
> 
> Oops, that's not quite correct.  It should pass an instance rather than 
> a class.
> 
> obj.add_listener((class)()):
>      def on_success(self):
>          print 'yay!'
>      def on_error(self):
>          print 'ohh.'
> 
> That's not pretty. :-(

Use Prothon, and that ugliness goes away!

(Sorry to thread-jack, I just thought that was a good example of where
prototypes are nice.)

Joe


From me at me.com  Sun Mar 21 21:47:54 2004
From: me at me.com (Jason Sewall)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:47:54 -0500
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <c3i6at$ei$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.136.1079633391.742.python-list@python.org>
	<480e9240.0403181909.741abfa8@posting.google.com>
	<c3i6at$ei$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <105skus763ms4bf@corp.supernews.com>

It's affine for the one-line-pair case, but the full algorithm actually 
uses n line pairs to describe a nonlinear transformation. Since the 
transformations are weighted for each pair, the matrix solution doesn't 
cut it for the general case.

Of course, since I didn't mention it, you wouldn't have known that - sorry.

It should be obvious now why I want the speed tho - doing that 
transformation n times and then adding in some extra sums and a division 
  will only make things slower.

Jason


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Mon Mar 29 08:50:15 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:50:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <mailman.1.1080428101.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c499in$d4v$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

<achaljalan at yahoo.com> writes:

>--0-1311302120-1080428097=:61125
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>Hey,

>I have a string
>        s =740446505        "O'HANLON, Benjamin"
>i need to use one RE to convert it into 
>  
>       (740446505, "O'HANLN", "Benjamin"),

What you need to tell us is what the input *pattern* is eg

     s =NNNNNNNNN            "Surname, Forename"

what are the rules? are those quotes always there? can you guarantee a single
comma? (ie no initials), do you always strip the second O from the Surname? :)

It actually looks suspiciously like a fixed format string which would be much
easier to break up using string slicing and string routines like split(',')
and find('"') etc.

Have we had the following quote on c.l.p recently: 

    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
    regular expressions." Now they have two problems. 
	 
	--Jamie Zawinski, in comp.lang.emacs 	 

Seeing this the first time did actually make me realise I was probably using
REs too often.

Eddie


From missive at frontiernet.net  Fri Mar  5 16:29:20 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 21:29:20 GMT
Subject: Module dependencies
References: <UN02c.1359$kc2.21736@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <Qi62c.406$OZ2.200@news02.roc.ny>

On 2004-03-05, Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>    I was wondering, it there any common application to show direct and 
> indirect dependencies of a module?  Something with html output like pydoc?
> Thx and Regards,
> Nicolas


I suppose egrep will do an ok job for direct dependencies ...

egrep "^import" foo.py



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Mar 30 08:14:12 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:14:12 +0200
Subject: Tabs and spaces
In-Reply-To: <106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040330131412.GC27344@nl.linux.org>

John Roth wrote:
> As far as rendering programs, the most obvious
> culprit is OE, which for all of its defects and security
> problems, is still one of the most used mail and newsgroup
> clients out there.

<pre>
T h e r e   i s   a   s o l u t i o n   ; - ) 
</pre>

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:55 UTC:
	15.0?C   wind 5.8 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature



From limeydrink at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 06:19:29 2004
From: limeydrink at hotmail.com (Limey)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 03:19:29 -0800
Subject: Python database access questions
Message-ID: <aa18a5ab.0403120319.9b76dc1@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

I want to write an application that will talk to a RDBMS.

The application needs to be platform neutral from both an operating
system and database backend point of view.

I have decided to create a prototype in Python, the RDBMS will be
PostgreSQL running on a Linux box.

I am from a Microsoft background and I now take for granted components
such as ADO (Activex Data Objects) that make database access simple
and portable.

I have been looking at the Python DB-API modules and this seems to
make it relatively simple to access a RDBMS but it seems to be at a
lower level than say ADO and I feel this may potentially cause me more
work to prevent potential problems that I may encounter.

Let me explain...

ADO allows you to reference field objects when manipulating records
retrieved from the database, this makes your code less likely to be
broken by reordering of the columns of say a "select * from table"
query, it also allows you to get information on the datatypes of the
fields and so on.

ADO also provides a safer way to pass information when using parameter
queries or stored procedures, you have a parameter object that you can
assign parameter values to and any problems such as "' " /" within the
string are then handled by the objects to prevent breakage of the sql
statement passed to the RDBMS.

ADO allows you to create a "recordset" that allwos you to iterate
through the records and columns and also then assign values to the
field objects within and update these changes with method calls, it
seems all this type of stuff needs to be manually done with DB-API
i.e. you would have to create all the DML statements for this.

What are your views on this, it may just be me being naive as I only
know of the Microsoft way of doing things ;-), you may find
technologies such as ADO  cumbersome and/or restrictive ?

Any views on this matter would be greatly appreciated :-)


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Mar 27 21:10:30 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:10:30 GMT
Subject: initialize a class
References: <mailman.3.1080431006.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6cbb2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.3.1080431006.20120.python-list at python.org>, myang wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to construct a 'point' instance with two different methods (see
> the following codes). Why the second one can't work? It's strange, since
> 'self' refers to the newly created object, and the '=' assign a initialized
> instance to it.
> 
>>>> class Point:
> ... 	x = 0.0
> ... 	y = 0.0
> ...
>>>> def initializePoint(a,b):
> ... 	p = Point()
> ... 	p.x = a
> ... 	p.y = b
> ... 	return p
> ...
>>>> class Ppoint(Point):
> ... 	def __init__(self,a,b):
> ... 		self = initializePoint(a,b)

By the time it calls __init__, the Ppoint object is already created, and
a reference to it is passed in to the function in the self parameter.
What your code does is calls initializePoint, which creates a second
object, and stores a reference to *that* in self.  Then it throws it
away, since self is returned.  The original Ppoint object isn't touched.

The standard way to write an initializer is this:

    class Point:
        def __init__(self, a = 0.0, b = 0.0):
            self.x = a
            self.y = b

    def initializePoint(a, b):
        p = Point(a, b)
        return p

Since __init__ has default values, ig you just call Point(), you get 0.0
as before.  But now initializePoint() isn't very useful, and only exists
to keep your old code working.

> Acutally, what I want to do is like the code above: I have a huge class in a
> module, and a function to initialize instances of this class. But I want the
> instance of the class to be initialized when it's created. How can I fulfill
> such a task? Thanks!

If you're allowed to change the class, just move initializeC to
C.__init__, as above.

If you're not allowed to change the Point class, but you can change the
initialize function, you can do this:

    class Point:
        x = 0.0
        y = 0.0

    def __initializePoint(p, a, b):
        p.x = a
        p.y = b

    def initializePoint(a, b):
        p = Point()
        __initializePoint(p, a, b)
        return p

    class Ppoint(Point):
        def __init__(self, a, b):
            __initializePoint(self, a, b)

Now the two ways to create a point (Ppoint() and initializePoint()) both
create an object, then call the same initiailzation code.

If you can't change any of the code from the module, it's more complex.
Complain to whoever wrote it - why on Earth did they design it that way?

Joe


From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 12:15:29 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:15:29 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<jrk360l8atn02kpknap7srnmhvk0hq3j5h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3v3jg$2chetr$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ron Levine wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:16 -0800, "Brandon J. Van Every"
> <try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in
>> Python. Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means
>> of development, dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for
>> efficiency.  Any pointers appreciated.  ...
>
> http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/

Thanks for the link.  It does demonstrate heavy Python usage for 3D
graphics; pity it is freely licensed only for noncommercial use.
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/licensing.html


-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

"Trollhunt" - (n.) A searching out for persecution
of persons accused of Trolling. (c.f. witch-hunt)



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 14 19:49:08 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:49:08 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com><7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost><8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com><mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org><eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com><mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org><fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com><mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1059vfeseubq59d@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc at 4ax.com...
>
> I *would* like to do something about numbers and strings and other
> shared objects not getting updated, because that is going to be hard
> to explain.  Maybe we could somehow switch off the generation of
> shared objects for modules in a 'debug' mode.

It doesn't matter if numbers and strings get updated. They're
immutable objects, so one copy of a number is as good as
another. In fact, that poses a bit of a problem since quite
a few of them are singletons. There's only one object that
is an integer 1 in the system, so if the new version changes
it to, say 2, and you go around and rebind all references to
1 to become references to 2, you might have a real mess
on your hands.

On the other hand, if you don't rebind the ones that came out
of the original version of the module, you've got a different
mess on your hands.

John Roth
>
> -- Dave
>




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Mar 11 10:52:35 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:52:35 -0500
Subject: backquote
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d%%3c.6563$j05.291102@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Olaf Meding" <OlafMeding at compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a at posting.google.com...
> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?  Trying
> to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.
>
> Olaf

>>> class C:
...  def __repr__(self):
...   return "repr"
...  def __str__(self):
...   return "str"
...
>>> c = C()
>>> str(c)
'str'
>>> repr(c)
'repr'
>>> `c`
'repr'
>>>





From s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk  Tue Mar 23 08:06:16 2004
From: s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk (Sarah Mount)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:06:16 -0000
Subject: Problem using py2exe
References: <c3n3g1$ba$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk><mailman.237.1079973538.742.python-list@python.org><c3p5kd$6hv$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>
	<mailman.275.1080044554.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3pcoa$gq7$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>


"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.275.1080044554.742.python-list at python.org...
> "Sarah Mount" <s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk> writes:
>
> > "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.237.1079973538.742.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >> IIRC, pygame imports some of its modules from C code, and py2exe cannot
> >> track these.  You should try to include some (or all) of the pygame
> >> modules explicitely with the --includes command line option.  Or you
> >> simply include the whole pygame package with '--packages pygame'.
> >
> > Thanks Thomas, but sadly --packages didn't make any difference :-(
> >
> > Installing pyObjc seems impossible on Windows as ffi support is missing
> > (doesn't wok with ctypes either) and py2exe isn't available for Linux!
>
> Now you've lost me.  What has pyObjc and ctypes to do with pygame?

Sorry. The packages that are missing are "AppKit, objc, Foundation".
Googling for these, they seem to be part of pyObjc, which can't be
installed without libffi.

HTH,

Sarah




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  4 01:09:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 01:09:16 -0500
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
In-Reply-To: <du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
	<du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <m9OdnfmPgrSQVdvd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Ville Vainio wrote:
>>>>>>"Paddy" == Paddy McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.net> writes:
> 
> 
>     Paddy> from ESR on his scripting language tools. I would be
>     Paddy> interested to know if he still usesPython? Did he try any
>     Paddy> other "scripting" languages such as Ruby or Lua?
> 
> Yes - for example he wrote a prototype of his SCO source code
> comparison tool in Python. I think he still mostly uses Python for the
> stuff he writes himself.

Another small data point: some work on the open source Python DNS server 
"oak" was done recently by ESR, as noted in the change logs or the credits.

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Mar 18 05:10:15 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:10:15 +0100
Subject: destructuring tuple and list
References: <8dad5312.0403162334.435de9c6@posting.google.com>
	<c39cui$nqm$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.102.1079553447.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3bsh9$h1r$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hans Nowak wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> I've also thought about that. s/t like real pattern matching might be
>> cool, but is probably too much of a paradigm shift.
>> 
>> What I do is this:
>> 
>> l = (5,6,3,4)
>> x,y,tail = l[0:2], l[:2]
> 
> This does not seem to work, though:
> s, 
> 

Yep, that was a typo. Of course the second slice has to look like this:

l[2:]

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From timr at probo.com  Thu Mar  4 03:07:44 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:07:44 -0800
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
References: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
Message-ID: <onod401p4rjbe9kuu10q6518l93ds7rks3@4ax.com>

Walter Huf <hufman at cobalty.com> wrote:
>
>Okay, I'm busy making a wonderful cgi program, and everything is working 
>wonderfully so far. I'm using the standard cgi library and the Cookie 
>library and they have been a huge help. Thanks to those who have created 
>them!
>However, if I try to send binary data, like jpgs, through cgi, the data 
>gets corrupted in a very small manner. Whenever my program sends the 
>character 10, it gets converted to character 13+character 10. I found out 
>this only happens when I send data to stdout. If I send the data to a 
>standard file object, it works fine. However, with the stdout, the problem 
>arises.
>...
>Please help me with this problem. It has me stumped.

Really?  This is such a common problem that most Windows Python programmers
encounter it very early in their experiments.

The issue, of course, is that stdout is opened as a text file, not as a
binary file, and we all know that the LF to CR-LF conversion you describe
is part of the normal processing of a text file in Windows.

If you must send binary data through stdout, do this before you start to
write:

  import os
  import msvcrt
  ...
  msvcrt.setmode( stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY )
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 31 10:09:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:09:39 +0200
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <c4en2v$uvm$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Derek Fountain wrote:

> I'm coming to Tkinter from Tcl/Tk. In Tcl I can get a variable in an event
> using the %<X> substitution mechanism. For example, I can set up a command
> like:
> 
>  entry .e -validate 1 -vcmd "checkkey %d"
> 
> knowing that the '%d' will be replaced by something useful - whether the
> entry widget has recieved an insert or deletion in this case. The checkkey
> procedure will recieve "insert", "delete" or whatever as its first
> parameter.
> 
> What is the Tkinter way of getting that %d value?

import Tkinter as tk
root = tk.Tk()

def check(action):
    print {"1":"inserting", "0": "deleting"}.get(action, "should never
happen")
    return True
checkId = root.register(check)

entry = tk.Entry(root, validate="key", validatecommand=checkId + " %d")
entry.pack()
root.mainloop()

The above was found by trial and error, so no warranties :-)
You could use check() directly, like

entry = tk.Entry(root, validate="key", validatecommand=check)

but then it will be called without parameters.

Peter




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 16 19:07:27 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:07:27 -0500
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>

"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2 at posting.google.com...
> Still trying to understand "=="... It appears as if two equal objects
> can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them:
>
>   >>> l=[1]
>   >>> s=l
>   >>> l.append(s)
>   >>> w=[1]
>   >>> r=[1,w]
>   >>> w.append(r)
>   >>> s
>   [1, [...]]
>   >>> w
>   [1, [1, [...]]]
>   >>> s==w
>   True
>
> Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.
>
>   >>> s[0]=2
>   >>> w[0]=2
>   >>> s==w
>   False
>
> All of a sudden they have become unequal.
>
> Axel

You've got a recursive structure! I originally thought
that the [...] was something you'd done to the printout,
but it isn't.

I think the original True is a bug. It's getting confused
by the recursion.

John Roth




From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  8 12:53:07 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:53:07 GMT
Subject: python bnf somewhere?
References: <a8623416.0403052021.6e1a07f1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.50.1078547956.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u10zdy4d.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     Corey> Hey everyone, sorry to bug people, but I remember seeing a nice
>     Corey> complete BNF for python somewhere in the documentation but I
>     Corey> can't for the life of me find it anymore.  Anyone have a link?
> 
> There are references all over the language reference (everywhere a BNF
> productions is shown) to
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt
> 
> This is probably what you were thinking of.

Also note that this grammar isn't what's used to actually parse
Python, and is probably non-trivial to use for that purpose.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  "Also, does the simple algorithm you used in Cyclops have a name?"
  "Not officially, but it answers to "hey, dumb-ass!"
                       -- Neil Schemenauer and Tim Peters, 23 Feb 2001


From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 29 02:48:33 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 07:48:33 GMT
Subject: Creating WBMPs with PIL
References: <c40087$4r$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <Xns94BB58676E502duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Zeek" <zknws at 1zk.net> wrote in news:c40087$4r$1 at news2.netvision.net.il:

> Folks,
> 
> Anyone has implemented WBMP creation using PIL?
> 
> There used to be one called wbmpconvsrc.zip at
> http://www.rcp.co.uk/distributed/Downloads
>  but the link is not functioning anymore
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
WBMP support for PIL is still online at 
http://zope.org/Members/Duncan/WbmpImagePlugin.py/view

That file gives PIL support for wbmp images. It doesn't include the script 
that actually does the conversion, although it should be easy enough to 
recreate. If I remember correctly it did a load and a save, and not a lot 
else.

If I find a backup of the zip file, I'll let you know.


From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Mar 10 06:11:26 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 06:11:26 EST
Subject: The Order Of Dictionary Entries
Message-ID: <in93i1-ctp1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

I am aware that dictionary order is not guaranteed.  But I ran into
something puzzling today.  I filled a dictionary dynamically as a
program ran.  Up to a certain point, the key order was the order
in which things were added.  However, at some point, the dictionary
appeared to reorder its contents in some non-deterministic way - in
fact, it looked like it was putting all the uppercase keys first,
followed by lowercase keys.

I'm just curious, just what _is_ the approach used for ordering
dictionary keys?

(This was confirmed on both Unix and Win32, BTW).
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar 26 08:11:15 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:11:15 +0100
Subject: Calling function keywords from a dictionary
References: <slrnc682dt.ht.e9526547@stud3.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <c41a5j$l0m$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Alexander Straschil wrote:

> I have a dic like
>  dic = {
>  'action': 'myfunc',
> 'x': 1,
> 'y': 2,
> 'z': 3
>  }
>  and I have a method
>  def myfunc(x, y, z, a=None, b=None)

I assume you forgot the self parameter.
> 
> What I want to do ist calling the method defined in 'action' with
> all the named parameter, also instead of
>  self.myfunct(x=1, y=2, z=3)
> I want to do
>  f = getattr(self, dic['action'])
>  f(named parameter from the dic)

>>> class A:
...     def first(self, x, y, z, a=None, b=None):
...             print "calling first"
...             print "x =", x
...             print "a =", a
...
>>> a = A()
>>> d = dict(action="first", x=1, y=2, z=3)
>>> d
{'y': 2, 'x': 1, 'z': 3, 'action': 'first'}
# as a sideeffect, pop() removes "action" from the dictionary
# make a copy if that bothers you
>>> bm = getattr(a, d.pop("action")) 
>>> bm(**d)
calling first
x = 1
a = None
>>> d["a"] = 99
>>> bm(**d)
calling first
x = 1
a = 99

Peter


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Fri Mar  5 21:41:02 2004
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:41:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
	<2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>
	<mailman.37.1078527293.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2bdnu$s49$1@news.island.liu.se>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> I'm not sure I understand how that can work.  Suppose I have multiple (hard)
> links to a small file named "small".  If the OS moves it around to reduce
> fragmentation (implying it will have a different inode next time it's
> opened) how does it efficiently track down and change all inode references
> to it?  In theory it could keep a cache mapping inode numbers back to the
> directories which reference them, but that could consume a fairly large
> chunk of memory to maintain.

I think you have misunderstood how Unix file systems work.

A directory is a list of directory entries, each entry consisting
of a name and an inode number.  There may be several directory
entries in a file system that point to the same inode, and the
entries can be in different directories, and need not have the
same name.  The names are also called "hard links".  All names
for a file are equal in status -- none is worth more than any of
the others.

The inode is the central point of information for a file.  It
holds information like:

 - file type (regular file, directory, device file, ...)
 - file permissions
 - file ownership
 - timestamps (data modification, inode modification, read)
 - number of names (hard links) the file has
 - file size
 - list of data blocks for the file

The actual location of the inode on the storage device can
typically be calculated from the inode number, and from a small
index of inode clusters in the file system.

Finally there are the actual data blocks for the file.  They are
*not* part of the inode, and they do not need to be placed near
the inode -- they can be scattered around at random places on the
storage device.  The list of data blocks in the inode holds only
pointers to the data blocks.

In a typical Unix file systems, like the Fast File System of BSD
ancestry (in common use in many Unices; it is called UFS in
SunOS, for example), or the 2nd and 3rd Extended File System in
Linux (ext2 and ext3), the inode only contains pointers to the
first few datablocks (10 is a common number).  There is also a
pointer to a single indirect block, which in turn holds pointers
to data blocks 10-1034 (or something).  And there is a pointer to
a single indirect-indirect block, containing pointers to indirect
blocks, containing ponters to actual data block.  Depending on
the implementation, the inode may also contain a pointer to an
indirect-indirect-indirect block.

A file system that moves around files when you overwrite them,
will only move the data blocks, not the inode.  The inode will
stay the same, and in the same position on the storage device.


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"Adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit"       ! bellman @ lysator.liu.se
          (From The Mythical Man-Month)       ! Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar  5 09:38:38 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:38:38 -0500
Subject: self for modules
References: <slrnc4gvn4.md9.b.scharpf@homer.bertram-scharpf>
Message-ID: <c2a3de$aqo$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Bertram Scharpf" <b.scharpf at tesionmail.de> wrote in message
news:slrnc4gvn4.md9.b.scharpf at homer.bertram-scharpf...
> Hi,
>
> when I want to access the module itself, I can write
>
> ----
> import sys
> module_self = sys.modules[ __name__]
> ----
>
> Is there a smarter way to do this?

shorter and not implementation specific is

>>> mymod = __import__(__name__)
>>> mymod
<module '__main__' (built-in)>

I presume this works in imported module also.

Terry J. Reedy






From hydroxide at inorbit.com  Mon Mar 22 21:02:36 2004
From: hydroxide at inorbit.com (T. Ogawa)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 18:02:36 -0800
Subject: The LOOP macro
References: <7701505j1m6lq36eeo699q8f5turh20jlm@4ax.com>
	<87u10r46xz.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com>
	<PXqdnXLEhNkYOcjd3czS-w@speakeasy.net>
	<87k71h6gbn.fsf@thor.piquan.org>
	<sPudnTsfA9GRPsHd3czS-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <da01153a.0403221802.56bc8dc2@posting.google.com>

(xposted to c.l.python)

Here is a partial implementation/proof of concept for Python... the
remainder is left as an exercise ;-).  Working examples based on some
of the lisp examples previously posted are below.  It doesn't use
anything particularly tricky (ie: no exec/eval/__metaclass__/__new__).
 Using it is, of course, clumsier than loop for short examples where a
listcomp makes more sense, but apparently not really so for longer
ones...

[Use, share, enjoy - all at your own risk.  Do not run nuclear
reactors or medical equipment using it]

###################################### BEGIN loop.py
class Loop(list):
    class Max(object):
        def __cmp__(self, other):
            return 1

    def fix(self, item, key, default):
        if item is None:
            item = self.curr
        return item, self.d.get(key, default)
        
    def collect(self, *args,**kwds):
        try:
            key = kwds["key"]
            item = self.curr
        except KeyError:
            try:
                key, item = args
            except ValueError:
                key = "_"
                try:
                    item = args[0]
                except IndexError:
                    item = None
            
        item, val = self.fix(item, key, [])
        val.append(item)
        self.d[key] = val
        
    def summing(self, key, item=None):
        item, val = self.fix(item, key, 0)
        self.d[key] = val + item

    def minimizing(self, key, item=None):
        item, val = self.fix(item, key, self.Max())
        self.d[key] = min(val, item)

    def maximizing(self, key, item=None):
        item, val = self.fix(item, key, None)
        self.d[key] = max(val, item)

    def counting(self, key, item=None):
        self.summing(key, 1)

    def final(self):
        key = self.d.keys()[0]
        return self.d[key]

    def __init__(self, mylist):
        self.d = {}
        for elem in mylist:
            self.curr = elem
            self.each()
        final = self.final()
        if isinstance(final, str):
            self.append(final)
        else:
            try:
                self.extend(final)
            except TypeError:
                self.append(final)
    
    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        if attr in self.d:
            return self.d[attr]
        return []
    
###################################### END loop.py

from random import random as rand

# Rob Warnock no.1
#
# def listcomp_js(mystrings):
#     ", ".join(["'%s'"%word.replace("'", "''") for word in
mystrings])

class FixQuotes(Loop):
    class Escape(Loop):
        def each(self):
            self.collect()
            if self.curr == "'":
                self.collect()

        def final(self):
            return "".join(self._)
        
    def each(self):
        self.collect("'%s'" % self.Escape(self.curr)[0])


def join_strings(mystrings):
    return ", ".join(FixQuotes(mystrings))

x = ["Here", "is", "Bob's", "house", "and", "Charles'"]
print join_strings(x)
print


# Peter Siebel no. 1
#
# print [rand() for i in range(10)]

class MyLoop(Loop):
    def each(self):
        self.collect(rand())
print MyLoop(range(10))
print


# Peter Siebel no. 2
class MyLoop(Loop):
    def each(self):
        self.minimizing("mymin")
        self.maximizing("mymax")
        self.summing("mysum")
        self.counting("mylen")

    def final(self):
        return self.mymin, self.mymax, self.mysum/float(self.mylen)
print MyLoop(range(100))
print


# Widget setup for the next examples
class Widget(object):
    def __init__(self):
        if rand() > 0.5:
            self.is_good = True
            self.colour = "red"
            self.is_foo = True
            self.is_bar = False
        else:
            self.is_bar = True
            self.is_good = False
            self.colour = "blue"
            if rand() > 0.5:
                self.is_foo = True
            else:
                self.is_foo = False
widgets = [Widget() for i in range(10)]


# Peter Siebel no. 3
#
# print [w for w in widgets if w.is_good]

class MyLoop(Loop):
    def each(self):
        widget = self.curr
        if widget.is_good:
            self.collect(widget)
print MyLoop(widgets)
print


# Peter Siebel no. 4
class MyLoop(Loop):
    def each(self):
        widget = self.curr
        if widget.colour == "red":
            self.counting("red")
        elif widget.colour == "blue":
            self.counting("blue")
        self.counting("total")

    def final(self):
        return self.red, self.blue, self.total
print MyLoop(widgets)
print


# Peter Siebel no. 5b
class MyLoop(Loop):
    def each(self):
        widget = self.curr
        is_foo = widget.is_foo
        is_bar = widget.is_bar 
        if is_foo:
            self.collect(key="foos")
        if is_bar:
            self.collect(key="bars")
        if is_foo and is_bar:
            self.collect(key="both")

    def final(self):
        return self.foos, self.bars, self.both

for widgetset in MyLoop(widgets):
    print widgetset


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Mar 10 07:52:32 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 13:52:32 +0100
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c2mvo0$pgo$1@news.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <wzishc50fj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Gerrit Muller <gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl> (GM) wrote:

GM> did you look at the module zipfile? This seems to be able to everything you
GM> describe?

And otherwise there are always the info-zip free command line utils.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From python473 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 00:00:10 2004
From: python473 at yahoo.com (John Howard)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 21:00:10 -0800
Subject: address a port
Message-ID: <9eabe547.0403232100.501b8bbe@posting.google.com>

Basic has the inp() statement for accepting data from a port accessed
from a memory location. Does python have a similar instruction?


From b.ambrosius at hccnet.nl  Mon Mar  1 10:32:58 2004
From: b.ambrosius at hccnet.nl (Boba)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:32:58 +0100
Subject: ADO and COM contants
References: <403e4207$0$12847$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<4040e17c_1@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4043561d$0$135$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Roger,

Thanks. You gave me more answer than I'd asked for. I think I solved the
problem with the
constants by adjusting the adovbs.inc file so that it contains constants
that python
understands. But there is no Null and no Nothing constant. I'll try your
suggestion
and use None.
Douglas Savitsky mailed me saying that they should show up as
win32com.client.constants.Null
and win32com.client.constants.Nothing. At least the should be in the file
that makepy
generates. They don't.

Bob Ambrosius


Roger Upole <rupole at hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
4040e17c_1 at 127.0.0.1...
> You'll need to use makepy for the ADO library.
> Once you create an instance of the object, the constants will
> appear in win32com.client.constants, and then the code would
> look like
>    cmdQuery.CommandType = win32com.client.constants.adCmdStoredProc
>
> For null parameters, most of the time you can use None and win32com will
> do the right thing.
>
>    hth
>       Roger
>
> "Boba" <b.ambrosius at hccnet.nl> wrote in message
> news:403e4207$0$12847$3a628fcd at reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl...
> > Hi,
> > I'm using python as the language in ASP pages to query a database ussing
> the
> > com interface. I want to do a parameter query and I have to use
constants
> > like Null and Nothing. Does anyone know how to use the constants in
> Python?
> >
> > Part of the code:
> > #------------------
> >  cmdQuery = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Command")
> >  cmdQuery.ActiveConnection = cnn
> >  cmdQuery.CommandText = "aStoredQuery"
> >  cmdQuery.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc
> >
> >  # parameter: startdate
> >  qryParm = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Parameter")
> >  qryParm.Name = "parDateStart"
> >  qryParm.Type = adDBDate
> >  tmpDate =
> > req.documentElement.selectSingleNode("//request_parDatBegin").text
> >  qryParm.Value = Null  # at least sometimes
> >  cmdQuery.Parameters.Append(qryParm)
> > #---------------
> > end code
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Mar 23 12:23:25 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:23:25 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3pave$27ohpv$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <donn-30B316.09232423032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <c3pave$27ohpv$1 at ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>,
 Stefan Axelsson <crap1234 at hotmail.com> wrote:
...
> Now, since we're into 'functional' languages (and you confess to mostly 
> being anoyed by the LISP syntax than anything else), let me plug Haskell 
> also, even though we've now moved quite far away from Python. Purely 
> functional, lazy evaluation, nice (interactive) compiler available 
> (GHC), though performance perhaps isn't as easy to achive as with 
> O'Caml. If you're interested there's more at http://www.haskell.org.

Did you mention indent structured?  (optionally.)  I can't
say I've heard of a noticeable trend towards the kind of
industrial use you can see for Erlang, but Haskell is an
adventure anyway - quite far away from Python, for sure.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Tue Mar 16 16:35:14 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:35:14 GMT
Subject: Dictionary & data
Message-ID: <mqK5c.22047$8G2.9439@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

I have retrieved data from a database and I want to place this data into a
dictionary or something like a HashMap (in Java).  Can someone point me to
an example?

kbass




From lutz-horn at web.de  Thu Mar  4 15:46:19 2004
From: lutz-horn at web.de (Lutz Horn)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 20:46:19 GMT
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?
References: <fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c284iq$1r3vit$1@ID-32301.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

* Larry [4 Mar 2004 10:35:54 -0800]:
>  I'm a C++/java programmer and have done a bunch of perl coding.
>  I am thinking of maybe learning python. What's a good intro primer,
>  easy to read good examples, understandable, maybe not one of those 2
>  inch thick books etc. ?

Take a look at "Dive Into Python - Python from novice to pro", available
as Free Documentation from http://www.diveintopython.org/

Lutz
-- 
Do you want to think like a computer scientist? Read http://thinkpython.com/
Read books about Free Software at http://www.network-theory.co.uk/
Free Software: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Mar  1 13:25:32 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 10:25:32 -0800
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
	<tyfy8ql9bfb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403011025.2d021777@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfy8ql9bfb.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> > Thinking a bit more, the issue is not about the scope rules, it is about
> > how the "for" loop is interpreted. Currently
> 
> Heh, this hadn't yet appeared on my server at the time I started
> writing my last followup to you. It seems that you have spotted for
> yourself, that which my article attempts to point out ... again :-)

Yes, but still your thoughtful explanations may be useful to others
who got catched by the same issues. Personally, I did understood
quite well how Python worked, but I didn't realized until this thread
that Scheme actually works the same, since the recursive loop hides
the effect. I also thank you for correcting my sloppy and/or 
incorrect usage of the terminology. Nice discussion, anyway! :)


       Michele


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Mar  2 00:28:59 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 05:28:59 +0000
Subject: Tkinter default bindings
In-Reply-To: <221e7b06.0403010849.e78448@posting.google.com>
References: <221e7b06.0403010849.e78448@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40441B9B.3050408@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Phil Schmidt wrote:
> I have an Entry widget inside a Frame. The Frame contains other
> widgets as well. I have bound the <Key> event to the Frame, but I
> don't want the Frame to receive the event when the Entry widget has
> focus.
> 
> So, I bound the <Key> event to the Entry widget (bound to method
> a_key()). This works, except that both the Entry and Frame widgets get
> the event. This also forces me to implement event handlers, which is
> fine for the Frame since that's what I want to do. But I want the
> Entry to use its default handler, not my own handler. Rather than
> duplicate all that functionality, I found I could accomplish this by
> temporarily unbinding the events, re-generating the event, and then
> re-binding the events, as follows:
> 
>     def a_key(self, e):
>         self.top.unbind('<Key>')
>         self.entry.unbind('<Key>')
>         self.entry.event_generate('<Key>',
>                                   keycode=e.keycode,
>                                   keysym=e.keysym,
>                                   )
>         self.entry.bind('<Key>', self.a_key)
>         self.top.bind('<Key>', self._parent_class__keypress)
>         return 'break'
> 
> This works, but it's kludgy. Is there a better way to do this? I just
> want the Entry widget to receive the event when it has focus, behave
> in its default manner, and not have the event propagate upward to
> containing widgets.

You could just find out who has focus (root.focus_get() and compare with 
the entry... something like (untested)

def a_key(self, event):
     has_focus = root.focus_get()
     if theEntry==has_focus:
         print "the entry binding"
         return "break"
     else:
         print "the frame binding"


Martin



From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 17 11:00:58 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:00:58 GMT
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.61.1079483057.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n06f5upz.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:

> On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 07:07:27PM -0500, John Roth wrote:
> > "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2 at posting.google.com...
> [...]
> > >   >>> s
> > >   [1, [...]]
> > >   >>> w
> > >   [1, [1, [...]]]
> > >   >>> s==w
> > >   True
> [...]
> > 
> > I think the original True is a bug. It's getting confused
> > by the recursion.
> 
> I don't think it's a bug.  In what sense are they unequal?  Both variables
> are a sequence of two elements, the integer 1, and a sequence that's equal
> to the outer sequence (i.e. s==s[1] is True, as Python will tell you).
> Every element of the sequence s is equal to the corresponding element of the
> sequence w, as far as I can see, even though there is infinite recursion.
> 
> Python is behaving exactly as I would expect it to.  (Although in the face
> of such pathological data structures, I wouldn't mind terribly much if it
> didn't...)

It will raise RuntimeError (or somesuch) in Python 2.4.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  #ifndef P_tmpdir
  printf( "Go buy a better computer" );
  exit( ETHESKYISFALLINGANDIWANTMYMAMA );
                         -- Dimitri Maziuk on writing secure code, asr


From boris.gontar at rogers.com  Tue Mar 16 18:02:24 2004
From: boris.gontar at rogers.com (Boris)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:02:24 GMT
Subject: PyGTK TextView - how to change bgcolor for one line?
Message-ID: <4IL5c.24991$uUx1.16138@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

It is pretty easy to change background color for a text segment of
gtk.TextView, or for entire widget. What I cannot find out - how to change
bgcolor for entire line, from left to right widget margin? Can anybody
help?

Thanks, Boris.



From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Sat Mar  6 05:38:49 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:38:49 +0100
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1078564978.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.54.1078564978.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4049a9a7$0$41760$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

dont bother schreef:
> Hey,
> I have a simple problem:
> I have this dictionary output as per the format I
> desired :
> index : value
> 
> However, I want to write this to a file, instead of
> just printing out to the std output.
> I tried to make a new string s= i+ ":" +v
> and fwrite(s) to the file. First it does not work.

That is because, per your example, i is an integer,
not a string. s = str(i)+":"+v would work.

> Second I loose the relationship of index with the
> value which I dont want. Can some one point me how to
> write this to a file while still preserving index:
> value relationship as it is present in the current
> dictionary.

Entries in a dictionary are not sorted. But, in
your example, you already have the index in the
dictionary. Why don't you use that:

indexList = [(i,w) for w, i in dct.iteritems()]
indexList.sort()
for i, v in indexList:
     s = int(i) + ":" + v
     print s

Note that here you are basically rebuilding the list
that you started out with. So, another alternative would
be to keep that list around, and use that as the source
for printing:

for i, w in enumerate(words):
    s = int(i) + ":" + v
    print s

Regards,

Ruud.

> 
> Sorry for the basic questions, I am struggling with a
> project.
> 
> Thx
> Dont
> words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
> dct = {}
> for i in xrange(len(words)):
>      dct[words[i]] = i
>      #print dct
> 
> 
> for i, v in enumerate(dct):
> 	#s= i+":"+v
> 	print i,":",v
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
> 



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 16 02:34:10 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:34:10 +0100
Subject: building Python under Services for Unix (SFU)
In-Reply-To: <367a4461.0402231152.7ee88c0b@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.25.1076710025.31398.python-list@python.org>
	<367a4461.0402231152.7ee88c0b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c36alk$8n1$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Mike Maxwell wrote:
> I think the moral of the story for Microsoft is that they have some
> work to do to make SFU a competitor.  At least that's my view; I may
> be missing something.

Certainly: The Interix subsystem is just one part of SFU, other parts
being the servers (NFS, NIS, etc). Those have no competition from
Cygwin.

As for the Python port to Interix: Somebody would have to contribute
the port to Python (sf.net/projects/python), just as people had to
actively contribute a cygwin port (and that was not easy to write,
either). Whether it is Microsoft's job to make this contribution
is debatable.

Regards,
Martin



From bob at redivi.com  Sat Mar  6 19:32:05 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:32:05 -0500
Subject: ELF object file analysis tool in Python?
References: <mailman.78.1078608601.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2004030619320516807%bob@redivicom>

I've done this for the Mach-O object file format.. it didn't take me 
too long, I can't imagine ELF would be much harder.  I actually wrote 
mine such that I could read *and write* Mach-O headers, so I could 
dynamically inspect and change load commands (used for dependency 
walking and distribution stuff).

-bob

On 2004-03-06 16:29:53 -0500, "John Benson" <jsbenson at bensonsystems.com> said:

> Thanks, but I'm looking to analyze an ELF file from a Tandem Himalaya
> platform, but using Python on Windows XP. I'm hoping there's enough
> standardization to the ELF format that I can pick it apart with an existing
> tool regardless of the particular instruction set.
> 
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:56:21 +0200
> From: Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
> Subject: Re: ELF object file analysis tool in Python?
> To: python-list at python.org
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Message-ID: <40458FA5.40807 at zoran.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> 
> Hello John,
> 
>> I already googled and only turned up some references dating from 2000.
>> Anybody know of any current Python tool that can open up and dissect
>> information from an ELF (Executable and Linking Format) object file? I
> don't
>> care about machine language stuff, but goodies like what sources were used
>> in the compile, and what routines are used.
> 
> Just parse the output of `objdump -g'. Note that some compiler (such as
> MSVC) save the debug information in a different file (.pdb).
> 
> HTH.
> Miki




From me at privacy.net  Wed Mar 10 21:05:35 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 21:05:35 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m2r7w0cf4g.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500,
"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

> ... Someday people will get over their attachment with being
> able to write programs with any old text editor that happens to
> be lying around, and being able to print their programs without
> needing a special formatting program, but that day isn't today,
> and I doubt if it's tomorrow.

It will be *never*.

At least emacs and vi share a common file format.  Even if you
prefer [the wrong one], you are free to use it to edit "our" files
should we ever collaborate.

Not only that, but sed, grep, awk, diff, cvs, tr, m4, perl (gasp),
python (whew!), lex, yacc, uncountable interactive shells, and any
other tool(s) you or I care to write for whatever odd requirement
comes up also share that common format (the occasional OS-imposed
newline convention notwithstanding).

Is your IDE that flexible/extensible/powerful?

So perhaps you're right, and that IDE that replaces "any old text
editor" is Unix (with all due copyright apologies) and everything
in its $PATH.

IMO, YMMV, etc.

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Wed Mar  3 19:55:43 2004
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:55:43 -0500
Subject: python + Xml + GnuCash
In-Reply-To: <8f198e47.0403030540.1ccbc9e5@posting.google.com>
References: <8f198e47.0403030540.1ccbc9e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200403031955.43015.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Wednesday 03 March 2004 08:40, Somesh Bartakkay wrote:
> GnuCash -- popular accounting s/w is developed with c+Gtk+XML.
> if i wanna develope application like gnuCash which handles flat file
> database ::
> 
> 1.weather it is wise decision to develope in python ? which is
> prefered GUI from wxPython, PyGTK ? and Why ?
> Shall i code wxPython in FUNCTIONAL programming way(nON Object
> oriented) ?
> 
> 2.weather i should go with XML or python's flatDB module which handles
> flat file databse from python for storing data.
> 
> 3.how i shold encrypt/decrypt my data which is going to store in
> datafiles-- thru pythons..keep in mind that application performance
> should b fast6..

Here's my experience:

I've written a 24,000 line Python program that's a patient
database/accounting program for an optometric/optician office. It uses
PostgreSQL as the database to store all the data. Since most of the
data processing is done by SQL commands it is plenty fast. It contains
over 10,000 patients and 16,000 transactions right now. Doing many of
the data tabulations would most likely be too slow if all the code
were written in Python. And of course using a real database allows
committing/rolling back a number of SQL statements at once and the big
one for this application is allowing multiple users.

I used PyGtk - used Glade to design each window. There are separate
window for entering patient info, frames, professional fees,
frame/lens purchase with Rx, reconciling insurance payments, tracking
the cash register contents and bank deposits, etc. 41 windows in total
I think.

I find Gtk to be fairly intuitively obvious, but Qt didn't immediately
make sense to me so I stuck with it. Plus when I started trying to
choose between Gtk and Qt, Qt had some licensing issues.

So if I were doing it, I'd do exactly what I did for the above
program. I wouldn't bother with encrypting the data - use PostgreSQL's
data security.

I've been using gnucash for over a year now and it does what I want
for the most part. I would like better tracking of investments, but
I'm not a guile/scheme programmer. I toyed with the idea of ripping
out the transaction code from my above program (it does true
double-entry accounting with split transactions) but realize how much
work it would be and also I need to learn a little more about how the
best way to track investment gains and losses. I've thought about
getting a book on how to use QuickBooks and see if it helped but I
haven't gotten around to it yet.

Dave






From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Sun Mar 14 00:00:02 2004
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 05:00:02 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for Random module
In-Reply-To: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <mFR4c.7018$Eg3.5667@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.py
> 
> This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
> the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
> are appreciated.
Paul,

I get the error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File 
"C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", 
line 310, in RunScript
     exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
   File "C:\ShaRandom.py", line 50, in ?
     print test()
   File "C:\ShaRandom.py", line 47, in test
     s += v.random()
   File "C:\ShaRandom.py", line 14, in random
     return float(a)/newrand.m56
NameError: global name 'newrand' is not defined

Is this a problem with my Python installation or something defining 
newrand that you forgot to include?

David Lees



From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Mar 23 06:36:45 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:36:45 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Windows Media Player 9 with win32com.client.Dispatch?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403231110260.20217@sampo.csc.fi>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403231110260.20217@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403231331190.31849@sampo.csc.fi>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> Anybody tried using Windows Media Player 9 via win32com?
> [...]
> Is "MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1" really the progid to use for Windows Media
> Player 9?

Hello again,

I got this far:

from win32com.client import Dispatch
wmp = Dispatch("WMPlayer.OCX")
wmp.openPlayer("C:\\Path\\To\\Media\\File")

This opens Windows Media Player 9 on my Win2000 box and starts playing the
media file. However, I would like to be able to control the media player
as well, and it is not fully self-evident how one does that.

I tried:

control = wmp.controls

This gives me a IWMPControls object that has methods for playing, pausing,
stopping etc. However, nothing happens when executing those methods, i.e.
the following simply returns None:

control.play()

Any ideas?

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar 16 07:48:13 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:48:13 -0500
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for
	Molecular	Graphics
In-Reply-To: <4056D26D.4050903@rogers.com>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<4056D26D.4050903@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4056F78D.7090606@rogers.com>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
...

> BTW, someone else suggested using VPython.  It's basically it's own 3D 
> scenegraph-level API with a very simple interface.  Not a lot of 
> mechanisms exposed, but it might have enough to get your job done.  I 
> believe it only runs under Tkinter.

I'm told (off list) that this is wrong.  Apparently it's GTK.GLArea and 
Win32 native windowing...

Sorry about that,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Mar  1 17:25:02 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:25:02 -0500
Subject: PyTable?
In-Reply-To: <731b3eeb.0403011209.13d594b4@posting.google.com>
References: <731b3eeb.0403011209.13d594b4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4043B83E.6050607@rogers.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
...

>What are these two modules about?  Another abstraction layer for the
>DB?  I've never heard of this as a concept until today, and I'm a
>little lost.  Are they mimicing functionality available in another
>language that I'm not aware of?
>
>PyTable points to another module called BasicProperty that abstracts a
>Class?
>
>Could someone help me wrap my head around what appears to be a new
>"trend"?
>  
>
Will try, though since I authored the sites that confused you I may not 
be the best person to try.  First of all, I can't really say anything 
about the Perl module, as I don't use Perl.  I'll just stick to what 
PyTable does.

PyTable's primary strength is its schema-driven nature.  A database plan 
(schema) is created which maps the structure of the database into a 
run-time introspectable data structure.

Normally the schema is created in Python code, and used to drive the 
creation of the database, (though facilities are available for 
extracting a basic schema from the database). The schema can include 
information regarding what classes to instantiate when retrieving 
records for a given table (with suitable defaults provided).  The schema 
is used internally by DBRow objects to implement update and insert 
queries, for instance.  In other words, the DBRow objects can look at 
themselves to decide what actually needs to be done to accomplish a 
given task (such as specifying their row uniquely in the table).

PyTable sits halfway between the raw DB-API (where you know only 
approximate data-type, name, and a few other minimal pieces of 
information) and a system such as PDO (where the database interactions 
are done through an object-oriented API).  PyTable is still very much 
about generating and running SQL code, you are not forced into the 
"everything is an object" mould, you can still run raw SQL (with some 
helper mechanisms to make creating complex queries easier) and integrate 
those queries into your row classes.  The PyTable DBRow objects are 
simply very rich introspectable wrappers around the DB-API records (you 
can use non-DBRow records too).

As to BasicProperty, its purpose is to allow for defining rich 
"attribute descriptors", similar to the property objects built in to 
Python 2.2 and above.  Distinction being that the BasicProperty 
descriptors are far more involved, including default values/functions, 
two levels of storage hooks for customizing behaviour, the ability to 
auto-coerce values to/from data-types on save/restore, support for 
list-of types etceteras.  BasicProperty is an extremely general 
mechanism, so it's a little hard to say what particular benefit it has 
without looking at particular applications.

    * In PyTable, the field descriptors are actually BasicProperty
      objects linked to the field schema for the table from which they
      were created, so they can, for instance, be used to lookup foreign
      keys (and their tables)
    * In PyTable's internal machinery, just about everything is a
      propertied object.  This allows for defining objects as a
      collection of properties with documentation, default-values,
      data-typing and coercion.  There are very few "__init__" methods,
      as just about everything uses the same base class which provides
      simple property-aware initialisation.  Adding/removing properties
      generally doesn't require any change to the code other than the
      actual property declaration.

Back to the subject at hand; In effect, PyTable is about trying to make 
the nitty-gritty details of dealing with an SQL-driven application 
easier by providing introspection facilities that let your code reason 
about the structure of the database (as embodied in the schema objects).

What PyTable is not:

    * Lightweight: compared to db_row or the like, it's very
      heavyweight, focused on creating interactive apps, not huge
      back-end processing apps that need to realise millions of rows
      simultaneously
    * An SQL abstraction mechanism: unlike PyDO no attempt is made to
      define a common SQL sub-set, i.e. it's not like ADO from Microsoft
    * An object-relational mapper: though it may seem like it, PyTable
      doesn't convert references to records automatically (unless you
      explicitly code a property to do so), it doesn't map pivot tables
      to pseudo-dictionaries, in general, it only executes the SQL you
      tell it to execute
    * Finished: there's still a lot of work to do to get to 1.0 beta 1
      for PyTable

Anyway, hope this helped somewhat.  Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 28 08:05:22 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:05:22 +0200
Subject: pysqlite
References: <mailman.8.1080475069.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c46iij$9vo$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Dave Harrison wrote:

> I need to be able to flash a database with the sql def'ns I have, and it
> works if I pipe my file into sqlite, but when I execute the same data as
> a giant string I get no error, but the database isn't flashed.
> 
> anyone have any ideas ? Ive tried stripping out newlines, all whitespace
> reduced to single spaces etc etc ...

Did you commit() before closing the connection?

Peter



From no at sp.am  Wed Mar  3 10:54:12 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:54:12 -0600
Subject: Replacing base class
In-Reply-To: <4045ed40@news.corbina.ru>
References: <4045ed40@news.corbina.ru>
Message-ID: <b8ydnewrHMA-YtjdRVn-tw@comcast.com>

Alexey Klimkin wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Is it possible in python to replace base class with another one?
> 
> Assume an example:
> class A:
>   def f(self):
>     print 'A'
> class B(A):
>   def f(self):
>     A.f(self)
>     print 'B'
> class C:
>   def f(self):
>     print 'C'
> 
> I need to make class Bm with the same functionality as B, but 
> derived from C, instead of A. Classes C and A have the same
> interface.
> 
> The call of f() for Bm should output:
> C
> B
> 
> As you see, the main problem is B.f, since it uses f() from base
> class. Any clues?
> 

You might want to give some more details about what you are really 
doing, because there are multiple ways to do this, but the simplest is 
to just replace A.f(self) with:
   super(B,self).f(self)
And make your classes subclass "object" so they are new style classes 
(required for "super" to work).

Another option is to make "B" a mixin class that can work with A or C or 
both:
class B: #mixin
     def f(self):
         for base in self.__class__.__bases__:
             if (base is not B) and hasattr(base,"f"):
                 base.f(self)
         print 'B'
class Test(B,C,A): pass #put mixin class first

But you might also want to create an "interface" class that specifies 
the "f" method, which A & C "implement".
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/164901
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204349
http://peak.telecommunity.com/PyProtocols.html

Then in B, you could call f() on all bases that implement that interface 
if you liked.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 16 16:42:55 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:42:55 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com><mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org><6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com><mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org><rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com><mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org><tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com><pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com><kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com><mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c37scs$j3b$1@sea.gmane.org>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le at 4ax.com...
>     def h23(freq):
>         s = complex(2*pi*freq)
>         h0 = PZfuncs.h0
>         z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
>         p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
>         return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))
>
> Notice the clarity in that last formula.  This is a standard form of a
> pole-zero transfer function that will be instantly recognized by a
> circuit design engineer.  The issue isn't the typing of extra
> characters, but the compactness of expressions.

For one use only, making local copies adds overhead without the
compensation of faster multiple accesses.  To make the formula nearly as
clear without the overhead, I would consider

import PZfuncs as z
def h23(freq):
    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    return z.h0 * (s-z.z1) * (s-z.z2) / ((s-z.p1) * (s-z.p2) * (s-z.p3))

Terry J. Reedy






From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar 31 01:21:42 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 16:11:42 +0950
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<20040331004033.536$Cl@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6kq16.mvv.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:40:34 -0700, Hamilcar Barca wrote:
> top-posting doesn't follow the rules of written European language.

I don't know why you feel the need to qualify that; I don't know of
*any* human writing system in current use where a discussion proceeds
from the bottom to the top.  So:

    top-posting doesn't follow the rules of written language.

seems stronger to me.

-- 
 \     "When I turned two I was really anxious, because I'd doubled my |
  `\   age in a year. I thought, if this keeps up, by the time I'm six |
_o__)                               I'll be ninety."  -- Steven Wright |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  2 18:07:35 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:07:35 -0600
Subject: NT service (setting Description string)
Message-ID: <jJmdnfpaDewojtjdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>

Anybody know what variable I need to define in my
class to set the long description that shows up
in the Services control panel applet?

_svc_name_         holds the short name
_svc_display_name_ holds the long name
_svc_?????_        holds the description

Thanks, Larry




From no at spam.pls  Thu Mar 25 06:21:36 2004
From: no at spam.pls (Matthias)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 12:21:36 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <36wekrh894v.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> "After", is far too late, in my opinion. It's a bit like suggesting to
> a static-typing-for-safety fan, that he should only run his program
> through the compiler _after_ he has finished developing. 

I think this method was advertised as the "cleanroom approach".
Google finds some references.



From gabor at z10n.net  Wed Mar 24 12:50:21 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:50:21 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <1080150619.4947.6.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>

On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 15:16, Bill Rubenstein wrote:
> ...snip... 
> > > other thing is, that in the projects i work on, there seems to be
> > > very hard to do unit tests
> ...snip...
> 
> The ability to do unit testing should not be an afterthought.  It should be 
> considered as a major influence on the architecture of a project.
> 
> If one cannot do proper unit testing, the architecture of the project is 
> questionable.

ok, so let's use a specific example:

imagine you're building a library, which fetches webpages. 

you have a library which can fetch 1 webpage at a time, but it is a
synchronous library (like wget). you call him, and he returns the page.

but you want an async one.

so you decide to build a threadpool, where every thread will do this:
look into a queue, and if there is a new URL to fetch, fetches it with
his wget-like library, and saves the html page somewhere (and maybe
signals something).

and now the user who uses your library, simply adds the URL to fetch,
and can check later asynchronously whether they are already fetched or
not.

could you tell me what unit tests would you create for this example?


(a more generic request: is there on the internet a webpage with
something like this? one where they have some complex
modules/programs/algorithms, and they show how to write unittests for
them?)

thanks,
gabor




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 02:55:54 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:55:54 +0100
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
References: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
Message-ID: <c26nea$gs0$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Walter Huf wrote:

> However, if I try to send binary data, like jpgs, through cgi, the data
> gets corrupted in a very small manner. Whenever my program sends the
> character 10, it gets converted to character 13+character 10. I found out
> this only happens when I send data to stdout. If I send the data to a
> standard file object, it works fine. However, with the stdout, the problem
> arises.

Have you tried groups.google.com? Searching c.l.py for "stdout binary"
should suffice. For now:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-May/161515.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-May/161319.html

Peter


From helmi03 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 22:48:59 2004
From: helmi03 at yahoo.com (helmi03)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 19:48:59 -0800
Subject: jpg, jpeg metadata
Message-ID: <8a560941.0403301948.146d251@posting.google.com>

does anyone know how to get/set jpg or other image types metadata using Python.
I had search in vault of parnassus and PIL, but only can read the EXIF.

Long live Python!


From pwatson at redlinec.com  Sat Mar 13 23:07:59 2004
From: pwatson at redlinec.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:07:59 -0600
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
References: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net> <c302qi$3lj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4053daa0_1@themost.net>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c302qi$3lj$04$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Paul Watson wrote:
>
> > How can I get the escapes from a command line parameter interpreted?
> >
> > The user provides a string on the command line.  The string might
contain
> > traditional escapes such as \t, \n, etc.  It might also contain escaped
> > octal or hex such as \001 or \x09.
> >
> > The escapes are coming into sys.argv[] without shell interpretation.  Do
I
> > need to use the compile module to make this work?  Any suggestions?
> >
> > ===
> > $ cat ./try_arglen2.py
> > #! /usr/bin/env python
> > import sys, StringIO
> > print sys.argv[1]
> >
> > print sys.argv[1] % ()
> >
> > sf = StringIO.StringIO()
> > print >> sf, sys.argv[1],
> > c = sf.getvalue()
> > sf.close()
> > print "now" + c + "is" + c + "the"
> >
> > # This works because the interpreter is processing the escapes.
> >
> > sf = StringIO.StringIO("\001")
> > c = sf.getvalue()
> > sf.close()
> > print "now" + c + "is" + c + "the"
> >
> > ===
> > $ ./try_arglen2.py '\001'
> > \001
> > \001
> > now\001is\001the
> > now?is?the
>
> If I'm understanding you correctly:
>
> <args.py>
> import sys
> print sys.argv[1].decode("string_escape")
> </args.py>
>
> $ python args.py "winter\nof\012our\x0Adiscontent"
> winter
> of
> our
> discontent
>
> Peter

I did have not explained it clearly.  I want the user to specify a string
that I will put between words in the output.  The user specified string can
have escape sequences.  For example, the user wants to put a binary 1 (\001)
between each output word.

import sys
words = ['now', 'is', 'the', 'time']
print '\001'.join(words)        #this works
print sys.argv[1].join(words)   #this fails

$ ./putbetween.py '\001'
now?is?the?time
now\001is\001the\001time




From paul.kemp at standardbank.com  Tue Mar  9 03:52:24 2004
From: paul.kemp at standardbank.com (Paul)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 00:52:24 -0800
Subject: py2exe - COM Server problem
References: <bb8e48c9.0403080549.247efa4f@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.121.1078757477.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb8e48c9.0403090052.46e2bfdf@posting.google.com>

Hi Thomas

Unfortunately I'm stuck with using Python 2.2, and therefore pywin32
build 162, and so I can't use the latest py2exe.

The frustrating thing is, I've had this working before, so I know it
will work under these versions.

I've tried the 'interp' example, but py2exe just reports 'nothing to
do'

Any other ideas?

Paul

> I guess that recent changes in pywin32 have broken this (very old) code
> you mention.  You should upgrade to Python 2.3 (if you haven't already),
> a recent pywin32 build, and to py2exe 0.5.
> 
> This version of py2exe contains an example COM server in the
> samples\advanced directory - it builds an exe and dll server from the
> win32com.servers.interp com example code.
> 
> Basically, this 3-line setup script is all that you need, there are no
> changes needed to the com server code:
> 
> from distutils.core import setup
> import py2exe
> setup(com_server = ["win32com.servers.interp"])
> 
> You can most certainly make the dist folder much smaller by excluding
> the pywin package from the build:
> 
> python setup.py py2exe --excludes pywin
> 
> Thomas


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar  3 03:15:09 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:15:09 +0100
Subject: py2exe in Windowsxp
References: <38f75b16.0403022320.1f56ce00@posting.google.com>
	<brneiciy.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <znaygxde.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> vijay_srr at yahoo.com (Vijay) writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Is py2exe 0.5.0 supported in Windows XP? In the project homepage in
>> SourceForge.net, only Win95/95/2000 are listed.
>
> Sure.  I will correct that.

Impossible, unfortunately.  SF doesn't know about win XP.

Thomas




From http  Mon Mar 22 18:37:27 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 15:37:27 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> You might also have occasion to learn about Pyrex and ... well, I'm
> in the Trotskyite wing on this question.  It's not just that Python
> can work for large projects.  I sincerely regard it as an even
> *better* comparative choice on large projects; C++ and Java, the
> usual com- petition, show all sorts of blemishes when one scales the
> size of the project.  Python remains usable, even at the high end.

I keep hearing this, but I don't see any large (much less very large)
applications that have been done in Python; Zope is medium sized.

Suppose you wanted to write any of the following:

1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
4) Avionics for the space shuttle
5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
6) Tax processing software for the IRS
7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
8) Accounting software for a big bank
9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
10) ... well you get the idea.

Which, if any, would you write in Python?  By "write in Python" I mean
the central framework and most of the code is written in Python,
though you're allowed to use the C API as needed.  Using Python to
provide some functions around the edges (e.g. the operator UI for the
phone switch) doesn't count.  Note that these are all supposed to be
used in production and not just as technology demos, so speed matters
(nobody wants a compiler that's 10x slower than GCC.  GCC is slow
enough already).

I think I'd spend some time at least considering Python in each of the
above cases, but I'm not sure I could convincingly make it fly for any
of them.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 25 09:00:26 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:00:26 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<c3uk3u$57a$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3ulvf$ral$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <c3uolr$gds$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Yermat wrote:

> take care with that kind of comparisons...

I'll add a disclaimer next time :-)

> Especially look at the last two comparison ! the only difference is the
> construction of the list...
> 
> so what ? "Beautiful is better than ugly"
> Make your choice ;-)

I should have made explicit my "result" that timing doesn't matter much (I
think) in this case.

> timeit.py -s"import re" "f = re.compile('.{2}')" "f.findall('aabbccddee')"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 7.67 usec per loop

For a fair comparison, the 2 would have to be an argument rather than a
constant. You could then argue that re.compile() has to be timed, too.

> timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunks" "list(chunks('aabbccddee', 2))"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 7.3 usec per loop
> 
> timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunklist" "chunklist('aabbccddee', 2)"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 6.3 usec per loop

The difference between chunks() and chunklist() is that you do not need to
exaust the chunks() generator. Of course that advantage vanishes in my
simplistic benchmark...

> timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunksiter"
> "list(chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2))"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 11.8 usec per loop
> 
> timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunksiter" "[ x for x in
> chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2)]"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 15.2 usec per loop

These last two timings are useless. The following (and two nested loops
without continue in either loop or break in the inner loop) is the only
sane use case:

>>> [list(ch) for ch in chunks.chunksiter("aabbccdd", 2)]
[['a', 'a'], ['b', 'b'], ['c', 'c'], ['d', 'd']]
>>>

Looks reasonable. Now let's separate the above in two steps:

>>> lst = [ch for ch in chunks.chunksiter("aabbccdd", 2)]
>>> map(list, lst)
[['a'], ['a'], ['b'], ['b'], ['c'], ['c'], ['d'], ['d']]
>>>

Did you expect that? Errorprone indeed. Of course you could use tee() from
the itertools example page to make it more robust, but I would expect even
more overhead...

Peter




From wweston at att.net  Fri Mar  5 12:46:29 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:46:29 GMT
Subject: problem connecting to oracle database
In-Reply-To: <c29uv7$gv7$1@online.de>
References: <c29uv7$gv7$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <V132c.152130$hR.2833642@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>



markusjais at yahoo.de wrote:
> hello
> 
> I hava a small Perl and a small Python CGI Skript.
> 
> I have Python 2.3.3 and the newest cx_Oracle module.
> 
> this is the error in my httpd_error.log
> 
> RuntimeError: Unable to acquire Oracle environment handle
> 
> at the start of the skript I set
> os.environ["ORACLE_HOME"] = "/opt/oracle/OraHome1/"
> 
> this is the same as in the Perl skript and there it works.
> 
> 
> this is the code how I connect:
> try:
>     connection = cx_Oracle.connect(user, passwd, "host.of.db.server") 
>     cursor = connection.cursor()
> except cx_Oracle.Error, e:
>     print "Error %s" % e
>     sys.exit (1)
> 
> 
> 
> the host of the db server is correct and a test skript on another machine
> with another db worked, too.
> 
> any ideas what is wrong here ?
> 
> 
> markus
> 
> 
> 
> 
markus,
    Does it work if you set and export in linux
prior to running the script?
    Do you need the trailing "/" on the path?
wes



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  1 06:13:27 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:13:27 GMT
Subject: Type emulation issues with new style classes
References: <C0%%b.4538$qX5.249@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
	<m3hdxb6rwg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<6O40c.5969$qX5.1972@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <m3d67w7rc9.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Chris" <feb04.20.netman at spamgourmet.com> writes:

> I tried a couple variation of that, and __getattr__, when defined in a
> metaclass is never called when accessing an attribute on an instance of a
> class derived from that metaclass.
> 
> Here is some testing I did:
> 
> class Zmeta(type):
>     def __getattribute__(*args):
>         raise Exception('called __getattribute__ with %s' % str(args))
>     def __getattr__(*args):
>         raise Exception('called __getattr__ with %s' % str(args))
> 
> Z = Zmeta('Z', (), {'value': 42})
> z = Z()
> 
> >>> int(z)
> TypeError: int() argument must be a string or a number
> >>> z.__int__
> AttributeError: 'Z' object has no attribute '__int__'
> >>> Z.__int__
> Exception: called __getattribute__ with (<class '__main__.Z'>, '__int__')
> 
> It appears (and is confirmed in: Metaclass Programming in Python Pt. 2
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta2/?ca=dnt-434) that
> metaclass attributes are available to instances (classes) but not instances
> of instances.

Argh.  Yes, now I think about the implementation, this isn't that
surprising.  OTOH, one shouldn't have to know Objects/typeobject.c as
well as I do to avoid being surprised by Python...

I've added some more detailed comments to the bug report Michele
mentioned, if you're curious.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  SCSI is not magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why it
  is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and
  then.                                                  -- John Woods


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 11 23:26:31 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:26:31 -0600
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
In-Reply-To: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16465.15351.172247.472231@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jay> I use xemacs and syntax highlighting for my IDE, but I'm not a big
    Jay> fan of the default syntax highlighting colors.  For instance, in
    Jay> 'def fun():' both 'def' and 'fun' are the same color.  

What version of python-mode.el are you using?  I use the latest version from
CVS (4.51).  "def" is a purplish color (as are all keywords).  The function
name is a reddish color.  Strings are green.  Comments are blue.  None of
the colors are too saturated though so even though it sounds garish it's not
too hard on the eyes.  The version which comes with the Python distribution
(4.41) probably uses the same color scheme.  I don't think much has changed
in that regard recently.

Skip




From jmeile at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 15 09:56:08 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:56:08 +0100
Subject: Generating images on-the-fly
In-Reply-To: <c34555$m93$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
References: <c34555$m93$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <4055c3e4$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for code to generate images on-the-fly using whatever imaging
> toolkit du jour. 
> 
> This is to build a defense against blog comment auto-spamming. 
> 
> TIA. Cheers.
> 

You could use PythonMagick:
http://www.procoders.net/moinmoin/PythonMagick

or pil:
http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

Regards,
Josef



From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 29 21:07:38 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:07:38 +1200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <Ut1ac.64446$cx5.43515@fed1read04>
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>
	<du73c7r7tub.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<Ut1ac.64446$cx5.43515@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <4068D66A.7060800@sneakemail.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:
 > Prothon has announced that we are caving in and going to spaces instead of
 > tabs, even though both of the Prothon authors abhor spaces.

You don't have to choose between them if you don't
want to. Disallowing *mixed* tabs and spaces is sensible,
but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a
given file.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 04:36:31 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:36:31 -0800
Subject: wxPython information
In-Reply-To: <106kuq6kvppf31@corp.supernews.com>
References: <106kuq6kvppf31@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406A911F.3010107@mlug.missouri.edu>


> While I was working with wxPython I was beginning to think I was a 
> little dense and missing something very important.  Then I started 
> reading the thread about python documentation and in particular the 
> part about wxPython documentation.  That made me feel so much better.  
> Anyway to get to my point I am looking for a good source of tutorials 
> that go beyond those found on the wxPython site, website, book, or 
> otherwise. The thing that really drives me crazy is that the tutorials 
> don't do a very good job of explaining the components of a wxPython 
> application. Currently I am trying to create a simple two pane window 
> with each pane utilizing 50% of the window.  I did manage to find the 
> wxSashWindow information, but it really seems to be lacking.

Don't feel bad. The documentation really does need work. It helps to 
join the wxPython mailing list and ask questions there. Other than that 
the best reference they have is the program full of demos that comes 
with wxPython.



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 15:39:48 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:39:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simple Problem: Getting rid of {}
Message-ID: <20040312203948.70938.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I have done some string concatenation:

feature_vector={}
feature_element={}

#inside a loop

        if (v==0):
                feature_element=str(1)+"
"+str(index[i])+":"+str(vector[i])+" "
                print feature_element
        else:
                    
feature_element=str(index[i])+":"+str(vector[i])+" "

       
feature_vector=str(feature_element)+str(feature_vector)
        if (v==0):
                print feature_vector


when I print feature_vector I get my desired output
but with an extra {} in the end.

Output:

1 22389:0.0291806958474
1 22389:0.0291806958474 {}



I fail to understand why this is happening since
feature_element should also have {} in the end, if it
was the case with the variables I declared with like:
syntax{}

How to get rid of this extra {} from my string.

Thanks
Dont




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Tue Mar 16 17:34:53 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:34:53 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <slrnc5caf4.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.21.1079404100.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14e1fc9169eb2206e8136939f484a406@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:28:15 +0000 (GMT), Premshree Pillai
<premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> --- Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote: > In article
>>
><mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list at python.org>,
>> Premshree Pillai wrote:
>> > Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
>> > typing, I think. Static typing has to do with
>> explicit
>> > declaration (initialization) of variables (and not
>> of
>> > variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python too
>> is
>> 
>> Is that an official definition from somewhere? 
>> Cause I always thought
>> static typing was about variable types.
>> 
>> Joe
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>Hmm...I might have been a little wrong there. However,
>what I wanted to stress was that it's the explicit
>declaration of the variable that matters (that makes
>static typing what it is).

Static typing does not have to do with explicit declaration.
As you said earlier, Perl has an option to force explicit
declaration, and yet Perl is not statically typed.  Python function
arguments are explicitly declared, but are dynamically typed.

It seems you want the compiler to complain when a
previously unused/unnamed/undeclared variable is 
used on the left side of an equation.  (It already complains
for vars on the right side and in expressions.)

I think there is value in detecting such problems, but I 
think there is enough evidence in existing Python code
that there is little value to having it *in the language 
itself*.  As other posters have pointed out, there are
other ways of detecting these problems, such as with
pychecker and PyRex.

I'm bowing out of this discussion.  I hope I have been
somewhat helpful.  The strong/weak/static/dynamic
discussion has gone on many times before, and I don't
see it as being particularly relevant to explicit declaration.


I'm pretty sure you have the answer to your question.
Python does not force, or even support, variable declaration.
If you want that, you'll need to look to one of the other
tools mentioned.

Best wishes in your endeavors,
    O-O
        --Daniel 'dang' Griffith
p.s.
(Yes, I know Python supports variable/keyword arguments 
to functions, which don't require explicit declaration...)


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 06:08:44 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 03:08:44 -0800
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
	<m31xo1bmlv.fsf@hamster.pflaesterer.de>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403100308.1577f0c4@posting.google.com>

sigurd at 12move.de (Karl Pfl?sterer) wrote in message news:<m31xo1bmlv.fsf at hamster.pflaesterer.de>...
> An unnamed person wrote:
> 
> > I want to sort a list.
> > My problem is:
>  
> >>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
> >>>> a.sort()
> >>>> a
> > ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
> 
> 
> > But I am actually looking for an output:
> > ['A','a','D','F','f']
>  
> > Is there any module to sort a list this way?
> 
> You don't need a module.  The sorting method can take a custom sorting
> function.
> 
> >>> L = ['a','f','F','A','D']
> >>> L.sort(lambda u, v: cmp(u.lower(), v.lower()) or cmp(u, v))
> >>> L
>  ['A', 'a', 'D', 'F', 'f']
> >>> 
> 
> As 0 is the same as a boolean false value the comparing function will
> try the part after the `or' if two values were equal compared with
> `cmp(u.lower(), v.lower())' to ensure `A' comes before `a'.
> 
> 
> 
>    KP


Hi KP,
Thanks
This was what I was looking for.
Regards,
Ketul


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 19:12:45 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:12:45 -0800
Subject: proper use of braces in Python (was: Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes)
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <406A0CFD.2080600@mlug.missouri.edu>


>>Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
>>next line" wars.
>>    
>>
>
>    int main (void)
>    {
>        if (true)
>        {
>        }
>
>        return 0;
>    }
>
>There is no other way.
>  
>
No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!

int main ( void ) {
    if ( true ) {
        return 1;
    }
    return 0;
}

This is clearly better. Compact yet easy to read. I try formatting my 
Python code exactly like this and it always complains about my braces.. 
clearly wrong.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  2 21:02:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:02:06 -0600
Subject: image processing style (2D kernel) convolutions?
In-Reply-To: <2qieh1-gk2.ln1@jowls.lairds.org>
References: <2qieh1-gk2.ln1@jowls.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <20040303020206.GA13700@unpythonic.net>

Well, it seems that you could convolve each row of the input image with
each row of the kernel, with the rows offset from each other.  Then sum
the 3 convolved rows to get the output row

I know this isn't the right notation, and doesn't deal with r-1 or r+1
being out of range..
    for r in range(input_height):
        output[r] = (convolve(input[r-1], filter[0]) 
                  + convolve(input[r], filter[1])
                  + convolve(input[r+1], filter[2])

Jeff



From jamesl at appliedminds.com  Sun Mar 14 22:01:32 2004
From: jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 19:01:32 -0800
Subject: Problem with parsing XML
Message-ID: <a091da2f.0403141901.59675c43@posting.google.com>

So I have an XML document with &eacute; and other non-XML chars.
I'm wondering the best way to parse this using xml.dom.minidom.

I've tried using a translation document to transmate &eacute; to &#233;
But now the characters just disappear.
Any suggestions?

Thanks.


From DONTEMAILME at ntlworld.com  Tue Mar  9 12:21:11 2004
From: DONTEMAILME at ntlworld.com (Rich)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:21:11 +0000
Subject: Unicode (Japanese) fonts in Images
References: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>
	<mailman.181.1078850811.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94A7B1959BC78crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.205>

gabor <gabor at z10n.net> wrote in news:mailman.181.1078850811.19534.python-
list at python.org:

> On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 23:12, Rich wrote:
> 
>> kanji = u'\ufffe\ua295\uc07b
> 
> are you sure this you wrote this correctly?
>  tried to output the utf-8 encoded version of that string to a file and
> tried to open it in gedit,
> and gedit (he couldn't display it), but said that it is 9symbols
> long.... which i think is not correct....
> 
> i don't know japanese, but i have a textfile with 2 jpn symbols, which i
> think are correct. try these:
> 
> text = u'\u6708\u59eb'
> 
> do they work?
> gabor
> 

Bingo, so how did you do that?  All my japanese Kanji I get from web pages 
and I can cut and paste the text into photoshop and it work fine.  How's 
the best way for me to get these charaters into a form I can use like 
above?

I thought that saving them in notepad as unicode, then opening that in a 
hex editor and using the values was the way forward but obviously not :(

Thanks for all your help

Rich


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar  9 16:43:34 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:43:34 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <5sbs40l90vpumpp3u72a4259gp83j4mfih@4ax.com>

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:53:50 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

>In article <roy-F325DF.12255009032004 at reader2.panix.com>, Roy Smith wrote:
>> OK, I'll bite.  What's wrong with exceptions for breaking out of deeply 
>> nested loops?
>
>Philosophically, the termination condition of a loop isn't an
>exceptional circumstance.

Erm - I disagree.

Philosphically, the termination condition of a loop isn't an *error*.

Most loops repeat at least several times, often many times. They only
terminate once. Therefore, termination of the loop is exceptional.

>Practically, exceptions are overkill.  Using named break (or faking it
>with goto) is "static multi-level exit", while an exception is dynamic.
>It takes more overhead at runtime, and if you don't catch it right it
>can escape up the call stack. 

As a rule, having a program that runs a few milliseconds slower is
preferable to having a maintenance headache. The reason why gotos,
breaks and continues are considered bad style in any language is
because when used inappropriately they routinely do create maintenance
headaches, and because the temptation is to use them inappropriately.

In comparison with keeping track of state variables, exceptions
probably have lower overhead, and in particular what overhead they
have is tuned to occur when the exception is thrown - it is a one-off,
rather than being repeated every time the state variable gets checked.

As for uncaught exceptions, they are easy to detect, easy to track
down, and easy to debug.

>A more pragmatic argument is that, for C++,

<snip goto example>

>Is just easier to read, and takes less typing, than

<snip exception example>

Absolutely true, and one reason why there is almost always some
latitude for using break.

There is of course no programming feature ever imagined that would
never be useful and beneficial in any circumstance. That is not,
however, a justification for including every feature ever imagined.
There will always be some cases where some unavailable feature would
have made particular jobs a little, or even a lot, easier but that's
life.

The crucial question is whether the benefits from a feature outweigh
the costs. There will always be some cases where that is a difficult
and subjective question, and different people will always assess
different pros and cons as having different weights.

Are some of us being unreasonable about gotos and/or multilevel
breaks/continues? And if so, which side are those people on?

Quite possibly 'yes' and 'both'.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I have used gotos recently but only once in
ten years or so. I have no doubt that there are many simpler cases
where at some time I could have avoided a state variable or an
exception by using a goto, but following a standard convention has
some value in itself and these days the standard convention is to use
a state variable or an exception.

These are relatively unusual cases, though. Certainly they pop up from
time to time, but in the mean time you've probably written tens of
loops that didn't need these tricks.

Personally, my vote remains 'no' but with some reservations. But then
I'm just me.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 28 18:08:04 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:08:04 -0600
Subject: [Fwd: Re: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app]
In-Reply-To: <40660D22.6010200@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <40660D22.6010200@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <16487.23252.815170.476932@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michael> The main thing I've thought of doing is creating an XML-RPC
    Michael> based solution for admin'ing boxes. 

Unless you had an SSL (read: "secure") solution for doing XML-RPC this would
probably be a bad idea.  From a standard API standpoint I agree it would
open up the user interface possibilities quite nicely.

Skip




From myang at clarku.edu  Tue Mar 30 16:54:18 2004
From: myang at clarku.edu (myang)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:54:18 -0500
Subject: How to make this speed up
Message-ID: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMKEPOCEAA.myang@clarku.edu>

Hi,

I have thousands of points in 3D space, and I want to calcuate the distance
between each other of them. I do the calculation with the following code.

def distance(a,b):
    sum = 0
    for i in range(len(a)):
        sum += (a[i]-b[i])**2
    return sqrt(sum)

for i in range(len(plist)):
    for j in range(i+1,len(plist)):
        d = distance(plist[i],plist[j])

But this is damn slow. Do you have any suggestion to speed it up? If I write
the distance function in C extension, how faster will it be? (For the time
being, I don't know how to write C extension yet :(

Regards,
Yang




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar 13 10:05:36 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:05:36 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <221d8dbe.0403130310.4f7bba30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040313150536.10060.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- srijit at yahoo.com wrote: > Hello,
> Try Traits
> (http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits).
> 
> Regards,
> Srijit

Who says Python is not strongly typed? Python *is*
strongly typed. The problem I am facing is that Python
is also dynamically typed, and I want static typing.

-Premshree

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 05:06:31 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:06:31 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1079404100.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.21.1079404100.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4056cbdd$0$304$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
>  --- Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote: > In article
> 
> <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list at python.org>,
> 
>>Premshree Pillai wrote:
>>
>>>Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
>>>typing, I think. Static typing has to do with
>>>explicit
>>>declaration (initialization) of variables (and not
>>>of
>>>variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python too
>>>is

>>Is that an official definition from somewhere? 
>>Cause I always thought
>>static typing was about variable types.
>>
> 
> Hmm...I might have been a little wrong there. However,
> what I wanted to stress was that it's the explicit
> declaration of the variable that matters (that makes
> static typing what it is).
> 
Try OCaml (or any ML language) or Haskell and say it again !-)
Please replace 'static' with 'compile-time' and 'typing' with 
'type-checking' and you'll understand that static typing and explicit 
variables declaration are two different (albeit somewhat related for 
most mainstream languages) concepts.


(Now, what you ask for is explicit variables declaration. This does not 
exist in Python, except for the slots thing in new-style classes.)

Bruno



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Mar  1 21:28:21 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:28:21 GMT
Subject: How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of Ruby
	compared to Python?
References: <bf23f78f.0402241443.678bf6c8@posting.google.com>
	<c1h1sb$1it26i$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<103qa53tajuhfdb@corp.supernews.com>
	<c20kfr$1o38qb$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns94A02353079CBJanC@213.119.4.35>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> schreef:

> I'm just going by what I see in the language. Beneath the
> syntax, I see a lot that's very Smalltalk-like in Ruby.
> I don't see anything that's fundamentally Perl-like,
> on the other hand.

>From what I remember from the Ruby-talk at FOSDEM, Ruby was influenced by 
several languages, including Smalltalk (OO features), Perl ("do what I 
mean") and Python.

So the Perl influence has a lot to do with syntax: there are several ways 
to express te same (e.g. blocks of code).

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Mar  4 05:17:55 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:17:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Python Event in India ..
In-Reply-To: <5cc5bb23.0403030507.120598f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040304101755.134.qmail@web8303.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Somesh Bartakkay <s4somesh at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >
Am basically from India - Pune.
> here is very less (say NO) Python AwareNess ..
> so i wanna increase it..
> am trying in my own way but for making it in VERY
> proffesional manner
> and on very HIGH level ...its necessary to arrange
> Python Event here.
> 
> shall anyone guide me how it is possible ?
> Python Even in INDIA will surely PAY gr8 brains to
> Python Community
> ...
> 
> 
> somesh
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

I know for fact that there's no PyUG anywhere in
India. I doubt, it would be possible to have an
"event" on Python at Pune.

If you want to evangelize the use of Python, you
should  start off by introducing CS folks to the
language, etc.

If you need a set of introductory slides, I have 'em
at
http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python-seminar-210204/slides/pySlide1.jpg.htm
:-)

-Premshree Pillai
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Mar 15 20:59:28 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:59:28 -0300
Subject: Changes to PEP 327: Decimal data type
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383740@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People:

I'll post a reviewed version of the PEP.

The only differences with the previous one will be the treatmen to float in
both explicit and implicit construction:

------------

In Explicit construction:

You can not call Decimal with a float. Instead you must use a method:
Decimal.fromFloat(). The syntax:

    Decimal.fromFloat(floatNumber, positions)
    
where floatNumber is the float number origin of the construction and
positions is the positions after the decimal point where you apply a
round-half-up
rounding. In this way you can do, for example:

    Decimal.fromFloat(1.1, 2): The same that doing Decimal('1.1').
    Decimal.fromFloat(1.1, 16): The same that doing
Decimal('1.1000000000000001').
    Decimal.fromFloat(1.1): The same that doing
Decimal('110000000000000008881784197001252...e-51').


In Implicit construction:

Raise TypeError. You can not mix Decimal and float.

------------

If you're ok, I'll post this.

Thank you!

.	Facundo



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  9 12:48:53 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:48:53 -0600
Subject: Reg invoking winrrunner
References: <mailman.176.1078843686.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gbadnW2RaIcentPdRVn-gg@comcast.com>

Take a look at os.system() and win32process.CreateProcess.

Something like (not tested):

import os
pathtowinrunner=r"C:\Program Files\winrunner\winrunner.exe"
os.system(pathtowinrunner)

or if you want more control and/or a Window:

import win32process
STARTUPINFO=win32process.STARTUPINFO()
STARTUPINFO.dwX=0
STARTUPINFO.dwY=0
STARTUPINFO.dwXSize=800
STARTUPINFO.dwYSize=600
commandLine=r"C:\Program Files\winrunner\winrunner.exe"
processAttributes=None
threadAttributes=None
bInheritHandles=0
dwCreationFlags=0
newEnvironment=None   # Or new environment info if needed
currentDirectory=r"C:\Program Files\winrunner"

#
# Start the program
#
win32process.CreateProcess(execute_target,
                           commandLine,
                           processAttributes,
                           threadAttributes,
                           bInheritHandles,
                           dwCreationFlags,
                           newEnvironment,
                           currentDirectory,
                           STARTUPINFO)


-Larry


"Meenakshi Sundaram" <tms at srasys.co.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.176.1078843686.19534.python-list at python.org...
hi,
i want to call winrunner from python can any one help me

regards,
TMS




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 13 11:09:20 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 11:09:20 -0500
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
References: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <c2vbng$du$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net>,
Kenneth McDonald  <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>Now that I'm back to Python and all the new (to me) cool features,
>I find I'm using properties a lot, i.e. I'm defining:
>
>	foo = property(fset=..., fget=...)
>
>for a number of properties, in many of my classes. I'm not using
>them for anything performance critical yet, but could see myself
>doing so in the future. Can anyone comment on the performance
>costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?

That's sort-of not the point.  Yes, plain attribute lookups are going to
be faster because they don't involve a function call.  OTOH, new-style
classes already pay a penalty for properties because any simple
attribute lookup on an instance requires checking the whole MRO to make
sure there isn't a property.  Finally, the proper comparison is against
getter/setter methods, which properties encapsulate nicely.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 11:45:53 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:45:53 -0500
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0403310652.5acb85a3@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
	<ZrGdnR9BRZRIfvTdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<eeydnYRUpqQM1_fdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<9e5ea2c4.0403310652.5acb85a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <de6dnW-CZuRcaPfdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Olaf Meding wrote:
> Turns out the that the function with the line of code PyChecker
> complained about was called during import.  Thanks much for your help.

No problem.  And thanks for the closure!  Too often we never hear
back from someone, whether positively or negatively. :-)

-Peter


From ods at strana.ru  Thu Mar 11 08:33:26 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:33:26 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code objects in restricted execution
 mode
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403111622580.21016-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>


When I execute python code from C++ application with
PyEval_EvalCode and this code contains imports of other modules
then I got the error "RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code objects
in restricted execution mode".  How can I switch into
noraml (unrestricted) mode?

Python 2.2.2, Linux. Actual code looks like the following:

tstate = Py_NewInterpreter();
main_module = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
main_dict = PyModule_GetDict(main_module);
obj_res = PyEval_EvalCode(calc_code, main_dict, main_dict);

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From gumuz at looze.net  Mon Mar 29 03:57:44 2004
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:57:44 +0200
Subject: finding used modules
Message-ID: <4067e4fa$0$270$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

Hi,

I'm developing an application with Delphi+Python. Distributing such an
application requires me to include all the used modules + python23.dll.

At the moment I'm using 'trial-and-error' on a pc without python on it to
see which modules it is missing.

What I'm asking is: Is there any tool/module which can help me in this
process?

Cheers,
Guyon




From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Wed Mar  3 01:02:03 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:02:03 +0100
Subject: locale.getlocale() strange behaviour
References: <pan.2004.03.02.23.07.35.88163@ifrance.com>
	<mailman.12.1078279793.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.03.06.02.03.803387@ifrance.com>

Le Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:09:26 -0600, Jeff Epler a ?crit?:
> 
> In Python2.2 on my system, setlocale() is called by rl_initialize() when
> I run the interactive interpreter.
> $ python -c 'import locale; import readline; print locale.getlocale()'
> ['en_US', 'utf']
> this may explain the behavior you noticed.

thanks a lot



From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 24 00:15:11 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:15:11 -0500
Subject: using CGI to open a progress window for file upload [pxlpluker]
Message-ID: <4061195F.1050202@cfl.rr.com>

using CGI to open a progress window for file upload

what do i need to send to the browser through cgi to open a new window 
(similar to java popup) to show upload progress



thanks
Fred.





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Mar 10 17:00:33 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 17:00:33 -0500
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>
	<wzn06o50jc.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.219.1078923663.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <un06ocqgu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> > I suppose your python script is allowed to write some file(s),
> > otherwise you
> > wouldn't be able to implement a database. You could import a special
> > _sqlite.py module that has _sqlite.pyd encoded in a big string, and on
> > the first call writes it out to _sqlite.pyd and wouldn't be called on
> > subsequent times.
> 
> OMG :-o

Well, there's even an quasi-proof-of-concept in the standard library,
albeit not in terms of using the code as a module.  But an embedded
binary is how distutils includes the binary portion of the win32
installer for the bdist_wininst target. :-)

See .../lib/distutils/commands/bdist_wininst.py

-- David


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 17:06:47 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:06:47 -0800
Subject: Raw write/read file descriptor
References: <050320041320106615%anon@anon.net>
Message-ID: <donn-E1246A.14064705032004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <050320041320106615%anon at anon.net>, anon <anon at anon.net> 
wrote:

> Is there an interface for read/writing raw bytes to/from a file?

Yes.  In the os (a.k.a. posix) module, open, read and write.
File objects that are really files implement fileno() to
return the file descriptor.

The difference is not so much that the bytes are raw, it's
that there is no intermediate buffer (in process memory space.)
That's often useful with pipes and sockets, but not often with
disk files.

If what you really want is to avoid modifications to the data
stream, but you do want the efficiency and functionality of the
file object's buffered I/O, then you might do better with the
"rb" and "wb" parameters to open.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Mar  6 09:07:28 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:07:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mysql-python installation problems....
References: <e84f5d12.0403060521.17371bfc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2clv0$1jf$5@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

google account <mynews44 at yahoo.com> pisze:

> I have done all that I know how....
> 
> I am using fedora core1,  I believe.  I have updated the MySQL version
> to 4.0.17-0.
> 
> I am trying this:
> 
> rpm -i MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm 
> warning: MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY,
> key ID 930b8ab6
> error: Failed dependencies:
>         libmysqlclient_r.so.10 is needed by MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1

It is client library from MySQL 3.23. I had no success in compiling
MySQLdb from sources to have MySQL 4 support either.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From sc0rp at hot.pl  Wed Mar 24 00:42:15 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:42:15 +0100
Subject: how to detect connection closed by server?
References: <004401c41156$18c17dd0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <40611FB7.19737291@hot.pl>


Joe Wong wrote:
> Client:
> - create socket
> - connect to port XYZ at server
> - send some data to server
> - close the socket
> 
> The problem I found is that, after the server perform the listen()
> call, the client program can sucessfully perform connect(), send() and
> close() on the socket

AFAIR with T/TCP it's entriely possible to open connection, send small
payload and close connection in one single IP packet.

> even the server process does not perform the
> accept() and recv() call. Is this a general behaviour of the socket or
> I am not writing my program properly?

Close only sending part of the socket and then block on read.  It will
either:
- report EOF if server accepted and then closed connection without
sending any data,
- return some data if server sent it,
- report some kind of error otherwise.

Best regards,
Jacek.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 16 02:52:06 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:52:06 +0100
Subject: 2.3.3 on Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1078323031.727.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.14.1078323031.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c36bn8$8to$07$1@news.t-online.com>

J.D. Bronson wrote:
> I am having trouble compiling python (from src) on Solaris 10 beta and 
> was wondering if someone can help me?
[...]
> Any ideas?

Yes, but we need your help to make the necessary corrections.

It is quite unclear what precisely the compiler error message is
complaining about, as the particular line (complexobject.c:469)
is expanded through multiple levels of macros.

Please do the following to narrow the source of the problem:

1. Compile the particular file with --save-temps:

gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes 
-I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Objects/complexobject.o 
Objects/complexobject.c --save-temps

2. Remove all # (line) directives from complexobject.i (alternatively,
use -P for preprocessing - I couldn't make it work here, though)

grep -v "^#" complexobject.i >complexobject.ii
mv complexobject.ii complexobject.i

3. Compile the file again:

gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O3 -Wall complexobject.i

4. Read the line containing the error. If it consists of multiple
statements, break those into multiple lines, one per statement,
and compile again.

5. If it then is not apparent what the problem is, post the
fragment of the preprocessor output, along with the (updated)
error message.

Regards,
Martin



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Mon Mar 15 14:40:39 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:40:39 GMT
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<uteb50lm5t0l2mf2f3lklmr3ruusj3mfjv@4ax.com>
	<j4qb505fhlukq14p92ae961bfuhsurfo08@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5i0c50d2jam1dv3kg1tvfvm9tlntr6klo3@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:38:20 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:43:20 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>With a loop iteration variable declared explicitly in the curent scope
>>and prior to the loop, it survives the loop.  Otherwise it is treated
>>as a placeholder within the loop, and goes out of scope at its
>>conclusion.
>
>This is a little too tricky for my taste.  

Mine too, really.  But it was off the cuff, and illustrative.  And as
I said, the current behavior hasn't caused me any actual problem.
There are probably reasons why one can expect ot get away with being
blissfully ignorant here. 

I couldn't/wouldn't do anything with "t", being unaware that it was
there.  And if I rebind "t" to something else, its the same as if I
was orignally binding it. No harm, no foul. 

Essentailly what happened in the session that brought this up for me
was that I goofed, used "t" without binding it to anything (well
actually I had without realizing) and got a result that I couldn't
make sense of, rather than the error message which I deserved (or
would otherwise have deserved).

I haven't convinced myself it is possible to write sensible code *and*
get caught here, even if unaware of the scoping issue.  Though I
haven't convinced myself it isn't, either.
  

>Often we need to 'break'
>from a loop, and subsequently use the value of 't'.  If we forget to
>"declare" 't' outside the loop, then we will have a situation where
>you get a run-time error if the loop ends without a break.
>
>What is the benefit of keeping 't' out of the surrounding local
>scope?"  This whole thread seems pointless unless there is a
>substantial benefit to changing the current behavior.
>
>-- Dave



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 04:30:03 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:30:03 -0000
Subject: Python / COM / Word
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347BE@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

DS> I'm having a little trouble trying to automate Word 
DS> (2002).  I'm hoping to be able to create and process 
DS> documents relatively independently of any existing open 
DS> Word documents.
[...]
DS> Ideally I'd like to have independent 'Word instances', so I 
DS> can hack around to my heart's content without jeopardising 
DS> documents opened and created by some hapless user (which 
DS> would also be me).

I think this is what you want: (using Word2000, but I doubt it matters)

<interpreter dump>

ActivePython 2.2.3 Build 227 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.3 (#42, Nov 13 2003, 09:57:55) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import win32com.client
>>> w1 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
>>> w1.Visible = True
>>> # (Word Appears; New Document; scribbles a bit...)
... w2 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
>>> w2.Visible
0
>>> w2.Visible = True
>>> # (second Word appears; another New doc. First one still untouched)
...
>>>

</interpreter dump>

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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From http  Mon Mar 22 07:40:48 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 04:40:48 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <mailman.228.1079953486.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xn069t5pr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Eyal Lotem <gnupeaker at yahoo.com> writes:
> You are not supposed to be looking for it, IMHO.
> Generators follow the Sequence protocol and are to be
> treated as sequences.  Thus, you should simply make it
> clear in the
> function-name/conventions/interface-documentation that
> the function returns a sequence.  Whether that
> sequence is implemented via a generator or not is an
> implementation detail.

But that's bogus.  Python is dynamically typed which means that a
normal function can return whatever it wants, sequence or
non-sequence.  A generator function can't return anything, it can only
yield.


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 22:22:26 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:22:26 -0800
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>

Nicola Mingotti wrote:

> I obtained this result :
> ------
> >>> '1' > 1
> True
> ------
> with python2.2.3 and 2.3.3 .
> (Yes , in python 2.2 i get 1 instead of True)

Yes, with the exception of complex numbers, doing comparisons between
objects of different types is valid.  The ordering is guaranteed to be
consistent on a particular implementation (e.g., here strings are
considered greater than ints). but you're not guaranteed the behavior
will be the same from implementation to implementation (i.e., it's
perfectly valid for another implementation to consider ints less than
strings).

> but
> ------
> >>> '1' + 1
> TypeError
> -------

That's right, adding strings and integers is a type error because it
doesn't make any sense in Python.  Python is strongly typed, so it's
unclear what this operation would mean.  Do you mean int('1') + 1 or '1'
+ str(1)?

> and
> -----------------------------
> >>>'1'.__gt__.__doc__
> 'x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y'
> -----------------------------

I don't understand what bearing this snippet has on the previous two.

> so i'm a little puzzled :)
> 
> Is this a bug or is there a very good reason
> to this strange behaviour ?

In a strongly, dynamically typed language like Python, it's helpful to
have relational operators usually work even between objects of different
types, even if the result is not immediately useful, because you often
don't know the type of an object you have and so can't guarantee that
you'll always be comparing apples with apples.

There are other approaches, such as restricting the standard relational
operators to only work with objects of the same type and raise
TypeErrors otherwise, and introduce a new set of relational operators
which are forgiving with respect to incompatible objects of different
types (this is something I did with a project of mine, where `eq'
requires type compatibility (and raises if it is not satisfied) but
`seq' ("safe equality") simply returns false instead of raising an error
with incompatible types.  However, this is not the approach that Python
has historically used.

Additionally, since types determine the behavior of operations in a
strongly-typed language like Python, not operations, it's useful for
operations that have multiple meanings (+ can mean arithmetic addition
but also string concatenation) -- possible in a strongly-typed language
-- to reject ambiguous arguments rather than trying to guess what it is
you mean.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Does the true light / Of love come in flashes
    -- Sandra St. Victor


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 06:20:19 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:20:19 +0100
Subject: py2exe and activex controls
References: <c3s4ia$29u0js$1@ID-202999.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ad25cgwc.fsf@python.net>

Nico Alberti <n8 at toglimi.langhirano.it> writes:

> First of all sorry should this be a lame question, I tried to look at
> a possible solution in google, but I was not successful.
>
> I am trying to create an .exe of the ActiveXWrapper_Acrobat.py from
> the wxPython demo programs. While it runs smoothly in Pythonwin or
> from the command line, the executable file I obtain from py2exe does
> not work and exits with these error messages:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "acrobat.py", line 123, in ?
>    File "acrobat.py", line 119, in __init__
>    File "acrobat.py", line 41, in __init__
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'Pdf'
> 14:53:44: Debug: e:\Projects\wx2.4\src\msw\app.cpp(439):
> 'UnregisterClass(canvas
> )' failed with error 0x00000584 (class has still open windows*.).
> 14:53:44: Debug: e:\Projects\wx2.4\src\msw\app.cpp(446):
> 'UnregisterClass(no red
> raw canvas)' failed with error 0x00000584 (class has still open windows*.)
>
>
> Does py2exe need some special tweaking for dealing with wxWindows
> and/or ActiveX calls? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It could be that you need to include makepy generated typelibs.

You might also ask on the wxPython list, it may be a problem specific
to that.

Thomas




From nelson at monkey.org  Mon Mar  1 11:04:07 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:04:07 GMT
Subject: Image width, height.
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpafzcs366g.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> writes:
> Is there a Py module available using which I can find
> the width and height of any image format?

I'm not aware of one short of loading the whole image or shelling out
to another tool.

There's a nifty Perl module though:
  http://www.blackperl.com/Image::Size/
The nice thing about it is it doesn't have to load the whole image in
most cases. The actual size determining code is about 500 lines of
fairly simple Perl to handle about 10 image formats. It might not be
too bad to port it. It's under the Perl Artistic License.


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Mar  8 23:51:59 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:51:59 +1100
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <20040309043746.GC32559@frobozz>
References: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.46.1078541818.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2d741$m3t$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.80.1078616454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2jgag$68n$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<20040309043746.GC32559@frobozz>
Message-ID: <20040309045159.GD32559@frobozz>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 03:37:46PM +1100, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 08:11:16PM -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > >That, and I suspect that reading strings in chunks, rather than 1 byte at a
> > >time, would be much faster also.
> > 
> > Yes and no.  string.find(character) is fast.
> > 
> > seq = [read_chars.find(i) for i in break_characters]
> > min(filter(lambda inp:inp>-1, seq)+[-1])
> > 
> > May not be quite so fast for large numbers of break characters.
> 
> For finding any one of multiple characters, I expect the re module would
> work well, with the bonus that it could easily extend to coping with more
> complex patterns.

Or even just iterating the simple way -- assuming the generator's input is
chunks for strings, rather than single characters:

def split(chunks, ends=('.', '?', '!')):
    current_piece = ''
    for chunk in chunks:
        for char in chunk:
            current_piece += char
            if char in ends:
                yield current_piece
                current_piece = ''

(I know I'm concatenating strings the slow way again; it's just for clarity)

This has the disadvantage of not pushing any work into C code, but at least
it doesn't make any function calls either.

I still think the re module would be a better approach, of course, due to
being in C *and* not needing many function calls.

-Andrew.




From jamesl at appliedminds.com  Thu Mar 25 14:06:17 2004
From: jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 11:06:17 -0800
Subject: Problems with py2exe 0.50 and win98se and win2k
References: <a091da2f.0403241125.62360fc6@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.392.1080214274.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a091da2f.0403251106.66e1c6f2@posting.google.com>

> 
> Can it be that py2exe collects some system dlls in the dist dir?

The dlls it collects are:
python23.dll (needed)
qt-mt230nc.dll (needed - i use pyqt)
libsip.dll (also for pyqt)

Also it collects:
ddraw.dll
glu32.dll
opengl32.dll

Not sure why it collects those last 3.
Could that be the problem?


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Mar 27 11:28:05 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:28:05 -0800
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
In-Reply-To: <c437vl$e3b$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<brg8c.18665$A_2.958214@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<f046efac.0403250505.302c828b@posting.google.com>
	<c437vl$e3b$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4065b316$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> ...i heard use of lambda function is not good !. So why it is not good,...
> There is nothing explicitly wrong with using lambda.  However, unless 
> the lambda you are using is easy to understand, ....
> def cmp_1(x,y):
>     return cmp(x[1], y[1])

But, of course, the reason to avoid lambda is that you avoid a place to
make your code clearer.  A much better choice in this case is:

     def compare_cities(name_city1, name_city2):
         return cmp(name_city1[1], name_city2[1])

     name_city_sort(compare_cities)

Of course I believe a coming feature will eventually do what you want in
a completely different way:

     def getcity(name_city):
         return name_city[1]

     name_city_list.sort(key=getcity)

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Sun Mar 14 12:02:42 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:02:42 +0200
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OA199_1079283751_ESRIMAIL_1 wa
	s generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124AB0@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The attachment was quarantined from the message and replaced with a text
file informing the recipient of the action taken.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
jceasar at tmp.org <jceasar at tmp.org>

Sent:
-5442688,29624802

Subject:
Re: Msg reply

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: Text.zip
File: Text.zip
Infected? Yes
Repaired? No
Blocked? No
Deleted? No
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From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  2 21:08:27 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:08:27 -0800
Subject: network servers
In-Reply-To: <930ba99a.0403020250.66d3536e@posting.google.com>
References: <930ba99a.0403020250.66d3536e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c23es1$65f$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Sridhar R wrote:

> We're planning to write a server for handling atleast 1000 and atmost
> 4000 clients.  The connection is basically (TCP)
> connect-send-disconnect type.  So no client will open up its
> connection forever, except for the small time duration of sending the
> message.  This is something like online programming contest, where
> clients will submit their programs for evaluation and server will
> return the results (after sometime). I though of writing the server
> part in C and use Python for client.
> 
> Is it possible to use python for that high performance serving?  Note:
> There is only one physical machine.


To expand on Cameron's reply stating "yes, do it", I'll advise you of 
asyncore, most notably its use of the select module.

  - Josiah


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Mar 24 08:33:02 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:33:02 -0600
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	(ketulp_baroda@yahoo.com's
	message of "24 Mar 2004 05:43:45 -0800")
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m24qseqsj5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "ketulp" == ketulp baroda <ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> writes:

    ketulp> Hi, all I want to sort the list,the form of my list is

    ketulp>   name_city_list=[['jack','new
    ketulp> york'],['mac','london'],['alice','paris']]

    ketulp> all inner list has same format i.e first is name and
    ketulp> second is city.  now I want to sort it by the second
    ketulp> element of the inner list(by city name).

    ketulp> i.e after sorting my list should be like this

The usual way is to simply reverse the tuple, sort, and then reverse
back

  tmp = [ (city, name) for name, city in name_city_list]
  tmp.sort()
  name_city_list = [ (name, city) for city, name in tmp]

This is usually faster than writing a custom comparison func for sort.

JDH



From wsr2 at swbell.net  Tue Mar  9 18:22:18 2004
From: wsr2 at swbell.net (Bill Rubenstein)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:22:18 GMT
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>
	<9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<104se8bhc5rm477@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ab80df392615239989712@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>

In article <104se8bhc5rm477 at corp.supernews.com>, claird at lairds.com says...
> In article <9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA at comcast.com>,
> Larry Bates <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:
> >Get PIL (Python Imaging Library) if you don't already have it
> >
> >http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm/
> >
> >import Image
> >pathtogif=r'C:\xxx.gif'   # Replace with your path
> >im=Image.open(pathtogif)
> >x,y=im.size
> >im.close()
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> It doesn't require all of PIL, though, for those who
> have a reason *not* to rely on it; it just takes a couple
> of byte-twiddles.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/758 > can
> easily be translated into pure Python.
> 

Another source: http://www.onicos.com/staff/iz/formats/gif.html and a little 
messing with the struct module should get you there.

Bill



From wsr2 at swbell.net  Sat Mar 13 09:19:43 2004
From: wsr2 at swbell.net (Bill Rubenstein)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:19:43 GMT
Subject: Simple file line reading
References: <40520BD5.9090006@ecn.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <MPG.1abcd4cf30e14811989713@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>

In article <40520BD5.9090006 at ecn.purdue.edu>, ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu says...
> Hello everyone,
>    I'm relatively new to Python and am trying to write some scripts. 
> I've written a program (with the help of a friend) to search a text file 
> line by line for a certain section of information and then process some 
> of that information. This was on machines with Python 2.2.1 and 2.3.2.
>    When I try the same program on another machine using Python 2.1.2 and 
> another with Python 1.5.2, the script does not work. I've isolated the 
> part of the code giving me problems below. The code below should just 
> print out a number for every line. The actual code has some other 
> commands to run at each line of the code. I just want to read each line 
> of the file, run some commands on the contents of that line, and stop 
> when the end of the file is reached.
> 
> 
> import string
> it = 0
> for line in open("OUTCAR"):
>    it+=1
>    print it
> 
> The error message is:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "testr.py", line 3, in ?
>      for line in open("OUTCAR"):
> TypeError: loop over non-sequence
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
 The ability to iterate on a file object (returned by open()) I think is new at 
2.3.

Bill




From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Mar  2 13:42:04 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:42:04 -0800
Subject: Escape problem
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E4B@opus.amorhq.net>

Thomas Guettler wrote (sorry, Thomas, for the duplicate--forgot to Reply
All):
> Am Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:57:19 -0800 schrieb ketulp_barod:
> 
> > Hi
> > I am developing a web application.
> > I have a string 'foo"bar"' say in variable s.
> > When I print s on the python shell it prints correctly 'foo"bar"'
> > whereas when I try to display s on the form it just prints 
> 'foo'. What
> > should I do to print complete string 'foo"bar"' on the form
> 
> If you want to use the value in an attribute,
> you need to quote it:
>  
>  cgi.escape(s, 1)

Also, take a look at xml.sax.saxutils.quoteattr:

>>> import cgi

>>> cgi.escape('foo"bar"', 1)
'foo&quot;bar&quot;'

>>> from xml.sax.saxutils import quoteattr
>>> quoteattr('foo"bar"')
'\'foo"bar"\''

Notice that quoteattr includes the enveloping quotes for you. If you
were to interpolate the result of quoteattr into an HTML string, you
would write:

>>> '<div class=%s></div>' % quoteattr('foo"bar"')
'<div class=\'foo"bar"\'></div>'


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From nospam-deets at web.de  Mon Mar  1 10:29:09 2004
From: nospam-deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:29:09 +0100
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c1vl5n$1nuv0c$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Use (x)emacs and type 

M-x comment-region

Type

C-u M-x comment-region

to uncomment. Of course you can bind that to keys. C-c-< and C-c-> will
dedent/indent the current selection. Very useful.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From theller at python.net  Tue Mar 23 07:22:06 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:22:06 +0100
Subject: Problem using py2exe
References: <c3n3g1$ba$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>
	<mailman.237.1079973538.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3p5kd$6hv$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <n067hhxt.fsf@python.net>

"Sarah Mount" <s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk> writes:

> "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.237.1079973538.742.python-list at python.org...
>
>> IIRC, pygame imports some of its modules from C code, and py2exe cannot
>> track these.  You should try to include some (or all) of the pygame
>> modules explicitely with the --includes command line option.  Or you
>> simply include the whole pygame package with '--packages pygame'.
>
> Thanks Thomas, but sadly --packages didn't make any difference :-(
>
> Installing pyObjc seems impossible on Windows as ffi support is missing
> (doesn't wok with ctypes either) and py2exe isn't available for Linux!

Now you've lost me.  What has pyObjc and ctypes to do with pygame?

Confused,

Thomas




From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 12:07:05 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 09:07:05 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<0omac.74900$cx5.32735@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BD467AF47A5JanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0403310907.e08fcbd@posting.google.com>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote in message news:<Xns94BD467AF47A5JanC at 213.119.4.35>...
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> schreef:
> 
> > I really really try to remember to quote from below. If you go through my
> > posts you will see that I remember most of the time. The last few days I
> > have been reponding to four or five mailing lists after months of only
> > coding and my fingers are worn out.
> 

then set your newsreader to reply afterwards instead of before, and if
it does not allow this, then switch to one that does, there are lots
of good free newsreaders that don't default to top posting ( yuk! ) or
that let you tell it to reply fromt he bottom.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 16 08:06:51 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:06:51 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <105dv1krd78ve77@news.supernews.com>

"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8 at 4ax.com...
> On 15 Mar 2004 16:32:25 -0800, axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote:
>
> >is there a rationale for the following behavior:
> >
> >  >>> a = (1,2)
> >  >>> b = (1,2)
> >  >>> a is b
> >  False
> >  >>> a = "12"
> >  >>> b = "12"
> >  >>> a is b
> >  True
>
> Here's another one:
> >>> x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
> >>> y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
> >>> x is y
> True
> >>> x = 'a b'
> >>> y = 'a b'
> >>> x is y
> False
> >>> x == y
> True
> >>>
>
> It has to do with how Python decides which strings to "internalize"
> and make shared objects in order to save space.  This is only a
> problem with immutable objects.  Others cannot be shared like this.
>
> My suggestion is to *never* use 'is' with these objects unless you
> really need the fact that it is faster than '==' and you test it
> thoroughly for the kind of objects you will be comparing.

I'd go a slightly different direction on this: "is" is for physical
identity, "==" is for semantic equivalence. Never mix the two.
You cannot guarantee physical identity across different releases
of CPython, let alone between CPython and Jython (Python on the
Java VM), IronPython (the experimental Python on the .Net CLR)
or PyPy (the even more experimental attempt to rewrite Python in
Python.) And I'm sure I've left out a couple of other environments.

Using "is" is appropriate in only two circumstances:

1) when you're checking if an object you created is bound to
an identifer that's under your control,

and

2) when you're checking one of the few objects that are guaranteed
by the Python specs to be singletons: None, True and False are the
standard suspects in this case.

John Roth


>
> -- Dave
>




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Fri Mar 12 05:09:04 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:09:04 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
Message-ID: <20040312100904.38561.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

How do I force static typing in Python?

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From slimick at venango.upb.pitt.edu  Thu Mar 18 21:29:00 2004
From: slimick at venango.upb.pitt.edu (John Slimick)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:29:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc5knh4.rft.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>

Well, thanks to some email and a fair amount of
time with Mr Google, I found that I needed to
update the Setup file. 

(Platform: RH 8.0)

Prior to this I installed ActiveTCL8.4 .

So I made what I thought were the appropriate
changes to the "tkinter" section of Setup, I went up
a level (to /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2),
did a "make" and this is what I got:

   file libtk8.4.so does not exist

Well, when I do a locate, I find libtk8.4.so
in

   /usr/local/ActionTcl/lib/libtk8.4.so

So I am caught with some kind of path problem.

Any ideas or suggestions?

(And thanks to all the respondents so far)

john slimick
slimick at pitt.edu

============================================================
> John Slimick wrote:
>> I want to do a little Tkinter in my 1 credit 
>> python practicum, but I am having problems
>> getting everything installed correctly.
>> A sample of the problem is below:
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------- The python source, test.py ------------------
>> from graphics import *
>> 
>> def main():
>>     win = GraphWin("My Circle", 100, 100)
>>     c = Circle(Point(50,50), 10)
>>     c.draw(win)
>> 
>> main()
>> 
>> ----------- result of $python test.py --------------------------
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "test.py", line 1, in ?
>>     from graphics import *
>>   File "/home/slimick/cs198/graphics.py", line 85, in ?
>>     import Tkinter
>>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>>     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
>>   ImportError: No module named _tkinter
>> 
>> ------------result of $locate _tkinter ------------------------------
>> 
>> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp
>> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp.exp
>> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Modules/_dummy_tkinter.c
>> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Modules/_tkinter.c
>> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PC/os2vacpp/_tkinter.def
>> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PCbuild/_tkinter.dsp
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> I would appreciate any help on this.
>> 
>> And, thanks in advance
>> 
>> john slimick
>> slimick at pitt,edu
>> university of pittsburgh at bradford
> 
> john,
>     Go here:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-September/181603.html
> wes
> 


From mikesg at abv.bg  Fri Mar 26 02:54:05 2004
From: mikesg at abv.bg (Mike Grigorov)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 23:54:05 -0800
Subject: Jython 2.1 and Cheetah:Cyrillic templates output mixed encoding
Message-ID: <9d3e1c94.0403252354.2fba4541@posting.google.com>

I am using cheetah with jython 2.1 and I have problem generating templates
that contain cyrillic text. Some texts are printed OK and others are not. 

I searched Jython and cheetah projects mailing lists on sourceforge.net as 
well as these groups and tried some other fixes proposed but without success.

I call the template like this:

    PythonInterpreter pyiInterp = new PythonInterpreter();
    pyiInterp.set("textTool", TextToolkit.getInstance());
    String _body = readFile(strTemplateFile.replace('\\', '/'));

//----Encoding:
    PyString _pyBody = new PyString(_body);
//----

    pyiInterp.set("templBody", _pyBody);
    ByteArrayOutputStream bos = new ByteArrayOutputStream();
    PrintWriter pwOut = new PrintWriter(bos);
    pyiInterp.setOut(pwOut);
    pyiInterp.exec("from Cheetah.Template import Template");
    pyiInterp.exec("t = Template(source=templBody)");
    pyiInterp.exec("t.textTool = textTool");
    pyiInterp.exec("print t");

I tried replacing the section marked as //---Encoding: 
    String isoScript = _body;
    try {
      //The call to sun.io.Converters.getDefaultEncodingName() returns "Cp1251"
      byte[] bytes = _body.getBytes(sun.io.Converters.getDefaultEncodingName()); 
      isoScript = new String(bytes, "ISO-8859-1");
    }
    catch (Exception ex) {
      System.out.println("CONVERSION ERROR:" + ex);
    }
    PyString _pyBody = new PyString(isoScript);


This resulted in the problem inverted - the 'good' text became 'bad' and vice versa.

Here are sample lines one of which prints good text and the second - not 
good(depending on its position in the template) /I guess text will be garbled 
here/ :

${textTool.filler(35, " ")}????????? ????
${textTool.filler(35, " ")}???????????? ?? ??????????

textTool is a java object and this call produces 35 spaces

The encoding of the lines is the same(I checked the int values for the
letters). 


I tried:

import sys
sys.setdefaultencoding('cp1251')

It didn't help but it caused compilation of the encodings\cp1251.py module ->
cp1251$py.class so I guess it was taken into account

Please guide me to papers that can help solving this or propose ideas what 
might be causing this behaviour.

Thanks for your cooperation 
Mike


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Fri Mar  5 14:37:59 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 19:37:59 GMT
Subject: function to return a list of all methods for an object
References: <xL32c.531$No1.31862@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <4048d717$0$277$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:39:23 -0800, Kevin Altis <altis at semi-retired.com> wrote:
> I need a way of getting a list of all the methods for an object. I want the
> unbound methods for the objects class for some further manipulation.

> ... I came up with
> a much simpler version that uses dir(), but would like a sanity check before
> committing to it. Perhaps there is a better way? This only needs to work
> with Python 2.2 and later, so I won't mind say "Doh!" if I've missed the
> obvious simple solution and someone points out my stupidity.
> 
> 
> import types
> import pprint
import inspect
help(inspect.getmembers)

> 
> def getMethods(object):
#  don't use object !
>     methods = []
>     names = dir(object.__class__)
>     for name in names:
>         m = getattr(object.__class__, name)
>         if isinstance(m, types.MethodType):
>             #print "method:", m
>             methods.append(m)
>     return methods
> 
> 
Try it :
b = inspect.BlockFinder()
inspect.getmembers(inspect.BlockFinder, inspect.ismethod)


Regards.



From python at apocalyptech.com  Wed Mar 10 11:53:25 2004
From: python at apocalyptech.com (CJ Kucera)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:53:25 -0600
Subject: optparse variable parsing?
In-Reply-To: <090320041949184324%bscholln@mac.com>
References: <20040308232639.GB11572@unisrv.net> <404DD3C0.8050207@python.org>
	<mailman.175.1078843363.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<090320041949184324%bscholln@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040310165325.GH11755@unisrv.net>

benjamin schollnick wrote:
> Sorry for butting in here....
> But 14 options?  Is there not a way you can simplify this instead?

:)  I was wondering if anyone was going to ask about this.  I used
an "adduser" script as an example, because I had written an adduser
script in Perl (with Getopt::Long, which supports the kind of -p
syntax I was suggesting in my post (and in fact that's how the util
functions)), and I felt that what I wanted to do was better explained
with that example as opposed to the util I'm actually doing in Python
this time.

If you're curious, it's a rather crazy little util I'm using to
obfuscate and confuse text in various terrifying ways, built
primarily for my own use on a private list which is currently
involved in a war of escalating post silliness.  I just keep on
thinking of new things to add to it, and many of them ("enable
flag x") also have very-closely-related probability variables
("for every line y, with flag x enabled there's a z% probability
of this behavior occuring (with a default value of z, which I
currently have to override with another flag instead of just having
an optional argument to -x)).  Hopefully some part of that rambling
makes sense.

All but one or two of these options can be used in any kind of
combination with each other, too, leading to further and trickier
obfuscations; it's all quite ridiculous as you can see.  But
regardless, splitting it into different programs doesn't make sense,
and while I could certainly code an INI file for the thing, I'm just
not going to 'cause I like having it all on one line.  :)

> But if the command line is running low on space, turn the idea 90
> degrees, and declare it imaginary....

Heh, indeed.  Were this a more "serious" project I'd probably be
trying harder to find a good compromise.

Thanks for the response!

-CJ

-- 
WOW: Kakistocracy        |  "The ships hung in the sky in much the same
apocalyptech.com/wow     |    way that bricks don't." - Douglas Adams,
python at apocalyptech.com  |     _The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_



From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 14:46:53 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:46:53 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
Message-ID: <c2t43d$4od$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Kirk Strauser wrote:
> 1) Why do you ever use the root password under OS X?  There's really nothing
>    that you can't do using 'sudo'.  I literally *never* log in as root on an
>    OS X machine.
> 
> 2) Out of curiosity, why are your users disabling ssh?  If they're smart enough
>    to do that, aren't they smart enough to disable your script?
> 
> 3) Why would you store the unencrypted root password?  The 'chpass -a'
>    command lets (actually, requires) you to specify an encrypted password.
>    Store that in your script if you must.
> 
> 4) Get a 2x4, paint it black and write the word "LART" on it in blood red,
>    and tell your users to quick changing stuff or you'll have to schedule
>    them for "an adjustment".  Follow through once or twice if necessary.

1. To administer the machine.
2. All they have to do is click a check-box to disable ssh in OSX.
3. I didn't know about chpass.
4. We're informal. Admins are noramlly only called when the user has 
*really* messed something up. We put out their fires. When we try to 
stop them from creating fires, we become over-bearing and controlling... 
  classic admin/user relationship.



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 16:54:32 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 13:54:32 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7x1xnlqs77.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> 
> "def foo() as staticmethod" certainly looks best to me aesthetically.
> The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
> to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
> compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order
> to decide if it's a generator.

True, but if a method were both generator and static, then we would
have:

def foo() as generator staticmethod:
    ...

Add another keyword for thread behavior:

def foo() as synchronized generator staticmethod:
    ....

And another keyword for privacy:

def foo() as private synchronized generator staticmethod:
    ....

And your language become pretty close to... Java! :)

Or, following C#, you can also specify some attributes:

[attr1=2,
 attr2=3
 attr3="Hello"]
def foo():
    ....

-----------------------------------------

Of course there must be some reasonable compromise. I am coming from
the other end of the spectrum: meta-programming. In modern software
development, especially for large and complex systems,
meta-programming becomes more and more essential. If your language is
to grow with time, more and more keywords does not seem to be the way
to go. In some message-based languages like Io, even the if-statements
and the for-loops are not keywords: they are methods.

In the old days, when OOP just appeared, you used to see constructors
with long list of parameters. Nowadays it is much more common to see
things like SetAttribute() to change the behavior of an object. That
is, things are becoming more dynamic.

Metaprogramming is an unavoidable trend, in my opinion. In Java/C# you
use code generators. In C++ you use macros and templates. In Python
the staticmethod() can be interpreted also as a small metaprogramming
statement, not as a declaration of method type.

I am not against the "def foo() as staticmethod" syntax. I am just
bringing up a perspective on possible future problems. It is a little
bit like database table design: you could keep adding new columns to
your table for every new attribute, or you could normalize the table
by allowing a column to specify the attribute name/index, and a
different column for the value. In the first approach, you need to
modify the table definition and your programs when you want to add one
more feature. In the second approach, it becomes easy to add more and
more features, without redefining the table or modifying your program.

regards,

Hung Jung


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar 10 20:28:47 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:28:47 -0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <104vg6f87k7gb19@corp.supernews.com>

In article <fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Wouldn't it be nice, for example, if instead of special keywords like
>'lambda' and 'yield', we had used '@(args)' and '@return'.  ( No, I'm
>not advocating we go back and change what has been done.)  In both
>these cases, we had a well-established syntax that needed a slight
>variation.  
>
>The 'lambda function' for example, was needed to cram a small block of
>code into a tight space.  By saying '@x,y:' instead of 'lambda x,y:',
>we not only avoid the need for a new keyword, but we better serve the
>purpose of tightly packing some code.  We would also avoid mystifying
>beginners.  "It has no magic meaning.  It's just a way to write a
>function without a name."
			.
			.
			.
No, for me it would be so far from nice I first suspected you
of jesting, because, from my background, "lambda" *does* have
a magic meaning, one that long precedes its (entirely apt) use
in Python.  For you, '@(args)' might indeed be more evocative;
for me, not calling a lambda "lambda" would be a big loss.

I think APL and J (and Perl) are plenty meritorious.  I prefer
Python--much.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 09:48:19 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:48:19 -0600
Subject: Timeout on a UDP Socket
In-Reply-To: <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f@posting.google.com>
References: <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16477.43827.757599.32566@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    w> I'm having problems with this program hanging on the revc(buf).  I
    w> was trying to figure out a way to allow the socket to timeout.  

Since 2.3 you can set socket timeouts.  It ought to work for UDP sockets
though I've never tried it with anything other than TCP sockets.  Check the
socket module libref page.

Skip



From michael at foord.net  Mon Mar 15 06:53:09 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 03:53:09 -0800
Subject: Enjoying Inheritance and operator Overloading
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403150353.5f249c3f@posting.google.com>

I've been programming in python for a few months now - and returning
to programming after a gap of about ten years I've really enjoyed
learning python.

I've just made my first forays into inheritance and operator
overloading (both concepts that I initially found hard to grasp).

I've written a simple config file parser - and I thought I'd
experiment with making the interface easier by subclassing dict and
overloading the __setitem__, __getitem__ and __delitem__ methods......

The thing is I'm not 100% certain that what I've done is good python -
or even valid python.

As an example (my config parser is a bit more complex) I've shown my
technique for creating a 'case insensitive' dictionary... and would
welcome comments.

class lowerDict(dict):
    """A case insensitve dictionary. It converts the key to lowercase
when
    'getting', 'setting' or 'deleting' an item.
    May not work with pop or other methods."""
    def __init__(self):
        dict.__init__(self)

    def __setitem__(self, item, value):             # setting a
keyword
        item = item.lower()
        dict.__setitem__(self, item, value)

    def __getitem__(self, item):
        """To implement lowercase keys."""
        key = item.lower()
        return dict.__getitem__(self, key) 

    def __delitem__(self, item):                # deleting a keyword
        key = item.lower()
        if not self.has_key(key):
            raise KeyError(item)
        dict.__delitem__(key)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    a = lowerDict()
    a['HELLO'] =3
    print a


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar  3 12:47:04 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:47:04 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:32:34 GMT, m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless) wrote:

>["Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com>]
>
>>but only because 'sys.stdout.write' is too long to type all
>>the time, and never with more than one argument.
>
>Yes, I feel it's a pity that the standard write method of file objects
>doesn't take multiple arguments. Would take some of the pressure.
>
>One thing I can do since Python-2.2 is to inherit from 'file' and add
>for example a 'writem' (write many, write multiple) method. This does
>work.
>
>Unfortunately it seems I can't add that 'writem' method to sys.stdout,
>as the following shows.

Why do you want to do this, when it is so easy to define your own
class to do exactly what you want (as in your example below)?

>Anybody any ideas?

I think Ruby has what you need.  The default print method requires an
explicit "\n" on every line.  To me, this makes normal code look ugly,
but your preference is valid too.

Ruby also allows you to redefine its built-in classes, so if you need
that level of flexibility, this language may be a better choice.

Lua is also a possibility, but I know even less of that language.

Python differs from other languages in that it tries to keep a common
core language that is the same for everyone, while still allowing
extensions like your example below.  The arguments against providing
more flexibility (e.g. a builtin macro language) are strong.  See for
example:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bhqr78021hp%40enews1.newsguy.com

To add a variation of the print statement to the Python language, you
would need to demonstrate a real need for the change, not just a
personal preference for leaving out the " ".  Generalizing the
'sys.stdout.write()' method to include multiple arguments might be
more acceptable.  If you do a PEP along these lines, I would
emphasize:
- does not break existing code
- some good examples where this would have an advantage over current
best practices.  Your choice of integer arguments in the example below
is wise.  Had it been strings, the current solution would be to just
put '+' between the pieces instead of ','

-- Dave

>#!/usr/bin/env python
># -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
>"""Test file object."""
>
>__author__ = "Martin Bless, 2004-03-03"
>
>if 1 and "this does work":
>    class MyFile(file):
>
>        def writem(self,*args):
>            "Method to write many arguments."
>            for arg in args:
>                self.write(str(arg))
>
>    f2name = 'xxxtempfile'
>    f2 = MyFile(f2name,'w')
>    f2.writem(1,2,3,4)
>    f2.close()
>
>
>if 1 and "this does not work with sys.stdout":
>    """
>    Attempt to add a method to a class at runtime.
>    See Python Cookbook or ASPN,
>    Object-Oriented Programming, Brett Cannon.
>    """
>    import sys
>    def writem(self,*args):
>        "Function to be turned into a method.."
>        for arg in args:
>            self.write(str(arg))
>    # will not work
>    setattr(sys.stdout.__class__,'writem',writem)
>
>    """The above 'setattr' will give this error:
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "test_file_object.py", line 33, in ?
>        setattr(sys.stdout.__class__,'writem',writem)
>    TypeError: can't set attributes of built-in/extension type 'file'
>    """
>
>mb - Martin Bless



From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Thu Mar 18 15:37:29 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:37:29 +0100
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.18.20.37.27.378319@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:43:19 -0800, Jason wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
> implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
> (1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
> REALLY slow.
> 
> Basically, you specify two directed line segments in the coordinate
> system of a raster image and use the difference between those two
> lines to transform the image.
> 
> for a 400 x 600 image, python takes about 30 seconds to run the
> algorithm. This seems way to slow - I would expect it to run in a
> matter of a few seconds. Here's the code: what should I do to speed
> things up? I know I'm going to get a "do it in C/make a C extension"
> but that defeats the purpose: I'd like to know what Python can do
> here.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> [SNIP]

I can't try your prog because I have not Tkinter,
but I think this app would gain a lot in performances using psyco.
http://psyco.sourceforge.net/   <-- home
http://psyco.sourceforge.net/psycoguide/index.html  <-- doc

The simplest way to use psyco is putting
import psyco
psyco.full()
after your imports.

Ciao,
Riccardo


-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From happlo at numericable.fr  Thu Mar  4 04:51:46 2004
From: happlo at numericable.fr (Gilles Ansquer)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 01:51:46 -0800
Subject: Python and C
References: <1077275011.4035e983d897a@pascal.numericable.net>
	<mailman.146.1077391155.27104.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb15cef7.0403040151.459bd3b@posting.google.com>

Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.146.1077391155.27104.python-list at python.org>...
> hermes at numericable.fr wrote:
> 
> > Hi, this may be a newbie question, as I'm quite new to python but I'd rather get
> > your points of view instead of wasting a week or two on a wrong way 
> > 
> > I'm using python 2.3 on a mandrake brand new system 
> > 
> > My problem : I'd like to use a complex C program under python. 
> > After few researchs I tested SWIG, which seems to work for me exept that I'd
> > like to be able to 
> > use a C function under python that has this prototype 
> > 
> > void Fitimp(double *x1, double *x2... ) 
> 
> How will the implementation of Fitimp know how long these lists are?
> 
> > these double parameters are lists of double precision number.
> > The python script will read this datas from files, So i'd like to know how to
> > transform a python list of double precision float to a C double * variable
> 
> I don't know SWIG but I do know Pyrex, so here's a Pyrex solution:
> 
> import array
> 
> cdef extern from "header.h":
>          cdef void Fitimp(double *x1, int x1_len, double *x2, int x2_len)
> 
> def PyFitimp(pyx1, pyx2):
>          cdef double *x1, *x2
>          cdef int address1, length1, address2, length2
> 
>          array1 = array.array('d', pyx1)
>          address1, length1 = array1.buffer_info()
>          x1 = <double *>address1
> 
>          array2 = array.array('d', pyx2)
>          address2, length2 = array2.buffer_info()
>          x2 = <double *>address2
> 
>          print x1[0]
>          print array1
>          print x2[0]
>          print array2
> 
>          Fitimp(x1, length1, x2, length2)
> 
> PyFitimp(range(3,10), range(6,13))
> 
>   Paul Prescod



thanks for your help, it works really fine, 

altough I'm still having problem because I need to do multiple calls
to this function.
This bring the problem of freeing memory between two calls, is there
any specific way to do do it ? (I get a seg fault when I attempt
multiple calls
from python whereas it does not segfault with multiple C calls.)


Gilles Ansquer


From kbk at shore.net  Sun Mar 14 03:23:38 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:23:38 GMT
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.320.1079113077.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<87y8q52pvb.fsf@hydra.localdomain> <4052BD1F.B8190E0D@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87brmz3khm.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

Jason Harper <JasonHarper at pobox.com> writes:

> Running a Tkinter app in the subprocess works, you just can't debug it
> if it runs long enough to get into its mainloop.

Slightly modified from OP:

=================
from Tkinter import *

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):

        frame = Frame(master)
        frame.pack()

        self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red",
                             command=self.quit)
        self.button.pack(side=LEFT)

        self.hi_there = Button(frame, text="Hello",
                               command=self.say_hi)
        self.hi_there.pack(side=LEFT)

    def say_hi(self):
        print "hi there, everyone!"

    def quit(self):
        print "quitting"
        root.quit()
        #root.destroy()

root = Tk()
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()

====================

Using IDLE w/subprocess, set a breakpoint (right click) on 'print "quitting"',
Turn on the debugger, then Run/F5 this program. Click on 'Go', then
the apps' QUIT button.  The debugger will break on the print
statement.  You can then Step into Tkinter. The last line in the
debugger window is

> 'Tkinter".quit(), line 968: self.tk.quit()

So this is working as I would expect.  The debugger only traces Python.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "debug".

>> When IDLE doesn't use a subprocess, the user's Tk gets mixed with
>> IDLE's, and it's not surprising things fail.
>> 
>> For me, on OpenBSD, Linux, and W2K, using the subprocess: if I use
>> self.quit, the Dialog becomes unresponsive because the mainloop has
>> been exited.  But the advertised action on mainloop exit is to destroy
>> any remaining widgets, and that's not happening.  If I restart the
>> shell, the Tk widget is destroyed correctly.
>
> Where did you see that "advertised"?  

line 968 in Tkinter.py:

    def quit(self):
        """Quit the Tcl interpreter. All widgets will be destroyed."""
        self.tk.quit()

> quit() does nothing but cause the innermost mainloop() to exit, and
> exiting a mainloop() does nothing other than no longer processing
> events.  mainloops()s can be nested, 

What would be the application?  I've never tried that.

> they CAN'T have side-effects like that!

Looking at the code for .../Modules/_tkinkter.c:Tkapp_Quit(), it 
merely sets the quitMainLoop global to 1.  This causes the 'while'
in Tkapp_MainLoop() to terminate.  It looks like the doc string
is incorrect.

...

If the above code is run using IDLE (no debugger), once the QUIT is
pressed the widget becomes inactive and IDLE returns to its prompt,
as OP indicated.

Here's where it gets interesting.  Run the above code as follows:

python -i batista3.py

When you click on QUIT, Python prints 'quitting' and returns to its
prompt.  However, the buttons are still active, you can print the
messages as often as you like.  It appears that the mainloop is
still active.  I haven't figured that one out yet.  It's the 
same on Linux, and with Python2.2.2.

> If you exit without somehow calling destroy() on all your toplevels,
> it's the OS's process termination cleanup that kills the rest of
> them, as far as I can tell.  And of course IDLE's subprocess doesn't
> terminate just because your Python code finished.

You are correct about that.  The best way is to use root.destroy(),
as commented out in the above code.  Most Tkinter code calls 
sys.exit or runs off the end when you quit() the mainloop, so the
residual widgets aren't noticed.  

It's unfortuate that the sample Tkinter program uses quit():

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node633.html,

IMHO it's an example that gets people off to a bad start.

If you destroy() the root widget, Tkapp_MainLoop()'s call to
Tk_GetNumMainWindows() returns 0 and the MainLoop exits.  destroy() is
a good method which works both with IDLE and the interactive
interpreter.

Tkinter's quit() doesn't seem to map to Tk.  When using Tcl/Tk, the
usual way to exit Tk_MainLoop is to destroy the root window.

>From the Tk8.3 manual:
"Tk_MainLoop is a procedure that loops repeatedly calling
Tcl_DoOneEvent. It returns only when there are no applications left in
this process (i.e. no main windows exist anymore)."

> It would appear that IDLE needs to detect that the user program is
> using Tkinter (by importing Tkinter itself and overriding
> mainloop?), and in that case switch to a different strategy for
> handling communication with the main IDLE process - a routine that
> constantly reschedules itself via after(), most likely.  The problem
> is the initial RPC request that runs the user program: I'm pretty
> sure that the shell window is going to be non-responsive until it
> receives the reply, which isn't going to happen until the program
> exits.

I'm not sure what your objective is for this complication.  If you
run the above code, you'll see it has no difficulty sending output
to the IDLE GUI's Shell window.  You can also add a raw_input() to
the quit() method, and it works fine.

-- 
KBK


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Mar 21 06:52:48 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 03:52:48 -0800
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
	<b397c.868228$X%5.57128@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403210352.7b0281c1@posting.google.com>

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message news:<b397c.868228$X%5.57128 at pd7tw2no>...
> The problem, they say, is that a variable in a FOR clause can't bind a variable
> inside a lambda abstraction. 

I find this explanation confusing. It is just a matter of times:
the lambda uses the value of the bound name at *calling* time, not at
*definition* time:

>>> i=1
>>> f=lambda : i # definition time, i=1
>>> i=2
>>> f() # calling time, i has been rebound to 2
2

> >>> def p(x): print x
> >>> list=[(lambda j: lambda: p(j))(i) for i in range(5)]
> >>> x=map(lambda f: f(),list)

This works since the inner lambda uses the value of j at the calling time
of the outer lambda.

Just to clarifify the point for the OP, since I am sure you understand
the all story ;)


                  Michele Simionato


From viking_kiwi at yahoo.poofters.com  Thu Mar  4 15:02:07 2004
From: viking_kiwi at yahoo.poofters.com (Rod Stephenson)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 20:02:07 +0000
Subject: Modifying Entry widget diabledforeground in Tkinter...
Message-ID: <wk65dkv0sg.fsf@yahoo.poofters.com>

I want to modify an Entry widget to have the disabledforeground color
be black rather than grey (so that in certain circumstances the widget
acts as a label for displaying some stuff; the normal gray disabled
foreground color isnt really readable).

In Tk this is just a matter of using configure -disabledforeground
but this seems not to be an option with Tkinter. Reading through the
source there is a tk_setPallete which seems to do this globally, but
is there any way to do this locally for the widget?

tia



-- 
Bruce rule 1. 


From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 13:15:56 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:15:56 +0100
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <donn-30B316.09232423032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3pave$27ohpv$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<donn-30B316.09232423032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <c3pust$2ak31q$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
[On the topic of Haskell]
> Did you mention indent structured?  (optionally.)  

Ah, no I didn't. Of course the offside rule counts. It's just so seldom 
someone actually *asks* for significant whitespace that it fell right 
out of my mind. :-) (No such thing in either O'Caml or Erlang though).

> I can't
> say I've heard of a noticeable trend towards the kind of
> industrial use you can see for Erlang, but Haskell is an
> adventure anyway - quite far away from Python, for sure.

No, and there's a few good reasons for that IMHO; chiefly that it's 
bloody impossible to have an intuition about the space/time usage of 
ones programs. Or rather, you have to have a PhD on the subject before 
you get any good at it. As it happens I right next to quite a lot of 
people who do, but I realise that's not true for everybody. :-)

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson    (email at: http://www.ce.chalmers.se/~sax)


From duncan at suttree.com  Mon Mar 15 11:26:03 2004
From: duncan at suttree.com (duncan)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 08:26:03 -0800
Subject: Grok It
Message-ID: <5ac2eb76.0403150826.479a0498@posting.google.com>

Hello,

For anyone who's interested in IM bots written in Python, you might be
interested in this:

http://www.suttree.com/code/GrokItBot/

That being a hybrid PyAIML, Bayes Python bot for all your loosely
templated needs.

It's not meant to be a full blown chatterbot, but more of a
server/utility through which you can direct commands without having to
remember the exact syntax (thanks to the Bayes filter).

If you're interested in bots or AIML I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,

duncan


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 10 10:00:43 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:00:43 -0600
Subject: Searching comp.lang.python
In-Reply-To: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
References: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <16463.11675.196599.85895@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    MM> I went to the Python site to search posts made by group members. I
    MM> am not sure whether there is this functionality exists. If it does
    MM> could you please help a new comer.

Here's a page with tips on using Google to search the python.org domain more
effectively:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/GoogleTips

Skip



From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Mar 23 09:38:24 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:38:24 +0100
Subject: py2exe, mx.ODBC
Message-ID: <opr5bkaavz35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

Hi

- Win2000
- Python 2.3.3
- py2exe 0.5.0
- eGenix Comercial & Base Package

I am developing an app using mxODBC. On the home page they say

http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html#Hints

that one has to include

-i mx.ODBC.Windows,mx.DateTime

for py2exe find the appropriate files.

Well, I did that and called my setup.py as follows:

python setup.py py2exe -i mx.ODBC.Windows,mx.DateTime

The files and exes are created... here an excerpt of the creation log:

running py2exe
[... creating dirs zipped ...]

*** searching for required modules ***
*** parsing results ***
creating python loader for extension '_sre'
creating python loader for extension 'datetime'
creating python loader for extension 'wxPython.gridc'
creating python loader for extension 'wxPython.wxc'
creating python loader for extension 'mx.DateTime.mxDateTime.mxDateTime'
creating python loader for extension 'mx.ODBC.Windows.mxODBC'
*** finding dlls needed ***
*** create binaries ***
*** byte compile python files ***
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\ODBC\Windows\__init__.py 
to mx\ODBC\Windows\__init__.pyc
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\mx
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\mx\ODBC
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\mx\ODBC\Windows
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\ODBC\ODBC.py to 
mx\ODBC\ODBC.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\copy_reg.py to copy_reg.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\fonts.py to 
wxPython\fonts.pyc
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\wxPython
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\windows.py to 
wxPython\windows.pyc
byte-compiling d:\myapp\grid_tools.py to grid_tools.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\locale.py to locale.pyc
byte-compiling D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\temp\_sre.py to _sre.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\ODBC\Windows\dbtypes.py to 
mx\ODBC\Windows\dbtypes.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\macpath.py to macpath.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\popen2.py to popen2.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\stat.py to stat.pyc
byte-compiling D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\temp\datetime.py to 
datetime.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\atexit.py to atexit.pyc
byte-compiling D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\temp\wxPython.gridc.py to 
wxPython\gridc.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\events.py to 
wxPython\events.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\utils.py to 
wxPython\utils.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\DateTime.py to 
mx\DateTime\DateTime.pyc
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\mx\DateTime
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\grid.py to 
wxPython\grid.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\controls2.py to 
wxPython\controls2.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\Misc\__init__.py to 
mx\Misc\__init__.pyc
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\mx\Misc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\Parser.py to 
mx\DateTime\Parser.pyc
byte-compiling d:\myapp\addresses_impl.py to addresses_impl.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\Timezone.py to 
mx\DateTime\Timezone.pyc
byte-compiling 
C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\mxDateTime\__init__.py to 
mx\DateTime\mxDateTime\__init__.pyc
creating D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\mx\DateTime\mxDateTime
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\printfw.py to 
wxPython\printfw.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\misc.py to 
wxPython\misc.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\linecache.py to linecache.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\warnings.py to warnings.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\_strptime.py to _strptime.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\streams.py to 
wxPython\streams.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\sre_constants.py to sre_constants.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\re.py to re.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\ISO.py to 
mx\DateTime\ISO.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\ntpath.py to ntpath.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\ARPA.py to 
mx\DateTime\ARPA.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\sre_compile.py to sre_compile.pyc
byte-compiling D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\temp\wxPython.wxc.py to 
wxPython\wxc.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\filesys.py to 
wxPython\filesys.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\stattool.py to 
wxPython\stattool.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\controls.py to 
wxPython\controls.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\__version__.py to 
wxPython\__version__.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\string.py to string.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\rfc822.py to rfc822.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\UserDict.py to UserDict.pyc
byte-compiling d:\myapp\addresses_wdr.py to addresses_wdr.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\Misc\LazyModule.py to 
mx\Misc\LazyModule.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\wx.py to 
wxPython\wx.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\sizers.py to 
wxPython\sizers.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\repr.py to repr.pyc
byte-compiling 
D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\temp\mx.DateTime.mxDateTime.mxDateTime.py 
to mx\DateTime\mxDateTime\mxDateTime.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\sre_parse.py to sre_parse.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\copy.py to copy.pyc
byte-compiling 
D:\myapp\build\bdist.win32\winexe\temp\mx.ODBC.Windows.mxODBC.py to 
mx\ODBC\Windows\mxODBC.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\types.py to types.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\posixpath.py to posixpath.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\windows3.py to 
wxPython\windows3.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\windows2.py to 
wxPython\windows2.pyc
byte-compiling d:\myapp\inihandler.py to inihandler.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\sre.py to sre.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\cmndlgs.py to 
wxPython\cmndlgs.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\__init__.py to 
mx\__init__.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\os2emxpath.py to os2emxpath.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\frames.py to 
wxPython\frames.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\__init__.py to 
wxPython\__init__.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\calendar.py to calendar.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\ODBC\__init__.py to 
mx\ODBC\__init__.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\image.py to 
wxPython\image.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\mdi.py to 
wxPython\mdi.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\__init__.py to 
mx\DateTime\__init__.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\gdi.py to 
wxPython\gdi.pyc
byte-compiling c:\Python23\lib\os.py to os.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\misc2.py to 
wxPython\misc2.pyc
byte-compiling C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\clip_dnd.py to 
wxPython\clip_dnd.pyc
*** copy extensions ***
copying c:\Python23\DLLs\_sre.pyd -> D:\myapp\dist
copying c:\Python23\DLLs\datetime.pyd -> D:\myapp\dist
copying C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\gridc.pyd -> D:\myapp\dist
copying C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxc.pyd -> D:\myapp\dist
copying 
C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\mxDateTime\mxDateTime.pyd -> 
D:\myapp\dist
copying C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\ODBC\Windows\mxODBC.pyd -> 
D:\myapp\dist
*** copy dlls ***
copying C:\WINNT\system32\python23.dll -> D:\myapp\dist
copying C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxmsw24h.dll -> 
D:\myapp\dist
copying C:\WINNT\system32\ODBC32.dll -> D:\myapp\dist
copying c:\Python23\w9xpopen.exe -> D:\myapp\dist
*** copy data files ***
copying clients16x16.bmp -> D:\myapp\dist\
copying clients16x16_mask.bmp -> D:\myapp\dist\
copying clients32x32.ico -> D:\myapp\dist\
copying C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\py2exe\run_w.exe -> 
D:\myapp\dist\addresses.exe
The following modules appear to be missing
['mxDateTime.__version__', 'mx.ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect']


As you can see, in the last two lines it complains about not finding 
mxDateTime.__version__ and mx.ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect.

The wxWindows application runs but has of course no database connection. 
Am I missing here something? Here are the files created in the dist-folder:

clients16x16_mask.bmp
clients32x32.ico
datetime.pyd
addresses.exe
gridc.pyd
library.zip
mxDateTime.pyd
mxODBC.pyd
ODBC32.dll
python23.dll
w9xpopen.exe
wxc.pyd
wxmsw24h.dll
_sre.pyd

As you can see: mxDateTime.pyd and mxODBC.pyd are here...

Do you have any ideas what I must do, that mxODBC can be added properly to 
the "exe"?

Thanks for any hints,
Greetings,
Marco




From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Mar 18 20:01:40 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:01:40 GMT
Subject: Newbie question about attachment
References: <f046efac.0403120627.71a4bb4b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UDr6c.36634$PY.4421@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com <ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> My application goes like this:
> User can submit any attachment and can view all the attachments
> submitted by other users. Attachment contents can be anything.
> Now I want that if the user selects to view a particular attachment
> then if the browser is able to show the attachment then it should
> display the attachment otherwise ask the user to save the attachment
> on the local drive.
> How should I go about this??

Without any knowledge of what language or what Web framework you're
using, it's impossible to give you specific answers. Since you're
posting this question to a Python newsgroup, I'll assume you're using
one of the Python Web frameworks -- if that's not the case, then another
newsgroup would be more helpful to you. If you're using PHP, for
example, you should really be asking this question in the comp.lang.php
newsgroup.

For uploading attachments, you want to look into the HMTL <INPUT
TYPE="file"> tag.

For the browser viewing attachments, you want to look into MIME types
and how to set them in your server. E.g. if the attachment is a JPG,
you'd want to set MIME type "image/jpeg". Beware of bugs in Internet
Explorer, which Microsoft *still* hasn't fixed, that cause it to ignore
MIME types in favor of file extensions!

I hope this helps. If you need more help, post a more detailed question.
Code snippets are a major plus: Saying "My code doesn't work!" is
useless to us because we can't see your code. But saying "My code
doesn't work. Here's the code, here's what I think it should do, and
here's the error message I'm getting" will get you help from several
different knowledgeable, skilled people.

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From lidor at qualityprogramming.org  Wed Mar 10 06:38:31 2004
From: lidor at qualityprogramming.org (Lidor Wyssocky)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 03:38:31 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <74dfebc6.0403100338.5bca220@posting.google.com>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) wrote in message news:<153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6 at posting.google.com>...
> Today I tried to implement some sort of unit testing into my program
> for the first time, and must admit to being a little disillusioned
> with the process. Mainly, my issue is that in my program, the classes
> are so tightly coupled that testing in isolation is next to
> impossible.
> 
> The main problem stems from the fact that I try to ensure that all my
> objects are created in a working state. This often means passing
> various other objects to the __init__ function. In turn, these other
> objects rely on others, and on general initialisation procedures. The
> end result is that there are very few objects I can truly test in
> isolation; I have to initialise at least 80% of the system before I
> can even create most of my objects. This ends up meaning that unit
> testing isn't really testing a single unit at all, and in fact isn't
> much more precise than liberally using asserts in the normal code.
> 
> One way out of this would be to reduce coupling. This would allow me
> to test objects in relative isolation, but it would increase the
> amount of explicit coupling code that I'd have to execute normally.
> This extra code then becomes a potential source of new bugs.
> 
> Has anybody else come to similar conclusions?

You may be able to use some of the guidelines available at: 
http://www.qualityprogramming.org/Testing/DesigningDeveloperTests/DesigningDeveloperTests.htm

Lidor

_____________________
Lidor Wyssocky
http://www.QualityProgramming.org
http://www.SharpDevelopment.com


From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Mar 25 08:14:54 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:14:54 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
In-Reply-To: <c3uk3u$57a$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<c3uk3u$57a$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3ulvf$ral$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Peter Otten a ?crit :
> David McNab wrote:
> [...]
> 
> $ timeit.py -s"from re import findall" "findall('.{2}', 'aabbccddee')"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 9.28 usec per loop
> $ timeit.py -s"from chunks import chunks" "list(chunks('aabbccddee', 2))"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 7.7 usec per loop
> $ timeit.py -s"from chunks import chunklist" "chunklist('aabbccddee', 2)"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 7.01 usec per loop
> 
> And finally the black sheep:
> 
> $ timeit.py -s"from chunks import chunksiter" "[''.join(ch) for ch in
> chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2)]"
> 10000 loops, best of 3: 27.4 usec per loop
> 
> To me the greatest difference seems that chunks() and chunklist/divide() can
> handle arbitrary sequence types while re.findall() is limited to strings.
> My attempt to tackle iterables is both slow and errorprone so far (you need
> to exhaust every chunk before you can safely advance to the next).
> 
> Peter
> 

take care with that kind of comparisons...
Especially look at the last two comparison ! the only difference is the 
construction of the list...

so what ? "Beautiful is better than ugly"
Make your choice ;-)

timeit.py -s"import re" "f = re.compile('.{2}')" "f.findall('aabbccddee')"
100000 loops, best of 3: 7.67 usec per loop

timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunks" "list(chunks('aabbccddee', 2))"
100000 loops, best of 3: 7.3 usec per loop

timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunklist" "chunklist('aabbccddee', 2)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.3 usec per loop

timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunksiter" 
"list(chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2))"
100000 loops, best of 3: 11.8 usec per loop

timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunksiter" "[ x for x in 
chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2)]"
100000 loops, best of 3: 15.2 usec per loop


Yermat



From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar  6 11:08:58 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:08:58 -0500
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
Message-ID: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>

I've got a module that defines a bunch of constants:

OP_FOO = 1
OP_BAR = 2
OP_BAZ = 37

and so on.  The values are all unique.  I want to build, at module 
import time, a reverse map of these constants, i.e. I want to end up 
with:

{1: "OP_FOO", 2: "OP_BAR", 37: "OP_BAZ"}

I can find the appropriate symbols:

for name in dir():
   if name.startswith ("OP_"):
      print name

But I don't see how to get the values.  Getattr() is sort of what I 
want, but it works on objects, not modules.  Not to mention that I don't 
see how to get a handle to the module from inside the module, i.e. 
there's no "self".

What am I missing?


From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Tue Mar 16 06:11:30 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:11:30 +1100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<20040315224552.028$iF@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.16.11.11.30.958571@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:45:53 -0700, Hamilcar Barca wrote:

> In article <c353om$23bqmc$1 at ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de> (Mon, 15 Mar 2004
> 21:28:47 +0100), Luca T. wrote:
> 
>> r,w,e = popen2.popen3('su -c ls')
>> 
>> So it seems that "su" refuses to work if it is run like this.
> 
> su needs the user's password and it insists on reading it from a tty
> because it can control echoing.

Maybe pexpect can help you here. It works great on linux.

Simon.



From garryknight at gmx.net  Sat Mar 20 19:07:50 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:07:50 +0000
Subject: [snip too-long subject]
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.149.1079674608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7jxhuuex.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dVGXAls/KHBK089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <1079827655.31510.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>

In message <dVGXAls/KHBK089yn at the-wire.com>, Mel Wilson wrote:

> In article <7x7jxhuuex.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>>Preferred style these days is to use list comprehensions instead of
>>map and zip.
> 
> zip?  Do you mean filter?

>From 'Learning Python' by Mark Lutz and David Ascher:

<quote>

The built-in zip function allows us to use for loops to visit multiple
sequences in _parallel_. In basic operation, zip takes one or more
sequences, and returns a list of tuples that pair up parallel items taken
from its arguments. For example, suppose we're working with two lists:

>>> L1 = [1,2,3,4]
>>> L2 = [5,6,7,8]

To combine the items in these lists, we can use zip:

>>> zip(L1,L2)
[(1, 5), (2, 6), (3, 7), (4, 8)]

Such a result may be useful in other contexts. When wedded with the for
loop, though, it supports parallel iterations:

>>> for (x,y) in zip(L1, L2):
...     print x, y, '--', x+y
...
1 5 -- 6
2 6 -- 8
3 7 -- 10
4 8 -- 12

</quote>

It might be useful to think of the items in each list coming together like
the teeth of a zipper. But it's better than that: you're not constrained to
two sets of teeth:

>>> L3 = [9, 10, 11, 12]
>>> zip(L1,L2,L3)
[(1, 5, 9), (2, 6, 10), (3, 7, 11), (4, 8, 12)]

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 20:59:36 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:59:36 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roger Binns wrote:

>>"The internal structure of a .pyc file depends on the implementation
>>details of the particular version of the Python interpreter that it was
>>compiled with"
>>
>>now when you phrase it that way, it makes sense...
> 
> No that is not what I meant.  What I meant is that the very existence
> of .pyc files is an implementation detail of one version of the Python
> interpretter.  Tomorrow it could use 3 different files, or none at all.
> They are pretty much an optional behind the scenes performance optimisation
> for CPython.  There is no requirement for them to exist.

Is it really the case that it isn't even recommended to distribute one's
application as .pyc files?

In commercial apps for which one might not want to distribute the source
for, it would be really nice if one can count on just requiring the end-user
to install a version of Python (but not extra extension modules anymore) and
then distribute the app as a bunch of .pyc's packaged in a .zip file and
use the PYTHONPATH method you showed.  Just remember to provide a set of
.pyc's for each version of Python you support.

> Java does something similar behind the scenes with HotSpot.
> It compiles things to native code, and keeps profiling information.
> They are not written out to disk and hence are not persistent
> between executions, but if they were the usage would be analogous
> to .pyc files.

In Java, profiling info may not be written out to disk, but the
bytecodes certainly are (they are what is in the class files).  Which
is roughly equivalent to what happens with .pyc files, correct?   .pyc
files don't contain profiling info, nor was I ever aware that the Python
VM even does run-time behaviour profiling... (Pysco may, though)

 > If you write your own Python interpretter/compiler, it will be
 > considered compliant if it implements the language correctly.
 > There is *nothing* about bytecodes, or bytecode compatibility.
 > For example if you wanted to write your own that ran on top of
 > Java, you would probably just directly generate class files.
 > If you wrote one that ran on a Palm device you would do something
 > else.  It is up to your implementation what it does.  The
 > only requirement would be working with Python *source* files.

Okay, I get it.  "Nothing in the spec specifies that .pyc files
have to exist". Further, "even the existence of a VM representation
is not part of the Python spec".

In practice though, there is really just one implementation of Python
(with the standard libraries... excluding Jython) which works using the
same bytecode mechanism on _all_ platforms, so as far as I can tell,
it would be quite feasible to distribute applications in .pyc form.


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 12:07:34 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 01:07:34 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

Jon> Huh??  .pyc files are an "implementation detail of the Python
Jon> interpreter"?  Care to expound further?  'Coz that sounds pretty
Jon> nonsensical...

"The internal structure of a .pyc file depends on the implementation
details of the particular version of the Python interpreter that it was
compiled with"

now when you phrase it that way, it makes sense...


From bo at systemhouse.dk  Sun Mar  7 08:44:09 2004
From: bo at systemhouse.dk (Bo Jacobsen)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:44:09 +0100
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
References: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<20040307020101.539$r9@news.newsreader.com>
	<OCE2c.105781$jf4.6357260@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<404b18ce$0$565$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <RGF2c.105804$jf4.6360171@news000.worldonline.dk>

> > I'm been looking at perl and python, and I really like the strict
syntax,
> > handling
> > of function parameters etc. Without include and function prototyping
though,
> > will probably have the effect that large source files, with a lot of
> > function
> > definitions at the top, will be generated. Not god.
>
> Why do you think this is so?
>
> Have a look at any Python example sourcecode (for that matter,
> at some of the .py files from Python's standard library; for instance
> cgi.py) and you will see that Python's import mechanism is working fine.
> No big source files with lots of definitions at the top.
> Just import the module which contains the definitions you need...
>
>
> > Perl on the other hand has it all, including very productive features as
> > built-in
> > regular expressions, file scanning etc.
>
> Python has the re/sre module for regular expression stuff.
> File scanning is often done like this:
> for line in open("myfile.txt"):
> process(line)
>
> > . ./filename
> > Is the shell "include/execute" command.
>
> Python's "include" command is the import statement.
> If you really want (but WHY?) to read in and directly
> execute another source file, use the execfile function.
>
> --Irmen

I'm very new to Phyton (I looked at it for the first time last night), so
you must have me excused.
The "execfile" perfectly solves my worries about prototyping and
include, GREAT.
As I wrote earlier, I really like the "feeling" of the language, now I
just have to find the time to dig more into it.

By the way, is there an elegant way to read shell program output
into a variable as in bash: var=$(command1 | command2)


Bo





From ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com  Wed Mar 10 09:55:51 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:55:51 GMT
Subject: Okay Heres the problem: in Index
References: <mailman.210.1078905376.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <X%F3c.80330$OH4.54722@fe2.texas.rr.com>

To do this for every word, build a Set of found words as you read through
the e-mail (import the sets module to get the Set class) - a Set will not
duplicate any entries, so when you are done, the Set will contain every
individual word from the e-mail.  Then follow Miki's instruction for each
word in the Set.

"dont bother" <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.210.1078905376.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Hey Miki,
> I have to do this for everyword that is occuring.
> Its not that , that I have to do this only for the
> word "syntax". How can I do this for every word. I
> want a general solution that can work.
> Any ones game for this?
> Thanks A ton though,
> Dont
>
> > > 1. The numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, that are in the output
> > of
> > > the vector.py are the corresponding position of
> > the
> > > words in the email_message, that I ran against the
> > > dictionary_index. I want the index of the
> > > corresponding word in the dictionary. For example:
> > If
> > > "syntax" was occuring in the dictionary at 500. I
> > want
> > > the 500 syntax <value> instead of 6 syntax <value>
> > > that I am getting right now.
> > When you load the dictionary just remember the line
> > of each "syntax" and
> > print it later.
> >
> > --- *not tested* ---
> > syntax = {}
> > lines = {}
> > for lnum, line in enumerate(open("dictionary.txt")):
> >      val, syn = line.strip().split(":")
> >      syntax[syn] = long(val)
> >      lines[syn] = lnum
> > ---
> >
> > > 1 index value index value index value index value
> > > index value
> > I don't see the problem here.
> >
> > HTH.
> > Miki
> > --
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
>




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 31 10:49:41 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:49:41 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com><1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com><roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com><58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com><c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04><c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04><mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list@python.org><temac.74866$cx5.61050@fed1read04>
	<tyfzn9x1d0l.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c4epae$krt$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
news:tyfzn9x1d0l.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch...
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
>
> > Goodbye.
>
> Mark, Please _do_ take the hint that Terry is giving you. I would like
> to read your posts, but your top-quoting style makes them so difficult
> to decypher that I am finding it not worth my time and effort.
>
> > "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list at python.org...
> > > What is 'this'?  Who is 'you'?  Where is the original suggestion?
What
> > did
> > > who say what is fragile?

...

What's funny and sad about this is that I would not be surprised to
discover, after some experience, that prototypes fit my brain better than
the class model.  Too bad he could not allow himself to see the satiric
humor of my hint.

Terry J. Reedy






From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 19:11:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:11:28 -0500
Subject: The cgi module is no substitute for a dictionary.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.146.1080686442.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.146.1080686442.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opKdnRVvi5otkffdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Rob Landley wrote:

> <gripe>
> 
> cgi.FieldStorage() doesn't give me a dictionary.  Instead it gives me 
> something that pretends to be a dictionary, badly.
> 
> If it was a dictionary, I could print it and get a list the form entries sent 
> back to me.  When writing code to parse preprepared forms (such as a credit 
> card verification service returns), this is actually rather nice to be able 
> to do.
> 
> </gripe>

Check the source.  Maybe cgi.print_form() will do what you want.  If
not, it should be pretty easy to add the right thing.

-Peter


From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Mar 13 12:30:46 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:30:46 GMT
Subject: strings question
References: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<%Xw4c.11856$H44.213955@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc56h9i.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:26:19 GMT, Andrew Koenig <ark at acm.org> wrote:
>
> "Faheem Mitha" <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote in message
> news:slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem at Chrestomanci.home.earth...
>
>> If I am given two strings, named foo and bar, what is the most elegant
>> way to create a string object whose name is the value of foo and whose
>> value is the value of bar?
>
> The most elegant way might be to avoid altogether the notion of computing
> variable names and use a dict instead.  It is unlikely that you really want
> to be able to comput a variable name on the fly, because what happens if the
> resulting variable happens to clash with a name that you are already using?
>
> If you could say a little more about your application, perhaps we could tell
> you more.

Hi,

Yes, someone else also suggested a dictionary, and I agree it is the
best way to go. Potential name clashes had not occurred to me till you
mentioned it, though.

I'm trying to produce a list of DNA sequences for further manipulation
with the names and the values of the sequences read from a file into
strings, and so in this case, the value of foo would be the name of
the sequence, and the value of bar would be the value of the sequence.

However, I'll look at what other people have suggested. I am new to
python and so don't even understand the answers, but will read up on
exec etc.

I own one of your books, by the way (Accelerated C++). :-)

Thanks to everyone who replied.

                                                               Faheem.


From xml-admin at gnome.org  Mon Mar  8 08:08:13 2004
From: xml-admin at gnome.org (xml-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:08:13 -0500
Subject: Your message to xml awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040308130813.3847.3213.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xml' with the subject

    Re: Re: Thanks!

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From tcronj2spam at me.not.ananzi.coza  Mon Mar  8 02:40:56 2004
From: tcronj2spam at me.not.ananzi.coza (tcronj)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:40:56 +0200
Subject: not getting SimpleXMLRPCServer with allow_none to work
Message-ID: <gP-dndN6bq2dv9Hd4p2dnA@is.co.za>

Hi,

I applied the patch as described here

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=893642&group_id=5470 


but still it seems that allow_none=1 is not recognized.

I attached a sample client and server using SimpleXMLRPCServer.py
Is there somting I should do differently to get it working?

TIA
Tertius

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From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sun Mar 21 02:11:22 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 07:11:22 GMT
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<c3ht8l$tmh$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
	<873c83tcr6.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c3jf6q$5nr$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Kurt B. Kaiser <kbk at shore.net>:
> AFAIK, FreeBSD doesn't actually produce a package file.  But you are
> correct, it does make an entry into the database.

If by package file you mean a .tgz which you can copy to another machine
and then apply "pkg_add" to, this is created by the target "make package". 


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Sat Mar 13 18:16:46 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:16:46 GMT
Subject: Safety of pickle?
Message-ID: <yDM4c.210$pa6.162325@monger.newsread.com>

Is it safe to unpickle data from an untrusted source? Is it safe to use 
the values returned without lots of annoying type checking?


From secun at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 08:20:06 2004
From: secun at yahoo.com (ChrisH)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:20:06 GMT
Subject: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
References: <mailman.463.1080342363.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ad1ec4b50893beb989681@news2.atlantic.net>

What about making this cross-platform?

It could be useful for Windows / Linux admins alike?

(BTW, I like webmin a lot, but unfortunately, it doesn't help the 
Windows world.)



In article <mailman.463.1080342363.742.python-list at python.org>, 
dlee at rightnow.com says...
> I'm looking for an example of a well designed web application used to do sys-admin type functions.  Our company has a fairly large internal python web-app that we use for managing DNS, adding/removing pop accounts, installing/upgrading/removing instances of our (c/PHP based) customer product, etc.  Our home grown web app works very well and has been around and growing for 2+ years.  In my mind things are getting large enough that we could stand to think 
long and hard about the overall architecture and where we are going long term.  (Not that we've never thought about it, but you know how things keep growing and growing.....)
> 
> So basically I want to see well designed applications that are in the same space (sysadmin oriented).  I know of and have played a little with some of the big names in infrastructure (Zope, quixote, etc) but it's hard to really commit to one of those unless I see that it's really a good match for what we are doing.  For instance Zope seems more suited to content management type activities, though this may be naivety on my part.  And going through the 
tutorials doesn't give me a great sense of how it matches our needs.  Seeing something in action that is similar to what we already have would be more compelling.
> 
> Anyway our environment is basically your classic LAMP set up with lots of oracle thrown in as well.  I'm especially interested in uses of sudo called from web pages, authentication techniques and remote procedure calls.  We've got our own solutions to these problems but I'm interested in seeing other ways of doing it.  I'd even be willing to wade through non-python code if I'd learn something general about how to design such a system.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> dustin
> 


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 30 16:05:43 2004
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:05:43 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <4068EFAA.8060309@earthlink.net>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<4068EFAA.8060309@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4069E127.1070006@earthlink.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Charles Hixson wrote:

| Michael wrote:
|
| | They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for
| one | would be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people
| using | spaces if they like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able
| to use | tabs if I like. I can't see how it should make any
| difference to | Python which you use so why not allow for personal
| preference? | |> I'll just mention that there are ***very good***,
| that is |> ***extremely good*** reasons why the Python standard is
| to use |> spaces for indentation, and why the option of using tabs
| will be |> removed in 3.0. |> They can't possibly be good enough
| (for my needs).  That said, where can I check this.  I don't want
| to make important decisions on incomplete information.

Well, I've just checked the cvs source build (version of 2004/03/30),
and it handles files with tab-based indentation without problem or
warning.  So I suspect that it will continue to do so.  (I also
checked all the PEPs and the BDFL's commentary, and a few other places.)

I think someone was just spreading FUD.  (Quite effectively though, as
far as I'm concerned.)
There are good reasons to not mix tab indentation and space
indentation, and that would cause me no problems.  The other though
(shudder).

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFAaeEnE1guSVL8NK8RAvt1AKDmXEzW7w7zFRzjXsoEdDooUMg5iACdFtL2
RAzmwQiE4G1VffB3B8ecXW8=
=HE84
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From tmohr at s.netic.de  Sun Mar  7 04:44:43 2004
From: tmohr at s.netic.de (Torsten Mohr)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:44:43 +0100
Subject: wrapping C++, how to wrap an object?
Message-ID: <c2equb$4la$2@schleim.qwe.de>

Hi,

i just read everything that i found for writing modules
and interfacing to C/C++.

I'd like to write some wrapper code for some C++ class.
For this i want to store an object of this class in
Python somehow.

how can i store a memory region (the object) in a Python
data type?


Best regards,
Torsten.




From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 14:36:38 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:36:38 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <40687AC6.5050401@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> I wrote:
> 
> I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
> for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
> Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
> other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
> 25?
> 
> ...and got replies:

Here is another one.
If you believe in statistics, then you might consider
to build a dictionary of SHA digests, only. The chance
that you get a hash clash is very, very small, if you use
the sha 160 bit algorith as in the sha module.

I just did some tests on my 2 GHz machine:
Taking a million of sha digests on a 1000 char record
takes about 25 seconds.

A rough guess of memory consumption:
a dict takes 3 words per slot and wastes aproximately
two slots per entry, this is 6 words (compact),
every sha string is 20 bytes plus 5 words overhead for
the string object, which probably aligns up to 12 words.
So one entry is 18 words if you store None or a hit count as the
value. So we end up with 72 bytes per entry.

Too bad, this is about 7 million records, not 10.

While it would easily fit with a special string type, which in this
case could be extremely efficient:
- No length, since we store sha hashes, only
- no hash, because these keys are more random than anything
- we could allocate chunks of them

The dict would store no value at all, so we would have
4 words per slot with indexes into a flat pre-allocated
area of string space for the sha keys.
So we are at 9 words per entry, and you are set. :-)

It would cost me a day to implement that special dict for you.
Maybe it is at the same cost to double your main menory :-)

Of course it would be easiest to make dict and string table
the right size from the beginning, to avoid the duplication
process.

I believe the whole process is more reliable than your
computer hardware, but to be sure, you might write out
duplicates and their positions during the process, for further
testing.

cheers - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 16:17:20 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:17:20 -0800
Subject: creating lists question?
In-Reply-To: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I'm trying to create a series of list from a loop is this possible? Let me
> give you an example:
> 
> list1 = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]
> 
> for element in list1:
>   a = element
>   a = []
> 
> I want a new list created for every element in list1, how can I do this.

Do you mean:

lists = []
for element in list1:
     lists.append([element])

Or using list comprehensions:

lists = [[element] for element in list1]

  - Josiah


From python at g2swaroop.net  Tue Mar 16 16:58:50 2004
From: python at g2swaroop.net (Swaroop C H)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 13:58:50 -0800
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5168381b.0403161358.5f9aecfd@posting.google.com>

Hi Alessandro,

alessandro_valerio at msn.com (pius) wrote in message news:<3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1 at posting.google.com>...
> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
> of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
> programming.

I have written a free beginner's book to programming using Python
located at 

http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/

Hope you find this useful.

- Swaroop


From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 14 02:29:21 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:29:21 +0900
Subject: embed python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc51dig.f0l.peterstrempel@peter-strempels-computer.local>
References: <c2pi2o$17dm$2@news.riken.go.jp>
	<slrnc51dig.f0l.peterstrempel@peter-strempels-computer.local>
Message-ID: <c311q8$1vah$1@news.riken.go.jp>

Thanks Peter,

> In article <c2pi2o$17dm$2 at news.riken.go.jp>, Marc Schellens wrote:
> 
>>Can somebody tell me how to handle
>>this #include issue when embedding python?
> 
> 
> Usually "#include "Python.h" is the right way. Then tell your compiler
> to add "python2.3" to the include list. On gcc pass "-I/usr/include/python2.3"
> or similar to the compilation step.
>>Why NOT (according to  the python doc) ude
>>#include <python2.3/Python.h>
>>?
> 
> 
> Well, you actually can do that, it will work just as above way. But when
> you upgrade your Python to 2.4, you need to change your sourcecode. Otherwise
> you only need to change your Makefile.

ok, but why everybody writes #include "Python.h" instead of
#include <Python.h> ? The latter form is the corrcet one for
header files wich are not part of the actual project.

marc



From no at sp.am  Sun Mar  7 12:25:04 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:25:04 -0600
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rJednY3Tm_Vux9bdRVn-gQ@comcast.com>


> I am totally hooked on what I have learned about python.  I am going to use
> it to develop a simple data entry app I need for some financial record
> keeping.

For a simple data entry app, it really doesn't matter as much.  But I 
guess if you need it to work on Windows & Mac & Linux, I'd use wxPython 
or Tkinter.

I assume you will have some text fields and such to add or edit a 
record, and some code to store records in a database perhaps.
See the dbBrowser sample for PythonCard, which is based on wxPython:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/dbBrowser.html

Although for your app you might just want to use a standalone database 
like pysqlite or gadfly instead of mysql.


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 18 00:31:41 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:31:41 -0800
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>
	<c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <4059343D.51CDA39F@alcyone.com>

Nicola Mingotti wrote:

> Here i was looking for what you told me , so something like :
> x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y if x and y are numeric object , 
> every string is greater than every number (ErrorObject ,
> user define class ... ??) ...

You're guaranteed there will be some ordering between types, but you
don't know what it is, and it might vary from implementation to
implementation.  That is, for example, on a given implementation, either
all strs will be greater than ints, or all ints will be greater than
strs, but you shouldn't rely on either behavior.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ The color is red / Under my shoe
    -- Neneh Cherry


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 15:49:36 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:49:36 -0500
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
Message-ID: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Is there a shred module in Python? You know, the kind that overwrites 
files that one doesn't want others to see? I can call the unix program 
like this:

x = os.popen("/usr/bin/shred -uvz NAME_OF_FILE")
x.read()
x.close()

But, I'd like a platform independant (portable) way of doing this if 
possible.

Thanks,
Bart



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Mar  7 19:28:49 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 00:28:49 +0000
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87k71wi3lq.fsf@pobox.com>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) writes:
[...]
> on their presence). Sure, technically I could create dummy objects to
> pass in that have do-nothing functions, but then I break most of
> Creature's accessors, which are implemented in terms of delegating to
> the other objects. In turn this would make the tests meaningless.

It seems that way to start with, but they're far from meaningless.

Read some of the tutorials on unit testing if you want to reassure
yourself that your unit tests (especially those using mock objects)
are just as 'trivial' as other peoples'.


> None of this makes testing any harder or less useful in catching bugs;
> it just means that it ends up being an almost straight duplication of
> my normal code, with the input handling stripped out! It hardly seems
> worth the effort.

That's right: you write the test, you think "this test code is so
trivial it hardly seems worth the effort".  Then you run them, and you
think "OK, maybe it's not so trivial".  OK, most (but not all) of the
bugs you find in that process are in the tests, not the code.  Just as
important, though, it makes you think about what you're writing,
reducing coupling.  Then, later, you break your code, and the trivial,
obvious, unit test saves a lot of time.  Then, later, if you
reimplement your interface, and spend a good solid chunk of time
rapidly fixing bug after bug after bug in the new implementation (each
bug revealed by the tests), you'll wonder if it would even have been
*possible* to reimplement it without the unit tests.

Still, I'm told some people write good code without unit tests.  I
don't really understand how.


John


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar  8 23:47:03 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:47:03 -0800
Subject: Start
In-Reply-To: <c67b7192.0403080229.51ed73ea@posting.google.com>
References: <c67b7192.0403080229.51ed73ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2jidj$96f$1@news.service.uci.edu>

glaine wrote:

> Start 
> Hello
> I'm new in python. I try to make a script like
> a sub routine which save the win registry each
> morning after the win98's running. I have a lot of
> problems to concretize my idea about the moment
> when my script start. How to do to run automatically 
> my script each morning after the win98's running
> I will accept any suggestions or ideas. I found 
> some elements with win32events and handle, but I don't
> understand very well what handle means in python. 
> Is there anybody to explain
> me ? Thank all for your help.
> Save Registry.py
> import _ winreg
> t=file('c:\\windows\\bureau\\toto.txt','w')
> p=_winreg.SaveKey(Keys x, Keys y,'t')
> Guillaume

Just use the command:
regedit /E c:\windows\bureau\toto.txt

Given a few short moments, you should have a satisfactory backup of your 
registry.

  - Josiah


From faheem at email.unc.edu  Thu Mar 25 18:38:58 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:38:58 GMT
Subject: indexing question
Message-ID: <slrnc66rad.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

Dear People,

Suppose I create a numarray arry (say). A numeric array would be fine
too; it probably does not matter. 

>>>import numarray
>>>foo = numarray.reshape(numarray.arange(9),(3,3))
array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
       [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
       [ 8,  9, 10, 11],
       [12, 13, 14, 15]])

Is there some way to select the indexes corresponding only to (say)
two rows or columns?

ie suppose I just want the first and the fourth row or the first and
third columns? Is there some clean way to do this which does not
involve extract individual rows or columns?

Ie. I want something like
>>> foo[?,:]
array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
       [12, 13, 14, 15]])

etc. 

Suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance.

                                               Faheem.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Mar 29 15:26:15 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:26:15 -0300
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837E9@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Peter Otten wrote:

#- >>> 10**100
#- 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
#- 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000L
#- 
#- As for signed integers, the sky's the limit :-)

Or your machine's memory, the smaller of both, :)

.	Facundo



From ir4u4 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 01:29:36 2004
From: ir4u4 at yahoo.com (Equis Uno)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 22:29:36 -0800
Subject: Best way to run ipython inside of emacs shell?
Message-ID: <692feddd.0403072229.7d1d4675@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I just figured out how to run python inside of emacs:

I use meta-x shell to start a shell and then once I see a shell
prompt I enter the python command and I get a well-behaved python
shell inside of emacs.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to run ipython inside of emacs.

When I run the ipython shell command inside of an emacs shell it
does not act very clean (the prompt is messy looking).

So I put two files in my /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/ dir:

python-mode.el
ipython.el

I got both files from 
http://ipython.scipy.org/

I'm not sure what to do next.

So far I've tried this:

-run meta-x ipython while inside of a shell buffer
-run meta-x ipython while inside of a shell buffer which is running ipython
-run meta-x ipython while inside of a python-mode buffer

All three of the above ideas obviously don't work.

Please post some clues.

thanks,

-moi


From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Mar  5 01:32:19 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 06:32:19 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <slrnc4g7nk.4rp.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <du73c8ofx57.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi>, Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>> "David" == David M Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> writes:
> 
>    David> I would call it *pragmatically* implemented OOP.  It's not
>    David> "proper" as some would see it.
> 
> Elaborate?

Python lacks access controls (private/protected etc), though you can use __
name munging.

Dave Cook


From technoumena at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 22:55:19 2004
From: technoumena at yahoo.com (Technoumena)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:55:19 GMT
Subject: [Python/C] Help me.. How to passa dictionary to C function?
In-Reply-To: <c4duc5$95d$1@news.kreonet.re.kr>
References: <c4duc5$95d$1@news.kreonet.re.kr>
Message-ID: <HoMac.151613$_w.1694109@attbi_s53>

>   if (!PyArg_Parse(args, "O", &PyDict_Type, &dict)) {
Shouldn't this be "O!" ?
> How can i access to the dictionary from C module??
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/api/dictObjects.html

Regards,
Technoumena


From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Thu Mar 25 14:17:16 2004
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:17:16 -0500
Subject: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. - Bayesian
	Filter detected spam
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFE@pippin.int.etrials.com>

Jeff,

Thanks so much for this, it works fine on the rest of my data too. I'm going to have to create code that will do the reverse conversion too so I want to make sure I understand what happened here so I can apply the same concepts. I have some instructions on the reverse-process and I believe its mostly bit-shifting.

This is somewhat "teach a man a fish" so I appreciate you're bearing with me on this basic CS stuff. I think I'm nearly there...

def ibm360_decode(s):

    #Get element 0 of the unpack tuple
    #struct format : > = Big Endian, Q means unsigned long long 
    #not sure why we need an unsigned long long ? 
    #think its because we need that to do bitwise operations?

    l = struct.unpack(">Q", s)[0]     

    #The sign is the first bit, we have 8 bytes = 64 bits. 
    #So shift the bits 63 to the right dropping everything but our sign bit off the end

    sign = l >> 63

    #Our exponent is 7 bits positioned 57-63
    #So we bit shift down 56 digits to drop off everything that isn't part of the exponent 

    exponent_with_sign = (l >> 56)

    #But we still have our sign-bit at the left side so we've got 8 digits
    #we need to cut off that extra digit
    #we can do this using the bitwise & to compare our number against 00111111 
    # (0x7f - 64 == 127 - 64 == 63 = 111111)
    # e.g. for 7 with a positive sign we'd have
    # 7  = 10000111    (looks like 135)
    # 63 = 00111111 &
    #      --------
    #       0000111 = 7
    #  
    # But I'm clearly missing something here because 63 is only 6 binary-digits long and we need
    # to cut off the 8th...127 would seem to be more appropriate (but doesn't work). Umph ?

    exponent = exponent_with_sign & 0x7f - 64


    #Ok, moving on. 
    #The mantissa is the last 56 bits (reading from left->right) so we need to cut off the first
    #8 bits which means ANDing (&) with a large number representing all 1's for 56 of those bits
    #and zero for the others e.g. 00000000111111...1111

    #The / by 16. ** 14	has me scratching my head, I admit. Our mantissa is firmly planted in the
    #right hand side of our binary number isn't it? But we're dividing by a massive number....?

    mantissa = (l & ((1L<<56) - 1)) / (16. ** 14)

    #The instructions said the true exponent is 16 * the exponent value we extracted, again, not
    #sure why we're multiplying the mantissa up too?

    return [1,-1][sign] * (16**exponent) * mantissa


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jepler at unpythonic.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:39 AM
To: Ian Sparks
Cc: Python-List at Python. Org (E-mail)
Subject: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. - Bayesian
Filter detected spam


Note that Python floats are C doubles, which generally have a 53-bit
mantissa.  This means that not all ibm360 floats can be exactly
represented.  The exponent ranges may also not match up.  Finally, I
have no idea if ibm360 floats have special representations for cases
like denormal, NaN, infinity, etc. so these aren't handled.

Basically, the approach is to pull the bits out of the original string
and then do some arithmetic to turn them into floats.

I don't know anything about ibm360 format, but I followed your
description, and the test passes..

import struct

def ibm360_decode(s):
    l = struct.unpack(">Q", s)[0]
    sign = l >> 63
    exponent = (l >> 56) & 0x7f - 64
    mantissa = (l & ((1L<<56) - 1)) / (16. ** 14)
    return [1,-1][sign] * (16**exponent) * mantissa

def test():
    vectors = [
        (155, 'B\x9b\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
        (77, 'BM\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
        (1, 'A\x10\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
        (0, '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
    ]

    for v, s in vectors:
        d = ibm360_decode(s)
        print v, d, `s`
        assert d == v

if __name__ == '__main__': test()



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Mar  9 12:32:44 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:32:44 -0500
Subject: calling python in emacs from a shell buffer doesn't make
	input/output.
In-Reply-To: <c2ggrr$1u83$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
References: <c2ggrr$1u83$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <404dff64$0$579$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

leo wrote:
> hi there
> 
> i'm running python 2.3.3 on on my panther imac and at work on
> cygwin-windows.

I have the same issue.  For a work-around I usually just open a python 
file named "test.py" and then start python's interactive mode (Ctrl-C !) 
and don't bother to save "test.py"

Brian



From max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com  Wed Mar  3 10:06:41 2004
From: max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com (max khesin)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:06:41 GMT
Subject: Jython Debugger?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1078317201.727.python-list@python.org>
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<3b091a1c.0403030152.68ecc055@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.9.1078317201.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5wm1c.7283$Wo2.2455@twister.nyc.rr.com>

(Un) fortunately the new folk (me) have not fallen for emacs (yet).

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Carl> I'm still looking for a real graphically debugger though.
> 
> What visual features do you want that an X/Emacs+gdb+python-mode+pdbtrack
> can't give you?
> 
> Skip
> 


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 19 08:21:36 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:21:36 -0500
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>
	<c3b18o$ao9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<suuni1-u55.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3d4nq$gho$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<oh2qi1-mvc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <105lt0vp1otqd71@news.supernews.com>


"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
news:oh2qi1-mvc.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com...
> > There is nothing wrong with adding tuples.  I would expect that normally
> > the number of exceptions is somewhat small, so the overhead of tuple
> > addition is not that bad...
>
> Yes, it is only done once per startup and then potentially once per
> opening a device with a broken driver.  I was just trying to answer
> someone wondering why you would ever want to change the exceptions
> caught at runtime.

Which you did very nicely. Thank you.

John Roth

> Roger
>
>




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 05:11:26 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:11:26 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <tyfad296vjl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:
> > The current foo=staticmethod(foo) makes the Python 'staticmethod' seem
> > like a hack. Many users of staticmethod won't even need to know that
> > wrapping takes place. It certainly discourages people from using the
> > feature in the first place.
> > 
> > And when did syntactic beauty stop mattering?

Most importantly, the current style separates the unambiguous
information that the method is a static or class method from the "def"
which starts the method's definition, by far too much.

> "def foo() as staticmethod" certainly looks best to me aesthetically.

My only slight reservation is the increased "keyword overloading". For
example ... "static" has something like 7 distinct meanings in C++ (at
last count), and I find that this has a detremental effect on
discussions with colleagues. I hope that Python will be able to avoid
such problems.


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:59:15 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:59:15 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>

> But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
> on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.


I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you mean the
garbage colector?  The mark and sweep just behaves like another app running
at the same time and uses a hunk of the cache to do it's job.  Other than
that I can't think of anything unfriendly to the cache.  Am I missing
something in your question?

> >  - the stackless-ness
>
> I wonder what effect that has on the ability of C code to
> make callbacks into the interpreter.

The interpreter supports C code calling Prothon code and vice versa.  Also
either one can call a function without knowing what it is written in.  If
you look at the codebase you will see examples of every possible
combination.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c48clk$2dt6vr$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Jon Franz wrote:
> > What I found interesting was:
> >  - native threads via locks on each object
>
> Presumably this is bearable because of the lack of reference
> counting, so that objects don't need to be locked and unlocked
> at too frantic a rate.
>
> But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
> on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
>
> >  - the stackless-ness
>
> I wonder what effect that has on the ability of C code to
> make callbacks into the interpreter.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From jorgeri at rochester.rr.com  Wed Mar  3 21:46:49 2004
From: jorgeri at rochester.rr.com (Jorge Rivera)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 02:46:49 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <tMw1c.58353$um1.34455@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

> 
> As for me, I would say practically the same things about Java. :-p
> 

Wow, you are comparing a fairly useless language (Lisp) with a powerful 
and flexible languange (Java), and would come up with the same arguments 
as to why it sucks?

Not that I really care, it is just interesting how your preconceived 
notions of Java blind you...


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar 30 17:24:21 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:24:21 +1000
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE0153613B@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Gerrit
> 
> There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they 
> are there
> with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
> 'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.

Whilst I (obviously) agree entirely about top-posting, the above statement also applies to post HTML Gerrit ... ;)

Tim Delaney

From llothar at web.de  Tue Mar 23 14:51:12 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403231151.36de00d5@posting.google.com>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>  > That rather depends on what you mean by "Python-like".
> 
> 
> Oh dear...

yes, oh my dear...., you posted a troll question.

There is nothing like that what you want. It is just not there because
it is impossible. You should go to a library and read a book about
compiler construction. It simply does not work with languages like
python which are extremely dynamic - including metaprogramming.

Even a full compiled LISP, that means safety settings set to lowest
priority and typedeclarations everywhere simply isn't much of the lisp
you may (not) know.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 07:22:47 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 13:22:47 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyf1xnu47vs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> writes:

> Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static typing, I think.

Maybe you should check your facts a bit more, before making such bold
statements :-)

> Static typing has to do with explicit declaration (initialization)
> of variables (and not of variable types).

Does it really ?

I suggest you go to an ML or Haskell newsgroup and make that
claim. Come back and report your experience.

(Hint: They are both statically typed languages, and you won't find
many explicit declarations in them.)

(Hint 2: the word "typing" in "static typing" does *not* refer to
pressing keys with your fingers, it refers to the types of objects in
a computer program.  See Dang Griffiths' repartee in
<33bd6435fb366a01954fafca8a8f34e3 at news.teranews.com>)

> Python [...] variables are necessarily bound to a particular type.

Are they really ?

>>> a = 3
>>> type(a)
<type 'int'>
>>> a = ''
>>> type(a)
<type 'str'>

Variables in Python are NOT bound to types[*].

Python variables are bound to objects. Those objects "know" their own
type. So there is an *indirect* association between a variable and a
type. In that sense your statement is correct. There is, however, no
fixed relationship between a variable and a type (which is what
"static" in "static typing" actually means).

> So, Python is dynamically typed, and also strongly
> typed

Can't argue with that.

> ...as opposed to statically typed and strongly typed like in C/C++
> (casting notwithstanding).

Acutally, C and C++ are pretty weakly typed (but do bear in mind that
"strongly typed" and "weakly typed" are not well-defined concepts
anyway), even without casting.


[*] Well, they could be bound to types, because Python types are also
    objects:

      a = int
      b = dict
      c = MyClass


From cindyjps at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 23:28:42 2004
From: cindyjps at yahoo.com (cindy)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 20:28:42 -0800
Subject: >"Jeff Bond" <jbond@nowhere.com> wrote in message
Message-ID: <a92e5603.0403112028.7373b6b6@posting.google.com>

>"Jeff Bond" <jbond at nowhere.com> wrote in message 
>
> Let's meet there so you can show me
> what a dangerous guy you are.   I'll even buy you a burger and fries.
> Name the time and I'll be there.
>
> !!!!!!!!!
>1. I don't eat burger and fries so i don't where you got that info.
>along with all the other shit you little chicken.
>
>
>2. Let's meet you chicken 3pm 3-10-04 at lat 37.840086 long -122.1040
>you little chicken bok bok if you can get away form doing the pizza doll

!!!!!!!!!!!

"Jeff Bond" <jbond at nowhere.com> IS A 100% NO SHOW HOT AIR CHICKEN SHIT.

LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF I WAS AT lat 37.840086 long -122.1040 AT 3PM
BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF
BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF 
BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF
BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN SHIT JEFF


"Jeff Bond" <jbond at nowhere.com> wrote in message news
> Okay, Roger, I confess.  I stole your mail, stalked you day and night,
> stole a car and left it in your driveway, made harassing phone calls to
> you (while my wife screamed at me), and yes, I even cyberstalked you.
> Oh, and that old grey and red Honda?   Yeah, that's mine too (in
> addition to the White Bronco like OJ's).
> 
> But I'll have you know I am *not*  5'8" and 160 pounds.  Get your facts
> straight! im a 3' stalker troll that plays w/his 2" all day.
> 


!!!!!!!!!

o we all have your facts straight  sbc, police, sheriff 
with video with sound, pics , phone tapes by me & sbc. 
so why don't you call det.at and at and at and sbc.

they will be more then happy to take you back to the funny farm
and lock you up in the big white room.


From remy.blank_asps at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 04:28:57 2004
From: remy.blank_asps at pobox.com (Remy Blank)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:28:57 +0100
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
In-Reply-To: <9oSdnRHo7cgXB9XdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch> <9oSdnRHo7cgXB9XdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <404d8e59$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Nevertheless, if you are really doing things in a test-driven fashion, 
> it should not be necessary to use __builtins__, if the open() calls and 
> such are in your own code.  In that case just create a reference to your 
> mock file system methods in the module under test, using the names 
> "open" and "stat" and so forth, and they will shadow the __builtin__ 
> names.  (Locals are found first, then globals, then builtins.)

That's a good approach when testing a single module. However, when 
testing multiple collaborating modules, doesn't it become difficult to 
ensure that all modules see the same stub functions? Or in the following 
case:

def FileSize(Path):
	import os
	return os.stat(Path).st_size

By sticking the functions into __builtins__ and os, all modules will see 
the same functions.

OTOH, I can imagine situations where one would want to have one module 
seeing the stubs, but others to see the normal functions.

> The idea of a standardized or at least widely used "full-featured" 
> virtual file system is an excellent one!  Writing tests that rely on the 
> real filesystem can be awkward and is probably one of the many small 
> things stopping/slowing some people from adopting TDD more.

Yes, it almost discouraged me, too. Well, I think I'll give it a try and 
come back with some actual code for feedback. Watch out for "mockfs"!

-- Remy

Remove underscore and anti-spam suffix in reply address for a timely 
response.


From lucat at despammed.com  Sun Mar 14 16:46:18 2004
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca T.)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:46:18 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
In-Reply-To: <u9tei1-qqo.ln1@valpo.de>
References: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u9tei1-qqo.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <c32jtn$23i7d1$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mathias Waack wrote:
> Luca T. wrote:
> 
>>1) I need to run some linux commands (from inside my app) that
>>require superuser privileges (mkfs, losetup, etc), how do i do
>>that? (I do not want to run my app with root privileges, but it
>>will just ask the user for the root password before proceeding)
> 
> 
> man sudo(1), su(1) or setuid-bit (chmod(1))

Hmmmm,
ok... "sudo" requires me to modify the user's system (or in other words 
write in /etc/sudoers), a thing that i don't want to do. My app has not 
to change the configuration of the machine.
Same thing for setuid-bit/chmod.

This leaves me with "su"... but there is a problem... "su" doesn't 
execute any command, it just gives you a "prompt" as root (or another 
user)... how can use this?

Thank you,
    Luca


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 19 09:01:44 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:01:44 -0500
Subject: Python doesn't know class of function ? : class C:def f():pass;
	l=[f]; print C.l[0].im_class
References: <19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3eug4$h2n$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Robert" <k.robert at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0 at posting.google.com...

Functions do not have a class.

> Python doesn't know the class of a method when container not direct
> class attribute:
>
> >>> class X:
> ... def f():pass
> ... g=f

at this point, f and g are both *functions*

> ... l=[f]

and l is a list containing function f

> ...
> >>> X.g
> <unbound method X.f>

When you ask for attribute g and function g is found, g gets wrapped and
returned as an unbound method.

> >>> X.l[0]
> <function f at 0x01A9E1F0>

l is a list so no wrapping is done

> >>> X.l[0].im_class
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'im_class'

> why is l[0] a <function>. Any possibility to find the class of this
> beast dynamically?

To repeat, functions do not have a class.  Any function defined anywhere
can be made an attribute of multiple classes (that do not have attribute
addition turned off).

Terry J. Reedy






From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Mar 16 21:42:49 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:42:49 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<abbf50l09jdtlup5mpnudi5pm6f4q7ku41@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <JWO5c.22497$8G2.3909@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:00:04 -0500, cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca
> (David M. Cooke) wrote:
> 
>>Personally, almost all my uses of 'is' are of the form 'x is None' or
>>'x is not None'.
> 
> Here are some more test results (averaging 10,000 evaluations in a
> tight loop):
> 
>        time (sec)    %
> Test 1: 3.68E-007   100.0 F is False
> Test 2: 4.87E-007   132.1 F == False
> Test 3: 3.71E-007   100.0 N is None
> Test 4: 5.51E-007   148.6 N == None
> 
> The '== None' test is 49% slower than 'is None', but in absolute time,
> the difference is only 180nec (on my new, but not top-speed PC).  So
> it would take about 10 million of these comparisons in a short time to
> make a noticable difference to the user.
> 
> I can't see where the 'is' test would *ever* be needed for the above
> comparisons.


Say you define the following class:

    class SomeRankedObject:
        def __init__(self,rank):
            self.rank = rank
        def __cmp__(self,other):
            return cmp(self.rank,other.rank)


Now, try to test it against None with "==":

    x = SomeRankedObject()
    x == None
    

Oops, the Python interpretter just chewed you out for trying to access
the nonexistent 'rank' attribute of the None object.

If you want to test whether two expressions are the same object, use
"is".  Otherwise, use "==".  Period.  It's as close to an absolute
rule as you'll ever find in programming.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From cbearden at hal-pc.org  Thu Mar  4 10:57:22 2004
From: cbearden at hal-pc.org (Chuck Bearden)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 15:57:22 GMT
Subject: Unicode & mx.ODBC module
References: <40466a21$0$7052$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>
	<c26ksc$9c1$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <404751e2$0$7055$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>

On 2004-03-04, vincent wehren <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:
>
> "Chuck Bearden" <cbearden at hal-pc.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:40466a21$0$7052$a726171b at news.hal-pc.org...
>| I'm having a tough time understanding how to manage Unicode when loading
>| data into an MS SQL server. <snipped for brevity>
>
> ...
>
>| html_f = open(sys.argv[1], 'r')
>| htmldata = html_f.read()
>| html_f.close()
>|
>| #-- make statement string and insert values tuple, and execute
>| stmnt = """
>|   INSERT INTO pmLinkHTML
>|   (PMID, Ord, HTML, HTMLlen)
>|   VALUES
>|   (?, ?, ?, ?)
>| """
>| val_t = (549, 0, htmldata, len(htmldata))
>| cur.execute(stmnt, val_t)
>|
>| cur.close()
>| con.close()
>| --------------------------end snippet--------------------------
>|
>| For my pains I am rewarded with:
>|
>|   Traceback (most recent call last):
>|     File "./unitest.py", line 27, in ?
>|       cur.execute(stmnt, val_t)
>|   UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xbe in position
>|   45662: unexpected code byte
>|
>| Byte 45662 of the HTML file is indeed "\xBE".  I don't think that should
>| be a problem.
>|
>| What am I doing wrong?
>
> What happens if you decode htmldata first by using
>
> enc = "iso-8859-1" #change to whatever the input file's encoding is
> htmldata = unicode(htmldata, enc)
>
> ?

Thanks.  That was simple.  It feels so good when you stop beating your
head against a brick wall.  After using your timp to make my 
simplified code above work, I was able to figure out how to apply it 
to my more complex real project.

I think I'm still not entirely clear on when Unicode encoding & 
decoding happen in Python and for what reasons.  In my searching on this
problem I kept my eye open for a nice, systematic treatment of Unicode
in Python, but I haven't found anything yet.

Again, many thanks for your repsonse.
Best wishes,
Chuck



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 04:25:05 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:25:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: URGENT: REALLY NEED HELP: Feel Helpless
Message-ID: <20040309092505.98247.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey Friends,
I am stuck up. I have to finish this class project. I
went up trying out python in the only few days I had,
and now I feel a bit nervous about . I have to
complete my project amidst finals. The only problem I
have is in generating feature vectors for spam
classification. The rest I can do myself with a C
engine.
Heres the python code, for generating a dictionary and
a vector . My problem is that when a new email
arrives, I have to parse it, remove html tags and
compare the words in the payload with the words in the
dictionary. (which my program is doing)
If there is a match, I want the exact index of the
word in the dictionary. I have to figure out only
this:
Rest is not so difficult.
I am listing my previous email here, and I will be
really grateful if someone can help me getting around
with this.
I promise myself to be a big python player in the days
ahead.

Thanks
Dont
----------------------------------------------------
# python code for creating dictionary of words from an
input file
import string, StringIO
import mailbox, email, re
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt


fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

dictpos={}
wordcount={}
#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()


for i, w in enumerate(file('dictionary_index')):
	dictpos[w.strip()]=i
	#print i
	#print w

for w in msg:
	try:
		wordcount[w]+=1
		#print wordcount
	except KeyError:
		wordcount[w]=1
		#print wordcount

for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
	try:
		print dictpos[w],':',c
	except KeyError:
		pass



#print wordcount
#print dictpos
#print '\n'

But this does not give me anything. I get no output at
all. I dont really understand, if this is doing the
matching in the words in the email message with the
words in the dictionary  and "Yes" if it does,  it
should give me the corresponding index.
I have a piece of code, which does check for matching
but the problem as I mentioned, I need the index in
the dictionary not in the index of the word in the
message.

heres the code which gives me the vector, matching the
word in the email message by comparing  with the words
in the dictionary:


import string, StringIO
import mailbox, email, re
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt



#load up external dictionary:
words = open('dictionary_index', 'r').read().split()
dct = {}
for i in xrange(len(words)):
     dct[words[i]] = i

print dct.values()

#make vector:
vector = {}

fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

msg=email.message_from_file(fp)

msg=msg.get_payload()

#a = float(len(fp))

#a = float(len(words_in_body))


#get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
all lowercase:
lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
'+lower+133*' ')

#words_in_body = fixed_body.split()

msg = fixed_body.split()

a = float(len(msg))
print a

for i in msg:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1

         except:
             vector[i] = 1

for v,i in enumerate(vector):
    vector[i] /= a
    print v,i, vector[i]
    #; if u want to see the word too that was commmon
    #print v, ":",vector[i]


    #rint "\n"

#1.write(s)
#1.close()

-----------------------------------------------

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 22 23:09:46 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:09:46 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405FB88A.12995153@alcyone.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" wrote:

>     * ZOE is apparently written in Python, never played with it. 
>       Claims
>       to focus on wireframes and particle systems.

ZOE is indeed all-Python, using PyOpenGL.  It's designed to be very
minimal (you could certainly do non-wireframe stuff but that's not what
I use it for).  It's really a very simple engine designed to allow you
to create objects that know how to display themselves, group transform a
bunch at a time, and create particle system behavior.  It's minimal
enough that I can run it without hardware 3D acceleration with decent
framerates.

I created it so that I could do visualizations with some of my own
projects, and decided to release it since it's generic.

> However, these engines (save maybe ZOE, about which I know next to
> nothing) are focused primarily on teaching, rather than game or
> application development.

It would be fair to put ZOE in the same category.  It's for rapid
prototyping and simple visualization, not serious 3D application
development.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ You are inspiration to my life / You are the reason why I smile
    -- India Arie


From john.burton at jbmail.com  Tue Mar 23 03:40:19 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:40:19 +0000
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <405ff7f4$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

John Burton wrote:

> One of the reasons I like python so much is that the standard 
> installation comes with a whole lot of libraries to do lots of useful 
> things but there seem to be a few things missing from the standard 
> library which would be useful in many projects:
> 
> Encryption - AES and 3DES. Possibly RSA and Certificate processing.
> DNS - Something better than gethostbyaddr for looking up other record 
> types.
> Database - Something suitable for small projects / prototypes like 
> pysqlite or something in pure python even.
> SSL/TLS - Some useful support...
> 
> A lot of projects seem to need some of those. It's easy enough to 
> install extras to do those thing but they are all things where it would 
> be nice to have something in the standard library that you could rely on 
> being there.
> 
> Is there any reason why those things are not already in the standard 
> library?

Thanks for all the comments.
The reason I chose those particular things was that they were things 
that a fair number of programs seem to need but which there is no real 
reason to need more than one implementation so it seems sensible to 
include it. Obviously you can't put everything in.

Maybe the database thing doesn't qualify for that but it would be 
*really* useful to be able to write tools and utilities that you could 
put on a random manchine with python and they'd have some kind of 
database available


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar  3 16:06:30 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:06:30 -0800
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c25hhs$jk4$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I understand tkinter is official and simple to use, but many who use
> wxPython swear by it, and it is gaining ground.

wxPython is easy to use, free, and available on most every platform you 
could want to use.


> I would like to run on any platform, but that's not critical.  What I want
> to do is support an app that will grow over time, and should look clean.  I
> don't want to spend lots of time maintaining GUI code rather than app logic.

If you build your application right, maintenance shouldn't be a huge issue.

While I favor wxPython, it is really the only toolkit I've ever used, 
and can only really say that I enjoy using it.

PyGTK looks to be about as easy to use, but I have no experience with 
it, so I'll not comment.

I would argue against using PyQT, if only for the license restrictions 
on Windows.

I would suggest you not try FXPy (Python's link to the Fox GUI toolkit), 
if only because the latest version is quite old.

Initially for writing GUIs in Python, I tried tk, but found the learning 
curve to be too steep.  It seems to get easier the more you use it.


  - Josiah


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 10 06:57:58 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 06:57:58 -0500
Subject: The Order Of Dictionary Entries
References: <in93i1-ctp1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <c2mvs6$jtb$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <in93i1-ctp1.ln1 at eskimo.tundraware.com>,
Tim Daneliuk  <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
>
>I am aware that dictionary order is not guaranteed.  But I ran into
>something puzzling today.  I filled a dictionary dynamically as a
>program ran.  Up to a certain point, the key order was the order
>in which things were added.  However, at some point, the dictionary
>appeared to reorder its contents in some non-deterministic way - in
>fact, it looked like it was putting all the uppercase keys first,
>followed by lowercase keys.
>
>I'm just curious, just what _is_ the approach used for ordering
>dictionary keys?

Use the source, Luke.  See Objects/dictobject.c

Hint: dicts are based on hashing.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 17:03:14 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:03:14 -0600
Subject: Timeouts with urllib2
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0403161344.299c3bb3@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0403151037.3e78dca9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1.1079382673.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7b454334.0403161344.299c3bb3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16471.31138.548643.397301@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Fazer> I was wondering what's the best way of setting timeouts when
    Fazer> working with urllib2.
    >> 
    >> Using 2.3+:
    >> 
    >> >>> import socket
    >> >>> socket.setdefaulttimeout(3)
    >> >>> import urllib2
    >> >>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.musi-cal.com/search?performers=Greg+Brown")
    ...

    Fazer> Any idea how I can accomplish this in Python 2.2 versions?

Google for timeoutsocket.  There's also timeout_socket.  Two different
implementations of timeouts.

Skip




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 02:58:19 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:58:19 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c3oqsl$mfe$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Paul,

I've been wanting to email you for a couple days, but I've been having 
difficulty in finding your email address online anywhere, or even 
derived from the "Sender" header (though I didn't try too hard other 
than to strip out the -nospam portion).  If you would email me directly, 
I'll reply with what I've been wanting to say.

Thanks,
  - Josiah


From amcova at fastwebnet.it  Tue Mar  2 18:10:44 2004
From: amcova at fastwebnet.it (Andrea Cova)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:10:44 +0100
Subject: word search
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040302234226.027d8eb0@pop.fastwebnet.it>

Hi,
i'm trying to write a program that finds single words that works like this:
i'd like to find a word, the exact word, without making mistakes like, when 
i'm looking for 'cow', he tells me he found it in 'coward'.
I have an idea how to do this in C, but i guess it would be less complicate 
in python.
The findall() function would be ok, but i need to make some modifications 
like this one:
I want the program to find matches only when the word isn't in the middle 
of other letters. Other kinds of chars instead are accepted. (for instance: 
' cow ', '_cow_', '(cow)',' -cow, ' are right matches).


I need this for a program that does the following: i've got a list of song 
titles, saved in a txt file for example, and a list of filenames in a 
directory (mp3 files), and for each song title i want to find the best 
match in the filenames.
Then when all the matches are done I modify the mp3 files' tags according 
to the information in the txt file.
I know there are windows programs to do this, but they don't have functions 
like taking a text list and find the corresponding mp3 on their own.

And two little questions:

1-i read in the manuals that if i want "search()" to ignore the case, i 
have to put the flag I. I can't get this to work. Could you write me an 
example of how to write this? I
2-how can i make also "findall()" be case UNsensitive?

Thank you.




From malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 04:19:06 2004
From: malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 01:19:06 -0800
Subject: proper use of braces in Python (was: Prothon Prototypes vs
	Python Classes)
References: <mailman.152.1080695131.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d114ac8b.0403310119.35185e66@posting.google.com>

Jim Benson <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.152.1080695131.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Michael wrote:
> 
> > 
> > >>Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
> > >>next line" wars.
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >
> > >    int main (void)
> > >    {
> > >        if (true)
> > >        {
> > >        }
> > >
> > >        return 0;
> > >    }
> > >
> > >There is no other way.
> > >  
> > >
> > No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!
> > 
> > int main ( void ) {
> >     if ( true ) {
> >         return 1;
> >     }
> >     return 0;
> > }
> > 
> > This is clearly better. Compact yet easy to read. I try formatting my 
> > Python code exactly like this and it always complains about my braces.. 
> > clearly wrong.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...just a food for thought from a Python list lurker.
> I have always been a strong adherent to the
> 
> if (true) {
> 
> }
> 
> form. Not too long ago on this list (i think it was), 
> someone pointed out that you never see:
> 
> If (true) BEGIN:
> 
> END
> 
> humm...i thought, your right, in that case i guess
> i would probably write the BEGIN on a different
> line...not sure what indention of the END 
> i would choose. 
> 
> Jim

And is there a conflict?
When I used Delphi/Pascal, I always go for:

if true then
begin
...
end

and using C, invariably:

if (true){
..
}

After all, it's indentation, which is more or less cosmetic in these languages.

Muhammad Alkarouri


From kbk at shore.net  Mon Mar  1 00:58:48 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:58:48 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
References: <5d83790c.0402290218.2d3c493f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8765dp5crs.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:

> Copying
> -------
> To copy lists and dictionaries, the traditional idioms were l=mylist[:]
> and d=mydict.copy().
>
> When some of the builtin functions became types, a more consistent
> approach became possible, l=list(mylist) and d=dict(mydict).
>
> In general, mutable types can be copied using their type constructor.
> This will also work with the new types being introduced in Py2.4,
> s=set(myset) and d=collections.deque(mydeque).
>
> For immutable types, the type constructors are smart enough to reuse the
> existing value, so t=tuple(mytuple), s=str(mystring), and i=int(myint)
> all return the original object (same identity) which can be used as if
> it were a copy.

What do you mean, "as if it were a copy." It's just a binding to the 
original.  When would you use this notation instead of just
>>> s = myset  ?

> Taken together, the type constructors for mutable and immutable
>types encapsulate much of the knowledge in the copy module
>(pertaining to shallow copies).
>
>
> Init
> ----

[...]

> In Py2.4, the new mutable types, set() and collections.deque(), both
> offer __init__() methods with update behavior.  So, the technique is
> perfectly general and worth remembering.

>>> from collections import deque
>>> a = [1,2,3]
>>> b = deque(a)
>>> b.__init__([2,3])
>>> b
deque([1, 2, 3, 2, 3])          *deque: update
>>> c = [1,2,3]
>>> c.__init__([4,5])
>>> c
[4, 5]                          *list: replace 
>>> g = set([1, 2, 3])
>>> g.__init__([4, 5, 6])
>>> g
set([4, 5, 6])
>>> g.__init__(set([7, 8, 9]))
>>> g
set([8, 9, 7])                  *set: replace, not update
>>> g.__init__([10, 11, 12])
>>> g
set([10, 11, 12])               *set: replace, not update
>>> h = {'a':1}
>>> h.__init__(b=2)
>>> h
{'a': 1, 'b': 2}                *dict: update

general, but inconsistent.  Hard to remember IMHO.

> Idioms and Obscurity
> --------------------
> Using a=constructor(b) for copying and a.__init__(arg) for updates
> may seem obscure until they become standard idioms.  In time, I think
> they seem more general and less cryptic than the older copy and
> replace idioms, a=b[:] and a[:]=b.

These are a generalization of slicing notation.  Why learn two
notations?  __init__ is rather ugly, and doesn't always "initialize".

-- 
KBK


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Mar 20 20:28:14 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:28:14 +0100
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405cefb6$0$120$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote:

>from random import Random
>from struct import unpack
>import md5
>
>class MD5Random(Random):
>    def random(self,    tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53):
>        plaintxt = str(Random.getrandbits(self, 128))
>        ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()
>        randint = unpack('<Q', ciphertxt[:8])[0] >> 11  # grab 53 bits
>        return randint * tofloat


I wonder why it is necessary to do the bit twiddling once one has
chosen to multiply by a fraction instead of directly putting the bits
inside a float. If 1.0 / 2**53 is just some arbitrary value (and why
not: A floats' smallest value is a lot smaller than that?) then we can
generate integers of other sizes and divide them by other floats, for
example:

from random import Random
import md5

class MD5Random(Random):

    def random(self, tofloat = 1.0/2**128, prf = md5.new()):
        prf.update(repr(Random.random(self)))
        return int(prf.hexdigest(),16) * tofloat

def test():
    random = MD5Random().random
    for i in range(10):
        print random()
        
if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

Anton


From marer at videotron.ca  Fri Mar  5 11:18:04 2004
From: marer at videotron.ca (Eric Martel)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:18:04 GMT
Subject: Help needed with gettext.install
Message-ID: <0L12c.109944$2g.52298@charlie.risq.qc.ca>


Hi,

I'm using Mandrake Cooker and just upgraded Python to 2.3.3.

A Python-based program I use often is Pybliographer; since the Python 
update, I get the following error when trying to start Pybliographer:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/bin/pybliographer", line 40, in ?
     gettext.install (progname, localedir, unicode = True)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'install'

I don't know much about Python, but here is a Python session from the 
shell (for which I was inspired by something I found on Google):

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import gettext
 >>> gettext.__dict__['textdomain']
<function textdomain at 0x403f7cdc>
 >>> gettext.__dict__['install']
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
KeyError: 'install'

So it really looks like the 'install' method is not available for the 
object 'gettext', while the method 'textdomain' is. I talked about it on 
a Cooker list, but no one was aware of what could cause this problem 
(and I was apparently the only one to experience it), so I'm asking to 
you guys: do you know what could be missing/wrong on my system to cause 
such an error?

Thank you!

-- 
Eric Martel
Sainte-Foy (Qu?bec)
Canada
Clef publique OpenPGP: ED3F191C (http://key.ericmartel.net/)

Copyleft 2004 Eric Martel
(http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/)
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From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 16:25:53 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:25:53 -0700
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.279.1079027533.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com> <c2ro0h$2sn$1@news.tue.nl>
	<opr4rlubpyh5525a@news.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <40522A99.90D8D49B@pobox.com>

Eugene Van den Bulke  wrote:
> I have a probleme with the "if idlelib" solution ... without the 
> root.mainloop() the window does not appear after I pressed F5 to run the 
> programm. But when I type root.mainloop() in the shell window that opens 
> up, it works.

That sounds like your IDLE is running your program in a subprocess,
which means that it can't share IDLE's mainloop.  See the followup I posted.

In a subprocess, you can just have root.mainloop() at the end of your
program unconditionally, but this prevents any communication back to the
main IDLE process - your program works fine, but you can't inspect it.
	Jason Harper


From spiritofgg at free.fr  Sun Mar 28 04:10:52 2004
From: spiritofgg at free.fr (Spiritofgg)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:10:52 +0200
Subject: windows ce
Message-ID: <4066969e$0$5634$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,
Does anybody know if there is an implementation of python on windows ce?




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 10 08:05:28 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:05:28 -0600
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <7id67l8dro.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7id67l8dro.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <20040310130528.GB25066@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 01:36:11PM +0800, Isaac To wrote:
> In Python, function calls and returns are actually quite slow (because they
> has to allocate a dictionary)---just like everything else.

Are you certain that calling a function allocates a dictionary?  A
function's locals are stored as indices in a C array unless a function
uses bare exec.  I'm not sure what a dictionary is needed for.

Jeff



From pwatson at redlinec.com  Wed Mar  3 16:53:18 2004
From: pwatson at redlinec.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:53:18 -0600
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>


"GrelEns" <grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr> wrote in message
news:40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce at news.free.fr...
> hello,
>
> having a list like ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'] i would like to get
>
> [['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'],
> ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'],
> ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c','-', 'd']]
>
> that is adding successively an item between at all the available place,
and
> i just can't get my brain doing that :(
>
> thank a lot if you could help...

Does this look like it would work?

alist = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
nlist = range(len(alist) - 1)
finallist = []

for x in range(2 ** (len(alist) - 1)):
    if x == 0:  continue    #remove this if you want one with no dashes
    rlist = [alist[0]]
    for y in nlist:
        if x & (1 << y):  rlist.append('-')
        rlist.append(alist[y + 1])
    finallist.append(rlist)
    del rlist

print finallist


$ ./listins.py
[['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'], ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b', '-',
'c', 'd'], ['a', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a',
'-', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'], ['a', '-', 'b',
'-', 'c', '-', 'd']]




From michael at foord.net  Fri Mar 26 03:47:47 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 00:47:47 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
References: <mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403220021.db39215@posting.google.com>
	<fc91898a.0403250748.5ceb5a41@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403260047.1b7b339@posting.google.com>

wcarus at comcast.net (Win Carus) wrote in message news:<fc91898a.0403250748.5ceb5a41 at posting.google.com>...
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in message news:<8089854e.0403220021.db39215 at posting.google.com>...
> > "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > > Fuzzyman wrote:

[snip..]

> > > 
> > 
> > Thanks for your reply, it was both helpful and interesting.
> > Unfortunately it only confirmed my suspicion that what I wanted to do
> > wasn't possible :-(
> > 
> > The database 'module' I'm using (which is basically fine for my other
> > purposes) does searches through it's records using regular
> > expressions. A full search through 1800 records (each record can be a
> > couple of k of text) takes about 0.2 seconds - which is fine.... but
> > doing 4 or 5 searches and comparing results *isn't* (0.2 seconds delay
> > is ok - 0.8-1.0 seconds isn't).... So I'm currently just searching for
> > the longest word - KirbBase then returns the full *text* of each song
> > containing that word... and I'm just checking each song to see if it
> > has the other words :-)
> > 
> > This works fine, isn't noticeably slow, but isn't as elegant as I'd
> > hoped...
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> > 
> > > 
> > > HTCYTIRABM!
> > > 
> > > Robert Brewer
> > > MIS
> > > Amor Ministries
> > > fumanchu at amor.org
> 
> Hi Fuzzyman.
> 
> The heuristic solution you've come up with (i.e, searching using the
> longest term and then filtering/ranking the results against the
> remaining terms) is in fact quite well founded in practice.  Many
> years ago, Miller and Newman determined that there are two
> length-frequency statistical patterns in written English, one for
> content words and another for function words. The content-word pattern
> is regular and demonstrates a very strong inverse relationship between
> word length and word frequency (i.e., the longer the word, the less
> frequent). There are, of course, many exceptions, but the pattern is
> very strong; and there are interesting information theoretic arguments
> why this makes sense (if you accept that human languages operate to
> minimize the costs of communication). In the absence of statistics
> collected on your specific body of text, this is a very useful crutch.
> 
> Miller, George A. and Edwin B. Newman. 1958. "Tests of a Statistical
> Explanation of the Rank-Frequency Relation for Word in Written
> English." American Journal of Psychology (71): 209-258.
> 
> Miller, George A., E. B. Newman, and E. A. Friedman. 1958.
> "Length-Frequency Statistics for Written English." Information and
> Control (1): 370-389.
> 
> On the other hand, it is also possible to (a) identify the full set of
> candidate search terms available (this would allow you to fail quickly
> on search terms that can't be found); and (b) determine their
> frequencies (this would allow you to search for terms in inverse
> frequency, if that's what you really want). Creating an inverted index
> is, of course, a possibility, but text search is so fast and,
> furthermore, you don't have the complexities of creating and
> maintaining the index itself.  Wu and Manber, the developers of the
> 'agrep' tool (which uses some really fancy and powerful partial
> matching techniques and is used by the Glimpse and Webglimpse search
> engines), have argued precisely this point.
> 
> Sun Wu and Udi Manber: Fast Text Searching Allowing Errors.
> Communications of the ACM, pp. 83-91, Vol. 35, No. 10, Oct. 1992, USA.
> 
> Sun Wu and Udi Manber: AGREP - A Fast Approximate Pattern-matching
> Tool. Proceedings of the Winter 1992 USENIX Conference San Francisco,
> USA, 20.-24. Jan. 1992, pp. 153-162, Berkeley, USA, 1991.
> 
> Udi Manber and Sun Wu: Approximate Pattern Matching. BYTE pp. 281-292,
> November 1992.
> 
> There is a Python port of agrep available as a module called 'agrepy'
> at the following site:
> 
> http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~mw263/pyagrep.html
> 
> As noted in an earlier post, regexes alone can't do what you want.
> There are other techniques that might do what you're looking for, for
> example, Aho-Corasick (and some other) automata.  Aho-Corasick
> automata are able to 'parallelize' pattern matching so that multiple
> strings can be matched against a text in a single pass. Aho-Corasick
> automata are easy to implement in both their deterministic and
> non-deterministic forms in Python.
> 
> Aho, A., and Corasick, M. Efficient String Matching: An Aid to
> Bibliographic Search. Commun. ACM 18, 6 (June 1975), 333--340.
> 
> http://www-sr.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~buehler/AC/html/Automaton.html
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Win


Interesting - and thanks for your help.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 25 10:25:06 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:25:06 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>

"Shane Hathaway" <shane at zope.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list at python.org...
> In thinking about PEP 318, I came across an idea that might be worth
> pursuing further.  It goes deeper than PEP 318, so it would need its own
> PEP.

[snip]

One reason no one has responded is that this (at least
the def part) is a very old suggestion that most of us are
bone weary of discussing to death. Also, a lot of the
usual suspects are away at PyCon.

I don't believe there is any major resistance to having
some form of code block to replace the lambda expression.
The major problem is the syntax; as you can see from the
discussion of PEP318 (and 308 if you remember back that
far) having a good syntax is very important to Python
development.

If you can make a contribution to a good syntax for
a code block, I for one would welcome it.

Just to give you a start: Ruby puts a single code block
at the end of the parameter list where it's quite obvious
what it is and where it does not interrupt the flow of reading
the method call. In python, I'd like to be able to put code
blocks wherever I can currently put a function / method
object.

For example:

result = map(lambda: ..., list1, list2, list3)

is readable - barely.

result = map(def (x, y, z):
                      something
                      something else
                      return
                  list1, list2, list3)

becomes much less readable. This is the problem that
needs to be solved to make code blocks fly.

John Roth




From glingl at aon.at  Thu Mar  4 14:47:11 2004
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:47:11 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <c280b0$1g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at> <c280b0$1g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <404787BF.9030203@aon.at>



Peter Otten schrieb:
> Gregor Lingl wrote:
> 
> I think you do not understand. The change from
> 
> key in theDict # old style would be theDict.has_key(key)
> 
> to
> 
> # iterkeys() can sometimes be used to avoid the creation of 
> # the list with all keys, you would have to introduce a for loop.
> # But keys vs iterkeys is not the relevant difference here
> key in theDict.keys()                       
> 
Ah, yes, I didn't think of this. This is indeed nearly as
fast as key in dict.

> changes the lookup from constant time (a hash value is calculated which is
> used as an index into a list of values if all goes well) to proportonial to
> len(theDict) because on average half of the list has to be searched before
> the matching entry is found.
Yes, this is what I meant in my first posting

Thanks
Gregor
> 
> Peter


From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Mar 12 12:58:43 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:58:43 GMT
Subject: A GOTO example (was question: numarray c extension...)
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c2ss14$dp0$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc53sud.v6f.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c2ss14$dp0$2 at news.service.uci.edu>, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> It is arbitrarily trivial to convert it to use an error boolean.

No, it isn't, as evidenced by the fact that you did it wrong.

> static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
> {
>      PyObject   *okernel,...;
>      PyArrayObject *kernel = NULL;
>      bool error = 0;
> 
>      if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...)) {
>          PyErr_Format(_convolveError,
>                      "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");
>          error = 1;
>      }

       if (!error) {
>      kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
>      if (!kernel...) {
>          PyErr_Format( _convolveError,
>                   "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
>          error = 1;
>      }
       }

       if (!error) {
>      ...more stuff...
       }

>      if (!error) {
>          Py_XDECREF(kernel)
>          return the result
>      } else {
>          Py_XDECREF(kernel)
>          return NULL;
>      }
> }

You have to remember to check the error variable at every step in the
function, or use else clauses and deal with heavy nesting.  This is a
perfect situation for GOTO.

Joe


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 12 14:05:55 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:05:55 -0800
Subject: overloading __getattr__ and inheriting from dict
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561ED9@opus.amorhq.net>

Beno?t Dejean wrote:
> class TargetWrapper(dict):
> 
>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>         dict.__init__(self, kwargs)
> 
>     __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
>     __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
>     __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__
> 
> then 
> 
> tw = TargetWrapper()
> tw.a = "spam" # ok
> del tw.a # ok
> tw.b = "egg"
> print tw.b
> 
> last line give me an
> AttributeError: 'TargetWrapper' object has no attribute 'b'
> 
> if i define
> 
>     def __getitem__(self, name):
>         return dict.__getitem__(self, name)
> 
>     __getattr__ = __getitem__
> 
> then the accessing the b attribute is ok. what's wrong ?

Not sure (analysis is too much for my tiny brain right now), but why don't you try:

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return self[name]

That's the "usual" way to override __getattr__.

FuManChu



From garryknight at gmx.net  Tue Mar 16 17:26:32 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:26:32 +0000
Subject: Dictionary & data
References: <mqK5c.22047$8G2.9439@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1079475979.24696.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>

In message <mqK5c.22047$8G2.9439 at fe3.columbus.rr.com>, kbass wrote:

> I have retrieved data from a database and I want to place this data into a
> dictionary or something like a HashMap (in Java).  Can someone point me to
> an example?

Here's most of what you'll need to handle dictionaries:

d1 = {}                         # create empty dictionary
d2 = {"one": 1, "two": "two", 3: "three"} # create and populate dictionary
d3 = {1: 'spam', {'a': 'b'}}    # nesting
d2["two"] = 42                  # adding, changing
d3[1]['a'] = 'c'                # changing value in nested dictionary
x = d2['two']                   # fetch using index
y = d3[1]['a']                  # fetch from nested dictionaries
cnt = len(d2)                   # get no. of key/value pairs
del d2[3]                       # remove key/value
for k in d2.keys():             # loop over keys
for v in d2.values():           # loop over values
for k,v in d2.items():          # loop over key/value pairs
d = d2.keys; d.sort()           # get sorted list of keys

It's probably a good idea to work your way through the tutorial here:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/tut/tut.html

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From wrcousert at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 23:03:09 2004
From: wrcousert at yahoo.com (Bootstrap Bill)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:03:09 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>


"Claudio Puviani" <puviani at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275 at news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> "Bootstrap Bill" <wrcousert at yahoo.com> wrote
> >
> > "Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> wrote in message
> > news:404675da at news.tce.com...
> > > Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will
tell
> > > you someplace that it is still in active use.
> >
> > Radio Shack Level I BASIC?
>
> Nope. I have a TRS-80 Model I with Level I BASIC in my mini-museum.
Granted, the
> only "use" is to show friends that it still works, but it's still a form
of use.
> :-)
>
> Claudio Puviani
>
I was 15 when I got my first computer, a 4k TRS-80 Model I with Level I
BASIC, cassette tape for storage. It was several years before I could afford
a system with a floppy drive, let alone a hard drive.. I spent nearly all my
free time for months teaching myself BASIC programing, mostly trial and
error. The book that came with my Model I was a great introduction to
programming.

My 13 year old niece wants to learn programming. What's the best
introductory language for her?




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Mar 14 09:37:01 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:37:01 +0100
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20040314143701.GB2737@nl.linux.org>

Bart Nessux wrote:
> 
> Yes, I know it isn't. It's not very graceful at all, but I must do it. 
> Whether I use a baseball bat from a distance of 1 meter to strike a 
> computer monitor or use a sniper rifle from 400 meters away to shoot the 
> monitor, the result is the same. Currently, this is a kludge (the baseball 
> bat approach)... I'm trying to make it more graceful.

I think there is a better way.

Create a very small binary program which does only an exec of python
with this script as argument. Let this program be Setuid. Let the python
script have permissions 600. This way, people will be able to execute
the script without reading it, and they won't be able to see the root
password.

A risk is, however, in the path inside the c program, because the
program runs as root. If a user is able to fool the program, they will
be root as well.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 14/03 13:55 UTC:
	12.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 10.3 m/s SSW (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Mar  2 01:53:10 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:53:10 +0100
Subject: Jython Debugger?
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c21b0h$2re$1@newshispeed.ch>

I'm looking for such a thing too. All I've found so far is an announcement
of an Eclipse plugin.

Regards
Franz GEIGER

"max khesin" <max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:jkL0c.94$c73.143227 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Hi all,
> I was takling to someone who has been using Jython for a while. Their
> biggest complaint is the luck of a good debugger. I was really
> surprised. Isn't there anything decent out there?
> thanks,
> max




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Mar  6 17:53:12 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Mar 2004 22:53:12 +0000
Subject: Examples of using the html parser
References: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <871xo5d1uv.fsf@pobox.com>

Boogie El Aceitoso <frr149 at telefonica.net> writes:

> Were can I find examples of the usege of the html parser class?

Simpler to use, for simple cases:

http://wwwsearch.sf.net/pullparser/


Note that the example in the tarball that does something like

try:
    parser.get_compressed_text(endat=("endtag", "a"))
except NoMoreTokensError:
    ...

Is out of date: .get_text() and .get_compressed_text() now return an
empty string instead.


John


From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Thu Mar 25 08:12:19 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:12:19 +0100
Subject: strptime in 2.3.3 
Message-ID: <OF745139A0.3C94DDF4-ONC1256E62.0047ADCF@lbbw.sko.de>


Andy writes:
Folks,

I am parsing a list of directories that have a name format
'YearWeekNoDay', using the follwoing code

            print list_dir[j]
            print "%s" % (time.strptime (list_dir[j], '%Y%U%w'))
            ttuple = time.strptime (list_dir[j], '%Y%U%w')
            year   = ttuple[0]
            month  = ttuple[1]
            day    = ttuple[2]
            print day, month, year

I get the following output:

2004123
(2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, -1)
1 1 2004

2004124
(2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, -1)
1 1 2004

====

Are you sure you are using the correct format string?
%U is week number of year [00-53], so I am not sure what happens
if you combine that with a day of month that surely is not in this week..

Cheers
 Holger

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From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 05:42:22 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:42:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <B0F60981-74CE-11D8-B7A7-000A95909800@cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040315104222.13569.qmail@web8312.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
wrote: > 
> On 13 Mar 2004, at 08:07, Premshree Pillai wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed,
> and
> > so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use
> strict
> > vars" pragma to force variable declaration.
> 
> I'm no Perler ... but by reading a bit of
> documentation, I get the 
> impression that you are a bit confused about what
> "use strict 'vars'" 
> really does. It seems to be some mish-mash of
> concepts: it imposes the 
> necessity to fully qualify names, to declare (the
> existence, not the 
> type of) variables with "our", and does some control
> of scoping rules.
> 

Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
typing, I think. Static typing has to do with explicit
declaration (initialization) of variables (and not of
variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily bound
to a particular type.

So, Python is dynamically typed, and also strongly
typed...as opposed to statically typed and strongly
typed like in C/C++ (casting notwithstanding).

> Whatever it does, it seems that "use strict 'vars'"
> has absolutely 
> nothing to do with static typing.
> 
> So, I must ask you the same question as I asked
> Peter: "what do you 
> understand 'static typing' to mean?"
> 
> > Is there something like it in Python?
> 
> No.
> 
> > Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> > important requirement in a language?
> 
> No. Absolutely not. I think that an important
> requirement in a language 
> is that it NOT *force* variable declaration.
> (Optional declaration is 
> fine.)
> 
> I do think that it is an important requirement in a
> language that test 
> suites be easily written in it. I also think that it
> is an important 
> requirement of developers that they write
> comprehensive test suites as 
> they develop their software. The test suites will
> catch ALL SORTS of 
> errors (including those resulting from type errors).
> Static type 
> systems, OTOH, catch only one, minor, class of
> errors (type errors), 
> and do so at great cost.
> 
> Static typing catches even those type "errors" which
> would in no way 
> prevent the program from running correctly.
> (Implicit static typing 
> systems are much better in this respect than
> manifest ones.)
> 
> Static typing makes the language more inflexible,
> and makes it much 
> more difficult to run incomplete programs. Why would
> I want to run an 
> incomplete program? Well, during the *whole*
> development phase, a 
> program is incomplete. Just think about that for a
> minute. And I would 
> certainly like to run my programs during development
> to test them.
> 
> Your average C++ programmer is so happy when the
> compiler eventually 
> complies his program without errors (even though it
> may signal 300 
> warnings), that he is convinced that the program is
> correct. "I 
> Suffered so much, and fixed so many errors to get
> this far. If the 
> compiler, which is so pedantic and spotted all those
> errors, can't spot 
> any more, then surely there _aren't_ any more errors
> in my program." 
> And he thinks he has finished. He hasn't been able
> to run any tests so 
> far (this is the first time that the program has
> complied), so the 
> program is almost guaranteed to be bug-infested, but
> the thought of 
> writing a test-suite at this point (if it would
> cross his mind - it 
> won't; the complier has already told him that his
> program is 
> error-free) would be so frightening that he would
> quickly dismiss it. 
> If, however, he did try to write a test suite, then
> the third bug he'd 
> find, would motivate him to make a tiny change which
> would make the 
> static typing system reject his _whole_ program. He
> would then notice 
> that the static type system forces a whole chain of
> changes upon him, 
> extending into parts of the program which are in no
> way related to the 
> part which he is actually trying to test, before
> allowing him to run 
> the program again, in order to check that his fix
> works. That chain of 
> changes would, of course, set off new chains of
> changes along its way, 
> and those chains ... you get the picture.
> 
> I think that manifest static typing systems are
> great way of slowing 
> down development, and ensuring less (sic) correct
> programs.
> 
> Variable declarations are usually just noise, which
> obfuscate the 
> program, and make it a pain to write.
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Tue Mar 30 11:08:50 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:08:50 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040330170850.682da71b.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:58:58 -0500
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Rebooted.  No wxPython apps run first.  Clicked on Demo icon and said
> "one thousand and wuh--" and the splash banner appeared.  Run it again
> and I get as far as "one thou--", so clearly there is some difference
> between the two and it's not pilot error.

I just wrote the following simple script:

-------------------------------------------------
#!/software/python/python2.2.2/linux/bin/python
import time
startTime = time.time()
from wxPython.wx import *
print "Time:",time.time()-startTime
-------------------------------------------------

On running multiple times, I get the following outputs:

Time: 4.60863804817
Time: 3.26165890694
Time: 3.24744296074
Time: 3.26767706871
Time: 3.25304102898

Definately something going on here..... going to try a reboot....

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From no at spam.invalid  Thu Mar  4 15:42:42 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:42:42 -0800
Subject: [Numeric] why is Float32 incorrect for ufuncs?
References: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <c284ca$ovi$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <404757b9$1 at maser.urz.unibas.ch>,
 Curzio Basso <curzio.basso at unibas.ch> wrote:

>Hello everyone,
>
>I am a beginner with Numerical Python, and there is a thing I do not 
>understand in the behaviour of the ufuncs. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
>
>Why is the following not working?
>
> >>> import Numeric
> >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32)
> >>> a
>array([[ 1.,  1.],
>        [ 1.,  1.]],'f')
> >>> a/=2
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: return array has incorrect type
>
>If I use Numeric.Float64 as typecode everything works fine, but I do not 
>understand why is this needed.

As another poster noted, the division is probably casting the result up 
to python float type (which, if true, corresponds to Float64), and the 
error comes from trying to reassign that result to the original array.

I suggest you try numarray (the planned replacement for Numeric; it is 
similar enough that you will probably not have to change your code and 
it handles casting better.

>>> import numarray
>>> a = numarray.ones((2,2), numarray.Float32)
>>> a
array([[ 1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.]], type=Float32)
>>> a/= 2
>>> a
array([[ 0.5,  0.5],
       [ 0.5,  0.5]], type=Float32)

-- Russell


From me at privacy.net  Tue Mar 23 01:19:12 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Washu)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:19:12 GMT
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.23.06.19.09.877584@privacy.net>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:06:27 +0100, Patrick Useldinger wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.
> Regards,
> -pu

I've noticed that OpenBSD has a current and stable ports version.  If you
stick with stable, you may wait for a bit for the ports maintainer to
upgrade to the next version.

Also, if you didn't install X11 when you installed OpenBSD and you try to
install Python from ports, it tries to install tcl, which tries to
eventually install X11.  You need to use 'flavors' to install a non-GUI
python version.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:55:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:55:00 -0800
Subject: Simulate socket with files or stdin/stdout
In-Reply-To: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c4fluo$1tc$1@news.service.uci.edu>

[
> Now my question is, if someone has done something similar and can give me
> some hints where to start, what to look for etc. Maybe someone even has
> another idea how to solve this problem.
> 
> A skript that does something similar like "netcat" would be a good starting
> point, since I'm really new to python programming.
> 
> The script should be usable on the MAC, PC and UNIX platform.

On OSX and *nix, you'll have no problems using stdin and stdout for 
communication with Python (I don't know about Modula2).  In Windows, 
you're going to have a few issues with stdin and stdout, but there are 
workarounds using pywin32.

On OSX and *nix, you'll have no problems using files for communicating 
with Python.  In Windows, files can't be used as pipes like they are in 
*nix, so this isn't even an option.

I'd say try for stdin/stdout, and check out the documentation on doing 
stdin and stdout with pywin32.

  - Josiah


From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Thu Mar  4 17:10:34 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 22:10:34 GMT
Subject: Two newby's questions
References: <mailman.45.1077640558.8594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc4faaq.2elv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Marcello Pietrobon <teiffel at attglobal.net>
wrote on Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:35:48 -0500:
> python really looks a great language.
> I wish C++ would have some of them !
> Here the questions
> 1)
> I preferred to use the newsgroup but the server
>    comp.lang.python / c.l.python ( as it appears with Mozilla ) looks down !
> Am I doing something worng or the link from the python.org pages
> http://www.python.org/community/lists.html
> does not work ?

  You should read the USENET FAQs to learn the difference between a
newsgroup and a server.  In short: comp.lang.python is a newsgroup.  It
is not a server, it's just a bunch of articles that are passed around
between news servers.  Your ISP probably has a news server that carries
comp.lang.python.

> 2)
> Is there a place where there are very small code snippets so a person 
> can quicly use and learn Python ?

  <http://www.uselesspython.com/>

> 3)
> Under http://py.vaults.ca
> I found code under GPL license so I don't know if I can use some lines 
> of code extracted from code I've found over there, for other open source 
> code.

  Only for other GPL code; once you use any GPL code in your project, it
must be released under GPL.  Not to start that flamewar again, but
that's why the GPL is called a virus, and why you should avoid touching
code that is only released under the GPL.  True open source licenses
like BSD, MIT, Apache, and Python's own license allow code to be reused
for any purpose.  At most you might have to acknowledge credit, which
decent people should do anyway.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." -Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly


From dfh at forestfield.co.uk  Fri Mar 19 05:58:00 2004
From: dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Problem using smtplib.SMTP in a CGI program
Message-ID: <memo.20040319105838.852D@forestfield.cix.co.uk>

I wonder if anyone can help me resolve this problem. Although my ISP (One 
and One) provides the facility to run Python 2.2 CGI programs, their 
technical support people don't seem to have any Python expertise.

I am trying to run Gypsymail.py as a CGI program from a web form. It is 
nearly all working, except for the part that I have reduced to the 
following code:

#!/usr/bin/python
# the line above must contain the path to Python on your web server
import sys, os, smtplib

sys.stderr = sys.stdout

print "Content-Type: Text/plain"
print
print 'Test SMTP connection'
smtp_host =  'auth.smtp.oneandone.co.uk'
print 'SMTPhost = %s' % smtp_host
server = smtplib.SMTP(smtp_host)
print 'server = %s' % repr(server)
## server.login(user, password)
server.sendmail('me at foresoft.co.uk', ['you at forestfield.co.uk'], 'Hello')
server.quit()


which produces the following output:

Test SMTP connection
SMTPhost = auth.smtp.oneandone.co.uk
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/homepages/40/d69667106/htdocs/cgi-bin/test_smtp.cgi", line 13, in 
?
    server = smtplib.SMTP(smtp_host)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/smtplib.py", line 234, in __init__
    (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/smtplib.py", line 283, in connect
    raise socket.error, msg
socket.error: (111, 'Connection refused')

The value of SMTPhost is the one my ISP adviced me to use, it is an 
authenticated server requiring a user name and password and I can access 
it using Microsoft Outlook Express without difficulty.

With thanks for any help.
Regards,

David Hughes
Forestfield Software Ltd
www.forestfield.co.uk


From p.a.rubini at cranfield.ac.uk  Tue Mar 30 03:46:15 2004
From: p.a.rubini at cranfield.ac.uk (Philip Rubini)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:46:15 +0100
Subject: Nodenet availability ?
References: <40645179$1@news.cranfield.ac.uk>
	<c42937$ejr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <406933d6$1@news.cranfield.ac.uk>

Thanks to those who sent me a copy by email - and I never thought of looking
in archive.org !

Phil.


"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c42937$ejr$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
> Archive.org is your friend:
>
http://web.archive.org/web/20020603234703/http://matt.kimball.net/nodenet.html
>
>
> > I am looking for NodeNet (see the announcement below originally posted a
> > year or so ago), which would appear to fit my requirements almost
exactly.
> > f. Unfortunately the link is dead. Is anyone aware if the code announced
by
> > Matt is available anywhere ? Matt are you there ?
> >
> >>...................
> >
> > I've released NodeNet 1.0beta2.  Changes from the previous version
include:
> >
> > *  Both the network editing control and the node drag window manage
> >    their own scrollbars if their data is too big to be entirely visible
> >    at once.
> > *  In the network editing control, you can drag out a selection box
> >    to easily select multiple nodes at once.
> > *  Rendering in the Eye Candy demo application is faster.
> >
> > You can get the latest version, Windows binaries and online
documentation
> > at http://matt.kimball.net/nodenet.html
> >




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar 30 17:29:14 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:29:14 +1000
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536142@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)
>
> Whilst I (obviously) agree entirely about top-posting, the
> above statement also applies to post HTML Gerrit ... ;)

And the irony here is that whilst Outlook *said* I was replying in plain text, it *meant* I was replying in HTML :(

I have no idea what it's going to do to this email, so don't blame me.

Tim Delaney

From H.Duerer at gmx.net  Mon Mar 22 15:22:14 2004
From: H.Duerer at gmx.net (Holger Duerer)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:22:14 +0000
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <mailman.172.1079731437.742.python-list@python.org>
	<87oeqpaqih.fsf@Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>
	<5d83790c.0403221047.2db9a9a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87k71cbpjd.fsf@Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>

>>>>> "Raymond" == Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> writes:
  [...]
 
    >> I don't know what getrandbits does exactly.  But if it uses the
    >> normal PRNG code, doesn't that mean that your plaintext still
    >> has only 32 bits of entropy?  I.e. if you want to do an
    >> inversion lookup table, you would only have to calculate the
    >> 2^32 possible outcomes of this call and not all 2^128
    >> theoretically possible ones?

    Raymond> genrandbits() pulls as many bits as requested out of the
    Raymond> underlying generator.  The Mersenne Twister carries 624
    Raymond> words of internal state (about 20000 bits) so it is
    Raymond> capable of supplying all the bits needed for this
    Raymond> application.

    Raymond> So, yes, the plaintext will span the 2^128 possibilities.

Well, I am aware that the state is larger.  But my understanding from
a quick glance at the code was that you seed it with only an unsigned
long (automatically done with time(NULL) for you if you don't provide
a seed -- even worse at it reduces the search space dramatically).

So when assuming the worst-case scenario, namely that you instantiate
a new object of your class right at the beginning of the program (or
at some determinate other point, but not at some undetermined other
point, when other components have already stirred the twister's stated
by an unknown amount) then the call to getrandbits can only produce
2^32 different outcomes, right?

     Holger


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Tue Mar 30 13:24:43 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:24:43 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4ba4d$i9g$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.30.18.24.42.389798@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:11:55 +0800, Phipps Xue wrote:

> pyGTK is also a good GUI frameworks but it's not available now for windows
> platform. I suppose it's its most important shortage.

???
I'm using it to develop a linux/windows app.
And it works.

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Mar  8 11:59:43 2004
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:59:43 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548 at posting.google.com>,
 jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1) wrote:

> "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote in message 
> news:<UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> > Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> > (untested examples in C++)
> > 
> > (1) deeply nested loops
> > 
> > for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> > for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> > for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
> >     if (/* some test */) goto END;
> > 
> > END: /* continue */;
> > 
> > and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> > 
> > BEGIN:
> > for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
> >     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;
> > 
> > What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
> > 'goto' command?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> 
> Step away from the computer slowly . . .
> 
> There is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to use GOTO in any modern
> language, ESPECIALLY Python, EVER!
> 
> No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.


Bull.  I've used goto's in similar cases as those presented.  I have 
found that in the right cases they are quite readable.  Never had a 
problem with them when used like this.

So you didn't answer the question, how would you do this clearly in 
Python?

-- Lou Pecora
     My views are my own.
"The Blues got pregnant, and they called the baby Rock 'n Roll" 
    - Muddy Waters


From shrom at admin.zzn.com  Tue Mar  2 10:14:36 2004
From: shrom at admin.zzn.com (Shrom)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:14:36 +0100
Subject: how to get EXIF data from a jpg
References: <c22076$1f5b$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <4044a4de$0$28631$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"leo" <halloleo at nospam.myrealbox.com> a ?crit dans le message de
news:c22076$1f5b$1 at otis.netspace.net.au...
> hi there
>
> how can i get in python EXIF data (particularky the shouuting time) of a
> jpg?
>
> is there a special module around?
>
> thanks, leo

There is a nice EXIF Python module here :
http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/11/13/exif




From bogus at bogus.net  Thu Mar 11 20:55:30 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:55:30 GMT
Subject: 2D List comprehension & replace
References: <YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <mM84c.5095$u_5.4589@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
news:ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA at comcast.com...
> I should not have given up so soon.
>
> [[y or None for y in x] for x in l]
>
> seems to do the trick.
>
> -Larry Bates
>

Well if that works, then this must too:

     [y or None for x in l for y in x]

-- Paul


>
> "Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
> news:YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA at comcast.com...
> > I've gone brain-dead trying to get this to work
> > using list comprehensions.  I have a list of lists
> > like the following:
> >
> > l=[[92.6, 0, 93.5],
> >    [94.7, 95.6, 95.7],
> >    [91.2, 92.1, 93.0]]
> >
> > what I want is a new list
> > with the zero (0) replaced with None.
> >
> > I thought I would use the fact that the command:
> >
> > 0 or None
> >
> > seems to return None.
> >
> > This procedural code does the trick, but I just
> > know it can be done with a single list comprehension.
> >
> > tol=[]
> > for a in l:
> >     til=[]
> >     for v in a:
> >         if a != 0: til.append(v)
> >         else:      til.append(None)
> >
> >     tol.append(til)
> >
> > l=tol
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Larry Bates
> >
> >
>
>




From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar 13 13:13:56 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:13:56 +0100
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files
	inthe Directory
References: <mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40534f51$0$15634$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

look at the execfile( filename[, globals[, locals]])

command in de manpages

or the following
           execl( path, arg0, arg1, ...)

      execle( path, arg0, arg1, ..., env)

      execlp( file, arg0, arg1, ...)

      execlpe( file, arg0, arg1, ..., env)

      execv( path, args)

      execve( path, args, env)

      execvp( file, args)

      execvpe( file, args, env)


Use the other examples to iterate
-- 
Cheerz,
Ivo.
http://IvoNet.nl


============================
"Shalen chhabra" <shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Hey,
>
> Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the
files
> in the directory.
> For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python
program
> against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python
code
> instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be
cumbersome
> giving the argv of each file every single time.
>
> This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a
> flavour of python for this.
>
> Thanks
> Shalen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1!
> (Limited-time Offer)
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
>
>




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 21:32:14 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:32:14 -0000
Subject: Appreciation for the importance of readability (was: Choosing
	Perl/Python for my particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106ce9eaed1sk61@corp.supernews.com>

In article <40657D14.3FBE7E82 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
		[various stuff about
		freeware, VNC, ...
		that no longer seems
		urgent]
			.
			.
>Python.  I've tried to read my own C++ code after half a
>year, and have gained a new appreciation for the importance
>of readability.  So I'm still fine-tuning my idea of
>adequate commenting.  Since I'm working on my thesis rather
>than commercial code, I don't have large amounts of generic
>C++ library code.  Just a big-ish heap of routines/functions
>for the problem that I'm investigating, as the algorithms
>that I choose to try morph.
>
>My impression is that you think Python would be more
>appropriate for my situation.  Just wondering if you can
>comment on the merit of having lots of Perl code around.  It
>seems to be prevelant in a digital design tool environment.
>It may not matter all that much to me right now, but it
>would be nice to be on the same wavelength as others if I
>find myself in a team situation.  As I mentioned, there have
			.
			.
			.
Some scientists are very successful with "slash-and-burn"
techniques.  That manifests itself in this area as "con-
science-free" coding:  they write whatever programs get
them the results they're after, and don't care that no
one else can reproduce their results, nor can they them-
selves, six months later.  A LOT of that goes on.

It makes me uncomfortable.  A lesson I've learned over
and over is that computer programs live far longer than
you expect.  It pays to do 'em better at the beginning,
'cause you're likely to live with them quite a while.

I'm not a successful scientist, though; odds are long
against me ever being one.

Being "on the same wavelength" is yet another of the
dualities you face.  It has its advantages.  So does
leadership in establishing new and better ways.  You 
might never know which is the right choice.  Most cer-
tain is that *you* are the one who'll live with the
choices you make.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 21:24:11 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:24:11 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4059084B.33CB382F@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> Lastly, using my redefinition of "is", we have the following nice
> property for all objects a and b (mutable or immutable):
> 
>  a is b  iff  in any code block not containing "id()" or "is", any
>               (or all) occurrances of a can be replaced by b, with
>               identical results
> 
> In the current implementation, the above equivalence only holds if we
> remove "not containing id() or is", and then the statement becomes a
> mere tautology without nutritious value.

I'm at a loss to understand why you want to change the behavior of the
`is' operator if you aren't clear on what it's used for in the first
place.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Does the true light / Of love come in flashes
    -- Sandra St. Victor


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Mar  2 10:00:28 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:00:28 -0800
Subject: Little explanation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1078224018.12614.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.21.1078224018.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4044aa28$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Angelo Secchi wrote:

> Hi,
> few days ago I had a problem of converting floating from an IBM/370
> system to the actual standard. Thanks to a couple of you (Anton and
> Howard) I got the code to solve the problem that as expected works fine.
> I (a newbie not only with Python but also with programming) tried to
> understand the code by myself but finally I decided to bother the list
> again for a couple of explanations. First here the code I'm referring
> to:
> 
> def ibm370tofloat(fourbytes):
>     i = struct.unpack('>I',fourbytes)[0]
>     sign = [1,-1][bool(i & 0x100000000L)]
>     characteristic = ((i >> 24) & 0x7f) - 64
>     fraction = (i & 0xffffff)/float(0x1000000L)
>     return sign*16**characteristic*fraction

This could also have been done as:

     def ibm370(fourbytes):
         first = ord(fourbytes[0])
         fraction = struct.unpack('>I', chr(0)+fourbytes[1:]) * 2. ** -24
         if first > 127: fraction = -fraction #or sign =[1,-1][first>127]
         characteristic = (first & 0x7F) - 64
         return fraction * 16 ** characteristic

Clearer?
-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From wopronet-subscribe-conf-1080784105.hgkjbmmdhhngpkhjgmkj at smartgroups.com  Wed Mar 31 20:48:35 2004
From: wopronet-subscribe-conf-1080784105.hgkjbmmdhhngpkhjgmkj at smartgroups.com (wopronet-subscribe-conf-1080784105.hgkjbmmdhhngpkhjgmkj at smartgroups.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:48:35 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [wopronet] Your confirmation is needed to join the Group
Message-ID: <5996995.1080784115898.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com>

Dear SmartGroups user,
 


You need to confirm your subscription to the "Women's Professional Network" Group.

To confirm that you want to join, simply reply to this message.  Make sure that your message is addressed to wopronet-subscribe-conf-1080784105.hgkjbmmdhhngpkhjgmkj at smartgroups.com

If you do not want to join, do nothing.  You will be automatically removed from the Group.





-- 
http://www.smartgroups.com - making online Groups happen




From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Sat Mar 13 07:21:01 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:21:01 GMT
Subject: Sorting Driving Crazy: URGENT: PLEASE HELP
References: <mailman.346.1079159911.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<d111eafa.0403130326.3eb5b1b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dd097e85d5d4ae17658553a3e24d8e8@news.teranews.com>

On 13 Mar 2004 03:26:00 -0800, xtian at toysinabag.com (xtian) wrote:

>On a side note, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty getting a
>program to do what you want - have you worked through the tutorial
><http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>? The interactive
>prompt can be very useful to check that snippets of code do what you
>think they do.

dontbother, I think this is a good question.  You've been posting a
lot of questions that are covered in the tutorial.  I'm willing to
help kids with their homework, but not until they've not read the
assignment.

If you went through the tutorial in the standard distribution, you
might want to look at http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html for more
tutorials.  There are currently 77 tutorials listed on that site.

    --dang


From kevino at tulane.edu  Fri Mar 19 02:17:16 2004
From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:17:16 -0800
Subject: ftplib - uploading files using transfercmd?
Message-ID: <ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h@4ax.com>

Hi all,

I've come across a problem that has me stumped, and I thought I'd send
a message to the gurus to see if this makes sense to anyone else. =) 

Basically, I'm trying to upload a series of files via FTP. I'm using
ftplib to do it, and for each file I'm using transfercmd("STOR " +
myfile) to get the socket, then uploading 4096 bytes at a time and
providing status updates via a GUI interface. Finally, I close the
socket, set it to None, then move on to the next file. I'm using
active FTP to upload.

The first file uploads just fine, but on the second file I'm
consistently seeing a weird problem where the response to the PORT
command (sent by self.makeport()) comes *after* the STOR command is
sent. The order in which the commands are sent doesn't seem to differ,
only the order in which the FTP server responds differs. This causes
the transfercmd() call to see an 'error' because the repsonse to the
PORT command is a 200, but it expects a response in the 100s. I've
posted the actual FTP debug calls below. 

I can resolve the problem by continually re-logging into the server,
but I'd like to avoid doing that if possible. I've tried setting the
file mode to binary as well as ASCII with the same results.

Any clues on what I may be going wrong? Has anyone seen anything like
this before? I couldn't find anything while googling... TIA for any
help!

Kevin

#uploading first file...
*cmd* u'CWD /newlook/tutorial/'
*put* u'CWD /newlook/tutorial/\r\n'
*get* '250 CWD command successful.\r\n'
*resp* '250 CWD command successful.'
*cmd* 'TYPE I'
*put* 'TYPE I\r\n'
*get* '200 Type set to I.\r\n'
*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
item = /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm
*cmd* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,230'
*put* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,230\r\n'
*get* '200 PORT command successful.\r\n'
*resp* '200 PORT command successful.'
*cmd* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm'
*put* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm\r\n'
*get* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
/newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm.\r\n'
*resp* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
/newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm.'
*cmd* 'TYPE I'
*put* 'TYPE I\r\n'
*get* '226 Transfer complete.\r\n'
*resp* '226 Transfer complete.'

#uploading second file...
item = /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm
*cmd* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,231'
*put* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,231\r\n'
*get* '200 Type set to I.\r\n'
*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
*cmd* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm'
*put* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm\r\n'
*get* '200 PORT command successful.\r\n'
*resp* '200 PORT command successful.'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 1083, in
UploadPage
    self.UploadFiles(ftpfiles)
  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 921, in
UploadFiles
    ftp.UploadFiles()
  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 1908, in
UploadFiles
    self.mysocket = self.host.transfercmd('STOR ' + dir + myitem)
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\ftplib.py", line 336, in ntransfercmd
    raise error_reply, resp
ftplib.error_reply: 200 PORT command successful.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 31 11:04:33 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:04:33 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04><c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04><mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org><4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<95aa1afa.0403302049.4d5d4c91@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4eq69$nn6$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403302049.4d5d4c91 at posting.google.com...
> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message
news:<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>...
> > I have never left a group because of the trolls.
> > I have never left a group because of the noobies.
> > I have left a group because of the constant whining about top posting.
>
> Then maybe you should consider leaving c.l.py ?

Peter, while I am careful to quote, snip, and reply in a manner to make
coherent posts, I have been pretty tolerant of what others do.  Indeed, I
don't remember ever commenting about top-posting before this week.  (While
I may have, it has not been a priority issue for me.)

But when Mr. Hahn top-posted several sentences littered with several
unresolved references to 'this', 'you', 'suggestion', and something
'fragile', I 'rebelled', seeing how stupidly impolite was his implicit
demand that I spend several minutes scanning the previous post below to see
what he was talking about.  End of tolerance.  So I satirically, not
whiningly, top-posted a set of questions as to what the references referred
to.

If that drives you off c.l.p., so be it ;-)  ... but I hope not.

Terry J. Reedy






From vedranf at riteh.hr  Wed Mar  3 05:05:47 2004
From: vedranf at riteh.hr (Vedran Furac)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:05:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Impersonation
References: <slrnc4ba2e.jbl.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>
	<c249q1$nd0$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <slrnc4bbfr.kbn.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:50:56 +0100, Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote:
> Vedran Furac wrote:
> 
>> ..and this runs the program but not as a target user. Program is started just
>> normal as it would be without impersonation. Any idea why?
> 
> IIRC, the 'current' user has to be an administrator or have some special 
> security privileges (backup operator?) to be allowed to impersonate 
> other users.

Yes, but I have set privileges:
<http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.3/PyWin32/
Windows_NT_Security_.2d.2d_Impersonation.html>
...and (I guess) impersonation was successful because it prints target username


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 12:59:49 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:59:49 -0600
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3ki5j$28tkdb$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3ki5j$28tkdb$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16477.55317.676347.249728@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jon> Anyway, we can at least count on the fact that a .pyc compiled by a
    Jon> particular Python version (say, Python 2.1.1) on one platform (say,
    Jon> Mac), will run on another platform (say, Solaris) as long as the
    Jon> interpreter has the same minor version (say, Python 2.1.0).

Yup.  I believe there were some problems between 32- and 64-bit platforms
ages ago, but they've been resolved.

Skip



From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Wed Mar 24 15:11:57 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:11:57 +1100
Subject: ANN: dsptools-0.4.0
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.24.20.11.54.589130@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>


First public release. Feedback sought.

dsptools
========

Here be Python wrappers for portaudio, ladspa and libsndfile.
There are three modules: ladspa, sndfile, and portaudio.
They are independant of each other, ie. they should compile/run individualy.

Data interchange is type sensitive and uses numarray arrays to store sound data.

It's possible to segfault by doing stupid things, eg. from within the portaudio callback only some portaudio calls are allowed.

See the python scripts for example usage, *.pyx files for implementation, and *.pxi for underlying c library info.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dsptools/

It's under tested, under documented, but it's pretty cool.

Install
-------
Use any of the setup scripts:
$ python setup*.py build
$ python setup*.py install


Dependancies
------------

python 2.2.3 or better:
http://www.python.org/

numarray 0.8.1 (or better):
http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/

For portaudio module:
portaudio v18.1 (not v19):
http://www.portaudio.com/

For sndfile module:
libsndfile 1.0.5 or better:
http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/

For ladspa module:
ladspa.h v1.1 :
http://www.ladspa.org/ladspa_sdk/
and any plugins (optional):
http://www.ladspa.org/

Todo
----
* Enable the writing of ladspa plugins in python (!)
* portaudio v19

Related Projects
----------------

fastaudio, for portaudio & libsndfile :
http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyPortAudio/

libsndfile-python :
http://arcsin.org/archive/20030520025359.shtml

Thanks to
---------

Ross Bencina (portaudio)
Erik de Castro Lopo (libsndfile)
Greg Ewing and all the pyrex people

------------------------------------------------------------


Simon Burton
March 23, 2004



From pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 03:35:39 2004
From: pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com (o'seally)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 00:35:39 -0800
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
	<4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<86b5da9a.0403180007.1cd92b2@posting.google.com>
	<405ad3b9$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <86b5da9a.0403260035.500e6c8@posting.google.com>

Ruud de Jong <ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl> wrote in message news:<405ad3b9$0$41762$5fc3050 at dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>...
> o'seally schreef:
> 
> > i checked my original posting again. the word 'python' appears a
> > couple of times in it, so python is indeed being referred to. read my
> > original posting slowly/carefully again, you'll see it.
> 
> I did not claim that python was not referred to -- I said that
> that was my first impression, as you could have read in my
> first reaction. No need to read slowly or carefully, you cannot
> really miss it -- unless you want to.



==>it was not in response to a problem, making it more
==>difficult to discover the intention of the post;

google/usenet groups are Not only for *solving problems* or nagging
people about this and then that, and then that, etc. newsgroups are
also useful for sharing information Openly. always bear in mind that
what you find useless and totally unnecessary can come out to be the
most useful advice/opinion for *someone else*, ..cuz even if it might
be infested with a lot of junk, it might contain just One Word of
advice that someone has been needing for many years!
the intention of this post is therefore simple:.. should someone hit
this problem and start searching on google/teoma/etc, he is very
likely to be interested in any place/page that contains the words
equivalent to those in the error he saw. most pages DON'T have enough
detailed info about this error. check it out yourself, try and search
for pages with Detailed info about this specific error and you'll find
very few.

many times even when LD_LIBRARY_PATH is set **and exported** this
problem will still manifest. check the posts around and you'll find
many people that say that they **Have** set and exported
LD_LIBRARY_PATH and it gave no luck. the reason is because it's hard
to tell when ld is running and calling/loading many .so files which in
turn load more .so files ..it's hard to track whether this variable is
up-to-date in all these calls. in fact, many times the updated
LD_LIBRARY_PATH does Not seem to maintain its updated value through
nested/stacked calls that all result from ld's first run/call.


==>you needed over 100 lines of text to provide this solution;

of course i need over 100 lines. does this mean those who benefit from
my solution will have to type a bash/unix script of 100 lines? ..No
no, they'll simply create symbolic links. but then why did i Not just
type one line and say "create symbolic links" ?  well, many newbies
Don't necessarily have the in-depth knowledge of doing this
neatly/smoothly. some of them would ask me ...symbolic links to what?
many developers are Not sys admins and therefore they may Not be that
quick/up-to-speed with symbolic links. i realize i Can't cater for
every layman, but at least i should go as low/grassroot as i can.


==>the liberal use of CAPITALS (which gives your post
==>a rather spam-like appearance);

i apologize for my liberal use of caps, sorry for the liberal use of
caps, i simply had to ensure that words like *not*, *can't*, etc are
Not easily skipped by those fast readers.  but a person who has spent
nights battling with an ld problem will consider anything that seems
to talk about the error he's battling with. he'll try anything to get
that error fixed, and he'll keep searching even in spam-like places.
well, at least it **appears spam-like**, it is Not quite spam.


==>Duh. This is essentially identical to the solutions
==>that have been offered time and again whenever this or
==>a similar problem is reported.

once again read my post slowly/carefully. the advice about
LD_LIBRARY_PATH is Not what my opinion is centered around. i clearly
stated at the beginning of it that it is someone else's opinion (John
Hunter's opinion). there is a place that's clearly marked as "my
opinion" in addition to John's opinion. my opinion is centered around
symbolic links. now i want you to find out (search the net) and
discover for yourself how many posts are *identical* to my opinion. to
your suprise, you will Not find many. Do it now.  ..on the other hand,
talking about identicals ..you'd be surprised to find out how many
places on the net have an **Identical** copy of the unix man pages,
you'll be truly amazed :-)


==>Be aware that symbolic links make the files visible to
==>*all* applications -- you may not always want that, bla bla bla.

once again in my original post i said ...
as a final-FINAL Note: i'm not responsible for any files that get
deleted or that disappear from your system when you use my advice cuz
they way i see it, when u use my advice you're somehow
hacking/overriding your system's config. u do this solely at your own
discretion/risk. you came here without my invitation, and you're
reading this without my invitation either. i did Not send u this info
by email, etc. so just keep me out of it.


==>the digression on irrelevant subjects (why bring 
==>free or open source software in the discussion?)

i did Not bring these into the discussion. they're the most
insignificant words in my post. but why didn't i leave them out then??
..well, i have to use words when i type. what would u say if i said
your liberal use of the word 'appearance' in your reply above is a
digression from this topic to something irrelevant? wouldn't you
quickly turn around and say to me ...the word 'appearance' in your
reply above was simply an insignificant word. but what if i picked out
that specific word and dwelled on it? wouldn't you find me
UNbelievable? well, man you have to use words when you type/post. are
you aware that even the word 'you' can be isolated and criticized as a
digression by anyone who reads your post and *chooses* to do so.
_________________________________________________
Moses Motlhale - Solutions Architect
24th Century Solutions, South Africa.


From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 19:09:31 2004
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 16:09:31 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <mailman.0.1078423871.679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0403041609.49acc897@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.0.1078423871.679.python-list at python.org>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > Gadfly looks like an interesting database system for python. I am

I've had very good experiences with SqLite and PySqLite (and
RubySqLite for that matter).


From gelbardn at tripwire.com  Mon Mar 22 17:09:33 2004
From: gelbardn at tripwire.com (Nate Gelbard)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:09:33 -0800
Subject: XML attributes have wrong name
Message-ID: <71767983FD626146999FBFFF445390EE03B6E0@seabass.tripwire.com>

Hello,

I have a class with a lot of 'setter' methods and a toXML() method
which creates a bunch of elements, attributes, and text nodes from those
variables.

The problem is all the attribute names get munged.

        root = self.doc.createElement("Node")
        root.setAttribute("type","foo")

turns into

	<Node y="foo">

I'm using python RedHat 7.3/python 2.2.3.

--( Nate Gelbard, QA Engineer     
--( Tripwire, Inc.



From jgentil at sebistar.net  Sat Mar  6 13:07:43 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:07:43 -0600
Subject: Question please
In-Reply-To: <001801c403a1$012beb50$6500a8c0@Barbara>
References: <001801c403a1$012beb50$6500a8c0@Barbara>
Message-ID: <1078596463.1261.6.camel@mastermind>

On Sat, 2004-03-06 at 11:32, Abe and Barb K. wrote:

> I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2 with
> win32 extensions software.
>  
> I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if I can just
> remove this software without affecting anything in my system as it is
> taking up space if I'm not going to use it?

It's interesting that Python is being shipped preinstalled on Windows
machines.  You may not want to remove it:  hp may have a need for it,
perhaps Python scripts run maintenance or something.  Check with HP to
see if its safe to remove.


-- 
Jon-Pierre Gentil      :   PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
    AIM: Zenethian     :   Jabber: zenethian at jabber.org

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From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 03:56:35 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:56:35 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <7xwu5484yj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwu5484yj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c48oi3$59$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> Sort, then remove dups.

A list 10 million integers suck up ~160 megs of memory with Python.  I 
doubt the strings would fit even then.

I would suggest a multi-phase method.  Break the sequence up into 100k 
element blocks each and remove duplicates using dictionaries.  Sort each 
block individually and write each to a file.

Merge the 100 files by using a heapq.
#heap is structured like...
[("next string in file a", file_handle_a),
  ("next string in file b", file_handle_b),...]

If you keep using heappop and heappush from heapq, along with a single 
string of memory, you can remove duplicates quite easily, and certainly 
won't run out of memory.

  - Josiah


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 06:17:43 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:17:43 +0200
Subject: Examples of using the html parser
In-Reply-To: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>
References: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40471057.7020502@zoran.com>

Hello Boogie,

> Were can I find examples of the usege of the html parser class?
Here is what I do to find the current price of a quote in Yahoo!
class Parser(HTMLParser):
     '''HTML Parser to get quote value'''
     def __init__(self, quote):
         HTMLParser.__init__(self)
         self.state = "START"
         self.value = ERR_VALUE
         self.quote = quote.upper()

     def handle_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
         '''Handle start tag'''
         if self.state == "AFTER_START" and tag == "b":
             self.state = "GET"

     def handle_data(self, data):
         '''Handle tag data'''
         if self.state == "START" and data == "Last Trade:":
             self.state = "AFTER_START"
         elif self.state == "GET":
             try:
                 self.value = float(data)
             except ValueError:
                 self.value = ERR_VALUE
             self.state = "DONE"

def get_quote(quote):
     '''Get quote prices'''
     p = Parser(quote)
     p.feed(urlopen("http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%s" % 
quote.upper()).read())
     return p.value


HTH.
Miki


From eugene at boardkulture.com  Fri Mar 12 15:00:01 2004
From: eugene at boardkulture.com (Eugene Van den Bulke)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:00:01 +1100
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.279.1079027533.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com> <c2ro0h$2sn$1@news.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <opr4rlubpyh5525a@news.tpg.com.au>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:14:24 +0100, Gerrit Muller 
<gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl> wrote:

> Jason Harper wrote:
>
>> You have two issues here:
>>
>> 1. Don't use the quit method, instead just close your window.  Your QUIT
>> button could perhaps use:
>> 	command=self.destroy
>>
>> 2. Don't call mainloop() if IDLE already has one running.  Try this:
>>
>> import sys
>> if "idlelib" not in sys.modules:
>> 	root.mainloop()
>>
>> 	Jason Harper
>
> I think that this answer deserves a place in a cookbook recipe. I did 
> not work with Tkinter for more than a year, but I remember that I 
> struggled with exactly the same issues and more or less experimentally 
> reached this solution.
>
> thanks for the clarification!
>
> regards Gerrit
>

I have a probleme with the "if idlelib" solution ... without the 
root.mainloop() the window does not appear after I pressed F5 to run the 
programm. But when I type root.mainloop() in the shell window that opens 
up, it works.

Any idea? Thanks for your help.


-- 
Eugene Van den Bulke
[-----
www.boardkulture.com
www.actiphot.com
www.xsbar.com
-----]


From dave at nullcube.com  Tue Mar 23 17:12:44 2004
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:12:44 +1100
Subject: PyQT under OpenBSD
Message-ID: <20040323221244.GB29343@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

Hi all,

does anyone know of, or have a port of the PyQT module for OpenBSD ??

cheers
Dave

-- 
Dave Harrison
Nullcube
dave at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com



From wsr2 at swbell.net  Sun Mar 28 09:49:58 2004
From: wsr2 at swbell.net (Bill Rubenstein)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:49:58 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.357.1080147061.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ad0a21aae760b57989716@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>

In article <mailman.357.1080147061.742.python-list at python.org>, gabor at z10n.net 
says...
> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 15:16, Bill Rubenstein wrote:
> > ...snip... 
> > > > other thing is, that in the projects i work on, there seems to be
> > > > very hard to do unit tests
> > ...snip...
> > 
> > The ability to do unit testing should not be an afterthought.  It should be 
> > considered as a major influence on the architecture of a project.
> > 
> > If one cannot do proper unit testing, the architecture of the project is 
> > questionable.
> 
> ok, so let's use a specific example:
> 
> imagine you're building a library, which fetches webpages. 
> 
> you have a library which can fetch 1 webpage at a time, but it is a
> synchronous library (like wget). you call him, and he returns the page.
> 
> but you want an async one.
> 
> so you decide to build a threadpool, where every thread will do this:
> look into a queue, and if there is a new URL to fetch, fetches it with
> his wget-like library, and saves the html page somewhere (and maybe
> signals something).
> 
> and now the user who uses your library, simply adds the URL to fetch,
> and can check later asynchronously whether they are already fetched or
> not.
> 
> could you tell me what unit tests would you create for this example?
> 
> 
> (a more generic request: is there on the internet a webpage with
> something like this? one where they have some complex
> modules/programs/algorithms, and they show how to write unittests for
> them?)
> 
> thanks,
> gabor
> 
> 
> 
Ok, I think I understand what the job is so, here is a try.

I'm assuming that this async wget's job is to start at a url, fetch it, track 
down and fetch any links and such, get them, and make all of that available on 
the local system for later viewing.

To make it testable, I'd design so that the application part of the system 
(described above) has as limited a knowledge of its surroundings as possible -- 
except for the actual work performed. It should have no knowledge of a gui, for 
instance.

Instead it should know about an object which represents a 'job'.  This object 
should have attributes and/or functions which can be accessed to find out the 
base URL, the current status or state of the specific job (not started, in 
progress (various states here),..., complete.  There should be a log associated 
with the job object where both normal and abnormal stuff can be kept.  It should 
also be able to provide information about the user if there is one, instructions 
about the base URL, where in the local file system to store the results, etc.  
During the development phase this job object is going to be a bit dynamic as new 
needs for it are discovered.

There should probably be one object which can keep track of all of the job 
objects and is responsible for creating new ones and deleting old ones.

All of the interfaces to the job management object and the job object need to be 
formalized and properly documented.  This whole subsystem can be tested, then, by 
a test driver requesting services via the documented interfaces, changing the 
state of a job via the documented interfaces and determining that the state 
transitions are as expected.  There is no need to fetch any real URLs to do this, 
just pretend you did.  This test driver also needs to exercise the interfaces 
intended for use by a gui.

Now, as to testing the actual application code -- I'd think that you'd need a set 
of URLs which would return known and stable results and a number of error 
situations (bad links and such) to test against.  Then a test driver would be 
written to use the standard interfaces to the job management object and the job 
object to schedule work against those URLs, determine when that work is done and 
test that the results are as expected, highlight the differences between a prior 
run against the particular URL and the current run, etc.

I've been retired for years but that was pretty much how we did it.  There were 
two small programming teams -- one writing application code against the formal 
interface documentation and one writing test scaffolding against the same 
documentation and building test cases.  Things worked, the bug rate was very low, 
implementation changes were localized and testable...

Anyway, it worked for us and we never had to claim that we just couldn't test 
something except in production.

Bill







From danslists at fastmail.fm  Tue Mar 23 15:14:13 2004
From: danslists at fastmail.fm (Dan Boitnott)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:14:13 -0600
Subject: [PyGTK] TreeView cells automatically in edit mode?
Message-ID: <10616kltpb26r42@corp.supernews.com>

I'm using a TreeView with a ListStore and my users really want to get 
rid of the "Enter to Edit-Edit-Enter to Save" cycle needed to edit a 
cell.  I'd like to have it such that if they focus on the grid it edits 
the current cell.  If they hit enter or tab it moves to the next cell. 
If they hit the up or down arrows it should change rows and edit those 
cells.

I've not been able to find a decent way to do this.  Suggestions?

Dan Boitnott


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 28 17:30:46 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 22:30:46 GMT
Subject: Appreciation for the importance of readability (was: Choosing 
 Perl/Python for my particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106ce9eaed1sk61@corp.supernews.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403272342.242bae89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40675322.60A34D54@doe.carleton.ca>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
> 1. we want to spend at most 5% of our time doing coding and 95% doing
>    science;
> 2. our group is composed by two persons and our code will never be
>    released;
> 3. if a Ph. D. student reach the group and has to study the code, we
>    will explain it to him in person;
> 4. the largest program we will ever write is a thousand lines long;
>    for the rest we will use standard routines and write as little code
>    as possible;
> 5. we don't care at all about fancy graphics: the output will be a list
>    of numbers write on a file and displayed by gnuplot;
> 6. all we care is numerical performance in floating point computations;
>    the logic of the program will be trivial.
> 
> They actually used old fashioned Fortran 77 and I think they made the perfect
> choice given their requirements; they essentially had to do numerical
> integrations and solving differential equations, tasks were Fortran is
> incredibly strong. Other persons I know doing particle Physics and doing a
> good deal of programming (good deal means something like 50% of their time
> spent on programming; spending more than 50% means that you are actually
> a programmer, and scientists don't want to do that) were using a mixture
> of Fortran and C. Here I am referring to people doing numerically
> intensive tasks; I have seen a trend to switch to C++ for large projects,
> since there is a perception than C++ scales better than Fortran. In
> any case, the core routines are still in Fortran and always will be.
> For scripting tasks, scripting languages are used; I know a few
> astronomers who were using Perl to control the telescope movement.
> Many physicists/astronomers use Python too. Specialized languages
> and tools (Mathematica, Maple, Matlab, Octave, Yorick, etc. etc.)
> have their place.


I want to start by emphasizing that I don't disagree with you.
I've spent a great deal of a previous degree in solution
methods for couple PDEs, as well as problem formulations that
come up with PDEs.  I know of the tools that you mentioned.

I would like to point out that many science problem are not
as much numerically based.  Many of them can be regarded still
as "physically" based science.  For example, physical design
phase of digital circuit design relies on optimization
algorithms, albeit applied to a specialized class of problems.
There are genetic algorithms that evolve neural nets for
various applications (many of them physically based).  These
less numerical applications use more abstraction in computational
models, so C++ has a place for these.

Of course, it is arguable that the computation models and
methods are a separate thing from the physical problems
that motivate them.  So it all depends on how each person
interprets "science".

Fred


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 23:46:17 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:46:17 -0800
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c4au8r$715$1@news.service.uci.edu>

[snip long and involved post]

What you have posted is currently generally known as a "Genetic 
Algorithm".  Searching for that term on Google should net you many links.

In terms of applicability, genetic algorithms are decent at 
approximating solutions to a class of problems known as NP.  You can 
search through various resources for more information on NP.

Now, I say approximate, because if you look at the *space of possible 
solutions*, genetic algorithms will tend to find local optimums.  That 
is, the space is huge, and genetic algorithms will find you a set of 
decent solutions.  These solutions are rarely, if ever, the true 
optimal, but can, with the right crossover and mutation functions, be 
pretty damn good.

In terms of using genetic algorithms to write programs, I haven't read 
any papers in the last few years with any positive results in that 
specific field.  It is possible (in fact, quite likely) that I am 
missing some sort of paper on the topic, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

So yeah, search for genetic algorithms and NP for their description, and 
you'll probably find something you like.

Additionally, you may want to read Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of 
Science".  It is available on the internet for free.

  - Josiah


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Mon Mar 22 09:27:38 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:27:38 +0100
Subject: shutils.move lose files !
In-Reply-To: <c3d5e0$in8$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
References: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>
	<c3d5e0$in8$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <c3mt4p$281qdq$1@uni-berlin.de>

Miki Tebeka schrieb:

> Hello Shagshag,
> 
>>>>> import os
>>>>> os.mkdir('c:/stupid')
>>>>> open('c:/stupid/atest.txt', 'w').write('a file')
>>>>> os.listdir('c:/stupid')
>>
>>
>> ['atest.txt']
>>
>>>>> import shutil
>>>>> shutil.move('c:/stupid', 'c:/stupid/donotexist')
>>>>> os.listdir('c:/stupid')
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#22>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>>     os.listdir('c:/stupid')
>> WindowsError: [Errno 3] Le chemin d'acc?s sp?cifi? est introuvable:
>> 'c:/stupid/*.*'
> 
>  >>> from os import mkdir, listdir
>  >>> from shutil import move
>  >>> mkdir("c:/temp/xxx")
>  >>> open("c:/temp/xxx/moo", "w").write("moo")
>  >>> move("c:/temp/xxx/moo", "c:/temp/xxx/goo")
>  >>> listdir("c:/temp/xxx")
> ['goo']
>  >>>
> 
> This is on win2k
> Miki

But it's not the same thing: you are renaming a file, leaving it in its 
original directory. The original poster tried to move the directory into 
a subdirectory of itself.

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From gabor at z10n.net  Tue Mar 23 15:44:05 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:44:05 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1080074644.4365.12.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>

On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 17:24, Cameron Laird wrote:
> >> JG> I feel honour-bound to point out that citing static typing (explicit
> >> JG> static typing, in particular) as a means of creating more correct
> >> JG> programs, to be one of the greatest contemporary myths of software
> >> JG> engineering.
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> >I'm not familiar enough with some of the more modern languages that use
> >explicit static typing to know if they offer other advantages beyond helping
> >the compiler be more efficient, but from experience I don't hesitate to say
> >that the explicit type systems of Pascal/C++/Java seem to do more harm than
> >good (meaning that if they provide some benefit, overall it's still a net
> >negative due to the extra burden they place on the developers). For large
> >projects in particular they seem to get in the way more and more as the project
> >increases in size.

> I want to call attention to this.  Dave and I appear to be in
> agreement that, while common wisdom in our field is that C++,
> Java, and so on, are serious languages that are the only 
> realistic choices for large projects, we are both saying that
> they're at a particular DISadvantage there.  If you have a
> big job, you *particularly* need to look at Python (or Erlang,
> or Eiffel, or ...)
> -- 

i wanted to use python for a project in our company... we wanted to
build a fairly big system/program.

but when i recommended python, i got a question like:
(previously all the programs were written in java)
"if one of our programmers changes a method in a class/interface, we
immediately will know about it, because the next program-rebuild will
simply fail. but if we would use python, we wouldn't find it out".

yes, i know that people usually recommend unit testing for this, but
imho it is not a good enough argument
(other thing is, that in the projects i work on, there seems to be very
hard to do unit tests... most of the parts of the system can't be that
easily be tested (how do you unittest a threadpool? a servlet?). yes,
i've heard that "if you can't make unittests, that means your
classes/modules/packages depend too much on each othere, and that means
you wrote bad code. but that's not that simple.

to make it short:
i would love to hear good counter-arguments again the
standard-argument-for-the-statically
typed-or-whatever-is-their-name-languages-like-java.

gabor




From python-url at phaseit.net  Sun Mar 14 14:28:31 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:28:31 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 14)
Message-ID: <1059civd88mglf3@corp.supernews.com>

SCOTW ["Snappy comeback ..."]:  In response to a misguided plea, "where can
I find Paris Hilton video?", timbot answers:  "comp.lang.perl.misc".

QOTW:  "Class definitions should *NOT* be nested."  -- Aahz
    http://groups.google.com/groups?th=6dad6bdcf632d347


    The editor bets that the most important Pythoneering right
    now has to do with mobile telephones.  While there's still
    no coherent treatment of what's going on there, Douglas 
    Rushkoff at least describes the landscape
	http://www.thefeature.com/article?articleid=100443&ref=479264

    Perhaps the big accomplishment of the week was to sharpen
    understanding of what reload() does.  This has particular
    relevance for those exploiting IDEs
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=cab8326fe3e8a81b

    Timothy C Delaney provides a tough-minded recipe for 
    development of reliable Python code
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=3f09e968c6a9e37e

    Gorny's BTK makes it easy to do ugly low-level networking
    in Python
	http://home.student.utwente.nl/g.v.berg/btk/

    Paul McGuire helpfully introduces the subject of "Calling
    Matlab from Python"
	http://www.geocities.com/ptmcg/python/using_matlab_from_python.html

    Aahz explains in two sentences a serious hazard in letting
    a function import
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=8dd560d10458f9db

    Python's logging needs simplicity
	http://www.mechanicalcat.net/richard/log/Python/Simple_usage_of_Python_s_logging_module

    Pexpect is a pure-Python extension with an interesting
    property:  while most developers appear to have no use for
    it, those who do want it recognize *immediately* how it
    solves their problems
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=b50df12eec3a9db
	http://www.samag.com/articles/2004/0402/


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 11 20:19:19 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:19:19 -0000
Subject: More glossary items (was: Extending Python Syntax with @)
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
	<c2qiuk$rs7$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<i5t1501ljfh9qtks01o5gc5mtbc0looj8n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <105240nms3cl45f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <i5t1501ljfh9qtks01o5gc5mtbc0looj8n at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>months.  I took five years of calculus in college, and I still don't
>see the connection between lambda functions and calculus.
			.
			.
			.
They're both about getting results.

Serious.  What you learned as "calculus" was earlier called
"the analytic calculus" or "the differential and integral
calculus".  It's about getting results (very roughly speaking)
that have to do with "smooth" properties (of shapes and motions,
let's say).  

Lambda is entirely different--except that it's also a calculus,
that is, largely expressible algorithmically.  Lambda happens
to be about computations.

There are other calculi--"quaternion calculus" and "vector 
calculus" are two not-too-uncommonly-heard ones.  Lambda and
the one you learned in college courses are much the most often
used in such references.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 08:51:59 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:51:59 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>


>I don't have very much sympathy for people who
>use poor editors to write programs.  I've got a lot of
>sympathy for people who are stuck with defective
>rendering and printing programs for analyzing programs
>that they didn't write in the first place, though. Note that
>Python, which is mostly what we're talking about on this
>newsgroup, comes with a reasonably competent editor
>called Idle. There are very few environments where you
>can use Python at all where you can't use Idle.
>  
>
I have sympathy for neither. If your editor sucks then change it. If 
your printing program sucks than change it. I've never bothered using 
Idle as I don't like GUI-based editors so I wouldn't really be familiar 
with how it behaves.

>I've never seen variable width fonts to change the width
>of spaces on the left, unless it was doing something like
>full justification.
>  
>
I have, but then I throw such editors out after a single glance.

>As far as rendering programs, the most obvious
>culprit is OE, which for all of its defects and security
>problems, is still one of the most used mail and newsgroup
>clients out there.
>  
>
Do people actually post and read a lot of source code on mail or 
newsgroup lists? Is that the main reason for not using tabs in code? 
That'd seem a bit odd to me. Never actually tried using OE to read code. 
I really don't use OE. Why wouldn't you just open the code in your code 
editor of choice?

>I'll also point out that even programs that properly follow
>the tab "standard" will not render well since the standard
>is that a tab goes to the next multiple of 8. The number
>8 has nothing to do with readability: it was decided on
>as the best compromise on compressing the number of
>characters going over a line when line speeds were *very*
>slow and teletypes really were electromechanical monsters
>with these little metal stops called 'tabs' in the back.
>  
>
What difference does it make what the standard length of a tab is as 
long as it remains the same throughout the program? As long as the size 
is uniform it should render just fine.

>There is, of course, no standard at all for how to change
>the default tabbing in programs, which means that one
>has to deal with each and every one on an individual
>basis - if it's even possible.
>  
>
Again, as long as it's uniform does it matter? It won't change the logic 
of the code as long as it opens a tab as a tab and saves a tab as a tab. 
If you can't trust your editor to do something that basic then trash it.

>Reading the source for Idle is quite
>enlightening: there is a comment about Tk doing something
>rather absurd if you change the tab default.
>  
>
I've glanced at it but never really read it. Why would Tk care what the 
tab default of your editor is? In the source it's still a single tab 
character.

>Any programming editor worth the name will insert spaces
>when you use the tab key; likewise it will adjust with the
>backspace key. This is not a problem unique to Python,
>after all.
>  
>
No, a good editor will do nothing you don't tell it to do. A good editor 
will insert a tab when you insert a tab and delete a tab when you delete 
a tab. Why should it use spaces to simulate a tab when you can just use 
a tab? That sounds like needless complexity.

>The same comment applies to variable width fonts. A good
>programming editor will not use them.
>  
>
Agreed. I wouldn't use one that did use them.



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 03:38:32 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:38:32 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
	<mailman.71.1079499951.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40580E88.B86D0A45@alcyone.com>

Dietrich Epp wrote:

> I wouldn't say comparing different different types is necessarily an
> error, though.

It's guaranteed to be consistent, and sort is guaranteed not to go nuts
(as someone else pointed out).  The ordering is defined to be
consistent, although it does not define a well-ordering, and furthermore
need not be the same between different implementations (or even
different implementations).  It may not be an error, but there's no
reason for it to be a total ordering.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ You and I / We've seen it all / Chasing our hearts' desire
    -- The Russian and Florence, _Chess_


From technoumena at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 23:25:43 2004
From: technoumena at yahoo.com (Technoumena)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:25:43 GMT
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <L8Lac.6822$Hs1.3914@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<L8Lac.6822$Hs1.3914@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <bRMac.151768$_w.1698991@attbi_s53>

Qp wrote:
> I don't know if anyone else will think it's funny...
> 
> "Shane Hathaway" <shane at zope.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>Here's a Python slogan suggestion by Ken Manheimer.
>>
>>One Nation Under Under Python
>>
>>I thought it was pretty funny.  I don't know if international folks will
>>get it, though. :-)
>>
>>Shane

With the derivation of Python's name from Monty Python's Flying Circus 
it seems natural that a recognizable quote from those grand comedians 
would fit well.  Clearly, there is no shortage of humorous quotes from them.

Regards,
Technoumena


From erik at heneryd.com  Wed Mar 24 04:14:04 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:14:04 +0100
Subject: address a port
In-Reply-To: <9eabe547.0403232100.501b8bbe@posting.google.com>
References: <9eabe547.0403232100.501b8bbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4061515C.2040208@heneryd.com>

John Howard wrote:
> Basic has the inp() statement for accepting data from a port accessed
> from a memory location. Does python have a similar instruction?

No.  On Linux, you could either use the ioperm()/inb()/related macros 
(see http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/ioport/ioport.html for a simple Python 
wrapper) or read from /dev/port if you got that device compiled in - 
this function reads a byte (you'll need read access to /dev/port):

def inb(port):
     f = file("/dev/port")
     f.seek(port)
     value = ord(f.read(1))
     f.close()
     return value

spam = inb(0x378) # get byte from LPT1

More (general) info can be found in the Linux I/O port mini-HOWTO: 
http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/IO-Port-Programming.html


HTH

Erik Heneryd



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 02:26:06 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:26:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <c38t3f$8pj$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040317072606.1235.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>

I've added

export LANG=zh_CN.GB2312

in both .bash_profile and .bashrc

Now, if I issue 'locale', I get:

LANG=zh_CN.GB2312
LC_CTYPE=en_US
LC_NUMERIC=en_US
LC_TIME=en_US
LC_COLLATE=en_US
LC_MONETARY=en_US
LC_MESSAGES=en_US
LC_PAPER=en_US
LC_NAME=en_US
LC_ADDRESS=en_US
LC_TELEPHONE=en_US
LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US
LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_US
LC_ALL=

Notice that LANG=zh_CN.GB2312, which seems to be what
I want, but still when I run the following script:

s = 'SomeChineseCharacter' 
# don't take this literally, s is simply a string in
# the Chinese language
s = unicode(s, 'gb2312')
print s

I still get the same error message:

UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in range(256).

What should I do?  Thank you!


--- "Martin_v._L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> > OK, gotcha. By the way, do you know how to set the
> > default language of Mandrake or any linux system,
> so
> > that I can probably mimic.
> 
> You need to set the LANG environment variable. This
> is best done on a per-user basis, e.g. in the .login
> file of the user. Setting LANG to zh_CN should give
> you a (simplified) Chinese environment. Python 2.3
> will automatically pick up that setting when
> printing
> Unicode strings.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 24 10:31:45 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:31:45 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> As this statement appears to be causing some interest, I thought I'd
> best prestent, in public, a slightly more thoughtful summary of my
> thoughts on the subject:

Ah, a static vs dynamic typing argument! A perennial favourite on 
comp.lang.functional. And incidentally on one of my places of work, 
Ericsson, where we use Erlang (dynamic typing).

> - Static typing systems refuse to compile programs which contain type
>   errors.
> 
> - Test suites point out where your program deviates from expected
>   behaviour.

You're really not comparing like with like here. While the first 
statement is true on the face of it. The second is also true on the face 
of it, but probably not what you meant. It's that if the unit tests have 
been designed to find deviations from the 'expected' behaviour they 
will. Whether the 'expected' behaviour was actually the 'specified' 
behaviour is another question entirely. Programmers/designers 
misunderstanding the specification is all to common an occurrence.

So, in the case of unit testing the specification has to be interpreted. 
And there's nothing to stop the programmer to take advantage of a static 
typing system to make the same interpretation, aka 'typeful 
programming'. There's little difference between thinking up a test case 
and a type during the design. (And you have to do both anyway).

It should be noted that I speak of Hindley Milner type typesystems. I.e. 
that do type inference and can handle polymorphism in data structures as 
in e.g. Haskell.

I've found that a problem with making this restriction is that someone 
always draws up 'C' or 'C++' as an example of 'static typing' and by all 
means, if that's what you're comparing against, then allmost anything 
would be an improvement. However they're not state of the art and any 
example drawn from the that world is not an argument against static 
typing per se.

> What is more important to you and/or your clients ?  Ask yourself the
> following questions:
> 
> - Do your clients give a hoot about whether or not a program is
>   considered to be type-correct by the type system of programming
>   language X ?
> 
> - Do your clients care whether your program does what it is supposed to
>   do ?

As I said. Given typeful programming the first statement is more or less 
the same as the second. And the second doesn't follow from your 
statements above, there's a crucial difference. (That typeful 
programming doesn't solve either, granted). One of my job titles is 
requirements bureaucrat, so I've seen this time and time again.

Myself, I've moved from O'Caml (strong static typing with type inference 
and polymorphism) to Python, so I've found that the benefits outweigh 
the drawbacks. That's not to say that I don't miss the typechecker. I 
do. I don't see how it could be grafted onto Python though without 
changing it to something else.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  8 22:25:05 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:25:05 -0600
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>

You can use os.pipe() to get a pair of fds, where data written to the
second one can be read by the first one.  Untested code:
    reader, writer = os.pipe()
    
    pid1 = coroutine(('/bin/sh', '-c', 'some code1'), \
                    reader, sys.stdout, sys.stderr)
    pid2 = coroutine(('/bin/sh', '-c', 'some code2'), \
                    sys.stdin, writer, sys.stderr)

Use os.waitpid() to reap the child processes.

All of this assumes Unix, of course.

Jeff


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitions of coroutine() and supporting code.  Moderately tested:

dev_null = open("/dev/null", "rw")
def F(x):
    if x is None: return dev_null.fileno()
    if not isinstance(x, int): return x.fileno()
    return x

def coroutine(args, child_stdin, child_stdout, child_stderr):
    pid = os.fork()
    if pid == 0:
        os.dup2(F(child_stdin), 0)
        os.dup2(F(child_stdout), 1)
        os.dup2(F(child_stderr), 2)
        for j in range(3, 255):
            try: os.close(j)
            except: pass
        os.execvp(args[0], args)
        print "execvp failed ?"
        os._exit(99)
    return pid

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 06:27:33PM -0800, Christian Seberino wrote:



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 18:47:40 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:47:40 -0800
Subject: Import a module from parent package
In-Reply-To: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>
References: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3g10j$hga$2@news.service.uci.edu>

[snip relative import comments]

As Peter Hansen has already stated, PEP 328 is all about including this 
functionality.  The PEP has basically been accepted as being a good 
idea, the only question is what syntax is the correct one.  It should be 
decided by Python 2.4.

  - Josiah


From gandreas at no.reply  Wed Mar 31 09:43:22 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:43:22 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
	<mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<temac.74866$cx5.61050@fed1read04>
	<tyfzn9x1d0l.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <gandreas-98267C.08432231032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <tyfzn9x1d0l.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>,
 Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> 
> > Goodbye.
> 
> Mark, Please _do_ take the hint that Terry is giving you. I would like
> to read your posts, but your top-quoting style makes them so difficult
> to decypher that I am finding it not worth my time and effort.


Basically, it comes down to "top posting is rude".

If you were talking with somebody and they were belching in your face, 
you'd probably walk away.

Trying to hold a meaningful USENET "conversation" when somebody is top 
posting is much the same - made extra bothersome because it might be an 
interesting thread.

So certainly, if you want somebody else opinions/suggestions/help, being 
rude to them doesn't encourage favorable reactions.

(This coming from another person who is interesting in Prothon but 
becoming less so just because of pain of having to wade through 
top-posting).


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:23:37 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:23:37 +1300
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <10517r5523m4743@news.supernews.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <EO%3c.2675$G3.20988@localhost>
	<10517r5523m4743@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c2rafr$21ftn5$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

John Roth wrote:
> I suspect that's a rather common error. I'd much prefer
> that both find and index return an object that acted like
> a number but returned the logically correct response when
> queried as a boolean: true for zero and false for -1.

Good heavens, no! That would be a *massively* dangerous
object to have floating around in one's program...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From lvincelette at videotron.ca  Thu Mar 18 21:51:58 2004
From: lvincelette at videotron.ca (Laurent Vincelette)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:51:58 -0500
Subject: services
Message-ID: <cft6c.18768$qK1.668556@weber.videotron.net>

I have a python script (file start with #!/usr/bin/python) that use 
xmlrpclib to lessen and respond on port:8000. The problem is when I 
close the shell (bash in remote with putty) the script stop to work. I 
try to start it in backgroud with & but it dosent work. Finally I copy 
and I try to modify the /etc/init.d/crond to start the script in 
services (with start-stop-demon but I have the same problem... When I 
close putty the script stop.

Someone have a idea?

thank's

Laurent


From andy at reportlab.com  Wed Mar 24 17:06:31 2004
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 14:06:31 -0800
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
	<c3q8jq$aj4$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <956003ae.0403241406.1ba944d3@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c3q8jq$aj4$1 at panix3.panix.com>...
> In article <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b at posting.google.com>,
> Jesse Noller <jnoller at reference-info.com> wrote:
> >
> >With 5 threads - I need each of the 5 threads to read 1 line from the
> >file (but never the same line) and perform the processing. I never
> >want the thread count to exceed the 5 threads defined.
> 
> Bad idea.  Never access the same external resource from multiple
> threads.

Unless each line was a URL which needed a test suite running
against it, or the name of a file needing significant independent
processing?

- Andy Robinson


From m.bless at gmx.de  Thu Mar 25 07:53:01 2004
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:53:01 GMT
Subject: monitoring a directory
References: <mailman.382.1080205904.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4063d360.17864375@news.versatel.de>

[Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk>]

>The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the

Hhm, looks like "win32file" expertise is around ;-)

Shameless question plugin: Is there a way to find the realname of a
file on Windows? In those times of DOS there was a DOS call/interrupt
"Truename" that would return the real name of a files. This is
important if you have created additional drives via the "SUBST"
command.

I'm still looking for a foolproof way to ensure that two files are
different on windows. There are times where I'd like to avoid deleting
the last valid copy of a file ...

mb - Martin Bless



From edwin at localhost.localdomain  Sat Mar 20 10:51:55 2004
From: edwin at localhost.localdomain (Edwin Young)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 07:51:55 -0800
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
References: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.28.1079374809.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<m3oequ9nyw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.135.1079628330.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r7vnfrdw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>


> >>>>> "Edwin" == Edwin Young <edwin at localhost.localdomain> writes:
> 
>     Edwin> Right, the problem is getting the data *into* the pixbuf in
>     Edwin> the first place. Basically I have the image in a long
>     Edwin> string in memory and need to get that into the Pixbuf
>     Edwin> somehow. The pixel_array is read-only, so I can't use that.

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
> On the pygtk side, I load this into a Pixbuf pixel array as follows
> (in this case the image data is RGBA so the array is M x N x 4)
> 
>         rows, cols, s = im.as_str()
>         X = fromstring(s, UInt8)
>         X.shape = cols, rows, 4
>         pb=gtk.gdk.Pixbuf(gtk.gdk.COLORSPACE_RGB,
>                           has_alpha=1, bits_per_sample=8,
>                           width=rows, height=cols)
>         try: pa = pb.get_pixels_array()
>         except AttributeError: pa = pb.pixel_array
> 
>         pa[:,:,:] = X
> 
>         gc = self.new_gc()
>         pb.render_to_drawable(self.gdkDrawable, gc.gdkGC, 0, 0,
>                               int(x), int(self.height-y), rows, cols,
>                               gdk.RGB_DITHER_NONE, 0, 0)
> 
> This actually works quite well, performance wise.  At least on the
> systems I've tested.  You'll need pygtk compiled with numeric support.
> In an earlier thread, Cedric just provided a link to a win32 installer
> with Numeric if you need it.

That looks fine, but ideally I want to avoid having complicated
dependencies- I don't want my program to be one of the ones that
require you to download ten others just to run them. Pygtk itself
seems to be pretty widely distributed in popular distributions, but
PyGTK-with-Numeric isn't.

I think I'll just write a tiny C extension to copy the data into
the pixbuf.

Regards,
--
Edwin


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar  1 03:14:26 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:14:26 -0800
Subject: Why Python?
In-Reply-To: <l6C0c.8261$ko6.195399@attbi_s02>
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>	<pan.2004.03.01.05.57.25.838105@socal.rr.com>
	<l6C0c.8261$ko6.195399@attbi_s02>
Message-ID: <4042F0E2.4060607@mlug.missouri.edu>


>>>2. Python programs are somewhat difficult to distribute compared to
>>>programs in languages that compile to native code.
>>>      
>>>
>>How do you figure this one?  Something to do with statically linked
>>libraries?  (I'm a Python newbie, but have been programming in general
>>for almost 20 years, about half of that professionally.)
>>    
>>
>
>Basically you have to distribute the Python interpreter along with your
>program, since you generally can't rely on the end user having (the correct
>version of) Python installed.
>
It's really no harder a dependency to check than for shared libraries or 
such with C programs.



From ggg at zzz.it  Wed Mar 24 11:31:17 2004
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:31:17 +0100
Subject: urllib2 and POST
In-Reply-To: <c3q3b6$anu$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <c3q3b6$anu$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <2fis3c.jhm.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

Richard A. Jones wrote:

> How do you send a POST to a url? I know how to do this with httplib but how
> do you do this using urllib2. For example:
> 
> import urllib2
> 
> url = http://123.8.37.87:4080/somewhere/something
> f = urllib2.urlopen(url)
> 
> 
> When I attempt this I get HTTP Error 400: HTTP method GET is not supported
> by this URL. Am I missing something?
try this:

url = "http://123.8.37.87:4080/somewhere/something"

data = {'some':'value'}
f = urllib2.urlopen(url, data=data)

if data is not None urllib2 automatically performs a POST
instead of GET.


-- 
@prefix foaf: <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
<#me> a foaf:Person ; foaf:nick "deelan" ;
foaf:weblog <http://www.deelan.com/> .


From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 20:47:42 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:47:42 -0800
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <WSq8c.41439$Bg.13888@fed1read03>


"Kenneth McDonald" <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net...
> For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
> and then find out the following information about functions and
> methods defined within it:
>
> 1) Parameter names and order
> 2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
> 3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
> parameter list.
>
> Reading documentation about function objects, the only
> relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
> default param values, which is not useful to me.
>
> I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
> I would strongly prefer a simpler way. I'd have thought that,
> like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
> would also be stored with function objects.
>
> Thanks,
> Ken


Try

for item in inspect.getsource(modname).split('\n'):
    if (item.startswith("def") and item.endswith(":")):
        print item

Seems to work well.




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Mar 26 14:13:52 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:13:52 +0000
Subject: PyProtocols question
Message-ID: <iiv860ptknuam21n50285chcuvr4i12182@4ax.com>

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is the best forum to place this question, but
haven't found a better one, so here goes.

I have Python 2.3 in my machine (Windows 2000) and downloading
PyProtocols 0.9.2 the installer complains that python 2.2 isn't found
in the registry.

I've also tried to download the source and follow the instructions,
but since there's no compiler the setup complains. Since I cannot find
the latest 0.9.3 version I can't use the --without-speedups to bypass
the compilation phase...

I also have cygwin and could try the rpm's, but I have (yet) very
little experience on it, so I don't wanna go that route.

Anyone got any suggestions?

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 18:19:04 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (=?gb2312?q?Anthony=20Liu?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:19:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unicode is driving me nuts!
Message-ID: <20040312231904.63687.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>

I am trying to parse a huge Chinese corpus uing
python, and I am having a hard time handling the
Chinese characters.

I need to get some particular Chinese characters that
meet a certain standard one by one from the corpus.

Before I parse a sentence and try to locate the
character, I unicode the whole string I read in like
so:

str = unicode(raw_str, myencoding)

I used 'gbk' and 'cp936' encoding for example.

This works just fine with a small sample Chinese
document.

But when I attempted to run the script on the entire
corpus, I get the typical "incomplete multibyte
sequence error" or "UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec
can't encode characters in position 0-23: ordinal not
in range(128)"

I am at my wit's end, so frustrated at handling
non-ascii texts.

Any hint would be highly appreciated.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? 
??????????????????60???????
http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/?http://cn.mail.yahoo.com



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Mar 16 21:19:12 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:19:12 GMT
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <AAO5c.22495$8G2.22125@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> I was once asked on an interview how I would tell, inside of a C 
> program, if I was on a big endian or a small endian machine.  I said I'd 
> create a union of a long and a char[4], set the long equal to 1, and see 
> which char it showed up in.  The interviewer looked shocked, thought 
> about it for a while, and finally said something like, "yeah, I guess 
> that would work".
> 
> To this day, I have no idea what other plan he had in mind.


Here's my guess:

long i = 0;
*(short*)&i = 1;

if (i == 1) { printf("It's whatever one Intel uses.\n"); }
else { printf("It's the other one.\n"); }


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From john at neggie.net  Wed Mar 24 14:58:30 2004
From: john at neggie.net (John Belmonte)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:58:30 -0500
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <20040324185134.GD11883@unpythonic.net>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
	<20040324185134.GD11883@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <4061E866.8050408@neggie.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:
>     nullfile = file(nullfilename, "r+b")

I forgot that /dev/null can be used as input too.  So maybe there should 
be os.nullin and os.nullout, or again, only provide os.nullfilename and 
let the user manage the actual file object.

-John


-- 
http:// if  ile.org/



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar  8 19:57:29 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:57:29 -0000
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <slrnc4ptnh.v3n.grey@dmiyu.org>
	<2004030818081575249%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <104q5jpg86q2udf@corp.supernews.com>

In article <2004030818081575249%cs1spw at bathacuk>,
Simon Willison  <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
>On 2004-03-08 16:42:57 -0600, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> said:
>>     Install Mailman and make the list postable only by you.  :P
>
>We've already looked at mailman and a number of other packages. None of 
>them fit our requirements as we need to be able to tie the list 
>administration in to our existing user authentication / admin control 
>panel, plus we want to tie the email lists to our membership databases. 
>We've got most of the other infrastructure already, we just need an 
>efficient way of sending out bulk emails to a large list of addresses.
			.
			.
			.
Give us a notion of scope.  Does "large list" mean to you a thousand?
Hundred thousand?  Ten million?  How often are you sending out e-mail?

I'm likely to conclude this is more about SMTP than Python.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 30 22:45:01 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:45:01 -0500
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com><4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com><40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com><4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com><40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com><405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com><40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com><40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com><40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com><4064C072.62D8E489@alcyone.com><40200384.0403290426.5aca2b2d@posting.google.com>
	<BC8F332F.130C3%fred.mailhot@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <c4derm$i37$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Fred Mailhot" <fred.mailhot at videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:BC8F332F.130C3%fred.mailhot at videotron.ca...

> >>> Consider for instance the following definition:
> >>> * all strings and numbers are called "well-founded"
> >>> * a list is called well-founded if and only if all its elements are
> >>> well-founded.

> Seems to me that the example given makes it clear that l is not
> well-founded.

No.  In my experience, the standard interpretation of such definitions is
that the empty list (in this case) 'trivially satisfies' the condition
precisely because it has no elements to check for conformance.

In pure set theory, sets only have sets as members.  The empty set
'trivially satifies' this condition, to use the standard catchphrase.
Authors vary on whether this sort of this is said explicitly or not.

Terry J. Reedy






From philrob at HOLYflatnetSHIT.net  Thu Mar  4 03:06:42 2004
From: philrob at HOLYflatnetSHIT.net (Phil Roberts)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 02:06:42 -0600
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A252847798philroberts@216.196.97.132>

With total disregard for any kind of safety measures
dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) leapt forth and
uttered: 



> - Python gurus, when asked how to make something work, will
> often appear nasty and horrible, telling you you're doing
> entirely the wrong thing and you should go back to the drawing
> board. Much like the hot sting from a smack of a father's hand,
> this is good, not bad. It is there to direct and discipline you,
> and improve the way you think. 

> - PHP gurus tend to be experienced web developers, they'll be
> able to look flash and give you an answer on the spot, but that
> answer will only further lead to the demise of any structure
> your coding ever had. 
> 

So, by your logic Python developers tend to be self-important 
assholes whereas PHP developers will give you an answer, but they 
expect you to have enough knowledge to implement it correctly?

-- 
Phil Roberts | Dork Pretending To Be Hard | http://www.flatnet.net/


From gumuz at looze.net  Mon Mar 22 05:18:08 2004
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:18:08 +0100
Subject: values within quotes
Message-ID: <405ebd60$0$268$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

Hi all,

I looked on the web for this, but I couldn't find it.

I give my program commands like this: GET MODLIST

This is very easy to parse, I can just use .split() to because it has only
spaces to seperate the different parts of the command. Now I want, for
example, the following command: GET FILE C:\my docs\my file.txt. Obviously I
cannot use .split() for this one, because it uses spaces in the filename.
Common pc knowledge tells me that I should put the 'space-value' witin
quotes like: GET FILE "C:\my docs\my file.txt".

So the big question is: What is the best way to parse such a string?

kind regards,

Guyon




From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar 12 23:45:23 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:45:23 GMT
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
References: <mailman.340.1079150274.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Dlw4c.789400$X%5.393213@pd7tw2no>

dont bother wrote:

> I have a string:
> 
> feature_vector. It is of the form
> <index: value, index: value, index: value>
> 
> I want to make this string into a dictionary so that I
> can apply .keys() method

okay, here's a solution, assuming that your < and > are part of the string.
If not, remove the line where you take a slice.   I'm sure that there are
more Pythonic solutions, but this works...

---
import string

# define a test string
s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
# get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
s1 = s1[1:-1]
# split string at the commas
s2 = string.split(s1,',')
mydict = {}
for item in s2:
        a,b = string.split(item,":")
        mydict[a] = b
        print mydict[a]
print "Dictionary is: ", mydict
---

cheers
Stewart



From pete at shinners.org  Tue Mar  2 10:13:02 2004
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:13:02 -0800
Subject: Lua Book
In-Reply-To: <1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>	<du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c2289v$i5n$1@sea.gmane.org>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua?  Look at
> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.

I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples from the book 
may frighten me away for good.

http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html



I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather trivial.

def allwords():
     for line in sys.stdin:
         for word in line.split():
             yield word

for word in allwords():
     print word





From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 10 16:01:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:01:00 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
Message-ID: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>

Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python, is
easy to type, easy to read, and is clearly distinct from the "base"
syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
situations.  Examples:

print @(separator = None) x, y, z

@x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function

@f(x,y)         -- generator function that can accept new arguments
                   with each call

@x @y @z        -- short for instance variables in a method definition

Each of these examples is debatable, but my point is that there are
many enhancement requests like this, and some may be worthy of
inclusion in the core language.  It would be nice if there was a
consistent way to add stuff like this.  It certainly beats adding ugly
statements like 'lambda'.

It might even be possible to allow limited extension of the language
by users, provided the extensions are introduced by the special
symbol.  This would allow the flexibility of Ruby or Lisp without the
cost of forking the language into many dialects.

Maybe we should collect a bunch of little enhancements like the above,
and put them all into one PEP.  Any suggestions?  Pet peeves?  Stuff
you would like to see, but not worthy of a PEP by itself?

-- Dave



From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 23 01:39:23 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:39:23 -0700
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhvnfba.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403211310.15764495@posting.google.com>
	<7x4qshn64t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<fd5u50lqcbhtfr1r92n7lahmk3mn1npv5n@4ax.com>
	<7x3c809p3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <6tlv50p1ij59k66brutu161m47vrql1kuv@4ax.com>

On 22 Mar 2004 20:14:47 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
>> I'm still curious as to the answer to my very simple and basic
>> question:  Are there any examples that show a *non-subjective*
>> difference in a physically meaningful result between one PRNG and
>> another?  By "physically meaningful" I mean to include things like
>> means, standard deviations, correlations between two distributions,
>> but rule out some measure that would only mean something to a
>> mathematician.  By "non-subjective" I mean a difference that can be
>> observed in a repeatable fashion, where the statistical significance
>> is not always at the edge when you repeat the experiment with more
>> trials.
>
>Tim gave a good answer for stuff like physics simulations.  Another
>answer might be in terms of something like a computer game: you're
>playing poker online with the cards dealt by a server programmed in
>Python using some PRNG.  Both players trust that the server isn't
>cheating, and both have a complete copy of the server source code and
>all the data that was on it at the start of the game except the PRNG's
>initial seed, and are permitted to use that info in any way they can.
>Since you're playing for a US$ 250,000 jackpot (sites like
>partypoker.com routinely run online tournaments with prizes that
>size), you must assume that your opponent has a team of mathemeticians
>analyzing the PRNG algorithm and all its previous observed output, in
>order to get some probabilistic edge in guessing what your cards are.
>If they fail to get that probabilistic edge, your chances are even,
>but if they succeed, they take you to the cleaners.  I would call that
>a non-sujective difference ;-).  
>
>Another simulation example: you're trying to program a computer to
>play poker or backgammon, using neural nets, genetic algorithms, or
>whatever the AI buzzword of the week is.  You train the AI by having
>it play a zillion simulated games against itself and eventually it's
>playing very well.  Has it really tuned itself for the game, or has it
>somehow modelled the PRNG and figured out how to guess the next card?
>Simulating systems with this kind of emergent behavior can make
>heavier demands on PRNG's than simulating random gas molecules.
>
>The point is, a pure statistical analysis of the swirling particles in
>the universe may predict the existence of stars, galaxies, planets,
>and maybe even living organisms, but normally won't treat emergent
>characteristics that lead to things like computers and trombones.  If
>you're trying to build a laser cannon to protect your house from
>meteors, it's one thing to calculate the number of stray asteroids
>whose trajectories might randomly intersect your house and build your
>laser accordingly, but a really good defense system has to allow that
>someone may be aiming stuff at you deliberately.  Similarly, a really
>good PRNG has to resist deliberate attempts to predict its output or
>even to notice that the output isn't perfectly random.
>
>The modern definition of a good PRNG basically says there should be no
>polynomial-time algorithm for distinguishing the PRNG from a true
>random source with probability better than chance.  There's a body of
>theoretical CS work that's been done on this subject.  See the
>pseudorandomness chapter of Goldreich's "Foundations of Cryptography" at
>
>   ftp://theory.lcs.mit.edu/pub/people/oded/BookFrag/part3N.ps
>
>if you want to see the details.

These are all good examples of *cryptographic* weaknesses in simple
PRNGs, which is really a different problem than weaknesses which would
lead to an incorrect result in a physical or engineering simulation.
In my earlier debate with the statistical tools salesmen, I was aware
of these cryptographic weaknesses.  I wasn't aware of the "clustering"
kind of phenomena, like the one Tim pointed out, that *could* have an
effect on our circuit simulations.

>Of course nobody has ever been able to demonstrate the existence of a
>good PRNG, since that runs smack into the P vs NP problem.  However,
>there are solid results showing how to build PRNG's from secure
>primitives (e.g. SHA) if we're willing to assume the security claims
>for those primitives.  That seems to be about what the current state
>of the art is.

Looks like the engineering problem should be simpler than the
cryptographic problem, which ultimately comes down to -- can you
generate a sequence so complex that no human mind or computational
process can ever 'decipher' it.  I'm guessing now that if the
distributions appear 'smooth' in every direction, we are probably OK
in the engineering sense.  I'm not going to rely on that guess,
however.  For now, I'll just go with an algorithm like Mersenne
Twister, that lots of smart people have looked at for a long time and
found nothing that would impact an engineering simulation.

-- Dave





From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 22:36:33 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:36:33 +0000
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <mailman.102.1078694269.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <maqn40ts3k69q6dhac5g6g8ovo6fe21o68@4ax.com>

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:16:22 -0800, "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org>
wrote:

>That is, you need to find the perfect balance between power and
>simplicity, then throw that estimate away and dumb it down by a factor
>of 10 (for non-engineers, 100 ;).

Ah yes - and of course the executive summary comes in two basic
forms...

Early in the development lifecycle...        :-)

When reality sets in...                      :-(


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Tue Mar 30 10:34:04 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:34:04 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4c3uk$646$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> The first time I launched IDLE, it took almost three seconds.  (I don't
> have the Python installer compile .py files ahead of time.)  After that
> it takes about one second as well.

Compiling is not the problem. The time for first launch is spent
for loading ~ 10 MB of executables into memory. I tried this
on my Win2000, 800 MHz, 256 MByte computer:

- start wxpython app (stand alone tree.py from the demo): ~ 3-4 sec
- repeat start: < 1 sec
- delete *.pyc, repeat start: < 1 sec
- reboot, repeat start with *.pyc: ~ 3-4 sec

I was watching system performance simultaneously and noticed a
decrease of free RAM memory by ~ 10 MB on starting and the same
increase on stopping. But the dlls - once loaded - apparently
are kept in RAM.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From scummer at 3squares.com  Wed Mar 31 13:02:45 2004
From: scummer at 3squares.com (scummer)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 10:02:45 -0800
Subject: httplib HTTPConnection request problem
Message-ID: <1a378204.0403311002.7f8febea@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am having a problem with the httplib HTTPConnection object. While I
can easily send requests that don't have any payload (ie. "get"), I
encounter issues if I want to post xml data. If you look at the class
below, when req == 'getFreeBusyInfo' all functions perfectly, but when
req == 'conflictRequest' I run into problems of the nature "400 Bad
Request". As you will notice, I also tried the shorter HTTPConnection
instance method "request", feeding it a dictionary of the header
arguments and the xml payload, but that didn't fly either. With the
headers in this format, I get the error:

AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'iteritems' in line 737
of httplib.py

However, this dictionary format is exactly the same as what I found in
an example in the python documentation.

Class description and example of the xml payload are as follows:

class Connector:
	def __init__(self, server):
		self.server = 'http://'+server
		#self.h1 = httplib.HTTPConnection('my.proxy.org', 3128)
		self.h1 = httplib.HTTPConnection('xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx', 80)

	def sendInfo(self, req, confDict, xml=None):
		print xml
		if req == 'getFreeBusyInfo':
			self.h1.putrequest('GET',
self.server+"/servlet/webdav.freebusy?username="+confDict['users']+"&server=netline.de&start="+str(confDict['request_start'])+"&end="+str(confDict['request_end']))
			self.h1.putheader('Accept-Language', 'de, en-us;q=0.2')
			self.h1.putheader('Translate', 'f')
			self.h1.putheader('User-Agent', 'SLOX HolidayInfo')
			self.h1.putheader('Host', self.server)
			self.h1.endheaders()
		elif req == 'conflictRequest':
			self.h1.putrequest("POST",
self.server+"/servlet/webdav.calendar/conflict.xml")
			self.h1.putheader("Accept-Language", "de, en-us;q=0.2")
			self.h1.putheader("Translate", "f")
			self.h1.putheader("User-Agent", "SLOX HolidayInfo")
			self.h1.putheader("Host", confDict['server'])
			self.h1.putheader("Content-Length", str(len(xml)))
			self.h1.putheader("Authorization", "Basic
"+str(confDict['base64Auth']))
			self.h1.endheaders()
			self.h1.send(xml)
			#headers = {"Accept-Language": "de, en-us;q=0.2", "Translate": "f",
"User-Agent": "SLOX HolidayInfo", "Host": confDict['server'],
"Content-Length": str(len(xml)), "Authorization": "Basic
"+str(confDict['base64Auth'])}
			#self.h1.request('POST',
self.server+"/servlet/webdav.calendar/conflict.xml", headers, xml)

	def receiveInfo(self):
		rec = self.h1.getresponse()
		return rec

	def closeConnection(self):
		print 'Closing connection....'
		self.h1.close()
		

The XML data looks something like this:
				
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><D:multistatus
xmlns:D="DAV:"><D:propertyupdate
xmlns:D="DAV"><D:set><D:prop><S:begins
xmlns:S="SLOX:">1081807200000</S:begins><S:ends
xmlns:S="SLOX:">1081979940000</S:ends><S:clientid
xmlns:S="SLOX:">HolidyInfoID</S:clientid><S:folderid
xmlns:S="SLOX:"></S:folderid><S:title xmlns:S="SLOX:">HolidayInfo
Conflict Request</S:title><S:appointment_request
xmlns:S="SLOX:">yes</S:appointment_request><S:members
xmlns:S="SLOX:"><S:member>xyzxyz</S:member></S:members></D:prop></D:set></D:propertyupdate></D:multistatus>

Incidentally, I set this same thing up using sockets and everything
worked perfectly. However, I need to now use with a proxy so that is
why I moved to the  httplib module. I also tried the urllib2 module
but the only request data to be sent is
application/x-www-form-urlencoded and I need to send xml.

If someone can help me out here, I would certainly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Scum


From python at quixs.com  Mon Mar 15 07:58:39 2004
From: python at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:58:39 +0100
Subject: Seeking advice on GUI code architecture
In-Reply-To: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <299810855.20040315135839@quixs.com>

Hi Qp,

> My problem is this:  how do you keep your GUI code seperate from as much
> underlying code as possible?  As I begin, I find myself adding a lot of
[...]
> If anyone has tips, docs, or examples, I would greatly appreciate it.

I.e. Facade Pattern may help you to keep the GUI separate from the
underlying network / business logic:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FacadePattern

http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dbutler/tutorials/winter96/patterns/tutorial.html

Maybe there are more patterns which may fit your needs, but Facade is
one of them which might help. ;)

Best regards,
Lars




From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar 13 05:33:13 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:33:13 +0100
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files
	inthe Directory
References: <mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4052e35a$0$15642$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

import glob,os
filelist=glob.glob('/folder here/*') # retrieve your listing.
for file in filelist:
    if os.path.isfile(file):
      <do your stuff here>
-- 
Cheerz,
Ivo.
http://IvoNet.nl


============================
"Shalen chhabra" <shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Hey,
>
> Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the
files
> in the directory.
> For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python
program
> against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python
code
> instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be
cumbersome
> giving the argv of each file every single time.
>
> This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a
> flavour of python for this.
>
> Thanks
> Shalen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1!
> (Limited-time Offer)
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
>
>




From michael at foord.net  Mon Mar  8 03:14:30 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 00:14:30 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>

"Frithiof Andreas Jensen" <frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk> wrote in message news:<c29sh4$3id$1 at newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
> "Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
> news:8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929 at posting.google.com...
> > Gadfly looks like an interesting database system for python. I am
> > working on a couple of projects that may benefit from using a database
> > (on the other hand, these days - is there really aproblem with using
> > dictionaries that are a couple of meg in size and searching through
> > those ??).
> 
> That you will be reinventing the wheel - databases are good at dealing with
> storing stuff and ordering/querying for it in many different ways you did
> not think you would need when starting out.
> 
> You could even say that an SQL database can be an interface to the data
> produced by you application - if you need to stick a Report in a MS-Word
> document or Spreadsheet f.ex..
> 
> >
> > One of these projects is a customer feedback database that will be
> > installed on our intranet - so I was looking for a pure python
> > solution.....
> 
> Why "Pure Python"? Check the http://www.python.org/topics/database/ - if
> there is a Python DB-API for the database it is practically transparent to
> use it.
> 

Because I *won't* be allowed to install anything other than python
scripts on the server...........

So I am looking for a database implementation in python........



> > I thought Gadfly was a pure python implementation - however when I
> > download the package it looks like it's optimised to work with
> > kjBuckets and kwParsing.
> 
> *Optimised* yes - it will *work* without though.
> 

Hmm... I may have a look at it though.

As all I need are slimple database functions - the simple python
database 'Kirbybase' that I've found may be enough.

> Gadfly has some other issues: It is a limited SQL language implementation so
> f.ex. CHECK and KEY constraints will not work - you have to do the
> syncronising of linked tables and parameter checks "by hand" as it were.
> 

That probably wouldn't be a problem as all I need are relatively
simpel search functions (so far... this is a learning curve).

Regards,


Fuzzy


> PySQLite is the closest to a full SQL implementation of "the simple"
> databases - beyond that it is a Server; PostGresSQL f.ex. PySQLite comes
> with a rather complete SQL implementation. Being a file-based database there
> may be some locking issues preventing simultaneous access to your database
> depending on the version of windows you have and the version of PySQLite. It
> can be worked around.


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Mar 16 21:42:47 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:42:47 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <HWO5c.22496$8G2.9726@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

Andrew Koenig wrote:
> 
> 
> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c at posting.google.com...
> 
>> Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is unspecified
>> and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.
> 
> Hardly.  It has two fundamental properties, which can sometimes be useful:
> 
>    1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" yields True.
> 
>    2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True.  Equivalently, if
> "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also yields False.



Python 2.2.3c1 (#12, May 27 2003, 21:32:04) 
[GCC 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class a:  
...     def __eq__(x,y): return 0
... 
>>> b = a()
>>> b is b
1
>>> b == b
0


So I don't think we can call it a "fundamental property" (unless the
language has changed, which actually wouldn't surprise me).


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Mar  7 19:57:29 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:57:29 -0800
Subject: "print" as function not statement
Message-ID: <404BC4F9.6010507@prescod.net>

This is just a trial balloon. It isn't even in proper PEP format yet. 
Don't take it too personally!

Pre-pep for a show() built-in function.

	This pre-PEP describes a replacement for the Python print
	statement.  Obviously the replacement of such a popular
	statement will take time and cause dislocation. It must
	therefore be done very gradually and carefully.  Nevertheless,
	the print statement stands out in Python because of its
	quirky syntax and semantics. This PEP proposes to migrate
	the print statement towards standardized function syntax.

Problems with "print"

	New users are constantly asking how to print elements without
	trailing whitespace.

	The use of a trailing comma to disable newline has no clear
	relation to any other syntax elsewhere in Python.

	The cheveron syntax is similarly unique.

	"print" is the one of only two statement-generating keywords
	that is not a flow-control or scope-control operator.

	Because print is a statement, it cannot be used in contexts
	like list comprehensions and lambda functions.

	The word "print" is very common in English usage and would be
	very useful for method and function names. It is  a (very)
	long-term goal of this PEP to free it up for this purpose.

	"print" is one of the first thing a Python newbie learns but
	learning it teaches very little about the rest of the language.
	All of the idiosyncratic syntax you learn will never be seen
	again elsewhere in the language and 99.9% of non-control flow
	operations are performed with functions, not statements.

Proposed solution: "show"

	I propose a new built-in function called "show". It can take an
	arbitrary number of positional arguments and three optional
	keyword arguments:
	
		* separator - string to use to separate the string
		displays of the objects that are written. Defaults
		to a single space.

		* trailer - string that follows the string displays
		of the objects that are written. Defaults to a
		single newline.

		* to - a file object to write the strings to. Defaults
		to sys.stdout.

	Some examples:

		show(5)

		show(5, to = sys.stderr)

		show(5, 6, separator = ",")

		show(5, 6, trailer = "\n\n")

		show("Five", 5, "Six", 6)

		show(show)

Possible Extensions

	Debug-useful return value

		As a convenience, if the show function is passed a
		single object to show, it returns that object. If
		it is passed more then one, it returns them as a
		tuple. This can be very convenient in debugging
		contexts. Consider if you are trying to debug the
		statement:

		x = j[x].y(a[x])

		A traditional way to debug sub-parts of the expression
		is like this:

		temp1 = j[x]
		x = temp.y(a[x])

		But this code contortion can add bugs. A less
		invasive change is:

		x = show(j[x]).y(a[x])

		This involves no logic change.

	Softspace

		The current "print" statement has some sophisticated
		handling of newlines and leading separators. The
		Python community may feel that it is worthwhile to
		port these concepts to the show function. The current
		PEP author does not.

	Method syntax

		Various function objects could add a convenience method
		also called "show" with the semantics of:

		def show(self, *args, **kwargs):
			show(to=self, *args, **kwargs)

		This would allow constructs like:

		sys.stdout.show(5, trailer="**\n")

	Different name

		Of course the name "show" is not written in stone.

		"print" is not available because we are changing
		its semantics.

		"write" is not advisable because fileobject.write() 				means 
something related but different.
		
		"prn" is over-cryptic.






From malihi1 at 012.net.il  Thu Mar 11 09:52:05 2004
From: malihi1 at 012.net.il (Sagiv Malihi)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:52:05 +0200
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c2pnju$2t4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <40507d23$1@news.012.net.il>

what you would *really* like to do, is to be able to extend any class, and
override it's operators.
in your example, you would like to do something like:

def mul_funcs(self, other):
    def temp(*args, **kw):
        return self(other(*args, **kw))
    return temp

and then:
FunctionType.__mul__(self, other) = mul_funcs



"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote in message
news:c2pnju$2t4$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de...
> Radovan Garabik wrote:
> > or, without leaving ascii:
> >
> > def (x)composition(y):
> >     return lambda par: x(y(par))
> > print (a composition b)(x)
>
> or without leaving Python
>
> class Composition:
>     def __init__ (self, outer, inner):
>         self.outer = outer
>         self.inner = inner
>
>     def __call__ (self, *args):
>         return self.outer (self.inner (*args))
>
>     def __str__ (self):
>         return '%s ? %s' % (self.outer, self.inner)
>
> Daniel
>
>
>




From eric at zomething.com  Tue Mar 23 22:29:08 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:29:08 -0800
Subject: Can this be done with python?
Message-ID: <20040323192908.1553790526.eric@zomething.com>

wolfke9 wrote:

> -have a button opening a 'open file' dialog, eg when I need a user to
> search for an image


while I am sure you will want to build something event driven and object oriented, something architected to your purposes using one of the many nice GUI kits available, I am still tickled that I can open a file dialog box and get a file selection into a variable this easily (2 lines):

>>> from easygui import *
>>> fileName=fileopenbox()
>>> print fileName
C:/Documents and Settings/E P/Desktop/The_Art_of_War__Sun_Tzu.txt


it's just so handy and encouraging, it's how I get any file path I need.

Eric


http://www.ferg.org/easygui/



From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Thu Mar 25 05:18:50 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:18:50 +1200
Subject: PyPI Enhancements
Message-ID: <4062B20A.1000109@rebirthing.co.nz>

Hi,

I'm just looking through the PyPI tutorial, liking the fact that it's 
now integrated with distutils, but seeing room for much more.

Is any work being done to add some CPAN-like or apt-like features to PyPI?

On first look, it doesn't appear that it would be too hard to add some 
debian apt-like features such as:

* ability to declare dependencies in the setup.py metadata
* a pypi directory inside the python directory tree, containing:
    * package source trees
    * cached list and dependency tree
    * list of what's installed and what isn't
    * an apt-like 'sources.list', whereby people can at their
      discretion add supplementary download sources or mirrors
* a pypi command, which:
    * searches/lists/downloads desired package(s)
    * caches a dependency tree
    * when trying to build or install a new package, builds a tree
      of unfulfilled dependencies, and asks for permission to
      download/build(/install) the dependencies

I'd see it ideally working a bit like Debian's 'apt-get' and
'apt-cache' commands.

For instance:

  - pypi search <keyword> [<keyword>...]
  - pypi download <pkgname> [<pkgname>...]
  - pypi build <pkgname> [<pkgname>...]
  - pypi install <pkgname> [<pkgname>...]

The 'download', 'build' and 'install' commands would require root, and 
would cause packages to get downloaded into a pypi directory within the 
python lib. If these packages have unfulfilled dependencies, pypi (like 
Debian's 'apt') would list the additional packages and ask for 
permission to build/install these as well.

Also:
  - pypi enable-auto

This would install dummy modules for all non-installed packages. When a 
program tries to import an uninstalled package, pypi terminates the 
program with a PypiNotInstalled exception, telling the user to become 
root and install the missing packages (of course, listing the packages 
needing to be installed.

Thoughts?

Cheers
David



From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 10:39:27 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:39:27 GMT
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <10637ibo30epo6f at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>> There's a fair amount of analysis on the best method, actually.  In this
>> case, "Guido's choice" is probably a good one.  (Normally it's done by
>> counting the relative magnitude of each pairwise win and things like
>> that.  I'm not clear on whether the existance of a cycle means everyone
>> in the cycle is really a tossup or if it's fuzzier.)
> 
> Your comments indicate you're probably much more in touch with
> voting method theory than I am! My take on it is that it needs to be
> done using availible data - that is, the original votes.

I spent a while hanging out on the election-methods mailing list after
the last US election, and discovered it was basically a big
Condorcet-vs-IRV flame war.  There's a good summary of lots of methods at
http://electionmethods.org/, although it's pretty biased towards
Condorcet.

(The crux of the flamewar is that Condorcet tends to elect
"compromise candidates" who are few peoples' favourite but palatable to
most, while IRV is more likely to elect people that are the first choice
of a large block but hated by others.  Which is preferable is a matter
of philosophy.)

> I don't know if the original data on PEP 308 is still availible. It would
> be interesting (although it might just be throwing fuel on a fire that
> should
> be allowed to die down) to reanalyze it (and I don't know if I'm
> volunteering
> to do it or not!)

It's at the end of http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html.  I haven't
looked at it in detail, but it looks wacky.

Joe


From lrutledge at realemail.net  Mon Mar 22 09:49:42 2004
From: lrutledge at realemail.net (Lincoln Rutledge)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:49:42 -0500
Subject: galagASCII
Message-ID: <1079966982.1784.183098800@webmail.messagingengine.com>

That's right, it's a kind of Galaga for your terminal.  It sucks and is
broken in many ways.  The current development version is going to live
here for a while:

http://www.lnlattorneys.com/scratch/galagASCII.py

Just needs curses and random so far.

Press "l" to go right, "j" to go left, "space" to fire, "q" to quit.

Lots of bugs so when it dies, you may have to re-login b/c the terminal
is in a wierd mode thanks to curses.endwin() not getting run...

Since the window is 80x24, it is only mathematically possible to hit
about one in four aliens right now...

Each loop through is generated by your input, in other words it waits for
getch() before iterating to the next movement.  So you can single-step
through the failure...

The aliens collect on the bottom of the screen today, which is better
than yesterday when they never came down the screen at all...

I swear this wasn't so complicated when I did this in 7th grade on the
C64.  I even used a joystick and had custom graphics...

You can play it as is now though, and the code is less than 200 lines.

Have fun :)

Lincoln

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.



From wweston at att.net  Wed Mar  3 14:42:20 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:42:20 GMT
Subject: insertion in lists
In-Reply-To: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <wyq1c.69037$aH3.2108354@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>



Lupe wrote:
> hi,
> 
> I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me to be
> the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining of
> the program.
> 
> if I have:
>         element
> 
>         list [0]
> and want to have list[0][0]
>                  list[0][1]
> 
> how can I insert the element to that list[0][0], for example?
> just to put things clearer, if I wanted to insert the element in list[0] I
> could do list.insert(0,element).
> 
> I've tried list[0].insert(0,element) but gives me an error.
> 
> 
> Luis

Luis,
    Is this what you want?

 >>> list = []
 >>> list.insert(0,[])
 >>> list[0].insert(0,5)
 >>> list
[[5]]

wes



From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Thu Mar 18 09:51:43 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:51:43 -0500
Subject: dictionary wart
In-Reply-To: <5Bi6c.11865$g4.240193@news2.nokia.com>
References: <mailman.128.1079618371.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5Bi6c.11865$g4.240193@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <20040318145143.GA19107@mail.theserver.ath.cx>

# That's a good point - thanks.
# 
# I think I will do it that way - but I still think it is a feature 
# lacking from the core language.

It's not lacking from the "core" language.  It was just shown that it
is, in fact, something you can accomplish by using the "core"
language.

Python isn't ruby; so don't compare them.

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar  6 11:57:33 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:57:33 -0500
Subject: BayPIGgies: March 11, 7:30pm
Message-ID: <20040306165733.GA20860@panix.com>

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs March 11 at 7:30pm.  This
meeting will have two sessions: 

* A new users experience of learning Python -- where the speaker asks
the questions and the audience provides the answers.  This session will
be especially useful to other new Pythonistas.

* An overview of a QA framework for enterprise applications

BayPIGgies meetings are in Stanford, California.  For more information
and directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar 19 15:36:26 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:36:26 -0500
Subject: Announcement - PyMatrix
Message-ID: <405B59CA.9070804@sympatico.ca>


PyMatrix is a package, based on numarray, which provides matrix 
arithmetic for the Python user.

This is version 0.0.0b Pre-Alpha release.  Thanks to those who commented 
on the initial release in November 2003.

The package is available for download from: 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix.

I would appreciate comments on the current functionality and suggestions 
as to other capabilities which could usefully be integrated into the 
package.

Prerequisite: numarray 0.9, which is available from:  
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=1369

The package has been developed under Windows.  Reports of usage under 
Linux would be of particular interest.

Colin W.



From luis_ at iname.com  Wed Mar  3 14:52:34 2004
From: luis_ at iname.com (Lupe)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:52:34 +0000
Subject: insertion in lists
References: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<wyq1c.69037$aH3.2108354@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <c25d0d$1pjfr0$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>

wes weston wrote:

> 
> 
> Lupe wrote:
>> hi,
>> 
>> I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me to
>> be the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining
>> of the program.
>> 
>> if I have:
>>         element
>> 
>>         list [0]
>> and want to have list[0][0]
>>                  list[0][1]
>> 
>> how can I insert the element to that list[0][0], for example?
>> just to put things clearer, if I wanted to insert the element in list[0]
>> I could do list.insert(0,element).
>> 
>> I've tried list[0].insert(0,element) but gives me an error.
>> 
>> 
>> Luis
> 
> Luis,
>     Is this what you want?
> 
>  >>> list = []
>  >>> list.insert(0,[])
>  >>> list[0].insert(0,5)
>  >>> list
> [[5]]
> 
> wes

yes, it works for me!
Now I see why it wasn't working.
Thanks a lot!

Luis


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 08:56:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:56:26 -0600
Subject: Python on Mac OS X doesn't have gdbm
In-Reply-To: <ef08387c.0403112103.33130dca@posting.google.com>
References: <ef08387c.0403112103.33130dca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16465.49546.602465.350026@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    fp> The default Python on Mac OS X is 2.3 but doesn't come with gdbm. Did
    fp> anyone try to get the source of gdbm and build it, and somehow built
    fp> the gdbm module for Python on Mac OS X? If so could you share a few
    fp> hints? It'll save me lots of time trying.

The only hint I can share is to ask on the pythonmac-sig at python.org mailing
list.

Skip




From paschen at mavd.de  Mon Mar 22 05:26:41 2004
From: paschen at mavd.de (Bjoern Paschen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:26:41 +0100
Subject: Syntax of 'in' : searching a list for a string
References: <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079951181.682583@mail.mavd.de>

MarieR wrote:

> I want to check whether the string 'Remove' is present in a list
> 'supportList', but if I do
> if ('Remove') in supportList:
> or
> if 'Remove' in supportList:
> I get the error message
> 'in ' requires character as left operand.

for i in supportList:
    if i == 'Remove':
        doSomething()

I am sure there is a shorter way, but this will work.

Bjoern


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Mon Mar  1 14:52:55 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:52:55 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>

mb at muenster.de (Martin Bless) wrote in
news:40448d4f.8911015 at news.muenster.de: 

[...]
> Ok, then back to where I startet. Let me asked again:
> 
> "Can we have an additional 'print' statement, that behaves
> exactly like 'print' but doesn't insert blanks between
> arguments?" 
> 

Probably not. 

I've wondered, though, whether there couldn't be a different 
character instead of a ',' to alter the behavior of print. Maybe a 
trailing '+' to indicate that what follows is to concatenate 
directly. 

And yet I've been able to work around that little annoyance; it's not 
that there is no way to format output the way you want.

-- 
rzed



From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar  1 15:30:06 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:30:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Ann] Tutorial on discretizing time series with numarray
Message-ID: <slrnc477ae.ddb.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

I just threw together a short tutorial on discretizing with Numarray:

  http://hetland.org/python/disc-with-numarray

It deals with simple stuff, such as sliding windows, mapping from
reals to ints using bins/boundaries and mapping ints to symbols. Just
stuff that I've needed repeatedly myself, so I thought I'd share what
I'd dug up.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland           "The mind is not a vessel to be filled,
http://hetland.org            but a fire to be lighted."  [Plutarch]


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar  7 12:48:30 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:48:30 -0500
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>

"Kylotan" <kylotan at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6 at posting.google.com...
> Today I tried to implement some sort of unit testing into my program
> for the first time, and must admit to being a little disillusioned
> with the process. Mainly, my issue is that in my program, the classes
> are so tightly coupled that testing in isolation is next to
> impossible.
>
> The main problem stems from the fact that I try to ensure that all my
> objects are created in a working state. This often means passing
> various other objects to the __init__ function. In turn, these other
> objects rely on others, and on general initialisation procedures. The
> end result is that there are very few objects I can truly test in
> isolation; I have to initialise at least 80% of the system before I
> can even create most of my objects. This ends up meaning that unit
> testing isn't really testing a single unit at all, and in fact isn't
> much more precise than liberally using asserts in the normal code.
>
> One way out of this would be to reduce coupling. This would allow me
> to test objects in relative isolation, but it would increase the
> amount of explicit coupling code that I'd have to execute normally.
> This extra code then becomes a potential source of new bugs.
>
> Has anybody else come to similar conclusions?

Coupling is the enemy.

The XP people have a lot of experiance with reducing
coupling. Writing tests first, and insisting that literally
hundreds of unit tests run in a few seconds teaches you
how to write code with a minimum of coupling. Some of
those lessons aren't particularly easy.

I'm very much a fan of creating objects in a state so that
the object invariants pass. I've got two suggestions.

The first is to see if you can redesign using a layered
architecture. That may force you to reduce the number
of objects that any given object depends on.

The second is to investigate mock objects, or other
methods of stubbing out dependencies. While you do
need to run the entire system as a unit, there is no
reason you need to run the real production objects
for all tests.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Ben Sizer




From klapotec at chello.at  Fri Mar  5 04:03:24 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 01:03:24 -0800
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <d28ac2c5.0403050103.2624ea51@posting.google.com>

[David M Cook]:
> I would call it *pragmatically* implemented OOP.  It's not
> "proper" as some would see it.

[Ville Vainio]:
> Elaborate?

[John Roth]
> As I understand it, there are a number of issues.

> 1. Lack of method polymorphism

> 2. Use of built-in functions instead of "proper" methods.

> 3. ability to declare functions and variables at the
> module level.

Ad 2 and 3... well, practicality/pragmatism beats purity, once again.
Right now I'm struggling with the stupidity of Java (whether it's got
properly implemented OOP is another issue) in order to get certified
(since doing Python for a living is as yet a severely limited option
for me, despite evangelism). Guess I'm just spoiled.
Ad 1... I've yet to get involved in projects big/complicated enough
where I could conceivably benefit from that, so I don't miss it.

Christopher


From noah at noah.org  Fri Mar 19 21:27:54 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 18:27:54 -0800
Subject: popen problem
References: <mailman.79.1079528541.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403191827.2404058f@posting.google.com>

Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.79.1079528541.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I don't know if this is a Python problem or not. Here is a snippet:
> import os
> TERM='\n\r\n\r'
> cmd = 'cu -l /dev/cuaa0 -s9600'
> pop = os.popen4(cmd,1)
> pop[0].write('AT'+TERM) # Ping modem
>...
> 1. The first read blocks.
> 2. When I do 'killall cu' in another shell, it starts to read this:
> '\0x7Connected.'
> 'cu: Got interrupt signal'
> It seems that the first line ('Connected.') if buffered somewhere. I 
> guess 'OK' is also buffered but it is not read because of the interrup.
> Is it a problem with Linux of Python? Or is it a big difference between 
> /dev/ttyS0 and /dev/cuaa0?

Yes, it's buffer madness. This is a common problem with trying to use
a pipe with a child application that uses the stdio library -- which
is just about everything (does it #include <stdio.h>?) The annoying
thing is that it might seem to work sometimes, but then other times it
fails. Plus it's very platform dependent... When you kill the child
from another shell you are causing it to flush its buffer.
Unfortunately that's the only way that I know that you can force it to
flush the buffer -- not very practical.

Instead you should use my marvelous pexpect module.
    http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
It's fun and educational and it's written in 100% pure, refreshing
Python, so it installs easily with no C extension hassles.

One of the features of the stdio library is that it buffers all input
and output. Normally output is line buffered when a program is
printing to a TTY (your terminal screen). Everytime the program prints
a line-feed the currently buffered data will get printed to your
screen. The problem comes when you connect a pipe. The stdio library
is smart and can tell that it is printing to a pipe instead of a TTY.
In that case it switches from line buffer mode to block buffered. In
this mode the currently buffered data is flushed when the BUFFER IS
FULL NOT WHEN THE CHILD PRINTS A LINE FEED. This causes most
interactive programs to deadlock. Block buffering is more efficient
when writing to disks and pipes. Take the situation where a program
prints a message "Enter your user name:\n" and then waits for you type
type something. In block buffered mode, the stdio library will not put
the message into the pipe even though a linefeed is printed. The
result is that you never receive the message, yet the child
application will sit and wait for you to type a response. Don't
confuse the stdio library buffer of the child with your pipe's buffer.
You could flush the your pipe, but that only flushes your output
stream, whereas you have no control over the stdio library buffer.

You can't force the child to flush it's stdout stream.
You can't force the child to change the buffer state to line
buffering.

Odd, but this is the second time today that I've seen this question
come up...

Yours,
Noah


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Mar  4 08:56:11 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 15:56:11 +0200
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7wu60ra10.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "R" == R Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com> writes:

    R> If you do *programming* without knowing what to pass to a
    R> function or what a function returns, you're a complete idiot as
    R> a idiot can be.  Moreover, if you take it as an argument

Occasionally, in absence of static typing, you might accidentally call
a function using a return value of another function as an argument and
they are not compatible. W/ python you notice it immediately; with PHP
or Perl your program starts behaving weirdly (if you don't check
return values that is) and you can't pinpoint exactly what went
wrong. This is what makes people run to statically typed languages,
believing that all dynamic typing is shoddy like this.

    R> against PHP, you're yet another ignorant and obviously you
    R> don't have any rights to speak about PHP nor anything.

I wasn't really talking about PHP, but the approach you took to attack
the arguments of OP (arguments which I agree w/ BTW, but that's
another story).

    R> Yes, people with functioning brain may already conculded that
    R> when you posted your previous message itself.

Previous message? The one you were replying to was the first I posted
to this thread.

    >>  Neither is c.l.py. Actually, we have remarkably few idiots in
    >> c.l.py.

    R> No problem. I could see here itself
    R> <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=403fa54b%40news.zianet.com>

Great.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Mar 16 06:29:00 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 03:29:00 -0800
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>	<1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.11.1079300054.682.python-list@python.org>
	<c33rct$n11$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0403160329.5ee63ec8@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c33rct$n11$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > In Linux, you can get a lot of information on hardware and status by examining 
> > files in the /proc directory. For example, from doing cat /proc/cpuinfo on my 
> > system:
> [snip proc info]
> 
> [snip Windows env vars examples]
>
> There is likely a better and faster way for both by using pywin32 
> (current name for win32 extensions).
> 

For this kind of thing on Win32, WMI is very useful. 
Check out:

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html

In theory, something equivalent should be available for Linux:
WMI is based on the DMTF / WBEM industry standard. However
as it stands this module is completely windows-centric, 
relying as it does on Microsoft's implementation of the 
standard and the pywin32 libraries. 
Not to say someone couldn't merge it with some equivalent 
Linux implementation if there were one and someone had the time...

TJG


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 07:57:14 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:57:14 +0200
Subject: Backing up objects in db file
In-Reply-To: <9y8qh7x9h.fsf@random-node.example.org>
References: <w5ad2xaolr.fsf@random-node.example.org>
	<4046D622.1070801@zoran.com>
	<9y8qh7x9h.fsf@random-node.example.org>
Message-ID: <404727AA.8010709@zoran.com>

Hello Chris,

>>Maybe use Zope DB?
> 
> 
> Does that store objects using a portable text format ?  I thought it used
Don't know. I just know Zope has an object DB.

Miki


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 25 13:18:45 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:18:45 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org><1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10668kumh56hm5b@news.supernews.com>


"Shane Hathaway" <shane at zope.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list at python.org...
> John Roth wrote:
> > If you can make a contribution to a good syntax for
> > a code block, I for one would welcome it.
> >
> > Just to give you a start: Ruby puts a single code block
> > at the end of the parameter list where it's quite obvious
> > what it is and where it does not interrupt the flow of reading
> > the method call. In python, I'd like to be able to put code
> > blocks wherever I can currently put a function / method
> > object.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > result = map(lambda: ..., list1, list2, list3)
> >
> > is readable - barely.
> >
> > result = map(def (x, y, z):
> >                       something
> >                       something else
> >                       return
> >                   list1, list2, list3)
> >
> > becomes much less readable. This is the problem that
> > needs to be solved to make code blocks fly.
>
> That's one of the things I'm trying to achieve, too.  Using this syntax,
> I would write it this way:
>
> result = map(def(x, y, z), list1, list2, list3):
>      something
>      something else
>      return x

Now, that's got some real possibilities. At least it doesn't
embed statement indentation problems in the middle of
expression (lack of) indentation.

As a couple of other responders have mentioned, it
doesn't generalize all that well to multiple def's in one
function call, nor does it generalize all that well to having
one embedded in a control statement header (like an if
or for statement).

I personally don't think restricting those cases would be
a significant issue, though. At least, it isn't for me, although
the lack of orthogonality might bother some other people.

John Roth
>
> Shane
>




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Mar 24 10:31:53 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:31:53 +0100
Subject: zxJDBC driver error
In-Reply-To: <4061A600.40001@zslide.com>
References: <4061A600.40001@zslide.com>
Message-ID: <4061A9E9.3000202@ghaering.de>

vincent Salaun wrote:
>    hi all,
> 
> i'm trying to use the zxJDBC module to work on my mySql database, but :
>  >>> from com.ziclix.python.sql import zxJDBC
>  >>> d, u, p, v = "jdbc:mysql://localhost/test", "user", "pass", 
> "org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver"
>  >>> db = zxJDBC.connect(d, u, p, v)
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
> DatabaseError: driver not found

Install the JDBC driver for MySQL.

-- Gerhard



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 13:28:50 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:28:50 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16469.62946.463108.7211@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> In general, I don't think that disabling immutable object sharing
    >> would be worth the effort.  Consider the meaning of module level
    >> integers.  In my experience they are generally constants and are
    >> infrequently changed once set.  Probably the only thing worth
    >> tracking down during a super reload would be function, class and
    >> method definitions.

    Dave> If you reload a module M1, and it has an attribute M1.x, which was
    Dave> changed from '1' to '2', we want to change also any references
    Dave> that may have been created with statements like 'x = M1.x', or
    Dave> 'from M1 import *' If we don't do this, reload() will continue to
    Dave> baffle and frustrate new users.  Typically, they think they have
    Dave> just one variable 'x'

Like I said, I think that sort of change will be relatively rare.  Just tell
your users, "don't do that".

    Dave> I'm having trouble understanding the benefit of using shared
    Dave> objects for simple numbers and strings.  

Can you say "space and time savings"?  Ints are 12 bytes, strings are 24
bytes (plus the storage for the string), None is 8 bytes.  It adds up.  More
importantly, small ints, interned strings and None would constantly be
created and freed.  The performance savings of sharing them are probably
much more important.

Finally, from a semantic viewpoint, knowing that None is defined by the
language to be a singleton object allows the more efficient "is" operator to
be used when testing objects against None for equality.  If you allowed many
copies of that object that wouldn't work.

    Dave> We should at least have a special 'debug' mode in which the hidden
    Dave> sharing of objects is disabled for selected modules. 

It might help with your problem but would change the semantics of the
language.

Skip



From gregorleban at email.si  Wed Mar 10 04:32:59 2004
From: gregorleban at email.si (Gregor Leban)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:32:59 +0100
Subject: open default web browser using python
Message-ID: <c2mncf$s58$1@planja.arnes.si>

Hi,

Our team is working on a data mining software written in python that will
run on windows, linux and mac platforms. When clicking on one of the menu
items, we would like to open the default web browser for that platform with
a specific html page. Is there any python function that can do that?

Thanks,

Gregor




From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 22 14:34:27 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:34:27 -0700
Subject: PyQt database example
References: <hAw7c.2215$zf6.29943@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <vneu50p2daafuhi208tap5ulf33jb7ipmj@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:30:18 +0100, "Leif B. Kristensen"
<junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:

>Can somebody point me to a quick example on how to display the result of
>an SQL query in a PyQt QListBox? I've googled in vain for this.

Assuming you can get the results of your SQL query into string form,
it should be just a matter of inserting those strings into your
widget.

I don't know if this will help you, but here is a snip from one of my
classes where I am processing a list of text lines and displaying
those lines in a QTextEdit widget.  The fields in each line are padded
to make everything come out in nice columns.

The snag that hung me up when I first started using PyQt was not
realizing that the "QStrings" that come out of a Qt widget (a C++
thingy) have to be converted to Python strings ( with the str function
).  It's OK going the other way, however.  You can insert a Python
string ( p below ) into a PyQt widget.

    def slotParse(self):
        self.outputTextLabel.setText(self.simComboBox.currentText())
        pystring = str(self.textEdit1.text())  # Convert QString to
pystring
        modlist = pystring.splitlines()
        plist = parseMods(modlist)
        for p in plist:
            self.textEdit2.insert(p + '\n')

-- Dave



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Mar 27 17:26:08 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:26:08 -0800
Subject: problems with MySQLdb
Message-ID: <4065FF80.4060404@mlug.missouri.edu>

Is there a mailing list or anything like that for users of the MySQLdb 
module?

Using version 0.9.2 with Python 2.3.2 and whenever I try to open a 
connection I get this error:

  File "/home/webserver/localhost/dvdlookup/MyMySQL.py", line 23, in 
_connect
    passwd = self.password, db = self.db )
  File 
"/home/webserver/python2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py", 
line 63, in Connect
    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
  File 
"/home/webserver/python2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", 
line 116, in __init__
    self.converter[types.StringType] = self.string_literal
TypeError: object does not support item assignment
Segmentation fault


This code has worked with older combination of Python and MySQLdb. Any 
idea what's wrong?

Here is the code that accesses MySQLdb:

self.connection = MySQLdb.connect (
                        host = self.host, user = self.user,
                        passwd = self.password, db = self.db )

Thanks.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 23 16:01:46 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 16:01:46 -0500
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3q8jq$aj4$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b at posting.google.com>,
Jesse Noller <jnoller at reference-info.com> wrote:
>
>With 5 threads - I need each of the 5 threads to read 1 line from the
>file (but never the same line) and perform the processing. I never
>want the thread count to exceed the 5 threads defined.

Bad idea.  Never access the same external resource from multiple
threads.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 18 15:02:57 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:02:57 -0600
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
In-Reply-To: <c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <20040318200257.GD1796@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 08:46:04PM +0100, Peter Maas wrote:
> The mapping of '1' to 0x31 is defined by ASCII which is used by C. If a C
> instruction retrieves a char it reads data from an adress and if there is
> a 0x31 stored at the adress C treats it as '1'. My short form of this is
> "'1' is 0x31 in memory".

Wrong. (surely C99 didn't change this)

C doesn't require ASCII as a source-encoding nor as the character
encoding on the target machine.

C's requirements for character set are pretty minimal.  The letters and
digits are all required (can someone tell me whether lower-case is
required?), as well as a small set of punctuation, newline, and space.
(Are any of tab, carriage return, vertical tab, or formfeed required?)

This may be the required set of punctuation (the rest are available as
digraphs or trigraphs:
    ! " % & ' ( ) * + , - . / : ; < = > ? _

My source for the set of punctuation is:
    http://csit1cwe.fsu.edu/extra_link/vac/compiler/ref/rulngchr.htm

Jeff



From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Mar 10 04:41:01 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:41:01 +0200 (EET)
Subject: open default web browser using python
In-Reply-To: <c2mncf$s58$1@planja.arnes.si>
References: <c2mncf$s58$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403101139280.20781@sampo.csc.fi>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Gregor Leban wrote:

> When clicking on one of the menu
> items, we would like to open the default web browser for that platform with
> a specific html page. Is there any python function that can do that?

Look at the webbrowser module:

import webbrowser
webbrowser.open("http://www.google.com/")

Cheers,

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From deets_noospaam at web.de  Wed Mar  3 15:24:45 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:24:45 +0100
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c25eue$p3k$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Can anyone offer any advice?

If PyQt is a possible option for you - choose it. IMHO its marvellous - and
the signal-slot-mechanism is good for separating gui and logic. The
designer also works very well. If you want to use it under windows, I think
purchasing BlackAdder might be a good choice - I think of that myself,
although under Linux things are a little bit easier because of the gpl'ed
qt.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From none.by.e-mail  Tue Mar 23 05:57:46 2004
From: none.by.e-mail (Mike Thompson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:57:46 +1100
Subject: A chat ...
Message-ID: <40601830$0$3954$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>


... between two of this NGs midgets.

http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=g:thl924567501d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=7S%25rb.476%24%25o4.18723%40news.xtra.co.nz

Amusing to remember, don't you think?

--
Mike


From jdtiede at sstar.com  Tue Mar 16 15:56:32 2004
From: jdtiede at sstar.com (John D. Tiedeman)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:56:32 -0600
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
Message-ID: <40576A00.9090506@sstar.com>

{Sent on 2004-03-15 with wrong subject line}

On 2004-03-11 Dave Brueck wrote:

> Here's the configure command I used, don't know if it will help you at 
> all:
>
> ./configure --with-postgres-libraries=/usr/local/pgsql/lib
> --with-postgres-includes=/usr/local/pgsql/include
> --with-zope=/home/dave/Zope261
> --with-mxdatetime-includes=/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateT 
>
> ime
>
> -Dave
>  
>
I adapted to:
   ./configure --with-postgres/libraries=/usr/local/pgsql/lib 
--with-postgres-includes=/usr/local/pgsql/include
--with-zope=/usr/lib/Zope-2.6.2-src 
--with-mxdatetime-includes=/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateTime 


I have python2.3 but mx is only in 2.2 for some reason. Zope-2.6.2 says 
use Python 2.1 only; it didn't install satisfactorily but as I'm not 
planning to use on a website at this point does that matter? The 
libraries are there.

At this point, using the command
   conn = psycopg.connect("dbname=personal", serialize=0)
from psycogq documentation, I get
   NameError: name 'psycopg' is not defined

What am I missing?



From nobody_u_should_no at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 07:43:03 2004
From: nobody_u_should_no at yahoo.com (nobody)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 04:43:03 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
Message-ID: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>

This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
this language.

The opinions expressed herein are my personal ones, coming
from several years of experience with Lisp. I did plenty of
AI programming back in the day,  which is what would now be
called "search" instead.

Due to time constraints, I will refrain from posting any
follow-ups here. Participants of other newsgroups are well
aware of comp.lang.lispers' tendency to engage in personal
attacks, so a productive discussion with them is unlikely
anyway.

Permission is granted to copy and distribute this document
without restrictions.


=========================================================
   Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language.
=========================================================
(In the following, "Lisp" refers to ANSI Common Lisp)

This article is a collection of facts anyone interested in
Lisp should know about.

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 1: The fastest Lisp implementations are slow

(See any third-party benchmark: The Great Computer Language
Shootout comes to mind, but the Coyote Culch test is in my
optinion even better: it is a professional-quality
interlanguage benchmark)

As a rule of thumb, the most hand-optimized Lisp programs
will be longer than their C/C++ equivalents, and will run
2-20 times slower using the best compilers.

This alone is half the truth. To get such performance out
of Lisp, one has to add type declarations and shed all
safety checks, which is analogous to casting /everything/
to (void*) in C. This is needed to turn off type tag checks
at run time.

Sadly, Lisp code that was posted to USENET by Pascal
Bourguignon for the Coyote Gulch test did not measure up
even to these low expectations and was 31.6 times slower
than C++, using CMUCL 18d as a Lisp compiler and Intel C++
7.1 (with -O3 -xW optimization switches) as a C++ compiler
on Pentium IV.

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 2: No one but a small clique of fanatics likes it

No matter how odd or perverted the cause, there will be
followers. In fact, the odder the cause, the fewer, but
more fervent its followers are. Look at any religious cult,
like Scientology, or take a peek in comp.lang.lisp and
listen to Lisp zealots talk about 'making sacrifices for
the cause' (in all seriousness!). Look up "a public
apology" thread started by Pascal Costanza as an excellent
example.

ZEALOTS STOP AT NOTHING TO ADVANCE THEIR CAUSE, AND
PERSONALLY ATTACKING ANYONE WITH A DISSENTING OPTINION IS
THE FIRST THING IN THEIR ARSENAL.

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 3: The vast majority of people who study Lisp in
school, never want to use it again.

You should already know this if you studied or taught CS
where Lisp courses were offered. Even those students who
are fond of Scheme are usually disgusted by Lisp.

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 4: Lisp is the most complicated language in the world

It has the biggest standard specification document, which
is also the most obfuscated one - something a lawyer
pretending to be a programmer could have written. C, C++
and Fortran 95 specs are much better written, by people who
can communicate directly and eloquently.

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 5: Despite its size, Lisp does not define threads or
GUI.

Large libraries are very useful when programming, however
Lisp's many functions and macros hardly qualify.

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 6: There is no open-source cross-platform native-code
compiler

It was suggested that GCL (GNU Common Lisp) is the only
exception. However, it needs to be noted, that despite its
name, GCL is a dialect of its own, is quite slow even by
Lisp standards, and most alarmingly, unlike with other
compilers, its license requires your, programmer, code to
be GPL if you distribute it with GCL. (Because you will
need to use GCL both as a compiler and a run time library)

---------------------------------------------------------

FACT 7: There is no standard C interface.

C has become a lingua franca for interlanguage APIs. It may
be unfair, but not having a standard C interface is a
serious problem for any language.


EPILOGUE:

I do not hate Lisp, and I think it was a fine tool decades
ago, and I am not going to say "Lisp sucks". However, now
that we have superior languages for coding close to the
iron, high-performance computing, number crunching,
algorithms, scripting and gluing components together, Lisp
should be finally retired.


From bigbinc097_DONT_SPAM at comcast.net  Mon Mar 15 19:43:26 2004
From: bigbinc097_DONT_SPAM at comcast.net (Berlin Brown)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:43:26 -0500
Subject: tkinter entry/text widget
References: <d1b33313.0403151108.5fa31ffb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yc2dncOux9AK1cvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

bigbinc wrote:

> I have used the 'entry' tk widget to get text values, I am now using
> 'Text' but I cant seem to use 'get' method.  The TK docs say use
> get(index1, index2), I tried numbers and get an error
> 
> 
> print self.textMain.get(1,255)
> 
> ceback (most recent call last):
> ile "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call
>  return self.func(*args)
> ile "blog.py", line 60, in saveFile
>  print self.textMain.get("1","255")
> ile "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 2868, in get
>  return self.tk.call(self._w, 'get', index1, index2)
> Error: bad text index "1"

I was asking for it, I need a couple more months with the language before I
ask the silly newbie questions.  I asked anyway.

-- 
Berlin Brown
bigbinc at hotmail.com


From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Mar 11 06:08:45 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 03:08:45 -0800
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<m3hdwxj0h3.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
	<ss00501l7k1890v168f303psghd81t3qi5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <d28ac2c5.0403110308.2bf26299@posting.google.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> Nick Vargish <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote:
> >
> >I always come back to (X)Emacs in the end. 
> >...
> >Sometimes I try out the current crop of editors, but it always seems
> >as though I'm just playing. Like I said, I always come back to
> >(X)Emacs in the end.
> 
> Mmmm...  Powerful is the dark side.

Sorry, couldn't help myself:

Luke: Are other editors better than Emacs?

Yoda: No... no... no.  Quicker, easier, more seductive.

--
Christopher


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  6 11:53:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:53:27 -0500
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
In-Reply-To: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pon2c.2285$G3.18508@localhost>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I've got a module that defines a bunch of constants:
> 
> OP_FOO = 1
> OP_BAR = 2
> OP_BAZ = 37
> 
> and so on.  The values are all unique.  I want to build, at module 
> import time, a reverse map of these constants, i.e. I want to end up 
> with:
> 
> {1: "OP_FOO", 2: "OP_BAR", 37: "OP_BAZ"}
> 
> I can find the appropriate symbols:
> 
> for name in dir():
>    if name.startswith ("OP_"):
>       print name
> 
> But I don't see how to get the values.  Getattr() is sort of what I 
> want, but it works on objects, not modules.  Not to mention that I don't 
> see how to get a handle to the module from inside the module, i.e. 
> there's no "self".
> 
> What am I missing?

globals()

That returns a dict which has those constants in it, so you can ask for 
.keys() or .values(), etc.

Think of dir() as just globals().keys() in this case...

-Peter


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Mar 27 18:24:18 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:24:18 -0800
Subject: [Fwd: Re: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app]
Message-ID: <40660D22.6010200@mlug.missouri.edu>


> I've looked at it briefly (if I recall it is written in Perl).  I may 
> go back and investigate that more thoroughly but I still wonder:
>  
> - Are there any Python based examples?
> - Is webmin well designed? (Not trying to troll, just curious if it is 
> well thought out or just a hack)
>  
> If any of you were to design such a beast (web based system admin 
> tool) from scratch which framework would you consider a good match?

The main thing I've thought of doing is creating an XML-RPC based 
solution for admin'ing boxes. That way you could have some competition 
as to the user interfaces and could get some tools for managing clusters 
of systems in that way. Possibly make it so if a normal web browser 
connects to the web admin server then it's presented with a default UI 
as well as a section documenting the XML-RPC interface. If an XML-RPC 
client connects to the same server it can work with the system in it's 
own way. I think that'd combine ease of use with flexibility.





From sigurd at 12move.de  Tue Mar  9 19:06:04 2004
From: sigurd at 12move.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?Karl_Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:06:04 +0100
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m31xo1bmlv.fsf@hamster.pflaesterer.de>

An unnamed person wrote:

> I want to sort a list.
> My problem is:

>>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
>>>> a.sort()
>>>> a
> ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']


> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']

> Is there any module to sort a list this way?

You don't need a module.  The sorting method can take a custom sorting
function.

>>> L = ['a','f','F','A','D']
>>> L.sort(lambda u, v: cmp(u.lower(), v.lower()) or cmp(u, v))
>>> L
['A', 'a', 'D', 'F', 'f']
>>> 

As 0 is the same as a boolean false value the comparing function will
try the part after the `or' if two values were equal compared with
`cmp(u.lower(), v.lower())' to ensure `A' comes before `a'.



   KP

-- 
"Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally
for machines to execute."
                -- Abelson & Sussman, SICP (preface to the first edition)


From me at privacy.net  Fri Mar 26 16:31:47 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 21:31:47 GMT
Subject: Passing items of a lsit as arguments
Message-ID: <c427fr$22qgbe$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

I want to call a function that was defined with *args in the header, e.g. 
the Tkinter.Canvas.create_polygon function. I got the coordinates in a 
long list but how can I achieve that every item in this list is passed as 
a single parameter?

Example:
bla = [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6), ...]
has to become
create_polygon((1,2), (3,4), (5,6), ..., fill=blue)

Thanks in Advance

Bye
Tobias

-- 
please send any mail to botedesschattens(at)web(dot)de


From moranar at daleclick.com  Fri Mar  5 14:09:13 2004
From: moranar at daleclick.com (Adriano Varoli Piazza)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:09:13 -0300
Subject: Threading of messages in the list?
Message-ID: <20040305160913.64807107.moranar@daleclick.com>

I notice a lot of the threads are completely broken, with new
Re: messages starting as new threads, etc. Is it a problem with my
settings, a bug, a misfeature, a definite feature, something due to the
fact that this is linked to a newsgroup?

I work with several MLs, and none show this behaviour.
TIA

-- 
Adriano Varoli Piazza
The Inside Out: http://moranar.com.ar
ICQ: 4410132
MSN: adrianomd at hotmail.com
Busc? mis firmas gpg en pgp.mit.edu o en search.keyserver.net
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From jkeen_via_google at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 09:06:51 2004
From: jkeen_via_google at yahoo.com (Jim Keenan)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 06:06:51 -0800
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <196cb7af.0403270606.520c617@posting.google.com>

Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote in message news:<40652B0D.7C313F77 at doe.carleton.ca>...
> Hello,
> 
[snip 4 paragraphs]

> 
> Whichever way I go, I would like to avoid the overhead
> of learning both Perl and Python.  I will sculpt out some
> time in a miserly fashion to slowly get to know one.  

Okay.  You are at Carleton University, which was the site of Yet
Another Perl Conference::Canada in May 2003.  So you have an excellent
pool of local Perl experts to draw upon -- and there are many more not
far away in Montreal, Toronto and Kitchener/Waterloo.  Look them up
via http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.html .

Jim Keenan
Brooklyn NY


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  2 01:02:36 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:02:36 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <Xns949FF2BD1BE73rzed@63.223.5.95>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<Xns949FF2BD1BE73rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <c21871$hlc$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> If a '+' is problematic, it could be some other character. If I use 
> a print statement in a Python program, from my viewpoint, a 
> trailing comma signals suppression of newline and adding a space. 
> In this scenario, a trailing <insert acceptable character here> 
> would suppress the newline but not add a space. There's not much 
> difference there.

The problem is that checking my keyboard, there exists exactly three 
characters without syntactical meanings in Python 2.3; @, $, ?.  None of 
them make /any/ sort of syntactical sense to me in this context. I hope 
that Guido feels the same way.


> Having said all that, I'll add that I don't see this as a big 
> issue, and I don't find it a burden to use an alternative syntax to 
> achieve the same effect. I don't know how to tell if it's a right 
> or wrong thing to do. If it were a feature of the language, I'd 
> probably use it. I've never really understood what it is about the 
> print statement that bothers some people; it's always seemed 
> reasonably useful and reasonably intuitive to me. Maybe every 
> language is destined to have irregular verbs.

I don't know if every language is destined, and I don't find print to be 
all that irregular, or really magical, so it seems like we are on the 
same page.


  - Josiah


From erick_bodine at comcast.net  Fri Mar  5 20:08:27 2004
From: erick_bodine at comcast.net (Erick Bodine)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 17:08:27 -0800
Subject: win32com.client.Dispatch returns CLSID different than makepy
References: <80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8de75d53.0403051708.639a8080@posting.google.com>

I saw something similar when I ran makepy on "Microsoft CDO for
Exchange Management Library".  I emailed the list but got no response
<shrugging shoulders>

Out of curiousity, are you using ActivePython's distribution or Python
+ latest win32all ?

--ERick

stefano at stefanomasini.com (Stefano Masini) wrote in message news:<80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm trying to script Adobe InDesign CS from python thru COM, and I'm
> having a horrible time to even get started.
> 
> I ran makepy, and chose "Adobe InDesign CS Type Library".
> It produced a horribly named module inside the gen_py directory, and
> when I run gencache.py -d I get this:
> 
> Cache is in directory C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py
> Adobe InDesign CS Type Library -
> {6926C15F-E97E-4b13-8658-A97D8C616945}
> 
> Therefore it looks like everything worked so far, and the type library
> for InDesign has the Class ID {6926C15F-E97E-4b13-8658-A97D8C616945}
> 
> Now, when I write the following python code:
> 
> comApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('InDesign.Application')
> print repr(comApp)
> 
> I get:
> 
> <COMObject InDesign.Application>
> 
> Which looks like a dynamic dispatch, rather that a static one, as it
> should be since I ran makepy on purpose.
> 
> Indeed, I manually placed some print statements around the win32com
> python source code and I figured out that the name
> 'InDesign.Application' (I also tried with 'InDesign.Application.CS')
> maps to the Class ID {ABD4CBB2-0CFE-11D1-801D-0060B03C02E4}.
> This is different from the one produced by makepy, and therefore the
> dispatch method can't find anything in cache, and falls back to
> dynamic behaviour.
> 
> Anybody have a clue on what's going on here?
> 
> I thought I ought to write something different that
> 'InDesign.Application'... so I tried 'Adobe.InDesign.Application',
> 'Adobe.CS.....' and all sorts of things, but no luck.
> 
> Once I chose the 'Adobe InDesign CS Type Library' from makepy, how do
> I know what am I supposed to use as the parameter to Dispatch() ?
> 
> Thank you very much, I hope somebody helps me out.
> Maybe with some useful readings...


From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Mar 24 15:20:06 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:20:06 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 24)
Message-ID: <1063rbmoij8hj78@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Python's value proposition is that it is a tool for grown ups." -- Mike
C. Fletcher

"A Pythonista trying to convince a world of Java heads to do it another way?
Your cries for sanity will be lost in the 'public static void'." -- Eric
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.115.1079583713.742.python-list%40python.org


    Dennis Lee Bieber, Aahz, and Jeff Epler all provide high
    signal-to-noise ratios in demonstrating how to begin to
    use threads
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=7419a916da622272
    For one example of the vistas available to those willing
    to look beyond conventional threading, recall David Mertz'
    microthreading
	http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pythrd.html

    Timbot illustrates how apparently simple thread use can go
    wrong with his "import deadlock" example
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=8dd560d10458f9db

    Brian Kelley, Elaine Jackson, Robert Brewer, and Jesper Olsen
    show how good simple Python graph management can be
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=681a96be1be972cb
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=df43196c32d307c3

    Adult discussions of Pythonic performance center on an
    image-processing problem
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=bdd7cbed8e8f6bf

    Robert Brewer aptly explains how to think about the applicability
    of regular expressions
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=2c10045d217343bd

    Duncan Smith automates Microsoft Word with Python
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=cd5b7a83d3495dc9

    Premshree Pillai offers a Web-based Python-coded "Tic Tac Toe"
    as a baseline for beginners in Python Web- and game-work.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/275150


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Fri Mar  5 23:55:25 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:55:25 GMT
Subject: Newby Question: Generic Database Object Interface Needed
Message-ID: <1Rc2c.2356$u92.1037@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

I have two databases, Postgres and Oracle, and I would like to be able to
use the same syntax to access and retrieve data in the same way. Is there a
generic database object interface (module) that will allow me to access and
retrieve data the same way? I would prefer one that is well supported.
Thanks!

Kevin




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 28 12:54:11 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:54:11 -0500
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com><slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca><95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c473fr$4q3$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Joe Mason" <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message
news:slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe at gate.notcharles.ca...
> In article <95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9 at posting.google.com>, Michele
Simionato wrote:
> > Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message
news:<slrnc6crti.dit.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> >>
> >> You could just put the function call in your base class's __init__
> >> method.  (Or, in fact, put the code from that call directly there, if
> >> you only care when you inherit from the one Zope class.)
> >
> > Uh? The base class __init__ method is not called when I derive a new
> > class. I want to make the make the check at class level, *before*
> > instantiating.
>
> It is if you call the inherited __init__ method, which you should be
> doing because it probably does important stuff.

?? The derived class __init__ is not called until the first instance is
created, which might be way later or even never in any particular run of
the program.  It does *not* check '*before* instantiating' as M.S. sensibly
wants.

> Why do you care whether it checks before instantiating the class, or
> instantiates the class and then throws an error during __init__?  It's
> not going to make any speed or memory difference to the successful case,
> which is all you care about for performance.

The derived class is created just once.  __init__ is called for every
instance, which could be a large number.

Terry J. Reedy






From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Mar  5 12:47:44 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:47:44 -0600
Subject: Python Services and excepthook (not working)
Message-ID: <O9CdndSrEryhINXd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

In an attempt to catch all exceptions that might
happen in my program, I have set an excepthook
so that I can catch the exception, get the
traceback and log it to a file.  This works like
a charm for "normal" Python programs.  I have
just begun to write Python services and this
methodology doesn't seem to work any more.  It
appears that some other function is taking over
my excepthook and writes the traceback to the
Event Log (not a bad thing, just not what I want).
I would like to get back control so I can log
the exception to my log file (and email a message
to the administrator).

Anybody got an idea how I might accomplish this?

Thanks in advance,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar 18 00:49:15 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:49:15 -0500
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
	<405868D7.4090205@python.org>
	<mailman.86.1079536389.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkad2eaen8.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

>> Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
>> > doesn't allow for generic options to be arguments to
>> > subcommand-specific options,
>> 
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 10:03:51AM -0500, David Goodger wrote:
>> What does that mean?
>
> Using the example of CVS again, the "-z#" argument specifies that
> compression should be used for network connections.  I think that these
> have the same effect:
>     cvs -z3 co foo
>     cvs co -z3 foo
> "-z#" can appear before or after subcommand in the commandline and has
> the same meaning in either location.

You didn't try it, did you :-)? It doesn't work -- generic options have to
come before the subcommand w/ cvs.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Tue Mar 30 17:33:35 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 08:23:35 +0950
Subject: Global name "userid" not defined??
References: <Uqiac.1044$zh.796@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <slrnc6juje.1ca.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:53:47 -0600, Sean Berry wrote:
> How do I make a variable global?

Mu.  (You're asking the wrong question.)

Why do you need to make a variable global?  Global variables are bad
style in almost every instance; an object to manage the variable gives
you readability and protection from unexpected side-effects.

If you explain what it is you want to achieve with a global variable,
it's likely a better solution can be proposed.

-- 
 \         "Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free |
  `\       than Christianity has made them good."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From bdecker at flowcom.com.au  Wed Mar 10 17:52:40 2004
From: bdecker at flowcom.com.au (bdecker at flowcom.com.au)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:52:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to downgrade/remove ZODB (or any other module)?
In-Reply-To: <282f826a.0403100205.5d6070e4@posting.google.com>
References: <282f826a.0403100205.5d6070e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040311100520.GA15955@flowcom.com.au>

* Richard Shea <richardshea at fastmail.fm> [2004-03-10 02:05:10 -0800]:

> Hi - I have just installed ZODB for the first time. However after I'd
> finished I realised that I'd installed a development release and not a
> stable release so I'd like to downgrade or remove the current
> installation and start again.
> 
> I installed via a Windows installer from which I could extract a list
> of files and then manually remove (there are 290 files) but is there
> some less labourious way of  removing a module ?

Then why don't you just unistall the development package via the 'control
panel' and install the stable release you want. 

Mixing distributions is something very dangerous, something that release
managers and developers themselves rarely do (unless they know exaclty
what source code they are reintroducing and for what reason). And even
then the current sources are simply patched with the previous solution
and 'upgraded' again. 


... and if that was you, I doubt that you would be asking us this
question ;-)





PS. I rarely see 'downgrading' except on M$ systems
;-)

Ben 


From hufman at cobalty.com  Thu Mar  4 19:49:58 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 18:49:58 -0600
Subject: How to find size of file?
Message-ID: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>

Hi, I'm the same one with the CGI download problem. This time, however, I 
want to send the client the size of the file that will be downloaded. How 
would I find the size of the file, so I can include that in the headers? 

--Walter Huf--
hufman at cobalty.com
http://hufman.cobalty.com


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 13 22:33:24 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:33:24 -0500
Subject: PythonCOM - How to get (LPDISPATCH) of myself?
In-Reply-To: <%1S3c.38846$lT6.197192@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <_MS2c.1888$6y1.257780@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<SUa3c.13260$6y1.557049@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<%1S3c.38846$lT6.197192@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <moQ4c.54808$6y1.2233751@news20.bellglobal.com>

Well, I'm sure my unique application of a Python COM server as a 
Solidworks addin is not of much interest to most - but my lesson in the 
obvious may be. ;o)  I finally got the plumbing working so I can now 
move onto actual, meaningful coding!!

When using a garbage collected language like Python - it is important to 
  keep references to your controls around in your class.  You can't 
execute a callback if the button object you are trying to click has been 
garbage collected!!  MAN!  I swear sometimes I can be pretty thick....

Markus.

Markus Wankus wrote:
> Getting clooooseeerr......
> 
> OK, apparently what I want is:
> 
> win32com.server.util.wrap(self)
> 
> This seems to work fine.  All I have left to do is to get my callbacks 
> to work.  They are intermittent, but I think it is not Python's fault...
> 
> Markus.
> 
> Markus Wankus wrote:
> 
>> In the spirit of trial and error.. ;o) ..I tried the following to get 
>> a Dispatch object to myself from within my Python COM server:
>>
>> pythoncom.UnwrapObject(pythoncom.GetActiveObject(self._reg_progid_))
>>
>> But got the following exception:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\universal.py", line 
>> 173, in dispatch
>>     retVal = ob._InvokeEx_(meth.dispid, 0, meth.invkind, args, None, 
>> None)
>>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 
>> 322, in _InvokeEx_
>>     return self._invokeex_(dispid, lcid, wFlags, args, kwargs, 
>> serviceProvider)
>>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 
>> 541, in _invokeex_
>>     return func(*args)
>>   File "E:\_DEV\python\solidworks\PropertyPageUtils.py", line 53, in 
>> ConnectToSW
>>     obj = 
>> pythoncom.UnwrapObject(pythoncom.GetActiveObject(self._reg_progid_))
>> pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221021, 'Operation unavailable', None, None)
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what 'Operation unavailable' might be hinting at?
>>
>> Markus.
>>
>> Markus Wankus wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Python COM server which supports callbacks for a large CAD 
>>> program.  It adds menu items and then listens to events - however, I 
>>> have a problem (obviously)...  I'm a COM idiot - so please expect 
>>> dumb questions.
>>>
>>> There are a bunch of functions that require a pointer to the event 
>>> handler, or a pointer to my COM server.  Prolem is - it is looking 
>>> for a pointer to a Dispatch object - but I have already been 
>>> dispatched. Maybe an example will clear things up.  One of the 
>>> functions is as follows:
>>>
>>> Status = SldWorks.SetAddinCallbackInfo ( ModuleHandle, 
>>> AddinCallbacks, Cookie )
>>>
>>> Input:
>>>  (long) ModuleHandle
>>>  Instance handle of the add-in
>>>
>>> Input:
>>>  (LPDISPATCH) AddinCallbacks
>>>  Pointer to the object that includes the add-in callback methods
>>>
>>> Input:
>>>  (long) Cookie
>>>  Add-in ID; this is the same Cookie you specified in 
>>> SwAddin::ConnectToSW
>>>
>>> Output:
>>>  (VARIANT_BOOL) Status
>>>  TRUE if successful, FALSE if unsuccessful
>>>
>>> What I *want* to do is essentially:
>>>
>>> SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), self, self.ICookie)
>>>
>>> ...however - this fails because "self" (my COM server) is not a 
>>> Pointer to a Dispatch object.
>>>
>>> I can get it to work if I do the following:
>>>
>>> SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), Dispatch(self._reg_progid_), 
>>> self.ICookie)
>>>
>>> ...however this dipatches a new instance of my COM server, losing any 
>>> attributes that may have been set since instantiation - thus is useless.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to get a pointer to a Dispatch object of yourself?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mark.


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar 29 07:03:13 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:03:13 +0200
Subject: OT: FTP sync program?
Message-ID: <c493c0$a6i$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

I'm looking for a *free* program to synchronize files over ftp (like rsync).

Any suggestions?

Miki


From bogus at bogus.net  Thu Mar 11 23:30:59 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:30:59 GMT
Subject: 2D List comprehension & replace
References: <YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA@comcast.com>
	<mM84c.5095$u_5.4589@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<c2rb4r$21ftn5$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <72b4c.5606$u_5.3759@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c2rb4r$21ftn5$2 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Paul McGuire wrote:
> > "Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:ZOednXPakP64mczdRVn-jA at comcast.com...
> >
> >>[[y or None for y in x] for x in l]
> >
> > Well if that works, then this must too:
> >
> >      [y or None for x in l for y in x]
>
> No, that will give you a single-level list,
> not a list of lists.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>
Shoot!  Well, thanks for straightening me out!  I'll fix this in my Matlab
wrapper class, too.

-- Paul




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Fri Mar 26 14:38:31 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:38:31 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sedej1-53r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> (a) In compiled language like C++, changing function prototypes and
> variable names is comfortable, because the compiler will find all
> those spots that you need to change.

It won't catch some stuff such as where a prototype changes from
pass by value to pass by reference (or vice versa), or if another
operator or explicit conversion is available.  [That is true
of many languages, but C++ gives the impression it has this
rigid type checking system that avoids errors if the code compiles]

In reality I find the best approach is to use multiple languages.
You can code components in C++ and glue them together using
Swig and Python.  You can make multiple binaries and execute
them telling them where to send their output, or use a pipe.
That kind of thing also makes it easier dealing with issues
in the field.  For example you can send the customer a different
binary (that has the same interface) or the debugging version
of a DLL/so etc.

At the end of the day, use the best tool for the job, and
don't use any that preclude you from using others at the
same time as well.

Roger




From bob at redivi.com  Wed Mar  3 15:56:52 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:56:52 -0500
Subject: mounting network drives in macosx
References: <560d84ab.0403030701.2454d4c3@posting.google.com>
	<1zo1c.31758$TF2.14734@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <2004030315565216807%bob@redivicom>

If it's the same network share every time, you can just make an alias 
to it (manually) from the finder, and then os.system('open myalias') 
whenever you want it to be mounted.  Of course, this will open a window 
in the finder, but it is a quick&dirty way to do it.

The real question is why you're trying to do it, and in what kind of situation.

On 2004-03-03 12:26:21 -0500, "bobb" <rawbobb at hotmail.com> said:

> It depends if you want to mount via NFS, SAMBA (windoze like), or other.
> Once you figure that out, google for python os commands,
> that may get you started.
> there may be seperate modules for macosx.
> 
> "Joe" <heavens7s at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:560d84ab.0403030701.2454d4c3 at posting.google.com...
>> Is there a way to mount a network share from within Python on MacOSX?
>> I imagine it would be the same as for Unix, but I don't know how to do
>> it for Unix either.  I have searched python.org and googled a lot
>> without success.  Any help here is greatly appreciated.  Thanks all!




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Fri Mar 12 10:18:37 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:18:37 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<tyfbrn25ilm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <33bd6435fb366a01954fafca8a8f34e3@news.teranews.com>

On 12 Mar 2004 13:56:53 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:
>
>> Premshree Pillai schrieb:
>> > How do I force static typing in Python?
>> 
>> You have to enforce it by code instead of declaration, i.e. you
>> have to do runtime type checking.
>
>Just what do you understand "static typing" to mean ?
Doesn't that usually mean typing with a high noise-to-signal ratio?
Lots of punctuation and such.
;-)
    --dang


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  1 12:22:54 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:22:54 GMT
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vo8h$n5p$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <c1vqkk$1ui$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <m3u1185vo2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> Nicolas Fleury  <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> >Aahz wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, Don't Do That.  Do not rely on finalizers for external resources
> >> (such as threads).
> >
> >Why?  Isn't a kind of RAII applied to Python?
> 
> What's "RAII"?

Resource Aquisition Is Initialization.  Works in C++.  Doesn't really
in Python.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Need to Know is usually an interesting UK digest of things that
  happened last week or might happen next week. [...] This week,
  nothing happened, and we don't care.
                           -- NTK Now, 2000-12-29, http://www.ntk.net/


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar  7 17:33:38 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:33:38 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Brett wrote:
> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)

What you have is what many other languages allow with integers after break or
continue statements.  For example you can do 'break 2' or 'continue 3' to
break or continue out of the respective number of enclosing for loops.
(Some other languages allow you to label the loops and then you can
name the level in the break/continue statements which is kind of what
you end up doing in C)

Sadly Python doesn't allow numbers. You can write it yourself using variables
to track the looping or throwing exceptions as other posters have shown,
but it can get REALLY complicated if you want to break/continue out of
differing numbers of layers at different points.  It is also quite
easy to have bugs due to oversights (been there, done that :-)

I don't like the rewriting as it greatly complicates the code, and you are
having to write something different than what you mean in your head.
Maybe someone wants to take this on as a PEP?

Roger




From python-list at qbcon.com  Thu Mar 25 07:53:46 2004
From: python-list at qbcon.com (Andreas Pauley)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:53:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Sending ICMP Packets
In-Reply-To: <4061f9cb.2322781@news.muenster.de>
References: <mailman.276.1080044600.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4061f9cb.2322781@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <20040325122605.P409@bsd4.intranet.qbcon.com>

Thanks, I'm busy looking at the code.

I've also discovered Impacket from Core Security Technologies:
http://oss.coresecurity.com/projects/impacket.html

In the process I've discovered a bug on FreeBSD 4.7 when trying to send
icmp packets with Python. The code works fine on Linux and OpenBSD though.

What are the procedures for submitting a bug in Python?

Regards,
Andreas.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Martin Bless wrote:

> [Andreas Pauley <python-list at qbcon.com>]
>
> >Does anyone have some simple example code that will ping a host?
>
> Jeremy Hylton has one at his site:
>
> http://www.python.org/~jeremy/python.html
>
>
> mb - Martin Bless
>




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 22 05:41:34 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:41:34 -0800
Subject: In what python release was this introduced..
References: <74dd441a.0403220126.12ec063f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405EC2DE.4FD85835@alcyone.com>

Moe A wrote:

> i need to list dependencies for my package & was wondering in what
> python release could you start making 'in <string>' calls with more
> than one char..eg:
> 
> "JESUS" in bible
> 
> instead of
> 
> "J" in bible

2.3.

max at oxygen:~% python2.1
Python 2.1.3 (#1, Jan  8 2004, 22:47:51) 
[GCC 3.2.3] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'abc' in 'abcdef'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>>> 
max at oxygen:~% python2.2
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jan  8 2004, 22:40:34) 
[GCC 3.2.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'abc' in 'abcdef'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>>> 
max at oxygen:~% python2.3
Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 22 2003, 23:44:26) 
[GCC 3.2.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'abc' in 'abcdef'
True



-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ There's a reason why we / Keep chasing morning
    -- Sandra St. Victor


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 15 17:38:42 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:38:42 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <B0F60981-74CE-11D8-B7A7-000A95909800@cern.ch>
	<mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc5caf4.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list at python.org>, Premshree Pillai wrote:
> Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
> typing, I think. Static typing has to do with explicit
> declaration (initialization) of variables (and not of
> variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is

Is that an official definition from somewhere?  Cause I always thought
static typing was about variable types.

Joe


From remy.blank_asps at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 04:14:11 2004
From: remy.blank_asps at pobox.com (Remy Blank)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:14:11 +0100
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in __builtins__
Message-ID: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>

Hi everybody,

I find myself writing lots of small utilities these days that need to 
iterate over a file system tree and perform operations on every file, 
e.g. setting ID3 tags or generating playlists or <plug> archiving files 
(sync2cd: an incremental archiving tool to CD/DVD at 
http://www.calins.ch/software/sync2cd.html) </plug>.

As a big fan of Python, that's the language of choice for these tools. 
By the way, this is my first posting, and therefore also my first 
opportunity to thank all the people who help providing such a great 
language!

As a fan of TDD (test-driven development), I use the unittest module to 
write the test cases for these tools. However, to make the test cases 
independent of the file system environment, I simulate a file system 
tree with a mock object using the following technique (sorry for the 
long posting):

TestFiles = {
         "/lost": ((16832, 1227166L, 774L, 51, 500, 600, 4096L, 
1067342814, 1067336294, 1067336294), ),
         "/lost/file1.mp3": ((33188, 884738L, 774L, 1, 0, 0, 1463L, 
1054331223, 991209287, 1054333751), "File content"),
         "/lost/file2.mp3": ((33188, 884738L, 774L, 1, 0, 0, 1463L, 
1054331223, 991209287, 1054333751), "Other file content")
}

class VfsTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
         """Setup test case for 'virtual' filesystem."""
         def setUp(self):
                 self.OldOpen = __builtins__.open
                 self.OldStat = os.stat
                 __builtins__.open = self.open
                 os.stat = self.stat
		# Same technique for other calls

         def tearDown(self):
                 __builtins__.open = self.OldOpen
                 os.stat = self.OldStat

         def open(self, Path, Mode):
                 Path = os.path.abspath(Path)
                 try:
                         return StringIO.StringIO(TestFiles[Path][1])
                 except KeyError:
                         raise OSError, "[Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: '" + Path + "'"

         def stat(self, Path):
                 Path = os.path.abspath(Path)
                 try:
                         Data = TestFiles[Path]
                         Mode = Data[0][stat.ST_MODE]
                         RDev = 0
                         if stat.S_ISBLK(Mode) or stat.S_ISCHR(Mode):
                                 RDev = Data[1]
                         return os.stat_result(Data[0], {"st_rdev": RDev})

                 except KeyError:
                         raise OSError, "[Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: '" + Path + "'"


Now my questions:
  - Am I doing something fundamentally forbidden (replacing stuff in 
existing modules like __builtins__ or os)?
  - Is there a better way of achieving the same result?
  - If the technique is generally useful, would there be interest in 
having a full-featured "virtual" file system mock object? I couldn't 
find anything similar on Google.

Thanks.
-- Remy


Remove underscore and anti-spam suffix in reply address for a timely 
response.


From snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 19 11:47:07 2004
From: snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk (Stephen Kellett)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:47:07 +0000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: New Flow Tracing Product
Message-ID: <TkYTTFBLQyWAFwqz@objmedia.demon.co.uk>

Python Bug Validator is entering public beta test. Find out more at:

http://www.softwareverify.com/pythonBugValidator/index.html

Python Bug Validator runs on Windows NT/2K/XP

Stephen
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information:        http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html


From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Sat Mar  6 08:57:40 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:57:40 +0100
Subject: CAN You help Re: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.60.1078574535.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.60.1078574535.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4049d841$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

dont bother schreef:
> Hi Jong,
> Yes I really want the location of the number matching
> in the dictionary.
> This is because I have to input these feature vectors
> to another program which takes [index: value ] where 
> index: is the value specific to dictionary.
> I dont care about the addition/extension of the words
> in the dictionary but for now, I really want the index
> of the word in the dictionary. This is also equivalent
> to the line number of the word in the dictionary.

OK. Back to basics. You have:

- a dictionary with one word per line
- a message with words that may or may not be
   words from the dictionary
- another program that takes [index: value] as input,
   and presumably does something useful.

So, you want to have a program that does the following:

   for each dictionary word that is present in the message,
   output the "index: count", where index is the position of the
   word in the dictionary, and count is the number of times
   the word occurs in the message.

Side note: your original program divides the count by the
total number of words in the message. Since both are integers,
this division will always give 0. I will ignore this division
for now, but in the actual program you'll need to address that.

Assuming your dictionary is too large to do a search to find the
position of an individual word, you basically need two mappings,
both keyed by actual words:

dictpos = {}, which maps dictionary words to dictionary positions
wordcount = {}, which maps message words to frequence counts

dictpos you can fill from your dictionary file:

for i, w in file('dictionary')
     dictpos[w.strip()] = i

(strip removes the trailing newline)

wordcount can be filled from the message, like:

for w in msg.split():
     try:
         wordcount[w] += 1
     except KeyError:
         wordcount[w] = 1

Now the output can be generated by:

for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
     try:
         print dictpos[w], ':', c
     except KeyError:
         pass

This output is not sorted according to dictionary position.
If you need such sorting, that you'll have to capture everything
in a list first, and sort list that before printing.

Hope this helps.

Ruud.



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 13:40:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:40:17 -0500
Subject: UNC paths in file object open
In-Reply-To: <4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>
References: <4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <Bwn4c.2755$G3.22541@localhost>

Graham wrote:

> I ma trying to open a file on a network share
> 
> ie \\servername\share\folder\file
> 
> afile = open( \\server\share\folder\file, "r" )
> 
> have also tried
> afile = open( //server/share/folder/file, "r" ) # as per the Python cookbook
> advice on page 113 namely " use / regardless of the proclivities of the
> underlying operating system".

Are the above actual examples of the code you typed?  If so, I suggest 
reviewing the tutorial... strings in Python always require surrounding 
quotation marks, either ' or ", and yours above have neither.


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Mar 28 01:43:01 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 22:43:01 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>

> Hello, my name is Skip and I am metaclass-unaware.  I've been programming in
> Python for about ten years and I have yet to write a metaclass.  At first I
> thought it was just that metaclasses were new to the language, but now as
> more and more people use them and proclaim their widespread benefits, I have
> come to realize that through years of abuse my brain has become addicted to
> classic classes.

I began using Python since version 2.2.1 and without knowing anything
about OOP, so I had the advantage of a fresh start ;) Still, I will readily
admit that I was not immediately sold to metaclasses and actually I was
kind of skeptical about them. The "Putting metaclasses to work" book
made me change my mind. At this point I have becomed so accustomed to
metaclasses that I am disturbed when I cannot use them.

Just a real life example. I started studying Zope few days ago. 
Writing my first class I got caught since I was overriding a predefined Zope
method. I made a dir() and discovered that the context object in Zope
has more than four hundreds (400!) attributes. In such a situation it
is likely to override a predefined name, especially now that I am a
beginner and I have a fair chance of reimplementing (badly) something 
which is already available. So, I thought: "well, this a job for a metaclass" 
and in five minutes I implemented a metaclass raising an error if I was 
inadvertently overriding a predefined name (except names such as __init__ 
and similia, of course). Everything was nice and good until the moment
I tested the metaclass on a Zope class and got a segmentation fault.

Since I don't know anything about Zope internals I can only make a guess 
of what happened and I would be happy if some Zope guru here could
confirm (possibly educated) guess.

In my understanding, Zope tweaked Python classes at C level code, introducing
the concept of Extension classes. Extension classes are instances of a C coded
metaclass which does a lot of magic (for instance there are methods which
are automatically generated each time I create an extensions class);
unfortunately, this metaclass does not follow the protocol of Python 2.2+ 
metaclasses.  This is evidently an historical accident, since Zope Extension 
Classes were invented before Python 2.2 [*]; the net result is that I cannot
mix Python classes with custom metaclasses and Zope Extension classes.
 
I have heard that this is a temporary wart and that Zope 3 will solve
this issue (I'd like to have a confirmation here). However, for the
moment, I had to come out with a non-metaclass solution.

So, I reverted my mind to the pre-metaclass functioning mode (which required
a certain effort) and I wrote a function that takes a class, looks at
its dictionary, and raises an error if the class overrides an attribute
which is already defined in the parent classes. The solution works,
but it is kind of ugly compared to the metaclass solution:

1. The metaclass can raise the error *before* the metaclass is created,
   whereas the function works a posteriori, *after* the overriding is done;
   if find it to be conceptually unsatisfactory, I don't want to create
   a class just to throw it away. The alternative is to use a class factory,
   but then I have just re-invented a metaclass with an ugly call syntax.

2. The metaclass can be inherited, so the check is automatic for all children;
   on the contrary, I have to call the function by hand each time I define
   a new class. This means writing twice the class name, which is error
   prone if I later rename the class and I forget to update the function
   call.

Whereas it is true that in most cases you can find a non-metaclass solution, 
it is also true that in most case the metaclass solution is by far more 
elegant than the alternative. 

BTW, I wonder how Prothon would solve this problem, i.e. selectively 
forbidding the overriding of names, with an easy of use/elegance 
comparable to the Python metaclass solution.

                                 Michele Simionato


[*] I would be curious to know if Guido decided to expose metaclasses in 
Python since he noticed that they were already being used in real applications 
such as Zope (in some hidden form), or if there was some other reason.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar 11 18:03:23 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:03:23 -0500
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2qr7q$j5q$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Arthur" <ajsiegel at optonline.com> wrote in message
news:f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12 at 4ax.com...
>
> >>>a=[1,2,3]
> >>> for p in a:
> print p
> 1
> 2
> 3
> >>> p
> 3
>
> My naive expectation was that p would be 'not defined' from outside
> the loop.
>
> I know this is not news.
>
> In fact I had come across some discussion of this fact, but apparently
> didn't register it.
>
> As I got myself surprised by it - specifically  in the context of list
> comps, where I think it is particularly surprising:
>
> >>> b=[4,5,6]
> >>> [t*2 for t in b]
> [8, 10, 12]
> >>> t
> 6
>
> Is this anywhere useful, or more of an artifact?

For loops with a break statement, the value of the loop index when the
break occurs may be the answer sought or needed to calculate it.  For list
comps which cannot have break, it is an artifact which may disappear in
2.4.

Terry J. Reedy






From meenu_sun at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 07:12:05 2004
From: meenu_sun at yahoo.com (meenu_sun)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0000
Subject: reg : invoking winrunner from python
Message-ID: <c2kcal+cc8q@eGroups.com>

Hi,

i need to write a Function in python to call winrunner -its test 
script and check the results in python.

can any one help me in this

Regards,
T.Meenakshi Sundaram




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 15:41:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:41:40 -0600
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    srijit> I would like to know the definition of type safe 

Try reading

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Datatype

(found by googling for "wikipedia type safety").

    srijit> and whether Python can be considered as a type safe
    srijit> language. Similarly are Java, C# or C++ type safe?

Python: yes.  I don't know about Java or C# but my guess is that since C++
has casts you can make it do some type unsafe things.

Skip



From http  Mon Mar  8 22:48:55 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 19:48:55 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xhdwyu1co.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino) writes:
> process1_tuple = os.popen4("some code1")
> process2_tuple = os.popen4("some code2")
> 
> What is fast way to send a message between process1 and process2??

The fastest way is with shared memory, but the two processes have to
make prior arrangements.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 12:23:40 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:23:40 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <40699063.1080005@stackless.com>
References: <c4at6b$5vr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<40699063.1080005@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <20040330090610.E5F5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> > I'm curious to know what what email/newsgroup client you are using, your 
> > email client does not seem to produce proper "References:" and 
> > "In-Reply-To:" headers, which breaks message threading.  The headers 
> > claim Mozilla, but I thought I'd ask anyways.
> 
> What's wrong with
> """
> To: Simon Wittber <drconrad at metaplay.com.au>
> References: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9 at simonxp>
> In-Reply-To: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9 at simonxp>
> """ ?

According to the stored headers, the message IDs are not valid for any
of the messages in the thread.  You should check the thread on google
groups to notice how everyone else sees the 'threads'.  The only reason
Google, or even other clients place them in the same group, is because
the messages all have proper subjects.

You may want to opt for switching to Thunderbird, even though it is a
derivative of Mozilla, it doesn't seem to have issues with threading.

 - Josiah




From frr149 at telefonica.net  Fri Mar  5 07:23:27 2004
From: frr149 at telefonica.net (Boogie El Aceitoso)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:23:27 +0100
Subject: Intro to concurrent programming with python
Message-ID: <l8sg40ddqnb90ult8f9e6t0oj5osuhobvo@4ax.com>

Hi,

is there any good intro to threads with Python?


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 17 02:02:44 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 23:02:44 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403162302.511862f7@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list at python.org>...

> 
> Assuming nobody has overridden   eq  , of course. ;)
> 

Which would /never/ happen ... unless, of course, the programmer was
making use of OO-programming techniques?  :P


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 11:40:03 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:40:03 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.11.1080489481.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6du9d.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.11.1080489481.20120.python-list at python.org>, Jeff Epler wrote:
>     def __call__(
> __metaclass__ = PrototypeMeta
> 
> class Thing:

You're missing most of call() there.

BTW, I've got three pure-python solutions now (four when this one's
fixed) but it turns out they all suffer from a flaw:

>>> class TestProto: l = []
... 
>>> class Test2(TestProto): pass
... 
>>> TestProto.l
[]
>>> Test2.l
[]
>>> Test2.l.append(0)
>>> Test2.l
[0]
>>> TestProto.l
[0]

We really need copy-on-write lists and dicts - and large objects in
general - for this to work.

A bunch of the solutions already check for method definitions and
convert them to instances of a type ProtoMethod.  We could do the same
with COWDict and COWSequence classes in __setattr__, or something like
that.  That takes care of 80% of the problem.  If we can make it work
for subclasses as well, it works for 90%.  For the remaining 10% (large
datastructures unrelated to dicts/sequences) it might be enough just to
let the user handle it.

Any thoughts?

(BTW, I plan to write up all the various solutions I've seen - including
a link to Prothon - in the next few days, if I have time after work.
Next weekend at the latest.)

Joe


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Tue Mar 16 20:18:19 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 01:18:19 GMT
Subject: Generating images on-the-fly
References: <c34555$m93$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg> <4055c3e4$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <c3890r$2aq$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Josef Meile  <jmeile at hotmail.com>:
> You could use PythonMagick:
> http://www.procoders.net/moinmoin/PythonMagick
> 
> or pil:
> http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

Thanks for the pointers. Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 20 19:35:09 2004
From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 16:35:09 -0800
Subject: file.tell() ?
Message-ID: <731b3eeb.0403201635.8fa84d@posting.google.com>

Is this a bug? (file is an open text file):

>>> for i in range(0,5):
... 	var = file.next()
... 	file.tell()
... 	
1675L
1675L
1675L
1675L
1675L

I would have thought that it would increase as the position of the
file.

When I use readline, it works as I would expect:

>>> for i in range(0,5):
... 	var = file.readline()
... 	file.tell()
... 	
18L
31L
53L
67L
85L

The reason I ask is, I have a very large file to parse line by line. 
I thought I'd try and use an iterator, but it looks like the iterator
is really reading the entire file into memory before it starts
iterating.  So my best option is still to use file.readline().

Am I understanding this correctly?  Am I using the iterator
incorrectly?

Thanks,
Chris


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar 25 17:12:22 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:12:22 -0800
Subject: Variable scope in classes
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F5C@opus.amorhq.net>

Larry Bates wrote:
> I'm confused about variable scope in a class
> that is derived from a base class framework.
> 
> Can someone enlighten me on why bar.__init__
> method can't see self.__something variable
> in the foo.__init__?
> 
> Example:
> 
> 
> class foo:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print self.__something
> 
> 
> class bar(foo):
>     __something="This is a test"
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         foo.__init__(self)
> 
> 
> x=bar()
> 
> returns the following traceback:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scrip
> tutils.py",
> line 301, in RunScript
>     exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
>   File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 13, in ?
>     x=bar()
>   File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 10, in __init__
>     foo.__init__()
>   File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 3, in __init__
>     print self.__something
> AttributeError: bar instance has no attribute '_foo__something'
> 
> Is there some "other" way to do this without passing information
> through foo.__init__ argument list?

The quick and easy way would be to name your "__something" variable in
such a way that it doesn't start with two underscores. Try "_something"
with one underscore if you want to avoid the name mangling. See
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/atom-identifiers.html for a
discussion of mangling if you're not familiar with it.

The other way would be to form the mangled name yourself.

class foo:
    def __init__(self):
        attr = "_" + self.__class__.__name__ + "__something"
        print getattr(self, attr)


...or something like that.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sun Mar 28 18:48:54 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:48:54 -0800
Subject: [Fwd: Re: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app]
In-Reply-To: <16487.23252.815170.476932@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <40660D22.6010200@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<16487.23252.815170.476932@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <40676466.8020006@mlug.missouri.edu>


>    Michael> The main thing I've thought of doing is creating an XML-RPC
>    Michael> based solution for admin'ing boxes. 
>
>Unless you had an SSL (read: "secure") solution for doing XML-RPC this would
>probably be a bad idea. From a standard API standpoint I agree it would
>open up the user interface possibilities quite nicely.
>
It's easy enough to use Apache w/ SSL + Mod_Python to implement the 
XML-RPC server. I don't know if Python has a way to access an SSL 
wrapped XML-RPC server? Don't imagine it'd be to hard to implement 
though. I just haven't had a reason to need to since thus far all my 
XML-RPC apps don't need to be secure or are inside a secure network.

Might be worth the effort of implementing?



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 19:58:27 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:58:27 -0800
Subject: Select on Win XP
In-Reply-To: <da4423a8.0403191058.607eb8b@posting.google.com>
References: <da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f@posting.google.com>
	<c3b2dc$bt7$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<da4423a8.0403191058.607eb8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3g55b$lqg$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Hi,
> Thanks for your response.
> Yep, I have checked that.
> I am running tcpdump, and can see the packet go out
> and the response come back.
> The python program also dumps the packet
> but only after two packets have been sent
> does select() return and I can read the first response packet.
> 
> Any other ideas why select() is hanging?

I'm not terribly familliar with the performance of UDP datagrams, but it 
could be that the underlying network driver may be holding your data and 
not sending it until it gets more.

My win 2k machine doesn't seem to be having issues, so I don't really know.

Simplifying the code, I got the following (which works on my machine). 
Does the below work on your machine?  If so, then it is probably not the 
socket communication.

  - Josiah

#begin code
import socket
import select
import threading
import time

MY_PORT = 9999
MY_ADDR = 'localhost'

timeout = 1

my_sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
my_sock.bind((MY_ADDR, MY_PORT))

def server(count):
     ilist = []
     ilist.append(my_sock)
     while count:
         il,ol,el = select.select(ilist,[],[],timeout)
         if il != []:
             data, addr = my_sock.recvfrom(1024)
             print "Got data:", data
             count -= 1
         else:
             print "No input from select"

def client(count, data):
     for i in xrange(count):
         my_sock.sendto(data, (MY_ADDR, MY_PORT))
         time.sleep(timeout)

threading.Thread(target=server, args=(10,)).start()
client(10, "hello")



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Mar 26 07:48:53 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:48:53 -0000
Subject: Python in the laboratory
References: <cthu10chwkb.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<Xns94B889E045142cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <10689llg2m9hke1@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Xns94B889E045142cpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134>,
Harald Massa  <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>Zunbeltz Izaola 
>
>
>> papers defending the goodness of python for such aplications. 
>> Can s0mebody give me references about projects of this nature?
>
>http://pythonology.org/success
>http://python.oreilly.com/news/python_success_stories.pdf
>http://wingide.com/success/
>http://pbf.strakt.com/success
			.
			.
			.
Also <URL: http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.programming/open_source_science.html >
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From j.r.gao at motorola.com  Mon Mar  8 22:56:38 2004
From: j.r.gao at motorola.com (J.R.)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:56:38 +0800
Subject: How to send event to another window in wxPython?
Message-ID: <c2jfd7$hbu$1@newshost.mot.com>

Hi,

A parent window (wxFrame object), which has the reference to its child
window(also wxFrame object).
I want to send event or message to the child window from the parent window,
just like simulating the mouse
or keyboard activities on child window. How to implement it?

Thanks in advance,
J.R.




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 11:42:16 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:42:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
In-Reply-To: <404EE937.9CA46717@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20040310164216.27728.qmail@web13011.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, you are right, Erik.  The xml document was
successfully parsed by lower-casing XML and removing
the ampersand in the document.

Another question: If I insert some Chinese characters
in the sample xml document, then again the same python
code cannot parse it. It python code got choked
whenever it hits the 1st Chiese character.

Python says:

ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 3,
column 7

The problem remains even if I try encoding="UTF-16" or
encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
document.

Note that GB2312 and GBK are Chinese encodings.

Please give a hint.  Thanks a lot!

--- Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> 
> > <?XML version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>       ^
> 	...
> > ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line
> 1,
> > column 5
> 
> Line 1 column 5 is the L in <?XML.  That XML
> document type declaration
> is invalid; the "XML" needs to be in lowercase.
> 
> -- 
>  __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com &&
> http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> /  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W &&
> &tSftDotIotE
> \__/ It's like being on a diving board that you know
> is too high.
>     -- Sade Adu
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From kylotan at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  7 18:15:07 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 15:15:07 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<104mo6mjpc1lq74 at news.supernews.com>...

> Coupling is the enemy.
> 
> The XP people have a lot of experiance with reducing
> coupling. Writing tests first, and insisting that literally
> hundreds of unit tests run in a few seconds teaches you
> how to write code with a minimum of coupling. Some of
> those lessons aren't particularly easy.

Yeah, that's what I'm guessing. I'm at the stage where I have to
wonder whether forcing myself to make the paradigm shift will be worth
the effort or not.

> The first is to see if you can redesign using a layered
> architecture. That may force you to reduce the number
> of objects that any given object depends on.

What do you mean by layered in this context? Are you talking things
like the Bridge design pattern?

> The second is to investigate mock objects, or other
> methods of stubbing out dependencies. While you do
> need to run the entire system as a unit, there is no
> reason you need to run the real production objects
> for all tests.

That seems like a nice idea, but I've been developing this system as
an evolving prototype. I add new objects and classes as I discover I
need them. Therefore there's almost no functionality there at all that
isn't needed for the system as it stands.

Here's an example of my current system: the Creature class requires a
Race class and a World class to be instantiated, as the Creature's
__init__ function relies on calling methods of these objects (not just
on their presence). Sure, technically I could create dummy objects to
pass in that have do-nothing functions, but then I break most of
Creature's accessors, which are implemented in terms of delegating to
the other objects. In turn this would make the tests meaningless.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I create systems that arise
from the grouping of classes, and that taking the class out of context
makes it useless. I don't have many things that are low-level enough
to make sense when tested in isolation. (This contrasts heavily to my
development in C++, for example.) And the classes have very little
internal behaviour; it's all done in terms of other classes.

None of this makes testing any harder or less useful in catching bugs;
it just means that it ends up being an almost straight duplication of
my normal code, with the input handling stripped out! It hardly seems
worth the effort.

-- 
Ben Sizer


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Mar  1 13:54:25 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:54:25 -0800
Subject: Vancouver Zope and Python User Group: Meeting Annoucement
Message-ID: <03d501c3ffbe$9ebab090$0000fea9@dell8200>

Our next meeting will be held on March 2,	2004 at 7pm. As usual,
ActiveState will be hosting the meeting at 680 Granville Street.

This week Andy McKay, of ZopeZen and Plone fame, will be giving an
introduction to Zope and Plone. Afterwards, we will have a question and
answer session followed by beer at a local pub.

Cheers,
Brian 




From no.mail at available.net  Fri Mar  5 10:50:36 2004
From: no.mail at available.net (Georgy)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:50:36 GMT
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gl12c.70918$jx3.6813496@twister.southeast.rr.com>

There's standard xml modules with built-in SAX2 parser.

http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/howto/xml-howto.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/markup.html
http://www.devarticles.com/c/a/Python/Parsing-XML-with-SAX-and-Python/2/

For more samples: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=xml+python+sample&btnG=Google+Search

And the code you're looking for will be like this (not tested):

import sys
from xml.sax import make_parser, handler
class BodyOnly(handler.ContentHandler):
  def characters( self, content ):
    print content,
parser = make_parser()
parser.setContentHandler(BodyOnly())
parser.parse( "input.xml" )



"chad" <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c at posting.google.com...
| Hello, all,
|
| I am new to Python.
|
| I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and write only
| those between the tags to a text file.  In other words, if I have an
| XML document like so:
|
| <tag1>This</tag1>
|     <tag2>is</tag2>
|        <tag3>a</tag3>
| <tag1>test</tag1>
|
| I need to write "This is a test" to a text file.  How do I achieve
| this?    Thanks.




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar 31 21:02:31 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0950
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<mailman.200.1080774523.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6mv76.emm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:08:38 -0800, Michael wrote:
> Why on Earth would you leap forwards and back through a top post to
> find anything?

Why on Earth would to include the quoted material if it's irrelevant to
your post?

> You start reading at the top and read until you run into the quoted
> text. You only read the quoted text if you're curious to see which
> specific message this message was in reply to.

That information is already provided in the message headers
(specifically, the "References:" header on Usenet posts, the
"In-Reply-To:" header on emails).

> Top-posting should require you to scroll your screen less. I think if
> I started posting bottom-top text as you say you like better than
> top-posting then I'd rightly be killed by the list Gods.

If you only include the stuff you actually want to be read, then your
post is able to be read once, in a single direction.

Quote only the part of the original message you are replying to.

Reply below each part you're responding to, in chronological order.

Anything else is confusing and irritating for anyone who has learned to
read any human writing system.

-- 
 \      "It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh |
  `\                                     at that man."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 11 11:17:08 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:17:08 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <10514avne47n787@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:20 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg at 4ax.com>,
> >David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >>going to help me write some code, I won't have time to study it.  My
> >>understanding of lambda functions is simply that they are a way to
> >>squeeze functions into a tight space:
> >>
> >>list_of_funcs = [(lambda x: 2**x), (lambda x: 3**x), (lambda x: 4**x)]
> >>
> >>If you are not concerned about space, simply use normal defs:
> >>
> >>def f2(x): return 2**x
> >>def f3(x): return 3**x
> >>def f4(x): return 4**x
> >>list_of_funcs = [f2, f3, f4]
> >>
> >>Is there any other reason in Python to use lambdas?
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >In fact, *that*'s not a reason.  Part of tribal lore--a true,
> >documented part, by the way--is that Big Cheese Guido depre-
> >cates lambdas.  He says they're a mistake, and people shouldn't
>
> Wow!!  And I thought it was just me.  Could you point me to a PEP or
> other discussion?  I would sure like to know the history of this.
> Could it be that in adding "lambda calculus" to Python, Guido was
> snowed by the language theorists? <half wink>

There's a presentation on the Python site - go to Doc, then to
Guido's Essay's, then to Presentations. It's called Python Regrets.
Google has an HTML version if you use "Python Regrets Guido"
as the keywords.

The lambda keyword really has almost nothing to do with the
lambda calculus: it's about a number of functional extensions
that are all being phased out over a period of time.


> I think it is really cool that a language can actually have a mistake
> like this corrected.  In the commercial world I'm used to, such a
> feature would become part of the core religion, and any questioning
> would eventually be met with "There are just some things you can't
> understand.  Get back to work!"

There are a few too many of these in Python as well. It's going
to be a long time for the language to evolve, especially since
there seems to be a religious cult that is holding on to release
1.5.2 like it will insure their salvation.

John Roth

>




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Mar  4 08:07:12 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:07:12 GMT
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
References: <anmrxqkvslivwfoftnt@python.org>
	<mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fb2d73eaa645ff575543d383332c4dcf@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:02 -0500, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>
wrote:

>It shouldn't need to be said, but if you get a message that looks like this:
>
>> Dear user of Python.org gateway e-mail server,
>>
>> We  warn  you about some attacks on your  e-mail account. Your
>> computer may contain viruses, in order to keep your computer and
>> e-mail account safe, please, follow the  instructions.
>>
>> For details see  the attached file.
>>
>> For  security  reasons attached file is password protected. The
>> password is "28132".
>>
>> Cheers,
>>     The Python.org team
>> http://www.python.org
>
>it's not from anyone at python.org, and the zip file attached contains a
>Windows virus.  But if you run it anyway, I'm sure Guido will be happy to
>fly to your house and clean up your PC.
>
>it's-the-least-he-could-do-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim
>
I also received it at my lazytwinacres domain, from my own management
team, hahaha.  Well, that's what the reply-to said.  Since I manage
the email accounts, I somehow doubted its validity.  I was surprised
that the attachment is only about 16k, instead of the usual 134k.
    --dang
p.s.
For security reasons, can I use your password?  ;-)


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar  2 12:32:35 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:42:21 GMT, "Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com>
wrote:

>Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> The right thing to do (if it were to happen at all) is to make
>> fileobject.softspace "sticky" under some condition, perhaps after a
>> call to fileobject.SetSoftSpace(False) (which doesn't currently
>> exist).
>
>The right thing to do is to put make stdout a builtin and deprecate the
>print statement.  The "smart" behavior of the print statement causes more
>trouble than it's worth.  I admit that I use the print statement myself
>occasionally, but only because 'sys.stdout.write' is too long to type all
>the time, and never with more than one argument.

The 'print' statement is just shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write' with
some convenience features suitable for most users.  If you need
something else, just define your own shortcut, don't deprecate a
statement that is exactly what most users want.

>>> wrt = sys.stdout.write
>>> wrt('abc'); wrt('xyz\n'); wrt('abc'); wrt('xyz')
abcxyz
abcxyz

Now you have explicit control over the \n, and the new statement
(including parens) is the same number of characters as 'print'.

We need to resist the temptation to *change* the core language, when
*extending* it using normal function syntax is so easy.

Note: You can also change the behavior of 'print' by redefining
'sys.stdout.write'.  You can even hide that redefinition deep in some
imported module, where future maintainers of your code will never find
it. :>)

-- Dave



From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Fri Mar 26 10:29:07 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:29:07 GMT
Subject: [Way OT] Condorcet vs. IRV
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet@verizon.net>
	<slrnc66do0.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet@verizon.net>
	<slrnc66led.77h.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <7%X8c.34$CO6.8@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:26:01 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:
> In article <1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet at verizon.net>, Eric wrote:
>> Off the top of my head, the only inherent problem with it that I see is
>> that what happens if 'NONE' turns out to be the Condorcet Winner? 
>
> Then the electorate has expressed its sincere opinion that no government
> at all is better than any of the candidates.  Government should be
> immediately dissolved and anarchy instituted.
>

Have you ever wondered why it is that anarchists have a symbol to unite
them? :)



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:08:38 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:08:38 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <406B4F76.1040406@mlug.missouri.edu>


>This is actually better than top-posting. At least the reading
>direction is _consistently_ upwards, rather than requiring people to
>leap forwards and back through the post in a desperate attempt to find
>the clues they need.
>
That'd get really interesting when posting code examples. Why on Earth 
would you leap forwards and back through a top post to find anything? 
You start reading at the top and read until you run into the quoted 
text. You only read the quoted text if you're curious to see which 
specific message this message was in reply to. Top-posting should 
require you to scroll your screen less. I think if I started posting 
bottom-top text as you say you like better than top-posting then I'd 
rightly be killed by the list Gods.



From htgk at mail.com  Mon Mar 22 04:26:53 2004
From: htgk at mail.com (Moe A)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 01:26:53 -0800
Subject: In what python release was this introduced..
Message-ID: <74dd441a.0403220126.12ec063f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

i need to list dependencies for my package & was wondering in what
python release could you start making 'in <string>' calls with more
than one char..eg:

"JESUS" in bible

instead of

"J" in bible


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 19 21:51:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:51:00 -0700
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>
	<405A5EC9.6010503@yahoo.com.au>
	<2eu6c.25407$P45.19517@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<zdF6c.52734$H44.970386@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<405B5E20.AD0EAB6D@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <f8bn50hfr6dv17d3hi86r24ctnchpl64qp@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:54:56 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Andrew Koenig wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure that IEEE floating point requires NaN to be defined in
>> such
>> a way that if x is NaN, then x == x must yield False.
>
>That's correct.  Python itself doesn't do this, though:
>
>Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 22 2003, 23:44:26) 
>[GCC 3.2.3] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> a = 1e3000
>>>> a
>inf
>>>> a/a
>nan
>>>> n = a/a
>>>> n == n
>True
>>>> 
>
>[Similar things are shown for Python on Solaris 8.]
>

On a Windows system I get different results, depending on whether I
run Python from a command line, or from IDLE !!

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
...
>>> a = 1e3000
>>> a
1.#INF
>>> a/a
-1.*IND
>>> n = a/a
>>> n == n
False
>>> n
-1.#IND
>>> n + 1
-1.#IND
>>>

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
...
IDLE 1.0.2      
>>> a = 1e3000
>>> a
1.0
>>> a/a
1.0
>>> n = a/a
>>> n == n
True
>>> n
1.0
>>> n + 1
2.0
>>>

How can IDLE be messing with what happens at the machine level?
Returning an innocent-looking result like 1.0 can hide a serious
problem in the code.  This is not just a display problem.  As you can
see from the last line, subsequent calculations are screwed up (in
IDLE only).

>>> hex(n)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#31>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    hex(n)
TypeError: hex() argument can't be converted to hex
>>> 

but I see this is true for any float.  It would be nice to see what is
really there.

-- Dave



From dieter at handshake.de  Mon Mar 22 14:52:39 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 20:52:39 +0100
Subject: J2EE/EJB and Python
References: <mailman.203.1079863124.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7y8pslkvs.fsf@handshake.de>

Silvana Di Martino <silvanadimartino at tin.it> writes on Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:56:07 +0000:
> ...
> Looking around, I found a few Application Servers (like "Crusader": 
> http://www.movatis.com/crusader), Transaction Servers and Distributed Object 
> Technology systems (like "PyRO": http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyro) that 
> vaguely resemble to parts of J2EE so I think it is not impossible that a 
> Python-based J2EE competitor/equivalent has ever been planned.

You get part of the picture with Zope (http://www.zope.org).

Compared with J2EE+EJB, Zope lacks request spanning transactions
and the third tier corresponding to EJB containers.

We use Zope as base of an E-Commerce platform.
We recently replaced a J2EE+EJB E-commerce solution
by the Zope based platform. The Zope solution was much
lighter weight (especially with respect to development time).


Dieter


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Wed Mar 31 08:19:21 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:19:21 +0200
Subject: python & mysql probelm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.169.1080733471.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.460.1080336449.742.python-list@python.org>	<c4e9jf$2gq8i4$1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.169.1080733471.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4eggp$2h55aa$1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael schrieb:

> 
>> But why not use a genuine parametrized query:
>>
>> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid "
>>                "between %s and %s", (id1, id2))
>>
>> Especially if you need to execute the same query several times with 
>> changing parameters this is faster as far as I know, because the query 
>> is prepared once. 
> 
> 
> Really? I have wondered what the difference was. Is there any other 
> difference in doing it this way rather than with string substitution?
> 

The result set should be the same in both cases. I think it's more 
readable to use parameters: you clearly differentiate between the query 
and its parameters. String substitution could just as well change the 
query itself.

And if it isn't select but insert or update, you can use

cursor.executemany(SQLstatement, params)

where params is a list of tuples, to execute SQLstatement for every 
parameter tuple.

HTH
Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From jgentil at sebistar.net  Sat Mar  6 00:20:01 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:20:01 -0600
Subject: Enumerating words and Adding integer, character and string
In-Reply-To: <20040306031517.67563.qmail@web60809.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040306031517.67563.qmail@web60809.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1078550400.1261.3.camel@mastermind>

On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 21:15, dont bother wrote:

> 1. How do I make a vector of words in a file.
> Ex:
> File has 
> 
> Alpha
> Beta 
> Gamma
> 
> I want to have this file:
> 1 Alpha
> 2 Beta
> 3 Gamma
> 
> I just dont want to write it/print it instead I want a
> mapping. A vector kind of thing whose first attribute
> is interger second is the 'word'

f = open("filename", "r")
for l in f:
    print l

> 2. How to I create a string for example by adding:
> 
> s=1 + ":" + "dont"
> 
> this does not work if I normally try to concatenate
> and write to a file.

s = string(1) + ":" + "dont"

Remember that even though variables have no type declaration, Python is
a strongly-typed language.  Adding a string to an integer just doesn't
work, the integer.

-- 
Jon-Pierre Gentil      :   PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
    AIM: Zenethian     :   Jabber: zenethian at jabber.org

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From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 11 04:49:26 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:49:26 +0200
Subject: Scope question
In-Reply-To: <c2p3fc$1uqag0$1@ID-64892.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c2p3fc$1uqag0$1@ID-64892.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40503626.8070507@zoran.com>

Hello Subhash,

> --- BEGIN ---
> counter = 0
> 
> def foo():
>   if counter < 10:
>     print "count = ", counter
>     counter += 1
> 
> foo()
> --- END ---
Today we have generators:
 >>> def foo():
	for count in range(10):
		print "count = ", count
		yield count
		count += 1
 >>> gen = foo()
 >>> gen.next()
count =  0
0
 >>> gen.next()
count =  1
1
 >>>

HTH.
Miki


From haynesc at rockefeller.edu  Fri Mar  5 17:33:33 2004
From: haynesc at rockefeller.edu (Chad Haynes)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:33:33 -0500
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
Message-ID: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>

Hello,

I have a wxPython application that I want to create an executable from. 
  Using py2exe produces a program that works very well, but the 
appearance is slightly different than when it was run from the command 
line.  The py2exe version is a little more bland.  Here are links to 
some screenshots:

http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/dos.jpg
http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/py2exe.jpg

I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

-Chad


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar 21 02:53:48 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:53:48 -0800
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F31@opus.amorhq.net>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> > Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> > 
> >>def restrain(value, theMin, theMax) :
> >>
> >>     assert(theMax >= theMin)
> >>     return min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > I'd find a limit() function more useful, where either min or max is
> > optional:
> > 
> > def limit(value, lower=None, upper=None):
> >     """Return value limited by lower and/or upper bounds."""
> >     
> >     if upper is not None:
> >         value = min(value, upper)
> >     if lower is not None:
> >         value = max(value, lower)
> >     return value
> > 
> > This allows for single-boundary limits
>8
> > And a no-op
> > 
> I was trying to make it as fast as possible but the additional 
> flexibility is nice. The word 'limit' is probably closer to 
> min and max and easier to read.  I wonder if the word limit
> would clash with more existing programs though.

Probably. But there's no way to tell without a master database of all
Python programs everywhere. ;) So don't sweat it.

> > Also, you don't need to assert that upper >= lower; in 
> fact, if upper is
> > less than lower, you can use the same function for 
> exclusive boundaries:
> > 
> > 
> >>>>limit(3, 5, 1)
> > 
> > 5
> True, however, the reason for such a function, instead of the inline 
> min(max()) was to provide for some protection in some defensive 
> programming way.

Hmmmmyrmmmyeah. I usually see the term "defensive programming" in the
context of buffer overflows, etc. but it sounds like you're using it in
the sense of "O Lord, protect us from ourselves." That raises red flags
for me, given Python's "consenting adults" philosophy. Sounds like
Somebody Else's Language you're talking about there. ;)

> > However, I find both restrain(3, 1, 5) and limit(3, 1, 5) 
> difficult to
> > read. It would be nice to produce the same thing with some 
> other syntax.
> I agree that the way it reads leaves me wishing for some Smalltalkish 
> way of saying:  limit value to min,max
> 
> > If we did it in C, we could at least write: limit(lower=None, value,
> > upper=None). But perhaps there's some other means I'm not 
> thinking of.
> > It'd be nice to have "value" look different than upper and 
> lower. Maybe
> > something like: limit(value, (lower, upper)), or even 
> value.limit(lower,
> > upper) using a __limit__ customizable method. Hmm.
> 
> However, if upper and lower are inside a tuple, then restrain 
> (or limit) 
> could not be used to restrain or limit multi-dimensional values like 
> tuple and list like in:
> 
>  >>> map(restrain, (10,15,20) , (11,14,19) , (12,18, 20))
> [11, 15, 20]

True. I think if I were to write my own version today in pure Python,
it'd be invoked as: limit(object, lower, upper), where <object> could be
an iterable. I see that as a much more common use case; that is, mapping
the same pair of boundaries to multiple items.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From deets_noospaam at web.de  Fri Mar  5 13:44:16 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:44:16 +0100
Subject: Almost Done: Need some Help in Generating FEATURE VECTORS
References: <mailman.12.1078479379.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2ahq1$14e$06$1@news.t-online.com>

You could create a dict that maps every word to the feature index - then for
creating the feature vector you simply create a list with size of the # of
words in the dict an set in this list the corresponding index.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Mar  6 09:03:11 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:03:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mysql-python installation problems....
References: <e84f5d12.0403060521.17371bfc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2clmv$1jf$4@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

google account <mynews44 at yahoo.com> pisze:

> I have done all that I know how....
> 
> I am using fedora core1,  I believe.  I have updated the MySQL version
> to 4.0.17-0.
> 
> I am trying this:
> 
> rpm -i MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm 
> warning: MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY,
> key ID 930b8ab6
> error: Failed dependencies:
>         libmysqlclient_r.so.10 is needed by MySQL-python2.1-0.9.2-1

It is client library from MySQL 3.23. I had no success in compiling
MySQLdb from sources either.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 03:10:54 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:10:54 -0800
Subject: CGI with python help newbie
References: <uEa8c.39708$Bg.1320@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <cob8c.40086$Bg.15568@fed1read03>

I appreciate the response...

But, when I try something like this...

from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
    req.content_type = "text/plain"
    req.write("Hello World!")
    return apache.OK

it simply prints the code to the browser when I go to the page.

How do I get the interpreter working from within the browser.
Thanks in advance.


"Amy G" <amy-g-art at cox.net> wrote in message
news:uEa8c.39708$Bg.1320 at fed1read03...
> I have been doing some programming in python for a while now, but have
> always used perl for cgi scripting.  I would like to try using python
> because of its ease of programming.
>
> If I already have apache web server installed and have the python
> interpreter running with no problems.
>
> What is needed to get a python script working over my web server.
>
> For example I have the following:
>
> #!/usr/locla/bin/python
> print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
>
>
> first, middle, last = 5, 7.5, 10
>
> print "first:", first
> print "middle:", middle
> print "last:", last, "\n"
>
>
> I would like it to print out to the browser:
> 5 7.5 10
>
> Any help?
>
> Thanks
>
>




From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Mar  6 10:01:16 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:01:16 +0100
Subject: mechanics to specify an interface
References: <c2c8kk$oat$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <c2cp47$r52$1@newshispeed.ch>

I usually do that this way:

class IExpense:
   def id(self):
      raise NotImplementedError

class TimeExposure(IExpense):
   def __init__(self, ...):
      ...

   def id(self):
      ...

HTH
Franz GEIGER

"Uwe Mayer" <merkosh at hadiko.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c2c8kk$oat$1 at news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de...
> Hi,
>
> in my program I want to "specify" that some object implements i.e. the
> dictionary or list interface.
> What is the Python way to do that?
>
> i.e. in Java I'd include an interface.
> in Python I could write an abstract class and inherit from it (probably
> needs multiple inheritance), or I could just specify that in a comment.
>
> What'd you suggest?
> Thanks in advance
> Uwe
>




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Mar 10 23:06:44 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:06:44 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<irudnZKm-PpGX9LdRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <l555i1-1iv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

DH wrote:
>    - pychecker bundled with python, since it catches so many errors
>        beginners and non-beginners make.

I would LOVE to see that, or even a special "checking" mode for the
interpretter even if it ran ten times slower.  Pychecker has been
become increasingly useless to me.  Part of that is due to bugs
(SF #844960, #708546), part due it being incomplete, and part
due to wxWidgets defining every function as (*args, **kwargs)
and indirecting through a layer of Swig.  I get a huge list
of false positives.

>    - make colons optional after function and class declarations.  People
>        forget to type them anyway.

I don't agree with that.  With the current scheme, it is trivial for
editors to auto-indent.  They just have to do so after any line
ending in a colon, with no exceptions to that rule.

The case suggestion makes things appear better in the short term,
but do lots more harm in the long term, making maintenance and
performance significantly harder.  If you would like to understand
some of the issues, I would recommend writing a translator between
the "relaxed" Python you describe and the standard Python.

Roger




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 20:00:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:00:37 -0500
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <jKKdnVcj5pGpEcLdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> I keep hearing this, but I don't see any large (much less very large)
> applications that have been done in Python; Zope is medium sized.
> 
> Suppose you wanted to write any of the following:
> 
> 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> 10) ... well you get the idea.
> 
> Which, if any, would you write in Python?  By "write in Python" I mean
> the central framework and most of the code is written in Python,
> though you're allowed to use the C API as needed.  Using Python to
> provide some functions around the edges (e.g. the operator UI for the
> phone switch) doesn't count.  Note that these are all supposed to be
> used in production and not just as technology demos, so speed matters
> (nobody wants a compiler that's 10x slower than GCC.  GCC is slow
> enough already).
> 
> I think I'd spend some time at least considering Python in each of the
> above cases, but I'm not sure I could convincingly make it fly for any
> of them.

D'oh!  You ask this just before some of us have to leave for PyCon?!
How cruel!  ;-)

(Hmm... maybe a BOF for "serious s/w engineering with Python" or
something like that?)

-Peter


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar 18 07:01:24 2004
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:01:24 -0000
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D012010C1@intrepid>

> From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk [mailto:SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk]
> I raised this with James Strachan and a London Java meetup 
> when he first
> dreamt up Groovy. Thing is, he likes Java syntax, and doesn't 
> really like
> Python that much:
> 
> <http://wiki.codehaus.org/groovy/PythonLanguage>

See also: <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000940.html>

Cheers,
Simon Brunning,
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk 
--LongSig




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From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Mar 23 23:31:07 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:31:07 -0800
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
References: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<pl36j1-10q.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3qo9v$tr3$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <rgf7j1-ke2.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Any new stuff I write (ha!) I'll use the most recent Python.

It would be really nice if you could get together with TLS Lite.
That way Python will have a pure Python implementation of it
all, but also native code accelerators.  You have both also
done integration work with the Python standard library
(httplib, xmlrpc etc) and there isn't any value in
duplication.

Roger




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Mar  7 07:42:54 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:42:54 +0100
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
In-Reply-To: <OCE2c.105781$jf4.6357260@news000.worldonline.dk>
References: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<20040307020101.539$r9@news.newsreader.com>
	<OCE2c.105781$jf4.6357260@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <404b18ce$0$565$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Bo Jacobsen wrote:

> I'm been looking at perl and python, and I really like the strict syntax,
> handling
> of function parameters etc. Without include and function prototyping though,
> will probably have the effect that large source files, with a lot of
> function
> definitions at the top, will be generated. Not god.

Why do you think this is so?

Have a look at any Python example sourcecode (for that matter,
at some of the .py files from Python's standard library; for instance
cgi.py) and you will see that Python's import mechanism is working fine.
No big source files with lots of definitions at the top.
Just import the module which contains the definitions you need...


> Perl on the other hand has it all, including very productive features as
> built-in
> regular expressions, file scanning etc.

Python has the re/sre module for regular expression stuff.
File scanning is often done like this:
	for line in open("myfile.txt"):
		process(line)

> . ./filename
> Is the shell "include/execute" command.

Python's "include" command is the import statement.
If you really want (but WHY?) to read in and directly
execute another source file, use the execfile function.

--Irmen


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 14:33:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:33:52 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>
Message-ID: <c280b0$1g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Gregor Lingl wrote:

> I think I understand why it is the case - the timing factor
> is proportional to the square of len(wordlist), because
> in every loop a list d.keys() has to be computed and now
> this has to be used for searching for the key sig,
> while for sig in d uses some built-in generator-property
> of dictionaries ...  (?)

I think you do not understand. The change from

key in theDict # old style would be theDict.has_key(key)

to

# iterkeys() can sometimes be used to avoid the creation of 
# the list with all keys, you would have to introduce a for loop.
# But keys vs iterkeys is not the relevant difference here
key in theDict.keys()                       


changes the lookup from constant time (a hash value is calculated which is
used as an index into a list of values if all goes well) to proportonial to
len(theDict) because on average half of the list has to be searched before
the matching entry is found.

Peter


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Mar  3 04:23:32 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:23:32 -0000 
Subject: NT service (setting Description string)
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434744@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>From: Thomas Heller [mailto:theller at python.net]
>"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> writes:
>
>> Anybody know what variable I need to define in my
>> class to set the long description that shows up
>> in the Services control panel applet?
>>
>> _svc_name_         holds the short name
>> _svc_display_name_ holds the long name
>> _svc_?????_        holds the description
>
>There isn't any yet.  Apparently you have to call the win32 api
>ChangeServiceConfig2() (but maybe it can also be done with the wmi
>module).
>
>Thomas

Haven't tried it myself, but the Win32_Service WMI class does
 sport a Change method with the following signature:

 uint32 Change(
  string DisplayName,
  string PathName,
  uint32 ServiceType,
  uint32 ErrorControl,
  string StartMode,
  boolean DesktopInteract,
  string StartName,
  string StartPassword,
  string LoadOrderGroup,
  string LoadOrderGroupDependencies,
  string ServiceDependencies
);

All right; I did try it. It works:

<screendump>

ActivePython 2.2.3 Build 227 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.3 (#42, Nov 13 2003, 09:57:55) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import wmi
>>> c = wmi.WMI ()
>>> for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="dnscache"): print service.Name,
service.DisplayName
...
Dnscache DNS Client
>>> service.Change (DisplayName="New DNS Client")
(<win32com.gen_py.Microsoft WMI Scripting V1.1 Library.ISWbemProperty
instance at 0x13968496>,)
>>> for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="dnscache"): print service.Name,
service.DisplayName
...
Dnscache New DNS Client
>>>

</screendump>

TJG

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From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 29 03:50:44 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 08:50:44 GMT
Subject: sorting times
References: <4af8e6c7.0403241450.74350e21@posting.google.com>
	<40649711$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94BB628CE546Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote in 
news:40649711$1 at nntp0.pdx.net:

>> I implemented both algorithms in C , as bubble sort used to take 8
>> hours.
> Actually, just use the python implementations for both -- you are
> supposed to be looking at time complexity, not speed.  At suitably
> smaller sizes, you'll still be able to watch your program finish.

Since he has actually implemented them in C, he could try for extra bonus 
marks and compare the speed and complexity of his implementations with 
Python's built-in sort. Those results could be quite interesting.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 08:40:12 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:40:12 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <m3oeqy9t1i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2.1079209742.688.python-list@python.org>
	<bri8509bb89euassu0r95su43a4lq4vssb@4ax.com>
	<m3oeqy9t1i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <16469.45628.156204.94476@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> >I wrote something and threw it up on my Python Bits page:
    >> >
    >> >    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/
    >> 
    >> I get AttributeErrors when I try the super_reload function. Looks
    >> like sys.modules has a bunch of items with no '__dict__'.

    Michael> They'll be None, mostly.

What's the significance of an entry in sys.modules with a value of None?
That is, how did they get there and why are they there?

Skip



From sher07 at mindspring.com  Sat Mar 20 02:58:16 2004
From: sher07 at mindspring.com (Benjamin Sher)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:58:16 GMT
Subject: Installing SIP with QT Enabled for Python Applications
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.20.07.57.59.873253@mindspring.com>

Dear friends:

[USING XANDROS/DEBIAN with KDE 3.1.4 and Python 2.3 and Python 2.3-dev]

I would appreciate your help in installing SIP with QT support so that I can
then install PyQT. My reason is that I would like to install a number of KDE
applications that require as a prerequisite SIP and PyQT.

As an ordinary user, I recognize my limitations as far as programming. My
dilemma is that this stuff is quite difficult and beyond my competence, but I
would like to install these prerequisites so that I can than install and run
the programs based on them.

The error message says that configure could not find qglobal.h. Yet, it is 
clearly listed in the two qt3 directories below.

Thank you so much.

Benjamin

LIST OF PROGRAMS ON MY COMPUTER:

Please see the following URL:

http://www.websher.net/SIP-QT1.txt

WHEREIS TMAKE:
sher at Dell:~$ whereis tmake
tmake: /usr/bin/tmake /etc/tmake /usr/share/tmake /usr/share/man/man1/
tmake.1.gz
sher at Dell:~$

sher at Dell:~/L-Files/Downloads/Python/sip-4.0rc3$ export TMAKEPATH=/usr/share/
tmake/linux-g++

sher at Dell:~/L-Files/Downloads/Python/sip-4.0rc3$ QTDIR=/usr/include/qt3
?python configure.py
This is SIP 4.0rc3 for Python 2.3.2 on linux2.
Error: qglobal.h could not be found in /usr/include/qt3/include/qt.

sher at Dell:~/L-Files/Downloads/Python/sip-4.0rc3$
?QTDIR=/usr/share/include/qt3/ python configure.py
This is SIP 4.0rc3 for Python 2.3.2 on linux2.
Error: qglobal.h could not be found in /usr/share/include/qt3//include/qt.

WHEREIS TMAKE:
sher at Dell:~$ whereis tmake
tmake: /usr/bin/tmake /etc/tmake /usr/share/tmake /usr/share/man/man1/
tmake.1.gz
sher at Dell:~$


USR/INCLUDE/QT3:

sher at Dell:~$ cd /usr/include/qt3
sher at Dell:/usr/include/qt3$ ls
private ? ? ? ? ? ? qhostaddress.h ? ? ? ? ? qscrollbar.h
q1xcompatibility.h ?qhttp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qscrollview.h
qabstractlayout.h ? qiconset.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsemaphore.h
qaccel.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qiconview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsemimodal.h
qaction.h ? ? ? ? ? qimageformatplugin.h ? ? qserversocket.h
qapp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qimage.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsession.h
qapplication.h ? ? ?qinputdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qsessionmanager.h
qarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qintcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsettings.h
qasciicache.h ? ? ? qintcach.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsgistyle.h
qasciidict.h ? ? ? ?qintdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qshared.h
qasyncimageio.h ? ? qinterlacestyle.h ? ? ? ?qsignal.h
qasyncio.h ? ? ? ? ?qiodev.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsignalmapper.h
qbig5codec.h ? ? ? ?qiodevice.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsignalslotimp.h
qbitarray.h ? ? ? ? qjiscodec.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsimplerichtext.h
qbitarry.h ? ? ? ? ?qjpegio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsizegrip.h
qbitmap.h ? ? ? ? ? qjpunicode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsize.h
qbrush.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qkeycode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsizepolicy.h
qbttngrp.h ? ? ? ? ?qkeysequence.h ? ? ? ? ? qsjiscodec.h
qbuffer.h ? ? ? ? ? qlabel.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qslider.h
qbuttongroup.h ? ? ?qlayout.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketdevice.h
qbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qlcdnumber.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocket.h
qcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qlcdnum.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketnotifier.h
qcanvas.h ? ? ? ? ? qlibrary.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocknot.h
qcdestyle.h ? ? ? ? qlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsortedlist.h
qcheckbox.h ? ? ? ? qlineedit.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsound.h
qchkbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qlistbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qspinbox.h
qcleanuphandler.h ? qlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplashscreen.h
qclipboard.h ? ? ? ?qlistview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplitter.h
qclipbrd.h ? ? ? ? ?qlocalfs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlcursor.h
qcollect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmainwindow.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldatabase.h
qcollection.h ? ? ? qmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqldriver.h
qcolordialog.h ? ? ?qmemarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldriverplugin.h
qcolor.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenubar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqleditorfactory.h
qcombobox.h ? ? ? ? qmenudata.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlerror.h
qcombo.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenudta.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlfield.h
qcommonstyle.h ? ? ?qmessagebox.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlform.h
qcompactstyle.h ? ? qmetaobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsql.h
qconfig.h ? ? ? ? ? qmetaobj.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlindex.h
qconnect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmime.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlpropertymap.h
qconnection.h ? ? ? qmlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlquery.h
qcstring.h ? ? ? ? ?qmngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlrecord.h
qcursor.h ? ? ? ? ? qmodules.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlresult.h
qdatabrowser.h ? ? ?qmotifplusstyle.h ? ? ? ?qsqlselectcursor.h
qdatastream.h ? ? ? qmotifstyle.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qstack.h
qdatatable.h ? ? ? ?qmovie.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstatusbar.h
qdataview.h ? ? ? ? qmsgbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstring.h
qdatetimeedit.h ? ? qmultilinedit.h ? ? ? ? ?qstringlist.h
qdatetime.h ? ? ? ? qmultilineedit.h ? ? ? ? qstrlist.h
qdatetm.h ? ? ? ? ? qmutex.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstrvec.h
qdeepcopy.h ? ? ? ? qnamespace.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qstylefactory.h
qdesktopwidget.h ? ?qnetwork.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstyle.h
qdial.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qnetworkprotocol.h ? ? ? qstyleplugin.h
qdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qnp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstylesheet.h
qdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qobjcoll.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsyntaxhighlighter.h
qdir.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtabbar.h
qdns.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjectcleanuphandler.h ?qtabdialog.h
qdockarea.h ? ? ? ? qobjectdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabdlg.h
qdockwindow.h ? ? ? qobjectdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtable.h
qdom.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabwidget.h
qdragobject.h ? ? ? qobjectlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextbrowser.h
qdrawutil.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdc.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecfactory.h
qdrawutl.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicedefs.h ? ? ? qtextcodec.h
qdropsite.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdevice.h ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecplugin.h
qdstream.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicemetrics.h ? ?qtextedit.h
qeditorfactory.h ? ?qpaintd.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextstream.h
qerrormessage.h ? ? qpainter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextview.h
qeucjpcodec.h ? ? ? qpair.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qt.h
qeuckrcodec.h ? ? ? qpalette.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthread.h
qevent.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qpdevmet.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthreadstorage.h
qeventloop.h ? ? ? ?qpen.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtimer.h
qfeatures.h ? ? ? ? qpicture.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtl.h
qfiledef.h ? ? ? ? ?qpixmapcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qtoolbar.h
qfiledialog.h ? ? ? qpixmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtoolbox.h
qfiledlg.h ? ? ? ? ?qplatinumstyle.h ? ? ? ? qtoolbutton.h
qfile.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpmcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtooltip.h
qfileinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtranslator.h
qfileinfo.h ? ? ? ? qpntarry.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtsciicodec.h
qfocusdata.h ? ? ? ?qpointarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtstream.h
qfontdatabase.h ? ? qpoint.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurl.h
qfontdialog.h ? ? ? qpolygonscanner.h ? ? ? ?qurlinfo.h
qfont.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpopmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurloperator.h
qfontinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpopupmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qutfcodec.h
qfontinfo.h ? ? ? ? qprintdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? quuid.h
qfontmet.h ? ? ? ? ?qprinter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvalidator.h
qfontmetrics.h ? ? ?qprndlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qvaluelist.h
qframe.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qprocess.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluestack.h
qftp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qprogbar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluevector.h
qgarray.h ? ? ? ? ? qprogdlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvariant.h
qgb18030codec.h ? ? qprogressbar.h ? ? ? ? ? qvbox.h
qgbkcodec.h ? ? ? ? qprogressdialog.h ? ? ? ?qvbuttongroup.h
qgcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qpsprn.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvector.h
qgdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrcollection.h ? ? ? ? qvgroupbox.h
qgeneric.h ? ? ? ? ?qptrdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwaitcondition.h
qgif.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwhatsthis.h
qglcolormap.h ? ? ? qptrqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidcoll.h
qgl.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qptrstack.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetfactory.h
qglist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrvector.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidget.h
qglobal.h ? ? ? ? ? qpushbt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetintdict.h
qgplugin.h ? ? ? ? ?qpushbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetlist.h
qgrid.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetplugin.h
qgridview.h ? ? ? ? qradiobt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetstack.h
qgroupbox.h ? ? ? ? qradiobutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qwindefs.h
qgrpbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qrangecontrol.h ? ? ? ? ?qwindowdefs.h
qguardedptr.h ? ? ? qrangect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwindowsstyle.h
qgvector.h ? ? ? ? ?qrect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwinexport.h
qhbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qregexp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwizard.h
qhbuttongroup.h ? ? qregion.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwmatrix.h

USR/SHARE/QT3/INCLUDE:

sher at Dell:/usr/share/qt3/include$ ls
private ? ? ? ? ? ? qhostaddress.h ? ? ? ? ? qscrollbar.h
q1xcompatibility.h ?qhttp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qscrollview.h
qabstractlayout.h ? qiconset.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsemaphore.h
qaccel.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qiconview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsemimodal.h
qaction.h ? ? ? ? ? qimageformatplugin.h ? ? qserversocket.h
qapp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qimage.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsession.h
qapplication.h ? ? ?qinputdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qsessionmanager.h
qarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qintcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsettings.h
qasciicache.h ? ? ? qintcach.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsgistyle.h
qasciidict.h ? ? ? ?qintdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qshared.h
qasyncimageio.h ? ? qinterlacestyle.h ? ? ? ?qsignal.h
qasyncio.h ? ? ? ? ?qiodev.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsignalmapper.h
qbig5codec.h ? ? ? ?qiodevice.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsignalslotimp.h
qbitarray.h ? ? ? ? qjiscodec.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsimplerichtext.h
qbitarry.h ? ? ? ? ?qjpegio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsizegrip.h
qbitmap.h ? ? ? ? ? qjpunicode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsize.h
qbrush.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qkeycode.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsizepolicy.h
qbttngrp.h ? ? ? ? ?qkeysequence.h ? ? ? ? ? qsjiscodec.h
qbuffer.h ? ? ? ? ? qlabel.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qslider.h
qbuttongroup.h ? ? ?qlayout.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketdevice.h
qbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qlcdnumber.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocket.h
qcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qlcdnum.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsocketnotifier.h
qcanvas.h ? ? ? ? ? qlibrary.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsocknot.h
qcdestyle.h ? ? ? ? qlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsortedlist.h
qcheckbox.h ? ? ? ? qlineedit.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsound.h
qchkbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qlistbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qspinbox.h
qcleanuphandler.h ? qlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplashscreen.h
qclipboard.h ? ? ? ?qlistview.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsplitter.h
qclipbrd.h ? ? ? ? ?qlocalfs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlcursor.h
qcollect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmainwindow.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldatabase.h
qcollection.h ? ? ? qmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqldriver.h
qcolordialog.h ? ? ?qmemarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqldriverplugin.h
qcolor.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenubar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqleditorfactory.h
qcombobox.h ? ? ? ? qmenudata.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlerror.h
qcombo.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qmenudta.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlfield.h
qcommonstyle.h ? ? ?qmessagebox.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlform.h
qcompactstyle.h ? ? qmetaobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qsql.h
qconfig.h ? ? ? ? ? qmetaobj.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlindex.h
qconnect.h ? ? ? ? ?qmime.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlpropertymap.h
qconnection.h ? ? ? qmlined.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qsqlquery.h
qcstring.h ? ? ? ? ?qmngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlrecord.h
qcursor.h ? ? ? ? ? qmodules.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsqlresult.h
qdatabrowser.h ? ? ?qmotifplusstyle.h ? ? ? ?qsqlselectcursor.h
qdatastream.h ? ? ? qmotifstyle.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qstack.h
qdatatable.h ? ? ? ?qmovie.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstatusbar.h
qdataview.h ? ? ? ? qmsgbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstring.h
qdatetimeedit.h ? ? qmultilinedit.h ? ? ? ? ?qstringlist.h
qdatetime.h ? ? ? ? qmultilineedit.h ? ? ? ? qstrlist.h
qdatetm.h ? ? ? ? ? qmutex.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstrvec.h
qdeepcopy.h ? ? ? ? qnamespace.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qstylefactory.h
qdesktopwidget.h ? ?qnetwork.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qstyle.h
qdial.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qnetworkprotocol.h ? ? ? qstyleplugin.h
qdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? qnp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qstylesheet.h
qdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qobjcoll.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qsyntaxhighlighter.h
qdir.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtabbar.h
qdns.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobjectcleanuphandler.h ?qtabdialog.h
qdockarea.h ? ? ? ? qobjectdefs.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabdlg.h
qdockwindow.h ? ? ? qobjectdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtable.h
qdom.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qobject.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtabwidget.h
qdragobject.h ? ? ? qobjectlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextbrowser.h
qdrawutil.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdc.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecfactory.h
qdrawutl.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicedefs.h ? ? ? qtextcodec.h
qdropsite.h ? ? ? ? qpaintdevice.h ? ? ? ? ? qtextcodecplugin.h
qdstream.h ? ? ? ? ?qpaintdevicemetrics.h ? ?qtextedit.h
qeditorfactory.h ? ?qpaintd.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtextstream.h
qerrormessage.h ? ? qpainter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtextview.h
qeucjpcodec.h ? ? ? qpair.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qt.h
qeuckrcodec.h ? ? ? qpalette.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthread.h
qevent.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qpdevmet.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qthreadstorage.h
qeventloop.h ? ? ? ?qpen.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtimer.h
qfeatures.h ? ? ? ? qpicture.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtl.h
qfiledef.h ? ? ? ? ?qpixmapcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qtoolbar.h
qfiledialog.h ? ? ? qpixmap.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qtoolbox.h
qfiledlg.h ? ? ? ? ?qplatinumstyle.h ? ? ? ? qtoolbutton.h
qfile.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpmcache.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtooltip.h
qfileinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpngio.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtranslator.h
qfileinfo.h ? ? ? ? qpntarry.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qtsciicodec.h
qfocusdata.h ? ? ? ?qpointarray.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qtstream.h
qfontdatabase.h ? ? qpoint.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurl.h
qfontdialog.h ? ? ? qpolygonscanner.h ? ? ? ?qurlinfo.h
qfont.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qpopmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qurloperator.h
qfontinf.h ? ? ? ? ?qpopupmenu.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qutfcodec.h
qfontinfo.h ? ? ? ? qprintdialog.h ? ? ? ? ? quuid.h
qfontmet.h ? ? ? ? ?qprinter.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvalidator.h
qfontmetrics.h ? ? ?qprndlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qvaluelist.h
qframe.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qprocess.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluestack.h
qftp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qprogbar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvaluevector.h
qgarray.h ? ? ? ? ? qprogdlg.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvariant.h
qgb18030codec.h ? ? qprogressbar.h ? ? ? ? ? qvbox.h
qgbkcodec.h ? ? ? ? qprogressdialog.h ? ? ? ?qvbuttongroup.h
qgcache.h ? ? ? ? ? qpsprn.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qvector.h
qgdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrcollection.h ? ? ? ? qvgroupbox.h
qgeneric.h ? ? ? ? ?qptrdict.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwaitcondition.h
qgif.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrlist.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwhatsthis.h
qglcolormap.h ? ? ? qptrqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidcoll.h
qgl.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qptrstack.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetfactory.h
qglist.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qptrvector.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidget.h
qglobal.h ? ? ? ? ? qpushbt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetintdict.h
qgplugin.h ? ? ? ? ?qpushbutton.h ? ? ? ? ? ?qwidgetlist.h
qgrid.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qqueue.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetplugin.h
qgridview.h ? ? ? ? qradiobt.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwidgetstack.h
qgroupbox.h ? ? ? ? qradiobutton.h ? ? ? ? ? qwindefs.h
qgrpbox.h ? ? ? ? ? qrangecontrol.h ? ? ? ? ?qwindowdefs.h
qguardedptr.h ? ? ? qrangect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? qwindowsstyle.h
qgvector.h ? ? ? ? ?qrect.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwinexport.h
qhbox.h ? ? ? ? ? ? qregexp.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwizard.h
qhbuttongroup.h ? ? qregion.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qwmatrix.h
qheader.h ? ? ? ? ? qrtlcodec.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qworkspace.h
qhgroupbox.h ? ? ? ?qscrbar.h ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?qxml.h
sher at Dell:/usr/share/qt3/include$

Benjamin Sher
delphi123 at zebra.net



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 22 18:58:16 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:58:16 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <h5b4j1-gik.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> ludicurous. However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
> times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
> figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
> if these figures are correct.

It will depend on what you are doing.  Every language has a sweet spot
and/or data structures that it is very efficient at.  For most, much
of the runtime library is implemented in C, and so the only difference
between the languages is how many instructions it takes to go from
the language into the C library.  There are also pathological examples
of poor performance in all languages.

The thing you should look at most is programmer productivity. Consider
the following two scenarios:

 - Product A is developed in 6 months, 6 months is spent testing etc
   and then shipped/used for 6 months.

 - Product B is developed in 18 months, with minimal testing time.

If the products are identical in function, but product A is a quarter
of the speed of product B, which would you prefer?  Don't forget that in
18 months the speed of the average computer doubles.

Even though A is slower, you will have been getting results for
more than 6 months before B is ready.

It is also a fallacy that you have to use one language.  You
can normally fairly easily run multiple languages in the same
process by embedding interpretters and/or providing extension
libraries.

The answer is pick the best tool for the job, and in most cases
programmer productivity is of great importance.  You can try and
optimise program resources (memory, cpu) early on, but it usually
isn't worth it.  You can work on them later (by coding extensions
in a lower level language), or buy more hardware with the money
and time you have saved by getting something working sooner.

Roger




From address at is.invalid  Mon Mar 15 11:09:11 2004
From: address at is.invalid (Bill)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:09:11 -0800
Subject: random.random - Interpreter works, Script doesn't?
References: <105ac9sm9lvij49@corp.supernews.com>
	<vjka50dllikgbrmnel0b55ldrsq95tsvga@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c34khj02f8g@enews2.newsguy.com>

Pay up :-) Cut and pasted from script:

import random

for i in range(10):
    x = random.random()
    print x

Other ideas? Thanks!
Bill

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:vjka50dllikgbrmnel0b55ldrsq95tsvga at 4ax.com...
> "Bill" <> wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >If I type the following code directly into the interpreter, it works. If
I
> >run it from a script, it generates the following error. Can someone help?
> >Thanks!
> >
> >------------------------
> >
> >import random
> >
> >for i in range(10):
> >    x = random.random()
> >    print x
> >
> >------------------------
> >
> >TypeError: 'module' object is not callable
>
> I'll wager money that your script actually says this:
>
>   import random
>
>   for i in range(10):
>       x = random()
>       print x
>
> ...which IS trying to call a module.
> -- 
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 20:51:17 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:51:17 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <or6sj1-8eh.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>	<mMSdnZyBVPKoW_fdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<or6sj1-8eh.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
Message-ID: <406B7595.4010002@mlug.missouri.edu>


>One thing my partner always complain about is the lack of database classes
>and navigators such as the ones available in Delphi. Specially the ones
>that allow you going forward and back in a table with the records without
>having to code that by hand. And no, ODBC isn't a good solution according
>to him due to several variations of ODBC libraries and changes between
>versions. 
>
>I don't know Delphi... 
>  
>
Python has a common DB API so you should be able to access multiple db 
types with little code changes without using ODBC. I'm sure there are 
lots of libraries available for doing common db tasks such as flipping 
through records in a table. No, they aren't tightly intergrated with 
Python but then Python isn't meant for such limited use. A lot of that 
might depend on what method you're using to access the db. It could be 
wxPython, Tkinter, web based, etc.



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Mar 18 02:18:12 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:18:12 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>
	<c3b18o$ao9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <suuni1-u55.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> > Why would you need to dynamically add exceptions? My mind
> > is beginning to boggle trying to find a use case for this.

I do it.  I have some code that talks to pySerial.  On Windows
it can throw an exception type that is part of win32all and
hence not present on other platforms.

   modeignoreerrortypes=[ commport.CommTimeout,
                          common.CommsDeviceNeedsAttention ]
   try:
       import pywintypes
       modeignoreerrortypes.append(pywintypes.error)
   except:
       pass

   # has to be tuple or it doesn't work
   modeignoreerrortypes=tuple(modeignoreerrortypes)

Later on in my code I detect a broken driver (most of the
time I am actually talking to USB to serial connections).
When that happens it starts giving dud exceptions which
I add to the above list (I only want to do it for the
broken driver, not all cases).

Roger




From klausm0762 at yahoo.de  Fri Mar  5 19:30:48 2004
From: klausm0762 at yahoo.de (Klaus Momberger)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 16:30:48 -0800
Subject: is perl better?
References: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <80a8af7d.0403051630.2b278bf0@posting.google.com>

"jon c" <jon_couchman at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> >>well the cammand is
> >>
> >>java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries
> >>application-name
> >>
> 
.....
> the error is coming from windows!
> 
> the error message is as I wrote it.
> 
> if you try and execute the command directly from bat you get the error input 
> line too long!
> 
> can perl be somehow bypassing the windows terminal and running the command 
> directly (does this make sense?)
> 
you might try to define classpath as a system environment variable and
increase the environment buffer size using the /E:nnnnn option of
command.com.
It can be set from CONFIG.SYS with an entry like: 

SHELL=C:/WINNT/SYTEM32/command.com C:\ /P /E:4096 

or larger than 4096 in your case. 

Maybe this helps, 

-klaus


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 11:40:32 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:40:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
Message-ID: <20040314164032.924.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>

In terms of file input, can we read from the end of
the file till the beginning of a file?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 08:41:35 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:41:35 -0500
Subject: DispatchWithEvents when have internal COM interfaces
In-Reply-To: <9f115c52.0403100047.7b060047@posting.google.com>
References: <9f115c52.0403090254.3ec6c567@posting.google.com>
	<9f115c52.0403100047.7b060047@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kWE3c.37094$lT6.132604@news20.bellglobal.com>

gloom wrote:
> Well, problem solved.
> 
> After:
> cd = nero.GetDrives(NERO_MEDIA_CD)[0]
> 
> I can do:
> WithEvents(cd, DriveEvents)
> 
> and it works.
> 
> The question is, can I do it without WithEvents, but with
> DispatchWithEvents() somehow, so I can refer to self?
> 
> Good day,
> Omer.

Wish I could help - but I am also stuck with some COM stuff.  Please 
keep us posted as you figure out more...

Markus.


From denginere at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 11:46:20 2004
From: denginere at hotmail.com (denginere)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 08:46:20 -0800
Subject: odd behaviour with embedded python and omniorb
Message-ID: <6c5f2ab0.0403250846.6e773bb0@posting.google.com>

I have a situation where I am embedding python in c++ and
calling omniorb within python.

c++ -> python -> c++ -> python

The python is called using the following
    // Import the module/script
    pTmpModule = PyImport_Import(pName);
    PyObject_CallObject(pFunc, pArgs);

If we call python once it's fine
If we call python a second time (as above) it fine *mostly*

However if we call python a second time, *and* import omniORB
the PyImport_Import fails!

Any thoughts appreciated


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 18 14:14:01 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:14:01 +0000
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <knrj5058a56ke0vk4ht0n2n4murvdqhtug@4ax.com>

On 18 Mar 2004 09:43:19 -0800, sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu
(Jason) wrote:

>Hey,
>
>I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
>implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
>(1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
>REALLY slow.

My impression is that you should avoid the Point class. It's a pretty
trivial class, but each time it is instantiated or an instance
destroyed you get some overhead. Do that enough times and you get
speed issues. If you can live with tuples and non-member functions,
that may be some help.

Also, for the picture data itself, possibly you should look at the
numarray library. I haven't used it myself, but I suspect that it will
have lower overheads than a standard Python list.

http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/


You also seem to be doing too much avoidable work in your inner loop.
For instance, you could swap your x and y loops, and calculate things
like y*self.data.size[0] once per row (rather than for every single
pixel). I imagine there are also aspects of the transform calculation
that could be done once per row to save time, though I haven't looked
that closely at what you are doing.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From reed at rainier.reedmedia.net  Fri Mar 19 14:06:50 2004
From: reed at rainier.reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:06:50 -0600
Subject: The python bindings for gconf (gnome-python2-gconf) could not
	be found.
References: <6vKdnQ0Jt_dnNsXdRVn-sA@whidbeytel.com>
Message-ID: <rJKdnbDSX7hX2cbdRVn-uQ@whidbeytel.com>

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "gconf.test.python", line 16, in ?
>     import gnome.gconf
> ImportError: No module named gconf

Just a followup for the archives. This issue was resolved.

The problem was caused by a conflict with my ORBit2:
"undefined symbol: ORBit_c_stub_invoke".

I saw that by commenting out the gconf test in the configure
script and running gramps.

I reinstalled ORBit2 and related and the gnome-python2-gconf
worked for gramps.

I wish that the strace of "import gnome.gconf" would have
shown this. (Later, I learned that maybe ltrace would have helped.)

Jeremy C. Reed
http://bsd.reedmedia.net/


From python at quixs.com  Wed Mar 31 08:44:09 2004
From: python at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:44:09 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <983275464.20040331154409@quixs.com>

Hi Andrew,

> best are Mozilla and Abiword.  There was once a Python binding for
> Mozilla's widget library XUL but I don't don't what's happended to
> that.  Anone know if this is relevant to our discussion of cross
> platform GUI's?

I think, Mozilla is relevant for x-platform GUIs
There is an interesting project (but wrong licence, in IMO), called
MozPython, which embeds Python into Mozilla.
http://www.thomas-schilz.de/MozPython/README.html

pyXPCOM is still alive, but I think, the lack of pyXPCOM documentation
is a problem here.
ActiveState's Komodo is build with Mozilla and pyXPCOM
http://www.thomas-schilz.de/MozPython/README.html

Another problem of Mozilla / XUL is, that you've to switch between
your programming languages: JavaScript for XUL and your favorite
programming language in the back. If your favorite programming lang
is JavaScript, you don't have to switch, of course. ;)

If someone is interested in Mozilla as platform, than the following
sources might be helpful:

XUL / XPCOM
http://www.xulplanet.com/
http://www.xulplanet.com/forum/

ActiveState's site abt. pyXPCOM
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/Komodo/PyXPCOM/

http://pyxpcom.mozdev.org/ (outdated / dead?)

IBM dW serie about pyXPCOM
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/components/library/co-pyxp1.html
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/components/library/co-pyxp2.html
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/components/library/co-pyxp3/

Best regards,
Lars




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Mar  2 14:46:07 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:46:07 -0500
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>
	<4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <xv51c.8749$qA2.552179@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Alex" <alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
[snip]
> so in my code:
> for x in range(nbSujets):
>   self.button1 = xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30, "B"+str(x) )
>   self.addControl(self.button1)

for x in range(nbSujets):
    button_name = "button%d"%x
    setattr(self, button_name, xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30,
"B%d"%x ))
    self.addControl(getattr(self, button_name))






From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 19:24:34 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:24:34 GMT
Subject: Special symbols again (was Re: The problem with "as") 
References: <Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<slrnc630qv.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<7n34609f4t6uueb79aia3km2pm68orh0u6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6480p.4lj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <7n34609f4t6uueb79aia3km2pm68orh0u6 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg wrote:
>>I'm not clear on what you mean by "modified syntax".  If it's accepted
>>into the language, it's a standard syntax, so marking it with a symbol
>>makes no sense.  If you mean to mark things for preprocessors, sure, a
>>standard symbol would be a great idea, but we're not talking about
>>preprocessors here.
> 
> By "modified syntax" I mean an extension of the current standard
> syntax, e.g. the "decorators" we are now considering adding to the
> current standard function definition syntax, or the extra "arguments"
> we were discussing for the print statement.

Why is the current standard priveleged?  A few years down the road, half
of the basic functionality of the language will have special symbols in
front of it, just because it was proposed after an arbitrary date.  The
symbol wouldn't tell anything about the features it's attached to except
the relatively uninteresting fact of when they were added to the
language.

The only use I can see for such information is to mark features which
require a recent interpreter, and a single otherwise meaningless symbol
is a particulary ugly way to do it.

>>If you mean marking some bits of the language as being second-class,
>>absolutely not.
> 
> "Second class" has negative connotations.  A better description would

Yes, I used it deliberately.  Singling out syntax as non-basic makes it
second class.  What if you predict wrong?  What if it catches on like
wildfire and gets taught in Day 2 of every class?  Now your symbol has
no meaning at all, because it's part of what everybody considers basic.

> There is a similarity here in the use of comment characters to tell
> Python - "Ignore this.  It is for an external tool." - but the
> difference here is we are not talking not about external tools with
> their own command syntax.  In a sense, we are "adding tools" to the

If we're not, then I think it's an idea with almost no value at all.

> language by extending its syntax, so maybe the analogy to commented
> commands has some value.  Certainly, we wouldn't tolerate a variety of
> comment characters depending on which external tool the command was
> for.

No, but we might tolerate a comment character followed by a tag whose
first item was the tool identifier.  But like you said, different
debate.

> Consider the print statement, recently discussed in this forum (Paul
> Prescod 3/7/2004).  We can't say

Yep, I recall you bringing this up at the time and not convincing
anybody.

> The key design goal is to *mimimize* the number of syntactic
> variations we have to introduce as we extend the language.  The
> proposed @() syntax seems like it would work in *many* places, and it
> always has the same general meaning -- "This is a modification of the
> basic syntax you already understand."  To learn the details of a

That's a meaning that's too general to be of any use.  If the new syntax
is successful, it's no longer a modification, it's a basic syntax now,
so now @ means "this is either new, or not".

> particular variation, you read the manual on the particular statement
> where the variation occurs.  @(staticmethod) - read about it under
> "def".  print @(...) - read the manual on 'print'.

People will recognize things they don't understand without an @ sign, by
virtue of not knowing what they are.  @(staticmethod) won't tell me to
look under def any more than [staticmethod] will, and if I see something  
I don't recognize near a print statement, I'll already know to read the
manual on 'print'.

BTW, I favour making the decorators a single name, list or tuple, so you
can say any of the following:

    def foo() staticmethod:
        pass
    def foo() [staticmethod]:
        pass
    def foo() (staticmethod,):
        pass
    def foo() staticmethod,:
        pass

Feels cleaner in the sense that no new constructs are being added, you
can just put an existing one in a place it wasn't allowed before.
That's true even if the actual tuple, as an optimization, isn't created.
I dunno if this'd make it much harder to parse, though.  (I also like a
keyword, but I'm not hugely attached either way.)

Joe


From peterstrempel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 02:46:02 2004
From: peterstrempel at yahoo.com (Peter Strempel)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 07:46:02 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c4b8jp$2h8s1t$1@ID-66900.news.uni-berlin.de>

Greg Krohn wrote:

> On my machine (WinXP Pro, AMD 2400, 512MB) it takes a little over three 
> seconds before the splash shows and maybe another two seconds for the 
> main frame to show. It takes a little over a second to load IDLE.

Roughly the same here: 2-3 seconds for the Demo and my own wxPython app to
start on a Mac G5. Around 3 seconds on my Pentium II 333 MHz with Linux and
Win2000 as well - you don't need a GHz CPU to create a window with Python.
The only limitation I can think of is limited memory so the OS needs to swap
to free some space first. CPU speed is not a serious factor.


I personally consider wxPython the best choice for a Python GUI. Tkinter
apps look too alien to the common Windows enduser. Of course that depends on
the target audience and might be an issue or not.

  Peter


From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Sat Mar  6 13:49:51 2004
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:49:51 +0100
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <l67k40tl95birj87d522v8bncltuq3gmjt@4ax.com>

Brett:
>What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
>'goto' command?

While we're on the subject, is there any way to simulate the 'comefrom'
statement?
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~hj05/stuff/comefrom.htm

-- 
Ren? Pijlman


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 26 17:35:59 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:35:59 -0800
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument
In-Reply-To: <g2J8c.3479$GH3.2493@fed1read07>
References: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07> <g2J8c.3479$GH3.2493@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <c42bed$hgc$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> import inspect
> 
> def functionname( modname ):
> 	exec("import "+modname)
> 	s = inspect.getsource( modname )
> 	return s
> 
> How do I cast modname as a module name and not as a string?

Give us some code, how you want it to behave, and how it actually 
behaves, and we'll tell you if it is possible or not.  In general, what 
you are asking for does not seem possible.  Strings are strings.  Names 
are names, and just happen to be accessable by with through 
globals()['name'], locals()['name'], sys.modules['name'], etc.

If you have a string, and you want to get to a previously imported 
module, use:

 >>> import sys
 >>> module = sys.modules['os']
 >>> module
<module 'os' from 'f:\apps\python23\lib\os.pyc'>

If you need to import the module (because it hasn't been yet), as 
already mentioned:

 >>> module = __import__('os')
 >>> module
<module 'os' from 'f:\apps\python23\lib\os.pyc'>


In general, stay away from exec(), eval(), etc.  They are a security 
hole waiting to happen:

functionname('os;os.removedirs("c:\\windows")')


  - Josiah


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Mar 11 09:09:47 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:09:47 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>Part of tribal lore--a true,
>documented part, by the way--is that Big Cheese Guido depre-
>cates lambdas.  He says they're a mistake, and people shouldn't
>be using 'em.  

Interesting!  I had assumed lambdas to be a necessity.  I rarely
used them until I learned Scheme, but I didn't realize there was
a clean alternative.

>Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named
>function; 

How do you cleanly do that?
	foo = range(-10, 10)
	my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
	bar = map(my_op, foo)

--kyler


From j_mckitrick at bigfoot.com  Wed Mar 31 09:44:13 2004
From: j_mckitrick at bigfoot.com (j_mckitrick)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 06:44:13 -0800
Subject: Looking for example of brilliant python code showing off its
	features
Message-ID: <ec6dce8b.0403310644.601a8a7b@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I am in the process of learning python and writing a fun little app to
keep financial records.

I'd like pointed to an example of some python code that just really
shows off what it can do.  I'd rather it focus on language features
than just library functions, but anything is really OK.

So does anyone have or know of any amazing python code I can check
out?

jonathon


From bob at redivi.com  Mon Mar  1 07:17:28 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:17:28 -0500
Subject: Image width, height.
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2004030107172838165%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-01 06:38:11 -0500, Premshree Pillai 
<premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> said:

> Hello,
> 
> Is there a Py module available using which I can find
> the width and height of any image format?

ANY image format is a tall order, however PIL is pretty good at it, and 
supports a large number of image formats.

>>> import Image
>>> Image.open('testorig.jpg').size
(227, 149)

Note that even if you don't have a JPEG decoder available, PIL bakes in 
enough support for the format to let you get the image dimensions out 
of the header.  I'd imagine that this is generally true with the rest 
of PIL, too.

-bob



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 30 16:11:42 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:11:42 -0600
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20040330211142.GD29710@unpythonic.net>

If your system has isnan() then you could use a small pyrex module to
expose these functions to Python:
    cdef extern from "math.h":
        int finite_ "finite" (double value)
        int isinf_ "isinf"(double value)
        int isnan_ "isnan"(double value)

    def finite(double x):
        return finite_(x)
    def isinf(double x):
        return isinf_(x)
    def isnan(double x):
        return isnan_(x)
note that isinf/isnan/finite are not part of the ISO C or POSIX specs,
according to my manpage.  Your system may have a different, also
non-portable way of finding NaN values.

Jeff
PS pyrex is at http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/



From geospack at erols.com  Mon Mar 15 14:18:25 2004
From: geospack at erols.com (geospack at erols.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:18:25 -0500
Subject: Thanks!
Message-ID: <E1B2xbV-0008Vd-Ea@mail.python.org>

See the attached file for details.
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From kevino at tulane.edu  Fri Mar 19 13:26:05 2004
From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:26:05 -0800
Subject: ftplib - uploading files using transfercmd?
References: <ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h@4ax.com>
	<9396ba6f.0403190624.1b69ac0b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <l7em50hj7lqjoshtuh9jte8no7uj9jirah@4ax.com>

On 19 Mar 2004 06:24:13 -0800, stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart
Midwinter) wrote:

>Kevin Ollivier <kevino at tulane.edu> wrote in message news:<ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h at 4ax.com>...
>> The first file uploads just fine, but on the second file I'm
>> consistently seeing a weird problem where the response to the PORT
>> command (sent by self.makeport()) comes *after* the STOR command is
>> sent. 
>
>Kevin, when you make a socket connection to the server, are you used
>blocking or non-blocking?   A blocking connection won't proceed until
>it gets a response, while the non-blocking will - and perhaps your
>problem lies there.  your 2nd command gets a response before the first
>one comes back.

I am using whatever method ftplib uses by default, in other words, I
do not explicitly set the socket as blocking or non-blocking. 

After reading your reply (and the other I received), I tried
explicitly calling setblocking(1) on both the FTP socket (ftp.sock)
and the socket that is returned when I call transfercmd. However, the
PORT call's response still comes after the STOR command. (As far as I
could tell, setting blocking mode seemed to do nothing.)

>Does indeed your problem only happen at the beginning, or can it
>happen anywhere in your list of files?

It does always happen at the beginning, even when uploading to
different servers. But since I cannot get it to upload more than the
first file, I do not know if it would happen at other points in the
upload. 

Thanks for your help!

Kevin


From ark at acm.org  Mon Mar 29 12:54:37 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:54:37 GMT
Subject: No built-in swap function?
References: <eOY9c.34271$tY6.1012774@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<ad1zeebc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <xpZ9c.34394$tY6.1016188@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:ad1zeebc.fsf at pobox.com...

> It seems an odd question in one way: Saying that it evaluates v[i] and
> v[j] twice may be true, but ignores the fact that v[a] is quite
> different from v[a] = b -- one does a lookup (whether it be a dict
> lookup, list indexing operation, or whatever), and the other is an
> assignment (whether setting a dict key/val pair, setting a list item,
> etc).

Of course.  Nevertheless there are some operations in common, especially if
you're trying to do something like

    v[i], v[i+j] = v[i+j], v[i]

> I admit I don't like the repetition of v[i] and v[j], though of course
> that can be solved by writing a function.  I suppose a function is
> best here, not a method, because you might want to apply it to any
> sequence.

Perhaps.  Obviously, I can write

    def swap(v, i, j):
        v[i], v[j] = v[j], v[i]

and then my example above becomes

    swap(v, i, i+j)

However, if swap were a builtin, I think I'd expect it to be a method
because that way, it would be easier for the function to depend on the type
of v.

Anyway, it's no big deal; I just want to be sure I wasn't missing something
that's already there.




From jbronson at wixb.com  Wed Mar  3 09:11:24 2004
From: jbronson at wixb.com (J.D. Bronson)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:11:24 -0600
Subject: 2.3.3 on Solaris 10
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040303081007.00a8f558@localhost>

I am having trouble compiling python (from src) on Solaris 10 beta and was 
wondering if someone can help me?

./configure (no options)
all looks good
then I run make:

gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. 
-I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Objects/cobject.o Objects/cobject.c
gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. 
-I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Objects/complexobject.o Objects/complexobject.c
Objects/complexobject.c: In function `complex_pow':
Objects/complexobject.c:469: error: invalid operands to binary ==
Objects/complexobject.c:469: error: wrong type argument to unary minus
Objects/complexobject.c:469: error: invalid operands to binary ==
Objects/complexobject.c:469: error: wrong type argument to unary minus
make: *** [Objects/complexobject.o] Error 1


and it fails.

Any ideas?




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 17:17:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:17:17 -0500
Subject: use  -> instead of lambda??
In-Reply-To: <8fe46d4f.0403121207.30dd56d3@posting.google.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<8fe46d4f.0403121207.30dd56d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0Iq4c.2774$G3.22476@localhost>

Bas wrote:
> Couldn't we use -> instead??

We could use %--*(): and it still wouldn't be any better.  Just because 
the characters are all used elsewhere is no advantage.  It's still ugly, 
meaningless punctuation that makes the code less readable.

-Peter


From pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 03:07:08 2004
From: pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com (o'seally)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 00:07:08 -0800
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
	<4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <86b5da9a.0403180007.1cd92b2@posting.google.com>

i checked my original posting again. the word 'python' appears a
couple of times in it, so python is indeed being referred to. read my
original posting slowly/carefully again, you'll see it.


From tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de  Sat Mar 27 13:55:42 2004
From: tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de (Tassilo v. Parseval)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 18:55:42 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<106alaf403jgs54@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c44ine$ad6$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Also sprach Cameron Laird:

> I generally favor Python over Perl; in the absence of
> more details, I think there's mild evidence that those
> who don't specialize in programming are happier over the
> long term with the readability of the former.  They're
> very close, though.  The one most certain advantage 
> Python boasts is a dimension that I'd think important
> to you, although you haven't mentioned it:  Python's
> interfaces to C++ are MUCH easier to manage than Perl's.
> Perl6 will change this.  For now, though, it's FAR 
> easier to practice "dual-level programming" with Python
> and C++.  If you have a large existing library of C++
> work, I think that tips the balance toward Python.
> Understand, SWIG and other alternatives make Perl-to-C++
> links possible; with Python's facilities, though,
> including Pyrex, they're *fun*.

When it comes to embedding C/C++ into Perl, SWIG is the last thing that
I'd recommend. It may be capable of transforming such a library into a
Perl module on its own with no user intervention. However, C/C++ doesn't
map particularly well onto Perl from an interface point-of-view: A 1:1
translation of a C++ API doesn't look particularly good.

Those things should be done manually. How much work this is depends on
the library. Some only require a few lines of XS. XS' learning curve is
admittedly a bit steep. Not because it is difficult in itself but rather
because the documentation leaves a few things to be desired. There are
some actions on completing perlxstut.pod on its way right now, though.

There is also Inline::CPP, although I don't think it is as mature as
Inline::C. And since you have mentioned Tcl, even that can be inlined
with the help of Inline::Tcl.

Tassilo
-- 
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 01:54:10 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:54:10 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>


> I was 15 when I got my first computer, a 4k TRS-80 Model I with Level I
> BASIC, cassette tape for storage. It was several years before I could afford
> a system with a floppy drive, let alone a hard drive.. I spent nearly all my
> free time for months teaching myself BASIC programing, mostly trial and
> error. The book that came with my Model I was a great introduction to
> programming.
> 
> My 13 year old niece wants to learn programming. What's the best
> introductory language for her?

Really, depending on what you want to teach her (programming is fun vs. 
programming can be a pain in the ass), that should define which language 
you should send her off to learn.

1. Teach her Scheme for a couple months to get her mind around the idea 
of recursion (very beneficial to all new programmers).
2. Spend a couple months teaching her C so that she gets the feeling for 
a statically typed system and dealing with pointers.
3. Spend a month teaching her object orientation with C++.
4. If you feel up for it (I wouldn't be), spend a couple weeks on Java.
5. Once she's feeling good with the ideas behind programming, spend an 
afternoon teaching her Python, and give her a week to convert everything 
she ever did to Python.
6. Reap the rewards of a Python convert.

  - Josiah


From k.robert at gmx.de  Tue Mar 23 08:33:19 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:33:19 +0100
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
Message-ID: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>

I have python related stuff on some of my web pages.

This month  "The Python Robot" is going for over 400 MB / 4000 accesses
downloads in my stats ! increasing frequency the last months!? thats 25x
more than Google Bot & Inktomi Slurp - the second loquacious.

These numbers a going to cause substantial server cost. Why does "The Python
Robot" need to scan my pages 20 times a day? How can I cool down this
special bot a little bit ( robots.txt ? )

Robert




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Mar 31 10:51:58 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:51:58 GMT
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>	<66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.86.1080611520.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<66a61715.0403300657.61323b0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ea19805001359792a4e52ab984a1e8c@news.teranews.com>

On 30 Mar 2004 06:57:16 -0800, bucknuggets at yahoo.com (Buck Nuggets)
wrote:

>Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.86.1080611520.20120.python-list at python.org>...
>> Buck Nuggets wrote:
>> 
>> > "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list at python.org>...
>> > 
>> > In case you are interested in alternatives approaches...here's how I
>> > typically do this:
>> > 
>> > step 1: sort the file using a separate sort utility (unix sort, cygwin
>> > sort, etc)
>> > 
>> > step 2: have a python program read in rows, 
>> >         compare each row to the prior,
>> >         write out only one row for each set
>> 
>> Good solution, but wayyyy too much effort.
>> You probably know it:
>> If you are seeking for duplicates, and doing it by
>> complete ordering, then you are thwowing lots of information
>> away, since you are not seeking for neighborship, right?
>> That clearly means: it must be inefficient.
>> 
>> No offense, just trying to get you on the right track!
>
>Ha, that's ok.  I've been doing exactly this kind of thing for over
>twenty years (crusty old database developer).  I think that you will
>find that it is more efficient in both development and run time.  And
>it's simple enough that once you start down this path you won't need
>to brainstorm on how to get it to work.
>
>Rather than taking 2-18 hours with the previously mentioned solutions
>(which require index-building and 10 million index lookups), you'll
>probably do the entire thing in about 10 minutes (9 minutes to sort
>file + 1 minute to check dups).
>From a crusty old unix developer to a crusty old database developer...
Part 2 can be done by piping the output of sort to the 'uniq' program
(available in cygwin and mingw also, I think).

And it's no effort, if it fits the bill.  It may be inneficient with 
regards to sorting algorithms, but extremely efficient in terms of
system and developer resources.

    --dang


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 02:53:34 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 07:53:34 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>

Just wanted to add another example of stuff that
I encounter alot of.  As in many computer languages,
various kinds of scopes are delineated by things
like braces or begin/end statements.  I often find
it valuable to find an occurance of certain things
(e.g. certain data declaration) within certain
scope structures.  Sed is convenient for that:

	/SomeStartPattern/,/SomeEndPattern/{
		Do some stuff,
		including conditional branching
	}

To avoid the hassle of writing a script file and
filtering the input source file to an output source
file, I often use gvim's awesome pattern matching
and macro recording abilities.  A sed script file
can look pretty cryptic, especially when I want
to search across physical lines (lots of conditional
flow to append things to the hold buffer, etc..).
For that reason, I tend to stay with quick/dirty
practices in gvim.  Crypticness (though not of the
same variety) is one of the things that I found
hard about ramping up on Perl, to the degree that
I did.  As I hinted earlier, a fair comparison would
account for the fact that its power would be more 
apparent if I became adequately guru-like, but
realistically, I will not spend enough time with
it on a regular basis to expect that.  Here again
is a dichotomy; I appreciate the sed terseness because
I can make a command line pipe stage out of it, but
the same brevity in a scripting language can make for
rough going.  Maybe it's wishful thinking to expect
one language to cover all the bases that I initially
mentioned.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From amk at amk.ca  Sun Mar  7 11:25:47 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:25:47 -0600
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
References: <mailman.85.1078631357.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AtWdnQfh4-eW0NbdRVn-jw@speakeasy.net>

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:48:47 +0100 (CET), 
> info = { "filename": "apa.txt", "fileid": "10001" }
> the_url = '<a href="download.py/%(filename)s?id=%(fileid)s">%(filename)s</a>'%info

Another approach is to include a Content-Disposition header in the 
response that suggests a filename, something like this:

Content-Disposition: inline; filename="paid-for-download.zip"

Most browsers will then suggest paid-for-download.zip as the filename, no
matter what form the download URL takes.  See RFC2183 for the details of
this header.

--amk



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Tue Mar 16 13:59:07 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:59:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek at lxplus057.cern.ch> wrote:
...
> As I keep saying, weak typing is a wishy-washy concept, and your
> working definition has a lot of merit. Could you cite anything that
> uses your definition? (I'm not asking for these to argue with you, but
> to have something to cite in situations when I might want to back up
> your working definition.)

I'm having trouble finding references here.  Right now the best I can
do is

  http://www.haskell.org/aboutHaskell.html

specifically

  3. No core dumps

  Most functional languages, and Haskell in particular, are strongly
  typed, eliminating a huge class of easy-to-make errors at compile
  time. In particular, strong typing means no core dumps! There is
  simply no possibility of treating an integer as a pointer, or
  following a null pointer.

which implies "weak typing" means there's the possibility of treating
a piece of data as the wrong type.

The FOLDOC definition

  http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=weak+typing

which mentions things like

  int a = 5;
  float b = a;

to me doesn't have anything to do with weak typing, since the int is
correctly converted to a float.  I guess thay're calling it "weak
typing" because the cast is implicit.

So there are more definitions out there (and more confusion) than we
need.


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 01:07:11 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:07:11 -0800
Subject: PyPerl 1.0.1 [requires Visual Studio compiler?]
In-Reply-To: <20040329215503.1365541070.eric@zomething.com>
References: <20040329215503.1365541070.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <40690E8F.3040005@mlug.missouri.edu>


>It seems like this is the second time I have come across this with a Python module, and I'd like to get some perspective on it.
>
>I tried to build PyPerl (on my Win XP machine) and got the following:
>
>    Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
>    (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
>
>    C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pyperl-1.0.1>setup.py install
>
>    running install
>    running build
>    running build_py
>    creating build
>    creating build\lib.win32-2.3
>    copying dbi.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
>    copying dbi2.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
>    copying perlpickle.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
>    copying perlmod.py -> build\lib.win32-2.3
>    running build_ext
>    error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and extensions need to
>    be built with the same version of the compiler, but it isn't installed.
>
>As I'm a just poor boy with a dog, I do not own or use Visual Studio (as nice as it may be).  I do have/use the mingw 2.95.2-1 C++ compiler (in case of an emergency or if my life gets too simple).
>
>Is it possible to build this module with what I have?  Should I expect to need Visual Studio from time to time for building Python modules which dive into C++?  Am I totally off track here?  Is this just what I get for not absorbing some readme file?
>  
>
Why not just recompile Python with the compiler you do have? Might look 
at installing Cygwin and see if it's version of Python works better for 
you or if it's version of gcc can compile Python okay.



From ch3m4 at ch3m4.org  Mon Mar  1 10:32:37 2004
From: ch3m4 at ch3m4.org (Chema Cortes)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:32:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<16451.20340.53654.699810@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20040301T161848-569@post.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro <skip <at> pobox.com> writes:

> Many people use triple-quoted strings for this:
> 
>     """
>     i=1
>     i+=1
>     print i
>     print i+1
>     """
> 
> It's not a comment, strictly speaking, however it generally achieves the
> desired results.

But as colateral effect it will be interpreted like a doc string. It's better to
make it as a tuple:

     ("""
     i=1
     i+=1
     print i
     print i+1
     """)

or, like a hybrid:

     if 0:"""
     i=1
     i+=1
     print i
     print i+1
     """





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  9 18:35:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:35:48 +0100
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2lkck$vg3$01$1@news.t-online.com>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi
> I want to sort a list.
> My problem is:
> 
>>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
>>>> a.sort()
>>>> a
> ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
> 
> 
> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']
> 
> Is there any module to sort a list this way?

Assuming you want to sort ascii alphabetically with uppercase before
lowercase:

>>> a = list('afFAD')
>>> def icmp(s, t):
...     return cmp(s.lower(), t.lower()) or cmp(s, t)
...
>>> a.sort(icmp)
>>> a
['A', 'a', 'D', 'F', 'f']
>>>

Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 10:45:45 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:45:45 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <du7lllqfkce.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.333.1080132076.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqfkce.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <16481.44329.95384.135368@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Ville> The dispatcher obviously needs a reference to a module global
    Ville> dict object of some sort, with some magical name like
    Ville> '__mm_dispatcher_registry'.

More cleanly, multimethod is a callable instance.

Skip



From thehaas at binary.net  Thu Mar 18 14:10:08 2004
From: thehaas at binary.net (thehaas at binary.net)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:10:08 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
References: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
	<c3cncg$gar$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <kum6c.29690$wg.18274@okepread01>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> thehaas at binary.net wrote:
> > Obviously, 'Gr??'!='Gr\xfc\xdf' .  

> It is not at all obvious that they are different. In fact, they
> are the same, assuming the second string is encoding in Latin-1.

> > Any ideas on how I can get the correct value?

> Pray tell: what is the correct value?

The correct value is 'Gr??', or at least have it equal to that.

Maybe I should back up -- I'm interfacing into a Windows API.  In that API, I see 'Gr??' as:
  >>> plist[-1].Reference
  u'Gr\xfc\xdf'

My value in goodProcList is:
  >>> goodProcRef[18]
  'Gr\xfc\xdf'

(yeah, goodProcList isn't in Unicode -- that's probably the cause of all this)

When I test their equality:

>>> goodProcRef[18] == plist[-1].Reference
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 2: ordinal
not in range(128)

If I try to manually encode goodProcRef[18], I get the same thing:

    >>> goodProcRef[18].encode('utf-8')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 2: ordinal not in range(128)

-- 
Mike Hostetler          
thehaas at binary.net 
http://www.binary.net/thehaas 


From cbrown at metservice.com  Sun Mar 14 17:38:07 2004
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:38:07 +1300
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz><mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list@python.org><4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
	<mailman.10.1079299930.682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4054dd4a$1@news.iconz.co.nz>


"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.10.1079299930.682.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 08:43:51AM +1300, Colin Brown wrote:
> > "Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list at python.org...
> +       The behavior when secs is less than zero is undefined.  In
particular,
> +       a future version of Python may interpret 'time.sleep(-1); other
code'
> +       to cause 'other code' to execute beginning one second before the
call
> +       to time.sleep.

I do not think this is taking it far enough, why not support a complex
number argument, you should be able to do something interesting with that!

Thanks
Colin




From mickel at csc.fi  Fri Mar  5 09:32:14 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:32:14 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Dispatching and controlling Windows Media Player
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403051623130.32288@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi!

I want to be able to dispatch and control Windows Media Player from my
Python application.

As a newbie to COM programming, I can't even seem to get the Windows Media
Player dispatched. (I follow the examples in Mark Hammonds Python
Programming on Win32.) I use Dispatch() from win32com.client, but I do not
know which parameter to use to get the media player up and running.

Basically this is a vague cry for help: Does anybody have any sample code
or other experience on using Windows Media Player from Python? That would
be of great help and get me started.

Thanks in advance,

Mickel Gr?nroos
--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Mar 15 19:45:00 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:45:00 -0300
Subject: Tkinter3000
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338373C@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

#- 
#- > Also, at one point there was going to be an O'Reilly book on
#- > Tkinter, did that die?
#- 
#- yes.
#- 

What a pitty. Is there some project to document Tkinter?

Thanks!

.	Facundo



From avikghose at yahoo.co.in  Fri Mar 19 09:14:39 2004
From: avikghose at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Avik=20Ghose?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:14:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: running TCL from python
In-Reply-To: <105jo9fhigq3q49@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040319141439.10444.qmail@web8301.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Thanks a lot!

Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> wrote:In article ,
Avik Ghose wrote:
.
.
.
>How can I run a TCL script from within my python code?
.
.
.
There are several ways. Perhaps it's time to enumerate them in a
Wikified essay ... In any case, I'll wildly speculate that this 
is the one that best models your situation:

import Tkinter

tcl_script = 'puts "The sum of 2 and 3 is [expr 2 + 3]."'
Tkinter.Tk().tk.eval(tcl_script)
-- 

Cameron Laird 
Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Thanks and regards,
Avik Ghose
Yahoo! India Promos:  Win a trip for 2 to Britain. Click here.
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From listas at grahal.net  Tue Mar 23 23:10:55 2004
From: listas at grahal.net (Gustavo Rahal)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:55 -0300
Subject: Accessing MS-Access DB from Linux
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.21.20.15.24.646553@librelogiciel.com>
References: <mailman.211.1079886124.742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.03.21.20.15.24.646553@librelogiciel.com>
Message-ID: <40610A4F.8090705@grahal.net>

Jerome Alet wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:21:54 -0300, Gustavo Rahal wrote:
>
>  
>
>>How can I access a MS-Access DB from a linux machine?
>>    
>>
>
>
>I'd suggest you try mxODBC, available from egenix.com
>
>bye
>
>Jerome Alet
>  
>
I got the packages from egenix.com but i'm getting errors when trying to 
install them. The egenix-mx-base-2.0.5-py2.2_1.i386.rpm installed ok but 
the egenix-mx-commercial-2.0.6-py2.2_1.i386.rpm had a dependency with 
libiodbc.so.2. I did a rpm search and found out that this file belongs 
to the libiodbc-3.51.2-1.i386-rh9.rpm package. I installed this package 
but I still get the dependecy problem. Any idea? I'm using fedora core 1

Gustavo




From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Mar 11 14:22:56 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:22:56 -0600
Subject: wrestling with unittest paths..needs suggestions
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85073DBFC7@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

In my enthusiasm of separating my unittests from my business logic modules, I encounter some problems in my path setting. Can solve them, but so ugly. Needs suggestions in the right way to do it.


This is my problem.
path to main class... say: 

path = /home/workspace/src/foo
There is a module Foo.py
/home/workspace/src/foo/Foo.py

My unittest is in:
/home/workspace/src/test/foo
so:
/home/workspace/src/test/foo/FooTest.py

Now, in order to test Foo in FooTest, I added the path to Foo.py in FooTest:

	### FooTest.py ###
import os, sys
testpath = os.path.abspath('/home/workspace/src/foo')
sys.path.append(testpath)

Well, it works but if I have to do that for every test module that I write.. 
Very nasty..

Also, if I would like to write an AllTests.py in /home/python/test/, the solutions of finding the paths to my business logic should still work of course.

So I tried to look around for better solutions, like the use of __init__.py but just can't get it to work without the ugly path setting in my unittest module.

My hope is that someone here can tell me what THE correct solution is here.

Thanks in advance,
Vincent



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 21:46:58 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:46:58 -0800
Subject: Any known bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
 deck?
In-Reply-To: <wz8yi117l9.fsf@Ordesa.local>
References: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>
	<c35frm$nar$1@news.service.uci.edu> <wz8yi117l9.fsf@Ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <c3b2on$cds$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>>Does anyone know of a bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
>>>deck? I'm planning to create a new cardgame which requires this kind of
>>>deck (prototyping in Python and possible final development in Delphi;
>>>flames about my tool choices will be gently dropped into the bit bucket)
>>>I'd be very thankful about any information regarding this matter.
> 
> 
> JC> Aside from you using Python to prototype the initial "new cardgame", images
> JC> of Spanish playing cards are very off-topic.
> 
> JC> Search at google.com for the three terms: spanish playing cards
> JC> The second link will be for a site that sells decks of cards for $3.50 +
> JC> shipping each.  Scan them.  That is how I would get images of Spanish
> JC> playing cards.
> 
> And you would have a copyright problem.

I wouldn't worry about it until I needed to release it.  By then, I'd 
hopefully have some unemcumbered-by-copyright images.  Then again, I 
don't need such images, so it is all just speculation.

  - Josiah


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Mar 25 15:46:41 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:46:41 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<bUm8c.123261$Wa.101889@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<tyf8yhphpr9.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <RyH8c.124509$Wa.108018@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Jacek Generowicz:
> Do you have a reference describing such an attempt?

   It was mentioned in Dr Dobbs, July 1996, page 87 although I also heard
about this from a colleague that worked with someone ...
   Googling for "zero defect development", looks like the Dr Dobbs piece
requires an account
http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=959/ddj9607j/

   Neil




From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar 11 15:49:56 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:49:56 +0100
Subject: subclassing list and adding other variables ?
Message-ID: <4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

hello,

i wonder if this possible to subclass a list or a tuple and add more
attributes ? also does someone have a link to how well define is own
iterable object ?

what i was expecting was something like :

>>> t = Test('anAttributeValue', ['el1', 'el2'])
>>> t.anAttribute
'anAttributeValue'
>>> for x in t:
       print x
el1
el2

and below are some real unsuccessful tests :

>>> class Test(tuple):
 def __init__(self, a, alist):
  self.a = a
  self = tuple(alist)


>>> t = Test(1, (1,2,3))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#486>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    t = Test(1, (1,2,3))
TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
>>> class Test(tuple):
 def __init__(self, (a, alist)):
  self.a = a
  self = tuple(alist)


>>> t = Test((1, (1,2,3)))
>>> t.a
1
>>> t.a = 2
>>> t.a
2
>>> len(t)
2
>>> t
(1, (1, 2, 3))
>>> t[2]

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#495>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    t[2]
IndexError: tuple index out of range
>>> t[1]
(1, 2, 3)
>>> class Test(tuple):
 def __init__(self, (a, alist)):
  self.__init__(tuple(alist))
  self.a = a


>>> t = Test((1, (1,2,3)))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#500>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    t = Test((1, (1,2,3)))
  File "<pyshell#499>", line 3, in __init__
    self.__init__(tuple(alist))
  File "<pyshell#499>", line 2, in __init__
    def __init__(self, (a, alist)):
ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size
>>> class Test(tuple):
 def __init__(self, alist, a = None):
  self.__init__(tuple(alist))
  self.a = a


>>> t = Test((1,2,3), 4)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#503>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    t = Test((1,2,3), 4)
TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
>>> class Test(tuple):
 def __init__(self, (alist, a = None)):
  self.__init__(tuple(alist))
  self.a = a

SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>
>>> class Test(list):
 def __init__(self, (a, alist)):
  self.a = a
  self = tuple(alist)


>>> t = Test((4, (1,2,3)))
>>> t
[]
>>> class Test(list):
 def __init__(self, (a, alist)):
  self.a = a
  self = alist


>>> t = Test((4, (1,2,3)))
>>> t
[]
>>> t.a
4
>>> len(t)
0
>>> class Test(list):
 def __init__(self, a, alist):
  self.a = a
  self = alist


>>> t = Test(4, (1,2,3))
>>> t
[]
>>> t.a
4
>>> class Test(list):
 def __init__(self, a, alist):
  self.a = a
  self.__init__(alist)


>>> t = Test(4, (1,2,3))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#523>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    t = Test(4, (1,2,3))
  File "<pyshell#522>", line 4, in __init__
    self.__init__(alist)
TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 3 arguments (2 given)




From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar  3 14:49:54 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:49:54 -0000
Subject: WSDL in python?
References: <d114ac8b.0402270529.711a3619@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104cdn2qbbqt06b@corp.supernews.com>

In article <d114ac8b.0402270529.711a3619 at posting.google.com>,
Muhammad Alkarouri <malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>After googling for some time, and checking ZSI and other solutions, I
>have not found a way to write a web service application (server that
>is) in Python and automatically create a WSDL description for it.
>The question:
>- Does such a solution exist (WSDL server support)?
>- if not, any way to deploy python web services using WSDL, even if it
>needs learning another package/syntax/...?
>
>Please, don't suggest to me xml-rpc, as I have some compatibility
>issues..
			.
			.
			.
No; to the best of my knowledge there is no such package.

I probably should do it.  I did a crude one for Tcl, and I
even suspect I know of a client who'd pay for it, at least
in part.  Bluntly, while I'd like to do it, my calendar's
already too full, unless a lucrative contract falls on me,
and lets me shift other work around.

Is there another way?  Sure, there are lots.  You could
use Java- or Perl-based WSDL-savvy facilities, and control
them with Python.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 12 07:07:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:07:09 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<1051159aq8rifd0@corp.supernews.com>
	<405187fd$0$2803$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1053a1ff7rmfu12@news.supernews.com>


"Peter Hickman" <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message
news:405187fd$0$2803$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk...
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> > Forth.  Lisp.  Tcl.
>
> I was thinking of even less than that. Just define a few flow control
> things and get everything out of the objects. I expect it would look
> either like lisp or smalltalk.
>
> There would only be one built in datatype, the message, and all the
> objects would chuck messages around. Thus the language as such would
> have a very limited syntax.
>
> load Object.class;
> load Stream.class;
>
> x = new Object;
> s = new Stream;
>
> s.print x.to_string;
>
> So we have declare variables, load classes and pass messages.'

Have you looked at Io?

John Roth




From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Thu Mar 25 11:48:32 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:48:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<jbpo50di1jjqj92vk15notkjge311llg70@4ax.com.resend>
Message-ID: <c3v2h0$k3n$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Patrick Useldinger <p at trick.lu> writes:

>On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:28:40 GMT, kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser) wrote:

>>However, they do patch Python slightly by adding Modules/setup.local
>>to get around a non-standard naming of the tcl/tk libraries.

>That is what worries me with OpenBSD. They patch everything in order to
>make things more secure, which is their main focus. But doesn't this
>bring a lot of compatibility issues along? 
>If you compile "plain" Python from www.python.org  with the patched gcc,
>who guarantees that it will work?
>If you installed a patched Python, how can you be certain no bugs have
>been added?
>In any case, you're running a configuration that's less tested than the
>"original".

The reason for the patching is not security but compatability.  In fact they
explicitly warn you that external packages do not go through the security
audit.  The patches are to cover any differences between BSD and the intended
target Unix (eg change Linuxisms to BSDisms).  In other words compiling plain
Python won't work.

Eddie


From michael at foord.net  Wed Mar 31 02:19:14 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 23:19:14 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> [John Roth]
> > I believe the earliest versions of Python did use the single equal
> > sign for comparisons. I don't know why Guido changed it, but
> > it might be in order to keep his options open.
> 
> It was to stop ambiguity.  This was especially acute at an interactive
> shell, where guessing what
> 
> >>> x = y
> 
> intended often guessed wrong <wink> (it's common to wonder whether two
> things are equal at a shell prompt).  After the change, that became obvious:
> 
> >>> x = y  # assignment
> >>> x == y # equal?
>  False
> >>>


Despite *all* that...

The lines

if a = 3 
   print 'Yeah baby'

are still *unambiguous*.... yet the interpreter refuses to understand
you......

Theres no reason why a single '=' shouldn't be understood in a
conditional....
As for needing a ':' to allow statements after a 'def' or a
conditional.... python already has the ';' for that... why insist on a
':'

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 30 10:24:42 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:24:42 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com><AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com> <Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4c3fi$fp5$1@sea.gmane.org>

The irony of this idiocy is that is shows precisely why top-posting is bad.

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681 at fed1read04...
> A2. People that bitch about top-posting.
>
> "Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
> news:c4akqh$gml$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> > In article <AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872 at fed1read04>,
> > Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess
> I'll
> > >have to change that.
> > >
> > >I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in
> the
> > >language.
> >
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
> > -- 
> > Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> >
> > "usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Fri Mar 26 10:27:30 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 16:27:30 +0100
Subject: Python in the laboratory
References: <cthu10chwkb.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<Xns94B889E045142cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<10689llg2m9hke1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cthptaziq71.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>


Tanks to all, the links are very usefull.

Zunbeltz


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 14:11:57 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:11:57 +0000
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.99.1078669772.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m0rm40dindire28105fnie8dubaqd48v0b@4ax.com>

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:29:21 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>My arguments from the "Zen of Python" would be:
>
>    Beautiful is better than ugly.
>    Simple is better than complex.
>    Sparse is better than dense.
>    Readability counts.

Sparse can certainly be better than dense, but it is not an absolute.
With any style rule there is a need to balance issues and to use
common sense. If code can be made denser while still being readable
then more functionality can be viewed on screen at once - a major
benefit in readability and understanding as the more you can see, the
less you have to remember.

The Ruby code was IMO easier to understand Davids 'best' Python
(except for the regular expression). The left-to-right sequencing is
really no different than top-to-bottom sequencing in readability
terms. And adding comments is pointless when those comments just
duplicate what a standard method name already tells you - worse than
pointless, in fact, as it obscures the code that you're trying to
read. Good names are better than compensatory comments, and anyone
claiming to be a programmer should know the everyday names that are
used in his chosen language.

I know that isn't what your comments did, but my point is that the
Ruby example really doesn't need them. The nearest equivalent Python
code requires a temporary variable and either semicolons or splitting
over a few lines - the latter is probably better, though I adopted the
former in my earlier post. Simply breaking the code up, though,
provides no real readability benefits.

Put it this
way. How
much am I
improving
the
readability
of this
paragraph
by making
it stupidly
narrow like
this?

Splitting a perfectly clear line of code over several lines is exactly
the same thing and, as I said, the only readability issue that I could
see in the Ruby code was the regular expression.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 04:36:06 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 10:36:06 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > now simply add list comprehensions (or
> > loops), and you will maintain perfect consistency of treatment of
> > local variables,
> 
> It wouldn't do to make the whole (non-comprehension)
> for-loop a new scope, because that would make any
> variables assigned within the loop body local as well.

Sometimes you want that, and sometimes you don't. What you need is a
way to distinguish between the two. IOW, you want to distinguish
between creating a new binding, and rebinding. In Python both of these
are spelt thus: "=", and its actual meaning is determied by the
context. With the added spice of the exceptional case of "global".

Imagine (for the sake of brevity of argument --- I wouldn't dream of
suggesting such a "line-noise" syntax for Python) that you could use
"x := 3" to mean "create a new local binding for x", while "x = 3"
would mean "find the innermost x and rebind it", with function
parameters, loop variables, list comprehension variables all behaving
as if they were using ":=". Now you'll find that you gain a lot of
flexibility to do what is appropriate with scopes of variables used in
loops etc., and you have an opportunity to fix the immutability of
closures ...

(Of course there are "issues" ... what happens, for
example when you say

    def foo(a):
        a := 3
        a := 4

... does that make three nested scopes for a?, is it an error?)


From s4somesh at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar  1 00:36:35 2004
From: s4somesh at yahoo.co.in (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 29 Feb 2004 21:36:35 -0800
Subject: Skins for Python GUI !!
Message-ID: <5cc5bb23.0402292136.399c776a@posting.google.com>

I recently seen a small GUI program with Skins allplied.
the library used for that is Activeskin.
i wanna know weather Any GUi-Skins are available for pythons GUI ?
or how to use the activeskins for python gui(say ANy )??


From no at spam.invalid  Tue Mar  2 14:32:08 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:32:08 -0800
Subject: detecting the operating system
References: <c1mtcj$ofv$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <c22nfo$cgm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <c1mtcj$ofv$1 at news-int.gatech.edu>,
 "Woojay Jeon" <wjj{nospam}eon at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:

>OK, I tried a Google search on this Usenet group but couldn't find a
>solution, so I'm posting my question here (if there's a better archive than
>the one in Google, please let me know).
>
>Does anybody know how to detect the operating system under which the current
>Python program is running, especially whether it's Windows or Unix? I have a
>program that needs to search for files in "c:\test" if it's running under
>Windows, and "/home/user/test" if it's running under Unix, so the simplest
>solution I can think of is to detect the operating system, but if anyone
>could suggest a workaround, that would also be fine.

To simply differentiate between Windows and everything else, try 
importing a Windows-only library, such as _winreg or winsound:
 
try:
    import _winreg
    # at this point it's some flavor of Windows
except ImportError:
    # not Windows

-- Russell


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 12:37:47 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:37:47 GMT
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc63g62.403.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <slrnc63985.3n2.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>, Joe Mason wrote:
>> I don't know if the original data on PEP 308 is still availible. It would
>> be interesting (although it might just be throwing fuel on a fire that
>> should
>> be allowed to die down) to reanalyze it (and I don't know if I'm
>> volunteering
>> to do it or not!)
> 
> It's at the end of http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html.  I haven't
> looked at it in detail, but it looks wacky.

Sorry, that's just a summary.  It's not possible to reconstruct the
original ballots from that, I don't think.  I've now looked at it in
detail - it *is* wacky.

Joe


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 19 05:14:00 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:14:00 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
Message-ID: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Can one run a 1.5 .pyc file with the 2.x version
interpreters and vice versa?

How about running a 2.x .pyc using a 2.y interpreter?


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 11:23:54 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:23:54 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.200.1079828118.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.200.1079828118.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3kf7h$28qseq$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:

> This becomes obvious when you consider the possibilities associated
> with Jython, which could (already does?) compile Python source to jar
> files directly.

A .jar file is just a .zip file composed of a collection of .class files
(JVM bytecodes) plus an additional text-based manifest file.

Jython _does_ compile Python source to .class files (because that is
really the only way to get it to run on the JVM), and the same will apply
for any other language, like Kawa (a Scheme implementation), that run 'on
top of Java' (i.e. gain access to the huge functionality present in
the Java libraries).

Essentially, whenever someone says so-and-so language runs on Java, it means
that they have a compiler for that langauge that emits JVM bytecodes.  These
bytecodes can then be run on any implementation of the JVM, whether a JIT-compiling
one or purely interpreted.  Further, you can also opt to take that bytecode / .class
file and compile it into native code via a native-code compiler like gcj.

The separation of the layers is very nice and clean and you can substitute
those coming from different sources and expect things to work:


Language Compiler (javac, Jikes, Pizza, Jython, Kawa, JIcon, etc...)
       |
       |  emits .class files which can be packaged into .jars
       |
       V
JVM implementation + Runtime Environment / native code compiler
  (Hotspot, Jalapeno, etc...)               (gcj, JRockit, etc...)
                                                     |
                                                     |
                                                     V
                                              native executable

Thus it is reasonable to take the exact same .class file compiled by, say,
Jython or Kawa on a Mac and expect it to run perfectly well on a JVM
implementation running on an x86 or an AS/400 minicomputer.  *This*
is what would be nice to have with .pyc files.

Note that there is one other consideration besides the presence of a JVM,
and that is the Runtime Environment (the APIs).  Swing may not have been
implemented on the AS/400, but it is implemented on X Window so the
Jython-Swing app you compiled on a Mac would work and look exactly alike
( sluggishly, that is... ;-) ) on a Solaris, FreeBSD, or Linux box.


From peterstrempel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 03:51:54 2004
From: peterstrempel at yahoo.com (Peter Strempel)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 08:51:54 GMT
Subject: embed python
References: <c2pi2o$17dm$2@news.riken.go.jp>
	<slrnc51dig.f0l.peterstrempel@peter-strempels-computer.local>
	<c311q8$1vah$1@news.riken.go.jp>
Message-ID: <slrnc5879c.gkh.peterstrempel@defiant.local>

In article <c311q8$1vah$1 at news.riken.go.jp>, Marc Schellens wrote:

>> Usually "#include "Python.h" is the right way.

> ok, but why everybody writes #include "Python.h" instead of
> #include <Python.h> ? The latter form is the corrcet one for
> header files wich are not part of the actual project.

Yes, you are right. Should be <Python.h>. I was sloppy in my post.
GCC should be generous and accept "Python.h", too, but it might not
work with all compilers.

I checked my current project code, it has <Python.h>. I don't know what
everyone else writes. :)

Not exactly related to your question, but if you are doing embedding,
have a look at Pyrex which can be misused for extremely simple embedding
as it saves you the need to write all the C boilerplate code. This isn't
exactly what Pyrex is made for, but is a wonderful way to save some
time and efforts.

 Peter


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Mar 23 11:02:41 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:02:41 -0800
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
References: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <pl36j1-10q.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

webmaster at keyphrene.com wrote:
> The last pyOpenSSL has been released in September 2002.
> pyOpenSSL is dead or not?

Having just been through this, the only living OpenSSL project I
found was M2Crypto.  (I wanted to do client and server side
XML-RPC over SSL and needed to do things like present certificates
to the user).

M2Crypto does work on Windows, Linux and Mac.  I did however have
to spend almost a week to get things working well, mainly because
M2Crypto is geared to work on Python 1.5 and up, and I needed
some recent things to work such as persistent connections which
use classes not in Python 1.5.  There are also several comments
thoughout the code that imply there may be memory leaks (mainly
due to a mismatch between the Python and OpenSSL models of
when things are freed).

Recently TLS Lite appeared which is a pure Python implementation
of SSL.  It can however find local libraries of OpenSSL, GMP etc
and use them to go faster.  http://trevp.net/tlslite/
I can't vouch for it, as I really don't want to have to redo
all my work with a different library.  However if I hadn't already
done the work, I would start with this one.

Roger




From ville at spammers.com  Sat Mar 13 04:17:13 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 11:17:13 +0200
Subject: PEP 318 (wrappers), multimethods,
	strict typechecking (was Re: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyfu10w68xo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94AB41289E78AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<c2ucol$c82$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<du7oer1t8r2.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <du7k71pt8bq.fsf_-_@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>


    Ville> Or in Python 2.4 (strict_type is hypothetical for now):

    Ville> def foo(a,b) [typecheck(type1, type2):
    Ville> pass

    Ville> def foo(a,b) [typecheck(type3, type4):
    Ville> pass

    Ville> which is even nicer :-).

Damn, my brain never works properly on sat/sun morning. Obviously I
meant that there could be wrappers for:

asserttype: check all args w/ isinstance

multimethod: dynamically choose the func/method to execute. Slow, but
sometimes people need it.

And if someone wonders what I'm going on about, check out:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html

This might also be a good time to dream up all kinds of cool wrappers
we can think about :)

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar  3 18:02:06 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 09:52:06 +1050
Subject: decimal point character
References: <c25nut$1p9kb2$1@ID-59332.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc4cq4u.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:58:36 +0100, Bror Johansson wrote:
> Is there a way to 'configure' the built-in conversion function float() to
> accept '.' (dot) as decimalpartdelimiter when executing in an
> anglo-american-language environment and to accept ',' (comma) when executing
> in a language environment where that character is used for the same purpose?

The word you want, rather than "environment", is "locale".  The issue of
decimal point separator is one of the "locale conventions", queried via
locale.localeconv().

    >>> import locale
    >>> locale.getlocale()
    (None, None)
    >>> locale.getdefaultlocale()
    ['en_AU', 'utf']

    >>> locale.localeconv()['decimal_point']
    '.'
    >>> locale.localeconv()['mon_decimal_point']
    ''

    >>> locale.localeconv()
    {'mon_decimal_point': '', 'int_frac_digits': 127, 'p_sep_by_space':
    127, 'frac_digits': 127, 'thousands_sep': '', 'n_sign_posn': 127,
    'decimal_point': '.', 'int_curr_symbol': '', 'n_cs_precedes': 127,
    'p_sign_posn': 127, 'mon_thousands_sep': '', 'negative_sign': '',
    'currency_symbol': '', 'n_sep_by_space': 127, 'mon_grouping': [],
    'p_cs_precedes': 127, 'positive_sign': '', 'grouping': []}

Read about what each of these convention values mean:

    <http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-locale.html>

-- 
 \           "Military justice is to justice what military music is to |
  `\                                          music."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From eugene at boardkulture.com  Wed Mar  3 17:25:50 2004
From: eugene at boardkulture.com (Eugene Van den Bulke)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:25:50 +1100
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
References: <mailman.3.1078341457.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opr4a4lcoph5525a@news.tpg.com.au>

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:18:02 -0500, Maru, Mulugeta <mmaru at visiontv.ca> 
wrote:

> Is there a turorial on MySQL/Python?
>
> VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television 
> network.
>

http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/MySQL-Connectivity-With-Python/

basic but it does the job ;)

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 17 09:59:54 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:59:54 -0600
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux +++
In-Reply-To: <20040317052354.92068.qmail@web13011.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040317050108.71682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040317052354.92068.qmail@web13011.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16472.26602.428386.396876@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Anthony> s = 'abc'
    Anthony> unicode(s, 'gbk')
    Anthony> print s # prints 'abc'

    [fails]

Anthony,

The above is a bit nonsensical, since you didn't actually modify s.  I
assume you really meant:

    s = 'abc'
    s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
    print s

Remember the basic rule of Unicode?  If you don't know the encoding, you
don't know nuthin'.  Unicode objects themselves are encoding-neutral.  The
print statement has to encode s somehow (Unicode objects aren't displayed
directly), so it uses the system's default encoding, which from your earlier
messages appears to be "latin-1".

Perhaps you're confused by

    s = unicode(s, 'gbk')

This says, "Convert the string s to a Unicode object assuming the string is
encoded using the 'gbk' charset, then bind the resulting object to s." Note
the 'gbk' doesn't become an attribute of the Unicode object, so later on
when you try to print it

    print s

it needs to decide how to encode the object and for that it used the current
default encoding, typically "ascii".  In the case of "abc" that's no
problem.  For other code points in other character sets (I'm not sure I'm
using the terminology quite right there) you need to be explicit:

    print s.encode('gbk')

or use an appropriate system-wide default encoding.

Skip




From usenet at ixokai.net  Sun Mar 21 23:49:26 2004
From: usenet at ixokai.net (Ixokai)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:49:26 -0800
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
References: <I6t7c.80655$u_5.47815@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <105ss2qp6lkdm7f@corp.supernews.com>

*blink*

Long, complex?

>>> modname = 'email'
>>> mod = __import__(email)
>>> mod
<module 'email' from 'Z:\python23\lib\email\__init__.py'>

?

--Stephen
"Randall Smith" <randall at tnr.cc> wrote in message
news:I6t7c.80655$u_5.47815 at fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I've found an easy and clean way to load and use modules that are loaded
> after a program has started when the name of the module can not be
> pre-determined.
>
> modname = 'usermodname'
> # load the module
> exec('import ' + modname)
> # alias the module
> usersmod = eval(modname)
>
> Not you can use the module like this: usermod.def
> Where def is some function, class, etc. defined in the module.
>
> Very simple.  I stumbled on this for a while and even read some long,
> complex solutions involving using __import__, etc.  Just thought I'd
share.
>
> Randall




From s4somesh at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar  1 23:32:26 2004
From: s4somesh at yahoo.co.in (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 20:32:26 -0800
Subject: wxGlade not Running !
Message-ID: <5cc5bb23.0403012032.574e583f@posting.google.com>

i installed wxGlade on System xp, when i started it ..its not running ?


From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  2 13:13:32 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:13:32 +0100
Subject: time.sleep()
References: <c22icd$s8s$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <eksbktgz.fsf@python.net>

Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:

> Does standard C have anything like Python's time.sleep() function?

I don't think so.  IIRC, on windows the win32 api Sleep() is used, on
linux probably select().  Read the source to find out.

Thomas




From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Mar 17 12:24:31 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:24:31 +0100
Subject: debian packages
References: <405852DA.8030808@Invalid.domain>
Message-ID: <opr40ny5nq35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:30:02 +0200, Debian User <User at Invalid.domain> 
wrote:

> With redhat deciding go make some real money from the fruits of their 
> labour, management decided to try out debian. This leads me to my 
> possible future problem: is there a way to create debian (deb) packages 
> using distutils (or any other python extensiom) for python scripts?
> I used to build RPMS using distutils and custom spec files.
>

I don't know whether this is possible but you can always create an 
rpm-package and use afterwards the 'alien' tool to transform the rpm-file 
into a deb-file.

Hope this hint helps...
Cheers,
Marco




From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar 13 17:43:30 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:43:30 +0100
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
References: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <c302qi$3lj$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Paul Watson wrote:

> How can I get the escapes from a command line parameter interpreted?
> 
> The user provides a string on the command line.  The string might contain
> traditional escapes such as \t, \n, etc.  It might also contain escaped
> octal or hex such as \001 or \x09.
> 
> The escapes are coming into sys.argv[] without shell interpretation.  Do I
> need to use the compile module to make this work?  Any suggestions?
> 
> ===
> $ cat ./try_arglen2.py
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> import sys, StringIO
> print sys.argv[1]
> 
> print sys.argv[1] % ()
> 
> sf = StringIO.StringIO()
> print >> sf, sys.argv[1],
> c = sf.getvalue()
> sf.close()
> print "now" + c + "is" + c + "the"
> 
> # This works because the interpreter is processing the escapes.
> 
> sf = StringIO.StringIO("\001")
> c = sf.getvalue()
> sf.close()
> print "now" + c + "is" + c + "the"
> 
> ===
> $ ./try_arglen2.py '\001'
> \001
> \001
> now\001is\001the
> now?is?the

If I'm understanding you correctly:

<args.py>
import sys
print sys.argv[1].decode("string_escape")
</args.py>

$ python args.py "winter\nof\012our\x0Adiscontent"
winter
of
our
discontent

Peter



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar  9 15:43:46 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:43:46 +0000
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
References: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
	<c2jfsb$68n$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <gaas40hva747l148fmnd0prnfq2rdpm5he@4ax.com>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:03:43 -0800, Josiah Carlson
<jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:

>> Firstly,  the code runs in exponential time. Is there any way to
>> rewrite it to make it more efficient? It seems that this could be
>> formulated as a recursive problem but I can't seem to get at it.
>
>The code does not run in exponential time.  It runs in linear time to 
>the number of grid points that exist.  Depending on your input, this can 
>vary.

It is exponential in the number of dimensions, making various
assumptions (mainly that all ordinalities are roughly equal). It is
polynomial in the ordinality of dimensions, again with assumptions
(constant number of dimensions, all ordinalities roughly equal). It is
linear in the number of grid points. It is constant time, for a
specific set of inputs.

When you write O(n), formally you have to define what n means. But I
don't think Rajarshi needed to be so formal. His intention should have
been clear, though - he didn't intend O(n^k), but rather O(k^n) where
n is the number of dimensions - making performance exponential.

The real problem is that the number of output grid points is obviously
exponential in the number of dimensions (or polynomial in the
ordinalities, etc) so it's impossible to improve on this performance
characteristic while still generating all the grid points - only the
constant scalings can be improved.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sat Mar 20 14:35:06 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:35:06 GMT
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> [Ed Cogburn]
> 
>> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled
>> around some and read some programming language websites but I have yet
>> to find a language similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.
>> [...] Is there such a thing?
> 
> What is your real need?  Why do you consider important to compile
> something to an executable binary?  The goal is executing a program
> written in Python, or Python-like language, isn't it?

I really don't think why he needs it is necessary to answer this
question: he stated what he wanted clearly enough.  And I would say
questioning his need for a complied language is quite presumptuous.

Maybe he does need speed.  Maybe he needs ease of distribution.  Maybe
he need something tiny to run on a old computer of embedded system.
These are very reasonable needs.

And it's certainly reasonable to want this need filled by something
that's like Python.


> If the goal is speed, you might not obtain much by the mere fact of
> having a binary, and might be surprised anyway by the bloat of size.

He asked for a Python-like compiled language, not the ability to
compile Python itself.  Such a thing certainly would have an advantage
in speed, and there's no reason it would be bloated.  And, it would be
much better than the statically-typed languages we're all used to,
since it would have a better indenting, and is more concise and
readable.  (It would probably be better in other ways, too.)


> There are avenues, Pyrex is a good example, in which you may write
> Python-like code which runs at C speed, if you do proper compromises.

Pyrex can improve speed, but does not offer some of the other benefits
of compiled binary.  That might be enough for him, I don't know.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any statically-typed that are like
Python.  Pyrex is probably the closest thing.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Mar 26 19:55:08 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:55:08 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<c429js$2ddf7r$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc69iht.a35.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c429js$2ddf7r$1 at ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>, Daniel Ellison wrote:
> That's what I love about prototype-based languages: they're just so simple.
> Class-based language suffer from the meta-class complication, where in
> Prothon (or in Self, or JavaScript, or Io, etc.) this is a non-issue.
> 
> If the Prothon people can somehow convert the Python libraries, we'll have a
> very interesting situation...

I would like to point out that you can make Python work pretty much the
same way, too, with only a few rough edges.  (Summary starts at
http://www.advogato.org/person/JoeNotCharles/diary.html?start=2 - I
already posted a link to that in response to the initial announcement.)

This has the benefit that you can choose to make just your new classes
prototyped - say, by creating a ProtoBase class with the "__metaclass__ =
Prototype" attribute, so that any subclass of ProtoBase works as in
Prothon and everything else as in classic Python.  That means you can
keep using any existing libraries you want, mix it with new code, etc.

The complexity of the metaclass, of course, can be hidden in a library
so that users don't need to know about it any more than they know how
Prothon works under the hood.

I prefer this to Prothon (he says without having done more than read the
summary on the web page) because it makes only the minimal changes
needed to make Python prototype-based - all the various other changes,
like the tab problem, don't have to be taken into account when deciding
whether to use the language or not.

Joe


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar  9 18:25:39 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:25:39 +1100
Subject: sorting a list
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE0145F8AC@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com
> 
> Hi
> I want to sort a list.
> My problem is:
> 
> >>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
> >>> a.sort()
> >>> a
> ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
> 
> 
> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']
> 
> Is there any module to sort a list this way?

Many. However, first you need to clarify a few things.

1. Do you want to sort completely case-insensitively, or do you specifically want to sort uppercase before lowercase for the same letter.

2. Is your input restricted to ASCII? Once you start getting into Unicode things become more difficult.

Anyway, the two major methods are to pass a `cmp` function, or to perform decorate-sort-undecorate.

    # Pass a comparison function.
    a.sort(cmp=func)

    # DSU
    a = [(key_func(x), x) for x in a]
    a.sort()
    a = [x[-1] for x in a]

DSU will almost always be faster. Note also that in Python 2.4 there will be built-in support for DSU via the `key` parameter to `sort`:

    a.sort(key=key_func)

except that it doesn't actually need to undecorate, so it's even faster.

Tim Delaney



From peterm at resmed.com.au  Tue Mar  2 16:45:09 2004
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:45:09 +1100
Subject: Your favorite Python-related (X)Emacs thingamajiks? 
References: <87llmjn5mh.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
Message-ID: <Gf71c.558$fv1.10546@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

If you're interested in code abbreviations (aka skeletons) then you might
want to look at ELSE - it has a (reasonably) complete set of definitions for
the entire Python language. It's well documented (40+ page users manual) and
you don't need any funny unreadable hieroglyphics to create a new construct
like you do with skeleton.el :-) e.g. the following is the definition of a
Python def statement in ELSE's template language:

DEFINE PLACEHOLDER FUNCDEF -
    /LANGUAGE="Python" -
    /NOAUTO_SUBSTITUTE -
    /DESCRIPTION=""
    /DUPLICATION=CONTEXT_DEPENDENT -
    /SEPARATOR="" -
    /TYPE=NONTERMINAL -

    "def {identifier} ([defparameter]...):"
    "  [document_string]"
    "  {statement}..."
    ""

END DEFINE

ELSE provides commands to navigate backwards and forwards between
placeholders (the text enclosed by {}'s and []'s - which are [obviously]
persistent BTW, you don't "lose" them between edit sessions or by expanding
a new abbreviation like you do with skeleton.el) and when you start typing
into one of them it gets deleted automatically and replaced by the
characters being typed.

It can be viewed and downloaded at http://www.zipworld.com.au/~peterm

Regards,
Peter


"Edvard Majakari" <edvard+news at majakari.net> wrote in message
news:87llmjn5mh.fsf at titan.staselog.com...
>
> I just thought to share mine:
>
> (define-skeleton esm-skel-python-def
>   "Inserts a new python function definition at point."
>   "method name: "
>   "def " str
>   "("
>   ("argument, %s: "
>    str & ", ") & -2 & "):" | -1 & "():"
>    \n
>    >"\"\"\"" ("comment: " str) ".\"\"\"" \n)
>
> (define-abbrev python-mode-abbrev-table "def" "" 'esm-skel-python-def)
>
> It's not very neat, but it does create a simple, consistent Python def
> whenever you type 'def ' and prompts for a name, list of arguments and
> comment for the method. Some day I'll try to make it more intelligent and
> automatically add 'self' as the first parameter, if I'm inside a class.
>
> --
> # Edvard Majakari Software Engineer
> # PGP PUBLIC KEY available    Soli Deo Gloria!
>
> $_ = '456476617264204d616a616b6172692c20612043687269737469616e20'; print
> join('',map{chr hex}(split/(\w{2})/)),uc
substr(crypt(60281449,'es'),2,4),"\n";
>




From http  Sat Mar 13 18:24:32 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 15:24:32 -0800
Subject: Safety of pickle?
References: <yDM4c.210$pa6.162325@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <7xsmgcz5xr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Leif K-Brooks <eurleif at ecritters.biz> writes:
> Is it safe to unpickle data from an untrusted source? Is it safe to
> use the values returned without lots of annoying type checking?

No.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 11:29:59 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 17:29:59 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Stefan Axelsson <crap1234 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:

[...]

> > - Static typing systems refuse to compile programs which contain type
> >   errors.
> > - Test suites point out where your program deviates from expected
> >   behaviour.
> 
> You're really not comparing like with like here.

I am comparing two often cited means to help writing more correct
programs.

> While the first statement is true on the face of it. The second is
> also true on the face of it, but probably not what you meant. It's
> that if the unit tests have been designed to find deviations from
> the 'expected' behaviour they will. Whether the 'expected' behaviour
> was actually the 'specified' behaviour is another question entirely.
> Programmers/designers misunderstanding the specification is all to
> common an occurrence.

No argument there.  However, static type systems' misunderstanding of
the problem is an even more common occurence ... basically because
static type systems don't even attempt to understand the problem. They
interfere with the developer regardless.

> So, in the case of unit testing the specification has to be
> interpreted. And there's nothing to stop the programmer to take
> advantage of a static typing system to make the same interpretation,
> aka 'typeful programming'. There's little difference between thinking
> up a test case and a type during the design. (And you have to do both
> anyway).

The sum of the capabilities of your language strike me as more
flexible that the just the typesystem, so I would venture that test
suites offer you more fine grained control when specifying the
required behaviour of your program. But I'd love to be enlightened, if
I'm missing your point.

> It should be noted that I speak of Hindley Milner type typesystems.
> I.e. that do type inference and can handle polymorphism in data
> structures as in e.g. Haskell.

(In which case you should note that I largely absolve those type
systems from my (specific to this thread) criticisms, upthread.)

> I've found that a problem with making this restriction is that someone
> always draws up 'C' or 'C++' as an example of 'static typing' and by
> all means, if that's what you're comparing against, then allmost
> anything would be an improvement.

No argument there.

> However they're not state of the art and any example drawn from the
> that world is not an argument against static typing per se.

Would you consider Java's type system to be "state of the art"?  I
ask, because all too often I am confronted with things like the
following (this one actually comes from elswthere in this very
thread):

gabor <gabor at z10n.net> writes:

gabor> i wanted to use python for a project in our company... we wanted to
gabor> build a fairly big system/program.
gabor> 
gabor> but when i recommended python, i got a question like:
gabor> (previously all the programs were written in java) "if one of
gabor> our programmers changes a method in a class/interface, we
gabor> immediately will know about it, because the next
gabor> program-rebuild will simply fail. but if we would use python,
gabor> we wouldn't find it out".

... which suggests to me that there are a lot of people out there
(most of whom have probably never heard of Hindley Milner type
systems, or any languages endowed with them) firmly believe that
static type systems in general (and Java, C++ in particular) help them
write more correct code. This is a fallacy and their noses should be
rubbed in it.

> > What is more important to you and/or your clients ?  Ask yourself the
> > following questions:
> > - Do your clients give a hoot about whether or not a program is
> 
> >   considered to be type-correct by the type system of programming
> >   language X ?
> > - Do your clients care whether your program does what it is supposed
> > to
> 
> >   do ?
> 
> As I said. Given typeful programming the first statement is more or
> less the same as the second. 

Forgive me if I am wrong ... but typeful programming is more of a
programming style rather than a property of a (static) type system, is
it not? I realize that Haskell encourages typeful programming by its
very nature, but that doesn't make typeful programming an property of
the type system.

(I am not sufficiently familiar with typeful programming or Haskell,
in a real-life situation, so do correct me if you think I am wrong.)

You could attempt to improve the correctness of your software by
writing test suites, or you could do it by programming "typefully";
either way you have to invest some effort. What I object to, is the
suggestions that static type systems somehow provide some significant
safety for free. What I object to even more, is the suggestion that
static type systems are _necessary_ to prevent any development process
from turning into an unmitigated disaster. Well, let's not get too
excited ... what I object to are suggestions that Java is more
suitable for programming projects _because_ it has a static type
system.

> And the second doesn't follow from your statements above,

In what sense should it "follow" ?  It's an independent
question. (Though it does appear in a suggestive context ...)

> there's a crucial difference.

Between what and what ?


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Mar 15 04:52:33 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 01:52:33 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com> <x71xnzhvb7.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403150152.6af7f53f@posting.google.com>

Dieter Maurer <dieter at handshake.de> wrote:

> This will break lots of code...

That's why it's a __future__ option.

> A package writer does know which external modules/packages he needs
> and can avoid to use the name of one of these modules for his
> own modules.

But it's not just used in packages, where the filenames of sibling
modules are known. There may be scripts in directories with many
unrelated files, for which relative importing would be highly
undesirable (or even, in a directory where someone other than the
owner has write-access, a possible security risk).

> Relative imports are essential to enhance locality.

Sure. But we need to separate relative and absolute imports. The status
quo is inconsistent (sometimes it's relative, sometimes it's not) and
trips people up. Making the current syntax do an absolute rather than a
relative import is a good choice because:

  - in general, absolute imports are used more often;

  - a proper relative import mechanism requires the ability to 'go up'
    which can't currently be done, so we'd be inventing new syntax for
    it anyway.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From gb at tuebingen.mpg.de  Wed Mar  3 12:40:07 2004
From: gb at tuebingen.mpg.de (Goekhan Bakir)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:40:07 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <005d01c40146$91af2690$3428260a@tigris>


..buzzz.... c64 filter activated ...strrep ('Lisp','C64')...

The C64 has been declared dead for the past N years. Unlike Amiga,
Arcon, CPC464...
and many more computers that came and went, it is still alife and 
kicking. It will be alive and fun to use in for many years to come,
because 
it still has many advantages over PC, Mac's, etc... and many other 
computers that *will* come and go before the C64 is truly retired.

..buzzz... 

:-)

sorry i could not resist replying to this :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+gb=tuebingen.mpg.de at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+gb=tuebingen.mpg.de at python.org] On Behalf Of
Matthias Felleisen
Sent: Mittwoch, 3. M?rz 2004 14:41
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming
language


nobody wrote:

> EPILOGUE:
> 
> I do not hate Lisp, and I think it was a fine tool decades ago, and I 
> am not going to say "Lisp sucks". However, now that we have superior 
> languages for coding close to the iron, high-performance computing, 
> number crunching, algorithms, scripting and gluing components 
> together, Lisp should be finally retired.

somebody answers:

Lisp has been declared dead for the past N years. Unlike Algol, Simula
67, PL/I, 
Pascal, ... and many more languages that came and went, it is still
alife and 
kicking. It will be alive and fun to program in for many years to come,
because 
it still has many advantages over C#, Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, and many
other 
languages that *will* come and go before Lisp is truly retired.

Long live Scheme

And now it's time to go back and strengthen Scheme even more.

-- Matthias Felleisen, PLT

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From m.bless at gmx.de  Fri Mar 26 03:56:52 2004
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:56:52 GMT
Subject: paths: splitall(), relativepath()
References: <4061ff76.3773921@news.muenster.de>
	<mailman.409.1080230155.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4063f020.3879296@news.versatel.de>

[Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>]

>relativepath won't work with mac-style paths, instead of ".." you should
>probably use os.pardir instead.

Good point, thanks. I wasn't aware of os.pardir.

mb - Martin Bless


From tim at fourstonesExpressions.com  Tue Mar  2 22:15:59 2004
From: tim at fourstonesExpressions.com (Tim Stone)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:15:59 -0600
Subject: [Spambayes] RE: E-mail account disabling warning.
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFBJEAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFBJEAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <opr39ncxtgit6vze@mail.fourstonesExpressions.com>

Oh!  Oh!  Finally a chance to meet Guido... I cannot resist... <click> 
<click>

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:02 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

> It shouldn't need to be said, but if you get a message that looks like 
> this:
>
>> Dear user of Python.org gateway e-mail server,
>>
>> We  warn  you about some attacks on your  e-mail account. Your
>> computer may contain viruses, in order to keep your computer and
>> e-mail account safe, please, follow the  instructions.
>>
>> For details see  the attached file.
>>
>> For  security  reasons attached file is password protected. The
>> password is "28132".
>>
>> Cheers,
>>     The Python.org team
>> http://www.python.org
>
> it's not from anyone at python.org, and the zip file attached contains a
> Windows virus.  But if you run it anyway, I'm sure Guido will be happy to
> fly to your house and clean up your PC.
>
> it's-the-least-he-could-do-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Spambayes at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes
> Check the FAQ before asking: http://spambayes.sf.net/faq.html
>



-- 

Exprimez vous!; Expr?sese; Esprimi te stesso; Express yourself!
Tim Stone
See my photography at www.fourstonesExpressions.com



From gandreas at no.reply  Mon Mar 29 13:48:02 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:48:02 -0600
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.11.1080489481.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc6du9d.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.55.1080568422.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc6gc7a.i1i.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <gandreas-E44F6B.12480229032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <slrnc6gc7a.i1i.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>,
 Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <mailman.55.1080568422.20120.python-list at python.org>, Jeff Epler 
> wrote:
> >> BTW, I've got three pure-python solutions now (four when this one's
> >> fixed) but it turns out they all suffer from a flaw:
> >> 
> >> >>> class TestProto: l = []
> >> ... 
> >> >>> class Test2(TestProto): pass
> >> ... 
> >> >>> TestProto.l
> >> []
> >> >>> Test2.l
> >> []
> >> >>> Test2.l.append(0)
> >> >>> Test2.l
> >> [0]
> >> >>> TestProto.l
> >> [0]
> >> 
> >> We really need copy-on-write lists and dicts - and large objects in
> >> general - for this to work.
> > 
> > Can't you just follow the Python rule for classes with a little
> > difference?
> > * if you want some data to be shared by reference among the Prototype
> >   and all its children, declare it at 'prototype' ('class') scope
> > * if you don't, create it in __init__
> 
> Possibly.  You need something, at least - full copy-on-write seems like
> the most transparent, but also the most work to set up.  (I'm still
> reading up on Self and others to find out how they handle these things.)

copy-on-write wouldn't handle the above issue though, since you aren't 
writing Test2.l, you are sending a message to Test2.l (which may, or may 
not, mutate Test2.l).  You could provide some formalization of "mutable" 
vs "immutable" and make copy-on-mutate, but even that is subtle - at 
what point does something count as being "mutated"?  If you've got an 
immutable array of object and you call a mutating method of one of those 
objects, does the original mutate (and invoke copy-on-mutate)?

Or even simpler, even if you can catch:

   Test2.l.append(0)

to be copy-on-mutate, what about:

   x = Test2.l
   x.append(0)

Since that would be identical to:

   x = TestProto.l
   x.append(0)

how would you tell the difference?


Self basically provides two different methods for getting & setting 
instance variables, both of which can be replaced independantly.  The 
"setter" part is more interest for this since "foo.bar = 5" is just 
synatic sugar for "foo x: 5" (which by default will simply set the "x" 
slot equal to the value, so when you then execute "foo x" you get that 
new value).

It does take a while to wrap your brain around the subtle edge cases 
here, especially when combined with multiple inheritance (since the 
setter and getter might both come from a different parent then), but 
"Organizing Programs Without Classes" [Ungar, Chambers, Chang, Holzle] 
is well worth reading, re-reading, and digging out an reading again 
every couple of years.


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_  Mon Mar  1 22:01:48 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:01:48 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
In-Reply-To: <c20g92$nu4$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<6uK0c.4347$mx4.106055@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vsqe$6rh$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<R4M0c.4365$mx4.107234@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c20g92$nu4$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hRS0c.82749$QM4.1332869@weber.videotron.net>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <R4M0c.4365$mx4.107234 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> Nicolas Fleury  <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>>But even if I use "thread", I have no way to put the functionality in 
>>one class if I want access the members in the running thread.
> 
> Huh?  I don't understand what you mean.

Well, suppose I want to have a class with the same interface of 
threading.Thread, but with two additions:
class CancellableThread:
     def __del__(self): self.cancel()

The first addition is that the finalizer use a sub-class implemented 
mechanism for cancellation of the thread.
The second addition is that, as soon as the object is not referred 
anymore in the parent thread, the thread object is finalized.

Note that it doesn't need to be the finalizer, what is necessary is 
something to be called when the object is no more referred in the parent 
thread.

I'm saying that I don't know of any way to do that with a single class, 
because I expect the sub-class to define something like:
     def run(self)
And the thread object will be referred in the running thread by "self", 
so I'm stuck without any way to know when the thread object is not 
referred in the main thread.

I can do something like:
class Canceller:
     def __init__(self, thread): self.thread = thread
     def __del__(self): self.thread.cancel()

so that I encapsulate all threads with "Cancellers" in the parent 
thread, but then I have to use two objects to the job that could 
possibly be done by one.

>>- Parent threads need to be cancelled before their children threads.
> 
> Why's that a problem?  Just hold references to the parent threads in the
> main thread and cascade the cancels down.

You're right, it works.  At the moment I wrote that I expected mix of a 
CancellableThread class implemented with this mechanism with other 
threads classes to cause loss of link between threads.  If that happens 
all threads that are not CancellableThreads (like the main thread) must 
call the function to cancel remaining CancellableThreads started 
directly by them.

>>- It only works at the end of the main thread; it cannot be used at the 
>>middle of an appplication.
> 
> Why?

Because the goal is to cancel threads that are no more referred in the 
main thread.  Since there's no way to know which they are, there's no 
way to do it at the middle of an application.  You have to do it at the 
end of the main thread, as for other threads, where you can assumed that 
cancellable threads should be cancelled and joined.

I don't know if my explications of what I'm searching are more clear.  I 
have the feeling it's impossible to do it without a language extension 
and at the same time that it would be less error-prone than 
threading.Thread as deamons or not.  Maybe I could write a PEP just for 
the exercise of it...

Regards,
Nicolas


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Tue Mar 30 03:33:54 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:33:54 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c4ba4d$i9g$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4ba4d$i9g$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <20040330093354.27328dff.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:11:55 +0800
"Phipps Xue" <phipps.xue at sap.com> wrote:

> pyGTK is also a good GUI frameworks but it's not available now for
> windows platform. I suppose it's its most important shortage.

I'm developing for Linux, so that's less of an issue for me....  Although I did check out the pyGTK module we've got installed here at work and it seems very slightly different from the version in the pyGTL tutorials(mainloop() instead of main_loop(), GtkWindow() instead of Window()...)

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar  5 12:14:59 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:14:59 -0800
Subject: how to write python server page by using mod_python?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E7E@opus.amorhq.net>

wenming_hu wrote:
> according to your guide, i have succeed in configuring the 
> apache...And I have two files , nothing else but 
> dispatch.py and welcome.htm,  in the
> folder f:\pspsite,
> 
> the dispathch.py has the following code:
> 
> # dispatch.py
> from mod_python import apache
> 
> def handler(req):
>     return apache.OK
> 
> Then i restart the apache, enter the URL 
> "http://localhost/web" in my web
> browser, but get nothing.

You don't _need_ welcome.htm. Try this first: rewrite dispatch.py to:


from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):

    req.write(""""<html>
<head><title>welcome to this site!</title></head>
<body>
<center><h1>Hello, world! This is a new site!</h1></center>
</body>
</html>""")
    return apache.OK

If you truly want to keep the HTML separate (and I think you should),
begin by rewriting dispatch.py to:

from mod_python import apache
import codecs
import os.path
localDir = os.path.dirname(__file__)

def handler(req):
    atoms = aRequest.uri.split("/")
    script = atoms.pop()
    newFileName = os.path.join(localDir, script)
    infile = codecs.open(newFileName, "r", "ISO-8859-1")
    req.write(infile.read().replace(u'\r\n', u'\n'))
    infile.close()    
    return apache.OK



Hope that helps!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Mon Mar 29 04:27:27 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:27:27 +0200
Subject: mxDateTime function DateFromString gives wrong year
In-Reply-To: <Xns94B85C8895292rzed@63.223.5.95>
References: <c3s4r2$2bl6t3$1@uni-berlin.de>
	<tan760la6aejk7ahtus5csfg2rc2pkjif7@4ax.com>
	<c412g7$2d20ui$1@uni-berlin.de> <Xns94B85C8895292rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <c48q5v$2f0ren$1@uni-berlin.de>

rzed schrieb:
> Sibylle Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> wrote
> in news:c412g7$2d20ui$1 at uni-berlin.de: 
> 
> 
>>Tim Roberts schrieb:
>>
>>>Sibylle Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de>
>>>wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>This is very nearly a repetition of a post by Peter Hansen from
>>>>2002-07-07 which never got an answer:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>x = mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('Nov 2003')
>>>>>>>x
>>>>
>>>><DateTime object for '2004-11-20 00:00:00.00' at a61ba0>
>>>>
>>>>Using mx.DateTime Version 2.0.5 for Python 2.3 and ActivePython
>>>>2.3.2. 
>>>>
>>This case is a citation from the original post from 2002. My
>>actual problem is with "Nov 2003" which is converted to a date
>>in November 2004. And I think what P. Hansen cited from the
>>mx.DateTime documentation in his original posting is equally
>>valid here: 
>>
> But the answer is likely to be similar, isn't it? After parsing Nov 
> 20 (expecting a particular day), the next character is not a valid 
> separator, so the parsing stops and the current year is inserted. 
> What date are you expecting, given only a month and year? Or are you 
> expecting November 20, 2003? Asking the parser to distinguish which 
> of two interpretations of "2003" you mean seems a little demanding.
> 
I never thought about the "20" being interpreted as the day (possibly 
made my experiments on the 20. of some month and thought the current day 
was taken as well as the current year), because the day isn't given and 
I don't need it in the application. And of course "November 20" is no 
familiar date form in german speaking countries. Your explanation makes 
sense, though. On the other hand, 2003 is a 4 digit number which might 
reasonably be expected to be taken as a year.

I just tried to parse some formats for month and year, without a day. I 
would accept every day in the month as correct. The only one I could 
find which parsed correctly (taking 1 as default day) was '2003-11'.

As the dates for my application are _consistently_ given as "<month 
name> <4 digit year>" and Python 2.3 contains time.strptime on Windows, 
my problem is solved anyway.

Thank you,
Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 10:44:09 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:44:09 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <20040324124103.GA23307@frobozz>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<20040324124103.GA23307@frobozz>
Message-ID: <16481.44233.113177.669585@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Andrew> So, your proposal would work equally well (functionally, anyway,
    Andrew> just not look as nice) like this:

    Andrew> class C:
    Andrew>     def foo(self, other):
    Andrew>         ...
    Andrew>     foo = multimethod(Matrix, Matrix)(foo)

    Andrew>     def foo(self, other):
    Andrew>         ...
    Andrew>     foo = multimethod(Matrix, Vector)(foo)

    Andrew> Which is to say, I don't understand how that can work -- the
    Andrew> first definition of foo gets clobbered.

    Andrew> You *could* have a global registry that's keyed off func_name,
    Andrew> as you suggest, but that doesn't work in general... what if I
    Andrew> later have:

    Andrew> class C2:
    Andrew>     def foo(self, other):
    Andrew>         ...
    Andrew>     foo = multimethod(Long, String)(foo)

    Andrew> How is the registry not going to help distinguish between the
    Andrew> foo methods from C, and the foo methods from C2?

By keying the dispatch table on (foo, Matrix) or (foo, Long).  Note that
your classes (C and C2) make no sense given that the first parameter to the
multimethod() calls are Matrix and Long, respectively.

Skip



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 22:45:36 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:45:36 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
In-Reply-To: <u526c.26643$Pa7.684312@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
	<Ky%5c.26184$Pa7.671188@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<Ze6dncncZq9qCcXdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<u526c.26643$Pa7.684312@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <c3b66l$fpu$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Not particularly.  Although long and float are obviously different types, I
> suspect that most people who say that they do not expect comparisons between
> different types to work, they do expect comparisons to work consistently
> between integers and floating-point values.

That is only because floats, integers and longs all represent numbers. 
It makes sense to most people to compare numbers.

  - Josiah


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Mar  8 15:09:10 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 20:09:10 +0000
Subject: Mailing list hosting?
References: <8765dhd2dr.fsf@pobox.com>
	<mailman.94.1078651671.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d67ncd95.fsf@pobox.com>

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:
[...]
> > Anyone know a good alternative for free mailing list hosting?
> 
> There are some sourceforge alternatives, one of which is Savannah
> (savannah.nongnu.org). This is quite strict about licensing, however.
> For more alternatives, look at:
> 
> http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Open_Source/Hosting

Thanks.  I found this list, of which FreeList looks promising:

http://www.emailaddresses.com/email_mailing.htm


John


From M.Waack at gmx.de  Tue Mar 16 15:53:24 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:53:24 +0100
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <536ki1-lp3.ln1@valpo.de>

Roy Smith wrote:
> Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string
> "four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it.  Oddly enough,
> Java (in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at automagic
> polymorphism) will let you add them.  

Thats not true, Java doesn't let you add an integer to a string. It
only looks like that because of implicit type conversion. BTW the
same holds for C++ if you are using a string type which allows this
conversion. 

Mathias


From igouy at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 28 15:23:04 2004
From: igouy at yahoo.com (Isaac Gouy)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 12:23:04 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <ce7ef1c8.0403281223.e3e73b6@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfbrmn635i.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...

> I am of the opinion that (explicit) static typing contributes to the
> bugginess of programs.

Is there a theory for the periodicity of static-checking /
dynamic-checking debates?

A couple of weeks worth has drawn to a close on comp.lang.object 

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=cmos401b4aa3lu33qk6afgs5fg9d16649i%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl3859316027d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D29%26as_minm%3D3%26as_miny%3D1995%26as_maxd%3D12%26as_maxm%3D3%26as_maxy%3D2004%26selm%3Dcmos401b4aa3lu33qk6afgs5fg9d16649i%25404ax.com

The last discussion on comp.lang.functional was back in Nov 2003


From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Mar 10 01:00:02 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 22:00:02 -0800
Subject: Source compile newbie: trying to build Ming (Flash) libs
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0403092200.47027a27@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have installed the GCC minGW compiler, and got ming03-beta1.
On window XP

so I try the Ming How-to Install for python and get the following
...
C:\ming>mingw32-make static
process_begin: CreateProcess((null), uname -s, ...) failed.
make -C src static
process_begin: CreateProcess((null), uname -s, ...) failed.
process_begin: CreateProcess((null), make -C src static, ...) failed.
make (e=2): Le fichier sp?cifi? est introuvable.
mingw32-make: *** [static] Error 2
...

I can't understand what it wants ("Le fichier sp?cifi? est
introuvable" = cannot find file) - What file???

What I'm I supposed to modify??? a path somewhere...???

(this is my pat variable:
PATH=C:\Python23\.;C:\Perl\bin\;c:\ruby\bin;C:\Python22\.;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:
\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\WINDOWS\system32\nls;C:\WINDOWS\system32\nl
s\FRANCAIS;C:\Program Files\Fichiers communs\Adaptec
Shared\System;C:\Program Fi
les\NuSphere\UltraSQL\bin;c:\mingw\bin;c:\mingw32\bin
...)

Thanks in advance,

Jean-Marc
PS
I've read through a previous post on the question but was not able to
figure it out (my lack of source compiling experience, I guess )
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Flash+Ming+group:comp.lang.python.*&hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=d2810a8.0301300436.21a903d3%40posting.google.com&rnum=1


From steve at waypath.com  Tue Mar 30 14:29:51 2004
From: steve at waypath.com (Steve @ Waypath)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:29:51 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-959027.13550629032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-08FC49.15285529032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <IxadnfsAQfpRV_Td38DK-w@speakeasy.net>

There should be a waiting period on posting. Yes, of course it's the other
way.

In practice, when does one use P_NOWAIT and then waitpid(), instead of
P_WAIT? I'm guessing the answer is "if you want to do something between the
spawing and the waiting," but is there a standard use I haven't learned yet?

I'm guessing your reponse will finish this thread. So, thanks again for all
the direction.

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:donn-08FC49.15285529032004 at nntp4.u.washington.edu...
> In article <5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w at speakeasy.net>,
>  "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com> wrote:
> > "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> > news:donn-959027.13550629032004 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
>
> > > spawnv returns a process ID, if you use os.P_NOWAIT.  It returns
> > > the process exit status if you use os.P_WAIT.  If you look at the
> > > code, in os.py, you will see that this second variation is essentially
> > > implemented by applying waitpid() to the first.
> >
> > So, if I'm following this correctly, if I use os.P_NOWAIT, I shouldn't
have
> > to apply waitpid(), no? And, then, I shouldn't have a zombie process if
I
> > use P_NOWAIT, either. Am I getting this?
>
> Well, no, I believe you have it backwards.
>
>    Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Mar 18 07:56:09 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 23:46:09 +1050
Subject: Python,mysql question
References: <a4648036.0403180509.5ce9df39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5j88o.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 18 Mar 2004 05:09:00 -0800, james blair wrote:
> I have a search page & the reults for the search are fetched from the
> database.
> I want that on the results page only first 25 results are shown & a
> link "next 25 results" be shown.Same for the 2nd result page.
> How do I do this?

What have you tried?  What were the outcomes of your attempts?

-- 
 \         "Truth would quickly cease to become stranger than fiction, |
  `\                  once we got as used to it."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From wallacethinmintr at eircom.net  Mon Mar 22 09:13:31 2004
From: wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell Wallace)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:13:31 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <405ef463.40371149@news.eircom.net>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:03:09 GMT, "Bootstrap Bill"
<wrcousert at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I was 15 when I got my first computer, a 4k TRS-80 Model I with Level I
>BASIC, cassette tape for storage. It was several years before I could afford
>a system with a floppy drive, let alone a hard drive.. I spent nearly all my
>free time for months teaching myself BASIC programing, mostly trial and
>error. The book that came with my Model I was a great introduction to
>programming.

Those were the days ^.^

>My 13 year old niece wants to learn programming. What's the best
>introductory language for her?

I'd recommend Python as a good introductory language - easy,
intuitive, but definitely not dumbed down.

-- 
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 25 10:48:02 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:48:02 -0700
Subject: Split a string by length
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>
Message-ID: <9qt560lj5rqt8r2j4hd2m6nsm5snvjhrn4@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:14:17 +1200, David McNab
<david at rebirthing.co.nz> wrote:

>Yermat wrote:
>>>> How can I do to simulate this way:
>>>> 'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
>>>> I tried with a 'slice' but this didn't run:
>>>> [item for item in 'aabbcc'[::2]] -> ['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> [...]
>>  >>> import re
>>  >>> re.findall(".{2}","aabbccdd")
>> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd']
>>  >>> re.findall(".{2}","aabbccdde")
>> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd']
>
>Now, who's gonna benchmark these n different approaches?

I'll bite.

>>> import timeit
>>> def tm( setup, snip): timeit.main(['-s', setup, snip ])

>>> # Use regular expression - Yermat
>>> setup = 'import re'
>>> snip = 're.findall(".{2}","aabbccdd")'
>>> tm( setup, snip )
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.5 usec per loop

>>> # List comprehension - works on non-strings also - Eyal Lotem
>>> setup = '''   
>>> def divide(seq, size):
>>>     return [seq[i:i+size]  for i in xrange(0, len(seq), size)]
>>> '''
>>> snip = "divide('aabbcc', 2)"
>>> tm( setup, snip )
100000 loops, best of 3: 4.53 usec per loop

>>> # Move re.compile outside the loop - David MacQuigg
>>> setup = '''
>>> import re
>>> p = re.compile(".{2}")
>>> '''
>>> snip = 'p.findall("aabbccdd")'
>>> tm( setup, snip )
100000 loops, best of 3: 3.52 usec per loop

Note: If you use timeit.py from a command line, you have to be careful
to quote the entire setup sequence.  Otherwise, only the first quoted
statement is used in the setup.  All remaining statements are included
in the test loop.  Compare the results below to the last result above.

timeit.py "-s" "import re" "f = re.compile('.{2}')"
"f.findall('aabbccddee')"
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.43 usec per loop

This is equivalent to:

>>> setup = 'import re'
>>> snip = '''
>>> p = re.compile(".{2}")
>>> p.findall("aabbccdd")
>>> '''
>>> tm( setup, snip )
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.45 usec per loop

-- Dave



From rmb25612 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 02:58:59 2004
From: rmb25612 at yahoo.com (Richard James)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 23:58:59 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60f0e0.0403212358.7b821aad@posting.google.com>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some 
> and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language 
> similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in the 
> wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish 
> language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's basic 
> syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to denote 
> code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic 
> and OO features would still be interesting to me (indeed, it would really have 
> to lose most of the dynamic characteristics in order to make it a compilable 
> language, which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).  Is 
> there such a thing?

Ed, have a look at "The Great Win32 Computer Language Shootout":
http://dada.perl.it/shootout/

It benchmarks 51 different scripted and compiled languages to give you
a feel for relative perfomance:
http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html

And you can look at the source code of 25 different benchmarks in each
of the 51 different languages!

Other languages not on the Shootout list:

Euphoria: If you want to spend a little money (free to try).
The full version generates C source code from Euphoria scripts that
can be compiled for either Windows or Linux!
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/

Also xBLite for Windows looks interesting (a modern BASIC with Windows
GUI):
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xblite/

And Gui4Cli Windows Scripting language. 
http://www.gui4cli.com
You can easily add your own dlls via C compiler or call Python from it
or control other Windows or Dos programs with it.

-- R.J.


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 31 10:55:12 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:55:12 +0200
Subject: How to make this speed up
References: <mailman.142.1080683661.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Yenac.887$bQ3.340@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <406aebfb$0$140$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Carl Banks wrote:

>    def distance(a,b):
>        x = a[0] - b[0]
>        y = a[1] - b[1]
>        z = a[2] - b[2]
>        return sqrt(x*x + y*y + z*z)

This gives a nice speedup (about 2 times). However, using psyco -and
using x*x instead of x**2- results in more than 10 times faster code
on my machine, without losing the option of having a variable number
of dimensions:

from random import uniform
from math import sqrt
from time import time

def random_points(limits,dims,n):
    def u(): 
        return [uniform(*limits) 
            for i in range(dims)]
    return [u() for i in xrange(n)]
        
def distance(a,b):
    d = 0
    for i in range(len(a)):
        x = a[i]-b[i]
        d += x*x
    return sqrt(d)

def compute_distances(plist):
    result = []
    for i in range(len(plist)-1):
        for j in range(i+1,len(plist)):
            result.append(distance(plist[i],plist[j]))
    return result

def test():
    n = 500
    P = random_points([0,1000],3,n)
    t = time()
    D1 = compute_distances(P)
    print time()-t
    import psyco
    psyco.full()
    t = time()
    D2 = compute_distances(P)
    print time()-t
    assert D1==D2

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

output:

4.77999997139
0.389999866486


Anton






From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar 30 15:37:25 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lyck?)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 12:37:25 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <258fd9b8.0403301237.60528600@posting.google.com>

Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message news:<40675F08.9070402 at mlug.missouri.edu>...
> They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one would 
> be pissed off at such a change. 

I don't think you need to worry. AFAIK Python 3 is the mythological
if-I-could-turn-back-the-clock-and-undo-all-my-mistakes version
of Python, which Guido probably won't have time to work with 
until his son is big enough to help him. (He'll be 3 in November.)
It will have little regard for backward compatibility, and if it
does appear sooner than expected, you can expect Python 2.x to be
maintaned in parallel for a long time.


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 13 13:52:43 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:52:43 -0000
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<7xoer1ls3j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c2t87m$ajn$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<7xvfl9hgpz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1056m3rp53idu00@corp.supernews.com>

In article <7xvfl9hgpz.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:
>> Well, it works. They change the password and the script changes it
>> back... try it yourself on Mac OSX 10.3.x, before claiming it doesn't
>> work.
>
>That script can only work if it's running as root, not just owned by
>root.  Why do you want to change the password anyway, if you can
>already run stuff as root?

Paul, I think I can answer that one.  He has users who appear to be
changing root password out from under him.  We all agree there ought
to be a policy against that.  Rathering than dealing with it on the
policy level, Mr. Nessux has alertly observed that cron can be a way
to armor the individual hosts against these troublesome users.  It's
not aesthetic, and most of us don't think we'd take that approach in
his situation, but cron-ing a back-to-before hack seems to meet his
needs.

So:  the short answer might be that the only thing he can run as
root in the situation under consideration is something he's set up
ahead of time, like a cron or at or such.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 19 15:52:08 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 12:52:08 -0800
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<ad052e5c.0403181324.31ea8a36@posting.google.com>
	<c3d4r8$gho$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403191252.45d5f880@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3d4r8$gho$2 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > One way to avoid this problem is to have an explicit scope-creating
> > construct instead.
> > 
> > def foo(a):
> >    scope outer:
> >       a = 3
> >       scope inner:
> >          a = 4
> >          print a            # prints 4
> >          print outer.a      # prints 3
> >          print foo.a        # prints the function parameter
> >       print a               # inner.a is out of scope, so prints 3
> >       foo.b = 5             # Creates a new function-scope variable.
> >    print b                  # prints 5
> 
> Ick.  Thank god Python doesn't seem to be heading in this direction.

I agree.  Just because this was my idea doesn't mean I have to like it ;-)

I'm satified with the scope rules the way they are, except for list comprehensions.


From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Fri Mar  5 23:21:26 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 20:21:26 -0800
Subject: python bnf somewhere?
Message-ID: <a8623416.0403052021.6e1a07f1@posting.google.com>

Hey everyone, sorry to bug people, but I remember seeing a nice
complete BNF for python somewhere in the documentation but I can't for
the life of me find it anymore.  Anyone have a link?


From fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 07:02:55 2004
From: fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk (DomF)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:02:55 -0000
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2kt5q$1uonf0$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1078921034.4651.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>

"William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:c2kt5q$1uonf0$2 at ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Oliver Kurz <olku at web.de> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list
without using eval or exec?
> >
> > The string looks like:
> >
> >
'[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc"
,"abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'
> >
> > and should be converted to a list:
> >
> > [['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], 'abc'], ['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'],
['abc', ['abc', 'abc']], 'abc'], 'abc']
> >
> > I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.
>
> - write to a file
> - load the file as module :-)

This made me laugh out loud after reading all the heavy duty parsing
options, is that bad?

Dom

>
> -- 
> William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> Linux solution for data processing and document management.




From boober95 at rogers.com  Sat Mar 13 01:02:04 2004
From: boober95 at rogers.com (Bill)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:02:04 GMT
Subject: Python Win32 and Active Directory
Message-ID: <wtx4c.23289$iDG1.15946@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Has anyone tried using Active Directory thru the Python Win32 API?

I want to authenticate to AD and tried the simple example in the online 
docs for 'opends' but alway get 'AD' is an undefined symbol.  I may have 
missed something obvious, but I sure can't see what it is :-(

/bill



From me at me.com  Mon Mar 22 12:54:59 2004
From: me at me.com (Jason Sewall)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:54:59 -0500
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <c3m6lf$hmh$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.136.1079633391.742.python-list@python.org>
	<480e9240.0403181909.741abfa8@posting.google.com>
	<c3i6at$ei$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<105skus763ms4bf@corp.supernews.com>
	<c3m6lf$hmh$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <105ua3jmpkdd524@corp.supernews.com>

I was out of town for a few days and thus had to rely on Google's only 
okay support for news. When I get a moment, I'll be working on a 
real-deal version of the algorithm and worry about optimization.

I understand your suggestion about the complex number. It's probably a 
good idea and it is reminiscent of quaternions (although in the plane).

I'll let you know,

Jason

Peter Otten wrote:
> Jason Sewall wrote:
> 
> 
>>It's affine for the one-line-pair case, but the full algorithm actually
>>uses n line pairs to describe a nonlinear transformation. Since the
> 
> 
> Would you care to post a small driver program (if feasible)? I'd like to try
> the "complex numbers as points" approach on it.
> 
> 
>>transformations are weighted for each pair, the matrix solution doesn't
>>cut it for the general case.
>>
>>Of course, since I didn't mention it, you wouldn't have known that -
>>sorry.
> 
> 
> No problem.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 


From sandip at linux-delhi.org  Wed Mar  3 12:58:48 2004
From: sandip at linux-delhi.org (Sandip Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:28:48 +0530
Subject: Python Event in India ..
In-Reply-To: <5cc5bb23.0403030507.120598f6@posting.google.com>
References: <5cc5bb23.0403030507.120598f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ovihh1-r2r.ln1@pluto.home>

Somesh Bartakkay wrote:
> Am basically from India - Pune.
> here is very less (say NO) Python AwareNess ..
> so i wanna increase it..
> am trying in my own way but for making it in VERY proffesional manner
> and on very HIGH level ...its necessary to arrange Python Event here.
> 
> shall anyone guide me how it is possible ?
> Python Even in INDIA will surely PAY gr8 brains to Python Community
> ...

There is a Indian Zope and Python Users Group web site 
(http://www.izpug.org/), with a mailing list at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/izpug/. However it has never been active 
of late. How about working to make that a success?? :)

Join the linux-india-programmers at sourceforge.net mailing list at 
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-programmers . 
This list is language (and even platform) agnostic, and there are quite 
a group of good python programmers here.

- Sandip


-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
sandip (at) puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
Work: http://www.puroga.com        Home: http://www.sandipb.net

GPG: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 17 15:15:31 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:15:31 +0100
Subject: how best to iterate i times ?
References: <Yl16c.298$1r6.18@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c3abl3$vma$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Randall Smith wrote:

> So, question is:  What is the efficient, elegant, pythonic way to
> iterate with integers?

The standard way is to use xrange() instead of range(). If you are
interested only in the repetition, not the numbers, you can also use
itertools.repeat(). Let's see what is fastest:

(1)
for i in xrange(N):
    pass

(2)
for _ in repeat(None, N):
    pass

$ timeit.py "for i in xrange(100000): pass"
100 loops, best of 3: 1.09e+04 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"from itertools import repeat" "for i in repeat(None, 100000):
pass"
100 loops, best of 3: 5.73e+03 usec per loop


Peter


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 25 08:57:27 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:57:27 -0500
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403250455.6c6f882f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1065par4fbb094b@news.supernews.com>


"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403250455.6c6f882f at posting.google.com...
> Here is an useful reference (including a Python implementation of
> the Condorcet method):
>
> http://electionmethods.org/
>
>   Michele Simionato

Thanks to you and Eric for the references.

John Roth




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 11 20:04:43 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:04:43 -0800
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40507a4e$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <40510CAB.947B1DD0@alcyone.com>

Curzio Basso wrote:

> Is this a joke or what?
> 
> In mathematics people DO agree on the order:
> 
> if a:B->A and b:X->B, then a??b:X->A and
> (a??b)(x)=a(b(x))

No; both notations are used.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Your theory is not right; it is not even wrong.
    -- Wolfgang Pauli


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 05:59:02 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:59:02 +0000
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
	<du71xnjvptq.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <116060ler85o8u8e2tjn9rjp3j7ocp3d3q@4ax.com>

On 23 Mar 2004 12:08:01 +0200, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com>
wrote:

>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>    Stephen> It just occurred to me that if decorators really catch
>    Stephen> on, there could be cases where they are applied
>    Stephen> repeatedly to many functions, and possibly with many
>    Stephen> decorators. Combine that with many (and variable numbers
>    Stephen> of) parameters per function and readability could be
>    Stephen> seriously hit.
>
>d = publishdecorator
>
>def f() [d]:
>        pass

Do we really want people writing...

d = lambda x : staticmethod (someotherdecoration (whateverdeco (x))

def f() [d] :
  pass


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Fri Mar 26 17:49:01 2004
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:49:01 -0500
Subject: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. -
	BayesianFilter detected spam
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20E01@pippin.int.etrials.com>

>>
You might find my weird little bits module helpful to take your floating
point values in python apart in order to send them around.

     http://members.dsl-only.net/~daniels/bits.html
<<

Could you demonstrate this?

Lets say I have my 8 bytes representing an IBM360 (BigEndian) double number :

bytes =  'B\x9b\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00' #155

and I know the format of the number is :

SEEEEEEEMMMM ......... MMMM

Sign bit, 7 bit exponent, 56 bit fraction. Exponent is
excess 64. The fraction is multiplied by a power of 16 of
the actual exponent. Normalized floating point numbers are
represented with the radix point immediately to the left of
the high order hex fraction digit.

How would I decode this to my IEEE number? This isn't it but would it look something like :

import struct
import bits

bytes =  'B\x9b\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00' #155
l = struct.unpack('>Q',bytes)[0]

sign = bits.bit(l,63)
exponent = bits.extract(l,56,62) - 64
mantissa = bits.extract(l,0,55)

print [1,-1][sign] * (16**exponent) * mantissa 

?








-----Original Message-----
From: Scott David Daniels [mailto:Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org]
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:39 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. -
BayesianFilter detected spam


Jeff Epler wrote:
> Here's one page I found with an explanation of how more standard
> floating-point numbers are stored:
>     http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/Floating_Point_Numbers.html
> The most important difference between the IEEE formats and the IBM
> format is that the radix is 16 instead of 2.  I think there's also a
> terminlogy error--the page says that the significand (mantissa) is
> stored in "two's compliment binary", but this isn't true.  It's
> unsigned.  The sign is stored separately.
Actually, a common trick is to use "two's complement binary" on the 
entire word, not simply the mantissa.  Then the same hardware can be
used to negate integer and floating values.  The way you take apart
negative numbers is (1) record the sign, and (2) take the absolute value 
of the whole thing (3) breaking exponent and mantissa out.

You might find my weird little bits module helpful to take your floating
point values in python apart in order to send them around.

     http://members.dsl-only.net/~daniels/bits.html

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 19 14:30:13 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:30:13 -0500
Subject: static variables?
References: <mailman.167.1079721766.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105milac2usboea@news.supernews.com>


<niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu> wrote in message
news:mailman.167.1079721766.742.python-list at python.org...
> How can I have a static variable in a python class in a similar fashion as
I
> have them in Java?
> I just want a share the same information in all the instances of a class
and if
> one of the instances changes this information, the rest of them will
notice the
> changes.
> I've been looking for this for a while and I'll appreciate your help
> Niurka

The easiest way is to simply define it in the class, and
then always qualify it by the class when doing an assignment.

class foo:
    bar = "xyzzy"

    def it(self, new):
       foo.bar = new

HTH

John Roth
>
>




From bscholln at mac.com  Sun Mar  7 22:38:24 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:38:24 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>
	<roy-F3D505.13543307032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<71tm409egnua4ncic1siadnk7fi9rqnp8e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <070320042238234451%bscholln@mac.com>

In article <71tm409egnua4ncic1siadnk7fi9rqnp8e at 4ax.com>, Stephen Horne
<steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> If you say so. But in reality, but returning a function pointer to a
> function that is immediately going to call that function pointer,
> you're basically just faking the effect of a goto anyway.
> 
> Implementing a state machine using gotos (in those extremely rare
> cases where it is an option) does not damage readability or
> maintainability. Implementing a transition as 'return statefn;' or as

That really depends...

Goto's do have their places, and as I say, everything in moderation.

If you use Goto's, do yourself a big favor, and DOCUMENT... DOCUMENT,
and DOCUMENT!

The significant difference that I believe your forgetting is simply,
using a "switchboard" function or module, allows you to clearly have
a defined start, and end position in the code...

What do I mean?  (If I wasn't clear)

Using a function call, and a return statement (or just a implied return)
allows you to know *immediately* where the code will return to.  (The
next statement after the function call)

A goto jump to somewhere else in the code, will take you to the "jump
point", but where will you return to?

You then have to parse the function and find out where you are going to
go next.  There is no clear structure.

This has it's advantages, but I feel that the disadvantages out weight
the advantages...

It may be a little bit more work to find a better way to code around
the need for a goto.  But, it will force you to write cleaner code.

If you can not find a alternative to a GOTO statement, you may need to
re-examine your concept/structure, and see if there is a alternative
structure that you may have missed.

         - Benjamin


From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Sun Mar  7 00:24:27 2004
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 05:24:27 GMT
Subject: Incompatibility between psyco 1.2 and pythonwin?
Message-ID: <fmy2c.51240$6c5.22645@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

I just downloaded psyco 1.2 and it seems to work fine with IDLE.  But it 
crashes out of Pythonwin with a message: 'pythonwin.exe has generated 
errors and will be closed by windows'.  It crashes after I type the line
  'psyco.full()' and hit return.

I am running PythonWin 2.3.3 on a Windows 2000 PC.

david lees



From nholtz at docuweb.ca  Sun Mar  7 08:16:18 2004
From: nholtz at docuweb.ca (Neal Holtz)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 05:16:18 -0800
Subject: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class
References: <c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <639f17f8.0403070516.5f59c960@posting.google.com>

noelrivera at excite.com (fossil_blue) wrote in message news:<c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1 at posting.google.com>...
> Why we can't define a list as a private variable in a class such as 
> 
> __SYMTAB = [ ]
> 
> class Myclass:
>       def __init__(self):
> 		#some constructor here
>      
>       def __PlayWithList(arg1):
> 	# This doesn't work it compains about not having not having attribute
> index or append
> 	# Why?
> 	try: self.__SYMTAB.index(arg1)  
> 	except ValueError: self.__SYMTAB.append(arg1)
>    
> But it the list was public SYMTAB = [ ] it would work. Why?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Noel

Because of 'Private name mangling' (identifiers beginning with '__' and not ending
in '__' are considered private to the class) ?

See
               http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/ref/atom-identifiers.html


From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Fri Mar  5 08:32:27 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:32:27 -0500
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
Message-ID: <c29vhr$up$1@sea.gmane.org>

David McNab wrote:
> My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the 
> name of PMW.


Have you also tried wxPython?  I'm not advocating, just want to know if you've 
also tried "the other one".  :)  What does PMW do for Tkinter?  I've seen 
opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than (standard) Tkinter, but I've 
never seen PMW mentioned before when comparing the two.  If you've used 
wxPython previously, how does Tkinter+PMW compare to it?  Anyone?




From garryknight at gmx.net  Sat Mar  6 19:39:42 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 00:39:42 +0000
Subject: Utterly OT:[Was Re: Need better string methods]
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<Xns94A4C17566601rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <1078619981.9471.0@echo.uk.clara.net>

In message <Xns94A4C17566601rzed at 63.223.5.95>, rzed wrote:

> This "gradoo" of which you speak ... where did you learn the word? I
> only ask, because I know (and use) "gradeau", pronounced like I
> imagine "gradoo" would be pronounced, to mean miscellaneous cruft or
> garbage

For your interest:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gradeau
"gradeau        
    anything nasty that is small and slimy on you or anything else, ie., eye
slime from a dog or mucous of any sort
    ewww, there's gradeau on my arm ewww"

http://www.collectivecopies.com/informative.htm
"Funky Gradoo
Colorful Southern term for schmutz (Yiddish), crud (Yankee) or other
unwanted marks, spots or streaks on a copy."

[And now, back to your regular programming...]

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From willyruff at raylan.de  Thu Mar  4 11:13:38 2004
From: willyruff at raylan.de (Willy Ruff)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:13:38 +0100
Subject: Unsubscibe
Message-ID: <NEEFJHDPBGAODCBNJFJDKEIICAAA.willyruff@raylan.de>

Please unsubscibe me from the List!

I`m in the german List!

Thanks!

My Email: willyruff at raylan.de





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar 15 12:33:04 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:33:04 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040315173304.GB2446@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:49:58 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:
> >You'd have to disable the integer free list.  There's also code in
> >tupleobject.c to recognize and share the empty tuple.  String interning
> >could be disabled as well.  Everybody's ignored the gorilla in the room:
> >
> >    >>> sys.getrefcount(None)
> >    1559

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 10:15:33AM -0700, David MacQuigg wrote:
> Implementation detail.  ( half wink )

I'd round that down from half to None, personally.

This is guaranteed to work:
    x = None
    y = None
    assert x is y
by the following text in the language manual:
        None
            This type has a single value. There is a single object with
            this value. This object is accessed through the built-in
            name None.  It is used to signify the absence of a value in
            many situations, e.g., it is returned from functions that
            don't explicitly return anything. Its truth value is false.
There are reams of code that rely on the object identity of None, so a
special debug mode where "x = <some literal>" makes x refer to something
that has a refcount of 1 will break code.

The 'is' guarantee applies to at least these built-in values:
    None Ellipsis NotImplemented True False

The only problem I can see with reload() is that it doesn't do what you
want.  But on the other hand, what reload() does is perfectly well
defined, and at least the avenues I've seen explored for "enhancing" it
look, well, like train wreck.

Jeff



From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 14 19:56:02 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:56:02 +1300
Subject: loop scope
In-Reply-To: <tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> now simply add list comprehensions (or
> loops), and you will maintain perfect consistency of treatment of
> local variables,

It wouldn't do to make the whole (non-comprehension)
for-loop a new scope, because that would make any
variables assigned within the loop body local as well.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar  7 15:54:17 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:54:17 -0500
Subject: no inline comments
References: <f20ea932.0403071013.2d5e734c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104n33bggnlvgc3@news.supernews.com>

"Tomasz Stochmal" <tom at peresys.co.za> wrote in message
news:f20ea932.0403071013.2d5e734c at posting.google.com...
> Hi
>
>
> I have been using Python for the past 2 years in commercial environment
>
> One lacking feature is inline comments like in C /* this is comnment */
>
> What is a chance of introducing it to next release of Python ?

To get something like that into Python you need to

1) get some enthusiasm behind it here

2) submit a proposal (called a PEP) with a use
case that shows that the feature is worth more than
the code needed to make it work,

and 3) submit the code.

My own personal feeling goes along with the XP
crowd.  A comment is a slight code smell: it says that
the code itself is not as expressive as it needs to be.

There are times when a comment is undoubtedly
justified, but I'd be more inclined to ask whether I
could fix the code so I didn't need the comment,
rather than whether I could fix the language so I could
comment better.

John Roth

>
>
> Regards,
> Tom




From daniel at syrinx.net  Mon Mar 22 10:27:43 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:27:43 -0500
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
References: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<QX36c.26341$%06.21748@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<105hkcg5796il98@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c3n0je$29q7r2$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:105hkcg5796il98 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
> news:QX36c.26341$%06.21748 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Thanks to both of you. I'm very much a Python newbie and the ability to
> make
> > things callable wasn't addressed too well/at all in either of the Python
> > books I'm learning from.
> >
> > Are there any good pages for RPG related items in Python? Everything
I've
> > seen so far has been first-person shooter type stuff. And coming from a
> > BASIC background, I'm falling back on some of that coding style when I
> know
> > there's a better way.
>
> For general interactive fiction, see the rec.arts.int-fiction newsgroup
> and check out the periodic FAQ posting. There are two Python
> interactive fiction systems: PAWS (Python Adventure Writing System)
> and PUB (Python Universe Builder). Neither one is very popular, but they
> may give you some ideas.
>
> John Roth
> >

There's also MOOP (MUD, Object-Oriented, Pythonic) originally by the same
author as PUB, Joe Strout: http://moop.sourceforge.net/




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 07:16:51 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:16:51 -0000
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
	<4im76054evpqbgkk2ja96rq66t1rm9r2uk@4ax.com>
	<c4393i$gbr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <106as5joq2o4n93@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4393i$gbr$1 at news.service.uci.edu>,
Josiah Carlson  <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:
>> Multithreading will not help this sequence unless (A) you have multiple
>> processors, or (B) the processing in bar() needs to wait for something.  If
>> bar() is CPU bound, you would get the same performance by just executing
>> sequentially.
>
>It is even worse than that.  In windows, Python is really a single 
>process, and no amount of threading is going to let one instance of 
>Python use more than 100% of a single CPU.  I'm not sure if this is also 
>the case with linux or OS X.
>
>  - Josiah

Go through this with me.  I agree with your conclusion, and I
don't keep up with Windows engineering.  Moreover, I think it's
important that we educate the masses that multithreading in-
herently *slows* operations on a single CPU.  However, I was
sure that Windows *does* include the ability to distribute
intraprocess native threads across SMP.  Am I misreading you?
Are you making the point that Python's use of Windows threads
only provides for concurrency between, in practice, one I/O
and one computational operation?  
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From http  Mon Mar 22 10:42:37 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 07:42:37 -0800
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405f0803$0$15618$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> It depends on what you regard as a 'standard library'. For me it is
> the minimum required to use the language in a general sense. The
> smallest subset of all the possible modules. Thus access to the file
> system is a requirement but Encryption, DNS, Database, etc are not.

Python advertises a "batteries included" approach to the library which
means it's supposed to include most of the stuff that users need,
instead of making them download the stuff from random places.  

> Unless the code is perfect it will require maintainance and testing as
> Python grows. As the standard library grows the amount of testing
> grows with it, and it is probably not linear.
> 
> This alone would be a reason to keep the standard library small.

Python aims to be competitive with other languages and implementations
including (e.g.) Java, which come with large libraries.  Unless it
wants to retreat from aiming for the big time, it needs to also have
thorough library coverage, even if that means more work.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Mar 16 06:52:48 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 03:52:48 -0800
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
References: <20040315214043.2814f549.benoit.merouze@epita.fr>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0403160352.7554d355@posting.google.com>

ben- <benoit.merouze at epita.fr> wrote in message news:<20040315214043.2814f549.benoit.merouze at epita.fr>...
> I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
> Are there libraries for this ?
> 
> If someone have advices to give, I'm interested !

There are three approaches to this:

1) If you have a machine with Excel installed, you can
   use pywin32 to automate the application to extract
   cells or ranges or to save the data as CSV or XML etc.

2) If you are in a position to do so, you could require
   that the originator of the data (might be you) save
   it as CSV or XML or some other format which Python can
   easily read. Obviously, you might lose information
   that way: depends on what the requirement is.

3) You can investigate the work done by others on the
   Excel file format and do something equivalent in
   Python, or wrap an existing solution.

   See: http://chicago.sourceforge.net/devel/docs/excel/

   Don't know how difficult this might be, but
   if you did it you'd not only answer your own question,
   but you'd also be able to respond to future requests
   by saying: look at http://...

HTH
TJG


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Thu Mar 11 17:05:41 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:05:41 +0000
Subject: ANN: PyQt v3.11 Released (Python Bindings for Qt)
Message-ID: <200403112205.41073.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

Riverbank Computing is pleased to announce the release of PyQt v3.11 available 
from http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/.

Changes since the last release include support for Qt v3.3.1, and the addition 
of the QLocale, QIconDragEvent and QSocketDevice classes.

PyQt is a comprehensive set of Qt bindings for the Python programming language 
and supports the same platforms as Qt.  Like Qt, PyQt is available under the 
GPL (for UNIX, Linux and MacOS/X), a commercial license (for Windows, UNIX, 
Linux and MacOS/X) and a free educational license (for Windows).

PyQt is implemented as a set of 9 extension modules containing 300 classes and 
over 5,750 functions and methods.

PyQt also includes bindings to QScintilla, the port to Qt of the Scintilla 
editor component.

PyQt can be used either as a rapid prototyping tool, or as an alternative to 
C++ for developing large Qt applications.

PyQt includes the pyuic utility which generates Python code to implement user 
interfaces created with Qt Designer in the same way that the uic utility 
generates C++ code.

Third party tools are also available - such as eric3, a comprehensive IDE 
(including an editor, debugger, class browser, integration with Qt Designer, 
re-factoring tools, unit testing tools and integration with source code 
control systems).  eric3 is written entirely using PyQt and is available from 
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html.



From tim at zope.com  Tue Mar  2 21:25:27 2004
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:25:27 -0500
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
In-Reply-To: <c22okq$ua$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFAJEAB.tim@zope.com>

[Emile van Sebille]
> ...
> At this point, I won't be back to that site before next week, although
> I may take some time to test this weekend.  It sounds like I should
> rework any areas that spew output to the console.  Is there something
> better than checking os.path.basename(sys.executable)?

You could use the logging module all the time instead of trying to make the
destination conditional on the executable name.  Bad errors should probably
be reported to the Windows Event Log service too; doing a serious job of
making a thing a Windows Service is painful.




From http  Thu Mar  4 00:28:18 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Mar 2004 21:28:18 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns94A2302DB4BC7JanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <7xsmgpgozx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> writes:
> You're sure about all that?
> 
> What's all this stuff then:
> <http://pear.php.net/>
> <http://smarty.php.net/>
> <http://phptal.sourceforge.net/>
> <http://rwfphp.multispan.com/>
> <http://www.phpmvc.net/>
> <http://www.dreammask.com/PHITE.php?sitesig=PT>

Looks like a bunch of PHP packages whose existence you can safely
ignore if the default stuff does what you need, as it does for most
users.

Sooner or later I hope there will be default web packages included
with Python, but until that happens, you have NO CHOICE but to go find
something on the net that might or might not fill your needs.


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar 11 07:15:39 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:15:39 +0100
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>

David MacQuigg schrieb:
> Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
> break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python,
[...]
> @x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function

Advantage of your proposal:

- easy to extend the language without breaking existing code.

Disadvantages of your proposal:

- The advantage is also a disadvantage: a lowered barrier for
   new semantics could bloat the language definition. Python's
   strength is that it has *few* concepts that are usable in *many*
   places. This could be compromised by your proposal.

- Python is a readable language. lambda says "function literal",
   yield says "generator", @ just says "different". Python would
   be less readable if this notation would be adopted.

Therefore I vote against it.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From mok at imsb.au.dk  Sun Mar 21 16:35:15 2004
From: mok at imsb.au.dk (Morten Kjeldgaard)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:35:15 +0100
Subject: Graph Problems (was Re: Is there a map or graph module?)
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
	<c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<75200cbc.0403190755.5765890a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.21.21.35.15.319436@imsb.au.dk>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:55:23 -0800, Lilith wrote:

> Guido's example works fine when I use his simple graph. When I plug in
> my 9000-node graph, I get those problems even if the nodes are a few
> steps away. I think my network is too big for that code.

Any Python implementation is going to be extremely slow. You need to
google for kjbuckets, which is a C extension to Python by Aron Watters. It
is extremely effictient, even with 9000 nodes. If you can use RPMS, look
in my ftp directory:

ftp://xray.imsb.au.dk:/pub/python/packages/Python2.1/RPMS

Good luck,
Morten

-- 
Morten Kjeldgaard                                
Department of Molecular Biology   
Aarhus University                                
Gustav Wieds Vej 10 C, DK-8000 Aarhus C, Denmark 



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar  3 09:52:20 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:52:20 +0100
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
In-Reply-To: <rxO%b.17987$mA3.14043@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com>
	<rxO%b.17987$mA3.14043@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c24rdk$dj0$1@swifty.westend.com>

CountScubula schrieb:
> You also need to look at what each language was desgined for, sure I can
> write a dynamic web page in bash or korn, but why?  Perl was written to do
> large extraction and reporting of text files, Python was written as a server
> language

I don't think so. It seems Python was written as a rapid development
language without a specific application range. That's an advantage
because you can get a lot of different jobs done very well. That's
a disadvantage because there's no no-brainer like "Python is for ...".

A family of marketing phrases comes into mind:

- Python is NOT for device drivers.
- Writing a device driver? Beware of Python!
- OS kernels? Don't even think of Python!
...

:)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 02:51:44 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:51:44 -0700
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.320.1079113077.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<87y8q52pvb.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4052BD1F.B8190E0D@pobox.com>

"Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote:
> When IDLE uses its subprocess, the intent is that there are two
> separate processes, each with a Tkinter application running.  One is
> the user's, the other is the IDLE GUI's.  This should work as well as
> the example in the previous paragraph.

Running a Tkinter app in the subprocess works, you just can't debug it
if it runs long enough to get into its mainloop.

> When IDLE doesn't use a subprocess, the user's Tk gets mixed with
> IDLE's, and it's not surprising things fail.
> 
> For me, on OpenBSD, Linux, and W2K, using the subprocess: if I use
> self.quit, the Dialog becomes unresponsive because the mainloop has
> been exited.  But the advertised action on mainloop exit is to destroy
> any remaining widgets, and that's not happening.  If I restart the
> shell, the Tk widget is destroyed correctly.

Where did you see that "advertised"?  quit() does nothing but cause the
innermost mainloop() to exit, and exiting a mainloop() does nothing
other than no longer processing events.  mainloops()s can be nested,
they CAN'T have side-effects like that!  If you exit without somehow
calling destroy() on all your toplevels, it's the OS's process
termination cleanup that kills the rest of them, as far as I can tell. 
And of course IDLE's subprocess doesn't terminate just because your
Python code finished.

It would appear that IDLE needs to detect that the user program is using
Tkinter (by importing Tkinter itself and overriding mainloop?), and in
that case switch to a different strategy for handling communication with
the main IDLE process - a routine that constantly reschedules itself via
after(), most likely.  The problem is the initial RPC request that runs
the user program: I'm pretty sure that the shell window is going to be
non-responsive until it receives the reply, which isn't going to happen
until the program exits.
	Jason Harper


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 23 20:46:23 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:46:23 -0500
Subject: py files includings each others
References: <AL48c.32121$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <1061q52ke6rjsad@news.supernews.com>

"Nicolas Bouillon" <bouil at bouil.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:AL48c.32121$zm5.13267 at nntpserver.swip.net...
> Hi
>
> I have a big problem while including file.
> I have more that twenty classes, with one py file per class (more clear
> & clean), and the following test case illustrate well my problem. I
> facts, files including each other before the name of the classes seems
> to be defined, so python fails...
>
> Can you help me to resolve that ?

Circular import dependencies don't work the way a
lot of people think they do.

What happens is very simple, but you have to trace
the actual execution to see it.

When you hit an import, the module is imported
and initialized, and then the loading of the first module
continues. This is obvious, right? What's not obvious
is that Python puts a reference to the new module in
it's internal import table *before* the module has
been completely initialized.

Now, if the second module contains an import of the
first module, Python sees the module in the import
table and creates a reference to it, and then returns
immediately. The second module then sees the ***partially loaded***
version of the first module. Nothing past the import
statement has been loaded yet.

Note that it has to do this: otherwise it would either
deadlock on a partially loaded module, or it would
have to fail the second import.

The only time this matters if there is something in the
second module that depends on the unloaded part
of the first module *while it is being loaded*. For
the most part, this is subclasses looking for their
parent class definitions.

There are a number of ways around this. The
"best" solution is, of course, to eliminate the
circular dependency. Another solution is to
move the import statements around. Another
is to put more than one class in a module.
If you can't eliminate the logical dependency,
then do a two phase initialization so that you
can eliminate the circular dependency at load
time, and do the rest of the linkages after the
program is loaded.

Hope this helps.

John Roth





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar 22 18:29:28 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:29:28 -0600
Subject: XML attributes have wrong name
In-Reply-To: <71767983FD626146999FBFFF445390EE03B6E0@seabass.tripwire.com>
References: <71767983FD626146999FBFFF445390EE03B6E0@seabass.tripwire.com>
Message-ID: <20040322232928.GB7966@unpythonic.net>

It would help if you supplied a complete program or interactive shell
session.

I tried to guess what you were doing but I didn't reproduce the problem:

$ python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Oct 15 2003, 23:33:35) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030930 (Red Hat Linux 3.3.1-6)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml.dom.minidom as dom
>>> d = dom.Document()
>>> e = d.createElement("node")
>>> e.setAttribute("type", "foo")
>>> e.toxml()
'<node type="foo"/>'

The above comes from an interactive session on Fedora Core 1.

Jeff



From amk at amk.ca  Wed Mar 10 08:08:24 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:08:24 -0600
Subject: Unicode and rdf
References: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9L6dnSQDVMjVjtLdRVn-jA@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:41:30 -0600, 
	Richard West <rwest004 at opti.cgi.net> wrote:
> I'm trying to parse the rdf dumps from dmoz.org (Open Directory
> Project) and am having great difficulty just getting Python to read
> the files.  The files are RDF in UTF-8 encoding according to the
> dmoz.org web site, but I get the following error:

Oh dear.   

Around 2001/2002 I worked on Python code for processing dmoz dumps, but gave
up because the data was so bad -- some categories included content in
various Chinese encodings despite the file's claim to be UTF-8.  I
eventually gave up because debugging a program that fails after running for
six hours is really, really tedious.

It looks like the problems still aren't fixed. The Google-cached version of
rainwaterreptileranch.org/steve/sw/odp/rdflist.html (the page itself is
inaccessible right now) says:

	     Status: Actively being worked on. Autumn has been working on
	     UTF-8 validation code for the editor input forms. sfromis has
	     been manually deleting any reported UTF-8 sequences from the
	     ODP database. I've created a C program that will process data
	     dumps and report details about the errors found that should
	     assist in locating and fixing them. No illegal UTF-8 sequences
	     were present in data dumps between March and July of 2003.
	     After completion of the server hardware upgrade, however, the
	     proliferation of UTF-8 errors has returned.
	     
The same author has a Perl odp2db script at 
http://rainwaterreptileranch.org/steve/sw/odp/ ; you could run that to get a
SQL database version, and then access that version from Python, or at least
look at the code to figure out what kind of hackery is required to actually
parse the dumps.

--amk


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Mar 28 08:52:10 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 05:52:10 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403280552.13cbed2@posting.google.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc6cr9n.dit.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> Cool.  How come this isn't in either the Language Reference or Library
> Reference?  I just skimmed through those looking for special
> class-related methods the other day, when I first started looking at
> prototypes, and didn't notice __subclasses__, and now I can't find it in
> the index. 

Google this newsgroup for __subclasses__. For some reason the 
developers choose not to document it, but it is there and it seems to be
working. Just as curiosity, __subclasses__ is a meta-method, i.e. it
is a method of the metaclass "type" and not a class method of "object".
For this reason "dir" does not show it

>>> class C(object): pass
...
>>> dir(C)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash_
_', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr_
_', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__']

but it is there:

>>> C.__subclasses__()
[]

since it is "acquired" (I don't want to use the word "inherited") from
"type":

>>> dir(type)
['__base__', '__bases__', '__basicsize__', '__call__', '__class__', '__cmp__', '
__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dictoffset__', '__doc__', '__flags__', '__getattrib
ute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__itemsize__', '__module__', '__mro__', '__name
__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str
__', '__subclasses__', '__weakrefoffset__', 'mro']

As you see, mro() is another example of meta-method. I shamelessly remind
to http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pymeta2/
for more info.

         Michele Simionato


From bob.ducharme at lexisnexis.com  Thu Mar 25 21:13:49 2004
From: bob.ducharme at lexisnexis.com (philregion)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 02:13:49 -0000
Subject: simple script using CGIHTTPServer?
Message-ID: <c403kt+5bsh@eGroups.com>

Let's say I've got the following little script called test1.py: 

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
print "<html><body>"
print "<h1>Hello World</h1>"
print "</body></html>"

I want to run a script that takes advantage of CGIHTTPServer so that I
can send a browser to http://localhost:8081/test1.py and see the
results of the script above. What's the shortest such script that I
need to make this work? After some web searching, I found
http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/web-server.py and
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~tb100/project/viewcvs/standalone.py but
couldn't get either to work. 

thanks,

Bob




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar  8 22:42:22 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:42:22 -0800
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.58.1078569258.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.58.1078569258.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2jeka$4jp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

import pprint

outfile = open('filename', 'w')
pprint.pprint(data, outfile)
outfile.close()

infile = open('filename', 'r')
newdata = eval(infile.read())
infile.close()


  - Josiah


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Mar 29 07:29:36 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:29:36 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <ydS9c.58116$cx5.36263@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<ydS9c.58116$cx5.36263@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040329122936.GA1088@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Mark Hahn]
> > Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> > "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)

> It appears we will be bowing to pressure and switching to spaces.

This might be good news.  Despite a bit curious about prototype-based
languages, I initially stopped reading about Prothon when I saw that it
chose mandatory TABs. `make' is the only tool for which I still give in
such things :-).

Allow me a question.  Is there some inter-operability sought between
Prothon and Python?  That could ease taming communities.  As far as I
understood, so far, these are currently meant as incompatible beasts.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From python at rcn.com  Wed Mar 17 04:11:53 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 01:11:53 -0800
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>
	<Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<m2y8qbcxak.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403170111.58403f06@posting.google.com>

[Heather Coppersmith]

> I'm half-tempted to suggest that there be a string.join_as_strings
> method (or something with a more concise name) 

Aahz proposed a builtin join() method to fix this wart.
I'm 100% supportive but am already way over my quota for builtins.


Raymond Hettinger


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar 11 12:03:03 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:03:03 -0800
Subject: File.read() sometimes not reading everything
References: <pan.2004.03.11.10.07.48.456622@arteris.net>
Message-ID: <donn-F7705F.09030311032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <pan.2004.03.11.10.07.48.456622 at arteris.net>,
 "Boris Boutillier" <boris.boutillier at arteris.net> wrote:

> I came across a strange behaviour with read method, and I'm not sure if
> this is a filesystem problem or a misuse of this method.
> I do the simple following thing :
> f = open ('myFile','r')
> content = f.read()
> f.close()
> 
> When I use this lines really intensively sometimes, at random the content
> is not the full content, it lacks some lines at the end.
> When reading the file.read docstring I see that there can be some problems
> with non-blocking file, but I suppose open() is by default creating a blocking
> file.
> 
> Is the file line-buffered by default ? This could be a reason for this
> early EOF, as I'm reading all the lines at once, and there is several
> lines in the file ?

No, a disk file will be block buffered.  Not that it would matter.
Basically, the read method calculates the size of the file and tries
to fread(3) that amount.  The only explanation I can think of (other
than an error somewhere) is a concurrent change to the file.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From eric at zomething.com  Wed Mar 31 11:40:15 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:40:15 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
Message-ID: <20040331084015.423400782.eric@zomething.com>

 
> Have you seen what epydoc produces?  Here is an example:
> 
>   http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/stdlib/
> 


I find this (epydoc) format quite helpful, as it seems a little more thorough.  

I think the std. documentation has its own strong points [http://www.python.org/doc/current/index.html], but would benefit from a built-in (full text) search function; sometimes information is not where I would look for it (finding it assumes knowledge not already absorbed).

A community/wiki aspect would be useful, as it would seem to have a natural dynamic of documenting that which most requires more documentation in practice.

However, I think it would be a great advantage to have one place to look (as already the information is out there, it's just a question of where, and how much time will I need to spend finding it)

EP



From toto at titi.de  Wed Mar  3 14:49:56 2004
From: toto at titi.de (rahuel)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:49:56 +0100
Subject: insertion in lists
References: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c25csj$maf$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Lupe wrote:

> hi,
> 
> I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me to
> be the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining
> of the program.
> 
> if I have:
>         element
> 
>         list [0]
> and want to have list[0][0]
>                  list[0][1]
> 
> how can I insert the element to that list[0][0], for example?
> just to put things clearer, if I wanted to insert the element in list[0] I
> could do list.insert(0,element).
> 
> I've tried list[0].insert(0,element) but gives me an error.
> 
> 
> Luis

Hi Luis,

Are you sure you're trying to code some python ????

To define a list named myList then :
myList=[]

To append myElement to this list :
myList.append(myElement)

That's it

Bye,





From nospam at freeworld.fr  Fri Mar  5 10:31:19 2004
From: nospam at freeworld.fr (Lucas Branca)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:31:19 GMT
Subject: reg exp and octal notation
References: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it>
	<4048938a$0$41754$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <b312c.2624$O31.66196@news4.tin.it>

-- snip --
>> ('\x06\x1cabc',) string from source code

>> ('\\006\\034abc\n',) same string read from file

--snip --
> In other words, the backslashes are seen as literal backslashes.
> readline() does no evaluation of the string, it just copies the
> characters

yeah... you are right guys. I have matched two problems
reg exp are innocents .

Ok. Let's say so:
I have to read each line of a file and strip a particular string from there
(a string containing octal notation too)

the problem is actually the file.readline() that doesn't return
what I was expected to.

pardon my 'newbyeeeee'  but is there a way to read a  line xy from that file
and obtaining:

line xy:       \006\034abc

('\x06\x1cabc',)

 and not every single char in it like now ?
('\\006\\034abc\n',)

(before I start to reinvent the wheel ....... :)  )

Thank you
Lucas




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 02:33:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:33:20 -0800
Subject: extracting order of class' attribute setting = statement
 execution or keyword assignments?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.227.1078933304.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.227.1078933304.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405167C0.7080406@uci.edu>

Check out my cookbook item for a length-limited O(1) LRU Cache/Paging 
implementation.  You can toss the lengh-limititing and reorder-on-read 
semantics to get what you want.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/252524

Below is an implementation that will keep order, which you can easily 
iterate over, pull out a list with keys() or values() or items()...

  - Josiah



class LRU:
     """
     Implementation of a length-limited O(1) LRU queue.
     Built for and used by PyPE:
     http://pype.sourceforge.net
     Copyright 2003 Josiah Carlson.
     """
     class Node:
         def __init__(self, prev, me):
             self.prev = prev
             self.me = me
             self.next = None
     def __init__(self, pairs=[]):
         self.d = {}
         self.first = None
         self.last = None
         for key, value in pairs:
             self[key] = value
     def __contains__(self, obj):
         return obj in self.d
     def __getitem__(self, obj):
         return self.d[obj].me[1]
     def __setitem__(self, obj, val):
         if obj in self.d:
             del self[obj]
         nobj = self.Node(self.last, (obj, val))
         if self.first is None:
             self.first = nobj
         if self.last:
             self.last.next = nobj
         self.last = nobj
         self.d[obj] = nobj
     def __delitem__(self, obj):
         nobj = self.d[obj]
         if nobj.prev:
             nobj.prev.next = nobj.next
         else:
             self.first = nobj.next
         if nobj.next:
             nobj.next.prev = nobj.prev
         else:
             self.last = nobj.prev
         del self.d[obj]
     def __iter__(self):
         cur = self.first
         while cur != None:
             cur2 = cur.next
             yield cur.me[1]
             cur = cur2
     def iteritems(self):
         cur = self.first
         while cur != None:
             cur2 = cur.next
             yield cur.me
             cur = cur2
     def iterkeys(self):
         return iter(self.d)
     def itervalues(self):
         for i,j in self.iteritems():
             yield j
     def keys(self):
         return self.d.keys()



From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar  4 02:05:53 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 23:05:53 -0800
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
References: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.11.1078279424.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403032305.4e640baa@posting.google.com>

[F Jamitzky]
> > Was this intended as a language feature or is this style an
> > "unpythonic"

[Terry Reedy]
> It is intentional that Python give you the flexibility to do things the
> developers never imagined and that most users think a bit wierd or 'over
> the top'.  Playing with things like this is one way to learn, and probably
> more fun than some.

QOTW: Gets my vote for quote of the week.


Raymond Hettinger


From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 06:23:05 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:23:05 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4e9mq$2gcu5j$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael wrote:

> With top posting you're still reading the same way. You shouldn't even 
> need to read the quoted text below. 

Then why waste space and bandwidth and include it?

> It's only there to help keep the 
> structure of the conversation recorded. 

If you need to refresh your memory on the discussion then back up the 
thread and read the previous messages. A whole keypress in most readers.

And that's saying nothing of rendering the information that's given by 
the line count of the posting useless. Many readers display the line 
count with the subject, and that gives you a clue as to how 'heavy' the 
posting is going to be. Just a short rebuttal, a 'me too', or a 
dissertation in it's own right? It's impossible to tell when people 
include the particular version of the King James' bible they're 
commenting on.

As I'm against capital punishement; twentyfive to life for top-posters, 
I say.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:11:38 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:11:38 +1300
Subject: More glossary items
In-Reply-To: <105240nms3cl45f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
	<c2qiuk$rs7$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<i5t1501ljfh9qtks01o5gc5mtbc0looj8n@4ax.com>
	<105240nms3cl45f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c2r9pc$1voigv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> There are other calculi--"quaternion calculus" and "vector 
> calculus" are two not-too-uncommonly-heard ones.

Indeed, in mathematics the word "calculus" really just
means a method of calculating something. It's actually
the Latin word for "stone", presumably dating back to
the time when people used stones as counters when
doing arithmetic.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Mar  3 22:44:10 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 03:44:10 GMT
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A2302DB4BC7JanC@213.119.4.35>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> schreef:

> The very existence of a "multitude" of Python web environments is a
> serious shortcoming of Python as a PHP replacement.  PHP comes with
> one web environment, not a multitude, so you have just one manual to
> read, not a multitude; one codebase to worry about keeping up with the
> latest releases for, not a multitude, and so forth.  You don't have to
> check out and evaluate N different web environments and K different
> database interface packages, and make sure they're all in sync with
> each other whenever you update anything.  PHP's web environment are
> database integration right there for you the moment you install PHP.

You're sure about all that?

What's all this stuff then:
<http://pear.php.net/>
<http://smarty.php.net/>
<http://phptal.sourceforge.net/>
<http://rwfphp.multispan.com/>
<http://www.phpmvc.net/>
<http://www.dreammask.com/PHITE.php?sitesig=PT>

& more: <http://www.google.com/search?q=php+web+framework>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 23 10:29:48 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:29:48 -0500
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>


"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2 at posting.google.com...
> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:<du7n068840d.fsf_-_ at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
> > >>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> >
> >     Skip> It will probably be a BDFL pronouncement.  After all, that's
> >     Skip> why he's the
> >
> > Of course it will - still, that didn't stop us from voting before :-).
>
> Ick! Having passed through PEP 308, I just prefer directly agree with
Guido's
> decision without any votation at all ;)

Half of the 308 problem was because Guido wasn't willing to make a decision.

The other half was the voting method used. It irked me at the
time, but I didn't have the background to do a rational critique;
I just knew up front that the specified conditions would kill the
idea.

I'd support the "Majority Rules" algorithm. See the article in
Scientific American (March, 2004 edition) If you run the
algorithm to generate the whole list (rather than just the top
entry) and regard cycles as ties, then it's got the very pleasant
attribute that if a candidate is placed above another, a majority of
the votes case did, in fact, put those two candidates in that
order.

Cycles are, of course, a problem with that method; you just
have to do something else to break the tie. Almost anything will
do if you filter the ballots to just include the issues/candidates
involved in the tie.

John Roth
>
>  Michele Simionato




From http  Thu Mar 18 08:10:59 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 05:10:59 -0800
Subject: dictionary wart
References: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xr7vquwpo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper Olsen) writes:
> Does python have a way of defining a dictionary default? 
> I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?
> 
> Intuitively I would imagine that
> 
> a={}
> a.set_default(my_default)
> 
> would do this -ie. a[my_new_key] should now return the the default
> value my_default instead of creating an exception. 

No, instead of a[my_new_key] use a.get(my_new_key, my_default).
That does what you want.


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 10:10:02 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:10:02 +0100
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
	<4062EF99.1050802@zope.com>
Message-ID: <fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:

> Ahem, I was hoping for opinions on this idea, either positive or
> negative.  It could make Python better or worse.  I need to know
> whether I should flesh out the proposal more.
>
> I've added some comparisons below.  IMHO this syntax is clearer than
> the syntax proposed for PEP 318, and a little more powerful.
>
> Shane Hathaway wrote:
>> In thinking about PEP 318, I came across an idea that might be worth
>> pursuing further.  It goes deeper than PEP 318, so it would need its
>> own PEP.
>> The idea is to make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions.
>> Expressions using 'def' or 'class' are followed by a code block.
>> Upon evaluation of the expression, the 'def' or 'class' symbol
>> evaluates as the function or class created by the code block.  Only
>> one 'def' or 'class' is allowed per expression.

>>     # Define an interface.
>>     ICustomer = Interface(class):
>>         def get_id():
>>             """Return the customer ID"""
>
> Today, this would be written as:
>
>      class ICustomer:
>          def get_id():
>              """Return the customer ID"""
>      ICustomer = Interface(ICustomer)

With PEP 318 in place, it would be written as:

      class ICustomer [Interface]:
          def get_id():
              """Return the customer ID"""

Hm.

I like the third way best.  Why? The 'Interface(class)' idiom confuses
me.  But maybe I'm infected by the PEP 318 virus.

Thomas




From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Mar 27 22:37:25 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:37:25 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg wrote:
> Playing with Prothon today, I am fascinated by the idea of eliminating
> classes in Python.  I'm trying to figure out what fundamental benefit
> there is to having classes.  Is all this complexity unecessary?

Complexity's ok if it's in the right place - down deep in the heart of
things where you only have to get it right once.  If you simplify the
language, it can push the complexity out to the API level where
everybody has to deal with it.  (However, see
http://www.ai.mit.edu/docs/articles/good-news/subsection3.2.1.html for a
counterargument.)

Ed Suominen just posted a situation where classes and instances need to
be treated separately.  He has a class, "AutoText", with various
subclasses (which I'll call "AutoA", "AutoB", etc. because I forget the
details).  He wants to notice whenever somebody creates a subclass of
AutoText and add it to a list so that he can have an AutoAll function
which creates just one instance of each.  (Or something like that.)

    # all examples below will use the same AutoAll()
    autoall = []
    def AutoAll():
        "Return an instance of each 'class'"
        l = []
        for i in autoall:
            l.append(i())
        return l

In Python, the easiest way to do this is with metaclasses, which is a
really advanced topic.  In Prothon, it's simple to "notice" when a
subclass is created, because __init__ gets called!  So you just say:

    # This is library code - complexity goes here
    AutoText = Base()
    with AutoText:
        def .__init__():
            Base.__init__()
            autoall.append(self)
    
    # Users of the library create new subclasses
    AutoA = AutoText()

    AutoB = AutoText()
    with AutoB:
        def .__init__(someparams):
            # do stuff with someparams
            AutoText.__init__()

The problem with this is that it doesn't work.  In AutoAll(), when you
call i() and create a new instance of AutoText, it adds it to autoall,
so now you have an infinite loop as autoall keeps growing.

So you need to build in some way to distinguish classes to add to
autoall from ones you don't.  Say, a register() method:

    # library code
    AutoText = Base()
    with AutoText:
        # __init__ no longer needed
        def .register():
            autoall.append(self)

    # user code
    AutoA = AutoText()
    with AutoA: .register()

    AutoB = AutoText()
    with AutoB:
        def .__init__(someparams):
            # do stuff with someparams
            AutoText.__init__()
        .register()

That's not all that bad, really - if you ignore metaclasses, the only
way I can think of to do this in standard Python is the same, since you
only have a hook when an object is created, not a class:

    # library code
    class AutoText(Base):
        def register(klass):
            autoall.append(klass)
        register = classmethod(register)
    AutoText.register()

    # user code
    class AutoA(AutoText): pass
    AutoA.register()

    class AutoB(AutoText):
        def __init__(self, someparams):
            # do stuff with someparams
            AutoText.__init__(self)
    AutoB.register()
 
But with metaclasses, you can set a metaclass on AutoText which
automatically registers each subclass as it's created, so that the
explicit register() method can be skipped.

    # library code - the most complex yet
    class AutoRegister(type):
        def __init__(klass, name, bases, dict):
            autoall.append(klass)

    class AutoText(Base):
        __metaclass__ = AutoRegister
        def __init__(self, text):
            Base.__init__(self, tet)

    # user code - the simplist yet
    class AutoA(AutoText): pass

    class AutoB(AutoText):
        def __init__(self, someparams):
            AutoText.__init__(self)

So here's one point where the simplification of prototypes actually ends
up making the user code more complicated than the full Python version.
As a user of that code, you have no reason at all to care about
__metaclass__ and what it does - you just need to know that AutoAll()
magically creates an instance of AutoText and all it's subclasses.

If you ever need to actually look at the definition of AutoText, though,
you'll see this __metaclass__ thing which is a little harder to
understand.  In the simpler version, the basics of the library are
easier, which means if you have to debug it you'll have an easier time,
but you have to keep calling register().  Which complexity is better is
a matter of philosophy.  (In this particular case, I think they're both
pretty good tradeoffs.)

This is obviously pretty specific to Python - most prototype based OO
languages don't have the option of metaclasses.  But someone else said
that prototype-based languages "tend to grow features that mimic
class-based ones", or soemthing like that.  I think this is a good
example.

Joe


From ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com  Fri Mar  5 02:53:16 2004
From: ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 23:53:16 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
	<du7wu60ra10.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <abc4d8b8.0403042353.1b15f8ce@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7wu60ra10.fsf at amadeus.cc.tut.fi>...
> >>>>> "R" == R Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com> writes:
> 
>     R> If you do *programming* without knowing what to pass to a
>     R> function or what a function returns, you're a complete idiot as
>     R> a idiot can be.  Moreover, if you take it as an argument
> 
> Occasionally, in absence of static typing, you might accidentally call
> a function using a return value of another function as an argument and
> they are not compatible. W/ python you notice it immediately; with PHP
> or Perl your program starts behaving weirdly (if you don't check
> return values that is) and you can't pinpoint exactly what went
> wrong. This is what makes people run to statically typed languages,
> believing that all dynamic typing is shoddy like this.
> 
>     R> against PHP, you're yet another ignorant and obviously you
>     R> don't have any rights to speak about PHP nor anything.
> 
> I wasn't really talking about PHP, but the approach you took to attack
> the arguments of OP (arguments which I agree w/ BTW, but that's
> another story).
> 
>     R> Yes, people with functioning brain may already conculded that
>     R> when you posted your previous message itself.
> 
> Previous message? The one you were replying to was the first I posted
> to this thread.

   Obviously, you should know what you're doing
(<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=403fa54b%40news.zianet.com>)
And, please find some time to learn about the error reporting or error
handling mechanism of the languages before throwing your comments.
(Hint: Your comments clearly shows your ignorance in one or more
languages)

   HTH. HAND.

-- 
 From comp.lang.php
 "I don't believe in the God who doesn't give me food, but shows me
heaven!"--Swami Vivekanandha
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 14:43:31 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:43:31 -0800
Subject: Start and control an extern program
In-Reply-To: <kp4qsr5x1i.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<4051087D.1050409@zoran.com>
	<kp4qsr5x1i.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3516l$6i9$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> But what is a timer objekt? Can't find it in my documentation 
> of the python library.

threading.Timer
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/timer-objects.html

  - Josiah


From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Mon Mar 22 23:36:21 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:36:21 -0500
Subject: webbrowser.open_new alternatives for Windows
In-Reply-To: <19804fd8.0403220505.509b6ee2@posting.google.com>
References: <19804fd8.0403220505.509b6ee2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Z8P7c.10691$A_2.608926@news20.bellglobal.com>

Robert wrote:

> how can i open a _NEW_ browser window on Windows ?
> (It should be browser independent. at least for IE, Mozilla &
> Netscape)
> 
> i found a snippet/suggestion for "IE only" in this group but it
> doesn't work, open also in old window:
> 
> 
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
> def start(url):
>     w=Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
>     w.Navigate2(url)
>     w.visible=1
> start("http://www.python.org")
> start("http://www.zope.com")
> 
> 
> 
> Robert

Under Windows, you can use os.startfile() to start the application 
associated with the file extension:

 >>> fname = 'c:/dev/python/_doc/python.html'
 >>> import os
 >>> os.startfile(fname)


You will launch a new browser instance for each os.startfile() and it 
will launch the default browser, whatever it is.

Pierre



From erwin+usenet at andreasen.org  Fri Mar  5 21:13:36 2004
From: erwin+usenet at andreasen.org (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:13:36 +0100
Subject: what is the ordering of an AST tree?
References: <mailman.6.1078071995.21439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87eks6u3hr.fsf@andreasen.org>

"stephene at sjsoft.com" <stephene at sjsoft.com> writes:

>>In my experience ( not  analysis ;)..yes--it's in the same order. Here's
>>the deriver module I ended up with last week, and some unittests which
>>demonstrate that, for simple expressions, at least, order is preserved.
>
> Great. I'm really hoping that that holds true for all cases. For now I'll
> just deal with the simple expressions.
>
> What I am trying to do then is essentially locate the most recent
> assignment that a variable has been given. The way I would assume to do
> that would be to traverse up the tree (assuming it is in fact in the order
> of the program flow) and search for the closest ASSIGN node that involves
> the variable name specified.

You may also have to go "sideways". E.g.:

if x > 42:
  val = True
else:
  val = False


Currently I'm working on some code to do small-scale static type
checking in Python using symbolic interpretation, which is essentially
a process where you do pseudo-evaluation of the code, noting variables
and their types and any problems.

Maybe such a process could also be useful to you, since at the same
time you can also note where each variable is assigned. It's fairly
easy with the help of compiler.visitor.


-- 
===============================================================
<erwin+usenet at andreasen.org>                    Herlev, Denmark     
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>                             <*>   
===============================================================



From noelrivera at excite.com  Mon Mar  1 09:18:11 2004
From: noelrivera at excite.com (fossil_blue)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 06:18:11 -0800
Subject: Regular Expressions in Python
Message-ID: <c7c33240.0403010618.12391181@posting.google.com>

Dear Gurus,

  I am trying to find out how to write an effective regular expression
in python for the following scenario:

   "any number of leading spaces at the beginning of a line" "follow
by a string" "there maybe a string that starts with *"

for example:

  END  *This is a comment

but I don't want to match this:

   END  e * This is a line with an error (e)

thanks,
Noel


From sean_berry at cox.net  Tue Mar 30 01:23:27 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:23:27 -0800
Subject: A couple of Python CGI questions
References: <9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <vn8ac.65426$Bg.61381@fed1read03>

I think I found the answer to my third question.  I found an example using
something like the following.

form = cgi.FieldStorage()
" userid" = form['userid'].value

but should it be "userid" =?
I would think it should be userid =.

Thanks.


"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309 at fed1read03...
> I tried getting mod_python to work but have had lots of problems getting
it
> running.  So, I have settled on using python cgi.
>
> I have already got it going and it seems to run fast enough for me.
>
> My questions are:
> 1.  Is there any way to access variables from within a string like perl
cgi?
> I have found that the best way for me to write html tables is to use a
print
> """<blah blah blah>""" string.  That way I can write one print """, and
then
> write html as if I were writing an html file.  For example:
> print """
> <table border="0" cellspacing="0">
> <tr>
>     <td>This is cool</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> """
> I really like this and it is a lot like typing the following in Perl cgi:
> print <<EOF
> <table border="0" cellspacing="0">
> <tr>
>     <td>This is cool</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> EOF
>
> So, is there any way to access variables from within the string, besides
> using %s?  In perl, I just put the $variable in the string and it replaces
> the varname with the value.
>
> 2.  Is there a good online resourse for pyton cgi?
> 3.  How do you collect request variables from forms sent to the python cgi
> page, whether post or get?
>
>
> Thanks very much for the help... I will continue to google for my answers.
>
> Sean
>
>
>




From timr at probo.com  Fri Mar 26 02:39:15 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:39:15 -0800
Subject: mxDateTime function DateFromString gives wrong year
References: <c3s4r2$2bl6t3$1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tan760la6aejk7ahtus5csfg2rc2pkjif7@4ax.com>

Sibylle Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> wrote:

>This is very nearly a repetition of a post by Peter Hansen from 
>2002-07-07 which never got an answer:
>
> >>> x = mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('Nov 2003')
> >>> x
><DateTime object for '2004-11-20 00:00:00.00' at a61ba0>
>
>Using mx.DateTime Version 2.0.5 for Python 2.3 and ActivePython 2.3.2.
>
>The original posting had the same problem with 'October 29/2000'. This 
>isn't corrected either, it still converts to 2004-10-29.

I'm not convinced that's a bug.  The slash is not a valid separator for
DateFromString once it finds a named month, so the parse terminates there.
It sees "October 29" and assumes the current year.  Replace the slash with
a comma and it will work fine.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From terosaarni at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 22 15:10:37 2004
From: terosaarni at hotmail.com (Tero Saarni)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:10:37 +0200
Subject: Logging with callers filename and line number
Message-ID: <7LH7c.982$i26.470@reader1.news.jippii.net>


I'm using Logging in my library module for producing trace log of
certain events.

For being more useful these log entries should be associated with the 
filename and line number of *users* code that was issuing the library
call.  This is similar to what Logging itself does since it doesn't
print "logging/__init__.py" as value of %(filename) but instead it
prints users file where logging method (info, error...) was called.

What would be the best way to achieve this also for other modules?


I took a quick look into the code in Logging module to see if it
provides means for controlling what goes into %(filename) and %(lineno)
but I didn't find any. I then ended up in subclassing Logger and
redefining Logger.findCaller() to skip a list of files instead of just
one file. Then in my library module I can add current file name into
the list of file names which logger will skip.

Does this seem like sensible solution for you:


import logging
import sys
import os

srcfilelist = [ logging._srcfile, os.path.normcase(__file__) ]

class MyLogger(logging.Logger):

     def findCaller(self):
         f = sys._getframe(1)
         while 1:
             co = f.f_code
             filename = os.path.normcase(co.co_filename)
             if filename in srcfilelist:
                 f = f.f_back
                 continue
             return filename, f.f_lineno

logging.setLoggerClass(MyLogger)



---
Tero



From ODASNotes1/ODAS%ODAS at odas.com  Wed Mar 24 09:07:52 2004
From: ODASNotes1/ODAS%ODAS at odas.com (ODASNotes1/ODAS%ODAS at odas.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:07:52 -0800
Subject: NAV detected a virus in a document you authored.
Message-ID: <OFED723A4F.594A6F49-ON88256E61.004DA01C@odas.com>

Please contact your system administrator.


The scanned document was QUARANTINED.


Virus Information:
The attachment application_don.zip contained the virus Bloodhound.Unknown
and could NOT be repaired.
The attachment application_don.zip [document.txt
.exe] contained the virus Bloodhound.Unknown and could NOT be repaired.





From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  2 16:23:02 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:23:02 +0100
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
	<Hu61c.84024$Wa.81499@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<2004030216180675249%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <u117hrk9.fsf@python.net>

> On 2004-03-02 15:52:55 -0500, "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> said:

>> Python does optimize integers that can be represented in 32 bits but
>> larger than that and unbounded integers are used. For some
>> applications, it would be better if Python also optimized integers
>> that require between 32 and 64 bits.
>

Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com> writes:

> Especially on architectures that have 64 bit integer registers, but
> are running on an operating system/compiler combination that uses 32
> bits for int and long (such as the PowerPC 970, on OS X).  I would
> imagine a similar situation exists for other processor/enivronment
> combinations.

Instead of making this is responsibility of the Python code, wouldn't
this better be a job for psyco?

BTW, does psyco run on non-x86 architectures?

Thomas




From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Mar 25 14:39:08 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:39:08 GMT
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>
	<mailman.401.1080225693.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc66blg.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.401.1080225693.742.python-list at python.org>, Shane Hathaway wrote:
>>     # Define a staticmethod named 'now'.
>> 
>>     class datetime:
>>         now = staticmethod(def):
>>             ticks = time.time()
>>             return datetime(ticks)
> 
> Today, this would be written as:
> 
>      class datetime:
>          def now():
>              ticks = time.time()
>              return datetime(ticks)
>          now = staticmethod(now)

Note that it would need to be "now = staticmethod(def()):", I think, to
allow parameters.

I like this syntax in general (hence why I hope to have some excuse to
use Haskell or an ML someday) but it doesn't seem quite Pythonic.
If "name = def(params): body" and "def name(params): body" are both allowed, we have two
ways to define functions (plus lambda, although this would make it
obsolete, I believe).

So would "now = def then():" be allowed, setting the function name
attribute to then but making it callable only as now()?  Or would this
not allow naming functions at all?  The latter would make the
multimethods from the other thread hard to implement.  (Then again, in
this view of the world functions don't have names, they just happen to
be callable by named variables, so multimethods indexed by name wouldn't
make any sense anyway.)

Personally, I wouldn't mind at all if this form became the standard, and
the original form retired.  But I think if you don't do both, you'd
start to get a vaguely schizophrenic language.

Joe


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 13 23:14:42 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:14:42 -0800
Subject: execute script everywhere
References: <mailman.12.1079231052.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4053DC32.290E984C@alcyone.com>

myang wrote:

> After we compile a C program, we can put the executable file under a
> directory (like /bin) so that we can run it everywhere, and don't have
> to
> type the full path.
> Can we do the same thing to a python script?
> For example, I have a script.py under "/home/john/". Can I just type
> "python
> script.py" to run it under another directory "/home/tom/"?

Make sure it has a proper bangpath, make it executable, and then put it
somewhere in your PATH.  Then you can run it no matter what your pwd is
with

	script.py

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Courage is the fear of being thought a coward.
    -- Horace Smith


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar  2 05:55:42 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 05:55:42 -0500
Subject: Scoping loops (was Re: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType)
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c21p7e$o7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <95aa1afa.0403012224.506dd07c at posting.google.com>,
Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>
>1. Assuming all "for" loops and list comprehensions are replaced
>   with Haskell bindings rules, what about backward compatibility
>   problems? For instance: is there enough code relying on the loop 
>   variable being available outside the loop?

Yes.  Guido has Pronounced that this will stay, but...

>2. If, due to compatibility issues, it is not possible to change the
>   binding rules of existing loops, would it make sense to propose
>   these binding rules for Python 2.4 generator comprehension?
>   This would not be backward incompatible, but would it generate
>   confusion?

....while the rules for generator expressions have not been finalized,
Guido has agreed that they will have their own scope and that listcomps
will be changed in Python 3 to have their own scope.  You should read the
python-dev thread on generator expressions yourself to understand what's
being proposed.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar  9 17:08:58 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:08:58 -0500
Subject: Python Equivalent??
References: <1a378204.0403091353.c06c62b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-83A98E.17085809032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <1a378204.0403091353.c06c62b at posting.google.com>,
 scummer at 3squares.com (scummer) wrote:

> into Python and not having a great amount of luck. Simply put, I need
> to pass the method a datetime string, with a given pattern, and have
> the timezone set on it to UTC--without changing the time value. For
> example, if I pass these values:

I think you're looking for the strptime() function in the time module, 
i.e. time.strptime().


From guillaumegervais at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 28 11:59:45 2004
From: guillaumegervais at hotmail.com (Guillaume Gervais)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:59:45 +0000
Subject: Python installing on Debian
Message-ID: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>

Hello there,

I'm using Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable (sarge) as an operating system.  
About a month ago, I installed python 2.3 on my machine, from the sources.

And it worked perfectly.  But about 3 weeks ago, I made a update of the 
packages list (apt-get update) followed by a apt-get dist-upgrade.  I short, 
I upgraded Debian.

But among the ugraded packages was python2.3.  And it doesn't seem to 
install properly.  Here is the error message (it is in french, since my 
mother tongue is french...) :

# apt-get install package
[...]
Param?trage de python2.3 (2.3.3-6) ...
Compiling python modules in /usr/lib/python2.3 ...
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
SyntaxError: ('future feature rested_snopes is not defined',)

SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
file',)

SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
file',)

SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
file',)

SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the 
file',)

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/test/badsyntax_nocaret.py", line 2
    [x for x in x] = x
SyntaxError: can't assign to list comprehension

dpkg : erreur de traitement de python2.3 (--configure) :
le sous-processus post-installation script a retourn? une erreur de sortie 
d'?tat 1
Des erreurs ont ?t? rencontr?es pendant l'ex?cution :
python2.3
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)



But there are some python programs I am using that works fine.  But this 
line :

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

appears very often when I run python programs (but the program itself works 
fine).

When using apt-get, the package I am installing installs fine, same thing 
when I am removing a program, but the error message always appears at the 
end, and it is very annoying.

Can someone help me out?

Thanks a lot,

<html><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Guillaume Gervais, </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><IMG height=78 
src="http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/logo/0.0/logomed.128.png" 
width=182></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></html>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis !  
http://messenger.fr.msn.ca/




From beefjerky at hornet.beefjerky.demon.nl  Sat Mar 13 05:19:22 2004
From: beefjerky at hornet.beefjerky.demon.nl (Jeroen Wenting)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:19:22 +0100
Subject: Simple Problem: Getting rid of {}
References: <mailman.330.1079123993.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1055ns8r7924rdb@corp.supernews.com>

> #inside a loop
>
>         if (v==0):
>                 feature_element=str(1)+"
> "+str(index[i])+":"+str(vector[i])+" "
>                 print feature_element
>         else:
>
feature_element is a string here.

> feature_element=str(index[i])+":"+str(vector[i])+" "
>
same here

>
> feature_vector=str(feature_element)+str(feature_vector)
>         if (v==0):
>                 print feature_vector
>
here feature_vector is made a string you're doing feature_vector = "1
22389:0.0291806958474" + "{}" which yields the result you get.
>
> when I print feature_vector I get my desired output
> but with an extra {} in the end.
>
> Output:
>
> 1 22389:0.0291806958474
> 1 22389:0.0291806958474 {}
>
>
>
> I fail to understand why this is happening since
> feature_element should also have {} in the end, if it
> was the case with the variables I declared with like:
> syntax{}
>
> How to get rid of this extra {} from my string.
>
feature_vector.add(feature_element)
print " ".join("%s" %x for x in feature_vector)

or something along those lines :)




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Mar 15 22:32:06 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:32:06 -0600
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
 Graphics
In-Reply-To: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	(rick_muller@yahoo.com's message of "15 Mar 2004 19:25:50 -0800")
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2smg9wjpl.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Rick" == Rick Muller <rick_muller at yahoo.com> writes:

    Rick>    Disadvantages: Need to rewrite some of the uglier code
    Rick> (which probably needs to be rewritten anyway) that uses
    Rick> GTK.GLArea. Still requires a long list of modules to be
    Rick> installed. And GTK still is not a standard library outside
    Rick> of Linux.

I went this route and never regretted it, but my code base was
probably smaller than yours is.

As for win32: you're right, a GTK/GTKGLEXT install is 4 windows
installers (GTK-Runtime, pygtk, gtkglext and pygtkglext) and a PATH
setting. This is a pain.  I distribute an app that requires all of
these (internally at work, not open source yet) and have yet to find a
user that can get it right w/o help, despite a kind and patient README
and diagnostic test file (it also requires mysql, vtk and more so it's
not just the GTK* stuff).  However, you could roll your own installer
or py2exe freeze your app.

For OS X, all of the above work.  I installed GTK* from src, but I
suspect most of your users won't :-).  In a few months time, I suspect
there will be some good python framework extensions that include GTK
for OS X.

linux with all of the above is easy.  I think rolling your own
installer or freezing for win32 is easier than trying to maintain a
dead package (gtk.gl).

+1 port to gtk.glext

JDH



From nikita_raja at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 16:02:00 2004
From: nikita_raja at yahoo.com (Sam Smith)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 13:02:00 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<14b36d18.0403050216.ad3a7f5@posting.google.com>
	<877jxzv10y.fsf@mrbun.watterson>
Message-ID: <b19beb92.0403051302.456e024f@posting.google.com>

Please try the following code.  As Tim says everything you need for
your problem at hand is included in the core distribution.  Look for
documentation for xml.sax module.

Code ::

 import xml.sax.handler
 import xml.sax
 import sys

 class ReadXML(xml.sax.handler.ContentHandler):
    def __init__(self, xml_file):
        xml.sax.handler.ContentHandler.__init__(self)
        self.content = ""                
        xml.sax.parse(xml_file, self)

    def characters(self, content):
        self.content = self.content.lstrip().rstrip() + " " + content
    
 if __name__=="__main__":
    if len(sys.argv) != 3:
        print "usage: %prog xml_file output_file"
        sys.exit()
    xml_file = sys.argv[1]
    output_file = sys.argv[2]    
    readXML = ReadXML(xml_file)
    f = file(output_file, "w+")
    f.write(readXML.content)
    f.close()


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar  3 11:06:03 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:06:03 +0100
Subject: Replacing base class
References: <4045ed40@news.corbina.ru>
Message-ID: <c24vpb$r3k$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Alexey Klimkin wrote:

> Assume an example:
> class A:
>   def f(self):
>     print 'A'
> class B(A):
>   def f(self):
>     A.f(self)
>     print 'B'
> class C:
>   def f(self):
>     print 'C'
> 
> I need to make class Bm with the same functionality as B, but
> derived from C, instead of A. Classes C and A have the same
> interface.

Maybe the following pattern could be helpful:

class Abstract(object):
    """ define the interface with noops """
    def f(self):
        pass

class A(Abstract):
    def f(self):
        super(A, self).f()
        print "A",

class B(Abstract):
    def f(self):
        super(B, self).f()
        print "B",

class C(Abstract):
    def f(self):
        super(C, self).f()
        print "C",


You can now make classes that derive from any combination of A, B and C,
where the method f() in each of the bases is invoked exactly once, e. g:

def demo(b):
    print b.__class__.__bases__
    b.f()
    print

for B1 in (A, B, C):
    for B2 in (A, B, C):
        if  B1 != B2:
            class B3(B1, B2):
                pass
            demo(B3())

class B3(A, B, C):
    pass

demo(B3())

The disadvantage is the need of the base class (Abstract in the example)
where the common interface is defined and which seems somewhat unnatural in
Python.

Peter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 07:03:52 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 13:03:52 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Matthias <no at spam.pls> writes:

> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:
> 
> > >>>>> "Jacek" == Jacek Trzmiel <sc0rp at hot.pl> writes:
> > 
> >     Jacek> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> >     >> ... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is
> >     >> static typing ...
> > 
> >     Jacek> Care to provide some examples to back this opinion up?

Your supercite references to "Jacek" are rather ambiguous, in this
case (unlikely though it may seem, in general :-)

> > Programming is just a lot of work in statically typed languages, so
> > you need to work very hard to get even the basic functionality
> > working. You might not have energy/time/money to make proper unit
> > tests after/during the development.

"After", is far too late, in my opinion. It's a bit like suggesting to
a static-typing-for-safety fan, that he should only run his program
through the compiler _after_ he has finished developing. I find that
one of the greatest benefits that test suites afford, is giving you
the confidence to change your program, in the knowledge that things
you break will become apparent immediately. Before I started writing
test suites _during_ development, I was always scared that any change
I made would break things in ways I wouldn't notice. Consequently I
used to spend a huge effort on pseudorandomly trying to find ways in
which my modifications could have broken other parts of my
system. With a test suite growing alongside your application, a high
degree of confidence is a mere button press away. It has made me a
much more productive and happy programmer. (I have, of course, no
_scientific_ evidence for this, but my perception of it being so is
overwhelming.)

> Aren't unit tests used to _save_ energy/time/money?

Yup. And they _do_.

> If so, why should this be different w.r.t. typing?

I'm not sure that I understand your question.

w.r.t _static_ typing ?

I think that Ville's point is that static typing gets in your way so
much when you are developing the functionality of your program, that
you are unlikely to make the added investment of writing test suites
_as_ you develop: they seem to be yet another irrelevant annoyance. I
agree, at the very beginning of any project, writing tests looks like
a drag, and it looks premature. I am tempted to agree that right at
the _very_ beginning, it is premature. But shortly thereafter you
should start writing your tests ... and shortly after that they start
paying handsom dividends. (All my very personal and subjective
experience, of course.)


From garryknight at gmx.net  Fri Mar 12 20:21:00 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:21:00 +0000
Subject: How to read one byte at a time in Python?
References: <mailman.335.1079137564.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1079140862.24549.0@nnrp-t71-01.news.uk.clara.net>

In message <mailman.335.1079137564.19534.python-list at python.org>, Anthony
Liu wrote:

> Java has functions that read only one byte at a time,
> do we have such a function in python?

inf = open('filename', 'r')
c = inf.read(1)

Depending on the meaning of the word 'byte' in your question, you might want
to make the file mode 'rb'.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From James.Anderson at icr.ac.uk  Tue Mar  9 04:35:03 2004
From: James.Anderson at icr.ac.uk (James Anderson)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:35:03 +0000
Subject: Scaling an ImageTk.PhotoImage
Message-ID: <s04d8fdd.072@icr.ac.uk>

I'm have a bitmap which I can display as an ImageTk.PhotoImage and would
like to display it and double or quadruple size.  The bitmap itself is
generated inside my program, so converting it to another format isn't
really practical.  Does anyone know an easy way to do this?

Thanks,
James Anderson



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar 11 15:42:54 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:42:54 +0100
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2qiuk$rs7$1@swifty.westend.com>

David MacQuigg schrieb:
>>David MacQuigg schrieb:
>>Disadvantages of your proposal:
>>
>>- The advantage is also a disadvantage: a lowered barrier for
>>  new semantics could bloat the language definition. Python's
>>  strength is that it has *few* concepts that are usable in *many*
>>  places. This could be compromised by your proposal.
> 
> 
> This is actually a separate issue.  Adding a few @ mods to selected
> statements does not mean that users can add their own.

I assumed that in my response but also GvR and the Python community
can do too much with @.

> Readability, in this case, is in the eye of the beholder.  'lambda' to
> me says 'wavelength', which I know has nothing to do with programming.

:-)) OK, of course I was talking about the semantics within the
language framework. Otherwise you could claim that def says deaf and
for says four ;-)

> 'yield' is a little closer to the intent, but again, to most new users
> it probably means something more like 'give way' or 'acquiesce', the
> opposite of 'resist'. If you had never seen 'yield' used as it is now
 > in Python, and your first encounter with generator functions was when
 > you saw @return, would you not think "Ah yes, a modified return.", and
 > would that not be closer to reality than whatever you might associate
 > with the word 'yield'?

Sometimes it's an advantage to be a non-native speaker. I know exactly
one meaning of yield (something like deliver) and that fits nicely to
generators. :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From laotzu at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 16:46:31 2004
From: laotzu at pobox.com (Mathieu Fenniak)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:46:31 GMT
Subject: __builtins__ and PyImport_AddModule
Message-ID: <slrnc5c95c.q6n.laotzu@poison.ous.ca>

Good day,

I'm writing an application which creates modules and runs Python code on
the fly, embedding Python.  The main function of the code is loaded into
the __main__ module: (Error checking omitted for brevity.)

    PyObject* module = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
    PyObject* moduleDict = PyModule_GetDict(module);
    PyObject* runRetval = PyRun_String(codeStr, Py_file_input,
        moduleDict, moduleDict);

I ran into a problem when I tried to do a similar thing with the modules
that 'codeStr' may reference:

    PyObject* module = PyImport_AddModule(moduleName);
    PyObject* moduleDict = PyModule_GetDict(module);
    PyObject* runRetval = PyRun_String(moduleCode, Py_file_input,
        moduleDict, moduleDict);

The code in 'moduleCode' was unable to do any imports (__import__ was
not defined), nor use any builtin methods or classes (like Exception).
I dig a bit further into it, and found that __builtins__ was not set in
my new module's dict.  This is set for __main__ in initmain() in
pythonrun.c.  I ended up having to add the following code to import
__builtin__:

    if (PyDict_GetItemString(moduleDict, "__builtins__") == NULL)
    {
        PyObject* builtinMod = PyImport_ImportModule("__builtin__");
        if (builtinMod == NULL || 
            PyDict_SetItemString(moduleDict, "__builtins__", builtinMod) != 0)
                // blah blah, error handling.
                ;
        Py_XDECREF(builtinMod);
    }

Why is __builtins__ not set in a module created by PyImport_AddModule?

-- 
 Mathieu Fenniak <laotzu at pobox.com>
 PGP Key ID 0xE131EF7B
 http://www.stompstompstomp.com/


From usenet at removvethiisphrraseblacklettersoftware.com  Mon Mar 29 17:13:59 2004
From: usenet at removvethiisphrraseblacklettersoftware.com (Richard Biffl)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:13:59 -0500
Subject: Front end python backend php
References: <a4648036.0403290654.35829baf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ePadnW0Knr54AvXd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Look at http://pecl.php.net/package/python.

  Richard

"james blair" <talktojamesblair at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a4648036.0403290654.35829baf at posting.google.com...
> I have a front end developed in PHP
> Now I want to develop the backeend(database connection & stuff) in
> python.
> How can I call a python module from php on submitting my page??
> Also how can i output the values return by python module on gui which
> is developed in PHP ??




From someone at someplace.com  Tue Mar 16 08:37:49 2004
From: someone at someplace.com (Mark Watts)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:37:49 GMT
Subject: IronPython Status?
Message-ID: <NqD5c.23189$Fh4.5215@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

Has anyone heard anything new about IronPython.
http://www.python.org/~jeremy/weblog/031209a.html

Thanks
- Mark


From hjwidmaier at web.de  Wed Mar 17 02:20:10 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 23:20:10 -0800
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>

I was really pleased when the Optik module found its way into the
standard Python battery compartment, as it matched all my option
parsing requirements. But, as always, there's really nothing that does
all you ever want, especially when it comes to option parsing -
there's just too many schemes to handle them all comfortably.

With this program I'm working on, I started to recognize that not only
the functionality should be delegated to modules, but that most
command line options are private to these modules (call 'em plug-ins)
as well. This calls for a command line like CVS or subverion employ:

<cmd> <generic options> <subcmd> <subcmd options> <args>

There are several ways to do it:
 - Let one option parser recognize all options. No drop-in plug-ins,
no possibility for the same options meaning different things in
different plug-ins (no, this isn't neccessarily a bad design anyway).
Obviously horrible.
 - Don't allow interspersed arguments. This is something I dislike. I
want to be able to type a forgotten generic option when I'm at the end
of a possibly long line. Even with modern shells its a nuisance to
have to go to the line's beginning, skip the command and insert the
option.
 - Augment optparse to just ignore unknown options and treat them as
arguments. Doesn't allow clustering of generic and subcommand-specific
options, doesn't allow for generic options to be arguments to
subcommand-specific options, but these seem as minor points to me. So
I did that. And I'd like to ask if this
might have a chance to get into the standard optparse module (It's
just a few lines).

The bigger problem, though, is internationalization. I don't care for
all the exceptions raised by programmer errors, but the usage, help
and user-visible error messages should really be inernationalized.
Subclassing optparse doesn't help much here, as the strings are
sprinkled all over. Is it even thinkable that optparse (or, in the
end, the whole standard library) be prepared for internationalization?
Couldn't it be handled like that:

At the module's top:

import __builtin__
try:
    __builtin__._
except AttributeError:
    def _(s):
        return s

and surrounding all relevant strings with _()?

Having all programs only talk english or having to rewrite every
module certainly can't be the answer.

Deutsch labernd der Eure,
Hans-Joachim Widmaier


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Mon Mar  8 01:23:45 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 22:23:45 -0800
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0403072223.7ab1acb1@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc at 4ax.com>...
> I'm considering Python as a replacement for the highly specialized
> scripting languages used in the electronics design industry.  Design
> engineers are typically not programmers, and they avoid working with
> these complex proprietary languages, preferring instead to use GUI
> tools that are poorly implemented and very limited in the problems
> they can solve.
> 
> I am convinced that Python can do anything that can be done by these
> CPL's, but I know it will be an uphill battle getting design engineers
> to learn yet another scripting language. The pitch will be 1) What you
> need to solve most of your design problems can be learned in two days.
> Then you can decide if you want to learn the full language. 2) Learn
> this one and you will have a language applicable to not just
> controlling one company's EDA tools, but almost any scripting or
> computational problem you may encounter.  3) Python may well be the
> ultimate computer language for non-programmer technical professionals.
> You won't have to learn another in the future.
> 
> The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits and
> pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen CPL.
> String processing, for example, is one area where we may face some
> difficulty.  Here is a typical line of garbage from a statefile
> revision control system (simplified to eliminate some items that pose
> no new challenges):
<<SNIP>>
> 
> -- Dave
Hi Dave,
I'm also in the Industry, but I find a different set of problems. I should 
first explain that I have worked mainly on Unix Design flows for ASICS and
PCBs. I find that one problem is that the EDA industry was quite quick in 
embedding scripting languages in their tools; Simulators embedding TCL, 
Layout tools embedding some form of scheme/Lisp, and Synthesizers with TCL.
If an engineer wants to learn a programming language then they are pulled 
towards learning the language in their tools. 
Other, more adventurous/capable engineers get seduced by Perl I think 
because they will know csh or bash and have some grasp of sed/grep regular
expressions. To them, the Perl one liner sed/grep replacement is 
decipherable with a little help. They don't notice until too late that they
are writting 50+ lines of Perl that needs to work in 2 years time, and must 
be ported to another project in four months time. They just get hit with 
the porting and maintenance problem *after* they have invested in learning
Perl and can't believe that Python would be better. They learned by doing 
the one-liner and expanding from that. One-liners in Python are, rare.

The Person that already knows Perl will then conveniently forget about the 
warts when a new designer wants to learn a 'scripting language' and will 
point them at perl too.

Re-reading your mail, I guess we are in agreement. You have pointed out how 
other languages are 'better' at one line string manipulation problems.

Maybe what would help would be a Python 'bridge' language aimed specifically 
at short/interactive progs, maybe something like IPython, but any such 
language would then need a converter to Python for when that 20 line script 
grows into a larger program.

Cheers, Pad.


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 18:13:12 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 15:13:12 -0800
Subject: sorting a list
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>

Hi
I want to sort a list.
My problem is:

>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
>>> a.sort()
>>> a
['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']


But I am actually looking for an output:
['A','a','D','F','f']

Is there any module to sort a list this way?


From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 17 21:34:11 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:34:11 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
In-Reply-To: <40580E88.B86D0A45@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEMDJJAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Dietrich Epp]
>> I wouldn't say comparing different different types is necessarily an
>> error, though.

[Erik Max Francis]
> It's guaranteed to be consistent, and sort is guaranteed not to go
> nuts (as someone else pointed out).  The ordering is defined to be
> consistent, although it does not define a well-ordering, and
> furthermore need not be the same between different implementations
> (or even different implementations).  It may not be an error, but
> there's no reason for it to be a total ordering.

When the language reference manual says "consistent" here, Guido did indeed
mean "total ordering", including transitivity and trichotomy.

There are (and always have been) goofy cases where comparisons among objects
of builtin types don't meet this promise, where

    a < b < c < a

is true.  Such cases are considered to be bugs, although at this point I bet
Guido is getting more inclined to consider the promise of a consistent
ordering across all objects of builtin types to be an error in Python's
original design (it's a promise that's never been met, despite several
rounds of pure hackery to try to meet it -- "if the implementation is hard
to explain, it's probably a bad idea", and the implementation of comparison
at this point has become absurdly hard to explain in full detail).




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Mar  4 10:44:59 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:44:59 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40474EFB.70104@ghaering.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> [problems finding Gadfly binaries]

Alternatively, you could try PySQLite. It's also an embedded database engine in a 
Python module. And it offers binaries for win32.

-- Gerhard (PySQLite developer)



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar  8 15:52:33 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:52:33 +1100
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE0145F535@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Roy Smith
> 
> and you want to test the constructor.  Think about what could 
> go wrong.  
> Well, the most obvious thing is that you could have some kind 
> of syntax 
> or semantic error in your constructor code, so the first test 

When I write tests, the order is always (for Python):

1. SyntaxError - is the code syntactically correct. This is the trivial case - import the module.

2. NameError - for example, does the name I'm trying to test actually exist?

3. Creation - can I create the thing I'm trying to test?

4. Everything else ;)

I find it's important to follow the following procedure when creating a new module, to get me into the right frame of mind. By doing this, it's much easier for me to always stay at least one test ahead of the code ...

1. Write the simplest test for the module (syntax).

    import unittest

    import Creature

    if __name__ == '__main__'
        unittest.main()

    # Will fail

2. Create the (empty) module file.

3. Write the NameError and creation test (they're usually one and the same).

    import unittest

    import Creature

    class CreatureTest (unittest.TestCase):

        def testCreation(self):
            obj = Creature.Creature()
            # Will fail with name error

    if __name__ == '__main__'
        unittest.main()

4. Write the basic class definition.

5. Run the test again - if __init__ doesn't take other parameters it will fail.

6. Fix any parameter problems with __init__.

7. I'm now in the right frame of mind for writing the tests and coding.

I find that if I don't follow the above procedure, I'll get into the frame of mind of just coding, and forgetting about anything except ad-hoc functional tests. Discipline is a most important thing.

Tim Delaney



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 24 06:19:46 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:19:46 +0100
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<c3r2vq$3ci$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jN98c.13979$JB2.2819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c3rego$eeq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<%9d8c.14013$fV3.9853@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <40616f16$0$144$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Trevor Perrin <trevp_spam at trevp.net> wrote:

>(Conversion would be even easier if Python had a built-in way to convert 
>byte strings to longs.  Maybe something like:
>
>bigNumber = long(bigNumberString, 256)
>
>bigNumberString = bigNumber.tostring()

+1

>Having to return bits is ungainly cause what if the caller wants, say, 7 
>of them?  You gotta buffer the excess bit, and then tack it on to the 
>next call.

Maybe this:


from random import Random
from itertools import islice
import sha

asbits = {'0':'0000','1':'0001','2':'0010','3':'0011',
        '4':'0100','5':'0101','6':'0110','7':'0111',
        '8':'1000','9':'1001','a':'1010','b':'1011',
        'c':'1100','d':'1101', 'e':'1110','f':'1111'}

class ShaRandom(Random):

    def random(self, tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53, gen = None):
        if gen is None: 
            gen = self.bitgen()
        bits = ''.join(islice(gen,53))
        return long(bits,2) * tofloat

    def bitgen(self, prf = sha.new()):
        while 1:
            prf.update(repr(Random.random(self)))
            for nibble in prf.hexdigest():
                for bit in asbits[nibble]:
                    yield bit
                    
def test():
    random = ShaRandom().random
    for i in range(10):
        print random()

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

Anton



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Mar 23 13:32:32 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:32:32 -0600
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
References: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
	<mailman.291.1080059607.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3pv3g$2l0r$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
Message-ID: <O5adnUHcJrddH_3dRVn-sA@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:19:13 +0100, 
	Robert <k.robert at gmx.de> wrote:
> at http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/active/html/python.html I learned the robot
> "The Python Robot" is maintained by www.python.org.

I have no idea what they're talking about; no one at python.org is running a
robot that's crawling a large number of web pages.  Back in 1995 GvR posted
a web crawling script that used Python-robot as the user agent, but that
doesn't seem to match the one you describe.

I suggest you block the IP address doing all of the crawling; whoever it is
almost certainly isn't legitimate.

--amk


From bingopajama at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 14:16:06 2004
From: bingopajama at hotmail.com (Eric Ching)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 11:16:06 -0800
Subject: Help running pythonw from a command prompt with arguments
References: <6dd8dec2.0403030718.3e93e3da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6dd8dec2.0403031116.115c0537@posting.google.com>

I post too soon.  Looks like my problem is not so much with using
command line arguments as it is simply with pythonw.  When I try using
pythonw with a script that works with the standard python
interpreter(after changing the extension to pyw), still I get the same
results(returns immediately to the command prompt)  When I double
click on this script's icon nothing happens as well.


From http  Fri Mar 12 16:56:40 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 13:56:40 -0800
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<7xoer1ls3j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c2t87m$ajn$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xvfl9hgpz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:
> Well, it works. They change the password and the script changes it
> back... try it yourself on Mac OSX 10.3.x, before claiming it doesn't
> work.

That script can only work if it's running as root, not just owned by
root.  Why do you want to change the password anyway, if you can
already run stuff as root?


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 08:18:47 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:18:47 GMT
Subject: Hiding console window
Message-ID: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I'm looking to play a joke on a friend and I'm wondering if there's a way to
not show or hide the DOS console. My friend doesn't have python so I have to
compile it to an EXE.

TIA




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Mar 23 10:20:23 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 16:20:23 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> (JG) wrote:

JG> I feel honour-bound to point out that citing static typing (explicit
JG> static typing, in particular) as a means of creating more correct
JG> programs, to be one of the greatest contemporary myths of software
JG> engineering.

JG> Static typing makes it easier for compilers to produce more efficient
JG> code. That is the only advantage that static typing offers. 

JG> I am of the opinion that (explicit) static typing contributes to the
JG> bugginess of programs.

I would like to know if there is scientific evidence (rather than
feelings/opinions) about the pro or con of this statement.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Mar 29 05:30:09 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:30:09 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <SUS9c.8087$1A6.391908@news20.bellglobal.com>

> > * A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
> >    wouldn't go amiss. Having to say
> >
> >      Thing = Base()
> >      with Thing:
> >         ...
> >
> >    every time I want to define a class (oops, sorry, prototype)
> >    would drive me batty. I'd much rather write something like
> >
> >      object Thing(Base):
> >        ...
> >


In Io (www.iolanguage.com):

Thing := Object clone do(
        # evaluates in context of Thing, i.e., Thing is the locals object of
do()
        slot := "new slot for Thing"
)

Thing slot print   # <-  "new slot for Thing"

There's some fancy footwork going on that I won't go into at the moment -
its 5am - but suffice to say that namespaces are handled by objects and
message forwarding and one of the tricks of this process is that a method
has 'self', 'proto', 'sender', and 'locals' slots. In the case of do(),
locals == self == sender (I think).  Anyway, for Prothon, perhaps you'll
want to reserve "do" for blocks, so we'll try "where":

Thing = Object.clone() where:
        attr = "new attribute for Thing"
print Thing.attr   # <- "new attribute for Thing"


I'm not sure how that'd be made to work though - in Io, do() is just another
method of Object (there are no keywords).

The namespaces are handled by objects idea seems to play out nicely - for
one thing, there's no reason to distinguish globals via capitalization.
Also, having two forms of assignment (one for creation(binding), and one for
update(re-binding)) eliminates alot of the need for the '.' prefix stuff in
Prothon - use "self.attr" once on creation to let the namespace know what
you're doing and from then on , as long as you don't shadow it by creating a
local of the same name, you can just say "attr". If you're only doing
updates on "attr", in a given namespace, you never need to use "self.attr" -
the lookup mechanism will just resolve it for you.


Anyway, that's enough from me, I have a lab exam to study for.

Sean




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Mar 15 12:57:55 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:57:55 -0600
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
In-Reply-To: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain> (Edwin Young's message
	of "13 Mar 2004 19:56:01 -0800")
References: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m2smgac7rw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Edwin" == Edwin Young <edwin at localhost.localdomain> writes:

    Edwin> Hi,

    Edwin> I'm writing a fractal-generating program in a mixture of C
    Edwin> and Python. Python handles all the GUI parts using
    Edwin> PyGTK. After finishing the calculations, I have a buffer
    Edwin> containing the RGB data of the image. I can display this
    Edwin> fine on screen using draw_rgb_image. Now I need to save the
    Edwin> image data into a file. gtk.gdk.Pixbuf.save() 

gtk.gdk.Pixbuf does have a save method

http://www.gnome.org/~james/pygtk-docs/class-gdkpixbuf.html

Alternatively, if you have a pixbuf instance that contains your image
data, you can access the data as an RGBA array with

  # pb is a gtk.gdk.Pixbuf
  pa = pb.get_pixels_array()  #pygtk 2.2 and

or 
  
  pa = pb.pixel_array   # pygtk-2.0

You can then access the rgba components, eg

    pa[:,:,0]  # red
    pa[:,:,1]  # green
    pa[:,:,2]  # blue
    pa[:,:,3]  # alpha

and write them to a file anyway you want.

Or am I not understanding you?

JDH



From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 29 21:37:03 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:37:03 +1200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <BcT9c.8088$1A6.392543@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<BcT9c.8088$1A6.392543@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c4amgf$2ha0mj$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sean Ross wrote:
> Proto = Proto1.clone().__bases__ = (Proto2, )
> obj = Proto1.clone()
> 
> or
> 
> Proto = Proto1.clone().include(Proto2)  # <- might want to save that for
> mixins
> obj = Proto1.clone()

With the syntactic sugar I suggested this would be

   object Proto(Proto1, Proto2):
     ...

and I wouldn't really care what went on under the covers.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 16:44:25 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:44:25 -0600
Subject: declaring multimethods [Was: Re: PEP 318]
In-Reply-To: <slrnc63e2s.3sn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc63e2s.3sn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <16482.313.738997.185853@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Joe> I think my preferred way to do this would be just

    Joe>     class MatrixBase:
    Joe>         pass

    Joe>     class Matrix(MatrixBase):
    Joe>         def __mul__(self, other) [multimethod(MatrixBase, MatrixBase)]:
    Joe>             ...
    Joe>             return result

Good point.

Skip



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 22 13:41:46 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:41:46 -0500
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <fd5u50lqcbhtfr1r92n7lahmk3mn1npv5n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEELJLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David MacQuigg]
> ...
> I'm still curious as to the answer to my very simple and basic
> question:

It is basic, but there's nothing simple about it.

> Are there any examples that show a *non-subjective* difference in a
> physically meaningful result between one PRNG and another?

Yes, but different RNGs have different weaknesses, and whether the
weaknesses of a specific RNG *matter* to you depend on detailed analysis of
the specific app you have in mind.

The primary weakness of linear congruential generators (still the most
common kind) is dramatically illustrated all over the web; e.g., look at the
3D plot at:

    http://www.unf.edu/ccec/cis/CIShtml/RANDUinfo.html

If you need to generate "random" points in 3D space, does it matter that the
particular LCG plotted there systematically generates points that fall on
one of 15 planes, no matter how many points you generate?  There's no answer
to that short of analyzing the specifics of what you're trying to accomplish
by generating those points.  For example, if your app relies on the triples
generated being approximately equally distributed throughout a 3D cube, that
particular LCG is an obvious disaster for that particular application.  But
if your app only cares that the projection of the points onto the x axis is
approximately equally distributed, probably no problem, despite that it's
obvious "by eyeball" that there's nothing even remotely "random" about their
distribution in 3D space.

You're not going to get an easy answer.  Well, here's one:  the Mersenne
Twister in Python 2.3 is probably the best and most widely tested fast PRNG
in existence now, and has provably good equidistribution properties in high
dimensions (a plot like the one above would have no visible patterns if the
Twister had been used instead).




From timr at probo.com  Fri Mar 26 02:34:08 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:34:08 -0800
Subject: address a port
References: <9eabe547.0403232100.501b8bbe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.327.1080119662.742.python-list@python.org>
	<9eabe547.0403242038.4e453ae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lqm760lu7m8jh9277s4l49ch2h78ksansb@4ax.com>

python473 at yahoo.com (John Howard) wrote:
>
>This is great. But what about win 98, win 95, xp, 2000?

For the 16-bit systems (Win98 and Win95), you can use the VERY handy
ctypes.py module to call the inp/inpw/inpd/outp/outpw/outpd APIs in
MSVCRT.DLL.

For the NT-based systems (Win2K and WinXP), a user-mode process is not
allowed to access I/O ports unassisted, regardless of the language.  You
need the help of a kernel driver.

This is usually a bad idea.  What are you trying to do?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 13 21:52:14 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:52:14 -0500
Subject: Fatal Python error: Inconsistent interned string state
In-Reply-To: <85c78d18.0403122239.4be5ad04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEFHJIAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Byron Morgan]
> Anyone run into this before?

Sorry, I've never heard of this check triggering before.

> I have a python app that has been reliable, running for days on end
> without a crash. Suddenly, It repeatedly crashes with the following
> message:
>
> "Fatal Python error: Inconsistent interned string state.
> abnormal program termination"
>
> Some background:
>
> Platform is W2K.
>
> My app receives data (short strings, 25 - 40 character in length) from
> a telnet connection, using telnetlib. The strings are placed in a
> queue (I am using Queue.Queue(). The telnet session runs in a thread.
> A second thread gets strings from the queue and does stuff with the
> contents, involving queries to a mysql database. The main thread just
> watches for keyboard input for a shutdown command. Other than that, it
> prints to console and logs to a file.
>
> I cannot find any place in my code that overtly uses the concept of an
> interned string (I had never before heard of an interned string). The
> crashes began after I started using the following simple construct, to
> trap a particular value in the data:
>
> if line[0] == '2': (do something)
>
> Naturally, I assume that the problem may have something to do with
> this change, but I cannot fathom how it could cause this problem

You're not going to solve this without a lot of debugging.  The error can
come from one of two places in Python's stringobject.c.  In either case, it
means the value of a Python string object's ob->sstate member has an
impossible value.  Virtually any error, anywhere in any C code, could cause
this -- some extension leaving memory uninitialzed, someone doing a wild
store, anything.  Running with a debug build of Python and all extensions
might help.  Since this has (AFAICT) never been reported before, the cause
is unlikely to be in core Python, and likely to be in a C extension that
doesn't ship with the core.




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 11 13:03:27 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:03:27 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg@4ax.com>
	<10514avne47n787@news.supernews.com>
	<u39150l2218blgkduajrrlsju7760sclpd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1051aig1r596g70@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:u39150l2218blgkduajrrlsju7760sclpd at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:17:08 -0500, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> >news:mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg at 4ax.com...
>
> >> Wow!!  And I thought it was just me.  Could you point me to a PEP or
> >> other discussion?  I would sure like to know the history of this.
> >> Could it be that in adding "lambda calculus" to Python, Guido was
> >> snowed by the language theorists? <half wink>
> >
> >There's a presentation on the Python site - go to Doc, then to
> >Guido's Essay's, then to Presentations. It's called Python Regrets.
> >Google has an HTML version if you use "Python Regrets Guido"
> >as the keywords.
>
> http://python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/6
> Interesting that Guido says lambda is confusing.
>
> Interesting also that he is proposing two functions in place of
> print(x,y,z):
>    write(x,y,z)
>    writeln(x,y,z)
> This sounds very similar to Paul Prescod's proposal a few days ago on
> this newsgroup, except that Paul is proposing to do it all with one
> show() function.  I like the one function.

There's also a basic difference. Write takes a string (or
strings with the proposal). Print took anything and called
str() or repr() to convert.

The difference between write and writeln is that the latter
puts in the return. Since it's on Guido's list, and since I
don't think it will cause compatibility problems, I suspect
that a patch to do it wouldn't be rejected out of hand. I'd
suggest making writeln (which is a new method) default
to inserting a single space, and leave write to default to
not inserting anything between the strings. (And remember
to do the doc update at the same time - the core developers
really like that.)

> Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()

Reload doesn't work the way most people think
it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
they stay around. They aren't replaced.

It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
doesn't do what the idea promises.

>
> Thanks for the link.

You're welcome.

>
> -- Dave

John Roth
>




From http  Sat Mar 13 18:27:23 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 15:27:23 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
Message-ID: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.c

This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
are appreciated.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 19:34:42 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:34:42 -0600
Subject: Unicode is driving me nuts!
In-Reply-To: <20040312231904.63687.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040312231904.63687.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16466.22306.480990.299621@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Anthony> str = unicode(raw_str, myencoding)

    Anthony> This works just fine with a small sample Chinese document.

    Anthony> But when I attempted to run the script on the entire corpus, I
    Anthony> get the typical "incomplete multibyte sequence error" or
    Anthony> "UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in
    Anthony> position 0-23: ordinal not in range(128)"

Can you craft a small example which demonstrates the error but which you
think is correctly encoded?

    Anthony> I am at my wit's end, so frustrated at handling
    Anthony> non-ascii texts.

Unicode creates lots of problems for the uninitiated.  I pulled my hair out
for a long time.  It took me a couple tries to get my system to work
(more-or-less) with Unicode.  It's still got the occasional problem.

Skip




From randall at tnr.cc  Sat Mar 20 23:12:01 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:12:01 GMT
Subject: debian config not working
In-Reply-To: <gB87c.23542$1r6.7741@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <gB87c.23542$1r6.7741@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <lC87c.23550$1r6.13349@fe2.texas.rr.com>

Sorry, meant to post to the debian group.

Randall Smith wrote:
> My vim configuration is not working.  Here is my ~/.vimrc file.
> 
> set sw=4
> set ts=4
> set nobackup
> set nowritebackup
> syntax on
> colorscheme murphy
> au FileType python source ~/.vim/syntax/python.vim
> 
> colorscheme works, but some other things don't
> 
> sw=4 does not work, neither does shiftwidth=4
> ts=4 does not work, neither does tabstop=4
> 
> When I crank up vim and type :set tabstop, it says it is set to 8.  I 
> get no errors when starting up vim.  What's going on.  I'm about to pull 
> my hair out.  I can manually set it within vim by :set tabstop=4. 
> GRRRRRRRRRRR!  Anybody know when its not taking my settings from .vimrc? 
>  Also gvim is not taking my python.vim file.
> 
> Randall


From berra at psyket.com  Mon Mar  1 10:24:01 2004
From: berra at psyket.com (Per Erik Stendahl)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:24:01 +0100
Subject: Concatenated numerical literals
Message-ID: <40435591.9050502@psyket.com>

Hi,

I wish I could write large integers (and floats, etc) like
this in Python:

     10 000 000

Kind of the same way I can write string literals today.
(As in 'This' 'is' 'one' 'string'.)

Has there been any discussion on this? I find myself wishing
for this at least once a week, since it really helps readability.
It doesn't seem like a big implementation either.

Any comments?

Regards,
Per Erik Stendahl,
Uppsala, Sweden



From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 22:25:19 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:25:19 +1200
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3tjf4$2c222q$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ed Cogburn wrote:
> 
> Pyrex is very interesting, I've looked at Pyrex code.  The purpose of 
> Pyrex however isn't to replace Python or the interpreter process, merely 
> to optimize some parts of a Python program.  Even with heavy use of 
> Pyrex, you still can't get away from the interpreter process, ie., 
> Python will always have to be there, right?

If you use any Python features, then at least some of the
interpreter code will need to be present as a run-time
library.

If you write Pyrex code that uses no Python features at all,
Pyrex could in principle generate code that was independent
of the interpreter (it won't quite, as it stands, but it
could be made to do so). But then there wouldn't be much
advantage over writing directly in C.

As for speed, the more Python features you use, the slower
things will be. Pyrex could be smarter than it is when
translating Python code, but there are limits to what could
be achieved. There was an earlier project called Python2C
that translated Python code into a series of calls to the
Python/C API, much as Pyrex does. Reportedly it managed to
produce code that was up to about 3 times faster than
interpreted Python, but no better.

So, to get speed, you're going to have to give up some of
Python's dynamism, one way or another.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 21:45:43 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:45:43 -0500
Subject: UNICODE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.174.1079736402.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.174.1079736402.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <N96dnUcyOKLKLcbdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Zhi Peng wrote:

> Hi!
> ?????anyone know if MySQL support unicode data?
> ??????

Changing the subject line still doesn't make it Python-related,
and you already asked anyway.

Zhi Peng wrote:

 > Hi!
 > Does anyone know if MySql support unicode data?
 > ??????

This isn't exactly a Python question, is it?

Anyway, even here Google is your friend, leading fairly quickly to

    http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Charset.html

-Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar 21 15:59:29 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:59:29 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F34@opus.amorhq.net>

John Roth wrote:
> Class methods require the first parameter
> to be the class (sometimes spelled klas for some reason),

Because "class" IS a reserved word. I tend to use "cls" instead of
"klas", but I'm not Dutch. ;)


FuManChu



From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 14:35:10 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:35:10 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <16465.50974.577405.950902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.316.1079106545.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ip3450tcs9vhb3nk5npdgo18jsp68h312a@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:48:35 +0300 (MSK), "Denis S. Otkidach"
<ods at strana.ru> wrote:

>Is it possible?  How to handle the following cases:
>
>module.var = new_value
>adict = {module.var: value}
>atuple = (module.var,)
>
>module.var = someobj = new_value  # now they refer to the same
>                                  # object
>
>module.var = 0 # 0, 1 etc. are always shared. We cannot test
>someobj = 0    # where it came from

I'm not sure what you are intending with this code, but I'll assume
'new_value' is the object to be updated with a reload.  'adict' and
'atuple' should retain their references to the old object, since
dictionary keys and tuples are immutable.  'module.var' and 'someobj'
no longer point to 'new_value', so they can be left as is.

If the reload were done *before* the last two lines, then 'module.var'
and 'someobj' should be changed to point to the new 'new_value'.

-- Dave



From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Mar 11 06:23:35 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:23:35 +0100
Subject: tkinter test field, scrolling, threads
References: <403fc9bc_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
	<c1uubt$vlh$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
	<2f841a16.0403101509.23d4d959@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2phon$cqg$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Bob Greschke wrote:
[snip]
> I'm still messing with this.  Your program seems to work fine.  No
> matter how I mess with it I can't get it to fail, but even if I strip
> a lot out of mine it keeps behaving badly.  But it is even wierder. 
> If I "print" any ol' thing to the IDLE console window from a thread,
> and keep doing it until the console window fills up to the point where
> it should start to scroll, everything IDLE crashes and freezes.  The
> exact same code works fine on RH9 Python 2.2.2, and Solaris 8 Python
> 2.1.1.

Did you try to run your script outside of IDLE, i.e. just by opening a DOS 
console and type "python myScript.py"? Since IDLE is itself written with 
Tkinter, there may a few problems between your script and IDLE itself.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 04:16:03 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:16:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: v # invalid expression ?
Message-ID: <20040311091603.6106.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com>

I am trying to split a string like so:

re.split(',|&#12290;|&#12289;|!|:|,|?|?|?|)|(|;',
my_string)

Python complains like so:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\codes\regextest.py", line 27, in
-toplevel-
    ultimate =
re.split(',|&#12290;|&#12289;|!|:|,|?|?|?|)|(|;',
ch[0])
  File "c:\python23\lib\sre.py", line 156, in split
    return _compile(pattern, 0).split(string,
maxsplit)
  File "c:\python23\lib\sre.py", line 229, in _compile
    raise error, v # invalid expression
error: nothing to repeat

Does this mean that the regular expression I pass to
the split function is not valid?

That expression is just like ',|)|#|!', that is, an
or-ed list of punctuations. Then why invalid?



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 23:33:10 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:33:10 -0800
Subject: Filemon-ish behavior by Python?
In-Reply-To: <5face74a.0403291936.4b1c2442@posting.google.com>
References: <5face74a.0403291936.4b1c2442@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4atg7$5vr$2@news.service.uci.edu>


> (For those who don't know what filemon is, it is a utility by System
> Internals that hooks into something and watches every file-access
> performed by the system (in this case, Win 2000), and outputs to the
> GUI the files being accessed).
> 
> I like filemon, but I'd like it better if I could run it at the
> command line, and have the option of piping the output all over the
> place.  Does anyone out there know of an existing utility that can do
> this, or, barring that, can you point me to a good place to start on
> making such a tool using Python?  I'm not sure what I would have to
> hook into to watch these operations on the disk.

Unless you want to slow down your machine, you probably don't want to. 
Your computer can likely handle a few hundred thousand disk requests 
each second, which would result in a (relatively slow) Python callback 
for each of them.

In terms of how you would get access to such information, I don't know. 
  You may want to ask the System Internals guys.

  - Josiah


From none.by.e-mail  Tue Mar 30 07:09:10 2004
From: none.by.e-mail (Mike Thompson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:09:10 +1000
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4069636a$0$20347$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> 
> Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
 >

Its relatively easy to install and evaluate Qt/PyQt and Eric3 
(associated IDE) on a Linux box.  That's the easy path.

But its a LOT of work to try on a Windows box.  Both Qt and PyQt have 
licenses which allow non-commercial use on Linux but ONLY commercial use 
on Windows and NO easy path to an evaluation version.

I requested an evaluation versions of Qt for Windows from TrollTech and 
didn't get a response for 5 days.  Even then it was a response asking 
for more detailed information about me, my company and the purpose of 
the evaluation.  Nothing wrong with that, of course, except the whole 
process suddenly looked to be a very protracted one.  It wasn't even 
clear to me that I could then get an evaluation licence for PyQt. I gave 
up.  Too hard.

In the end, I found the easiest way to *partially* evaluate PyQt on 
Windows is to download the evaluation version of the "BlackAdder" IDE 
from "The Kompany".  BlackAdder is a toy IDE (IMO) but it does give you 
evaluation access to most of the Qt/PyQt libs and to 'Designer' the VERY 
IMPRESSIVE GUI builder that comes with Qt. The Qt/PyQt libs provided 
with BlackAdder do not include some important parts of the full Qt/PyQt 
combination: data aware widgets, etc.

I also note that even full PyQt does not support the ActiveX parts of Qt 
which turned out to be a problem for me.  Phil Thompson (Mr PyQt) seems 
interested in adding ActiveX support, but nothing is there yet.

Also Note: Eric3 is an impressive IDE that targets PyQt development. But 
you can't seem to evaluate it on windows, even if you have the 
BlackAdder demo version installed, because it requires a component that 
only comes with the full Qt/PyQt lib.

So all in all, I wouldn't even try to evaluate PyQt/Qt on Windows, just 
go straight to a Linux box.  (And be aware of the ActiveX limitations of 
PyQt once you get back to Windows).

You also need to be aware of the cost of PyQt/Qt.  Its expensive!  About 
  US$2500 for Qt (per seat) and 250 English pounds for PyQt (per seat).

Buying BlackAdder seems to give you access to a subset of the full 
PyQt/Qt libraries at a significantly reduced cost.


> 
> Anything else?
> 

No.  You've covered the main ones.

If evaluating wxPython, you may also want to look at wxDesigner.  It not 
a patch on Qt's Designer, but it seemed to me to be the best available. 
  There's also wxGlade and Boa.


BTW, I was recently reacquainted with VisualWorks (Smalltalk from 
CinCom) ... not THAT's an IDE!!  What a shame Python was nothing to come 
close, despite both languages sharing a similar dynamic nature.

--
Mike



From krauth at franzk.de  Thu Mar  4 02:24:26 2004
From: krauth at franzk.de (franz)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 23:24:26 -0800
Subject: again - after probs with database: DESIGN PATTERN
Message-ID: <11c08e94.0403032324.6a64547a@posting.google.com>

Hi developers!

Are you using design pattern? And do you want to help me with my
research project?
Ok ? you only need two minutes ? I made a little survey form (8 very
short questions).
There are no mail address or other personal data questioned
 

Just point your browser to:
http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/krauth/pattern_survey/pattern_survey

if you are interested in the results send me an e-mail (mailto is
provided under the form!)

thx in advance for your help everyone!!
franz

++++
if you tried it bevore ... please try again!
++++


From dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG# at virgilio.it  Tue Mar 23 16:48:20 2004
From: dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG# at virgilio.it (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:48:20 +0100
Subject: ASP/JSP Python Equivalent
References: <IX08c.25928$Y%6.2901546@wards.force9.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.23.21.48.19.679178@virgilio.it>

Il Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:14:28 +0000, Brett Hicking ha scritto:

> Just wondering if there is a Python equivalent of this kind of
> development.

Sure, WebWare with cheetah, or Zope with ZPT/DTML, or TwistedMatrix with woven
or nevow or cherrypy and some more.

> Could someone also give me a good idea of what Zope is, what it tries to
> solve and what it is good for in a few sentences also please :-)

Zope is an Application Server with 2 templating languages: DTML and ZPT.
It has an OODB built-in: ZODB3, also a web server, an ftp server and WebDAV.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Linux User #310274, Gentoo Proud User
X Python Newsreader developer
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xpn/



From fade at infiltrator.subdued.org  Wed Mar 31 16:31:31 2004
From: fade at infiltrator.subdued.org (Buster McFadden)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:31:31 -0500
Subject: shelve module on a gentoo/amd64 machine
Message-ID: <oNGac.2023$Xy3.7539@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

I've run into a problem on this platform (amd64) with code that works
elsewhere, on x86, sparc, and ppc platforms. The shelve module is throwing
an error raised from the anydbm call inside it:

Python 2.3.3 (#1, Feb 17 2004, 22:00:49)
[GCC 3.3.2 20040119 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.2-r7, propolice-3.3-7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import shelve
>>> x = shelve.open('tsetse.fly')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/shelve.py", line 231, in open
    return DbfilenameShelf(filename, flag, protocol, writeback, binary)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/shelve.py", line 212, in __init__
    Shelf.__init__(self, anydbm.open(filename, flag), protocol, writeback,
binary)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/anydbm.py", line 83, in open
    return mod.open(file, flag, mode)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 192, in hashopen
    d.open(file, db.DB_HASH, flags, mode)
bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- DB_ENV->dbremove:
method not permitted before open')

raw calls to anydbm to open a db fail similarly:

>>> x = anydbm.open('tsts', 'c')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/anydbm.py", line 83, in open
    return mod.open(file, flag, mode)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 192, in hashopen
    d.open(file, db.DB_HASH, flags, mode)
bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- DB_ENV->dbremove:
method not permitted before open')

... I'd love to know what's going on here. =) any clues deeply appreciated.
let me know if I can provide any more information.

-B


From fedor at mailandnews.com  Tue Mar 16 18:08:45 2004
From: fedor at mailandnews.com (fedor)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:08:45 +0100
Subject: Statistical Techniques
In-Reply-To: <20040316223213.7981.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040316223213.7981.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c381dr$pv9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Two libraries which will interest can be found at:

http://rpy.sourceforge.net/ #use r from within python.
http://www.scipy.org/ #scientific libraries.

Fedor



dont bother wrote:

> Hey,
> I was just wondering if python has any support modules
> for statistical techniques as Bayesian, Markovian
> Style Models etc.




From Python at ivonet.nl  Sun Mar 14 13:03:41 2004
From: Python at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:03:41 +0100
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
References: <20040314164032.924.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001901c409ee$aef191b0$9600000a@pc001>

Hi,

Depends on how large your file is but it is realy easy to do:

f = open("your file","r")
inp = f.readlines() # read it all into memory (here it depends on the
largeness of your file)
inp.reverse() # reverse your input
for x in inp: #normal looping
  do your stuff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Liu" <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com>
To: "py" <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 5:40 PM
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?


> In terms of file input, can we read from the end of
> the file till the beginning of a file?
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>




From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Wed Mar  3 04:52:30 2004
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 01:52:30 -0800
Subject: Jython Debugger?
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0403030152.68ecc055@posting.google.com>

If emacs is an option you can use a recent version of
python_mode.el with pdbtrack support. Works with python
and jython as well.

Simply place a "import pdb" in your module and add a line
with  "pdb.set_trace()"  to start debugging from this 
line on. Then start your script from within emacs.

Debugging is still done with commandline but emacs 
automagically show all the sources with the current line
in its editor window.

I'm still looking for a real graphically debugger though.

Carl

max khesin <max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com> wrote in message news:<jkL0c.94$c73.143227 at twister.nyc.rr.com>...
> Hi all,
> I was takling to someone who has been using Jython for a while. Their 
> biggest complaint is the luck of a good debugger. I was really 
> surprised. Isn't there anything decent out there?
> thanks,
> max


From wweston at att.net  Wed Mar 31 09:22:38 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:22:38 GMT
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
In-Reply-To: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <OuAac.7999$He5.159271@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Derek Fountain wrote:
> I'm coming to Tkinter from Tcl/Tk. In Tcl I can get a variable in an event
> using the %<X> substitution mechanism. For example, I can set up a command
> like:
> 
>  entry .e -validate 1 -vcmd "checkkey %d"
> 
> knowing that the '%d' will be replaced by something useful - whether the
> entry widget has recieved an insert or deletion in this case. The checkkey
> procedure will recieve "insert", "delete" or whatever as its first
> parameter.
> 
> What is the Tkinter way of getting that %d value?

Derek,
f = Entry()
...
v = StringVar()
v.set("test")
f["textvariable"] = v

print v.get()



From ark at acm.org  Mon Mar 15 19:38:09 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:38:09 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <R%r5c.29187$H44.540740@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403151632.35496ee6 at posting.google.com...

> is there a rationale for the following behavior:
>
>   >>> a = (1,2)
>   >>> b = (1,2)
>   >>> a is b
>   False
>   >>> a = "12"
>   >>> b = "12"
>   >>> a is b
>   True

Probably an accident of implementation.  Consider:

>>> a = "1 2"
>>> b = "1" + " 2"
>>> a is b
False

and, for that matter:

>>> a = (1, 2)
>>> b = a
>>> a is b
True

Is there a reason that you care about this behavior?




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 31 19:45:30 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:45:30 -0500
Subject: BayPIGgies: April 8, 7:30pm
Message-ID: <20040401004530.GA18489@panix.com>

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs March 11 at 7:30pm.  This
meeting will have two sessions: 

A Practical Perspective on Python Performance
Jimmy Retzlaff <jimmy at retzlaff.com>

Jimmy will discuss a number of lessons learned regarding performance in
a relatively large client-server Python application. Concepts including
when, what, and how to optimize will be discussed. Technologies including
extension modules, Pyrex
(http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/), and Psyco
(http://psyco.sourceforge.net/) will be briefly compared. The talk will
conclude with some thoughts about the potential performance benefits of
dynamic typing over static typing.


Toying With Python - Highlighting "Keywords" in a Body of HTML Text
Danny Yoo <dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>

Danny will demonstrate several approaches to solving a "simple" text
processing problem including several wrong turns along the way to show
what not to do. Both correctness and performance will be important in
this problem. The tutorial should briefly cover: brute-force searching,
dictionaries, regular expressions, and if we have time, maybe even
something like the Aho-Corasick automaton.


BayPIGgies meetings are in Stanford, California.  For more information
and directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/


Advance notice: The May 13 meeting will have a PyCon trip report from
Guido van Rossum and Aahz.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk



From peter at semantico.com  Fri Mar 12 05:39:40 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:39:40 +0000
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <du77jxqbd8f.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>
	<405185f5$0$16368$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<du77jxqbd8f.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <4051936c$0$2136$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> You missed Josiah's point (at least as I understood it) - the idea was
> to show how painful programming can be, and then experience the
> revelation of switching to Python. It's a standard practice in some
> religious circles, where people are guided to wallow in remorse of
> original sins and other unpleasant stuff, and then feel the relief of
> divine forgiveness.

Then you need to throw in some Intel assembly!

> As a side note, Ruby has no OO advantages over Python. This has been
> discussed in this newsgroup extensively.

Never said it had but I was aiming for a wide range of languages to show 
that TIMTOWTDI. A good programmer should be familiar with a wide range 
of languages and techniques. Prolog shows a style of programming, 
declarative, that is not easy to experience in Python (or Perl or Ruby 
or C but perhaps in Icon), a more procedural type of language.

If all you want her to be is a Python zealot then go ahead, but you 
would be doing her a greater service by allowing her to become a good 
programmer.

I take it her name isn't Josiah Jr?


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 16:47:46 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 22:47:46 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3snp3$2bbe7o$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyfd671hq7x.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>

Stefan Axelsson <crap1234 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> Please also note that I'm by no means trying to change your opinion
> on the matter,

The thought never crossed my mind.

> I see this more as a panel style debate.

Indeed.

> > Forgive me if I am wrong ... but typeful programming is more of a
> > programming style rather than a property of a (static) type system, is
> > it not? I realize that Haskell encourages typeful programming by its
> > very nature, but that doesn't make typeful programming an property of
> > the type system.
> 
> Yes, it's not really a requirement of the type system.

> In fact dynamic typing can be simulated by a polymorphic static type
> system (I haven't got the reference handy, follow up if you're
> interested),

If you happen to find it, drop me a line, please. (Don't go too far
out of your way though ... my stack of interesting things I want to
read is mostly monotonically growing :-( )

> The same is true of unittesting as you go, though, there's nothing
> in dynamic typing to enforce it.

Of course. I never intended to imply that test suites are some sort of
magic. They require hard work to build and maintain, but it is work
which is well worth the investment, in my experience. But, in my
experience, they are also harder to write in (explicitly) statically
typed languages. (And it is my perception that many people believe
that static typing systems will do for them, for free, that which, in
reality, they have to do for themselves with the help of test suites.)

(Sorry for being repetitive, but my teaching experience tells me that
people often need repeated exposure to the same idea, to help it sink
in, and I'm hoping that there are some lurkers who might be
susceptible to indoctrination :-)

> But the interesting point is whether static type systems somehow
> magically makes good programmers from bad, and that's not true
> IMHO.

Well, yes, that would indeed be magic :-)

> That's not to say that I prefer a bad programmer from having a
> static type system, the more hurdles you place in the way of the truly
> bad programmers of which industry is chock full (as a student of mine
> with experience from industry once exclaimed: "But most programmers
> are BAD!"). I'm talking about any type of static type system here,
> while I'd say that the type system of 'C' isn't that much of
> hinderance to the gifted, it decreases the productivity of the clods
> to managable proportions (I'm talking about the programmers with
> negative productivity here).

I'm ambivalent about this point. On the one hand I share your view; on
the other I think that removing the irrelevant obstacles that
(explicit) static typing systems create, would actually make quite a
few previously negatively productive programmers become positively
productive.

Heh, now it might sound like I'm saying "dynamic typing magically
makes good programmers from bad". I'm not. I'm saying that static
typing systems make most programmers less productive ... and if your
productivity is around zero, then the rigidity of the type system
could well be the difference between + and -.

> In this setting I'd say that Java is a win,

You mean "damage limitation" and enabling "primate programming"
(http://www.newtechusa.com/ppi/main.asp) ?  Yes, that's the whole
purpose of Java, as far as I can see.

> I've found that any enforcement mechanism helps. The harder it
> becomes to skirt the requirements of the process the more it will be
> followed.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I (want to) believe that programming is a
highly skilled activity, pursued by dedicated and creatively
intelligent practitioners. Following process requirements is not the
way to get the best results, in that case. If by programming you
understand "primate programming", then straitjacketing is necessary, I
agree.

> A type system has an advantage here in that it *cannot* be
> circumvented while it's trivial to write no or bad unit test so that
> you can ship your code to the integration step.

Again, difference in philosophy. I assume that I am trying to write
the best product I can. Writing bad tests is not in my interest. I
acknowledge that this is probably not the case in most real-life
situations.

Conclusion: I'm naively, romantically optimistic about what
programming is :-)

> It's interesting to note that Ericsson drew the conclusion that C++
> was to blaim for the failed billion dollar AXEn project. Of course the
> choice of language had very little to do with that.

But that won't deter me from quoting it to all and sundry :-)

(Do you have a reference to this conclusion ?)


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Mar  2 13:34:08 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:34:08 -0600
Subject: mimic -i from script
Message-ID: <m2znazp07z.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


Is it possible at the end of a script to issue some python command
that will cause the python shell to open as if the -i flag had been
used


Eg, 

  > python -i somefile.py 

and 

  > python somefile.py 

will both behave the same if somefile.py ends with the right magic
incantation?

Thanks,
John Hunter



From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 12:47:55 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:47:55 +0200
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELGJNAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELGJNAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4068614B.8050207@stackless.com>

Tim Peters wrote:

...

> In all CPythons released to date, you'll probably find that
> 
>     temp = v[i]
>     v[i] = v[j]
>     v[j] = temp
> 
> runs faster than
> 
>     v[i], v[j] = v[j], v[i]
> 
> but that's an implementation accident that may get cured in Python 2.4 (it
> has to do with the exact sequence of bytecodes generated, and the latter way
> currently burns time building then tearing apart an intermediate 2-tuple).

And as far as I can remember, Psyco already optimizes the
tuple form. I'd stick with it.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From nir1408 at ziaran.org  Mon Mar  1 10:30:15 2004
From: nir1408 at ziaran.org (ziaran)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:30:15 +0200
Subject: Group comment
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40435728$1@news.bezeqint.net>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     ketulp> Can I comment a group of statements together i.e
>     ketulp> If I a 4 statements say:
>     ketulp> i=1
>     ketulp> i+=1
>     ketulp> print i
>     ketulp> print i+1
> 
>     ketulp> Instead of commenting each satement iindividually by # is there
>     ketulp> something which allws me to comment these 4 statements in one go
>     ketulp> as in C++ using /*...*/
> 
> Many people use triple-quoted strings for this:
> 
>     """
>     i=1
>     i+=1
>     print i
>     print i+1
>     """
> 
> It's not a comment, strictly speaking, however it generally achieves the
> desired results.  Even less comment-like is "if False:":
> 
>     if False:
>         i=1
>         i+=1
>         print i
>         print i+1
> 
> That has the disadvantage that you need to reindent the lines of interest.
> 
> Skip
> 

And keep the """ at the same identation level of the clause!


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 16:03:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:03:58 -0600
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
In-Reply-To: <cab22418.0403231139.39085891@posting.google.com>
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
	<cab22418.0403231139.39085891@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16480.42558.327042.848732@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jim> With decorators, the function definition itself is normal (and
    Jim> therefore should not be indented); it is the decorators that run at
    Jim> an unexpected time.

    Jim> using:
    Jim>     decorator1
    Jim>     decorator2
    Jim>     decorator3
    Jim> def a (args):
    Jim>     pass

Note that the undent at the end of the using: block also implies that "we're
done" with the block.  If I wrote

    using:
        decorator1
        decorator2
        decorator3
    def a (args):
        pass
    def b (args):
        pass

would a and b both be decorated or just a?  What about if I wrote

    using:
        decorator1
        decorator2
        decorator3
    x = really_complex_default()
    def a (arg1, arg2=x):
        pass

Would a be decorated or not?

Skip



From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Wed Mar 31 09:52:09 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 06:52:09 -0800
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
	<ZrGdnR9BRZRIfvTdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<eeydnYRUpqQM1_fdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0403310652.5acb85a3@posting.google.com>

Turns out the that the function with the line of code PyChecker
complained about was called during import.  Thanks much for your help.

Olaf


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<eeydnYRUpqQM1_fdRVn-sQ at powergate.ca>...
> Olaf Meding wrote:
> 
> >>... put the failing code in a function ...
> > 
> > This line of code is already inside some function!
> >   s = sys.stdin.read(4)
> > Causes this PyChecker error:
> >   IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> > 
> > Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> Are you _certain_ that this function is not being executed
> during import?  I'd be surprised if the form of the error
> messages (warnings?) which PyChecker outputs exactly matches
> what you show above, which strongly appears to be a standard
> Python exception (and which would therefore be generated _only_
> when the code is being executed).
> 
> Can you strip out all the non-relevant code in that module
> in such a way that it still produces the error, and post
> the failing code (assuming it's only a half dozen lines or
> so)?  Then at least someone else can try running it and
> see what's going on, or we can point out the error of your
> ways if that's the situation...
> 
> -Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 10 10:14:14 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:14:14 -0600
Subject: Reading from stdin
In-Reply-To: <c2nab0$lr7$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
References: <c2nab0$lr7$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <16463.12486.353303.917241@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Colin> However, I want the python script to print out the numbers as it
    Colin> gets them, since there could be hours/days between numbers - not
    Colin> a very efficient C program :). Actually, I would like to
    Colin> read-a-line/ print-a-line/ read-a-line/etc

    Colin> I have tried things like 'sys.stdin.read*' with no success.

Have you tried this?

    import sys
    for line in sys.stdin:
        print line.strip()

Skip



From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 21 22:31:14 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:31:14 +1200
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.219.1079906815.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.219.1079906815.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3lmm2$29vrhq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Second, there's the question of "what is an iterable"? Some solutions:

But by far the best solution, IMO, is to re-design the API
so that you don't have to ask the question at all!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From kylotan at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  7 11:39:36 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 08:39:36 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
Message-ID: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>

Today I tried to implement some sort of unit testing into my program
for the first time, and must admit to being a little disillusioned
with the process. Mainly, my issue is that in my program, the classes
are so tightly coupled that testing in isolation is next to
impossible.

The main problem stems from the fact that I try to ensure that all my
objects are created in a working state. This often means passing
various other objects to the __init__ function. In turn, these other
objects rely on others, and on general initialisation procedures. The
end result is that there are very few objects I can truly test in
isolation; I have to initialise at least 80% of the system before I
can even create most of my objects. This ends up meaning that unit
testing isn't really testing a single unit at all, and in fact isn't
much more precise than liberally using asserts in the normal code.

One way out of this would be to reduce coupling. This would allow me
to test objects in relative isolation, but it would increase the
amount of explicit coupling code that I'd have to execute normally.
This extra code then becomes a potential source of new bugs.

Has anybody else come to similar conclusions?

-- 
Ben Sizer


From e9526547 at stud3.tuwien.ac.at  Fri Mar 26 09:03:20 2004
From: e9526547 at stud3.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Straschil)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 14:03:20 GMT
Subject: Calling function keywords from a dictionary
References: <slrnc682dt.ht.e9526547@stud3.tuwien.ac.at>
	<c41a5j$l0m$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc68e18.7g9.e9526547@stud3.tuwien.ac.at>

Thanks, that was exaclty what I needed, works cool now!

AXEL.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar  6 02:01:51 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:01:51 -0800
Subject: Enumerating words and Adding integer, character and string
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E87@opus.amorhq.net>

dont bother wrote:
> > 1. How do I make a vector of words in a file.
> > I want to have this file:
> > 1 Alpha
> > 2 Beta
> > 3 Gamma
> > 
> > I just dont want to write it/print it instead I want a
> > mapping. A vector kind of thing whose first attribute
> > is interger second is the 'word'

>>> dict([(index + 1, line.strip()) for index, line in
enumerate(open(r"C:\words.txt"))])
{1: 'Alpha', 2: 'Beta', 3: 'Gamma'}


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From danslists at fastmail.fm  Tue Mar 23 12:19:21 2004
From: danslists at fastmail.fm (Dan Boitnott)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:19:21 -0600
Subject: Thread performance
In-Reply-To: <74dd441a.0403220634.67d0a0c9@posting.google.com>
References: <74dd441a.0403220634.67d0a0c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1060scrmh9ah131@corp.supernews.com>

Moe A wrote:
> I'm writing a multi-threaded app in python that uses pygtk..and
> obviously the performance of subroutines invoked from a thread rather
> than from a GUI callback leave something to be desired.  i cant
> implement a simple lock system because most of the threads are started
> from the various modules i'm using.  so is there some way to
> commandeer the majority of processing power from one of the threads
> without making the gui unresponsive?

Check out this article:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pythrd.html#author1

It describes using generators as substitutes for threads.  This approach 
works by moving the instruction pointer around instead of switching 
contexts on and off the processor.

Dan Boitnott


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 14 13:12:22 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:12:22 -0500
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c327a3$5uu$1@sea.gmane.org>


"kbass" <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059 at fe3.columbus.rr.com...
> I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job market looks
> for programming using Python. I really don't see many jobs (probably one
or
> two) that require Python experience at all. Most DBA and SA positions
that I
> have seen require Perl and most development position require Java or C++
so
> how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little to no
chance
> that an employer will require the use of Python or consider using Python
> over other programming languages such as Java?

It is not no chance.  For instance, Python (desired, a plus, etc) appears 7
times on this page:  http://www.google.com/jobs/eng/sw.html

tjr







From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 15:05:15 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:05:15 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <jf7b60lucu40v49epdbeca3kvp65d25j2d@4ax.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<mailman.470.1080395929.742.python-list@python.org>
	<jf7b60lucu40v49epdbeca3kvp65d25j2d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c44mvq$sf4$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>At any rate, I agree with John that the Prothon folks got this particular
>>bit dead wrong.  If they wanted to avoid tab/space problems they should have
>>required that all indentation use only spaces, not only tabs.
> 
> The advantage of tabs ( a small one in my opinion ) is that the reader
> can adjust the actual spacing to his preference.

Funny, but I can do a search and replace to do the same.  In fact, I use 
search and replace to get rid of the tabs that newbies use in Python code. *

> Another advantage is
> that you can add leading spaces for purely cosmetic reasons (lining up
> columns in a continuation line ).  The tabs control the syntax.

When you have line continuations, spacing on the subsequent line doesn't 
matter, so this "advantage" you cite, is not an advantage.


> The solution I believe, is to have a special 'publishing' mode where
> tabs are replaced by the character sequence '.   ' with however many
> spaces the sender wants.  The dots actually make large, deeply-nested
> blocks easier to read.

For you, it makes large, deeply-nested blocks easier to read.  That may 
not be the case for other people.  Furthermore, having a special 
"publishing" mode, in order to replace tabs with spaces (and a .), is 
just trying to fix the problem of tabs, which can be fixed much easier 
with not using tabs in the first place.


> Of course, we will need a matching import mode, converting the
> dot-space sequences back to tabs.

* The trick is that '.   ' is a valid stream of characters not inside an 
indent sequence:

def blah():
     """I am a docstring with some bullet-like things.
.   bullet point 1
.   bullet point 2
.   bullet point 3
.   bullet point 4
"""
When you replace '.   ' with tab characters, you end up changing the 
contents of the docstring.  It also makes it less straightforward to 
give code to people who /don't/ have editors that are aware of this 
arbitrary method of representing tabs.

Tabs as scope was a mistake, Guido has pronounced it as such.  The fact 
that Prothon is using it as its /only/ scope delimiter, means that they 
are making an even bigger mistake, that they won't be able to get out of 
easily if/when they get many users.

  - Josiah


From pythonhda at yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux  Wed Mar 31 17:33:36 2004
From: pythonhda at yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux (pythonhda)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:33:36 -0500
Subject: httplib HTTPConnection request problem
References: <1a378204.0403311002.7f8febea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040331173336.4264fae8.pythonhda@yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux>

First make sure that you urlencode the xml like the docs do:

params = urllib.urlencode({'xml': xml}) 

Make sure the key is something the server is expecting. Then make sure you call request properly:

self.h1.request('POST', self.server+"/servlet/webdav.calendar/conflict.xml",
		params, headers)

Notice that params comes before headers.

Not tested but that looks like what your problem might be...

phda


On 31 Mar 2004 10:02:45 -0800
scummer at 3squares.com (scummer) wrote:

> 			#headers = {"Accept-Language": "de, en-us;q=0.2", "Translate": "f",
> "User-Agent": "SLOX HolidayInfo", "Host": confDict['server'],
> "Content-Length": str(len(xml)), "Authorization": "Basic
> "+str(confDict['base64Auth'])}
> 			#self.h1.request('POST',
> self.server+"/servlet/webdav.calendar/conflict.xml", headers, xml)


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Tue Mar  2 03:19:02 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:19:02 +0100 
Subject: Binaries for Swish-E and Python 2.3 for Windows
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F003915F13@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Hi all,

does anyone has a precompiled version for Python 2.3 on Windows for the
following library:

http://jibe.freeshell.org/bits/SwishE/
<http://jibe.freeshell.org/bits/SwishE/> 

I'm trying to access a Swish-E database from Python, but I don't have access
to a compiler unfortunately.

Cheers,


pieter

Creo
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com <www.creo.com> 

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)

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From kbk at shore.net  Mon Mar  1 12:11:39 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:11:39 GMT
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87wu644hmc.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com writes:

> Can I comment a group of statements together i.e
> If I a 4 statements say:

IDLE has a block comment feature.
-- 
KBK


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar 15 11:58:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:58:00 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org><4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c34nam$clc$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Peter Hickman" <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message
news:4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk...
> Perhaps you should read the following where Guido van Rossum talks about
> typing in Python. Here he is contrasting strongly typed languages with
> Python.
>
> "In a strongly typed language,

Type, in the sense used here, is an attribute of identifiers/variables or
an attribute of objects, but not, properly speaking, an attribute of
languages.  So what Guido seems to mean here, following common usage
understood by the interviewer and judging from the rest of the quote, is a
language with strongly typed identifiers, which Python is not.  It does
have typed objects.  The object data model of Python (and other languages)
is sufficiently different from the slice-of-linear-memory data model of C
(and other languages) that one needs to be really careful in applying the
same adjectives to both.

Terry J. Reedy






From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Mar 25 07:55:06 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 04:55:06 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403250455.6c6f882f@posting.google.com>

Here is an useful reference (including a Python implementation of
the Condorcet method):

http://electionmethods.org/

  Michele Simionato


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Mar 11 13:09:34 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:09:34 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<mailman.273.1079016210.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mcl6i1-i24.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> writes:

>[Cameron]
>> Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named function; 

>[Kyler]
>> How do you cleanly do that?
>> 	foo = range(-10, 10)
>> 	my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
>> 	bar = map(my_op, foo)

>foo = range(-10, 10)
>def my_op(x):
>    return float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
>bar = map(my_op, foo)

>...did I misunderstand?

Well, your solution depends on a global variable.  That's going to
get *really* ugly if we move beyond the trivial example given here.
There are other problems but they're apparently not obvious with 
that example.

How 'bout some non-working code to shine some more light on it?  (If
pressed, I should be able to come up with similar code that works!)

	def make_translation_function(GCPs, type, invert=False):
		if type == 'LSF' and len(GCPs) < 12:
			# Do lots of time-consuming magic to calculate A, B, ...
			return(
				lambda x, y: (
					x * A + y * B +
					x * y * C +
					...,
					x * G + y * H +
					x * y * I +
					...
				)
			)
		elif ... # Repeat lots of times for variations.

	map_im = foo.open('map.tif')
	map_translation = make_translation_function(map_im.get_GCPs, type='LSF')

	path_im = foo.open('path.tif')
	path_translation_i = make_translation_function(path_im.get_GCPs, type='LSF', invert=True)

	# Mark all points on map that are red in path.
	for (x, y) in all_red_pixels(path_im):
		(lon, lat) = path_translation_i(x, y)
		(x, y) = map_translation(lon, lat)
		map_im.putpixel((x, y), mark_val)

Now, let's pretend that this is part of a larger program that's doing lots
of things with, potentially, lots of images, and let's also say that we
allow user-defined/imported extensions to make_translation_function().
How are you going to make a *clean* solution using named functions?

--kyler


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Mar 13 00:24:19 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:24:19 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyfu10w68xo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <Xns94AB41289E78AJanC@213.119.4.35>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> schreef:

> What gives you that idea? There are no statically typed parameters in
> anything I have shown you (except the C++).
[...]
> I think you really should tell me what _your_ definition of static
> typing is, otherwise we're going to go around in circles for a very
> long time.

I think I didn't understand what exactly the "(x integer)" in that code 
was.  Now I think it's like a tuple (or something similar) that's passed 
to the code in the background that has to select the "wanted version" of 
a function or method at runtime.   :-)


So, what some people want is defining functions in a way similar to this:

def foo(a, b) for (type1, type2):
    print "type 1 & 2"

def foo(a, b) for (type3, type4):
    print "type 3 & 4"


-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From b.scharpf at tesionmail.de  Fri Mar  5 08:21:40 2004
From: b.scharpf at tesionmail.de (Bertram Scharpf)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 13:21:40 GMT
Subject: self for modules
Message-ID: <slrnc4gvn4.md9.b.scharpf@homer.bertram-scharpf>

Hi,

when I want to access the module itself, I can write

----
import sys
module_self = sys.modules[ __name__]
----

Is there a smarter way to do this?

On the other side, I could express my problem in the
following way: Is it legitimate to say

----
def f( d):
    d.update( { 'a': 'spam', 'b': 'eggs'})

f( vars())

print a, 'and', b
----

?

Thanks for your answers in advance.

Bertram


-- 
Bertram Scharpf
Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de


From luis_ at iname.com  Thu Mar  4 13:38:05 2004
From: luis_ at iname.com (Lupe)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:38:05 +0000
Subject: thank you all
References: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c2695v$1pm2b8$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c27t0l$1ji5oe$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>

Python is not only a great language but also have excellent people helping
other


Luis


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 17:14:37 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:14:37 GMT
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604 at posting.google.com>, Eric wrote:
> Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc63985.3n2.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
>> (The crux of the flamewar is that Condorcet tends to elect
>> "compromise candidates" who are few peoples' favourite but palatable to
>> most, while IRV is more likely to elect people that are the first choice
>> of a large block but hated by others.  Which is preferable is a matter
>> of philosophy.)

<snip>

> I cannot see how IRV and a Condorcet method would differ should a
> certain candidate receive a large block of first place votes. For if a
> certain Candidate is the first choice of a large block, it has a
> distinct advantage in both IRV and Condorcet over all the other
> candidates, but will not necessarily be the winner in either.

I think the contentious scenario was two large opposed blocks and a
small centrist block (C):

49  A > C > B
48  B > C > A
 3  C > B=A

In Condorcet, we get:

 A>B 49
 A>C 0
 B>A 48
 B>C 48
 C>A 51
 C>B 52

So C is the winner.  But, say the IRV proponents, only 3% of the
population actually want C to win!

With IRV, we note that C has the fewest 1st place votes and drop all C
ballots.  Now we have:

 49  A > B
 48  B > A
  3  (no preference)

So A wins by an incredibly narrow margin.

Centrists say that Condorcet is correct, because obviously we should
have the winner that everybody at least mildly approves of.  Partisans
say that if the A/B split is pretty traditional and shifts by only a few
percentage points, then endorsing Condorcet is essentially endorsing a
centrist as an acclaimed winner.  Many (at least, the vocal ones) appear
to prefer the 50% chance that their party will get in for a cycle even
at the cost of a 50% chance of total failure.

But then, if they *really* didn't want C to win, they'd vote them last,
wouldn't they?  I'm just reporting the flamewar here, I'm not saying I
agree - I'm a Condorcet fan myself, but then, I'd vote for the centrist
party if there was one.  (Well, there is or was in my country, but
that's another story...)

To avoid tarring the IRV proponents as extremists, I should mention that
another argument in favour is that it's a smaller step from IRV to a
proportional method like STV.  So electoral reform in the USA, for
instance, it makes more sense to use IRV to elect the President and STV
to choose a proportional Congress than it does to have completely
separate methods for each vote.

Anyway, the real question in this forum is whether Condorcet is a good
method for voting on a PEP.  The standard objections - especially the
difficulty to explain to a non-technical audience - don't seem to apply
here.

Joe


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 11:19:09 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:19:09 +0100
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
In-Reply-To: <c27jpk$419$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
	<c27jpk$419$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c27ksb$4u7$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Maas schrieb:
> --- throw:
> 
 > try:
 >     raise Exception, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
 > except e:
 >     print e

Sorry, lazy copy. Correction:

try:
     raise Exception, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
except Exception, e:
     print e

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar  6 14:08:58 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:08:58 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95><c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu><17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01><s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com><4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com><f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com><Yx3RAls/KDUL089yn@the-wire.com><6ubf401c2qtarfoa36m03572dprj0h9kkl@4ax.com>
	<4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.9.1078465677.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<ktog40pldolvl1nccftd5up8ve3pub55d2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <fd8k40hh2bpfd9paim3hnc9n4iroeb4l31@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:39:49 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:47:35 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
>wrote:
>>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>>news:4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv at 4ax.com...
>>> Actually, I think this is rather ugly. The string 'method' still looks
>>> like a 'function'.  We really need a 'join' method that takes a list
>>> of strings as its 'front-door' object and the 'joiner' as its optional
>>> 'side-door' input.
>>
>>A said in previous discussions, the second parameter of the join function
>>is *any* iterable of strings, and not just lists.  Your proposal would
>>either cripple or omit this generality, depending on whether you meant it
>>as a replacement of or redundant supplement to the current
>>joiner.join(iterable_of_strings) method.
>
>I would make it a supplement and treat the issue of deprecation the
>same as other string functions which now have a (redundant) method
>equivalent.  Also, I would keep the same level of generality in the
>new method.  If 'seq' is a sequence of strings (list or iterable), and
>'sep' is the desired separator, we have now:
>sep.join(seq)
>and I would like to see an equivalent
>seq.join(sep)
>
>I just did a search on 'join strings group:comp.lang.python' and came
>up with 1200 hits!  Looks like I need to do some research before
>wading into these waters.  I'll post a new topic, if I decide to
>pursue this discussion, since we are getting a bit off on this one.  I
>would also like to see a 'map' method.  With 'map' and 'join' methods
>we could greatly improve the readability of long sequences of
>operations on strings (like Ruby).  Again, I need to do some research.

OK. I spent a few hours reading some old threads, and I see there are
a lot of discussions already on implementation problems, and
aesthetics.  I really can't discuss the implementation problems, other
than to say I have faith that if something *should* be done, it *can*
be done, as it *has* been done in other languages.  On the aesthetics,
I am totally agnostic. :>)  My concern is *usability* for technical
professionals who are non-programmers.  If anyone can point me to some
good threads, please do.

As we are getting way off-topic here, I stated a new thread "Need
better string methods".  See you there.

-- Dave



From u at g0ertz.de  Sat Mar 20 18:03:28 2004
From: u at g0ertz.de (Ulrich Goertz)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 00:03:28 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 and data_files
References: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net>
	<mailman.189.1079799034.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n06bktof.fsf@u-go.net>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> Ulrich Goertz <u at g0ertz.de> writes:
> > Now I have the data files which I need in the data_files list given
> > as an argument to the setup method, and py2exe does copy them to
> > the dist subdirectory all right. However, sys.path[0] is not the 
> > path where the program resides, but the path + 'library.zip'.

> There is a sample 'hello.py' in the py2exe\samples\simple subdirectory,
> which lets you explore the differences between the normal Python script,
> and the executable.  I don't have time now - more later.

Thanks for the pointer! I had briefly looked at the setup.py script in 
samples/simple before, but not at hello.py itself ... 

Thanks for writing py2exe, and kind regards,

Ulrich


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 25 14:51:57 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:51:57 -0600
Subject: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. - Bayesian
	Filter detected spam
In-Reply-To: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFE@pippin.int.etrials.com>
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFE@pippin.int.etrials.com>
Message-ID: <20040325195156.GD16608@unpythonic.net>

> Bayesian Filter detected spam

huh -- sorry your filter thought I was spam, I'm glad you found my
response.  I've had very good luck with spambayes, personally.

Here's one page I found with an explanation of how more standard
floating-point numbers are stored:
    http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/Floating_Point_Numbers.html
The most important difference between the IEEE formats and the IBM
format is that the radix is 16 instead of 2.  I think there's also a
terminlogy error--the page says that the significand (mantissa) is
stored in "two's compliment binary", but this isn't true.  It's
unsigned.  The sign is stored separately.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 02:17:16PM -0500, Ian Sparks wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> Thanks so much for this, it works fine on the rest of my data too. I'm going to have to create code that will do the reverse conversion too so I want to make sure I understand what happened here so I can apply the same concepts. I have some instructions on the reverse-process and I believe its mostly bit-shifting.
> 
> This is somewhat "teach a man a fish" so I appreciate you're bearing with me on this basic CS stuff. I think I'm nearly there...
> 
> def ibm360_decode(s):
> 
>     #Get element 0 of the unpack tuple
>     #struct format : > = Big Endian, Q means unsigned long long 
>     #not sure why we need an unsigned long long ? 
>     #think its because we need that to do bitwise operations?
I used Q, because the data is 64 bits, and I wanted to get it in a
single Python variable.  I could have used 'l, m = struct.unpack(">LL", s)'
to convert the string into a pair integers, but that would have been
less convenient because the mantissa would be split between l and m.

>     exponent_with_sign = (l >> 56)
> 
>     #But we still have our sign-bit at the left side so we've got 8 digits
>     #we need to cut off that extra digit
>     #we can do this using the bitwise & to compare our number against 00111111 
>     # (0x7f - 64 == 127 - 64 == 63 = 111111)
>     # e.g. for 7 with a positive sign we'd have
>     # 7  = 10000111    (looks like 135)
>     # 63 = 00111111 &
>     #      --------
>     #       0000111 = 7
>     #  
>     # But I'm clearly missing something here because 63 is only 6 binary-digits long and we need
>     # to cut off the 8th...127 would seem to be more appropriate (but doesn't work). Umph ?
> 
>     exponent = exponent_with_sign & 0x7f - 64

(exponent_with_sign & 0x7f) extracts the 7 bits of the exponent.
However, the exponent is biased.  Instead of being stored as a signed
number, the unsigned (exponent + bias) is stored.  The subtraction
removes the bias.
    exponent_with_sign_and_bias = (l>>56)
    exponent_with_bias = exponent_with_sign_and_bias & 0x7f # 7 bits
    exponent = exponent_with_bias - 64

>     #Ok, moving on. 
>     #The mantissa is the last 56 bits (reading from left->right) so we need to cut off the first
>     #8 bits which means ANDing (&) with a large number representing all 1's for 56 of those bits
>     #and zero for the others e.g. 00000000111111...1111
> 
>     #The / by 16. ** 14	has me scratching my head, I admit. Our mantissa is firmly planted in the
>     #right hand side of our binary number isn't it? But we're dividing by a massive number....?
> 
>     mantissa = (l & ((1L<<56) - 1)) / (16. ** 14)

The mantissa is an unsigned binary number.  If you treat it as a float,
the radix point (decimal point) is actually to the left of the first bit
of mantissa.  The division by a large power of 16 accomplishes this.

>     #The instructions said the true exponent is 16 * the exponent value we extracted, again, not
>     #sure why we're multiplying the mantissa up too?
> 
>     return [1,-1][sign] * (16**exponent) * mantissa

The exponent shifts the radix point again, to its final position.
When the exponent changes by 1, the radix point moves by one hex digit,
or 4 bits.

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 07:40:44 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:40:44 -0500
Subject: In what python release was this introduced..
In-Reply-To: <74dd441a.0403220126.12ec063f@posting.google.com>
References: <74dd441a.0403220126.12ec063f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <K8OdnQp1Cq9RQ8PdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Moe A wrote:

> i need to list dependencies for my package & was wondering in what
> python release could you start making 'in <string>' calls with more
> than one char..eg:
> 
> "JESUS" in bible
> 
> instead of
> 
> "J" in bible

Andrew Kuchling's pages are always a good source of this sort of
info, well worth reading as you would read the FAQ:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/node17.html#SECTION0001710000000000000000

-Peter


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Mar 31 02:53:44 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:53:44 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<0omac.74900$cx5.32735@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BD467AF47A5JanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <RNuac.77141$cx5.67364@fed1read04>

I just downloaded it.  I'll give it a try.

"JanC" <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns94BD467AF47A5JanC at 213.119.4.35...
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> schreef:
>
> > I really really try to remember to quote from below. If you go through
my
> > posts you will see that I remember most of the time. The last few days I
> > have been reponding to four or five mailing lists after months of only
> > coding and my fingers are worn out.
>
> Try OE-QuoteFix, it can help you, and it's free:
> <http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/>
>
> Also, I think OE allows you to select the text-to-quote _before_ replying.
>
> -- 
> JanC
>
> "Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
> RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9




From eantoniutti at univ.trieste.it  Tue Mar  2 07:55:51 2004
From: eantoniutti at univ.trieste.it (Etienne Antoniutti Di Muro)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:55:51 +0100
Subject: read(): 1st argument can't be coerced to byte[]
Message-ID: <BC6A42E7.DC5%eantoniutti@units.it>

Hi there everybody,
I want to build a WEB Service client for a test Web Service of mine.
I am using jython.
The code is as follow:

(...)
1 response = request.POST() # posts SOAP to the web service  and waits for
2                           # response
3 instr = response.getInputStream()
4 reader = Sax2.Reader()
5 doc = reader.fromStream(instr)
(...)

Well, at line 5, I get the error:

read(): 1st argument can't be coerced to byte[]

Does not seem to be a DOM parsing problem.

Any tip about this ?


Thanks in advance
Etienne





From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Mon Mar  1 14:58:43 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:58:43 +0100
Subject: How to use __getattribute__ to access a class attribute?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1078115418.22701.python-list@python.org>
References: <40425d1b$0$41761$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<mailman.6.1078115418.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4043956c$0$41749$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

Shalabh Chaturvedi schreef:
> Ruud de Jong wrote:
> 
>> I have the situation where I need to construct the name
>> of a static method, and then retrieve the corresponding
>> function from a class object.
> 
> 
> If what you're trying to do is get C.a (where C is the class and a is 
> the name of the staticmethod) but all you have is the class C and a 
> string mname = "a", then just getattr(C, mname) should work. Generally 
> this works for any attribute access where you have the attribute name in 
> another variable.

Erh, hmm, rrriight... Built-in functions. <blush/>
Completely forgot about that one -- too focussed
on trying to do everything with object methods and such.
I really need to pay more attention to those built-in functions.

Well, that solves my immediate problem.
I knew there had to be a simple solution :-)

> 
> Another way to get the naked function, which also works for 
> classmethods, is to do C.__dict__['a']. See comments below that explain 
> what you see.

Well, that's not true, at least not on my system (XP, Python 2.3.3):

 >>> class C(object):
	def a():
		print "static method a"
	a = staticmethod(a)

	
 >>> C.__dict__['a']
<staticmethod object at 0x00AADD10>

 > [snipped]

> To repeat the same experiment, you should call 
> type(C).__getattribute__(C, 'a'). Note that in this case C *has* its own 
> __getattribute__ attribute (which is meant for instances of C, not C 
> itself). 

C did not have its own __getattribute__ method. It inherited it
from object.

I still find this whole thing slightly ambiguous.
A class C is itself an object, an instance of 'type',
just as x = C() leads to x being an instance of class C.
But x.__getattribute__ and C.__getattribute__ return
different objects.

> In fact you do this later, and it works. Hmm, at first glance 
> I'd expect what you do above to return an exception if passed C instead 
> of an instance of C (like any other well behaved method). I don't know 
> why that doesn't happen.

I would also have expected an exception. The strange thing, as I see
it, is that x.__getattribute__ and type(C).__getattribute__ both give 
the correct result, but that C.__getattribute__ *almost* gives the
correct result, but stops at calling the __get__ function on the
desciptor object.

Anyway, now that you've kindly reminded me of the existance of getattr,
I'll not spend any more time trying to understand this.

Thanks,

Ruud



From paul at fxtech.com  Fri Mar 12 14:21:41 2004
From: paul at fxtech.com (Paul Miller)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:21:41 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <ba1450tvgdttth3ddu88qjevsv9k5b1tpb@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<grn4c.2753$G3.22466@localhost>
	<ba1450tvgdttth3ddu88qjevsv9k5b1tpb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040312131911.06642ec0@mail.fxtech.com>


> >> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when what you
> >> need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace every
> >> reference to objects in the old module with references to the new
> >> objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when those
> >> references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.

...

> > I don't consider this a problem with reload, I consider it a design
> > defect.  If there's a need for such a thing, it should be designed in to

...

>I agree, most programs should not have 'reload()' designed in, and
>those that do, should be well aware of its limitations.  I'm concerned

I've been working around the problem with reload by loading my modules into 
self-contained interpreters, using the multiple interpreter API. This all 
worked wonderfully until Python 2.3, where it all sort of broke.

I would be able to do to all with one interpreter, *if* reload did "what I 
expect".

Clearly, there needs to be SOME solution to this problem, as I'm definitely 
not the only person trying to do this.

(the context comes from wanting to use Python modules as "plugins" to a C++ 
application - and to aid in development, be able to reload plugins on the 
fly if there code is changed).





From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 05:39:51 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:39:51 -0800
Subject: proper use of braces in Python
In-Reply-To: <c4e5gr$4qi$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>	<mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4e5gr$4qi$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <406A9FF7.50404@mlug.missouri.edu>


> Why not? It's a cheap way to increase your LOC/month power. :)

Good point, but that is why I like to make sure my code is well 
documented. The more detailed the code is documented the higher the 
LOC/month. :)

Actually, I do document rather well usually. I'm especially fond of 
pydoc allowing a program to access it's own documentation. I love being 
able to get the help for my XML-RPC methods just by formatting (as HTML) 
the existing Python docs for those methods. Very tidy.



From cspeech at chorus.net  Mon Mar  1 22:23:07 2004
From: cspeech at chorus.net (Paul H. Milenkovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:23:07 -0600
Subject: how to use activex in wxpython with event support
Message-ID: <001301c40005$af2831e0$29fd0b45@cspeech>

I think the problem is with ActiveX controls developed in Delphi -- I am having the same CONNECT_E_CANNOTCONNECT error message at that same point when I try to use ActiveX control I have developed in Delphi.

The problem is in the call to the Advise function to an object implementing IConnectionPoint, and the problem is that the event sink (i.e. the interface class to receive events on the Python side) doesn't support the required IDispatch interface (the def Advise() function  in the source code asks for an IDispatch of what I believe is the event sink).  I am going to look if the generated wrapper for a Delphi ActiveX is different than for a Microsoft implemented ActiveX.
-------------- next part --------------
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From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 00:28:15 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:28:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to read between xml tags?
Message-ID: <20040310052815.91763.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a news corpus that looks like the following.  I
want to do a statistical survey of the words used in
the news report per se.  So, I must not consider those
words in the XML tags.

I know that we can use the sgmllib and strip the SML
tags.  But what I want is this:

1. The read operation must either read a full tag or
ignore the tag.

2. If the read operation reads between <P> and </P>,
then it must reads the whole thing between those 2
tags all at once.

How can I achieve this please?


<DOC id="XIN19910101.0052" type="story">
<HEADLINE>
This is the news headline
</HEADLINE>
<DATELINE>
March 09, 2004
</DATELINE>
<TEXT>
<P>
Here comes the first paragraph. There might be more
than one new line characters ('\n') in each paragraph.
</P>
<P>
And here is the second paragraph.
</P>
<P>
This is the third paragraph. Please note that the news
articles do not necessarily have the same number of
paragraphs.
</P>
</TEXT>
</DOC>
<DOC id="XIN19910101.0053" type="story">
<HEADLINE>
This is another news report
</HEADLINE>
<DATELINE>
......

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 10:32:18 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:32:18 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106b7k2s8af5c3c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <40657D14.3FBE7E82 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Tcl
>was good at interfacing to, and controlling, CAD tools.
>I was more motivated by the need to massage data, though
>they probably overlap greatly.  My experience with Tcl is
>limited to using Synopsys DC shell to do unconventional
>things, like traverse my design hierarchy (originally
>in verilog) flattening and stripping out things.  At the
>time, the documentation for their dcshell was more
>complete than for their Tcl version of the same.  But
>it's good to know that Tcl is an option to Perl and Python,
>at least for some things.
			.
			.
			.
>Along this line, I should clarify that by CAD, I don't mean
>general purpose computer aided drawing.  I mean software
>that helps designers in digital design, much of which is not
>graphical.  In fact, my area is more combinatoric
>optimization and graph theory-ish than drawing.  Sometimes,
>I forget that CAD has a much more general meaning than this.
>
>> Either Perl or Python is going to satisfy you for algorithmic
>> experiments much, MUCH more than Matlab or C++.  Make the
>> switch, *now*.
>
>I'm surprised to hear that.  Perhaps it's related to the
>confusion above (due to the initial generality of my
>description).  My thesis research deals with evolutionary
>algorithms (EAs) for programming coarse grain reconfigurable
>logic platforms.  They tend to be heavy on computation, and
>I migrated to C++ for the speedup compared to matlab.
>Matlab has been made fast for highly vectorizable
>computation, but the restrictive conditions for such speedup
>was, too restrictive.  I saw some examples of genetic
>algorithms in Perl (or perhaps it was Python), but assumed
>(maybe prematurely) that it was much slower than C++.  Other
>factors also contributed to this impression, including the
>fact that I augment the evolutionary search with local searh
>heuristics, giving rise to complicated control flow in the
>code.  So I've used C++ for the computation engine code, and
>shell/data-massaging scripts for "glue" activity.  Matlab
>I'm using because I've got alot of familiarity invested in
>its graphing capabilities (to assess data rather than
>drawing).  I'm also pretty familiar with its compact
>vectorized operations, which helps for data massaging in the
>post-processing phase.
			.
			.
			.
Several people have posted good advice already.

Thanks for the clarification; NOW I understand considerably
better your focus on graph-theoretic and related work.

When I characterize you as not primarily a software person,
I'm just trying to say that your aim is engineering or 
mathematical understanding.  You have a life beyond pro-
gramming (good thing!).

My current instinct is that you'll be happiest with Perl--
but it's a close choice, all around.  I'm most accomplished
in Tcl, and would happily use it, or Perl, or Python.  It
seems to me, though, that it's crucial that you be able
to exploit libraries that pertain to your domain, and, in
particular, optimized engines for linear algebra, graph
theory, and linear and mathematical programming.  Tcl 
lacks the weight that Perl and, to an increasing extent,
Python can boast in their libraries.

The most important thing I can do is to continue to push
you in the direction of exploring at least one of Perl 
and Python.  YES genetic algorithms and other adaptive 
methods are available.  Some C++ is more mature--but some-
times Perl, or Python, have taken the lead.  I understand
your concern with performance.  Switch to one of Perl or
Python now, and I think you'll look back on the decision
as a correct one.

That's much more to say on precisely this issue.  It
likely will take weeks to get it all out.  I'm quite
certain of my conclusion, though, even without making the
time to explain it in detail:  you'll be happier basing
your experiments in combinatoric and graph-theoretic
algorithms on Perl or Python than if you focused on C++.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar  9 17:05:15 2004
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:05:15 +0000
Subject: py2exe - omitting DLLs (not Python extensions!) from the
 distribution
References: <1xo3yt01.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
	<mailman.135.1078779896.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1xo1y8v8.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> There's a dll_excludes option, which you can use in this way:

Thanks! That did the trick.

> For now, the documentation for advanced features is supplied by the
> users and maintained in the py2exe wiki (hint, hint):

Hint taken. I've added a page describing this option.

Thanks,
Paul
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Mar  2 11:21:51 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:21:51 +0100
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20040302162151.GA5137@nl.linux.org>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> It seems that you are saying:
> 
> print "hello ", "world" +   #-> "hello world"
> 
> That looks like "magic syntax", and should rightfully return a syntax 
> error, because + already has a meaning for most all data types in 
> Python.  Changing the behavior of print when a syntax error is present, 
> is the wrong thing to do.

It can be done the other way around:
>>> class Mystr(str):
...  def __pos__(self):
...   if self.endswith(' '): return self[:-1]
...   else: return self
...
>>> m = Mystr("abc ")
>>> print +m, "bla"
abc bla

...although I prefer sys.stdout.write.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 02/03 14:55 UTC:
	6.0??C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 5.8 m/s WNW (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From theller at python.net  Thu Mar  4 14:10:46 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:10:46 +0100
Subject: py2exe odbc:cannot import dbi module
References: <f00811ba.0403020804.27a9b1dc@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1078254551.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<f00811ba.0403040337.31c2a2b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <znawfmx5.fsf@python.net>

mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis) writes:

> Great, it works, thanks Thomas!
>
> But why did you say that odbc32.dll shouldn't be distributed? Because
> our distribution should only contain python specific files?
> If that's the reason, then I should probably take out MFC42.dll too,
> right? Well, I'll just take them out and test... I guess I should
> really familiarize myself with distutils, so I understand more about
> all this!

This has nothing to do with distutils.

There are legal reasons (but IANAL), you must check for each file if you
are allowed to redistribute it.

Second, there are technical reasons.  I'm not sure if you distribute
odbc32.dll whether the resulting executable would work on a machine
where no odbc is installed or not, but I guess there are more files
needed.  For Windows, you probably need to download something called
'Microsoft data access components', follow their installation
guidelines, and make sure that you read their license (or not ;-)

py2exe can only make an educated guess whether the files it collects are
'system files' which must not be redistributed or not, which fails in
this case for odbc32.dll.

Thomas




From whicks at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 28 17:36:20 2004
From: whicks at hotmail.com (william hicks)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:36:20 GMT
Subject: $$$$   HONEST MONEY MAKING    $$$$
Message-ID: <ErI9c.4050$ITz1.396@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>


Follow the directions below and in two weeks you'll have up to $20000.00 in your
PayPal account. There is a very high rate of participation in the program
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it a try anyway! It REALLY WORKS! Why do you think so many people are promoting
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even $1.00 in return, your total loss will be the $5.00! If you are not yet a
paypal member, there is no risk at all!!! If the Program is only moderately
successful for you, your PayPal account will have several hundred dollars
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Program, you could have up to $20,000.00 in your PayPal account within two weeks!

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Now log into your PayPal account, and send the PayPal account of the person
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Use Netscape or Internet Explorer and try searching for various new groups
(on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.) Visit message boards
and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter
and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the subject, this will be the
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will be your turn to receive the cash. $5.00 will be sent
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donation program and send it to 50 prospects. Imagine if you
sent it to 100 or even more. Most people spend more than $5 on the
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NOT ADD YOUR EMAIL IMMEDIATELY TO THE #1 POSITION, AND MAKE SURE TO
SEND YOUR 5 DOLLARS TO THE PERSON AT #1. IF EVERYONE WHO TRIED THIS
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Post a follow-up to this message






From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 17:32:13 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:32:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Statistical Techniques
Message-ID: <20040316223213.7981.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,
I was just wondering if python has any support modules
for statistical techniques as Bayesian, Markovian
Style Models etc.

Any hints?
Thanks
Dont

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From gandreas at no.reply  Thu Mar 25 17:54:16 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:54:16 -0600
Subject: Variable scope in classes
References: <P6OdnbAHb-yjyv7dRVn-uA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <gandreas-54AA99.16541625032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <P6OdnbAHb-yjyv7dRVn-uA at comcast.com>,
 "Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:

> I'm confused about variable scope in a class
> that is derived from a base class framework.
> 
> Can someone enlighten me on why bar.__init__
> method can't see self.__something variable
> in the foo.__init__?
> 

Because __something is "private" to bar, and thus not visible anywhere 
else (unless you manually tweak on the "_foo", which is tricky and 
really not very nice).

> Example:
> 
> 
> class foo:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print self.__something
> 
> 
> class bar(foo):
>     __something="This is a test"
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         foo.__init__(self)
> 
> 
> x=bar()

If you get rid of the private underscore:

class foo:
    def __init__(self):
        print self.something


class bar(foo):
    something="This is a test"

    def __init__(self):
        foo.__init__(self)


x = bar()

it works fine.


From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Wed Mar 31 12:32:45 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:32:45 -0800
Subject: wxPython docs [was Re: Python Documentation Blows!]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.163.1080724525.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<mailman.163.1080724525.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2hDac.716$JX6.553@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Michael wrote:
> 
>> Is it time for the python community to commit a bit
>> more to the wxwidgets/wxpython environment?
>> I feel so
>>  
>>
> I lot of Python people don't like wxPython. I'm really not sure why as 
> it always works for me. 

Probably for the same reason I don't like tkinter.  It just doesn't fit 
my brain and wxWidgets does.  (This is the primary reason wxPython 
exists, because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't wrap my head 
around tkinter enough to write an app that I wanted to write.)  In most 
cases that I've seen if tkinter does fit well in somebody's brain then 
wxPython doesn't.  It's usually as simple as that.

Incidentally, I still havn't written that app!  I've been too busy and 
having too much fun with wxPython itself.


> I think wxPython is great but really needs more 
> of an experienced and vocal community and as I said some Python centric 
> documentation.
> 

It's coming.  In addition to the book and all that is involved in 
migrating to 2.5, (a lot of reachitecting, rewriting, etc. [1]), I'm 
working on Python-specific reference docs as well, starting with 
detailed docstrings.  I've patched SWIG to be able to automatically add 
a docstring that documents the parameters a function takes (eventhough 
it still uses (*args, **kwargs)) and the return type.  Then additional 
text can optionally be added to that and/or the auto-generated portion 
can be overriden for the cases that a typemap is involved and so custom 
details are needed.  This text will be usable from any tool that can can 
deal with docstrings, for example:

http://cvs.wxwidgets.org/viewcvs.cgi/wxWidgets/wxPython/docs/screenshots/PyShell.png?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

Additionally, all the metadata about the API (classes, methods, 
functions, parameters, types, docstrings, etc.) are being written to an 
XML file that will be included with the wxPython docs, and which should 
be able to be used by some tools (still to be written) to transform this 
into a browsable set of reference docs.


http://cvs.wxwidgets.org/viewcvs.cgi/wxWidgets/wxPython/docs/xml/wxPython-metadata.xml


[1] for info on some of the big changes in 2.5 see

http://cvs.wxwidgets.org/viewcvs.cgi/wxWidgets/wxPython/docs/MigrationGuide.txt

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From klapotec at chello.at  Fri Mar 12 01:29:18 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:29:18 GMT
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
References: <mailman.295.1079066256.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j1l250933md99to3qqb0o9lh4tad6r48sh@4ax.com>

John Benson wrote, deliberately and in full possession of his mental
faculties:

>Everybody talks about how much better Python is than Lisp, C++, Java or
>whatever else because it's so much cleaner, looks like pseudocode only it's
>executable and all the cool guys are using it because of this and other
>advantages.
>
>I propose that we change the language of this board to Spanish, as long as
>we're so vocally committed to using best-of-breed languages. Derived from
>the Iberian dialect of vulgar Latin, Spanish has many important advantages
>over English:
>
>1) It's executable phonetic code: how it's written is how you pronounce it.
>English suffers from a bewildering array of rules and counterexamples in
>matters of pronunciation.

Then how about Italian, or maybe something exotic like some
Austronesian language - Hawai'ian or Maori.
Or how 'bout Chinese: How it's written doesn't influence pronunciation
one bit, so written Chinese can be understood by speakers of
phonetically quite different versions of Chinese, and to a limited
extent by Japanese and Korean speakers.

>
>2) It's a widely supported standard. A Spanish speaker from Tierra del Fuego
>can understand somebody from Madrid with little difficulty. Many dialects of
>English, however, are often incomprehensible to other English speakers, like
>Cockney, 'Strine and HBHE (High-Baudrate Hindustani English).

Austronesian languages are also a widley supported standard, the
distance from Hawai'i to New Zealand being more than 5000 km (I forget
how much exactly), and speakers of Hawai'ian can understand speakers
of Maori with not that much difficulty.
And that Chinese is the widely supported standard to soon leave other
widely supported standards in the dust is a matter of course.

>
>3) Spanish has less monosyllabic words than English. Programmers paid by the
>hour should be intrigued by this opportunity to augment their income. Also,
>the same amount of actual progress will take longer to report, conveying the
>impression that more has actually been accomplished.

(Most) Austronesian languages' phonetic inventory is even more limited
than that of Spanish, so even less monosyllabic words tend to occur.
So your arguments, even more so.
Chinese on the other hand tends to have more monosyllabic words
(though in actuality today most words are bisyllabic), but
distinguishes them through tones. So carefully formulated progress
reports may sound like an uplifting song, conveying the impression
that all is going well, while in fact little has been accomplished.
Even easier if you do this in Cantonese.


>
>4) It hasn't been thrown together from the motley of influences that make
>English such a potpourri (from the French for "rotten stew"). Oops! Like I
>said, English is too much a patchwork of other languages to qualify as a
>natural venue for Pythonic discourse.

Ha, Spanish is a potpourri of vulgar Latin, Basque and whatever
proto-Iberian influences there were and, to a high degree: Arabic!
If you really want a 'pure' language, I think today your best bet
might be Icelandic, which is however not a widely supported
standard...

>
>& cetera.
>
>Thinly-veiled threat: If this board doesn't immediately cut over to Spanish
>because it is obviously superior to English, I shall be forced to consider
>its badmouthing of other computer languages as just so much small-minded
>special pleading.
>
>P.S. The fact that I have an M.A. in Spanish has nothing to do with the fact
>that Spanish is the best language for this board. I have recommended it
>solely on its obvious and indisputable merits. In the spirit of magnanimity,
>however, I will state in advance that anyone who disagrees with me is more
>to be pitied than censured.
>

;-)



--
Christopher


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 15 18:03:31 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:03:31 -0600
Subject: xreadlines() being used with file.tell() and  file.seek()
References: <c34vpp$7s3$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <upGdnVqrFOrfq8vdRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Pernell,

If I'm understanding your code correctly you need
to look closely at the .seek method.  The argument
to this is bytes (not lines).  Unless you have fixed
length lines, there is no "quick" way to go "seek" to
an arbitrary line in a file.

seek() and xreadlines do seem to work together:

from xreadlines import xreadlines

f=open(r"c:\readme.txt)
f.seek(1000)   # Move down 1000 bytes
for line in xreadlines(f):
    print l

This prints all the lines to the end of the file
beginning 1000 characters from the beginning of
the file.

Hope information helps.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Pernell Williams" <pernell.h.williams.nospam at intel.com> wrote in message
news:c34vpp$7s3$1 at news01.intel.com...
>
> Hi all:
>
>
>
> I am new to Python, and this is my first post (and it won't be my last!),
so
> HELLO EVERYONE!! I am attempting to use "xreadlines", an outer loop and an
> inner loop in conjunction with "file.tell() and file.seek() in order to
> navigate through a file in order to print specific lines (for example,
every
> 5th line). Allow me to illustrate by example:
>
>
>
> I have a file like this:
>
>
>
> 1:one
>
> 2:two
>
> 3:three
>
> 4:four
>
> 5:five
>
> 6:six
>
> 7:seven
>
> 8:eight
>
> 9:nine
>
> 10:ten
>
> 11:eleven
>
>
>
> And I would like to use an outer and inner loop with the xreadlines()
> command in order to provide this output:
>
>
>
> the line I would like to print is 1
>
> the line I would like to print is 6
>
> the line I would like to print is 11
>
>
>
> Now, I have code using "readline() " in both the inner and outer loop.
This
> code gives me the output that I am looking for:
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
>
>
> #opening the file for reading
>
> str = 'myFile'
>
> file = open(str, 'r')
>
>
>
> #outer loop using file.readline
>
>
>
> while 1:
    line = file.readline()
>   if line == '':
>     break
>   data = line.rstrip().split(':')
>   print "the line I would like to print is", data [0]
>   #inner loop is reading contents of the file,
>   #and aftr 5 iterations,
>   # going back to  outer loop
>
>   count = 0
>
>   while 1:
>
>
>
>     position = file.tell()
>
>     count = count +1
>
>     data = file.readline().strip().split(":")
>
>     if count == 5:
>
>       file.seek(position)
>
>       break
>
>
>
>   # end of inner while loop
>
> #end of outer while loop
>
>
>
> file.close()
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> However, I have code using xreadlines() that does NOT work:
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
>
>
> # This section of code opens the file for reading
>
> str = 'myFile'
>
> file = open(str, 'r')
>
> position = 0
>
>
>
> # this outer loop uses xreadlines to read in all of the lines of the file
>
>
>
> for line in file.xreadlines():
>
>   data = line.rstrip().split(':')
>
>   print "The line I would like to print is", data[0]
>
>   theFileSeek = file.seek(position)
>
>
>
>   #this iner loop reads through the file and loops through
>
>   #until count ==5. It then saves the position of the file
>
>   #when count ==5, and passes that info to the inner loop
>
>
>
>   count = 0
>
>   while 1:
>
>     position = file.tell()
>
>     line = file.readline()
>
> data = line.rstrip().split(':')
>
>     count = count + 1
>
>
>
>     if count == 5:
>
>       file.seek(position)
>
>       break
>
>   #end while inner loop
>
> #end while outer loop
>
>
>
> file.close()
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> The code that does not work gives me this output:
>
>
>
> The line I would like to print is 1
>
> The line I would like to print is 2
>
> The line I would like to print is 3
>
> The line I would like to print is 4
>
> The line I would like to print is 5
>
> The line I would like to print is 6
>
> The line I would like to print is 7
>
> The line I would like to print is 8
>
> The line I would like to print is 9
>
> The line I would like to print is 10
>
> The line I would like to print is 11
>
>
>
> Please help!! How do I use the xreadlines() command (for the outer and
inner
> loop) to accomplish this? Why doesn't xreadlines() and file.seek() work
> together? Or do they? I need to use xreadlines() instead of readline()
> because the files I will be processing are huge, and xreadlines()
processes
> faster than readline().  Thanks, and sorry for the long post!
>
>
> -- 
> Remove ".nospam" from e-mail address to reply
>
>




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 10 10:03:31 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 16:03:31 +0100
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <tyfu10w68xo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> schreef:
> 
> > - Note that item is bound to objects of completely different types
> >   (integer, string, list, hash-table and array, in this case) at
> >   different times. (This _does_ mean that it's dynamically typed.)
> 
> Yes, but 2 of the "method versions" use statically typed parameters.

What gives you that idea? There are no statically typed parameters in
anything I have shown you (except the C++).

  (defmethod foo ((x integer))
    (format t "~&~s is an integer." x)
    (setq x "this is a string")
    (format t "~&Oh look, x was an integer, and now it's a string: ~s." x))
  
  (foo 2)

output:

  2 is an integer.
  Oh look, x was an integer, and now it's a string: "this is a string".

If x were a statically typed parameter, then it would not be possible
for it to "be" an integer at one moment, and a string a moment later.

I think you really should tell me what _your_ definition of static
typing is, otherwise we're going to go around in circles for a very
long time.

> So it seems this is a language that gives you the choice between dynamic 
> and static typing.

As it happens, this language does give you the option of giving type
declarations, which serve as optimization hints to the compiler (which
is not the same as static typing) ... but what I have shown you
(method dispatch) has nothing to do with type declarations.

> Without this (optional) static typing in the language, there is no way to 
> have these method versions for different parameter types. 

Oh really?  Here's a counterexample in Python:

class generic_function:

    def __init__(self):
        self.methods = {}

    def add_method(self, method, *types):
        self.methods[types] = method

    def __call__(self,*args):
        types = tuple(map(type,args))
        return self.methods[types](*args)

foo = generic_function()

def _foo(x):
    print '%s is a string' % x
foo.add_method(_foo, str)

def _foo(x):
    print '%s is an integer' % x
foo.add_method(_foo, int)

foo(2)        # =>  2 is an integer
foo('hello')  # =>  hello is a string

[It could do with a bit of syntactic sugar to make it look more like
normal method definitions, but that's all it takes to implement. Now,
in our mystery language we could add the syntactic sugar ourselves,
trivially; in Python we probably need to ask the language implementors
very nicely (i.e. wire a PEP, defend it, provide a reference
implementation (this means hacking the Python interpreter
itself)). None of this, however, means that it can't be done in a
language without static typing.]

> I suppose that's what John Roth was thinking about when he said "but
> there's no way it's going to happen in a language that doesn't have
> static typing".

I am afraid that John Roth was just plain wrong. 

(Caveat, if you try to twist the meaning of those words until you get
to some sufficiently meaningless interpretation, then you might,
eventually, find some way of reading them that makes him right.)


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Fri Mar 19 21:30:42 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:30:42 GMT
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Grumfish wrote:
> I'm trying to use the md5 module but it gives me a different result from 
> what other programs give. This is the code I have and the result from 
> hexdigest() never matches what I expect. Its probably something stupid 
> but its driving me crazy.
> 
> f = file (filename, "r")
> m = md5.new()
> data = f.read (CHUNK_SIZE)
> while data != "":
>        m.update (data)
>        data = f.read (CHUNK_SIZE)


I'll wager this is happening on Windows.  When reading data in text
mode on Windows, Python converts "\r\n" sequence to "\n".  You need to
open the file in binary mode.  Try changing the first line to:

    f = file(filename,"rb")




-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Thu Mar  4 14:24:40 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 11:24:40 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403041124.11f149f5@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote...

> The very existence of a "multitude" of Python web environments is a
> serious shortcoming of Python as a PHP replacement.  PHP comes with
> one web environment, not a multitude, so you have just one manual to
> read, not a multitude; one codebase to worry about keeping up with the
> latest releases for, not a multitude, and so forth.

PHP is largely a very flexible templating system with support for
complex expressions and a huge catalogue of predefined procedures
available in a flat namespace. The manual exists for the above
functionality, and makes the assumption that you invent your 'web
environment' ad hoc.

Indeed the situation with the multitude of Python web CMSes and
frameworks could improve, but I don't think you face half the
difficulty in picking a specific Python one over a specific PHP one.

Again, PHP CMSes tend to advertise their flashy featuresets and latest
'mods', whereas Python CMSes tend to list more practical goals.  Take
an example, the Google descriptions for Plone and PostNuke:

   Description: The Postnuke Content Management System offers
   full CSS support and HTML 4.01 transitional compliance...

   Description: Content Management Framework (CMF) that runs on
   top of Zope. Can be used as an intranet server, a...


For someone vaguely familiar with Python, and aware of Zope's
excellent reputation, which is the more obvious and affirming choice
of these two?


> That's ok, Python has no default support at all, intuitive or
> otherwise, for ANY db operations, common or not.

> > We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
> > for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
> > obvious choice, and officially endorsed?
> 
> That's precisely the situation Python is in now!

"Obvious", being my favourite word for the month, could maybe have
been put to good use previously. A quick search of Python.org will
bring you up the DB-API docs, which is precisely what happened the
first time I went searching for information about Python and
databases.

The same cannot be said for PHP, where you'll either get a tutorial
for how to use the raw MySQL/Psql/Oracle API functions exported by the
PHP engine, or you'll get faced with a choice between a plethora of DB
'middlewares'.


> The site that I worked on spent TWO MILLION U.S. DOLLARS on its web
> server hardware.

Was this sometime between 1999-2000? ;)


David.


From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Wed Mar 31 14:38:04 2004
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:38:04 -0500
Subject: Followup: big projects, games, reload
In-Reply-To: <c4f6cn$to9$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c4f6cn$to9$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1080761883.22892.45.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 14:32, Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Redefining methods:
> 
> One of the truly powerful features of Panda3D is that you can stop a
> simulation, redefine a method, and start from that point again. This is
> done using Python features. Panda3D recursively digs through namespaces to
> find the definition of the class or methods and then swaps them for the
> new, thus rebinding the new version. There is also special code written to
> dig out all the stored function pointers, such as events and tasks, and
> replace those as well."
> 
> I think this nicely illustrates what I saw as the conclusion of the reload
> thread: if one wants a reload function that does exactly what one wants in
> a particular application, one should write it oneself, and with effect, one
> can do so.

I didn't follow the reload thread, but it sounds like the Panda3D
implementation provides what people want from reload most of the time. 
I don't know how much their implementation is specialized to their
system, but it might be nice to seem similar functionality available for
other systems (in the library or the cookbook or something).

Jeremy





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar 26 12:43:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:43:22 -0600
Subject: mod_python exception catching,
	other repetitious per-page actions
In-Reply-To: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
References: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <20040326174322.GO16608@unpythonic.net>

You could use a wrapper for each function, which at least keeps you
from needing the which_page argument..

    def page_wrapper(callable):
        def _wrapper(apache_request, *args):
            try:
                _connect_to_database()
                _do_user_specific_stuff(apache_request)
                return callable(*args)
            except Exception, err:
                return _TypesetErrorPage(err)
        return _wrapper

    def mainpage(apache_request, some_cgi_arg):
        # specific code ehre
    mainpage = page_wrapper(mainpage)
page_wrapper() could do extra magic with exec if you want it to have the
same signature as callable.. something like
    def page_wrapper(callable):
        d = {}
        name = callable.__name__
        argspec = getargspecstr(callable) # based on inspect.getargspec()
        callspec = ... # argspec with default values removed
        exec """def %s(%s): ... return callable(%s) ...""" \
            % (name, argspec, callspec) in d
        return d[name]
... barf, eh?

Jeff
PS one of the currently discussed PEPs may let you write
    def mainpage(apache_request, some_cgi_arg)[page_wrapper]: ...
instead of writing mainpage = page_wrapper(mainpage) after the function
body.



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 19 03:23:20 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 09:23:20 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
	<c3avec$j1d$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <tyfish18cuf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:

> I was unclear.  By treating a piece of data as the wrong type I meant
> interpreting the actual bits as they weren't intended.

I understood that that is what you meant. I was merely pointing out
that the text you quoted could equally well be interpreted using your
definition, or my definition.

> But you're right--since this is really a discussion about
> terminology, it's really not all that interesting :)

Indeed :-)


From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Mon Mar 29 09:00:18 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:00:18 +0200
Subject: import a module from an archive ?
Message-ID: <40682BF2.80407@zslide.com>

hi all,

i'd like to know if it's possible to import a module from an archive 
(zip, rar, tar, jar, ...)
I've tried using different formats but it still doesn't work .....

i make:
    >>>sys.path.append('d:/myModules.zip')
    >>>import aModuleFromTheArchive

is there a way to do that ?
the problem is that i've embed a python interpreter in our java app and 
our scripts need some standard modules from python and jython but the 2 
'Lib' directories of python and jython are a bit heavy : 8Mb ....

thx,
vince



From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 09:57:19 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 06:57:19 -0800
Subject: Escape problem
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am developing a web application.
I have a string 'foo"bar"' say in variable s.
When I print s on the python shell it prints correctly 'foo"bar"'
whereas when I try to display s on the form it just prints 'foo'. What
should I do to print complete string 'foo"bar"' on the form


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 18:22:44 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:22:44 -0500
Subject: Import a module from parent package
In-Reply-To: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>
References: <1a884f4a.0403191219.3c6ff12d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UcWdnUQuiJFZHcbdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Peter L. Buschman wrote:

> That way, no matter where the entire "module" package gets installed, the
> regression tests will always be able to find and import their parent modules
> whose functionality they need to test.
> 
> Essentially, this is like referencing ../../submodule from the command-line.

See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0328.html for what would appear to be 
some related material.

-Peter


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Wed Mar 10 13:06:14 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:06:14 +0100
Subject: Nice way of getting items from two lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.239.1078941256.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.239.1078941256.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2nld9$f28$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk a ?crit :
>>From: C GIllespie [mailto:csgcsg39 at hotmail.com]
>>
>>I have two equal size lists - list1, list2. Basically, each 
>>item in list 1
>>has a partner in list2. I was wanting to do something like
>>So if:
>>list1=['x','y','z']
>>list2=[1,2,3]
>>
>>then if I did this 'for loop'
>>for name, value in list1,list2:
>>    print name, value
>>
>>I would get
>>x,1
>>y,2
>>z,3
> 
> 
> for name, value in zip(list1, list2):
>     print name, value

or with itertools.izip
see http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/itertools-functions.html

Yermat



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 06:52:14 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 12:52:14 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Imagine (for the sake of brevity of argument --- I wouldn't dream of
> suggesting such a "line-noise" syntax for Python) that you could use
> "x := 3" to mean "create a new local binding for x", while "x = 3"
> would mean "find the innermost x and rebind it", with function
> parameters, loop variables, list comprehension variables all behaving
> as if they were using ":=". Now you'll find that you gain a lot of
> flexibility to do what is appropriate with scopes of variables used in
> loops etc., and you have an opportunity to fix the immutability of
> closures ...
> 
> (Of course there are "issues" ... what happens, for
> example when you say
> 
>     def foo(a):
>         a := 3
>         a := 4
> 
> ... does that make three nested scopes for a?, is it an error?)

Hmm, this is starting to intrigue me.

What are the situations that need disambiguating?

What situations do (or might) create inner scopes?

"def" and "class" are currently the two ways of creating an inner
scope (have I overlooked any others?) ... and we are considering the
possibility of "for" doing the same (in two different flavours: loops
and comprehensions).

Current rules can be summarized as:

  In a scope creating block (def, class), assignment introduces a
  local binding, unless the name is declared global.

It looks like what's missing (because originally there were no other
scopes between local and global) is some way of declaring a name to
refer to an enclosing scope which may or may not be the global scope.

For example:

  >>> def make():
  ...     x = 0
  ...     def show(): print x
  ...     def inc(n): x = x+n
  ...     return show,inc
  ... 
  >>> show,inc = make()
  >>> show()
  0
  >>> inc(3)
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    File "<stdin>", line 4, in inc
  UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x' referenced before assignment

The problem is that the "x =" inside "def inc():" tells the compiler
to treat "x" as local to the scope of "inc", and then the reference to
"x" or the RHS of the same line refers to an unbound variable ("x" in
the _local_ scope). "global" is there for exactly this sort of
situation, except that it originates from a time when there were no
nested scopes, so it offers no help if you want to refer to some scope
other than the global or local.

Imagine we have a "nested" keyword which is similar to "global", only
it ensures that the name is found in the nearest enclosing scope. Now
the above problem could be resolved by defining "inc" as follows.

    def make():
        x = 0
        ...
        def inc(n):
            nested x
            x = x+n
        ...

Works just like global would have done, only it is aware of the
other socpes between local and global.

> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> writes:
> 
> > It wouldn't do to make the whole (non-comprehension)
> > for-loop a new scope, because that would make any
> > variables assigned within the loop body local as well.

Not if you have a "nested" keyword at your disposal.

What situations would this not cover ?


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Sun Mar 14 13:40:22 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:40:22 -0700
Subject: Python/Tkinter - problem with "wm_attributes"
References: <40544B9D.1000706@netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <4054A61C.87E43CDA@pobox.com>

george wrote:
> #################################
> # topmost.pyw
> from Tkinter import *
> root = Tk()
> root.wm_attributes("-topmost", 1)
> root.mainloop()
> #################################

This seems to work better if you do:

root.wait_visibility(root)

before the wm_attributes call.  I have no idea why the window never
appears without it.
	Jason Harper


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 14:34:35 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:34:35 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <mailman.228.1079953486.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xn069t5pr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<eppstein-7692B5.08430822032004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <g6fu50lc318aqi03au98ep751arc08f595@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:43:08 -0800, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <7xn069t5pr.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Eyal Lotem <gnupeaker at yahoo.com> writes:

>> > You are not supposed to be looking for it, IMHO.
>> > Generators follow the Sequence protocol and are to be
>> > treated as sequences.  Thus, you should simply make it
<snip>
>> But that's bogus.  Python is dynamically typed which means that a
>> normal function can return whatever it wants, sequence or
>> non-sequence.  A generator function can't return anything, it can only
>> yield.
>
>I agree with Eyal.  A generator is a callable that, when called, returns 
>an iterator of the items it generates.  The fact that it's defined using 
>yield syntax instead of using return syntax is irrelevant to the caller.

I agree, but I'd still prefer it if the difference between a generator
and a function was explicit in the definition.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Sun Mar 28 12:28:47 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 09:28:47 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
>> Is all this complexity unecessary?

Yup. Scary to realise a good chunk of your hard-won expert knowledge
is essentially worthless make-work, eh? Ah well... c'est la vie. <g>


Joe Mason replied:

>Complexity's ok if it's in the right place

Hmmm... sort of true. However:

1. Complexity is _never_ desireable. (Unless you're deliberately
obfuscating code, which is the exception that proves the rule.)

2. Essential complexity is something you have to accept; in any large
system it's almost inevitable. Hiding this from casual view may a
reasonable compromise in preventing the average user's head from
exploding.

3. Gratuitous complexity should be eliminated at every opportunity,
however. Hiding it is just a kludge and a copout.

4. Often what's seen as essential complexity is actually gratuitous
complexity that nobody's noticed. (Or have noticed, but prefer to keep
schtum about it for whatever reasons of their own.)



> Ed Suominen just posted a situation where classes and instances need to
> be treated separately.
[...]
> So here's one point where the simplification of prototypes actually ends
> up making the user code more complicated than the full Python version.

Not at all. All it shows is that a class-based programming style
doesn't work well in a classless language. Here's a more sensible
solution:

# Library pseudocode

_fooRegistry = []

obj _Foo: # prototype object
    # Foo's code goes here

def Foo(): # constructor function
    newFoo = _Foo.copy()
    _fooRegistry.append(newFoo)
    return newFoo


Dirt simple with not an ounce of class metaprogramming in sight.

To a class-based programmer, prototype-based OO must feel rather like
running down the High Street with no pants on; a wonderfully
liberating experience once you get over the initial embarrassment.
Python's layering of a stiff, complicated, class-oriented programming
model atop such a highly dynamic implementation seems a bit perverse,
as well as a badly missed opportunity. (Needless to say, I'll be
watching Prothon's development with some considerable interest.:)


> But someone else said that prototype-based languages "tend to grow 
> features that mimic class-based ones", or soemthing like that.

One suspects, however, that such languages were getting along just
fine by themselves till the class-based programmers arrived. As with
missionaries, any approaching Java programmers should be shot on sight
or you'll be infested by crappy typesystems and worshipping bloody
generics before you know it. :p

has


From timr at probo.com  Thu Mar 11 01:19:41 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:19:41 -0800
Subject: wine as a platform independent GUI toolkit
References: <a4f8b025.0403091240.50bf6c23@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nv00505j3nbl5a75rtsuajglkts9efq2cc@4ax.com>

brian at chrissyandbrian.com (Brian) wrote:
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/faq/gui.html lists the Python
>interfaces/wrappers/bindings to various widget sets (Tcl/Tk,
>wxWindows, Qt, GTk+, FLTK, FOX, and OpenGL).  I'm surprised that
>nothing exists for wine.  The only solution I can think of is to
>install the win32 python and Pythonwin, but this seems akward to me. 
>Is there any way for me to run a python script natively on linux that
>drives a win32 gui (running with wine).  In other words, is there any
>way to hook into the Wine widget toolkit?

Wine doesn't have a widget toolkit.  Wine just provides enough hooks so
that Win32 programs (and user32.dll) can draw their own widgets.

Theoretically, if you copied a Win32 Python installation to Linux, you
might be able to win32gui to draw things via Wine, or even the Win32 port
of wxWidgets, but that would be silly.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 12 07:05:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:05:56 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<c718a6cf.0403112149.1b3d0e78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10539v6or0qij8d@news.supernews.com>

"Y2KYZFR1" <jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c718a6cf.0403112149.1b3d0e78 at posting.google.com...
> Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in
message news:<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>...
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500, John Roth wrote:
> > > Someday people will get over their attachment with being able to write
> > > programs with any old text editor that happens to be lying around, and
> > > being able to print their programs without needing a special
> > > formatting program, but that day isn't today, and I doubt if it's
> > > tomorrow.
> >
> > I doubt it's ever, because such a day would have to be preceded by the
> > day when programs no longer need to be inspected, maintained or
> > transferred between systems not specifically set up as developer
> > workstations.
>
> funny thing is VB has survived this long just because you HAVE to have
> the IDE to edit the code. That is one of the biggest selling points of
> VB.

> It should not be an issue, just make all the IDE's cross platform.
>
> All the worth while Java IDE's are cross platform. Intellij IDEA and
> Together.
> Maybe Eclipse but it is pretty buggy compared to the commerical
> offerings.

Java IDEs are cross platform because they're in Java, which is
cross-platform. IDLE is cross-platform because it's written in
Python, which is cross-platform.

> That is what Python is missing is an quality IDE that is cross
> platform. All the ones out now suck when compared to something like
> IDEA or Together.

Well, yes. I tried using IDLE, and the little things that didn't work
the way I expected (or work at all) made me go back to PythonWin.
PythonWin is hardly ideal either: it's just based on a very good
editor. You can't use the Bicycle Repair Man refactoring plugin,
and the run facility sucks. It's just better than IDLE.

There are supposed to be Python plugins for Eclipse, but every time
I look for them I find stuff that is so far from ready for prime time that
they're embarassing.

> anyone that thinks about following up this post with anything about vi
> or emacs can just stop right now and go back to their hole.




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Mar  3 10:46:40 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:46:40 -0800
Subject: Replace text with value form dictionary (regexp)
In-Reply-To: <c24qar$j6k$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c24ouh$i92$1@newshispeed.ch> <c24qar$j6k$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <40460670$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
>I want to implement a small templating system where values in angle
>brackets ...

If you can drop the angle brackets (which in this example even seem to
be braces) and switch to a single delimiter (such as '"' or '|'), you
could use some old magic that now works in 2.3 for normal vectors:
stride expressions.

> I have this solution now:
>     ... d = {}
>     d["x"] = 10
>     d["y"] = "20"
> 
     def repl(template, replace):
         parts = template.split('"')
         if len(parts) & 1 == 0:   # Expect odd rails if even posts
              raise ValueError('Need an even number of quotes, not %d.'
                                % template.count('"')) 

         parts[1::2] = [str(replace[word] for word in parts[1::2]]
         return ''.join(parts)

     repl('"x"+"y" is x+y.', d)

A string like 'This is x: "x' will accidentally replace the final x,
unless you leave the exception test in the code.  If you add an
entry to your dictionary like: d[''] = '"', you can use doubled
quotes to indicate single quotes in the output.

     d[''] = '"'
     repl('"x"+"y" is ""x+y"".', d)

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From kmt at MailCentro.zzn.com  Tue Mar  9 17:01:51 2004
From: kmt at MailCentro.zzn.com (Keel Thaan)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:01:51 GMT
Subject: calling python in emacs from a shell buffer doesn't make
	input/output.
In-Reply-To: <404dff64$0$579$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
References: <c2ggrr$1u83$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
	<404dff64$0$579$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <j9r3c.47362$Ak2.14808432@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

leo wrote:

> however when i call python interactivly in this shell buffer it doesn't
> accept any input and therefore doesn't do any output at all -- until i kill
> the shell with C-c C-d: then python processes all the input characters i
> have
> typed, writes its output to the buffer and quits. after that the shell quits
> obviously as well.

Try "python -i" (without the quotes, obviously); the -i switch should 
force the Python interpreter into interactive mode even if it doesn't 
think it's connected to a terminal.



From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 08:30:11 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 05:30:11 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>

"Andrew Koenig" <ark at acm.org> wrote 
> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote

> > Maybe one could redefine "is" on immutables as follows: for strings
> > and numbers it acts as "==", for tuples it acts as componentwise "is".
> > That would be a more useful operator IMHO.
> 
> Can you give a realistic example of code that would benefit from such a
> change?

Well, componentwise "is" on tupels is clearly useful, and not
available with a single operator right now. On the other hand, I don't
think there can be any realistic example where the current version of
"is" on immutables would be useful. Why would anybody ever want to
know whether two strings or tupels are internally stored at the same
location, other than to deduce details of the Python implementation?
In addition, I claim that my redefinition avoids hard to find bugs:
it's entirely possible that some people use "is" on strings, in the
mistaken belief (based on some small examples) that it is faster and
that Python always stores equal strings at the same location [I was
about to do just that, and that's why I started this whole thread].
Their programs may run correctly on some machines and not on others.
Thirdly, my redefinition would reduce the number of unspecified
implementation dependencies of the language. Note that "is" for
mutable objects is an important operator with well-defined semantics
and is not implementation dependent at all, only its behavior for
immutable objects is.

Lastly, using my redefinition of "is", we have the following nice
property for all objects a and b (mutable or immutable):

 a is b  iff  in any code block not containing "id()" or "is", any 
              (or all) occurrances of a can be replaced by b, with
              identical results

In the current implementation, the above equivalence only holds if we
remove "not containing id() or is", and then the statement becomes a
mere tautology without nutritious value.

Axel


From goodger at python.org  Fri Mar 12 14:52:29 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:52:29 -0500
Subject: Optparse: Detecting if option or option-arg is specified or not
In-Reply-To: <b19beb92.0403121047.3977802f@posting.google.com>
References: <b19beb92.0403111410.4202c2b3@posting.google.com>	<c2qqb1$87d$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<b19beb92.0403121047.3977802f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405214FD.6070207@python.org>

Sam Smith wrote:
 > Some of my commandlines share the same option-arg, but the default
 > value to be associated with each of them is different.  In one of
 > the commandlines I was trying to detect if the user has specified
 > the option or not and if not assign a different value to the option.

Perhaps you should wait to specify your options (i.e., populate your
Parser object) until you know which command you're dealing with.

 > Irrespective of the usage scenario, I believe that it is important
 > to give the module user the ability to find out whether an option
 > has been specified or not by the user.

I don't.  I have yet to see a compelling example where such
introspection is really necessary.

But if you really do, then put it in post-processing.  Set the default
value to something that cannot be specified on the command line, test
for that value, and proceed accordingly.

I'm pretty sure this topic has been hashed out thoroughly on the
optik-users mailing list
(http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6064).  I
suggest some research there and if you're still convinced, post there.
I doubt if Greg Ward (the author of Optik/optparse) will see your
posts here.

-- David Goodger




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 19:23:17 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:23:17 -0600
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <40620013.30702@neggie.net>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
	<16481.60337.370411.907718@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<4061ED09.1080506@neggie.net>
	<16481.62214.163592.282439@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<40620013.30702@neggie.net>
Message-ID: <16482.9845.908031.686978@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    John> I'm not interested in cats or pajamas, just the os library telling
    John> me what the null filename is for the OS I'm running on, just as it
    John> tells me what the path separator, etc. is.

That's fine.  Please submit a bug report.  A patch which takes into account
minor platforms (WinCE, RISCOS) would be even more helpful.

Skip



From mark.asbach at post.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Mar  1 03:03:46 2004
From: mark.asbach at post.rwth-aachen.de (Mark Asbach)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:03:46 +0100
Subject: autoconf macros and distutils
Message-ID: <1g9ymym.1ha4kx81nmd3wsN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi Python-Pros,

I'm working on a project using an embedded and extended python
interpreter. We use autoconf/automake/libtool and have our own autoconf
macros for detecting a python installation. Everythings works fine under
traditional UNIX, but since we're trying to port to other platforms like
Mac OS or Windows, we are in trouble.

My question is: how can I find out, which compiler and linker options
are necessary to build a custom python interpreter? 

On Mac OS X for example, I need to link with "-framework Python", on
traditional Unix (i.e. "non-framework-builds" of python) I have to use
"-L /usr/local/lib/python2.3/config -lpython2.3" instead. I'm shure that
there will be some config variables available through the distutils
package that give the information needed, but I couldn't find
appropriate documentation on this.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mark (python newbie)

P.S.: Any working autoconf m4 macros for embedding python out there?


From stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org  Mon Mar  8 01:31:54 2004
From: stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 06:31:54 GMT
Subject: Final Project - GUI front-end  - Accessing and returning data
 from a file
In-Reply-To: <433f4c9a.0403072054.3dcc27a6@posting.google.com>
References: <433f4c9a.0403072054.3dcc27a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <urU2c.744142$X%5.484550@pd7tw2no>

Bugsyboy9 wrote:

> Essentially, I want to have a GUI front-end asking the user for what
> inventory item they are looking for, have them click an enter button,
> have the code search a file for the requesters string and return the
> information within the same GUI front-end.

well, probably the easiest GUI toolkit out there is easygui, 
http://www.ferg.org/easygui/index.html

It's procedural, rather than event-driven, and will allow you to create 
simple dialogs that ask the user for input and provide output back to 
them. You only need to install one file on top of the regular Python, so 
long as Tkinter is part of that installation.

Good luck!

s



From news at grauer-online.de  Sun Mar  7 17:06:13 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:06:13 +0100
Subject: How do I define a __del__ method for an object?
In-Reply-To: <404B7893.8060408@SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org>
References: <404B7893.8060408@SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org>
Message-ID: <c2g6cb$34e$1@online.de>

Stewart,

__del__ is used for object destruction.

Read:

http://python.org/doc/current/ref/customization.html#l2h-175

Uwe

Stewart Midwinter wrote:
> I was looking through Swaroop's tutorial, "A Byte of Python", on Python 
> objects,(http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/), and he mentions that you can 
> define a __del__ function to completely delete object instances. 
> However, when I try to define one in the attached script, not just one, 
> but all, of the defined objects disappear.
> 
> Can someone show me how to define a __del__ object that works on only 
> one object instance?
> 
> Thanks
> Stewart
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> # Filename: objvar.py
> # from Swaroop's A Byte of Python, 
> # http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/byte/ch11s05.html
> 
> class Person:
>         '''class Person represents a person.'''
>         population = 0
>         
>         def __init__(self, name):
>                 '''Initializes the person.'''
>                 self.name = name
>                 print '(Initializing %s)' % self.name
>                 
>                 # When this person is created,
>                 # he/she adds to the population
>                 Person.population += 1
> 
> 	def sayHi(self):
>                 '''Method sayHi greets the other person.
>                 Really, that's all it does.'''
>                 print 'Hi, my name is %s.' % self.name
> 
>         
>         def howMany(self):
>                 '''Prints the current population.'''
>                 # There will always be atleast one person
>                 if Person.population == 1:
>                         print 'I am the only person here.'
>                 else:
>                         print 'We have %s persons here.' % \
>                         Person.population
> 
> 	def sayDie(self):
> 		'''when a person dies,
> 		   she reduces the population by one,
> 		   but she is still remembered.'''
> 		print self.name, 'has died.'
> 		Person.population -= 1
> 	
> 		
> 
> swaroop = Person('Swaroop')
> swaroop.sayHi()
> swaroop.howMany()
> 
> kalam   = Person('Abdul Kalam')
> kalam.sayHi()
> kalam.howMany()
> 
> swaroop.sayHi()
> swaroop.howMany()
> 
> kalam.sayDie()
> kalam.howMany()
> #kalam.__del__('Abdul Kalam')
> abdul = Person('Abdul')
> abdul.sayHi()
> abdul.howMany()
> print kalam.sayHi.__doc__
> print Person.__doc__


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Mar 30 11:27:44 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:27:44 +0100
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Gerrit wrote:
> only one. I think it is the wrong answer to say that people shouldn't
> bitch about top-posting - it _does_ annoy people (including me and Aahz).

Will you please reign in you ego and qualify your statement 'it annoys 
*SOME* people'. I find all the bitching about top posting to be a 
greater distraction than top posting itself!

> There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they are there
> with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
> 'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.

I find bottom posting to be a real pain as when I look at a new message 
it defaults to showing me the top of the message and I then have to 
scroll through pages of quoted posts that I have already read just to 
read one or two lines stuck at the bottom.

> Really, it does - please try it...

It also doesn't, so once you have worked out how to keep both parties 
happy, perhaps 'middle posting' would be a working compromise, you can 
get on to curing cancer and bringing peace to the middle east.

I have never left a group because of the trolls.
I have never left a group because of the noobies.
I have left a group because of the constant whining about top posting.

People who whine on about 'top posting' are the sort of people who draft 
'clean desk' policies. If you want to whine about top posting then start 
alt.whine.top.posting and have fun.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 13:37:07 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 10:37:07 -0800
Subject: How to process Chinese using Python?
Message-ID: <14b36d18.0403051037.21d6f8e6@posting.google.com>

I don't know how to make use of the encodings and what encoding I
should use.  The PEP 0263 page is not helpful.

Whenever I have Chinese characters in my Python code, I get this
warning message:

C:\Python23\codes>python stripper.py
sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xc0' in file
stripper.py on lin
e 22, but no encoding declared; see
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for
 details

when I attempt to execute it.

It still warns even if I add 

# -*- coding: <utf-8> -*- 

to the beginning of the code, as PEP 0263 seems to have suggested.

Any idea about processing east-asian languages, Chinese in particular?


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 10 19:40:05 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:40:05 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>

Hey guys, let's not go in four different directions and waste all this
bandwidth on debating the four examples I gave.  Everyone has
different ideas on enhancing the language.  If you believe this is a
bad idea, regardless of the particular examples, let's talk.

If you believe as I do that Python is not yet the ultimate language,
and some syntactical changes are still to come, then it seems like
using a very distinct symbol like @ may have some merits.  This is not
a suggestion to make the language "perlesque".  The difference is that
@ not a menagerie of symbols with various tricky meanings, but one
very noticable and unique symbol that says "Pay attention, I am
different."  It has no other meaning.

Wouldn't it be nice, for example, if instead of special keywords like
'lambda' and 'yield', we had used '@(args)' and '@return'.  ( No, I'm
not advocating we go back and change what has been done.)  In both
these cases, we had a well-established syntax that needed a slight
variation.  

The 'lambda function' for example, was needed to cram a small block of
code into a tight space.  By saying '@x,y:' instead of 'lambda x,y:',
we not only avoid the need for a new keyword, but we better serve the
purpose of tightly packing some code.  We would also avoid mystifying
beginners.  "It has no magic meaning.  It's just a way to write a
function without a name."

Sorry if my intentions weren't clear in my original post.

-- Dave

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:01:00 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
>break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python, is
>easy to type, easy to read, and is clearly distinct from the "base"
>syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
>situations.  Examples:

[ add your own examples here ]

>Each of these examples is debatable, but my point is that there are
>many enhancement requests like this, and some may be worthy of
>inclusion in the core language.  It would be nice if there was a
>consistent way to add stuff like this.  It certainly beats adding ugly
>statements like 'lambda'.
>
>It might even be possible to allow limited extension of the language
>by users, provided the extensions are introduced by the special
>symbol.  This would allow the flexibility of Ruby or Lisp without the
>cost of forking the language into many dialects.
>
>Maybe we should collect a bunch of little enhancements like the above,
>and put them all into one PEP.  Any suggestions?  Pet peeves?  Stuff
>you would like to see, but not worthy of a PEP by itself?



From mmaru at allstream.net  Tue Mar  9 20:40:22 2004
From: mmaru at allstream.net (Mulugeta Maru)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:40:22 -0600
Subject: Searching comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

I went to the Python site to search posts made by group members. I am not
sure whether there is this functionality exists. If it does could you please
help a new comer.

Thanks.

MM




From nikita_raja at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 17:10:44 2004
From: nikita_raja at yahoo.com (Sam Smith)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 14:10:44 -0800
Subject: Optparse: Detecting if option or option-arg is specified or not
Message-ID: <b19beb92.0403111410.4202c2b3@posting.google.com>

I am using optparse for the commandline parsing for my programs.  I
was wondering if it is possible to detect if an option or option-arg
has been specified on the commandline by the user or not. Please do
not suggest default value solutions.

Thanks.


From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 09:54:42 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 06:54:42 -0800
Subject: Front end python backend php
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403290654.35829baf@posting.google.com>

Hi 
I have a front end developed in PHP
Now I want to develop the backeend(database connection & stuff) in
python.
How can I call a python module from php on submitting my page??
Also how can i output the values return by python module on gui which
is developed in PHP ??
Thanks


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 29 10:46:05 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:46:05 -0500
Subject: Wierd problem with replace
In-Reply-To: <c49g08$r69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c49g08$r69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <fqWdnWku8Y0g2fXd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Florian Lindner wrote:
> Hello,
> I've this code:
> 
>     print "Login1:", login
>     login.replace("@","_")
>     print "Login2:", login
> 
> Which produces this output:
> 
>     Login1: tester at root
>     Login2: tester at root
> 
> Why is Login2 still tester at root and not tester_root? I thought that I've
> replaced the @ with _??

Trying it at the command line might be instructive:

 >>> login = 'tester at root'
 >>> print "Login1:", login
Login1: tester at root
 >>> login.replace("@", "_")
'tester_root'
 >>> login
'tester at root'

Strings are immutable.  The call to replace() does not modify
the original string, but returns a new one.  You'll see similar
behaviour with other string methods (or any methods on immutables).

-Peter


From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Wed Mar 31 12:05:09 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:05:09 -0800
Subject: wxPython book (was Re: Python Documentation Blows!)
In-Reply-To: <c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com> <c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9TCac.683$JX6.99@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64 at nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>,
> francois lepoutre <franck.lepoutre at caramail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Possibly a smart (and not necessarily big) wxpython book could prove a
>>decisive argument for wxpython and python as well specifically for the
>>"MS visual *" and delphi user communities.
> 
> 
> There's one in the pipeline.  Don't know how much more than that I
> should say; 

We've just had our 1/3 review, with lots of positive and constructive 
feedback from the reviewers.  There's still lots to do but it is moving 
ahead at a steady pace.

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar  7 21:10:57 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:10:57 +1100
Subject: Question on loops
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE0145F3B0@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Daniel H Neilson
> 
> i = 0
> for line in file:
>     if i == 100:
>         action
>         i = 0
>     else:
>         i += 1
>     process(line)
> 
> But this doesn't feel like a very python-esque solution to me, and is
> not very elegant in any case. What would be a better way to do it?

If you're using Python 2.3.x

for i, line in enumerate(file):
    if i % 100 == 0:
        action

    process(line)

Tim Delaney



From frr149 at telefonica.net  Thu Mar  4 05:46:23 2004
From: frr149 at telefonica.net (Boogie El Aceitoso)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:46:23 +0100
Subject: Especialized generator
Message-ID: <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6@4ax.com>

Hi,

I want to write a generator that specializes on os.walk. It should yield only
certain kinds of files.

What's the best way of doing this? How do you save the state on the base
generator?

TIA


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 17 21:02:46 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:02:46 -0500
Subject: how to do non-blocking I/O
In-Reply-To: <mailman.105.1079557901.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.105.1079557901.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gZudnUJrGfDbnsTdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

J. Xu wrote:

> I am a newbie to python. I am writing a client application, I need to 
> read query results from the server. Mostly I'll have a file object for 
> the connection to the server. So I use read() or readline() to get the 
> response. But since these are blocking calls, I have to use a seperate 
> thread for the input reading. But then I have another problem, my input 
> thread running in the following loop
> 
> while not quit:
>    str = ins.readline()
>    .... process the response
> 
> so I can't terminate the thread when it's blocking in the readline() 
> until the connection is closed. So looks like I need to use non-blocking 
> IO such as select() or poll(). But since I need this application to be 
> cross-platform, and these are not well supported on Windows, I don't 
> know what to do.

select() is perfectly well supported (to a reasonable degree anyway) on 
Windows, at least with actual sockets.  Don't know whether it applies to 
file objects attached to sockets, and never had cause to check...

If you can use the sockets themselves, with .recv() instead, then you 
can safely use select() even on Windows.

-Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 15:23:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:23:58 -0600
Subject: A question about Python's  API
In-Reply-To: <200403130953.27476.gherron@islandtraining.com>
References: <200403130953.27476.gherron@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <16467.28126.407858.525747@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Gary> There is a function named PyEval_EvalCode which looks like the
    Gary> right thing to use, but it's not part of the published API, and
    Gary> it's definition is not included when one #include's Python.h.
    Gary> Nevertheless, I've suggested that he #include eval.h and try
    Gary> calling the function to see if it is what he wants.

    Gary> So ...  Is this our oversight, and there really is something in
    Gary> the API to execute the code object returned by Py_CompileString,
    Gary> or should the API be enhanced to include PyEval_EvalCode or
    Gary> something similar?

Looks like a bug in Include/Python.h.  Thanks for pointing it out.

Skip




From zknws at 1zk.net  Thu Mar 25 20:14:22 2004
From: zknws at 1zk.net (Zeek)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:14:22 +0200
Subject: Creating WBMPs with PIL
Message-ID: <c40087$4r$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Folks,

Anyone has implemented WBMP creation using PIL?

There used to be one called wbmpconvsrc.zip at
http://www.rcp.co.uk/distributed/Downloads
 but the link is not functioning anymore

Thanks in advance!






From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 11:09:19 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:09:19 -0800
Subject: Tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <40684655.2060602@stackless.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40682BD8.3040501@stackless.com>
	<40684458.9030507@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40684655.2060602@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <40684A2F.9050800@mlug.missouri.edu>


> Once again:
> They use tabs but they want to do 4 space indentation.
> That means they use a tab when it fits, and 4 spaces when not...
>
> def mixed_tabs():
> ....if blah: # this is 4 spaces
> --------pass # this is one tab

Ahh, I think I follow you. I think that'd be the mark of a bad coder. 
Whichever method of indenting a program uses should be carried out in a 
uniform manner. Either all spaces or all tabs. I just use one tab per 
level of indention. One space per level of indention would also be 
acceptable to me (but hard to read). Four spaces to me would be 
confussing (because of the need to count) and annoying (because of the 
need to press space four times per level of indention per line). Mixed 
would be right out.



From nhv at cape.com  Tue Mar  9 09:11:08 2004
From: nhv at cape.com (Norman Vine)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:11:08 -0500
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu><mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<12dq1z2aca4l2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <c2kj8g$mjb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thorsten Kampe  writes:
>> > 
> > Does rebasing your Cygwin installation help?
> > 
> >     http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README
> 
> This helped with the IPython problem, thanks. Unfortunately idle under
> Cygwin has the same problem. I rebased the five TclTk dlls but that
> didn't changed the error ("os error: resource temporarily
> unavailable").
> 
> For obvious reason I didn't want to rebase the whole Cygwin
> installation because that would break a lot of things...

I rebase the whole Cygwin system whenever I run into issues
building a Python extension

http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2003-06/msg01216.html

HTH

Norman




From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 22 18:51:35 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 18:51:35 -0500
Subject: Newbie Formatting Question
References: <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680@news.teleline.es>
Message-ID: <m27jxcphiw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:33:34 GMT,
. <soyyo at NOSPAMterra.es> wrote:

> I'm going through "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist", and 
> am in chapter 11. (aside: what do you think of the book? any 
> recommendations for other books?)

Can't help here.

> print "%-20x %12.02f" % (student, wages[student])

> I understand what's going on, and the example works fine.  I
> just don't understand what the 0 is doing in the %12.02f format
> specification. I thought it might be to force padding zeroes,
> but I get the same result with or without the 0. Also, %12.0002f
> gives the same result. Was this a typo, or is there something
> that I'm not understanding?

The number after the decimal point is the number of digits that
should come out (surprise!) after the decimal point:

    >>> for x in range( 10 ):
         f = '%20.' + str( x ) + 'f' # or f = '%%20.%df' % x
         print f % 1.2

                       1
                     1.2
                    1.20
                   1.200
                  1.2000
                 1.20000
                1.200000
               1.2000000
              1.20000000
             1.200000000

The padding/filling comes for free, as part of the format string
containing a number after the decimal poiint.  So '%6.2f',
'%6.02f', and '%6.00002f' mean exactly the same thing, namely to
put 2 digits after the decimal point (and if that means padding
with zeroes, then so be it).

HTH,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Mar  6 05:53:14 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:53:14 +0100
Subject: attachment
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403060045.7ae84d33@posting.google.com>
References: <f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9@posting.google.com>
	<f046efac.0403060045.7ae84d33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4049ad99$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:

> ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>>Hi
>>I am trying to upload a file using <input type="file"....>
>>I want to know what is the best way to store this uploaded file 
>>Should I store it in the databse??
>>Or should I store the entire file on the server??
> 
> 
> If I decide to store the file on the server,then di I have to use ftp
> to copy the file on the server??

No, the actual file contents is submitted as part of the HTTP POST request.
(make sure you use method="post" and enctype="multipart/form-data" in your form).
Python's cgi module knows how to deal with it.

Where you store your file is entirely up to you and depends on what
you want to do with it.

--Irmen


From balaji at email.arizona.edu  Mon Mar 29 12:32:42 2004
From: balaji at email.arizona.edu (Balaji)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 09:32:42 -0800
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
References: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c48153$909$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c48ho9$d69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c48nu8$smj$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <494182a9.0403290932.5e09cfc6@posting.google.com>

Thanks for all the initial help....

Sorry for bugging you again...

Here is a part of my code..

Suppose if some body wants to assign an e=E() to an expression class..

he may define then e=v+v1(where v and v1 both belong to a variable class)

now again if we define say v2=V() and then try to multiply v2 with e then I want
to raise an error that it is a nonlinear term..

So  what I though was if i keep track of all the instances id then I might raise
an exception...

But the problem was i couldnt check the right side of an assigment...

Can the right side of an assignment be checked...
class E:
    def __init__(self):
        print "E",id(self)
        
    def __add__(self,e2):
        e = E()
        e.operator = '+'
        e.left = self
        e.right = e2
        return e
        
    def __sub__(self,e2):
        e = E()
        e.operator = '-'
        e.left = self
        e.right = e2
        return e

    def __mul__(self,m2):
        e = E()
        e.operator = '*'
        e.left = self
        e.right = m2
        return e
    
    def __div__(self,d1):
        e = E()
        e.operator = '/'
        e.left = self
        e.right = d1
        return e
        
    
    def __str__(self):
        return str(self.left) + self.operator + str(self.right)
check=[]
class V(E):
    """ This is a variable for MPY"""
    def __init__(self):
        print id(self)
        check.append(id(self))
        self.val = None
    
    
    def __mul__(self,m2):
              e=E()
              if self.__class__ == m2.__class__:
                  return "non"
              else:
                   e=E() 
                   e.operator = '*'
                   e.left = self
                   e.right = m2
                   return e
--- Balaji


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 14:08:07 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 11:08:07 -0800
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403171108.2498efd3@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Sitting for long periods in an interactive session and expecting it to track
> your changes is foreign to me.  
> ...

Not sure whether this is related to what you are talking about. In
VC/VB, while debugging a program, it is very often to get into this
situation:

(a) you have loops somewhere, (say, from i=0 to i=2000000)
(b) your program fails at some particular points in the loop,
(c) your debugger tells you there is a problem (and maybe you have
some assertion points,) and the execution stops at that point.
(d) you want to add some more debugging code to narrow down the spot,
or narrow down or the condition of the error,
(e) if you do not have good IDE, you'll have to start your program all
over again. But in VC/VB, you just insert some more code, and resume
the execution, all in matter of seconds. And you have much better
insight into the source and nature of the bug. (Is the bug from the
code? Is the bug from the data? What to do? Is the bug from C++? Is
the bug coming from stored-procedure in the database?)

Is this pure theory talk? No, because I just need to use it, now.

Without interactive programming's edit-and-continue feature, very
often you have to stop the program, insert just a few lines of code,
and restart again. This turns really bad when the initial state setup
takes time. Of course, if your programs don't take much initial setup
time, then you won't be able to realize the need or benefit of
edit-and-continue.

Sure, you can unit test things all you want. But in real life,
interactive debugging is, and will always be, the king of bug killers,
especially in large and complex systems.

> Maybe it's just the nature of your users and their background, but an
> (edit/test/run)+ cycle seems much more common in the Python community than a
> run/(edit/reload)+ cycle.  

It all depends. For Zope's external methods (CGIs), you don't restart
the whole web/app server everytime you make changes to a CGI. The
run/(edit/reload) cycle is the typical behavior of long-running
applications. (Except for some earlier versions of Java and
Microsoft's web/app servers, where you DID have to restart. And that
was very annoying.)

An analogy is with Windows 95, where everytime you install/update an
application you need to reboot the OS. We know how annoying that is.
Edit-and-continue addresses a similar problem.

By the way, I am told that Common Lisp also has good edit-and-continue
feature.

regards,

Hung Jung


From randall at tnr.cc  Wed Mar 17 14:07:36 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:07:36 GMT
Subject: how best to iterate i times ?
Message-ID: <Yl16c.298$1r6.18@fe2.texas.rr.com>

In the case I know how may times I want to iterate, one way to do it is 
like this:

for i in range(100000):
	dothis()

I like how clean this syntax is, but this method is very wasteful.  The 
list created by range(100000) consumes a fair amount of memory and it is 
only used to iterate.

This uses less memory:

i = 0
while i <= 100000:
	dothis()
	i = i + 1
del i

The problem with the while loop is that it is ugly.  I have to introduce 
a new variable i, and assign a new value every time I loop.  Also, any 
links I may have to i, say (y = i) will break when I reassign with (i = 
i + 1) rather than y continuing to = i.

Example
i = 0
y = i
while i <= 100000:
	dothis()
	i = i + 1

print i # i == 100001
print y # y == 0

There are times when I need to know the state of an 'iterator'.

So, question is:  What is the efficient, elegant, pythonic way to 
iterate with integers?

Randall


From jason at tishler.net  Mon Mar  8 11:28:40 2004
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:28:40 -0500
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
In-Reply-To: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20040308162840.GB2032@tishler.net>

Fernando,

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:01:05AM -0700, Fernando Perez wrote:
> Any help would be much appreciated.

Does rebasing your Cygwin installation help?

    http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6



From "daniel\" at (none)  Thu Mar 11 13:43:44 2004
From: "daniel\" at (none) (@(none))
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:43:44 +0100
Subject: Python database
In-Reply-To: <40507a0d$1@e-post.inode.at>
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se> <40507a0d$1@e-post.inode.at>
Message-ID: <4050b33f$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>

> If you want to make a Wiki-Page with full-text-search:
> ==> http://moin.sourceforge.net/
> and: its based on python and Apache

I've been checking that out already. It's not quite what I want. To be 
honest, I want to reinvent the wheel :)   I would like to make my own 
wiki-clone (it's fun!) but I don't want to spend to much time with the 
data base so I need something simple.

Maybe I'm too rude who is asking questions here without first reading 
online manuals and tutorials in-depth. It's just that after like one 
hour of browsing the web (and skimming Steve Holdens book) there doesn't 
seem to be any clear winner. I would like something standard and I had 
hoped that there would be a standard Python module which would help me, 
but there is not, or so it seems to me.

           / Have a nice day!



From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Mar 16 12:51:43 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:51:43 -0800
Subject: list inheritance or delegation?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EF3@opus.amorhq.net>

George Young wrote:
> I need an object that behaves much like a list, but has some
> additional features.  It seems that I can do this either by
> inheriting from type list, or by emulating list by defining
> __len__, __getitem__, and maybe a bunch of  other methods.  Thirdly,
> I could inherit from UserList, but that's deprecated now.
> 
> Inheriting from list would save me implementing a bunch of methods
> that I might want.  But if I inherit from list, how do I get access
> to the data?  E.g., I need a customized 'setitem' method that does
> the insert and then does some other things too.  With 
> UserList, I could:
> 
> class mylist(UserList):
>    def __setitem__(self,i,y):
> 	self.dostuff(y)
> 	self.data[i]=y
> 
> but when inheriting from 'list', I'm not sure how to do this.

I'll let others answer the deeper questions. For now, just wanted to
recommend you call the superclass to handle your __setitem__ example
(subclassing from list):

class mylist(list):
    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
        dostuff(value)
        list.__setitem__(self, key, value)


HTH!

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Mar 19 07:22:06 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:22:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ftplib - uploading files using transfercmd?
References: <ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3eole$e3j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Kevin Ollivier <kevino at tulane.edu> writes:

>Hi all,

>I've come across a problem that has me stumped, and I thought I'd send
>a message to the gurus to see if this makes sense to anyone else. =) 

>Basically, I'm trying to upload a series of files via FTP. I'm using
>ftplib to do it, and for each file I'm using transfercmd("STOR " +
>myfile) to get the socket, then uploading 4096 bytes at a time and
>providing status updates via a GUI interface. Finally, I close the
>socket, set it to None, then move on to the next file. I'm using
>active FTP to upload.

>The first file uploads just fine, but on the second file I'm
>consistently seeing a weird problem where the response to the PORT
>command (sent by self.makeport()) comes *after* the STOR command is
>sent. The order in which the commands are sent doesn't seem to differ,
>only the order in which the FTP server responds differs. This causes
>the transfercmd() call to see an 'error' because the repsonse to the
>PORT command is a 200, but it expects a response in the 100s. I've
>posted the actual FTP debug calls below. 

>I can resolve the problem by continually re-logging into the server,
>but I'd like to avoid doing that if possible. I've tried setting the
>file mode to binary as well as ASCII with the same results.

>Any clues on what I may be going wrong? Has anyone seen anything like
>this before? I couldn't find anything while googling... TIA for any
>help!

>Kevin

  >#uploading first file...
  >*cmd* u'CWD /newlook/tutorial/'
  >*put* u'CWD /newlook/tutorial/\r\n'
  >*get* '250 CWD command successful.\r\n'
  >*resp* '250 CWD command successful.'
  >*cmd* 'TYPE I'
  >*put* 'TYPE I\r\n'
  >*get* '200 Type set to I.\r\n'
  >*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
  >item = /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm
  >*cmd* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,230'
  >*put* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,230\r\n'
  >*get* '200 PORT command successful.\r\n'
  >*resp* '200 PORT command successful.'
  >*cmd* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm'
  >*put* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm\r\n'
  >*get* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
  >/newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm.\r\n'
  >*resp* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for
  >/newlook/tutorial/pub/working_with_themes.htm.'
* >*cmd* 'TYPE I'
* >*put* 'TYPE I\r\n'
* >*get* '226 Transfer complete.\r\n'
* >*resp* '226 Transfer complete.'

  >#uploading second file...
  >item = /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm
  >*cmd* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,231'
  >*put* 'PORT 192,168,1,103,13,231\r\n'
  >*get* '200 Type set to I.\r\n'
  >*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
  >*cmd* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm'
  >*put* u'STOR /newlook/tutorial/pub/Changing_Page_Properties_1.htm\r\n'
  >*get* '200 PORT command successful.\r\n'
  >*resp* '200 PORT command successful.'
  >Traceback (most recent call last):
  >  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 1083, in
  >UploadPage
  >    self.UploadFiles(ftpfiles)
  >  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 921, in
  >UploadFiles
  >    ftp.UploadFiles()
  >  File "F:\oss\eclass\eclass_builder\editor.py", line 1908, in
  >UploadFiles
  >    self.mysocket = self.host.transfercmd('STOR ' + dir + myitem)
  >  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
  >    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  >  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\ftplib.py", line 336, in ntransfercmd
  >    raise error_reply, resp
  >ftplib.error_reply: 200 PORT command successful.

I suspect the problem is in the bit marked with *.  You are somehow sending
out a new FTP command before the previous was finished.  The 226 belonged to
the transfer command but was eaten by the TYPE command, leaving a dangling
response to the TYPE command.  Are you perhaps not waiting for the retrbinary
method to finish before sending another?  Remember, there is more for
retrbinary to read after it has called the callback for the last time so you
must wait for it to finish.

Eddie


From no at sp.am  Wed Mar 10 15:41:38 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:41:38 -0600
Subject: Graphics.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.240.1078942350.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.240.1078942350.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9sednbkXjaYZ4NLdRVn-gg@comcast.com>

Jonathan Daugherty wrote:
> Right now my objective is to find a good API that will allow me to
> perform fast alpha and blitting operations for a fancy menu system.
> Do any of you have experience and subsequent advice?  I'm leaning
> toward pygame.

I'm not sure what you mean by a fancy menu system, but
you can do OpenGL stuff in PyGame too, just install pygame and pyopengl.

See also PyUI, an alpha gui toolkit that works on top of pygame and/or 
pyopengl: http://pyui.sourceforge.net/


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 29 00:59:42 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:59:42 +1200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> On a separate issue, the Prothon developers seem to have the mistaken
> view that commas influence line continuation in Python. They don't -
> but parentheses, square brackets and braces do. Though the Prothon
> extra-indentation system (which is similar to Haskells offside rule, I
> suppose) is an interesting idea.

I like that, too, but why do they require *two* extra levels of
indenting to trigger it? Surely one would be enough?

Some other impressions:

* I'm not sure I like the leading-dot notation. The code
   examples look untidy to my eyes; there's too much punctuation
   and not enough stuff being punctuated. Maybe I could get
   used to it... or maybe not.

* I definitely don't like the line-noise & and @ prefixes.
   At least I would never have to use the @ (who in their
   right mind actually *wants* dynamic scoping in this day
   and age?-)

* A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
   wouldn't go amiss. Having to say

     Thing = Base()
     with Thing:
        ...

   every time I want to define a class (oops, sorry, prototype)
   would drive me batty. I'd much rather write something like

     object Thing(Base):
       ...

   By the way, did anyone figure out how you give an object
   multiple prototypes? I don't remember seeing an example of
   that.

* It's not clear whether there is any such thing as a bound
   method in Prothon, i.e. whether you can do

     f = someobj.somemeth
     f()

   and have it do what a Pythoneer would expect. And if so,
   what happens if you do

     f = someobj.somemeth
     someotherobj.g = f
     someotherobj.g()

   What does the "self" object inside the call to somemeth
   refer to then -- someobj, or someotherobj?

   Answering that question may shed some light on what was
   asked earlier: Do we really need classes?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 17 10:21:46 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:21:46 -0600
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <20040317074814.17181.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040317072606.1235.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040317074814.17181.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16472.27914.213380.777734@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Anthony> Can I download a copy of the cjkcodecs and put it in my home
    Anthony> directory and then set some kind of path so that Python knows
    Anthony> where that package is?

Yes.

    Anthony> Is this doable?  If yes, how do I set the path?

Yes.  Google for PYTHONPATH.  Also, read the sys module documentation
pertaining to sys.path.

Skip



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 09:53:16 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:53:16 -0600
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
In-Reply-To: <roy-03189A.08483712032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-03189A.08483712032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16465.52956.35691.13784@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> What version of python-mode.el are you using?  I use the latest
    >> version from CVS (4.51).

    Roy> I just downloaded python-mode.el a couple of days ago from
    Roy> www.python.org and got version 4.6, for use with GNU Emacs 21.2.1
    Roy> on my Mac OSX box.

Hmmm...  I'll have to track that down and update it.  I don't see
python-mode.el in the source for the python.org website.  Do you have a URL?

Try the version here instead:

    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python-mode/python-mode/

Although as others have pointed out this may be more of a GNU Emacs config
issue.  Python-mode tries to use the font highlighting capabilities of the
system it's running on.

Skip



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Mar 12 07:35:57 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:35:57 GMT
Subject: Python database access questions
References: <aa18a5ab.0403120319.9b76dc1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc53blc.dj1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <aa18a5ab.0403120319.9b76dc1 at posting.google.com>, Limey wrote:

> ADO allows you to reference field objects when manipulating records
> retrieved from the database, this makes your code less likely to be
> broken by reordering of the columns of say a "select * from table"
> query, it also allows you to get information on the datatypes of the
> fields and so on.

Some of the dbapi compliant modules (e.g. pyPgSQL) return row objects that
can be queried by position or field name.  Some (psycopg) provide dictfetch*
methods that return rows as dictionaries instead of tuples.  And converting
the rows to dictionaries is trivial anyway:

cursor.execute(blah)
col_names = [tup[0] for tup in cursor.description]
dict_results = [dict(zip(col_names, row)) for row in cursor.fetchall()]

> ADO also provides a safer way to pass information when using parameter
> queries or stored procedures, you have a parameter object that you can
> assign parameter values to and any problems such as "' " /" within the
> string are then handled by the objects to prevent breakage of the sql
> statement passed to the RDBMS.

All the postgres dbapi modules can interpolate input using pyformat:

data = {'name' : 'Dobbs, Bob', 'phone_no' : '555-1212'}
cursor.execute("""INSERT INTO contact (name, phone_no) 
                  VALUES (%(name)s, %(phone_no)s)""", data)

(You can have more keys in your dict than in the query, they will be ignored,
but not too few, obviously.)

> ADO allows you to create a "recordset" that allwos you to iterate
> through the records and columns and also then assign values to the
> field objects within and update these changes with method calls, it
> seems all this type of stuff needs to be manually done with DB-API
> i.e. you would have to create all the DML statements for this.

There are various modules that sit on top of the DBAPI that add similar
features.  I wrote my own. Python string handling makes it fairly easy.

You might want to investigate SQLObject or other object-relational mappers:

http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/ObjectRelationalMappersForPython

Dave Cook


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sun Mar 14 05:31:57 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:31:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Types in Python
In-Reply-To: <20040313174554.18655.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040314103157.93488.qmail@web8309.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Sean McKay <mckay_sean at yahoo.com> wrote: > Have
you seen Pyrex?  It is python w/ C types. 
> Perhaps that is what you
> are looking for.
> 
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/
> 
> HTH,
> Sean
> 
> =====
> Don't be anxious about tomorrow.  God will take care
> of your tomorrow too.  Live one day at a time.  --
> Matthew 6:34 TLB
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com 

Interesting...shall take a look.

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From bogus at bogus.net  Wed Mar 17 10:30:27 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:30:27 GMT
Subject: Compare recursively objects
References: <LcZ5c.6697$kc2.157952@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <na_5c.5$1r6.1@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Nicolas Fleury" <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in message
news:LcZ5c.6697$kc2.157952 at nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Hi everyone,
> Is there a way to compare recursively two objects (compare their
> members recursively)?  I'm only interested in equality or non-equality
> (no need for lower-than...).
>
> Thx and Regards,
> Nicolas
If you're comparing lists, here's an example (although list1==list2 also
works, see the verification in the test() function).  If you're comparing
something else, the logic is similar.

This example also does short-circuiting, in that it stops testing for
equality once the first mismatch is found.  Also, there is a slight
short-cut in isEqualElement, in comparison of two objects for equal identity
before testing for equal value.

-- Paul


def compareLists(lst1, lst2):

    def isEqualElement(e1,e2):
        print "Comparing",e1,"and",e2
        if e1 is e2:
            return True

        if type(e1) is type(e2):
            if isinstance(e1,list):
                return compareLists(e1,e2)
            else:
                return e1 == e2
        else:
            return False

    # or the same thing as a lambda, just remove '0' from name to
    # use the lambda instead
    isEqualElement0 = (lambda e1,e2:
        (e1 is e2) or
        ( ( type(e1) is type(e2) ) and
          ( ( isinstance(e1,list) and compareLists(e1,e2) ) or
          (e1 == e2) )
          )
        )

    if len(lst1) != len(lst2):
        return False

    for e1,e2 in zip(lst1,lst2):
        if not isEqualElement(e1,e2):
            return False

    return True


def test(lst1, lst2):
    print "Test:", lst1,"<->",lst2
    print compareLists(lst1,lst2)
    print lst1 == lst2
    print


test([1,2,3], [1,2,3])
test([1,2,3], [1,2])
test([1,'2',3], [1,2,3])
test([1,2,[3,4,5],6], [1,2,[3,4,5],6])
test([1,2,[3,4],6], [1,2,[3,4,5],6])
test([1,2,[7,4,5],6], [1,2,[3,4,5],6])




From wolfke99 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 24 21:36:37 2004
From: wolfke99 at hotmail.com (mephisto)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 18:36:37 -0800
Subject: Can this be done with python?
References: <8ee9ed23.0403231007.5805e675@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ee9ed23.0403241836.76ecdc58@posting.google.com>

Tnx for the help guys. The answer of my last question is also a yes.
Found that out by trying a python program. :)


From bucknuggets at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 16:19:24 2004
From: bucknuggets at yahoo.com (Buck Nuggets)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 13:19:24 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>	<66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.86.1080611520.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<66a61715.0403300657.61323b0e@posting.google.com>
	<8ea19805001359792a4e52ab984a1e8c@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <66a61715.0403311319.4b418d90@posting.google.com>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote in message news:<8ea19805001359792a4e52ab984a1e8c at news.teranews.com>...

> From a crusty old unix developer to a crusty old database developer...
> Part 2 can be done by piping the output of sort to the 'uniq' program
> (available in cygwin and mingw also, I think).
> 
> And it's no effort, if it fits the bill.  It may be inneficient with 
> regards to sorting algorithms, but extremely efficient in terms of
> system and developer resources.

ha, yep - forgot to mention that you can drop dupes right in some sort
utilities or via a program like uniq.

I suppose the only reason to use python after the sort would be if you
have some unusual rules to include in the delta calculation (don't
include this record if status-field='del', etc).

ks


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Mar 30 12:32:30 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:32:30 -0300
Subject: Python spanish FAQ
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383802@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People:

It's already published in www.python.org the Python General FAQ in spanish:

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/es/

Enjoy it.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
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en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

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Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar  9 21:13:44 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:13:44 -0700
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <041001c40645$52766f20$6401fea9@YODA>

Tim wrote:
> One of the things I find myself needing over and over is providing an
> external configuration file for use by my applications. For various
> reasons, I have not been satisfied with other solutions to this problem
> I have seen so far.
>
> So ...I am about 25% done with a new Python module I've wanted to write
> for some time. It is intended as general purpose configuration file
> parser complete with conditionals, variable substitution, etc. The idea
> is that you hand it the name of a configuration file, and it returns a
> populated symbol table, ready-to-use.

Just curious, but does it offer much over just doing this:

In a file called config.py:

optionA = 'foo'

optionB = 'bar'

class Network:
    optionC = 'baz'

And then in your application doing:

import config

config.optionA
config.Network.optionC

etc..?

That's what I use now and it pretty much does everything I want - the dummy
classes give an easy named hierarchy/grouping of values, and since it's just a
Python module you also get built-in support for conditionals, variable
substitution, etc. Also, you don't have to write code to do a bunch of syntax
verification since Python does that for you. I've used this on several projects
where the config file is editable by non-programmers and they haven't had any
problems. I usually stick in the config all the documentation for each setting
too.

-Dave




From jussij at zeusedit.com  Thu Mar 25 21:53:01 2004
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:53:01 +1000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<bUm8c.123261$Wa.101889@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<tyf8yhphpr9.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <40639B0D.184F@zeusedit.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> > There was a well known case here in Australia at IBM where one 
> > person snuck in a compiler and managed to outperform all his 
> > colleagues until discovered.
> 
> Do you have a reference describing such an attempt?

I too have heard of this method of development. From memory I 
think it was call "clean room" software development.

It was back in the days when IBM was dreaming of sigma six
quality levels (ie bug count levels) with regard to software 
development.

Jussi Jumppanen
Author of: Zeus for Windows (All new version 3.92 out now)
"The C/C++, Cobol, Java, HTML, Python, PHP, Perl programmer's editor"
Home Page: http://www.zeusedit.com


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 24 03:44:10 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:44:10 +0100
Subject: Path Module and Py2exe
References: <8089854e.0403240026.62c51fab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <smfyeisl.fsf@python.net>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) writes:

> Has anyone succesfully used py2exe with the (excellent) path module by
> Jason Orendorff ?
>
> I use it regularly but tried to 'bundle' one of my applications that
> used it with py2exe last night. It failed with a 'maximum recursion
> depth' error in module finder - the full error report is below. It's
> obviously got some kind of 'cylical' error in the module importing
> code - which it isn't catching. I finally managed to isolate path as
> the source of the problem.
>
> A simple script that imports path and just prints path.getcwd() fails
> with the same error when I try to 'compile' it (I know, I know..)
> using py2exe.
>
> Unfortunately - if unresolvable - this will stop me using the module.
>
> I wondered if anyone had seen this before, or had any suggestions as
> to how to overcome this ?

That's a yet unresolved bug in modulefinder:

http://www.python.org/sf/876278

Possible workarounds are listed here:

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/PathModul

Thomas




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 10 06:28:38 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:28:38 +0100
Subject: name of this python program
In-Reply-To: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>
References: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <c2mu3b$cm3$1@swifty.westend.com>

leo schrieb:
> when i start a python script with 
>         python myprog.py 
> how can i find out the name of my script ("myprog.py") inside the script
> itself. looking for something like args[0]...

import sys
import os
print sys.argv[0]
print os.path.basename(sys.argv[0])

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Mar 11 07:55:26 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:55:26 +0100
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c2pnju$2t4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Radovan Garabik wrote:
> or, without leaving ascii:
>
> def (x)composition(y):
>     return lambda par: x(y(par))
> print (a composition b)(x)

or without leaving Python

class Composition:
    def __init__ (self, outer, inner):
        self.outer = outer
        self.inner = inner

    def __call__ (self, *args):
        return self.outer (self.inner (*args))

    def __str__ (self):
        return '%s ? %s' % (self.outer, self.inner)

Daniel





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Mar 26 20:45:13 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:45:13 -0500
Subject: Meta-class fun with PEP 318 [was Re: PEP 318 - posting draft]
References: <mailman.292.1080061340.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5059c.52103$re.2658589@news20.bellglobal.com>

[snip]
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> PEP: 318
> Title: Function/Method Decorator Syntax
[snip]
> Abstract
> ========
>
> The current method for declaring class and static methods is awkward
> and can lead to code that is difficult to understand.  Ideally, these
> transformations should be made at the same point in the code where the
> declaration itself is made.  This PEP introduces new syntax for
> transformations of a declaration.
>
>
> Motivation
> ==========
>
> The current method of applying a transformation to a function or
> method places the actual translation after the function body.  For
> large functions this separates a key component of the function's
> behavior from the definition of the rest of the function's external
> interface.  For example::
>
>     def foo(self):
>         perform method operation
>     foo = classmethod(foo)
>
> This becomes less readable with longer methods.  It also seems less
> than pythonic to name the function three times for what is
> conceptually a single declaration.  A solution to this problem is to
> move the transformation of the method closer to the method's own
> declaration.  While the new syntax is not yet final, the intent is to
> replace::
>
>     def foo(cls):
>         pass
>     foo = synchronized(lock)(foo)
>     foo = classmethod(foo)
>
> with an alternative that places the decoration in the function's
> declaration::
>
>     def foo(cls) using [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
>         pass
>


Just for fun, I thought I'd try a little meta-class hackery to bring
method decoration and method annotation (adding attributes to
a method) near/before the method declaration. This is *not*
meant as an alternative to PEP318 (for one thing, it only applies
to methods), I just wanted to see if/how it could be done.




import sys

def delayed_decorate(method, *decorators):
    "Decorate method during class instantation"
    for decorator in decorators:
        method = decorator(method)
    return method

# new syntax for this operation is being discussed on python dev ...
#   e.g.,
#       @author = "your name here"
def delayed_annotate(method, **attributes):
    "Annotate (add attributes to) method during class instantation"
    method.__dict__.update(attributes)

def annotate(funcname, **attributes):
    "Mark method for delayed annotation"
    clsdict = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
    clsdict.setdefault("annotated", {})[funcname] = attributes

def decorate(funcname, *decorators):
    "Mark method for delayed decoration"
    clsdict = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
    clsdict.setdefault("decorated", {})[funcname] = decorators


class MetaDecorate(type):
    "Enables delayed decoration and annotation of methods"
    def __new__(klass, name, bases, _dict):
        if "annotated" in _dict:
            for method, attrs in _dict["annotated"].iteritems():
                delayed_annotate(_dict[method], **attrs)
            del _dict["annotated"]
        if "decorated" in _dict:
            for method, decorators in _dict["decorated"].iteritems():
                _dict[method] = delayed_decorate(_dict[method], *decorators)
            del _dict["decorated"]
        return type.__new__(klass, name, bases, _dict)

class Decorate(object):
    __metaclass__ = MetaDecorate

class C(Decorate):
    "Example class"

    a = "A"

    # You can annotate and decorate a method before it has been defined.

    annotate("f", author="Sean Ross", version="0.9.1", deprecated=True)
    decorate("f", classmethod)
    def f(klass):
        return klass.a


    decorate("g", staticmethod)
    def g():
        return "G"

print "C.f.author =", C.f.author
print "C.f.version =", C.f.version
print "C.f() =>", C.f()
print "C.g() =>", C.g()



""" OUTPUT:
C.f.author = Sean Ross
C.f.version = 0.9.1
C.f() => A
C.g() => G
"""


Neat.




From video at esfera.cl  Mon Mar 15 19:15:48 2004
From: video at esfera.cl (Cristian Hasbun from Chile)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 16:15:48 -0800
Subject: Another gen_py coclass_interfaces COM problem
Message-ID: <d4948d36.0403151615.229d6490@posting.google.com>

I need a win32com guru please...

i'm not python expert, but i understand mi trouble...

Requirements:
 Hook EyesWeb 3.2.0 (http://www.eyesweb.org) COM Module with Python
2.0.1
 i used win32com libraries and generate an early binding for module
(using prog_id)

the problem is the file generated has a Class EyeswebSystem that is a
CoClassBaseClass with coclass_interfaces Like IEywApplication that is
a DispatchBaseClass...

after reading other post with similar problem i saw that the other
problems are about coclass_interfaces with objects DispatchBaseClass
only...

i try 

"""
import win32com.client
Eyes=win32com.client.Dispatch('Eyesweb.Remotesystem')
App=win32com.client.Dispatch(Eyes,resultCLSID='{clsid}')
"""

an have more accurate result

"""
>>> Eyes
<COMObject Eyesweb.Remotesystem>
>>> App
<win32com.gen_py.EyesWeb System.IEywApplication instance at
0x19740672>
"""

but i can't reach "EyesWeb System.IEywApplication.Methods()" yet

with diferents try and error, i get com_errors like:
'the server threw an exception'
'invalid access to memory location'

here is a link of my gen_py generated file, easy for understand class
structure of the module with a browse class

http://www.kitesurf.cl/flash/0971C42C-F8CA-45F1-BC6B-A55F23EE2A40x0x1x0.py

Sorry my English... Mark Hammond if are you out there give me some
light


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 13:44:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:44:26 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403270409.7252150a@posting.google.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<c429js$2ddf7r$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<95aa1afa.0403270409.7252150a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16485.52106.497157.93775@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michele> It makes no sense to say "look, Python was a beatiful and
    Michele> simple language until a couple of years ago: now they have
    Michele> added metaclasses and it has become a mess, I must switch to
    Michele> something simpler". All the code you wrote before metaclasses
    Michele> is still clean, simple and still works!

Step 1.  Admit you have a problem.

Hello, my name is Skip and I am metaclass-unaware.  I've been programming in
Python for about ten years and I have yet to write a metaclass.  At first I
thought it was just that metaclasses were new to the language, but now as
more and more people use them and proclaim their widespread benefits, I have
come to realize that through years of abuse my brain has become addicted to
classic classes.

what-was-step-2-again?-ly, y'rs,

Skip



From tmohr at s.netic.de  Tue Mar  9 23:54:55 2004
From: tmohr at s.netic.de (Torsten Mohr)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:54:55 +0100
Subject: wrapping C++, how to wrap an object?
References: <c2equb$4la$2@schleim.qwe.de>
	<404aff25$0$3954$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<c2i7le$4nl$1@schleim.qwe.de>
	<mailman.131.1078776233.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2m72v$50m$1@schleim.qwe.de>

Hi,

>> Can i somehow wrap a C++ object in a python data type
>> just without any additional libraries?
> 
> Is PyCObject what you need? Depends on what you mean by 'wrap'...

hmm, looks good, i think i'll try an example code on that one.


Thanks,
Torsten.



From John.Marshall at ec.gc.ca  Wed Mar 17 15:26:49 2004
From: John.Marshall at ec.gc.ca (John Marshall)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 20:26:49 +0000
Subject: uid_t, gid_t issue in python tests?
Message-ID: <1079555209.17578.44.camel@mango.cmc.ec.gc.ca>

Hi,

While doing the python tests under AIX,
I noticed that although AIX uses:
    typedef uint_t uid_t;
    typedef uint_t gid_t;

the actual python code expects:
    int uid;
    int gid;

For example, in the grpmodule.c:
-----
static PyObject *
grp_getgrgid(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    int gid;
    struct group *p;
    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i:getgrgid", &gid))
        return NULL;
    if ((p = getgrgid(gid)) == NULL) {
        PyErr_SetString(PyExc_KeyError, "getgrgid(): gid not found");
        return NULL;
    }
    return mkgrent(p);
}
-----

Shouldn't this code expect unsigned int, one way
or another (as unsigned int, uid_t, gid_t, ...)?

Thanks,
John




From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 11:36:02 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 08:36:02 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message news:<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004 at ra.nrl.navy.mil>...
> In article <c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548 at posting.google.com>,
>  jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1) wrote:
> 
> > "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote in message 
> > news:<UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> > > (untested examples in C++)
> > > 
> > > (1) deeply nested loops
> > > 
> > > for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> > > for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> > > for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
> > >     if (/* some test */) goto END;
> > > 
> > > END: /* continue */;
> > > 
> > > and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> > > 
> > > BEGIN:
> > > for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
> > >     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;
> > > 
> > > What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
> > > 'goto' command?
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > 
> > Step away from the computer slowly . . .
> > 
> > There is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to use GOTO in any modern
> > language, ESPECIALLY Python, EVER!
> > 
> > No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.
> 
> 
> Bull.  I've used goto's in similar cases as those presented.  I have 
> found that in the right cases they are quite readable.  Never had a 
> problem with them when used like this.
> 
> So you didn't answer the question, how would you do this clearly in 
> Python?
> 

same way you would do it in any other OBJECT ORIENTED language. Use
the appropriate pattern.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Mar 25 15:14:36 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:14:36 GMT
Subject: [Way OT] Condorcet vs. IRV (was [Slightly OT] Re: Voting)
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc66do0.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet at verizon.net>, Eric wrote:
> Yes, I understand this is the claim that some IRV proponents would make.
> However, no such definitive statement can honestly be asserted based on
> those ballots. With most (if not all) ranked ballot methods (including
> Condorcet and IRV), if a voter truly does not want a Candidate to win,
> the way the indicate that is by leaving that Candidate unranked.
> 
> In this case, the A & B voters did not leave C unranked. Both groups
> clearly stated that they preferred C to their primary opponent.
> 
> What we do not know, because neither IRV nor Condorcet collects the
> strength of the preference (there are inherent problems with doing such
> a thing which is beyond the scope of this message), is how strong the
> preference is for the A & B voters for C rather then their primary
> opponent.

Well, not too much beyond: the inherent problem that I know is that
there's no incentive to put anything other than 100 or 0 to maximize the
strength of their vote.  (After all, if you prefer A to C by 100 to 99,
but putting that you prefer it by 100 to 1 will get A elected, why not
do it?  Lack of perfect information makes this kind of strategic voting
dangerous, but that doesn't mean people won't try it, and that
destabilizes elections.)

> For example, it could be that:
> (The numbers in parenthesis indicate the strength of how much the
> candidates are liked on a linear 0 - 100 scale)
> 
> 49 A(100) > C(99) > B(0)
> 48 B(100) > C(99) > A(0)
> 3: C(100)
> 
> Should this be true, one would be hard pressed to develop a credible and
> compelling argument that C should not be the winner.
> 
> However, it is also possible that:
> 
> 49 A(100) > C(1) > B(0)
> 48 B(100) > C(1) > A(0)
> 3: C(100)
> 
> In which case, an argument can be made that C should not be the winner.
> 
> But, like I stated, neither IRV nor Condorcet collect such information,
> so, what is the fairest way to deal with this?

One interesting approach was brought up on the elections list just
before I stopped reading it.  (Wait, don't I recognize your name from
there?  You'd be more familiar with it than I, but I'll bring it up
anyway, on the assumption that there are other interested readers out
there.)

Add an implicit "none" candidate to separate rankings of actual
preferences from least of the evils.  Your first case becomes "A > C >
none > B", and the second (probably) "A > none > C > B".  So in the
latter case, the voter is saying that they prefer C to B, but only if
forced to choose between them due to overwhelming preference by the rest
of the electorate.

I'd be grateful if you can point me to a thorough analysis of this idea,
since it sounds reasonable to me but I don't really have the background
to evaluate it.

> With IRV, if your top choice is eliminated, your second choice is
> automatically promoted to a strength of 100, regardless of how you
> actually feel about that candidate. For example, say a voter had voted
> (I've included theoretical preference strengths):

Ah, thanks for pointing that out.  I knew it sounded a little fishy.

(So much nicer to have nobody from the other side cluttering up the
debate...)

Joe


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 10:46:48 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:46:48 +0100
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
	<2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c27ivn$3ao$1@swifty.westend.com>

David MacQuigg schrieb:
> Ruby also allows you to redefine its built-in classes, so if you need
> that level of flexibility, this language may be a better choice.

Martin's redefined class does what he wants but sys.stdout is an
instance of file. All he has to do is close the predefined stdout
and open it again:

sys.stdout.close()
sys.stdout = MultiArgWriteFile('/dev/tty', 'a')

or whereever he wants sys.stdout to point to. Of course switching
the language on each problem is also an option. ;-)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From nonebye-mail  Sun Mar  7 05:53:23 2004
From: nonebye-mail (Mike Thompson)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:53:23 +1100
Subject: wrapping C++, how to wrap an object?
References: <c2equb$4la$2@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <404aff25$0$3954$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>


"Torsten Mohr" <tmohr at s.netic.de> wrote in message
news:c2equb$4la$2 at schleim.qwe.de...
> Hi,
>
> i just read everything that i found for writing modules
> and interfacing to C/C++.
>
> I'd like to write some wrapper code for some C++ class.
> For this i want to store an object of this class in
> Python somehow.
>
> how can i store a memory region (the object) in a Python
> data type?
>
>

AFAIK, you have 2 mainstream choices for wrapping C++:
     1.  Boost.Python - http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/
     2.  SWIG - http://www.swig.org/

I'm also aware of:
     3.  SIP - http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/docs/sipref.html

I use Boost.Python and have found it to be excellent.

--
Mike




From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  2 18:25:35 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:25:35 GMT
Subject: OT: Re: Extreme Newbie, HELP! :)
References: <7dqdnck-z6KnNtnd4p2dnA@hereintown.net>
Message-ID: <PJ81c.28564$TF2.4659@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Yo 43fan, long time.
bobb from rasn.
Poking 'round here now adays... no time for the lake.
Sorry not much help for your problem, but it's good to here from ya, just
the same.

bobb

"43fan" <sleap at pennswoods.net> wrote in message
news:7dqdnck-z6KnNtnd4p2dnA at hereintown.net...
> Not only a newbie, but an extreme newbie here, and at this point, really
> only have one application that I need to use Python for.  This is in
> Paintshop Pro, version 8.
>
> Where I work, we regularly take photos of material as we're progressing
> through a job. These photos are named(and stored) according to a specific
> naming process.  What happens now is, one person takes the photos and
> downloads the images to a folder, usually having to rotate the image 90deg
> one way or the other.   Then, another person renames the files and moves
> them to the appropriate folder.
>
> Since the name of the file(and actually the folder it's to be located in)
> follows a strict set of rules, the person that's doing the dowloading
could
> save them in the proper place, with the proper name.  However, this could
be
> one of several people, and I'd like to be able to automate the process.
>
> If there's a way that I can ask the user a series of approx. 4 questions,
I
> can determine the location the file should be in, and the name it should
be,
> based on the answers to those questions.  That's basically all I want to
do.
> :)  Have them open the downloaded file in PSP 8(or an earlier version if
it
> supports it), run the script which would ask the series of questions, then
> save the file in the appropriate folder, with the appropriate name.
>
> Any help????
>
> Thanks!
> Shawn
> PS - please excuse the nick, I post in a racing ng as well. :)
>
>
> --
> Join the newest in Fantasy Sports.
>
> http://www.6FantasySports.com
> (this site supports the Victory Junction Gang Camp with a portion of all
> proceeds)
>
>




From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Wed Mar 24 22:56:55 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:56:55 -0500
Subject: wxNotebook
In-Reply-To: <mailman.366.1080158717.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.366.1080158717.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YLs8c.19395$A_2.1136153@news20.bellglobal.com>

Gandalf wrote:


> p.s.: I sent this originally to the wxpython-users list but it never 
> arrived.
> 
> 

Just in case, did you post it through news.gmane?  If so you have to use 
a real email address and the first time you post you will have to 
register yourself to gmane. See http://gmane.org/.

Pierre



From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar  8 07:56:19 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 07:56:19 -0500
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>
	<Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <m2y8qbcxak.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On 8 Mar 2004 08:31:48 GMT,
Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> wrote:


> def show(*args, **kw):
>         separator = kw.get('separator', ' ')
>         trailer = kw.get('trailer', '\n')
>         to = kw.get('to', sys.stdout)
>         for keyword in kw:
>             if not keyword in ('separator', 'trailer', 'to'):
>                 raise TypeError(
> 'show() got an unexpected keyword argument' + keyword)
>         to.write(separator.join([ str(arg) for arg in args]))
>         to.write(trailer)
>         if len(args)==1:
>             return args[0]
>         else:
>             return args

List comprehensions are shiny and new and theoretically sound, and
definitely make things more clearer (sic) in plenty of cases, but
this one seems gratuitous to this old-timer.  What about:

    to.write( separator.join( map( str, args ) ) )

I'm half-tempted to suggest that there be a string.join_as_strings
method (or something with a more concise name) like this:

    class string:
        # other stuff elided to conserve bandwidth
        def join_as_strings( self, list_of_objects ):
            self.join( map( str, list_of_objects ) )

but it's (obviously) easy enough to create as necessary, even as a
(gasp!) stand-alone function:

    def join_as_strings( list_of_objects, separator = ' ' ):
        separator.join( map( str, list_of_objects ) )

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From alain.dimier at andra.fr  Fri Mar  5 05:31:11 2004
From: alain.dimier at andra.fr (dimier)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 02:31:11 -0800
Subject: extending python
Message-ID: <10895173.0403050231.35c977ef@posting.google.com>

I have created a module in python based on a C program and it works
fine. I created it without using swig.
I tried to create a class to go to //isation and ran in problems. I
created the class, but calling the associated methods,as an example, I
get the following message:

RuntimeError: Error in define_verbose

Notice thar define_verbose has arguments.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?


From theller at python.net  Fri Mar  5 18:55:44 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:55:44 +0100
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
Message-ID: <brnalugv.fsf@python.net>

Chad Haynes <haynesc at rockefeller.edu> writes:

> Hello,
>
> I have a wxPython application that I want to create an executable
> from. Using py2exe produces a program that works very well, but the
> appearance is slightly different than when it was run from the command
> line.  The py2exe version is a little more bland.  Here are links to
> some screenshots:
>
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/dos.jpg
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/py2exe.jpg
>
> I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

You have to provide a manifest file.  This can be a separate file named
<yourapp>.exe.manifest, but it can also be compiled as a resource into
the exe file itself.  The py2exe\samples\advanced directory demontrates
how to do this.

Thomas




From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Mon Mar 15 21:02:30 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:02:30 GMT
Subject: xreadlines() being used with file.tell() and  file.seek()
References: <c34vpp$7s3$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <Wet5c.812077$X%5.374388@pd7tw2no>

maybe you could re-post your code with standard indenting of 4 or 8
characters.   I have trouble telling where I am with the single-character
indenting you are using. 

but, a few questions:

Do you need to read in the entire file, or just certain lines?
Do you always know the pattern in advance? i.e. will it always be every 5th
line?  If so, you may not need two loops.  

If you want to read every line but only split out every nth line, you could
use integer div operator so that when you get to line no. count / n = 0,
you print .

cheers
Stewart




From rwest004 at opti.cgi.net  Wed Mar 10 00:41:30 2004
From: rwest004 at opti.cgi.net (Richard West)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:41:30 -0600
Subject: Unicode and rdf
Message-ID: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>



I'm trying to parse the rdf dumps from dmoz.org (Open Directory
Project) and am having great difficulty just getting Python to read
the files.  The files are RDF in UTF-8 encoding according to the
dmoz.org web site, but I get the following error:

UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
52376-52378: invalid data

Here's a sample of code that will reproduce the problem:


import sys
import codecs
from xml.sax import make_parser, handler

def main():
    f = codecs.open(sys.argv[1], 'r', 'utf-8')
    parser = make_parser()
    parser.setContentHandler(dmoz())
    parser.parse(f)

class dmoz(handler.ContentHandler):
    def startElement(self, name, attrs):
        print('%s' % name)

if(__name__=='__main__'):
    main()


I'm working with the dump from February 23rd, 2004.  On the dmoz.org
web site news pertaining to the rdf dumps, there is an entry from
March 3rd, 2003 which states that they are filtering the data to
"prevent UTF-8 and XML character encoding problems".  So I am assuming
that the UTF-8 files I have are valid.  I run into the problem with
both the structure.rdf.u8 file and the content.rdf.u8 file.

What am I doing wrong?


-Richard


dmoz.org rdf dumps: http://rdf.dmoz.org/

dmoz.org rdf news: http://rdf.dmoz.org/rdf/Changes.html





From kbk at shore.net  Sat Mar 20 16:44:13 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:44:13 GMT
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<c3ht8l$tmh$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <873c83tcr6.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:

> Unique? Of course not. FreeBSD does so. I'll be very surprised if NetBSD
> doesn't.

AFAIK, FreeBSD doesn't actually produce a package file.  But you are
correct, it does make an entry into the database.

-- 
KBK


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Mon Mar 29 09:56:45 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:56:45 +0200
Subject: Front end python backend php
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F0068A1612@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Take a look at XML/RPC (www.xmlrpc.com). If you publish the python backend
over XML/RPC, you can call it directly from PHP.

cheers,


pieter

Come and visit us at Drupa!
Hall 4 Stand B10

Creo EMEA S.A.
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of talktojamesblair at yahoo.com
Sent: 29 March 2004 16:55
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Front end python backend php

Hi 
I have a front end developed in PHP
Now I want to develop the backeend(database connection & stuff) in
python.
How can I call a python module from php on submitting my page??
Also how can i output the values return by python module on gui which
is developed in PHP ??
Thanks
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  1 20:33:13 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:33:13 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <uqf740lla39p50hnptvsedsms3r3ik9d2b@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:42:21 GMT, "Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com>
wrote:

>Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> The right thing to do (if it were to happen at all) is to make
>> fileobject.softspace "sticky" under some condition, perhaps after a
>> call to fileobject.SetSoftSpace(False) (which doesn't currently
>> exist).
>
>The right thing to do is to put make stdout a builtin and deprecate the
>print statement.  The "smart" behavior of the print statement causes more
>trouble than it's worth.  I admit that I use the print statement myself
>occasionally, but only because 'sys.stdout.write' is too long to type all
>the time, and never with more than one argument.

IMO, this is a job for bound methods...

import sys
stdwrite   = sys.stdout.write
stdwriteln = sys.stdout.writelines

stdwriteln (["Hello ", "world\n"])


Of course, everyone wants something slightly different from their
default I/O stuff. One mans useful shortcut is another mans irritant
that he's constantly having to work around.


A simple formatting utility class is sometimes useful. After all,
formatting isn't just about where the spaces are. Word-wrapping,
indentation levels for paragraphs, bullet points and more can all make
life easy when generating complex console output. I even once
supported simple tables in a text mode output formatter, though not in
Python.

I just hacked the following together, if anyone is interested - it
definitely is not ready for real use, but it might be a useful start
for someone. The constructor optionally takes a callable object, used
to write each line, and a line length. The 'begin' and 'end' methods
do indented blocks, bullets etc. The main output methods are 'write',
'writeall' and 'writeln'.

'writeall' takes a single list parameter, converts every item in the
list using the 'str' function, and outputs each in turn.

'write' uses multiple parameters instead of a single list parameter.

'writeln' is like 'write', but ends the paragraph automatically. I'm
not sure where I got the 'ln' suffix from - either Pascal or Modula 2,
probably. Probably a bad name here, but what the hell.

'para' ends the current paragraph without writing more text.

'begin' normally takes a single string with the indent spaces and
possibly the bullet character. You might use "  " for a simple indent,
for instance, or "  * " for a bullet point. It can make an all-space
version for follow-on lines itself, but if you want something
different you can override it.

#
#  Simple text-mode output formatter
#

import sys
import string

class Formatter :
  target     = sys.stdout.write
  indent     = ""
  nxtindent  = ""
  curindent  = None
  indentstk  = []
  width      = 80
  pending    = ""
  separator  = ""
  terminator = "\n"

  def __init__ (self,
                target = sys.stdout.write,
                width  = 80               ) :
    self.target = target
    self.width  = width

  def begin (self, indent="  ", nxtindent=None) :
    self.para ()
    self.indentstk.append ((self.indent, self.nxtindent))
    self.indent = self.nxtindent + indent

    if nxtindent == None :
      self.nxtindent += " " * len (indent)
    else :
      self.nxtindent += nxtindent

  def end (self) :
    self.para ()
    self.indent    = self.indentstk [-1] [0]
    self.nxtindent = self.indentstk [-1] [1]
    self.indentstk = self.indentstk [:-1]

  def set_modifiers (self, separator = None, terminator = None) :
    if separator != None :
      self.separator = seperator

    if terminator != None :
      self.terminator = terminator

  def write (self, *strings) :
    self.writeall (strings)

  def writeall (self, strings) :
    t1 = string.join ([str (i) for i in strings], self.separator)
    
    i = t1.find ("\n")

    while i >= 0 :
      self.pending += t1 [:i]
      t1 = t1 [i+1:]
      self.flush (True)
      self.target ("\n")
      i = t1.find ("\n")

    self.pending += t1
    self.flush (False)

  def writeln (self, *strings) :
    t1 = string.join ([str (i) for i in strings], self.separator) +
self.terminator
    
    i = t1.find ("\n")

    while i >= 0 :
      self.pending += t1 [:i]
      t1 = t1 [i+1:]
      self.flush (True)
      self.target ("\n")
      i = t1.find ("\n")

    self.pending += t1
    self.flush (False)

  def para (self) :
    if self.pending != "" :
      self.flush (True)
      self.target ("\n")

  def flush (self, force) :
    if self.pending != "" :
      if self.curindent == None :
        self.curindent = self.indent
    
      xwidth = self.width - len (self.indent)
    
      while len(self.pending) >= xwidth :
        i = xwidth - 1
        while (i > 1) and (self.pending [i] != ' ') :
          i -= 1
        self.target (self.curindent+string.rstrip (self.pending
[:i])+"\n")
        self.curindent = self.nxtindent
        self.pending=string.lstrip (self.pending [i:])
  
      if force and (len (self.pending) > 0) :
        self.target (self.curindent+string.rstrip (self.pending)+"\n")
        self.curindent = None
        self.pending=""



-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 14 03:27:00 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:27:00 +0100
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
References: <mailman.3.1079209960.688.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3150l$hua$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> Kenneth McDonald wrote:
>> 
>> > Now that I'm back to Python and all the new (to me) cool features,
>> > I find I'm using properties a lot, i.e. I'm defining:
>> > 
>> > foo = property(fset=..., fget=...)
>> > 
>> > for a number of properties, in many of my classes. I'm not using
>> > them for anything performance critical yet, but could see myself
>> > doing so in the future. Can anyone comment on the performance
>> > costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?
>> 
>> It seems I'm becoming obsessed with timeit.py :-)
> 
> ISTR Alex Martelli went through such a phase.. ;)
> 
>> <property.py>
>> class Test(object):
>>     def getvalue(self):
>>         return self._value
>>     value = property(getvalue)
>> 
>> t = Test()
>> t._value = 123
>> </property.py>
>> 
>> $ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t._value"
>> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.207 usec per loop
>> $ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t.getvalue()"
>> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.918 usec per loop
>> $ timeit.py -s"from property import t" "t.value"
>> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.03 usec per loop
>> 
>> Roughly factor five, most of the time being consumed by the
>> implied function call.
> 
> I've always used "property" as sugar for when I would otherwise have
> overriden __getattr(ibute)__, in which case the performance is not that
> different.

I can think of other patterns (all untested code). Let's pretend area
calculation were time-costly. Then

class Square:
    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y
        self.area = x*y
    setExtent = __init__

should be less efficient than 

class LazySquare(object):
    # probably bad, don't do it 
    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

    def getarea(self):
        try:
            return self._area
        except Attribute:
            self._area = self.x * self.y
        return self._area
    area = property(getarea)

    def setExtent(self, x, y):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y
        try:
            del self._area
        except AttributeError:
            pass

most of the time. At present all your gains may be lost by the repeated
overhead of the getarea() calls. Another one:

class A(object):
    # probably bad, don't do it
    def getValue(self):
        return self._value
    def setValue(self, newValue):
        if complicatedValidityCheck(newValue):
            self._value = newValue
        else:
            raise ValueError
    value = property(getValue, setValue)

Here bothering client code with explicit setter calls would give significant
speed gains if write access is rare compared with reading.

I think finding a way for properties to access attributes without wrapping
them into a function call would be worth the effort. The penalty for clean
interfaces should be as low as possible.

Peter


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Mar  5 10:12:58 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:12:58 -0500
Subject: Module dependencies
Message-ID: <UN02c.1359$kc2.21736@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Hi everyone,
   I was wondering, it there any common application to show direct and 
indirect dependencies of a module?  Something with html output like pydoc?
Thx and Regards,
Nicolas


From jayoconnor at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 24 07:35:24 2004
From: jayoconnor at earthlink.net (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:35:24 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org><tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ggf8c.36275$%06.28584@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Cameron Laird wrote:

 > If you have a big job, you *particularly* need to look at Python (or Erlang,
> or Eiffel, or ...)

I like Python but for big jobs I really prefer Smalltalk.   It's gets better 
runtime performance for most big apps, especially involving complicated object 
models in memory, and the development environments are extremely productive.

Take care,
Jay



From anon at anon.net  Fri Mar  5 16:20:10 2004
From: anon at anon.net (anon)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:20:10 -0800
Subject: Raw write/read file descriptor
Message-ID: <050320041320106615%anon@anon.net>

Is there an interface for read/writing raw bytes to/from a file?


From stefano at stefanomasini.com  Mon Mar  8 09:05:09 2004
From: stefano at stefanomasini.com (Stefano Masini)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 06:05:09 -0800
Subject: win32com.client.Dispatch returns CLSID different than makepy
References: <80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951@posting.google.com>
	<Gen2c.16985$JZ6.592577@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <80ef91b8.0403080605.4056b891@posting.google.com>

Hi Markus, thanks for your help.

I dug deeper into the makepy/gencache stuff and I found a way
to solve my problem. I think it may apply to yours as well.
I'm gonna describe the details of what I learned, hoping to be helpful
and not too much boring.

Basically I compared my application (Adobe InDesign) with one that is
working, Microsoft Word. For the former, Dispatch only returns dumb
objects, while for the latter, it correctly returns instances of the
makepy generated code.

I found the ultimate responsible for this behaviour is makepy itself.

When __WrapDispatch is called, the gencache module checks into a 
dictionary called clsidToTypelib (defined as global) to find the
required CLSID. Of course in the case of Adobe InDesign, the required
CLSID is not there, so gencache returns None, and __WrapDispatch falls
back to returning dynamic dumb objects.

clsidToTypelib is stored as a pickled file called 'dicts.dat' in the
directory 'gen_py', together with the makepy generated files. And it
is updated/managed by makepy itself.

makepy fills up this dictionary whenever a new module is compiled and
it does so by looking into a few dictionaries that are defined inside
the module itself. More specifically these are: CLSIDToClassMap,
CLSIDToPackageMap, VTablesToPackageMap and VTablesToClassMap.

The first one is broken in the case of Adobe InDesign. It only
contains one CLSID, when it should instead contain one CLSID for each
class defined in the InDesign API.

I checked the code responsible for the creation of this dictionary, and
it is the module genpy.py around line 850 (for python 2.3), pasted
here:

print 'CLSIDToClassMap = {'
for item in oleItems.values():
  if item is not None and item.bWritten and item.bIsDispatch:
    print "\t'%s' : %s," % (str(item.clsid), item.python_name)
print '}'

The for loop goes through the keys of the dictionary oleItems, and
only those that satisfy some conditions are printed in the dictionary
(the generated code is captured on stdout here).
Through some convenience prints, I found out that the CLSIDs needed by
my application are indeed present in oleItems, but for some reason the
boolean value item.bIsDispatch is set to False, and the if condition
fails.

I did not investigate further. I don't know how the oleItems
dictionary is built, nor what the bIsDispatch flag means exactly.
But I tried hacking the code and placing a crude 
item.bIsDispatch = True
just before the if statement, and it WORKS!

Just by adding this line genpy was able to produce a full blown
dictionary and now all the required CLSID's get registered. When I
call Dispatch now I do obtain the static code, and not the dumb object
anymore.

Only problem is: I don't fully understand why this works, and most
importantly, why that flag was not set to begin with. Is it a problem
in the implementation of the COM api by the Adobe guys, or is it a bug
in the python com implementation?

Btw, I don't think this hack is required on every machine that my
application is gonna be working on. I think it should be possible to
rename the generated code to something more decent and include it in
the source code of my application. This way I should be able to work
with a clean python installation.

Well, I hope this helps, and thank you again for the advice.

If anybody else knows this stuff, I would appreciate any insight.

- stefano


Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Gen2c.16985$JZ6.592577 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> This sounds like a problem I ran into that I was never able to figure
> out either.  Mark Hammond says there is nothing that can be done about
> it, but if you jump through some manual hoops you may be able to get it
> to work.
> 
> For more info, Google for "solidworks python win32com" in the Google
> "groups", and click the first hit you get.  Or, if you don't mind long 
> URL's:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=solidworks+python+win32com&sa=N&tab=wg
> 
> HTH.
> Markus
>


From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Mar 26 06:15:20 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:15:20 +0000
Subject: [Zope] Zope + Python thread safety
In-Reply-To: <8954295963.20040326090742@anonym.hu>
References: <8954295963.20040326090742@anonym.hu>
Message-ID: <406410C8.3030304@simplistix.co.uk>

fowlertrainer at anonym.hu wrote:

> Question: the python variable setting/checking is thread-safe ?

Python has Lock objects just like Delphi and C, I'd wrap your setting/checking 
code in the same way as you would for Delphi/C...

> I want to set the parameters of Product in only once, but because the
> Zope is threaded app, I must thinking in thread-safe programming methods.

Indeed, Zope and ZODb usually take care of all of this for you, but you're doing 
something out of the ordinary, so need to worry aboutit ...

> Question1:
>   The code above is thread safe ? (I think, it is not)

No.

> Question2:
>   If it is not thread safe, how to set this variable without global
>   lock/mutex object ?

You need to put a lock around those bits of code.

> Question3:
>   Or how to I set this object's parameters as property, in Designer
>   interface of Zope ?

I'd just have them as Zope Properties on your container object, then you don't 
need to worry about the threading.

context.manage_addProperty('prop name','value','string')

...for example.

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk




From NAVMSE-DNS2 at misiones.gov.ar  Wed Mar 24 08:28:27 2004
From: NAVMSE-DNS2 at misiones.gov.ar (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-DNS2)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:28:27 -0300
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detecto un virus en un mensje que Ud. envio.  el
	archivo adjunto enviado fue borrado.
Message-ID: <7CFBF786B691FD49AECEB041DFFCAFB109CA18@DNS2>

Destinatario:  85-Contadur?a Gral.\Inbox
Asunto:  Re: Your bill
Uno o mas archivos enviados fueron borrados.
  Attachment your_bill.pif was Deleted for the following reasons:
    Virus W32.Netsky.D at mm was found.
-------------- next part --------------
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From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 10 05:11:10 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:11:10 +0100
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<gljs40pbgso7373o6ahv578tqkf8hpalqm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <404ee9ec$0$140$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:

>I once had a boss who wrote a 70-page program in BASIC.  After a few
>weeks, he gave up and expected me to fix it.  After seeing that the
>whole thing was one module, laced with GOTO's, I told him that I could
>re-write the whole thing in less time than it would take to debug his
>program.  He did not want to hear that.  He also thought it would take
>too much time to explain to me what the program was supposed to do!

You are not alone. I once had a boss who programmed a database in
Pascal using doubly linked lists and pointers. Another programmer had
just started learning to program for a month and designed a GUI using
Delphi. The problem was that somehow he managed to hardcode the
positions of the widgets so that they were not resizable or movable
and since he developed them on a bigger monitor they didn't appear on
the visible parts of my screen. 

I was asked to link the database to the GUI within two weeks. Probably
I could have done it if allowed to use the structures for databases
and GUI interface that Delphi comes with out of the box.

We were all using different incompatible versions of Delphi and
communicated via incompatible telephone line interfaces. So all data
was garbled everytime it was transmitted, independently from the
version incompatibilities. To finish it off, after a week a
coordinator was assigned to the project who didn't know anything about
programming at all.

I'm still recovering from that. However, since it was one of the
factors that tipped the balance towards Python for me, I guess I was
lucky after all.

Anton


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 21:28:11 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:28:11 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <tdk1j1-ev9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3ki5j$28tkdb$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tdk1j1-ev9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3lik9$28qgsp$2@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roger Binns wrote:

> Nope.  They are an implementation specific thing.  The interpretter
> puts version and other information in them, and regenerates them
> on the fly.  
 >
 > There is nothing wrong with an interpretter deciding
 > to regenerate them every single day in a different format, or
 > based on the moon phase, or your login id or anything else.

So we can't even count on the fact that Python 2.2 running under Windows
on an Athlon will generate a .pyc file that's identical with that
generated by the exact same version (2.2) of the interpreter running
under Linux on, say, a Pentium III, and further, is not even *guaranteed*
to run on it?!?

This does not seem to fit in with what I've been reading... it would
be a lot more logical (and convenient) if we can count on .pyc portability
across different _patch versions_ (.x.y) of the same minor version (.x)
of CPython on whatever platform it is running on, and I believe that
Python's contributors would make an effort to ensure that this is the case.



From kmp at atrium.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 09:56:27 2004
From: kmp at atrium.fsnet.co.uk (Kenneth Payne)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:56:27 +0000
Subject: wxWindows Themes
Message-ID: <c2n9op$28v$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

I'm just experimenting with wxPython coding with wxWindows on SuSE 9.0. 
However, my application looks awful. And it's not my code - the demo apps 
look awful too. 

The font is ugly (every font you pick looks just the same) and the general 
look and feel is terrible. 

My desktop is KDE so I do not have Gnome installed, but I run gtk-based apps 
like Gimp and Eclipse and they look fine. ?

Since wxWindows on Linux is based on gtk, I assume this is because my gtk 
installation isn't properly themed or set up. 

So I installed a set of gtk themes. I then found through a little bit of
googling a program called gtk-theme-switch. This excellent program allows
you to preview and apply gtk themes. The "preview" works great - I can see
all the cool themes I've got installed and they look super. Howeever, the
"apply" doesn't seem to work because my wxWindow app still sticks to some
kind of ugly default theme and so does wxglade and the demo programs and
even gtk-theme-switch itself. 

Then I found there was a function call wxWindow::SetThemeEnabled(boolean). I
tried this in my program but it made no difference.

Does anyone know how I get my python wxWindows app themed or at least
looking as good as Gimp or Eclipse? 

Best wishes

- Ken


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 08:41:10 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 14:41:10 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

> Premshree Pillai wrote:
> > Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> > strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily bound
> > to a particular type.
> 
> Python 1.5.2 (#1, Jan 31 2003, 11:01:49)  [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat
> Linux 7.2 2 on linux-i386
> 
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>  >>> a = 1
>  >>> a
> 1
>  >>> a = "fred"
>  >>> a
> 'fred'
>  >>> a = open
>  >>> a
> <built-in function open>
>  >>>
> 
> So here was have a variable 'a'. In the first instance I set it to a
> number. Then I set it to a string. Now in a strongly typed language,

Firstly, you are confusing static (as opposed to dynamic) type
systems, with strong (as opposed to weak) type systems.

The two concepts are completely orthogonal to eachother.

(Besides, "strong typing" and "weak typing" are not really
well-defined concepts.)

> such as C or C++, would be screaming that "fred" was not an integer.

Secondly, you appear to be confusing C and C++ with strongly typed
languages. A common mistake :-)

> Could you please clarify how this consitutes Python being 'strongly typed'?

Python is strongly typed because:

- lots of type checking is done
- few implicit type conversions are done.
- No operations which are inappropriate to the object(s) in question
  are allowed.

Try this ...

    #include <iostream>
    
    void foo() {}
    
    int main() {
    
    float fs[128];
    
    char c = 'a';
    // add integer to character
    c = c + 1;
    // Use a character to subscript an array
    std::cout << fs[c] << std::endl;
    // Out of bounds array access
    std::cout << fs[200] << std::endl;
  
    int* ip;
    ip = (int*)(void*)(&foo);
    // Add an integer to a function
    std::cout << 3+(*ip) << std::endl;
  
    return 0;
    }

So, here we have four examples of weak typing in C++:

- adding integers to characters is allowed.
- subscripting arrays with characters is allowed
- accessing non-existent elements of an array is allowed
- adding functions to integers is allowed

Try as you will, Python would not allow you to do any of these things,
because it is _strongly typed_ with respect to these operations on
these types.

(Yes, this does show that static type systems are rather liable to be
inherently less strong that dynamic ones, because _no runtime type
checking_ is done at all; compile time is your last defence against
type errors. With dynamic typing, you still have the opportunity to do
strong type checking at runtime.)


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Mar  3 16:19:48 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 03 Mar 2004 16:19:48 -0500
Subject: Impersonation
References: <slrnc4ba2e.jbl.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>
Message-ID: <ubrnd7hmz.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Vedran Furac <vedranf at riteh.hr> writes:

> I would like to run a program as another user in win2k. I have runas
> utility but with this I need type password all the time. Using python and
> windows extensions it is posibile to write a program that will do this, here
> is a code:
> 
> handel=win32security.LogonUser('username','domain','pass',
> win32con.LOGON32_LOGON_INTERACTIVE,win32con.LOGON32_PROVIDER_DEFAULT)
> 
> win32security.ImpersonateLoggedOnUser(handel)
> 
> print "Started as: ", win32api.GetUserName()
> #this prints target username, impersonation successful  
> 
> os.execv(path, args)
> #runs program, not as target user 
> 
> #win32security.RevertToSelf()
> #handel.Close()
> 
> ..and this runs the program but not as a target user. Program is started just
> normal as it would be without impersonation. Any idea why?

It's probably the fact that os.execv is bubbling down into a normal
CreateProcess call at the win32 API level.  But if the calling process
is impersonating a user, CreateProcess uses the authentication token
for the calling process itself, and not the impersonation token.

There is a CreateProcessAsUser call that works just like
CreateProcess, but has an initial first parameter which is the user
token for the process (which is "handel" in your above code).  I don't
have any Python code handy (my current code for this is in C), but you
might try replacing the execv call with an equivalent call to
CreateProcessAsUser (it's wrapped in win32process) and see if it does
what you want.

-- David


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Mar 16 04:31:11 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:31:11 +0100
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4056c9c5$0$4143$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

rick_muller at yahoo.com (Rick Muller) wrote:

>5. Other ideas:
>   It is a sign of my own desperation that I'm even considering things
>   like writing a canvas widget that can draw balls and sticks, and
>   then just doing the matrix algebra in NumPy, rather than using
>   OpenGL. 

VPython [1] seems to combine all requirements, OpenGl and NumPy
integration, easy to install and use, and at least in my case it makes
one very enthusiastic about 3-d programming in Python. 

Anton

[1] http://www.vpython.org


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Fri Mar 12 09:50:33 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:50:33 GMT
Subject: 2D List comprehension & replace
References: <YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <edbbcf9aa02a7540c59532e3a249cdcf@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:13:28 -0600, "Larry Bates"
<lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:

>I've gone brain-dead trying to get this to work
>using list comprehensions.  I have a list of lists
>like the following:
>
>l=[[92.6, 0, 93.5],
>   [94.7, 95.6, 95.7],
>   [91.2, 92.1, 93.0]]
>
>what I want is a new list
>with the zero (0) replaced with None.
>
>I thought I would use the fact that the command:
>
>0 or None
>
>seems to return None.
>
>This procedural code does the trick, but I just
>know it can be done with a single list comprehension.
>
>tol=[]
>for a in l:
>    til=[]
>    for v in a:
>        if a != 0: til.append(v)
>        else:      til.append(None)
>
>    tol.append(til)
>
>l=tol
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Larry Bates
>

def NonifyNestedList(rows):
    return [[item or None for item in cols] for cols in rows]

    --dang


From kschnee at xepher.net  Mon Mar 22 14:50:50 2004
From: kschnee at xepher.net (upward_spiral2001)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:50:50 -0000
Subject: Need Help Using Py2Exe
Message-ID: <c3ng2q+3vit@eGroups.com>

Hi. I've got a neat artificial intelligence project I want to 
distribute as an EXE. I'm using Python, Pygame, and Numeric. My 
problem is: When I use py2exe, I'm told "The following modules 
appear to be missing: AppKit, Foundation, dotblas, objc." And then 
my EXE crashes with a "segmentation fault." I tried the command:

python setup.py py2exe --ignores [those modules]

It then compiles w/o complaint, but the EXE still crashes. The 
setup.py is very simple:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(console=["NissIslandDemo.py"])

What do I need to do to make my program into a working EXE?

Thanks for any help.




From colarte at telesat.com.co  Sat Mar 20 15:33:19 2004
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:33:19 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
Message-ID: <1079814799.405caa8f39053@ilpostino4.telesat.com.co>

>Date: 20 Mar 2004 11:05:11 -0800
>From: dontaskme at doityourself.com (Meno)
>Subject: Re: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
>To: python-list at python.org
>Message-ID: <9c2d8268.0403201105.1feebf1a at posting.google.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message
>news:<mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org>...
>> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some
>> and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language
>> similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  [...]

>Well on windows platforms, Python programs can be compiled to a binary
>form using py2exe (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)

And in linux/unix there is the freeze.py  utility...

Camilo Olarte





Telesat, m?s f?cil...m?s Internet.
http://www.telesat.com.co/



From shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 13 08:01:17 2004
From: shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com (Shalen chhabra)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:01:17 +0000
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different
 Filesinthe Directory
Message-ID: <LAW10-F60hODt9Cz93M000019e5@hotmail.com>

Thanks to all who responded: But my problem still remains unsolved:
I can do for sure this:

import os

for f in os.listdir('/path/to/dir'):
	<do stuff to f>


But lets pay attention to my original post:

I said I want to run a python program.

For example: If i want to run a python program like this:

instead of <do stuff to f>

python program.py file1

If I write this in place of <do stuff to f> it gives me a syntax error. How 
can I embed this information of running a python program over all the files, 
iteratively using a python script.

Got it?
Now please suggest if there is something in python for this?
Thanks
Shalen


>From: "Ivo" <Spam at ivonet.nl>
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Re: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different 
>Filesinthe Directory
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:33:13 +0100
>
>import glob,os
>filelist=glob.glob('/folder here/*') # retrieve your listing.
>for file in filelist:
>     if os.path.isfile(file):
>       <do your stuff here>
>--
>Cheerz,
>Ivo.
>http://IvoNet.nl
>
>
>============================
>"Shalen chhabra" <shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list at python.org...
> > Hey,
> >
> > Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the
>files
> > in the directory.
> > For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python
>program
> > against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python
>code
> > instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be
>cumbersome
> > giving the argv of each file every single time.
> >
> > This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a
> > flavour of python for this.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Shalen
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1!
> > (Limited-time Offer)
>http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech 
Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 11 09:50:26 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:50:26 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.230.1078936428.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfhdwv6285.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <edu050dc7ege3qnvuvh86et4p9de5fdua2@4ax.com>

On 11 Mar 2004 12:40:42 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>At least one language has conditions, rather than exceptions, where
>"error" is a subtype of "condition", and where it is quite normal to
>have conditions which are not errors.

To me, a condition is a boolean expression typically written in an if
or while statement.

An exception, on the other hand, is an exception. If you want 'error'
to be a subtype of 'exception' that's fine by me, as an error is
obviously a type of exceptional circumstance. In C++ (where I'm much
more likely to write code that uses exceptions for success) I have a
base class each for error and success exceptions. Actually, I usually
don't subclass the success one as the fact that it indicates success
is usually sufficient.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From autoresponder at web.de  Mon Mar  1 17:28:15 2004
From: autoresponder at web.de (WEB.DE Kundenverwaltung)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:28:15 +0100
Subject: Eingangsbestaetigung Ihrer Anfrage [Vorgang:#1141713303]
Message-ID: <200403012228.i21MSGG14111@mailgate3.cinetic.de>

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

hiermit bestaetigen wir den Eingang Ihrer Nachricht"Re: Hi". Unser Serviceteam hat sich Ihrem Anliegen angenommen und diesem die Vorgangsnummer #1141713303 zugewiesen.

Bitte beachten Sie, dass wir aus Sicherheitsgruenden nur Dateianhaenge in den folgenden Formaten akzeptieren und bearbeiten koennen:
.GIF .JPG .BMP .PNG .PDF .HTM .HTML und .TXT

Wir sichern Ihnen eine schnellstmoegliche Bearbeitung zu.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Ihr WEB.DE Kundenservice



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Mar 11 00:24:52 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:24:52 GMT
Subject: urllib & browser proxy settings
References: <d232c5e.0403100212.7b86b109@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A94140851C5JanC@213.119.4.35>

chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon) schreef:

> I am running a medusa bases server, which spawns a copy process which
> reports back it's status using urllib as below
[...]
> This is all works very well and life is a sea of tranquility and
> programming is fun (see threads passim.)
> 
> However when the server is used in the presence of a system which has
> the browser proxy setting activated (mozilla or IE) It fails with
> "Software caused connection abort".

Did you try:

f = urllib.urlopen("http://localhost:8088/root/copyresult", params, proxies={})


-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Wed Mar 24 00:27:08 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:27:08 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<8hs160ltsqq9k3k18cfs7h2jtdro6rss98@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wtadna6zjcaxgfzdRVn-gw@speedfactory.net>

> In spite of these problems, I'm very happy with IDLE.  Once you get it
> working, it is ideal for students.

Having spent the evening working with it, I agree.

My notes:
http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/idle

Thanks to all!




From deets_noospaam at web.de  Thu Mar  4 15:12:29 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:12:29 +0100
Subject: Redirecting stdout and stdin
References: <c281ap$2l5$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <c282jd$j52$02$1@news.t-online.com>

look for pyexpect.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From dima at debian.org  Thu Mar 18 08:28:06 2004
From: dima at debian.org (Dima Barsky)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:28:06 +0000
Subject: debian packages
References: <405852DA.8030808@Invalid.domain>
Message-ID: <pdx4qsm474p.fsf@kappa.ac93.org>

Debian User <User at Invalid.domain> writes:

> With redhat deciding go make some real money from the fruits of their
> labour, management decided to try out debian. This leads me to my
> possible future problem: is there a way to create debian (deb)
> packages using distutils (or any other python extensiom) for python
> scripts?

It is possible, and many python-related debian packages are built
using distutils. For example, have a look at python2.3-pam package.

Regards,
Dima.



From stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org  Sat Mar  6 23:25:02 2004
From: stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:25:02 GMT
Subject: Eric /Qt documentation / how-to?
Message-ID: <yux2c.729744$ts4.93229@pd7tw3no>

I'm trying to get an idea of how the Eric3 IDE works.  I've got it 
installed and running, and also have the Qt Designer installed and 
running. Thanks to a a tutorial I found in the Qt section of the 
moinmoin at python.org, I have figured out how to use .ui files in a 
python script to create my GUI.  So far, so good.

What I don't see is the value I would get from using Eric3.  I mean, I 
can use the Scintilla editor on a standalone basis, and launch Qt 
Designer manually.  What extra value would I get by using Eric3?  Is 
there a way to create .py files out of .ui files by using Eric3?

Lastly, is there any documentation that explains how to make best use of 
Eric3?

thanks
Stewart


From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 11:45:32 2004
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:45:32 -0800
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405ff7f4$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <899f842.0403230845.70e26735@posting.google.com>

> > Encryption - AES and 3DES. Possibly RSA and Certificate processing.
> > DNS - Something better than gethostbyaddr for looking up other record 
> > types.
> > Database - Something suitable for small projects / prototypes like 
> > pysqlite or something in pure python even.
> > SSL/TLS - Some useful support...

I agree and would add the ldap module.

My feeling is that once a module is included in the standard library
the level of documentation and testing improves significantly. I've
always prefered the python way of including libraries over perl.

If the distro is too large you could always modify the installer to
allow users to choose which modules to include(like ms office does
with apps).


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Mar 30 04:44:33 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:44:33 +1000
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040330094433.GB471@frobozz>

On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 10:46:42PM -0800, Mark Hahn wrote:
> I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
> with a function like a closure of sorts?
> 
> In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs ands
> or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?

How is it possible to store a function from some object in another object
for later use, e.g. as a callback?

i.e. in Python syntax:

    class C:
        def __init__(self, callbackFunc):
            self.callbackFunc = callbackFunc
    
        def fireCallback(self):
            self.callbackFunc()
    
    c = C(someobj.method)
    
    ...
    
    c.fireCallback()

> You say fragile.  What breaks?

The fragility I see is that storing a function in a variable doesn't modify
the function, but storing it as an attribute of an object does, i.e.

    f = someobj.method
    x = f
    x()

behaves differently to:

    otherobj.f = someobj.method
    x = otherobj.f
    x()

Python solves this by wrapping functions found in classes as (un)bound
methods (which keep track of the instance they were accessed from) -- but
functions found on *instances* (i.e. they are in the dict of the instance,
but not the class) are left alone.  It works well :)

-Andrew.




From kbk at shore.net  Sat Mar 13 02:00:44 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:00:44 GMT
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.320.1079113077.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y8q52pvb.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> writes:

> #- 1. Don't use the quit method, instead just close your 
> #- window.  Your QUIT
> #- button could perhaps use:
> #- 	command=self.destroy
>
> Used command=master.destroy. This way I'm telling "destroy" to the Tk
> instance.

When the last widget is destroyed, the mainloop exits.

[...]

> As Gerrit Muller, I think this should be standard information. It's
> important because Tkinter is the built in GUI and IDLE is the built
> in IDE.

Start the Python interpreter (not IDLE) and run your code using
self.quit.  You'll see it that it works.  Now run two Pythons at the
same time with that code.  Everything is fine, self.quit works for
both.  So it's not some interaction with the windowing system.

When IDLE uses its subprocess, the intent is that there are two
separate processes, each with a Tkinter application running.  One is
the user's, the other is the IDLE GUI's.  This should work as well as
the example in the previous paragraph.

When IDLE doesn't use a subprocess, the user's Tk gets mixed with
IDLE's, and it's not surprising things fail.

For me, on OpenBSD, Linux, and W2K, using the subprocess: if I use
self.quit, the Dialog becomes unresponsive because the mainloop has
been exited.  But the advertised action on mainloop exit is to destroy
any remaining widgets, and that's not happening.  If I restart the
shell, the Tk widget is destroyed correctly.

This certainly appears to be a bug in IDLE.  It's been reported 
before:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=661324&group_id=9579&atid=109579

First person to get me a solution gets their name in the IDLE credits.

Hint: some part of the IDLE GUI namespace is being passed to the subprocess.

      import sys
      sys.modules.keys()

-- 
KBK


From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 02:20:00 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:20:00 -0800
Subject: CGI with python help newbie
Message-ID: <uEa8c.39708$Bg.1320@fed1read03>

I have been doing some programming in python for a while now, but have
always used perl for cgi scripting.  I would like to try using python
because of its ease of programming.

If I already have apache web server installed and have the python
interpreter running with no problems.

What is needed to get a python script working over my web server.

For example I have the following:

#!/usr/locla/bin/python
print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"


first, middle, last = 5, 7.5, 10

print "first:", first
print "middle:", middle
print "last:", last, "\n"


I would like it to print out to the browser:
5 7.5 10

Any help?

Thanks




From olku at web.de  Thu Mar 18 04:15:47 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:15:47 +0100
Subject: Base64 encoding/decoding [solve]
Message-ID: <200403180915.i2I9FlQ32154@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hello,

I found the problem. 

I uses MimeText and Encode.encode_base64. And it seems, that this combination converted the base64 string through quoted_printable. Which causes that == at the end was converted to =3D=3D. So ... the base64.decodestring-Function failed. 

But I'm still looking for a good tutorial or howto, where is describe howto handle different charsets and convert them to a specific one. 

--
Oliver?Kurz




From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  1 07:19:18 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:19:18 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
References: <5d83790c.0402290218.2d3c493f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m34qt87oah.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:

> Idioms and Obscurity
> --------------------
> Using a=constructor(b) for copying and a.__init__(arg) for updates
> may seem obscure until they become standard idioms.  In time, I think
> they seem more general and less cryptic than the older copy and
> replace idioms, a=b[:] and a[:]=b.

Well, I think calling __init__ directly is a horrendous idea.  It just
reads badly.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  > I'm a little confused.
  That's because you're Australian!  So all the blood flows to
  your head, away from the organ most normal guys think with.
                        -- Mark Hammond & Tim Peters, comp.lang.python


From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 05:50:32 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 02:50:32 -0800
Subject: network servers
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0403020250.66d3536e@posting.google.com>

We're planning to write a server for handling atleast 1000 and atmost
4000 clients.  The connection is basically (TCP)
connect-send-disconnect type.  So no client will open up its
connection forever, except for the small time duration of sending the
message.  This is something like online programming contest, where
clients will submit their programs for evaluation and server will
return the results (after sometime). I though of writing the server
part in C and use Python for client.

Is it possible to use python for that high performance serving?  Note:
There is only one physical machine.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 23:30:12 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <4057C28E.92965723@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20040317043012.70392.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, gotcha. By the way, do you know how to set the
default language of Mandrake or any linux system, so
that I can probably mimic.

I want to set the default language of my Mandrake to
Chinese.

Thanks.

--- Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> 
> > I get the following error message.
> > 
> > [antony at ancho tmp]$ python snake.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "snake.py", line 6, in ?
> >     print a
> > UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
> > characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in
> range(256)
> > [antony at ancho tmp]$
> > 
> > What is the problem please?
> 
> The problem is the default encoding is Latin-1,
> presumably because
> that's the only thing your xterm/virtual console
> understands.  So Python
> is rightly complaining that it can't print the
> Chinese characters for
> you.
> 
> -- 
>  __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com &&
> http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> /  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W &&
> &tSftDotIotE
> \__/ In this world, nothing is certain but death and
> taxes.
>     -- Benjamin Franklin
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Mar  5 03:44:26 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:44:26 +0100
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
References: <mailman.4.1078428023.679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.05.08.44.26.445313@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:20:39 -0500 schrieb Maru, Mulugeta:

> What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL to develop a
> database driven intranet?
> Do I need to use any framework or application server?
> If I do please kindly direct me where to go. 

Yes, you need something that maps an HTTP-Request
to a method call.

I use quixote[1] because it is small and simple.
I even don't use the form library of quixote.
If you have more logic than HTML, it is better
to use python syntax:

def foo(request):
    ret=[]
    ret.append(header())
    ret.append(....)
    ret.append(footer())
    return ''.join(ret) 



[1] http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/



From hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr  Mon Mar 29 10:22:06 2004
From: hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:22:06 +0200
Subject: Independent interpreters in threads
Message-ID: <200403291722.06253.hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr>

I am looking for a way to have several threads, each of which running an 
independent Python interpreter. Most of the work is done by the module 
"code", but I also need to provide each interpreter with an independent set 
of modules. I found a solution using name-mangling through the ihooks module, 
but it is not quite clear which aspects of that module can be considered 
documented, and I found that I had to update my code when moving from Python 
2.2 to Python 2.3.

Is there any cleaner solution?

In case someone wonders what this is good for, the goal is to simulate a 
parallel computing system on a single processor and in a single process space 
for debugging purposes.

Konrad.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Hinsen                            | E-Mail: hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr
Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24
Rue Charles Sadron                       | Fax:  +33-2.38.63.15.17
45071 Orleans Cedex 2                    | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/
France                                   | Nederlands/Francais
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar 30 18:32:46 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:46 -0600
Subject: struct.pack Format String Question
References: <4069E5C6.BC5274E6@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ArCdnY3ShNsKnvfdRVn-gQ@comcast.com>

"B" is unsigned character (from Python Library Reference).

I'm hoping you copied the line down wrong, because it won't
work (there is probably another B).

See output below:

import struct
word0=1
word1=2
word2=3
word3=4
word4=5
msg = struct.pack('BBBB',word0, word1, word2, word3, word4)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
error: too many arguments for pack format

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Joshua Forgione" <jforgion at vt.edu> wrote in message
news:4069E5C6.BC5274E6 at vt.edu...
> Hello.  I am reverse engineering some Python Code.  I am using the book
> "The Quick Python Book" as an aide.
>
> The following line exists in the code:
>
> msg = struct.pack('BBBB',word0, word1, word2, word3, word4)
>
> In this struct.pack command, the format string is 'BBBB.'  In the book,
> it gives the following examples for characters that are meaningful to
> struct:
>
> 'h' - short integer
> 'd' - double-precision floating point
> 's' - string
>
> In this case, 'B' is used.  What does 'B' represent?  What other
> characters can be used?  Does a list of this exist somewhere?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Josh
>




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Mar  8 19:18:51 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 19:18:51 -0500
Subject: pywin32 access to non-IDispatch interface under pywin.mfc.activex?
Message-ID: <uu10y3mac.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

I was wondering if anyone else has ever had a need or been able to retrieve
some interface other than IDispatch from a COM control hosted with the
pywin.mfc.activex support from the pywin32 package?

I'm working with an embedded IE browser under Windows (using wxPython,
which wraps it using pywin.mfc.activex), and somehow I need to work my
way over to the IOleInPlaceActiveObject interface.  I can issue the
QueryInterface on the underlying object but it will only let me query
for IUnknown.

The wxPython wrapper uses the generated CoClass from win32com.client's
gen_py file as part of the wrapper, so I'm guessing that I may already
have a problem since the wrapper itself has instantiated an IDispatch
version of the object.  I guess I was hoping that it would be the same
underlying object and that using the IUnknown interface I could
QueryInterface my way to the other interface, but it doesn't seem to
work.

Any suggestions or pointers to get me moving in the right direction
would be much appreciated.

-- David


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 15 17:38:52 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:38:52 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.26.1079372001.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <105cc7qfb87k716@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u at 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:33:04 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> It's worse than just a misunderstanding.  It's a serious limitation on
> what we can do with editing a running program.

Well, that's a definite yes and no. The limitation is quite simple:
any object in the module that has a reference from outside of the
module will not have that reference changed. It will continue to
refer to the old copy of the object.

The solution to this is to apply some design discipline. Systems
exist that have absolute "cannot come down for any reason"
type of requirements where software has to be replaced while the
system is running. It's not impossible, it simply requires a great
deal of discipline in not allowing references to wander all over the
place.

As far as updating in place while debugging, there are a few
solutions that, so far, haven't been implemented. One is to
notice that functions are objects that have a reference to another
object called a "code object." This is the actual result of the
compilation, and if you go behind the scenes and replace the
code object reference in the function object, you've basically
done an update in place - as long as you don't have a stack
frame with a pointer into the old code object! (The stack frame
could, of course, be fixed too. Extra credit for doing so.)

I can easily imagine a development environment that could
do this kind of magic. If someone wants to build it, I'm
certainly not going to stop them (and wouldn't even if I could.)
I might even find it useful!

The thing that is not going to work, ever, is having reload()
do the work for you.

> I don't agree that
> what it does now is well defined (at least not in the documentation).

It's well enough defined for someone who knows how Python works.

> The discussion in Learning Python is totally misleading.  We should at
> least update the description of the reload function in the Python
> Library Reference.  See the thread "Reload Confusion" for some
> suggested text.

I agree with that: instead of "There are some caveats" it should say:

WARNING - references to objects in the old copy of the module
that have leaked out of the module will NOT be replaced. A few of
the implications are:

and then continue with the current text (my version of the doc is 2.3.2).

John Roth
>
> -- Dave
>




From merkosh at hadiko.de  Sat Mar  6 05:20:04 2004
From: merkosh at hadiko.de (Uwe Mayer)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:20:04 +0100
Subject: mechanics to specify an interface
Message-ID: <c2c8kk$oat$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

in my program I want to "specify" that some object implements i.e. the
dictionary or list interface.
What is the Python way to do that?

i.e. in Java I'd include an interface.
in Python I could write an abstract class and inherit from it (probably
needs multiple inheritance), or I could just specify that in a comment. 

What'd you suggest?
Thanks in advance
Uwe



From dlissett0 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 02:17:18 2004
From: dlissett0 at yahoo.com (Duncan Lissett)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 23:17:18 -0800
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA at powergate.ca>...

> It appears the "specification" is his original, which was written
> in BCPL.  It also seems that the problem is relatively generic,
> just a "task scheduler", without really requiring low-level support
> of the kind I feared (after looking at the Pascal and C versions).

Exactly, it's a simulation of a OS kernel task scheduler.

> I'd implement it in Python for kicks, but I'm not sure how I'd know
> whether my version was doing the right thing.  Are there any tests
> for it?  Ways of ensuring the output is correct?

Martin Richards original spec and debug/trace information is reposted
here:
http://www.lissett.com/ben/com/benchspec.htm

There are many different ways to implement the benchmark, a Python
version of the straightforward OO implementation would be an
interesting place to start. Like these Java C# Smalltalk
implementations:

http://www.lissett.com/ben/exp/bench1-java-62.htm
http://www.lissett.com/ben/exp/bench1-csharp-30.htm
http://www.lissett.com/ben/exp/bench1-smalltalk-34.htm


From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 22 10:36:34 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:36:34 +0000
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <405f0803$0$15618$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

John Burton wrote:

> One of the reasons I like python so much is that the standard 
> installation comes with a whole lot of libraries to do lots of useful 
> things but there seem to be a few things missing from the standard 
> library which would be useful in many projects:

It depends on what you regard as a 'standard library'. For me it is the 
minimum required to use the language in a general sense. The smallest 
subset of all the possible modules. Thus access to the file system is a 
requirement but Encryption, DNS, Database, etc are not.

I can use Python without them but take away access to the file system an 
Python becomes less useful. Besides do we really want a humungous 
standard library, a al Java, or something you could actually get your 
head around.

> Is there any reason why those things are not already in the standard 
> library?

Gadfly is a useful SQL database in Python and I am sure that the 
developer(s) are fully committed to supporting it into the future. 
However if it becomes part of the standard library then this would 
impose an additional workload / strain of the developers.

Unless the code is perfect it will require maintainance and testing as 
Python grows. As the standard library grows the amount of testing grows 
with it, and it is probably not linear.

This alone would be a reason to keep the standard library small.


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 02:19:47 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 07:19:47 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
Message-ID: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>

Hello,

This is not a troll posting, and I've refrained from
asking because I've seen similar threads get all
nitter-nattery.  But I really want to make a decision
on how best to invest my time.  I'm not interested on
which language is better in *general*, just for my
purpose.  My area of research is in CAD algorithms,
and I'm sensing the need to resort to something more
expedient than C++, bash scripting, or sed scripting.
What I hope to do is a bit multifaceted.  What I don't
do dabble in is web apps (though I'm not sure of the
similarities).  No XML processing or database
interaction in what I do.

One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.  In the
past, I've eeked out sed scripts for such tasks, but
would appreciate a more traditional language.  Since
Perl is used alot in digital IC design, I took a stab
at that, motivated by the simple need to convert my
mail aliases from one mail reader to the other.  It
took a while to do, and I'm concerned at the difficulty
level.  If I did this kind of thing constantly, I
would probably get proficient and use the power behind
it, but it's not my main area.

The alternative is Python, which is easier to read
from what I've read.  My concern there is that I cut
myself off from large availability of stuff that's
out there.  For example, I use a PC-to-solaris
viewer called VNC, and I've banged my head against the
startup script to change it a bit for my situation.
Likewise, the above translator uses Perl extensively
in its operation, as well as it's building and
installation.  If I wasn't passingly familiar with
Perl, I would have had a much harder time installing
it.  Being in the approximate area digit circuits,
I'm concerned about being on the band wagon, if only
to avoid reinventing things, or impediments to sharing
things.

An additional usage scenario is to (if reasonable)
replace my shell scripting e.g. I just converted to
bash from tcsh to write scripts that push a document
through a series of filters, or simply as a wrapper
around a tough-to-use utility e.g. pstops.  A final
example is to take a file of design information and
do more than tweak it e.g. extract all the information
about interconnections between circuit building blocks,
including which is the source block, and which are the
destination blocks.  Typically, this information will
be read by matlab scripts and passed to my C++ code
(I've managed to avoid writing code to parse the
input file from C++).

Whichever way I go, I would like to avoid the overhead
of learning both Perl and Python.  I will sculpt out some
time in a miserly fashion to slowly get to know one.  Since
I spend most of my time exploring the algorithm in Matlab or
C++/STL, there's only so much time to pick up higher level
languages (it took years before I shelled out the time
to switch from tcsh to bash).  One of the things that
makes the decision not clear is that despite Python's
claim to a gentler learning curve and clearer code, I
often like the expedience of sed e.g. a terse one-liner
that can be pipelined with other shell commands.  I
also note that Perl's unweldiness only comes for big
projects, and I don't expect to using Perl quite that
way.

I've seen mention of parrot and perl6, which is quite a
ways off.  I'm not sure how much that should weigh into
my decision, since it isn't real yet.

Thanks for any comments/suggestions.
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From beans at bedford.net  Sat Mar 13 07:29:12 2004
From: beans at bedford.net (TomH)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 04:29:12 -0800
Subject: Sorting Driving Crazy: URGENT: PLEASE HELP
References: <mailman.346.1079159911.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7135e36e.0403130429.61d0d64b@posting.google.com>

dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.346.1079159911.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> This is really driving me crazy.
...
> 
> 
> When I print x and feature_vectors[x]  I get some of
> the entries which are not in the increasing order.
...
> 
> 22844 	4.61279461279
> SORTING
> 
> 22846 	93.1537598204
> SORTING
> 
> 2357 	0.00224466891134
> SORTING
> 
> 3105 	0.00224466891134
> SORTING
...
> 
> This should not happen but why is this happening and
> how to fix this.
> 
> My problem is given a dictionary, sort the keys and
> have a new dictionary with the key, values where the
> keys are in increasing order.
> 
> I would be really grateful if anyone can help me out
> 
> Thanks
> Dont
> 
...

Your keys are strings, so they're being sorted in alphabetical order
e.g. 'a', 'aa', 'b'. It doesn't matter if all of the characters in the
strings happen to be digits, e.g. '1', '11', '2', strings are strings.
Cast the keys to integers before the sort.

-Tom


From brojohan at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 16:39:47 2004
From: brojohan at hotmail.com (Bror Johansson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:39:47 GMT
Subject: Release history ?
Message-ID: <DGo6c.52740$mU6.219523@newsb.telia.net>

I've searched for, but haven't found, a compilation of the incremental
differences between major releases of Python, starting from (my entry
version) 1.4 or 1.5.

Is there somewhere something that contains this info?

/BJ




From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Tue Mar  2 20:19:06 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:19:06 +0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
In-Reply-To: <Hu61c.84024$Wa.81499@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <000101c400bd$86a8e0d0$0000fea9@simonxp>

> and the final result is still much slower than Fortran. For the 
> Fortran program, the only "trick" is the use of integer*8.

Yes. But this is hardly surprising. Hundreds of man years have been
spend optimising Fortran compilers.

Sw.




From emile at fenx.com  Mon Mar  1 18:34:57 2004
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:34:57 -0800
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
Message-ID: <c20h8l$82p$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dear group,

I've possibly narrowed a problem I'm having running zope as a service
on winxp pro sp 1 in that when started from a command line as:

c:\zope\v27\lib\python\python.exe
c:\zope\v27\lib\python\zope\startup\run.py -C
c:\zope\v27\instance\etc\zope.conf

it starts up just fine (although now running from the console).

But when I start it with:

c:\zope\v27\lib\python\pythonw.exe
c:\zope\v27\lib\python\zope\startup\run.py -C
c:\zope\v27\instance\etc\zope.conf

it dies after about 30 seconds.

It wouldn't surprise me that I'm doing something it doesn't like (I'm
spawning additional processes from within a product but it worked fine
with 2.5), but I'm somewhat at a loss as to debugging it in that when
run as a console app it works fine, but when run windowless it
doesn't.

Do I have to write out check points to a file? or is there some way to
use Mark Hammonds process debugging tools?  Or is this a bug, known or
otherwise?

Pointers and hints welcome.

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx dot com
emile at fenx.com





From Florian.Lindner at xgm.de  Wed Mar  3 08:12:31 2004
From: Florian.Lindner at xgm.de (Florian Lindner)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:12:31 +0100
Subject: Generating salt for crypt
Message-ID: <c24ljv$3rk$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello,
what is the best way to generate a random salt for the crypt function?
I'm rather a python newbie... ;-)
Thx,
Florian


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 18:40:55 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 15:40:55 -0800
Subject: Import config into global space?
References: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>
	<c4dh8i$q5s$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0403310820.4d46c8dd@posting.google.com>
	<c4f5ob$fsb$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <30260531.0403311540.61b2bdf2@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

[snip]
> > > from config import *

> > Actually, I've gone with the config.variable syntax for now anyway, it
> > actually makes more sense as I don't have to name my variables like
> > fontsize_config to differentiate them.

> In general, "from module import *" is generally frowned upon, if only 
> because it can clobber your module's namespace.  There are certainly 
> exceptions, but namespaces are useful.

Yes, that's what I thought, one of the reasons I'm going to go with
the config.variable syntax after all.

I'm moving to the wxWidgets 2.5 way of using the wx namespace too
(e.g. wx.ListCtrl instead of wxListCtrl).


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Thu Mar  4 23:41:26 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:41:26 -0800
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403032110.35425635@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.2.1078354064.772.python-list@python.org>
	<30260531.0403032110.35425635@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404804F6.9030901@mlug.missouri.edu>

I've used MySQLdb with Python for quite some time and have been very 
pleased with it. It is quite easy to use and I've had no stability 
issues with using it.

>>From what I've seen, PostgreSQL is more widely supported than MySQL under Python.
>  
>




From tms at srasys.co.in  Tue Mar  9 09:55:35 2004
From: tms at srasys.co.in (Meenakshi Sundaram)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:25:35 +0530
Subject: Reg invoking winrrunner
Message-ID: <001e01c405e6$9421da40$0b0110ac@sra578>

hi,
i want to call winrunner from python can any one help me

regards,
TMS
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From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Wed Mar 17 22:36:58 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:36:58 -0600
Subject: Encoded file
References: <mailman.104.1079555760.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4059195e$1_1@themost.net>


<pengz1 at netzero.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.104.1079555760.742.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hi!
> Could I ask you, how can I know a file is encoded as 'UTF-8', 'UTF-16' or
something else? Thanks in advance.
>
> Zhi

While there are BOM (Byte Order Mark) indicators specified by the Unicode
standard, very few files actually have them.

In general, this is still an old-fashioned protocol.  You can ask the person
or look at the code that created the file.




From os-moma at email.no  Wed Mar 17 02:29:36 2004
From: os-moma at email.no (os moma)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:29:36 +0100
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
In-Reply-To: <1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <B7T5c.1204$zf6.16977@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hello Laird,

Combine "lshw" (list hardware),
         "free" (total/free/used/shared memory) and
         "df"   (disk free/used) commands.

Study the GPL'ed source.

1) http://ezix.sourceforge.net/software/lshw.html

(sample output: http://www.futuredesktop.org/hw/lshw_moma.html )

2) "free", "du" and "df" are propably part of the GNU coreutils package.

Your tool should support the kernel-v2.6 (who cares about v2.4 any more ?).

It should have these content formats:
  -t html  || --type=html
  -t xml
  -t text    (default)
  -t query   (should return only one value. Anwsers to a question)

And output types:
  -o 1   (compact format. One text line pr. device)
  -o 2   (short format)
  -o 3   (long, complete format. Default)

...


// moma
    http://www.futuredesktop.org  (newbie links at the top -(:-o


Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
> Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
> 
>>I need a piece of code to extract as much info about OS, current status and
>>hardware from a machine as possible ( at least, all available partitions and
>>free space on these, CPU-speed, free/total memory and stuff like that ) at
>>one given moment on Linux and Windows.
>>
>>Any hints? Can I call something in win32all on Windows or read some file on
>>linux? I'm not sure where to begin.
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I was hoping someone else would answer this.
> 
> My impression is that there are dozens of answers to this.
> I know I've seen quite a few such utilities advertised in
> places like Freshmeat.  I haven't kept track of them at 
> all.  
> 
> "... as much info ... as possible ...":  whoooo!  Usually
> when a manager says that to me, I ask for how much he's 
> willing to pay.  As it turns out, notions like "free 
> space", "CPU speed", and so on are surprisingly poorly
> standardized.  It's far from clear what they mean for any
> particular platform.
> 
> Sooooooo, what I usually do is define my requirements 
> carefully, and write up my own tool.



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Tue Mar 30 18:44:47 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:44:47 -0000
Subject: mod_python exception catching,
	other repetitious per-page actions
References: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
	<mailman.457.1080328816.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6k27d.8nt.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.457.1080328816.742.python-list at python.org>, Jeff Epler wrote:
> One more idea -- I don't know mod_python, but is the Publisher class
> something you could subclass, to add your own behavior there instead of
> in each page function?

I suppose I should be embarrassed to say this, but I just made a copy and
modified it to suit my own needs. I don't think its design is particularly
extensible, but it's a small script that's easy to understand.

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:41:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:41:02 -0500
Subject: isinstance method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1079391258.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.9.1079391258.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fP-dnYI7-_LA-8rdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu wrote:

> I need to find out dynamically if an object is instance of a Class but I don't
> know how to use this isinstance buit-in function. I have the object and the name
> of the class, what should I do?

Many classes can have the same name, so you additionally must know which 
module (i.e. have a reference to the module) in which the class was defined.

Then, knowing that a module responds as a dict object, you can retrieve 
an actual reference to the class and carry on as Erik Max Francis showed 
you.

-Peter


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Tue Mar  2 13:17:51 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:17:51 -0300 (ART)
Subject: time.sleep()
In-Reply-To: <c22icd$s8s$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20040302181751.723.qmail@web61007.mail.yahoo.com>


 --- Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> escreveu: 
> Does standard C have anything like Python's time.sleep() function?

NAME
       sleep - Sleep for the specified number of seconds
                                                                       
        
SYNOPSIS
       #include <unistd.h>
                                                                       
        
       unsigned int sleep(unsigned int seconds);
 
DESCRIPTION
       sleep()  makes  the  current  process  sleep until seconds have
       elapsed or a signal arrives which is not ignored.
 
RETURN VALUE
       Zero if the requested time has elapsed, or the number of seconds
               
       left to sleep.
 
CONFORMING TO
       POSIX.1
 
BUGS
       sleep()  may  be implemented using SIGALRM; mixing calls to   
       alarm() and sleep() is a bad idea.


PS: may not work under windows...

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar  8 03:31:48 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 08:31:48 GMT
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Leif K-Brooks <eurleif at ecritters.biz> wrote in 
news:QjV2c.302$_43.225384 at newshog.newsread.com:

> In any case, I did a quick Python implementation of the show function. 
> All bugs are features. :-)
> 
> import sys
> 
> def show(*objects, **parameters):
>      seperator = parameters.get('seperator', ' ')
>      trailer = parameters.get('trailer', '\n')
>      to = parameters.get('to', sys.stdout)
>      first = 1
>      for object in objects:
>          if not first:
>              to.write(str(seperator))
>          to.write(str(object))
>          first = 0
>      to.write(str(trailer))
>      if len(objects) == 1:
>          return objects[0]
>      else:
>          return objects
> 

You need a bit more checking to be sure nobody tried to pass in any 
unexpected keyword arguments, and your output loop is a bit messy.

def show(*args, **kw):
        separator = kw.get('separator', ' ')
        trailer = kw.get('trailer', '\n')
        to = kw.get('to', sys.stdout)
        for keyword in kw:
            if not keyword in ('separator', 'trailer', 'to'):
                raise TypeError(
'show() got an unexpected keyword argument' + keyword)
        to.write(separator.join([ str(arg) for arg in args]))
        to.write(trailer)
        if len(args)==1:
            return args[0]
        else:
            return args

Things wrong with the proposal:

The arguments that this function accepts don't follow the pattern of any 
other Python functions, so we need 6 lines of code just to unscramble them. 
This should be a big red warning flag: don't go that way.

The 4 lines of code to work out the result are another red flag warning 
that the result is going to cause confusion for users.

The real work of the function can be replaced by 2 lines of code, or 1 if 
you don't mind copying the output string an extra time. So the penalty is 
to add an inconsistent function to the language that everyone has to learn 
in return for replacing one line of code with a (possibly) shorter line of 
code.

If you need this, then just hardwire your separator and terminator and 
write a custom one line function for each different style of output. 
Personally I think I'll stick to using format strings.


From lilyth at umich.edu  Fri Mar 19 13:37:53 2004
From: lilyth at umich.edu (Lilith)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 10:37:53 -0800
Subject: Graph Problems (was Re: Is there a map or graph module?)
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
	<c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<75200cbc.0403190755.5765890a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <75200cbc.0403191037.637d7893@posting.google.com>

lilyth at umich.edu (Lilith) wrote in message news:<75200cbc.0403190755.5765890a at posting.google.com>...
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3dpmp$7r5$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > Lilith wrote:
> > > Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
> > > which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
> > > finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
> > > through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
> > > would be less parsimonious.
> > > Thanks for any suggestions!
> > 
> > Thank Guido, http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html
> 
> That's not working for me. I should have mentioned I tried that, but I
> get a slew of these errors:
>   
>     > File "guidograph.py", line 40, in find_all_paths
>     > newpaths = find_all_paths(graph, node, end, path)
>  
>     > RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
> 
> Guido's example works fine when I use his simple graph. When I plug in
> my 9000-node graph, I get those problems even if the nodes are a few
> steps away. I think my network is too big for that code.
> 
> I imagine there's some kind of recursion limit I can set somewhere,
> but it's probably a problem in that the code can't handle larger
> graphs. Not only does find_all_paths crash, but so does find_path.

Just in case my second posting didn't get through on one, I did find
the way to use the sys module to up the recursion limit. Never had to
use that one, thanks in advance for anyone who points that out, ahead
of time. (I'm on Google, so I'm lagging behind a few hours)


From hgeldenhuys at gmsonline.co.za  Fri Mar  5 05:23:41 2004
From: hgeldenhuys at gmsonline.co.za (Herman Geldenhuys)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:23:41 +0200
Subject: Tkinter main window needs to disappear
Message-ID: <002c01c4029b$ee9d2900$b10d10ac@metasalio>

Blanki've got to use a library(tkSnack) in Tkinter, but i don't want to use the Tk GUI. i need to create a Tkinter.Tk() and call it's main loop for the package to work, but like I said, I don't want to use the GUI. when I do this, there pops up a gui (main) window, but how do I make it disappear?

thanks!

Herman
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From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar  7 16:16:22 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:16:22 -0800
Subject: Need better string methods
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E8B@opus.amorhq.net>

benjamin schollnick wrote:
> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
> 
> > The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits and
> > pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen CPL.
> > 
> 
> David,
> 
>    I think your coming at this too much like a programmer...  |-)
> 
>    Your right, this is tooo complex for a non-programmer to expect
> to simply use...
> 
>    So redefine the problem, or look at it from a 90 degree angle.
> 
>    If making the users understand the syntax is to complex, than
> redefine the syntax.
> 
>    Define a set of commands, and make them function wrappers around
> your code.
> 
> > line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
> 
>    I am assuming your running into these lines on a regular basis, so
> make a wrapper around your python function...  Call it "Cleanup" or
> "Parse_bar_line_string" or something that makes sense to your
> users, and have them call that function....

Well said. Even though you (David) are ostensibly providing coding
tools, you need to approach it from an interface-design point-of-view.
That is, you need to find the perfect balance between power and
simplicity, then throw that estimate away and dumb it down by a factor
of 10 (for non-engineers, 100 ;). Most people don't want more expressive
tools; a sure way to burn yourself out is trying to provide them. Find
the smallest set of actions your users can get by with, then build,
test, listen!, improve. Repeat as necessary. Bask in job security.


FuManChu



From llothar at web.de  Tue Mar 23 10:57:20 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 07:57:20 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403230757.756f99cd@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xad28313c.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> > You might also have occasion to learn about Pyrex and ... well, I'm
> > in the Trotskyite wing on this question.  It's not just that Python
> > can work for large projects.  I sincerely regard it as an even
> > *better* comparative choice on large projects; C++ and Java, the
> > usual com- petition, show all sorts of blemishes when one scales the
> > size of the project.  Python remains usable, even at the high end.
> 
> I keep hearing this, but I don't see any large (much less very large)
> applications that have been done in Python; Zope is medium sized.
> 
> Suppose you wanted to write any of the following:
> 
> 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> 10) ... well you get the idea.

2) if the HTML rendering engine (around 40.000 LOC) is written in C
3) if the Display widget for word is written in C (excel,access,pp
would be no problem)
4) here i must say that i don't really know what the system does but i
think i have an idea about it.
6) maybe the best example how python could benefit. I don't know about
your IRS but our german tax system is a huge bunch of conditional
cases, not a data intensive system.
8) for the some reason as 6, of course you maybe must write a special
number datatype in c
9) parts of it: The Postgres query optimizer is written in very slow
interpreted lisp.

So as a summary: Everywhere where the logic is much more important
then data size of the dataset and you have to implement lots of
standarts (like 2) and save error handling (like 4).


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 16 19:20:25 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:20:25 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com><mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org><rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com><mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org><tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com><pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com><kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com><mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
	<mailman.54.1079473394.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g46f5054uo71kdjcij9jtiv13e1vbhlbcd@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:42:55 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>news:42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le at 4ax.com...
>>     def h23(freq):
>>         s = complex(2*pi*freq)
>>         h0 = PZfuncs.h0
>>         z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
>>         p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
>>         return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))
>>
>> Notice the clarity in that last formula.  This is a standard form of a
>> pole-zero transfer function that will be instantly recognized by a
>> circuit design engineer.  The issue isn't the typing of extra
>> characters, but the compactness of expressions.
>
>For one use only, making local copies adds overhead without the
>compensation of faster multiple accesses.  To make the formula nearly as
>clear without the overhead, I would consider
>
>import PZfuncs as z
>def h23(freq):
>    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
>    return z.h0 * (s-z.z1) * (s-z.z2) / ((s-z.p1) * (s-z.p2) * (s-z.p3))

This is equivalent to:

h0 = PZfuncs.h0
z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
def h23(freq):
    s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

Either way we have the architectural problem of ensuring that the code
just above the def gets executed *after* each reload of PZfuncs, and
*before* any call to h23.

-- Dave



From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 08:02:21 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:02:21 GMT
Subject: Decorators for paramters (was Re: The problem with "as")
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.290.1080058037.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6301i.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.290.1080058037.742.python-list at python.org>, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Joe> Not a big fan of that syntax - I have to keep the parameter names
>     Joe> and types in sync by counting.
> 
> Here's a dummy example from the in-progress version of the PEP:

<snip>

>     def func3(arg1, arg2, *rest, **kwds):
>         r = arg1 + arg2
>         print "r:", r
>         print "rest:", rest
>         print "kwds:", kwds
>         if 'result' in kwds:
>             return kwds['result']
>         return r
>     func3 = accepts(int, int)(func3)
>     func3 = returns(int)(func3)
> 
>     print func3(3,5,'a','b','c',other="47")
>     print func3(3,5,'a','b','c',result=47)
> 
> Note that check_accepts() does the counting for you.  If you wanted type
> declarations in the language I agree it would be more natural for the
> arguments and their types to be side-by-side, but then it wouldn't be
> Python. ;-)

No, you still have to count when you're actually writing the accepts()
call.  It's the same as the complaints against the print "%s%s" % (this,
that) syntax.

Type declarations isn't a great example, because nobody really wants
them in Python, but I'm sure we can come up with decorators that would
be worthwhile for parameters.  Markers for IDL or SWIG could be straight
passthroughs that are only there for the parser, for instance.  (Of
course, normally you'd just make them comments...)

>     Joe> For decorators in general, I like
> 
>     Joe>     def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:
>     
>     Joe> You get an explicit list syntax, but it's set off by a keyword so
>     Joe> they don't run together to the eye.  Because the keyword keeps it
>     Joe> unambiguous, you could even allow a tuple instead of a list: "def
>     Joe> foo() as (x, y, z)".
> 
> I don't understand how
> 
>     def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:
> 
> is somehow less ambiguous than
> 
>     def foo() [decor1, decor2, decor3]:

It's not any less ambiguous, it's just easier to read.

    def foo(blah, asfa, abble, gabble, spelunk)[blah, blagh, briggle]:
        pass
    def bar(blah, asfa, abble, gabble, spelunk, blah, blagh)[briggle]:
        pass
    def baz(blah, asfa, abble, gabble)[spelunk, blah, blagh, briggle]:
        pass

Can you tell how many parameters each of those has without peering
closely?

    def foo(blah, asfa, abble, gabble, spelunk) as [blah, blagh, briggle]:
        pass
    def bar(blah, asfa, abble, gabble, spelunk, blah, blagh) as [briggle]:
        pass
    def baz(blah, asfa, abble, gabble) as [spelunk, blah, blagh, briggle]:
        pass

That's still horrible, horrible style, but it's easier to take in.

> I'd prefer prepositional keywords actually be consistent with their English
> usage.  It's just line noise and is likely to provide some stumbling block
> of programmers whose command of the English language is not stellar.  What
> we really would say in English is
> 
>     Define function foo taking no arguments as modified by decor1, decor2
>     and decor3.
> 
> No single preposition is going to read correctly as a replacement for "as
> modified by", nor do we need all those other bits of English ("function",

I think "using" and "with" would both read correctly that way, if not
completely.  Also "has", but less so.  "as", not at all.

Joe


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Mar  1 10:56:56 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:56:56 +0100
Subject: Why Python?
In-Reply-To: <4043597F.30506@cs.com>
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>
	<4043597F.30506@cs.com>
Message-ID: <40435D48.5000107@ghaering.de>

Robert M. Emmons wrote:
> IMHO the whole reason C/C++ has sophisticated debugging tools is 
> that code debugging in C is a nightmare.

That's my opinion as well.

One debugging feature that Python doesn't support is "edit-while-debugging" (edit 
the function/method) you just debug, something which is possible in VB and VC6, 
for example) I think it'd not be *that* hard implementing it. Maybe a Python IDE 
vendor will implement it some day.

-- Gerhard



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar 18 01:17:53 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:17:53 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<abbf50l09jdtlup5mpnudi5pm6f4q7ku41@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <qnk65d2adbi.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:00:04 -0500, cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca
> (David M. Cooke) wrote:
>
>>Personally, almost all my uses of 'is' are of the form 'x is None' or
>>'x is not None'.
>
> Here are some more test results (averaging 10,000 evaluations in a
> tight loop):
>
>         time (sec)    %
> Test 1: 3.68E-007   100.0 F is False
> Test 2: 4.87E-007   132.1 F == False
> Test 3: 3.71E-007   100.0 N is None
> Test 4: 5.51E-007   148.6 N == None
>
> The '== None' test is 49% slower than 'is None', but in absolute time,
> the difference is only 180nec (on my new, but not top-speed PC).  So
> it would take about 10 million of these comparisons in a short time to
> make a noticable difference to the user.
>
> I can't see where the 'is' test would *ever* be needed for the above
> comparisons.

I do a lot of stuff with arrays in Numeric, which override __eq__ to
elementwise comparision:

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 24 2004, 09:29:20) 
[GCC 3.3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Numeric
>>> x = Numeric.array([0,1,2,3])
>>> x == None
array([0,0,0,0])
>>> bool(x == None)
False
>>> x is None
False
>>> x == False
array([1,0,0,0])
>>> bool(x == False)
True
>>> x is False
False
>>> bool(x == True)
True
>>> bool(x == True and x == False)
True

[Ok, so bool(x == None) returns False, which is good, but imagine the
overhead if x was an array of several million elements. x == None
would allocate a new array of the same size.]

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net  Sat Mar 13 14:13:13 2004
From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:13:13 GMT
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <wxF4c.2791$G3.23544@localhost>
	<c2vem7$k0f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <jpb-2D803B.14141313032004@newsr3.tampabay.rr.com>

In article <c2vem7$k0f$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
 Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Another question no one has asked: if you're trying to get central
> > control in a situation like this, why the heck do the users even know
> > the root password for their machines in the first place?  Can't you
> > reserve that for administrative use by the IT types, and give users safe
> > userids which _cannot_ do what you are saying they do to screw up the
> > systems?
> 
> They don't know the root password. They don't have to know it in order to
> change it... all it takes is an "administrative" user doing this:
> 
> sudo passwd root
> 
> They can change it to whatever they like.

Edit /etc/sudoers and remove the admin group. Add a different group for 
IT staff, and give that sudo rights.

jpb


From http  Sat Mar 20 03:03:53 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 00:03:53 -0800
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<JTS6c.15939$Bg.5379@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <7x1xnodjx2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Amy G" <amy-g-art at cox.net> writes:

> >>> n.update("help")
> >>> n.hexdigest()
> '657f8b8da628ef83cf69101b6817150a'
> 
> But I run FreeBSD 5.0 and when I execute
> $ echo help | openssl md5
> 45b758a4f518f3ff31363696132f5f5a
> 
> What gives?  What am I missing here?
> 
> Thanks in advance for shedding some light on my "easy" question.

Try n.update("help\n").


From likwoka at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 22:25:44 2004
From: likwoka at yahoo.com (Alex Li)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 19:25:44 -0800
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
References: <ea2ed14f.0403011151.406ab5ec@posting.google.com>
	<c20bn1$88a$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ea2ed14f.0403011925.12a4a3d@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de> wrote in message news:<c20bn1$88a$03$1 at news.t-online.com>...

> I did s/t similar, using twisted and pygame- worked great. I just checked if
> pygame supports chinese characters - it does! At least on my linux-box,
> with a chinese ttf I can get it to work. I actually had to use a chinese
> spam - who could have thought that spam can be actually useful?
> 
> However, consider what allen said.

Thanks for your info, Diez.  I agreed that Allen's suggestion is very
attractive, I am seriously considering it...  Anyhow, it is good to
know htat pygame + chinese + twisted worked great :)


From http  Mon Mar 29 15:04:25 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 12:04:25 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<slrnc6fvnf.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<v7U9c.59619$cx5.21262@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <7xvfknl8s6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> That was a great read.  Thanks.  I'll have to chew on it.

Aside from those rather esoteric issues, pure mark/sweep gc has
traditionally worked best in smaller systems, since the "mark" phase
involves touching every live pointer in the whole system, which are
scattered through all of memory.  As the system keeps running, memory
gets more and more fragmented and cache and paging performance get
worse and worse.  Also, besides touching all the live objects in the
mark phase, you also have to touch all the garbage in the sweep phase.

With a stop-and-copy gc, you still have to touch all the data during
gc, but you don't have to touch the garbage.  Also, after the gc is
done, you've copied all the live data to a contiguous region, so it's
not fragmented any more.

Fancier (generational) schemes use mixed copying and mark/sweep
strategies to gc recently created objects the most often, etc.

Just as with numerical linear algebra or sorting or alpha-beta search,
there are simple gc techniques that work ok, but getting really high
performance is a well-studied subject with a lot of literature and
lore about it.  I believe Andrew Appel wrote a book or survey paper
on it in the early 90's that you might like to look at.


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Mar 27 07:09:24 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 04:09:24 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<c429js$2ddf7r$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403270409.7252150a@posting.google.com>

"Daniel Ellison" <daniel at syrinx.net> wrote in message news:<c429js$2ddf7r$1 at ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> That's what I love about prototype-based languages: they're just so simple.
> Class-based language suffer from the meta-class complication ...

Sorry, but this statement makes no sense. Plenty of class-based languages
(Java, C++, early versions of Python, etc.) do not expose metaclasses to 
the user, so there is no metaclass complication. For what concerns languages 
that expose metaclasses to the user (such as Smalltalk, Lisp, Python), you 
must notice that you are not forced to use metaclasses. Also, it is 
unlikely that you will be in the situation of maintaining code using 
metaclasses and written by others, so there is no risk your brain will 
explode ;)

Metaclasses are intended as a tool for framework designers, not for the
casual programmer. It is true that as time passes they will probably becomes
more popular and more used (as I hope) but still 99% of Python code will
be written without metaclasses.

It makes no sense to say "look, Python was a beatiful and simple language
until a couple of years ago: now they have added metaclasses and it has
become a mess, I must switch to something simpler". All the code you
wrote before metaclasses is still clean, simple and still works!

I don't think Python has become significantly more complex for the
average user (actually I think it has become even simpler); OTOH,
it has become more useful for the sophisticated user.

What I like of Python is its layered structure: it can be used at
many levels and it is as good for the beginner as for the advanced
user. Most other languages are for beginners only or for experts only:
Python is for everybody.

Finally, just to conclude, I don't think metaclasses are that complicated; 
they just have a bad reputation ;)

                  Michele Simionato


From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Mar  6 17:41:52 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Mar 2004 22:41:52 +0000
Subject: Mailing list hosting?
Message-ID: <8765dhd2dr.fsf@pobox.com>

I want to set up a mailing list for web-client programming in Python,
but sourceforge has a problem setting up new lists ATM, and I've been
waiting weeks for them to solve it.

Anyone know a good alternative for free mailing list hosting?

Preferably one that has a web interface whose pages are reasonably
fast to load, and a decent search facility.


John


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Mar 28 16:59:55 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:59:55 GMT
Subject: Python as Glue Language
Message-ID: <40674ad7$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Hi Everyone,

 From the documentations, it did mention that python is a good glue 
language. What does it really means by "glue language"? Does it means 
interfacing between modules of different languages? How does that work? 
Because it seems that only C is mentioned in the documentations and I'm 
not quite interested to program in C unless absolutely essential.

Thanks
Maurice
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------
For a secure high performance FTP using SSL/TLS encryption
upgrade to SurgeFTP
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From myles at geocities.com  Thu Mar 11 19:05:40 2004
From: myles at geocities.com (Myles)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 16:05:40 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<mailman.273.1079016210.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<mcl6i1-i24.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <a4638b9b.0403111605.bad703f@posting.google.com>

Kyler Laird <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> writes:

> Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> writes:
>  
>  [Kyler]
> >> How do you cleanly do that?
> >> 	foo = range(-10, 10)
> >> 	my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
> >> 	bar = map(my_op, foo)
>  
> >foo = range(-10, 10)
> >def my_op(x):
> >    return float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
> >bar = map(my_op, foo)
> 
> Well, your solution depends on a global variable.

foo ? my_op ?
Doesn't the same apply to the lambda example ?

> 	def make_translation_function(GCPs, type, invert=False):
> 		if type == 'LSF' and len(GCPs) < 12:
> 			# Do lots of time-consuming magic to calculate A, B, ...
> 			return(
> 				lambda x, y: (
> 					x * A + y * B +
> 					x * y * C +
> 					...,
> 					x * G + y * H +
> 					x * y * I +
> 					...
> 				)
> 			)
> 		elif ... # Repeat lots of times for variations.

Isn't this just a more detailed example of the same thing ?
With a similar solution :

def make_translation_function(GCPs, type, invert=False):
    if type == 'LSF' and len(GCPs) < 12:
        # Do lots of time-consuming magic to calculate A, B, ...
        def translation_fn(x, y):
            return (
               x * A + y * B +
               x * y * C +
               ...,
               x * G + y * H +
               x * y * I +
               ...
           )
        return translation_fn
    elif ... # Repeat lots of times for variations.

Quick variation using working code:

def makefn(a, b):
    A = a*3
    B = b * 2
    def my_op(x, y):
        return (x*A + y*B, (x+A)*(y+B))
    return my_op

x = makefn(1, 1)
print x(2, 2)

Regards, Myles.


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sat Mar 20 03:24:56 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:24:56 +1100
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
In-Reply-To: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040320082456.GA7287@frobozz>

On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 04:06:27PM +0100, Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.

Twisted has a FreeBSD buildslave in its buildbot:

    http://twistedmatrix.com/buildbot/

As you can see, all but one of the 1214 tests are passing.  (Help with
figuring out how to fix it would be welcome, though!).

-Andrew.




From sdobrev at sistechnology.com  Wed Mar 10 12:45:41 2004
From: sdobrev at sistechnology.com (svilen)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:45:41 +0000
Subject: extracting order of class' attribute setting = statement execution
 or keyword assignments?
Message-ID: <404F5445.7070709@sistechnology.com>

hi.
this was named [hello. what about ordered dictionaries] but it is 
misleading.

i want to have the order of setting items in intrinsic dicts (keyword 
args, or class attributes, etc). which is, a prdered dict trhat 
matches the source-text sequences.

[ ordered dict is a dict that keep somewhere order of (the uniq) key 
assignments. i know i can do them as dict's subclass. It is slower 
than manual dict _and_ list handling, eh. (at python level, to c/++)]

why? i want to use python (syntax) instead of (monstrous) XML et al 
pseudo-languages (e.g. config file, hierarchical record / grammar 
descriptions etc).

[simplistic example]:
consider a logging record of 3 fields - time, user, IP - in this order.
it could be described as:
class LogRecord_Schema:
	time = str
	user = str
	IP   = str
and by whatever means i want to have these fields in this order, may 
or may not be a class.

Any simple python-parseable syntax is okay, as long it is not the clumsy:
LogRecord_Schema = [
	('time', str),
	('user', str),
	('IP',   str),
]

[eo simplistic example]


usages:
   * external:
   - anything Record-related (database, url, etc) may or does care
about order of fields, etc.
   * internal:
   - function keyword-args, class attributes etc. 'grammatical syntax'
generated dicts DO have an order as the python text is parsed 
sequentialy.
There's still no complete symmetry in python between list and dict, 
human provides a sequence in the source which is always lost in the 
dict (so clumsy lists of tuples are to be used instead).

for example, before, list( 1,2,3 ) did work, but dict( a=1,b=2,c=3) 
dod not. This was easily workarounded then by
   def dict( **k); return k
Now you dont need this anymore, but sequential mappings are a problem 
- there's no notion of order of any dicts used internaly in python - 
and they are used a lot, actualy any code-frame has (ordered!) array 
of variables that are later put into a dict - and the order is gone.
The frame.f_locals is that dict.

i've looked at exec/eval sources, they do rely on PyDict_SetItem() for 
the global and local dicts. i.e. if one makes class dictOrder(dict), 
no __setitem__ will be called, but the dict will be filled underground.

i know it is useful/faster not to care about order but one always can 
do so over an ordered dict, either accepting it ordered or skipping 
the ordering layer.
Or have ordering being turned on/off somehow.
Or just have frame.f_locals as the actual list of tuples...

no going to C/++ please, i know what to do there.

the only ways i find is parse by hand - either simulate execution, 
exec line by line, and store diffs in locals() in order, or use parser 
into ASTs and do something there. Latter one is safer but uglier. Any 
other ideas?

i wanted to share the idea - which is actualy from a long ago - that
the way people write things does matter ('way' here in all meanings).

Python already a lot to say here with using the
identation-as-scope/block-structure, why not about the sequence _when_ 
it matters?.

plz CC me if any reasonable reply, i'm not subscribed.

ciao





From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 29 10:19:09 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:19:09 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3@4ax.com>
	<c482r3$8hp$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <v2fg60l6oi786vcu18622ebn8nttqrotv5@4ax.com>

On 28 Mar 2004 21:49:07 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3 at 4ax.com>,
>Stephen Horne  <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>I missed that. There's good precedent - it's the Pascal 'with' block,
>>but better (the leading dot tells you that you're dealing with a
>>'with' item rather than normal scoping rules). But - well - just
>>recently, people keep telling me that indented blocks are purely about
>>control flow. I keep disagreeing, but no-one has bothered agreeing
>>with me so I was feeling rather lonely and miserable in this crusade
>>:-(
>
>Huh?  Where were they telling you that?  (I don't read all of c.l.py by
>a long shot, 'specially when I've just gotten back from PyCon.)  From my
>POV, indented blocks are about program structure and namespaces.  Saying
>that ``class`` refers purely to control flow definitely misses the point.

My replies were...

Message-ID: <euc160tp0l8hsts9l8rjvhgv3n6nhk0d81 at 4ax.com>

Message-ID: <j69b601d6m5uhjp7jc43fbcsu3jdj62pdb at 4ax.com>

I'm sure google can give you the full threads.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  2 13:05:01 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:05:01 -0500
Subject: time.sleep()
Message-ID: <c22icd$s8s$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Does standard C have anything like Python's time.sleep() function?



From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Sat Mar 13 10:33:25 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 07:33:25 -0800
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
References: <mailman.344.1079154269.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0403130733.4dd6d257@posting.google.com>

dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.344.1079154269.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> Thanks! Just one more favour.
> I want to sort the entries on this new dictionary.
> (Increasing order) and convert it back to a string
> where each values are not separated by , but by space.
> 
> ie. for example: I have a string s of the form
> index: value, index: value, index: value
> 
> I converted it to a dictionary by the method you
> suggested. I want to sort the entries now, with
> increasing order of index.
> 
> Once I have the sorted dictionary, I want to convert
> it back to a string of the form
> 
> 1 index:value index:value index:value
> 
> 
> Note, that 1 is added because I am creating feature
> vectors of the type "spam". index: value pairs are now
> separated by space instead of comma and finally I want
> to write this to a file.
> 
> The whole notion of making a string to a dictionary
> was because of sorting.
> 
> Can you extend this piece of code for the above
> objective. I will indeed be very grateful to you.
> 
> 
> import string
> 
> # define a test string
> s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
> # get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
> s1 = s1[1:-1]
> # split string at the commas
> s2 = string.split(s1,',')
> mydict = {}
> for item in s2:
>         a,b = string.split(item,":")
>         mydict[a] = b
>         print mydict[a]
> print "Dictionary is: ", mydict
> 
.
[snip]
.

Here is another approch:

>>> import string
>>> # define a test_string
>>> test_string='<item1:nothing, myitem:good, anotheritem  :
with_blanks   ,   and_so_on:empty       >'
>>> # define a function that strips off blanks
>>> strip_off=string.strip
>>> # define a function that splits at ":" and strips the resulting
strings
>>> split_colon=lambda s:map(strip_off,string.split(s,':'))
>>> # define a function the splits at ",", splits the result at ":"
and strips it
>>> split_komma=lambda s:map(split_colon,string.split(s,','))
>>> # Now apply your function on the test_string without "<" and ">"
>>> result=split_komma(test_string[1:-1])
>>> # Sort your result
>>> result.sort()
>>> # That's what you want
>>> result
[['and_so_on', 'empty'], ['anotheritem', 'with_blanks'], ['item1',
'nothing'], ['myitem', 'good']]
>>> # Create a dictionary of the result
>>> aDictionary=dict(result)
>>> aDictionary
{'myitem': 'good', 'item1': 'nothing', 'and_so_on': 'empty',
'anotheritem': 'with_blanks'}
>>> # Write your result in one line separated with blanks
>>> # First create formatted strings for "key:value"-pairs
>>> result_string_lines=map(lambda (k,v):'%s:%s' %(k,v),result)
>>> result_string_lines
['and_so_on:empty', 'anotheritem:with_blanks', 'item1:nothing',
'myitem:good']
>>> # Now print it in one line, separated with blanks
>>> print 1,' '.join(result_string_lines)
1 and_so_on:empty anotheritem:with_blanks item1:nothing myitem:good
>>> 

Hope this helps
Regards
Peter


From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar  8 18:33:41 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:33:41 +0000
Subject: Question on loops
References: <mailman.109.1078711865.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<e0bff448.0403080640.24f76dec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1078788820.46963.1@iris.uk.clara.net>

In message <e0bff448.0403080640.24f76dec at posting.google.com>, Daniel H
Neilson wrote:

> "Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
> news:<mailman.109.1078711865.19534.python-list at python.org>...
>> > From: Daniel H Neilson
>> > 
>> > i = 0
>> > for line in file:
>> >     if i == 100:
>> >         action
>> >         i = 0
>> >     else:
>> >         i += 1
>> >     process(line)
> 
>> If you're using Python 2.3.x
>> 
>> for i, line in enumerate(file):
>>     if i % 100 == 0:
>>         action
>> 
>>     process(line)
> 
> Beautiful. Thanks to those who responded. DHN

But be aware that the code falls through so that process(line) executes
every loop whereas it doesn't in your original example.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From michael at foord.net  Wed Mar 24 03:26:26 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 00:26:26 -0800
Subject: Path Module and Py2exe
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403240026.62c51fab@posting.google.com>

Has anyone succesfully used py2exe with the (excellent) path module by
Jason Orendorff ?

I use it regularly but tried to 'bundle' one of my applications that
used it with py2exe last night. It failed with a 'maximum recursion
depth' error in module finder - the full error report is below. It's
obviously got some kind of 'cylical' error in the module importing
code - which it isn't catching. I finally managed to isolate path as
the source of the problem.

A simple script that imports path and just prints path.getcwd() fails
with the same error when I try to 'compile' it (I know, I know..)
using py2exe.

Unfortunately - if unresolvable - this will stop me using the module.

I wondered if anyone had seen this before, or had any suggestions as
to how to overcome this ?

>>> running py2exe
*** searching for required modules ***
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "F:\Python Projects\test\setup.py", line 8, in ?
    scripts=["songbase.pyw"],
  File "c:\python23\lib\distutils\core.py", line 149, in setup
    dist.run_commands()
  File "c:\python23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 907, in run_commands
    self.run_command(cmd)
  File "c:\python23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 927, in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 187,
in run
    self.find_needed_modules(mf, required_files, required_modules)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 814,
in find_needed_modules
    mf.run_script(self.get_boot_script("common"))
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 112, in run_script
    self.load_module('__main__', fp, pathname, stuff)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 285, in load_module
    self.scan_code(co, m)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 342, in scan_code
    self._safe_import_hook(name, m, fromlist)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 300, in
_safe_import_hook
    self.import_hook(name, caller)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 124, in import_hook
    q, tail = self.find_head_package(parent, name)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 166, in
find_head_package
    q = self.import_module(head, qname, parent)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 255, in import_module
    m = self.load_module(fqname, fp, pathname, stuff)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 285, in load_module
    self.scan_code(co, m)
.
.
.
.
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 285, in load_module
    self.scan_code(co, m)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 342, in scan_code
    self._safe_import_hook(name, m, fromlist)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 300, in
_safe_import_hook
    self.import_hook(name, caller)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 124, in import_hook
    q, tail = self.find_head_package(parent, name)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 166, in
find_head_package
    q = self.import_module(head, qname, parent)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 255, in import_module
    m = self.load_module(fqname, fp, pathname, stuff)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 285, in load_module
    self.scan_code(co, m)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 342, in scan_code
    self._safe_import_hook(name, m, fromlist)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 300, in
_safe_import_hook
    self.import_hook(name, caller)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 123, in import_hook
    parent = self.determine_parent(caller)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\modulefinder.py", line 133, in
determine_parent
    self.msgin(4, "determine_parent", caller)
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>>> 


Regards,



Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Wed Mar 17 15:59:38 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:59:38 GMT
Subject: Handling geoTIFF files
References: <23ae7099.0403170210.540888cd@posting.google.com>
	<s9zvfl3oj89.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <r8rmi1-e4u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

>You might want to have a look at GDAL, a library for handling geographic
>raster data which comes with Python bindings: http://gdal.maptools.org/

GDAL is *the* thing to try.  Unfortunately there aren't Python bindings for
everything.  (I've been working with trying to use some Python libraries to
replicate GCP handling.)  Getting started can be overwhelming too.

If you post questions here with "GDAL: " in the subject, I'll be sure to
see them.  I'll try to dig up code samples for what you need.

--kyler


From axium at axiumcomputerservices.com  Wed Mar 31 03:03:00 2004
From: axium at axiumcomputerservices.com (Axium Computer Services)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:03:00 -0600
Subject: wxPython information
Message-ID: <106kuq6kvppf31@corp.supernews.com>

I just recently started trying to teach myself python and wxPython.  The 
python portion of that hasn't been much of a problem as documentation 
seems available and of good quality.

While I was working with wxPython I was beginning to think I was a 
little dense and missing something very important.  Then I started 
reading the thread about python documentation and in particular the part 
about wxPython documentation.  That made me feel so much better.  Anyway 
to get to my point I am looking for a good source of tutorials that go 
beyond those found on the wxPython site, website, book, or otherwise. 
The thing that really drives me crazy is that the tutorials don't do a 
very good job of explaining the components of a wxPython application. 
Currently I am trying to create a simple two pane window with each pane 
utilizing 50% of the window.  I did manage to find the wxSashWindow 
information, but it really seems to be lacking.

Anyway, any sources that could be provided would be much appreciated.

Steven Potter


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 00:01:08 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:01:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <4057C28E.92965723@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20040317050108.71682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>

But I am using gbcxterm, which displays Chinese very
well, plus, I think I can also input Chinese using
this terminal.  Then why do I still have this problem?

--- Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> 
> > I get the following error message.
> > 
> > [antony at ancho tmp]$ python snake.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "snake.py", line 6, in ?
> >     print a
> > UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
> > characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in
> range(256)
> > [antony at ancho tmp]$
> > 
> > What is the problem please?
> 
> The problem is the default encoding is Latin-1,
> presumably because
> that's the only thing your xterm/virtual console
> understands.  So Python
> is rightly complaining that it can't print the
> Chinese characters for
> you.
> 
> -- 
>  __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com &&
> http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> /  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W &&
> &tSftDotIotE
> \__/ In this world, nothing is certain but death and
> taxes.
>     -- Benjamin Franklin
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From randall at tnr.cc  Sat Mar 20 23:10:52 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:10:52 GMT
Subject: debian config not working
Message-ID: <gB87c.23542$1r6.7741@fe2.texas.rr.com>

My vim configuration is not working.  Here is my ~/.vimrc file.

set sw=4
set ts=4
set nobackup
set nowritebackup
syntax on
colorscheme murphy
au FileType python source ~/.vim/syntax/python.vim

colorscheme works, but some other things don't

sw=4 does not work, neither does shiftwidth=4
ts=4 does not work, neither does tabstop=4

When I crank up vim and type :set tabstop, it says it is set to 8.  I 
get no errors when starting up vim.  What's going on.  I'm about to pull 
my hair out.  I can manually set it within vim by :set tabstop=4. 
GRRRRRRRRRRR!  Anybody know when its not taking my settings from .vimrc? 
  Also gvim is not taking my python.vim file.

Randall


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar 10 20:43:49 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:43:49 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4vh2n.7ii.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-03-10, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
> print @(separator = None) x, y, z
>
> @x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function
>
> @f(x,y)         -- generator function that can accept new arguments
>                    with each call
>
> @x @y @z        -- short for instance variables in a method definition

> Each of these examples is debatable, but my point is that there are

    No, they're not.  You want Perl, use Perl.  I used it for 5 freakin' years
and have had enough of "and this line noise means THIS but only after that
line noise!"  I finally gave up when I read that they were thinking about
making case significant declarations.  #$%#$ that.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com  Tue Mar  2 09:16:18 2004
From: max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com (max khesin)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:18 GMT
Subject: Jython Debugger?
In-Reply-To: <4044435E.6090100@ziaran.org>
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<c21b0h$2re$1@newshispeed.ch> <4044435E.6090100@ziaran.org>
Message-ID: <SG01c.2924$Wo2.2041@twister.nyc.rr.com>

(forgive the simpleton)
How do you envision this working in Jython environment?

thanks,
max.

ziaran wrote:

> F. GEIGER wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for such a thing too. All I've found so far is an 
>> announcement
>> of an Eclipse plugin.
>>
>> Regards
>> Franz GEIGER
>>
>> "max khesin" <max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:jkL0c.94$c73.143227 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I was takling to someone who has been using Jython for a while. Their
>>> biggest complaint is the luck of a good debugger. I was really
>>> surprised. Isn't there anything decent out there?
>>> thanks,
>>> max
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> try rpdb.py
> you can get it at:
> http://ziaran.org/rpdb.htm
> 


From phipps.xue at sap.com  Thu Mar  4 05:11:15 2004
From: phipps.xue at sap.com (Phipps Xue)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:11:15 +0800
Subject: NT service (setting Description string)
References: <mailman.7.1078305889.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c26vc5$krf$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Where to get modules for WMT?

Phipps
"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.7.1078305889.727.python-list at python.org...
> >From: Thomas Heller [mailto:theller at python.net]
> >"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> writes:
> >
> >> Anybody know what variable I need to define in my
> >> class to set the long description that shows up
> >> in the Services control panel applet?
> >>
> >> _svc_name_         holds the short name
> >> _svc_display_name_ holds the long name
> >> _svc_?????_        holds the description
> >
> >There isn't any yet.  Apparently you have to call the win32 api
> >ChangeServiceConfig2() (but maybe it can also be done with the wmi
> >module).
> >
> >Thomas
>
> Haven't tried it myself, but the Win32_Service WMI class does
>  sport a Change method with the following signature:
>
>  uint32 Change(
>   string DisplayName,
>   string PathName,
>   uint32 ServiceType,
>   uint32 ErrorControl,
>   string StartMode,
>   boolean DesktopInteract,
>   string StartName,
>   string StartPassword,
>   string LoadOrderGroup,
>   string LoadOrderGroupDependencies,
>   string ServiceDependencies
> );
>
> All right; I did try it. It works:
>
> <screendump>
>
> ActivePython 2.2.3 Build 227 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, Nov 13 2003, 09:57:55) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import wmi
> >>> c = wmi.WMI ()
> >>> for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="dnscache"): print service.Name,
> service.DisplayName
> ...
> Dnscache DNS Client
> >>> service.Change (DisplayName="New DNS Client")
> (<win32com.gen_py.Microsoft WMI Scripting V1.1 Library.ISWbemProperty
> instance at 0x13968496>,)
> >>> for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="dnscache"): print service.Name,
> service.DisplayName
> ...
> Dnscache New DNS Client
> >>>
>
> </screendump>
>
> TJG
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________
>




From guille at iies.es  Wed Mar  3 12:54:51 2004
From: guille at iies.es (guille at iies.es)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:54:51 +0100
Subject: is that your beast?
Message-ID: <E1AyaZu-0003iQ-2f@mail.python.org>

your job? (I found that!)
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From wweston at att.net  Tue Mar 23 23:07:03 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 04:07:03 GMT
Subject: newbie question: data structure for book indexing
In-Reply-To: <c3pvu7$mgf$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
References: <c3pvu7$mgf$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <HP78c.12373$tY6.355865@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Peter Nelson wrote:
> I'm an editor without much programming experience.
> 
> What I want to do is write an application in Python to facilitate manual 
> indexing of books -- i.e. cardfile-type indexing by professional 
> indexers, not machine indexing.
> 
> Indexing apps I've worked with in the past basically replicate the 
> indexer's 3x5 index card file -- you add one entry at a time, then 
> "compile" the index when you're done.
> 
> What would be the best way to store and access this data? I'm thinking 
> that using a bsddb recno database might be simplest. But because the 
> index itself is ultimately a (very) sorted structure, would it make 
> sense to try storing the data in BTree format?
> 
> Would it make sense to design a Python class IndexEntry to mimic the 
> functionality of index cards, then store this in a db via shelve?
> 
> Any suggestions on where to get more info would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> PN
> 

Peter,
    If you use a database and index the columns you will be
searching on, I would think your performance will be acceptable.
    How to do your project depends on things like how many books,
how many searches, on what different platforms you want to run
on.
    If "everything is small", you could use a shelve. This would
be portable to any python capable platform and require no setup.
    If you hope to create the be all end all of book card filing
systems(and why not), you want a relational DB. You could allow
the user to enter the strings needed to access the DB. You might
even code the sql commands to create tables - making it as easy
as possible to get the system up for a new site.
    I'm not familiar with the DB you mention. I have used MYSQL
on DOS and linux with the same db and code.
    'hope this helps.
wes



From DoublemPI at netscape.net  Thu Mar 25 20:07:48 2004
From: DoublemPI at netscape.net (DoubleM)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:07:48 GMT
Subject: Inheriting Classes Across Files
In-Reply-To: <knK8c.1076$lt2.68@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <E6K8c.748$Dv2.185@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1066rp8nj7al3e1@news.supernews.com>
	<knK8c.1076$lt2.68@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <EnL8c.2122$I61.578@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Tina:
Instead of "import super_class", I think you need
"from super_class import base_class", or
"from super_class import *", or if you want to use "import super_class", 
then define the derived class as
"class derived_class(super_class.base_class)"

Mike

> Tina wrote:
> I tried that as I understand it. I'm sure I'm making a silly error in all
> this. Here is a simple example of what I'm trying:
> 
>   --- (File super_class.py) ---
> 
> class base_class:
> 
>   def sample():
>     return "Returned!"
> 
>   --- (File sub_class.py) ---
> 
> import super_class
> 
> class derived_class(base_class):
> 
>   def sample2():
>     return "Returned Twice!"
>   
>  --- (End) ---
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/tina/python/test/sub_class.py", line 3, in -toplevel-
>     class derived_class(base_class):
> NameError: name 'base_class' is not defined
> 
> 
> John Roth wrote:
> 
> 
>>"Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
>>news:E6K8c.748$Dv2.185 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>In my program I need derived classes to inherit from the super class.
>>>
>>>I can do this but I'd like to split the super class into it's own file.
>>>
>>>How do you do this? When I split the code I start getting errors.
>>
>>The module with the superclass has to be imported before
>>the subclass is defined.
>>
>>Be very careful you don't get into an import loop.
>>That way lies madness.
>>
>>John Roth
>>
> 


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 21 19:47:42 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:47:42 GMT
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc5sc8c.qbu.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c3k8m2$28mtia$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>, Jon Perez wrote:
>> Really?  I'm sorry, I have just a tiny bit of difficulty believing that,
>> considering all the stories i've heard about Java not being completely
>> cross-platform and cross-version.  I am sure that simple cases work as
>> you describe, but I'd like a cite for Java working as you describe in
>> general.
> 
> Yes.  Java works like that and has for a long time already.  One of the
> most notable examples i can give is the SVG viewer Batik (not a trivial
> program).  Worked liked a charm on both Linux and Win32, and it does not
> rely on an exact JRE on which it will run on properly.  Virtually all
> the Swing apps you can try out will work just as reliably and identically
> on different platforms as Batik.

This has not been remotely my experience.  Recently I tried 5 different
Linux JVM's for one program, leaving the Sun JRE until last because it
was a bit harder to install, and only the Sun one worked.

When a program *does* work right on multiple JVM's (Limewire, for
instance), I attribute it to the skill of the packagers.  The Limewire
team obviously put a lot of effort into that, just by looking at the
number of downloads and installers on their page.

Joe


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 15:27:47 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:27:47 -0800
Subject: Python & Optical Mark Recognition
In-Reply-To: <A4ednU9SGbNJW_ndRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
References: <A4ednU9SGbNJW_ndRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c44oa3$ed$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Anybody out there done anything with Optical
> Mark Recognition (OMR)?  I have a potential project
> that requires OMR add-in for existing Windows
> based Python application.

Perhaps you mean Optical Character Recognition (OCR).  There are various 
free packages for OCR in languages other than Python.  Here's one in C 
that includes source:
http://www.codeproject.com/dotnet/simple_ocr.asp

Get a copy of SWIG, wrap it up, and you should be good to go.

  - Josiah


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 26 13:15:57 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:15:57 -0700
Subject: import a modified module
References: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
	<mailman.438.1080272287.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5fs8601oef2glokd0i8tbbvso84rrjdku5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:38:00 -0700, Ken Godee <ken at perfect-image.com>
wrote:

>myang wrote:
>> I am revising a python module, and try it in python shell. Each time after
>> the module is modified, how can I import the new module? I remember there is
>> an "import" like staff to do it, but dont know its name clearly. I was not
>> able to google out it, and the huge bulk of python documentation is
>> fearsome. :(

I've found the best intro is the Python Tutorial at
http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

Then, if you want a more thorough introduction, I would recommend
Learning Python, 2nd ed., Mark Lutz & David Ascher.


>you want to reload the modified module without
>exiting the interpiter?
>
>if so try
>
>reload(mymod)

The docs on reload are a little confusing.  I've written a piece at
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm

Your comments are welcome.

-- Dave



From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Tue Mar  9 03:03:27 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:03:27 +0100
Subject: curses bkgd problem
References: <404C9A46.4070206@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <404D7A4F.9090306@geochemsource.com>



Gandalf wrote:

> stdscr = curses.initscr() # Get standard screen
> curses.start_color()      # Uses colors
> stdscr.bkgd(' ',curses.COLOR_BLUE ) # Set background of the main window
> curses.noecho()           # Do not echo input
> curses.cbreak()           # CBreak mode: process keys immediately (no 
> ENTER)
> stdscr.keypad(1)          # keypad mode: parse control sequences
> stdscr.redrawwin()
> stdscr.refresh()
>
> However, it is displaying $ characters in black instead of displaying 
> a blue background full of spaces.
> This must be a problem with my bkgd call since this works fine:
>
> curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_RED, curses.COLOR_WHITE)
> stdscr.addstr(0, 0, curses.longname(), curses.color_pair(1) )
> stdscr.refresh()
>
Now I'm doing this:

def clrscr():
    global stdscr
    (maxy,maxx) = stdscr.getmaxyx()
    line = ' ' * (maxx-1)
    for row in range(maxy):
        stdscr.addstr(row, 0, line, curses.color_pair(1) )

which works fine except that the right side of the screen is still black.
It is a very clumsy solution. Any ideas?

  G





From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Sat Mar  6 09:31:49 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:31:49 -0500
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
References: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
Message-ID: <4049E0D5.2000504@cfl.rr.com>

I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
stored on disk.

the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
name appear in the browser DL window.

i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
have real name show in File Save dialog.

in essence i want to push the file name to the browser

Fred









From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Mar 22 05:37:59 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:37:59 +0000
Subject: values within quotes
In-Reply-To: <405ebd60$0$268$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <405ebd60$0$268$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <405EC207.3020600@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I looked on the web for this, but I couldn't find it.
> 
> I give my program commands like this: GET MODLIST
> 
> This is very easy to parse, I can just use .split() to because it has only
> spaces to seperate the different parts of the command. Now I want, for
> example, the following command: GET FILE C:\my docs\my file.txt. Obviously I
> cannot use .split() for this one, because it uses spaces in the filename.
> Common pc knowledge tells me that I should put the 'space-value' witin
> quotes like: GET FILE "C:\my docs\my file.txt".
> 
> So the big question is: What is the best way to parse such a string?
> 
> kind regards,
> 
> Guyon
> 
> 

Look at the csv module in the standard library.

from pydoc csv :-


Help on module csv:

NAME
     csv - CSV parsing and writing.

FILE
     /usr/lib/python2.3/csv.py

DESCRIPTION
     This module provides classes that assist in the reading and writing
     of Comma Separated Value (CSV) files, and implements the interface
     described by PEP 305.  Although many CSV files are simple to parse,
     the format is not formally defined by a stable specification and
     is subtle enough that parsing lines of a CSV file with something
     like line.split(",") is bound to fail.  The module supports three
     basic APIs: reading, writing, and registration of dialects.



HTH
Martin




From bscholln at mac.com  Fri Mar  5 18:49:15 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:49:15 GMT
Subject: Need a Progress Bar/Meter for Tkinter
References: <040320041859589376%bscholln@mac.com>
	<a7a67196.0403051452.fd284@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <050320041849150422%bscholln@mac.com>

> I wrote a simple progress bar widget for Tkinter a while ago I use as
> a replacement for the Tix.Meter . It looks and behaves mostly like a
> Tix.Meter widget. Here's the code:
> 
> ##############################file Meter.py####################
> import Tkinter
> 
> class Meter(Tkinter.Frame):
>     '''A simple progress bar widget.'''
>     def __init__(self, master, fillcolor='orchid1', text='',
> value=0.0, **kw):
>         Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master, bg='white', width=350,
> height=20)
>         self.configure(**kw)
>         
>         self._c = Tkinter.Canvas(self, bg=self['bg'],
> width=self['width'], height=self['height'],\
>                                  highlightthickness=0, relief='flat',
> bd=0)
>         self._c.pack(fill='x', expand=1)
>         self._r = self._c.create_rectangle(0, 0, 0,
> int(self['height']), fill=fillcolor, width=0)
>         self._t = self._c.create_text(int(self['width'])/2,
> int(self['height'])/2, text='')
>         
>         self.set(value, text)
> 
>     def set(self, value=0.0, text=None):
>         #make the value failsafe:
>         if value < 0.0:
>             value = 0.0
>         elif value > 1.0:
>             value = 1.0
>         if text == None:
>             #if no text is specified get the default percentage
> string:
>             text = str(int(round(100 * value))) + ' %'
>         self._c.coords(self._r, 0, 0, int(self['width']) * value,
> int(self['height']))
>         self._c.itemconfigure(self._t, text=text)
> 
> ######################################################################

> You can use the set() method to change the "value"; if you don't want
> any text inside the progress bar use the text="" option (default is a
> string like "75 %").

Thanks Michael, Much appreciated!

   - Benjamin


From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Mar 25 12:54:33 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:54:33 GMT
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
Message-ID: <t1F8c.14448$Xo6.9389@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

i need some advice.  i'm a back end programmer historically, but have 
been exploring python for webapps and enjoying it.

i need to build some simple Win client-server or standalone apps.

the result needs to look professional and attractive, and i need 
something i can get working fairly quickly with a modest learning curve.

i'm looking at wxPython, because that is a pythonic solution.  but i'm 
concerned about the scarcity of gentle introductory 
tutorial/documentation.  dialog editors/wysiwyg screen painters seem to 
exist but are at an early stage of development.

I contrast this with Delphi which is
a) inexpensive,
b) lots of excellent database-driven widgets (which i need),
c) very attractive,
d) very small footprint,
e) redistributable,
f) high technical quality,
e) much sample code,
f) integration with very solid free or very inexpensive databases 
(interbase, jdatastore, thunderbird),
g) excellent ide.
h) good documentation, user community

Good data-driven widgets combined with a good layout tool mean that 
simple apps can be easily created.  I might get something working in a 
couple of days.

only downside to delphi i see is the longer-term future of Borland's 
non-.NET products.  delphi.net just shipped.  python is a much cooler 
language than pascal (delphi) but pascal is not bad or hard to learn.

bottom-line: i suspect that i'll much more quickly get a good gui 
working with Delphi than with wxPython, and for little money to boot. 
Might be a throwaway in the long-term but no problem if it is cheap and 
easy.  My customer doesn't care either way.

any thoughts on this?




From randall at tnr.cc  Sat Mar 20 18:30:55 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:30:55 GMT
Subject: Need advice on choosing skills.
Message-ID: <Pu47c.69630$u_5.47406@fe2.texas.rr.com>

When I had been programming for a few years, I realised that as much as 
a love to learn, I can only explore and be proficient at a limited 
subset of technologies.  I explored different languages to use for 
general purpose programming including C, C++, Java, Perl, Ruby, and 
Python.  Of those languages, I chose to focus on Python because of many 
reasons including clean design, high productivity, and an intelligent, 
helpful community.  My choice was against the grain of popularity as C++ 
and Java are often touted as the 'Enterprise' languages.  One of my 
friends thinks I'm wasting my talent learning and using smallish 
technologies.  Example: "Why learn PHP, Python, GTK, ... when you can 
just learn Java".  J2EE, .NET, WebSphere, etc, are quite prevelant in 
the bussiness world and sometimes I question my choice to focus on 
Python because there do not seem to be many opportunities to use it in 
the business world.  I really love the language and enjoy programming 
with it much more than others, but should I be learning other 
technologies? J2EE? WebSphere?  I realize that I should use the best 
tool for the job at hand and that is not what I'm talking about.  I 
don't plan on writing a device driver in Python.

The big question.  In the limited time I have, what technologies would 
you suggest I learn and why?  I realize the question 'Depends' on many 
factors.  If it helps, I'm not money-hungry.  I simply want to be 
productive, help others with my skills, and make choices that are good 
for the computing world at large.

Randall


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar 19 12:14:49 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:14:49 -0600
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040319171449.GI1796@unpythonic.net>

Regular expressions are not a good tool for this purpose.

Here's one bad solution:

def permutations:
    raise NotImplementedException, "exercise for the reader"

def rxseq(seq):  # Return a RE that has seq[0] followed by seq[1] etc
    return ".*".join(seq)

def rxand(seq):  # Return an RE that matches each permutation of seq
    return "|".join([rxseq(p) for p in permutations(seq)])

This fails when one part can overlap another, for instance if
word1="aba" and word2="b", "ab" or "ba".

You could also use a bunch of lookahead assertions, something like
    (?=.*word1)(?=.*word2)
but you'll also come to regret this choice.

Jeff
PS If you liked these regular expressions and would like to buy more,
visit e-bay where I'm selling a RE that matches multiples of 3 base 10.



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar 24 13:07:14 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:07:14 -0000
Subject: Unit testing fundamentals (was: Python for large projects)
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.357.1080147061.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1063jii8nfs00a5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.357.1080147061.742.python-list at python.org>,
gabor  <gabor at z10n.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>(a more generic request: is there on the internet a webpage with
>something like this? one where they have some complex
>modules/programs/algorithms, and they show how to write unittests for
>them?)
			.
			.
			.
<URL: news:comp.software.testing > is the usual place to discuss such matters.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  3 15:21:22 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:21:22 -0600
Subject: function arguments passed by reference
In-Reply-To: <40463A7F.5090609@attglobal.net>
References: <40463A7F.5090609@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <16454.15938.991048.252345@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Marcello> I would like to know for sure if it is possible to pass a
    Marcello> value by reference to a function AND having it changed by the
    Marcello> function itself

Not the way you would in C++.  See:

    http://cgi.cse.unsw.edu.au/~cs3141/index.php?module=xarbb&func=viewtopic&tid=17

for a recent discussion on mutable and immutable objects in Python.

Skip



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sat Mar 20 11:59:01 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 16:59:01 GMT
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c3ht8l$tmh$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Kurt B. Kaiser <kbk at shore.net>:
> OpenBSD is unique among
> the BSDs because when you build a port it creates a package, which is
> then installed and entered into the package database.  That way you
> have full information on what is installed on your system.

Unique? Of course not. FreeBSD does so. I'll be very surprised if NetBSD
doesn't.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From randall at tnr.cc  Sun Mar 21 10:17:46 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:17:46 GMT
Subject: Need advice on choosing skills.
In-Reply-To: <nm97c.37843$PY.23041@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <Pu47c.69630$u_5.47406@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<nm97c.37843$PY.23041@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <umi7c.31116$1r6.23633@fe2.texas.rr.com>

Funny you said that.

I chose Postgresql about a year ago to use at work for several projects 
and have never looked back.

I started working with wxPython about 2 months ago and like it for the 
same reasons.

I built a website using Webware.

I'm looking for a solution for tying together PHP to a python backend. 
xmlrpc, soap , corba maybe.  Might twisted be good for this?

Thanks.

Randall

Robin Munn wrote:
> Randall Smith <randall at tnr.cc> wrote:
> 
>>The big question.  In the limited time I have, what technologies would 
>>you suggest I learn and why?  I realize the question 'Depends' on many 
>>factors.  If it helps, I'm not money-hungry.  I simply want to be 
>>productive, help others with my skills, and make choices that are good 
>>for the computing world at large.
> 
> 
> If your focus is on doing useful stuff, then learn things that will
> directly help you in that goal. For example, I would suggest a
> cross-platform Python GUI as a good next step. I chose wxPython myself
> because it can run and look native on Windows, Mac, and all forms of
> Unix that GTK has been ported to (which is just about all of the popular
> ones). I wanted to pick a GUI that would let me *easily* write
> cross-platform apps that would run on Unix, Mac and Windows, because
> there's a lack of quality open-source software for the latter two
> platforms. I rejected Tkinter because adding another scripting language
> underneath Python seemed a bit much, and I didn't find that Tkinter
> looked "native enough" on Windows. (I understand that it has improved a
> bit since I looked at it, but by now I've invested enough time in
> learning wxPython that I'll just stick with that.)
> 
> After learning wxPython, I'd suggest the Twisted framework as a good
> next step. (You could also very productively switch the order and learn
> Twisted first, then wxPython). As of the latest version of Twisted, it
> integrates nicely with wxPython, and the more I learn Twisted, the more
> impressed I am with how easy it makes it to do rather powerful things.
> 
> After wxPython and Twisted, if you still have time, I'd suggest moving
> away from programming languages and spending some time playing around
> wiht a good database like PostgreSQL. Beyond that, if you've still got
> more time, look into one of the Python-based Web frameworks. There I
> can't give you a recommendation, as I'm not too familiar with them
> myself.
> 
> Between Python, a GUI like wxPython, a framework like Twisted, a
> transactional database system like PostgresQL, and a solid Web framework
> like (insert your favorite here), you'll have a lot of quality,
> multi-purpose tools in your programming toolkit with which to build
> whatever application you might desire.
> 


From up209 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Mar 19 10:57:58 2004
From: up209 at cam.ac.uk (Umesh Persad)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:57:58 +0000
Subject: Python for Information Visualization
In-Reply-To: <3evl50d9hqjljl12diq1acb9te5fprmv16@4ax.com>
References: <c3et45$h8t$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<3evl50d9hqjljl12diq1acb9te5fprmv16@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3f5cn$o96$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Hi,
  Thanks for the reply. Processing is good for sketching,
but it might not be appropriate for handling large amounts
of data. I have data sets that are huge, and as such it might
choke. Also processing is in alpha stages, so I am not sure how
much I can rely on it for stability.

Umesh


Arthur wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:36:53 +0000, Umesh Persad <up209 at cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi All,
>> I am looking for a platform to rapidly develop
>>software for Information Visualization. Since
>>I am working in an academic environment, I want
>>to be able to develop applications quickly with minimal
>>learning and problems.
> 
> 
> http://mayavi.sourceforge.net//index.html 
> 
> And there other tools, besides, to work through Python with 
> the powerful VisualizationToolkiit.
> 
> 
>>I was looking to python as a solution. However, before
>>I jump right in, I was wondering about the capabilities
>>of Python for interactive graphical programming. I am
>>also using Processing (http://processing.org/) which is good
>>for quick visualization mockups.
> 
> 
> I am curious as to why Processing does not serve your needs, in full.
> 
> Art
> 
> 
>>Are there any packages for python that will allow me to develop
>>interactive applications quickly? Things like having the capability
>>to draw whatever shapes I want, changing the GUI to a custom look and
>>feel, support for mouse and keyboard interaction, and the capability to 
>>handle large amounts of data are important.
>>
>>Any advice in this regard would be most appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks for all the help!
>>Umesh Persad
> 
> 


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 19:46:23 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:46:23 -0800
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <donn-60551B.16462317032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <tyfn06f87xj.fsf at lxplus059.cern.ch>,
 Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:
...
> > The FOLDOC definition
> > 
> >   http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=weak+typing
> > 
> > which mentions things like
> > 
> >   int a = 5;
> >   float b = a;
> > 
> > to me doesn't have anything to do with weak typing, since the int is
> > correctly converted to a float.  I guess thay're calling it "weak
> > typing" because the cast is implicit.
> 
> Yes, and the more implicit type conversion a language does, the more
> likely it is to get it wrong (because what is correct depends on the
> programmers intention), therefore there is a greater likelyhood of
> getting the wrong result. Which is why I consider implicit type
> conversions to be an aspect of weak typing. (However, I have no
> problems with you not seeing it that way.)
> 
> If you don't call it "strong/weak typing", do you have an alternative
> name to describe differences in how "easy going" a type system is?
> 
> Consider the following table.
> 
> 
>             ML    Python   PERL
> 
> 1.5 + 1     No     Yes     Yes
> 
> "3" + 3     No     No      Yes
> 
> 
> ML is clearly stricter than Python, which is stricter than PERL. Do
> you have a name for this sort of strictness ?

I say "strong" as in "strong static typing".  Don't say "strict",
because "ML is a strict language" doesn't say anything about
its type system, it's about order of evaluation.  Haskell is
non-strict, but has strong static typing.

Speaking of which, Haskell's type system supports type classes
like Num (number), where Int and Float are instances of Num
that implement its "+" function.  I'm probably leaving out a
paragraph or two of the interesting parts, but the end result
is that 1.5 + 1 works.  Haskell is not weakly typed.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From rob at landley.net  Tue Mar 30 17:40:20 2004
From: rob at landley.net (Rob Landley)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:40:20 -0600
Subject: The cgi module is no substitute for a dictionary.
Message-ID: <200403301640.20114.rob@landley.net>

Ahem:

<gripe>

cgi.FieldStorage() doesn't give me a dictionary.  Instead it gives me 
something that pretends to be a dictionary, badly.

If it was a dictionary, I could print it and get a list the form entries sent 
back to me.  When writing code to parse preprepared forms (such as a credit 
card verification service returns), this is actually rather nice to be able 
to do.

</gripe>

Rob




From no at spam.com  Wed Mar 31 13:32:40 2004
From: no at spam.com (Didier Morandi)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:32:40 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
In-Reply-To: <du7ptatgr40.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<du7ptatgr40.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c4f2s8$1j1c$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Ville Vainio wrote:
>>>>>>"Didier" == Didier Morandi <no at spam.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     Didier> I do not read answers to questions I did not post, so I don't care
>     Didier> about "unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in
>     Didier> content".
> 
> So essentially Usenet should be a free Q&A automaton, where people
> post questions and Usenet fairies go around answering them? Everybody
> takes, nobody gives? I believe such service should cost you money...

Well, no. I should have said that I read questions about which I think I either 
know the answer or I can share useful experience with the poster of the question.

D.



From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Mar 11 22:51:12 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:51:12 -0000
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<mailman.275.1079017990.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1079063470.793313@yasure>

Quoth Oren Tirosh <oren-py-l at hishome.net>:
...
|> Now, why do you think such an extension would be completely useless? ;)
|
| Composition of regular functions is not too useful in daily programming 
| tasks but concatenation of stream processes is quite useful. That is 
| what makes pipes in shell programming so effective. 

Well, as you may know, function composition is heavily used in Haskell.
But I would agree that it doesn't sound very useful for Python.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From ralf at tecont.de  Fri Mar 19 18:15:55 2004
From: ralf at tecont.de (Ralf Muschall)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:15:55 +0100
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.136.1079633391.742.python-list@python.org>
	<480e9240.0403181909.741abfa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84k71gwhqs.fsf@tecont.de>

sewall93 at rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu (Jason) writes:

> Thanks for the help - I wasn't aware of the profilers avilable for
> Python.

You might abuse complex numbers for points (the lisp faq recommends
doing this), maybe it speeds things up.  You might even save time (I
did not try this, but hardware operations might be cheaper than Python
procedure calls) by doing complex products and ignoring the imaginary
part of the result just to get quickly at stuff like
p1.x*p2.x-p1.y*p2.y.

If you come from the lisp world anyway, you might try STk or stklos
(schemes with OO and Tk (or GTK) bindings).

Ralf
-- 
GS d->? s:++>+++ a+ C++++ UL+++ UH++ P++ L++ E+++ W- N++ o-- K- w--- !O M- V-
PS+>++ PE Y+>++ PGP+ !t !5 !X !R !tv  b+++ DI+++ D?  G+ e++++ h+ r? y?


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Tue Mar 30 13:21:58 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:21:58 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.116.1080653744.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.30.18.21.54.259563@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:35:20 +0100, Hugh Macdonald wrote:

> On 30 Mar 2004 05:18:58 -0800
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:
> 
>> 'Programming Python' has an excellent introduction.. so I started with
>> Tkinter thinking that when I hit restrictions I could move onto wx. I
>> haven't yet reached the point where Tkinter restricts me. Whereas
>> there are a couple of widgets missing from the standard distribution,
>> Tkinter *can* be used to make clean and modern looking interfaces.....
>> And the syntax isn't too gawky once you've climbed the initial
>> learning curve.
> 
> For me, the issue with TK is less the restrictions it imposes and more the way of writing it in the first place.
> 
>> > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
>> > 
>> 
>> Is this Linux only ? 
>> (pardon my terrible ignorance...)
> 
> Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...

It's false.
I'm developping a gtk program which run in both linux and windows.

lopster, a peer-to-peer sharing programs, it's developped with gtk, and it
runs on windows too.

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From jmiller at stsci.edu  Fri Mar 12 15:16:09 2004
From: jmiller at stsci.edu (Todd Miller)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 15:16:09 -0500
Subject: ANN: numarray-0.9
Message-ID: <1079122568.4018.7.camel@halloween.stsci.edu>

Release Notes for numarray-0.9

Numarray is an array processing package designed to efficiently
manipulate large multi-dimensional arrays.  Numarray is modelled after
Numeric and features c-code generated from python template scripts,
the capacity to operate directly on arrays in files, and improved type
promotions.

I. ENHANCEMENTS

1. Support for "from __future__ import division"

True division has been implemented for numarray.  This means that
modules that wish to use true division can also use numarray and
numarray division will work as follows: 

a. dividing any two integer arrays using "/" results in a Float32
array.

b. dividing two floating point arrays using "//" results in truncation
of the result as in:  a // b == floor(a/b).

2. C-coded array slicing

Array slicing has been re-implemented in C-code as part of the
_ndarray module.  This means faster slicing.  Thanks go to Warren
Hack, Chris Hanley, and Ivo Busko for helping debug a major refcount
error.

3. Decreased Ufunc overhead

Ufunc execution speed has clawed and scratched its way back to where
it was around numarray-0.5.  Improvements here included optimization
of the ufunc caching, smarter thread handling, and smarter support for
subclasses.  The ufunc caching is based on a simple 20 element table
for each ufunc.

4. Faster array creation from C

Code which creates NumArrays from C (including numarray itself) can
now do so faster because the API functions have been modified to do
the array __init__ inline rather than through an expensive Python
callback.

II. BUGS FIXED / CLOSED

See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=450446&group_id=1369&func=browse
for more details.

913781 Another memory leak in example in Chapter 12
908399 Numarray 0.7: "del a[1]" dumps core
899259 astype Int16 copy4bytes: access beyond buffer
895801 Buffer overflow in sum w/ 0-sized array
894810 MemoryError When Creating Large Arrays
890703 getnan() and getinf() failure
883124 and and operator.and respond differently
865410 Usage of __dict__
854480 Slice assignment of float to integer
839367 Overlapping slice assign fails
828941 Numarray: determinant returns scalar or array
820122 Linearalgebra2.determinant problem
817343 Sub-classing of NumArray inhibited by complex values
793336 crash in _sort.pyd
772548 Reference counting errors
683957 Adding certain arrays fails in Numarray

III. CAUTIONS

1. numarray extension writers should note that the documented use of
PyArray_INCREF and PyArray_XDECREF (in numarray) has been found to be
incompatible with Numeric and has therefore been deprecated.  numarray
wrapper functions using PyArray_INCREF and PyArray_XDECREF should
switch to ordinary Py_INCREF and Py_XDECREF.

WHERE
-----------

Numarray-0.9 windows executable installers, source code, and manual is
here:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=1369

Numarray is hosted by Source Forge in the same project which hosts
Numeric:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/

The web page for Numarray information is at:

http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/index.html

Trackers for Numarray Bugs, Feature Requests, Support, and Patches are
at the Source Forge project for NumPy at:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=1369

REQUIREMENTS
------------------------------

numarray-0.9 requires Python 2.2.2 or greater.  


AUTHORS, LICENSE
------------------------------

Numarray was written by Perry Greenfield, Rick White, Todd Miller, JC
Hsu, Paul Barrett, Phil Hodge at the Space Telescope Science
Institute.  We'd like to acknowledge the assitance of Francesc Alted,
Paul Dubois, Sebastian Haase, Tim Hochberg, Nadav Horesh, Edward C.
Jones, Eric Jones, Jochen K?pper, Travis Oliphant, Pearu Peterson,
Peter Verveer, Colin Williams, and everyone else who has contributed
with comments and feedback.

Numarray is made available under a BSD-style License.  See
LICENSE.txt in the source distribution for details.

-- 
Todd Miller             jmiller at stsci.edu


-- 
Todd Miller <jmiller at stsci.edu>




From timr at probo.com  Fri Mar 26 02:55:27 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:55:27 -0800
Subject: simple script using CGIHTTPServer?
References: <mailman.435.1080267234.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g7o7605bdjs6kj37tm6u8gk9i4c5i147er@4ax.com>

"philregion" <bob.ducharme at lexisnexis.com> wrote:

>Let's say I've got the following little script called test1.py: 
>
>print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
>print "<html><body>"
>print "<h1>Hello World</h1>"
>print "</body></html>"
>
>I want to run a script that takes advantage of CGIHTTPServer so that I
>can send a browser to http://localhost:8081/test1.py and see the
>results of the script above. What's the shortest such script that I
>need to make this work?

You don't need a script at all.  Create a directory called cgi-bin.  Copy
your script to that directory.  From the directory that CONTAINS cgi-bin,
run this:

   python /python23/lib/CGIHTTPServer.py 8081

adjusting the path accordingly.

Send your browser to http://localhost:8081/cgi-bin/test1.py.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar  5 06:39:49 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:39:49 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de><Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95><c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu><17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01><s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com><4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com><f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com><Yx3RAls/KDUL089yn@the-wire.com><6ubf401c2qtarfoa36m03572dprj0h9kkl@4ax.com>
	<4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.9.1078465677.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ktog40pldolvl1nccftd5up8ve3pub55d2@4ax.com>

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:47:35 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:
>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>news:4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv at 4ax.com...
>> Actually, I think this is rather ugly. The string 'method' still looks
>> like a 'function'.  We really need a 'join' method that takes a list
>> of strings as its 'front-door' object and the 'joiner' as its optional
>> 'side-door' input.
>
>A said in previous discussions, the second parameter of the join function
>is *any* iterable of strings, and not just lists.  Your proposal would
>either cripple or omit this generality, depending on whether you meant it
>as a replacement of or redundant supplement to the current
>joiner.join(iterable_of_strings) method.

I would make it a supplement and treat the issue of deprecation the
same as other string functions which now have a (redundant) method
equivalent.  Also, I would keep the same level of generality in the
new method.  If 'seq' is a sequence of strings (list or iterable), and
'sep' is the desired separator, we have now:
sep.join(seq)
and I would like to see an equivalent
seq.join(sep)

I just did a search on 'join strings group:comp.lang.python' and came
up with 1200 hits!  Looks like I need to do some research before
wading into these waters.  I'll post a new topic, if I decide to
pursue this discussion, since we are getting a bit off on this one.  I
would also like to see a 'map' method.  With 'map' and 'join' methods
we could greatly improve the readability of long sequences of
operations on strings (like Ruby).  Again, I need to do some research.

-- Dave



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Mar 10 22:12:00 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:12:00 -0300
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040311031200.GB2742@burma.localdomain>

[...]
> print @(separator = None) x, y, z
> 
> @x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function
> 
> @f(x,y)         -- generator function that can accept new arguments
>                    with each call
> 
> @x @y @z        -- short for instance variables in a method definition

That's great!! All of our problems are gone! I'm really excited
wondering about what we could do with $!! :-)

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 19:36:19 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:36:19 -0500
Subject: How to make this speed up
References: <mailman.142.1080683661.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qnkptauymdq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<106k205791m5b2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <qnklllhzwcc.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:

> In article <qnkptauymdq.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>,
> David M. Cooke <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>>Use numarray or Numeric, and use arrays for your points. Also, do you
>>need the distance, or will the square of the distance do? (that'll
>>save you a sqrt).
>>
>>import numarray as NA
>>
>>def distance_between_points(plist):
>>    # if plist was a list of N points in d dimensions, p is an array of
>>size (N,d)
>>    p = NA.asarray(plist)
>>    N, d = p.shape
>>    # dist2 is a (N,N) array of squared distance
>>    dist2 = NA.zeros((N, N), type=p.type())
>>    for i in range(d):
>>        dist2 += NA.subtract.outer(p[:,i],p[:,i])**2
>>    return NA.sqrt(dist2)
>>
>>This should be almost as fast as writing your own C extension (and
>>much easier...)
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> The "much easier" has me curious.  While I'm as insistent
> as anyone about Python's universality, this is an area
> where I see it with no advantage over C.  The simple-minded
> C homologue requires no memory management or dereferencing,
> at the source level, so it's as easy as C gets.  Are you
> simply observing that, when working in Python, any require-
> ment to introduce the machinery necessary for a second 
> language makes the problem not easy?  Or is there another
> comparison between the two that I haven't noticed?

Well, let me qualify: much easier for me, because
1) I have numarray installed, and am not worried about depending upon
it
2) I know how to use it efficiently
3) I don't have to look up the sequence API. For a C extension, I
presume if you're not using arrays (and lists instead), you'd be
mucking around with pulling things out of lists, and creating a new
one. I can easily imagine that code (with error checks, etc.) getting
to be a few hundred lines. I haven't tried, but Pyrex probably won't
be too much faster either, as it still has to index the lists.

A C extension written to use numarray (or Numeric) arrays will be
shorter and easier to write than the equivalent using lists. I'd first
evaluate whether the procedure I wrote above is "good enough", though.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From brojohan at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 17:58:36 2004
From: brojohan at hotmail.com (Bror Johansson)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:58:36 +0100
Subject: decimal point character
Message-ID: <c25nut$1p9kb2$1@ID-59332.news.uni-berlin.de>

Is there a way to 'configure' the built-in conversion function float() to
accept '.' (dot) as decimalpartdelimiter when executing in an
anglo-american-language environment and to accept ',' (comma) when executing
in a language environment where that character is used for the same purpose?

Is there a pure (=working in Windows as well as in UNIX) Python way to find
out what char float() accepts as decimal point in strings?

/BJ





From reneaguirre at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 11:24:21 2004
From: reneaguirre at yahoo.com (Rene Aguirre)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 08:24:21 -0800
Subject: Searching text in Excel, Word files
Message-ID: <18e22d94.0403030824.44f4c407@posting.google.com>

Hello everybody,

I would like to make a search script, sort of search engine, I need to
search keywords on excel and word files.

Does anybody knows how can I do this?

Rene


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 05:12:33 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:12:33 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4056c64d$0$3473$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.17.1079403162.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4056c64d$0$3473$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4056cd47$0$297$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> Premshree Pillai wrote:
> 
>>  --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
>> Premshree Pillai wrote:
>>
>>>> Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
>>>> strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily
>>>> bound
>>>> to a particular type.
> [deletia]
> 
>> The above returns a TypeError in Python, but not in
>> PHP, which is weakly typed.
>>
>> Get it?
> 
> The only two (or perhaps one and a half) languages you used as reference 
> were C and C++. Which you said 'Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is 
> strongly typed'. What has PHP got to do with it? How does PHP's typing 
> have anything to do with Python's?

It has... Both are dynamically typed.

> Typing in C and C++ is different to Python.
> 
> int c = 0;
> c = "fred";
> 
> No can do in C and C++.

int c = (int)"fred";

> c = 0
> c = "fred"
> 
> No problem in Python.

And then c + 4 will raise an exception.

> So just how is Python strongly typed 'like in C, C++, etc'?

You already had the answer -or at least part of- in this thread, but 
braindeadly dismissed it.

Bruno



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 03:36:09 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:36:09 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
	<ad052e5c.0403162339.28c3ba3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40580DF9.DC378E7@alcyone.com>

Dan Bishop wrote:

> # This shouldn't count, for obvious reasons.  But what the heck...

He explicitly restricted himself to not invoking "double-underscore
magic."  You can certainly make classes which don't constitute a
well-ordering, and you can certainly get bizarre behavior by relying on
the (arbitrary) ordering between types, but the only thing I'd be
worried about is such a circular ordering between types in the same
class.

> paper = ContrivedExample(0)
> rock = ContrivedExample(1)
> scissors = ContrivedExample(2)

I do like your example, however :-).

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ You and I / We've seen it all / Chasing our hearts' desire
    -- The Russian and Florence, _Chess_


From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar 22 13:47:10 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 10:47:10 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <mailman.172.1079731437.742.python-list@python.org>
	<87oeqpaqih.fsf@Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403221047.2db9a9a1@posting.google.com>

Holger Duerer <H.Duerer at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<87oeqpaqih.fsf at Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>...
> >>>>> "Raymond" == Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> writes:
>     >> Since the size of plaintext is only 2^53, can't I just
>     >> calculate all 2^53 md5 values in advance, and invert the output
>     >> of MD5Random to get MT outputs, then attack MT just like any
>     >> LFSR?
> 
>     Raymond> Change the plaintext line to read:
>     Raymond>         plaintxt = str(Random.getrandbits(self, 128))
> 
>     Raymond> Now, 128 bits of input space gets digested to 128 bits
>     Raymond> and then only 53 of those bits are used in to compute the
>     Raymond> float.  That should preclude the formation of an
>     Raymond> inversion table.
> 
> I don't know what getrandbits does exactly.  But if it uses the normal
> PRNG code, doesn't that mean that your plaintext still has only 32
> bits of entropy?  I.e. if you want to do an inversion lookup table,
> you would only have to calculate the 2^32 possible outcomes of this
> call and not all 2^128 theoretically possible ones?

genrandbits() pulls as many bits as requested out of the underlying
generator.  The Mersenne Twister carries 624 words of internal state
(about 20000 bits) so it is capable of supplying all the bits needed
for this application.

So, yes, the plaintext will span the 2^128 possibilities.


Raymond


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar 30 00:15:15 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:15:15 +1200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
>>     f = someobj.somemeth
>>     someotherobj.g = f
>>     someotherobj.g()
>>
>>   What does the "self" object inside the call to somemeth
>>   refer to then -- someobj, or someotherobj?
> 
> It refers to someotherobj.

You have a problem, then. This means passing functions around
is fragile. If you store one in an attribute of an object, it
mutates into something different when you get it back out
again.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 26 13:21:25 2004
From: nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com (calpolynate)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 10:21:25 -0800
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
References: <mailman.431.1080255513.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96fd272b.0403261021.294e624c@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.431.1080255513.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Sean Berry wrote:
> > Try the following
> > 
> > unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r').readlines() -- two steps into one
> > unsorted.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(string.lower(x), string.lower(y)))
> > unsorted.close()
> > sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> > sorted.writelines(unsorted)
> > soretd.close()
> > 
> > Your problem is that you are trying to use a string method on a list.
> > 
> > 
> > calpolynate <nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9 at posting.google.com...
> > > I'm attempting to open a file, read the lines, sort them, change any
> > > uppercase character to lowercase, and output to another file:
> > >
> > > import string
> > >
> > > unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r')
> > > L = unsorted.readlines()
> > > L.sort()
> > > L = L.lower()
> > > sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> > > sorted.writelines(L)
> > > unsorted.close()
> > > sorted.close()
> > >
> > > when trying to run, I get this traceback:
> > >
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "sort list.py", line 6, in ?
> > >     L = L.lower(L)
> > > AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'lower'
> > >
> > > Do I need to somehow convert the list into strings?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help!
> 
> I think he wanted the output to be lowercase, not just sorted
> case-insensitively (that's how I read it anyway). Try:
> 
> lines = [line.lower() for line in open('unsorted', 'r')]
> lines.sort()
> sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> sorted.writelines(lines)
> sorted.close()
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org

Yes Robert,

That's what I was looking for. Sean's worked too, but it sorted
without changing uppercase to lowercase, I should have been more
detailed in what I was trying to do.

How should I go about creating an exception for changing from upper to
lower? I.E., if the latter part of a line has a comment (#XYZ) and I
would like to keep those uppercase, what would be a good way to
implement that in with the existing code?

Thanks,

Nathan


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 00:13:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:13:43 -0800
Subject: queue for large objects, object references
In-Reply-To: <c4b96q$o5f$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <c4b96q$o5f$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <c4dk8a$4t$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Is the data transferred or only a reference?

Everything in Python can be thought of as passed by reference.  This 
will mean different things to different people, which is why you should 
look at these examples.


 >>> def funct(i):
...     i += 1
...
 >>> k = 8
 >>> funct(k)
 >>> k
8

The integer doesn't get updated, because integers are immutable.


 >>> def funct(l):
...     l = []
...
 >>> k = [1,2,3]
 >>> funct(k)
 >>> k
[1, 2, 3]

Pointing the name 'l' to a new list object, doesn't change the object 
that 'k' points to.


 >>> def funct(l):
...     l[:] = []
...
 >>> k = [4,5,6]
 >>> funct(k)
 >>> k
[]

The list only gets updated when you actually modify the list pointed to 
by the list named 'l'.


There are literally hundreds more examples I could go through.  I'll let 
you try to figure a few of those out.

  - Josiah


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 31 11:29:23 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:29:23 -0500
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <106lsh9h08hbrfa@news.supernews.com>


"Derek Fountain" <devnull at example.com> wrote in message
news:4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22 at freenews.iinet.net.au...
> I'm coming to Tkinter from Tcl/Tk. In Tcl I can get a variable in an event
> using the %<X> substitution mechanism. For example, I can set up a command
> like:
>
>  entry .e -validate 1 -vcmd "checkkey %d"
>
> knowing that the '%d' will be replaced by something useful - whether the
> entry widget has recieved an insert or deletion in this case. The checkkey
> procedure will recieve "insert", "delete" or whatever as its first
> parameter.
>
> What is the Tkinter way of getting that %d value?

It's in the event object that's passed as the (only) parameter
to your event handler. Everything you ever wanted to know
about the event is an attribute.

There are a number of very good references to Tkinter on
the first page of the Python Library Reference section on
Tkinter. (That's section 16 in the Python 2.3 reference)

John Roth




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Mar 26 15:16:06 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:16:06 -0800
Subject: sorting times
In-Reply-To: <4af8e6c7.0403241450.74350e21@posting.google.com>
References: <4af8e6c7.0403241450.74350e21@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40649711$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Matt wrote:

> I have an assignment that requires me to analyse the time complexities
> of bubble sort and quick sort.
> I don't want any help - but would like to know if people consider the
> following times to be 'normal':
Yup, might be.  Do what your professor asked, and look at the times as
a function of file length (try 1000, 2000, ... 10000), and plot the
results.  If everything is too fast to measure, increase the size a bit.

> I implemented both algorithms in C , as bubble sort used to take 8
> hours.
Actually, just use the python implementations for both -- you are
supposed to be looking at time complexity, not speed.  At suitably
smaller sizes, you'll still be able to watch your program finish.
-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 16:17:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:17:08 -0500
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZrGdnR9BRZRIfvTdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Olaf Meding wrote:
> Is there a way to tell PyChecker to "skip" a line of source code?  Or
> any other workarounds would also greatly appreciated.

(I don't know how to skip a line, but)  PyChecker has to be able to
import the code.  If you put the failing code in a function that
is called from a '__main__' section, rather than having all code
execute on import, it should solve your problem.

-Peter


From esuvs at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 19:53:44 2004
From: esuvs at yahoo.co.uk (David)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:53:44 +0000
Subject: Problem displaying images with TkInter
References: <c279qp$csq$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
	<c27b77$vb7$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c28j2o$bgp$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

Ok, that's working now. Thanks for the tip!

David

Eric Brunel wrote:

> David wrote:
>> Hi,
>>         I'm new to python so I'm probably making a fairly simple mistake,
>>         but
>> look at the example below. It simply displays a rectangle and an image.
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> from Tkinter import *
>> 
>> root = Tk()
>> 
>> c = Canvas(root, width=1024, height = 1024)
>> c.pack()
>> 
>> c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
>> mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
>> c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=mudPhoto)
>> 
>> root.mainloop()
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Now I try to modify it so that the image and rectangle only appear when I
>> click the mouse on the canvas. I use the following code:
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> from Tkinter import *
>> 
>> root = Tk()
>> 
>> def OnClick(event):
>>     print "click!!!"
>>     c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
>>     mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
>>     c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=mudPhoto)
>> 
>> c = Canvas(root, width=1024, height = 1024)
>> c.pack()
>> c.bind("<Button-1>",OnClick)
>> root.mainloop()
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> 
>> However when I click the mouse it prints 'click!!!' and draws the
>> rectangle as expected. However it doesn't draw the image! Does anyone
>> have any idea why this would be?
> 
> This used to be a FAQ, but I can't it anymore (anyone knows where it has
> gone?).
> 
> The problem lies in the fact that for some reason, the Canvas where you do
> the create_image does *not* keep a reference on the actual PhotoImage
> object. So this object disappears when your variable mudPhoto goes out of
> scope (i.e. at the end of your OnClick function), which causes its
> deletion at tk level. So when OnClick finishes, the canvas finds itself
> displaying an image that doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> The workaround is simple: always keep an explicit reference on all your
> PhotoImage and BitmapImage objects until you no more need them. For your
> particular case, this can be done via:
> 
> def OnClick(event):
>      print "click!!!"
>      c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
>      c.mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
>      c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=c.mudPhoto)
> 
> Turning mudPhoto into an attribute of the canvas ensures that it won't be
> deleted before the canvas is.
> 
> HTH



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 16 15:51:27 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:51:27 -0000
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <mailman.13.1079398001.742.python-list@python.org>
	<105cr4i7evg2gce@news.supernews.com>
	<105e3bgll8cpq23@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <105eq6fjrfub2e7@corp.supernews.com>

In article <105e3bgll8cpq23 at corp.supernews.com>,
Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net> wrote:
>In article <105cr4i7evg2gce at news.supernews.com>,
>John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
>			.
>			.
>			.
>>> What a pitty. Is there some project to document Tkinter?
>>
>>"Python and Tkinter Programming" by Grayson (Manning 2000)
>>is still availible. It's a bit long in the tooth, but it's still a very
>>good guide.
>			.
>			.
>			.
>'Couple of us were just talking about setting up a Tkinter
>mailing list and Wiki.  Should we?
			.
			.
			.
Well, we have:  see <URL:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss >
for details.

One of the first chores will be to twist the arms of the
usual suspects (Jeff, John, Fredrik, John, Tim?, ...) into
subscribing.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From E.Robert.Tisdale at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Mar  3 16:34:15 2004
From: E.Robert.Tisdale at jpl.nasa.gov (E. Robert Tisdale)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:34:15 -0800
Subject: Troll Alert: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming
 language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40464F57.3080203@jpl.nasa.gov>

Something that calls itself nobody wrote:

[snip]

This is an obvious troll.  Please ignore it.



From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Mon Mar 15 11:16:50 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:16:50 +0100
Subject: subclassing list and adding other variables ?
References: <4050d0df$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<c2qr32$j1n$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4055d6d2$0$295$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de news:
c2qr32$j1n$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> GrelEns wrote:
>
> > i wonder if this possible to subclass a list or a tuple and add more
> > attributes ? also does someone have a link to how well define is own
> > iterable object ?
>
> With lists it is the standard procedure of overriding __init__() and
calling
> the baseclass method:
>
> >>> class List(list):
> ...     def __init__(self, iterable, a):
> ...             list.__init__(self, iterable)
> ...             self.a = a
> ...
> >>> a = List((1,2,3), "abc")
> >>> a
> [1, 2, 3]
> >>> a.a
> 'abc'

thanks, so i supposed that this is a correct way to do :

>>> class List(list):
 def __init__(self, v = None):
  self.v = v
 def load(self, values):
  list.extend(self, values)
 def gets(self):
  return list(self)

>>> l = List(5)
>>> l.load([1,2,3])
>>> l
[1, 2, 3]
>>> l.gets()
[1, 2, 3]
>>> type(l.gets())
<type 'list'>
>>> type(l)
<class '__main__.List'>

BTW while i think i get it with the list.extend(self, values) which is i
suppose

super_class.method_from_super_class(my_current_instance, *ohers_args)

i feel quite unhappy with the return list(self) which for me is rather a
call to the builtin function list() upon the current instance , how could i
write this particular :

super_class.attribute_containing_content_of(my_current_instance)

also, which are the method to overwrite for a class subclassing a list to
automatically call the load() method if the list is empty ?

thx for your help.




From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Mar 12 00:03:25 2004
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 21:03:25 -0800
Subject: Python on Mac OS X doesn't have gdbm
Message-ID: <ef08387c.0403112103.33130dca@posting.google.com>

First off I know I can install the latest python from Fink quite
easily and it'll give me everything needed. But I'm trying to
distribute my python app to end users who don't really care (or know)
anything about Fink.

The default Python on Mac OS X is 2.3 but doesn't come with gdbm. Did
anyone try to get the source of gdbm and build it, and somehow built
the gdbm module for Python on Mac OS X? If so could you share a few
hints? It'll save me lots of time trying.

Thanks!


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 15:48:58 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:48:58 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <106eejmlf7ihe37@news.supernews.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872 at fed1read04...
> I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess I'll
> have to change that.
>
> I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in the
> language.
>
> Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

Thank you. That wasn't the impression I had picked up from
the third party discussion of the issue earlier.

John Roth

>
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
> news:106di86neu1qh4d at news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
> > news:v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021 at fed1read04...
> > > > although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use Prothon.
> > >
> > > Can you please point me to those reasons?
> >
> > Since I got into a minor flame war over them, including a
> > very snide and oh so superior response from one yahoo
> > who almost hit my killfile over it, I'll just mention that there
> > are ***very good***, that is ***extremely good***
> > reasons why the Python standard is to use spaces for
> > indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be
> > removed in 3.0.
> >
> > There are enough interesting languages out there to
> > investigate that I simply won't bother with candidates
> > that don't play fair with ***all*** the tools I use,
> > or that people I communicate with use.
> >
> > John Roth
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From deets_noospaam at web.de  Mon Mar  8 11:36:09 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:36:09 +0100
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2i7dq$tcr$05$1@news.t-online.com>

chads wrote:

> How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
> simple example?
> 
> union {
>    struct {
>       int size;
>       float time;
>    } var1;
>    struct {
>       char initial;
>       float time;
>    } var2;
> };

There is no direct equivalent to a union in python. The reason for this is
that python isn't as centered around memory-represantation as C is.

If you need a union-like structure to extract values from a memory-location,
you should look into the struct module.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  2 11:14:29 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 08:14:29 -0800
Subject: Modifying escape sequences in strings
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0403020814.283e64d6@posting.google.com>

I have been playing around with reading strings with embedded escape
sequences from files both using readline() and codecs.open() and have
a question.I create a file "test.txt" with exactly one line:
1\na\n\n2\n\n3

I then open test.txt and then read it using readline():
>>> input_file=file("test.txt")
>>> x=input_file.readline()

>>> x
>>> 1\\na\\n\\n2\\n\\n3
>>> print x
>>> 1\na\n\n2\n\n3

The readline has escaped the backslashes, so that they print
correctly. I tried to replace the double backslashes with single
backslashes to escape the "n"
>>> x.replace("\\","\")
	  
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>> 

How can I replace the escaped backslash with a backslash? I realize
that I can solve the problem by reading the file using
codecs.open("test.txt","r","string_escape") as suggested by Peter
Otten. I'm trying to do the same thing in different ways to better
understand Python

Sincerely
Thomas Philips


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  2 21:09:26 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:09:26 -0600
Subject: locale.getlocale() strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.02.23.07.35.88163@ifrance.com>
References: <pan.2004.03.02.23.07.35.88163@ifrance.com>
Message-ID: <20040303020926.GB13700@unpythonic.net>

Just as in C programs, the LANG and LC_* environment variables have no
effect until setlocale is called with "" as the second argument.

On my system:
$ echo $LANG
en_US.UTF-8
$ python -c 'import locale; print locale.getlocale()'
(None, None)
$ python -c 'import locale; locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ""); print locale.getlocale()'
['en_US', 'utf']

In Python2.2 on my system, setlocale() is called by rl_initialize() when
I run the interactive interpreter.
$ python -c 'import locale; import readline; print locale.getlocale()'
['en_US', 'utf']
this may explain the behavior you noticed.

Jeff



From gnupeaker at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 06:04:41 2004
From: gnupeaker at yahoo.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:04:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040322110441.55972.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>

> Good point. Though to me, it isn't that it's a pain
> for the compiler
> to search for the 'yield' - I don't care about the
> compilers pain. The
> problem is that *I* have to look for the yield and
> might not notice
> it.
You are not supposed to be looking for it, IMHO.
Generators follow the Sequence protocol and are to be
treated as sequences.  Thus, you should simply make it
clear in the
function-name/conventions/interface-documentation that
the function returns a sequence.  Whether that
sequence is implemented via a generator or not is an
implementation detail.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 16:11:08 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 13:11:08 -0800
Subject: python & mysql probelm
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403261311.3444ddfe@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am having a problem executing following query:
cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
and '%s'"%(id1,id2))
But say if i have projectid's from 1 to 20 in database & if i give the
project range 1 to 2 then it gives me the result 1,2,11,12,13,14.....
When I execute this query in mysql i.e
select * from projects where projectid between 1 and 2,I get the
correct result.
I also tried doing 
cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
and '%s'"%(int(id1),int(id2))
but no success
What should I do??
Regards,
James


From ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com  Fri Mar  5 02:36:19 2004
From: ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 23:36:19 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
	<du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<abc4d8b8.0403040524.32aaf75f@posting.google.com>
	<c27lfc$5kq$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <abc4d8b8.0403042336.37ebfce2@posting.google.com>

Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote in message news:<c27lfc$5kq$1 at swifty.westend.com>...
> R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah schrieb:
> >    If you do *programming* without knowing what to pass to a
>  >    function
> > or what a function returns, you're a complete idiot as a idiot can be.
> > Moreover, if you take it as an argument against PHP, you're yet
> > another ignorant and obviously you don't have any rights to speak
> > about PHP nor anything.
> 
> Excuse me ... Does the life of your children depend on a friendly.
> reception of PHP?

   Sorry, I couldn't understand what do you mean here (My first
language is Tamil)

> I'm just searching a reason for your aggressiveness.

   No need to embarrass yourself by researching; I've already said the
reason. Did you read the thread actually?

> Never saw that in c.l.py.

   Might be some problem with your news server. Perhaps you should
read the thread first
<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=403fa54b%40news.zianet.com>
 
> Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

   &#2984;&#2975;&#3021;&#2986;&#3009;&#2975;&#2985;&#3021;

   HAND.

-- 
 From comp.lang.php
 "I don't believe in the God who doesn't give me food, but shows me
heaven!"--Swami Vivekanandha
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 15 13:54:03 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 13:54:03 -0500
Subject: import, functions, and threading
References: <c2rkgj$irh$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<359f85cd.0403141151.1546b5d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c34u4b$scu$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <359f85cd.0403141151.1546b5d0 at posting.google.com>,
Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c2rkgj$irh$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
>>
>> There were some posts recently discussing whether it's poor style to put
>> import statements inside functions.  I recently got reminded that there's
>> one very good reason to avoid it: Python has an import lock that blocks
>> more than one thread from executing import statements.  Putting import
>> statements inside functions that might be called in a threaded
>> environment is asking for deadlock trouble.
>
>Just saw this on the week Python URL... anyway, an alternative that
>should be safer:
>
>somemodule = None
>
>def whatever():
>    global somemodule
>    if somemodule is None:
>        import somemodule
>
>I'm still not sure if it's entirely safe in all cases, but I think it
>is...?  Anyway, it allows for lazy loading.

Enh.  You've got an idea, but your implementation probably still has a
race condition.  And you're breaking "simple is better than complex".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From wfolta at netmail.to  Fri Mar 12 18:34:12 2004
From: wfolta at netmail.to (Wayne Folta)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:34:12 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <C46848FC-747D-11D8-9341-000A959CB2EC@netmail.to>

As others have pointed out, it's totally insecure, but I had to do 
something similar so did...

import string

unshifted = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'
shifted   = 'nopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLM'
rot13_table = string.maketrans(unshifted, shifted)

user = string.translate ('sjkeiulkje', rot13_table)
passwd = string.translate ('eorpoipoe', rot13_table)




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Mar  4 16:15:05 2004
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:15:05 -0700
Subject: [Numeric] why is Float32 incorrect for ufuncs?
In-Reply-To: <c280j7$hr9$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch> <c280j7$hr9$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c2868u$mae$1@sea.gmane.org>

Duncan Smith wrote:
> "Curzio Basso" <curzio.basso at unibas.ch> wrote in message
> news:404757b9$1 at maser.urz.unibas.ch...
> 
>>Hello everyone,
>>
>>I am a beginner with Numerical Python, and there is a thing I do not
>>understand in the behaviour of the ufuncs. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
>>
>>Why is the following not working?
>>
>> >>> import Numeric
>> >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32)
>> >>> a
>>array([[ 1.,  1.],
>>        [ 1.,  1.]],'f')
>> >>> a/=2
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>TypeError: return array has incorrect type
>>
>>If I use Numeric.Float64 as typecode everything works fine, but I do not
>>understand why is this needed.
>>
>>thanks for your help. curzio.
>>
> 
> 
> What *I think* is happening is that Numeric is converting the integer to a
> rank-0 array of type Int64 before division.  The consequence is an upcast to
> Float64 for the return array.  Look for 'Coercion and Casting' in the
> Numeric documentation.  Cheers.

Also look for "savespace", using savespace=1 will prevent upcasting when 
operating on scalars:

 >>> import Numeric
 >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32, savespace=1)
 >>> a
array([[ 1.,  1.],
        [ 1.,  1.]],'f')
 >>> a/=2
 >>> a
array([[ 0.5,  0.5],
        [ 0.5,  0.5]],'f')
 >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32, savespace=0)
 >>> a/=2
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: return array has incorrect type


-tim




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 17:54:44 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:54:44 -0600
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
In-Reply-To: <2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
	<2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <16457.1332.559268.412335@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> First: It is not possible. Let me cite some sentences from shred(1):
    >> 
    >> CAUTION: Note that shred relies on a very important assumption: that
    >> the filesystem overwrites data in place.  This is the traditional way
    >> to do things, but many modern filesystem designs do not satisfy this
    >> assumption.

    Bob> Somewhat OT, Mac OS X 10.3 is one of the operating systems where
    Bob> this assumption is false.  Files smaller than a certain size get
    Bob> automatically moved around on the disk when it makes sense to do so
    Bob> in order to reduce fragmentation.

I'm not sure I understand how that can work.  Suppose I have multiple (hard)
links to a small file named "small".  If the OS moves it around to reduce
fragmentation (implying it will have a different inode next time it's
opened) how does it efficiently track down and change all inode references
to it?  In theory it could keep a cache mapping inode numbers back to the
directories which reference them, but that could consume a fairly large
chunk of memory to maintain.

Skip



From llothar at web.de  Wed Mar 31 14:26:00 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 11:26:00 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403311125.52f0acf0@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw at powergate.ca>...

> 
> Go figure.  (And as I said this is an AMD 2200 with 512MB RAM, XP Pro.)

You and all others miss one important number: What a harddisk are you
using ?
A notebook with a 4200rpm has a much lower startup time then a
7200rpm. It is as strange as a 10 against 2 seconds for the same
program on WinXP when compiled with Borland instead MS Visual C.


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Mar  8 14:15:58 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:15:58 -0500
Subject: dynamic names
References: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>
	<c2gck2$1mu$03$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <uZMTAls/K/2R089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <c2gck2$1mu$03$2 at news.t-online.com>,
"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de> wrote:
>Val Bykoski wrote:
>>     tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
>
>Here you seem to miss an exec - the line should probably read like this:
>
>tot = tot + exec("L%s" % L)


Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> tot=0
>>> L=1
>>> L1=3
>>> tot = tot + exec("L%s" % L)
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    tot = tot + exec("L%s" % L)
                   ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

You mean

tot = tot + eval ("L%s" % L)


exec is a statement.


        Regards.        Mel.















































>
>--
>Regards,
>
>Diez B. Roggisch



From tim at zope.com  Tue Mar  2 10:50:21 2004
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:50:21 -0500
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
In-Reply-To: <oerfn164.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEAFJEAB.tim@zope.com>

[moving this from comp.lang.python to zope-dev; it really belongs on a
 Zope list, although schemes to change what pythonw does probably belong
 on python-dev]

[Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com>]
>> I've possibly narrowed a problem I'm having running zope as a service
>> on winxp pro sp 1 in that when started from a command line as:
>>
>> c:\zope\v27\lib\python\python.exe \
         c:\zope\v27\lib\python\zope\startup\run.py -C \
         c:\zope\v27\instance\etc\zope.conf

[tim inserted backslashes above, to make the line structure clear]

>> it starts up just fine (although now running from the console).
>>
>> But when I start it with:
>>
>> c:\zope\v27\lib\python\pythonw.exe \
         c:\zope\v27\lib\python\zope\startup\run.py -C \
         c:\zope\v27\instance\etc\zope.conf
>>
>> it dies after about 30 seconds.
>>
>> It wouldn't surprise me that I'm doing something it doesn't like (I'm
>> spawning additional processes from within a product but it worked
>> fine with 2.5),

It's unclear what "it" means, in "it wworked fine with 2.5".  For example,
do you mean that the second command line, using pythonw.exe explicitly from
a DOS box worked fine, or do you mean that running Zope as a service on XP
Pro SP1 worked fine, or ...?

>> but I'm somewhat at a loss as to debugging it in> that when run as a
>> console app it works fine, but when run windowless it doesn't.

Did you look in your Zope log file(s) for tracebacks?

>> Do I have to write out check points to a file? or is there some way
>> to use Mark Hammonds process debugging tools?  Or is this a bug,
>> known or otherwise?

[Thomas Heller]
> It has been reported that writing to the original sys.stdout (and
> maybe also sys.stderr) sooner or later raises an IOError when running
> pythonw.exe, unless these are redirected.  Could this be the problem?

It could, although I have no idea what WinXP does (and don't have access to
XP).  Here's a Python program to try:

"""
import sys
if 1:   # edit to 1 for stdout, 0 for stderr
    console = sys.stdout
else:
    console = sys.stderr

import traceback
tb = file('tb.txt', 'w')

try:
    i = 0
    while True:
        i += 1
        console.write('.')
except:
    print >> tb, "Died when trying to write byte", i
    traceback.print_exc(file=tb)
    tb.close()
"""

Under Win98SE, and regardless of whether it writes to stdout or stderr, it
dies when run under pythonw, and tb.txt contains this after:

Died when trying to write byte 4097
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "wr.py", line 14, in ?
    console.write('.')
IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

The point of pythonw.exe is that no console is created or inherited, and the
default stdin, stdout and stderr provided by MS C in that case are unusable
(although the output flavors can appear to be usable until some secret MS
limit is exceeded -- at least under Win98SE).




From jgentil at sebistar.net  Mon Mar 29 02:53:27 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:53:27 -0600
Subject: problems with MySQLdb
References: <mailman.480.1080426378.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.29.07.53.26.998334@sebistar.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:26:08 -0800, Michael wrote:

> 
> self.connection = MySQLdb.connect (
>                         host = self.host, user = self.user,
>                         passwd = self.password, db = self.db )
> 

Are any of the parameters perhaps lists or tuples themselves on accident?


::  Jon-Pierre Gentil
::  PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
::  Jabber: jgentil at jabber.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkBn1e8ACgkQOrVFmaIbww70JgCfcdx5iyPU7WSoePcnAT1bx/rS
b1MAnjqc5QBrQzLP9OXAG8Nkh60+tcHh
=sg0s
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From phipps.xue at sap.com  Tue Mar 30 03:11:55 2004
From: phipps.xue at sap.com (Phipps Xue)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:11:55 +0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4ba4d$i9g$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

pyGTK is also a good GUI frameworks but it's not available now for windows
platform. I suppose it's its most important shortage.

Phipps
"Hugh Macdonald" <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list at python.org...
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python
and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
>
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.
>
> Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed
to
> me
>
> GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
>
> Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
>
> Anything else?
>
>
> Hugh Macdonald
>
>




From mb at muenster.de  Mon Mar  1 14:34:09 2004
From: mb at muenster.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:34:09 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>

[Andrei <fake at fake.net>]

>In these cases I tend to use string formatting, e.g.:
>
>print '%s-%s-%s' % (1,2,3)
>
>As others have already pointed out, there are several other ways too, so
>making a new keyword for this doesn't seem very useful.

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make: I think this new keyword
*would* be extremely useful.

The general advice I received so far is: "roll your own writer object,
create a wrapper, do those string calculations yourself, then hand the
ready to print output to 'print' or some 'write' method.  'print'
isn't good enough for sophisticated use, there are many ways to format
your output correctly..."

I *know* there are many ways. The point is: many of these
"workarounds" only come into play because there *is no* built in
variant of 'print' that doesn't emit blanks.

Advocating the 'print statement':

Let's remember:

print_stmt  ::=  "print" ( [expression ("," expression)* [","]] 
    | ">>" expression [("," expression)+ [","]] ) 

- Obviously it *is* an important language feature: it even has its own
keyword.
- It's easy to use  and *scalable* (no parentheses, variable number of
arguments).
- readable: pure list of arguments.
- Its efficient, since it has its built in ways of transforming
expressions to output strings, processing one by one. No need to join
those parts first.
- As a language feature it's well documented.
- 'print statements' stand for themselves and are highly expressive
and self documenting. Understanding, copying and pasting relies less
on context.

In one word: Looks like a very pythonic feature to me. Very
attractive.

And I'd simply like to benefit from all of these advantages. 99% seem
to be ok and because of 1% bad we can't use it to the full.

Aside: And there even must have been a time where 'print' has been
considered important enough to fight a long battle about introducing
the "chevron" form ('>>')...

Don't panic:

Of course I'm not saying we should change the existing behaviour of
'print' in any way.

But:

On the other hand: introducing a new keyword like 'printn' or 'prin0'

- wouldn't break any existing code
- wouldn't introduce a change of language structure
- could be documented within a few sentences ("... behaves like
'print' but does not insert blanks ...")
- and my suspicion is that the implentation in C isn't much of a
problem.

It's just like having a variant of something we allready have with
slightly different semantics. And that's ok and exactly what we want.
And it's no problem because we'd have a unique new name for it.

As far as I can see there's much benefit and little costs.

Ok, then back to where I startet. Let me asked again:

"Can we have an additional 'print' statement, that behaves exactly
like 'print' but doesn't insert blanks between arguments?"

curious,

Martin



From bobx at linuxmail.org  Fri Mar  5 20:11:50 2004
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Robert)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:11:50 -0500
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
In-Reply-To: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
Message-ID: <DZGdnb63ZrzLuNTdRVn_iw@adelphia.com>

Chad Haynes wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a wxPython application that I want to create an executable from. 
>  Using py2exe produces a program that works very well, but the 
> appearance is slightly different than when it was run from the command 
> line.  The py2exe version is a little more bland.  Here are links to 
> some screenshots:
> 
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/dos.jpg
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/py2exe.jpg
> 
> I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?
> 
> -Chad
Here is a copy of the manifest I use with eclipse:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>
<assembly xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" manifestVersion="1.0">
	<assemblyIdentity version="1.0.0.0" processorArchitecture="X86" 
name="SWT.javaw" type="win32"/>
	<description>Standard Widget Toolkit</description>
	<dependency>
		<dependentAssembly>
			<assemblyIdentity type="win32" 
name="Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls" version="6.0.0.0" 
processorArchitecture="X86" publicKeyToken="6595b64144ccf1df" language="*"/>
		</dependentAssembly>
	</dependency>
</assembly>


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar  8 19:58:12 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:58:12 -0000
Subject: Looking for general info on Python
References: <mailman.139.1078784778.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104q5l4n1nogj3e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.139.1078784778.19534.python-list at python.org>,
Gary Braver <gary at fastlanenetworks.com> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>Looking for general info on Python and comparisons to other programming
>languages.
			.
			.
			.
<URL: http://www.python.org/ >
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 26 17:00:52 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:00:52 -0800
Subject: Fork+Timeout
In-Reply-To: <c40uq1$f48$1@news.web.de>
References: <c40uq1$f48$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <c429ci$ejr$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> do someone new how I can do the following?
> 
> I call a method which reads from a socket. So ... this method could hang
> forever and so my call hangs too ...
> 
> So ... I can not change the behavior of this Method, so I have to change my
> call.
> 
> I though by forking the call to this function and set a timeout to this
> call, so my program won't hang forever.
> 
> But I don't know how I should do this and if this is the correct/best way to
> do this.

Use non-blocking sockets.  Check out the asyncore module, or if you are 
feeling ambitious, check out Twisted.

  - Josiah


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 20:09:19 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:09:19 +0000
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>

On 8 Mar 2004 15:24:56 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>Here are the contenders:
>
>* One from Guido::
>
>      from .foo import
>
>  and ::
>
>      from ...foo import
>
>  These two forms have a couple of different suggested semantics.  One
>  semantic is to make each dot represent one level.  There have been
>  many complaints about the difficulty of counting dots.  Another
>  option is to only allow one level of relative import.  That misses a
>  lot of functionality, and people still complained about missing the
>  dot in the one-dot form.  The final option is to define an algorithm
>  for finding relative modules and packages; the objection here is
>  "Explicit is better than implicit".  (The algorithm proposed is
>  "search up from current package directory until the ultimate package
>  parent gets hit".)

My thoughts are that (1) if dots aren't obvious enough, use something
more obvious; and (2) if you don't want to count things, write the
number directly.

I'd suggest taking a tip from VMS path syntax. A VMS relative pathname
typically looks a bit like this (I appologise if this is slightly
wrong - it has been a long time)...

  [-----.dirname.dirname.dirname]filename

This, of course, just replaces counting dots with counting hyphens.
But what about...

  [-5.dirname.dirname.dirname]filename

Obviously mapping it to the importing context, that means putting the
location of the module to import in square brackets, using dots as
separators, and allowing negative integers (or a single hyphen) for
stepping outward.

For small numbers of outward steps, just repeating the hyphen may work
better so maybe that should be an option too.


I'm not so sure about the square brackets myself, but using hyphens
and/or negative integers for stepping outward seems like quite a clear
and obvious way to do it. Unless I'm making some stupid mistake, that
is - I confess that I've never used packages myself.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 13:37:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:37:19 +0100
Subject: python classes
References: <f2335$40475626$42a655ea$12158@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
	<c27mrt$kge$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<9f1bd$40476c26$42a655ea$13320@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
Message-ID: <c27t0v$fhn$05$1@news.t-online.com>

William D. Gill wrote:

> I could use default  id = None, name  = None, and have the constructor
> either name, id , or a "no info given" to determine how to create the
> object.

That's exactly what I'd do. An alternative would be to use factory functions
(which could be static or class methods), e. g.

class Customer:
    def __init__(self, **kw):
        self.__dict__.update(kw)
    def fromId(id):
        # look up data in db
        if notFound:
            raise InvalidCustomer(id)
        return Customer(...)
    fromId = staticmethod(fromId)
    def fromName(name):
        # look up data in db
        return Customer(...)
    fromName = staticmethod(fromName)
 
> which of the following is correct?
> 
> class MyClass:
>     def __init__(self, id=0000):
>         self.data = MyOtherClass(id)    # data is an object with name, id
> and other properties

I think this is an extra complication that gains you nothing. The only
exception would be that data would not be initialized in MyClass.__init__()
but lazily at some later point, a usefull pattern if for a significant part
of the MyClass instances you can get away with not initializing data at
all. You would then change MyClass as follows:

MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self, id):
        self.id = id
        self._data = None
    def getdata(self):
        if not self._data:
            self._data = MyOtherClass(self.id)
        return self._data
    data = property(getdata)


> class MyClass(MyOtherClass)
>     def __init__(self, id=0000):
>          #self.data.id, self.data.name, and other properties are defined
>          #in
> MyOtherClass and inherited in  MyClass

>From what you've shown so far it's not clear to me why you need MyOtherClass
at all. In Python, attributes come at practically no cost, just say, e. g.
myClass.departmentId = 1234. Therefore inheritance would only be useful if
you want to reuse methods. Just think of Python classes as if they
inherited from an infinite number of abstract base classes. A simple
example: in most cases you can replace a file instance with any object that
provides a write(str) method.

>> > 3) Can I make instantiation fail if an invalid customer number is use,
> and
>> > wrap the "a=MyClass(cusid=999) in an exception?
>>
>> You _should_ raise a custom exception (just derive from Exception) which
> can
>> be loaded with arbitrary information - in your example that would rather
> be
>> the bad customer id than the inconsistant MyClass instance.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand?  I don't want python to create an instance if
> given invalid data (i.e given an invalid id the db lookup will fail), and
> I want to raise an exception when this happens.

I suppose that was a mutual misunderstanding. Did you mean this by
"wrapping"?

try:
    customer = Customer.fromId(1234)
except InvalidCustomer, e:
    print e

That's fine with me (I read wrapping as making the Customer instance an
attribute of the exception)


Peter



From nlbsilva at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 12:38:36 2004
From: nlbsilva at yahoo.com (Norma Silva)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:38:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Shopping Cart
Message-ID: <20040308173836.89344.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,
I'm new to Python. I'm looking for a Python Shopping
Cart. Does anybody has one availabe for use? 

Thanks,
Norma.

 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Mar  1 14:12:30 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:12:30 -0300 
Subject: default print format for floats
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033836C8@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

beliavsky wrote:

#- By default, Python prints many floating point numbers with 17 digits
#- after the decimal place. I would like to make the DEFAULT 4 decimal
#- places. Is this possible?
#- 
#- For example, the code 
#- 
#- from string import join
#- x = [1.0,0.3,0.4]
#- print x
#- print join(["%4.1f" % y for y in x])
#- 
#- gives the output
#- 
#- [1.0, 0.29999999999999999, 0.40000000000000002]
#-  1.0  0.3  0.4
#- 
#- I want the simplicity of "print x", without so many decimal places.


You can inheritate and overload:

The code...

class MyFloat(float):
    def __str__(self):
        return "%1.4f" % self
    def __repr__(self):
        return "%1.4f" % self

a = 0.3
print "Just a float:", a
mf = MyFloat(0.3)
print "My Float:", mf

x = [1.0,0.3,0.4]
print "A list of floats:", x
x = map(MyFloat,[1.0,0.3,0.4])
print "A list of myfloats:", x

...produces the following output:

Just a float: 0.3
My Float: 0.3000
A list of floats: [1.0, 0.29999999999999999, 0.40000000000000002]
A list of myfloats: [1.0000, 0.3000, 0.4000]

Note that in the first two lines, we're using the overload of __str__, and
in the last to, the overload of __repr__.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
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From bryan.weingarten at mpgedit.org  Wed Mar 17 23:24:23 2004
From: bryan.weingarten at mpgedit.org (Bryan Weingarten)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:24:23 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
In-Reply-To: <dW86c.276999$jH.3590037@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<9k4i50dnfsi42gdr5rue1vnpq7gfqkanb6@4ax.com>
	<dW86c.276999$jH.3590037@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <40592477.2020100@mpgedit.org>

Nobody wrote:

> How 'bout this:
> 
> import string
> 
> f=open ('Bob.txt','r')
> 
> counter = 0
> 
> for line in f.readlines():
> 
>    word = string.split(line)
> 
>    for x in word:
> 
>       if x == 'customer':
> 
>         counter = counter + 1
> 
> print 'Found it ' + str(counter)
> 
> 
> 
> 
How about this?


How about this?

counter = 0
for line in file('myfile'):
     counter += line.split().count('customer')
print 'Found it', counter



or if the file is relatively small:

print 'Found it', file('myfile').read().split().count('customer')



From M.Waack at gmx.de  Wed Mar 17 19:07:25 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:07:25 +0100
Subject: how to "source" a file?
References: <4g56c.11369$MC6.9352@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <tq5ni1-ue4.ln1@valpo.de>

Mark Harrison wrote:
> Can someone give me a clue as to the best way to proceed?
> I'm trying various combinations of import, but with no success.

What does "with no success" mean? What have you done, what have you
expected, what happened?

Mathias


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Wed Mar 17 23:49:31 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:49:31 -0500
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
In-Reply-To: <20040317202152.624502206.eric@zomething.com>
References: <20040317202152.624502206.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <40592A5B.70005@zephyrfalcon.org>

Eric @ Zomething wrote:

> Groovy is a pretty good name, I think.  Python is pretty groovy.  Maybe Groovy will be pretty Java?
> 
> Anyone got any "Groovy" code examples?

http://groovy.codehaus.org/quickStart.html

(shameless self plug) I also wrote about it on my weblog:

http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_d7_2004_01_10.html#e451
http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_d7_2004_01_10.html#e452
http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_d7_2004_01_10.html#e456

Cheers,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From ville at spammers.com  Mon Mar 22 01:58:06 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 08:58:06 +0200
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "David" == David M Wilson <dw-google.com at botanicus.net> writes:

    David> Personally, I think for the meager benefit this new syntax
    David> brings, it appears to be a rather large and incompatible
    David> waste of time. With the exception of syntactic beauty, does
    David> this really add anything to

The current foo=staticmethod(foo) makes the Python 'staticmethod' seem
like a hack. Many users of staticmethod won't even need to know that
wrapping takes place. It certainly discourages people from using the
feature in the first place.

And when did syntactic beauty stop mattering?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From timr at probo.com  Tue Mar  9 01:30:57 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:30:57 -0800
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
References: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<onod401p4rjbe9kuu10q6518l93ds7rks3@4ax.com>
	<Xns94A5F27CA6E69GaylordOfKewaskum@209.242.86.10>
Message-ID: <71pq40duar6q51s6eq9lmic7t4miopddo4@4ax.com>

Walter Huf <hufman at cobalty.com> wrote:
>
>
>>   import msvcrt
>>   ...
>>   msvcrt.setmode( stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY )
>
>Now, what would I do if I want to do the same in Unix/Linux?

That operation is entirely unnecessary in Unix/Linux, so you'd do something
like this:

    import sys
    ...
    if sys.platform == 'win32':
        import msvcrt
        msvcrt.setmode( stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY )
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Mar  7 18:00:51 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:00:51 +0100
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <AtWdnQfh4-eW0NbdRVn-jw@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.85.1078631357.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<AtWdnQfh4-eW0NbdRVn-jw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <404ba9a2$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="paid-for-download.zip"
                        ^^^^^^
shouldn't that read    attachment    ?

--Irmen


From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 04:44:36 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 01:44:36 -0800
Subject: Newbie Formatting Question
References: <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680@news.teleline.es>
	<m27jxcphiw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403230144.258878f4@posting.google.com>

Heather Coppersmith <me at privacy.net> wrote:
>     >>> for x in range( 10 ):
>          f = '%20.' + str( x ) + 'f' # or f = '%%20.%df' % x
>          print f % 1.2

Try this:

>>> for x in range(10):
	print "%20.*f" % (x, 1.2)

	
                   1
                 1.2
                1.20
               1.200
              1.2000
             1.20000
            1.200000
           1.2000000
          1.20000000
         1.200000000

You can use '*' for both width and precision.

Cheers,

AdSR


From jylevy at pacbell.net  Tue Mar  9 00:19:58 2004
From: jylevy at pacbell.net (Jacob Levy)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 05:19:58 GMT
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] e4Graph 1.0a11
Message-ID: <2uc3c.7584$Q84.1402@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Apologies for two messages instead of one, but the URLs provided in the 
previous message were wrong. Here are the correct ones:

WHERE TO GET:

Downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/e4graph/
Homepage: http://e4graph.sourceforge.net/
Changelog: http://e4graph.sourceforge.net/changes.txt
Installation: http://e4graph.sourceforge.net/e4install.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 11:50:39 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:50:39 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>
	<mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <de6dnW6CZuRCa_fdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

anton muhin wrote:

> Maybe just start a wiki based on the current documentation? It shouldn't 
> be too difficult, should it?

What part of http://wiki.wxpython.org/ is not adequate?  ;-)


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Mar 11 10:06:46 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:06:46 +0000
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40507a4e$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <pev0505hq2uomt2882uvs6ccbfp212hd6q@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:40:14 +0100, Curzio Basso
<curzio.basso at unibas.ch> wrote:

>Radovan Garabik wrote:
>
>> because neither in mathematics people agree on the order:
>> a?b(x) == a(b(x)) or
>> a?b(x) == b(a(x)) ?
>
>Is this a joke or what?
>
>In mathematics people DO agree on the order:
>
>if a:B->A and b:X->B, then a?b:X->A and
>(a?b)(x)=a(b(x))

No they DON'T. Both notations are used. The notation (using
concatenation instead of circle to denote composition)

ba: x -> a(b(x)) 

is called diagrammatic order, and to be totally consistent we should
really write

x -> (x b) a

and is more often used in Category Theory (and close relatives like
Homological Algebra, etc. ) where you deal more with commutative
diagrams and the like and functions being applied to arguments appear
only very rarely.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Mar 14 23:29:48 2004
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Bill)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:29:48 -0800
Subject: random.random - Interpreter works, Script doesn't?
Message-ID: <105ac9sm9lvij49@corp.supernews.com>

Hello,
If I type the following code directly into the interpreter, it works. If I
run it from a script, it generates the following error. Can someone help?
Thanks!

------------------------

import random

for i in range(10):
    x = random.random()
    print x

------------------------

TypeError: 'module' object is not callable


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 11 19:46:53 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:46:53 +0200
Subject: Start and control an extern program
In-Reply-To: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4051087D.1050409@zoran.com>

Hello Axel,

> I want to start an extern program  and simple stop it, after a
> given time, if not succesfull finished.  
> OS is Linux
Use a Timer object and os.kill.
Usually when a program exit successfully it's return value will be 0 
(the result of sys.exit for example)

HTH.
Miki


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 08:33:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:33:25 -0500
Subject: Python compiler -> py to C, py to ELF
In-Reply-To: <c4dvrh$kgh$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
References: <mailman.160.1080716941.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4dvrh$kgh$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <SPqdnVsygbI7VffdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Yermat wrote:

> fowlertrainer at anonym.hu wrote:
>> But have a python a compiler what can compile the complete project
>> into one ELF binary file ?
> 
> If you just want an exe file, also see py2exe 
> (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)

Unless something changed in Windows that I missed, it doesn't use ELF.

Py2exe, on the other hand, runs only on Windows (as should be evident
from its name).  I doubt it answers the OP's question.

Check here for something more useful: 
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/CreatingStandaloneExecutables

-Peter


From http  Sat Mar 20 20:45:29 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 17:45:29 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x8yhvnfba.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> > Why md5 instead of sha?
> 
> You could go either way.  Make the decision based on how many bits you
> need (128 should be plenty) for generating a single 53-bit float and
> then take into account speed considerations (MD5 vs SHA-1) and the
> time to generate the bits going into the message digest (it takes
> longer to generate 160 bits than 128).

I think it's best to stick with SHA, because of its longer hash,
because it's a US federal standard, and because MD5 is already known
to not meet its security goals (see Dobbertin's paper on finding
collisions in MD5's compression function).  Python has already screwed
up choosing its PRNG twice out of speed considerations, first with
WHrandom, and when that wasn't random enough, then with MT, which
still isn't random enough.  If we're selecting a PRNG for a third
time, let's stop cutting corners and take care of the problem once and
for all.  Even the very non-optimized code that I posted runs at
reasonable speed.

> > What's Random.random(self) supposed to do?
> 
> It's called subclassing ;-)

OK, I misunderstood at first what was going on.

> > But doesn't support all the operations specified in the Random API.
> > What's up with that?
> 
> Sure it does.  That is what the subclassing is for.  Again be sure to
> incorporate the two submitted revisions resulting in:

Yes, I understand now.  You're simply taking MT output and hashing it.

> > I'm missing something here--if you're just trying to avoid possible
> > cycles, why do you want to use MT instead of a sequential counter?
> 
> Either my version or your original requires something that generates a
> sequence of randoms from a seed (mine does it with MT and yours with
> s0=sha1(s0)).  The advantages of MT are proven properties, and it can
> more efficiently generate an arbitrary number of bits (thanks to
> genrandbits()) without the messy pure python code for extracting a
> byte at a time.  It was also nice to not have to override jumpahead(),
> getstate(), setstate(), etc.

But MT has no security properties at all.  It's equivalent to just
generating the whole output stream by hashing a sequential counter
with a secret seed.

> If you use sha1 for the base generator, you gain cryptographic
> strength to the left which is useless for your application (lottery
> numbers are selected in a way that is strong to the left and right,
> but no one cares about inferring last weeks numbers from this weeks,

No, I wanted cryptographic strength to both the left and right,
otherwise I would have just hashed a counter.  I do care about
inferring last week's numbers from this week's.  If you're playing
poker with someone, you not only don't want him to see your cards
unless he bets against you, you also don't want him to see the cards
you were holding in the last hand when he folded.  

See Bruce Schneier's paper on Yarrow for desirable PRNG criteria:

   http://www.schneier.com/paper-yarrow.html

> > Applying a collision resistant hash function to itself is a standard
> > construction for making a PRF and is the basis of HMAC.
> 
> Re-reading your sentence carefully, does it say that SHA-1 is
> collision resistant.  The design goal for SHA-1, of necessity,
> produces collisions for messages over 160 bits in length and AFAICT
> there are no citations showing collision resistance at 160 bits.

Collision resistance means there's no practical way to FIND
collisions.  Obviously it doesn't mean that no collision exists.  It's
just like in cryptography, you don't want the adversary to be able to
find the secret key.  That doesn't mean there is no key.

> > My guess is the reason you haven't found any publications specific to
> > SHA1 with this construction is that nobody has found any results
> > against SHA1.  As far as anyone can tell, the output is
> > undistinguishable from random.
> 
> I wish you would abandond this line of reasoning.  In security
> applications, proofs rule and the absence of published flaws means
> nothing (consider the case of Engima where the designers relied on
> "nobody has found any results against" their cipher).

In that case, where's your proof that MT feeding SHA is secure?  I
haven't even seen any assertion made that MT even preserves all the
entropy in the seed that you supply.  The only thing I've heard about
MT is that it passes some statistical tests and is guaranteed to have
a long period because of its large internal state.  For all I know, it
takes the seed the you give it and crunches it down to 32 bits before
initializing that state.  Maybe this question can be answered with a
detailed analysis of MT, but it's simpler if we can avoid the need for
such analysis.

> In this particular case, the finding a short cycle would not really be
> a major flaw; the function still meets its design goal of producing a
> message digest for a given message such that it is difficult to
> produce another message with the same digest.  A few known 160-bit
> collisions would not be an issue except for those exact 160 bit
> messages.  IOW, even if some collisions are known, don't expect to
> find a paper on it.

What do you mean by that?  Finding a collision in SHA would be a major
cryptanalysis result, like the result against MD5.  Even a
distinguisher (i.e. given N gigabytes of output, a way to tell, with
probability greater than 50%, whether it's SHA output or true random
output) would be a publishable result (there are now several such
results published against RC4 and so RC4 is now deprecated for new
applications).

Or do you mean that if a collision were found by a spook agency, then
we wouldn't hear about it?  That will be true of any function we come
up with.  At least in SHA's case, if the NSA finds some problem,
they'll probably advise us to stop using SHA (without telling us the
reason), like they did with SHA-0.  They sure won't tell us that for
some home-cooked function.

Anyway, the current version of the double SHA generator (which
incorporates a sequential counter into the input of the first hash) is
guaranteed to have no short cycles, because of the sequential counter.

Note that the MT-MD5 generator has a distinguisher after about 2**64
calls, because the MD5 call can see birthday collisions on both its
input and its output rather than only on its output.  So it will
repeat outputs slightly more often than expected.

> All of that is moot, MT is fast, subclasses nicely, is threadsafe, has
> proven distribution properties, and has a known (large) period.  Why
> not digest it and produce your shielded random numbers?  Or is is just
> a matter of being glued to your originally published code (which would
> be correct if collision resistance is known)?

I have no attachment to that code, which was provided as a sample
implementation--a real version should be much better optimized, and
maybe even written in C.  But I have to ask you the same question: are
you glued to MT for some reason?  I'm in favor of staying independent
of MT, for these reasons:

 1) I'd rather use primitives that were designed from the beginning as
    security primitives; and also to use as few primitives as
    possible, so that there's fewer parts to go wrong.

 2) The double SHA construction is surely easier to analyze for
    security, at least if we assume SHA meets its design criteria.  MT
    doesn't have any such criteria for us to assume.

 3) The PRNG's goal is to generate a reproducable sequence, and we
    should take that to mean that if someone wants to port an
    application to some other system, they should be able to generate
    the same sequence.  It's one thing to depend on SHA, which is a
    standard and available in lots of environments, but if MT is
    needed then its implementation needs to be ported, and its code is
    a mess.  I don't know if even Jython supports MT, much less
    whether any non-Python systems support it.  It's best to keep the
    generator simple and free-standing, that maybe can even be used as
    a standard.

Basically making the PRNG depend on a hairy and obscure function like
MT for no reason other than a little implementation convenience
strikes me as "worse as better" in a rather pure form.  If we decide
we don't care about "leftward" security, it's simplest to just feed
SHA with a sequential counter.


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Mon Mar 29 19:32:59 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 00:32:59 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b8ptboh4ig4a@corp.supernews.com>
	<87ptawf7rj.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>
Message-ID: <4068C03A.F5C5336E@doe.carleton.ca>

Charlton Wilbur wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "CL" == Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> writes:
> 
>     CL> Try 'em both briefly, choose one that makes a
>     CL> good impression, and get back to your engineering work.
>     CL> You'll be glad you upgraded to a 'P' language.
> 
> You, sir, have written a clear, fair-minded, and reasonable post.  The
> Backbone Cabal will be revoking your Usenet license shortly.
> 
> (I concur, by the way: Python has a couple of traits that would drive
> me, with close to 10 years of Perl experience, bonkers; but they don't
> drive everyone bonkers, and they obviously suit some people, or they
> wouldn't be in the language.  The OP ought to spend a couple weeks
> playing with each language and pick the one that seems to suit his
> style better.)

Well, it looks like trying them both out in the long term is in fact
what I'll be doing.  Thanks.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Wed Mar 17 23:40:51 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:40:51 -0500
Subject: how to "source" a file?
In-Reply-To: <Sx66c.11407$R27.11314@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <4g56c.11369$MC6.9352@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<Sx66c.11407$R27.11314@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <40592853.1020809@zephyrfalcon.org>

Mark Harrison wrote:

> Specifically, I'm confused why
> 
> def dfpostadd(name):
>     """per-unit postprocessing step"""
>     sys.path.append('/my/config/path')
>     import dfacommon
>     dfacommon.addm(name)
> 
> works, but this doesn't:
> 
> sys.path.append('/my/config/path')
> import dfacommon
> def dfpostadd(name):
>     """per-unit postprocessing step"""
>     dfacommon.addm(name)
> 
> which gives me:
> 
> msg=global name 'dfacommon' is not defined trace=['  File "<string>",
> line 341, in doadd\n', '  File "/usr/anim/config/ndfd/mark.cfg",
> line 55, in dfpostadd\n    dfacommon.addm(name)\n'] 

Strange.  Is there any code later on in the file that removes dfacommon from 
the module namespace?  Something like this:

   sys.path.append('/my/config/path')
   import dfacommon
   def dfpostadd(name):
       """per-unit postprocessing step"""
      dfacommon.addm(name)

   # ...other stuff here...

   del dfacommon

Or maybe some functions are extracted from the config file and the module 
itself is discarded, getting rid of the dfacommon global in the process.  In 
such cases, the first function works, because it imports and uses the module 
immediately.  The second function, however, depends on the name 'dfacommon' 
available in global namespace.  Normally this isn't a problem, but apparently 
something unusual is going on with the namespaces here.  I wonder how these 
config files are used/imported...

Cheers,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar 23 10:44:23 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:44:23 -0700
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org><c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <020c01c410ed$b6f83570$6500a8c0@YODA>

Piet wrote:
> >>>>> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> (JG) wrote:
>
> JG> I feel honour-bound to point out that citing static typing (explicit
> JG> static typing, in particular) as a means of creating more correct
> JG> programs, to be one of the greatest contemporary myths of software
> JG> engineering.
>
> JG> Static typing makes it easier for compilers to produce more efficient
> JG> code. That is the only advantage that static typing offers.
>
> JG> I am of the opinion that (explicit) static typing contributes to the
> JG> bugginess of programs.
>
> I would like to know if there is scientific evidence (rather than
> feelings/opinions) about the pro or con of this statement.

There probably is scientific evidence of this, but nobody has paid the price to
gather it yet. :)

Despite that, there is quite a  bit of anectdotal evidence to generally support
the ideas Jacek put forth. While not as "hard" as something derived from an
official study, it can still be useful in the decision-making process. It's
interesting to note that for the opposing view there doesn't seem to be much in
the way of scientific OR anectdotal evidence.

I'm not familiar enough with some of the more modern languages that use
explicit static typing to know if they offer other advantages beyond helping
the compiler be more efficient, but from experience I don't hesitate to say
that the explicit type systems of Pascal/C++/Java seem to do more harm than
good (meaning that if they provide some benefit, overall it's still a net
negative due to the extra burden they place on the developers). For large
projects in particular they seem to get in the way more and more as the project
increases in size.

-Dave




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  9 19:58:13 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:58:13 -0600
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <BsGdndiQc9Jp9dPdRVn-sw@comcast.com>

Have you completely investigated and eliminated ConfigParser?
I use it successfully all the time to do much of what you
describe.

-Larry

"Tim Daneliuk" <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:404E60A5.9010605 at tundraware.com...
> One of the things I find myself needing over and over is providing an
> external configuration file for use by my applications. For various
> reasons, I have not been satisfied with other solutions to this problem
> I have seen so far.
>
> So ...I am about 25% done with a new Python module I've wanted to write
> for some time. It is intended as general purpose configuration file
> parser complete with conditionals, variable substitution, etc. The idea
> is that you hand it the name of a configuration file, and it returns a
> populated symbol table, ready-to-use.
>
> Anyway, I am going to be looking for people to stress test this thing
> when it is ready. If interested, let me know _off-list_...
>
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
> PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/




From jmeile at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 04:10:21 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:10:21 +0100
Subject: creating lists question?
In-Reply-To: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <4062a1b5$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

spisatus wrote:
> I'm trying to create a series of list from a loop is this possible? Let me
> give you an example:
> 
> list1 = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]
> 
> for element in list1:
>   a = element
>   a = []
> 
> 
> I want a new list created for every element in list1, how can I do this.
> 
> Thanks!!
> Spisatus
> 
> 
> 
What's about a dictionary? It would do the trick as well:

listIds=["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]
lists={}
for element in listIds:
   lists[element]=[]

test=lists['aaa']
test.append('foo')
print lists

Regards,
Josef


From goodger at python.org  Tue Mar  9 09:25:04 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:25:04 -0500
Subject: optparse variable parsing?
In-Reply-To: <20040308232639.GB11572@unisrv.net>
References: <20040308232639.GB11572@unisrv.net>
Message-ID: <404DD3C0.8050207@python.org>

CJ Kucera wrote:
 > I'm wondering if it's possible to have an option with optparse
 > function as either a true/false option,

Often called a "switch".

 > or optionally use a supplied value when it's provided.

An "option argument".  The answer is no, optparse doesn't support
optional option arguments.  The main reason is that it makes a command
like "cmd -abc" impossible to parse reliably: is it equivalent to
"cmd -a bc" or to "cmd -a -b -c"?  In the Python tradition, optparse
chooses not to guess.

 > For example, let's say that I'm writing a util to add a user to some
 > system.  By default, the program would assign a random password:
 >
 > > $ adduser.py
 > > Assigned password: <blah>
 >
 > If the user specifies "-p", the program would prompt for a password
 > instead:
 >
 > > $ adduser.py -p
 > > Pass:
 > > Confirm:
 >
 > And then it'd be great to be able to pass in a hashed value and have
 > the program use that instead:
 >
 > > $ adduser.py -p\$1\$KgM/m2Ys\$.o0sbvwHddeKMCKJdfcMJ0

I would suggest that you should have two different options here, a
simple switch and an option which expects/requires an argument.
That's easier to document as well.

-- David Goodger




From stefano at stefanomasini.com  Mon Mar  8 03:51:36 2004
From: stefano at stefanomasini.com (Stefano Masini)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 00:51:36 -0800
Subject: win32com.client.Dispatch returns CLSID different than makepy
References: <80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951@posting.google.com>
	<8de75d53.0403051708.639a8080@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <80ef91b8.0403080051.34952368@posting.google.com>

> Out of curiousity, are you using ActivePython's distribution or Python
> + latest win32all ?

No. I'm using plain python 2.3 + latest win32all. Plus all sorts of
other python stuff of course, like wxwindows, py2exe, and so forth...
but, does it matter?
could there be some bad interaction?


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar  6 09:43:03 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 09:43:03 -0500
Subject: import vs from module import : any performance issue?
References: <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c2co1n$ahj$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
Pierre Rouleau  <prouleau at impathnetworks.com> wrote:
>
>Q3:
>It's my understanding that using the "from moduleX import whatever" 
>syntax in moduleA, all of moduleX code will run and only the name 
>"whatever" will be made available to moduleA.  What are the benefit of 
>using this syntax then, is it only the fact that you don't have to type 
>the "moduleX." prefix in moduleA?

Essentially, yes.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 15 19:55:04 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:55:04 +1100
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C638F@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Axel Boldt
> 
> is there a rationale for the following behavior:
> 
>   >>> a = (1,2)
>   >>> b = (1,2)
>   >>> a is b
>   False
>   >>> a = "12"
>   >>> b = "12"
>   >>> a is b
>   True

The implementation is free to reuse known immutable object if it desires. In CPython for example, small integers will be reused (-10..99 IIRC) and identical string constants will be reused. The empty tuple will be reused, but other tuples won't.

All this is entirely up to the implementation, which may do it for memory or performance reasons. You cannot rely on `is` for immutable objects unless you have explicitly bound the names i.e.

    a = (1, 2)
    b = a

Tim Delaney



From ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com  Mon Mar  1 05:00:15 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:00:15 GMT
Subject: Installing a python program without full distribution - minimal
	requirements...
References: <c1u6ri$25n4$1@cti15.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <PQD0c.18913$lS1.14901@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"jeuxal_com" <informlant at citenet.net> wrote in message
news:c1u6ri$25n4$1 at cti15.citenet.net...
Hi,

I need to add a python program (web updater+extras) with a window
application.
The same thing as the Online Lord of the Ring game
(http://lotrtcg.decipher.com/).
When you install their application, it create a subdirectory with very few
python files*.dll,*.pyd,*.pyc.:
<snip>
==========
Google for py2exe or McMillan Installer.  These utilities will zip your
Python code plus these needed dll's, etc. into a free-standing .EXE file.

-- Paul




From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Mar 10 19:42:24 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:42:24 +1300
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130564588A@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2B14@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> The difference is that @ not a 
> menagerie of symbols with various tricky meanings, but one 
> very noticable and unique symbol that says "Pay attention, I 
> am different."  It has no other meaning.

Well, I think if you asked most people, they'd say that the typical meaning
of @ is 'at'.  So it might make sense for something like "characters @
centre(string)" or something, but I'm not sure that many people would think
it meant "pay attention".

> Wouldn't it be nice, for example, if instead of special 
> keywords like 'lambda' and 'yield', we had used '@(args)' and 
> '@return'.  ( No, I'm not advocating we go back and change 
> what has been done.)  In both these cases, we had a 
> well-established syntax that needed a slight variation.  

The thing about "lambda" and "yield" is that they are easily understandable.
People see "yield", not knowing what the code does, and think "give" - and
that is what it's going - giving a value.  If they see "@return", what do
they think?  Lambda is less well understood, but well used in other places.

My 2c.

=Tony Meyer




From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Mar 23 16:48:16 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:48:16 GMT
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FB88A.12995153@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Ag28c.581$bm1.441@news02.roc.ny>

>>     * ZOE is apparently written in Python, never played with it. 
>>       Claims
>>       to focus on wireframes and particle systems.
>
> ZOE is indeed all-Python, using PyOpenGL.  It's designed to be very
> minimal (you could certainly do non-wireframe stuff but that's not what
> I use it for).  It's really a very simple engine designed to allow you
> to create objects that know how to display themselves, group transform a
> bunch at a time, and create particle system behavior.  It's minimal
> enough that I can run it without hardware 3D acceleration with decent
> framerates.
>
> I created it so that I could do visualizations with some of my own
> projects, and decided to release it since it's generic.
>


ZOE (http://www.alcyone.com/software/zoe/) looks really nice.



From theller at python.net  Mon Mar 22 12:03:36 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:03:36 +0100
Subject: py2exe icon resource on win98
References: <c3n561$m21$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ekrkddav.fsf@python.net>

Haim Ashkenazi <haim at babysnakes.org> writes:

> Hi
>
> I'm trying to build a binary with py2exe. I've used the method suggested in
> the py2exe wiki about adding icon resources to apps. it build ok on win2k,
> but when I try to build the same on win98 I get this error:
>
> copying C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\run.exe -> C:\My
> Documents\NS_Backup\dist\NS_Backup.exe
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Setup.py", line 13, in ?
>     windows = [
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\core.py", line 149, in setup
>     dist.run_commands()
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 907, in run_commands
>     self.run_command(cmd)
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 927, in run_command
>     cmd_obj.run()
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 197, in run
>     self.create_binaries(py_files, extensions, dlls)
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 391, in
> create_binaries
>     arcname, target.script)
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 577, in
> build_executable
>     add_icon(unicode(exe_path), unicode(ico_filename), ico_id)
> RuntimeError: MapExistingFile: The handle is invalid
>
> ----------------------------------
> I've attached my "setup.py".
>
> anyone has any ideas?

I assume you have unicows.dll installed (this is required on win98), as
described in the py2exe webpage.

The build process on win98 is not tested very good, maybe I overlooked
something.  Can you build your exe when you comment out all the icon
resources?

Thomas




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 12:41:04 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:41:04 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg@4ax.com>
	<10514avne47n787@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <u39150l2218blgkduajrrlsju7760sclpd@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:17:08 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>news:mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg at 4ax.com...

>> Wow!!  And I thought it was just me.  Could you point me to a PEP or
>> other discussion?  I would sure like to know the history of this.
>> Could it be that in adding "lambda calculus" to Python, Guido was
>> snowed by the language theorists? <half wink>
>
>There's a presentation on the Python site - go to Doc, then to
>Guido's Essay's, then to Presentations. It's called Python Regrets.
>Google has an HTML version if you use "Python Regrets Guido"
>as the keywords.

http://python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/6
Interesting that Guido says lambda is confusing. 

Interesting also that he is proposing two functions in place of
print(x,y,z):
   write(x,y,z)
   writeln(x,y,z)
This sounds very similar to Paul Prescod's proposal a few days ago on
this newsgroup, except that Paul is proposing to do it all with one
show() function.  I like the one function.

Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()

Thanks for the link.

-- Dave



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 15:23:06 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:23:06 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.469.1080393230.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <7xu10ddxie.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.469.1080393230.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c44o19$6m$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Wait, there is only a finite amount of porn in the world. I know, why not just 
> use the latests comments posted on Slashdot? That is an *inexhaustable* supply 
> of rubbish. Nobody would sift through all that, not ever for a MILLION dollars.

I have a feeling that the rubbish comments on slashdot aren'y very 
random.  Perhaps a pass through an entropy coder would be sufficient to 
make the perterbations good enough.

  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 07:33:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:33:08 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <4qet50hla2dna5g8gqcbbfj2tsmu3smkp7@4ax.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<4qet50hla2dna5g8gqcbbfj2tsmu3smkp7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hb6dnazJyf6ZQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:53:11 +0100, Marco Bubke <marco at bubke.de>
> wrote:
> 
>>are better but still I used to see [] as list
> 
> Surely it *is* a list - a list of modifier functions to apply to the
> original function.

If it's a list, then just as surely a tuple should be allowed in its 
place, as in every (?) other such case in Python that I can think of.
Would that be part of the proposal?  (I haven't read the full PEP, sorry.)

(I know, "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin blah blah..." :-)

-Peter


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 16 06:15:30 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:15:30 GMT
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3smg96o19.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:

> You have two options.  First, convert the string to Unicode and use code
> like the following:
> 
>     replacements = [(u'\xe9', 'e'), ...]
>     def remove_accents(u):
>         for a, b in replacements:
>             u = u.replace(a, b)
>         return u
> 

There must be some more high powered way of doing this... something
like:

def remove_accent1(c):
    return unicodedata.normalize('NFD', c)[0]
def remove_accents(s):
    return u''.join(map(remove_accent1, s))

?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  We've had a lot of problems going from glibc 2.0 to glibc 2.1.
  People claim binary compatibility.  Except for functions they
  don't like.                       -- Peter Van Eynde, comp.lang.lisp


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 21:18:59 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:18:59 -0000
Subject: Sermon on technique (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular
	niche)
References: <mailman.475.1080412762.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40661C14.8365E058@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106cdgj9nauhqcd@corp.supernews.com>

In article <40661C14.8365E058 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I realize that my inclination to write my own code sort of contradicts my want
>to springboard off of existing Perl code base.  I only had a vague idea of the
>benefits of this, since I don't actually program in Perl right now.  There are
>several points I've tried to determine the relevance of.  On one hand, I've
>looked at and hacked Perl code to get things done, so knowing Perl helps.  On
>the other hand I need a good way to repackage data for different applications,
>in which case I'll compose code from scratch.  For this, I would appricate the
>lesser pain and greater ease of Python (I imagine).  On yet another hand, I use
>Perl-based packages like the verilog-to-C++ translator, but I don't expect to
>delve into such a complicated package, whose complexity probably lies in more
>than just use of the Perl language.  Finally, and most vaguest of all, I have
>this idea that I might eventually be sharing Perl code, collaborating in its
>composition, or revising/maintaining it.  If "synergy" in that form is actually
>typical in my area of specialization, then of course it would make sense to
>start with Perl first, since that is the prevalent language in this area.
			.
			.
			.
One of the hardest things in science (and business,
and romance, and ...) is to deal with uncertainty
and incompleteness.  Yup:  you have countervailing
criteria.  Figuring out the true optimum is a bigger
project than the CAD engineering you claim as your
goal.  At some point--probably this weekend, from 
the sound of it--you need to make decisions, and 
move forward.  They might be wrong decisions, on 
narrow technical grounds.  Good scientists make
wrong decisions all the time.  Don't let 'em get in
the way of your science--that's all.

You've done a good job thinking about what you want,
and what's available.  Good luck with your combina-
torics.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 22 22:04:58 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:04:58 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3o7t9$29rm64$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <405FA95A.EE1C4629@alcyone.com>

"Brandon J. Van Every" wrote:

> Yes, that is looking like the task before me.  I haven't found 3D
> anything -
> app, engine, whatever - that is truly Python-oriented for its
> development.
> Python is viewed by the 3D world as a scripting language, not a
> development
> language.

Why is this the task before you?  Why do you care if a project using
Python is completely Python is written in C or C++ for the bits that
have to be optimized?  Why do you care how Python is viewed in the 3D
world, for whatever reason?

You've been "evaluating" Python for months and months now, though your
form of "evaluation" seems to be choosing arbitrary and useless criteria
and then demanding that people prove to you that Python meets them for
unspecified goals.  You make up your mind before you start (knowing
nothing about Python in the first place), then look publicly for reasons
that match up with your preordained conclusion, annoying people who
might otherwise have helped you along the way.  Hell, at one point you
were most of the way through evaluating Python for use with AI and
hadn't even considered whether Python had floating point support yet!

You keep dismissing Python but then bizarrely coming back to it.  Isn't
it about time to poop or get off the pot?  Pick a straightforward but
non-trivial project in Python and _do_ it.  All you're doing now is
running in circles, wasting your own time, and annoying everyone you
encounter in the process.

Python is a very easy language to use and learn, and it's very powerful.
Someone who claims to be fluent in C++ should have no problem learning
the fundamentals in an afternoon, becoming proficient in a week, and
becoming blindingly productive within a month.  So why haven't you?

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Time is a storm in which we are all lost.
    -- George Bernard Shaw


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Wed Mar 10 16:16:33 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 13:16:33 -0800
Subject: name of this python program
References: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <21064255.0403101316.3b52a086@posting.google.com>

leo <leo at bella.local> wrote in message news:<m2ptbl54u7.fsf at bella.local>...
> hi there
> 
> when i start a python script with 
>         python myprog.py 
> how can i find out the name of my script ("myprog.py") inside the script
> itself. looking for something like args[0]...
> 
> cheers, leo

try

print 'My modulname: %s' %  __file__

Will give you the filename of your modul.

Reagards
Peter


From soyyo at NOSPAMterra.es  Mon Mar 22 11:33:34 2004
From: soyyo at NOSPAMterra.es (.)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:33:34 GMT
Subject: Newbie Formatting Question
Message-ID: <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680@news.teleline.es>

Hi everybody,

I'm new to programming and new to Python.
I'm going through "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist", and 
am in chapter 11. (aside: what do you think of the book? any 
recommendations for other books?)

I have a question about an example of formatting in the book 
(page 120). There is a line that says:

print "%-20x %12.02f" % (student, wages[student])

I understand what's going on, and the example works fine.
I just don't understand what the 0 is doing in the %12.02f format 
specification. I thought it might be to force padding zeroes, but 
I get the same result with or without the 0. Also, %12.0002f 
gives the same result. Was this a typo, or is there something 
that I'm not understanding? 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ray


From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar  9 21:06:46 2004
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:06:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2lt7m$1fun$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:
: Hi
: I want to sort a list.
: My problem is:

:>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
:>>> a.sort()
:>>> a
: ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']


: But I am actually looking for an output:
: ['A','a','D','F','f']

: Is there any module to sort a list this way?


Hi Ketulp,


Yes, Python's lists do have a sort() method that we can use to do
sorting.  If you're like to learn more, there's a great Sorting HOWTO
by Andrew Dalke that should be helpful:

    http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sorting/sorting.html


Hope this helps!


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 12:11:30 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:11:30 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
Message-ID: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is there a way to
encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing the file, but
when the sting is used it's decoded? For example:

pass = "#$%^&@*#&*$^@"
instead of:
pass = "root-password"

Thanks,

Bart


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 15:45:58 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:45:58 -0500
Subject: difflib + object sequences
In-Reply-To: <m2brmntjmg.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKELOJLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Chris Green]
> ...
> I've narrowed this down to difflib.py ( both 2.3 and CVS's ) using a
> dictionary on the backend and hash(Misc(1)) != hash(Misc(1)).
>
> Is this expected behavior?
>
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=105470&aid=660098&group_id
=5470>
> shows some coments on objects inheriting a default __hash__ ret
> self(id).
>
> If I define __hash__ as return hash(self.val), things work as
> expected.  Now the question is, what should I log as a bug?
>
> The existing bug 660098?

It's part of the existing bug.  Old-style classes work the way a comment in
that bug report said they worked:

"""
...
to be usable as a dict key, an instance's class must either:

1. Implement none of {__cmp__, __eq__, __hash__}.

or

2. Implement __hash__ and (at least) one of {__cmp, __eq__}.
"""

It's a bug (bug 660098, in fact) that new-style classes didn't follow the
same rules.




From ken at perfect-image.com  Sat Mar 20 09:17:50 2004
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:17:50 -0700
Subject: DB module tutorial
In-Reply-To: <20040321030128.GA10458@mrna.tn.nic.in>
References: <20040321030128.GA10458@mrna.tn.nic.in>
Message-ID: <405C528E.9060508@perfect-image.com>

km wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Where can i find  PoPy  and psycopg tutorials ? 
> i googled but in vain --- 
> thanks in advance .
> KM
> 
> 
> 

most implement the Python Database API Specification Version 2.0.
so it's about the same for all the adapters.

psycopg comes with several examples to look at and I believe
there's also the start of a book too.

"The Python Database API Introduction"
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/database/RHDB-2.1-Manual/prog/c7205.html

Database Topic Guide
http://www.python.org/topics/database/




From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Mar 23 07:31:51 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:31:51 +0100
Subject: PEP318 yet an alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <opr5befdu435jo5o@news.gmane.org>

Python has the concept that names with a preceding underscores (__) will 
be mangled in some way. I suppose the "compiler"/interpreter does this 
name-mangling. Why not use the same concept:

def __static__theRealFunctionName(self, var1, var2):
     pass

The compiler will do some name mangling. The function is called without 
the __static__ part:

--> theRealFunctionName(3,4)


The advantages:

- Old code won't break (except if someone has functions starting with 
__static__).
- It is an already used concept for "private" variables --> they might be 
migrated to __private__
- well they even might be joined: 
__static____privat__theRealFunctionName(...)
- don't use it if you don't need it (this probably defaults to a 
__public__)
- The definition tells us what kind of method (class?) this is

The disadavantage:
- long names

Stupid idea? I guess so, but I am too stupid to see why?

Bye,

Marco




From dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG# at virgilio.it  Sun Mar 28 16:59:42 2004
From: dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG# at virgilio.it (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:59:42 +0200
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.28.21.59.40.454570@virgilio.it>

Il Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:59:03 -0500, Sean Ross ha scritto:

> # [7] :function_attribute:...
> def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
>         :spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
>         :url:"/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
>         "doc string"
>         body

> # [11] current method
> def foo(self):
>        "doc string"
>        very
>        long
>        body
>        ....
> foo.spark_rule = "DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT",
> foo.url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory") foo = publish_to_web(foo)

> Personally, I find all of this very off-putting. I find none of these
> proposals clean, clear, and/or readable, except perhaps [11] (which
> started the whole mess in the first place). I tend to agree with the
> following, somewhat out of context, remark:

Just look at those 2 above... They are almost the same, really clear.

My vote goes to number 7.

+1 for 7

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Linux User #310274, Gentoo Proud User
X Python Newsreader developer
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xpn/



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 04:24:15 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:24:15 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4056c1f6$0$308$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
>  --- srijit at yahoo.com wrote: > Hello,
> 
>>Try Traits
>>(http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Srijit
> 
> 
> Who says Python is not strongly typed? Python *is*
> strongly typed. The problem I am facing is that Python
> is also dynamically typed, and I want static typing.
> 

<half-troll>
Try Ada then !-)
</half-troll>

Bruno



From bsturk at adelphia.net  Tue Mar 16 21:35:44 2004
From: bsturk at adelphia.net (Brian Sturk)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:35:44 -0500
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cPadnfz5EftnJMrdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com>

> > I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and
> > about editing python with vim.
>
> Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
> vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
> docs, books or tutorials)

I don't have a tutorial, but I've written a quite large python script for
vim called vimsh.  It might be helpful for you as a reference:

http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=165

hth,
~brian

-- 
.--------------------------------------------------,--------.
| Brian Sturk - http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk \  C/C++  |
|-------------------------. bsturk<AT>adelphia.net | Python |
| http://www.telengard.com `------------------------`-------|
| Telengard Technologies Inc. - NT/*nix UI & device drivers |
`-----------------------------------------------------------'




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Mar  6 23:40:37 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:40:37 -0800
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
In-Reply-To: <87brn9d33n.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>	<2ae25c6b.0403021100.400af290@posting.google.com>
	<87brn9d33n.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <404AA7C5.3000803@mlug.missouri.edu>

Just don't do anything you need to think about with him around. He's a 
nice guy but he likes to stand behind you and ask about what you are 
doing. Really drove me bananas when setting stuff up for our Linux expo 
he was a speaker for. ( General rule: ask questions after the busy geeks 
are setup - not during. )

>If you come to the Python UK conference (part of the ACCU Spring
>conference), you may even meet him in person.  He's a keynote speaker
>in the Open Source event that's also taking place at the ACCU
>conference, but I imagine he'll be mingling with Pythonistas too.
>
>https://www.accu.org/conference/
>
>(the site is due for a significant revamp next week, so check back for
>more details on the Python conference and Open Source forum)
>  
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 09:45:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:50 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <405efb39$0$28151$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<8351bb33.0403220632.5becbc0c@posting.google.com>
	<405efb39$0$28151$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <zOSdnUkCqeeDYcPdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Peter Hickman wrote:

> Jon Nicoll wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
>>> The UK English phrase would be to "put on kid gloves" kid gloves 
>>> being very soft and gentle type of leather (supposedly made from 
>>> juveniles).
>>
>> er, I think 'supposedly made from [the skin of] juvenile _goats_ ...'
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Jon N
> 
> As they say, God is in the details.

God is a young goat?!


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar 22 11:43:08 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:43:08 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <mailman.228.1079953486.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xn069t5pr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-7692B5.08430822032004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <7xn069t5pr.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
 Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Eyal Lotem <gnupeaker at yahoo.com> writes:
> > You are not supposed to be looking for it, IMHO.
> > Generators follow the Sequence protocol and are to be
> > treated as sequences.  Thus, you should simply make it
> > clear in the
> > function-name/conventions/interface-documentation that
> > the function returns a sequence.  Whether that
> > sequence is implemented via a generator or not is an
> > implementation detail.
> 
> But that's bogus.  Python is dynamically typed which means that a
> normal function can return whatever it wants, sequence or
> non-sequence.  A generator function can't return anything, it can only
> yield.

I agree with Eyal.  A generator is a callable that, when called, returns 
an iterator of the items it generates.  The fact that it's defined using 
yield syntax instead of using return syntax is irrelevant to the caller.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  8 00:09:58 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:09:58 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> > What you have is what many other languages allow with integers after break or
> > continue statements.  For example you can do 'break 2' or 'continue 3' to
> > break or continue out of the respective number of enclosing for loops.
>
> Yuck.  Bletch.  Barf.

Care to expand on that?  It is a construct present in shell scripting
as an example  (Googling for "/bin/sh" "break 2" and "continue 2" shows
it in common use, and almost always in exactly the same type of code
OP mentioned and as I show below).

Here is a small contrived example of it in action

for line in lines:
    chars=line  # (contrived)
    for z in chars:
        if z=='!':
            continue 2  # char is special so go to next line
    print chars  #  or some other work

Here is how you conventionally write it without continue 2

for line in lines:
     chars=line
     sawspecial=False
     for z in chars:
         if z=='!':
             sawspecial=True
             break
     if not sawspecial:
         print chars # and other work

Note how at the important point you have to write 'break', despite
thinking 'continue' in your head.  You have to introduce a new
state variable.  As I said, this gets a lot worse if there are
multiple conditions in which you want to break/continue multiple
levels (more variables, more 'continues' where you think 'break'
and vice versa).

Roger




From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Thu Mar  4 12:08:45 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:45 +0100
Subject: Ast tree and python code
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1078353726.772.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1.1078353726.772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c27npo$78j$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Robert Brewer a ?crit :
> Yermat wrote:
> 
>>Does someone know how I can reverse an AST tree back into python code 
>>with few modification ?
>>What I want to do is to complete trees before writing them 
>>back but in a 
>>way not to far from the original code ? Especially, indentation, line 
>>return, etc.
>>
>>Of course, I could program it myself but if someone already done it...
> 
> 
> I don't know of a full implementation (someone else might?) but I made a
> start of it a week ago:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=mailman.219.1077
> 918544.8594.python-list%40python.org
> 
> Deriver.process() (inherited from Processor.process()) produces Python
> statements from an AST node; it's only simple expressions at the
> moment--no assignment, for example. Feel free to build on it.
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org
> 

Thank,
That's what I was thinking, I need to do it myself ;-)
I found today that in fact I can work with 2 tree, the parser one and 
the AST one. But even with the former one, the ouput is not really like 
the input. What a shame ! ;-)

I'm going to use the parser tree even if adding new line of python in it 
is a big mess...

http://groups.google.fr/groups?q=ast2string&hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Pine.LNX.4.10.10012281200430.23773-100000%40kev.ioc.ee&rnum=1

Thank



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sun Mar 14 02:39:27 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:39:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Problems with unicode
References: <a091da2f.0403131345.5e82b07e@posting.google.com>
	<opstad-5EE7F4.14393313032004@news-central.ash.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <c3127f$eff$3@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

David Opstad <opstad at batnet.com> pisze:

> If, for instance, it came from a Windows 
> machine, then there's a chance it's actually ISO-8859-1 encoding

If it came from Windows, it's actually CP-1252, not Latin-1.

http://www.effbot.org/zone/unicode-gremlins.htm

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 23 13:17:57 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:17:57 -0600
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
In-Reply-To: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040323181757.GI24314@unpythonic.net>

First, make sure that you're adding threads in a way that will give you
better performance.  The program below speeds up dramatically, taking
about 12 seconds for nworkers=5 and 2 seconds for nworkers=50.  Of
course, just doing nothing takes about 0 seconds if you write it
correctly.

Anyway, you want to create a Queue.Queue which is available to your
N consumer threads and your producer thread (in my example, this is the
main thread).  You also want to have a special value that causes the
consumer threads to exit, when the work is complete.

Trying to iterate over the same file from multiple threads will make you
cry.  Iterate over the file in the producer, not the consumer.

Jeff

import Queue, threading, time, random
nworkers = 5
Shutdown = object()
queue = Queue.Queue(2*nworkers)

def worker(i, queue, Shutdown):
    while 1:
        work = queue.get()
        if work is Shutdown: break
        print "Working on", work, "from thread", i
        time.sleep(random.random())

def producer():
    for i in range(100): queue.put(i)

def create_threads():
    return [threading.Thread(target=worker, args=(i, queue, Shutdown))
                        for i in range(nworkers)]

def end_threads(workers):
    for t in workers:
        queue.put(Shutdown)
    for t in workers:
        t.join()

threads = create_threads()
for t in threads: t.start()
producer()
end_threads(threads)




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Mar  2 07:47:05 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:47:05 +0200
Subject: Minimal distro requirements for standalone python program....
In-Reply-To: <c20j3u$2qk7$1@cti15.citenet.net>
References: <c20j3u$2qk7$1@cti15.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <40448249.8040805@zoran.com>

Hello AL,

> Context: I want to add some python capabilities to my application, but not
> force the user to install the full python distro.
> Questions:
>     1- Are these files sufficient? (Too simple to be true!)
That depends on the application and which modules it uses. All of the 
installers (Installer, py2exe, cx_Freeze ...) will find all the modules 
a given script needs. IIRC they all use of one distutils features.

>     2- Is their some registry/path entries do perform to setup a minimal
> python runtime?
Again, use one of the installers (py2exe seems to be popular). It will 
create a small executable with all the needed modules.

HTH.
Miki



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar  9 08:58:58 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:58:58 -0500
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <104rjfeotprjqdc@news.supernews.com>

"Remy Blank" <remy.blank_asps at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:404844e3$1 at epflnews.epfl.ch...
> Hi everybody,
>
> I find myself writing lots of small utilities these days that need to
> iterate over a file system tree and perform operations on every file,
> e.g. setting ID3 tags or generating playlists or <plug> archiving files
> (sync2cd: an incremental archiving tool to CD/DVD at
> http://www.calins.ch/software/sync2cd.html) </plug>.
>
> As a big fan of Python, that's the language of choice for these tools.
> By the way, this is my first posting, and therefore also my first
> opportunity to thank all the people who help providing such a great
> language!
>
> As a fan of TDD (test-driven development), I use the unittest module to
> write the test cases for these tools. However, to make the test cases
> independent of the file system environment, I simulate a file system
> tree with a mock object using the following technique (sorry for the
> long posting):

[example snipped]


> Now my questions:
>   - Am I doing something fundamentally forbidden (replacing stuff in
> existing modules like __builtins__ or os)?

Yes. It's never a good idea to replace stuff on the system
level, and some day it might become impossible.

>   - Is there a better way of achieving the same result?

Well, I don't know about "better" but what I've discovered
is that file system scans are ideal usages of the Visitor pattern.
I've got a single module that contains the guts of the file
system scanner and a number of useful utility methods (such
as loading a file into memory, writing it out and setting the
stats).

My scanners are basically just visitor objects that have
"doDir" and "doFile" methods. In this system, new code
doesn't have to go near the file system at all: it's all in the
scanner and the utility functions.

Writing a new visitor using TDD is trivial since what I
have to write doesn't have to deal with any file system
calls. Everything I have to mock is my own code.

>   - If the technique is generally useful, would there be interest in
> having a full-featured "virtual" file system mock object? I couldn't
> find anything similar on Google.

I don't currently have a need for it.

John Roth
>
> Thanks.
> -- Remy




From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Mon Mar 22 08:11:48 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 13:11:48 GMT
Subject: httplib throw a proxy
References: <%lA7c.4248$jY1.3441@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <405ee614$0$309$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:45:28 +0100, Glauco <00515879256 at fastwebnet.it> wrote:
> I'm using a library based on httplib.
> 
> Now, the problem is passing throw an http_proxy.
> It seems because httplib (based on socket.py) try to autenticate on the 
> proxy.
> 
> 
> I'm only with this problem ? it's impossible :-|
> 
> any ideas ?

use urllib2, for example :

import urllib2

def install_proxy():
    """initialize urllib2 to go through a proxy"""
    proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler(
        { 'http' : "http://username:passwd at IP_proxy:8080",
          'ftp' : "http://username:passwd at IP_proxy:8080" } )
    opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support)
    urllib2.install_opener(opener)

Regards


From nospam at freeworld.fr  Fri Mar  5 11:33:29 2004
From: nospam at freeworld.fr (Lucas Branca)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:33:29 GMT
Subject: reg exp and octal notation
References: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it><4048938a$0$41754$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl><b312c.2624$O31.66196@news4.tin.it>
	<mailman.24.1078501788.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tZ12c.2981$O31.81146@news4.tin.it>

Great!
It's just what I was looking for.
(...and I read it in "what's new" this morning ......
... "boing boing" with my head now ... :)  )

Thank you very much



"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:mailman.24.1078501788.19534.python-list at python.org...
> If you have a string and want to perform backslash-substitution on it,
> use python2.3's "string_escape" codec.
>
> Two examples:
>
> >>> s = "\\n"
> >>> s
> '\\n'
> >>> s.decode("string_escape")
> '\n'
>
> >>> "\x30"
> '0'
> >>> "\\x30"
> '\\x30'
> >>> "\\x30".decode("string_escape")
> '0'
>
> You can remove the trailing newline this way:
>     if s.endswith("\n"): s = s[:-1]
>
> Jeff
>




From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 19:37:16 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:37:16 -0700
Subject: Reload() Confusion
Message-ID: <u4l450hv7isekpk09upvhcpi3b18m3p8a7@4ax.com>

I'm going to be teaching EEs some basic Python using the first few
chapters of Learning Python, 2nd ed. by Mark Lutz.  The discussion on
Reloading Modules starting on page 266 is confusing and I believe
incorrect.  On page 266 it says that a reload "changes the existing
module object in place."  That's a little vague, but on page 267 it
says "every reference to a module object anywhere in your program is
automatically affected by a reload."

It is my understanding that the reloaded objects become *new* objects
in memory, available only via a fully-qualified reference to the new
module.  The old objects remain in memory until the last reference to
them is gone.

I've re-written the section on Reload Basics, and I would like to get
some comments, both on correctness and clarity.

http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm

Your help will be appreciated, both by me and by the students
struggling through this the first time.

-- Dave



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Mar 18 11:23:03 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:03 -0600
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
In-Reply-To: <m3oequ9nyw.fsf@localhost.localdomain> (Edwin Young's message
	of "18 Mar 2004 07:25:27 -0800")
References: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.28.1079374809.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<m3oequ9nyw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m2r7vqcefs.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Edwin" == Edwin Young <edwin at localhost.localdomain> writes:

    Edwin> Right, the problem is getting the data *into* the pixbuf in
    Edwin> the first place. Basically I have the image in a long
    Edwin> string in memory and need to get that into the Pixbuf
    Edwin> somehow. The pixel_array is read-only, so I can't use that.

In matplotlib, I have an image module that renders to a 
unsigned char * buffer in C, and provides an as_str method 
to access that buffer from python.  


char Image_as_str__doc__[] = 
"numrows, numcols, s = as_str()"
"\n"
"Call this function after resize to get the data as string"
;
static PyObject *
Image_as_str(ImageObject *image, PyObject* args) {
  
  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, ":as_str"))
    return NULL;
  
  return Py_BuildValue("lls#", image->rowsOut, image->colsOut, 
		       image->bufferOut, image->colsOut*image->rowsOut*4);
  
  
}

On the pygtk side, I load this into a Pixbuf pixel array as follows
(in this case the image data is RGBA so the array is M x N x 4)

        rows, cols, s = im.as_str()
        X = fromstring(s, UInt8)
        X.shape = cols, rows, 4
        pb=gtk.gdk.Pixbuf(gtk.gdk.COLORSPACE_RGB,
                          has_alpha=1, bits_per_sample=8,
                          width=rows, height=cols)
        try: pa = pb.get_pixels_array()
        except AttributeError: pa = pb.pixel_array

        pa[:,:,:] = X

        gc = self.new_gc()
        pb.render_to_drawable(self.gdkDrawable, gc.gdkGC, 0, 0,
                              int(x), int(self.height-y), rows, cols,
                              gdk.RGB_DITHER_NONE, 0, 0)

This actually works quite well, performance wise.  At least on the
systems I've tested.  You'll need pygtk compiled with numeric support.
In an earlier thread, Cedric just provided a link to a win32 installer
with Numeric if you need it.

JDH 



From joewong at mango.cc  Tue Mar 23 23:11:34 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:11:34 +0800
Subject: how to detect connection closed by server?
Message-ID: <004401c41156$18c17dd0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi there, I have a simple TCP client server program to perform the following:

Server:
- create socket
- bind socket to some port
- listen
- accept connection
- read data from client socket
- close the socket

Client:
- create socket
- connect to port XYZ at server
- send some data to server
- close the socket

The problem I found is that, after the server perform the listen() call, the client program can sucessfully perform connect(), send() and close() on the socket even the server process does not perform the accept() and recv() call. Is this a general behaviour of the socket or I am not writing my program properly? I am using python 2.1.3 on Linux but I tried also 2.3.3 with same behaviour.

Best regards,

- Wong
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From timr at probo.com  Tue Mar  9 02:13:55 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:13:55 -0800
Subject: Gadfly or gadfly or Gadfly.gadfly() or _?
References: <mailman.112.1078735593.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1jrq40taiih6heg1afsvtp1dg87s0dr2q9@4ax.com>

"Eric @ Zomething" <eric at zomething.com> wrote:

>
>My interest was piqued enough to try Gadfly, but I find myself struggling to install it, a new problem for this newB.  Not sure if any of this is the distribution's "fault" or just my lack of understanding of Python:
>
>1) I notice there is no py file named "gadfly.py".  How does 
>Python find and define the namespace?

The gadfly directory probably has a file called __init__.py.  That turns
the directory into a "module" which can be imported.

>2) I have installed the files in this directory under a Windows XP OS:
>  C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gadfly
>3) "import gadfly", as shown in the docs, returns an ImportError
>4) "import Gadfly" does not return any errors.  Is this because of
>the capitalization of the directory name?

Yes.  Windows XP doesn't care, but Python does.  Try renaming the directory
to "gadfly", and the results should be happier.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 00:35:14 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:35:14 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <406A5892.7030809@mlug.missouri.edu>


> The trick with wxPython and wxWindows docs is that the entirety of 
> wxWindows is available to wxPython, through (on the most part) 
> identical class and function calls.  In those cases when there are 
> differences, the differences are noted.
>
> For those who need more documentation, usually, example code is as 
> good documentation as you'd find.  For that, there is the wxPython demo.
>
> In general, Robin Dunn is the only person who is maintaining wxPython, 
> and I am glad that he's spending his time with wxPython, rather than 
> the documentation.
>
> If you are having problems understanding the wxWidgets documentation, 
> learning a bit of C (not much, just a bit) will likely go a /long/ way 
> towards understanding the calling conventions.

Very true, but wxPython still is horribly documented. Documentation of 
the C version of something is really not very friendly especially to new 
Python programmers. I for one would be glad to buy a book about wxPython 
if someone a lot more experienced than myself cared to write such a 
book. I do know C but I still find working from the wxWindows docs 
frustrating with a lot of trial and error required.



From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 19:28:07 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 00:28:07 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <mailman.475.1080412762.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40661C14.8365E058@doe.carleton.ca>

Re: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche

"Eric @ Zomething" wrote:
> 
> Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> > For most general purpose tasks, I reach for Python first.  But if I needed
> > to provide a quick scripting interface to an existing C library,
> 
> I would suggest that one might take an option other than the either/or
> (Perl/Python/____).  It sounds like having at least some comfort with Perl is
> important to OP based on relevant code base.  However, Python is so simple to
> learn, at least at the beginner/intermediate level, that there is not much
> cost to learning some Python as well.
> 
> Personal experience: I struggled to becoming proficient with Perl due to its
> syntax and perhaps my lack of bottomless commitment (knowing Perl would not be
> my bread and butter).  Somehow I stumbled upon a little bit of Python and got
> sucked in.  Now I am probably more proficient at Perl than I was before I
> started using Python (except for needing to look up Perl syntax from time to
> time) because working with Python took my head out of the syntax and let my
> mind focus on the problem solving... and more importantly, the objective.
> 
> Python has me feeling like I can make a program to do _anything_ I want, even
> though I doubt it is any more capable than Perl, etc.  It's matter of clarity
> and better being able to see the forest, rather than a whole lot of trees.
> 
> This might sound like something less than a firm choice, but perhaps OP might
> decide to start digging into Perl in April, but allow one weekend in that
> month for Python and let things evolve as best suits his situation.


Eric, you voiced exactly the opinion that was forming in my mind upon reading
the responses.  There is a complicating factor (actually the most pressing
factor) behind my either/or approach.  That is, I must wrap up my thesis very
soon, and what I've proposed is alot more than what there is time for.  However,
given the responses, I agree that that most reasonable approach is to adopt one
and keep tabs on the other.  Perl seems to be the natural choice for the first,
since I see it in alot of places, meaning I will probably have to poke through
it often.  And the ease of Python will make it feasible to keep in touch with
it, if not immediately, then with time.

Aside from hacking other people's Perl code, I've already bloodied my nose on
Perl composition (quite a bit harder than small modifications to other people's
code, I found), so I'm already down that path a bit.  I expect to be using this
primarily for "glue" work i.e. to mulch information meant for one utility (e.g.
verilog) so that it can be used for another e.g. verilator, or my own code.

For the computation engine, I will stick with C++ and matlab (for its graphing),
again due to the lack of time to ramp up thoroughly on something else.  Also,
despite the availability of Perl code for evolutionary algorithms, I found that
in exploring algorithms, one can very quickly depart from the funcionality
offered by a standard package.  Even C/C++ libraries for these algorithms
presume a certain general framework which can impact speed; I didn't use them,
but if I did, I expect I would have diverged from the code base very early.

On the topic of speed, It's surprising to hear that this can be possibly rivaled
by Perl/Python, considering that even my matlab code is about 10x slower than
C++.  That's with extensive profiling and round-about coding styles to exploit
vectorization tricks, and no such effort in the C++ code.  Some of the
limitations are pretty fundamential e.g. large speed penalties for invoking
nonbuiltin functions.  Such limitations discourage clear coding practice e.g.
huge swaths of code to avoid encapsulating some functionality in its own
function.  Together with the sometimes roundabout coding style, it can detract
from the matlab's high level ease of programming and clarity, especially
considering that C++ can be brought to a high level with its STL library.  And
this speed disparity shows up despite matlab's mission to develop in a way that
rivals 3G languages.  Speed considerations aside, however, matlab is infinitely
easier to use and to read.  With time, perhaps the limitations will shrink.

This is not to say that Perl/Python will have the same limitations.  They are,
however, more general purpose languages, so I expect that speed is less of a
priority than in scientific computing (compared to other important priorities).
Hence, learning curve aside, some time needs to be invested in exploring its
speed in a realistic scientific applications.  For me, this is an option for the
more distant future rather than the immediate term. I spent quite alot of time
in this phase with matlab, trying to squeeze out all possible speed before
conceding that some of the limits were fundamental, at least in the current
release.

One thing I learned was that speed characterization was not a simple.  Many of
the tasks found in scientific computing are done blistering fast by matlab.  It
is not until you put together a larger application when you start running into
the limitations.  Aside from the speed penalties of calling nonbuiltins,
roundabout coding style is not such a big deal for small chunk of code.  It can
be debilitating when you're trying to wrap your head around something large.
The large chunks of inline code exacerbate this.

A final reason to stick with C++ is the hardware simuation library ("SystemC").
The Perl translator I alluded to in an earlier post translates code in hardware
description language ("verilog") to C++ specifically for use with SystemC (well,
it does more than that, but that's my main use of it).  This allows my C++ code
to more directly control the hardware model and its simulation, in contrast to
using a standalone simulator to simulate the original verilog.  Depending on the
level of poking and prodding, it can be extremely arduous to go through the API
of the verilog simulator.  This is especially true if you intend to change the
hardware models alot between simulations (or do things to achieve the same
effect), and all the more true if the functionality outside of the verilog
simuation is meant to supervise the various simulations instead of being
subordinate to them.  An alternative is to have the C++ (or whatever) parent
program generate different verilog code between simulations and invoke the
simulator each time.  This would be far too slow.

I realize that my inclination to write my own code sort of contradicts my want
to springboard off of existing Perl code base.  I only had a vague idea of the
benefits of this, since I don't actually program in Perl right now.  There are
several points I've tried to determine the relevance of.  On one hand, I've
looked at and hacked Perl code to get things done, so knowing Perl helps.  On
the other hand I need a good way to repackage data for different applications,
in which case I'll compose code from scratch.  For this, I would appricate the
lesser pain and greater ease of Python (I imagine).  On yet another hand, I use
Perl-based packages like the verilog-to-C++ translator, but I don't expect to
delve into such a complicated package, whose complexity probably lies in more
than just use of the Perl language.  Finally, and most vaguest of all, I have
this idea that I might eventually be sharing Perl code, collaborating in its
composition, or revising/maintaining it.  If "synergy" in that form is actually
typical in my area of specialization, then of course it would make sense to
start with Perl first, since that is the prevalent language in this area.

-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Mar 20 09:16:13 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:16:13 GMT
Subject: Need recommendations for installer setup tool
References: <c9d82136.0403191957.7385feba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NmY6c.37375$PY.8898@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Noah <noah at noah.org> wrote:
> I would like something that could put a GUI on this process.
> Not that this would make it any easier to use, but it would make it
> easier to market :-P Ideally the installer would allow for both GUI and 
> text based interfaces.
>
> Are there any Python based products that would help me build these installers?
> I'm trying to move away from the bash scripts and go with 100% pure Python.

Have you looked at SCons? Between SCons and anygui, you might be able to
put together a good solution pretty easily.

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From M.Waack at gmx.de  Wed Mar 17 18:34:31 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:34:31 +0100
Subject: popen problem
References: <mailman.79.1079528541.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8t3ni1-2b4.ln1@valpo.de>

Gandalf wrote:

> 
>   Hi All!
> 
> I don't know if this is a Python problem or not. Here is a snippet:
> 
> import os
> TERM='\n\r\n\r'
> cmd = 'cu -l /dev/cuaa0 -s9600'
> pop = os.popen4(cmd,1)

You want to use a bufsize of 1? The Python docs say that bufsize is
the third param to popen4, does 
        pop = os.popen4(cmd,'t',0)
or      pop = os.popen4(cmd, bufsize = 0)
a better job?

Mathias


From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Mon Mar 29 00:44:35 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 21:44:35 -0800
Subject: ZODB for beginners - the most simple example ?
References: <282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6@posting.google.com>
	<YdD9c.6378$hS3.450@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <282f826a.0403282144.efee786@posting.google.com>

"bobb" <rawbobb at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<YdD9c.6378$hS3.450 at nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> I'd try the zope at zope.org group.
OK thanks for the tip.

regards

richard


> 
> "Richard Shea" <richardshea at fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:282f826a.0403272353.39a80af6 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi - I'm trying to use ZODB but I'm having trouble getting started.
> > Can anyone point me at a very simple example ?
> >
> > I've had a look at 'ZODB/ZEO Programming Guide'
> > (http://zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node2.html) but although
> > it's good stuff it's not clear to me how the pieces of example fit
> > together to produce something that works.
> >
> > I've also read 'Introduction to the Zope Object Database'
> >
> (http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/fulton/zodb3.htm
> l)
> > which has good examples but they rely on a module called 'PTextIndex'
> > which (as far as I can see) is not defined anywhere.
> >
> > So if anyone could point me at a very, very simple ZODB usage example
> > I'd be very grateful (and I should just say that both of the above
> > resources are very helpful so thanks to their authors).
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Richard.


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar 11 03:33:43 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:33:43 +0100
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
Message-ID: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,

i need advices on this : having all files are text files, 1 is an index
(6mo) to another big data file (20mb), i can not put that in a database and
must work from raw files.

i've tried to design an oo interface to theses files, well, it took 10
minutes to just load and build the whole wrapper objects (really simple
ones - with not the full logic behind) and it tooks 446mb of memoy! ('top'
command executed while loading to check). if i use tuples instead of objects
it still need about 2 minutes and 240mb...

as i did not need all data in memory at a moment but only index and then
follow to some data, please have you any clue on how i can handle this ?
having to load only index tooks less than 1 minutes and only 60mb in memory
which is acceptable, but if i read data directly from a disk it is
desperatly slow...

thanks a lot,




From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Thu Mar 11 16:08:09 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:08:09 GMT
Subject: loop scope
Message-ID: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>


>>>a=[1,2,3]
>>> for p in a:
	print p
1
2
3
>>> p
3

My naive expectation was that p would be 'not defined' from outside
the loop.

I know this is not news. 

In fact I had come across some discussion of this fact, but apparently
didn't register it.

As I got myself surprised by it - specifically  in the context of list
comps, where I think it is particularly surprising:

>>> b=[4,5,6]
>>> [t*2 for t in b]
[8, 10, 12]
>>> t
6

Is this anywhere useful, or more of an artifact?

Art
 


From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Sat Mar  6 10:08:41 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:08:41 GMT
Subject: Newby Question: Generic Database Object Interface Needed
References: <1Rc2c.2356$u92.1037@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<Zhl2c.2277$G3.18356@localhost>
Message-ID: <ZPl2c.5625$u92.2809@fe3.columbus.rr.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:Zhl2c.2277$G3.18356 at localhost...
> kbass wrote:
> > I have two databases, Postgres and Oracle, and I would like to be able
to
> > use the same syntax to access and retrieve data in the same way. Is
there a
> > generic database object interface (module) that will allow me to access
and
> > retrieve data the same way? I would prefer one that is well supported.
>
> Does this help? :  http://www.python.org/topics/database/
>
> -Peter

I have checked the database resources at the Python website and performed a
Google search but I cannot find the information that I needed. I searched
sourceforge and found  PDO: Python Database Objects  at
http://pdo.neurokode.com/index.php . This seems to have the functionality
that I need. Are there any other modules (or programs) that have the same
functionality? I would like to do some comparisons.

Kevin




From stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org  Sun Mar  7 14:31:32 2004
From: stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:31:32 GMT
Subject: How do I define a __del__ method for an object?
Message-ID: <404B7893.8060408@SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org>

I was looking through Swaroop's tutorial, "A Byte of Python", on Python 
objects,(http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/), and he mentions that you can 
define a __del__ function to completely delete object instances. 
However, when I try to define one in the attached script, not just one, 
but all, of the defined objects disappear.

Can someone show me how to define a __del__ object that works on only 
one object instance?

Thanks
Stewart
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From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Mar 11 15:41:21 2004
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:41:21 -0500
Subject: A GOTO example (was question: numarray c extension...)
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

Here's a nice use of goto's in a Python C extension for those who have 
been following the goto thread.  I like it (see code at end and the nice 
resolve for returns the goto's give).  I hope Mr. Cooke does not mind me 
"borrowing" his code.  :-) 


In article <qnksmggs6uh.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>,
 cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) wrote:

> At some point, "Russell E. Owen" <no at spam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > I'm writing a C extension for numarray and am puzzled about the idiom 
> > for error handling.
> >
> > The documentation seems to say one should always decref an array after 
> > calling  NA_InputArray, etc., to convert numarray args to C arrays. 
> >
> > However, the example and also the numarray code suggests that it's OK to 
> > return early via (for example) PyErr_Format without doing the DECREF. 
> > For example, I have appended a very abbreviated version of the sample 
> > code.
> >
> > Comments? I'll plow ahead and follow the example (i.e. with early 
> > return) but I was wondering if anyone knew why this was OK. Perhaps I 
> > should put in a request to the numarray project for a clarification in 
> > the documentation.
> >
> > -- Russell
> >
> > static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
> > {
> >     PyObject   *okernel,...;
> >     PyArrayObject *kernel...;
> >
> >     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...))
> >         return PyErr_Format(_convolveError, 
> >                     "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");
> 
> This is ok; if PyArg_ParseTuple is NULL, no objects are created (or
> INCREF'd). Also, if it's not NULL, okernel is a borrowed reference;
> you shouldn't DECREF it.
> 
> >
> >     /* Align, Byteswap, Contiguous, Typeconvert */
> >     kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
> > ...
> >     if (!kernel...)
> >         return PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
> >                  "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
> 
> This is also ok (assuming there is nothing between this and the above
> which makes a reference to objects). If NA_IoArray returns NULL,
> there isn't anything to DECREF.
> 
> > ...
> >     Py_XDECREF(kernel);
> > ...
> > }
> 
> Personally, I write it like this:
> 
> static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
> {
>     PyObject   *okernel,...;
>     PyArrayObject *kernel = NULL;
> 
>     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...)) {
>         PyErr_Format(_convolveError,
>                     "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");
>         goto error;
>     }
>     kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
>     if (!kernel...) {
>         PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
>                  "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
>         goto error;
>     }
> 
>     ...more stuff...
> 
>     Py_XDECREF(kernel)
>     return the result
> error:
>     Py_XDECREF(kernel)
>     return NULL;
> }
> 
> Notice that kernel was initialized to NULL, so Py_XDECREF will work in
> all cases. Clean error-handling code like this is one of the few
> places I use goto in C. You now have only two exits out of the
> function, at the bottom, and so it's _much_ easier to keep track of
> what needs to be DECREF'd.

-- Lou Pecora
     My views are my own.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 30 08:44:28 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:44:28 -0500
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <106iufn2q88rcea@news.supernews.com>


"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0403300510.1971c24 at posting.google.com...
> I may be about to get flamed as some heretic against the ancient
> way..... but if assignment in conditional statements isn't
> possible.... why do we need to use '==' instead of just '=' for if and
> while statements ?

I believe the earliest versions of Python did use the single equal
sign for comparisons. I don't know why Guido changed it, but
it might be in order to keep his options open.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
>
> Fuzzy
> (recent python addict)




From email at msn.com  Mon Mar 22 23:32:17 2004
From: email at msn.com (Brad)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:32:17 -0600
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <405FAA1D.83576D05@alcyone.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.261.1080004772.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FAA1D.83576D05@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <F5CdnQZREsxTIMLdRVn-hw@comcast.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

 > Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
 >
 >
 >> Indeed.  The pattern is always the same.  Some innocuous question or
 >> remark at the start, ...
 >
 >
 >
 > Well, it's usually innocuous on its face, but look a little deeper and
 > you see that really he's just looking for a fight.  Take this thread as
 > a good example; it seems reasonable enough to ask for examples of
 > all-Python 3D applications, but even by his first reply we see where
 > he's coming from:  He's implicitly asserting that Python is unsuitable
 > for this and demanding that other people prove to him otherwise.  Blah
 > blah blah, scripting language, not a development language, yadda yadda
 > yadda.
 >
 > (Whether it is or isn't suitable for this task is a separate question,
 > but this is a lousy way to start a fact-finding search.)


What a sick fuck.  Now I know why they call people like him trolls.

This guy has 1600 newsgroup posts in the past year with one email address:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&q=author:try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname%40yahoo.com+>
and before that had 5000 with another email address:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&q=author:vanevery%403DProgrammer.com+>


From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Tue Mar 23 21:39:32 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:39:32 +1100
Subject: creating lists question?
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<bp48c.1529$0_1.159@news.cpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <4060F4E4.1090006@yahoo.com.au>

Matt Gerrans wrote:

> This would do the trick:
> 
> for item in list1:
>  exec( item + ' = []' )
> 
> Of course, there are the usual cautions about using exec() and error
> handling...

With respect Matt, Spisatus has already suggested he is 
a newbie, and therefore probably hasn't got a clue what 
those cautions are.

For the benefit of Spisatus, what happens if one of 
those prospective list names is something like this?

"f=open('SOME_IMPORTANT_FILE','w'); f.close(); aaa"

Don't try this at home if you actually have an 
important file called SOME_IMPORTANT_FILE.

If the names of the lists can be created by the user 
who runs the program, then this is a terrible security 
hole, just waiting for a malicious (or unlucky) user to 
exploit.

Seems to me, rather than hand Spisatus a possible 
security vulnerability, we should ask him why he wants 
to create a variable number of seperate lists. I'm 
guessing there is probably a simpler way of getting the 
result he wants.

Originally, Spisatus asked:

 > I'm trying to create a series of list from a loop is 
 > this possible? Let me give you an example:
 >
 > list1 = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]
 >
 > for element in list1:
 >   a = element
 >   a = []
 >
 > I want a new list created for every element in 
list1, > how can I do this.

Yes, it is possible, but why do you think you need to 
do this?

I can think of a couple of alternative methods of doing 
something like this. Suppose you want to initialise a 
number of lists:

aaa = []; bbb = []; ccc = []

etc. Tedious and boring, but it is safe and easy to 
maintain and easy to understand. The disadvantage is 
that you need to know how many lists you want beforehand.

Is there any reason why the individual lists have to be 
seperate variables? If not, then you can do something 
like this:

myListVariables = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc"]
myLists = {}
for element in myListVariables:
     myLists[element] = []

and then access each list with myLists["aaa"] etc. This 
is quite safe. Even if the user tries to create a list 
with a "dangerous" name, it won't do anything. It is 
just a string of letters and numbers.

I must admit I am stumped about one thing though. I 
originally came up with this (non-)solution to the case 
where you do know how many lists you need:

aaa, bbb, ccc = ([],) * 3

Unfortunately, this doesn't do what I expected it to 
do. I thought that the above line would be equivalent to:

aaa, bbb, ccc = ([], [], [])

but in fact they are three names for the same list, 
equivalent to aaa = bbb = ccc = []

Why is this? Bug or feature?


-- 
Steven D'Aprano




From nikita_raja at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 13:47:27 2004
From: nikita_raja at yahoo.com (Sam Smith)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 10:47:27 -0800
Subject: Optparse: Detecting if option or option-arg is specified or not
References: <b19beb92.0403111410.4202c2b3@posting.google.com>
	<c2qqb1$87d$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <b19beb92.0403121047.3977802f@posting.google.com>

>> What is wrong with default values?

Per-se there is nothing wrong with default values.  But I think that
there should be some way for detecting if the user has specified a
specific option or option-arg on the commandline or not.  Your
solution works in the sense that we are able to detect whether an
option or option-arg is specified or not, but now default value
assignment will not work.

What I really want is to specify an option having a default value
which could be specified by the user too.  The user may decide to
specify this option on the commandline, and if not the option should
take the default value.  But I should be able to query to find if this
setting of the value has been done due to optparse filling in default
value or it has been done by the user.

Usage Scenario:

I am implementing a multi-level commandline program.  On windows
platform similar to "net /?" command which in turn has "net use /?",
"net computer /?" etc commandlines.

Some of my commandlines share the same option-arg, but the default
value to be associated with each of them is different.  In one of the
commandlines I was trying to detect if the user has specified the
option or not and if not assign a different value to the option.

Irrespective of the usage scenario, I believe that it is important to
give the module user the ability to find out whether an option has
been specified or not by the user.

Some suggestions:

* Maybe a method can be added to the option class, isSpecified() 
  which will return True if the option is found on commandline 
  and optparse has read it or False if the option is not found 
  on the commandline.

* Add ability to query the Values instance which is returned by
  parse_args

Thanks


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Mar  9 13:13:49 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:13:49 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ROn3c.3325$j05.206907@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c2jon0$gba$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
[snip]
> Or for backwards compatibility:
> from HOW.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
> import HOW.MODULE.NAMES as RENAME
>
>
> Where HOW is of the form:
> -<INTEGER>[.PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]
> [PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]
>
> With the search stepping up <integer> path levels, then traversing down
> through the listed packages, not stepping up any path levels when the
> -integer is not given, and raising a SyntaxError for -0 imports.  For
[snip]
> I think such behavior is clear enough magical syntax, what do others
think?


+1

I like this version the best, so far. It should be added to the PEP.

Sean




From cgadgil_list at cxoindia.dnsalias.com  Tue Mar  2 04:10:31 2004
From: cgadgil_list at cxoindia.dnsalias.com (Chetan Gadgil)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:40:31 +0530
Subject: get notepad on windows to front via tcp-server
In-Reply-To: <5475062c.0403011527.22364bc4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c40036$36afee70$5b0aa8c0@cxodt03>


> 
> Using these methods from a python shell works as expected, 
> but using a tcp-client/server construct gives me notepad in the rear.

That sounds painful. ;)


Do you think that using an edit control is suitable for your purpose?
i.e. if you can avoid using notepad, you can have much better control
over your controls.


> I read an old thread from '98 about something very much 
> related to this, but it used tk which I don't want to. 
> Besides, the thread ended undecidedly.
> 
> 2)
> >From a python shell using
> os.system("write") or
> os.system("start /w write")
> gives me an exit code (zero) before I have closed the 
> application wordpad. So os.system() is not waiting as I 
> thought it should. Can this be explained?
> 
> I have NOTEPAD.EXE in C:\windows and notepad.exe and 
> write.exe in C:\windows\system32.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 13:23:57 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:23:57 -0500
Subject: Meta-class fun with PEP 318 [was Re: PEP 318 - posting draft]
References: <mailman.292.1080061340.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5059c.52103$re.2658589@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <iEj9c.52673$re.2965819@news20.bellglobal.com>

For some reason I got caught up in using both decorate() and annotate(), but
you really only need one:

import sys

def delayed_decorate(method, *decorators, **attributes):
    "Decorate method during class instantation"
    method.__dict__.update(attributes)
    for decorator in decorators:
        method = decorator(method)
    return method

def decorate(funcname, *decorators, **attributes):
    "Mark method for delayed decoration"
    clsdict = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
    clsdict.setdefault("decorated", {})[funcname] = (decorators, attributes)


class MetaDecorate(type):
    "Enables delayed decoration and annotation of methods"
    def __new__(klass, name, bases, _dict):
        if "decorated" in _dict:
            for method, (decorators, attributes) in
_dict["decorated"].iteritems():
                _dict[method] = delayed_decorate(_dict[method], *decorators,
**attributes)
            del _dict["decorated"]
        return type.__new__(klass, name, bases, _dict)

class Decorated(object):
    __metaclass__ = MetaDecorate

class C(Decorated):
    a = "A"

    decorate("f", classmethod, author="Sean Ross", version="0.9.2")
    def f(klass):
        return klass.a

    decorate("g", staticmethod)
    def g():
        return "G"

print "C.f.author =", C.f.author
print "C.f.version =", C.f.version
print "C.f() =>", C.f()
print "C.g() =>", C.g()




From myang at clarku.edu  Mon Mar 15 11:19:51 2004
From: myang at clarku.edu (myang)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:19:51 -0500
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMOEJNCDAA.myang@clarku.edu>

Maybe a stupid question, but I really know nothing about binary data.

Got a binary data file, opened it with binary mode, and read the first line,
print it out, and I got:
'T\x00\x00\x00CORD\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x
00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x
00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x
00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x
00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x1a\x00\x00\x00T\x00\x00\x00\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\
x00\x04\x00\x00\x00\x04\x00\x00\x00\xdd\x06\x00\x00\x04\x00\x00\x00t\x1b\x00
\x00/\xdd|A\x83\xc0lA\xb2\x9d\x81A\x08\xac\x80A\x00\x00\x83A\x9c\xc4\x84AV\x
0e\x8eA\xfc\xa9\x92A\xa0\x1a\x8dA\xa6\x9b\x95A\x98n\x9cA)\\uA\xd7\xa3nA\x1b/
oAq=rAh\x91\x81A\xc3\xf5jA\xdd$hAj\xbcrA\x1f\x85cA\x06\x81SA{\x14NAffHA\x04V
\\A\xf6(PAy\xe9bA^\xbaUA%\x06wAb\x10\x80A\x17\xd9\x80A\x81\x95wA\xd3M\x81A\x
1dZrA\x9a\x99\x85A\x93\x18\x87A\x0e-\x8fA\xf4\xfd\x81A\xaa\xf1~A\xd5xuA\xd9\
xce\x85A\x02+\x88Ad;\x80A\xf8S\x8aA\xecQ\x8eA^\xba\x8bA!\xb0\x92A\xdfO\x8dA\
x19\x04\x87A=\n'

How can I covert these codes into human-readable string? I am sure the
filecontains only some float numbers and some characters.

Thanks!

Best,
Yang




From kirk at strauser.com  Wed Mar 17 23:15:09 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:15:09 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <873c863ibe.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2004-03-18T03:07:05Z, droog <droog at orange.gov> writes:

> 	if line.find('customer'):

Note that this method, when fixed, will only count the number of lines where
'customer' occurs, regardless of the number of times it can be found on each
line.

A (slightly) more accurate counter would be:


   counter += line.count('customer')

- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAWSGH5sRg+Y0CpvERArAWAJ96IrqOogdFTqPLdi8wtnkAlq3l2QCgiXfg
HF+aWKda8pQjtx/1tGA0QMo=
=JBnU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar 12 08:39:07 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:39:07 GMT
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ishab2x1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Ellinghaus, Lance" <lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> writes:

> > > Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()
> 
> >Reload doesn't work the way most people think
> >it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
> >they stay around. They aren't replaced.
> 
> >It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
> >doesn't do what the idea promises.

I missed these mails...

> I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
> would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()? 
> 
> Would this be done by "del sys.modules['modulename']" and then perform an
> 'import'?
> 
> I use reload() for many purposes, knowing how it works/does not work.

To paraphrase Tim Peters, you can have reload() when I'm dead.  Just
because it doesn't and never has done what some people expect is no
argument at all for deprecating it.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  But maybe I've just programmed in enough different languages to
  assume that they are, in fact, different.
     -- Tony J Ibbs explains why Python isn't Java on comp.lang.python


From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Tue Mar 16 03:58:41 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 00:58:41 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403160058.626d0a35@posting.google.com>

hi Terry,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  I've tried to address the points
you made, but I could have missed something.  b-)


"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list at python.org>...
> Replacing items, which is by far the most common need, works fine.

Fair enough.


> > That is, if you change the length of a section of the list
> > through which the iterator has already passed, it will lose track of
> > where it is.
> 
> Same is true of dicts.  The limitation is documented.  The need is

Actually, dicts just give up at that point.  The fact that lists don't
implied to me that *someone* thought modification should work with
iterators.  Your "other algorithm" suggestions all seem to
specifically avoid the idiom that I'm proposing, which is iteration
over a list that can be modified, such that the loop body can feel the
logical effects of that modification.

All of your suggestions are valid ways to deal with the current
system, by deliberately building more machinery on top of it.  But
none of them allow me to simply code a loop that assumes it will get
the item that is now after the last one it got, even if it may have
made changes to the list in the interim.  The class I posted does
allow that.


> Note that filter is O(n) timewise.  Simply deleting items in place and
> closing up the gap, one at a time, as your approach would appear to do, is
> O(n**2).  Applying an edit list in a batch after the initial scan may also
> be O(n) for typical cases.
.
.
.
> Bottom line: because of the O(n**2) trap, insertion and deletion are
> trickier than mere replacement.

I'm not handling the deletion myself; every method of my class besides
__iter__ calls the corresponding method of list right away.  I'll
grant you that the methods other than __iter__ shouldn't spend so much
time building sequences to record what their actions were.  I think
that instead they should just save a reference to their index value
(which is either a number or a slice), and the iterator can deal with
interpreting the meaning whenever it gets called.  I doubt that saving
a reference to an already existing object would slow any of these
methods down that much.  And of course the methods could make sure
that there are existing iterators before doing anything else.  As for
the iterator, if coded correctly it only has to go through the work of
interpreting the mutation records if there are actually mutation
records.  That is, the slowdown that has to be somewhere here would
only occur if the user specifically coded a loop that modified its
list.

I think I'll spend some time implementing some of the above changes to
see if I can get them to work.


> The listobject.c code is being reworked to make common list operations
> quite noticeably faster.  A slowdown to enable doing something that is
> better done elsewise will not be accepted.  In most cases, the limitation
> protects people from making a bad algorithm choice.

I understand what you're saying here.  Most of the community doesn't
care about this.  The only way to get something like this into core is
to prove it won't cost anyone anything, and then get real lucky.  I
wouldn't put it as "protecting people" so much as I would put it "not
eating their cycles when they're not looking".  I did actually have an
algorithm in mind when I started down this road.  After inputting the
following code, calling tourney(n) builds and returns a tournament
with fair pairings for a number of parties seeded 1 through n.  For
example:

tourney(35)
(((((1, (32, 33)), (16, 17)), ((8, 25), (9, 24))), (((4, 29), (13,
20)), ((5, 28), (12, 21)))), ((((2, (31, 34)), (15, 18)), ((7, 26),
(10, 23))), (((3, (30, 35)), (14, 19)), ((6, 27), (11, 22)))))

It uses the list code I posted before.  It appears to me to be O(n),
which seems like the best possible for this problem.

thanks,
Jess


import math
from itertools import izip, chain, repeat
from mutable_iterable_list import mutable_iterable_list as mil

class tree(object):
    def __repr__(self):
        return '('+repr(self.top)+', '+repr(self.bottom)+')'
    def SetTop(self, top):
        self.top = top
    def SetBottom(self, bottom):
        self.bottom = bottom

class seed(object):
    """trees grow from seeds"""
    def __init__(self, setter, value):
        self.setter, self.value = setter, value
    def __call__(self, value):
        t = tree()
        t.SetTop(seed(t.SetTop, self.value))
        t.SetBottom(seed(t.SetBottom, value))
        self.setter(t)
        self.setter = t.SetTop
        return t
    def __repr__(self):
        return repr(self.value)

def tourney(n):
    """Return a tree structure that reflects a tournament of n
parties"""
    tournament = tree()
    tournament.SetTop(seed(tournament.SetTop, 1))
    seeds = mil((tournament.top,))
    for x, s in izip(range(2, n+1), 
                     chain(*repeat(seeds, int(math.log(n, 2))+1))):
        seeds[:0] = [s(x).bottom]
    return tournament.top


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 13 11:59:57 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:59:57 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <wxF4c.2791$G3.23544@localhost>
Message-ID: <c2vem7$k0f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Another question no one has asked: if you're trying to get central
> control in a situation like this, why the heck do the users even know
> the root password for their machines in the first place?  Can't you
> reserve that for administrative use by the IT types, and give users safe
> userids which _cannot_ do what you are saying they do to screw up the
> systems?

They don't know the root password. They don't have to know it in order to
change it... all it takes is an "administrative" user doing this:

sudo passwd root

They can change it to whatever they like.


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Sun Mar 14 13:25:34 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:25:34 -0700
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.320.1079113077.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<87y8q52pvb.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<4052BD1F.B8190E0D@pobox.com> <87brmz3khm.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4054A2A5.9032BE1B@pobox.com>

"Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote:
> Using IDLE w/subprocess, set a breakpoint (right click) on 'print "quitting"',
> Turn on the debugger, then Run/F5 this program. Click on 'Go', then
> the apps' QUIT button.  The debugger will break on the print
> statement.  You can then Step into Tkinter. The last line in the
> debugger window is
> 
> > 'Tkinter".quit(), line 968: self.tk.quit()
> 
> So this is working as I would expect.  The debugger only traces Python.
> 
> Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "debug".

In a non-subprocess IDLE, you don't have to hit a breakpoint to be able
to examine a running Tkinter program.  Both the shell window and the
user program are fully responsive at the same time.  For example, you
could type a command to change the appearance of a button, and
IMMEDIATELY try out the button with its new appearance, since the
mainloop is still running.  This ability is lost in a subprocess IDLE.

> > quit() does nothing but cause the innermost mainloop() to exit, and
> > exiting a mainloop() does nothing other than no longer processing
> > events.  mainloops()s can be nested,
> 
> What would be the application?  I've never tried that.

Modal dialogs.  If you need an answer from the user right now, before
anything else is done, you can create a new toplevel and allow
interaction with it via a nested mainloop (or more likely, something
that internally calls mainloop(), like wait_window() or one of the
standard dialog routines).
	Jason Harper


From chrish at cryptocard.com  Wed Mar 24 13:26:07 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:26:07 -0500
Subject: Simple raster graphics ? How do I ...
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1acbebbe56e964e0989684@news.teleline.es>
References: <MPG.1acbebbe56e964e0989684@news.teleline.es>
Message-ID: <Zik8c.18923$A_2.995691@news20.bellglobal.com>

Ray Molacha wrote:

> I'm learning Python on a Windows computer, using PythonWin.
> 
> I'd like to be able to do some simple raster graphics, like 
> clearing the screen and plotting a point of some color. I want to 
> plot some fractals and math functions just for fun. I understand 
> the math ok -- I don't know how to do simple raster graphics. 

Visit http://www.pygame.org/ ...

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From goodger at python.org  Wed Mar 17 10:03:51 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:03:51 -0500
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
In-Reply-To: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405868D7.4090205@python.org>

Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
 > This calls for a command line like CVS or subverion employ:
 >
 > <cmd> <generic options> <subcmd> <subcmd options> <args>

I suggest the following:

1. Build an OptionParser for your <cmd> that accepts only the generic
    options.  Make sure to call
    OptionParser.disable_interspersed_args() before calling
    .parse_args().  The first argument in the returned args list should
    be your <subcmd> (be sure to check!).

2. Once you know your <subcmd>, build a new OptionParser that handles
    its options.  Pass the argument list returned from step 1 (less the
    subcmd) to .parse_args().

    If you really want the subcmd's option parser to handle the <cmd>'s
    generic options too, you could augment the OptionParser built in
    step 1:

        parser = OptionParser()
        parser.add_option(...)
        ...
        parser.disable_interspersed_args()
        values, args = parser.parse_args()

        subcmd = args[0]
        parser.add_option(...)  # depending on subcmd
        ...
        parser.enable_interspersed_args()  # if you like
        values, args = parser.parse_args(args=args[1:], values=values)

    You'll have to be careful about conflicts.

 >  - Don't allow interspersed arguments. This is something I
 > dislike. I want to be able to type a forgotten generic option when
 > I'm at the end of a possibly long line.

You won't have any arguments *before* the subcmd, so the above should
work for you.

 >  - Augment optparse to just ignore unknown options and treat them as
 > arguments.

There goes all error-checking.

 > Doesn't allow clustering of generic and subcommand-specific options,

You'd have to avoid conflicts completely.

 > doesn't allow for generic options to be arguments to
 > subcommand-specific options,

What does that mean?

 > but these seem as minor points to me. So I did that. And I'd like to
 > ask if this might have a chance to get into the standard optparse
 > module (It's just a few lines).

Your "minor points" will be major to someone else, so I doubt a
simplistic patch will be accepted.  But by all means, show the code
(not here though; see below).

 > The bigger problem, though, is internationalization. ... Is it even
 > thinkable that optparse (or, in the end, the whole standard library)
 > be prepared for internationalization?

I imagine that optparse would be open to internationalization.  I'd
like to see some of optparse's strings be parameterized instead of
hard-coded.  These changes just need someone to implement (and write
tests for, and document) them.

In any case, discussions here are unlikely to be seen, and almost
certainly won't be acted upon.  I suggest posting to the optik-users
(@lists.sf.net) list or filing a feature request.  A working code,
test, & doc patch would be helpful too.

-- 
David Goodger                               http://python.net/~goodger
For hire: http://python.net/~goodger/cv




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 11 10:52:04 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:52:04 -0600
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403110725.2ebe1b55@posting.google.com>
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<95aa1afa.0403110725.2ebe1b55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040311155203.GD14393@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 07:25:01AM -0800, Michele Simionato wrote:
> This is not useless, but does not require new notations. Just use
> callable objects instead of functions and overload "*" to denote
> composition.

What about instances which already support __mul__ and __call__, a
combination that is perfectly legal today?

Jeff



From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Thu Mar 18 09:47:36 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:47:36 +0800
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:

    Peter> Nicola Mingotti schrieb:
    >> 2) Like C -----> Char is converted to int #include<stdio.h> int
    >> main(){ printf("%i %i", '1' > 1 , '1' + 1 ); return 0;
    >> }

    Peter> That's not really a conversion. '1' is 0x31 in memory and 0x31 >
    Peter> 1.

That's really not a conversion, but not because '1' is 0x31 in memory.  It
is because C defines '1' to be equivalent to (in every respect, including
type) the integer to represent it---which is 49 (0x31) in most computers we
use today.  So in C (and our current platforms), '1' means 49 and 49 means
'1'.  Adding '1' with '1' give you 98, and adding "hello" and '1' gives you
a pointer to the 49-th byte after the beginning of "hello".  The size of '1'
is 4.  C++ is a bit better in the last respect: '1' is of size one byte
rather than 4 bytes in C++ (so in C++ language, char is a short integer).

    Peter> C simply compares memory locations, so comparisons are perhaps
    Peter> even be machine dependent.

Untrue.  It does not try to compare "memory location".  Instead it is simply
comparing based on the values of the two operands.  Since C defines '1' to
be its representational value which is 49, and 49 is greater than 1, the
comparison result is non-zero.

    Peter> Unlike C, Python's comparison results for different types are
    Peter> defined in a strange but archicture independent way, see Python
    Peter> Library Reference 2.3.3.

Also untrue.  Python's comparison result is dependent on implementation, so
even in the same computer, two different Python implementation can give you
different results; and you cannot make any assumption in different
platforms.

Regards,
Isaac.


From http  Mon Mar 22 06:02:49 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 03:02:49 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xisgxuoti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> Good point. Though to me, it isn't that it's a pain for the compiler
> to search for the 'yield' - I don't care about the compilers pain. The
> problem is that *I* have to look for the yield and might not notice it.

Well, yes.  It wouldn't have occurred to me to care about the
compiler's pain ;-).


From lamtranbp at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  9 12:29:52 2004
From: lamtranbp at hotmail.com (Lam Tran)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 09:29:52 -0800
Subject: converting a python module wrapping flash to .exe -- help
Message-ID: <c698aa8.0403090929.412c705b@posting.google.com>

hi,

I got python to wrap Flash and it works, but I cannot make a .exe out
of it using py2exe.  Has anyone got this to work?


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar  7 18:06:38 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:06:38 +0100
Subject: How do I define a __del__ method for an object?
References: <404B7893.8060408@SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org>
Message-ID: <c2g9tu$atc$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Stewart Midwinter wrote:

> I was looking through Swaroop's tutorial, "A Byte of Python", on Python
> objects,(http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/), and he mentions that you can
> define a __del__ function to completely delete object instances.
> However, when I try to define one in the attached script, not just one,
> but all, of the defined objects disappear.

?

> Can someone show me how to define a __del__ object that works on only
> one object instance?

A minimal example:

>>> class Person:
...     def __init__(self, name):
...             self.name = name
...             Person.population += 1
...     population = 0
...     def __del__(self):
...             Person.population -= 1
...
>>> stuart = Person("Stuart")
>>> Person.population
1
>>> del stuart
>>> Person.population
0
>>> stuart = Person("Stuart")
>>> midwinter = stuart
>>> print Person.population
1
>>> del midwinter
>>> Person.population
1
>>> del stuart
>>> Person.population
0

The __del__() method is called after the last binding to the object is
removed, i. e. the object becomes unreachable.

Explicitly deleting bindings is not very common. __del__() calls rather
occur when the last reference to an object goes out of scope:

>>> def transient():
...     p = Person("Peter")
...     print Person.population
...
>>> transient()
1
>>> Person.population
0
>>> mary = Person("Mary")
>>> Person.population
1
>>> mary = None
>>> Person.population
0

The caveat is that __del__() may not always be called immediately and
sometimes never.

Another point: Most objects do *not* need __del__() methods at all - I think
the ratio in the Python library is about 4 to 100, so don't spend too much
time on them.

Peter

PS: sayDie() is a badly chosen name as it pretends to inform the user while
the population is actualy changed.


From michael at foord.net  Thu Mar 18 10:20:44 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:20:44 +0000
Subject: dictionary wart
References: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
	<7xr7vquwpo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<LKh6c.11860$g4.239900@news2.nokia.com>
	<4eej50944f0lk1dc3fag82qumcsk4t39j9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pgfj50hjg8te6jua2l95eh0bbhutu5v23t@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:48 +0000, Fuzzyman <michael at foord.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:46:19 GMT, Jesper <jolsen at mail2world.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Paul Rubin wrote:
>>> jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper Olsen) writes:
>>> 
>>>>Does python have a way of defining a dictionary default? 
>>>>I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?
>>>>
>>>>Intuitively I would imagine that
>>>>
>>>>a={}
>>>>a.set_default(my_default)
>>>>
>>>>would do this -ie. a[my_new_key] should now return the the default
>>>>value my_default instead of creating an exception. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No, instead of a[my_new_key] use a.get(my_new_key, my_default).
>>> That does what you want.
>>
>>Unfortunately not - get() is different, because you can not assign to it.
>>For instance in a dictionary which is mapping strings to integers (or 
>>lists), I would like to do
>>
>>a[my_key]+=5
>>
>>expressing that with get() would be awkward.
>>
>>Jesper
>
>You can however subclass dict to create something that *behaves* like
>a dictionary, but for unknown keys returns a default :
>
>Regards,
>
>Fuzzy
>
>http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
>
>e.g. (untested - but should work)
>
>
>class defaultDict(dict):
>    """A dictionary that returns a default for non-existent keys.
>    Won't work for methods like pop unless you also define them as
>well."""
>    def __init__(self, default):
>        dict.__init__(self)
>        self.default = default
>
>    def __getitem__(self, item):
>        if self.has_key(item):
>            return dict.__getitem__(self, key) 
>        else:
>            return self.default
>

Oops - that would be (and I see that someone else already suggested
this anyway )...

            return dict.__getitem__(self, item) 


>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    a = defaultDict(3)
>    a['test'] = 4
>    print a['test']
>    print a['fish']
>
>
>
>
>---
>Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
>Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 
>
>http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
>Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
>Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
>Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing

---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com


From rick_muller at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 11:11:46 2004
From: rick_muller at yahoo.com (Rick Muller)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 08:11:46 -0800
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5eb8fb88.0403160811.2409d367@posting.google.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list at python.org>...
> For balls and sticks this is a pretty trivial task.  4th year comp-sci 
> students are made to do this (well, a lot more) for creating ray-trace 
> renderers in their computer graphics courses.  However, being able to 
> load everything into the hardware buffers of a video card is pretty hard 
> to beat as a performance path.

Sorry, I didn't explain my own sarcasm. Writing the code isn't the
problem, it's generating an interface that looks nice and performs
well that is why I think this is only worthy of humorous mention.
Although the JMol project (http://jmol.sf.net) has done a surprisingly
good job with this type of graphics.

> 
> >Thanks in advance for any help or sympathy that people can offer.
> >  
> >
> Hmm, sympathy?  You get to work on graphics and you want sympathy?  Some 
> of us would *kill* to have the time to work on graphics ;) .


Thanks for putting this in perspective!


From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sat Mar  6 13:44:47 2004
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:44:47 +0000
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <404a1c35_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> Hi, 
>  I've written some code that takes a N lists of numbers (corresponding to
> axes) and generates a list of grid points (N dimensional grid) for the
> supplied axes. So as an example say my two axes are defined as
> 
> v1 = [1,2,3]
> v2 = [1,2,3]
> 
> My code will return to me a list of points: 
> 
> (1,1), (1,2), (1,3) ....(3,1), (3,2), (3,3)
> 

[[a,b] for a in v1 for b in v2]


> and so on. For 3 axes, I would obtain 27 points and so on.
> I've included the code below.


[[a,b,c] for a in v1 for b in v2 for c in v3]

etc.

then just pick the list comprehension from the count of axes.

or even build the list comp. required in a string and use exec()

> 
> My questions:
> 
> Firstly,  the code runs in exponential time. Is there any way to
> rewrite it to make it more efficient? It seems that this could be
> formulated as a recursive problem but I can't seem to get at it.
> 
> Secondly, it seems that the repeated use of copy.deepcopy() is very
> wasteful? Is there a way I can get around it?
> 
> Thanks,

alwys be exponential, but list comp. should be fast without much work.


From xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org  Wed Mar 10 14:13:35 2004
From: xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org (xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:13:35 -0500
Subject: Your message to xml-bindings awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040310191335.10280.24580.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xml-bindings' with the subject

    Re: Your product

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Tue Mar 16 07:58:53 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:53 GMT
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jeud505d4ehkoo2jtje7co6h8tne5fuuu1@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:09:49 -0500, "Mike C. Fletcher"
<mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:

>BTW, someone else suggested using VPython.  It's basically it's own 3D 
>scenegraph-level API with a very simple interface.  Not a lot of 
>mechanisms exposed, but it might have enough to get your job done.  I 
>believe it only runs under Tkinter.


I don't believe VPython is at all dependant on Tkinter.  Its windowing
system is part of the C code and is dependent on GTK.GLArea for
non-Windows systems, and I think is native windowing on Windows.

It can be controlled, I believe, by any of the GUI toolsets, using
threading.  but is not designed to be embedded in any of the GUI sets
windowing..

There is a version under development using Boost, which will move to
depedency on  Gtk.GLExt and Numarray.

Under its current version, it is only the dependency on the
GTK.GLArea that seems to create install issues, particularly under OS
X.  Among other issues, there are apparently GTK2 and GTK versions of
GTK.GLArea floating around.  Neither is installed by default on OS X
or most Linux distributions, and it is only the older one that works
with VPython.

I am looking forward to the Boost version of VPython, which should
bring its dependencies up to date, among other advantages.

Because VPython is very cool, IMO.

Art


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar 16 17:13:48 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:13:48 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list at python.org>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     Skip> Python: yes.  I don't know about Java or C# but my guess is that
>     Skip> since C++ has casts you can make it do some type unsafe things.
> 
> Sorry to follow up to my own post, but unions also create type unsafety.
> Unlike Pascal's records (remember them?), C/C++ unions are not
> discriminated, so you can write values into the union using one slot and
> read using another:
> 
>     #include <stdio.h>
>     int main(int argc, char *argv[])
>     {
>         union {
>             float f;
>             int i;
>         } x;
> 
>         x.f = 3.14159;
>         fprintf(stderr, "%x\n", x.i);
>     }

Of course you can.  Given C's roots as a high level assembly language, 
why would you expect anything else?

I was once asked on an interview how I would tell, inside of a C 
program, if I was on a big endian or a small endian machine.  I said I'd 
create a union of a long and a char[4], set the long equal to 1, and see 
which char it showed up in.  The interviewer looked shocked, thought 
about it for a while, and finally said something like, "yeah, I guess 
that would work".

To this day, I have no idea what other plan he had in mind.


From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Sat Mar 20 15:22:58 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:22:58 -0500
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
Message-ID: <xK17c.26714$Eb6.852981@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hi all,

In several occasions, I found myself looking for a function that would 
take a value and restrict is within a specified set of boundaries.   For 
a 1-dimension value, I could simply write

	min(max(value,theMin),theMax)

to restrict value within the range made of theMin to theMax.
It assumes that theMax >= theMin.

I was looking for a single call to restrict a value within bounds that 
would do pretty much that, so i wrote this trivial one:

def restrain(value, theMin, theMax) :
     """Return a value that is in restricted to the [theMin, theMax] range.

     **Example**

     >>> for val in xrange(-1,7,1):
     ...   print "restrain(%d,1,5) = %d" % (val, restrain(val,1,5))
     ...
     restrain(-1,1,5) = 1
     restrain(0,1,5) = 1
     restrain(1,1,5) = 1
     restrain(2,1,5) = 2
     restrain(3,1,5) = 3
     restrain(4,1,5) = 4
     restrain(5,1,5) = 5
     restrain(6,1,5) = 5
     >>>
     """

     assert(theMax >= theMin)
     return min(max(value,theMin),theMax)


Without the assertion check, the restrain() named function runs 
expectedly slower than the explicit min(max()) calls:

C:\Python23\Lib>timeit "min(max(5,1),0)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.02 usec per loop

C:\Python23\Lib>timeit -s"from ut import restrain" "restrain(5,1,6)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.53 usec per loop

Again, I found myself writing code that has to restrain the values to 
some range and prefer using the restrain() function instead of the 
min(max()) one.

Therefore, I was wondering if it would it make sense to add a function 
like restrain() to the list of Python built-ins.  Or is there something 
like that already in the Python library?


Thanks

Pierre







From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Mar 19 18:56:48 2004
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:56:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
Message-ID: <c3g1c0$uim$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Darabos Daniel <cyhawk at sch.bme.hu> wrote:

:>>> def p( x ):
: ...     print x
: ...
:>>> l = []
:>>> for i in range( 5 ):
: ...     l.append( lambda: p( i ) )
: ...
:>>> for k in l:
: ...     k()
: ...
: 4
: 4
: 4
: 4
: 4

: And it surprised me a little. I was expecting to see 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.


Hi Darabos,


Someone should make a FAQ out of this.  *grin*


This keeps popping up every so often on comp.lang.python.  Here's a
link to one of the really heated threads about this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=4bca1bec20119375&rnum=6


It sounds like you may have some experience with some kind of
functional language like Scheme.  If so, then you probably understand
the distinction between DEFINE and SET! in Scheme.


The issue that you're running into is that Python uses a SET!-like
behavior when it reassigns the index variable of loops.  To see this
more easily, let me translate your program into an equivalent Scheme
program:

;;;
guile> (define (p x) (display x) (newline))
guile> (define l '())
guile> (define i 0)
guile> (while (< i 5) 
         (begin
            (set! l (cons (lambda () (p i)) l))
            (set! i (+ i 1))))
guile> (for-each (lambda (x) (x)) l)
5
5
5
5
5
;;;

So here we can see the same problem popping up.



: found a solution like this:
:>>> def mylambda( fn, *args ):
: ...     return lambda: apply( fn, args )
: ...
:>>> l = []
:>>> for i in range( 5 ):
: ...     l.append( mylambda( p, i ) )
: ...


Yup, this works, because we take advantage of the name-binding
behavior of parameter passing.  Another way of saying the same thing
is:

###
>>> def make_p(x):
...     def p():
...         print x
...     return p
... 
>>> l = []
>>> for i in range(5):
...     l.append(make_p(i))
... 
>>> for k in l: 
...     k()
... 
0
1
2
3
4
###


It's the issue of DEFINE vs. SET! --- the first assignment in Python
acts like DEFINE, and subsequence reassignments act like SET!.  So
just one thing to be careful about with assignment.


I hope this helps!


From brian at sweetapp.com  Sun Mar 21 22:59:22 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:59:22 -0800
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
In-Reply-To: <I6t7c.80655$u_5.47815@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <07f001c40fc2$0fe674d0$0000fea9@dell8200>

> I've found an easy and clean way to load and use modules that are loaded
> after a program has started when the name of the module can not be
> pre-determined.
> 
> modname = 'usermodname'
> # load the module
> exec('import ' + modname)
> # alias the module
> usersmod = eval(modname)

Do you really think that is easier than:

usersmod = __import__(modname)

Cheers,
Brian




From clgonsal at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Mar 26 11:45:45 2004
From: clgonsal at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (C. Laurence Gonsalves)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:45:45 GMT
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list@python.org>
	<221dd125.0403041853.2c6eb5d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Z6Z8c.12598$w54.101656@attbi_s01>

On 4 Mar 2004 18:53:18 -0800, sb <spam_bait101 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  Thanks, but that is more like a very abbreviated tutorial. Where can I
>  can the real documentation? It seems like the python built into vim is
>  different. For example, doing
>  
> :py import sys
> :py dir(sys)
>  
>  produces no output. Odd.

The statement 'dir(sys)' doesn't produce any output in Python. What's
confusing you is that the interactive mode of the python interpreter
prints the values of expression statements, if the value is not None.
That's a feature of the interactive mode though, not of Python, the
language.

You can verify this for yourself by creating a little script:

  import sys
  dir(sys)

Copy the above to a file, test.py. The lines should not be indented, of
course. Then execute 'python test.py' from the shell. Note the lack of
output.

In vim, just as in Python scripts, if you want output you need to
explicitly ask for it. So try the following in vim:

  :py import sys
  :py print dir(sys)

BTW, the "python built into vim" is really just the normal python
interpreted, embedded in vim. Everything you know about the Python
language still holds. The main differences are that it doesn't have the
same sort of "interactive mode" that the python interpreter has, and you
have access to he vim module. Documentation for the latter can be found
by executing ':help python-vim'. Yes, the documentation is brief, but it
is fairly complete, as far as I can tell.


From adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 23:03:46 2004
From: adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com (Adelein and Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:03:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
Message-ID: <20040331040346.88700.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to P?draig Brady, Joakim Hove, Peter Otten, and Mel Wilson for
taking time to respond to my request. I learned quite a bit.

I have downloaded the rotagator tarball and am in the process of
investigating the source code to pick up some ideas, and will
recommend it to my friends who use the Mozilla mail client.

As for the other suggestions:

(JH)> Using the same variable name with only difference in
(JH)> capitalization I consider very bad taste. I would suggest using
(JH)> for instance the variable name 'default_fortunes_file' instead
(JH)> of FORTUNES_FILE.

I am inclined to agree with you in general, but as I am in the habit
of treating my default values as constants (all-caps), I have also
developed the habit of naming their variable counterparts with the
same words, but lowercase. My rationale was that the two names
represent exactly the same idea, but in different circumstances. I am
of the opinion that even better than this, and better than your
suggested change, is to just use the same identifier to begin with.

> > fp_entry = [0]
> 
(JH)> You probably want to start with an *empty* list, not a list
(JH)> with '0' as the first element, i.e.
(JH)> 
(JH)> fp_entry = []

In fact, I did intend to have 0 as the first element. My thinking is
thus: the first entry in the fortunes file is not preceded by a '%',
and therefore will not be found by the code that follows unless I
include 0 as one of the possible fp values. I do not know perl, and
am not an experienced programmer, so in thinking that this was the
reason for ESR's similar use, I may be proceeding from a position of
ignorance.

> > fortune = ''
> > line = fi.readline()
> > while line != '':
> >     if re.match(r'^%$', line):
> >         break
> >     fortune += line
> >     line = fi.readline()
> > print fortune
> 
(JH)> Wouldn't it be more natural to look for '%' instead of blank
(JH)> lines:
(JH)> 
(JH)> <Untested>
(JH)> fortune = ''
(JH)> line = fi.readline()
(JH)> while line:
(JH)>     if re.match(r'^%$',line):
(JH)>         break
(JH)>     fortune += line
(JH)>     line = fi.readline()
(JH)> </Untested>

Yes, but I can't seem to get it through my thick skull that Python
was designed well enough to allow me to use datatypes sensibly as
booleans. (By the way, the code has now been tested and [predictably]
found to work.)

(JH)> I like to close the files explicitly, like you do. However it
is
(JH)> not really necessary, they are closed automatically (by the
(JH)> garbage collector I guess).

I know it's not necessary, but it does no harm (right?) and I think
it's a good habit to get myself into, so that I do not try
scripting-style file processing in a language like C (when I get to
that) where it could bite me (or other users) hard.

(JH)> Repositioning the

I wish this hadn't been cut off - I assume that I was going to
receive some information on repositioning the file pointer. Is it
unnecessary to reposition the file pointer, or is it redundant (in
that it is done upon closing the file)?

> > # Let's see if we can open that file for reading
> > try:
> >     fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
> > except:
> 
(PO)> Make it a rule to catch something, e. g.
(PO)> 
(PO)> try:
(PO)>    ...
(PO)> except IOError:
(PO)>    ...
(PO)> 
(PO)> That reduces the chance that an unexpected error is mapped to
(PO)> something else.

I am sure that many would say that this is too simple and little a
script to be doing much exception handling beyond basics, but I am
glad you saw the intent of my request.

So if I am understanding correctly, I want to do the following:

try:
    fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
except IOError:
    sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)

Out of curiosity, what else could the error be mapped to, and how
does that work, or where can I go to read up on such issues? Also, in
this particular case, where I am simply exiting the program with an
error message, could the error possibly be mapped to anything else,
and if so, would it really matter?

> > # Return fp to beginning of file, close the file, and exit
> program
> > fi.seek(0,0)
> 
(PO)> Code has no effect. I would remove it.

This has no effect because once the program exits, the file pointer
dies, or for another reason?

> 
> > fi.close()
> > sys.exit()
> 
(PO)> No need to call sys.exit() here.
(PO)> 
(PO)> My impression is that you are messing with file "pointers" too
(PO)> much which I would consider rather low-level. For C this is OK
(PO)> as it has no decent support for strings, but in Python I would
(PO)> suggest to relax and process the whole file as a string or list
(PO)> of lines.

You are correct. My intention was to perform a direct Perl to Python
translation from a slightly modified version of ESR's script. Since I
am not very well-acquainted with Perl, this alone caused me a bit of
headache.

However, this raises new questions for me. Reading the file into a
data structure (whatever that structure may be) seems to be good for
two reasons: 1) I needn't keep the file open for longer than
necessary, and 2) less time is wasted waiting for I/O to access the
file. But the way I have it also reads the pertinent parts of the
file into a data structure, and then processes those. Because I am
not processing the file, and because I need not read the whole file
contents in, I thought that this method of using file pointers would
be more efficient. What do you think? Also, my thinking is that the
file that this script works on may be very large. At what point do
the memory requirements of reading the contents of all of those files
into a structure outweigh the read I/O access times for retrieving
all relevant possible file pointer positions and then reading once
more to find that one fp position, and if it ever does, is not a more
scalable approach to use file pointer positions from the start? 
 
(MW)> Or I could see (untested code)
(MW)> 
(MW)> import random, sys
(MW)> 
(MW)> def fortunes (infile):
(MW)>     return infile.read().split ('\n%\n')
(MW)> 
(MW)> def findfortune (filename):
(MW)>     return random.choice (fortunes (file (filename, 'rt'))
(MW)> 
(MW)> if __name__ == '__main__':
(MW)>     print findfortune (sys.argv[1])

This is impressive for its brevity, but my question about the memory
efficiency of storing the entire contents of large files applies.
Also, what is 'tr' in the arguments list for file()? I looked up
file() in the library reference and it doesn't mention t - only a, b,
r, w, +, and U. A typo, or something I am unaware of?

(PO)> That's what I meant with "in Python I would suggest to relax
(PO)> and process the whole file as a string or list of lines" in my
(PO)> above post.

(PO)> Here's a different approach that reads fortunes one at a time
(PO)> with a generator function that collects lines until it
(PO)> encounters a "%\n". I'm using an algorithm to choose a random
(PO)> fortune that was posted on c.l.py by Paul Rubin....
(PO)>
(PO)> import random, sys
(PO)> 
(PO)> def fortunes(infile):
(PO)>     """ Yield fortunes as lists of lines """
(PO)>     result = []
(PO)>     for line in infile:
(PO)>         if line == "%\n":
(PO)>             yield result
(PO)>             result = []
(PO)>         else:
(PO)>             result.append(line)
(PO)>     if result:
(PO)>         yield result
(PO)> 
(PO)> def findfortune(filename):
(PO)>     """ Pick a random fortune from a file """
(PO)>     for index, fortune in enumerate(fortunes(file(filename))):
(PO)>         if random.random() < (1.0 / (index+1)):
(PO)>             chosen = fortune
(PO)> 
(PO)>     return "".join(chosen)
(PO)> 
(PO)> if __name__ == "__main__":
(PO)>     print findfortune(sys.argv[1]),

The randomization in findfortune() is interesting and would never
have occurred to me. The problem with it (as I see it - I could be
wrong) is that it results in a sub-pseudo random choice, as I can
easily imagine that entries towards the end of a large file will be
much less likely to be chosen due to the randomizer being applied not
to a set but to each element of the set, and because a positive for
any element means that none of the following elements are considered
for randomization, the result could well be that some entries will
effectively never be chosen.

(PO)> The point of my solution is to never have (a) the whole file in
(PO)> memory and (b) to make a random choice from a set of
(initially)
(PO)> unknown size while you go through it.

This is a very interesting solution in light of point (b), but of
course I will always know the size of the set as long as it comes
from a file. As for point (a), in the case that the last entry of a
file is chosen, wouldn't the whole file then have been in memory at
the same time, or do values returned by generators die right after
their use? In addition, simply opening the file puts its entire
contents into memory, does it not? (So this runs counter to what I
said about I/O access times for opened files - please set me straight
one way or the other; are file objects created with their contents
loaded into memory, or do their contents remain in storage until
needed?)

In any case, the idea of avoiding the storage of the file's contents
in memory is (as I understand it) the reason for using a list of file
positions.

Thank you very much for your feedback. I am learning...

- Jeremy
adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar  8 21:32:35 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:32:35 -0800
Subject: Recursive function always returns None
References: <pan.2004.03.09.01.16.40.825600@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <404D2CC3.DC59B169@alcyone.com>

Patrick LeGresley wrote:

> I have a sample piece of code for which I can't understand why it
> returns the output it does.  I am running Python 2.3.2 on Redhat
> Linux 8.0 (x86 hardware).  Here is the code and output:
> 
> granada 6% cat tmp.py
> def test(astring):
> 
>         if (len(astring) >= 30):
>                 print 'astring =',astring
>                 return astring
>         else:
>                 astring = astring + astring
>                 test(astring)

The else branch doesn't return anything, it just recursively calls
itself and disposes of the output.  For this last line, you meant:

	return test(astring)

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer but
    the right answer. -- John F. Kennedy


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 16:17:54 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:17:54 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16466.10498.886798.657743@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dave> Another "brute force" kind of solution would be to replace the old
    Dave> objects with links to the new.  Every refence, no matter where it
    Dave> came from, would be re-routed.  The inefficiency would only last
    Dave> until you restart the program.

That would require that you be able to transmogrify an object into a proxy
of some sort without changing its address.  In theory I think this could be
done, but not in pure Python.  It would require a helper written in C.

Skip




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 09:53:25 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:53:25 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roger Binns wrote:

> You are considering Python .pyc files and Java class files to be
> the same thing.  They aren't.  

They're not 'the same thing'.  They are roughly analogous to one
another though, wouldn't you say?

 > pyc files are a behind the scenes
> implementation detail of one version of the Python interpreter
> that are automatically generated and maintained.

Huh??  .pyc files are an "implementation detail of the Python
interpreter"?   Care to expound further?  'Coz that sounds
pretty nonsensical...


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 07:55:09 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:55:09 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <40681CAD.6050303@stackless.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Mutability is an interesting area.  I just added an unmutable bit in the
> Prothon internal object which makes the read_lock call a no-op and causes a
> write_lock call to throw an exception.  This makes the object
> write-protected and makes the lock code run much faster.
> 
> I did this for internal performance reasons, but after doing it I realize
> that extending it to the Ruby freeze() level would be really good.  Tying
> the freezing in somehow to the bang! methods is also in interesting area of
> research.
> Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)
> 
> P.S. If this belongs in the Prothon list instead of Python, let us know.

Allthough I'm a known Python-addict, I find this very interesting.
Being prototyped instead of class based was one of the features
of JavaScript, which were concidered "deficiencies". Well, I didn't
share this so much, there are many other much worse problems.

I'm eager to learn how a real language develops if it consequently
builds upon prototypes. Especially this one, since it is stackless
by nature. :-)

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From no at sp.am  Wed Mar  3 17:13:55 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:13:55 -0600
Subject: MVC-type Framework in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lcqdncL0NtM-xdvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>


> I'm looking for something that can help build
> interface-independent applications, with all logic in a central place.
> There would typically be a GUI interface, character interface and
> web-based interface, all accessing the same python logic.
> The interfaces need not be python-specific. I would like, for example, to
> have an existing PHP website access the same logic.

If you want a PHP website to be able to access it as well as a python 
web or desktop application, you might try something like XML-RPC.
Some python examples:
http://www.pythonware.com/products/xmlrpc/
http://www.quixote.ca/qx/XmlRpcInterface
That last example uses the python-based Quixote web framework.

An alternative to XML-RPC is REST:
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/rest_howto.html


> Is it feasible to have python extract validation rules from the database
> (e.g. a varchar(20) field) and pass that through to a gui interface that
> would limit the amount of characters entered to 20? If you then change the
> database field to a varchar(30), the change should be
> detected without having to change any other code.

Usually the validation is separate from the database.  For example, how 
would you specify that a field contains an email address or a phone number.

To make a quick web front-end to a database without any programming you 
can use the PHP-based dadabik: http://www.dadabik.org/

But in python, see formencode & SQLobject:
http://formencode.org/
http://sqlobject.org/


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  2 09:55:48 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:55:48 -0600
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
In-Reply-To: <c226rk$8u5$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.3.1078182801.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<c226rk$8u5$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040302145548.GB22280@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 03:48:19PM +0100, Peter Otten wrote:
> Do you have a class with immutable instances handy where the following
> assertion fails?
> 
> assert immutableObj.__class__(immutableObj) is immutableObj

Python 2.3.2 (#1, Oct 17 2003, 10:41:07) 
>>> import sets
>>> ii = sets.ImmutableSet([1,2,3])
>>> ii.__class__(ii) is ii
False

Jeff



From bad_addy at no_domain.com  Tue Mar 16 15:38:13 2004
From: bad_addy at no_domain.com (Tina)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:38:13 GMT
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
Message-ID: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi,

I was wondering if there is a way to insert dynamic program code as data.
For some reason I'm thinking Python does this. But I may be confused with
another language or the article itself. I do think I could do this calling
Python thru C, but that seems a bit clunky.

I'm including some of my code to learn stuff as well in case there's a
better way to do things then how I currently am.

The program is a simple RPG character creator. (In this case from the
Stormbringer 4th Ed RPG) In this, each character has a nation they hail
from with attribute modifiers. These mods are listed under each nation as:

d100 to determine nation, nation name, 
[att # to mod, # of dice, die type, final static bonus]

The problem is there's a bunch of "what if's" that are comming up. Not only
for the nation list, but especially the character background list which is
different for most nations and based on different attributes mixed with
rolls. My initial thought is to include this list as a sub-list within the
main nation list.

One "what if" is for Myrrhyn women to have +1d6 CHA. Now I could put this in
the main code but I'm trying to make the basic generator as generic as
possible for re-use.

Any help is appreciated!

Tina

stats = ["STR","CON","SIZ","INT","POW","DEX","CHA"]

nation = [
  [2,"Melnibone",3,1,10,0,4,2,6,0,2,0,0,3],
  [5,"Pan Tang",3,1,8,0,4,1,8,0,2,0,0,1],
  [8,"Myrrhyn",3,1,6,0,4,1,6,0],
  [11,"Dharijor",1,1,4,0],
  [16,"Jharkor",5,1,4,0,6,1,-4,0],
  [24,"Shazaar",1,1,6,0],
  [29,"Tarkesh",1,1,4,0,2,0,0,-1],
  [37,"Vilmir"],
  [44,"Ilmiora",6,1,4,0],
  [49,"Nadsokor",1,1,6,0,6,1,-6,0],
  [56,"Weeping Waste",0,1,6,0,1,1,6,0,2,0,0,-1,5,1,4,0,6,1,-4,0],
  [60,"Eshmir",2,0,0,-2,3,1,4,0,4,1,6,0],
  [67,"Island of Purple Towns",0,1,4,0,1,1,6,0],
  [74,"Argimiliar"],
  [81,"Pikarayd",0,2,4,0,2,0,0,+1],
  [88,"Lormyr",3,1,-4,0,2,0,0,+2],
  [95,"Filkhar",5,1,4,0],
  [97,"Oin",1,1,6,0,3,1,-6,0,4,1,-6,0,5,1,-6,0],
  [99,"Yu",0,1,6,0,1,1,6,0,3,1,6,0,4,1,-6,0,6,1,-6,0],
  [100,"Org",0,1,4,0,1,1,8,0,2,0,0,-2,3,1,-6,0,4,2,-4,0,5,1,-6,0,6,2,-4,0]
 ]



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 11:33:15 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:33:15 -0600
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
In-Reply-To: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
References: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
Message-ID: <16480.26315.855007.327209@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Robert> I have python related stuff on some of my web pages.  This month
    Robert> "The Python Robot" is going for over 400 MB / 4000 accesses
    Robert> downloads in my stats ! increasing frequency the last months!?
    Robert> thats 25x more than Google Bot & Inktomi Slurp - the second
    Robert> loquacious.

    Robert> These numbers a going to cause substantial server cost. Why does
    Robert> "The Python Robot" need to scan my pages 20 times a day? How can
    Robert> I cool down this special bot a little bit ( robots.txt ? )

What's "The Python Robot"?  Have you contacted the author/maintainer?  Have
you tried blocking the IP address it's coming from?  If it's ill-behaved
there's a good chance it will ignore robots.txt.

Skip




From jf505 at yahoo.de  Tue Mar  9 11:58:18 2004
From: jf505 at yahoo.de (Joerg Fischer)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 16:58:18 GMT
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2kt3a$1ufrfs$1@ID-216558.news.uni-berlin.de>

* Jim Benson wrote:
> Nedit has all but item 5.

Nobody keeps you from writing your own python-mode.nm, if using
ctags isn't satisfying enough.

Cheers,
J?rg

-- 
Niki -- The NEdit WiKi:
http://www.nr.no/~joachim/Niki/


From newsreply at transfertech.de  Thu Mar 11 10:50:06 2004
From: newsreply at transfertech.de (Axel Mittendorf)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:50:06 +0100
Subject: [PyQT] QSocketNotifier problem
Message-ID: <c2q1jl$oks$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi, I have a pyqt app which reads data from a fifo ( created with mkfifo)
and displays it
in a text field. I use PyQT 3.8.1 and QT 3.2.2 on SuSE Linux 7.0. I open the
fifo with os.open and create a QSocketNotifier (for reading). Other
processes write into
the fifo (I can do 'echo "hello" > /tmp/myfifo' for example), the activated
event of the QSocketNotifier comes and the data is written out. This
works without problems. BUT when the last process that writes into that
fifo exits, the activated event seems to come "always", about 10000 times
per second. What causes this behavior?

Is it a bad idea to use a SocketNotifier for a fifo?
BTW I used a QTimer before but I was ordered to use a SocketNotifier
instead (not my idea;-).

TIA, Axel




From wfolta at netmail.to  Mon Mar  1 11:12:40 2004
From: wfolta at netmail.to (Wayne Folta)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:12:40 -0500
Subject: Why Python?
In-Reply-To: <2rI0c.175350$Po1.95713@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<2rI0c.175350$Po1.95713@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4398DAEA-6B9B-11D8-9B35-000A959CB2EC@netmail.to>

    everything

But you were expecting that.

How about

    everything in every way in all situations

The bottom line is python is a clear, powerful language that has a 
great culture. You have a choice:

1. You want to learn the "perfect" language for each project at hand. 
Even if you're good at learning new languages -- as I think I am -- 
it's still going to take you a while to be idiomatic in the language 
instead of, say, programming perl in python.

Not to mention that finding the "perfect" language can take quite some 
time for each project. You'll have language advocates on each side of 
the issue. Is this project a natural fit for lisp? Oh, no, ruby's much 
more practical for this. Yes, but foobar has a package for doing 
exactly what you want. Blah, blah...

2. Learn a general-purpose language that can be easily used with many 
different paradigms (OO, functional, etc), has a good library set 
(network, math, etc), and has a flexible culture. This language should 
be reasonably well-known so you can find it widely, can find books on 
it, etc.

Some might say that perl 6 will be the epitome of #2, though my opinion 
is that perl will manage to implement #1 in a single language.

If you want to go with option #2, python's at the top of the list, in 
my opinion.

(Actually, there is a #3: you want to be highly marketable. Depending 
on where you want to work, the language de jour is likely to be C++, 
Java, or Visual Basic.)




From gsmith at oxfam.org.uk  Fri Mar 12 12:40:35 2004
From: gsmith at oxfam.org.uk (Graham)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:40:35 -0000
Subject: UNC paths in file object open
Message-ID: <4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>

I ma trying to open a file on a network share

ie \\servername\share\folder\file

afile = open( \\server\share\folder\file, "r" )

have also tried
afile = open( //server/share/folder/file, "r" ) # as per the Python cookbook
advice on page 113 namely " use / regardless of the proclivities of the
underlying operating system".

Neither work.

I am running python on XP and accessing win 2000 share.

Thanks for any help

Graham Smith

PeopleSoft Technical Team Leader
OXFAM GB
+44 (1865) 313255
gsmith at oxfam.org.uk





From eric at lentil.com  Fri Mar 19 06:45:44 2004
From: eric at lentil.com (Eric)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:45:44 GMT
Subject: translating "setattr" to C++
Message-ID: <87oeqtkruw.fsf@subopt.austin.rr.com>

Slightly off topic, i know, but here goes:

I'm trying to xlate a module of mine to C++. Only problem is, it makes
heavy use of "setattr". Anyone know a straightforward way to do
"setattr" in C++ ?

thanks,
Eric


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Mar  6 17:05:38 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 07 Mar 2004 00:05:38 +0200
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<cr9k4015r8nc2a0ffheih0p2c6vj6rrcip@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du7smglfx71.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "David" == David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

    David> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:15:44 +0000, Jonathon McKitrick
    David> <jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org> wrote:

    David> I believe the licensing issue with Qt is overblown.  If
    David> your work is purely non-commercial, use the GPL license.
    David> If you are a typical commercial developer, it should be no
    David> problem to pay $1550 per developer license (no runtime
    David> royalties).  I've heard there are problems for commercial
    David> developers who can't afford the $1550.  I would say, don't
    David> worry.  If your project fails to make a profit, I really
    David> doubt Trolltech is going to sue you.  I think they would be
    David> quite happy to get the first $1550 of any successful
    David> project.

So you urge people to break copyright law until they can afford to pay
the license? I would expect such a behaviour to prove extremely
problematic and dangerous.

I would suggest instead that all the "valuable", back end parts of a
program be coded UI-independently (good idea in any case), and then
finally GUI is tacked on by connecting it to the back end via CORBA
(or equivalent). That way the GUI (which is worthless w/o the back
end) can be GPL'd.

OTOH, I would probably just use GTK or wxPython. In fact, I wouldn't
even bother learning Qt - GPL or a crapload of Euros probably won't be
terms an average employer would approve (esp. if you have to use
Windows at work), so Qt would be restricted to home use alone.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Mar 20 10:38:05 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:38:05 -0500
Subject: [snip too-long subject]
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.149.1079674608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7jxhuuex.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dVGXAls/KHBK089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <7x7jxhuuex.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>Chris Gonnerman <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> writes:
>> > map, zip, sum, etc. are used in a large amount of production
>> > code. Moving them somewhere else would break every piece of code
>> > that uses them.  This is not going to happen soon, possibly ever.
>>
>> I'm a bit confused, anyway.  When did functional programming become
>> outdated?
>
>Preferred style these days is to use list comprehensions instead of
>map and zip.

zip?  Do you mean filter?

        Regards.        Mel.


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Mar 18 18:28:05 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:28:05 +0100
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.0.0pre20
Message-ID: <mailman.1079795170.30801.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Find a new pre-release of python-ldap:

   http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

Changes:
Wrapped OpenLDAP's ldap_whoami_s(). Fixed incompability with OpenLDAP 2.2 
libs. Code cleaning.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.0.0pre20 2004-03-xx

Changes since 2.0.0pre19:

Modules/:
* Removed doc strings from functions.c
* Removed probably unused wrapper function l_ldap_dn2ufn() since
   ldap_dn2ufn() is deprecated in OpenLDAP 2.1+
* Removed wrapper function l_ldap_is_ldap_url().
* Removed macro add_int_r() from constants.c since it caused
   incompability issues with OpenLDAP 2.2 libs
   (Warning: all result types are Integers now! Use the constants!)
* New wrapper function l_ldap_whoami_s()

ldap.ldapobject:
* New wrapper method LDAPObject.whoami_s()

ldap.functions:
* Removed is_ldap_url(). The more general function
   ldapurl.isLDAPUrl() should be used instead.

ldap.sasl:
* Added class cram_md5 (for SASL mech CRAM-MD5)

ldap.async:
* Use constants for search result types (see note about
   add_int_r() above).



From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 06:54:34 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:54:34 GMT
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9 at posting.google.com>, Michele Simionato wrote:
> Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc6crti.dit.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
>> 
>> You could just put the function call in your base class's __init__
>> method.  (Or, in fact, put the code from that call directly there, if
>> you only care when you inherit from the one Zope class.)
> 
> Uh? The base class __init__ method is not called when I derive a new
> class. I want to make the make the check at class level, *before*
> instantiating. 

It is if you call the inherited __init__ method, which you should be
doing because it probably does important stuff.

Why do you care whether it checks before instantiating the class, or
instantiates the class and then throws an error during __init__?  It's
not going to make any speed or memory difference to the successful case,
which is all you care about for performance.

Joe


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Mar 26 06:35:00 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:35:00 +0100
Subject: Converting IBM Floats..Help..
References: <mailman.406.1080229247.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40641706$0$133$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Ian Sparks" <Ian.Sparks at etrials.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to read from a file which contains numbers encoded in IBM360 (Big-Endian) Floating point format. The IBM stores its numbers in the following format :
>
>*
>* IBM format:
>* 6       5                 0
>* 3       1                 0
>*
>* SEEEEEEEMMMM ......... MMMM
>*
>* Sign bit, 7 bit exponent, 56 bit fraction. Exponent is
>* excess 64. The fraction is multiplied by a power of 16 of
>* the actual exponent. Normalized floating point numbers are
>* represented with the radix point immediately to the left of
>* the high order hex fraction digit.
>
>I know what's in this file so :
>
> data = list(file.read(8))
> print data
> 
> 155 = ['B', '\x9b', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00'] 
>  77 = ['B', 'M', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']
>   1 = ['A', '\x10', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']
>   0 = ['\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']

Some time ago there was a question on this group about 4-bytes IBM
floats, and maybe questions about other formats will follow in the
future. Here's a flexible -but possibly slow?- approach to handle
these kind of problems. It uses a stream of bytes (a file for example)
as input and returns a series of floats.

from itertools import islice

def _bits(i):
    return [('01'[i>>j & 1]) for j in range(8)][::-1] 

_table = dict([(chr(i),_bits(i)) for i in range(256)])

def bitstream(bytes):
    for byte in bytes:
        for bit in _table[byte]:
            yield bit
            
def groupby(gen,sizes):
    while 1:
        for size in sizes:
            yield islice(gen,size)

def tolongs(gen):
    def tolong(x): return long(''.join(x),2)
    for g in gen:
        try: yield map(tolong,g)
        except ValueError: break

def decode(gen):
    for sign, exponent, mantissa in gen:        
        sign = [1,-1][sign] 
        exponent = 16**(exponent & 0x7f -64)
        mantissa = mantissa/float(16**14)
        yield sign*exponent*mantissa
    
def float_decode(bytes):
    bits = bitstream(bytes)       # turn it into a stream of bits
    gb_1 = groupby(bits,[1,7,56]) # make groups of size 1,7 and 56
    gb_2 = groupby(gb_1,[3])      # group again, take 3 at a time
    gl = tolongs(gb_2)            # turn it into groups of three longs
    for f in decode(gl):          # turn 3 longs into a float
        yield f
        
def test():
    bytes = ('B\x9b\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
        'BM\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
        'A\x10\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
        '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00')
    for f in float_decode(bytes):
        print f

if __name__ == '__main__': 
    test()

output:

155.0
77.0
1.0
0.0

Anton





From chris at misery.net  Sun Mar  7 17:47:11 2004
From: chris at misery.net (christofer)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 14:47:11 -0800
Subject: How do I define a __del__ method for an object?
References: <404B7893.8060408@SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org>
Message-ID: <f8a2c52d.0403071447.39265b43@posting.google.com>

Stewart Midwinter <stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org> wrote in message news:<404B7893.8060408 at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org>...
> #!/usr/bin/python
> # Filename: objvar.py
> # from Swaroop's A Byte of Python, 
> # http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/byte/ch11s05.html
> 
> class Person:
>         '''class Person represents a person.'''
>         population = 0
>         
>         def __init__(self, name):
>                 '''Initializes the person.'''
>                 self.name = name
>                 print '(Initializing %s)' % self.name
>                 
>                 # When this person is created,
>                 # he/she adds to the population
>                 Person.population += 1
> 
> 	def sayHi(self):
>                 '''Method sayHi greets the other person.
>                 Really, that's all it does.'''
>                 print 'Hi, my name is %s.' % self.name
> 
>         
>         def howMany(self):
>                 '''Prints the current population.'''
>                 # There will always be atleast one person
>                 if Person.population == 1:
>                         print 'I am the only person here.'
>                 else:
>                         print 'We have %s persons here.' % \
>                         Person.population
> 
> 	def sayDie(self):
> 		'''when a person dies,
> 		   she reduces the population by one,
> 		   but she is still remembered.'''
> 		print self.name, 'has died.'
> 		Person.population -= 1
> 	
> 		
> 
> swaroop = Person('Swaroop')
> swaroop.sayHi()
> swaroop.howMany()
> 
> kalam   = Person('Abdul Kalam')
> kalam.sayHi()
> kalam.howMany()
> 
> swaroop.sayHi()
> swaroop.howMany()
> 
> kalam.sayDie()
> kalam.howMany()
> #kalam.__del__('Abdul Kalam')
> abdul = Person('Abdul')
> abdul.sayHi()
> abdul.howMany()
> print kalam.sayHi.__doc__
> print Person.__doc__
> 
> --

define this method (a destructor) in your class:

def __del__(self):
    do whatever here...


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Mar 10 07:00:19 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:19 +0100
Subject: name of this python program
References: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <404F0353.1050204@geochemsource.com>

>
>
>hi there
>
>when i start a python script with 
>        python myprog.py 
>how can i find out the name of my script ("myprog.py") inside the script
>itself. looking for something like args[0]...
>
>cheers, leo
>  
>
import sys
print sys.argv[0]

However, it can be wrong if you run it that way ('python myprog.py'). It 
works when you run it this way: 'myprog.py'.

Best,

G






From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 01:57:01 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:57:01 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c2rn5c$408$1@news.service.uci.edu>


 > I was 15 when I got my first computer, a 4k TRS-80 Model I with Level I
 > BASIC, cassette tape for storage. It was several years before I could 
afford
 > a system with a floppy drive, let alone a hard drive.. I spent nearly 
all my
 > free time for months teaching myself BASIC programing, mostly trial and
 > error. The book that came with my Model I was a great introduction to
 > programming.
 >
 > My 13 year old niece wants to learn programming. What's the best
 > introductory language for her?

Really, depending on what you want to teach her (programming is fun vs. 
programming can be a pain in the ass), that should define which language 
you should send her off to learn.

1. Teach her Scheme for a couple months to get her mind around the idea 
of recursion (very beneficial to all new programmers).
2. Spend a couple months teaching her C so that she gets the feeling for 
a statically typed system and dealing with pointers.
3. Spend a month teaching her object orientation with C++.
4. If you feel up for it (I wouldn't be), spend a couple weeks on Java.
5. Once she's feeling good with the ideas behind programming, spend an 
afternoon teaching her Python, and give her a week to convert everything 
she ever did to Python.
6. Reap the rewards of a Python convert.

  - Josiah


From malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar 12 10:12:04 2004
From: malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 07:12:04 -0800
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <d114ac8b.0403120712.c9ac3ec@posting.google.com>

Radovan Garabik <garabik at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk> wrote in message news:<c2pknt$1ur91f$1 at ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Uwe Mayer <merkosh at hadiko.de> wrote:
> > Hi,

> 
> besides, we are running out of ASCII

Simple, use Unicode. It is the shiny new boy in town.

Muhammad Alkarouri


From rupole at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 22:52:05 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:52:05 -0800
Subject: DLL version number
References: <8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404d1159_5@127.0.0.1>

You can use win32api.GetFileVersionInfo.
See /demos/getfilever.py for an example of how to use it.
       Roger

"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> If I have a Windows DLL file, how can I retrieve its version number
> (e.g.: 2.40.4275.1)? Does Win32 extensions, ctypes or related modules
> provide such a utility?
>
> regards,
>
> Hung Jung




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 18 16:39:23 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:39:23 +0200
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405A170B.5000400@zoran.com>

Hello Jason,

> I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
> implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
> (1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
> REALLY slow.
Did you use hotshot to find *where* you spend the time?

> class Point:
 > ...
I've found out the Python's faster with native types.
One thing is to use a tuple for the point and have functions like 
point_sub(p1, p2)

You can try and use Psyco, in several cases it gives a very big speedup.

HTH.
Miki


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Mar 24 05:30:39 2004
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:30:39 -0000
Subject: SMS with python
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01201109@intrepid>

From: Michael G. A. Sung [mailto:aisung at bubblemotions.com]
Anyone know how I can sent SMS with python script from desktop with a 
GSM phone attached let say a SE P900?
 
Chris Miles' Pagey (< http://psychofx.com/pagey/
<http://psychofx.com/pagey/> >) might suit.
 
Cheers, 
Simon B. 
simon at brunningonline.net 
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/>  





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From atulkshirsagar at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 12:52:42 2004
From: atulkshirsagar at yahoo.com (Atul Kshirsagar)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:52:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
Message-ID: <20040316175242.7263.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com>

Adding extra information,
This was working fine with Python 2.2.2.

Now desperate :) to get some help !
Atul

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From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar  3 16:01:24 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:01:24 -0800
Subject: Python for Beginners
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1078323081.727.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.15.1078323081.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c25h8a$j86$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python-seminar-210204/slides/pySlide1.jpg.htm

I notice that you took our advice on the errors with your original 
presentation, but still doesn't distinguish between mutable sequences 
(lists), immutable sequences(strings, tuples), and the fact that they 
are really able to do the same things.

The Python Tutorial is a much better introduction to the language.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

  - Josiah


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 14 18:12:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:12:19 +0100
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
References: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net> <c302qi$3lj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4053daa0_1@themost.net> <c311kc$l1h$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4054d4be$1_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <c32osk$5rl$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Paul Watson wrote:

> However, I am in a Python 2.1 environment.  Do you know of any techniques
> that would work under Python 2.1?

eval('"' + s + '"')

This of course requires that " chars occuring in s are preceded by a
backslash:

>>> def unescape(s):
...     return eval('"' + s + '"')
...
>>> unescape("\\x0a")
'\n'
>>> unescape("\\x0a'")
"\n'"
>>> unescape("\\x0a\"") 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in unescape
  File "<string>", line 1
    "\x0a""
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid token
>>> unescape('\\x0a\\"')
'\n"'

Peter



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 05:19:59 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:19:59 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <106alaf403jgs54@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c43dvk$adq$1 at nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>,
Tassilo v. Parseval <tassilo.parseval at post.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>Also sprach Fred Ma:
			.
			.
			.
>> purpose.  My area of research is in CAD algorithms,
>> and I'm sensing the need to resort to something more
>> expedient than C++, bash scripting, or sed scripting.
			.
			.
			.
>> One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
>> files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
>> hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
>> to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
>> The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
>> have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.  In the
>> past, I've eeked out sed scripts for such tasks, but
>> would appreciate a more traditional language.  Since
>> Perl is used alot in digital IC design, I took a stab
>> at that, motivated by the simple need to convert my
>> mail aliases from one mail reader to the other.  It
			.
			.
			.
>> The alternative is Python, which is easier to read
>> from what I've read.  My concern there is that I cut
>> myself off from large availability of stuff that's
>> out there.  For example, I use a PC-to-solaris
>> viewer called VNC, and I've banged my head against the
>> startup script to change it a bit for my situation.
			.
			.
			.
>work on the long run. I didn't know that Perl was particularly strong 
>in the field of IC design. If so, good then.
>
>Apart from this particular case, it's generally a good thing when
>pre-written code exists that can be used. The amount of such code for
>Perl is immense (several thousand libraries) and gathered all in one
>place (the CPAN) with a unified interface to access and install them and
>a vast infrastructure built around it.
			.
			.
			.
>> An additional usage scenario is to (if reasonable)
>> replace my shell scripting e.g. I just converted to
>> bash from tcsh to write scripts that push a document
>> through a series of filters, or simply as a wrapper
>> around a tough-to-use utility e.g. pstops.  A final
			.
			.
			.
>> destination blocks.  Typically, this information will
>> be read by matlab scripts and passed to my C++ code
>> (I've managed to avoid writing code to parse the
>> input file from C++).
			.
			.
			.
>> Whichever way I go, I would like to avoid the overhead
>> of learning both Perl and Python.  I will sculpt out some
>> time in a miserly fashion to slowly get to know one.  Since
>> I spend most of my time exploring the algorithm in Matlab or
>> C++/STL, there's only so much time to pick up higher level
>> languages (it took years before I shelled out the time
>> to switch from tcsh to bash).  One of the things that
>> makes the decision not clear is that despite Python's
>> claim to a gentler learning curve and clearer code, I
>> often like the expedience of sed e.g. a terse one-liner
>> that can be pipelined with other shell commands.  I
			.
			.
			.
Where to begin?  I'm seriously surprised that you haven't
mentioned Tcl, originally created to serve CAD needs, and
still more prevalent than either Perl or Python in CAD,
from all I know.  Perl is indeed present, too, although,
in some ways, PythonCAD <URL: http://www.pythoncad.org/ >
is the most interesting action in this domain.  All three
languages have enough to recommend them, and are close
enough in their capabilities, that I feel comfortable ad-
vising you to choose the one that suits *you* best.  If
you like thinking in Perl, choose that; you'll miss out
on a few Python capabilities, but you'll be as productive
as with any other choice.

Either Perl or Python is going to satisfy you for algorithmic
experiments much, MUCH more than Matlab or C++.  Make the
switch, *now*.

Either Perl or Python can adequately substitute for shell
in the uses you describe.  They pipeline fine themselves;
'fact, I'm working on an essay on how they're *better* at
pipelining.

"The translater is freeware, so has limitations ...":  I
don't understand how to read this.  Has it been your
experience that commercial CAD packages are perfect, and
without limitations?

I work with VNC a lot, too.  You seem to believe that 
there's a special relation between VNC and Perl; do I 
have that right?  That surprises me.  If anything, I'd
say Tcl leads in that domain <URL:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-vnc/ >.

I generally favor Python over Perl; in the absence of
more details, I think there's mild evidence that those
who don't specialize in programming are happier over the
long term with the readability of the former.  They're
very close, though.  The one most certain advantage 
Python boasts is a dimension that I'd think important
to you, although you haven't mentioned it:  Python's
interfaces to C++ are MUCH easier to manage than Perl's.
Perl6 will change this.  For now, though, it's FAR 
easier to practice "dual-level programming" with Python
and C++.  If you have a large existing library of C++
work, I think that tips the balance toward Python.
Understand, SWIG and other alternatives make Perl-to-C++
links possible; with Python's facilities, though,
including Pyrex, they're *fun*.

There's more to say; I'll be back later.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 17 11:36:25 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:36:25 -0600
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.17.09.26.45.125309@technology-network.de>
References: <pan.2004.03.17.09.26.45.125309@technology-network.de>
Message-ID: <20040317163624.GK2446@unpythonic.net>

The program below works fine on my system (redhat 9)

A few months ago, debian-specific threading problems in Python were
discussed.  If you're using Debian, maybe it's relevant:
  http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=a6562e06.0401021352.65aac82b%40posting.google.com

Jeff

import threading, os, signal, time

_shutdown = 0

class T(threading.Thread):
    def run(self):
        while not _shutdown:
            time.sleep(1)

def shutdown(signum, arg):
    global _shutdown
    print "Shutting down..."
    _shutdown = 1

def main():
    print "PID:", os.getpid()
    signal.signal(signal.SIGUSR1, shutdown)

    threads = [T(), T()]

    for th in threads:
        th.start()

    while not _shutdown:
        time.sleep(60)

if __name__ == '__main__': main()



From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Mon Mar 15 15:34:14 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:34:14 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <7de2e74a623ae9f3ff3fe9ae4e1ec2b4@news.teranews.com>
	<mailman.12.1079347634.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33050191d089334e5cd83520fec66c45@news.teranews.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:47:08 +0000 (GMT), Premshree Pillai
<premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

>>>I do not think forced *declaration* is important,
>>>except perhaps in
>>>C/++/#/Java, Pascal, Ada, etc.  
>
>Why the discrimination? Considering programming
>languages in general, what do you have to say with
>forced declaration?
>
>I don't think the discrimination is justified
>considering that all of them belong to the
>procedural/OOP (read same) paradigm.

    I was being half-facetious.  I would have included languages 
from other paradigms if I knew ones that required declaring 
variable names.  (They probably exist, but I don't know them.)
    It is important in those languages because they require it to
compile/execute.  I.e., you can't write a valid program in those
languages without statically declaring the variable names.  In
addition, you must declare their compile-time (static) type.  Those
are separate things, though part of a single statement in those
languages.

    --dang


From beliavsky at aol.com  Mon Mar  1 13:46:06 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 10:46:06 -0800
Subject: default print format for floats
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403011046.4238998d@posting.google.com>

By default, Python prints many floating point numbers with 17 digits
after the decimal place. I would like to make the DEFAULT 4 decimal
places. Is this possible?

For example, the code 

from string import join
x = [1.0,0.3,0.4]
print x
print join(["%4.1f" % y for y in x])

gives the output

[1.0, 0.29999999999999999, 0.40000000000000002]
 1.0  0.3  0.4

I want the simplicity of "print x", without so many decimal places.


From mmaru at visiontv.ca  Wed Mar  3 14:18:02 2004
From: mmaru at visiontv.ca (Maru, Mulugeta)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:18:02 -0500
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
Message-ID: <5E62CFE4CB546F44ADCABD9852C2C8EC048C8D@email.toronto.visiontv.ca>

Is there a turorial on MySQL/Python?

VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television network.



From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Mar 25 05:50:01 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:50:01 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
In-Reply-To: <c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>
	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Peter Otten a ?crit :
> Pascal wrote:
> 
> 
>>How can I do to simulate this way:
>>'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
>>I tried with a 'slice' but this didn't run:
>>[item for item in 'aabbcc'[::2]] -> ['a', 'b', 'c']
> 
> [...]

 >>> import re
 >>> re.findall(".{2}","aabbccdd")
['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd']
 >>> re.findall(".{2}","aabbccdde")
['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd']

Yermat



From jason at tishler.net  Tue Mar  9 15:18:14 2004
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:18:14 -0500
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
In-Reply-To: <12dq1z2aca4l2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<12dq1z2aca4l2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <20040309201814.GE2508@tishler.net>

Thorsten,

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:30:24AM +0100, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> This helped with the IPython problem, thanks.

You are quite welcome.

> Unfortunately idle under Cygwin has the same problem. I rebased the
> five TclTk dlls but that didn't changed the error ("os error: resource
> temporarily unavailable").

The best (or at least easiest) approach is to just rebase all of your
DLLs -- use rebaseall.

> For obvious reason I didn't want to rebase the whole Cygwin
> installation because that would break a lot of things...

Can you be more specific?  We cannot address issues if we do not know
what they are.

Thanks,
Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Mar 15 11:40:30 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:40:30 -0300
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
In-Reply-To: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20040315164030.GF2705@burma.localdomain>

> I'm writing a fractal-generating program in a mixture of C and
> Python. Python handles all the GUI parts using PyGTK. After finishing
> the calculations, I have a buffer containing the RGB data of the
[...]

Here is something I've used in an application some time ago. Not
sure if this is what you want, but will give you a hint.

loader = gtk.gdk.PixbufLoader("jpeg")
loader.write(data)
loader.close()
pixbuf = loader.get_pixbuf()

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 06:57:19 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:57:19 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0403142301.5ee6bad7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<grn4c.2753$G3.22466@localhost>
	<ba1450tvgdttth3ddu88qjevsv9k5b1tpb@4ax.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403142301.5ee6bad7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16469.39455.255804.767204@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Hung Jung> But it is true that in Python you have to implement dynamic
    Hung Jung> refreshing of behavior (module or class) explicitly, whereas
    Hung Jung> in Ruby, as I understand, class behavior refreshing is
    Hung Jung> automatic.

That has its own attendant set of problems.  If an instance's state is
created with an old version of a class definition, then updated later to
refer to a new version, who's to say that the current state of the instance
is what you would have obtained had the instance been created using the new
class from the start?

Skip



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar  5 18:01:33 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:01:33 -0800
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <404846CB.20809@epfl.ch>
References: <20040304190419.20224.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>	<40478323.4060604@aon.at>
	<mailman.6.1078429638.679.python-list@python.org>
	<404846CB.20809@epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <c2b11l$68i$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Guillermo Fernandez Castellanos wrote:
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>>     >>> if sig not in d.keys():
>> vs.
>>     >> if sig not in d.iterkeys():
>> vs.
>>     if sig not in d:
>> The first must build the list of keys then search it sequentially.  The
>> second doesn't have to build the entire list, but still searches
>> sequentially.  The third effectively tries d[sig] and catches the 
>> KeyError
>> exception of sig is not a key in d.  The third is O(1) in the general 
>> case.
>> The others are O(len(d)).
> 
> Are all this also true for 'for' loops?
> 
> G.

For loops iterate.

for i in dict:
     pass

for i in dict.keys():
     pass

The dict.keys() generates the list of all keys (which takes time and 
memory), but the other doesn't.  What you do /inside/ the loop will 
determine which one is really faster.  EG:

for i in dict:
     break

for i in dict.keys():
     break

Obviously the first one will be faster, because i will just get a value, 
then the loop ends itself (if there are objects in the dictionary).  On 
the other hand, the second still has to build the list.

Testing for membership (if i in j) has different semantics than looping 
over an iterable (for i in j).

  - Josiah


From cwilbur at mithril.chromatico.net  Mon Mar 29 02:14:42 2004
From: cwilbur at mithril.chromatico.net (Charlton Wilbur)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:14:42 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b8ptboh4ig4a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87ptawf7rj.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>

>>>>> "CL" == Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> writes:

    CL> Try 'em both briefly, choose one that makes a
    CL> good impression, and get back to your engineering work.
    CL> You'll be glad you upgraded to a 'P' language.  

You, sir, have written a clear, fair-minded, and reasonable post.  The
Backbone Cabal will be revoking your Usenet license shortly.

(I concur, by the way: Python has a couple of traits that would drive
me, with close to 10 years of Perl experience, bonkers; but they don't
drive everyone bonkers, and they obviously suit some people, or they
wouldn't be in the language.  The OP ought to spend a couple weeks
playing with each language and pick the one that seems to suit his
style better.)

Charlton

-- 
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com


From guillermo.fernandez at epfl.ch  Fri Mar  5 04:22:19 2004
From: guillermo.fernandez at epfl.ch (Guillermo Fernandez Castellanos)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:22:19 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1078429638.679.python-list@python.org>
References: <20040304190419.20224.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>	<40478323.4060604@aon.at>
	<mailman.6.1078429638.679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404846CB.20809@epfl.ch>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     >>> if sig not in d.keys():
> vs.
>     >> if sig not in d.iterkeys():
> vs.
>     if sig not in d:
> The first must build the list of keys then search it sequentially.  The
> second doesn't have to build the entire list, but still searches
> sequentially.  The third effectively tries d[sig] and catches the KeyError
> exception of sig is not a key in d.  The third is O(1) in the general case.
> The others are O(len(d)).
Are all this also true for 'for' loops?

G.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 18 08:51:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:51:25 -0500
Subject: Hiding console window
In-Reply-To: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pdKdnSucPq3BNMTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Lucas Raab wrote:

> I'm looking to play a joke on a friend and I'm wondering if there's a way to
> not show or hide the DOS console. My friend doesn't have python so I have to
> compile it to an EXE.

Use py2exe to compile Python programs to EXEs.

You would need to define what "hide" means to you to get a useful answer 
to the first part of the question.  I would just click on the "close" 
gadget in the upper right corner, if I wanted to "hide" a DOS console...

-Peter


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Wed Mar 10 12:09:44 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:09:44 GMT
Subject: Python bindings for lsh (lshg)?
Message-ID: <1gu3i1-7q6.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

I just learned of the gateway mode that lsh (GNU's ssh client) provides.
	http://cvs.lysator.liu.se/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/lsh/doc/gateway-mode.txt?cvsroot=lsh&rev=1.2

I've had a need for reuse of SSH sessions that I originally solved with a
horrible hack to ssh code.  Recently I've been trying to use Twisted Conch
to accomplish the same thing.  I still like this pure Python approach 
(although it's going to take me a long time to understand Twisted) but I
think that leaving the connection to lsh and just doing channel-specific
handling through Python is a good fit.

So...I'm trying to decide how to attack this.  I suspect I'll need to
piece together lshg (the gateway client) code with Python (using Pyrex?)
on my own, but I'll be thrilled to hear that someone else has already
done the work.  (I'm not finding it in searches.)

Thank you.

--kyler


From nir1408 at ziaran.org  Tue Mar  2 03:18:38 2004
From: nir1408 at ziaran.org (ziaran)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:18:38 +0200
Subject: Jython Debugger?
In-Reply-To: <c21b0h$2re$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<c21b0h$2re$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <4044435E.6090100@ziaran.org>

F. GEIGER wrote:
> I'm looking for such a thing too. All I've found so far is an announcement
> of an Eclipse plugin.
> 
> Regards
> Franz GEIGER
> 
> "max khesin" <max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:jkL0c.94$c73.143227 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
> 
>>Hi all,
>>I was takling to someone who has been using Jython for a while. Their
>>biggest complaint is the luck of a good debugger. I was really
>>surprised. Isn't there anything decent out there?
>>thanks,
>>max
> 
> 
> 

try rpdb.py
you can get it at:
http://ziaran.org/rpdb.htm



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Thu Mar  4 00:58:37 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:58:37 -0800
Subject: py2exe in Windowsxp
In-Reply-To: <38f75b16.0403032012.646eb85@posting.google.com>
References: <38f75b16.0403022320.1f56ce00@posting.google.com>	<brneiciy.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.4.1078301717.727.python-list@python.org>
	<38f75b16.0403032012.646eb85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c26gnk$op6$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Does this mean that it is supported but you can't update this
> information in the homepage in SF?

As stated, it means that Sourceforge does not have a category that lists 
"Windows 98/98/ME/NT/2000/XP/2003"

They have:
Windows 3.1 or earlier
Windows 95/98/2000
Windows CE
Windows NT/2000

Seemingly the most broad is 95/98/2000, as it spans both the 95/98 
kernel and the 2000 kernel (derivative of the NT kernel).

  - Josiah


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 28 23:22:34 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:22:34 -0500
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
References: <c47mnp+dot0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c488a3$s2v$1@sea.gmane.org>


"BALAJI RAMAN" <balajibalaraman2001 at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:c47mnp+dot0 at eGroups.com...
> class V(E):
>     """ This is a variable for MPY"""
>     def __init__(self):
>         print id(self)
>         check=[]
>         check.append(id(self))
>         self.val = None

Objects ids are pretty useless.  I suspect that you actually want a list of
objects, not a list of ids.  In other words, after you move the check
initialization outside of __init__, check.append(self) instead.

Terry J. Reedy






From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Mar 10 03:00:07 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 03:00:07 EST
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
In-Reply-To: <404EB8DC.2010002@zoran.com>
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
	<mailman.196.1078884831.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<3af2i1-c1i1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
	<404EB8DC.2010002@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <7eu2i1-g3m1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Miki Tebeka wrote:

> Hello Tim,
> 
>> How about something like this:
>> -------------------------------
>> ...
> 
> See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/231516 
> (shameless propaganda :-)
> 
> HTH.
> Miki

Hi Miki -

I considred something like this, but I don't actually want a full blown
language available to the end-user.  Too easy for them to blow things
up.  I am working on something that is essentially almost entirely
a lexical substitution (aka macro) engine.  The only "logic" will be
conditional inclusion of selected statments and simple string
substitution.  I may also add lexical namespaces since this is easy to
do.

The idea is to hand the configuration module the name of a config file
(which may .include other such files as it wishes) and have that
module return a symbol table with (name, val, val, val) tuples.
Then it is up to the application to do something about it.

I used a similar idea when I wrote 'twander' and now I want a more
generic version of it:

http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander/

Cheers,

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 12 01:14:43 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 01:14:43 -0500
Subject: import, functions, and threading
Message-ID: <c2rkgj$irh$1@panix2.panix.com>

There were some posts recently discussing whether it's poor style to put
import statements inside functions.  I recently got reminded that there's
one very good reason to avoid it: Python has an import lock that blocks
more than one thread from executing import statements.  Putting import
statements inside functions that might be called in a threaded
environment is asking for deadlock trouble.

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Mon Mar  1 10:40:47 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:40:47 -0600
Subject: Why Python?
In-Reply-To: <kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <4043597F.30506@cs.com>

> 3. Some other languages make it easier to detect certain classes of errors
> in your code.  With a few exceptions, errors in Python code can only be
> found by actually running the code or by checking by hand.

True maybe, but I would argue that Python is not suseptable to many if 
not most of the errors generated and found in say C/C++ coding.  You 
also have a dramatic code volume reduction which helps too.

There are static code checkers too for python which can help some too.

I personally think that python has it as a whole on debugging -- i.e. 
pretty much the lack of a need to do much sophisticated debugging.

It's not clear to me what kind of error that a C compiler can catch 
that's difficult to deal with in Python (although I'm sure there are 
some).  IMHO the whole reason C/C++ has sophisticated debugging tools is 
that code debugging in C is a nightmare.

Thanks for the info--I enjoyed your comments and other's replies to them.

Take care.
Rob


From greg at invalid.invalid  Tue Mar 30 02:30:16 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:30:16 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> ...
> I don't understand this, though it's been mentioned before.
> 
> On my machine, launching the wxPython Demo app takes roughly 0 seconds
> before the splash screen appears, and I can immediately click on it
> and get the app itself, for a total launch time of: immeasurably fast.

On my machine (WinXP Pro, AMD 2400, 512MB) it takes a little over three 
seconds before the splash shows and maybe another two seconds for the 
main frame to show. It takes a little over a second to load IDLE.

greg


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Wed Mar 24 06:23:55 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 11:23:55 GMT
Subject: Vector math
References: <pan.2004.03.24.03.52.35.703059@NOSPAMml1.net>
Message-ID: <40616fcb$0$292$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:50:38 GMT, Tyler Eaves <tyler at NOSPAMml1.net> wrote:
> I'm look for a module that can do the following operations on vectors
> 
> - Cross product
> - Angle between two vectors
> - rotate a 3d point around an arbitrary axis by an arbitrary amount. 
> 
> Actually, the 3 are related. The net effect of rotating around a cross
> product of two vectors by the angle between them is to essentially realign
> a vector from one coordinate system.
> 
Have a look at python3dlinks :
http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks

or the python computer graphics kit
http://cgkit.sourceforge.net



From randall at tnr.cc  Sun Mar 21 22:31:52 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:31:52 GMT
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
Message-ID: <I6t7c.80655$u_5.47815@fe2.texas.rr.com>

I've found an easy and clean way to load and use modules that are loaded 
after a program has started when the name of the module can not be 
pre-determined.

modname = 'usermodname'
# load the module
exec('import ' + modname)
# alias the module
usersmod = eval(modname)

Not you can use the module like this: usermod.def
Where def is some function, class, etc. defined in the module.

Very simple.  I stumbled on this for a while and even read some long, 
complex solutions involving using __import__, etc.  Just thought I'd share.

Randall


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 08:27:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:27:28 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <zo-dnRwOdq3cWvfdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

francois lepoutre wrote:

> Is it time for the python community to commit a bit
> more to the wxwidgets/wxpython environment?
> I feel so

So does Guido, perhaps.  From his PyCon keynote (not a direct
quote, but taken Kevin Altis quoting Ted Leung's notes: 
http://altis.pycs.net/2004/03/25.html#a106 ):

Q: wxPython
A: That's the best GUI toolkit given a number of constraints.  The only 
reason wxPython isn't the standard Python GUI toolkit is that tkInter 
was there first.  Believes wxPython is the most mature cross platform 
toolkit.

-Peter


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 21:21:22 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:21:22 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
In-Reply-To: <105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c3b18o$ao9$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Why would you need to dynamically add exceptions? My mind
> is beginning to boggle trying to find a use case for this.

I could only see it as a pseudo-optimization of the below...

if catch_some_a:
     try:
         #stuff
     except TypeError:
         #do stuff
elif catch_some_b:
     try:
         #stuff
     except ValueError:
         #do stuff
elif catch_all:
     try:
         #stuff
     except TypeError, ValueError:
         #do stuff

But who would do this?  I have no idea.

  - Josiah


From greg at invalid.invalid  Tue Mar 30 20:51:35 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:51:35 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Hupac.8178$Dv2.2499@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> The first time I launched IDLE, it took almost three seconds.  (I don't
> have the Python installer compile .py files ahead of time.)  After that
> it takes about one second as well.
> 
> I'm curious about the differences with wxPython.  Three seconds seems
> unusually long when on a slightly slower machine I can do it in well
> under a second.  Was that the first time you ran it?  Many other apps
> open?  I have over 256MB RAM free when I try this...
> 
> -Peter

Running Hugh's timing script from the command prompt, right after a 
reboot, I get 1.1 seconds. Then on successive runs I get between 0.1 and 
0.2 seconds. Then I ran the wx demo (without rebooting) and it was just 
under 1.5 seconds for the splash. On successive runs it was well under 1 
second.

So, maybe wxPython's not as bad as I thought. It's like my car in the 
winter: I need to run out and start it up every few hours to make sure I 
can make it home. ;)

greg


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Mar  5 16:25:42 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:25:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<Ia42c.538$No1.34069@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <c2ar8m$4th$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Kevin Altis <altis at semi-retired.com> pisze:
i
> Well I have to make the obligatory PythonCard plug...
> 
> <plug>
> http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
> </plug>
> 
> PythonCard uses wxPython and you can mix "raw" wxPython code into your app
> if needed. Since it is based on wxPython, your apps will work on Windows,
> Linux/GTK, and Mac OS X.

Unfortunately, all other toolkits aren't much better, although on X11 I
would prefer PyQt. Check this one out, if GPL doesn't scare you.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  4 10:35:48 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:35:48 -0600
Subject: Backing up objects in db file
In-Reply-To: <p83c8p9buo.fsf@random-node.example.org>
References: <w5ad2xaolr.fsf@random-node.example.org>
	<mailman.1.1078341103.736.python-list@python.org>
	<p83c8p9buo.fsf@random-node.example.org>
Message-ID: <16455.19668.153472.340677@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> Take a look at db2pickle.py and pickle2db.py in the Tools/scripts
    >> directory of the source distribution.  I have no idea if they are
    >> included in the Windows installer.  Here's the doc string from
    >> db2pickle.py:

    Chris> Skip - this would be fine if only the db file changed between
    Chris> releases of libdb.  Unfortunately, it appears the pickle format
    Chris> also sometimes changes, at least this was my experience.  So it's
    Chris> not a portable text format.

I've yet to see a situation where an older pickle file couldn't be read by a
newer pickle version.  One goal of the pickle format was precisely that it
should be version-independent.  You might not be able to go the other way
(dump in newer, load in older), but even then you should be able to force
the dump to be made in the plain text (version 0) format.

The one situation I can think of where an older pickle would be unreadable
with a new version of pickle is if you dumped an instance in the older
version whose class could not be found in the newer version.

Skip




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:38:44 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:44 -0500
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
In-Reply-To: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <fP-dnYM7-_JJ-MrdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Luca T. wrote:

> Ok...
> Now...
> I made this simple program as a test:
> 
> import popen2
> r,w,e = popen2.popen3('su -c ls')
> for line in e.readlines():
>     print 'E: ' + line
> for line in r.readlines():
>     print 'R: ' + line
> 
> r.close
> w.close
> e.close

Bug: you are referencing r.close and friends, but not actually calling 
them.  Python is not VB (or Pascal, etc), so you *must* include the 
parentheses to make a method call:

r.close()
w.close()
e.close()

PyChecker can warn about such things, and many others.

-Peter


From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Sun Mar 21 19:13:52 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 16:13:52 -0800
Subject: J2EE/EJB and Python
References: <mailman.203.1079863124.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <282f826a.0403211613.1a08856f@posting.google.com>

Silvana Di Martino <silvanadimartino at tin.it> wrote in message news:<mailman.203.1079863124.742.python-list at python.org>...
> My group recently received its first request for the the development of a 
> really large and complex enterprise-level application, the kind of app that 
> would require the use of tools like Enterprise Java Beans and J2EE (it is 
> something very similar to the "Titan Cruise" example supplied by Richard 
> Monson Haefel in his fine book "Enetrprise JavaBeans", for the people who 
> read it).
> 
> Of course, being all Pythonists, we wonder if there was any 
> project/architecture/technology like EJB and J2EE in/for Python.

I haven't had time to read the article myself yet but you might find
...

http://www.boddie.org.uk/python/web_modules_enterprise.html

... interesting.

[snip]
> Also, 
> we are aware of the fact that we can use Python and JPython together with 
> J2EE and EJB. 

I've thought about Jython/J2EE myself in the past - but is this
actually true ? I know very little about J2EE - is it the case that a
.jar (or whatever) produced out of Jython can be used within J2EE ? If
there are online examples/articles describing this I'd be interested
to hear of them.

thanks

richard shea.


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 19:32:25 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 16:32:25 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
Message-ID: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>

Hello,

is there a rationale for the following behavior:

  >>> a = (1,2)
  >>> b = (1,2)
  >>> a is b
  False
  >>> a = "12"
  >>> b = "12"
  >>> a is b
  True

Thanks,
  Axel


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 01:03:48 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:03:48 +1200
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <mailman.228.1079953486.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.228.1079953486.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3r8c6$2b5g98$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Eyal Lotem wrote:
> You are not supposed to be looking for it, IMHO.
> Generators follow the Sequence protocol and are to be
> treated as sequences.  Thus, you should simply make it
> clear in the
> function-name/conventions/interface-documentation that
> the function returns a sequence.  Whether that
> sequence is implemented via a generator or not is an
> implementation detail.

That may be true when you're *using* the generator, but
when looking at the implementation, it can be helpful
if you're warned ahead of time that you're wading into
generator code, to get you into the right frame of
mind.

I had that experience just the other day -- started
reading a function, had some moments of wondering
"how does this work?", then thought "oh, I know, I
bet this is a generator"... skimmed through it, and
sure enough, there was a 'yield'.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From dlissett0 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 11:36:50 2004
From: dlissett0 at yahoo.com (Duncan Lissett)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 08:36:50 -0800
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ at powergate.ca>...

> There's a hint on http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/Bench.html
> (Martin's own page on the subject) which suggests ("designed for the
> comparison of System Implementation Languages") that this is not
> a suitable benchmark for Python anyway.  Python doesn't normally
> get used in that domain, and it might be it can't even do what
> is required without resorting to C extensions...

That would be sad, given that language implementors have used Bench to
explore the performance characteristics of Smalltalk and Self and
Java.

"Benchmarking Java with the Richards benchmark"
http://research.sun.com/people/mario/java_benchmarking/richards/richards.html


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Mon Mar 29 07:46:19 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:46:19 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2b41550528e80eb1108d0fb0b61c43b6@news.teranews.com>

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:33:50 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
>news:406635AB.9050803 at mlug.missouri.edu...
>> I'm not terribly familiar with the concept of prototypes although I
>> believe I understand the basic meaning and I have worked in languages
>> which do use prototypes (although not called that).
>>
>I'd like to play around with a prototype based language to see how it
>works, although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use
>Prothon. I'd be using IO if they had a windows executable installer,
>rather than requiring me to compile the silly thing.

I'm pretty sure PowerBuider is prototype-based, although they don't
document it as such.  
It has a Windows-executable installer, also.  :-)
    --dang


From daniel at dittmar.net  Tue Mar  9 15:16:20 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:16:20 +0100
Subject: Package importing question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>
References: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>
Message-ID: <c2l8n5$sqa$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Nick Patavalis wrote:
> so far, so good. Now try:
> 
>   >>> import p0.m0
>   dir(p0.m0)
>   ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'f0', 'm1', 'sys']
> 
> fine also! But:
> 
>   >>> dir(p0)
>   ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__',
>   'm0', 'm1']
> 
> Why on earth does 'm1' show-up there?? And since it does, why doesn't
> 'sys'??

Because all sub modules of package p0 get inserted into the module 
object for p0. This is so that a later import of p0.m1 won't 
import/execute it again. And you did import p0.m1 through the 'import 
m1' in m0.

Daniel


From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Mon Mar 29 23:16:47 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:16:47 +0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <4068E2AA.2090106@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c4160d$d1f27410$0000fea9@simonxp>

>Nice solution.
>Although not as general.

Agreed. I was simply responding to Josiah's comment that 10 million
integers consumes ~160MB of memory, rather than the general duplicate
removal problem posed by Robert Brewer.


>p.s.; this is the last time I manually will remove a "nospam" email
>entry. Who should remove all the spam mailings, if people like you
>don't help with it? :-)

Roger that. I didn't pick it up, probably because it was all lowercase,
it didn't 
SHOUT at me :-)

Sw.




From SSchukat at dspace.de  Wed Mar 31 04:43:53 2004
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:43:53 +0100
Subject: Python & COM
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C0723BD4A@PDC-DSPACE>

Hi,

via Dispatch you will always get SAFEARRAYs of VARIANTS since
this is the only array type which could be transported via automation.

You can transport an array of ints only via a custom interface, which
you then wrap with the makegw tool from the PyWin32 source distribution
into a pyd or use the ctypes COM implementation. 

Regards
	Stefan

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+sschukat=dspace.de at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+sschukat=dspace.de at python.org]On Behalf Of
Anand K Rayudu
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:42 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Python & COM


Hi all,

I have a very primitive question about Python & COM interface.
As of now I have not got any good documentation on using it.
I am planning to buy Python programming on win32 book.
[ It will reach me only after 2 days :-( ]

Could some one please suggest how to add one COM interface which takes 
int array as input.
precisely I want to do following

a=[]
a.append(100)
a.append(200)

from win32com.client import Dispatch


o=Dispatch("MyAppl.com")
o.setIntArray(len(a),a)
I am expecting in my COM interface, I will get VARIENT of SAFEARRAY .

in ATL com implementation,


SAFEARRAY *array=V_ARRAY(a);
long i,val;
for(i=0;i<len;i++){
   SafeArrayGetElement(array,&i,&val)
   c_array[i]= val;
}

I am not getting proper values in C array.
Any suggestions?

Regards,
Anand



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 00:29:24 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:29:24 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <d60o405jo7atpl1aeiq5v6csg23pqib36q@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:18:28 GMT, "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote:

>BEGIN:
>for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>    if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;
>
>What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
>'goto' command?

I just had another thought.

Restarting a loop sounds like error recovery. I _have_ seen something
comparable to this done using recursion...

class Retry (Exception) :
  pass

def widget (a, b) :
  try :
    dostuff ()

    if error :  raise Retry

    dostuff ()

  except Retry :
    #  note - some globals or something needs to be different
    #         or the error will recur, causing an infinite loop.
    widget (a, b)

Or, without the exception...

def widget (a, b) :
  dostuff ()

  if error :
    widget (a, b)
    return

  dostuff ()


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From selwyn at aotearoa_is_home.nz  Wed Mar 10 01:06:59 2004
From: selwyn at aotearoa_is_home.nz (selwyn)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:06:59 +1300
Subject: Searching comp.lang.python
In-Reply-To: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
References: <fut3c.921$Xy3.3330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pgy3c.512$u%1.71075@news02.tsnz.net>

try google groups for searching through the python lists

Mulugeta Maru wrote:
> I went to the Python site to search posts made by group members. I am not
> sure whether there is this functionality exists. If it does could you please
> help a new comer.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> MM
> 
> 



From bogus at bogus.net  Thu Mar 11 13:08:46 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:08:46 GMT
Subject: backquote
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Olaf> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?
>     Olaf> Trying to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.
>
> `object` is equivalent to repr(object).
>
> Skip
>
Is this syntax one of those vestigial short-cuts that is on somebody's hit
list for future deprecation?  To my eyes, `object` is more arcane than
repr(object) - why else would we be having this thread in the first place?

-- Paul




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Mar  4 15:27:44 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 07:17:44 +1050
Subject: Program not Stripping Headers from Email though Working fine
References: <mailman.3.1078410160.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc4f5ff.1ft.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:40:16 -0800 (PST), dont bother wrote:
> for hdr in msg.keys():
> 	if hdr.startswith('From'):
> 		del msg[hdr]

Don't modify the list you're iterating over.  Make a copy, and iterate
over that.

    msg_keys = msg.keys()
    for hdr in msg_keys:
        if hdr.startswith( 'From' ):
            del msg[hdr]

-- 
 \         "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the |
  `\    death your right to mis-attribute this quote to Voltaire."  -- |
_o__)                      Avram Grumer, rec.arts.sf.written, May 2000 |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From everestmadness at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 04:55:14 2004
From: everestmadness at yahoo.com (Mr. Everest)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 01:55:14 -0800
Subject: Installing a python program without full distribution - minimal
	requirements...
References: <c1u6ri$25n4$1@cti15.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <53d926d2.0403010155.6a6a3380@posting.google.com>

Take a look at http://py2exe.sourceforge.net/

"jeuxal com" <informlant at citenet.net> wrote in message news:<c1u6ri$25n4$1 at cti15.citenet.net>...
> Hi,
> 
> I need to add a python program (web updater+extras) with a window 
> application.
> The same thing as the Online Lord of the Ring game 
> (http://lotrtcg.decipher.com/).
> When you install their application, it create a subdirectory with very 
> few python files*.dll,*.pyd,*.pyc.:
> 
>  socket.pyd
>  sre.pyd
>  tkinter.pyd
> (laucher.pyc)
> (lotrotcglaucher.exe)
> python22.dll
> PyWinTypes22.dll
> tcl83.dll
> tk83.dll
> win32api.pyd
> xlib.pyd
>  MEI\...
> 
> Context: I want to add some python capabilities to my application, but 
> not force the user to install the full python distro.
> Questions:
>     1- Are these files sufficient? (Too simple to be true!)
>     2- Is their some registry/path entries do perform to setup a minimal 
> python runtime?
> 
> Other ideas, examples of how to do it in a simple way?
> 
> Thanks
> AL
> 
> --


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar  1 23:40:13 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:40:13 +1100
Subject: wxGlade not Running !
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE013E68AD@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Somesh Bartakkay
> 
> i installed wxGlade on System xp, when i started it ..its not 
> running ?

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Tim Delaney



From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:37:21 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:37:21 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>

> I like that, too, but why do they require *two* extra levels of indenting
to trigger it? Surely one would be enough?

This is a miscommunication.  When I say one extra level I mean the normal
indentation like after an if:.  Two extra is what I think you mean by one
extra.  In any case it works like you expect.

* I definitely don't like the line-noise & and @ prefixes.
>    At least I would never have to use the @ (who in their
>    right mind actually *wants* dynamic scoping in this day
>    and age?-)

I'm open to suggestions.  I used the Ruby prefix system for two reasons.
One is the instant readability instead of searching around the code looking
for global keywords or assignment statements.  The second is to get the fast
one-pass compiler.  But everything in Prothon is subject to change until
7/04.

As far as the dynamic scoping, I only put that in for completeness.  I had
all the others so I said what the hell.  You don't have to use it.  I have
some kind of vague idea how it might be used in something like wxWindows but
I have to work on that idea.  Go the Prothon list and voice your opinion.

> * A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
>    wouldn't go amiss.

I agree completely.  We are working on this area.

>    By the way, did anyone figure out how you give an object
>    multiple prototypes?

It sucks right now:

Proto = Proto1()
Proto.add_proto(Proto2)
obj = Proto()

There is a discussion about this whole area on the Prothon list right now.

>      f = someobj.somemeth
>      f()

Yes this is legal.

>      f = someobj.somemeth
>      someotherobj.g = f
>      someotherobj.g()
>
>    What does the "self" object inside the call to somemeth
>    refer to then -- someobj, or someotherobj?

It refers to someotherobj.

You can get the answer to these questions quickly youself with a download
from prothon.org.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c48e0g$2fkvm2$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Stephen Horne wrote:
> > On a separate issue, the Prothon developers seem to have the mistaken
> > view that commas influence line continuation in Python. They don't -
> > but parentheses, square brackets and braces do. Though the Prothon
> > extra-indentation system (which is similar to Haskells offside rule, I
> > suppose) is an interesting idea.
>
> I like that, too, but why do they require *two* extra levels of
> indenting to trigger it? Surely one would be enough?
>
> Some other impressions:
>
> * I'm not sure I like the leading-dot notation. The code
>    examples look untidy to my eyes; there's too much punctuation
>    and not enough stuff being punctuated. Maybe I could get
>    used to it... or maybe not.
>
> * I definitely don't like the line-noise & and @ prefixes.
>    At least I would never have to use the @ (who in their
>    right mind actually *wants* dynamic scoping in this day
>    and age?-)
>
> * A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
>    wouldn't go amiss. Having to say
>
>      Thing = Base()
>      with Thing:
>         ...
>
>    every time I want to define a class (oops, sorry, prototype)
>    would drive me batty. I'd much rather write something like
>
>      object Thing(Base):
>        ...
>
>    By the way, did anyone figure out how you give an object
>    multiple prototypes? I don't remember seeing an example of
>    that.
>
> * It's not clear whether there is any such thing as a bound
>    method in Prothon, i.e. whether you can do
>
>      f = someobj.somemeth
>      f()
>
>    and have it do what a Pythoneer would expect. And if so,
>    what happens if you do
>
>      f = someobj.somemeth
>      someotherobj.g = f
>      someotherobj.g()
>
>    What does the "self" object inside the call to somemeth
>    refer to then -- someobj, or someotherobj?
>
>    Answering that question may shed some light on what was
>    asked earlier: Do we really need classes?
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar  4 15:51:44 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:51:44 -0500
Subject: [Numeric] why is Float32 incorrect for ufuncs?
References: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <qnk65dkwd27.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Curzio Basso <curzio.basso at unibas.ch> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I am a beginner with Numerical Python, and there is a thing I do not
> understand in the behaviour of the ufuncs. Maybe someone can enlighten
> me.
>
> Why is the following not working?
>
>  >>> import Numeric
>  >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32)
>  >>> a
> array([[ 1.,  1.],
>         [ 1.,  1.]],'f')
>  >>> a/=2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: return array has incorrect type
>
> If I use Numeric.Float64 as typecode everything works fine, but I do
> not understand why is this needed.
>
> thanks for your help. curzio.

Because a/2 returns an array with typecode of Numeric.Float64, which
can not be copied into an array of typecode Numeric.Float32. That's
becasue Numeric does type upcasting. Note that a Python float is
equivalent to Numeric.Float64.

This is a bit of a wart in Numeric. You can work around it by calling
ones with savespace=1, or calling a.savespace(1). Or, use numarray,
where the default behaviour is not to do upcasting:

>>> import numarray
>>> a = numarray.ones( (2,2), type=numarray.Float32)
>>> print a
array([[ 1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.]], type=Float32)
>>> a /= 2
>>> print a
array([[ 0.5,  0.5],
       [ 0.5,  0.5]], type=Float32)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Mar 10 12:36:49 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:36:49 +0100
Subject: Win 32 Pipes
Message-ID: <404F5231.20403@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

             I am working on an application which needs to use the 
win32pipe module from
ActvieState.  However I wish to open a connection to an existing named 
pipe and then post and receive messages without disconnecting.  I know I 
can use win32pipe.CallNamedPipe but that connects and disconnects on 
every transaction.  I've been playing with the win32pipe API but I can't 
quite get it to work.

    Please could someone let me know how to make a permanent connection 
to an already created named pipe?

If this isn't the correct newsgroup for this question, apologies - 
please could you let me know the correct group?

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
PfotenhauerStrasse 108
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (351) 210 1300
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 22:03:46 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:03:46 -0800
Subject: creating lists question?
In-Reply-To: <jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c3qu0d$rfl$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I'm not sure this is doing what I want it to do. In the example I gave I
> want a new list call "aaa" another list called "bbb"... so I can append to
> the new list  i.e., bbb.append().  It may be that your example does this but
> it appears to be (with my limited knowledge) that it's creating a list of
> lists, when all I want is a new isolated list.

Matt already gave an answer for how to do it using exec.  There is 
another method:

for name in list1:
     locals()[name] = []

The above gets the dictionary for the local namespace, and makes the 
name given point to a new list.

This doesn't have the same security holes as exec, but may have 
(non-exploitable) security holes, eg lists with builtin or module names.

  - Josiah


From garryknight at gmx.net  Wed Mar 10 14:03:20 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:03:20 +0000
Subject: Regex Match Problem
References: <59c05c40.0403100717.30e6dbb2@posting.google.com>
	<8nhu4059js0lrc10ks9io6p4j70r7abj96@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1078945403.8188.0@echo.uk.clara.net>

In message <8nhu4059js0lrc10ks9io6p4j70r7abj96 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg
wrote:

> On 10 Mar 2004 07:17:12 -0800, bradwiseathome at hotmail.com (bdwise)
> wrote:
> 
>>";([^.]*).focus()"

Just thought I'd expand on what you've done above and what Dave suggests
below as I remember what it was like when I was new to REs:

1) . means 'match any one character'
2) ^ at the start of a character set [] means 'match anything except the
following set of characters.
3) ( and ) are used to a) group expressions together, and b) collect one or
more parts of expressions.

So 1) and 2) mean that '[^.]*' is meaningless as far as REs are concerned.
It indicates something like "match 0 or more of anything that's not one of
any character".

And 3) indicates that, as Dave said:

> You need to escape the metacharacters.  Try
> r";.*\.focus\(\).*;"

That's why he's suggested putting '\' in front of the '(' and ')' when you
want to literally search for those characters. 'Escaping' them in this way
means "match exactly this character, ignoring its usual meaning" where the
usual meaning of '(' and ')' would be "group the pattern between the '('
and ')' and store it for later retrieval.

You'll also notice that Dave has escaped the '.' before 'focus' as you want
to match a literal '.' rather than have it mean "match any character".

> Also, use a raw quote, so you don't have to escape the escapes.

Dave has put an 'r' at the front of the string. You may know that Python
interprets certain things in a string. For example, '\n' in a string gets
turned into a newline character. It's always best to make your REs r"raw
strings" in this way so that those special characters are no longer special
and have their regular, literal meaning.

> Don't forget to set re.DOTALL if you want the '.*' to capture newlines
> also.

Matches are normally constrained to be wholly within a single 'paragraph'
(between newlines). If the text you're searching for will only ever be
wholly on a single line, you don't need to set re.DOTALL.

Given everything above, Dave's RE:

r";.*\.focus\(\).*;"

means "match a single ';' followed by 0 or more of any character followed by
a literal '.' then the letters 'focus', a literal '(' and ')', followed by
0 or more of any character followed by a ';'. Which is more or less what
you want, but not exactly...

There is another thing you should be aware of: RE matching tends to be
'greedy'. That is, if a string that matches part of your pattern occurs
more than once within the search area, it will match the rightmost
occurrence of that part of the pattern. For example, "a.*f" matched against
the string "The big, bad wolf scared him off." will match from the 'a' in
'bad' right up to the 2nd 'f' in 'off' even though there are two other 'f's
before it. Matches are greedy by default and they can swallow up far more
than you intended.

There is a way of making these 'wildcard' RE characters non-greedy, which is
by putting a '?' after them. So, you could alter Dave's RE slightly:

r";.*?\.focus\(\).*?;"

to make sure that the first occurence of '.focus' is matched, followed by
the very next occurrence of ';'.

Dave's RE will match from the first ';' it finds right up to the ';' after
'focus()'. If you run it on the text you gave in your example, it will turn
this:

something();something();
document.thisForm.textBox1.focus();something();

into this:

something();
something();

In other words, it will match too much. If you think about it, what you want
to do is match from the character *after* a ';' up to the ';' following
'focus()'. A good RE for doing this is this:

r"[^;]*?\.focus\(\).*?;"

You'll see that it's a slight alteration to Dave's RE. It first checks for
the shortest sequence of characters that don't include a ';' and that are
immediately followed by '.focus();' - and that's what you want and that's
*all* that you want.

So you can do something like this:

line = re.sub(r"[^;]*?\.focus\(\).*?;", "", linefromfile)

and line will either be the same as linefromfile if the RE didn't match, or
it will be linefromfile with the matching text ("anything.focus();")
deleted.

I hope this helps and that I haven't "simplicated" things...  :o)

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Wed Mar 10 15:34:31 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 12:34:31 -0800
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<slrnc4g7nk.4rp.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403101234.49d7f9f5@posting.google.com>

"David M. Cook" <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote...

> Python lacks access controls (private/protected etc), though you can use __
> name munging.

In an entirely speculative tone, is this correct? I thought new-style
objects supported protected attributes and such via properties. This
might be completely incorrect, my head has been like a sieve for the
last few months. :(


David.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar 23 15:07:06 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:07:06 -0700
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org><tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl><mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org><1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<1080074644.4365.12.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>
Message-ID: <03e701c41112$6ac51180$6500a8c0@YODA>

gabor wrote:
> > I want to call attention to this.  Dave and I appear to be in
> > agreement that, while common wisdom in our field is that C++,
> > Java, and so on, are serious languages that are the only
> > realistic choices for large projects, we are both saying that
> > they're at a particular DISadvantage there.  If you have a
> > big job, you *particularly* need to look at Python (or Erlang,
> > or Eiffel, or ...)
> > -- 
>
> i wanted to use python for a project in our company... we wanted to
> build a fairly big system/program.
>
> but when i recommended python, i got a question like:
> (previously all the programs were written in java)
> "if one of our programmers changes a method in a class/interface, we
> immediately will know about it, because the next program-rebuild will
> simply fail. but if we would use python, we wouldn't find it out".

Say "Bzzt! Wrong!" :) In C++ this is a no brainer because the compiler simply
cannot catch all bugs introduced by interface refactoring, e.g. changing

void bar(int a, int c=0)

to

void var(int a, int b, int c=0)

can result in hidden bugs. Even in Java though, you simply cannot rely on the
compiler for this sort of thing (in the simplest case, an interface refactoring
that re-orders some of the parameters with same types will not be caught - if
the developers form the habit of relying on the compiler they'll be safe for
many types of refactoring and then get burnt by laziness at some point along
the way).

In reality you need to look at *each* use of the interface to know (1) what
sort of change makes sense and (2) if the changes you made didn't break
anything. You can cut down on the work required by using a nice refactoring
IDE, or better yet, with proper testing (if unit tests don't work well, then
some system tests are better than nothing) but just relying on the compiler is
a big no-no - in the above examples, relying on the compiler covers bugs up!

Their argument that Python is unsuitable for large projects has little to do
with Python at all, and instead just reveals a poor development practice that
everybody should avoid. I would ask them to cite a real world example rather
than hypothetical "what-ifs" because the refactoring of an interface is almost
always accompanied by a semantic change to the interface, and again the
compiler can't really help there.

-Dave




From otto_kruse at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 07:17:08 2004
From: otto_kruse at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Otto_Kr=FCse?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:17:08 +0100
Subject: py2exe distribution wants internet access (DNS)
In-Reply-To: <jql250tl0r7vure6sv36gvd6hibovt0p7r@4ax.com>
References: <40503ec2$0$77271$abc4f4c3@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<jql250tl0r7vure6sv36gvd6hibovt0p7r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4051aa40$0$49819$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>

I don't think this is the answer because the python interpreter only 
wants to access IP adress 0.0.0.0 for accessing it's subroutines. That's 
something different than DNS access.

I think it has something to do with the MySQLdb module not being 
'converted' as it should by py2exe.

My hypothesis:
When my program wants to connect with the MySQL dBase it sends a message 
to the DNS to ask where it can find the MySQL server. DNS doesn't know 
it so the program then checks locally and finds the MySQL server and 
connects with it. However, if I block access to the DNS it will not find 
the local server any more, this is strange I think.... In fact I don't 
want my prgram to talk with a DNS, I want it to check for local servers 
only.

Anyone know something about this?

Many thanks
Otto


Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:26:12 +0100, Otto Kr?se <otto_kruse at hotmail.com>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> 
>>Why does the original python script run normally but does the py2exe 
>>'conversion' of it want DNS access? How can I change this?
>>
> 
> 	Hypothesis: At some point in time you granted the Python
> interpreter ITSELF access through the firewall. The file created by
> py2exe may contain the interpreter, but it is NOT the same interpreter
> to the firewall.
> 
> 	As a test, check your firewall configuration and remove all
> Python related entries. Then see what happens. I suspect you'll find it
> asks for access when run via "python xxx"
> 
> 
> --  
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
>  >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
>  >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Sat Mar  6 20:49:01 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 01:49:01 GMT
Subject: Utterly OT:[Was Re: Need better string methods]
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<Xns94A4C17566601rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<1078619981.9471.0@echo.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94A4D409BC588rzed@63.223.5.95>

Garry Knight <garryknight at gmx.net> wrote in
news:1078619981.9471.0 at echo.uk.clara.net: 

> In message <Xns94A4C17566601rzed at 63.223.5.95>, rzed wrote:
> 
>> This "gradoo" of which you speak ... where did you learn the
>> word? I only ask, because I know (and use) "gradeau",
>> pronounced like I imagine "gradoo" would be pronounced, to mean
>> miscellaneous cruft or garbage
> 
> For your interest:
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gradeau
> "gradeau        
>     anything nasty that is small and slimy on you or anything
>     else, ie., eye 
> slime from a dog or mucous of any sort
>     ewww, there's gradeau on my arm ewww"
> 
> http://www.collectivecopies.com/informative.htm
> "Funky Gradoo
> Colorful Southern term for schmutz (Yiddish), crud (Yankee) or
> other unwanted marks, spots or streaks on a copy."


Thank you. Yes, I saw the urbandictionary entry, and I've seen 
about a hundred uses of the term in the sense I'm talking about by 
Googling around, mostly in Google news. 

I'm interested in finding out where it came from and when it 
originated. I saw one post that claimed it was a Cajun term, which 
I suppose could be the "colorful Southern term" mentioned above, 
but I am not sure how to verify that. I haven't seen any dated use 
before the early 1990's. 

> 
> [And now, back to your regular programming...]
> 


-- 
rzed



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 20:02:03 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:02:03 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4057A38B.2682C2FC@alcyone.com>

John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2 at posting.google.com...
> > Still trying to understand "=="... It appears as if two equal objects
> > can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them:
> >
> >   >>> l=[1]
> >   >>> s=l
> >   >>> l.append(s)
> >   >>> w=[1]
> >   >>> r=[1,w]
> >   >>> w.append(r)
> >   >>> s
> >   [1, [...]]
> >   >>> w
> >   [1, [1, [...]]]
> >   >>> s==w
> >   True
> >
> > Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.
> >
> >   >>> s[0]=2
> >   >>> w[0]=2
> >   >>> s==w
> >   False
> >
> > All of a sudden they have become unequal.
> >
> > Axel
> 
> You've got a recursive structure! I originally thought
> that the [...] was something you'd done to the printout,
> but it isn't.
> 
> I think the original True is a bug. It's getting confused
> by the recursion.

Nah, Python's completely right here.

That the original s and w have extra finite elements doesn't make them
unequal.  Follow Python's elementwise equality algorithm down and you'll
see they must be equal.  The original s is

>>> l = [1]
>>> s = l
>>> l.append(s)
>>> s
[1, [...]]

so it is

	[1, [1, [1, [1, [1, ...]]]]]

The original w is

>>> w = [1]
>>> r = [1, w]
>>> w.append(r)
>>> w
[1, [1, [...]]]

so it is also

	[1, [1, [1, [1, [1, ...]]]]]

The real weirdness you reach is when the recursive sublists are not
appended, but prepended:

>>> a = [1]
>>> a.insert(0, a)
>>> a
[[...], 1]

Here you could never even resolve a first element for comparison!

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Here day fights with night.
    -- (the last words of Victor Hugo)


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Tue Mar 30 09:35:49 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:35:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
	<c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<40698148.40907@spam.trap.kbcfp.com>
Message-ID: <c4c0k5$4jt$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Vrai Stacey <spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com> wrote:
> JCM wrote:
>> a = b = c
>> a = b == c

> I had no idea you could do that! I was under the impression that 
> assignment didn't return a value in Python, hence it being impossible to 
> use one as a conditional.

Assignment actually doesn't return a value; the multple-assignment
statement assigns a value to the left-hand-sides in a left-to-right
order.  Eg:

>>> a = 0
>>> lst = [10, 20, 30, 40]
>>> a = lst[a] = 3
>>> lst
[10, 20, 30, 3]

(You might have expected [3, 20, 30, 40])


From dave at nullcube.com  Mon Mar 15 22:14:46 2004
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:14:46 +1100
Subject: DCOracle2 and oracle headers
Message-ID: <20040316031446.GA9226@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

hi all,

Im trying to install DCOracle2 but I cant seem to find out how to
install the Oracle header files that the library needs (...rdbms/demo is
empty).

Ive installed both the db and the client, but still no header files.

can anyone help out with a pointer ?

-- 
Dave Harrison
Nullcube
dave at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  6 15:33:33 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:33:33 -0500
Subject: Question please
In-Reply-To: <001801c403a1$012beb50$6500a8c0@Barbara>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEKIJFAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Abe and Barb K.]
> I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2 with
> win32 extensions software. 
> 
> I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if I can just
> remove this software without affecting anything in my system as it is
> taking up space if I'm not going to use it?

Please see "Why is Python Installed on my Computer?":

    http://www.python.org/doc/faq/installed.html



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar 13 09:10:41 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:10:41 -0500
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files
	inthe Directory
References: <Law10-F11d3qix8xR5f00010c98@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c2v4ou$ho5$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Shalen chhabra" <shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Law10-F11d3qix8xR5f00010c98 at hotmail.com...
> Hey,
>
> Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the
files
> in the directory.
> For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python
program
> against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python
code
> instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be
cumbersome
> giving the argv of each file every single time.
>
> This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a
> flavour of python for this.

I would consider following strategy:

def process_file(fileobject): <do whatever to file>

if __name__ == '__main__':
  from sys import argv
  if argv is file, open, and call process_file
  if directory, use os.path to get list and iterate over

You could also process multiple arguments to process subset of all files.
You can also use os.walk (or os.path.walk) to iterate recursively into
subdirectories.

By separating process_file as a function from conditional 'what file to
process' logic, you can also import and use function in another program.

Terry J. Reedy






From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  2 02:44:19 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:44:19 +0100
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
References: <c20h8l$82p$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <oerfn164.fsf@python.net>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:

> Dear group,
>
> I've possibly narrowed a problem I'm having running zope as a service
> on winxp pro sp 1 in that when started from a command line as:
>
> c:\zope\v27\lib\python\python.exe
> c:\zope\v27\lib\python\zope\startup\run.py -C
> c:\zope\v27\instance\etc\zope.conf
>
> it starts up just fine (although now running from the console).
>
> But when I start it with:
>
> c:\zope\v27\lib\python\pythonw.exe
> c:\zope\v27\lib\python\zope\startup\run.py -C
> c:\zope\v27\instance\etc\zope.conf
>
> it dies after about 30 seconds.
>
> It wouldn't surprise me that I'm doing something it doesn't like (I'm
> spawning additional processes from within a product but it worked fine
> with 2.5), but I'm somewhat at a loss as to debugging it in that when
> run as a console app it works fine, but when run windowless it
> doesn't.
>
> Do I have to write out check points to a file? or is there some way to
> use Mark Hammonds process debugging tools?  Or is this a bug, known or
> otherwise?
>
> Pointers and hints welcome.

It has been reported that writing to the original sys.stdout (and maybe
also sys.stderr) sooner or later raises an IOError when running
pythonw.exe, unless these are redirected.  Could this be the problem?

Thomas




From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 21:31:43 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 21:31:43 -0500
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.35.1078521691.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2bd0g$afk$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Bart> Is there a shred module in Python? You know, the kind that
>     Bart> overwrites files that one doesn't want others to see?
> 
> I've never used shred before, but here's an essentially untested stab at
> the problem:
> 
>     #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
>     import os
>     import random
>     import sys
>     import md5
> 
>     def shred(f, npasses=5):
>         sz = os.path.getsize(f)
>         for n in range(npasses):
>             dig = md5.new(file(f).read()).hexdigest()
>             print >> sys.stderr, "pass:", n+1,
>             print >> sys.stderr, "digest:", dig
>             chars = [chr(i) for i in range(128)]
>             random.shuffle(chars)
>             chars = "".join(chars)
>             bytesleft = sz
>             fp = file(f, "wb")
>             while bytesleft:
>                 nbytes = min(bytesleft, 128)
>                 fp.write(chars[:nbytes])
>                 bytesleft -= nbytes
>             fp.close()
>         dig = md5.new(file(f).read()).hexdigest()
>         print >> sys.stderr, "last digest:", dig
>         os.unlink(f)
> 
>     if __name__ == "__main__":
>         tmpf = "dummyf"
>         file(tmpf, "wb").write(file("/etc/hosts").read()*5)
>         shred(tmpf)
> 
> Note that it does no error checking, nor does it have any force write arg.
> 
> Skip

Thanks Skip! I'll give this a go.


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 21:26:59 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:26:59 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5scj0.qbu.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc5sc8c.qbu.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5scj0.qbu.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c3lii3$28qgsp$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Joe Mason wrote:
> In article <slrnc5sc8c.qbu.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>, Joe Mason wrote:
> 
>>This has not been remotely my experience.  Recently I tried 5 different
>>Linux JVM's for one program, leaving the Sun JRE until last because it
>>was a bit harder to install, and only the Sun one worked.

If you stick to console programs, you are not likely to experience
problems.  However, when it comes to Swing apps, the other JREs
(JVM + J2SE API implementation) out there (with the possible
exception of IBM's) are not mature enough to be practical in use.

The bottom line is that by sticking to Sun's JRE on Linux and Windows,
and Apple's implementation on the OS X, you do have a very effective
WORA platform.  The others are largely good only for experimentation.

 >> the Sun JRE until last because it
 >> was a bit harder to install, and only the Sun one worked.

Strange, I didn't find the Sun JRE the least bit difficult
to install on Linux... execute the script, add the j2sdk/ or
j2re/ and/or its bin directory to your PATH, and you can start
doing

java -jar jarfile

under X Window, and run Swing apps immediately.


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 15 11:53:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:53:48 +0100
Subject: random.random - Interpreter works, Script doesn't?
References: <105ac9sm9lvij49@corp.supernews.com>
	<vjka50dllikgbrmnel0b55ldrsq95tsvga@4ax.com>
	<c34khj02f8g@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <c34n2s$hcd$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Bill wrote:

> Pay up :-) Cut and pasted from script:
> 
> import random
> 
> for i in range(10):
>     x = random.random()
>     print x
> 
> Other ideas? Thanks!

You didn't name the above script random.py, did you :-)

You would then import the script itself, and the variable named random is
again bound to the script itself, i. e. a module.

When you clean up, also make sure that there is no random.pyc or random.pyo
left over in the script directory.

Peter



From klausman-un0304 at schwarzvogel.de  Mon Mar  1 17:09:32 2004
From: klausman-un0304 at schwarzvogel.de (Tobias Klausmann)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 22:09:32 GMT
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc47d4s.rpf.klausman-un0204@eric.schwarzvogel.de>

sb <spam_bait101 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've heard the biggest python gurus use vim. *Please* post some
> screenshots of you in action - some interesting things like
>    - calltips, 
>    - editor-shell interaction
>    - reference manual invocation by keyword from within the editor
>    - object browser, 
>    - etc. 
> Or are you using vim just like C coders do?

While definitely not being a guru I use vims Syntax highlighting
plus these settings for all files ending in .py:

highlight Comment ctermfg=white

set smartindent
cinwords=if,elif,else,for,while,try,except,finally,def,class
set tabstop=4  
set shiftwidth=4  
set smarttab
set expandtab
set softtabstop=4  
set autoindent  

Depending on your style of coding you might want to tune them,
but they're pointers. They most probably have room for
improvement, too.

As for calltips, shell interaction and all the othe nifty stuff:
I don't use it. And while they sometimes sound cool I always
ended up being more annoyed than helped by them.

Greets,
Tobias

-- 
Thank you for calling  $PROVIDER helpdesk. If your cupholder is
broken, please press 1. If you want an actual knowledgable support
person, please enter the IP representation of a /28 netmask."


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Mar 24 00:04:44 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 21:04:44 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Okay, but can you explain the mechanism or point me to the original post?  I
> can't find it on Google (probably too recent).  Multimethod(a,b)() won't
> know that each call is for __mul__ will it (maybe it will peek at the
> func_name attribute)?  From what you posted, all I saw was multiple
> definitions of __mul__.  Only the last one will be present as a method in
> the class's definition.
> 
> Skip

Please take what I posted just as an idea (it is not even my idea!), not as 
an implementation proposal.
I don't have an implementation, but I am pretty much convinced that it is
possible and not that hard. 
I am not suggesting that we put multimethods in Python 2.4. 
I am just noticing that the notation could be used to denote 
multimethods too, as Ville Vainio suggested (sorry for the mispelling,
Ville!).

Just to support your point that the decorator idea is a Pandora box, and 
we can extract anything from it ;)

     Michele Simionato


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Mar 12 10:57:27 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:57:27 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <EO%3c.2675$G3.20988@localhost>
	<10517r5523m4743@news.supernews.com>
	<c2rafr$21ftn5$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <n3dUAls/KfaD089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <c2rafr$21ftn5$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>,
"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>John Roth wrote:
>> I suspect that's a rather common error. I'd much prefer
>> that both find and index return an object that acted like
>> a number but returned the logically correct response when
>> queried as a boolean: true for zero and false for -1.
>
>Good heavens, no! That would be a *massively* dangerous
>object to have floating around in one's program...

   *Most* of them wouldn't float very far..  I presume that
when you did arithmetic on one of them, the magic wouldn't
metastatize to the result.  So when one did escape from the
find/index context it would be the last thing anybody
expected.

        Regards.        Mel.


ob. c.l.p.  fear, surprise


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 10 08:13:46 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:13:46 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<mailman.217.1078918903.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104u56h5im52m29@news.supernews.com>

"Gerrit" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.217.1078918903.19534.python-list at python.org...
Aahz wrote:
> * Long ``import`` statements can be difficult to write, requiring
>   various contortions to fit Pythonic style guidelines.

> Instead, it should be possible to use Python's standard grouping
> mechanism (parentheses) to write the ``import`` statement::
>
>     from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>         LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)
>
> This part of the proposal already has BDFL approval.

Why are the parentheses necessary?
What's wrong with:

from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button,
    Entry, Canvas, Text,
    LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL

...where Python's normal indentation mechanism provides the grouping?


[response]
Because it's a deviation from the syntax elsewhere in Python.
It's not clear that the trailing comma means the statement is
to be continued. I'm not sure whether the trailing comma is
valid or whether it causes an error, but in neither case is it
regarded as an indication that the statment is to be continued.

It might be interesting to do it that way, but if so it should be
accepted as a continuation indicator in all contexts.

John Roth
[/response]


Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 10/03 11:25 UTC:
2.0?C light snow overcast wind 5.4 m/s NE (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/




From shane at zope.com  Wed Mar 31 13:58:21 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:58:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Python conference slogan
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403311355090.27562-100000@shane.zope.com>

Here's a Python slogan suggestion by Ken Manheimer.

One Nation Under Under Python

I thought it was pretty funny.  I don't know if international folks will 
get it, though. :-)

Shane



From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Fri Mar 19 03:05:20 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:05:20 +0100
Subject: Start Mozilla Chat under Windows
Message-ID: <1681748914.20040319090520@anonym.hu>

Hello !

I want to Start the Mozilla chat under Windows, from a python program.
The program must be run after the starting.

But it is not working !!!

import os

dir="C:/Program Files/mozilla.org/Mozilla"
line=(dir+"/"+"Mozilla.exe","-chat")
os.chdir(dir) # try it, but it has no effect
os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,line[0],line)

The splash screen is showed, but Mozilla is terminated.

Interesting thing that execle, and popen2 is working, so the Mozilla
chat is opened by them, but execle is replace the current program, and popen2
is blocked after starting...

So: anyone have an idea for this problem ???

Thanx for every help.

-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                          mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu

Ps:

os.startfile() is not working with parameters... :-(




From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 16:08:02 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:08:02 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <slrnc66blg.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>	<mailman.401.1080225693.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc66blg.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <40634A32.8080103@zope.com>

Joe Mason wrote:
> In article <mailman.401.1080225693.742.python-list at python.org>, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> 
>>>    # Define a staticmethod named 'now'.
>>>
>>>    class datetime:
>>>        now = staticmethod(def):
>>>            ticks = time.time()
>>>            return datetime(ticks)
>>
>>Today, this would be written as:
>>
>>     class datetime:
>>         def now():
>>             ticks = time.time()
>>             return datetime(ticks)
>>         now = staticmethod(now)
> 
> 
> Note that it would need to be "now = staticmethod(def()):", I think, to
> allow parameters.
> 
> I like this syntax in general (hence why I hope to have some excuse to
> use Haskell or an ML someday) but it doesn't seem quite Pythonic.

I was amazed to discover that list comprehensions are considered 
Pythonic.  They turn two kinds of statements (for and if) into 
expressions and often have to span multiple lines.  Also, when read from 
left to right, they set the iteration variable *after* using it.  This 
started to open my mind to new possiblities.

> If "name = def(params): body" and "def name(params): body" are both allowed, we have two
> ways to define functions (plus lambda, although this would make it
> obsolete, I believe).

Yes, although list comprehensions provide a second way to generate a 
list.  The difference is procedural vs. functional style.  Making Python 
friendlier to the functional style seems valuable, even if it leads to 
two ways to do some things.

> So would "now = def then():" be allowed, setting the function name
> attribute to then but making it callable only as now()?  Or would this
> not allow naming functions at all?  The latter would make the
> multimethods from the other thread hard to implement.  (Then again, in
> this view of the world functions don't have names, they just happen to
> be callable by named variables, so multimethods indexed by name wouldn't
> make any sense anyway.)

I wouldn't want to allow inline names--they just confuse things.

> Personally, I wouldn't mind at all if this form became the standard, and
> the original form retired.  But I think if you don't do both, you'd
> start to get a vaguely schizophrenic language.

Maybe, but then we'd have to wait for Python 3000 for it to become 
standard. :-)

Shane



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Tue Mar 16 17:21:11 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:21:11 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <j5L5c.6504$kc2.150888@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Roy Smith wrote:
> I was once asked on an interview how I would tell, inside of a C 
> program, if I was on a big endian or a small endian machine.  I said I'd 
> create a union of a long and a char[4], set the long equal to 1, and see 
> which char it showed up in.  The interviewer looked shocked, thought 
> about it for a while, and finally said something like, "yeah, I guess 
> that would work".
> 
> To this day, I have no idea what other plan he had in mind.

Maybe the guy was thinking about writing to a file, but your way using a 
short is the best I know of...


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Mar 30 03:49:44 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:49:44 +0100
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
In-Reply-To: <406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <406934a9$0$7564$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Fred Ma wrote:
> I appreciate the sed terseness because
> I can make a command line pipe stage out of it, but
> the same brevity in a scripting language can make for
> rough going.

Both perl and python will allow you to do this. in perl

#!/usr/bin/perl
while(<>) { print uc $_; }

this script will read from stdin and write an uppercased version of the 
input to stdout and can be used in a pipeline.

You can to the same in python and of course the guts of the loop can be 
as big or small as you like. There is also a s2p tool that converts sed 
scripts into perl, but rewiting would be a better bet as s2p can produce 
some crufty code.

To be honest you could just flip a coin and go with that if you have no 
specific requirements.

Perl may be easier to sell to your boss than python but if you just went 
ahead with it you could use anything.


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Mar 18 02:25:24 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:25:24 -0800
Subject: Statistical Techniques
In-Reply-To: <mailman.58.1079476340.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.58.1079476340.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3bit4$f75$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

dont bother wrote:
> Hey,
> I was just wondering if python has any support modules
> for statistical techniques as Bayesian, Markovian
> Style Models etc.

There's Chris Fonnesbeck's PyMC for doing MCMC
http://pymc.sourceforge.net/

And LogiLab's hmm for doing Hidden Markov Models
http://www.logilab.org/projects/hmm

Not much specifically bayesian, but Tom Loredo has a list of statistical 
Python software.
http://www.astro.cornell.edu/staff/loredo/statpy/

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  1 20:17:10 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:17:10 -0600
Subject: Novice [].append Help
In-Reply-To: <c20iig08ip@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <c20iig08ip@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20040302011710.GC7746@unpythonic.net>

First a gripe about your code: the l_ stuff is painful to read.

Anyway, the line
    l_local = l_format
merely makes l_local a reference to the same thing as l_format (l_local
is l_format).  The next two lines change some of the elements in that
list, and then l_output gets another reference to the same list added to
it.  It's no surprise, then, that all of l_output's items are equal when
the function is done: it's a list containing many references to the same
thing.

This may do what you want if you change that line to
    l_local = l_format[:]
seq[:] is a slice including all the elements of seq, and is a very
common shorthand for making a shallow copy.  You could also write
    l_local = t_curr_line[:2] + l_format[2:]
to assemble l_local from slices of other lists.

Here's how I'd be tempted to write your function:

    def create_apid_list(format, values):
        return [ v[:2] + format[2:] for v in values ]

or, if the context allows for the use of an iterator and you're using
Python 2.3:

    def create_apid_list(format, values):
        for v in values:
            yield v[:2] + format[2:]

Jeff



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 28 16:15:41 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:15:41 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c47f9l$e7s$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:7vD9c.318$1A6.114130 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> Here's a breakdown of most of the syntax discussed re: PEP318 using an
> example from python-dev. There are probably several more (I've added
[10]).
> The example applies both function decoration and annotation.

Let me add two more based on a proposal I just posted to PyDev.

> # [5] function attribute dictionary
> def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
>         {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
>          url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"}
>         "doc string"
>         body


# [5B]
def f(self)::
    "doc string"
    publish_to_web(foo)
    {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
      url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"}
    :
    body

> # [6]  @function_attribute = ...
> def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
>         @spark_rule="DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
>         @url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
>         "doc string"
>         body

# [6B]
def foo(self)::
    "doc string"
    publish_to_web(foo)
    spark_rule="DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
    url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
    :
    body

> # [7] :function_attribute:...
> def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
>         :spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
>         :url:"/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
>         "doc string"
>         body

#[7B] identical to [6B]

The essential idea is that definition-time code should be strictly
separated from run-time code with ':'.  If so, no new syntax is *necessary*
(though some can be considered).  Assignments in the def-block would be
interpreted much like in class bodies (which are also executed at def
time).

Terry J. Reedy







From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar  8 04:08:29 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:08:29 +0200
Subject: pdb help...
In-Reply-To: <692feddd.0403080056.564a194a@posting.google.com>
References: <692feddd.0403080056.564a194a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404C380D.4040408@zoran.com>

Hello Equis,

> Suppose I have a module named
> 
> IamModule.py
> 
> How do I set a breakpoint at line 1 and step through the lines
> of code?
$ pdb mkuser
(Pdb) break 10
Breakpoint 1 at /home/mikit/work/perforce/mkuser:10
(Pdb) r
 > /home/mikit/work/perforce/mkuser(10)?()
-> from os.path import join, isdir
(Pdb) print argv
['mkuser']
...

> I'm sorry for such a silly question but I've been dumbed down by
> a Java IDE named IntelliJ.
> 
> There it is easy, I click to the left of an arbitrary line to set
> my breakpoint and then I click on a greenBug to run code
> up to the breakpoint.  Once it is stopped at the breakpoint I can
> inspect various things.
If you are more comfortable with GUI there is a build-in debugger in 
IDLE (Python's "default" GUI) and also in Pythonwin (if you use it on 
M$). I'm sure many more IDE's have a GUI debugger.

IMO pdb is the most powerful one, takes more time to learn though.

HTH.
Miki


From o_gloom at mail.com  Wed Mar 31 09:20:10 2004
From: o_gloom at mail.com (gloom)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 06:20:10 -0800
Subject: problem with wxtextctrl
References: <5b8834c2.0403302358.2698f8f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9f115c52.0403310620.6617b964@posting.google.com>

Have you tried: wxtextctrl::SetMaxLength()
with parameter 0?

hellprout at yahoo.com (hellprout) wrote in message news:<5b8834c2.0403302358.2698f8f3 at posting.google.com>...
> hi , i have a problem with a wxtextctrl with multiline option.
> i want to write a file , line after line , in my wxtextctrl .
> But my file is too longer , and the wxtextctrl can't write the end of
> the file , i miss 100 lines of my file ...
> What can i do to have all data file ?
> 
> what library can i use to replace wxtextctrl ? 
> 
> thanks 
> sylvain 
> ----
> 
> 
> Bonjour , j'ai un probl?me avec un wxtextctrl , j'ai un fichier qui
> dooit ?tre trop long pour la m?moire d'un wxtextctrl donc les 100
> derni?res lignes du fichier n'apparaissent pas .
> Comment puis je faire ?
> dois je changer de methode ?
> 
> merci 
> sylvain


From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 07:02:12 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 04:02:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CAN You help Re: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <4049b71a$0$41754$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <20040306120212.63168.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Jong,
Yes I really want the location of the number matching
in the dictionary.
This is because I have to input these feature vectors
to another program which takes [index: value ] where 
index: is the value specific to dictionary.
I dont care about the addition/extension of the words
in the dictionary but for now, I really want the index
of the word in the dictionary. This is also equivalent
to the line number of the word in the dictionary.


> >for v,i in enumerate(vector):
> >


> Confusing naming. enumerate(iterable) gives a list
> of
> (index, value) tuples.
> When you enumerate a map, the index values are of
> course sequential
> integers, starting with 0, but the values are
> essentially
> arbitrary keys from the mapping.
> So, here you have:
> v == irrelevant integer index value,
> and i == arbitrary key (=word) from vector
> 
> >    vector[i] /= a




> >
> I assume a is an integer, otherwise this would fail.


Yes a is an integer, the total number of words in the
message.



> You divide the count for the word i by a (total
> number
> of words in msg?).
> 
> >    #print v,i, vector[i] ; if u want to see the
> word
> >too that was commmon
> >
> This would print
> <irrelevant index number>, <word>, <wordcount
> divided by a>
> 
> >    print v,":",vector[i]
> >
> This would print
> <irrelevant index number>: <wordcount divided by a>

No. This does not print the corresponding location of
the word in the dictionary, but the location of the
word in the message. I want the location/line number
of the matching word in the dictionary.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  4 09:56:52 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:56:52 -0600
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403032110.35425635@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.2.1078354064.772.python-list@python.org>
	<30260531.0403032110.35425635@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16455.17332.512542.645986@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> From what I've seen, PostgreSQL is more widely supported than MySQL
    >> under Python.

I don't think that's necessarily the case.  It's just that for unknown
reasons there are several PostgreSQL interfaces available in Python.  From
my experience MySQLdb is as well-supported as any of the PostgreSQL
wrappers.

Skip




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 22:07:28 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:07:28 -0600
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <20040310024903.GA27790@frobozz>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<20040310015609.GC782@spawar.navy.mil>
	<20040310024105.GA20145@unpythonic.net>
	<20040310024903.GA27790@frobozz>
Message-ID: <20040310030728.GB20145@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 01:49:03PM +1100, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> Oh!  I didn't know about os.sysconf... I wonder if that's better or worse
> than resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)?

sysconf(3) is POSIX.1, getrlimit() is "SVr4, BSD 4.3".  On my system
(fedora core 1), they give the same results when I tested them:

$ python -c 'import resource, os; print resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE), os.sysconf("SC_OPEN_MAX")'
(1024L, 1024L) 1024

# In a fresh shell
$ ulimit -n 256
$ python -c 'import resource, os; print resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE), os.sysconf("SC_OPEN_MAX")'
(256L, 256L) 256

# In a fresh shell
$ ulimit -S -n 256
$ python -c 'import resource, os; print resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE), os.sysconf("SC_OPEN_MAX")'
(256L, 1024L) 256

Jeff



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 05:51:07 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:51:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <c2c880$sst$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040306105107.18587.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>

You did not get me:
heres what I have to ask:

"How to preserve this attribute -- line
number/position of the word in the dictionary."
For example: If I am comparing words in a message with
the words in a dictionary, whenever there is a match,
I want to record the corresponding location of the
word in the dictionary.
heres the code I am using for matching the words in
the dictionary with the words in the message:

for i in msg:
     if i in dct:
         try:
             vector[i] += 1

         except:
             vector[i] = 1


How to I store the corresponding location of the word
in the dictionary which is matching

and then I will use this location as the key of the
vector and the value is being computed by vector[i]
<I NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING HERE>

for v,i in enumerate(vector):
    vector[i] /= a
    #print v,i, vector[i] ; if u want to see the word
too that was commmon
    print v,":",vector[i]
    #print "\n"



--- Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> dont bother wrote:
> 
> > I have this dictionary output as per the format I
> > desired :
> > index : value
>  
> > However, I want to write this to a file, instead
> of
> > just printing out to the std output.
> 
> > for i, v in enumerate(dct):
> >     print i,":",v
> 
> Here's how to print to a file instead of stdout:
> 
> dest = file("tmp.txt", "w")
> for i, v in enumerate(dct):
>     print >> dest, i, ":", v
> dest.close()
> 
> Peter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From wweston at att.net  Fri Mar 26 11:32:32 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:32:32 GMT
Subject: indexing question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc66rad.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
References: <slrnc66rad.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <AWY8c.44397$PY1.832061@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Faheem Mitha wrote:
> Dear People,
> 
> Suppose I create a numarray arry (say). A numeric array would be fine
> too; it probably does not matter. 
> 
> 
>>>>import numarray
>>>>foo = numarray.reshape(numarray.arange(9),(3,3))
> 
> array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
>        [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
>        [ 8,  9, 10, 11],
>        [12, 13, 14, 15]])
> 
> Is there some way to select the indexes corresponding only to (say)
> two rows or columns?
> 
> ie suppose I just want the first and the fourth row or the first and
> third columns? Is there some clean way to do this which does not
> involve extract individual rows or columns?
> 
> Ie. I want something like
> 
>>>>foo[?,:]
> 
> array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
>        [12, 13, 14, 15]])
> 
> etc. 
> 
> Suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance.
> 
>                                                Faheem.

Faheem,
    On the following like, I see something like what you
want.

http://matpy.sourceforge.net/MatPy/node3.html

wes



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Tue Mar  9 17:30:48 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:30:48 +0100
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<12dq1z2aca4l2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<mailman.189.1078863299.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <73iopmskzdhx$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Jason Tishler (2004-03-09 21:18 +0100)
> On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:30:24AM +0100, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
>> Unfortunately idle under Cygwin has the same problem. I rebased the
>> five TclTk dlls but that didn't changed the error ("os error: resource
>> temporarily unavailable").
> 
> The best (or at least easiest) approach is to just rebase all of your
> DLLs -- use rebaseall.
> 
>> For obvious reason I didn't want to rebase the whole Cygwin
>> installation because that would break a lot of things...
> 
> Can you be more specific?  We cannot address issues if we do not know
> what they are.

I wasn't specific on purpose because this is a Cygwin issue and might
not interest the Python folks. The readme written by this JT guy
states:

,---
| <WARNING>
| Note it is *strongly* recommended that users only use rebaseall unless
| they *really* know what they are doing or are instructed by one of the
| Cygwin developers.
| </WARNING>
`---

I tried 'rebaseall' and it broke at least zsh and sshd - and these
were just the two I noticed immediately. Reemerging zsh helped and
reemerging openssh would have helped probably, too. But the whole
rebase might have broken dozens of other Cygwin apps and when I use
those in a few days and they segfault I might not guess that it was
the rebaseall and that I just have to reemerge them.

So I modified the script that just the file list was written to a file
and I deleted all the non Python dlls in the list. It helped with
IPython but not with idle. On the other hand I still have a working
Cygwin installation (because I tried the "rebaseall" on a copy) - and
this is more worth than a working idle but a broken Cygwin
environment.

All apps were the latest versions and Cygwin was the latest snapshot
1.5.8s from 2004-03-06.

Thorsten


From ark at acm.org  Sat Mar 13 00:26:19 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:26:19 GMT
Subject: strings question
References: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <%Xw4c.11856$H44.213955@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>


"Faheem Mitha" <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem at Chrestomanci.home.earth...

> If I am given two strings, named foo and bar, what is the most elegant
> way to create a string object whose name is the value of foo and whose
> value is the value of bar?

The most elegant way might be to avoid altogether the notion of computing
variable names and use a dict instead.  It is unlikely that you really want
to be able to comput a variable name on the fly, because what happens if the
resulting variable happens to clash with a name that you are already using?

If you could say a little more about your application, perhaps we could tell
you more.




From christian at mvonessen.de  Sat Mar 27 16:17:34 2004
From: christian at mvonessen.de (Christian von Essen)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:17:34 +0100
Subject: Variable in Regex
In-Reply-To: <c1cb4138.0403271250.70e336d0@posting.google.com>
References: <c1cb4138.0403271250.70e336d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c44r1e$nat$1@online.de>

J Hamilton wrote:
> In Perl in can put a scalar variable in a regex as the pattern.
> 
> for example: m/$var/  where $var contains the string I want to match
> 
> Is there a way to do this in Python?

For example:
re.search("%s" % var, StrinToMatch)
or even simpler:
re.search(var, StringToMatch)


From cbrown at metservice.com  Mon Mar 15 14:09:37 2004
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:09:37 +1300
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz><mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list@python.org><4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz><20040314211953.GA9639@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.0.1079317970.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4055fde8$1@news.iconz.co.nz>

"Andrew Bennetts" <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.0.1079317970.12241.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2004 at 03:19:53PM -0600, Jeff Epler wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 08:43:51AM +1300, Colin Brown wrote:
> [...]
> > >     2.    A common usage of sleep is with the difference of two
values. If
> > > it raises an exception on negative numbers then when one takes the
> > > difference of say a timestamp and current-time (real-values), to be
safe you
> > > would need to put the difference in a temporary variable, check that
for
> > > negative and only sleep for positive values - not very elegant.
> >
> > def unsurprising_sleep(d):
> >     if d < 0: return
> >     time.sleep(d)
>
> Or even just:
>
> time.sleep(max(d, 0))
>
> -Andrew.
>
>

Agreed, This is what had I ended up coding, almost acceptable ;-)

Colin





From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Mar 25 16:11:44 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:11:44 GMT
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
	<988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>
	<a3m560hct5ria1cqn27noipmishfpbu8qf@4ax.com>
	<pr766090m2v0i5t1108b92nbtk38u540l8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc66h35.71o.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <pr766090m2v0i5t1108b92nbtk38u540l8 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg wrote:
> descriptive as we want with each keyword.  A quick review of the
> discussion on PEP 318 shows quite a collection already (staticmethod,
> classmethod, onexit, singleton, accepts, returns, generator, ...).

Those are identifiers, not keywords.  They are the names of functions. 

Joe


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar  6 03:41:12 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:41:12 +0100
Subject: import vs from module import : any performance issue?
References: <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c2c2r9$p5t$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:

> Q1:
> I'v seen mentionned in some post that there could be performance issues
> of using:
> 
> from moduleX import whatever
> 
> as opposed to:
> 
> import moduleX
> 
> What would be the performance issues?

You wouldn't put the import statement into an inner loop, so why bother.
Every module is imported once (there is a pathological exception) and
subsequent imports are essentially lookups in sys.modules.
However, moduleX.whatever() is one dictionary lookup slower than the bare 
whatever(), and *that* might occur in an inner loop.

> 
> Q2:
> What happens when names from moduleX are imported using the first former
> syntax in some modules of an application and imported using the latter
> syntax in other modules of the same application?

Nothing. You can even mix both forms in the same module:

>>> import os
>>> from os import walk
>>> os.walk
<function walk at 0x40279a74>
>>> walk
<function walk at 0x40279a74>
>>>

> Q3:
> It's my understanding that using the "from moduleX import whatever"
> syntax in moduleA, all of moduleX code will run and only the name
> "whatever" will be made available to moduleA.  What are the benefit of
> using this syntax then, is it only the fact that you don't have to type
> the "moduleX." prefix in moduleA?

A tiny speedup. The disadvantage being pollution of the importing module's
namespace. Not as bad as from module import *, though.

Peter


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 26 17:43:09 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:43:09 -0700
Subject: import a modified module
References: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
	<mailman.438.1080272287.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5fs8601oef2glokd0i8tbbvso84rrjdku5@4ax.com>
	<c422b1$fo6$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <fsa960pr5jc1iqup4cnvb9irg401pepg32@4ax.com>

On 26 Mar 2004 20:03:45 GMT, mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark
Jackson) wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
>
>> The docs on reload are a little confusing.  I've written a piece at
>> http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm
>> 
>> Your comments are welcome.
>
>Hm.  Your second ("more detailed") example is visually confusing, and
>matters aren't helped by your use of what I would call suboptimal (or
>at least nonstandard-for-Python) terminology such as "references."

I agree the second example is a little too complex.  I might move this
to the exercises section, and replace it with an example Mel Wilson
contributed on this mailing list 3-20-04. This example shows the
module contents before and after a reload, which is very enlightening.

I don't understand why the term "references" is suboptimal.  A module
M1 has a namespace, which is detailed in a dictionary M1.__dict__.
This dictionary contains _references_ to objects in memory (not the
objects themselves).  What terminology would be better?

>This leads you into at least technical error, e.g.

>    Perhaps the most confusing thing about reload is that it changes
>    only references in its own namespace (with names like "M1.a" above).
>    It does not change references outside this namespace (with
>    names like "a" above ).
>
>An admittedly pathological counterexample:
>
>    >>> import M1
>    >>> from M1 import a, b
>    >>> print M1.a, M1.b
>    [1, 2] abc
>    >>> print a, b
>    [1, 2] abc
>    >>> reload(M1)
>    <module 'M1' from 'M1.py'>
>    >>> print M1.a, M1.b
>    [1, 2, 3] ABC
>    >>> print a, b
>    [1, 2, 3] abc
>
>How did a (in the __main__ namespace) track a (in the M1 namespace)?
>Easy - in editing M1.py I replaced:
>
>    a = [1, 2]
>
>with:
>
>    a.append(3)
>
>Of course that *is* pathological - as is, M1.py cannot be freshly
>imported because a would have no initial binding.  But I think in
>explaining reload() one should strive for a formulation under which
>this outcome would not be surprising.

This could be an example in the "Gotchas" section.  What's happening
here is that the a.append(3) statement is changing the memory object
in place.  The references to that object (a and M1.a) are not changed,
and unlike the a = [1,2] statement, no new object is created.

You can verify this with:
>>> a = [1,2]
>>> id(a)
11025840
>>> a.append(3)
>>> a
[1, 2, 3]
>>> id(a)
11025840
>>> 

>(Really, to have a hope of understanding reload one first has to
>understand import.)

Import is covered very thoroughly in six pages at the end of the
chapter just before this.  I've written a short summary, which I will
also hand out in the course.
'''
How Imports Work
(see the Python Language Reference, section 6.12 for details)

Statement forms:

import M1
from M1 import x, y
M1 = __import__('M1')

Procedure:

1. Search for module M1 in the module registry (sys.modules
dictionary)
   If found GOTO 7.

2. Search for M1 in the directories specified in sys.path:
  a. The directory of the current file
  b. The directories in PYTHONPATH
  c. The standard library directories
  d. The directories specified in any .pth files found in the previous
     steps

3. Load M1 into memory, compiling if necessary.

4. Create a new module object with an empty namespace.

5. Add M1 to the module registry.

6. Execute the M1 code in the new module's namespace.

7. Add M1 ( or x and y ) to the local namespace of the scope where the
import statement occurs.
'''

Your feedback is appreciated.

-- Dave




From myang at clarku.edu  Thu Mar 25 15:20:00 2004
From: myang at clarku.edu (myang)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:20:00 -0500
Subject: measure module running time
Message-ID: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMAEINCEAA.myang@clarku.edu>


How can I know a module take how much time? Thanks for any hints. 

Regards,
Yang



From sandip at linux-delhi.org  Tue Mar  2 17:28:07 2004
From: sandip at linux-delhi.org (Sandip Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:58:07 +0530
Subject: A MD5Crypt implementation
Message-ID: <ncefh1-gtj.ln1@pluto.home>

Hi!

I was looking around for a crypt(3) module which can interpret the MD5 
based hashes that the shadow files in Linux use nowadays.

Since I couldnt find any, I went ahead and coded my own - borrowing the 
logic from the appropriate Glibc file.

I really hope that I havent duplicated effort already done in an 
existing module (which I havent been able to spot till now). If I have, 
do break the news to me as gently as you could ;), 'coz I spent a good 
number of hours on this.

I am a new python user. Please take a look at 
http://www.puroga.com/py/CryptMD5.py and tell me how I could have coded 
it better.

Thanks,
   Sandip

-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
sandip (at) puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
Work: http://www.puroga.com        Home: http://www.sandipb.net

GPG: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 14 11:15:16 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:15:16 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <bri8509bb89euassu0r95su43a4lq4vssb@4ax.com>
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2.1079209742.688.python-list@python.org>
	<bri8509bb89euassu0r95su43a4lq4vssb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16468.34068.903846.141401@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> I wrote something and threw it up on my Python Bits page:
    >> 
    >> http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/

    Dave> I get AttributeErrors when I try the super_reload function. Looks
    Dave> like sys.modules has a bunch of items with no '__dict__'.

You can put objects in sys.modules which are not module objects.  I updated
the code to use getattr() and setattr() during the rebinding step.  I think
that will help, though of course this entire exercise is obviously only an
approximation to a solution.

Skip




From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Mar 25 17:26:01 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:26:01 GMT
Subject: [Way OT] Condorcet vs. IRV
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet@verizon.net>
	<slrnc66do0.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc66led.77h.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet at verizon.net>, Eric wrote:
> Off the top of my head, the only inherent problem with it that I see is
> that what happens if 'NONE' turns out to be the Condorcet Winner? 

Then the electorate has expressed its sincere opinion that no government
at all is better than any of the candidates.  Government should be
immediately dissolved and anarchy instituted.

I have friends who would be delighted.

It just occured to me that this is the exact case we have for PEP's, but
with NONE as an explicit option.

Joe


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 12:06:05 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:06:05 -0600
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3kgmg$280tkl$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3kgmg$280tkl$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16477.52093.661128.582035@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> Guido would be free to eliminate the Python VM from the next version
    >> of Python and instead directly interpret the abstract syntax tree
    >> emitted by the compiler.

    Jon> eh...?  If interpreting the AST isn't what the CPython VM does,
    Jon> then what does it do?

It interprets the Python bytecodes.

    >> PyChecker and other tools which operate directly with the bytecode
    >> would break, but Python applications should still work.

    Jon> Does this mean that you will need a different version of PyChecker
    Jon> for each Python .x release?

Not necessarily.  It doesn't know everything there is to know about Python
bytecode, but it does know some bytecodes and rummages around in code
objects a bit, so if there was no bytecode it would have nothing to rummage
through.

Skip



From sandip at linux-delhi.org  Wed Mar  3 22:17:09 2004
From: sandip at linux-delhi.org (Sandip Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:47:09 +0530
Subject: A MD5Crypt implementation
In-Reply-To: <ncefh1-gtj.ln1@pluto.home>
References: <ncefh1-gtj.ln1@pluto.home>
Message-ID: <lmjih1-kvt.ln1@pluto.home>

Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I was looking around for a crypt(3) module which can interpret the MD5 
> based hashes that the shadow files in Linux use nowadays.
> 
> Since I couldnt find any, I went ahead and coded my own - borrowing the 
> logic from the appropriate Glibc file.
> 
> I really hope that I havent duplicated effort already done in an 
> existing module (which I havent been able to spot till now). If I have, 
> do break the news to me as gently as you could ;), 'coz I spent a good 
> number of hours on this.
> 
> I am a new python user. Please take a look at 
> http://www.puroga.com/py/CryptMD5.py and tell me how I could have coded 
> it better.
> 

eesh. I should have googled some more. I found atleast two 
implementations for what I had already done. :(

And written much better. ;)


http://www.chrisarndt.de/en/software/python/authlib.py.html
http://www.sabren.net/code/python/crypt/md5crypt.py

- Sandip

-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
sandip (at) puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
Work: http://www.puroga.com        Home: http://www.sandipb.net

GPG: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3




From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 01:38:28 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:38:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Sorting Driving Crazy: URGENT: PLEASE HELP 
In-Reply-To: <Dlw4c.789400$X%5.393213@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <20040313063828.88078.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com>

This is really driving me crazy.

I have a dictionary feature_vectors{}. I try to sort
its keys using

#apply sorting on feature_vectors
sorted_feature_vector=feature_vectors.keys()
sorted_feature_vector.sort()

#feature_vector.keys()=sorted_feature_vector

new_feature_element={}
new_feature_vector={}

for x in sorted_feature_vector:
    print "SORTING\n"
    print x, '\t',feature_vectors[x]
    count=0
    if(count==0):
        new_feature_element=str(1)+"
"+str(x)+":"+str(feature_vectors[x])+" "
    else:
       
new_feature_element=str(x)+":"+str(feature_vectors[x])+"
"
        count=count+1
       
new_feature_vector=str(new_feature_vector)+str(new_feature_element)
        new_feature_vector=new_feature_vector+"\n"
    
print "New Dictionary"


When I print x and feature_vectors[x]  I get some of
the entries which are not in the increasing order.

22836 	7.46464646465
SORTING

22840 	2.19977553311
SORTING

22841 	2.69809203143
SORTING

22842 	0.617283950617
SORTING

22844 	4.61279461279
SORTING

22846 	93.1537598204
SORTING

2357 	0.00224466891134
SORTING

3105 	0.00224466891134
SORTING

3117 	0.00224466891134
SORTING

3675 	0.003367003367
SORTING

4280 	0.00224466891134
SORTING






This should not happen but why is this happening and
how to fix this.

My problem is given a dictionary, sort the keys and
have a new dictionary with the key, values where the
keys are in increasing order.

I would be really grateful if anyone can help me out

Thanks
Dont



--- midtoad <stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org> wrote:
> dont bother wrote:
> 
> > I have a string:
> > 
> > feature_vector. It is of the form
> > <index: value, index: value, index: value>
> > 
> > I want to make this string into a dictionary so
> that I
> > can apply .keys() method
> 
> okay, here's a solution, assuming that your < and >
> are part of the string.
> If not, remove the line where you take a slice.  
> I'm sure that there are
> more Pythonic solutions, but this works...
> 
> ---
> import string
> 
> # define a test string
> s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
> # get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
> s1 = s1[1:-1]
> # split string at the commas
> s2 = string.split(s1,',')
> mydict = {}
> for item in s2:
>         a,b = string.split(item,":")
>         mydict[a] = b
>         print mydict[a]
> print "Dictionary is: ", mydict
> ---
> 
> cheers
> Stewart
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Mar 29 13:57:32 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:57:32 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>

I wrote:

I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
25?

...and got replies:

[PF]
> When you look for dupes, you must hold only the keys
> in memory, not the data (it'll be a lot faster this way).

Yup. The data is handled one line at a time from files; I only retain an
index for certain fields. The 'non-key' data comes and goes quickly.

[Peter Otten]
> You might try a minor change:
> 
> for i in x:
>     c[i] = None

Thanks, but I need the test. If i is already in x, I need to delete that
field from the current row.

[Josiah Carlson]
> I would suggest a multi-phase method.  Break the sequence up into 100k
> element blocks each and remove duplicates using dictionaries.  Sort
each
> block individually and write each to a file.
> Merge the 100 files by using a heapq.

I'll look into it. I was trying to do the whole thing in one pass of the
original dataset, but I might be able to handle two or more passes (the
source files have additional info for each record which is not included
in the indices). I don't *think* the source files will mutate
in-between. ;)

Currently, the dict method takes ~ 2 hours, and the bsddb method
(in-memory btrees) took ~ 18 hours.

Thanks, all!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Wed Mar 24 06:35:11 2004
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 03:35:11 -0800
Subject: Decent way to trace resource leaks?
References: <87r7vk7dnc.fsf@strauser.com>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0403240335.2e93a69c@posting.google.com>

Kirk Strauser <kirk at strauser.com> wrote in message:
> Ideally, I'd like to find a way to dump the process's object hierarchy to
> the screen or a file in a tree or graph format.  Even without variable
> names, it'd be tremendously helpful to see that there are 87 instances of
> Foo objects, each with 20 Bar objects as data members.

Take a look at Misc/SpecialBuilds.txt in the Python source
distribution.  I find the facilities described therein quite useful
for eliminating reference count leaks.

> Although I'm running the application on Windows, I'm doing all development 
> on a Linux system (using Subversion to synchronize source trees across 
> machines, in case anyone is interested), so I'd prefer something native to
> Python and not a Windows-specific GUI debugger.

If you're using C libraries that you think might be leaking memory
"the traditional way", try Valgrind (http://valgrind.kde.org/ ). 
Valgrind is the best thing since sliced bread.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  1 12:44:46 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 12:44:46 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vqkk$1ui$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<6uK0c.4347$mx4.106055@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <c1vsqe$6rh$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <6uK0c.4347$mx4.106055 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Nicolas Fleury  <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>
>> What's "RAII"?
>
>"Resource Acquisition Is Initialization"
>It's a term frequently used in C++ to describe the use of constructor 
>and destructor for resource allocation/deallocation.

As Michael Hudson said, it doesn't work that way in Python, because all
Python objects are global (and I mean truly global here, not just module
global).  Essentially, all objects are heap objects that can be traced
by crawling through Python's internals.

>> Perhaps, but threading needs references to created threads in order to
>> implement its functionality.  You might try building your own thread
>> constructs using ``thread`` directly.
>
>I still don't know how to implement it.  I can do something very simple 
>like:
>
>class Canceller:
>     def __init__(self, thread):
>         self.thread = thread
>     def __del__(self):
>         self.thread.cancel()
>         self.thread.join()
>
>but I can't merge the concept with a Thread class, because the self 
>passed to run would be a reference to the object...  I don't know if a 
>language extension would be worth the effort or if there's a cool 
>solution I'm missing, but what is sure is that I write a lot of code to 
>cancel threads in finalizers of parent objects.  I don't want deamon 
>threads so that everything is stopped cleanly, but at the same time it 
>is error-prone in a GUI application, because I risk to have the process 
>still running after a quit.

Right.  As I said, you have to use the ``thread`` module directly; you
can't use ``threading``.

>I just want a way to garantee that all my threads are cancelled when the 
>main thread is finished.

So hold references to them and call the ``cancel()`` method yourself.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From me at me.com  Wed Mar 24 10:32:42 2004
From: me at me.com (Jason Sewall)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:32:42 -0500
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done? LONG, CODE
In-Reply-To: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063agrbgi7n394@corp.supernews.com>

WARNING: Long post, contains code
Hey everyone -

I've found time to make a few different versions of that slow image 
processing app that I was working on. I chucked abstraction out the 
window and made a built-in-type-only implementation that was ugly as sin 
(reminded me of assembly code, if you can believe it) but it was about 
5-6x faster.

That still wasn't enough for me so I figured out how to do C extensions 
and wrote a module in C for the transforms. That's noticably faster, but 
I'm sad to say that there's a bit of overhead in the argument grabs and 
returns that slows it down. Anyway, it's not too bad.

For the hell of it, here's the app, without much in the way of comments 
or info. Sorry, too bad. The algorithm is due to Beier and Neely 1992 
but the code is mine.


from Tkinter import *
import Image
import ImageTk
from math import sqrt
import _warp
import psyco
psyco.full()

class WarpGUI(Frame):
     def __init__(self, parent=None):
         Frame.__init__(self, parent)
         self.pack()
         self.lines = list()
         self.lcanv = WarpCanvas(self, "", 0)
        # self.mcanv = WarpCanvas(self, "")
         self.rcanv = WarpCanvas(self, "", 1)
         self.alpha = Scale(self, label='a',
               from_=0.01,
               to=2.0,
               orient='horizontal',
               tickinterval=0.05,
               resolution=0.01,
               length=1200,
               showvalue=YES)
         self.alpha.pack(side=TOP)
         self.beta = Scale(self, label='b',
               from_=0.0,
               to=5.0,
               orient='horizontal',
               tickinterval=0.1,
               resolution=0.1,
               length=1200,
               showvalue=YES)
         self.beta.pack(side=TOP)
         self.rho = Scale(self, label='rho',
               from_=0.0,
               to=5.0,
               orient='horizontal',
               tickinterval=0.1,
               resolution=0.1,
               length=1200,
               showvalue=YES)
         self.rho.pack(side=TOP)

         self.lcanv.pack(side=LEFT)
        # self.mcanv.pack(side=LEFT)
         self.rcanv.pack(side=LEFT)
         self.bind_all('<Button-2>', lambda event: 
self.lcanv.warp(self.rcanv, self.lines, self.alpha.get(), 
self.beta.get(), self.rho.get()))
     def add_lines(self, x0, y0, x1, y1):
         id1 = self.lcanv.add_line(x0, y0, x1, y1)
         id2 = self.rcanv.add_line(x0, y0, x1, y1)
         self.lines.append(( [float(x0), float(y0), float(x1), 
float(y1), id1], [float(x0), float(y0), float(x1), float(y1), id2]))
         self.lcanv.make_bindings()
         self.rcanv.make_bindings()
     def highlight_line(self, lineID):
         self.lcanv.highlight_line(lineID)
         self.rcanv.highlight_line(lineID)
     def unhighlight_line(self, lineID):
         self.lcanv.unhighlight_line(lineID)
         self.rcanv.unhighlight_line(lineID)
     def get_line(self, lineID, side):
         for item in self.lines:
             if item[side][4] == lineID:
                 return item[side]


class WarpCanvas(Canvas):
     def __init__(self, parent=None, file=None, side=None):
         Canvas.__init__(self, parent)
         self.parent = parent
         self.current_line = list()
         self.side = side
         self.make_bindings()
         if not file == None:
             self.image_data = Image.open(file)
             self.config(width=self.image_data.size[0], 
height=self.image_data.size[1])
             self.image_tk = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.image_data)
             self.image_id = self.create_image(0, 0, 
image=self.image_tk, anchor=NW)
     def make_bindings(self):
         self.bind('<Double-1>', self.get_line1)
         self.unbind('<Motion>')
         self.unbind('<ButtonRelease-1>')
         if len(self.parent.lines) > 0:
             self.bind('<Button-1>', self.move_line)
     def get_line1(self, event):
         self.bind('<Button-1>', self.get_line2)
         self.cand1 = (event.x, event.y)
     def add_line(self, x0, y0, x1, y1):
         return self.create_line(x0, y0, x1, y1, arrow=LAST)
     def highlight_line(self, lineID):
         self.itemconfig(lineID, fill='yellow')
     def unhighlight_line(self, lineID):
         self.itemconfig(lineID, fill='black')
     def get_line2(self, event):
         self.parent.add_lines(self.cand1[0], self.cand1[1], event.x, 
event.y)
     def move_line(self, event):
         lineID = self.find_closest(event.x, event.y, halo= 5)
         if lineID[0] > 1:
             self.parent.highlight_line(lineID[0])
             self.current_line = self.parent.get_line(lineID[0], self.side)
             dist1 = (self.current_line[0] - 
event.x)**2+(self.current_line[1] - event.y)**2
             dist2 = (self.current_line[2] - 
event.x)**2+(self.current_line[3] - event.y)**2
             if dist1 <= dist2:
                 self.bind('<Motion>', self.adjust_point1)
             else:
                 self.bind('<Motion>', self.adjust_point2)
             self.bind('<ButtonRelease-1>', lambda event: 
self.parent.unhighlight_line(lineID) or self.make_bindings())

         else :
             self.bind('<ButtonRelease-1>', lambda event: 
self.make_bindings())
     def adjust_point1(self, event):
         self.coords(self.current_line[4], event.x, event.y, 
self.current_line[2], self.current_line[3])
         self.current_line[0] = float(event.x)
         self.current_line[1] = float(event.y)
     def adjust_point2(self, event):
         self.coords(self.current_line[4], self.current_line[0], 
self.current_line[1], event.x, event.y,)
         self.current_line[2] = float(event.x)
         self.current_line[3] = float(event.y)
     def update_image(self):
         self.image_tk = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.image_data)
         self.itemconfigure(self.image_id, image=self.image_tk)
     def warp(self, source, all_lines, alpha, beta, rho):
     # Do transformPoint on each pixel, save results
     # This is the slow part of the program
         dest = list(self.image_data.getdata())
         src = list(source.image_data.getdata())
         newdata = _warp.warp(dest, src, self.image_data.size[0], 
self.image_data.size[1], all_lines, len(all_lines), 0, alpha, beta, rho)
         self.image_data.putdata(newdata)
         self.update_image()

if __name__ == '__main__':
     WarpGUI().mainloop()

Here's the code for the _warp module:

#include "python.h"
#include "math.h"
#include "stdio.h"

typedef struct warp_line {
	float x0;
	float y0;
	float x1;
	float y1;
} warp_line;

// a testing function for the passing of lists into C arrays and back 
out again

PyObject * warp(PyObject * source1, PyObject * source2, int w, int h, 
PyObject * lines, int nlines, double alpha, double a, double b, double p)
{
	int i,j,k;
	double weightsum;
	double dsumx, dsumy;
	double u, v;
	double q_px, q_py;
	double x_px, x_py;
	double q_p_primex, q_p_primey;
	double dot_primex, dot_primey;
	double x_primex, x_primey;
	double d_ix, d_iy;
	double weight;
	double temp;
	double dist;
	
	unsigned char * s1;
	unsigned char * s2;
	unsigned char * s3;
	warp_line * lines1;
	warp_line * lines2;
	
	// we have two sources in the forms of lists of 3-tuples of integers
	// the lists are w*h in length
	// we have two sources, so we allocate...
	
	// I realize that I'm missing error checking here; oh well - it's not 
the problem
	s1 = (unsigned char *) malloc(w*h*3*sizeof(unsigned char));
	s2 = (unsigned char *) malloc(w*h*3*sizeof(unsigned char));
	s3 = (unsigned char *) malloc(w*h*3*sizeof(unsigned char));
	
	lines1 = (warp_line *) malloc(nlines*sizeof(warp_line));
	lines2 = (warp_line *) malloc(nlines*sizeof(warp_line));
	
	// some pointer holders
	PyObject * returnval;
	PyObject * innerlist;
	PyObject * pychar;
	
	// loop over all data
	for(i = 0; i < w*h*3; i+=3)
	{
		// get tuple
		innerlist = PyList_GetItem(source1, i/3);

		// write out tuple to array
		s1[i] = PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 0));
		s1[i+1] = PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 1));
		s1[i+2] = PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 2));
		
		// ditto for list 2
		innerlist = PyList_GetItem(source2, i/3);
		s2[i] = PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 0));
		s2[i+1] = PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 1));
		s2[i+2] = PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 2));
	}
	
	for(i = 0; i < nlines ; i++)
	{
		innerlist = PyList_GetItem(lines, i);
		pychar = PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 0);
		lines1[i].x0 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 0));
		lines1[i].y0 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 1));		
		lines1[i].x1 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 2));
		lines1[i].y1 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 3));
		
		pychar = PyTuple_GetItem(innerlist, 1);
		lines2[i].x0 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 0));
		lines2[i].y0 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 1));		
		lines2[i].x1 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 2));
		lines2[i].y1 = PyFloat_AsDouble(PyList_GetItem(pychar, 3));
	}
	
	for(i = 0; i < w; i++)
	{
		for(j = 0; j < h; j++)
		{			
                 dsumx = 0.0;
                 dsumy = 0.0;
                 weightsum = 0.0;

                 for(k = 0; k < nlines; k++)
                 {
                     x_px = i - lines1[k].x0;
                     x_py = j - lines1[k].y0;
                     q_px = lines1[k].x1 - lines1[k].x0;
                     q_py = lines1[k].y1 - lines1[k].y0;

                     u = (x_px * q_px + x_py * q_py) / (q_px*q_px + 
q_py*q_py);
                     v = (x_px * q_py - x_py * q_px) / sqrt(q_px*q_px + 
q_py*q_py);

                     q_p_primex = lines2[k].x1 - lines2[k].x0;
                     q_p_primey = lines2[k].y1 - lines2[k].y0;

                     temp = v / sqrt(q_p_primex * q_p_primex + 
q_p_primey * q_p_primey);
                     dot_primex = temp * q_p_primey;
                     dot_primey = - temp * q_p_primex;

                     x_primex = lines2[k].x0 + u * q_p_primex + dot_primex;
                     x_primey = lines2[k].y0 + u * q_p_primey + dot_primey;

                     d_ix = x_primex - i;
                     d_iy = x_primey - j;

                     if ((0.0 <= u) && (u <= 1.0))
                     {
                         dist = abs(v);
                     }
                     else if (u < 0.0)
                     {
                         dist = sqrt(pow((i - lines1[k].x0), 2.0) + 
pow((j - lines1[k].y0), 2.0));
                     }
                     else if (u > 1.0)
                     {
                         dist = sqrt(pow((i - lines1[k].x1),2.0) + 
pow((j - lines1[k].y1), 2.0));
                     }

                     weight = 
pow(pow(sqrt(pow(lines1[k].y1-lines1[k].y0, 
2.0)+pow(lines1[k].x1-lines1[k].x0, 2.0)), p)/(a + dist), b);
                     dsumx = dsumx + d_ix * weight;
                     dsumy = dsumy + d_iy * weight;
                     weightsum += weight;
                 }

                 x_primex = (int) (i + dsumx / weightsum);
                 x_primey = (int) (j + dsumy / weightsum);

                 if ((0 <= x_primex) && (x_primex < w ) && (0 <= 
x_primey) && (x_primey < h))
                 {
                     s3[(i + j*w)*3] = s2[(int) (x_primex + x_primey*w)*3];
                     s3[(i + j*w)*3+1] = s2[(int) (x_primex + 
x_primey*w)*3+1];
                     s3[(i + j*w)*3+2] = s2[(int) (x_primex + 
x_primey*w)*3+2];
                 }
                 else
                 {
                     s3[(i + j*w)*3] = 0;
                     s3[(i + j*w)*3+1] = 0;
                     s3[(i + j*w)*3+2] = 0;
                 }
		}
     }

	// prepare return list
	returnval = PyList_New(w*h);
	
	// fill list	
	for(i = 0; i < w*h*3; i+=3)
	{
		// make a tuple
		innerlist = PyTuple_New(3);
		
		// fill tuple with 3 values		
		pychar = PyInt_FromLong((long)s3[i]);	
		
		PyTuple_SetItem(innerlist, 0, pychar);
		
		pychar = PyInt_FromLong((long)s3[i+1]);

		PyTuple_SetItem(innerlist, 1, pychar);
		
		pychar = PyInt_FromLong((long)s3[i+2]);

		PyTuple_SetItem(innerlist, 2, pychar);
		
		// store tuple in list
		PyList_SetItem(returnval, i/3, innerlist);
		
		// manually get rid of list
	//	Py_DECREF(innerlist);

	}
	
	//free storage
	free(s1);
	free(s2);
	free(s3);
	free(lines1);
	free(lines2);
	
	// done
	return returnval;
	
}





From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 12:58:35 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:58:35 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
> # Library pseudocode
> 
> _fooRegistry = []
> 
> obj _Foo: # prototype object
>     # Foo's code goes here
> 
> def Foo(): # constructor function
>     newFoo = _Foo.copy()
>     _fooRegistry.append(newFoo)
>     return newFoo
> 
> 
> Dirt simple with not an ounce of class metaprogramming in sight.

Is Foo() the standard syntax for making a new _Foo object?  If this is a
new wrapper you just created, then it's no different than adding a
register() method - the user has to know that something different is
being done.

If Foo() is the standard syntax, and you're just overriding the
implementation here, does that get inherited?  If so, this missed the
condition that only some of the descendants should get added to the
registry.  If not - well, inheriting the constructor seems like the more
useful behaviour in general, so why not?

Joe


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 04:09:56 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:09:56 -0000
Subject: monitoring a directory
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347D7@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>What would be the most efficient or 'clever' way to monitor a 
>directory 
>for file additions/ modifications on windows?
>
>Currently I'm looping through the directory with a 1 sec delay. But 
>doesn't seem that clever.

There are two methods that I know of (apart from the simple approach you
describe). One is described in this recipe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/156178

This is simple to use, but falls down a bit if you have more than a few
files in the directory, since it doesn't know what's changed. It's fine if
you're just happy to rescan, say for a file-manager app.

The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the
recently-added-to-pywin32 win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW functionality.
Example follows. (I keep meaning to send this up as a recipe, but I never
quite seem to manage). In essence, ReadDirectoryChangesW returns a list of
tuples, each of which is an (action, filename) pair. The actions -- by
experiment -- are held in the ACTIONS dictionary. A rename will always give
a list of two tuples, one with the before and one with the after. Other
compound actions (such as deleting a set of files) may also give a
more-than-one list of tuples. Play around with it. It works.

<code>

import os
import sys
import time

import win32file
import win32con

ACTIONS = {
  1 : "Created",
  2 : "Deleted",
  3 : "Updated",
  4 : "Renamed to something",
  5 : "Renamed from something"
}
## 1 - create
## 2 - delete
## 3 - update (including security change)
## 4 & 5 - before & after on a rename

try: path_to_watch = sys.argv[1] or "."
except: path_to_watch = "."
path_to_watch = os.path.abspath (path_to_watch)

print "Watching %s at %s" % (path_to_watch, time.asctime ())

FILE_LIST_DIRECTORY = 0x0001

hDir = win32file.CreateFile (
    path_to_watch,
    FILE_LIST_DIRECTORY,
    win32con.FILE_SHARE_READ | win32con.FILE_SHARE_WRITE,
    None,
    win32con.OPEN_EXISTING,
    win32con.FILE_FLAG_BACKUP_SEMANTICS,
    None
)
   
while 1:
  results = win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW (
    hDir,
    1024,
    True,
    win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_FILE_NAME | 
     win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_DIR_NAME |
     win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_ATTRIBUTES |
     win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_SIZE |
     win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_LAST_WRITE |
     win32con.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_SECURITY,
    None,
    None
  )
  print '-*-*-*'
  for action, file in results:
    full_filename = os.path.join (path_to_watch, file)
    if os.path.isdir (full_filename):
      file_type = 'folder'
    else:
      file_type = 'file'
    print file_type, file, ACTIONS.get (action, "Unknown")

</code>

TJG

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From hjwidmaier at web.de  Thu Mar 18 01:52:55 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 22:52:55 -0800
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.83.1079535848.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0403172252.6716f7ce@posting.google.com>

David Goodger <goodger at python.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.83.1079535848.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
>  > This calls for a command line like CVS or subverion employ:
>  >
>  > <cmd> <generic options> <subcmd> <subcmd options> <args>
> 
> I suggest the following:
> 
> 1. Build an OptionParser for your <cmd> that accepts only the generic
>     options.  Make sure to call
>     OptionParser.disable_interspersed_args() before calling
>     .parse_args().  The first argument in the returned args list should
>     be your <subcmd> (be sure to check!).

As I wrote somewhat later: I dislike
OptionParser.disable_interspersed_args().
<subcmd> is in reality just another option (as it's not really a
command; it selects a plugin that handles the special requirements of
a device).

> 2. Once you know your <subcmd>, build a new OptionParser that handles
>     its options.  Pass the argument list returned from step 1 (less the
>     subcmd) to .parse_args().

I have a generic interface that handles the generic options, scans its
directory for plug-ins and imports them. If one is selected, the
not-consumed arguments (and options) are passed to it. The plug-in
then does standard option parsing.
Works like a charm. (Bigger picture: The whole thing has a GUI also,
where you can select the plug-in interactively; the whole commandline
thing is to allow for a batch mode, too.)

>     If you really want the subcmd's option parser to handle the <cmd>'s
>     generic options too, you could augment the OptionParser built in
>     step 1:

There's just one option that needs to be handled, too (so it can be
called itself). Trivial to just define it with SUPPRESS_HELP if not
called standalone.

>  >  - Augment optparse to just ignore unknown options and treat them as
>  > arguments.
>
> There goes all error-checking.

Nah, it doesn't. Of course this is optional, and after the plug-in
parses the remains, there's nothing left to worry about.
 
>  > doesn't allow for generic options to be arguments to
>  > subcommand-specific options,
> 
> What does that mean?

E.g. if you have a generic option --bar and a subcmd-specific option
--foo that takes a string argument. Now if you call

<cmd> <subcmd> --foo --bar

--bar will be seen as a generic option and not as an argument to
--foo. But that's not really a problem, as it _is_ ambigous anyway
(might be a forgotten argument after all).

> Your "minor points" will be major to someone else, so I doubt a
> simplistic patch will be accepted.  But by all means, show the code
> (not here though; see below).

The patch is just a few lines (and took much less time to write than
this article), and it only implements an optional argument to
OptionParser.parse_args() that allows it to treat unknown options as
arguments.

> In any case, discussions here are unlikely to be seen, and almost
> certainly won't be acted upon.  I suggest posting to the optik-users
> (@lists.sf.net) list or filing a feature request.  A working code,
> test, & doc patch would be helpful too.

Thanks for your suggestion.
Hans-Joachim


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 17:33:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:33:26 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16479.27062.997203.425015@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Hung Jung> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7x1xnlqs77.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...

    >> "def foo() as staticmethod" certainly looks best to me aesthetically.
    >> The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
    >> to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
    >> compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order to
    >> decide if it's a generator.

    Hung Jung> True, but if a method were both generator and static, then we
    Hung Jung> would have:

    Hung Jung> def foo() as generator staticmethod:
    Hung Jung>     ...

    Hung Jung> Add another keyword for thread behavior:

Gotta stop thinking of decorators as keywords.  That would be a complete
non-starter.  It would be both inflexible (need to modify the parser every
time a new one was added) and constraining (require everyone to use the same
small set of "approved" decorators).  Decorators are variables referencing
objects which are located at function/method/class definition time.

    Hung Jung> def foo() as synchronized generator staticmethod:
    Hung Jung>     ....

    Hung Jung> And another keyword for privacy:

    Hung Jung> def foo() as private synchronized generator staticmethod:
    Hung Jung>     ....

    Hung Jung> And your language become pretty close to... Java! :)

And gets fairly unreadable because of the lack of punctuation.  I think
square brackets and commas improve readability a bit for those nearly
unreadable long sequences of decorators:

    def foo() [private, synchronized, generator, staticmethod]:

Skip



From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Mar 20 19:16:08 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:16:08 GMT
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc5pm19.nj8.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c3hknq$2864jv$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>, Jon Perez wrote:
> Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
> apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
> to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
> files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
> JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.

Spoken like a man who hasn't used much Java.

Joe


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  1 11:02:59 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:02:59 -0500
Subject: comp.lang.python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.214.1077911572.8594.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.214.1077911572.8594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x4ydnT7bLNnTwd7dRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Marcello Pietrobon wrote:
> Is the server comp.lang.python working or not ?

Wrong question.  comp.lang.python is not a server, it's a Usenet 
newsgroup.  It should be carried by your own news server.

> If yes,
> what settings do I need in order to see this mailing list in newsgroup 
> form ?

This is really a question to ask your internet service provider (ISP), 
not this group.  The group works for everyone else, and if other groups 
are also working for you, then likely your ISP simply doesn't carry it. 
   Call them to inquire further...


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 16:55:07 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:55:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does python's minidom support Chinese?
Message-ID: <20040310215507.95787.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>

The following 4 lines of code parses an XML document
very well if the XML document contains only English
words.

But when I insert one Chinese character into the XML
document, then Python starts to complain when it hits
the Chinese character, saying that it is an invalid
token and thus it is not well-formed.

This is the complaint of Python:

ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 3,
column 7

line 3 and column 7 exactly pinpoints the 1st Chinese
character in the XML document.

The problem remains even if I try encoding="UTF-16" or
encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
document.

Note that GB2312 and GBK are Chinese encodings.

Please give a hint.  Thanks a lot!

The 4 lines of code I used is here:

# -*- coding: cp936 -*-
from xml.dom import minidom
xmldoc = minidom.parse('test.xml')
print xmldoc.toxml()



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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  2 12:13:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:13:44 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
References: <mailman.3.1078182801.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<c226rk$8u5$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.26.1078239353.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c22fc8$jtc$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 03:48:19PM +0100, Peter Otten wrote:
>> Do you have a class with immutable instances handy where the following
>> assertion fails?
>> 
>> assert immutableObj.__class__(immutableObj) is immutableObj
> 
> Python 2.3.2 (#1, Oct 17 2003, 10:41:07)
>>>> import sets
>>>> ii = sets.ImmutableSet([1,2,3])
>>>> ii.__class__(ii) is ii
> False

You win :-) 

Now I think about it (again), the above is the behaviour to be expected for
every immutable class (at least if it's implemented in Python, don't know
about C) that predates the advent of __new__().

By the way, is ImmutableSet meant to stay? In the 1.4 setobject.c code there
is a frozenset which _has_ the "do I really need to copy" check:

if (iterable != NULL && PyFrozenSet_CheckExact(iterable)) {
    Py_INCREF(iterable);
    return iterable;
}

Peter



From kbk at shore.net  Sun Mar 14 20:03:28 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:03:28 GMT
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.320.1079113077.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<87y8q52pvb.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<4052BD1F.B8190E0D@pobox.com> <87brmz3khm.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
	<4054A2A5.9032BE1B@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <877jxm3orj.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

Jason Harper <JasonHarper at pobox.com> writes:

> In a non-subprocess IDLE, you don't have to hit a breakpoint to be able
> to examine a running Tkinter program.  Both the shell window and the
> user program are fully responsive at the same time.  For example, you
> could type a command to change the appearance of a button, and
> IMMEDIATELY try out the button with its new appearance, since the
> mainloop is still running.  This ability is lost in a subprocess IDLE.

OK, another good reason to retain the non-subprocess capability.  The
user Tkinter code is mixed in with IDLE's Tkinkter code, but there is
a practical use for experimenting with layouts.  To get this to work
cleanly, you eliminate the mainloop() call and use destroy():

===================
IDLE without subprocess (-n switch):

from Tkinter import *

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):

        frame = Frame(master)
        frame.pack()

        self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red",
                             command=self.quit)
        self.button.pack(side=LEFT)

        self.hi_there = Button(frame, text="Hello",
                               command=self.say_hi)
        self.hi_there.pack(side=LEFT)

    def say_hi(self):
        print "hi there, everyone!"

    def quit(self):
        print "quitting"
        a = raw_input("prompt: ")
        print a
        root.destroy()

root = Tk()
app = App(root)

=======================

And, as you say, you can do amusing things like

>>> app.button["text"]
'QUIT'
>>> app.button["text"] = "REALLY QUIT"

-- 
KBK


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Sat Mar  6 07:26:45 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:26:45 -0300 (ART)
Subject: Getting definition list
In-Reply-To: <20040306071202.18241.00000981@mb-m06.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040306122645.67170.qmail@web61002.mail.yahoo.com>


===============================================
import test

for m in dir(test):
  print m
===============================================

Aloysio

 --- Bluexcell <bluexcell at aol.com> escreveu: 
> ok so i  use import to import a py file into my script.
> 
> is there a way to list all the defined function labels that exist in
> the
> imported file?
> 
> ie if  i import a file called test and test has defined functions 
> called
> myfunction1 my function2  myfunction3 etc    but i dont know  them, 
> is there a
> method to list all the function labels in test and print them  as a
> listing
> 
> test.mfunction1
> test.myfunction2
> test.myfunction3
> 
> etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 18:31:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:31:37 -0600
Subject: Is this a bug?
In-Reply-To: <4cc8f8db.0403091415.e606e29@posting.google.com>
References: <4cc8f8db.0403091415.e606e29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040309233137.GA19788@unpythonic.net>

Your example boils down to this:
>>> list.__new__(list, [1, 2])
[]

It's not a bug.  list.__new__ allocates a new (empty) instance, then
list.__init__ fills it in:

>>> l = list.__new__(list)
>>> l
[]
>>> list.__init__(l, [1, 2, 3])
>>> l
[1, 2, 3]

Mutable objects are free to do things in this way.  For immutable
objects, like tuple, __new__ must fill in the created instance, and
__init__ does nothing:

>>> t = tuple.__new__(tuple, [1, 2, 3])
>>> t
(1, 2, 3)
>>> t.__init__([1, 2, 3])
>>> t
(1, 2, 3)
>>> t.__init__([1, 2, 3, 4])
>>> t
(1, 2, 3)

As you can see from the last few lines, "nothing" includes not detecting
that __init__ has been called a second time with a different argument!

Here's a passage from the "descrintro" document that addresses this
topic:

    Overriding the __new__ method
    =============================

    When subclassing immutable built-in types like numbers and strings, and
    occasionally in other situations, the static method __new__ comes in
    handy. __new__ is the first step in instance construction, invoked
    before __init__. The __new__ method is called with the class as its
    first argument; its responsibility is to return a new instance of that
    class. Compare this to __init__: __init__ is called with an instance as
    its first argument, and it doesn't return anything; its responsibility
    is to initialize the instance. There are situations where a new instance
    is created without calling __init__ (for example when the instance is
    loaded from a pickle). There is no way to create a new instance without
    calling __new__ (although in some cases you can get away with calling a
    base class's __new__).

    Recall that you create class instances by calling the class. When the
    class is a new-style class, the following happens when it is called.
    First, the class's __new__ method is called, passing the class itself as
    first argument, followed by any (positional as well as keyword)
    arguments received by the original call. This returns a new instance.
    Then that instance's __init__ method is called to further initialize it.
    (This is all controlled by the __call__ method of the metaclass, by the
    way.) 
        http://www.python.org/2.2.2/descrintro.html#__new__    

Jeff



From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 31 02:10:31 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 10:10:31 +0300
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<406A5892.7030809@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<c4dpro$5vg$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <du765clh4pk.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Josiah" == Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

    Josiah> definition is convenient.  Programming with a language
    Josiah> that is static typed may be a pain in the ass, but it is
    Josiah> damn convenient when you are looking at documentation.
    Josiah> Even though wxWidgets class definitions can

Luckily we can soon add optional type declarations w/ wrappers. It can
be used in generating documentation, even if the actual type checking
is disabled by replacing the 'typecheck' wrapper with a 'null' wrapper
on released code.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Mon Mar  8 21:13:13 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:13:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: a desired python editor
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403081852180.9048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>


Hi,

  Does anyone know of a source code editor for python
that has the following characteristics:

1) Freeware (desired)
2) Runs on Linux (required)
3) Syntax high lighting (required)
4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)  
5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions 
   data elements in the file. (required)

I have been using jcc (Code Crusader) from http://newplanetsoftware.com/
for years (even before it went commercial) for c++ and java code. It has 
all of my required traits for C, C++ and Java...but not yet for python.

Boa has all but item 4...but it has a few other nuisances
on Linux (at least RH-9) that cause me to to look for something
else.
 
Nedit has all but item 5.
 
Thanks,

Jim






From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 20:17:19 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:17:19 -0800
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <rqq8c.41431$Bg.29453@fed1read03>

  "Kenneth McDonald" <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net...
> For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
> and then find out the following information about functions and
> methods defined within it:
>
> 1) Parameter names and order
> 2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
> 3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
> parameter list.


I had thought of writing a mod for this kind of info too, but all I really
needed was what help(<modname>) output.  However, it would me nice to have
this functionality.

>
> Reading documentation about function objects, the only
> relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
> default param values, which is not useful to me.
>
> I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
> I would strongly prefer a simpler way.

You could parse the output of help(<modname>).  That would probably be
easier than parsing the module itself.

> I'd have thought that,
> like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
> would also be stored with function objects.

 As far as I know this info is not strored.





From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 21:40:55 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:40:55 -0800
Subject: Select on Win XP
In-Reply-To: <da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f@posting.google.com>
References: <da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3b2dc$bt7$1@news.service.uci.edu>

[snip description]
> Hoepfully I am doing something wrong on the Win system.
> Any help would be appreciated.
[snip code]

I checked the raw socket code on my machine and didn't have any issues. 
  You should check:
...
def button_cb(button):
     my_sock.sendto(data, (SERVERADDR, SERVERPORT))
...
with a print statement to make sure that is actually getting called.

  - Josiah


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Mar 29 05:51:11 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:51:11 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <BcT9c.8088$1A6.392543@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:37S9c.58035$cx5.39835 at fed1read04...
> >    By the way, did anyone figure out how you give an object
> >    multiple prototypes?
>
> It sucks right now:
>
> Proto = Proto1()
> Proto.add_proto(Proto2)
> obj = Proto()
>
> There is a discussion about this whole area on the Prothon list right now.

perhaps:

Proto = Proto1.clone().__bases__ = (Proto2, )
obj = Proto1.clone()

or

Proto = Proto1.clone().include(Proto2)  # <- might want to save that for
mixins
obj = Proto1.clone()

or not







From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Mar  5 18:40:25 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:40:25 GMT
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
Message-ID: <Jd82c.88859$Wa.84112@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Chad Haynes:

> I have a wxPython application that I want to create an executable from.
>   Using py2exe produces a program that works very well, but the
> appearance is slightly different than when it was run from the command
> line.  The py2exe version is a little more bland.  Here are links to
> some screenshots:

   To get the Windows XP look you have to include a manifest file or
resource.

   Neil




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Mar  1 17:58:11 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 17:58:11 -0500
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<c1vl5n$1nuv0c$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <u7jy4p43g.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <nospam-deets at web.de> writes:

> Use (x)emacs and type 
> 
> M-x comment-region
> 
> Type
> 
> C-u M-x comment-region
> 
> to uncomment. Of course you can bind that to keys. C-c-< and C-c-> will
> dedent/indent the current selection. Very useful.

Since presumably you're using python-mode (from your comment about the
dedent/indent bindings), you may like to know that the commenting
commands are already bound to keys by default.  C-c # to comment,
C-u C-c # to uncomment.

-- David


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar  3 15:29:38 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:29:38 -0800
Subject: input from sdtin or file...
In-Reply-To: <4045a103$0$28147$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <4045a103$0$28147$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c25fco$ghr$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Check the inputfiles module:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-fileinput.html

  - Josiah


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Wed Mar 31 06:44:46 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:44:46 +0200
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB62_1080733480_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124CE2@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>

Sent:
-1919935872,29628181

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From u at g0ertz.de  Fri Mar 19 18:46:21 2004
From: u at g0ertz.de (Ulrich Goertz)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 00:46:21 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 and data_files
Message-ID: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net>

Hello,

I am trying to understand how py2exe 0.5.0 deals with data files. 
My application tries to access certain data files via sys.path[0]
(e.g. the file 'menus.def' which lies in the same path as the
python script (or the .exe which py2exe produces, respectively)
is accessed via os.path.join(sys.path[0],'menus.def').

Now I have the data files which I need in the data_files list given
as an argument to the setup method, and py2exe does copy them to
the dist subdirectory all right. However, sys.path[0] is not the 
path where the program resides, but the path + 'library.zip'.

Is there an elegant way to proceed? Of course, I could remove the
'library.zip' to find the actual path, but that somehow does not 
look like the 'right thing'. I would prefer a solution which works
for the genuine Python script (not packaged by py2exe) as well as 
for the .exe.

Thanks in advance for any comments,

Ulrich


From loic at fejoz.net  Wed Mar 31 03:44:20 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:44:20 +0200
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4e0d2$o4u$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>[John Roth]
>>
>>>I believe the earliest versions of Python did use the single equal
>>>sign for comparisons. I don't know why Guido changed it, but
>>>it might be in order to keep his options open.
>>
>>It was to stop ambiguity.  This was especially acute at an interactive
>>shell, where guessing what
>>
>>
>>>>>x = y
>>
>>intended often guessed wrong <wink> (it's common to wonder whether two
>>things are equal at a shell prompt).  After the change, that became obvious:
>>
>>
>>>>>x = y  # assignment
>>>>>x == y # equal?
>>
>> False
>>
> 
> 
> Despite *all* that...
> 
> The lines
> 
> if a = 3 
>    print 'Yeah baby'
> 
> are still *unambiguous*.... yet the interpreter refuses to understand
> you......
> 
> Theres no reason why a single '=' shouldn't be understood in a
> conditional....
> As for needing a ':' to allow statements after a 'def' or a
> conditional.... python already has the ';' for that... why insist on a
> ':'
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


Why not !
Stop complain about choice !

If you want another syntax, you can imagine yours.
What you need is rather simple :
Create a parser and an Abstract Syntax Tree from the parser. Then you 
can still use python to bytecompile it ( with compiler.pycodegen ).
That way you will be able to use the python library but have your 
favorite syntax with brackets, '=' or ':=' assignement, etc...

Also had a hook on the import statement to automatically byte-compile 
your file when requested and that's all !

I'm playing with that kind of stuff. That is really fun and easy...

Yermat



From no at sp.am  Thu Mar 25 12:33:19 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:33:19 -0600
Subject: Creating Python Modules
In-Reply-To: <mailman.415.1080233828.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.415.1080233828.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <A6KdnTgUh_1_iv7dRVn-gg@comcast.com>

Adam T. Gautier wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I am trying to create a python module for a series of class files that 
> because of their size I have divided into multiple files.
> 
> class Foo --> foo.py
> class Boo --> boo.py

Create an __init__.py file in your module's root directory that calls:
from foo import Foo
from boo import Boo

Then to use your module, a user would do:

from mymodule import Foo, Boo
foo = Foo()
boo = Boo()

or...

import mymodule
foo = mymodule.Foo()
boo = mymodule.Boo()



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 23:59:21 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:59:21 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Yeah, I agree that pygame's docs are really good.  I enjoy bouncing
> around in those when I am working with pygame.  wxPython is just bad
> in that its docs are sprinkled throughout the wxWindows docs and
> there isn't a central place to go when you want to know How To Do
> Something that is not explicitly treated by the wxWindows docs.

The trick with wxPython and wxWindows docs is that the entirety of 
wxWindows is available to wxPython, through (on the most part) identical 
class and function calls.  In those cases when there are differences, 
the differences are noted.

For those who need more documentation, usually, example code is as good 
documentation as you'd find.  For that, there is the wxPython demo.

In general, Robin Dunn is the only person who is maintaining wxPython, 
and I am glad that he's spending his time with wxPython, rather than the 
documentation.

If you are having problems understanding the wxWidgets documentation, 
learning a bit of C (not much, just a bit) will likely go a /long/ way 
towards understanding the calling conventions.

  - Josiah


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Mar 27 13:39:06 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 10:39:06 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403271039.5a351884@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai at 4ax.com>...
> On 26 Mar 2004 20:49:00 -0800, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele
> Simionato) wrote:
> This is a small problem with a simple solution (see my earlier post),
> and one that will retain the advantages of tabs.

Which advantages?


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 10:59:04 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 16:59:04 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

> Perhaps you should read the following

I have read it before. I still disagree with the implication that
Python is weakly typed just much as I did when I first read it.

But you are ignoring my explanation of how Python is strongly typed,
and of the distinction between strong-vs-weak and dynamic-vs-static
typing, and are instead resorting to argument from authority:

> where Guido van Rossum talks about typing in Python. Here he is
> contrasting strongly typed languages with Python.
> 
> "In a strongly typed language, when you change to a different data
> structure, you will likely have to change the argument and return
> types of many methods that just pass these things on. You may also
> have to change the number of arguments, because suddenly you pass the
> information as two or three parts instead of one. In Python, if you
> change the type of something, most likely pieces of code that only
> pass that something around and don't use it directly don't have to
> change at all."

He's actually contrasting _statically_ typed languages with
Python. Unfortunately he is using the word "strongly" where he should
be using "statically".

If you actually _think_ about what he is saying, rather than being
satisfied with finding words which appear to confirm your
misconceptions, then you should be able to see that he is really
talking about _statically_ typed languages.

> It would seem to be clear that what Guido considers to be strong
> typing is not a feature of Python. As the following quote seems to
> indicate.

I wonder how you reach that conclusion ...

> "Weak typing is not really a fair description of what's going on in
> Python. It's really runtime typing because every object is labeled
> with a type."

... he seems to be suggesting that Python is NOT weakly typed ... so
the implication seems to be that it IS strongly typed. What he's
really hinting at is the fact that weak-vs-strong and
static-vs-dynamic are orthogonal axes.

(Hint: "runtime typing" is almost synonymous with "dynamic typing".)

> So there we have it, Python is *NOT* strongly typed unless you know
> more about Python than Guido van Rossum.

What an absurd statement. You are suggesting that Python's type system
somehow depends on the relative magnitudes of two people's knowledge.

I certainly don't know more about Python than Guido does, but I do
appear to know more about type system nomenclature than Guido does :-)

(I don't actually believe that. I believe that Guido used the words he
did because he was aware that a majority of people think that
static=strong and dynamic=weak.)

Argument from authority is remains very unconvincing, even if that
authority is Guido himself.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 09:57:43 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:57:43 -0600
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
In-Reply-To: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <16456.38247.843481.304214@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Remy> - If the technique is generally useful, would there be interest in 
    Remy>   having a full-featured "virtual" file system mock object? I
    Remy>   couldn't find anything similar on Google.

Here's a link:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-June/thread.html

Search for "virtual file system".  It talks about the abstraction necessary
to eventually plug in virtual file systems, not VFS's themselves.

Skip




From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 29 05:16:16 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 10:16:16 GMT
Subject: easy verbose in functions
References: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94BB72A8F4FEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

pascal.parent at free.fr (Pascal) wrote in 
news:e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63 at posting.google.com:

> def myfunction(data, verbose = False):
>    dothis...
>    if verbose: print 'I do this'
>    dothisother
>    if verbose: print 'I do this other'
>    ...
> 
> How can I do to exclude eachtime the `if verbose` statement?
> 

If it offends you that much:

def log_verbose(s):
    print s
def log_dummy(s):
    pass


def myfunction(data, verbose = False):
   if verbose:
       log = log_verbose
   else:
       log = log_dummy
   dothis...
   log('I do this')
   dothisother
   log('I do this other')
   ...

or even pass the log function around as the parameter.

A more general solution might be to use Python's logging facility. That 
gives you the opportunity to classify your log messages by different levels 
(debug, info, warning, error, critical) and also by the section of program 
in a hierarchical arrangement. This gives you the ability to, say, turn on 
debug logging for a class, or a module by editing a config file.


From 7z6fp9202 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  8 12:01:19 2004
From: 7z6fp9202 at sneakemail.com (John Houston)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 09:01:19 -0800
Subject: pymat strange behavior
Message-ID: <103d4f03.0403080901.257ad684@posting.google.com>

Hi, there,

I recently build pymat (python2.3, matlab 6.5) on a Linux PC, 
Everything goes well until I tried to use it in python2.3:

Python 2.3 (#2, Aug 31 2003, 17:27:29) 
[GCC 3.3.1 (Mandrake Linux 9.2 3.3.1-1mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pymat
>>> pymat.__version__
'1.1'
>>> H=pymat.open()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'open'

Anybody can help?
Thanks
John Houston


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 16 22:54:53 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:54:53 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
In-Reply-To: <1A509EE5-77A9-11D8-8AC1-0003934ACDEC@zdome.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEGGJJAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Dietrich Epp]
> Without invoking double-underscore black magic, it is possible to
> choose a, b, and c in Python such that:
>
> a < b
> b < c
> c < a

Yup.

> This could cause sorting functions to malfunction.

In what sense?  The builtin list.sort() doesn't depend on comparisons being
sane, because user-defined comparisons can display arbitrarily goofy
behavior.  All list.sort() promises then is that it won't blow up, and that
the list at the end will contain some permutation of its input state (no
element will be lost or duplicated).  As to which permutation, garbage-in
garbage-out rules if the elements don't enjoy a total ordering.

[example with str < instance of class whose name starts with "t" <
                    unicode < str]

Took you a while, didn't it <wink>?

> Possible kludge fix: Change default_3way_compare() to use "basestring"
> as the typename for both built-in string types.
>
> Possible elegant fix: Any class whose members may either be less than
> or greater than members of a different class, which often share a
> common superclass, use the name of the superclass for comparisons with
> objects of incompatible types.  This parallels the comparison of
> numeric types because they compare as if their type name were empty.

They didn't always.  In the very early days, e.g.,

    3 < [3] < 2L < 3

was true (3 < [3] because "int" < "list", and [3] < 2L because "list" <
"long" -- the same trick you played to pick a class name alphabetically
between "str" and "unicode").  Using an empty string as a numeric type name
was a gross hack to stop that kind of example.

If you'd like to work up a patch, I expect it would be accepted.  In the
mythical Python 3.0, I expect the default mixed-type comparison rule will be
to return False if the relation is "==", True if "!=", and to raise
TypeError otherwise.




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 08:27:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:27:00 -0500
Subject: translating "setattr" to C++
In-Reply-To: <87oeqtkruw.fsf@subopt.austin.rr.com>
References: <87oeqtkruw.fsf@subopt.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <yICdnRDosf24aMfdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Eric wrote:

> Slightly off topic, i know, but here goes:
> 
> I'm trying to xlate a module of mine to C++. Only problem is, it makes
> heavy use of "setattr". Anyone know a straightforward way to do
> "setattr" in C++ ?

Thinking about what setattr() does, and about how C++ works, I suspect
there is no straightforward way.  There _might_ be some existing library 
for introspection that can do something resembling what you want.

Think about it: setattr() uses the names of arbitrary (possibly 
non-existing, but of course you can't solve that in C++ at all) 
attributes that are contained in strings.  That means the resolution is 
done at run-time.  In C++, on the other hand, all the names pretty much 
vanish at compile-time, so unless you prepare mappings of some kind 
ahead of time, or have a package which can read dynamically from header 
files or something, you're plain screwed.  AFAICS.

-Peter


From tuure at laurinolli.net  Sat Mar 20 14:32:41 2004
From: tuure at laurinolli.net (Tuure Laurinolli)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:32:41 +0200
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
In-Reply-To: <405c772e$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
References: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>
	<405c772e$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <c3i635$lg5$1@plaza.suomi.net>

John Burton wrote:
> Dan Boitnott wrote:
>  > John Burton wrote:
>  > 
> Well it does - thanks for that - except that setting the set uid bit on
> the script doesn't seem to actually work. This is on gentoo linux.

Indeed it doesn't. You have to use a wrapper of some sort. Google should 
help you on finding one.


From merkosh at hadiko.de  Wed Mar 10 14:53:41 2004
From: merkosh at hadiko.de (Uwe Mayer)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:53:41 +0100
Subject: index out of range with slice object
Message-ID: <c2nro6$ef7$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

a class of mine should support the list interface and implements the __len__
and __getitem__ methods.

Now when I ask for an unbounded slice:

>>> len( myObj[:] )

my __getitem__(self, y) method gets called with 

    y = slice(0, 2147483647, None)

Now step size is ok, but where does that incredibly large stop index come
from? Also I expected the start index rather to be None than zero.
The __len__(self) method returns the correct length, which is 728.

Has anybody encountered something like that bevore? Is that natural or am I
doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance
Uwe


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 01:56:30 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:56:30 -0800
Subject: creating lists question?
In-Reply-To: <SIYYAls/KDFC089yn@the-wire.com>
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3qu0d$rfl$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<SIYYAls/KDFC089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <c438os$fug$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>for name in list1:
>>    locals()[name] = []
>>
> Modifying locals() is not entirely like creating a variable:
> 

It all depends on your scope:
 >>> locals()['b'] = 'y'
 >>> b
'y'

But why does this work?
 >>> locals() is globals()
True

Ahh.  Modifying locals() is, in general, not supported.  In that case, 
you can always modify globals...

 >>> def f(x):
...     globals()['b'] = x
...     if x == 'x':
...             print b
...     print
...
 >>> f('y')

 >>> f('x')
x


In this case, modifying the globals() dict is just like saying:
global b
b = x

But you can do it with a string literal, and without using exec().

  - Josiah


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Mar  3 21:50:00 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:50:00 -0600
Subject: Numeric array of objects
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f@posting.google.com>
	(beliavsky@aol.com's message of "3 Mar 2004 15:08:38 -0800")
References: <3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2n06xz5pj.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


 > How do you create a Numeric array of n instances of class 'xy', where
 > for example xy is defined as follows:

from Numeric import PyObject, array

class xy:
    def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

a = array([xy() for i in range(10)], typecode=PyObject)

JDH



From bscholln at mac.com  Tue Mar  9 19:49:18 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:49:18 GMT
Subject: optparse variable parsing?
References: <20040308232639.GB11572@unisrv.net> <404DD3C0.8050207@python.org>
	<mailman.175.1078843363.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <090320041949184324%bscholln@mac.com>

In article <mailman.175.1078843363.19534.python-list at python.org>, CJ
Kucera <python at apocalyptech.com> wrote:

>> > I would suggest that you should have two different options here, a
> > simple switch and an option which expects/requires an argument.
> > That's easier to document as well.
> 
> Yeah, that's what I've been doing, it's just a bit tight because
> right now the program already accepts fourteen options, and finding
> options that make sense while keeping them down to one-letter
> arguments (don't like having to have more than one letter per arg)
> can get a bit challenging.  :)
> 
> Well, thanks for the confirmation!

Sorry for butting in here....

But 14 options?  Is there not a way you can simplify this instead?

Would this program be better suited being split into 2 seperate
programs?  Or rethinking the command line options?

Of course, I have no details on the program, how it's used, and
what you are sending to it....

But if some of the data is *RARELY changed*, why not make a INI file,
and load the data from configparser?

For example:

> For example, let's say that I'm writing a util to add a user to some
> system.  By default, the program would assign a random password:

Items that might not change:

1) The root Home directory
2) Password Generation method
3) Default Permissions
?????

I've run out of ideas....

But if the command line is running low on space, turn the idea 90
degrees, and declare it imaginary....

         - Benjamin


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Sat Mar 27 21:14:29 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 18:14:29 -0800
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0403271814.5d789e9e@posting.google.com>

Hi Fred,
If there are particular C/C++ packages of algorithms that you use then
you might try searching for the package name +python on the web. You
might find someone who has already turned the library into aPython
module.

There are several Scientific libraries for Python that have good
graphing capabilities as well as speed advantages for certain
operations. - Try installing the Enthought Python distribution for
windows at: http://www.enthought.com/python/

Another good page is ScriptEDA:
http://www-cad.eecs.berkeley.edu/~pinhong/scriptEDA/ - I was using the
gate-level verilog parser a month ago.

On Scripting language choice, I find TCL to be in many EDA tools, but
its datastructures and syntax  make it a language I use when I have
to, rather than a language of choice.

Perl IS used a lot in EDA but I like to think of it as being dangerous
in a lot of hands as great Engineers start scripting larger and larger
applications in Perl and usually end up with something that is hard to
maintain and hard to write. Perl does have its sweet spot - I do like
the `perl -p -i -e` mewthod of making sed like alterations to files
in-place, butthe languages support for subroutine arguments - compared
to Pythons; and the need to compute and pass around references to
lists and hashes for simple nested datastructures - things like that
shout small programs only to me.

Python is my language of choice for a large amount of programming in
the EDA field (when given the choince :-).

Perl has a large library, Python has a large library - what you need
to do is do some web searches for libraries in your field to see which
is more appropriate -

When I have to write an algorithm from scratch then I do it in Python.
It does get out of the way and allow me to concentrate on the
algorithm most of the time. (Although I wish it had constrained random
generation of integers like Vera or Specman :-).

I hope I've helped,  Paddy.


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 22:30:28 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:30:28 +1200
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403220021.db39215@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403220021.db39215@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3tjon$2c6trb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> So I'm currently just searching for
> the longest word - KirbBase then returns the full *text* of each song
> containing that word... and I'm just checking each song to see if it
> has the other words :-)

If you need to do a lot of searches of this kind, you might
find it worthwhile to build an index indicating which songs
each word occurs in.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Mar 19 04:03:35 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:03:35 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
In-Reply-To: <7iish1bmv5.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7iish1bmv5.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <c3ecv0$mbi$1@swifty.westend.com>

Isaac To schrieb:
>     Peter> I didn't talk about different programs but different machines
>     Peter> (architecture).  Python Standard Library (Comparison) has this
> 
>     Peter> Implementation note: Objects of different types except numbers
>     Peter> are ordered by their type names;
> 
> As you said, it is "implementation note".  Also, about C your argument is
> that different platforms can have different encoding in their characters,
> and thus different ordering.  Since type names are expressed in characters,
> it follows directly that names of types in Python also has such dependency.

You are right. I give up :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 09:13:28 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:13:28 +0100
Subject: function arguments passed by reference
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1078354935.772.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.8.1078344338.736.python-list@python.org>	<104cj8vkrqb6i20@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.3.1078354935.772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40473920$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Marcello Pietrobon wrote:
> John Roth wrote:
> 
>> "Marcello Pietrobon" <teiffel at attglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.8.1078344338.736.python-list at python.org...
>>  
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> My background is C++
>>>
>>> I would like to know for sure if it is possible to pass a value by
>>> reference to a function AND having it changed by the function itself
>>>
>>>
>>> def changeValue( text ):
>>>    text = 'c'
>>>    print text
>>>    return
>>>
>>> >>> txt = 'a'
>>> >>>changeValue( txt )
>>> 'c'
>>> >>>print txt
>>> 'a'
>>>
>>> Question 1)
>>> I guess that in Python ( differently than in C++)  somehow txt is passed
>>> by reference even if its value is not changed.
>>> Is this true ?
>>>
>>> Question 2)
>>> How can I define a function that changes the value of txt ( without
>>> having to return the changed value ) ?
>>>
>>> Question 3)
>>> Is there some documentation talking extensively about this ?
>>>   
>>
>>
>> The key concept is that everything is an object, and all objects
>> are passed by reference in the sense that what's bound to the
>> funtion's parameters is the objects that were passed in.
>>
>> However, you cannot affect the bindings in the calling environment.
>> Regardless of what you do (unless you do some deep magic with
>> the invocation stack) nothing is going to affect the bindings in the
>> caller.
>>
>> So you can rebind anything you want to the parameters within
>> the function, and it will have no effect on the calling environment.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you mutate a mutable object that was passed
>> as a parameter, that change will be visible after you return.
>>
>> For  example:
>>
>> def foo(bar):
>>    bar = "shazoom"
>>
>> a = "shazam"
>> foo(a)
>>
>> The result is that a is still "shazam."
>>
>> However, if you do this:
>>
>> def foo(bar):
>>    bar.append("shazoom")
>>
>> a = ["shazam"]
>> foo(a)
>>
>> the result is:
>>
>> ["shazam", "shazoom"]
>>
>> HTH
>> John Roth
>>
>> "shazoom" ::= ["strength", "health", "aptitude", "zeal", "ox, power of",
>> "ox, power of another", "money"]
>>
>> whatever the value you passed in remains.
>>  
>>
> 
> Thank you for the answers,
> 
> difficult to get used to these concepts after coming from C++ !
> But I am starting to understand:
> the main difference between Python and C++ is that I need to keep in 
> mind what is mutable and what is not mutable in Python
You could also return tupples like

 >>> def foo(a,b):
...   a+=2
...   b+=3
...   return a,b
...
 >>> a=1
 >>> b=2
 >>> a,b=foo(a,b)

 >>> a
3
 >>> b
5

Regards,
Josef



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Mar  4 10:55:07 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:55:07 +0000
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
References: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <i4ke40tbiil4bne66g1rejc82t7olhn44p@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:23:52 +0100, Boogie El Aceitoso
<frr149 at telefonica.net> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>How can I catch a generic exception (without knowing a priori what exception
>it will be)?
>

First answer: don't try to do it, you'll get bitten by it.

>For example, something like this
>try:
>   generateSomeException()
>except e:
>  print e
>

Second answer: The Exception class is the base class of all exception
classes. So, the following should work:

try:
    <code goes here>
except Exception, e:
    print e


Notice that you'll catch *every* exception, even a KeyboardInterrupt
(or whatever it's called) - are you sure that's what you want?

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From curzio.basso at unibas.ch  Fri Mar 12 10:49:10 2004
From: curzio.basso at unibas.ch (Curzio Basso)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:49:10 +0100
Subject: python latex class and math environment
Message-ID: <4051dbf6$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>

Hi all,

has anyone experienced problems using the howto documentclass provided 
by python, while using the math environment?

In things like $x_i$ the 'i' has normal dimensions and position...

thanks


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Fri Mar 26 03:10:35 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:10:35 +0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<36wekrh894v.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <tro760dm054a5u6il0mk2sicuerqkeccd2@4ax.com>

On 25 Mar 2004 12:21:36 +0100, Matthias <no at spam.pls> wrote:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> 
> > "After", is far too late, in my opinion. It's a bit like suggesting to
> > a static-typing-for-safety fan, that he should only run his program
> > through the compiler _after_ he has finished developing. 
> 
> I think this method was advertised as the "cleanroom approach".
> Google finds some references.

The clean room approach was slihtly different although heading in
that direction. It relied on rigorous review, inspection and
testing at every stage of the process. (sound familiar?)

It was popular in the early/mid eighties and here are a few
references:

Wicked problems, Righteous Solutions; P DeGrace & L Hulet Stahl
- many methodolofgies including a section on clean room.

Cleanroom approach to REliable Software Devt; Dyer & MIlls
Proceedings Validation Methods Research for Fault Tolerant
Avionics....; Research Triangele Institiute, 1981

Cleanroom Software Devt, An Emopirical Investigation; 
Selby, Basili, Baker, 1987
IEEE Transactions on Software Engineering, 
VolSE-13,#9, Sept 1987

HTH,

Alan G.

PS. Keeping programmers away from compilers is not that old a
prctice, I was working on a VAX project in 1989 that only allowed
us one compile each per day, with a full compile overnight (which
took 6 hours)

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Mon Mar 29 07:45:11 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 22:35:11 +0950
Subject: mxDateTime function DateFromString gives wrong year
References: <c3s4r2$2bl6t3$1@uni-berlin.de>
	<tan760la6aejk7ahtus5csfg2rc2pkjif7@4ax.com>
	<c412g7$2d20ui$1@uni-berlin.de> <Xns94B85C8895292rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c48q5v$2f0ren$1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc6g7o6.7r2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:27:27 +0200, Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> [parsing the string "Nov 2003"]
>
> the day isn't given and I don't need it in the application.

Then you don't want a date; instead you want some other object only
containing a month and year.  DateFromString parses a date from a
string, not a month-and-year from a string.

-- 
 \          "About four years ago, I was -- no, it was yesterday."  -- |
  `\                                                     Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 17:08:31 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:08:31 -0800
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-10BBB3.14083119032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578 at posting.google.com>,
 hugh at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald) wrote:

> I'm calling a command from within a python script and I need to be
> able to both catch the output (stdout and stderr) from it and also
> have the PID (so that I can kill it)
> 
> I can do one or other of these, but I can't find any way to do them
> both at the same time.
> 
> So far, I've got the following options:
> 
> 
> To get the output from the command:
> 
> >>> fdin, fdout, fderr = os.popen3(command)

You're close there.  You're creating a class instance
that has the pid, but os.popen3 hides it from you.
See popen3.py in the library for details.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Mon Mar  8 10:38:15 2004
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 07:38:15 -0800
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
	<1qj1c.29893$qo.16145@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0403080738.12a457bd@posting.google.com>

Paul,

do you have a jython compatible pyparsing version?.
I tried to modifiy pyparsing for jython-2.2a0 without
success (jython still doesnt support newstyle classes)

Regards

Carl


"Paul McGuire" <bogus at bogus.net> wrote in message news:<1qj1c.29893$qo.16145 at fe1.texas.rr.com>...
> 
> pyparsing also comes with an expression parser and evaluator in its
> examples.  With some creative merging of the two, I think you could in
> fairly short order have a config parser that would handle your Na = K+2 and
> res_file = "$result_dir..." config values.
> 
> The pyparsing home page is at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.
> 
> HTH,
> -- Paul


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Mar 20 04:27:42 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 01:27:42 -0800
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
	<c3g1c0$uim$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403200127.870901d@posting.google.com>

Daniel Yoo <dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote in message news:<c3g1c0$uim$1 at agate.berkeley.edu>...
> 
> Someone should make a FAQ out of this.  *grin*

Just to know, how does it work? If I write a FAQ entry, who is in
charge
of putting it in the official FAQ? (I don't have the time to write
down
this specific FAQ now, but I may be willing to write down a FAQ in the
future).

> This keeps popping up every so often on comp.lang.python.  Here's a
> link to one of the really heated threads about this:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=4bca1bec20119375&rnum=6
> 

Here is a non-trollish thread on the subject, which may also
be interesting if you know some Lisp/Scheme:

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=tyfsmgtbewl.fsf%40lxplus030.cern.ch&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Blambda%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

HTH,

            Michele Simionato


From bob at greschke.com  Wed Mar 10 18:09:16 2004
From: bob at greschke.com (Bob Greschke)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 15:09:16 -0800
Subject: tkinter test field, scrolling, threads
References: <403fc9bc_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
	<c1uubt$vlh$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <2f841a16.0403101509.23d4d959@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:<c1uubt$vlh$1 at news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>...
> Bob Greschke wrote:
> > I have a program where the user pushes a button, a "starting" message is
> > .inserted to a text field with an associated scroll bar, a thread is started
> > that inserts a "working..." message on to the end of the text field until
> > stopped, or until the loop finishes.  The loop sleeps for about 3 seconds
> > every time through (I'm just prototyping at this point).  The mainloop just
> > waits for the user to hit the same button again which will set a flag and
> > cause the thread to terminate early, otherwise it doesn't have anything to
> > do.  update()'s and update_idle_tasks() get called anytime anything is
> > written to the text field.  Everything works fine until the text field fills
> > up then the program just freezes with no errors on the console window.  If I
> > change the starting of a thread to a regular function call then everything
> > works fine.
> > 
> > What is going wrong?
> 
> If you do not post any code, it will be difficult for anyone to help you. 
> Knowing your Python and tcl/tk versions and your platform will help too.
> 
> I know that there are some issues regarding Tkinter and threads, but the 
> following code works:
> 
> --text+threads.py------------------
> from Tkinter import *
> import time, threading
> 
> root = Tk()
> t = Text(root, width=8, height=4)
> t.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH)
> vs = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL, command=t.yview)
> vs.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
> t.configure(yscrollcommand=vs.set)
> root.update()
> 
> def thLoop():
>    i = 0
>    while 1:
>      t.insert(END, 'spam %s\n' % i)
>      i += 1
>      time.sleep(1)
> 
> th = threading.Thread(target=thLoop)
> th.setDaemon(1)
> th.start()
> 
> root.mainloop()
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Tested with Python 2.1.1, tcl/tk 8.3.2 on Linux Mandrake 8.0

Sorry...this is WinXP, Python 2.3.3

I'm still messing with this.  Your program seems to work fine.  No
matter how I mess with it I can't get it to fail, but even if I strip
a lot out of mine it keeps behaving badly.  But it is even wierder. 
If I "print" any ol' thing to the IDLE console window from a thread,
and keep doing it until the console window fills up to the point where
it should start to scroll, everything IDLE crashes and freezes.  The
exact same code works fine on RH9 Python 2.2.2, and Solaris 8 Python
2.1.1.  For now I've just turned off the scroll bars when in Windows. 
I'd post code, but the program is now pretty big and I'm not sure what
to keep or throw out.

Thanks!


From mederis at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 06:37:36 2004
From: mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 03:37:36 -0800
Subject: py2exe odbc:cannot import dbi module
References: <f00811ba.0403020804.27a9b1dc@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1078254551.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f00811ba.0403040337.31c2a2b2@posting.google.com>

Great, it works, thanks Thomas!

But why did you say that odbc32.dll shouldn't be distributed? Because
our distribution should only contain python specific files?
If that's the reason, then I should probably take out MFC42.dll too,
right? Well, I'll just take them out and test... I guess I should
really familiarize myself with distutils, so I understand more about
all this!

-Marc

----------------------------------------------
Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.49.1078254551.12614.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> It seems you have to first explicitely import the dbi module before the
> odbc module can be imported.
> 
> """
> import dbi, odbc
> """
> 
> py2exe doesn't know that dbi.dll is a python extension - it is only
> found as binary dependency.  And you should not (must not?) distribute
> odbc32.dll, which is also copied to the dist folder.
> 
> In py2exe 0.5, you *should* be able to specify
>    dll_exludes = ["odbc32.dll"]
> but this doesn't seem to work.
> 
> Thomas


From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 10:51:15 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:51:15 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4062FFF3.3030406@zope.com>

John Roth wrote:
> If you can make a contribution to a good syntax for
> a code block, I for one would welcome it.
> 
> Just to give you a start: Ruby puts a single code block
> at the end of the parameter list where it's quite obvious
> what it is and where it does not interrupt the flow of reading
> the method call. In python, I'd like to be able to put code
> blocks wherever I can currently put a function / method
> object.
> 
> For example:
> 
> result = map(lambda: ..., list1, list2, list3)
> 
> is readable - barely.
> 
> result = map(def (x, y, z):
>                       something
>                       something else
>                       return
>                   list1, list2, list3)
> 
> becomes much less readable. This is the problem that
> needs to be solved to make code blocks fly.

That's one of the things I'm trying to achieve, too.  Using this syntax, 
I would write it this way:

result = map(def(x, y, z), list1, list2, list3):
     something
     something else
     return x

Shane



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Mar 17 20:53:16 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:53:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3avec$j1d$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:

>> Jacek Generowicz <jacek at lxplus057.cern.ch> wrote:

>> which implies "weak typing" means there's the possibility of treating
>> a piece of data as the wrong type.

> Yes, consider

>    "3" + 3

> In languages that do not consider the above to be an error, you will
> probably get "33" or 6 as the result. Whether one of those pieces of
> data is treated as the wrong type or not, depends on your intentions.

I was unclear.  By treating a piece of data as the wrong type I meant
interpreting the actual bits as they weren't intended.  For example,
somehow being able to get the int value 13107 as a result of "3" + 3
because of wrongly interpreting the adjacent ascii char values as an
int ("3" + 3 => "33" => 255*51 + 51 => 13107).  Such a thing would not
be possible in a strongly typed language, by the definition I was
using.  But you're right--since this is really a discussion about
terminology, it's really not all that interesting :)


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 17:20:09 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 14:20:09 -0800
Subject: Internationalisation (i8n) of messages
Message-ID: <30260531.0403311420.433caf36@posting.google.com>

I've just externalised the messages in my program and was thinking
about internationalisation.

I could probably translate my messages to French and German, and a
friend could do Spanish. I was also thinking of date formats - as a
Brit, I can't get used to the awful American MM/DD/YY format ;o) I
don't think I'll be needing currency or decimal (. or ,) info.

I was basically thinking of doing something like:

import locale
self.locale_array = locale.getlocale()
self.language = self.locale_array[0]

if self.language == "en_GB":
  self.dateformat = "DD/MM/YYYY"
elif self.language == "de_DE":
  self.dateformat = "DD-MM-YYYY"
else:
  self.dateformat = "MM/DD/YY"

So if getlocale returns None, None (like on my Sparc) then it defaults
to US English, otherwise it does UK English or German.

The problem is that the languages I've come across seem to differ
widely between Solaris/py2.3.2, Linux/py2.2.2 and Windows/py2.3.3 (all
I've tested), I was thinking of doing a case-insensitive grep, but
that seems hacky.

The Python 2.3 locale documentation seems crappy, just a bit of info
about POSIX locale.

Any ideas of how I can do this or better documentation URLs? I'm using
wxPython for my GUI, in case that provides some i8n support....?


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 19:02:38 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:02:38 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
In-Reply-To: <mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3g1sm$ilt$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> PS If you liked these regular expressions and would like to buy more,
> visit e-bay where I'm selling a RE that matches multiples of 3 base 10.

An exercise given by an undergraduate professor for a theory of 
computation course (my friend was the TA) was as follows...

Given a binary string ab that is the alternation of elements of binary 
string a and binary string b, that is (in set notation)...
a = {a1, a2, a3,...,an}
b = {b1, b2, b3,...,bn}
ab = {a1, b1, a2, b2,..., an, bn}

Create a regular expression to determine if string a (taken as a binary 
integer) is exactly 3 times string b (also taken as a binary integer).


Strangely enough, it is actually possible.  I'll leave it as an exercise 
to the reader.

  - Josiah


From sc0rp at hot.pl  Wed Mar 24 02:36:41 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:36:41 +0100
Subject: how to detect connection closed by server?
References: <004401c41156$18c17dd0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<40611FB7.19737291@hot.pl>
	<00ba01c41166$be5319b0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <40613A89.846B0592@hot.pl>


Joe Wong wrote:
>   If the server never send some reply back to the client, it is not possible
> for the client to determine if the server had actually received the data (
> e.g., server called accept() but not calling recv() to read data from
> client, then close() the client socket right away ). Am I right?

Yes.  You cannot tell how much of incoming data server read before
calling close(). Whether server sent some reply or not is irrelevant. 
There is nothing that prevents server from accepting conncection,
sending some reply and closing conn without bothering to read incoming
data at all or after reading only part of it.

> If this is the case, I can't really rely on the socket function in the
> client program to tell if the server has read the data..

If server deliberately decides to not read data till EOF or for example
server app is killed before it can read all data, the only notification
you will get on client, will be that connection has been closed from the
other end.

Best regards,
Jacek.




From biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca  Fri Mar 12 16:59:29 2004
From: biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca (biner)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 13:59:29 -0800
Subject: looping over a class attribute
Message-ID: <b82e5469.0403121359.f099aa8@posting.google.com>

Hello,
  I would like to be able to make a loop over a given class
attributes. For example, with the following class definition :

>>> class x:
...     val1=1
...     val2=2
... 
>>> print x.val1
1
>>> print x.val2
2

I would like to be able to make a loop like this 
>>> dir(x)
['__doc__', '__module__', 'val1', 'val2']
>>> for i in dir(x) : print x.i

and get an output like typing

print x.__doc__
print x__module__
print x.var1
print x.var2

instead of 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
AttributeError: class x has no attribute 'i'

Is there a way to do this? Thanks in advance from a clueless newbie to
the wonderful world of Python and OO programming.

Sebastien.
biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca


From goodger at python.org  Wed Mar 31 09:22:42 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:22:42 -0500
Subject: A Week at PyCon DC 2004
Message-ID: <406AD432.5020900@python.org>

This was my first time attending a Python conference, and
coaching a sprint (Docutils).

I kept an account of my week at PyCon DC 2004. Enjoy!

http://starship.python.net/~goodger/pycon_dc_2004/

-- 
David Goodger                               http://python.net/~goodger
For hire: http://python.net/~goodger/cv



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sun Mar 28 19:40:45 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:40:45 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c47qli$2e3dp5$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hgK9c.5950$I61.5445@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

William Park wrote:
> Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:
>> They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one
>> would be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people using spaces
>> if they like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able to use tabs if I
>> like. I can't see how it should make any difference to Python which
>> you use so why not allow for personal preference?
>> 
>> >I'll just mention that there are ***very good***, that is
>> >***extremely good*** reasons why the Python standard is to use spaces
>> >for indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be removed in
>> >3.0.
> 
> This space-vs-tab war is just insane.  I wish Prothon/Python would use
> block terminator, if only to kill this silly trollings.


Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
next line" wars.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From Cary_Coulter at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 21:35:34 2004
From: Cary_Coulter at hotmail.com (Cary Coulter)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:35:34 -0600
Subject: UNC paths in file object open
References: <4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <40527392_4@127.0.0.1>

works like a champ.

using
        '//server/share'
        '\\\\server\share'
        r'\\server\share'

C:\Documents and Settings\cary>python
ActivePython 2.3.2 Build 231 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.3.2 (#49, Nov  6 2003, 10:18:20) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> os.listdir('//pollux/hdc1')
['public', 'archive', 'store']
>>> os.listdir('\\\\pollux\\hdc1')
['public', 'archive', 'store']
>>> os.listdir(r'\\pollux\hdc1')
['public', 'archive', 'store']
>>>


BTW, thanks.  I hadn't thought of using UNCs




"Graham" <gsmith at oxfam.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944 at reading.news.pipex.net...
> I ma trying to open a file on a network share
>
> ie \\servername\share\folder\file
>
> afile = open( \\server\share\folder\file, "r" )
>
> have also tried
> afile = open( //server/share/folder/file, "r" ) # as per the Python
cookbook
> advice on page 113 namely " use / regardless of the proclivities of the
> underlying operating system".
>
> Neither work.
>
> I am running python on XP and accessing win 2000 share.
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Graham Smith
>
> PeopleSoft Technical Team Leader
> OXFAM GB
> +44 (1865) 313255
> gsmith at oxfam.org.uk
>
>
>




From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Wed Mar 24 17:11:11 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:11:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<jKKdnVcj5pGpEcLdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
	<du7isgw83n5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c3t11s$619$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:

> Some lobbying is needed, of course. Getting something like IBM or
> Novell (well, Novell is probably stuck w/ Mono... IronPython, anyone?)
> officially endorsing and sponsoring Python would be oh-so-cool.

Oh, dear...

I think the best way of lobbying for Python adoption is to write good
software with Python.

I started writing programs in Python when I discovered famous APS (NTLM
Authorization Proxy Server, written by Mr. Rozmanov) -- a clever piece
of code, that performs some nasty trick in corporate networks, where
ladmins use NTLM Authorization on web proxies, and enables one to use
any webbrowser, not only MSIE (Mozilla Team *plans* to incorporate NTLM
Authorization in future). In my >15 years of professional programming
such thing happened only this one time.

I'll just try to write good and usable software.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From sean_berry at cox.net  Sat Mar 27 17:58:35 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:58:35 -0800
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
	<3d06fae9.0403271139.701d1a5e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tGn9c.49546$Bg.23681@fed1read03>

Thanks you all for the info.  That is exacly what I was looking for.


"jmdeschamps" <jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca> wrote in message
news:3d06fae9.0403271139.701d1a5e at posting.google.com...
> "sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:<SB49c.47641$Bg.20541 at fed1read03>...
> > Is there a good module for sending out email?
> >
> > For a website that I am working on, I am writing a program that finds
out
> > which presenters have not yet confirmed their scheduled date and sends
them
> > an email to confirm.
> >
> > Does python have any modules for use with mail programs like sendmail,
or
> > should I just run everything with os.system and os.popen?
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> ... and using imaplib, you could *listen* to an email account for
> confirmations and thus, know if the confirm info as reached the
> presenters brain !-)
>
> jean-marc
> Spring is in the air




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Mar 16 12:40:07 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:40:07 +0100
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<4056c9c5$0$4143$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<5eb8fb88.0403160809.177eeb8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40573c0f$0$8456$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

rick_muller at yahoo.com (Rick Muller) wrote:

>I'm a long-time fan of VPython, but I didn't think it provided
>widgets. Can I use some widget set to make buttons to control
>applications?

Look in the demos directory. A two-button mouse would be handy.

Anton



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Mar 12 16:03:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:03:03 -0000
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2t43d$4od$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <10549c7cnurtdf@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c2t43d$4od$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
Bart Nessux  <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Kirk Strauser wrote:
>> 1) Why do you ever use the root password under OS X?  There's really nothing
>>    that you can't do using 'sudo'.  I literally *never* log in as root on an
>>    OS X machine.
>> 
>> 2) Out of curiosity, why are your users disabling ssh?  If they're
>smart enough
>>    to do that, aren't they smart enough to disable your script?
>> 
>> 3) Why would you store the unencrypted root password?  The 'chpass -a'
>>    command lets (actually, requires) you to specify an encrypted password.
>>    Store that in your script if you must.
>> 
>> 4) Get a 2x4, paint it black and write the word "LART" on it in blood red,
>>    and tell your users to quick changing stuff or you'll have to schedule
>>    them for "an adjustment".  Follow through once or twice if necessary.
>
>1. To administer the machine.
>2. All they have to do is click a check-box to disable ssh in OSX.
>3. I didn't know about chpass.
>4. We're informal. Admins are noramlly only called when the user has 
>*really* messed something up. We put out their fires. When we try to 
>stop them from creating fires, we become over-bearing and controlling... 
>  classic admin/user relationship.
>

I'm finally getting the picture.  You're talking about putting this
script on all two hundred desktops, aren't you?  Yes, I agree with
the others whose follow-ups have claimed this is the near-equivalent
of writing root's password on a poster in the machine room.

In regard to 2., "All they have to do is click a [different] check-
box to disable" *all* inbound connections; or ...  Well, you know
your users better than I do.  You certainly can stuff entries in
hosts' crontabs without leaving a record of the root password, though.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From k.robert at gmx.de  Sat Mar 20 04:48:14 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 01:48:14 -0800
Subject: Python doesn't know class of function ? : class C:def f():pass;
	l=[f]; print C.l[0].im_class
References: <19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0@posting.google.com>
	<105m7thjapekofd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <19804fd8.0403200148.7a8ee261@posting.google.com>

Hello, its a problem which arised within my proprietary context test
system (i don't like the awkward stiff unittest). e.g.:

    def f():
        "test dummy"
        print dscore.cfg.url_categories
    runTests(f)
    class TG(TestGroup):
        contexts = [CtxRegistry]
        def testA(self):
            print "A"
        def testB(self):
            print "B"
        tests=[testA,testB,f]
    runTests( TG, [CtxGerman,CtxLocalCache] )

   
the TG member "tests=[testA,testB,f]"   defines (additional) embedded
tests in TG, and optionally also forces the execution order of
(autocollected) textXXXX methods of the own class. I want to script
such tests short and pythonic, thus mix functions, instance method,
unbound methods, static methods, groups, ... the test comiler is
supposed to smartly identifying everything and do whats needed on the
fly.

So, when iterating the list in my test compiler, i need to know if the
function is a simple function from outside or an own method or a
method of other class/instance or whatever in order to possibly
instantiate the right classes on the fly an call the right method,
etc. The are also many other reasons why it is interesting to know the
class of such method-functions.

What I do now is to check each thing in the list if it possibly
matches a method of the own class by comparing against
getattr&method.im_func==thing. Not very elegant.
And if the method-function is coming similarly but indirectly from
another class(es list) i have no chance at all to detect the class...

I think when python compiles the TG class, python should know that the
testA thing is in class TG namespace (and set something like im_class)
?
Strange that below example X.g yields an <unbound method>, but inside
namesspace (tests list) its a mere <function> with no indication of
class(es namespace). could a class indicator not be set similar like
func_globals !?

I think this is somewhat broken design in python classes in order to
optimize compilation speed or so. I think they did that 'economical
implementation' because of the same reason that causes the following
not to work:

>>> class YYY:
... 	print YYY
... 	
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 2, in YYY
NameError: name 'YYY' is not defined

I remember i missed this capability often too. 

Is there a true reason not to know the class thing while its namespace
is set up?

I suppose it would be possible for the compiler to do a simple setting
of the empty YYY class object to the outside global namespace before
compiling the interior and maybe set also a local reflexive __class__
or so to the class namespace locals(). (garbage collection
inefficient?afraid of exceptions?its the same as with modules i think)
Thus it would be at least possible to ...

        tests=[TG.testA,TG.testB,f]

And also compiling an im_class for unbound methods during class
compiliation would also be no problem.
I think that would be more consistent than seeking for functions in in
the locals() at the end of class definition in order to make them
<unbound methods> later - and forget my lovely tests=[...] ... ?

Robert

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<105m7thjapekofd at news.supernews.com>...
> "Robert" <k.robert at gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0 at posting.google.com...
> > Python doesn't know the class of a method when container not direct
> > class attribute:
> >
> > >>> class X:
> > ... def f():pass
> > ... g=f
> > ... l=[f]
> > ...
> > >>> X.g
>  <unbound method X.f>
> > >>> X.l[0]
>  <function f at 0x01A9E1F0>
> > >>> X.l[0].im_class
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'im_class'
> > >>>
> >
> >
> > why is l[0] a <function>. Any possibility to find the class of this
> > beast dynamically?
> 
> As Terry said, this is not possible because of the highly
> dynamic nature of Python.
> 
> If you'd tell us a bit about what you're trying to accomplish
> by relating functions to the class where they're defined, we
> might be able to suggest some other ways of approaching
> the problem.
> 
> John Roth
> >
> > Robert


From theller at python.net  Fri Mar 19 17:50:26 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:50:26 +0100
Subject: translating "setattr" to C++
References: <87oeqtkruw.fsf@subopt.austin.rr.com>
	<ad052e5c.0403191417.7db2c2d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wu5gcuz1.fsf@python.net>

danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) writes:

> Eric <eric at lentil.com> wrote in message news:<87oeqtkruw.fsf at subopt.austin.rr.com>...
>> Slightly off topic, i know, but here goes:
>> 
>> I'm trying to xlate a module of mine to C++. Only problem is, it makes
>> heavy use of "setattr". Anyone know a straightforward way to do
>> "setattr" in C++ ?
>
> No, but there's a workaround.
>
> Instead of referring to the fields of an object as, for example, x.foo
> and x.bar, store your object's data in a hash table with "foo" and
> "bar" as keys.

You could even store the hash table as a __dict__ instance variable in
your C++ object.  And use a PyDict_Object instead of the has table.

;-)

Thomas




From kschnee at xepher.net  Tue Mar 23 17:47:59 2004
From: kschnee at xepher.net (kschnee at xepher.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:47:59 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: "Need Help Using py2exe" -- Update
Message-ID: <3171.63.184.64.201.1080082079.squirrel@xepher.net>

Thanks for the tutorial reference, but as was pointed out, the tutorial
doesn't work! It mentions the "missing modules" error I'm getting, but its
solution doesn't work. I did:

python setup.py py2exe --includes AppKit,Foundation,dotblas,objc

Result: "No module named AppKit."

So my program requires a module I've never heard of, which doesn't exist,
yet it runs fine within IDLE. What gives? All I'm trying to do is assemble
a Windows EXE of a program that's already working, so I can distribute it
without asking people to install Python, Pygame, and Numeric.

Could this error have something to do with the directory structure? I put
setup.py in the main Python dir. along with a copy of my program's code,
and ran python from there.

Kris



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 24 05:38:02 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:38:02 +0100
Subject: newbie question: data structure for book indexing
References: <c3pvu7$mgf$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <40616549$0$131$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Peter Nelson <nelso513 at cts.umn.edu> wrote:

>What would be the best way to store and access this data? I'm thinking 
>that using a bsddb recno database might be simplest. But because the 
>index itself is ultimately a (very) sorted structure, would it make 
>sense to try storing the data in BTree format?
>
>Would it make sense to design a Python class IndexEntry to mimic the 
>functionality of index cards, then store this in a db via shelve?

I think it is not wise to decide on data formats and handling of data
without knowing the details. Post an index card here and describe the
kind of operations you want on the data. Alternatively, put an index
card under a photocopying machine and have some "balloons with arrows"
pointing to the different elements, describing what the data is about.
For example: is this number a date, an index, a string?

Make a scan of this annotated index card, transform this scan into a
jpg-image in order to make it easy to download, and put it on a
website. Post a link to this jpg-file here or in some other
newsgroups. A html-file documenting the card, with a card.jpg would be
even better.

This way people would be able to give more helpful advice. Also, some
other people from unexpected disciplines might gain just from knowing
about this request or they might give valuable info themselves.

Anton


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 27 19:11:41 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:11:41 +0000
Subject: PEP 318 : Def and Class in expressions
References: <opr5jagci1b723ru@news.free.fr>
	<106bql6gnvrqpda@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5q1c60pd4ta6hudm2u33ohki3q0d5htust@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:56:18 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"PF" <peufeu at free.fr> wrote in message news:opr5jagci1b723ru at news.free.fr...
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm pleased to see activity on this topic as it pains me to write
>> "classmethod" two pages of code after the method definition. However I
>> find the decorators to obfuscate the syntax and lessen the expressivity
>> (ie. they restrain what can be done).
>
>Why are you writing methods that long? (That's rhetorical -
>I'd break it up so I could understand it)

While readable methods tend to be short methods, breaking up a method
without good reason can also damage readability. Also, having many
simple units doesn't remove complexity - it merely means that the
complexity is in the interaction between units. And if readers can
only understand the units one or two at a time, and don't understand
how the units interact, it follows that the code as a whole isn't
readable.

I've seen this problem more times than I care to mention. You look at
module A and it all makes sense and looks fine. You look at module B
and it all makes sense and looks fine. You look at modules A and B
together and you can spot the incompatibility - the difference in the
assumptions made in each module about the interactions between them.
But when there are 100 much simpler modules, and a dozen or more play
some role in the incompatibility, suddenly its much harder to
understand how the incompatibility arises.

Keeping related code and definitions together is a good principle. But
that applies just as much to two pieces of related function body code
as it does to a function definition and its wrapper. If you routinely
split long functions purely for reasons like keeping the wrapping
statement close to the definition of the function it wraps, or out of
the principle that methods should be short, then that's fine. But
don't expect me to read it.

All things are a balance in programming, as in life. Strong principles
can get you only so far - if you impose absolute principles on
everyone and in every case, often they will do more damage than good. 

>> mymethod = staticmethod(def(args)):
>>     method code...
>
>> is also quite ugly.
>
>Why? Except for the ':', which I would eliminate (although
>there are arguements for keeping it) I think it reads quite well.

Mainly because the method code appears to be associated with the
assignment, or the assigned variable, rather than the def. It's hard
(maybe impossible?) to name a block structure in any language that
doesn't start with a word that identifies the type of block. Probably
the only common statements of any type that don't start with an
identifying keyword are assignments. That isn't a fluke.

Anyone pointing out the streaming operators in C++ gets half a point.
Strictly they're just operators in an expression, but they get used in
such an imperitive way that I half count them as statements.

>> I don't like the decorators either.
>
>Neither do I. I don't find that any version of the syntax flows.

There is a certain lack of beauty, I agree. But while there is beauty
in simplicity, there is pragmatism in realising that not all
complexity can be avoided.


>2. How to handle multiple blocks in one expression.
<snip>
>The way to handle item 2 is with the following set of
>indentation rules:

I disagree.

There are two common cases I can think of where names are used before
they are defined. One is mathematics (y = mx + c, where x is ...) and
the other is Haskell, working on much the same principle.

There is a certain similarity of purpose in the Pascal 'with' block,
in that the Haskell 'where', like the Pascal 'with', is mainly used
for abbreviation - though the means is rather different.

Messing around with these principles, I came up with...

  with x :
    x = staticmethod(x)
  where def x (args) :
    ...

But virtually the only suggestion I prefer this to is yours, I'm
afraid :-(

>5. A suspended expression continues on the line immediately
>after the end of the function body. It must be indented to the
>left of the function body, and to the right of the indentation for
>the statement containing the expression.

This suggestion is IMO close to insane.

You are breaking up a statement and putting potentially quite large
chunks of body code in the middle of it - maybe several function
bodies. And you are doing this to avoid having code between the
function definition and its wrapping assignment.

In other words, you are deliberately splitting up closely related code
in order to avoid splitting up closely related code. And making the
lexical structure and layout of Python code more complex in order to
do it.

If you limit it to the case where a single statement containing a
single def can be followed by the body code, then it isn't actually
insane (though I'm still strongly against it) but if you have two
functions being manipulated by the same wrapping code (I don't see the
need, but lets go with it anyway) then one way or another the wrapping
code is going to be separated from at least one functions body. In
this case, referring to the functions by name is the only thing that
makes sense. We don't need any new syntax to do that.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Mon Mar  1 05:44:59 2004
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 02:44:59 -0800
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0403010244.3fe507ae@posting.google.com>

> What makes it better or worse than languages like 

Python has loads of modules, which are easy to install.

Python has good documentation, with useful examples.


I'm trying to learn Scheme at the moment, to broaden my programming
horizon. I am generally finding it an uphill struggle. Scheme might be
a theoretically better language design, but in Python you can just get
on and do it.

Someone once suggested that the fact that Python had a Benevolent
Dictator For Life is a possible positive on its popularity, and I
think that the suggestion has merit. Effort has been made to make it
accessable to the ordinary programmer.

To give just one example ...

Regular expressions. 

MIT Scheme explains its REXP abstraction: "In addition to providing
standard regular-expression support, MIT Scheme also provides the REXP
abstraction. ". But it doesn't give any examples. And I couldn't find
any by Googling, either.

Now look at Python. Section 4.2.1 (Regular Expression Syntax) kindly
reminds us of the regexp syntax - something that MIT does not. Section
4.2.2 and 4.2.6 then goes on to give us some regexp examples.


Python is popular because it tries to be popular. Scheme seems more
academic, with a more "why would you want a GUI anyway?" type
attitude.


From olku at web.de  Fri Mar 26 04:57:10 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:57:10 +0100
Subject: Fork+Timeout
Message-ID: <c40uq1$f48$1@news.web.de>

Hello,

do someone new how I can do the following?

I call a method which reads from a socket. So ... this method could hang
forever and so my call hangs too ...

So ... I can not change the behavior of this Method, so I have to change my
call.

I though by forking the call to this function and set a timeout to this
call, so my program won't hang forever.

But I don't know how I should do this and if this is the correct/best way to
do this.

Best regards
Oliver




From edvard+news at majakari.net  Tue Mar  2 01:08:06 2004
From: edvard+news at majakari.net (Edvard Majakari)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:08:06 +0200
Subject: Your favorite Python-related (X)Emacs thingamajiks? 
Message-ID: <87llmjn5mh.fsf@titan.staselog.com>


I just thought to share mine:

(define-skeleton esm-skel-python-def
  "Inserts a new python function definition at point."
  "method name: "
  "def " str
  "("
  ("argument, %s: "
   str & ", ") & -2 & "):" | -1 & "():"
   \n
   >"\"\"\"" ("comment: " str) ".\"\"\"" \n)

(define-abbrev python-mode-abbrev-table "def" "" 'esm-skel-python-def)

It's not very neat, but it does create a simple, consistent Python def
whenever you type 'def ' and prompts for a name, list of arguments and
comment for the method. Some day I'll try to make it more intelligent and
automatically add 'self' as the first parameter, if I'm inside a class. 

-- 
# Edvard Majakari		Software Engineer
# PGP PUBLIC KEY available    	Soli Deo Gloria!

$_ = '456476617264204d616a616b6172692c20612043687269737469616e20'; print
join('',map{chr hex}(split/(\w{2})/)),uc substr(crypt(60281449,'es'),2,4),"\n";



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 18:53:39 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:53:39 -0800
Subject: Any known bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
 deck?
In-Reply-To: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>
References: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>
Message-ID: <c35frm$nar$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Does anyone know of a bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card 
> deck? I'm planning to create a new cardgame which requires this kind of 
> deck (prototyping in Python and possible final development in Delphi; 
> flames about my tool choices will be gently dropped into the bit bucket)
> 
> I'd be very thankful about any information regarding this matter.

Aside from you using Python to prototype the initial "new cardgame", 
images of Spanish playing cards are very off-topic.

Search at google.com for the three terms: spanish playing cards
The second link will be for a site that sells decks of cards for $3.50 + 
shipping each.  Scan them.  That is how I would get images of Spanish 
playing cards.

  - Josiah


From sean_berry at cox.net  Tue Mar 30 10:53:47 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:53:47 -0600
Subject: Global name "userid" not defined??
Message-ID: <Uqiac.1044$zh.796@fed1read07>

How do I rectify this?

------vars.py------

#!/usr/local/bin/python

def setUserid(value):
    userid = value

def getUserid():
    return userid

--------------------

>>>import vars
>>>vars.setUserid("Sean")
>>>vars.getUserid()

Then I get a Traceback error and the last line says:
NameError: name 'userid' is not defined

How do I make a variable global?

Sorry about the easy question... but I don't have all that much experience
in Python.




From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 29 06:16:55 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:16:55 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <slrnc6fvnf.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010 at fed1read04>, Mark Hahn wrote:
>> But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
>> on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
> 
> 
> I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you mean the
> garbage colector?  The mark and sweep just behaves like another app running
> at the same time and uses a hunk of the cache to do it's job.  Other than
> that I can't think of anything unfriendly to the cache.  Am I missing
> something in your question?

This, I think:

http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2002-08/msg00552.html

Joe


From m.finardi at itia.cnr.it  Mon Mar 15 10:39:21 2004
From: m.finardi at itia.cnr.it (matteo)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 07:39:21 -0800
Subject: Swig-Python problems
Message-ID: <cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4@posting.google.com>

Hi, I've got a problem with SWIG and Python2.2.I've installed the
SWIG1.3.21 releaseunder QNX6.2 platform .I tried to make the exemple
example.c (in the directory ../Swig/Exemple/python/simple)
/* File : example.c */
 
 #include <time.h>
 double My_variable = 3.0;
 
 int fact(int n) {
     if (n <= 1) return 1;
     else return n*fact(n-1);
 }
 
 int my_mod(int x, int y) {
     return (x%y);
 }
 	
 char *get_time()
 {
     time_t ltime;
     time(&ltime);
     return ctime(&ltime);
 }.
After the commans:

 swig -python example.i
 gcc -c example.c example_wrap.c -I/usr/local/python2.2
 ld -shared example.o example_wrap.o -o _example.so 

 I use Python module as follows

 >>> import example

and I've got the message: "Memory falut (core dumped)"
What can I do??


From alessandro_valerio at msn.com  Tue Mar 16 00:15:47 2004
From: alessandro_valerio at msn.com (pius)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 21:15:47 -0800
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
Message-ID: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>

i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
programming.
Is there anybody who can suggest me where to find what i'm searching?
Thanks a lot.
pus


From donn at drizzle.com  Mon Mar 29 00:50:03 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:50:03 -0000
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1080539401.173853@yasure>

Quoth "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com>:
...
| I've tried every implementation of os.system, os.popen*, os.spawn* , and
| (os.fork + os.exec*) for which I can find an example or that I can imagine,
| but I can't come up with anything that works for me.  os.spawnv() looked
| very promising, but every process I start with it goes defunct.

Well, you need to fix that, no?  spawnv works for people, and very
likely it's the perfect thing for your application.  So start with
a simple Python program that uses spawnv on some ordinary utility,
like "date" for example, and if you can't get it to work you will
have a more specific question to pose.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From bubbarichau at warmmail.com  Wed Mar  3 13:21:36 2004
From: bubbarichau at warmmail.com (rich hammett)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:21:36 -0000
Subject: Tkinter on RedHat Linux 9.0
References: <b9jnb5$1mt8$1@reader.nmix.net>
	<pan.2003.05.13.22.38.11.699116@goodweb.de>
	<103pvjni4vc587e@corp.supernews.com>
	<103q06u9koeq30e@corp.supernews.com>
	<c1lo6f$n6k$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <104c8hgadsnei43@corp.supernews.com>

Sen j?lkeen, kun Perry Mason oli pahoinpidellyt
h?nt?, Russell E. Owen yll?tti tuomarin todistamalla:
> In article <103q06u9koeq30e at corp.supernews.com>,
>  rich hammett <bubbarichau at warmmail.com> wrote:

>>...
>>In fact, the python rpm from redhat CLAIMS to include
>>Tkinter already.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

> My own experience with a freshly installed RH 9 system was that it 
> included fairly old versions of tcl/tk and python, but no Tkinter.

> But it seems likely that there are downloadable Python RPMs that include 
> Tkinter. (Whether that includes the RPM at the RedHat site, I could not 
> say.) Still... it's really easy to build Python from source (kudos to 
> the developers!), and if tcl/tk are available in the usual location then 
> Tkinter is automatically built. (That's the route I went because I also 
> wanted a special destination directory.) If you do go this route, be 
> sure to check the ReadMe; there's a build flag you should set for RH 
> Linux.

Thanks, I also found some discussion on some RedHat boards about
this issue.  None of them mentioned the RedHat flag, though.

rich
-- 
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\  Rich Hammett       http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/  "Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world;
\   than the pride that divides
/                     when a colorful rag is unfurled."


From bugsyboy9 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 21:24:22 2004
From: bugsyboy9 at yahoo.com (Bugsyboy9)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 18:24:22 -0800
Subject: How to open a file, read from it, and retrieve information from it?
Message-ID: <433f4c9a.0403091824.2d3ed304@posting.google.com>

>From a GUI interface, a user needs to request a string to be searched
from a file and bring the string back, if it is in the file, and
display it in a different field within the same GUI.  Basically, I
need to be able to open a file, parse its contents, and bring the
requested information back and display it in a GUI window.

Any assistance would be appreciated.


Thanks.


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 15:27:00 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:27:00 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16467.28308.115604.437091@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    David> I'm not sure at this point if an improved reload() is worth
    David> pursuing, ...

I wrote something and threw it up on my Python Bits page:

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/

See if it suits your needs.

Skip



From mark at prothon.org  Sun Mar 28 14:20:39 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:20:39 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04>

> how does Prothon (or prototyped languages in general) handle multiple
inheritance or mixins?

There is no difference.  Prothon just has multiple protoypes with all the
normal problems (like the diamond problem) and the normal solutions.

Self defines having the same attribute in two different prototypes illegal.
That seemed extremely constraining to me so I went with the Python 2.2 mro
solution in Prothon.

"Joe Mason" <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message
news:slrnc6crti.dit.joe at gate.notcharles.ca...
> In article <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724 at posting.google.com>, Michele
Simionato wrote:
> > 1. The metaclass can raise the error *before* the metaclass is created,
> >    whereas the function works a posteriori, *after* the overriding is
done;
> >    if find it to be conceptually unsatisfactory, I don't want to create
> >    a class just to throw it away. The alternative is to use a class
factory,
> >    but then I have just re-invented a metaclass with an ugly call
syntax.
>
> In this case, you shouldn't worry about that, since presumably you're
> just using it during development so it'll never be called anyway in the
> release version.
>
> > 2. The metaclass can be inherited, so the check is automatic for all
children;
> >    on the contrary, I have to call the function by hand each time I
define
> >    a new class. This means writing twice the class name, which is error
> >    prone if I later rename the class and I forget to update the function
> >    call.
>
> You could just put the function call in your base class's __init__
> method.  (Or, in fact, put the code from that call directly there, if
> you only care when you inherit from the one Zope class.)
>
> > BTW, I wonder how Prothon would solve this problem, i.e. selectively
> > forbidding the overriding of names, with an easy of use/elegance
> > comparable to the Python metaclass solution.
>
> __init__ method, I believe.  But I just realized something - how does
> Prothon (or prototyped languages in general) handle multiple
> inheritance or mixins?
>
> > [*] I would be curious to know if Guido decided to expose metaclasses in
> > Python since he noticed that they were already being used in real
applications
> > such as Zope (in some hidden form), or if there was some other reason.
>
> http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#metaclasses has some
> references you might find interesting.
>
> Joe




From Henrik.Weber at sdm.de  Mon Mar 15 07:58:35 2004
From: Henrik.Weber at sdm.de (Henrik Weber)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 04:58:35 -0800
Subject: Using Pythonwin to poke at Windows apps?
References: <44254d3d.0403090600.3b14d84c@posting.google.com>	<mailman.177.1078844655.19534.python-list@python.org>	<44254d3d.0403110526.68157d29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.274.1079017725.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <44254d3d.0403150458.52e5d965@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote
> 
> I had to change the first FindWindow call to this:
>   e = win32ui.FindWindow("CabinetWClass", None)
> and then it finds an instance of the normal Windows Explorer, on XP pro.

That's strange. I'm running XP pro as well. Why can't those people
keep their software consistent :-(

> You are correct that the TBBUTTON instance contains all zeros, but it
> doesn't crash for me.  Of course I'm not running a released version of
> ctypes, instead a patched cvs version.
> 
> I cannot see anything that is wrong, it seems that the SendMessage call
> doesn't change anything in the TBBUTTON instance.  Can it be that some
> messages are not valid over process boundaries?

Yes, that seems to be the problem. It appears there are some hoops to
jump through if I want to do that. I found a message in a VB forum
about this problem and, what's more, a VB module that does the hoop
jumping. I'm porting this to Python now. Read access already works,
the rest should follow pretty soon.

Thanks your help.

Henrik


From jon_couchman at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 04:51:18 2004
From: jon_couchman at hotmail.com (jon c)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:51:18 +0000
Subject: is perl better? 
Message-ID: <Law11-F49GkQ6mBySsx000111a9@hotmail.com>

Thanks for all the help.

to answer a few questions.

if comand string is cmd

then perl code looks like

system(cmd)

and python code looks like

os.system(cmd)

I have tried popen(cmd) too and get the same problem as with os.system.

the complete erro message, which comes from windows terminal and not python 
is simply

The following character string is too long:

follwed by the parsed character string.

I have managed to solve the problem doing the obvious thing (which is always 
the last thing you think of and need help remebering) and that is using the 
os.environ to set the classpath and not passing this as an argument to java.

thanks for you help!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo




From boober95 at rogers.com  Fri Mar  5 00:02:54 2004
From: boober95 at rogers.com (Bill)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:02:54 GMT
Subject: How to access the Oracle9i?
References: <a48d7271.0403012133.77abd1b8@posting.google.com>
	<20040302233413.0a0bb66c@localhost>
Message-ID: <2ST1c.142532$Qg7.14298@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

I heard good things about the cx package since I was looking at the same 
stuff recently.  Note you will need to install the Oracle client for this.

If you are doing just a few simple queries you can do without cx and the 
client by calling 'sqlplus' and just sending the input and capturing the 
output.  I had this working using 'popen2' and running sqlplus as a child.

This is viable if you are happy calling sqlplus each time, ie could you do 
what you want as a shell script, but it is worth considering.

/bill


Oleg Popov wrote:

> On 1 Mar 2004 21:33:45 -0800
> slackgg at 163.com (slackgg at 163.com) wrote:
> 
>> HI:
>>   above title..
> Try cx_Oracle.
> I think it is the best variant on Linux,win32 and Solaris.
> "cx_Oracle is a Python extension module that allows access to Oracle
> databases and conforms to the Python database API specification. This
> module is currently built against Oracle 8.1.7 and 9.2.0. " see:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/atuining/
> 
> 
> Popov Oleg,
> Oracle DBA
> 
> popovob at samaramail.ru



From anand at easi.soft.net  Thu Mar  4 00:48:04 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:18:04 +0530
Subject: Python Event in India ..
References: <5cc5bb23.0403030507.120598f6@posting.google.com>
	<ovihh1-r2r.ln1@pluto.home>
Message-ID: <4046C314.5010700@easi.soft.net>

Hi all,

I am from bangalore - india. Recently I embedded python into my application.
my application just rocks now!! :-))

as of now i am training in my office & I am great fan of python.
Well i learnt it quiet recently, not expert though.
I also can join you guys to increase the awareness of python:-))

Have a great day!!
Anand



Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:

> Somesh Bartakkay wrote:
>
>> Am basically from India - Pune.
>> here is very less (say NO) Python AwareNess ..
>> so i wanna increase it..
>> am trying in my own way but for making it in VERY proffesional manner
>> and on very HIGH level ...its necessary to arrange Python Event here.
>>
>> shall anyone guide me how it is possible ?
>> Python Even in INDIA will surely PAY gr8 brains to Python Community
>> ...
>
>
> There is a Indian Zope and Python Users Group web site 
> (http://www.izpug.org/), with a mailing list at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/izpug/. However it has never been active 
> of late. How about working to make that a success?? :)
>
> Join the linux-india-programmers at sourceforge.net mailing list at 
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-programmers . 
> This list is language (and even platform) agnostic, and there are 
> quite a group of good python programmers here.
>
> - Sandip
>
>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar 18 17:57:30 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:57:30 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com><gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com><40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com><qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca><abbf50l09jdtlup5mpnudi5pm6f4q7ku41@4ax.com><qnk65d2adbi.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5bvj50tp0qc4j0kibo7q8ul86t5t8k2901@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3d9gm$594$1@sea.gmane.org>

For what it's worth: the idea of changing the meaning of 'is' been
discussed on the PyDev (development) list for a couple of days.  GvR posted
this a few hours ago ('the code' refers to an example misusing 'is'):

"I'm ready to pronounce.  The code is buggy.  There are good reasons to
keep 'is' the way it always was.  The definition of 'is' ain't gonna
change.  So be it"

Terry J. Reedy






From ross at karchner.com  Fri Mar 19 10:33:44 2004
From: ross at karchner.com (Ross M Karchner)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:33:44 -0500
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
In-Reply-To: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Ht6dnUv2WpREj8bdRVn-sA@giganews.com>

I can't offer any comparisons, but I have had no trouble with compiling 
or using Python on Freebsd, both compiling the official source 
distribution or from the FreeBSD ports collection.

To download, compile, and install from ports, simply:

cd /usr/ports/lang/python
sudo make install

-Ross


Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.
> Regards,
> -pu
> --
> http://www.homepages.lu/pu/


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar 29 20:14:49 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:14:49 -0000
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
	<c9d82136.0403191806.151cfa46@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.182.1079778728.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106hig963n0du28@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.182.1079778728.742.python-list at python.org>,
Hugh Macdonald <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote:
>I suspect I'll probably use Donn Cave's suggestion when I give it a go on
>monday - I'd rather not use any external modules if I can help it, and I
>know that stderr gives me output in a format that I can read (I know exactly
>which command I want to run here, and I have the program working properly
>except for not being able to stop if before it finishes on its own.....)
			.
			.
			.
Please understand that, as external modules go, Pexpect
is easy to like, because it's "pure Python".  It's just
some Python source code.  You can choose to put it all
inside *your* program, then there's nothing "external".
If you wish, just think of it as a particularly long
Usenet reply that has already been tested.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From mike at mkp.ca  Wed Mar 31 10:53:49 2004
From: mike at mkp.ca (Mike Pelletier)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:53:49 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com> <AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com> <Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>

I find it surprising to see programmers arguing for top-posting.  They
are arguing that exchanging the single author's time and brain cycles
for the time and cycles of many readers is a good trade-off.  Perhaps
they just feel their time is infinitely more valuable than anyone
else's.  I'm sure every top-poster present can think of vendors who
work from the point of view that their time and effort is more
valuable than the user's.  The result of this philosophy is alienating
to users of software AND articles.

Didier Morandi said that the greatest reason for posting is so one may
"get help or information".  I don't think that's really so, I think
that sould be further generalized to, one posts to communicate.  If
one's goal is to communicate (perhaps to communicate a question, but
whatever), why wouldn't one stress clarity to the reader above
convenience to the author?

Top-posting is a mildly offensive presumption viewed in this light,
like telemarketing or squeegee kids.

Mike.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Mar 29 01:47:00 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:47:00 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F7A@opus.amorhq.net>

x = [chr(a) + chr(b) for a in xrange(100) for b in xrange(100)]

# list version: c = []
for i in x:
    if i not in c:
        c.append(i)
>>> t1.timeit(1)
2.0331145438875637

# dict version: c = {}
for i in x:
    if i not in c:
        c[i] = None
>>> t2.timeit(1)
0.0067952770534134288

# bsddb version: c = bsddb.btopen(None)
for i in x:
    if i not in c:
        c[i] = None
>>> t3.timeit(1)
0.18430750276922936

Wow. Dicts are *fast*.

I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
25?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From python-list at qbcon.com  Wed Mar  3 16:32:19 2004
From: python-list at qbcon.com (Andreas Pauley)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:32:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: MVC-type Framework in Python
Message-ID: <20040303204032.Y349@bsd4.intranet.qbcon.com>

Hi,

I'm interested in finding a nice way to develop applications that have
their business logic separated from the user interface (among other
things). This should enable easier maintenance, more flexibility and
(ideally) less development time for the app.

I've recently read about the Model-View-Controller design framework
(originally used in SmallTalk applications, or so it seems).
What python-specific tools/frameworks would you recommend that can be used
to implement MVC, or something similar (or perhaps better) than MVC?

I'm looking for something that can help build
interface-independent applications, with all logic in a central place.
There would typically be a GUI interface, character interface and
web-based interface, all accessing the same python logic.
The interfaces need not be python-specific. I would like, for example, to
have an existing PHP website access the same logic.

Another thing that would be nice is centralized validation.
If you change your validation rules in one place, the interfaces get to
know that without you having to change code on the interface.
Is it feasible to have python extract validation rules from the database
(e.g. a varchar(20) field) and pass that through to a gui interface that
would limit the amount of characters entered to 20? If you then change the
database field to a varchar(30), the change should be
detected without having to change any other code.

At the moment I'm just researching all of the different options for
designing/implementing applications (typically multi-user database-driven
apps), so I would appreciate any ideas. I assume some ideas have proven
themselves more feasible in production environments than others.

Regards,
Andreas.




From paul at boddie.net  Mon Mar  1 05:28:12 2004
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 02:28:12 -0800
Subject: Licensing of wrappers around C/C++ code under more restrictive
	licensing.
References: <7ed8f64d.0402280218.5ff447cf@posting.google.com>
	<du7ishrmqsv.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<dc6f5c99.0402281637.71f8a571@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1.1078031359.21439.python-list@python.org>
	<Lmx0c.58917$aH3.1816559@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<7xsmgtqo23.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0403010228.536f69cb@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xsmgtqo23.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...

[Quoting someone else]

> > > The FSF peoples seem to have a different interpretation, as, last I
> > > heard, they suggest that software that links to any GPL software, even
> > > at run-time constitutes an infringement (regardless of your not having
> > > distributed the GPL code yourself, and the end-user having a perfectly
> > > valid license to link the two for personal use).

> "Andrew Koenig" <ark at acm.org> writes:
> > 
> > Can you provide evidence to support this claim?
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LinkingWithGPL

The question is pretty vague, though: "Does the fact that I link with
your program mean I have to GPL my program?" What that could mean is
that in situations where such linking is certain to take place (ie.
where you also distribute the GPL'd program with the intent that the
two function together), you would need to provide your own program
under the GPL.

I don't believe that there's anything stopping anyone from releasing
their own program separately under their own choice of licence,
although it would be a decent compromise (if not virtually compulsory)
to mention your offer to license that program under the GPL in the
event that the user combines it with the GPL'd program in their own
environment. I'd certainly like to hear of a more substantial
rationale (plus precedents) which contradicts my interpretation.

Paul


From philh at invalid.email.address  Sun Mar 28 14:55:46 2004
From: philh at invalid.email.address (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:55:46 +0100
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6ebe2.7aa.philh@cabalamat.cabalamat.org>

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:59:03 -0500, Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
># [11] current method
>def foo(self):
>       "doc string"
>       very
>       long
>       body
>       ....
>foo.spark_rule = "DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT",
>foo.url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory")
>foo = publish_to_web(foo)

How about:


def foo(self):
   this_method. spark_rule = "DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT"
   this_method.url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
   this_method = publish_to_web(this_method)
   " doc string "
   very
   long
   body


>Personally, I find all of this very off-putting. I find none of these
>proposals clean, clear, and/or readable, except perhaps [11] (which started
>the whole mess in the first place). 

I tend to agree with your sentiments.

>I tend to agree with the following,
>somewhat out of context, remark:
>
>"""
>If only we could learn from others' mistakes:
>
>Finally, in designing Self, we have learned one lesson by making mistakes:
>examples can persuade the designer to include additional features which
>later turn out to produce incomprehensible behavior in unforeseen
>circumstances. This might be called the language designer's trap.
>Minimalism, simplicity and consistency are better guides. They benefit every
>programmer, not just the ones who need advanced features. We suspect that
>many of today's object-oriented languages could profit by dropping features.
>
>Programming as an Experience: The Inspiration for Self
>"""

Indeed.

-- 
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than 
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk)  




From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 11:07:32 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:07:32 -0700
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:06:38 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:54:56 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>wrote:

>>Scopes are defined by the boundaries of functions, classes and
>>modules, not for loops.  This is essential, or you would have to
>>declare global variables inside most for loops.
>
>I am not following this argument.  The surprise, specifically,  is
>that I don't think of myself as having declared "t" as a variable.  it
>is don't magically, as a placeholder and for a very specific purpose.
>So I would expect it to go away outside of the " [ " and " ] " by
>equal and opposite magic.

The "declarations" are automatic, whenever you *use* a variable.  I
would *not* expect temporary variables in a loop to go away outside of
the loop.  It's just another variable in the current namespace.

I think I may have misunderstood your original question.  The title of
the thread is 'loop scope', but your question seems to be specifically
on the loop iteration variable 't'.  Just think of it as a normal
variable in the current local scope.

The one exception I can think of is what Terry Reedy mentioned - the
iteration variable in a list comprehension.  In some future
optimization, they may neglect to save that variable.  I hope they
don't do that (even though it really has no use).  I just like the
consistency we now have in treatment of all local variables.

-- Dave



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Mar 15 19:42:56 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:42:56 -0300
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338373B@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Kinda lost throug the mails.

At the end, and taking care of all that considerations, what is the
recommended method to quit?

Thank you all!

.	Facundo








#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: kbk at shore.net [mailto:kbk at shore.net]
#- Enviado el: Domingo 14 de Marzo de 2004 10:03 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: Re: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
#- 
#- 
#- Jason Harper <JasonHarper at pobox.com> writes:
#- 
#- > In a non-subprocess IDLE, you don't have to hit a 
#- breakpoint to be able
#- > to examine a running Tkinter program.  Both the shell 
#- window and the
#- > user program are fully responsive at the same time.  For 
#- example, you
#- > could type a command to change the appearance of a button, and
#- > IMMEDIATELY try out the button with its new appearance, since the
#- > mainloop is still running.  This ability is lost in a 
#- subprocess IDLE.
#- 
#- OK, another good reason to retain the non-subprocess capability.  The
#- user Tkinter code is mixed in with IDLE's Tkinkter code, but there is
#- a practical use for experimenting with layouts.  To get this to work
#- cleanly, you eliminate the mainloop() call and use destroy():
#- 
#- ===================
#- IDLE without subprocess (-n switch):
#- 
#- from Tkinter import *
#- 
#- class App:
#- 
#-     def __init__(self, master):
#- 
#-         frame = Frame(master)
#-         frame.pack()
#- 
#-         self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red",
#-                              command=self.quit)
#-         self.button.pack(side=LEFT)
#- 
#-         self.hi_there = Button(frame, text="Hello",
#-                                command=self.say_hi)
#-         self.hi_there.pack(side=LEFT)
#- 
#-     def say_hi(self):
#-         print "hi there, everyone!"
#- 
#-     def quit(self):
#-         print "quitting"
#-         a = raw_input("prompt: ")
#-         print a
#-         root.destroy()
#- 
#- root = Tk()
#- app = App(root)
#- 
#- =======================
#- 
#- And, as you say, you can do amusing things like
#- 
#- >>> app.button["text"]
#- 'QUIT'
#- >>> app.button["text"] = "REALLY QUIT"
#- 
#- -- 
#- KBK
#- -- 
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 



From http  Tue Mar  2 14:59:16 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 11:59:16 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xn06z6mwb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

beliavsky at aol.com writes:
> Thanks. I am going to learn about Psyco. In this case, I assume that
> doing the computations with floating point numbers and finally
> converting the result to int gives the same values as the original
> integer calculation. 

This isn't obvious since the answer around 1.15*2**52 and Python
floats have 53 bits of precision.


From dmq at gain.com  Sun Mar 21 23:20:09 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:20:09 -0700
Subject: Reload() Confusion
References: <u4l450hv7isekpk09upvhcpi3b18m3p8a7@4ax.com>
	<VvMXAls/K7NM089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <g2qs50hvt1p0n21icb0jka43cct9mfah0q@4ax.com>

I like this code example because it gets the student to think about
how modules are kept in memory.  Showing the module's dictionary
before and after a reload is great.  I'll try to integrate it into my
presentation, perhaps in place of the second example, which can now
become an exercise.  Thanks.

-- Dave

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:55:17 -0500, mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
wrote:

>For what it's worth, the following code:
>
>#=======================
>"""M1 version 1"""
>a=1
>b=2
>c=[1]
>d=[2]
>
>#=======================
>"""M1 version 2"""
>a=1
>b=4
>c=[3]
>e=[4]
>
>#=======================
>"""test_reload.py"""
>import os, shutil
>def module_contents (M):
>    print "Doc: ", M.__doc__
>    for k, v in M.__dict__.items():
>        if not k.startswith ("__"):
>            print "%s:\t%d\t%s" % (k, id(v), v)
>
>def grab_contents (M):
>    d = {}
>    for k, v in M.__dict__.items():
>        if not k.startswith ("__"):
>            d[k] = v
>    return d
>
>#os.remove ("M1.pyc")
>shutil.copyfile ("M1_1.py", "M1.py")
>import M1
>module_contents (M1)
>mc = grab_contents (M1)
>
>print
>os.remove ("M1.pyc")
>shutil.copyfile ("M1_2.py", "M1.py")
>reload (M1)
>module_contents (M1)
>
>print '\nMC:'
>for k, v in mc.items():
>    print "%s:\t%d\t%s" % (k, id(v), v)
>
>
>
>
>Which gives
>
>F:\home\mwilson\Projects\python\testscript>python test_reload.py
>Doc:  M1 version 1
>a:      8463376 1
>c:      9940432 [1]
>b:      8470496 2
>d:      9940368 [2]
>
>Doc:  M1 version 2
>a:      8463376 1
>c:      9940272 [3]
>b:      8468480 4
>e:      9937584 [4]
>d:      9940368 [2]
>
>MC:
>a:      8463376 1
>c:      9940432 [1]
>b:      8470496 2
>d:      9940368 [2]
>
>
>The second os.remove seems to be required in case the reloaded
>version of M1.py is older than the imported one.
>
>        Regards.        Mel.



From garryknight at gmx.net  Tue Mar 30 13:26:30 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:26:30 +0100
Subject: Global name "userid" not defined??
References: <Uqiac.1044$zh.796@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <1080671189.22373.1@damia.uk.clara.net>

In message <Uqiac.1044$zh.796 at fed1read07>, Sean Berry wrote:

> How do I rectify this?

> def setUserid(value):
      global userid
>     userid = value
> 
> def getUserid():
      global userid
>     return userid

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Mar 16 11:59:03 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:59:03 -0500
Subject: TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
References: <mailman.6.1079337283.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XJzVAls/KXxb089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.6.1079337283.12241.python-list at python.org>,
Atul Kshirsagar <atulkshirsagar at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I am observing that;
>As explained above when multiple threads are running.
>And as one of these threads finishes, in other running
>threads I start getting "TypeError: 'NoneType' object
>is not callable" error on the methods called on class
>objects in extention module.
>Does anyone know why this might be happening ? Is
>there any specific way I should be using Python and
>Extention modules in multi-threaded environment ?
>Any help is appreciated !!!

   I'm guessing here.  My test gets a different error
message:


Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import types
>>> types.NoneType
<type 'NoneType'>
>>> n = types.NoneType()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: cannot create 'NoneType' instances


   The object None is intended to be unique, so it would
make sense if programs were forbidden from making more
instances of NoneType.

   Whatever route you've taken to get a reference to
types.NoneType which you then call is probably a mistake.

        Good Luck.      Mel.


From roy at panix.com  Fri Mar 26 13:53:45 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:53:45 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
> tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
> a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
> Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
> lines, thus destroying the indentation.

Are you objecting specifically to the use of the tab character for 
indenting, or to the use of white space for statement grouping in 
general?


From http  Tue Mar  9 17:48:39 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 14:48:39 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.151.1078807449.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7xoer6i2s7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c2l8oj$9c9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xhdwx4oxk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> > http://gigue.peabody.jhu.edu/~mdboom/omi/source/shm_source/shm.html
> > But you will have to know what you're doing.
> 
> OOO, that is nice.  I've been using IP sockets for all local
> communication, sweet.

shm isn't for everyone, since it gives you all the standard hassles of
concurrent programming.  But using IP sockets is really unnecessary on
a local system.  You should use AF_UNIX sockets instead.  They have
much less overhead than IP sockets.


From maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl  Fri Mar 26 03:54:43 2004
From: maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl (Maarten van Reeuwijk)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:54:43 +0100
Subject: Vector math
References: <pan.2004.03.24.03.52.35.703059@NOSPAMml1.net>
	<c3r3bu$3ci$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c40r4j$g6v$1@news.tudelft.nl>

> Check numarray:
> http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray
> and Numeric Python:
> http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/

I bumped into the same problem, but couldn't find those features, so I wrote
them myself using the Numeric package. Below follows an example where I
rotate the z-axis 45 degrees.

>>> from manips import *
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = array([1,1,1.])
>>> base = [array([1,0,0]), array([0,1,0]), array([0,0,1])]
>>> newbase = rotatebase(base, [0,0,45 / 180. * 3.14])
>>> changebase(a, newbase)
array([  1.41421345e+00,   5.63088062e-04,   1.00000000e+00])
>>> a = transpose(array([ [1,1,1.],[-1,-1,-1.]]))
>>> transpose(changebase(a, newbase)
... )
array([[  1.41421345e+00,   5.63088062e-04,   1.00000000e+00],
       [ -1.41421345e+00,  -5.63088062e-04,  -1.00000000e+00]])

the 'transpose' commands in the second example are needed because the
changebase algorhytm expects an array containing only x, y and z values.
Below follow the two routines.

HTH, Maarten

def changebase(vecfield, newbase):
    """ Changes the base of the vectorfield. newbase is a list containing
the
       new basevectors (each is a 1D-array). vecfield is a list containing
       the fields for the individual vector components fields. The lenght of
       the vecfield and newbase lists must be identical. The new field is
       calculated as:
            *
          u     =  u   b
            i        j   i,j

       Clearly, the basevectors are the new principal directions relative
       to the CURRENT coordinate system.
       """

    vf = vecfield
    nb = newbase
    nf = []

    if size([vf[0]]) == 1:
        isfield = False
        tc = vf.typecode()
    else:
        isfield = True
        tc = vf[0].typecode()

    tmp = array(vf[0], tc, savespace = 1)

    for bcomp in range(len(newbase)):
        if isfield:
            tmp[:] = 0
        else:
            tmp = 0
        for vcomp in range(len(newbase)):
            tmp = tmp + nb[bcomp][vcomp] * vf[vcomp]

        nf.append(array(tmp))

    if not isfield:
        nf = array(nf, tc, savespace = 1).flat

    return nf


def rotatebase(base, rotation):
    """ Rotates the base (given as a list of lists or array objects) over a
        angle given by rotation. The transformation happens according to:

              _                     _           _                    _
             |  1      0      0      |         | cos b   0     sin b  |
        Rx = |  0      cos a  -sin a |  ; Ry = | 0       1     0      |
             |_ 0      sin a  cos a _|         |_-sin b  0     cos b _|

                               _                _
                              |  cos c  -sin c 0 |
                         Rz = |  sin c  cos c  0 |
                              |_ 0      0      1_|
               z
               ^
               |
               |
               |                  Rx : rotation along x-axis (a pos from y
-> z)
               |--------> y       Ry : rotation along y-axis (b pos from z
-> x)
             /                    Rz : rotation along z-axis (c pos from x
-> y)
           /
         x

        newbase = Rx * Ry * Rz * base (all matrix multiplications)
      """

    alpha, beta, gamma = rotation

    sa = sin(alpha); ca = cos(alpha)
    sb = sin(beta);  cb = cos(beta)
    sg = sin(gamma); cg = cos(gamma)

    rot = array([[cb * cg               , -cb * sg               ,
sb      ], \
                 [sa * sb * cg + ca * sg, -sa * sb * sg + ca * cg, -sa *
cb], \
                 [-ca * sb * cg + sa * sg, ca * sb * sg + sa * cg, ca *
cb ]])

    newbase = []
    for bv in base:
        newbase.append(matrixmultiply(rot, array(bv)))

    return newbase

-- 
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk                    Thermal and Fluids Sciences
Phd student                             dept. of Multiscale Physics
www.ws.tn.tudelft.nl                 Delft University of Technology


From sroutier at rogers.com  Wed Mar 31 16:47:10 2004
From: sroutier at rogers.com (Sebastien Routier)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 13:47:10 -0800
Subject: Newbie: "ImportError: DLL load failed:"
Message-ID: <9ef261e8.0403311347.2d2737fe@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I have been contemplating Python for a while, and when I found this
article (http://www.xml.com/pub/a/ws/2003/05/13/email.html), I decided
that it was time to try!
I installed everything that I can think off: Python 2.3.3, pywin32-200,
and spambayes-1.0a9. But despite my best effort my first Python script
does not take off!
When I try to launch the MAPI extractor I get this error:
--------------- START PASTE ------------------
h:\>c:\Python23\python.exe h:\src\outlook_extractor.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "h:\src\outlook_extractor.py", line 4, in ?
    from win32com.mapi import mapi, mapiutil
  File "win32com\mapi\mapi.pyc", line 9, in ?
  File "win32com\mapi\mapi.pyc", line 7, in __load
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.

h:\>
---------------  END PASTE  ------------------

I have tried just about every trick I can think off. No luck !!! I would
really appreciate if someone would point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
/Sebast.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 20:40:22 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
In-Reply-To: <2c60a528.0403101722.71506b59@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040311014022.41193.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew Clover <and-google at doxdesk.com> wrote:
>   - read in the file and transcode it before passing
> to expat
>     via minidom.parseString, or,


by "transcode", do you mean something like:

theTranscodedString = unicode(theOriginalString)

And then do:

xmldoc = minidom.parseString(theTranscodedString)

Right?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  9 13:49:05 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:49:05 -0500
Subject: While: else: (was Re: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python)
References: <mailman.120.1078757424.19534.python-list@python.org><l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com><20040309035213.GB18682@unpythonic.net><003c01c405a9$b4483720$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<20040309142924.GI12662@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <c2l3j0$6q7$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
news:20040309142924.GI12662 at unpythonic.net...
> > I think some of that could be alleviated through the use of 'else'
> > with 'for/while' although it looks like I need the opposite of its
> > semantics (a 'not else').  Quite frankly the existence of 'else'
> > in this context as a language feature baffles me and I don't use it.
>
> The same goes for me.  I can never remember when the "else" clause will
> execute, and for that reason I'm very unlikely to use it.

It is ironic that these comments on while-else should arise in a thread on
goto.  In:

if condition: something()
else: somethingelse()

it is clear somethingelse executes when condition is false.  If Python had
label and goto statements, one could write:

label: start
if condition:
  something()
  modify_condition_vars()
  goto: label
else: somethingelse()

It is still clear that somethingelse executes when condition is or becomes
false.  The difference is that something may be executed zero to many times
first.  Also, barring an infinite loop, somethingelse is guaranteed to
execute.  In today's real Python, we delete the label and goto and change
'if' to 'while' and write the above as

while condition:
  something()
  modify_condition_vars()
else: somethingelse()

It may be less clear, but somethingelse still executes when condition is or
becomes false after zero to many executions of something (and
modify_condition_vars).

To complicate matters, add a second goto to the pseudoPython:

label: start
if condition:
  something()
  if condition2:
    goto: done
  modify_condition_vars()
  goto: label
else: somethingelse()
label: done

Now, somethingelse may be bypassed by the new goto.  So it executes if and
when condition is or becomes false, which may or may not never happen.  In
today's real Python, break is used instead for the same effect.

while condition:
  something()
  if comdition2: break
  modify_condition_vars()
else: somethingelse()

In the special case of iterating through a list, where the condition is
'there is another item in the list', this is condensed further to

for item in list
  something()
  if comdition2: break
else: somethingelse()

Again, somethingelse executes if and when the condition becomes false,
which is to say, when the list is exhausted (which maybe the reader is by
now), which process may be 'broken' by the break statement.

Terry J. Reedy






From shagshag13 at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar 18 08:27:10 2004
From: shagshag13 at yahoo.fr (Shagshag)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 05:27:10 -0800
Subject: shutils.move lose files !
Message-ID: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>

hello,

here is a behavior that i discover by error : 

in the following example directory 'stupid' is lost such as eventual
files and directory contained in it (for example 'atest.txt') while i
would have prefer to be warned or at least nothing to happen.

is it a bug ? 

----------
Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.

    ****************************************************************
    Personal firewall software may warn about the connection IDLE
    makes to its subprocess using this computer's internal loopback
    interface.  This connection is not visible on any external
    interface and no data is sent to or received from the Internet.
    ****************************************************************
    
IDLE 1.0.2      
>>> import os
>>> os.mkdir('c:/stupid')
>>> open('c:/stupid/atest.txt', 'w').write('a file')
>>> os.listdir('c:/stupid')
['atest.txt']
>>> import shutil
>>> shutil.move('c:/stupid', 'c:/stupid/donotexist')
>>> os.listdir('c:/stupid')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#22>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    os.listdir('c:/stupid')
WindowsError: [Errno 3] Le chemin d'acc?s sp?cifi? est introuvable:
'c:/stupid/*.*'
>>>


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 31 07:49:34 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:49:34 +1000
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
In-Reply-To: <c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20040331124934.GB14465@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 12:30:23PM +0200, Didier Morandi wrote:
> Max M wrote:
> 
> >That is not quite right. Using top posting forces every reader to 
> >unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in content.
> 
> (ages since I jumped into a troll... :-)
> 
> What against-top-posting people do not WANT to understand is that the very 
> first interest of posting is, to me, to get help or information.

My mail reader (I'm using the mailing-list gateway for comp.lang.python, but
this applies equally well to usenet readers) highlights quoted and
non-quoted text in different colours (in case the ">" aren't distinctive
enough already for you!).  I find my eye jumps directly to the fresh text
just fine, *and* when people snip text and bottom-post, I still get a
coherent, sensible, intuitively-ordered view of the conversation (not to
mention a seperate pane showing this messages position in the overall
thread).

It's the best of both worlds, but it's ruined by top-posters.

> So, you post your question and, by definition, you remember what it was 
> (well, I hope so).
> 
> Then, you go back to the ng the day after and if you got an answer, you are 
> interested in the answer, not to reread your post.

One of the great features of newsgroups (and mailing-lists) is their ability
to support multiple concurrent conversations -- and that's just within a
single group/list.  I subscribe to a lot of mailing lists.  It's nice to
have a contextual reminder of what the thing you're reading right now was
related to.

You are also presupposing a very limited question-answer format for usenet,
which is certainly not the only form of communication I see here.

> I do not read answers to questions I did not post, so I don't care about 
> "unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in content".
> 
> Period.

Then why are you reading this thread? ;)

-Andrew.




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 18:40:26 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:40:26 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com><4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.95.1079541201.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40200384.0403171519.418a73a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4058E1EA.7B8D5495@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> Nowadays, an equality test which detects difference of s and w could
> be defined by comparing the strings pickle.dumps(s) and
> pickle.dumps(w).

But this is a good indication that pickle.dumps(a) == pickle.dumps(b) is
_not_ equivalent to a == b, since your s and w self-referencing lists
are a good example of where the internal structure of the two lists is
not identical but they _are_ equal according to Python's definition of
sequence comparison, as I demonstrated earlier.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Liberty is the right to do whatever the law permits.
    -- Charles Louis Montesquieu


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Wed Mar 10 16:26:15 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:26:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2o15m$ii1$8@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> pisze:

> Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
> break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python, is
> easy to type, easy to read, and is clearly distinct from the "base"
> syntax.  

No, we don't. You need it.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From blitz-dev-bounces at oonumerics.org  Mon Mar  1 07:32:07 2004
From: blitz-dev-bounces at oonumerics.org (blitz-dev-bounces at oonumerics.org)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:32:07 -0500
Subject: Your message to Blitz-dev awaits moderator approval
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From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 21:38:32 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:38:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [python-chinese] cjkcodecs on mandrake, a problem
In-Reply-To: <13610527303.20040317102121@itcase.com,zoomq@infopro.cn>
Message-ID: <20040317023832.2992.qmail@web13003.mail.yahoo.com>

"Zoom.Quiet" <zoomq at itcase.com>, zoomq at infopro.cn,
INVALID_ADDRESS at .SYNTAX-ERROR.

Thank you, zoom.

But I did not send that email from Mandrake, but from
my Win2K.

--- "Zoom.Quiet" <zoomq at infopro.cn> wrote:
> Hello Anthony,
> 
> "'latin-1' codec can't encode" is the key!
> u say::
> s = "&#34770;&#34503;"  # 2 Chinese characters for
> 
> ??
> but we can see it as chinese!
> so so means in u sys default location is latin-1!!
> 
> anything encode as latin-1 ??
> 
> so so poor Mandrake.....
> 
> 
> 
> === [ 10:12 ; 04-03-17 ] you wrote:
> 
> AL> The superuser of the Mandrake system in my lab
> AL> installed cjkcodecs for python.
> 
> AL> But there is a problem.
> 
> AL> I can encode english alphabets like 'a', 'b',
> 'c' or
> AL> 'abc' like so:
> 
> AL> s = 'abc'
> AL> s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
> AL> print s # prints 'abc'
> 
> AL> but when I tried to encode Chinese strings, I
> have a
> AL> problem.
> 
> AL> For example, to run the following script:
> 
> AL> s = "&#34770;&#34503;"  # 2 Chinese characters
> for
> AL> python
> AL> s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
> AL> print s
> 
> AL> I get the following error message.
> 
> AL> [antony at ancho tmp]$ python snake.py
> AL> Traceback (most recent call last):
> AL>   File "snake.py", line 6, in ?
> AL>     print a
> AL> UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
> AL> characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in
> range(256)
> AL> [antony at ancho tmp]$ 
> 
> AL> What is the problem please?
> 
> 
> AL> __________________________________
> AL> Do you Yahoo!?
> AL> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less
> spam
> AL> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> === === === === === === === === === === 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
>  Zoom.Quiet                            
> 
>  /=======================================\
> ]Time is unimportant, only life important![
>  \=======================================/
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> python-chinese list
> python-chinese at lists.python.cn
> http://python.cn/mailman/listinfo/python-chinese
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 17:57:26 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:57:26 -0800
Subject: use  -> instead of lambda??
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<8fe46d4f.0403121207.30dd56d3@posting.google.com>
	<0Iq4c.2774$G3.22476@localhost>
Message-ID: <donn-4E3CB5.14572612032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <0Iq4c.2774$G3.22476 at localhost>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Bas wrote:
> > Couldn't we use -> instead??
> 
> We could use %--*(): and it still wouldn't be any better.  Just because 
> the characters are all used elsewhere is no advantage.  It's still ugly, 
> meaningless punctuation that makes the code less readable.

I'm hoping he was joking, but I guess you never know.  Surely
there's some humor to be gotten out of the notion that we could
make lambda work better for Python programming by changing its
name from "lambda" to "@".

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Thu Mar 11 02:56:12 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:56:12 +0100
Subject: Scope question
References: <c2p3fc$1uqag0$1@ID-64892.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40501B9C.2010005@geochemsource.com>

Subhash Chandra wrote:

> Hi,
>
> How can I make counter variable in function foo reference to global 
> counter variable in the following code. Generally C programmers tend 
> to write code like that I am looking for simple way to do it in python.
>
> --- BEGIN ---
> counter = 0
>
> def foo():
> if counter < 10:
> print "count = ", counter
> counter += 1
>
> foo()
> --- END ---

You need to tell explicitly that the name 'counter' is global. It is 
because used this statment in your function:

counter += 1

which is a rebind of the name 'counter'. So python thinks it must be a 
local name.
Here is what you want:

counter = 0

def foo():
global counter
if counter < 10:
print "count = ", counter
counter += 1

foo()





From user_77 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 29 11:50:25 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:50:25 GMT
Subject: feval similar to Matlab
References: <eiN8c.344132$Po1.301096@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ad052e5c.0403260010.777f514b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.29.16.49.32.975435@hotmail.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 00:10:29 -0800, Dan Bishop wrote:

> "Nobody" <user_77 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<eiN8c.344132$Po1.301096 at twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
>> I have to (re)write a matlab program in a language of my choice (it's for a
>> numerical analysis class) and it uses feval.  I was wondering if there's any
>> python module that works similarly (to feval).  It would save me a lot of
>> hassle. :)
> 
>>>> def feval(funcName, *args):
> ...    return eval(funcName)(*args)
> ...
>>>> from math import *
>>>> feval('log', 256, 2)
> 8.0


Thank you Dan


Wr



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 03:26:44 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:26:44 -0800
Subject: Sentence splitter module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.151.1079682785.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.151.1079682785.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3eb1q$ork$1@news.service.uci.edu>

 > Is anyone aware of a freely available sentence splitter module for 
Python?
 > It does not have to be anything fancy, but it should be able to split
 > written text in most European languages on regular punctuation mark
 > combinations followed by whitespace and possible supply a list of
 > abbreviations that override the plain punctuation rules.
 >
 > All advice appreciated.

Check out this thread:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=c2d741%24m3t%241%40news.service.uci.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26safe%3Doff%26q%3Dsentence%2Bjosiah%2Bgroup%253Acomp.lang.python.*%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

  - Josiah


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 15:52:54 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:52:54 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
References: <fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
	<42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16471.26918.414850.903830@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dave> I agree, punt is the right play for now, but I want to make one
    Dave> clarification, in case we need to re-open this question.  The
    Dave> semantic change we are talking about applies only to the 'is'
    Dave> operator, and only to a few immutable objects which are created
    Dave> via a reload of a module in "debug" mode.  All other objects,
    Dave> including those from other modules remain unchanged.  Objects like
    Dave> None, 1, 'abc', which are treated as shared objects in normal
    Dave> modules, will be given a unique ID when loaded from a module in
    Dave> debug mode.  This means you will have to use '==' to test equality
    Dave> of those objects, not 'is'.  Since 'is' is already a tricky,
    Dave> implementation-dependent operator that is best avoided in these
    Dave> situations, the impact of this added option seems far less than
    Dave> "changing the semantics of the language".

Don't forget all the C code.  C programmers know the object which represents
None is unique, so their code generally looks like this snippet from
Modules/socketmodule.c:

        if (arg == Py_None)
                timeout = -1.0;

"==" in C is the equivalent of "is" in Python.  If you change the uniqueness
of None, you have a lot of C code to change.
    
    Dave>     def h23(freq):
    Dave>         s = complex(2*pi*freq)
    Dave>         h0 = PZfuncs.h0
    Dave>         z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
    Dave>         p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
    Dave>         return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

    Dave> Notice the clarity in that last formula.  

Yeah, but h0, z1, z2, etc are not long-lived copies of attributes in
PZfuncs.  If I execute:

    >>> blah = h23(freq)
    >>> reload(PZfuncs)
    >>> blah = h23(freq)

things will work properly.  It's only long-lived aliases that present a
problem:

    def h23(freq, h0=PZfuncs.h0):
        s = complex(2*pi*freq)
        z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
        p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
        return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

    Dave> In this case we avoid the problem of local variables out-of-sync
    Dave> with a reloaded module by refreshing those variables with every
    Dave> call to the function.  In other cases, this may add too much
    Dave> overhead to the computation.

Unlikely.  Creating local copies of frequently used globals (in this case
frequently used globals in another module) is almost always a win.  In fact,
it's so much of a win that a fair amount of brain power has been devoted to
optimizing global access.  See PEPs 266 and 267 and associated threads in
python-dev from about the time they were written.  (Note that optimizing
global access is still an unsolved problem in Python.)

Skip



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Mar 18 00:06:36 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 15:56:36 +1050
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc5icob.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:24:26 +0100, Nicola Mingotti wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:24:14 +1050, Ben Finney wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:45:56 +0100, Nicola Mingotti wrote:
>>>>>> '1' > 1 
>>> True
>
>> This should not be surprising; the values are different, so one will
>> be "greater than" the other; but comparing them is not of much use.
>
> Here i expect "Undefined Operation"

It is defined, as you saw from inspecting the '1'.__gt__ attribute.

> or, if this is defined, this means that '1' and 1 are comparable

Yes.  They're stored in the computer, they have different values, those
values are scalars and thus comparable.

> so, either 1 is seen as string or '1' is seen as a number

Neither of those is the case.  The string is a string; the number is a
number.

Type conversion when a comparison is done is not necessary, and isn't
done.  The values are compared, not converted.

>>>>>> '1' + 1
>>> TypeError 
>
> With this result i see that none of the two before mentioned
> possibility is possible because, in the first case i would expect ,as
> result, '11' and , in the second, i would expect a number . 

Hopefully my explanation shows why addition gives a TypeError while
comparison does not.

Where comparison is possible and unambiguous between values, it's
permitted.

Where addition is possible and unambiguous between values, it's
permitted.

> I obtain TypeError so , i think this is illogical .

I hope my explanation makes the logic clearer.

>> This, too, should not be surprising.  Adding a character and a number
>> has no unambiguously correct meaning.
> Also comparing a string and a character hasn't unambiguos meaning ,
> has it ? 

Yes: "compare the values as stored in the interpreter".  Not a
particularly useful thing to do, but harmless and unambiguous.

>>>>>>'1'.__gt__.__doc__
>>> 'x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y'
>>
>> Showing that the comparison is pretty much what you'd expect.  Again,
>> though, the result of comparing different types like character and
>> integer isn't particularly useful.
>
> Here i would expect the definition of '>' between strings . 

You've got the definition: "compare the values, return True if x is
greater".  There's no need for a string to have its own special
definition, different from other scalars.

> And the definition of '>' between 'chars' and 'integers'

A "char" is no different from a string in Python.

> given that a strange result has been returned .

What's the strange result, though?  One value is greater than the other;
you tested to see which one.  The result is either True or False;
neither of those is strange.

> I know python is growing and free so i don't expect that everything is
> documented or everything is correct and that is the reason i asked
> here.

You did the right thing; I hope you're gaining the realisation that
Python isn't doing anything strange or wrong in this case.

>> What behaviour did you expect?
>
> i imagined two possibility :
>
> 1) Like CommmonLisp (clisp implementation) -----> A Strinct Type Error 
> [1]> (> "1" 1)
> *** - >: "1" is not a REAL

Lisp is extremely restrictive of what can be compared with its '>'
operator:

    > ( > "A" "B" )
    *** - argument to > should be a real number: "A"

Python allows comparison of any scalar type; whether that's useful or
not is up to the programmer to decide.

> 2) Like C -----> Char is converted to int
> #include<stdio.h>
> int main(){
>   printf("%i %i", '1' >  1 , '1' + 1 );
>   return 0;
> }
>==> 1 50

With Python's comparison operators, no conversion needs to happen.  The
interpreter has values stored; those values are scalars.  If they
differ, one will be greater than the other.  That fact can be queried
with the comparison operators.  No type conversion needs to occur.

As pointed out in another post, the uselessness of comparing strings and
integers is compounded by the fact that there's no guarantee the same
result will occur on different machines, or different Python
implementations.

Since it doesn't break anything, though, I don't see why Python
shouldn't allow you to do it.  Nor do I see why it should be converting
values between types to do comparisons.

> Excuse me again for mistakes or possible (but unwanted) rude language

No rude language detected in this or your previous post.

-- 
 \     "I went to a museum where all the artwork was done by children. |
  `\       They had all the paintings up on refrigerators."  -- Steven |
_o__)                                                           Wright |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 03:29:14 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 00:29:14 -0800
Subject: How do i cast a string to be used as a module?
References: <9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403260029.12fde439@posting.google.com>

"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message news:<9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277 at fed1read03>...
> 
> But, what if I want to call a function from within this
> module that takes as an argument the name of a module.
> 
> For example if I was making a module like the following
> 
> import inspect
> 
> def functionname( modname ):
>     exec("import "+modname)
>     s = inspect.getsource( modname )
>     return s

Use s = inspect.getsource(sys.modules[modname]), of course, import sys
first.

Another thing that people often ask is how to access module level
variables by name string. The device there is the globals()
dictionary. So, remember that there are a few interesting namespace
dictionaries that come in handy:

(a) __builtin__ (it's a module, but you can access its namespace via
__builtin__.__dict__)
(b) globals() and locals()
(c) sys.modules
(d) os.environ
etc.

One has to be careful with the locals() dictionary (use it only as
read-only.)

regards,

Hung Jung


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Tue Mar 23 15:46:50 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:46:50 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<6ee58e07.0403230757.756f99cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_m18c.749$7F.112@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

On 23 Mar 2004 07:57:20 -0800, Lothar Scholz <llothar at web.de> wrote:
> 
> 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> 10) ... well you get the idea.
>

For prototyping, All of the Above.

For a deployed system, profile, profile, profile.





From thehaas at binary.net  Thu Mar 18 15:22:16 2004
From: thehaas at binary.net (thehaas at binary.net)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:22:16 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
References: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
	<c3cncg$gar$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<kum6c.29690$wg.18274@okepread01>
	<pan.2004.03.18.20.29.54.837344@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <Yxn6c.29711$wg.10636@okepread01>

Riccardo Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote:
[snip]
> by experience, you must first decode your string to encode it

> so
> >>> goodProcRef='Gr\xfc\xdf'.decode('latin-1')
> >>> goodProcRef
> u'Gr\xfc\xdf'

> now you could compare goodProcRef and plist[-1].Reference and get "True"

Why yes, that works!  Thanks Riccardo . . . 

This was my first real experience with Unicode in CPython.  I am
learning that I have much to learn. . . .

-- 
Mike Hostetler          
thehaas at binary.net 
http://www.binary.net/thehaas 


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 28 11:42:49 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:42:49 -0000
Subject: Minor observation on the programming enterprise (was: Python for
	large projects)
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <106e0498vbqa611@corp.supernews.com>

In article <8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade at posting.google.com>,
Hung Jung Lu <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>(a) In compiled language like C++, changing function prototypes and
>variable names is comfortable, because the compiler will find all
>those spots that you need to change. In Python, you do not have the
>same level of comfort. Sure, there are other techniques, but it's
>different than clicking a button.
			.
			.
			.
Remarkable fact that I see as turning up all over:  we work with
grep(1).  There are visual programming and language-savvy editors
and IDEs and refactoring plugins and all sorts of other tools, 
and we find our variables with text searches.  'Know how to make
a C programmer mad?  Name a global variable 'i'.  'Know how to
make him happy?  Change the name to 'ii'.  Both Lisp's inventor
and I keep our human address collection in a plaintext file.

It's as though humans tried for thousands of years to come up
with better ways to hit things, and kept returning to the idea of
a hammer.

Oh.  We have.

I'm not sure what to conclude.  It's one of the things that
civilians have a hard time appreciating, though.  "Good names"
are incredibly important in our quotidian work, as mundane as
they simultaneously are.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com  Tue Mar 30 09:16:40 2004
From: spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com (Vrai Stacey)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:16:40 +0100
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
	<c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <40698148.40907@spam.trap.kbcfp.com>

JCM wrote:
> a = b = c
> a = b == c

I had no idea you could do that! I was under the impression that 
assignment didn't return a value in Python, hence it being impossible to 
use one as a conditional.

That explains the use of '==' then - it's necessary to allow the above 
construct.


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 15:48:13 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 20:48:13 +0000
Subject: Mailing list hosting?
References: <8765dhd2dr.fsf@pobox.com>
	<mailman.94.1078651671.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<878yibccyz.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87d67lwxv6.fsf@pobox.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> OK, freelists.org *was* promising.  The submit button on the signup
> page leads to a page displaying raw HTML with no content of interest.
> I guess the site is no longer active.

Sourceforge fixed their ML creation system :-)


John


From frr149 at telefonica.net  Thu Mar  4 05:46:24 2004
From: frr149 at telefonica.net (Boogie El Aceitoso)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:46:24 +0100
Subject: Examples of using the html parser
Message-ID: <jbud401l6dn22ra0brc905dv6uuc89155j@4ax.com>

Hi,

Were can I find examples of the usege of the html parser class?


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Mar 30 03:08:54 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:08:54 +0100
Subject: Filemon-ish behavior by Python?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347EC@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>I like filemon, but I'd like it better if I could run it at the
>command line, and have the option of piping the output all over the
>place.  Does anyone out there know of an existing utility that can do
>this, or, barring that, can you point me to a good place to start on
>making such a tool using Python?  I'm not sure what I would have to
>hook into to watch these operations on the disk.

Glancing at the filemon blurb on the sysinternals website, they describe
its operation as follows:
"On Windows NT the heart of FileMon is a file system driver 
that creates and attaches filter device objects to target 
file system device objects so that FileMon will see all 
IRPs and FastIO requests directed at drives"

It might be possible to do this in Python using ctypes
and -- from my experience -- many hours of toil and sweat
oscillating between the MSDN documentation, other peoples'
examples, and the ctypes data structures. (Altho' I defer
to the many millions of people better qualified than I am
to determine this) But could I just ask: do you want
exactly what filemon is showing, or do you have a
slightly different requirement which filemon happens to
satisfy? It occurs to me that if you were just after, say,
audit logging, or noting file changes or something else,
then it might be possible to employ some other approach.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________



From surrender_it at remove.yahoo.it  Wed Mar 24 13:30:29 2004
From: surrender_it at remove.yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:30:29 GMT
Subject: splitString output as argument to string format fails?
References: <tmk8c.8739$fg3.1169@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <rpk360lk3m9t9p86b0afnrrlqbgf234lhp@4ax.com>

il Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:23:21 GMT, "U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" <"Charles
Krug"@cdksystems.com> ha scritto::

>List:
>
>I'm trying to pull comma delimited data from a file, then format for
>display in a listBox.  I'm using string.split()
>
>When I do:
>
>    print string.split(myInputLine, ',')
>
>I get something like:
>
>['Mon Mar 22 09:37:28 2004', ' <cbLogger>', ' -- Log opened
>successfully\n']
>
>But when I attempt something like:
>
>    f = '%s %s %s' % string.split(eachLine, ',')
>
>I get:
>
>TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>

works like a charm for me :
(s is the string without ',')

>> str='%s, %s, %s'% s
=> "Mon Mar 22 09:37:28 2004,  <cbLogger>,  -- Log
opened\nsuccessfully\\n"
>> "%s %s %s" % str.split(',')
=> "Mon Mar 22 09:37:28 2004   <cbLogger>   -- Log
opened\nsuccessfully\\n"


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 19 01:39:46 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:39:46 -0800
Subject: Is there a map or graph module?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F19@opus.amorhq.net>

Lilith wrote:
> Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
> which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
> finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
> through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
> would be less parsimonious.

What Josiah said:

http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html


I happened to need that myself today, and wrote:

http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/index.html -> graphs.py

...which does simple, non-weighted Graphs, directed or un-. Needs an
"all paths" method. Feel free to run with it.


HTH

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From python-list at d1z1.de  Wed Mar 10 16:09:22 2004
From: python-list at d1z1.de (Dirk Zimmermann)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:09:22 +0100
Subject: Iterating over tuple entries in a list
Message-ID: <20040310210922.GA477@tyrone.slothrop.xx>

Hi,

I have the following problem:

I have a list with tuples in it, looking like this:

myList = [(1.1, "file1"), (1.2,"file2), (1.9, "file3")]

(I want to store a number calculated from a file together with the
file.) Than I want to use functions expecting a list of floats. Is there
an easy way to slice myList? I know, that:

myList[2][0]

gives:
1.9

But:

myList[0:2][0]

does _not_ give something like:

[1.1, 1.2, 1.9]

By now I loop over the list, select the numbers and store them in a new
list. But I don't like that way very much. Is there a "better" way?


Best,
Dirk




From nando at quantlib.org  Wed Mar 31 11:46:52 2004
From: nando at quantlib.org (Ferdinando Ametrano)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:46:52 +0200
Subject: [ANN] QuantLib-Python 0.3.5
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040331183739.0258bd50@mail.ametrano.net>

                       QuantLib-Python 0.3.5
                       ---------------------

QuantLib-Python is a SWIG wrap of QuantLib.
QuantLib [1] is a cross-platform, free/open-source quantitative finance C++ 
library for modeling, pricing, trading, and risk management in real-life.
Version 0.3.5 of the C++ library and the Python extension have been released.

                              What's new
                             ------------

     - Migrated to SWIG 1.3.21
     - In sync with QuantLib 0.3.5
     - See [2] for an overview of the library
     - See [3] for a summary of the changes since version 0.3.4

License:  BSD style

Categories: Miscellany

URLs:
[1] http://quantlib.org
[2] http://quantlib.org/html/overview.html
[3] http://sf.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=12740&release_id=223212

--

<P><A HREF="http://quantlib.org">QuantLib-Python 0.3.5</A> - A module for 
quantititative finance.</P>

--




From eric at zomething.com  Sat Mar 13 20:23:37 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:23:37 -0800
Subject: Python & the job market
Message-ID: <20040313172337.1985623987.eric@zomething.com>

FuManChu wrote:

> Java was designed to benefit your career. Python was designed to benefit
> your life. Pick one.


Or... pick two, grasshopper.

Eric Pederson
"paychecks have their benefits, too..."



From rupole at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  9 21:14:19 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:14:19 -0800
Subject: DLL version number
References: <8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e@posting.google.com>
	<404d1159_5@127.0.0.1>
	<8ef9bea6.0403091148.19e75629@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404e4bf0_4@127.0.0.1>

The \StringFileInfo\.... calls retrieve all the info that comes up on the
property page, including the 4-part version number.  You can also use
win32api.HIWORD and win32api.LOWORD to separate the FileVerserionMS
and FileVersionLS that are returned when it's called with just a \.
     hth

           Roger

"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ef9bea6.0403091148.19e75629 at posting.google.com...
> "Roger Upole" <rupole at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<404d1159_5 at 127.0.0.1>...
> > You can use win32api.GetFileVersionInfo.
> > See /demos/getfilever.py for an example of how to use it.
> >        Roger
> >
> > "Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e at posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > If I have a Windows DLL file, how can I retrieve its version number
> > > (e.g.: 2.40.4275.1)? Does Win32 extensions, ctypes or related modules
> > > provide such a utility?
>
> Thanks. However, I still have problems. What I need are the 4-part
> version numbers, which GetFileVersionInfo() does not provide.
>
> I tried several alternatives, including GetFileVersionInfo() and the
> mwi module. However, these alternatives do NOT give the 4-part version
> number that one sees by right-clicking on a DLL (on Win2k.) The
> puzzling part is that apparently at the C level, the data structure
> _DllVersionInfo contains only 3 parts: dwMajorVersion, dwMinorVersion,
> dwBuildNumber.
>
> (For COMCAT.DLL, GetFileVersionInfo() gives only two-part version
> number: 4.71, whereas if you right click in Windows 2000, you get a
> four-part version number: 4.71.1460.1)
>
> Anyway, the relationship between the 4-part version number and the
> 3-part version number is highly non-trivial and I do not see any easy
> rules that applies to all DLLs. (For some DLLs, the last part of a
> 3-part version number can be split into the last two parts of the
> 4-version number, but this rule is not universal.)
>
> I wonder what Windows uses internally to get the 4-part version
> numbers?
>
> regards,
>
> Hung Jung




From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Mar 15 04:30:14 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:30:14 +0100
Subject: getting size of gif
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1079339146.12241.python-list@python.org>
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com><9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com><104se8bhc5rm477@corp.supernews.com><mailman.13.1079302660.682.python-list@python.org>	<1079307022.31907.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>
	<mailman.7.1079339146.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405577a1$0$228$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Garry Knight wrote:
> 
> 
>>>note that you don't need all of PIL to run the above example; it's enough
>>>to install Image.py, ImageFile.py, ImagePalette.py, and the
>>>*ImagePlugin.py files you need for your application.  the binary
>>>extensions are not needed.
>>
>>Gosh, what a payload!
> 
> you can download the files from the net; you don't have to type
> them in yourself.


And they probably take up less space than a single word template file ...


regards Max M


From amartin at wpsnetwork.com  Wed Mar 10 03:21:29 2004
From: amartin at wpsnetwork.com (Aurelio Martin)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:21:29 +0100
Subject: emai - Multiple recipenets in "To:"
In-Reply-To: <c2l3g5$h0f$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
References: <c2l3g5$h0f$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <c2mj5v$1tt5iv$1@ID-50400.news.uni-berlin.de>


Miki Tebeka wrote:
> Hello All,
> 

...

>     s.sendmail(main["From"], main["To"], msgstr)

s.sendmail expects a list of recipients as the second parameter. You are 
passing a string. Try :

       s.sendmail( main["From"], main["To"].split(", "), msgstr)


From danslists at fastmail.fm  Sat Mar 20 11:27:38 2004
From: danslists at fastmail.fm (Dan Boitnott)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:27:38 -0600
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
In-Reply-To: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
References: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>

John Burton wrote:
> Has anyone got any suggestion on the best way to allow my program to
> listen on those socket without runing as root when doing anything else?
> Ideally I want this to be portable so the same program still runs on
> windows.

The standard practice is to make the program setuid, be root just long 
enough to bind to the socket, then change to an unprivileged user (like 
"daemon").  The idea is to run as little code as root as possible.

You can make a program suid root like this:

# chown root.root myprog.py
# chmod a+s myprog.py

And you can change users in Python like this:

----------------
import os
os.setreuid(2, 2)
----------------

UID 2 is normally the daemon user.  If you want to use a different user 
you can refer to the /etc/passwd file.

You may also want to run as the user who spawned the program in the 
first place:

----------------
import os
uid = os.getuid()    # Gets the "real" UID

# Do your socket binding

os.setreuid(uid, uid)
----------------

Hope this helps.

Dan Boitnott
dan at lclinux.org


From leo at bella.local  Tue Mar 23 07:38:16 2004
From: leo at bella.local (leo)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 23:38:16 +1100
Subject: how to "touch" a file
Message-ID: <m28yhreo1z.fsf@bella.local>

hi there

how can i "touch" a file, or more precise give it a specify mofification
timestamp?

i only found o.utime, but that seems to be cumbersome, beacuse in order
to set the modification time to a specify value i have to set the
access time as well.

so, is there anther module provideing an easier way just for the
modification time?

thanks, leo


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 17:43:41 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:43:41 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com>
	<Yx3RAls/KDUL089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <6ubf401c2qtarfoa36m03572dprj0h9kkl@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:58:32 -0500, mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
wrote:

>In article <f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe at 4ax.com>,
>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>>What I think is going on "under the hood" with the print statement is:
>>
>>def print(*args):
>>   for arg in args:
>>      sys.stdout.write(arg)
>                        ^^^
>Ahem,                  (str(arg))
>
>>      sys.stdout.write(' ')

Ahem part two - too many spaces, as you add one after the last arg.


def print (*args) :
  for arg in args[:-1] :
    sys.stdout.write (str (arg))
    sys.stdout.write (" ")

  if len(args) > 0 :
    sys.stdout.write (str (args [-1]))

  sys.stdout.write ("\n")


...or...


def print (*args) :
  sys.stdout.write (string.join ([str(i) for i in args], " ") + "\n")


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  1 14:19:54 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:19:54 -0500
Subject: python.org list mail fixed
Message-ID: <20040301191954.GA6872@panix.com>

Mail should be flowing again.  If you don't see your messages soon,
you'll need to resend them.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python



From pengz1 at netzero.com  Wed Mar 17 15:33:41 2004
From: pengz1 at netzero.com (pengz1 at netzero.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:33:41 GMT
Subject: Encoded file
Message-ID: <20040317.123415.18463.1998145@webmail24.nyc.untd.com>


Hi!
Could I ask you, how can I know a file is encoded as 'UTF-8', 'UTF-16' or something else? Thanks in advance. 

Zhi

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Mar  7 04:26:54 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:26:54 +0100
Subject: Mailing list hosting?
In-Reply-To: <8765dhd2dr.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <8765dhd2dr.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20040307092654.GA4053@nl.linux.org>

John J. Lee wrote:
> I want to set up a mailing list for web-client programming in Python,
> but sourceforge has a problem setting up new lists ATM, and I've been
> waiting weeks for them to solve it.
> 
> Anyone know a good alternative for free mailing list hosting?

There are some sourceforge alternatives, one of which is Savannah
(savannah.nongnu.org). This is quite strict about licensing, however.
For more alternatives, look at:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Open_Source/Hosting

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 07/03 08:55 UTC:
	6.0?C Few clouds partly cloudy wind 3.1 m/s W (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From myyogesh at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 29 05:48:29 2004
From: myyogesh at hotmail.com (Yogesh)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 02:48:29 -0800
Subject: Problem embedding python in C
Message-ID: <cca710cc.0403290248.cb846e3@posting.google.com>

hi all,
  I want to iterate on a list of list returned by python in C. The
iteration is fine, except getting the values of the items in the list.
Following is the code that i have tried. Any comments would be
appreciated

#include <Python.h>
#include <windows.h>

main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  Py_Initialize();

  PyObject *module = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
  PyObject *dict = PyModule_GetDict(module);
	
  int iReturn = PyRun_SimpleString("list=[['one', 1],['two', 2]]");
  PyObject* pListOfList = PyRun_String("list", Py_eval_input, dict,
dict);
  if (PySequence_Size(pListOfList) < 0)
    printf("Nothing in the sequence\n"); //Not a list 

  assert(PySequence_Check(pListOfList));
  for (int i = 0; i < PySequence_Size(pListOfList); i++) {
    PyObject* pList = PySequence_GetItem(pListOfList, i);
    assert(pList != NULL);
    if (PySequence_Check(pList))
    {
      for (int j = 0; j < PySequence_Size(pList); j++) 
      {
        PyObject* pItem = PySequence_GetItem(pList, j);
        assert (pItem != NULL);

        if (PyString_Check(pItem))  //<--Crashes here 
          printf("%d string\n", i);
	if (PyInt_Check(pItem))
          printf("%d int\n", i);
        if (PyLong_Check(pItem))
          printf("%d long\n", i);
      }
    }
  }
  return 0;
}


- Yogesh
BTW: There is very little documentation about embedding python in C,
or is that we couldnt find it?


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar 21 22:03:42 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:03:42 +1100
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C6F58@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Jon Perez
> 
> Is it really the case that it isn't even recommended to 
> distribute one's
> application as .pyc files?

No - this is not the case. It is perfectly fine to distribute using .pyc files, and in fact this is what py2exe does. However, it is then required that the correct version of Python be used.

> > Java does something similar behind the scenes with HotSpot.
> > It compiles things to native code, and keeps profiling information.
> > They are not written out to disk and hence are not persistent
> > between executions, but if they were the usage would be analogous
> > to .pyc files.
> 
> In Java, profiling info may not be written out to disk, but the
> bytecodes certainly are (they are what is in the class files).  Which
> is roughly equivalent to what happens with .pyc files, correct?   .pyc
> files don't contain profiling info, nor was I ever aware that 
> the Python
> VM even does run-time behaviour profiling... (Pysco may, though)

This is not what is being described. There is no requirement for .pyc (or .pyo) files to be created, but you can rely on a particular released version of python being able to use .pyc files generated by the same minor version of CPython. However, you cannot rely on the .pyc file *actually* being used - for example, if there is a .py file with the same name and different timestamp in the directory, the .pyc file will be ignore and (unless read-only) will be overwritten by a new .pyc file.
> 
> In practice though, there is really just one implementation of Python
> (with the standard libraries... excluding Jython) which works 
> using the
> same bytecode mechanism on _all_ platforms, so as far as I can tell,
> it would be quite feasible to distribute applications in .pyc form.

This is correct, with the caveat that you can only rely on it working with a specific version.

Note that Jython does not actually create .class files (unless you run jythonc) - it actually creates the java bytecode in memory and uses a custom classloader. CPython does a similar thing - when it reads a .py file, it creates the bytecode in memory. If possible the bytecode is written to a .pyc file for later reuse, but it doesn't have to, and will work just fine if it can't.

Tim Delaney



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 27 06:26:52 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 03:26:52 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b840abf4.0403221108.7f5edd26@posting.google.com>
	<c3qdvr$b8n$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b840abf4.0403240019.36288d6d@posting.google.com>
	<x7y8pmpmz7.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <406564FC.BBA899FB@alcyone.com>

Dieter Maurer wrote:

> But you can easily add "." to the search path.

Yes, but you shouldn't for security reasons on a true multiuser machine.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ As far as I'm concerned, being any gender is a drag.
    -- Patti Smith


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 17 18:39:31 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:39:31 -0600
Subject: Unicode and UrlEncode!
In-Reply-To: <ba129ce7.0403171512.8a276d4@posting.google.com>
References: <ba129ce7.0403171512.8a276d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040317233931.GA10968@unpythonic.net>

You should transform the byte string 'french' from whatever encoding
it's in (latin-1 according to your coding: directive) to unicode, if
you are going to tell google it's in Unicode.

Example:
    "s\xc8dimentation".decode("latin-1").encode("utf-8")

Or, you can tell Python that the string is a Unicode literal, and it
will do the .decode() step for you:
    u"s?dimentation".encode("utf-8")

"" is always a bytestring literal, and u"" is always a unicode string
literal.  If you have "<sequence of bytes>" then the string's value at
runtime is "<sequence of bytes>", and if you have u"<sequence of bytes>"
then the string's value is "<sequence of bytes>".encode(<file encoding>)

Jeff



From ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com  Sat Mar 13 19:22:39 2004
From: ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com (Geoff Howland)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:22:39 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
	<104nnqlq81dvj48@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403081300.42e2d061@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s097509frqkrc1h4rv2u9ri89ii0dictq7@4ax.com>

On 8 Mar 2004 13:00:51 -0800, kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) wrote:

>"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<104nnqlq81dvj48 at news.supernews.com>...
>
>> Your comment below makes me wonder if you're trying
>> to create a "text adventure" game. I'm not certain whether
>> to take it literally or not.
>
>Well, it's a graphical game. There are many similarities to text games
>but also quite a few differences, such as input handling and sound
>often being dependent on the display being set up, for instance.

Sorry if this reply is too late to be useful.  :)

Coming along late in this process, there are ways to do functional
tests on games from a higher viewpoint than than various bits of the
engine, which can be tested by more conventional method.

The basics are saving user input and time when it changes, and then
replaying to back.  You should be able to test that things stay the
same when you make changes, as long as you save your random seeds and
all the time differences between
frames/cycles/whatever-you-use-to-control-looping.

You can do this to check positions of actors/entities in the game,
game states at various points, or even graphics by taking screen shots
and checking them.

When the game really changes, you can just rebaseline your data and
work off the new results.  You will at least have a way to make sure
you arent breaking things.

I think this is especially important after you have released a game
and are either making fixes or improvements.  It's very scary to
release a game again when you have changed it, as there are a lot of
conditions that could fail or crash or break because of the large
variety of actions the user can take (including going into menus,
changing options, and back into the game, etc).

Baseline functional tests can still be useful for this.  I did this to
some extent with my last game, and it was very useful.  I implemented
the screenshot testing as well, but didnt use it extensively as it was
at the end of my development cycle.  I also made stability tests
(maybe "load test" similarity) by having an 'AI' control the player
and do fairly random things, make random walks through the UI, go back
to playing, etc.  After normal unit/function tests, this randomy-AI
player test gave me a lot more confidence to release changes after a
few days of running without crashes.

As a bonus, it also worked great as an "attract mode", and since I
presented this game at a conference, I could just let it play itself
and have people walk up and interrupt the test to start playing
themselves.  :)
 

-Geoff Howland
http://ludumdare.com/


From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Wed Mar 31 02:08:53 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:08:53 +0200
Subject: Python compiler -> py to C, py to ELF
Message-ID: <1072088773.20040331090853@anonym.hu>

Hello !

Know anyone about py2C compiler ?
I see that py2jar is exists, and is named jython.

But have a python a compiler what can compile the complete project
into one ELF binary file ?

Thanx for infos.

-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                          mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu




From ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Mar  1 10:52:30 2004
From: ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:52:30 GMT
Subject: Regular Expressions in Python
References: <c7c33240.0403010618.12391181@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.16.1078152536.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2%I0c.16685$qo.12711@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.16.1078152536.22701.python-list at python.org...
> opt_spaces  = " *"
> identifier  = "[A-Za-z_][A-Za-z0-9_]+"
> comment     = "\*.*"
> opt_comment = "(%s)?" % comment
>
> pat = re.compile(opt_spaces + identifier + opt_spaces + opt_comment + "$")
>
> for test in (
>         "  END *This is a comment",
>         "  END  e * This is a line with an error (e)"):
>     print test, pat.match(test)
>
> Jeff
>
Assuming you're more interested in the identifier than in the comment,
change identifier to "([A-Za-z_][A-Za-z0-9_]+)" so that the keyword gets
saved in the pat.match.groups() list.

-- Paul




From srijit at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 06:10:55 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 03:10:55 -0800
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0403130310.4f7bba30@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Try Traits (http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits).

Regards,
Srijit

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message news:<mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> wrote: > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> writes:
> > 
> > > Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:
> > > 
> > > > Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> > > > > How do I force static typing in Python?
> > > > 
> > > > You have to enforce it by code instead of
>  declaration, i.e. you
> > > > have to do runtime type checking.
> > > 
> > > Just what do you understand "static typing" to
> > mean ?
> > 
> > I ask because I am prepared to accept that you have
> > a different
> > working definition of "static typing" from mine, but
> > people who
> > actually want static typing typically want it
> > because they think it
> > gives them the following advantages:
> > 
> > a) type errors caught at compile time,
> > 
> > b) faster program exectution.
> > 
> > The code you showed:
> > 
> > > > class doesTypeChecking:
> > > >      def __init__(self):
> > > >          self.__dict__["aString"] = ""
> > > >          self.__dict__["aFloat"] = 0.0
> > > > 
> > > >      def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
> > > >          if type(self.__dict__[attr]) !=
>  type(value):
> > > >              raise ValueError, "Type mismatch
> > for attribute %s\n" % attr
> > 
> > will catch no type errors at compile time, and will
> > slow down
> > execution, so I suspect that Premshree will be
> > disapponinted with it.
> > 
> > 
> > (BTW, my definition of "static typing" is "type
> > checking is done at
> > compile time" ... your example really looks like
> > dynamic typing to
> > me ... albeit with some restrictions on attribute
> > types.)
> > 
> > 
> > Premshree: Python is dynamically typed. There is no
> > way to enforce
> >            static typing. There is something called
> > "pychecker" which
> >            might be of some help to you. Why do you
> > think that you
> >            want static typing in Python ?
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 
> 
> Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
> so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is there
> something like it in Python?
> 
> Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> important requirement in a language?
> 
> =====
> -Premshree
> [http://www.qiksearch.com/]
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
> Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 23:13:40 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 04:13:40 GMT
Subject: Tangent on embeddability (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my 
 particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<roy-3EDA29.08465327032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<106b893s0sfut11@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406651FF.2A3A804E@doe.carleton.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> In article <roy-3EDA29.08465327032004 at reader1.panix.com>,
> Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>                         .
>                         .
>                         .
> >2) It's dead simple to embed in a C/C++ application.  This is one place
> >where it really outshines Python.  It's literally two lines of C to get
> >a Tcl interpreter up and running.  It's equally trivial to extend Tcl by
> >providing functions in C.  Compare this to the native Python/C
> >interface, boost.python, or swig, and you really appreciate the
> >difference!
> >
> >For most general purpose tasks, I reach for Python first.  But if I
> >needed to provide a quick scripting interface to an existing C library,
> >or wanted to embed some easy scriptability into a large C/C++ app, Tcl
> >is what I would be looking at.
> 
> Me, too, to a large extent.  I think you overstate Tcl's
> advantage, though, Roy, in a couple of ways.  First, I
> agree that Tcl is objectively easier and more reliable
> in embedding; Python still has blemishes in ease-of-use
> and portability in this role.  It can be hard getting
> all of Python embedded correctly, especially, in my ex-
> perience, when working on multiple platforms.
> 
> However, Tcl has historically been so easy that it hasn't
> bothered documenting the process.  Python has a definitive
> (if aging) embedding manual that I regard as more inviting
> than what Tcl offers.
> 
> Also, ctypes, Boost and Pyrex *are* successful, and appear
> to me progressing faster than any of their Tcl cousins.
> 
> Yet another way to look at the comparison is that a sig-
> nificant number of people rely on SWIG, and, to them,
> Tcl and Python are indistinguishable.
> 
> Follow-ups narrowed.  Most of Perl's response to all of
> this is, "Wait 'til 6!"


Thanks, Roy & Cameron, for the glimpse into TCL.  I had just
a passing bout with it in trying to use Synopsys's TCL based
shell.  It was far too brief to be a fair assessment, since
the documentation wasn't quite up to it, and I fell back to
their conventional shell (which itself was suppose to be
a brief detour to get some design information mulched out
from some verilog files).  Certainly didn't get to the level
of using it to interface to C libraries.  For the most part,
however, I'll be using "P..." for data conversion rather
than coordination of different library routines.  I've got
a pretty good template worked out with matlab on top and
C++ on the bottom.  I'll probably stick with this model until
I graduate.  I'm looking at "P..." to help with converting
design information from verilog to SystemC (C++ library for
digital hardware simulation) so that I can use it in the
matlab/C++ model, but it won't be part of the main line of
computation.

Fred


From me at privacy.net  Sun Mar 28 10:00:16 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 10:00:16 -0500
Subject: pysqlite
References: <mailman.8.1080475069.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2brmhyq2n.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:59:35 +1000,
Dave Harrison <dave at nullcube.com> wrote:

> I need to be able to flash a database with the sql def'ns I
> have, and it works if I pipe my file into sqlite, but when I
> execute the same data as a giant string I get no error, but the
> database isn't flashed.

> anyone have any ideas ? Ive tried stripping out newlines, all
> whitespace reduced to single spaces etc etc ...

Is there a final newline on the string?

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  1 19:28:43 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:28:43 +1300
Subject: How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of Ruby
 compared to Python?
In-Reply-To: <103qa53tajuhfdb@corp.supernews.com>
References: <bf23f78f.0402241443.678bf6c8@posting.google.com>
	<c1h1sb$1it26i$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<103qa53tajuhfdb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c20kfr$1o38qb$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> While I'm all in favor of distinguishing superficial from
> fundamental characteristics, I think the last sentence 
> above is misleading.  Ruby is a direct descendant from 
> Perl, I'm sure; I thought I had the word from Matz himself
> that he deliberately modeled a great deal of Ruby on Perl
> (and Smalltalk, of course).

I'm just going by what I see in the language. Beneath the
syntax, I see a lot that's very Smalltalk-like in Ruby.
I don't see anything that's fundamentally Perl-like,
on the other hand.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Wed Mar 31 04:57:55 2004
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:57:55 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c4e2e1$22u$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<UKfac.55410$au1.3237957@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<c4e2e1$22u$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <DCwac.56273$Ea7.3613725@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Peter Maas wrote:
> Roel Schroeven wrote:
> 
>> Whenever I make even the smallest wxPython program, it takes multiple 
>> seconds before the window is visible. Last time I tried was on a 
>> Pentium 4-M 2.2 GHz with 512 MB of RAM. Not a slow machine, and other 
>> software runs just fine.
>>
>> It's really annoying, and nothing I do seems to improve the situation.
> 
> 
> Did you try a preload? You can start an invisible task that keeps
> the wxpython stuff in memory. You could even start this task as a
> Win32 service so that it is loaded prior to any login.

That might be a good idea --  I'll try that the next time I'm doing some 
wxPython work.

> BTW, the load time is not only due to GUI libs. Python itself does
> also have a share. Just tried that with a command line script and
> my rough estimate is that approx. 50% of the wxpython load delay
> is due to Python itself (at least on my machine: Win 2000, 800MHz,
> 256 MByte).

In my experience, loading Python itself is very fast. Perhaps not if it 
isn't yet cached in memory, but afterwards that doesn't seem to be where 
the problem is.

That said, I just tried a simple little program, and it seems to be much 
faster than what I remember from 6 months ago. I'm not doing any 
wxPython work right now, but I'll do some more checking before 
complaining about startup speed again.

-- 
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 13:14:09 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:14:09 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.184.1080751252.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.184.1080751252.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kOadnckvP87sl_bdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Eric @ Zomething wrote:

> A community/wiki aspect would be useful, as it would seem to have a 

http://wiki.wxpython.org


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Wed Mar 17 16:45:03 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:45:03 +0100
Subject: Encoded file
References: <mailman.104.1079555760.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3ahe6$nga$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !



See in the module   "codecs.py" :


# UTF-8
BOM_UTF8 = '\xef\xbb\xbf'

# UTF-16, little endian
BOM_LE = BOM_UTF16_LE = '\xff\xfe'

# UTF-16, big endian
BOM_BE = BOM_UTF16_BE = '\xfe\xff'

# UTF-32, little endian
BOM_UTF32_LE = '\xff\xfe\x00\x00'

# UTF-32, big endian
BOM_UTF32_BE = '\x00\x00\xfe\xff'



--
@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau
site : http://mclaveau.com




From ciw42 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  2 19:44:48 2004
From: ciw42 at hotmail.com (ciw42)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 16:44:48 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
	<7xn06z6mwb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <75a58466.0403021644.161d6561@posting.google.com>

Even the most basic optimising compiler would turn your example Fortran
increment variable loop into a few basic machine code instructions operating
on hardware registers, which combined with the internal cache would keep the
entire loop inside the processor avoiding memory bandwidth issues etc. It's
not surprising you're getting such dramatic ratios, but it's hardly a real
world example.

Compiled optimised code will (should) always be significantly faster than
interpreted code, but you lose all of the benefits of using a language such
as Python in the process, so it's all rather pointless comparing languages
in this way.

I've spent over 20 years coding all manner of languages - assembly, BASIC,
COBOL, C/C++, VB, Delphi etc. and speed of execution is of little or no
concern in 99% of the projects I work on, especially these days. If it were
the be-all and end-all of development I'd still be coding in assembly.


From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Mar  3 18:08:38 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 15:08:38 -0800
Subject: Numeric array of objects
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f@posting.google.com>

You create a 1-D Numeric array of n floats with

x = zeros(n,Float)

How do you create a Numeric array of n instances of class 'xy', where
for example xy is defined as follows:

class xy:
    def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

I want the elements of the array to be initialized to the default
value of xy, (0.0,0.0). I have read the Martelli's explanation on p309
of the book "Python in a Nutshell", but I still don't get it.


From ralf at tecont.de  Mon Mar  8 17:31:23 2004
From: ralf at tecont.de (Ralf Muschall)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:31:23 +0100
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
 __builtins__
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
	<6ee58e07.0403051620.40d3b42@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84hdwz0y4k.fsf@tecont.de>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) writes:

> Setup a test directory with data files and in the setUp method copy
> the items from the directory to a temporary directory. Do the tests
> with the temporary directory and remove it in the tearDown method.

> This is the simplest case to avoid strange effects.

It might fail in two cases that come to my mind:

1. "/lost/file1.mp3": ((33188, 884738L, 774L, 1, 0, 0, 1463L,
     1054331223, 991209287, 1054333751), "File content"),

   being replaced by

   "/lost/file1.iso": ((33188, 884738L, 774L, 1, 0, 0, 2147483648L,
     1054331223, 991209287, 1054333751), "File content"),

   (with stat(thingy)[6] being the size)

2. if absolute pathnames are relevant (e.g. for OS administration).

Ralf
-- 
GS d->? s:++>+++ a+ C++++ UL+++ UH++ P++ L++ E+++ W- N++ o-- K- w--- !O M- V-
PS+>++ PE Y+>++ PGP+ !t !5 !X !R !tv  b+++ DI+++ D?  G+ e++++ h+ r? y?


From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar  6 16:16:10 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:16:10 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <roy-4D429A.16161006032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>,
 "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote:

> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)

Working around the lack of "goto" in a language is kind of like trying 
to figure out how to swim without a piano strapped to your back.  There 
are lots of ways to do it, and even the worst of them is better than the 
alternative.

> (1) deeply nested loops
> 
> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>     if (/* some test */) goto END;
> 
> END: /* continue */;

I've found two general solutions to the breaking out of a deeply nested 
loop.  One possibility is to factor the loop out into its own function, 
and break out of it with a return:

def findTheHiddenThing ():
   for k in range (10):
      for j in range (10):
         for i in range (10):
            if f (i, j, k) == theThingWeWant:
               return

Another is to use an exception:

try:
   for k in range (10):
      for j in range (10):
         for i in range (10):
            if f (i, j, k) == theThingWeWant:
               raise WeFoundIt ("in the last place we looked")
except WeFoundIt:
   whatever

Neither of these ideas are particularly Python specific.  The first 
method works in pretty much any procedural language.  The second only 
works in languages that support exceptions (in some languages, exception 
processing is fairly expensive, so it may not be universally acceptable).

Assuming both methods are equally feasable in your environment, the 
choice of which to use may be driven by style, or one may just be a 
better fit to your problem domain.

On the other hand, if you're doing linear searches of multi-dimensional 
coordinate spaces, that may be a hint that you need to rethink how 
you're solving the problem.  A different data structure may not only 
eliminate the deeply nested loop, but could well be significantly faster 
to execute.

> and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> 
> BEGIN:
> for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;

I'm going to go out on a limb on this one and say that if you need to 
begin a loop from the beginning again, something is probably wrong with 
how you're trying to solve the problem.  What you've really written is a 
nested while/for loop.  In C, it should look something like this:

while (1)
   for (n = 0; n < 20; ++n)
      if (some test)
         break

and now you're back to the same sort of "breaking out of a nested loop" 
issue like you had above, with the same likely solutions.


From edwin at localhost.localdomain  Sat Mar 13 22:56:01 2004
From: edwin at localhost.localdomain (Edwin Young)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 19:56:01 -0800
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
Message-ID: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>


Hi,

I'm writing a fractal-generating program in a mixture of C and
Python. Python handles all the GUI parts using PyGTK. After finishing
the calculations, I have a buffer containing the RGB data of the
image. I can display this fine on screen using draw_rgb_image. Now I
need to save the image data into a file. gtk.gdk.Pixbuf.save() would
be ideal, but I'm stumped trying to create a Pixbuf from my image
data. In C, gdk_pixbuf_new_from_data would be ideal, but I can't find
the PyGTK equivalent. There's new_from_xpm_data() and new_from_inline(),
but those seem to require translating the image into a text format,
which seems slow and kind of backwards.

I'd prefer to avoid introducing a dependency on PIL or Numeric.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
--
Edwin


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 10:13:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:13:18 -0500
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
In-Reply-To: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>
References: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Aa2dnf3OEf6SBNXdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

chad wrote:

> I am new to Python.

And XML?

> I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and write only
> those between the tags to a text file.  In other words, if I have an
> XML document like so:
> 
> <tag1>This</tag1>
>     <tag2>is</tag2>
>        <tag3>a</tag3>
> <tag1>test</tag1>
> 
> I need to write "This is a test" to a text file.  How do I achieve
> this?    Thanks.

Note that what you have above is _not_ an XML file.  That is, it looks 
like XML but it's not well-formed, as it doesn't have a single enclosing 
  element.

You probably meant that just as a quickie example, but in case that's 
like what your actual data format looks like, you'll have trouble using 
any of the Python XML parsers.  (The fix is pretty trivial though.)

-Peter


From kkrueger at example.edu  Fri Mar 26 11:47:21 2004
From: kkrueger at example.edu (Karl A. Krueger)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:47:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mod_python exception catching, other repetitious per-page actions
Message-ID: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>

I'm in the middle of refactoring a small mod_python Web application,
which uses the Publisher handler.  This application is currently a
single main Python file (which loads several other files as modules)
with several function entry points for the different pages in the
application.

(The application is a tool to allow staff members here to request
firewall port openings for their servers.  Thus there is a page (and
function) for "view my servers", "add a server", "add a service to a
server", and so forth.  Each of these is a function in the published
file.)

One thing I would like to do is factor all of the top-level database
connecting, top-level exception handling, and error-page generation into
a single place.  Whenever an exception occurs not trapped locally --
including an error connecting to the database -- I want to generate an
HTML error page instead of throwing the stacktrace at the user.

Currently this means that every function is one big try/except block
where the except block calls a TypesetErrorPage() function.  Also
repeated are the function calls to set up the database backend
connection and to set up some per-user globals:

def mainpage(apache_request, some_cgi_arg):
	try:
		_connect_to_database()
		# other repetitious stuff here
		_do_user_specific_stuff(apache_request)
		#
		# specific code here
		#
	except Exception, err:
		return _TypesetErrorPage(err)

def addserverpage(apache_request, some_cgi_arg, another_arg):
	try:
		_connect_to_database()
		# other repetitious stuff here
		_do_user_specific_stuff(apache_request)
		#
		# specific code here
		#
	except Exception, err:
		return _TypesetErrorPage(err)

I'd like to factor this repetition out.  However there does not seem to
be a straightforward way to do it -- the connect_to_database() could be
done at the module level (i.e. outside of any function), but this might
have problems if the Apache instance persists long enough between
requests for the database to time out.

One thing I have considered is to handle _all_ the pages through a
single function, which would look up the specific pages by name:

PAGES = { "mainpage" : mainpagefunc, "addserverpage" : addserverfunc }

def page(apache_request, which_page, *args):
	try:
		connect_to_database()
		# other repetitious stuff here
		do_user_specific_stuff(apache_request)
		return PAGES[which_page](req, *args)  # call the real page
	except Exception, err:
		return TypesetErrorPage(err)

... but this has the problem that it sacrifices the argument name
matching which is a major useful feature of mod_python Publisher.  I'm
not sure if keyword args are exactly the Right Thing either.  It also
would make the URLs even longer than they already are, though I can
kludge that with Apache URL rewriting rules.  (Bleah.)

I feel like I want a Lisp macro, but that's a topic I shouldn't even
invoke.  Forget I said that.  :)

Any thoughts?

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger at example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:46:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:46:37 -0800
Subject: Import config into global space?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403311540.61b2bdf2@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>
	<c4dh8i$q5s$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0403310820.4d46c8dd@posting.google.com>
	<c4f5ob$fsb$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0403311540.61b2bdf2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4flf0$1b2$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Yes, that's what I thought, one of the reasons I'm going to go with
> the config.variable syntax after all.
> 
> I'm moving to the wxWidgets 2.5 way of using the wx namespace too
> (e.g. wx.ListCtrl instead of wxListCtrl).

That's good, because wxListCtrl won't be available in 2.5, wx.ListCtrl 
will be.  *wink*

  - Josiah


From wweston at att.net  Thu Mar 18 09:29:57 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:29:57 GMT
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <Fni6c.45718$H44.836818@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

John Slimick wrote:
> I want to do a little Tkinter in my 1 credit 
> python practicum, but I am having problems
> getting everything installed correctly.
> A sample of the problem is below:
> 
> 
> ------------------- The python source, test.py ------------------
> from graphics import *
> 
> def main():
>     win = GraphWin("My Circle", 100, 100)
>     c = Circle(Point(50,50), 10)
>     c.draw(win)
> 
> main()
> 
> ----------- result of $python test.py --------------------------
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 1, in ?
>     from graphics import *
>   File "/home/slimick/cs198/graphics.py", line 85, in ?
>     import Tkinter
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
>   ImportError: No module named _tkinter
> 
> ------------result of $locate _tkinter ------------------------------
> 
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp.exp
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Modules/_dummy_tkinter.c
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Modules/_tkinter.c
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PC/os2vacpp/_tkinter.def
> /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PCbuild/_tkinter.dsp
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I would appreciate any help on this.
> 
> And, thanks in advance
> 
> john slimick
> slimick at pitt,edu
> university of pittsburgh at bradford

john,
    Go here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-September/181603.html
wes



From Robert.Schmitt at cellzome.com  Fri Mar 26 13:09:14 2004
From: Robert.Schmitt at cellzome.com (Robert.Schmitt at cellzome.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:09:14 +0100
Subject: DB logging module for Python logging package available
Message-ID: <OFA268F00F.C3FD074D-ONC1256E63.00635FAE-C1256E63.0063C96F@cellzome.de>

... just wrote this since I needed it. If it is of any use for anyone, you
can download it at
        http://www.geocities.com/rfs4711/dblogging.zip

Cheers,

Robert F Schmitt, Cellzome AG
Meyerhofstr. 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany
Tel + 49 6221 137 57 405, Fax + 49 6221 137 57 202
www.cellzome.de
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- George W. Bush

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W. Bush




From nospam_yschandra at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 02:13:00 2004
From: nospam_yschandra at yahoo.com (Subhash Chandra)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:43:00 +0530
Subject: Scope question
Message-ID: <c2p3fc$1uqag0$1@ID-64892.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

How can I make counter variable in function foo reference to global counter 
variable in the following code. Generally C programmers tend to write code like 
that I am looking for simple way to do it in python.

--- BEGIN ---
counter = 0

def foo():
   if counter < 10:
     print "count = ", counter
     counter += 1

foo()
--- END ---

regards,
Subhash
--
Remove "nospam_" for direct reply


From claude.triboulot at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 09:14:45 2004
From: claude.triboulot at hotmail.com (claude)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:14:45 +0100
Subject: monitoring a directory
References: <mailman.382.1080205904.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4063d360.17864375@news.versatel.de>
Message-ID: <c3upem$il4$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

Is there a way to find the user who modify the file ?

"Martin Bless" <m.bless at gmx.de> a ?crit dans le message de
news:4063d360.17864375 at news.versatel.de...
> [Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk>]
>
> >The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the
>
> Hhm, looks like "win32file" expertise is around ;-)
>
> Shameless question plugin: Is there a way to find the realname of a
> file on Windows? In those times of DOS there was a DOS call/interrupt
> "Truename" that would return the real name of a files. This is
> important if you have created additional drives via the "SUBST"
> command.
>
> I'm still looking for a foolproof way to ensure that two files are
> different on windows. There are times where I'd like to avoid deleting
> the last valid copy of a file ...
>
> mb - Martin Bless
>
>




From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 29 19:42:52 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:42:52 +0100
Subject: Britney Spears nude
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com> <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
	<c49rqo$2ebolk$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4aeen$2fp91b$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1080607371.97814.0@iris.uk.clara.net>

In message <c4aeen$2fp91b$1 at ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>, RPM1 wrote:

> My wife , (yes my wife not me), was watching
> a program on TV about this girl who was having
> plastic surgery to look just like B. Spears.  It seems
> she hadn't inherited the same kind of attributes that
> the base class has so she was having them overridden
> to match the base class.  So my question is which
> instance of B. spears are we talking about?

Don't know, but it explains the single title, 'OOPs, I did it again'...

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From wweston at att.net  Tue Mar 30 08:54:09 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:54:09 GMT
Subject: Python2.3 on RedHat 7.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.78.1080592866.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.78.1080592866.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5_eac.1284$He5.30276@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Sebastian Knoop-Troullier wrote:
> I'm having a lot of trouble with Python2.3 on Redhat 7.3
> As this is a requirement for the new unstable versions of TMDA I am
> trying to get this up and running. Is anybody else running
> Python2.3 on RedHat 7.3? I am unable to find an RPM that will install
> on my RedHat.
> 
> I run into the following scenario described in the Python FAQ. I know
> this is probably a little off-topic and should go into a Python list
> but I figured maybe somebody here has come across the same problem:
> 
> Q) I'm trying to build the RPMS, but I get: 
> RPM build errors:
>     File not found by glob:
> /var/tmp/python2.3-2.3.3-root/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so*
> A) You need to have the Tk development package installed. This package
> is usually called "tk-devel", and can be obtained from the same place
> that you normally find packages for your system. 
> 
> My problem is that I cannot find a tk-devel package for RedHat 7.3
> either. This has been haunting me for a few days now ;)
> 
> -Sebastian
> 
> 

Sebastian,

    I had this problem. See:

http://www.talkaboutprogramming.com/group/comp.lang.python/messages/290343.html

wes



From j.r.gao at motorola.com  Tue Mar  9 00:19:58 2004
From: j.r.gao at motorola.com (J.R.)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:19:58 +0800
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2jk9g$j75$1@newshost.mot.com>


"Jim Benson" <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hi,
>
>   Does anyone know of a source code editor for python
> that has the following characteristics:
>
> 1) Freeware (desired)
> 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)
> 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions
>    data elements in the file. (required)
>

drpython http://drpython.sourceforge.net




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 10:14:17 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:14:17 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <tyfisgx6wfo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<tyfisgx6wfo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <16479.713.433613.211949@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> - Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self"
    >> in next versions of Python.

    Jacek> That would be acceptable ...

I suggest you see if PyChecker already does this.

    >> - In a future major version of Python, 3 or 4, self becomes a keyword
    >> and a first parameter named otherwise implies a class method (I
    >> understand it could mean a lot of changes in code not using self).

    Jacek> ... that would (IMHO) not.

(I'm not picking on Jacek here.  I just chose to reply to his post.)

Everybody seems to be fixated on how best to spell "make this function a
class or static method".  If that was all we were interested in, something
more syntacically restrictive would be fine.  That's not all PEP 318 allows
though.  It proposes syntax (and eventually semantics) for a general
function decorator capability.

I almost wish Python didn't already have staticmethod() and classmethod()
builtins so people wouldn't get so hung up on the most economical way to
spell them.

I suggest people google for

    site:mail.python.org python-dev PEP 318

and look at some of the other ideas people have had or examples proposed of
how to (ab)use this feature.  It's applicability is much broader than just
declaring methods to be "static" or "class".

Skip



From python473 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 23:38:05 2004
From: python473 at yahoo.com (John Howard)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 20:38:05 -0800
Subject: address a port
References: <9eabe547.0403232100.501b8bbe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.327.1080119662.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9eabe547.0403242038.4e453ae3@posting.google.com>

This is great. But what about win 98, win 95, xp, 2000?


Erik Heneryd <erik at heneryd.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.327.1080119662.742.python-list at python.org>...
> John Howard wrote:
> > Basic has the inp() statement for accepting data from a port accessed
> > from a memory location. Does python have a similar instruction?
> 
> No.  On Linux, you could either use the ioperm()/inb()/related macros 
> (see http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/ioport/ioport.html for a simple Python 
> wrapper) or read from /dev/port if you got that device compiled in - 
> this function reads a byte (you'll need read access to /dev/port):
> 
> def inb(port):
>      f = file("/dev/port")
>      f.seek(port)
>      value = ord(f.read(1))
>      f.close()
>      return value
> 
> spam = inb(0x378) # get byte from LPT1
> 
> More (general) info can be found in the Linux I/O port mini-HOWTO: 
> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/IO-Port-Programming.html
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> Erik Heneryd


From bluexcell at aol.com  Sat Mar  6 07:12:02 2004
From: bluexcell at aol.com (Bluexcell)
Date: 06 Mar 2004 12:12:02 GMT
Subject: Getting definition list
Message-ID: <20040306071202.18241.00000981@mb-m06.aol.com>

ok so i  use import to import a py file into my script.

is there a way to list all the defined function labels that exist in the
imported file?

ie if  i import a file called test and test has defined functions  called
myfunction1 my function2  myfunction3 etc    but i dont know  them,  is there a
method to list all the function labels in test and print them  as a listing

test.mfunction1
test.myfunction2
test.myfunction3

etc.






From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 20 14:04:40 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:04:40 -0700
Subject: Idle won't start - Update
References: <ecebe16b.0312141050.4a10fbba@posting.google.com>
	<8eh830tlh056hk21hm9v49m3qcinjv4pq9@4ax.com>
	<ekd930dhm5p9280hg41gbdu3heosq6f8tm@4ax.com>
	<0cq930hneq0bni65g6viroa86l5lj6ogt0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u44p50huqtd4vlkp057vmnanhep5tbhulj@4ax.com>

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:20:42 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:27:12 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>> This is getting scary.  I want my computer back !!.  I'll try a
>> complete system restore.
>> 
>> That works.  Python is happy.  Sigh !!!
>>
>	I was about to suggest checking either autoexec.bat (W9x) or the
>registry (via "My Computer/properties/advanced/environment variables")
>(NT) for some left-overs defining a TCL path...

IDLE has been working smoothly since banning Ruby from my system --
until today.  The symptoms are as usual - click on the IDLE icon and
you see an hour glass for about 30 seconds - then nothing.

I tried closing all other applications - same problem.

With the Task Manager, I see about 8 pythonw.exe processes running!!
I killed them all.  Now things seem back to normal.

The only thing I can think of that has been unusual in the last few
days is that I have been running IDLE simultaneously with Python from
the command line, and doing some testing in both windows of
computations involving illegal floating-point numbers ( inf and nan ).
This does not cause a crash, or anything beyond the usual traceback in
python.

I noticed that when I start Python from a command line, I get one
process (python.exe) in the Task Manager.  When I start Python using
IDLE, I get two processes (both named pythonw.exe).

I tried starting and closing multiple copies of IDLE.  This seems to
leave some zombie 'pythonw.exe' processes still alive.  Another
strange phenomenon - I always get two more 'pythonw.exe' processes
with each start of IDLE, but sometimes I get an extra window, and
sometimes not.  Closing the extra windows leaves one more
'pythonw.exe' than when I started, so they do accumulate.

-- Dave



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 22 22:08:13 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:08:13 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.261.1080004772.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405FAA1D.83576D05@alcyone.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> Indeed.  The pattern is always the same.  Some innocuous question or
> remark at the start, ...

Well, it's usually innocuous on its face, but look a little deeper and
you see that really he's just looking for a fight.  Take this thread as
a good example; it seems reasonable enough to ask for examples of
all-Python 3D applications, but even by his first reply we see where
he's coming from:  He's implicitly asserting that Python is unsuitable
for this and demanding that other people prove to him otherwise.  Blah
blah blah, scripting language, not a development language, yadda yadda
yadda.

(Whether it is or isn't suitable for this task is a separate question,
but this is a lousy way to start a fact-finding search.)

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Time is a storm in which we are all lost.
    -- George Bernard Shaw


From cedgmon at shaw.ca  Tue Mar 16 00:02:35 2004
From: cedgmon at shaw.ca (Craig Edgmon)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:02:35 -0800
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
In-Reply-To: <20040315205211.286098248.eric@zomething.com>
References: <20040315205211.286098248.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <1079413354.4024.4.camel@shrek>

On Mon, 2004-03-15 at 20:52, Eric @ Zomething wrote:

> benoit wrote
> 
> > I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
> > Are there libraries for this ?
> 
> I'd be interested to hear if there are some good Python libraries which work with the ".xls" file format.  Python does have CSV, if you can achieve what you want by exporting the data in comma separated format and then manipulating it.  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-csv.html
> 
> Also, there is pyXLWriter (though I haven't tried it): 
> http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=pyXLWriter&version=0.3a1
> 
> I have considered that there must be great Java libraries for MS Office within the OpenOffice.org suite.  It would be sweet to be able to wrap some algorithms from OOo source in Python, but I am not sure of the licensing, nor quite where in that source to find the treasure.
> 
> the .xls=>XML=>PDF (etc.) would be nice to have around...

I do remember I was doing a search for this a few weeks back. I faintly
remember someone mentioning using ODBC and or UNIXODBC for this.
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From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Mon Mar 29 04:43:11 2004
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (Alain Pointdexter)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 01:43:11 -0800
Subject: asyncore deficiencies
References: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>
	<c46607$cgk$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<99dce321.0403281816.4df96025@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8961ebe5.0403290143.4a2b9edb@posting.google.com>

My personal appreciation: asyncore is the most perfect combination of
hard work and incompetence i have ever seen in my life. It is so
anti-pythonic that it should get out of the standard distribution.

Just a personal opinion ...

dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) wrote in message news:<99dce321.0403281816.4df96025 at posting.google.com>...
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote...
> 
> > I agree that there should probably be some sort of asyncore2; I have a 
> > handful of boilerplate servers and clients that I use as a base any time 
> > I need something.  Optimally, an asyncore2 library would have simple 
> > clients and servers ready to be subclassed and customized as needed.
> 
> I would expect such things to be provided by modules that are
> dependant on asyncore, eg. as asynchat is. It's beyond the scope of
> what asyncore tries to do.
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to why you need to use a private map.  Most uses of 
> > private maps I've seen haven't added any sort of meaningful 
> > functionality that couldn't have been handled by the default map.  Yours 
> > could be an exception, but I'm still curious.
> 
> I don't need a private map, however given that the other option was a
> module variable, I naturally chose to provide my own to increase any
> required future flexibility. Indeed there is little, if anything to be
> gained from using your own map, but the option was there.
> 
> 
> > Again, you need to use asyncore.poll.
> 
> The poll function is not documented in the manual, nor do any
> docstrings suggest it is a public interface. Internally asyncore
> chooses which of poll, poll2, or poll3 to use inside loop, so calling
> these directly also bypasses some of asyncore's OS-independance
> functionality.
> 
> 
> > I've never used asyncore with UDP sockets, but maybe using 
> > "handle_connect = handle_read" in your subclass definition could be 
> > sufficient.
> 
> I see this as a workaround, and as such I think the point still
> stands. :)
> 
> 
> > That is exactly why polling is optional.  Select is available on every 
> > platform, but poll is faster on platforms that support it...
> 
> That is not true at all. If you are feeling investigative, quite a
> complete starting point would be <http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html>.
> There is lots of information there regarding various OS
> implementations async IO performance using poll, epoll, select, aio_*,
> etc.
> 
> 
> > The trick with doing this is that you end up interrupting other 
> > potentially ready sockets with handling an exception.  If you are 
> > feeling fiesty, I believe you can use the following and get the error 
> > propagated back up:
>  
> >      def handle_error(self):
> >          raise
> 
> That's a good point, but I don't have a problem restarting the poll
> after handling an exception, a) because it shouldn't happen very
> often, b) will probably mean shutting down the service rather than
> trying to continue, and c) exceptions are generally expensive special
> cases anyway.
> 
> If an exception is propogating up from the dispatcher, that means the
> dispatcher's method did not handle the exception, which should mean it
> gets passed back up the stack as it does with all other code,
> eventually ending up with a traceback print if it wasn't handled.
> 
> I dislike the handle_error method since it is essentially redundant in
> the face of Python's own exception handling mechanism. If a dispatcher
> wants it's own function to handle exceptions, it should wrap it's
> methods in a try block.
> 
> I assume handle_error was provided to allow graceful teardown of a
> dispatcher that was erroneous, but it isn't granular enough to be
> useful for tearing down complicated objects, given an exception that
> could have been generated anywhere in a couple of screenfuls worth of
> code, and an object that could be in any state.
> 
> 
> > > - Decoupling from socket objects: removal of the __getitem__ magic
> > > which causes screenfuls of abuse for a simple typo at the wrong stage
> > > in execution.
> > 
> > Infinite recursion in asyncore?  Yikes, I've not hit that bug before. 
> > Care to post some offending code?
> 
> It was entirely my fault, but here is the example anyway. :)
> 
>     py> from asyncore import *
>     py> class D(dispatcher):
>     ...     def __init__(self):
>     ...             self.foo
>     ...             dispatcher.__init__(self)
>     ... 
>     py> D()
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>       File "<stdin>", line 3, in __init__
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.3/asyncore.py", line 365, in __getattr__
>         return getattr(self.socket, attr)
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.3/asyncore.py", line 365, in __getattr__
>         return getattr(self.socket, attr)
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.3/asyncore.py", line 365, in __getattr__
>         return getattr(self.socket, attr)
> 
> 
> > One could even have a framework for registering even handlers...yikes, 
> > this is starting to sound like wxPython.  I don't know if that is a good 
> > idea or not.
> 
>     NAME  asyncore
>     Basic infrastructure for asynchronous socket service clients and
> servers.
> 
> I think that answers the question.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else interested in this? I have already made small
> modifications to the asyncore module to fix a few things, but nothing
> mentioned here. I could put together a proposed asyncore2 module if
> there was interest. I may do it, out of need, anyway. :)
> 
> 
> David.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Mar 17 22:22:41 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:22:41 -0500
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa at 4ax.com>,
 droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:

> I was looking for the simpliest way of doing it. This is what I tried
> to do. 
> 
> f = open('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt', 'r')
> counter = 0
> while True:
> 	line = f.readline()
> 	if len(line) == 0:
> 		break
> 	if line.find('customer'):
> 		counter = counter + 1
> 		print 'Found it ' + str(counter)

I cut-and-pasted the above onto my machine (just changed the pathname to 
/usr/share/dict/words).  It finds every line in the file!  The problem 
appears to be that the find() method returns -1 when there's no match, 
which tests as True.  Other than that, the code seems pretty reasonable.


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sun Mar 28 18:26:00 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:26:00 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>

They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one would 
be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people using spaces if they 
like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able to use tabs if I like. I 
can't see how it should make any difference to Python which you use so 
why not allow for personal preference?

>I'll just mention that there
>are ***very good***, that is ***extremely good***
>reasons why the Python standard is to use spaces for
>indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be
>removed in 3.0.
>




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:25:34 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:25:34 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
In-Reply-To: <868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>
Message-ID: <406B536E.2050508@mlug.missouri.edu>


>I find it surprising to see programmers arguing for top-posting.  They
>are arguing that exchanging the single author's time and brain cycles
>for the time and cycles of many readers is a good trade-off.  Perhaps
>they just feel their time is infinitely more valuable than anyone
>else's.  I'm sure every top-poster present can think of vendors who
>work from the point of view that their time and effort is more
>valuable than the user's.  The result of this philosophy is alienating
>to users of software AND articles.
>  
>
I follow more than 300 mailing lists on a regular basis (I get around 3 
gigs of mail a day just from these lists) and I much prefer people that 
top-post. I can click through messages with interesting topics and skim 
the relevant text without having to scroll anything down. So IMO it's 
more about saving the readers effort than saving the poster effort.

Of course the only people I really hate are those that quote text 
without quoting it.. so it's all on the same level and you can't tell 
what they wrote from what others have written. THAT drives me nuts.



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Mar  4 23:44:52 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:44:52 -0500
Subject: vim & python
In-Reply-To: <221dd125.0403041853.2c6eb5d6@posting.google.com>
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list@python.org>
	<221dd125.0403041853.2c6eb5d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040305044452.GA28056@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[sb]

> > > [...] but what about vim scripting with python? I can not find
> > > *anything* about it (no docs, books or tutorials)

> > Just do:
> >    :h python

> Thanks, but that is more like a very abbreviated tutorial.

I did not read it as a tutorial, but as a concise and useful reference.

> Where can I can the real documentation?  It seems like the python
> built into vim is different. [...] I want the real documentation for
> the "vim" module accessible from vim. What classes, functions, values
> are defined there, etc

The real documentation is the usual Python documentation, all that we
use outside Vim, plus the result of `:h python' for classes, functions
and values specific to Vim.  There is not much of them, but there is no
need for much either; what is provided is surely sufficient for a great
lot of applications.

> For example, doing

> :py import sys
> :py dir(sys)

> produces no output. Odd. Same with

> :py import vim
> :py dir(vim)

The same would not give you output in Python either (unless you run
Python in an interactive read-eval-print loop, like when you call Python
without arguments from an interactive shell).  However, you may use:

    :py print dir(sys)
    ...
    :py print dir(vim)

You have to ask for printing, if you want printing.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sun Mar 14 16:55:03 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:55:03 -0600
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
References: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net> <c302qi$3lj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4053daa0_1@themost.net> <c311kc$l1h$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4054d4be$1_1@themost.net>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c311kc$l1h$07$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Paul Watson wrote:
>
> > I did have not explained it clearly.  I want the user to specify a
string
>
> Seems it was clear enough, you only didn't recognize the answer :-)
>
> > that I will put between words in the output.  The user specified string
> > can
> > have escape sequences.  For example, the user wants to put a binary 1
> > (\001) between each output word.
> >
> > import sys
> > words = ['now', 'is', 'the', 'time']
> > print '\001'.join(words)        #this works
> > print sys.argv[1].join(words)   #this fails
>
> Change the above line to
>
> print sys.argv[1].decode("string_escape")
>
> s.decode("string_escape") returns a new string with all c-style escape
> sequences converted into the corresponding characters. This is an abuse -
> ahem, example of a general mechanism. Look for codecs if you want to learn
> more about it.
>
> Peter

Thank you.  I appreciate your help.  Yes, I missed it.  I will look at the
decode doc.  I expected that this was for converting character encodings
(codepages).  This does work under Python 2.3, and decode was available in
2.2.

However, I am in a Python 2.1 environment.  Do you know of any techniques
that would work under Python 2.1?




From atul.kshirsagar at firstlogic.com  Fri Mar 19 12:35:17 2004
From: atul.kshirsagar at firstlogic.com (Atul Kshirsagar)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:17 -0600
Subject: Python 2.3 problem with extention-embedding in multi-threaded and
	multi sub-interpreter environment
Message-ID: <095A307E4B8A1541B29248EABD4D4D4005E1CDF8@exchange-lax1.firstlogic.com>

I am embedding python in my C++ application. I am using Python *2.3.2* with
a C++ extention DLL in multi-threaded environment. I am using SWIG-1.3.19 to
generate C++ to Python interface.

Now to explain it in details,
1. Python initialization [Py_Initialize()] and finalization [Py_Finalize()]
is done in the *main* thread.
2. For each new thread I create a separate sub-interpreter
[Py_NewInterpreter()]. 
3. Using PyRun_String("import myModule"...) before execution of python
script, extention module 
   is imported.
4. Each thread executes *multiple* python script using PyEval_EvalCode()
using the class objects in
   my extention DLL.
5. Each sub-interpreter is destroyed [Py_EndInterpreter()] at the end of
that particular thread.

I am observing that;
As explained above when multiple threads are running. And as one of these
threads finishes, in other running threads I start getting 
"TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable" error on the methods called
on class objects in extention module. 

The same code *works fine* with Python 2.2.2.

I have found these links more or less talking about the same problem
migrating from 2.2 to 2.3.
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/038237.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-February/206851.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-January/204040.html

I *guess* what is happening is global variables are zapped to "NoneType"
when one thread finishes and other thread trying to access them through the
Python script (step 4.) this error is generated. But it *works* sometimes
when(*guess*) the running thread is at step 3. and by importing the  module
the global variables are re-initialized for "Type" information.

I tried using reload(myModule) to solve the problem but that is generating
big memory leak every time it is called.

Is this a know issue with 2.3 (interpreter?) ? Or is there a change for 2.3
in the way embedding should be done in a multi-threaded and
multi-sub-interpreter environment ?

Anybody for help ?
Thanks,
Atul




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Mar 13 22:51:54 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:51:54 -0600
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
In-Reply-To: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20040314035154.GA4832@unpythonic.net>

I'd agree that time.sleep(interval) should do the same thing on all
platforms when interval<0, but I'd rather see it always raise an
exception than sleep for 0 seconds.

I think this patch does what I suggest, but it's hard for me to tell
since my platform already raised an exception for sleep(-1).

Index: Modules/timemodule.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Modules/timemodule.c,v
retrieving revision 2.139
diff -u -r2.139 timemodule.c
--- Modules/timemodule.c	20 Nov 2003 01:44:59 -0000	2.139
+++ Modules/timemodule.c	14 Mar 2004 03:23:00 -0000
@@ -169,6 +169,10 @@
 	double secs;
 	if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "d:sleep", &secs))
 		return NULL;
+	if (secs < 0) {
+		errno = EINVAL;
+		return PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_ValueError);
+	}
 	if (floatsleep(secs) != 0)
 		return NULL;
 	Py_INCREF(Py_None);

Jeff
PS POSIX sleep(3) takes an unsigned argument, so there is no possible
out-of-range value



From gpul-traduccion-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es  Fri Mar 26 06:02:15 2004
From: gpul-traduccion-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es (gpul-traduccion-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:02:15 +0100
Subject: Your message to gpul-traduccion awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.3413.1080298935.315.gpul-traduccion@ceu.fi.udc.es>

Your mail to 'gpul-traduccion' with the subject

    Mail Delivery (failure gpul-traduccion at ceu.fi.udc.es)

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    SpamAssassin identified this message as possible spam

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://ceu.fi.udc.es/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm/gpul-traduccion/3a5e783f080c4990b2f9d6dab7b87f6d15cb22d3




From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Mar 26 19:44:37 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:44:37 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
Message-ID: <slrnc69hu7.a35.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018 at edtnps84>, D Martin wrote:
> 
> 3 solutions:
> 
> 1. Use spaces instead of tabs.  Hit the space bar yourself, or an editor
> that replaces tabs with spaces.

Which is exactly what he said you can't do with Prothon, since Prothon
has settled on tabs not spaces.

> 2. Include as a .py or text file instead of inline.

Which means that you can't post sample code interspersed with
discussion.

> 3. Get a different email program.

Sorry, you'll have to talk to the sysadmin about that.

Joe


From adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net  Sun Mar 14 19:35:11 2004
From: adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:35:11 GMT
Subject: Question about the email package
Message-ID: <3T65c.3667$GQ3.1622@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Is there a way to retrieve the message body using the email package? or is
the email package just for parsing mime formatted messages? or would I have
to parse the information retrieved from poplib myself. I have scanned the
entire documentation to no avail. googling only gained little.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adonis




From bigbinc at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 15 10:15:09 2004
From: bigbinc at hotmail.com (bigbinc)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 07:15:09 -0800
Subject: python xslt
Message-ID: <d1b33313.0403150715.74179085@posting.google.com>

http://4suite.org/index.xhtml 

Does this site work for anybody.  I am trying to get xslt libs for
python.  Is that the nly place?


From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 10 09:30:05 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:30:05 -0500
Subject: Not clear on what documentation means here [pxlpluker]
Message-ID: <404F266D.2090807@cfl.rr.com>

Not clear on what documentation means here.
What exactly does the underlined text mean. w & a obviously mean you are 
going to update the file.
So what does the + mean on w+ & a+ mean?
Also please could someone explain w+ truncating the file.
I may just be dense so please be patient :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Copy from python 2.3.3 help file]
file( filename [, mode [, bufsize ] ] )

Return a new file object (described earlier under Built-in Types). The 
first two arguments are the same as for stdio's fopen(): filename is the 
file name to be opened, mode indicates how the file is to be opened: 'r' 
for reading, 'w' for writing (truncating an existing file), and 'a' 
opens it for appending (which on some Unix systems means that all writes 
append to the end of the file, regardless of the current seek position).

Modes 'r+', 'w+' and 'a+' open the file for updating (note that 'w+' 
truncates the file). Append 'b' to the mode to open the file in binary 
mode, on systems that differentiate between binary and text files (else 
it is ignored). If the file cannot be opened, IOError is raised.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040310/db812599/attachment.html>

From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Sun Mar  7 12:06:54 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:06:54 -0500
Subject: import vs from module import : any performance issue?
In-Reply-To: <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <EEI2c.650$6y1.66787@news20.bellglobal.com>

Thanks to all that replied.  For anyone interested, I also found the 
following links useful:

- Fredrik Lundh provides sound advices in his `Importing Python 
Modules`_ note: http://www.effbot.org/zone/import-confusion.htm

- The section *Imports* of `PEP-8, Style Guide for Python Code`_ :
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html

- Also read `Importing * From a Package`_ in the Python Tutorial.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html#SECTION008410000000000000000

Pierre



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Mar 13 03:19:33 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:19:33 -0500
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
References: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <4052C415.8060007@rogers.com>

Kenneth McDonald wrote:
...

>Can anyone comment on the performance
>costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?
>  
>
They can become a significant fraction of total run-time, and often wind 
up showing as the heaviest methods in an entire application if they are 
used pervasively (i.e. every attribute of every object is a property).  
Even short runs of small systems so designed can give you 100s of 1000s 
of calls to an individual method.  OpenGLContext gets around this by 
defining an accelerator for the __get__ method of the field properties.  
At present BasicProperty doesn't have an equivalent accelerator (it has 
far more "hooks" in the get methods), but I'll likely wind up coding one 
eventually.

The real problem is the getters, by the way, by far the most common 
situation is where you just want to alter the value or the name of the 
dictionary key at which it is stored.  The setters tend to be far less 
frequently called in my experience, so you can leave them as python code 
quite readily.

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Mar 20 09:06:55 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:06:55 GMT
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3eY6c.37373$PY.33957@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Hugh Macdonald <hugh at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote:
> I'm calling a command from within a python script and I need to be
> able to both catch the output (stdout and stderr) from it and also
> have the PID (so that I can kill it)
>
> I can do one or other of these, but I can't find any way to do them
> both at the same time.
>
> So far, I've got the following options:
>
>
> To get the output from the command:
>
>>>> fdin, fdout, fderr = os.popen3(command)

To get stdout and stderr as separate pipes and also have the child's
PID, you want to use the Popen3 class from the popen2 module. See:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-popen2.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/popen3-objects.html

for details.

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Mar 30 23:25:00 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:25:00 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc69peu.j80.grey@dmiyu.org>
	<bb9be8890d95086418755c1b4699e676@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94BD414663750JanC@213.119.4.35>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> schreef:

> It's not a Microsoft problem.  I use a webmail interface (for
> email, not newsgroups), and regardless of which browser I use, 
> tabs are eliminated.

Read the HTML specs and you'll know why that happens.

> I'm not thinking it's a browser problem either.

No, your browsers follow the specs...

A solution would be to write a backend function that replaces whitespace 
(tabs, spaces) with the intended number of "space positions" encoded as 
&nbsp;

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 01:43:03 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:43:03 -0800
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403250505.302c828b@posting.google.com>
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<brg8c.18665$A_2.958214@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<f046efac.0403250505.302c828b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c437vl$e3b$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> This works !!! , thanks.
> but I would like to know something that
> i heard use of lambda function is not good !. So why it is not good,
> or in when we should not use lambda function.

There is nothing explicitly wrong with using lambda.  However, unless 
the lambda you are using is easy to understand, you may not understand 
how or why it works later.  The lambda given to you works just fine, but 
if you are afraid of using lambdas, here you go:

def cmp_1(x,y):
     return cmp(x[1], y[1])

  - Josiah


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 14 04:03:08 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:03:08 -0800
Subject: embed python
References: <c2pi2o$17dm$2@news.riken.go.jp>
	<slrnc51dig.f0l.peterstrempel@peter-strempels-computer.local>
	<c311q8$1vah$1@news.riken.go.jp>
Message-ID: <40541FCC.A001AA99@alcyone.com>

Marc Schellens wrote:

> ok, but why everybody writes #include "Python.h" instead of
> #include <Python.h> ? The latter form is the corrcet one for
> header files wich are not part of the actual project.

It's a minor point.  The <...> notation is for system headers, the "..."
notation is for non-system headers, but will fall back to searching
system headers as well.

If it works at all -- and you haven't chosen deliberately conflicting
filenames -- then it doesn't matter which one you use.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Sometimes we're blinded by the light / If we'd only use our eyes
    -- Oleta Adams


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 22 17:36:29 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:36:29 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3n5ta$288su1$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7c64j1-qij.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> > In general
> > all Java bytecode is expected (but not required) to share the
> > main system JVM.
>
> Afaik, each app will start its own copy of a JVM.

I am not talking about runtime processes, I am talking about installed
files.  The whole point of Java is that you only need one JVM installed
and all apps can use it.  By that I mean one physical copy on the
disk.  Now some apps find that the JVM isn't as version compatible
as they expect and do install a private copy.  But my statement
above still remains true.

> Like I mentioned earlier, I am aware of 'freezing' but having to bundle
> an interpreter with every app is exactly what I would rather avoid...

Why?  Using Windows as an example, the Python interpretter DLL is
974Kb.  The JRE VM is about 1.1MB.  Both Python and Java need a number
of other DLLs, but I believe the Python list is significantly smaller
(a lot more base functionality is built into that Python DLL than is
in the JRE DLL).

> What would be great is to not have to choose between a Windows,
> Mac or Linux or XXX download (like in a proper Java app).

Why?  That then means the user can't use their normal system method
for adding and removing programs and instead have to do things
manually by copying JAR files and potentially other extensions
around.

And here is an example of what really happens in the Java world.
One of the most popular projects written in Java on SourceForge
is Azureus:

http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=84122&package_id=88270

Note platform specific installers.  You can also do things manually.
Click on the platform specific Howtos on http://azureus.sf.net/

It does also let you copy the jar file manually, but that then means
you have to manually deal with renames, uninstalls, backups, integrity
checking etc, not to mention having to make your own shortcuts.

> But you're not saying that .pyc files contain profiling information,
> right?  Because that is what it's sounding like...

No.  I am saying they *could* contain it.  They are an implementation
detail of one version of one implementation of a conforming Python
interpretter.  It is free to put *anything* it wants in there including
profiling information and your favourite colour, or just random numbers.

> Yes, this is the main difference between Java and Python.  Python
> prefers the source to be present, Java doesn't care.

Java is a compiled language, just like C/C++ etc.  Python is an interpretted
language without a compilation step.  Some Python implementations
do not require the source to present as they can use the results of
their own earlier tokenization and parsing of Python source.  But that
is implementation specific and not *specified* or *required* anywhere.

> > With the addition of zip imports in Python 2.3,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you just said earlier that
> zip imports predated Java by several years and now you're saying
> they've just been added to Python 2.3?

No, I said that PYTHONPATH in Python predated CLASSPATH in Java by
several years.  What they can point to has changed in both implementations
over time.

I would recommend you start this thread again, but actually state what
your goals and constraints are, rather than trying to retrofit/force something
(CPython bytecode) as a solution to whatever the unstated problem is.

For the *vast* majority of cases, end users couldn't care less what programming
language or environment is used for any application they get.  They certainly
don't want to have to go around chasing random environments, interpretters,
extensions etc, and manually deal with extra components, upgrades, uninstalls
etc.  They just want to go ahead and use the normal tools for their OS and
be as productive as quickly as possible with the application.

The installer generators solve this problem really well.  In many cases
they even offer some obfuscation of code if used with particular interpretters.
They are also fairly compact.

For example my project includes the code, many images, help files (two diffent
formats), some auxiliary binaries, all required libraries and the Python interpretter
etc in 5MB.  Azureus ships as a 3.2MB installer, but that excludes the JRE
which is a seperate 15MB download.

Note that the full Python environment (which is way closer to the JDK and even
includes an IDE, debugger etc) is a 9.3MB download.

In the Java world, there are two issues that result in a certain way of thinking.
One is that you know your code is supposed to run on any JVM.  The second
is that the JVM is a large download.  Consequently this leads to the mindset
of trying to use one installed JVM for all apps, and doing some manual
configuration to get things working.

Python isn't Java, and doesn't have this mindset.  The Python mindset is
to make things as easy and logical as possible, especially without users
(or developers!) having to be aware of implementation details.

Roger




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 04:55:33 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:55:33 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <mk1060hrj6hvf0c1tbkk63j3r36fs81mfq@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:39:19 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

>Come to think of it, the verbose example with "has" becomes (assuming a
>shorter decorator name):
>
>    def foo(x has sig(int), y has sig(float)) has returns(int):

<snip>

>(No, I'm not seriously proposing decorators on parameters at this point.)

Damn - I thought it was a cool idea!

After all, in implementation terms it means little more than a few
extra statements at the top of the function - apart from being more
clearly associated with the call parameters in the definition, there
is nothing much new.

I'd just like to assert that more than one decorator may be needed,
perhaps in cases such as...

  def foo ( x [accepts(int), inrange(0,100)] ) [returns(int)] :

And assuming that these are mainly self-documentation and aids to
debugging and testing, it could be quite useful to get rid of most of
the overhead by perhaps having an option to ignore specified
decorators at compile time.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 07:56:24 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:56:24 -0600
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <20040309044403.GA30769@spawar.navy.mil>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<20040309044403.GA30769@spawar.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <20040309125623.GA19594@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 08:44:03PM -0800, seberino at spawar.navy.mil wrote:
> Jeff
> 
> Thanks.  What about sockets??  If we
> hardwire child processes to have a fixed ip address
> and port then I can communicate with a socket right?
> 
> Are sockets better or worse than your idea?  Why/Why not?

Once established, you're not likely to notice a difference between an
os.pipe() and a stream socket.

Some differences:

Each end of a socket is typically open for reading *and* writing,
while an os.pipe() is unidirectional.  A socketpair(2) are
"indistinguishable", which I believe means they can both read and
write.  However, socketpair is not in os or socket on my version of
Python, so you face writing additional code if you need this
functionality.

If you use any scheme in which one process creates a listening socket
and another process connects to it, instead of creating both ends and
passing them to the children, the major problem you now have to worry
about is whether *someone else* connects to the first child before the
second child can do so.  The consequences of this problem can range from
a simple DoS to theft of data or execution of hostile code, depending
on what the listening application does.

I'd use an os.pipe() if it's not clearly inadequate, but if you have any
concerns then you should find a way to abstract out the exact nature of
the inter-process communication so that you could establish it in
multiple ways.

Jeff



From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 19 15:15:11 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 12:15:11 -0800
Subject: converting string to dictionary
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403191215.3e3c72e8@posting.google.com>

Hi,
 suppose i have dictinary as below :

  a={'jack':'monica','mark':'alice','jeff':'jeni'}

  i am storing this dictionary into the database where it is converted
to string of the form :
    '{'jack':'monica','mark':'alice','jeff':'jeni'}'

now i want to convert this string into dictionary.  

how can i do this ?

is there any way to do this ?

thanks,


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Mar 25 08:31:16 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:31:16 -0600
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403250459.2e662035@posting.google.com>
	(ketulp_baroda@yahoo.com's
	message of "25 Mar 2004 04:59:55 -0800")
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.336.1080136535.742.python-list@python.org>
	<f046efac.0403250459.2e662035@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2y8ppvysb.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "ketulp" == ketulp baroda <ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> writes:

    ketulp> I like ur idea but this will work for only when inner list
    ketulp> has only two elements. if inner list has five elements and
    ketulp> i want to sort the whole list by 3rd element then how can
    ketulp> i do this ?

The general approach is to arrange the elements in the order you want
them sorted, sort them, and then revert to original order.  So if you
have 5 elements, and you want them sorted by the 3rd, put the 3rd
first.  If any two of the first elements are the same, the second
element of the list will break the tie, and so on.

Supposing you want to sort by the 3rd element, and you don't care
about the relative order of the other fields

  # swap the first an 3rd elements
  tmp = [ (e[2], e[1], e[0], e[3], e[4]) for e in seq]
  tmp.sort()
  # swap them back
  seq = [ (e[2], e[1], e[0], e[3], e[4]) for e in tmp]

If you care about performance, you might want to test this against a
custom comparison func passed to sort.  My guess is that this will
win.


You can generalize this to N tuples where you want to filly specify
the sort order.  If memory is not a problem, it's easiest to create a
new list of 2 tuples.  The first element of the list is your reordered
N tuple, the second element of the list is your original N tuple which
you save and extract after the sort.

    seq = [(1,2,3,4,9), (-1,-2,2,4,1), (12, 3, -1, 0,12)]
    order = 3,2,0,1,4

    ordered = [ [ e[ind] for ind in order] for e in seq]
    tmp = zip(ordered, seq)
    tmp.sort()
    seq = [ seq for ordered, seq in tmp]


If memory is an issue and you don't want to create a duplicate of your
entire list in memory, you can work out the indexes to restore the
original tuple order.  

JDH



From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 01:05:26 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 22:05:26 -0800
Subject: Short program to dis-allow CVS commits if no comment is supplied
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0403112205.4fb9f92d@posting.google.com>

Granted this only stopps the "forgetfull".

I tested it against the following clients, all of which supply a
DIFFERENT "no message" string.
 
WinCVS 1.3.14.1 Beta 14 ( Build 1 )
TortioseCVS
some MacClient
Eclipse 3.0 ( cvs built in client )

add this file to $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/checkoutlist

then add 

.* $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/CVSRequireComment.py

to  $CVSROOT/CVSROOT/verifymsg 




# Filename = CVSRequireComment.py

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys

def main():
    # // args[0] is script name
    # // args[1] is temp file name
    # // stdin contains long log message from cvs

    # // these are for debugging what is actually being suppiled
    # // to this script
    #sys.stderr.write( 'sript name        = ' + sys.argv[0] + '\n' )
    #sys.stderr.write( 'message temp file = ' + sys.argv[1] + '\n' )
    #sys.stderr.write( 'stdin             = "' + sys.stdin.read() +
'"\n' )

    try:
        logString = open( sys.argv[1] ).read()
        logString = logString.strip()
        #sys.stderr.write( 'logString = "' + logString + '"' )
    except:
        sys.stderr.write('No log message file found')

    # // don't allow commits to files of the following type
    if logString.find( '.class'):
        sys.stderr.write( '.class files are not allowed in the
repository' )
        sys.exit(1);
    # // this is what WinCVS sends in when no message is supplied
    # // version 1.3.14.1 Beta 14 Build 1 actually sends in 'no
message\n'
    # // so I decided to do startswith() to handle the case if the \n
gets removed
    # // eclipse's integrated cvs support uses '*** empty log message
**'
    # // so again I use startswith() to detect those
    # // tortoise just sends in a carrige return or line feed or
something
    # // that is what the logString.strip() is for above
    if ( logString.startswith( 'no message' ) ) or (
logString.startswith( '***' ) ) or ( not logString ) or ( len(
logString ) == 0 ):
        sys.stderr.write('No comment was suppiled\n')
        sys.stderr.write('You must supply a ** useful ** comment!\n' )
        sys.stderr.write('A concise explaination of what was done or a
bug id is ok\n')
        sys.exit(1)
    else:
        #sys.stderr.write( 'Thanks for supplying a comment' )
        #sys.stderr.write('Comment == "' + logString + '"\n')
        sys.exit(0)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 16 18:00:04 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:00:04 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote:

> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote 
>
>> >>> x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
>> >>> y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
>> >>> x is y
>>  True
>> >>> x = 'a b'
>> >>> y = 'a b'
>> >>> x is y
>>  False

And you get different results in different contexts:
In [17]: def f():
   ....:     x = 'a b'
   ....:     y = 'a b'
   ....:     return x is y
   ....: 
In [18]: f()
Out[18]: True

> Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is unspecified
> and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.

No, it's entirely specified. 'is' is 'is the same object'. The
implementation-specific part is in the *creation* of the immutable
object: when you specify 'akdijfkdienlskfi' in your code twice, the
interned object is used the second time -- so you actually only have
one object. In my example above, the compiler knew 'a b' was
duplicated, so it only has one copy of 'a b' stored in the function object.

> Maybe one could redefine "is" on immutables as follows: for strings
> and numbers it acts as "==", for tuples it acts as componentwise "is".
> That would be a more useful operator IMHO.

Why? If what you need is equality, and not object identity, use '=='.

Personally, almost all my uses of 'is' are of the form 'x is None' or
'x is not None'.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 17:31:11 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:31:11 -0600
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16471.32815.749721.217003@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> Sorry to follow up to my own post, but unions also create type
    >> unsafety.

    Roy> Of course you can.  Given C's roots as a high level assembly
    Roy> language, why would you expect anything else?

Nope.  But the user asked if C++ was type safe.  The presence of unions
indicates that it's not, at least in some situations.

    Roy> I was once asked on an interview how I would tell, inside of a C
    Roy> program, if I was on a big endian or a small endian machine.  I
    Roy> said I'd create a union of a long and a char[4], set the long equal
    Roy> to 1, and see which char it showed up in.  The interviewer looked
    Roy> shocked, thought about it for a while, and finally said something
    Roy> like, "yeah, I guess that would work".

Sure.  There are plenty of reasons to use unions.  They can be a
double-edged sword though.

Skip



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 17:09:29 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:09:29 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com><1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com><roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com><58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com><c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04><c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
	<mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <temac.74866$cx5.61050@fed1read04>

Goodbye.

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list at python.org...
> What is 'this'?  Who is 'you'?  Where is the original suggestion?  What
did
> who say what is fragile?
>
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
> news:1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284 at fed1read04...
> > I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
> > with a function like a closure of sorts?
> >
> > In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs
> ands
> > or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?
> >
> > You say fragile.  What breaks?
>
> Trying to read cryptic top-posted comments that require me to spend
minutes
> trying to find the most like referent in order to make any sense is too
> much work for me.  I won't do it.  Good bye.
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>
>




From francisgavila at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 14:37:14 2004
From: francisgavila at yahoo.com (Francis Avila)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:37:14 -0000
Subject: Initializing Member Variables
References: <c2i9vi$mip$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <20040308143642868-0500@news.shentel.net>

In <c2i9vi$mip$1 at news01.intel.com> Scott Brady Drummonds wrote:
> Hi, everyone,
> 
> I'm a Python novice and just diagnosed a problem that is confusing me.  
> I wrote a class that looks like this:
>
> class Keys:
>   __dict = {}
> 
>   def __init__(self, key):
>     self.__dict[key] = key
>     print('keys are now: %s' % self.__dict.keys())

..

> Maybe this isn't strange for a Python developer, but it sure is for me.  
> I thought that the "__dict = {}" line after the class declaration was 
> supposed to initialize that member variable for each object.  

In Python, class is an object. (This is by no means unusual among OO 
languages.)  So __dict, __init__, basically anything defined at the 
first level of indentation after the 'class :' line is a member of the 
class object pointed to by the class's name.

untested code:

>>> class A:
.. 	aName={}
..
>>> one = A()
>>> two = A()
>>> one.aName is two.aName
True
>>> {} is {}
False
>>>

Of course, this is more annoying to test with your class because you 
make dict private.  Unless you have a very good reason, don't do that (
you can get around it anyway).  One underscore is enough.

> Obviously, that's not happening.  Instead, that variable is retaining 
> its value from one object to the next, like a static member variable.  
> For what it's worth, it seems that this static variable behavior is 
> not observed when using scalar variables. Just with dictionaries.

You need to be introduced to Python's name-binding concepts, and purge 
yourself of this "variable" idea. :)

This may help:
http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html

But I'll summarize.

In Python, you have not variables, but names.  Names point to objects (
that's all names do).  Objects can possess (as in "hold", not "be called 
by").  But objects themselves have no intrinsic name.

So:
>>> a = [] # a name pointing to a list object
>>> b = a 

b points not to a (you can't point at names) but to the object pointed 
to by a.  The name 'b' is "bound" to the list object.

The = is the "binding" keyword.  Note, *keyword*, not operator. (Ok, 
it's not listed as a keyword, but it's not listed as an operator, either.) 
You might have noticed you can't overload it. That's why.

Continuing on...

>>> b.append(1) # we modify the object b points to.
>>> a # but a still points to the same object, now modified.
[1]
>>> a is b
True
>>> vars() # the current namespace, i.e. name:object pairs.
{'__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__name__': '__main__
', 'b': [1], '__doc__': None, 'a': [1]}
>>> 

Some subtlety arises because in Python, some objects are mutable, others 
immutable.  If its immutable, then whenever you might think you're 
pointing to the same object, you're probably pointing to a newly-created 
object (e.g., string concatenation or slicing makes new strings, 
addition makes new integers, etc.).  Not always though, because if you 
"intern" the object (using intern()), then Python checks if one already 
exists (even if no name is bound to it) before creating a new one.  
Interned objects are immortal for this reason.

> Where have I gone wrong?  What is the purpose of that "initialization" 
> in the Keys class?  What is the correct was to initialize a class's 
> member variable and guarantee that it is properly initialized for all 
> objects?

No.  __init__ *alone* is responsible for initalizing them and __new__ is 
responsible for creating them (which you'll rarely need).  Python 
doesn't do any copying or other such magic when making an object from a 
class, so objects defined in a class possess a name pointing to only one 
object.  Instances of that class get their own new name, but that name 
points to the same object, not a copy of it (unless either __new__ or __
init__ rebound the name, of course...).

So if you want a new member (i.e. a unique object) for every instance, 
create it in __init__:

class Keys:
	def __init__(self, key):
		self._dict = {}			# Do this.
		self._dict[key] = key
		print('keys are now: %s' % self._dict.keys())

-- 
Francis Avila


From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Mon Mar  1 17:11:24 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:11:24 -0600
Subject: Function calling another function 
Message-ID: <00c201c3ffda$2293c990$559ea380@D4XN6B41>

Hi all,

My question is surely a basic one, but somehow, I am not able to figure it out. 

I have a python file "satish.py" as follows:


        *satish.py*
def main():
    y()
    x()


def y():
    ..
    ..

def x():
    ...
    ..    
    y()

main()


When I execute satish.py, main() executes. I was expecting y() to execute first and then x() and then y() again. I wanted function x() to be capable of calling function y(). With this form of code, seems like function x() is not recognising function y(). Is there any sort of import or anything else that I can do here ?? 



Thanks in advance for your help

Regards,
Satish


SATISH KUMAR CHIMAKURTHI
Graduate Research Assistant
CFD GROUP
Mechanical Engineering
UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
Lexington
KENTUCKY - 40508
U.S.A

Email: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu
Mobile:859-420-9890
Office: 859-257-6336 X 80691
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From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 23 05:06:31 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:06:31 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3p277$vji$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
 > That rather depends on what you mean by "Python-like".


Oh dear...

It was not my intention to start this kind of debate, because I too have seen 
this before.  I'm not a troll, I actually consider GvR to be something of a 
minor deity.  :)  To me, Python is the procedural type language that comes 
closest to "elegance" IMO.  Or maybe its just because I'm lazy and will fall 
in love with any lean, terse, yet powerful language that comes along.  :) 
However, we all know that for some applications/purposes, Python isn't fast 
enough.  When speed isn't an issue, Python is my solution for now, because 
I've not found another language that I like as much.  I was merely curious if 
any of you may have known about some language currently in development, or 
some still-young and little-known language that was like Python and aiming for 
something like C/C++-ish performance.

By compile-to-binary, I meant create a binary executable in native machine 
code that does not involve an interpreter process (source or byte-code), and 
any substantial run-time overhead.  In other words my concern, is as always, 
about speed.

Concerning Perl/Lisp.  I'm using Python because it is *nothing* like those 
two.  :)  Lisp has good performance, and is a compilable language, I'm aware 
of that, but I just can't handle all the parentheses.  To the individual in 
the other thread who said people complaining about all the parentheses in Lisp 
are being ludicrous, well, just consider yourself lucky or superior that you 
can look at Lisp code for more than 30 minutes without getting a headache.  :) 
  To each their own, I need something else.

Concerning py2exe and freeze.  For the former, sorry, I'm a Linux guy, and in 
both cases, AIUI, these do not significantly increase performance, they just 
bundle the program's byte code, the interpreter, and the library bits the 
program uses in one executable file, but there is still an interpreter process 
going on.

As for Java, it reminds me too much of C/C++, and my preference is to work 
with a language that is open-source and an "open" standard.  For essentially 
the same reasons, I'm also not interested in C#.

Pyrex is very interesting, I've looked at Pyrex code.  The purpose of Pyrex 
however isn't to replace Python or the interpreter process, merely to optimize 
some parts of a Python program.  Even with heavy use of Pyrex, you still can't 
get away from the interpreter process, ie., Python will always have to be 
there, right?

The language shootout someone posted about was very interesting.  By my 
"criteria", Lua is the closet to what I'm looking for, unfortunately it seems 
to be just a slight variation of Python (byte-compiled-then-interpreted), and 
although it scores higher, it does so just barely (virtually identical on 
Linux).  For me, ocaml is the real surprise, it scores the same as gcc (on the 
Linux side, see the link below).  Its not Python-like, of course, but I'm 
surprised to see any other language score as well as gcc on a *nix system (gcc 
being born on *nix, being one of the oldest and most heavily used and 
beaten-on languages, as well as being optimized to death).

http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps2craps.html




From http  Fri Mar  5 15:48:37 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 12:48:37 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>
	<0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0@news.teranews.com>
	<c1jh40h7n4hd08gotbolvsho8je5ho1fi4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xptbrkoka.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
> >In any case, I think the one-liner posted satisfies nearly all of the
> >requirements.  
> >
> >import sys
> >def pr(*args): sys.stdout.write(''.join([str(i) for i in args]))

"import sys" makes it a two-liner, I think.


From whisper at oz.net  Wed Mar 17 18:54:50 2004
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:54:50 -0800
Subject: how to "source" a file?
In-Reply-To: <4g56c.11369$MC6.9352@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFAENFEFAA.whisper@oz.net>


> I have a set of configuration files that are expressed in
> python.  Users can set up triggers and callbacks as
> python function calls.
> 
> Some of these functions have become shared between several
> products, so I would like to factor out these functions into
> a separate file.
> 
> Can someone give me a clue as to the best way to proceed?
> I'm trying various combinations of import, but with no success.
> 
> Can someone loan me a clue?
> 
> Many TIA,
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> Mark Harrison
> Pixar Animation studios

Import should do what you need. What have you tried and what's not working?

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA 




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  9 14:49:58 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:49:58 -0600
Subject: emai - Multiple recipenets in "To:"
References: <c2l3g5$h0f$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <N62dnSAj1p55gtPdRVn-gw@comcast.com>

Normally 2nd and subsequent people to get
email should go in the CC: (or BCC:) field
but apparently you can do it by putting a
newline at the end of each entry in the
To: field.

See suggested change in your code below.

-Larry


"Miki Tebeka" <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote in message
news:c2l3g5$h0f$1 at news2.netvision.net.il...
> Hello All,
>
> Our nightly build system is supposed to send email notification on build
> status to several developers. Using SMTP and email packages I can post
> email to one user at a time, then I try to add multiple email addresses
> in the "To" field only the 1'st person gets the email.
>
> A lot of this code is taken from the email demo.
> ---
> VERBOSE = False
> def inform(msg):
>      if not VERBOSE:
>          return
>      print "*", msg
>      stdout.flush()
>
> def sendmail(msg, to, attachments=None, **kw):
>      '''Send email
>          msg - Message
>          to - To address
>          attachments - List of files to attach
>          kw - Other keyword arguments
>      '''
>      main = MIMEMultipart()
>      subject = kw.get("subject", "Email Message")
>      inform("Subject = %s" % subject)
>      main["Subject"] = subject
>      _from = kw.get("from","%s at zoran.co.il" % getuser())
>      inform("From = %s" % _from)
>      main["From"] = _from

I think you can also change the following line,
At least that is how the code in the SmtpWriter.py
module I use does it.

>      to = ",\n    ".join(list(to))


>      inform("To = %s" % to)
>      main["To"] = to
>      main.epilogue = ""
>
>      main.attach(MIMEText(msg))
>      if attachments:
>          for path in attachments:
>              if not isfile(path):
>                  continue
>              # Guess the content type based on the file"s extension.
>              # Encoding
>              # will be ignored, although we should check for simple
>              # things like
>              # gzip"d or compressed files.
>              ctype, encoding = guess_type(path)
>              if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
>                  # No guess could be made, or the file is encoded
>                  # (compressed), so
>                  # use a generic bag-of-bits type.
>                  ctype = "application/octet-stream"
>              maintype, subtype = ctype.split("/", 1)
>              if maintype == "text":
>                  inform("Attaching %s as text file" % path)
>                  fp = open(path)
>                  # Note: we should handle calculating the charset
>                  msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
>                  fp.close()
>              elif maintype == "image":
>                  inform("Attaching %s as image file" % path)
>                  fp = open(path, "rb")
>                  msg = MIMEImage(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
>                  fp.close()
>              elif maintype == "audio":
>                  inform("Attaching %s as audio file" % path)
>                  fp = open(path, "rb")
>                  msg = MIMEAudio(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
>                  fp.close()
>              else:
>                  inform("Attaching %s as generic file [%s]" %  \
>                          (path, ctype))
>                  fp = open(path, "rb")
>                  msg = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype)
>                  msg.set_payload(fp.read())
>                  fp.close()
>                  # Encode the payload using Base64
>                  encode_base64(msg)
>              # Set the filename parameter
>              msg.add_header("Content-Disposition", "attachment",
>                      filename=basename(path))
>              main.attach(msg)
>      s = SMTP()
>      server = kw.get("server", "mail.zoran.co.il")
>      inform("Connecting to %s..." % server)
>      s.connect(server)
>      msgstr = main.as_string()
>      inform("Sending %d bytes..." % len(msgstr))
>      s.sendmail(main["From"], main["To"], msgstr)
>      s.close()
> ---
>
> Thanks.
> Miki




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 11 08:47:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:47:52 -0500
Subject: Python and serverless/flat DBs
In-Reply-To: <c280l0$4r0$1@news.gate.net>
References: <c280l0$4r0$1@news.gate.net>
Message-ID: <q8_3c.2668$G3.21072@localhost>

Davin wrote:

> ZODB - Object persistence, which makes it good for storing Python 
> objects. I seem to have gotten the impression that it needs a backend of 
> another database to run though...or is this only if you want transaction 
> support? 

Might depend on what you mean by "transaction".  I suspect the 
impression you have gotten is wrong, because one can effectively use 
ZODB without a backend server, provided you are accessing it from only 
one process.

-Peter


From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 03:40:16 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Program not Stripping Headers from Email though Working fine
Message-ID: <20040304084016.12085.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,
I have written this simple code. I want to strip all
the headers from a file including To, From, Received,
X-Spam etc which has long list of email messages (spam
archive). 

After I do this: I want to write the payload in
another file output.
The code is here, but I dont know why the headers are
still present in the output file.

Please do help,
Whats missing friends?
Any help is highly appreciated

Thanks
Dont

---------------------------------------


import email
import os
import sys
import re
import mailbox
import email.Parser
import email.Message
import getopt


fread = open('325.r2', 'r')
msg=email.message_from_file(fread)

for hdr in msg.keys():
	if hdr.startswith('From'):
		del msg[hdr]
	if hdr.startswith('To'):
		del msg[hdr]
	if hdr.startswith('Received'):
		del msg[hdr]
	if hdr.startswith('X-'):
		del msg[hdr]

fwrite = open('output','w')
fwrite.write(msg.as_string())


----------------------------------------------











__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 27 20:28:34 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:28:34 -0700
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
Message-ID: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>

Playing with Prothon today, I am fascinated by the idea of eliminating
classes in Python.  I'm trying to figure out what fundamental benefit
there is to having classes.  Is all this complexity unecessary?

Here is an example of a Python class with all three types of methods
(instance, static, and class methods).

# Example from Ch.23, p.381-2 of Learning Python, 2nd ed.

class Multi:
    numInstances = 0
    def __init__(self):
        Multi.numInstances += 1
    def printNumInstances():
        print "Number of Instances:", Multi.numInstances
    printNumInstances = staticmethod(printNumInstances)
    def cmeth(cls, x):
        print cls, x
    cmeth = classmethod(cmeth)

a = Multi(); b = Multi(); c = Multi()

Multi.printNumInstances()
a.printNumInstances()

Multi.cmeth(5)
b.cmeth(6)


Here is the translation to Prothon.

Multi = Object()
with Multi:
    .numInstances = 0
    def .__init__():              # instance method
        Multi.numInstances += 1
    def .printNumInstances():     # static method
        print "Number of Instances:", Multi.numInstances
    def .cmeth(x):                # class method
        print Multi, x

a = Multi(); b = Multi(); c = Multi()

Multi.printNumInstances()
a.printNumInstances()

Multi.cmeth(5)
b.cmeth(6)


Note the elimination of 'self' in these methods.  This is not just a
syntactic shortcut (substiting '.' for 'self')  By eliminating this
explicit passing of the self object, Prothon makes all method forms
the same and eliminates a lot of complexity.  It's beginning to look
like the complexity of Python classes is unecessary.

My question for the Python experts is -- What user benefit are we
missing if we eliminate classes?

-- Dave



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 05:23:02 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:23:02 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <4qet50hla2dna5g8gqcbbfj2tsmu3smkp7@4ax.com>

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:53:11 +0100, Marco Bubke <marco at bubke.de>
wrote:

>are better but still I used to see [] as list

Surely it *is* a list - a list of modifier functions to apply to the
original function.

To me, the 'as' syntax is misleading. It implies that the syntax is
asserting a type, style or similar attribute of the function. That may
be the expected normal use, with 'staticmethod' etc, but my
understanding is that it is meant to be more general than that. You
can apply any translation or any sequence of translations that you
choose.

Not that I care either way, just being pointlessly pedantic really.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From kylotan at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 16:00:51 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 13:00:51 -0800
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
	<104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com>
	<153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com>
	<104nnqlq81dvj48@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0403081300.42e2d061@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<104nnqlq81dvj48 at news.supernews.com>...

> Your comment below makes me wonder if you're trying
> to create a "text adventure" game. I'm not certain whether
> to take it literally or not.

Well, it's a graphical game. There are many similarities to text games
but also quite a few differences, such as input handling and sound
often being dependent on the display being set up, for instance.

> Text adventure games have a real different domain model
> from what most object oriented systems are designed for.
> Almost all objects are singletons, or else have lots of
> behavior in the instances that aren't part of the base
> classes.

Well, I have a few singletons (although I don't enforce this
constraint) but the majority of objects come from classes that are
instantiated in large amounts. I enjoy many of the benefits of object
orientation but it certainly is a long way from any sort of
swappable-component system.

> No, I'm talking about layers in the sense that objects
> in one layer are not allowed to call objects in higher
> layers. Sometimes imposing a layered architecture
> clarifies things by forcing the removal of cyclic
> dependencies.

Ah, got you. Well, I've already gone to some lengths to achieve this.
I think the problem I have is not so much that any one class is
dependent on a lot of other classes, but that it's totally dependent
on one or two. And that one in turn is totally dependent on another,
right throughout the system. It's more of a chain than a web if that
makes any sense, but breaking the chain breaks the semantics, leaving
me very little to meaningfully test.
 
> Mock objects don't have do-nothing functions. They have functions
> that do exactly what the current test needs them to do.

I guess I just can't see any way in which I could create mock objects
for these tests that could provide reasonable behaviour for these
tests, and yet still have no dependency on other objects. Right now,
almost all my methods are of one of two types:

- Simple get/set style. I can keep these valid with assertions inside
the method. Occasionally there's an extra multiplication or level of
indirection here but it's (deliberately) kept so simple that there's
no chance of error.

- Interactions with other objects. These are meaningless without the
other object's methods and state.


I don't have any complex functions that perform some important
mutation of the object's state which can be verified as being correct
at the end with minimal interaction with other objects. It just
doesn't happen at the moment.

I'll revisit the testing strategy once I have significantly more
functionality. Maybe it'll make more sense then.

-- 
Ben Sizer


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Mar 30 07:29:16 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:29:16 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PyPerl 1.0.1 [requires Visual Studio compiler?]
In-Reply-To: <20040329215503.1365541070.eric@zomething.com>
References: <20040329215503.1365541070.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <20040330222632.J31840@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Eric @ Zomething wrote:

> As I'm a just poor boy with a dog, I do not own or use Visual Studio (as
> nice as it may be).  I do have/use the mingw 2.95.2-1 C++ compiler (in
> case of an emergency or if my life gets too simple).
>
> Is it possible to build this module with what I have?  Should I expect
> to need Visual Studio from time to time for building Python modules
> which dive into C++?  Am I totally off track here?  Is this just what I
> get for not absorbing some readme file?

I don't have the URL offhand, but www.python.org does have the information
on how to build a Distutils'ified package with MinGW, provided that
MinGW's gcc isn't allergic to the strain of C present.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 17:44:53 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 14:44:53 -0800
Subject: Split a sentence by punctuations using Python
Message-ID: <14b36d18.0403051444.21b3937e@posting.google.com>

I want to split sentences by using punctuations, numeric numbers as
the delimiters.

For example, suppose I have a text that contains sentences like so:

"To help you get there a bit faster, I will be driving at 120 miles an
hour (I am just kidding). Is that OK?"

Now, I want to get the following segments from this text:

To help you get there a bit faster
I will be driving at
miles an hour
I am just kidding
Is that OK

You know, string.split does not work for this objective.  So how can i
achieve this?  Thanks.


From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Sun Mar 14 13:23:14 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:23:14 GMT
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ct05c.10019$V26.2708@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <mq15c.16863$fg7.5619@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Strangely enough, I have taken on that philosophy in my life and it had lead
me to the love of doing database architecture and development as a career.
:)  Using Python or any other programming language would assist me in my
continued endeavor.

kbass




"DilbertFan" <steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ct05c.10019$V26.2708 at newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
| Do what you love and the money will follow. It works.   Don't worry about
| jobs.
| Read something on metaphysics that talks about how abundance flows to you
| when you simply engage in something that is fun and allows the kid in you,
| or the Spirit in you, or whatever, to play and to create great stuff.
|
| If you give yourself to other through your talent,  (and the more you
enjoy
| what you're doing, the more value you're giving to everyone who makes use
of
| your creation), the more value comes right back to you.
| If you don't like the spiritual angle here, than read Quantum Physics
about
| how we create our reality through intentions and thoughts, like The
| Holographic Universe by Talbot.  If you're 'buzzing' through the joy of
| engaging in your passion, you may naturally attract abundance by other
| completely unrelated means if doesn't come through programming, or it may
| come directly from this area.
|
| Closer to home, read what Bruce Eckel wrote about Doing what you love:
| http://mindview.net/WebLog/log-0037
|
| "kbass" <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
| news:a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059 at fe3.columbus.rr.com...
| > I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job market
looks
| > for programming using Python. I really don't see many jobs (probably one
| or
| > two) that require Python experience at all. Most DBA and SA positions
that
| I
| > have seen require Perl and most development position require Java or C++
| so
| > how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little to no
chance
| > that an employer will require the use of Python or consider using Python
| > over other programming languages such as Java?
| >
| > kbass
| >
| >
|
|




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 17:20:35 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:20:35 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <106ejvi5fpkkv45@news.supernews.com>


"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:7vD9c.318$1A6.114130 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> Here's a breakdown of most of the syntax discussed re: PEP318 using an
> example from python-dev. There are probably several more (I've added
[10]).
> The example applies both function decoration and annotation.
>
>
>
> Personally, I find all of this very off-putting. I find none of these
> proposals clean, clear, and/or readable, except perhaps [11] (which
started
> the whole mess in the first place). I tend to agree with the following,
> somewhat out of context, remark:

What makes them unreadable is the attempt to put parameters
into the decorators. This shoves the entire enterprise out over
a number of lines. The mixture of all upper case with the rest
of the syntax lends touch of impenetrability to them.

As far as I can tell, Python has hit an architectural limit on
the design of the function/code block. Some things are simply not
extendable without making compromises, and I think that the design
of the 'def' statement, combined with the indentation rules, is one
of them.

John Roth


>
>
> """
> If only we could learn from others' mistakes:
>
> Finally, in designing Self, we have learned one lesson by making mistakes:
> examples can persuade the designer to include additional features which
> later turn out to produce incomprehensible behavior in unforeseen
> circumstances. This might be called the language designer's trap.
> Minimalism, simplicity and consistency are better guides. They benefit
every
> programmer, not just the ones who need advanced features. We suspect that
> many of today's object-oriented languages could profit by dropping
features.
>
> Programming as an Experience: The Inspiration for Self
> """
> Isaac Gouy, http://lambda.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$11653
>
>




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_  Sun Mar 21 14:45:39 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:45:39 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>

Marco Bubke wrote:
> def foo(x, y) as staticmethode: pass
> 
> Define foo with arguments x and y as staticmethode.
> 
> Is Python now C++? Mabe I miss something why this syntax is wrong.

Personnally, I prefer the "as" syntax to the other proposed (and by a 
large margin).  However, I feel that it is making the language more 
complex and I'm far from sure it's worth the effort.  I've given some 
Python courses, and the first reaction when showing a class with some 
methods is something like "so I guess when the first parameter is not 
named 'self' it makes a class method?".  So I have to explain it's not 
the case, etc.

If easing the creation of class methods is so important, I would prefer 
a more radical approach with a end result that would be more intuitive 
to newcomers:
- Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self" 
in next versions of Python.
- In a future major version of Python, 3 or 4, self becomes a keyword 
and a first parameter named otherwise implies a class method (I 
understand it could mean a lot of changes in code not using self).

Regards,

Nicolas


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 14:46:29 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:46:29 -0800
Subject: os.popen varies return type depending on exit status?
References: <99dce321.0403050330.572a68da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-24C409.11462905032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <99dce321.0403050330.572a68da at posting.google.com>,
 dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) wrote:

> Hi there, on Linux:
> 
>    >>> [ type(popen(cmd).close()) for cmd in ( 'true', 'foo' ) ]
>    sh: line 1: foo: command not found
>    [<type 'NoneType'>, <type 'int'>]
> 
> 
> This feels inconsistent to me, and it just bit me because I was
> expecting a 0 exit status on success, not None. Does close() return
> this for historic reasons?

The close function wraps either fclose(3) or pclose(3),
and I don't believe it actually knows which.  They return
the same 0 value on success, so in this case you see fclose
behavior.  Maybe that is for historic reasons, since in
principle I don't think it would hurt anything for fclose
to return 0.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From bogus at bogus.net  Wed Mar  3 06:35:25 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:35:25 GMT
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <1qj1c.29893$qo.16145@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Karthikesh Raju" <karthik at james.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:2dy8qimiwq.fsf at itl-pc87.hut.fi...
>
> Hi All,
>
> i am wondering about the best way to read in a configuration file that
> goes like:
>
> ###########
>
> [users]
> source_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/python'
> data_dir   = '/home/karthik/Projects/data'
> result_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/Results'
> param_file = $result_dir/param_file
> res_file   = $result_dir/result_file
> comment    = 'this is a comment'
>
> K = 8
> simulate_K = 0
>
> N = 4000
> mod_scheme = 'QPSK'
>
> Na = K+2
>
> ######################
>
> As of now i use config parser and i get this in a dictionary but
>
> a) but i have users.na and not users.Na (all the fields are in lower
>    case)
>
> b) all the rhs arguements are string, but i have handled this by
>    trying " try eval(rhs) ... except ..." block
>
> c) Na = 'K+2' though does not work, would like to have Na = 10, but i
>    get users.na = 'K+2'
>
> d) result_file, param_file should actually be should be with pathname
>    extensions filled in.
>
> Have looked in c.l.py none one ofthe suggestions was to use
> splitlines, this cant handle blank lines, other was to have config.py
> ..
>
> Hope to get some solution for this ..
>
> with warm regards
>
> karthik
>
>
> -- 
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Karthikesh Raju,     email: karthik at james.hut.fi
> Researcher,     http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
> Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
> Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
> Department of Computer Sc.,
> P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
> Espoo, FINLAND
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

I modified the config parser that is included as an example that ships with
pyparsing, by adding:

iniLines = "\n".join( file("karthik.ini").readlines() )
config = inifile_BNF().parseString(iniLines)
pprint.pprint( config.asList() )
for k in config.users.keys():
    print k,":",config.users[k]

This gives the following output:

[['users',
  ['source_dir ', " '/home/karthik/Projects/python'"],
  ['data_dir   ', " '/home/karthik/Projects/data'"],
  ['result_dir ', " '/home/karthik/Projects/Results'"],
  ['param_file ', ' $result_dir/param_file'],
  ['res_file   ', ' $result_dir/result_file'],
  ['comment    ', " 'this is a comment'"],
  ['K ', ' 8'],
  ['simulate_K ', ' 0'],
  ['N ', ' 4000'],
  ['mod_scheme ', " 'QPSK'"],
  ['Na ', ' K+2']]]
comment :  'this is a comment'
data_dir :  '/home/karthik/Projects/data'
mod_scheme :  'QPSK'
Na :  K+2
K :  8
simulate_K :  0
N :  4000
res_file :  $result_dir/result_file
result_dir :  '/home/karthik/Projects/Results'
source_dir :  '/home/karthik/Projects/python'
param_file :  $result_dir/param_file

This actually shows the 3 access modes to the results from a pyparsing
parseString() operation:
- as a raw list of tokens (optionally grouped into sublists, giving a parse
tree)
- as an object with attributes (note reference to 'config.users', also
notice that keys are not converted to lower case)
- as a dictionary (access to config.users[k] for each key k)

The 2nd level keys could also be referenced using the form
config.users.data_dir, config.users.comment, etc.

pyparsing also comes with an expression parser and evaluator in its
examples.  With some creative merging of the two, I think you could in
fairly short order have a config parser that would handle your Na = K+2 and
res_file = "$result_dir..." config values.

The pyparsing home page is at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.

HTH,
-- Paul




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 11 09:34:52 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:34:52 -0600
Subject: popen from inside a thread not working!
In-Reply-To: <40502a75@clarion.carno.net.au>
References: <40502a75@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <20040311143450.GA14393@unpythonic.net>

Steve,
Must be something in your program or something different between your
environment and mine.  There's no reason why the presence of threads
would change whether stdin is a tty.

$ cat steve.py
import os, thread, time

def run_subcommand():
    os.system("tty")

def run_subcommand_in_thread():
    thread.start_new(run_subcommand, ())
    time.sleep(1) # give it plenty of time to complete...

run_subcommand()
run_subcommand_in_thread()
$ python steve.py
/dev/pts/18
/dev/pts/18

Jeff



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 16 17:16:12 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:16:12 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <c37nim$58r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c37nim$58r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c37uh0$llq$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> Using the .translate() method on unicode strings should be
> even more performant:
> 
> # prepare mapping table to match .translate interface
> table = {}
> for k,v in replacement_pairs: table[ord(k)]=v
> 
> def multi_replace(inp):
>   return inp.translate(table)

Even better *smile*.

  - Josiah


From andrew at shellscape.org  Mon Mar 29 01:01:54 2004
From: andrew at shellscape.org (Andrew Powell)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:01:54 -0500
Subject: MSScriptControl objects
Message-ID: <c48e33$5a0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello all. Newcommer to the newsgroups so please let me know if Im not
adhering to any policy.

Ive setup an app (.NET app) which is using the MSScriptControl. I have the
ActivePython package installed and the ActiveScript engine for Python
registered. Thats all peachykeen.

Im running into a problem whereby Objects that Ive extended to the script
arent being 'seen' correctly by the engine. Other languages such as
VBScript, JScript and RubyScript are dealing with and using the objects just
fine. The following is an error that the pyscript engine returned upon using
an object ive named 'Graphics'. The following error occurs when I try to use
the methods, properties or subclasses of any object extended to the script
via MSScriptControl.AddObject.

Error Number : -2147352567

Description : Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<Script Block >", line 22, in Widget_Activate
    Widget_Paint()
  File "<Script Block >", line 36, in Widget_Paint
    Graphics.Clear
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32comext\axscript\client\pyscript.py",
line 146, in __getattr__
    return self._scriptItem_.subItems[string.lower(attr)].attributeObject
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'subItems'


Line 145 Column -1

I would greatly appreciate any feedback on this, and how to get objects
extended to the scripts working in python.

Thanks!






From dietrich at zdome.net  Tue Mar 16 19:29:05 2004
From: dietrich at zdome.net (Dietrich Epp)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:29:05 -0800
Subject: "print" as function not statement
In-Reply-To: <c2n32u$nu6$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2mrga$t7g$1@panix1.panix.com> <c2n32u$nu6$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <18FCAFF8-77AA-11D8-A89D-0003934ACDEC@zdome.net>


On Mar 10, 2004, at 4:52 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

> My first thought was to add separator and newline attributes to file 
> objects
> and keep print just like it is, but the print object is more flexible. 
> You
> could easily add further extensions, e. g.
>
> print.set_format(float, "%.2f")
> print.set_format(str, "%r")

Ah, just so you know, 'print' doesn't format anything.  It just puts 
everything through the str() function.  If you need fancier formatting, 
instead of turning the print function into a glorified printf, look to 
the formatting operator or the fpformat module.




From myles at geocities.com  Mon Mar 29 20:53:58 2004
From: myles at geocities.com (Myles)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 17:53:58 -0800
Subject: QuickTimeTcl and Python/Tkinter crash
References: <mailman.42.1080555269.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a4638b9b.0403291753.4a490a08@posting.google.com>

Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> wrote in message news:<mailman.42.1080555269.20120.python-list at python.org>...

> All seems to work pretty fine until the
> Tkinter application is closed, when the Python interpreter crashes with an
> error of the following kind:
[...]
> I reckon the problem is that Python holds on to a reference to
> something inside QuickTimeTcl after the QuickTimeTcl movie widget has been
> destroyed.

Sounds possible. Tkinter does automatically maintain a widget tree, so
the Movie widget may not be getting destroyed properly.

> 1. Is there a way to force Python to get rid of references so the
> problem mentioned above could be avoided? (I.e. some sort of forced
> garbage collection?)

You might wish to try trapping the destroy event, and writing your own
exit routine that explicitly destroys the Movie object.

Reference: http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/events-and-bindings.htm
(towards the bottom, "Capturing destroy events")

Changes (not tried or tested) below:

> Here is the sample code I'm using. (To try it out, you need to download
> QuickTimeTcl and put it where Python can find it (e.g.
> "C:\\Python23\tcl").)
> 
> --------------------------
> 
> import Tkinter
> 
> class Movie(Tkinter.Widget):
>     def   init  (self, parent, cnf={}, **kw):
> 	parent.tk.eval('package require -exact QuickTimeTcl 3.1')
>         Tkinter.Widget.  init  (self, parent, 'movie', cnf, kw)


  def closing():
      m.destroy()  # will this work ? maybe "m = None" ?
      root.destroy()

> root = Tkinter.Tk()

  root.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", closing)

> m = Movie(root, file="toaster.mpeg")
> m.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> 
> ---------------------------

Regards, Myles.


From james at ractive.ch  Wed Mar  3 09:09:19 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:09:19 +0100
Subject: Replace text with value form dictionary (regexp)
Message-ID: <c24ouh$i92$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hi there

I want to implement a small templating system where values in angle brackets
should be replaced by the corresponding dicitionary value ("foo {x} bar" ->
"foo 10 bar");

>>> d = {}
>>> d["x"] = 10
>>> p = re.compile('{ ( [^}]* ) }', re.VERBOSE)
>>> p.sub(r'd["\1"]','foo {x} bar')
'foo d["x"] bar'

How can I now put the actual value of d["x"] into the string 'foo d["x"]
bar'?


Thanks for your help.


Regards

James




From andywil at nortelnetworks.com  Thu Mar 25 07:48:01 2004
From: andywil at nortelnetworks.com (Glawster)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 04:48:01 -0800
Subject: strptime in 2.3.3
Message-ID: <2e3b9aea.0403250448.5ac28cef@posting.google.com>

Folks,

I am parsing a list of directories that have a name format
'YearWeekNoDay', using the follwoing code

            print list_dir[j]
            print "%s" % (time.strptime (list_dir[j], '%Y%U%w'))
            ttuple = time.strptime (list_dir[j], '%Y%U%w')
            year   = ttuple[0]
            month  = ttuple[1]
            day    = ttuple[2]
            print day, month, year

I get the following output:

2004123
(2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, -1)
1 1 2004

2004124
(2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, -1)
1 1 2004

strptime doesn't seem to be treating this correctly, have I missed
something?

It works in python 2.2.2, I have tested this on both a solaris and
linux version of 2.3.3

Thanks,
Andy


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Wed Mar 17 15:03:59 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:03:59 -0500
Subject: destructuring tuple and list
In-Reply-To: <c39cui$nqm$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <8dad5312.0403162334.435de9c6@posting.google.com>
	<c39cui$nqm$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4058AF2F.1060702@zephyrfalcon.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> I've also thought about that. s/t like real pattern matching might be cool,
> but is probably too much of a paradigm shift.   
> 
> What I do is this:
> 
> l = (5,6,3,4)
> x,y,tail = l[0:2], l[:2]

This does not seem to work, though:

 >>> l = (5, 6, 3, 4)
 >>> x, y, tail = l[0:2], l[:2]
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size

What does work is:

 >>> (x, y), tail = l[0:2], l[2:]
 >>> print x, y, tail
5 6 (3, 4)
 >>>

Or maybe:

 >>> x, y, tail = l[0], l[1], l[2:]

Cheers,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From phipps.xue at sap.com  Wed Mar 10 02:10:31 2004
From: phipps.xue at sap.com (Phipps Xue)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:10:31 +0800
Subject: Is there any example code to read WMA format?
Message-ID: <c2mf19$pck$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Hi All,

I wanna write a programm that can write a WMA file's tags such as artist,
year, genre and etc. Is there any example code in python to do that?

Phipps




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 11:40:06 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 08:40:06 -0800
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>	<4043597F.30506@cs.com>
	<mailman.21.1078156622.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403030840.388b562d@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.21.1078156622.22701.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> One debugging feature that Python doesn't support is "edit-while-debugging" (edit 
> the function/method) you just debug, something which is possible in VB and VC6, 
> for example) I think it'd not be *that* hard implementing it. Maybe a Python IDE 
> vendor will implement it some day.
> 
> -- Gerhard

I have used Python's reload and weakref to build classes and have
succeeded in develop simple UI programs in a non-stop fasion, i.e.,
you build your application while it is running, without needing to
shut it down and restart (theoretically.) It's like open-heart
surgery.

I believe VB and VC6's "edit-and-continue" does not roll back states
(neither does my Python program), which kind of makes them less
useful. I mean, you cannot use this feature to build up an application
truly in a continous, non-stop fashion. If for some reason you have
modified some states, you will have to restore them manually, before
you continue with the new debugged code.

A true "edit-and-continue" is somewhat related to two areas of
computing that I am aware of: (a) reversable computing, (b)
prototype-based programming languages. The first one is highly
theoretical, and claims that if everything is done right, our
computers will dissipate zero heat due to the conservation of entropy.
Reversing execution effects in these software/hardware combos is
always possible. The second one allows the programmer to easily build
surrogate objects, and commit the changes only at the end. (This will
dissipate heat with current hardware/software configurations.)
Moreover, surrogates can be built as onion skins, so even if you
commit the changes at the outter layers, you can still roll-back at
the inner layer later. Prototype-based languages thus may enjoy a
territory that common class-based OOP language do not. Theoretically
it's possible to build an application in a non-stop fashion this way,
but of course there are constraints from memory size and
non-compliance from existing libraries written in traditional
languages that do not support roll-back.

regards,

Hung Jung


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 13:42:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:42:06 -0500
Subject: strings question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
References: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <hyn4c.2756$G3.22581@localhost>

Faheem Mitha wrote:

> Dear People,
> 
> If I am given two strings, named foo and bar, what is the most elegant
> way to create a string object whose name is the value of foo and whose
> value is the value of bar? I have done some searching + looking in my
> introductory textbook "Learning Python" but have not come up with an
> answer yet.

Assuming this is inside a method and not a function:

     def makeAttribute(self, foo, bar):
         setattr(self, foo, bar)

will do the trick.

If you need it in a function, use globals() as a dictionary, but note 
that you are getting a global, not a local.  You can't do it effectively 
if what you want is a local.

-Peter


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar  8 12:28:14 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:28:14 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <mailman.110.1078718080.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<36gth1-42c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <donn-462327.09281408032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <36gth1-42c.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>,
 "Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
> > This has to be the worst idea I've seen in a long time.
> 
> Well, it is popular enough to be in shell scripting (digit
> form), several forms of Basic (either form), another poster
> mentioned ADA, and I have seen it in other languages which
> I have forgotten.

This is an argument for it, or against?

> Note that your mental model is one of "I want to continue/break
> *that* loop".  When *that* is the enclosing loop, break/continue
> is easy.  When it is outside the enclosing loop, you then have
> to figure out how to transfer control to the appropriate
> location using exceptions, state variables and who knows
> what else.

Don't forget "return".

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From news at grauer-online.de  Sun Mar  7 09:28:28 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:28:28 +0100
Subject: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class
In-Reply-To: <639f17f8.0403070516.5f59c960@posting.google.com>
References: <c7c33240.0403062142.6762c4d1@posting.google.com>
	<639f17f8.0403070516.5f59c960@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2fbi2$m7g$2@online.de>

Neal,

question was: Why can't Lists be private variables in a class

Your answer is wrong in this context.

Uwe

Neal Holtz wrote:
> 
> 
> Because of 'Private name mangling' (identifiers beginning with '__' and not ending
> in '__' are considered private to the class) ?
> 
> See
>                http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/ref/atom-identifiers.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 10:10:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:10:41 -0500
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403050610.7e850b3@posting.google.com>
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>
	<mailman.5.1078451040.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0403050610.7e850b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <O_Odnf4ZOJbvBdXdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5.1078451040.19534.python-list at python.org>...
>>Speed is secondary to correctness, appropriately defined.
> 
> In production use, both are often vitally important. If you are
> modelling a lot of data, a slow compiler or programming language may
> force you to use an oversimplified model.

Terry's still right: correctness comes *first*, even if both are 
"vitally important".  Only once you have the thing correct (as proven by 
passing tests) should you focus on speed.

This leaves aside the possibility that you should consider speed before 
even picking your programming language, architecture, hardware, and 
such, which of course for a problem requiring *real* speed would come 
first.  This thread was about a small detail of Python performance and 
the possibility of having the compiler do some optimizing, however, and 
these are not concerns that would show up in the initial stage of such a 
project.

-Peter


From paul at prescod.net  Sat Mar 27 19:53:04 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:53:04 -0800
Subject: Combinatorics of dual-language use
In-Reply-To: <106bl0t31fub51f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<106alaf403jgs54@corp.supernews.com>
	<c44ine$ad6$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<106bl0t31fub51f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406621F0.3020903@prescod.net>

Cameron Laird wrote:

>...

> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> As I think about it more, maybe Inline::C (or Tcl's
> Critcl, for that matter) *is* something that would
> suit the original poster roughly as well as Pyrex.

Neither Pyrex nor Inline::C are going to be great for C++. They were 
both created by C programmers for C programmers (I'd like to see this 
change about Pyrex some day). BOOST::Python, on the other hand, is 
probably a good fit.

  Paul Prescod





From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Mar  2 00:38:44 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 05:38:44 +0000
Subject: tkFileDialog.askdirectory root directory ?
In-Reply-To: <c206mk$lmi$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <c206mk$lmi$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <40441DE4.6020708@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Ringwraith wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I have the following problem. I use the tkFileDialog.askdirectory dialog to
> allow users of my application to pick some subfolder from 'C:/my_app'
> directory. I use initialdir='C:/my_app' option to set 'C:/my_app' as initial
> directory. But I want my initial directory to be also a root directory, so
> the user cannot pick any directory outside 'C:/my_app'  folder. I have no
> idea how to do it using standard  tkFileDialog.askdirectory. Is that
> possible?
> 
> Thank you in advance for any hints.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Niki
> 
> 

Unles there is a speacial windows extra thingy I don't think you could 
stop the user selecting a directory not below C:/my_app however you can 
at least start the directory selector with that as it's initial 
directory like so:


tkFileDialog.askdirectory(initialdir="C:/my_app")


HTH
Martin



From loic at fejoz.net  Wed Mar 31 03:34:59 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:34:59 +0200
Subject: Python compiler -> py to C, py to ELF
In-Reply-To: <mailman.160.1080716941.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.160.1080716941.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4dvrh$kgh$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

fowlertrainer at anonym.hu wrote:
> Hello !
> 
> Know anyone about py2C compiler ?
> I see that py2jar is exists, and is named jython.
> 
> But have a python a compiler what can compile the complete project
> into one ELF binary file ?
> 
> Thanx for infos.
> 

Yes, type 'py2c' into google... You will have a C code but this will be 
as fast as trough the python interpreter.

In fact, nothing real with compiler can be done until type inference in 
Python is fully implemented.

For type inference look at StarKiller 
(http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/1/), a promising type 
inference for Python. I think the author is also working on a c++ 
translator but no code is released.

If you just want an exe file, also see py2exe 
(http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)

If what you want is something faster than python but not an ELF file 
then also look at pyrex.

Yermat



From chrish at cryptocard.com  Tue Mar 23 10:59:02 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:59:02 -0500
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <63Z7c.11345$A_2.690678@news20.bellglobal.com>

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

> I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.
> Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means of development,
> dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for efficiency.  Any pointers
> appreciated.  Surveys of leading open source 3D engines, such as Nebula and
> Crystal Space, haven't yielded anything.  I'm now starting to look at
> non-game applications.

A couple of years ago I started writing a simple tile-based game engine 
(think overhead-view like Ultima V... actually, I was using the sprites from 
Ultima V as textures :-) entirely in Python.

It was running at an acceptable speed even on lousy hardware (8MB ATI Rage 
Mobility-P in my old Pentium II 233MHz laptop).

I know several commercial games, such as Freedom Force, use Python for 
scripting, but I'm pretty sure the main engine is entirely C/C++.

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From python at rcn.com  Tue Mar 23 11:57:13 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:57:13 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>

[Trevor Perrin]
>   - getrandstring() is a useful addition to the API, whereas 
> getrandbits() is trivally done by calling randint(0, 2**k).

Actually, randint() is implemented in terms of getrandbits() when
k>53.  This saves needless conversions in and out of floating point.


Raymond


From rmkrauter at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 22:07:05 2004
From: rmkrauter at yahoo.com (Rich Krauter)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:07:05 -0500
Subject: Regular expressions and sub
In-Reply-To: <1c750f1c.0403251844.3e027d93@posting.google.com>
References: <1c750f1c.0403251844.3e027d93@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1080270424.6809.5.camel@vaio>

On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 21:44, Emhoff wrote:
> Hey hey --
> 
> I've got a question about regular expression substitions.  Basically,
> I want to do something like this:
> 
> re.sub(r"(stuff)|(blah)", r"I was \00", "stuff blah")
> 
> Which would yield the string "I was stuff I was blah" -- but I get "I
> was \x00 I was \x00" because apparently the replace string is simply
> being interpreted as a normal string, and not a regular expression.
> 
> So, my question is, is there a simple way to do what I want?
> 
> Thanks much,
> John

Here's one way:
>>> re.sub(r"(stuff|blah)", r"I was \1", "stuff blah")
'I was stuff I was blah'

Rich




From bingopajama at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 10:18:50 2004
From: bingopajama at hotmail.com (Eric Ching)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 07:18:50 -0800
Subject: Help running pythonw from a command prompt with arguments
Message-ID: <6dd8dec2.0403030718.3e93e3da@posting.google.com>

Can I run pythonw with a script that takes command line arguments then
launches a GUI?  I try pythonw myscript.pyw -option arg (etc.) and
nothing happens.  Nothing, as in I am immediately returned to the DOS
prompt.

I just started learning Python a couple of weeks ago, so please bear
with me.  I have a script that(for now) uses command line arguments
then launches a window (Tk).  Once I have entered the arguments and
the window is launched I do not want the window to be dependent on the
DOS window.  I understand that pythonw gets around this, however I am
not having much luck.  Thanks in advance for your help, Eric


From dbrown2 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 18:05:14 2004
From: dbrown2 at yahoo.com (dbrown2 at yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 15:05:14 -0800
Subject: IDLE and turtle
Message-ID: <d524bdb3.0403211505.c2ff2db@posting.google.com>

I typically use IDLE for editing and debug.  On Windows at least, IDLE
and the standard turtle graphics module do not mix.  I think both use
Tkinter.

For now I use IPython and Jedit when using the turtle module but it's
not a great solution for me.  Is there any known work-around to use
turtle with IDLE?  If not is there a planned fix for the problem.  I
find turtle is a convenient way to do simple graphics without having
to install external modules or deal with event handlers or windowing
details.

-- David


From markusjais at yahoo.de  Fri Mar  5 08:23:34 2004
From: markusjais at yahoo.de (markusjais at yahoo.de)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:23:34 +0100
Subject: problem connecting to oracle database
Message-ID: <c29uv7$gv7$1@online.de>

hello

I hava a small Perl and a small Python CGI Skript.

I have Python 2.3.3 and the newest cx_Oracle module.

this is the error in my httpd_error.log

RuntimeError: Unable to acquire Oracle environment handle

at the start of the skript I set
os.environ["ORACLE_HOME"] = "/opt/oracle/OraHome1/"

this is the same as in the Perl skript and there it works.


this is the code how I connect:
try:
    connection = cx_Oracle.connect(user, passwd, "host.of.db.server") 
    cursor = connection.cursor()
except cx_Oracle.Error, e:
    print "Error %s" % e
    sys.exit (1)



the host of the db server is correct and a test skript on another machine
with another db worked, too.

any ideas what is wrong here ?


markus






From mark at mceahern.com  Sun Mar 14 20:03:03 2004
From: mark at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:03:03 -0600
Subject: Question on making names visible in packages
In-Reply-To: <slrnc59er9.3hp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
References: <slrnc59er9.3hp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <c32vc9$fkq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> I'm writing a package which will have a number of classes. I'd
> like to split them amongst different files within the package.
> However, I'd also like the package user to be able to say:
> 
> 	import Package
> 
> and then to use the classes as 
> 
> 	Package.Class1, Package.Class2, etc.

Example:

D:\BUFFER\Package
     bar.py
     foo.py
     __init__.py

bar defines class Bar; foo defines class Foo.

__init__.py looks like this:

from bar import Bar
from foo import Foo

Now, I can:

   import Package
   f = Package.Foo()

If the contents of Package are volatile, you could even use os, glob, 
and __import__ to make the from x import y entirely dynamic.

// m




From no at sp.am  Tue Mar 16 10:02:40 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:02:40 -0600
Subject: embedding opengl in wxpython window [Re: Advice needed: large OpenGL
 + Widgets Project for Molecular]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ib2dnWvFavSMisrdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>

>> 4. wxPython/PyOpenGL
>>   Advantages: Seems to be a healthy, integrated solution to putting
>>   an OpenGL window inside of a widget. Pretty widgets, and lots of
>>   fancy features.

The problem I have though is - can you have an opengl canvas in the same 
window with other wxpython controls.  I've done this in java, basic and 
C, but the wxpython demo only showed opengl animations running in their 
own window.  This is my problem with vpython and sdl too.  I want 
something that can be embedded in a tk/wx/qt/gtk window with other 
controls, even other opengl canvases.  At the C level, it's just a 
matter of clipping the drawing and switching the current drawing context.


 >>   Disadvantages: The OpenGL install still crashed under Windows. A
 >>   widget set that not many people use? Also requires the most amount
 >>   of code rewrite, although if it's the best option it isn't a
 >>   problem.

Yeah, it doesn't work on Windows for me either with python 2.3.  It used 
to work with python 2.2.  Now it complains about not finding glut.


From ml at dynkin.com  Tue Mar 16 11:01:07 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:01:07 +0900
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1079398511.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.14.1079398511.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3789r$2lt5$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> In CPython for example, small integers will be reused (-10..99 IIRC) and identical string constants will be reused.

Integers between -5 and 99 are reused.

Here is an excerpt from Objects/intobject.c.

#ifndef NSMALLPOSINTS
#define NSMALLPOSINTS		100
#endif
#ifndef NSMALLNEGINTS
#define NSMALLNEGINTS		5
#endif

-- George


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Mar  2 17:40:42 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:40:42 -0500
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>
	<4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<xv51c.8749$qA2.552179@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<404501c1$0$24935$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c381c.12334$qA2.578999@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Alex" <alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:404501c1$0$24935$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> Sean you rock!!!!!!!!
> You solved my problem !
> 1000 thank you are not enough ! :)
>
> Alex
[snip]

I'm glad it was helpful. Still, I'd like to suggest you consider Mel
Wilson's and Peter Otten's suggestions (in particular Peter's option (4)),
to see whether they may better serve your purpose. I just tried to solve the
problem you presented in the way it apeared you wanted to see it solved -
they've suggested some design insight that may prove more beneficial.

Best of luck,
Sean




From p at trick.lu  Sat Mar 20 10:43:15 2004
From: p at trick.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:43:15 +0100
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <jbpo50di1jjqj92vk15notkjge311llg70@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:28:40 GMT, kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser) wrote:

>However, they do patch Python slightly by adding Modules/setup.local
>to get around a non-standard naming of the tcl/tk libraries.

That is what worries me with OpenBSD. They patch everything in order to
make things more secure, which is their main focus. But doesn't this
bring a lot of compatibility issues along? 
If you compile "plain" Python from www.python.org  with the patched gcc,
who guarantees that it will work?
If you installed a patched Python, how can you be certain no bugs have
been added?
In any case, you're running a configuration that's less tested than the
"original".

-pu
--
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Fri Mar  5 19:16:33 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:16:33 -0800
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
	<Mw72c.28836$UU.21652@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <trhnh1-irn.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> > I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

You need to include the manifest file.  This comes up on the wxpython-users
mailing list once a week and there are full details in the archives.

Briefly, copy python.exe.manifest from c:\python23 and place it
alongside your executable, suitably renamed to the same name
as your executable, with a further .manifest extension.

Roger




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 23:22:39 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:22:39 -0800
Subject: Import config into global space?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4dh8i$q5s$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> config.py
> =========
> 
> ID_TOOLBAR = 105
> 
> myprog.py
> =========
> 
> import config
> print ID_TOOLBAR
> 
> result
> ======

from config import *

  - Josiah


From kkrueger at example.edu  Fri Mar 26 15:25:06 2004
From: kkrueger at example.edu (Karl A. Krueger)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:25:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mod_python exception catching,
	other repetitious per-page actions
References: <c41mqn$j3d$1@baldur.whoi.edu>
	<mailman.453.1080323006.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c423j0$nbq$2@baldur.whoi.edu>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> page_wrapper() could do extra magic with exec if you want it to have the
> same signature as callable.. something like
>    def page_wrapper(callable):
>        d = {}
>        name = callable.__name__
>        argspec = getargspecstr(callable) # based on inspect.getargspec()
>        callspec = ... # argspec with default values removed
>        exec """def %s(%s): ... return callable(%s) ...""" \
>            % (name, argspec, callspec) in d
>        return d[name]
> ... barf, eh?

Barf?  I -did- say I kind of wanted a Lisp macro; exec is about as close
as Python can get, I suppose.

Anyway, this has given me useful thoughts.  Of course, I may just end up
back with keyword arguments.  :-/

(But probably -not- reimplementing my whole application in Lisp.  I'm
not that good in Lisp yet.)

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger at example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar  2 06:24:24 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:24:24 -0000
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
	<du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>

In article <du7ptbvehb2.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi>,
Ville Vainio  <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Paddy" == Paddy McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.net> writes:
>
>    Paddy> from ESR on his scripting language tools. I would be
>    Paddy> interested to know if he still usesPython? Did he try any
>    Paddy> other "scripting" languages such as Ruby or Lua?
>
>Yes - for example he wrote a prototype of his SCO source code
>comparison tool in Python. I think he still mostly uses Python for the
>stuff he writes himself.
			.
			.
			.
You can write Eric yourself.  Did he try other languages?
Check out <URL: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/ >.
Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua?  Look at
<URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 08:23:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:23:01 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <mMSdnZyBVPKoW_fdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

francois lepoutre wrote:

>> ... wxPython still is horribly documented. Documentation of
>>the C version of something is really not very friendly especially to new
>>Python programmers. I for one would be glad to buy a book about wxPython
>>if someone a lot more experienced than myself cared to write such a
>>book. I do know C but I still find working from the wxWindows docs
>>frustrating with a lot of trial and error required.
> 
> 
> As was mentioned in a recent thread python is definitively
> the tool for applications with complex code and no or little UI.
> For UI-intense apps, win32 C# and delphi are still hard to beat

Do you say this because of the design tools, or for some
other reason?

I would never have considered that C# had a key advantage over
Python in the area of GUI performance, since most of the GUI
code in, say, wxPython is already in C++ anyway.

-Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 10:24:02 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:24:02 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <7iptb4ckea.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
	<7iptb4ckea.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <16480.22162.840505.295095@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Isaac> I disagree.  It's not just the compile which has to search for
    Isaac> that yield keyword, we human being reading other's uncommented
    Isaac> code (or mis-commented code) also has to do the same.  It would
    Isaac> do much good if the completely different call convention of
    Isaac> generator is made much more explicit in the definition of the
    Isaac> function.

You'll be free to write your generator functions like so:

    def generator(f):
        return f

    def silly_counter(n) [generator]:
        for i in range(10):
            yield n+i

It will just be a convention you adopt though, not a language rule.

Skip



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 25 13:28:43 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 18:28:43 GMT
Subject: Decoding numerical and name based HTML entities
References: <mailman.413.1080232301.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3v8cq$2dsgoh$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Pieter Claerhout <Pieter.Claerhout at creo.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> what would be the easiest way in Python to decode HTML entities to a unicode
> string? I would need a function that supports both numerical as well as name
> based HTML entities.
> 
> I already did some googling, but I only found a function that decoded
> numerical ones, and this function didn't support unicode...

Dictionary "table" would be first thing I'd try, ie.
    tohtml['&'] = '&amp;'
    fromhtml['&amp;'] = '&'

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 10 13:17:35 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:17:35 +0100
Subject: Dispatch, DispatchWithEvents
References: <3c8gljz9.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <k71sk1mo.fsf@python.net>

[followup to myself...]

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> I'm currently reinventing the wheel ;-), implementing 'clones' for the
> win32com.client.Dispatch and DispatchWithEvents functions using ctypes.
> It works fairly well, although the more complicated data types like
> SAFEARRAY or RECORD are not yet implemented.
>
> The win32com.client versions of these functions require makepy support
> (for DispatchWithEvents), and create this on demand.  The ctypes
> versions don't require something similar, they are using the ITypeComp
> interface at runtime to bind methods, properties, and constants on
> demand, for events support they use either IProvideClassInfo2 to find
> the outgoing interface, or iterate through the type library to find the
> type info and finally ITypeComp for the default outgoing interface.
>
> For my own sake, I'm trying to keep the ctypes version as compatible as
> possible to the win32com versions, although I'm not happy by some of the
> design decisions Mark Hammond or whoever wrote this stuff made.
>
> First, constants defined in the type libraries are exposed in the
> win32com.client.constants instance, which is internally a sequence of
> dictionaries.  Wouldn't it be better to have the constants available in
> the object returned by the Dispatch() call itself, maybe in a _constants
> property?  I'm also wondering how VB does this...
>
> My second 'complaint' is about the event handlers.  It seems win32com
> prepends 'On' to the method handler names if the method itself, as
> defined in the type library, doesn't already start with 'On'.  Take
> Internetexplorer as an example.  The DWebBrowserEvents2 outgoing
> interface has methods named "BeforeNavigate2", "NavigateComplete2", and
> "OnQuit".  The handlers in Python then must be named
> "OnBeforeNavigate2", "OnNavigateComplete2", and "OnQuit".  The method
> names look nice in the Python class implementation, and their templates
> are also available as commented out code in the makepy generated files,
> but looking at the Internet Explorer type library with Oleview, I find
> this very confusing.  What is the reason that it was chosen this way?

Maybe this has to do with the fact (I didn't know this before) that
DispatchWithEvents(progid, user_event_class) returns an instance of a
class which has user_event_class as one of its base classes.  So, all
the COM methods, properties, and even the event handler methods share a
common namespace.

Thomas




From steve at ferg.org  Wed Mar  3 12:57:09 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 09:57:09 -0800
Subject: Python job opening at GPO in Washington, DC
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0403030957.21a0c216@posting.google.com>

For more info:

http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=21114613&AVSDM=2004%2D02%2D27+12%3A45%3A03&Logo=0&col=dltc&cy=&brd=3876&lid=&fn=&q=python

I just saw this opening posted.  It is a Federal government position
(GS-13) at the Government Printing Office, Washington, DC, right
across the street from where I work.

1. Extensive knowledge of object-oriented programming.
2. Extensive knowledge of XML and XSLT.
3. Extensive knowledge of Linux/Unix Operating Systems.
4. Extensive knowledge of either the Python and/or C Sharp language.
5. Expert knowledge of operating systems and programming languages in
order to write and debug complex computer programs.
6. Ability to write detailed specifications for any new application
need by the department.

-- Steve Ferg (ferg_s at bls.gov)


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Tue Mar 30 09:46:12 2004
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:46:12 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <UKfac.55410$au1.3237957@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> 
>> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's 
>> just so slow to initialise in the first place. 
> 
> I don't understand this, though it's been mentioned before.
> 
> On my machine, launching the wxPython Demo app takes roughly 0 seconds
> before the splash screen appears, and I can immediately click on it
> and get the app itself, for a total launch time of: immeasurably fast.
> 
> I would think, given the size of the demo itself, that just about
> anything it does should be representative of other apps on the
> same machine.

Whenever I make even the smallest wxPython program, it takes multiple 
seconds before the window is visible. Last time I tried was on a Pentium 
4-M 2.2 GHz with 512 MB of RAM. Not a slow machine, and other software 
runs just fine.

It's really annoying, and nothing I do seems to improve the situation.

-- 
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Mar 27 06:07:24 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 12:07:24 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b840abf4.0403221108.7f5edd26@posting.google.com>
	<c3qdvr$b8n$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b840abf4.0403240019.36288d6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7y8pmpmz7.fsf@handshake.de>

artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR) writes on 24 Mar 2004 00:19:19 -0800:
> By "current" I meant search in current package first. Anyway, I
> thought it over and concluded that the behavior proposed in the PEP,
> whether it makes more sense than what is now or not, is at least
> closer to what is practiced on POSIX systems for search path: Current
> directory is not in the search path, you have to say explicitly that
> you're running the program from current dir (like "./script").

But you can easily add "." to the search path.

I agree that it will not be an option for Python to make the behaviour
dependent on a site specific configuration option.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 21 13:16:04 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:16:04 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <105rn19dr7knv64@news.supernews.com>

"Marco Bubke" <marco at bubke.de> wrote in message
news:c3kh9o$th$1 at graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de...
> Hi
>
> I have read some mail on the dev mailing list about PEP 318 and find the
new
> Syntax really ugly.

There doesn't seem to be a really beautiful
syntax for this. That's the reason it wasn't
in 2.2.

My personal opinion is that I'll take whatever
the core developers decide is best.

John Roth




From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 26 16:23:02 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:23:02 -0800
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F6F@opus.amorhq.net>

Nathan Johns wrote:
> Thanks. I thought I would need to break up the list, just 
> didn't know how. 
> BTW, not in school anymore :P, just trying to do a little 
> extra at work, 
> engineers are such busy people.
> 
> What I want is to sort and lowercase everything BUT comments. 
> For example, a 
> piece of the file might look like this:
> 
> foo at bar.com                          #ABC
> FOO at BAR.COM                       #DEF
> Foo at Bar.Com                         #HIJ

I assume the first # in any given line means the rest of the line is a
comment (even if there are further #-signs in that line)? If so, use
split to handle each line:


try:
    body, comment = line.split("#", 1)
except ValueError:
    body, comment = line, ''
body = body.lower()
outfile.write(body)
if comment:
    outfile.write(comment)
outfile.write('\n')

Don't bother adding body and comment back together with a '+'; that
would just waste resources.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From lucat at despammed.com  Mon Mar 15 15:28:47 2004
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca T.)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:28:47 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
Message-ID: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ok...
Now...
I made this simple program as a test:

import popen2
r,w,e = popen2.popen3('su -c ls')
for line in e.readlines():
	print 'E: ' + line
for line in r.readlines():
	print 'R: ' + line

r.close
w.close
e.close

In few words, it runs "su -c ls", and it should tell me what it writes 
in stdout and stderr.

Now... this is what i get:

[luca at ATH2000 tmp]$ python test.py
E: standard in must be a tty

So it seems that "su" refuses to work if it is run like this.
Now, beside "sudo" that i CANNOT use because i don't want to change the 
configuration of the user's comp... any idea about how i could run a 
program as root from inside my python program?

Thanx,
   Luca


From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Mar 30 13:00:51 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:00:51 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <nBiac.42307$PY.17419@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> This is not a troll posting, and I've refrained from
> asking because I've seen similar threads get all
> nitter-nattery.
[snip: poster is basically asking "Should I learn Perl or Python?"]

While availability of libraries for your specific tasks is a major
factor to take into consideration, I'd say that even more important is
to figure out which language fits your brain.

I first learned Perl, then Python. I now use Python almost exclusively,
because I found that Python fits my mental "map" much better than Perl
does. To me, it seemed like in Perl, everything was a string. Sure, you
could have objects and classes, but they felt strange and awkward -- how
do I translate the "bless" keyword into my mental model? Whereas
Python's object model translated perfectly into my mental map, to the
point where programming in Python gave a clarity that I never had when
using Perl. It's hard to explain why, exactly -- it just seemed like
when using Perl, I was always going back down to the level of details,
the trees in the forest. Python allows me to look at the entire forest.
I can still go down and look at trees if I need to, but I don't have to
operate in that mode all the time.

Your mileage *will* vary. There's no substitute for experience. Set
yourself a simple task (say, writing a sieve of Eratosthenes program)
that you could do in about an hour with a language you're familiar with.
Then write the same program in Perl and in Python, and see which one
fits *your* brain better.

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 11 13:15:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:15:56 -0500
Subject: backquote
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1051b9qpslm75b2@news.supernews.com>

"Paul McGuire" <bogus at bogus.net> wrote in message
news:OW14c.904$vI3.875 at fe2.texas.rr.com...
> "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >     Olaf> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?
> >     Olaf> Trying to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your
help.
> >
> > `object` is equivalent to repr(object).
> >
> > Skip
> >
> Is this syntax one of those vestigial short-cuts that is on somebody's hit
> list for future deprecation?  To my eyes, `object` is more arcane than
> repr(object) - why else would we be having this thread in the first place?

I believe so. It's scheduled for removal in Python 3.0 or at the heat
death of the universe, whichever comes first.

John Roth
>
> -- Paul
>
>




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 25 15:44:05 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:44:05 -0600
Subject: execute shell command pipeline
In-Reply-To: <8757b529.0403251215.29333930@posting.google.com>
References: <8757b529.0403251215.29333930@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040325204403.GE16608@unpythonic.net>

The Python library manual says (http://python.org/doc/lib/module-signal.html)
    Python installs a small number of signal handlers by default: SIGPIPE
    is ignored (so write errors on pipes and sockets can be reported as
    ordinary Python exceptions) and SIGINT is translated into a
    KeyboardInterrupt exception. All of these can be overridden.
In perl, or from the shell, grep is terminated by SIGPIPE.  In Python,
grep ignores the signal because the "ignored" status of SIGPIPE is
inherited by the child process.  Instead, it prints the error once for
each write that returns -EPIPE.

Jeff



From elrik-de-melnibone at ifrance.com  Mon Mar 29 10:51:36 2004
From: elrik-de-melnibone at ifrance.com (elrik)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 07:51:36 -0800
Subject: doing my pipe between 2 process
Message-ID: <762279de.0403290751.33c68eff@posting.google.com>

I want catch stdout and stderr of an child process and read them with
the parent process.
It's like popen4 but wihout shell commande.

something like that :

r, w = os.pipe()
input= os.fdopen(w)
pid=os.fork()
if pid: #parent
	while 1:
		input.read()
else:
	os.dup2(w, sys.stdout.fileno())
	print 'exemple'
	sys.stdout.flush()

but il doesn't work!
How can i make a write AND read file descriptor ?
Thanks


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 09:32:17 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:32:17 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Aahz wrote:

>>Right.  I am aware that freezing is the optimal way to distribute
>>apps written in Python today.  After trying out Java though, I have
>>to say I'm impressed with the way you can take a bunch of class
>>files archived in the exact same jarfile to *ANY* computer with a
>>JRE installed, type in java -jar jarfile and have it run _identically_.
> 
> Really?  I'm sorry, I have just a tiny bit of difficulty believing that,
> considering all the stories i've heard about Java not being completely
> cross-platform and cross-version.  I am sure that simple cases work as
> you describe, but I'd like a cite for Java working as you describe in
> general.

Yes.  Java works like that and has for a long time already.  One of the
most notable examples i can give is the SVG viewer Batik (not a trivial
program).  Worked liked a charm on both Linux and Win32, and it does not
rely on an exact JRE on which it will run on properly.  Virtually all
the Swing apps you can try out will work just as reliably and identically
on different platforms as Batik.

The real problem for me is that Java's sound and graphics APIs are not
up to par.  Also, the language is clearly not as nice as Python.  But
Java _is_ pretty cool and it is a solid (albeit somewhat resource hungry)
piece of technology.


From savexchadmin at redrock.net.au  Tue Mar  9 05:33:40 2004
From: savexchadmin at redrock.net.au (savexchadmin at redrock.net.au)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:33:40 +1100
Subject: Symantec Mail Security detected an unrepairable virus in a message
	you sent (SYM:30676531662079819383)
Message-ID: <036a01c405c1$fd4c4e80$0164a8c0@redrock.net.au>

Subject of the message: Re: Your software
Recipient of the message: Kevin Davies






From deets_noospaam at web.de  Mon Mar  1 16:58:56 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:58:56 +0100
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
References: <ea2ed14f.0403011151.406ab5ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c20bn1$88a$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Does anyone have any recommendation of what frameworks/libraries to
> use?  I am kind of worry about mixing all these libraries/frameworks
> together for them to play nicely... Would pygame help simplify?

I did s/t similar, using twisted and pygame- worked great. I just checked if
pygame supports chinese characters - it does! At least on my linux-box,
with a chinese ttf I can get it to work. I actually had to use a chinese
spam - who could have thought that spam can be actually useful?

However, consider what allen said.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar 16 20:22:15 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:22:15 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c388ik$24slfg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <roy-5C13A4.20221416032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <c388ik$24slfg$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>,
 "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> > Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string 
> > "four",
> 
> Actually, C++ (and C) will:
> 
> cosc353% cat foo.c
> #include <stdio.h>
> main() {
>    const char *s = "four" + 3;
>    printf("%s\n", s);
> }
> cosc353% g++ foo.c -o foo
> cosc353% foo
> r

I can't believe I forgot about that!  Of course, if we're going to play 
those games, there's always:

Roy-Smiths-Computer:play$ cat sub.c
main ()
{
    printf ("%d\n", "eight" - "sixteen");
    exit (0);
}
Roy-Smiths-Computer:play$ ./sub
-8


From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Thu Mar 25 08:56:51 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:56:51 +0100
Subject: DB-API 2.0 compliant modules
In-Reply-To: <4062C0A7.6070001@zslide.com>
References: <4062C0A7.6070001@zslide.com>
Message-ID: <4062E523.8060303@zslide.com>

what about using dbexts ?
Does anybody know this module ?

vincent Salaun a ?crit :

> hi,
>
> i'd like to know if zxJDBC and MySQLdb are both DB-API 2.0 compliant ....
> I've read that zxJDBC were providing "a _nearly_ 100% Python DB API 
> 2.0 compliant interface for database connectivity in Jython" ... did 
> anybody tried that for real ?
>
> In fact, i want to re-use some python code using MySQLdb in a jython 
> script but jython doesn't support MySQLdb (because it uses a C 
> interface : _mysql) : that's why i have to use zxJDBC ...
>
> thx,
> vince.
>



From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 14:08:54 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:08:54 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<grn4c.2753$G3.22466@localhost>
Message-ID: <ba1450tvgdttth3ddu88qjevsv9k5b1tpb@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:34:36 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:45:24 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least 
>>> until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one 
>>> problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its behaviour.
>> 
>> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when what you
>> need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace every
>> reference to objects in the old module with references to the new
>> objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when those
>> references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.
>
> I don't consider this a problem with reload, I consider it a design 
> defect.  If there's a need for such a thing, it should be designed in to 
> the application, and certainly one would remove the "scattering" of 
> objects such as these which are about to be replaced en masse.

I agree, most programs should not have 'reload()' designed in, and
those that do, should be well aware of its limitations.  I'm concerned
more about interactive use, specifically of programs which cannot be
conveniently restarted from the beginning.  I guess I'm spoiled by HP
BASIC, where you can change the program statements while the program
is running! (half wink)

>>>I think that when you consider Python's namespace mechanism, you can't 
>>>avoid the possibility of situations like the ones reload can now lead to.
>> 
>> I don't understand.  My assumption is you would normally update all
>> references to the selected objects in all namespaces.
>
>I guess we're coming at this from different viewpoints.  My comments 
>above should probably explain why I said that.  Basically, it seems to 
>me very unlikely there are good use cases for wanting to update the 
>classes behind the backs of objects regardless of where references to 
>them are bound.  I'm open to suggestions though.

Objects derived from classes are a different, and probably unsolvable
problem.  Attempting to update those would be like trying to put the
program in the state it would have been, had the module changes been
done some time in the past.  We would have to remember the values at
the time the object was created of all variables that went into the
__init__ call.  Classes don't have this problem, and they should be
updatable.

Here is a use-case for classes. I've got hundreds of variables in a
huge hierarchy of "statefiles".  In my program, that hierarchy is
handled as a hierarchy of classes.  If I want to access a particular
variable, I say something like:
wavescan.window1.plot2.xaxis.label.font.size = 12
These classes have no methods, just names and values and other
classes.

If I reload a module that changes some of those variables, I would
like to not have to hunt down every reference in the running program
and change it manually.

-- Dave



From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Mar 14 23:15:39 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 20:15:39 -0800
Subject: xml.minidom and threads
References: <9106c987.0403120759.6b1df015@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0403142015.6204c76a@posting.google.com>

sunilmovva at hotmail.com (Sunil Movva) wrote in message news:<9106c987.0403120759.6b1df015 at posting.google.com>...
> I have an application that uses xml to communicate between threads.
> One of the threads in my app creates an xml message and sends it to a
> second thread. This second thread parses the message and creates a new
> xml message copying most part of the first message and sends it to a
> third thread. The second thread was able to parse the message, while
> the third thread is not able to parse the message that it received. I
> am using minidom implementation of DOM to parse the messages. I am not
> validating the messages.
> So, I wrote this out to a file from the third thread and am able to
> parse this from a stand alone non-threaded app.
> I thought it might be an encoding issue, so I converted to utf-8 and
> it still does not parse it.
> 
> The error message I get is here...
>   File "KQMLMessage.py", line 224, in CreateMessage
>     domDoc = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(message)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 967, in
> parseString
>     return _doparse(pulldom.parseString, args, kwargs)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 954, in _doparse
>     toktype, rootNode = events.getEvent()
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/pulldom.py", line 255, in getEvent
>     self.parser.feed(buf)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 149, in feed
>     self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/handler.py", line 38, in
> fatalError
>     raise exception
> SAXParseException: <unknown>:1:1: not well-formed (invalid token)
> 
> So, I came to suspect if xml.minidom module is thread-safe. 
> Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

I agree this sounds as if minidom isn't thread safe.  If so the
fastest way to get this fixed is to come up with a simple test case
and post a bug to:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=6473&atid=106473

--Uche


From daniel at syrinx.net  Fri Mar 26 17:09:04 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:09:04 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c429js$2ddf7r$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:54 +0000, Peter Hickman
> <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
>
> >Well after all this discussion it would appear that a 'Python like'
> >language has appeared => Prothon. http://www.prothon.org/index.html
> >
> >Very alpha, sort of like Python (if you consider the indenting is what
> >makes Python unique) and sort of Ruby in its use of prefixes to define
> >scoping etc (although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed
> >from Ruby). It also quotes Self as being an influence.
>
> What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
> use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
> some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
> to be just templates to produce other objects.
>
> I downloaded the interpreter, and it installed flawlessly on my XP
> machine!  I ran through the examples from their webpage, and they
> worked as shown!  As I am generating objects from prototypes, I am
> thinking - How can this be so simple?  Surely we must need classes for
> something.  What about static methods?  Is all of this just cruft in
> Python?
>
> The torture never stops. :>)
>
> -- Dave
>

That's what I love about prototype-based languages: they're just so simple.
Class-based language suffer from the meta-class complication, where in
Prothon (or in Self, or JavaScript, or Io, etc.) this is a non-issue.

If the Prothon people can somehow convert the Python libraries, we'll have a
very interesting situation...

Daniel Ellison




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 13:38:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:38:20 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <Lun4c.2754$G3.22514@localhost>

Bart Nessux wrote:

> I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is there a way to
> encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing the file, but
> when the sting is used it's decoded? 

No.


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Mar 30 08:06:41 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:06:41 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406970e1$0$7640$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
> 
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.

Not noticed this myself but I would like to add here that wxPython is 
wonderfully portable. I have run wxPython apps on my OSX machine that 
were developed exclusively on a Windows machine without any problems.

Portability is my biggest concern when writing GUI code so I would push 
for wxPython.


From no at spam.invalid  Thu Mar  4 15:51:12 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:51:12 -0800
Subject: tkFileDialog.askopenfilename
References: <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c284sa$fpo$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773 at posting.google.com>,
 srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner) wrote:

>tkFileDialog.askopenfilename only allows you to open an existing file.
> I want to allow my users to enter a new filename in the dialog box. 
>Can anyone help?

Try:
tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename

By the way, your installation probably has the source code; if so, this 
file is in <python root>/lib/lib-tk/ (if you don't have source it can be 
downloaded from python.org and individual files can be examined at 
sourceforge). I've found looking at the Tkinter-related files quite 
useful for figuring out stuff like this. In particular, I've found it 
helpful to look through tkFileDialog.py, tkFont.py and Tkinter.py.

-- Russell


From python at g2swaroop.net  Fri Mar  5 03:52:44 2004
From: python at g2swaroop.net (Swaroop C H)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 00:52:44 -0800
Subject: Python Event in India ..
References: <mailman.6.1078410253.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5168381b.0403050052.9817a80@posting.google.com>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message news:<mailman.6.1078410253.24397.python-list at python.org>...
> --- Somesh Bartakkay <s4somesh at yahoo.co.in> wrote: >
> Am basically from India - Pune.
> > here is very less (say NO) Python AwareNess ..
> > so i wanna increase it..
> > am trying in my own way but for making it in VERY
> > proffesional manner
> > and on very HIGH level ...its necessary to arrange
> > Python Event here.
> > 
> > shall anyone guide me how it is possible ?
> > Python Even in INDIA will surely PAY gr8 brains to
> > Python Community
> > ...
> > 
> > 
> > somesh
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 
> 
> I know for fact that there's no PyUG anywhere in
> India. I doubt, it would be possible to have an
> "event" on Python at Pune.
> 
> If you want to evangelize the use of Python, you
> should  start off by introducing CS folks to the
> language, etc.
> 
> If you need a set of introductory slides, I have 'em
> at
> http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python-seminar-210204/slides/pySlide1.jpg.htm
> :-)


Hey,

    A Python event in India ! Great, I can help in anyway I can.

 - Swaroop
python at g2swaroop.net


From llothar at web.de  Tue Mar  9 08:40:34 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 05:40:34 -0800
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
	<6ee58e07.0403051620.40d3b42@posting.google.com>
	<84hdwz0y4k.fsf@tecont.de>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403090540.7cff9e8c@posting.google.com>

Ralf Muschall <ralf at tecont.de> wrote in message news:<84hdwz0y4k.fsf at tecont.de>...

> It might fail in two cases that come to my mind:
> 
> 1. "/lost/file1.mp3": ((33188, 884738L, 774L, 1, 0, 0, 1463L,
>      1054331223, 991209287, 1054333751), "File content"),
> 
>    being replaced by
> 
>    "/lost/file1.iso": ((33188, 884738L, 774L, 1, 0, 0, 2147483648L,
>      1054331223, 991209287, 1054333751), "File content"),
> 
>    (with stat(thingy)[6] being the size)

Okay, but it with all tests the overall principle is make test data as
small as possible.

> 2. if absolute pathnames are relevant (e.g. for OS administration).

One of the main results of test driven development is that maybe an
architecture must be changed to support unit tests. And having
absolute fixed path names is as bad as adding literals for
host,port,username,password of a database connection.


From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Wed Mar 24 08:56:37 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:56:37 -0600
Subject: Python for large projects
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8507A81ECF@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

I agree, Python is great but Smalltalk still rules...

Especially the development environments. If Python would have had the same IDE it could so much more powerful.
Still don't understand that no commercial products are available that even come close to that.
I would like to pay for it. Mature plugins in Eclipse, a 'P'Builder from Borland.....

Still, nothing compares to IDE's like VisualAge for Smalltalk. Indeed, so productive.

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+vincent.raaijmakers=ge.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+vincent.raaijmakers=ge.com at python.org]On
Behalf Of Jay O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:35 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python for large projects


Cameron Laird wrote:

 > If you have a big job, you *particularly* need to look at Python (or Erlang,
> or Eiffel, or ...)

I like Python but for big jobs I really prefer Smalltalk.   It's gets better 
runtime performance for most big apps, especially involving complicated object 
models in memory, and the development environments are extremely productive.

Take care,
Jay

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From rynt at 9yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 11:17:03 2004
From: rynt at 9yahoo.com (R Baumann)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:17:03 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <106lrnu8g89iq75@corp.supernews.com>

I belong to several newsgroups, some prefer top-posting, and some prefer
bottom posting.  A few posters will spend the time to intersperse their
replies. And a few will even split a post into additional posts to reply
specifically to each question or comment that was made in a previous
post(pretty anal).  Personally, I don't care how you post, it doesn't
irritate me a bit whether the post is top or bottom, replies interspersed,
or broken into multiple posts. My only real irritation, is the people that
feel that they have to include all the prior postings in the thread in their
post.  I know what the thread's about, and if I want to see the previous
posts, I know how to go back and look at them.  I'm just interested in the
answer(s).  Period.

My point being?...There's no "correct" way to reply to a post.  Out of
courtesy, one follows the "standard" of the newsgroup one is participating
in.  Complaining whether one top posts or bottom posts is just a waste of
time, and you, me, we, all know it.  We just don't have anything better to
do but bitch, right?

This particular silly argument always has the same effect; it gets us
off-topic from the original post, and for those of us trying to follow that
topic, this is more irritating than whether one is "posting in the approved
manner".  This thread was renamed to a different subject, but that was a
half-dozen rants later in the thread than it needed to be.

Get my point?  Naw, too much to expect.  I've wasted both your time and my
time with my own rant against your rants. :-)


A lot of you guys seem far more interested in starting arguments and keeping
them running, than you are discussing the pros and cons of Python and
providing helpful answers.  Rein in your egos, no one, and I include myself,
has anything helpful to contribute in this kind of  "dust-up".





From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 15:38:06 2004
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:38:06 +0000
Subject: py2exe - omitting DLLs (not Python extensions!) from the
 distribution
Message-ID: <1xo3yt01.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

I have a Python application, which uses cx_Oracle for database access.
I am wrapping it up into an EXE using py2exe - the result is very
nice, and easy to distribute. However, the dependency tracking picks
up OCI.dll as a dependency of cx_Oracle. Now, OCI.dll is actually an
Oracle-supplied DLL, part of the Oracle client. I definitely *don't*
want to include this in my built distribution, as it depends on the
version of the Oracle client installed, and this may differ between
the build machine and the target machine.

I've tried the --exclude option, but this doesn't work (probably as
OCI.dll isn't a Python module).

I'd rather not have to remember to delete OCI.dll as part of the build
process.

I've searched the py2exe documentation, but I can't see a way of doing
this. Can anyone suggest a way?

Thanks,
Paul
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 16 13:58:23 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:58:23 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.37.1079449131.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <42je50p1ephn4uoksbpjjoa8e05otp43le@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:58:38 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:
[snip]
>It seems to me that you have a continuum from "don't update anything" to
>"track and update everything":
>
>    don't update       update global       update all direct      update
>      anything         funcs/classes           references       everything
>
>      reload()         super_reload()            Dave            nobody?
>
>Other ideas have been mentioned, like fiddling the __bases__ of existing
>instances or updating active local variables.  I'm not sure precisely where
>those concepts fall on the continuum.  Certainly to the right of
>super_reload() though.
>
>In my opinion you do what's easy as a first step then extend it as you can.
>I think you have to punt on shared objects (ints, None, etc).  This isn't
>worth changing the semantics of the language even in some sort of
>interactive debug mode.

I agree, punt is the right play for now, but I want to make one
clarification, in case we need to re-open this question.  The semantic
change we are talking about applies only to the 'is' operator, and
only to a few immutable objects which are created via a reload of a
module in "debug" mode.  All other objects, including those from other
modules remain unchanged.  Objects like None, 1, 'abc', which are
treated as shared objects in normal modules, will be given a unique ID
when loaded from a module in debug mode.  This means you will have to
use '==' to test equality of those objects, not 'is'.  Since 'is' is
already a tricky, implementation-dependent operator that is best
avoided in these situations, the impact of this added option seems far
less than "changing the semantics of the language".

I'll hold off on any push for expanding super_reload until I have a
good use case.  Meanwhile, I'll assume I can work with the existing
reload.  This will probably involve a combination of programming
discipline and user education.  In programming, I'll do what I can to
avoid problems with the modules I expect will be reloaded.  Where
"direct" references are made to constants or other objects in a
reloaded module, I'll be sure to refresh those references at the
beginning of each code section.  In my user manual, there will
probably be statements like:  """Don't attempt to reload the stats
module while a simulator is active.  The reload function can save
having to restart your entire session, but it does not update
functions or data that have already been sent to the simulator.  As
with reloading statefiles, always kill and restart the simulator after
a reload of the stats module."""

>Sitting for long periods in an interactive session and expecting it to track
>your changes is foreign to me.  I will admit to doing stuff like this for
>short sessions:
>
>    >>> import foo
>    >>> x = foo.Foo(...)
>    >>> x.do_it()
>    ...
>    TypeError ...
>    >>> # damn! tweak foo.Foo class in emacs
>    >>> reload(foo)
>    >>> x = foo.Foo(...)
>    >>> x.do_it()
>    ...
>
>but that's relatively rare, doesn't go on for many cycles, and is only made
>tolerable by the presence of readline/command retrieval/copy-n-paste in the
>interactive environment.
>
>Maybe it's just the nature of your users and their background, but an
>(edit/test/run)+ cycle seems much more common in the Python community than a
>run/(edit/reload)+ cycle.  Note the missing "test" from the second cycle and
>from the above pseudo-transcript.  I think some Python programmers would
>take the opportunity to add an extra test case to their code in the first
>cycle, where in the second cycle the testing is going on at the interactive
>prompt where it can get lost.  "I don't need to write a test case.  It will
>just slow me down.  The interactive session will tell me when I've got it
>right."  Of course, once the interactive sessions has ended, the sequence of
>statements you executed is not automatically saved.  You still need to pop
>back to your editor to take care of that.  It's a small matter of
>discipline, but then so is not creating aliases in the first place.

This is a good description of the program development cycle.  My users
(circuit design engineers) won't be doing program development, but
will be making changes in existing data and functions.  My goal is to
make that as easy as possible. The biggest step is offering Python as
the scripting language, rather than SKILL, OCEAN, MDL, or a number of
other CPL's ( complex proprietary languages ).  I expect them to learn
in two days enough Python to understand a function definition, and to
be able to edit that definition, making it do whatever they want.

>    Dave> Reload() will always be a function that needs to be used
>    Dave> cautiously.  Changes in a running program can propagate in strange
>    Dave> ways.  "Train wreck" was the term another poster used.
>
>Precisely.  You may wind up making reload() easier to explain in the common
>case, but introduce subtleties which are tougher to predict (instances whose
>__bases__ change or don't change depending how far along the above continuum
>you take things).  I think changing the definitions of functions and classes
>will be the much more likely result of edits requiring reloads than tweaking
>small integers or strings.  Forcing people to recreate instances is
>generally not that big of a deal.
>
>Finally, I will drag the last line out of Tim's "The Zen of Python":
>
>    Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
>
>By making it easier for your users to get away with aliases like
>
>    x = M1.x
>
>you erode the namespace concept ever so slightly just to save typing a
>couple extra characters or executing a couple extra bytecodes.  Why can't
>they just type M1.x again?  I don't think the savings is really worth it in
>the long run.

    def h23(freq):
        s = complex(2*pi*freq)
        h0 = PZfuncs.h0
        z1 = PZfuncs.z1; z2 = PZfuncs.z2
        p1 = PZfuncs.p1; p2 = PZfuncs.p2; p3 = PZfuncs.p3
        return h0*(s-z1)*(s-z2)/((s-p1)*(s-p2)*(s-p3))

Notice the clarity in that last formula.  This is a standard form of a
pole-zero transfer function that will be instantly recognized by a
circuit design engineer.  The issue isn't the typing of extra
characters, but the compactness of expressions.

In this case we avoid the problem of local variables out-of-sync with
a reloaded module by refreshing those variables with every call to the
function.  In other cases, this may add too much overhead to the
computation.

-- Dave



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  9 10:11:20 2004
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:11:20 -0700
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2jpre$hlu$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c2kmis$1v97u9$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| ....
| If you would like an attached "class browser", 
| and don't mind having tabbed editing functionality, 
| PyPE may suit you (http://pype.sourceforge.net), 
| also requires wxPython.
| ....

Josiah .... 

  I've been using PyPE for a few weeks
  and find it to be  VERY  usable 
  for editing Python code ....

  The included class browser is especially nice .... 

  Thanks for providing this program ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From otto_kruse at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 05:30:04 2004
From: otto_kruse at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Otto_Kr=FCse?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:30:04 +0100
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
In-Reply-To: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <40503fab$0$77281$abc4f4c3@news.wanadoo.nl>

GrelEns wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> i need advices on this : having all files are text files, 1 is an index
> (6mo) to another big data file (20mb), i can not put that in a database and
> must work from raw files.
> 
> i've tried to design an oo interface to theses files, well, it took 10
> minutes to just load and build the whole wrapper objects (really simple
> ones - with not the full logic behind) and it tooks 446mb of memoy! ('top'
> command executed while loading to check). if i use tuples instead of objects
> it still need about 2 minutes and 240mb...
> 
> as i did not need all data in memory at a moment but only index and then
> follow to some data, please have you any clue on how i can handle this ?
> having to load only index tooks less than 1 minutes and only 60mb in memory
> which is acceptable, but if i read data directly from a disk it is
> desperatly slow...
> 
> thanks a lot,
> 
> 

How do you access and read the .txt files? Could you give the commands 
you use?

For example; if you use readlines() the whole txt file gets loaded in 
memory, use readline() instead, this way lines are read one by one.


From anne.nospam01 at wangnick.de  Sun Mar 14 10:03:37 2004
From: anne.nospam01 at wangnick.de (Sebastian Wangnick)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 07:03:37 -0800
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 doesn't find modules, 0.4.2 did
Message-ID: <457287de.0403140703.5dbb026d@posting.google.com>

Dear all,

I try to build an executable from a python program which uses a
package called astrolabe. I'm using the following keyword parameters
to setup:
    packages=["astrolabe"],
    package_dir={"astrolabe":"astrolabe/lib/python/astrolabe"}

The directory astrolabe/lib/python/astrolabe properly contains
__init__.py. It's modules are used in my software as follows:
    import os.path
    import sys
    sys.path.append(os.path.normpath('./astrolabe/lib/python'))
    import astrolabe.globals
    import astrolabe.equinox
    import astrolabe.constants

Version 0.4.2 of py2exe did properly find the astrolabe modules, but
version 0.5.0 doesn't find them anymore.

I'm running Python 2.3.3 on Windows XP.

Any clue?

Regards,
Sebastian


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 15:15:19 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:15:19 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <106lrnu8g89iq75@corp.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<106lrnu8g89iq75@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <zFFac.13468$j57.743706@news20.bellglobal.com>

Amen!  Well said, Mr. Baumann.

R Baumann wrote:

> I belong to several newsgroups, some prefer top-posting, and some prefer
> bottom posting.  A few posters will spend the time to intersperse their
> replies. And a few will even split a post into additional posts to reply
> specifically to each question or comment that was made in a previous
> post(pretty anal).  Personally, I don't care how you post, it doesn't
> irritate me a bit whether the post is top or bottom, replies interspersed,
> or broken into multiple posts. My only real irritation, is the people that
> feel that they have to include all the prior postings in the thread in their
> post.  I know what the thread's about, and if I want to see the previous
> posts, I know how to go back and look at them.  I'm just interested in the
> answer(s).  Period.
> 
> My point being?...There's no "correct" way to reply to a post.  Out of
> courtesy, one follows the "standard" of the newsgroup one is participating
> in.  Complaining whether one top posts or bottom posts is just a waste of
> time, and you, me, we, all know it.  We just don't have anything better to
> do but bitch, right?
> 
> This particular silly argument always has the same effect; it gets us
> off-topic from the original post, and for those of us trying to follow that
> topic, this is more irritating than whether one is "posting in the approved
> manner".  This thread was renamed to a different subject, but that was a
> half-dozen rants later in the thread than it needed to be.
> 
> Get my point?  Naw, too much to expect.  I've wasted both your time and my
> time with my own rant against your rants. :-)
> 
> 
> A lot of you guys seem far more interested in starting arguments and keeping
> them running, than you are discussing the pros and cons of Python and
> providing helpful answers.  Rein in your egos, no one, and I include myself,
> has anything helpful to contribute in this kind of  "dust-up".
> 
> 
> 


From allan_NOSPAMcuenca at nospamyahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 18:54:51 2004
From: allan_NOSPAMcuenca at nospamyahoo.com (allanc)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:54:51 GMT
Subject: ftp mget
Message-ID: <Xns94B7A13148CE8acuencacanadacom@198.161.157.145>

Anybody know if there's an ftp client in python that can do an mget?

My current implementation of an mget uses ftpconnection.nlst() to retrieve 
the list of filenames. Then iterates through this list with
retrlines('RETR ' + fname,callback).

I'd like to eliminate a LIST command on the ftp server altogether.

Thanks to all.

Allan


From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 15:18:53 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Reading 'received' headers: Email Headers Parsing
Message-ID: <20040303201853.8976.qmail@web60807.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I am a new bie experimenting with python.
I have this piece of code to parse the received
headers from emails. However, when I run with a file
as an argument it skips lines like: 1, 3, 5 etc...
I see why is this so : Its because of the 
msg=mbox.next()
But I dont know how to fix this: I mean I dont know
how I can stay at the current one and then when I am
done with the current one I shall go to
msg=mbox.next()

Any hints?

Thanks
Dont











import mailbox
import string
import email
import email.Utils
import time
import sys
import re

#open passed mailbox filename
fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

#open mailbox from file
mbox=mailbox.PortableUnixMailbox(fp)

#getcurrent time
nowtime=time.time()

#iterate over mail messages

while 1:
#get next message

        msg=mbox.next()


#exit if we have looked at the last one

        if msg == None:
                break

#get received header
        received =msg.get('received')
        print received
#skup messages with no received header
        if received == None:
                continue



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Mar 20 14:33:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:33:48 +0100
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.136.1079633391.742.python-list@python.org>
	<480e9240.0403181909.741abfa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3i6at$ei$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Jason wrote:

> My uber-abstraction is due to recently fleeing from C (abstraction
> made hard) and Lisp (no workable GUI stuff) so I'm stuck in the
> middle. Anyway, I appreciate the comments.

Not so fast. I think abstraction is *good* - only not well suited for the
inner loop of an image transformation algorithm.

Your warping seems to boil down to an affine transform, so whatever fancy
stuff you do as a preparation - with points, lines and all that nice
object-oriented stuff - you always end up with two equations

u = ax + by + c
v = dx + ey + f

and that's the only thing you should calculate repeatedly if you want
efficiency.
Using that recipe reduced calculation time for a small 350x223 pixel image
from 10 to 0.33 (0.2 with psyco) seconds. Here's the code, and I'm
confident you'll recognize it :-)

(no testing performed, but the images *do* look similar)

<warp.py>
""" call with
    --psyco to use psyco
    --old to use the original algorithm
    an image file as the *last* parameter
"""
from Tkinter import *
import Image
import ImageTk
from sys import exit
from math import sqrt

if "--psyco" in sys.argv:
    import psyco
    psyco.full()

class Point:
# A Point in the plane
    def __init__(self, int1, int2):
    # Constructor
        self.x = float(int1)
        self.y = float(int2)
    def __add__(self, other):
    # Add two points
        return Point(self.x + other.x, self.y + other.y)
    def __sub__(self, other):
    # Sub two points
        return Point(self.x - other.x, self.y - other.y)
    def __mul__(self, other):
    # Either mult by a constant or dot product
        if type(other) == float or type(other) == int:
            return Point(self.x*other, self.y*other)
        else:
            return self.x*other.x + self.y*other.y
    def __div__(self,other):
    # division by a constant
        if type(other) == float or type(other) == int:
            return Point(self.x/other, self.y/other)
    def __rmul__(self, other):
    # multiplication by a constant
        return Point(self.x*other, self.y*other)
    def __rdiv__(self, other):
    # division by a constant
        return Point(other/self.x, other/self.y)
    def __str__(self):
    # printing represenation
        return '(%s, %s)' % (self.x, self.y)
    def length(self):
    # regular length
        return sqrt(pow(self.x, 2) + pow(self.y, 2))
    def perpindicular(self):
    # 90 deg rotation
        return Point(self.y, -self.x)
    def to_tuple(self):
    # makes a tuple of ints
        return (int(self.x), int(self.y))


class WarpLine:
# The lines used to warp the image
    def __init__(self, x0, y0, x1, y1, id):
    # Constructor - just two points - id not used yet.
        self.id = 0
        self.point1 = Point(x0, y0)
        self.point2 = Point(x1, y1)
    def __str__(self):
    # Printing
        return '%s->%s' % (self.point1, self.point2)
    def length(self):
    # Segment length
        return sqrt(pow(self.point2.x-self.point1.x, 2) +
pow(self.point2.y-self.point1.y, 2))
    def getUV(self, point):
    # v = shortest distance of  point to line
    # u = the parameterization of the closest point from v
        diff = (self.point2 - self.point1)
        u = ((point - self.point1) * diff) / (diff * diff)

        v = ((point - self.point1) * diff.perpindicular()) / sqrt(diff *
diff)

        return u, v
    def transformPoint(self, line, point):
    # finds transform of point based on self and line
        diff = (line.point2 - line.point1)
        u, v = self.getUV(point)
        return line.point1 + u * diff  + (v * diff.perpindicular())
/sqrt(diff * diff)

class Picture:
    # A simple image class
    def __init__(self, file):
    # Load up an image
        self.data = Image.open(file)
    def in_bounds(self, pt):
    # is point in our bounds?
        if pt.x < 0 or pt.y < 0 or pt.x > self.data.size[0] - 1 or pt.y >
self.data.size[1] - 1:
            return 0
        else:
            return 1

    def coefficients(self, transform=None):
        orig = transform(Point(0, 0))
        p = transform(Point(1, 0)) - orig
        q = transform(Point(0, 1)) - orig
        a, b, c = p.x, q.x, orig.x
        d, e, f = p.y, q.y, orig.y
        return a, b, c, d, e, f

    def warp_new(self, source, line1, line2):
        """ psyco doesn't like lambdas, so I had to factor it out.
            Does anybody know why?
        """
        self._warp(source,
            *self.coefficients(lambda p: line1.transformPoint(line2, p)))

    def _warp(self, source, a, b, c, d, e, f):
        width, height = self.data.size
        dest = [0] * (width*height)
        src = source.data.getdata()
        yoff = 0
        for y in range(height):
            for x in range(width):
                u = int(a*x+b*y+c)
                v = int(d*x+e*y+f)
                if u >= 0 and u < width and v >= 0 and v < height:
                    dest[x + yoff] = src[u + v*width]
            yoff += width
        self.data.putdata(dest)

    def warp_old(self, source, line1, line2):
    # Do transformPoint on each pixel, save results
    # This is the slow part of the program
        dest = list(self.data.getdata())
        src = source.data.getdata()
        for x in range(0, self.data.size[0] - 1):
            for y in range(0, self.data.size[1] - 1):
                xy = line1.transformPoint(line2,Point(x,y)).to_tuple()

                if self.in_bounds(Point(xy[0], xy[1])):
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = src[xy[0] +
xy[1]*self.data.size[0]]

                else:
                    dest[x + y*self.data.size[0]] = 0

        self.data.putdata(dest)
    def show(self):
    # show the image
        root = Tk()
        canvas = Canvas(root,
width=self.data.size[0],height=self.data.size[1])
        canvas.pack()
        photo = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.data)
        disp = canvas.create_image(0, 0, anchor=NW, image=photo)
        mainloop()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    import time
    p1 = Picture(sys.argv[-1])
    line1 = WarpLine(0, 0, 200, 50, None)
    line2 = WarpLine(-100, 0, 150, 0, None)
    start = time.time()
    if "--old" in sys.argv:
        p1.warp_old(p1, line1, line2)
    else:
        p1.warp_new(p1, line1, line2)
    print time.time() - start
    p1.show()
</warp.py>

I'm sure there's room for improvement. E. g., you could devise a clipping
algorithm to not calculate all the black points. By the way, the Python
Imaging Library (PIL) has such a transform built in - but that might spoil
the fun.

Peter



From sesshomaru_2k3 at SPAMTRAP.hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 18:24:02 2004
From: sesshomaru_2k3 at SPAMTRAP.hotmail.com (Antioch)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:24:02 -0800
Subject: Question concerning Unicode and or Shift-JIS
Message-ID: <4050f410$0$40740$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Ok, so Im a newb python programmer and I'm trying to create a simple python web-application. The program is simply going to read in pairs of words, parse them into a dictionary file, then randomly display the key and prompt the user for the correct answer. Basically, its a digital flash card system with a modular "dictionary" file. 

The problem is this: I'm trying to create this program to help me study foregin languages (specifically Japanese at the moment) and when I save the txt file which houses the word pairs, it is automatically encoded into UTF. However, when getting user input, the input it natively sent to the program in Shift-JIS encoding. I downloaded CJKcodecs for python to encode a string into any number of Japanese codings, however the problem is I don't know how to "decode" the UTF and then recode it into Shift-JIS so that I can compare the dictionary values with the input values. OR, I could convert the input from Shift-JIS to UTF, but either way I don't know how to decode any of the codecs. I'm sure theres just some simple function call, but I have been unable to find it. 

Anyhelp would be appreciated!
Thanks =)


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Mar  6 11:56:26 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:56:26 +0100
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <mailman.63.1078583513.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
	<mailman.63.1078583513.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404a02bb$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

pxlpluker wrote:

> in essence i want to push the file name to the browser

Why do you keep repeating this message, even after it's already been answered:
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=4047a284%240%24568%24e4fe514c%40news.xs4all.nl

--Irmen


From smithwis at colorado.edu  Wed Mar  3 16:05:46 2004
From: smithwis at colorado.edu (Steve)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 13:05:46 -0800
Subject: Postgres BYTEA problems
Message-ID: <27ab36b3.0403031305.3e1ed4f7@posting.google.com>

I've searched throughout the python website and can't find an answer.

My problem:
After getting a BYTEA from a postgres database using Pygresql call:
[code]
x = Db.query("SELECT seq FROM sequence \
              WHERE version = \'NT_004350.16\' \
              AND startloc = 1 \
              AND endloc = 1120")
y = x.getresult()[0][1]
[/code]
'y' ends up containing a string of characters.  THe problem is that
many of these characters should be escaped characters.  However,
somewhere in the process the escape character itself is interpreted as
a character that must be escaped.
so if I should be getting
"\x00\x01"
I'll get
"\\x00\\x01"

My Thoughts:
1) Is there a way to somehow get a 'raw' uninterpreted input to the
string?
2) Can I possibly get the BYTEA results back as one very long Long?
3) I can just accept that this is the way I'm going to get my results
and try to convert the the string into something more usable.
   -Any ideas how I might go about doing this?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

--Steve


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Mar  9 16:25:56 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:25:56 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> schreef:

> - Note that item is bound to objects of completely different types
>   (integer, string, list, hash-table and array, in this case) at
>   different times. (This _does_ mean that it's dynamically typed.)

Yes, but 2 of the "method versions" use statically typed parameters.
So it seems this is a language that gives you the choice between dynamic 
and static typing.

Without this (optional) static typing in the language, there is no way to 
have these method versions for different parameter types.  I suppose that's 
what John Roth was thinking about when he said "but there's no way it's 
going to happen in a language that doesn't have static typing".


> Perhaps you thought that it doesn't look like dynamic typing because
> of superficial similarities with C++ method overloading:

I don't know C++ (well almost no C++), so I don't think so.  ;-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar 14 12:36:30 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:36:30 +0100
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com><9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<104se8bhc5rm477@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c32573$1bf$2@sea.gmane.org>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> >Get PIL (Python Imaging Library) if you don't already have it
> >
> >http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm/
> >
> >import Image
> >pathtogif=r'C:\xxx.gif'   # Replace with your path
> >im=Image.open(pathtogif)
> >x,y=im.size
> >im.close()
> .
> .
> .
> It doesn't require all of PIL, though, for those who
> have a reason *not* to rely on it

note that you don't need all of PIL to run the above example; it's enough
to install Image.py, ImageFile.py, ImagePalette.py, and the *ImagePlugin.py
files you need for your application.  the binary extensions are not needed.

</F>







From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 09:04:37 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:04:37 +0100
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:31:08 -0800, Michael
<mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:

>top.
>to
>bottom
>read
>to
>learn
>to
>you
>forcing
>be
>would
>this
>No,

This is actually better than top-posting. At least the reading
direction is _consistently_ upwards, rather than requiring people to
leap forwards and back through the post in a desperate attempt to find
the clues they need.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 31 01:42:15 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:42:15 +1200
Subject: Problem using MinGW to compile extension module
Message-ID: <c4dp89$2feeg2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

I'm trying to use MingGW32 to compile a Python extension module that
links with the Firebird relational database system.

I've used pexports/dlltool to create a libgds32_ms.a file containing
definitions for linking with gds32.dll, the Firebird interface
library.

All goes well until the linking, when I get

Info: resolving _isc_start_transaction by linking to 
__imp__isc_start_transaction (auto-import)
fu000001.o(.idata$3+0xc): undefined reference to `libgds32_ms_a_iname'
nmth000000.o(.idata$4+0x0): undefined reference to `_nm__isc_start_transaction'
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

I can't even tell where _nm__isc_start_transaction is coming
from -- there doesn't seem to be any symbol at all containing
the letters "nm" in either libgds32_ms.a or the .o that I'm trying
to link.

Python version is 2.3.3.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on here?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From michael at foord.net  Fri Mar 19 10:21:09 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 07:21:09 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>

I'm writing a song lyric database (effectively to drive a projector -
so the database contains the full song lyrics).

I'm using a nice simple Python database called KirbyBase which uses
regular expressions to search.

A simple search for a phrase I can handle - I think I can even build a
regular expression that ignores punctuation :-) - but I'm struggling
with implementing an expression that will find several words
independently (i.e. a basic 'search engine').

What I'd like is a reg. exp. that will match if a field contains word
1 *and* word 2 *and* word 3...... (for example) - but in no particular
order......

Can anyone offer any clues (ideally without me having to index every
song seperately from the database - which would kind of defeat the
object)...

Regards,


Fuzzyman

--

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From http  Fri Mar  5 19:42:39 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 16:42:39 -0800
Subject: Null-terminated strings with struct module?
References: <roy-F3219B.19232205032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xd67qlsao.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
>         s1 = self.directory + "\0"
>         s2 = self.fileName + "\0"
>         s3 = self.dateString + "\0"
>         s4 = self.name + "\0"
>         s5 = struct.pack ("!IB", self.id, self.perTargetFlag)
>         data = s1 + s2 + s3 + s4 + s5
> 
> which is pretty ugly.  Is there a neater way to do this?

Shrug.  

  data = "%s\0%s\0%s\0%s\0%s"% (self.directory, self.fileName,
                                self.dateString, self.name,
                                struct.pack (...))

Dunno if that's better or worse.


From wsr2 at swbell.net  Wed Mar 24 09:16:42 2004
From: wsr2 at swbell.net (Bill Rubenstein)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:16:42 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>

...snip... 
> > other thing is, that in the projects i work on, there seems to be
> > very hard to do unit tests
...snip...

The ability to do unit testing should not be an afterthought.  It should be 
considered as a major influence on the architecture of a project.

If one cannot do proper unit testing, the architecture of the project is 
questionable.

Bill



From csgcsg39 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 09:56:40 2004
From: csgcsg39 at hotmail.com (C GIllespie)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:56:40 -0000
Subject: Reading from stdin
Message-ID: <c2nab0$lr7$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I have a C program that prints out numbers 1 to 10 to stdout. I wish to pipe
this into a python script to print out the numbers, e.g. ./myCProg |
myPython.py

However, I want the python script to print out the numbers as it gets them,
since there could be hours/days between numbers - not a very efficient C
program :). Actually, I would like to read-a-line/ print-a-line/
read-a-line/etc

I have tried things like 'sys.stdin.read*' with no success.

Thanks

Colin




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar  4 20:43:36 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:43:36 -0500
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>
Message-ID: <c28m0a$hte$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Gregor Lingl" <glingl at aon.at> wrote in message
news:404778E4.9090601 at aon.at...
>So my question: why does the
> Python interpreter not recognize this identity and internally
> replace the latter by the first in order to get *much*
> better performance?

The interpreter does not do optimization.  'Optimizing' complilers are
often buggy, which is to say, grossy dis-optimized -- as has been too often
discovered, from reports here and on PyDev, when compiling the interpreter
with 'optimzing' C compilers.

> - would this lead to wrong results in some cases?

Yes.  The identity is only an identity in this context and only dependibly
so even then for dict objects.  You can easily write a class with
__contains__() and keys() methods for which optimization would be wrong.

> - or would it be too difficult to implement?

Yes, writing significantly optimizing compiler than never introduces errors
more than base, straightforward compiler seems to be difficult.  There has
been energy put into improving the byte code set that Python is
(straightforwardly) translated into and also into improving the C code that
is executed for each byte code.

> - or is this considered a problem of minor importance?

Speed is secondary to correctness, appropriately defined.

Terry J. Reedy






From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 24 13:44:55 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:44:55 +0100
Subject: splitString output as argument to string format fails?
References: <tmk8c.8739$fg3.1169@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <c3skv7$dja$02$1@news.t-online.com>

U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:

> But when I attempt something like:
> 
>     f = '%s %s %s' % string.split(eachLine, ',')
> 
> I get:
> 
> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
> 
> How do I convert the output of string.split into something the format
> operator is happy with?  I'm looking for an "oh well of COURSE" thing,
> rather than looping over the output list and creating a tuple, assuming
> one exists.

The % operator is a bit picky about the sequence type - it wants a tuple:

>>> "%sx%s" % "a,b".split(",")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string


>>> "%sx%s" % tuple("a,b".split(","))
'axb'


Peter


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 16 17:24:21 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:24:21 -0000
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <mailman.43.1079467270.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105evkldkem21c8@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.43.1079467270.742.python-list at python.org>,
Stewart Midwinter  <stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I've been studying Tkinter with an eye to using it to protoype new GUI ideas 
>for a commercial application we have written in Java (and for my own 
>enjoyment, of course!).  My thought is that we could show customers several 
>variations on new displays that would take less time to develop in Python than 
>just one new display would in Java.   We already use Python for client-server 
>communications and a number of other functions, so it's logical to extend its 
>use in this way.  (I even wonder whether it might be a good idea to actually 
>replace the Java, but that's a topic for another day...). 
>
>I've got a basic GUI set up that opens desired windows, etc.  But I'm at a 
>point where I need functionality. For example, I need to be able to fetch 
>information from a server and display it in real time in a Tkinter widget.  
>And this is where I hit a roadbloack: the Tkinter documentation I've read so 
>far (Fredrik Lundh's on-line guide, the UNM.edu book, and some others) talk 
>exclusively about how to draw widgets, not how to *use* widgets. 
>
>If the proposed list / wiki addresses those needs, it will certainly be useful 
>to *me*, and probably to many others. 
>
>Maybe it will even spur some renewed interest in expanding or extending the 
>widget set.
			.
			.
			.
I'm all in favor of Tkinter as a vehicle for trying out ideas;
I certainly do it myself.  For your situation, have you considered
Jython?  My bet is that would give you a comparable boost in pro-
ductivity.

Back to Tkinter:  are you familiar with textvariables?  How do you
access realtime database contents when you are NOT using Tkinter?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 13 13:27:25 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:27:25 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:30:04 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:
>
>    Dave> How about if we could just show the reference counts on all of the
>    Dave> reloaded objects?  
>
>That wouldn't work for immutable objects which can be shared.  Ints come to
>mind, but short strings are interned, some tuples are shared, maybe some
>floats, and of course None, True and False are.  You will have to define a
>subset of object types to display.

Just to make sure I understand this, I think what you are saying is
that if I have a module M1 that defines a value x = 3.1, it will be
impossible to keep track of the number of references to M1.x because
the object '3.1' may have other references to it from other modules
which use the same constant 3.1.  This really does make it impossible
to do a complete reload.

I'm not sure at this point if an improved reload() is worth pursuing,
but perhaps we could do something with a "debug" mode in which the
minuscule benefit of creating these shared references is bypassed, at
least for the modules that are in "debug mode".  Then it would be
possible to check after each reload and pop a warning:

>>> reload(M1)
<module 'M1' from 'M1.pyc'>
Warning:  References to objects in the old module still exist:
M1.x  (3)
M1.y  (2)
>>>

Even if we don't update all the references after a reload, it would
sure be nice to have a warning like this.  We could then avoid
creating direct (not fully-qualified) references to objects within any
module that is likely to be reloaded, and be assured that we will get
a warning if we miss one.

-- Dave



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Fri Mar 19 09:05:45 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:05:45 GMT
Subject: Python for Information Visualization
References: <c3et45$h8t$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3evl50d9hqjljl12diq1acb9te5fprmv16@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:36:53 +0000, Umesh Persad <up209 at cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Hi All,
>  I am looking for a platform to rapidly develop
>software for Information Visualization. Since
>I am working in an academic environment, I want
>to be able to develop applications quickly with minimal
>learning and problems.

http://mayavi.sourceforge.net//index.html 

And there other tools, besides, to work through Python with 
the powerful VisualizationToolkiit.

>
>I was looking to python as a solution. However, before
>I jump right in, I was wondering about the capabilities
>of Python for interactive graphical programming. I am
>also using Processing (http://processing.org/) which is good
>for quick visualization mockups.

I am curious as to why Processing does not serve your needs, in full.

Art

>
>Are there any packages for python that will allow me to develop
>interactive applications quickly? Things like having the capability
>to draw whatever shapes I want, changing the GUI to a custom look and
>feel, support for mouse and keyboard interaction, and the capability to 
>handle large amounts of data are important.
>
>Any advice in this regard would be most appreciated.
>
>Thanks for all the help!
>Umesh Persad



From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Wed Mar  3 10:33:35 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 07:33:35 -0800
Subject: pythonservice -register
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0403030733.1cb50edc@posting.google.com>

What is the pythonservice.exe for?  What does pythonservice.exe really
do?

I installed and am using ActivePython (on Windows XP).

Working on writing a Windows service in Python.  The "Python
Programming on Win32" book says I should first register the
pythonserive.  This does not seem to work (see error below).  However,
the books SmallestService seems to run anyway.

Thanks for your help.

Olaf

*** Here is the error: ***
C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32>pythonservice /register
Registering the Python Service Manager...
Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an
unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Mar  9 13:46:27 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:46:27 +0200
Subject: emai - Multiple recipenets in "To:"
Message-ID: <c2l3g5$h0f$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

Our nightly build system is supposed to send email notification on build 
status to several developers. Using SMTP and email packages I can post 
email to one user at a time, then I try to add multiple email addresses 
in the "To" field only the 1'st person gets the email.

A lot of this code is taken from the email demo.
---
VERBOSE = False
def inform(msg):
     if not VERBOSE:
         return
     print "*", msg
     stdout.flush()

def sendmail(msg, to, attachments=None, **kw):
     '''Send email
         msg - Message
         to - To address
         attachments - List of files to attach
         kw - Other keyword arguments
     '''
     main = MIMEMultipart()
     subject = kw.get("subject", "Email Message")
     inform("Subject = %s" % subject)
     main["Subject"] = subject
     _from = kw.get("from","%s at zoran.co.il" % getuser())
     inform("From = %s" % _from)
     main["From"] = _from
     to = ", ".join(list(to))
     inform("To = %s" % to)
     main["To"] = to
     main.epilogue = ""

     main.attach(MIMEText(msg))
     if attachments:
         for path in attachments:
             if not isfile(path):
                 continue
             # Guess the content type based on the file"s extension.  	
             # Encoding
             # will be ignored, although we should check for simple
             # things like
             # gzip"d or compressed files.
             ctype, encoding = guess_type(path)
             if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
                 # No guess could be made, or the file is encoded
                 # (compressed), so
                 # use a generic bag-of-bits type.
                 ctype = "application/octet-stream"
             maintype, subtype = ctype.split("/", 1)
             if maintype == "text":
                 inform("Attaching %s as text file" % path)
                 fp = open(path)
                 # Note: we should handle calculating the charset
                 msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
                 fp.close()
             elif maintype == "image":
                 inform("Attaching %s as image file" % path)
                 fp = open(path, "rb")
                 msg = MIMEImage(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
                 fp.close()
             elif maintype == "audio":
                 inform("Attaching %s as audio file" % path)
                 fp = open(path, "rb")
                 msg = MIMEAudio(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
                 fp.close()
             else:
                 inform("Attaching %s as generic file [%s]" %  \
                         (path, ctype))
                 fp = open(path, "rb")
                 msg = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype)
                 msg.set_payload(fp.read())
                 fp.close()
                 # Encode the payload using Base64
                 encode_base64(msg)
             # Set the filename parameter
             msg.add_header("Content-Disposition", "attachment",
                     filename=basename(path))
             main.attach(msg)
     s = SMTP()
     server = kw.get("server", "mail.zoran.co.il")
     inform("Connecting to %s..." % server)
     s.connect(server)
     msgstr = main.as_string()
     inform("Sending %d bytes..." % len(msgstr))
     s.sendmail(main["From"], main["To"], msgstr)
     s.close()
---

Thanks.
Miki


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Mar  4 16:30:06 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:30:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: maximum element?
References: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <c2874u$sa5$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote:
> What is the 'most pythonic' way of searching the largest element in a 
> list/tuple?

> My 'standard' idea is:

> max = list[0]   # or -infinity, or whatever...
> for i in list:
>      if i > max:
>          max = i

> While this is ok, I somehow 'feel' there could be a more concise 
> solution... :)

reduce(lambda x, y: (x, y)[x < y], list)

Sorry, couldn't resist.


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Mar  4 02:09:54 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 09:09:54 +0200
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7y8qh6qbh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "R" == R Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com> writes:

    R> [Well, this time I have decided to troll -- all because of

Ok, I get the drift.

    >> Can you tell me exactly what the PHP fwrite function did when I
    >> passed it an integer? Can you tell me how many PHP programmers
    >> test "(strlen($to_write) == fwrite($fp, $to_write))"?


    R> Ok...understand. idiot-proof?

So type safety means idiot-proofing? What do you gain by allowing
obvious errors to be silently ignored?

When a third-party library returns an object you didn't expect in
writing your code, you would surely want to know? I do.

    >> - In the specific instance of database connectivity, Python is
    >> far superior, in terms of intuitiveness, security, safety, and
    >> so on.  Python database APIs are built in a way that protects
    >> you by default.

    R> Perhaps, idiots' own language?

You still realize this is crossposted to c.l.py, right? Kindergarten
tactics don't erally work all that well here. Some observer of this
discussion might draw some conclusions about which one of the
languages is the "idiot's own language"...

    >> How easy is it to improve on both these examples to add proper
    >> error handling? Again, Python wins hands down for elegance,
    >> conciseness, and obviousness.

    R> Yes, agreed. Idiots' language.

Yes, elegance is indeed for idiots. True r0xx0r h4xxx0rz use PHP,
because it's so cryptic and looks cool because n00bs can't understand
it.

    R> comp.lang.php is not the right place for you to show your
    R> stupidity. You should consider stripping headers as many other

Neither is c.l.py. Actually, we have remarkably few idiots in c.l.py.

I don't know why I'm replying - your post kinda speaks for itself.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 17:29:37 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:29:37 -0700
Subject: Python and Multi-Physics
References: <mailman.18.1078326737.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c25m8h$8hl$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Satish Chimakurthi wrote:


> If I come to know of more succesful stories in Multi-Physics research using
> python, I would like to include them too in my presentation and emphasize the
> spirit of using python in scientific research. I know of few companies like
> CFDRC and laboratories like LLNL who use python extensively for the kind of
> research I am talking about(from web). Is there any other individual or
> company devoted to such research ? Please let me know. This information would
> be of great help to me in presenting my stuff better.

Here's a link you may find of interest:
http://www.osti.gov/scidac/updatesharrison.html

Some details of this work will be presented at an AMS regional meeting in
March:

http://e-math.ams.org/amsmtgs/2090_program_ss12.html

Look for the Saturday afternoon sessions for links to the abstracts (the talks
aren't written yet :).  All of the work at ORNL and what we at CU Boulder are
doing is in python, with C/C++ and Fortran cores for the speed-critical parts. 
I haven't put any of what we've done online yet, but I'll make sure to have
the pdfs for the AMS talks available when they're done.

A guy across the hall from me did his PhD in fluid-structure interactions
(cavitation calculations for explosions near ships), but he was using Fortran
and I've yet to convince him to switch to python :)

Cheers,

f.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Mar 29 10:06:48 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:06:48 +0200
Subject: new style classes in omniorb
Message-ID: <c49e95$2fh52i$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I currently try to use omniorb it conjunction with new-style classes. What I
want to accomplish is simple: I'd like to associate the authentication-info
the user has provided with the current thread on each method called.

However in the very moment I inherit my servant from 'object', omniORB fails
to marshal the object reference.

Has anybody overcome this limitation? One thought I had was to create a
delegating wrapper so all calls on the servant are routed to a new-style
class. But that appears somewhat ugly to me.

Thanks for any suggestions.

BTW: googling only brought up a 2002 thread on the omniorb list that wasn't
helpful - except that it stated that my problem actually exists.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch



From chris at misery.net  Sun Mar  7 12:41:32 2004
From: chris at misery.net (christofer)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 09:41:32 -0800
Subject: Socket Receive Buffer
Message-ID: <f8a2c52d.0403070941.2fd4c7c7@posting.google.com>

I am writing a small IRC type server. I also have a small test client
for obvious reasons. My problem is that when receiving input from the
server, my client sometimes ends up with two messages in the same
input buffer, which obviously causes problems. Anybody know why it is
doing this?


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  7 23:37:54 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:37:54 -0500
Subject: PythonCOM - How to get (LPDISPATCH) of myself?
Message-ID: <_MS2c.1888$6y1.257780@news20.bellglobal.com>

I have a Python COM server which supports callbacks for a large CAD 
program.  It adds menu items and then listens to events - however, I 
have a problem (obviously)...  I'm a COM idiot - so please expect dumb 
questions.

There are a bunch of functions that require a pointer to the event 
handler, or a pointer to my COM server.  Prolem is - it is looking for a 
pointer to a Dispatch object - but I have already been dispatched. 
Maybe an example will clear things up.  One of the functions is as follows:

Status = SldWorks.SetAddinCallbackInfo ( ModuleHandle, AddinCallbacks, 
Cookie )

Input:
  (long) ModuleHandle
  Instance handle of the add-in

Input:
  (LPDISPATCH) AddinCallbacks
  Pointer to the object that includes the add-in callback methods

Input:
  (long) Cookie
  Add-in ID; this is the same Cookie you specified in SwAddin::ConnectToSW

Output:
  (VARIANT_BOOL) Status
  TRUE if successful, FALSE if unsuccessful

What I *want* to do is essentially:

SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), self, self.ICookie)

...however - this fails because "self" (my COM server) is not a Pointer 
to a Dispatch object.

I can get it to work if I do the following:

SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), Dispatch(self._reg_progid_), self.ICookie)

...however this dipatches a new instance of my COM server, losing any 
attributes that may have been set since instantiation - thus is useless.

Is there a way to get a pointer to a Dispatch object of yourself?

Thanks,
Mark.


From python at rcn.com  Wed Mar 17 05:42:56 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 02:42:56 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403160058.626d0a35@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403170242.759ac8d9@posting.google.com>

[Jess Austin]
> hi Terry,
> 
> Thanks for your thoughtful response.  I've tried to address the points
> you made, but I could have missed something.  b-)

List iterators likely won't change because
* it does not encourage an error prone programming style
* it is documented to perform as it currently does
* there is likely existing code that relies on the current behavior
* there are performance issues which changing it
* there do not seem to be compelling, general use cases to warrant a
change

Also, I'm not sure your proposal is self-consistent.  If I read it
correctly, there is a strong notion of having the iterator remember
the last item emitted even if its position changes.  However, with a
combination of slice deletion and insertion, the notion of the last
item emitted becomes muddy:

lyst = range(10)
it = iter(lyst)
for i in xrange(5):
   it.next()
lyst[3:7] = [20]
print it.next()          # Should this print 20 or 7 ?



 
> All of your suggestions are valid ways to deal with the current
> system, by deliberately building more machinery on top of it.  But
> none of them allow me to simply code a loop that assumes it will get
> the item that is now after the last one it got, even if it may have
> made changes to the list in the interim.  The class I posted does
> allow that.

Py2.4 adds a new type, collections.deque(), that can reasonably be
made to do what your asking (workable because there is no slicing,
just appending or popping from either end and setitem value
mutations):

>>> from collections import deque
>>> d = deque('abcdefg')
>>> it = iter(d)
>>> it.next()
'a'
>>> it.next()
'b'
>>> d.extend('hijk')
>>> d.appendleft('z')
>>> d.appendleft('y')
>>> list(it)   # this picks up right where it left off
['c', 'd', 'e', 'f', 'g', 'h', 'i', 'j', 'k']
>>> d
deque(['y', 'z', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f', 'g', 'h', 'i', 'j',
'k'])



Raymond Hettinger


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Mar  4 13:58:32 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:58:32 -0500
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de> <Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Yx3RAls/KDUL089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>What I think is going on "under the hood" with the print statement is:
>
>def print(*args):
>   for arg in args:
>      sys.stdout.write(arg)
                        ^^^
Ahem,                  (str(arg))

>      sys.stdout.write(' ')
>   sys.stdout.write('\n')
>
>To make a variation on this, just add or delete the extra formatting.
>Of course, we need to call it something besides the keyword 'print'.

        Regards.        Mel.


From opstad at batnet.com  Sat Mar 13 17:39:33 2004
From: opstad at batnet.com (David Opstad)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:39:33 -0800
Subject: Problems with unicode
References: <a091da2f.0403131345.5e82b07e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opstad-5EE7F4.14393313032004@news-central.ash.giganews.com>

In article <a091da2f.0403131345.5e82b07e at posting.google.com>,
 jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna) wrote:

> Apparently in the batch that I'm encoding there is one string with 
> non-ascii characters in it. Is there any way to just have it encode 
> everything as unicode and not ascii?

A better question to ask is this: where did the supposed ASCII data come 
from in the first place? If, for instance, it came from a Windows 
machine, then there's a chance it's actually ISO-8859-1 encoding, in 
which case you can preserve the 0x92 by encoding using that codec, 
instead of the 'ascii' one. Similarly, if the original text came from a 
Mac, then it's likely in Mac Roman, so if you use the 'mac-roman' codec 
you'll be able to preserve the correct character in your resulting 
Unicode.

Dave


From ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE1 at doe.mass.edu  Fri Mar 26 09:19:51 2004
From: ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE1 at doe.mass.edu (ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE1)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:19:51 -0500
Subject: Antigen found FILE FILTER= *.zip file
Message-ID: <DE4FCD18CD7FD4118C8C00D0B774DDA40FD97C4A@doe.mass.edu>

Antigen for Exchange found note.zip matching FILE FILTER= *.zip file filter.
The file is currently Purged.  The message, "drugs? ...", was
sent from python-list at python.org and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at Commonwealth of Massachusetts/DOE_Malden/EXCHANGE1.



From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Fri Mar 19 06:47:35 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:47:35 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-2?q?S=FCrg=F5s_-_Unik=F3d_elnyom=E1sa?=
Message-ID: <5015083969.20040319124735@anonym.hu>

Hello !

A k?vetkez? gondom akadt.
Szinte k?sz a groupwise filterem.

Csak n?h?ny esetben musz?j ellen?riznem a body-t.
Mivel unik?dos karakterek vannak benne n?melyik helyen, nem tudom
menteni (f?jlba), sem megjelen?teni.

> V?grehajt?s...: C:\Program Files\ConTEXT\ConExec.exe "C:\Python\python.exe" "C:\dev\GWFilterPy\gwfilter.py"


ID: 4059CC37.KUTVOLGYI.MAIL.100.17A3433.1.83E11.1
From: Krisztian Kepes
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\dev\GWFilterPy\gwfilter.py", line 237, in ?
    if not GWF.FilterMsg(msg):  break
  File "C:\dev\GWFilterPy\gwfilter.py", line 182, in FilterMsg
    print mbody
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xf3' in position 202: ordinal not in range(128)
> V?grehajt?s...

Az a nagy k?rd?sem, hogy ezzel lehet-e mit kezdeni ?
Sz?val lehet-e m?gis konvert?lni vmi tr?kkel, legal?bb \nnn form?ba ?

El?re is k?szi az infot.


Ui:
 Mindenkinek k?szi az el?z? reakci?kat.

Ui2:
 Ha lehet, mag?nban is k?rn?k v?laszt, mert am?gy digest-ben vagyok.









From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 02:48:14 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:48:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <20040317072606.1235.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040317074814.17181.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>

Since I am not the super user and have limited
priviledge on the Mandrake system.  Can I download a
copy of the cjkcodecs and put it in my home directory
and then set some kind of path so that Python knows
where that package is?

Is this doable?  If yes, how do I set the path?


--- Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've added
> 
> export LANG=zh_CN.GB2312
> 
> in both .bash_profile and .bashrc
> 
> Now, if I issue 'locale', I get:
> 
> LANG=zh_CN.GB2312
> LC_CTYPE=en_US
> LC_NUMERIC=en_US
> LC_TIME=en_US
> LC_COLLATE=en_US
> LC_MONETARY=en_US
> LC_MESSAGES=en_US
> LC_PAPER=en_US
> LC_NAME=en_US
> LC_ADDRESS=en_US
> LC_TELEPHONE=en_US
> LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US
> LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_US
> LC_ALL=
> 
> Notice that LANG=zh_CN.GB2312, which seems to be
> what
> I want, but still when I run the following script:
> 
> s = 'SomeChineseCharacter' 
> # don't take this literally, s is simply a string in
> # the Chinese language
> s = unicode(s, 'gb2312')
> print s
> 
> I still get the same error message:
> 
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
> characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in
> range(256).
> 
> What should I do?  Thank you!
> 
> 
> --- "Martin_v._L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> > Anthony Liu wrote:
> > > OK, gotcha. By the way, do you know how to set
> the
> > > default language of Mandrake or any linux
> system,
> > so
> > > that I can probably mimic.
> > 
> > You need to set the LANG environment variable.
> This
> > is best done on a per-user basis, e.g. in the
> .login
> > file of the user. Setting LANG to zh_CN should
> give
> > you a (simplified) Chinese environment. Python 2.3
> > will automatically pick up that setting when
> > printing
> > Unicode strings.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Martin
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 14:56:15 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 11:56:15 -0800
Subject: converting %20 to spaces
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403141156.3135c1d9@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am storing the attachments in files on the server.User can see all
the attachments & view any of them.
My application shows the attachment correctly for file which have no
spaces in their name.
But it doesnt works for file names with spaces.As the spaces are
converted to %20.It gives an error:No such file or directory.
How do I avoid converting of spaces to %20??
Also one more problem creeped up.
I am using <input type=file> method for uploading attachmnets..Then I
create a file on the server & copy the contents to that file.When I
display the attachments the text files & html files are displayed
correctly but the image files are distorted.
Do I need to escape sequences or do something else?
Please help


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Mar  2 10:52:56 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:52:56 +0100
Subject: Escape problem
References: <f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.02.15.52.56.453583@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:57:19 -0800 schrieb ketulp_barod:

> Hi
> I am developing a web application.
> I have a string 'foo"bar"' say in variable s.
> When I print s on the python shell it prints correctly 'foo"bar"'
> whereas when I try to display s on the form it just prints 'foo'. What
> should I do to print complete string 'foo"bar"' on the form

Hi,

have a look at the HTML source-code. Does it look right?

If you want to use the value in an attribute,
you need to quote it:
 
 cgi.escape(s, 1)

thomas



From beliavsky at aol.com  Fri Mar  5 09:10:46 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 06:10:46 -0800
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at>
	<mailman.5.1078451040.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403050610.7e850b3@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5.1078451040.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> "Gregor Lingl" <glingl at aon.at> wrote in message
> news:404778E4.9090601 at aon.at...
> >So my question: why does the
> > Python interpreter not recognize this identity and internally
> > replace the latter by the first in order to get *much*
> > better performance?
> 
> The interpreter does not do optimization.  'Optimizing' complilers are
> often buggy, which is to say, grossy dis-optimized -- as has been too often
> discovered, from reports here and on PyDev, when compiling the interpreter
> with 'optimzing' C compilers.

My experience with Fortran compilers is that the ones that can
aggressively optimize are not more buggy than the other ones, perhaps
in part because the fast compilers attract more users, who report more
bugs that are ironed out. In particular, Compaq Visual Fortran is a
highly optimizing, non-buggy compiler that handily beats Python in
speed comparisons of numerical code. C is more difficult to optimize
than Fortran because of its use of pointers. Optimizing compilers
always have a switch that let you compile with no optimization. When
using optimization, the user should check that results are the same as
with no optimization.

<SNIP>
> Speed is secondary to correctness, appropriately defined.

In production use, both are often vitally important. If you are
modelling a lot of data, a slow compiler or programming language may
force you to use an oversimplified model.


From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 10:57:49 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:57:49 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <3c7xaqh0.fsf@python.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>	<4062EF99.1050802@zope.com>	<fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net>
	<4062F88C.40200@zope.com> <3c7xaqh0.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <4063017D.7030805@zope.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:
>>What I don't like about the third alternative is the subtle
>>distinction between parentheses and square brackets.  It seems like
>>newbies would have a hard time with it, as would advanced programmers
>>who are looking over a new code base.
> 
> 
> That may be true, especially for classes.  But as understand it, the
> main purpose of PEP 318 is for function decorators, not class
> decorators.  And for functions it is clearer, since you always have a
> parameter list.

Guido said that he'd like the "staticmethod" declaration to be closer to 
the first argument, since it changes the meaning of the first argument. 
  The syntax I'm proposing lets you do that.  (I didn't introduce the 
method of specifying parameters until now, though.)

foo = staticmethod(def(a, b=25)):
     obj = Bar(a, b)
     obj.stuff()
     return obj

> BTW, how would you specify base classes for ICustomer?
> 
>     ICustomer = Interface(class, IBaseInterface):
>         def get_id():
>             """Return the customer ID"""

That would be the appropriate way to do it, assuming that Interface is 
not a metaclass.

Shane



From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Tue Mar 30 08:35:20 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:35:20 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040330143520.31dccb5e.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>

On 30 Mar 2004 05:18:58 -0800
michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:

> 'Programming Python' has an excellent introduction.. so I started with
> Tkinter thinking that when I hit restrictions I could move onto wx. I
> haven't yet reached the point where Tkinter restricts me. Whereas
> there are a couple of widgets missing from the standard distribution,
> Tkinter *can* be used to make clean and modern looking interfaces.....
> And the syntax isn't too gawky once you've climbed the initial
> learning curve.

For me, the issue with TK is less the restrictions it imposes and more the way of writing it in the first place.

> > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> > 
> 
> Is this Linux only ? 
> (pardon my terrible ignorance...)

Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...

> > Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
> > 
> Although *technically* cross platform, windoze users can't get a free
> version... so I'm never going to bother looking at it...

That doesn't bother me - everything I'm writing is for in-house use only, and would only ever be run on Linux...

Thanks for everyones thoughts... I'm actually planning on sticking with wxPython for the moment. I've decided that I can live with the extra few seconds to load up, although I don't like it...

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Sat Mar 13 15:07:18 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 12:07:18 -0800
Subject: Source compile newbie: trying to build Ming (Flash) libs
References: <3d06fae9.0403092200.47027a27@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.03.10.23.22.22.720708@elsol.zwan>
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0403131207.411e3fce@posting.google.com>

allena29 at elsol.zwan wrote in message news:<pan.2004.03.10.23.22.22.720708 at elsol.zwan>...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:00:02 -0800, jmdeschamps wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have installed the GCC minGW compiler, and got ming03-beta1. On window
> > XP
> > 
> > so I try the Ming How-to Install for python and get the following ...
> > C:\ming>mingw32-make static
> > process_begin: CreateProcess((null), uname -s, ...) failed. make -C src
> > static
> 
> Is it complaining that it can't do "uname -s"
> 
> I wouldn't expect uname to work on XP (however have no experience of XP
> for compiling).
> 
> uname -s on *nix returns the name of the Kernel (i.e. Linux in many cases).
> 
> 
> Adam

Just a tought!

Am I starting to inderstand something when I believe I could do
without a make file, and use the *.c and *.h (and whatever is
available and necessary) and do a distutils setup to compile a binary
for myself out of the ming source code ???

Thanks for responding because I think its going to demand some time to
learn to do this, and i'd rather believe that its going to pay-off and
that it's not an evident dead-end (for all you windoze source
compiling and distutils gals and guys) :))

Jean-Marc
(Today, its nice, sunny and cold up here in the north)


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 24 07:47:35 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:47:35 +0100
Subject: mod_python and unicode
In-Reply-To: <slrnc62mkf.g3.Olivier.Dormond@bsp-124.epfl.ch>
References: <slrnc62mkf.g3.Olivier.Dormond@bsp-124.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <c3rvuo$m15$1@swifty.westend.com>

Olivier Dormond wrote:
>  I'm writing a few web tools in python using mod_python which
> interact with an LDAP server. The server's answers are UTF-8
> encoded and when converting them to latin-1 I get:
> RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code objects in restricted execution mode
> 
> Removing the restriction on the execution mode from mod_python
> doesn't seem possible so I'd like to know if there is any
> possibility to decode unicode without loading the codecs module.

Copying the needed code into the module being executed?

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 13:53:29 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:53:29 +0000
Subject: two flies in one hit: working around goto and grid point
	generation
References: <404c91d2$0$144$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <0nfp40hmil2mdnc8jit6n5kk40mmb69epn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:28:43 +0100, anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton
Vredegoor) wrote:

>Please tell me if I'm onto something or just
>hallucinating or reinventing the wheel. FWIW it has a lot in common
>with ideas that are used in Numerical Python.

This isn't a brand new approach, but I'm thanking you anyway because I
should be using something very similar to 'unrank' myself but it never
occurred to me.

BTW - this is particularly appropriate in Python due to long integers.
The exponential increase in the sizes of integers needed with the
number of dimensions isn't going to cause a program to fail as soon as
you hit it with real data.

Hope you don't mind me stealing your code ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From kacoroski at comcast.net  Fri Mar 26 16:31:47 2004
From: kacoroski at comcast.net (Chris Kacoroski)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 13:31:47 -0800
Subject: Can I access perl application API's from python
Message-ID: <af288a61.0403261331.3b0d3a6d@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I would like to use Python for several scripting tasks I have, but the
applications I am scripting against only export a set of Perl API's. 
Is there any  package that makes it easy to use an application's Perl
APIs from Python.  Essentially I am looking for a package that would
read a perl module and allow me to access the functions in that module
from Python.  For example the Communigate Pro messsaging server has a
Perl api, but not a python API (they also have a java API if that
helps).

Please reply to me directly as I do not read this newsgroup.

cheers,

ski 

kacoroski at comcast.net


From klappnase at web.de  Fri Mar  5 17:52:52 2004
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 14:52:52 -0800
Subject: Need a Progress Bar/Meter for Tkinter
References: <040320041859589376%bscholln@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0403051452.fd284@posting.google.com>

benjamin schollnick <bscholln at mac.com> wrote in message news:<040320041859589376%bscholln at mac.com>...
> Folks,
> 
>    I am really not having much luck...
> 
>    I thought the ContriD addon for Python MegaWidgets had a progress
> bar, but can't find the site any more...  (It's been a long time since
> I did any Tkinter GUI work...)
> 
>    So far, I have had no luck with METER from TIX...  Tix on Windows
> 2000 seems to be far from a suitable system.  It is complaining that
> the TIX8183.dll can not be loaded....
> 
>    So far, I have also examined EASYGUI, and a few others and have not
> been able to find a simple Progress bar.
> 
>    Can anyone point me towards a working Tkinter based progress bar?
> 
>          - Benjamin

Hi Benjamin,

I wrote a simple progress bar widget for Tkinter a while ago I use as
a replacement for the Tix.Meter . It looks and behaves mostly like a
Tix.Meter widget. Here's the code:

##############################file Meter.py####################
import Tkinter

class Meter(Tkinter.Frame):
    '''A simple progress bar widget.'''
    def __init__(self, master, fillcolor='orchid1', text='',
value=0.0, **kw):
        Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master, bg='white', width=350,
height=20)
        self.configure(**kw)
        
        self._c = Tkinter.Canvas(self, bg=self['bg'],
width=self['width'], height=self['height'],\
                                 highlightthickness=0, relief='flat',
bd=0)
        self._c.pack(fill='x', expand=1)
        self._r = self._c.create_rectangle(0, 0, 0,
int(self['height']), fill=fillcolor, width=0)
        self._t = self._c.create_text(int(self['width'])/2,
int(self['height'])/2, text='')
        
        self.set(value, text)

    def set(self, value=0.0, text=None):
        #make the value failsafe:
        if value < 0.0:
            value = 0.0
        elif value > 1.0:
            value = 1.0
        if text == None:
            #if no text is specified get the default percentage
string:
            text = str(int(round(100 * value))) + ' %'
        self._c.coords(self._r, 0, 0, int(self['width']) * value,
int(self['height']))
        self._c.itemconfigure(self._t, text=text)

######################################################################

You can use the set() method to change the "value"; if you don't want
any text inside the progress bar use the text="" option (default is a
string like "75 %").

I hope this helps

Michael


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Thu Mar 18 22:30:43 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:30:43 -0800
Subject: Is there a map or graph module?
In-Reply-To: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Lilith wrote:
> Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
> which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
> finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
> through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
> would be less parsimonious.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!

Thank Guido, http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html


  - Josiah


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 30 19:58:46 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:58:46 -0500
Subject: doctest
In-Reply-To: <1xnace2w.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEGAJOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Thomas Heller]
> I've just read the 'Automating testing with doctest' pycon paper, and
> I'm exited about the future of doctest.

Cool!

> This simple script reads the ctypes docs written in StructuredText,
> and runs and tests the code examples in it:
>
> """
> import doctest
>
> ex = doctest._extract_examples(file("tutorial.stx").read())
> doctest._run_examples(ex, {}, 0, "tutorial.stx", 0, 0)
> """

Other kinds of wrappers are growing in the Zope3 project.  In fact, the new
ones added to Python 2.3 were originally written by Jim Fulton for Zope3.

> Do I understand correctly that the doctest-pretty printer will
> eventually remove the remaining 'warts', ie that doctest complains
> about the address part in this?
>
> >>> class X(object): pass
> ...
> >>> x = X()
> >>> x
> >>> <__main__.X object at 0x008FA3F0>

Probably, but it's a tradeoff:  doctest strove to be 100% WYSIWYG, and the
"doc" part of "doctest" does suffer when that fails.  In this case, I think
your example makes for poor documentation:  what are you really trying to
communicate?  If it's that X() creates an X object, then

>>> class X(object): pass
>>> x = X()
>>> type(x) is X
True

is a much cleaner statement.  Of course, if you're trying to illustrate that
Python's default repr() produces unpredictable output for class instances,
then it's a fine piece of documentation <wink>.

> And is it already available somewhere?

No.  It will most likely exist in Zope3 first.




From jon_couchman at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 12:21:35 2004
From: jon_couchman at hotmail.com (jon c)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:21:35 +0000
Subject: is perl better? 
Message-ID: <Law11-F108dhVtRRM4c0002bf6d@hotmail.com>

>>well the cammand is
>>
>>java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries
>>application-name
>>
>>the total string is 6809 characters long.
>>
>>I do not know the allowed character length (I am using windows 2000)
>>
>>but perl just runs the command fine, whereas python results in
>>
>>The following character string is too long:

>Is that coming from Windows or Python?  If the latter, give us the full
>exception message, which will say from where in Python.  Also, try putting
>the long string in a .bat file and running the .bat file by itself and then
>from Python.

>Terry J. Reedy


the error is coming from windows!

the error message is as I wrote it.

if you try and execute the command directly from bat you get the error input 
line too long!

can perl be somehow bypassing the windows terminal and running the command 
directly (does this make sense?)

_________________________________________________________________
It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Mar  1 13:40:10 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:40:10 -0800
Subject: Pythonic control of VMware -- ctypes does not provide access to
	'menu' gui-control.
References: <4b3b1124.0403010024.7d044ac1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10470sbrjkdh1b2@corp.supernews.com>

zapazap wrote:
> My Test:
>   I have a unittest that successfully opens and closes both
>   _Notepad_ and _Freecell_, but fails to close _VMware_.
>
> My Suspicion:
>   I suspect that there is a different "path" (so to speak) to
>   the menu control in the VMWare application than exists in
>   the other two applications.

If you are trying to close an application, I wouldn't access its menu at
all. The normal way to close a Windows app is to send or post a WM_CLOSE
message to its main window.

> Question #2:
>   Is my suspicion correct?  Might I have to go through several
>   nested controls before I get to the menu control of some apps?
>   If so, I think may need to search for some interactive browser
>   and/or debugger for windows app to reverse engineer the app's
>   structure.  But I fear how much windows arcana I will need to
>   learn if I am to do this :-(  -- advice of any sort would sure
>   be encouraging.

If you need to find out more about how an application is structured,
Winspector Spy may be useful:

http://www.windows-spy.com/

> Let me say that my goal is for a user to be able to see ONLY the
> virtual machine, but be able to have snapshots taken and restored,
> devices reassigned, etc, from within the VM without seeing the
> host.  I will just have the VM talk to the Host via sockets, that
> is no problem to hack on.  My only difficulty is having a process
> on the host actually drive the VMWare application in a way that
> does not require the VM to leave full-screen mode.  Perhaps this
> description might help someone in their helping me?

Won't the user still be able to press Ctrl+Alt (or whatever you set the
hotkey to) to break out of full screen mode and get back to the host system?

> # path to vmware folder
> VMWARE_HOME = 'D:\\Progra~1\\VMware\\VMware~1'

You shouldn't need to hard code this path. Windows has an AppPath to
VMware.exe, so it should be able to run it with just the filename.

> # number of seconds to wait for the OS to respond to a change request.
> DELAY = 2.0
> # command prefix
> CMD = 'start cmd /c '
> ...
>         # text to be found in the title of a freecell application
>         appname = 'FreeCell'
>         command = CMD + appname
>         # ensure no currently running instance of the application
>         assert not get_hwnds(appname)
>         # launch the application
>         os.system(command)

Don't use os.system to run a program in Windows. It launches a new instance
of CMD.EXE. You won't notice this if you're running in a console window
already, but if you're not in a console window, os.system will open one
needlessly.

You can use os.startfile to run a program using the ShellExecute function in
Windows, which is much better than using os.system.

Or use win32api.ShellExecute, which gives you more control because it
supports all of the arguments to the ShellExecute function.

>         # give it time
>         time.sleep(DELAY)

If you were coding in C, I would recommend using ShellExecuteEx instead of
ShellExecute. ShellExecuteEx gives you the process and thread handles to the
application, so you can use the WaitForInputIdle() function instead of an
unreliable time delay.

I don't see a wrapper for ShellExecuteEx in win32api, but you could probably
do it with ctypes.

>         # get the (unique) hwnd for the application's main window
>         [hwnd] = get_hwnds(appname)
>
>         # find the id for the Game|Exit menu entry
>         hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenu(hwnd)
>         assert hmenu, 'Application %s has no menu!' % appname
>         assert menu_name(hmenu,0)=='&Game'
>         hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetSubMenu(hmenu, 0)
>         assert menu_name(hmenu,9)=='E&xit'
>         ExitID = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenuItemID(hmenu, 9)
>
>         # try to close the application
>         win32gui.PostMessage(hwnd, win32con.WM_COMMAND, ExitID, 0)

Yeah, definitely skip all the menu stuff and use WM_CLOSE. Untested:

win32gui.PostMessage( hwnd, win32con.WM_CLOSE, 0, 0 )

>         # give it time
>         time.sleep(DELAY)
>         # it should be gone now
>         assert not get_hwnds(appname)

Better yet, use SendMessage instead of PostMessage:

win32gui.SendMessage( hwnd, win32con.WM_CLOSE, 0, 0 )

The difference between PostMessage and SendMessage is that SendMessage waits
until the target window function returns, so you wouldn't need the delay.

> def get_hwnds(text):
>     """
>     Return list of all top level hwnds with specified
>     text in the title.
>     """
>     fn = win32gui.GetWindowText
>     list = []
>     win32gui.EnumWindows( (lambda hwnd,acc: acc.append(hwnd)), list)
>     return [ hwnd for hwnd in list if text in fn(hwnd) ]

This doesn't seem like a good idea. Some unrelated window could have the
same text in its title.

Instead of GetWindowText, I'd use win32gui.GetClassName and look for the
window class name you want. You can use Winspector Spy to find the class
name for any window.

There's no guarantee that class names will be unique either, but it's a lot
better than using window titles. You could check both.

A general comment about closing applications: As you know, many apps will
put up a confirmation dialog box when you close them. In your Notepad test,
what if the user had edited the text? Notepad would put up a "do you want to
save" dialog and your code would take the assert. VMware always puts up a
confirmation message box if the VM is running. SendMessage(WM_CLOSE) would
avoid this problem by waiting for the WM_CLOSE message to return.

-Mike




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 23:28:45 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:28:45 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c3r2vq$3ci$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> This would be easy to implement with Mersenne Twister too.  Though it 
> would involve some rewriting.
> 
> Do you think this is worthwhile?

I don't know, but I'm leaning towards not really.

     def getrandstring(self, n):
         out = [struct.pack('>L', self.getrandbits(32)) \
                for i in xrange(0, n, 4)]
         out.extend([chr(self.getrandbits(4)) for i in xrange(n%4)])
         return ''.join(out)

You have your getrandstring for any class that provides getrandbits, and 
is relatively optimized to deal with very long output strings.

     def getrandbits(self, n):
         out = 0
         for i in xrange(0, n+16, 16):
             out = out << 16 + struct.unpack('>H', self.getrandstring(2))
	return out >> (16-(n%16))

Now you have getrandbits for any method that provides getrandstring, and 
it is optimized to deal with a Python long internal representation.

  - Josiah


On a relatively unrelated note, I'm leaning toward trying to get the 
benefits of both SHA and MT with the following, though I lack the heavy 
mathematical background to prove whether it is better than either.

class SHARandom(Random):
     def random(self, tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53, divint = 2**64):
         grb = self.getrandbits
         plaintxt = struct.pack("<QQL", grb(64), grb(64), grb(32))
         ciphertext = sha.new(plaintxt+self.sha_state).digest()
         randint = unpack('<Q', ciphertxt[:8])[0] >> 11 # grab 53 bits
         self.sha_state = ciphertext[7:] #keep hidden state
         return randint * tofloat

     #deal with state initialization and seeding
     def __init__(self, x=None, y=None):
         self.seed(x,y)
     def seed(self, x=None, y=None):
         Random.seed(x)
         self.sha_state = sha.new(str(y)).digest()[7:]

     #deal with state persistency
     def getstate(self):
         return (Random.getstate(self), self.sha_state)
     def setstate(self, state):
         Random.setstate(state[0])
         self.sha_state = state[1]


From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Mar 27 11:27:16 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:27:16 GMT
Subject: indexing question
References: <slrnc66rad.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<AWY8c.44397$PY1.832061@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc6baon.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:32:32 GMT, wes weston <wweston at att.net> wrote:

> Faheem,
>     On the following like, I see something like what you
> want.
>
> http://matpy.sourceforge.net/MatPy/node3.html

Yes, I realise that I can take slices as long as the corresponding
rows and columns are contiguous. My question is, how can I make a
subarray from rows or columns that are *not* contiguous? If this is
possible, can you show me an example?

                                                           Faheem.


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar 11 17:02:43 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:02:43 -0500
Subject: A GOTO example (was question: numarray c extension...)
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <qnkr7vzhwjg.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

> Here's a nice use of goto's in a Python C extension for those who have 
> been following the goto thread.  I like it (see code at end and the nice 
> resolve for returns the goto's give).  I hope Mr. Cooke does not mind me 
> "borrowing" his code.  :-) 

Not a problem; I wish more people would :-)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Mar  8 17:34:42 2004
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:34:42 -0600
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
Message-ID: <2004030816344216807%cs1spw@bathacuk>

I'm looking into building a simple one-way (announce only) mailing list 
system. The system will bulk-send messages to lists of around 5,000 email 
addresses. What's the most efficient way of delivering this kind of email 
volume from a Python script? The script will be running on a dedicated 
server with full access to sendmail etc.

Thanks,

Simon Willison
http://simon.incutio.com/


From shane at zope.com  Wed Mar 24 16:58:10 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:58:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>

In thinking about PEP 318, I came across an idea that might be worth 
pursuing further.  It goes deeper than PEP 318, so it would need its own 
PEP.

The idea is to make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions.  
Expressions using 'def' or 'class' are followed by a code block.  Upon
evaluation of the expression, the 'def' or 'class' symbol evaluates as the
function or class created by the code block.  Only one 'def' or 'class' is
allowed per expression.

Some examples follow.


    # Define a staticmethod named 'now'.

    class datetime:
        now = staticmethod(def):
            ticks = time.time()
            return datetime(ticks)


    # Increment a counter, under control of a lock.

    def increment():
        self.increment_lock.synchronize(def):
            self.counter += 1


    # Define an interface.

    ICustomer = Interface(class):
        def get_id():
            """Return the customer ID"""


    # Create a singleton object that ignores what you write to it.

    dev_null = singleton(class):
        def write(self, data):
            pass


When an expression uses 'def', the subsequent code block becomes a
function and therefore does not execute unless called by the expression.  
When an expression uses 'class', the subsequent code block becomes a class
object and therefore executes before being passed to the expression.

Do you like or dislike it?  Why?

Shane



From garryknight at gmx.net  Wed Mar 10 14:25:50 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:25:50 +0000
Subject: Regex Match Problem
References: <59c05c40.0403100717.30e6dbb2@posting.google.com>
	<8nhu4059js0lrc10ks9io6p4j70r7abj96@4ax.com>
	<1078945403.8188.0@echo.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <1078946750.55910.0@despina.uk.clara.net>

In message <1078945403.8188.0 at echo.uk.clara.net>, Garry Knight wrote:

> I remember what it was like when I was new to REs:
...
> '[^.]*' is meaningless as far as REs are concerned.
> It indicates something like "match 0 or more of anything that's not one of
> any character".

Seems I'm still fairly new to REs: I forgot that a '.' is literal when used
in a character class. Apologies for that.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 12:23:55 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:23:55 -0000
Subject: Fundamental differences (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my
	particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b8ptboh4ig4a@corp.supernews.com> <1080406261.496998@yasure>
Message-ID: <106be5b77o5goef@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1080406261.496998 at yasure>, Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I personally find sed more frustrating than useful, for anything
>past the common one-line application.  But I know of a very
>accomplished sed programmer for whom it's the other way around -
>not only can he solve complex problems in sed, he once professed
>to be baffled by the common structured-procedural languages.
>I reckon him to be a person of extraordinary intellect, because
>of his exceptional ability with sed, but he was pretty firmly
>convinced that he couldn't do much with a programming language
>like C or Python.  Of course not a programmer by trade. I believe
>he never did go on to prove himself wrong on that.
>
>In my opinion, it's a matter of very deep learning about how to
>solve problems.  Most of us were introduced to programming with
>procedural languages - BASIC, assembler, Pascal, FORTRAN and so
>on, which for all their differences are essentially the same in
>principle when it comes to solving a problem.  We can move from
>one of these languages to another fairly easily, but not sed -
>what's the point of such a useless language!  But here are these
>few, mostly non-programmers, who started with sed and can do
>amazing things with it.  We see a crippling lack of features,
>where they see spartan elegance, because at a very fundamental
>level they get it and we don't.
			.
			.
			.
It's only in the past year that I've chosen to use A Spreadsheet
twice in a month, although I was in the first wave of VisiCalc
practitioners.  Spreadsheets mostly annoy me, while I recognize
millions of people accomplish things with 'em they'd never achieve
otherwise.  You are, of course, absolutely correct, Donn.  One of
my Usenet amusements is to check in on comp.lang.awk seasonally;
every time I do so, it seems someone has come up with a new solu-
tion for least-square regressions with sed, or teaching awk to play
chess, or such.

I've given up making the time to feel humbled by such.  Mostly I
just take these as lessons in how great it is that there are dif-
ferent minds on the planet, 'cause it sure wouldn't work for us
all to be doing the same thing.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Mar 24 05:49:18 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:49:18 +0100
Subject: creating lists question?
In-Reply-To: <4060F4E4.1090006@yahoo.com.au>
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>	<bp48c.1529$0_1.159@news.cpqcorp.net>
	<4060F4E4.1090006@yahoo.com.au>
Message-ID: <406167AE.6030403@geochemsource.com>


> I must admit I am stumped about one thing though. I originally came up 
> with this (non-)solution to the case where you do know how many lists 
> you need:
>
> aaa, bbb, ccc = ([],) * 3
>
> Unfortunately, this doesn't do what I expected it to do. I thought 
> that the above line would be equivalent to:
>
> aaa, bbb, ccc = ([], [], [])
>
> but in fact they are three names for the same list, equivalent to aaa 
> = bbb = ccc = []
>
> Why is this? Bug or feature?
>
The * operator applied to a tuple will create another tuple consisting 
of the same objects but many times. For example,
(2,3,) *3  

will create (2,3,2,3,2,3)

However, if you do this:

(obj,)*3

then you will get

(obj,obj,obj,)

You will get references to the the same object.  :-)

In your case, what Python does is:

- Calculate the right side = (o,o,o,) where o = [] (e.g. the same object.)
- Then assign it to the right side:

aaa,bbb,ccc = (o,o,o,)   

  G





From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 15 12:47:43 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:47:43 +0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> I have read it before. I still disagree with the implication that
> Python is weakly typed just much as I did when I first read it.
> 
> But you are ignoring my explanation of how Python is strongly typed,
> and of the distinction between strong-vs-weak and dynamic-vs-static
> typing, and are instead resorting to argument from authority:

Right. I should listen to you because you are an authority on Typing but 
ignore Guido van Rossum.

> He's actually contrasting _statically_ typed languages with
> Python. Unfortunately he is using the word "strongly" where he should
> be using "statically".

So you are saying the Guido van Rossum doesn't know what he is talking 
about and I should take it from you what he really meant? And you said 
that I was resorting to 'argument from authority' when you are positing 
to know what he really meant.

> ... he seems to be suggesting that Python is NOT weakly typed ... so
> the implication seems to be that it IS strongly typed. What he's
> really hinting at is the fact that weak-vs-strong and
> static-vs-dynamic are orthogonal axes.

Well if we are to assume that Guido doesn't know what he is talking 
about then you can probably twist his words to suit whatever you want 
him to mean (as opposed to what he actually said).

> (Hint: "runtime typing" is almost synonymous with "dynamic typing".)

Hint: Guido used the words 'strong', 'weak' and 'runtime' in the same 
discussion and clearly delineated one from the others.

> What an absurd statement. You are suggesting that Python's type system
> somehow depends on the relative magnitudes of two people's knowledge.

When one of them is the creator and guiding light of the language. Yes.

> I certainly don't know more about Python than Guido does, but I do
> appear to know more about type system nomenclature than Guido does :-)

Is this a resort to argument from authority. (no smiley)

> Argument from authority is remains very unconvincing, even if that
> authority is Guido himself.

pot/kettle/black


From news at grauer-online.de  Sun Mar  7 09:23:57 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:23:57 +0100
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
In-Reply-To: <RGF2c.105804$jf4.6360171@news000.worldonline.dk>
References: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<20040307020101.539$r9@news.newsreader.com>
	<OCE2c.105781$jf4.6357260@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<404b18ce$0$565$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<RGF2c.105804$jf4.6360171@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <c2fb9j$m7g$1@online.de>

Bo,

to read shell program output use:
os.popen()

Uwe

Bo Jacobsen wrote:
>>>I'm been looking at perl and python, and I really like the strict
> 
> syntax,
> 
>>>handling
>>>of function parameters etc. Without include and function prototyping
> 
> though,
> 
>>>will probably have the effect that large source files, with a lot of
>>>function
>>>definitions at the top, will be generated. Not god.
>>
>>Why do you think this is so?
>>
>>Have a look at any Python example sourcecode (for that matter,
>>at some of the .py files from Python's standard library; for instance
>>cgi.py) and you will see that Python's import mechanism is working fine.
>>No big source files with lots of definitions at the top.
>>Just import the module which contains the definitions you need...
>>
>>
>>
>>>Perl on the other hand has it all, including very productive features as
>>>built-in
>>>regular expressions, file scanning etc.
>>
>>Python has the re/sre module for regular expression stuff.
>>File scanning is often done like this:
>>for line in open("myfile.txt"):
>>process(line)
>>
>>
>>>. ./filename
>>>Is the shell "include/execute" command.
>>
>>Python's "include" command is the import statement.
>>If you really want (but WHY?) to read in and directly
>>execute another source file, use the execfile function.
>>
>>--Irmen
> 
> 
> I'm very new to Phyton (I looked at it for the first time last night), so
> you must have me excused.
> The "execfile" perfectly solves my worries about prototyping and
> include, GREAT.
> As I wrote earlier, I really like the "feeling" of the language, now I
> just have to find the time to dig more into it.
> 
> By the way, is there an elegant way to read shell program output
> into a variable as in bash: var=$(command1 | command2)
> 
> 
> Bo
> 
> 
> 


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 11:35:04 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:35:04 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:15:39 +0100, Peter Maas
<fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:

>David MacQuigg schrieb:
>> Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
>> break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python,
>[...]
>> @x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function
>
>Advantage of your proposal:
>
>- easy to extend the language without breaking existing code.
>
>Disadvantages of your proposal:
>
>- The advantage is also a disadvantage: a lowered barrier for
>   new semantics could bloat the language definition. Python's
>   strength is that it has *few* concepts that are usable in *many*
>   places. This could be compromised by your proposal.

This is actually a separate issue.  Adding a few @ mods to selected
statements does not mean that users can add their own.

>- Python is a readable language. lambda says "function literal",
>   yield says "generator", @ just says "different". Python would
>   be less readable if this notation would be adopted.

Readability, in this case, is in the eye of the beholder.  'lambda' to
me says 'wavelength', which I know has nothing to do with programming.
I suspect many users are like me, not enough computer science
background to know that lambda means 'function literal'.

'yield' is a little closer to the intent, but again, to most new users
it probably means something more like 'give way' or 'acquiesce', the
opposite of 'resist'.  If you had never seen 'yield' used as it is now
in Python, and your first encounter with generator functions was when
you saw @return, would you not think "Ah yes, a modified return.", and
would that not be closer to reality than whatever you might associate
with the word 'yield'?

@ would never be used alone.  Like the '\' symbol used as an escape,
its meaning beyond 'different' is seen by its context.

Again, these examples are to illustrate a discussion on syntax, not to
urge changing what has already been done.  ( Althugh I just learned
from another part of this thread that 'lambda' *is* going to be
deprecated !! )

I almost wish Python had adopted the Unix philosphy of using short,
meaningless words for primitives.  That would have avoided the problem
we are having now with 'print'.  Words like 'cat' and 'grep' acquire
their own meaning, not dependent on previous meanings in English.

-- Dave



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar  3 04:24:27 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:24:27 +0100
Subject: Converting office files to PDF
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1078227879.12614.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.22.1078227879.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2486r$ouv$1@swifty.westend.com>

Goermezer, Mustafa (PROSTE) schrieb:
> with CoInitializeEx it is possible for word, excel or powerpont to run in
> multiple instances. So you can build a webbased converter to convert Office
> documents with spyce and mod_python (I have tested it, it runs fine !):
[...]
> Ghost() #ghostscript-command to convert created postscript file to PDF
> pythoncom.CoUninitialize()
> 
> A ready script to convert files in commandline is on my homepage
> www.goermezer.de.

Just for info: OpenOffice 1.1 can be started as a server, is Python
scriptable and has a builtin PDF Export. See for example

http://delta-flyer.musc.edu/ooconvert/

This solution fas the advantage to be available not only on the
Windows platform.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar  7 01:50:12 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 06:50:12 GMT
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.77.1078607276.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2dkjg$1sekvm$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.83.1078630530.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2egn3$1s695o$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
> I have no idea what OP is.

OP = Original Poster of a given thread

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar 27 08:46:53 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:46:53 -0500
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <roy-3EDA29.08465327032004@reader1.panix.com>

Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
> I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Tcl
> was good at interfacing to, and controlling, CAD tools.

Tcl is an interesting language, and well worth learning, although it 
certainly has its share of quirks.

The product I work on has close to 20,000 lines of Tcl code doing 
network discovery via SNMP.  The low-level SNMP protocol is accessed via 
hooks done in C.  It's not very fast, but it's as fast as it has to be, 
and I shudder to think how many lines of C or C++ the whole system would 
have been.

The real strengths are twofold:

1) It's easy to learn.  Even easier than Python.  We take guys who are 
networking types with no programming experience and get them doing 
useful development in Tcl in just a few days.

2) It's dead simple to embed in a C/C++ application.  This is one place 
where it really outshines Python.  It's literally two lines of C to get 
a Tcl interpreter up and running.  It's equally trivial to extend Tcl by 
providing functions in C.  Compare this to the native Python/C 
interface, boost.python, or swig, and you really appreciate the 
difference!

For most general purpose tasks, I reach for Python first.  But if I 
needed to provide a quick scripting interface to an existing C library, 
or wanted to embed some easy scriptability into a large C/C++ app, Tcl 
is what I would be looking at.


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Mar  4 10:33:38 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:33:38 +0100
Subject: Program not Stripping Headers from Email though Working fine
In-Reply-To: <20040304084016.12085.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040304084016.12085.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040304153338.GA4762@nl.linux.org>

dont bother wrote:
> The code is here, but I dont know why the headers are
> still present in the output file.

> fwrite.write(msg.as_string())
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The as_string header returns both the headers and the body. You want
something like get_payload()

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 04/03 14:55 UTC:
	7.0??C haze mostly clear wind 4.5 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 10:34:53 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:34:53 -0600
Subject: PEP 318 - posting draft
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403232120.28f166dc@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.292.1080061340.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232120.28f166dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16481.43677.733173.96753@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michele> However, may I suggest that (for Python 2.4) we only implement
    Michele> single decorators for functions only? The order of application
    Michele> in the case of multiple decorators is not obvious and actually
    Michele> I am not convinced the current proposal is the best one for the
    Michele> multiple decorator case.  

This has been hashed out a bit in python-dev.  Start here:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/thread.html

Search for "order of decorator application".

Skip



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 24 04:34:29 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:34:29 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FB88A.12995153@alcyone.com> <Ag28c.581$bm1.441@news02.roc.ny>
	<4060C0C6.3BA8FF23@alcyone.com>
	<c3r5kh$2b91lt$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40615625.BC9A958E@alcyone.com>

Cousin Stanley wrote:

>   I'd also like to add a word of thanks
>   for making your ZOE packagae and examples available ....

Thanks, glad you like it.  I didn't know that anyone had even looked at
it until this thread :-).

>   The included Linear Algebra module, la.py,
>   is very nice in itself and will probably be useful
>   to me in the future ....

Yes, I've used it in other things as well.  I'll likely release it as a
separate module under the public domain.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ When you talk to her / Talk to her
    -- India Arie


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 11:15:34 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:15:34 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>


"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list at python.org...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
> > exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
> > not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
> > open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.
>
> Ummm. This is also true for Python. Python classes exist at runtime.
>
> foo = 5
>
> class foo: # oops. I've overwritten foo
> def bar(self):
> pass
>
> print foo
> print dir(foo)
> print type(foo)
>
>   Paul Prescod

Sure. But misusing classes as instances is quite rare in
practice, and plugging members into instances is also
quite rare in practice. Python's highly dynamic nature
opens it up to a lot of difficulty in principle, but most
deveopers seem to be quite disciplined in their use of
dynamism.

The difficulty here is simply that there is no way of
isolating a base object that is supposed to be the platform
for other objects from objects that are supposed to be
updatable with new behavior.

The higher a tower you want to build, the firmer the
foundation. Conventions help, but if the conventions
are helped along by the language, that's even better.

John Roth
>
>
>




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Mar 19 03:55:24 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:55:24 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
In-Reply-To: <mailman.140.1079640183.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>	<7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>	<c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.140.1079640183.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3ecfk$lu3$1@swifty.westend.com>

Jeff Epler schrieb:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 08:46:04PM +0100, Peter Maas wrote:
>>The mapping of '1' to 0x31 is defined by ASCII which is used by C. If a C
>>instruction retrieves a char it reads data from an adress and if there is
>>a 0x31 stored at the adress C treats it as '1'. My short form of this is
>>"'1' is 0x31 in memory".
> 
> 
> Wrong. (surely C99 didn't change this)
> 
> C doesn't require ASCII as a source-encoding nor as the character
> encoding on the target machine.

ASCII is a recipe to map characters to integers in the range [0,127].
Does C assign the same integer value as ASCII to a character literal
(single printable character or \xhh enclosed in simple quotes)?

If the answer is yes then convert the question to a statement and
you get what I meant. :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 18 13:09:42 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:09:42 -0600
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16473.58854.802150.491318@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jason> Here's the code: what should I do to speed things up? 

Without considering your code, two suggestions come to mind.  One, look at
PIL or Numeric.  Perhaps one of them has a more efficient C-based Image
class or array class will will help.  Two, if you're running on an Intel
Pentium-type processor (Windows or Linux), take a look at psyco.

    http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/
    http://psyco.sourceforge.net/

If you don't have Intel hardware, you might consider PyInline or SciPy's
weave tool to easily inline bits of C code into your Python.

A quick look at your code suggests that you use a fair amount of abstraction
(nothing wrong with that), then throw it away:

    xy = line1.transformPoint(line2, Point(x,y)).to_tuple()
    if self.in_bounds(Point(xy[0], xy[1])):
        ...

In the above, you instantiate a Point using x and y, then pass it to
transformPoint() which returns new Point.  You immediately discard that
point by calling .to_tuple(), then in the next statement create yet another
Point with those same coordinates.  Why not just have transformPoint accept
a tuple and return a tuple or at least save the transformed Point for later
use?

Skip



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Mar 29 18:21:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:21:57 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F87@opus.amorhq.net>

Christian Tismer wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> > I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different 
> approaches
> > for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly 
> faster, but I get
> > Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any 
> recommendations on
> > other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a 
> factor of
> > 25?
> 
> So, here we go.
> The attached script processes a gigabyte of data, one
> million records, in about a minute on my machine, and
> finds the single duplicate.

Thanks, Christian! Looks like someone's been having fun. ;)

But I don't see how your solution avoids the problem, however (some code
snipped):

    def process_duplicates(self):
        for i in range(len(self.files)):
            seen = {}
            has = seen.has_key
            for k in range(self.flushes):
                bin = pickle.load(self.files[i])
                for key, value in bin:
                    if has(key):
                        self.duplicates += 1
                    else:
                        seen[key] = value

...that is, the 'seen' dictionary is what is growing too large on my
dataset; it ends up being about 7 million items. Actually, I have three
such dictionaries (3 different fields which I'm checking for dupes for
each record). The hashing might cut these sizes down a bit, but I think
I'm still going to end up having to cache 'seen' (which I call 'indices'
in my Directory.produce() method) somehow.

Current ugly code is at http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/dedupe.py


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Mar 18 19:33:52 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:33:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Python Tic Tac Toe
Message-ID: <20040319003352.176.qmail@web8303.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello folks,

I wrote a web-based Tic Tac Toe game in Python. Source
at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/275150

A lot of the code is redundant, but I don't have the
mind to optimize it now.

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From Paul.Sue at telus.com  Thu Mar 25 15:15:28 2004
From: Paul.Sue at telus.com (Paul)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 12:15:28 -0800
Subject: execute shell command pipeline
Message-ID: <8757b529.0403251215.29333930@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm a Python newbie and I'm wondering how I can do the following Perl thing:

open(F, 'grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 | cut -d: -f1 |') or die "blah, blah";
$offset = <F>;
( or $offset = `grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 | cut -d: -f1`; )

in Python.  When I tried:

offset = os.popen('grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 |cut -d: -f1').read()

I get a whole bunch of error messages --

grep: writing output: Broken pipe

Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,

Paul


From ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com  Sat Mar 13 19:50:20 2004
From: ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com (Geoff Howland)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:50:20 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com> <x71xnzhvb7.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <07a7505p4hi152i3jb91l9rhlggm5acb52@4ax.com>

On 11 Mar 2004 23:29:16 +0100, Dieter Maurer <dieter at handshake.de>
wrote:

>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes on 8 Mar 2004 15:24:56 -0500:
>> Rationale for Absolute Imports
>>     import foo
>> To resolve the ambiguity, it is proposed that ``foo`` will always be a
>> module or package reachable from ``sys.path``.
>
>This will break lots of code...
>I do not like it at all.
>
>A package writer does know which external modules/packages he needs
>and can avoid to use the name of one of these modules for his
>own modules.
>
>Relative imports are essential to enhance locality.
>A package/module should in general not need to know
>where it is located inside the package hierarchy to access
>its subpackages.

Agreed.  This transfers the burden of a package maker to know where it
will be installed, which means packages will be more bound to having
to have installers that either cant change their install location
(according at least one sys.path value) or have to store where they
are located in a 3rd party location (registry) or else modify the code
to specific the new path ordering.

Unless I am misunderstanding this at least, it makes it a lot more
difficult to just write a module and have it work.  Currently I almost
never need to mess with the sys.path to get my programs to work.

At worst, I have to do this in the case of running tests on
sub-modules where I execute them from a command line, and they need to
modify the sys.path to get to their brother/parent modules.

It seems this absolute method would mean that you will always have to
have an awareness of where your sub-modules sit, and that seems like
it will lead to a lot more errors when every module that you use is
trying to handle the sys.path and is fighting for top placement for
itself so their sub-modules load properly.

Wont this create a lot more name conflicts when commonly named
sub-modules that are currently always found first will now be
subjugated by another module you imported which has the some commonly
named sub-module and inserted itself into the sys.path?

This seems like a very big change to make default.  Have all the
ramifications of current software that will break and sys.path
position fighitng been evaluated?

Is there something I'm missing that makes this a non-issue?


-Geoff Howland
http://ludumdare.com/


From wweston at att.net  Wed Mar  3 12:48:23 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:48:23 GMT
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
In-Reply-To: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <HTo1c.68740$aH3.2100714@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>



GrelEns wrote:
> hello,
> 
> having a list like ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'] i would like to get
> 
> [['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'],
> ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
> ['a', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'],
> ['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c','-', 'd']]
> 
> that is adding successively an item between at all the available place, and
> i just can't get my brain doing that :(
> 
> thank a lot if you could help...
> 
> 


GrelEns,
    Scott has it. For a start string of 4 chars there are 3 gaps/spaces
for the dash/not dash. So, there are 8 possible results. One of these
has no dashes - you may want to throw this one out. The "gap" strings
needs to be:
"000"
"001"
"010"
"011"
"100"
"101"
"110"
"111"
where the 1's are your character; "-"
Throw out the first one and insert into the gaps in the original string.
wes



From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar  5 23:32:43 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:32:43 GMT
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
References: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Lvc2c.717543$ts4.411927@pd7tw3no>

Swaroop C H wrote:

> I have a written a book on Python which serves as a tutorial or
> guide for anyone who wants to learn Python. It specifically targets
> beginners but experienced programmers can benefit a lot with the
> special notes for them.

Hi Swaroop, I like your use of colour in the examples. It certainly improves
the readability.  I also appreciate your providing the option of reading
the tutorial on-line or, for those on dial-up, the ability to download the
document for off-line reading. 

I have a question about the Object chapter and the use of __del__.  I was
unable to add this method to the objvar.py script without it deleting all
instances of person, not just one.   so, your text:
"Just like the __init__ method, we can also have a __del__ method where we
can decrement the Person.population by 1. This method is run when the
object is no longer in use. If you want to try this out, add the __del__
method and then use the statement del personInstance to delete the object.
You can use a print statement within this method to see when it is run." 
could benefit from having the actual method syntax written out. 

cheers
Stewart




From jblazi at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 17:06:32 2004
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:06:32 +0100
Subject: How to use Sockets with wxPython?
References: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>
	<GZKdnUhcSY7prc_dRVn-jQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.12.22.06.32.157000@hotmail.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:49:42 -0600, DH wrote:

> jblazi wrote:
> 
>> I am having this problem:
>> I use Python for my teaching and right now we are trying to implement some
>> sort of very simple graphical game the pupils can play across the
>> Internet. For this, we use wxPython.
>> 
>> Now it has turned out that wxPython does not implement wxWidget sockets,
>> so we have to use Python sockets instead. Implementing a separate thread
>> for this would be too complicated and I am going to use the wxIdle event
>> to do the socket processing, as the amount of data sent from one player to
>> the other is very small.
> 
> You might want to use Twisted instead.

Thx, but I can't. If it does not work with the components I already have,
I am having trouble (and then wxPython would be useless as well, which I
do not believe).

-- 
jb



----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From The at Radiator  Mon Mar 15 09:19:52 2004
From: The at Radiator (The Radiator)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:19:52 +0100
Subject: Stop code in python!!
Message-ID: <4055bb8c$0$794$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

I have this code, but I shall have a pause in  the end. Would you plaese
give me some idears to this, or/and write the code better!

p = (raw_input("Password please: "))
if p == "root":
    print ""
    print "Welcome"
    print "to this game, hope you will enjoy!"
    print "But remeber, it still under construktion!!"
    print ""
m = (raw_input("Will you move on to level 2? (y/n)"))
print ""
if m == "n":
    print "Goodbye!!"
else:
    if m == "y":
        print "Hey, this here is level 2"
        print "but it is still under construction"




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Mar 31 04:26:07 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:26:07 +0200
Subject: The range of Chinese characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.161.1080718907.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.161.1080718907.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4e2om$2ds$1@swifty.westend.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:
> I know that the 1st byte of a GB Chinese character
> falls between xa1 and xff (inclusive), I wanna know
> the range of the 2nd byte.
> 
> Please let me know.  Thanks.

Have a look at http://www.unicode.org -> CJK ideographs

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Mar 12 12:59:58 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:59:58 -0700
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <020401c4085b$d58c14b0$6401fea9@YODA>

Bart wrote:
> > > I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is
> > > there a way to
> > > encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing
> > > the file, but
> > > when the sting is used it's decoded? For example:
>
> > > pass = "#$%^&@*#&*$^@"
> > > instead of:
> > > pass = "root-password"
[snip and de-top-postify]
>
> Yes, I know it isn't. It's not very graceful at all, but I must do it.
> Whether I use a baseball bat from a distance of 1 meter to strike a computer
> monitor or use a sniper rifle from 400 meters away to shoot the monitor, the
> result is the same. Currently, this is a kludge (the baseball bat
> approach)... I'm trying to make it more graceful.
>
> >
> >What is preventing you from prompting for the password on execution?
>
> The script must run automaticly/programmaticly on 200 machines.

What is it that this script is doing? How is it getting invoked? And if it's
being invoked by a non-root user, why should that user be allowed to do
something that requires root privileges? Is there any reason why you simply
don't run the script as root?

Answers to the above will help generate some ideas to assist you, but my bet is
the best approach will be something external to the script itself, e.g. ssh as
root to each box and launch the script that way, or put it in root's cron job,
etc. Encrypted or not, don't put the password in the script unless you are
comfortable with every user on those 200 machines knowing the root password.

IOW, don't bother hiding the password at the script-level. Rely on OS features
instead or find a better solution to the problem (preferably the latter -
blatantly circumventing the OS security mechanisms has a way of coming back to
bite you).

-Dave

P.S. If you're going to automatically run the script on 200 machines, and
you're putting the root password inside the script, does that imply that you
have a network of 200 machines that all have the same root password? :)




From theller at python.net  Wed Mar  3 15:30:38 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:30:38 +0100
Subject: Windows NT Service and Sockets
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403031210.6d1d7abc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8yihhdw1.fsf@python.net>

OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding) writes:

> How can I used WaitForMultipleObjects() with sockets?  The code (shown
> below) respresents a very simple echo server using sockets.  I need
> WaitForMultipleObjects() so I can wait for both a new connection and
> the stop command from the service manager.
>
> Your help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks. 

Look into win32file.WSAEventSelect, it allows to associate an event
object with FD_XXX network events.

Thomas




From mday at apple.com  Fri Mar  5 16:46:21 2004
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:46:21 -0800
Subject: file.readline() after a seek() breaking up lines
References: <ba1b9669.0403051205.5d278f0b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <050320041346219769%mday@apple.com>

In article <ba1b9669.0403051205.5d278f0b at posting.google.com>, fd
<frnakd at aol.com> wrote:

> I am a newcomer to python, and I hope someone can point out to me why
> my calls to file.readline() (after a seek) are returning mangled lines. 
> Calling readline twice after each seek, eliminates the problem.

Seek positions to an arbitrary byte offset (at least on most OSes). 
Chances are, you're seeking into the middle of a line.  The first
readline() returns the remainder of that line (which is what I assume
you mean by a "mangled" line).  Subsequent readlines will return whole
lines since the previous readline left the current position just after
the end of the previous line.

-Mark


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Wed Mar 24 14:00:37 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:00:37 GMT
Subject: splitString output as argument to string format fails?
References: <tmk8c.8739$fg3.1169@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
	<c3skv7$dja$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pVk8c.8772$fg3.7510@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:44:55 +0100, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:
>
>> But when I attempt something like:
>> 
>>     f = '%s %s %s' % string.split(eachLine, ',')
>> 
>> I get:
>> 
>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>> 
>> How do I convert the output of string.split into something the format
>> operator is happy with?  I'm looking for an "oh well of COURSE" thing,
>> rather than looping over the output list and creating a tuple, assuming
>> one exists.
>
> The % operator is a bit picky about the sequence type - it wants a tuple:
>
>>>> "%sx%s" % "a,b".split(",")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
>
>>>> "%sx%s" % tuple("a,b".split(","))
> 'axb'

Oh well of COURSE!! :-)

Thanks


Charles



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar 17 21:34:14 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 13:24:14 +1050
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:45:56 +0100, Nicola Mingotti wrote:
> I obtained this result : 
> ------
>>>> '1' > 1 
> True
> ------
> with python2.2.3 and 2.3.3 .
> (Yes , in python 2.2 i get 1 instead of True)

This should not be surprising; the values are different, so one will be
"greater than" the other; but comparing them is not of much use.

> but 
> ------
>>>> '1' + 1
> TypeError 
> -------

This, too, should not be surprising.  Adding a character and a number
has no unambiguously correct meaning.

> and 
> -----------------------------
>>>>'1'.__gt__.__doc__
> 'x.__gt__(y) <==> x>y'
> -----------------------------

Showing that the comparison is pretty much what you'd expect.  Again,
though, the result of comparing different types like character and
integer isn't particularly useful.

> so i'm a little puzzled :)
>
> Is this a bug or is there a very good reason to this strange behaviour

What behaviour did you expect?  Without knowing that it's hard to
explain why the reality is different.

-- 
 \       "Judge: A law student who marks his own papers."  -- Henry L. |
  `\                                                           Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From amk at amk.ca  Mon Mar  8 08:24:24 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:24:24 -0600
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
References: <mailman.85.1078631357.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<AtWdnQfh4-eW0NbdRVn-jw@speakeasy.net>
	<404ba9a2$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <DOqdnV5UHc2V6dHdRVn-vg@speakeasy.net>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:00:51 +0100, 
	Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="paid-for-download.zip"
>                         ^^^^^^
> shouldn't that read    attachment    ?

Quite possibly; I could be misremembering the details.

--amk


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 27 15:56:18 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:56:18 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 : Def and Class in expressions
References: <opr5jagci1b723ru@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <106bql6gnvrqpda@news.supernews.com>


"PF" <peufeu at free.fr> wrote in message news:opr5jagci1b723ru at news.free.fr...
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm pleased to see activity on this topic as it pains me to write
> "classmethod" two pages of code after the method definition. However I
> find the decorators to obfuscate the syntax and lessen the expressivity
> (ie. they restrain what can be done).

Why are you writing methods that long? (That's rhetorical -
I'd break it up so I could understand it)

>
> All these problems come from the fact that the execution of the
> "foo=staticmethod(foo)" must be delayed after the execution of the "def"
> statement because it must act on the function after it has been defined.

That isn't the only problem, but it's the one most often cited.

> Normal program execution thus flow forces it to be placed after the
> "def", while readability would require it to be placed *before* the 'def'.

I'd prefer it as part of the same expression as the 'def'. That makes it
quite clear, and eliminates any possible confusion from having two
assignments where one should be sufficient.

> How to reverse the execution order ? One method would be to use an
> expression, but that would get very ugly soon, and Python's indented
> syntax does not lend itself well to such twistings. To mix a few previous
> postings :
>
> mymethod = staticmethod(def(args):
>     method code...
>     )
>
> is just plain ugly.

Agreed. I don't like the trailing parenthesis on another line.
Avoiding that is part of the joy of Python. (Notice that
I've reworked your example to conform to Guido's style
rules.)

> mymethod = staticmethod(def(args)):
>     method code...

> is also quite ugly.

Why? Except for the ':', which I would eliminate (although
there are arguements for keeping it) I think it reads quite well.

>
> I don't like the decorators either.

Neither do I. I don't find that any version of the syntax flows.

> So the root of the problem is the fact that the source code executes from
> top to bottom. I see two solutions.
> 1. Use a text editor which can fold functions, hiding the code between
> the def and the staticmethod call

That doesn't fix it; there's still two statements where there should
be only one.

> 2. Reverse the flow of code.

I'm going to stop here and go off in another direction...
[snip rest of post]

As I said above, I find:

aMethod = staticmethod(def(parms))
    statements

to be quite readable. The indentation says everything I need
said to understand it while scanning without having to resort
to studying the syntax (which I would have to do with brace-
bound languages.)

Multiple decorators fall out without any effort. There are
really only two issues:

1. The lack of a ":" at the end.

2. How to handle multiple blocks in one expression.

On item 1. There are two good reasons for the ":":
readability and the fact that most Python aware editors
use it for automatic indentation.

Regardless of what happens, readability is going to take
a hit, and the editors can be patched.

The way to handle item 2 is with the following set of
indentation rules:

1. There may be at most one 'def' on a line (*not* in a
statement!)

2. If the expression containing the def does not end naturally
on the same line as the ')' at the end of the def, parsing of
the expression is  suspended at the end of that line (*not*
immediately after  the ')'. The reason for this rule is to allow
the containing statement to end in the most readable fashion,
if possible.

3. The statements for the def follow immediately
on the next line and following lines, indented either 1 or 2
levels depending on whether the containing expression ended
or was suspended.

4. The body of the function/method ends, as usual, when
any line is indented less (that is, farther to the left) than the
body of the function/method.

5. A suspended expression continues on the line immediately
after the end of the function body. It must be indented to the
left of the function body, and to the right of the indentation for
the statement containing the expression.

In looking at this, I see one other problem: a multi-line
statement that contains several lines after the last one that
contains a 'def'. My personal preference is that I can finish
out the statement before writing the function body, but I
don't see a way of managing both multiple blocks in one
expression and doing this.

Finally, I have another reason for liking this particular
syntax. It lets me stick methods into instances quite
directly, without having to invent yet another syntax, or
leaving them bound at the module level to both be bound
into the instance and also cleaned up from the module.
That's something that I need for certain kinds of programs
that are more easily expressed with a proto-type based
language, such as interactive fiction.

John Roth

>
> Pierre




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Mar  5 17:26:20 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:26:20 -0500
Subject: Upgrade 2.2.2 to 2.3.3: Keep my old 3rd party modules or rebuild
 them or reinstall from scratch?
In-Reply-To: <4048E752.75F37710@sdf.lonestar.org>
References: <4048E752.75F37710@sdf.lonestar.org>
Message-ID: <4048FE8C.7090408@rogers.com>

Anything with C code (and everything you described there has C code) 
needs to be rebuilt (and/or redownloaded).  (Most projects have 2.3 
binaries available for download already).  Generally speaking, major 
versions of Python (x.x releases) are binary-extension incompatible with 
previous versions (x.w).

HTH,
Mike

Eduardo Bernal wrote:

>I'd like to upgrade to 2.3.3, mostly to use VPython. I have a lot of
>stuff not in the standard distro,
>VPython, PIL, wxPython, eGenix tools, etc. How much of this stuff can I
>still use as is, i.e. just copying over the 2.2 site-lib stuff to the
>2.3 site-lib stuff? What will I have to rebuild? TIA
>
>Ed 
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 31 20:10:32 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 20:10:32 -0500
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895 at fed1read04>,
Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
>
>Self defines having the same attribute in two different prototypes
>illegal.  That seemed extremely constraining to me so I went with the
>Python 2.2 mro solution in Prothon.

Bad idea.  But I won't tell you why until you stop top-posting and
over-quoting.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 13 20:16:57 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:16:57 -0000
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1057ck9gsho2a32@corp.supernews.com>

In article <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059 at fe3.columbus.rr.com>,
kbass <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job market looks
>for programming using Python. I really don't see many jobs (probably one or
>two) that require Python experience at all. Most DBA and SA positions that I
>have seen require Perl and most development position require Java or C++ so
>how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little to no chance
>that an employer will require the use of Python or consider using Python
>over other programming languages such as Java?
>
>kbass
>
>

Learning Python is highly unlikely to benefit your career in
the sense of qualifying you for an advertised position, for
the reasons you have cited.  The Python job market is ridi-
culously small, although it's grown more over the past year
than I expected.

Learning Python quite likely will benefit your career because
you'll be a better programmer.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com  Tue Mar 30 08:27:55 2004
From: spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com (Vrai Stacey)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:27:55 +0100
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1080653301.114229@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>

I would assume it's because most people come to Python having programmed 
other languages. In most other languages (excepting stuff like 
Pascal/Modula-2/etc ...) '=' is used for assignment and '==' for 
equality. Thus, in the name of aiding the adoption of Python, it makes 
sense to follow this trend.

Fuzzyman wrote:
> I may be about to get flamed as some heretic against the ancient
> way..... but if assignment in conditional statements isn't
> possible.... why do we need to use '==' instead of just '=' for if and
> while statements ?
> 
> It's possible there are places where the interpreter could fail to
> understand it, but I haven't found them yet. If there *aren't* any
> situations where one could be confused for the other... then it's not
> needed and is annoying :-)
> 
> The same could equally well be true for the trailing ':' after def, if
> etc statements..............
> 
> 
> Anyway - not withstanding a  visit from the spanish inquisitionI'd be
> interested to hear.....(And are the spanish inquisition likely to use
> reasoning similar to the sort employed by those who advocate type
> declarations and static languages)...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fuzzy
> (recent python addict)
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Mar 12 04:36:32 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:36:32 +0000
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
Message-ID: <tm0350p6cqootqf7l79oinikgqhtpvj6m0@4ax.com>


[Will]
> I think nothing is more evil about coding standards than indentation. 

The first time I hacked the sources to Python itself I was astonished to
find that the coding standard for the C code specifies 8-space indents and
a line limit of 80 characters.  How could anyone write code in such a
restricted format?  Then I looked at the code and realised what a
wonderful effect those rules have.  The code is simple, clearly written,
well organised and easy to read and understand.  And I believe the code I
contributed is higher quality as a result of those restrictions.  Had I
followed my own (loose) standard of 4-character indents and 100-character
lines, the code would have been harder to read - it would have had deeper
nesting and more complicated expressions.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Sat Mar  6 09:33:13 2004
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:33:13 -0500
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
In-Reply-To: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
References: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040306143313.GA97088@hishome.net>

"""There are so many programming languages out there, but has there ever
been one which is both simple and powerful? And which is good for both
beginners as well as experts? And which is fun to program with? There is!
It is called Python. This book will help you learn this wonderful language
and show how to get things done quickly and painlessly - in effect "The
Perfect Anti-Venom for your programming problems!" 

Python is talked about as the 100-year language. Why? Because they say it
will be the only programming language in use a 100 years from now... 
"""

I think I am as enthusiastic about Python as anyone else on this newsgroup
but this gushing praise of Python in the preface makes me a bit uneasy. If 
I were new to Python it would be a complete turnoff for me "...oh no, yet
another religious fanatic..."

I think it may be better to tone it down a little to avoid alienating 
potential new converts to our secret cult planning world domination ;-)

   Oren




From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Tue Mar  9 18:57:10 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 15:57:10 -0800
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403091557.185569af@posting.google.com>

biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca (biner) wrote...

>   I would like to know if there is a module out there to help me get
> the size of a gif image. The idea is to verify that the size is not
> greater than a certain value before forcing it toward a given
> dimension in a web page.

Try this:

    import struct

    def is_gif(in_file):
        hdr, ver, w, h = struct.unpack('3s3sHH', in_file.read(10))

        if hdr == 'GIF':
            return ver, w, h


It will return the GIF file version (87a or 89a), the width, and the
height. If the file is not a GIF, you will get None instead (or an
Exception if the file-like object you passed had less than 10 bytes
readable).

This will save you the use of a heavy duty library for the simple case
of extracting image dimensions.


>   Also, is there any way to know which function is used if we use two
> module that define the same function with the same name and arguments.
> E.g. the join function is present in the string module and the os.path
> module with string as input and output. Is there a way to force Python
> to tell me of the possible conflict?

If you have a 'join' function in some namespace and you don't know who
owns it, you should probably look at reorganising your code.

Alternatively:

    print "Is os.path.join:", join is os.path.join
    print "Is string.join:", join is string.join
    print "Is str.join:", join is str.join


David.


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 11:06:55 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:06:55 -0600
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3kddr$27gt2e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.207.1079881172.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3kddr$27gt2e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16477.48543.834378.633637@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> The fundamental difference between Java and Python in this regard is
    >> that the JVM must absolutely be part of the defined API since it is
    >> delivered separate from the compiler.

    Jon> Absolutely untrue.  The JVM is part of the Java /spec/, but has
    Jon> nothing to do with the /API/ (e.g. Java 2 Standard Edition) that
    Jon> application programmers use.

Sorry, terminology flub.  Spec, external interface, API...  What I meant was
that the Java folks obligated themselves to keep it compatible.  There are
no such claims for the Python VM.

    >> Whoever does this stuff probably has to go to great lengths to
    >> preserve compatibility.  This is not the case for the Python VM,
    >> since a new version is delivered with each distribution.

    Jon> I don't get what you're trying to say here.  The JVM has changed
    Jon> very little (or not at all) over the different Java versions.

The Python VM changes frequently, certainly when compared to the Java VM.
The PVM is an implementation detail.  Your experience with Batik could not
in general be replicated with a tar file full of Python bytecode, and I'm
not sure I'd want it to be.

    Jon> The only reason I can think of for wanting CPython's VM to remain
    Jon> undocumented / not-nailed-down is because we want to make it easier
    Jon> / give more freedom to the language designers to implement the
    Jon> plumbing for new Python features.

Exactly.

Skip



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar  7 15:58:38 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:58:38 -0800
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E8A@opus.amorhq.net>

Roy Smith wrote:
> I ended up with:
> 
> map = {}
> for name, value in globals().items():
>         if name.startswith ("OP_"):
>                 map[value] = name
> 
> which seems to work just fine.  Thanks to everybody who 
> responded with suggestions.
> 
> The danger here is that I'm depending on the fact that there are no 
> globals defined elsewhere in the system which start with 
> "OP_", but that 
> seems like a pretty minimal risk.  In fact, it looks like all the 
> externally defined globals are of the form __xxx__.

To help avoid the global collision issue, dump all your OP_ values in a
module-level dictionary or something similar. For a good example, have a
look at the standard library module "htmlentitydefs.py", which should be
included your distribution. It does basically one thing; it provides a
name-to-codepoint dictionary like this:

name2codepoint = {
    'AElig':    0x00c6,
    'Aacute':   0x00c1,
    'Acirc':    0x00c2,
    ...
    'zeta':     0x03b6,
    'zwj':      0x200d,
    'zwnj':     0x200c,
}

...but then goes on to provide a reverse lookup dictionary a la:

# maps the Unicode codepoint to the HTML entity name
codepoint2name = {}

# maps the HTML entity name to the character
# (or a character reference if the character is outside the Latin-1
range)
entitydefs = {}

for (name, codepoint) in name2codepoint.iteritems():
    codepoint2name[codepoint] = name
    if codepoint <= 0xff:
        entitydefs[name] = chr(codepoint)
    else:
        entitydefs[name] = '&#%d;' % codepoint

del name, codepoint


This produces a number of benefits:

1. Keeps the globals() cleaner, and avoids collisions.
2. Makes your iteration code faster, since you're now iterating over a
known, limited set of values, not every possible global.
3. Most importantly, it makes those values more developer-friendly,
since they can now be overridden by consumers. That is, I can't as a
consumer of your code write:

    yourmodule.OP_fish = 'slap'

However, if you place them in a dictionary, I can write:

    yourmodule.OP_vars['fish'] = 'slap'

Even better, of course, would be to place them and their consumers
together in a class, so I could subclass it, but it's far from a perfect
world. ;)


HTH!

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From michael at foord.net  Mon Mar 29 08:56:59 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 05:56:59 -0800
Subject: Does py2exe work with Tkinter?
References: <rHL9c.7383$ol3.34@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403290556.1fd65c7a@posting.google.com>

<CaptainN at altel.net> wrote in message news:<rHL9c.7383$ol3.34 at fe03.usenetserver.com>...
> I've just started playing with py2exe and tried to create a distribution for
> a slightly complex Tkinter program that refers to a class in another file.
> I just try to create an .exe for the main Tkinter program but it's not
> functional; setup says that it's missing SSL and some java classes which I
> didn't know my program was using.
> 
> Anyone run across this before, or have any examples of a working
> distribution?
> 
> Thanks,
> CaptainN

I've certainly used py2exe succesfully with Tkinter - several times.
It handled the imports of other classes fine.... but I've not used any
Java classes or the SSL library. I did have an issue where I was using
the openbrowser module (?) - which was importing the SSL module which
I didn't need (an extra 500k to my distributable...) - in that case
just deleting it worked fine....


Regards,


Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sat Mar  6 23:01:00 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:01:00 +1100
Subject: Problem processing Chinese character with Python
In-Reply-To: <20040306100511.42005.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040306100511.42005.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040307040100.GG1878@frobozz>

On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 02:05:11AM -0800, Anthony Liu wrote:
> Andrew gave me a sample code with let me read a text
> file sentence by sentence.
> 
> Suppose I just wanna read the part between 2 full
> stops each time.
> 
> It works nicely with English text files, where the
> full stop is a dot (.).  
> 
> But when I tried to read Chinese text files, I found
> that it sometimes reads a few sentences at one time.

Yep -- you'll notice I'm reading bytes, but the sentences generator is
expecting characters.  That assumption holds for ASCII, but not many other
encodings.

You need some way of reading *characters*, rather than bytes from the file.
To do this you need to know the encoding of the file (of course), and then I
guess you need to try to decode the bytes as you read them in.  I'm just a
boring mono-lingual English speaker, so I haven't really played with unicode
much, but I guess something along these lines would work:

def characters(textFile, encoding):
    bytes = ''
    for byte in iter(lambda: textFile.read(1), ''):
        bytes += byte
        try:
            yield bytes.decode(encoding)
        except TypeError:
            pass
        else:
            bytes = ''
    if bytes:
        yield bytes.decode(encoding)
        
Hopefully someone who knows more about unicode will tell me if I've somehow
got this completely wrong.
        
Again, reading one byte at a time is pretty inefficient.  You can probably
optimise fairly easily by reading and decoding large chunks.

-Andrew.




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 28 21:49:46 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:49:46 -0600
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <001701c41530$747c8e70$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
	<000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<001701c41530$747c8e70$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
Message-ID: <16487.36554.899992.486386@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Can you submit a patch to SF which abstracts that into its own method
    >> ("end_request" or something similar?) which can be overridden.
    >> [snip]
    >> That sounds like the main problem.  Sounds like getting the
    >> shutdown() call into its own overridable method would help a lot.

    Roger> That doesn't help.  Basically what has happened is due to a
    Roger> defect in Python (IMHO).  Because objects that include a
    Roger> destructor (__del__) won't necessarily have the destructor
    Roger> called, and file/socket handles are real operating system
    Roger> resources, the code has to manually call close everywhere to
    Roger> ensure they aren't leaked (very reminiscent of C memory
    Roger> management).  

You're shooting the messenger.  Every language whose objects can form cycles
has to deal with the issue of reclaiming those cycles in the presence of
destructors.  There is no automatically correct place to break such cycles.
In those situations you have to either avoid cycles, decide how to reclaim
them or get rid of __del__ in potentially cycle-forming objects.

Skip



From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 13 10:12:07 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:12:07 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7ln4501mfe70sgrrk25fn0sj80f6cn8vt7@4ax.com>
	<mailman.339.1079150193.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p59650597qpga2auq0jl3djknif8fl7aal@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:56:24 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    Dave> I've written a short description of what reload() does to try and
>    Dave> help reduce the confusion.  This is intended for EEs who are new
>    Dave> to Python.
>
>I'm not sure why you're planning to teach them reload().  I've used it
>rarely in about ten years of Python programming.  Its basic semantics are
>straightforward, but as we've seen from the discussions in this thread
>things can go subtly awry.  Just tell people to either not create references
>which refer to globals in other modules (e.g. "quote = urllib.quote") if
>they intend to use reload() or tell them to just exit and restart their
>application, at least until they understand the limitations of trying to
>modify a running Python program.

I don't think we can avoid reload().  A typicial design session has
several tools running, and it is a real pain to restart.  Design
engineers often leave sessions open for several days.

What I will try to do is write the modules that are likely to be
reloaded in a way that minimizes the problems, accessing objects in
those modules *only* via their fully-qualified names, etc.

Again, these are interactive sessions.  I don't think I will need
reload() as part of the code.

-- Dave



From htgk at mail.com  Tue Mar 16 07:05:39 2004
From: htgk at mail.com (Moe A)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 04:05:39 -0800
Subject: Exim Users?
Message-ID: <mailman.1079443564.5851.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Hi,

I am developing a GNOME Exim monitor/manager in python, and its in
beta right now..I was wondering if anyone wanted to try it out and
give me feedback...

you can download it at www.htgresearch.net/pyeximon-0.5.tar.gz

it requires python-gtk and python-numeric.

Thanks,
Moe



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 10 13:14:13 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:14:13 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<104q64b2uf3nl0b@news.supernews.com>
	<c2mrrq$1k7$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<104u4ktn5hoc9db@news.supernews.com>
	<k1hu40ll9e7e3snd8jiqc9trptntltmcke@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <104un81j1oj7d0@news.supernews.com>


"Stephen Horne" <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k1hu40ll9e7e3snd8jiqc9trptntltmcke at 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:04:22 -0500, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >> While that makes some sense, what about "uncle" references within the
> >> current package?
> >
> >I'm not sure what you mean by "Uncle." The term usually
> >means "parent's brother" or "some son of your grandparents
> >other than your father" so I'd assume it would go up one
> >directory and then sideways, which would require going up
> >another directory.
> >
> >If you are refering to another module in the same directory
> >that this one came from, then I'd code that as:
> >
> >import *.foo
> >
> >However, possibly you meant "cousin?"
>
> That doesn't sound right either.
>
> A cousin is an uncles son. Maybe he meant sibling or brother.
>
> sibling = sideways ref
> uncle   = up then sideways ref
> cousin  = up then sideways ref then down
>
> OTOH, it depends where you consider the start point to be. It seems
> pointless to have the start point as 'self', so maybe the start point
> is 'father'. A simple reference would then be to a sibling (implicit
> up then down) and a sideways reference to an uncle.
>
> I'm probably just confused, though I'd love to know exactly how.

Probably a lack of clarity on my part. The way I look at
it is:

If a letter is a directory (package) and a letter
and number is a module, then:

A is the grandfather
A.B is the father
A.B.B1 is the module that contains the import statement.
A.B.B2 is another module in the same package
A.B.D is a package that is a sibling of B1 and B2
A.B.D.D1 is a module in package D, and is therefore a nephew
A.C is an uncle (the father's sibling)
A.C.C1 is a cousin.
A.A1 is another uncle

* then refers to the package (directory) that
contains the module with the import statement.

^ refers to that package's parent directory.

*.B2 referes to a sibling of B1
^.C.C1 refers to a cousin of B1
^.A1 refers to a module in package A
*.D.D1 refers to the nephew D1

Hope this clarifies my way of looking at it.

John Roth
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Horne
>
> steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk




From bogus at bogus.net  Wed Mar  3 06:39:25 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:39:25 GMT
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
	<kej1c.29806$qo.12839@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Ntj1c.29921$qo.12752@fe1.texas.rr.com>

Sorry about that last null post, my fingers tripped over the send button
before I started typing my response.

-- Paul




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 20:34:38 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:34:38 -0800
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c388ik$24slfg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<roy-5C13A4.20221416032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4057AB2E.4BD34FA9@alcyone.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I can't believe I forgot about that!

Well, pointer arithmetic is certainly a different class of operations
than was being talked about here, so literally it's true that you can
perform the addition but semantically it has a totally different and
unrelated meaning than addition between strings and integers in other
languages.

> Of course, if we're going to
> play
> those games, there's always:
> 
> Roy-Smiths-Computer:play$ cat sub.c
> main ()
> {
>     printf ("%d\n", "eight" - "sixteen");
>     exit (0);
> }
> Roy-Smiths-Computer:play$ ./sub
> -8

Cute, but this actually invokes undefined behavior.  Pointer difference
is only meaningful when you're subtracting two pointers that both
reference the same (possibly aggregate) object (or one past the end of
the array).  It happens to give some weird number here; according to the
Standard the program could reasonably crash (and on, say, segmented
architectures, it's far more likely something bizarre would happen).

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Liberty without learning is always in peril; learning without
    liberty is always in vain. -- John F. Kennedy


From otto_kruse at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 10:31:10 2004
From: otto_kruse at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Otto_Kr=FCse?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:31:10 +0100
Subject: Hiding console window
In-Reply-To: <4059b239$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<pdKdnSucPq3BNMTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca> <4059b239$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <4059c0bd$0$47227$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>

You can tell py2exe to make a windows exe by putting the line windows = 
["yourscript.py"] in your setup.py script.


Example:
	"""
	# A setup script

	from distutils.core import setup
	import py2exe

	setup(windows = ["yourScript.py"])
	"""


What I'm wondering about now if there's a way to achieve the same for a 
python script (instead of the .exe version of that script). --> I want 
to double-click on a python Tkinter script and only see the GUI, not the 
console window behind it. Does anyone know how to do this?

Regards,
Otto



Josef Meile wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> Lucas Raab wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking to play a joke on a friend and I'm wondering if there's a 
>>> way to
>>> not show or hide the DOS console. My friend doesn't have python so I 
>>> have to
>>> compile it to an EXE.
>>
>>
>>
>> Use py2exe to compile Python programs to EXEs.
>>
>> You would need to define what "hide" means to you to get a useful 
>> answer to the first part of the question.  I would just click on the 
>> "close" gadget in the upper right corner, if I wanted to "hide" a DOS 
>> console...
>>
>> -Peter
> 
> I think there is a way of telling py2exe that the program is a windows
> exe, so you won't see the console. You just have to invoque the py2exe
> help. If I'm not wrong the option should be "--help" or "-h"
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Josef
> 


From mikegmulcahy at eircom.net  Tue Mar  2 11:58:28 2004
From: mikegmulcahy at eircom.net (Michael Mulcahy)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 08:58:28 -0800
Subject: shelve problem
Message-ID: <a5b33340.0403020858.76e1cf4b@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

Problem: Shelve module doesn't like me

OS: Win2000
version: 2.3.3 

Here is simple reproduction code and the error that occurs:

import shelve, anydbm
try:
    test = shelve.open('hello', 'r') # file hello does not exist
except:
    pass # this is called as hello does not exist

Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "DbfilenameShelf instance has no
attribute 'writeback'" in
>>> 

Stack:
'__main__', line 7: pass
'shelve'.__del__(), line 148: self.close()
'shelve'.close(), line 140: self.sync()
> 'shelve'.sync, line 151: if self.writeback and self.cache:

Forgive me if this query is obvious but I have searched mailing lists
and google but could not resolve the issue.

Speculative Analysis:

shelve.open calls the DbfilenameShelf constructor passing the filename
"hello".

The DbfilenameShelf constructor does the following:

    def __init__(self, filename, flag='c', protocol=None,
writeback=False, binary=None):
        import anydbm
        Shelf.__init__(self, anydbm.open(filename, flag), protocol,
writeback, binary)

The function anydbm.open throws an exception because:
    1. the filename does not exist 
    2. the flag does not not contain a 'c' or an 'n' 
    (See anydbm.py line 77)

As the file "hello" does not exist the exception is thrown and caught
in my code.

I presume that python constructs the DbfilenameShelf object but does
not construct the parent shelf object because of that exception.

Then when python is cleaning up it destructs the DbfilenameShelf
object which I presume calls the destructor of the parent shelf
object. As the shelf object was not created due to initial exception,
python could not see the attributes and hence the Attribute Error
exception.

Comments Anyone?

Any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Michael.


From j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net  Thu Mar 25 09:44:07 2004
From: j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net (Jon Willeke)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:44:07 GMT
Subject: strptime in 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <2e3b9aea.0403250448.5ac28cef@posting.google.com>
References: <2e3b9aea.0403250448.5ac28cef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XeC8c.8353$Uh5.7613@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Glawster wrote:

> I am parsing a list of directories that have a name format
> 'YearWeekNoDay', using the follwoing code
> 
>             print "%s" % (time.strptime (list_dir[j], '%Y%U%w'))
> 
> strptime doesn't seem to be treating this correctly, have I missed
> something?

Looks like a bug.  Note that the implementation of strptime in 2.3 is 
brand new.


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar  9 13:20:16 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 20:20:16 +0200
Subject: [OT] GP, Qt (was Re: ready to use python,
	need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<cr9k4015r8nc2a0ffheih0p2c6vj6rrcip@4ax.com>
	<du7smglfx71.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<8dqk409dl1ncfq77kfipe7bj7dt64p0iif@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du7ishd6fxb.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "David" == David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

    David> What I'm saying is that if you are in this rare situation,
    David> can't afford the licesne, and not sure your product will
    David> ever be sold, you just have to be careful not to release
    David> the product before paying your dues.  The only "danger" I

It's not only about creating a product that might or might not be sold
- it's about creating a product than can run on win32. Also, I'm not
absolutely certain that the Qt commercial license allows this - what's
there to stop a big company developing all the software with GPL
version of Qt, and finally release the version that is "mastered" by a
commercially licensed Qt?

    David> claim it as GPL and avoid paying your license.  Maybe I'm
    David> misunderstanding the problems and dangers you forsee.
    David> Could you be more specific?

A part of it is the fact that quite often there is a lot of
"convincing" to do to be able to choose a specific platform for
developing a product. If you were trying to push Linux/Python/Qt
combo, you would have to convince people to shell out
$1550/developer/YEAR. That's (much?) more expensive than Windows
development tools, and is not going to work well as an argument. You
minimize the risk of being shot down by suggesting something like
wxPython instead.

Also, if you choose to develop a considerable piece of commercial code
in Qt, you develop a large codebase that is dependent on the library
(and can't be trivially rewritten to use another toolkit). This might
mean you need to keep paying Trolltech until the end of the world. It
might be an expensive mistake, esp. if you had the option to choose a
free toolkit.

    >> I would suggest instead that all the "valuable", back end parts
    >> of a program be coded UI-independently (good idea in any case),

    David> license at all.  I also question the legality.  It gets
    David> down to a question of whether "connecting via CORBA" is
    David> equivalent to "linking".  There is certainly more danger in

Of course it isn't. It is anologous to accessing a Samba share - it
would be ridiculous to connect the license of network server with the
license of clients that access it. Well, I guess that might be a
standard practice in some (very) proprietary environments, but I would
steer clear of such systems...

    David> on the GPL end.  It seems like what you are suggesting is
    David> no different than releasing a program under GPL, but
    David> with-holding a key piece for which you charge a license.

This is entirely doable. It might also be the only option if your
company opposes GPLing their code at any cost, and you feel you would
benefit from using a GPLd subsystem. GPL doesn't forbid this: if the
key piece is trivial to implement, people will implement it and use a
completely GPL'd version.

    David> deal at that point.  I have never understood the intensity
    David> of this debate over the Qt licenses.  I guess I never will.

See http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace
("Are You a Sharecropper?").

I appreciate the power of the Qt toolkit, and the wonderful DE they
have built on it and which I use exclusively ATM (KDE; 3.2
rocks). It's just that I wouldn't use it for my own code, and wouldn't
recommend anyone who doesn't understand the implications to do so -
esp. a newbie that's looking for a nice toolkit to use for a small
project at work. Such decision has to be made when you are completely
aware of all the gotchas.

LGPL are BSD libraries are worry free, and can be safely used at all
times. If you are using a GPL'd or a proprietary library you are
playing with fire, and you should be aware of the consequences.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sat Mar 27 23:04:17 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:04:17 +1000
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <20040328040417.GA24092@frobozz>

On Sun, Mar 28, 2004 at 03:37:25AM +0000, Joe Mason wrote:
[...]
> 
> Ed Suominen just posted a situation where classes and instances need to
> be treated separately.  He has a class, "AutoText", with various
> subclasses (which I'll call "AutoA", "AutoB", etc. because I forget the
> details).  He wants to notice whenever somebody creates a subclass of
> AutoText and add it to a list so that he can have an AutoAll function
> which creates just one instance of each.  (Or something like that.)
> 
[...]
> In Python, the easiest way to do this is with metaclasses, which is a
> really advanced topic.  In Prothon, it's simple to "notice" when a
> subclass is created, because __init__ gets called!  So you just say:

Actually, in Python, it's even easier than that:

>>> class C(object): pass
... 
>>> class D(C): pass
... 
>>> C.__subclasses__()
[<class '__main__.D'>]

-Andrew.




From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 22 09:42:01 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:42:01 +0000
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <8351bb33.0403220632.5becbc0c@posting.google.com>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<8351bb33.0403220632.5becbc0c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405efb39$0$28151$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Jon Nicoll wrote:

> Hi Peter
> 
> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message news:<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>...
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
>>
>>>Such reactions always astonish me, especially given the good guy I know
>>>I am! :-) In French (maybe in English too?) we say that we "put white
>>>gloves" when we get extremely cautious ...
>>
>>The UK English phrase would be to "put on kid gloves" kid gloves being 
>>very soft and gentle type of leather (supposedly made from juveniles).
> 
> 
> er, I think 'supposedly made from [the skin of] juvenile _goats_ ...'
> 
>     Regards
>     Jon N

As they say, God is in the details.


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Mar 29 08:09:57 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:09:57 +1000
Subject: Semantics of ==
In-Reply-To: <40200384.0403290426.5aca2b2d@posting.google.com>
References: <4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
	<40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com>
	<4064C072.62D8E489@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403290426.5aca2b2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040329130957.GC5586@frobozz>

On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 04:26:34AM -0800, Axel Boldt wrote:
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> > Axel Boldt wrote:
> > > Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
> > > 
> > > > What part of the semantics are you unclear about?  Two sequences are
> > > > equal if they are element-wise equal.
> > > 
> > > That definition is circular.
> > 
> > No, because presumably you already understand what equality means for
> > two non-sequence objects.
> 
> Yes, but a list can contain other lists, and even itself, as elements.
> So in order to understand what equality for lists means, according to
> the above definition, you already need to understand what equality for
> lists means. That's what makes the definition circular. I thought we
> had clarified that much a week ago.

No, it makes the definition recursive.  There's a difference.

-Andrew.




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 19:56:27 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:56:27 -0600
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16470.20667.339574.670542@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Axel> is there a rationale for the following behavior:

    >>> a = (1,2)
    >>> b = (1,2)
    >>> a is b
    False
    >>> a = "12"
    >>> b = "12"
    >>> a is b
    True

Sure.  The "is" operator doesn't do an element-by-element comparison of the
two objects.  It only compares the memory addresses of the two objects being
compared.  The difference between the tuple case and the string case is that
string literals which look roughly like identifiers (no spaces, all letters,
digits or underscores) are automatically interned and are thus shared.  As
Andrew Koenig indicated, it's an implementation detail.  It improves
performance to intern identifiers and it's not worth the extra expense to
decide if a string literal is really being used as a variable name, so all
strings which look structurally like identifiers are interned.  You should
generally only use "is" to compare objects against known singleton objects:
None, True, False and Ellipsis.  Use "==" for everything else.

Skip



From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Sat Mar 20 09:04:49 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:04:49 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
Message-ID: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>


I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some 
and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language 
similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in the 
wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish 
language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's basic 
syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to denote 
code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic 
and OO features would still be interesting to me (indeed, it would really have 
to lose most of the dynamic characteristics in order to make it a compilable 
language, which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).  Is 
there such a thing?




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 18 18:27:35 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:27:35 -0800
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.140.1079640183.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405A3067.2C7E6F98@alcyone.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> This may be the required set of punctuation (the rest are available as
> digraphs or trigraphs:
>     ! " % & ' ( ) * + , - . / : ; < = > ? _
> 
> My source for the set of punctuation is:
>     http://csit1cwe.fsu.edu/extra_link/vac/compiler/ref/rulngchr.htm

Note there's a subtle distinction here; this is the list of required
punctuation _in C source code_.  It doesn't have to be the same set of
required punctuation of the character set with which a C program is
running (although obviously usually it will be).  Furthermore, the
original poster didn't have anything to say about punctuation at all, so
I'm not even sure why you're bringing this up.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ I do not promise to consider race or religion in my appointments.
    I promise only that I will not consider them. -- John F. Kennedy


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Mar 25 23:51:13 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 15:41:13 +1050
Subject: http request doesn't work!
References: <lga760lrot49331hc43mcp9fd0i8vfufi6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc67erh.1ei.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

bart3rNOSPAM at clinicdesignNOSPAM.com.au wrote:
> Could someone please let me know what i'm doing wrong here:

Using the obsolete httplib.HTTP class.

    <http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-httplib.html>

Try using HTTPConnection and HTTPResponse objects:

    >>> import httplib
    >>>
    >>> webhost = 'adsl.internode.on.net'
    >>> pagepath = '/htm/un-metered-sites-ip-list.htm'
    >>>
    >>> http_conn = httplib.HTTPConnection( webhost )
    >>> http_conn.request( 'GET', pagepath )
    >>>
    >>> http_resp = http_conn.getresponse()
    >>> ( http_resp.status, http_resp.reason )
    (200, 'OK')

-- 
 \      "I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a |
  `\               full house and four people died."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar 16 16:32:54 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:32:54 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<QuJ5c.3008$G3.27398@localhost>
Message-ID: <roy-D263BB.16325416032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <QuJ5c.3008$G3.27398 at localhost>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> > Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string 
> > "four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it.  Oddly enough, Java 
> > (in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at automagic 
> > polymorphism) will let you add them.  No clue what C# does.
> 
> It's been a while since I Java-ed, but doesn't it "append" them, as in 
> convert the integer to a string and then join the two strings, rather 
> than "add" them (which I take to mean "calculate the sum of")?
> 
> (That's probably what you meant, but I'm just checking.  I'd be 
> surprised to find that Java actually performed the string-to-value 
> conversion implicitly.)
> 
> -Peter

Yes, "four" + 3 ==> "four3"

I could imagine a language where "4" + 3 ==> 7 (actually, I don't have 
to imagine it, all I need do is look at perl).  But, a language where 
"four" + 3 ==> 7 would be pretty bizarre :-)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Mar 20 10:08:29 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:08:29 -0600
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040320150829.GB24288@unpythonic.net>

Well, there's Pyrex ...  It's intended for the creation of Python
shared modules, but you could build an entire program with it.

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 18:15:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:15:20 -0500
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
In-Reply-To: <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <FfOdnaSS6aaUl9Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Mathias Waack wrote:
> Bart Nessux wrote:
> 
>>Is there a shred module in Python? 
> 
> First: It is not possible. Let me cite some sentences from shred(1):
> 
>        CAUTION: Note  that  shred  relies  on  a  very  important
>        assumption:  that the filesystem overwrites data in place.
>        This is the traditional way to do things, but many  modern
>        filesystem  designs  do  not satisfy this assumption.

I'm fairly sure that at least some "journalling" or "logging" file 
systems, such as ReiserFS, or maybe ext3, on Linux, violate this assumption.

-Peter


From http  Fri Mar 12 23:04:10 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 20:04:10 -0800
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7x8yi5wfyd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:
> How else could I twist this up?

Rather than entering the plaintext password through the passwd
command, your best bet is for your script to edit /etc/passwd or
/etc/shadow and replace the new hashed password with the correct one.
Note that the hashed password is always the same length and should
always be in the same location (on the first line) of the file, so you
should be able to just overwrite it in place.


From no at sp.am  Mon Mar 22 19:20:28 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:20:28 -0600
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <r9GdnQ5r569UH8Ld4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

> I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.

Hi, you might search for applications built using pygame and pyopengl. 
See also vpython.


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 26 17:05:22 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:05:22 -0800
Subject: Newbie trying to use HTTPS, pls help
In-Reply-To: <4063c33b$0$3953$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
References: <4063c33b$0$3953$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <c429l1$fmp$1@news.service.uci.edu>


Python 2.2 on windows does not support SSL.  Python 2.3 on windows 
mostly does (there are a few SSL bits that don't work quite so well).

Check out TLS Lite:
http://trevp.net/tlslite/
and M2Crypto:
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps/m2/

  - Josiah


> Hi,
> I think the sockets module has not been compiled for ssl. That's my guess at
> why this won't work...
> Can anyone suggest a better way..
> 
> set up params & headers
> ....
> 
>>>>conn = httplib.HTTPSConnection("betting.sports555.com") // imaginary url
>>>>conn.request("POST", "/cgi-bin/login", params, headers)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
>     conn.request("POST", "/cgi-bin/login", params, headers)
>   File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 701, in request
>     self._send_request(method, url, body, headers)
>   File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 723, in _send_request
>     self.endheaders()
>   File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 695, in endheaders
>     self._send_output()
>   File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 581, in _send_output
>     self.send(msg)
>   File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in send
>     self.connect()
>   File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 945, in connect
>     ssl = socket.ssl(realsock, self.key_file, self.cert_file)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'ssl'


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Mar  1 16:21:57 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:21:57 +0100
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <04Mar1.130539pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>
References: <04Mar1.130539pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <20040301212156.GA6304@nl.linux.org>

Bill Janssen wrote:
> print string.join([(((ord(x) > 0 and ord(x) < 0x7F) and x) or (r"\x%02x" % ord(x))) for x in line], '')

How about something like print repr(line)?

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 01/03 20:25 UTC:
	3.0??C   wind 3.6 m/s W (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Mar  4 16:41:24 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:41:24 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] Sightly off topic - download file name
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1078412314.24397.python-list@python.org>
References: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
	<mailman.12.1078412314.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4047a284$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

pxlpluker wrote:
> I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
> stored on disk.
> the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
> name appear in the browser DL window.
> i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
> have real name show in File Save dialog.
> 
> 
> Fred

This is not something Python-specific.
Have a look at the "Content-Disposition" HTTP header
(RFC 2183, http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2183.html)

For example when you add the following HTTP header to your
result message:

Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="foobar.txt"

most browsers will offer a download window for a file named
'foobar.txt'.


--Irmen


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Mar  9 02:39:30 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:39:30 GMT
Subject: distutils & Java components:  a JavaExtension for distutils?
References: <mailman.136.1078781572.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqx7jxua2q5.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Bill Janssen <janssen at parc.com> writes:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm putting together a package that is primarily Python but includes
> some Java components.  I'd like to write a single setup.py file for
> the whole thing, instead of using Makefiles, but I don't see any way
> to build Java jar files under distutils.  Has anyone developed a
> module for handling this?  Perhaps something like JavaExtension?
> 
> Bill
> 

I don't have an answer, but I do have a question: How are you hooking
Python and Java together?  I've asked here before and gotten the
recommendation to use XMLRPC.  I've looked at JPE, but it appears to
be broken (at least I couldn't get it to run).

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Mar 10 04:42:12 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:42:12 +0100
Subject: Package importing question
References: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>
	<c2l8n5$sqa$1@news.eusc.inter.net>
	<slrnc4t0dj.bhj.npat@pink.efault.net>
Message-ID: <c2mntl$26u$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Nick Patavalis wrote:
> So the first obvious question is how was m0 able to find the p0
> dictionary and the binding to m1? Am I getting something totally
> wrong so far?

m0 knows that it belongs to package p0 (possibly through the __file__ or the
__name__ variable). When 'import m1' is executed, the python import
mechanism
- locates the package module p0 in sys.modules
- searches directory p0 for m1.py
- loads m1.py and creates a module object
x inserts the newly created module object into the namespace of p0, the name
will always be m1
- inserts the newly created module object into the namespace of m0, the name
can be specified through import ... as ...

Line x happens so that a future import p0.m1 will find the same module
object.

You don't see sys in dir (p0) because the namespace of m0 isn't copied into
p0. Try it with
import m1 as mtest
You should see mtest in dir (m0) and m1 in dir (p0), but both being the same
module object.

Daniel





From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Tue Mar 30 10:03:08 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:03:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c4c27c$ksa$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

"Peter MacKenzie" <peter9547 at btinternet.com> writes:

>(Hmm, this might appear as a double posting, but I don't think my last one
>made it through.)

>Thanks, but.

>("One approach to discussing and comparing AI
>problem solving strategies is to categorize them using the
>terms ''strong'' and ''weak'' methods. Generally, a weak
>method is one which has the property of wide applicability
>but, because it makes few assumptions about the problem
>domain, can suffer from combinatorially explosive
>solution costs when scaling up to larger problems. State
>space search algorithms and random search are familiar
>examples of weak methods."

I think 'genetic programming' as opposed to GA may be more in your line.  GP
manipulates code directly with the usual crossovers, mutation etc.  It's
usually done in Lisp/Scheme since just about any mutation is always, at least,
syntactically valid.  The term 'evolutionary computing' is something of a
blanket term for these types of systems.  I don't have any good references,
it's something I want to pursue myself at some point.

Eddie


From dieter at handshake.de  Mon Mar 22 15:02:12 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 21:02:12 +0100
Subject: Threads and SIGSEGV
Message-ID: <x7u10glkfv.fsf@handshake.de>

Python 2.3.3, Linux 2.4.x:

It looks as if a SIGSEGV in a thread of a multi threaded
application does not kill the complete process under some circumstances
but only one thread (unrelated to the original SIGSEGV).

Although documented this way, this is arguably the wrong behaviour
for SIGSEGV (and some other signals that indicate program failure).


Dieter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  8 22:52:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:52:13 -0600
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.120.1078757424.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <20040309035213.GB18682@unpythonic.net>

[Mr. Binns helpfully deleted the attribution, so I didn't even realize
right away he was replying to my post]

Jeff Epler wrote:
> > Look, a bug!
> >
> > With this "feature", you have to scan the entire body of the loop
> > looking for a numeric break/continue if you're going to change the
> > indentation level, then increment or decrement the number.
> 
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 01:14:05PM -0800, Roger Binns wrote:
> Yes, but you can screw up any code when adding loops.

I wonder why I never remember being bitten by the bug you describe.
Maybe I rarely write code which requires the later addition of a
nested loop (something that would apply equally to today's "break" and
"numbered break").  Maybe I sort it out (but there's no guarantee I'm
smart enough to sort out a slightly more complex scheme).  Or maybe I
run into this all the time, stuggle to re-write the code within Python's
limitations, and then forget about it before the next time it happens.
Anyway, I'll remain firmly in the "don't need it" camp, while admitting
that my earlier example was poorly thought-out.

Interesting fact of the day: statistics from the library files included
with python2.2 (/usr/lib/python2.2/*.py):

Occurrences of "while" or "for": 2357
Occurrences of "continue" or "break": 526

(Using "egrep -w", so the words in comments or strings count towards the
total)

A minority of loops have a single continue or break.  Wouldn't it be an
extreme minority that are nested, need multi-level break, and aren't
expressed about as well in one of the other forms? (iterators being my
favorite, and exceptions being my least favorite)

As further evidence (either of the BDFL's bias, or the lack of need for
it) I offer the fact that list comprehensions and now generator
expressions don't have "break"/"continue" logic.  I have seen one call
for [g(x) for x in l while f(x)].  Currently this can be done with
itertools.takewhile(), but the BDFL has already decreed once that he'd
like to see listcomps and generator expressions replace map()/filter(),
so I'm a little surprised he accepted itertools.  Will itertools be
deprecated with the creation of generator expressions?

Jeff



From bbands at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 17:13:59 2004
From: bbands at yahoo.com (BBands)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 14:13:59 -0800
Subject: Python database
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <79780d4f.0403111413.7929a648@posting.google.com>

"@(none)" <""daniel\"@(none)"> wrote in message news:<4050647e$1 at puffinus.its.uu.se>...
> Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? As far as I 
> have understood there is no standard data base in Python. Why is this 
> so? Do people have too different needs?
> 
>       / Any help is much appreciated!


Simple and powerful:

SQLite
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/

and a python driver for SQLite
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysqlite

Enjoy,

    --jab


From katximan at gmx.net  Wed Mar 17 13:15:42 2004
From: katximan at gmx.net (Asier)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 10:15:42 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
	<fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4e1cc86c.0403171015.1f4b89f6@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 

> > GTK is a pain, wxpython is horribly slow, and tkinter doesn't have
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Your experience is clearly at odds with what most other people report 
> about wxPython.  (And, I might add, about GTK, as far as I can tell, 
> though I haven't used it myself.)

GTK is a pain because it's design doesn't fit well in my brain. Yes, I
know it isn't a good reason, but I feel more comfortable with other
approachs. I must say that pygtk is the best binding in terms of
support and features.

And I say wxPython is slow because startup time. I must develop for
old systems (Pentium 200, 64MB RAM) and takes a very long time to
start. That's a big step. If you have recent hardware wxpython is
great, but with old systems IMHO it's slow.

I like FXPy because it's very fast, has a lot of widgets and works
reasonably well.

--
Asier.


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:47:00 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:47:00 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com><95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6gS9c.58150$cx5.19190@fed1read04>

Speed tests on Prothon will be meaningless now.  The code is chock full of
debug stuff and is not optimized, either by humans or compiler.  We mean it
when we say pre-alpha.

"Jon Franz" <jfranz at neurokode.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list at python.org...
> > David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
> > > What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
> > > use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
> > > some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
> > > to be just templates to produce other objects.
> >
> > Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> > "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading
;-)
>
>   I think the move to tabs-only for indentation was to allow for
> single-pass compiling.  I'm not saying it was a good move, just that
> that's my guess for the reason :)
>
> What I found interesting was:
>  - the use of the Apache Portable Runtime
> (to provide threads, file and network services)
>  - native threads via locks on each object
>  - the stackless-ness
>  - multiple interpreters via native threads
>
>   It remains to be seen whether those sorts of changes result
> in any significant speed differences.  I may try writing some
> multithreaded test scripts and running them this weekend to see if
> an actual performance increase exists over multi-threaded python
> - if so, the internals may be of interest to the python community
> itself.
>   Has anyone else already performed that sort of performance
> comparison?
>
> ~Jon Franz
> NeuroKode Labs, LLC
> 513.260.5788
>
>




From whisper at oz.net  Sat Mar  6 04:55:41 2004
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:55:41 -0800
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file 
In-Reply-To: <20040306092251.17965.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFAEIPECAA.whisper@oz.net>

 
> Hey,
> I have a simple problem:
> I have this dictionary output as per the format I
> desired :
> index : value
> 
> However, I want to write this to a file, instead of
> just printing out to the std output.
> I tried to make a new string s= i+ ":" +v
> and fwrite(s) to the file. First it does not work.
> Second I loose the relationship of index with the
> value which I dont want. Can some one point me how to
> write this to a file while still preserving index:
> value relationship as it is present in the current
> dictionary.
> 
> Sorry for the basic questions, I am struggling with a
> project.
> 
> Thx
> Dont
> words = open('dictionary', 'r').read().split()
> dct = {}
> for i in xrange(len(words)):
>      dct[words[i]] = i
>      #print dct
> 
> 
> for i, v in enumerate(dct):
> 	#s= i+":"+v
> 	print i,":",v
> 


How about pickling the dictionary? See the pickle module in the doc.

import pickle

pickle.dump(dct, open('dctfilename.ext', 'w'))

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA



From s.meyer at technology-network.de  Thu Mar 18 05:02:42 2004
From: s.meyer at technology-network.de (Sebastian Meyer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:02:42 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
References: <mailman.76.1079518999.742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.03.17.14.43.43.489156@technology-network.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.18.10.02.42.736480@technology-network.de>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:43:44 +0100, Sebastian Meyer wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:22:47 +0100, Holger Joukl wrote:
>> threads["process"] = BatchProcessor()
>> # start the threads
>> for th in threads:
>>     th.start()  # <---- Does that work???
>> 
> of cource does this work, ... makes life a lot easier and saves up
> variable names ... :-))
> 

ough ... seems i ve made a mistake, of course this does not function,
what i meant was

for th in threads:
    threads[th].start()

Sebastian


From edcjones at erols.com  Fri Mar  5 08:43:26 2004
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:43:26 -0500
Subject: SeeGramWrap, a C parser
Message-ID: <4048850b$0$3084$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>

I have uploaded "SeeGramWrap-03.02.2004.tgz" to my webpage at 
"http://members.tripod.com/~edcjones/pycode.html". SeeGramWrap parses a 
piece of C code and the resulting parse tree is output in man and 
machine readable form. The result can be used for program 
transformations. Since a particular trnsformation algorithm may not 
require all the information present in the tree, the user can select 
what to output.

This program has been written and tested only under linux.

Thanks to John Mitchell and Monty Zukowski for "cgram.tgz". Every parser 
generator need to have a good C grammar. Also thanks to Terrence Parr 
for ANTLR (http://www.antlr.org/).

Note: I have also uploaded
   pydocs.tar.gz which searchs the Python documentation.
   linenum.py which prints a linenumber and a message. Useful for debugging.

========================================================================
                                CONTEXT

A number of large C libraries have been wrapped so they can be called by 
Python. The wrapping code is repetitive and there may be a lot of it so 
methods have been developed for automated wrapping.

The best-known approach is SWIG (http://www.swig.org/). For complex 
wrappings, SWIG requires the writing of "typemaps", an unintuitive 
process where pieces of C code you write are spliced into the wrapper 
code generated by SWIG.

Another wrapper related approach is Pyrex which is found at
         http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/
Pyrex has its own repetitive boilerplate that has to be written. But the 
Pyrex boilerplate is so straightforward that it can be taught 
algorithmically. See "Michael's Quick Guide to Pyrex" at 
"http://ldots.org/pyrex-guide/".

I think that the Pyrex boilerplate is _so_ straightforward that it can 
be machine generated. Therefore I have been sporatically developing 
software to do this. A thoroughly buggy version of this is on my web 
page, "http://members.tripod.com/~edcjones". It is called "cgram.tar.gz" 
(The name will be changed). Look at it but don't use it. "SeeGramWrap" 
is a major revision of the front end of "cgram.tr.gz".

I think the automatic-wrapper program can be made to work. It might be 
easier to use than SWIG. It is still a lot of work to prepare complex C 
header files. What we have is really a "program transformation" or "tree 
transformation" problem.

I think some of the issues are:

1. Since parser generators have a long and steep learning curve, I 
prefer to use them as black boxes which generate parsers which output 
results that I can analyze using Python. The parser created by a parser 
generator should output trees in two formats: one easy to look at and 
another that a program can easily read. For examples, see below.

2. I find trees very easy to work with. I want the trees to be front and 
center and highly visible. I prefer to "manipulate a tree" rather than 
"fire a rule".

3. The most common type of C macro has a type as one of its arguments:

     #define CAST(x, type) (type *) x

How can these be automatically wrapped for Python which is a dynamically 
typed language?

888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
                          TECHNICAL OVERVIEW

I use some C grammars associated with ANTLR. The grammar package is 
called "cgram". See "http://www.antlr.org/resources.html".

In "cgram" there is a java program "TestThrough.java" which parses C 
code into an AST then runs a tree grammar on the AST and outputs the 
original code. The tree grammar is named "GnuCEmitter.g". I work with 
this grammar because the terminal tokens are printed in the correct 
order. I modified the grammar turning it into a template. A piece of the 
original "GnuCEmitter.g" is:

----
typeQualifier
         :       a:"const"                       { print( a ); }
         |       b:"volatile"                    { print( b ); }
         ;
----

The modified version is:

----
typeQualifier
         :       a:"const"                       { <@ a @> }
         |       b:"volatile"                    { <@ b @> }
         ;
----

In this template, strings of the form "<@ ... @>" will each be replaced 
by a set of print statements. Moreover the entire rule will be wrapped 
by prints.  The template is used in "emitter/insert_prints.py". If 
"insert_prints.py" is run the result is:

----
typeQualifier
   { if ( inputState.guessing==0 ) {
           print(Open);
           print("typeQualifier");
        }
     }
         :  (
                 a:"const"        {  print(Open); 
print("typeQualifier.0"); print( a ); print(Close); }
         |       b:"volatile"     {  print(Open); 
print("typeQualifier.1"); print( b ); print(Close); }
            )
   { currentOutput.print(Close + MyTokenSep); }
         ;
----

If the original C program , "temp2.c", is

     char* s = "ab";

The output of the modified emitter grammar is "temp2.c.data":

----
     <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>
     externalList             declarator               expr
     <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>
     externalDef              pointerGroup             primaryExpr
     <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>
     declaration              pointerGroup.0           stringConst
     <<OPEN>>                 *                        <<OPEN>>
     declSpecifiers           <<CLOSE>>                stringConst.0
     <<OPEN>>                 <<CLOSE>>                "ab"
     typeSpecifier            <<OPEN>>                 <<CLOSE>>
     <<OPEN>>                 declarator.0             <<CLOSE>>
     typeSpecifier.1          s                        <<CLOSE>>
     char                     <<CLOSE>>                <<CLOSE>>
     <<CLOSE>>                <<CLOSE>>                <<CLOSE>>
     <<CLOSE>>                <<OPEN>>                 <<CLOSE>>
     <<CLOSE>>                initDecl.0               <<CLOSE>>
     <<OPEN>>                 =                        ;
     initDeclList             <<CLOSE>>                <<CLOSE>>
     <<OPEN>>                 <<OPEN>>                 <<CLOSE>>
     initDecl                 initializer              <<CLOSE>>
----

This output can be processed by "tree.py" to produce "temp2.c.nest"

----
(externalList,
   (externalDef,
     (declaration,
       (declSpecifiers,
         (typeSpecifier,
           (typeSpecifier.1, |char|))),
       (initDeclList,
         (initDecl,
           (declarator,
             (pointerGroup,
               (pointerGroup.0, |*|)),
             (declarator.0, |s|)),
           (initDecl.0, |=|),
           (initializer,
             (expr,
               (primaryExpr,
                 (stringConst,
                   (stringConst.0, |"ab"|))))))), |;|)))
----

or "temp2.c.src":

     char * s = "ab" ;

If "temp2.c.src" is put through the entire process itself we get 
"temp2.c.src.src" which is identical to "temp2.c.src". This test is done 
by "docheck.py".

In the ".data" or ".nest" files the tokens from the original C code are 
in the correct order. It is easy to recover

     ('char', '*', 's', '=', '"ab"', ';')


From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Tue Mar  2 18:59:27 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:59:27 +1100
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.02.23.59.16.433155@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:51:24 -0800, sb wrote:

> Hello
> 
> I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and about
> editing python with vim.
> 
> 

I'm very happy with word completion.

>From ":help ins-complet":

For example, the following will map <Tab> to either actually insert a <Tab> if
the current line is currently only whitespace, or start/continue a CTRL-N
completion operation: >

	function! CleverTab()
	   if strpart( getline('.'), 0, col('.')-1 ) =~ '^\s*$'
	      return "\<Tab>"
	   else
	      return "\<C-N>"
	endfunction
	inoremap <Tab> <C-R>=CleverTab()<CR>

I found out about this wrt "pydiction" which parses python files
and outputs a diction file with words for vim to complete on. However,
I don't use it, as it pollutes the completion namespace too much.

Simon.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 22:10:11 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:10:11 -0600
Subject: Package importing question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>
References: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>
Message-ID: <20040310031011.GC20145@unpythonic.net>

m1 appears in p0's dict not because it's in m0's dict
but because when a submodule is imported it is put in its parent
module's dict.  If you were to
    import p0.m1
you'd see 'm1' in dir(p0).

Jeff



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 14 19:27:25 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:27:25 -0000
Subject: dislin / PIL / cropping EPS
Message-ID: <c32t8r$bc7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hello,
         Can anyone advise me how to crop an EPS image generated by dislin.
I can't figure out how to crop the image before generating it.  Using PIL to
crop the generated image I get an IOError (apparently because I'm using
Windows).  I could use other file formats, but I'm not too keen on the
results I'm getting from using e.g. .tif.  Basically I need to copy
(publication quality) images created in dislin and paste them into word
documents (but not manually).  Cropping after pasting would be an option,
but I haven't (yet) played around with COM enough to know if this is easily
done.  Cheers.

Duncan




From michael at foord.net  Wed Mar 10 03:04:02 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 00:04:02 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>
	<c2i6lh$ono$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403100004.4c49cd3c@posting.google.com>

"Frithiof Andreas Jensen" <frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk> wrote in message news:<c2i6lh$ono$1 at newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
> "Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
> news:8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516 at posting.google.com...
> 
> > Because I *won't* be allowed to install anything other than python
> > scripts on the server...........
> 
> That sounds very odd:
> 
> A Malicious Python script can do just as much evil as a C++ executable only
> in fewer lines of code!
> 
> Maybe it would be easier to get hold of a dedicated server than to work
> around the idiosynchracies(?) of the IT department(?) managing the server?
> The ressource requirements of PSQL + Python are small - almost any junk PC
> could work for a Proof-of-Concept.


I can do a proof of concept on my own computer with a personal server.

The script will be installed on the company intranet though... so I'd
rather just find something that works than learn things I won't be
able to use :-)

Anyway - for my current requirements Kirbybase will be fine and it
will be a gentle introduction into using databases.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From mikmach at wp.pl  Fri Mar  5 06:09:06 2004
From: mikmach at wp.pl (Mikolaj Machowski)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 11:09:06 GMT
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list@python.org>
	<221dd125.0403041853.2c6eb5d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4gmp9.253.mikmach@blacher.nos>

sb scripsit:
> Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list at python.org>...
>> > > I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and
>> > > about editing python with vim.
>>  
>> > Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
>> > vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
>> > docs, books or tutorials)
>> Just do:
>>    :h python
> Thanks, but that is more like a very abbreviated tutorial. Where can I
> can the real documentation? It seems like the python built into vim is
> different. For example, doing

Note: python isn't built _into_ Vim. This is only interface to "real"
python.

m.
-- 
LaTeX + Vim = http://vim-latex.sourceforge.net/
Learn Touch Typing with Vim? Oui. Ja. Yes. Tak:
    http://vim.sourceforge.net/script.php?script_id=461
vim.pl - http://skawina.eu.org/mikolaj


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  5 20:42:45 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 01:42:45 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>
	<0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0@news.teranews.com>
	<c1jh40h7n4hd08gotbolvsho8je5ho1fi4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j99i40dmj2n1r0559hi1veuv48oce9hd8u@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:35 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>In reading someone else's code, I rely on the *syntactic* difference
>between functions and statements to convey possibly different
>*symantics*.  If it says
>print a,b,c
>I know exactly what that statement means.  If it says
>prn(a,b,c)
>I know to look for a definition of 'prn'.

Technically debatable. I doubt that I'd recognise _all_ built-in
functions on sight, for instance, and they need to be looked up in the
Python manual just as statements do. And if you can remember all
built-in functions, then why not memorise all statements?

>The keyword difference is essential, because you *can* say
>print(a,b,c)
>and still be using the built-in print statement (although with a
>slightly different result.)

Yes - that's why I mentioned tuple-related problems.

>I
>prefer the added readability of a more consistent use of parens over
>the convenience of leaving them off.

I'm not sure that 'consistent use' is a reasonable argument with
parens. They are used for a number of things - function calls,
precedence override, tuples (yes, I know the 'it's the commas that
make it a tuple' argument, but that doesn't work for the empty tuple
at least), argument lists in 'def' and inheritance in 'class' are the
most obvious off the top of my head. I'm sure there's another odd bit
of syntax or two where brackets are needed if I put some thought into
it.

A little less 'overloading' of brackets could arguably be a good
thing.

That said, I don't necessarily disagree with you - I'm mostly just
curious what the implications would be.

>Now if we want to talk about getting rid of 'self.' ... :>)

Not sure about that one. I have used C++ a lot, which means that it
does sometimes bug me. But OTOH...

The name 'self' is just a convention. You are free to call it what you
want.

In C++, a very common naming convention suggests using an 'm_' prefix
for all member variable names. I got the habit of using 'f_' instead
(standing for field) a long time ago and it stuck, but that probably
just means I'm wierd. Anyway, this is really just an extension of an
old C convention where parameters get a 'p' or 'p_' prefix, locals get
and 'l' or 'l_' prefix etc.

Changing the underscore to a dot in C++ gives the same result as using
'm' instead of 'self' in Python. OK, semantically you are doing
slightly different things - but in readability terms its much the same
thing. IMO a standard convention is worth more than enough in
readability terms to justify typing 'self' in full, but really what
Python requires is no different to what a lot of experienced C++
programmers tend to do anyway - it's just a clear, explicit indication
of the scope of the identifier you are referencing.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From wweston at att.net  Fri Mar 26 16:20:49 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:20:49 GMT
Subject: python & mysql probelm
In-Reply-To: <a4648036.0403261311.3444ddfe@posting.google.com>
References: <a4648036.0403261311.3444ddfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <R819c.45763$PY1.853391@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

james blair wrote:
> Hi
> I am having a problem executing following query:
> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
> and '%s'"%(id1,id2))
> But say if i have projectid's from 1 to 20 in database & if i give the
> project range 1 to 2 then it gives me the result 1,2,11,12,13,14.....
> When I execute this query in mysql i.e
> select * from projects where projectid between 1 and 2,I get the
> correct result.
> I also tried doing 
> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
> and '%s'"%(int(id1),int(id2))
> but no success
> What should I do??
> Regards,
> James

James,
    As strings 11 is less than 2. Are your fields strings
or ints? If you change them from strings to ints, mysql
will make the translation.
wes



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar  8 23:03:43 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:03:43 -0800
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <c2jfsb$68n$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Firstly,  the code runs in exponential time. Is there any way to
> rewrite it to make it more efficient? It seems that this could be
> formulated as a recursive problem but I can't seem to get at it.

The code does not run in exponential time.  It runs in linear time to 
the number of grid points that exist.  Depending on your input, this can 
vary.

For example, let us say that I have two axes, X, Y (where X and Y are 
lists of grid points).  An optimal algorithm to generate all possible 
pairs will take len(X)*len(Y) time.

For three axes, X, Y, Z, it will take len(X)*len(Y)*len(Z) time.

In general, for k axes and lists of points all of length n, it will take 
O(n^k) time.

That is polynomial, not exponential.

  - Josiah


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Mar 10 10:49:23 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:49:23 GMT
Subject: URGENT: REALLY NEED HELP: Feel Helpless
References: <mailman.161.1078824314.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<58f1830732db3474bb424b82ee7d0168@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <xqxoer4zoqk.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> writes:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:25:05 -0800 (PST), dont bother
> <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >Hey Friends,
> >I am stuck up. I have to finish this class project. I
> >went up trying out python in the only few days I had,
> >and now I feel a bit nervous about . I have to
> >complete my project amidst finals. The only problem I
> >have is in generating feature vectors for spam
> >classification. The rest I can do myself with a C
> >engine.
>     Sorry I do not have any help for you.
>     What class are you taking?  It sounds a little interesting, if
> this is the project.
>     --dang

Ordinarily one wouldn't solve homework here.  But this sounds too
confused for the typical homework case.  It would help if we
understood where you were in the development cycle.

1. Have you done anything like a data model, data flow model, or
definition of the desired feature vectors?  Do you have a set of tests
in mind which would show that you were or were not successful?  All
that is language independent.

2. If you've done "1", what idioms, patterns or data+algorithms have
you considered for implementing the desired vectors?  Have you done a
literature search (or google search) for candidate approaches?  We can
help you understand python-related tradeoffs among implementation
approaches you are considering.

3. If you've done "2", and are partway to implementation, are you just
stuck on something you know how to do in C but can't get working in
Python?  That is something c.l.p can address.  If the class is about
Python per se, we'd tell you where to find answers.  If it is about
algorithms and you happened to choose Python, then we could give more
detailed answers.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 21 01:05:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:05:50 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <Bs-dna9hO5VxscDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<105plk0tk9qk73b@news.supernews.com>
	<r9ednfyHeOOfksDdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<lI87c.28235$P45.10375@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<Bs-dna9hO5VxscDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8sKdnZmshfgircDdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Carl Banks wrote:
> 
>> On an abstract level, this is true.  On a practical level, when
>> someone asks for, or refers to, a language that "compiles to binary"
>> (OP's exact words), we know what he's referring to.
> 
> About two years ago (if I recall), someone else asked for basically
> the same thing.  After some back and forth discussion, it became
> apparent that this person didn't really care about the "compiled"
> part, but actually was only interested in distributing his program
> without needing a separate interpreter installed.  The answers then
> became obvious, but before that there was a lot of misunderstanding
> going on.  Perhaps you had to be there...

For reference, here's the thread (only last November) which I was
probably remembering.  There were similar discussions four years ago,
but there were largely the old "scripting" vs. "non-scripting" debates.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.410.1067915526.702.python-list%40python.org

Note the OP (of that thread, not this one) clarifying in a followup
post that when he referred to, in effect, "compiling to binary", he
did *not* mean what you appear to think is the obvious thing:

  "When I say compiled language, I do mean a language like C++ which is
   transformed into machine code by a compiler.

   I was under the impression that Python had no such compiler, and that
   the end user of my programs would be required to install the Python
   Interpreter. Is that true in most cases?"

Clearly "transformed into machine code" equates to your "compiles to
binary", but the OP was also clearly really interested in avoiding
separate installation of an interpreter, not really in "compiled" code.

And that is probably the last I should say on the matter.

Cheers,
-Peter


From amk at amk.ca  Wed Mar  3 11:14:32 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:14:32 -0600
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
References: <mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403030526.728de57b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YIqdndlGqen1mdvdRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>

On 3 Mar 2004 05:26:02 -0800, 
	Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> I don't think SpamAssassin could have filtered it. The spammers are
> evolving and becoming smarter and smarter, I fear the day they will

It's trivial to block messages with attached executable or .zip files,
though.

--amk


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Mar 16 06:38:07 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:38:07 +0100
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
References: <20040315214043.2814f549.benoit.merouze@epita.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.16.11.38.07.289358@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:40:43 +0000 schrieb ben-:

> I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
> Are there libraries for this ?
> 
> If someone have advices to give, I'm interested !

Hi,

you can save the excel file as xml and then parse
it with this recipe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/192914

This works on unix, too, since you just need an xml parser.

HTH,
 Thomas



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 11:30:04 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:30:04 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16467.14092.495597.119525@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dave> How about if we could just show the reference counts on all of the
    Dave> reloaded objects?  

That wouldn't work for immutable objects which can be shared.  Ints come to
mind, but short strings are interned, some tuples are shared, maybe some
floats, and of course None, True and False are.  You will have to define a
subset of object types to display.

Skip




From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Thu Mar 25 22:27:54 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:27:54 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <7xu10ddxie.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403240124.2a80e784@posting.google.com>
	<4ql8c.42261$ct5.13462@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403250207.41600412@posting.google.com>
	<7xu10ddxie.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <_qN8c.42856$wj2.30269@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> 
>>>I was thinking the same.  How about something like:
>>>
>>>   bigNumber = long(bigNumberString, 256)
>>>
>>>   bigNumberString = bigNumber.tostring()
>>
>>If this is something you want, file a feature request on SF.
> 
> 
> I made a request like that a long while ago.  Guido suggested that it
> be added to the binascii module, if I remember right.  See SF # 465045
> but there may have been another one elsewhere as well.

yup, I'm following your footsteps again! :-).

It looks like people agreed it was a good idea, it just needed a patch. 
  I gave it a shot, we'll see what happens:

#923643
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=923643&group_id=5470&atid=305470

Trevor






From me at privacy.net  Wed Mar 17 08:39:58 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 08:39:58 -0500
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2u10nzj69.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On 16 Mar 2004 23:20:10 -0800,
hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier) wrote:

> With this program I'm working on, I started to recognize that
> not only the functionality should be delegated to modules, but
> that most command line options are private to these modules
> (call 'em plug-ins) as well. This calls for a command line like
> CVS or subverion employ:

> <cmd> <generic options> <subcmd> <subcmd options> <args>

> There are several ways to do it:

[ snip ]

How about having your plugins "register" with your main program
*before* you call optparse?  Part of the registration would be
something like "I (the plugin) accespt these options with/without
these arguments, and here are some callbacks to handle them."
During registration, build up the argument strings/arrays/etc. you
need for optparse from that information.

I've not used optparse, but I've used that scheme with getopt.

If you allow interspersed options, you (your main program) will
have to handle conflicts gracefully (i.e., plugin1 and plugin2
both want an "-a" option).

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar 25 11:21:26 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 08:21:26 -0800
Subject: Split a string by length
References: <mailman.385.1080210038.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403250821.76fd0285@posting.google.com>

[Eyal Lotem] 
> I am not sure this is the best method, but a very
> useful function I've been using is:
> 
> def divide(seq, size):
>     return [seq[i:i+size]  for i in xrange(0,
> len(seq), size)]
> 
> >>> divide('aabbcc', 2)
> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
> 
> (Works on non-strings too)
> 
> I put it in a common library and I reuse it all the
> time.
> I'd love to see it in the standard library, but until
> then.. :)
> 
[Pascal]> > Hello,
> > How can I do to simulate this way:
> > 'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']

I am curious about what applications have a need for a function like
this.  I've seen it in matrix work (like APL's ravel) but nowhere
else.


Raymond Hettinger


From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Mar  3 06:38:51 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:38:51 GMT
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
	<oueksar0tu.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4bgub.4aj.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <oueksar0tu.fsf at andlx-anamika.cisco.com>, Ganesan R wrote:

>> python2.3-pgsql - A Python DB-API 2.0 interface to PostgreSQL v7.x
>> python2.3-popy - module providing access to PostgreSQL from Python2.3
>> python2.3-psycopg - Python 2.3 module for PostgreSQL
>> python2.3-pygresql - PostgreSQL module for Python
> 
> I prefer the first one - it's BSD licensed, actively maintained and
> supported. It's also very compatible with the python SQLite binding which I
> use regularly.

PyGreSQL (the first one), doesn't seem to handle boolean's correctly in
Python 2.3.  Is there a workaround (aside from translating back and forth
 before saving)?  This is the version that ships with Red Hat 9.
 
I use psycopg usually, though I try to test my progs with all of them
(except popy).  It's not too hard to accomadate all of them with just a few
tweaks (usually in the way they handle booleans), since they all use
pyformat.

pyPgSQL does seem to have the best win32 support.

Dave Cook


From stefano at stefanomasini.com  Fri Mar  5 12:19:35 2004
From: stefano at stefanomasini.com (Stefano Masini)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 09:19:35 -0800
Subject: win32com.client.Dispatch returns CLSID different than makepy
Message-ID: <80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to script Adobe InDesign CS from python thru COM, and I'm
having a horrible time to even get started.

I ran makepy, and chose "Adobe InDesign CS Type Library".
It produced a horribly named module inside the gen_py directory, and
when I run gencache.py -d I get this:

Cache is in directory C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py
Adobe InDesign CS Type Library -
{6926C15F-E97E-4b13-8658-A97D8C616945}

Therefore it looks like everything worked so far, and the type library
for InDesign has the Class ID {6926C15F-E97E-4b13-8658-A97D8C616945}

Now, when I write the following python code:

comApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('InDesign.Application')
print repr(comApp)

I get:

<COMObject InDesign.Application>

Which looks like a dynamic dispatch, rather that a static one, as it
should be since I ran makepy on purpose.

Indeed, I manually placed some print statements around the win32com
python source code and I figured out that the name
'InDesign.Application' (I also tried with 'InDesign.Application.CS')
maps to the Class ID {ABD4CBB2-0CFE-11D1-801D-0060B03C02E4}.
This is different from the one produced by makepy, and therefore the
dispatch method can't find anything in cache, and falls back to
dynamic behaviour.

Anybody have a clue on what's going on here?

I thought I ought to write something different that
'InDesign.Application'... so I tried 'Adobe.InDesign.Application',
'Adobe.CS.....' and all sorts of things, but no luck.

Once I chose the 'Adobe InDesign CS Type Library' from makepy, how do
I know what am I supposed to use as the parameter to Dispatch() ?

Thank you very much, I hope somebody helps me out.
Maybe with some useful readings...


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Sat Mar 27 17:39:53 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:39:53 -0800
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
Message-ID: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>

I think it would be cool for my "AutoText" class (see below, hereby GPL'd)
to be able to tell what subclasses inherit from it and instantiate objects
for all of those subclasses to implement a "AutoAll" function.. Any ideas?

Also, are there any comments on my use of "import" in the parent class?

I have all of 3 days experience with OOP and Python, so please bear with me. 

For a short while at least, the code is also available at
http://rafb.net/paste/results/PyX42087.html

Thanks,
Ed Suominen

------------------------------------------------------------------------
class AutoText(HTMLgen.RawText):
    """
    Implements Wiki-like markups of text, returning text in an RawText
object
    to preserve any tags.
    """
    import sre

    def __init__(self, text):
        HTMLgen.RawText.__init__(self, text=text)


class AutoUrl(AutoText):
    """
    Scans string (or string-like object) for urls and replaces them with
    lookalike links. Returns the text in an RawText object to preserve any
    tags. Passes keywords on to href except text and url.
    """
    def __init__(self, text='', **kw):
        text = str(text)
        for i in ['text', 'url']:
            if i in kw: del kw[i]
        while 1:
            m = sre.search('(\s+|\()(http://[a-zA-Z0-9\-\_\.\/\:\?\&]+)',
text)
            if m is None: break
            url = m.group(2).rstrip('.?')
            x = HTMLgen.Href(url=url, text=url, **kw)
            text = text.replace(url, str(x))
        AutoText.__init__(self, text)


class AutoEmphasis(AutoText):
    """
    Scans string (or string-like object) for Wiki-type emphasis markups and
    replaces them with HTML markup. Returns the text in an RawText object to
    preserve any tags.
    """
    def __init__(self, text=''):
        text = str(text)
        for xy in [("""''""", 'Emphasis'), ("""'''""", 'Strong')]:
            while 1:
                m = sre.search('\s+'+xy[0]+'([^\'].+?)'+xy[0]+'\s+',text)
                if m is None: break
                x = eval('HTMLgen.'+xy[1]+'(\''+m.group(1)+'\')')
                text = text.replace(xy[0]+m.group(1)+xy[0], str(x))
        AutoText.__init__(self, text)


From noah at noah.org  Wed Mar 17 14:14:49 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 11:14:49 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c9d82136.0403161102.668feaa3@posting.google.com>
	<c37ugc$llq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403171114.18eb0a6a@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c37ugc$llq$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> >             r += xlate[ord(i)]
> >             r += i
> 
> Perhaps I'm going to have to create a signature and drop information 
> about this in every post to c.l.py, but repeated string additions are 
> slow as hell for any reasonably large lengthed string.  It is much 
> faster to place characters into a list and ''.join() them.

True. Is this better?

    ... body of latin1_to_ascii() ...
    r = []
    for i in unicrap:
        if xlate.has_key(ord(i)):
            r.append (xlate[ord(i)])
        elif ord(i) >= 0x80:
            pass
        else:
            r.append (i)
    return ''.join(r)


Yours,
Noah


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Mar 16 19:23:45 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:23:45 +1100
Subject: Semantics of ==
In-Reply-To: <105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040317002345.GB2788@frobozz>

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 07:07:27PM -0500, John Roth wrote:
> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2 at posting.google.com...
[...]
> >   >>> s
> >   [1, [...]]
> >   >>> w
> >   [1, [1, [...]]]
> >   >>> s==w
> >   True
[...]
> 
> I think the original True is a bug. It's getting confused
> by the recursion.

I don't think it's a bug.  In what sense are they unequal?  Both variables
are a sequence of two elements, the integer 1, and a sequence that's equal
to the outer sequence (i.e. s==s[1] is True, as Python will tell you).
Every element of the sequence s is equal to the corresponding element of the
sequence w, as far as I can see, even though there is infinite recursion.

Python is behaving exactly as I would expect it to.  (Although in the face
of such pathological data structures, I wouldn't mind terribly much if it
didn't...)

-Andrew.




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 22 23:48:14 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:48:14 -0500
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <3ghu50hj5bnq79ro73gk6fbr2llevjvlk0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHGJLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> ...
>> The primary weakness of linear congruential generators (still the
>> most common kind) is dramatically illustrated all over the web;
>> e.g., look at the 3D plot at:
>>
>>    http://www.unf.edu/ccec/cis/CIShtml/RANDUinfo.html

[David MacQuigg]
> This is the first good answer I have heard, and it has changed my
> thinking on this question.

The mathematicians you talked with before may have droned on endlessly (and
probably did) about "the spectral test".  At heart that's just a way of
quantifying "how bad N-dimensional plots can look" -- definitely a case
where *seeing* a bad plot is worth more than a whole book of dimly
understood equations.

The other things they droned on about aren't really different in principle:
if a sequence is truly random, then an unbounded number of observable
effects must follow from that.  Like N-dimensional plots won't have obvious
visual patterns; the i'th element is bigger than the i+1997'th element about
half the time; the rank of random binary NxN matrices derived from the
sequence should follow a certain distribution; ... it's endless.  Not all
are easy to picture, but all are critical to the correct functioning of
*some* app.

> I understand now that the problem is not just something that might be
> found in the tenth decimal place.  The clustering of random points into
> very thin planes could radically affect a simulation depending on the
> distances between those points.

Oh yes!  OTOH, other simulations may not care at all.

> The problem I am working on (statistical simulation of electronic
> circuits) involves a large number of 1D distributions, but with
> carefully controlled correlations between these distributions.  We are
> probably just lucky that the PRNG we are using has not caused a
> noticable problem,

If you're only using one PRNG, you're living too dangerously.  Even
theoretically robust PRNGs can have implementation bugs, so it's best
practice to verify simulations by running them in their entirety with at
least two distinct PRNGs, and of different algebraic structure (for example,
a good LCG (not RANDU <wink>), and a lagged Fibonacci generator -- or the
Twister).  If results agree within expected random noise between two such
runs, that's a powerful check.

> but seeing just one clear example like the above has made me decide
> to be much more cautious in selecting a PRNG.

Or select two, and stop worrying about it.  Even if you've got a poor one,
there's a very effective way to make it better (due to George Marsaglia, a
pioneer in this field):

class Shuffle:
    def __init__(self, base_random, N=128):
        self.base_random = base_random
        self.table = [base_random() for dummy in range(N)]
        self.next = base_random()

    def random(self):
        result = self.next
        index = int(result * len(self.table))
        self.next = self.table[index]
        self.table[index] = self.base_random()
        return result

Pass your base generator to the Shuffle constructor, then use the instance's
random() method.

For example, here's a truly horrid generator:

def horrid():
    while True:
        for i in range(1, 100):
            yield i/100.0

Then

>>> bad_random = horrid().next
>>> for i in range(18):
...     print bad_random(),
0.01 0.02 0.03 0.04 0.05 0.06 0.07 0.08 0.09 0.1 0.11 0.12 0.13
0.14 0.15 0.16 0.17 0.18

So it's as bad as it looks <wink>.  But:

>>> better = Shuffle(horrid().next).random
>>> for i in range(18):
...     print better(),
0.3  0.39 0.5  0.65 0.84 0.09 0.12 0.16 0.21 0.27 0.35 0.45 0.58
0.75 0.97 0.26 0.34 0.44

By eyeball that's much better already, but the lengths of ascending runs are
still too long.  This is because the original generator was *so* poor, and I
chose it in a way to give Shuffle a hard time.  Even so, keep running it,
and Shuffle gets better & better at hiding the extreme regularity in
horrid()'s result sequence.

This technique should be better known:  it's simple, quick, applies to any
generator, and can make even the worst generators usable for many
applications.




From pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 03:01:14 2004
From: pocketsyndrome at yahoo.com (o'seally)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 00:01:14 -0800
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
	<4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <86b5da9a.0403180001.3115ff55@posting.google.com>

i'm Not trying to find a solution for a python problem, i'm in fact
posting a solution to the notorius "ld.so.1: fatal ImportError:
ld.so.1 No such file or directory" error that many people are
complaining about on the newsgroups/internet. when they search on
google for this kind of error, they'll find a link to my
comments/advice/suggestions. i would think that would be very helpful
to them.


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Wed Mar 17 10:43:03 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:43:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20040317154303.76378.qmail@web8311.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote: > In article
> <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195 at posting.google.com>,
>  srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > I would like to know the definition of type safe
> and whether Python
> > can be considered as a type safe language.
> Similarly are Java, C# or
> > C++ type safe?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Srijit
> 
> You tell me what you mean by "type safe", and I'll
> tell you if those 
> languages meet that definition.
> 
> C++ and Java both have the concept of declaring
> variables to hold a 
> certain type of data.  I don't know anything about
> C#, but I'll assume I 
> can lump it into the C++/Java camp.
> 
> Python on the other hand, carries the type
> information along with the 
> data, not with the variable (container) that holds
> the data.
> 
> Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer
> 3 to the string 

So you are suggesting that type-safe means that
variables are necessarily bound to a particular data
type, right? This is the case with "strongly typed"
languages too. So, are you suggesting type-safe =
strong typing. I'm not sure of this.

-Premshree Pillai

> "four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it. 
> Oddly enough, Java 
> (in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at
> automagic 
> polymorphism) will let you add them.  No clue what
> C# does.
> 
> Which is type safe and which isn't?  Well, I think
> we're back to my 
> first statement, otherwise we quickly get into
> playing three blind men 
> and the elephant.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From brett at python.org  Thu Mar 11 14:52:52 2004
From: brett at python.org (Brett C.)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 11:52:52 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.1079035863.7799.clpa-moderators@python.org>

> ...  Martin v. L??wis ...

I think I may finally have figured out what was causing my UTF-8
encoded text files to get mucked up between my machine and the
newsgroup.  I believe it was from OS X's TextEdit misinterpreting the
encoding of the text files and thus opening them in an encoding that
isn't compatible with UTF-8.

The next summary will hopefully not have this issue.  Should find out
next week.

Sorry to Martin and everyone else's names I have butchered over the
past year and a half or so of summaries over this problem.

-Brett



From bob at redivi.com  Tue Mar  2 19:49:23 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:49:23 -0500
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.53.1078262608.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2004030219492350073%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-02 16:23:02 -0500, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> said:

>> On 2004-03-02 15:52:55 -0500, "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> said:
> 
>>> Python does optimize integers that can be represented in 32 bits but
>>> larger than that and unbounded integers are used. For some
>>> applications, it would be better if Python also optimized integers
>>> that require between 32 and 64 bits.
>> 
> 
> Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com> writes:
> 
>> Especially on architectures that have 64 bit integer registers, but
>> are running on an operating system/compiler combination that uses 32
>> bits for int and long (such as the PowerPC 970, on OS X).  I would
>> imagine a similar situation exists for other processor/enivronment
>> combinations.
> 
> Instead of making this is responsibility of the Python code, wouldn't
> this better be a job for psyco?

Perhaps psyco and/or Numeric/Numarray, I guess...  I would imagine that 
the people who would need such speed don't care where it is, so long as 
it's available to them.

> BTW, does psyco run on non-x86 architectures?

Yes, barely.. it uses a written-in-C "microVM" that can do some things 
more efficiently than Python's "monsterVM" :)

-bob



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 30 17:28:03 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:28:03 +0200
Subject: [OT] about OO concepts
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0403282102.632ae427@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<8ef9bea6.0403282102.632ae427@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4069ee6b$0$8912$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
(snip)

> 
> I think the current way how OOP is taught is kind of bad. The lectures
> would start with definition of classes, inheritance, virtual
> functions, etc.
> 
(snip)

> I often don't know how to take it when I see people talking about OOP
> by using definitions like: polymorphism, data hiding, etc. As if these
> definitions were something of utmost importance. 

Well, last time I tried to explain OOP I started with the 'object' 
concept (object = id + state + behavior), then came to the 'class' 
concept, first defined as 'a class is the set of objects that share the 
same behavior'. It's hard to tell because no two brains works the same, 
but it seemed that the person I was trying to teach OO found this 
approach quite clear...

> To me, OOP is just a
> tool for factorizing code, just like using for-loops and using
> functions to factor out repetitive code. Polymorphism, data hiding,
> etc. are all secondary features

Err... I would not say that polymorphism is 'secondary'. It's IMHO one 
of the most important concepts in OO.

(snip)

> A CS professor friend of mine once said: "all problems in CS are
> solved by just one more level of indexing," 

IIRC, the exact quote is : "any problem can be solved by adding a level 
of indirection - except for 'too much levels of indirection'" (now don't 
ask me who said this !-)

Bruno



From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 29 14:19:17 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:19:17 -0700
Subject: import a modified module
References: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
	<mailman.438.1080272287.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5fs8601oef2glokd0i8tbbvso84rrjdku5@4ax.com>
	<c422b1$fo6$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
	<fsa960pr5jc1iqup4cnvb9irg401pepg32@4ax.com>
	<c44qno$jvi$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <r3tg601i2m05tsdqglkka25mqqutph34pu@4ax.com>

On 27 Mar 2004 21:12:24 GMT, mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark
Jackson) wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
>> On 26 Mar 2004 20:03:45 GMT, mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark
>> Jackson) wrote:
>
>> I don't understand why the term "references" is suboptimal.  A module
>> M1 has a namespace, which is detailed in a dictionary M1.__dict__.
>> This dictionary contains _references_ to objects in memory (not the
>> objects themselves).  What terminology would be better?
>
>Binding (of names to objects).  To quote Aahz,
>
>> I'm saving up time for a longer response to Donn, but here's a short
>> one: I'm not at all opposed to using "reference" and indeed I use it all
>> the time.  I just think that using "binding" is preferable in most cases
>> because it gets people out of the pointer mindset.

I wouldn't use the term "pointer" because of the confusion with C
pointers, but there is not *any* term which some students will
initially confuse with other terms they have learned.  ( Some objects
are "bound", some are not.)  And this is _Python_ terminalogy.

For an introductory class in Python, I'm still preferring the term
"reference" in the context I have illustrated above.  It's a general
word without strong contradictory associations.  All names have
references to real objects in memory.  The reference for any object is
revealed by the id() function.

-- Dave



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Mar 20 22:44:26 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 19:44:26 -0800
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403201944.749a5165@posting.google.com>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around some 
> and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find a language 
> similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I been looking in the 
> wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person to want a Pythonish 
> language that can be compiled.  Even a language that just uses Python's basic 
> syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement markers, use indentation to denote 
> code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic 
> and OO features would still be interesting to me (indeed, it would really have 
> to lose most of the dynamic characteristics in order to make it a compilable 
> language, which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).  Is 
> there such a thing?

It depends. Pyrex is certainly a good candidate. If you want a compiled
language with significant indentation and list comprehensions, but which
is not that close to Python overall, you can look at Haskell. As a bonus
you can learn something about functional programming.


             Michele Simionato


From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sun Mar 21 10:19:41 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:19:41 +0100
Subject: Invalid character in os.system call...
References: <mailman.190.1079803619.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <edo0j1-7t3.ln1@valpo.de>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:

> os.system("script2 -f \"####.tif\"")

This looks ugly (its just my personal opinion). Because in Python its
possible to use both ' and " as string markers, you can write:

os.system('script2 -f "####.tif"')

> So what's going on? Is os.system() taking everything after the
> first '#' as a comment, or is it the way the command-line is
> interpreting it?

Yes, just try the following on the shell-prompt: 

$ echo hello # you

Thats the problem of os.system - everything goes thru the shell. 

Mathias


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar 22 09:54:04 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:54:04 -0500
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org><c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3mum7$1hf$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jon Perez" <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3lguo$271vv8$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de...
> In commercial apps for which one might not want to distribute the source
> for, it would be really nice if one can count on just requiring the
end-user
> to install a version of Python (but not extra extension modules anymore)
and
> then distribute the app as a bunch of .pyc's packaged in a .zip file and
> use the PYTHONPATH method you showed.  Just remember to provide a set of
> .pyc's for each version of Python you support.

The issue of hiding source comes up every couple of months.  If there is
not a FAQ entry, there are certainly many past threads.  Note that the dis
modules makes bytecode pretty easy to read, especially with some
experience.

Terry J. Reedy






From fpm at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar  4 10:40:00 2004
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 15:40:00 GMT
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<c24cb3$1oj5g2$1@ID-112871.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c24vco$9ro$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<Xns94A16B9186C04sdfexpertunecom@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <c27ikg$asi$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <Xns94A16B9186C04sdfexpertunecom at 216.168.3.44>,
Scott F  <sdfATexpertuneDOTcom> wrote:
>fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles) wrote in news:c24vco$9ro$1
>@nntp6.u.washington.edu:
>
>> 
>> Now if I could only get vim to highlight paren/bracket/curly-bracket
>> completion as it does when editing shell scripts!
>
>try
>    	:set showmatch
>or
>    	:set sm

Thanks, but that only works for characters as you edit them.  The highlighting
method shows mismatches immediately.  I haven't delved into vim to see how
it's done with shell scripts. 

	-frank
-- 


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 04:47:30 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:47:30 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4056c768$0$284$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
>> I have read it before. I still disagree with the implication that
>> Python is weakly typed just much as I did when I first read it.
>>
>> But you are ignoring my explanation of how Python is strongly typed,
>> and of the distinction between strong-vs-weak and dynamic-vs-static
>> typing, and are instead resorting to argument from authority:
> 
> 
> Right. I should listen to you because you are an authority on Typing but 
> ignore Guido van Rossum.

No. You should listen to Jacek because what he says is obviously correct 
and backed-up by theory and practice. And you should also re-read GvR's 
interview, this time using your brain.

(snip clueless args)

>> What an absurd statement. You are suggesting that Python's type system
>> somehow depends on the relative magnitudes of two people's knowledge.
> 
> When one of them is the creator and guiding light of the language. Yes.

How does the words of GvR in an interview impact the actual Python's 
type system ? I'd like you to explain this to me ?

Bruno



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Mar 24 19:28:09 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:28:09 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<jKKdnVcj5pGpEcLdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
	<du7isgw83n5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<c3t11s$619$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <Xns94B7EF27A772JanC@213.119.4.35>

Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> schreef:

> (Mozilla Team *plans* to incorporate NTLM Authorization in future)

Mozilla has cross-platform NTLM Autorization since version 1.6 beta...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com  Tue Mar 30 22:05:18 2004
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:05:18 -0600
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>
	<ZrGdnR9BRZRIfvTdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <406a3550$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Peter

> ... put the failing code in a function ...

This line of code is already inside some function!
  s = sys.stdin.read(4)
Causes this PyChecker error:
  IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor


Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Olaf





From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 06:54:20 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:54:20 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<slrnc6fvnf.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <v7U9c.59619$cx5.21262@fed1read04>

That was a great read.  Thanks.  I'll have to chew on it.

"Joe Mason" <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message
news:slrnc6fvnf.ha6.joe at gate.notcharles.ca...
> In article <BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010 at fed1read04>, Mark Hahn wrote:
> >> But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
> >> on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
> >
> >
> > I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you mean
the
> > garbage colector?  The mark and sweep just behaves like another app
running
> > at the same time and uses a hunk of the cache to do it's job.  Other
than
> > that I can't think of anything unfriendly to the cache.  Am I missing
> > something in your question?
>
> This, I think:
>
> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2002-08/msg00552.html
>
> Joe




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 26 16:55:53 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:55:53 -0800
Subject: Nodenet availability ?
In-Reply-To: <40645179$1@news.cranfield.ac.uk>
References: <40645179$1@news.cranfield.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c42937$ejr$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Archive.org is your friend:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020603234703/http://matt.kimball.net/nodenet.html


> I am looking for NodeNet (see the announcement below originally posted a
> year or so ago), which would appear to fit my requirements almost exactly.
> f. Unfortunately the link is dead. Is anyone aware if the code announced by
> Matt is available anywhere ? Matt are you there ?
> 
>>...................
> 
> I've released NodeNet 1.0beta2.  Changes from the previous version include:
> 
> *  Both the network editing control and the node drag window manage
>    their own scrollbars if their data is too big to be entirely visible
>    at once.
> *  In the network editing control, you can drag out a selection box
>    to easily select multiple nodes at once.
> *  Rendering in the Eye Candy demo application is faster.
> 
> You can get the latest version, Windows binaries and online documentation
> at http://matt.kimball.net/nodenet.html
> 


From godoy at ieee.org  Wed Mar 31 19:50:39 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:50:39 -0300
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<mMSdnZyBVPKoW_fdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <or6sj1-8eh.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Qua 31 Mar 2004 10:23, Peter Hansen wrote:

> francois lepoutre wrote:
> 
>> As was mentioned in a recent thread python is definitively
>> the tool for applications with complex code and no or little UI.
>> For UI-intense apps, win32 C# and delphi are still hard to beat
> 
> Do you say this because of the design tools, or for some
> other reason?

One thing my partner always complain about is the lack of database classes
and navigators such as the ones available in Delphi. Specially the ones
that allow you going forward and back in a table with the records without
having to code that by hand. And no, ODBC isn't a good solution according
to him due to several variations of ODBC libraries and changes between
versions. 

I don't know Delphi... 

-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From dev-python at smartology.nl  Thu Mar 25 11:29:01 2004
From: dev-python at smartology.nl (Remy C. Cool)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 08:29:01 -0800
Subject: Import 'lookup' problem with path_hooks
Message-ID: <210ea865.0403250829.30d46350@posting.google.com>

Hello,

My application uses a remote import scheme using the sys.path_hooks
solution as explained in PEP302
(http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0302.html)

The importer works fine for packages, modules, modules in packages and
packages in packages, but there's a problem when a module in a package
want's to import a module from the same package.

Example:

package spam contains the modules ham and eggs.

__init__.py of spam contains: 
import ham 
import eggs

ham contains:
import eggs

When I import the package spam locally, everything goes as planned,
but the remote importer wants to import eggs from the root and doesn't
even 'look' in the 'current' package path as oposed to the standard
import method.

Changing the import statement in ham to import spam.eggs works for
this case, but that isn't useable when spam is a package in another
package and including all base packages in the import statement isn't
doable because it prevents the packages to be developed and tested as
a single standalone unit.

This is the remote importer code:

class RemoteImporter:
 
    def __init__(self, path):
	# decl
	self.path = None

        itom = path.split('.')[0]
        if not hasattr(self, 'pathlist'):
            raise ImportError
        self.pathlist.append('RemoteImporter')
        if itom not in self.pathlist:
            raise ImportError

    def find_module(self, fullname, path=None):
        params = {}
        params['fullname'] = fullname
        params['load']     = True
        try:
            # remote request		
            result = remoteRequest(params)
        except:
            return None
        if result:
            if result['code']:
                self.code = result['code']
                self.path = result['path']
                Cache.Add(self.path,fullname,result['extension'],self.code)
                return self
            else:
                return None

    def load_module(self, fullname):
        
        code,type = Cache.Get(self.path,fullname)
        mod = imp.new_module(fullname)
        sys.modules[fullname] = mod
        mod.__file__   = "<%s>" % self.__class__.__name__
        mod.__loader__ = self
        mod.__path__   = self.path

        if type == imp.PY_COMPILED:
            try:
                code = marshal.loads(code)
            except LoadError, (errCode, errString):
                pass
            except:
                pass
        elif type == imp.PY_SOURCE:
            pass
        else:
            raise ImportError
        try:
            exec code in mod.__dict__
        except:
            raise ImportError
        return mod

Any pointers?

< Remy >


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Mar 25 03:29:18 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 00:29:18 -0800
Subject: declaring multimethods [Was: Re: PEP 318]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403250029.45888ea9@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Still, I'd like to follow this thread just a little further, mostly just to
> see where it goes.  <snip>

As Ville Vainio pointed out in another thread, maybe the source of
the confusion is that we have in mind CLOS-style multimethods, 
implemented as generic functions *outside* classes.
Here is an example, taken from the Goops manual,

http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/docs/goops/Methods.html#Methods

(define-method (+ (x <string>) (y <string>))
  (string-append x y))

(+ 1 2) --> 3
(+ "abc" "de") --> "abcde"

In Guile "+" is a generic function and the define-method macro just
adds another method to the list of methods known by "+". 
Yes, there is a little ambiguity since typically "def" means "define"
and not "add to the definition", but since practicality beats purity ...


     Michele


From bo at systemhouse.dk  Sat Mar  6 23:14:20 2004
From: bo at systemhouse.dk (Bo Jacobsen)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:14:20 +0100
Subject: New to Python; what about #include, extern and function prototypes
Message-ID: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>

I'm new to Python, and it looks as if there is no
C like "#include and extern" or function protypes. No shell like ".
../filename"
is this correct ?.

Is there any way to implement them ?

PS: For me, "import module" is no replacement for include.



Bo Jacobsen




From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar  1 08:53:53 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 13:53:53 GMT
Subject: pyAlbum
References: <mailman.3.1078050548.21439.python-list@python.org>
	<c1tgot$e2$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns949F8D5BFFC32duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in 
news:c1tgot$e2$1 at news.service.uci.edu:

> 
> Some fairly rudimentary fact-checking would have prevented the 
> errors/oversights listed above.

A few more:

Slide 17: 'Tuples are enclosed in parentheses'

The commas make the tuple, not the parentheses. The first example could 
equally be written:

   myTuple = 1, 4, 5

Parentheses are only required to remove ambiguity (or for empty tuples).

Slide 21, it is worth pointing out the weakness of '{', '}' which is that 
the parenthese you think match up by looking at the block structure aren't 
necessarily the ones that do match: as in the example given where the last 
'}' actually closes the else block.

The 'if' statement shows the full range if..elif..else. It would be 
consistent to mention the else clause on while and for loops also.


From kmmcdonald at wisc.edu  Wed Mar 24 19:49:57 2004
From: kmmcdonald at wisc.edu (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:49:57 GMT
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their parameters?
Message-ID: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>

For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
and then find out the following information about functions and
methods defined within it:

1) Parameter names and order
2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
parameter list.

Reading documentation about function objects, the only
relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
default param values, which is not useful to me.

I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
I would strongly prefer a simpler way. I'd have thought that,
like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
would also be stored with function objects.

Thanks,
Ken


From sdobrev at sistechnology.com  Thu Mar 18 15:50:38 2004
From: sdobrev at sistechnology.com (svilen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:50:38 +0000
Subject: automatic static types (metaclass), attribute-order extraction =
 python instead of XML-likes - and some RequestsForEnhancements
Message-ID: <405A0B9E.9060002@sistechnology.com>

hello again.

i'm now into using python instead of another language(s) for 
describing structures of data, including names, structure, 
type-checks, conversions, value-validations, metadata etc. And i have 
things to offer, and to request.
And a lot of ideas, but who needs them....


here's an example (from type_struct.py):
[this is still in progress. it would be used for direct generating of 
(ordered) byte structures as well. And user interface forms...]

> from statictype2 import StaticTyper, StaticType
 >
> class Record( StaticTyper) :
>     def _validator_ID( v):
>         if v<=0: raise ValueError, 'value must be positive int, not %r' % v
>         return v
>     def _validator_Date( v):
>         if isinstance( v, tuple) and len(v)==2:
>             v = '.'.join([ str(x) for x in v] )
>         elif not isinstance( v, str):
>             raise TypeError, 'expect str or tuple( str,str), not %r of type %s' % (v,type(v))
>         return v
> 
>     ID   = StaticType( int, auto_convert=True, validator=_validator_ID )
>     Date = StaticType( None, validator= _validator_Date)
>     Count= StaticType( int)
>     Key  = StaticType( str, default_value= 'empty/key/used')
> 
> class Input_Record( Record):
>     Checksum    = Tchecksum
> 
> class Output_Head( StaticTyper):
>     timestamp = StaticType( str, default_value= 'none')
> 
> class Output_Record( Output_Head, Record):
>     pass

> ....

> r = Input_Record()
> r.ID = '357'
> r.Date = (10,'03')
> r.Count = 2

 > ....

here's output of `python2.3 type_struct.py`:
<module '__main__' from 'test_struct.py'>:
     - order:
       ['Tchecksum', 'r', 'a', 'v']
     <class '__main__.Record'>:
        - order:
          ['ID', 'Date', 'Count', 'Key']
        - flattened order:
          ID     = <property object at 0x401795a4>
          Date   = <property object at 0x4017993c>
          Count  = <property object at 0x40179554>
          Key    = <property object at 0x401799b4>
     <class '__main__.Input_Record'>:
        - order:
          ['Checksum']
        - flattened order:
          ID     = <property object at 0x401795a4>
          Date   = <property object at 0x4017993c>
          Count  = <property object at 0x40179554>
          Key    = <property object at 0x401799b4>
          Checksum       = <property object at 0x40179694>
     <class '__main__.Output_Head'>:
        - order:
          ['timestamp']
        - flattened order:
          timestamp      = <property object at 0x40179be4>
     <class '__main__.Output_Record'>:
        - order:
          []
        - flattened order:
          timestamp      = <property object at 0x40179be4>
          ID     = <property object at 0x401795a4>
          Date   = <property object at 0x4017993c>
          Count  = <property object at 0x40179554>
          Key    = <property object at 0x401799b4>

['ID', 'Date', 'Count', 'Key', 'Checksum']
<__main__.Input_Record object at 0x40433bec>
ID      357
Date    10.03
Count   2
Key     empty/key/used
Checksum        52bf113125e445e072387820ccd0a983

==================

static_type1 is if using const BaseTypes as templates for actual classes.
static_type2 is more powerful as stuff goes direct in the actual class.
you can run each (execpt the statictype_base), they have more tests 
and examples in them.

each set/get for these fields in the instances are captured as 
properties.

StaticType's supports exact type checks and automatic conversion, 
default_value lazy setting, and a validator than can add value checks 
and/or replace type/auto_conv if needed. Probably more can be added, 
when needed (e.g. things about representation / formatting, naming, UI 
etc)

there's also a method .test_validator() to test your validators 
_before_ using them as that can be nasty.

------
you don't need anything around assignemt_order.py unless u need the 
order of the fields to follow the order they are written in the python 
file (Which is the best place IMO. WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You 
Get.)

my previous post about extracting the order of assignments in 
module/class namespaces didn't get much response, well, i wrote the 
damned thing.

This assignment_order.py hack (parsing the source again to get the 
order) would not be needed IF any of the following was available:
  - order of variable assignments in class namespace was given to the 
__metaclass__, as separate argument or if the dict argument is not 
dict-mapping but iterable of (key,value) tuples, it is so easy to turn 
it into dictionary - just dict(iterable)
  - at very low-level, internal frame object's f_locals() could return 
iterable of key,value tuples instead of plain dict.

The order is there in the execution frame, it just not reachable from 
python.

-------
thes can go well as examples:
the static_types could go with Demo/newmetaclass/
the assignement_order could go with Demo/parser/

==============================================================================

now, about the requests. i want to see python more symmetrical and 
consistent. this way it could be advertised/marketed easier to places 
with serious portability AND maintainability thinking, over other 
pure-procedural languages. Is anyone is interested in that?

- i want the documentation to be fully interlinked (in current 
hierarchy) and to have another alternative hierarchy - from 
usage-point of view - if i say list, ALL about lists should be there, 
and not separated in 3+ different places, so either a lot bookmarks 
are to be kept, or 10+ clicks to get the next piece of info. Same goes 
for most data/execution things. it can be done as simple 
links-only-layer - i dont mind. Probably data-model and execution 
model are best to follow as template.

  - order of variable assignments in class namespace to be 
offered/passed to the metaclass, as separate argument or the (now 
dict) namespace argument to be properly ordered iterable (moving the 
dict creation from C into python metaclass - well, if any. 
type(name,bases,dictiterable) can still do it in C). Order can be 
safely ignored if not needed.

- i want somehow to turn the { MY order of dict values here } syntax 
into as-is-ordered thing! Could be even with some pragma switch that 
would create my dictOrder (or some builtin one) instead of internal 
hashed mapping! This is equivalent to above, but for plain value dicts 
(and not the attribute namespaces, represented as dicts). Function 
keyword args can be another thing to keep order of - if required. (a 
sort of execution-namespace control pragma)

- the notion of iterators/ generators, and notion of interfaces are so 
powerful but so poorly advertised - and used. Now there is itertools - 
PERFECT! but i have to import it while waster things like map() are 
still sitting at plain view - hence - from lamer's point of view - 
easier to use.

- what about try: finally: over generators? PEP288. gee, 50 lines of 
iterator class instead of 5 with yield just becasue i _have_ to close 
a file...

- all builtin functions that do not add value to the language as 
language should move into separate module (e.g. map, zip, sum etc... 
vs callable, isinstance, builtin type-constructors) and not be so 
over-emphasized.

- all interfaces (not types!) - e.g. containers (__get/set/delitem) - 
should be named 'interfaces' - now this is vaguely called 'customization'.

- how do i check if x is iterable?

- (i see this goes in python2.4, PEP289) The perfect idea of in-place 
generators - which is now used for filling lists and maybe dicts in 
future, should be allowed everywhere where iterables can be. e.g. i want
	my_method_with_iterator( (k, 2*k, keys[k]) for k in [a,b,c] )
to work without need of intermediate list/dict/whatever.

- IMO most funcs now needing a list or dict should be happy with 
proper iterable. ( Eventualy funcs needing only iterable over single 
values may have *args instead, and for key-balue tuples **kargs 
instead. but this isnt that important.)

- i would like to be able to control somehow what constructors are 
available for example to eval() - so i can patch them (operator *) - 
so things like
  eval( '[ 1,2,3 ] * 500000000')
or
  eval( ' "abcdef" * 500000000')
could not bomb the machine, and give syntax error or else.
which means safer if not safe expressions. (again a sort of 
execution-namespace control)

- i want the list head/tail notation:
   a, b, *c = somelisthere
   apart of all else, it helps future maintenance and readability of 
the program, and this IS important if python is to be used for serios 
things in serios places. ah, i might like simmetrical thing for dicts 
but you will not like it:
   'a':var1, 'b':var2, **rest = dictionaryhere

- uh there were more, but i keep forgetting...

if i can help to do something of these or others, or you want ideas of 
how/when/why something can be implemented for the python, call ... 
there's plenty of experience in a lot of languages and languages in 
general, as well human-machine related things, even psychology. And i 
DO want to support and make better the good thing what python is.

just in case this newserver of mine dies (and it does often), do CC to 
me mail.

[btw, anyone interested in very thin framework for UI-via-html-forms?
all is in python, even the form description, html etc.
it's 75%-done, with most things showable.
]

ciao
svilenD

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From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 15 18:06:29 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:06:29 -0600
Subject: py2exe and urllib(2) errors
References: <mailman.6.1079387105.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nPWdnfVXzoFpq8vdRVn-hg@comcast.com>

(From the py2exe homepage:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)
..if your exe-file reports errors like LookupError: no codec search
functions registered: can't find encoding or LookupError: unknown encoding,
you should advise py2exe to include this package with the '--packages
encodings' command line option.

Google turns up information very quickly.

Larry Bates


"Mike Zupan" <mike at zcentric.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6.1079387105.742.python-list at python.org...
I had some problems with urllib and py2exe under pyton2.3. I works fine
until i try to use the exe file.

Here is the error

Error: 1
LookupError Exception in Tk callback
  Function: <bound method MainWindow.selectDir of <__main__.MainWindow
instance
at 0x00DF4058>> (type: <type 'instancemethod'>)
  Args: ()
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "Pmw.pyc", line 1784, in __call__
    None
  File "<string>", line 270, in selectDir
    None
  File "<string>", line 361, in grabAlbumDirs
    None
  File "<string>", line 431, in addAlbumData
    None
  File "<string>", line 469, in grabImage
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 129, in urlopen
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 326, in open
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 306, in _call_chain
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 901, in http_open
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 884, in do_open
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 712, in endheaders
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 597, in _send_output
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 564, in send
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 532, in connect
    None
LookupError: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding


Here is the section of code that produces the error

urllib.urlretrieve(imageURL, saveFile)

imageURL and saveFile are correct


Here is my setup.py file

# setup.py
from distutils.core import setup

import py2exe

setup(
    scripts=["art.py"]
)


and here is my batch file

c:\python23\python setup.py py2exe -pPIL --packages=encodings


Thanks
Mike






From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 12:17:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:17:47 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:

> I just wrote the following simple script:
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> #!/software/python/python2.2.2/linux/bin/python
> import time
> startTime = time.time()
> from wxPython.wx import *
> print "Time:",time.time()-startTime
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> On running multiple times, I get the following outputs:
> 
> Time: 4.60863804817
> Time: 3.26165890694
> Time: 3.24744296074
> Time: 3.26767706871
> Time: 3.25304102898

Running that repeatedly (sorry, can't reboot conveniently
right now, so can't get the first time) it takes 0.125 s
on my machine.

-Peter


From me at privacy.net  Thu Mar  4 16:12:48 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 16:12:48 -0500
Subject: maximum element?
References: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <m2brncco4v.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:52:50 +0100,
Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote:

> What is the 'most pythonic' way of searching the largest element in a
> list/tuple?

> My 'standard' idea is:

> max = list[0]   # or -infinity, or whatever...
> for i in list:
>      if i > max:
>          max = i

> While this is ok, I somehow 'feel' there could be a more concise
> solution... :)

How about max( list )?

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From garryknight at gmx.net  Sun Mar 28 18:43:02 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:43:02 +0100
Subject: Python as Glue Language
References: <40674ad7$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1080517382.60789.0@despina.uk.clara.net>

In message <40674ad7$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au>, Maurice LING wrote:

>  From the documentations, it did mention that python is a good glue
> language. What does it really means by "glue language"?

The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (27 SEP 03) [foldoc]

glue language
        <language> Any language, usually a scripting language, used
        to write glue to integrate tools and other programs to solve
        some problem.
        (1999-02-22)

glue
        <jargon> A generic term for any interface logic or protocol
        that connects two component blocks.  For example, Blue Glue
        is IBM's SNA protocol, and hardware designers call anything
        used to connect large VLSI's or circuit blocks "glue logic".
        (1999-02-22)

> Does it means interfacing between modules of different languages?

Interfacing between anything that takes an input and yields an output,
including scripts written in other languages, shell commands, executables,
etc.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar 29 08:53:02 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:53:02 -0600
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6du9d.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.11.1080489481.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc6du9d.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <20040329135302.GA31847@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Mar 28, 2004 at 04:40:03PM +0000, Joe Mason wrote:
> In article <mailman.11.1080489481.20120.python-list at python.org>, Jeff Epler wrote:
> >     def __call__(
> > __metaclass__ = PrototypeMeta
> > 
> > class Thing:
> 
> You're missing most of call() there.

whoops .. that was from the moment when I thought "I'd better do
something about calling a prototype" .. just remove it.

> 
> BTW, I've got three pure-python solutions now (four when this one's
> fixed) but it turns out they all suffer from a flaw:
> 
> >>> class TestProto: l = []
> ... 
> >>> class Test2(TestProto): pass
> ... 
> >>> TestProto.l
> []
> >>> Test2.l
> []
> >>> Test2.l.append(0)
> >>> Test2.l
> [0]
> >>> TestProto.l
> [0]
> 
> We really need copy-on-write lists and dicts - and large objects in
> general - for this to work.

Can't you just follow the Python rule for classes with a little
difference?
* if you want some data to be shared by reference among the Prototype
  and all its children, declare it at 'prototype' ('class') scope
* if you don't, create it in __init__

Jeff



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 05:47:38 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:47:38 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <7de2e74a623ae9f3ff3fe9ae4e1ec2b4@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <20040315104738.14272.qmail@web8312.mail.in.yahoo.com>

>>I do not think forced *declaration* is important,
>>except perhaps in
>>C/++/#/Java, Pascal, Ada, etc.  

Why the discrimination? Considering programming
languages in general, what do you have to say with
forced declaration?

I don't think the discrimination is justified
considering that all of them belong to the
procedural/OOP (read same) paradigm.


=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From shimbun at gmx.de  Sun Mar 14 18:48:14 2004
From: shimbun at gmx.de (Nai Namae)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:48:14 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions
References: <c32b2j$222k3a$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u9tei1-qqo.ln1@valpo.de>
	<c32jtn$23i7d1$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<2ouei1-u2q.ln1@valpo.de>
	<c32l9s$2317to$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c32qvv$rkn$06$1@news.t-online.com>

a magic combination of both would be the command:

sudo su -

:)

make a shell "script" out of it:

#!/bin/bash
sudo su -

call it "root", make it executable to everyone, put it in /usr/local/bin or
any other path in $PATH, add all users on your system to /etc/sudoers...

and just run your new "root" command and enjoy.. ok, of course you should
not do so!
by using "root" you can now have a root shell withouth having to type a
password every time :/

Luca T. wrote:

> Mathias Waack wrote:
> 
>> Please read su(1) until you find the answer. Or use the right group;)
> 
> Damn, you are right, thanx... now i wonder why sudo exists though... oh
> well.
> 
> Bye,
>    Luca



From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Mar 24 02:47:25 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:47:25 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Windows Media Player 9 with win32com.client.Dispatch?
In-Reply-To: <041701c41117$b3cdb760$6500a8c0@YODA>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403231110260.20217@sampo.csc.fi>
	<041701c41117$b3cdb760$6500a8c0@YODA>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403240945220.30730@sampo.csc.fi>

> Here's the class, I'm not sure how helpful it is since it relies on some
> wxPython-specific stuff, but...

Thanks Dave! wxPython is surely a problem here; I'm stuck using Tkinter.
Do you know how well those two GUI toolkits interoperate?

Cheers,

Mickel



From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 31 01:27:21 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:27:21 +1200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.134.1080673596.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<20040330132021.GD27344@nl.linux.org>
	<mailman.134.1080673596.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4doc9$2ffmst$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael wrote:
> If you're making a short response to the entire message it's okay to top 
> post.

I wouldn't consider it appropriate even then. In that situation
I usually pick some distinctive sentence from the original and
quote that -- just to remind people of the context, not to
reproduce it in toto.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From fey at parsytec.de  Fri Mar 12 11:30:06 2004
From: fey at parsytec.de (Sebastian Fey)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 16:30:06 GMT
Subject: pyXML beginner questions
Message-ID: <c2soid$191t46$1@ID-190842.news.uni-berlin.de>



hi, 

id like to do the following: 

(1) open a .xml, change something and save it. 
problem is: how to save/serialize? 
i tried xml.dom.ext.Print, but this resolves all entities and serializes 
the xml with resolved entities. (see example below)

 

(2) id also like to load external parsed entities referenced in the xml. 
MSXML provides an extension(?) to DOM which returns the uri to an 
entityReference-NODE. 
any similar in pyXML.  actually, is nodetype entityReference implemented 
in pyXML. i always get the nodeType of the resolved entity, ie 3
(NODE_TEXT) with a internal unparsed entity.


############# 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> 
<!DOCTYPE xbel [ 
        <!ENTITY intTxt 'GIGI'> 
        <!ENTITY intMarkup '<entIntern>text</entIntern>'> 
        <!ENTITY extParsed SYSTEM "ent.xml"> 
]> 
<root> 
        <text>&intTxt;</text> 
        &intMarkup; 
        &extParsed; 
</root> 
############ 

becomes: 

############# 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> 
<root> 
        <text>some text</text> 
        <entIntern>text</entIntern>' 
        <entIntern>text</entIntern>' 
</root> 
############# 



thx, 
        Sebastian 



 


From john.burton at jbmail.com  Sat Mar 20 05:54:53 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:54:53 +0000
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
Message-ID: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

I wrote a python program on windows which needs to listen for
connections on a low numbered port which works fine on windows but on
linux you need to be *root* in order to listen for connections on port
numbers below 1024.

I really don't want to run my program as root because that would give it
unnecessary access to the whole of the system.

Has anyone got any suggestion on the best way to allow my program to
listen on those socket without runing as root when doing anything else?
Ideally I want this to be portable so the same program still runs on
windows.


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Mar 13 02:09:25 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:09:25 -0000
Subject: How to stop a listening socket.accept()?
References: <mailman.343.1079154227.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1079161795.850268@yasure>

Quoth "kvdvm" <kvdvm at yahoo.com>:
| It seems that the accept() method acts as stubborn as a mule to get a 
| connection request even if I close it in another thread.
|
| Any idea will be deeply appreciated.

Do you mean, the thread continues to block in accept?  In this
case, you can use select with a timeout, or maybe your second
thread could just connect and send a special shut down message.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From sigurd at 12move.de  Fri Mar 19 14:19:52 2004
From: sigurd at 12move.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?Karl_Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:19:52 +0100
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
Message-ID: <m33c84r6rn.fsf@hamster.pflaesterer.de>

On 19 Mar 2004, Darabos Daniel <- cyhawk at sch.bme.hu wrote:

>>>> def p( x ):
> ...     print x
> ...
>>>> l = []
>>>> for i in range( 5 ):
> ...     l.append( lambda: p( i ) )
> ...
>>>> for k in l:
> ...     k()
> ...
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 4

> And it surprised me a little. I was expecting to see 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

The `i' in your code is bound to the global value of `i' which is 4.

> After some brainwork I now kind of understand what happens and I even
> found a solution like this:

>>>> def mylambda( fn, *args ):
> ...     return lambda: apply( fn, args )
[...]

> But I still feel a bit unsatisfied. Do you have some advice for me?

You have to bind the value of `i' in the lambda form; you did that with
your function definition but it can be done a bit simpler:

>>> funs = [lambda i=i: sys.stdout.write(str(i)+"\n") for i in range(4)]
>>> for f in funs:
...     f()
... 
0
1
2
3
>>>  

With the `i=i' the `i' in the lambda got bound.


   KP

-- 
      And has thou slain the Jabberwock?
          Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
      O frabjous day!  Callooh!  Callay!'
          He chortled in his joy.   "Lewis Carroll" "Jabberwocky"


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 28 11:59:03 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:59:03 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
Message-ID: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>

Here's a breakdown of most of the syntax discussed re: PEP318 using an
example from python-dev. There are probably several more (I've added [10]).
The example applies both function decoration and annotation.


# [1] .. [3], competing ways to say the same thing

# [1]
def foo(self) [attrs(spark_rule="DOC := HEAD BODY FOOT",
        url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"),
        publish_to_web]:
        "doc string"
        body

# [2]
def foo[attrs(spark_rule="DOC := HEAD BODY FOOT",
        url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"),
        publish_to_web](self):
        "doc string"
        body

# [3]
def [attrs(spark_rule="DOC := HEAD BODY FOOT",
        url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"),
        publish_to_web] foo(self):
        "doc string"
        body


# [4] now once with 'as' - sub in your 'favourite': "using", "with", ...
def foo(self)  as attrs(spark_rule="DOC := HEAD BODY FOOT", \
        url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"), \
        publish_to_web:
        "doc string"
        body


# [5] function attribute dictionary
def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
        {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
         url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"}
        "doc string"
        body


# [6]  @function_attribute = ...
def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
        @spark_rule="DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
        @url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
        "doc string"
        body


# [7] :function_attribute:...
def foo(self)[publish_to_web]:
        :spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
        :url:"/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
        "doc string"
        body



# [8] special purpose blocks - several variations proposed
with this:
        spark_rule = "DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT"
        url = "/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
using:
        publish_to_web
def foo(self):
        "doc string"
        body


# [9] some form of doc string abuse - one syntax option ...
def foo(self):
       """doc string
           @:
                    foo.spark_rule="DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT",
                    foo.url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory")
                    foo = publish_to_web(foo)
       """
       body





# [10] metaclass approach - only works inside classes
decorate("foo", publish_to_web,
        spark_rule="DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT",
        url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory")

def foo(self):
        "doc string"
        body



# [11] current method
def foo(self):
       "doc string"
       very
       long
       body
       ....
foo.spark_rule = "DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT",
foo.url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory")
foo = publish_to_web(foo)





Personally, I find all of this very off-putting. I find none of these
proposals clean, clear, and/or readable, except perhaps [11] (which started
the whole mess in the first place). I tend to agree with the following,
somewhat out of context, remark:


"""
If only we could learn from others' mistakes:

Finally, in designing Self, we have learned one lesson by making mistakes:
examples can persuade the designer to include additional features which
later turn out to produce incomprehensible behavior in unforeseen
circumstances. This might be called the language designer's trap.
Minimalism, simplicity and consistency are better guides. They benefit every
programmer, not just the ones who need advanced features. We suspect that
many of today's object-oriented languages could profit by dropping features.

Programming as an Experience: The Inspiration for Self
"""
Isaac Gouy, http://lambda.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$11653




From marco at bubke.de  Tue Mar 23 09:56:39 2004
From: marco at bubke.de (Marco Bubke)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:56:39 +0100
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<huvv505om6eq8scvisrhsmul8b14mht5jg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3pj77$r8n$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> On 22 Mar 2004 16:43:18 -0800, Paul Rubin
> <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>DH <no at sp.am> writes:
>>> Possible future Python example that uses "as" differently:
>>>
>>> def foo(x as int, y as float) as int:
>>>     "this function returns an integer, and takes an int & float params"
>>
>>I think I'd rather use colons for that, like Pascal does, e.g.
>>
>>  def foo:int (x: int, y: float)
>>
>>hmm, the foo:int doesn't look too good.
> 
> In Ada, the type of a function return value is specified using an
> explicit keyword ('returns' IIRC). I don't see the need for a unique
> keyword just for that, but how about...
> 
> def foo (x: int, y: float) return int [decorators] :
> def foo (x: int, y: float) yield  int [decorators] :


I like :
def foo(x=42:int, y=3.14:float) [return(string)]:


def foo[return(string)](x=42:int, y=3.14:float):

looks strange to me. Its very unreadable. Its maybe the first time I really
disagree with a Idea of Guido. :-)



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Mar 25 10:14:36 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 07:14:36 -0800
Subject: State of Python scripting on Mac OS X?
References: <BC8786FC.F36%franga@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0403250714.33ba4c32@posting.google.com>

Francis Avila <franga at shentel.net> wrote in message 
news:<BC8786FC.F36%franga at shentel.net>...


> Python needs an OSA scripting component to be an OSA-compliant language. 
> I'm not entirely clear on what that means, though, 

Neither are Apple.:p The term "OSA" is commonly used to refer to both
the IAC-related Carbon APIs as a whole and to the specific API used to
create scripting language components.

You're correct that MacPython isn't OSA-compliant, but this isn't that
a big deal. Currently, the only real benefit of OSA support [1] would
be the ability to edit Python scripts in OSA-savvy editors such as
Script Editor, Smile and Script Debugger. OSA support isn't needed to
control applications, however - for this you use the Apple Event
Manager.

MacPython provides a low-level bridge to the AEM as part of its Carbon
API wrappers. The current distribution (2.3.x) also includes a number
of modules that wrap this bridge in a higher-level API: aepack,
aetools, aetypes and gensuitemodule. These modules will shortly be
deprecated in favour of the new appscript module [2], which provides a
much better high-level API. For now, you can get appscript from my
site:

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/

Note that the current distribution is source code-based and requires
distutils and the gcc compiler to build it. (A copy of gcc is included
with Apple's Developer Tools if you don't already have it.)

For general discussion of this topic, the PythonMac SIG list is the
best place to be. Or mail me directly if you've any specific questions
on appscript.

HTH

has

--

[1] OSA support is also needed for 'attachability', the ability to
attach scripts to application menus, objects, etc.; terrific stuff for
doing event-driven automation. Unfortunately, the Cocoa Scripting API
used in Cocoa apps currently only supports attachability for
AppleScripts - not much use to anyone else. Feel free to submit a
feature request to Apple on this.

[2] Previously named 'AppScripting'; renamed to 'appscript' as of
v0.4.0. Make sure you get the latest version (v0.4.6) as a lot has
changed since.


From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Thu Mar 25 20:41:19 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:41:19 -0800
Subject: Creating Python Modules
References: <mailman.415.1080233828.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c401jc$2d59ub$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Adam T. Gautier wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I am trying to create a python module for a series of class files
> that because of their size I have divided into multiple files.
> 
> class Foo --> foo.py
> class Boo --> boo.py
> 
> I have created a setup.py where I have for the "py_modules=['foo',
> 'boo']".  when I run "%>./setup.py install" it copies all *.py and
> *.pyc to /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages.
> 
> When I goto use the module I have to use:
> 
> import foo
> import boo
> 
> I would like if anyone could help me to be able to:
> 1.)  Get the *.py and *.pyc (foo and boo) generated with the
> install to install to "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mymodule".

I think you want to include the "packages" option or the
"package_dir" option in your setup.py.

See section "3.1 Listing whole packages" in "Distributing Python
Modules" at:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/dist.html


Dave

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  6 11:45:06 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:45:06 -0500
Subject: win32com.client.Dispatch returns CLSID different than makepy
In-Reply-To: <80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951@posting.google.com>
References: <80ef91b8.0403050919.2900a951@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Gen2c.16985$JZ6.592577@news20.bellglobal.com>

This sounds like a problem I ran into that I was never able to figure
out either.  Mark Hammond says there is nothing that can be done about
it, but if you jump through some manual hoops you may be able to get it
to work.

For more info, Google for "solidworks python win32com" in the Google
"groups", and click the first hit you get.  Or, if you don't mind long 
URL's:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=solidworks+python+win32com&sa=N&tab=wg

HTH.
Markus

Stefano Masini wrote:
> I'm trying to script Adobe InDesign CS from python thru COM, and I'm 
> having a horrible time to even get started.
> 
> I ran makepy, and chose "Adobe InDesign CS Type Library". It produced
> a horribly named module inside the gen_py directory, and when I run
> gencache.py -d I get this:
> 
> Cache is in directory C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py 
> Adobe InDesign CS Type Library - 
> {6926C15F-E97E-4b13-8658-A97D8C616945}
> 
> Therefore it looks like everything worked so far, and the type
> library for InDesign has the Class ID
> {6926C15F-E97E-4b13-8658-A97D8C616945}
> 
> Now, when I write the following python code:
> 
> comApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('InDesign.Application') print
> repr(comApp)
> 
> I get:
> 
> <COMObject InDesign.Application>
> 
> Which looks like a dynamic dispatch, rather that a static one, as it 
> should be since I ran makepy on purpose.
> 
> Indeed, I manually placed some print statements around the win32com 
> python source code and I figured out that the name 
> 'InDesign.Application' (I also tried with 'InDesign.Application.CS') 
> maps to the Class ID {ABD4CBB2-0CFE-11D1-801D-0060B03C02E4}. This is
> different from the one produced by makepy, and therefore the dispatch
> method can't find anything in cache, and falls back to dynamic
> behaviour.
> 
> Anybody have a clue on what's going on here?
> 
> I thought I ought to write something different that 
> 'InDesign.Application'... so I tried 'Adobe.InDesign.Application', 
> 'Adobe.CS.....' and all sorts of things, but no luck.
> 
> Once I chose the 'Adobe InDesign CS Type Library' from makepy, how do
>  I know what am I supposed to use as the parameter to Dispatch() ?
> 
> Thank you very much, I hope somebody helps me out. Maybe with some
> useful readings...


From npat at efault.net  Tue Mar  9 21:47:15 2004
From: npat at efault.net (Nick Patavalis)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:47:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Package importing question
References: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>
	<c2l8n5$sqa$1@news.eusc.inter.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc4t0dj.bhj.npat@pink.efault.net>

In article <c2l8n5$sqa$1 at news.eusc.inter.net>, Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> 
> Because all sub modules of package p0 get inserted into the module 
> object for p0. This is so that a later import of p0.m1 won't 
> import/execute it again. And you did import p0.m1 through the 'import 
> m1' in m0.
> 

Yes, but according to this, why doesn't 'sys' show up when I do:

  dir()

After all, I did imported sys through import p0.m0 ????

What if I did something like this:

>From the main I do:

  import p0

>From within p0.m0 I do

  import p1.m1

Latter from main I do

  import p1

will 'm1' show-up in dir(p1)?

What I tend to understand is this: When I import a module, some kind
of dictionary is created for it and a binding to this dictionary is
created in the dictionary of the importing module. So after an import
p0.m0, the situation is like this:


        +-----+
        |     |
        |     V
 main   |     p0
 +-+    |    +-+
 | |    |    | |
 |*|----+    | |
 | |         |*|--+
 | |         +-+  |
 +-+              |
                  V
                  m0
                 +-+
                 | |
                 | |
                 |*|--+
                 +-+  |
                      |
                      V
                      f0

After an import m1, from within p0.m0, I would expect things to be
like this:


        +-----+
        |     |
        |     V
 main   |     p0
 +-+    |    +-+
 | |    |    | |
 |*|----+    | |
 | |         |*|--+
 | |         +-+  |
 +-+              |     
                  V     
                  m0    
                 +-+    
                 |*|-------+
                 | |       |
                 |*|--+    V
                 +-+  |    m1
                      |   +-+
                      V   | |
                      f0  | |
                          |*|----> f0
                          +-+

But what you say, and what seems to be the case in reality, is:

        +-----+
        |     |
        |     V
 main   |     p0
 +-+    |    +-+
 | |    |    |*|---------------+
 |*|----+    | |               |
 | |         |*|--+            |
 | |         +-+  |            |
 +-+              |            |
                  V            |
                  m0           |
                 +-+           |
                 |*|-------+   |
                 | |       |   |
                 |*|--+    V   |
                 +-+  |    m1<-+
                      |   +-+
                      V   | |
                      f0  | |
                          |*|----> f0
                          +-+

So the first obvious question is how was m0 able to find the p0
dictionary and the binding to m1? Am I getting something totally
wrong so far?

/npat


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 21 00:49:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:49:32 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <lI87c.28235$P45.10375@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<105plk0tk9qk73b@news.supernews.com>
	<r9ednfyHeOOfksDdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<lI87c.28235$P45.10375@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Bs-dna9hO5VxscDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On an abstract level, this is true.  On a practical level, when
> someone asks for, or refers to, a language that "compiles to binary"
> (OP's exact words), we know what he's referring to.

About two years ago (if I recall), someone else asked for basically
the same thing.  After some back and forth discussion, it became
apparent that this person didn't really care about the "compiled"
part, but actually was only interested in distributing his program
without needing a separate interpreter installed.  The answers then
became obvious, but before that there was a lot of misunderstanding
going on.  Perhaps you had to be there...

-Peter


From virusscan at inname.net  Tue Mar 30 11:20:35 2004
From: virusscan at inname.net (virusscan at inname.net)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:20:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: VIRUS IN IHRER MAIL 
Message-ID: <20040330162035.901D0943A5@ws8.inname.net>

                          V I R U S   A L A R M 

Unser Virenscanner fand den

	'W32/Netsky-B'

Virus in Ihrer Email an folgende Adressaten:

-> thomas at webagentur.at

Die Email wurde deshalb nicht zugestellt!

Bitte ueberpruefen Sie Ihr System mit einem aktuellen Virenscanner
oder fragen Sie Ihren Administrator dies fuer Sie zu erledigen.

Zu Ihrer Information finden Sie hier den Kopf der Mail:

>From python-list at python.org
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Subject: stolen
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From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 24 04:48:00 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:48:00 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:40:07 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>Beginners will learn very quickly that the special symbol
>means "similar to the standard syntax, but RTFM if you don't yet know
>this variation".

RTFM doesn't really work when you don't have a keyword to look up.
Symbols (and worse, odd combinations of symbols where it's hard to
tell which symbols are part of the same syntax rule and which are not)
that you've not seen before tend not to suggest where in the manual to
look.

If 'as' is too generic, then what about 'decorators'. That clearly
states what follows and can easily be looked up, making the 'RTFM'
attitude justifiable.

OTOH, there is the 'def' keyword for people to look up already in this
case.

>Does it make sense to have a general symbol for modifications of the
>simple standard syntax?

Not really. What happens when there are two different ways of
modifying the same syntax? When the first one was defined with no
awareness that another kind of modification might be needed later?

My opinion is that it is better to try to avoid symbols and
over-generic keywords, and to try to be more explicit about what the
modification actually is (in this case, decorators). Particularly
where the syntax may be infrequently used.

Of course short is sweet too. Easy answers are very rare.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 24 03:12:19 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:12:19 +0100
Subject: Decent way to trace resource leaks?
References: <87r7vk7dnc.fsf@strauser.com> <1061cr2sis3f7d5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3c7yfyu4.fsf@python.net>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

> In article <87r7vk7dnc.fsf at strauser.com>,
> Kirk Strauser  <kirk at strauser.com> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>>I've written a fairly complex application [1] that runs under Windows XP
>>with ActiveState Python.  I'm reasonably sure that I'm freeing all allocated
>>resources, but my process seems grow slowly but steadily over time.  Worse,
>>my network administrator seems to think that it's locking network resources
>>and not freeing them, and while I don't *think* that's the case, I can't be
>>certain.
>>
>>Ideally, I'd like to find a way to dump the process's object hierarchy to
>>the screen or a file in a tree or graph format.  Even without variable
>>names, it'd be tremendously helpful to see that there are 87 instances of
>>Foo objects, each with 20 Bar objects as data members.  Although I'm running
>>the application on Windows, I'm doing all development on a Linux system
>>(using Subversion to synchronize source trees across machines, in case
>>anyone is interested), so I'd prefer something native to Python and not a
>>Windows-specific GUI debugger.
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> This question interests me intensely--which is why I'm taking
> so long to answer it.  I'd love to write a book on resource-
> management techniques.

And I'd love to see some good tools or recipes around the information
that the various gc functions collect and return, and probably around the
(debug-build only) sys.getobjects() function.

Thomas




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 10:57:58 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:57:58 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <mu2150t5ppk9f0n89uhkijtce2htsga2dg@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:20 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
wrote:

>In article <2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg at 4ax.com>,
>David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>>going to help me write some code, I won't have time to study it.  My
>>understanding of lambda functions is simply that they are a way to
>>squeeze functions into a tight space:
>>
>>list_of_funcs = [(lambda x: 2**x), (lambda x: 3**x), (lambda x: 4**x)]
>>
>>If you are not concerned about space, simply use normal defs:
>>
>>def f2(x): return 2**x
>>def f3(x): return 3**x
>>def f4(x): return 4**x
>>list_of_funcs = [f2, f3, f4]
>>
>>Is there any other reason in Python to use lambdas?
>			.
>			.
>			.
>In fact, *that*'s not a reason.  Part of tribal lore--a true,
>documented part, by the way--is that Big Cheese Guido depre-
>cates lambdas.  He says they're a mistake, and people shouldn't

Wow!!  And I thought it was just me.  Could you point me to a PEP or
other discussion?  I would sure like to know the history of this.
Could it be that in adding "lambda calculus" to Python, Guido was
snowed by the language theorists? <half wink>

I think it is really cool that a language can actually have a mistake
like this corrected.  In the commercial world I'm used to, such a
feature would become part of the core religion, and any questioning
would eventually be met with "There are just some things you can't
understand.  Get back to work!"

>be using 'em.  Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named
>function; it forces the developer to come up with a name for
>the operation, and that's likely to make the code more read-
>able (I'm slightly abbreviating the argument here).
>
>Space, in the sense you're using it above, should NOT concern
>Pythoneers.  Correctness and clarity of express should.

Agree 110%

>It pains my sensitivities every time you claim lambdas are
>just a way of making functions "small".  Again, I understand
>how natural that is from your background.  Around this 
>mathematician, 'twould be less distracting to run your finger-
>nails down a chalkboard.

Sorry for the pain, and many thanks for the enlightenment.

>I think this ties back to your broader original propositions:
>the Python aesthetic assesses little merit for the brevity of
>@-anything, and much for the presumed evocativeness of "yield".
>An abundance of *good* keywords is a good thing.  That's
>definitely not the attitude of all languages.

I agree that brevity in itself has little merit.  This whole
side-discussion on lambdas was on the presumption that brevity was the
intent.  I now think deprecation of this wart is the better
alternative.

The choice between adding a keyword and modifying an existing
statement with a standard 'modify' symbol may now be largely a matter
of personal preference.  ( 'yield' vs @return, 'self.x' vs @x ).
Still, there is a small syntactic burden added with each keyword.  We
just have to be careful that the benefit (evoking an instant meaning
to the majority of users) is actually realized.  

A new keyword 'printraw', would certainly do that.  It just doesn't
feel right to me, however.  So if we can't have
print @(separator = None) x,y,z
then I would opt for deprecating 'print' and going with the function
syntax proposed by Paul Prescod:
show(x,y,z, separator = None)

-- Dave



From gandreas at no.reply  Tue Mar 30 10:25:43 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:25:43 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com> <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065@fed1read04>
	<gandreas-29DDCC.09162829032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<5J1ac.64492$cx5.5801@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <gandreas-437395.09254330032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <5J1ac.64492$cx5.5801 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:

> >  So does "foo.bar = 5" add a "bar" slot to "foo" or does it change bar in
> the parent object?
> 
> It took me great trouble to learn to use attribute instead of slot to keep
> Prothon in sync with Python.  I even had to globally replace "slot" with
> "attr" in all my code a week ago, so I'll be replacing your use of slot with
> attribute.
> 
> "foo.bar = 5" will always add an attribute bar to foo.  You have to say
> "parent.bar = 5", or if foo is the current self object, you would say "^bar
> = 5".  The caret(^) prefix reads as "super" and replaces the period prefix
> when you want atrribute lookup to start at the parent of self instead of at
> self.  This was documented yesterday on the website.
> 
> I realize that there is not currently any automatic way to change a value
> found by inheritance.  I'm open to suggestions.  None of the Prothon
> features will be cast in stone until 7/04 so make your suggestions known at
> Prothon mailing lists.

Self gets around this problem by the way it handles assignments as 
method calls, so assigning to a specific attribute/slot/ivar of a 
parent/superclass/prototype is handled like explicitly calling the 
method via a resend or directed resend.

What makes this work is the fact that inheritance is handled by 
"flagging" the slot of the object as something that it inherits from, by 
having an "*" after the name, which results in inerhitance coming from 
explicitly named "paths" rather than some implicit (and usually hidden) 
"__super__" (for example).  So "parent* = anotherObject", "super* = 
anotherObject" and "proto* = anotherObject" all define "anotherObject" 
as something this object inerhits from.  As a result, it is easy to 
explicitly say "parent.foo", "super.foo", "proto.foo" to narrow down 
which thing to inherit from.

Perhaps a similar thing can work for Prothon?  (i.e, explicit "named" 
inheritance instead of implicit anonymous inheritence via "^")?

You could even use "^" for the default "super" (the non-directed 
resend), and then something like "^(anotherParent)" for the moral 
equivalent of a directed resend.

Having named attributes/slots/ivars for inheritence also makes it easier 
to handle dynamically changing multiple inheritence prototypes on the 
fly (since you explicitly have a name for them)


From rick_muller at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 22:25:50 2004
From: rick_muller at yahoo.com (Rick Muller)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 19:25:50 -0800
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular Graphics
Message-ID: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>

I have a problem that I would like to get some advice on from other
Pythonistas. I currently manage a (soon to be) open source project for
displaying molecular graphics for a variety of different programs. To
do this I need to draw pictures of the molecules, typically using
OpenGL, and do some basic control, using some widget set.

The code currently uses GTK, and runs on Macintosh OS X under Fink,
and Linux. I would like to support the "normal" (i.e. non-Fink)
distribution on Macintosh, as well as Windows. I'm currently in the
process of doing the Windows port, and it's been harder than I had
hoped, although I haven't given up quite yet. 

But the porting issue is the main problem with the code so far. I'd
like this project to be something that gets other people excited about
Python here, but I'm afraid that the installation issues is going to
make people say things like "see, Java is better after all". So I'm
seriously thinking about switching widget sets sometime down the road,
to try and get a more cross platform application. 

One thing that really puzzles me is how rare putting an OpenGL window
inside of a widget seems to be. Togl is either dead or is
dying. Gtk.GLArea is either dead or dying as well. Gtk.GLExt seems to
be doing well, and wxPython.glcanvas works nicely. In making these
module decisions I normally try to figure out what most people do,
with the reasoning that whatever option that is will be the best
supported choice. However, it seems that *no one* is really interested
in putting an OpenGL panel inside of a widget. Please tell me I'm
wrong!

What follows are the options I'm considering. I would be grateful for
any advice other python programmers can offer.

1. GTK/PyGTK/PyOpenGL/GTK.GLArea
   Advantages: This is the path of least resistance, since this is
   what the program already uses. Currently works well, looks nice,
   and seems stable.

   Disadvantages: GTK isn't really a standard on Windows, and can be
   problematic on other non-Linux platforms (such as Macintosh/Aqua).
   Plus, the number of different packages that need to be installed is
   daunting. Finally, GTK.GLArea is either dead or dying, so I would
   probably have to distribute this module myself.

2. GTK/PyGTK/PyOpenGL/GTK.GLExt
   Advantages: Upgrade to the GTK.GLExt method of putting an OpenGL
   window inside a widget. Looks better and is supported.

   Disadvantages: Need to rewrite some of the uglier code (which
   probably needs to be rewritten anyway) that uses GTK.GLArea. Still
   requires a long list of modules to be installed. And GTK still is
   not a standard library outside of Linux.

3. Tkinter/PyOpenGL/Togl
   Advantages: Least amount of modules to install.

   Disadvantages: Tk is ugly. Tk is old. Tk doesn't look good on
   Macintosh/Aqua. Togl is either dead or dying?

4. wxPython/PyOpenGL
   Advantages: Seems to be a healthy, integrated solution to putting
   an OpenGL window inside of a widget. Pretty widgets, and lots of
   fancy features.

   Disadvantages: The OpenGL install still crashed under Windows. A
   widget set that not many people use? Also requires the most amount
   of code rewrite, although if it's the best option it isn't a
   problem. 

5. Other ideas:
   It is a sign of my own desperation that I'm even considering things
   like writing a canvas widget that can draw balls and sticks, and
   then just doing the matrix algebra in NumPy, rather than using
   OpenGL. 

Thanks in advance for any help or sympathy that people can offer.


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 16 04:36:01 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:36:01 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyf1xnu47vs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tyf1xnu47vs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4056c4b8$0$305$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
(snip)
> (Hint 2: the word "typing" in "static typing" does *not* refer to
> pressing keys with your fingers, 

Lol !



From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 08:33:52 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:33:52 GMT
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <1060m0593q1uo0d at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> I'd support the "Majority Rules" algorithm. See the article in
> Scientific American (March, 2004 edition) If you run the

There's no free version of the article online, but the authors are given
as Partha Dasgupta and Eric Maskin, and googling on the latter led me to
http://www.sss.ias.edu/papers/papereleven.pdf.

I've only skimmed it, but I'm a little confused by his terms in that
paper.  He first starts, it seems, by defining "plurality/majority rule"
as simply allowing everybody to cast a vote for one candidate, and "a
candidate wins if he or she garners, respectively, a plurality or
majority of all votes cast" - in other words, the obvious way.  But
later on he says, "in true majority rule the winner is the candidate who
beats everyone else in a pairwise comparison", which is Condorcet's
Method.

So I'll assume the "Majority Rules" algorithm is yet another dumbed-down
name for Pairwise Voting aka Condorcet's Method, and say that I like it,
but there's not much point using it for a yes/no vote.  If you're saying to
let people vote on several alternate syntaxes plus "reject outright" -
perfect.

> Cycles are, of course, a problem with that method; you just
> have to do something else to break the tie. Almost anything will
> do if you filter the ballots to just include the issues/candidates
> involved in the tie.

There's a fair amount of analysis on the best method, actually.  In this
case, "Guido's choice" is probably a good one.  (Normally it's done by
counting the relative magnitude of each pairwise win and things like
that.  I'm not clear on whether the existance of a cycle means everyone
in the cycle is really a tossup or if it's fuzzier.)

Joe


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Mar 20 20:10:26 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:10:26 -0000
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
	<877jxguj53.fsf@hydra.localdomain> <c3i64c$q01$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1079831420.822425@yasure>

Quoth aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz):
| In article <877jxguj53.fsf at hydra.localdomain>,
| Kurt B. Kaiser <kbk at shore.net> wrote:
|>
|>Threads are fine.  
|
| This surprises me a bit.  I know the sysadmins of my NetBSD shell
| provider have had perennial difficulty compiling Python with threads
| enabled.  Is there anyone who uses Python with threads on NetBSD?

I missed that, did he say threads are fine on NetBSD?  NetBSD is one
of the last holdouts on system level threads, so until NetBSD 2.0,
you need a `green' thread package like pth.  I've seen that work, in
a network service daemon application, but my sympathies to the sysadmins
who've wasted time trying to get it to work in Python.  Shell provider
that runs NetBSD?  Interesting.

FreeBSD does have threads.  Implementation changed radically between
v 4 and v 5, if I remember right.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From f29 at gazeta.pl  Fri Mar 26 04:12:08 2004
From: f29 at gazeta.pl (f29)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 01:12:08 -0800
Subject: http request doesn't work!
References: <lga760lrot49331hc43mcp9fd0i8vfufi6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aeaacf65.0403260112.77e5fbef@posting.google.com>

> 
> The output of the above is different if you go to the following in
> your browser:
> http://adsl.internode.on.net/htm/un-metered-sites-ip-list.htm
> 
> 
> Whats my problem?!?!??!

Try adding User-Agent header of some popular browser (e.g.
"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko") so that
remote site could not prevent fetching their content with a robot.

Moreover, try looking at the urllib2 module, it has great power.

rgrds,
f29


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 05:31:08 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:31:08 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <406A9DEC.70705@mlug.missouri.edu>

top.
to
bottom
read
to
learn
to
you
forcing
be
would
this
No,

> That is not quite right. Using top posting forces every reader to 
> unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in content.
>
> Left-right - top-down
>
> That's how we are reading and writing in most western cultures. For me 
> that's about 40 years of habbit. And it takes a lot of mental effort 
> to read.
>
> You could just as well expect that we start reading from right to 
> left. Exactly the same thing.
>
> .too confusing pretty is that And

With top posting you're still reading the same way. You shouldn't even 
need to read the quoted text below. It's only there to help keep the 
structure of the conversation recorded. You read the relevant parts of a 
document first and since we are, as you said, used to reading top-down 
that means the relevant parts are highest on the page. The same way we 
read a title and opening paragraph before reading the rest of a document.



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 09:14:38 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:14:38 -0600
Subject: Python for email?
In-Reply-To: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <16485.35918.631037.906922@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    sean> Is there a good module for sending out email?

Check out smtplib in the standard library:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-smtplib.html

Skip



From debacle at debian.org  Tue Mar  2 18:30:08 2004
From: debacle at debian.org (W. Borgert)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:30:08 +0000
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
Message-ID: <20040302233008.GA4960@knorke>

Hi,

I'm not new to Python, but new to databases and PostgreSQL.
I like to write a PostgreSQL client application (not code
running inside of the RDBMS), and Debian has four modules:

python2.3-pgsql - A Python DB-API 2.0 interface to PostgreSQL v7.x
python2.3-popy - module providing access to PostgreSQL from Python2.3
python2.3-psycopg - Python 2.3 module for PostgreSQL
python2.3-pygresql - PostgreSQL module for Python

Now I'm confused: Which one should I use?  I'm going to try
python2.3-psycopg, but maybe the other variants are "easier
to use"?  Or faster?  Or more complete?  Thread-safe?

Thanks in advance for your hints!

Cheers,
-- 
W. Borgert <debacle at debian.org>



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Thu Mar 18 17:56:56 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:56:56 -0000
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>
	<Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<m2y8qbcxak.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<5d83790c.0403170111.58403f06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5kat5.909.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <5d83790c.0403170111.58403f06 at posting.google.com>, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Heather Coppersmith]
> 
>> I'm half-tempted to suggest that there be a string.join_as_strings
>> method (or something with a more concise name) 
> 
> Aahz proposed a builtin join() method to fix this wart.
> I'm 100% supportive but am already way over my quota for builtins.

from raymond import *

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From gabor at z10n.net  Wed Mar 10 11:34:03 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:34:03 +0100
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1078936443.8701.56.camel@dubb>

On Tue, 2004-03-09 at 22:05, Roy Smith wrote:
> Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:
> 
> > In article <roy-F325DF.12255009032004 at reader2.panix.com>, Roy Smith wrote:
> > > OK, I'll bite.  What's wrong with exceptions for breaking out of deeply 
> > > nested loops?
> > 
> > Philosophically, the termination condition of a loop isn't an
> > exceptional circumstance.
> 
> The normal flow of control is when you fall out the bottom of the loop 
> when your control test goes false.  Breaking out of the middle is indeed 
> an exceptional circumstance; it is an exception to the normal flow of 
> control.  People tend to think of exceptions as errors, but they don't 
> have to be.
> 
> Now, to be fair, imagine a construct like this:
> 
> try:
>   for i in range (iMax):
>      for j in range (jMax):
>        for k in range (kMax):
>           if thisIsIt (i, j, k):
>              raise IFoundIt
>    print "it's not there"
> except IFoundIt:
>    print "yes it is"
> 
> Presumably the expectation is that the thing you're looking for will 
> exist somewhere in the i,j,k coordinate space.  Falling out the bottom 
> of the loop is now the error condition.  I think this is what you were 
> getting at, and I agree that this turns the whole concept of an 
> exception on its ear.

i think the biggest problem with this exception-stuff is the naming.

the name 'exception' immediately means (for me at least) some kind of
error condition.... 

maybe if they had a different name, it would be easier to use them also
by non-error-conditions.

gabor




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 10 17:09:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:09:26 -0600
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16463.37398.62978.740185@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    beliavsky> Is there a more recent set of Python style guidelines than
    beliavsky> PEP 8, "Style Guide for Python Code", by van Rossum and
    beliavsky> Warsaw, at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html , which
    beliavsky> is dated July 5, 2001?

Is there something missing you think should be there?  There's no particular
reason a PEP needs to be continually updated.  In particular, notions of
good Python style haven't changed a lot over the past ten years.

Skip




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 11:37:57 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:37:57 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3kg1r$28h8nu$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roger Binns wrote:


> Modulo other dependencies also being installed as well.
> 
> You can do the same thing with Python.  Just package up the source
> files as a zip.
> 
>    $ PYTHONPATH=example.zip python main.py

Just like Java's CLASSPATH (and possibly inspired by it)... this is a
great tip.  Does it work on Windows as well?  And how about .tar.gz,
.tar.bz or .gzip files?


From xml-admin at gnome.org  Mon Mar  1 07:13:13 2004
From: xml-admin at gnome.org (xml-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:13:13 -0500
Subject: Your message to xml awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040301121313.22473.8195.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xml' with the subject

    Re: Your music

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From mark at prothon.org  Thu Mar 25 01:25:08 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:25:08 -0800
Subject: PROTHON, a classless Python
Message-ID: <mailman.1080239527.23797.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Ben Collins and I have developed a new interpreted object-oriented language
very closely based on Python, that is Prototype-based, like Self
(http://research.sun.com/research/self/language.html) instead of class-based
like Python.

I have named the language Prothon, short for PROtotype pyTHON.  You can
check it out at http://prothon.org.

The prototype scheme makes object oriented computing very simple and
complicated things like meta-classes melt away.  Once you get used to
prototypes, classes seem very ancient and old-fashioned.  You can inherit
data as well as methods and you can switch prototypes (think "types" or
"classes") on the fly.

Prothon is pre-alpha, but runs well enough to give it a spin.  Basic types,
the File object, importing, packages, and the Re module are ready to try.
It runs on Linux/Unix and Windows.

Obviously Prothon is not Python compatible, so I have taken the liberty of
implementing many changes that have been imagined for the almost mythical
Python 3.0.  Right now I've made decisions unilaterally, but I'm not
planning on freezing language decisions until 7/04, so get on the Prothon
mailing lists and make your opinions known.

Since the Prothon interpreter has been written from the ground up, we've had
the opportunity to make it industrial-strength.  We feel this is very
important for high-end hosting applications, and that this is a current
weakness of Python and it's GIL.  Prothon has no GIL.  Here are some
interpreter features:

- Uses native OS threads, even multiple interpreters can run at once on the
same objects.

- Locking is done at the object level with shared read locks and exclusive
write locks.

- No recursion limits, Prothon is stackless.

- Garbage collection is mark-and-sweep in seperate thread.

- C coding is simple.  Macros simulate coding at Prothon level. (No
reference counting!)

- Ints are 64-bits, internal architecture is all 64-bit.

- Built on Apache Portable Runtime (APR) for stability, ease in porting, and
eventual integration with Apache.




From haim at babysnakes.org  Mon Mar 22 11:44:48 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:44:48 +0200
Subject: py2exe icon resource on win98
Message-ID: <c3n561$m21$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi

I'm trying to build a binary with py2exe. I've used the method suggested in
the py2exe wiki about adding icon resources to apps. it build ok on win2k,
but when I try to build the same on win98 I get this error:

copying C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\run.exe -> C:\My
Documents\NS_Backup\dist\NS_Backup.exe
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Setup.py", line 13, in ?
    windows = [
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\core.py", line 149, in setup
    dist.run_commands()
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 907, in run_commands
    self.run_command(cmd)
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 927, in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 197, in run
    self.create_binaries(py_files, extensions, dlls)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 391, in
create_binaries
    arcname, target.script)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 577, in
build_executable
    add_icon(unicode(exe_path), unicode(ico_filename), ico_id)
RuntimeError: MapExistingFile: The handle is invalid

----------------------------------
I've attached my "setup.py".

anyone has any ideas?

thanx
--
Haim


-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040322/2285b5aa/attachment.ksh>

From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Mar  9 12:37:11 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:37:11 -0600
Subject: pymat strange behavior
In-Reply-To: <103d4f03.0403080901.257ad684@posting.google.com>
	(7z6fp9202@sneakemail.com's
	message of "8 Mar 2004 09:01:19 -0800")
References: <103d4f03.0403080901.257ad684@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2k71tq5vc.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "John" == John Houston <7z6fp9202 at sneakemail.com> writes:

    John> Hi, there, I recently build pymat (python2.3, matlab 6.5) on
    John> a Linux PC, Everything goes well until I tried to use it in
    John> python2.3:

Not an answer to your question, but I just wanted to point out in case
you didn't know about any of these packages that you can get a lot of
matlab's functionality out of Numeric, scipy and matplotlib.

For example, compare the following matlab and python scripts below

#python
from matplotlib.matlab import *
dt = 0.01
t = arange(0,10,dt)
nse = randn(len(t))                 # white noise
r = exp(-t/0.05)
cnse = convolve(nse, r, mode=2)*dt  # colored noise
cnse = cnse[:len(t)]
s = 0.1*sin(2*pi*t) + cnse
figure(1)
plot(t,s)

figure(2)
psd(s, 512, 1/dt)
show()


% matlab
dt = 0.01;
t = [0:dt:10];
nse = randn(size(t));
r = exp(-t/0.05);
cnse = conv(nse, r)*dt;
cnse = cnse(1:length(t));
s = 0.1*sin(2*pi*t) + cnse;
figure(1)
plot(t,s)

figure(2)
psd(s, 512, 1/dt)


JDH



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 22:57:51 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:57:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
Message-ID: <20040313035751.88625.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com>

Here am I,
On the border...if someone can help me, it would be
nice:

I have a string:

feature_vector. It is of the form 
<index: value, index: value, index: value>

I want to make this string into a dictionary so that I
can apply .keys() method

If I apply .keys() method straight away I get this
error:

AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'keys'

Is there a way in which I can convert/typecast my
string thing to dictionary ??

Thax in advance
Dont



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar  1 02:35:55 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:35:55 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
References: <5d83790c.0402290218.2d3c493f@posting.google.com>
	<8765dp5crs.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c1up4s$prk$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Kurt B. Kaiser wrote:

>> For immutable types, the type constructors are smart enough to reuse the
>> existing value, so t=tuple(mytuple), s=str(mystring), and i=int(myint)
>> all return the original object (same identity) which can be used as if
>> it were a copy.
> 
> What do you mean, "as if it were a copy." It's just a binding to the
> original.  When would you use this notation instead of just
>>>> s = myset  ?

Not particular frequent, but anyway:

>>> sample = [[1,2], (3,4)]
>>> copies = [seq.__class__(seq) for seq in sample]
>>> for s, c in zip(sample, copies):
...     if s is c: print s
...
(3, 4)

Assuming all immutable classes are "smart enough":

>>> def immutable(obj, known={}):
...     try:
...             return known[obj.__class__]
...     except KeyError:
...             result = known[obj.__class__] = obj is obj.__class__(obj)
...             return result
...
>>> immutable(())
True
>>> immutable([])
False
>>>

Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 12 17:35:17 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 17:35:17 -0500
Subject: looping over a class attribute
References: <b82e5469.0403121359.f099aa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2tdv5$hbk$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <b82e5469.0403121359.f099aa8 at posting.google.com>,
biner <biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca> wrote:
>
>I would like to be able to make a loop like this 
>>>> dir(x)
>['__doc__', '__module__', 'val1', 'val2']
>>>> for i in dir(x) : print x.i

print getattr(x, i)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From haim at babysnakes.org  Mon Mar 22 16:17:51 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:17:51 +0200
Subject: py2exe icon resource on win98
References: <c3n561$m21$1@sea.gmane.org> <ekrkddav.fsf@python.net>
	<c3n7l9$tno$1@sea.gmane.org> <1xnkfwhw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <c3nl60$5cl$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> Haim Ashkenazi <haim at babysnakes.org> writes:
> 
>> Thomas Heller wrote:
>>
>>> Haim Ashkenazi <haim at babysnakes.org> writes:
>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to build a binary with py2exe. I've used the method
>>>> suggested in the py2exe wiki about adding icon resources to apps. it
>>>> build ok on win2k, but when I try to build the same on win98 I get this
>>>> error:
>>>>
> [...]
>>>>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 577,
>>>>   in
>>>> build_executable
>>>>     add_icon(unicode(exe_path), unicode(ico_filename), ico_id)
>>>> RuntimeError: MapExistingFile: The handle is invalid
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>> I've attached my "setup.py".
>>>>
>>>> anyone has any ideas?
>>> 
>>> I assume you have unicows.dll installed (this is required on win98), as
>>> described in the py2exe webpage.
>> of course :)
> 
> Well, its better to ask - some people don't read instructions ;-)
> 
>>> The build process on win98 is not tested very good, maybe I overlooked
>>> something.  Can you build your exe when you comment out all the icon
>>> resources?
>> yes. without a problem. it's win98 first edition without any updates
>> (internet explorer 4).
> 
> It's a bug.  I hope I can fix it before the next release.
thanx.

> 
> Thomas
> 
> 

Bye
--
Haim




From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 18 12:49:35 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:49:35 -0000
Subject: running TCL from python
References: <mailman.133.1079626702.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105jo9fhigq3q49@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.133.1079626702.742.python-list at python.org>,
Avik Ghose  <avikghose at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>How can I run a TCL script from within my python code?
			.
			.
			.
There are several ways.  Perhaps it's time to enumerate them in a
Wikified essay ...  In any case, I'll wildly speculate that this 
is the one that best models your situation:

  import Tkinter

  tcl_script = 'puts "The sum of 2 and 3 is [expr 2 + 3]."'
  Tkinter.Tk().tk.eval(tcl_script)
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar 25 22:36:13 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 19:36:13 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403251936.2734dbee@posting.google.com>

[Axel Boldt]
> >   >>> l=[1]
> >   >>> s=l
> >   >>> l.append(s)
> >   >>> w=[1]
> >   >>> r=[1,w]
> >   >>> w.append(r)
> >   >>> s
>  [1, [...]]
> >   >>> w
>  [1, [1, [...]]]
> >   >>> s==w
> >   True
> >
> > Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.
> >
> >   >>> s[0]=2
> >   >>> w[0]=2
> >   >>> s==w
> >   False
> >
> > All of a sudden they have become unequal.

[John Roth]
> You've got a recursive structure! I originally thought
> that the [...] was something you'd done to the printout,
> but it isn't.
> 
> I think the original True is a bug. It's getting confused
> by the recursion.

Armin Rigo found and fixed this for Py2.4:

Python 2.4a0 (#46, Mar 23 2004, 01:55:44) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 <snipped>
>>> s
[1, [...]]
>>> w
[1, [1, [...]]]
>>> s==w


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#9>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    s==w
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp


Raymond Hettinger


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 14:50:47 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:50:47 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.26.1079372001.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16470.2327.907902.695896@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dave> The same problem occurs with strings (some strings at least):
    >>> x = 'abcdefghighklmnop'
    >>> y = 'abcdefghighklmnop'
    >>> x is y
    True
    >>> x = 'abc xyz'
    >>> y = 'abc xyz'
    >>> x is y
    False

The difference is the first string has the form of an identifier, so the
interpreter automatically interns it and it gets shared after that.  The
second doesn't.  You can force things though:

    >>> x = 'abc xyz'
    >>> id(x)
    10476320
    >>> x = intern(x)
    >>> x
    'abc xyz'
    >>> id(x)
    10476320
    >>> y = 'abc xyz'
    >>> id(y)
    10477088
    >>> y = intern(y)
    >>> id(y)
    10476320
    >>> x is y
    True

    Dave> We should at least update the description of the reload function
    Dave> in the Python Library Reference.  See the thread "Reload
    Dave> Confusion" for some suggested text.

Please file a bug report on Sourceforge so your ideas don't get lost.  Feel
free to assign it to me (sf id == "montanaro").

Skip



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 10 22:46:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:46:22 -0500
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
In-Reply-To: <404d8e59$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch> <9oSdnRHo7cgXB9XdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<404d8e59$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <wkR3c.2657$G3.20594@localhost>

Remy Blank wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> Nevertheless, if you are really doing things in a test-driven fashion, 
>> it should not be necessary to use __builtins__, if the open() calls 
>> and such are in your own code.  
> 
> That's a good approach when testing a single module. However, when 
> testing multiple collaborating modules, doesn't it become difficult to 
> ensure that all modules see the same stub functions? 

Yes, it does become difficult then, which is why I added the last clause 
in my paragraph above...

I've resorted to sticking stuff in __builtin__ as well (note, not 
__builtins__) when faced with testing code that calls other modules 
which use open() etc...

-Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 10 17:48:51 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 17:48:51 -0500
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<slrnc4g7nk.4rp.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<99dce321.0403101234.49d7f9f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2o60j$ap$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <99dce321.0403101234.49d7f9f5 at posting.google.com>,
David M. Wilson <dw-google.com at botanicus.net> wrote:
>"David M. Cook" <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote...
>>
>> Python lacks access controls (private/protected etc), though you can
>> use __ name munging.
>
>In an entirely speculative tone, is this correct? I thought new-style
>objects supported protected attributes and such via properties. This
>might be completely incorrect, my head has been like a sieve for the
>last few months. :(

Thing is, in order to store data with a property, there needs to
eventually be a real Python object -- anyone with access to the source
can figure out how to get to it.  Heck, they can just modify the source.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 24 13:33:23 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:33:23 -0700
Subject: Tips on timeit.py
Message-ID: <c9g360p1c3i2knmkptr0amjote93i2usli@4ax.com>

Module 'timeit.py' (LibRef 10.10) is a very convenient command-line
utility for timing code snippets, and avoids the pitfalls in using the
builtin module 'time' (LibRef 6.10).  To time a typical function call
all it takes is:

% timeit.py -s "from PZfuncs import h23c ; freq = 2.0" "h23c(freq)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.29 usec per loop

My only complaint is that it is inconvenient to open a command window,
set the path to include the timeit module and any other modules I
might be using, cd to the working directory, then run the command.
Also, you have to use the primitive command-line editor if you want to
repeat the same test with other functions.  It would be nice to do all
this from an already running Python session.

There are some examples in LibRef 10.10.2 on how to use timeit within
your current session, but they are not as easy as the command above,
and they don't do several runs, picking the best one.  After a bit of
putzing around, I think I have the best way to use timeit without
leaving your current session.  Here are some examples:

>>> import timeit
>>> tm = timeit.main
>>> tm(['-s', 'a = b = "a b"', 'a is b'])  # <== One list, not a tuple of arguments.
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.155 usec per loop
>>> tm(['-s', 'a = b = "a b"', 'a == b'])
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.175 usec per loop

If you are doing something a little more complex, like the
command-line example above, then it is advantageous to first define a
function:

>>> def timefunc(func):
	args = ['-s', 'from PZfuncs import ' + func + '; freq = 2.0',
func + '(freq)']
	timeit.main(args)

>>> timefunc('h23a')
100000 loops, best of 3: 4.92 usec per loop
>>> timefunc('h23b')
100000 loops, best of 3: 5.85 usec per loop
>>> 

Hope this will help someone.

-- Dave



From ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 17:02:11 2004
From: ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk (Ray Molacha)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:02:11 GMT
Subject: Newbie Formatting Question
References: <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680@news.teleline.es>
	<1079991015.28749.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ac980de209321c4989681@news.teleline.es>

In article <1079991015.28749.0 at lotis.uk.clara.net>, 
garryknight at gmx.net says...
> In message <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680 at news.teleline.es>, . wrote:
> 

Hi Garry. Thanks for the reply and the feedback. It's nice to 
know that someone else found the book good -- and thanks for the 
leads for other good books.

Also, thanks for taking the time to look into my question and to 
explain the inner workings a little (the C sprintf() function). I 
also tried a bunch of different format specifications and input 
values -- but couldn't determine anything definitive. It's nice 
to know that it wasn't just me.

If I find out anything more, I'll post back to the group.

Thanks, Ray.

 


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 12 13:29:33 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:29:33 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <10540fi7alea354@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:45:24 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> wrote:
>
> >David MacQuigg wrote:
> >
> >> I know this is the *intended* behavior of reload(), but it has always
> >> seemed to me like a bug.  Why would you *ever* want to keep pieces of
> >> an old module when that module is reloaded?
> >
> >If you wanted a dynamic module, where changes would be picked up by the
> >application from time to time, but didn't want to terminate existing
> >instances of the old version.  There's nothing wrong with the idea that
> >both old and new versions of something could exist in memory, at least
> >for a while until the old ones are finished whatever they are doing.
>
> OK, I agree this is a valid mode of operation.
>
> >Basically, envision an application update mechanism for long-running
> >applications, and its special needs.
>
> I think a good example might be some objects that need to retain the
> state they had before the reload.
>
> >> Seems to me we should *fix* reload, not deprecate it.
> >
> >Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least
> >until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one
> >problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its behaviour.
>
> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when what you
> need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace every
> reference to objects in the old module with references to the new
> objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when those
> references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.
>
> For the *exceptional* case where we want to pick and chose which
> objects to update, seems like the best solution would be to add some
> options to the reload function.
>
> def reload(<module>, objects = '*'):
>
> The default second argument '*' updates all references.  '?' prompts
> for each object.  A list of objects updates references to just those
> objects automatically.  'None' would replicate the current behavior,
> updating only the name of the module itself.
>
> The '?' mode would normally ask one question for each object in the
> module to be reloaded, and then update all references to the selected
> objects.  We could even have a '??' mode that would prompt for each
> *reference* to each object.
>
> In a typical debug session, there is only one object that you have
> updated, so I think there would seldom be a need to enter more than
> one name as the second argument.
>
> > I think that when you consider Python's namespace mechanism, you can't
> > avoid the possibility of situations like the ones reload can now lead
to.
>
> I don't understand.  My assumption is you would normally update all
> references to the selected objects in all namespaces.

I can certainly see wanting to do that in a debug session - or even
with an editor that's broken the way PythonWin is broken (it doesn't
reload the top level module when you say Run unless it's been updated,
so it never reloads the lower level modules even if they've been updated.)

However, I don't remember the last time I used the debugger,
it's been so long. When you use TDD to develop, you find that
the debugger becomes a (thankfully) long ago memory.

However, if you want to be able to replace a module in a
running program, I suspect you'd be much better off designing
your program to make it easy, rather than depending on the
system attempting to find all the references.

John Roth

>
> -- Dave
>




From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Tue Mar  2 12:55:22 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:55:22 -0300 (ART)
Subject: A Simple Server to Capture Single Short Requests
In-Reply-To: <1078249626.12663.6.camel@shrek>
Message-ID: <20040302175522.83933.qmail@web61005.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Craig Edgmon <cedgmon at shaw.ca> escreveu: 

> I am working through Steve Holdens book on Python
> Web Development and
> this may seem like an obvious question, but my error
> states that
> MyRequestHandler is not defined. Any ideas on this?

This looks like an indentation error...

You should place

myServer=SocketServer.TCPServer(('',8080),MyRequestHandler)
                 
myServer.handle_request()

in the 1st column, since it's not related to the class
definition.


______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 10 16:50:58 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>

"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5 at 4ax.com...
> Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
> break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python, is
> easy to type, easy to read, and is clearly distinct from the "base"
> syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
> situations.  Examples:

There is indeed a cost to adding new keywords and operators;
it's possible that existing programs will break. It's quite possible
to design a language where this wouldn't happen, but Python is
not that language.

As it turns out, there is one very simple key to a language
with keywords where adding new ones won't break existing
programs: put them in a lexically distinguishable namespace.
It happens that solution is quite unpleasant to work with -
unless it's supported by a syntax aware editor/IDE. Someday
people will get over their attachment with being able to write
programs with any old text editor that happens to be lying
around, and being able to print their programs without
needing a special formatting program, but that day isn't today,
and I doubt if it's tomorrow.

The problem with adding new operators is a quite different
issue. It arises from the language designer trying to be too
nice to the developers. If the lexer simply collected the longest
possible string of special characters *before* checking if that
collection of special characters made a valid token, and declared
a syntax error if it didn't, then there would be no difficulty with
adding new operators.

That solution is also fairly unpleasant: we're a bit too used to
being able to string special character operators together without
separating them with white space. Again, an intelligent editor/IDE
would help here, too.

An intelligent editor/IDE would also make it possible to add
any of the numerous mathematical symbols from the Unicode
set easily: it could adjust for the developer's preferences in
entering them, and would, of course, display them properly.

I am, I suppose, getting old and cynical enough to have quit
expecting anything quite so radical as a language that actually
expectes the editor/IDE to pull its share of the work.

John Roth





From bogus at bogus.net  Sat Mar 27 10:54:13 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:54:13 -0600
Subject: store tag content with SGMLParser ... ?
References: <Hv6rKp.LoL@news.muni.cz>
Message-ID: <c447tq$qhu$1@news.epidc.co.kr>

"Lukas Holcik" <xholcik1 at fi.muni.cz> wrote in message
news:Hv6rKp.LoL at news.muni.cz...
> Hi Python people!
>
> I'd like to ask you a question about parsing html with SGMLParser class
> from module sgmllib. Is there a way I could get contents of a tag with
> certain properties? For example: I'd like to get a list of all contents
> and hrefs of <a> tags, which have certain value of "class" property:
>
> <a class="section" href="http://example.com">BLABLABLA</a>
>
> I'd like to get stored the "http://example.com" and the "BLABLABLA",
> while class="section". Probably with the use of SGMLParser method
> handle_data. Or better use different approach? Thanks for answers!:)
>
> #Luk
Lukas -

If all your section definitions are as fixed format as this, then a regexp
will probably do.  If you have to deal with additional anchor attributes,
you could write a small SGML subset using pyparsing, just matching the tag
pattern you are looking for.  With pyparsing, you don't have to define the
complete SGML syntax, just the desired pattern - then extract the results
using scanString.  Here is an example that is tolerant of additional
attributes in the '<a class="section"...' tag.

-- Paul

===========
# get pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net
from pyparsing import Literal, quotedString, CharsNotIn, OneOrMore, Word,
alphas

someSGML = """
<SGML>
<tag>some stuff</tag>
<a class="section" href="http://example1.com">BLABLABLA</a>
more blah blah blah...
<a class="section" color="RED" href="http://example2.com">BLEBLEBLE</a>
<SGML_TAG>sldkjflsdkjflsdkjf</SGML_TAG>
<a class="section" href="http://example3.com" size="venti">BLIBLIBLI</a>
</SGML>
"""

tagBody = CharsNotIn('<').setResultsName("body")
href = Literal('href') + '=' + quotedString.setResultsName("href")
otherAttrDef = Word(alphas) + "=" + quotedString
sectionDef = ( Literal('<a class="section"')  + OneOrMore( href |
otherAttrDef ) + '>' +
               tagBody + "</a>" )

for match,start,stop in sectionDef.scanString( someSGML ):
    print "href=",match.href
    print "body=",match.body
    print

============
>pythonw -u getSGMLrefs.py
href= "http://example1.com"
body= BLABLABLA

href= "http://example2.com"
body= BLEBLEBLE

href= "http://example3.com"
body= BLIBLIBLI






From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Mar 22 18:04:07 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 18:04:07 -0500
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
	<fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c37svj$jlu$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <uoeqojxg8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

> >> Is there any plan to make bindings of the future fox toolkit 1.2.x for
> >> python? New widgets, antialiased fonts and so on is a "Good Thing".
> >>
> >> GTK is a pain, wxpython is horribly slow, and tkinter doesn't have
> >                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Your experience is clearly at odds with what most other people
> > report about wxPython.  (And, I might add, about GTK, as far as I
> > can tell, though I haven't used it myself.)
> 
> Agreed.  I've never felt wxPython was slow, and have heard that PyGTK
> is comparable (in terms of features, ease of use, etc.) to wxPython.

Well, as long as you don't include startup time I'd agree, but it is a
bit bloated in terms of loading that initial support DLL, which
includes potentially far more of wxWindows (oops, wxWidgets) than a
given application needs.

Of course, you could rebuild the DLL removing support for the various
stuff you don't currently need, but that's not too convenient for
maintaining over time, and not everyone has the facilities for
rebuilding the wxPython DLL from wxWidgets source.

I seem to recall reading that 2.5.x might contain (or support)
fracturing the main monolithic DLL into well-defined smaller pieces
that hopefully will improve this.

-- David


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Mar  9 02:39:50 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:39:50 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <mailman.120.1078757424.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<20040309035213.GB18682@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c405a9$b4483720$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> [Mr. Binns helpfully deleted the attribution, so I didn't even realize
> right away he was replying to my post]

I was posting in the newsgroup where everything is well threaded.
Apologies if you feel slighted.

> I wonder why I never remember being bitten by the bug you describe.
> Maybe I rarely write code which requires the later addition of a
> nested loop (something that would apply equally to today's "break" and
> "numbered break").  Maybe I sort it out (but there's no guarantee I'm
> smart enough to sort out a slightly more complex scheme).  Or maybe I
> run into this all the time, stuggle to re-write the code within Python's
> limitations, and then forget about it before the next time it happens.

When I encounter it, I am usually in an "add small changes then test" mode
so I don't really notice.  I also use Xemacs which makes changing levels
of indenting etc very easy.

> Occurrences of "while" or "for": 2357
> Occurrences of "continue" or "break": 526

In my own project:

while/for:         1066
continue/break:     170
raise:              431
try:                750
if/elif/else:      3708

It was amazing to me looking through my code just how many if statements
there are.

> A minority of loops have a single continue or break.  Wouldn't it be an
> extreme minority that are nested, need multi-level break, and aren't
> expressed about as well in one of the other forms? (iterators being my
> favorite, and exceptions being my least favorite)

My one hairy module (similar to where goto's end up useful in C) is written
using iterators (it is code generator, and doesn't do error recovery or
similar user friendly stuff).

Having two layers of nesting is very common.  It is usually along the lines
of    for line in file:  for token in line    where file/line/token are
various things such as buttons, config settings, log events etc

I found the places where break/continue more than one level are ones
like that, but where the is being updated typically adding in extra
information if it doesn't already exist.  Boolean variables are used to
keep score.

I think some of that could be alleviated through the use of 'else'
with 'for/while' although it looks like I need the opposite of its
semantics (a 'not else').  Quite frankly the existence of 'else' 
in this context as a language feature baffles me and I don't use it.

> I have seen one call
> for [g(x) for x in l while f(x)].  

I didn't even know you could do that (the while).  List comprehensions
aren't typically used on hierarchical data (which suggest hierarchical
code structure) and hence wouldn't have much need for break/continue
let alone multiple levels.

Roger



From chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 05:12:40 2004
From: chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 02:12:40 -0800
Subject: urllib & browser proxy settings
Message-ID: <d232c5e.0403100212.7b86b109@posting.google.com>

I am running a medusa bases server, which spawns a copy process which
reports back it's status using urllib as below

        try:
            f = urllib.urlopen("http://localhost:8088/root/copyresult"
, params)
            print f.read()
        except:
            print "could't tell copyresult server I'm initializing %s
,%s %s " % (item,sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value)
        print 'Attempting to Copy %s to %s' %(values[1],values[2])

This is all works very well and life is a sea of tranquility and
programming is fun (see threads passim.)

However when the server is used in the presence of a system which has
the browser proxy setting activated (mozilla or IE) It fails with
"Software caused connection abort". However the 'normal' functions of
the server continue properly. I have tried changing the localhost to
127.0.0.1 all to no avail.

Perhaps this isn't really a python question since it is activated by a
change in the machine configuration but I would really benefit from a
solution as clients will of course be running in an environment that
uses a proxy setting and I don't like being laughed at. (except by you
lot obviously).


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 26 17:07:22 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:07:22 +0000
Subject: Special symbols again (was Re: The problem with "as")
References: <du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<slrnc630qv.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<7n34609f4t6uueb79aia3km2pm68orh0u6@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6480p.4lj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <d3a9601srfutqhpubpjgc96qdbcnlgidte@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:24:34 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

>Why is the current standard priveleged?  A few years down the road, half
>of the basic functionality of the language will have special symbols in
>front of it, just because it was proposed after an arbitrary date.  The
>symbol wouldn't tell anything about the features it's attached to except
>the relatively uninteresting fact of when they were added to the
>language.
>
>The only use I can see for such information is to mark features which
>require a recent interpreter, and a single otherwise meaningless symbol
>is a particulary ugly way to do it.

I largely agree, though there is one point worth making. This could be
seen as a 'trial feature' system. If the feature catches on and it
annoys people to use an 'extension' syntax, a non-extension syntax
could be added later. Thus features could be added in a standard way
without needing new syntax, kind of testing the waters.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From amy-g-art at cox.net  Wed Mar 24 19:22:53 2004
From: amy-g-art at cox.net (Amy G)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:22:53 -0800
Subject: Mod_python
Message-ID: <qDp8c.41418$Bg.9880@fed1read03>

I posted yesterday asking about python cgi and how to implement it.

In a reply I was advised to use mod_python instead.

I am using Apache 1.3.7.

I downloaded both mod_pyton-2.7.10 and 2.7.9.

I configured and ran make mso, make install on both with the same result.

After adding the required lines to my httpd.conf and restarting apache I get
the following error.

Syntax error on line 237 of /usr/local/etc/apache/httpd.conf:
Cannot load /usr/local/libexec/apache/mod_python.so into server:
/usr/local/libexec/apache/mod_python.so: Undefined symbol "pthread_create"

Thanks for any help.




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 06:09:52 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:09:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: getting size of gif
In-Reply-To: <c33p9k$t59$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040315110952.81782.qmail@web8307.mail.in.yahoo.com>

As long as you need only a particular image type
("gif"), this technique should be good, but of course
PIL has support for a large number of image formats,
and you should use it.

The problem I faced when using PIL (for the very same
purpose) was that when I conbert it into a Windows
executable (using py2exe), the number of dependencies
are huge. But if creating a Windows executable is of
no concern to you, then why bother? Use PIL.

-Premshree Pillai

 --- Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote: >
Garry Knight wrote:
> 
> > > note that you don't need all of PIL to run the
> above example; it's enough
> > > to install Image.py, ImageFile.py,
> ImagePalette.py, and the
> > > *ImagePlugin.py files you need for your
> application.  the binary
> > > extensions are not needed.
> >
> > Gosh, what a payload!
> 
> you can download the files from the net; you don't
> have to type
> them in yourself.
> 
> > It might not be the Python way of doing things,
> but this should work
> > just as well:
> >
> > f = open('x.gif', 'rb')
> > gif = f.read(6)         # 'gif89a'
> > width = ord(f.read(1)) + 256 * ord(f.read(1))
> > depth = ord(f.read(1)) + 256 * ord(f.read(1))
> > print "width = %d, depth = %d" % (width, depth)
> >
> > You could just do f.seek(6) in the second line if
> you're not worried about
> > checking that it's a valid gif file. Of course,
> this only works with
> > single-image files, not with animated gifs.
> 
> it gives you the height, not the depth.  and it
> returns the size of
> the logical screen, so it should work with animated
> GIFs as well.
> 
> but it doesn't give you any other information about
> the file, and it
> doesn't work for JPEGs, PNG files, or any of the
> other 35+ formats
> PIL supports.
> 
> </F>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  4 01:16:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 01:16:03 -0500
Subject: mimic -i from script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.47.1078253784.12614.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.47.1078253784.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m9OdnfiPgrQ5VNvd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

John Hunter wrote:

> Is it possible at the end of a script to issue some python command
> that will cause the python shell to open as if the -i flag had been
> used

See the first item in 
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/section-other.html

-Peter


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Mon Mar 22 22:27:57 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:27:57 +0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7iptb4ckea.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    >> The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
    >> to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
    >> compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order to
    >> decide if it's a generator.

    Stephen> Good point. Though to me, it isn't that it's a pain for the
    Stephen> compiler to search for the 'yield' - I don't care about the
    Stephen> compilers pain. The problem is that *I* have to look for the
    Stephen> yield and might not notice it.

I disagree.  It's not just the compile which has to search for that yield
keyword, we human being reading other's uncommented code (or mis-commented
code) also has to do the same.  It would do much good if the completely
different call convention of generator is made much more explicit in the
definition of the function.

Regards,
Isaac.


From ark at acm.org  Wed Mar 17 14:58:18 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:58:18 GMT
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
	<Ky%5c.26184$Pa7.671188@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<Ze6dncncZq9qCcXdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <u526c.26643$Pa7.684312@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:Ze6dncncZq9qCcXdRVn-tA at powergate.ca...
> Andrew Koenig wrote:

> > "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
> > news:4057B2A4.F9EC49DD at alcyone.com...

> >>Do you have an example of this that doesn't involve comparisons between
> >>different types?

> > Do long and float count as different types?
>
> Was this a trick question?

Not particularly.  Although long and float are obviously different types, I
suspect that most people who say that they do not expect comparisons between
different types to work, they do expect comparisons to work consistently
between integers and floating-point values.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 14 13:01:05 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:01:05 -0600
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
In-Reply-To: <20040314164032.924.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040314164032.924.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040314180105.GB7397@unpythonic.net>

on seekable, byte-oriented binary files, sure.

import errno

SEEK_SET, SEEK_CUR, SEEK_END = range(3)

class Reversed:
    def __init__(self, f):
        self.f = f
        self.f.seek(-1, SEEK_END)
        self.at_eof = 0

    def read_byte(self):
        if self.at_eof: return ''
        byte = self.f.read(1)
        try:
            self.f.seek(-2, SEEK_CUR)
        except IOError, detail:
            if detail.errno == errno.EINVAL:
                self.at_eof = 1
            else:
                raise
        return byte

    def __iter__(self): return self

    def next(self):
        r = self.read_byte()
        if r == '': raise StopIteration
        return r

>>> "".join(Reversed(file("/etc/redhat-release", "rb")))
'\n)worraY( 1 esaeler eroC arodeF'

Jeff



From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 12 01:38:27 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:38:27 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561ED4@opus.amorhq.net>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> 
> wrote in message 
> news:<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>...
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500, John Roth wrote:
> > > Someday people will get over their attachment with being 
> able to write
> > > programs with any old text editor that happens to be 
> lying around, and
> > > being able to print their programs without needing a special
> > > formatting program, but that day isn't today, and I doubt if it's
> > > tomorrow.
> > 
> > I doubt it's ever, because such a day would have to be 
> preceded by the
> > day when programs no longer need to be inspected, maintained or
> > transferred between systems not specifically set up as developer
> > workstations.
> 
> funny thing is VB has survived this long just because you HAVE to have
> the IDE to edit the code. That is one of the biggest selling points of
> VB.

Not strictly true; I've edited VB using Notepad. Sometimes that's the
only way to produce correct code. But I don't think that nit damages
your argument.

You knew *someone* would bring up that objection. ;)


FuManChu



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 19 15:38:49 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:38:49 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>


"Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
news:c3f1ac$n29$1 at sunnews.cern.ch...
> Hi,
>
> Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python lost
> class static variables values.

There is no such thing as a static variable in Python.

> It seems only to append when importing a "badly" named module that
> itself import a module with a static variable in it (looks complex, but
> see the example below, pretty simple):

There is no such thing as a static variable in Python.


> First a working example:
> <<<< file: aTest.py
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> import imp
> import A
> name='B'
> fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module(name)
> B=imp.load_module(name, fp, pathname, description)
> a=A.A(1)
> b=B.B()
>  >>>>
>
> <<<< file: A.py
> class A:
>      a=None
>      def __init__(self,a=None):
>          if (a):
>              A.a=a
>      def __str__(self):
>          return str(A.a)
>  >>>>
>
> <<<< file: B.py
> import A
> class B:
>      def __init__(self):
>          a=A.A()
>          print a
>  >>>>
>
> Execution:
> $ ./aTest.py
> 1
>
> The value 1 obtained as expected (A.a is a static value and keept as
such).
>
> If now I just *rename* file B to B.1, without any change in the code
> (except name='B' become name='B.1' in aTest.py), content of B.1.py file
> being exacty the same as content of B.py, I get:

[...]

"B.1" is not a legal file name from an import perspective. The manual
description for find_module says: "The function does not handle hierarchical
module names (names containing dots)."

John Roth


>
> Thanks.
>
> Yannick
>




From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 24 13:28:30 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 20:28:30 +0200
Subject: declaring multimethods [Was: Re: PEP 318]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.348.1080142389.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du71xnip0a9.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Skip> always be the class).  Hmmm... t1 presents a problem since
    Skip> at the time multimethod(Matrix,Matrix) is called there is no
    Skip> Matrix class available (it hasn't been bound yet).  You'd
    Skip> have to fudge that and use strings as the type names.  That
    Skip> presents another problem.  Classes, unlike functions,

I'll reiterate here my view that putting the multimethods inside
classes is not really all that important. CLOS doesn't do that, for
one (And Lisp people certainly seem to be quite happy with that
approach :-). You can just do:

def multiply(self,other) [multimethod(Matrix, Vector)]:
    pass

after the classes have been created. The code within the function uses
self just like it would in a class.

With classes you get the advantage of having the names hidden in the
class namespace, obviously. But here I think the advantages of the
function-based approach outweigh the disadvantages. 

We could also specify that the first type listed is always the class
into which the multimethod should be injected, and do the injecting in
the decorator. It would look alien in python code to find the function
in a namespace different from where it was deffed, though.

FWIW, I'm gradually getting really excited about these wrapper
thingies; they seem to create a new dimension of pythonism, despite
the fact that they really bring nothing new to the table. I sense the
coming of a new success story a'la List Comprehensions.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar 11 09:46:18 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:46:18 -0600
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <8MSdnaDhvPIq5s3d4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Max,

You must use os.path.walk() along with zipfile to get
what you want.  os.walk will walk the directory
tree recursively calling a function that you pass
to it.  Inside of that function you can call zipfile
to add each file in that subdirectory to the .ZIP
output file.

-Larry


"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message
news:404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> I guess that the best approach is calling a shell tool with something
> like os.popen(). But I cannot seem to find any free tools.
>
> Winzip has a command line option, but for registered users only. That is
> bothersome if I want to install the script on other machines.
>
> The same for pkwares zip. At least I cannot seem to find a free version
> of it.
>
> gzip seems able to do the trick, but I need to install Cygwin, that's
> also a bother ;-)
>
> Can it really be that there is no free .zip command line tool for
> Windows, or are my Googling skills just to poor?
>
> Ideally it should just be a single .exe file that I can put in the
> folder with my script, for easy distribution.
>
> Or is there a more Pythonic approach?
>
>
> regards Max M




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 17 17:05:15 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 23:05:15 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<i3zVAls/K72A089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <tyfekrr86zo.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) writes:

>    Far too few.  After the `nested x` statement comes
> `nested nested x` and `nested nested nested x`,

Nope. You would never write more than one "nested". It would be an
instruction to Python _not_ to treat the name as local, just because
there is an assignment to the name in the local scope. The nearest
scope that has a binding for the name shadows all others ... just like
nested scopes work today. The only problem (today) is that an
assignment to the name creates a binding in the local scope, so there
is no way of _re_-binding a name in an enclosing scope.

Languages which support nested scopes have been around for decades,
and none of them have (to my knowledge) found the need for specifying
which nested scope you want to look in; the nearest one is the one you
want. That's, partly, the point of nested scopes.


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Tue Mar  2 12:02:22 2004
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:02:22 +0100
Subject: Computing test methods in unittest.TestCase
Message-ID: <4044BE1E.7000408@jandecaluwe.com>

I'm working on a unit test for a finite state machine (FSM).  The FSM
behavior is specified in a dictionary called transitionTable. It has a
key per state with a tuple of possible transitions as the corresponding
value.  A transition is defined as a number of input values, a next
state, and a documentation string.

I want to test each possible transition in a separate test method. For
a particular transition, a test method could look as follows:

class FSMTest(unittest.TestCase):
    ....
    def test_START_2(self):
        """Check state START - Switched channels before data started"""
        state, transition = START, transitionTable[START][2]
        sim = Simulation(self.bench(state, transition))
        sim.run()

As the number of transitions can be large, I want to
"compute" the test methods, based on the transitionTable info.
Currently, I have the following:

class FSMTest(unittest.TestCase):
    ....
    for st, trs in transitionTable.items():
        for i, tr in enumerate(trs):
            def _tmpfunc(self, st=st, tr=tr):
                sim = Simulation(self.bench(st, tr))
                sim.run()
            _tmpfunc.func_doc = "Check state %s - %s" % (st, getDoc(tr))
            exec "test_%s_%s = _tmpfunc" % (st, i) 

This works, but uses some "ugly" tricks:

* default arguments to pass context info. As the code is executed in
  class context, not function context, I cannot use free variables.
* The use of 'exec'. unittest looks for methods with name prefix
  'test_' in the class namespace, and I didn't find another way
  to achieve that.

Anyone with better ideas?

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
    Python is fun, and now you can design hardware with it:
    http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/Overview.html



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Mar 23 21:43:47 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:43:47 GMT
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405ff7f4$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<bpq060ds2fj2uc01023ftk4a9a0jh1utht@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94B625F0E927CJanC@213.119.4.35>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> schreef:

>      I could see government restrictions on what was allowed for
> encryption... Too strong, and the implementation can't be "exported" out
> of the US...

That would be a real problem, as the main Python.org site is located in the 
Netherlands...   ;-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From mickel at csc.fi  Fri Mar 19 02:52:53 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:52:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Sentence splitter module?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403190948310.19344@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi!

Is anyone aware of a freely available sentence splitter module for Python?
It does not have to be anything fancy, but it should be able to split
written text in most European languages on regular punctuation mark
combinations followed by whitespace and possible supply a list of
abbreviations that override the plain punctuation rules.

All advice appreciated.

Thanks!

/Mickel Gr?nroos

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From SSchukat at dspace.de  Wed Mar 31 08:09:02 2004
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:09:02 +0100
Subject: Python & COM
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C0723BD50@PDC-DSPACE>

Just retrieve a VARIANT from the safearray, e.g.

SAFEARRAY *array=V_ARRAY(a);
long    i,val;
long    lUBound = 0;
long    lLBound;
long    nDim;
VARIANT varElement;

SafeArrayGetUBound(array, 1, &lUBound);
SafeArrayGetLBound(array, 1, &lLBound);

for(i = lLBound; i < lUBound; i++) {
    VariantInit(&varElement);
    SafeArrayGetElement(array,&i,&varElement);
    if (V_VT(varElement) == VT_I4) 
    {
        c_array[i - lLBound] = varElement.lVal;
    }
    VariantClear(&varElement);
}

Regards 

	Stefan


-----Original Message-----
From: Anand K Rayudu [mailto:anand at easi.soft.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:22 AM
To: Stefan Schukat
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python & COM


Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the suggestion. From little debug i found out that I am 
getting VARIANT of safe array.
How ever I am not getting proper values from the safe array.

Could you please suggest how to implement that
Do you see any problem in the following code.

>
>SAFEARRAY *array=V_ARRAY(a);
>long i,val;
>for(i=0;i<len;i++){
>   SafeArrayGetElement(array,&i,&val)
>   c_array[i]= val;
>}
>
>I am not getting proper values in C array.
>Any suggestions?
>  
>



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar  5 13:45:46 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:45:46 +0100
Subject: How to process Chinese using Python?
References: <14b36d18.0403051037.21d6f8e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2ahsq$mbt$05$1@news.t-online.com>

chad wrote:

> I don't know how to make use of the encodings and what encoding I
> should use.  The PEP 0263 page is not helpful.
> 
> Whenever I have Chinese characters in my Python code, I get this
> warning message:
> 
> C:\Python23\codes>python stripper.py
> sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xc0' in file
> stripper.py on lin
> e 22, but no encoding declared; see
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for
>  details
> 
> when I attempt to execute it.
> 
> It still warns even if I add
> 
> # -*- coding: <utf-8> -*-

Try changing that to

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-

Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar 23 06:12:39 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 13:12:39 +0200
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
	<du71xnjvptq.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<116060ler85o8u8e2tjn9rjp3j7ocp3d3q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du7u10fakbc.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    Stephen> Do we really want people writing...

    Stephen> d = lambda x : staticmethod (someotherdecoration (whateverdeco (x))

Probably not - but the 'as' syntax should accept any iterable, so it
could be

d = [d1, d2, d3]

or with currently proposed syntax

d = functional.compose([d1,d2,d3])

Which just needs the not-yet-implemented 'functional' module :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:45:33 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:45:33 -0800
Subject: inetd script in python?
References: <8ab78660.0402270403.6a36f7f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-5EB61D.11453301032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <8ab78660.0402270403.6a36f7f3 at posting.google.com>,
 jan.kesten at web.de (Jan) wrote:
...

> import socket
> import sys
> client = socket.fromfd(sys.stdin.fileno(), socket.AF_INET,
> socket.SOCK_STREAM )
> while 1:
>     bfr = client.recv(1024)
>     client.send(bfr)
> 
> And a similar one with 0 instead of sys.stdin.fileno(). Only thing I
> get is this error:
> 
> socket.error: (134, 'Transport endpoint is not connected')
> 
> (Same thing when using stdin/stdout - I'm trying to connect via a
> telnet client on a Solaris8/sparc machine).

That's odd - works for me on MacOS X.  This is a Berkeley
UNIX platform, though, and it sounds like you may have a
system there where sockets are a layer on an AT&T STREAMS
network implementation - the `transport endpoint' thing
is my clue on that.  That's one thing to look at - maybe
in that system, socket operations really aren't supported
by whatever TLI module they use with inetd.  Try posix.write
and posix.read instead.  They may work, while Berkeley socket
functions don't.

On the other hand, inetd is really supposed to give you a
unit 0 & 1 that support socket operations, and a platform
that fails to do that would be pretty unpopular, I would
think.  I guess it would have the same effect if socket.fromfd
is not working right on your platform, so that might be
something to look into if you are in a position to do that.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From j_jagdeesh at students.iiit.net  Fri Mar  5 13:36:14 2004
From: j_jagdeesh at students.iiit.net (Jagarlamudi Jagadeesh)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:06:14 +0530 (IST)
Subject: Executing a system call
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403060003510.16212-100000@students.iiit.net>



Hi All,
	
	There are so many ways to execute a system call like,
		getstatusoutput()

		os.system()
	
		fork()
		os.execvp()

		using popen

	Of all these, which is the best to use ( interms of speed and 
resources) ?

-- 
	Jagadeesh Jagarlamudi
	Btech 3rd year student.
	IIIT - Hyd,
	Gachibouly, Hyderabad




From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 30 17:08:33 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:08:33 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> Gerrit wrote:
> 
>> only one. I think it is the wrong answer to say that people shouldn't
>> bitch about top-posting - it _does_ annoy people (including me and Aahz).
> 
> 
> Will you please reign in you ego and qualify your statement 'it annoys 
> *SOME* people'.

Well, it seems that it annoys *most* people here. BTW, I was about to do 
the same... (Mark, if you read us : your work seems pretty interesting, 
so do *yourself* a favor and make your posts more readable !-).

> I find all the bitching about top posting to be a 
> greater distraction than top posting itself!

So please stop bitching about people bitching about top-posting.

>> There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they are there
>> with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
>> 'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.
> 
> I find bottom posting to be a real pain as when I look at a new message 
> it defaults to showing me the top of the message and I then have to 
> scroll through pages of quoted posts that I have already read just to 
> read one or two lines stuck at the bottom.

If you have to do so, then the poster didn't get point : only quote 
what's needed.

(snip)

> 
> I have never left a group because of the trolls.
> I have never left a group because of the noobies.
> I have left a group because of the constant whining about top posting.

May I suggest you to count how many messages Mark posted here before 
someone kindly suggested that he could help everyone by doing a simple 
thing ? If that's what you call 'constant whining', then you are the troll.

> People who whine on about 'top posting' are the sort of people who draft 
> 'clean desk' policies. If you want to whine about top posting then start 
> alt.whine.top.posting and have fun.

Apr?s vous, mon cher.

Bruno



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 22:41:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:41:54 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <105plk0tk9qk73b@news.supernews.com>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<105plk0tk9qk73b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <r9ednfyHeOOfksDdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

John Roth wrote:

> Actually, I believe he did specify what he wanted it for. He said,
> and I'm quoting from is message:
> 
> [quote]
[snip quote]
> [end quote]
> 
> The key phrase here is
> 
> "just uses Python's basic syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement 
 > markers, use indentation to denote
> code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic
> and OO features would still be interesting to me"
> 
> I certainly think that is clear enough. He wants a compiled language
> that has some of Python's ease of use features. Is that so hard to
> understand?

Yes, it is.  Compiling something is not only an ambiguous concept (Java 
is compiled, but generally runs only on virtual machines and so does not 
have some of the benefits of languages which are compiled to native 
machine code), but does not have *inherent* benefits.  It would be quite 
possible to come up with a compiler which produced very slow code, maybe 
slower than CPython for many specific problems, for example.  If we 
could point Ed to such a thing, would he be happy?  Maybe, but we don't 
know why he specific "compiled".

Without any idea whether Ed wanted improved *packaging*, or 
*performance*, or something else (an academic exercise?), it isn't 
possible to provide a useful answer.

So *yes*, I do think it is that hard to understand.  At least, it should 
be if one really wants to help the OP, IMHO.  Is that so hard to understand?

-Peter


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 14:08:02 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:08:02 +0800
Subject: Britney Spears nude
In-Reply-To: <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com> <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c49rqo$2ebolk$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

John J. Lee wrote:

> "celebsrus" <sfji.azc at qfiiyaxb.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude
>>Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude
> 
> [...]
> 
> I see Britney has branched out from Semiconductor Physics into Python
> tutoring...
> 
> 
> John

With Britney promoting Python, we are UNSTOPPABLE!!  Perl, C#, Java, and
Ruby, eat your heart out!


From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar  6 16:07:57 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:07:57 +0100
Subject: Need better string methods
In-Reply-To: <c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <404A3DAD.4030308@stackless.com>

William Park wrote:

...

>># Current best Python:
>>clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]
> 
> 
> Both Bash shell and Python can split based on regular expression.
> However, shell is not a bad alternative here:
>     tr -s ' \t' ' ' | sed -e 's/ ?| ?/|/g' -e 's/^ //' -e 's/ $//' |
>     while IFS='|' read -a clean; do
> 	...
>     done

But isn't that regex expression much harder to understand
for part-time programmers than the few Python methods?

(Quoting David's post)
"""
clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

This is too much to expect of a non-programmer, even one who
undestands the methods.  The usability problems are 1) the three
variations in syntax ( methods, a list comprehension, and what *looks
like* a join function prefixed by some odd punctuation), and 2) The
order in which each step is entered at the keyboard.  ( I can show
this in step-by-step detail if anyone doesn't understand what I mean.)
3) Proper placement of parens can be confusing.
"""

Right. This quite a couple of concepts in one line, and it
might be short and efficient, but obfuscated for the none-
programmer.
Isn't this more readable? :

pieces = line.split(|)   # break at the bars
nodots  = [ piece.strip(".") for piece in pieces ] # remove leading or 
trailing dots
clean = [" ".join(words.split()) for words in nodots] # normalise spaces

Well, there is still some complexity with the join/split mess.
But still more readable than the regex?

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From lamote1 at netscape.net  Mon Mar  8 13:24:53 2004
From: lamote1 at netscape.net (chads)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:24:53 -0600
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
In-Reply-To: <404CA25A.7090102@zoran.com>
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
	<404CA25A.7090102@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <104pejmnqs5rp2e@corp.supernews.com>

Miki Tebeka wrote:

> Hello Chad,
> 
>> How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
>> simple example?
>>
>> union {
>>    struct {
>>       int size;
>>       float time;
>>    } var1;
>>    struct {
>>       char initial;
>>       float time;
>>    } var2;
>> };
> 
> You can't, but you're thinking in C and not in Python ;-)
> 
> Python variables are dynamically typed, this means
> a = 100
> a = "Hello"
> a = lambda x: x * 2
> 
> Is OK in Python.
> 
> You should use classes where you use structs in C
> class var1:
>     def __init__(self, size, time):
>         self.size = size
>         self.time = time
> class var2:
>     def __init__(self, initial, time):
>         self.initial = initial
>         self.time = time
> 
> And to check the type of variable you can use `isinstance' function.
> I don't recommend using the above, have each function return one type of 
> object only. Unions were created to same memory, Python is the wrong 
> language for such optimizations. If you need to save memory using unions 
> I suggest coding in C and using SWIG/Boost.Python to export the C module 
> to Python.
> 
> HTH.
> Miki

Thanks



From http  Tue Mar 23 03:46:37 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 00:46:37 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c3oqsl$mfe$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7x8yhs3q8i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> I've been wanting to email you for a couple days, but I've been having
> difficulty in finding your email address online anywhere, or even
> derived from the "Sender" header (though I didn't try too hard other
> than to strip out the -nospam portion).  If you would email me
> directly, I'll reply with what I've been wanting to say.

My From: header gives a url (http://phr.cx) where you can leave me a
message.  It looks like it's having DNS problems though.  
http://paulrubin.com also works.


From klausm0762 at yahoo.de  Sat Mar  6 18:00:09 2004
From: klausm0762 at yahoo.de (Klaus Momberger)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 15:00:09 -0800
Subject: is perl better?
References: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<80a8af7d.0403051630.2b278bf0@posting.google.com>
	<4049ac4d$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <80a8af7d.0403061500.7ecf9fd6@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<4049ac4d$0$564$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Klaus Momberger wrote:
> > you might try to define classpath as a system environment variable and
> > increase the environment buffer size using the /E:nnnnn option of
> > command.com.
> 
> command.com is not used on windows NT/2000/XP
> 
> > It can be set from CONFIG.SYS with an entry like: 
> > 
> > SHELL=C:/WINNT/SYTEM32/command.com C:\ /P /E:4096 
> 
> Config.sys ditto.
> 
> This won't work because he uses a windows 2000 system.
> 
> --Irmen
>
IIRC it helped me on my WIN2K system. But I am not going to check. ;-)

-klaus


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Sun Mar  7 17:35:55 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 07 Mar 2004 22:35:55 GMT
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
References: <mailman.44.1078539398.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404ba3cb$0$279$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am kinda new to Python, but not new to programming. 
> 
> I don't want to read line after line, neither do I
> want to read the whole file all at once.  Thus none of
> read(), readline(), readlines() is what I want. I want
> to read a text file sentence by sentence. 
> 
> A sentence by definition is roughly the part between a
> full stop and another full stop or !, ?
> 
> So, for example, for the following text:
> 
> "Some words here, and some other words. Then another
> segment follows, and more. This is a question, a junk
> question, followed by a question mark?"
> 
> It has 3 sentences (2 full stops and 1 question mark),
>  snip
> How can I achieve this?  Do we have a readsentence()
> function?
> 
> Please give a hint.  Thank you!
> 
the hint :
import itertools
help(itertool.takewhile)

# not tested (no python 2.3 on Debian gateway at home)

import itertools
def readsentence(iterable, ends = (".", "!", "?"), yield_fn=''.join):
    """generator function which yields sentences terminated by ends"""
    end_pred = ends
    if not callable(ends):
        end_pred = lambda c : c not in ends
    it = iter(iterable)
    while True:
        sentence = []
        add = sentence.append
        for c in itertools.takewhile(end_pred, it)
            add(c)
        # How to have the item skipped by takewhile ?
        t = tuple(sentence)
        if callable(yield_fn):
            t = yield_fn(t)
        yield t

text = """\
Some words here, and some other words. Then another
segment follows, and more. This is a question, a junk
question, followed by a question mark?"""

for sentence in readsentence(text):
    print sentence


From P at draigBrady.com  Thu Mar 11 06:03:01 2004
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:03:01 +0000
Subject: Reading from stdin
In-Reply-To: <mailman.225.1078931668.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2nab0$lr7$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
	<mailman.225.1078931668.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40504765.7030905@draigBrady.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Colin> However, I want the python script to print out the numbers as it
>     Colin> gets them, since there could be hours/days between numbers - not
>     Colin> a very efficient C program :). Actually, I would like to
>     Colin> read-a-line/ print-a-line/ read-a-line/etc
> 
>     Colin> I have tried things like 'sys.stdin.read*' with no success.
> 
> Have you tried this?
> 
>     import sys
>     for line in sys.stdin:
>         print line.strip()

That's block buffered. More details here:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/readline/python

P?draig.


From haim at babysnakes.org  Sun Mar 28 20:43:25 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:43:25 +0200
Subject: Python installing on Debian
References: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c47uvv$eet$1@sea.gmane.org>

Guillaume Gervais wrote:

> Hello there,
> 
> I'm using Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable (sarge) as an operating
> system. About a month ago, I installed python 2.3 on my machine, from the
> sources.
> 
> And it worked perfectly.  But about 3 weeks ago, I made a update of the
> packages list (apt-get update) followed by a apt-get dist-upgrade.  I
> short, I upgraded Debian.
> 
> But among the ugraded packages was python2.3.  And it doesn't seem to
> install properly.  Here is the error message (it is in french, since my
> mother tongue is french...) :
> 
> # apt-get install package
> [...]
> Param?trage de python2.3 (2.3.3-6) ...
> Compiling python modules in /usr/lib/python2.3 ...
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> SyntaxError: ('future feature rested_snopes is not defined',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the
> file',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the
> file',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the
> file',)
> 
> SyntaxError: ('from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the
> file',)
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/test/badsyntax_nocaret.py", line 2
>     [x for x in x] = x
> SyntaxError: can't assign to list comprehension
> 
> dpkg : erreur de traitement de python2.3 (--configure) :
> le sous-processus post-installation script a retourn? une erreur de sortie
> d'?tat 1
> Des erreurs ont ?t? rencontr?es pendant l'ex?cution :
> python2.3
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> 
> 
> But there are some python programs I am using that works fine.  But this
> line :
> 
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> 
> appears very often when I run python programs (but the program itself
> works fine).
> 
> When using apt-get, the package I am installing installs fine, same thing
> when I am removing a program, but the error message always appears at the
> end, and it is very annoying.
> 
> Can someone help me out?
It's a very bad idea to install self-compiled applications to the same
prefix as the ones from original packages. this can breake many things on
your computer. what you have now is a semi-broke python installation, and a
package that tries to install itself every time you run apt-get but fails.

I think your best chance to "clean" things would be to uninstall every
python2.3 package on your system (see what happenes when you run 'apt-get
remove --purge python2.3'). but make sure you understand what you're doing
(e.g. do you really want to purge your zope installaion? do you have
important stuff there, do you know how to restore it?). then if there's
still stuff in /usr/lib/python2.3 and /usr/local/lib/python2.3 check that
they don't belong to any package (with dpkg -S filename) and remove them.
also check if you have a python binary in /usr/local/bin and delete it.
then re-install all the python2.3 packages. this of-course will make you
lose all your self-compiled modules, so you'll have to re-compile them.
this is a long and messy job, but you got yourself into this position. just
make sure you understand what you're doing before your doing it.

in the future I would recommend using the source from unstable to build a
package if you want a version newer then the one that exist in testing.
also use 'stow' when you're compiling sources. this will let you uninstall
self-compiled application easilly.


> 
> Thanks a lot,

good-luck (you'll need it) :(
--
Haim





From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar  3 22:26:58 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:26:58 +1300
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <404675da@news.tce.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
Message-ID: <c267m2$1pfqkl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Dale King wrote:
> I would bet that there is somebody somewhere still programming in ENIAC
> assembly language.

Did ENIAC *have* an assembler? I thought it was programmed
with a patch panel.

(The word "patch" meant something quite different in those
days...)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From ds.nope at orion.no.way  Wed Mar  3 20:28:53 2004
From: ds.nope at orion.no.way (Dag Sunde)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 01:28:53 GMT
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pDv1c.43009$BD3.8193748@juliett.dax.net>

"David M. Wilson" <dw-google.com at botanicus.net> wrote in message
news:99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c at posting.google.com...
> Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote...
>
> > When it comes to dynamic, DB driven sites, PHP is the only way to go.
> > Python is not even close to being suited for this task. PHP claims to be
> > a general-purpose language, but I do not know anyone who uses it for
> > anything other than dynamic Web programming.
>
> Like everyone else who has replied, I seriously question how much
> experience you have with the multitude of Python web environments
> available. As an objective, point-by-point look at your specific
> example of somewhere PHP is strong, here's my reply:
>
> [PS: I still use PHP regularly, albeit only for quick unimportant
> hacks that won't exist in 6 months]

< a lot of brilliant points snipped />

ROFLMAO!

Wohoo!

Thisone is going to draw some heat, David!

(Not that I don't agree with you, though...
 Python is probably the most beautiful
 scripting language I've ever used).

--
Dag.




From garabik at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Thu Mar 11 07:06:21 2004
From: garabik at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 12:06:21 GMT
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <c2pknt$1ur91f$1@ID-89407.news.uni-berlin.de>

Uwe Mayer <merkosh at hadiko.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know the python community is not very receptive towards extending the
> python syntax. Nevertheless I'd like to make a suggestion and hear your pro
> and cons.
> 
> I want so suggest a concatenation operator like in mathematics: ?
> such that: 
> 
>    a(b(c(d))) <=> a?b?c(d)
> 
> Now, why do you think such an extension would be completely useless? ;)

because neither in mathematics people agree on the order:
a?b(x) == a(b(x)) or
a?b(x) == b(a(x)) ?

besides, we are running out of ASCII
and besides, it would make more sence to introduce definable operators,
? la C++

def (x)?(y):
    return lambda par: x(y(par))
print (a?b)(x)

or, without leaving ascii:

def (x)composition(y):
    return lambda par: x(y(par))
print (a composition b)(x)




-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Mar 19 05:54:38 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 12:54:38 +0200
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <du78yhxjedt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jon> Can one run a 1.5 .pyc file with the 2.x version
    Jon> interpreters and vice versa?

Nope, bytecode compatibility is not guaranteed. 

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From pit.grinja at gmx.de  Sun Mar 14 14:40:22 2004
From: pit.grinja at gmx.de (Piet)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 11:40:22 -0800
Subject: Number formats in wxpython
Message-ID: <39cbe663.0403141140.34618da3@posting.google.com>

I am developping a small Python/wxPython app to track expenses. A
bunch of information is collected in a wxGUI consisting of text
controls, comboboxes and a small grid. Some values are not put in by
the user, but are calculated (e.g. the price of 789 g apples when 1 kg
is 1.99 ? or the mean fuel consumption of a car when the user puts in
the amount of fuel and the driven distance). The values from the
calculations and from the user inputs are stored in an external file.
I would like to define the format of currency information by setting
the number of digits after the decimal point to two. THe information
displayed in the grid can be controlled by using cell renderers, but
the do not influence the output. Is there something like number
formats in wxPytghon, such as the formats known from Mic++++++'s
ex***?
Thanks a lot
Peter


From michael at foord.net  Mon Mar 22 03:21:13 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 00:21:13 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
References: <mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403220021.db39215@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message 
> > news:<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > > Regular expressions are not a good tool for this purpose.
> > 
> > Hmm... I'm not sure if I've been helped or not :-)
> > Thanks anyway.....
> > 
> > Odd that you can't do this easily with regular expressions - I suppose
> > it doesn't compile down to a neat test.... but then it's hardly a
> > complex search... OTOH I have *no idea* how regular expressions
> > actually work (and no need to find out)...
>  
> >From one Fu.*man to another ;) you do have a need to find out, even if
> you don't recognize it. Start with A.M. Kuchling's excellent,
> Python-based tutorial at: http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/
> 
> At the least, you should understand why a regex is not an all-in-one
> solution to your issue. It basically comes down to the fact that a regex
> is geared to do its analysis in a single pass over your text. As it
> finds partial matches, it may backtrack to try to find a complete match,
> but in general, it moves forward. Therefore, if you want to find three
> words in a *declared* order in your text, a single regex can do it
> easily. If you want to find three words in *any* order, the simplest
> solution using regexes is to perform three separate searches. There are
> ways to get around this within a regex, but they're neither as simple
> nor as maintainable as letting Python do the iteration:
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> text = 'Some aa text cc with bb search terms.'
> >>> search terms = ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
> >>> [re.findall(re.escape(word), text) for word in search terms]
> [['aa'], ['bb'], ['cc']]
> 
> or, for your case:
> 
> >>> def has all terms(content, terms):
> ... 	for word in terms:
> ... 		if not re.search(re.escape(word), content):
> ... 			return False
> ... 	return True
> ... 
> >>> has all terms(text, search terms)
>  True
> >>> has all terms('A is for aardvark.', search terms)
> False
> 

Thanks for your reply, it was both helpful and interesting.
Unfortunately it only confirmed my suspicion that what I wanted to do
wasn't possible :-(

The database 'module' I'm using (which is basically fine for my other
purposes) does searches through it's records using regular
expressions. A full search through 1800 records (each record can be a
couple of k of text) takes about 0.2 seconds - which is fine.... but
doing 4 or 5 searches and comparing results *isn't* (0.2 seconds delay
is ok - 0.8-1.0 seconds isn't).... So I'm currently just searching for
the longest word - KirbBase then returns the full *text* of each song
containing that word... and I'm just checking each song to see if it
has the other words :-)

This works fine, isn't noticeably slow, but isn't as elegant as I'd
hoped...

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> 
> HTCYTIRABM!
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 23 21:26:14 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:26:14 -0700
Subject: Idle won't start - Update
References: <ecebe16b.0312141050.4a10fbba@posting.google.com>
	<8eh830tlh056hk21hm9v49m3qcinjv4pq9@4ax.com>
	<ekd930dhm5p9280hg41gbdu3heosq6f8tm@4ax.com>
	<0cq930hneq0bni65g6viroa86l5lj6ogt0@4ax.com>
	<u44p50huqtd4vlkp057vmnanhep5tbhulj@4ax.com>
	<87y8pvrxgg.fsf@hydra.localdomain>
Message-ID: <29s160h78stogkhc38jbmrllgckvfufi6d@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:00:00 GMT, kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
wrote:
[snip]
>A couple of months ago improvements were made to the robustness of the
>subprocess communication.  If you can use the current CVS, you may get
>better results and I'd be interested in hearing about any further
>problems.

I don't have time for much experimentation at the moment, so I'll
continue using what I have until the next Python release.  Other than
these occasional startup problems, I'm very happy with IDLE.

-- Dave



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  2 10:37:39 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:37:39 -0600
Subject: Escape problem
In-Reply-To: <f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac@posting.google.com>
References: <f046efac.0403020657.432f14ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040302153738.GC22280@unpythonic.net>

The exact answer depends on what library you're using in your
application.

THe low-level answer is that you must properly escape characters that
would otherwise be treated specially by html.

For example, the output needs to look like this
    <FORM ...>
    <INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="something" VALUE="foo&quot;bar&quot">
    ...
    </FORM>

If you do not escape or otherwise treat specially the " characters, the
resulting non-html output will contain something like
    <INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="something" VALUE="foo"bar"">

... this kind of bug can also lead to cross-site scripting (XSS) problems,
for instance if an attacker can control the string in question and sets
it to something like '"><SCRIPT>alert(document.cookie)</SCRIPT>'...

Jeff



From zapazap at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 03:24:19 2004
From: zapazap at yahoo.com (zapazap)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 00:24:19 -0800
Subject: Pythonic control of VMware -- ctypes does not provide access to
	'menu' gui-control.
Message-ID: <4b3b1124.0403010024.7d044ac1@posting.google.com>

Dear Snake Charming Gurus,

(Was: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-January/204454.html)

First, a thank you to Tim Golden, Thomas Heller, and Mark Hammond 
for your earlier help with this problem.  I am uncertain about what 
etiquette calls for, but more on that later.

My Objective:
  I am trying to control the _VMWare Desktop_ application
  pythonically on WinXP Professional OS, with hopes of doing 
  the same later on Linux.  (If it can be done easily on Linux 
  I might quit the WinXP work now, but I have never done any
  automation like this on Linux before.)

My Progress:
  I have been trying to extend Simon Brunning's _winGuiAuto_
  module to deal with tabs listviews.  This was the subject
  of my previous thread.  I am facing a more fundamental 
  problem.  I am unable even to exercise the application's
  main menu, which is something I thought winGuiAuto in its
  present form should have been able to do.

My Test:
  I have a unittest that successfully opens and closes both
  _Notepad_ and _Freecell_, but fails to close _VMware_.

My Suspicion:
  I suspect that there is a different "path" (so to speak) to
  the menu control in the VMWare application than exists in
  the other two applications.

Question #1 (My Etiquette):
  Having said "Much Thanks!!" at the end of my first post, should  
  I have written back in thanks, privately or publicly?  I greatly 
  appreciated the help (and helpful it was), but have long thought 
  "thanks in advance" covered the "friction" of followup thanks.  
  But I recently read ESR's "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way" 
  and am not so sure.

Question #2:
  Is my suspicion correct?  Might I have to go through several
  nested controls before I get to the menu control of some apps?
  If so, I think may need to search for some interactive browser
  and/or debugger for windows app to reverse engineer the app's
  structure.  But I fear how much windows arcana I will need to
  learn if I am to do this :-(  -- advice of any sort would sure
  be encouraging.

Question #3:
  Perhaps life would be much easier for me if I do it in Linux?
  (Since most of my work will eventually be done inside the VMs,
  the host OS does not matter so greatly to me.)

Let me say that my goal is for a user to be able to see ONLY the
virtual machine, but be able to have snapshots taken and restored,
devices reassigned, etc, from within the VM without seeing the 
host.  I will just have the VM talk to the Host via sockets, that
is no problem to hack on.  My only difficulty is having a process
on the host actually drive the VMWare application in a way that 
does not require the VM to leave full-screen mode.  Perhaps this
description might help someone in their helping me?

My failing unittest follows.  It was run under Python 2.3.2.

Thank you again!
- Bryan Hann (zapazap AT yahoo DOT com)

---------------snip-------------------------------------------------
# Warning: close all instances of NOTEPAD, FREECELL
# and VMWARE before running this test

import os
import sys
import time
import unittest
import ctypes
import win32con
import win32gui

##########################################
#  begin user configurable values
##########################################

# path to vmware folder
VMWARE_HOME = 'D:\\Progra~1\\VMware\\VMware~1'
# number of seconds to wait for the OS to respond to a change request.
DELAY = 2.0
# command prefix
CMD = 'start cmd /c '    

##########################################
#  end user configurable values
##########################################


class Test_CloseViaMenu(unittest.TestCase):

    def test_freecell(self):
        
        # I document this method; the others are similar.
        
        # text to be found in the title of a freecell application        
        appname = 'FreeCell'           
        command = CMD + appname
        # ensure no currently running instance of the application
        assert not get_hwnds(appname)
        # launch the application
        os.system(command)
        # give it time  
        time.sleep(DELAY)
        # get the (unique) hwnd for the application's main window
        [hwnd] = get_hwnds(appname)    

        # find the id for the Game|Exit menu entry
        hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenu(hwnd)
        assert hmenu, 'Application %s has no menu!' % appname
        assert menu_name(hmenu,0)=='&Game'        
        hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetSubMenu(hmenu, 0)
        assert menu_name(hmenu,9)=='E&xit'
        ExitID = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenuItemID(hmenu, 9)

        # try to close the application
        win32gui.PostMessage(hwnd, win32con.WM_COMMAND, ExitID, 0)

        # give it time  
        time.sleep(DELAY)
        # it should be gone now
        assert not get_hwnds(appname)  

    def test_notepad(self):
        
        appname = 'Notepad'
        command = CMD + appname
        assert not get_hwnds(appname)
        os.system(command)
        time.sleep(DELAY)
        [hwnd] = get_hwnds(appname)
        
        # find the id for the File|Exit menu entry
        hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenu(hwnd)
        assert hmenu, 'Application %s has no menu!' % appname
        assert menu_name(hmenu,0) == '&File'        
        hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetSubMenu(hmenu, 0)
        assert menu_name(hmenu,8) == 'E&xit'        
        ExitID = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenuItemID(hmenu, 8)
        
        win32gui.PostMessage(hwnd, win32con.WM_COMMAND, ExitID, 0)

        time.sleep(DELAY)
        assert not get_hwnds(appname)

    def test_vm(self):
        
        appname ='VMware'
        command = CMD + appname 
        assert not get_hwnds(appname)
        os.system(command)
        time.sleep(DELAY)
        [hwnd] = get_hwnds(appname)

        # find the id for the File|Exit menu entry
        hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenu(hwnd)
        assert hmenu, 'Application %s has no menu!' % appname
        assert menu_name(hmenu,0)=='&File'        
        hmenu = ctypes.windll.user32.GetSubMenu(hmenu, 0)
        assert menu_name(hmenu,12)=='E&xit'        
        ExitID = ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenuItemID(hmenu, 8)
        
        win32gui.PostMessage(hwnd, win32con.WM_COMMAND, ExitID, 0)

        time.sleep(DELAY)
        assert not get_hwnds(self.appname)

def menu_name(hMenu,nn):
    """
    Given an hMeny and index nn, return the name of
    the nn-th item in the menu.
    """
    dummy = ctypes.c_buffer("\000" * 32)
    ctypes.windll.user32.GetMenuStringA(
        ctypes.c_int(hMenu),
        ctypes.c_int(nn),
        dummy,
        ctypes.c_int(len(dummy)),
        win32con.MF_BYPOSITION
        )
    return dummy.value

def get_hwnds(text):
    """
    Return list of all top level hwnds with specified
    text in the title.
    """
    fn = win32gui.GetWindowText
    list = []
    win32gui.EnumWindows( (lambda hwnd,acc: acc.append(hwnd)), list)
    return [ hwnd for hwnd in list if text in fn(hwnd) ]
        
if __name__=='__main__':
    fn = sys.getwindowsversion
    win_ver = {4: "NT", 5: "2K", 6: "XP"}[fn()[0]]
    assert win_ver in ["2K","XP"]
    if not win_ver == "2K":
        print >> sys.stderr, 'warning: tested only on windows 2K'
    os.environ['PATH'] = os.environ['PATH'] + ';' + VMWARE_HOME
    unittest.main()


##########################################
# The following is the output I got
##########################################

"""
..F
======================================================================
FAIL: test_vm (__main__.Test_CloseViaMenu)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "U:\test.py", line 95, in test_vm
    assert hmenu, 'Application %s has no menu!' % appname
AssertionError: Application VMware has no menu!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 3 tests in 5.137s

FAILED (failures=1)
"""


From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar  9 23:18:48 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:18:48 -0500
Subject: Explane File modes please --
In-Reply-To: <433f4c9a.0403091824.2d3ed304@posting.google.com>
References: <433f4c9a.0403091824.2d3ed304@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404E9728.10906@cfl.rr.com>

What exactly does the underlined text mean. w & a obviously mean you are 
going to update the file.
So what does the + mean on w+ & a+ mean?
Also please could someone explain w+ truncating the file.
I may just be dense so please be patient :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Copy from python 2.3.3 help file]
file( filename [, mode [, bufsize ] ] )

Return a new file object (described earlier under Built-in Types). The 
first two arguments are the same as for stdio's fopen(): filename is the 
file name to be opened, mode indicates how the file is to be opened: 'r' 
for reading, 'w' for writing (truncating an existing file), and 'a' 
opens it for appending (which on some Unix systems means that all writes 
append to the end of the file, regardless of the current seek position).

Modes 'r+', 'w+' and 'a+' open the file for updating (note that 'w+' 
truncates the file). Append 'b' to the mode to open the file in binary 
mode, on systems that differentiate between binary and text files (else 
it is ignored). If the file cannot be opened, IOError is raised.

-------------- next part --------------
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From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar  7 09:10:27 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:10:27 -0600
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
In-Reply-To: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16459.11603.826538.710113@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Roy> I've got a module that defines a bunch of constants:
    Roy> OP_FOO = 1
    Roy> OP_BAR = 2
    Roy> OP_BAZ = 37

    Roy> and so on.  The values are all unique.  I want to build, at module
    Roy> import time, a reverse map of these constants, i.e. I want to end
    Roy> up with:

    Roy> {1: "OP_FOO", 2: "OP_BAR", 37: "OP_BAZ"}

Have a look at

    http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/ConstantMap.py

Skip



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 20:27:44 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:27:44 -0800
Subject: Error Message & IDLE - PyShell
In-Reply-To: <8f198e47.0403150651.12f973cc@posting.google.com>
References: <8f198e47.0403150651.12f973cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c35lc3$sdi$3@news.service.uci.edu>

> how its possible without touching python interpreter src code ?

I don't believe it can be done.

  - Josiah


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 28 00:04:07 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:04:07 -0000
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <mailman.1.1080428101.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<76adnc77cvMUl_vdRVn-jA@centurytel.net>
	<76adncn7cvNZl_vdRVn-jA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <106cn6797h0aje1@corp.supernews.com>

In article <76adncn7cvNZl_vdRVn-jA at centurytel.net>,
Ed Suominen  <ed-no at spam-eepatents.com> wrote:
>Sorry, the RE should be '(\d+)\s+\"([\w\']+)[,\s]+([\w\']+)'
>
>Ed Suominen wrote:
>
>> m = sre.search('(\d+)\s+\"[\w\'][,\s]+([\w\'])', s)
>> x = (int(m.group(1)), group(2), group(3))
			.
			.
			.
And the bound list should be ... well, how 'bout I just
start from the top?
  import sre

  s = '''740446505        "O'HANLON, Benjamin"'''
  m = sre.search('''(\d+)\s+"([\w']+)[,\s]+([\w']+)''', s)
  x = (int(m.group(1)), m.group(2), m.group(3))
  print x
I see we're appropriately ignoring multiple commas, missing
close quotes, ...
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From tcsh-bugs-bounces at mx.gw.com  Wed Mar  3 08:46:26 2004
From: tcsh-bugs-bounces at mx.gw.com (tcsh-bugs-bounces at mx.gw.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:46:26 -0500
Subject: Your message to Tcsh-Bugs awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.4766.1078321586.855.tcsh-bugs@mx.gw.com>

Your mail to 'Tcsh-Bugs' with the subject

    hello

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://mx.gw.com/mailman/confirm/tcsh-bugs/10ccbeb6da37f131d1b278a7b0e1aebbb5e075ef




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 20 04:56:18 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:56:18 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I was just curious wrt deployment issues.  So I guess it is
> fair to say that .pyc files are not as flexible as Java
> class files which are at least forward compatible in most
> cases (i.e. old class files will run on newer JVMs).

It is not about Python being "less flexible" than Java, Python is 
evolving.  It is also stated in the docs somewhere that bytecode is not 
guaranteed to be forwards or backwards compatible.


> I'm sure a 2.N.x .pyc can run on a 2.N.y interpreter though,
> right?  :-D

Yeah, they try not to do bytecode changes mid point releases.


> The answers also make me curious about how CPython's VM works.
> I suppose that, unlike Java, it is constantly being reworked
> in more extensive ways from one dot-version to another.  Would
> that also explain why there is no detailed spec detailing how
> CPython's VM works (since its design is not as nailed down as,
> say, the JVM)?

Virtual machine, interpreter, call it what you want.  There is probably 
documentation somewhere, but the best idea (if you are interested) is to 
just take a dive into the source.  It is all browsable on sourceforge.


> As a programmer, I find installing (and uninstalling) Python
> extensions to be about as easy as one can wish for.  However,
> for end users, it would be great if we can someday have the
> equivalent of a Java Runtime Environment with all the important
> extensions already included.  Then Python developers can distribute
> ..pycs to end-users and expect them to work with few to no issues.

IMO you are better off packaging them with py2exe or an equivalent for 
your platform.  Then you can guarantee that your users are running 
python version x.y.z, and not x.y.a (minor releases are to fix 
relatively important bugs, which may effect the execution of your program).


> The things I would like to see in this hypothetical Python Runtime
> Environment (PRE) would be Pygame, PyOpenGL, PyGtk (once it finally
> matures on Aqua), and the other popular extensions they rely on (like
> Numeric - although the current PyOpenGL is experimenting with
> using numarray instead).

Such a PRE would not be small, and trying to get compatible versions of 
all of those 3rd party modules, for every supported platform, would be a 
pain in the ass.


> It may not necessarily have to be the current lightweight distro being
> released by the offical Python maintainers, but a separate one
> specifically geared for end users who mainly wish to use 3rd party apps
> written in Python.  Due to Python's nature, such a PRE would also
> automatically be an effective developer environment, nullifying the
> need for an SDK edition.

There already exist 3rd party Python distributions with various add-ons. 
  I don't know of any off the top of my head (because I have no need for 
them), but I have heard mention of them here.

  - Josiah


From bouil at bouil.org.invalid  Wed Mar 24 14:28:35 2004
From: bouil at bouil.org.invalid (Nicolas Bouillon)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:28:35 +0100
Subject: py files includings each others
In-Reply-To: <1061q52ke6rjsad@news.supernews.com>
References: <AL48c.32121$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<1061q52ke6rjsad@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pfl8c.32205$zm5.13378@nntpserver.swip.net>

John Roth a ?crit, le 24.03.2004 02:46 :
> Hope this helps.

Thanks.


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 23 17:57:10 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:57:10 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FB88A.12995153@alcyone.com> <Ag28c.581$bm1.441@news02.roc.ny>
Message-ID: <4060C0C6.3BA8FF23@alcyone.com>

Lee Harr wrote:

> ZOE (http://www.alcyone.com/software/zoe/) looks really nice.

Thanks, although I never would have suspected someone would describe it
as "nice."  I was expecting more along the lines of, "So what?"  :-)

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ The meaning of life is that it stops.
    -- Franz Kafka


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 29 04:58:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:58:48 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c48s0o$t3s$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> # bsddb version: c = bsddb.btopen(None)
> for i in x:
>     if i not in c:
>         c[i] = None

You might try a minor change:

for i in x:
    c[i] = None

The fewer the redundancies the larger the speed gain (I suppose; that really
needs testing to be sure).

Peter



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Mar 11 03:54:04 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:54:04 +0100
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.220.1078923665.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.220.1078923665.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4050292C.6060200@mxm.dk>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> Max M wrote:
 >
> Honestly, I wouldn't do this myself, I just tell everyone to get tar and 
> gzip, but here's a simple example of using ZipFile for creating zips of 
> directories.  You'd want to check for .jpg, .mpg, etceteras and avoid 
> compressing those most likely, but the basics are there.


Ok I got around to trying out the tarfile module, and as usual it was 
far easier than I would have suspected.


import tarfile

package = 'somedir'
tf = tarfile.open('%s.tar.gz' % package, 'w:gz')
tf.add(package)
tf.close()


So much for using command line tools for this... ;-)

Thanks for all the pointers.


regards Max M


From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Mon Mar 22 07:51:58 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 04:51:58 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403220451.4061cac5@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote...

> The current foo=staticmethod(foo) makes the Python 'staticmethod' seem
> like a hack. Many users of staticmethod won't even need to know that
> wrapping takes place.

I find myself in diametric opposition here. :)

Users (read: developers) /should/ know how staticmethod is working
under it's skin, that's (and hopefully no-one here disagrees) a bloody
good thing. The fact that defining a static method is a simple
assignment tells the developer a lot more about Python's internal
workings than extra syntax does. It's far more general, it's explicit,
and it's readable.

I can't see at all how it can be considered a hack.

If at some future date, staticmethod becomes intrinsicly linked to the
Python core in some magical way, then I can see an argument for extra
syntax, but as it stands, staticmethod is a wrapper, defining a
staticmethod is equivalent to "foo = staticmethod(foo)", and "def foo
as staticmethod" is in my books rather ambiguous.


>  It certainly discourages people from using the
> feature in the first place.

Again, I can't see how.


> And when did syntactic beauty stop mattering?

Don't get me wrong, I love lovely looking code, but I don't like code
that wears makeup, which is what this is. We can already do this via
another, simple, more descriptive means.


David.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Mar 27 14:21:30 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:21:30 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
References: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <0r0hj1-824.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>        [snip summary of changes]
>
>     Roger> I now have code that works for me and my project.  However it
>     Roger> wouldn't really be appropriate for going back into the standard
>     Roger> library because it spends most of its time having to subvert the
>     Roger> design and implementation of the existing classes.
>
>     Roger> However I was wondering if anyone was working on fixing the (IMHO
>     Roger> horrible) mess and wants any moral support?
>
> Sounds like you've done most of the work already.  Why not post a few
> patches to SF for the various affected modules?

The standard modules need to be redesigned!  And M2Crypto would have
to be the standard SSL.  And as I state in the first paragraph you quote,
it has to subvert the existing classes.  Think of my code as the
result of using chainsaws and band-aids all over the existing code.
The end result works fine for me and my project.  But I wouldn't
remotely want to change the existing library to anything like it.

Here were the goals I was trying to meet.  The current Python library
does not remotely meet them.

XML-RPC client:

   - Connections are made over SSL
   - A callback to verify the certificate if there is no
     CA or other defined mechanism
   - HTTP/1.1 is used, and the connection is reused if
     still open
   - HTTP authentication is used
   - Automatic reopen of connection if above one doesn't
     work (eg remote end closed it after timeout)
   - Be thread safe (eg one connection per thread - don't
     reuse across threads)

XML-RPC server:

   - Connections are accepted over SSL
   - Callbacks to verify incoming connections, certificates and
     credentials of the connections
   - Verification of HTTP authentication information
   - Connections are kept open/keep-alive (HTTP/1.1)
   - Use of a bounded thread pool that handles the connections

Roger




From niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu  Tue Mar 23 14:13:00 2004
From: niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu (niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:13:00 -0500
Subject: class methods and variables
Message-ID: <0403241080.AA1080144333@ws3.cimex.com.cu>

Having the class Name, is there any way to obtain the class methods or even the
variables it has defined?
Is there in python something like the Java reflection?

Thanks
Niurka




From cris.tobal at free.fr  Fri Mar 19 00:44:08 2004
From: cris.tobal at free.fr (cristobal)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 21:44:08 -0800
Subject: batching script on the web
Message-ID: <c2403dab.0403182144.666927f8@posting.google.com>

I all, 

I'd like to make a script that can request pages on the web, put some
information on a web page like login and password, as if I had done it
through a mozilla interface. Through a sery of clic, I'll get a page
that I like to parse to fetch some information. (This must be able to
go through https connection.)

If some one can give me indication how to begin with this, it will be
very helpfull. My main problem is to maitain a session with the
serveur, it's not only a problem to get url, but sequence of "clic"
while keeping a http session open on the server side.

thanks for every suggestion.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Mar 31 07:51:46 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:51:46 -0600
Subject: Creating Charts
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.31.07.23.50.10533@thomas-guettler.de> ("Thomas
	Guettler"'s message of "Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:23:50 +0200")
References: <pan.2004.03.31.07.23.50.10533@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <m2ekr9uql9.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

    Thomas> Hi!  I need to create some simple charts with python.  A
    Thomas> list contains integers between 0 and mymax.

    Thomas> I want to see how the values are distributed (How many are
    Thomas> 0, how many are mymax, ...). The result should be a small
    Thomas> (200x200) png file.

    Thomas> matplotlib: Too much gtk binding (I only need a png) -

The web page may have given this impression, but it's not correct.
matplotlib is totally independent of GTK.  It *can* render to GTK, but
it isn't required.  GTK was the first matplotlib backend and perhaps
this is why is gets so much prominence on the web page.  But now you
can use it with GTK, WX or Tk, or none of the above to simply generate
PNG or PS figures.

To render to PNG w/o a GUI, use the antigrain (agg) backend as
described at http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/backends.html#Agg.

Basically, you just need 

  * Download the src distribution, edit setup.py and set BUILD_AGG =
    True, do a normal setup.py install.

  * Edit the config file to make agg your default backend by setting

      backend      : Agg

    in your matplotlibrc file; see
    http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/.matplotlibrc.  This file should
    be placed in your HOME dir.

Then you can make your small histogram figure as follows

    from matplotlib.matlab import *
    x = someInts   # your data here
    hist(x, 100)   # 100 is the number of histogram bins
    savefig('myfig.png', figsize=(4,4))    # figsize in inches

Hope this helps,
John Hunter



From kirk at strauser.com  Mon Mar 22 16:55:06 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:55:06 GMT
Subject: Decent way to trace resource leaks?
Message-ID: <87r7vk7dnc.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've written a fairly complex application [1] that runs under Windows XP
with ActiveState Python.  I'm reasonably sure that I'm freeing all allocated
resources, but my process seems grow slowly but steadily over time.  Worse,
my network administrator seems to think that it's locking network resources
and not freeing them, and while I don't *think* that's the case, I can't be
certain.

Ideally, I'd like to find a way to dump the process's object hierarchy to
the screen or a file in a tree or graph format.  Even without variable
names, it'd be tremendously helpful to see that there are 87 instances of
Foo objects, each with 20 Bar objects as data members.  Although I'm running
the application on Windows, I'm doing all development on a Linux system
(using Subversion to synchronize source trees across machines, in case
anyone is interested), so I'd prefer something native to Python and not a
Windows-specific GUI debugger.

[1] Said application implements a SOAP interface to Microsoft Access and
FoxPro databases so that the Unix applications I'm writing can query those
systems.
- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAX2Aw5sRg+Y0CpvERArOaAJ4/VdLdqLZzetF4pIu/Gb43vCIX7QCfZq+X
leYooXAV4mW29af/tCcGCp0=
=Kl5V
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 03:45:51 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 00:45:51 -0800
Subject: Python / COM / Word
References: <mailman.224.1079947879.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5cf809e9.0403241936.5fe98316@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0403250045.273b3e9b@posting.google.com>

peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm) wrote in message news:<5cf809e9.0403241936.5fe98316 at posting.google.com>...
> ....
> > >>> w1 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
> ....
> 
> "DispatchEx" is a solution I have long searched for. Thank you very
> much!
> 
> And a question: where do you have the info about DispatchEx from? Does
> there exist a documention for win32com? And if yes: where?

Ah. I don't remember where I found out about it; either on this list
or on the python-win32 mailing list, I expect. Such documentation as
there is for win32com is:

1) The documentation that comes with the pywin32 extensions (in
various forms)
2) In Mark Hammond & Andy Robinson's Python Programming on Win32 (or
something like that)
3) On the python & python-win32 lists
4) On various people's websites

But you probably knew that...

Tim


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Fri Mar 26 23:49:00 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 20:49:00 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
> What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
> use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
> some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
> to be just templates to produce other objects.

Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
"Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)

   Michele Simionato


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Mar  4 15:41:43 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:41:43 +0100
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?
References: <fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c28ajn$1k$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry" <surfunbear at yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:35 PM
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?


> I'm a C++/java programmer and have done a bunch of perl coding.
> I am thinking of maybe learning python. What's a good intro primer, easy
to read
> good examples, understandable, maybe not one of those 2 inch thick books
etc. ?

"Learning Python, Second Edition" by David Ascher and Mark Lutz (1.13
inches) perhaps?

And then, not so much *intro* but absolutely *vital*:

"Python in a Nutshell" by Alex Martelli (1.14 inches)
"Python Cookbook", by Alex Martelli, David Asher (Editors) (1.10 inches)


HTH,
Vincent Wehren






From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar  3 22:33:39 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 14:23:39 +1050
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 02:11:35 GMT, Adonis wrote:
> with my background in Python, giving me the knowledge of OOP I dove
> into Java like a pro, everything came easy to me, I fully understood
> the language, everything was just some clarification and learning the
> syntax (I still dislike Java, but to each its own), so I am writing
> this as a thank you to everyone who contributes to Python.

Python has introduced many students to the benefits of
properly-implemented OOP.  It's good to know that you've got this strong
start.

It may interest you to know that Python's suitability as a language for
teaching programming has long been a conscious goal of the language's
creator, and something with which he actively involves himself:

    <http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5028>
    <http://www.artima.com/intv/pyscale.html>

-- 
 \       "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me |
  `\                                     as members."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 30 16:25:06 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:25:06 -0700
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<258fd9b8.0403301237.60528600@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cvoj60l2nad20bei7pmtgtpu3j6k2fjknf@4ax.com>

On 30 Mar 2004 12:37:25 -0800, magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lyck?)
wrote:

>I don't think you need to worry. AFAIK Python 3 is the mythological
>if-I-could-turn-back-the-clock-and-undo-all-my-mistakes version
>of Python, which Guido probably won't have time to work with 
>until his son is big enough to help him. (He'll be 3 in November.)
>It will have little regard for backward compatibility, and if it
>does appear sooner than expected, you can expect Python 2.x to be
>maintaned in parallel for a long time.

Maybe Prothon will *become* Python 3.0  That could happen quicker than
migrating all the Python libraries to Prothon.  Open source is an
amazing phenomenon!

Nothing like a little kick-in-the-butt competition to stimulate
progress. :>)

-- Dave



From teiffel at attglobal.net  Tue Mar  2 16:24:23 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:24:23 -0500
Subject: Regular expressions help
In-Reply-To: <403BACC5.5060902@advalvas.REMOVEME.be>
References: <6af33541.0402241054.77ae5c61@posting.google.com>	<403ba857$0$1110$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>	<lf30x31q4x40.xnbkp6rqpcsr$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<403BACC5.5060902@advalvas.REMOVEME.be>
Message-ID: <4044FB87.1080804@attglobal.net>

Bernard Delm?e wrote:

>> That one matches the "name george" part of "name georgeharry" as well,
>> which he didn't want.
>
>
> Indeed; my bad. I mostly wanted to mention redemo, for which
> the windows installer should create a shortcut, really...
>
Agreed




From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 23 20:40:07 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:40:07 -0700
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:39:19 GMT, Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

>In article <slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>, Joe Mason wrote:
>> Not a big fan of that syntax - I have to keep the parameter names and
>> types in sync by counting.
>> 
>>     def foo(x [accepts(int)], y [accepts(float)]) [returns(int)]:
>> 
>> is a little better, except now we're getting very verbose.
>> 
>> For decorators in general, I like
>> 
>>     def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:
>>     
>> You get an explicit list syntax, but it's set off by a keyword so they don't
>> run together to the eye.  Because the keyword keeps it unambiguous, you
>> could even allow a tuple instead of a list: "def foo() as (x, y, z)".
>> 
>> So I definitely favour a keyword, but perhaps "as" is to generic.  What
>> about "has" or "with"?

A less generic keyword will lead to odd phrases like "has int" or
"with staticmethod", or different keywords for each phrase.

The problem with using different keywords for each phrase is - after
we get a collection of them, it becomes a problem for beginners to
remember which one to use in each situation.  Even if you try to chose
a keyword which is self-explanatory, a lot of people don't get the
meaning you intended (e.g. 'yield' as in 'produce' rather than 'give
way', 'lambda' as in 'lambda calculus').  What we need is something
short, neutral in meaning, and usable in any situation where you need
to modify an existing syntax, i.e. a symbol.

Re-use of the same symbol to mean "modified syntax" in any context,
will avoid the Perl problem (too many symbols with idiosyncratic
meanings).  Beginners will learn very quickly that the special symbol
means "similar to the standard syntax, but RTFM if you don't yet know
this variation".  Locating the right documentation will be easy,
because it will always be at the end of the discussion on the normal
form of the statement.

I would give an example, but I worry it will degenerate this
discussion into a debate over whether it looks like something bad in
language X.  Let's see if we can discuss this on a higher level first.
Does it make sense to have a general symbol for modifications of the
simple standard syntax?

-- Dave

>Come to think of it, the verbose example with "has" becomes (assuming a
>shorter decorator name):
>
>    def foo(x has sig(int), y has sig(float)) has returns(int):
>
>Since you might not need the full list syntax for a single decorator.
>That's not too bad looking.
>
>(No, I'm not seriously proposing decorators on parameters at this point.)
>
>Joe



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar  6 23:41:14 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:41:14 -0500
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.77.1078607276.19534.python-list@python.org><c2dkjg$1sekvm$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<404A9883.3010407@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <c2e959$bkc$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote in message
news:404A9883.3010407 at stackless.com...
> I have no idea what OP is.

Original Poster.






From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 15 09:40:16 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:40:16 GMT
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2.1079209742.688.python-list@python.org>
	<bri8509bb89euassu0r95su43a4lq4vssb@4ax.com>
	<m3oeqy9t1i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<mailman.19.1079358025.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33c8a9nsg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     >> >I wrote something and threw it up on my Python Bits page:
>     >> >
>     >> >    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/
>     >> 
>     >> I get AttributeErrors when I try the super_reload function. Looks
>     >> like sys.modules has a bunch of items with no '__dict__'.
> 
>     Michael> They'll be None, mostly.
> 
> What's the significance of an entry in sys.modules with a value of None?
> That is, how did they get there and why are they there?

Something to do with packags and things that could have been but
weren't relative imports, I think...

>>> from distutils.core import setup
>>> import sys
>>> for k,v in sys.modules.items():
...  if v is None:
...   print k
... 
distutils.distutils
distutils.getopt
encodings.encodings
distutils.warnings
distutils.string
encodings.codecs
encodings.exceptions
distutils.types
encodings.types
distutils.os
distutils.re
distutils.sys
distutils.copy

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  It's actually a corruption of "starling".  They used to be carried.
  Since they weighed a full pound (hence the name), they had to be
  carried by two starlings in tandem, with a line between them.
                 -- Alan J Rosenthal explains "Pounds Sterling" on asr


From dale at bewley.net  Thu Mar 18 01:22:41 2004
From: dale at bewley.net (Dale Bewley)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:22:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Please confirm your message to dale
In-Reply-To: <20040318062125.3FBDF3EE56@bewley.net>
References: <20040318062125.3FBDF3EE56@bewley.net>
Message-ID: <1079590961.29117.TMDA@bewley.net>

dale has NOT seen your email yet!

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Your message attached below is being held because the address
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From s.meyer at technology-network.de  Wed Mar 17 09:43:44 2004
From: s.meyer at technology-network.de (Sebastian Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:43:44 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
References: <mailman.76.1079518999.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.17.14.43.43.489156@technology-network.de>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:22:47 +0100, Holger Joukl wrote:

> Does the shutdown function get called when you issue the signal?
> How exactly do you handle the event communication in the treads? shutdown
> methods?
> Please post the relevant code.
the shutdown function does not get called, it seems the signal gets lost

the threads shutdown function looks like:

--- CODE ---
# self._done is a threading.Event object
def shutdown(self):
    self._done.set()

> Btw, I am new to python2.x (not new to python, though). This is not working
> code,
> is it?
> threads = {}
> threads["dircheck"] = TimedDirectoryCheck("/tmp/dpf/notify")
> threads["process"] = BatchProcessor()
> # start the threads
> for th in threads:
>     th.start()  # <---- Does that work???
> 
of cource does this work, ... makes life a lot easier and saves up
variable names ... :-))

Sebastian


From kmmcdonald at wisc.edu  Sat Mar 13 02:42:57 2004
From: kmmcdonald at wisc.edu (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:42:57 GMT
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
Message-ID: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>

Now that I'm back to Python and all the new (to me) cool features,
I find I'm using properties a lot, i.e. I'm defining:

	foo = property(fset=..., fget=...)

for a number of properties, in many of my classes. I'm not using
them for anything performance critical yet, but could see myself
doing so in the future. Can anyone comment on the performance
costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?

Thanks,
Ken


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Fri Mar 12 22:50:35 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 14:40:35 +1050
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<7x8yi5wfyd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc552dr.2dq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 12 Mar 2004 20:04:10 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Rather than entering the plaintext password through the passwd
> command, your best bet is for your script to edit /etc/passwd or
> /etc/shadow and replace the new hashed password with the correct one.

No, that makes the increasingly incorrect assumption that the passwords
are stored and accessed via those files.  Many systems use NIS or LDAP
or other protocol-based account table management methods, and the
'passwd' command is often set up to use that method.  Affecting /etc/*
files in such a case would have no effect on the root password.

-- 
 \       "I bought some batteries, but they weren't included; so I had |
  `\                             to buy them again."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From joewong at mango.cc  Wed Mar 24 01:10:43 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:10:43 +0800
Subject: how to detect connection closed by server?
References: <004401c41156$18c17dd0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<40611FB7.19737291@hot.pl>
Message-ID: <00ba01c41166$be5319b0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi Jacek,

  If the server never send some reply back to the client, it is not possible
for the client to determine if the server had actually received the data (
e.g., server called accept() but not calling recv() to read data from
client, then close() the client socket right away ). Am I right? If this is
the case, I can't really rely on the socket function in the client program
to tell if the server has read the data..

Regards,

- Wong

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacek Trzmiel" <sc0rp at hot.pl>
To: "Joe Wong" <joewong at mango.cc>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: how to detect connection closed by server?


>
> Joe Wong wrote:
> > Client:
> > - create socket
> > - connect to port XYZ at server
> > - send some data to server
> > - close the socket
> >
> > The problem I found is that, after the server perform the listen()
> > call, the client program can sucessfully perform connect(), send() and
> > close() on the socket
>
> AFAIR with T/TCP it's entriely possible to open connection, send small
> payload and close connection in one single IP packet.
>
> > even the server process does not perform the
> > accept() and recv() call. Is this a general behaviour of the socket or
> > I am not writing my program properly?
>
> Close only sending part of the socket and then block on read.  It will
> either:
> - report EOF if server accepted and then closed connection without
> sending any data,
> - return some data if server sent it,
> - report some kind of error otherwise.
>
> Best regards,
> Jacek.
>
>




From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar 20 12:38:04 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:38:04 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3gp2v$foi$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
	<c3gp2v$foi$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <405C817C.5010406@stackless.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef at posting.google.com...
> 
...

>>A little hyphen would have made a whole world of difference. The
>>original poster was referring to "class-static variable",
> 
> In Python, that is a meaningless term to me.

Sure, but you knew that the OP was a fresh Python user,
and using terminology of other languages was obvious.
If he knew better, he wouldn't have used this phrasing.
So why not simply explaining the difference in the first place?

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 13:01:35 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:01:35 -0800
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> From this, and other reading on genetic algorithms, I've found that nearly
> all of the applications being developed and used are far 'stronger' than
> what I have in mind. Most critically, the great preponderance of uses
> involve a program that simply modulates a set of given variables in search
> for an answer, rather than modifying the source code itself. Understandably,
> this is because, as stated above, such 'weak' methods are of limited use for
> most problems (I wouldn't want to fly in a plane that had been designed by
> one).

> Since, at the moment, I'm more interested in a 'pet cyber slime' than a tool
> for designing efficient circuit layouts, such 'strong' applications are of
> limited use. Even the 'state space' and 'random search' examples above are
> considerably 'stronger' than I would desire to use.
> For me, the goal is not only to create a program that can find an optimal
> solution to a problem, but which can also find better ways of learning -
> something disallowed by a fixed-algorithm engine.

Take this with a grain of salt, but generally, expecting computers to 
learn is a high expectation.  From neural networks (aka connectionist 
networks), genetic algorithms, naive bayesian statistics, etc., the 
desire in all of these cases is for a system that responds to a certain 
environment, produces some reasonable solutions in this environment, and 
works reasonably well in other environments.

The one limitation of all these approaches is that the algorithms and 
methods for doing this have limited knowledge (usually a few hundred 
bytes of state), no higher-order insight, etc.  The algorithms, when 
given proper input and design, can solve certain problems.  You may get 
lucky and your algorithm/data is applicable to another problem, but 
those situations are the rare exception, rather than the rule.

These 'learning' methods do the best when applied to what you have shown 
is called 'strong' problems.  The 'weak' problems I've seen worked on, 
generally had weak (read poor) results.  The stronger your problem, the 
better results you will likely have.


> There's a lot of other interesting stuff on this site, but it'll take a
> while to examine it all, and it'll be quite a while more before I have the
> time to start on Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science". One question
> though - can I, indeed, create, modify, run and save files using just a
> python script?

Don't think of Python as a scripting language.  It can be used that way, 
but Python has better built-in data structures and language features 
than the most used languages out there (C, C++ and Java).

Can you create a file?  Certainly, open a file for writing that didn't 
previously exist...
   file_for_writing = open('filename', 'wb')

Can you modify a file?  Certainly, open a file for reading and updating 
that exists...
   file_for_updating_in_place = open('filename', 'r+b')

Want to run a file?  (be careful though, executing the contents of a 
file can be dangerous)...
   fil = open('filename', 'rb')
   contents = fil.read()
   fil.close()
   exec(contents)

Want to save a file?
   fil = open('filename', 'wb')
   fil.write("some string of what you want to write")
   fil.close()


  - Josiah


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 08:47:32 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:47:32 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <406826CA.6070107@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<4067C167.5050708@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40681B2B.2080106@stackless.com>
	<406826CA.6070107@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <406828F4.2020103@stackless.com>

Michael wrote:

> 
>> I think there are enough editors available to be able
>> to use one with fixed font.
> 
> 
> Exactly. I'd say the same thing about the problem with tabs. If your 
> editor has some weird issue with tabs then fix it or use a different 
> editor. It seems a bit odd to me that it's an issue at all.
> 
>> worse: you can lose indentation and totally mess up
>> The problems with mixed tabs and spaces are even
>>
>> You gave the best example by yourself: Use different editors,
>> even with fixed fonts, and you will wonder how they try
>> to "optimize" your tabs. Some try to help you with the indentation,
>> but they use tabs, even if you are not aware of it.
>> I don't say it is a hard problem. But it is an extra complication
>> which consumes a reasonable amount of Python code to check/repair,
>> like tabnanny.
> 
> 
> Why should an editor change anything in your program at all unless you 
> tell it to? If it's changing tabs to spaces or vice versa then it sucks. 
> If I want something optimized I'll enter a command telling it to do so. 
> Otherwise hands off.

If you are on anyone's machine, maybe some Linux server, and
you don't find time to install an editor, then you use vim
for instance, and it depends on its configuration how it
handles Python code. Some indent for you the wrong way.
You have no choice if you are fixing something in a hurry.

...

> A tab is a tab. This sounds like adding complexity in the effort to 
> avoid complexity. If your editors are broken then stop using them.

I make my living by using several editors on several machines,
all the time. 95 % is ok, but it often comes to situations where
I have to hack "that code on this machine right now", and the user
won't give me the rights or the time to fine-tune my editor
environment.
There is also no choice of "hands-off". The customer wants me
to handle such minor problems as "the expert".
This is no matter of choice but daily practice :-)
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From bassw at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 15:07:55 2004
From: bassw at hotmail.com (Bas)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 12:07:55 -0800
Subject: use  -> instead of lambda??
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8fe46d4f.0403121207.30dd56d3@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5 at 4ax.com>...
> Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
> break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python, is
> easy to type, easy to read, and is clearly distinct from the "base"
> syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
> situations.  Examples:
> [...]
> @x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function
> [...]
> It certainly beats adding ugly statements like 'lambda'.

Couldn't we use -> instead??

This wouldn't introduce the the @ symbol (currently forbidden??), but
only uses symbols that are already used. It is thus just another
operator. The -> symbol is already used a lot in the help strings, so
why not use it in the language also?? Maple (symbolic math program)
also uses -> for anonymous functions.


From biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca  Tue Mar  9 16:28:53 2004
From: biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca (biner)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 13:28:53 -0800
Subject: installing PIL without jpeg?
Message-ID: <b82e5469.0403091328.751f4392@posting.google.com>

Hello,
  following a question about getting the size of a gif image, a good
soul (thank you Skip) adised me to install PIL in order to do so.

  I am trying do do make the installation on an IRIX platform as a
user. I did as told in the readme and used the configure script with
the --prefixe=dir with dir pointing to a directory of my own. I got an
error message in the "make" process when the JpegDecode.c was compiled
because jpeglib.h was not found.  I tried to use configure with the
--without-jpeg flag but the Makefile doesn't change.

  I tried to look in the configure script in order to get the jpeg
related object ou of the list which is put in the Makefile but I have
a (very) hard time making any sense of the configure script.

  Is there a simple way to install PIL without the jpeg library?

Thanks.


From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar  3 14:01:10 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:01:10 GMT
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
References: <mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403030526.728de57b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3brnd21sa.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

[virus]

> > it's not from anyone at python.org, and the zip file attached contains a
> > Windows virus.  But if you run it anyway, I'm sure Guido will be happy to
> > fly to your house and clean up your PC.
> > 
> > it's-the-least-he-could-do-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
> I have got today a very similar message, but from my University provider.

I got a dozen or so, all claiming to be from the 'ac.uk' email
organizers, a bug that the author needs to fix in the next version...

> I don't think SpamAssassin could have filtered it. The spammers are
> evolving and becoming smarter and smarter, I fear the day they will
> be able to pass the Turing tests and we will be no more able to
> distinguish automatically generated spam from real e-mail ....

Uh, not quite there yet in my email (unless you habitually get email
with subjects like "comedian gordon sideband numinous climatic").

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I also feel it essential to note, [...], that Description Logics,
  non-Monotonic Logics, Default Logics and Circumscription Logics 
  can all collectively go suck a cow. Thank you.
              -- http://advogato.org/person/Johnath/diary.html?start=4


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 12 07:56:53 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 13:56:53 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <tyfbrn25ilm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:

> Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> > How do I force static typing in Python?
> 
> You have to enforce it by code instead of declaration, i.e. you
> have to do runtime type checking.

Just what do you understand "static typing" to mean ?


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Tue Mar 30 08:50:39 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:50:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4btvf$dcg$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Fuzzyman <michael at foord.net> wrote:
> I may be about to get flamed as some heretic against the ancient
> way..... but if assignment in conditional statements isn't
> possible.... why do we need to use '==' instead of just '=' for if and
> while statements ?

> It's possible there are places where the interpreter could fail to
> understand it, but I haven't found them yet. If there *aren't* any
> situations where one could be confused for the other... then it's not
> needed and is annoying :-)

a = b = c
a = b == c


From srn at fn.com.au  Fri Mar 19 15:11:28 2004
From: srn at fn.com.au (Stephen Robert Norris)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:11:28 GMT
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:12:03 +0100, Yannick Patois wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> 
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>> "Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
>>>Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python lost
>>>class static variables values.
>> Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
>> mean.
> 
> As you're so smart and you read the following, how do you call 'a' in 
> class A ?
> That's what I want to qualify.
>

There's no need to be hostile. I'd call it a class variable. It's
certainly not static in any sense of the word I'd use.
 
>>>The value 1 obtained as expected (A.a is a static value and keept as
>> such).
>> Given that you rebound A.a to 1 from None, I especially do not know
>> what you mean.
> 
> I dont understand.

You explicitly construct the A instance with 1, so what do you expect to
happen? A.a is set to None as a class variable, then changed to 1 by the
constructor.

> 
>>>If now I just *rename* file B to B.1, without any change in the code
>>>(except name='B' become name='B.1' in aTest.py), content of B.1.py file
>>>being exacty the same as content of B.py, I get:
>> 
>> As you seem to be aware, Python expects modules to have a 'nice' name
>> consisting of
>> legal_Python_indentifier.py.
> 
> Which are ? Where to find this info ?

Check the Python Reference Manual.

> 
>>  If you evade this, you are a bit on your own
>> and may run into untested corner cases.
> 
> Untested area contains bugs, that's why it's interesting to test them.

The only potential bug here is that perhaps python should have raised an
error when the import happened.

> To me, that's look to be a bug.
> 
> 	Yannick

I think the bug is in how you understand Python, not in python.

	Stephen


From craigmnet at REMOVEcow.physics.wisc.edu  Fri Mar 12 17:40:46 2004
From: craigmnet at REMOVEcow.physics.wisc.edu (Craig Markwardt)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 16:40:46 -0600
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<7xoer1ls3j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c2t87m$ajn$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <on4qstn0y9.fsf@cow.physics.wisc.edu>


Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > If they have changed the root password on their machine, then the old
> > root password in your script won't work on that machine.
> > 
> > Find another way to do what you're asking.
> 
> Well, it works. They change the password and the script changes it 
> back... try it yourself on Mac OSX 10.3.x, before claiming it doesn't work.

If you can run as root, or even if not, why not simply check
/etc/passwd for changes to the root account.  And mail a notification
to whoever, if it changed.  And it's less overbearing.  More
dangerously, one could attempt to rewrite that entry in /etc/passwd,
but that sounds like a recipe for eventual disaster.

Craig

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig B. Markwardt, Ph.D.      EMAIL: craigmnet at REMOVEcow.physics.wisc.edu
Astrophysics, IDL, Finance, Derivatives | Remove "net" for better response
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Mar 12 12:57:49 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:57:49 -0600
Subject: UNC paths in file object open
References: <4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <TdKdnTg8_7W8Z8zdRVn-vA@comcast.com>

Graham,

path=r"\\servername\sharr\folder\file.ext"

works on my machine (I use it all the time).

Remember that backslash is an "escape" character so
you must us r"<path>" or double the number of backslashes
without the "r":

path="\\\\servername\\share\\folder\\file.ext"

-Larry Bates


"Graham" <gsmith at oxfam.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944 at reading.news.pipex.net...
> I ma trying to open a file on a network share
>
> ie \\servername\share\folder\file
>
> afile = open( \\server\share\folder\file, "r" )
>
> have also tried
> afile = open( //server/share/folder/file, "r" ) # as per the Python
cookbook
> advice on page 113 namely " use / regardless of the proclivities of the
> underlying operating system".
>
> Neither work.
>
> I am running python on XP and accessing win 2000 share.
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Graham Smith
>
> PeopleSoft Technical Team Leader
> OXFAM GB
> +44 (1865) 313255
> gsmith at oxfam.org.uk
>
>
>




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Mon Mar  1 07:59:23 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:59:23 +0100
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
In-Reply-To: <c1qk0j$9o5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<40408c29$0$2435$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<c1qk0j$9o5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <c1vc1u$2na$1@swifty.westend.com>

Bart Nessux schrieb:
>>The only points I see in favor of PHP are :
>>- it's a de facto standard, widely used, widely available, and well
>>established
> 
> 
> That's exactly right. That's my point. I meant nothing more.

That's ALL? No preference for specific PHP issues that makes you
choose/recommend it over Python? If youre "stupidity" posting has
anything to do with logic then I must conclude that you consider
everbody who doesn't use the de facto standard (choosing e.g. Linux
over Windows, Python over Perl) bordering on stupidity.

Strange, to say the least.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Mar  5 13:35:40 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:35:40 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VL32c.1435$kc2.23798@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

jon c wrote:
> if you try and execute the command directly from bat you get the error 
> input line too long!
> 
> can perl be somehow bypassing the windows terminal and running the 
> command directly (does this make sense?)

system uses the shell, even with Perl (in Perl it actually depends on 
what are the parameters).  But the shell can be bypassed, so I guess 
this is a shell limit.

Like said Peter, we need to know:
- How is it called in Perl.
- How is it called in Python, and do you have the same problem by using 
popen.

Regards,
Nicolas



From davidjtaylor at optushome.com.au  Fri Mar 26 00:45:05 2004
From: davidjtaylor at optushome.com.au (sydneyguru)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:45:05 +1100
Subject: Newbie trying to use HTTPS, pls help
Message-ID: <4063c33b$0$3953$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Hi,
I think the sockets module has not been compiled for ssl. That's my guess at
why this won't work...
Can anyone suggest a better way..

set up params & headers
...
>>> conn = httplib.HTTPSConnection("betting.sports555.com") // imaginary url
>>> conn.request("POST", "/cgi-bin/login", params, headers)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
    conn.request("POST", "/cgi-bin/login", params, headers)
  File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 701, in request
    self._send_request(method, url, body, headers)
  File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 723, in _send_request
    self.endheaders()
  File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 695, in endheaders
    self._send_output()
  File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 581, in _send_output
    self.send(msg)
  File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in send
    self.connect()
  File "D:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 945, in connect
    ssl = socket.ssl(realsock, self.key_file, self.cert_file)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'ssl'
>>>

cheers,

sydneyguru





From nospam at nowhere.hu  Mon Mar 15 14:08:53 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.hu (Miklós)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:08:53 +0100
Subject: INTRANET zope
References: <c32rlm$akq$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <c34ul1$qid$1@namru.matavnet.hu>


"Andrzej Mleczko" <amleczko at icpnet.pl> wrote in message
news:c32rlm$akq$1 at topaz.icpnet.pl...
> Hi
> I'm searching for an open-source, free Intranet solutions in Zope.
>
>
This post doesn't make any sense... Almost any "Zope solution" is
open-sourced. (You components, right?) And certainly all of them are
"Intranet solutions"

Pm




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 17:47:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:47:38 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
>>[Ed Cogburn]
>>>I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled
>>>around some and read some programming language websites but I have yet
>>>to find a language similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.
>>>[...] Is there such a thing?
>>
>>What is your real need?  Why do you consider important to compile
>>something to an executable binary?  The goal is executing a program
>>written in Python, or Python-like language, isn't it?
> 
> I really don't think why he needs it is necessary to answer this
> question: he stated what he wanted clearly enough.  And I would say
> questioning his need for a complied language is quite presumptuous.

Presumptuous?  Hardly.  It's a very valid question to ask.

By asking for "a compiled language like Python", Ed is making the common 
mistake of specifying a solution without identifying what his 
requirements are.  We are simply trying to identify what his real needs 
are so that we can give him a useful answer, along the lines of, say, 
"use py2exe for easier packaging" if that were his goal.

Also, although I don't think this is a problem Ed has, some people are 
confused about interpreted versus compiled and such things.  It's just 
possible that someone asking such a question has an incorrect 
understanding of how programs work, and thus asked a "wrong question" 
innocently.

-Peter


From adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 15:17:32 2004
From: adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com (Adelein and Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:17:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
Message-ID: <20040331201732.86453.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks again for all of the feedback.

(JH)> My second comment was that it is not necessary to explicitly
(JH)> exit the program with 'sys.exit()'.

I was aware of this, but it is a bad habit of mine (philosopher's
disease?) to state the obvious even if it has already been stated
elsewhere (when the interpreter terminates process and exits,
right?). sys.exit() is only necessary for properly terminating event
loops, is that correct?

(JH)> I am impressed with the way you followed up on this.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this (how else would I have done
so?), but thank you.

>> In fact, I did intend to have 0 as the first element. My thinking
>> is thus: the first entry in the fortunes file is not preceded by a
>> '%', and therefore will not be found by the code that follows
>> unless I include 0 as one of the possible fp values. I do not know
>> perl, and am not an experienced programmer, so in thinking that
>> this was the reason for ESR's similar use, I may be proceeding
>> from a position of ignorance.
>  
(PO)> I think you're right again.

I am right about the first element needing to be zero, xor that I am
proceeding from a position of ignorance? :-)

(PO)> A wrong error message may be worse than no error message.
(PO)> Consider
(PO)> 
(PO)> try:
(PO)>    fi = open(fortune_file)
(PO)> except:
(PO)>     sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)
(PO)> 
(PO)> That might mislead you to look for problems with the file while
(PO)> it's just an ordinary spelling error.

I see your point, I think. I am understanding that I should simply
exit upon IOError exception, with no error message at all, so that an
user is not led to believe that the file may be corrupt when in fact
it may not exist, or the filename passed was misspelled, etc. - this
point is good to keep in mind for all error messages, I will add it
to my thinking.

(PO)> You can think of seek() for a readonly file as positioning a
(PO)> pointer to the start of the next read() operation. As no more
(PO)> reads will follow, such a repositioning is useless.

...And therefore inefficient....

(JH)> Repositioning the file pointer is not necessary, this pointer
(JH)> just vanishes when you close the file anyway.

...So I correctly understood the comments on this subject. Thank you.

(PO)> As you can see from Mel Wilson's code, 
(PO)> 3) it also greatly simplifies your program, which means it will
(PO)> be less errorprone and take less time to write and less time to
(PO)> understand for others. Also, I expect it to be the fastest for
(PO)> small files - and the size so called "small" files is still
(PO)> growing fast these days.
(PO)> 
(PO)> Yes, Mel's approach is the least scalable (it keeps the whole
(PO)> file), followed by yours (keeps a list of positions for every
(PO)> items). Mine is best in that regard :-), because it only keeps
(PO)> two items (reducing that to one is left as an exercise...) at
(PO)> any time. But if you really need performance and many entries,
(PO)> I'd guess that putting the items into a database would defeat
(PO)> them all.

So, Mel's version for small files (which applies 99% of the time to
fortune files), mine to show how Perl transforms into Python
statement-by-statement, and yours (once I get a handle on it) for
'production' use.
 
> Also, what is 'tr' in the arguments list for file()? I looked up
> file() in the library reference and it doesn't mention t - only a,
> b, r, w, +, and U. A typo, or something I am unaware of?
(PO)>
(PO)> t translates "\r\n" to "\n" on windows. I think this is
(PO)> superseded by "U" these days, which guarantees "\n" as newline
(PO)> on windows, unix and mac alike.

I thought that the conversion of newline/carriage return sequences
was automatic as long as files are not read in under binary mode. Is
that not the case? I still find no mention of t in the ref
(http://python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-25). Is it
platform dependent, or am I looking at the wrong docref?

> The randomization in findfortune() is interesting and would never
> have occurred to me. The problem with it (as I see it - I could be
> wrong) is that it results in a sub-pseudo random choice, as I can
> easily imagine that entries towards the end of a large file will be
> much less likely to be chosen due to the randomizer being applied
> not to a set but to each element of the set, and because a positive
> for any element means that none of the following elements are
> considered for randomization, the result could well be that some
> entries will effectively never be chosen.
(PO)>
(PO)> You are getting this wrong. I hoped to evade the explanation by
(PO)> providing the reference, but now I'll give it a try. You can
(PO)> prove the right outcome by induction, but I'll resort to "proof
(PO)> by example" for now. Let's consider a small sample
(PO)>
(PO)> for index, item in enumerate(["a", "b", "c", "d"]):
(PO)>     if random() < (1.0/(index+1)):
(PO)>         chosen = item
(PO)> 
(PO)> random() yields a floating point number 0 <= n < 1.0
(PO)> 
(PO)> Now let's unroll the loop:
(PO)> 
(PO)> if random() <1.0/1 : chosen = "a" #index is 0, item is "a"
(PO)> if random() <1.0/2 : chosen = "b" #index is 1, item is "b"
(PO)> if random() <1.0/3 : chosen = "c" #index is 2, item is "c"
(PO)> if random() <1.0/4 : chosen = "d" #index is 3, item is "d"
(PO)> 
(PO)> The probability for the if branches to be executed is thus
(PO)> decreasing: 1, 0.5, 0.33, 0.25. Now look at it backwards: The
(PO)> chance that d is chosen is 0.25, the total probability for a,
(PO)> b, or c is then 1-0.25 = 0.75. When we now look at the first
(PO)> three lines only, we see immediately that the chance for c is
(PO)> one third. 1/3 of 75 percent is again 0.25. The remaining
(PO)> probability for a and b is then p(a or b) = 1 - p(c) - p(d) =
(PO)> 0.5. Now look at the first two lines only to distribute the
(PO)> total probability of 0.5 over a and b. Do you see the pattern?

Yes, and I am sorry about that - I did not understand your example as
well as I thought I did, and I totally missed the link you included -
lucky I didn't delete that email. What you are saying is
crystal-clear to me, but I need to really go over it to comprehend it
fully. In any case, I see that the probabilities do not work out as I
thought.

> This is a very interesting solution in light of point (b), but of
> course I will always know the size of the set as long as it comes
> from a file. 
(PO)> 
(PO)> Again, you have to build a list of positions, with size
(PO)> proportional to the file, I only keep the last fortune item,
(PO)> essentially constant size.

Point noted. I had missed it, obviously.

> As for point (a), in the case that the last entry of a
> file is chosen, wouldn't the whole file then have been in memory at
> the same time, or do values returned by generators die right after
> their use? 
(PO)> 
(PO)> That is up to the garbage collection; I'm working with the
(PO)> assumption that unreachable data, i. e. previously read lines
(PO)> are garbage-collected in a timely manner.

So in theory, they die. I am a complete newb as regards generators
(and many, many other things) - I am incapable of explaining them to
those who do not know what they are. Now I am one step closer to
being able to do so.

(PO)> The operating system and Python may both perform some caching
as
(PO)> they see fit, but conceptually (and practically at least for
(PO)> large files - they can still be larger than your RAM after all)
(PO)> they are *not* read into memory.

So ``creating a file object'' is not the best terminology (? -
because creating other objects puts all of their attributes in a
defined memory space) - instead, I am creating an object with access
to a specific file (and of course, with methods to work on that
file)?

- Jeremy
adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From shifflett at nps.navy.mil  Fri Mar 19 13:58:12 2004
From: shifflett at nps.navy.mil (D. Shifflett)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 10:58:12 -0800
Subject: Select on Win XP
References: <da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f@posting.google.com>
	<c3b2dc$bt7$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <da4423a8.0403191058.607eb8b@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3b2dc$bt7$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> [snip description]
> > Hoepfully I am doing something wrong on the Win system.
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> [snip code]
> 
> I checked the raw socket code on my machine and didn't have any issues. 
>   You should check:
> ...
> def button_cb(button):
>      my_sock.sendto(data, (SERVERADDR, SERVERPORT))
> ...
> with a print statement to make sure that is actually getting called.
> 
>   - Josiah
Hi,
Thanks for your response.
Yep, I have checked that.
I am running tcpdump, and can see the packet go out
and the response come back.
The python program also dumps the packet
but only after two packets have been sent
does select() return and I can read the first response packet.

Any other ideas why select() is hanging?

David Shifflett


From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Wed Mar 24 01:21:03 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:21:03 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <c3r2vq$3ci$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<c3r2vq$3ci$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <jN98c.13979$JB2.2819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> 
>> This would be easy to implement with Mersenne Twister too.  Though it 
>> would involve some rewriting.
>>
>> Do you think this is worthwhile?
> 
> 
> I don't know, but I'm leaning towards not really.
> 
>     def getrandstring(self, n):
>         out = [struct.pack('>L', self.getrandbits(32)) \
>                for i in xrange(0, n, 4)]
>         out.extend([chr(self.getrandbits(4)) for i in xrange(n%4)])
>         return ''.join(out)
> 
> You have your getrandstring for any class that provides getrandbits, and 
> is relatively optimized to deal with very long output strings.

If the generator is something like /dev/urandom or Win32's 
CryptGenRandom, you don't want the repeated system call overhead of 
dipping into it 32 bits at a time.

(I made the mistake of getting a byte at a time out of CryptGenRandom 
once, for a few hundred bytes of RSA padding, and it was a big 
performance hit).


>     def getrandbits(self, n):
>         out = 0
>         for i in xrange(0, n+16, 16):
>             out = out << 16 + struct.unpack('>H', self.getrandstring(2))
>     return out >> (16-(n%16))
> 
> Now you have getrandbits for any method that provides getrandstring,

But you don't need getrandbits().

Let's distinguish between the API and the SPI (service provider 
interface).  API is what users access, and the SPI is what new 
generators implement.

I argue that getrandstring() makes more sense than getrandbits() in both 
the API and SPI.

In the API, getrandstring() could be used for cryptographic keys, for 
example.  In contrast, getrandbits() is not a useful API function, since 
the API already offers randint().

As for the SPI, currently there is random() and getrandbits().  These 
require every new generator to be able to produce floats and 
arbitrary-sized longs.

Most generators are oriented towards producing strings of bits or bytes 
(M-T produces a sequence of 32-bit values, for example), so it would be 
easier for them to implement getrandstring() and let the base class 
handle conversion.


> On a relatively unrelated note, I'm leaning toward trying to get the 
> benefits of both SHA and MT with the following, though I lack the heavy 
> mathematical background to prove whether it is better than either.

I agree with Paul, there's no need to combine them.  The only benefit of 
MT vs. a SHA-based generator is speed.

Trevor


From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Thu Mar 25 17:27:28 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:27:28 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
	<ltSdnejduc5-df3dRVn-uA@speedfactory.net>
	<l2a260lj050pch3sq57vfp29rsq099tgp9@4ax.com>
	<C-udnUFjGsp-PPzd4p2dnA@speedfactory.net>
	<vho3609it1bc3nnqui3e5ii8e3kupgl0c2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6ZSdneDuMJpMwf7d4p2dnA@speedfactory.net>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:vho3609it1bc3nnqui3e5ii8e3kupgl0c2 at 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:57:35 -0500, "Michael A. Covington"
> <look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address> wrote:
>
> >WN16 is WordNet 1.6, from Princeton University, basically a huge synonym
> >dictionary of English.  They are up to version 2.0 now and it's much
better
> >behaved.  The open-source community is _finally_ learning something about
> >how Windows works.  For a while there, inept Windows configuration seemed
to
> >be a point of pride with some kinds of free software tools!
>
> I believe the problem lies with Microsoft for obfuscating the
> installation process.  As good as they have done with usability for
> the typical office user, they seem to have a deliberate strategy of
> making things more complex than they need to be at the system level.
> The registry is a prime example.  Another is the monolithic
> integration of the desktop with the OS.  There are many such examples.
> It's all part of the Lock In Strategy of software development.

I think the real problem here is simply that WordNet 1.6 was *old*.  It
smacked of Windows 3, which has much less orderly installation methods than
we have nowadays.




From ashot at REMOVETHISmolsoft.com  Tue Mar  2 04:47:09 2004
From: ashot at REMOVETHISmolsoft.com (Ashot)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:47:09 -0600
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opr38asvblkzsauq@localhost>

On 1 Mar 2004 17:48:17 -0800, poiboy <bitbucket at safe-mail.net> wrote:

> Look at taglist.vim (links below), a popular souce-browsing Vim
> script. It's the only major script I'm using right now. I don't know
> of any definitive Python calltips available for Vim (I assume they
> would be difficult with flexible parameters and return values), but
> taglist.vim provides function prototypes in the form of parameter
> lists (search for 'prototype' in the taglist docs).
>
> I've tried a few nifty Python-specific scripts (search www.vim.org)
> but always wound up forgetting the special commands and resorting to
> Vim staples. For example, the following two lines in my .vimrc were
> good enough to condense all the functions and classes in a file:
>
>     set foldmethod=indent
>     set foldnestmax=2
>
> My .vimrc also includes this "execute code and output results in new
> buffer" script (which should all be on one line):
>
>     map <F4> :w<CR>:let @a = system('`which python` ' .
> bufname('%'))<CR>:silent botright new output<CR>:silent normal "aP<CR>
>
> Normally I use GVim next to a terminal window tabbed with IPython
> (ipython.scipy.org/) and a browser tabbed with whatever documentation
> I may need - Python docs, RFCs, and project docs
> (epydoc.sourceforge.net/). IPython helps access the nitty-gritty
> aspects of Python, Epydoc allows me to browse documentation and
> package structures elegantly. And though I am by no means a Python
> guru, I've posted a screenshot of my "modular IDE" in action (link
> below).
>
> I went through a do-it-all-in-Vim stage and left feeling as though I
> had just spent too much time playing with my tool. Keeping a browser
> and terminal open all the time anyway, I eventually dismissed the
> all-in-one paradigm as some quixotic jab at Emacs.
>
> Happy vimmings,
> poiboy
>
> taglist.vim
> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=273
>
> exuberant ctags
> http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
>
> screenshot
> http://aonalu.makahavalley.org/img/gvim_konq_ipython.png (197K,
> 1600x1200)
> Check out the function prototype on the bottom of GVim's window.

very nice.


-- 
Ashot Petrosian
University of Texas at Austin, Computer Science


From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Mar  3 03:39:02 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:39:02 +0100
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403022111.1a2928b7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
	<30260531.0403022111.1a2928b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <404599A6.3050206@ghaering.de>

simo wrote:
> I'd like to know too - I had a play with psychog but couldn't get it
> to connect, and couldn't find any documentation for it.
> 
> I don't have a huge amount of PostgreSQL knowledge (more of a MySQL
> person myself) so I could have it setup wrong, but I couldn't figure
> anything out as the error message was useless (something about IDENT
> user).

It's a PostgreSQL question, really. It sounds like the user account you're trying 
to connect to the database from doesn't have the necessary permissions. I can 
hardly imagine that a copy-and-paste strategy of the exact error message into 
Google wouldn't have led you further ;-)

-- Gerhard



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar  5 02:27:26 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:27:26 -0800
Subject: Some language proposals.
In-Reply-To: <tyfad31asre.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <slrnc3mss6.pob.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<tyfwu6bmfhx.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1iuj5$7q3$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<tyfoermmgp7.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1l1au$nn4$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<tyfvfltaqkb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c1rn19$p6r$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<tyfad31asre.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c29aa6$5tj$1@news.service.uci.edu>

[snip classes not behaving like class instances]

I see.  You are not happy with the fact that instances of some other 
class, with a __call__ method are not considered a bound instance 
method.  I'm sure you have thought of it, but I would wrap it.  It may 
take another function call, but really, what other functionality do you 
need that the below does not provide?

Give the below a shot.

  - Josiah

class callee:
     def __call__(s, self, *args):
         print self

def instance(self, *args):
     print self

def wrapper(self, *args):
     print self
     self._c(self, *args)

class caller:
     pass

caller.instance_method = instance
caller.instance_method2 = wrapper
foo = caller()
caller._c = callee()

foo.instance_method()
foo.instance_method2()
foo.instance_method
foo.instance_method2


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 17 11:33:18 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:33:18 -0500
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com><4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c39ukb$4s1$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403170657.5c81a456 at posting.google.com...
> That definition doesn't seem to fully specify equality of list values:
> to determine whether s==w, I first note that they both have length 2
> and both have 1 as their first element, the second element of s is a
> pointer to s, the second element of w is a two-element list, with
> first element 1 and second element a pointer to w. So now I have to
> determine whether s is equal to the two element list with first
> element 1 and second element a pointer to w. They both have two
> elements, they both share the first element 1, the second element of s
> is a pointer to s, the second element of the other list is a pointer
> to w. Now I'm back where I started: I have to test whether s==w. So
> the definition in the language reference is circular and both
> conclusions s==w and s!=w are consistent with it. I hope that the
> actual result received, i.e. s==w, is not implementation dependent?

You could try old versions if you have access back far enough ;-).

I vaguely remember a discussion on PyDev list, some years ago, of
'equality' of infinite recursive structures.  I believe there was a change
in the direction of simplicity and robustness to the current algorithm from
a more ambitious algorithm that might have detected s != w -- but which
sometimes had problems.  For dicts at least, a finite printout (instead of
infinite looping requiring a keyboard interrupt) is an innovation since
1.4.

Terry J. Reedy






From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar 13 03:47:59 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:47:59 +0100
Subject: typecasting: a string object to a dictionary object
References: <mailman.344.1079154269.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4052cab0$0$15636$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Here are some examples of how to sort a dictionary.

Now If you first want to convert a string to a dictionary and after sorting
back to a string, why do the converting.
A dictionary is of the Mapping Types, which are by default unsorted. To sort
a dictionary is unnatural behavior for Python. Much easier to sort a tuple
or list. if you convert your string to a list or tupple you can just use
mystr.sort() and you are done.
If you intend to use the dictionary as a dictionary it's ok but otherwise
don't do it.

#  the simplest approach:
def sortedDictValues1(adict):
    items = adict.items()
    items.sort()
    return [value for key, value in items]

# an alternative implementation, which
# happens to run a bit faster for large
# dictionaries on my machine:
def sortedDictValues2(adict):
    keys = adict.keys()
    keys.sort()
    return [dict[key] for key in keys]

# a further slight speed-up on my box
# is to map a bound-method:
def sortedDictValues3(adict):
    keys = adict.keys()
    keys.sort()
    return map(adict.get, keys)

def sort_by_value(d):
    """ Returns the keys of dictionary d sorted by their values """
    items=d.items()
    backitems=[ [v[1],v[0]] for v in items]
    backitems.sort()
    backitems.reverse()
    return [ backitems[i][1] for i in range(0,len(backitems))]

-- 
Cherez,

Ivo.
http://IvoNet.nl
"Life is like a nose.. You have to get out of it what's in it!"
"dont bother" <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.344.1079154269.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
> Thanks! Just one more favour.
> I want to sort the entries on this new dictionary.
> (Increasing order) and convert it back to a string
> where each values are not separated by , but by space.
>
> ie. for example: I have a string s of the form
> index: value, index: value, index: value
>
> I converted it to a dictionary by the method you
> suggested. I want to sort the entries now, with
> increasing order of index.
>
> Once I have the sorted dictionary, I want to convert
> it back to a string of the form
>
> 1 index:value index:value index:value
>
>
> Note, that 1 is added because I am creating feature
> vectors of the type "spam". index: value pairs are now
> separated by space instead of comma and finally I want
> to write this to a file.
>
> The whole notion of making a string to a dictionary
> was because of sorting.
>
> Can you extend this piece of code for the above
> objective. I will indeed be very grateful to you.
>
>
> import string
>
> # define a test string
> s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
> # get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
> s1 = s1[1:-1]
> # split string at the commas
> s2 = string.split(s1,',')
> mydict = {}
> for item in s2:
>         a,b = string.split(item,":")
>         mydict[a] = b
>         print mydict[a]
> print "Dictionary is: ", mydict
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Dont
>
>
> --- midtoad <stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org> wrote:
> > dont bother wrote:
> >
> > > I have a string:
> > >
> > > feature_vector. It is of the form
> > > <index: value, index: value, index: value>
> > >
> > > I want to make this string into a dictionary so
> > that I
> > > can apply .keys() method
> >
> > okay, here's a solution, assuming that your < and >
> > are part of the string.
> > If not, remove the line where you take a slice.
> > I'm sure that there are
> > more Pythonic solutions, but this works...
> >
> > ---
> > import string
> >
> > # define a test string
> > s1 = "<name1: value1, name2: value2, name3: value3>"
> > # get rid of the < and > by taking a slice
> > s1 = s1[1:-1]
> > # split string at the commas
> > s2 = string.split(s1,',')
> > mydict = {}
> > for item in s2:
> >         a,b = string.split(item,":")
> >         mydict[a] = b
> >         print mydict[a]
> > print "Dictionary is: ", mydict
> > ---
> >
> > cheers
> > Stewart
> >
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>




From faheem at email.unc.edu  Mon Mar 15 12:21:41 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:21:41 GMT
Subject: creating array of python objects
References: <slrnc594jv.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<mailman.4.1079293083.682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc5bpg9.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:37:36 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> I don't believe that numarray supports arrays of Python objects.
> The list of Numarray types doesn't list them:
> http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/numarray-0.9.html/node21.html#tab:type-specifiers
>
> This is the meaning of the "not a numeric type" message.
>
> Using numpy, you can create an array of PyObjects where each entry is a
> reference to the same cell object:
>     >>> class cell:
>     ...     def setrow(self,row):
>     ...         self.row = row
>     ...     def setcol(self,col):
>     ...         self.col = col
>     ... 
>     >>> empcell = cell()
>     >>> a = Numeric.reshape([empcell]*4, (2,2))
>     >>> a[0][0].setrow(10)
>     >>> a[1][1].row         # because they are the same object
>     10

Is a[0,0] equivalent to a[0][0]? It is a slightly more compact representation.

> If you want distinct objects, you'll have to use
>     >>> a = Numeric.reshape([cell() for i in range(4)], (2,2))

Thanks.                                                         Faheem.


From bogus at bogus.net  Wed Mar 10 20:29:54 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:29:54 GMT
Subject: Tips on calling Matlab from Python
Message-ID: <miP3c.81578$OH4.70843@fe2.texas.rr.com>

I've spent the past day or so working through the various complexities in
calling Matlab routines from Python (please do not reply with suggestions to
use Numpy/Scipy/etc. - our customer is using Matlab, and I needed to learn
how to access it through COM).

Matlab's COM API is actually pretty clean/simple, but there are a few
wrinkles, some undocumented "magic strings", and some odd surprises.  Also,
the Matlab COM API was designed for lesser languages that do not have
built-in support for complex data.  So I captured my usage notes, a simple
wrapper class, and some test code, to simplify this task.

You can find my notes at
http://www.geocities.com/ptmcg/python/using_matlab_from_python.html.

HTH,
-- Paul McGuire




From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Mar  5 05:00:16 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 05:00:16 EST
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mdvlh1-j6k1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Mike Nishizawa wrote:

> These posts are like big huge neon signs that say, "I'm IGNORANT."  If
> you hold that 1 language is better than all other languages, then you
> ARE ignorant.  LISP is a parsing language.  It's obviously not made to
> do the same things that C is.  LISP is extremely fast for processing
> data files.
> 
> C in not an end-all be-all of programming languages, even though it is
> quite robust.  For instance, C is great if you are going to develop
> software for 1 platform.  However, if you are developing software for
> multiple platforms, Java is a better choice.
> 
> Really these discussions boil down to the programmer him/herself, who
> is usually the one at fault for poor performance.  I'm not quite sure
> when this happened, but at some point programmers started relying on
> hardware for fast, efficient software and from that point on, the
> quality and emphasis placed on writing efficient programs has
> diminished.  If you want your code to run faster, make it more
> efficient... make it use less resources... and use the right language
> for the job.  Don't try to fit all things under one umbrella because
> that language has not been developed yet.
> 

http://www.tundraware.com/Technology/How-To-Pick-A-Programming-Language/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 21 16:12:04 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:12:04 -0600
Subject: Invalid character in os.system call...
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c40ea0$c9104760$0600a8c0@Hugh>
References: <00ef01c40ea0$c9104760$0600a8c0@Hugh>
Message-ID: <20040321211203.GA2797@unpythonic.net>

Python's os.system() is a wrapper around the C library's system() call.
If you read ANSI C, you'll learn that basically nothing about system()
is specified.

In the real world, Unix passes the argument to system() to sh -c, like
so:
    def system(command):
        return os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/bin/sh", ["sh", "-c", command])
so refer to "man sh" to learn more about how the command is interpreted,
or use os.spawnv or os.execv to directly control the list of arguments
in the subprogram.

Personally, I recommend using spawnv or execv over using system.

Jeff



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 17 10:36:24 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:36:24 -0600
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
In-Reply-To: <m2u10nzj69.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
	<m2u10nzj69.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <16472.28792.900813.442017@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> <cmd> <generic options> <subcmd> <subcmd options> <args>

    Heather> How about having your plugins "register" with your main program
    Heather> *before* you call optparse? ....

    Heather> I've not used optparse, but I've used that scheme with getopt.

I was thinking that with getopt I would call it once to process the generic
options.  That would leave the args as the list equivalent of

    <subcmd> <subcmd options> <args>

The main program plucks <subcmd> from that list and then passes the
remaining args to the appropriate subcommand, which calls getopt again with
the list equivalent of

    <subcmd options> <args>

I don't know if that's possible with optparse, but if so, that's the route
I'd try first.

Skip



From rajorshi at fastmail.fm  Mon Mar  1 05:24:11 2004
From: rajorshi at fastmail.fm (Rajorshi)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 02:24:11 -0800
Subject: Determining the encoding of a text file
Message-ID: <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8@posting.google.com>

Hello!
 How do I determine the encoding of a text file ? That is,
given a text file I want to know the encoding it is in
UTF8 or UTF16 or Latin etc. It would be very helpful if
you could tell me how to do this in python on Linux. But
just the method is acceptable.
Thanks in advance!


From frr149 at telefonica.net  Thu Mar  4 10:23:52 2004
From: frr149 at telefonica.net (Boogie El Aceitoso)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:23:52 +0100
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
Message-ID: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>

Hi,

How can I catch a generic exception (without knowing a priori what exception
it will be)?

For example, something like this
try:
   generateSomeException()
except e:
  print e




From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar  6 22:48:59 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:48:59 +0100
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <6Fu2c.2306$G3.18772@localhost>
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>	<mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6Fu2c.2306$G3.18772@localhost>
Message-ID: <404A9BAB.7030503@stackless.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Ed Cogburn wrote:
> 
>> David McNab wrote:
>>
>>> My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the 
>>> name of PMW.
>>
>>
>> Have you also tried wxPython?  I'm not advocating, just want to know 
>> if you've also tried "the other one".  :)  What does PMW do for 
>> Tkinter?  I've seen opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than 
>> (standard) Tkinter, but I've never seen PMW mentioned before when 
>> comparing the two.  If you've used wxPython previously, how does 
>> Tkinter+PMW compare to it?  Anyone?
> 
> 
> I've used both, and didn't find PMW any more compelling than I found 
> Tkinter alone.  I still find that wxPython fits my brain better and 
> gives me better results.  This, however, is an area where individual 
> mileage definitely varies, based on past reports here that strongly 
> support either the one or the other approach depending on who's writing.

If I may add to this:
I have been using wxPython for 1.5 years, now. And I'm not
completely happy, I'm just pleased. I heared that QT is
smaller and more capable, should also be more elegant.
Can't really judge it. The problem with QT is that it is not
free for commercial products under Windows.

wxPython has some subtle hurdles which can cost you days of
research, annoying when you are used to the ease of Delphi
for GUI development. For instance, I wanted to grab keyboard
events on a wxStaticBitmap object and almost didn't get any.
After a longer search, I found a note that this only works
if you switch of tab processing for the enclosing wxFrame
objects. For me as (in this case :) the application
programmer, this is just bad, and almost unsolveable without
the help of the mailing list. I also doubt that this behavior
necessarily has to be implemented in this rigorous way.

There is also a serious strugle with flicker. Meanwhile, I
solved all these issues for me, but again, this took days and
weeks of research. With Delphi, I never had this problem.
Now I *have* smooth, flicker free display of little movies
with wxPython, but I had to do all the drawing by myself,
had to remove all implicit calls to erase the background,
and it is a huge code cruft. Anyway, it works very fine.

So I can't recommend wxPython wholeheartedly, it has cost me
much more efforts than I wanted to invest.
On the other hand, it is free, and it does it's job, in the
end. As a positive add-on, there is Boa Constructor, which
I happily use to create my wxPython stuff. It is still young,
very ambitious but not really ready, but I like it very much.

I will look into PyGame, which does not have a GUI at all,
but seems to be quite simple and platform-independant, and
I'm thinking to write my own GUI layer on top of it.
This would of course be Stackless Python centered from the
ground. I'm not sure if it will happen in this life,
but I'm thinking positive.

Until then, I will continue to cope with wxPython. I don't
say it is perfect, but I do say it can be what you want.

cheers -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From vxg49 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 11:47:09 2004
From: vxg49 at yahoo.com (Fred Murray)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 08:47:09 -0800
Subject: Odd cgi.FieldStorage behavior
Message-ID: <bcfdd93d.0403020847.4e8957db@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

When uploading a file ("input type=file"), FieldStorage usually
behaves correctly, but every once in a while (every couple days?), it
will suddenly start causing internal server errors.  A look at the
apache (v. 2.0.44 on Linux) error log shows "premature end of script
headers" with no error messages from Python.  After reloading the
browser about 10 times in a row, it will suddenly start working again.
 Recently, when a series of these errors was occuring, I removed the
FieldStorage line from my program and it completed normally.  When I
put the line back in again, the internal server errors resumed.  Thus,
it seems that the bug is either in FieldStorage itself or in something
FieldStorage interacts with.

It seems odd that that there are no errors in the log from Python. 
Does this mean the program is crashing before it can output a
traceback to stderr?

Cheers,
Fred


From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Mon Mar 22 09:55:12 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 14:55:12 GMT
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<8351bb33.0403220632.5becbc0c@posting.google.com>
	<405efb39$0$28151$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<zOSdnUkCqeeDYcPdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c3muog$pve$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> Peter Hickman wrote:
> 
> > Jon Nicoll wrote:
> > 
> >> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
> >>> The UK English phrase would be to "put on kid gloves" kid gloves 
> >>> being very soft and gentle type of leather (supposedly made from 
> >>> juveniles).
> >>
> >> er, I think 'supposedly made from [the skin of] juvenile _goats_ ...'
> >>
> >>     Regards
> >>     Jon N
> > 
> > As they say, God is in the details.
> 
> God is a young goat?!

Yes.  Of course, as they also say, the Devil is in the details.

So if a young goat claims to be God, be careful - he might be kidding.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
    The supreme misfortune is when theory outstrips performance.
				- Leonardo da Vinci




From light at soton.ac.uk  Thu Mar 25 04:34:38 2004
From: light at soton.ac.uk (Mark Light)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:34:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: simple py2exe import os error
Message-ID: <c3u93e$k1a$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>

Hi,
   I am trying to use py2exe on a simple python program and get the
error below. Any ideas? It runs fine on my laptop at home but not on my
desktop at work - I think they are setup the same - but I guess there
must be some subtle difference.



##standard output
C:\Python_Mark\datamatetest>python setup.py py2exe
C:\Python23\Lib\os.py:282: Warning: 'yield' will become a reserved
keyword in th
e future
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
C:\Python23\Lib\os.py:282: Warning: 'yield' will become a reserved
keyword in th
e future
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 1, in ?
    from distutils.core import setup
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\distutils\core.py", line 13, in ?
    import sys, os
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\os.py", line 282
    yield top, dirs, nondirs
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

C:\Python_Mark\datamatetest>

##input setyp file
C:\Python_Mark\datamatetest>more setup.py
from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe, os
print os.getcwd()
setup(name="DataMate",
      version="2.0",
      description="DownLoad Kappa CCD Data",
      author="Mark E Light",
      author_email="light at soton.ac.uk",
      scripts=["DataMate.pyw"],
      data_files=[(os.getcwd(), ["DataMate.ini"]), (os.getcwd(),
["DataMateSav.i
ni"])],
)

#python setup.py py2exe



From fowlertrainer at anonym.hu  Mon Mar  1 07:25:38 2004
From: fowlertrainer at anonym.hu (fowlertrainer at anonym.hu)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:25:38 +0100
Subject: KinterBasDB problems  in Linux
In-Reply-To: <c1v5va$72k$1@online.de>
References: <mailman.8.1078128172.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<c1v5va$72k$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <16617410454.20040301132538@anonym.hu>

Hello Uwe,

So: in Debian Sarge, some interesting thing happened.

When I start python with:
/usr/bin/python
it is starting the py2.3

When I write this:
import kinterbasdb<crlf>
the py2.3 is not say this:
"import _kinterbasdb as _k"
"ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb"
only do the import.
So it is working.

BUT !

If I write this line to a script:
#!/usr/bin/python
import kinterbasdb
this error I get:
"import _kinterbasdb as _k"
"ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb"

Why ?
What I do wrong ??????

Anybody know it ?


Monday, March 1, 2004, 12:15:04 PM, you wrote:

UG> I don't have any proplems with cross-platform issues.
UG> Working on Win2000 + suse linux 8.2, 9.0 and FB 1.5,
UG> kinterbasdb from http://sourceforge.net/projects/kinterbasdb/

I try with apt-get install "kidb", and do same things.

UG> Try this version!

UG> Uwe


UG> fowlertrainer at anonym.hu wrote:

>> Hello !
>> 
>> I have a problem.
>> I create my projects in Windows, and I write a database synchronizing
>> utility for copy a gdb changes to another gdb. Some of these products
>> is need to run in linux.
>> 
>> I'm very tired, because I download (apt-get install
>> python2.3-kinterbasedb) the module, what working good in Windows, but
>> in linux I get this message when I try to start my script:
>> 
>> bha:/kepes# ./syncmdb2teldb.py
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "./syncmdb2teldb.py", line 2, in ?
>>     import kinterbasdb
>>   File "/home/fixshare/kepes/kinterbasdb/__init__.py", line 41, in ?
>>     import _kinterbasdb as _k
>> ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb
>> bha:/kepes#
>> 
>> 
>> The test file is:
>> File: syncmdb2teldb.py  Col 0              321 bytes            100%
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>> import kinterbasdb
>> 
>> import sys
>> # Base datas
>> 
>> srcdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/teldata.gdb',us
>> er='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
>> desdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/mpanni.gdb',use
>> r='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
>> print "ok"
>> 
>> 1Help   2UnWrap 3Quit   4Hex    5Line   6RxSrch 7Search 8Raw    9Unform 10Quit
>> 
>> In the package dir:
>> 
>> bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb# ls -l
>> total 152
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        29691 Jul 19  2002 __init__.py
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyc
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyo
>> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        56072 Sep 28 16:32 _kinterbasdb.so
>> bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb#
>> 
>> 
>> What I do wrong, or what is it ????
>> (The Zope with Kinterbasdb is working good in this linux, so no
>> connection problem...)
>> 
>> thanx for every help !
>> 





-- 
Best regards,
 fowlertrainer                            mailto:fowlertrainer at anonym.hu




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Mar  6 11:45:32 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:45:32 -0500
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
References: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <den2c.16983$JZ6.592668@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-AEE793.11085806032004 at reader2.panix.com...
> I've got a module that defines a bunch of constants:
>
> OP_FOO = 1
> OP_BAR = 2
> OP_BAZ = 37
>
> and so on.  The values are all unique.  I want to build, at module
> import time, a reverse map of these constants, i.e. I want to end up
> with:
>
> {1: "OP_FOO", 2: "OP_BAR", 37: "OP_BAZ"}
>

I'm not sure how to do this "at module import time", but if you just
want to build a reverse dictionary of globals variables that start with
"OP_", you can try this:

rd = dict([(v,k) for k,v in globals().copy().iteritems() if
k.startswith("OP_")])


>Not to mention that I don't
> see how to get a handle to the module from inside the module, i.e.
> there's no "self".

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=giGhb.262770%24R32.8518969%40news2.tin.it&rnum=6





From oussoren at cistron.nl  Mon Mar 22 04:32:40 2004
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:32:40 +0100
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <DD2E4369-7BE3-11D8-8375-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

>> In practice though, there is really just one implementation of Python
>> (with the standard libraries... excluding Jython)

That's *two* implementations of Python: CPython and Jython, one of 
which uses pyc files. You're conveniently ignoring the primary example 
of a Python interpreter that does not use pyc files.

>>  which works using the
>> same bytecode mechanism on _all_ platforms, so as far as I can tell,
>> it would be quite feasible to distribute applications in .pyc form.

Yes it is feasible to distribute apps in .pyc form, as long as you 
target a specific version of Python.

Ronald




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 17 20:32:16 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:32:16 -0600
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
In-Reply-To: <105hpt53kagaj67@corp.supernews.com>
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
	<105hpt53kagaj67@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040318013216.GB12550@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 12:04:53AM -0000, Cameron Laird wrote:
> I'm curious about how you decided to start with the program you've
> exhibited above.

I think he's using this module:
    http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/graphics.py
it looks like a canvas-based thing, and the example would probably have
worked if Tkinter was installed properly on the system.

Jeff



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Mar  3 07:40:57 2004
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:40:57 +1100
Subject: capturing audio
In-Reply-To: <001b01c40113$1f45efe0$b10d10ac@metasalio>
References: <001b01c40113$1f45efe0$b10d10ac@metasalio>
Message-ID: <4045D259.9060205@interlink.com.au>

Herman Geldenhuys wrote:
> has anybody tried to capture sound or audio from within python on windows?
> i'm looking for an api for the lame encoder, but no luck.

Look at the fastaudio wrapper for portaudio. Shtoom uses this on 
windows, works fine.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:13:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:13:46 -0800
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6ebe2.7aa.philh@cabalamat.cabalamat.org>
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<slrnc6ebe2.7aa.philh@cabalamat.cabalamat.org>
Message-ID: <c4ckjs$ru5$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> def foo(self):
>    this_method. spark_rule = "DOC:=HEAD BODY FOOT"
>    this_method.url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"
>    this_method = publish_to_web(this_method)
>    " doc string "
>    very
>    long
>    body

God no.

  - Josiah


From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Thu Mar 11 10:53:18 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 07:53:18 -0800
Subject: backquote
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>

Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?  Trying
to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.

Olaf


From pje at telecommunity.com  Tue Mar 23 13:00:11 2004
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 10:00:11 -0800
Subject: import, functions, and threading
References: <c2rkgj$irh$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <25b5433d.0403231000.4003f7fa@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c2rkgj$irh$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> There were some posts recently discussing whether it's poor style to put
> import statements inside functions.  I recently got reminded that there's
> one very good reason to avoid it: Python has an import lock that blocks
> more than one thread from executing import statements.  Putting import
> statements inside functions that might be called in a threaded
> environment is asking for deadlock trouble.

If I understand this correctly, a deadlock could only occur if a lock
was being acquired by module-level code in a newly imported module,
after another thread acuired that lock, and then blocked waiting for
the import lock.

So, all this means is that you shouldn't acquire locks in module-level
code, because if you do, you can run afoul of this problem entirely
independent of whether you do any importing in functions!

So, treating this as an issue with importing inside functions seems
like a red herring.  The import lock can only be a source of deadlocks
for module-level code, and the issue applies to *any* import
statement.


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 24 14:53:30 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:53:30 -0700
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
	<ltSdnejduc5-df3dRVn-uA@speedfactory.net>
	<l2a260lj050pch3sq57vfp29rsq099tgp9@4ax.com>
	<C-udnUFjGsp-PPzd4p2dnA@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <vho3609it1bc3nnqui3e5ii8e3kupgl0c2@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:57:35 -0500, "Michael A. Covington"
<look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address> wrote:

>WN16 is WordNet 1.6, from Princeton University, basically a huge synonym
>dictionary of English.  They are up to version 2.0 now and it's much better
>behaved.  The open-source community is _finally_ learning something about
>how Windows works.  For a while there, inept Windows configuration seemed to
>be a point of pride with some kinds of free software tools!

I believe the problem lies with Microsoft for obfuscating the
installation process.  As good as they have done with usability for
the typical office user, they seem to have a deliberate strategy of
making things more complex than they need to be at the system level.
The registry is a prime example.  Another is the monolithic
integration of the desktop with the OS.  There are many such examples.
It's all part of the Lock In Strategy of software development.

Open-source developers are often not as expert in Windows
installations as a typical commercial developer targeting the Windows
platform.  We cannot blame them for falling into a few Microsoft
traps.  It's not like they don't *want* their programs to run on
Windows, or that they are "proud" of the problems they cause for
Windows users.  A few may a have a "don't care" attitude, but most
just don't realize that when they set a variable in AUTOEXEC.BAT, it
can mess up another program like IDLE.

Given the reality that other programs will be making blunders in their
installations, we should still be able to detect a bad setup for IDLE
and at least warn the user -- "Some other program has set the default
TCL/TK library to version 8.2.  IDLE cannot be installed unless you
remove the variable TCLxxxNNN from the current environment.

-- Dave



From peter at semantico.com  Mon Mar 15 10:26:58 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:26:58 +0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
>>Premshree Pillai wrote:
>>>Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
>>>strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily bound
>>>to a particular type.

[deletia]

> Secondly, you appear to be confusing C and C++ with strongly typed
> languages. A common mistake :-)

No I was just taking Premshree's lead where he says 'Like in C, C++, 
etc, Python too is strongly typed'

> Python is strongly typed because:
> 
> - lots of type checking is done
> - few implicit type conversions are done.
> - No operations which are inappropriate to the object(s) in question
>   are allowed.

Perhaps you should read the following where Guido van Rossum talks about 
typing in Python. Here he is contrasting strongly typed languages with 
Python.

"In a strongly typed language, when you change to a different data 
structure, you will likely have to change the argument and return types 
of many methods that just pass these things on. You may also have to 
change the number of arguments, because suddenly you pass the 
information as two or three parts instead of one. In Python, if you 
change the type of something, most likely pieces of code that only pass 
that something around and don't use it directly don't have to change at 
all."

It would seem to be clear that what Guido considers to be strong typing 
is not a feature of Python. As the following quote seems to indicate.

"Weak typing is not really a fair description of what's going on in 
Python. It's really runtime typing because every object is labeled with 
a type."

Here's the link http://www.artima.com/intv/strongweakP.html I would 
recommend reading www.artima.com to anyone interested in programming.

So there we have it, Python is *NOT* strongly typed unless you know more 
about Python than Guido van Rossum.

1-0


From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 30 06:52:06 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:52:06 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4bn16$2g4g2k$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Buck Nuggets wrote:

> step 1: sort the file using a separate sort utility (unix sort, cygwin
> sort, etc)
> 
> step 2: have a python program read in rows, 
>         compare each row to the prior,
>         write out only one row for each set

It might be worth mentioning that if your idea of 'sameness' is 
identical textual representation, the '-u' flag of 'sort' does step 2 
for you. Won't work in the more general case, but then 'sort' might not 
work either. YMMV.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 10:43:31 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:43:31 -0000
Subject: Tangent on embeddability (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my
	particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<roy-3EDA29.08465327032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <106b893s0sfut11@corp.supernews.com>

In article <roy-3EDA29.08465327032004 at reader1.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>2) It's dead simple to embed in a C/C++ application.  This is one place 
>where it really outshines Python.  It's literally two lines of C to get 
>a Tcl interpreter up and running.  It's equally trivial to extend Tcl by 
>providing functions in C.  Compare this to the native Python/C 
>interface, boost.python, or swig, and you really appreciate the 
>difference!
>
>For most general purpose tasks, I reach for Python first.  But if I 
>needed to provide a quick scripting interface to an existing C library, 
>or wanted to embed some easy scriptability into a large C/C++ app, Tcl 
>is what I would be looking at.

Me, too, to a large extent.  I think you overstate Tcl's
advantage, though, Roy, in a couple of ways.  First, I
agree that Tcl is objectively easier and more reliable
in embedding; Python still has blemishes in ease-of-use
and portability in this role.  It can be hard getting 
all of Python embedded correctly, especially, in my ex-
perience, when working on multiple platforms.

However, Tcl has historically been so easy that it hasn't
bothered documenting the process.  Python has a definitive
(if aging) embedding manual that I regard as more inviting
than what Tcl offers.

Also, ctypes, Boost and Pyrex *are* successful, and appear
to me progressing faster than any of their Tcl cousins.

Yet another way to look at the comparison is that a sig-
nificant number of people rely on SWIG, and, to them, 
Tcl and Python are indistinguishable.

Follow-ups narrowed.  Most of Perl's response to all of
this is, "Wait 'til 6!"
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 12:46:47 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 18:46:47 +0100
Subject: No built-in swap function?
References: <eOY9c.34271$tY6.1012774@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <ad1zeebc.fsf@pobox.com>

"Andrew Koenig" <ark at acm.org> writes:

> I am looking for the most effective way to exchange v[i] and v[j], and
> expected to find something like
> 
>     v.swap(i, j)
> 
> but it doesn't seem to exist.  Is there anything better than
> 
>     v[i], v[j] = v[j], v[i]
> 
> (which I don't like particularly because it evaluates each of v[i] and v[j]
> twice)?

I don't think so.

It seems an odd question in one way: Saying that it evaluates v[i] and
v[j] twice may be true, but ignores the fact that v[a] is quite
different from v[a] = b -- one does a lookup (whether it be a dict
lookup, list indexing operation, or whatever), and the other is an
assignment (whether setting a dict key/val pair, setting a list item,
etc).

I admit I don't like the repetition of v[i] and v[j], though of course
that can be solved by writing a function.  I suppose a function is
best here, not a method, because you might want to apply it to any
sequence.

I-am-not-a-language-lawyer-ly y'rs,


John


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 11 16:43:14 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:43:14 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1051nfg3nie5060@news.supernews.com>

"Ellinghaus, Lance" <lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list at python.org...
> > > Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()
>
> >Reload doesn't work the way most people think
> >it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
> >they stay around. They aren't replaced.
>
> >It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
> >doesn't do what the idea promises.
>
> I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
> would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()?
>
> Would this be done by "del sys.modules['modulename']" and then perform an
> 'import'?
>
> I use reload() for many purposes, knowing how it works/does not work.

I usually figure out another way to do it - mostly reload the entire
program from scratch. In any case, it's not a real issue for me -
it's just enough of an irritation that the PythonWin editor does it that
I keep a command line open rather than use what is (to me) a
really broken implementation of run.

There are a lot of things in life that I wished worked the way they
are advertised. They don't, so you cope.

John Roth
>
> Lance Ellinghaus
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 18 11:40:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:40:32 -0500
Subject: Slashes and Windows (was Re: New to Python.)
In-Reply-To: <Xns94B0694423F36sdfexpertunecom@216.168.3.44>
References: <40593E14.EAF16BD5@alcyone.com>
	<mailman.126.1079617542.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94B0694423F36sdfexpertunecom@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <3pSdnZHPt9CdTMTdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Scott F wrote:
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in
> news:mailman.126.1079617542.742.python-list at python.org: 
> 
>>>You really want to use double backslashes (\\) here or use a raw
>>>string (r'...').  If not, this will eventually bite you.
>>
>>Or forward slashes (/), which avoids the whole problem.
> 
> for file() and similar, forward slashes are great, but try to spawn() 
> something and a raw string works better.

The basic rule is that if you are passing the path through the command 
line (in effect, using os.system or spawn and friends), you need to use 
backslashes, but any other time forward slashes should be fine.

Unfortunately, if you ever get into comparing path strings, and some 
have been made with forward slashes, while others used backslashes or 
were run through things like os.path.normpath(), then you'll also get 
into trouble.

-Peter


From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Wed Mar 24 09:57:35 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:57:35 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
	<ltSdnejduc5-df3dRVn-uA@speedfactory.net>
	<l2a260lj050pch3sq57vfp29rsq099tgp9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <C-udnUFjGsp-PPzd4p2dnA@speedfactory.net>


"Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:l2a260lj050pch3sq57vfp29rsq099tgp9 at 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:48:19 -0500, "Michael A. Covington"
> <snip>
> My apologies... The name seems familiar... "Astrophotography for
> the Amateur", by chance?

That's me!  Since I lead a double life, I'll give you both signature blocks
below...

By the way, the deal with WN16 was - can you believe it - an AUTOEXEC.BAT
file!  I didn't know such things would even still run under Windows XP, but
there it was.

WN16 is WordNet 1.6, from Princeton University, basically a huge synonym
dictionary of English.  They are up to version 2.0 now and it's much better
behaved.  The open-source community is _finally_ learning something about
how Windows works.  For a while there, inept Windows configuration seemed to
be a point of pride with some kinds of free software tools!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Michael A. Covington, Associate Director
Artificial Intelligence Center, The University of Georgia
http://www.ai.uga.edu/~mc

-- 
Michael Covington   --  www.covingtoninnovations.com
Author, Astrophotography for the Amateur
and (new) How to Use a Computerized Telescope





From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  8 11:17:04 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:17:04 +0100
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad2rgvpb.fsf@python.net>

lamote1 at netscape.net (chads) writes:

> How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
> simple example?
>
> union {
>    struct {
>       int size;
>       float time;
>    } var1;
>    struct {
>       char initial;
>       float time;
>    } var2;
> };

With ctypes ;-)

from ctypes import *

class MyUnion(Union):

    class struct_1(Structure):
        _fields_ = [("size", c_int),
                    ("time", c_float)]

    class struct_2(Structure):
        _fields_ = [("initial", c_char),
                    ("time", c_float)]

    _fields_ = [("var1", struct_1),
                ("var2", struct_2)]

print sizeof(MyUnion)

On Windows, this prints 8.

Thomas




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Mon Mar 15 13:15:51 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:15:51 +0000
Subject: Stop code in python!!
References: <4055bb8c$0$794$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <ahsb50lbsk60d3md0s99a4r1cjoscgvi9s@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:19:52 +0100, "The Radiator" <The at Radiator>
wrote:

> I have this code, but I shall have a pause in  the end. Would you plaese
> give me some idears to this, or/and write the code better!
> 
> p = (raw_input("Password please: "))
> if p == "root":
>     print ""
>     print "Welcome"
>     print "to this game, hope you will enjoy!"
>     print "But remeber, it still under construktion!!"
>     print ""
> m = (raw_input("Will you move on to level 2? (y/n)"))
> print ""
> if m == "n":
>     print "Goodbye!!"
> else:
>     if m == "y":
>         print "Hey, this here is level 2"
>         print "but it is still under construction"
> 
If you just want the program to stop so that you can see the
output try adding a raw_input() line at the end:

raw_input("Hit Enter to quit...")

Alternatively don't double click but actually run it from inside
a DOS prompt(assuming you are on Windoze) or within IDLE.

BTW You might find it helpful to join the Python tutor mailing
list which is geared to helping beginners. Find the sign up page
under Communities->Mailing Lists on the Python web site.

HTH

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sun Mar 14 12:12:55 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:12:55 GMT
Subject: creating array of python objects
Message-ID: <slrnc594jv.46q.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

Dear People,

I have the current modest goal. Given a user defined class, I want to
creata an array of instances of that class.

Consider the following class.

class cell:
    def setrow(self,row):
        self.row = row
    def setcol(self,col):
        self.col = col
    ...

I create an "empty" cell.

empcell = cell()

Now I want to create an array of objects identical to empcell, and
later initialize them.

I tried stuff along the lines of 

******************************************************************
import string
from numarray import *

empcell = cell()

base = [empcell]

mat = fromlist(base,shape=(2,2))
******************************************************************

But the 

mat = fromlist(base,shape=(2,2))

line fails with

AttributeError: cell instance has no attribute '__len__'

Similar things fail with the same error message. No doubt I'm doing
something stupid, but would someone please enlighten me?

I got the fromlist command from 

>>> help("numarray.objects")

I was a bit disconcerted to find on trying to run the first example
from the help page that I got

>>> a = fromlist(["t","u","w"])
...
TypeError: Expecting a python numeric type, got something else.

What am I doing wrong?

I'm running

ii  python                    2.3.3-5                   An interactive
high-level object-oriented language (default versio
ii  python-numarray           0.8.1-1                   An array
processing package modelled after Python-Numeric
ii  python-numeric            23.1-1                    Numerical
(matrix-oriented) Mathematics for Python

on Debian sarge.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long-winded message.

                                                          Faheem.



From qpmez at oce.nl  Fri Mar 19 09:57:09 2004
From: qpmez at oce.nl (Patrick Mezenberg)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:57:09 +0100
Subject: Running inproc COM-components in a surrogate process using win32com
Message-ID: <405B0A45.33BA4981@oce.nl>

Hi all,

It should be possible to let inproc COM-components live in a surrogate
process (for instance in the default Dllhost.exe surrogate process, for
more info see http://msdn.microsoft.com search for: "DLL Surrogates
(COM)"). Somehow this "feature" does not seem to work when running
inproc COM-components launched within a python environment using the
win32com package (the inproc component then lives in the python.exe
process). Does anyone know whether win32com supports surrogates
processes and if so what could I done wrong? Or is there perhaps an
alternative, I use python for testing inproc COM-components so it is not
an option to let the COM-components live in the python process (if the
component under test chrashes my testenvironment will crash too).

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Patrick


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sun Mar 14 03:32:51 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:32:51 -0800
Subject: A GOTO example (was question: numarray c extension...)
In-Reply-To: <slrnc53sud.v6f.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<pecora-39E235.15412111032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c2ss14$dp0$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc53sud.v6f.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c315h4$ij1$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> You have to remember to check the error variable at every step in the
> function, or use else clauses and deal with heavy nesting.  This is a
> perfect situation for GOTO.

I did slip, but it is still fairly easy to do, I just wasn't paying 
attention.  It does show a situation where GOTO can be useful, I'll give 
you that.  Depending on the code, it may be a case where a macro would 
be better suited.

  - Josiah


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar  4 12:35:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:35:52 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E70@opus.amorhq.net>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> Gadfly looks like an interesting database system for python. I am
> working on a couple of projects that may benefit from using a database
> (on the other hand, these days - is there really aproblem with using
> dictionaries that are a couple of meg in size and searching through
> those ??).

The only problem with using in-memory dictionaries will be the indexing,
which is the problem which databases solve. In other words: if you
always look up the objects by dictionary key, it might be feasible, but
if you need to inspect each object to match it against some criterion,
you should find a good DB.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Wed Mar 24 00:23:42 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:23:42 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
	<6ZydnUx5GLGadf3dRVn-sw@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <mKSdne2FPNLDhvzdRVn-gg@speedfactory.net>

Somehow, after reinstalling, it started working OK.  And on another computer
it gave no trouble.

"Michael A. Covington" <look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address> wrote
in message news:6ZydnUx5GLGadf3dRVn-sw at speedfactory.net...
> Further, Python 2.3.2 has the same problem, but with 8.3 in place of 8.4
> throughout.
>
>
> "Michael A. Covington" <look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address>
wrote
> in message news:PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw at speedfactory.net...
> > On the trail of figuring out why IDLE won't launch, look at this:
> >
> > Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> > win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import Tkinter
> > >>> Tkinter._test()
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 3640, in _test
> >     root = Tk()
> >   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
> >     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
> > _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
> > directories:
> >     {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.4
> > C:/Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library
> > This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> > >>>
> >
> >
> > Here \WN16 is where *another* TCL/TK application *used* to reside.  And
> the
> > TCL stuff definitely *does* exist under C:\Python23\tcl\tcl8.4 (not
> > lib\tcl8.4).
> >
> > By default does Python 2.3.3 install itself incorrectly???!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  8 15:43:11 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:43:11 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ESJTAls/KHYb089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <nf2vh1-juf.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Well, say you decide that several lines of code should be executed
> repeatedly.  You can stick in the while...: , your editor can indent
> the block, then you have to hunt for numbered `continue` and `break` and
> increment some, but not all of the numbers.  Unnumbered `continue` and
> `break` cause similar trouble, but the trouble is guaranteed to be more
> local.  For non-local I much prefer the exit-by-exception.

That is fine (and only solves break - continue is more of a pain, and things
get real ugly if you have both break and continue).  You are not forced to
use every language construct. For example I never use 'else' with for loops.
Similarly to your argument, multiple inheritance can also be error prone
(eg call a different base class than you thought, order of inheritance
matters).  Some languages don't let you use multiple inheritance
ever.  Others (such as Python) realize that it can occassionaly be
useful and allow you to use it.

All general purpose languages let you have looping constructs (for and
while) and usually let you nest them to arbitrary depths (ie it isn't
considered a bad thing by the languages to have nested loops).  They
all let you break out of the loops before they would naturally terminate
(break) and usually do the next iteration of the loop (continue - Modula
2 doesn't have this).

Since nested loops are ok, and break/continue out of one enclosing loop
is ok, why is break/continue out of more than one some sort of great
evil?  Your argument about introducimg more loops in the same code
requiring fixing of the numbers doesn't really matter.  You may have to
do code surgery if you went from one enclosing loop to two (because there
is no break 2/continue 2) so each loop construct has to be examined
anyway.  Python's indentation rules also make it VERY clear what is
going on.  Any code editor can trivially renumber existing code when you
insert a new loop.

Just like multiple-inheritance, this may be of no use to you or
a construct you feel is too dangerous for your code.  That doesn't
mean it should be prevented from others using it.

Several pieces of my code would greatly benefit from break/continue
of multiple depths.  They currently use extra variables and exceptions
and have had a tendency to be somewhat buggy due to the extra complexity
and the mismatch between my mental model and what the language allows.

Roger




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 11:05:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:05:58 -0600
Subject: Way OT [was: Re: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318)]
In-Reply-To: <slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <16481.45542.61787.963592@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Joe> (The crux of the flamewar is that Condorcet tends to elect
    Joe> "compromise candidates" who are few peoples' favourite but
    Joe> palatable to most, while IRV is more likely to elect people that
    Joe> are the first choice of a large block but hated by others.  Which
    Joe> is preferable is a matter of philosophy.)

Given the results of the last couple of presidential elections in the US I'd
say our current system tends to "elect people that are the first choice of a
large block but hated by others" as well.  It has little to do with the
voting method though, and more to do with the candidates pandering to the
more extreme segments of their constituencies (*).  Perhaps one or the other
voting method would tend to move things back toward the middle.

Skip

(*) My personal opinion is that most Republican party apparatchiks try to
brand as "liberal" anyone whose views are at all to the left of say, Rush
Limbaugh.



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Mar 23 19:50:07 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:50:07 -0800
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
References: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de><mailman.291.1080059607.742.python-list@python.org><c3pv3g$2l0r$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
	<mailman.304.1080075382.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ki27j1-96v.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Like amk said, "them ain't us".

I think "Python Robot" is what Awstats uses to refer to anything with a
user agent of "Python-urllib" (actually from the Awstats code, it would appear
that anything with "python" in the user agent field is considered the Python Robot.

There is one person on the end of a DSL line who looks at a Python file on
my website at 7am PST every day.  User agent is "Python-urllib/1.15"

Roger




From michael at foord.net  Mon Mar  8 05:20:44 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 02:20:44 -0800
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.77.1078607276.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403080220.4622ded6@posting.google.com>

[snip..]

> Isn't this more readable? :
> 
> pieces = line.split(|)   # break at the bars
> nodots  = [ piece.strip(".") for piece in pieces ] # remove leading or 
> trailing dots
> clean = [" ".join(words.split()) for words in nodots] # normalise spaces
> 
> Well, there is still some complexity with the join/split mess.
> But still more readable than the regex?



This is much simpler and easier to read.
Seems like the best solution..... no need for it all to be done on one
line.

Remind me of the Perl assertion that it's a better language because
you can cram functions into huge, indecipherable single lines..... why
on earth is that an advantage ?

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar  3 03:08:51 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:08:51 +0100
Subject: py2exe odbc:cannot import dbi module
References: <f00811ba.0403020804.27a9b1dc@posting.google.com>
	<wu63jcc3.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <65dmic8c.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis) writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm trying to create an executable with py2exe, and it uses the odbc
>> module. The script runs fine until I use py2exe on it and run the
>> .exe. Then I get:
>>
>> --
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "dbmod.py", line 2, in ?
>>   File "odbc.pyo", line 9, in ?
>>   File "odbc.pyo", line 7, in __load
>> odbc: Cannot import dbi module
>> --
>>
>> dbi.dll is in the dist folder, and so is odbc.pyd.
>>
>> Does anyone know how to solve this problem?
>
> It seems you have to first explicitely import the dbi module before the
> odbc module can be imported.
>
> """
> import dbi, odbc
> """
>
> py2exe doesn't know that dbi.dll is a python extension - it is only
> found as binary dependency.

You can avoid the need for 'import dbi' by patching the builtin
hidden_imports dictionary, in the get_hidden_imports() method in
py2exe\build_exe.py, near line 650. Add
   "odbc": ["dbi"]
and it should work.

>  And you should not (must not?) distribute
> odbc32.dll, which is also copied to the dist folder.
>
> In py2exe 0.5, you *should* be able to specify
>    dll_exludes = ["odbc32.dll"]
> but this doesn't seem to work.

I got this wrong - it does work, but you have to pass an options dict to
the setup script, something like this:

setup(...
      options = {"py2exe":
                  {"dll_excludes": ["odbc32.dll"]}}
     )

Thomas




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Mar 24 07:41:54 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:41:54 -0500
Subject: creating lists question?
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3qu0d$rfl$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <SIYYAls/KDFC089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <c3qu0d$rfl$1 at news.service.uci.edu>,
Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:
>> I'm not sure this is doing what I want it to do. In the example I gave I
>> want a new list call "aaa" another list called "bbb"... so I can append to
>> the new list  i.e., bbb.append().  It may be that your example does this but
>> it appears to be (with my limited knowledge) that it's creating a list of
>> lists, when all I want is a new isolated list.
>
>Matt already gave an answer for how to do it using exec.  There is
>another method:
>
>for name in list1:
>     locals()[name] = []
>
>The above gets the dictionary for the local namespace, and makes the
>name given point to a new list.
>
>This doesn't have the same security holes as exec, but may have
>(non-exploitable) security holes, eg lists with builtin or module names.

Modifying locals() is not entirely like creating a variable:

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f (x):
...     print locals()
...     locals()['b'] = x
...     print locals()
...     if x == 'x':
...         print b
...     print
...
>>> f('y')
{'x': 'y'}
{'x': 'y', 'b': 'y'}

>>> f('x')
{'x': 'x'}
{'x': 'x', 'b': 'x'}
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 6, in f
NameError: global name 'b' is not defined


        Regards.        Mel.


From rich_NOSPAM_ at _NOSPAM_holmteam.net  Thu Mar  4 17:36:57 2004
From: rich_NOSPAM_ at _NOSPAM_holmteam.net (RichH)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:36:57 -0600
Subject: Debugging Extensions using Visual Studio 7.1
References: <MfGdndVflcNSZdjdRVn-uQ@golden.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ab07b459a24c92f989681@news.wowway.com>

In article <MfGdndVflcNSZdjdRVn-uQ at golden.net>, artifice_1
_SPAM_ME_NOT at PLEASE_hotmail.com says...
> Does anyone know how to get this to work? I've done a fair bit of 
> searching with Google and couldn't turn up anything. I just want to get 
> debugging to work so I've built a DLL using VC7 and it runs fine. I set 
> breakpoints in some of the code. Set the command line/args to run the 
> program from python, and then it craps out with: "Fatal Python error: 
> Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Apart from building a debug python so 
> I can set break points in it?
> 

Just turn off optimization (to make it easier to step through the code)
and build a release version.  You can't mix debug and release builds.

Cheers,
Rich


From null at null.null  Thu Mar 18 23:10:56 2004
From: null at null.null (SWright)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:10:56 GMT
Subject: Updating Widgets
Message-ID: <jpu6c.38749$SR1.45480@attbi_s04>

Please bear with a Python/Tkinter newbie here.

   I'm having trouble knowing when a widget will be updated on screen. 
I've included a program that creates a window with a single button. 
When that button is pressed it brings up a configuration window which 
lets you pick the color of 'car' and 'truck'.
   After the user chooses to update the color of car, the StringVar 
which contains the color is updated and the color chooser closes.  The 
'car' button still displays with its original color, but when the config 
window closes, it prints out a message indicating the car color was 
updated.  When the config window is opened again, the 'car' button is 
the color which was picked.
   The truck button operates the same except the widget parameter 'fg' 
is updated when the StringVar is updated.  In this case, the 'truck' 
button changes color immediately.  This is fine, except it requires that 
the button be named so the 'fg' parameter can be changed: name['fg']=color.
Is it possible to make the un-named button update without closing and 
reopening the window?

Thanks for any insight you can give me.


from Tkinter import *
import tkSimpleDialog
import tkColorChooser
 
#******************************************************************************* 

class base:

     def __init__(self,parent):
         self.main=Frame(parent)
         self.main.pack()

         Button(self.main,text="Config",bg='light blue',
                              width=20,height=8,command=self.conf).pack()
          self.info={"car":'#FF0000',"truck":'#0000FF'}

     def conf(self):
         print 'Starting with car %s and truck%s'%(self.info['car'],
                self.info['truck'])
         UNIT_config(self.main,self.info)

#****************************************************************************** 

class UNIT_config(tkSimpleDialog.Dialog):

     def __init__(self,parent,db):
         self.paint=db
         tkSimpleDialog.Dialog.__init__(self,parent)

     def body(self,parent):
	self.car_color=StringVar()
	self.car_color.set(self.paint["car"])
	self.truck_color=StringVar()
	self.truck_color.set(self.paint["truck"])

	Button(parent,text='car',fg=self.car_color.get(),
                command=lambda a1=self.car_color,a2='car':
                self.color_config(a1,a2)).grid(row=1)

	self.b2=Button(parent,text="truck",fg=self.truck_color.get(),
                command=lambda a1=self.truck_color,a2='truck':
                self.color_config(a1,a2))
	self.b2.grid(row=2)

     def apply(self):
         self.paint["car"]=self.car_color.get()
         self.paint["truck"]=self.truck_color.get()
         print 'Now car color', self.car_color.get()
         print 'Now truck color', self.truck_color.get(),'\n**********'

     def color_config(self,color_var,type):
         old_color=color_var.get()
         new_color=tkColorChooser.askcolor(old_color)
         if new_color[0]:
             red=hex(new_color[0][0])[2:]
             green=hex(new_color[0][1])[2:]
             blue=hex(new_color[0][2])[2:]
             if len(red)==1: red='0'+red
             if len(green)==1: green='0'+green
             if len(blue)==1: blue='0'+blue
             new_color_rgb='#'+red+green+blue
         else: new_color_rgb=old_color
         if type=='car':
             self.car_color.set(new_color_rgb)
         else:
             self.truck_color.set(new_color_rgb)
             self.b2['fg']=new_color_rgb
 
#****************************************************************************** 

root = Tk()
prop = base(root)
root.mainloop()


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Mar 12 06:55:00 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:55:00 +0100
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
In-Reply-To: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
Message-ID: <20040312115500.GA4102@nl.linux.org>

John Benson wrote:
> I propose that we change the language of this board to Spanish, as long as
> we're so vocally committed to using best-of-breed languages. Derived from
> the Iberian dialect of vulgar Latin, Spanish has many important advantages
> over English:

> Thinly-veiled threat: If this board doesn't immediately cut over to Spanish
> because it is obviously superior to English, I shall be forced to consider
> its badmouthing of other computer languages as just so much small-minded
> special pleading.

How about Esperanto?

Zamenhoff-forever-ly - y'rs Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 12/03 11:25 UTC:
	6.0?C haze mostly cloudy wind 5.4 m/s ESE (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:53:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:53:52 -0500
Subject: Send commads to printer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1079437909.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.30.1079437909.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YsqdnZcFKcnC9MrdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

free free wrote:

> i'am writing a python program and now i need to print some stuff. Before 
> print i want to set the text to condensed text and to italic, so i have 
> to send some esc commads to printer.
> 
> my code
> 
> pp=open("/dev/lpr","w")
> pp.write(chr(27)+chr(15))
> pp.write("This should be condensed\n")
> pp.write(chr(27)+chr(52))
> pp.write("This should be italic too\n\f")
> pp.close()
> 
> what i get is text in normal font. I think chr(27) does not send the ESC 
> char to printer.

chr(27) is most certainly ASCII ESCape, so the problem is elsewhere. 
Why not try creating a file containing exactly the characters you want 
to send, and copy that to the printer as a test?  If that works, then 
you can try modifying your above program to write to a file instead, for 
comparison.  If it doesn't work, then clearly you are not dealing with a 
  Python problem, but with something environment- or printer-specific.

-Peter


From http  Thu Mar  4 04:39:00 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 01:39:00 -0800
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
	<c268rn$1q8l0e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<4046e6d6$0$4677$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<4046e8c1$0$4666$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xbrnd54uj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"GrelEns" <grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr> writes:
> i'm not happy with this code, must be an other shorter alternative, have you
> any siggestions on how to build these sets  [[1], [2], [3], [1, 2], [1, 3],
> [2, 3], [1, 2, 3]] from [1,2,3] ?

def subsets(lst):
    def subgen(lst):
        if not lst:
            yield lst
            return
        for s in subsets(lst[1:]):
            yield s
            yield [lst[0]] + s
    return list(subgen([1,2,3]))[1:]  # discard empty subset

print subsets([1,2,3])


From grsNOSPAM at NO-SPAMmail.com  Wed Mar  3 11:54:48 2004
From: grsNOSPAM at NO-SPAMmail.com (Guillaume)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:54:48 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

I don't know what this post has to do with comp.lang.c, but whatever.

This was pretty funny nonetheless.

As for me, I would say practically the same things about Java. :-p



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 02:06:38 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:06:38 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <LhG3c.25864$hG.291198@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<LhG3c.25864$hG.291198@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c2rnne$4s3$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> If people do not care for
> 
> import -2.MODULE
> from -1.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
> 
> Would it be possible and/or preferrable to have something like this work:
> 
> import relative(2).MODULE
> from relative(1).MODULE import NAMES as RENAME

I don't know the Python semantics for mixing statements and expressions 
like that.  Really, relative(<INTEGER>) would end up with the same 
magical internals, except that "relative" would probably need to be a 
builtin (which is generally frowned upon).

Personally, I don't favor using functional notation in order to handle 
module loading.  If we wanted a function-based import, we'd all be using 
__import__().

  - Josiah


From nish20 at netzero.net  Thu Mar  4 10:35:32 2004
From: nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 07:35:32 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>

These posts are like big huge neon signs that say, "I'm IGNORANT."  If
you hold that 1 language is better than all other languages, then you
ARE ignorant.  LISP is a parsing language.  It's obviously not made to
do the same things that C is.  LISP is extremely fast for processing
data files.

C in not an end-all be-all of programming languages, even though it is
quite robust.  For instance, C is great if you are going to develop
software for 1 platform.  However, if you are developing software for
multiple platforms, Java is a better choice.

Really these discussions boil down to the programmer him/herself, who
is usually the one at fault for poor performance.  I'm not quite sure
when this happened, but at some point programmers started relying on
hardware for fast, efficient software and from that point on, the
quality and emphasis placed on writing efficient programs has
diminished.  If you want your code to run faster, make it more
efficient... make it use less resources... and use the right language
for the job.  Don't try to fit all things under one umbrella because
that language has not been developed yet.




Guillaume <grsNOSPAM at NO-SPAMmail.com> wrote in message news:<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7 at news.club-internet.fr>...
> I don't know what this post has to do with comp.lang.c, but whatever.
> 
> This was pretty funny nonetheless.
> 
> As for me, I would say practically the same things about Java. :-p


From chrisks at NOSPAMudel.edu  Mon Mar 22 05:02:59 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAMudel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:02:59 -0500
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.18.20.37.27.378319@cut.me.sideralis.net>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.03.18.20.37.27.378319@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <c3mdm0$9au$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>

Riccardo Galli wrote:

> I can't try your prog because I have not Tkinter,

Isn't Tkinter a standard module?


From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Fri Mar  5 20:35:12 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 01:35:12 GMT
Subject: Running insecure python code
References: <hQq%b.41604$BD3.8026233@juliett.dax.net>
	<mailman.189.1077849062.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<2004022623031275249%bob@redivicom>
	<sOO%b.41951$BD3.8059632@juliett.dax.net>
	<2004022718575516807%bob@redivicom>
	<slrnc4f6ep.2elv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
	<2004030511074775249%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <slrnc4iama.2elv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com>
wrote on Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:07:47 -0500:
> On 2004-03-04 16:04:25 -0500, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 
> 'Kamikaze' Hughes) said:
>> Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com>
>> wrote on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:57:55 -0500:
>>> You can try looking into PyPy or something.  In practice, an 
>>> interpreter written in Python is probably going to be far too slow to 
>>> be used for any sort of modern game.
>>   You could translate your more limited scripting language into Python,
>> and then eval it.  This should be reasonably fast, and if you're careful
>> not to pass unescaped strings from the player through to Python, it
>> should be secure.
>>   For maximum fun, the limited scripting language should be a subset of
>> Python.
> You have to be awfully careful about resource consumption (long 
> strings, infinite loops, etc)...
> It wouldn't be trivial to do correctly, let's leave it at that.

  There are two possibilities.  The first is that resource consumption
is irrelevant to your concerns, you just want something that can't 'rm
-rf' your files.  If the user runs you out of memory, so what?  If the
user eats a lot of CPU time, so what?  You kill the app, and it goes
away (if your OS's task switching is so primitive that you can't kill a
CPU-eating app, the problem is not in the scripting language).  This is
very easy to provide, and in real scripting applications this is all you
need 99.9% of the time.

  The second, which exists only in very theoretical ivory-tower
discussions and will never be found in the wild, is that you do care
about loops, recursion, and memory hogging.  Even so, this is a little
harder, but not by much.  You check all the strings, you check the range
of all loops, your custom list class checks maximum sizes before
appending, and you don't allow any cycles in function-calling graphs.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." -Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Wed Mar  3 11:45:52 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:45:52 +0100
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
Message-ID: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

hello,

having a list like ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'] i would like to get

[['a', '-', 'b', 'c', 'd'],
['a', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
['a', 'b', 'c', '-', 'd'],
['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c', 'd'],
['a', 'b', '-', 'c', '-', 'd'],
['a', '-', 'b', '-', 'c','-', 'd']]

that is adding successively an item between at all the available place, and
i just can't get my brain doing that :(

thank a lot if you could help...




From val at vtek.com  Sun Mar  7 14:26:18 2004
From: val at vtek.com (Val Bykoski)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 11:26:18 -0800
Subject: dynamic names
Message-ID: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>

I'm currently in a familiar to many business of filing my tax
return.  Being a big fan of Python and to make the process less painful, 
i started by writing my favored schedules A,B,C, and the most favored 
form 1040 in Python.  Everything was a real fun until i got to the
very famous motif "add lined Lx to Ly".
This is my naive (master)piece:

def sumL(L1,L2):
   # sum up a range of Ls
   tot=0.
   for L in range(L1,L2+1): 
      #nL=exec("L%s" % L)
      tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
   return tot

pythonw -u "sumL.py"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "sumL.py", line 11, in ?
    sumL(1,4)
  File "sumL.py", line 7, in sumL
    tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str'
>Exit code: 1

Any help would be life-saving.

let's-make-python-a-tax-pain-killer-ly y'rs
val


From s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk  Mon Mar 22 11:16:04 2004
From: s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk (Sarah Mount)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:16:04 -0000
Subject: Problem using py2exe
Message-ID: <c3n3g1$ba$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>

Hi everyone.

I'm trying to create an exe for a simple pygame app on Win XP.
I think I've got the latest (python, py2exe, pygame) and my setup.py
file looks like this:

| from distutils.core import setup
| import glob
| import py2exe
|
| setup(name='pyDemo',
|      windows=["pyDemo.py"],
|      data_files=[("data",
|                     ["images/sensor.png", "images/start.png"])]
| )

Simple, eh? Well, all runs well, except for the following error:

| The following modules appear to be missing
| ['AppKit', 'Foundation', 'objc']

Since pyDemo doesn't use any of these libraries, I just ignored that.

When I try to run pyDemo.exe, I get the following error report from
the MS Visual C++ Runtime Library:

| Runtime error!
| Program: C:\mypath\pyDemo.exe
| This application has requestion the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
way.
| Please contact the application's support team for more information.

Eeek! I've no idea where to go from here, so if anyone can help that
would be fantastic.

Thanks,

Sarah




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar 16 12:05:52 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:05:52 -0500
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for
	Molecular	Graphics
In-Reply-To: <5eb8fb88.0403160815.36d716a6@posting.google.com>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
	<5eb8fb88.0403160815.36d716a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405733F0.2040500@rogers.com>

Rick Muller wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
...

>>Togl is pretty much history.  I'll likely fix the installer one last 
>>time for the next bug-fix release (2.0.2) and then drop the thing.  I've 
>>been looking for someone who uses Tkinter+Togl to champion maintenance 
>>of the thing for years and never found anyone interested enough to 
>>bother.  I'm not a huge fan of Tkinter either, for that matter.
>>    
>>
>
>Help me out with this: is it that the togl project is history, or that
>the Python bindings for Togl are history? I've poked around the Togl
>website (http://togl.sf.net), and I'm not overwhelmed with new
>releases. Plus, there don't seem to be many posts to the mailing list
>in the last year.
>  
>
Togl the Tcl/Tk project is moribund, but then, it's very old technology 
that's been stable for years.  Togl is just setting up a context for 
Tkinter and hooking it up to various event handlers.  For the most part 
all GUI-library interfaces can be similarly static.  The only problems 
that come up with it in an average year are configuration and 
installation ones.  It's the Tkinter binding that's on it's way to the 
graveyard, precisely because of those configuration and installation 
headaches.

For instance, the upgrade of Tkinter to 8.4 in Python 2.3.x broke the 
Togl install for us (it's still broken).  It's possible to build and 
install the widget manually, but the automated installer fails due to 
some deep Tk or Tcl or Togl bug.  Working around that is fairly trivial, 
but it means going back and reworking the installer's Togl code... not a 
big deal... but nowhere near the top of my list of priorities for the 
few hours I get now and then to work on the project.  So, the 8 or 9 
line change doesn't get done, and the Tkinter/Togl binding languishes 
(and eventually dies).  The problems aren't huge, they just don't have 
anyone available who's actually using the library and willing to 
find/fix them.

>But I'm amazed that more people don't need to put an OpenGL window in
>a graphical widget -- seems like a common task. How do people do this?
>  
>
wxPython.

I think there's a few with GTK, Qt and Fox as well, all of which can mix 
in widgets fine, but I don't hang out on those user-groups any more to 
hear from them and thus be able to say for sure.  In all fairness, there 
are also lots of people who have, in the past, used Tkinter/Togl, but 
since they're not willing to speak up and help with the maintenance I 
don't feel the need to plug their platform (in either applicable sense 
of the word) ;) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 11:53:31 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:53:31 -0600
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <405f148a$0$10522$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405f0803$0$15618$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405f148a$0$10522$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <16479.6667.49725.771745@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Peter> Paul Rubin wrote:
    >> Python advertises a "batteries included" approach to the library
    >> which means it's supposed to include most of the stuff that users
    >> need, instead of making them download the stuff from random places.

    Peter> The 'batteries included' stuff is more a distribution / packaging
    Peter> issue than the standard library. At least coming from Tcl where
    Peter> we have a 'batteries included' distribution including all sorts
    Peter> of nice things.  However this does not mean that they are part of
    Peter> the standard library.

See:

    http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/12.html

and search for "Frank Stajano".  My guess would be that Frank's paper got
the ball rolling for the "batteries included" concept in Tcl.

Skip



From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 06:13:23 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: py2exe question
References: <c3tce0$4fn$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <lllpch7w.fsf@python.net>

Guy Robinson <guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz> writes:

> I want to package a program (using py2exe) that utilises a number of
> python scripts so that people can't see or change the source code. But
> there is one python script containing some functions I do want the
> user to be able to change. Then when they run the program again these
> functions are available to the main program. Is this possible? How
> could I do it?

Sure. Add the directory that contains this module to sys.path at
runtime, and exclude it from the build process at build time.

Thomas




From llothar at web.de  Fri Mar  5 18:29:46 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 15:29:46 -0800
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<c25hhs$jk4$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0403032108.3bfc4312@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403051529.3f05f865@posting.google.com>

simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) wrote in message news:<30260531.0403032108.3bfc4312 at posting.google.com>...
> If you've got some money to buy a Windows commercial license, or just
> want to program for Linux/GPL, then I'd say go with PyQt. The only
> thing that puts me off is the stupid licensing issues which even the
> PyQt/Qt/BlackAdder folks don't seem to grasp.
> 

Why ?
>From there website it seems to be clear:

"Includes the rights to distribute the run-time elements (except
mxODBC) with your application."

So why do you think that this is unclear. Did you found any comments
from QT ?


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 12:16:32 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:16:32 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <16477.52720.622370.755878@montanaro.dyndns.org>



    Marco> def foo(x, y)[staticmethode]: pass
    ... vs ...
    Marco> def foo(x, y) as staticmethode: pass

    Marco> Define foo with arguments x and y as staticmethode.

    Marco> Is Python now C++? Mabe I miss something why this syntax is wrong.

I believe the "as wrap1, wrap2, ..." form is one of the alternatives under
consideration, though current sentiment seems to be in favor of the
list-like syntax.

Python has a long history of borrowing good ideas from other languages.  I'm
not aware that any of this is being borrowed from C++, no matter that it has
some syntactic similarities to stuff C++ does.  Note in particular that the
construct is much more general than applying the currently available
staticmethod and classmethod builtins.  The end result need not even be a
function or class (there has been some discussion about applying this
construct to classes, but it's not as obviously valuable).  See recent
discussion in the python-dev archives for some other ideas.

Skip





From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 22 10:33:45 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:33:45 +0100
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <405f065c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405f065c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <c3n10p$29hahg$2@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> This almost certainly not go in.  You can get into a big legal hassle
> when you ship encryption binaries around, as some governments tend to
> think of them as "munitions" and regulate traffic in them.  Python
> just wants to avoid that hassle, and so leaves it up to you to put it
> together.

Actually with the Wassenaar agreement its not that bad anylonger, with 
an "open source", i.e. freely available source implementation, which 
would cover C Python quite nicely I think.

The only countries that would be excluded would more or less be excluded 
(it's a gray area) from importing Python anyway, since it's 'American 
technology'. Google the Wassenaar agreement.

And IMHO the world in this day and age actually needs more free high 
quality crypto implementations. I'd hate to see crypto not being made 
available because of some (more or less) irrational fear that one might 
step on someones toes. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead". Other 
software (likewise exported from the US) contains crypto implementations 
these days, so I see no reason that Python couldn't.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson                  (http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Mar  2 10:20:17 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:20:17 -0500
Subject: vim & python
In-Reply-To: <1078239738.8515.9.camel@dubb>
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>
	<1078239738.8515.9.camel@dubb>
Message-ID: <20040302152017.GA27401@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[gabor]

> i always wanted to ask this... why people use GVIm and not the
> normal-vim-in-a-terminal? what is the advantage of gvim?

Mainly the ability to use the mouse for some quick operations, like
positioning the cursor between two characters, moving big distances by
dragging scroll bars, changing window dimensions by dragging the bars
between windows, wandering in help through clicking on index items,
clicking within the fold margin for opening and closing folds, etc.

I'm usually not fond on the mouse, but strangely (to me at least),
`gvim' is effectively taming me into using it.  One thing which I often
do is repeating mouse fast positioning of the cursor with `.' typed with
the left hand.  It is also surprising how many `vim' operations you can
quickly do with the left hand alone! :-)

One thing which helped me a lot is that, right from the beginning, I
took the time of carefully customising `gvim' so it uses readable fonts,
consistent colours, and such things.  As for Python editing, of course,
`vim' customisation is equally available within and outside X.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 17:25:37 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 14:25:37 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
	<105oe5k5ovugi5e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403211425.15ca2d4d@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.179.1079764920.742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> In Python, that is a meaningless term to me.
> ... 
> Python is neither C++ nor Java.  It's data model is quite different.
> Imported jargon is meaningless to those not familiear with is.  Adding the
> word 'static' to 'class attribute' or 'class variable' adds nothing since
> there is no differentiation from a hypothetical 'non-static' class
> attribute.
> 
---------------
"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<105oe5k5ovugi5e at news.supernews.com>...
> 
> So what? This is Python, not C++, Java or any other language.
> ... 
> Static generally means "something that does not change." The fact
> that C++ in particular abuses the word has no relevance.
---------------

No relevance, huh?

(a) What is in the Python Programming FAQ, then?

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming.html#how-do-i-create-static-class-data-and-static-class-methods

Are you saying that this is a C++ Programming FAQ?

(b) Search in Python mailing list for keywords "static variable"
(quoted as single keyword) and "meaningless". There are exactly two
entries, by authors John Roth and Terry Reedy. The fact is,
historically speaking, so far there have been only two person in the
Python community that have claimed "static variables" are meaningless
in Python. Search again with "class static" as single (quoted)
keyword, and you see plenty of people in the Python community talking
about class-static issues, and none of them ever said that it is
meaningless.

So, how come all other people can discuss about class-static issues
without problem, and only you two have to jump out with semantic
issues and say it is meaningless?

I don't understand. What is so special about you two? Are you guys the
Real Academia de la Lengua Pythonica or something like that? :)

Hung Jung


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar  3 16:23:20 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:23:20 -0500
Subject: function arguments passed by reference
References: <mailman.8.1078344338.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104cj8vkrqb6i20@news.supernews.com>


"Marcello Pietrobon" <teiffel at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.8.1078344338.736.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> My background is C++
>
> I would like to know for sure if it is possible to pass a value by
> reference to a function AND having it changed by the function itself
>
>
> def changeValue( text ):
>     text = 'c'
>     print text
>     return
>
>  >>> txt = 'a'
>  >>>changeValue( txt )
> 'c'
>  >>>print txt
> 'a'
>
> Question 1)
> I guess that in Python ( differently than in C++)  somehow txt is passed
> by reference even if its value is not changed.
> Is this true ?
>
> Question 2)
> How can I define a function that changes the value of txt ( without
> having to return the changed value ) ?
>
> Question 3)
> Is there some documentation talking extensively about this ?

The key concept is that everything is an object, and all objects
are passed by reference in the sense that what's bound to the
funtion's parameters is the objects that were passed in.

However, you cannot affect the bindings in the calling environment.
Regardless of what you do (unless you do some deep magic with
the invocation stack) nothing is going to affect the bindings in the
caller.

So you can rebind anything you want to the parameters within
the function, and it will have no effect on the calling environment.

On the other hand, if you mutate a mutable object that was passed
as a parameter, that change will be visible after you return.

For  example:

def foo(bar):
    bar = "shazoom"

a = "shazam"
foo(a)

The result is that a is still "shazam."

However, if you do this:

def foo(bar):
    bar.append("shazoom")

a = ["shazam"]
foo(a)

the result is:

["shazam", "shazoom"]

HTH
John Roth

"shazoom" ::= ["strength", "health", "aptitude", "zeal", "ox, power of",
"ox, power of another", "money"]

whatever the value you passed in remains.
>
>
> Thank you,
> Marcello
>
>
>




From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Wed Mar 31 22:29:29 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:29:29 GMT
Subject: proper use of braces in Python
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qkAac.23$3E1.10@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <t0Mac.101688$8G2.52267@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> 
> 
> "Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.148.1080691972.20120.python-list at python.org...
>>
>> >>Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
>> >>next line" wars.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >    int main (void)
>> >    {
>> >        if (true)
>> >        {
>> >        }
>> >
>> >        return 0;
>> >    }
>> >
>> >There is no other way.
>> >
>> >
>> No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!
>>
>> int main ( void ) {
>>     if ( true ) {
>>         return 1;
>>     }
>>     return 0;
>> }
>>
>> This is clearly better. Compact yet easy to read. I try formatting my
>> Python code exactly like this and it always complains about my braces..
>> clearly wrong.
>>
> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/wiki?WhereDoTheBracesGo
> 
> Not having to deal with this #$*^!!@ is just about my favorite feature of
> Python!  (Although I'm not excited about getting into a thread on an issue
> that is so flame-prone.  Honestly, though. "There is no other way."?  "This
> is clearly better."?  I really interpret your stance as "This is the way I'm
> used to."  What's annoying is the added "... and therefore superior."
> implication.  The visual cues provided by brace placement are extremely
> subjective, and what is "clearly better" to one is confusing to another.)


Paul,

What you're seeing here is a couple Pythonistas mocking C and Java
programmers who take these sorts of arguments dead-seriously.  (But
not Perl programmers: they don't actually use braces. :)

Here at Python, we like to think that we argue about more important
things.  It's part of the Zen of Python: there should only be one way
to do it.  Because when there's more than one way to do it, you get
arguments like this.

"More than one way to do it" has led to the space vs. tab arguments we
have here.  As far as I'm concerned, the biggest problem with spaces
and tabs is that you can use either, i.e., there's *unnecessarily*
more than one way to do it.  And the Python Gods are rightly getting
rid of that.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From s.meyer at technology-network.de  Wed Mar 17 04:26:45 2004
From: s.meyer at technology-network.de (Sebastian Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:26:45 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.17.09.26.45.125309@technology-network.de>

Hi Newsgroup,

i have some problems with using threads and signals in one program.
In my program i have three threads running, one for checking a directory
at a specified interval to see if new data arrived, one waiting for work
and the main thread.

My problem is the following:
I want to shutdown the program via a signal, so i used the signal module.
I know, that signal handling mus be done by the main thread, the signal
handler is installed by the main thread. Now, when both threads are
running and i send the signal to the main thread at my xterm via 
kill -SIGUSR1 PID, it seems that the main program ignores it or does
not execute the signal handler. When i dont use threads, the signal
handler functions properly.

I ll post some code, maybe this is more explainig:

--- CODE ---
import threading
import os,signal

# *** signal handler ***
def shutdown(signum, arg):
    global threads
    
    for th in threads:
        # the shutdown method sets an internal 
        # flag in the derived thread class to 
        # notify the thread to shutdown
        # (implemented using threading.Event)
        th.shutdown()

# *** main ***

# install the signal handler
signal.signal(signal.SIGUSR1, shutdown)

# both classes, TimedDirectoryCheck and BatchProcessor are derived from
# threading.Thread
threads = {}
threads["dircheck"] = TimedDirectoryCheck("/tmp/dpf/notify")
threads["process"] = BatchProcessor()

# start the threads
for th in threads:
    th.start()

--- CODE ---

thats is ... now both threads are running and doing their work. When
i now want to shutdown and send the signal, nothing happens, even
the signal handler will not be called?

Have i missed something? I ve red a lot about threads and signals, 
seems that it sometimes causes strange program behavior...

Anyone any idea what i did wrong?? Thanks for your help in advance..

Sebastian
 


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Wed Mar 24 10:31:06 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:31:06 +0100
Subject: zxJDBC driver error
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F0068A0D8F@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Are you sure the jar file with the mysql JDBC classes is in your classpath?

cheers,

pieter 

Come and visit us at Drupa!
Hall 4 Stand B10

Creo EMEA S.A.
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of vincent Salaun
Sent: 24 March 2004 16:15
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: zxJDBC driver error

    hi all,

i'm trying to use the zxJDBC module to work on my mySql database, but :
 >>> from com.ziclix.python.sql import zxJDBC
 >>> d, u, p, v = "jdbc:mysql://localhost/test", "user", "pass", 
"org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver"
 >>> db = zxJDBC.connect(d, u, p, v)

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
DatabaseError: driver not found

any idea ?

thx
vince

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar  7 12:50:21 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:50:21 -0500
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-5F604D.12502107032004@reader2.panix.com>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) wrote:
> Today I tried to implement some sort of unit testing into my program
> for the first time, and must admit to being a little disillusioned
> with the process. Mainly, my issue is that in my program, the classes
> are so tightly coupled that testing in isolation is next to
> impossible.

Yup, this is often a problem when you first start unit testing.  Tightly 
coupled classes are difficult to test.

Tightly coupled classes cause lots of problems too.  They make it hard 
to understand how your system works, and they make it hard to change out 
components later.  One of the things that unit testing does is it forces 
you to write classes so they are easily testable, which usually means 
not a lot of inter-class dependencies.

> The main problem stems from the fact that I try to ensure that all my
> objects are created in a working state. This often means passing
> various other objects to the __init__ function.

That's fine.  Let's imagine you've got:

class Foo:
   def __init__ (self, language, timeZone, hairColor):
      self.language = language
      self.timeZone = timeZone
      self.hairColor = hairColor

   def getBreakfastFood (self):
      do a lot of stuff involving language, etc
      return (food)

class Bar:
   def __init__ (self, foo):
      self.foo = foo

On the surface, it looks like you can't test Bar without having a 
working Foo.  But maybe you can provide a stub implementation of Foo 
which does just enough to allow Bar to be tested:

class FooStub:
   def getBreakfastFood (self):
      return "spam"

then you can do in your TestCase class, something like:

def setUp (self):
   foo = FooStub ()
   self.bar = Bar (foo)
  
and you're all set.  This assumes that there's something about Bar's 
behavior which depends on foo having a getBreakfastFood () method which 
actually works.  If the classes were less coupled, Bar might do nothing 
with the foo it was passed other than treat it as opaque data to be 
retrieve by a getFoo() method. In which case, your stub class could be 
even simplier:

class FooStub:
   pass

and you might even be able to get away with no FooStub class at all, but 
simply instantiating your Bar test object with a constant:

def setUp (self):
   self.bar = Bar ("foo")

This is where the dynamic nature of Python really shines.  Something 
like C++ or Java would make you jump through a lot more hoops to make 
sure you instantiated your Bar with a valid Foo.  But the basic 
principle is the same in any OOPL; the more tighly coupled your classes 
are, the more difficult it is to test, maintain, and understand the 
system.

> One way out of this would be to reduce coupling. This would allow me
> to test objects in relative isolation, but it would increase the
> amount of explicit coupling code that I'd have to execute normally.
> This extra code then becomes a potential source of new bugs.

One way or another, your classes need to interact, and the code that 
implements those interactions needs to exist (and thus needs to be 
tested).  The question is, where do you put that code?  Do you bury it 
inside the classes, making it difficult to test both the underlying 
classes and their interactions, or do you factor it out to someplace 
where you can test each piece in isolation?


From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Mar 18 03:27:07 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:27:07 +0100
Subject: attributes of Python classes
In-Reply-To: <roy-2641A9.19463117032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com>
	<4058F086.490C215B@alcyone.com>
	<roy-2641A9.19463117032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c3bmf8$6b$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Roy Smith a ?crit :
> In article <4058F086.490C215B at alcyone.com>,
>  Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have started using classes with Python and have a question
>>>about their use.
>>>
>>>In Python, 'attributes are all "public" and "virtual" in C++
>>>terms; they're all accessible everywhere and all looked up
>>>dynamically at runtime' (Quoting "Learning Python", 2nd. ed.,
>>>p367). It seems to me that two good conventions are to
>>>
>>>(1) initialize all attributes in the __init__ function
>>>(2) avoid creating new attributes elsewhere that are not initialized
>>>in
>>>    __init__
>>>
>>>I have not followed these conventions so far, and sometimes
>>>it is difficult for me to tell what attributes an instance of
>>>a class has. Are these conventions good?
>>
>>Yes, I think so, provided a key feature of the class in question isn't
>>that it's inherently dynamic (in which case it's inherently infeasible
>>to do this) -- an example might be a class that you'd like to mimic the
>>interface of a module, so it effectively acts like a dictionary but it
>>allows attribute access to access the dictionary as well.
>>
>>I certainly follow them as best as is possible in my own code; I can
>>only think of once instance in an old project where I don't do that, and
>>it's marked as ugly in the code.
> 
> 
> I agree that initializing all attributes in __init__ is a good idea.  
> Even if you initialize them to None and overwrite them in some other 
> method before ever accessing the value, it's still a nice way to help 
> soem future reader understand your class better.  If it's a good idea to 
> have self-documenting code, I guess it's an even better idea to have 
> executable comments :-)

I agree BUT there is 2 cases were I don't follow this rules :

1) I have a project that creates a lot of objects by reading a file. The 
time is twice as needed if I initialize first the attribute and then set 
them from the values given by the file...

2) When using an algorithm that need to decorate the object, it's easier 
to just add attribute to the object rather than create a dictionnary or 
something like that.

But for te sake of documentation, your rules sound good to me. For the 
first problem, I don't know how to solve it nicely.

The second is not a problem because, the algorithm know what he's doing.

Yermat



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 31 15:20:24 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 15:20:24 -0500
Subject: Syntax counts (was Re: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes)
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<8ef9bea6.0403282102.632ae427@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4f968$kjs$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <8ef9bea6.0403282102.632ae427 at posting.google.com>,
Hung Jung Lu <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I often don't know how to take it when I see people talking about OOP
>by using definitions like: polymorphism, data hiding, etc. As if these
>definitions were something of utmost importance. To me, OOP is just a
>tool for factorizing code, just like using for-loops and using
>functions to factor out repetitive code. Polymorphism, data hiding,
>etc. are all secondary features: code factorization is the heart and
>soul of OOP. Class-based OOP is a way of factorizing. Prototype-based
>is just another way of factorizing, which seems to be more elegant:
>instead of two concepts (classes and instances), you unify them and
>have only one concept (objects). Moreover, in a prototype-based
>language like Io, even scopes and objects are unified.

Seems to me that Lisp is the counter-datapoint that disproves, not your
thesis at the theoretical level, but the ways in which your thesis gets
applied in practice.  From my POV, Python demonstrates that syntax
counts and that using different syntactical forms for different kinds of
factorization makes people enormously productive.

So saying "just factorization" misses the point IMO.  Factorization
needs to be elegantly defined and easy mechanisms for applying it
created.  What you call the secondary features are the user interfaces
for factorization and they are a necessary component for the successful
use of factorization.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Mar 14 09:34:17 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:34:17 +0100
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <C46848FC-747D-11D8-9341-000A959CB2EC@netmail.to>
References: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<C46848FC-747D-11D8-9341-000A959CB2EC@netmail.to>
Message-ID: <20040314143417.GA2737@nl.linux.org>

Wayne Folta wrote:
> import string
> 
> unshifted = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'
> shifted   = 'nopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLM'
> rot13_table = string.maketrans(unshifted, shifted)
> 
> user = string.translate ('sjkeiulkje', rot13_table)
> passwd = string.translate ('eorpoipoe', rot13_table)

This is actually totally equal to:

'eorpoipoe'.encode('rot13')

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 14/03 13:55 UTC:
	12.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 10.3 m/s SSW (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar  2 08:20:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:20:37 -0000
Subject: network servers
References: <930ba99a.0403020250.66d3536e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10492h56p0teh9e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <930ba99a.0403020250.66d3536e at posting.google.com>,
Sridhar R <sridharinfinity at yahoo.com> wrote:
>We're planning to write a server for handling atleast 1000 and atmost
>4000 clients.  The connection is basically (TCP)
>connect-send-disconnect type.  So no client will open up its
>connection forever, except for the small time duration of sending the
>message.  This is something like online programming contest, where
>clients will submit their programs for evaluation and server will
>return the results (after sometime). I though of writing the server
>part in C and use Python for client.
>
>Is it possible to use python for that high performance serving?  Note:
>There is only one physical machine.

Yes.  It's even realistic, and advisable.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 18:10:14 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:10:14 -0800
Subject: How to use Sockets with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>
References: <pan.2004.03.12.21.04.01.703000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c35daa$ka7$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I am having this problem:
> I use Python for my teaching and right now we are trying to implement some
> sort of very simple graphical game the pupils can play across the
> Internet. For this, we use wxPython.
> 
> Now it has turned out that wxPython does not implement wxWidget sockets,
> so we have to use Python sockets instead. Implementing a separate thread
> for this would be too complicated and I am going to use the wxIdle event
> to do the socket processing, as the amount of data sent from one player to
> the other is very small.
> 
> Could somebody show me, how to use Pythin socket in "polling mode" and
> how to achieve this? I am not expecting a complete program, an outline of
> the logic woul suffice.

I would suggest you stay away from wxIdle events, if only because they 
only occur under certain circumstances (in Windows, they seem to only 
occur when the mouse is moved over the window).

Start with asyncore, and get everything working properly with that.

When it is working properly, do something like the following for your GUI:

import asyncore
import yourasyncorelibrary

         #in the __init__ method of your main window class
         #set up the server/clients/whatever

         #using the new namespace
         self.timer = wx.Timer(self, wx.NewId())
         EVT_TIMER(self, self.timer.GetId(), self.SocketPoller)
         self.timer.Start(10, wx.TIMER_CONTINUOUS)

     def SocketPoller(self, event):
         asyncore.poll()

If you properly designed your server and clients, the above should just 
work.  If you are willing to post information about your architecture or 
protocol, I may be able to help you more.

  - Josiah


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 14 16:19:53 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:19:53 -0600
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
In-Reply-To: <4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
References: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
	<mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list@python.org>
	<4054b472$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20040314211953.GA9639@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 08:43:51AM +1300, Colin Brown wrote:
> "Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.15.1079236344.745.python-list at python.org...
> > I'd agree that time.sleep(interval) should do the same thing on all
> > platforms when interval<0, but I'd rather see it always raise an
> > exception than sleep for 0 seconds.
> 
> I am 100% with you that time.sleep() should perform the same on all
> platforms but would rather the sleep(0) for negative args because:
>     1.    2**31 seconds is about 68 years so interpreting a negative integer
> as unsigned is practically useless

I was not arguing that it was too useful to be able to sleep for 68
years (and certainly not that the argument -1 should be interpreted to
mean 68 years), but rather that sleep(-1) is a TypeError or ValueError
because it's not in the range of valid arguments to sleep.

>     2.    A common usage of sleep is with the difference of two values. If
> it raises an exception on negative numbers then when one takes the
> difference of say a timestamp and current-time (real-values), to be safe you
> would need to put the difference in a temporary variable, check that for
> negative and only sleep for positive values - not very elegant.

def unsurprising_sleep(d):
    if d < 0: return
    time.sleep(d)

> Whatever is decided, the behaviour needs to be documented under time.sleep!

    sleep(secs)
        Suspend execution for the given number of seconds. The argument
        may be a floating point number to indicate a more precise
        sleep time. The actual suspension time may be less than that
        requested because any caught signal will terminate the sleep()
        following execution of that signal's catching routine. Also,
        the suspension time may be longer than requested by an arbitrary
        amount because of the scheduling of other activity in the system.

+       The behavior when secs is less than zero is undefined.  In particular,
+       a future version of Python may interpret 'time.sleep(-1); other code'
+       to cause 'other code' to execute beginning one second before the call
+       to time.sleep.

You can find my proposed enhancement to the documentation above.

Jeff



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 16:44:06 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:44:06 GMT
Subject: Hiding console window
References: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <GKo6c.7942$CJ5.4983@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"Lucas Raab" <pythongnome at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678 at newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I'm looking to play a joke on a friend and I'm wondering if there's a way
to
> not show or hide the DOS console. My friend doesn't have python so I have
to
> compile it to an EXE.
>
> TIA
>
>

In response to Peter's question, what I meant when I said hide was to hide
the console while running the program. Essentially, it would run in the
background. The application would run, but you wouldn't see any sign of it.
In response to Jorgen and Josef, unfortunately it didn't work. Here's the
code for it. It may be a little messy, but I wasn't aiming for perfection:

import pygame
import time

def sleep():
    #Sleep for 5 minutes
    time.sleep(300)
def play():
    #Initialize pygame
    pygame.init()
    #Initialize mixer
    pygame.mixer.init()
    #Load and play sound1
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/sound1.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play hazards of retreating
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/hazards_of_retreating.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play bring it on
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/bring_it_on.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play freaked by flood
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/freaked_by_flood.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play grunty thirst
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/grunty_thirst.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play joe has lost it
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/joe_has_lost_it.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play the french grunt
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\the_french_grunt.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play stacker e3 outtake2
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\stacker_e3_outtake2.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play poor running anatomy
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\poor_running_anatomy.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    sleep()
    #Load and play bring it on
    pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\bring_it_on.mp3')
    pygame.mixer.music.play()
    #Quit playing and close pygame
    pygame.mixer.quit()
    pygame.quit()

#Start the program
play()

You may raise your eyebrows at the filenames, but as I said its a joke I'm
playing. The sound clips are based off the game Halo. Just fill in your own
files instead of mine.

TIA




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 17 13:07:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:07:45 -0500
Subject: simple http server
In-Reply-To: <c39rul$dri$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
References: <c39rul$dri$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <Ze6dnc7cZq9sDsXdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Gelo Ilzi wrote:

> I've created a subdir 'cgi-bin' which contains a python script. Now when I
> enter this directory, i.e., go to the url http://localhost:8000/cgi-bin/  my
> browser shows:
> 
>    Error response
>    Error code 403.
>    Message: CGI script is not a plain file ('/cgi-bin/').
>    Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will not
> help.
> 
> Plain html pages are ok.
> 
> It seems I misunderstand something very basical. Could somebody help me
> please.

What did you expect to happen when you went to that URL?

-Peter


From hufman at cobalty.com  Fri Mar  5 16:13:57 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 15:13:57 -0600
Subject: How to find size of file?
References: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<c2ai0g$1t4u$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94A39ADB3A783GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>

Yermat <loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net> wrote in
news:c2ai0g$1t4u$1 at biggoron.nerim.net: 

> Walter Huf a ?crit :

> def sizeOf(f):
>      f.seek(0,2)
>      return f.tell()
> 

Thank you!


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Mar 26 09:24:03 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:24:03 +0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
	<40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403260545.262ee105@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7i65cr660s.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Axel" == Axel Boldt <axelboldt at yahoo.com> writes:

    Axel> l=[] l.append(l) Is l well-founded? Both answers "yes" and "no"
    Axel> are consistent with the above definition. If you write a program
    Axel> to determine whether a given list is well-founded, it will run
    Axel> into an infinite loop.

That depends on how you write the program.  I can easily give you a program
that will tell you either this is or is not, depending on whether you like
it one way or the other---provided that I have a little bit of memory to
play with, or I'm allowed to look at my own back-trace.

Regards,
Isaac.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 14:46:12 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:46:12 -0600
Subject: Timeouts with urllib2
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0403151037.3e78dca9@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0403151037.3e78dca9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16470.2052.504519.159753@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Fazer> I was wondering what's the best way of setting timeouts when
    Fazer> working with urllib2.

Using 2.3+:

    >>> import socket
    >>> socket.setdefaulttimeout(3)
    >>> import urllib2
    >>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.musi-cal.com/search?performers=Greg+Brown")
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 130, in urlopen
        return _opener.open(url, data)
      File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 338, in open
        response = self._open(req, data)
      File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 356, in _open
        '_open', req)
      File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 317, in _call_chain
        result = func(*args)
      File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 988, in http_open
        return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
      File "/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 971, in do_open
        raise URLError(err)
    urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error timed out>

Skip



From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Wed Mar 24 20:05:33 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (dw)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:05:33 GMT
Subject: monitoring a directory
In-Reply-To: <c3tar3$3cf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <c3tar3$3cf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <tfq8c.1266$JO3.3289@attbi_s04>

Guy Robinson wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> What would be the most efficient or 'clever' way to monitor a directory 
> for file additions/ modifications on windows?
> 
> Currently I'm looping through the directory with a 1 sec delay. But 
> doesn't seem that clever.
> 
> Guy

This page might give you some hints:

http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml

-Don


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 17:37:17 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:37:17 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:52:27 GMT, Dang Griffith
<noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>wrote:
>
>>The 'print' statement is just shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write' with
>>some convenience features suitable for most users.  If you need
>>something else, just define your own shortcut, don't deprecate a
>>statement that is exactly what most users want.
>
>'print' is not a shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write'.
>'print' is a statement.  'sys.stdout.write' is a function.
>You can't define a shortcut for a statement.
>    --dang

To the best of my knowledge, the word 'shortcut', is in common
idiomatic use in English and refers to a quick and convenient means of
achieving the same goal, by obvious analogy to the literal meaning of
shortcut as a route to a given destination which is shorter than the
normal route.

The fact that in this case the means happens to be a statement as
opposed to a function doesn't seem relevant to me. And the fact that
programmers cannot define their own custom shortcuts in this way seems
equally irrelevant.

Actually, your protest seems analogous to saying 'that isn't a
shortcut to the highstreet because its a back alley - the normal route
is a proper road'. In literal shortcuts, the classification of roads,
back alleys, dirt tracks etc is irrelevant, and I see no reason to
fuss about technicalities such as the type of syntax in an idiomatic
use.

Similarly, I cannot build my own custom dirt tracks and back alleys,
yet I can still refer to existing ones as shortcuts.

If there was some specialist definition of the word 'shortcut' in
Python I might agree that David had made a poor choice of words, but
I'm not aware of any and even if there is that doesn't make normal
English usage invalid.

'print' is a quick and convenient way of doing much the same thing as
'sys.stdout.write'. It's a shortcut. I honestly can't see any logic in
claiming otherwise.

Even those unwanted spaces can be seen as analogous to the muck you
get all over your shoes in many literal shortcuts ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Mar 17 21:05:27 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:05:27 -0500
Subject: attributes of Python classes
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405903E7.3060502@rogers.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

>I have started using classes with Python and have a question
>about their use.
>
>In Python, 'attributes are all "public" and "virtual" in C++ 
>terms; they're all accessible everywhere and all looked up 
>dynamically at runtime' (Quoting "Learning Python", 2nd. ed., 
>p367). It seems to me that two good conventions are to 
>
>(1) initialize all attributes in the __init__ function
>(2) avoid creating new attributes elsewhere that are not initialized in
>    __init__
>
>I have not followed these conventions so far, and sometimes
>it is difficult for me to tell what attributes an instance of
>a class has. Are these conventions good?
>  
>

I actually go a very different way.  Use properties/descriptors for 
everything, with the properties declared directly in the class 
definition something like so:

class SessionImporter( sessiondata.SessionData ):
    """Holder for importing data with an interactive session

    Primary purpose of this class is to provide a way to safely
    store partially-constructed records which may reference either
    database-resident records, or other partially-constructed
    records.
    """
    sourceText = common.StringProperty(
        "sourceText", """Source of the data being imported""",
        defaultValue = "",
    )
    newObjectID = common.IntegerProperty(
        "newObjectID", """Sequence for the newObjectID of newly created 
objects""",
        defaultValue = 0,
    )
    newObjects = common.DictionaryProperty(
        "newObjects", """New objects, indexed by newObjectID""",
    )
    rootObjects = common.ListProperty(
        "rootObjects", """IDs for each root-object to be stored""",
    )

and then use generic __init__ and the like that can take any set of 
specified properties.  This way each attribute is fully documented, can 
have intelligently calculated defaults, can be initialised anywhere, 
etceteras, but there's not the huge collections of boilerplate 
initialisation, copying, etceteras code that's needed with bare 
attributes.  The fact that it also allows for type-checking and 
coercian, and generic code for working with properties, is a nice 
side-effect :)

There's still the possibility of having properties without values, but 
if that's undesired, just declare each with the default of None or "" or 
whatever you like *for that particular property*.

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 31 08:19:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:19:49 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mMSdnZ2BVPLrWPfdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> GUI's seem to be more like documents than programs, so I wonder why
> we're not considering more declarative type interface builders.  

Mitch Kapor talked about this, I believe, as being part of the
Chandler project's approach, at the Birds-Of-a-Feather session on
Chandler at PyCon last week.

There might be notes about this somewhere, maybe in the docs on
http://www.osafoundation.org/

-Peter


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sun Mar  7 02:12:37 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:12:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6Fu2c.2306$G3.18772@localhost>
	<mailman.84.1078631339.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2ei14$aht$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> pisze:

> So I can't recommend wxPython wholeheartedly, it has cost me
> much more efforts than I wanted to invest.
> On the other hand, it is free, and it does it's job, in the
> end. As a positive add-on, there is Boa Constructor, which
> I happily use to create my wxPython stuff. It is still young,
> very ambitious but not really ready, but I like it very much.

I have the very same opinion. Coming from Delphi, I found wxPython
relatively easy and similar to some degree, but when I tried to do some
less usual things with wxGrid, I've had hard time and spend many days
looking for some specific answers. OTOH, I use PyQt for ~6 months and
had no such problems, but the licensing restricts its use to X11 -- no
big deal for me, but may be unacceptable for others.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Mar 10 06:41:08 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:41:08 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20040310114108.GA4301@nl.linux.org>

Aahz wrote:
> * Long ``import`` statements can be difficult to write, requiring
>   various contortions to fit Pythonic style guidelines.

> Instead, it should be possible to use Python's standard grouping
> mechanism (parentheses) to write the ``import`` statement::
> 
>     from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>         LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)
> 
> This part of the proposal already has BDFL approval.

Why are the parentheses necessary?
What's wrong with:

from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button,
    Entry, Canvas, Text,
    LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL

...where Python's normal indentation mechanism provides the grouping?

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 10/03 11:25 UTC:
	2.0?C light snow overcast wind 5.4 m/s NE (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Thu Mar 18 22:35:27 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:35:27 -0800
Subject: tkinter, threads and asyncore together
In-Reply-To: <mailman.143.1079650121.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.143.1079650121.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3dpvl$8tm$1@news.service.uci.edu>

duane voth wrote:

>>#to control asyncore
>>while 1:
>>    asyncore.loop(.1)
>>    if not fromgui.empty():
>>        #handle messages from GUI
> 
> The above doesn't work for me - asyncore.loop(<anything>) always blocks.
> The asyncore.poll(timeout=0.01) functions however works fine.  Thus I have:
> 
>         while 1:
>             tkinter.dooneevent(tkinter.DONT_WAIT)
>             asyncore.poll(0.01)
> 

Sorry about that, I meant poll, but my fingers said loop.  I could have 
sworn that I mentioned it in my followup:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=b2ddd726d59cdfe6&seekm=c0e4g5%24mug%241%40news.service.uci.edu#link5

  - Josiah


From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  1 08:57:53 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:57:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN]PyCrash 0.4pre1 released
Message-ID: <7b3322fb289581d86ed7895c5fe3dd20.46955@mygate.mailgate.org>

Hi,
a new version of PyCrash is released new features and improvement.You
can download it at:


http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98026&package_id=111026&release_id=220726

Changelog:

* PyCrash now handles correctly new-style classes
* Added onExceptionRaised() method to PyCrash class, which notifies when
  and how many times an uncaught exception is raised
* Now all PyCrash classes inherit from "object"
* Added new utils.Encrypt.py module, that contains the
  EncryptedPyCrash class. This class allows developers to
  automatically encrypt crash dumps using RSA algorithm, in order to
  protect sensible data
* Added two scripts: keygen.py and decrypt.py that allow user to
  generate public/private key pair and decrypt file generated by
  EncryptedPyCrash class.

Moreover, starting from release 0.2.1, PyCrash is distributed under the
terms
of LGPL software license.

A next version of PyCrash Viewer will come soon, in order to support
these
new features.

Enjoy!
_______________________________________________________________________
About PyCrash Project:
PyCrash is a Run-Time Exception Dumper which handles uncaught exceptions
during the execution of Python programs and collects information about
the program context. PyCrash can be very useful in report bug
information,
because the programmer can easily analyse the program execution context
of the crashed application.

Major information collected by PyCrash in the crash dump is:

- Information about operating system, Python and Python Standard
  Library version and general information about the program that is
  crashed (e.g., program name and version, time at witch program
  started and ended, and so on)

- Information about the uncaught exceptions, like the exception type,
  the context (namely method name) in which the exception occurred and
  the exception value

- General information about variables state

- Information about the stack of each thread, like the list of stack
  frames, the variables value in each stack frame, and so on

- General information about source code, like variable and function
  position in source file that can be useful for the programmer to find
  quickly bugs in source tree

The format of the crash dump file generated by PyCrash is XML, so the
programmer can easily read this file to understand why the program is
crashed.

Now, is also available a GUI browser, named PyCrash Viewer, which allows
developers to analyze quickly and easily PyCrash crash dump files in a
graphical manner.

Next version of PyCrash will include at least these features:
* HTML dumper, that stores crash dump in HTML format rather then
  XML

More information can be found at:

http://www.pycrash.org

Thanks!

<P><A HREF="http://www.pycrash.org";>PyCrash 0.4pre1</A> - a crash
handler for Python written applications. (01-03-04)</P>


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From me at privacy.net  Thu Mar 11 06:34:43 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 06:34:43 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:48:35 +0100,
Josef Meile <jmeile at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Is there something missing you think should be there?  There's no particular
>> reason a PEP needs to be continually updated.  In particular, notions of
>> good Python style haven't changed a lot over the past ten years.
>> Skip
> I agree, those are good guidelines, but I don't agree with:

> - Don't compare boolean values to True or False using == (bool
>    types are new in Python 2.3):

>          No:  if greeting == True:
>          Yes: if greeting:

> What would happened if you do:

>>>> a='test'
>>>> if a.find('foo'):
> ...    print "foo was found"
> ...
> foo was found

a.find does not return a boolean, so that particular style guideline
does not apply.

>>> if a.find( 'foo' ) == True:
...  print 'foo was found'

probably isn't what you want either.  ;-)

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 24 20:16:23 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:16:23 +0000
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <alc460hokb7sj39m06022m4ao5gp9cdbcu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:49:57 GMT, Kenneth McDonald
<kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote:

>For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
>and then find out the following information about functions and
>methods defined within it:
>
>1) Parameter names and order
>2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
>3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
>parameter list.
>
>Reading documentation about function objects, the only
>relevant information I can extract is a tuple representing
>default param values, which is not useful to me.
>
>I know I could probably do this by parsing the module, but
>I would strongly prefer a simpler way. I'd have thought that,
>like docstrings and many other properties, the parameter info
>would also be stored with function objects.
>

Check out the inspect module. In particular the getargspec function.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From knight at baldmt.com  Wed Mar 24 22:28:21 2004
From: knight at baldmt.com (Steven Knight)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 19:28:21 -0800
Subject: Scons help!
References: <f11a275e.0403241129.59f48eaf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e940d504.0403241928.5f16bfec@posting.google.com>

Anuj--
                                                                                
One of my searches turned up your message to comp.lang.python.
It would have been more appropriate for you to send this message to the
SCons users mailing list, users at scons.tigris.org.
                                                                                
As to your specific problem:
                                                                                
> opt = Options(None, ARGUMENTS)
> opt.AddOptions(
>  EnumOption(
>   'COMPILER',
>   'The compiler you want to use',
>   'cl',
>   ['cl','gcc']))
>
> env = Environment(options=opt)
>
> CLDEBUGCPPFLAGS = r'/nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "_DEBUG"
> /D "WIN32" /D "_WINDOWS" /D "BOBO_DLL_EXPORT" /D "USE_STANDARD_HEAP"
> /YX /FD /c'
>
> env['BUILDERS']['cl'] = Builder(action = 'cl '+ CLDEBUGCPPFLAGS +' %SOURCE')
> env['BUILDERS']['gcc'] = Builder(action = 'gcc -co %TARGET %SOURCE')
>
>
> env['BUILDERS']['MyCompiler'] = env['BUILDERS'][env['COMPILER']]
>
> env.MyCompiler('myheap.cpp')
>
>
> and here is the output.
>
> F:\work\src\mallocheap>scons
> scons: Reading SConscript files ...
> scons: done reading SConscript files.
> scons: Building targets ...
> cl /nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "_DEBUG" /D "WIN32" /D
> "_WINDOWS" /D "BOBO_DLL_EXPORT" /D "USE_STANDARD_HEAP"
>  /YX /FD /c %SOURCE
> Command line warning D4024 : unrecognized source file type '%SOURCE',
> object file assumed
> Command line warning D4027 : source file '%SOURCE' ignored
> Command line warning D4021 : no action performed
> scons: done building targets.
                                                                                
First, it would help if you would use the correct SCons syntax for
construction variable interpolation.  The proper syntax is $SOURCE
(note dollar sign), not %SOURCE.
                                                                                
Second, trying to do this with custom Builders is making things much more
difficult than they need to be.  SCons already comes with canned tool
specifications for Microsoft Visual C++ and GCC (and a host of other tools).
It would be a lot easier to let SCons do the hard stuff for you.
                                                                                
First, you need to account for the fact that the tool specification in
SCons is named "msvc," not "cl".  To allow your users to specify
"COMPILER=cl" on the command line, you just need to add a dictionary to
map "cl" to the correct SCons tool name of "msvc":
                                                                                
        opt.AddOptions(
         EnumOption(
          'COMPILER',
          'The compiler you want to use',
          'msvc',
          ['msvc','gcc'],
          {'cl':'msvc'}))
                                                                                
Then, you can let SCons initialize the Environment as follows, allowing
it to expand $COMPILER to the specified value:
                                                                                
        env = Environment(options=opt,
                          tools=['default', '$COMPILER'])
                                                                                
After that, you can use env.Program(), env.Library(), etc. to build
whatever you want.
                                                                                
        --SK


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 11:19:07 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:19:07 +0100
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
References: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c27ktr$590$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Boogie El Aceitoso wrote:

> How can I catch a generic exception (without knowing a priori what
> exception it will be)?

If you catch the generic Exception, there is a small chance that your except
suite will be bypassed:

>>> try:
...     raise "yes, it's deprecated"
... except Exception, e:
...     print "will we ever see this?"
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
yes, it's deprecated

This seems to work:

>>> try:
...     raise KeyError
... except:
...     print sys.exc_info()
...
(<class exceptions.KeyError at 0x4024892c>, <exceptions.KeyError instance at
0x40290d0c>, <traceback object at 0x4028f414>)
>>> try:
...     raise "so what"
... except:
...     print sys.exc_info()
...
('so what', None, <traceback object at 0x4028f324>)
>>>

Not very elegant though. But then, not knowing what to catch is something
that should be avoided in the first place.

Peter



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Mar 12 10:29:18 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:29:18 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<2j12505t4oaniqq7607t3pekulm0e979cu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <OddUAls/KHOD089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <2j12505t4oaniqq7607t3pekulm0e979cu at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:10:59 -0500, "Ellinghaus, Lance"
><lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote:
>
>>> > Other surprises:  Deprecating reload()
>>
>>>Reload doesn't work the way most people think
>>>it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
>>>they stay around. They aren't replaced.
>>
>>>It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
>>>doesn't do what the idea promises.
>>
>>I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
>>would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()?
>
>Seems like reload() could be *made* to work by scanning currently
>loaded modules for all references to objects in the reloaded module,
>and resetting them to the new objects.  If an object is missing from
>the new module, throw an exception.

   I don't quite get this.  I don't see objects _in_ a
module.  I see objects referenced from the modules
namespace, but they can be referenced from other modules'
namespaces at the same time.  Who is to say which module the
objects are *in*?

e.g. (untested)

#===============================
"M1.py"

f1 = file ('a')
f2 = file ('b')


#===============================
"main.py"
import M1

a_file = M1.f1
another = file ('c')
M1.f2 = another
reload (M1)



        Regards.        Mel.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Mar 29 23:35:41 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:35:41 -0800
Subject: histogram type thingy for (unique) dict items
In-Reply-To: <mailman.91.1080617349.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <5e8bd451.0403291801.51071ca2@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.91.1080617349.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4atkv$5vr$3@news.service.uci.edu>

John hit it on the nose.  That is how I would do it.

  - Josiah


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 26 16:25:37 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:25:37 -0800
Subject: python & mysql probelm
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F70@opus.amorhq.net>

james blair wrote:
> I am having a problem executing following query:
> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
> and '%s'"%(id1,id2))
> But say if i have projectid's from 1 to 20 in database & if i give the
> project range 1 to 2 then it gives me the result 1,2,11,12,13,14.....
> When I execute this query in mysql i.e
> select * from projects where projectid between 1 and 2,I get the
> correct result.
> I also tried doing 
> cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid between '%s'
> and '%s'"%(int(id1),int(id2))
> but no success
> What should I do??

Try dropping the single quotes around each %s

cursor.execute("select * from projects where projectid "
               "between %s and %s" % (id1, id2))

FuManChu



From bogus at bogus.net  Tue Mar  2 08:36:30 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:36:30 GMT
Subject: xmlrpclib timeouts
References: <mailman.19.1078223070.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y501c.27800$OH4.8708@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"p2esp" <p2esp at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.19.1078223070.12614.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> I'm using the xmlrpclib module to contact an XMLRPC
> server that takes a long time to send results back. My
> client timeouts.
>
> The question is whether there is a way to have an
> xmlrpclib client that never timeouts. I have been
> searching for some code examples on how to do that,
> but I could not find any in the xmlrpclib
> documentation.
>
> Thanks for any hints.
>

"Client that never times out" is not a good idea, generally.  Nothing in
life is certain, but even moreso in distributed systems.  Timeouts are there
to protect you from all kinds of problem conditions (busy server, crashed
server, etc.).  You really don't want your client to be in a position of
waiting for a response that is never going to come.

You are better off turning your synchronous "wait forever" client into an
asynchronous "wait for callback" client.  Have your client create a listener
object, and pass a reference to this object as part of your long-running
method call.  This allows the XMLRPC call to complete, since it is a brief
submission of work, instead of waiting for the work to complete.  When the
server is finished, it uses the callback object to send the results back to
the client.

This does make things more complicated - the server has to save the callback
object so that it knows who to send the results to.  The client is probably
going to be multithreaded, so that the client isn't blocked while waiting
for the response (although, given your initial design, this may not bother
you).  AND, the server may have to do some exception recovery (or at least
logging), if the client has disconnected before it was able to send back
results.

Another alternative is the "job ticket" model.  In this case, the client
calls the server just as you have it coded now, but the return value is some
form of job ticket, or job id.  The client then uses this id to periodically
poll the server to see if the results are ready yet.  Once the server
replies that results are ready, the client uses the job id as the argument
to a getResults() call on the server.  This solution is simpler to code, but
may have implications for network loading (lots of extra polling messages,
as clients repeatedly check if their results are ready), and the server has
to handle the case of clients that disconnect and never pick up their
laundry, um, that is, results.

There are a number of good reference books about client/server programming.
One that I like is "Advanced CORBA Programming with C++" by Henning and
Vinoski.  Although it uses CORBA and C++ as its implementation platform, so
you'll have to map the examples to Python and XMLRPC, the concepts are much
the same.  And don't be too quick to skip the memory management
discussions - even though Python does its own memory management (in place of
C++'s new/delete model), it is easy to have distributed memory leaks between
client and server.  (I have seen a Java memory leak happen this way, even
though Java uses a garbage collection memory management model too.)  Another
good resource is Douglas Schmidt's set of web pages at Washington Univ of
St. Louis - see http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/patterns.html for some
distributed system patterns papers.

Good luck - distributed systems can be nerve-wracking, but they are also
some of the really cool problems to solve.

-- Paul




From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 30 22:54:41 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 19:54:41 -0800
Subject: Import config into global space?
Message-ID: <30260531.0403301954.7905a3b@posting.google.com>

I'm writing a module, and it's getting too big to cope with as it has
a lot of configuration in it - constants, dictionaries etc; it'd be
nice to externalise this and keep my module down to just classes/defs
etc.

What I'd like to do is have myprog.py import config.py and be able to
reference the configuration variables globally - i.e. I could just
reference myvar instead of config.myvar

So I'd have something like this:

config.py
=========

ID_TOOLBAR = 105

myprog.py
=========

import config
print ID_TOOLBAR

result
======

>> 105

It doesn't seem to work though, as global is limited to modules as far
as I know.

Any ideas how to do this, it's basically like a require or #include in
Perl/C...


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Mar 30 07:58:44 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:58:44 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040330125844.GB27344@nl.linux.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> But everything in Prothon is subject to change until > 7/04.

Is that April the 7th or July the 4th?

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:25 UTC:
	15.0?C   wind 5.4 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature



From max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com  Mon Mar  1 10:22:00 2004
From: max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com (max khesin)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:22:00 GMT
Subject: [ANN]PyCrash 0.4pre1 released
In-Reply-To: <7b3322fb289581d86ed7895c5fe3dd20.46955@mygate.mailgate.org>
References: <7b3322fb289581d86ed7895c5fe3dd20.46955@mygate.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <syI0c.354$Wo2.227@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Great! And thanks for the license update, I was waiting to use this at work!


Carmine Noviello wrote:

> Hi,
> a new version of PyCrash is released new features and improvement.You
> can download it at:
> 
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98026&package_id=111026&release_id=220726
> 
> Changelog:
> 
> * PyCrash now handles correctly new-style classes
> * Added onExceptionRaised() method to PyCrash class, which notifies when
>   and how many times an uncaught exception is raised
> * Now all PyCrash classes inherit from "object"
> * Added new utils.Encrypt.py module, that contains the
>   EncryptedPyCrash class. This class allows developers to
>   automatically encrypt crash dumps using RSA algorithm, in order to
>   protect sensible data
> * Added two scripts: keygen.py and decrypt.py that allow user to
>   generate public/private key pair and decrypt file generated by
>   EncryptedPyCrash class.
> 
> Moreover, starting from release 0.2.1, PyCrash is distributed under the
> terms
> of LGPL software license.
> 
> A next version of PyCrash Viewer will come soon, in order to support
> these
> new features.
> 
> Enjoy!
> _______________________________________________________________________
> About PyCrash Project:
> PyCrash is a Run-Time Exception Dumper which handles uncaught exceptions
> during the execution of Python programs and collects information about
> the program context. PyCrash can be very useful in report bug
> information,
> because the programmer can easily analyse the program execution context
> of the crashed application.
> 
> Major information collected by PyCrash in the crash dump is:
> 
> - Information about operating system, Python and Python Standard
>   Library version and general information about the program that is
>   crashed (e.g., program name and version, time at witch program
>   started and ended, and so on)
> 
> - Information about the uncaught exceptions, like the exception type,
>   the context (namely method name) in which the exception occurred and
>   the exception value
> 
> - General information about variables state
> 
> - Information about the stack of each thread, like the list of stack
>   frames, the variables value in each stack frame, and so on
> 
> - General information about source code, like variable and function
>   position in source file that can be useful for the programmer to find
>   quickly bugs in source tree
> 
> The format of the crash dump file generated by PyCrash is XML, so the
> programmer can easily read this file to understand why the program is
> crashed.
> 
> Now, is also available a GUI browser, named PyCrash Viewer, which allows
> developers to analyze quickly and easily PyCrash crash dump files in a
> graphical manner.
> 
> Next version of PyCrash will include at least these features:
> * HTML dumper, that stores crash dump in HTML format rather then
>   XML
> 
> More information can be found at:
> 
> http://www.pycrash.org
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> <P><A HREF="http://www.pycrash.org";>PyCrash 0.4pre1</A> - a crash
> handler for Python written applications. (01-03-04)</P>
> 
> 


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Mar 17 08:00:49 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:00:49 +0100
Subject: popen problem
Message-ID: <40584C01.6030602@geochemsource.com>


  Hi All!

I don't know if this is a Python problem or not. Here is a snippet:

import os
TERM='\n\r\n\r'
cmd = 'cu -l /dev/cuaa0 -s9600'
pop = os.popen4(cmd,1)
pop[0].write('AT'+TERM) # Ping modem

def readln():
    buffer = ''
    while True:
        c = pop[1].read(1)
        if c == '\n':
            return buffer
        elif (c != '\r') and not (c in TERM):
            buffer += c

pop[1].readln()
pop[1].readln()
pop[1].readln()

Here is the problem: on FreeBSD, this works fine. The last readln() 
calls  will print this:

'Connected.'
''
'OK'

But if I try to do the same on Linux (with /dev/ttyS0 instead of 
/dev/cuaa0) I get this:

1. The first read blocks.
2. When I do 'killall cu' in another shell, it starts to read this:

'\0x7Connected.'
'cu: Got interrupt signal'

It seems that the first line ('Connected.') if buffered somewhere. I 
guess 'OK' is also buffered but it is not read because of the interrup.
Is it a problem with Linux of Python? Or is it a big difference between 
/dev/ttyS0 and /dev/cuaa0?

Thanks in advance,

    G





From bitbucket at safe-mail.net  Mon Mar  1 20:48:17 2004
From: bitbucket at safe-mail.net (poiboy)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 17:48:17 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <af6b5bdd.0403011748.1bbc2761@posting.google.com>

Look at taglist.vim (links below), a popular souce-browsing Vim
script. It's the only major script I'm using right now. I don't know
of any definitive Python calltips available for Vim (I assume they
would be difficult with flexible parameters and return values), but
taglist.vim provides function prototypes in the form of parameter
lists (search for 'prototype' in the taglist docs).

I've tried a few nifty Python-specific scripts (search www.vim.org)
but always wound up forgetting the special commands and resorting to
Vim staples. For example, the following two lines in my .vimrc were
good enough to condense all the functions and classes in a file:

    set foldmethod=indent
    set foldnestmax=2

My .vimrc also includes this "execute code and output results in new
buffer" script (which should all be on one line):

    map <F4> :w<CR>:let @a = system('`which python` ' .
bufname('%'))<CR>:silent botright new output<CR>:silent normal "aP<CR>

Normally I use GVim next to a terminal window tabbed with IPython
(ipython.scipy.org/) and a browser tabbed with whatever documentation
I may need - Python docs, RFCs, and project docs
(epydoc.sourceforge.net/). IPython helps access the nitty-gritty
aspects of Python, Epydoc allows me to browse documentation and
package structures elegantly. And though I am by no means a Python
guru, I've posted a screenshot of my "modular IDE" in action (link
below).

I went through a do-it-all-in-Vim stage and left feeling as though I
had just spent too much time playing with my tool. Keeping a browser
and terminal open all the time anyway, I eventually dismissed the
all-in-one paradigm as some quixotic jab at Emacs.

Happy vimmings,
poiboy

taglist.vim
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=273

exuberant ctags
http://ctags.sourceforge.net/

screenshot
http://aonalu.makahavalley.org/img/gvim_konq_ipython.png (197K,
1600x1200)
Check out the function prototype on the bottom of GVim's window.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 18 22:02:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:02:56 -0500
Subject: services
In-Reply-To: <cft6c.18768$qK1.668556@weber.videotron.net>
References: <cft6c.18768$qK1.668556@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <xOCdnfKn-bN8_8fd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Laurent Vincelette wrote:

> I have a python script (file start with #!/usr/bin/python) that use 
> xmlrpclib to lessen and respond on port:8000. The problem is when I 
> close the shell (bash in remote with putty) the script stop to work. I 
> try to start it in backgroud with & but it dosent work. Finally I copy 
> and I try to modify the /etc/init.d/crond to start the script in 
> services (with start-stop-demon but I have the same problem... When I 
> close putty the script stop.
> 
> Someone have a idea?

Redirect stdout and stderr to /dev/null.  I'm not sure which of these -- 
perhaps both -- is necessary, but doing both certainly works...

That is, this should work:

   yourscript.py >/dev/null 2>/dev/null &

-Peter


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 02:39:51 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 23:39:51 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403162339.28c3ba3c@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD at alcyone.com>...
> Dietrich Epp wrote:
> 
> > This could cause sorting functions to malfunction.
> > [example of nontransitive "<"]
>
> Do you have an example of this that doesn't involve comparisons between
> different types?

# This shouldn't count, for obvious reasons.  But what the heck...

class ContrivedExample(object):
   def __init__(self, n):
      self.__n = n
   def __cmp__(self, other):
      if self.__n == other.__n:
         return 0
      elif (self.__n - other.__n) % 3 == 1:
         return -1
      else:
         return 1

paper = ContrivedExample(0)
rock = ContrivedExample(1)
scissors = ContrivedExample(2)

print paper < scissors
print scissors < rock
print rock < paper


From khawaja_shahzads at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 10:37:05 2004
From: khawaja_shahzads at hotmail.com (Khawaja Shahzad Sadiq Butt)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:37:05 -0500
Subject: Need Help with pymssql
Message-ID: <BAY14-F4583sntGWIxd00004c6d@hotmail.com>

Hi,
     I am trying to connect to sql server 2000 on win xp. I am using a 
python extension called. pymssql but it is giving me this errror:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File 
"C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", 
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\syndication\db_1.py", line 3, in ?
    con = pymssql.connect(host='abc',user='ag',password='ag',database='agl')
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\pymssql.py", line 277, in connect
    con = _mssql.connect(dbhost, dbuser, dbpasswd,dbport)
error: Can't Connecting MSSQL Server


Everything like server username and password are correct. can someone help 
me . There is almost no help available on sourceforge for this. Any help 
would be appreciated.

Please reply,
Regards

Khawaja Shahzad

_________________________________________________________________
Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. 
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From http  Sat Mar 13 03:19:13 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 00:19:13 -0800
Subject: Sorting Driving Crazy: URGENT: PLEASE HELP
References: <mailman.346.1079159911.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xn06lf9by.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> writes:
> When I print x and feature_vectors[x]  I get some of
> the entries which are not in the increasing order.

(keys shown are: 22836 22840 22841 22842 22844 22846 2357 3105 3117
3675 4280)

Those keys are sorted correctly.  You have entered them in the
dictionary as strings, not integers.  '22836' comes before '4280' just
like 'apple' comes before 'pear'.  


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 14:19:21 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:19:21 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
Message-ID: <4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>


># It is a shame that the only limitation of a great is documentation.
>
>Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you are implying that good docs
>make a great language, you're mistaken.  After all, you're advocating
>Java in a python forum.  I do agree that java has good documentation,
>but I not think Java should be considered "great" in any capacity.  If
>the python docs are so bad, you should be specific about how and why.
>Python is great for countless other reasons which are unrelated to
>documentation.  I think the python docs are exceptional.
>  
>
IMO, PHP has the best documentation of basic language functionality. 
That certainly doesn't mean I think it is the best language. I think 
Python's library reference documentation is very good but the 
documentation of the basic language itself is sometimes lacking or 
confussing or just hard to find. Especially given that Python is 
somewhat unique in many ways and has certain gotchas that tend to 
confuse experienced programmers that are new to Python. Also it seems 
that certain popular 3rd party modules should be more closely documented 
with the library reference. Twisted would be a good example. Also it'd 
be nice to see a collection of short example programs that make use of 
various functionality and libraries available from Python.

I'd say that good docs don't make a great language but bad docs can ruin 
a great language. Python's docs aren't bad but they could be a lot better.

wxPython would be my example of some of the worst (non-existant) 
documentation available for Python while PyGame would be my example of 
some of the best.



From deets_noospaam at web.de  Mon Mar  1 17:14:53 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:14:53 +0100
Subject: Function calling another function
References: <mailman.6.1078176150.21900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c20ckt$88a$03$2@news.t-online.com>

> My question is surely a basic one, but somehow, I am not able to figure it
> out.
<snip>
> When I execute satish.py, main() executes. I was expecting y() to execute
> first and then x() and then y() again. I wanted function x() to be capable
> of calling function y(). With this form of code, seems like function x()
> is not recognising function y(). Is there any sort of import or anything
> else that I can do here ??

Works for me:

def main():
    y()
    x()


def y():
    print "y"

def x():
    print "x"
    y()

main()

gives me:


x
y
x

As expected.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar  4 16:03:47 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:03:47 -0600
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
References: <mailman.4.1078428023.679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e5qdnabLwdovBNrdRVn-uA@comcast.com>

You might want to look at Zope www.zope.org

Not required, but might save you a lot of time
and effort.

-Larry


"Maru, Mulugeta" <mmaru at visiontv.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.4.1078428023.679.python-list at python.org...
What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL to develop a database
driven intranet? Do I need to use any framework or application server? If I
do please kindly direct me where to go.
Many thanks.
MM

VisionTV proudly celebrates 15 years as Canada's multi-faith television
network.




From http  Tue Mar 30 17:49:45 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 14:49:45 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<258fd9b8.0403301151.179e9190@posting.google.com>
	<4kmac.74887$cx5.73453@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <7xoeqegdbq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> Any ideas on how to implement assignment expressions and not have if x = y:
> ambiguity problems?
> 
> I've considered using a different syntax for the expression version of "=",
> such as ":=" or even left.replace!(right).

:= is the variant discussed most often around here.  left.replace!(right)
only works if left is already bound to an object.


From glingl at aon.at  Thu Mar  4 14:27:31 2004
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:27:31 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <20040304190419.20224.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040304190419.20224.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40478323.4060604@aon.at>



Aloysio Figueiredo schrieb:

>>         if sig not in d.keys():
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Have you tried 
>
>  if sig not in d.iterkeys():
>
>?
>
Yes. It's only slightly faster that if sig not in d.keys(),
i. e. still much slower than if sig in d by a factor of 180
for a 20000-item list.

Gregor


>Aloysio
>  
>



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 09:26:41 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:26:41 -0600
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
In-Reply-To: <du7fzce8sd8.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<du7fzce8sd8.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <16465.51361.967348.648145@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Skip> name is a reddish color.  Strings are green.  Comments are blue.
    Skip> None of the colors are too saturated though so even though it
    Skip> sounds garish it's not too hard on the eyes.  The

    Ville> Aren't the actual, physical colors more of a global emacs issue,
    Ville> rather than an issue w/ python-mode.el? 

Ah, perhaps you're right.  In which case the OP probably just needs to
upgrade to a recent version of XEmacs. ;-)

    Ville> I'm using color-theme.el myself:

    Ville> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/ColorTheme

    Ville> I urge everyone to check it out, esp. if you spend >= 8 hours a
    Ville> day staring at emacs windows :).

Thanks for the suggestion.  Got a favorite theme for Python bufferrs or do
you rotate through a small set of themes to give your eyes a break?

Skip



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar 19 04:50:55 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:50:55 -0800
Subject: Best way to convert string a to utf-*
References: <c3efeb$tbc$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <405AC27F.CCCE7527@alcyone.com>

Oliver Kurz wrote:

> could someone tell me the best way to convert a string to utf, for
> example
> to utf-8?
> 
> The problem: I have no controll about the source where the string
> comes
> from. It could have any possible characterset. And I have to convert
> it for
> example to utf-8.

If the format is not already a Unicode string, you really can't know
what encoding it's in.  To convert it to UTF-8 (or UTF-16 or UTF-32),
you really must know what format it's in to begin with or otherwise
you're stuck.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ He who conceals his disease cannot expect to be cured.
    -- (an Ethiopian proverb)


From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar  4 09:19:44 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:19:44 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Sightly off topic - download file name
In-Reply-To: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
References: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
Message-ID: <40473B00.2080802@cfl.rr.com>

I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
stored on disk.
the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
name appear in the browser DL window.
i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
have real name show in File Save dialog.


Fred







From mambuhl at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  3 16:13:53 2004
From: mambuhl at earthlink.net (Martin Ambuhl)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:53 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lUr1c.31844$hm4.9022@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

nobody wrote:

> This article is posted at the request of C.W. Yang who
> asked me to detail my opinion of Lisp, and for the benefit
> of people like him, who may find themselves intrigued by
> this language.

I fail to see why anyone should give a rat's ass about what someone 
hiding behind "nobody_u_should_no at yahoo.com (nobody)" has to say about 
anything.  "Nobody"'s opinions about LISP, C, or the color of bananas is 
completely worthless. When you have the cajones to stand behind your 
opinions, you might be paid attention to.



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 07:48:12 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:48:12 +0200
Subject: Calling C programs
In-Reply-To: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
References: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4047258C.9080808@zoran.com>

Hello Colin,

> I have a simple C program which outputs a string. I want to be able to call
> this progam from python and assign the output to a variable. What's the best
> way to do this?
from os import popen
print popen("/tmp/hello").read()

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-process.html

HTH.
Miki


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar  2 21:38:02 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:02 -0500
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
In-Reply-To: <anmrxqkvslivwfoftnt@python.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFBJEAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

It shouldn't need to be said, but if you get a message that looks like this:

> Dear user of Python.org gateway e-mail server,
>
> We  warn  you about some attacks on your  e-mail account. Your
> computer may contain viruses, in order to keep your computer and
> e-mail account safe, please, follow the  instructions.
>
> For details see  the attached file.
>
> For  security  reasons attached file is password protected. The
> password is "28132".
>
> Cheers,
>     The Python.org team
> http://www.python.org

it's not from anyone at python.org, and the zip file attached contains a
Windows virus.  But if you run it anyway, I'm sure Guido will be happy to
fly to your house and clean up your PC.

it's-the-least-he-could-do-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 12:57:18 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:57:18 -0700
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2l0hu$iea$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Jason Tishler wrote:

> Fernando,
> 
> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:01:05AM -0700, Fernando Perez wrote:
>> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Does rebasing your Cygwin installation help?
> 
>     http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README

Thanks again, Jason.  As Thorsten reported, the 'rebasing' business (I still
don't know what that means :) did help.

Best,

Fernando.


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar  9 13:22:29 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 20:22:29 +0200
Subject: Python scripting for GNumeric
References: <c0a3763a.0403090922.6499be97@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7eks16ftm.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Niklaus" == NWirth  <nwirth at myrealbox.com> writes:

    Niklaus> Python) compared with Excel and VBA? Is it possible to
    Niklaus> run Gnumeric using Python extensions on Windows?

Is it possible to run Gnumeric on Windows at all? ISTR that it's not
possible yet.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Wed Mar  3 14:50:20 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:50:20 -0300 (ART)
Subject: insertion in lists
In-Reply-To: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040303195020.59810.qmail@web61003.mail.yahoo.com>


I'm not sure if I understand your question, but I think you forgot
to make list[0] a list itself:


>>> element = 1                ## 1 or whatever
>>> list = []
>>> list.insert(0, [])
>>> list[0].insert(0, element)
>>> list[0][0]
1

Now, we have list[0][0] = element...

Aloysio

 --- Lupe <luis_ at iname.com> escreveu: 
> hi,
> 
> I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me
> to be
> the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining
> of
> the program.
> 
> if I have:
>         element
> 
>         list [0]
> and want to have list[0][0]
>                  list[0][1]
> 
> how can I insert the element to that list[0][0], for example?
> just to put things clearer, if I wanted to insert the element in
> list[0] I
> could do list.insert(0,element).
> 
> I've tried list[0].insert(0,element) but gives me an error.
> 
> 
> Luis
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From wenming_hu2002 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 03:48:14 2004
From: wenming_hu2002 at hotmail.com (wenming_hu)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:48:14 +0800
Subject: how to write python server page by using mod_python?
References: <mailman.10.1078467052.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c29et1$1ste$1@mail.cn99.com>

I'm sorry to bother you again. i think you must be a cool man for using
mod_python.

my os environment:
  operation system is windows 2000 server
  apache 2.0.48
  mod_python-3.1.2b.win32-py2.3.exe
  python2.3.3

according to your guide, i have succeed in configuring the apache, as the
following:

LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so

#----interface.conf----

Alias /web f:/psp_site

<Directory f:/psp_site/>
    AddHandler python-program .htm
    PythonHandler dispatch
    PythonDebug On

    DirectoryIndex welcome.htm
</Directory>

#----end interface.conf----


And I have two files , nothing else but dispatch.py and welcome.htm,  in the
folder f:\pspsite,

the dispathch.py has the following code:

# dispatch.py
from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
    return apache.OK

the other file "welcome.htm" is:

<html>

<head>
<title>welcome to this site!</title>
</head>

<body>

<center><h1>Hello, world! This is a new site!</h1></center>

</body>
</html>

Then i restart the apache, enter the URL "http://localhost/web" in my web
browser, but get nothing.

i want to access welcome.htm when entering the url http://localhost/web
that is to say, welcome.htm is the default page of the site.

how to get the above effect?






From mf at orase.com  Wed Mar 31 12:33:45 2004
From: mf at orase.com (Markus Franz)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:33:45 +0200
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
Message-ID: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi.

How can I grab websites with a command-line python script? I want to start
the script like this:

./script.py ---xxx--- http://www.address1.com http://www.address2.com
http://www.address3.com

The script should load these 3 websites (or more if specified) in parallel
(may be processes? threads?) and show their contents seperated by ---xxx---.
The whole output should be print on the command-line. Each website should
only have 15 seconds to return the contents (maximum) in order to avoid a
never-ending script.

How can I do this?

Thanks.

Yours sincerely

Markus Franz




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Mar 27 13:53:06 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 10:53:06 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403271053.5c866d75@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai at 4ax.com>...
> This is a small problem with a simple solution (see my earlier post),
> and one that will retain the advantages of tabs.

Just to be clear, the previous one was a rethorical question. Use any
editor
with decent Python support and pressing the tab key will insert four
spaces,
indenting your code just fine. Even if you are using Notepad on
Windows, it is
best if you use spaces, otherwise you risk to be beaten by Outlook
Express the Tabs Eater.
Plus, the size of a tab (8 spaces? 4 spaces?) and the output you get
is totally dependent on the system you are using. Seriously, even
doing an effort I cannot imagine a single advantage of tabs. Tabs are
evil.
They are an historical wart, they should just be banned from modern
computing.

                Michele Simionato


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 16 07:50:56 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:50:56 GMT
Subject: newbie question: nop statement for try/except
References: <m2n06ht0vi.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <m3n06h6jm8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

leo <leo at bella.local> writes:

> hi there
> 
> the "try/[except|finally]" construct seems to need the second part "except"
> resp. "finally" due to syntactical reasons.
> 
> but in some cases i guess i do not need any statement in the second
> part. but just carrying on without an idented block doesn't work.
> 
> so, is there something a no-operation statement?

'pass'

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
 As it seems to me, in Perl you have to be an expert to correctly make
 a nested data structure like, say, a list of hashes of instances.  In
 Python, you have to be an idiot not  to be able to do it, because you
 just write it down.             -- Peter Norvig, comp.lang.functional


From missive at frontiernet.net  Mon Mar  8 17:28:13 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:28:13 GMT
Subject: curses bkgd problem
References: <mailman.122.1078762155.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1s63c.13$GX5.8@news01.roc.ny>

On 2004-03-08, Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi Python Gurus!
>
> I read the documentation on the python curses module and I started a new 
> application.
> So far I did this:
>
> stdscr = curses.initscr() # Get standard screen
> curses.start_color()      # Uses colors
> stdscr.bkgd(' ',curses.COLOR_BLUE ) # Set background of the main window
> curses.noecho()           # Do not echo input
> curses.cbreak()           # CBreak mode: process keys immediately (no ENTER)
> stdscr.keypad(1)          # keypad mode: parse control sequences
> stdscr.redrawwin()
> stdscr.refresh()
>
> However, it is displaying $ characters in black instead of displaying a 
> blue background full of spaces.
> This must be a problem with my bkgd call since this works fine:
>
> curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_RED, curses.COLOR_WHITE)
> stdscr.addstr(0, 0, curses.longname(), curses.color_pair(1) )
> stdscr.refresh()
>
> (writes "X11$terminal$emulator" in the top left corner in red and white).
> Please help me out with a few lines of code.
>


I must have had some trouble setting a background color also, as my
curses project has a module I called ColorFill.py  ...


import curses

def colorFill(scr, pair):
    if curses.has_colors():
        scr.attron(curses.color_pair(pair))
        (h, w) = scr.getmaxyx()
        for y in range(h-1):
            for x in range(w-1):
                scr.move(y, x)
                scr.addch(' ')



From frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk  Mon Mar  8 11:25:01 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:25:01 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2i6lh$ono$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516 at posting.google.com...

> Because I *won't* be allowed to install anything other than python
> scripts on the server...........

That sounds very odd:

A Malicious Python script can do just as much evil as a C++ executable only
in fewer lines of code!

Maybe it would be easier to get hold of a dedicated server than to work
around the idiosynchracies(?) of the IT department(?) managing the server?
The ressource requirements of PSQL + Python are small - almost any junk PC
could work for a Proof-of-Concept.




From frnakd at aol.com  Fri Mar  5 15:05:34 2004
From: frnakd at aol.com (fd)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 12:05:34 -0800
Subject: file.readline() after a seek() breaking up lines
Message-ID: <ba1b9669.0403051205.5d278f0b@posting.google.com>

I am a newcomer to python, and I hope someone can point out to me why
my calls to file.readline() (after a seek) are returning mangled lines. 
Calling readline twice after each seek, eliminates the problem.  Is seek(), 
like next(), incompatible with readline()?  If so, how should I be doing do 
random access line reads?
Thanks
FD

# Sample code for readline() problem

# platform: windows xp 
# python version 2.3
# The source file is just a list of words - one word per line,
# saved as ANSI from notepad 


from string import rstrip
from random import randrange

words = file('C:\\swap\\english.txt', 'r')
words.seek(-1,2)
endAt = words.tell()
startAt = 1

for w in range(0, 50):
    words.seek(randrange( startAt, endAt ) , 0)
    #words.readline() #uncomment this and lines are intact
    print words.readline() 

words.close()


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Mar 25 03:45:57 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 08:45:57 GMT
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
References: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<c3qo9v$tr3$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
	<rgf7j1-ke2.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<Owa8c.13991$W23.3512@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c3u685$6p8$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Trevor Perrin  <trevp_spam at trevp.net>:
> Roger Binns wrote:
> > It would be really nice if you could get together with TLS Lite.
> 
> We already have (perhaps unbeknownst to Ng ;-).   TLS Lite can use 
> M2Crypto for fast RSA and ciphers.

Cool!


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 03:47:22 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 09:47:22 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfllm24hut.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> writes:

>  --- srijit at yahoo.com wrote: > Hello,
> > Try Traits
> > (http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits).
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Srijit
> 
> Who says Python is not strongly typed?

Too many people, who don't know what they're talking about (including
the authors of the traits package, it seems).

> The problem I am facing is that Python is also dynamically typed,
> and I want static typing.

No you don't. You really, really don't :-)


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 18 18:25:08 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:25:08 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> ...and then it can run into an infinite loop. I explained that for the
> example s==w in the part you deleted. The recursion does not always
> have a base case; the rule does not always give a definite truth
> value.

But the == operator doesn't run into an infinite loop, so this is much
ado about nothing.

> ... i.e. such a fun case. If there really is an implementation
> dependency hidden in something as fundamental as == for lists, that'd
> better be mentioned in the language reference.

I don't know what you're talking about here.  The behavior you saw with
your s == w example is completely consistent with Python's definition of
equality and Python's definition of equal sequences.  You have some
additional equivalence in your mind that simply does not apply to
Python.

> > How can you define the value of an arbitrary object without
> > reference to
> > its internal structure?
> 
> Well, you claim that s and w have the same value yet different
> internal structure, so you must work with some definition of "value"
> that's different from internal structure. I don't know what it is, and
> the language reference doesn't fully specify it.

1 and 1.0 have different internal structure, but they're equal.  This is
an obvious existence proof that Python simply does not follow the
equivalence that you're thinking of.

Equality does _not_ indicate equivalence in internal structure in
Python.  This is especially true in Python where users can define their
own equality behavior, so you can make it whatever you want -- you can
make your own instance that compares equal (or unequal) with absolutely
everything.  If 1 == 1.0 didn't convince you, surely this will convince
you that equality and equivalence in internal structure are not related
in Python.

> I.e., I'm interesting in a function val : lists -> strings with the
> property val(l1) == val(l2) iff l1 == l2. That would also considerably
> clarify the semantics of == for lists, which I still don't understand.

Why are you interested in such a function?

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ I do not promise to consider race or religion in my appointments.
    I promise only that I will not consider them. -- John F. Kennedy


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar 21 17:15:25 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:15:25 -0800
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F36@opus.amorhq.net>

I wrote a bunch of guff about limit(), including:
> If you had a dataset with many large iterables, you would probably go
> ahead and incur the overhead of an inner function call, with something
> like:
> 
> def limit3(obj, lower=None, upper=None):
>     if upper is None:
>         if lower is None:
>             limfunc = lambda i: i
>         else:
>             def _lower(i):
>                 if i < lower:
>                     i = lower
>                 return i
>             limfunc = _lower
>     else:
>         if lower is None:
>             def _upper(i):
>                 if i > upper:
>                     i = upper
>                 return i
>             limfunc = _upper
>         else:
>             def _both(i):
>                 if i < lower:
>                     i = lower
>                 if i > upper:
>                     i = upper
>                 return i
>             limfunc = _both
>     
>     if hasattr(obj, '__iter__'):
>         product = []
>         for item in obj:
>             product.append(limfunc(item))
>         return product
>     else:
>         return limfunc(obj)
> 
> ...which might squeeze a bit of performance out of the partial
> application:
> 
> >>> tl = timeit.Timer("limit.limit(data, 1, 5)", "import limit; data =
> (0, 3, 6) * 100")
> >>> tl.timeit(10000)
> 7.1556577721471513
> >>> t3l = timeit.Timer("limit.limit3(data, 1, 5)", "import 
> limit; data =
> (0, 3, 6) * 100")
> >>> t3l.timeit(10000)
> 5.0156802051656086

Of course, I tested the wrong function (I should have tested "limit4"
instead of "limit"). Turns out the partial application solution
("limit3") is slower after all:

>>> t4l = timeit.Timer("limit.limit4(data, 1, 5)", "import limit; data =
(0, 3, 6) * 100")
>>> t4l.timeit(10000)
3.8564284008166396
>>> t3l.timeit(10000)
4.9950809390575159

Meh. It was fun trying.


FuManChu



From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Mar  3 07:32:29 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:32:29 +0100
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>	<oueksar0tu.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
	<slrnc4bgub.4aj.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4045D05D.4000109@geochemsource.com>

>
>
>I use psycopg usually, though I try to test my progs with all of them
>(except popy).  It's not too hard to accomadate all of them with just a few
>tweaks (usually in the way they handle booleans), since they all use
>pyformat.
>  
>
Hmm, this is why I use C-style booleans (e.g. an integer where 0 means 
false and not 0 means true).
It is totally portable (can be used with any DBMS and with any DB-API 
module). I can be wrong doing
this but it works fine for me.

   G





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar 18 08:56:26 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:56:26 -0500
Subject: attributes of Python classes
References: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com><4058F086.490C215B@alcyone.com><roy-2641A9.19463117032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c3bmf8$6b$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <c3c9q6$e9n$1@sea.gmane.org>


> > I agree that initializing all attributes in __init__ is a good idea.
> > Even if you initialize them to None and overwrite them in some other
> > method before ever accessing the value, it's still a nice way to help
> > soem future reader understand your class better.  If it's a good idea
to
> > have self-documenting code, I guess it's an even better idea to have
> > executable comments :-)

An alternative is to give attributes a default value of None as class
attributes.  This avoid time and space overhead of doing same on per
instance basis.  Instances only need instance-specific value when there is
one.

class C:
  a = None # what a is
  b = None # what b is

Terry J. Reedy








From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 03:58:19 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:58:19 -0800
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1079300054.682.python-list@python.org>
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>	<1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.11.1079300054.682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c33rct$n11$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> In Linux, you can get a lot of information on hardware and status by examining 
> files in the /proc directory. For example, from doing cat /proc/cpuinfo on my 
> system:
[snip proc info]

In Windows 2k (and perhaps XP, 2003, ...) you can some of the same 
information with "set" (portions removed for brevity)
C:\> set
NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS=2
OS=Windows_NT
PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE=x86
PROCESSOR_IDENTIFIER=x86 Family 6 Model 6 Stepping 5, GenuineIntel
PROCESSOR_LEVEL=6
PROCESSOR_REVISION=0605

> For disk space and free space, you check /proc/diskstats, etc.
> No idea about how to do it on Windows, but programs like "Treesize" tell me it 
> mustn't be that hard.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a method for finding out other 
than parsing the results of a "quick":
[parse(os.popen("dir %s:\\"%chr(letter)).read()) \
  for letter in xrange(ord('a'), ord('z')+1)]

There is likely a better and faster way for both by using pywin32 
(current name for win32 extensions).

  - Josiah


From michael at foord.net  Mon Mar 15 11:44:28 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 08:44:28 -0800
Subject: Enjoying Inheritance and operator Overloading
References: <8089854e.0403150353.5f249c3f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403150844.642feb8b@posting.google.com>

> 
>     def __delitem__(self, item):                # deleting a keyword
>         key = item.lower()
>         if not self.has_key(key):
>             raise KeyError(item)
>         dict.__delitem__(key)
> 
Oops - except dict.__delitem__ ought have both self and item as arguments....

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     a = lowerDict()
>     a['HELLO'] =3
>     print a


From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Thu Mar 11 10:13:06 2004
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:13:06 -0500
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
In-Reply-To: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <20040311151306.GA91050@hishome.net>

On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 12:38:49PM +0100, Uwe Mayer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know the python community is not very receptive towards extending the
> python syntax. Nevertheless I'd like to make a suggestion and hear your pro
> and cons.
> 
> I want so suggest a concatenation operator like in mathematics: ??
> such that: 
> 
>     a(b(c(d))) <=> a??b??c(d)
> 
> Now, why do you think such an extension would be completely useless? ;)

Composition of regular functions is not too useful in daily programming 
tasks but concatenation of stream processes is quite useful. That is 
what makes pipes in shell programming so effective. 

   Oren



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar 20 13:30:03 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:30:03 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F2A@opus.amorhq.net>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > Regular expressions are not a good tool for this purpose.
> 
> Hmm... I'm not sure if I've been helped or not :-)
> Thanks anyway.....
> 
> Odd that you can't do this easily with regular expressions - I suppose
> it doesn't compile down to a neat test.... but then it's hardly a
> complex search... OTOH I have *no idea* how regular expressions
> actually work (and no need to find out)...

>From one Fu.*man to another ;) you do have a need to find out, even if
you don't recognize it. Start with A.M. Kuchling's excellent,
Python-based tutorial at: http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/

At the least, you should understand why a regex is not an all-in-one
solution to your issue. It basically comes down to the fact that a regex
is geared to do its analysis in a single pass over your text. As it
finds partial matches, it may backtrack to try to find a complete match,
but in general, it moves forward. Therefore, if you want to find three
words in a *declared* order in your text, a single regex can do it
easily. If you want to find three words in *any* order, the simplest
solution using regexes is to perform three separate searches. There are
ways to get around this within a regex, but they're neither as simple
nor as maintainable as letting Python do the iteration:

>>> import re
>>> text = 'Some aa text cc with bb search terms.'
>>> search_terms = ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
>>> [re.findall(re.escape(word), text) for word in search_terms]
[['aa'], ['bb'], ['cc']]

or, for your case:

>>> def has_all_terms(content, terms):
... 	for word in terms:
... 		if not re.search(re.escape(word), content):
... 			return False
... 	return True
... 
>>> has_all_terms(text, search_terms)
True
>>> has_all_terms('A is for aardvark.', search_terms)
False


HTCYTIRABM!

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Tue Mar  2 14:42:17 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:42:17 +0100
Subject: Twisted/Woven threading?
In-Reply-To: <2004022921404364440%bob@redivicom>
References: <c1u2br$v6k$1@bagan.srce.hr> <2004022921404364440%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <c22o2m$iem$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Bob Ippolito wrote:
> On 2004-02-29 20:07:04 -0500, Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> said:
> 
>> I've experimented with a simple web application made with woven and 
>> stated by twistd from a .tap file, on a Win32. It seems that the web 
>> server started that way is not multitasked/multithreaded and that one 
>> request that requires long processing (e.g. a factory that produces a 
>> long result fetched from a database) makes the server totaly 
>> unresponsive.
>>
>> Is that normal? What can I do to make it multithreaded?
> 
> 
> You're probably using DBAPI stuff directly, you can't do that, it's 
> blocking.  You need to do that work in a separate thread, the easiest 
> way is probably with twisted.enterprise.  There are tutorials and such 
> about this, and a better place to ask is the Twisted mailing list(s).

Actually, I don't think the problem is in the db itself, but in the 
formatting (the "factory" that transformed database result into xhtml). 
The query itself is fast and trivial.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar 20 11:06:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:06:47 -0500
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de><0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3hq6j$94i$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jon Perez" <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3gqvu$27bujr$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de...
> The answers also make me curious about how CPython's VM works.
> I suppose that, unlike Java, it is constantly being reworked
> in more extensive ways from one dot-version to another.  Would
> that also explain why there is no detailed spec detailing how
> CPython's VM works (since its design is not as nailed down as,
> say, the JVM)?

The CPython VM is intentionally underdocumented and intentionally not part
of the language spec.  It is still being developed and might radically
change in the future.  There will probably be minor changes in the next
release as a result of experiments designed to find combinations of codes
that dependably run faster on all major platforms.  However, the current
byte code is described in the Library Ref as part of the doc for the dis
(assembly) module.

Terry J. Reedy






From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar  2 21:15:19 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:15:19 -0500
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnkhdx6wua0.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> Python is supposed to be easy (and in general I agree that it is), but
> your solution requires some knowledge of
>
> (1) how integer and floating point calculations are done (which many
> novices do not have)
> (2) when Psycho can speed things up
>
> and the final result is still much slower than Fortran. For the
> Fortran program, the only "trick" is the use of integer*8.

It's quite easy (using F2PY) to make Python wrapper around a Fortran
routine. So if you're in a situation where Fortran is much faster,
then use it. Wrap it in Python and slap a webserver and a GUI on
that puppy, and run rings around pure Fortran code.

[Heck, I'll cry if I ever have to write any serious user interface
code in Fortran. More than my sanity is worth.]

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 12 14:45:41 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 14:45:41 -0500
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
	<mailman.301.1079073897.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2t415$l5e$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.301.1079073897.19534.python-list at python.org>,
Python Baby  <python at hitmedia.com> wrote:
>
>Yes but how does Spanish compare to Ruby?  Which is better?

Are you an Irish Python baby?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From hove at bccs.no  Wed Mar 31 05:42:32 2004
From: hove at bccs.no (Joakim Hove)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:42:32 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.155.1080705831.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4y3c7pi9gn.fsf@skjellgran.ii.uib.no>



> I know it's not necessary, but it does no harm (right?) and I think [...]

That is right.


> (JH)> Repositioning the

... file pointer is not necessary, this pointer just vanishes when you
close the file anyway. My second comment was that it is not necessary
to explicitly exit the program with 'sys.exit()'.

I am impressed with the way you followed up on this.

Joakim

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------\
 / Joakim Hove  / hove at bccs.no  /  (55 5) 84076       |                 \
 | Unifob AS, Avdeling for Beregningsvitenskap (BCCS) | Stabburveien 18 |
 | CMU                                                | 5231 Paradis    |
 \ Thorm?hlensgt.55, 5020 Bergen.                     | 55 91 28 18     /
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------/


From shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 23:25:32 2004
From: shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com (shalendra chhabra)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:25:32 +0000
Subject: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
Message-ID: <LAW10-F67Jecd92bXCH00014247@hotmail.com>


Hey Stephen,
Thanks. I got what you said and by mistake I had typed the order in 
Decreasing, which I needed too.

However, right now I see this interesting problem here on this list of "dont 
bother" which seems interesting.

If one has a string and can this string be assigned to a dictionary and then 
we can apply the sorting methods of dictionary on it.
For example: the information in my itemset can be treated as a string.

itemset{}
itemset=str(key[i])+str(value[i]) #done over a loop and and then some how 
can get everything concatenated

If I am not mistaken the itemset is now a string.
How can I assign this itemset back to a dictionary? Is there any way?
If yes! then we can apply the sort methods for increasing order and for 
decreasing order you have given me the function already.

Please clear my doubt

Thanks
Shalen

>From: Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Re: Is Python Smart Enough to do Sorting like this?
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:03:30 +0000
>
>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:26:25 +0000, "shalendra chhabra"
><shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Is it possible to order this itemset in an increasing order of key: value
> >with respect to keys. For example: if
> >key4>key2>key3>key1
> >then the resulting ordering should be in such a way:
> >
> >key4:value4, key2: value2,key3:value3>key1: value1
>
>What you seem to be describing is decreasing order of key - the
>highest key value (key4) first, with progressively smaller values at
>later positions.
>
>This is not hard. The only minor annoyance is that, unlike for
>instance a C++ map, Python dictionaries don't naturally iterate in
>sorted order (they use hashing rather than a tree structure, which
>overall is probably neither better nor worse - just different).
>
>Sorting tasks are quite common, so while that are not exactly
>difficult I imagine there's a good guide on the internet somewhere for
>newbies (links anyone?).
>
>In this case, once you have the dictionary of key:value pairs you
>extract a list of keys and sort it appropriately. The default sort is
>in increasing order, so you reverse that to get decreasing order.
>Then, if necessary, you use a list comprehension to get a list of
>(key, value) tuples in the needed order. The list comprehension is
>often redundant, though, as you can normally just iterate the sorted
>keys and read the values from the dictionary when they're needed.
>
>Here is a quick function...
>
>def pairs_by_decreasing_key (p_Dict) :
>   """
>   Takes a dictionary and derives a list of (key, value) tuples
>   in decreasing order of key.
>   """
>   tmp = p_Dict.keys (); tmp.sort (); tmp.reverse ()
>
>   return [(i, p_Dict [i]) for i in tmp]
>
>
>--
>Steve Horne
>
>steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
Xerox Multifunction devices?that print,copy,scan and fax.  
http://go.msnserver.com/IN/44797.asp Get affordable printing solutions that 
fit your needs .




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Mar 29 14:00:55 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:00:55 -0300
Subject: Threading program with issues when executing from IDLE
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837E8@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People, executing the following code from command line, it works as expected
(you see "th1 - 2" *always* after "th2 - 2").

But when I execute from IDLE one of two things happens:

    - Everything freezes up after "th1 - 1".
    - The program finishes but after I get an strange internal IDLE error.

There's a way to avoid that?

The code:

-----------------
import threading

def thfunc1():
    print "th1 - 1"
    event.wait()
    print "th1 - 2"

def thfunc2():
    print "th2 - 1"
    print "th2 - 2"
    event.set()
    
event = threading.Event()

th1 = threading.Thread(target=thfunc1)
th2 = threading.Thread(target=thfunc2)

th2.start()
th1.start()
-----------------

Thank you all!

.	Facundo



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar  7 17:41:31 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:41:31 +1100
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE013E7161@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Bo Jacobsen
> 
> I'm new to Python, and it looks as if there is no
> C like "#include and extern" or function protypes. No shell like ".
> ../filename"
> is this correct ?.
> 
> Is there any way to implement them ?
> 
> PS: For me, "import module" is no replacement for include.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Hint: try learning/using the language before posting. Most of the people here get along just fine without #include in Python ...

Tim Delaney



From news at grauer-online.de  Tue Mar  2 05:26:07 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:26:07 +0100
Subject: How to access the Oracle9i?
In-Reply-To: <a48d7271.0403012133.77abd1b8@posting.google.com>
References: <a48d7271.0403012133.77abd1b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c21ng1$7hm$1@online.de>

slackgg at 163.com wrote:
> HI:
>   above title..

Choose a oracle-module from:
http://python.org/topics/database/modules.html

Uwe


From yaipa at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 00:17:03 2004
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 21:17:03 -0800
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
References: <20040315214043.2814f549.benoit.merouze@epita.fr>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0403152117.5f557548@posting.google.com>

ben- <benoit.merouze at epita.fr> wrote in message news:<20040315214043.2814f549.benoit.merouze at epita.fr>...
> I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
> Are there libraries for this ?
> 
> If someone have advices to give, I'm interested !

See:
   Python Programming on Win32 
     By Mark Hammond, Andy Robinson
     http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/

Also, if you google "Excel group:comp.lang.python.*"
you will get about 1500 hits. Googling "hammond Excel group:comp.lang.python.*"
drops the number down to just over 100.

Cheers.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  8 00:01:04 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:01:04 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<roy-4D429A.16161006032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <lpqn40tnb9ro6ped0rucl3i8m56noroed7@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:16:10 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>In article <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote:
>
>> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
>> (untested examples in C++)
>
>Working around the lack of "goto" in a language is kind of like trying 
>to figure out how to swim without a piano strapped to your back.

:-)

>> (1) deeply nested loops
>> 
>> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
>> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
>> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>>     if (/* some test */) goto END;
>> 
>> END: /* continue */;
>
>I've found two general solutions to the breaking out of a deeply nested 
>loop.  One possibility is to factor the loop out into its own function, 
>and break out of it with a return:

<snip>

>Another is to use an exception:

Another occurred to me. Turn the three nested loops into one loop.

In C...

  i = j = k = 0;

  while (k < 10)
  {
    if (/* some test */)  break;

    i++; if (i == 10) { i = 0; j++; if (j == 10) { j = 0; k++; } }
  }

If it was needed a lot, I might try...

  /*  Cyclic increment

      Increment var reference by p and test against limit.
      if limit reached, reset to zero and return true
      to indicate overflow
  */
  int CInc (int *p, int p_Limit)
  {
    (*p)++;
    if (*p < p_Limit)  return 0;
    *p = 0;
    return true;
  }

  ...

  i = j = k = done = 0;

  while (!done)
  {
    if (/* some test */)  break;

    done = CInc (&i, 10) && CInc (&j, 10) && CInc (&k, 10);
  }

though I would at least try to think of a decent name for that
function.


This can just about be translated to Python...

  class cyclicint :
    def __init__ (self, p) :
      self.value = p

    def inc (self, p_Limit) :
      self.value++
      if self.value < p_Limit : return false
      self.value = 0
      return true

    def __int__ (self) :
      return value

  ...

  i = cyclicint (0); j = cyclicint (0); k = cyclicint (0); done = 0

  while not done :
    if some test :  break

    done = i.inc (10) and j.inc (10) and k.inc (10)


But really that's a bad idea - there's a much neater way...

  for (i,j,k) in [(x,y,z) for x in range(10)
                          for y in range(10)
                          for z in range(10) ] :
    if sometest : break


This should, of course, get a bit more efficient in Python 2.4 when we
get generator expressions :-)

I can also imagine a helper function...

  for (i,j,k) in cross(range(10), range(10), range(10)) :
    if sometest : break


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 09:19:24 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:19:24 +0200
Subject: import a module from an archive ?
In-Reply-To: <40682BF2.80407@zslide.com>
References: <40682BF2.80407@zslide.com>
Message-ID: <4068306C.10507@stackless.com>

vincent Salaun wrote:

> hi all,
> 
> i'd like to know if it's possible to import a module from an archive 
> (zip, rar, tar, jar, ...)
> I've tried using different formats but it still doesn't work .....
> 
> i make:
>    >>>sys.path.append('d:/myModules.zip')
>    >>>import aModuleFromTheArchive
> 
> is there a way to do that ?
> the problem is that i've embed a python interpreter in our java app and 
> our scripts need some standard modules from python and jython but the 2 
> 'Lib' directories of python and jython are a bit heavy : 8Mb ....

This has started with PEP 273, and was implemented after PEP 302,
see http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0302.html

See also the module zipfile.

And here is how to do it:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/node5.html

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From steve at ferg.org  Thu Mar  4 18:29:30 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 15:29:30 -0800
Subject: ANN: EasyGui update - simple GUI interface for Python programs
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0403041529.1d2f0883@posting.google.com>

I've just released easygui version 0.66
It is available at http://www.ferg.org/easygui

This version adds a few useful features:

	Multchoicebox is like choicebox (i.e. a listbox), but it allows the 
	user to select multiple entries. Results are returned in a list.	

	Password box is like enterbox, except that the data-entry field is 
	masked with asterisks. 

	Multpassword box is like multenterbox, except that the last 	
	data-entry field is masked with asterisks.

	The cancel (X) box in dialog titlebars has been disabled.  This 
	makes it clearer what the user chose, since a user MUST choose one 
	of the programmed choices.
	

For those not familiar with EasyGui, here is an excerpt from the 
documentation:

******************************

Experienced Pythonistas need support for quick and dirty GUI features. 
New Python programmers need GUI capabilities that don't require any 
knowledge of tkinter, frames, widgets, callbacks or lambda. This is what 
EasyGui provides.   Using EasyGui, all GUI interactions are invoked by 
simple function calls. 

EasyGui is different from other GUIs in that it is NOT event-driven.  It 
allows  you to program in a traditional linear fashion, and to put up 
dialogs for simple  input and output when you need to. If you are new to 
the event-driven paradigm  for GUIs, EasyGui will allow you to be 
productive with very basic tasks immediately. Later, if you wish to make 
the transition to an event-driven GUI  paradigm, you can move to an 
event-driven style with a more powerful GUI package such as anygui, 
PythonCard, Tkinter, wxPython, etc. EasyGui is there just to do very 
basic stuff.  More elaborate stuff should be done with more powerful 
tools.

Here is a code snippet using EasyGui.

    msg ="What is your favorite flavor?"
    title = "Ice Cream Survey"
    choices = ["Vanilla", "Chocolate", "Strawberry", "Rocky Road"]
    choice = choicebox(msg, title, choices)
	
    # note that we convert choice to string, in case
    # the user cancelled the choice, and we got None.
    msgbox("You chose: " + str(choice), "Survey Result")


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Fri Mar 19 00:16:45 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:16:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Py Tic Tac Toe in action
Message-ID: <20040319051645.11698.qmail@web8301.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello folks,

See the Py Tic Tac Toe in action at
http://balajin.net/cgi-bin/pyttt.py

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 15:10:35 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:10:35 +0100
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at> <c280b0$1g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<MFL1c.72838$aH3.2231792@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <c282fs$4vf$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

> "Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
> news:c280b0$1g3$03$1 at news.t-online.com...
> 
>> key in theDict.keys()
> 
>> changes the lookup from constant time (a hash value is calculated which
>> is used as an index into a list of values if all goes well) to
>> proportonial
> to
>> len(theDict) because on average half of the list has to be searched
>> before the matching entry is found.
> 
> Worse:  Evaluating theDict.keys() requires building a list from all the
> keys.  So even if the key is the first element of the list, the run time
> is O(len(theDict)).

Might be interesting to measure the impact of boths effects separately by
keeping a copy of keys that will be updated in the if clause.

> Moreover, there's no way for the compiler to optimize such expressions in
> general, because it doesn't know the type of theDict during compilation.

Conclusion: the outward similarity of the

value in theList

and 

key in theDict

tests *is* dangerous if you are concerned about speed.

Peter



From dlee at rightnow.com  Sat Mar 27 17:53:53 2004
From: dlee at rightnow.com (Lee, Dustin)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:53 -0700
Subject: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
Message-ID: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E16@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>

I've looked at it briefly (if I recall it is written in Perl).  I may go back and investigate that more thoroughly but I still wonder:
 
- Are there any Python based examples?
- Is webmin well designed? (Not trying to troll, just curious if it is well thought out or just a hack)
 
If any of you were to design such a beast (web based system admin tool) from scratch which framework would you consider a good match?
 
dustin
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Skip Montanaro  
	Sent: Sat 3/27/2004 7:04 AM 
	To: Lee, Dustin 
	Cc: python-list at python.org 
	Subject: Re: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
	
	


	    Dustin> I'm looking for an example of a well designed web application
	    Dustin> used to do sys-admin type functions. 
	
	I think the most popular tool in this space is WebMIN
	<http://www.webmin.com/>.
	
	Skip
	
	

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From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 20:09:56 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:09:56 -0800
Subject: Newbie question on wxNotebook
In-Reply-To: <c3255r$fgb$1@news.gatel.net>
References: <c3255r$fgb$1@news.gatel.net>
Message-ID: <c35kao$sdi$1@news.service.uci.edu>

The sizing information is never getting passed down to the wxNotebook.

Try the following in the "MyFrame" class:

     def OnSize(self, event):
         size = event.GetSize()
         print "size:", size.width, size.height
         event.Skip()


  - Josiah


From lilyth at umich.edu  Fri Mar 19 11:17:40 2004
From: lilyth at umich.edu (Lilith)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0800
Subject: Graphing problems (was: Re: Is there a map or graph module?)
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
	<c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <75200cbc.0403190817.10ed1ef3@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3dpmp$7r5$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> Lilith wrote:
> > Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
> > which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
> > finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
> > through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
> > would be less parsimonious.
> > 
> > Thanks for any suggestions!
> 
> Thank Guido, http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html

I figured it out...I needed to use sys.setrecursionlimit. D'oh. :)

Thanks for your help!


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Mar 24 17:30:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:30:52 -0800
Subject: Is this the correct way to implement TestSuite?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F4D@opus.amorhq.net>

Lol McBride wrote:
> Hi all,
> I've been using unittest for a while now but only creating 
> test cases for
> individual modules of an application e.g class foo() has a reciprocal
> module called class fooTestCase() class bar() has a reciprocal module
> called class barTestCase()
> 
> Now my app has quite a few modules and I want to run a single 
> test that
> calls all of the xxxTestCase() modules and therefore runs all 
> of the tests
> I have created so far.

I took a slightly different approach, possibly because I tend to code in
packages. Most of my development assumes 1) the module you want to test
is in site-packages or some other point on syspath, and 2) all your
testing modules are somewhere in the same folder or subfolders of it. If
you can assume those two things as well, try my testpkg module (below).
It's invoked like:

prompt> python testpkg.py mypackage

and will then run all files in that package (and its subfolders) whose
names begin with "test_" and end in ".py".


----testpkg.py----

import os
import sys
import imp
import unittest
import xray

def test_module(module):
    test = unittest.TestLoader().loadTestsFromModule(module)
    result = unittest.TextTestRunner().run(test)
    return result.wasSuccessful()

def modules(dir):
    for name in os.listdir(dir):
        fullname = os.path.join(dir, name)
        if os.path.isdir(fullname):
            for mod in modules(fullname):
                yield mod
        elif name.startswith("test_") and name.endswith(".py"):
            yield fullname

def test_package(packageName):
    filename, pathname, descr = imp.find_module(packageName)
    # TODO: provide for subpackages (packageNames containing dots)
    for name in modules(pathname):
        name = name[len(pathname):]
        if name.startswith(u"\\") or name.startswith(u"/"):
            name = name[1:]
        if name.endswith(u".py"):
            name = name[:-3]
        name = name.replace("/", ".").replace(u"\\", ".")
        name = ".".join((packageName, name))
        try:
            mod = xray.modules(name)
        except ImportError, x:
            x.args += (name, )
            raise x
        print "Module: " + name
        test_module(mod)
        del mod

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test_package(sys.argv[1])



This uses my xray module, btw, which you can find at:

http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/xray.py


HTH!

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Wed Mar 31 12:05:00 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:05:00 -0800
Subject: Number formats in wxpython
In-Reply-To: <39cbe663.0403141140.34618da3@posting.google.com>
References: <39cbe663.0403141140.34618da3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0TCac.682$JX6.82@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Piet wrote:
> I am developping a small Python/wxPython app to track expenses. A
> bunch of information is collected in a wxGUI consisting of text
> controls, comboboxes and a small grid. Some values are not put in by
> the user, but are calculated (e.g. the price of 789 g apples when 1 kg
> is 1.99 ? or the mean fuel consumption of a car when the user puts in
> the amount of fuel and the driven distance). The values from the
> calculations and from the user inputs are stored in an external file.
> I would like to define the format of currency information by setting
> the number of digits after the decimal point to two. THe information
> displayed in the grid can be controlled by using cell renderers, but
> the do not influence the output. Is there something like number
> formats in wxPytghon, such as the formats known from Mic++++++'s
> ex***?

Take a look at the MaskedEditCtrl classes in the library.

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 29 09:50:10 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:50:10 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.11.1080489481.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc6du9d.f9b.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.55.1080568422.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6gc7a.i1i.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.55.1080568422.20120.python-list at python.org>, Jeff Epler wrote:
>> BTW, I've got three pure-python solutions now (four when this one's
>> fixed) but it turns out they all suffer from a flaw:
>> 
>> >>> class TestProto: l = []
>> ... 
>> >>> class Test2(TestProto): pass
>> ... 
>> >>> TestProto.l
>> []
>> >>> Test2.l
>> []
>> >>> Test2.l.append(0)
>> >>> Test2.l
>> [0]
>> >>> TestProto.l
>> [0]
>> 
>> We really need copy-on-write lists and dicts - and large objects in
>> general - for this to work.
> 
> Can't you just follow the Python rule for classes with a little
> difference?
> * if you want some data to be shared by reference among the Prototype
>   and all its children, declare it at 'prototype' ('class') scope
> * if you don't, create it in __init__

Possibly.  You need something, at least - full copy-on-write seems like
the most transparent, but also the most work to set up.  (I'm still
reading up on Self and others to find out how they handle these things.)

Hmm, your method sounds like it would work.  In fact, I guess it would
already do that as written, wouldn't it?

The use case I was thinking of was something like this (I'm going to use
"object" instead of "class" from now on for pseudocode):

    object UrlDispatcher:

        def __init__(self):
            self.handlers = { "http:" : HttpHandler, "ftp:" : FtpHandler }

    object SSLUrlDispatcher(UrlDispatcher):

        def __init__(self):
            UrlDispatcher.__init__(self)
            self.handlers["https:"] = SSLHttpHandler

So each instance of URLDispatcher and descendants has its own, entirely
unshared copy of handlers.  One drawback of this is that if you add a
handler to UrlDispatcher at runtime, it isn't inherited by clones that
have already been initialized.

The other approach I suggested - replacing lists and dicts in
prototype-baed objects with a customized version - could make this more
transparent.  Say, look up the value in SSLUrlDispatcher.handlers, then
UrlDispatcher.handlers only if not found, and only then throw an error
if the key still isn't found.  The question is whether it's useful to
put this complexity in the prototype system, or just provide classes
that do this in a library (which can just be done by third parties as
needed) and give coders the option of saying "handlers = ProtoDict()"
instead of "handlers = {}".

Joe


From jeremy+plusnews at jeremysanders.net  Mon Mar  1 11:25:23 2004
From: jeremy+plusnews at jeremysanders.net (Jeremy Sanders)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:25:23 +0000
Subject: Plotting modules
References: <c1m6vd$sij$2@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2004.02.27.14.31.31.60844@jeremysanders.net>
	<403FC608.1010008@telus.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.01.16.25.23.3528@jeremysanders.net>

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:34:48 -0500, DG wrote:

> Nice output.  Looks almost biggles-ish, maybe better.

Thanks. I'll inform people here when it's in a workable state.

Jeremy



From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Tue Mar 30 17:23:50 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 22:23:50 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<nBiac.42307$PY.17419@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <4069F371.B4D08F58@doe.carleton.ca>

Robin Munn wrote:
> 
> Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > This is not a troll posting, and I've refrained from
> > asking because I've seen similar threads get all
> > nitter-nattery.
> [snip: poster is basically asking "Should I learn Perl or Python?"]
> 
> While availability of libraries for your specific tasks is a major
> factor to take into consideration, I'd say that even more important is
> to figure out which language fits your brain.
> 
> I first learned Perl, then Python. I now use Python almost exclusively,
> because I found that Python fits my mental "map" much better than Perl
> does. To me, it seemed like in Perl, everything was a string. Sure, you
> could have objects and classes, but they felt strange and awkward -- how
> do I translate the "bless" keyword into my mental model? Whereas
> Python's object model translated perfectly into my mental map, to the
> point where programming in Python gave a clarity that I never had when
> using Perl. It's hard to explain why, exactly -- it just seemed like
> when using Perl, I was always going back down to the level of details,
> the trees in the forest. Python allows me to look at the entire forest.
> I can still go down and look at trees if I need to, but I don't have to
> operate in that mode all the time.
> 
> Your mileage *will* vary. There's no substitute for experience. Set
> yourself a simple task (say, writing a sieve of Eratosthenes program)
> that you could do in about an hour with a language you're familiar with.
> Then write the same program in Perl and in Python, and see which one
> fits *your* brain better.


Well, my bout with Perl took much, much more than an hour.
It worked, though.  It's probably not enough experience to
get a good look at the strength of Perl.  For example, I
am a vim user (an editor), which is cryptic at first, but
let's you fly when you get to know it.  I'm not saying that
all things cryptic are efficient in the end, just that a
brief bout won't always uncover the strengths.  As a
"working model", I've decided to use Perl as the workhorse,
and keep tabs on Python as time permits.  If my mental map
works better with Python, it's ease of ramping up will
allow the better fit to shine through despite the lesser
time I spend with it.  Then it will naturally take a more
prominent role.  Thanks for the advice on checking out both.
It seems to be the most realistic, and in line with what
many have suggested.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From hufman at cobalty.com  Thu Mar  4 18:07:10 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 17:07:10 -0600
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
References: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<onod401p4rjbe9kuu10q6518l93ds7rks3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A2AE1DD991CGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in
news:onod401p4rjbe9kuu10q6518l93ds7rks3 at 4ax.com: 
> 
> Really?  This is such a common problem that most Windows Python
> programmers encounter it very early in their experiments.
> 
> The issue, of course, is that stdout is opened as a text file, not as
> a binary file, and we all know that the LF to CR-LF conversion you
> describe is part of the normal processing of a text file in Windows.
> 
> If you must send binary data through stdout, do this before you start
> to write:
> 
>   import os
>   import msvcrt
>   ...
>   msvcrt.setmode( stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY )

Awesome, thanks! I'm quite new at Python. I've done a lot in Visual Basic, 
and even written a couple cgiprogs in basic, but my server on the 
internet(http://hufman.cobalty.com) is a linux server, and, Micro$oft being 
Micro$oft, there is no visual basic compiler or interpreter for linux. I 
started learning Python last Sunday, so I wouldn't know anything about the 
conversions. Well, I knew about the newline conversions, I think, but I 
didn't know how to get around it. I couldn't find anything about it in the 
help. Thank you though!

--Walter Huf--
hufman at cobalty.com


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 16:15:43 2004
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 13:15:43 -0800
Subject: XML best practices (was: Python as replacement for PHP?)
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com>
	<mailman.218.1077916834.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<30260531.0402271901.1bbdda99@posting.google.com>
	<1040489b2ookafd@corp.supernews.com>
	<1hd240haqpbmnqdltavdt6t24ue0jvcl92@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0403031315.1bacf2c7@posting.google.com>

Andy Dingley <dingbat at codesmiths.com> wrote in message news:<1hd240haqpbmnqdltavdt6t24ue0jvcl92 at 4ax.com>...
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:54:49 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
> wrote:
> 
> >Let me get this straight:  your preferred vehicle for XML
> >parsing is Perl regular expressions?  That's ... well, 
> 
> Rather more restrained a comment than I'd be capable of expressing ?

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/litotes.html maybe?


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 24 08:51:19 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:51:19 +1100
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <du7lllqfkce.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.333.1080132076.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqfkce.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <20040324135119.GB23307@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 03:25:21PM +0200, Ville Vainio wrote:
> >>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:
> 
>     Andrew> Which is to say, I don't understand how that can work --
>     Andrew> the first definition of foo gets clobbered.
> 
> Yes, the name 'foo' gets clobbered every time, but the decorator
> always returns the *dispatcher* that is capable of dispatching the
> call to the correct definition of 'foo'. The dispatcher preserves the
> references to the callables, so they don't get decreffed out of
> existence.
> 
> The dispatcher obviously needs a reference to a module global dict
> object of some sort, with some magical name like
> '__mm_dispatcher_registry'.
> 
[...]
> 
>     Andrew> How is the registry not going to help distinguish between
>     Andrew> the foo methods from C, and the foo methods from C2?
> 
> It's not. I'm still thinking of multimethods mostly as plain functions
> with dynamic dispatching on arg types, not actual methods. To get the
> functionality in methods, you just need to call the mm function
> explicitly with an unique name inside the method.

Ah, I see.  I was thinking of methods, but you were thinking of functions.

But the same problem still applies: how would the multimethod decorator
distinguish between a "foo" function in moduleA, and a "foo" function in
moduleB?  By inspecting the function's __module__ attribute?  This degree of
introspection feels a bit too magical (i.e. implicit) to me...

-Andrew.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar  8 23:44:07 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:44:07 -0500
Subject: Unit testing - suitable for all development?
References: <153fa67.0403070839.77ae66e6@posting.google.com><104mo6mjpc1lq74@news.supernews.com><153fa67.0403071515.7cf93986@posting.google.com><104nnqlq81dvj48@news.supernews.com><153fa67.0403081300.42e2d061@posting.google.com>
	<c2j9ea$1ug17d$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c2ji2m$d3f$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c2j9ea$1ug17d$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> It sounds like you have a similar situation as I have
> with Pyrex. The Pyrex compiler is made up of a large
> number of parts which interact in very complex ways.
> Each part on its own is fairly simple, and while it
> *could* be tested on its own after a fashion, this
> wouldn't really help much, because most of the
> interesting things happen in the interactions between
> the parts, rather than inside the parts themselves.
>
> I haven't bothered doing unit testing in the conventional
> sense with Pyrex. What I have instead is a large collection
> of very small Pyrex files, each of which exercises some
> feature of the Pyrex language. Running the test consists
> of compiling the file and checking that the generated code
> matches previously verified output.

The main test files for the Python interpreter are similar, testing that
0+1==1, 2*2==4, 'a'+'a'=='aa', [0,1][1]==1, and so on for hundreds of
compile and execute cases intended to cover every syntax feature possible.

Perhaps the OP can do something similar: set up minimal game world and
repeatedly direct a simple action ('pick up nearest object') and check for
intended change of state (inventory contains small dagger that it did not
before).

Terry J. Reedy






From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 29 20:25:21 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:25:21 +1200
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c4aia1$2d44ll$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Joe Mason wrote:
> In article <95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9 at posting.google.com>, Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
>>Uh? The base class __init__ method is not called when I derive a new
>>class. I want to make the make the check at class level, *before*
>>instantiating. 
> 
> It is if you call the inherited __init__ method, which you should be
> doing because it probably does important stuff.

But presumably he wants the check done only once, when a subclass
is defined, *not* every time said subclass is instantiated. In
Prothon it appears that both of these end up invoking the same
__init__ method, so there's no way of telling them apart.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 09:59:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:59:26 -0600
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16477.44494.544581.766532@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jon> [ expand jar file - presto! instant app ]

    Aahz> .... I am sure that simple cases work as you describe, but I'd
    Aahz> like a cite for Java working as you describe in general.

    Jon> Yes.  Java works like that ... [ mentions Batik ]

The fundamental difference between Java and Python in this regard is that
the JVM must absolutely be part of the defined API since it is delivered
separate from the compiler.  Whoever does this stuff probably has to go to
great lengths to preserve compatibility.  This is not the case for the
Python VM, since a new version is delivered with each distribution.

Skip




From vedranf at riteh.hr  Fri Mar  5 06:11:54 2004
From: vedranf at riteh.hr (Vedran Furac)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:11:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Impersonation
References: <slrnc4ba2e.jbl.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>
	<ubrnd7hmz.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4go3q.fee.vedranf@rijeka.riteh.hr>

On 03 Mar 2004 16:19:48 -0500, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
> Vedran Furac <vedranf at riteh.hr> writes:
> 
>> I would like to run a program as another user in win2k. I have runas
>> utility but with this I need type password all the time. Using python and
>> windows extensions it is posibile to write a program that will do this, here
>> is a code:
> 
> It's probably the fact that os.execv is bubbling down into a normal
> CreateProcess call at the win32 API level.  But if the calling process
> is impersonating a user, CreateProcess uses the authentication token
> for the calling process itself, and not the impersonation token.
> 
> There is a CreateProcessAsUser call that works just like

Yes, that was the problem, using CreateProsessAsUser() fixes the problem.
Thanks!


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 02:13:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:13:16 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:

> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
> 
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.

I don't understand this, though it's been mentioned before.

On my machine, launching the wxPython Demo app takes roughly 0 seconds
before the splash screen appears, and I can immediately click on it
and get the app itself, for a total launch time of: immeasurably fast.

I would think, given the size of the demo itself, that just about
anything it does should be representative of other apps on the
same machine.

For the record, running WinXP AMD 2200 with adequate RAM etc.

Are these reports of slow wxPython startup only coming from really old
machines or something?

-Peter


From paul.kemp at standardbank.com  Mon Mar  8 08:49:59 2004
From: paul.kemp at standardbank.com (Paul)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 05:49:59 -0800
Subject: py2exe - COM Server problem
Message-ID: <bb8e48c9.0403080549.247efa4f@posting.google.com>

Hi all

I've been trying to build a COM Server as an executable using Py2exe. 
I had a few problems, so I came back to using Thomas Heller's basic
example (copied below).  When I build this, I still get an error.  I
can register Python.TestServer (testcomserver.exe --register),
however, when I try to create an instance of it (e.g. using VBA), a
command prompt window appears with the title:

d:\...\testcomserver.exe /automate

And the command prompt window just sits there!  Eventually, VBA times
out.

I really don't understand, because I've succeeded with COM servers and
Py2Exe in the past, and have never seen this before.

Can anyone help?

Thanks
Paul

---

import sys
import pythoncom

if hasattr(sys, 'importers'):
    # we are running as py2exe-packed executable
    pythoncom.frozen = 1

sys.frozen = 1

class HelloWorld:
    _reg_clsctx_ = pythoncom.CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER
    if hasattr(sys, 'importers'):
        # In the py2exe-packed version, specify the module.class
        # to use. In the python script version, python is able
        # to figure it out itself.
        _reg_class_spec_ = "__main__.HelloWorld"
    _reg_clsid_ = "{B83DD222-7750-413D-A9AD-01B37021B24B}"
    _reg_desc_ = "Python Test COM Server"
    _reg_progid_ = "Python.TestServer"
    _public_methods_ = ['Hello']
    _public_attrs_ = ['softspace', 'noCalls']
    _readonly_attrs_ = ['noCalls']
    def __init__(self):
        self.softspace = 1
        self.noCalls = 0
    # __init__()

    def Hello(self, who):
        self.noCalls = self.noCalls + 1
        # insert "softspace" number of spaces
        return "Hello" + " " * self.softspace + str(who)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    if hasattr(sys, 'importers'):
        # running as packed executable.
        if '--register' in sys.argv[1:] or '--unregister' in
sys.argv[1:]:
            # --register and --unregister work as usual
            import win32com.server.register
            win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(HelloWorld)
        else:
            # start the server.
            from win32com.server import localserver
            localserver.main()
    else:
        import win32com.server.register
        win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(HelloWorld)

---------

setup.py:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name='testCOMserver',
      scripts=['testCOMserver.py'])

vba:

dim o as object
set o = CreateObject("Python.TestServer")


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Fri Mar 26 07:22:46 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:22:46 +0100
Subject: Python in the laboratory
References: <cthu10chwkb.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <Xns94B889E045142cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Zunbeltz Izaola 


> papers defending the goodness of python for such aplications. 
> Can s0mebody give me references about projects of this nature?

http://pythonology.org/success
http://python.oreilly.com/news/python_success_stories.pdf
http://wingide.com/success/
http://pbf.strakt.com/success


Good Luck

Harald


From no at sp.am  Sun Mar 28 12:45:49 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:45:49 -0600
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
In-Reply-To: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <r4idnebU2MfTkvrdRVn-uA@comcast.com>

Sean Ross wrote:

> Here's a breakdown of most of the syntax discussed re: PEP318 using an
> example from python-dev. There are probably several more (I've added [10]).
> The example applies both function decoration and annotation.

These are all ugly and unreadable.  If you had to do this I'd go with #9 
docstrings, but use javadoc (only the @ parts).

Actually it looks like epydoc already does this:
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
See their example:
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/epytextintro.html
and list of all @tags:
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/fields.html

An example with function decorators too:

def addObserver(self, obs) [synchronized, classmethod]:
     """
     Add an observer to be notified when something changes.

     @author:     John Smith
     @deprecated: The reason why this is deprecated.
     @param obs:  The observer, a class with a "notify" method or
                  else a function or callable.
     """

Note though this all really is beyond the initial scope of PEP 318.


From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 06:22:35 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 03:22:35 -0800
Subject: Error handling in smtp
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403250322.7d064f78@posting.google.com>

Hi
I want to handle all the error that are thrown by smtp
Do I have to handle each error seperately
i.e
except SMTPConnectError:
except SMTPResponseException: etc


Also, howe is this error handled
error: (10061, 'Connection refused')
I tried to handle it with except SMTPConnectError:
But noluck
Thanks,
James


From tundra at tundraware.com  Tue Mar  9 19:27:28 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 19:27:28 EST
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
Message-ID: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>

One of the things I find myself needing over and over is providing an
external configuration file for use by my applications. For various
reasons, I have not been satisfied with other solutions to this problem
I have seen so far.

So ...I am about 25% done with a new Python module I've wanted to write
for some time. It is intended as general purpose configuration file
parser complete with conditionals, variable substitution, etc. The idea
is that you hand it the name of a configuration file, and it returns a
populated symbol table, ready-to-use.

Anyway, I am going to be looking for people to stress test this thing
when it is ready. If interested, let me know _off-list_...

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Wed Mar 10 16:49:47 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:49:47 +0100
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2o2hs$b5r$1@bagan.srce.hr>

David MacQuigg wrote:

> syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
> situations.  Examples:

No, don't do that!! I hate perl precisley because of littering the code 
with 'special characters'! The beauty of python code as it is, is that 
it reads like a book, with punctuation to help the reader, rather than 
the typesetter.



From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Sat Mar 20 18:25:26 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:25:26 -0500
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.196.1079818987.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.196.1079818987.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yp47c.27050$Eb6.897883@news20.bellglobal.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> 
>>In several occasions, I found myself looking for a function 
>>that would take a value and restrict is within a specified
>>set of boundaries...
>>
>>def restrain(value, theMin, theMax) :
>>
>>     assert(theMax >= theMin)
>>     return min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
>>
> 
> 
> I'd find a limit() function more useful, where either min or max is
> optional:
> 
> def limit(value, lower=None, upper=None):
>     """Return value limited by lower and/or upper bounds."""
>     
>     if upper is not None:
>         value = min(value, upper)
>     if lower is not None:
>         value = max(value, lower)
>     return value
> 
> This allows for single-boundary limits:
> 
> 
>>>>limit(3, 5)
> 
> 5
> 
>>>>limit(3, upper=1)
> 
> 1
> 
> And a no-op:
> 
> 
>>>>limit(3)
> 
> 3
> 
I was trying to make it as fast as possible but the additional 
flexibility is nice. The word 'limit' is probably closer to min and max 
and easier to read.  I wonder if the word limit would clash with more 
existing programs though.

> Also, you don't need to assert that upper >= lower; in fact, if upper is
> less than lower, you can use the same function for exclusive boundaries:
> 
> 
>>>>limit(3, 5, 1)
> 
> 5
True, however, the reason for such a function, instead of the inline 
min(max()) was to provide for some protection in some defensive 
programming way.

> 
> However, I find both restrain(3, 1, 5) and limit(3, 1, 5) difficult to
> read. It would be nice to produce the same thing with some other syntax.
I agree that the way it reads leaves me wishing for some Smalltalkish 
way of saying:  limit value to min,max

> If we did it in C, we could at least write: limit(lower=None, value,
> upper=None). But perhaps there's some other means I'm not thinking of.
> It'd be nice to have "value" look different than upper and lower. Maybe
> something like: limit(value, (lower, upper)), or even value.limit(lower,
> upper) using a __limit__ customizable method. Hmm.

However, if upper and lower are inside a tuple, then restrain (or limit) 
could not be used to restrain or limit multi-dimensional values like 
tuple and list like in:

 >>> map(restrain, (10,15,20) , (11,14,19) , (12,18, 20))
[11, 15, 20]





From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar 13 19:03:47 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:03:47 -0800
Subject: Python & the job market
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EE3@opus.amorhq.net>

kbass wrote:
> I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job 
> market looks for programming using Python. I really don't see
> many jobs (probably one or two) that require Python experience
> at all. Most DBA and SA positions that I have seen require
> Perl and most development position require Java or C++ so
> how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little 
> to no chance that an employer will require the use of Python
> or consider using Python over other programming languages
> such as Java?

Java was designed to benefit your career. Python was designed to benefit
your life. Pick one.


FuManChu



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 14:07:51 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:07:51 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16485.53511.280337.321187@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Stephen> Different people have different tab sizes set up in their
    Stephen> editors. As long as you don't mix tabs and spaces, the
    Stephen> indentation itself will be clear - but having a different tab
    Stephen> size can break other aspects of vertical alignment, damaging
    Stephen> readability in other ways.  It isn't as bad as the problems
    Stephen> that arise when mixing tabs and spaces for indentation, but IMO
    Stephen> it is bad enough.

Tim Peters used to complain often enough that email messages I posted which
contained bits of Python code I typed into them contained mixtures of tabs
and spaces (which muffed the layout in his mail reader) that I finally added
a little bit of code to my XEmacs setup to untabify all outgoing mail:

    (defun untab-buffer ()
      (untabify (point-min) (point-max)))
    (add-hook 'mail-send-hook 'untab-buffer)

Tim hasn't complained about that aspect of my Python since then.  (Other
things, yes, but not tabs).

Skip



From theller at python.net  Mon Mar 22 15:36:00 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:36:00 +0100
Subject: Need Help Using Py2Exe
References: <c3ng2q+3vit@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <7jxcfwlr.fsf@python.net>

"upward_spiral2001" <kschnee at xepher.net> writes:

> Hi. I've got a neat artificial intelligence project I want to 
> distribute as an EXE. I'm using Python, Pygame, and Numeric. My 
> problem is: When I use py2exe, I'm told "The following modules 
> appear to be missing: AppKit, Foundation, dotblas, objc." And then 
> my EXE crashes with a "segmentation fault." I tried the command:
>
> python setup.py py2exe --ignores [those modules]
>
> It then compiles w/o complaint, but the EXE still crashes. The 
> setup.py is very simple:
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import py2exe
> setup(console=["NissIslandDemo.py"])

Most certainly one of the extension modules (either from pygame, or from
Numeric, or even both) is importing another module from C code, and
py2exe cannot find these dependencies.

You have to find it yourself, and include it in the py2exe build.

An interesting experiment would be to set an PY2EXEVERBOSE environment
variable and run the crashing executable in this environment.  The
PY2EXEVERBOSE variable does the same as the PYTHONVERBOSE env var or the
-v flag for the normal Python interpreter - imports are printed to the
standard output.  Maybe this can help to find the missing module?

Thomas




From ville at spammers.com  Thu Mar 25 01:38:06 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 08:38:06 +0200
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<jKKdnVcj5pGpEcLdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
	<du7isgw83n5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<c3t11s$619$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <du7oeqlv3ch.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Jarek" == Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

    Jarek> Oh, dear...

    Jarek> I think the best way of lobbying for Python adoption is to
    Jarek> write good software with Python.

I think the best way is to urge your friends/coworkers to try
it. Esp. if you are not in Open Source business, and your work is not
visible to public.

Still, there are masses of people out there who never hear of anything
that is not Java, C(++) or one of those Microsoft languages. It
wouldn't hurt to get some good buzz going in that audience.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Mar  8 05:36:54 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:36:54 GMT
Subject: "print" as function not statement
In-Reply-To: <Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>
	<Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <a1Y2c.417$vv4.309920@monger.newsread.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> You need a bit more checking to be sure nobody tried to pass in any 
> unexpected keyword arguments, and your output loop is a bit messy.

Why check for unknown keyword arguments? It seems to me that better 
forward-compatibility is achieved if we ignore them.

You're right about the output loop, though. I haven't really tried list 
comprehensions yet, so I didn't even think of using them. Thanks.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 03:12:11 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 09:12:11 +0100
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
	<6ee58e07.0403231151.36de00d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyf3c7y64v8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) writes:

> Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> >  > That rather depends on what you mean by "Python-like".
> > 
> > 
> > Oh dear...
> 
> yes, oh my dear...., you posted a troll question.
> 
> There is nothing like that what you want. It is just not there because
> it is impossible.

Huh ?

> It simply does not work with languages like python which are
> extremely dynamic - including metaprogramming.

So how do you explain the existence of compilers (to-native-binary)
for languages just as dynamic as Python ?

> Even a full compiled LISP, that means safety settings set to lowest
> priority and typedeclarations everywhere simply isn't much of the
> lisp you may (not) know.

What on earth are you talking about?

Type declarations and safety settings in Lisp have an influence on the
amount of checks (array bounds, overflows, type-checks and so on) that
are performed at run-time. This is completely, totally and utterly
orthogonal to "compliation to binary".

Common Lisp programs, when fully compiled are fully
compiled. Period. Whether the program contains any type declarations,
or any optimization declarations, has no influence on whether the
program is fully compiled or not. The only thing that has any
influence on whether the program is fully compiled, is whether you
compiled your whole program or just bits of it.

You appear to be thoroughly confused about what "compliation" means.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 15 21:53:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:53:56 -0500
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <mailman.13.1079398001.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105cr4i7evg2gce@news.supernews.com>


"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
news:mailman.13.1079398001.742.python-list at python.org...
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>
> #-
> #- > Also, at one point there was going to be an O'Reilly book on
> #- > Tkinter, did that die?
> #-
> #- yes.
> #-
>
> What a pitty. Is there some project to document Tkinter?

"Python and Tkinter Programming" by Grayson (Manning 2000)
is still availible. It's a bit long in the tooth, but it's still a very
good guide.

John Roth
>
> Thanks!
>
> . Facundo
>




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 21:12:34 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:12:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040316021234.71773.qmail@web8307.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
Premshree Pillai wrote:
> > Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> > strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily
> bound
> > to a particular type.
> 
> Python 1.5.2 (#1, Jan 31 2003, 11:01:49)  [GCC 2.96
> 20000731 (Red Hat 
> Linux 7.2 2 on linux-i386
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum,
> Amsterdam
>  >>> a = 1
>  >>> a
> 1
>  >>> a = "fred"
>  >>> a
> 'fred'
>  >>> a = open
>  >>> a
> <built-in function open>
>  >>>
> 
> So here was have a variable 'a'. In the first
> instance I set it to a 
> number. Then I set it to a string. Now in a strongly
> typed language, 
> such as C or C++, would be screaming that "fred" was
> not an integer. 
> Then we set it to, in effect, a pointer to a
> function. Again no error.
> 
> Could you please clarify how this consitutes Python
> being 'strongly typed'?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Well, that was not what I meant. When I said that
variables are bound to a particular type, I meant that
variables necessarily have a specific type; I didn't
say that you cannot change its type. Consider this:

>>> str = 10
>>> len(str)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in ?
    len(str)
TypeError: len() of unsized object
>>> 

This was what I meant. See the following:

>>> foo = "x"
>>> foo = foo + 2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
    foo = foo + 2
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>>> 

The above returns a TypeError in Python, but not in
PHP, which is weakly typed.

Get it?

-Premshree Pillai 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From kvdvm at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 00:03:42 2004
From: kvdvm at yahoo.com (kvdvm)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:03:42 -0000
Subject: How to stop a listening socket.accept()?
Message-ID: <c2u4ne+b6fv@eGroups.com>

It seems that the accept() method acts as stubborn as a mule to get a 
connection request even if I close it in another thread.

Any idea will be deeply appreciated.




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar 16 16:04:55 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:04:55 -0700
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
References: <40576A00.9090506@sstar.com>
Message-ID: <038001c40b9a$5598e890$6401fea9@YODA>

John wrote:
> At this point, using the command
>    conn = psycopg.connect("dbname=personal", serialize=0)
> from psycogq documentation, I get
>    NameError: name 'psycopg' is not defined
>
> What am I missing?

Hi John. You need to import the module first:

import psycopg

You may have more errors to figure out, but this will at least get you to the
next step.

-Dave




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Sun Mar  7 03:27:55 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:27:55 -0500
Subject: extending python
References: <10895173.0403050231.35c977ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnkvflhoyd0.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, alain.dimier at andra.fr (dimier) wrote:

> I have created a module in python based on a C program and it works
> fine. I created it without using swig.
> I tried to create a class to go to //isation and ran in problems. I
> created the class, but calling the associated methods,as an example, I
> get the following message:
>
> RuntimeError: Error in define_verbose
>
> Notice thar define_verbose has arguments.
>
> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?

Yes; you're not giving enough information to solve your problem (and I
left my mind-reading hat at home).

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From grsNOSPAM at NO-SPAMmail.com  Thu Mar  4 13:38:42 2004
From: grsNOSPAM at NO-SPAMmail.com (Guillaume)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:38:42 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <4046C71D.9060008@joncruz.org>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<tMw1c.58353$um1.34455@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<4046C71D.9060008@joncruz.org>
Message-ID: <404777ac$0$5911$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

> Well, I happen to use that "fairly useless" language daily in working 
> with Java.

Hehe, nice. ;-)


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Tue Mar 23 10:00:22 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:00:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: SOLVED: Re: ftplib - uploading files using transfercmd?
References: <ti7l50tfm3k5dmu11q9sfui1q8e85mav1h@4ax.com>
	<7mru509ghdlv0cfu538nfau3kcs3vtn268@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3pje6$6j5$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Kevin Ollivier <kevino at tulane.edu> writes:

>OK, I finally figured out how to fix my problems with the FTP commands
>being issued in the wrong order - after I've finished uploading the
>file, I have to call ftplib.voidresp().

>Is it possible to get this added as a note to the docs for
>ftplib.transfercmd()?  IIUC, you must always call ftp.voidresp() after
>uploading a file using transfercmd(), and if that's the case, then I
>think it'd be helpful to add a note about it in the ftplib docs so
>that the next person to come along and try something like this doesn't
>run into the same problem. 

It's more complicated than that.  You have to be aware that FTP commands
generate responses, sometimes multiple responses but I think that's so rare
you can ignore it.  Most of the ftplib commands hide this, when I replied to
the first post, I could see that the problem was probably that you weren't
eating your responses, unfortunately I didn't read your message carefully
enough to notice you were calling transfercmd directly (tsk tsk) and hence my
explanation was crap (sorry).  In general you will often need to know what the
response actually is, however neither of the response gathering methods is
exposed, which is probably worth remedying.

Which brings me to the observation in that in such cases it's often best just
to look at the source.  I had a similar problem when trying to turn an FTP
call into a generator but soon noticed all those calls to voidresp.  

However it's probably worth trying to get the documentation augmented to
remind users that transfercmd may need to handle responses and to request that
at least getresp be added as a public interface.  I think there's a
special mail address for such requests but I'm too lazy^H^H^H^Hbusy to look it
up just now.

Eddie


From reed at reedmedia.net  Wed Mar 17 14:50:18 2004
From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:50:18 -0600
Subject: The python bindings for gconf (gnome-python2-gconf) could not be
	found.
Message-ID: <6vKdnQ0Jt_dnNsXdRVn-sA@whidbeytel.com>

Configuring gramps (genealogy software) says:

checking Python bindings for gtk... ok
checking Python bindings for GNOME... ok
checking Python bindings for gconf... Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "conftest.py", line 17, in ?
    import gnome.gconf
ImportError: No module named gconf
cat: conftest.out: No such file or directory
configure: error:
**** The python bindings for gconf (gnome-python2-gconf) could not be found.
*** Error code 1


I am able to repeat it with this simple python script (based on the
configure code):

-=-=-=-
try:
    import pygtk
    pygtk.require('2.0')
except ImportError:
    pass

def out(str):
    f = open('conftest.out', 'w')
    f.write(str)
    f.close()

try:
    import gconf
    out("YES")
except ImportError:
    import gnome.gconf
    out("YES")
except ImportError:
    out("NO")
-=-=-=-

For example:

$ python gconf.test.python
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "gconf.test.python", line 16, in ?
    import gnome.gconf
ImportError: No module named gconf

I have gnome-python-2.0.0 installed. I installed using pkgsrc build system
and it did not work. And I installed directly from source too.

I assume I have the gconf module installed. How can I find out?

I have:

-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       296026 Mar 17 05:30
/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.a
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root         1114 Mar 17 06:08
/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.la
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root       182087 Mar 17 06:08
/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        29603 Mar 17 06:08
/usr/share/pygtk/2.0/defs/gconf.defs


How can I get python to tell me what it is doing when it looks for
and tries the module?

I have built and installed this several times before. Just the past few
days something has changed in my python setup or in my gnome-python.

My python is:
$ python -V    
Python 2p3.3

It is as installed using pkgsrc under Linux. (The package name is
python23-pth-2.3.3nb1.)

When I run python with debugging and verbose I get:

# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/glob.py
# /usr/lib/python2p3/glob.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2p3/glob.py
import glob # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2p3/glob.pyc
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so
import gnome # directory /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__module.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__.py
# /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__.pyc matches
/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__.py
import gnome # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__.pyc
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/ltihooks.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/ltihooksmodule.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/ltihooks.py
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/ltihooks.pyc
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/ltihooks.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/ltihooksmodule.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/ltihooks.py
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/ltihooks.pyc
# trying /usr/pkgsrc/databases/gramps/ltihooks.so
# trying /usr/pkgsrc/databases/gramps/ltihooksmodule.so
# trying /usr/pkgsrc/databases/gramps/ltihooks.py
...
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/PIL/ltihooks.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/PIL/ltihooksmodule.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/PIL/ltihooks.py
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/PIL/ltihooks.pyc
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gobject.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gobjectmodule.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gobject.py
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gobject.pyc
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject.so
import gobject # dynamically loaded from /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/_gnome.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gconf.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gconfmodule.so
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gconf.py
# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/gconf.pyc
dlopen("/usr/lib/python2p3/lib-dynload/strop.so", 2);
dlopen("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so", 2);
dlopen("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject.so", 2);
dlopen("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/_gnome.so", 2);
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "gconf.test.python", line 16, in ?
    import gnome.gconf
ImportError: No module named gconf
# clear __builtin__._
# clear sys.path
# clear sys.argv
...


strace tells me:

getdents64(3, /* 108 entries */, 4096)  = 4096
getdents64(3, /* 96 entries */, 4096)   = 3768
getdents64(3, /* 0 entries */, 4096)    = 0
close(3)                                = 0
stat64("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=4096,
...}) = 0
stat64("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf", 0xbfffef40) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
write(2, "# trying /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so\n", 59# trying
/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so
) = 59
open("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=182087, ...}) = 0
open("/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so", O_RDONLY) = 4
read(4,
"\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\310;\0\0004\0\0\0\274\277\2\0\0\0\0\0004\0
\0\3\0(\0\"\0\37\0\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\300\207\0\0\300\207\0\0\5\0\0\0\0\20\0\0\1\0\0\0\
300\207\0\0\300\227\0\0\300\227\0\0D\21\0\0h\21\0\0\6\0\0\0\0\20\0\0\2\0\0\0$\225\0\0$\245\0\0$\245
\0\0\20\1\0\0\20\1\0\0\6\0\0\0\4\0\0\0\305\0\0\0\313\0\0\0\0\0\0\0C\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\272\0\0\0\0\0\0\0
\0\0\0\0U\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\273\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0003\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\257\0\0\0\0\0\0\0[\0\0\0\0\0\0\0
\243\0\0\0\0"...,
1024) = 1024
fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=182087, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 43304, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 4, 0) = 0x4040c000
mprotect(0x40415000, 6440, PROT_NONE)   = 0
old_mmap(0x40415000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 4, 0x8000) =
0x40415000
close(4)                                = 0
open("/usr/gcc3/lib/libgconf-2.so.5", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/libgconf-2.so.5", O_RDONLY) = 4


/usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so does exist.
How can I find out why it was skipped?

$ ldd /usr/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so
        libgconf-2.so.5 => /usr/lib/libgconf-2.so.5 (0x4000c000)
        libORBit-2.so.0 => /usr/lib/libORBit-2.so.0 (0x40044000)
        libgobject-2.0.so.200 => /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.200 (0x40080000)
        libgthread-2.0.so.200 => /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.so.200 (0x400b7000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x400c3000)
        libgmodule-2.0.so.200 => /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.200 (0x400e5000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x400e9000)
        libglib-2.0.so.200 => /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.200 (0x400ec000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x4015d000)
        libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x40275000)
        liblinc.so.1 => /usr/lib/liblinc.so.1 (0x402c6000)
        libpopt.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpopt.so.0 (0x402ce000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)


On a NetBSD system, it works and is slightly different:

# trying /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/glob.py
# /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/glob.pyc matches /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/glob.py
import glob # precompiled from /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/glob.pyc
# trying /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gconf.so
# trying /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject.so
import gobject # dynamically loaded from /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gt
k-2.0/gobject.so
import gconf # dynamically loaded from /usr/pkg/lib/python2p3/site-packages/gtk-
2.0/gconf.so
# clear __builtin__._
# clear sys.path
# clear sys.argv


I am not sure what information is needed to troubleshoot this.
The python and other packages are installed using pkgsrc system.
I am pretty sure the problem is how it was configured or built, but I am
trying to track down where this has changed.

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Thank you,

   Jeremy C. Reed
   http://bsd.reedmedia.net/


From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Mon Mar  8 08:42:03 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:42:03 +0100
Subject: Calling a constructor in a default argument.
Message-ID: <20040308144203.40f85891@pistache.sara.nl>

Hello,


I wrote a function that takes a default argument.
The default arg is set to a constructor call.

I expected this constructor to be called every time I call the func
without the arg.

However, it turns out that the constructor is called only once.
Is this the desired behaviour, or a known bug?

The output of the prog below is:
Set([88, 89])
Set([88, 89, 100, 101])

Whereas I expected:
Set([88, 89])
Set([100, 101])

Thanks,

   Bram

#!/usr/bin/python -i
import sys
import sets
import whrandom


def foo(lst, set=sets.Set()) :
  for i in lst :
    set.add(i)
  return set

print foo([88, 88,89])

print foo([100, 100,101])

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Specialist.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 21:48:38 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:48:38 -0800
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<16471.26244.889193.809339@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.49.1079471195.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-0B9FC3.17134816032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<AAO5c.22495$8G2.22125@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4057BC86.BC3A897F@alcyone.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Here's my guess:
> 
> long i = 0;
> *(short*)&i = 1;
> 
> if (i == 1) { printf("It's whatever one Intel uses.\n"); }
> else { printf("It's the other one.\n"); }

You meant char, not short.

And none of the solutions so far acknowledge the fact that none of these
types have absolute sizes as defined in the Standard.  If I were
conducting the interview, I'd take points off if that weren't at least
acknowledged.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Love is when you wake up in the morning and have a big smile.
    -- Anggun


From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 30 05:52:58 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:52:58 -0500
Subject: Python installing on Debian
In-Reply-To: <c48prl$tak$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>	<mailman.28.1080524612.20120.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.03.29.07.54.52.345244@earthlink.net>
	<c48prl$tak$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c4bjho$4pb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
> Ryan Spencer wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:43:25 +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It's a very bad idea to install self-compiled applications to the same
>>>prefix as the ones from original packages. this can breake many things on
>>>your computer. what you have now is a semi-broke python installation, and
>>>a package that tries to install itself every time you run apt-get but
>>>fails.
>>>
>>>I think your best chance to "clean" things would be to uninstall every
>>>python2.3 package on your system (see what happenes when you run 'apt-get
>>>remove --purge python2.3'). but make sure you understand what you're
>>>doing (e.g. do you really want to purge your zope installaion? do you
>>>have important stuff there, do you know how to restore it?). then if
>>>there's still stuff in /usr/lib/python2.3 and /usr/local/lib/python2.3
>>>check that they don't belong to any package (with dpkg -S filename) and
>>>remove them. also check if you have a python binary in /usr/local/bin and
>>>delete it. then re-install all the python2.3 packages. this of-course
>>>will make you lose all your self-compiled modules, so you'll have to
>>>re-compile them. this is a long and messy job, but you got yourself into
>>>this position. just make sure you understand what you're doing before
>>>your doing it.
>>>
>>>in the future I would recommend using the source from unstable to build a
>>>package if you want a version newer then the one that exist in testing.
>>>also use 'stow' when you're compiling sources. this will let you
>>>uninstall self-compiled application easilly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks a lot,
>>>
>>>good-luck (you'll need it) :(
>>
>>It actually needn't be that messy. dpkg --purge'ing will only remove the
>>package in question, whereas using a program such as debfoster and pruning
>>the selected target package will remove all it's associate dependencies
>>entirely eradicating it from your system, maybe leaving behind empty
>>configuration folders in your home directory, but there's no fret for
>>that those won't be taking up barely any space and you can always remove
>>them later.
> 
> in my system 'apt-get remove --purge python2.3' wants to remove 401
> packages. that's what I meant messy. you have to check that you didn't
> change any system configuration file for any of the packages. and as a
> rule, it's a good idea to understand what's you're doing. I've seen too
> many times people following instructions and then discovering that nothing
> works without knowing how to restore...


It seems apt has gotten so popular that everyone has forgotten about dpkg, 
which apt is built upon.  :)  Yes, apt-get follows dependencies in that way, 
which is why apt was created, to handle dependencies automatically.  In this 
case however, it may not be necessary to remove everything to restore python. 
   It makes sense to try the least painful remedy first.  If it were me, I 
would first try rebuilding the python .deb package from my system with 
dpkg-repack as a backup, then using 'dpkg --force-all --purge python2.3' to 
delete just the python interpreter itself, not any of the packages that depend 
on it.  Clean any python directories/files left behind (there sometimes is in 
places like /etc and /usr/lib, etc), then reinstall python2.3 using the .deb 
you created with dpkg-repack.  If that fails, then try downloading a 
guaranteed virgin copy of the .deb package and repeating again.  If that fails 
too, then you're forced to start purging other python-related things to figure 
out whats causing the problem.  My point is that when apt doesn't do what you 
need it to do, you can always fall back on dpkg.

In this case the problem is likely to be the OP partially overwrote Debian's 
python with his own custom compiled one, because I have seen that "import 
site" failure happen when I did this myself some time ago.  I wasn't even 
installing the compiled version, I just built it and manually transferred the 
shared libs and executable to /usr, but that was enough to break some of the 
written-in-python library files.  Moral of the story: don't mix standard and 
custom-built packages.  If you want to try a custom built one, completely 
deinstall the standard one first.




From nick.carter at roke.co.uk  Tue Mar  2 06:09:00 2004
From: nick.carter at roke.co.uk (Nick Carter)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:09:00 -0000
Subject: Binaries for Swish-E and Python 2.3 for Windows
References: <mailman.15.1078215556.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hXZ0c.15$4h4.266@psinet-eu-nl>

Binaries for Swish-E and Python 2.3 for WindowsPieter,

Try here: http://lorrain.ca/foss/

Nick
  "Pieter Claerhout" <Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com> wrote in message news:mailman.15.1078215556.12614.python-list at python.org...
  Hi all, 

  does anyone has a precompiled version for Python 2.3 on Windows for the following library: 

  http://jibe.freeshell.org/bits/SwishE/ 

  I'm trying to access a Swish-E database from Python, but I don't have access to a compiler unfortunately. 

  Cheers, 



  pieter 

  Creo 
  pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 | pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com 

  IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm) 

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From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar  8 11:56:49 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:56:49 +0200
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
In-Reply-To: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <404CA5D1.6080706@zoran.com>

Hello Fernando,

> We've narrowed it down to the following.  Under ipython, here is what he gets
> with a popen() call:
> 
> ,---
> | Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25) 
> | Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> | 
> | IPython 0.5.0 -- An enhanced Interactive Python.
> | ?       -> Introduction to IPython's features.
> | @magic  -> Information about IPython's 'magic' @ functions.
> | help    -> Python's own help system.
> | object? -> Details about 'object'. ?object also works, ?? prints more.
> | 1% import os
> | 2% xmode Verbose
> | Exception reporting mode: Verbose
> | 3% pipe=os.popen('less','w')
> |      10 [main] python2.3 2896 sync_with_child: child 3032(0x6D4) died before
> initialization with status code 0x1
> |    9375 [main] python2.3 2896 sync_with_child: *** child state child loading
> dlls
> | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | OSError                                   Traceback (most recent call last)
> | 
> | /home/thorsten/<console> 
> | 
> | OSError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable
> 

I've installed IPython 0.5.0 with `python setup.py install'
then:
---
[18:46] $ipython
Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 22 2003, 11:56:28)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

IPython 0.5.0 -- An enhanced Interactive Python.
?       -> Introduction to IPython's features.
@magic  -> Information about IPython's 'magic' @ functions.
help    -> Python's own help system.
object? -> Details about 'object'. ?object also works, ?? prints more.

In [1]: import os

In [2]: xmode verbose
Exception reporting mode: Verbose

In [3]:
---

Maybe upgrade your cygwin? My dll version is 1.5.7-1
(run `cygcheck -s | egrep "^cygwin"' to find your version)

HTH.
Miki


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Mar 14 02:22:41 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:22:41 +0200
Subject: List append help
In-Reply-To: <105811aq55rah53@corp.supernews.com>
References: <105811aq55rah53@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40540841.8070802@zoran.com>

Hello Bill,

> Could someone please tell me why the "hireCrew"
> method in the following code leaves me with a list that contains "None"?
 > ...
 >         self.myCrew = self.myCrew.append(argHire)
The return value of list.append is None. However it does add the item to 
the list. Try:
self.myCrew.append(argHire)

On a side note, I find this `arg' prefix for an argument irritating :-)

HTH.
Miki


From python at rcn.com  Tue Mar 23 03:36:05 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 00:36:05 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <mailman.172.1079731437.742.python-list@python.org>
	<87oeqpaqih.fsf@Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>
	<5d83790c.0403221047.2db9a9a1@posting.google.com>
	<87k71cbpjd.fsf@Ronaldann.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403230036.3e9b08dc@posting.google.com>

[Holger Duerer]
>     >> I don't know what getrandbits does exactly.  But if it uses the
>     >> normal PRNG code, doesn't that mean that your plaintext still
>     >> has only 32 bits of entropy?  I.e. if you want to do an
>     >> inversion lookup table, you would only have to calculate the
>     >> 2^32 possible outcomes of this call and not all 2^128
>     >> theoretically possible ones?
>
>     Raymond> genrandbits() pulls as many bits as requested out of the
>     Raymond> underlying generator.  The Mersenne Twister carries 624
>     Raymond> words of internal state (about 20000 bits) so it is
>     Raymond> capable of supplying all the bits needed for this
>     Raymond> application.
>
>     Raymond> So, yes, the plaintext will span the 2^128 possibilities.

[Holger Duerer]
> Well, I am aware that the state is larger.  But my understanding from
> a quick glance at the code was that you seed it with only an unsigned
> long (automatically done with time(NULL) for you if you don't provide
> a seed -- even worse at it reduces the search space dramatically).

The seed(x) method accepts longs and can have an arbitrary number of
bits.  If
using this proposed generator cryptographically, the seed should be
viewed as a key and all the usual precautions should be taken
(secrecy, long length, and a pure random source). So, what ever you
do, don't seed it with time!


Raymond


From merkosh at hadiko.de  Sun Mar 21 10:11:06 2004
From: merkosh at hadiko.de (Uwe Mayer)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:11:06 +0100
Subject: call up, notify down
Message-ID: <c3kbaa$kra$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

someone told me this on how layered-architectures work. It took me some time
to read-up to it, but now I think its rather the other way around:

The lower layers provide functionality to upper layers. Therefore it should
be: call down, notify up.
Qt does it the same way, as I understood it: You call the public methods of
underlying objects and can install SIGNALs to be notified (notify up).

This flips if I misunderstood the meaning of up and down, but to me "down"
means the more fundamental components. Going up from a root-node.

Ciao
Uwe


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 18:44:45 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:44:45 -0800
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 and data_files
In-Reply-To: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net>
References: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net>
Message-ID: <c3g0r4$hga$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Try the following...

ex_name = 'myprogram.exe'

if sys.path[0][-len(ex_name):] == ex_name:
     path = os.path.split(sys.path[0])
else:
     path = os.path.split(__file__)

I don't know if the above works correctly when the script is not a part 
of an executable, but is imported with zipimport.

  - Josiah


From aisomurs at paju.oulu.fi  Fri Mar 12 16:19:44 2004
From: aisomurs at paju.oulu.fi (Antti Isomursu)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 13:19:44 -0800
Subject: Newbie question, Help needed!
Message-ID: <b5f9523.0403121319.6f1ea7e4@posting.google.com>

Ok, this is my problem.
I have a list, with several items.
I can move forward in that list using iterator (for example, iter(x)
 and then, it.next()...)

But how can I move backwards?


From roy at panix.com  Fri Mar 12 08:48:37 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:48:37 -0500
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-03189A.08483712032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list at python.org>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> What version of python-mode.el are you using?  I use the latest version from
> CVS (4.51). 

I just downloaded python-mode.el a couple of days ago from 
www.python.org and got version 4.6, for use with GNU Emacs 21.2.1 on my 
Mac OSX box.

> "def" is a purplish color (as are all keywords).  The function
> name is a reddish color.  Strings are green.  Comments are blue. 

I'm getting keywords in teal (sort of a light blue), function names in 
dark blue, strings in green, and comments in red.  Everything else in 
black.


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar  4 03:29:04 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:29:04 +0100
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
	<c268rn$1q8l0e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<4046e6d6$0$4677$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4046e8c1$0$4666$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"GrelEns" <grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr> a ?crit dans le message de news:
4046e6d6$0$4677$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
>
> btw please give your opinion on this one :
>
> def build(l, n):
>  result = []
>  if n == 1:
>   for e in l:
>    result.append([e])
>  else:
>   subSet = build(l, n - 1)
>   for n_uples in subSet:
>    iLast = l.index(n_uples[-1])
>    if iLast < len(l) - 1:
>     for e in l[iLast + 1:]:
>      tmp = n_uples + [e]
>      result.append(tmp)
>  return result
>
> def allSets(l):
>  """from [1,2,3] will build [[1], [2], [3], [1, 2], [1, 3], [2, 3], [1, 2,
> 3]]"""
>  result = []
>  for i in range(1, len(l)):
>   result += build(l, i)
>  result.append(l)
>  return result

i'm not happy with this code, must be an other shorter alternative, have you
any siggestions on how to build these sets  [[1], [2], [3], [1, 2], [1, 3],
[2, 3], [1, 2, 3]] from [1,2,3] ?

best




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 13:57:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:57:58 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <jf7b60lucu40v49epdbeca3kvp65d25j2d@4ax.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<mailman.470.1080395929.742.python-list@python.org>
	<jf7b60lucu40v49epdbeca3kvp65d25j2d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16485.52918.622130.779482@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> Thanks to Microsoft, attachments frequently don't pass through mail
    >> servers these days.  I know I filter all attachments out of a couple
    >> small mailing lists I manage.

    David> I've never had this problem.  Is this something MS exchange does?

No.  It's just that with so many virii running around attached to email that
often the simplest thing to do is to strip delete all attachments passing
through mailing list manager software.

Skip



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 23 09:34:06 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:34:06 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com><mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3phsp$bgr$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde at posting.google.com...

> def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Vector,Scalar):
[et cetara]

This PEP proposes somewhat implicit declarative syntax in the function
heading as a substitute (but not replacement) for an explicit procedural
call after the function call.  This is similar to the doc string rule, and
just as 'unnecessary'.  However, if instead of writing

def f():
  'f: a function to illustrate a point'
  pass

we had to write

def f():
  pass

f.__doc__ = 'f: a function to illustrate a point'

(as we now can), I suspect there would be fewer doc strings written.  Even
if not, they would be less useful to readers.  I see the point of the PEP
at putting information about a function at the top so readers can more easy
see it before reading the body, if indeed they need to read the
implementation detail.  So I suspect the result of this PEP would be more
functional transformations than at present.  It certainly emphasizes the
point that Python functions are first-class objects which can be
manipulated and wrapped just like other objects.

I consider this a positive, but have no strong opinion on '(args) [deco]'
versus 'as deco'.

Terry J. Reedy






From anand at easi.soft.net  Tue Mar 16 06:35:08 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:05:08 +0530
Subject: how import works
Message-ID: <4056E66C.1000409@easi.soft.net>

Hi all,

Currently i have embedded python and extended my application for python.
While invoking python intrepter I call following function so that all my 
exposed APIs are available for python scripting.
Py_InitModule("myModule", MyModuleMethods);

This is fine so far.

But i have a requirement that end user can add his own extension modules,
so in that case I don't want to change code to add some more intializations
Py_InitModule("myModule", MyModuleMethods);
Py_InitModule("myNewModule", MyNewModuleMethods);

import myNewMoudle should call above function.
Is there a way that i can do it, I believe disutil can do some thing, 
but not sure of how it works.

The solution should be compatible on all UNIX and Windows machines.
Can some one please help me on this subject & probably some link to 
documentation.

Thanks in advance.

Anand





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 12 13:24:21 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:24:21 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid> <xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
	<mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<hgr3501a1qu612fvumq5ccd0vrocdoc4pf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <105405ogq0t2s61@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:hgr3501a1qu612fvumq5ccd0vrocdoc4pf at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:20:14 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Given Python's current object model it would be an interesting challenge
to
> >write a "super reload" which could identify all the objects created as a
> >side effect of importing a module and for those with multiple references,
> >locate those other references by traversing the known object spaces, then
> >perform the import and finally rebind the references found in the first
> >step.  I thought I saw something like this posted in a previous thread on
> >this subject.
>
> I'm not familiar with the internals of Python, but I was assuming that
> all objects could be easily associated with the module which created
> them.  If not, maybe what we need is the ability to put a selected
> module in "debug" mode and keep a list of all objects created by that
> module and all references to those objects.  That would add a little
> overhead, but avoid the difficulties of searching all object spaces
> with every reload.

That's actually the wrong end of the problem. Even if you
could associate all the objects with the module that created
them, you would still have to find all the references to those
modules. That's the harder of the two tasks.

It's actually relatively easy to find the objects that would have
to be replaced: it's all of the objects that are bound at the module
level in the module you're replacing. Since CPython uses memory
addresses as IDs, it's trivially easy to stick them in a dictionary and
compare them while scanning all the places they could possibly be
bound.

John Roth
>
> -- Dave
>




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 11:36:41 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:36:41 +0100
Subject: how fast is object-oriented Python code?
References: <3064b51d.0403040759.452953ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c27lup$1kn$02$1@news.t-online.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

> I know that object-oriented numerical code in C++ can be much slower
> than the procedural C or Fortran equivalent, unless one is careful. To
> what extent is this true with OO and non-OO Python?

$ timeit.py -s"def x(): pass" "x()"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.437 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"class X:" -s"    def x(self): pass" -s"x=X()" "x.x()"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.694 usec per loop

The above bogus example would suggest an extra cost of 60 percent. 
Let's modify it a little:

$ timeit.py -s"class X:" -s"    def x(self): pass" -s"x=X().x" "x()"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.446 usec per loop

With a tiny change almost all of the overhead goes away. I think with a
grain of salt the same is true on a larger scale. The speed of an
application is determined by the quality of its design, not by the
programming paradigm employed.

Peter



From wmgill at gcgroup.net  Thu Mar  4 11:14:23 2004
From: wmgill at gcgroup.net (William D. Gill)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:14:23 -0500
Subject: python classes 
Message-ID: <f2335$40475626$42a655ea$12158@msgid.meganewsservers.com>

I'm new to python and am probably trying too many new things at once, but
here goes.

I am working with a (MySQL) database and am trying to make a html /python
interface for editing records.
Data is broken up into several tables, and related by customer number.  For
example one table contains basic information about the customer, one table
phone numbers (one record for published number, one for cell phone, etc,
all customers will have at least one record here).

I want to use python classes in my code so I have a couple of  questions
about python classes:

1) can a class __init__ have multiple "signatures like in C++  i.e.
MyClass( int, string), . MyClass(int) ?
2) can a class attribute be an instance of another class or is multiple
inheritance the proper answer?
3) Can I make instantiation fail if an invalid customer number is use, and
wrap the "a=MyClass(cusid=999) in an exception?

Thanks in advance,

Bill





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar 16 10:21:30 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:21:30 -0500
Subject: embedding opengl in wxpython window [Re: Advice needed: large
 OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular]
In-Reply-To: <Ib2dnWvFavSMisrdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Ib2dnWvFavSMisrdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <40571B7A.8080107@rogers.com>

DH wrote:
...

> The problem I have though is - can you have an opengl canvas in the 
> same window with other wxpython controls.  I've done this in java, 
> basic and C, but the wxpython demo only showed opengl animations 
> running in their own window.  This is my problem with vpython and sdl 
> too.  I want something that can be embedded in a tk/wx/qt/gtk window 
> with other controls, even other opengl canvases.  At the C level, it's 
> just a matter of clipping the drawing and switching the current 
> drawing context.

This works fine. See the browser sub-package of OpenGLContext for a 
demo.  See also much simpler demo in 
OpenGLContext/tests/wx_with_controls.py, which just puts a button and a 
wxPython Context (derived from wxGLCanvas) on a window and uses the 
button to start/stop the animation.  PyOpenGL and wxPython are both just 
thin wrappers around their respective C/C++ libraries, so most of the 
functionality in the lower levels is available.

> >>   Disadvantages: The OpenGL install still crashed under Windows. A
> >>   widget set that not many people use? Also requires the most amount
> >>   of code rewrite, although if it's the best option it isn't a
> >>   problem.
>
> Yeah, it doesn't work on Windows for me either with python 2.3.  It 
> used to work with python 2.2.  Now it complains about not finding glut.

If you encounter a bug like this, please submit a bug-report to the 
project so that it can be fixed.  As a quick check though, you did 
install the GLUT binary package in your system32 directory, right?  
PyOpenGL doesn't include the GLUT library itself, only a binding for it.

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 14:59:46 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:59:46 -0700
Subject: tkinter entry/text widget
References: <d1b33313.0403151108.5fa31ffb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405609D7.F674BE9E@pobox.com>

Tk Text widgets do not support indexes in the form of single integers,
since their internal representation is NOT a contiguous block of memory
(which would be horribly inefficient for insertions at the top of a
large document).  Instead, you must use indexes of the form
"line.column", where line starts at 1, and column starts at 0.  To get
the entire text, you'd use: .get("1.0", END) .  Other allowed forms of
indexes are given in the documentation.
	Jason Harper


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 11:56:29 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:56:29 GMT
Subject: Minor observation on the programming enterprise (was: Python
	for large projects)
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade@posting.google.com>
	<106e0498vbqa611@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6dv88.feg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <106e0498vbqa611 at corp.supernews.com>, Cameron Laird wrote:
 Remarkable fact that I see as turning up all over:  we work with
> grep(1).  There are visual programming and language-savvy editors
> and IDEs and refactoring plugins and all sorts of other tools, 
> and we find our variables with text searches.  'Know how to make
> a C programmer mad?  Name a global variable 'i'.  'Know how to
> make him happy?  Change the name to 'ii'.  Both Lisp's inventor
> and I keep our human address collection in a plaintext file.

My address collection was scattered all over various databases and
phones, and I lost the phone with the most recent one.  I spent a good
hour searching for an important number, and realized that the one
database I might still have access to was for a PDA I no longer owned,
with a desktop app that I could no longer run, in a Windows partition
that I couldn't boot to at the time.

I could see the actual data, but knowing the Windows world I was almost
positive it'd be some binary database, and I'd be out of luck.

Nope, XML.  Almost as good as plain text for grepping.  I've never been
so relieved.

Joe


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Mar 12 08:22:41 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:22:41 +0100
Subject: Video module?
References: <mailman.265.1079003910.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2r0et$7n0$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <c2secd$ab7$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Cool !




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 01:34:26 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:34:26 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>   [-5.dirname.dirname.dirname]filename

The above is relatively clear, though the brackets kind of destroy the 
clarity.  For magical syntax, it isn't bad.  I prefer the standard 
semantics already offered:
from MODULE import NAMES as RENAME searching HOW
import NAMES as RENAME from MODULE searching HOW

Or for backwards compatibility:
from HOW.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
import HOW.MODULE.NAMES as RENAME


Where HOW is of the form:
-<INTEGER>[.PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]
[PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]

With the search stepping up <integer> path levels, then traversing down 
through the listed packages, not stepping up any path levels when the 
-integer is not given, and raising a SyntaxError for -0 imports.  For 
example:

for HOW:
-1.sibling_package
maps to ../sibling_package/MODULE.(py|pyc|pyo|pyd|so|dll)

-2.uncle_package.cousin_package
maps to ../../uncle_package/cousin_package/MODULE.(ext)

-0.[other stuff]
should raise a SyntaxError

child_package.grandchild_package.great_grandchild_module
maps to ./child_package/grandchild_package/great_grandchild_module.(ext)


I think such behavior is clear enough magical syntax, what do others think?

  - Josiah


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 17:45:59 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:45:59 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <b8n9c.77512$8G2.70785@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403271039.5a351884@posting.google.com>
	<b8n9c.77512$8G2.70785@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c450d6$7qe$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> 
> If the contest you're submitting your program to has hard byte limit,
> and you need large indents to properly document your code.  (That is
> one thing.)
> 

Usually contests of the sort offer the opportunity to submit a "pretty" 
and a "small" version of your code.  One that contains proper spacing, 
another that contains minimal spacing.  Show me a contest that doesn't 
allow it, and I'll show you a contest that isn't worth entering.

  - Josiah


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar  9 12:41:35 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 12:41:35 -0500
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <2004030816344216807%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <c2kvkf$1v4$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <2004030816344216807%cs1spw at bathacuk>,
Simon Willison  <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>I'm looking into building a simple one-way (announce only) mailing list 
>system. The system will bulk-send messages to lists of around 5,000 email 
>addresses. What's the most efficient way of delivering this kind of email 
>volume from a Python script? The script will be running on a dedicated 
>server with full access to sendmail etc.

Don't use sendmail directly.  Just send via SMTP and let the server
handle the batching.  You might consider using a better MTA (postfix or
Exim) unless you've got an admin you *really* likes sendmail.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From haim at babysnakes.org  Mon Mar 22 12:27:04 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:27:04 +0200
Subject: py2exe icon resource on win98
References: <c3n561$m21$1@sea.gmane.org> <ekrkddav.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <c3n7l9$tno$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> Haim Ashkenazi <haim at babysnakes.org> writes:
> 
>> Hi
>>
>> I'm trying to build a binary with py2exe. I've used the method suggested
>> in the py2exe wiki about adding icon resources to apps. it build ok on
>> win2k, but when I try to build the same on win98 I get this error:
>>
>> copying C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\run.exe -> C:\My
>> Documents\NS_Backup\dist\NS_Backup.exe
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "Setup.py", line 13, in ?
>>     windows = [
>>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\core.py", line 149, in setup
>>     dist.run_commands()
>>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 907, in run_commands
>>     self.run_command(cmd)
>>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 927, in run_command
>>     cmd_obj.run()
>>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 197, in
>>   run
>>     self.create_binaries(py_files, extensions, dlls)
>>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 391, in
>> create_binaries
>>     arcname, target.script)
>>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 577, in
>> build_executable
>>     add_icon(unicode(exe_path), unicode(ico_filename), ico_id)
>> RuntimeError: MapExistingFile: The handle is invalid
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> I've attached my "setup.py".
>>
>> anyone has any ideas?
> 
> I assume you have unicows.dll installed (this is required on win98), as
> described in the py2exe webpage.
of course :)

> 
> The build process on win98 is not tested very good, maybe I overlooked
> something.  Can you build your exe when you comment out all the icon
> resources?
yes. without a problem. it's win98 first edition without any updates
(internet explorer 4). 


> 
> Thomas
> 
> 

thanx
--
Haim




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Mar 23 02:52:11 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 23:52:11 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I will reiterate my comment from before:  PEP 318 is about more than just
> static and class methods.  Here are a few examples from the python-dev
> discussion.
> 
>   1.  From Fred Drake:
> 
>     As an (admittedly trivial) example, I'd be quite happy for:
> 
>         class Color [valuemap]:
>             red = rgb(255, 0, 0)
>             blue  = rgb(0, 255, 0)
>             green = rgb(0, 0, 255)
> 
>     to cause the name Color to be bound to a non-callable object.  Why must
>     the decorators be required to return callables?  It will not make sense
>     in all circumstances when a decorator is being used.

Ok.
 
>   2.  From Anders Munch:
> 
>     Given that the decorator expression can be an arbitrary Python
>     expression, it _will_ be used as such. For example:
> 
>     def foo(arg1, arg2) as release(
>             version="1.0",
>             author="me",
>             status="Well I wrote it so it works, m'kay?",
>             warning="You might want to use the Foo class instead"):

Nice,
 
>   3.  From Shane Hathaway:
> 
>     Ooh, what about this:
> 
>          def singleton(klass):
>              return klass()
> 
>          class MyThing [singleton]:
>              ...
> 
>     That would be splendid IMHO.

This one I don't like (not the syntax, the implementation).
I want my singleton to be a class I can derive from.
This can be done by using a metaclass as decorator
(I posted an example months ago).
 
> There are plenty of other examples.  Browse the archives.
> 
> think-outside-the-bun-(tm)-ly, y'rs,
> 
> Skip
And don't forget Ville Vanio's idea of using the new syntax to
implement multimethods:

def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Matrix,Matrix):
    ...

def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Matrix,Vector):
   ...

def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Matrix,Scalar):
  ...

def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Vector,Vector):
  ...

def __mul__(self,other) as multimethod(Vector,Scalar):
  ...

etc.

Way cool, actually :)


   Michele Simionato


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 09:43:59 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:43:59 -0500
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <zOSdnU4CqecyZsPdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

John Burton wrote:

> One of the reasons I like python so much is that the standard 
> installation comes with a whole lot of libraries to do lots of useful 
> things but there seem to be a few things missing from the standard 
> library which would be useful in many projects:
> 
> Encryption - AES and 3DES. Possibly RSA and Certificate processing.
> DNS - Something better than gethostbyaddr for looking up other record 
> types.
> Database - Something suitable for small projects / prototypes like 
> pysqlite or something in pure python even.
> SSL/TLS - Some useful support...
> 
> A lot of projects seem to need some of those. It's easy enough to 
> install extras to do those thing but they are all things where it would 
> be nice to have something in the standard library that you could rely on 
> being there.
> 
> Is there any reason why those things are not already in the standard 
> library?

Yes, they aren't mature enough to be in there yet (because the work
is not complete, probably because not enough people are helping).

That's at least a partial answer.  Were I actually one who helped
with the core work on these things myself, I would doubtless add
"contributions are welcome!"  :-)

-Peter


From james.g.tanner at boeing.com  Wed Mar 10 15:29:10 2004
From: james.g.tanner at boeing.com (Jim Tanner)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:29:10 GMT
Subject: Python 2.3.2 spawn problem
Message-ID: <HuDnKL.HAz@news.boeing.com>

I am trying to start the 2.3.3 IDL and getting an error.  I think I might
have a dll conflict, but the 2.2.3 IDL works fine.  The 2.3.3 IDL used to
work just fine.

The following are the Traceback error messages:

bash-2.05b$ python.exe Lib/idlelib/idle.pyw
C:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe: *** unable to remap
C:\cygwin\bin\cygssl-0.9.7.dll
to same address as parent(0x720000) != 0x730000
    407 [main] python 2496 sync_with_child: child 3112(0x180) died before
initia
lization with status code 0x1
    903 [main] python 2496 sync_with_child: *** child state child loading
dlls
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Lib/idlelib/idle.pyw", line 4, in ?
    main()
  File "/cygdrive/c/Python23/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 1282, in main
    flist.pyshell = PyShell(flist)
  File "/cygdrive/c/Python23/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 764, in __init__
    self.interp.start_subprocess()
  File "/cygdrive/c/Python23/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 355, in
start_subproc
ess
    self.spawn_subprocess()
  File "/cygdrive/c/Python23/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 321, in
spawn_subproc
ess
    self.rpcpid = os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, sys.executable, args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/os.py", line 521, in spawnv
    return _spawnvef(mode, file, args, None, execv)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/os.py", line 489, in _spawnvef
    pid = fork()
OSError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable

Thanks for your assistance,
Jim Tanner




From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Mar  8 20:06:44 2004
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:06:44 -0600
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <104q5jpg86q2udf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2004030819064420092%cs1spw@bathacuk>

On 2004-03-08 18:57:29 -0600, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) said:

> In article <2004030818081575249%cs1spw at bathacuk>,
> Simon Willison  <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
> >On 2004-03-08 16:42:57 -0600, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> said:
> >>     Install Mailman and make the list postable only by you.  :P
> >
> >We've already looked at mailman and a number of other packages. None of 
>them fit our requirements as we need to be able to tie the list 
>administration in to our existing user authentication / admin control 
>panel, plus we want to tie the email lists to our membership databases. 
>We've got most of the other infrastructure already, we just need an 
>efficient way of sending out bulk emails to a large list of addresses.
> 			.
> Give us a notion of scope.  Does "large list" mean to you a thousand?
> Hundred thousand?  Ten million?  How often are you sending out e-mail?

Our largest list at the moment is 4,000 addresses. The business we are in 
(local online newspaper) means we are very unlikely to ever have more than 
10,000. The answer certainly relates to sendmail, but I'm interested in any 
experience other people may have with this kind of task. At the moment I'm 
looking at using smtplib and just cycling through calling smtp.send() once 
for every address but I'm not confident that that this is a particularly 
efficient method. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it.

Cheers,

Simon


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Mar 30 00:06:15 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:06:15 -0500
Subject: Tkfont buggy for two Tk() top level windows
In-Reply-To: <20040330045726.GB1313@performancedrivers.com>
References: <20040330045726.GB1313@performancedrivers.com>
Message-ID: <20040330050615.GC1313@performancedrivers.com>

[top post]

Awwww, screw me.
TopLevel() does what I want.

After searching groups.goole and skimming Programming Python
I posted.  And its right there in the docs (and TopLevel is
in the index of PP).

Any Tkinter folks that are listening, consider printing
a warning to stdout when Tk() is called twice or preferably
raising an exception instead of limping along.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 11:57:26PM -0500, Jack Diederich wrote:
> I'm calling Tk() twice to create two top level windows,
> which works fine in every respect except fonts.
> Assigning a Tkfont to widgets in the first Tk() window I create works
> fine, the font looks good as it should.  But if I start a another
> window by calling Tk() again the second window will always use some
> awful default font.  Swapping the two lines that call Tk() will
> change which one actually uses the font and which doesn't.
> 
> The code looks like:
>   win_one = Tk()
>   win_two = Tk()
>   myfont = tkFont.Font(family="Courier", size=12)
>   
>   Entry(win_one, font=myfont).pack(fill='both',expand=1)
>   Entry(win_two, font=myfont).pack(fill='both',expand=1)
> 
> Any text on the first window obeys the font, the second
> one will always use some system default.  switching the two lines
> that call Tk() reverses which window goes font happy.
> 
> If calling Tk() twice has undefined behavior I would rather it
> raise a useful exception instead of continuing partially gimpy.
> 
> Debian testing, python 2.3.3, tk 8.2.3-5
> This has been the behavior for 6-12 months (as long as I've been using
> Tk).  Until now I just assumed I had missed a call, after checking it
> out it seems to be a Tk thing.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> -jackdied
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From frnknstn at iafrica.com  Sat Mar 27 08:10:11 2004
From: frnknstn at iafrica.com (Peter Finlayson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:10:11 +0200
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <_qN8c.42856$wj2.30269@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <7xu10ddxie.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <40659953.3349.9FD2A8@localhost>

I have been following this thread with great interest. I am very new to Python, 
and this group (struggling to keep up with the heavy traffic.)

Some of the stuff here went over my head, as I am not a gifted mathematician, 
but it did get me thinking. I find random number generators facinating, and I 
have a perfectionist streak in me that really dislikes several of the flawed 
generators used frequently.

Still, if you are aiming for totally nondeterminant random numbers, there are 
better ways to do it than with SHA with its inevitable collisions. If we assume 
that every bit from the MT generator is roughly as 'random' as all the others, 
why not use the oldest cryptographic trick in the book: One-time-pads?

Python is largely designed as a scripting language, so why not just pull a 
random file off the system and (perhaps after removing the file's header) use 
the raw data to offset the getrandbits() data?

Wait, I suppose that may not be random enough. There are only a finite number 
of files on your system, and I suppose that for $250 000 the poker players 
could have hacked into the system and downloaded the complete contents of all 
the memory.

Well, Python is a scripting language, so why not just use httplib to download 
some random file off the internet, and use that? Every morning, just get the 
latest files of your favorite site, and use them to offset the getrandbits() 
data. I can see it now, porn-powered cryptographic pseudo-random number 
generators!

Wait, there is only a finite amount of porn in the world. I know, why not just 
use the latests comments posted on Slashdot? That is an *inexhaustable* supply 
of rubbish. Nobody would sift through all that, not ever for a MILLION dollars.

:)

Peter Finlayson



From see_below at hazen.net  Fri Mar 19 06:13:02 2004
From: see_below at hazen.net (John Hazen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:13:02 -0800
Subject: services
In-Reply-To: <cft6c.18768$qK1.668556@weber.videotron.net>
References: <cft6c.18768$qK1.668556@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <20040319111302.GC31626@gate2.hazen.net>

* Laurent Vincelette <lvincelette at videotron.ca> [2004-03-18 19:53]:
> I have a python script (file start with #!/usr/bin/python) that use 
> xmlrpclib to lessen and respond on port:8000. The problem is when I 
> close the shell (bash in remote with putty) the script stop to work. I 
> try to start it in backgroud with & but it dosent work. Finally I copy 
> and I try to modify the /etc/init.d/crond to start the script in 
> services (with start-stop-demon but I have the same problem... When I 
> close putty the script stop.
> 
> Someone have a idea?

try:

% nohup file.py &

It redirects the output (and stderr) to ./nohup.out, and prevents the
HUP signal from being sent to the process when you log out.

And if you want the service to run at startup, I'd probably create a
separate startup script (if it's running as a permament service, I don't
think cron has anything to do with it) which launches it and redirects
the output.

-John

<my first name> at hazen.net



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 12:51:17 2004
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:51:17 -0000
Subject: Nice way of getting items from two lists
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01201055@intrepid>

> From: C GIllespie [mailto:csgcsg39 at hotmail.com]
> 
> I have two equal size lists - list1, list2. Basically, each 
> item in list 1
> has a partner in list2. I was wanting to do something like
> So if:
> list1=['x','y','z']
> list2=[1,2,3]
> 
> then if I did this 'for loop'
> for name, value in list1,list2:
>     print name, value
> 
> I would get
> x,1
> y,2
> z,3

for name, value in zip(list1, list2):
    print name, value

Cheers,
Simon B.
simon at brunningonline.net
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ 
--LongSig




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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar  2 10:23:38 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:23:38 -0600
Subject: csv bugs
In-Reply-To: <slrnc48oph.8ob.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrnc48oph.8ob.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <16452.42746.753582.600239@montanaro.dyndns.org>


(A better place for this discussion would probably be csv at mail.mojam.com.
I'm adding it to the cc list.)

    Magnus> It seems that when a line termination is escaped (using the
    Magnus> current escape character), csv.reader treats it as a line
    Magnus> continuation, which is well an good -- but it doesn't discard
    Magnus> the escape character; instead, it escapes it implicitly. This
    Magnus> seems like a bug to me. E.g.

    Magnus>   foo:bar:baz\
    Magnus>   frozz:bozz

    Magnus> with separator ':' and escape character '\\' is parsed into

    Magnus>   ['foo', 'bar', 'baz\\\nfrozz', 'bozz']

    Magnus> In my opinion, it *ought* to be parsed into

    Magnus>   ['foo', 'bar', 'baz\nfrozz', 'bozz']

    Magnus> As far as I know, this is the UNIX convention, as used in (e.g.)
    Magnus> /etc/passwd.

That may be, however development of the csv module's parser was driven by
how Microsoft Excel behaves.  The assumption was (rightly I think) that
Excel reads or writes more CSV files than anything else.  I don't believe it
does anything with backslashes.

    Magnus> Am I off target here? If the current behaviour is desirable
    Magnus> (although I can't see why it should be) then at least I think
    Magnus> there should be a way of implementing "normal" line
    Magnus> continuations (as in my example), which is the standard UNIX
    Magnus> behavior, and the behavior of Python source, for that
    Magnus> matter. Otherwise, csv can't be used to parse (e.g.)
    Magnus> /etc/passwd...

You're welcome to submit a patch.  I don't have time for it.

    Magnus> And another thing: Perhaps a 'passwd' dialect could be added
    Magnus> alongside 'excel'? Something like:

    Magnus> class passwd(Dialect):
    Magnus>     delimiter = ':'
    Magnus>     doublequote = False
    Magnus>     escapechar = '\\'
    Magnus>     lineterminator = '\n'
    Magnus>     quotechar = '?'
    Magnus>     quoting = QUOTE_NONE
    Magnus>     skipinitialspace = False
    Magnus> register_dialect("passwd", passwd)

I'll take a look at that.

    Magnus> For some reason you *have* to supply a quotechar, even if you
    Magnus> set QUOTE_NONE... I guess that's a bug too, in my book.

Maybe.  Maybe just a feature.

    Magnus> If there are no objections, I might submit some of this as a bug
    Magnus> report or two (or even a patch).

Please do.

Skip



From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 18 14:34:28 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:34:28 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
References: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
	<c3cncg$gar$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<kum6c.29690$wg.18274@okepread01>
Message-ID: <1xnqx83f.fsf@python.net>

thehaas at binary.net writes:

> "Martin v. L??wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> thehaas at binary.net wrote:
>> > Obviously, 'Gr????'!='Gr\xfc\xdf' .  
>
>> It is not at all obvious that they are different. In fact, they
>> are the same, assuming the second string is encoding in Latin-1.
>
>> > Any ideas on how I can get the correct value?
>
>> Pray tell: what is the correct value?
>
> The correct value is 'Gr????', or at least have it equal to that.
>
> Maybe I should back up -- I'm interfacing into a Windows API.  In that
> API, I see 'Gr????' as:
>   >>> plist[-1].Reference
>   u'Gr\xfc\xdf'
>
> My value in goodProcList is:
>   >>> goodProcRef[18]
>   'Gr\xfc\xdf'

Try this:

>>> "Gr\xfc\xdf".decode("latin-1")
u'Gr\xfc\xdf'
>>>

Thomas




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar 22 15:52:44 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:52:44 -0000
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<7x8yhsj3bm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405f148a$0$10522$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<mailman.239.1079974422.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105ukgstn1tb867@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.239.1079974422.742.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    Peter> Paul Rubin wrote:
>    >> Python advertises a "batteries included" approach to the library
>    >> which means it's supposed to include most of the stuff that users
>    >> need, instead of making them download the stuff from random places.
>
>    Peter> The 'batteries included' stuff is more a distribution / packaging
>    Peter> issue than the standard library. At least coming from Tcl where
>    Peter> we have a 'batteries included' distribution including all sorts
>    Peter> of nice things.  However this does not mean that they are part of
>    Peter> the standard library.
>
>See:
>
>    http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/12.html
>
>and search for "Frank Stajano".  My guess would be that Frank's paper got
>the ball rolling for the "batteries included" concept in Tcl.
>
>Skip
>

I confirm that.  That's verifiably how it happened.

I also don't see that as contradicting what Peter wrote.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Mar 26 19:47:46 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:47:46 -0800
Subject: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. -
 BayesianFilter detected spam
In-Reply-To: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20E01@pippin.int.etrials.com>
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20E01@pippin.int.etrials.com>
Message-ID: <4064CF32.1080900@Acm.Org>

Ian Sparks wrote:

> You might find my weird little bits module helpful to take your floating
> point values in python apart in order to send them around.
> 
>      http://members.dsl-only.net/~daniels/bits.html
> <<
> 
> Could you demonstrate this?
No, this is more for the other direction.

from bits import msb, extract

def asIBM(v):
     """Only works for positive numbers, doesn't round"""
     assert v >= 0
     if 0 == v:
         return 8 * '\0'
     top = msb(v)
     expon = top // 4 + 1
     data = [chr(extract(v, n-8, n)) for n in
             range(expon*4, expon*4 - 7*8, -8)]
     data.insert(0, chr((expon + 64) & 127))
     return ''.join(data)

I haven't really tested the above, so you'd really better
check it carefully against some known values:

    asIBM(10.0625) or whatever else you know.

or whatever you know equivalents for.


-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Tue Mar 30 12:18:16 2004
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:18:16 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20040330143520.31dccb5e.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<20040330143520.31dccb5e.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>
Message-ID: <200403300918.16128.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Tuesday 30 March 2004 05:35 am, Hugh Macdonald wrote:
>
> > > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> >
> > Is this Linux only ?
> > (pardon my terrible ignorance...)
>
> Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...

No!  GTK is most definitely cross platform.  I use it on both Windows
and Linux with great success.  And it's very consistent in the sense
that my GUI looks identical on both platforms.  I have almost no need
for any platform dependent code in my GUI layout.  (Unlike Tkinter and
wxPython where I remember having to tweek fonts and other things on a
platform by platform basis.)

Here's several pointers:
  http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq21.012.htp
  http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/

Gary Herron





From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 21:18:31 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:18:31 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
In-Reply-To: <PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEOAJLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Michael A. Covington]
> On the trail of figuring out why IDLE won't launch, look at this:
>
> Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import Tkinter
> >>> Tkinter._test()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 3640, in _test
>     root = Tk()
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
>     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
> _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
> directories:
>     {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.4
> C:/Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library
> This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> >>>
>
> Here \WN16 is where *another* TCL/TK application *used* to reside.
> And the TCL stuff definitely *does* exist under
> C:\Python23\tcl\tcl8.4 (not lib\tcl8.4).
>
> By default does Python 2.3.3 install itself incorrectly???!!

No, it means Python is a good citizen but WN16 was a criminal <wink>.

Installing Python won't interfere with any other Tcl/Tk-using app on your
system, because Python is polite and considerate.

WN16 probably set an environment variable, or more than one, forcing every
Tcl/Tk on the box to use the old version WN16 installed.  That's anti-social
of it, but not Python's doing.  Do "set | sort" from a DOS box, and look for
envars with names starting with TCL or TK.  I'm betting you'll find at least
one, pointing to a directory under C:\WIN16.  If you do, get rid of it, and
then Tkinter should work fine.




From ken at perfect-image.com  Thu Mar 25 22:38:00 2004
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:38:00 -0700
Subject: import a modified module
In-Reply-To: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
References: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>
Message-ID: <4063A598.2030505@perfect-image.com>

myang wrote:
> I am revising a python module, and try it in python shell. Each time after
> the module is modified, how can I import the new module? I remember there is
> an "import" like staff to do it, but dont know its name clearly. I was not
> able to google out it, and the huge bulk of python documentation is
> fearsome. :(
> 
> Regards,
> Yang
> 
> 

If I understand the question....

you want to reload the modified module without
exiting the interpiter?

if so try

reload(mymod)



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 14:13:33 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:13:33 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<4qet50hla2dna5g8gqcbbfj2tsmu3smkp7@4ax.com>
	<hb6dnazJyf6ZQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <s7eu50lfu5aha4vv4ti2ogeuboeipm5bvs@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:33:08 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>> Surely it *is* a list - a list of modifier functions to apply to the
>> original function.
>
>If it's a list, then just as surely a tuple should be allowed in its 
>place, as in every (?) other such case in Python that I can think of.
>Would that be part of the proposal?  (I haven't read the full PEP, sorry.)

I don't think tuples were mentioned in the PEP, though I only skimmed
through it quickly. But, well...

>(I know, "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin blah blah..." :-)

Yes, I have to agree.

The list-like syntax isn't too confusing in this context. A
tuple-based context would be. With parens, it would look a lot like
having too lists of arguments. Without, well, IMO it'd be even worse.

Which still shouldn't be read as me expressing a preference - the 'as'
syntax is roughly equally good IMO.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 14:11:53 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:11:53 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> What is it that this script is doing? How is it getting invoked? And if it's
> being invoked by a non-root user, why should that user be allowed to do
> something that requires root privileges? Is there any reason why you simply
> don't run the script as root?

The script is setting the root password. It is running as root, by root 
as a daily cron job. It does three things:

1. Set root password to XXXXXXXXX
2. Make certain ssh is enabled on the machine, if not enable it.
3. Email the machine's IP to the admins

Root is the owner of the script... it's perms are 700

Why am I doing this? Because users turn off ssh and change the root 
password. Mac OSX allows "administrative" users to do this. This script 
undoes their changes.

> P.S. If you're going to automatically run the script on 200 machines, and
> you're putting the root password inside the script, does that imply that you
> have a network of 200 machines that all have the same root password?

Yes.



From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 24 04:45:05 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 11:45:05 +0200
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:

    Andrew> But the decorator syntax doesn't help with this case at
    Andrew> all.

    Andrew> You *could* hack up multimethods today, though, by abusing
    Andrew> metaclasses:

Hmm? I would have figured that once you are able to associate
parameter types with a function name and a concrete callable the gets
called, you can implement multimethods.

The wrapper would essentially

1. Look up the function name N from func_name

2. Insert the mapping of parameter types to the callable in the
   data structure that holds the mappings for multimethod N

3. Return the dispatcher object that remembers it's a dispatcher for
   multimethod N, so, when called, it can search the data structure
   for its own multimethod for the concrete callable to invoke with
   the parameters.

This would obviously be used for CLOS-style multimethods, i.e. the
concrete methods would be plain functions. This wouldn't work for
operator overloading, for example, unless all the dispatcable classes
did a:

class C:
    def __mul__(self, other):
        return mm_multiply(self,other)


Where mm_multiply would be the multimethod. Perhaps a base class could
be introduced that did this for all the operators...

Again, I might be overlooking something, but I haven't yet figured out
what :).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From w.ewert2002 at gmx.de  Tue Mar  9 10:42:21 2004
From: w.ewert2002 at gmx.de (Wolfgang Ewert)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:42:21 +0100
Subject: (Zope] ZserverSSL as a win32 service
Message-ID: <tkok2c.otc.ln@news.wolfgang.ewert.com>

Hi,

I'd installed and running Zope Zserver as a service under w2k. Now I'll
migrate to ZserverSSL by NG Pheng Siong (m2crypto-0.12 as win32
binaries). I tried these steps from the ZserverSSL Howto but I need no
installation (step4) and I haven't any C compiler working under w2k. 
I'll try to reinstall the zopeservice now with HTTPS_Server.py included.
I've no plan for it.

Thank you
	Wolfgang Ewert


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Sat Mar 20 19:30:54 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:30:54 GMT
Subject: [snip too-long subject]
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.149.1079674608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7jxhuuex.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dVGXAls/KHBK089yn@the-wire.com>
	<1079827655.31510.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <vpnp505ssqeiv3pbs5tfejfahqolu7end3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:07:50 +0000, Garry Knight <garryknight at gmx.net>
wrote:
>
>It might be useful to think of the items in each list coming together like
>the teeth of a zipper. But it's better than that: you're not constrained to
>two sets of teeth:
>
>>>> L3 = [9, 10, 11, 12]
>>>> zip(L1,L2,L3)
>[(1, 5, 9), (2, 6, 10), (3, 7, 11), (4, 8, 12)]

I have found zip quite useful.

But I think it is a case of Python being for consenting adults.  If
the lists are of unequal length, the first 'n' items of each list,
with 'n' being the number of items in the shortest list, are zipped.
It is assumed that is one's intention, and there is no warning that
you have attempted to zip unequal length lists.  Where the lists are
coming together from different sections of the code, are being built
dynamically, and there are corner cases to concern oneself with - well
something unexpected could be passing unless there is explicit testing
somewhere along the route.

Map behaves differently, matching None with the item in the longer
length list when the lists are of unequal length. Which I think makes
it easier to catch exceptions.

I guess I am the stage of understanding some of the not fully obvious
"traps". Sometimes, even, before I fall into them.

Art


From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Mar 11 03:50:28 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 00:50:28 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <d28ac2c5.0403110050.199062ff@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg wrote, amongst other things:
> 
> If you believe as I do that Python is not yet the ultimate language,

If Python were the ultimate language, it would be a Lisp ;-)

> and some syntactical changes are still to come, then it seems like
> using a very distinct symbol like @ may have some merits.  This is not

Perhaps, but as it stands, Python syntax is the best compromise in
readability I have seen in any programming language, and I for one am
very comfortable with less cryptic symbols - another case for explicit
is better than implicit.

--
Christopher


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 19:58:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:58:03 -0500
Subject: Neat Trick for Loading Modules with unknown Name
In-Reply-To: <rdm3j1-l1g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.223.1079927977.742.python-list@python.org>
	<hb6dna_Jyf5QQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<rdm3j1-l1g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <OsCdnYdqlecGFsLdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Roger Binns wrote:
>>__import__ doesn't handle packages, right?  The above with exec()
>>appears, unfortunately, to be the simplest approach(*) to handling
>>*arbitrary* imports, even if they are nested as in xml.sax.whatever.
> 
> Depends on your definition of *arbitrary* :-)  

True.  So I guess we could say the exec() approach is the simplest
way to do arbitrary *normal* imports, while __import__ can handle
arbitrary "simple" imports as-is, but neither alone is sufficient
for the entire possible range of (arbitrary) imports.  :-)

-Peter


From p at trick.lu  Fri Mar 19 10:06:27 2004
From: p at trick.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:06:27 +0100
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
Message-ID: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>

Hi All,
I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
- the ease of compiling CPython
- the thread support (both for Python and in general)
- running Twisted.
Regards,
-pu
--
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar  8 13:37:05 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:37:05 +0100
Subject: Initializing Member Variables
References: <c2i9vi$mip$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <c2iegh$m80$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Scott Brady Drummonds wrote:

> I'm a Python novice and just diagnosed a problem that is confusing me.  I
> wrote a class that looks like this:
> 
> class Keys:
>   __dict = {}
> 
>   def __init__(self, key):
>     self.__dict[key] = key
>     print('keys are now: %s' % self.__dict.keys())
> 
> 
> When I test this class from my Python interpreter (interactive), I see the
> following strange behavior:
> 
>>>> import keys
>>>> k1 = keys.Keys('1')
> keys are now: ['1']
>>>> k2 = keys.Keys('2')
> keys are now: ['2', '1']
>>>> k3 = keys.Keys('4')
> keys are now: ['4', '2', '1']
>>>>
> 
> 
> Maybe this isn't strange for a Python developer, but it sure is for me.  I
> thought that the "__dict = {}" line after the class declaration was
> supposed
> to initialize that member variable for each object.  Obviously, that's not
> happening.  Instead, that variable is retaining its value from one object
> to
> the next, like a static member variable.  For what it's worth, it seems
> that this static variable behavior is not observed when using scalar
> variables. Just with dictionaries.

You've pretty much answered it yourself, except for the last sentence. The
difference is not scalars versus vectors but rebinding versus mutating.

a = {} # rebind a
a = b  # rebind a

is fundamentally different from

a[key] = value # change a's value

As strings and integers are immutable you are always using only the first
pattern - it doesn't matter if you reuse the same object in several places,
because its value can never change.

> Where have I gone wrong?  What is the purpose of that "initialization" in
> the Keys class?  What is the correct was to initialize a class's member
> variable and guarantee that it is properly initialized for all objects?

self.__dict used in the __init__() method is misleading in your case,
because if the attribute is not found in the instance, lookup proceeds to
the class. This may have funny effects:

>>> class A:
...     b = 1
...
>>> a = A()
>>> a.b
1
>>> a.b = 2 # create an instance attribute
>>> a.b     # the class attribute is now shadowed...
2
>>> A.b     # ...but still there
1
>>> del a.b # delete the instance attribute
>>> a.b     # the class atttribute is visible again
1

Putting it all together: create the dictionary in the __init__() method
instead of the class body (and while we're at it - do you really need that
extra privacy provided by the double underscore?):

>>> class Keys:
...     def __init__(self, key):
...             self._dict = {}
...             self._dict[key] = key
...
>>> k = Keys("first")
>>> k2 = Keys("second")
>>> k._dict
{'first': 'first'}
>>> k2._dict
{'second': 'second'}
>>>

Peter


From stefano at cavallari.cjb.net  Thu Mar 18 08:44:59 2004
From: stefano at cavallari.cjb.net (Stefano Cavallari)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:44:59 +0100
Subject: Python,mysql question
In-Reply-To: <a4648036.0403180509.5ce9df39@posting.google.com>
References: <a4648036.0403180509.5ce9df39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079617499.1533.32.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Il gio, 2004-03-18 alle 14:09, james blair ha scritto:
> Hi
> I have a search page & the reults for the search are fetched from the
> database.
> I want that on the results page only first 25 results are shown & a
> link "next 25 results" be shown.Same for the 2nd result page.
> How do I do this?
here is how I ( a python newbie :) ) do it, using mod_python for apache
and ... sorry for the last req.write that is quite hard to read

def search(req,start="0",itemsperpage="5"):
    req.write("<html>" etc etc... )
    start=int(start) 
    itemsperpage=int(itemsperpage)
    curs1=db1.cursor()
    curs1.execute("""SELECT ... FROM ... WHERE
    ORDER BY ... LIMIT %s,%s
    ;""",(start,itemsperpage+1) )
    for i in xrange(itemsperpage):
	row=curs1.fetchone()
	if row!=None:
            req.write(repr(row)) # change to something more useful
    row=curs1.fetchone() # any row left for next page?
    req.write((
    '<a href="/script.py/search?itemsperpage='+str(itemsperpage)+
    '&amp;start='+str(start-itemsperpage)+'">Previous</a> ')
    *(start-itemsperpage>=0)
    +('<a href="/script.py/search?itemsperpage='+str(itemsperpage)
    +'&amp;start='+str(start+itemsperpage)+'">Next</a>')*
    (row!=None))

the last req.write(..) could be rewritten as 

if (start-itemsperpage>=0):
    req.write('<a href="/script.py/search?itemsperpage='+str(itemsperpage)+
    '&amp;start='+str(start-itemsperpage)+'">Previous</a> ')
if row!=None:
    #first line of "next page" is empty, so no "next page" is needed
    req.write('<a href="/script.py/search?itemsperpage='+str(itemsperpage)
    +'&amp;start='+str(start+itemsperpage)+'">Next</a>')

which is far more readable.

Any comment is appreciated, it's one of the first python script I wrote.
HTH, HAND
-- 
Linux User #153639 	RoLug Member - http://rovigo.linux.it
GnuPG id:E88F9363 keyserver.linux.it
Jabber id:cava at jabber.linux.it 




From nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 17:42:04 2004
From: nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com (calpolynate)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 14:42:04 -0800
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
Message-ID: <96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9@posting.google.com>

I'm attempting to open a file, read the lines, sort them, change any
uppercase character to lowercase, and output to another file:

import string

unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r')
L = unsorted.readlines()
L.sort()
L = L.lower()
sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
sorted.writelines(L)
unsorted.close()
sorted.close()

when trying to run, I get this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "sort_list.py", line 6, in ?
    L = L.lower(L)
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'lower'

Do I need to somehow convert the list into strings?

Thanks for any help!


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Mar 11 10:25:01 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 07:25:01 -0800
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403110725.2ebe1b55@posting.google.com>

Uwe Mayer <merkosh at hadiko.de> wrote in message news:<c2pj49$ej3$1 at news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I know the python community is not very receptive towards extending the
> python syntax. Nevertheless I'd like to make a suggestion and hear your pro
> and cons.
> 
> I want so suggest a concatenation operator like in mathematics: ?
> such that: 
> 
>     a(b(c(d))) <=> a?b?c(d)
> 
> Now, why do you think such an extension would be completely useless? ;)
> 
> Ciao
> Uwe

This is not useless, but does not require new notations. Just use
callable objects instead of functions and overload "*" to denote
composition.


                  Michele Simionato


From chenet.carl at free.fr  Fri Mar 19 11:57:58 2004
From: chenet.carl at free.fr (chaica)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:57:58 +0100
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.19.16.57.58.283236@free.fr>

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:06:27 +0100, Patrick Useldinger wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.
> Regards,
> -pu

You won't have any difference for python working under freebsd or openbsd.
Just be sure about your python version, many differnces come from a
version to another one.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 09:20:14 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:20:14 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid> <xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
Message-ID: <16465.50974.577405.950902@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Regarding

    >> del sys.modules['modulename']; import modulename

vs.

    >> del modulename ; import modulename

Peter sez:

    Peter> Just to clarify, *neither* of the above solutions does anything
    Peter> useful, as far as I know.  Only reload() will really reload a
    Peter> module.  Certainly the del mod/import mod approach is practically
    Peter> a no-op...

Not so.  del sys.modules['mod']/import mod is effectively what reload()
does.  Given foo.py with this content:

    a = 1
    print a

here's a session which shows that it is outwardly the same as reload(...).
That is, the module-level code gets reexecuted (precisely because there's
not already a reference in sys.modules).

    >>> import foo
    1
    >>> reload(foo)
    1
    <module 'foo' from 'foo.pyc'>
    >>> import foo
    >>> import sys
    >>> del sys.modules['foo']
    >>> import foo
    1

David MacQuigg's contention that it doesn't work is missing the fact that
when he executed 

    a = testimport.a

he simply created another reference to the original object which was outside
the scope of the names in testimport.  Reloading testimport created a new
object and bound "testimport.a" to it.  That has nothing to do with the
object to which "a" is bound.  This is the problem reload() doesn't solve.

Given Python's current object model it would be an interesting challenge to
write a "super reload" which could identify all the objects created as a
side effect of importing a module and for those with multiple references,
locate those other references by traversing the known object spaces, then
perform the import and finally rebind the references found in the first
step.  I thought I saw something like this posted in a previous thread on
this subject.

In case you're interested in messing around with this, there are three
object spaces to be careful of, builtins (which probably won't hold any
references), all the imported module globals (which you can find in
sys.modules) and all the currently active local Python functions (this is
where it gets interesting ;-).  There's a fourth set of references
- those held by currently active functions which were defined in
extension modules - but I don't think you can get to them from pure Python
code.  Whether or not that's a serious enough problem to derail the quest
for super_reload() function is another matter.  Most of the time it probably
won't matter.  Every once in a great while it will probably bite you in the
ass.  Accordingly, if super_reload() can't track down all the references
which need rebinding it should probably raise a warning/exception or return
a special value to indicate that.

Skip



From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 22:15:17 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:15:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Enumerating words and Adding integer, character and string
Message-ID: <20040306031517.67563.qmail@web60809.mail.yahoo.com>

1. How do I make a vector of words in a file.
Ex:
File has 

Alpha
Beta 
Gamma

I want to have this file:
1 Alpha
2 Beta
3 Gamma

I just dont want to write it/print it instead I want a
mapping. A vector kind of thing whose first attribute
is interger second is the 'word'


2. How to I create a string for example by adding:

s=1 + ":" + "dont"

this does not work if I normally try to concatenate
and write to a file.

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Dont

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From leo at bella.local  Tue Mar 16 07:47:13 2004
From: leo at bella.local (leo)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 23:47:13 +1100
Subject: newbie question: nop statement for try/except
Message-ID: <m2n06ht0vi.fsf@bella.local>

hi there

the "try/[except|finally]" construct seems to need the second part "except"
resp. "finally" due to syntactical reasons.

but in some cases i guess i do not need any statement in the second
part. but just carrying on without an idented block doesn't work.

so, is there something a no-operation statement?

thanks, leo


From hostmaster at nedit.org  Sun Mar  7 08:22:06 2004
From: hostmaster at nedit.org (nedit.org)
Date: Sun,  7 Mar 2004 14:22:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Mailing lists have changed
Message-ID: <20040307132206.6B6FF3B397@jebediah.calyx.nl>

You are apparently trying to reach one of the NEdit mailing lists.
Please note that the nedit.org mailing lists have moved, and the
addresses for the list managers have changed. Amongst others,
majordomo at nedit.org is no longer valid. If you are looking
to subscribe to one of the NEdit mailing lists, please visit

    http://www.nedit.org/mail.shtml

where you will find insructions on how to join one or more of
the lists, or contact the list owners.


With kind regards
the NEdit hostmaster

--
This is an autogenerated message. Replies will most likely not 
reach an actual person.



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 10 05:04:51 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:04:51 +0100
Subject: trap attributeError from inside a dict ?
References: <404ed174$0$307$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c2mp83$b4l$02$1@news.t-online.com>

GrelEns wrote:

> hello,
> 
> i would like if this behaviour can be obtained from python : trap an
> attributeError from inside a subclassing dict class... (here is a silly
> examples to explain my question)
> 
> class Test(dict):
>  """subclassing a dict and each key will permit access to a tuple of fized
> size"""
>  def __init__(self):
>   pass
>  def load(self, adict):
>   """actually it will be done from a text file with fixed size fields,
>   each
> tuple will have the same size"""
>   for k in adict:
>    self[k] = tuple(adict[k])
> 
> t = Test()
> t.load({1: ('a', 'aa'), 2: ('(b', 'bb')})
> 
> here is what i would have :
>>>> t[1].get('first')
> 'a'
> 
> without having to define tuple as an object or subclassing tuple, of
> course now i had :
>>>> t[1].get('first')
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#15>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     t['A'].get('first')
> AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'get'
> 
> is it possible ?
> 
> btw my question is something like is there a way from inside Test code to
> say to python that when it first get t[1] it should not go further, trap
> the things one ask to do on t[key] and then calling a function such as
> 
> (inside Test)
>     def __get(self, key, readable):
>         mapping = {'first' : 1, 'second' : 2}
>         return self[key][mapping[readable]]
> 
> (maybe it is a silly design...but i need this because i do want some kind
> of readable object access without having to create all these objects)

Here's one way to do it:
 
>>> class Dict(dict):
...     translate = {"first": 0, "second": 1}
...     def __getitem__(self, key):
...             value = dict.__getitem__(self, key[0])
...             return value[self.translate[key[1]]]
...
>>> d = Dict([(1,("a", "aa")), (2, ("b", "bb"))])
>>> d[1, "first"]
'a'
>>> d[2, "second"]
'bb'

Here's another:

>>> class Dict(dict):
...     def __getitem__(self, key):
...             return Wrap(dict.__getitem__(self, key))
...
>>> class Wrap(object):
...     def __init__(self, data): self.data = data
...     first = property(lambda self: self.data[0])
...     second = property(lambda self: self.data[1])
...
>>> d = Dict([(1,("a", "aa")), (2, ("b", "bb"))])
>>> d[1].first
'a'
>>> d[2].second
'bb'
>>>

Note that you might end with *more* objects as every call to __getitem__()
creates a new Wrap instance. A cache could help, but if you did it properly
with a custom class for the values the problem wouldn't arise. 
Personally, I would put custom objects into a normal dictionary instead of
playing one of these tricks.

Peter



From khawaja_shahzads at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 18:26:44 2004
From: khawaja_shahzads at hotmail.com (Khawaja Shahzad Sadiq Butt)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:26:44 -0500
Subject: Problem with a script.
Message-ID: <BAY14-F29bSorxTjtRp00056908@hotmail.com>


Hello,
         There was a script/recipe published at active state. Is a basic 
connection string for ODBC.Here is it.

      The recipe tilted:

Python Database Interface for MS SQL Server

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/144183


In test file. What is the module dbcp. I can't configure what is or where 
can i get it .
when i run the code python give me the error of:
module dbcp not found.

I am runing it on windows using gadfly. I have also mxODBC installed.

Please tell me what should i do.

Regards


Khawaja Shahzad

_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and 
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp




From alet at librelogiciel.com  Sun Mar 21 15:15:24 2004
From: alet at librelogiciel.com (Jerome Alet)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:15:24 +0100
Subject: Accessing MS-Access DB from Linux
References: <mailman.211.1079886124.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.21.20.15.24.646553@librelogiciel.com>

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:21:54 -0300, Gustavo Rahal wrote:

> How can I access a MS-Access DB from a linux machine?


I'd suggest you try mxODBC, available from egenix.com

bye

Jerome Alet


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 10:07:50 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:07:50 -0000
Subject: monitoring a directory
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347DA@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>[Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk>]
>
>>The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the
>
>Hhm, looks like "win32file" expertise is around ;-)
>
>Shameless question plugin: Is there a way to find the realname of a
>file on Windows? In those times of DOS there was a DOS call/interrupt
>"Truename" that would return the real name of a files. This is
>important if you have created additional drives via the "SUBST"
>command.
>
>I'm still looking for a foolproof way to ensure that two files are
>different on windows. There are times where I'd like to avoid deleting
>the last valid copy of a file ...

Well, I must thank you for starting a small voyage of discovery. 
I had started to write a reply saying that I'd previously looked
and that it was impossible (altho' that seemed so unlikely, given
that the O/S itself *must* know whether two files were the same).
So I started to look around a little more, and found that you can
in fact tell if two files are the same using only what's available
in win32file. It's a little involved, but not too much, and nothing 
that a couple of functions can't encapsulate.

In essence, you get a handle to each file and call 
win32file.GetFileInformationByHandle for each. This
returns, among other things, a FileIndexHi/Lo pair
which, coupled with the VolumeSerialNumber also
returned gives you a unique id for a file *while it
is open by a process*. This means that you must have
both handles open to read the info before you close
either.

The following code works ok across drives SUBSTed to the
same path and drives mapped to the same network share.
(And -- naively -- to the same file given twice).

<code>

import os, sys
import win32file

def get_read_handle (filename):
  return win32file.CreateFile (
    filename,
    win32file.GENERIC_READ,
    win32file.FILE_SHARE_READ,
    None,
    win32file.OPEN_EXISTING,
    0,
    None
  )

def get_unique_id (hFile):
  (
    attributes,
    created_at, accessed_at, written_at,
    volume,
    file_hi, file_lo,
    n_links,
    index_hi, index_lo
  ) = win32file.GetFileInformationByHandle (hFile)
  return volume, index_hi, index_lo

def files_are_equal (filename1, filename2):
  hFile1 = get_read_handle (filename1)
  hFile2 = get_read_handle (filename2)
  are_equal = (get_unique_id (hFile1) == get_unique_id (hFile2))
  hFile2.Close ()
  hFile1.Close ()
  return are_equal

</code>

TJG

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From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 11:01:05 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:01:05 -0700
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
Message-ID: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Hi all,

I'm reaching out to the cygwin wizards out there, because I have a problem I
don't know how to even begin attacking.  An IPython user is having problems
with the help() command under cygwin, and since I only have access to linux
boxes, I have a real hard time helping him out.

Brief background: ipython (http://ipython.scipy.org) is a free replacement for
the standard python interpreter with a ton of added features.  It is pure
python code, with no C extensions at all.

We've narrowed it down to the following.  Under ipython, here is what he gets
with a popen() call:

,---
| Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25) 
| Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
| 
| IPython 0.5.0 -- An enhanced Interactive Python.
| ?       -> Introduction to IPython's features.
| @magic  -> Information about IPython's 'magic' @ functions.
| help    -> Python's own help system.
| object? -> Details about 'object'. ?object also works, ?? prints more.
| 1% import os
| 2% xmode Verbose
| Exception reporting mode: Verbose
| 3% pipe=os.popen('less','w')
|      10 [main] python2.3 2896 sync_with_child: child 3032(0x6D4) died before
initialization with status code 0x1
|    9375 [main] python2.3 2896 sync_with_child: *** child state child loading
dlls
| ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| OSError                                   Traceback (most recent call last)
| 
| /home/thorsten/<console> 
| 
| OSError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable

Under a normal python shell, the popen() call goes through ok.  Note that the
[main] errors are _above_ the traceback, which means they are being printed
straight to stdout/err by the python core, not through the normal traceback
mechanisms.  I've never seen the 'Resource temporarily unavailable' error
before, and I don't really know what can be going on here.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

f.


From hamilcar at never.mind  Sun Mar  7 02:01:15 2004
From: hamilcar at never.mind (Hamilcar Barca)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 00:01:15 -0700
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
References: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <20040307020101.539$r9@news.newsreader.com>

In article <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669 at news000.worldonline.dk> (Sun, 07 Mar
2004 05:14:20 +0100), Bo Jacobsen wrote:

> I'm new to Python, and it looks as if there is no
> C like "#include and extern" or function protypes. 

That's right.

> No shell like ".
> ../filename"

I don't understand this part.

> Is there any way to implement them ?

I don't know.  I've been a C programmer for almost exactly 20 years: Neither 
"extern" nor function prototypes are necessary in Python.

> PS: For me, "import module" is no replacement for include.

"import" and "#include" do not have exactly the same meaning but they
accomplish more or less the same result.  

What is it you're trying to do that requires these C/C++ features?


From spisatus at coqui.net  Tue Mar 23 16:13:08 2004
From: spisatus at coqui.net (spisatus)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:13:08 -0400
Subject: creating lists question?
Message-ID: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>

I'm trying to create a series of list from a loop is this possible? Let me
give you an example:

list1 = ["aaa", "bbb", "ccc", "ddd", "eee"]

for element in list1:
  a = element
  a = []


I want a new list created for every element in list1, how can I do this.

Thanks!!
Spisatus





From michael at foord.net  Sat Mar 20 06:03:00 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 03:03:00 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
References: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403200303.5eae6726@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Regular expressions are not a good tool for this purpose.
> 
> Here's one bad solution:
> 
> def permutations:
>     raise NotImplementedException, "exercise for the reader"
> 
> def rxseq(seq):  # Return a RE that has seq[0] followed by seq[1] etc
>     return ".*".join(seq)
> 
> def rxand(seq):  # Return an RE that matches each permutation of seq
>     return "|".join([rxseq(p) for p in permutations(seq)])
> 
> This fails when one part can overlap another, for instance if
> word1="aba" and word2="b", "ab" or "ba".
> 
> You could also use a bunch of lookahead assertions, something like
>     (?=.*word1)(?=.*word2)
> but you'll also come to regret this choice.
> 
> Jeff
> PS If you liked these regular expressions and would like to buy more,
> visit e-bay where I'm selling a RE that matches multiples of 3 base 10.

Hmm... I'm not sure if I've been helped or not :-)
Thanks anyway.....

I've ended up just doing a search in the the database for the longest
word.... (which returns all songs containing that word) and then
checking hte text of *each* song for all the other
words...............

It's not noticeably slow (only 1800 songs)... 
If I do this again I might try and find a useful indexer..........

Odd that you can't do this easily with regular expressions - I suppose
it doesn't compile down to a neat test.... but then it's hardly a
complex search... OTOH I have *no idea* how regular expressions
actually work (and no need to find out)...

Regards


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 29 06:30:43 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:30:43 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<106eo695a9t8820@news.supernews.com>
	<106ev65lpu59614@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6g0hc.ha6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <106ev65lpu59614 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> Sigh. I'm replying to my own post. After I posted this, I
> remembered that something needs to be done to set up an
> inheritance chain among instances. That requires a custom
> __getattribute__() magic method, which will not be all that
> easy to write.

I'm collection up implementations (I've got 4 now) and later this week
(or next weekend, if I get too busy at work) I'll make a post about
what's been done and what still needs to be done.

Joe


From ciccio at unical.it  Tue Mar  9 08:25:02 2004
From: ciccio at unical.it (ciccio at unical.it)
Date: Tue,  9 Mar 2004 14:25:02 +0100
Subject: problem
Message-ID: <1078838702.404dc5ae50aa9@webmail.unical.it>

Hi 
I have a big probel. I'm using a script to run sequencially 5 programs, but 
just one of them runs before the next. Can you help me to solve this problem? 
many thanks 
ernesto 
 
 
 
 
 
 
PS:I think to be registered in this mailing list with the address 
e.picardi at unical.it that is the same of this one (ciccio at unical.it) 

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From sean_berry at cox.net  Thu Mar 25 15:54:35 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:54:35 -0600
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
References: <96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bnJ8c.3492$GH3.2738@fed1read07>

Try the following

unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r').readlines() -- two steps into one
unsorted.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(string.lower(x), string.lower(y)))
unsorted.close()
sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
sorted.writelines(unsorted)
soretd.close()

Your problem is that you are trying to use a string method on a list.


calpolynate <nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9 at posting.google.com...
> I'm attempting to open a file, read the lines, sort them, change any
> uppercase character to lowercase, and output to another file:
>
> import string
>
> unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r')
> L = unsorted.readlines()
> L.sort()
> L = L.lower()
> sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> sorted.writelines(L)
> unsorted.close()
> sorted.close()
>
> when trying to run, I get this traceback:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "sort_list.py", line 6, in ?
>     L = L.lower(L)
> AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'lower'
>
> Do I need to somehow convert the list into strings?
>
> Thanks for any help!




From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 23:55:14 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 04:55:14 GMT
Subject: Sermon on technique (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my
 particular niche)
References: <mailman.475.1080412762.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40661C14.8365E058@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106cdgj9nauhqcd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40665BBD.828AD1AB@doe.carleton.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> One of the hardest things in science (and business,
> and romance, and ...) is to deal with uncertainty
> and incompleteness.  Yup:  you have countervailing
> criteria.  Figuring out the true optimum is a bigger
> project than the CAD engineering you claim as your
> goal.  At some point--probably this weekend, from
> the sound of it--you need to make decisions, and
> move forward.  They might be wrong decisions, on
> narrow technical grounds.  Good scientists make
> wrong decisions all the time.  Don't let 'em get in
> the way of your science--that's all.

Sounds like the story of life, actually: making
decisions based on the available info, and the
residual uncertainty; making the most of the
decision, as well as knowing when things have
to change despite past decisions.  Not a bad thing,
really. Life would be dead boring otherwise.

> You've done a good job thinking about what you want,
> and what's available.  Good luck with your combina-
> torics.


Glad you think so.  I know many who would have thought
it was too much digging to make the decision, but now I
have a guiding "plan" if it can be called that.  Hopefully
it will optimize the use of my time going forward.  Now I
gotta run like the wind.  Thanks for all your input.

Fred

Fred


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Mar  1 02:02:02 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Feb 2004 23:02:02 -0800
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<tyffzcwbm7x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<95aa1afa.0402272327.29828430@posting.google.com>
	<tyfsmgtbewl.fsf@lxplus030.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0402292302.1283af4c@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfsmgtbewl.fsf at lxplus030.cern.ch>...
> I think that you are misleading yourself. You are comparing apples to
> quinces.

I thank you for the long post and the time you spent in clarifying the
issue I had; however, you are speaking to a converted, since I already
came to the same conclusion on my own (see my reply to Bengt Richter).
 
> So, you see, Python's scoping rules are just like Scheme's, in this
> sense. Unfortunately, I don't think that it's so easy (or even
> possible?) to demonstrate it the other way around (ie show a Scheme
> snippet in which add0(0) == add1(0) == 1)

See my reply to Bengt.

> Try the following:
> 
> x = 3
> def show(): global x; print x
> show() # => 3
> x += 1
> show() # => 4
> 
> def outer():
>     x = 3
>     def show(): print x
>     show() # => 3
>     x += 1
>     show() # => 4
> outer()
> 
> ... which prints out the numbers 3,4,3 and 4.
> 
> You don't really believe that the last number should be 3, do you ?

No, I agree with you on every respect. It is just that Scheme hides
the issue; but it hides it so well that in practice you never do 
the mistake. 
Still, I maintain that the ability to subclass FunctionType would be nice ;)

             Michele Simionato


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 16 22:53:29 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 19:53:29 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.52.1079472192.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0403161953.19bec0ed@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.52.1079472192.742.python-list at python.org>...

> No, its behavior is quite well-specified.  It does a pointer comparison.
> Here is my "is" rule:
> 
>     Use "is" to compare two objects only if one is explicitly known to be a
>     singleton defined by the language (None, Ellipsis, True, False).
> 
> and its corrolary:
> 
>     Never use "is" to compare two programmer-defined variables.
>
What about when it is an object explicitly known to be singleton
defined by the programmer. ;)

Another possible use, would be to type test, eg.  'foo.__class__ is
Foo', bearing in mind that one should avoid type testing in favour of
polymorphism.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar  9 16:52:39 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:52:39 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<c2j71h$ovl$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <omes40p89urcnnb7jm49vh30n5aga90mr4@4ax.com>

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:34:06 +0000, leeg
<leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid> wrote:

>Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
>
><snip GOTO>
>> 
>> No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.
>
>*points at the Linux kernel source*

Examples of use are not proof that such use is a good thing.

More relevant here, kernal programming is not the kind of job that
Python is designed for. What is justifiable in kernal programming is
not necessarily justifiable for the kinds of applications that are
written in Python. On similar principles, whats justifiable in the
Python source code is not necessarily justifiable in, errrm, Python
source code :-)

Which is not to say that Y2KYZFR1s absolute decree was valid, of
course.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 11 11:45:02 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:02 -0600
Subject: [PyQT] QSocketNotifier problem
In-Reply-To: <c2q1jl$oks$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c2q1jl$oks$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040311164502.GE14393@unpythonic.net>

I suspect that QSocketNotifier is built on top of poll or select.  The
documentation I have for poll is too terse for me to be sure, but I
suspect POLLIN behaves like the readfs set in select.  The documentation
for select makes it clear that "readable" means that reading will not
block---so an end-of-file condition counts.

I'm not sure how you're really supposed to deal with this in a way that
doesn't block, doesn't spin, and doesn't involve doing something based
off a timer.  Here's one idea that does involve a timer:

When reading the FIFO indicates an end-of-file condition, close the
fifo.  Then, at intervals, attempt to reopen it.  When opened with
O_NONBLOCK, the open fails with ENXIO if there is no writer.

Ensuring that there's always a writer for the FIFO might work too,
because then poll/select will not detect an end-of-file condition.

Jeff



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Mar 29 22:30:26 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 03:30:26 GMT
Subject: [Announce] M2Crypto 0.13
Message-ID: <c4apki$gj0$2@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

M2Crypto 0.13 is now available.

M2Crypto is a crypto and SSL toolkit for Python featuring the following:

  * RSA, DSA, DH, HMACs, message digests, symmetric ciphers (including AES).
  * SSL functionality to implement clients and servers.
  * HTTPS extensions to Python's httplib, urllib, and xmlrpclib.
  * Unforgeable HMAC'ing AuthCookies for web session management.
  * FTP/TLS client and server.
  * S/MIME.
  * ZServerSSL: A HTTPS server for Zope.
  * ZSmime: An S/MIME messenger for Zope.

Get it here:

    http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps/m2/

Feedback is appreciated. Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Tue Mar 30 18:10:16 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:10:16 +0200
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB61_1080688200_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124CBC@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca>

Sent:
596597504,29628076

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
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From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 15 14:43:51 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:43:51 -0600
Subject: random.random - Interpreter works, Script doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <c34pab02ked@enews2.newsguy.com>
References: <105ac9sm9lvij49@corp.supernews.com>
	<vjka50dllikgbrmnel0b55ldrsq95tsvga@4ax.com>
	<c34khj02f8g@enews2.newsguy.com>
	<c34n2s$hcd$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c34pab02ked@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <16470.1911.988624.798146@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Peter> You didn't name the above script random.py, did you :-)

    Bill> Bingo :o) Thanks! Bad habit, huh?

Very bad.  Done often enough you will wind up with lots of bite marks on
your butt.

Skip



From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Mar  8 02:32:00 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:32:00 GMT
Subject: "print" as function not statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>

Paul Prescod wrote:
>         As a convenience, if the show function is passed a
>         single object to show, it returns that object. If
>         it is passed more then one, it returns them as a
>         tuple. This can be very convenient in debugging
>         contexts.

That would lead to a problem with the interactive shell, though. For 
instance, this would happen:

 >>> show('foo')
foo
'foo'

I'm sure there would be some way around that, but it might add more 
oddities to the language than print does.

In any case, I did a quick Python implementation of the show function. 
All bugs are features. :-)

import sys

def show(*objects, **parameters):
     seperator = parameters.get('seperator', ' ')
     trailer = parameters.get('trailer', '\n')
     to = parameters.get('to', sys.stdout)
     first = 1
     for object in objects:
         if not first:
             to.write(str(seperator))
         to.write(str(object))
         first = 0
     to.write(str(trailer))
     if len(objects) == 1:
         return objects[0]
     else:
         return objects


From anand at easi.soft.net  Wed Mar 31 04:22:16 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:52:16 +0530
Subject: Python & COM
References: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C0723BD4A@PDC-DSPACE>
Message-ID: <406A8DC8.3020007@easi.soft.net>

Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the suggestion. From little debug i found out that I am 
getting VARIANT of safe array.
How ever I am not getting proper values from the safe array.

Could you please suggest how to implement that
Do you see any problem in the following code.

>
>SAFEARRAY *array=V_ARRAY(a);
>long i,val;
>for(i=0;i<len;i++){
>   SafeArrayGetElement(array,&i,&val)
>   c_array[i]= val;
>}
>
>I am not getting proper values in C array.
>Any suggestions?
>  
>





From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 22 12:04:26 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:04:26 -0700
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhvnfba.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403211310.15764495@posting.google.com>
	<7x4qshn64t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <fd5u50lqcbhtfr1r92n7lahmk3mn1npv5n@4ax.com>

On 21 Mar 2004 15:16:02 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
[ snip discussion on Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG) and
Mersenne Twister (MT) ]
>> No corners were cut.  MT is a state-of-the-art psuedo random number
>> generator.  The problem is that you want encryption.
>
>This sha prng module was motivated partly by your own remark in sf bug
>#901285 that MT output may not be sufficiently correlation-free if you
>take pairs of 16-bit integers from it, in a context having nothing to
>do with encryption.  Anyway, despite how it may sound, I don't have
>any desire to use the random module for encryption (I'd use different
>API's for that).  I just want to be able to write applications that
>use random numbers without having any doubts about whether the random
>numbers are good enough.  Teukolsky et al in "Numerical Recipes",
>which is not a cryptography book, explain that a good way to do that
>is to use cryptographic primitives, so I'm proposing a module that
>does it that way.  
>
>The application in numerics could be something like: I run some
>half-hour simulation using MT, and get results that subjectively seem
>a bit peculiar.  So I run it again using the crypto-based generator
>and maybe that takes three hours, but if I still see similarly
>peculiar-looking results, I now can be pretty confident that it's not
>some consequence of the RNG internals.  It subjectively seems to me
>that the Gnome version of Freecell is easier to play than the Windows
>version (i.e. it deals easier hands), so that's a semi-real-world
>example of this situation.  (In this instance I suspect Freecell is
>using some pathetic linear PRNG or something like that, but I haven't
>yet bothered to look at the code).

This reminds me of a similar discussion I had with a bunch of PhD
mathematicians who wanted to sell my company a better statistics tool.
Their claim was that the tool we were using, which had some simple
PRNG, could give us bad results because of the correlations, short
cycles, etc. that were known to mathematicians.  This turned into a
heated debate, involving our R&D Director and other company
management, with me ( a dumb engineer who only understands simple
statistics ) vs a team of PhDs who could fill the a blackboard with
incomprehesible math proving I was wrong.  We ended up keeping the old
tool *and* buying theirs, when we should have made a clean decision.

I'm still curious as to the answer to my very simple and basic
question:  Are there any examples that show a *non-subjective*
difference in a physically meaningful result between one PRNG and
another?  By "physically meaningful" I mean to include things like
means, standard deviations, correlations between two distributions,
but rule out some measure that would only mean something to a
mathematician.  By "non-subjective" I mean a difference that can be
observed in a repeatable fashion, where the statistical significance
is not always at the edge when you repeat the experiment with more
trials.

The only answer I got from the earlier discussion was a reference to
some paper on a German website, but when I looked, the website was
gone.

-- Dave



From theaney at cablespeed.com  Fri Mar  5 09:09:17 2004
From: theaney at cablespeed.com (Tim Heaney)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:09:17 -0500
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<14b36d18.0403050216.ad3a7f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <877jxzv10y.fsf@mrbun.watterson>

antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad) writes:
>
> I downloaded PyXML from sourceforge, but could not install it.

Python already comes with stuff like xmllib, minidom, and the
aforementioned sgmllib

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/markup.html

You should be able to do what you described without installing
anything else.

I hope this helps,

Tim


From bob at redivi.com  Tue Mar  2 16:18:06 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:18:06 -0500
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
	<Hu61c.84024$Wa.81499@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <2004030216180675249%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-02 15:52:55 -0500, "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> said:

> beliavsky at aol.com:
> 
>> Thanks. I am going to learn about Psyco. In this case, I assume that
>> doing the computations with floating point numbers and finally
>> converting the result to int gives the same values as the original
>> integer calculation. In other cases, integer arithmetic will need to
>> be done with integers to ensure correct results.
> 
>    Yes, in this case float has enough range. That is something you get to
> determine with any fixed length numeric representation.
> 
>> Python is supposed to be easy (and in general I agree that it is), but
>> your solution requires some knowledge of
>> 
>> (1) how integer and floating point calculations are done (which many
>> novices do not have)
>> (2) when Psycho can speed things up
>> 
>> and the final result is still much slower than Fortran. For the
>> Fortran program, the only "trick" is the use of integer*8.
> 
>    With Fortran, you need to know how large your values are going to become.
> If you increased the number of iterations in your example sufficiently,
> Fortran's 64 bit integers would overflow requiring understanding of the
> concept of fixed range integers. Python avoids this by using unbounded
> integers. Python is oriented towards ease of use and correctness at the
> expense of speed. If the speed of the Python program is inadequate then you
> can take a working Python program and work on its speed. Or decide that the
> speed problem needs another language.
> 
>    Python does optimize integers that can be represented in 32 bits but
> larger than that and unbounded integers are used. For some applications, it
> would be better if Python also optimized integers that require between 32
> and 64 bits.

Especially on architectures that have 64 bit integer registers, but are 
running on an operating system/compiler combination that uses 32 bits 
for int and long (such as the PowerPC 970, on OS X).  I would imagine a 
similar situation exists for other processor/enivronment combinations.

-bob



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 17:56:04 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:56:04 -0600
Subject: Split a sentence by punctuations using Python
In-Reply-To: <14b36d18.0403051444.21b3937e@posting.google.com>
References: <14b36d18.0403051444.21b3937e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16457.1412.335966.510869@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    chad> You know, string.split does not work for this objective.  So how
    chad> can i achieve this?

Check the re module docs.

Skip



From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Tue Mar 23 20:12:53 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:12:53 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
Message-ID: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>

Greetings,


I'm trying to teach Python to some linguistics students who are new to
programming.  The last time I did this was 2 years ago, with Python 2.1 and
IDLE.  (Windows environment.)  At the time, everything went smoothly except
installation; as I recall Python 2.1 wrote its links into Administrator's
start menu instead of All Users' start menu, and I had to move them.  But
once moved, it worked well.

Fast forward to 2004.  Following Ron Zacharski's "Python for Linguists," I
choose ActiveState Python.  It installs very smoothly but, but the IDE,
which is called Pythonwin, is frustrating in two respects:

- If the program has a serious syntax error, you don't get any error
messages in the interaction window.  There is only a brief note in the
status line at the bottom of the screen.  This is *very* frustrating to my
students.

- In the IDE, input() and raw_input() pop up an input box.  On the console,
they simply wait for input.  The disparity is annoying to students who are
basically learning the console paradigm.  It becomes excessively hard to
write an interactive console program with the IDE.

So on my Windows XP laptop just now, I de-installed Python 2.1 and
ActiveState Python 2.3, and went and downloaded Python 2.3.3 from
www.python.org.

All looks good except - IDLE won't start at all!!!  I try to launch it, get
a few seconds of the hourglass cursor, and it's gone, with nothing on the
screen and no processes running!

Rebooting didn't cure this.  What gives?


-- 

Michael A. Covington - Artificial Intelligence Ctr - University of Georgia

"In the core C# language it is simply not possible to have an uninitialized
variable, a 'dangling' pointer, or an expression that indexes an array
beyond its bounds.  Whole categories of bugs that routinely plague C and C++
programs are thus eliminated."  - A. Hejlsberg, The C# Programming Language




From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 01:39:22 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:39:22 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<lIR9c.57704$cx5.18878@fed1read04>
	<du73c7r7tub.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<Ut1ac.64446$cx5.43515@fed1read04>
	<4068D66A.7060800@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <9C8ac.68303$cx5.4075@fed1read04>

> but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.

Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:4068D66A.7060800 at sneakemail.com...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
>  > Prothon has announced that we are caving in and going to spaces instead
of
>  > tabs, even though both of the Prothon authors abhor spaces.
>
> You don't have to choose between them if you don't
> want to. Disallowing *mixed* tabs and spaces is sensible,
> but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a
> given file.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Mar 24 15:03:09 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:03:09 +0100
Subject: wxNotebook
Message-ID: <4061E97D.9090805@geochemsource.com>


 Hi All!

I would like to hide and show pages in a notebook. Here is what I do 
right now:

   def SetVisiblePages(self,pages):
       for index in range(self.notebook.GetPageCount()):
           self.notebook.GetPage(index).Show(index in pages)

But it does not work. All pages remain visible. Only their content will 
be invisible.
I also tried this:

self.notebook.Show(index in pages)

but it hides the whole nootebook. How can I hide/show individual pages?
Thanks in advance.

  Laci 2.0

p.s.: I sent this originally to the wxpython-users list but it never 
arrived.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Mar 10 08:00:54 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:00:54 -0500
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
In-Reply-To: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <404F1186.8080403@rogers.com>

Max M wrote:
...

> Can it really be that there is no free .zip command line tool for 
> Windows, or are my Googling skills just to poor?

I believe InfoZip is a free command-line zip/unzip utility, but I may be 
wrong about that, I normally use cygwin tar & gzip.

> Or is there a more Pythonic approach?

Honestly, I wouldn't do this myself, I just tell everyone to get tar and 
gzip, but here's a simple example of using ZipFile for creating zips of 
directories.  You'd want to check for .jpg, .mpg, etceteras and avoid 
compressing those most likely, but the basics are there.

HTH,
Mike

import zipfile, os

def toZip( directory, zipFile ):
    """Sample for storing directory to a ZipFile"""
    z = zipfile.ZipFile(
        zipFile, 'w', compression=zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED
    )
    def walker( zip, directory, files, root=directory ):
        for file in files:
            file = os.path.join( directory, file )
            # yes, the +1 is hacky...
            archiveName = file[len(os.path.commonprefix( (root, file) ))+1:]
            zip.write( file, archiveName, zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED )
            print file
    os.path.walk( directory, walker, z  )
    z.close()
    return zipFile


if __name__ == "__main__":
    toZip( 'v:\\temp', 'c:\\temp\\test.zip' )

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 05:04:30 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:04:30 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<105rush64n1trba@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tyfekrl6vv5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> I personally think that self not only should be a keyword,
> it should not be among the parameters at all. However, I
> seem to be in a distinct minority about that.

The existence of C++ or Java coding guidelines which advocate the
universal use of this->member or the use of m_member for all member
data and function names, is (to me) evidence of the necessity of self.

Also, ask an average[*] C++ programmer whether the following functions
have the same type:

void A::foo(void);
void B::foo(void);

(where A and B are both classes).

In my experience[+], they will, typically, be adamant that the types
are identical. If they have been exposed to Python, then you have more
than a fair chance that they will understand that the types are, in
fact, different.

Python's explicit passing of self makes people understand what is
going on, much better ... and I think that is a very valuable thing.


[*] And we all know just how dangerous "average" C++ programmers are.

[+] You probably don't want to know why I have had ample opportunity
    to ask this question, in real life.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar  6 17:50:25 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 22:50:25 GMT
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<c2dd2j$1relvv$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.77.1078607276.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2dkjg$1sekvm$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> > Both Bash shell and Python can split based on regular expression.
> > However, shell is not a bad alternative here:
> >     tr -s ' \t' ' ' | sed -e 's/ ?| ?/|/g' -e 's/^ //' -e 's/ $//' |
> >     while IFS='|' read -a clean; do
> >       ...
> >     done
> 
> But isn't that regex expression much harder to understand
> for part-time programmers than the few Python methods?

But, OP's audience is not part-time programmers.  My guess is that they
immediately abandon shell and jump to proprietary languages.  OP may
have better luck if they stick with shell a bit longer, and then jump to
Python as last resort.  

As for regex... it's usually easier to set up the data to be cut,
instead of cutting first and then patching up the pieces.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 13:13:55 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:13:55 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <40632163.7070405@zope.com>

Glenn Andreas wrote:
> What do you do if the expression is in an "if" statement?
> 
> 
> if map(def(x,y,z),list1,list2,list3):
>    # what goes here?  The body of the function
>    # or the body of the if?  And how does the rest of it
>    # look?

Ah, that's an interesting concern.  The same applies to "for" and 
"while" statements.  This would have to be a syntax error.  Rewriting it 
isn't too difficult, though, if you're willing to create an extra variable.

     condition = map(def(x,y,z),list1,list2,list3):
         function body
     if condition:
         do stuff

> Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing something 
> like:
> 
>    myHandlers = {
>       "click" : def(x,y):
>                      print "click at x,y"
>       "enter" : def():
>                      print "mouse entered"
>       "exit"  : def():
>                      print "mouse exited"
>    }

That example reads well, although it's odd that each function can have a 
different set of arguments.  I think you'd really want a "case" 
statement instead, but Guido doesn't seem to want that.

Shane



From faheem at email.unc.edu  Fri Mar 12 13:03:05 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:03:05 GMT
Subject: strings question
Message-ID: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

Dear People,

If I am given two strings, named foo and bar, what is the most elegant
way to create a string object whose name is the value of foo and whose
value is the value of bar? I have done some searching + looking in my
introductory textbook "Learning Python" but have not come up with an
answer yet.

Thanks.                                                      Faheem.



From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 10 21:44:04 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:44:04 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<104vg6f87k7gb19@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <hciv40hf01o3bkbm7ftk2833ofhko8653l@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:28:47 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
wrote:

>In article <fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc at 4ax.com>,
>David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>>Wouldn't it be nice, for example, if instead of special keywords like
>>'lambda' and 'yield', we had used '@(args)' and '@return'.  ( No, I'm
>>not advocating we go back and change what has been done.)  In both
>>these cases, we had a well-established syntax that needed a slight
>>variation.  
>>
>>The 'lambda function' for example, was needed to cram a small block of
>>code into a tight space.  By saying '@x,y:' instead of 'lambda x,y:',
>>we not only avoid the need for a new keyword, but we better serve the
>>purpose of tightly packing some code.  We would also avoid mystifying
>>beginners.  "It has no magic meaning.  It's just a way to write a
>>function without a name."
>			.
>			.
>			.
>No, for me it would be so far from nice I first suspected you
>of jesting, because, from my background, "lambda" *does* have
>a magic meaning, one that long precedes its (entirely apt) use
>in Python.  For you, '@(args)' might indeed be more evocative;
>for me, not calling a lambda "lambda" would be a big loss.
>
>I think APL and J (and Perl) are plenty meritorious.  I prefer
>Python--much.

I guess this reflects our different backgrounds.  I've been an
electronic design engineer for many years.  I never heard of lambda's
or lambda calculus until learning Python, and the name still doesn't
evoke much meaning for me.  I've never used APL, J, or Perl.  I wonder
how many technical professionals who are *not* programmers would know
what a lambda is?  I wonder if Python is becoming more a language for
programmers, and less for "everyone".

My initial impression in learning Python was that 'lambda' was
something tricky.  Then it became clear it was just a way to cram a
function into a small space like an argument list, except that there
were some strange restrictions on what could be put in the function.
Even now, it seems like 'lambda x,y:' is awkward if you are trying to
save space.  It seems like we have paid a price for the dubious
assumption that most users will benefit from the magic meaning of
'lambda'.

Ruby uses a notation like |x,y|, which is compact, but I don't like
adding special punctuation for every little task. (The Perl problem.)
If the goal is to cram a function into a tight space, we could do it
compactly, and have the extra burden of the new syntax be shared by
many other features.  They key characteristic is that they are small
departures from existing features and syntax, so the symantic burden
is not carried by the @ symbol.  It's just a flag to modify something
already well understood.  All @X says is "I'm like X, but different."
You still need to learn about X.

Again, my intention is not to change lambda functions, but to propose
a better way of introducing new syntax to a language that already has
all the basics worked out.  I would rather have one special symbol
than a bunch of new keywords that mean nothing to me.

-- Dave



From jrm at ccs.neu.edu  Thu Mar  4 10:31:57 2004
From: jrm at ccs.neu.edu (Joe Marshall)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:31:57 -0500
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
Message-ID: <smgoljbm.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>

"Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> writes:

> Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will tell
> you someplace that it is still in active use.

Focal
FX
Lakota
REBOL 1.x



From egusenet at verizon.net  Thu Mar 25 17:57:48 2004
From: egusenet at verizon.net (Eric)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:57:48 -0500
Subject: [Way OT] Condorcet vs. IRV
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet@verizon.net>
	<slrnc66do0.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet@verizon.net>
	<slrnc66led.77h.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <1gb7tvh.d93veg1ygf2adN%egusenet@verizon.net>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet at verizon.net>, Eric wrote:
> > Off the top of my head, the only inherent problem with it that I see is
> > that what happens if 'NONE' turns out to be the Condorcet Winner? 
> 
> Then the electorate has expressed its sincere opinion that no government
> at all is better than any of the candidates.  Government should be
> immediately dissolved and anarchy instituted.
> 
> I have friends who would be delighted.
> 
> It just occured to me that this is the exact case we have for PEP's, but
> with NONE as an explicit option.

Seems reasonable to me when taking no action is a reasonable option.



From luis_ at iname.com  Wed Mar  3 14:28:30 2004
From: luis_ at iname.com (Lupe)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:28:30 +0000
Subject: insertion in lists
Message-ID: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>

hi,

I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me to be
the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining of
the program.

if I have:
        element

        list [0]
and want to have list[0][0]
                 list[0][1]

how can I insert the element to that list[0][0], for example?
just to put things clearer, if I wanted to insert the element in list[0] I
could do list.insert(0,element).

I've tried list[0].insert(0,element) but gives me an error.


Luis


From davecook at nowhere.net  Sun Mar  7 09:37:25 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:37:25 GMT
Subject: New to Python;
	what about #include, extern and function prototypes
References: <Fkx2c.105588$jf4.6345669@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<20040307020101.539$r9@news.newsreader.com>
	<OCE2c.105781$jf4.6357260@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<404b18ce$0$565$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<RGF2c.105804$jf4.6360171@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <slrnc4mct5.fnt.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <RGF2c.105804$jf4.6360171 at news000.worldonline.dk>, Bo Jacobsen
wrote:

> By the way, is there an elegant way to read shell program output
> into a variable as in bash: var=$(command1 | command2)

I usually use the commands module:

  import commands

  status, output = commands.getstatusoutput("command1 | command2")
  
status would be $? in bashese.
  
Dave Cook





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 30 17:06:27 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:06:27 -0800
Subject: struct.pack Format String Question
References: <4069E5C6.BC5274E6@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4069EF63.5BF40688@alcyone.com>

Joshua Forgione wrote:

> In this case, 'B' is used.  What does 'B' represent?  What other
> characters can be used?  Does a list of this exist somewhere?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ But you're not going to be there tomorrow. And it's all about
    tomorrow. -- Montgomery Brogan


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 14 02:29:16 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:29:16 +0100
Subject: Interpreting \ escape sequences in strings
References: <40537b16$1_1@themost.net> <c302qi$3lj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4053daa0_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <c311kc$l1h$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Paul Watson wrote:

> I did have not explained it clearly.  I want the user to specify a string

Seems it was clear enough, you only didn't recognize the answer :-)

> that I will put between words in the output.  The user specified string
> can
> have escape sequences.  For example, the user wants to put a binary 1
> (\001) between each output word.
> 
> import sys
> words = ['now', 'is', 'the', 'time']
> print '\001'.join(words)        #this works
> print sys.argv[1].join(words)   #this fails

Change the above line to

print sys.argv[1].decode("string_escape")

s.decode("string_escape") returns a new string with all c-style escape
sequences converted into the corresponding characters. This is an abuse -
ahem, example of a general mechanism. Look for codecs if you want to learn
more about it.

Peter



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  2 18:12:03 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:12:03 -0800
Subject: Group comment
In-Reply-To: <c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <c234h9$nep$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> thus
> 
>      Q'XXX'
>      i=1
>      i+=1
>      print i
>      print i+1
>      'XXX'

You may as well suggest /* and */, as they are far more well known, and 
significantly more acceptable (in my opinion) than your syntax. 
Considering that /* */ has not already been added to the language, I 
doubt that an aribirary magical syntax for commenting code would be added.

  - Josiah


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Mar 17 21:48:40 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:48:40 +1300
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305903A3B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2B3A@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

>>> Have you tried uid("STORE", uid, "+FLAGS", "(\SEEN)")?
>> 
>> I was bitten by this just the other day.  Donn is correct, 
>> adding the surrounding parentheses fixes the problem.
>
> Actually it looks to me like there are parentheses in either 
> case.  What I wanted to try is two separate parameters, 
> rather than the whole thing "+FLAGS(\SEEN)" as one parameter. 
>  I think that will solve the problem, but am just guessing.
> 
> As far as I know, this is different from the parenthesis 
> issue you allude to.

I should have read it more carefully :)  The solution is indeed to split up
the args (tested).

It's still a result of the same flaw in _checkquote(), though, because in
the OP's version the whole UID STORE arg after the number is quoted, when it
shouldn't be.  I'd still like to see that function improved (which would fix
both the problems described, the OP's and mine), although I suppose there's
always Twisted.

=Tony Meyer




From mike at zcentric.com  Mon Mar 15 11:44:55 2004
From: mike at zcentric.com (Mike Zupan)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:44:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: py2exe and urllib(2) errors
Message-ID: <45960.66.193.31.32.1079369095.squirrel@www.zcentric.com>

I had some problems with urllib and py2exe under pyton2.3. I works fine
until i try to use the exe file.

Here is the error

Error: 1
LookupError Exception in Tk callback
  Function: <bound method MainWindow.selectDir of <__main__.MainWindow
instance
at 0x00DF4058>> (type: <type 'instancemethod'>)
  Args: ()
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "Pmw.pyc", line 1784, in __call__
    None
  File "<string>", line 270, in selectDir
    None
  File "<string>", line 361, in grabAlbumDirs
    None
  File "<string>", line 431, in addAlbumData
    None
  File "<string>", line 469, in grabImage
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 129, in urlopen
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 326, in open
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 306, in _call_chain
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 901, in http_open
    None
  File "urllib2.pyc", line 884, in do_open
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 712, in endheaders
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 597, in _send_output
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 564, in send
    None
  File "httplib.pyc", line 532, in connect
    None
LookupError: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding


Here is the section of code that produces the error

urllib.urlretrieve(imageURL, saveFile)

imageURL and saveFile are correct


Here is my setup.py file

# setup.py
from distutils.core import setup

import py2exe

setup(
    scripts=["art.py"]
)


and here is my batch file

c:\python23\python setup.py py2exe -pPIL --packages=encodings


Thanks
Mike





From dallasm at aiinet.com  Fri Mar 12 12:22:53 2004
From: dallasm at aiinet.com (Mahrt, Dallas)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:22:53 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
Message-ID: <AD59566A9D83864F871AE2E52503064001134921@aimail.aiinet.priv>

This is not a good idea, even if it were possible. What is preventing
somebody from importing this script in Python from the CLI and extracting
the root password? Even if the decrypt logic is in the code, and only the
.pyc is accessible, the decompile logic would still be easily accessible.

What is preventing you from prompting for the password on execution?

---
Dallas S. Mahrt	


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bart Nessux [mailto:bart_nessux at hotmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:12 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: root password in a .py script
> 
> 
> I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is 
> there a way to
> encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing 
> the file, but
> when the sting is used it's decoded? For example:
> 
> pass = "#$%^&@*#&*$^@"
> instead of:
> pass = "root-password"
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bart
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  6 09:30:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:30:04 -0500
Subject: Newby Question: Generic Database Object Interface Needed
In-Reply-To: <1Rc2c.2356$u92.1037@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
References: <1Rc2c.2356$u92.1037@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Zhl2c.2277$G3.18356@localhost>

kbass wrote:
> I have two databases, Postgres and Oracle, and I would like to be able to
> use the same syntax to access and retrieve data in the same way. Is there a
> generic database object interface (module) that will allow me to access and
> retrieve data the same way? I would prefer one that is well supported.

Does this help? :  http://www.python.org/topics/database/

-Peter


From usenet at ixokai.net  Sun Mar 14 00:17:38 2004
From: usenet at ixokai.net (Ixokai)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:17:38 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
	<o_04c.2682$G3.21117@localhost>
	<5u9150peaueqmsrt5tppc08mro5q8acebu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1057qnntt6tjb4@corp.supernews.com>

> >This is all semantics, probably, but I don't believe you can make a
> >strong case that yield is an ill-chosen name.
>
> It's not ill chosen, just arbitrary.  I would be just as happy with
> 'rtn' or 'tsr' or any fanciful word that doesn't convey a _wrong_
> meaning.

To me, it conveys the perfect meaning. All it takes is having the
right mindset. You yield in traffic; you let someone go along before
you and then continue on.. that's what generators are, perfectly.

Yes, only one definition of 'yield' fits Python's usage-- but that's
infinately better then "Like return, but different".

What happens if you have a second type of 'return-like' statement?

@@return? @return@?

If someone is learning a language, they'll always run into keywords
and such that they do not understand. So they have to look them
up. No big deal. Afterwards, when they get the mindset of how to
think in them, it sticks-- they can then glance down and remember,
and /know/, what's going on.

It becomes again pseudocode-that-works: 'yield X' means, 'give
off X and let the control continue on its way, i'll be continued later'.

However, something like '@return X' wouldn't accomplish the same
result, in my opinion. For some people it'll be too easy to just ignore
the punctuation and think 'return', when its very important that they
not think 'return' in this case. For others, it'll always catch their eyes
and make them pause and think-- which variant of return is this?

A new keyword in this instance is perfect: its totally different, and
totally
seperate from the behavior of 'return', so someone can't just pass it
by with assumptions of 'return', and once they learn what it is, it sticks.

--Stephen




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Mar 15 03:55:32 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 00:55:32 -0800
Subject: Question concerning Unicode and or Shift-JIS
References: <4050f410$0$40740$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403150055.7dd24a6f@posting.google.com>

Antioch <sesshomaru_2k3 at SPAMTRAP.hotmail.com> wrote:

> However, when getting user input, the input it natively sent to the
> program in Shift-JIS encoding.

You can change this by setting the encoding of the web page containing
the <form>, either by having the server send an HTTP response header
'Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8', or by including a
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />
element inside the <head>.

If you don't set the charset like this, the browser will have to guess
what encoding to use, which in the absence of any properly-encoded
Japanese text on the form page could be anything, and may default to
different encodings dependent on the user's locale.

[Detour:]

The browser will send the form submission in the specified encoding,
*unless* the user deliberately goes to the browser's encodings menu
and selects a different one. Unlikely, but possible. The 'proper' way
around this is to write <form accept-charset="utf-8">, which should mean
that the browser should send the submission as UTF-8 regardless of the
encoding of the page containing the form. Unfortunately Internet
Explorer on Windows is broken and stupid, and prefers to use this as
a 'backup' encoding: it will use the current page's encoding for fields
which can be encoded in that, and the accept-charset encoding on
fields that contain characters that can't be encoded in the current
page's charset. Thus you can get a mixture of encodings with absolutely
no way to determine which is which.

The IE-compatible but utterly hideous workaround is to avoid
accept-charset and include a hidden field with name '_charset_' in the
form. IE will fill it in with the currently selected encoding when the
form is submitted. Whether it is worth doing this is debateable.

[end detour.]

> the problem is I don't know how to "decode" the UTF and then recode
> it into Shift-JIS so that I can compare the dictionary values

I'd definitely recommend storing the dictionary values as Unicode strings
rather than trying to compare encoded versions.

> I don't know how to decode any of the codecs. I'm sure theres just
> some simple function call

Yep:

  characterString= unicode(jisString, 'shift_jis')
  utfString= characterString.encode('utf-8')

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 31 14:32:02 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:32:02 +0200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com><roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com><58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com><c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04><c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04><mailman.120.1080660180.20120.python-list@python.org><temac.74866$cx5.61050@fed1read04>
	<tyfzn9x1d0l.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.181.1080748182.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406b1cdf$0$125$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>What's funny and sad about this is that I would not be surprised to
>discover, after some experience, that prototypes fit my brain better than
>the class model.  Too bad he could not allow himself to see the satiric
>humor of my hint.

Look at the bright side Terry :-) Last time he got irritated by
someone he wrote a completely new language and even apologized for his
behavior in the end!

Anton


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Tue Mar 16 04:18:13 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:18:13 +0000
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a3hd50dg0v2q82i3st9dpm266sf8qrhffk@4ax.com>

On 15 Mar 2004 21:15:47 -0800, alessandro_valerio at msn.com (pius)
wrote:
> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
> of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
> programming.

Best place to start is the non programmers section of the Python
web site. Despite the fact that I wrote one, I don't think most
folks need a book to learn the basics, there are plenty of web
tutors for that. Pick one you like and work your way through it.

(If you do want a beginners tutor then feel free to buy mine
though! :-)

More useful is to get an intermediate level book like Programming
Python by Lutz.

Also a concise referce like "Python in a Nutshell" or 
"Python Essential Reference" is handy.

Also you might find some of the more general programming books
useful too:

The Pragmatic Programmer by Hunt & Thomas is good
The Practice of Programming by Kernighan & Pike is another

Finally all serious programmers should read 
Code Complete by McConnell.

And if you really want to understand the underlying theory try
Structure & Iterpretation of Computer Procrams(SICP) by Abelman
and Sussman - a classic which is also online:
http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

That should keep you busy! :-)

HTH,

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Tue Mar 16 04:06:28 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 01:06:28 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<c34ebq$9kv$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403160106.63a53169@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c34ebq$9kv$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> I'll guarantee that it won't be fixed for 2.4.  This subject has come up
> many times long before iterators were introduced, and the answer has
> always beent the same: if you want to mutate, make a copy or make *very*
> sure that your mutations don't muck the loop.

If this was hashed out so completely before iterators, I wonder if
iterators might make a different solution more plausible.  Such a
solution wouldn't have been considered since then, because, well, it
has already been hashed out.

> >I hope this isn't in conflict with any previous irrevocable
> >pronouncements.  b-)
> 
> Your hope is in vain.  ;-)

It usually is; still I hope.  b-)

Jess


From glaine at free.fr  Mon Mar  8 05:29:13 2004
From: glaine at free.fr (glaine)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 02:29:13 -0800
Subject: Start
Message-ID: <c67b7192.0403080229.51ed73ea@posting.google.com>

Start 
Hello
I'm new in python. I try to make a script like
a sub routine which save the win registry each
morning after the win98's running. I have a lot of
problems to concretize my idea about the moment
when my script start. How to do to run automatically 
my script each morning after the win98's running
I will accept any suggestions or ideas. I found 
some elements with win32events and handle, but I don't
understand very well what handle means in python. 
Is there anybody to explain
me ? Thank all for your help.
Save Registry.py
import _ winreg
t=file('c:\\windows\\bureau\\toto.txt','w')
p=_winreg.SaveKey(Keys x, Keys y,'t')
Guillaume


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 23 16:33:10 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:33:10 -0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org><1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<1080074644.4365.12.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>
	<mailman.301.1080072433.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1061b8mkui8n922@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.301.1080072433.742.python-list at python.org>,
Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> (previously all the programs were written in java)
>> "if one of our programmers changes a method in a class/interface, we
>> immediately will know about it, because the next program-rebuild will
>> simply fail. but if we would use python, we wouldn't find it out".
>
>Say "Bzzt! Wrong!" :) In C++ this is a no brainer because the compiler simply
			.
		[Dave continues with
		his perfectly rendered
		follow-up]
			.
			.
>everybody should avoid. I would ask them to cite a real world example rather
>than hypothetical "what-ifs" because the refactoring of an interface is almost
>always accompanied by a semantic change to the interface, and again the
>compiler can't really help there.
>
>-Dave
>
>

Here's the part that scares me:  I've seen enough to suspect
that, in some shops, this line of reasoning is *not* hypo-
thetical--that is, that the locals truly do conceive of
refactoring as fiddling around with signatures and reacting
to overt compiler messages.  Brutalities are committed in
the name of IT that admit no other explanation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From lucat at despammed.com  Tue Mar 16 13:08:52 2004
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca T.)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:08:52 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.16.13.30.19.189891@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<pan.2004.03.16.13.30.19.189891@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <c37fua$24tag4$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> Be carefull, there are a many things you need to
> make it secure. Maybe suexec of apache can be
> used as template.

Where can i find its sources?

Thanx,
    Luca


From fouff at visitmail.com  Wed Mar 31 10:41:19 2004
From: fouff at visitmail.com (Fouff)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 07:41:19 -0800
Subject: Modifying Entry size
Message-ID: <8b352861.0403310741.78ba64e9@posting.google.com>

Hello.

I'm trying to modify manually the size of a tkinter Entry .
Especialy the width (in pixel for my calc), not in character as the
width property of the widget.

Thanks for help.


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 28 12:24:36 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:24:36 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ZPD9c.340$1A6.121050@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <5TD9c.343$1A6.122185@news20.bellglobal.com>

That last one had an error, here it is again:

[publish_to_web]
def foo(self):
         {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
          url:"/cgi-bin/directory/directory" }
         "doc string"
         body






From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Fri Mar  5 09:44:44 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:44:44 -0500
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
References: <4041DE9C.9070201@pusspaws.net>
Message-ID: <4048925C.1030505@cfl.rr.com>

I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
stored on disk.

the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
name appear in the browser DL window.

i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
have real name show in File Save dialog.

in essence i want to push the file name to the browser

Fred








From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar  6 04:56:27 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:56:27 +0100
Subject: import vs from module import : any performance issue?
References: <3Rc2c.20653$qA2.1452238@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<c2c2r9$p5t$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4049a051$0$3886$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Quote from Dive Into Pyhton
"""
When a line of code asks for the value of a variable x, Python will search
for
that variable in all the available namespaces, in order:

 1. local namespace - specific to the current function or class method. If
the
    function defines a local variable x, or has an argument x, Python will
use
    this and stop searching.
 2. global namespace - specific to the current module. If the module has
defined
    a variable, function, or class called x, Python will use that and stop
    searching.
 3. built-in namespace - global to all modules. As a last resort, Python
will
    assume that x is the name of built-in function or variable.
"""
when you use: from x import y you import into the local namespace. so in
theory it could by a speedup to use this form. if you use import x you will
have to address the functions by there namespace (which equals the name of
x), so no speedup will be gotten there.



"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c2c2r9$p5t$03$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Pierre Rouleau wrote:
>
> > Q1:
> > I'v seen mentionned in some post that there could be performance issues
> > of using:
> >
> > from moduleX import whatever
> >
> > as opposed to:
> >
> > import moduleX
> >
> > What would be the performance issues?
>
> You wouldn't put the import statement into an inner loop, so why bother.
> Every module is imported once (there is a pathological exception) and
> subsequent imports are essentially lookups in sys.modules.
> However, moduleX.whatever() is one dictionary lookup slower than the bare
> whatever(), and *that* might occur in an inner loop.
>
> >
> > Q2:
> > What happens when names from moduleX are imported using the first former
> > syntax in some modules of an application and imported using the latter
> > syntax in other modules of the same application?
>
> Nothing. You can even mix both forms in the same module:
>
> >>> import os
> >>> from os import walk
> >>> os.walk
> <function walk at 0x40279a74>
> >>> walk
> <function walk at 0x40279a74>
> >>>
>
> > Q3:
> > It's my understanding that using the "from moduleX import whatever"
> > syntax in moduleA, all of moduleX code will run and only the name
> > "whatever" will be made available to moduleA.  What are the benefit of
> > using this syntax then, is it only the fact that you don't have to type
> > the "moduleX." prefix in moduleA?
>
> A tiny speedup. The disadvantage being pollution of the importing module's
> namespace. Not as bad as from module import *, though.
>
> Peter




From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 17 14:33:29 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:33:29 -0600
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Brett C. wrote:

> ---------------------------------------------------
> Do we really need mutability for exceptions groups?
> ---------------------------------------------------
> The question was raised as to why ``except (TypeError, ValueError):``
> is acceptable while ``except [TypeError, ValueError]:`` (in other
> words why use tuples to group exceptions for an 'except' statement and
> not allow lists).  The question was in relation as to whether it had
> something to do with a tuple's immutability.
> 
> Guido said it all had to do with a visual way of grouping tuples and
> nothing to do with what the underlying container was.  If he had it to
> do over again he would rather change it so that ``except TypeError,
> ValueError:`` did the same thing as above.  That change would
> alleviate the common error of expecting the above behavior using that
> syntax but instead getting the exception instance bound to ValueError.
>  But the change is not planned for any time in the future since Guido
> has no proposal on how to change the syntax to handle the assignment
> to a local variable for the exception instance.

Generalizing it to any iterable would be nice, especially with 
situations where you have the exception types stored in a variable:

catch = (TypeError, ValueError, MyValueError)
...
try:
     #Body
except catch:
     #Error code

If you need to dynamically add exceptions, it may be easier to use a 
list, and using general iterables opens up all sorts of fun with 
generators. (Is time savings all that big of deal here?)

As far as Python3000 syntax, has anyone suggested 'as' abuse?

try:
     #Body
except TypeError, ValueError as e:
     #Error code

I'm not sure if this is compatable with the parser or not, but it looks 
nice ...

-Rocco


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 10:53:06 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:53:06 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.207.1079881172.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3i5nb$pgl$1@panix3.panix.com>	<c3k8m2$28mtia$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.207.1079881172.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3kddr$27gt2e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> The fundamental difference between Java and Python in this regard is that
> the JVM must absolutely be part of the defined API since it is delivered
> separate from the compiler.  

Absolutely untrue.  The JVM is part of the Java /spec/, but has nothing to do
with the /API/ (e.g. Java 2 Standard Edition) that application programmers use.

> Whoever does this stuff probably has to go to great lengths to preserve 
 > compatibility.  This is not the case for the Python VM, since a new version
 > is delivered with each distribution.

I don't get what you're trying to say here.  The JVM has changed very little
(or not at all) over the different Java versions.  Neither the incremental
feature-additions to the Java compiler nor modifications to the Java platform
APIs require any great effort to 'maintain compatibility' between them and the
JVM.  Even fairly major additions like generics (i.e. Pizza compiler) do not
sound like they require ripping out great chunks of guts and replacing them with
something totally new.

If anything though, what you're saying might apply more to Jython.  New Python
language features tend to be more radical / come faster than new Java features
but the Jython authors will have to implement these on a JVM that cannot morph
to accomodate such new features.  Still, Jython's continued development proves
that it is possible implement Python's features on a fixed underlying VM.

The only reason I can think of for wanting CPython's VM to remain undocumented /
not-nailed-down is because we want to make it easier / give more freedom to the
language designers to implement the plumbing for new Python features.


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Mar 22 10:41:20 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:41:20 -0500
Subject: Reload() Confusion
References: <u4l450hv7isekpk09upvhcpi3b18m3p8a7@4ax.com>
	<VvMXAls/K7NM089yn@the-wire.com>
	<g2qs50hvt1p0n21icb0jka43cct9mfah0q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <gkwXAls/Kv5Y089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <g2qs50hvt1p0n21icb0jka43cct9mfah0q at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>I like this code example because it gets the student to think about
>how modules are kept in memory.  Showing the module's dictionary
>before and after a reload is great.  I'll try to integrate it into my
>presentation, perhaps in place of the second example, which can now
>become an exercise.  Thanks.

Use it in good health.

        Mel.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Mar  1 19:49:46 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:49:46 -0800
Subject: Using the __builtins__ module to assign new global variables
In-Reply-To: <7c160399.0403011348.779cc5c8@posting.google.com>
References: <7c160399.0403011348.779cc5c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4043e2cf$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Opinder wrote:

> Are there any side effects in assigning new variables to the
> __builtins__ module for the purpose of exposing variables to imported
> modules.

Generally, Guido frowns at you very sternly.  Also, you could
cause a disaster if there is a conflict between your idea of what
should be a global and some other module's idea.  You will be in
big trouble if a builtin is added that you over-write (actually
a form of the same problem).

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Mar 23 09:36:57 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 15:36:57 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Andrew Wilkinson <ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk> writes:

> assaf__ at walla.com wrote:

> I find the lack of static type checking to cause some bugs to hide
> in my code that in other languages would be found at compile time.

I feel honour-bound to point out that citing static typing (explicit
static typing, in particular) as a means of creating more correct
programs, to be one of the greatest contemporary myths of software
engineering.

Static typing makes it easier for compilers to produce more efficient
code. That is the only advantage that static typing offers. 

I am of the opinion that (explicit) static typing contributes to the
bugginess of programs.


From wweston at att.net  Mon Mar 29 10:46:45 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:46:45 GMT
Subject: Wierd problem with replace
In-Reply-To: <c49g08$r69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c49g08$r69$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <FxX9c.63435$PY1.1159923@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Florian Lindner wrote:
> Hello,
> I've this code:
> 
>     print "Login1:", login
>     login.replace("@","_")
>     print "Login2:", login
> 
> Which produces this output:
> 
>     Login1: tester at root
>     Login2: tester at root
> 
> Why is Login2 still tester at root and not tester_root? I thought that I've
> replaced the @ with _??
> 
> Thx,
> Florian
> 

Florian,

 >>> x = "tester at root"
 >>> y = x.replace("@","_")
 >>> print y
tester_root



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 21:30:15 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 18:30:15 -0800
Subject: Equality and identity
References: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403301830.30bc4f76@posting.google.com>

Marius Bernklev <mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message news:<3cfvfkmi337.fsf at nelja.ifi.uio.no>...
> In python, it seems like immutable objects are equal under both
> equality and identity:
> 
> >>> 5 == 5
>  True
> >>> 5 is 5
>  True
> >>> "hei" == "hei"
>  True
> >>> "hei" is "hei"
> True

>>> x = 100
>>> x is 100
False


From webmaster at keyphrene.com  Tue Mar 23 02:05:28 2004
From: webmaster at keyphrene.com (webmaster at keyphrene.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:05:28 GMT
Subject: pyOpenSSL is dead or not?
Message-ID: <405fe1b6$0$298$636a15ce@news.free.fr>


The last pyOpenSSL has been released in September 2002.
pyOpenSSL is dead or not?


From timr at probo.com  Mon Mar 15 01:52:27 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:52:27 -0800
Subject: random.random - Interpreter works, Script doesn't?
References: <105ac9sm9lvij49@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vjka50dllikgbrmnel0b55ldrsq95tsvga@4ax.com>

"Bill" <> wrote:

>Hello,
>If I type the following code directly into the interpreter, it works. If I
>run it from a script, it generates the following error. Can someone help?
>Thanks!
>
>------------------------
>
>import random
>
>for i in range(10):
>    x = random.random()
>    print x
>
>------------------------
>
>TypeError: 'module' object is not callable

I'll wager money that your script actually says this:

  import random

  for i in range(10):
      x = random()
      print x

...which IS trying to call a module.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From assaf__ at walla.com  Mon Mar 22 06:11:08 2004
From: assaf__ at walla.com (assaf__ at walla.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:11:08 +0200
Subject: Python for large projects
Message-ID: <200403221111.i2MBB8B18186@omail3.walla.co.il>

Hello,

I am beginning to work on a fairly large project and I'm considering to use python for most of the coding, but I need to make sure first that it is reliable enough.

I need to make sure that I won't have surprises when my program runs on different real-world systems. So far I wrote a little script with python using urllib, and on one computer it failed completely because of a problem in getting the proxies (in my opinion this is a bug). How likely are such things to happen and how often, and to what extent are they more prevalent in python in comparison to C++?

If python is indeed suitable for large projects, how common is it to actually use if for such purposes? Is there perhaps a list of examples of real projects using python?

Thanks,

Bob

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From elmlish at netscape.net  Wed Mar  3 15:53:18 2004
From: elmlish at netscape.net (elmlish)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:53:18 GMT
Subject: Efficiently test for positive re.match then use the result?
References: <mailman.2.1078341384.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20040303125347291-0800@news.qwest.net>


> What's wrong with:
> 
> alist =3D ['boo','hoo','choo']
> for line in alist:
>     m =3D re.match('choo', line)
>     if m:
>         doSomethingWith(m.groups(0))
> 
> 
> FuManChu
> 
> 

Nothing, really.. I was just hoping I could do that in even fewer steps.  
You know, the search for eternally overreaching brevity...

Thanks though.


-- 

~elmlish~


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar 12 20:45:08 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:45:08 -0800
Subject: put your money where your mouse is, or why I prefer Spanish to 
 English: a proposal
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
	<mailman.308.1079092513.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<xqxznal3ngm.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <405267A4.18109F72@alcyone.com>

Harry George wrote:

> Hmmm.  How many Pythonistas have studied Esperanto?  Looks like 2 of
> us so far.  The Esperanto headquarters is in Netherlands, so there is
> a suspicious confluence of geography with Python.

Sxajnas, ke la Pitonistoj kiuj povas paroli Esperanton nombrigxas
almenaux kvar aux kvin.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ When you talk to her / Talk to her
    -- India Arie


From likwoka at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 14:51:06 2004
From: likwoka at yahoo.com (Alex Li)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 11:51:06 -0800
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
Message-ID: <ea2ed14f.0403011151.406ab5ec@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I would like to create a quiz show game for play in a party.  The
physical setup would probably be a big screen where everyone (players
and host) can see, which shows a question, and a multiple choice of
answer.  The player, with a client computer and keyboard in front,
will press a key to pick an answer.  The client program, will then
send the player's choice through the wire to the server program.  The
server program will validate the player's answer and the one that is 
correct and fastest will get a point.  Then we go on to the next
questions...etc.

Some more specific requirements:
1) the programm will probably run on some windows machines
2) need unicode support (ie. questions and answers will be shown in
Chinese)
3) the display will be a full screen display (ie, no window's toolbar
or taskbar shown)

My current thinking is:
1) Use twisted for the networking code
2) Use wxpython for the screen display

My questions are:  
Does anyone have any recommendation of what frameworks/libraries to
use?  I am kind of worry about mixing all these libraries/frameworks
together for them to play nicely... Would pygame help simplify?

Thanks a lot,
Alex


From python at apocalyptech.com  Mon Mar  8 18:26:39 2004
From: python at apocalyptech.com (CJ Kucera)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:26:39 -0600
Subject: optparse variable parsing?
Message-ID: <20040308232639.GB11572@unisrv.net>

Hello, list!

I'm wondering if it's possible to have an option with optparse function
as either a true/false option, or optionally use a supplied value when
it's provided.

For example, let's say that I'm writing a util to add a user to some
system.  By default, the program would assign a random password:

> $ adduser.py
> Assigned password: <blah>

If the user specifies "-p", the program would prompt for a password
instead:

> $ adduser.py -p
> Pass:
> Confirm:

And then it'd be great to be able to pass in a hashed value and have
the program use that instead:

> $ adduser.py -p\$1\$KgM/m2Ys\$.o0sbvwHddeKMCKJdfcMJ0

Is something like that possible with optparse?

Thanks!

-CJ

-- 
WOW: Kakistocracy        |  "The ships hung in the sky in much the same
apocalyptech.com/wow     |    way that bricks don't." - Douglas Adams,
python at apocalyptech.com  |     _The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar  4 06:30:28 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 06:30:28 -0500
Subject: Especialized generator
References: <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2740k$j7v$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6 at 4ax.com>,
Boogie El Aceitoso  <frr149 at telefonica.net> wrote:
>
>I want to write a generator that specializes on os.walk. It should
>yield only certain kinds of files.
>
>What's the best way of doing this? How do you save the state on the
>base generator?

You don't.  You write another generator that yields appropriate results
from calling os.walk().  Chaining generators is *wonderful*.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 19 08:18:39 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:18:39 -0500
Subject: services
In-Reply-To: <mailman.153.1079691382.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <cft6c.18768$qK1.668556@weber.videotron.net>
	<mailman.153.1079691382.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0qudndWnJMqybsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>

John Hazen wrote:

> try:
> 
> % nohup file.py &
> 
> It redirects the output (and stderr) to ./nohup.out, and prevents the
> HUP signal from being sent to the process when you log out.

Interesting!

Note, from "info nohup", that it reduces the process' priority (i.e. 
increases the priority value by 5), and can in some cases not actually 
run the command at all.

Still, another interesting tidbit for the toolbox.

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 11 12:01:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:01:57 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <o_04c.2682$G3.21117@localhost>

David MacQuigg wrote:

> 'yield' is a little closer to the intent, but again, to most new users
> it probably means something more like 'give way' or 'acquiesce', the
> opposite of 'resist'.  If you had never seen 'yield' used as it is now
> in Python, and your first encounter with generator functions was when
> you saw @return, would you not think "Ah yes, a modified return.", and
> would that not be closer to reality than whatever you might associate
> with the word 'yield'?

No!  The "give way" meaning is _much_ closer to what is going on than 
"modified return", in my way of looking at it.  Return winds up the call 
stack and just happens to include a result value.  Yield temporarily 
"gives way" but leaves the stack frame in place, available for 
resumption at a later time.  You could say that the result value is 
incidental, in the return case, while the permanent transfer of context 
is the key thing.  Just the opposite in the case of yield, and therefore 
much different from a "modified return".

This is all semantics, probably, but I don't believe you can make a 
strong case that yield is an ill-chosen name.

-Peter


From bob at redivi.com  Mon Mar  8 10:58:17 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:58:17 -0500
Subject: Socket Receive Buffer
References: <f8a2c52d.0403070941.2fd4c7c7@posting.google.com>
	<404c3419$0$63629$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <2004030810581743658%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-08 03:51:38 -0500, John Burton <john.burton at jbmail.com> said:

> christofer wrote:
> 
>> I am writing a small IRC type server. I also have a small test client
>> for obvious reasons. My problem is that when receiving input from the
>> server, my client sometimes ends up with two messages in the same
>> input buffer, which obviously causes problems. Anybody know why it is
>> doing this?
> 
> It's the way that sockets work.
> They are just a stream of bytes.
> You *might* read the whole message you sent in one go, or you might get 
> 60% of the message in one read and 40% in the next, or you might be two 
> messages together, or any other cominbation.
> 
> Often you'll get each message seperately when testing on a low load 
> local network but get different results over the internet.
> 
> You need to find the end of the messages yourself, and remember that a 
> single read might not return the whole of the messasge.
> 
> Yes it's a pain but that's how it works.

And this is exactly why you can and should use a higher level 
abstraction, like Twisted or at least medusa/asyncore.

-bob



From nospam at nowhere.hu  Mon Mar 29 03:13:19 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.hu (Miklós)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:13:19 +0200
Subject: Where to offer simple apps
References: <c46tob$bkl$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <c47f0c$56b$1@namru.matavnet.hu>

Sourceforge? Savannah?
or c.l.p ? :)

Or have a look around at www.python.org ..
then decide if you like pypi or Starship, etc.

Pm

"Christian von Essen" <christian at mvonessen.de> wrote in message
news:c46tob$bkl$1 at online.de...
> Hi all
>
> I've written a little .ini fileeditor, neither important nor good enough
> to become an own project, but for me important enough to want to get
> some feedback, as it is my first more or less sensible python
> application. Where is the best/a good place to offer this code and ask
> for feedback.
>
> Well, it seems, that I already offer my code here ;)
>
> The application consists of 442 lines in 2 files. I use Tkinter and my
> own ini-parser because I wanted to learn how to parse such a simple
format.
>
> Christian von Essen




From hufman at cobalty.com  Sun Mar  7 00:26:32 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 00:26:32 -0500
Subject: Sending binary data over CGI
References: <Xns94A1D65D2B736GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<onod401p4rjbe9kuu10q6518l93ds7rks3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94A5F27CA6E69GaylordOfKewaskum@209.242.86.10>



>   import msvcrt
>   ...
>   msvcrt.setmode( stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY )

Now, what would I do if I want to do the same in Unix/Linux?

--Walter Huf--


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar 16 14:18:39 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:18:39 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195 at posting.google.com>,
 srijit at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hello,
> I would like to know the definition of type safe and whether Python
> can be considered as a type safe language. Similarly are Java, C# or
> C++ type safe?
> 
> Regards,
> Srijit

You tell me what you mean by "type safe", and I'll tell you if those 
languages meet that definition.

C++ and Java both have the concept of declaring variables to hold a 
certain type of data.  I don't know anything about C#, but I'll assume I 
can lump it into the C++/Java camp.

Python on the other hand, carries the type information along with the 
data, not with the variable (container) that holds the data.

Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string 
"four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it.  Oddly enough, Java 
(in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at automagic 
polymorphism) will let you add them.  No clue what C# does.

Which is type safe and which isn't?  Well, I think we're back to my 
first statement, otherwise we quickly get into playing three blind men 
and the elephant.


From michael at foord.net  Fri Mar 26 03:49:50 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 00:49:50 -0800
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
References: <mailman.194.1079807509.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403220021.db39215@posting.google.com>
	<c3tjon$2c6trb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403260049.454a1d4d@posting.google.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:<c3tjon$2c6trb$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > So I'm currently just searching for
> > the longest word - KirbBase then returns the full *text* of each song
> > containing that word... and I'm just checking each song to see if it
> > has the other words :-)
> 
> If you need to do a lot of searches of this kind, you might
> find it worthwhile to build an index indicating which songs
> each word occurs in.

Hmmmm...... possibly. It seems a shame to store a database with all
the songs in *and* build a full index.

For this project, the solution I have is fine. I may well need to look
at an indexer for another one soon though.

Thanks.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 16:55:00 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:55:00 GMT
Subject: Need advice on choosing skills.
References: <Pu47c.69630$u_5.47406@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<nm97c.37843$PY.23041@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
	<umi7c.31116$1r6.23633@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Um28c.39224$PY.34934@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Randall Smith <randall at tnr.cc> wrote:
> Funny you said that.
>
> I chose Postgresql about a year ago to use at work for several projects 
> and have never looked back.
>
> I started working with wxPython about 2 months ago and like it for the 
> same reasons.
>
> I built a website using Webware.
>
> I'm looking for a solution for tying together PHP to a python backend. 
> xmlrpc, soap , corba maybe.  Might twisted be good for this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Randall

I believe it would be. I'm only at the early learning & experimenting
stage of learning Twisted, so I can't comment in depth, but here's their
howto for doing XML-RPC and/or SOAP in Twisted, and the code looks nice
and simple:

    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/howto/xmlrpc

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From qp at al.net  Sun Mar 14 22:29:08 2004
From: qp at al.net (Qp)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:29:08 -0500
Subject: Seeking advice on GUI code architecture
Message-ID: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>

Hi, I've got a generic coding architecture question about an application I'm
developing.  Given that I've never developed anything quite like this before
(especially not in Python), I'd appreciate any pointers that you can give
me.

The app is a network client written using Twisted and Tkinter.  The clients
will connect to a server, communicate via public & private chat, and also
play simple games.

My problem is this:  how do you keep your GUI code seperate from as much
underlying code as possible?  As I begin, I find myself adding a lot of
intermediate code (not Tkinter, but not Twisted either) to the GUI class,
and it's beginning to clutter things up.  It really seems as if I should
have a GUI class, a network class, and some separate way of communicating
between them... but I can't seem to visualize the structure in my mind.

If anyone has tips, docs, or examples, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks a lot.





From rajarshi at presidency.com  Sat Mar  6 14:42:54 2004
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:42:54 -0500
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
References: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
	<404a1c35_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.06.19.42.53.98408@presidency.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:44:47 +0000, simon place wrote:

> Rajarshi Guha wrote:
>> Hi, 
>>  I've written some code that takes a N lists of numbers (corresponding to
>> axes) and generates a list of grid points (N dimensional grid) for the
>> supplied axes. So as an example say my two axes are defined as
>> 
>> v1 = [1,2,3]
>> v2 = [1,2,3]
>> 
>> My code will return to me a list of points: 
>> 
>> (1,1), (1,2), (1,3) ....(3,1), (3,2), (3,3)
>> 
> 
> [[a,b] for a in v1 for b in v2]
> 
> 
>> and so on. For 3 axes, I would obtain 27 points and so on.
>> I've included the code below.
> 
> 
> [[a,b,c] for a in v1 for b in v2 for c in v3]
>
Thanks very much - it speeded it up significantly



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 14:40:11 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:40:11 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jvfu50tt5eoshgtugi5bdsniq8tkieghhc@4ax.com>

On 22 Mar 2004 11:25:01 -0800, artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR) wrote:

>Just done a quick check:
>
>$ find /lib/python2.3/ -name "*.py" -exec egrep
>"(class|static)method\W" {} ';' | wc --lines
>     49
>
>Not all of them are calls, and all this in 773 *.py files. I guess
>this says something about importance...

Actually, given that support for staticmethod and classmethod is very
recent, it is rather surprising that it appears in that many places.

I wouldn't expect existing libraries to be updated just to make use of
'staticmethod' or whatever. New features mainly get used in new code,
and even then there is the drag factor as people take time to adopt
them.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar  7 15:49:07 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:49:07 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>
	<roy-F3D505.13543307032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<71tm409egnua4ncic1siadnk7fi9rqnp8e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-A5F5A9.15490607032004@reader2.panix.com>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> goto allows the code for a state to be fallen into from the top.
> 
> How is this different to the more typical switch-within-loop method?

Not much.  The C switch statement isn't much better than a goto, for 
just that reason :-)

> returning a function pointer to a
> function that is immediately going to call that function pointer,
> you're basically just faking the effect of a goto anyway.

In some respects, you're right.  Certainly, both ways get you the same 
pseudo-random flow of control, but that's inherent in a state machine.  
What the function-per-state approach gets you is modularity.  Each 
function at least has its own namespace and set of local variables. 

To tie this in with the current thread on unit testing, it's also a lot 
easier to test a bunch of little functions than a collection of gotos.  
You said:

> In fact its basically a special case of the state variable method, 
> using the processors IP as the state variable.

That's a very good observation.  Imagine you implemented your state 
machine with gotos.  To test each transition, you need to get the 
machine into the right state before each test by feeding it a sequence 
of inputs which navigates your state graph in the right way.  That's 
complicated and error prone to design (the last thing you want is an 
error-prone test procedure).  If there were many states and edges, it 
would be very slow.  If the state machine is non-deterministic (timing 
dependencies, perhaps), it would be impossible.

Of course, this is all assuming that the logic implemented in each state 
is different enough to require writing individual functions.  Some state 
machines (like those that execute compiled regular expressions) are 
simple enough to be table driven.  With a tabular approach, you get the 
same testability you do with the functional approach; you can set the 
machine to any random state, apply a single input, and see what happens.  
You can't do that with gotos because the state is stored in a place 
that's not exposed at the language level (unless you're writing in 
assembler).


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Mar 26 13:31:00 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:31:00 -0800
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F65@opus.amorhq.net>

calpolynate wrote:
> "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.431.1080255513.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > I think he wanted the output to be lowercase, not just sorted
> > case-insensitively (that's how I read it anyway). Try:
> > 
> > lines = [line.lower() for line in open('unsorted', 'r')]
> > lines.sort()
> > sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> > sorted.writelines(lines)
> > sorted.close()
> 
> Yes Robert,
> 
> That's what I was looking for. Sean's worked too, but it sorted
> without changing uppercase to lowercase, I should have been more
> detailed in what I was trying to do.
> 
> How should I go about creating an exception for changing from upper to
> lower? I.E., if the latter part of a line has a comment (#XYZ) and I
> would like to keep those uppercase, what would be a good way to
> implement that in with the existing code?

That depends on whether you want the entire line to keep its case, or
just the comment. Either way, you need to unpack the list comprehension
(the first line, above) into a normal for loop:

lines = []
for line in open('unsorted', 'r'):
    if not has_comment(line):
        line = line.lower()
    lines.append(line)
lines.sort()
sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
sorted.writelines(lines)
sorted.close()

...the above leaves lines with a comment untouched, and lowercases all
other lines. I leave the definition of has_comment() to you--if you
can't figure that one out, then I'm starting to smell homework, Mr.
Calpoly. ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org
 



From jmeile at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 19 03:44:25 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:44:25 +0100
Subject: Hiding console window
References: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<GKo6c.7942$CJ5.4983@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <405ab2e8$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

If you generate the exe with py2exe, then you could do:

python setup.py py2exe -v -w

Where setup.py is the setup script where you specify the
python imports and your program modules. (see py2exe
documentation). The "-w" option was the option I was
talking before. I don't know if it produces the same
effect of the proposed solution by Otto. With this option,
you won't see a DOS console, however, I don't know if
it will hide the icon on the task bar. Try to call the script
on the "Startup" menu or with the "Scheduled Tasks" of
windows or perhaps you will have to do it from the
registry.

> In response to Peter's question, what I meant when I said hide was to hide
> the console while running the program. Essentially, it would run in the
> background. The application would run, but you wouldn't see any sign of
it.
> In response to Jorgen and Josef, unfortunately it didn't work. Here's the
> code for it. It may be a little messy, but I wasn't aiming for perfection:
>
> import pygame
> import time
>
> def sleep():
>     #Sleep for 5 minutes
>     time.sleep(300)
> def play():
>     #Initialize pygame
>     pygame.init()
>     #Initialize mixer
>     pygame.mixer.init()
>     #Load and play sound1
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/sound1.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play hazards of retreating
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/hazards_of_retreating.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play bring it on
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/bring_it_on.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play freaked by flood
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/freaked_by_flood.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play grunty thirst
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/grunty_thirst.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play joe has lost it
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:/joe_has_lost_it.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play the french grunt
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\the_french_grunt.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play stacker e3 outtake2
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\stacker_e3_outtake2.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play poor running anatomy
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\poor_running_anatomy.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     sleep()
>     #Load and play bring it on
>     pygame.mixer.music.load('C:\bring_it_on.mp3')
>     pygame.mixer.music.play()
>     #Quit playing and close pygame
>     pygame.mixer.quit()
>     pygame.quit()
>
> #Start the program
> play()
>
> You may raise your eyebrows at the filenames, but as I said its a joke I'm
> playing. The sound clips are based off the game Halo. Just fill in your
own
> files instead of mine.




From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 06:33:57 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:33:57 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <tyfd671hq7x.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3snp3$2bbe7o$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd671hq7x.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c3ug36$2brabn$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> If you happen to find it, drop me a line, please. (Don't go too far
> out of your way though ... my stack of interesting things I want to
> read is mostly monotonically growing :-( )

I'll have a look around. I've only skimmed it, it's probably deep in one 
of my monotinically growing stacks. :-)

> You mean "damage limitation" and enabling "primate programming"
> (http://www.newtechusa.com/ppi/main.asp) ?  Yes, that's the whole
> purpose of Java, as far as I can see.

Well, more or less yes.

> Again, difference in philosophy. I assume that I am trying to write
> the best product I can. Writing bad tests is not in my interest. I
> acknowledge that this is probably not the case in most real-life
> situations.
> 
> Conclusion: I'm naively, romantically optimistic about what
> programming is :-)

No disagreement there. :-) We'll see how that changes though, now that 
the bubble has burst, and fewer people are drawn into CS that don't 
really have an interest in it. OTOH we have the outsourcing trend, that 
IMHO will drive programming into a race to the bottom. May you live in 
interesting times and all that...

>>It's interesting to note that Ericsson drew the conclusion that C++
>>was to blaim for the failed billion dollar AXEn project. Of course the
>>choice of language had very little to do with that.
> 
> 
> But that won't deter me from quoting it to all and sundry :-)
> 
> (Do you have a reference to this conclusion ?)

Well, no. While I could probably find an old policy document that stated 
it (God knows there are enough of those), it would be for internal use 
only. Plenty of stuff on the success of Erlang though (at 
http://www.erlang.org) which is dynamically typed, though it's not as 
effective propaganda against C++. (And indicentally, Erlang was once 
forbidden to use for new projects within Ericsson as well, it was *one* 
of the things that drove the opensourcing of Erlang. That policy has 
been lifted. In that case it was the old "You're too successful, we need 
to be able to bring people in from the street to do this, we don't need 
no stinking experts.")

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Wed Mar  3 08:40:43 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 05:40:43 -0800
Subject: python + Xml + GnuCash
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0403030540.1ccbc9e5@posting.google.com>

GnuCash -- popular accounting s/w is developed with c+Gtk+XML.
if i wanna develope application like gnuCash which handles flat file
database ::

1.weather it is wise decision to develope in python ? which is
prefered GUI from wxPython, PyGTK ? and Why ?
Shall i code wxPython in FUNCTIONAL programming way(nON Object
oriented) ?

2.weather i should go with XML or python's flatDB module which handles
flat file databse from python for storing data.

3.how i shold encrypt/decrypt my data which is going to store in
datafiles-- thru pythons..keep in mind that application performance
should b fast6..


From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 24 10:34:36 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:34:36 +0100
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.336.1080136535.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.336.1080136535.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3s9qc$2bebc3$2@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

John Hunter wrote:
> The usual way is to simply reverse the tuple, sort, and then reverse
> back
> 
>   tmp = [ (city, name) for name, city in name_city_list]
>   tmp.sort()
>   name_city_list = [ (name, city) for city, name in tmp]
> 
> This is usually faster than writing a custom comparison func for sort.

The notable exception being when Psyco is applied. I've actually had 
e.g. significantly *faster* runs when applying a custom sort function to 
do a 'reverse' than calling it separately after sorting. Do a run on 
your own data/platform to check what's faster if speed matters. If it 
doesn't I'd do the comparison function as I find that clearer.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Mar 23 09:31:47 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 15:31:47 +0100
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyffzbz63e4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>  > That rather depends on what you mean by "Python-like".
> 
> 
> Oh dear...
> 
> It was not my intention to start this kind of debate,

Debate?

I think a number of us wanted to point out that your question can be
interpreted in many very different ways. We also wanted you to explain
a bit more about what _you_ meant by the words you used, in order to
enable us to give you answers which are more useful to _you_, rather
than writing pages in an attempt to answer a question which you didn't
really meant to ask.

(Or were you referring to the "debate" about whether such requests for
clarification are appropriate? I hope that it is self-evident that
they are.)

> I'm not a troll,

I don't think anyone suggested that you are. _I_ certainly did _not_
mean to imply that you are a troll.

> I actually consider GvR to be something of a minor deity.  :)

Quite an unhealthy attitude, IMHO. If more people realized that GvR is
just a guy who happens to have designed and implemented a rather nice
language, then a some discussions around here would be more
constructive that they are :-)

> I was merely curious if any of you may have known about some
> language currently in development, or some still-young and
> little-known language that was like Python and aiming for something
> like C/C++-ish performance.

Great, so you've identified performance issues as a motivation for
your question ... but we're still a bit hazy on the "like Python"
part :-)

> By compile-to-binary, I meant create a binary executable in native
> machine code that does not involve an interpreter process (source or
> byte-code), and any substantial run-time overhead.  In other words my
> concern, is as always, about speed.

Are you aware that you are slighly contradicting yourself, or at least
unnecessarily constraining your definition of "compile-to-binary"? (I
don't mean to be condescending here, in the slightest.)

My point is, if your concern really is "as always, about speed", why
should you care whether you "create a binary executable"?

For example, if the PyPy project is wildly successful, then the day
will come (I'm optimistically hoping for this to happen before the
next C++ standard comes out :-) when Python itself will compile to
native binary, run faster than C ... all that, I suspect, without
creating an "executable binary". And you couldn't ask for a more
Python-like language than Python itself ... or could you ?

> Concerning Perl/Lisp.  I'm using Python because it is *nothing* like
> those two.  :)

Funny. Here's someone who thinks that Python is rather similar to
Lisp:

In http://paulgraham.com/lispfaq1.html Paul Graham writes:

PG> I like Lisp but my company won't let me use it. What should I do?
PG> 
PG> Try to get them to let you use Python. [...]  semantically
PG> [Python] has a lot in common with Lisp, and has been getting
PG> closer to Lisp over time.

(Cue PP: "No it isn't", etc. etc.)

Are you sure that you are using Python because it is *nothing* like
Lisp?  I bet that if you removed all Python's similarities to Lisp
from the language, then you wouldn't give the language a second look.

> Lisp has good performance, and is a compilable language, I'm aware
> of that, but I just can't handle all the parentheses.  To the
> individual in the other thread who said people complaining about all
> the parentheses in Lisp are being ludicrous, well, just consider
> yourself lucky or superior that you can look at Lisp code for more
> than 30 minutes without getting a headache.  :)

The point is that, if you spend more than 30 minutes looking at Lisp
code without an attitude of "paretheses suck", then you will almost
certainly cease to have any inclination to develop a headache. If you,
subsequently, actually try to edit some Lisp code, then you will
discover that the parentheses are actually help considerably.

The problem most people have is to look at Lisp code without prejudice
for those first 30 minutes. That's the hurdle where most people fall
over.

Still, you might like to take a look at Dylan. It is, essentially, a
Lisp without parentheses.


From lilyth at umich.edu  Fri Mar 19 10:55:23 2004
From: lilyth at umich.edu (Lilith)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 07:55:23 -0800
Subject: Graph Problems (was Re: Is there a map or graph module?)
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
	<c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <75200cbc.0403190755.5765890a@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3dpmp$7r5$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> Lilith wrote:
> > Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
> > which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
> > finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
> > through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
> > would be less parsimonious.
> > Thanks for any suggestions!
> 
> Thank Guido, http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html

That's not working for me. I should have mentioned I tried that, but I
get a slew of these errors:
  
    > File "guidograph.py", line 40, in find_all_paths
    > newpaths = find_all_paths(graph, node, end, path)

    > RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

Guido's example works fine when I use his simple graph. When I plug in
my 9000-node graph, I get those problems even if the nodes are a few
steps away. I think my network is too big for that code.

I imagine there's some kind of recursion limit I can set somewhere,
but it's probably a problem in that the code can't handle larger
graphs. Not only does find_all_paths crash, but so does find_path.


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar 13 09:55:08 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:55:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <c2v3hn$fbg$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040313145508.28591.qmail@web8304.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote: > 
> "Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in>
> wrote in message
> > Anyway, what I want is to force variable
> declaration.
> > In perl we have the "use strict vars" pargma...I
> need
> > something like that...
> 
> For those of us who do not know Perl, and there are
> many, I suspect, on
> this Python newsgroup, that means nothing ;-).
> 
> tjr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Yes. Let me explain. Perl's "strict" pragma makes sure
that you have declared (initialized) a variable before
using it. Nothing more to it.

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Mar 10 00:16:12 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:16:12 +0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<5sbs40l90vpumpp3u72a4259gp83j4mfih@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7ihdwx8eoz.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    Stephen> As a rule, having a program that runs a few milliseconds slower
    Stephen> is preferable to having a maintenance headache. The reason why
    Stephen> gotos, breaks and continues are considered bad style in any
    Stephen> language is because when used inappropriately they routinely do
    Stephen> create maintenance headaches, and because the temptation is to
    Stephen> use them inappropriately.

Everything said above is true for most programming constructs.  You can put
"local variables", "global variables", "dynamic scoping", "functions",
"classes", "exceptions", "checked exceptions", etc., into the above
paragraph, and the paragraph still "make sense".  The worth of a programming
construct is how *good* it is when it is used *appropriately*, not how *bad*
it is when it is used *inappropriately*.

    Stephen> As I mentioned elsewhere, I have used gotos recently but only
    Stephen> once in ten years or so. I have no doubt that there are many
    Stephen> simpler cases where at some time I could have avoided a state
    Stephen> variable or an exception by using a goto, but following a
    Stephen> standard convention has some value in itself and these days the
    Stephen> standard convention is to use a state variable or an exception.

One can likewise use goto in a "standard convention", and indeed that is
what I always do: just like any other person, I fully acknowledge that goto
is horrible when used inappropriately.  But the same can be said to, say,
classes.

    Stephen> These are relatively unusual cases, though. Certainly they pop
    Stephen> up from time to time, but in the mean time you've probably
    Stephen> written tens of loops that didn't need these tricks.

Most people *fear* goto.  They think that "if I use goto, my program is
unclean".  Or "if I use goto now, my program won't be readable tomorrow".
Or simply, "my manager is going to blame me the moment I show my program to
him just because I use goto".  But even though we are under such climate,
once in a while we find that goto actually clean up mess.  I think this
alone means that we should look at the construct again to see whether we
are too critical to it from the beginning.

Of course, this is from the user's point of view.  From the implementation
point of view, that can be another story: one won't want constructs that are
too expensive to implement.  Unconditional jump will remove some
optimization opportunities.  But it is "paid only by those who use it", so I
think it is a fair deal.

Regards,
Isaac.


From eric at zomething.com  Mon Mar  8 03:46:30 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:46:30 -0800
Subject: Gadfly or gadfly or Gadfly.gadfly() or _?
Message-ID: <20040308004630.1096705640.eric@zomething.com>


My interest was piqued enough to try Gadfly, but I find myself struggling to install it, a new problem for this newB.  Not sure if any of this is the distribution's "fault" or just my lack of understanding of Python:

1) I notice there is no py file named "gadfly.py".  How does Python find and define the namespace?
2) I have installed the files in this directory under a Windows XP OS:  C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gadfly
3) "import gadfly", as shown in the docs, returns an ImportError
4) "import Gadfly" does not return any errors.  Is this because of the capitalization of the directory name?

then, following the instructions in the docs:

>>> connection = gadfly.gadfly()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
    connection = gadfly.gadfly()
NameError: name 'gadfly' is not defined

>>> connection=Gadfly.gadfly()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
    connection=Gadfly.gadfly()
TypeError: 'module' object is not callable

Have I somehow mucked up the namespace upon installation?  Am I entering the wrong commands?

Any pointers appreciated.


Eric



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 11 07:55:20 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:20 -0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>

In article <2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>going to help me write some code, I won't have time to study it.  My
>understanding of lambda functions is simply that they are a way to
>squeeze functions into a tight space:
>
>list_of_funcs = [(lambda x: 2**x), (lambda x: 3**x), (lambda x: 4**x)]
>
>If you are not concerned about space, simply use normal defs:
>
>def f2(x): return 2**x
>def f3(x): return 3**x
>def f4(x): return 4**x
>list_of_funcs = [f2, f3, f4]
>
>Is there any other reason in Python to use lambdas?
			.
			.
			.
In fact, *that*'s not a reason.  Part of tribal lore--a true,
documented part, by the way--is that Big Cheese Guido depre-
cates lambdas.  He says they're a mistake, and people shouldn't
be using 'em.  Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named
function; it forces the developer to come up with a name for
the operation, and that's likely to make the code more read-
able (I'm slightly abbreviating the argument here).

Space, in the sense you're using it above, should NOT concern
Pythoneers.  Correctness and clarity of express should.

It pains my sensitivities every time you claim lambdas are
just a way of making functions "small".  Again, I understand
how natural that is from your background.  Around this 
mathematician, 'twould be less distracting to run your finger-
nails down a chalkboard.

I think this ties back to your broader original propositions:
the Python aesthetic assesses little merit for the brevity of
@-anything, and much for the presumed evocativeness of "yield".
An abundance of *good* keywords is a good thing.  That's
definitely not the attitude of all languages.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 17:36:55 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:36:55 -0500
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
In-Reply-To: <8z07c.21193$Bg.9311@fed1read03>
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<JTS6c.15939$Bg.5379@fed1read03>
	<7x1xnodjx2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405BFC92.E1C8C186@alcyone.com> <8z07c.21193$Bg.9311@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <7fadnUgM0Z8VWsHd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Amy G wrote:
> "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
> news:405BFC92.E1C8C186 at alcyone.com...
> 
>>Paul Rubin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Try n.update("help\n").
>>
>>Right.  For Amy:  You can suppress the newline on echo with the -n
>>option, by the way:
>>
> 
> I discovered this last night.
> 
> But what is the true MD5 hash for help?  With or without the newline?

You already had the right hashes for both!  Your Python attempt did
not include a newline, while the shell approach with "echo" did, so you
were comparing apples and oranges.

Paul and Erik gave you the solutions to switch either approach to do 
what the other does...

-Peter


From raims at dot.com  Wed Mar 10 04:33:50 2004
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:33:50 +0100
Subject: [OT] C unit testing suite
References: <c2ml6u$iuq$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <1sgcf5ztxai6k$.14jk2fldxnae8$.dlg@40tude.net>

In data Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:54:53 +0200, Miki Tebeka ha scritto:

> I'm looking for a good C unit testing suite.
> Any recommendations?

Try to look here:
http://www.xprogramming.com/software.htm

-- 
Lawrence
"ain't nothin' but fun."


From jnoller at reference-info.com  Tue Mar 23 12:09:24 2004
From: jnoller at reference-info.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 09:09:24 -0800
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
Message-ID: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>

I'm fairly new to python as a language - and really new to
multithreaded application dev, so please be gentle.

Right now, I have a script that basically looks like:

def foo():

   f = open(file, "r")
   for lines in file.readlines:
        do something
        bar(var, var)
        write stuff to a results file
   file.close
   return

foo()

Now, what the file I am opening contains is a whole bunch of lines
with a filepath in it I need to process with foo() and bar() - each
transaction writes some data to some log files.

I am trying to figure out with how best to approach multithreading
this - I have a definable variable that will determine how many
threads are going, but for now let's choose 5.

With 5 threads - I need each of the 5 threads to read 1 line from the
file (but never the same line) and perform the processing. I never
want the thread count to exceed the 5 threads defined.

Now, I am trying to figure how to do this, and I've been pointed in
the direction of syncronization of the access to the readlines()
function in between threads.

Does anyone have any pointers, or good beginner tutorials on how to
approach this?

-jesse


From halloleo at nospam.myrealbox.com  Tue Mar  2 07:55:00 2004
From: halloleo at nospam.myrealbox.com (leo)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:55:00 +1100
Subject: how to get EXIF data from a jpg
Message-ID: <c22076$1f5b$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi there

how can i get in python EXIF data (particularky the shouuting time) of a 
jpg?

is there a special module around?

thanks, leo


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Mar  3 23:59:15 2004
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:59:15 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Alternative Readline 1.6 (for Python 2.3 and higher) released
Message-ID: <4046B7A3.7040400@newcenturycomputers.net>

I am happy to finally announce the release of a corrected version of
my Alternative Readline for Python.  This new version 1.6 has the
prompt bug fixed thanks to Andre Alves.

WHAT IS IT?

The Alternative Readline for Python provides basic command-line
recall and editing for Python on Win32 platforms.  While Python
2.3 contains this functionality for newer platforms, making my
"alternative" version obsolete, older platforms such as Windows
98 and Me may still need this module.

WHERE IS IT?

You can get the source archive and/or the Python 2.3 installer from
my website:

    http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/readline.html

Thanks again to Andre Alves for taking the time to find this bug!

-- Chris.





From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Sat Mar 27 14:08:00 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:08:00 GMT
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
	<mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list@python.org>
	<106b6ivetpf0bc0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <mqtgj1-ik6.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>smtplib presents a few other, even more marginal issues.  If an
>installed MTA enforces institutional standards (disclaimers, archi-
>ving, ...), smtplib is likely to subvert those.

How so?

The example for smtplib given here
	http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/SMTP-example.html
appears to relay mail through "localhost".  That will typically be
equivalent to using the "installed MTA", right?

--kyler


From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Fri Mar 19 07:47:26 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:47:26 +0100
Subject: Basic Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
References: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
Message-ID: <405aeb3c$0$41757$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

Matthew Bell schreef:

> I've got a conceptual problem to do with inheritance.  
> I'd be grateful if someone could help to clear up my 
> confusion.
> 
> An example.  Say I need a class that's basically a 
> list, with all the normal list methods, but I want a 
> custom __init__ so that the list that is created is 
> [1,2,3] rather than [] (yes, it's a bogus example, 
> but it does to make the point).  Without bothering 
> with inheritance, I could do:
> 
>   class mysimplelistclass:
>     def __init__(self):
>       self.internallist = [1, 2, 3]
> 	
> This would work but I would, of course, need to define 
> methods in "mysimpleclass" to deal with all the various 
> methods that the original list class provides.
> 
> Obviously, the thing to do is to inherit from the list 
> class, override the __init__ method and leave the rest 
> of the normal list class's methods untouched.  So I'd 
> write something like:
> 
>   class myinheritedlistclass(list):
>     def __init__(self):
>       <now what?>
>     
> It's at this point I get confused.  Obviously, I don't 
> use the "self.internallist = [1, 2, 3]" bit as before 
> because I'd then need to override all of the rest of 
> the normal list methods to get them to act on 
> self.internallist.  
> 
> Conceptually, I suppose I need something like:
> 
> <somemagictoken> = superclass.self.__init__([1, 2, 3)]
> 
> but that is, of course, totally ridiculous.
> 
> Essentially, then, if I've inherited another class, how 
> do I create an instance of the class I've inherited such 
> that methods I haven't overrriden will still work, and 
> how can I then refer to that instance from my subclass?  
> I can guess it's something to do with "self" but exactly 
> what, I'm really at a loss.
> 
> Any assistance in my confusion would be gratefully received!
> 
> Regards,
>   Matthew.
> 
>
You were nearly there. You don't need a <magictoken>;
__init__ does not return anything.
Just initialize the baseclass with the things you want:

 >>> class myList(list):
	def __init__(self):
		list.__init__(self, [1,2,3])

		
 >>> m = myList()
 >>> m
[1, 2, 3]
 >>>

Regards,

Ruud



From slackgg at 163.com  Wed Mar  3 21:30:23 2004
From: slackgg at 163.com (slackgg at 163.com)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 18:30:23 -0800
Subject: I can't use cx_Oracle..help me.
Message-ID: <a48d7271.0403031830.1537c787@posting.google.com>

hello all:
  i import cx_Oracle modules will show "Traceback (most recent call l
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in
ImportError: DLL load failed: can't find ..."


From michael at foord.net  Fri Mar  5 07:32:37 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 04:32:37 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078415103.24397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403050432.6cedbe99@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.17.1078415103.24397.python-list at python.org>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > [problems finding Gadfly binaries]
> 
> Alternatively, you could try PySQLite. It's also an embedded database engine in a 
> Python module. And it offers binaries for win32.
> 
> -- Gerhard (PySQLite developer)

Thanks.

In actual fact I'm looking for a pure python solution. I want to be
able to upload python modules to our server without having to worry
about installing/compiling binaries on our Linux server.

I also need to be able to test on my Windoze desktop.

In various references to Gadfly it was refferred to as a 'pure python'
solution... and then the distribution comes with a C file and
pre-built binaries for python up to version 2.2... but not 2.3.

Odd that no-one seems to know anything about Gadfly - which was even
touted for inclusion in the main python distribution.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From Roberto at lupi.an.it  Tue Mar 30 04:17:29 2004
From: Roberto at lupi.an.it (Roberto Lupi)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:17:29 GMT
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1ad359917b473273989713@powernews.libero.it>

In article <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724 at posting.google.com>, 
> So, I reverted my mind to the pre-metaclass functioning mode (which required
> a certain effort) and I wrote a function that takes a class, looks at
> its dictionary, and raises an error if the class overrides an attribute
> which is already defined in the parent classes. The solution works,
> but it is kind of ugly compared to the metaclass solution:
> 
> 1. The metaclass can raise the error *before* the metaclass is created,
>    whereas the function works a posteriori, *after* the overriding is done;
>    if find it to be conceptually unsatisfactory, I don't want to create
>    a class just to throw it away. The alternative is to use a class factory,
>    but then I have just re-invented a metaclass with an ugly call syntax.

I would add the check to a test case for the class.

class XYZTestCase(ZopeTestCase):
	tested_class = XYZ

	def testOverriddenMethods(self):
		check_if_we_are_overriding_names_in(self.tested_class)

> 2. The metaclass can be inherited, so the check is automatic for all children;
>    on the contrary, I have to call the function by hand each time I define
>    a new class. This means writing twice the class name, which is error
>    prone if I later rename the class and I forget to update the function
>    call.

Test cases can be inherited.

class XYZ2TestCase(XYZTestCase):
	tested_class = XYZ2

-- 
Roberto Lupi


From jason at tishler.net  Wed Mar 10 16:44:08 2004
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:08 -0500
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
In-Reply-To: <73iopmskzdhx$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<12dq1z2aca4l2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<mailman.189.1078863299.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<73iopmskzdhx$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <20040310214407.GB1904@tishler.net>

Thorsten,

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 11:30:48PM +0100, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Jason Tishler (2004-03-09 21:18 +0100)
> > Can you be more specific?  We cannot address issues if we do not
> > know what they are.
> 
> I wasn't specific on purpose because this is a Cygwin issue and might
> not interest the Python folks.

Understood, so I will try to answer briefly -- please move this to the
Cygwin list if you would like to continue this discussion.  BTW, hanging
innuendos are not good for archive searchers...

> The readme written by this JT guy states:

Who is this JT guy?  Oh, that's me! :.)

> ,---
> | <WARNING>
> | Note it is *strongly* recommended that users only use rebaseall
> |  unless they *really* know what they are doing or are instructed by
> |  one of the Cygwin developers.
> | </WARNING>
> `---

The above warning is about rebase *not* rebaseall.

> I tried 'rebaseall' and it broke at least zsh

The zsh rebase issue has been resolved (i.e., at least worked around):

    http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2004-02/msg00021.html

> and sshd

I rebase my system *and* run sshd all the time.  I have never noticed
any sshd rebase problems.

> - and these were just the two I noticed immediately. Reemerging zsh
> helped and reemerging openssh would have helped probably, too. But the
> whole rebase might have broken dozens of other Cygwin apps and when I
> use those in a few days and they segfault I might not guess that it
> was the rebaseall and that I just have to reemerge them.

Since I have contributed Cygwin rebase, there have been relatively few
problems:

    Windows Me support (due to MS's broken imagehlp.dll on that platform)
    stripped executable support (only under certain conditions)
    zsh

AFAICT, all of them have been addressed.  IMO, implying rebase can break
dozens of apps seems unwarranted.

> So I modified the script that just the file list was written to a file
> and I deleted all the non Python dlls in the list. It helped with
> IPython but not with idle.

Probably because idle uses Tcl DLLs too.

> On the other hand I still have a working Cygwin installation (because
> I tried the "rebaseall" on a copy) - and this is more worth than a
> working idle but a broken Cygwin environment.

Like I said before, we can't address problems that we don't know exist.
BTW, you can always save a copy of your DLLs (e.g., tar up) before
rebasing...

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6



From rtrocca at inwind.it  Mon Mar 15 08:30:40 2004
From: rtrocca at inwind.it (Riccardo)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 05:30:40 -0800
Subject: Problems wrapping FreeImage with SWIG on win32
Message-ID: <8b4118ee.0403150530.3b0df08e@posting.google.com>

Hello, I'm trying to wrap FreeImage (freeimage.sf.net) through SWIG in
Python on Win32. I'm using VC6sp5.
I've tried both using the static library and the dynamic one, having
the same kind of problems: missing symbols.
I describe you the sequence:
I create a swig file like this one:

%module freeimage
%{
#include "FreeImage.h"
%}
const char *FreeImage_GetVersion();
const char *FreeImage_GetCopyrightMessage();

then I create the source file with:

swig -python -c++ -o pyFreeImage.cpp FreeImage.i

The setup.py file is:

setup(name="pyFreeImage",
version="0.0",
description="wrapper to FreeImage",
#packages=[''],
ext_modules=[Extension("_freeimage", ["pyFreeImage.cpp"],
libraries=["FreeImage"])]
)

So far so good.
When I launch the build the file compiles well but I've problems
during the link phase:

C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\BIN\link.exe /DLL /nologo
/INCREMENTAL:NO /LIBPATH:C:\Python23\libs /LIBPATH:C:\Python23\PCBuild
FreeImage.lib /EXPORT:init_freeimage
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\pyFreeImage.obj
/OUT:build\lib.win32-2.3\_freeimage.pyd
/IMPLIB:build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\_freeimage.lib
Creating library build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\_freeimage.lib and
object build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\_freeimage.exp
pyFreeImage.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
_FreeImage_GetVersion
pyFreeImage.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
_FreeImage_GetCopyrightMessage
build\lib.win32-2.3\_freeimage.pyd : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
externals
error: command '"C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual
Studio\VC98\BIN\link.exe"' failed with exit status 1120

Given that VC finds the library (I use it in an application of mine
and it compiles well), and that the lib is the latest one,
pre-compiled, as found on sf.net,
what am I missing?

THanks for the help.

Riccardo


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 20:52:19 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:52:19 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<66a61715.0403291539.7e1346c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4068D2D3.4020009@stackless.com>

Buck Nuggets wrote:

> "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.38.1080542935.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
>>for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
>>Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
>>other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
>>25?
> 
> 
> In case you are interested in alternatives approaches...here's how I
> typically do this:
> 
> step 1: sort the file using a separate sort utility (unix sort, cygwin
> sort, etc)
> 
> step 2: have a python program read in rows, 
>         compare each row to the prior,
>         write out only one row for each set

Good solution, but wayyyy too much effort.
You probably know it:
If you are seeking for duplicates, and doing it by
complete ordering, then you are thwowing lots of information
away, since you are not seeking for neighborship, right?
That clearly means: it must be inefficient.

No offense, just trying to get you on the right track!

ciao - chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From patois at calvix.org  Fri Mar 19 17:26:33 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:26:33 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.170.1079729576.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch><mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.170.1079729576.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3fs41$2vbc$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message

> To restate: if I were to investigate further, I would add prints
> statements, since that has so far worked well for me with Python.  What you
> do is up to you.

Since it seems to be definitly illegal, it would only worth further work 
if I would somehow 'fix' python to work with this kind of names, which 
is both above my skills and likely unwanted. Having a clear error 
message at import time would be nice anyway.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar 11 16:58:31 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:58:31 -0500
Subject: Python database
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <qnkvflbhwqg.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "@(none)" <""daniel\"@(none)"> wrote:

> Facts:
>
> (1) I don't know anything about data bases
>
> (2) I don't have much time to learn about them (but I do have SOME time)
>
> (3) I need to store (and retrieve) thousands of pages for a wiki, and
> need to be able to perform simple searches in the data base (but
> nothing else)
>
> (4) I want to have open source free of charge programs

The original Wiki at http://c2.com/cgi/wiki uses the filesystem as
its database (see http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MoreAboutTheDatabase).
You can get ideas by looking at what other people have done at
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiWikiClones

There's a small Wiki clone in Python at
http://sourcefrog.net/projects/piki/
which MoinMoin is based on. It's filesystem based also. I use a custom
version of this for my personal use.

You don't need much of a database. You can probably get away with
one-page-per-file, maybe with an external indexer (like Lupy?). Have a
look at the speed of the original wiki; a full-text search of 26738
pages takes a few seconds -- and it's a cgi script.

> Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? As far as I
> have understood there is no standard data base in Python. Why is this
> so? Do people have too different needs?

There are database modules in the standard Python distribution, just
not relational databases. Look at the anydbm, gdbm, and shelve
modules. Also look at the bsddb module, which is a wrapper around the
Berkeley DB library.

The TCL wiki (http://wiki.tcl.tk/) uses Metakit, which is another
non-relational database (although not included with Python), for which
there are Python wrappers.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From paxcalpt at sapo.pt  Mon Mar  1 01:50:42 2004
From: paxcalpt at sapo.pt (Paxcal)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:50:42 -0000
Subject: IDLE on Windows; save files as UNIX?
References: <lvo0c.15119$aT1.1581@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4042dc05$0$28143$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>

You can use the UNIX (also in cygwin) command dos2unix and unix2dos command
to do the convertion...

Regards

Paxcal

"Jay O'Connor" <jayoconnor at earthlink.net> escreveu na mensagem
news:lvo0c.15119$aT1.1581 at newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I'm doing some Python CGI programming under Windows (Win95) but my CGIs
need to
> run on Linux.  If I try to write and save the files in IDLE, they get
saved in
> DOS format and won't run on the Linux server.  If I load the files into
another
> text editor and explictely "Save As" in UNIX format, they work fine, but
the
> other editor is not Python aware so I'd rather not have to use if for main
> development, and having to load and resave my scripts before uploading to
the
> server is a bit obnoxious.
>
> Is there any way to for IDLE in Windows to save files in UNIX format?
>
> Note: Pythonwin does not work on my machine so I can't use it as an
alternative
>
> Thanks
>




From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 29 22:55:22 2004
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:55:22 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <4068EFAA.8060309@earthlink.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Michael wrote:

| They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one
| would be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people using
| spaces if they like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able to use
| tabs if I like. I can't see how it should make any difference to
| Python which you use so why not allow for personal preference?
|
|> I'll just mention that there are ***very good***, that is
|> ***extremely good*** reasons why the Python standard is to use
|> spaces for indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be
|> removed in 3.0.
|>
They can't possibly be good enough (for my needs).  That said, where
can I check this.  I don't want to make important decisions on
incomplete information.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFAaO9xE1guSVL8NK8RAuZCAJ9k2jZSLxwG6Ql3rHqV8u5APcuPJgCghjjo
AW0ROHktFKNbSKSWYn1q9BM=
=AR/9
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From no at sp.am  Fri Mar 26 14:41:24 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:41:24 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <9dCdnezNbpH4GvndRVn-hw@comcast.com>

 > Anyway GvR just posted on the python-dev saying this:
 >
 > ==
 > No, I want to reserve the leading dot for attribute assignment to a
 > special object specified by a 'with' statement, e.g.
 >
 > with self:
 >     .foo = [1, 2, 3]
 >     .bar(4, .foo)

brilliant!

 > this is in VB so neither of us can claim to have invented it. :-)

oh wait, this sucks :)

 > (And "with" was in Pascal 30+ years ago, without the leading dot.)

lemme ask my grandfather for his opinion


From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  8 15:03:39 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:03:39 +0100
Subject: wrapping C++, how to wrap an object?
References: <c2equb$4la$2@schleim.qwe.de>
	<404aff25$0$3954$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<c2i7le$4nl$1@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <u10znm1w.fsf@python.net>


>> AFAIK, you have 2 mainstream choices for wrapping C++:
>>      1.  Boost.Python - http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/
>>      2.  SWIG - http://www.swig.org/
>> 
>> I'm also aware of:
>>      3.  SIP - http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/docs/sipref.html
>> 
>> I use Boost.Python and have found it to be excellent.
>> 
> Hi,
>
> thanks for that hint.
>
> But is there no way to do this in plain python?
>
> I don't really want to use any additional libraries,
> as i want to use this code in the office and license
> problems are always a big problem there.
>
> Can i somehow wrap a C++ object in a python data type
> just without any additional libraries?

Is PyCObject what you need? Depends on what you mean by 'wrap'...

Thomas




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Mar 22 19:18:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:18:09 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c3nvmn$jrs$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> 1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
> 2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
> 3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
> 4) Avionics for the space shuttle
> 5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
> 6) Tax processing software for the IRS
> 7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
> 8) Accounting software for a big bank
> 9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
> 10) ... well you get the idea.
> 
> Which, if any, would you write in Python?  By "write in Python" I mean

Which, if any, would you write in JAVA or C#? I think for a project in
"userland" thats not on the number crunching or machine architecture side
like a kernel2, python often would be a viable alternative.

And the spaceshuttle runs on a 68K processor - I bet a modern 3GHz processor
running python can beat that :) 


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar 12 16:15:08 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:15:08 +0100
Subject: Optparse: Detecting if option or option-arg is specified or not
References: <b19beb92.0403111410.4202c2b3@posting.google.com>
	<c2qqb1$87d$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<b19beb92.0403121047.3977802f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2t98t$num$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Sam Smith wrote:

> Usage Scenario:
> 
> I am implementing a multi-level commandline program.  On windows
> platform similar to "net /?" command which in turn has "net use /?",
> "net computer /?" etc commandlines.
> 
> Some of my commandlines share the same option-arg, but the default
> value to be associated with each of them is different.  In one of the
> commandlines I was trying to detect if the user has specified the
> option or not and if not assign a different value to the option.

I normally don't advocate code duplication, but in this case I'd either
specialcase

if specialcommandline:
    parser.add_option(special option)
else:
    parser.add_option(normal option)

or completely separate the parsers for the two differing scenarios.
 
> Irrespective of the usage scenario, I believe that it is important to
> give the module user the ability to find out whether an option has
> been specified or not by the user.

Irrespective of the usage scenario - you can't be serious here.
 
> Some suggestions:
> 
> * Maybe a method can be added to the option class, isSpecified()
>   which will return True if the option is found on commandline
>   and optparse has read it or False if the option is not found
>   on the commandline.
> 
> * Add ability to query the Values instance which is returned by
>   parse_args

My doubts not withstanding, here's how to achieve the desired (I think)
behaviour in a few lines - not tested beyond what you see as I will hardly
ever use it myself:

import sets
import optparse as op

class Values(op.Values):
    def __init__(self, defaults):
        op.Values.__init__(self, defaults)
        self.specified = sets.Set([])

    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        self.__dict__[name] = value
        if hasattr(self, "specified"):
            self.specified.add(name)


def test(args):
    p = op.OptionParser()
    p.add_option("-f", dest="filename", default="tmp.txt")
    v = Values(p.defaults)
    p.parse_args(args, v)
    if "filename" in v.specified:
        info = "specified:"
    else:
        info = "using default:"
    print info, v.filename

test(["-f", "other.txt"])
test(["-f", "tmp.txt"])
test([])

Peter





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar 19 15:54:56 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:54:56 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>
	<405A5EC9.6010503@yahoo.com.au>
	<2eu6c.25407$P45.19517@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<zdF6c.52734$H44.970386@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <405B5E20.AD0EAB6D@alcyone.com>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that IEEE floating point requires NaN to be defined in
> such
> a way that if x is NaN, then x == x must yield False.

That's correct.  Python itself doesn't do this, though:

Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 22 2003, 23:44:26) 
[GCC 3.2.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a = 1e3000
>>> a
inf
>>> a/a
nan
>>> n = a/a
>>> n == n
True
>>> 

[Similar things are shown for Python on Solaris 8.]

But the following C program:

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
    double a = 1e3000;

    double n = a/a;

    printf("%f, %f, %d\n", a, n, a == n);

    return 0;
}

prints

inf, nan, 0

on Intel Linux.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Chance favors the trained mind.
    -- Louis Pasteur


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Tue Mar 30 01:45:49 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:45:49 +0100
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com><c9d82136.0403191806.151cfa46@posting.google.com>
	<002901c40e66$cabaa860$0600a8c0@Hugh>
Message-ID: <004f01c41622$a30ca2f0$0600a8c0@Hugh>

Fair enough - thanks for the suggestion....

I have actually already gone the other way, which works perfectly, thanks.
If I find problems with the method I'm using, then I will certainly take a
look at this one...

Hugh Macdonald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron Laird" <claird at lairds.com>
To: <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: Getting both PID and output from a command


> In article <mailman.182.1079778728.742.python-list at python.org>,
> Hugh Macdonald <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote:
> >I suspect I'll probably use Donn Cave's suggestion when I give it a go on
> >monday - I'd rather not use any external modules if I can help it, and I
> >know that stderr gives me output in a format that I can read (I know
exactly
> >which command I want to run here, and I have the program working properly
> >except for not being able to stop if before it finishes on its own.....)
> .
> .
> .
> Please understand that, as external modules go, Pexpect
> is easy to like, because it's "pure Python".  It's just
> some Python source code.  You can choose to put it all
> inside *your* program, then there's nothing "external".
> If you wish, just think of it as a particularly long
> Usenet reply that has already been tested.
> -- 
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
>
>




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar 18 06:51:22 2004
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:51:22 -0000
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D012010C0@intrepid>

> From: menceur at hotmail.com [mailto:menceur at hotmail.com]
> The Java community is working on the adoption of Groovy as a JCP
> standard (http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=241).
> Groovy is a dynamic/agile language for Java
> (http://groovy.codehaus.org/).
> 
> IMO, it will be better to support the Jython project. Because Jython
> exists, it's very useful and powerful. In fact, I think java community
> want to have its own "scripting" language because java community is
> not open-minded enough and will not accept to use something for the
> outside.

I raised this with James Strachan and a London Java meetup when he first
dreamt up Groovy. Thing is, he likes Java syntax, and doesn't really like
Python that much:

<http://wiki.codehaus.org/groovy/PythonLanguage>

AFAIC, I don't see anything in Groovy to tempt me away from Python (and
Jython). But some people want to stick to something that looks as close to
Java as possible, and Jython may not be for them.

Anthony Eden has pointed out that even for these people, there is a more
established solution than Groovy:

<http://weblog.anthonyeden.com/archives/000085.html>

All that said, James is a lovely bloke, so good luck to him. May the best
dynamic language win!

Cheers,
Simon B.
simon at brunningonline.net
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ 
--LongSig




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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 16 16:23:03 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:23:03 -0600
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16471.28727.338538.151300@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Axel" == Axel Boldt <axelboldt at yahoo.com> writes:

    Axel> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote 
    >> >>> x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
    >> >>> y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
    >> >>> x is y
    >> True
    >> >>> x = 'a b'
    >> >>> y = 'a b'
    >> >>> x is y
    >> False

    Axel> Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is
    Axel> unspecified and implementation dependent, thus useless to the
    Axel> programmer.

No, its behavior is quite well-specified.  It does a pointer comparison.
Here is my "is" rule:

    Use "is" to compare two objects only if one is explicitly known to be a
    singleton defined by the language (None, Ellipsis, True, False).

and its corrolary:

    Never use "is" to compare two programmer-defined variables.

Note that even though I "know" that small integers, identifier-like strings
and the null tuple are all shared objects, the language implementation is
free to change.  Those are simply optimizations which you can't rely on.
Use "==" when comparing integers, strings and tuples.

Trying to use "is" when you want a performance improvement is generally
unwise.  There is a performance hit going from "is" to "==", but it's
probably going be down in the noise compared to all the other things a
significant program needs to do.  Ordered from fastest to slowest, timing a
pass statement, "a is b", "a == b" and a call to a function that only
executes a pass statement:

    % timeit.py -s "a = b = 'frankie and johnny'" "pass"
    10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.132 usec per loop
    % timeit.py -s "a = b = 'frankie and johnny'" "a is b"
    1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.372 usec per loop
    % timeit.py -s "a = b = 'frankie and johnny'" "a == b"
    1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.491 usec per loop
    % timeit.py -s "def f(): pass" "f()"
    1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.1 usec per loop

"a == b" is still twice as fast as a null function call.

Moral of the story: stop writing code that contains so many
functions. <wink>

Skip



From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar 11 17:15:57 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 14:15:57 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403111415.6485048@posting.google.com>

[David MacQuigg]
> print @(separator = None) x, y, z

For this particular example, you might get farther by proposing a
builtin print function that takes optional keyword arguments:

def newprint(*args, separator=' ', destination=sys.stdout):
   print >> destination, separator.join(args)

Guido at one time wished that print was a function instead of a
statement.  Here's your chance to push that idea forward.

Using a function instead of a statement is inherently more flexible,
easier to extend, and helps address a couple of micro-warts (i.e. a
handful of people hate the automatic spacing, and more than a handful
hate the >> notation).


Raymond Hettinger


From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar 30 14:51:56 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lyck?)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 11:51:56 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <258fd9b8.0403301151.179e9190@posting.google.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> * A bit of syntactic sugar for defining prototype objects
>    wouldn't go amiss. Having to say
> 
>      Thing = Base()
>      with Thing:
>         ...
> 
>    every time I want to define a class (oops, sorry, prototype)
>    would drive me batty.

What about just combining it to this?

with Thing = Base():
    ...


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 12 14:46:21 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:46:21 -0500
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com><f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com><kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2t42b$oo0$1@sea.gmane.org>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b at 4ax.com...
> The one exception I can think of is what Terry Reedy mentioned - the
> iteration variable in a list comprehension.  In some future
> optimization, they may neglect to save that variable.  I hope they
> don't do that (even though it really has no use).  I just like the
> consistency we now have in treatment of all local variables.

Please see other post.  In the future, the consisitency will be with
generator comprehensions, where the loop variable is clearly encapsulated
inside the induced generator function.

Terry J. Reedy






From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Tue Mar 30 06:26:14 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:26:14 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zn9yk23t.fsf@blakie.riol>

"Hugh Macdonald" <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> writes:

> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
>
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.
>
> Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed to
> me
>
> GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
>
> Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
>
> Anything else?

I'm very happy with web interface :-)

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From mstenner at ece.arizona.edu  Mon Mar 15 11:07:45 2004
From: mstenner at ece.arizona.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:07:45 -0700
Subject: pre-processing source from distutils
In-Reply-To: <c2vpuk$lht$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>
References: <c2vpuk$lht$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <c34kd8$9c1$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>

Michael Stenner wrote:
> Is it possible to pre-process source code from distutils?  I don't want 
> to do anything too fancy.  I just want to put the VERSION from setup.py 
> (and maybe a date) into the module at sdist or build time (I haven't 
> decided which of those would be cleaner).  Anybody know of a clean way 
> to do this?

After some hunting around, I found that the preferred way to handle this 
specific problem is to put __version__ = 'x.x.x' in the module itself 
(or in __init__.py for a package) and then have setup.py import the 
module and slurp the version in from there.  That works for me.

                                   -Michael



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 11 19:52:30 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:52:30 +0200
Subject: Python database
In-Reply-To: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <405109CE.503@zoran.com>

Hello None,

> Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? 
IIRC `metakit' is very simple to use.

 > As far as I have understood there is no standard data base in Python.
 > Why is this so? Do people have too different needs?
I think the `anydbm' module is what you're looking for.

HTH.
Miki


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar 15 16:38:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:38:13 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <ji3c50hjb88fiq0c6l83a6l8mh0i4lg2qj@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.29.1079375343.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<ji3c50hjb88fiq0c6l83a6l8mh0i4lg2qj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040315213813.GD2446@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 01:18:34PM -0700, David MacQuigg wrote:
> Maybe you can save a significant amount of memory by having all the
> *system* modules share a common 'None' object, but when a user
> explicitly says 'M1.x = None', surely we can afford a 8 bytes to
> provide a special None for that reference.

Not only is there a lot of Python code written that says
    if x is None: ...
but there are dozens of pointer comparisons to Py_None in the C source
code for Python.  In this somewhat stale CVS tree, grep found 263 lines
with both "==" and "Py_None" on the same line, and 86 more with "!=" and
"Py_None" on the same line.  Py_True and Py_False appear with == and !=
an additional 45 times.  Perhaps you'd like to fix all the third-party
extension modules once you're done inspecting something like 300 sites
in the Python core.

For Py_None, at least, the pointer equality rule is enshrined in the API
documentation:
    Since None is a singleton, testing for object identity (using "=="
    in C) is sufficient.
        http://www.python.org/doc/api/noneObject.html

Jeff



From avagent-bounce at beauty.oscar-gmbh.com  Wed Mar 31 16:39:43 2004
From: avagent-bounce at beauty.oscar-gmbh.com (Anti-Virus Agent)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:39:43 +0200
Subject: WARNING! Virus or unsafe content was found in message from
	python-list@python.org
Message-ID: <E1B8nR1-0001oy-00@beauty.oscar-gmbh.com>

The message sent from <python-list at python.org> to the following recipient(s):

	andreas.brodowski at oscar-gmbh.com

with subject line 'Delivered Message (andreas.brodowski at oscar-gmbh.com)', contains a virus or similar harmful content,
therefore it was NOT delivered.

---
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-mp3music.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_excel.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_excel.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-yours.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-yours.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_bill.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_file.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_product.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-application.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-mp3music.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_word.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-application.pif
WORM_NETSKY.C in f-yours.zip
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_word.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.J in f-yours.pif
WORM_NETSKY.J in f-document_full.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.J in f-document_4351.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-message_part2.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_bill.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_file.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_full.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_4351.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-all_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-all_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_file.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_word.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_4351.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-application.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_file.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_word.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_letter.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-message_part2.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-all_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_4351.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_full.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_bill.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_bill.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-all_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_product.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-message_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_BAGLE.GEN-1 in f-Document.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-my_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_website.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_file.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-all_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-confirm.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-archive_.jung.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-details_postmaster.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-details_info.doc.exe
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_product.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-datfiles.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-old_photos_.jung.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_website.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_word.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-information.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-msg.doc.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message_.jung.doc.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_4351.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document05.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-game.txt.scr
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-readme.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document_all02c.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-account.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-details.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-letter32.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-my_numbers_g.man.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document_all.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document09.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-message_part2.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.scr
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document_g.man.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-readme.doc.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-text.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_product.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-game_xxo.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-data02.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document.exe
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-application.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-details.exe
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-signature.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-details.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document342.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-part_01.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-photo.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-doc01.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message_g.man.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-my_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-my_details.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-document07_g.man.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_picture.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.exe
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-readme.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-pgp_sess01.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-product.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_archive.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_text.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-part6_g.man.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-part_01.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-sample01.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_bill.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message3094.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-data.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-message.scr
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WORM_NETSKY.P in f-letter.zip
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message11176.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-about_you.scr
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message.pif
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WORM_NETSKY.D in f-your_document.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_word.pif
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-letter43.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-important.zip
WORM_NETSKY.P in f-.scr
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_4351.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-document_4351.pif
WORM_NETSKY.D in f-mp3music.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message13918.zip
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-data9213.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-message.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-data2674.pif
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-mail16007.zip
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-data3539.zip
WORM_NETSKY.Q in f-data25189.zip

---



From o_gloom at mail.com  Thu Mar 11 07:16:35 2004
From: o_gloom at mail.com (gloom)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 04:16:35 -0800
Subject: pythoncom, CoUninitialize & references
Message-ID: <9f115c52.0403110416.4c29e7ca@posting.google.com>

Hey,

I'm programming something with NeroSDK COM module, and I bumped into a
problem:
why doesn't python releases and uninitializes COM objects that are no
longer referenced?

Here is a sample code:
# start of sample code
from win32com.client import *

nero = None

def find_backpack_cd():
    drives = nero.GetDrives(constants.NERO_MEDIA_CD)
    rc = None
    for d in drives:
        if d.DeviceName.find("BACKPACK") != -1:
            rc = d
            break
    del(drives)
    print rc
    return rc

def main():
    global nero
    nero = Dispatch("Nero.Nero")
    cd = find_backpack_cd()
    del(cd)
    del(nero)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()
    print pythoncom._GetInterfaceCount()
    pythoncom.CoFreeUnusedLibraries()
    pythoncom.CoUninitialize()
 
# end of sample code

the problem is as follows, if for example, I remove the line
'del(nero)' in function main(), the _GetInterfaceCount() is 1 and
CoUninitialize() fails.
And if I remove the explicit call to CoUninitialize() (and the
interface count is greater than 0) the next time I run the program it
fails with exception that the neroAPI is already initialized (deducing
that it is somehow still in memory).

Doesn't python should get rid of all instances of the COM objects
through its garbage collector?


Thanks,
Omer.


From matt.gerrans at hp.com  Tue Mar 23 19:13:59 2004
From: matt.gerrans at hp.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:13:59 GMT
Subject: creating lists question?
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <bp48c.1529$0_1.159@news.cpqcorp.net>

"spisatus" wrote:
> I'm not sure this is doing what I want it to do. In the example I gave I
> want a new list call "aaa" another list called "bbb"... so I can append to
> the new list  i.e., bbb.append().  It may be that your example does this
but
> it appears to be (with my limited knowledge) that it's creating a list of
> lists, when all I want is a new isolated list.

This would do the trick:

for item in list1:
 exec( item + ' = []' )

Of course, there are the usual cautions about using exec() and error
handling...




From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 11:49:51 2004
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (Phil Schmidt)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 08:49:51 -0800
Subject: Tkinter default bindings
Message-ID: <221e7b06.0403010849.e78448@posting.google.com>

I have an Entry widget inside a Frame. The Frame contains other
widgets as well. I have bound the <Key> event to the Frame, but I
don't want the Frame to receive the event when the Entry widget has
focus.

So, I bound the <Key> event to the Entry widget (bound to method
a_key()). This works, except that both the Entry and Frame widgets get
the event. This also forces me to implement event handlers, which is
fine for the Frame since that's what I want to do. But I want the
Entry to use its default handler, not my own handler. Rather than
duplicate all that functionality, I found I could accomplish this by
temporarily unbinding the events, re-generating the event, and then
re-binding the events, as follows:

    def a_key(self, e):
        self.top.unbind('<Key>')
        self.entry.unbind('<Key>')
        self.entry.event_generate('<Key>',
                                  keycode=e.keycode,
                                  keysym=e.keysym,
                                  )
        self.entry.bind('<Key>', self.a_key)
        self.top.bind('<Key>', self._parent_class__keypress)
        return 'break'

This works, but it's kludgy. Is there a better way to do this? I just
want the Entry widget to receive the event when it has focus, behave
in its default manner, and not have the event propagate upward to
containing widgets.


From user at domain.invalid  Fri Mar 12 00:21:15 2004
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:21:15 +1100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<mailman.290.1079046207.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405148CB.1030103@domain.invalid>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> For loops with a break statement, the value of the loop index when the
> break occurs may be the answer sought or needed to calculate it.  For list
> comps which cannot have break, it is an artifact which may disappear in
> 2.4.

If I understand you, I don't think I like this idea. It 
adds complexity to the mental model of a loop. "The 
loop variable disappears when the loop ends unless the 
loop contains a break".

In my opinion, Python should pick a model and stick to 
it. Loop variables are either ordinary variables that 
exist until you explicitly delete them, or they are 
special variables that automagically disappear at the 
end of the loop. I vote for the first one.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Mar 15 09:14:33 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:14:33 +0000
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <0vdb505qigqvp8eahhp5qubnuh1v7n7k61@4ax.com>

On 15 Mar 2004 12:52:14 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
>
>> Imagine (for the sake of brevity of argument --- I wouldn't dream of
>> suggesting such a "line-noise" syntax for Python) that you could use
>> "x := 3" to mean "create a new local binding for x", while "x = 3"
>> would mean "find the innermost x and rebind it", with function
>> parameters, loop variables, list comprehension variables all behaving
>> as if they were using ":=". Now you'll find that you gain a lot of
>> flexibility to do what is appropriate with scopes of variables used in
>> loops etc., and you have an opportunity to fix the immutability of
>> closures ...
>> 
>> (Of course there are "issues" ... what happens, for
>> example when you say
>> 
>>     def foo(a):
>>         a := 3
>>         a := 4
>> 
>> ... does that make three nested scopes for a?, is it an error?)
>
>Hmm, this is starting to intrigue me.
>
>What are the situations that need disambiguating?
>
>What situations do (or might) create inner scopes?
>
>"def" and "class" are currently the two ways of creating an inner
>scope (have I overlooked any others?) ... and we are considering the
>possibility of "for" doing the same (in two different flavours: loops
>and comprehensions).
>

Is it (entirely) correct to say that class opens a new scope? I don't
think so, since names bound within the class body become attributes of
the class object, they are not local variables -- you can reach them
from the outside.

>Current rules can be summarized as:
>
>  In a scope creating block (def, class), assignment introduces a
>  local binding, unless the name is declared global.
>
>It looks like what's missing (because originally there were no other
>scopes between local and global) is some way of declaring a name to
>refer to an enclosing scope which may or may not be the global scope.
>
>For example:
>
>  >>> def make():
>  ...     x = 0
>  ...     def show(): print x
>  ...     def inc(n): x = x+n
>  ...     return show,inc
>  ... 
>  >>> show,inc = make()
>  >>> show()
>  0
>  >>> inc(3)
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 4, in inc
>  UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x' referenced before assignment
>
>The problem is that the "x =" inside "def inc():" tells the compiler
>to treat "x" as local to the scope of "inc", and then the reference to
>"x" or the RHS of the same line refers to an unbound variable ("x" in
>the _local_ scope). "global" is there for exactly this sort of
>situation, except that it originates from a time when there were no
>nested scopes, so it offers no help if you want to refer to some scope
>other than the global or local.
>

There were discussions about this in in the python dev list. The only
proposal that stuck in my memory was an extension of the global
keyword where you had an option of specifying the scope, something
like:

def g(*args):

    x = None

    def f(*args):
        global x in g
  
The scope of a name is determined at compile time, so it seems
unavoidable that a declaration is needed. But I wished that there were
no declarations in Python and some OO form of treating scopes like
objects with the local names being its attributes were available --
but I am also well aware that this is a very idiosincratic preference
:-)

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 17 13:12:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:12:07 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
In-Reply-To: <Ky%5c.26184$Pa7.671188@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>
	<Ky%5c.26184$Pa7.671188@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <Ze6dncncZq9qCcXdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

> "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
> news:4057B2A4.F9EC49DD at alcyone.com...
> 
> 
>>Do you have an example of this that doesn't involve comparisons between
>>different types?
> 
> 
> Do long and float count as different types?

Was this a trick question?

 >>> float
<type 'float'>
 >>> long
<type 'long'>
 >>> issubclass(long, long)
True
 >>> issubclass(long, float)
False
 >>> issubclass(float, long)
False

Python says the answer to your question is "yes"...

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar  6 12:07:29 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:07:29 -0500
Subject: Introspection at the module level?
References: <roy-AEE793.11085806032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c2d0gh$hmn$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-AEE793.11085806032004 at reader2.panix.com...
> But I don't see how to get the values.  Getattr() is sort of what I
> want, but it works on objects, not modules.

Yes it does

>>> m = __import__(__name__)
>>> setattr(m, 'a', 3)
>>> dir(m)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'a', 'm']
>>> getattr(m, 'a')
3

> I don't see how to get a handle to the module from inside the module,
i.e.
> there's no "self".

You have to define it yourself.  See above.

> What am I missing?
d={} # then, inside your loop:
 d[getattr(m,name)] = name #should do what you said you want

Terry J. Reedy






From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Mar 16 08:30:26 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:30:26 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.16.13.30.19.189891@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:28:47 +0100 schrieb Luca T.:

> So it seems that "su" refuses to work if it is run like this.
> Now, beside "sudo" that i CANNOT use because i don't want to change the 
> configuration of the user's comp... any idea about how i could run a 
> program as root from inside my python program?

Hi,

write a little C programm and make it setuid root.
Scripts cannot be setuid.

Be carefull, there are a many things you need to
make it secure. Maybe suexec of apache can be
used as template.

HTH, 
 Thomas



From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 18 14:50:17 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:50:17 -0700
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<abbf50l09jdtlup5mpnudi5pm6f4q7ku41@4ax.com>
	<qnk65d2adbi.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <5bvj50tp0qc4j0kibo7q8ul86t5t8k2901@4ax.com>



>At some point, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>> I can't see where the 'is' test would *ever* be needed for the above
>> comparisons.
>
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:17:53 -0500, cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca
(David M. Cooke) wrote:
>I do a lot of stuff with arrays in Numeric, which override __eq__ to
>elementwise comparision:
>
>Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 24 2004, 09:29:20) 
>[GCC 3.3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import Numeric
>>>> x = Numeric.array([0,1,2,3])
>>>> x == None
>array([0,0,0,0])
>>>> bool(x == None)
>False
>>>> x is None
>False
>>>> x == False
>array([1,0,0,0])
>>>> bool(x == False)
>True
>>>> x is False
>False
>>>> bool(x == True)
>True
>>>> bool(x == True and x == False)
>True
>
>[Ok, so bool(x == None) returns False, which is good, but imagine the
>overhead if x was an array of several million elements. x == None
>would allocate a new array of the same size.]

For the rare case where storage of None elements is an issue, could
you define your own 'none' object, and simply point all references to
it.  That would allow you to use 'is', avoiding the overhead of '==',
and not mess with the normal definition of '=='.  Most importantly, it
would allow you to use 'is' with confidence that a Python
implementation change, or a move to a new platform, won't trash your
program.

>>> class none:
	def __repr__(self):
		return 'none'
	... whatever other attributes you need for 'none'

>>> n0 = none()
>>> n1 = n2 = n0
>>> n1 == n2
True
>>> n1 is n2
True
>>> n1
none
>>> 

-- Dave



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 11:51:51 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:51:51 -0800
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
References: <mailman.77.1079525205.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-197783.08515117032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.77.1079525205.742.python-list at python.org>,
 "Oliver Kurz" <olku at web.de> wrote:

> I call the uid like this
> 
> uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")

Have you tried uid("STORE", uid, "+FLAGS", "(\SEEN)")?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar  8 23:48:42 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:48:42 -0500
Subject: How to send event to another window in wxPython?
References: <c2jfd7$hbu$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <c2jib9$dhq$1@sea.gmane.org>


"J.R." <j.r.gao at motorola.com> wrote in message
news:c2jfd7$hbu$1 at newshost.mot.com...
> A parent window (wxFrame object), which has the reference to its child
> window(also wxFrame object).
> I want to send event or message to the child window from the parent
window,
> just like simulating the mouse
> or keyboard activities on child window. How to implement it?

wxPython is an application written in Python, not Python itself.  You may
or may not have better luck asking your question on the wxPython mailing
list.






From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 13:34:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:34:36 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <grn4c.2753$G3.22466@localhost>

David MacQuigg wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:45:24 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> wrote:
>>Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least 
>>until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one 
>>problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its behaviour.
> 
> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when what you
> need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace every
> reference to objects in the old module with references to the new
> objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when those
> references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.

I don't consider this a problem with reload, I consider it a design 
defect.  If there's a need for such a thing, it should be designed in to 
the application, and certainly one would remove the "scattering" of 
objects such as these which are about to be replaced en masse.

I think many applications would be inherently broken if a programmer 
thought a simple "reload" of the style you envision would work without 
serious but possibly quite subtle side effects.

>>I think that when you consider Python's namespace mechanism, you can't 
>>avoid the possibility of situations like the ones reload can now lead to.
> 
> I don't understand.  My assumption is you would normally update all
> references to the selected objects in all namespaces.

I guess we're coming at this from different viewpoints.  My comments 
above should probably explain why I said that.  Basically, it seems to 
me very unlikely there are good use cases for wanting to update the 
classes behind the backs of objects regardless of where references to 
them are bound.  I'm open to suggestions though.

-Peter


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Sat Mar 27 18:14:15 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:14:15 -0800
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <mailman.1.1080428101.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<76adnc77cvMUl_vdRVn-jA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <76adncn7cvNZl_vdRVn-jA@centurytel.net>

Sorry, the RE should be '(\d+)\s+\"([\w\']+)[,\s]+([\w\']+)'

Ed Suominen wrote:

> m = sre.search('(\d+)\s+\"[\w\'][,\s]+([\w\'])', s)
> x = (int(m.group(1)), group(2), group(3))
> 
> - Ed Suominen
> 
> achaljalan at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
>> Hey,
>> 
>> I have a string
>> 
>>         s =740446505        "O'HANLON, Benjamin"
>> 
>> i need to use one RE to convert it into
>>   
>>        (740446505, "O'HANLN", "Benjamin"),
>> 
>> I am using python 2.3 and have been stuydin the various tutotrials and
>> the howto websites for the past 3 days and haven't managed to find a
>> solution.
>> 
>> Any help to get to the solution will be very very helpful.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for all the help.
>> 
>> Achal Jalan
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 06:12:34 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:12:34 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
	<7xisgxuoti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <ceit50htinmgieq88bviiblfqrtkh744dh@4ax.com>

On 22 Mar 2004 03:02:49 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>> Good point. Though to me, it isn't that it's a pain for the compiler
>> to search for the 'yield' - I don't care about the compilers pain. The
>> problem is that *I* have to look for the yield and might not notice it.
>
>Well, yes.  It wouldn't have occurred to me to care about the
>compiler's pain ;-).

We're such an unfeeling bunch, aren't we ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From python at hitmedia.com  Fri Mar 12 01:44:56 2004
From: python at hitmedia.com (Python Baby)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:44:56 -0800
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
In-Reply-To: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
Message-ID: <20040312064456.GA1898@mail.hitmedia.com>

Yes but how does Spanish compare to Ruby?
Which is better?

;-)



From dj00302003 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 19:49:26 2004
From: dj00302003 at yahoo.com (Jay Davis)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 16:49:26 -0800
Subject: Xemacs terminal output
Message-ID: <1d17eeb7.0403211649.4683bd4f@posting.google.com>

What is the best way to run python in Xemacs (with C-c C-c)
with real time standard output?  Right now, the python output
window fills up when the program is finished running, but
if the program runs for hours it would be nice to see the
output as it is written.  I know that I can switch to a
python interpreter window and paste the code in etc but I don't
care about the interpreter, just about the (printed) output
after C-c C-c.


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  9 05:37:25 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:37:25 +0100
Subject: URGENT: REALLY NEED HELP: Feel Helpless
References: <mailman.161.1078824314.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2k6p5$6e9$03$1@news.t-online.com>

dont bother wrote:

> # python code for creating dictionary of words from an
> input file
> import string, StringIO
> import mailbox, email, re
> import os
> import sys
> import re
> import mailbox
> import email.Parser
> import email.Message
> import getopt
> 
> 
> fp=open(sys.argv[1], 'r')
> 
> msg=email.message_from_file(fp)
> 
> msg=msg.get_payload()
> 
> dictpos={}
> wordcount={}
> #get rid of anything that isn't a letter, and make it
> all lowercase:
> lower = ''.join(map(chr, range(97, 123)))
> fixed_body = msg.translate(65*' '+lower+6*'
> '+lower+133*' ')
> 
> #words_in_body = fixed_body.split()
> 
> msg = fixed_body.split()
 
Throw in a 
print msg
sys.exit("debug")
here and see if it's what you expected. 
If yes, comment out and proceed.

> for i, w in enumerate(file('dictionary_index')):
> dictpos[w.strip()]=i
> #print i
> #print w

Throw in a 
print dictpos
sys.exit("debug")
here and see if it's what you expected.
If yes, comment out and proceed.

> for w in msg:
> try:
> wordcount[w]+=1
> #print wordcount
> except KeyError:
> wordcount[w]=1
> #print wordcount

Throw in a 
print wordcount
sys.exit("debug")
here and see if it's what you expected.
If yes, comment out and proceed.

> for w, c in wordcount.iteritems():
> try:
> print dictpos[w],':',c
> except KeyError:
> pass

Throw in a 
print [dictpos.get(w, "<not found>") for (w,c) in wordcount.iteritems()]
sys.exit("debug")
here and see if it's what you expected.
If yes, comment out and you've fixed your first python program.
If one step fails, you're at least able to make a more focused post.
But before, please fix your capslock key. This is urgent, too.

Peter



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar 29 07:17:32 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:17:32 +0200
Subject: How to run another .py file w/o exec command?
In-Reply-To: <yQA9c.7195$ol3.1379@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <yQA9c.7195$ol3.1379@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <406813DC.3010807@zoran.com>

Hello CaptainN,

> I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I can't find it.  How can I execute
> another .py file from my first .py file without using an exec* command?
> They're both in the same directory, and it would be nice to have some
> run("another.py") type statement as opposed to a big exec with absolute
> pathnames and garbage like that.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html#built-in-funcs
Search for execfile

HTH.
Miki


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar  6 15:22:14 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:22:14 -0800
Subject: Need better string methods
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E88@opus.amorhq.net>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> I'm considering Python as a replacement for the highly specialized
> scripting languages used in the electronics design industry.
>8
> The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits and
> pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen CPL.
> String processing, for example, is one area where we may face some
> difficulty.  Here is a typical line of garbage from a statefile
> revision control system (simplified to eliminate some items that pose
> no new challenges):
> 
> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
> 
> The problem is to break this into its component parts, and eliminate
> spaces and other gradoo.  The cleaned-up list should look like:
> 
> ['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']
> 
> # Current best Python:
> clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]
> 
> This is too much to expect of a non-programmer, even one who
> undestands the methods.  The usability problems are 1) the three
> variations in syntax ( methods, a list comprehension, and what *looks
> like* a join function prefixed by some odd punctuation), and 2) The
> order in which each step is entered at the keyboard.  ( I can show
> this in step-by-step detail if anyone doesn't understand what I mean.)
> 3) Proper placement of parens can be confusing.
> 
> What we need is a syntax that flows in the same order you have to
> think about the problem, stopping at each step to visualize an
> intermendiate result, then typing the next operation, not mousing back
> to insert a function or the start of a comprehension, and not screwing
> up the parentheses. ( My inititial version had the closing paren of
> the join method *after* the following strip, which lucky-for-me popped
> an attribute error ... not-so-lucky could work OK on this example, but
> mess up in subtle ways on future data. )
> 
> # Subclassing a list:
> clean = [MyList(t.split()).join().strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]
> 
> The MyList.join method works as expected.  I havent' figured out yet
> how to add a map method to MyList, but already I can guess this is not
> leading to a clean syntax.  Having to insert 'MyList' everywhere is as
> bad as the original syntax.  Maybe someone can help me with the
> Python.  I would love it if there was a simple solution not requiring
> changes to Python.
> 
> # Possible future Python:
> # clean = line.split('|').map().split().join().strip('.')
> 
> The map method takes a list in the "front door" and feeds items from
> the list one-at-a-time to the method waiting at its "back door".  The
> join method expects a list of strings at its front door and delivers a
> single string at its back door.  If something other than a space is
> needed to join the strings, that can be provided via the (side-door)
> of the join method.

The answer depends quite a bit on the deployment environment. If you
have a limited (knowable) set of commands which you wish to chain in
this manner, you can simply write each one and package them up into a
"listtools" package (or "mycompanytools" if they end up being more
diverse in the problems they solve). Usage would then be, for example:

>>> import listtools
>>> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"
>>> listtools.List(line).split("|").squeeze().strip(".")
['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']

...the idea being that, once you have "line" wrapped in a listtools.List
object, that object can have whatever methods you see fit. In this case,
I'd envision most of the methods above returning another listtools.List
(this is the actual module I used to produce the above):


class List(list):
    def __init__(self, value=[]):
        if isinstance(value, (tuple, list)):
            list.__init__(self, value)
        else:
            list.__init__(self, [value])
    
    def split(self, separator):
        product = List()
        for atom in self:
            product.extend(atom.split(separator))
        return product
    
    def squeeze(self):
        product = List()
        for atom in self:
            atom = ' '.join(atom.split())
            product.append(atom)
        return product
    
    def strip(self, chars=None):
        product = List()
        for atom in self:
            product.append(atom.strip(chars))
        return product


Hope that helps!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 02:01:09 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 23:01:09 -0800
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<grn4c.2753$G3.22466@localhost>
	<ba1450tvgdttth3ddu88qjevsv9k5b1tpb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403142301.5ee6bad7@posting.google.com>

> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:45:24 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when what you
> >> need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace every
> >> reference to objects in the old module with references to the new
> >> objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when those
> >> references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.

You could use a class instead of a module. I have done that kind of
thing with classes and weakrefs. By the way, it kind of surprises me
that no one has mentioned weakref in this thread. It's not too hard to
keep a list of weakrefs, and everytime an object is created, you
register it with that list. Now, when the new class comes in (e.g. via
reload(),) you get the list of weakrefs of the existing objects, and
re-assign their __class__, and voila, dynamic change of class
behavior. Of course, if you spend some time and push this feature into
the metaclass, everytime becomes even easier.

But it is true that in Python you have to implement dynamic refreshing
of behavior (module or class) explicitly, whereas in Ruby, as I
understand, class behavior refreshing is automatic.

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<ba1450tvgdttth3ddu88qjevsv9k5b1tpb at 4ax.com>...
>
> I agree, most programs should not have 'reload()' designed in, and
> those that do, should be well aware of its limitations.  I'm concerned
> more about interactive use, specifically of programs which cannot be
> conveniently restarted from the beginning.  I guess I'm spoiled by HP
> BASIC, where you can change the program statements while the program
> is running! (half wink)

Edit-and-continue. Which is kind of important. For instance, I often
have to load in tons of data from the database, do some initial
processing, and then do the actual calculations. Or in game
programming, where you have to load up a lot of things, play quite a
few initial steps, before you arrive at the point of your interest.
Now, in these kinds of programs, where the initial state preparation
takes a long time, you really would like some "edit-and-continue"
feature while developing the program.

For GUI programs, edit-and-continue is also very helpful during
development.

And for Web applications, actually most CGI-like programs (EJB in Java
jargon, or external methods in Zope) are all reloadable while the
web/app server is running. Very often you can do open-heart surgery on
web/app servers, while the website is running live.

> Here is a use-case for classes. I've got hundreds of variables in a
> huge hierarchy of "statefiles".  In my program, that hierarchy is
> handled as a hierarchy of classes.  If I want to access a particular
> variable, I say something like:
> wavescan.window1.plot2.xaxis.label.font.size = 12
> These classes have no methods, just names and values and other
> classes.

"State file" reminds me of a programming paradigm based on REQUEST and
RESPONSE. (Sometimes REQUEST alone.) Basically, your program's
information is stored in a single "workspace" object. The advantage of
this approach is: (1) All function/method calls at higher level have
unique "header", something like f(REQUEST, RESPONSE), or f(REQUEST),
and you will never need to worry about header changes. (2) The REQUEST
and/or RESPONSE object could be serialized and stored on disk, or
passed via remote calls to other computers. Since they can be
serialized, you can also intercept/modify the content and do unit
testing. This is very important in programs that take long time to
build up initial states. Basically, once you are able to serialize and
cache the state on disk (and even modify the states offline), then you
can unit test various parts of your program WITHOUT having to start
from scratch. Some people use XML for serialization to make state
modification even easier, but any other serialization format is just
as fine. This approach is also good when you want/need some
parallel/distributed computing down the future, since the serialized
states could be potentially be dispatched independently.

Today's file access time is so fast that disk operations are often
being sub-utilized. In heavy numerical crunching, having a "workspace"
serialization can make development and debugging a lot less painful.

> If I reload a module that changes some of those variables, I would
> like to not have to hunt down every reference in the running program
> and change it manually.

In Python the appropriate tool is weakref. Per each class that
matters, keep a weakref list of the instances. This way you can
automate the refresing. I've done that before.

regards,

Hung Jung


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Mar 18 07:52:37 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 23:42:37 +1050
Subject: dictionary wart
References: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5j825.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 18 Mar 2004 04:41:38 -0800, Jesper Olsen wrote:
> Does python have a way of defining a dictionary default? 
> I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?
>
> But surprisingly, in python set_default is a dictionary method used
> for looking up a key...

(Probably you mean setdefault(), since there's no set_default attribute
in any default Python object.)

A dict, by design, has a defined set of keys, like all mapping types.
Your "dictionary default" would change a dictionary so that it
effectively had an infinite set of keys.

    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html>

It sounds like you want an iterator, rather than a dict.

    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typeiter.html>

But without knowing the problem you're trying to solve, we can only
guess at the solution.

-- 
 \           "I got a postcard from my best friend, it was a satellite |
  `\      picture of the entire Earth. On the back he wrote, 'Wish you |
_o__)                                   were here'."  -- Steven Wright |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Fri Mar 26 12:25:30 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:25:30 -0800
Subject: monitoring a directory
References: <mailman.382.1080205904.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1068psb86ujku63@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Golden wrote:

> There are two methods that I know of (apart from the simple
> approach you describe). One is described in this recipe:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/156178
>
> This is simple to use, but falls down a bit if you have more than a few
> files in the directory, since it doesn't know what's changed. It's fine if
> you're just happy to rescan, say for a file-manager app.
>
> The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the
> recently-added-to-pywin32 win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW
> functionality.

> The other method, which is a bit more sophisticated, uses the
> recently-added-to-pywin32 win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW
> functionality.

Note that ReadDirectoryChangesW is available only on the NT platforms (XP,
2000, NT4, NT3.51 SP3). If you need portability to Win95/98/Me, you'll need
to fall back to FindFirstChangeNotification as the cookbook recipe uses.

Does win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW provide a way to tell if it's available
or not? I'd hope that win32file would simply not define
ReadDirectoryChangesW on Win9x systems, so you could code like this:

if win32file.ReadDirectoryChangesW:
    useReadDirectoryChangesW()
else:
    useFindFirstChangeNotification()

I don't see any mention of that in the docs, so you probably have to do a
version check instead:

import win32api, win32con

def isWindowsNT():
    return( win32api.GetVersionEx()[3] ==
            win32con.VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT )

if isWindowsNT():
    useReadDirectoryChangesW()
else:
    useFindFirstChangeNotification()

(To really do that right, you'd need to check the GetVersionEx return value
more thoroughly to test for NT versions prior to 3.51 SP3, which don't have
ReadDirectoryChangesW.)

-Mike




From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 16 09:29:45 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:29:45 -0000
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
References: <mailman.24.1079412738.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105e3qposs0h781@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.24.1079412738.742.python-list at python.org>,
Eric @ Zomething <eric at zomething.com> wrote:
>
>benoit wrote
>
>> I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
>> Are there libraries for this ?
>
>I'd be interested to hear if there are some good Python libraries which
>work with the ".xls" file format.  Python does have CSV, if you can
>achieve what you want by exporting the data in comma separated format
>and then manipulating it. 
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-csv.html
>
>Also, there is pyXLWriter (though I haven't tried it): 
>http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=pyXLWriter&version=0.3a1
>
>I have considered that there must be great Java libraries for MS Office
>within the OpenOffice.org suite.  It would be sweet to be able to wrap
>some algorithms from OOo source in Python, but I am not sure of the
>licensing, nor quite where in that source to find the treasure.
>
>the .xls=>XML=>PDF (etc.) would be nice to have around...
>
>

All true--and in fact there are at least a few other approaches I
know have been successful.  benoit, do write back if you're still
having difficulties.

What currently interests me about this topic is the rumors I've 
been hearing that OpenOffice is exposing Python scriptability more
and more.  The target is not just that it work in a way we developers
can figure out, but so easily as to entice end-users.  I don't "get"
OpenOffice culture yet, but I'm moving in that direction.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address  Tue Mar 23 20:48:19 2004
From: look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address (Michael A. Covington)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:48:19 -0500
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
	<PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <ltSdnejduc5-df3dRVn-uA@speedfactory.net>

My other curiosity is how it remembers that Tcl/Tk used to be in \WN16,
which no longer exists.  That information is not in the Registry.

"Michael A. Covington" <look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address> wrote
in message news:PoidnWghOfqve_3dRVn_iw at speedfactory.net...
> On the trail of figuring out why IDLE won't launch, look at this:
>
> Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import Tkinter
> >>> Tkinter._test()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 3640, in _test
>     root = Tk()
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
>     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
> _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
> directories:
>     {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.4
> C:/Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library
> This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> >>>
>
>
> Here \WN16 is where *another* TCL/TK application *used* to reside.  And
the
> TCL stuff definitely *does* exist under C:\Python23\tcl\tcl8.4 (not
> lib\tcl8.4).
>
> By default does Python 2.3.3 install itself incorrectly???!!
>
>
>
>




From qp at al.net  Wed Mar 31 20:07:00 2004
From: qp at al.net (Qp)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:07:00 -0500
Subject: How to connect multiple class instances to 1 Twisted factory?
Message-ID: <TWJac.6124$Hs1.3165@fe03.usenetserver.com>

Is this even possible?  I'm designing a simple chat and game client/server
as an intro to Python, and it would be nice to represent the different
interfaces (public chat room, private chat rooms, game instances) as totally
seperate classes and show them in totally seperate windows.

Given my basic understanding of Twisted, I see no way of doing this, and my
whole GUI is contained in one class.  The project is doable this way, it
would just be much better with multiple class and multiple window
seperation.

If anyone can give me any direction, I would appreciate it very much.

Thanks,
Qp





From and-google at doxdesk.com  Tue Mar  9 05:12:43 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 02:12:43 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403090212.13d30795@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>     from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>         LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)

+0. I don't see this as a particularly pressing problem, but the solution
is logical and readable.

> Because this represents a change in semantics, absolute imports will
> be optional in Python 2.4 through the use of ::

>     from __future__ import absolute_import

+1. (Can I have +2?)

Accidental relative imports are an annoying stumbling point for new users,
and a marginal security issue for everyone else. I'd like to see
absolute_import introduced and made default as quickly as possible.

>       from .foo import
>       from ...foo import

-1. Agree on the 'explicit is better...' criticism. This is just unclear.

>       from __pkg__.__pkg__ import

+1. I don't think it's *that* ugly, or no more ugly than what it's trying
to express. Nested parent-package-references should in any case not be that
common.

I assume you can also do a simple:

  import __pkg__.localmodule

or just:

  import __pkg__

to get the package itself (__init__ module).

I *much* prefer this to the existing implicit syntax. I'm not convinced
I prefer the shortness of __pkg__ over __parent__ or __package__, but I
don't really care much either way.

> * Finally, some people dislike the way you have to change ``import``
>   to ``from ... import`` when you want to dig inside a package.  They
>   suggest completely rewriting the ``import`` syntax

-0. Seems of extremely marginal benefit.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar  9 12:25:50 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:25:50 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>,
 Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b at posting.google.com>, Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> >> > Step away from the computer slowly . . .
> >> > 
> >> > There is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to use GOTO in any modern
> >> > language, ESPECIALLY Python, EVER!
> >> > 
> >> > No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Bull.  I've used goto's in similar cases as those presented.  I have 
> >> found that in the right cases they are quite readable.  Never had a 
> >> problem with them when used like this.
> >> 
> >> So you didn't answer the question, how would you do this clearly in 
> >> Python?
> >> 
> > 
> > same way you would do it in any other OBJECT ORIENTED language. Use
> > the appropriate pattern.
> 
> Which would be what?  (No, it's not exceptions.  Stay away from this
> thread until you understand why it's not.)
> 
> Joe

OK, I'll bite.  What's wrong with exceptions for breaking out of deeply 
nested loops?


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Thu Mar 18 08:32:27 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:32:27 GMT
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
References: <mailman.115.1079583713.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j39j50plvuk1g8tbc7md2sfbl0te4d255a@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:21:52 -0800, "Eric @ Zomething"
<eric at zomething.com> wrote:

>
>Groovy is a pretty good name, I think.  Python is pretty groovy.  Maybe Groovy will be pretty Java?
>

The *.groovy file extensions I think are less then groovy.

The Microsoft marketing folks are no doubt working on the C# response.

.paisley?

Art


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar 26 18:47:53 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:47:53 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com>

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone wrote:

> Anyway GvR just posted on the python-dev saying this:
> 
> ==
> No, I want to reserve the leading dot for attribute assignment to a
> special object specified by a 'with' statement, e.g.
> 
> with self:
>     .foo = [1, 2, 3]
>     .bar(4, .foo)
> ==
> 
> So another feature of this prothon (and a major one) is going to be a
> python one
> too.

Not quite the same, as with Prothon it looks like it always relates to
the self object, whereas in a `with' clause you can make it relates to
any object you wish.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Drifting from woman-who-tries misconstrued / Shifting to
    woman-wise -- Lamya


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sat Mar  6 18:40:44 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:40:44 +1100
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <c2d741$m3t$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.46.1078541818.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2d741$m3t$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20040306234044.GF1878@frobozz>

On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 10:57:27AM -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >Note that I've only lightly tested that code, and it's probably very
> >inefficient.
> 
> It is all right except for the string addition.  Each addition produces 
> a new string.  For a final string of length n, you will have created n 
> strings, and had to write n*(n-1)/2 = O(n^2) bytes. Ick.

That, and I suspect that reading strings in chunks, rather than 1 byte at a
time, would be much faster also.

-Andrew.




From dieter at handshake.de  Thu Mar 11 17:29:16 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 23:29:16 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <x71xnzhvb7.fsf@handshake.de>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes on 8 Mar 2004 15:24:56 -0500:
> ...
> Rationale for Parentheses
> =========================
> 
> Currently, if you want to import a lot of names from a module or
> package, you have to choose one of several unpalatable options:
> 
> * Write a long line with backslash continuations::
> 
>       from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text \
>           LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END

Why is this bad?

> * Write multiple ``import`` statements::
> 
>       from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>       from Tkinter import LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END
> 
> (``import *`` is *not* an option ;-)
> 
> Instead, it should be possible to use Python's standard grouping
> mechanism (parentheses) to write the ``import`` statement::

Do do not explain why.

> ...
> Rationale for Absolute Imports
> ==============================
> 
> In current Python, if you're reading a module located inside a
> package, it is not clear whether ::
> 
>     import foo
> 
> refers to a top-level module or to another module inside the package.
> To resolve the ambiguity, it is proposed that ``foo`` will always be a
> module or package reachable from ``sys.path``.

This will break lots of code...
I do not like it at all.

A package writer does know which external modules/packages he needs
and can avoid to use the name of one of these modules for his
own modules.

Relative imports are essential to enhance locality.
A package/module should in general not need to know
where it is located inside the package hierarchy to access
its subpackages.

We make extensive use of this locality:
We have myriads of Python packages which are essentially self contained
(apart from references to the standard library). To
avoid pollution of the Python path and name clashes, we
often organize them for concrete projects into folders.
To do this, the packages should not know where they are
located.


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Mar 18 00:10:52 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto@4ax.com>
	<m3a6c.19554$E71.1405188@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Maa6c.19565$E71.1406836@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:m3a6c.19554$E71.1405188 at news20.bellglobal.com...
[snip]
> # otherwise, you can go line by line
> source = file('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt')
> tally = 0
> for line in source:
>     if "customer" in line:
>         tally += 1
> source.close()
>
[snip]

# sorry, that should be
source = file('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt')
tally = 0
for line in source:
         tally += line.count("customer")
source.close()






From xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org  Mon Mar  8 06:50:06 2004
From: xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org (xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 06:50:06 -0500
Subject: Your message to xml-bindings awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040308115006.1134.29304.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xml-bindings' with the subject

    Re: Your bill

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Thu Mar 25 06:14:17 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:14:17 +1200
Subject: Split a string by length
In-Reply-To: <c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>

Yermat wrote:
>>> How can I do to simulate this way:
>>> 'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
>>> I tried with a 'slice' but this didn't run:
>>> [item for item in 'aabbcc'[::2]] -> ['a', 'b', 'c']
>> [...]
>  >>> import re
>  >>> re.findall(".{2}","aabbccdd")
> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd']
>  >>> re.findall(".{2}","aabbccdde")
> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd']

Now, who's gonna benchmark these n different approaches?



From nospam at freeworld.fr  Fri Mar  5 09:15:34 2004
From: nospam at freeworld.fr (Lucas Branca)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:15:34 GMT
Subject: reg exp and octal notation
Message-ID: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it>

Could someone explain me the difference between the results below?

## $cat octals.txt
## \006\034abc

import re

a= "\006\034abc"
preg= re.compile(r'([\0-\377]*)')
res = preg.search(a)
print res.groups()

loader = open('./octals.txt', 'r')
b = loader.readline()
preg= re.compile(r'([\0-\377]*)')
res = preg.search(b)
print res.groups()


RESULTS

('\x06\x1cabc',)

('\\006\\034abc\n',)


Many thanks
Lucas




From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  1 19:45:01 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:45:01 +1300
Subject: How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of
 Rubycompared to Python?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc3qm17.kc4.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <bf23f78f.0402241443.678bf6c8@posting.google.com>
	<c1h1sb$1it26i$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc3ob0q.i6n.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.100.1077717447.8594.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc3q0j8.jm5.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<t5fq30l29nidjh1tsksm8jlld03ff3av5o@4ax.com>
	<slrnc3qm17.kc4.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c20leg$1m5mo8$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Joe Mason wrote:
> I didn't think Pascals and Basics supported function pointers at all,
> but I haven't used them since high school, so maybe I just didn't
> encounter them at the time.

Some Basics would let you use the result of an expression as a
line number in a GOTO or GOSUB, just in case there weren't already
enough ways to turn your code into spaghetti. Those that didn't
usually had ON...GOTO and ON...GOSUB statements that could be used
to achieve much the same effect.

Pascal lets you pass a procedure as a parameter to another
procedure (but not store it in a variable, due to scope issues).
It's likely this wouldn't have been mentioned in an introductory
Pascal course, however, as it would have been considered a
somewhat esoteric feature.

Later Wirth languages (Modula, Oberon) do let you have procedure
variables. But they can only point to top-level procedures, not
nested ones. One step forward, one back...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 15:06:15 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:06:15 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4f8hr$ile$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> GUI's seem to be more like documents than programs, so I wonder why
> we're not considering more declarative type interface builders.  Is
> there such a thing,  maybe that writes out a standard specification
> file instead of code?  If it were XML, you could write a XSL filter to
> make the all the modifications you needed to accomodate a different
> platform.

Dude, you should really check out the wxXMLResource and 
wxXMLResourceHandler.  I don't use XML to write GUIs, but if I did, 
those would be my savior.

Download the wxPython demo and give it a look.

  - Josiah


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 07:58:05 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:58:05 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106ev65lpu59614@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>	<106eo695a9t8820@news.supernews.com>
	<106ev65lpu59614@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40681D5D.70604@stackless.com>

John Roth wrote:
...
> Sigh. I'm replying to my own post. After I posted this, I
> remembered that something needs to be done to set up an
> inheritance chain among instances. That requires a custom
> __getattribute__() magic method, which will not be all that
> easy to write.

Yeah. And I have even no clue how to get multiple
inheritance right with prototypes.
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From atulkshirsagar at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 02:54:39 2004
From: atulkshirsagar at yahoo.com (Atul Kshirsagar)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:54:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
Message-ID: <20040315075439.16435.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,
I am using Python 2.3.2 with a C++ extention DLL in 
muti-threaded environment.

1. For each new thread I create a separate
sub-interpreter. 
2. Each thread executes multiple python statements
calling the class objects in my extention DLL.
3. Before each execution I import my extention module
using;
import myModule
4. I destoy each sub-interpreter at the end of that
particular thread.
5. Python initialization and finalization happens in
the main thread.

I am observing that;
As explained above when multiple threads are running.
And as one of these threads finishes, in other running
threads I start getting "TypeError: 'NoneType' object
is not callable" error on the methods called on class
objects in extention module.

Does anyone know why this might be happening ? Is
there any specific way I should be using Python and
Extention modules in multi-threaded environment ?

Any help is appreciated !!!
Thanks,
Atul Kshirsagar

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From egusenet at verizon.net  Thu Mar 25 16:18:21 2004
From: egusenet at verizon.net (Eric)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:18:21 -0500
Subject: [Way OT] Condorcet vs. IRV
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc63985.3n2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<89feb3ba.0403241233.32ea8604@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc640d3.4dn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<1gb7bj1.xgiqcjp3ro1iN%egusenet@verizon.net>
	<slrnc66do0.6qg.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <1gb7o9h.bppzlf33xb5sN%egusenet@verizon.net>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> One interesting approach was brought up on the elections list just
> before I stopped reading it.  (Wait, don't I recognize your name from
> there?  You'd be more familiar with it than I, but I'll bring it up
> anyway, on the assumption that there are other interested readers out
> there.)
> 
> Add an implicit "none" candidate to separate rankings of actual
> preferences from least of the evils.  Your first case becomes "A > C >
> none > B", and the second (probably) "A > none > C > B".  So in the
> latter case, the voter is saying that they prefer C to B, but only if
> forced to choose between them due to overwhelming preference by the rest
> of the electorate.
> 
> I'd be grateful if you can point me to a thorough analysis of this idea,
> since it sounds reasonable to me but I don't really have the background
> to evaluate it.

You can find the full archives at:

  http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/

I used the grep expression: 

  >[\s]*none[\s]*> 

to find various messages related to it.

It does seem to be an interesting idea and one that I was unfamiliar
with...I have not investigated it fully.

Off the top of my head, the only inherent problem with it that I see is
that what happens if 'NONE' turns out to be the Condorcet Winner? 

An election is about finding a winner, providing for a result where this
would not occur seems problematic unless one is using a Condorcet method
where a strict (but not necessarily unique) ordering of the candidates
can be found, in which case one can just select the #2 person.

One such method that I am aware of is MAM
(http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~seppley/).



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Mar 25 11:00:19 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:00:19 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<c3uk3u$57a$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3ulvf$ral$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<c3uolr$gds$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3uqb0$7a8$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <40630318$0$147$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Yermat <loic at fejoz.net> wrote:

>Make it simple... Finally the chunklist or chunks are my favorite for 
>general chunk function. For string I would have use the regexp anyway...

Functions can be arguments too. Combining that with making them
optional and having a default:

from itertools import islice

def groupby(seq,n,exhaust = list):
    it = iter(seq)
    res = exhaust(islice(it,n))
    while res:
        yield res
        res = exhaust(islice(it,n))
        
def test():
    seq = [[],[],[],[],[]]
    print list(groupby(seq,2))
    s = 'aabbccdde'
    print list(groupby(s,2,''.join))

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

output:

[[[], []], [[], []], [[]]]
['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd', 'e']



Anton




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 12:49:03 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:49:03 -0800
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
In-Reply-To: <40509cc2$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<110320040725438317%bscholln@mac.com>
	<40509cc2$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c2stc0$gds$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> files must not be modified, index file contains on one line a key and an
> offset which can be use to go directly to data file.

Keep the index in memory.

When you need to access a location that has an index in your data file:

data = open('data_file', 'rb')
data.seek(<index>)
data.read(<however much is needed>)

For most tasks, that should be fast enough.  If you want to cache some 
recently read data, check this cookbook entry:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/252524

  - Josiah


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 19 22:58:03 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:58:03 -0000
Subject: Python / COM / Word
Message-ID: <c3gfh1$10p$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hello,
         I'm having a little trouble trying to automate Word (2002).  I'm
hoping to be able to create and process documents relatively independently
of any existing open word documents.  e.g.  When I have an existing document
open and I enter the following at the command line any documents I create
are visible, until setting wordApp.Visible to False, when all the documents
are hidden.

>>> import win32com.client
>>> wordApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')
>>> wordApp.Visible
True
>>> wordApp.Visible = False

Ideally I'd like to have independent 'Word instances', so I can hack around
to my heart's content without jeopardising documents opened and created by
some hapless user (which would also be me).  At the very least I need to
keep the documents I'm creating hidden, whilst leaving existing documents
visible.  Any ideas?  Cheers.

Duncan




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar 14 12:32:38 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:32:38 +0100
Subject: Scaling an ImageTk.PhotoImage
References: <s04d8fdd.072@icr.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c32572$1bf$1@sea.gmane.org>

James Anderson wrote:

> I'm have a bitmap which I can display as an ImageTk.PhotoImage and would
> like to display it and double or quadruple size.  The bitmap itself is
> generated inside my program, so converting it to another format isn't
> really practical.  Does anyone know an easy way to do this?

did you mean Tkinter.PhotoImage?

if you really mean ImageTk.PhotoImage, is there any reason you
cannot just resize the original Image object, and wrap it in a new
ImageTk.PhotoImage object?

</F>






From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Mar 11 09:56:41 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 15:56:41 +0100
Subject: Cgi: Print Text files with wordwrap!
References: <Xns94A8A266DCF19GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<Xns94A8F2937636daleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>
Message-ID: <wzy8q75t5i.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> "Dale Strickland-Clak" <dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk> (DS) wrote:

DS> If you send plain text, it will be presented exactly how you send it, line 
DS> breaks and all.

DS> If you want it to wrap to the browser window, you have to make it look 
DS> like HTML. The bare minimum you can get away with is <p> tags where you 
DS> want new paragraphs - plus a head and a tail.

And you should replace < > and & by &lt; &gt; and &amp;
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 27 20:08:50 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:08:50 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<mailman.478.1080414476.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g99c60p75iih5enat5vog8eimoc0fugils@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:07:51 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>Tim Peters used to complain often enough that email messages I posted which
>contained bits of Python code I typed into them contained mixtures of tabs
>and spaces

GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN!!!

>Tim hasn't complained about that aspect of my Python since then.  (Other
>things, yes, but not tabs).

When reading other peoples code, there is *always* something to
complain about ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:34:10 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:34:10 -0500
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
In-Reply-To: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Asier wrote:

> Is there any plan to make bindings of the future fox toolkit 1.2.x for
> python? New widgets, antialiased fonts and so on is a "Good Thing".
> 
> GTK is a pain, wxpython is horribly slow, and tkinter doesn't have
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your experience is clearly at odds with what most other people report 
about wxPython.  (And, I might add, about GTK, as far as I can tell, 
though I haven't used it myself.)

-Peter


From alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net  Fri Mar  5 07:34:16 2004
From: alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net (Alexander DEJANOVSKI)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:34:16 +0100
Subject: Retic EAI server : looking for contributors
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305131817.01f331e8@127.0.0.1>

For those who don't know Retic, it is an EAI solution that was formerly 
developed in Python, and now moved to Jython. (http://retic.sourceforge.net)
The python releases of Retic came in the early days of the project and were 
pretty buggy. The Jython version has now a nice set of features and is 
gaining, step-by-step, fame over the internet (type "eai server" in google 
and you'll get it on the first pages).

I've had to stop developing the Python version of Retic because of my 
inexperience in what the Python world offers as frameworks or communication 
modules (Twisted, Zope, and for sure many others I don't know).

Two people recently offered me their contribution to restart Python Retic 
development.

I think the Python community should have such software (call it EAI or ETL, 
the difference isn't always clear), which is heavily required in the 
enterprise world.

Anyone willing to participate, at any level of contribution, is welcome and 
should contact me : alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net (please include Retic 
in the subject to get past my spam filter).

The plan is to re-design PyRetic (the python version of Retic), basing it 
on mature Python frameworks (twisted) and to grow both PyRetic and JyRetic, 
thus, providing enterprise-class open source EAI to the Python community 
and the Java community at the same time.


Hoping to ear from some of you real soon.

Alexander


PS : people thinking this is not a good initiative should feel free to tell 
me so (and explain why).




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Mar 28 12:21:15 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:21:15 -0500
Subject: Breakdown of approaches to PEP318
References: <7vD9c.318$1A6.114130@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <ZPD9c.340$1A6.121050@news20.bellglobal.com>

One more:

# [12] based on
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043613.html
[publish_to_web]
def foo(self):
        {spark_rule:"DOC:= HEAD BODY FOOT",
url="/cgi-bin/directory/directory"}
        "doc string"
        body




From alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 14:32:51 2004
From: alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com (Alex)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:32:51 +0100
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Thank you very much for the reply!

In fact I created a list in a variable and I have to create x numbers of
butons, depending on how many values there's in the list.

so in my code:
for x in range(nbSujets):
  self.button1 = xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30, "B"+str(x) )
  self.addControl(self.button1)

But in fact I need self.buttonX as I need different actions on each button.
And the dictionnary here doesn't help I think...
I may find tricks to cheat, but it would make dirty code or bad results on
screen...

So any hint to make this work ?

Thanks again

Alex







From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Tue Mar  2 14:26:13 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 19:26:13 GMT
Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
References: <nv2dnbEFoeS4WN7dRVn-sA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4044dfd5$0$28142$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:20:10 -0600, Larry Bates <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:
> I have tried everything I know to get my NT service
> to make correct entries in the NT Event Log when the
> service is started and stopped (and eventually when
> permanent failures occur).
> 
> I also inserted the following to make the proper
> registry entries when the service is installed:
> 
> win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
>     'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\PythonService.exe',
>     'Application')

Second parameter seems too be a filepath, try to use raw strings : 
   r'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\PythonService.exe'
and launch regedit to check registry entries.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
> 
Regards,


From sean_berry at cox.net  Thu Mar 25 21:12:22 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:12:22 -0800
Subject: How do i cast a string to be used as a module?
Message-ID: <9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277@fed1read03>

In article <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601 at fed1read07>,
sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry) writes:
> I don't know that this partilarily bad programming,
> but I was interested in doing the following.
>
> def functionname( module, var1, var2 ):
> import module
>
> I would like to be able to pass the module name
> as an argument and have the module imported as a result.
>
> For instance... functionname( os, "1", 234)
>
> Thanks for any help.

Thanks for the help, and exec("import "+modname)
does indeed import the module.

But, what if I want to call a function from within this
module that takes as an argument the name of a module.

For example if I was making a module like the following

import inspect

def functionname( modname ):
    exec("import "+modname)
    s = inspect.getsource( modname )
    return s

How do I cast modname as a module name and not as a string?

Thanks.




From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Tue Mar  2 11:20:03 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:20:03 +0100 
Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F006603DCC@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Would you mind sharing the complete source code for this service? I guess
there must be something wrong in there.

cheers,


pieter

Creo
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Larry Bates
Sent: 02 March 2004 17:11
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: NT Services and EventLog problems

I made the change, but get the exact same error message.

I went back and checked the book again and it reads
(on page 359):

"The files PythonService.exe, win32evtlog.pyd, and
win32service.pyd each have a set of generic messages.
Each file has nine messages for each of the classes
Error, Informational, Warning, and Success."

I tried all three of these AND servicemanager.pyd
and I can't make any of them work.

Mark Hammond, are you out there anywhere?

Regards,
Larry

"Pieter Claerhout" <Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.14.1078214898.12614.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Larry,
>
> try the following:
>
> win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
>     'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\servicemanager.pyd',
>     'Application')
>
> The PythonService.exe doesn't contain the messages, but servicemanager.pyd
> does.
>
> cheers,
>
>
> pieter
>
> Creo
> pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
> pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com
>
> IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On
Behalf
> Of Larry Bates
> Sent: 02 March 2004 00:20
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
>
> I have tried everything I know to get my NT service
> to make correct entries in the NT Event Log when the
> service is started and stopped (and eventually when
> permanent failures occur).
>
> I'm copying the code I see on page 356 of Python
> Programming on Win32 and for the life of me I cannot
> get this to work properly.  Basically I have
> the following code snippet at the top of my SvcDoRun
> method:
>
> import servicemanager
> servicemanager.LogMsg(
>     servicemanager.EVENTLOG_INFORMATION_TYPE,
>     servicemanager.PYS_SERVICE_STARTED,
>     (self._svc_name_,''))
>
> I also inserted the following to make the proper
> registry entries when the service is installed:
>
> win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
>     'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\PythonService.exe',
>     'Application')
>
> The entry that gets put into the Event Log is as follows:
>
> The description for Event ID ( 4098 ) in Source
> ( PythonService ) cannot be found. The local computer
> may not have the necessary registry information or
> message DLL files to display messages from a remote
> computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE=
> flag to retrieve this description; see Help and
> Support for details. The following information is
> part of the event: AFR, .
>
> Note:  _svc_name_="AFR"
>
> Something is not set correctly, but for the life of me
> I cannot determine what.
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>
> Regards,
> Larry Bates
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From robichon at esrf.fr  Mon Mar 22 05:02:51 2004
From: robichon at esrf.fr (MarieR)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 02:02:51 -0800
Subject: Syntax of 'in' : searching a list for a string
Message-ID: <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Sorry for my newbie question:

I want to check whether the string 'Remove' is present in a list 'supportList',
but if I do 

if ('Remove') in supportList: 

or 

if 'Remove' in supportList:

I get the error message

'in ' requires character as left operand.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Marie


From geloilzi at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 17 10:43:32 2004
From: geloilzi at hotmail.com (Gelo Ilzi)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:43:32 +0200
Subject: simple http server
Message-ID: <c39rul$dri$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

I'm trying to implement a very simple http server with cgi functionality.
The code is simple:

   import CGIHTTPServer, BaseHTTPServer
   httpd = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(('',8000),
CGIHTTPServer.CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
   httpd.serve_forever()

I've created a subdir 'cgi-bin' which contains a python script. Now when I
enter this directory, i.e., go to the url http://localhost:8000/cgi-bin/  my
browser shows:

   Error response
   Error code 403.
   Message: CGI script is not a plain file ('/cgi-bin/').
   Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will not
help.

Plain html pages are ok.

It seems I misunderstand something very basical. Could somebody help me
please.

Thank you in advance.




From http  Thu Mar 11 07:31:03 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 04:31:03 -0800
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
References: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7x65db4lbs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Look at the mmap and array modules.  Mmap lets you directly access
the disk files by mapping them into memory.  The array module lets
you read those big files into memory without the overhead of tuple
or list structure (but of course your application must then interpret
the contents).

Beyond that, we need more specific info to make more concrete
suggestions.


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:41:47 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:41:47 +1300
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
In-Reply-To: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2rbht$20e9bh$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jay Davis wrote:
> I use xemacs and syntax highlighting for my IDE, but I'm not a big
> fan of the default syntax highlighting colors.  For instance,
> in 'def fun():' both 'def' and 'fun' are the same color.

Funny you should mention this -- just today I set up
some custom colours for xemacs. I have my keywords set
to blue and function names to red (which is what it
used to be like in an earlier version of xemacs, and
I liked it better that way.)

My .emacs file currently contains:

(require 'font-lock)
(set-face-foreground 'font-lock-function-name-face "red3")
(set-face-foreground 'font-lock-keyword-face "blue3")
(set-face-foreground 'font-lock-comment-face "dark green")
(set-face-foreground 'font-lock-type-face "blue3")

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Wed Mar 24 10:15:12 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:15:12 +0100
Subject: zxJDBC driver error
Message-ID: <4061A600.40001@zslide.com>

    hi all,

i'm trying to use the zxJDBC module to work on my mySql database, but :
 >>> from com.ziclix.python.sql import zxJDBC
 >>> d, u, p, v = "jdbc:mysql://localhost/test", "user", "pass", 
"org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver"
 >>> db = zxJDBC.connect(d, u, p, v)

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
DatabaseError: driver not found

any idea ?

thx
vince



From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Mar 24 07:03:13 2004
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:03:13 -0600
Subject: Decent way to trace resource leaks?
References: <87r7vk7dnc.fsf@strauser.com>
Message-ID: <1062u833j68aie6@corp.supernews.com>

While you are waiting for the book to be written, here is a simple hack that
can be useful:

# WARNING: the id trick is flawed: newly allocated objects can have the same
address as old objects.

global lastObjectsDict
objects = gc.get_objects()

newObjects = [o for o in objects if not lastObjectsDict.has_key(id(o))]

lastObjectsDict = {}
for o in objects:
 lastObjectsDict[id(o)]=o

As noted in the comment, this has a flaw, but so what?  It will show you
most of what has been allocated since the last time the code was executed.
Naturally, you will put this code in a function of some kind...

I think you will find that relatively simple traces, if called in judicious
places, will be highly effective in finding out most of what is going on in
even a complex app.  You know more about your app than any general tool
possibly can: use that knowledge!

The easiest way to increase the signal-to-noise ratio in traces is to use
strategies that are unique to your app.  For example, rather than trying to
"perfect" the code above in general, you can specialize the code to trace
your app's most important data in a format that is most useful to you.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------






From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Wed Mar 10 05:05:10 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 02:05:10 -0800
Subject: How to downgrade/remove ZODB (or any other module)?
Message-ID: <282f826a.0403100205.5d6070e4@posting.google.com>

Hi - I have just installed ZODB for the first time. However after I'd
finished I realised that I'd installed a development release and not a
stable release so I'd like to downgrade or remove the current
installation and start again.

I installed via a Windows installer from which I could extract a list
of files and then manually remove (there are 290 files) but is there
some less labourious way of  removing a module ?

Thanks

Richard Shea.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 31 09:11:36 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:11:36 -0600
Subject: CSV to Browser Bookmark file
In-Reply-To: <Xns94BC88066E562billbispnetau@218.214.224.6>
References: <Xns94BC88066E562billbispnetau@218.214.224.6>
Message-ID: <16490.53656.592454.606714@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Bill" == Bill  <billb at isp.net.au> writes:

    Bill> I currently have all of my Bookmarks under WinXP in a PIM, which
    Bill> will allow me to export them as a CSV file ( fields are
    Bill> "Category,Page-Title,URL,Comments - all fields of no fixed
    Bill> length).

    Bill> Is there a program/script that will output the info from csv to a
    Bill> browser bookmark file - Any browser as I want to move the
    Bill> bookmarks from Windows to Linux - unfortunately the PIM wont run
    Bill> under Wine in Linux and I am not a programmer so I have no idea
    Bill> how to convert the file.

I don't know what your output format is supposed to look like, but reading
the input CSV file is trivial.  Assuming it's named "mybookmarks.csv", you
can read it and emit some HTML fragments using something like this:

    import csv

    rdr = csv.DictReader(file("mybookmarks.csv"))
    for row in rdr:
        print '<a href="%(URL)s">%(Page-Title)s</a>' % row

There's going to be more to the output side of things than that.  Save your
browser's bookmarks as an HTML file and look at it for hints of what other
print statements you need.

Skip



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Mar 20 12:07:13 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:07:13 -0600
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
In-Reply-To: <m3r7vnfrdw.fsf@localhost.localdomain> (Edwin Young's message
	of "20 Mar 2004 07:51:55 -0800")
References: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.28.1079374809.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<m3oequ9nyw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.135.1079628330.742.python-list@python.org>
	<m3r7vnfrdw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m21xnnbg72.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Edwin" == Edwin Young <edwin at localhost.localdomain> writes:

    Edwin> That looks fine, but ideally I want to avoid having
    Edwin> complicated dependencies- I don't want my program to be one
    Edwin> of the ones that require you to download ten others just to
    Edwin> run them. Pygtk itself seems to be pretty widely
    Edwin> distributed in popular distributions, but
    Edwin> PyGTK-with-Numeric isn't.

I brought this up with Cedric Gustin, the pygtk win32 installer
distributer, because I need Numeric support for matplotlib, and he
immediately built and uploaded pygtk for windows with Numeric (and
will do likewise for future builds).

http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq21.012.htp

JDH



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 05:16:05 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (chad)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 02:16:05 -0800
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14b36d18.0403050216.ad3a7f5@posting.google.com>

Hi, Thanks.

I downloaded PyXML from sourceforge, but could not install it.  When I
double click the install file, it asks me to go next and choose the
folder to install it, but then it gives me no choice to choose from. 
It seems the installer cannot get my file system info.

I am using Python on Win2K.


"David LeBlanc" <whisper at oz.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.3.1078448959.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> > Hello, all,
> > 
> > I am new to Python.
> > 
> > I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and write only
> > those between the tags to a text file.  In other words, if I have an
> > XML document like so:
> > 
> > <tag1>This</tag1>
> >     <tag2>is</tag2>
> >        <tag3>a</tag3>
> > <tag1>test</tag1>
> > 
> > I need to write "This is a test" to a text file.  How do I achieve
> > this?    Thanks.
> 
> PyXML would be a perfect solution - and easy too.
> 
> Dave LeBlanc
> Seattle, WA USA


From rdjdvd at inwind.it  Mon Mar 29 01:24:09 2004
From: rdjdvd at inwind.it (RDJ)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 22:24:09 -0800
Subject: FreeMindLicense - Used with Pyples (Interactive Python Examples)
Message-ID: <c88425e6.0403282224.701dcc55@posting.google.com>

/\/\
         /\  /\
        /  \/  \ |
          \      |
           \     \
-----------/ O    \-------
----------/_      /-------
-----------/_/   /--------
===========\____/=========
==========================


*** FreeMindLicense ***
***********************

1. The free mind create the free product.

2. The product is any human creation: the text, the program, the
image, the music, the video, the...(other).

3. My product is your product. You can do any action with my product:
to copy, to change, to publish, to distribute, to sell, to...(other),
but you must use this license.

4. Your product is my product. I can do any action with your product:
to copy, to change, to publish, to distribute, to sell, to...(other),
but I must use this license.

5. From free source to free product, to...(other).


--- FreeProductsList ---

Any field is optional:

Date: [yyyy/dd/mm]
Type: [image,music,program,text,video,...]
Name: [product name]
Description: [short description]
Author: [name or nick-name]
Site: [www.first.org,www.second.org,...]
E-mail: [first at email.org,second at email.org,...]
Other: [short text]

--------------------------------------------------

Date: 2004/03/27
Type: image,program,text
Name: pyples
Description: Interactive Python Examples
Author: RDJ
Site: spazioinwind.libero.it/rdjhome
E-mail: rdjdvd at inwind.it

--------------------------------------------------


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Mar 31 17:24:12 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:24:12 -0500
Subject: Metaclass presentation + code samples online
Message-ID: <406B450C.3090509@rogers.com>

For the 99.999% of you not reading my blog, I have posted my metaclass 
presentation from PyCon 2004 along with code samples for the same on my 
site.  You can get them here:

    http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/programming/

Have fun all,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From bart3rNOSPAM at clinicdesignNOSPAM.com.au  Thu Mar 25 22:58:50 2004
From: bart3rNOSPAM at clinicdesignNOSPAM.com.au (bart3rNOSPAM at clinicdesignNOSPAM.com.au)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:28:50 +1030
Subject: http request doesn't work!
Message-ID: <lga760lrot49331hc43mcp9fd0i8vfufi6@4ax.com>

Could someone please let me know what i'm doing wrong here:


#!/usr/bin/python

import httplib

WEB_SITE = 'adsl.internode.on.net'
#WEB_SITE = 'www.google.com'
#PAGE_PATH = '/about.html'
PAGE_PATH = '/htm/un-metered-sites-ip-list.htm'
http = httplib.HTTP(WEB_SITE)
http.putrequest('GET', PAGE_PATH)
http.putheader('Accept', 'text/html')
http.putheader('Accept', 'text/plan')
http.endheaders()
httpcode, httpmsg, headers = http.getreply()
print 'msg: ' + httpmsg
print httpcode
doc = http.getfile()
data = doc.read()
doc.close()
print data




The output of the above is different if you go to the following in
your browser:
http://adsl.internode.on.net/htm/un-metered-sites-ip-list.htm


Whats my problem?!?!??!


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Wed Mar 24 19:24:23 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:24:23 -0800
Subject: Globbing in List Search?
References: <4LGdndsGmLrdv__dRVn-tw@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <OeSdndZlc6cou__dRVn-gg@centurytel.net>

To answer my own post,

k = x.index(filter(lambda x: x.startswith(term), x)[0])

where "term" acts like it has an implicit "*" at the end.

Any better ideas?

Ed Suominen wrote:

> Does Python have a globbing-type list search capability, like "lsearch
> -glob $list" in TCL?



From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Mon Mar  8 07:51:47 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 04:51:47 -0800
Subject: Python distribution as secondary language ..???
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0403080451.541d6ef2@posting.google.com>

i have developed a small exe prgram with VC++ 6 on win32 platform, in
which i used python as SECOndary language.(IT IS EMBEDED).
Now i want to know how to distribute my exe application to machine on
which Python in installed.plz let me know WHICH dlls,pyd files
required to distribut ?

Here plz note that i embeded python with vc++
i used py2exe for pure python distribution..but confused with vc++ 6.0

thanX in +vance


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Tue Mar  2 14:00:25 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 11:00:25 -0800
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0403021100.400af290@posting.google.com>

paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590 at posting.google.com>...
> I just re-read "Why Python?" at
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882
> The article is from 2000 and shows how a programmer who programmed in
> many programming languages, and who wrote compilers and interpreters,
> was introduced to Python and came to like it.
> 
> I wondered if there are any more recent interviews/articles from ESR
> on his scripting language tools. I would be interested to know if he
> still usesPython? Did he try any other "scripting" languages such as
> Ruby or Lua?
> 
> I'm going to add the article to my bookmarks for ammo in trying to
> change my strictly Perl workplace to at least consider Python.
> 
> (I should add that I do know of most of the good advocacy resources
> available, I've  collected them from answers to other peoples posts,
> thanks).
> 
> Thanks again,  Paddy.

Oh, no! I sent the above, then found the right thing to search for in
Google and came up with this interview from January:
  http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3306511

It seems ESR is still a Pythoneer, and I have another important
article to add to my trove.

Thanks for the other replies, Ill follow them up to.


From NAVMSE-SERVER2 at computery.ru  Tue Mar  2 05:37:18 2004
From: NAVMSE-SERVER2 at computery.ru (NAVMSE-SERVER2)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:37:18 +0300
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent. The
	infected attachment was deleted.
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From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:24:57 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:24:57 -0600
Subject: test for nan
Message-ID: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


I have a C extension module that is returning some doubles.  When the
doubles get out of range, the numbers print as 'nan'.

Is there a better way to test for NaN than

   str(p1)=='nan'

where p1 is a float?

python2.3

Thanks,
John Hunter



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Mar  3 14:01:57 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:01:57 -0600
Subject: building portable win32 extensions
Message-ID: <m23c8pzrdm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


I'm using mingw to build python extensions.  To ensure maximum
portability across windows platforms (98, ME, NT, XP) is it a good
idea to build on a lowest common denominator system, eg, 98, or should
it not matter?  I'm worried, for example, that windows ME might have a
funny system library that end up in the pyd and other systems will
fail to link.

John Hunter



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 08:38:18 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:38:18 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <40681B2B.2080106@stackless.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<4067C167.5050708@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40681B2B.2080106@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <406826CA.6070107@mlug.missouri.edu>


> I think there are enough editors available to be able
> to use one with fixed font.

Exactly. I'd say the same thing about the problem with tabs. If your 
editor has some weird issue with tabs then fix it or use a different 
editor. It seems a bit odd to me that it's an issue at all.

> worse: you can lose indentation and totally mess up
> The problems with mixed tabs and spaces are even
>
> You gave the best example by yourself: Use different editors,
> even with fixed fonts, and you will wonder how they try
> to "optimize" your tabs. Some try to help you with the indentation,
> but they use tabs, even if you are not aware of it.
> I don't say it is a hard problem. But it is an extra complication
> which consumes a reasonable amount of Python code to check/repair,
> like tabnanny.

Why should an editor change anything in your program at all unless you 
tell it to? If it's changing tabs to spaces or vice versa then it sucks. 
If I want something optimized I'll enter a command telling it to do so. 
Otherwise hands off.

> Becuase there are editors which default to tab==4 spaces
> and some with tab==8 spaces. I have this problem still all
> over the place in the C code of the Python implementation.
> I like tab==4 spaces quite much, and it is the default for
> Visual Studio. But sources which are edited in Linux most of
> the time, seem to default to tab==8 spaces.
> It is very convenient, I agree. But I would like to teach
> my editor to convert to tabs for editing only, and then
> change them back to spaces on saving. :-)

Who cares how an editor displays code as long as it's smart enough not 
to assume things and change that code. Save a tab as a tab and you can 
display the tab anyway you want and it shouldn't matter. The whole idea 
of having to make your editor imagine tabs when editing and save as 
spaces seems to be an example of needless checking and repair as you 
mentioned before. Why not just use tabs? Whatever is more convient for 
editing should be the standard. Anyone that wants a 1 space tab is free 
to configure their editor to make tabs take one space. It'd be incorrect 
to set your editor to make a space take four or eight spaces if actting 
as indention. If I enter a tab in my editing of code then it is saved to 
the file as a tab and not as any number of spaces at all. How is that 
undesirable? I'd be just as annoyed if I typed a given number of spaces 
and found it saved as a tab in my file. Either behavior would indicate a 
poorly designed editor.

> Well, I don't think it is about removing a feature, but
> about removing a problem. Which basically cannot be completely
> solved, as long as tabs and different editors exist...

A tab is a tab. This sounds like adding complexity in the effort to 
avoid complexity. If your editors are broken then stop using them.



From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 01:53:25 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:53:25 GMT
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724 at posting.google.com>, Michele Simionato wrote:
> 1. The metaclass can raise the error *before* the metaclass is created,
>    whereas the function works a posteriori, *after* the overriding is done;
>    if find it to be conceptually unsatisfactory, I don't want to create
>    a class just to throw it away. The alternative is to use a class factory,
>    but then I have just re-invented a metaclass with an ugly call syntax.

In this case, you shouldn't worry about that, since presumably you're
just using it during development so it'll never be called anyway in the
release version.

> 2. The metaclass can be inherited, so the check is automatic for all children;
>    on the contrary, I have to call the function by hand each time I define
>    a new class. This means writing twice the class name, which is error
>    prone if I later rename the class and I forget to update the function
>    call.

You could just put the function call in your base class's __init__
method.  (Or, in fact, put the code from that call directly there, if
you only care when you inherit from the one Zope class.)

> BTW, I wonder how Prothon would solve this problem, i.e. selectively 
> forbidding the overriding of names, with an easy of use/elegance 
> comparable to the Python metaclass solution.

__init__ method, I believe.  But I just realized something - how does
Prothon (or prototyped languages in general) handle multiple
inheritance or mixins?

> [*] I would be curious to know if Guido decided to expose metaclasses in 
> Python since he noticed that they were already being used in real applications 
> such as Zope (in some hidden form), or if there was some other reason.

http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#metaclasses has some
references you might find interesting.

Joe


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar 16 20:10:42 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:10:42 +1300
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c388ik$24slfg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roy Smith wrote:
> Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string 
> "four",

Actually, C++ (and C) will:

cosc353% cat foo.c
#include <stdio.h>
main() {
   const char *s = "four" + 3;
   printf("%s\n", s);
}
cosc353% g++ foo.c -o foo
cosc353% foo
r

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Tue Mar 23 08:30:23 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 05:30:23 -0800
Subject: py2exe,cx-freez and pyGTK on win32 !!!
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0403230530.46b6b90a@posting.google.com>

hello ,

i developed a small app with pygtk 2.2
python 2.3.
while Running standalone exe its giving ERROR ...

'''''''''''''''''
D:\Somesh\pycad-sep\dist>demo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "demo.py", line 4, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0\gtk\glade.pyd", line 4, in ?

ImportError: cannot import name Widget from gtk._gtk

'''''''''''''''
this error is in both cases of exe generated with Py2exe and cx-freeze 
plz try to get me out of this problem !!

ThyaX in +vance !

somesh


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 14:38:57 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:38:57 -0000
Subject: [Numeric] why is Float32 incorrect for ufuncs?
References: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <c280j7$hr9$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>


"Curzio Basso" <curzio.basso at unibas.ch> wrote in message
news:404757b9$1 at maser.urz.unibas.ch...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am a beginner with Numerical Python, and there is a thing I do not
> understand in the behaviour of the ufuncs. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
>
> Why is the following not working?
>
>  >>> import Numeric
>  >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32)
>  >>> a
> array([[ 1.,  1.],
>         [ 1.,  1.]],'f')
>  >>> a/=2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: return array has incorrect type
>
> If I use Numeric.Float64 as typecode everything works fine, but I do not
> understand why is this needed.
>
> thanks for your help. curzio.
>

What *I think* is happening is that Numeric is converting the integer to a
rank-0 array of type Int64 before division.  The consequence is an upcast to
Float64 for the return array.  Look for 'Coercion and Casting' in the
Numeric documentation.  Cheers.

Duncan




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar 18 14:46:04 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:46:04 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
In-Reply-To: <7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>

Isaac To schrieb:
>     Peter> That's not really a conversion. '1' is 0x31 in memory and 0x31 >
>     Peter> 1.
> 
> That's really not a conversion, but not because '1' is 0x31 in memory.  It
> is because C defines '1' to be equivalent to (in every respect, including
> type) the integer to represent it---which is 49 (0x31) in most computers we
> use today. 

The mapping of '1' to 0x31 is defined by ASCII which is used by C. If a C
instruction retrieves a char it reads data from an adress and if there is
a 0x31 stored at the adress C treats it as '1'. My short form of this is
"'1' is 0x31 in memory".

>     Peter> Unlike C, Python's comparison results for different types are
>     Peter> defined in a strange but archicture independent way, see Python
>     Peter> Library Reference 2.3.3.
> 
> Also untrue.  Python's comparison result is dependent on implementation, so
> even in the same computer, two different Python implementation can give you
> different results; and you cannot make any assumption in different
> platforms.

I didn't talk about different programs but different machines (architecture).
Python Standard Library (Comparison) has this

Implementation note: Objects of different types except numbers are
ordered by their type names;

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas


> Regards,
> Isaac.


-- 
Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From alet at librelogiciel.com  Sun Mar 21 12:34:30 2004
From: alet at librelogiciel.com (Jerome Alet)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:34:30 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyKota v1.18 is out !
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.21.17.34.27.824265@librelogiciel.com>

Hi there

I'm pleased to announce that PyKota v1.18 Final is out.

PyKota is an entirely Python written, GNU GPLed, centralized, full
featured, internationalized, and easily extensible, print quota and
accounting solution for CUPS and LPRng under Unix like systems like
GNU/Linux.

PyKota can store its datas either in PostgreSQL or in OpenLDAP, and
integrating PyKota with an existing LDAP directory is really easy thanks
to PyKota's unprecedented flexibility.

Summary of Changes :

  - Many bug fixes, especially wrt users and printers groups, 
    which seem to work fine now, even with deeply nested printers
    groups.
  
  - New command line tools :
  
    - pkprinters : use this to add/delete/manage printers or printers 
      groups. It is much more faster than edpykota to manage printers.
      
    - pkhint : preliminary work on installation automation. It is a   
      configuration helper (CUPS only for now)
  
  - Several speed and CPU load improvements by suppression of 
    unneeded database queries wherever possible
  
  - Improved documentation
  
  - Italian translation added
  
  - Preliminary work on relationnal database independance
  
  - Sample reports made with OpenOffice are included
  
  - Better Debian integration, and preliminary work on Debian
    packaging
  
  - New directives in pykota.conf :
  
    - maildomain : sets the mail domain to use when email address for
      user is not set and username at smtpserver is not allowed.
      
    - prehook : allows to launch any command at the beginning of the job.
    
    - posthook : same, but at the end of the job.
    
  - PyKota now exports much of its internal state through environment
    variables accessible from any external command (mailers, accounters,
    requesters, pre and post hooks, ...)
  
The complete list of changes is available from :

  http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/PyKota/action_News
  
IMPORTANT : Before upgrading from an older version, please :

        - Double check the toplevel README and the FAQ.
        
        - Double check the sample configuration files for new
          options and features.
          
Learn more about PyKota, see live reports or screenshots, download the CVS
version or buy yearly Official Packages subscription from :

  http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/PyKota/action_Presentation

Thank you for reading.

Jerome Alet

-- 
"A non-free program is a predatory social system that keeps people 
in a state of domination and division, and uses the spoils to 
dominate more." - RMS


From john.burton at jbmail.com  Sun Mar 21 07:58:09 2004
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:58:09 +0000
Subject: Socket access to low numbered ports?
In-Reply-To: <c3i635$lg5$1@plaza.suomi.net>
References: <405c22fd$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<105os7t5ve30i73@corp.supernews.com>
	<405c772e$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<c3i635$lg5$1@plaza.suomi.net>
Message-ID: <405d9161$0$63621$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>

Tuure Laurinolli wrote:

 > John Burton wrote:
 >
 >> Dan Boitnott wrote:
 >>  > John Burton wrote:
 >>  > Well it does - thanks for that - except that setting the set uid
 >> bit on
 >> the script doesn't seem to actually work. This is on gentoo linux.
 >
 >
 > Indeed it doesn't. You have to use a wrapper of some sort. Google should
 > help you on finding one.

Ok, I'm now using sudo to launch the application which just opens the
listening sockets and then calls os.setuid to set the uid back to an
unprivilaged account.

It seems to work fine.

Thanks for the help.


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Fri Mar 12 14:29:25 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:29:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
Message-ID: <slrnc543pq.lvf.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:39:31 -0500, Will Berry <wberry at wberry.org.x> wrote:
> Style guidelines and coding standards are the devil!  I would enjoy 
> nothing more than reading an ACM paper entitled "Coding Standards 
> Considered Harmful".  I've never seen a single real-life case where the 

Not an ACM paper, but ...

  http://www.algonet.se/~jgrahn/anticodingrules.pdf

Disclaimer: it's an unfinished draft, and it was written in anger
during a period when I was ruled by a really stupid standard.

> argument for coding standards for that reason.  Or, for large projects 
> and open source projects, have an auto-styler run on all checked-in 
> code.  That would at least do away with the spaces-or-tabs problem.

Argh! An auto-styler is the only thing I would hate more than a coding
standard... Coding style is style. People have style, programs do not.

/Jorgen

PS. I just read that PEP for the first time, and it's one of the most
reasonable style guides I've seen (meaning I already did most of that ;-).

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@      ''If All Men Were Brothers,
\X/                algonet.se>    Would You Let One Marry Your Sister?''


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sun Mar 28 21:17:07 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:17:07 -0800
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
In-Reply-To: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c48153$909$1@news.service.uci.edu>

BALAJI RAMAN wrote:
> Hello everybody!!!
> 
> I'm pretty much new to this OOP...
> 
> I have a problem..
> 
> Here is a part of code that I'm writing
> 
> class V(E):
>     """ This is a variable for MPY"""
>     def __init__(self):
>         print id(self)
>         check=[]
>         check.append(id(self))
>         self.val = None
> 
> what I do is call say v1=V() so it means that v1 belongs to the 
> variable class..
> 
> Again if I call v2=V() so now v2 also belong to this class.. I want 
> to keep a track of all the instances of this class.. and store their 
> ids in an array..
> 
> any help in this regards is appreciated...

The poor way of doing it is...

class V(E):
     check = []
     def __init__(self):
         print id(self)
         self.check.append(id(self))
         self.val = None

The reason it is poor is because if an object is deleted, its id could 
be reused.

Instead, you should use weak references.  I've found the following to be 
useful on occasion...

import weakref

class V(E):
     check = {}
     def __init__(self):
         #create a weak reference to yourself
         #place it in the __olist
         self.check[id(self)] = weakref.ref(self)
     def __del__(self):
         del self.check[id(self)]
     def __repr__(self):
         return str(id(self))
     def get_olist(self):
         #this creates a hard reference to every object
         return [o() for o in self.check.values() if o() is not None]

  - Josiah


From godoy at ieee.org  Wed Mar 24 07:13:13 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:13:13 -0300
Subject: Suitability of python to specific project
References: <mailman.294.1080062710.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gma8j1-s93.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Ter 23 Mar 2004 14:22, hyperbob at walla.co.il wrote:

> Regarding the small bugs such as the ones that I found in urllib (that the
> proxies were ill retrieved and the whole operation failed on a seemengly
> non-related problem at a specific computer): what worries me more than the
> existence of small bugs, is their tendecy to appear on one computer and
> not on another, as in my example. How common is that in the python library
> in comparison to coherent bugs? Also, how fast are such small bugs usually
> fixed in the official release (both in case that I fix them myself and in
> case that I only complain)?

I'm not sure those are Python failures or bugs.

We have a client here that has a network of Win98 machines (more or less 20
machines), all with the latest updates, installed from their respective
installation CDs. And some machines can't use passive FTP while other can.
We even tried installing one of those machines that can't use FTP with a CD
of one that can and... it didn't worked. 

Funny, isn't it? So if I was writing something that relied on Internet FTP
access, and if my program used standard Win98 resources, my application
would fail. Would it be my fault? How could I solve it without too much
work? 

So, repeating my initial phrase, I don't know whose fault it is. 

-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 14 14:03:08 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:03:08 -0000
Subject: How to read between xml tags?
References: <mailman.251.1078956407.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1059b3cg50f0b4f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.251.1078956407.19534.python-list at python.org>,
Anthony Liu  <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Yes, Miki, your code works great to strip the XML tags
>and return a clean text file.
>
>But the thing is, I want to process the part between
>tags each time it is read in.
>
>For example if I have a tagged XML doc like so:
>
><tag1>Something here</tag1>
><tag2>something else here</tag2>
>
>I want to get "Something here" in one read operation
>and process it before I move on to get "Something else
>here".
>
>So any way to go about this?
		.
		.
		.
>> I think the xml.sax module is what you're looking
>> for.
>> A small, briefly tested something might be:
>> ---
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>> 
>> from xml.sax.handler import ContentHandler
>> from xml.sax import parse
>> 
>> class ArticleHandler(ContentHandler):
		.
		.
		.
If I understand you, that's *exactly* what Miki has provided
you.  His code reads up until the first tag is closed, then
hands over control to the "callback" he's provided as an 
example.  If you want something different to happen, just
substitute in your own action.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar 23 01:43:26 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:43:26 +0200
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<jKKdnVcj5pGpEcLdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <du7isgw83n5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

    Peter> (Hmm... maybe a BOF for "serious s/w engineering with
    Peter> Python" or something like that?)

We're living in interesting times, what with all the noise created by
Havoc Pennington in

http://ometer.com/desktop-language.html

I think Python might have a great shot as a more "official" strategic
direction for Linux desktop app development, since it's quite possible
their neither Mono or Java gets picked because they are encumbered.

Some lobbying is needed, of course. Getting something like IBM or
Novell (well, Novell is probably stuck w/ Mono... IronPython, anyone?)
officially endorsing and sponsoring Python would be oh-so-cool.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Tue Mar 30 00:57:52 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:57:52 +1000
Subject: easy verbose in functions
References: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40690C60.20509@yahoo.com.au>

Hello Pascal,

Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've a function like this:
> def myfunction(data, verbose = False):
>    dothis...
>    if verbose: print 'I do this'
>    dothisother
>    if verbose: print 'I do this other'
>    ...
> 
> How can I do to exclude eachtime the `if verbose` statement?
> 
> I tried `print verbose and 'I do this'` but it's printing `False`.
> So I tried with `verbose = None` in the definition, but it's printing None!

I'm not sure exactly what you are doing because I can't 
duplicate your results.

But I am guessing that what you are doing is passing a 
string "False" instead of the boolean constant False. 
The constant False is only defined in Python 2.2 and 
higher.

You can put something like this at the beginning of 
your program to make sure that False and True are 
defined no matter what version of Python you are using:

try:
     if False:
         pass
except:
     False = 0
     True = not False


Notice the difference between a string and a boolean value:

 >>> print False; print "False"
0
False
 >>> type(False); type("False")
<type 'int'>
<type 'str'>

Likewise None is not the same as "None".


The way I would handle verbose printing in functions is 
to factor out the "verbosity" from the function logic:

def verboseprint(s, verbose):
     if verbose: print s

def myfunction(arg, verbose=False):
     dothis
     verboseprint("Do this", verbose)
     dothat
     verboseprint("Do that", verbose)


That way, if there is a bug in your handling of verbose 
printing, you only need to fix it in one place. If you 
decide to change verbose printing to (say) using a log 
file, you only need to change one place.

The statement:

     print verbose and "Do this"


will not work. If verbose is True, then the term 
(verbose and "Do this") will evaluate to "Do this", and 
Python will print what you expect, namely "Do this".

But if verbose is False, then the term (verbose and "Do 
this") will evaluate to False, and Python will then 
print False, which is not what you want.



-- 
Steven D'Aprano




From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Mon Mar 22 18:40:38 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 15:40:38 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403160058.626d0a35@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0403170242.759ac8d9@posting.google.com>
	<e4e0340c.0403210627.2cfe88c8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0403211210.703991c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403221540.1acdc5b1@posting.google.com>

I hope I'm not belaboring the point.  b-)

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote in message news:<5d83790c.0403211210.703991c2 at posting.google.com>...
> When designing a new type, the trick is to avoid areas where two
> different people could reasonably expect different "normal" behaviors.
>  Otherwise, you're doing more harm than good and making it likely that
> your users will stumble into a class of bugs that are extremely
> difficult to hunt down.

This seems like good advice, but the current implementation of lists
in Python doesn't follow it wrt modifying while iterating.  People who
remember all the footnotes to the docs expect one thing, and the rest
of us expect something else.  Maybe it would be better if list
iterators puked in the same fashion that dict iterators do immediately
after the dict instance is modified.  Then users wouldn't start by
appending to lists over which they are iterating (which works,
although I'm not sure it will with the new reversed iterators), and go
on to expect to be able to modify lists in a general fashion.


> The code is an improvement, but still suffers from the definitional
> ambiguity mentioned above.  I believe this is inescapable.  Consider a

Thanks.  I feel that in allowing an operation that was previously
implicitly forbidden, one can be forgiven if there is some subtlety to
the semantics of the operation.  But that's debatable.


> All the contortions in the code still suggest to me that the use case
> needs a different algorithm.  Try rewriting it with separate input and
> output lists.  My bet is that the code is clearer and more
> maintainable.

My original use case was 3 classes in 30 lines, not including the
subclassing of list.  I thought the subclassing of list was fairly
componentized, and it would be unnecessary if the list implementation
were modified as I've suggested.  That doesn't look too likely. b-) 
I'll certainly be using collections.deque after I install 2.4!


> > import itertools
> 
> Hey, hey, I love to see people using my module ;-)

I love to use it.  Iterators and list comprehensions were good, but
coupled with itertools they are great.

Thanks, Raymond, for all you've done for Python.

later,
Jess


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Mon Mar 29 05:10:41 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 02:10:41 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0403290210.4b55cfff@posting.google.com>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134>...
> Mark,
> 
> I see most discussion about Prothon is concerning prototypes.
> 
> Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate 
> prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?

Anything's possible, but would you want to? Aside from increasing
language complexity, introducing a second OO programming model would
violate Python's core "one way to do it" philosophy.

Adding features is easy. It's leaving them out that's hard. ;)


From droog at orange.gov  Wed Mar 17 21:53:48 2004
From: droog at orange.gov (droog)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:53:48 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
Message-ID: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>


Hello!

I have just started learning python and encountered a problem.
All I wanted to do, was to open a text file search and count the
number of occurances of a single word and print that count.
Thanks for help.



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:50:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:50:34 -0500
Subject: wxPython "Frames within Frames"
In-Reply-To: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>
References: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YsqdnZQFKckH9crdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

Simon Erikson wrote:

> I would like to build an app consisting of a "root" frame that can
> contain an arbitrary number of child frames (the user will click to
> create them).  Each of these child frames needs the full functionality
> of a frame (title,menu,status bars, min,max,close icons, scroll bars,
> sizing, moving).  In addition, the user must be able to create
> grandchild frames within these child frames, to an arbitrary depth (in
> practice limited to 10 or so).
> 
> As I understand it, MDI provides the means of creating the root and
> first generation frames, but not the further generations.

I'm afraid I can't help with the task as described, but I wanted to draw 
your attention to the fact that many people consider MDI to be 'evil', 
and it occurs to me that a massively nested MDI could only magnify the 
problems many times over.

In case you're interested, I found a couple of links to start you off:

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=2748
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2002-August/msg00228.html

(This is probably a somewhat religious matter, and in any case perhaps 
you have very good reasons for wanting MDI, but just in case you aren't 
set on doing it, other options might also be much simpler to code.)

-Peter


From zapazap at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 23:07:43 2004
From: zapazap at yahoo.com (zapazap)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 20:07:43 -0800
Subject: Pythonic control of VMware -- ctypes does not provide access to
	'menu' gui-control.
References: <4b3b1124.0403010024.7d044ac1@posting.google.com>
	<10470sbrjkdh1b2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4b3b1124.0403012007.6dc1b20b@posting.google.com>

Thanks Mike.  

"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote in message news:<10470sbrjkdh1b2 at corp.supernews.com>...

> If you are trying to close an application, I wouldn't access its menu at
> all. The normal way to close a Windows app is to send or post a WM_CLOSE
> message to its main window.

Noted, and my intent is to bypass the menu as much as possible when 
driving the app.  But without documentation of the app's API, I have
no obvious (to me) recourse but using the menu.  In the unittest, I
closed the app with the menu in order to exercise the menu.  The app
closing is just a convenient side effect :-)

> If you need to find out more about how an application is structured,
> Winspector Spy may be useful: http://www.windows-spy.com/

And this may be just the thing I am looking for, maybe even to
bypass the menu altogether.  You are keeping my hope alive, thanks!

> Won't the user still be able to press Ctrl+Alt (or whatever you set the
> hotkey to) to break out of full screen mode and get back to the host system?

Probably.  My concern is less over determined crakers than over teachers
freaking out when the VM leaves full screen mode -every time- the host 
does something to it.  (I have hopes of deploying this in a school setting,
with teachers modifying and snapshoting the students' VM, without the
teacher having to know that it is a VM at all.)  Disabling the Ctrl+Alt
would indeed be nice, but bulletproofing is not a priority at this stage.

Indeed, at this stage, I want this to be automated for my own purposes,
because I am both lazy and careless in routine tasks on my own machine!
Here I do not mind the VM leaving full screen mode.  I am disciplined
enough to "sit on my hands" while it does it's thing.  Students may not
though!

> Don't use os.system to run a program in Windows....
> You can use os.startfile to run a program using the ShellExecute function...
> Or use win32api.ShellExecute...

Noted.

> If you were coding in C, I would recommend using ShellExecuteEx instead of
> ShellExecute. ShellExecuteEx gives you the process and thread handles to the
> application, so you can use the WaitForInputIdle() function instead of an
> unreliable time delay.
> 
> I don't see a wrapper for ShellExecuteEx in win32api, but you could probably
> do it with ctypes.

That is new to me, and does sound interesting.

> The difference between PostMessage and SendMessage is that SendMessage waits
> until the target window function returns, so you wouldn't need the delay.

Ditto.

> 
> > def get_hwnds(text):
> >     """
> >     Return list of all top level hwnds with specified
> >     text in the title.
> >     """
> >     fn = win32gui.GetWindowText
> >     list = []
> >     win32gui.EnumWindows( (lambda hwnd,acc: acc.append(hwnd)), list)
> >     return [ hwnd for hwnd in list if text in fn(hwnd) ]
> 
> This doesn't seem like a good idea. Some unrelated window could have the
> same text in its title.
> 
> Instead of GetWindowText, I'd use win32gui.GetClassName and look for the
> window class name you want. You can use Winspector Spy to find the class
> name for any window.
> ...
> 
> There's no guarantee that class names will be unique either, but it's a lot
> better than using window titles. You could check both.
> 
> A general comment about closing applications: As you know, many apps will
> put up a confirmation dialog box when you close them. In your Notepad test,
> what if the user had edited the text? Notepad would put up a "do you want to
> save" dialog and your code would take the assert. VMware always puts up a
> confirmation message box if the VM is running. SendMessage(WM_CLOSE) would
> avoid this problem by waiting for the WM_CLOSE message to return.

Yup, I agree - for my project, but not this particular unittest.  Which
is also why I do not bother to deal with closing dialog boxes.  My test
should never cause a dialog to appear, and I wanted to trim it to the
bare minimum that shows the problem. (Perhaps I need not have had the
test exercise both Notepad and Freecell?  One working example may have
been enough?)

I will check windows-spy and hope that I do not face too steep a learning
curve regarding windows innards (which the menu route would have avoided!)

Thank you Mike.  Your comments are appreciated, and 
> -Mike


From dj00302003 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 16:52:06 2004
From: dj00302003 at yahoo.com (Jay Davis)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 13:52:06 -0800
Subject: How to flush print
Message-ID: <1d17eeb7.0403061352.15aa1acc@posting.google.com>

If you open a file the usual way, you can flush
the output buffer with .flush().  How do you flush
the output buffer of a print command, either
'print string' or 'print >>ofile, string' ?


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 06:26:21 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:26:21 GMT
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<c20abc$dbm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xllmkrzry.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m3oerf5w2r.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Nothing stops Python from optimizing the loop.  It just doesn't do so.
> Again, it's an implementation vs implementation comparison, with
> Fortran winning.

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but my curiosity is almost
(but not quite) piqued enough by this statement to go back and find
out why it's being said :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  TRSDOS: Friendly old lizard. Or, at least, content to sit there
  eating flies.            -- Jim's pedigree of operating systems, asr


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Wed Mar 31 14:27:25 2004
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:27:25 GMT
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.186.1080754249.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <m2u106axra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<mailman.186.1080754249.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xYEac.56770$4d.3685472@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     John> Is there a better way to test for NaN than
> 
>     John>    str(p1)=='nan'
> 
>     John> where p1 is a float?
> 
> Saw this in the list archives earlier today:
> 
>     >>> inf = float("1e9999")
>     >>> inf
>     Inf
>     >>> nan = inf-inf
>     >>> nan
>     NaN
>     >>> p1 = 5.0
>     >>> p1 == nan
>     False

 >>> a = inf-inf
 >>> a == nan
False

Seems to return False always, that doesn't really help...

-- 
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven


From sc0rp at hot.pl  Thu Mar 25 02:15:55 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:15:55 +0100
Subject: Mod_python
References: <qDp8c.41418$Bg.9880@fed1read03> <m3v8c.42177$Bg.17925@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <4062872B.90FC5F33@hot.pl>


Amy G wrote:
> So I can now restart apache and everything seems to work.  Except my python
> files still show up as text in the browser window.
>
> I am using Apache 1.3.7.
> I downloaded both mod_pyton-2.7.10 and 2.7.9.

Below is configuraton that does work with Apache 2.0.49 and mod_python
3.0.3.  Maybe it will work with older version as well.

Make sure that similar entires are in http.conf (paths on your system
may be different):
-----
LoadModule python_module  libexec/apache2/mod_python.so

DocumentRoot "/usr/local/www/data"

<Directory "/usr/local/www/data">
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all 
    SetHandler python-program
    PythonHandler Handlers
    PythonDebug On
</Directory> 
-----

Place your script as:
/usr/local/www/data/Handlers.py

Something like this should work:



Make should that your Python version is old enough to be suppor

Best regards,
Jacek.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 31 15:30:56 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 15:30:56 -0500
Subject: wxPython book (was Re: Python Documentation Blows!)
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<9TCac.683$JX6.99@fe07.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c4f9q0$lkp$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <9TCac.683$JX6.99 at fe07.usenetserver.com>,
Robin Dunn  <robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64 at nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>,
>> francois lepoutre <franck.lepoutre at caramail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Possibly a smart (and not necessarily big) wxpython book could prove a
>>>decisive argument for wxpython and python as well specifically for the
>>>"MS visual *" and delphi user communities.
>> 
>> There's one in the pipeline.  Don't know how much more than that I
>> should say; 
>
>We've just had our 1/3 review, with lots of positive and constructive 
>feedback from the reviewers.  There's still lots to do but it is moving 
>ahead at a steady pace.

Cool!  Still using reST to write it?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From katximan at gmx.net  Wed Mar 24 17:10:00 2004
From: katximan at gmx.net (Asier)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 14:10:00 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
	<fP-dnYE7-_Jf-crdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c37svj$jlu$1@news.service.uci.edu> <uoeqojxg8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<c3qdlm$b8n$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4e1cc86c.0403241410.28d969b3@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c3qdlm$b8n$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...

> Well, if you checked date stamps, Asier's message about "startup times" 
> being critical was roughly 20 hours after my my message.
> 
> Asier originally said, "wxpython is horribly slow" with no pointer as to 
> the startup time being slow.  Both Peter and I believed he meant 'slow 
> while running', which neither of us have experienced, which is why we 
> commented.

Please, excuse me if the reasons showed in my first message were not
very technical but I'm a bit tired of the "eternal war" of GUIs in
Python. I'm programming with Python for one year and I haven't found a
portable, free and 'batteries full' GUI toolkit -perhaps now pygtk-.
Please, don't think I'm a troll or something like.

I like a lot the message system used in FOX and the quality/quantity
of its widgets, but the lack of maintenance of fxpy makes me cry. I'm
thinking about learning SWIG to maintain the package because often
this toolkit is forgetted.

I see wxpython more like a framework than a GUI toolkit. If I'd want a
GUI I would use GTK which also is multiplatform and also has lots of
widgets. But this is caused by my customer's hardware: it's very old.
--
Asier.


From http  Fri Mar 12 23:39:25 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 20:39:25 -0800
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
	<c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<7x8yi5wfyd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrnc552dr.2dq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <7x3c8d9x8i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> writes:
> No, that makes the increasingly incorrect assumption that the passwords
> are stored and accessed via those files.  Many systems use NIS or LDAP
> or other protocol-based account table management methods, and the
> 'passwd' command is often set up to use that method.  Affecting /etc/*
> files in such a case would have no effect on the root password.

The OP isn't asking about how to do it on "many systems", he's asking
how to do it on a specific system (Mac OS X).  If he can find a way that
works on that system, he doesn't have to worry about other systems.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar  5 04:20:14 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Mar 2004 10:20:14 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfwu5z7ir5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa) writes:

> These posts are like big huge neon signs that say, "I'm IGNORANT."

He then goes on to say.

> LISP is a parsing language.

Thereby creating a self referential articrle.


From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Wed Mar 31 02:50:29 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:50:29 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

>  ... wxPython still is horribly documented. Documentation of
> the C version of something is really not very friendly especially to new
> Python programmers. I for one would be glad to buy a book about wxPython
> if someone a lot more experienced than myself cared to write such a
> book. I do know C but I still find working from the wxWindows docs
> frustrating with a lot of trial and error required.

As was mentioned in a recent thread python is definitively
the tool for applications with complex code and no or little UI.
For UI-intense apps, win32 C# and delphi are still hard to beat

Possibly a smart (and not necessarily big) wxpython book
could prove a decisive argument for wxpython and python
as well specifically for the "MS visual *" and delphi user
communities.

Is it time for the python community to commit a bit
more to the wxwidgets/wxpython environment?
I feel so

Fran?ois





From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 29 21:32:31 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:32:31 +1200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4am81$2ha0mj$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
>>But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
>>on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
> 
> I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you mean the
> garbage colector?

A running Python program creates and discards certain kinds
of objects (e.g. integers, tuples, stack frames) at a very
high rate. Due to reference counting, the fact that these
objects have been discarded is discovered very quickly, and
their memory released. Subsequent allocations are likely to
re-use the same memory, which is likely to be in cache.

A pure mark-and-sweep system, on the other hand, tends to
keep on allocating fresh memory and letting the garbage
objects pile up until there is no more fresh memory, only
then pausing to reclaim the garbage. This is a very bad
access pattern for cache purposes.

Back when the addition of a mark-and-sweep collector to
Python was being debated, this argument was put forward as
a reason why replacing reference counting with mark-and-sweep
wouldn't obviously be an improvement, and could make things
worse.

Python currently has both reference counting *and* mark
and sweep, which sounds redundant, but the combination seems
to work very well.

> The interpreter supports C code calling Prothon code and vice versa.

I don't doubt that it's possible, I was just wondering how
easy it is. Stackless-type systems tend to make this rather
more convoluted than just making a C function call. I'll take
a look at the code some time and find out.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From bob at redivi.com  Fri Mar  5 17:42:55 2004
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:42:55 -0500
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>

On 2004-03-05 16:28:55 -0500, Mathias Waack <M.Waack at gmx.de> said:

> Bart Nessux wrote:
> 
>> Is there a shred module in Python? You know, the kind that
>> overwrites files that one doesn't want others to see? I can call
>> the unix program like this:
>> 
>> x = os.popen("/usr/bin/shred -uvz NAME_OF_FILE")
>> x.read()
>> x.close()
>> 
>> But, I'd like a platform independant (portable) way of doing this
>> if possible.
> 
> First: It is not possible. Let me cite some sentences from shred(1):
> 
>        CAUTION: Note  that  shred  relies  on  a  very  important
>        assumption:  that the filesystem overwrites data in place.
>        This is the traditional way to do things, but many  modern
>        filesystem  designs  do  not satisfy this assumption.

Somewhat OT, Mac OS X 10.3 is one of the operating systems where this 
assumption is false.  Files smaller than a certain size get 
automatically moved around on the disk when it makes sense to do so in 
order to reduce fragmentation.

-bob



From a_salnikov at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 16:34:58 2004
From: a_salnikov at yahoo.com (Andy Salnikov)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:34:58 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
	<92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>
	<m2y8q4dgpw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<92c59a2c.0403131328.54210c30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c357ia$se9$1@news.Stanford.EDU>


"MetalOne" <jcb at iteris.com> wrote in message
news:92c59a2c.0403131328.54210c30 at posting.google.com...
> Good points.
> With resource acquistion, I was mainly thinking along the lines of
>
> int file_compare(const char *filename1, const char *filename2)
> {
>     FILE *infile1 = fopen(filename1, "r");
>     FILE *infile2 = fopen(filename2, "r");
>     if (!infile1 || !infile2)
>     {
>         // error
>         if (infile2)
>             fclose(infile2);
>         if (infile1)
>             fclose(infile1);
>         return FAILURE;
>     }
>
>     // compare files
>     return SUCCESS
> }
>
> as opposed to
>
> int file_compare(const char *filename1, const char *filename2)
> {
>     int result = SUCCESS;
>     FILE *infile1 = fopen(filename1, "r");
>     if (infile1)
>     {
>         FILE *infile2 = fopen(filename2, "r");
>         if (infile2)
>         {
>             // compare files
>         }
>         else
>         {
>             result = FAILURE;
>         }
>     }
>     else
>     {
>         result = FAILURE;
>     }
>     if (infile2)
>         fclose(infile2);
>     if (infile1)
>         fclose(infile1);
>     return result;
> }


  Latter version has an error - scope of infile2 is the first if _only_.
Write it like
this (and this is my preferred style too :)

int file_compare(const char *filename1, const char *filename2)
{
    int result = FAILURE;
    FILE *infile1 = fopen(filename1, "r");
    if (infile1) {
        FILE *infile2 = fopen(filename2, "r");
        if (infile2) {
            // compare files
            result = SUCCESS ; // maybe
            fclose(infile2);
        }
        fclose(infile1);
    }
    return result;
}

// Andy.



From ark at acm.org  Sat Mar  6 13:29:33 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:29:33 GMT
Subject: Question please
References: <mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hMo2c.80225$aH3.2451359@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

> I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2
> with win32 extensions software.

> I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if
> I can just remove this software without affecting anything
> in my system as it is taking up space if I'm not going to use it?

The question is whether anything else on your machine depends on it.
As we don't know what else is on your machine, we can't answer that
question.

Out of curiosity, what fraction of the total space on your machine does
Python occupy?
On mine, it's about 1/20 of a percent.




From theller at python.net  Mon Mar 22 15:38:19 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:38:19 +0100
Subject: py2exe icon resource on win98
References: <c3n561$m21$1@sea.gmane.org> <ekrkddav.fsf@python.net>
	<c3n7l9$tno$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1xnkfwhw.fsf@python.net>

Haim Ashkenazi <haim at babysnakes.org> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>
>> Haim Ashkenazi <haim at babysnakes.org> writes:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I'm trying to build a binary with py2exe. I've used the method suggested
>>> in the py2exe wiki about adding icon resources to apps. it build ok on
>>> win2k, but when I try to build the same on win98 I get this error:
>>>
[...]
>>>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\build_exe.py", line 577, in
>>> build_executable
>>>     add_icon(unicode(exe_path), unicode(ico_filename), ico_id)
>>> RuntimeError: MapExistingFile: The handle is invalid
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> I've attached my "setup.py".
>>>
>>> anyone has any ideas?
>> 
>> I assume you have unicows.dll installed (this is required on win98), as
>> described in the py2exe webpage.
> of course :)

Well, its better to ask - some people don't read instructions ;-)

>> The build process on win98 is not tested very good, maybe I overlooked
>> something.  Can you build your exe when you comment out all the icon
>> resources?
> yes. without a problem. it's win98 first edition without any updates
> (internet explorer 4). 

It's a bug.  I hope I can fix it before the next release.

Thomas




From dietrich at zdome.net  Tue Mar 16 19:21:58 2004
From: dietrich at zdome.net (Dietrich Epp)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:21:58 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
Message-ID: <1A509EE5-77A9-11D8-8AC1-0003934ACDEC@zdome.net>

Without invoking double-underscore black magic, it is possible to 
choose a, b, and c in Python such that:

a < b
b < c
c < a

This could cause sorting functions to malfunction.

 >>> class t(object):
...     pass
...
 >>> a = t()
 >>> b = u'0'
 >>> c = '1'
 >>> a < b
True
 >>> b < c
True
 >>> c < a
True

Possible kludge fix: Change default_3way_compare() to use "basestring" 
as the typename for both built-in string types.

Possible elegant fix: Any class whose members may either be less than 
or greater than members of a different class, which often share a 
common superclass, use the name of the superclass for comparisons with 
objects of incompatible types.  This parallels the comparison of 
numeric types because they compare as if their type name were empty.




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 14:57:22 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:57:22 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>
	<roy-F3D505.13543307032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <71tm409egnua4ncic1siadnk7fi9rqnp8e@4ax.com>

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:54:33 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> a goto is the natural representation of a transition between states.
>
>Except that a goto allows the code for a state to be fallen into from 
>the top.

How is this different to the more typical switch-within-loop method?
Or have you never forgotten to include a 'break'? ;-)

>The best way I know to implement a state machine in Python is one 
>function for each state, and have each function return the next state, 
>or perhaps an (output, nextState) tuple.  Your main loop then becomes 
>something like:
>
>   state = start
>   while state != end:
>      nextState, output = state (input)
>      print output
>      state = nextState

I've done similar in C++. In some extreme cases, I have used a class
heirarchy with a class for each state, using a virtual method to get
essentially the same effect. Having different members depending on the
state can be useful at times, though of course there is a price to
pay.

The same can of course be done in Python, and probably without all the
classes because of the dynamic nature of Python objects.

The point with my 'short running' example, though, is that it didn't
have input as such to worry about. Everything it needed to work on was
available at the time it was invoked. If it had needed to wait for
input sometimes I'd have needed a way to resume from a given state
anyway, implying the switch-for-the-state method or whatever.

Using functions or objects for the states would have meant making a
bunch of local variables accessible by those functions/objects, and
would have meant taking the states code out of context. Often this
would be a good thing, but not in this case - keeping the code in
context makes it much clearer.

The other consideration was that this was an inner loop in a function
that needed to run quickly. Adding function call overheads (especially
with lots of parameters) wasn't an option.

>I've implemented state machines in Perl with a huge multi-way 
>if/elif/elif/else statement.  It's pretty ugly, but it beats gotos.

If you say so. But in reality, but returning a function pointer to a
function that is immediately going to call that function pointer,
you're basically just faking the effect of a goto anyway.

Implementing a state machine using gotos (in those extremely rare
cases where it is an option) does not damage readability or
maintainability. Implementing a transition as 'return statefn;' or as
'statevar = stateid;' is really no different than implementing it as
'goto statelabel;'. All are a potential cause of spaghetti code if
abused, because all are just means of branching to a different piece
of code - its just that the goto does exactly what it says, while the
other methods achieve it indirectly. In fact its basically a special
case of the state variable method, using the processors IP as the
state variable.

That said, I did try to avoid using gotos anyway - using a goto is
basically begging to be harassed. I didn't use the loop-and-switch
method, but instead tried to pretent it wasn't really a state machine
by using a birdsnest of loops and conditionals. Never let anyone tell
you that structured code is inherently clean and simple - there's
always a special case where it all goes horribly wrong.

After three fatally buggy attempts using structured code, which I
realised I couldn't understand and thus couldn't debug, I gave up and
used gotos. The result worked first time, and other people have also
been able to understand it easily.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Sat Mar 13 19:30:04 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:30:04 +1300
Subject: Python & the job market
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EE3@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EE3@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <4053A78C.1060303@rebirthing.co.nz>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> kbass wrote:
> 
>>I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job 
>>market looks for programming using Python. I really don't see
>>many jobs (probably one or two) that require Python experience
>>at all.

The same thing was once said about C, Perl, even COBOL. The suits have 
always gone through a period of resistance before finally seeing the 
benefits of each new technology.

One option would be to sell oneself into a job on the back of another 
language like Java or Perl, then at first opportunity write something in 
Python and demonstrate how much quicker and easier it is to write stuff.
You could even use some dirty tricks like writing stuff in Jython.

>>Most DBA and SA positions that I have seen require
>>Perl and most development position require Java or C++ so
>>how can learning Python benefit my career if there are little 
>>to no chance that an employer will require the use of Python
>>or consider using Python over other programming languages
>>such as Java?

I'm glad not everyone lets themselves get intimidated by thinking like that.

Take a walk around the Google labs - now that place is Python City.

> Java was designed to benefit your career. Python was designed to benefit
> your life. Pick one.

Why not both? Get your butt into a Java site, deliver some stuff on 
time, get some credibility, then start selling them on Python.

David

> 
> 
> FuManChu
> 

-- 

Kind regards
David

--

leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter



From u at g0ertz.de  Sat Mar 20 04:05:57 2004
From: u at g0ertz.de (Ulrich Goertz)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 10:05:57 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 and data_files
References: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net> <c3g0r4$hga$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <87d67799ca.fsf@u-go.net>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

> Try the following [...]

Thanks for your suggestion. I see that I can get around this 
problem by analyzing sys.path[0] and proceeding case by case.
However, my understanding is that it should not be necessary
for the application to "know" that it will be packaged by
py2exe later. In other words, why does py2exe "change"
sys.path[0]? Or, if this change is justified (and it may well
be), maybe my application shpuld not use sys.path[0] but a
different way to find out the path where it resides?

In addition, since this change in the behavior of py2exe forces
me to change the Python application which I want to package
itself, I am asking myself whether there are other changes that
have to be made but which are not as obvious as this one.

(All this is not meant as criticism towards py2exe; it is a
great program. But I would like to improve my understanding
of its behavior, and of what is the right thing to do in my
application.)

Ulrich


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 06:46:29 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:46:29 GMT
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
References: <mailman.5.1078175464.21900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3k7235v57.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Bill Janssen <janssen at parc.com> writes:

> I've encountered an issue dealing with strings read from files.  I
> read a line from a file, then try to print it out as an ASCII string:
> 
>   line = fp.readline()
>   print line.encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')
> 
> and of course I get an error like:
> 
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xd5 in position 1: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> because the file contained some binary character.  You'll notice that
> the problem is in *decoding* the string, not in re-encoding it,
> because I'm using the default "C" locale, and "US-ASCII" is presumed
> for strings.

Actually, the "C" locale has precisely nothing to do with it.

> But these strings are *not* US-ASCII, they are raw bytes.  How do I
> format a string of raw bytes for conversion to a recognized charset
> encoding for printing?

You don't?

Wouldn't 

def m(c):
    if c in string.printable:
        return c
    else:
        return '?'

t = ''.join([m(chr(o)) for o in range(m)])

line.translate(t)

make more sense?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I like silliness in a MP skit, but not in my APIs. :-)
                                       -- Guido van Rossum, python-dev


From Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp  Wed Mar  3 10:07:51 2004
From: Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp (Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:07:51 +0900
Subject: Fml status report (Kuser ML)
References: <20040303150731.E68B01F83DE@mail.kde.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <200403040007.FMLAAB25714.Kuser@kde.gr.jp>

ATTENTION! Your mail is too big, so not processed!!!
This ML <Kuser at kde.gr.jp> restricts the maximum mail size,
so pay attention to the mail with e.g. attachments.

--Kuser at kde.gr.jp, Be Seeing You!    

************************************************************

       Help: <mailto:Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp?body=help>
Unsubscribe: <mailto:Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp?body=unsubscribe>

If you have any questions or problems,
   please contact Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp
       or 
   send e-mail with the body "help"(without quotes) to
      Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp
      (here is the automatic reply, so more preferable)

e.g. on a Unix Machine
(shell prompt)% echo "help" |Mail Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp

************************************************************




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 12:43:15 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:43:15 -0800
Subject: Graphing problems
In-Reply-To: <75200cbc.0403190817.10ed1ef3@posting.google.com>
References: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>
	<c3dpmp$7r5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<75200cbc.0403190817.10ed1ef3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3fbla$pu0$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>Thank Guido, http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html
> 
> I figured it out...I needed to use sys.setrecursionlimit. D'oh. :)

You may eventually run into a case where setting the recursion limit 
still doesn't help you (you start getting C stack overflows).  At this 
point, a non-recursive version of the shortest paths algorithm would 
probably help you.

  - Josiah


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 18 12:48:02 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:48:02 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
References: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
Message-ID: <c3cncg$gar$04$1@news.t-online.com>

thehaas at binary.net wrote:
> Obviously, 'Gr??'!='Gr\xfc\xdf' .  

It is not at all obvious that they are different. In fact, they
are the same, assuming the second string is encoding in Latin-1.

> Any ideas on how I can get the correct value?

Pray tell: what is the correct value?

Regards,
Martin



From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Mar  5 14:08:18 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:08:18 -0800
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ia42c.538$No1.34069@news.uswest.net>

Well I have to make the obligatory PythonCard plug...

<plug>
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
</plug>

PythonCard uses wxPython and you can mix "raw" wxPython code into your app
if needed. Since it is based on wxPython, your apps will work on Windows,
Linux/GTK, and Mac OS X.

ka

"Jonathon McKitrick" <jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am totally hooked on what I have learned about python.  I am going to
use
> it to develop a simple data entry app I need for some financial record
> keeping.
>
> I understand tkinter is official and simple to use, but many who use
> wxPython swear by it, and it is gaining ground.
>
> I would like to run on any platform, but that's not critical.  What I want
> to do is support an app that will grow over time, and should look clean.
I
> don't want to spend lots of time maintaining GUI code rather than app
logic.
>
> Can anyone offer any advice?
>
> jm
> -- 
> My other computer is your Windows box.
>
>




From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Thu Mar  4 12:44:16 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:44:16 +0000
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20040304174416.GA83243@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>

On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 09:53:24PM +1300, David McNab wrote:
: My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the 
: name of PMW.

I think I am leaning this way as well.  But why can't I find any screenshots
of PMW?

: leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter


jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 06:18:25 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:18:25 +0200
Subject: Especialized generator
In-Reply-To: <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6@4ax.com>
References: <hltd409mao1mmlk6kn5rjk00i5342p8pk6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40471081.9030403@zoran.com>

Hell Boogie,

> I want to write a generator that specializes on os.walk. It should yield only
> certain kinds of files.
> 
> What's the best way of doing this? How do you save the state on the base
> generator?
Using os.walk :-)

HTH.
Miki


From chrish at cryptocard.com  Thu Mar 11 13:28:58 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:28:58 -0500
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
In-Reply-To: <40509bdf$0$28718$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40509bdf$0$28718$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3824c.45105$6y1.1372868@news20.bellglobal.com>

Peter Hickman wrote:

[...]
> You might find Python easier than Perl but you are not a particulary 
> good Perl programmer.

So, only good Perl programmers find Perl easier than Python? ;-)
*hides*

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Mon Mar 15 08:12:07 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:12:07 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <67efcd4ccaf87ddf3c640aad5517017a@news.teranews.com>
	<mailman.359.1079189987.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7de2e74a623ae9f3ff3fe9ae4e1ec2b4@news.teranews.com>
	<tyfptbe4hz1.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <a34cb5bb2e354a919d5ee1858cf8c4a0@news.teranews.com>

On 15 Mar 2004 09:44:50 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>Dang Griffith <google0 at lazytwinacres.net> writes:
>
>> >Not forcing variable initialization does have its problems. Here's
>> >what I mean:
>> >http://www.livejournal.com/users/premshree/10624.html?thread=53376#t53376
>> 
>> Yes, I agree.  That is one reason I like Python.
>> It has forced variable *initialization*.  You cannot use a variable
>> that has not been initialized.
>
>But there is nothing to prevent you from assigning to a previously
>non-existing variable, which is what Premshree is concerned about.
>
>> In fact, the act of initializing a variable is what makes the
>> variable exist.
>
>Exactly, make a typo, and the compiler won't notice.
>
>This can indeed be a minor annoyance in interactive
>exploration. However, the development of a real program, backed by a
>test suite, will catch the problem in no time.

Ironically, the error in the code that Premshree referenced, once
fixed for Python syntax, get in an infinite loop.  So, a test suite
will not catch the problem, because the test will never finish.

But obviously, if one is using test-driven development, it should 
be pretty clear which code has a problem.

    --dang


From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Sat Mar 13 18:13:20 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:13:20 +1300
Subject: ANN: pyshaper - for easy traffic-shaping
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.03.13.16.53.04.668636@elsol.zwan>
References: <mailman.355.1079184225.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.03.13.16.53.04.668636@elsol.zwan>
Message-ID: <40539590.5060807@rebirthing.co.nz>

allena29 at elsol.zwan wrote:
> [allena29 at elsol bin]$ pyshaper.orig
>   File "/usr/bin/pyshaper.orig", line 1253
>     main()
>        ^
> IndentationError: expected an indented block

Fixed - is a bug in the Leo editor.

-- 

Kind regards
David

--

leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter



From matthias at ccs.neu.edu  Wed Mar  3 08:41:19 2004
From: matthias at ccs.neu.edu (Matthias Felleisen)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:41:19 -0500
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu>

nobody wrote:

> EPILOGUE:
> 
> I do not hate Lisp, and I think it was a fine tool decades
> ago, and I am not going to say "Lisp sucks". However, now
> that we have superior languages for coding close to the
> iron, high-performance computing, number crunching,
> algorithms, scripting and gluing components together, Lisp
> should be finally retired.

somebody answers:

Lisp has been declared dead for the past N years. Unlike Algol, Simula 67, PL/I, 
Pascal, ... and many more languages that came and went, it is still alife and 
kicking. It will be alive and fun to program in for many years to come, because 
it still has many advantages over C#, Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, and many other 
languages that *will* come and go before Lisp is truly retired.

Long live Scheme

And now it's time to go back and strengthen Scheme even more.

-- Matthias Felleisen, PLT



From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Mar  4 07:52:27 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:52:27 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:32:35 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>The 'print' statement is just shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write' with
>some convenience features suitable for most users.  If you need
>something else, just define your own shortcut, don't deprecate a
>statement that is exactly what most users want.

'print' is not a shortcut for 'sys.stdout.write'.
'print' is a statement.  'sys.stdout.write' is a function.
You can't define a shortcut for a statement.
    --dang


From mikrosofty at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 07:14:49 2004
From: mikrosofty at hotmail.com (Yuri Schaeffer)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:14:49 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <test@test.tk>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com> <test@test.tk>
Message-ID: <Za_1c.63353$KL3.41870@amsnews05.chello.com>

I goofed!

I'm trying to write a news server and did some test with a random header 
I found in this group. But I forgot to set newsgroups to a test group... 
So the above is not a repost, just my garbage. It also was a crosspost, 
that does make me realy bad doesn't it? ;)
(sorry)

yuri


From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Fri Mar  5 18:38:54 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:38:54 +0100
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
In-Reply-To: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
Message-ID: <c2b32f$gr$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Chad Haynes wrote:

> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/dos.jpg
> http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/py2exe.jpg
> 
> I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

You need the so-called 'XP manifest' - a resource segment in the 
executable file that enables the 'XP skinned look'. Try searching the 
Google.


From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Fri Mar 19 05:17:58 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:17:58 +0100
Subject: [(J)Python] embedding python
Message-ID: <405AC8D6.2080204@zslide.com>

hi all,

here's my problem :

I've embedded a python interpreter in our java application (based on the 
NetBeans palteforrm) using the Jython API :
http://www.jython.org/docs/javadoc/index.html

So, i've used the PythonInterpreter class to instanciate an interpreter 
and to integrate it but the its environnement doesn't seem to be the 
same as the standard jython interpreter (the one that is gived when you 
install jython on your machine and that you can use in a DOS shell for 
example).

So i've encountered some problems using this embed interpreter : i 
test/import/script some stuff in the 'standard' interpreter but it 
doesn't always work using my 'embed' interpreter. For example :

----------------------------------------------------------------
C:\jython-2.1\jython
 >>> import urllib
 >>>print
urllib.urlopen('http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/timer.pl').read()
----------------------------------------------------------------

#it displays :
<TITLE>What time is it?</TITLE>
<H2> US Naval Observatory Master Clock Time</H2> <H3>
<BR>Mar. 19, 08:56:01 UTC
<BR>Mar. 19, 03:56:01 AM EST
<BR>Mar. 19, 02:56:01 AM CST
<BR>Mar. 19, 01:56:01 AM MST
<BR>Mar. 19, 12:56:01 AM PST
<BR>Mar. 18, 11:56:01 PM YST
<BR>Mar. 18, 10:56:01 PM AST
</H3></B><P><A HREF="http://tycho.usno.navy.mil" 
<http://tycho.usno.navy.mil%22>;>Time Service Department, US Nav


Now, doing the same thing in my 'embed' :  interpreter :

----------------------------------------------------------
 >>>import urllib
Traceback (innermost last):
File "<string>", line 1, in ?
File "c:\jython-2.1\Lib\urllib.py", line 44, in ?
File "c:\jython-2.1\Lib\javaos.py", line 32, in ?
File "c:\jython-2.1\Lib\re.py", line 7, in ?
File "c:\jython-2.1\Lib\sre.py", line 17, in ?
File "c:\jython-2.1\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 15, in ?
AttributeError: class 'org.python.modules._sre' has no attribute 'MAGIC'
----------------------------------------------------------

It is strange because if i do import again :

--------------------------------
 >>>import urllib
 >>>
--------------------------------

#it doesn't tell me anything anymore but ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >>>print 
urllib.urlopen('http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/timer.pl').read()
Traceback (innermost last):
File "<string>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: module 'urllib' has no attribute 'urlopen'
#it still doesn't work ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have set 2 environnement values :
DOS> echo %PYTHONPATH%
-->
.;C:\jython-2.1;C:\jython-2.1\Lib;c:\python21;c:\python21\Lib;D:\jython\Lib;d:\jython\Lib\test

(my modules live in 'd:\jython\Lib ')

DOS> echo %PYTHON_HOME%
--> c:\jython-2.1

In my embed interpreter, i couldnt import my own modules from 
'd:\jython\Lib', but i solved the problem using the 
PythonInterpreter.initialize(...) function :

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//in my java app :
import java.io.Writer;
import org.python.util.PythonInterpreter;
import org.openide.nodes.Node;
import java.util.Properties;
/**
* This class is used to interpret command lines in python/jython
* It always goes with a Python console class
*/
public class ZJythonInterpreter {
    /**
     * Default Constructor
     * creates a new interpreter and redirects its standard output and 
error output on the console's output
     * @param out - console's output
     * */
    public ZJythonInterpreter(Writer out)
    {
    Properties props = new Properties();
    props.setProperty("python.home", "c:\\jython-2.1");
    props.setProperty("python.path", 
"c:\\jython-2.1;c:\\jython-2.1\\Lib;c:\\python21;c:\\python21\\Lib;d:\\jython\\Lib;d:\\jython\\Lib\\test");
    PythonInterpreter.initialize(System.getProperties(),props,new 
String[0]);

        this.interpreter = new PythonInterpreter();
        this.interpreter.setOut(out);
        this.interpreter.setErr(out);
    // ....
}
//...
}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For information, i'm using jython 2.1 with python 2.1.3 and jdk1.4.2 on 
window$ 2000


Any idea will be welcomed... i'm so bored with this problem
thx

vince



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  2 09:48:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:48:19 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
References: <mailman.3.1078182801.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c226rk$8u5$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:

[unrelated code snipped]

>> Assuming all immutable classes are "smart enough":

[... to reuse an instance of the exact class passed to their copy
constructor - to use C++ terminology for lack of any better] 

> That's a *very* big assumption - one I would never make.

Do you have a class with immutable instances handy where the following
assertion fails?

assert immutableObj.__class__(immutableObj) is immutableObj

Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 16 21:33:24 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:33:24 -0500
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c38ddh$hbq$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2 at posting.google.com...
> Still trying to understand "=="...

means equal in value as defined be Python and user code

> It appears as if two equal objects
> can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them:
>
>   >>> l=[1]
>   >>> s=l
>   >>> l.append(s)
>   >>> w=[1]
>   >>> r=[1,w]
>   >>> w.append(r)
>   >>> s
>   [1, [...]]
>   >>> w
>   [1, [1, [...]]]
>   >>> s==w
>   True
>
> Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.

This is routine:
>>> print 0, 0.0, 0==0.0
0 0.0 1
>>> 1.0 == .999999999999999999999999999999999999
1

Equal in value != equal in internal structure.

>   >>> s[0]=2
>   >>> w[0]=2
>   >>> s==w
>   False
>
> All of a sudden they have become unequal.

1 == 1.0 but type(1) != type(1.0).  Okay, that's cheating, so

>>> 1|1
1
>>> 1.0|1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for |: 'float' and 'int'

Doing same thing to equals has different results.  Or

>>> a=12345678909876
>>> b=float(a)
>>> a*a, b*b
(152415787745757059730335376L, 1.5241578774575706e+026)

now unequal to human eye, but

>>> a*a == b*b
1

due to conversion of a*a to float(a*a) for comparison.

Terry J. Reedy






From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar  2 19:07:41 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:07:41 -0500
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
In-Reply-To: <20040302233008.GA4960@knorke>
References: <20040302233008.GA4960@knorke>
Message-ID: <404521CD.2040709@rogers.com>

W. Borgert wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm not new to Python, but new to databases and PostgreSQL.
>I like to write a PostgreSQL client application (not code
>running inside of the RDBMS), and Debian has four modules:
>
>python2.3-pgsql - A Python DB-API 2.0 interface to PostgreSQL v7.x
>  
>
Also known as pyPgSQL, my personal choice, mostly because it is BSD 
licensed, compiles easily on Win32 and is fairly DB-API compliant.  
Authors have been fairly responsive to my bug reports over the months.

>python2.3-popy - module providing access to PostgreSQL from Python2.3
>  
>
One of the more popular ones.  Last I heard it was still GPL licensed, 
though apparently there's some plans to make it BSD licensed as it 
merges with pygresql. IIRC it has a very strong Zope DA.

>python2.3-psycopg - Python 2.3 module for PostgreSQL
>  
>
GPL-licensed AFAIK, apparently designed to be more thread-safe and 
efficient than "the others".  Again, popular.  Again, I seem to recall 
that it has a strong Zope DA.

>python2.3-pygresql - PostgreSQL module for Python
>  
>
Ancient code (maintained by my business partner incidentally) which 
predates the DB-API (though is still maintained), intention is to merge 
the project with PoPy.  BSD-style License (it's part of the postgresql 
tree). This is *not* a DB-API module, and I personally would *not* 
suggest using it in new code unless you desperately need the special 
features of the "classic" API it provides... and even then...

>Now I'm confused: Which one should I use?  I'm going to try
>python2.3-psycopg, but maybe the other variants are "easier
>to use"?  Or faster?  Or more complete?  Thread-safe?
>  
>
Mostly licensing issues, thread safety and efficiency are the 
differentiators AFAICS.

Good luck,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From haim at babysnakes.org  Mon Mar 29 04:21:57 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:21:57 +0200
Subject: Python installing on Debian
References: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.28.1080524612.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.03.29.07.54.52.345244@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c48prl$tak$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ryan Spencer wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:43:25 +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
> 
>> It's a very bad idea to install self-compiled applications to the same
>> prefix as the ones from original packages. this can breake many things on
>> your computer. what you have now is a semi-broke python installation, and
>> a package that tries to install itself every time you run apt-get but
>> fails.
>> 
>> I think your best chance to "clean" things would be to uninstall every
>> python2.3 package on your system (see what happenes when you run 'apt-get
>> remove --purge python2.3'). but make sure you understand what you're
>> doing (e.g. do you really want to purge your zope installaion? do you
>> have important stuff there, do you know how to restore it?). then if
>> there's still stuff in /usr/lib/python2.3 and /usr/local/lib/python2.3
>> check that they don't belong to any package (with dpkg -S filename) and
>> remove them. also check if you have a python binary in /usr/local/bin and
>> delete it. then re-install all the python2.3 packages. this of-course
>> will make you lose all your self-compiled modules, so you'll have to
>> re-compile them. this is a long and messy job, but you got yourself into
>> this position. just make sure you understand what you're doing before
>> your doing it.
>> 
>> in the future I would recommend using the source from unstable to build a
>> package if you want a version newer then the one that exist in testing.
>> also use 'stow' when you're compiling sources. this will let you
>> uninstall self-compiled application easilly.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks a lot,
>> 
>> good-luck (you'll need it) :(
> 
> It actually needn't be that messy. dpkg --purge'ing will only remove the
> package in question, whereas using a program such as debfoster and pruning
> the selected target package will remove all it's associate dependencies
> entirely eradicating it from your system, maybe leaving behind empty
> configuration folders in your home directory, but there's no fret for
> that those won't be taking up barely any space and you can always remove
> them later.
in my system 'apt-get remove --purge python2.3' wants to remove 401
packages. that's what I meant messy. you have to check that you didn't
change any system configuration file for any of the packages. and as a
rule, it's a good idea to understand what's you're doing. I've seen too
many times people following instructions and then discovering that nothing
works without knowing how to restore...

> And also, I wouldn't say installing certain packages would break
> much - although I wouldn't mark out the possibility of it happening in
> unstable and testing, I sometimes forget constant recorrection I had to
> go through. Possible replacement of certain library
> files for applications, but that's also an issue of whether or not the
> actual library file or application itself has issues, and that's a risk
> you take in using unstable and testing. For example, I have an Nvidia
> Geforce four and I would constantly have problems with glibc conflicting
> with my video card. If you wander through the debian newsgroups you'll
> notice many others have experienced the same problem, it's merely a
> question of the glibc's lack of testing - which is why it's in the testing
> phase of debian.
the problem happenes when you install self-compiled applications (with
configure, make, make install) under the same prefix. it may work without a
problem, but what if the package gets updated and deletes some of the
self-compiled files but not all of them. think of installing mysql4 under
'/usr' on woody, and then updating the mysql3 package. wouldn't you say it
will break things... :)

Bye
--
Haim




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  1 09:48:47 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:48:47 -0600
Subject: Regular Expressions in Python
In-Reply-To: <c7c33240.0403010618.12391181@posting.google.com>
References: <c7c33240.0403010618.12391181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040301144846.GA3843@unpythonic.net>

opt_spaces  = " *"
identifier  = "[A-Za-z_][A-Za-z0-9_]+"
comment     = "\*.*"
opt_comment = "(%s)?" % comment

pat = re.compile(opt_spaces + identifier + opt_spaces + opt_comment + "$")

for test in (
        "  END *This is a comment",
        "  END  e * This is a line with an error (e)"):
    print test, pat.match(test)

Jeff



From bouil at bouil.org.invalid  Tue Mar 23 19:42:23 2004
From: bouil at bouil.org.invalid (Nicolas Bouillon)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:42:23 +0100
Subject: py files includings each others
Message-ID: <AL48c.32121$zm5.13267@nntpserver.swip.net>

Hi

I have a big problem while including file.
I have more that twenty classes, with one py file per class (more clear 
& clean), and the following test case illustrate well my problem. I 
facts, files including each other before the name of the classes seems 
to be defined, so python fails...

Can you help me to resolve that ?

a.py:
====
from b import Man

class Person:
     def __init__(self):
         pass

     def set_father(self):
         self.father = Father()
====

b.py
====
from a import Person

class Father(Person):
     def __init__(self):
         Person.__init__(self)

p = Father()
====

Runing:
====
bouil at lisa:/tmp$ python b.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "b.py", line 1, in ?
     from a import Person
   File "/tmp/a.py", line 1, in ?
     from b import Man
   File "/tmp/b.py", line 1, in ?
     from a import Person
ImportError: cannot import name Person
bouil at lisa:/tmp$
====

Thanks you.


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Thu Mar 11 17:36:44 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 22:36:44 GMT
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<b470cb58.0403111024.52738e7e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4050e9fc$0$306$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On 11 Mar 2004 10:24:14 -0800, Bob Lancaster <boblancaster at zxmail.com> wrote:
> Uwe Mayer <merkosh at hadiko.de> wrote in message news:<c2pj49$ej3$1 at news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>...
>> 
> 
> (4) For my personal style, I don't like to use constructs that are too
> esoteric.  I tend to avoid the tertiary operator in C++, and I tend
> not to get fancy with the 'and' and 'or' operators in Python.  It
> makes code more readable and maintainable, IMO.  Any programmer who
> writes code without any thought to code maintainance is doing the
> employer or client a disservice.
> 
Like this ?
(extract from a direct translation of C code into python
Nore also this snippet is nested into three while conditions of a method)
                  while charNo < self._cols:
                        charNo += 1
                        ch = self._ifs.read(1)
                        cond = ((ch != '\n') and not(ch==FF and
self._doFFs) and (ch != ''))
                        if not cond:
                            break

                        if ord(ch) >= 32 and ord(ch) <= 127:
                            if ch == '(' or ch == ')' or ch == '\\':
                                ws("\\")
                            ws(ch)
    
How to understand the deep nested, mostly negative parts of condition
cond ? and the test is   if not cond:  which will be equivalent to ...
So, hmmm,.. I need some sleep...

Regards

-- 
Ce qui se con?oit bien s'?nonce clairement,
Et les mots pour le dire viennent ais?ment.
      Boileau Despr?aux  (l'Art Po?tique)


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar  5 09:54:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:54:44 +0100
Subject: reg exp and octal notation
References: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <c2a4bk$5po$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Lucas Branca wrote:

> Could someone explain me the difference between the results below?
> 
> ## $cat octals.txt
> ## \006\034abc
> 
> import re
> 
> a= "\006\034abc"
> preg= re.compile(r'([\0-\377]*)')
> res = preg.search(a)
> print res.groups()
> 
> loader = open('./octals.txt', 'r')
> b = loader.readline()
> preg= re.compile(r'([\0-\377]*)')
> res = preg.search(b)
> print res.groups()
> 
> 
> RESULTS
> 
> ('\x06\x1cabc',)
> 
> ('\\006\\034abc\n',)

a and b are two entirely different strings. Whatever similarity there
appears to be is an artifact of Python's treatment of escape sequences -
only in source code not in an arbitrary file.

Your literal string:

>>> s = "\006\034\n"
>>> s
'\x06\x1c\n'

What you read from the text file:

>>> t = "\\006\\034\n"
>>> t
'\\006\\034\n'

Maybe it helps to learn what's really inside these two strings, so let's
have a look at the ascii codes:

>>> map(ord, s)
[6, 28, 10]
>>> map(ord, t)
[92, 48, 48, 54, 92, 48, 51, 52, 10]

Another example: in source code you can write the newline as

>>> a = """
... """
>>> b = "\n"
>>> c = "\x0a"
>>> d = "\012" 
>>> a,b,c,d
('\n', '\n', '\n', '\n')

But if read from a file \n, \x0a, \012 would just be sequences of two or
four characters. 

Only when you have understood the above you should return to regular
expressions. Your regexp always matches the whole string - i. e. is
redundant (and probably not what you want, but that you would need to
explain in another post).

[\0-\377] is just a fancy way of writing "match any character"
* means "repeat the preceding as often as you want" (including zero times)

Peter



From boblancaster at zxmail.com  Thu Mar 11 13:24:14 2004
From: boblancaster at zxmail.com (Bob Lancaster)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 10:24:14 -0800
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
References: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <b470cb58.0403111024.52738e7e@posting.google.com>

Uwe Mayer <merkosh at hadiko.de> wrote in message news:<c2pj49$ej3$1 at news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I know the python community is not very receptive towards extending the
> python syntax. Nevertheless I'd like to make a suggestion and hear your pro
> and cons.
> 
> I want so suggest a concatenation operator like in mathematics: ?
> such that: 
> 
>     a(b(c(d))) <=> a?b?c(d)
> 
> Now, why do you think such an extension would be completely useless? ;)
> 
> Ciao
> Uwe

One of the things I like best about Python is the ease of use.  This
method would hurt, rather than help the cause, IMO.

Here are the arguments against it:

(1) Where is the ? key on the keyboard?  I do chemistry related
programing, and getting the ? into my GUIs (when I need to show
degrees) takes a bit of time and effort.  The old way is easier to
type, ergo easier to use.

(2) The precedence and ordering of the operation would have to be more
clearly defined.  This seems similar to the Unix pipe | operator. 
However, in your proposal the result of c(d) is piped into b, and that
result is piped into a.  This could lead to confusion.  Should we have
a pipe-style ?, in which case the syntax would be:  c(d)?b?a, or do
the way you suggest: a?b?c(d).  Either way would be confusing to
somebody.  (As far as using | to get around the problems with point
(1),

(3)  How would this operator play with other operators? 

(4) For my personal style, I don't like to use constructs that are too
esoteric.  I tend to avoid the tertiary operator in C++, and I tend
not to get fancy with the 'and' and 'or' operators in Python.  It
makes code more readable and maintainable, IMO.  Any programmer who
writes code without any thought to code maintainance is doing the
employer or client a disservice.

(5) One of the best aspects of Python is how easy it is to learn in
the first place.  Someone with a background in C/C++, Java, Pascal,
Perl, etc. can learn python in a few hours.  Adding weird operators
would make the process more difficult.  Anyone who has been though
language Holy Wars knows that ease of use and learning is about the
only way to convince anyone to even consider Python.

Just my opinions.

-Bob


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 10:45:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:45:40 -0600
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
In-Reply-To: <DB8E3F3C-7436-11D8-8AD1-000A95CDE43E@panix.com>
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-03189A.08483712032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<16465.52956.35691.13784@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<DB8E3F3C-7436-11D8-8AD1-000A95CDE43E@panix.com>
Message-ID: <16465.56100.473809.512232@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Roy> BTW, although Apple ships OSX with both emacs and python
    Roy> pre-installed, they don't include the python-mode.el.  Any idea
    Roy> what the best way is to suggest to Apple that they include it?

Nope.  You might ask on pythonmac-sig at python.org.  I don't know if Jack
Jansen channels Steve Jobs or not, but I think Chuq von Rospach keeps an eye
on that list.  I would think if anyone could squeeze python-mode.el into a
future release he could.

    Roy> They also ship python without gnu readline enabled :-(

That's the joy of being able to build from source. :-)

turn-that-frown-upside-down-ly, y'rs,

Skip




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar  1 20:20:35 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:20:35 -0500
Subject: Novice [].append Help
References: <c20iig08ip@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1047oejec1h8hcf@news.supernews.com>

"waters" <waters at porkless.net> wrote in message
news:c20iig08ip at enews1.newsguy.com...
> I seem to have hit a snag.
>
> I am trying to add the list (l_local) as an item in the output list
> (l_output). "l_local" is a modified copy of the format-list "l_format",
> which will be updated by index position within the function. The problem
> occurs in the following statement block:
>
> def create_apid_list(l_format,l_values):
>      l_output = []
>      for t_curr_line in l_values: # ...for each list in the values list
>          l_local = l_format # ...assign blank format to local list
>          l_local[0] = t_curr_line[0] # ...modify with vendor number
>          l_local[1] = t_curr_line[1] # ...modify with invoice number
>          # print l_local # ... for testing
>          l_output.append(l_local) # ...add list as item to output list
>       return l_output
>
> ...the "l_output.append(l_local)" line is not returning the expected
> result. It is correctly producing a list of lists, but they all contain
> the the same values from the last t_curr_line[0] & t_curr_line[1]
> records in the l_values list. The preceding print statement displays the
> proper values containing data from all of the lists in l_values, so I'm
> not sure what the problem is.

You've fallen into one of the little traps. There's only *one*
copy of the l_format list, and it's being bound to l_local each
time through the loop. Assignment is *not* creating a copy of
the l_format list; it's reusing it, so each slot in the l_output list
is pointing to the *same* list, which of course contains the last
value you put into it.

If you change the 4th line to:

l_local = list(l_format)

it will work because the list type will produce a copy.

John Roth




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 12:03:11 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:03:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux +++
In-Reply-To: <16472.26602.428386.396876@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20040317170311.17243.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Skip,

Thank you so much.  It is exactly the problem.  And it
works by issuing print s.encode('gbk').

I got a good lecture from you about unicode and
encoding.  The other people probably assumed that I
knew.  :)

I appreciate it.

--- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>     Anthony> s = 'abc'
>     Anthony> unicode(s, 'gbk')
>     Anthony> print s # prints 'abc'
> 
>     [fails]
> 
> Anthony,
> 
> The above is a bit nonsensical, since you didn't
> actually modify s.  I
> assume you really meant:
> 
>     s = 'abc'
>     s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
>     print s
> 
> Remember the basic rule of Unicode?  If you don't
> know the encoding, you
> don't know nuthin'.  Unicode objects themselves are
> encoding-neutral.  The
> print statement has to encode s somehow (Unicode
> objects aren't displayed
> directly), so it uses the system's default encoding,
> which from your earlier
> messages appears to be "latin-1".
> 
> Perhaps you're confused by
> 
>     s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
> 
> This says, "Convert the string s to a Unicode object
> assuming the string is
> encoded using the 'gbk' charset, then bind the
> resulting object to s." Note
> the 'gbk' doesn't become an attribute of the Unicode
> object, so later on
> when you try to print it
> 
>     print s
> 
> it needs to decide how to encode the object and for
> that it used the current
> default encoding, typically "ascii".  In the case of
> "abc" that's no
> problem.  For other code points in other character
> sets (I'm not sure I'm
> using the terminology quite right there) you need to
> be explicit:
> 
>     print s.encode('gbk')
> 
> or use an appropriate system-wide default encoding.
> 
> Skip
> 


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
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From ml at dynkin.com  Thu Mar 11 08:22:41 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:22:41 +0900
Subject: Iterating over tuple entries in a list
In-Reply-To: <c2p5gc$cuo$06$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.244.1078953032.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2p5gc$cuo$06$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c2pp56$lab$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Peter Otten wrote:

> If you are really lazy:
> 
> 
>>>>myList = [(1.1, "file1"), (1.2, "file2"), (1.9, "file3")]
>>>>zip(*myList)[0]
> 
> (1.1000000000000001, 1.2, 1.8999999999999999)

Or you could do it:

 >>> myList = [(1.1, "file1"), (1.2, "file2"), (1.9, "file3")]
 >>> map(lambda x:x[0], myList)
[1.1000000000000001, 1.2, 1.8999999999999999]

-- 
George


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 04:02:40 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:02:40 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
	<7iptb4ckea.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <12vv50lkebgvq9fjcdpcukekpbd14m4i72@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:27:57 +0800, Isaac To <kkto at csis.hku.hk> wrote:

>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>    >> The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
>    >> to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
>    >> compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order to
>    >> decide if it's a generator.
>
>    Stephen> Good point. Though to me, it isn't that it's a pain for the
>    Stephen> compiler to search for the 'yield' - I don't care about the
>    Stephen> compilers pain. The problem is that *I* have to look for the
>    Stephen> yield and might not notice it.
>
>I disagree.  It's not just the compile which has to search for that yield
>keyword, we human being reading other's uncommented code (or mis-commented
>code) also has to do the same.  It would do much good if the completely
>different call convention of generator is made much more explicit in the
>definition of the function.

Why say "I disagree" if you actually agree with me? As I said...

"""
The problem is that *I* have to look for the yield and might not
notice it.
"""


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From usenet at spling.plus.com  Fri Mar 19 06:06:47 2004
From: usenet at spling.plus.com (Matthew Bell)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:06:47 GMT
Subject: Basic Inheritance Question
Message-ID: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>

I've got a conceptual problem to do with inheritance.  
I'd be grateful if someone could help to clear up my 
confusion.

An example.  Say I need a class that's basically a 
list, with all the normal list methods, but I want a 
custom __init__ so that the list that is created is 
[1,2,3] rather than [] (yes, it's a bogus example, 
but it does to make the point).  Without bothering 
with inheritance, I could do:

  class mysimplelistclass:
    def __init__(self):
      self.internallist = [1, 2, 3]
	
This would work but I would, of course, need to define 
methods in "mysimpleclass" to deal with all the various 
methods that the original list class provides.

Obviously, the thing to do is to inherit from the list 
class, override the __init__ method and leave the rest 
of the normal list class's methods untouched.  So I'd 
write something like:

  class myinheritedlistclass(list):
    def __init__(self):
      <now what?>
    
It's at this point I get confused.  Obviously, I don't 
use the "self.internallist = [1, 2, 3]" bit as before 
because I'd then need to override all of the rest of 
the normal list methods to get them to act on 
self.internallist.  

Conceptually, I suppose I need something like:

<somemagictoken> = superclass.self.__init__([1, 2, 3)]

but that is, of course, totally ridiculous.

Essentially, then, if I've inherited another class, how 
do I create an instance of the class I've inherited such 
that methods I haven't overrriden will still work, and 
how can I then refer to that instance from my subclass?  
I can guess it's something to do with "self" but exactly 
what, I'm really at a loss.

Any assistance in my confusion would be gratefully received!

Regards,
  Matthew.




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Mon Mar  1 11:36:19 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:36:19 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
In-Reply-To: <c1vo8h$n5p$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vo8h$n5p$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Aahz wrote:
> Yes, Don't Do That.  Do not rely on finalizers for external resources
> (such as threads).

Why?  Isn't a kind of RAII applied to Python?

> Note that your understanding of Python's memory management could use some
> improvement: GC *never* runs on objects containing __del__

Well, I guess you're right.  What I mean is the reasons behind the call 
to __del__, whatever it is ref-counting or something else.  Wouldn't a 
class like CancellableThread, with a sub-class implemented cancel method 
called when the object is not referred in any other thread be useful?

Regards,
Nicolas


From bmorgan at usa.net  Sat Mar 13 01:39:02 2004
From: bmorgan at usa.net (Byron Morgan)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 22:39:02 -0800
Subject: Fatal Python error: Inconsistent interned string state
Message-ID: <85c78d18.0403122239.4be5ad04@posting.google.com>

Anyone run into this before?

I have a python app that has been reliable, running for days on end
without a crash. Suddenly, It repeatedly crashes with the following
message:

"Fatal Python error: Inconsistent interned string state.
abnormal program termination"

Some background:

Platform is W2K.

My app receives data (short strings, 25 - 40 character in length) from
a telnet connection, using telnetlib. The strings are placed in a
queue (I am using Queue.Queue(). The telnet session runs in a thread.
A second thread gets strings from the queue and does stuff with the
contents, involving queries to a mysql database. The main thread just
watches for keyboard input for a shutdown command. Other than that, it
prints to console and logs to a file.

I cannot find any place in my code that overtly uses the concept of an
interned string (I had never before heard of an interned string). The
crashes began after I started using the following simple construct, to
trap a particular value in the data:

if line[0] == '2': (do something)

Naturally, I assume that the problem may have something to do with
this change, but I cannot fathom how it could cause this problem

Byron Morgan


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 22:08:27 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
In-Reply-To: <1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <16479.43563.454892.110945@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    DH> Possible future Python example that uses "as" differently:

    DH> def foo(x as int, y as float) as int:
    DH>     "this function returns an integer, and takes an int & float params"

With no extension beyond the current PEP 318 proposal, you might postulate
returns() and accepts() decorators:

    def foo(x, y) [accepts(int, float), returns(int)]:
        ...

which extend foo() with code to enforce input and output types.  Further,
function attributes could be added which could be used by tools like
pychecker for intermodule type checking.

Skip



From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 21:01:48 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:01:48 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F87@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F87@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <4068D50C.80202@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
>>Robert Brewer wrote:
>>
>>>I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different 
>>
>>approaches
>>
>>>for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly 
>>
>>faster, but I get
>>
>>>Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any 
>>
>>recommendations on
>>
>>>other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a 
>>
>>factor of
>>
>>>25?
>>
>>So, here we go.
>>The attached script processes a gigabyte of data, one
>>million records, in about a minute on my machine, and
>>finds the single duplicate.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Christian! Looks like someone's been having fun. ;)
> 
> But I don't see how your solution avoids the problem, however (some code
> snipped):
> 
>     def process_duplicates(self):
>         for i in range(len(self.files)):
>             seen = {}
>             has = seen.has_key
>             for k in range(self.flushes):
>                 bin = pickle.load(self.files[i])
>                 for key, value in bin:
>                     if has(key):
>                         self.duplicates += 1
>                     else:
>                         seen[key] = value
> 
> ...that is, the 'seen' dictionary is what is growing too large on my
> dataset; it ends up being about 7 million items. Actually, I have three
> such dictionaries (3 different fields which I'm checking for dupes for
> each record). The hashing might cut these sizes down a bit, but I think
> I'm still going to end up having to cache 'seen' (which I call 'indices'
> in my Directory.produce() method) somehow.

Once again going over it, to make things crystal clear:
You don't keep three dicts for whatever reason.
What you pass my algortihm is a complete representation
of your complete record, as simple-minded as possible,
as long as it covers the full contents in a unique way.

Then I will swallow that into a 20 byte hash key and a record
number. This is all what you ever will need, regardless how
complicated your records may be. Be able to do a complete string
representation, and you are done.

The algorithm will then partition this set into 256 bins, which
are unrelated by construction, and examining each of them
individually will solve your problem, as said in prior email.

In a sense of patterns, this is simple "divide and conquer".
Simple and effective, with very few competitors.
Yes I do take contracts.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From solution88pro at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 20 17:45:31 2004
From: solution88pro at hotmail.com (Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:45:31 +0600
Subject: Any module which can act as a BitSet?
Message-ID: <BAY8-F45DqGxi5wHzWH0006e7b3@hotmail.com>

I wanted to know in Python are there any module available which can perform 
the same funtionality as a BitSet classs in Java. Here is the Java Doc for 
that.

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/BitSet.html

Senthoor

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From angoyal at siebel.com  Wed Mar 24 14:29:18 2004
From: angoyal at siebel.com (Anuj Goyal)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 11:29:18 -0800
Subject: Scons help!
Message-ID: <f11a275e.0403241129.59f48eaf@posting.google.com>

Does anyone have a scons file that make use of multiple compilers on
win32 and linux?

I am trying to get my scons script to work on win32 (using cl.exe) and
linux (using gcc) .

it is a nightmare! I need a builder (or set of builders) that is
flexible enough for both platforms.  I tried to find projects that
make use of this on the net, but could not find any :(


opt = Options(None, ARGUMENTS)
opt.AddOptions(
	EnumOption(
		'COMPILER',
		'The compiler you want to use',
		'cl',
		['cl','gcc']))

env = Environment(options=opt)

CLDEBUGCPPFLAGS = r'/nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "_DEBUG"
/D "WIN32" /D "_WINDOWS" /D "BOBO_DLL_EXPORT" /D "USE_STANDARD_HEAP"
/YX /FD /c'

env['BUILDERS']['cl'] = Builder(action = 'cl '+ CLDEBUGCPPFLAGS +'
%SOURCE')
env['BUILDERS']['gcc'] = Builder(action = 'gcc -co %TARGET %SOURCE') 


env['BUILDERS']['MyCompiler'] = env['BUILDERS'][env['COMPILER']]

env.MyCompiler('myheap.cpp')


and here is the output.

F:\work\src\mallocheap>scons
scons: Reading SConscript files ...
scons: done reading SConscript files.
scons: Building targets ...
cl /nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "_DEBUG" /D "WIN32" /D
"_WINDOWS" /D "BOBO_DLL_EXPORT" /D "USE_STANDARD_HEAP"
 /YX /FD /c %SOURCE
Command line warning D4024 : unrecognized source file type '%SOURCE',
object file assumed
Command line warning D4027 : source file '%SOURCE' ignored
Command line warning D4021 : no action performed
scons: done building targets.


From niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu  Tue Mar 23 18:02:00 2004
From: niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu (niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:02:00 -0500
Subject: new style classes
Message-ID: <0403241080.AA1080145343@ws3.cimex.com.cu>

I've seen every where this term of new style classes that inherits from a base
class Object, but I haven't realize the advantage that this approach offers.

Any one has some link where I can read about it?

Thanks in advance
Niurka




From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Sun Mar 21 09:27:36 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 06:27:36 -0800
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403160058.626d0a35@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0403170242.759ac8d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403210627.2cfe88c8@posting.google.com>

Sorry I didn't respond in a timely fashion; I've been out of town.

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote in message news:<5d83790c.0403170242.759ac8d9 at posting.google.com>...
> List iterators likely won't change because
> * it does not encourage an error prone programming style
> * it is documented to perform as it currently does
> * there is likely existing code that relies on the current behavior
> * there are performance issues which changing it
> * there do not seem to be compelling, general use cases to warrant a
> change

These are all reasonable objections.

 
> Also, I'm not sure your proposal is self-consistent.  If I read it
> correctly, there is a strong notion of having the iterator remember
> the last item emitted even if its position changes.  However, with a
> combination of slice deletion and insertion, the notion of the last
> item emitted becomes muddy:
> 
> lyst = range(10)
> it = iter(lyst)
> for i in xrange(5):
>    it.next()
> lyst[3:7] = [20]
> print it.next()          # Should this print 20 or 7 ?

In this case my class returns a 20.  My thinking on this was that if a
slice containing the "normal" next item is replaced by a slice, the
iterator should go to the beginning of the replacement slice, EXCEPT
in the case where the new slice is the same length as the old slice,
in which case the iterator should stay where it is.  The exception is
for backwards compatibility with current uses.


> Py2.4 adds a new type, collections.deque(), that can reasonably be
> made to do what your asking (workable because there is no slicing,
> just appending or popping from either end and setitem value
> mutations):
> 
> >>> from collections import deque
> >>> d = deque('abcdefg')
> >>> it = iter(d)
> >>> it.next()
>  'a'
> >>> it.next()
>  'b'
> >>> d.extend('hijk')
> >>> d.appendleft('z')
> >>> d.appendleft('y')
> >>> list(it)   # this picks up right where it left off
>  ['c', 'd', 'e', 'f', 'g', 'h', 'i', 'j', 'k']
> >>> d
> deque(['y', 'z', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f', 'g', 'h', 'i', 'j',
> 'k'])

This looks great.  It would indeed work for the class I had in mind. 
Frankly, the fact that the iterator for deque works *correctly* seems
to beg the question, "why doesn't the iterator for list work
correctly?"  I know, see above for the reasons.  The current list
iteration stills seems ugly, and I know it's jarring to new users
because I've been jarred by it, have forgotten it, and then been
jarred again.  As for performance, I think that it could be coded so
that all performance penalties would be within the iterator, and there
only after the list has been changed.  There follows a revision of the
code I posted originally, which attempts to demonstrate that.

cheers,
Jess


import itertools

class muterable_list(list):
    """just like a list except it iterates gracefully under
mutation"""
    Insertion = object()
    Deletion = object()
    def __init__(self, object_):
        list.__init__(self, object_)
        self._mutations = []
        self._iterators = {}
        self._iterators_keys = itertools.count()
    def __iter__(self):
        key = self._iterators_keys.next()
        self._iterators[key] = []
        i = 0
        try:
            while True:
                for position, direction in self._iterators[key]:
                    if isinstance(position, int):
                        if position < i:
                            if direction is self.Deletion:
                                i += -1
                            else:
                                i += 1
                    elif direction is self.Deletion: # slice deletion
                        start, stop, step = position.indices(i)
                        i += (start - stop)/step
                    elif position.start < i:         # slice insertion
                        i += position.stop - position.start
                self._iterators[key] = []
                yield self[i]
                i += 1
                for iterator in self._iterators:
                    self._iterators[iterator].extend(self._mutations)
                self._mutations = []
        except IndexError:
            del self._iterators[key]
    def __delslice__(self, i, j):
        list.__delslice__(self, i, j)
        if self._iterators:
            self._mutations.append((slice(i, j), self.Deletion))
    def __setslice__(self, i, j, object_):
        list.__setslice__(self, i, j, object_)
        if self._iterators:
            length = len(object_)
            if length != (j - i):
                self._mutations.append((slice(i, j), self.Deletion))
                self._mutations.append((slice(i, i + length),
                                        self.Insertion))
    def __delitem__(self, index):
        list.__delitem__(self, index)
        if self._iterators:
            self._mutations.append((index, self.Deletion))
    def __setitem__(self, index, object_):
        list.__setitem__(self, index, object_)
        if self._iterators:
            length = len(object_)
            if (isinstance(index, slice) and (index.step == 1 or
                index.step is None) and length != (index.start - 
                index.stop)):
                self._mutations.append((index, self.Deletion))
                self._mutations.append((slice(index.start,
                                              index.start+length),
                                        self.Insertion))
    def insert(self, index, object_):
        list.insert(self, index, object_)
        if self._iterators:
            self._mutations.append((index, self.Insertion))
    def pop(self, index):
        r = list.pop(self, index)
        if self._iterators:
            self._mutations.append((index, self.Deletion))
        return r
    def remove(self, object_):
        if self._iterators:
            mutation = self.index(object_), self.Deletion
            list.remove(self, object_)
            self._mutations.append(mutation)
        else:
            list.remove(self, object_)


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Mar 29 06:49:01 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:49:01 +0200
Subject: easy verbose in functions
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>
References: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40680D2D.9060001@zoran.com>

Hello Pascal,

> I've a function like this:
> def myfunction(data, verbose = False):
>    dothis...
>    if verbose: print 'I do this'
>    dothisother
>    if verbose: print 'I do this other'
>    ...
> 
> How can I do to exclude eachtime the `if verbose` statement?
> 
> I tried `print verbose and 'I do this'` but it's printing `False`.
> So I tried with `verbose = None` in the definition, but it's printing None!
Try the logging package?

HTH.
Miki


From bscholln at mac.com  Fri Mar  5 17:21:38 2004
From: bscholln at mac.com (benjamin schollnick)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:21:38 GMT
Subject: Need a Progress Bar/Meter for Tkinter
References: <040320041859589376%bscholln@mac.com>
	<mailman.14.1078484152.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <050320041721385005%bscholln@mac.com>



> Google is your friend...
> 
> google python Tkinter Progress Bar
> 
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/2718

Sorry... I forgot to mention by specifics, that I had tried that one, 
and it does not seem to work on my Python v2.33 install...

The root TK window starts up, but disappears, and almost immediately
quits...  No progress bar, but the program itself works...

I just found one today that works....

But I don't have it here to post....

Either way...  I am very suprised that this is not a standard widget
in the Tkinter module...

      - Ben


From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Fri Mar 12 01:25:03 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:25:03 GMT
Subject: Newby Question: Python and A Nested Dictionary
References: <_G84c.1393$P45.950@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c2rc2l$1vtcg7$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3Jc4c.4710$fg7.3800@fe2.columbus.rr.com>


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c2rc2l$1vtcg7$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> kbass wrote:
> > I am new to Python and I am attempting to retrieve data from a database
and
> > I would like to place this data into a nested dictionary. After placing
the
> > data into a dictionary, I would like to loop through the data using for
> > loops. How would I do this?
>
> It's hard to say exactly how to go about building the dictionary
> without knowing more about the format of the data and how you
> want to structure it. Posting some sample data together with
> the dict you want to build from it would help.
>
> As for looping over the dictionaries, some general facts you
> might find useful are:
>
>     for key in dictionary:
>        ...
>
> will loop over all the keys in the dictionary.
>
>     for value in dictionary.values():
>        ...
>
> will loop over the values (but you won't know what
> their keys were).
>
>     for key, value in dictionary.items():
>        ...
>
> will loop over all the key/value pairs in the dictionary.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>

An extra would be:

Data Source: Select region, source from accounts;

I want to be able to store the data from the select statement into something
like:
revenue [source][region = return data from the select statement

To loop over the data, I would like to perform something like:
    for src in revenue:
      for reg in revenue[source]:
        for value in revenue[source][region]
           print something

Hope this makes sense. Thanks!

kbass




From jamesl at appliedminds.com  Sat Mar 13 16:45:06 2004
From: jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 13:45:06 -0800
Subject: Problems with unicode
Message-ID: <a091da2f.0403131345.5e82b07e@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to write out a XML document using a StringIO class, however
I always run into the following error:

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0x92 in position
4: ordinal
not in range(128)

Apparently in the batch that I'm encoding there is one string with
non-ascii characters in it.
Is there any way to just have it encode everything as unicode and not
ascii?
Or should I just strip out non-ascii characters (a last resort which I
do not want to do)
Thanks.


From spam_bait101 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 02:32:05 2004
From: spam_bait101 at yahoo.com (sb)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 23:32:05 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>

spam_bait101 at yahoo.com (sb) wrote in message news:<221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d at posting.google.com>...

> I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and
> about editing python with vim.

Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
docs, books or tutorials)


From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 04:38:04 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 01:38:04 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403180138.6eab3d7b@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Bouillon <bouil at bouil.org.invalid> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I would like to replace accentuel chars (like "????", "????" or "????") with non 
> accetued ones ("????" -> "e", "????" -> "e", "????" -> "a").
> 
> I have tried string.replace method, but it seems dislike non ascii chars...
> 
> Can you help me please ?
> Thanks.

You could try experimenting with the 'unicodedata' module:

>>> import unicodedata
>>> [unicodedata.name(x) for x in u'123 abc @#$ \u00ff']
['DIGIT ONE', 'DIGIT TWO', 'DIGIT THREE', 'SPACE', 'LATIN SMALL LETTER
A', 'LATIN SMALL LETTER B', 'LATIN SMALL LETTER C', 'SPACE',
'COMMERCIAL AT', 'NUMBER SIGN', 'DOLLAR SIGN', 'SPACE', 'LATIN SMALL
LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS']
>>> unicodedata.lookup('latin capital letter a with grave')
u'\xc0'

You could strip the ' WITH...' part when applicable and convert names
back to string. You would only need to process characters with ord >=
160.

HTH,

AdSR


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Fri Mar 12 13:54:49 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:54:49 GMT
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
	<mailman.308.1079092513.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxznal3ngm.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

> John Benson wrote:
> > I propose that we change the language of this board to Spanish, as long as
> > we're so vocally committed to using best-of-breed languages. Derived from
> > the Iberian dialect of vulgar Latin, Spanish has many important advantages
> > over English:
> 
> > Thinly-veiled threat: If this board doesn't immediately cut over to Spanish
> > because it is obviously superior to English, I shall be forced to consider
> > its badmouthing of other computer languages as just so much small-minded
> > special pleading.
> 
> How about Esperanto?
> 
> Zamenhoff-forever-ly - y'rs Gerrit.
> 
> -- 
> Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 12/03 11:25 UTC:
> 	6.0?C haze mostly cloudy wind 5.4 m/s ESE (57 m above NAP)
> -- 
> Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
> 	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/
> 

Hmmm.  How many Pythonistas have studied Esperanto?  Looks like 2 of
us so far.  The Esperanto headquarters is in Netherlands, so there is
a suspicious confluence of geography with Python.



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Mar 26 01:26:18 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:26:18 +0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<105f5pqh0jhs3cd@news.supernews.com>
	<5d83790c.0403251936.2734dbee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7iad24m8dx.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Raymond" == Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> writes:

    Raymond> [Axel Boldt]
    >> > >>> l=[1] > >>> s=l > >>> l.append(s) > >>> w=[1] > >>> r=[1,w] >
    >> >>> w.append(r) > >>> s [1, [...]]  > >>> w [1, [1, [...]]]  > >>>
    >> s==w > True
    >> >
    >> > Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.
    >> >
    >> > >>> s[0]=2 > >>> w[0]=2 > >>> s==w > False
    >> >
    >> > All of a sudden they have become unequal.

    Raymond> [John Roth]
    >> You've got a recursive structure! I originally thought that the [...]
    >> was something you'd done to the printout, but it isn't.
    >> 
    >> I think the original True is a bug. It's getting confused by the
    >> recursion.

    Raymond> Armin Rigo found and fixed this for Py2.4:

    Raymond> Python 2.4a0 (#46, Mar 23 2004, 01:55:44) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
    Raymond> (Intel)] on win32 <snipped>
    >>>> s
    Raymond> [1, [...]]
    >>>> w
    Raymond> [1, [1, [...]]]
    >>>> s==w

    Raymond> Traceback (most recent call last): File "<pyshell#9>", line 1,
    Raymond> in -toplevel- s==w RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth
    Raymond> exceeded in cmp

I'm confused... what makes the new behaviour more "correct" than the original?

Regards,
Isaac.


From catcher at linuxmail.org  Sat Mar 27 12:22:44 2004
From: catcher at linuxmail.org (zatoichi)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:22:44 -0500
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
In-Reply-To: <106b7k2s8af5c3c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b7k2s8af5c3c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <kJCdnZOwIr75JfjdRVn-gQ@adelphia.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <40657D14.3FBE7E82 at doe.carleton.ca>,

> My current instinct is that you'll be happiest with Perl--
> but it's a close choice, all around.  I'm most accomplished
> in Tcl, and would happily use it, or Perl, or Python.  It
> seems to me, though, that it's crucial that you be able
> to exploit libraries that pertain to your domain, and, in
> particular, optimized engines for linear algebra, graph
> theory, and linear and mathematical programming.  Tcl 
> lacks the weight that Perl and, to an increasing extent,
> Python can boast in their libraries.
Since you happily use Perl, Python or Tcl, I have a question. How do you 
decided which one to use?  :-)

Robert


From mgr3 at aber.ac.uk  Wed Mar 24 17:50:49 2004
From: mgr3 at aber.ac.uk (Matt)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 14:50:49 -0800
Subject: sorting times
Message-ID: <4af8e6c7.0403241450.74350e21@posting.google.com>

X-No-archive: yes

Hi,
I'm a cs student, and working on an assignment using python. uber cool
except...

I have an assignment that requires me to analyse the time complexities
of bubble sort and quick sort.
I don't want any help - but would like to know if people consider the
following times to be 'normal':

I have extensively tested both algorithms on smaller sets of data, as
well as the parser class i created - quite a few test cases for such a
small app. (all tests pass)

Environment:
Running on linux 2.4 / pentium 4.2 Ghz / 1GB  RAM

Results:
File: two columns, <str>\t<float>, 
pow(10, 5) lines in file.

Bubble Sort takes 32 - 35 minutes
Quick Sort takes 8 seconds


My quick sort implementation uses random pivot selection and is
recursive,
the bubble sort is adaptive, uses a "flipped" flag to exit early if
data is already sorted.

I implemented both algorithms in C , as bubble sort used to take 8
hours.

Any comments much appriciated.

Matt
NB. I haven't posted the code in case of plagerism.


From john.abel at pa.press.net  Mon Mar  8 03:47:48 2004
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:47:48 +0000
Subject: Gadfly or gadfly or Gadfly.gadfly() or _?
In-Reply-To: <20040308004630.1096705640.eric@zomething.com>
References: <20040308004630.1096705640.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <404C3334.8010804@pa.press.net>

On my Linux machine:

Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 28 2003, 12:13:48)
[GCC 3.3 20030226 (prerelease) (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import gadfly
 >>>

It looks like your install didn't work properly.  You could try running 
"python setup.py install" again.

HTH

John

Eric @ Zomething wrote:

>My interest was piqued enough to try Gadfly, but I find myself struggling to install it, a new problem for this newB.  Not sure if any of this is the distribution's "fault" or just my lack of understanding of Python:
>
>1) I notice there is no py file named "gadfly.py".  How does Python find and define the namespace?
>2) I have installed the files in this directory under a Windows XP OS:  C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gadfly
>3) "import gadfly", as shown in the docs, returns an ImportError
>4) "import Gadfly" does not return any errors.  Is this because of the capitalization of the directory name?
>
>then, following the instructions in the docs:
>
>  
>
>>>>connection = gadfly.gadfly()
>>>>        
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
>    connection = gadfly.gadfly()
>NameError: name 'gadfly' is not defined
>
>  
>
>>>>connection=Gadfly.gadfly()
>>>>        
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
>    connection=Gadfly.gadfly()
>TypeError: 'module' object is not callable
>
>Have I somehow mucked up the namespace upon installation?  Am I entering the wrong commands?
>
>Any pointers appreciated.
>
>
>Eric
>
>  
>



From otto_kruse at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 05:26:12 2004
From: otto_kruse at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Otto_Kr=FCse?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:26:12 +0100
Subject: py2exe distribution wants internet access (DNS)
Message-ID: <40503ec2$0$77271$abc4f4c3@news.wanadoo.nl>

Hello,

I've made a small GUI program that connects with a MySQL database to 
collect information which is put on the screen. The database and the 
program are used for testing purposes so I installed them locally and 
only use them locally (so on my own computer).

When I run the script from a system (WinXP) shell through the python 
interpreter all goes well. However when I make an executable program of 
it through py2exe there's a problem. When I start the .exe file the 
program wants to 'talk' to my DNS on the internet. My firewall sees this 
and asks me if this all right.

Now if say 'yes' to the firewall the program runs as expected. But if I 
say 'no' my program won't connect to the MySQL server. Now this isn't 
quite right, I run MySQL locally so DNS access should not be necessary. 
This firewall stuff also makes distributing the program harder: not all 
users have access to firewall choices, on some machines programs are 
blocked by default.

Why does the original python script run normally but does the py2exe 
'conversion' of it want DNS access? How can I change this?

Thanks in advance,
Otto Kr?se


From llothar at web.de  Fri Mar  5 19:20:44 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 16:20:44 -0800
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403051620.40d3b42@posting.google.com>

Remy Blank <remy.blank_asps at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<404844e3$1 at epflnews.epfl.ch>...

> As a fan of TDD (test-driven development), I use the unittest module to 
> write the test cases for these tools. However, to make the test cases 
> independent of the file system environment, I simulate a file system 
> tree with a mock object using the following technique (sorry for the 
> long posting):

Setup a test directory with data files and in the setUp method copy
the items from the directory to a temporary directory. Do the tests
with the temporary directory and remove it in the tearDown method.

This is the simplest case to avoid strange effects.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 22:56:24 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:56:24 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <7ln4501mfe70sgrrk25fn0sj80f6cn8vt7@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7ln4501mfe70sgrrk25fn0sj80f6cn8vt7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16466.34408.708759.310700@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Just an FYI, I didn't write this statement:

    Dave> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:42:06 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
    Dave> wrote:

    >> >> Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least
    >> >> until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one
    >> >> problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its
    >> >> behaviour.

    Dave> I've written a short description of what reload() does to try and
    Dave> help reduce the confusion.  This is intended for EEs who are new
    Dave> to Python.

I'm not sure why you're planning to teach them reload().  I've used it
rarely in about ten years of Python programming.  Its basic semantics are
straightforward, but as we've seen from the discussions in this thread
things can go subtly awry.  Just tell people to either not create references
which refer to globals in other modules (e.g. "quote = urllib.quote") if
they intend to use reload() or tell them to just exit and restart their
application, at least until they understand the limitations of trying to
modify a running Python program.

Skip



From noah at noah.org  Tue Mar 16 14:02:01 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 11:02:01 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403161102.668feaa3@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Bouillon <bouil at bouil.org.invalid> wrote in message news:<Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006 at nntpserver.swip.net>...
> Hi
> 
> I would like to replace accentuel chars (like "??", "??" or "??") with non 
> accetued ones ("??" -> "e", "??" -> "e", "??" -> "a").
> 
> I have tried string.replace method, but it seems dislike non ascii chars...

The following is the code that I use. This looks like what you are asking for.

In case this gets corrupted you can also find it here:
    http://sourceforge.net/snippet/detail.php?type=snippet&id=101229
This has some improvements to readability and speed, but it is basically 
the same:
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/251871

Yours,
Noah

#!/usr/bin/env python
"""
UNICODE Hammer -- The Stupid American

I needed something that would take a UNICODE string and
smack it into ASCII. This function doesn't just strip out the characters.
It tries to convert Latin-1 characters into ASCII equivalents where possible.

We get customer mailing address data from Europe, but most of our systems
cannot handle the Latin-1 characters. All I needed was to prepare addresses
for a few different shipping systems that we use.
None of these systems support anything but ASCII.
After getting headaches trying to deal with this problem using Python's
built-in UNICODE support I gave up and  decided to write something that
would solve the problem the American way -- with brute force.
I convert all european accented letters to their unaccented equivalents.
I realize this isn't perfect, but for my purposes the packages get delivered.

Noah Spurrier noah at noah.org
License free and public domain
"""

def latin1_to_ascii (unicrap):
    """This replaces UNICODE Latin-1 characters with
    something equivalent in 7-bit ASCII. All characters in the standard
    7-bit ASCII range are preserved. In the 8th bit range all the Latin-1
    accented letters are stripped of their accents. Most symbol characters
    are converted to something meaninful. Anything not converted is deleted.
    """
    xlate={0xc0:'A', 0xc1:'A', 0xc2:'A', 0xc3:'A', 0xc4:'A', 0xc5:'A',
        0xc6:'Ae', 0xc7:'C',
        0xc8:'E', 0xc9:'E', 0xca:'E', 0xcb:'E',
        0xcc:'I', 0xcd:'I', 0xce:'I', 0xcf:'I',
        0xd0:'Th', 0xd1:'N',
        0xd2:'O', 0xd3:'O', 0xd4:'O', 0xd5:'O', 0xd6:'O', 0xd8:'O',
        0xd9:'U', 0xda:'U', 0xdb:'U', 0xdc:'U',
        0xdd:'Y', 0xde:'th', 0xdf:'ss',
        0xe0:'a', 0xe1:'a', 0xe2:'a', 0xe3:'a', 0xe4:'a', 0xe5:'a',
        0xe6:'ae', 0xe7:'c',
        0xe8:'e', 0xe9:'e', 0xea:'e', 0xeb:'e',
        0xec:'i', 0xed:'i', 0xee:'i', 0xef:'i',
        0xf0:'th', 0xf1:'n',
        0xf2:'o', 0xf3:'o', 0xf4:'o', 0xf5:'o', 0xf6:'o', 0xf8:'o',
        0xf9:'u', 0xfa:'u', 0xfb:'u', 0xfc:'u',
        0xfd:'y', 0xfe:'th', 0xff:'y',
        0xa1:'!', 0xa2:'{cent}', 0xa3:'{pound}', 0xa4:'{currency}',
        0xa5:'{yen}', 0xa6:'|', 0xa7:'{section}', 0xa8:'{umlaut}',
        0xa9:'{C}', 0xaa:'{^a}', 0xab:'<<', 0xac:'{not}',
        0xad:'-', 0xae:'{R}', 0xaf:'_', 0xb0:'{degrees}',
        0xb1:'{+/-}', 0xb2:'{^2}', 0xb3:'{^3}', 0xb4:"'",
        0xb5:'{micro}', 0xb6:'{paragraph}', 0xb7:'*', 0xb8:'{cedilla}',
        0xb9:'{^1}', 0xba:'{^o}', 0xbb:'>>',
        0xbc:'{1/4}', 0xbd:'{1/2}', 0xbe:'{3/4}', 0xbf:'?',
        0xd7:'*', 0xf7:'/'
        }

    r = ''
    for i in unicrap:
        if xlate.has_key(ord(i)):
            r += xlate[ord(i)]
        elif ord(i) >= 0x80:
            pass
        else:
            r += i
    return r

# This gives an example of how to use latin1_to_ascii().
# This creates a string will all the characters in the latin-1 character set
# then it converts the string to plain 7-bit ASCII.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    s = unicode('','latin-1')
    for c in range(32,256):
        if c != 0x7f:
            s = s + unicode(chr(c),'latin-1')
    print 'INPUT:'
    print s.encode('latin-1')
    print
    print 'OUTPUT:'
    print latin1_to_ascii(s)


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar  5 14:30:35 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:35 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>
	<0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <c1jh40h7n4hd08gotbolvsho8je5ho1fi4@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:35:01 GMT, Dang Griffith
<noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote:

>In any case, I think the one-liner posted satisfies nearly all of the
>requirements.  
>
>import sys
>def pr(*args): sys.stdout.write(''.join([str(i) for i in args]))
>
>Where it fails is the difference between a function and a statement.
>The OP said [one of] the advantages of a statement is that there is no
>need for parenthesis.  This is the reason I brought up the point that
>a function and a statement are semantically different, and why none of
>the function-based suggestions will satisfy the OP's plea.

The inconvenience of typing a single set of parens seems trivial to me
in comparison to the extra burden of an additional syntax.

In reading someone else's code, I rely on the *syntactic* difference
between functions and statements to convey possibly different
*symantics*.  If it says
print a,b,c
I know exactly what that statement means.  If it says
prn(a,b,c)
I know to look for a definition of 'prn'.  Note that in this case,
there are *two* syntactic differences, the parens and the keyword.
The keyword difference is essential, because you *can* say
print(a,b,c)
and still be using the built-in print statement (although with a
slightly different result.)

So, do what you like with the parens, but leave the keywords alone.
Beyond this one statement, the idea might work as a general
enhancement.  If the first token in a statement is not a keyword, and
the second is not an assignment operator, then look for a function
definition, and don't require parens.  This would allow you to say
'printF a,b,c' or 'importR module'
and have these functions/statements do whatever you want.

At this point my vote for adding more syntax to Python would be -1.  I
prefer the added readability of a more consistent use of parens over
the convenience of leaving them off.  I see the parens as having much
the same role as the unnecessary ':' at the end of some statements.
It clues beginners as to the structure of a statement, and it enhances
readability for experts.

Now if we want to talk about getting rid of 'self.' ... :>)

-- Dave



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 29 14:52:34 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:52:34 -0500
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
References: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <106gvmljo0q1m83@news.supernews.com>


"Torsten Mohr" <tmohr at s.netic.de> wrote in message
news:c49t6n$4mh$1 at schleim.qwe.de...
> Hi,
>
> i'd like to use 64 Bit Integer values in Python,
> can anybody give me a hint on what are the limits
> in Python?
>
> Can i use signed and unsigned 64 Bit Integers?

Yes and no. Python has unlimited precision long
integers, so it should work without any special
effort for most things.

If you're trying to exploit truncation at the 64 bit
mark, though, you'll have to do it yourself with
tests.

John Roth
>
>
> Thanks for hints,
> Torsten.
>




From rzantow at ntelos.net  Mon Mar 29 11:26:37 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:26:37 GMT
Subject: tabbing probs (was: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes)
References: <106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns94BB74BCA2718rzed@63.223.5.95>

Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in
news:406848CD.5070100 at mlug.missouri.edu: 

> 
>>I think you misunderstood. There is no "standard" length of
>>a tab. A tab is supposed to insert (or otherwise render the
>>equivalent of inserting) enough spaces to go to the next "tab
>>stop", which by convention is a multiple of 8 columns on a fixed
>>width mechanical typewriter. This is where tabs originated.
>>  
>>
> No, I just fail to see why it matters. A tab could be 4 columns,
> 8 columns, 15 columns, or whatever on a particular editor and
> code blocks will still line up.
> 
>>It matters. 8 columns is much too wide for indents in readable
>>code. People do differ on that, but that seems to be the
>>concensus. 
>>  
>>
> So rather than switch editors or change your editors settings
> you'd rather everyone be forced to use spaces? I presume four
> spaces? If someone uses eight spaces to indent will that also
> break the code? It seems to me that it'd be easier to configure
> an editor to show tabs as four columns, if you so desire, than
> to configure an editor to show eight spaces as four columns.
> Eight spaces is no easier to read than a tab that takes eight
> columns. It's just more typing to correct the problem. 
> 
> By my own preference, if I'm forced to use spaces to indent
> rather than tabs, then I'll most likely use a single space to
> indent because I don't want to deal with pressing the space and
> backspace keys multiple times (trying to keep count) to make
> blocks line up correctly. I also don't find it acceptable to use
> an editor which kludges together such space using behavior for
> me to do what tabs would have done in the first place. Overall,
> I think I find code that uses a single tab, rather than a single
> space, to be easier to read. 
> 

As long as you are the only one to work on your code, your 
viewpoint may not cause you any problems. I and others are telling 
you that tabs can cause problems with some software, and you can 
rightly avoid using that software as long as you don't share your 
code. Once that happens, though, things get more complicated.

One aspect of the tab/spaces issue involves working on other 
people's code. You like tabs, I like spaces. Supposing that I 
prefer to show a single level of indention as five spaces (for some 
reason), what happens when I have to make a change to your code? If 
I am aware that you use tabs, then I can adjust to it, but how do I 
become aware? To me, it looks like you're putting five spaces in 
for each level of indention. The chances are that I won't know 
otherwise until I've made some changes, saved the file and tried to 
run it. If some of those changes involve changing an indention 
level, I may insert spaces before or after your tabs, so now such a 
change leaves a line with mixed tabs and spaces, but no visible 
indication of which is where. Now when someone else grabs the code 
and displays it with tabs set to four spaces instead, what happens? 
No sympathy there, either, I would bet, but you do see how things 
like that can happen even using only your tools, don't you?

-- 
rzed



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Mar 30 23:49:02 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 20:49:02 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403302049.4d5d4c91@posting.google.com>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message news:<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>...
> I have never left a group because of the trolls.
> I have never left a group because of the noobies.
> I have left a group because of the constant whining about top posting.

Then maybe you should consider leaving c.l.py ?

               Michele Simionato


From jeder at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 29 02:59:36 2004
From: jeder at earthlink.net (Ryan Spencer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:59:36 GMT
Subject: Python installing on Debian
References: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.28.1080524612.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.03.29.07.54.52.345244@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.29.07.59.41.487444@earthlink.net>


> It actually needn't be that messy. dpkg --purge'ing will only remove the
> package in question, whereas using a program such as debfoster and pruning
> the selected target package will remove all it's associate dependencies
> entirely eradicating it from your system, maybe leaving behind empty
> configuration folders in your home directory, but there's no fret for
> that those won't be taking up barely any space and you can always remove
> them later.
> 
> So, I'd say use debfoster and prune the python2.3 package. It won't be a
> messy process at all. Just remember, when it prompts the package
> python2.3, remember to push 'p' for prune, not 'n' for that 'n' (standing
> for 'no') will do the same thing as dpkg --purge and simply remove the
> package in question.
> 
> There is the beginning concern of when using debfoster it will inquire
> about every single dpkg on your system (If I am correct, it should read
> something alike the apt-cache which, even with manual installation of
> dpkg's, still is written to, keeping a meticulous record of all dpkg's
> on your system. If not the apt-cache, I know it's another file.) But once
> you get past all the programs you want and don't want, it keeps the
> remaining information in the /var/lib/debfoster/keepers file, which you
> can always edit if you accidentilly kept something.
> 
> And also, I wouldn't say installing certain packages would break
> much - although I wouldn't mark out the possibility of it happening in
> unstable and testing, I sometimes forget constant recorrection I had to
> go through. Possible replacement of certain library
> files for applications, but that's also an issue of whether or not the
> actual library file or application itself has issues, and that's a risk
> you take in using unstable and testing. For example, I have an Nvidia
> Geforce four and I would constantly have problems with glibc conflicting
> with my video card. If you wander through the debian newsgroups you'll
> notice many others have experienced the same problem, it's merely a
> question of the glibc's lack of testing - which is why it's in the testing
> phase of debian.
> 
> The underline is that testing and unstable are more for those that A)
> Don't mind having sometimes broken packages in exchange for bleeding edge
> software and B) Developers helping in the aid of testing out applications
> and hopefully moving testing into it's 'stable' state if tested vigorously
> enough.
> 
> Take Care,
> ~Ryan

Also, though, Reading back through, He is right about the possible
self-compiled modules, which then I would also advise using stow for
keeping things neat.

~Ryan



From werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.com  Thu Mar 11 07:26:25 2004
From: werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:26:25 +0100
Subject: py2exe win32all: Can write, but not read FileVersion ...
Message-ID: <c2plth$8ap$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Hi,


Python is really great, for small to big programs. For my colleagues and
some circumstances I sometimes need to "compile" a script using py2exe.

Cause I use Windows, I like to use the (Windows) ability, to add some
version infos, comments, etc to the exe file.

If I use explorer to check, these properties are visible and correct.
But if I use _win32api.GetFileVersion_ , I get nothing for the language
dependent resource...

At the end you may see my example source code, which is almost the
original code from win32all and py2exe. Just compile and start.

BTW: I found the same behavior for (most/all?) .pyd from win32all
and for PythonWin.exe.


Any idea?


Thanks in advance
Werner Merkl


Versions I use:
 - Python 2.3.3
 - win32all 163
 - py2exe 0.5.0

Source code:
------------ getfileversion.py ----------------------------------
import os, win32api, sys

ver_strings=('Comments','InternalName','ProductName',
    'CompanyName','LegalCopyright','ProductVersion',
    'FileDescription','LegalTrademarks','PrivateBuild',
    'FileVersion','OriginalFilename','SpecialBuild')
##fname = os.environ["comspec"]
fname = sys.argv[0]
d=win32api.GetFileVersionInfo(fname, '\\')
## backslash as parm returns dictionary of numeric info corresponding to
VS_FIXEDFILEINFO struc
for n, v in d.items():
    print n, v

print "%s: %d.%d.%d.%d" % (fname,d['FileVersionMS'] / (256*256),
d['FileVersionMS'] % (256*256), d['FileVersionLS'] / (256*256),
d['FileVersionLS'] % (256*256))

pairs=win32api.GetFileVersionInfo(fname, '\\VarFileInfo\\Translation')
## \VarFileInfo\Translation returns list of available (language, codepage)
pairs that can be used to retreive string info
## any other must be of the form \StringfileInfo\%04X%04X\parm_name, middle
two are language/codepage pair returned from above
for lang, codepage in pairs:
    print 'lang: ', lang, 'codepage:', codepage
    for ver_string in ver_strings:
        str_info=u'\\StringFileInfo\\%04X%04X\\%s' %(lang,codepage,ver_strin
g)
        ## print str_info
        print ver_string, win32api.GetFileVersionInfo(fname, str_info)

------------ setup.py ----------------------------------
# A setup script showing advanced features.
#
# Note that for the NT service to build correctly, you need at least
# win32all build 161, for the COM samples, you need build 163.
# Requires wxPython, and Tim Golden's WMI module.

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
import sys

# If run without args, build executables, in quiet mode.
if len(sys.argv) == 1:
    sys.argv.append("py2exe")
    sys.argv.append("-q")

class Target:
    def __init__(self, **kw):
        self.__dict__.update(kw)
        # for the versioninfo resources
        self.version = "0.5.0"
        self.company_name = "No Company"
        self.copyright = "no copyright"
        self.name = "py2exe sample files"

################################################################
# A program using wxPython

# The manifest will be inserted as resource into test_wx.exe.  This
# gives the controls the Windows XP appearance (if run on XP ;-)
#
# Another option would be to store it in a file named
# test_wx.exe.manifest, and copy it with the data_files option into
# the dist-dir.
#
manifest_template = '''
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>
<assembly xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" manifestVersion="1.0">
<assemblyIdentity
    version="5.0.0.0"
    processorArchitecture="x86"
    name="%(prog)s"
    type="win32"
/>
<description>%(prog)s Program</description>
<dependency>
    <dependentAssembly>
        <assemblyIdentity
            type="win32"
            name="Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls"
            version="6.0.0.0"
            processorArchitecture="X86"
            publicKeyToken="6595b64144ccf1df"
            language="*"
        />
    </dependentAssembly>
</dependency>
</assembly>
'''

RT_MANIFEST = 24

test_wx = Target(
    # used for the versioninfo resource
    description = "A sample GUI app",

    # what to build
    script = "test_wx.py",
    other_resources = [(RT_MANIFEST, 1, manifest_template %
dict(prog="test_wx"))],
##    icon_resources = [(1, "icon.ico")],
    dest_base = "test_wx")

test_wx_console = Target(
    # used for the versioninfo resource
    description = "A sample GUI app with console",

    # what to build
    script = "test_wx.py",
    other_resources = [(RT_MANIFEST, 1, manifest_template %
dict(prog="test_wx"))],
    dest_base = "test_wx_console")

getfilever = Target(
    # used for the versioninfo resource
    description = "test version",

    # what to build
    script = "getfilever.py",
    other_resources = [(RT_MANIFEST, 1, manifest_template %
dict(prog="getfilever"))],
    dest_base = "getfilever")

################################################################
# A program using early bound COM, needs the typelibs option below
test_wmi = Target(
    description = "Early bound COM client example",
    script = "test_wmi.py",
    )

################################################################
# a NT service, modules is required
myservice = Target(
    # used for the versioninfo resource
    description = "A sample Windows NT service",
    # what to build.  For a service, the module name (not the
    # filename) must be specified!
    modules = ["MyService"]
    )

################################################################
# a COM server (exe and dll), modules is required
#
# If you only want a dll or an exe, comment out one of the create_xxx
# lines below.

interp = Target(
    description = "Python Interpreter as COM server module",
    # what to build.  For COM servers, the module name (not the
    # filename) must be specified!
    modules = ["win32com.servers.interp"],
##    create_exe = False,
##    create_dll = False,
    )

################################################################
# COM pulls in a lot of stuff which we don't want or need.

excludes = ["pywin", "pywin.debugger", "pywin.debugger.dbgcon",
            "pywin.dialogs", "pywin.dialogs.list"]

setup(
    options = {"py2exe": {"typelibs":
                          # typelib for WMI
                          [('{565783C6-CB41-11D1-8B02-00600806D9B6}', 0, 1,
2)],
                          # create a compressed zip archive
                          "compressed": 1,
                          "optimize": 2,
                          "packages": ["encodings"],
                          "excludes": excludes}},
    # The lib directory contains everything except the executables and the
python dll.
    # Can include a subdirectory name.
    zipfile = "lib/shared.zip",

    console = [getfilever]
##    service = [myservice],
##    com_server = [interp],
##    console = [test_wx_console, test_wmi],
##    windows = [test_wx],
    )






From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 22:30:00 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:30:00 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <b5on40lvh8ntmuk0tonoikcinardo7gitd@4ax.com>

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:33:38 -0800, "Roger Binns"
<rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:

>Brett wrote:
>> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
>> (untested examples in C++)
>
>What you have is what many other languages allow with integers after break or
>continue statements.  For example you can do 'break 2' or 'continue 3' to
>break or continue out of the respective number of enclosing for loops.

Which languages?

The nearest I've seen is in Ada, where it is possible (but not normal
practice) to name loops. The equivalent of 'break' can then name which
loop it is referring to. IIRC, an example might be...

outer: loop
  inner: loop
    ...
    exit when ...;  --  by default, exit only the inner loop
    exit inner when ...;  --  explicitly exit the inner loop
    exit outer when ...;  --  explicitly exit both the inner and outer
                          --  loops
  end loop;
end loop;

I can't remember ever needing this, but then it's nearly 6 years since
I last used Ada in anger.


'break 2' is not something that I've seen, though it wouldn't surprise
me as a vendor specific extension in C or C++, or maybe as a Perl
thing.

My first impression of it is that it is probably a maintenance
nightmare. If you are using break to exit several nested loops, then
the break statement is likely obscured by other code. It isn't likely
to stand out to maintainers. When a new level of nesting gets added,
or a level of nesting gets taken out, during maintenance the
maintainer could easily miss the need to change the number on the
break statement.

Of course this can be an issue with any break/continue from a loop,
but these statements can been used relatively safely in small loops
where they will be seen. The programmer is responsible for using
language features appropriately and not otherwise. The thing is, I'm
not convinced there can be an appropriate case for breaking several
nested loops that way.

In Ada, at least the loops are explicitly named - adding or removing a
layer of nesting will not change which loop the exit statement
actually exits. Though even then, I don't remember ever seeing it used
for real.

Also, the thought of someone specifying the integer using a variable
or expression is somehow making me think of gothic castles, dark
stormy nights, thunder and lightening, and the distant howling of
wolves. I'm thinking 'I'd much rather be there than debugging a mess
like that' ;-)


>I don't like the rewriting as it greatly complicates the code, and you are
>having to write something different than what you mean in your head.
>Maybe someone wants to take this on as a PEP?

We need a real use case. I can't imagine needing the feature you
describe.

Sometimes, people get into coding habits using what they know just
because it is there and not realising that there are better ways to
handle it. Often, even 'what you mean in your head' gets imagined that
way purely as result of a bad habit. Sometimes you need to make what
amounts to a paradigm shift. I've been there and done that too many
times.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm very suspicious about this right now.

If I am wrong (perhaps it's me that needs to do the paradigm shift
thing after all) then I'd much rather Python went with the Ada route
of naming loops rather than adding gotos or allowing a
number-of-levels parameter for break and continue.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  8 16:04:39 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:04:39 +0100
Subject: py2exe - omitting DLLs (not Python extensions!) from the
 distribution
References: <1xo3yt01.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fzcjnj88.fsf@python.net>

Paul Moore <pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> I have a Python application, which uses cx_Oracle for database access.
> I am wrapping it up into an EXE using py2exe - the result is very
> nice, and easy to distribute. However, the dependency tracking picks
> up OCI.dll as a dependency of cx_Oracle. Now, OCI.dll is actually an
> Oracle-supplied DLL, part of the Oracle client. I definitely *don't*
> want to include this in my built distribution, as it depends on the
> version of the Oracle client installed, and this may differ between
> the build machine and the target machine.
>

There's a dll_excludes option, which you can use in this way:

setup(...
      options = {"py2exe": { "dll_excludes": ["oci.dll"]}})

It would also be possible to add this to a setup.cfg file, but I prefer to
have everything in the setup script only.  That is also the reason that
there are only very few command-line options left.

> I'd rather not have to remember to delete OCI.dll as part of the build
> process.
>
> I've searched the py2exe documentation, but I can't see a way of doing
> this. Can anyone suggest a way?

For now, the documentation for advanced features is supplied by the
users and maintained in the py2exe wiki (hint, hint):

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/Py2Exe

This seems to work pretty nice (and I'd like to thank again any
contributors).

Once you have understood all the features, a short reference is included
in the py2exe docstring, which you can display by entering
help("py2exe") at the python prompt, or hit C-c C-h py-help-at-point in
a python-mode (x)emacs buffer on the 'py2exe' symbol.

Thomas




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar  8 17:46:49 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:46:49 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ESJTAls/KHYb089yn@the-wire.com>
	<nf2vh1-juf.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <donn-0DC2C9.14464908032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <nf2vh1-juf.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>,
 "Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
...
> Just like multiple-inheritance, this may be of no use to you or
> a construct you feel is too dangerous for your code.  That doesn't
> mean it should be prevented from others using it.
> 
> Several pieces of my code would greatly benefit from break/continue
> of multiple depths.  They currently use extra variables and exceptions
> and have had a tendency to be somewhat buggy due to the extra complexity
> and the mismatch between my mental model and what the language allows.

I believe you'd be able to get the same benefit from goto -
nearly identical solution, really.  Of course it can be used
a lot of other ways, but you couldn't really argue that's a
bad thing, given your position stated above.  I mean, either
Python should incorporate all features that someone finds
useful, and leave taste and judgement to the user, or it
shouldn't.  So it seems like goto is the ticket, following
your line of reasoning.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de  Sat Mar 27 03:28:36 2004
From: tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de (Tassilo v. Parseval)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 08:28:36 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Also sprach Fred Ma:

> This is not a troll posting, and I've refrained from
> asking because I've seen similar threads get all
> nitter-nattery.  But I really want to make a decision
> on how best to invest my time.  I'm not interested on
> which language is better in *general*, just for my
> purpose.  My area of research is in CAD algorithms,
> and I'm sensing the need to resort to something more
> expedient than C++, bash scripting, or sed scripting.
> What I hope to do is a bit multifaceted.  What I don't
> do dabble in is web apps (though I'm not sure of the
> similarities).  No XML processing or database
> interaction in what I do.

Who knows, though. The desire to do certain things grows with the skills
one acquired.

> One thing I expect to have to do is to modify design
> files.  For example, there is a tool which takes ASCII
> hardware desscription language (HDL) and converts it
> to a C++ (augmented by hardware simulation library).
> The translator is freeware, so has limitations which I
> have to make up for by tweaking the HDL code.  In the
> past, I've eeked out sed scripts for such tasks, but
> would appreciate a more traditional language.  Since
> Perl is used alot in digital IC design, I took a stab
> at that, motivated by the simple need to convert my
> mail aliases from one mail reader to the other.  It
> took a while to do, and I'm concerned at the difficulty
> level.  If I did this kind of thing constantly, I
> would probably get proficient and use the power behind
> it, but it's not my main area.

That sounds like a text-processing task. Perl's strengths in this area
are well-known, so there's no need to go into that deeper. Most
scripting languages (and that includes Python) can be used here.

> The alternative is Python, which is easier to read
> from what I've read.  My concern there is that I cut
> myself off from large availability of stuff that's
> out there.  For example, I use a PC-to-solaris
> viewer called VNC, and I've banged my head against the
> startup script to change it a bit for my situation.
> Likewise, the above translator uses Perl extensively
> in its operation, as well as it's building and
> installation.  If I wasn't passingly familiar with
> Perl, I would have had a much harder time installing
> it.  Being in the approximate area digit circuits,
> I'm concerned about being on the band wagon, if only
> to avoid reinventing things, or impediments to sharing
> things.

This is a strong reason to use Perl. While it may not always be
desirable to toe the line, here it is. The availability of tools that
can easily be integrated into one's own work will save you a lot of
work on the long run. I didn't know that Perl was particularly strong 
in the field of IC design. If so, good then.

Apart from this particular case, it's generally a good thing when
pre-written code exists that can be used. The amount of such code for
Perl is immense (several thousand libraries) and gathered all in one
place (the CPAN) with a unified interface to access and install them and
a vast infrastructure built around it.

I don't know how much or whether at all the situation for Python has
significantly improved over the recent past. A while ago at least there
was no such thing.

> An additional usage scenario is to (if reasonable)
> replace my shell scripting e.g. I just converted to
> bash from tcsh to write scripts that push a document
> through a series of filters, or simply as a wrapper
> around a tough-to-use utility e.g. pstops.  A final
> example is to take a file of design information and
> do more than tweak it e.g. extract all the information
> about interconnections between circuit building blocks,
> including which is the source block, and which are the
> destination blocks.  Typically, this information will
> be read by matlab scripts and passed to my C++ code
> (I've managed to avoid writing code to parse the
> input file from C++).

As with text processing, both Python and Perl offer all the essential
things needed for that. On a cursory glance, the score of them is tied.

> Whichever way I go, I would like to avoid the overhead
> of learning both Perl and Python.  I will sculpt out some
> time in a miserly fashion to slowly get to know one.  Since
> I spend most of my time exploring the algorithm in Matlab or
> C++/STL, there's only so much time to pick up higher level
> languages (it took years before I shelled out the time
> to switch from tcsh to bash).  One of the things that
> makes the decision not clear is that despite Python's
> claim to a gentler learning curve and clearer code, I
> often like the expedience of sed e.g. a terse one-liner
> that can be pipelined with other shell commands.  I
> also note that Perl's unweldiness only comes for big
> projects, and I don't expect to using Perl quite that
> way.

Perl wins when it comes to one-liners and maybe replacing shell scripts.
As I tend to forget the syntax of bash's scripting language easily, I've
replaced it entirely with Perl.

Perl's bad reputation for big projects is probably due to the variance
of those people using Perl. One large group is sys-admins who use Perl
in an entirely different way as compared to someone building larger
systems. However, there are enough very large Perl projects that show
that it can be used for that just as easily (at least as long as one
keeps the sys-admins away from the source;-).

> I've seen mention of parrot and perl6, which is quite a
> ways off.  I'm not sure how much that should weigh into
> my decision, since it isn't real yet.

It shouldn't. Perl6 is mostly yet another leap towards fitness for large
projects. I don't think it will gain much for those more hackish tasks.
Also, no one quite knows when Perl6 will be due.

Tassilo
-- 
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval


From duncan-news at grisby.org  Mon Mar 29 04:42:45 2004
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:42:45 +0200
Subject: odd behaviour with embedded python and omniorb
References: <6c5f2ab0.0403250846.6e773bb0@posting.google.com>
	<c7ee2$4064176f$51604868$1150@nf2.news-service-com>
	<bfef2a62.0403260740.2168688e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6746b$4067ef95$51604868$13336@nf3.news-service-com>

In article <bfef2a62.0403260740.2168688e at posting.google.com>,
 Paul <pcaffrey at iel.ie> wrote:

>> How does it fail?
>y", line 4, in ?
>    from omniORB import CORBA
>  File "./__init__.py", line 357, in ?
>ImportError: No module named omni_func

That's fixed in CVS. Get the CVS contents or the latest nightly
snapshot and the problem should go away.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Thu Mar  4 03:08:17 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:08:17 +0100 
Subject: I can't use cx_Oracle..help me.
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F00660411A@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Unfortunately, the name of the DLLs is not included in your email, but I
presume it's looking for the oci.dll file. Do you have the Oracle client
tools installed on your system? If not, cx_Oracle will not work as it
requires you to have the Oracle client tools installed.

pieter 

Creo
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of slackgg at 163.com
Sent: 04 March 2004 03:30
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: I can't use cx_Oracle..help me.

hello all:
  i import cx_Oracle modules will show "Traceback (most recent call l
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in
ImportError: DLL load failed: can't find ..."
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 22 07:26:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:26:16 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<mailman.208.1079881198.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405ed061$0$10776$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hb6dna3Jyf70RsPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
>> Such reactions always astonish me, especially given the good guy I know
>> I am! :-) In French (maybe in English too?) we say that we "put white
>> gloves" when we get extremely cautious ...
> 
> The UK English phrase would be to "put on kid gloves" kid gloves being 
> very soft and gentle type of leather (supposedly made from juveniles).

Heh heh... here's the smiley you missed:  :-)

-P


From axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de  Thu Mar 11 13:23:23 2004
From: axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de (Axel Koehler)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:23:23 +0100
Subject: Start and control an extern program
Message-ID: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>

Hallo, 

I want to start an extern program  and simple stop it, after a
given time, if not succesfull finished.  
OS is Linux



Axel 


-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
Axel K"ohler,   axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de      Tel: 030-314 73141



From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Mon Mar 22 02:30:18 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:30:18 +0100
Subject: PyQt database example
Message-ID: <hAw7c.2215$zf6.29943@news4.e.nsc.no>

Can somebody point me to a quick example on how to display the result of
an SQL query in a PyQt QListBox? I've googled in vain for this.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From xholcik1 at fi.muni.cz  Fri Mar 26 08:45:59 2004
From: xholcik1 at fi.muni.cz (Lukas Holcik)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:45:59 GMT
Subject: store tag content with SGMLParser ... ?
Message-ID: <Hv6rKp.LoL@news.muni.cz>

	Hi Python people!

I'd like to ask you a question about parsing html with SGMLParser class 
from module sgmllib. Is there a way I could get contents of a tag with 
certain properties? For example: I'd like to get a list of all contents 
and hrefs of <a> tags, which have certain value of "class" property:

	<a class="section" href="http://example.com">BLABLABLA</a>

I'd like to get stored the "http://example.com" and the "BLABLABLA", 
while class="section". Probably with the use of SGMLParser method 
handle_data. Or better use different approach? Thanks for answers!:)

	#Luk


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Thu Mar 18 16:32:53 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:32:53 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
In-Reply-To: <suuni1-u55.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<c3a966$jqj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<105hf8biugij2d2@news.supernews.com>
	<c3b18o$ao9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<suuni1-u55.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3d4nq$gho$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I do it.  I have some code that talks to pySerial.  On Windows
> it can throw an exception type that is part of win32all and
> hence not present on other platforms.
> 
>    modeignoreerrortypes=[ commport.CommTimeout,
>                           common.CommsDeviceNeedsAttention ]
>    try:
>        import pywintypes
>        modeignoreerrortypes.append(pywintypes.error)
>    except:
>        pass
> 
>    # has to be tuple or it doesn't work
>    modeignoreerrortypes=tuple(modeignoreerrortypes)
> 
> Later on in my code I detect a broken driver (most of the
> time I am actually talking to USB to serial connections).
> When that happens it starts giving dud exceptions which
> I add to the above list (I only want to do it for the
> broken driver, not all cases).


There is nothing wrong with adding tuples.  I would expect that normally 
the number of exceptions is somewhat small, so the overhead of tuple 
addition is not that bad...

    modeignoreerrortypes=(commport.CommTimeout,
                          common.CommsDeviceNeedsAttention)
    try:
        import pywintypes
        modeignoreerrortypes += (pywintypes.error,)
    except:
        pass


  - Josiah


From stewart at midwinter.ca  Mon Mar 29 21:36:08 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 18:36:08 -0800
Subject: Socket Help
References: <mailman.62.1080574302.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0403291836.77573da1@posting.google.com>

Lindstrom Greg - glinds <Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.62.1080574302.20120.python-list at python.org>...


> I'd ask if there is a simple way to verify my socket is still communicating.

how about this, taken from a non-blocking socket class's Connect method:

class NBSocket:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__host = 'localhost'
        self.__port = 177
        self.__myconnection = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM, 0)
        self.__myconnection.setsockopt(0,socket.SO_KEEPALIVE,1)
        self.__connected = 0
        return

    def connect(self, host = 'localhost', port = 177, applicationName = 'NBSocket'):
        """
        ======================================================================c+
        NBSocket.connect(self,host,port,applicationName)
        
        This procedure opens the connection to the socket defined in __init__
        it takes the host name, prot number and application name as aruguments
        host defaults to localhost
        port defaults to 177
        application name defaults to None
        It tries to connect once and if it doesn't get a response after 5
        seconds or if it can't connect right away it raises a socket.error
        exception
        ======================================================================c-
        """
        # Test to see if we are already connected
        if self.__connected:
            print "This socket is already connected"
            return 1
        self.__host = host
        self.__port = int(port)
        self.__applicationName = applicationName
        counter = 0
        try:

            failed = 1
            while failed:
                try:
                    self.__myconnection.recv(1024)
                    self.__connected = 1
                    self.__myconnection.setblocking(1)
                    failed = 0
                    print 'connected'
                except socket.error:
                    print 'unable to connect'
                    counter = counter + 1
                    time.sleep(1)
                    if counter > 5:
                        raise
        except socket.error:
            raise

then continue on with your communication with the server...

cheers,
S


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  8 01:24:43 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:24:43 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <mailman.110.1078718080.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <36gth1-42c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> This has to be the worst idea I've seen in a long time.

Well, it is popular enough to be in shell scripting (digit
form), several forms of Basic (either form), another poster
mentioned ADA, and I have seen it in other languages which
I have forgotten.

Note that your mental model is one of "I want to continue/break
*that* loop".  When *that* is the enclosing loop, break/continue
is easy.  When it is outside the enclosing loop, you then have
to figure out how to transfer control to the appropriate
location using exceptions, state variables and who knows
what else.

> Breaking out of multiple nested loops of various depths is actually very
> simple. Raise an exception, and catch it outside the loop.

That works in the trivial case.  It gets way more complicated
if there are multiple locations you want to do the 'break 2' and
'continue 2' from (and exceptions pretty much only cover the 'break'
case anyway without even more work).

Here is an example of code using break/continue with numbers.  Try it
using exceptions.  Note that this form of code is fairly common
when doing parsing/interpretting of files and building up
data structures (ie same place you tend to see gotos in C)

for l1 in loop1:
   do stuff
   while loop2:
      do other stuff
      for l3 in loop3:
          do more stuff
          if blah blah:
             break 2
          if foo bar:
             continue 3
          do stuff harder
      if orange:
          continue 2
      do stuff hardest

Roger




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar  2 16:03:44 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:03:44 +1100
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE013E6975@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Peter Otten
> 
> Do you have a class with immutable instances handy where the following
> assertion fails?
> 
> assert immutableObj.__class__(immutableObj) is immutableObj

Jeff's already replied with ImmutableSet, but in any case, user-defined immutable classes are very likely to not have this property.

class Point:

    def __init__(self, point):
        self.x, self.y = point.x, point.y

Most user-defined classes do not implement __new__.

Tim Delaney



From peter at semantico.com  Fri Mar 12 09:00:34 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:00:34 +0000
Subject: put your money where your mouse is, or why I prefer Spanish to
 English: a proposal
In-Reply-To: <mailman.295.1079066256.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.295.1079066256.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4051c282$0$14973$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

John Benson wrote:

How about hawian(?), it only uses 11 characters and would by much more 
usable on a PDA as you would need less keys.


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Mon Mar  8 14:31:36 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 19:31:36 GMT
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
References: <mailman.44.1078539398.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<404ba3cb$0$279$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <404cca18$0$277$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On 07 Mar 2004 22:35:55 GMT, F. Petitjean <littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr> wrote:
>> 
>> Please give a hint.  Thank you!
>> 
> the hint :
> import itertools
> help(itertool.takewhile)
> 
> # not tested (no python 2.3 on Debian gateway at home)
> 
> import itertools
< snip a piece of code full of bugs >
> 
> text = """\
> Some words here, and some other words. Then another
> segment follows, and more. This is a question, a junk
> question, followed by a question mark?"""
> 
> for sentence in readsentence(text):
>     print sentence

A lightly tested version :

def readsentence(iterable, ends = (".", "!", "?"), yield_fn=''.join):
    """generator function which yields sentences terminated by ends"""
    end_pred = ends
    if not callable(ends):
        end_pred = lambda c : c in ends
    it = iter(iterable)
    sentence = []
    add = sentence.append
    while True:
        c = it.next()
        if not end_pred(c):
            add(c)
        else:
            # Now add the item terminating the sentence
            add(c)
            t = tuple(sentence)
            if callable(yield_fn):
                t = yield_fn(t)
            yield t
            sentence[:] = []
            # add = sentence.append

    if sentence:
        t = tuple(sentence)
        if callable(yield_fn):
            t = yield_fn(t)
        yield t


Regards


From curzio.basso at unibas.ch  Mon Mar  8 12:48:19 2004
From: curzio.basso at unibas.ch (Curzio Basso)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:48:19 +0100
Subject: [Numeric] why is Float32 incorrect for ufuncs?
In-Reply-To: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
References: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <404cb1e3$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>

Thanks to everyone!

Sorry if I did not answer before but on the we I did not check the 
group. I think I understand now the mechanism, what I did not understand 
was why it was upcasting the 2 to Float64 if the matrix was Float32.

But probably I'll give numarray a try.
thanks again.

curzio


From http  Tue Mar  9 08:11:04 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 05:11:04 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
	file is too slow?)
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.151.1078807449.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xoer6i2s7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

seberino at spawar.navy.mil writes:
> Thanks.  What about sockets??  If we
> hardwire child processes to have a fixed ip address
> and port then I can communicate with a socket right?

If the processes are on the same machine, ip sockets are overkill.

What is the application, if I can ask?  How much speed do you need?

The absolute fastest method will be to use a module like this:

http://gigue.peabody.jhu.edu/~mdboom/omi/source/shm_source/shm.html

But you will have to know what you're doing.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Mar 16 04:09:38 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 10:09:38 +0100
Subject: Any known bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
 deck?
References: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>
	<c35frm$nar$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <wz8yi117l9.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> (JC) wrote:

>> Does anyone know of a bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
>> deck? I'm planning to create a new cardgame which requires this kind of
>> deck (prototyping in Python and possible final development in Delphi;
>> flames about my tool choices will be gently dropped into the bit bucket)
>> I'd be very thankful about any information regarding this matter.

JC> Aside from you using Python to prototype the initial "new cardgame", images
JC> of Spanish playing cards are very off-topic.

JC> Search at google.com for the three terms: spanish playing cards
JC> The second link will be for a site that sells decks of cards for $3.50 +
JC> shipping each.  Scan them.  That is how I would get images of Spanish
JC> playing cards.

And you would have a copyright problem.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From peter.schwalm at epost.de  Wed Mar 24 22:36:03 2004
From: peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 19:36:03 -0800
Subject: Python / COM / Word
References: <mailman.224.1079947879.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5cf809e9.0403241936.5fe98316@posting.google.com>

....
> >>> w1 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
....

"DispatchEx" is a solution I have long searched for. Thank you very
much!

And a question: where do you have the info about DispatchEx from? Does
there exist a documention for win32com? And if yes: where?

Thank you
Peter Schwalm


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Tue Mar  2 03:26:25 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 00:26:25 -0800
Subject: Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>

I just re-read "Why Python?" at
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882
The article is from 2000 and shows how a programmer who programmed in
many programming languages, and who wrote compilers and interpreters,
was introduced to Python and came to like it.

I wondered if there are any more recent interviews/articles from ESR
on his scripting language tools. I would be interested to know if he
still usesPython? Did he try any other "scripting" languages such as
Ruby or Lua?

I'm going to add the article to my bookmarks for ammo in trying to
change my strictly Perl workplace to at least consider Python.

(I should add that I do know of most of the good advocacy resources
available, I've  collected them from answers to other peoples posts,
thanks).

Thanks again,  Paddy.


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Mar  4 11:14:35 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:14:35 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB24_1078416868_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124A28@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Nobody <user_77 at hotmail.com>

Sent:
-996341248,29622787

Subject:
Re: testing - please ignore

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Tue Mar  2 20:40:36 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 12:30:36 +1050
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122> <c234h9$nep$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c23as9$k9n$0@216.39.172.122> <c23d7g$3k1$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc4af23.aq9.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:40:27 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> May as well use an "if False:" construct and gain the benefit of
> visual indentation, regardless of an editor's syntax highlighting
> capability.

As well as losing any possible ambiguity about whether the code will be
executed.  I like it.

-- 
 \         "Truth would quickly cease to become stranger than fiction, |
  `\                  once we got as used to it."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 11:38:53 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 17:38:53 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyfptb22o9u.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Stefan Axelsson <crap1234 at hotmail.com> writes:

> > While the first statement is true on the face of it. The second is
> > also true on the face of it, but probably not what you meant. It's
> > that if the unit tests have been designed to find deviations from
> > the 'expected' behaviour they will. Whether the 'expected' behaviour
> > was actually the 'specified' behaviour is another question entirely.
> > Programmers/designers misunderstanding the specification is all to
> > common an occurrence.

Which is what my "90% of the real problem vs 100% of the wrong
problem" comments, in the post you replied to, were all about.

> No argument there.  However, static type systems' misunderstanding of
> the problem is an even more common occurence ... basically because
> static type systems don't even attempt to understand the problem. They
> interfere with the developer regardless.

And here I omitted to stress something important. Static type systems
reject programs: they forbid you to even try running them. Test suites
merely advise.

Sometimes I want to run a program that I _know_ full well is full of
bugs, dammit!  During the whole of the development process, the
program is full of bugs, by definition ... I still want to be able to
see how it behaves, in order to investigate what to do about
it. Static type systems all too often forbid me to do this. (Even
Hindley Milner type systems.)


From marklists at mceahern.com  Thu Mar 25 15:46:42 2004
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:46:42 -0500
Subject: execute shell command pipeline
In-Reply-To: <8757b529.0403251215.29333930@posting.google.com>
References: <8757b529.0403251215.29333930@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40634532.8050506@mceahern.com>

Paul wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm a Python newbie and I'm wondering how I can do the following Perl thing:
>
>open(F, 'grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 | cut -d: -f1 |') or die "blah, blah";
>$offset = <F>;
>( or $offset = `grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 | cut -d: -f1`; )
>
>in Python.  When I tried:
>
You don't have to do it this verbosely, but it works:

import os
text = '2004'
filename = 'logfile'
delim = ':'
matches = os.popen('grep -b %s %s' % (text, filename)).readlines()
if matches:
    first = matches[0]
    offset = first.split(delim)[0]
    # note: offset is now a string

// m



From kingd  Mon Mar  8 12:13:51 2004
From: kingd (Dale King)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:13:51 -0500
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<smgoljbm.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <404cb2e7@news.tce.com>

"Joe Marshall" <jrm at ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message
news:smgoljbm.fsf at ccs.neu.edu...
> "Dale King" <kingd[at]tmicha[dot]net> writes:
>
> > Feel free to name a language that you think is dead and someone will
tell
> > you someplace that it is still in active use.

> FX

I forgot to qualify this statement like I did another in my post. It only
applies to languages that actually were successful languages. Many languages
have been invented that never actually really "lived" in that they were not
widely known. FX seems to fall in this category. It appears to only be an
MIT research project.

> Focal

Can't testify to its use, but I find information about it on the web.

> Lakota

I can't speak to this one as there is almost no information on the web. Not
sure if it ever was successful.

> REBOL 1.x

And the fact that a language involves from one version to another does not
qualify as the language being dead. REBOL seems to be far from dead:

http://www.rebol.com




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 31 08:14:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:14:44 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.155.1080705831.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4eflk$l9e$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4eg84$lqs$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

A wrong comment being as bad as a wrong error message, change the unrolled
loop to:

if random() < 1.0/1: chosen = "a" # index is 0, item is "a"
if random() < 1.0/2: chosen = "b" # index is 1, item is "b"
if random() < 1.0/3: chosen = "c" # index is 2, item is "c"
if random() < 1.0/4: chosen = "d" # index is 3, item is "d"



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 01:59:48 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:59:48 +0200
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4046D3E4.9040007@zoran.com>

Hello Jonathon,

> Can anyone offer any advice?
I use wxPython here at work and I'm very pleased with it. Native look 
and feel, a lot of widgets ...
There are some nice UI designers as well (Boa, wxGlade ...). The UI in 
my projects is not that complicated to I write all the GUI in VIm, the 
*Sizer are wonderful.

HTH.
Miki



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 14 06:26:55 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:26:55 -0500
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
References: <mailman.3.1079209960.688.python-list@python.org>
	<c3150l$hua$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1058gebqdikgl38@news.supernews.com>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c3150l$hua$02$1 at news.t-online.com...

> I think finding a way for properties to access attributes without wrapping
> them into a function call would be worth the effort. The penalty for clean
> interfaces should be as low as possible.

I suspect you're right. If the only reason for using a property is to
hide a simple getter or setter from the client, and provide for
(possible) future more complex processing, then it shouldn't
be necessary to do a function call at all.

Unfortunately, that would require a significant redefinition
of the descriptor interface. If that's done, then I'd strongly
suggest looking at a couple of other issues at the same time.
>From a performance standpoint, keyword (that is, optional)
parameters require a lot more processing than positional
(that is, non-optional) parameters. I know there's been some
talk of trying to optimize function call processing, and property
access should be able to take advantage of any fast paths
through that morass that are created.

> Peter




From eric at zomething.com  Wed Mar 17 23:21:52 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:21:52 -0800
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
Message-ID: <20040317202152.624502206.eric@zomething.com>

Mouloud wrote:

> > IMO, it will be better to support the Jython project. Because Jython
> > exists, it's very useful and powerful. In fact, I think java community
> > want to have its own "scripting" language because java community is
> > not open-minded enough and will not accept to use something for the
> > outside.


A Pythonista trying to convince a world of Java heads to do it another way?  Your cries for sanity will be lost in the "public static void".

In other news, Bill Gates announced today that next month Linux, also, will be Windows.


Ironically, Jython's name hinders it: folks, this _is_ marketing we're talking about.  These are brand names.

Groovy is a pretty good name, I think.  Python is pretty groovy.  Maybe Groovy will be pretty Java?

Anyone got any "Groovy" code examples?


I suddenly feel like I need a hot cup of coffee and some quiet time - cuddling a reptile?


Eric Pederson
"I love Python, but the current funky green snake may not help with mass acceptance"



From simon  Sat Mar  6 11:05:57 2004
From: simon (simon)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:05:57 GMT
Subject: machine control script ( parameterless method? )
Message-ID: <340a6b1b6f65b385490e5d818b2b6c9e@news.scbiz.com>

I'm thinking of rewriting some vb code in python, its a
machine control
program currently using a simple script to define an action
sequence.

but if i directly use python for the action sequence ( the
most flexible approach.) means each action ( method ) having
brackets, which is a bit redundant and confusing to the
user, since i'm separating the parameters all actions are
calls to parameterless methods,

so the question is, is there any way to call a method when a
name is referenced ( like __repr__ in interactive mode.)

why do i separate the parameters?
well a parameter can be changed often, can occur in several
actions and is unlikely to cause major problems if wrongly
entered, whilst the actions have more serious consequences
if wrongly arranged , so they are differently accessed. This
arrangement seems to me to be quite common, like a washing
machine, dial to select a predefined sequence and then
buttons or dials to tailor it to more refined requirements.


thanks in advance.



From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 16 06:48:49 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:48:49 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <kood509k2g6u98o4behmrhgp7q4b67p7ou@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:43:01 GMT, Carl Banks
<imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:

>What if one of your users does something like 'y = M1.x + 1'; then
>what are you going to do?

The goal is *not* to put the program into the state it "would have
been" had the changes in M1 been done earlier.  That is impossible.
We simply want to have all *direct* references to objects in M1 be
updated.  A direct reference, like 'y = M1.x', sets 'y' to the same
object as 'M1.x'  The 'y' in the above example points to a new object,
with an identity different than anything in the M1 module.  It should
not get updated.  

>It seems to me that your noble effort to make reload() completely
>foolproof is ultimately in vain: there's just too many opportunities
>for a module's variables to affect things far away.

It all depends on your goals for reload().  To me, updating all direct
references is a worthy goal, would add a lot of utility, and is easy
to explain.  Going further than that, updating objects that are "only
one operation away from a direct reference" for example, gets into a
grey area where I see no clear line we can draw.  There might be some
benefit, but the cost in user confusion would be too great.  

Reload() will always be a function that needs to be used cautiously.
Changes in a running program can propagate in strange ways.  "Train
wreck" was the term another poster used.

-- Dave



From npat at efault.net  Tue Mar  9 10:58:01 2004
From: npat at efault.net (Nick Patavalis)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:58:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Package importing question
Message-ID: <slrnc4rqc9.9ju.npat@pink.efault.net>

Assume this package:

  p0/
    __init.py__  <-- empty
    m0.py
    m1.py

  $ cat p0/m0.py
  import sys
  import m1
  def f0(i):
    pass

  $ cat p0/m1.py
  def f0(i):
    pass

Now let's see what happens when importing the package:

  $ python2.3 
  ........
  >>> import p0
  >>> dir(p0)
  ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__']

so far, so good. Now try:

  >>> import p0.m0
  dir(p0.m0)
  ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'f0', 'm1', 'sys']

fine also! But:

  >>> dir(p0)
  ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__',
  'm0', 'm1']

Why on earth does 'm1' show-up there?? And since it does, why doesn't
'sys'??

Thanks in advance
/npat


From sleap at pennswoods.net  Tue Mar  2 10:41:47 2004
From: sleap at pennswoods.net (43fan)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:41:47 -0500
Subject: Extreme Newbie, HELP! :)
Message-ID: <7dqdnck-z6KnNtnd4p2dnA@hereintown.net>

Not only a newbie, but an extreme newbie here, and at this point, really
only have one application that I need to use Python for.  This is in
Paintshop Pro, version 8.

Where I work, we regularly take photos of material as we're progressing
through a job. These photos are named(and stored) according to a specific
naming process.  What happens now is, one person takes the photos and
downloads the images to a folder, usually having to rotate the image 90deg
one way or the other.   Then, another person renames the files and moves
them to the appropriate folder.

Since the name of the file(and actually the folder it's to be located in)
follows a strict set of rules, the person that's doing the dowloading could
save them in the proper place, with the proper name.  However, this could be
one of several people, and I'd like to be able to automate the process.

If there's a way that I can ask the user a series of approx. 4 questions, I
can determine the location the file should be in, and the name it should be,
based on the answers to those questions.  That's basically all I want to do.
:)  Have them open the downloaded file in PSP 8(or an earlier version if it
supports it), run the script which would ask the series of questions, then
save the file in the appropriate folder, with the appropriate name.

Any help????

Thanks!
Shawn
PS - please excuse the nick, I post in a racing ng as well. :)


-- 
Join the newest in Fantasy Sports.

http://www.6FantasySports.com
(this site supports the Victory Junction Gang Camp with a portion of all
proceeds)




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 26 14:34:07 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:34:07 -0800
Subject: PyProtocols question
In-Reply-To: <iiv860ptknuam21n50285chcuvr4i12182@4ax.com>
References: <iiv860ptknuam21n50285chcuvr4i12182@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c420pd$6jp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I'm not sure if this is the best forum to place this question, but
> haven't found a better one, so here goes.
> 
> I have Python 2.3 in my machine (Windows 2000) and downloading
> PyProtocols 0.9.2 the installer complains that python 2.2 isn't found
> in the registry.

If it complains that you don't have Python 2.2, then you should have 
installed 2.2 instead of 2.3.  Python 2.3 is not Python 2.2.


> I've also tried to download the source and follow the instructions,
> but since there's no compiler the setup complains. Since I cannot find
> the latest 0.9.3 version I can't use the --without-speedups to bypass
> the compilation phase...

You say you have cygwin.  You can get a version of GCC for cygwin.


> I also have cygwin and could try the rpm's, but I have (yet) very
> little experience on it, so I don't wanna go that route.

Cygwin has RPM support?  Cool.  If Pyprotocols as a src RPM and Cygwin 
has RPM support, get the source distribution and try to go from there.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 06:10:18 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:10:18 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<tyfad296vjl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <e5ht50lrca4q3bg2g8rjssdgjqu8omf9em@4ax.com>

On 22 Mar 2004 11:11:26 +0100, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>My only slight reservation is the increased "keyword overloading". For
>example ... "static" has something like 7 distinct meanings in C++ (at
>last count), and I find that this has a detremental effect on
>discussions with colleagues. I hope that Python will be able to avoid
>such problems.

Which is worse? Keyword overloading, or wierd pattern-of-symbols
overloading?

Personally, I'd hate to see nouns or verbs 'overloaded'. But why
shouldn't prepositions be used in a wide variety of contexts in
Python? They are in spoken languages, after all.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From noah at noah.org  Mon Mar 22 03:24:50 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 00:24:50 -0800
Subject: Need recommendations for installer setup tool
References: <c9d82136.0403191957.7385feba@posting.google.com>
	<NmY6c.37375$PY.8898@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403220024.5a7fa66@posting.google.com>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<NmY6c.37375$PY.8898 at newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>...
> Noah <noah at noah.org> wrote:
> > I would like something that could put a GUI on this process.
> > Not that this would make it any easier to use, but it would make it
> > easier to market :-P Ideally the installer would allow for both GUI and 
> > text based interfaces.
> >
> > Are there any Python based products that would help me build these installers?
> > I'm trying to move away from the bash scripts and go with 100% pure Python.
> 
> Have you looked at SCons? Between SCons and anygui, you might be able to
> put together a good solution pretty easily.

SCons looks great! At first glance it seem to be exactly what I was looking for.

I thought that AnyGUI was a dead project. No?

Yours,
Noah


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 16 15:29:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:29:20 -0500
Subject: Is Python type safe?
In-Reply-To: <roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <QuJ5c.3008$G3.27398@localhost>

Roy Smith wrote:

> Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string 
> "four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it.  Oddly enough, Java 
> (in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at automagic 
> polymorphism) will let you add them.  No clue what C# does.

It's been a while since I Java-ed, but doesn't it "append" them, as in 
convert the integer to a string and then join the two strings, rather 
than "add" them (which I take to mean "calculate the sum of")?

(That's probably what you meant, but I'm just checking.  I'd be 
surprised to find that Java actually performed the string-to-value 
conversion implicitly.)

-Peter


From kbk at shore.net  Mon Mar  1 12:23:23 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:23:23 GMT
Subject: comp.lang.python
References: <mailman.214.1077911572.8594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87smgs4h2s.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

Marcello Pietrobon <teiffel at attglobal.net> writes:

> Is the server comp.lang.python working or not ?
>
> If yes,
> what settings do I need in order to see this mailing list in newsgroup
> form ?

You would need to install newsreader software, and point it at your
ISP's news server.  Most decent browsers have this capability these days.

Or you could use Google Groups:
http://www.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&lr=&hl=en

-- 
KBK


From jforgion at vt.edu  Tue Mar 30 16:25:27 2004
From: jforgion at vt.edu (Joshua Forgione)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:25:27 -0500
Subject: struct.pack Format String Question
Message-ID: <4069E5C6.BC5274E6@vt.edu>

Hello.  I am reverse engineering some Python Code.  I am using the book
"The Quick Python Book" as an aide.

The following line exists in the code:

msg = struct.pack('BBBB',word0, word1, word2, word3, word4)

In this struct.pack command, the format string is 'BBBB.'  In the book,
it gives the following examples for characters that are meaningful to
struct:

'h' - short integer
'd' - double-precision floating point
's' - string

In this case, 'B' is used.  What does 'B' represent?  What other
characters can be used?  Does a list of this exist somewhere?

Thank you for your help.

Josh



From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Sat Mar  6 23:16:03 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:16:03 +1300
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13054AFFEC@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2B00@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and 
> write only those between the tags to a text file.  In other 
> words, if I have an XML document like so:
> 
> <tag1>This</tag1>
>     <tag2>is</tag2>
>        <tag3>a</tag3>
> <tag1>test</tag1>
> 
> I need to write "This is a test" to a text file.  How do I achieve
> this?

Apart from the XML parsing solutions that have already been posted, if you
really don't care about the tags, then you don't actually need to parse the
XML.  Just dump anything between < and > (assumes that the XML is valid, and
so doesn't have < or > except for as a tag).

For example (this is pretty basic):

>>> import re
>>> s =
"<tag1>This</tag1>\n<tag2>is</tag2>\n<tag3>a</tag3>\n<tag1>test</tag1>"
>>> re.sub(r"<.*?>", "", s)
'This\nis\na\ntest'

You'd still have to deal with entities, but IIRC, you'll have to with most
parsers, too.  It's certainly simpler.

=Tony Meyer




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 22 18:25:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:25:09 -0500
Subject: static information...
References: <mailman.253.1079991337.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105utgt2ql2e0e1@news.supernews.com>

<niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu> wrote in message
news:mailman.253.1079991337.742.python-list at python.org...
> I've been looking for a way of have static variables in a python class and
all I
> have found is this:
>
>  class A:
>             static =[]
>
>             def f(self):
>                         A.static = [1,2,3]
>
>
> That seems to be pretty static since that variable can be used either on
the
> class (such as A.static) or on an instance (such as A().static).
> Now my problem is that every time some create a new instance of this class
the
> variable static is reset to its original value [] and the real value that
it
> took is lost. What I want is someplace to store class's information and
not
> instance's information.
> Any idea?

It doesn't exist. The class level variable is a default for
an instance level variable. If you want a class level
variable, there are two ways of going about it.

One is to declare a getter and setter and make them
class methods; the other is the one you have discovered,
and that Larry Bates references.

for example:

class Foo(object):
    var = "bar"

    def setVar(klas, value):
        klas.var = value
    setVar = classmethod(setVar)

    def getVar(klas):
        return klas.var
    getVar = classmethod(getVar)

    def bar(self):
        self.setVar([1,2,3])

-------------------------------

Note that classmethod requires a new style
class, which is why the subclass from object.

HTH

John Roth
>
>




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Mar 12 11:38:28 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 17:38:28 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<tyfbrn25ilm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyfy8q63trv.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:
> 
> > Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> > > How do I force static typing in Python?
> > 
> > You have to enforce it by code instead of declaration, i.e. you
> > have to do runtime type checking.
> 
> Just what do you understand "static typing" to mean ?

I ask because I am prepared to accept that you have a different
working definition of "static typing" from mine, but people who
actually want static typing typically want it because they think it
gives them the following advantages:

a) type errors caught at compile time,

b) faster program exectution.

The code you showed:

> > class doesTypeChecking:
> >      def __init__(self):
> >          self.__dict__["aString"] = ""
> >          self.__dict__["aFloat"] = 0.0
> > 
> >      def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
> >          if type(self.__dict__[attr]) != type(value):
> >              raise ValueError, "Type mismatch for attribute %s\n" % attr

will catch no type errors at compile time, and will slow down
execution, so I suspect that Premshree will be disapponinted with it.


(BTW, my definition of "static typing" is "type checking is done at
compile time" ... your example really looks like dynamic typing to
me ... albeit with some restrictions on attribute types.)


Premshree: Python is dynamically typed. There is no way to enforce
           static typing. There is something called "pychecker" which
           might be of some help to you. Why do you think that you
           want static typing in Python ?


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Mar 28 15:03:39 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:03:39 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40672F9B.1040505@prescod.net>

I'm totally confused. There was a statement of fact about how compilers 
work which I refuted. Now it's shifting to a question of programming style.

Let's recap:

John Roth wrote:

> "Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>John Roth wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
>>>exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
>>>not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
>>>open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.
>>

I responded:

>>Ummm. This is also true for Python. Python classes exist at runtime.

Given

class A:
	pass

a = A()

Both "a" and "A" are put in the "resulting program" (bytecodes) just as 
they would in a prototype-based language. A() is a completely 
first-class object, just like a prototype in a prototype-based language.

  Paul Prescod





From http  Fri Mar 12 05:01:02 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 02:01:02 -0800
Subject: How to add pairs to a dict, typo corrected in this one.
References: <mailman.304.1079081423.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x1xny9yg1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Avik Ghose <avikghose at yahoo.co.in> writes:
> if 'tom' in phone_book.keys():
>     #duplicate entry;

Don't do it that way!  That builds up a whole list from scratch containing
all the keys, and then searches the list for 'tom'!!!  There was just
a thread about this :).

Instead, use: 

   if 'tom' in phone_book: ...

or

   if phone_book.has_key('tom'): ...


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  2 15:10:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:10:48 +0100
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>
	<4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c22po8$ljv$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Alex wrote:

> Thank you very much for the reply!
> 
> In fact I created a list in a variable and I have to create x numbers of
> butons, depending on how many values there's in the list.
> 
> so in my code:
> for x in range(nbSujets):
>   self.button1 = xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30, "B"+str(x) )
>   self.addControl(self.button1)
> 

You have several options:

(1)
for x in range(nbSujets):
    button = xbmcgui.ControlButton(...)
    self.addControl(button)

I don't know that particular gui, but access to the button should be
possible by something like self.getControl(buttonname) or
self.controls[buttonindex] - just look it up in the docs.

(2)
self.buttons = []
for x in range(nbSujets):
    button = xbmcgui.ControlButton(...)
    self.addControl(button)
    self.buttons.append(button)

Refer to the button later as self.buttons[buttonindex]

(3)
for x in range(nbSujets):
    button = xbmcgui.ControlButton(...)
    self.addControl(button)
    setattr(self, "button" + str(x), button)

Refer to the button later as self.button0, self.button1, ...


> But in fact I need self.buttonX as I need different actions on each
> button. And the dictionnary here doesn't help I think...

Perhaps you can find a way to connect buttons and actions directly in the
for loop and need not refer to them later at all?

(4)
for x, action in enumerate([self.killMonster, self.saveTheWorld]):
   button = xbmcgui.ControlButton(...)
   button.onClick = action # speculating again here
   self.addControl(button)

killMonster() and saveTheWorld() are the methods that shall be triggered
when the associated button is pressed.

Incidentally, the last one is my personal favourite.
        
Peter



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Mar 23 13:44:02 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 10:44:02 -0800
Subject: PEP318 yet an alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
	<mailman.277.1080045041.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403231044.2f3d139d@posting.google.com>

Marco Aschwanden <PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.277.1080045041.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Python has the concept that names with a preceding underscores (__) will 
> be mangled in some way. I suppose the "compiler"/interpreter does this 
> name-mangling. Why not use the same concept:
> 
> def __static__theRealFunctionName(self, var1, var2):
>      pass
> 
> The compiler will do some name mangling. The function is called without 
> the __static__ part:
> 
> --> theRealFunctionName(3,4)
> 
> 
> The advantages:
> 
> - Old code won't break (except if someone has functions starting with 
> __static__).
> - It is an already used concept for "private" variables --> they might be 
> migrated to __private__
> - well they even might be joined: 
> __static____privat__theRealFunctionName(...)
> - don't use it if you don't need it (this probably defaults to a 
> __public__)
> - The definition tells us what kind of method (class?) this is
> 
> The disadavantage:
> - long names
> 
> Stupid idea? I guess so, but I am too stupid to see why?
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Marco


Three reasons:

1. it is ugly;

2. you don't need to change the core language for that. Implementing
   this idea in Python 2.2+ is just an exercise in metaclasses. It
   does not deserve a PEP.

3. How do you pass parameters to the decorator?


        Michele Simionato


From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Mar 14 23:09:45 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 20:09:45 -0800
Subject: Does python's minidom support Chinese?
References: <mailman.250.1078955721.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0403142009.33a1a16f@posting.google.com>

Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.250.1078955721.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> The following 4 lines of code parses an XML document
> very well if the XML document contains only English
> words.
> 
> But when I insert one Chinese character into the XML
> document, then Python starts to complain when it hits
> the Chinese character, saying that it is an invalid
> token and thus it is not well-formed.
> 
> This is the complaint of Python:
> 
> ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 3,
> column 7
> 
> line 3 and column 7 exactly pinpoints the 1st Chinese
> character in the XML document.

This is an XML problem on your end, not a minidom problem.  That error
probably means that you are either omitting the XML declaration (and
thus defaulting to UTF-8 or UTF-16) or declaring a bogus encoding.


> The problem remains even if I try encoding="UTF-16" or
> encoding="GB2312" or encoding="GBK" in the xml
> document.

Well, you can't just go shopping about for oare it accordingly.

Back to minidom: even after you fix your XML problems you may still
have trouble with minidom because the expat reader has to understand
the encoding you're using.  I think that it may use the Python codecs
model to find the encoding you declared, so you may just need to
install a Python Chinese codecs package, and you'll be all set.  I'm
not entirely sure this si the case, though.


--Uche
http://uche.ogbuji.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  6 20:06:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:06:54 -0500
Subject: Question please
In-Reply-To: <mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <LCu2c.2305$G3.18602@localhost>

Abe and Barb K. wrote:
> I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2 with 
> win32 extensions software.
>  
> I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if I can just remove 
> this software without affecting anything in my system as it is taking up 
> space if I'm not going to use it?

It's probably part of some system maintenance utilities that HP 
includes, and you're best off leaving it alone.  There's a note in the 
Python FAQ at www.python.org that mentions this sort of thing in case 
you're interested.

Besides, as this is a new computer, it's very likely that the disk space 
being taken up by Python is a small fraction of one percent of the 
total, and you're really not gaining anything significant by doing this. 
  It ain't broke, so don't "fix" it.

-Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Mar 12 07:58:09 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 14:58:09 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>
	<405185f5$0$16368$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<du77jxqbd8f.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<4051936c$0$2136$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <du7ekryjk7y.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

    Peter> If all you want her to be is a Python zealot then go ahead,
    Peter> but you would be doing her a greater service by allowing
    Peter> her to become a good programmer.

It's just that I don't think Python and Ruby are different enough as
languages to really provide much perspective from pedagogical
viewpoint.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 17 02:01:02 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:01:02 +0100
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <mailman.69.1079497817.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.69.1079497817.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c38t3f$8pj$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:
> OK, gotcha. By the way, do you know how to set the
> default language of Mandrake or any linux system, so
> that I can probably mimic.

You need to set the LANG environment variable. This
is best done on a per-user basis, e.g. in the .login
file of the user. Setting LANG to zh_CN should give
you a (simplified) Chinese environment. Python 2.3
will automatically pick up that setting when printing
Unicode strings.

Regards,
Martin



From srovner at us.ibm.com  Thu Mar  4 20:49:47 2004
From: srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 17:49:47 -0800
Subject: tkFileDialog.askopenfilename
References: <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773@posting.google.com>
	<c28115$pqp$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8a5a6d82.0403041749.245f350d@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<c28115$pqp$07$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Sonia Rovner wrote:
> 
> > tkFileDialog.askopenfilename only allows you to open an existing file.
> >  I want to allow my users to enter a new filename in the dialog box.
> > Can anyone help?
> 
> Seems you are out of luck:
> 
> "The procedures tk_getOpenFile and tk_getSaveFile pop up a dialog box for
> the user to select a file to open or save. The tk_getOpenFile command is
> usually associated with the Open command in the File menu. Its purpose is
> for the user to select an existing file only. If the user enters an
> non-existent file, the dialog box gives the user an error prompt and
> requires the user to give an alternative selection. If an application
> allows the user to create new files, it should do so by providing a
> separate New menu command. "
> 
> Quoted from http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/getOpenFile.htm
> 
> Peter

Thank you very much.

Sonia


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Thu Mar 11 21:29:09 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:29:09 GMT
Subject: Create static method dynamically
In-Reply-To: <c2qnop$ung$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>
References: <c2qnop$ung$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Vf94c.120$pa6.95629@monger.newsread.com>

Salvatore wrote:
> class myClass:
>     def addmethod(name,method):
>         maClasse.__dict__[name] = method
>     addmethod = staticmethod(addmethod)
> 
> def hello():
>     print "hello"
> 
> myClasse.addmethod('hello',hello)
<snip>
> I would like to make this call:
> myClass.hello()

Change line 3 to:
         myClass.__dict__[name] = staticmethod(method)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  9 09:29:25 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:29:25 -0600
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <003c01c405a9$b4483720$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
References: <mailman.120.1078757424.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<20040309035213.GB18682@unpythonic.net>
	<003c01c405a9$b4483720$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
Message-ID: <20040309142924.GI12662@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 11:39:50PM -0800, Roger Binns wrote:
> Jeff Epler wrote:
> > [Mr. Binns helpfully deleted the attribution, so I didn't even realize
> > right away he was replying to my post]
> 
> I was posting in the newsgroup where everything is well threaded.
> Apologies if you feel slighted.

Maybe I'm out of step, but I thought it was standard practice on Usenet
to name the person whose text is quoted.  The program I'm using displays
threads properly, but already-read messages are not shown in the index,
meaning that I don't always see the message being replied to.

> I think some of that could be alleviated through the use of 'else'
> with 'for/while' although it looks like I need the opposite of its
> semantics (a 'not else').  Quite frankly the existence of 'else' 
> in this context as a language feature baffles me and I don't use it.

The same goes for me.  I can never remember when the "else" clause will
execute, and for that reason I'm very unlikely to use it.

> 
> > I have seen one call
> > for [g(x) for x in l while f(x)].  
> 
> I didn't even know you could do that (the while).

I wasn't clear.  You *can't* use "while" in listcomps, and I've only seen
it requested once.

Jeff



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Mar  4 05:12:13 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:12:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Python for Beginners
In-Reply-To: <c25h8a$j86$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20040304101213.81691.qmail@web8302.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote: >
>
>
http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python-seminar-210204/slides/pySlide1.jpg.htm
> 
> I notice that you took our advice on the errors with
> your original 
> presentation, but still doesn't distinguish between
> mutable sequences 
> (lists), immutable sequences(strings, tuples), and
> the fact that they 
> are really able to do the same things.
> 
> The Python Tutorial is a much better introduction to
> the language.
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html
> 
>   - Josiah
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Maybe the slides on their own weren't enough for a
good "introduction". These were slides that I prepared
for an introductory seminar on the language at
college.

-Premshree

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From bogus at bogus.net  Tue Mar  9 04:16:59 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:16:59 GMT
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fYf3c.61565$lS1.58299@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Oliver Kurz" <olku at web.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> could someone give me a solution how to convert a string to a list without
using eval or exec?
>
> The string looks like:
>
>
'[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc"
,"abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'
>
> and should be converted to a list:
>
> [['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'], 'abc'], ['abc', 'abc', ['abc', 'abc'],
['abc', ['abc', 'abc']], 'abc'], 'abc']
>
> I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.
>
> -- 
> --
> Oliver Kurz
>
>
# get pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net

from pyparsing import quotedString, Forward, Literal,delimitedList,Group
quotedString.setParseAction(lambda s,l,t: t[0].strip("'\""))

testdata =
'[["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],"abc"],["abc","abc",["abc","abc"],["abc",["abc"
,"abc"]],"abc"],"abc"]'

lbrack = Literal("[").suppress()
rbrack = Literal("]").suppress()
listDef = Forward()

# add more things to listItem, such as integers, etc. if your list has other
than quoted strings
listItem = quotedString | listDef

listDef << lbrack + Group( delimitedList(listItem) ) + rbrack

print listDef.parseString(testdata)[0].asList()




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 01:53:54 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:53:54 -0800
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2jpre$hlu$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> 1) Freeware (desired)
> 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)  
> 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions 
>    data elements in the file. (required)

Idle; 1-4 are easy.  For 5, check the "class browser" functionality, and 
is included with Python.

As already mentioned, DrPython has them all 
(http://drpython.sourceforge.net), requires wxPython.

If you would like an attached "class browser", and don't mind having 
tabbed editing functionality, PyPE may suit you 
(http://pype.sourceforge.net), also requires wxPython.

If you would prefer MDI (rather than tabs), don't mind the "class 
browser" being slow, SPE may suit you (http://spe.pycs.net), also 
requires wxPython.


On the other hand, Eric3 looks to be pretty sweet: 
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html (requires PyQT and 
QScintilla).  I'd probably be using it, if I could get it working in 
Windows.

  - Josiah


From moranar at daleclick.com  Sat Mar 20 17:36:54 2004
From: moranar at daleclick.com (Adriano Varoli Piazza)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:36:54 -0300
Subject: problem with a css cycler
In-Reply-To: <200403201929.12518.moranar@daleclick.com>
References: <200403201929.12518.moranar@daleclick.com>
Message-ID: <200403201936.54845.moranar@daleclick.com>

El S?b 20 Mar 2004 19:29, Adriano Varoli Piazza escribi?:
...
> today = int(raw_input("today's date: "))
...
Of course, this variable would be obtained by using a date function, not 
by using raw_input(). I did it this way to be able to test easily.

-- 
Adriano Varoli Piazza
The Inside Out: http://moranar.com.ar
ICQ: 4410132
MSN: adrianomd at hotmail.com
Claves gpg / pgp en hkp://subkeys.pgp.net



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Mar 26 15:38:43 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:38:43 -0800
Subject: [SPAM-Bayes] - Re: Converting IBM Floats..Help.. -
 BayesianFilter detected spam
In-Reply-To: <mailman.420.1080244325.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFE@pippin.int.etrials.com>
	<mailman.420.1080244325.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40649c5e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Here's one page I found with an explanation of how more standard
> floating-point numbers are stored:
>     http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/Floating_Point_Numbers.html
> The most important difference between the IEEE formats and the IBM
> format is that the radix is 16 instead of 2.  I think there's also a
> terminlogy error--the page says that the significand (mantissa) is
> stored in "two's compliment binary", but this isn't true.  It's
> unsigned.  The sign is stored separately.
Actually, a common trick is to use "two's complement binary" on the 
entire word, not simply the mantissa.  Then the same hardware can be
used to negate integer and floating values.  The way you take apart
negative numbers is (1) record the sign, and (2) take the absolute value 
of the whole thing (3) breaking exponent and mantissa out.

You might find my weird little bits module helpful to take your floating
point values in python apart in order to send them around.

     http://members.dsl-only.net/~daniels/bits.html

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From PIVOTSINET-MESS-SA at grenoble.sema.slb.com  Tue Mar 16 05:17:49 2004
From: PIVOTSINET-MESS-SA at grenoble.sema.slb.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Surveillance_du_syst=E8me?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:17:49 +0100
Subject: [MailServer Notification] To External Sender: a virus was found a	nd
 action taken.
Message-ID: <0D6751E6159DD711BA6F00D0B7C9E6A101FC941D@pivotsinet.croissy.eur.slb.com>

ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange took action on the message.  The message
details were: 
Sender = python-list at python.org
Recipient(s) = emeunier at mtr.sema.slb.com;
Subject = Re: My details
Scanning time = 03/16/2004 11:17:38
Engine/Pattern = 6.860-1001/1.822.00

Action taken on message:
The attachment my_details.pif contained WORM_NETSKY.D virus. ScanMail took
the action: Deleted. 
Alerte virale. Scanmail a d?tect? un virus.
03/16/2004
emeunier at mtr.sema.slb.com;
Re: My details



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Mar 30 17:11:17 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:11:17 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <hgK9c.5950$I61.5445@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c47qli$2e3dp5$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<hgK9c.5950$I61.5445@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4069ea7d$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Carl Banks wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> 
(snip)

>>This space-vs-tab war is just insane.  I wish Prothon/Python would use
>>block terminator, if only to kill this silly trollings.
>  
> 
> Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
> next line" wars.
> 

lol !



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 00:11:08 2004
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 21:11:08 -0800
Subject: Stop code in python!!
References: <4055bb8c$0$794$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
	<ahsb50lbsk60d3md0s99a4r1cjoscgvi9s@4ax.com>
	<1079390825.37545.1@demeter.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0403152111.2c6f96eb@posting.google.com>

Garry Knight <garryknight at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<1079390825.37545.1 at demeter.uk.clara.net>...
> In message <ahsb50lbsk60d3md0s99a4r1cjoscgvi9s at 4ax.com>, Alan Gauld wrote:
> 
> > raw_input("Hit Enter to quit...")
> 
> And remember that you can do raw_input() without any message.

 ...and sleep() as well.


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 17 16:51:15 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 13:51:15 -0800
Subject: logging messages in imported modules not showing up
References: <8de75d53.0403091141.e488ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0403171351.47425e90@posting.google.com>

erick_bodine at comcast.net (Erick Bodine) wrote in message news:<8de75d53.0403091141.e488ec at posting.google.com>...
> I have a script that sets up logging at startup, imports a module
> (module1) which itself imports another module (module2).
> 
> The problem is that if I run script.py, I see the following.  I never
> see the 'MyClass2 initialized' log message from module2??
> 
> 2004-03-09 12:15:18,348 DEBUG [script:15] logging enabled
> 2004-03-09 12:15:18,348 DEBUG [module1:12] MyClass initialized
> 2004-03-09 12:15:18,348 DEBUG [module2:14] MyClass2 do_something
> 
> --------------
> script.py
> -------------
> import logging, module1
> 
> def main():
>     # setup logging
>     log = logging.getLogger('myapp')
>     handler = logging.StreamHandler()
>     log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
>     format = logging.Formatter("%(asctime)s %(levelname)-3s " \
>                                 "[%(module)s:%(lineno)d] %(message)s")
>     handler.setFormatter(format)
>     log.addHandler(handler)
>     
>     log.debug("logging enabled")
> 
>     my = module1.MyClass()
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main()
> 
> --------------
> module1.py
> --------------
> import logging, module2
> log = logging.getLogger('myapp')
> 
> class MyClass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         log.debug("MyClass initialized")
>     
>     def something(self):
>         my = module2.MyClass2()
>         my.do_something()
> 
> -------------
> module2.py
> -------------
> import logging
> log = logging.getLogger('myapp')
> class MyClass2:
>     def __init__(self):
>         log.debug("MyClass2 initialized")
> 
>     def do_something(self):
>         log.debug("In MyClass2 do_something")

Perhaps your script is not working as you expect because you forgot to
call my.something() from main(). Hence a MyClass2 instance was never
instantiated and do_something() was never called on it.


Vinay Sajip


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 29 10:25:28 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>


"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:406829FF.5060304 at mlug.missouri.edu...
>
> >
> What difference does it make what the standard length of a tab is as
> long as it remains the same throughout the program? As long as the size
> is uniform it should render just fine.

I think you misunderstood. There is no "standard" length of
a tab. A tab is supposed to insert (or otherwise render the
equivalent of inserting) enough spaces to go to the next "tab stop",
which by convention is a multiple of 8 columns on a fixed
width mechanical typewriter. This is where tabs originated.

> >There is, of course, no standard at all for how to change
> >the default tabbing in programs, which means that one
> >has to deal with each and every one on an individual
> >basis - if it's even possible.
> >
> >
> Again, as long as it's uniform does it matter? It won't change the logic
> of the code as long as it opens a tab as a tab and saves a tab as a tab.
> If you can't trust your editor to do something that basic then trash it.

It matters. 8 columns is much too wide for indents in readable code.
People do differ on that, but that seems to be the concensus.

John Roth




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 17:48:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:48:01 +0100
Subject: Optparse: Detecting if option or option-arg is specified or not
References: <b19beb92.0403111410.4202c2b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2qqb1$87d$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Sam Smith wrote:

> I am using optparse for the commandline parsing for my programs.  I
> was wondering if it is possible to detect if an option or option-arg
> has been specified on the commandline by the user or not. Please do
> not suggest default value solutions.

What's wrong with default values?
Anyway, here's the hasattr() approach:

>>> p = optparse.OptionParser()
>>> p.add_option("-x", action="store_true")
<optparse.Option instance at 0x403a1fcc>
>>> class NS: pass
...
>>> values = NS()
>>> p.parse_args([], values)
(<__main__.NS instance at 0x402c3f6c>, [])
>>> hasattr(values, "x")
False
>>> p.parse_args(["-x"], values)
(<__main__.NS instance at 0x402c3f6c>, [])
>>> hasattr(values, "x")
True
>>>

Peter


From csgcsg39 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 09:35:27 2004
From: csgcsg39 at hotmail.com (C GIllespie)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:35:27 -0000
Subject: Calling C programs
References: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk> <4047258C.9080808@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <c27eqc$jij$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>



> from os import popen

> print popen("/tmp/hello").read()

What about if I want to pass an argument?

I've tried

input,output=popen2('/tmp/hello')

input.write("Some string")

input.close() # I get an error here.

Thanks

Colin




From mark at prothon.org  Sat Mar 27 21:47:04 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:47:04 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>

> although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use Prothon.

Can you please point me to those reasons?

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:106ceeeqc8ph126 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
> news:406635AB.9050803 at mlug.missouri.edu...
> > I'm not terribly familiar with the concept of prototypes although I
> > believe I understand the basic meaning and I have worked in languages
> > which do use prototypes (although not called that).
> >
> > Aren't there many times when it is usefult to work with classes where
> > you do not want an instance to exist? Such as multiple level of
> > subclasses where code is kept easily readable by putting it on a the
> > appropiate class for that function alone. Often useful when you'll be
> > using many similar but not identical objects? I can see how it'd be
> > useful to be able to define new methods on an object, or edit the
> > methods on an object but I can not see the purpose to removing classes
> > altogether. Am I correct in my impression that with prototyping you must
> > instantate an object to define it's structure? That would seem wasteful
> > and cluttering of the namespace. Also he way your prototypes read appear
> > less clear to me than a class definition. I fear that you'd wind up with
> > people creating an object.. coding random stuff.. adding a method to
> > that  object.. coding more random stuff.. and then adding more to the
> > object.
>
> It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
> exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
> not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
> open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.
>
> On the other hand, there are application areas where that is
> exactly what you need: I've already mentioned interactive fiction,
> and there are undoubtedly others.
>
> I'd like to play around with a prototype based language to see how it
> works, although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use
> Prothon. I'd be using IO if they had a windows executable installer,
> rather than requiring me to compile the silly thing.
>
> John Roth
>
>




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar  3 17:28:17 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:28:17 +1100
Subject: XML-RPC server framework
In-Reply-To: <20040303155616.GA28132@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie>
References: <20040303155616.GA28132@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie>
Message-ID: <20040303222817.GA23030@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 03:56:16PM +0000, Cillian Sharkey wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to find any existing frameworks for writing an XML-RPC server
> that has the following features:
> 
> - HTTPS
> - connection oriented (HTTP/1.1 persistent connections)
> - multiple concurrent connections
> - hooks for custom handling of HTTP basic authentication
> - dynamic documentation on GET requests a la DocXMLRPCServer
> 
> I'm aware of xmlrpclib, M2Crypto, py-xmlrpc, Twisted but haven't found
> an existing implementation that does all of the above. I'd prefer not to
> have to write it myself :-)

Which of these does Twisted lack?

> Any tips appreciated (please CC me on replies).

Done.

-Andrew.





From kmmcdonald at wisc.edu  Sun Mar 14 15:03:29 2004
From: kmmcdonald at wisc.edu (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:03:29 GMT
Subject: Question on making names visible in packages
Message-ID: <slrnc59er9.3hp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>

This will have an easy answer, no doubt, unfortunately I can't
think of it...

I'm writing a package which will have a number of classes. I'd
like to split them amongst different files within the package.
However, I'd also like the package user to be able to say:

	import Package

and then to use the classes as 

	Package.Class1, Package.Class2, etc.

However, I'm only able to get this behavior when I leave the
class definitions in the __init__.py file. When in other files,
they of course have to be referenced as :

	Package.filename.Class1

Is there some way of making the names visible at the top level
of the module, to mask the fact that they are split amongst
different files within the package? The split reflects a
logical organization of the code from the point of view of
the designer of the package, but not from the user, and
so I don't want the user to necessarily be aware of the
file organization. (If they want to be, hey, that's fine...)


Thanks,
Ken McDonald


From jacek at lxplus057.cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 15:30:33 2004
From: jacek at lxplus057.cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 21:30:33 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> > Ludovic Aubry <no_ludal_spam at logilab.com> writes:
> ...
> >> > Try as you will, Python would not allow you to do any of these things,
> >> > because it is _strongly typed_ with respect to these operations on these
> >> > types.
> >> Python will allow you to multiply string with integers for example ;)
> 
> > Yes, and in that respect it is weakly typed.
> 
> Here I disagree.  Python has a rule for multiplying a string and an
> integer--this isn't an exmaple of weak typing.  No re-interpretation
> of data representation is being done.

I don't disagree with you :-)

As I keep saying, weak typing is a wishy-washy concept, and your
working definition has a lot of merit. Could you cite anything that
uses your definition? (I'm not asking for these to argue with you, but
to have something to cite in situations when I might want to back up
your working definition.)


From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Mon Mar 22 15:24:44 2004
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:24:44 +0200
Subject: galagASCII
References: <1079966982.1784.183098800@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <87isgwwrxv.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"Lincoln Rutledge" <lrutledge at realemail.net> writes:

> Lots of bugs so when it dies, you may have to re-login b/c the terminal
> is in a wierd mode thanks to curses.endwin() not getting run...

There is a command called "reset" that resets the terminal. 

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!




From no.mail at available.net  Sun Mar 14 13:17:53 2004
From: no.mail at available.net (Georgy)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:17:53 GMT
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
References: <mailman.29.1079282915.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ll15c.85774$%d3.5456667@twister.southeast.rr.com>


"Anthony Liu" <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:mailman.29.1079282915.745.python-list at python.org...
| In terms of file input, can we read from the end of
| the file till the beginning of a file?


reversed_text = file( filename, "r" ).read()[::-1]




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 11:44:31 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:31 +0000
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<104q64b2uf3nl0b@news.supernews.com>
	<c2mrrq$1k7$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<104u4ktn5hoc9db@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <k1hu40ll9e7e3snd8jiqc9trptntltmcke@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:04:22 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>> While that makes some sense, what about "uncle" references within the
>> current package?
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "Uncle." The term usually
>means "parent's brother" or "some son of your grandparents
>other than your father" so I'd assume it would go up one
>directory and then sideways, which would require going up
>another directory.
>
>If you are refering to another module in the same directory
>that this one came from, then I'd code that as:
>
>import *.foo
>
>However, possibly you meant "cousin?"

That doesn't sound right either.

A cousin is an uncles son. Maybe he meant sibling or brother.

sibling = sideways ref
uncle   = up then sideways ref
cousin  = up then sideways ref then down

OTOH, it depends where you consider the start point to be. It seems
pointless to have the start point as 'self', so maybe the start point
is 'father'. A simple reference would then be to a sibling (implicit
up then down) and a sideways reference to an uncle.

I'm probably just confused, though I'd love to know exactly how.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 24 08:25:21 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 15:25:21 +0200
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.333.1080132076.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7lllqfkce.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:

    Andrew> Decorators don't add any new capabilities to python, just
    Andrew> a more convenient spelling for existing features.

I know, the decorator syntax just makes these look so much nicer.

    Andrew> Which is to say, I don't understand how that can work --
    Andrew> the first definition of foo gets clobbered.

Yes, the name 'foo' gets clobbered every time, but the decorator
always returns the *dispatcher* that is capable of dispatching the
call to the correct definition of 'foo'. The dispatcher preserves the
references to the callables, so they don't get decreffed out of
existence.

The dispatcher obviously needs a reference to a module global dict
object of some sort, with some magical name like
'__mm_dispatcher_registry'.

    Andrew> You *could* have a global registry that's keyed off
    Andrew> func_name, as you suggest, but that doesn't work in
    Andrew> general... what if I later have:

    Andrew> class C2:
    Andrew> def foo(self, other):
    Andrew> ...
    Andrew> foo = multimethod(Long, String)(foo)

    Andrew> How is the registry not going to help distinguish between
    Andrew> the foo methods from C, and the foo methods from C2?

It's not. I'm still thinking of multimethods mostly as plain functions
with dynamic dispatching on arg types, not actual methods. To get the
functionality in methods, you just need to call the mm function
explicitly with an unique name inside the method.

I'm not sure whether methods could be dispatched more automatically,
someone might have some ideas?

    Andrew> I don't understand why __mul__ is any different to foo here.

Well, it's just that __mul__ absolutely needs to be a method in order
to be called on seeing an * operator. 'foo' can be taken out of the
class.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Mar 25 09:13:47 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 15:13:47 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <wzbrmlqajo.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> (JG) wrote:

JG> Matthias <no at spam.pls> writes:
>> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:
>> 
>> > >>>>> "Jacek" == Jacek Trzmiel <sc0rp at hot.pl> writes:
>> > 
>> >     Jacek> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>> >     >> ... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is
>> >     >> static typing ...
>> > 
>> >     Jacek> Care to provide some examples to back this opinion up?

JG> Your supercite references to "Jacek" are rather ambiguous, in this
JG> case (unlikely though it may seem, in general :-)

Tat is because supercite used `statically typed' citing, whereas
traditional citing is untyped. In this specific case it seems that static
typing is less confusing :=)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From michael at foord.net  Fri Mar 12 08:50:34 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 05:50:34 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>	<c2i6lh$ono$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>	<8089854e.0403100004.4c49cd3c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.212.1078907612.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403120550.258e7601@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.212.1078907612.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > I can do a proof of concept on my own computer with a personal server.
> 
> If you're writing a CGI script, putting the PySQLite files into the cgi-bin 
> directory will work fine. Just copy them from a PC where you've installed PySQLite 
> locally:
> 
> cgi-bin directory:
> 
> myscript.py     <----- your CGI script
> _sqlite.pyd
> sqlite/
> sqlite/main.py
> sqlite/__init__.py
> 
> HTH,
> 
> -- Gerhard


Hmmm.... that's looking good.
All I need is a prebuilt verson of _sqlite.pyd for our *Linux*
server..... and to learn SQL.... (or at least SQLite syntax)

Regards,

Fuzzy


From cbrown at metservice.com  Sat Mar 13 19:21:39 2004
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:21:39 +1300
Subject: Behaviour of time.sleep with negative arg
Message-ID: <4053a412$1@news.iconz.co.nz>

Python 2.3.3
Under Windows NT:  Negative Int or Real -> sleeps for a long time
Under Linux: Returns IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument

I consider both of these unfriendly results and expected the preferable
silent time.sleep(0) in much the same way that slicing a string beyond the
ends returns an empty string.

Colin Brown
PyNZ





From tkablackdeath at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  8 01:32:06 2004
From: tkablackdeath at hotmail.com (Ben Drayton)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:32:06 +1300
Subject: help
Message-ID: <BAY2-F42Q5BmmAnoMQx0002beea@hotmail.com>

hey i was wondering if there was any easy was to make txt documents end 
lines. I have a very basic password program which needs to pick a line out 
from the others in the document to use as the password. However the document 
is just comming out in one long line. Also any sugestions for imporement on 
my password program would be appreciated. thnaks. (here is the program if it 
helps. it sucks i kno but hey im new)

count = 0
password = ""
password1 = ""
username = ""
username1 = ""
pword = open ('hddl.txt')
while password1 != pword.readline (26) and username1 != pword.readline (4)  
and password != pword.readline(28)  and username != pword.readline(5) and 
count < 3:
    username = raw_input("username:")
    password = raw_input("password:")
    count = count +1
    if username == pword.readline(4) and password == pword.readline (26):
        password = password1
        username = username1
        password = pword.readline(28)
        username = pword.readline(5)
    if username == pword.readline(5) and password == pword.readline(28):
        password1 = pword.readline (26)
        username1 = pword.readline (4)
    else:
        print
if (password1 == pword.readline(26) and username1 == pword.readline(4) and 
count < 3 and password == pword.readline(28)  and username == 
pword.readline(5) and count < 3):
#there is a program here
else:
     print "sorry authorised access onl"

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra JetStream @  
http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream




From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Mar  4 18:19:32 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:19:32 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OA108_1078442351_ESRIMAIL_1 wa
	s generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124A2A@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The attachment was quarantined from the message and replaced with a text
file informing the recipient of the action taken.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
jceasar at tmp.org <jceasar at tmp.org>

Sent:
915163136,29622834

Subject:
^_^ meay-meay!

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: Message.zip
File: Message.zip
Infected? Yes
Repaired? No
Blocked? No
Deleted? No
Virus Name: W32/Bagle.gen!pwdzip



	
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From knight at baldmt.com  Thu Mar 11 22:50:36 2004
From: knight at baldmt.com (Steven Knight)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:50:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: SCons 0.95 supports Visual Studio 2003, Borland tools, "D"
 programming language
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403120350170.23249-100000@casablanca.home.baldmt.com>

SCons is a software construction tool (build tool, or make tool) written
in Python.  It is based on the design which won the Software Carpentry
build tool competition in August 2000.

Version 0.95 of SCons has been released and is available for download
from the SCons web site:

	http://www.scons.org/

Or through the download link at the SCons project page at SourceForge:

	http://sourceforge.net/projects/scons/

RPM and Debian packages and a Win32 installer are all available, in
addition to the traditional .tar.gz and .zip files.


WHAT'S NEW IN THIS RELEASE?

IMPORTANT:  Release 0.95 contains the following interface changes:

  - The default behavior of the Zip() Builder is now to create a
    compressed file.
  - The "overrides" keyword argument when creating a Builder() has been
    deprecated in favor of specifying the values directly with keyword
    arguments.
  - The meaning of the "mode" keyword argument values to the
    SCons.Util.scons_subst() and SCons.Util.scons_subst_list() functions
    have been changed.  (These are internal functions and should have
    no external effect, but we list them here for completeness.)

  See the release notes for more information about these changes.

This release adds the following features:

  - Microsoft Visual Studio 2003 (version 7.1) is now supported.
  - The bcc32, ilink32 and tlib Borland tools are now supported.
  - The Digital Mars "D" programming language is now supported.
  - A new $MSVS_USE_MFC_DIRS construction variable controls whether the
    Microsoft Visual Studio ATL and MFC directories are included in the
    default INCLUDE and LIB paths.
  - New AppendUnique() and PrependUnique() Environment methods add values
    (flags) to construction variables only if they're not already present.
  - New "rsrcpath" and "rsrcdir" attributes to the $TARGET, $TARGETS,
    $SOURCE and $SOURCES construction variables allow Builder commands
    to access Repository source directories when using a Builder.
  - A new --debug=count option displays the numbers of various types
    of internal objects created, when run under Python 2.1 or later.
  - A new --debug=objects option dumps information about SCons internal
    objects when run under Python 2.1 or later.
  - A new --debug=memory option displays memory usage statistics when
    run under Linux systems.
  - A new ZIPCOMPRESSION construction variable controls whether the
    internal Python action for the Zip Builder compresses the file
    or not.  The default value is zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED, which generates
    a compressed file.
  - A new "toolpath" Tool() and Environment keyword allows Tool modules
    to be searched for in specified local directories.

The following bug fixes have been added:

  - SCons now gracefully handles non-string construction variables in
    all known situations.
  - Construction variables may now be recursively expanded (e.g. CCFLAGS =
    "$CCFLAGS -g") without going into an infinite loop.
  - Compile the moc_*.cc Qt files using the correct environment flags,
    not those from the environment that first had Qt Builders attached.
  - Expansions like ${TARGET.dir} now work properly in *PATH construction
    variables (like CPPPATH, F77PATH, etc.).
  - Qt support now works from a copied construction environment.
  - The M4 Builder now changes correctly to a Repository directory when
    the source file is in the source directory of a BuildDir.
  - Automatic checkout of implicit dependency files from SCCS and RCS
    has been fixed.
  - Builder-specific override values are now always used in substitutions,
    not just when there isn't a target-specific environment.
  - SCons now properly checks for whether all of the objects going into
    a SharedLibrary() are shared, even if the object was already built.
  - SCons now correctly looks up a Win32 drive letter with no path ('C:')
    as a directory.
  - Specifying .class files as input to JavaH with the .class suffix
    when they weren't generated using the Java Builder has been fixed.
  - The env.Action() method now returns the correct type of
    Action for its argument(s).
  - The Configure() function now works when called from nested subsidiary
    SConscript files more than one level deep.
  - Error message spellings have been corrected from "non-existant" to
    "non-existent."
  - The EnsureSConsVersion() function now checks against the SCons
    version, not the Python version, for all Python version.
  - SCons now properly handles command-line arguments with multiple =
    in them.
  - SCons now correctly retrieves all files from cache when multiple
    files would ordinarily be built by in a single Action.
  - Use of a custom _concat() function in the construction environment
    when calling _stripixes() has been fixed.
  - The Fortran scanner is now case-insensitive for the INCLUDE string
    (per the Fortan spec).
  - Side-effect targets are now properly removed before building their
    corresponding target.
  - BuildDir() can, once again, be called multiple times with the same
    target and source directory arguments.
  - Output lines now stay (more nearly) together when -j is used.
  - A bug in saving and restoring PackageOptions to a file has been fixed.
  - Microsoft Visual Studio type libraries are now built in the target
    directory, not the source directory.
  - Generated Microsoft Visual Studio project files now re-invoke SCons
    correctly regardless of whether the file was built via scons.bat
    or scons.py.
  - Evaluate $MSVSPROJECTSUFFIX and $MSVSSOLUTIONSUFFIX when the Builder
    is invoked, not when the tool is initialized.
  - A typo has been fixed in the Microsoft Visual C registry lookup
    ("VCComponents.dat", not "VSComponents.dat").
  - When using Microsoft Visual C++, SCons now uses independently
    configured "include," "lib" or "path" from the registry.  Previously,
    SCons would only use the values if all three were set in the registry.
  - SCons now ignore any "6.1" version of Microsoft Visual C++ found in
    the registry; this is apparently a phony version number (created by
    later service packs?) that throws off the logic if the user had any
    non-default paths configured.
  - SCons now uses the Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 paths by default if the
    "msvc" Tool is specified but no version of MSVC is detected on disk.

The following miscellaneous improvements have been added:

  - All *FLAGS variables now "do the right thing" (as much as possible)
    when appending flags with either strings or lists of flags.
  - The -H help text now lists the legal --debug values.
  - SCons now supplies an error message if you try to configure a BuildDir
    for a directory that already has one.
  - The error message when a source file can't be found has been reworded
    to make it more clear.
  - SCons now supplies a useful error message, not a stack trace, if a
    construction variable expansion contains a syntax error.
  - SCons now supplies meaningful error messages, not stack traces, if
    a non-Node is added as a source, dependency, or ignored dependency
    of a Node.
  - The $LIBS construction variable can now contain File nodes, and
    can now be a single string or File node, not a list, when only one
    library is needed.
  - When scanning for libraries to link with, SCons no longer appends
    $LIBPREFIXES or $LIBSUFFIXES values to the $LIBS values if they're
    already present.
  - SCons now allows a target that can have its Builder called multiple
    times to be called through multiple environments without error,
    so long as the Builder calls all use the same action.
  - The message about ignoring a missing SConscript file is now a
    suppressable Warning, not a hard-coded sys.stderr.write().
  - On POSIX systems with the "env" command, spawn commands with the
    more portable "env -" idiom, instead of "env -i".
  - Improve Cygwin support by accomodating Cygwin Python's delusion that
    it's running on a case-sensitive file system.
  - Microsoft Visual Studio .NET and Visual C 6.0/7.0 path detection
    has been updated and made more robust.

Memory utilization has been improved as follows:

  - "Build" construction environments with overrides are now only
    generated as needed, not for every target.
  - Nodes now delete their build environments after they've been built.

The documentation has been improved:

  - The User's Guide now has an appendix describing how to accomplish
    various common tasks in Python.
  - Mention of the still-unimplemented -e option has been removed.
  - A man page typo of "JAVACHDIR" instead of "JARCHDIR" has been fixed.
  - An undocumented "for_signature" argument in the __call__() example
    of the "Variable Substitution" section has now been documented.
  - An odd double-quote escape sequence in the man page has been fixed.
  - The dbm_module argument to the SConsignFile() function has been
    documented.


ABOUT SCONS

Distinctive features of SCons include:

  - a global view of all dependencies; no multiple passes to get
    everything built properly
  - configuration files are Python scripts, allowing the full use of a
    real scripting language to solve difficult build problems
  - a modular architecture allows the SCons Build Engine to be
    embedded in other Python software
  - the ability to scan files for implicit dependencies (#include files);
  - improved parallel build (-j) support that provides consistent
    build speedup regardless of source tree layout
  - use of MD5 signatures to decide if a file has really changed; no
    need to "touch" files to fool make that something is up-to-date
  - easily extensible through user-defined Builder and Scanner objects
  - build actions can be Python code, as well as external commands

An scons-users mailing list is available for those interested in getting
started using SCons.  You can subscribe at:

	http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scons-users

Alternatively, we invite you to subscribe to the low-volume
scons-announce mailing list to receive notification when new versions of
SCons become available:

	http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scons-announce


ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

Special thanks to Chad Austin, Kerim Borchaev, Chris Burghart, Steve
Christensen, David M. Cooke, Charles Crain, Andy Friesen, Scott Lystig
Fritchie, Bob Halley, Zephaniah Hull, Vincent Risi, Anthony Roach, Greg
Spencer and Christoph Wiedemann for their contributions to this release.

On behalf of the SCons team,

	--SK




From mgb at mgbeckett.com  Thu Mar 25 06:18:06 2004
From: mgb at mgbeckett.com (Martin Beckett)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 03:18:06 -0800
Subject: Getting username and passwd from IE
References: <6b13855b.0403240446.7206703b@posting.google.com>
	<2c60a528.0403241250.9a8b572@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6b13855b.0403250318.41cd928b@posting.google.com>

> Don't know about BaseHTTPServer in particular, but in general 401 must be
> used in conjunction with the WWW-Authenticate response header, or the browser
> won't know what kind of authentication to send.
> 
>   self.send_header('WWW-Authenticate', 'basic realm="Fab site"')

 Thank you  that works - specifically:

   self.send_response(401)
   self.send_header('WWW-Authenticate','basic')
   self.end_headers

And to help other searches:  Internet Explorer force send username
password authentication AUTHORIZATION


From srijit at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 13:43:55 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 10:43:55 -0800
Subject: Is Python type safe?
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I would like to know the definition of type safe and whether Python
can be considered as a type safe language. Similarly are Java, C# or
C++ type safe?

Regards,
Srijit


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Mon Mar 15 23:43:01 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:43:01 GMT
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pBv5c.18450$8G2.5244@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:49:58 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>    Dave> Maybe we could somehow switch off the generation of shared objects
>>    Dave> for modules in a 'debug' mode.
>>
>>You'd have to disable the integer free list.  There's also code in
>>tupleobject.c to recognize and share the empty tuple.  String interning
>>could be disabled as well.  Everybody's ignored the gorilla in the room:
>>
>>    >>> sys.getrefcount(None)
>>    1559
> 
> Implementation detail.  ( half wink )
> 
>>In general, I don't think that disabling immutable object sharing would be
>>worth the effort.  Consider the meaning of module level integers.  In my
>>experience they are generally constants and are infrequently changed once
>>set.  Probably the only thing worth tracking down during a super reload
>>would be function, class and method definitions.
> 
> If you reload a module M1, and it has an attribute M1.x, which was
> changed from '1' to '2', we want to change also any references that
> may have been created with statements like 'x = M1.x', or 'from M1
> import *'  If we don't do this, reload() will continue to baffle and
> frustrate new users.


What if one of your users does something like 'y = M1.x + 1'; then
what are you going to do?

It seems to me that your noble effort to make reload() completely
foolproof is ultimately in vain: there's just too many opportunities
for a module's variables to affect things far away.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From myang at clarku.edu  Sat Mar 13 21:22:11 2004
From: myang at clarku.edu (myang)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:22:11 -0500
Subject: execute script everywhere
Message-ID: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMCEICCDAA.myang@clarku.edu>


After we compile a C program, we can put the executable file under a
directory (like /bin) so that we can run it everywhere, and don't have to
type the full path.
Can we do the same thing to a python script?
For example, I have a script.py under "/home/john/". Can I just type "python
script.py" to run it under another directory "/home/tom/"?
Thanks!

Yang




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Mar 15 14:58:24 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:58:24 +0000
Subject: tkinter entry/text widget
In-Reply-To: <d1b33313.0403151108.5fa31ffb@posting.google.com>
References: <d1b33313.0403151108.5fa31ffb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40560AE0.3070107@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

bigbinc wrote:
> I have used the 'entry' tk widget to get text values, I am now using
> 'Text' but I cant seem to use 'get' method.  The TK docs say use
> get(index1, index2), I tried numbers and get an error
> 
> 
> print self.textMain.get(1,255)
> 
> ceback (most recent call last):
> ile "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call
>  return self.func(*args)
> ile "blog.py", line 60, in saveFile
>  print self.textMain.get("1","255")
> ile "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 2868, in get
>  return self.tk.call(self._w, 'get', index1, index2)
> Error: bad text index "1"

You should go get the Tk command reference OK it's not written in 
'Python' but it's still easy to translate.
Download a HTML version from here:--

http://www.tcl.tk/man/

The Exact reference for this problem would be :-

http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.4/TkCmd/text.htm#M18

'Text widget INDICES'

It boils down to passing strings to the .get() method like so:-

myTextWidget.get("0.0", "end")

will get all the text in the Text widget.


HTH
Martin










From amk at amk.ca  Mon Mar  8 08:29:14 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:29:14 -0600
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<QjV2c.302$_43.225384@newshog.newsread.com>
	<Xns94A656BFE40Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<a1Y2c.417$vv4.309920@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <DOqdnVlUHc236NHdRVn-vg@speakeasy.net>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:36:54 GMT, 
	Leif K-Brooks <eurleif at ecritters.biz> wrote:
> Why check for unknown keyword arguments? It seems to me that better 
> forward-compatibility is achieved if we ignore them.

Typo-catching, probably; otherwise if someone wrote
show(a,b,c, seperator=':') they'll get output without colons
and wonder why.

--amk


From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Sun Mar 21 10:49:49 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:49:49 -0500
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.202.1079855736.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.202.1079855736.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xQi7c.1545$A_2.65385@news20.bellglobal.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:


> I think if I were to write my own version today in pure Python,
> it'd be invoked as: limit(object, lower, upper), where <object> could be
> an iterable. I see that as a much more common use case; that is, mapping
> the same pair of boundaries to multiple items.
> 
> 

Interesting.  I had a simple one written in pure Python that was just 
checking the type of object to determine if it was a sequence
Agreed.  I had writte a pure Python one where I was looking for the 
object type with type(object).

def restrain(theObject, lowerBound, upperBound):
     if type(theObject) in [types.ListType, types.TupleType]:
         return map(lambda val,theMin,theMax: 
min(max(val,theMin),theMax) , theObject, lowerBound, upperBound)
     else:
         return  min(max(theObject, lowerBound), upperBound)

However,

1) I don't like using type(theObject) to check if it is a sequence 
because that does not allow iterable objects.
2) It does not allow the use case you just mentionned where the same 
boundary is applied to every member set.


So I wonder:

1) what's the easiest way to find if an object is iterable?  There is no 
'isiterable()' built in.  Would it be to try iterate over it and cath 
the potential exception or is there a better way?


Pierre Rouleau



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Mar 10 07:50:15 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 13:50:15 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
	<c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<8089854e.0403080014.4e03b516@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wzn06o50jc.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) (F) wrote:

F> Because I *won't* be allowed to install anything other than python
F> scripts on the server...........

F> So I am looking for a database implementation in python........

I suppose your python script is allowed to write some file(s), otherwise you
wouldn't be able to implement a database. You could import a special
_sqlite.py module that has _sqlite.pyd encoded in a big string, and on
the first call writes it out to _sqlite.pyd and wouldn't be called on
subsequent times.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Tue Mar 30 01:33:08 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:33:08 +0200
Subject: Britney Spears nude
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com> <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
	<c49rqo$2ebolk$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4aeen$2fp91b$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1080607371.97814.0@iris.uk.clara.net>
	<c4ai0f$2fjeo0$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4b6pn$93d$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !


    Is "BOOB  = Britney Oriented Object Breast"  correct ?


*sorry for my bad english*

@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar  5 14:17:14 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:17:14 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
References: <Law11-F108dhVtRRM4c0002bf6d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c2ajnq$o48$1@sea.gmane.org>


"jon c" <jon_couchman at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Law11-F108dhVtRRM4c0002bf6d at hotmail.com...
> the error is coming from windows!
>
> the error message is as I wrote it.
>
> if you try and execute the command directly from bat you get the error
input
> line too long!

As I expected...

> can perl be somehow bypassing the windows terminal and running the
command
> directly (does this make sense?)

It must be.  Given that it (reportedly) bypasses the C stdio library (on
Windows), it would not surprise me.  With more users, probably had one hit
length limit sooner, and with greater willingness than Python developers to
bypass Ansi C, might have done so.

Besides trying Hansen's idea of popen instead of systen() (or vice versa),
3 ideas:

1. Write minimal Perl program to make call, and call that from Python ;-)

2. Rewrite Java program to input long list from file instead of command
line, if such is possible (I have no idea) and if you can write Java or get
someone who does (no idea of that either).

3. Read win perl source to determine what system calls it is using and then
use Hammond's PyWin extensions to do same from Python.

Trying to be helpful,

Terry J. Reedy






From pcaffrey at iel.ie  Fri Mar 26 10:40:45 2004
From: pcaffrey at iel.ie (Paul)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 07:40:45 -0800
Subject: odd behaviour with embedded python and omniorb
References: <6c5f2ab0.0403250846.6e773bb0@posting.google.com>
	<c7ee2$4064176f$51604868$1150@nf2.news-service-com>
Message-ID: <bfef2a62.0403260740.2168688e@posting.google.com>

Hi Duncan

Duncan Grisby <duncan-news at grisby.org> wrote in message news:<c7ee2$4064176f$51604868$1150 at nf2.news-service-com>...
> In article <6c5f2ab0.0403250846.6e773bb0 at posting.google.com>,
> denginere <denginere at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >I have a situation where I am embedding python in c++ and
> >calling omniorb within python.
> 
> You're better off asking this kind of question on the omniORB mailing
> list.
> 
> >c++ -> python -> c++ -> python
> >
> >The python is called using the following
> >    // Import the module/script
> >    pTmpModule = PyImport_Import(pName);
> >    PyObject_CallObject(pFunc, pArgs);
> >
> >If we call python once it's fine
> >If we call python a second time (as above) it fine *mostly*
> >
> >However if we call python a second time, *and* import omniORB
> >the PyImport_Import fails!
> 
> How does it fail?
y", line 4, in ?
    from omniORB import CORBA
  File "./__init__.py", line 357, in ?
ImportError: No module named omni_func



> 
> Are you reinitialising the Python interpreter between calls into it?
> If so, you might want to try the CVS version of omniORBpy since it has
> some fixes for that situation.
I think the answer it no: The second time we use a different Python context

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Duncan.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar 25 17:56:38 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:56:38 -0800
Subject: [Newbie]Trouble with string method
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F5F@opus.amorhq.net>

Sean Berry wrote:
> Try the following
> 
> unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r').readlines() -- two steps into one
> unsorted.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(string.lower(x), string.lower(y)))
> unsorted.close()
> sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> sorted.writelines(unsorted)
> soretd.close()
> 
> Your problem is that you are trying to use a string method on a list.
> 
> 
> calpolynate <nathanjohns77 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:96fd272b.0403251442.49047ba9 at posting.google.com...
> > I'm attempting to open a file, read the lines, sort them, change any
> > uppercase character to lowercase, and output to another file:
> >
> > import string
> >
> > unsorted = open('unsorted', 'r')
> > L = unsorted.readlines()
> > L.sort()
> > L = L.lower()
> > sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
> > sorted.writelines(L)
> > unsorted.close()
> > sorted.close()
> >
> > when trying to run, I get this traceback:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "sort_list.py", line 6, in ?
> >     L = L.lower(L)
> > AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'lower'
> >
> > Do I need to somehow convert the list into strings?
> >
> > Thanks for any help!

I think he wanted the output to be lowercase, not just sorted
case-insensitively (that's how I read it anyway). Try:

lines = [line.lower() for line in open('unsorted', 'r')]
lines.sort()
sorted = open('sorted', 'w')
sorted.writelines(lines)
sorted.close()


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 17:30:24 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:30:24 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
In-Reply-To: <b840abf4.0403221108.7f5edd26@posting.google.com>
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b840abf4.0403221108.7f5edd26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3qdvr$b8n$2@news.service.uci.edu>

>>from HOW.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
>>import HOW.MODULE.NAMES as RENAME
>>
>>Where HOW is of the form:
>>-<INTEGER>[.PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]
>>[PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]

> +1. (I know I'm late :)

Glad you like it.

> Very readable, doesn't use any new magical names - and numbers have no
> other use in import statements anyway. There is something different in
> it, in a positive sense.
> 
> I'll miss the current behavior of import, though. Somehow it feels
> more intuitive to me. Oh, well, practicality beats purity - or
> personal taste...

You can still use classic import semantics, -<INTEGER> is optional.

  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 10:19:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:19:37 -0500
Subject: "Virtual" file system mock object - replacing stuff in
	__builtins__
In-Reply-To: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
References: <404844e3$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <9oSdnRHo7cgXB9XdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Remy Blank wrote:

> As a fan of TDD (test-driven development), I use the unittest module to 
> write the test cases for these tools. However, to make the test cases 
> independent of the file system environment, I simulate a file system 
> tree with a mock object using the following technique (sorry for the 
> long posting):
> [snip code]
> Now my questions:
>  - Am I doing something fundamentally forbidden (replacing stuff in 
> existing modules like __builtins__ or os)?
>  - Is there a better way of achieving the same result?
>  - If the technique is generally useful, would there be interest in 
> having a full-featured "virtual" file system mock object? I couldn't 
> find anything similar on Google.

It's not fundamentally forbidden to stick things in __builtins__, or 
even other standard modules, but it's rarely necessary and might be 
subject to a future ban if those people who periodically discuss 
disallow assignments to __builtins__ have their way and forget about 
those of us who need the technique for testing.

Nevertheless, if you are really doing things in a test-driven fashion, 
it should not be necessary to use __builtins__, if the open() calls and 
such are in your own code.  In that case just create a reference to your 
mock file system methods in the module under test, using the names 
"open" and "stat" and so forth, and they will shadow the __builtin__ 
names.  (Locals are found first, then globals, then builtins.)

I don't know of a better way of doing this, and in fact we've built our 
own mock file system in several different projects, in a limited fashion.

The idea of a standardized or at least widely used "full-featured" 
virtual file system is an excellent one!  Writing tests that rely on the 
real filesystem can be awkward and is probably one of the many small 
things stopping/slowing some people from adopting TDD more.

-Peter


From oussoren at cistron.nl  Thu Mar 18 15:22:02 2004
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:22:02 +0100
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0@posting.google.com>
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<38ec68a6.0403171750.7a300cb2@posting.google.com>
	<40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EA586622-7919-11D8-8375-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>


On 18-mrt-04, at 14:14, Axel Boldt wrote:

> afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) wrote
>> axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote
>
>>>                                      Why would anybody ever want to
>>> know whether two strings or tupels are internally stored at the same
>>> location, other than to deduce details of the Python implementation?
>>
>> Most obviously to tell whether they are the same object or not.
>> While this is not an issue with simple strings, have you considered
>> what effect your suggestions would have on classes inheriting from
>> str?
>
> Indeed I have not. Probably because basic built-in strings form a type
> that's not a class and you can't inherit from it.

Yes you can:

Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class MyStr(str): pass
...
 >>> x = MyStr("hello")
 >>> type(x)
<class '__main__.MyStr'>
 >>>




From daniel at syrinx.net  Fri Mar 26 17:00:06 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:00:06 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
	<MezCgcAebKZAFwzi@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c4294v$2dqrjl$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MezCgcAebKZAFwzi at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> It's getting near to April 1 so is prothon http://www.prothon.org/ real?
> -- 
> Robin Becker

If so, it's a pretty elaborate hoax: the interpreter is downloadable and
even works! :) There are also three active mailing lists.

Daniel Ellison




From duncan-news at grisby.org  Fri Mar 26 06:43:43 2004
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:43:43 +0000
Subject: odd behaviour with embedded python and omniorb
References: <6c5f2ab0.0403250846.6e773bb0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c7ee2$4064176f$51604868$1150@nf2.news-service-com>

In article <6c5f2ab0.0403250846.6e773bb0 at posting.google.com>,
denginere <denginere at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have a situation where I am embedding python in c++ and
>calling omniorb within python.

You're better off asking this kind of question on the omniORB mailing
list.

>c++ -> python -> c++ -> python
>
>The python is called using the following
>    // Import the module/script
>    pTmpModule = PyImport_Import(pName);
>    PyObject_CallObject(pFunc, pArgs);
>
>If we call python once it's fine
>If we call python a second time (as above) it fine *mostly*
>
>However if we call python a second time, *and* import omniORB
>the PyImport_Import fails!

How does it fail?

Are you reinitialising the Python interpreter between calls into it?
If so, you might want to try the CVS version of omniORBpy since it has
some fixes for that situation.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --


From google at neilson.sent.com  Mon Mar  8 09:40:15 2004
From: google at neilson.sent.com (Daniel H Neilson)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 06:40:15 -0800
Subject: Question on loops
References: <mailman.109.1078711865.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e0bff448.0403080640.24f76dec@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.109.1078711865.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: Daniel H Neilson
> > 
> > i = 0
> > for line in file:
> >     if i == 100:
> >         action
> >         i = 0
> >     else:
> >         i += 1
> >     process(line)

<snip>

> If you're using Python 2.3.x
> 
> for i, line in enumerate(file):
>     if i % 100 == 0:
>         action
> 
>     process(line)
> 
> Tim Delaney

Beautiful. Thanks to those who responded. DHN


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Mar 13 15:47:36 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:47:36 -0500
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc56h7n.1vj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>	<mailman.350.1079165978.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc56h7n.1vj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <40537368.2060205@rogers.com>

Joe Mason wrote:

>In article <mailman.350.1079165978.19534.python-list at python.org>, Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>  
>
>>Kenneth McDonald wrote:
>>...
>>    
>>
>>>Can anyone comment on the performance
>>>costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?
>>>      
>>>
...

>>OpenGLContext gets around this by 
>>defining an accelerator for the __get__ method of the field properties.  
>>    
>>
>
>What does "accelerator" mean in this context?  Obviously, it's something
>that speeds up __get__ calls, but ihow is that accomplished?
>  
>
Accelerator in this context is a small C-coded Python extension with two 
functions.  One is a utility to retrieve a given key from an object's 
__dict__.  The other implements the __get__ operation (including lookup 
of default method on the property on value lookup failure failure).  All 
told about 100 lines of C code.

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pyopengl/vrml/accellerate/fieldaccel.c?view=markup

(and yes, I know accelerate is mis-spelled in the module names :) ).

>If it's a simple wrapper, that means you can blissfully ignore property
>costs until profiling shows it's a problem, which is a big win.
>  
>
That's been my experience.  I coded the entire VRML97 scenegraph engine 
without the accelerator module and only added it when profiling showed 
that the __get__ method was a hot-spot for performance.  The 
non-accelerated code is still there in case the C module isn't 
available, of course.  As I said, haven't gotten to the 
accelerator-writing stage yet with BasicProperty, but I expect to soon.

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar 20 12:51:40 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:51:40 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3hpcp$t7p$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>	<105oe5k5ovugi5e@news.supernews.com>
	<c3hpcp$t7p$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <405C84AC.5040706@stackless.com>

Yannick Patois wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> It's always very funny to read commented on  onself at the third person;)
> 
> I'm sorry to lost reader's time on this message, which is off-topic, 
> but, I couldnt resist to respond, being directly involved in this post.
> 
> John Roth wrote:
> 
>> The reason he's getting the flack he's getting 
> 
>> His response to Terry's
>> original attempt to help him see what was going on was
>> both rude and sarcastic; that kind of behavior simply isn't
>> acceptable on this newsgroup.
> 
> 
> Then, the behavior of Terry should also have been quoted as rude and 
> sarcastic. Most readers understood what I meant with my (incorrect) 
> qualification of "static".

Sure, I had no problem to understand, and my first reaction on
Terry's reply was like "why is this needed".

Maybe this is perceived differently by different people,
as I can understand John's POV well as well.
And it happens quite often if you are answering many questions,
that you get bored since you see the same stuff again and again.
At least for my part, I sometimes react less friendly to newbie
questions than I should. When I'm lucky, I read it again
before sending and start over :-)

> I hope persons should be able to post here 
> even if they dont master python vocabulary from a to z.

This should be no problem, and I think this was misreadings/
misunderstandings, and I hope that you all bury the hatchet
and be constructive, again.

a nice weekend to all -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Fri Mar  5 21:56:48 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:56:48 +1100
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040306025648.GC1878@frobozz>

On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 06:16:34PM -0800, Anthony Liu wrote:
[...]
> read(), readline(), readlines() is what I want. I want
> to read a text file sentence by sentence. 
> 
> A sentence by definition is roughly the part between a
> full stop and another full stop or !, ?
> 
> So, for example, for the following text:
> 
> "Some words here, and some other words. Then another
> segment follows, and more. This is a question, a junk
> question, followed by a question mark?"
> 
> It has 3 sentences (2 full stops and 1 question mark),
> and therefore I want to read it in 3 lumps and each
> lump gives me one complete sentence as follows:
> 
> lump 1: Some words here, and some other words.
> 
> lump 2: Then another segment follows, and more.
> 
> lump 3: This is a question, a junk question, followed
> by a question mark?
> 
> How can I achieve this?  Do we have a readsentence()
> function?

You can easily write iterators yourself using generators:

----
from StringIO import StringIO

def bytes(f):
    for byte in iter(lambda: f.read(1), ''):
        yield byte

def sentences(iterable):
    sentence = ''
    for char in iterable:
        sentence += char
        if char in ('.', '!', '?'):
            yield sentence.strip()
            sentence = ''
    sentence = sentence.strip()
    if sentence:
        yield sentence

testFile = StringIO(
"""Some words here, and some other words. Then another
segment follows, and more. This is a question, a junk
question, followed by a question mark?""")

for count, s in enumerate(sentences(bytes(testFile))):
    print 'lump %d: %r' % (count+1, s)
----

This gives the following output:

lump 1: 'Some words here, and some other words.'
lump 2: 'Then another\nsegment follows, and more.'
lump 3: 'This is a question, a junk\nquestion, followed by a question mark?'

Unfortunately (but not surprisingly), the re module only accepts strings,
not iterables, otherwise you could use re.finditer, rather than writing your
own less general function.

Note that I've only lightly tested that code, and it's probably very
inefficient.

-Andrew.




From kahanpaa at gstar.astro.helsinki.fi  Sat Mar 27 04:46:38 2004
From: kahanpaa at gstar.astro.helsinki.fi (Jere Kahanpaa)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 09:46:38 GMT
Subject: creating lists question?
References: <FL18c.4127$ol3.3753@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<c3q9mr$760$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jC28c.4134$ol3.2641@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c43ihu$s5h$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Hi.

spisatus <spisatus at coqui.net> wrote:
> Josiah,
> Now I know I have a long way to go:O)

> I'm not sure this is doing what I want it to do. In the example I gave I
> want a new list call "aaa" another list called "bbb"... so I can append to
> the new list  i.e., bbb.append().  It may be that your example does this but
> it appears to be (with my limited knowledge) that it's creating a list of
> lists, when all I want is a new isolated list.

OK, now I understand what you are trying to do. Personally I'd store the 
lists in a dictionary:

names = ['aaa','bbb','ccc']
lists = {} 

for name in names:
   lists[name] = []

lists['aaa'].append('foo')

print lists['aaa'][0]
print lists.items()

This has the added benefit that you can operate on all lists by iterating 
over namedlists.values(). 

Jere
-- 
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey, for one day I may have to eat them
                                                           - Daryl Benson


From me at privacy.net  Fri Mar 12 06:21:03 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 06:21:03 -0500
Subject: Concatenating numerical and string attributes
References: <mailman.305.1079083579.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m265da8g68.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:26:14 -0800 (PST),
dont bother <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote:

> featurevector = string(1)+ " " + string(index[i]) +
> ":" +string(vector[i])
> However, when I run my program I get this error:

> $Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "try.py", line 70, in ?
>     featurevector=string(index[i])+string(vector[i])
> TypeError: 'module' object is not callable

"string" is a module.

"str" is a type.

HTH,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From perky at i18n.org  Sun Mar 21 14:00:54 2004
From: perky at i18n.org (Hye-Shik Chang)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 04:00:54 +0900
Subject: FreeBSD or OpenBSD for Python?
In-Reply-To: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
References: <vr2m50pstjdgktjmbjblpnjhd9or3anl1f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040321190054.GA48617@i18n.org>

On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 01:06:27AM +0000, Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am looking for alternatives to my current Linux OS, and am currently
> evaluating both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
> Has anyone got a strong point for or against one of these OSes,
> specifically regarding Python? I am especially interested in 
> - the ease of compiling CPython
> - the thread support (both for Python and in general)
> - running Twisted.

Maybe not many differences on these points.  But I can introduce
difference of features between FreeBSD and OpenBSD ports. (I'm
slightly biased. sorry :)


		FreeBSD ports				OpenBSD ports

Versions	1.5.2, 2.0.1, 2.1.3,			1.5.2, 2.1.3, 2.2.3,
		2.2.3, 2.3.3, 2.4 (040311)		2.3.3

Backported	- email.Charset fix for cjkcodecs	none
patches (2.3)	- intobject.c 2.105 allocation fix
		- weakrefobject.c 1.13.6.1 gc fix

Unicode		UCS4					UCS2

IPv6		enabled					enabled

Threads		enabled					enabled

Shared lib.	both (PIC shared, non-PIC static)	non-PIC static only

# of ports	197					50
starting with
py-


FreeBSD's port tweaked many options from the original.  So if you
prefer the vanilla python, you'd better to install from the source
tarball.  But you can use a port as it is if you do it in OpenBSD
then.


Regards,
Hye-Shik



From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar  3 13:33:36 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:33:36 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <lv8c401ifbho8nl7e97b6kl7nv5sf4n5c4@4ax.com>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:32:34 GMT, m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless) wrote:

>["Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com>]
>
>>but only because 'sys.stdout.write' is too long to type all
>>the time, and never with more than one argument.

If the only remaining issue is multiple arguments:

>>> import sys
>>> def wrt(*args):
	for arg in args:
		sys.stdout.write(arg)

>>> wrt('abc','xyz\n','abc',1,2,3)
abcxyz
abc123
>>> 

-- Dave


>Yes, I feel it's a pity that the standard write method of file objects
>doesn't take multiple arguments. Would take some of the pressure.
>
>One thing I can do since Python-2.2 is to inherit from 'file' and add
>for example a 'writem' (write many, write multiple) method. This does
>work.
>
>Unfortunately it seems I can't add that 'writem' method to sys.stdout,
>as the following shows.
>
>Anybody any ideas?
>
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
># -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
>"""Test file object."""
>
>__author__ = "Martin Bless, 2004-03-03"
>
>if 1 and "this does work":
>    class MyFile(file):
>
>        def writem(self,*args):
>            "Method to write many arguments."
>            for arg in args:
>                self.write(str(arg))
>
>    f2name = 'xxxtempfile'
>    f2 = MyFile(f2name,'w')
>    f2.writem(1,2,3,4)
>    f2.close()




From moranar at daleclick.com  Sat Mar 20 17:29:12 2004
From: moranar at daleclick.com (Adriano Varoli Piazza)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:29:12 -0300
Subject: problem with a css cycler
Message-ID: <200403201929.12518.moranar@daleclick.com>

Hello all
I am trying to build a css cycler in python, to change the css used in a 
website every X number of days, using a list of files: the first X days 
it'd show file1, then file2, then file3, then back to the first one.

The code I came up with is the following:

css = ["file1", "file2", "file3"]
i = 0
max_i = 3
today = int(raw_input("today's date: "))
stored_day = 1

if 3 <= (today - stored_day):
	stored_day = today
	i += 1
	if i > max_i:
		i = 0
print "Variable today is %s .\n" % today
print "Variable stored_day is %s .\n" % stored_day
print "Variable i is %s .\n" % i
print "Variable css is now %s \n" % css[i]
----------
The problem with this is that it works only for the first X days. How do 
I make it "keep state" for the next iterations?

Thanks
-- 
Adriano Varoli Piazza
The Inside Out: http://moranar.com.ar
ICQ: 4410132
MSN: adrianomd at hotmail.com
Claves gpg / pgp en hkp://subkeys.pgp.net



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 13 12:09:34 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:34 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1056g3f7jnt2jcc@news.supernews.com>


"Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.360.1079190339.19534.python-list at python.org...
> --- srijit at yahoo.com wrote: > Hello,
> > Try Traits
> > (http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Srijit
>
> Who says Python is not strongly typed? Python *is*
> strongly typed. The problem I am facing is that Python
> is also dynamically typed, and I want static typing.

So do a lot of other people. If you want static
typing, go use a language that has it, like Java,
C++ or C#.

John Roth
>
> -Premshree
>
> =====
> -Premshree
> [http://www.qiksearch.com/]




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  3 04:05:42 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 03:05:42 -0600
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0403022111.1a2928b7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
	<30260531.0403022111.1a2928b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16453.40934.279587.86101@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    simo> I'd like to know too - I had a play with psychog but couldn't get
    simo> it to connect, and couldn't find any documentation for it.

If you're familiar with SQL programming in Python in general, it's pretty
straightforward.  It does adhere to v2 of the DB API, so PEP-249 is useful
reading.  Also, see the doc/examples directory.  Here's a psycopg "hello
world" (change the connect arg to suit your server):

    import psycopg
    conn = psycopg.connect('dbname=test user=test')
    curs = conn.cursor()
    curs.execute("""select 'hello world'""")
    print curs.fetchall()

Skip



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 28 20:47:17 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:47:17 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGPJNAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Mark Hahn, about immutability in Prothon]
> ...
> P.S. If this belongs in the Prothon list instead of Python, let us
> know.

Discussion of Prothon decisions is (or should be <wink>) welcome on
comp.lang.python.  You're making some interesting choices that are hard to
try in the CPython core anymore, and I'm keen to learn how they work out for
you!




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar 19 12:05:07 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:05:07 -0600
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040319170506.GH1796@unpythonic.net>

Since the size of plaintext is only 2^53, can't I just calculate 
all 2^53 md5 values in advance, and invert the output of MD5Random to
get MT outputs, then attack MT just like any LFSR?

A time-space tradeoff could be made between the number of precalculated
hashes and the number of outputs from the MD5Random PRNG needed, too.
A quick search on the internet indicates that about 2n bits are needed
to find the initial state of an n-bit LSFR[1], so something like 40000 bits
would be needed to find the internal state of MT, or 380 53-bit outputs.

So let's say you can precalculate 2^30 MD5 inverses, the chance of any
particular output being in the table is 2^-23.  So you'd need something
like 2^31 outputs from MD5Random().  I'm sure the analysis is also
complicated by the fact that your 2n bits won't be consecutive outputs,
but will be widely separated, but it's likely to remain possible.

2^53 is a big number, but it's well less than the 2^128 range for
all MD5 signatures or the 2^64 signatures needed to find a collision.
2^30 storage and 2^31 calls to random is something many of us could at
work, if not at home.

IANAC,
Jeff
[1] http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/RES/COMBCORR.HTM 
"(The Berlekamp-Massey algorithm will recover the unknown state of a
simple n-bit LFSR, and its feedback polynomial, with just 2n known
bits.)"



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Mar 17 11:54:15 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:54:15 -0500
Subject: Compare recursively objects
In-Reply-To: <F5%5c.10$1r6.5@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <LcZ5c.6697$kc2.157952@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<na_5c.5$1r6.1@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<gF_5c.6730$kc2.158843@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<F5%5c.10$1r6.5@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Po%5c.6740$kc2.159176@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> In sum, I suspect you will get diverted to dealing with a whole bunch of
> issues that are artifacts of using files, when what you really wanted to do
> is compare some objects.  Perhaps you could pickle to a string and compare
> the strings?  At least this avoids most of the file system complications.

Sounds like a good idea.  I am only in need of that functionality for 
unit testing, so I guess pickle to StringIO is a nice idea.

Thx
Nicolas


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar 24 13:19:44 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:19:44 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <mailman.228.1079953486.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3r8c6$2b5g98$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <eppstein-86E60F.10194424032004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <c3r8c6$2b5g98$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>,
 "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:

> Eyal Lotem wrote:
> > You are not supposed to be looking for it, IMHO.
> > Generators follow the Sequence protocol and are to be
> > treated as sequences.  Thus, you should simply make it
> > clear in the
> > function-name/conventions/interface-documentation that
> > the function returns a sequence.  Whether that
> > sequence is implemented via a generator or not is an
> > implementation detail.
> 
> That may be true when you're *using* the generator, but
> when looking at the implementation, it can be helpful
> if you're warned ahead of time that you're wading into
> generator code, to get you into the right frame of
> mind.
> 
> I had that experience just the other day -- started
> reading a function, had some moments of wondering
> "how does this work?", then thought "oh, I know, I
> bet this is a generator"... skimmed through it, and
> sure enough, there was a 'yield'.

I think this can be alleviated by following a convention of using 
"Yields" as the first word of the docstring for all simple generators.  
E.g., http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/117119

Of course, that doesn't help for code not following the convention...

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 06:18:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:18:01 +0100
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <c2phta$e67$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Josef Meile wrote:

>> Is there something missing you think should be there?  There's no
>> particular
>> reason a PEP needs to be continually updated.  In particular, notions of
>> good Python style haven't changed a lot over the past ten years.
>> 
>> Skip
> I agree, those are good guidelines, but I don't agree with:
> 
> - Don't compare boolean values to True or False using == (bool
>    types are new in Python 2.3):
> 
>          No:  if greeting == True:
>          Yes: if greeting:
> 
> What would happened if you do:
> 
>  >>> a='test'
>  >>> if a.find('foo'):
> ...    print "foo was found"
> ...
> foo was found
> 
> I think you should never do a direct boolean comparison. Instead
> one should use a more elaborate boolean expresion like:
> 
>  >>> a='test'
>  >>> if a.find('foo') >= 0:
> ...    print "foo was found"
> ...
> 
> 
> You will have problems specially if you come from languages where
> values minor than zero are considered to be false. I think the
> previous sintax is ambiguous.

I think your find() example has nothing to do with 

if boolVal == True:

versus

if boolVal:

though it might be a pitfall for people coming from languages with 1-based
indices. If you discard the index it returns anyway, you could use the
clearer

if "foo" in a:

instead.

As to the original issue, I disagree with you and prefer the recommended
style. I find it natural even for non-booleans:

greeting = "Hi"
if greeting:
    print greeting

If you expect a boolean value and fear that you may erroneously encounter
something else, the value == True test will not be sufficient anyway,
because treating, say, "Hi" as False may be an error, too. It's

if greeting == True:
   ...
elif greeting == False:
   pass
else:
   raise AssertionError, "greeting must be True or False"

versus

assert greeting in (True, False), "greeting must be True or False"
if greeting:
   ...

then, and again the last wins at in my eyes.

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  4 14:45:41 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:45:41 +0100
Subject: tkFileDialog.askopenfilename
References: <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c28115$pqp$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Sonia Rovner wrote:

> tkFileDialog.askopenfilename only allows you to open an existing file.
>  I want to allow my users to enter a new filename in the dialog box.
> Can anyone help?

Seems you are out of luck:

"The procedures tk_getOpenFile and tk_getSaveFile pop up a dialog box for
the user to select a file to open or save. The tk_getOpenFile command is
usually associated with the Open command in the File menu. Its purpose is
for the user to select an existing file only. If the user enters an
non-existent file, the dialog box gives the user an error prompt and
requires the user to give an alternative selection. If an application
allows the user to create new files, it should do so by providing a
separate New menu command. "

Quoted from http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/getOpenFile.htm

Peter



From ruse at webmail.co.za  Fri Mar  5 06:29:00 2004
From: ruse at webmail.co.za (goose)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 03:29:00 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ff82ae1b.0403050329.4568b566@posting.google.com>

nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa) wrote in message news:<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae at posting.google.com>...

please dont top-post.
tia.

> These posts are like big huge neon signs that say, "I'm IGNORANT."

So is the post I am now responding to!

At the risk of offending you, are you sure that your last 3 years
as a programmer have properly equipped you to make informed
decisions like the ones you've made below?

<snipped>

> quite robust.  For instance, C is great if you are going to develop
> software for 1 platform.  However, if you are developing software for
> multiple platforms, Java is a better choice.

Pick a fairly simple application ... lets say a tic-tac-toe
game. Are you certain that the game implemented in java will
run on more platforms than the same game implemented in ANSI
C?

C has many many weaknesses; platform dependence is /not/ one of
them. 

<snipped stuff I am in agreement with>

goose,


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar 11 11:56:35 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 08:56:35 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Updated releases of pyparsing - 1.1.1
Message-ID: <740c1dd4.0403110856.5f2796c3@posting.google.com>

(Sorry if this is a duplicate, my newsreader is behaving strangely. 
I'm trying posting thru Google Groups as an alternative.)

pyparsing 1.1.1 Released
----------------------
A quick minor update, to correct a critical bug introduced in 1.1 
(thanks Seo Sanghyeon for spotting this!), and add backward compatible
support for Python 2.2.  Also includes a simple example of extracting 
data from a web page's HTML source.

Download pyparsing at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyparsing/.

-- Paul McGuire


pyparsing 1.1 Announcement
------------------------
With the accumulation of enhancements since 1.0, a minor change in the
parse action interface, and the completion of validate() (one of my 
last outstanding "to-do" items), it seems appropriate to finally bump 
the minor rev level of pyparsing.  pyparsing version 1.1 has been 
released for download from SourceForge, at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyparsing/

New features in 1.1:
- simplified parse actions - parse action functions now only need to 
return modified parse tokens, not a tuple of location and tokens - the
example code has been updated to reflect the new style (Old style is
deprecated, but still supported for backward compatibility.)
- added validate() method to parse elements, to help identify 
improperly recursive grammar definitions
- better str() output for parse elements, more similar to traditional 
BNF notation

Fixed bugs:
- infinite loop in oneOf if the input string contains a duplicate
token
- quoted strings do not span newlines (bug introduced in 1.0.6)
- bad matching when specifying a results name on an Optional parse
element

Thanks to all who have tried out this module, and have forwarded their
comments and remarks!

-- Paul McGuire


From adharma at cs.usfca.edu  Thu Mar 25 19:56:30 2004
From: adharma at cs.usfca.edu (Amol Dharmadhikari)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:56:30 -0800
Subject: How do I get the reference of window in DOM?
In-Reply-To: <f0667546.0403251405.29c16342@posting.google.com>
References: <f0667546.0403251405.29c16342@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40637FBE.10307@cs.usfca.edu>

Hi-

Sam Kong wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> Now I know how to get dom of ie using the following code.
> 
> from win32com.client import DispatchEx
> ie = DispatchEx('internetexplorer.application')
> ie.visible = 1
> ie.navigate(url)
> dom = ie.Document
> 
> My question is that how do I get the window reference from dom?
> 
> I want to close the ie from my Python code.
> I don't know how to access the window object.
> 
> ie.Window is not the answer.

If you want to close the window from the python code,
ie.quit()

should do it.

> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sam

Amol



From guillermo.fernandez at epfl.ch  Wed Mar 10 10:08:51 2004
From: guillermo.fernandez at epfl.ch (Guillermo Fernandez Castellanos)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:08:51 +0100
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <irr3c.47638$Ak2.14869626@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
References: <mailman.178.1078846905.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<xqxoer5j33g.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
	<irr3c.47638$Ak2.14869626@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <404f2f83$1@epflnews.epfl.ch>

> Or use the Emacs Code Browser ( http://ecb.sourceforge.net/ ).
I had a look to Emacs Code Browser, but did not find any support of python. How 
did you do to support it?

Thanks,

G.


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 20:37:33 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:37:33 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c35lug$sdi$4@news.service.uci.edu>

>   >>> a = (1,2)
>   >>> b = (1,2)
>   >>> a is b
>   False
>   >>> a = "12"
>   >>> b = "12"
>   >>> a is b
>   True

Unless you care whether two names point to the same object, don't use 
'is'.  Instead compare for equality with '=='.  That should work like 
you want it to:
 >>> a = (1,2)
 >>> b = (1,2)
 >>> a == b
True
 >>> a = "12"
 >>> b = "12"
 >>> a == b
True

It will also handle the cases that Andrew points out.

  - Josiah


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar  1 16:22:04 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:22:04 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
In-Reply-To: <Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I've wondered, though, whether there couldn't be a different 
> character instead of a ',' to alter the behavior of print. Maybe a 
> trailing '+' to indicate that what follows is to concatenate 
> directly. 
> 
> And yet I've been able to work around that little annoyance; it's not 
> that there is no way to format output the way you want.


It seems that you are saying:

print "hello ", "world" +   #-> "hello world"

That looks like "magic syntax", and should rightfully return a syntax 
error, because + already has a meaning for most all data types in 
Python.  Changing the behavior of print when a syntax error is present, 
is the wrong thing to do.

The right thing to do (if it were to happen at all) is to make 
fileobject.softspace "sticky" under some condition, perhaps after a call 
to fileobject.SetSoftSpace(False) (which doesn't currently exist).

  - Josiah


From ericreed at mrreed.com  Thu Mar 11 23:51:11 2004
From: ericreed at mrreed.com (Eric Reed)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:51:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mouse wheel?
Message-ID: <4799.68.124.23.9.1079067071.squirrel@webmail1.hrnoc.net>

Hello,

I'm very new to python coding.  I have successfully read mouse clicks
using the curses library, but I'd like to read wheel movements as well.

a) Is this possible using curses?
b) If not, what's the next best way to do this?

Thanks,

Eric.



From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar  9 13:26:26 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:26:26 -0700
Subject: Utterly OT:[Was Re: Need better string methods]
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
	<Xns94A4C17566601rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <7l2s405cc6kset45domrj00imd5l4maoqh@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:59:28 GMT, rzed <rzantow at ntelos.net> wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in
>news:0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc at 4ax.com: 
>
>> [...]     Here is a typical line of garbage from a
>> statefile revision control system (simplified to eliminate some
>> items that pose no new challenges):
>> 
>> line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson 
>> \n" 
>> 
>> The problem is to break this into its component parts, and
>> eliminate spaces and other gradoo. 
>
>[UTTERLY OFFTOPIC QUESTION]:
>This "gradoo" of which you speak ... where did you learn the word? I 
>only ask, because I know (and use) "gradeau", pronounced like I 
>imagine "gradoo" would be pronounced, to mean miscellaneous cruft or 
>garbage ... but I've only ever heard it used by a small group of 
>people who, as far as I know, originated the use of the word in Green 
>Bay, Wisconsin, in the mid-1970's.

Actually, I didn't know it was a real word until I saw the discussion
of 'gradeau' in this thread.  I've never seen it in print, but I heard
it used by a construction supervisor in Gainesville, Florida in the
mid-eighties. How's that for memory :>)  It sound like a contraction
of "gratuitous doo-doo", you know, the kind of doo-doo that George
Bush the First is famous for. :>)

Somehow it seems to uniquely fit the kind of "cruft and garbage" I'm
seeing as a challenge for our string methods.

-- Dave



From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 17 13:26:07 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:26:07 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g05h505tguqj25kg5kjmspaban47vh7hra@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:10:59 -0500, "Ellinghaus, Lance"
<lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote:
>
>>Reload doesn't work the way most people think
>>it does: if you've got any references to the old module,
>>they stay around. They aren't replaced.
>
>>It was a good idea, but the implementation simply
>>doesn't do what the idea promises.
>
>I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
>would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()? 

>>> pzfuncs
<open file 'PZfuncs.py', mode 'r' at 0x00A86160>
>>> exec pzfuncs
>>> p3
-2

--- Edit PZfuncs.py here ---

>>> pzfuncs.seek(0)
>>> exec pzfuncs
>>> p3
-3
>>> 

The disadvantage compared to reload() is that you get direct
references to *all* the new objects in your current namespace.  With
reload() you get only a reference to the reloaded module.  With the
proposed super_reload (at least the version I would like) you get no
new references in your current namespace, just updates on the
references that are already there.

Hmm.  Maybe we could reload(), then loop over the available names, and
replace any that exist in the current namespace.

-- Dave



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 17:47:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:47:26 -0600
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16479.27902.268179.900252@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    AdSR> On other note, regarding the initial subject of this thread: Is
    AdSR> there going to be any voting poll about the syntax in foreseeable
    AdSR> future? My preferred style would be the "standard" one proposed in
    AdSR> the PEP.

It will probably be a BDFL pronouncement.  After all, that's why he's the
BDFL.  I have a modified version of PEP 318 in my mailbox I need to read,
edit and check in.  I'll try to get to it later today.

Skip



From scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com  Mon Mar  8 18:52:31 2004
From: scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com (Scott Brady Drummonds)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:52:31 -0800
Subject: Initializing Member Variables
References: <c2i9vi$mip$1@news01.intel.com>
	<20040308143642868-0500@news.shentel.net>
Message-ID: <c2j0vv$46t$1@news01.intel.com>


"Francis Avila" <francisgavila at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20040308143642868-0500 at news.shentel.net...
> This may help:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html

Four great responses to my question, and this link was the most detailed.
Thank you so much for helping straighten me out!

Scott




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 13 12:47:43 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:47:43 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <c2v3hn$fbg$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.358.1079189729.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<01b650lrd53rbab3uis6dlqv38u52pk0e8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <nOH4c.32586$hG.455793@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Gon?alo Rodrigues" <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message
news:01b650lrd53rbab3uis6dlqv38u52pk0e8 at 4ax.com...
[snip]
> I don't know a thing about perl, but by your description, strict
> pragma is to solve a problem *in perl that does not exist in Python*.
> If you use a variable before declaring (I'm using your terminology --
> it's not the most correct in the Python world, though) Python just
> raises an exception, e.g.
>
> >>> #No var declared... exception raised:
> >>> print var
[snip]

There's another class of problem:

# trivial example based on http://io.kicks-ass.net/LocalVariables
class A:
    def __init__(self):
        self.area = None
    def square(self, side):
        self.arae = side * side     # spelling mistake creates new attribute
    def circle(self, radius):
        self.area = 3.14 * radius * radius

a = A()
a.circle(1)
print a.area  # 3.14 -> ok
a.square(4)
print a.area  # 3.14 -> unintended


Having never used pychecker, I can't say for certain, but I expect it will
catch problems of this sort, and, as someone else suggested, unit tests
should also nip this in the bud. Still, while I don't advocate it, I would
not
be adverse to *optionally* letting the language impose some form of
distinction between variable creation and variable update - which is what
"use strict" allows. Whether you use it or not is left up to your own tastes
and/or discretion - you're not forced to declare your variables if you don't
want to (although you will be forcing others to read it, if you do). But, if
you do want to, you can, and the language will help enforce this choice.

So, hypothetically, you could introduce an optional let statement:

use strict  # or, from __future__ import let, or nag, or whatever
class A:
    def __init__(self):
        let self.area = None         # uses 'let' for variable creation
    def square(self, side):
        self.arae = side * side     # Exception, undeclared variable "arae"
    def circle(self, radius):
        self.area = 3.14 * radius * radius

Now the language would catch this error in your code for you - no need
to run outside programs (pychecker, your test suite) to find something
so trivial. You'd have a whole lot of 'let's cluttering up your code - but,
hey,
you asked for it ... (of course, I didn't ask to have to read it - but
that's beside
the point - or, is that the point?)


Still, there are issues. For instance:

use strict
class B:
    def __init__(self, **kwds):
         self.__dict__.update(kwds)  # I "know" one key/value will be
"b:'B'"
    def baz(self):
        print self.b    # so, I'll use it here.
                              # Not best practice, perhaps, but whatever ...
b = B(b="B")
b.baz()  # Exception?


So, here we're adding attributes dynamically, one of which is/will be
self.b.
But, self.b was not explicitly created (there's no "let self.b = 'B'"). Can
I
use self.b? I wouldn't expect so. I imagine the answer in this case would be
to not use strict.

There are probably other problems besides restricting dynamism and adding
clutter, but I'm sure others will be along shortly to point those out.

Sean






From nelson at monkey.org  Mon Mar  1 12:17:46 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:17:46 GMT
Subject: Image width, height.
References: <mailman.11.1078141097.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<cpafzcs366g.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<just-D6D502.17111101032004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cpaad30qyf9.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Just <just at xs4all.nl> writes:
> PIL is such a Python package. It doesn't load the entire image if all 
> you want to know are the dimensions.

Just goes to show you - if you want the right answer on the net, post
a wrong answer and then everyone will correct you :-) Sorry for the
misinformation.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 12 09:52:11 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:52:11 -0500
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com><mailman.290.1079046207.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405148CB.1030103@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <c2siqo$781$1@sea.gmane.org>

<user at domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:405148CB.1030103 at domain.invalid...
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> For list comps which cannot have break,
>> it is an artifact which may disappear in 2.4.
>
> If I understand you,

I don't think you did.  The 'may' only applies to list comprehensions.  The
discussion last fall was whether the index names(s) within a list
comprehension should be bound outside (after) the list comp.  It is
something of an accident of the current implementation that they are.  The
issue arose in the development of generator comprehensions, in which it was
clear that the within-generator variables would *not* be bound outside of
the produced generator.  Bret Cannon's summary
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-10-16_2003-11-15.html#generator-expressions-list-comp-s-older-brother
is this:

---------------
A quick example is:

(x for x in range(10) if x%2)

returns an iterator that returns the odd numbers from 0 to 10. This make
list comprehensions just syntactic sugar for passing a generator expression
to list() (note how extra parentheses are not needed):

list(x for x in range(10) is x%2)

Having list comprehensions defined this way also takes away the dangling
item variable for the 'for' loop. Using that dangling variable is now
discouraged and will be made illegal at some point.
----------------

Terry J. Reedy






From menceur at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 17 11:01:07 2004
From: menceur at hotmail.com (M.M.)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 08:01:07 -0800
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
Message-ID: <6b4509ac.0403170801.79aa64b7@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

The Java community is working on the adoption of Groovy as a JCP
standard (http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=241).
Groovy is a dynamic/agile language for Java
(http://groovy.codehaus.org/).

IMO, it will be better to support the Jython project. Because Jython
exists, it's very useful and powerful. In fact, I think java community
want to have its own "scripting" language because java community is
not open-minded enough and will not accept to use something for the
outside.

I have post my opinion there (author Mouloud):
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=24525
and the replies only reverse the argument : I'm too religious and not
open-minded.

I think I'm not alone when I say "I use Java, Python and Jython and I
think Jython is very nice for Java scripting".

Thanks,
Mouloud.


From michael at foord.net  Thu Mar  4 04:24:03 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 01:24:03 -0800
Subject: Gadfly ????
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>

Gadfly looks like an interesting database system for python. I am
working on a couple of projects that may benefit from using a database
(on the other hand, these days - is there really aproblem with using
dictionaries that are a couple of meg in size and searching through
those ??).

One of these projects is a customer feedback database that will be
installed on our intranet - so I was looking for a pure python
solution.....

I thought Gadfly was a pure python implementation - however when I
download the package it looks like it's optimised to work with
kjBuckets and kwParsing.

*However* - there isn't a pre-built version for windows (my test
platform ;-) for python 2.3 - and there are scant and confusing
references to it on the web......

Is kwBuckets still being 'developed', is gadfly worthwhile without it,
has anyone else compiled it for python 2.3 ??

Regards,


Fuzzy


http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Tue Mar  2 23:50:21 2004
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:20:21 +0530
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oueksar0tu.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "W" == W Borgert <debacle at debian.org> writes:

> Hi,
> I'm not new to Python, but new to databases and PostgreSQL.
> I like to write a PostgreSQL client application (not code
> running inside of the RDBMS), and Debian has four modules:

> python2.3-pgsql - A Python DB-API 2.0 interface to PostgreSQL v7.x
> python2.3-popy - module providing access to PostgreSQL from Python2.3
> python2.3-psycopg - Python 2.3 module for PostgreSQL
> python2.3-pygresql - PostgreSQL module for Python

I prefer the first one - it's BSD licensed, actively maintained and
supported. It's also very compatible with the python SQLite binding which I
use regularly.

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 11 10:35:11 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:35:11 -0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
	<1050uf4afdkrje5@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <10511pf66mv7j4d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1050uf4afdkrje5 at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I tend to agree, but for slightly different reasons. Lambdas
>are a means of in-lining a function definition. However, they
>are so restricted that we constantly get suggestions for
>"improving" them by adding more syntax.
>
>Given the restrictions, I see the natural growth path as leading
>to a callable instance or a bound method, not a module level
>function. Module level functions are a distraction; usually you
>want to interface with an object, and module level functions make
>that very difficult.
>
>The other reason to avoid lambdas is the DRY principle:
>Don't Repeat Yourself. Most uses of lambdas I've seen
>lead to duplication in anything larger than a toy program.
>
>What I'd really like is for all of the instructional material
>with lambdas to just magically vanish and be replaced by
>instructional material that does whatever it is in proper
>object oriented fashion, using bound methods for callbacks.
>Relegate lambda to a sidebar.
			.
			.
			.
I like what you've written, and the way you've written it,
better than what I had.  It's absolutely more Pythonic to
emphasize clarity, expressiveness, AND instance association
as better-localized binding.

That sounds like a project:  sanitization of introductory 
materials for misleading lambdas.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 30 23:08:29 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:08:29 -0600
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <002e01c41551$08147830$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
	<000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<001701c41530$747c8e70$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.36554.899992.486386@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<002e01c41551$08147830$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
Message-ID: <16490.17469.616646.301341@montanaro.dyndns.org>


(away from my mail...)

    >> Every language whose objects can form cycles has to deal with the
    >> issue of reclaiming those cycles in the presence of destructors.

    Roger> I am not denying that is an issue.  The problem in this case is
    Roger> that because there *could* be cycles, file/socket handles have to
    Roger> be manually closed.  The currently library goes out of its way to
    Roger> do so, together with a makefile method (a kind of dup) to deal
    Roger> with ownership issues.

Much of that code was written before HTTP/1.1 persistence was available, so
it's not all that odd to find close() calls after each request.  Perhaps a
little analysis would convince people that the chance for cycles is either
low enough or nonexistent so that explicity close() calls could be dispensed
with.  If cycles are indeed possible (or likely), perhaps weak references
could be used to mitigate the problem.  (I suspect much of that code was
also written before the presence of weak refs in the library.)

Skip



From kaz at ashi.footprints.net  Wed Mar  3 15:01:25 2004
From: kaz at ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 12:01:25 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cf333042.0403031201.1f849690@posting.google.com>

nobody_u_should_no at yahoo.com (nobody) wrote in message news:<165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04 at posting.google.com>...
> FACT 2: No one but a small clique of fanatics likes it
> 
> No matter how odd or perverted the cause, there will be
> followers. In fact, the odder the cause, the fewer, but
> more fervent its followers are. 

But nobody is more fervent than lunatics whose membership applications
were *rejected* by imaginary little fanatic cliques. Their cause, in
fact, usually has just one follower.


From gandreas at no.reply  Mon Mar 29 10:16:29 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:16:29 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com> <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <gandreas-29DDCC.09162829032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:

> > Not quite the same, as with Prothon it looks like it always relates to
> > the self object, whereas in a `with' clause you can make it relates to
> > any object you wish.
> 
> Just to confuse the issue, I'd like to point out that in Prothon, the
> leading dot does always relate to the self object, but the 'with' clause
> sets the self object to any object you want at any time.  So both statements
> above are true at once.  The concept of changing the self object on the fly
> is somewhat bizzare, much like changing the protoype on the fly, which you
> can also do.
> 
Out of curiousity (and on a somewhat related topic), how do you handle 
"class variables" - i.e., variables that exist in the "super" object, 
and should be accessable by all "sub objects"?

Accessing them is straightforward - for "foo.bar" if foo doesn't have 
bar, but it inherits from an object that does have bar, you get that, 
but what about foo.bar on the LHS of an expression?  So does "foo.bar = 
5" add a "bar" slot to "foo" or does it change bar in the parent object?

Self had a full blown system for variable access & setting, combined 
with its multiple inheritance for some pretty interesting abilities 
(essentially, all "getters" and "setters" were functions, so you could 
have something be a constant by only providing a getter, etc...)

NewtonScript actually had two different assignment operators "=" and 
":=" which determined how it behaved (though it got complex because it 
sort of had multiple inheritance - everything inherited from _two_ 
parents, the "real" parent and a "_proto", which seems strange, but it 
made sense in the runtime of the Newton, but that's a bit off topic).


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 14 15:06:16 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:06:16 -0500
Subject: converting %20 to spaces
References: <f046efac.0403141156.3135c1d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1059esblsa2u59@news.supernews.com>


<ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f046efac.0403141156.3135c1d9 at posting.google.com...
> Hi
> I am storing the attachments in files on the server.User can see all
> the attachments & view any of them.
> My application shows the attachment correctly for file which have no
> spaces in their name.
> But it doesnt works for file names with spaces.As the spaces are
> converted to %20.It gives an error:No such file or directory.
> How do I avoid converting of spaces to %20??
> Also one more problem creeped up.
> I am using <input type=file> method for uploading attachmnets..Then I
> create a file on the server & copy the contents to that file.When I
> display the attachments the text files & html files are displayed
> correctly but the image files are distorted.
> Do I need to escape sequences or do something else?
> Please help

Look at the quote() and unquote() functions in the urllib module.

John Roth




From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 04:36:46 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 01:36:46 -0800
Subject: attachment
References: <f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9@posting.google.com>
	<f046efac.0403060045.7ae84d33@posting.google.com>
	<4049ad99$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<f046efac.0403070500.41935620@posting.google.com>
	<404b2680$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403080136.1f947b06@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<404b2680$0$564$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> > User can submit any attachment and can view all the attachments
> > submitted by other users.
> > Attachment contents can be anything.
> > So where should I store the attachment 1)In database 2)In a file on
> > server
> 
> You give too little information to provide a conclusive answer.
> 
> However,
> 
> Putting stuff in a database can be complicated (BLOBs and stuff)
> but usually takes care of concurrency control (i.e. accessing the
> data by multiple users at the same time; everyone should only
> see THEIR file(s)).
> 
> Storing stuff in the filesystem is by far the easiest. You don't
> have to set up and access a database. But you DO have to make sure
> that each file is uniquely named (you don't want me to overwrite
> your 'curriculum.doc' now do you) and probably have to do
> some concurrency control yourself.
> Also you have to think of a way to identify which files belong
> to which user, and make sure that user A cannot access user B's files.
> 
> --Irmen

Hi
Sorry for the little information I provided.
In the application the  user can't edit or remove his or any other
user's attachment.What he can do is only add new attachments or view
the attachments present.I already have a databse where I have stored
the information about the
users present.So it will be no problem to store info about
attachment.Is it a good idea to store attachments in database??
But by hearing the problems I have to face with files like you said I
think database is a godd option


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Mar 16 04:18:13 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:18:13 +0200
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
In-Reply-To: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4056C655.4000409@zoran.com>

Hello Pus,

> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
> of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
> programming.
> Is there anybody who can suggest me where to find what i'm searching?
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
http://www.python.org/topics/learn/

HTH.
Miki


From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 22 15:18:31 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:18:31 -0700
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <fd5u50lqcbhtfr1r92n7lahmk3mn1npv5n@4ax.com>
	<mailman.244.1079980912.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ghu50hj5bnq79ro73gk6fbr2llevjvlk0@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:41:46 -0500, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>
wrote:

>[David MacQuigg]
>> ...
>> I'm still curious as to the answer to my very simple and basic
>> question:
>
>It is basic, but there's nothing simple about it.
>
>> Are there any examples that show a *non-subjective* difference in a
>> physically meaningful result between one PRNG and another?
>
>Yes, but different RNGs have different weaknesses, and whether the
>weaknesses of a specific RNG *matter* to you depend on detailed analysis of
>the specific app you have in mind.
>
>The primary weakness of linear congruential generators (still the most
>common kind) is dramatically illustrated all over the web; e.g., look at the
>3D plot at:
>
>    http://www.unf.edu/ccec/cis/CIShtml/RANDUinfo.html
>
>If you need to generate "random" points in 3D space, does it matter that the
>particular LCG plotted there systematically generates points that fall on
>one of 15 planes, no matter how many points you generate?  There's no answer
>to that short of analyzing the specifics of what you're trying to accomplish
>by generating those points.  For example, if your app relies on the triples
>generated being approximately equally distributed throughout a 3D cube, that
>particular LCG is an obvious disaster for that particular application.  But
>if your app only cares that the projection of the points onto the x axis is
>approximately equally distributed, probably no problem, despite that it's
>obvious "by eyeball" that there's nothing even remotely "random" about their
>distribution in 3D space.
>
>You're not going to get an easy answer.  Well, here's one:  the Mersenne
>Twister in Python 2.3 is probably the best and most widely tested fast PRNG
>in existence now, and has provably good equidistribution properties in high
>dimensions (a plot like the one above would have no visible patterns if the
>Twister had been used instead).

This is the first good answer I have heard, and it has changed my
thinking on this question.  I understand now that the problem is not
just something that might be found in the tenth decimal place.  The
clustering of random points into very thin planes could radically
affect a simulation depending on the distances between those points.

The problem I am working on (statistical simulation of electronic
circuits) involves a large number of 1D distributions, but with
carefully controlled correlations between these distributions.  We are
probably just lucky that the PRNG we are using has not caused a
noticable problem, but seeing just one clear example like the above
has made me decide to be much more cautious in selecting a PRNG.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

-- Dave



From Spam at ivonet.nl  Sat Mar 13 18:26:14 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:26:14 +0100
Subject: Spyce Users out there?
Message-ID: <40539882$0$15631$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

I use a lot of Spice code to tailor my site.

Are there others? and what is your experience?
Is there a better alternative and why???

-- 
Cheerz,
Ivo.
http://IvoNet.nl


============================




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Mar 10 20:08:39 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:08:39 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <onq4i1-6ku.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> @x @y @z        -- short for instance variables in a method definition

The explicit self in front of accesses is what bugged me the most when
I first started with Python.  (I liked the indentation.  All my
C/C++/Java code is appropriately indented anyway, so the Python
rules didn't change my indentation style, and only removed now
superfluous punctuation).

But now when I go back to C++ code, the lack of self/this bugs
me.  I often expect to not compile since I am not to sure where
it is resolving a name to.  (Try writing MFC code on PocketPC
sometime - the layers of abstractions and inheritance get to be
fun).

Of course I could use this->x in the code, but that is non-standard
and not something I would want to inflict on someone who has to
maintain the code.

   explicit is better than implicit!

Roger




From marco at bubke.de  Sun Mar 21 11:53:11 2004
From: marco at bubke.de (Marco Bubke)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:53:11 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
Message-ID: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Hi

I have read some mail on the dev mailing list about PEP 318 and find the new
Syntax really ugly.

def foo[staticmethode](x, y): pass

I call this foo(1, 2), this isn't really intuitive to me!

Also I don't like the brackets. 

def foo(x, y)[staticmethode]: pass

are better but still I used to see [] as list or access operator and the
don't? The original Syntax looks much cleaner to me.

def foo(x, y) as staticmethode: pass

Define foo with arguments x and y as staticmethode.

Is Python now C++? Mabe I miss something why this syntax is wrong.

regards

Marco


From qp at al.net  Sun Mar 14 23:14:31 2004
From: qp at al.net (Qp)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:14:31 -0500
Subject: Seeking advice on GUI code architecture
References: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<slrnc5a9on.4ib.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <v4a5c.6160$CI3.4676@fe03.usenetserver.com>

OK, I've heard briefly about MVC.  I'll take a look and see if I can find
any examples of that, particularily in network client development.

Thanks,
Qp

"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in
message news:slrnc5a9on.4ib.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:29:08 -0500, Qp wrote:
> > My problem is this:  how do you keep your GUI code seperate from as much
> > underlying code as possible?
>
> In the last decade, the "pattern language" method of formalising common
> architectural solutions has been increasingly popular in programming.
> It is especially popular in things like interface programming, where the
> architecture chosen has a dramatic effect on the efficacy and efficiency
> of the program.
>
> What you want may be the "Model-View-Controller" pattern.  Others may
> suggest other patterns.  You would be well advised to read up on current
> common patterns in interface design.
>
> --
>  \         "I think a good gift for the President would be a chocolate |
>   `\   revolver. And since he's so busy, you'd probably have to run up |
> _o__)           to him real quick and hand it to him."  -- Jack Handey |
> Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>





From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Sun Mar 14 14:43:15 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:43:15 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <67efcd4ccaf87ddf3c640aad5517017a@news.teranews.com>
	<mailman.359.1079189987.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7de2e74a623ae9f3ff3fe9ae4e1ec2b4@news.teranews.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:59:42 +0000 (GMT), Premshree Pillai
<premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> --- Dang Griffith <google0 at lazytwinacres.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:07:50 +0000 (GMT), Premshree
>> Pillai
>> <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>> 
>> > --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
>> >Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed,
>> and
>> >so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
>> >vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is
>> there
>> >something like it in Python?
>> 
>> No, but you can use pychecker to get similar
>> results.
>> 
>> >Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
>> >important requirement in a language?
>> 
>> Not really.  Forced variable initialization is
>> what's important.
>> Unlike C, et al, and Perl, variables don't have a
>> default 
>> initial value.  If you try reference a variable that
>> hasn't been
>> initialized ("bound to a value", in python lingo),
>> python raises a
>> NameError exception.
>> 
>>     --dang
>> p.s.
>> I know technically Perl initializes to 'undef', but
>> it's magically
>> treated as 0 or an empty string, depending on
>> context, so the
>> effect is much the same.
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 
>
>Not forcing variable initialization does have its
>problems. Here's what I mean: http://www.livejournal.com/users/premshree/10624.html?thread=53376#t53376

Yes, I agree.  That is one reason I like Python.
It has forced variable *initialization*.  You cannot use a variable
that has not been initialized.  In fact, the act of initializing a
variable is what makes the variable exist.

I do not think forced *declaration* is important, except perhaps in
C/++/#/Java, Pascal, Ada, etc.  

I see the typo in the pseudo-code example.  PyChecker will catch that.
I typed in your code, converted it to Python, and ran pychecker on it:
    Warnings...
    bluesmoon.py:12: Local variable (my_varaible) not used

    --dang


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Mar 26 21:54:02 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:54:02 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <KzOZAls/KDGI089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <4064C129.1B8C937C at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone wrote:
>
>> Anyway GvR just posted on the python-dev saying this:
>>
>> ==
>> No, I want to reserve the leading dot for attribute assignment to a
>> special object specified by a 'with' statement, e.g.
>>
>> with self:
>>     .foo = [1, 2, 3]
>>     .bar(4, .foo)
>> ==
>>
>> So another feature of this prothon (and a major one) is going to be a
>> python one
>> too.
>
>Not quite the same, as with Prothon it looks like it always relates to
>the self object, whereas in a `with' clause you can make it relates to
>any object you wish.

   Prothon seems to have a `with' clause, which overrides
the default thus:

    .name           # refers to the name attribute of the self object
...
    with other:
        .name       # refers to other.name


though I won't know for sure until I've found a copy of
MSVCR70.DLL


        Regards.        Mel.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Wed Mar 10 16:25:29 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:25:29 -0700
Subject: Iterating over tuple entries in a list
In-Reply-To: <20040310210922.GA477@tyrone.slothrop.xx>
References: <20040310210922.GA477@tyrone.slothrop.xx>
Message-ID: <200403101425.29270.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Wednesday 10 March 2004 02:09 pm, Dirk Zimmermann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have the following problem:
>
> I have a list with tuples in it, looking like this:
>
> myList = [(1.1, "file1"), (1.2,"file2), (1.9, "file3")]
>
> (I want to store a number calculated from a file together with the
> file.) Than I want to use functions expecting a list of floats. Is there
> an easy way to slice myList? I know, that:

floats = [number for number,filename in myList]



From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 03:42:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:42:00 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104vg6f87k7gb19@corp.supernews.com>
	<hciv40hf01o3bkbm7ftk2833ofhko8653l@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:13:25 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
wrote:

>Pierre Rouleau  <prouleau at impathnetworks.com> wrote:			.
>>I was trained as an EE myself and started programming in assembler on 
>>microprocessors, then in C , then in C++, reading, reading, reading,....
>>Just the mere fact that you are talking about lambda shows that you know 
>>what it is, as I do now and as people learning Python will know when 
>>they use it.  They'll learn, that why they are technical professionals, no?

I agree.  Lamdas are no big deal once you get past some obfuscation
and understand they perform a very simple function.  Of course, both
of us could be missing something important.  There is a lot of deep
theory behind the lambda calculus.  While drawing a tentative
conclusion, we have to always keep an open mind to something new.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:13:25 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
wrote:
> For more on what lambda means to me, and others, see
> <URL: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeFP/Lambda/Ch/00.Intro.html >
> or
> <URL: http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.07/07.05/LambdaCalculus/ >
> or
> <URL: http://www.alcyone.com/software/church/ > or ...

This is an impressive body of knowledge, but unless I see how it is
going to help me write some code, I won't have time to study it.  My
understanding of lambda functions is simply that they are a way to
squeeze functions into a tight space:

list_of_funcs = [(lambda x: 2**x), (lambda x: 3**x), (lambda x: 4**x)]

If you are not concerned about space, simply use normal defs:

def f2(x): return 2**x
def f3(x): return 3**x
def f4(x): return 4**x
list_of_funcs = [f2, f3, f4]

Is there any other reason in Python to use lambdas?

-- Dave



From http  Sun Mar 14 01:42:00 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 22:42:00 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for Random module
References: <7xhdwsjpib.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mFR4c.7018$Eg3.5667@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7x7jxo0w1z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

David Lees <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> writes:
> NameError: global name 'newrand' is not defined
> 
> Is this a problem with my Python installation or something defining
> newrand that you forgot to include?

Oops, editing error on my part.  Sorry.  I originally called the class
"newrand" and then changed it to sharandom, but missed updating that
spot and it still worked when I tested it because the old newrand
class was still in the interpreter :(.

Anyway, it's fixed now, you can re-download, or just edit newrand to
say sharandom.  Thanks.



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  9 18:21:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:21:20 +0100
Subject: Is this a bug?
References: <4cc8f8db.0403091415.e606e29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2ljhh$up2$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Carolina Feher wrote:

>>>> def f(a):
> ...     return 5
> ...
>>>> class A(list):
> ...     g = f
> ...     def __new__(cls):
> ...             c = list.__new__(cls, [1, 2])
> ...             c.g()
> ...             return c
> ...
>>>> a = A()
>>>> a
> []
> 
> Why is an empty list returned?

Because for lists the __init__ method does the initialization:
>>> class A(list):
...     def __init__(self):
...             list.__init__(self, [1,2])
...
>>> A()
[1, 2]

whereas for tuples that woould be too late because they're immutable. 
Therefore:

>>> class B(tuple):
...     def __new__(cls):
...             return tuple.__new__(cls, [1,2])
...
>>> B()
(1, 2)
>>>

Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 28 21:49:07 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 21:49:07 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c482r3$8hp$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3 at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I missed that. There's good precedent - it's the Pascal 'with' block,
>but better (the leading dot tells you that you're dealing with a
>'with' item rather than normal scoping rules). But - well - just
>recently, people keep telling me that indented blocks are purely about
>control flow. I keep disagreeing, but no-one has bothered agreeing
>with me so I was feeling rather lonely and miserable in this crusade
>:-(

Huh?  Where were they telling you that?  (I don't read all of c.l.py by
a long shot, 'specially when I've just gotten back from PyCon.)  From my
POV, indented blocks are about program structure and namespaces.  Saying
that ``class`` refers purely to control flow definitely misses the point.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Mar 13 04:08:01 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 11:08:01 +0200
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfsmgn7ho8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A3B9F54199AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyf65df7kua.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94A7E431CD2AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<tyfu10w68xo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<Xns94AB41289E78AJanC@213.119.4.35>
	<c2ucol$c82$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <du7oer1t8r2.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Josiah" == Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

    Josiah> Certainly the above can be streamlined with a wrapper function:

    Josiah> def foo1_2(a,b):
    Josiah> print "type 1 & 2"

    Josiah> def foo3_4(a,b):
    Josiah> print "type 3 & 4"

    Josiah> def foo(a,b):
    Josiah> dct = {(type1, type2):foo1_2,
    Josiah> (type3, type4):foo3_4}
    Josiah> return dct[type(a), type(b)](a,b)

Or in Python 2.4 (strict_type is hypothetical for now):

def foo(a,b) [typecheck(type1, type2):
        pass

def foo(a,b) [typecheck(type3, type4):
        pass

which is even nicer :-).



-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Thu Mar  4 03:53:24 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:53:24 +1300
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
Message-ID: <4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>

My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the 
name of PMW.

Good Tkinter reference:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

PMW Homepage:
http://pmw.sf.net

Advantages:
* Easily deployed on Windows, Linux and *BSD (other GUIs often
   drag the user into a sometimes difficult compilation of 3rd party
   libraries, whereas Tkinter comes standard with most distros, and
   PMW is a snack
* An extensible OO interface that quickly becomes very natural
* Reasonable footprint
* Reasonable startup time
* 100% portability - you quickly get the 'feel' for writing
   os-independent apps
* Fast learning
* Easy to make readable/intuitive code
* Well supported by Windwos EXE builders like Py2EXE and McMillan

Disadvantages:
* Slightly less advanced features - for instance, you sometimes have
   to cook up custom widgets

Cheers
David


Jonathon McKitrick wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am totally hooked on what I have learned about python.  I am going to use
> it to develop a simple data entry app I need for some financial record
> keeping.
> 
> I understand tkinter is official and simple to use, but many who use
> wxPython swear by it, and it is gaining ground.
> 
> I would like to run on any platform, but that's not critical.  What I want
> to do is support an app that will grow over time, and should look clean.  I
> don't want to spend lots of time maintaining GUI code rather than app logic.
> 
> Can anyone offer any advice?
> 
> jm

-- 

Kind regards
David

--

leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Mar  6 04:51:46 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:51:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Executing a system call
References: <mailman.29.1078511922.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc4j7sb.lvf.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:06:14 +0530 (IST), Jagarlamudi Jagadeesh <j_jagdeesh at students.iiit.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 	
> 	There are so many ways to execute a system call like,
> 		getstatusoutput()
> 
> 		os.system()
> 	
> 		fork()
> 		os.execvp()
> 
> 		using popen

And also os.spawnv*(), which unlike fork/exec work on some non-Unixes.

> 	Of all these, which is the best to use ( interms of speed and 
> resources) ?

It depends ;-) Some of these go through the shell (which may give you features
you want, or features you *don't* want). I'd say the resources wasted on
executing a shell are almost always negligable; you should probably make a
decision based on functionality instead.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@      ''If All Men Were Brothers,
\X/                algonet.se>    Would You Let One Marry Your Sister?''


From user_77 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  1 10:14:06 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:14:06 GMT
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
Message-ID: <2rI0c.175350$Po1.95713@twister.tampabay.rr.com>


"Todd7" <Nospam at please.com> wrote in message
news:Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom at 68.12.19.6...
> I am looking at learning Python, but I would like to know what its
> strengths and weaknesses are before I invest much time in learning it.  My
> first thought is what is it good for programming, however I expect an
> answer from the python newsgroup to be something like "everything".  So
> maybe a better question is what type of programming projects is Python a
> bad choice?
>
> What makes it better or worse than languages like perl, php, delphi, or
> c++?
>
> Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Todd.
>




Why NOT Python?
I'm a noob at it, but so far I love it.  It's easy to put together a program
pretty quickly using it. Also, even when I have to code something up in, say
C++, I can still put together a prototype in Python first to get a better
understanding of the problem space.  (Ya have to "...throw one away..."
anyway, so why not use Python first?)
I know this doesn't _directly_ answer your question, but it does in a way.


WR




From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Mon Mar 29 14:10:46 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:10:46 +0200
Subject: Britney Spears nude
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com> <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
	<c49rqo$2ebolk$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4a19q$rge$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

LOL       (MDR)





From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Sun Mar  7 22:52:45 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:52:45 +0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <000001c404c0$d0ec3730$0000fea9@simonxp>

This has to be the worst idea I've seen in a long time.

Breaking out of multiple nested loops of various depths is actually very
simple. Raise an exception, and catch it outside the loop.


Roger wrote:
-----------------------
What you have is what many other languages allow with integers after
break or continue statements.  For example you can do 'break 2' or
'continue 3' to break or continue out of the respective number of
enclosing for loops. (Some other languages allow you to label the loops
and then you can name the level in the break/continue statements which
is kind of what you end up doing in C)

Sadly Python doesn't allow numbers. You can write it yourself using
variables to track the looping or throwing exceptions as other posters
have shown, but it can get REALLY complicated if you want to
break/continue out of differing numbers of layers at different points.
It is also quite easy to have bugs due to oversights (been there, done
that :-)

I don't like the rewriting as it greatly complicates the code, and you
are having to write something different than what you mean in your head.
Maybe someone wants to take this on as a PEP?
-----------------------




From info at outer-court.com  Mon Mar 15 05:30:57 2004
From: info at outer-court.com (Philipp Lenssen)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 10:30:57 GMT
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
Message-ID: <c340l1$23rse7$2@ID-203055.news.uni-berlin.de>

montezum wrote:

> where can I find Paris Hilton video?

Where you find everything. In Google.

-- 
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.com


From bad_addy at no_domain.com  Wed Mar 17 17:04:32 2004
From: bad_addy at no_domain.com (Tina)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:04:32 GMT
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
References: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <QX36c.26341$%06.21748@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Thanks to both of you. I'm very much a Python newbie and the ability to make
things callable wasn't addressed too well/at all in either of the Python
books I'm learning from.

Are there any good pages for RPG related items in Python? Everything I've
seen so far has been first-person shooter type stuff. And coming from a
BASIC background, I'm falling back on some of that coding style when I know
there's a better way.




From mike at nospam.com  Thu Mar  4 16:48:39 2004
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:48:39 -0800
Subject: Debugging Python extensions
References: <c42b7031.0403041232.2941952@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2887m$s4b$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gus Tabares wrote:
> So far I have compiled a debug version of the 'pythoncore' project
> that is located in the Python sources. This has produced the
> python23_d.dll which I will use to link with my pyd.

You don't have to.

> I have a few questions after this step:
>
> 1. Do I need to compile my own version of Python2.3 to debug my pyd?

no

> 2. Do I have to name my debug pyd as filename_d.pyd?

no

> 3. Does the init function need to be named initfilename_d?

no

> I understand that .NET 2003 is not "supported" (I believe only VS6 is)

no. support code is already in cvs

> but I would think using .NET 2003 would not be much different aside
> from converting the projects to the new format.

It's straightforward:

1. use stock python.exe
2. compile (debug version) of your extension module as DLL project and name
output mymodule.dll (make sure you use initmymodule() inside.
3. in project properties set
  debugging /command >  <full path to python.exe> i.e.
c:\python23\python.exe
  debugging /command arguments > <simple test script or even -c "import
mymodule">
also usefull:
  debugging /working directory > <full path to your script>

Make sure you have mymodule.dll in the same place as test script and you are
all set.
Put breakpoints, hit run, do as usual in VS.NET.

HTH,
Mike







From myang at clarku.edu  Sat Mar 27 18:43:24 2004
From: myang at clarku.edu (myang)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:43:24 -0500
Subject: initialize a class
Message-ID: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMCELICEAA.myang@clarku.edu>

Hi,

I am trying to construct a 'point' instance with two different methods (see
the following codes). Why the second one can't work? It's strange, since
'self' refers to the newly created object, and the '=' assign a initialized
instance to it.

>>> class Point:
... 	x = 0.0
... 	y = 0.0
...
>>> def initializePoint(a,b):
... 	p = Point()
... 	p.x = a
... 	p.y = b
... 	return p
...
>>> class Ppoint(Point):
... 	def __init__(self,a,b):
... 		self = initializePoint(a,b)
...
>>> p = initializePoint(1.0,2.0)
>>> p.x
1.0
>>> p.y
2.0
>>> p = Ppoint(1.0,2.0)
>>> p.x
0.0
>>> p.y
0.0

Acutally, what I want to do is like the code above: I have a huge class in a
module, and a function to initialize instances of this class. But I want the
instance of the class to be initialized when it's created. How can I fulfill
such a task? Thanks!

Regards,
Yang




From oussoren at cistron.nl  Fri Mar 26 02:01:40 2004
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:01:40 +0100
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <40634B15.1090006@zope.com>
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<40634B15.1090006@zope.com>
Message-ID: <6E57243C-7EF3-11D8-8D1D-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>


On 25-mrt-04, at 22:11, Shane Hathaway wrote:

> Glenn Andreas wrote:
>> Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing 
>> something like:
>>    myHandlers = {
>>       "click" : def(x,y):
>>                      print "click at x,y"
>>       "enter" : def():
>>                      print "mouse entered"
>>       "exit"  : def():
>>                      print "mouse exited"
>>    }


>
> I just thought of a better way to write this.
>
>     myHandlers = {}
>     myHandlers["click"] = def(x,y):
>         print "click at x,y"
>     myHandlers["enter"] = def():
>         print "mouse entered"
>     myHandlers["exit"] = def():
>         print "mouse exited"
>
> I think that's pretty nice.

And how would you write in-line callbacks for functions that take 
multiple callbacks (such as an on-success and on-error handler)?

Ronald




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 00:23:54 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:23:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux +++
In-Reply-To: <20040317050108.71682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040317052354.92068.qmail@web13011.mail.yahoo.com>

Nobody knows what the problem is?

It seems that the cjkcodecs package is correctly
installed by the super user.

At this point of time, cjkcodecs is only installed on
one Mandrake host in the lab.  And on this host, it is
ok to do 

s = 'abc'
unicode(s, 'gbk')
print s # prints 'abc'

On the other Mandrake host, where cjkcodecs is not
installed, the script above won't work, python
complains that it does not know what 'gbk' is.

But then why can't I encode a Chinese string on the
host which has cjkcodecs?


--- Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> But I am using gbcxterm, which displays Chinese very
> well, plus, I think I can also input Chinese using
> this terminal.  Then why do I still have this
> problem?
> 
> --- Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> > Anthony Liu wrote:
> > 
> > > I get the following error message.
> > > 
> > > [antony at ancho tmp]$ python snake.py
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "snake.py", line 6, in ?
> > >     print a
> > > UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
> > > characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in
> > range(256)
> > > [antony at ancho tmp]$
> > > 
> > > What is the problem please?
> > 
> > The problem is the default encoding is Latin-1,
> > presumably because
> > that's the only thing your xterm/virtual console
> > understands.  So Python
> > is rightly complaining that it can't print the
> > Chinese characters for
> > you.
> > 
> > -- 
> >  __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com &&
> > http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> > /  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W &&
> > &tSftDotIotE
> > \__/ In this world, nothing is certain but death
> and
> > taxes.
> >     -- Benjamin Franklin
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From scummer at 3squares.com  Tue Mar  9 16:53:26 2004
From: scummer at 3squares.com (scummer)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 13:53:26 -0800
Subject: Python Equivalent??
Message-ID: <1a378204.0403091353.c06c62b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am trying to rewrite the following java method:

public static long convertDateTime(String d, String pattern) throws
Exception {
     SimpleDateFormat sdf = new SimpleDateFormat(pattern);
     sdf.setTimeZone(new SimpleTimeZone(0,""));
     java.util.Date date = sdf.parse(d);
     return date.getTime();
}

into Python and not having a great amount of luck. Simply put, I need
to pass the method a datetime string, with a given pattern, and have
the timezone set on it to UTC--without changing the time value. For
example, if I pass these values:

d = "2001-01-01 13:00:00"
pattern = "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"

to the python function:

def convertDateTime(self, d, pattern):

and I am doing so from timezone "Europe/Berlin" for example, I do not
want the "13" to be changed to "12" before this value is compared to
the Unix Epoch (which is at 01 January, 1970 @ 00:00:00 UTC if I
understand correctly). I want it to remain 13:00:00 UTC.

The return value has to be milliseconds from the Unix epoch (like the
Java's getTime()).

I have fooled around with the default python modules datetime and time
and looked at mx.DateTime but still have not decyphered it yet. Anyone
care to lend me some assistance?

Thanks in advance,

Scum


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 18:27:04 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 15:27:04 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com><gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com><40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com><GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.97.1079541755.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403171527.4f433174@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote 

> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote

> > "is" on immutables would be useful. Why would anybody ever want to
> > know whether two strings or tupels are internally stored at the same
> > location, other than to deduce details of the Python implementation?
> 
> Deducing details of the implementation *is*, for people with a certain
> curiosity, a legitimate usage, in spite of your distain for such.

No disdain whatsoever, I do it all the time myself. However, even
after my proposed redefinition of "is" for immutables, the function
id() would remain available for the curious.

> Explaining the bahavior of
> 
> a=[1]
> b=a
> a[0]=2
> print b
> 
> is another use for 'is'.

Certainly, and there are many other real world use cases for "is",
just not for "is" on immutables.

Axel


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 10:58:58 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:58:58 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> [Peter]
> 
>>I'm curious about the differences with wxPython.  Three seconds seems
>>unusually long when on a slightly slower machine I can do it in well
>>under a second.  Was that the first time you ran it?  Many other apps
>>open?  I have over 256MB RAM free when I try this...
> 
> 
> I tried it on this 3GHz 1GB XP box and it took 3.5 seconds to bring up the
> wxPython demo's splash banner.  That was with lots of other stuff running and
> not having run it before during this session, but with plenty of available RAM
> and nothing soaking the processor.  Try it after a clean boot or a good long
> disk-cache-hammering spell of doing something else - you might find it's
> slower than you think.

Something's wrong with your box then. :-)

Rebooted.  No wxPython apps run first.  Clicked on Demo icon and said
"one thousand and wuh--" and the splash banner appeared.  Run it again
and I get as far as "one thou--", so clearly there is some difference
between the two and it's not pilot error.  (Barring the possibility,
which always exists, that it still _is_ pilot error. :-)

Go figure.  (And as I said this is an AMD 2200 with 512MB RAM, XP Pro.)

-Peter


From jeff at spamisnotmything.alanne.com  Fri Mar  5 12:36:34 2004
From: jeff at spamisnotmything.alanne.com (Jeff Duffy)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:36:34 -0500
Subject: Intro to concurrent programming with python
In-Reply-To: <l8sg40ddqnb90ult8f9e6t0oj5osuhobvo@4ax.com>
References: <l8sg40ddqnb90ult8f9e6t0oj5osuhobvo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <xU22c.28635$UU.6835@lakeread01>

Boogie El Aceitoso wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> is there any good intro to threads with Python?

  Here's one:

http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/Python/PyThreads.pdf

  I've found that depending on what you're trying to accomplish writing 
an explicitly threaded implementation may not be the best way to go.

  Having come from a C and Java background, threading was pretty much 
the only way I knew how to do multiple execution paths, but I found that 
for things like writing network servers in Python I was better off using 
asynchronous I/O. Look into the asyncore module and the Twisted 
framework (http://www.twistedmatrix.com/) if that's what you need.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 17 16:54:40 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 22:54:40 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.17.1079403162.742.python-list@python.org>
	<4056c64d$0$3473$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfish387hb.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

> So just how is Python strongly typed 'like in C, C++, etc'?

It isn't. It's _more_ strongly typed that C and C++ :-)

If you are really interested in the answer, I've already explained it
to you elsewhere in this thread, and you can Google for it.

Happy trolling.


From dlee at rightnow.com  Fri Mar 26 18:05:54 2004
From: dlee at rightnow.com (Lee, Dustin)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:05:54 -0700
Subject: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
Message-ID: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E15@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>

I'm looking for an example of a well designed web application used to do sys-admin type functions.  Our company has a fairly large internal python web-app that we use for managing DNS, adding/removing pop accounts, installing/upgrading/removing instances of our (c/PHP based) customer product, etc.  Our home grown web app works very well and has been around and growing for 2+ years.  In my mind things are getting large enough that we could stand to think long and hard about the overall architecture and where we are going long term.  (Not that we've never thought about it, but you know how things keep growing and growing.....)

So basically I want to see well designed applications that are in the same space (sysadmin oriented).  I know of and have played a little with some of the big names in infrastructure (Zope, quixote, etc) but it's hard to really commit to one of those unless I see that it's really a good match for what we are doing.  For instance Zope seems more suited to content management type activities, though this may be naivety on my part.  And going through the tutorials doesn't give me a great sense of how it matches our needs.  Seeing something in action that is similar to what we already have would be more compelling.

Anyway our environment is basically your classic LAMP set up with lots of oracle thrown in as well.  I'm especially interested in uses of sudo called from web pages, authentication techniques and remote procedure calls.  We've got our own solutions to these problems but I'm interested in seeing other ways of doing it.  I'd even be willing to wade through non-python code if I'd learn something general about how to design such a system.

thanks,

dustin
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From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 11:13:27 2004
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:13:27 +0100
Subject: Hiding console window
In-Reply-To: <4059c0bd$0$47227$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<pdKdnSucPq3BNMTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca> <4059b239$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
	<4059c0bd$0$47227$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <QTj6c.381$hf2.130@news.get2net.dk>

Otto Kr?se wrote:
> You can tell py2exe to make a windows exe by putting the line windows = 
> ["yourscript.py"] in your setup.py script.
> 
> 
> Example:
>     """
>     # A setup script
> 
>     from distutils.core import setup
>     import py2exe
> 
>     setup(windows = ["yourScript.py"])
>     """
> 
> 
> What I'm wondering about now if there's a way to achieve the same for a 
> python script (instead of the .exe version of that script). --> I want 
> to double-click on a python Tkinter script and only see the GUI, not the 
> console window behind it. Does anyone know how to do this?
> 

The extension should pyw instead of py!

Regards
Jorgen


From lucat at despammed.com  Tue Mar 16 15:49:23 2004
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca T.)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:49:23 +0100
Subject: Python & Linux, some questions (2)
In-Reply-To: <fP-dnYM7-_JJ-MrdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
References: <c353om$23bqmc$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<fP-dnYM7-_JJ-MrdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c37pb9$229mr3$1@ID-99001.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Bug: you are referencing r.close and friends, but not actually calling 
> them.  Python is not VB (or Pascal, etc), so you *must* include the 
> parentheses to make a method call:
> 
> r.close()
> w.close()
> e.close()

Thank you

> PyChecker can warn about such things, and many others.

I'll search for it

Thanx again,
    Luca


From wmgill at gcgroup.net  Thu Mar  4 12:48:07 2004
From: wmgill at gcgroup.net (William D. Gill)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:48:07 -0500
Subject: python classes
References: <f2335$40475626$42a655ea$12158@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
	<c27mrt$kge$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <9f1bd$40476c26$42a655ea$13320@msgid.meganewsservers.com>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c27mrt$kge$03$1 at news.t-online.com...
> William D. Gill wrote:
>
> > I'm new to python and am probably trying too many new things at once,
but
> > here goes.
>
> Welcome!
>
> > I am working with a (MySQL) database and am trying to make a html
/python
> > interface for editing records.
> > Data is broken up into several tables, and related by customer number.
> > For example one table contains basic information about the customer, one
> > table phone numbers (one record for published number, one for cell
phone,
> > etc, all customers will have at least one record here).
> >
> > I want to use python classes in my code so I have a couple of  questions
> > about python classes:
> >
> > 1) can a class __init__ have multiple "signatures like in C++  i.e.
> > MyClass( int, string), . MyClass(int) ?
>
> No, but you can provide defaults:
>
> >>> class MyClass:
> ...     def __init__(self, mandatory, value=99, name="unknown"): pass
> ...
> >>> MyClass(1)
> <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x40290aec>
> >>> MyClass(1,2)
> <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x40290a6c>
> >>> MyClass(1, name="whoever")
> <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x40290a4c>
>
> and so on ad infinitum.
I'm not sure defaults do what I want.  In C++ I could create an instance
passing customer id , or the name, have the constructor interrogat the db
and create the same resulting object.
I could use default  id = None, name  = None, and have the constructor
either name, id , or a "no info given" to determine how to create the
object.

> > 2) can a class attribute be an instance of another class ...
>
> Yes, it can.
>
> > or is multiple inheritance the proper answer?
>
> If the _question_ is 42?, then I would say so :-)

the _question_ is:
which of the following is correct?

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self, id=0000):
        self.data = MyOtherClass(id)    # data is an object with name, id
and other properties

or

class MyClass(MyOtherClass)
    def __init__(self, id=0000):
         #self.data.id, self.data.name, and other properties are defined in
MyOtherClass and inherited in  MyClass

> > 3) Can I make instantiation fail if an invalid customer number is use,
and
> > wrap the "a=MyClass(cusid=999) in an exception?
>
> You _should_ raise a custom exception (just derive from Exception) which
can
> be loaded with arbitrary information - in your example that would rather
be
> the bad customer id than the inconsistant MyClass instance.

I'm not sure I understand?  I don't want python to create an instance if
given invalid data (i.e given an invalid id the db lookup will fail), and I
want to raise an exception when this happens.





From python at rcn.com  Sat Mar 20 01:07:51 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 22:07:51 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>

> Why md5 instead of sha?

You could go either way.  Make the decision based on how many bits you
need (128 should be plenty) for generating a single 53-bit float and
then take into account speed considerations (MD5 vs SHA-1) and the
time to generate the bits going into the message digest (it takes
longer to generate 160 bits than 128).


> What's Random.random(self) supposed to do?

It's called subclassing ;-)

In this case, it inherits all the other random functionality (being
sure to include my corrected method name from newrandom() to
random()).

 
> >         ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()
> 
> I think you mean update.

Nope, I meant digest(), but it could be done with update as well.



> But doesn't support all the operations specified in the Random API.
> What's up with that?

Sure it does.  That is what the subclassing is for.  Again be sure to
incorporate the two submitted revisions resulting in:


from random import Random
from struct import unpack
import md5

class MD5Random(Random):
    def random(self,    tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53):
        plaintxt = str(Random.getrandbits(self, 128))
        ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()
        randint = unpack('<Q', ciphertxt[:8])[0] >> 11  # grab 53 bits
        return randint * tofloat


> > * Takes advantage of MT's proven equidistribution, of its passing
> > known tests for randomness, and of its known period (in contrast,
> > SHA-1 was designed as a digest that makes it computationally
> > intractable to find a different message giving the same signature --
> > that does *not* imply the non-existence of short cycles for some
> > keys).
> 
> I'm missing something here--if you're just trying to avoid possible
> cycles, why do you want to use MT instead of a sequential counter?

Either my version or your original requires something that generates a
sequence of randoms from a seed (mine does it with MT and yours with
s0=sha1(s0)).  The advantages of MT are proven properties, and it can
more efficiently generate an arbitrary number of bits (thanks to
genrandbits()) without the messy pure python code for extracting a
byte at a time.  It was also nice to not have to override jumpahead(),
getstate(), setstate(), etc.

For the base generator, MT or s0-sha1(s0), no cryptography is
necessary; you're getting that from the second application of sha1 or
md5.

If you use sha1 for the base generator, you gain cryptographic
strength to the left which is useless for your application (lottery
numbers are selected in a way that is strong to the left and right,
but no one cares about inferring last weeks numbers from this weeks,
you make money only if you can predict the following week).  It is
doubly useless, because the second application of SHA1 gives you what
you need.


> > * It uses both MD5 and the Mersenne Twister as they were designed (in
> > contrast, my google searches show *no* research on using SHA-1 in OFB
> > and reapplying SHA-1 again to conceal the output).
> 
> Applying a collision resistant hash function to itself is a standard
> construction for making a PRF and is the basis of HMAC.

Re-reading your sentence carefully, does it say that SHA-1 is
collision resistant.  The design goal for SHA-1, of necessity,
produces collisions for messages over 160 bits in length and AFAICT
there are no citations showing collision resistance at 160 bits.

> I believe
> the relevant paper is
> 
>     Bellare, M., Canetti, R., and Krawczyk, H., "Pseudorandom Functions
>     Revisited: The Cascade Construction". Proc. of the 37th IEEE Symp. on
>     Foundation of Computer Science, 1996, webbed (PostScript) at:
> 
>      http://www.research.ibm.com/security/bck1.ps

Good paper, but read it carefully.  Basically what it starts out
saying is that not all trapdoor functions make good PRFs, and then it
sets about how to construct functions that are both trapdoor and
collision resistant (with positive implications for the minimum
period).


> My guess is the reason you haven't found any publications specific to
> SHA1 with this construction is that nobody has found any results
> against SHA1.  As far as anyone can tell, the output is
> undistinguishable from random.

I wish you would abandond this line of reasoning.  In security
applications, proofs rule and the absence of published flaws means
nothing (consider the case of Engima where the designers relied on
"nobody has found any results
against" their cipher).  

In this particular case, the finding a short cycle would not really be
a major flaw; the function still meets its design goal of producing a
message digest for a given message such that it is difficult to
produce another message with the same digest.  A few known 160-bit
collisions would not be an issue except for those exact 160 bit
messages.  IOW, even if some collisions are known, don't expect to
find a paper on it.

All of that is moot, MT is fast, subclasses nicely, is threadsafe, has
proven distribution properties, and has a known (large) period.  Why
not digest it and produce your shielded random numbers?  Or is is just
a matter of being glued to your originally published code (which would
be correct if collision resistance is known)?


Raymond Hettinger


From ienaga at vvl.co.uk  Mon Mar 29 02:39:44 2004
From: ienaga at vvl.co.uk (ienaga at vvl.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:39:44 +0000
Subject: The best antedepressfant
In-Reply-To: <52L1EAJABK50K7GB@python.org>
References: <52L1EAJABK50K7GB@python.org>
Message-ID: <23L3B24H99DE8J5B@vvl.co.uk>

Take it easier! Prozahlc - the most popular antidepkressant in the world for the lowesgt price here http://trustdoctors.com/pr/index.php?pid=eph9058

h<rndline>by w<rndline> g<rndline>m<rndline>p<rndline>y r<rndline> v<rndline>d<rndline>g<rndline>m g<rndline> l<rndline>c<rndline>




From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Mon Mar 15 15:18:16 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:18:16 +0100
Subject: swig and docstring
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.15.20.18.11.654288@ifrance.com>

does swig handle docstring ? i have written a C module using siwg, and i
want to add some documentation using docstring. how can i do ?


From fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk  Tue Mar 16 07:55:29 2004
From: fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk (DomF)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:55:29 -0000
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079441651.67066.0@demeter.uk.clara.net>

In addition to the great programming books suggested by by others, I would
recommend "Code" by Charles Petzold, Microsoft press. This is a great book
about how computers work at a fundamental level, from switches with
lightbulbs and batteries to assembly language!

"pius" <alessandro_valerio at msn.com> wrote in message
news:3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1 at posting.google.com...
> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
> of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
> programming.
> Is there anybody who can suggest me where to find what i'm searching?
> Thanks a lot.
> pus





From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 15:13:34 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:13:34 -0700
Subject: backquote
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <50i150d9646ms48regnbqgf64bodrsicni@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:08:46 GMT, "Paul McGuire" <bogus at bogus.net>
wrote:

>"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list at python.org...
>>
>>     Olaf> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?
>>     Olaf> Trying to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.
>>
>> `object` is equivalent to repr(object).
>>
>> Skip
>>
>Is this syntax one of those vestigial short-cuts that is on somebody's hit
>list for future deprecation?  To my eyes, `object` is more arcane than
>repr(object) - why else would we be having this thread in the first place?

see GvR's comments at:
http://python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/5

He is recommending we drop `x` in favor of repr(x)

-- Dave



From max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it  Wed Mar 10 04:39:29 2004
From: max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it (Max Ischenko)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:39:29 +0200
Subject: the need for J2EE-like standards for Python
Message-ID: <c2mnla$b6f$1@hyppo.gu.net>


Hi, all.

I think many would agree that the community-agreed standards could boost 
the development of the [python] applications in a defined areas. In 
particular, the lack of J2EE-like standards about servlets or 
transactions impedes development of web/enterpise applications.

It shoudn't be overly complex and elaborate like J2EE but it could be 
much simple, like, say, DB-API. As it is now, when developing 
non-trivial Python application we have to face the substantial risk of 
"lock-in" to particular framework/vendor. The fact that the framework is 
open source and not proprietary doesn't help much. It is usually too 
much work to abstract from a particular framework used and it looks like 
a wrong answer anyway. It is IMO better to invent/publish such an 
abstraction beforehand so that different frameworks could implement it.

There is many topics that could be addressed: servlet containers, 
component architecture, naming service, etc, etc.

What do the community think?
Is there an interest to this direction of "maturing" among the Python 
developers?
May be there is already something going on which I'm not aware of?

Seems to me that the current diversity of offering for basic 
infrastructure things like web interaction is caused by uncertainty 
about how it should be done and range of options on the subject.

Hopefully this would sorted out finally, but why not to hurry it a bit. ;)


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:44:28 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 05:44:28 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> 
> Axel Boldt wrote:
> 
> > I couldn't find that algorithm in the language reference, only in 5.9:
> > "Tuples and lists are compared lexicographically using comparison of
> > corresponding elements. This means that to compare equal, each element
> > must compare equal and the two sequences must be of the same type and
> > have the same length."
> > 
> > That definition doesn't seem to fully specify equality of list values:
> > ...
> 
> Sure it does; the rule can be used recursively. 

...and then it can run into an infinite loop. I explained that for the
example s==w in the part you deleted. The recursion does not always
have a base case; the rule does not always give a definite truth
value.

> > I hope that the
> > actual result received, i.e. s==w, is not implementation dependent?
> 
> They're also equal in Jython.  It wouldn't surprise me if you could find
> an implementation where they might not compare equal, because this is
> such a pathological case.

... i.e. such a fun case. If there really is an implementation
dependency hidden in something as fundamental as == for lists, that'd
better be mentioned in the language reference.

> > Is there a string
> > function analogous to pickle.dumps or repr which only takes values
> > into account, not internal structure?
> 
> How can you define the value of an arbitrary object without reference to
> its internal structure?

Well, you claim that s and w have the same value yet different
internal structure, so you must work with some definition of "value"
that's different from internal structure. I don't know what it is, and
the language reference doesn't fully specify it.

I.e., I'm interesting in a function val : lists -> strings with the
property val(l1) == val(l2) iff l1 == l2. That would also considerably
clarify the semantics of == for lists, which I still don't understand.

Axel


From riccardo_cut.me at cut.me_sideralis.net  Tue Mar  2 18:11:47 2004
From: riccardo_cut.me at cut.me_sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:11:47 +0100
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
References: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.02.23.11.46.543583@cut.me_sideralis.net>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:26:17 -0800, F Jamitzky wrote:

[snip]
> In python these fragments can be written as:
> 
> 5 *times(lambda: printf("Hello World!") )
[...]

printf ? a bit c-style, isn't it?
may be did you want to write sys.stdout.write instead?

Ciao,
Riccardo


-- 
Riccardo Galli
Sideralis Programs
http://www.sideralis.net


From gnupeaker at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 06:19:46 2004
From: gnupeaker at yahoo.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: explicit variable scoping
In-Reply-To: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040322111946.93866.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

Python has a few issues many consider problems with
regard to its variable namespacing.

It seems that the local/global/builtins namespacing
rules are ancient remnants of a different Python.

While function-level, module-level and "builtin-level"
variables are still needed, I suggest a few different
lookup schemes, with different levels of extremity:

A) Only get rid of the assignment-makes-local
heuristic, by changing the meaning of the "global"
keyword:

def f():
	global.a = 1 # Assigns to the module.a
	a = 2 # Assigns to a local variable

This allows accessing globals, and IMO serves for
better explicitness about variables which is very
desirable and consistent with instance variable
access.
This is not backwards compatible, however this seems
to be entirely statically-convertible (A simple script
can convert old-global notation to the new).
This has a side-effect of "global" now meaning the
"current module" (*1).

B) Create a hierarchy of "locals" for nested scopes,
which are accessible via an overloaded or new keyword
thus:

I)
	b = 1
	def f():
		a = 2
		def g():
			global.a = 3
			global.global.b = 4
II)
	b = 1
	def f():
		a = 2
		def g():
			parent.a = 3
			global.b = 4

C) For consistency and name-lookup simplicity, also
make the builtin-namespace explicit:

import __builtins__ as builtins
builtins.zip(...)

or the backwards compatible:
from __builtins__ import *


I personally don't like C, but think A and B are
almost crucial to the "cleanup" of Python's historic
lookup semantics.  Please don't rule out all
suggestions (A, B and C) because of a flaw in one of
them.

Awaiting your replies.

*1: For consistency, "class" could be made to mean the
current class without any ambiguity [but perhaps
complicating the parser], dissolving the need to
re-specify the current class name in calls to super,
for example.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Sat Mar 27 22:28:35 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 19:28:35 -0800
Subject: asyncore deficiencies
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>

Hi peeps,

I finally got around recently to doing something serious using Python
for serving network clients asynchronously, deciding on asyncore as my
starting point.

After 2 days or so of fiddling about, I have decided, as many before
me have, that the current asyncore module is the most inflexible,
brain-dead, and useless module to be found on the face of the earth!

It appears that my next stop for well-engineered event-driven
progamming is Twisted, but that is quite a hop from the 500 lines that
is asyncore. I have decided in the meantime to stick with asyncore,
despite it's failings. It has got me thinking though, shouldn't there
be a standard module that does this sort of thing correctly, on a
scale comparable to asyncore? ie. asyncore2

My biggests gripes with asyncore so far have been:

- Exception handling: namely, it's fairly braindead. As an example, if
you are using a private map for loop(), when an Exception is caught it
is dumped to stderr, then the dispatcher causing it is destroyed.
However, the dead dispatcher is not removed from your private map,
resulting in the loop iterating again, and your dead dispatcher
causing an "invalid file descriptor" error.

- API wasted on less than useful features: of the few configurable
parts of asyncore, one of them is the choice between select() and
poll(), which I find to be completely useless, as larger projects
(those that may wish to use poll()) would in my books already have
migrated away from asyncore, and the smaller projects are more
interested in getting code written, rather than worrying about some
low level events strategy. It also makes the API rather tied to
implementation.

- Poor __getattr__ use: this has caused numerous "recursion limit
exceeded" type exceptions, formatted using asyncore's less-than-ideal
so called "compact exception formatter". This results in errors that
are practically uncomprehendable, even as an experienced programmer
you know to look at the top for the true source. The __getattr__ hack
causes behaviour that is far from less than obvious.

- Unclear API: asyncore.loop(timeout = ...) is a parameter passed on
to the underlying poll() or select(). I can see no circumstance for
ever needing to change this. However, I did manage to mistake it for a
"maximum execution time" of the poll function, assuming that after
this time it would return control to the caller. Again, it's unclear.

- Lack of flexibility. I have to use SIGALRM or an external process
connected via a socket to get asyncore to change execution path based
on non-socket events. The only other way of accomplishing this, is to
temporarily empty your map to break out of loop(), then repopulate it,
probably using a couple of global variables while you're at it.

- Unclear interfaces: you must override all methods inherited from a
dispatcher even if you don't use all of them - this makes for verbose
code when it is not necessary.

- Incorrect interfaces: (this is assumed) for a UDP socket,
handle_connect() gets called on first read, despite the fact that UDP
is connectionless, and it doesn't make sense to make an exception of
the first received packet. The idea of taking the strange semantics
detected from select() or poll() and turning them into nice meaningful
names is a good one, however it could be improved.


So far, I'd like to see:

- Less stuffy API: move select() and poll() choice to either an
internal decision based on the number of active dispatchers (bad),
system call availability (better), a module-level configuration value
(ish), or simply use one or the other. Polling objects translate quite
well into how asyncore works internally (but they're not available
everywhere).

- A 'process_once' to allow you to write your own loop()s.

- Non braindead exception handling: if an exception occurs, I want to
see it propagated back up to the parent, as happens everywhere else,
not passed to a handle_error() method or "verbosely ignored".

- Decoupling from socket objects: removal of the __getitem__ magic
which causes screenfuls of abuse for a simple typo at the wrong stage
in execution.

- Possibly combined with the above, a more abstract way of watching
for events from elsewhere? Doing this might ruin the overall
simplicity of the module.


Does anyone have any other ideas? I'm sure there are at least a few I
have forgotten. If there was support for an improved 'asyncore2', I
would very much like to see an improvement on the existing module, not
a silly overcomplication with needless feature adding and
overabstraction (let's not name names here ;).


David.


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 31 05:09:55 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:09:55 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> Peter Hickman wrote:
> 
>> People who whine on about 'top posting' are the sort of people who 
>> draft 'clean desk' policies. If you want to whine about top posting 
>> then start alt.whine.top.posting and have fun.


That is not quite right. Using top posting forces every reader to 
unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in content.

Left-right - top-down

That's how we are reading and writing in most western cultures. For me 
that's about 40 years of habbit. And it takes a lot of mental effort to 
read.

You could just as well expect that we start reading from right to left. 
Exactly the same thing.

.too confusing pretty is that And


regards Max M


From haim at babysnakes.org  Tue Mar 30 12:21:49 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:21:49 +0200
Subject: Python installing on Debian
References: <BAY9-F45BzZJmH9mbe900048154@hotmail.com>	<mailman.28.1080524612.20120.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.03.29.07.54.52.345244@earthlink.net>
	<c48prl$tak$1@sea.gmane.org> <c4bjho$4pb$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c4cabd$4ga$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ed Cogburn wrote:

> Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
>> Ryan Spencer wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:43:25 +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's a very bad idea to install self-compiled applications to the same
>>>>prefix as the ones from original packages. this can breake many things
>>>>on your computer. what you have now is a semi-broke python installation,
>>>>and a package that tries to install itself every time you run apt-get
>>>>but fails.
>>>>
>>>>I think your best chance to "clean" things would be to uninstall every
>>>>python2.3 package on your system (see what happenes when you run
>>>>'apt-get remove --purge python2.3'). but make sure you understand what
>>>>you're doing (e.g. do you really want to purge your zope installaion? do
>>>>you have important stuff there, do you know how to restore it?). then if
>>>>there's still stuff in /usr/lib/python2.3 and /usr/local/lib/python2.3
>>>>check that they don't belong to any package (with dpkg -S filename) and
>>>>remove them. also check if you have a python binary in /usr/local/bin
>>>>and delete it. then re-install all the python2.3 packages. this
>>>>of-course will make you lose all your self-compiled modules, so you'll
>>>>have to re-compile them. this is a long and messy job, but you got
>>>>yourself into this position. just make sure you understand what you're
>>>>doing before your doing it.
>>>>
>>>>in the future I would recommend using the source from unstable to build
>>>>a package if you want a version newer then the one that exist in
>>>>testing. also use 'stow' when you're compiling sources. this will let
>>>>you uninstall self-compiled application easilly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks a lot,
>>>>
>>>>good-luck (you'll need it) :(
>>>
>>>It actually needn't be that messy. dpkg --purge'ing will only remove the
>>>package in question, whereas using a program such as debfoster and
>>>pruning the selected target package will remove all it's associate
>>>dependencies entirely eradicating it from your system, maybe leaving
>>>behind empty configuration folders in your home directory, but there's no
>>>fret for that those won't be taking up barely any space and you can
>>>always remove them later.
>> 
>> in my system 'apt-get remove --purge python2.3' wants to remove 401
>> packages. that's what I meant messy. you have to check that you didn't
>> change any system configuration file for any of the packages. and as a
>> rule, it's a good idea to understand what's you're doing. I've seen too
>> many times people following instructions and then discovering that
>> nothing works without knowing how to restore...
> 
> 
> It seems apt has gotten so popular that everyone has forgotten about dpkg,
> which apt is built upon.  :)  Yes, apt-get follows dependencies in that
> way,
> which is why apt was created, to handle dependencies automatically.  In
> this case however, it may not be necessary to remove everything to restore
> python.
>    It makes sense to try the least painful remedy first.  If it were me, I
> would first try rebuilding the python .deb package from my system with
> dpkg-repack as a backup, then using 'dpkg --force-all --purge python2.3'
> to delete just the python interpreter itself, not any of the packages that
> depend
> on it.  Clean any python directories/files left behind (there sometimes is
> in places like /etc and /usr/lib, etc), then reinstall python2.3 using the
> .deb
> you created with dpkg-repack.  If that fails, then try downloading a
> guaranteed virgin copy of the .deb package and repeating again.  If that
> fails too, then you're forced to start purging other python-related things
> to figure
> out whats causing the problem.  My point is that when apt doesn't do what
> you need it to do, you can always fall back on dpkg.
this can work, but he should not only remove python2.3 package, but all the
packages that have files there. that's the only way he can really clean
this directory. I think (like most applications) that the python2.3 deb is
only a part of the whole python 2.3 distribution (which, I think, installs
also idle for example, which is in another package). also, the files on
'/usr/local/lib/python2.3' can also be from a self-compiled source...


> 
> In this case the problem is likely to be the OP partially overwrote
> Debian's python with his own custom compiled one, because I have seen that
> "import
> site" failure happen when I did this myself some time ago.  I wasn't even
> installing the compiled version, I just built it and manually transferred
> the shared libs and executable to /usr, but that was enough to break some
> of the
> written-in-python library files.  Moral of the story: don't mix standard
> and
> custom-built packages.  If you want to try a custom built one, completely
> deinstall the standard one first.

Bye
--
Haim




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 21:15:19 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:15:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
Message-ID: <20040317021519.83996.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>

The superuser of the Mandrake system in my lab
installed cjkcodecs for python.

But there is a problem.

I can encode english alphabets like 'a', 'b', 'c' or
'abc' like so:

s = 'abc'
s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
print s # prints 'abc'

but when I tried to encode Chinese strings, I have a
problem.

For example, to run the following script:

s = "&#34770;&#34503;"  # 2 Chinese characters for
python
s = unicode(s, 'gbk')
print s

I get the following error message.

[antony at ancho tmp]$ python snake.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "snake.py", line 6, in ?
    print a
UnicodeEncodeError: 'latin-1' codec can't encode
characters in position 0-1: ordinal not in range(256)
[antony at ancho tmp]$ 

What is the problem please?


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
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From patois at calvix.org  Fri Mar 19 09:49:49 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:49:49 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
Message-ID: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>

Hi,

Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python lost 
class static variables values.
It seems only to append when importing a "badly" named module that 
itself import a module with a static variable in it (looks complex, but 
see the example below, pretty simple):

First a working example:
<<<< file: aTest.py
#! /usr/bin/env python
import imp
import A
name='B'
fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module(name)
B=imp.load_module(name, fp, pathname, description)
a=A.A(1)
b=B.B()
 >>>>

<<<< file: A.py
class A:
     a=None
     def __init__(self,a=None):
         if (a):
             A.a=a
     def __str__(self):
         return str(A.a)
 >>>>

<<<< file: B.py
import A
class B:
     def __init__(self):
         a=A.A()
         print a
 >>>>

Execution:
$ ./aTest.py
1

The value 1 obtained as expected (A.a is a static value and keept as such).

If now I just *rename* file B to B.1, without any change in the code 
(except name='B' become name='B.1' in aTest.py), content of B.1.py file 
being exacty the same as content of B.py, I get:

$ ./aTest.py
None

Renaming B.py to B.1.py made A unable to keeps the value of it's static 
variable.

Bug tested with:
Python 1.5.2
Python 2.2.2
Python 2.3.3

Any idea ? Is it well a bug ? Some feature I didnt understood ? I read 
about submodule naminig using dots as separator, but I cant relate it 
towhat I saw here.

Thanks.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From dbrown2 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 11:03:59 2004
From: dbrown2 at yahoo.com (dbrown2 at yahoo.com)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:03:59 -0800
Subject: IDLE and turtle
References: <d524bdb3.0403211505.c2ff2db@posting.google.com>
	<405F2941.8070807@aon.at>
Message-ID: <d524bdb3.0403230803.1ca1e996@posting.google.com>

Gregor Lingl <glingl at aon.at> wrote in message news:<405F2941.8070807 at aon.at>

...

> With Python 2.2 and IDLE 0.8 it was no problem to use turtle.py (and
> Tkinter in general) interactively, because tha application and IDLE
> itself ran in the same process (using the same mainloop()).

...

> *Fortunately* there is a way to use the new IDLE 1.0 exactly the
> same way as the old IDLE 0.8: to use it with the -n option.
> 
> Under Windows e. g. you have to change the link which calls IDLE as
> follows (or similar):
> 
> C:\Python23\pythonw.exe "C:\Python23\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw " -n
> 
> This makes IDLE starting up without subprocesses, which is indicated
> by the message
> 
> IDLE 1.0.2      ==== No Subprocess ====

....

> I use to use two versions of IDLE (and I have two coresponding icons
> on my desktop). The one with the -n - option for interactive explorations,
> the other one, configured like it comes out of the box, for developing
> more complex programs.
> 
> HTH, Gregor


Thanks very much for your advice Gregor.  This work-around works
reasonably well for me.  I actually was getting quite used to the
process behavior in the new IDLE version and trying to forget
reload().  Now though I started using the "if __name__ == '__main__'
trick at the bottom of my module to load the code for testing and it
seems to do the job.  I'm not sure if there are any implications for
memory leaks with Tkinter this way (I'm repeatedly creating turtle
graphics canvases for the display and then just closing the Tkinter
window later to rerun the code) but for my limited needs it works.

Still, I hope someone can find a good long-term solution to these
kinds of window system problems.


David


From brett at python.org  Thu Mar 11 00:19:18 2004
From: brett at python.org (Brett C.)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 21:19:18 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
Message-ID: <mailman.1078984203.29306.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Title: python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
Content-type: text/x-rst

python-dev Summary for 2004-02-01 through 2004-02-29
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from
February 1, 2004 through February 29, 2004.  It is intended to inform
the wider Python community of on-going developments on the list.  To
comment on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_
(or email python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup)
with a subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev
members are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so
don't hesitate to take a stance on something.  And if all of this
really interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_!

This is the thirty-fifth and -sixth summaries written by Brett Cannon
(who can't wait to be at PyCon).

To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not
have the time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always
catch follow-ups posted there.

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it,
although I suggest learning reST; it's simple and is accepted for `PEP
markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output.  Also, because of
the wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee
you will be able to run the text version of this summary through
Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be
found at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when
looking up any documentation on something mentioned here.  PEPs
(Python Enhancement Proposals) are located at
http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To view files in the Python CVS online,
go to http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ . 
Reported bugs and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_
project page.

The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that
holds the intellectual property for Python.  It also tries to forward
the development and use of Python.  But the PSF_ cannot do this
without donations.  You can make a donation at
http://python.org/psf/donations.html .  Every penny helps so even a
small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html
.. _PSF:
.. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/

.. contents::

.. _last summary: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-01-01_2004-01-31.html
.. _original text file:
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-02-01_2004-02-29.ht

=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
To continue my slight abuse of this space: I am still looking for a
summer job or internship programming somewhere (does not have to be
Python).  If you happen to have something at your company or know of
something somewhere that you think might work for me please email me
at brett at python.org .  Thanks.

OK, on from pimping myself out for the summer to pimping PyCon_ (or at
least I think that is how the youngsters these days would phrase that
sentence =).  You can still register for the conference.  The talks
have been chosen and scheduled; more info at
http://pycon.org/dc2004/talks/ .  Talks look really great and cover a
huge gamut of areas; bigger variety than last year in my opinion.

There is going to be a Stackless sprint in Berlin March 10-14.  See
the announcement email at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042829.html
.

.. _PyCon: http://www.pycon.org/


=========
Summaries
=========
---------------------------------
Python 2.3 branch open for fixin'
---------------------------------
Anthony Baxter, perpetual release manager for the 2.3 branch,
announced that CVS commits for 2.3 were open again.  He mentioned he
thought another release around May or June would probably happen
unless a severe bug came up the required immediate patching and
release.

But Jim Fulton discovered a critical bug.  =)  It has been fixed in
CVS, but no word on if the bug's severity has been judged by Anthony
to warrant another release now.

Contributing threads:
  - `release23-maint is reopened for business.
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042400.html>`__


--------------------------------------------------------
Early Spring cleaning for what platforms Python supports
--------------------------------------------------------
Skip Montanaro cleaned up the configure.in script for Python and in
the process removed old support for unneeded OSs as stated in `PEP
11`_.  So SunOS 4 support is gone.  There was discussion of making
Python 2.4 not support libc 5 since Python does not compile with it. 
The suggestion was made of having configure.in detect libc 5 and if it
found it then refuse to continue.

Skip also removed optional universal newline support and antiquated
pthread variants from 1997 and before.

.. _PEP 11: http://python.org/peps/pep-0011.html

Contributing threads:
  - ` zapped several unsupported bits...
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042427.html>`__
  - `PEP-0011 up-to-date
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042435.html>`__


--------------------------------------------------
Compiling in profiling support for the interpreter
--------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Hylton discovered his old way of turning on gprof_ profiling
support when compiling Python no longer worked.  Hye-SHik Chang said
he got it working by compiling using ``CC="cc -pg" LDFLAGS="-pg"
./configure``.  Martin v. L??wis suggested running configure with ``
--without-cxx`` to get around the problem.

.. _gprof: http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/as/gprof_toc.html

Contributing threads:
  - `building python with profiling support
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042431.html>`__


-----------------------------------
Python and C89 play nicely together
-----------------------------------
The question of what version of C Python is required to work with came
up.  The answer is that C89 is the version of Standard C Python
requires.  Neither C89 with Amendment 1 (also called C95) nor C99 are
required for Python to run (which, in this case, meant wchar.h is not
required).

Contributing threads:
  - `*grumble* wchar.h
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042438.html>`__
  - `Another big ANSI-fication change...
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042480.html>`__


---------------------------------------
Growing lists just got that much faster
---------------------------------------
Raymond Hettinger (along with the help of various other people on his
initial patch) managed to come up with a way to speed up allocating
space for list items (either from growth of an exisiting list or
creation of a new list).

While this was being discussed, though, the possibility of 3rd party
code messing with the internal values of list items came up.  While no
specific use-case was found, it was agreed upon that code outside of
the Python core should not break the API; there is no guarantee the
internals won't change.

Raymond has also subsequently done a major clean-up of the entire
PyList API that has netted wonderful speed-ups across the board.  And
in case you are a big fan of list.pop(0) and list.insert(0, x), the
collections module's deque object now handles your needs in a much
faster fashion.  Kudos to him for doing all of this and helping to
make sure Guido doesn't get a pie at OSCON 2004 (if you don't catch
that reference about the pie, read
http://python.org/dev/summary/2003-12-01_2003-12-31.html#pie-thon-competition-work-ramps-up
)

Contributing threads:
  - `Optimization of the Year
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042466.html>`__


---------------------------------------------------
Do we really need mutability for exceptions groups?
---------------------------------------------------
The question was raised as to why ``except (TypeError, ValueError):``
is acceptable while ``except [TypeError, ValueError]:`` (in other
words why use tuples to group exceptions for an 'except' statement and
not allow lists).  The question was in relation as to whether it had
something to do with a tuple's immutability.

Guido said it all had to do with a visual way of grouping tuples and
nothing to do with what the underlying container was.  If he had it to
do over again he would rather change it so that ``except TypeError,
ValueError:`` did the same thing as above.  That change would
alleviate the common error of expecting the above behavior using that
syntax but instead getting the exception instance bound to ValueError.
 But the change is not planned for any time in the future since Guido
has no proposal on how to change the syntax to handle the assignment
to a local variable for the exception instance.

Contributing threads:
  - `Syntax for "except"
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042473.html>`__


---------------------------
No, you can't subclass Bool
---------------------------
Francois Pinard discovered that you can't subclass the Bool type. 
This led to the question of "why?"  To this he received the answer
that since Bool only has two instance, True and False, it shouldn't be
allowed to be a superclass of anything since that would suggest more
instances of Bool could exist.

Contributing threads:
  - `bool does not want to be subclassed?
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042535.html>`__


-------------------------------------
Function decoration and all that jazz
-------------------------------------
Bob Ippolito brought up Michael Hudson's function/method syntactic
sugar to essentially implement `PEP 318`_ (Michael's patch can be
found at http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/meth-syntax-sugar-3.diff)
as something he **really** wanted for PyObjC_.

In case you don't know what the syntax is ``def fxn() [fun, stuff,
here]: pass``, which ends up being the same as::

  def fxn(): pass
  fxn = here(stuff(fun(fxn)))

Common use cases are for defining class

The discussion then drifted in discussing how this syntax could even
be used with classes and whether it could somehow supplant some
metaclass uses.  Talking seemed to lead to it not really being that
great of a use case.

The order or application also came up.  It was suggested that the
order be the reversed of that shown above so that it reads the way it
would be written by hand instead of in application order.

Using 'as' instead of brackets was brought up again; ``def fxn() as
fun`` instead of ``def fxn() [fun]``.  An argument for this or any
other syntax is that using brackets for this overloads the usage of
them in Python itself and some feel that is unpythonic.  An explicit
argument for the brackets, though, is that it is cleaner for
multi-line use.  There was also the issue with using 'as' in terms of
how would one look up its use in the docs?  Would someone look up
under 'as' or under 'def' naturally?

.. _PEP 318: http://python.org/peps/pep-0318.html
.. _PyObjC: http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/

Contributing threads:
  - `Plea for function/method syntax sugar
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042605.html>`__
  - `new syntax for wrapping
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042646.html>`__
  - `PEP 318: What Java does
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042750.html>`__
  - `other uses for "as"
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042780.html>`__
  - `new syntax for wrapping (PEP 318) - Timothy's summary
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042824.html>`__
  - `[UPDATED] PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042851.html>`__


--------------------------------------
Building Python with the free .NET SDK
--------------------------------------
Go to the email to see Garth's latest tool and instructions on
building Python using Microsoft's free .NET SDK.

Contributing threads:
  - `Compiling python with the free .NET SDK
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042595.html>`__


-------------------------------------
PEP 326 finished (but still rejected)
-------------------------------------
`PEP 326`_ ("A Case for Top and Bottom Values") has its final
implementation linked from the PEP.  It has been rejected (as with all
PEPs that have been pronounced upon, read the PEP for the reasons
why), but the PEP's authors will nice enough to go ahead and finish
the code for anyone who might want to use it anyway.

.. _PEP 326: http://python.org/peps/pep-0326.html

Contributing threads:
  - `PEP 326 <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042672.html>`__


------------------------------------------------
time.strftime() now checks its argument's bounds
------------------------------------------------
Because of a possible crash from using negative values in the time
tuple when passed to time.strftime(), it was decided to bound checks
on all values in the time tuple.  This will break existing code that
naively set all fields to 0 in a passed-in time tuple and thus did not
set the values within the proper bounds (year, month, day, and day of
year should not be 0).

Contributing threads:
  - `Boundary checks on arguments to time.strftime()
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042675.html>`__


--------------------------------------------
OpenVMS throws a fit over universal newlines
--------------------------------------------
For Python 2.4 the option to compile without universal newline support
was removed.  Well, it turns out that OpenVMS_ doesn't like this. 
Apparently the OS is not stream-oriented for its filesystem but is
records-based and this leads to there being no newlines in a text file
unless it is opened as a plain file.

Bug #903339 has been opened to deal with this.

.. _Bug #903339: http://python.org/sf/903339

.. _OpenVMS: http://www.openvms.org/


--------------------------------------------
Forth-style argument passing for C functions
--------------------------------------------
Raymond Hettinger came up with the idea of adding a new function flag
called METH_STACK that would call a C function to be called with a
pointer to the execution stack and the number of arguments it is being
passed.  This would allow the function to pop off its arguments on its
own and bypass the expense of putting them into a tuple.

The overall idea did not seem to win out.  But it does turn out that
Michael Hudson has a patch that implements a similar idea at
http://python.org/sf/876193 .  A discussion of whether more specific
argument passing like METH_O should be considered.

Contributing threads:
  - `Idea for a fast calling convention
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-February/042807.html>`__



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Mar 15 13:01:17 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:01:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c34r1d$1dq$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
>> I have read it before. I still disagree with the implication that
>> Python is weakly typed just much as I did when I first read it.
>> 
>> But you are ignoring my explanation of how Python is strongly typed,
>> and of the distinction between strong-vs-weak and dynamic-vs-static
>> typing, and are instead resorting to argument from authority:

> Right. I should listen to you because you are an authority on Typing but 
> ignore Guido van Rossum.

There's some disagreement, but most often I hear these terms used as
Jacek describes.  Weak typing generally refers to the ability to
reinterpret the data representation at runtime.  For example, in C:

  double x = 10.3;
  int i = *(int*)&x;

Most would call Python strongly, dynamically typed.


From jgentil at sebistar.net  Tue Mar 30 01:50:36 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:50:36 -0600
Subject: marshalling python data structures in php
In-Reply-To: <930ba99a.0403292243.2d5d3997@posting.google.com>
References: <930ba99a.0403292243.2d5d3997@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <106i65to50v6v31@corp.supernews.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sridhar R wrote:
| Hi,
|
| I have written in network project in python.  the client sends a
| dictionary by pickling it over the socket and the server unpickles it.
|  I also need a webclient for this.  So I am wondering how to create
| python dictionary in PHP and pickle it and send it to the server
| running in python.
|
| any thoughts?

Sounds utterly hard.  You'd have to implement the Pickle module in PHP
and devise a way to convert a PHP associative array into a pickled
Python dictionary.

Instead what I would suggest that you do is to write your webclient in
Python using mod_python/Zope/Twisted.Web/etc...

- --
::  Jon-Pierre Gentil
::  PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
::  Jabber: jgentil at jabber.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkBpGLoACgkQOrVFmaIbww5k7ACgkpQ+TcbKQXoqo2JtAWW6dN4U
cokAn2hppk37ilKcM1hAu7J9X4N2Q48r
=8OAg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Wed Mar 10 16:35:45 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 13:35:45 -0800
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
References: <mailman.213.1078910068.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0403101335.41b328f7@posting.google.com>

Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.213.1078910068.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> I copy-pasted the following sample xml document from
> http://slis-two.lis.fsu.edu/~xml/sample.html and saved
> it as samplexml.xml.  Please note that I removed the
> following line
> 
> <!DOCTYPE DOCUMENT SYSTEM "simple.dtd">
> 
> from the original xml sample.
> 
> <?XML version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <DOCUMENT trackNum="1234">
> <TITLE> Sample Document </TITLE>
> <AUTHOR> <FIRSTNAME> Brandon </FIRSTNAME>
> <LASTNAME> Voss </LASTNAME>
> <COMPANY> The XML Pages </COMPANY> </AUTHOR>
> <SUMMARY> This is element text and an entity
> follows:&Description;
> </SUMMARY>
> </DOCUMENT>
> 
> Then, I attempted to parse this xml document with the
> following python code, which is saved as xmltest.py.
> 
> from xml.dom import minidom
> xmldoc = minidom.parse('sample.xml')
> print xmldoc.toxml()
> 
> I got the following error message:
> 
> >>> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python23\codes\xmltest.py", line 4, in
> -toplevel-
>     xmldoc = minidom.parse('samplexml.xml')
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line
> 1919, in parse
>     return expatbuilder.parse(file)
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line
> 924, in parse
>     result = builder.parseFile(fp)
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line
> 207, in parseFile
>     parser.Parse(buffer, 0)
> ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1,
> column 5
> >>> 
> 
> I have no clue why that xml document is not
> well-formed.
> 
> Any hint please?
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com

One additional possibility to get another quick help about errors
in the xml-document is -  when working under MS-Windows - to  open
the document with the Internet Explorer up from version 5.xx
or so.
In your case it tells me exactly what Erik Max Francis told you.

Regards
Peter


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 23:37:14 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:37:14 -0500
Subject: PythonCOM - How to get (LPDISPATCH) of myself?
In-Reply-To: <SUa3c.13260$6y1.557049@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <_MS2c.1888$6y1.257780@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<SUa3c.13260$6y1.557049@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <%1S3c.38846$lT6.197192@news20.bellglobal.com>

Getting clooooseeerr......

OK, apparently what I want is:

win32com.server.util.wrap(self)

This seems to work fine.  All I have left to do is to get my callbacks 
to work.  They are intermittent, but I think it is not Python's fault...

Markus.

Markus Wankus wrote:
> In the spirit of trial and error.. ;o) ..I tried the following to get a 
> Dispatch object to myself from within my Python COM server:
> 
> pythoncom.UnwrapObject(pythoncom.GetActiveObject(self._reg_progid_))
> 
> But got the following exception:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\universal.py", line 173, 
> in dispatch
>     retVal = ob._InvokeEx_(meth.dispid, 0, meth.invkind, args, None, None)
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 
> 322, in _InvokeEx_
>     return self._invokeex_(dispid, lcid, wFlags, args, kwargs, 
> serviceProvider)
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 
> 541, in _invokeex_
>     return func(*args)
>   File "E:\_DEV\python\solidworks\PropertyPageUtils.py", line 53, in 
> ConnectToSW
>     obj = 
> pythoncom.UnwrapObject(pythoncom.GetActiveObject(self._reg_progid_))
> pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221021, 'Operation unavailable', None, None)
> 
> Can anyone tell me what 'Operation unavailable' might be hinting at?
> 
> Markus.
> 
> Markus Wankus wrote:
> 
>> I have a Python COM server which supports callbacks for a large CAD 
>> program.  It adds menu items and then listens to events - however, I 
>> have a problem (obviously)...  I'm a COM idiot - so please expect dumb 
>> questions.
>>
>> There are a bunch of functions that require a pointer to the event 
>> handler, or a pointer to my COM server.  Prolem is - it is looking for 
>> a pointer to a Dispatch object - but I have already been dispatched. 
>> Maybe an example will clear things up.  One of the functions is as 
>> follows:
>>
>> Status = SldWorks.SetAddinCallbackInfo ( ModuleHandle, AddinCallbacks, 
>> Cookie )
>>
>> Input:
>>  (long) ModuleHandle
>>  Instance handle of the add-in
>>
>> Input:
>>  (LPDISPATCH) AddinCallbacks
>>  Pointer to the object that includes the add-in callback methods
>>
>> Input:
>>  (long) Cookie
>>  Add-in ID; this is the same Cookie you specified in SwAddin::ConnectToSW
>>
>> Output:
>>  (VARIANT_BOOL) Status
>>  TRUE if successful, FALSE if unsuccessful
>>
>> What I *want* to do is essentially:
>>
>> SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), self, self.ICookie)
>>
>> ...however - this fails because "self" (my COM server) is not a 
>> Pointer to a Dispatch object.
>>
>> I can get it to work if I do the following:
>>
>> SetAddinCallbackInfo(id(self), Dispatch(self._reg_progid_), self.ICookie)
>>
>> ...however this dipatches a new instance of my COM server, losing any 
>> attributes that may have been set since instantiation - thus is useless.
>>
>> Is there a way to get a pointer to a Dispatch object of yourself?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark.


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Mar 15 04:16:36 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:16:36 +0100
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
In-Reply-To: <c3315f$22vl9m$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>
	<mailman.308.1079092513.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<xqxznal3ngm.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
	<c3315f$22vl9m$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040315091636.GA3736@nl.linux.org>

Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Harry George wrote:
> >Hmmm.  How many Pythonistas have studied Esperanto?  Looks like 2 of
> >us so far.  The Esperanto headquarters is in Netherlands, so there is
> >a suspicious confluence of geography with Python.
> 
> I'm astounded that nobody has suggested Dutch yet...

I guess the Dutch among us know that Dutch is certainly not an easy
language - zwakke/sterke werkwoorden are often problems while studying
NT2 (Nederlands als Tweede Taal, Dutch as second language) (or NTn n>1).
I think it has been proposed at some time in the past, though - maarja,
de Nederlandse mailing list heeft 2 jaar geleefd en 4 berichten gehad,
dus erg veel animo is/was er niet (er is trouwens wel een
Nederlandstalig Python boek zag ik, Programming Python has been
translated).

getjampoerde groetjes,
Gerrit (who knows only Nederlands, Deutch, English, et un petit peu Fran?ais)

(Indonesian? ;-)

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 15/03 08:25 UTC:
	10.0?C light drizzle overcast wind 6.3 m/s SW (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From robhboyd at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 10:41:39 2004
From: robhboyd at yahoo.com (Robert Boyd)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403081852180.9048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>
Message-ID: <20040309154139.86874.qmail@web14106.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jim Benson <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   Does anyone know of a source code editor for
> python
> that has the following characteristics:
> 
> 1) Freeware (desired)
> 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired) 
> 
> 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all
> methods/functions 
>    data elements in the file. (required)
> 

I use jEdit (jedit.org). It's written in Java and the
available plugins tend to be oriented towards Java
development, but it does Python syntax highlighting,
code browsing with ctags, can open separate windows
for each file or put them in tabs, etc, etc. Lots of
additional plugins like task lists, CVS, remote
editing through FTP or SFTP... you can even dock a
Jython interpreter into it, or a Python debugger. No
code completion for Python, though. I tried Eclipse
for Python development for about a week then went back
to jEdit.

Rob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 22 17:32:05 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:32:05 -0600
Subject: Any reportlab user here??
References: <f046efac.0403220742.12943b9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zLidnWU_vdz_9MLdRVn-uw@comcast.com>

Ketul,

You use .barLabels.fontSize, .barLabels.fontName,
.barLabels.Nudge, and .barLabelFormat to control
what prints at the top of each bar.

You use the legend object to create a legend for
a barchart that shows a "swatch" of the color/pattern
for the bar along with a description for that series.

You should probably print out and review all the
examples that come with ReportLab/Graphics.  I know
they helped me a lot.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


<ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f046efac.0403220742.12943b9c at posting.google.com...
> Hi
> I am drawing a vertical barchart for project vs start date
> The vertical bars are for projects.
> Now, at the top of each bar I also want to display the number of
> projects.
> Also I want to show the color convention i.e
> Say I have different bars for H.R projects,etc...
> Now,if HR project bars are of blue colors then at the side of graph I
> want to show a small rectangle of blue color with "H.R project" beside
> it.
> How should I do this?
> Regards,
> Ketul




From python at gerber.mailshell.com  Thu Mar  4 16:19:24 2004
From: python at gerber.mailshell.com (Shmuel Gerber)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:19:24 GMT
Subject: language version data in source
Message-ID: <w3N1c.21573$aT1.6622@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi, all.

Is there any convention for including metadata in a source file?
Specifically, is there a convention for indicating which version or versions
of Python the source was designed for and/or tested on?

--Shmuel Gerber




From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Mon Mar 22 13:18:30 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:18:30 GMT
Subject: name of 'name'
Message-ID: <W5G7c.878632$ts4.740941@pd7tw3no>

Is there a built-in name for the function that returns an object's name? That
is, for

"  lambda x: [y for y in globals().keys() if globals()[y]==x][0]   "  ?

Muchas gracias.

Peace




From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Mar 29 16:42:25 2004
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:42:25 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04> <40681CAD.6050303@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <00f201c415d6$b974f110$d701a8c0@MarkVaio>

I would greatly appreciate it if you could take a peek at my stackless
implementation and give me a grade :)

I don't know if you remember me, but I pissed you off in a rude posting I
made in a reply to you months ago (I apologize once again).  I was trying to
pickle a complicated graph of objects and getting recursions limit errors in
Python.  You were very helpfully telling me how to get around the problem in
a long message and I replied curtly and rudely that Python was broken and
I'd rather write something from scratch than try to use broken tools (it was
a bad day).

To make a long story short, that was the straw that broke the camel's back
and caused me to start work on Prothon.  I had been daydreaming about an
extrememly simple but powerful language with just a pile of lockable objects
for some time.  The fact that is uses Python syntax is secondary and only
because I like the syntax.  My real love is the internal object structure,
threading,  and interpreter.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com>
To: "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes


> Mark Hahn wrote:
>
> > Mutability is an interesting area.  I just added an unmutable bit in the
> > Prothon internal object which makes the read_lock call a no-op and
causes a
> > write_lock call to throw an exception.  This makes the object
> > write-protected and makes the lock code run much faster.
> >
> > I did this for internal performance reasons, but after doing it I
realize
> > that extending it to the Ruby freeze() level would be really good.
Tying
> > the freezing in somehow to the bang! methods is also in interesting area
of
> > research.
> > Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)
> >
> > P.S. If this belongs in the Prothon list instead of Python, let us know.
>
> Allthough I'm a known Python-addict, I find this very interesting.
> Being prototyped instead of class based was one of the features
> of JavaScript, which were concidered "deficiencies". Well, I didn't
> share this so much, there are many other much worse problems.
>
> I'm eager to learn how a real language develops if it consequently
> builds upon prototypes. Especially this one, since it is stackless
> by nature. :-)
>
> ciao - chris
>
> -- 
> Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
> Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
> Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
> 14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
> work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
> PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
>       whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/
>
>
>
>
>




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Mar  9 04:44:33 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:44:33 +0000
Subject: Scaling an ImageTk.PhotoImage
In-Reply-To: <s04d8fdd.072@icr.ac.uk>
References: <s04d8fdd.072@icr.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <404D9201.8040803@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

James Anderson wrote:
> I'm have a bitmap which I can display as an ImageTk.PhotoImage and would
> like to display it and double or quadruple size.  The bitmap itself is
> generated inside my program, so converting it to another format isn't
> really practical.  Does anyone know an easy way to do this?
> 
> Thanks,
> James Anderson
> 

A standard Tkinter.PhotoImage has a zoom method, a PIL ImageTK is AFAIK 
the same thing.

from pydoc Tkinter.PhotoImage:-

  |  zoom(self, x, y='')
  |      Return a new PhotoImage with the same image as this widget
  |      but zoom it with X and Y.


HTH
Martin



From tseaver at zope.com  Tue Mar  2 13:32:03 2004
From: tseaver at zope.com (Tres Seaver)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:32:03 -0500
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
In-Reply-To: <ptbvktt7.fsf@python.net>
References: <oerfn164.fsf@python.net>	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEAFJEAB.tim@zope.com>
	<ptbvktt7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <4044D323.1060506@zope.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> "Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>[moving this from comp.lang.python to zope-dev; it really belongs on a
>> Zope list, although schemes to change what pythonw does probably belong
>> on python-dev]
> 
> 
> [I'm currently reading python-list via the gmane nntp interface, I don't
> know whether there really is a gmane.comp.web.zope.devel newsgroup]

Heh, yep.  That is where I saw yours.

Tres.
-- 
===============================================================
Tres Seaver                                tseaver at zope.com
Zope Corporation      "Zope Dealers"       http://www.zope.com




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Mar 23 10:37:40 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:37:40 -0500
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.230.1079954390.742.python-list@python.org>
	<blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu@4ax.com>
	<tyfk71b66ko.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <6QY7c.11335$A_2.687877@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
news:tyfk71b66ko.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch...

> In Python, both "let" and "setq" are spelt "=". However, in the case
> of a global binding "(setq x y)" can be spelt "global x; x = y".
>
> "let" and "setq" give us a way to express whether we want to rebind an
> existing binding, or to create a new one.

Io makes a similar distinction, though "let" and "setq" are spelled
differently (":=" and "=", respectively). Their rationale can be found
here [1]. They don't appear to have considered 'let', e.g., "let a = 1".

On a somewhat related note, there's atleast one long debate [2] on
c.l.py regarding adding ":=" to the language (there are others if anyone
wants to sift through the archives). Although, that argument was about
adding an assignment expression, not a second assignment statement.




[1]
http://io.kicks-ass.net/LocalVariables

http://io.kicks-ass.net/LocalVariablesSolutions

[2]
http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=Pine.SUN.3.95-heb-2.07.990511232428.3549B-100000%40sunset.ma.huji.ac.il





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 10 22:24:46 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:24:46 -0800
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
References: <mailman.254.1078968365.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404FDBFE.4710C204@alcyone.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> What do you mean by "where these Chinese characters
> come from"?  I think I got lost.

You said you pasted Chinese characters into the XML document.  That
doesn't have much meaning unless you know what encoding those characters
were in when you pasted them.  They need to be in the same encoding as
the document you're pasting them in, which with XML you can set using
the "encoding" processing instruction.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ All the gods are dead except the god of war.
    -- Leroy Eldridge Cleaver


From gabor at z10n.net  Wed Mar 10 11:26:54 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:26:54 +0100
Subject: Unicode (Japanese) fonts in Images
In-Reply-To: <20040309173804.GK12662@unpythonic.net>
References: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>
	<mailman.181.1078850811.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94A7B1959BC78crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.205>
	<20040309173804.GK12662@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1078936014.8701.52.camel@dubb>

On Tue, 2004-03-09 at 18:38, Jeff Epler wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 23:12, Rich wrote:
> > >> kanji = u'\ufffe\ua295\uc07b
> On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:21:11PM +0000, Rich wrote:
> > I thought that saving them in notepad as unicode, then opening that in a 
> > hex editor and using the values was the way forward but obviously not :(
> 
> The file which looked like
>     FF FE A2 95 C0 7B
> is a probably utf-16 encoded with a BOM (byte-order mark) at the beginning.
> 
> You can convert this into a Python unicode string like so:
>     >>> "\xff\xfe\xa2\x95\xc0\x7b".decode('utf-16')
>     u'\u95a2\u7bc0'
> On my system, printing this to my terminal shows a pair of japanese-looking
> symbols.


when windows talks about unicode, he always means UTF-16. when linux
talks about unicode, he usually means UTF-8.

you have to be very careful which encodings you use.

for example if you save the stuff in notepad as 'unicode', imho it will
save them as UTF-16.


gabor




From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar  9 18:26:22 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:26:22 -0700
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <gljs40pbgso7373o6ahv578tqkf8hpalqm@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:18:28 GMT, "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote:

>Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in

I agree there are situations where GOTO is appropriate, but the real
question is - Do we want it in Python, given that *most*, even
moderately skilled users, will abuse this tempting statement, and the
effort in dealing with the consequences of this abuse will far exceed
the effort of working around the few cases where it would be nice.
Python, more than C++, is intended to be the *best* language for users
who are not full-time programmers.

I once had a boss who wrote a 70-page program in BASIC.  After a few
weeks, he gave up and expected me to fix it.  After seeing that the
whole thing was one module, laced with GOTO's, I told him that I could
re-write the whole thing in less time than it would take to debug his
program.  He did not want to hear that.  He also thought it would take
too much time to explain to me what the program was supposed to do!

-- Dave



From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 03:19:19 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 00:19:19 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<b840abf4.0403221108.7f5edd26@posting.google.com>
	<c3qdvr$b8n$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403240019.36288d6d@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote:
> > I'll miss the current behavior of import, though. Somehow it feels
> > more intuitive to me. Oh, well, practicality beats purity - or
> > personal taste...
> 
> You can still use classic import semantics, -<INTEGER> is optional.

By "current" I meant search in current package first. Anyway, I
thought it over and concluded that the behavior proposed in the PEP,
whether it makes more sense than what is now or not, is at least
closer to what is practiced on POSIX systems for search path: Current
directory is not in the search path, you have to say explicitly that
you're running the program from current dir (like "./script").

So, "pkg.inpkg.mod" is always absolute, ".mod" is similar to
"./script", and "-2.outpkg.mod" reads better than ".....outpkg.mod"
(analogous to "../../outdir/script").

Of other proposals, ".__parent__" is logical but introduces yet
another (long) name, and ".__pkg__" just doesn't say clearly that you
go upwards, so you might prefer ".__up__" instead. I still like
"-<INTEGER>." better though.

Just some morning wake-up thinking,

AdSR


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Mar  3 08:26:02 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 05:26:02 -0800
Subject: E-mail account disabling warning.
References: <mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403030526.728de57b@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.14.1078281489.728.python-list at python.org>...
> It shouldn't need to be said, but if you get a message that looks like this:
> 
> > Dear user of Python.org gateway e-mail server,
> >
> > We  warn  you about some attacks on your  e-mail account. Your
> > computer may contain viruses, in order to keep your computer and
> > e-mail account safe, please, follow the  instructions.
> >
> > For details see  the attached file.
> >
> > For  security  reasons attached file is password protected. The
> > password is "28132".
> >
> > Cheers,
> >     The Python.org team
> > http://www.python.org
> 
> it's not from anyone at python.org, and the zip file attached contains a
> Windows virus.  But if you run it anyway, I'm sure Guido will be happy to
> fly to your house and clean up your PC.
> 
> it's-the-least-he-could-do-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim

I have got today a very similar message, but from my University provider.
Notice that I had just asked the University support team about filtering 
my spam and the message seemed to refer to my request (the header was
smart enough).
Fortunately, I got suspicious when I was asked to run an executable 
and I asked to the University before. It is a very subtle virus!

I don't think SpamAssassin could have filtered it. The spammers are
evolving and becoming smarter and smarter, I fear the day they will
be able to pass the Turing tests and we will be no more able to
distinguish automatically generated spam from real e-mail ....

A frightening perspective!  :-/


            Michele


From oussoren at cistron.nl  Tue Mar 23 01:41:03 2004
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:41:03 +0100
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <e4e0340c.0403221615.356e8794@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<e4e0340c.0403221615.356e8794@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0DE0F193-7C95-11D8-8375-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>


On 23-mrt-04, at 1:15, Jess Austin wrote:

> I'll preface by saying that I haven't fully grokked all the possible
> uses of decorators.  Also, I can sympathize with the complaints about
> seeing a function definition and then seeing a classmethod call on
> that function 50 lines later (actually that seems like a case for
> refactoring but never mind).  b-)
>
> The brackets and the 'as' both seem awkward to me.  Also, introducing
> a requirement that definition and decoration take place on the same
> line seems to limit the the possibilities of decoration.  Perhaps my
> class wants to offer several faces of the same method:
>
> class foo(object):
>     def __foo_method(...)
>         ....
>     bar = decorator1(__foo_method)
>     baz = decorator2(__foo_method, arg1, arg2)
>
> I can't imagine the exact use for this, but I can imagine that there
> could be a use.  If the syntax remains as it is, that is.  This PEP
> seems to shoot itself in the foot in this respect.

The syntax in PEP318 is syntactic sugar for the most common use of 
function decorators, the current syntax would still be supported.

Ronald




From christian at mvonessen.de  Sun Mar 28 11:16:11 2004
From: christian at mvonessen.de (Christian von Essen)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:16:11 +0200
Subject: Where to offer simple apps
Message-ID: <c46tob$bkl$1@online.de>

Hi all

I've written a little .ini fileeditor, neither important nor good enough 
to become an own project, but for me important enough to want to get 
some feedback, as it is my first more or less sensible python 
application. Where is the best/a good place to offer this code and ask 
for feedback.

Well, it seems, that I already offer my code here ;)

The application consists of 442 lines in 2 files. I use Tkinter and my 
own ini-parser because I wanted to learn how to parse such a simple format.

Christian von Essen


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Wed Mar 31 15:01:57 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:01:57 +0200
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB65_1080763313_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124CF1@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm>

Sent:
57320704,29628251

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040331/7aa8fac7/attachment.bin>

From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 22:12:57 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:12:57 -0800
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <c9d82136.0403171114.18eb0a6a@posting.google.com>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c9d82136.0403161102.668feaa3@posting.google.com>
	<c37ugc$llq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c9d82136.0403171114.18eb0a6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3b49f$dna$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Noah wrote:

> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c37ugc$llq$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> 
>>>            r += xlate[ord(i)]
>>>            r += i
>>
>>Perhaps I'm going to have to create a signature and drop information 
>>about this in every post to c.l.py, but repeated string additions are 
>>slow as hell for any reasonably large lengthed string.  It is much 
>>faster to place characters into a list and ''.join() them.
> 
> 
> True. Is this better?
> 
>     ... body of latin1_to_ascii() ...
>     r = []
>     for i in unicrap:
>         if xlate.has_key(ord(i)):
>             r.append (xlate[ord(i)])
>         elif ord(i) >= 0x80:
>             pass
>         else:
>             r.append (i)
>     return ''.join(r)

I'd use:
''.join([xlate.get(ord(i), i) for i in unicrap \
           if ord(i) in xlate or ord(i) < 0x80]

Using r.append(), in general, while being faster than string addition, 
is significantly slower than using list comprehensions.

  - Josiah


From o_gloom at mail.com  Tue Mar  9 05:54:13 2004
From: o_gloom at mail.com (gloom)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 02:54:13 -0800
Subject: DispatchWithEvents when have internal COM interfaces
Message-ID: <9f115c52.0403090254.3ec6c567@posting.google.com>

Hey,

I'm trying to interface NeroSDK COM for burning CDRs.
Everything works fine, but I have problems figuring out how to handle
events which are not in the main COM object.

What I mean is that in the makepy generated source I see:
'class _INeroEvents' which correspond to
DispatchWithEvents("Nero.Nero", MyEventClass)

But I also have
class _INeroDriveEvents
which is part of:
class NeroDrive(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
	# NeroDrive Class
	CLSID = IID('{F3FBC8E7-93A3-11D4-8217-A85459000000}')
	coclass_sources = [
		_INeroDriveEvents,
	]
	default_source = _INeroDriveEvents
	coclass_interfaces = [
		INeroDrive2,
		INeroDrive,
	]
	default_interface = INeroDrive2


Now, usually I would do something like this:
nero = DispatchWithEvents("Nero.Nero", MyEventClass)
drives = nero.GetDrives(NERO_MEDIA_CD)
drive[0].DoSomethingThatGenerateAnEvent()

But I don't know how to pass an event handle to handle drive events.

This is what I get with GetDrives:
>>> a.GetDrives(constants.NERO_MEDIA_CD)
<win32com.gen_py.Nero 1.1 Type Library.INeroDrives instance at
0x19219160>


Further, in VB, the event functions of the drive are named:
drive_OnXXXX()

while event functions for nero main objects are named:
nero_OnXXXX()


I would gladly appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks a lot,
Omer.


From kbk at shore.net  Tue Mar 16 01:53:43 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:53:43 GMT
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.12.1079397872.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8765d51dvs.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> writes:

> At the end, and taking care of all that considerations, what is the
> recommended method to quit?

root.destroy()

-- 
KBK


From srijit at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 07:28:23 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 04:28:23 -0800
Subject: Statistical Techniques
References: <20040316223213.7981.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.101.1079553072.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0403180428.35bac013@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Scientific Python (http://dirac.cnrs-orleans.fr/ScientificPython/) has
a few statistical utilities. It may not be useful for the requirements
stated in the first post.

With regards,
Srijit

fedor <fedor at mailandnews.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.101.1079553072.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Two libraries which will interest can be found at:
> 
> http://rpy.sourceforge.net/ #use r from within python.
> http://www.scipy.org/ #scientific libraries.
> 
> Fedor
> 
> 
> 
> dont bother wrote:
> 
> > Hey,
> > I was just wondering if python has any support modules
> > for statistical techniques as Bayesian, Markovian
> > Style Models etc.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Mar  9 04:55:33 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 10:55:33 +0100
Subject: distutils: non-module compliation products
Message-ID: <tyfznaq5oq2.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

I have a Python package which uses some other shared libraries
(written in C++). These shared libraries should be placed somewhere
other than in the Python package itself.

So far, I am pretending that the shared libraries in question are
extension modules, which means that distutils compile them as if they
were Python extension modules and place them in the location specified
by --install-lib (or options similar to --install-lib).

Does distutils provide be any means of

a) placing the auxiliary shared libraries outside --install-lib

b) compiling the libraries without all the Python extension-module
   gubbins ?


IOW, does distutils have a concept of a compliation product which is
not an extension module ?


From anthony at interlink.com.au  Sat Mar  6 21:01:51 2004
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:01:51 +1100
Subject: twisted.protocols.sip
In-Reply-To: <b2b56$404a7202$cff549e4$2958@dcanet.allthenewsgroups.com>
References: <b2b56$404a7202$cff549e4$2958@dcanet.allthenewsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <404A828F.5010308@interlink.com.au>

SPD wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
>   I'm new to Python and Twisted but not new to
> programming. I need to create a test tools to
> send and receive Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
> messages. I understand twisted.protocols.sip
> offers this capability but I cannot get a demo
> program to work. Does anyone have a basic
> example program they can share?

Look at shtoom - http://shtoom.sf.net/. It's
hardly a 'basic example program', but it's
instead a framework for SIP.

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.



From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 19:54:08 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 00:54:08 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <4066233C.56E5D3DD@doe.carleton.ca>


"Tassilo v. Parseval" wrote:
> 
> Also sprach Fred Ma:
> 
> > No XML processing or database interaction in what I do.
> 
> Who knows, though. The desire to do certain things grows with the skills one
> acquired.

You might be right.  Some digital CAD data is stored in XML.

> This is a strong reason to use Perl. While it may not always be desirable to
> toe the line, here it is. The availability of tools that can easily be
> integrated into one's own work will save you a lot of work on the long run. I
> didn't know that Perl was particularly strong in the field of IC design. If
> so, good then.
> 
> Apart from this particular case, it's generally a good thing when pre-written
> code exists that can be used. The amount of such code for Perl is immense
> (several thousand libraries) and gathered all in one place (the CPAN) with a
> unified interface to access and install them and a vast infrastructure built
> around it.
> 
> I don't know how much or whether at all the situation for Python has
> significantly improved over the recent past. A while ago at least there was no
> such thing.

   SNIP

> As with text processing, both Python and Perl offer all the essential things
> needed for that. On a cursory glance, the score of them is tied.
> 
> Perl wins when it comes to one-liners and maybe replacing shell scripts.  As I
> tend to forget the syntax of bash's scripting language easily, I've replaced
> it entirely with Perl.
> 
> Perl's bad reputation for big projects is probably due to the variance of
> those people using Perl. One large group is sys-admins who use Perl in an
> entirely different way as compared to someone building larger systems.
> However, there are enough very large Perl projects that show that it can be
> used for that just as easily (at least as long as one keeps the sys-admins
> away from the source;-).
> 
> > I've seen mention of parrot and perl6, which is quite a ways off.  I'm not
> > sure how much that should weigh into my decision, since it isn't real yet.
> 
> It shouldn't. Perl6 is mostly yet another leap towards fitness for large
> projects. I don't think it will gain much for those more hackish tasks.  Also,
> no one quite knows when Perl6 will be due.


Thanks for the commentary on Perl, for clarifying the source of unweldiness in
big Perl projects, as well as its nonuniversality.

Fred


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Mar  5 15:49:00 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:49:00 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
References: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8eOSAls/KLhU089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list at python.org>,
"jon c" <jon_couchman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>well the cammand is
>>>
>>>java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries
>>>application-name
>>>
>>>the total string is 6809 characters long.
>>>
>>>I do not know the allowed character length (I am using windows 2000)
>>>
>>>but perl just runs the command fine, whereas python results in
>>>
>>>The following character string is too long:
>
>>Is that coming from Windows or Python?  If the latter, give us the full
>>exception message, which will say from where in Python.  Also, try putting
>>the long string in a .bat file and running the .bat file by itself and then
>>from Python.
>
>>Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>the error is coming from windows!
>
>the error message is as I wrote it.
>
>if you try and execute the command directly from bat you get the error input
>line too long!
>
>can perl be somehow bypassing the windows terminal and running the command
>directly (does this make sense?)


Avoiding the command line might help.  This runs in WinNT 4:



#=======================================
"""test_huge_command.py
"""
import os

command = r'e:\bin\python23\python.exe'

pid = os.spawnv (os.P_WAIT, command
                , [command, 'number_args.py']
                    + ['arg-%d'%(i,) for i in xrange (1000)]
        )



#=======================================
"""number_args.py
"""
import sys

argc = len (sys.argv)
print "Called with %d arguments" % (argc,)
for i in xrange (min (3, argc)):
    print "%d\t%s" % (i, sys.argv[i])
for i in xrange (max (3, argc-3), argc):
    print "%d\t%s" % (i, sys.argv[i])
print



#=======================================
f:\home\mwilson\projects\python>python test_huge_command.py
Called with 1001 arguments
0       number_args.py
1       arg-0
2       arg-1
998     arg-997
999     arg-998
1000    arg-999



        Regards.        Mel.


From hmessinger.removethis at comcast.net  Sun Mar 14 15:43:07 2004
From: hmessinger.removethis at comcast.net (Harlan Messinger)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:43:07 -0500
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
Message-ID: <bug9509f2g6j80frqn4b0b3oombco0qo59@4ax.com>

line_guibert-wolff at hc-sc.gc.ca (montezum) wrote:

>where can I find Paris Hilton video?

Why not ask in a more pertinent newsgroup like, say, rec.knitting?

-- 
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ?ter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 22:52:25 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 03:52:25 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<2ae25c6b.0403271814.5d789e9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40664D05.9BB91F46@doe.carleton.ca>

Hi, Paddy,

Wow, there's more information coming in than I expected.  Having
a bit of a nonengineering day (at least not at the ground level)
keeping up.  I did ask for it.

Paddy McCarthy wrote:
> 
> Hi Fred,
> If there are particular C/C++ packages of algorithms that you use then
> you might try searching for the package name +python on the web. You
> might find someone who has already turned the library into aPython
> module.

Actually, verilator (does verilog to SystemC, which is a C++ library
that provides HDL simulation capability) is a Perl-based module.

As for the glue functionality I need to modify the my original verilog
source, there's no specific functionality.  I'm still trying to think
of ways in which to modify to code to work around the translation
limitations of verilator.  So the filter will be very much ad-hoc.

> There are several Scientific libraries for Python that have good
> graphing capabilities as well as speed advantages for certain
> operations. - Try installing the Enthought Python distribution for
> windows at: http://www.enthought.com/python/
> 
> Another good page is ScriptEDA:
> http://www-cad.eecs.berkeley.edu/~pinhong/scriptEDA/ - I was using the
> gate-level verilog parser a month ago.

Wow.  The screen shots on for enthought are impressive.  The software at
scriptEDA reminds me that I'm an a newbie in this area.  The level to
which interfacing environments and languages have been brought boggles
the mind.  I think that I need to take a bite of Perl and/or Python
before I even consider looking at the offerings there with any degree
of appreciation.  For the computation engine and post-process/graphing,
I'll stick with C++/matlab for now, due to lack of thesis time, and
because I've got a familiar system (or "idiom"?) setup to use them
together.  As I mentioned in another post, I'll start with Perl as
the starting point, and keep tabs on Python, something that is feasible
because of its readability.

> On Scripting language choice, I find TCL to be in many EDA tools, but
> its datastructures and syntax  make it a language I use when I have
> to, rather than a language of choice.
> 
> Perl IS used a lot in EDA but I like to think of it as being dangerous
> in a lot of hands as great Engineers start scripting larger and larger
> applications in Perl and usually end up with something that is hard to
> maintain and hard to write. Perl does have its sweet spot - I do like
> the `perl -p -i -e` mewthod of making sed like alterations to files
> in-place, butthe languages support for subroutine arguments - compared
> to Pythons; and the need to compute and pass around references to
> lists and hashes for simple nested datastructures - things like that
> shout small programs only to me.

I got the same impression, but there have been other explanations given
in this thread for the unweldiness of big projects, as well as the fact
that this is not universal.  Myself, I will be using "P..." for glue
functionality, so I won't run the risk of creating dangerously
unmaintainable code (finger crossed here).  Besides, it's for the thesis,
which has to be finished soon, so I won't have the problem of looking
back a ways to figure out code written long ago.  By the time I get to
an industrial situation (fingers crossed, since jobs are leaving North
America), I hope to have a bit for breathing time to ramp up on Python.

> Python is my language of choice for a large amount of programming in
> the EDA field (when given the choince :-).
> 
> Perl has a large library, Python has a large library - what you need
> to do is do some web searches for libraries in your field to see which
> is more appropriate -

Well...I did it...verilog to SystemC boils down to verilator unless one
has money to shell out.  Despite its professed limitations, I am still
astounded to read even the help pages.  That degree of sophistication,
for free.  Kind of makes the thesis look like small time, though of
course, the challenges are of a different nature.

> When I have to write an algorithm from scratch then I do it in Python.
> It does get out of the way and allow me to concentrate on the
> algorithm most of the time. (Although I wish it had constrained random
> generation of integers like Vera or Specman :-).
> 
> I hope I've helped,  Paddy.

A great deal.  Thanks.

Fred


From tbettio at transnorm.ch  Wed Mar 10 18:02:29 2004
From: tbettio at transnorm.ch (Tiziano Bettio)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:02:29 +0100
Subject: How to simulate a TTY with popen2?
Message-ID: <c2o6pe$dn8$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hi Everybody,

I'm stuck trying to write a python module for the vlc videoplayer on 
linux (http://www.videolan.org). I'm using the popen2 module to open a 
pipe to the program. If I open the vlc player in a shell it recognizes 
that I'm running it from a TTY.
Same command with popen2-4 and the vlc doesn't seem to find a TTY so it 
tries to open a gui and fails resulting in ending itself.

So here's my question:
Is there a way to open a pipe in python imitating a TTY or am I doing 
something completely wrong?

Greetz TC


From llothar at web.de  Fri Mar  5 19:04:43 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 16:04:43 -0800
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
References: <mailman.4.1078428023.679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403051604.3ae4e57a@posting.google.com>

"Maru, Mulugeta" <mmaru at visiontv.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.4.1078428023.679.python-list at python.org>...
> What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL to develop a database
>  driven intranet? Do I need to use any framework or application server? I
> f I do please kindly direct me where to go. 
> Many thanks. 
> MM
> 

Look at the "webware" project at "www.sourceforge.net"
If your application has a lot of logic or cacheable data this should
be preferred over Quixote and Zope.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Mar 11 09:32:55 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:32:55 -0700
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
References: <404FE8DD.5090202@sstar.com>
Message-ID: <04ba01c40775$bfb69ac0$6401fea9@YODA>

John wrote:
> >> I have tried PostGreSQL, PyGreSQL, pypgsql, psycopg, and PDO and have
> >> yet to connect to PostgreSQL 7.4 (.1 in one box, .2 in the other).
> >>
> >> With PostGreSQL-3.4 and pypgsql-2.4, using setup.py build results in
> >> "error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1."
> >>
> >> I couldn't install psycopg-1.1.11 because it asks for PgSql header
> >> files; the only one I can identify is postgres.h.
> >
> >
> Dave Brueck wrote:
> I've been using pyscopg-1.1.11 with PostgreSQL 7.4 and Python 2.3 on Mandrake
> 9.2 and have found it to work really well for my needs. To get it to build I
> had to do
>
> cp -r postgres-7.4/src/include/catalog /usr/local/pgsql/include/
>
> to get the headers in the right place. Also had to install mxDateTime first.
>
> HTH,
> -Dave
>
*******************************************************************************
*****
> This looked like exactly what I need. But after I copied the header files as
you instructed, I still got "configure: error:
> missing PostgreSQL headers." I tried with and without the trailing /, with
and without /catalog, all to no avail.

Here's the configure command I used, don't know if it will help you at all:

./configure --with-postgres-libraries=/usr/local/pgsql/lib
--with-postgres-includes=/usr/local/pgsql/include
--with-zope=/home/dave/Zope261
--with-mxdatetime-includes=/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateT
ime

-Dave




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Mar  9 03:21:19 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:21:19 +1100
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <404D5E06.7000303@zoran.com>
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<404D5E06.7000303@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <20040309082119.GA6896@frobozz>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:02:46AM +0200, Miki Tebeka wrote:
> Jim Benson wrote:
> 
> >1) Freeware (desired)
> >2) Runs on Linux (required)
> >3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> >4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)  
> >5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions 
> >   data elements in the file. (required)
> VIm (http://vim.sf.net) gives you 1-4. If you use ctags you can have 5 
> as well.

taglist.vim (which requires ctags) can also help with browsing and
navigating methods.

Even without ctags, 5 is somewhat available thanks to folding.

-Andrew.




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Mar 28 02:42:39 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 23:42:39 -0800
Subject: Appreciation for the importance of readability (was: Choosing
	Perl/Python for my particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106ce9eaed1sk61@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403272342.242bae89@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<106ce9eaed1sk61 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Some scientists are very successful with "slash-and-burn"
> techniques.  That manifests itself in this area as "con-
> science-free" coding:  they write whatever programs get
> them the results they're after, and don't care that no
> one else can reproduce their results, nor can they them-
> selves, six months later.  A LOT of that goes on.
> 
> It makes me uncomfortable.  A lesson I've learned over
> and over is that computer programs live far longer than
> you expect.  It pays to do 'em better at the beginning,
> 'cause you're likely to live with them quite a while.
> 
> I'm not a successful scientist, though; odds are long
> against me ever being one.
> 

The relation between programming and science is rather complex.
There are still lots of sciences where the programming part is
very minor and the "slash-and-burn" technique is the right thing
to do. For instance, I have worked with very successful scientists
using "slash-and-burn". Their requirements were the following:

1. we want to spend at most 5% of our time doing coding and 95% doing
   science;
2. our group is composed by two persons and our code will never be
   released;
3. if a Ph. D. student reach the group and has to study the code, we 
   will explain it to him in person;
4. the largest program we will ever write is a thousand lines long;
   for the rest we will use standard routines and write as little code
   as possible;
5. we don't care at all about fancy graphics: the output will be a list
   of numbers write on a file and displayed by gnuplot; 
6. all we care is numerical performance in floating point computations;
   the logic of the program will be trivial.

They actually used old fashioned Fortran 77 and I think they made the perfect 
choice given their requirements; they essentially had to do numerical 
integrations and solving differential equations, tasks were Fortran is
incredibly strong. Other persons I know doing particle Physics and doing a 
good deal of programming (good deal means something like 50% of their time
spent on programming; spending more than 50% means that you are actually
a programmer, and scientists don't want to do that) were using a mixture
of Fortran and C. Here I am referring to people doing numerically
intensive tasks; I have seen a trend to switch to C++ for large projects,
since there is a perception than C++ scales better than Fortran. In
any case, the core routines are still in Fortran and always will be.
For scripting tasks, scripting languages are used; I know a few
astronomers who were using Perl to control the telescope movement.
Many physicists/astronomers use Python too. Specialized languages
and tools (Mathematica, Maple, Matlab, Octave, Yorick, etc. etc.)
have their place.

Finally, it may be weird in XXI century, but there are still scientists 
not doing programming. For instance, the only programming language I used 
for my scientific research was Latex, to write the papers; my reseach tools 
were paper and pencil and blackboard, which are still as effective as
ever.

             Michele Simionato


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 12 12:42:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:42:06 -0600
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16465.63086.218976.55570@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least
    >> until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one
    >> problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its
    >> behaviour.

    David> It's worse than just a surprise.  It's a serious problem when
    David> what you need to do is what most people are expecting -- replace
    David> every reference to objects in the old module with references to
    David> the new objects.  The problem becomes a near impossibility when
    David> those references are scattered throughout a multi-module program.

This is where I think your model of how Python works has broken down.
Objects don't live within modules.  References to objects do.  All objects
inhabit a space not directly associated with any particular Python
namespace.  If I execute

    import urllib
    quote = urllib.quote
    reload(urllib)

quote and urllib.quote refer to different objects and compare False.  (I
suppose the cmp() routine for functions could compare code objects and other
attributes which might change.)  The object referred to by urllib.quote is
not bound in any other way to the urllib module other than the reference
named "quote" in the urllib module's dict.  reload() simply decrements the
reference count to urllib, which decrements the reference count to its dict,
which causes it to clean up and decrement the reference count for all its
key/value pairs.

    David> For the *exceptional* case where we want to pick and chose which
    David> objects to update, seems like the best solution would be to add
    David> some options to the reload function.

    David> def reload(<module>, objects = '*'):

    David> The default second argument '*' updates all references.  '?'
    David> prompts for each object.  A list of objects updates references to
    David> just those objects automatically.  'None' would replicate the
    David> current behavior, updating only the name of the module itself.

If you want to implement this and all you're interested in are class,
function and method definitions and don't care about local variables I think
you can make a reasonable stab at this.  I wouldn't recommend you overload
reload() with this code, at least not initially.  Write a super_reload() in
Python.  If/when you get that working, then rewrite it in C, then get that
working, then you're free to recommend that the builtin reload() function be
modified.

    David> I don't understand.  My assumption is you would normally update
    David> all references to the selected objects in all namespaces.

As Denis Otkidach pointed out in response to an earlier post of mine,
objects on shared free lists can't be rebound using this mechanism.  I think
it's safe initially to restrict super_reload() to classes, functions and
methods.

Skip




From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 15:18:34 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:18:34 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.29.1079375343.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ji3c50hjb88fiq0c6l83a6l8mh0i4lg2qj@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:28:50 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    >> In general, I don't think that disabling immutable object sharing
>    >> would be worth the effort.  Consider the meaning of module level
>    >> integers.  In my experience they are generally constants and are
>    >> infrequently changed once set.  Probably the only thing worth
>    >> tracking down during a super reload would be function, class and
>    >> method definitions.
>
>    Dave> If you reload a module M1, and it has an attribute M1.x, which was
>    Dave> changed from '1' to '2', we want to change also any references
>    Dave> that may have been created with statements like 'x = M1.x', or
>    Dave> 'from M1 import *' If we don't do this, reload() will continue to
>    Dave> baffle and frustrate new users.  Typically, they think they have
>    Dave> just one variable 'x'
>
>Like I said, I think that sort of change will be relatively rare.

I think wanting to change numbers in a reloaded module is very common.
  
>Just tell your users, "don't do that".

The problem is the complexity of "that" which they can and cannot do.
Even renouned text authors don't seem to explain it clearly.  I'm
opting now for "don't do anything" to try and make it simple.  By that
I mean - Don't expect reloads to update anything but the reference to
the reloaded module itself.  This is simple, just not very convenient.

>    Dave> I'm having trouble understanding the benefit of using shared
>    Dave> objects for simple numbers and strings.
>
>Can you say "space and time savings"?  Ints are 12 bytes, strings are 24
>bytes (plus the storage for the string), None is 8 bytes.  It adds up.

Maybe you can save a significant amount of memory by having all the
*system* modules share a common 'None' object, but when a user
explicitly says 'M1.x = None', surely we can afford a 8 bytes to
provide a special None for that reference.

I'm no expert on these implementation issues, but these numbers seem
small compared to the 512MB in a typical modern PC.  I suppose there
are some rare cases where you need to create an array of millions of
references to a single constant.  In those cases the debug mode may be
too much of a burden.  In general, we ought to favor simplicity over
efficiency.

>More importantly, small ints, interned strings and None would constantly be
>created and freed.  The performance savings of sharing them are probably
>much more important.

Again, as a non-expert, this seems strange.  The burden of comparing a
new object to what is already in memory, using an '==' type of
comparison, must be comparable to simply creating a new object.

>Finally, from a semantic viewpoint, knowing that None is defined by the
>language to be a singleton object allows the more efficient "is" operator to
>be used when testing objects against None for equality.  If you allowed many
>copies of that object that wouldn't work.

We would lose some, assuming '==' for these small obects is slower
than 'is', but then you would not have to test '==' on a large number
of objects already in memory each time you define a new integer or
small string.

>    Dave> We should at least have a special 'debug' mode in which the hidden
>    Dave> sharing of objects is disabled for selected modules. 
>
>It might help with your problem but would change the semantics of the
>language.

I assume you are referring to the symantics of 'is' when working with
small objects like None, 2, 'abc'.  I agree, that is a problem for the
proposed debug mode.  I don't see a way around it, other than warning
users not to expect modules imported in the debug mode to optimize the
sharing of small objects in memory.  Use 'x == 2' rather than 'x is 2'
if you intend to use the debug mode.

-- Dave



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 18 10:15:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:15:58 -0600
Subject: dictionary wart
In-Reply-To: <LKh6c.11860$g4.239900@news2.nokia.com>
References: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
	<7xr7vquwpo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<LKh6c.11860$g4.239900@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <16473.48430.533574.268507@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jesper> For instance in a dictionary which is mapping strings to
    Jesper> integers (or lists), I would like to do

    Jesper> a[my_key]+=5

    Jesper> expressing that with get() would be awkward.

Though not *terribly* awkward:

    a[my_key] = a.get(my_key, 0) + 5

I agree it's a bit clumsy, but I think it's the best you can do if you don't
want to subclass dict (I don't really like {}.setdefault()):

    class ddict(dict):
        def __init__(self, default=None, init=True):
            self.default = default
            self.init = init

        def __getitem__(self, key):
            if key in self:
                return self.get(key)
            else:
                if self.init:
                    self[key] = self.default
                return self.default

    d = ddict(default="Jesper", init=False)
    print "abc" in d
    print d["abc"]
    d = ddict(default=0)
    d["abc"] += 5
    print d["abc"]

I suspect there's more to it than I've implemented, but that should get you
pointed in the right direction.

Skip



From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Mar 26 03:02:43 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:02:43 +0100
Subject: How do i cast a string to be used as a module?
In-Reply-To: <9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277@fed1read03>
References: <9kM8c.46388$Bg.39277@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <c40o27$qd5$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>

sean a ?crit :
> In article <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601 at fed1read07>,
> sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry) writes:
> 
>>I don't know that this partilarily bad programming,
>>but I was interested in doing the following.
>>
>>def functionname( module, var1, var2 ):
>>import module
>>
>>I would like to be able to pass the module name
>>as an argument and have the module imported as a result.
>>
>>For instance... functionname( os, "1", 234)
>>
>>Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help, and exec("import "+modname)
> does indeed import the module.
> 
> But, what if I want to call a function from within this
> module that takes as an argument the name of a module.
> 
> For example if I was making a module like the following
> 
> import inspect
> 
> def functionname( modname ):
>     exec("import "+modname)
>     s = inspect.getsource( modname )
>     return s
> 
> How do I cast modname as a module name and not as a string?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 


 >>> exec("import chunk")
 >>> globals()["chunk"]
<module 'chunk' from 'chunk.pyc'>

or even simplier :

 >>> __import__("chunk")
<module 'chunk' from 'chunk.pyc'>


Yermat



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Mar 24 15:41:52 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:41:52 -0600
Subject: Simple raster graphics ? How do I ...
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1acbebbe56e964e0989684@news.teleline.es> (Ray Molacha's
	message of "Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:02:25 GMT")
References: <MPG.1acbebbe56e964e0989684@news.teleline.es>
Message-ID: <m2smfynfjj.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Ray" == Ray Molacha <ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk> writes:

    Ray> Hi Everybody.  I'm learning Python on a Windows computer,
    Ray> using PythonWin.

    Ray> I'd like to be able to do some simple raster graphics, like
    Ray> clearing the screen and plotting a point of some color. I
    Ray> want to plot some fractals and math functions just for fun. I
    Ray> understand the math ok -- I don't know how to do simple
    Ray> raster graphics.

matplotlib may do what you want - http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net.
If you take fractal data and load it into an MxN Numeric array, you
can display it with a colormap with the plotting command imshow (image
show).

To plot simple math functions, you can do things like

  t = arange(0.0, 1.0, 0.01)
  plot(t, sin(2*pi*t))

It's not a low level drawing program, but it is a high level plotting
program that may do what you need.  You can use it to create simple
images to view in the viewer of your choice, or use of the GUI
interfaces (GTK, WX, Tk) and to view your figure with navigation
controls.

Check the screenshots section for samples plots and the scripts that
produced them

http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

If you want low level control over raster graphics, you have lots of
choices.  pygtk with gtk.gdk.Drawable and gtk.DrawingArea is one that
is fast and cross platform; it also comes with nice widgets.  A wx
canvas is another alternative, or PIL, or .....

JDH



From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 07:59:55 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 04:59:55 -0800
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.336.1080136535.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403250459.2e662035@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.336.1080136535.742.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "ketulp" == ketulp baroda <ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     ketulp> Hi, all I want to sort the list,the form of my list is
> 
>     ketulp>   name_city_list=[['jack','new
>     ketulp> york'],['mac','london'],['alice','paris']]
> 
>     ketulp> all inner list has same format i.e first is name and
>     ketulp> second is city.  now I want to sort it by the second
>     ketulp> element of the inner list(by city name).
> 
>     ketulp> i.e after sorting my list should be like this
> 
> The usual way is to simply reverse the tuple, sort, and then reverse
> back
> 
>   tmp = [ (city, name) for name, city in name_city_list]
>   tmp.sort()
>   name_city_list = [ (name, city) for city, name in tmp]
> 
> This is usually faster than writing a custom comparison func for sort.
> 
> JDH

Hi, John

I like ur idea but this will work for only when inner list has only
two elements. if inner list has five elements and i want to sort the
whole list by 3rd element then how can i do this ?

need ur help,
regards


From oleksik at galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl  Tue Mar 30 11:38:11 2004
From: oleksik at galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl (Pawel Oleksik)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:38:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pyrex+Numeric
Message-ID: <c4c7pj$li$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>

Hi,

I have no idea, how to properly declare/use Numeric functions in pyrex.
For example the code below causes segmentation fault:

--in pyrex--------------
[... some lines from Pyrex-0.9/Demos/numeric_demo.pyx, plus: ]

cdef extern from "Numeric/arrayobject.h":

	object PyArray_ContiguousFromObject ( object, int, int, int )

def contiguous_tst ( ArrayType A ) :

    if A.nd != 1 :
        raise ValueError("1D array expected.")
        
    B = PyArray_ContiguousFromObject(<object>A,A.descr.type,1,1)

    print '***'

    return B


--in python--------------
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> A = array((1,2,3,4,5))
>>> contiguous_tst(A)

My environment is 'quite new': python 2.3.3, Numeric 23.1, pyrex 0.9.

I hope you will give me some light on this problem, please.

Best regards
p.o.


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Mar 24 15:50:02 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 12:50:02 -0800
Subject: Getting username and passwd from IE
References: <6b13855b.0403240446.7206703b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403241250.9a8b572@posting.google.com>

mgb at mgbeckett.com (Martin Beckett) wrote:

>      self.send_response(401)
>      self.end_headers()
>      return

Don't know about BaseHTTPServer in particular, but in general 401 must be
used in conjunction with the WWW-Authenticate response header, or the browser
won't know what kind of authentication to send.

  self.send_header('WWW-Authenticate', 'basic realm="Fab site"')

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Wed Mar 24 08:56:25 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:56:25 -0500
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <brg8c.18665$A_2.958214@news20.bellglobal.com>


<ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, all
>
>  I want to sort the list,the form of my list is
>
>   name_city_list=[['jack','new york'],['mac','london'],['alice','paris']]
>
> all inner list has same format i.e first is name and second is city.
> now I want to sort it by the second element of the inner list(by city
name).
>
> i.e after sorting my list should be like this
>
>   name_city_list=[['mac','london'],['jack','new york'],['alice','paris']]
>
> how can I do this,
>
> any way out ?

name_city_list.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))




From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Sun Mar  7 20:36:28 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 01:36:28 GMT
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc4njgs.9pk.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net>
wrote on Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:57:29 -0800:
> Problems with "print"
> 	New users are constantly asking how to print elements without
> 	trailing whitespace.

  And they are then constantly told to use formatted strings, which are
the next logical step up:
print "%s%s" % (a, b)

  If the trailing newline is the problem:
sys.stdout.write("%s%s" % (a, b))

> 	The use of a trailing comma to disable newline has no clear
> 	relation to any other syntax elsewhere in Python.

  It is familiar to BASIC programmers, but it's certainly not a pythonic
idiom.

> 	The cheveron syntax is similarly unique.

  (">>object", aka "chevron", for those who don't recognize that term)

  It is familiar to Unix programmers for redirecting output.  It's not
pythonic, but not entirely alien.

> 	"print" is the one of only two statement-generating keywords
> 	that is not a flow-control or scope-control operator.

  Why does this matter?

> 	Because print is a statement, it cannot be used in contexts
> 	like list comprehensions and lambda functions.

  You can use sys.stdout.write() instead, or if you like print's
intelligent spaces, you write a minimal utility function:
def show(s):
    print s,
    return s

> 	The word "print" is very common in English usage and would be
> 	very useful for method and function names. It is  a (very)
> 	long-term goal of this PEP to free it up for this purpose.

  That will never happen, because it would break an enormous amount of
code.

  "print" means "display on the console" in most programming languages.
Printing to paper is uncommon and hopefully becoming less common.  What
else are you going to do in a function called "print"?

> 	"print" is one of the first thing a Python newbie learns but
> 	learning it teaches very little about the rest of the language.
> 	All of the idiosyncratic syntax you learn will never be seen
> 	again elsewhere in the language and 99.9% of non-control flow
> 	operations are performed with functions, not statements.

  Newbies are not taught the entire syntax of print at once.  They learn
to assemble a few comma-delimited items, and it "just works" at putting
spaces and newlines in the right place.

  The more advanced uses were probably inappropriate additions.
Eliminating those so print is a simple construct again would be better
than removing and replacing it, but I don't see a convincing case for
it.

> Proposed solution: "show"
> 
> 	I propose a new built-in function called "show". It can take an
> 	arbitrary number of positional arguments and three optional
> 	keyword arguments:

-1

  Anything print isn't suitable for at present, sys.stdout.write() and
formatted strings are.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." -Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Mar 10 20:54:45 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:54:45 +0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7iznao6tcq.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "David" == David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

    David> Wouldn't it be nice, for example, if instead of special keywords
    David> like 'lambda' and 'yield', we had used '@(args)' and '@return'.
    David> ( No, I'm not advocating we go back and change what has been
    David> done.)  In both these cases, we had a well-established syntax
    David> that needed a slight variation.

I don't think it is an improvement.  If you get puzzled reading a program
with lambda expressions, you remember that you conveniently skipped reading
"lambda" in the docs.  If you read a program with generator, you know the
"yield" section at the new Python docs will help.  Both is very clear
mentally: you can easily recall what you've learnt.  If you read a program
containing silly @, where should you look?  And will you still remember it
after 2 years of programming solely in Perl?  I think everybody trying to
add language construct should remember "explicit is better than implicit".

    David> The 'lambda function' for example, was needed to cram a small
    David> block of code into a tight space.  By saying '@x,y:' instead of
    David> 'lambda x,y:', we not only avoid the need for a new keyword, but
    David> we better serve the purpose of tightly packing some code.  We
    David> would also avoid mystifying beginners.  "It has no magic meaning.
    David> It's just a way to write a function without a name."

There is no real need to "cram a small block of code into a tight space":
your space is unlimited when writing programs.  There are times when you
should want using less space: when you are expressing a sequence of really
simple things.  If you are writing something as complicated as a "lambda x,
y: ..." and that "..." can't be put into your program conveniently, the odds
are that it really takes effort to understand that part.  Then I don't think
that one really should try to put it into less space.

Regards,
Isaac.


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Mar 22 15:22:14 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:22:14 -0500
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.230.1079954390.742.python-list@python.org>
	<blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <VUH7c.10541$re.750713@news20.bellglobal.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu at 4ax.com...

> If we want to set variables in intermediate scopes, I would prefer a
> syntax like:
>
> b = 1
> def f():
> a = 2
> def g():
> global.f.a = 3
> global.b = 4
>
> Of course, this means we also have to allow functions to have
> attributes.
>

Hi.
I know what you meant but, technically, functions can and do have
attributes, just not the kind you've mentioned (where the locals become
attributes of their function):

>>> def f(): pass
...
>>> f.a = "A"
>>> f.a
'A'
>>>

Just so things are clear for those following along ...

Sean




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 11 10:41:09 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:41:09 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <EO%3c.2675$G3.20988@localhost>

Josef Meile wrote:
>>>>>> a='test'
>>>>>> if a.find('foo'):
>>>
>>>
>>> ...    print "foo was found"
>>> ...
>>> foo was found
>>
>>
>>
>> a.find does not return a boolean, so that particular style guideline
>> does not apply.
> 
> I know, but I found this on the Zope source, which
> means that there is people thinking that the False
> on python includes negative values.

I believe it's more likely they just forgot what find() did return, as 
they were writing the code.  I've done the same, thinking it was a 
boolean, not thinking that it returned a negative but that negatives 
were considered false.

-Peter


From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 23:17:52 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:17:52 -0700
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>

On 15 Mar 2004 16:32:25 -0800, axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt) wrote:

>is there a rationale for the following behavior:
>
>  >>> a = (1,2)
>  >>> b = (1,2)
>  >>> a is b
>  False
>  >>> a = "12"
>  >>> b = "12"
>  >>> a is b
>  True

Here's another one:
>>> x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
>>> y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
>>> x is y
True
>>> x = 'a b'
>>> y = 'a b'
>>> x is y
False
>>> x == y
True
>>> 

It has to do with how Python decides which strings to "internalize"
and make shared objects in order to save space.  This is only a
problem with immutable objects.  Others cannot be shared like this.

My suggestion is to *never* use 'is' with these objects unless you
really need the fact that it is faster than '==' and you test it
thoroughly for the kind of objects you will be comparing.

-- Dave



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 23 13:48:53 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:48:53 -0600
Subject: Suitability of python to specific project
In-Reply-To: <200403231722.i2NHMCb27223@omail2.walla.co.il>
References: <200403231722.i2NHMCb27223@omail2.walla.co.il>
Message-ID: <20040323184852.GJ24314@unpythonic.net>

If you want to run a program on a modern computer, you'll never be free
from "small bugs [that] appear on one computer and not on another".
You can't choose a programming language that somehow makes the OS not
flaky and prone to truly bizarre failures.

Back in the days of 4K basic (or on a modern microcontroller with just a
few kwords of program space), sure, but not when your OS, network stack,
windowing system, widget set, and language interpreter are all at least
a half a million lines big... when any major component could actually be
one of a half dozen or more similar but not identical parts (CPU, video
card, network interface, etc), and the performance or capacity of the
components might vary 10:1 or even 100:1 across machines you'd like
to support.

That said, I find my Python and Python+Tkinter programs to run well
on the systems I commonly use, mostly Linux but occasionally Windows.
On the other hand, my worst experiences have come when I've tried to
use Python with proprietary Microsoft components (MS Access)...

Jeff



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  8 09:50:18 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:50:18 -0600
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <20040308145018.GC12662@unpythonic.net>

[Attribution helpfully discarded by Mr. Binns] wrote:
> > Yuck.  Bletch.  Barf.
> 
On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 09:09:58PM -0800, Roger Binns wrote:
> Care to expand on that?

Start with this code:

    for x in range(10):
        for y in range(10):
            if hit(x, y): break 2

Now, add z:
    for x in range(10):
        for y in range(10):
            for z in range(10):
                if hit(x, y, z): break 2

Look, a bug!

With this "feature", you have to scan the entire body of the loop
looking for a numeric break/continue if you're going to change the
indentation level, then increment or decrement the number.

If somebody was holding a gun to my head, I'd suggest that a way to name
loops was preferable to both this idiom and having my brains blown out:
    for x in range(10) label outermost:
        (other intervening control statements)
            break outermost
I believe this abomination can even be done without actually reserving
"label" as a keyword, just like "from" in "import ... from", except for
the problem that the somewhat perverse
    for x in 1, label outermost:
would be 2-tuple (1, label) followed by an illegal token "outermost".

.. and in the absence of coercive force, I'd -1 this suggestion too.

Jeff



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 15 18:16:23 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:16:23 -0600
Subject: dislin / PIL / cropping EPS
References: <c32t8r$bc7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hZmdnd1hccLbpMvdRVn-ug@comcast.com>

Take a look at imagemagick (which has python interface).

http://www.imagemagick.org/

I don't know for sure about clipping EPS, but when I
looked at it, I thought it was more powerful than PIL.

If the ultimate destination of the output is actually .PDF
instead of Word, take a look at ReportLab and ReportLab Graphics.
Depending on what the graphics are like out of dislin, you
might be able to do it all in ReportLab.

www.reportlab.org

-Larry Bates


"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c32t8r$bc7$1 at newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hello,
>          Can anyone advise me how to crop an EPS image generated by
dislin.
> I can't figure out how to crop the image before generating it.  Using PIL
to
> crop the generated image I get an IOError (apparently because I'm using
> Windows).  I could use other file formats, but I'm not too keen on the
> results I'm getting from using e.g. .tif.  Basically I need to copy
> (publication quality) images created in dislin and paste them into word
> documents (but not manually).  Cropping after pasting would be an option,
> but I haven't (yet) played around with COM enough to know if this is
easily
> done.  Cheers.
>
> Duncan
>
>




From rajarshi at presidency.com  Sat Mar  6 12:47:06 2004
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:47:06 -0500
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>

Hi, 
 I've written some code that takes a N lists of numbers (corresponding to
axes) and generates a list of grid points (N dimensional grid) for the
supplied axes. So as an example say my two axes are defined as

v1 = [1,2,3]
v2 = [1,2,3]

My code will return to me a list of points: 

(1,1), (1,2), (1,3) ....(3,1), (3,2), (3,3)

and so on. For 3 axes, I would obtain 27 points and so on.
I've included the code below.

My questions:

Firstly,  the code runs in exponential time. Is there any way to
rewrite it to make it more efficient? It seems that this could be
formulated as a recursive problem but I can't seem to get at it.

Secondly, it seems that the repeated use of copy.deepcopy() is very
wasteful? Is there a way I can get around it?

Thanks,

###########################

import copy

def extendgp(g,v):
    newg = []
    if not g:
        for i in v:
            newg.append( [i,] )
        return  newg

    for i in g:
        for j in v:
            x = copy.deepcopy(i)
            x.append(j)
            newg.append(x)
    return newg

def gengrid(axislist):

    grid = []
    for axes in axislist:
        grid = extendgp( grid, axes )
    return grid

if __name__ == '__main__':

    v1 = [1,2,3]
    v2 = [1,2,3]
    v3 = [1,2,3]

    grid = gengrid( (v1,v2,v3) )
    print grid



From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 31 07:04:15 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 15:04:15 +0300
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <du7ptatgr40.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Didier" == Didier Morandi <no at spam.com> writes:

    Didier> I do not read answers to questions I did not post, so I don't care
    Didier> about "unlearn a lifetime of knowledge about narrative flow in
    Didier> content".

So essentially Usenet should be a free Q&A automaton, where people
post questions and Usenet fairies go around answering them? Everybody
takes, nobody gives? I believe such service should cost you money...

Note that many read the newsgroup w/o having any questions of their
own, perhaps wanting to learn from the questions of others or see if
there is some interesting discussion going on. Top posting kills all
that.

It surprises me how much flammage people need before correcting the
error of their ways these days. Top posting might be forgivable for a
newbie/grandmother who is just trying his hand w/ Usenet for the first
time, but repeat offenders should be reprimanded.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 13 19:54:18 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:54:18 -0600
Subject: Safety of pickle?
In-Reply-To: <yDM4c.210$pa6.162325@monger.newsread.com>
References: <yDM4c.210$pa6.162325@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <16467.44346.562417.937397@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Leif> Is it safe to unpickle data from an untrusted source? 

No.

    Leif> Is it safe to use the values returned without lots of annoying
    Leif> type checking?

Depends upon how much validation you did before unpickling.

Skip




From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Mar 11 18:19:53 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:19:53 GMT
Subject: psycopg problem
References: <40501FA1.6030801@geochemsource.com>
	<mailman.262.1078995468.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tu64c.391$DM3.158@news01.roc.ny>

> 1. psycopg:      when a command fails, it will terminate the trasaction 
> but it tells that it will ignore other commands until the end of the 
> transaction block
> 2. PyGreSQL:  when a command fails, it will terminate the trasaction but 
> it tells that it will ignore other commands until the end of the 
> transaction block
> 3. pyPgSQL:    when a command fails, it will terminate the trasaction 
> without furhter notice (!!!)
>
> I see big problems here. I tried these too: Oracle, FireBird, MS SQL, 
> SAP DB. I was able to run an erroneous SQL and then continue my transaction
> (e.g. execute other commands in the same transaction). In my situation, 
> I just can't tell if a command will fail or not. If would be too hard 
> and too slow
> to determine if a command will fail or not. Hey, this is why exceptions 
> was born! From the other side, I must be able to commit or rollback all 
> my changes
> at the end of the block, depending on several things. Can anybody help 
> me please?
>
>


You may want to ask this question on a postgres list.

My understanding is that this is just the way it works in
postgres. Once there is an error condition in the transaction
you cannot continue on and commit. You have to rollback.



From benoit.merouze at epita.fr  Mon Mar 15 16:40:43 2004
From: benoit.merouze at epita.fr (ben-)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:40:43 +0000
Subject: Python and Microsoft Excel files
Message-ID: <20040315214043.2814f549.benoit.merouze@epita.fr>

I want to import and export Microsoft Excel files.
Are there libraries for this ?

If someone have advices to give, I'm interested !

-- 
M?rouze Beno?t
EPITA SIGL Promotion 2005
benoit.merouze at epita.fr
benoit.merouze at gouarec.com


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Mar 17 05:34:14 2004
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:34:14 +0100
Subject: Handling geoTIFF files
References: <23ae7099.0403170210.540888cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s9zvfl3oj89.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk (alastair) writes:

> I've read about the Python Imaging Library (PIL) which seems to do
> what I need with TIFF files. I was wondering if anyone knows if this
> library will work with geoTIFF files or if there are any other methods
> of doing what I need.

You might want to have a look at GDAL, a library for handling geographic
raster data which comes with Python bindings: http://gdal.maptools.org/

  Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Sun Mar  7 02:09:09 2004
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:09:09 GMT
Subject: Incompatibility between psyco 1.2 and pythonwin?
In-Reply-To: <fmy2c.51240$6c5.22645@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <fmy2c.51240$6c5.22645@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <pUz2c.29239$rW6.11306@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

David Lees wrote:
> I just downloaded psyco 1.2 and it seems to work fine with IDLE.  But it 
> crashes out of Pythonwin with a message: 'pythonwin.exe has generated 
> errors and will be closed by windows'.  It crashes after I type the line
>  'psyco.full()' and hit return.
> 
> I am running PythonWin 2.3.3 on a Windows 2000 PC.
> 
> david lees
> 
Question - Is there a known incompatability between psyco release 1.2 
and pythonwin?




From curzio.basso at unibas.ch  Fri Mar 19 07:15:34 2004
From: curzio.basso at unibas.ch (Curzio Basso)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:15:34 +0100
Subject: Basic Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
References: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
Message-ID: <405ae467@maser.urz.unibas.ch>

Matthew Bell wrote:

> Essentially, then, if I've inherited another class, how 
> do I create an instance of the class I've inherited such 
> that methods I haven't overrriden will still work, and 
> how can I then refer to that instance from my subclass?  
> I can guess it's something to do with "self" but exactly 
> what, I'm really at a loss.

If I got it right, you should have:

class A:
   def __init__(self):
     self.data=[]

class B(A):
   def __init__(self):
     A.__init__(self)
     self.data=[1,2,3]

cheers


From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Tue Mar 16 17:07:33 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 22:07:33 GMT
Subject: Is Python type safe?
References: <221d8dbe.0403161043.52406195@posting.google.com>
	<roy-BF7E5E.14183916032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<QuJ5c.3008$G3.27398@localhost>
	<roy-D263BB.16325416032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c37tr5$1fu$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> In article <QuJ5c.3008$G3.27398 at localhost>,
>  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> > Roy Smith wrote:
> > 
> > > Neither C++ nor Python will let you add the integer 3 to the string 
> > > "four", but use different mechanisms to prevent it.  Oddly enough, Java 
> > > (in a perl-like, but admittedly convenient, stab at automagic 
> > > polymorphism) will let you add them.  No clue what C# does.
> > 
> > It's been a while since I Java-ed, but doesn't it "append" them, as in 
> > convert the integer to a string and then join the two strings, rather 
> > than "add" them (which I take to mean "calculate the sum of")?
> > 
> > (That's probably what you meant, but I'm just checking.  I'd be 
> > surprised to find that Java actually performed the string-to-value 
> > conversion implicitly.)
> > 
> > -Peter
> 
> Yes, "four" + 3 ==> "four3"
> 
> I could imagine a language where "4" + 3 ==> 7 (actually, I don't have 
> to imagine it, all I need do is look at perl).  But, a language where 
> "four" + 3 ==> 7 would be pretty bizarre :-)

And would the result of "quatre" + 7, say, depend on the locale setting?

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
    The supreme misfortune is when theory outstrips performance.
				- Leonardo da Vinci




From eric at zomething.com  Sat Mar  6 17:52:22 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:52:22 -0800
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
Message-ID: <20040306145222.1240993028.eric@zomething.com>

Oren quoted and commented:


> """...Python is talked about as the 100-year language. Why? Because they say it
> will be the only programming language in use a 100 years from now... 
> """
> 
> I think I am as enthusiastic about Python as anyone else on this newsgroup
> but this gushing praise of Python in the preface makes me a bit uneasy. If 
> I were new to Python it would be a complete turnoff for me "...oh no, yet
> another religious fanatic..."
> 
> I think it may be better to tone it down a little to avoid alienating 
> potential new converts to our secret cult planning world domination ;-)


Re:  World domination and secret cults

[note there is nothing sexual in my use of these words though if I wanted this post to show up in Google, I might use the word sex several times, and show kinky programming methods which dominate more submissive languages]

In terms of achieving world domination it is more effective to announce that you are dominating the world than to announce that you will dominate the world.

for example:
99.99% of all PCs run Microsoft Windows
MySQL is the most widely used database for internet sites
The world's leading search engine was built with Python
Girls, girls, girls
Python is the most powerful programming language with modern object orientation and a tie-in to British Humor
Playboy Playmates surveyed who use objects preferred Python programmers two-to-one over all other programmers, to the best knowledge of the staff of http://www.WorldDomPy.localhost.com

I think programming languages, like other things, will diverge further.  What programming language will be used to program each spec of a dust cloud of mesh-networking sensors?  Probably not an interpreted language.  On the other hand, for platforms that interface to humans, relying on a language like Python seems to make more sense with each passing month.

"Python is the dominant language for programming productivity."


EP
Appreciative of all decent Python docs, thanks for the effort Swaroop!

A little non-linearity in thought can be good, right?  Though it is likely to raise some exceptions...



From python-url at phaseit.net  Sun Mar 28 22:07:18 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:07:18 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 28)
Message-ID: <106f4n6ahljus48@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "I think the best way of lobbying for Python adoption is to write
good software with Python." -- Jarek Zgoda

"The biggest problem I have now is convincing people that just because
something's not already in the standard library doesn't mean it belongs
there." -- Guido van Rossum, paraphrased by John Belmonte


    So far, over 320 have appeared for PyCon, currently in progress.
	http://www.sauria.com/~twl/conferences/pycon2004/
	http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/schedule.html

    Prothon justly dominated the week's discussion.  It's hard to
    summarize all the valuable insights illuminated
	http://groups.google.com/groups?q=prothon+group:comp.lang.python*
    Note the recurring attention to whether metaclasses are a symptom
    of health, and the path from there back to
	http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pymeta2/
    as well as Michele Simoniato's new real-life example
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ab312bd057b6e9c

    BitTorrent's probably the most widely-used Python program
	http://altis.pycs.net/2004/03/24.html#a105

    How does one scale?  Hung Jung Lu presents a tour de force based
    on a novel axiomatization of "all human intellectual
    activities", and proceeds through a remarkable density of apt
    apothegms ("focus ... on how to make your system maintainable")
    to the conclusion that Python's purity and metaprogrammability
    make it "good but still not good enough"
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=abdc11f026b3e9bd
    Other highlights of the same attention to programming in the
    large include Bill Rubinstein's testimony on deep practical
    testing, and Stefan Axelsson's that there's a lot more to
    typing systems than C++ (for example) offers.  Phil Pfeiffer
    presents important evidence on how far from "good enough" Python
    is
	http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/8/Twelve%20Thousand%20Test%20Cases%20and%20Counting.htm
    One way to enhance Pythonian engineering is with advanced tools
    such as PyNSource, a "UML reverse engineering and modelling"
    application
	http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pynsource.htm
    PyNSource has much of the "industrial strength" PyReverse, Boa,
    and PyUt lack.  Yet another breakthrough in scalability is 
    doctest, most recently explained by Tim Peters and Jim Fulton
    in their PyCon presentation
	http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/4/PyCon2004DocTestUnit/

    Christian von Essen breaks down the "how do I #include?"
    question into recipes which threaten newcomers minimally
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=5fd9f24976eb836f
    One step farther, and they've arrived at
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=5ac63bb4fb20cb3c

    ZODB for complete beginners
	http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=23413

    We deal with texts, so it's always timely to learn from George
    A. Miller and colleagues
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=fc91898a.0403250748.5ceb5a41%40posting.google.com

    What do Python and AppleScript have to do with each other?
    Mathieu Fenniak, Hamish Sanderson, and others know
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=52107f826d13ccad


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Wed Mar 10 23:25:03 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 20:25:03 -0800
Subject: python interface for indian language ....
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0403102025.2ab9f31d@posting.google.com>

hello friends,
i went thru the webpages of chinesepython,
was unable to understand data on that but gr8-ly inspired by that
efforts put to make python program in local language.

Now i wanna develope such type of interface/small library by which i
can write py programs in my language..

should anyone guide me how it should be ..?
i dont want to change the core python ...just wanna upper layer in
gtk/wxpython ...


plz ,
thanX in +vance !


From http  Tue Mar 23 18:15:33 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 15:15:33 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mvgt50tj2nvnqp07rp65scmh771vch8dho@4ax.com>
	<7iptb4ckea.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.283.1080055458.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xn067cfze.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> You'll be free to write your generator functions like so:
> 
>     def generator(f):
>         return f
> 
>     def silly_counter(n) [generator]:
>         for i in range(10):
>             yield n+i
> 
> It will just be a convention you adopt though, not a language rule.

It's a start.  Next would be to add something like perl's -w flag,
which checks that the conventions are followed.  Finally there can be
a compiler option that tells the optimizer to assume without checking
that the conventions are followed (i.e. if you say that some arg is an
int, then it's really an int).  That should allow generating much
better code which has the possibly of crashing if the convention is broken.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Mar 24 09:45:54 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:45:54 -0300
Subject: FAQs in spanish
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033837AB@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#-     Steve> I just wondered: what *is* the Spanish for 
#- "www.python.org"?
#- 
#- The domain name serpiente.org is available... ;-)

Ugly!

:)

.	Facundo



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Tue Mar 16 07:54:46 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:54:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4056c64d$0$3473$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040316125446.91356.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
Premshree Pillai wrote:
> >  --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
> > Premshree Pillai wrote:
> >>>Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> >>>strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily
> >>
> >>bound
> >>
> >>>to a particular type.
> 
> [deletia]
> 
> > The above returns a TypeError in Python, but not
> in
> > PHP, which is weakly typed.
> > 
> > Get it?
> 
> The only two (or perhaps one and a half) languages
> you used as reference 
> were C and C++. Which you said 'Like in C, C++, etc,
> Python too is 
> strongly typed'. What has PHP got to do with it? How
> does PHP's typing 
> have anything to do with Python's?
> 
> Typing in C and C++ is different to Python.
> 
> int c = 0;
> c = "fred";
> 
> No can do in C and C++.
> 
> c = 0
> c = "fred"
> 
> No problem in Python.
> 
> So just how is Python strongly typed 'like in C,
> C++, etc'?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

I said it in an earlier post, and I'll say again: I
never said strong typing is about being able to change
the type of a variable; I said that strong typing
means that a variable is necessarily bound to a
specific type; this is true for C and C++ too (both
are strongly typed). PHP is weakly typed; variables
are not bound to a specific data type. For e.g., I can
do the following in PHP:

// PHP snippet
str = "xyz";
t = str + 0 // this is not an error in PHP

On the other hand, Python will return an error when
you try to add a string to an integer; PHP won't.

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 20:07:38 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:07:38 -0800
Subject: how to do non-blocking I/O
References: <mailman.105.1079557901.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-6CA1D3.17073817032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.105.1079557901.742.python-list at python.org>,
 "J. Xu" <xu at reflexsecurity.com> wrote:

> I am a newbie to python. I am writing a client application, I need to 
> read query results from the server. Mostly I'll have a file object for 
> the connection to the server. So I use read() or readline() to get the 
> response. But since these are blocking calls, I have to use a seperate 
> thread for the input reading. But then I have another problem, my input 
> thread running in the following loop
> 
> while not quit:
>     str = ins.readline()
>     .... process the response
> 
> so I can't terminate the thread when it's blocking in the readline() 
> until the connection is closed. So looks like I need to use non-blocking 
> IO such as select() or poll(). But since I need this application to be 
> cross-platform, and these are not well supported on Windows, I don't 
> know what to do.

Far as I know, what you want to do may not be possible with
portable functions, so you may have to just implement separately
for each platform.

If you decide to use select or poll, note that they do not
account for data buffered in a file object.  This loses data,
in effect, because even though it's in your process buffer,
you won't read it if select says there's no new data.  You
can turn buffering off, but that forces readline() to read
1 byte at a time at an unreasonable cost in system calls.
In my opinion it makes much more sense to use recv on the
socket, and not use a file object here.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From project5 at redrival.net  Fri Mar 12 13:47:11 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:47:11 +0100
Subject: strings question
References: <slrnc53uq9.2lu.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <efgsow9i2gwe$.18fnldqakoeod.dlg@40tude.net>

Faheem Mitha wrote on Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:03:05 GMT:

> If I am given two strings, named foo and bar, what is the most elegant
> way to create a string object whose name is the value of foo and whose
> value is the value of bar? I have done some searching + looking in my
> introductory textbook "Learning Python" but have not come up with an
> answer yet.

You could use exec (potentially dangerous if not all code being exec-ed is
under your control):

>>> f = 'foo'
>>> b = 'bar'
>>> exec '%s = b' % f
>>> foo
'bar'

You could also manipulate the globals or locals dictionary:

>>> globals()[f] = b*2
>>> foo
'barbar'
>>> locals()[f] = b*3
>>> foo
'barbarbar'

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From user_77 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 17 22:44:09 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:44:09 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<9k4i50dnfsi42gdr5rue1vnpq7gfqkanb6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dW86c.276999$jH.3590037@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

How 'bout this:

import string

f=open ('Bob.txt','r')

counter = 0

for line in f.readlines():

   word = string.split(line)

   for x in word:

      if x == 'customer':

        counter = counter + 1

print 'Found it ' + str(counter)





"droog" <droog at orange.gov> wrote in message
news:9k4i50dnfsi42gdr5rue1vnpq7gfqkanb6 at 4ax.com...
> Thanks for helping, and no this is not a homework assignment
> I just like python and wanted to learn it on my own.
> droog
>
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:07:05 GMT, droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:
>
> >I was looking for the simpliest way of doing it. This is what I tried
> >to do.
> >
> >f = open('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt', 'r')
> >counter = 0
> >while True:
> > line = f.readline()
> > if len(line) == 0:
> > break
> > if line.find('customer'):
> > counter = counter + 1
> > print 'Found it ' + str(counter)
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:53:48 GMT, droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Hello!
> >>
> >>I have just started learning python and encountered a problem.
> >>All I wanted to do, was to open a text file search and count the
> >>number of occurances of a single word and print that count.
> >>Thanks for help.
>
>




From nospam-deets at web.de  Tue Mar  2 08:25:07 2004
From: nospam-deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:25:07 +0100
Subject: read(): 1st argument can't be coerced to byte[]
References: <mailman.23.1078232158.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2229g$1na362$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> 1 response = request.POST() # posts SOAP to the web service  and waits for
> 2                           # response
> 3 instr = response.getInputStream()
> 4 reader = Sax2.Reader()
> 5 doc = reader.fromStream(instr)
> (...)
> 
> Well, at line 5, I get the error:
> 
> read(): 1st argument can't be coerced to byte[]

What is that Sax2 thingy? It looks to me that the fromStream-method passes
the instr to something that expects a byte-array - so you could try to read
all the stuff from instr into an array and pass that.

> Does not seem to be a DOM parsing problem.

how could it, its SAX.....

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 11 12:16:54 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:16:54 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <EO%3c.2675$G3.20988@localhost>
Message-ID: <10517r5523m4743@news.supernews.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:EO%3c.2675$G3.20988 at localhost...
> Josef Meile wrote:
> >>>>>> a='test'
> >>>>>> if a.find('foo'):
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ...    print "foo was found"
> >>> ...
> >>> foo was found
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> a.find does not return a boolean, so that particular style guideline
> >> does not apply.
> >
> > I know, but I found this on the Zope source, which
> > means that there is people thinking that the False
> > on python includes negative values.
>
> I believe it's more likely they just forgot what find() did return, as
> they were writing the code.  I've done the same, thinking it was a
> boolean, not thinking that it returned a negative but that negatives
> were considered false.

I suspect that's a rather common error. I'd much prefer
that both find and index return an object that acted like
a number but returned the logically correct response when
queried as a boolean: true for zero and false for -1. Also,
the "not found" object should throw an exception if it's
used as an index or slice.

John Roth
>
> -Peter




From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Mar 10 05:00:08 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 05:00:08 EST
Subject: Any Python Hackers Wanna Beta Test????
In-Reply-To: <404ED30C.6050808@zoran.com>
References: <404E60A5.9010605@tundraware.com>
	<mailman.196.1078884831.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<3af2i1-c1i1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
	<404EB8DC.2010002@zoran.com>
	<7eu2i1-g3m1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
	<404ED30C.6050808@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <4353i1-oao1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Miki Tebeka wrote:

> Hello Tim,
> 
>> I considred something like this, but I don't actually want a full blown
>> language available to the end-user.  Too easy for them to blow things
>> up.  
> 
> Yes. OTOH they'll want more and more power and more and more features. 
> Just hand them Python and warn them.
>

Well, unlike utilities or systems tools, I am disposed
to _limit_ what users can do with applications.  Microsoft
(and KDE and GNOME and ...) got themselves into trouble giving
users _too much_ flexibility, IMHO.  This creates a nightmare
for support personnel who cannot reasonably count on a standardized
applications environment..

>> I am working on something that is essentially almost entirely
>> a lexical substitution (aka macro) engine.  The only "logic" will be
>> conditional inclusion of selected statments and simple string
>> substitution.  I may also add lexical namespaces since this is easy to
>> do.
> 
> Have you considerd using either the C pre processor or M4 macro language?

Well, I tend to write most stuff to be cross-platform and you cannot
count on these being present on non-Unix platforms.

> One more option is to link to a small language that you can modify, have
> a look at tiny scheme (http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/). It's one C 
> file implementation and you have a full language to give to your users.

This leads to the same objection I have to using Python itself as a
scripting language: A full featured language hands users lit dynamite...

> 
>> I used a similar idea when I wrote 'twander' and now I want a more
>> generic version of it:
>>
>> http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander/
> 
> Very cool. I like it.


ty :)

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From http  Tue Mar  2 01:17:19 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 22:17:19 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<Xns949FF2BD1BE73rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c21871$hlc$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7x1xob6ads.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> > If a '+' is problematic, it could be some other character. If I use
> > a print statement in a Python program, from my viewpoint, a trailing
> > comma signals suppression of newline and adding a space. In this
> > scenario, a trailing <insert acceptable character here> would
> > suppress the newline but not add a space. There's not much
> > difference there.
> 
> The problem is that checking my keyboard, there exists exactly three
> characters without syntactical meanings in Python 2.3; @, $, ?.  None
> of them make /any/ sort of syntactical sense to me in this context. I
> hope that Guido feels the same way.

How about two trailing commas: 

   print foo

now prints foo with a trailing newline.

   print foo,

suppresses the trailing newline but adds a trailing space.

   print foo,,

can suppress the trailing space as well.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar 16 14:22:44 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:22:44 -0600
Subject: TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
In-Reply-To: <20040316175242.7263.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040316175242.7263.qmail@web40020.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040316192243.GG2446@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 09:52:42AM -0800, Atul Kshirsagar wrote:
> Adding extra information,
> This was working fine with Python 2.2.2.
> 
> Now desperate :) to get some help !
> Atul

Nope, None is not callable in 2.2.2 either:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) 
>>> None()
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

What in the world do you think None should do when called?

Jeff



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 22 17:49:10 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:49:10 -0600
Subject: static information...
References: <mailman.253.1079991337.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QI6dnQG58u3-8MLdRVn-tw@comcast.com>

Try A.static.extend([1,2,3]) and see what that
give you.

Larry Bates

<niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu> wrote in message
news:mailman.253.1079991337.742.python-list at python.org...
> I've been looking for a way of have static variables in a python class and
all I
> have found is this:
>
>  class A:
>             static =[]
>
>             def f(self):
>                         A.static = [1,2,3]
>
>
> That seems to be pretty static since that variable can be used either on
the
> class (such as A.static) or on an instance (such as A().static).
> Now my problem is that every time some create a new instance of this class
the
> variable static is reset to its original value [] and the real value that
it
> took is lost. What I want is someplace to store class's information and
not
> instance's information.
> Any idea?
>
>




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Mar 22 10:23:47 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:23:47 -0500
Subject: values within quotes
References: <405ebd60$0$268$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <DUwXAls/KH2Q089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <405ebd60$0$268$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>,
"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote:
>I give my program commands like this: GET MODLIST
>
>This is very easy to parse, I can just use .split() to because it has only
>spaces to seperate the different parts of the command. Now I want, for
>example, the following command: GET FILE C:\my docs\my file.txt. Obviously I
>cannot use .split() for this one, because it uses spaces in the filename.
>Common pc knowledge tells me that I should put the 'space-value' witin
>quotes like: GET FILE "C:\my docs\my file.txt".
>
>So the big question is: What is the best way to parse such a string?

Best has probably been posted, but for the record another way is

>>> command = r"GET FILE C:\my docs\my file.txt"  # simulate a read from the world outside
>>> command.split (None, 2)
['GET', 'FILE', 'C:\\my docs\\my file.txt']


        Regards.        Mel.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Mar 13 12:57:20 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:57:20 GMT
Subject: Performance penalty for using properties?
References: <slrnc55f2n.1qp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
	<mailman.350.1079165978.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc56h7n.1vj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.350.1079165978.19534.python-list at python.org>, Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
> Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> ...
> 
>>Can anyone comment on the performance
>>costs associated with properties vs. simple attribute lookup?
>>  
>>
> They can become a significant fraction of total run-time, and often wind 
> up showing as the heaviest methods in an entire application if they are 
> used pervasively (i.e. every attribute of every object is a property).  
> Even short runs of small systems so designed can give you 100s of 1000s 
> of calls to an individual method.  OpenGLContext gets around this by 
> defining an accelerator for the __get__ method of the field properties.  

What does "accelerator" mean in this context?  Obviously, it's something
that speeds up __get__ calls, but ihow is that accomplished?

If it's a simple wrapper, that means you can blissfully ignore property
costs until profiling shows it's a problem, which is a big win.

Joe


From bogus at bogus.net  Wed Mar 17 11:33:41 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:33:41 GMT
Subject: Compare recursively objects
References: <LcZ5c.6697$kc2.157952@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<na_5c.5$1r6.1@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<gF_5c.6730$kc2.158843@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <F5%5c.10$1r6.5@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Nicolas Fleury" <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in message
news:gF_5c.6730$kc2.158843 at nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Do you know if the use of pickle would work?  If I dump two objects and
> compare the files, do I have the assurance that the files are the same
> if the recursive members are the same?
>
> Regards,
> Nicolas

I am not very familiar with pickle, other than its purpose for persisting
object representations for later reconstitution.  Given that, I suspect your
pickle-to-file-and-compare-the-files scheme would work.

However, I would be wary of a scheme that routinely used files for
temporary/scratch storage in this manner.  There are just too many ordinary
ways for this to go wrong:
- disk has insufficient room to create files
- insufficient user privs to create files
- trying to create files in non-existent or protected directory
- program exits before scratch files get cleaned up, leaving behind growing
debris
- concurrent users end up using each others' files by mistake; accidentally
creating duplicate scratch file names
Plus, file i/o is just plain agonizingly slow.

In sum, I suspect you will get diverted to dealing with a whole bunch of
issues that are artifacts of using files, when what you really wanted to do
is compare some objects.  Perhaps you could pickle to a string and compare
the strings?  At least this avoids most of the file system complications.

-- Paul




From ekoome at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 09:37:19 2004
From: ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 06:37:19 -0800
Subject: wxDirDialog
Message-ID: <b0457a31.0403150637.6dc3ed07@posting.google.com>

How does one use wxDirDialog to select and get a computer name from the network?

Or which widget should i use to accomplish this?

Eric


From inigoserna at terra.es  Sat Mar  6 07:28:27 2004
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:28:27 +0100
Subject: How to find size of file?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94A39ADB3A783GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
References: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
	<c2ai0g$1t4u$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<Xns94A39ADB3A783GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
Message-ID: <1078576106.27458.5.camel@inigo.katxi.org>

Hi,

Other ways:

>> import os, stat 
>> os.stat(filename)[stat.ST_SIZE]

Or better:

>> import os.path
>> os-path.getsize(filename)

Best regards,
I?igo Serna

El vie, 05-03-2004 a las 22:13, Walter Huf escribi?:
> Yermat <loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net> wrote in
> news:c2ai0g$1t4u$1 at biggoron.nerim.net: 
> 
> > Walter Huf a ?crit :
> 
> > def sizeOf(f):
> >      f.seek(0,2)
> >      return f.tell()
> > 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

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From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Wed Mar 31 14:45:43 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:45:43 +0200
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB64_1080762339_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124CEF@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca>

Sent:
-1092744704,29628248

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

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From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 18:37:05 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 15:37:05 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<GdO5c.23758$Pa7.602605@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<40200384.0403170530.57b6bba4@posting.google.com>
	<38ec68a6.0403171750.7a300cb2@posting.google.com>
	<40200384.0403180514.341fe3b0@posting.google.com>
	<1079629638.19728.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403181537.145d1972@posting.google.com>

"DomF" <fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1079629638.19728.0 at lotis.uk.clara.net>...
> > Indeed I have not. Probably because basic built-in strings form a type
> > that's not a class and you can't inherit from it.
> >
> Mostly because I am interested in the counter argument:
> 
> class mynewstr(str):
> ...     pass
> ...
> >>> s = mynewstr()
> >>> dir(s)
> <<list of str stuff>>

I stand corrected, I don't think there is a counter argument. So then
the objection of Asun Friere remains: could a redefinition of "is" for
strings affect the behavior of classes derived from str? I don't know.

Axel


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Mar 23 09:47:35 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:47:35 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <c3p277$vji$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <c3p277$vji$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040323144735.GA20351@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Ed Cogburn]

> By compile-to-binary, I meant create a binary executable in native
> machine code that does not involve an interpreter process (source or
> byte-code), and any substantial run-time overhead.  In other words my
> concern, is as always, about speed.

Clear enough! :-)

> Lisp has good performance, and is a compilable language, I'm aware
> of that, but I just can't handle all the parentheses [...] without
> getting a headache. :) To each their own, I need something else.

While I quite understand what you mean (my initial LISP experiences
were on punched cards, so human balancing of parentheses at the time
ought to be an clever efficient art), Lisp (the capitalisation changed
since then!) became much more manageable.  With intelligent editors,
able to automatically re-indent on the fly (on Unix, Emacs is the only
one I used, but there might be others able to do so), you merely look
at the indentation.  And for the remaining few times you still need to
look at parentheses, within a single line usually, the corresponding
parentheses blink while you move the cursor.  All in all, in real
day-to-day practice, parentheses are not an impediment anymore.  Given
you use a proper editor, Lisp might be even easier overall than many
other languages.  You should not fear it.

> Pyrex is very interesting, I've looked at Pyrex code.  The purpose
> of Pyrex however isn't to replace Python or the interpreter process,
> merely to optimize some parts of a Python program.  Even with heavy
> use of Pyrex, you still can't get away from the interpreter process,
> ie., Python will always have to be there, right?

I'm not sure.  In one of my projects, I want to explore how fully one
could get rid of the Python interpreter while using Pyrex, maybe through
a set of added stub routines, but this project is low priority and I'm
not getting there yet.  One of these days hopefully.  The nice thing
with Pyrex is that you can use the Python interpreter, or not use it,
more or less depending on your way to declare things and your way to
code.  So, in a way, you have full control over the compromise between
speed and facility.  The temptation is always strong to use Python
facilities, but I guess that with enough discipline, you can displace
and put the equilibrium wherever you want.

If you tolerate having the Python interpreter around, I presume that you
can take good advantage and be happy of its presence for the many parts
of your programs where speed is not that critical.  If you do not want
the Python interpreter around in the long run, and if this is possible
to fully get rid of it (I do not know yet), then there is no doubt to me
that one needs a fairly strict discipline while using Pyrex.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From fxj at mpe.mpg.de  Tue Mar  2 16:26:17 2004
From: fxj at mpe.mpg.de (F Jamitzky)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:26:17 -0800
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
Message-ID: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>

It is rather easy to define functions in python that mimic the special
ruby syntactic sugar like:

5.times { print "Hello World!" }

or

[toast, cheese, wine].each { |food| eat food }

In python these fragments can be written as:

5 *times(lambda: printf("Hello World!") )

or

[toast, cheese, wine] *each (lambda food: eat(food) )

by defining a Times class like that:

class Times:
    def __rmul__(self,n):
        for i in range(n):
            self.func()
    def __call__(self,func):
        self.func=func
        return self
times=Times()

Was this intended as a language feature or is this style an
"unpythonic"
missuse of the syntax ? I like the way of writing loops and list
comprehensions that way, but I think there will be an outcry of some
people. What do you guys think about extensions like that ?

cheers
Ferdinand


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 18:38:53 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:38:53 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> I couldn't find that algorithm in the language reference, only in 5.9:
> "Tuples and lists are compared lexicographically using comparison of
> corresponding elements. This means that to compare equal, each element
> must compare equal and the two sequences must be of the same type and
> have the same length."
> 
> That definition doesn't seem to fully specify equality of list values:
> ...

Sure it does; the rule can be used recursively.  As I indicated,
according to its definition, your s and w are clearly equal despite
being infinite and having different internal representations.  == has to
do with value, not identity.

> I hope that the
> actual result received, i.e. s==w, is not implementation dependent?

They're also equal in Jython.  It wouldn't surprise me if you could find
an implementation where they might not compare equal, because this is
such a pathological case.  As I indicated before, I've never seen anyone
use a self-referencing list in any real-world code, ever.

> It now appears to me that there are four levels of equality in Python:
> 
> a is b => pickle.dumps(a)==pickle.dumps(b) => repr(a)==repr(b) => a==b
> 
> and none of the arrows can be reversed in general. I suppose I had
> naively assumed the last three to be equivalent.

__eq__ and __repr__ can be overridden to do whatever the programmer
wants, so why would you think the last three would be equivalent?

repr(a) == repr(b) is certainly not equivalent to a == b.  Consider the
default repr of an arbitrary class, which will only be equal to another
object if a is b -- that is, if they represent the same object.  Beyond
that, it's up to the programmer to make custom types behave how he or
she would like with respect to equality and repr.

> Is there a string
> function analogous to pickle.dumps or repr which only takes values
> into account, not internal structure?

How can you define the value of an arbitrary object without reference to
its internal structure?

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Liberty is the right to do whatever the law permits.
    -- Charles Louis Montesquieu


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Wed Mar 10 10:11:35 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:11:35 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LhG3c.25864$hG.291198@news20.bellglobal.com>

If people do not care for

import -2.MODULE
from -1.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME

Would it be possible and/or preferrable to have something like this work:

import relative(2).MODULE
from relative(1).MODULE import NAMES as RENAME

?





From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Mar 10 14:48:22 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:48:22 -0500
Subject: NumPy (numarray) problem with C code
References: <c2mp5q$2sja$1@news.riken.go.jp>
Message-ID: <qnkznaoscu1.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Marc Schellens <m_schellens at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Following the NumPy documentation, I took over some C code,
> but run into an error.
> Does anybody have a suggestion?
> Thanks,
> marc
>
>
> gdlpython.cpp:225: `PyArray_Type' undeclared (first use this function)
>
> #include <python2.3/Python.h>
> // python numarray is used
> #include <python2.3/numarray/arrayobject.h>

I don't know how you're compiling, but you're probably better off
using
#include "Python.h"
#include "numarray/arrayobject.h"

and specifying the proper include directory. This way you're not
hardcoded to the Python version. distutils automatically adds the
proper directory to the compile line, for instance.

You're using numarray, so you may want to use the numarray interface
instead of the Numeric compability interface. Include
"numarray/libnumarray.h" instead of "numarray/arrayobject.h"

> // ...
>
> BaseGDL* FromPython( PyObject* pyObj)
> {
>    PyObject *object;
>
> // following is line 225
>    if( !PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "O!", &PyArray_Type, &object))

There is no such thing as PyArray_Type in numarray, and actually,
there isn't one array type. I'd check for the specific
string/long/complex/double types first (your code below)..

>      {
>        // non-array - try other
>        PyErr_Clear();
>        // string
>        char* s;
>        if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "s", s))
> 	return new DStringGDL( string(s));
>        PyErr_Clear();
>        // integer
>        DLong l;
>        if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "l", &l))
> 	return new DLongGDL( l);
>        PyErr_Clear();
>        // complex
>        Py_complex c;
>        if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "D", &c))
> 	{
> 	  DComplexDbl cc( c.real, c.imag);
> 	  return new DComplexDblGDL( cc);
> 	}
>        PyErr_Clear();
>        // float
>        DDouble d;
>        if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "d", &d))
> 	return new DDoubleGDL( d);
>
>        throw GDLException( "FromPython: Cannot convert python object.") ;
>      }

and use NA_InputArray() to get the array. This returns NULL if it
can't make the argument an array. You're using the Numeric
compatibility functions below; you might as well use the numarray
equivalents instead.

>    // array type
>    PyArrayObject* array = (PyArrayObject*) object;
>
>    int nDim = array->nd;
>    int item_type = array->descr->type_num;
>
>    // make array contiguous
> //   array = static_cast< PyArrayObject*>
> //     (PyArray_ContiguousFromObject( object,
> // 				   item_type,
> // 				   0,0));
>    array = (PyArrayObject*) PyArray_ContiguousFromObject( object,
> 							 item_type,
> 							 0,0);
>    if( array == NULL)
>      throw GDLException( "FromPython: Error making array contiguous.") ;

Note that array will be NULL also if it's not an array; this would be
a better way to use it.

Replace the above with something like

PyArrayObject* array = NA_InputArray(object, tAny, NUM_C_ARRAY);
if (array == NULLL) {
   throw GDLException( "FromPython: Error making array contiguous.") ;
}
int item_type = array->descr->type_num;

Double-check the numarray C API documentation as to whether you should use
NA_InputArray or NA_IoArray.

Haven't looked at the following carefully:
>    size_t dimArr[ MAXRANK];
>    if( nDim > MAXRANK)
>      {
>      Warning( "FromPython: Array has more than "+MAXRANK_STR+
> 	     " dimensions. Extending last one.");
>      size_t lastDim = array->dimensions[ MAXRANK-1];
>      for( size_t i=MAXRANK; i<nDim; ++i) lastDim *= array->dimensions[ i];
>      for( size_t i=0; i<MAXRANK-1; ++i)
>        dimArr[ i] = array->dimensions[ i];
>      dimArr[ MAXRANK-1] = lastDim;
>      nDim = MAXRANK;
>      }
>    else
>      {
>        for( size_t i=0; i<nDim; ++i)
> 	dimArr[ i] = array->dimensions[ i];
>      }
>
>    dimension dim( dimArr, nDim);


Use the numarray types instead: tUInt8, tInt8, tInt16, tFloat64, etc:

>    switch( item_type)
>      {
>        // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //UNDEF***
>      case PyArray_UBYTE:   //BYTE
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DByteGDL>( dim, array);
>      case PyArray_SHORT:   //INT
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DIntGDL>( dim, array);
>      case PyArray_INT:     //LONG	
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DLongGDL>( dim, array);
>      case PyArray_FLOAT:   //FLOAT	
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DFloatGDL>( dim, array);
>      case PyArray_DOUBLE:  //DOUBLE	
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DDoubleGDL>( dim, array);
>      case PyArray_CFLOAT:  //COMPLEX	
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DComplexGDL>( dim, array);
>        // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //STRING***	
>        // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //STRUCT***	
>      case PyArray_CDOUBLE: //COMPLEXDBL	
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DComplexDblGDL>( dim, array);
>        // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //PTR***		
>        // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //OBJECT***
>      case tUInt16:         //UINT*
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DUIntGDL>( dim, array);
>      case tUInt32:         //ULONG*
>        return NewFromPyArrayObject< DULongGDL>( dim, array);
>      default:
>        throw GDLException( "FromPython: Unknown array type.") ;
>      }
>
>    return NULL; // compiler shut-up
> }

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From nir1408 at ziaran.org  Tue Mar  2 16:25:13 2004
From: nir1408 at ziaran.org (ziaran)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:25:13 +0200
Subject: Jython Debugger?
In-Reply-To: <SG01c.2924$Wo2.2041@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<c21b0h$2re$1@newshispeed.ch> <4044435E.6090100@ziaran.org>
	<SG01c.2924$Wo2.2041@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4044FBB9.1090105@ziaran.org>

max khesin wrote:
> (forgive the simpleton)
> How do you envision this working in Jython environment?
> 
> thanks,
> max.
> 
> ziaran wrote:
> 
>> F. GEIGER wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking for such a thing too. All I've found so far is an 
>>> announcement
>>> of an Eclipse plugin.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Franz GEIGER
>>>
>>> "max khesin" <max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>> news:jkL0c.94$c73.143227 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I was takling to someone who has been using Jython for a while. Their
>>>> biggest complaint is the luck of a good debugger. I was really
>>>> surprised. Isn't there anything decent out there?
>>>> thanks,
>>>> max
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> try rpdb.py
>> you can get it at:
>> http://ziaran.org/rpdb.htm
>>

Max, I didn't hear about Jython until today, but if it runs Python code 
it should run the debugger, since it it written in Pythonish.



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar 19 00:38:12 2004
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:38:12 -0600
Subject: [snip too-long subject]
In-Reply-To: <c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <405A8744.9070107@newcenturycomputers.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> - all builtin functions that do not add value to the language as 
>> language should move into separate module (e.g. map, zip, sum etc... 
>> vs callable, isinstance, builtin type-constructors) and not be so 
>> over-emphasized.
>
> map, zip, sum, etc. are used in a large amount of production code. 
> Moving them somewhere else would break every piece of code that uses 
> them.  This is not going to happen soon, possibly ever.

I'm a bit confused, anyway.  When did functional programming become 
outdated?

map() is easily as important as iterators and generators.

-- Chris.





From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 12:36:58 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:36:58 +0100
Subject: exiting Python
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403040858.666153a1@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0403040858.666153a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c27pe8$97d$1@swifty.westend.com>

beliavsky at aol.com schrieb:
> I think exiting Python with 'Ctrl-Z plus Return' is awkward. Why not
> something simpler like ':q[uit]'. Since ':q' is currently invalid
> syntax, I don't think using it to quit Python would break anything.

class SimpleExit:
      def __repr__(self):
          print "Python: Sssssssee you!"
          import sys
          sys.exit(0)

q = SimpleExit()

Include this in your PYTHONSTARTUP and you're done. Just type

 >>> q

whenever you want to exit and avoid conflicting use of q in
interactive sessions. :-)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Thu Mar 18 15:29:57 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:29:57 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
References: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
	<c3cncg$gar$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<kum6c.29690$wg.18274@okepread01>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.18.20.29.54.837344@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:10:08 +0000, thehaas wrote:

> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> thehaas at binary.net wrote:
>> > Obviously, 'Gr??'!='Gr\xfc\xdf' .  
> 
>> It is not at all obvious that they are different. In fact, they
>> are the same, assuming the second string is encoding in Latin-1.
> 
>> > Any ideas on how I can get the correct value?
> 
>> Pray tell: what is the correct value?
> 
> The correct value is 'Gr??', or at least have it equal to that.
> 
> Maybe I should back up -- I'm interfacing into a Windows API.  In that API, I see 'Gr??' as:
>   >>> plist[-1].Reference
>   u'Gr\xfc\xdf'
> 
> My value in goodProcList is:
>   >>> goodProcRef[18]
>   'Gr\xfc\xdf'
> 
> (yeah, goodProcList isn't in Unicode -- that's probably the cause of all this)
> 
> When I test their equality:
> 
>>>> goodProcRef[18] == plist[-1].Reference
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 2: ordinal
> not in range(128)
> 
> If I try to manually encode goodProcRef[18], I get the same thing:
> 
>     >>> goodProcRef[18].encode('utf-8')
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>        File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 2: ordinal not in range(128)

by experience, you must first decode your string to encode it

so
>>> goodProcRef='Gr\xfc\xdf'.decode('latin-1')
>>> goodProcRef
u'Gr\xfc\xdf'

now you could compare goodProcRef and plist[-1].Reference and get "True"

When strings are unicode strings, then you can encode them easily

>>> goodProcRef.encode('UTF8')
'Gr\xc3\xbc\xc3\x9f'
>>> plist[-1].Reference.encode('UTF8')
'Gr\xc3\xbc\xc3\x9f'

Hope it can help,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 12 23:25:51 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 04:25:51 +0000
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668@pd7tw1no>
	<T4v4c.11264$H44.200022@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <1r2550l35kftiq1c4h7b1o1dquudin4upq@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:19:15 GMT, "elizabeth fletcher"
<fletcher at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Actually, I have the .pyd file (which I understand is basically a dll file)
>and placed it in the DLL directory in the PYTHON23 directory.  In the
>interactive window I type "import calldll" and I get an error (ImportError:
>DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found)    I shoudn't if
>the dll is installed correctly.....right?

The folder is called 'DLLs' rather than 'DLL', but I imagine that's
just finger-trouble in your post. The 'DLLs' folder is definitely the
right place.

There are some problems that are not specifically related to Python,
though. The most likely is a dependency on other DLLs. You should
check whether your extension needs any other additional DLLs (e.g. the
runtime libraries for a particular compiler version) and make sure you
have them installed, either somewhere on you OS path or in the DLLs
folder where you placed the .pyd file.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From marer at videotron.ca  Fri Mar  5 13:19:30 2004
From: marer at videotron.ca (Eric Martel)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:19:30 GMT
Subject: Help needed with gettext.install (solved)
In-Reply-To: <0L12c.109944$2g.52298@charlie.risq.qc.ca>
References: <0L12c.109944$2g.52298@charlie.risq.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <Sw32c.111300$2g.3865@charlie.risq.qc.ca>

Eric Martel wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using Mandrake Cooker and just upgraded Python to 2.3.3.
> 
> A Python-based program I use often is Pybliographer; since the Python 
> update, I get the following error when trying to start Pybliographer:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/bin/pybliographer", line 40, in ?
>     gettext.install (progname, localedir, unicode = True)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'install'
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but here is a Python session from the 
> shell (for which I was inspired by something I found on Google):
> 
> Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
> [GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import gettext
>  >>> gettext.__dict__['textdomain']
> <function textdomain at 0x403f7cdc>
>  >>> gettext.__dict__['install']
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> KeyError: 'install'
> 
> So it really looks like the 'install' method is not available for the 
> object 'gettext', while the method 'textdomain' is. I talked about it on 
> a Cooker list, but no one was aware of what could cause this problem 
> (and I was apparently the only one to experience it), so I'm asking to 
> you guys: do you know what could be missing/wrong on my system to cause 
> such an error?

I found out that the problem was with the new gettext.py file that was 
installed with the Cooker update I did: for a reason I don't know, the 
file was very different from the one found inside the official Python 
2.3.3 sources: I just copied the latter onto the bad one and everything 
was fine. I alerted the Cooker community.

-- 
Eric Martel
Sainte-Foy (Qu?bec)
Canada
Clef publique OpenPGP: ED3F191C (http://key.ericmartel.net/)

Copyleft 2004 Eric Martel
(http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/)
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From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 21:09:20 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:09:20 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>
	<mailman.26.1079372001.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<fc0c50htlip4mtpjjdhbuenn6m38o3mi9u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4.1079384865.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blnc50ptvuad5an57jr9lt7qc7gcl43fkk@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:50:47 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    Dave> We should at least update the description of the reload function
>    Dave> in the Python Library Reference.  See the thread "Reload
>    Dave> Confusion" for some suggested text.
>
>Please file a bug report on Sourceforge so your ideas don't get lost.  Feel
>free to assign it to me (sf id == "montanaro").

Will do.  I would like to get a few comments from folks following this
thread before submitting the proposed text to Sourceforge.  Here is
the summary:
"""
To summarize what happens with reload(M1):

The module M1 must have been already imported in the current
namespace.

The new M1 is executed, and new objects are created in memory.

The names in the M1 namespace are updated to point to the new objects.
No other references are changed.  References to objects removed from
the new module remain unchanged.

Previously created references from other modules to the old objects
remain unchanged and must be updated in each namespace where they
occur.

The old objects remain in memory until all references to them are
gone.
"""

To read this in context, with a nice example, background discussion,
etc. see http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm  I think
I've finally got it right, but I'm always prepared for another
surprise.

Once I'm confident that my understanding is correct, I'll see if I can
weave this into the existing text of the Library Reference.  I may try
also to put in some of the "motivation" for the way things are (from
the Background section of the above webpage.)

-- Dave



From noemail at noemail4u.com  Mon Mar 29 07:21:09 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:21:09 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc69peu.j80.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <bb9be8890d95086418755c1b4699e676@news.teranews.com>

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 02:24:29 GMT, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org>
wrote:

>On 2004-03-26, John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>> "D Martin" <dgmartin98.REMOVEME at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018 at edtnps84...
>
>>> 3 solutions:
>
>>> 1. Use spaces instead of tabs.  Hit the space bar yourself, or an editor
>>> that replaces tabs with spaces.
>>> 2. Include as a .py or text file instead of inline.
>>> 3. Get a different email program.
>
>> All of these fail for one simple reason. Let's hit
>> the chorus, guys:
>
>> "We're right, everybody else needs to change..."
>
>    Hey, that's the Chorus from the Microsoft song!  You're the one using
>Lookout!  You're the one complaining about the shortfalls in your tools
>because Microsoft sings that song.  *YOU* deal with it.
It's not a Microsoft problem.  I use a webmail interface (for
email, not newsgroups), and regardless of which browser I use, 
tabs are eliminated.  I'm not thinking it's a browser problem 
either.  My suspicion is that some part of the back-end is 
removing tabs because some other part of the back-end system 
uses tabs for delimiters.  I know it's a non-Microsoft
back-end (I think it's FreeBSD).  Who should *I* rant at?  ;-)

When sending snippets, making a separate attachment can be
counterproductive since 1) it breaks the flow of any explanation,
and 2) many people are (justifiably) afraid to open attachments.
So attaching a file is not reader-friendly, though it does
solve the problem for the writer.

    --dang


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:44:16 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:44:16 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ydS9c.58116$cx5.36263@fed1read04>

> Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)

It appears we will be bowing to pressure and switching to spaces.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78 at posting.google.com...
> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
> > What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
> > use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
> > some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
> > to be just templates to produce other objects.
>
> Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)
>
>    Michele Simionato




From paul at prescod.net  Mon Mar 29 01:06:00 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:06:00 -0800
Subject: Pyrex talks from Pycon
Message-ID: <4067BCC8.5010209@prescod.net>

PyCon 2004 Slides on "Extending Python with Pyrex"
  PDF: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/ExtendingPythonWithPyrex.pdf
  PPT: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/ExtendingPythonWithPyrex.ppt

Pycon 2004 Slides on "Optimizing Python code with Pyrex"
  PDF: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/OptimizingPythonWithPyrex.pdf
  PPT: http://www.prescod.net/pyrex/OptimizingPythonWithPyrex.ppt

I hope this helps me. Please report any mistakes.

  Paul Prescod





From qp at al.net  Wed Mar 31 21:30:02 2004
From: qp at al.net (Qp)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:30:02 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <L8Lac.6822$Hs1.3914@fe03.usenetserver.com>

I don't know if anyone else will think it's funny...

"Shane Hathaway" <shane at zope.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Here's a Python slogan suggestion by Ken Manheimer.
>
> One Nation Under Under Python
>
> I thought it was pretty funny.  I don't know if international folks will
> get it, though. :-)
>
> Shane
>





From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Fri Mar 26 23:33:55 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:33:55 -0500
Subject: PyProtocols question
In-Reply-To: <iiv860ptknuam21n50285chcuvr4i12182@4ax.com>
References: <iiv860ptknuam21n50285chcuvr4i12182@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40650433.5070400@zephyrfalcon.org>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm not sure if this is the best forum to place this question, but
> haven't found a better one, so here goes.
> 
> I have Python 2.3 in my machine (Windows 2000) and downloading
> PyProtocols 0.9.2 the installer complains that python 2.2 isn't found
> in the registry.
> 
> I've also tried to download the source and follow the instructions,
> but since there's no compiler the setup complains. Since I cannot find
> the latest 0.9.3 version I can't use the --without-speedups to bypass
> the compilation phase...
> 
> I also have cygwin and could try the rpm's, but I have (yet) very
> little experience on it, so I don't wanna go that route.
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions?

This worked for me:

Download the source (0.9.2) from http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/.  Edit 
setup.py, so that it says

   include_speedups = False

Then, do a setup.py install.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 20 18:47:31 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:47:31 -0800
Subject: Help getting the md5 module to work
References: <sKN6c.36935$Fh4.32153@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<m1O6c.25774$P45.20864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<JTS6c.15939$Bg.5379@fed1read03>
	<7x1xnodjx2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<405BFC92.E1C8C186@alcyone.com> <8z07c.21193$Bg.9311@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <405CD813.B483EA6B@alcyone.com>

Amy G wrote:

> I discovered this last night.
> 
> But what is the true MD5 hash for help?  With or without the newline?

It's completely up to you.  It's your hash, you decide what goes in it. 
All that's important is whoever's comparing hashes with yours (for
whatever reason) is doing it consistently.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ I'm spreading my wings and I fly / I'm still as the night
    -- Chante Moore


From mh at dreadnok.pixar.com  Wed Mar 17 20:01:38 2004
From: mh at dreadnok.pixar.com (Mark Harrison)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:01:38 GMT
Subject: how to "source" a file?
References: <4g56c.11369$MC6.9352@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Sx66c.11407$R27.11314@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Specifically, I'm confused why

def dfpostadd(name):
    """per-unit postprocessing step"""
    sys.path.append('/my/config/path')
    import dfacommon
    dfacommon.addm(name)

works, but this doesn't:

sys.path.append('/my/config/path')
import dfacommon
def dfpostadd(name):
    """per-unit postprocessing step"""
    dfacommon.addm(name)

which gives me:

msg=global name 'dfacommon' is not defined trace=['  File "<string>",
line 341, in doadd\n', '  File "/usr/anim/config/ndfd/mark.cfg",
line 55, in dfpostadd\n    dfacommon.addm(name)\n'] 


Many TIA,
Mark


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 20 16:14:08 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:14:08 -0500
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
References: <xK17c.26714$Eb6.852981@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <105pd227mcmp646@news.supernews.com>

"Pierre Rouleau" <prouleau at impathnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:xK17c.26714$Eb6.852981 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi all,
>
> In several occasions, I found myself looking for a function that would
> take a value and restrict is within a specified set of boundaries.   For
> a 1-dimension value, I could simply write
>
> min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
>
> to restrict value within the range made of theMin to theMax.
> It assumes that theMax >= theMin.
>
> I was looking for a single call to restrict a value within bounds that
> would do pretty much that, so i wrote this trivial one:
>
> def restrain(value, theMin, theMax) :
>      """Return a value that is in restricted to the [theMin, theMax]
range.
>
>      **Example**
>
>      >>> for val in xrange(-1,7,1):
>      ...   print "restrain(%d,1,5) = %d" % (val, restrain(val,1,5))
>      ...
>      restrain(-1,1,5) = 1
>      restrain(0,1,5) = 1
>      restrain(1,1,5) = 1
>      restrain(2,1,5) = 2
>      restrain(3,1,5) = 3
>      restrain(4,1,5) = 4
>      restrain(5,1,5) = 5
>      restrain(6,1,5) = 5
>      >>>
>      """
>
>      assert(theMax >= theMin)
>      return min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
>
>
> Without the assertion check, the restrain() named function runs
> expectedly slower than the explicit min(max()) calls:
>
> C:\Python23\Lib>timeit "min(max(5,1),0)"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.02 usec per loop
>
> C:\Python23\Lib>timeit -s"from ut import restrain" "restrain(5,1,6)"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.53 usec per loop
>
> Again, I found myself writing code that has to restrain the values to
> some range and prefer using the restrain() function instead of the
> min(max()) one.
>
> Therefore, I was wondering if it would it make sense to add a function
> like restrain() to the list of Python built-ins.  Or is there something
> like that already in the Python library?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Pierre

I know I've wanted that on (infrequent) occasion. I think
"minmax" makes a better name, though, and I suspect it
would have to be implemented in C to make any sense,
performancewise.

John Roth
>
>
>
>
>




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 19:42:46 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:42:46 -0800
Subject: attributes of Python classes
References: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4058F086.490C215B@alcyone.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

> I have started using classes with Python and have a question
> about their use.
> 
> In Python, 'attributes are all "public" and "virtual" in C++
> terms; they're all accessible everywhere and all looked up
> dynamically at runtime' (Quoting "Learning Python", 2nd. ed.,
> p367). It seems to me that two good conventions are to
> 
> (1) initialize all attributes in the __init__ function
> (2) avoid creating new attributes elsewhere that are not initialized
> in
>     __init__
> 
> I have not followed these conventions so far, and sometimes
> it is difficult for me to tell what attributes an instance of
> a class has. Are these conventions good?

Yes, I think so, provided a key feature of the class in question isn't
that it's inherently dynamic (in which case it's inherently infeasible
to do this) -- an example might be a class that you'd like to mimic the
interface of a module, so it effectively acts like a dictionary but it
allows attribute access to access the dictionary as well.

I certainly follow them as best as is possible in my own code; I can
only think of once instance in an old project where I don't do that, and
it's marked as ugly in the code.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
    -- Louis Wu


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 13 10:19:26 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:19:26 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:17:54 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:
>
>    Dave> Another "brute force" kind of solution would be to replace the old
>    Dave> objects with links to the new.  Every refence, no matter where it
>    Dave> came from, would be re-routed.  The inefficiency would only last
>    Dave> until you restart the program.
>
>That would require that you be able to transmogrify an object into a proxy
>of some sort without changing its address.  In theory I think this could be
>done, but not in pure Python.  It would require a helper written in C.

How about if we could just show the reference counts on all of the
reloaded objects?  That way we could know if we've missed one in our
manual search and update.  Could avoid the need for transmogrification
of objects. :>)

-- Dave



From emurphy42 at socal.rr.com  Mon Mar  1 00:56:45 2004
From: emurphy42 at socal.rr.com (Ed Murphy)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:56:45 GMT
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.01.05.57.25.838105@socal.rr.com>

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:12:48 +0000, Rainer Deyke wrote:

> Todd7 wrote:

>> What makes it better or worse than languages like perl, php, delphi,
>> or c++?

> I'll focus on the weaknesses of Python instead of the strengths.
[snip]
> 2. Python programs are somewhat difficult to distribute compared to
> programs in languages that compile to native code.

How do you figure this one?  Something to do with statically linked
libraries?  (I'm a Python newbie, but have been programming in general
for almost 20 years, about half of that professionally.)



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 13 10:01:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:01:25 -0500
Subject: drowning newbie
In-Reply-To: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <opF4c.2789$G3.23566@localhost>

elizabeth fletcher wrote:

> Want to use Sam Rushing's calldll Python Module on a windows box.  I don't
> understand how to install it.  I have several books that do not detail the
> steps in installing a 3rd party module in Windows.  Anybody want to throw me
> life preserver?

Switch to ctypes.  Easier to install, and newer, and supported, and 
easier to use, etc.  calldll is basically obsolete.

-Peter


From http  Wed Mar  3 18:43:09 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Mar 2004 15:43:09 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) writes:
> Like everyone else who has replied, I seriously question how much
> experience you have with the multitude of Python web environments
> available.

The very existence of a "multitude" of Python web environments is a
serious shortcoming of Python as a PHP replacement.  PHP comes with
one web environment, not a multitude, so you have just one manual to
read, not a multitude; one codebase to worry about keeping up with the
latest releases for, not a multitude, and so forth.  You don't have to
check out and evaluate N different web environments and K different
database interface packages, and make sure they're all in sync with
each other whenever you update anything.  PHP's web environment are
database integration right there for you the moment you install PHP.

> - PHP provides no intuitive default support for many common DB
> operations. Compare the following messes:

That's ok, Python has no default support at all, intuitive or
otherwise, for ANY db operations, common or not.

> We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
> for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
> obvious choice, and officially endorsed?

That's precisely the situation Python is in now!

> - Python tends to be slow, but slow compared to what? The laptop I
> type this message on has a 2ghz processor. It cost less than ?1000.

Yes, but we're talking about server side applications, that can have
to support thousands of users simultaneously.  They always want more
speed and rarely are found running on laptops.

> - PHP is very light on CPU, memory, and so on. I earn a modest amount
> for a 20 year old, even by Northern Ireland standards. I can't see how
> I would ever need to resort to PHP because I couldn't afford the
> hardware to run a complex Python-based site intended for viewing by
> thousands.

The site that I worked on spent TWO MILLION U.S. DOLLARS on its web
server hardware.  OK, it used Java servlets that are even slower than
Python, but you have to understand that there's a point after which
you can no longer pretend that hardware is free.


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Mar 30 03:47:40 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:47:40 +0100
Subject: ANN: Python UK Conference, 16th - 17th April 2004
Message-ID: <hdw6raab.fsf@pobox.com>

[Sorry if this appears twice -- my first post seems to have been held
up / lost]

The Python UK conference is taking place on Friday and Saturday 16th
and 17th of April, as part of the ACCU Spring Conference at the
Randolph Hotel in the centre of Oxford.  The impressive list of
speakers includes David Ascher, Alex Martelli, Armin Rigo of Psyco and
PyPy fame, Duncan Booth, Chris Withers, and core CPython and Jython
developers Michael Hudson and Samuele Pedroni.  The Python conference
follows a 2-day Open Source event with well-known open-source leader
and Pythonista Eric Raymond, co-founder of Zope corp Paul Everitt, and
a host of other interesting speakers.

http://www.accu.org/conference/

http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html

http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html


Though all the official speakers are invited, there will be
considerable space during breaks and after hours for Python
mini-talks, Birds of a Feather meetings and sprints (possibly
including a PyPy sprint).

There are also very reasonable sponsorship options (starting from ?200
for a lunchtime stand and talk) for Python companies wishing to
promote themselves; see the 'sponsorship' page of the site for
details.


John


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Mar 28 09:48:52 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:48:52 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4066E5D4.10008@prescod.net>

John Roth wrote:

> It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
> exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
> not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
> open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.

Ummm. This is also true for Python. Python classes exist at runtime.

foo = 5

class foo: # oops. I've overwritten foo
	def bar(self):
		pass

print foo
print dir(foo)
print type(foo)

  Paul Prescod





From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 28 03:10:13 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 00:10:13 -0800
Subject: Error handling in smtp
References: <a4648036.0403250322.7d064f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.393.1080214458.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403280010.38c44e74@posting.google.com>

Hi
Ya thats true but I also want what was the error  so that i could print it.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 27 11:28:25 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:28:25 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<huvv505om6eq8scvisrhsmul8b14mht5jg@4ax.com>
	<c3pj77$r8n$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<2dl160t6s26gau4o4gt2ld79s35gjsd0ma@4ax.com>
	<c41u4l$2dpj20$1@ID-210829.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cMmdnZdvjpkHF_ndRVn-hw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <h78b601p8sgkec6abjn3aqpn4rt710mi5l@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:55:04 -0600, DH <no at sp.am> wrote:

>Christian wrote:
>
>> IMHO, if the function's name has to be right after the 'def', and 'def'
>> has to be the first command in a declaration, the return type has to
>> come last
>
>I agree.
>
>I think it is neat that function decorators may be used for specifying 
>argument types and the return types, but I don't think it should be THE 
>way to always do it, because it is pretty ugly.

It isn't really specifying anything. It is just validating, which we
can do already using normal code. Using decorators to validate
arguments/return types brings them to the front, thus making them more
useful as an example of self-documenting code, but while it's an
interesting application for decorators I don't think it should be
overemphasised.

Ensuring that a parameter has a specific type is often excessive in
Python - if another type supports the right methods in the right way,
it often makes sense to call the function with arguments of that type.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 21 09:46:58 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:46:58 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.200.1079828118.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.200.1079828118.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3k9hq$28q7d4$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:


 > - Python has always been specified in terms of the language, with a
 >   portable reference interpreter implementation for that language (which
 >   just happens to compile to bytecode, and save that bytecode to disk
 >   as an optimisation).
 >
 > IOW, the bytecode is an implementation detail for _one_ interpreter
 > implementation.
 >
 > This becomes obvious when you consider the possibilities associated
 > with Jython, which could (already does?) compile Python source to jar
 > files directly.

Contrary to what you seem to be implying here, Guido never expressly designed
Python to be easily portable to run on top of other bytecode implementations.
Jython was a very difficult feat to pull and the same goes (probably moreso)
for Python.NET.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 04:20:34 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:20:34 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<7xn068bdg9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <huvv505om6eq8scvisrhsmul8b14mht5jg@4ax.com>

On 22 Mar 2004 16:43:18 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>DH <no at sp.am> writes:
>> Possible future Python example that uses "as" differently:
>>
>> def foo(x as int, y as float) as int:
>>     "this function returns an integer, and takes an int & float params"
>
>I think I'd rather use colons for that, like Pascal does, e.g.
>
>  def foo:int (x: int, y: float)
>
>hmm, the foo:int doesn't look too good.

In Ada, the type of a function return value is specified using an
explicit keyword ('returns' IIRC). I don't see the need for a unique
keyword just for that, but how about...

def foo (x: int, y: float) return int [decorators] :
def foo (x: int, y: float) yield  int [decorators] :


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 15 11:13:06 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:13:06 -0500
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
In-Reply-To: <c34ebq$9kv$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEMFJIAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jess Austin]
>> I like the way that Python does lists, and I love the way it does
>> iterators.  But I've decided I don't like what it does with iterators
>> of lists.
>> ...

[Aahz]
> I'll guarantee that it won't be fixed for 2.4.  This subject has come
> up many times long before iterators were introduced, and the answer
> has always beent the same: if you want to mutate, make a copy or make
> *very* sure that your mutations don't muck the loop.

It's worse than just that:  the Python Reference manual defines what happens
when you mutate a sequence while iterating over it, even while discouraging
it.  So the precise behavior of, e.g.,

>>> r = range(10)
>>> for x in r:
...     print x
...     r.remove(x)
0
2
4
6
8
>>>

is actually advertised behavior.  See the Warning block at the end of
section "The 'for' statement".




From smithwis at colorado.edu  Fri Mar 12 15:29:12 2004
From: smithwis at colorado.edu (Steve)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 12:29:12 -0800
Subject: Postgres BYTEA problems
References: <27ab36b3.0403031305.3e1ed4f7@posting.google.com>
	<c285dn$ibn$2@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <27ab36b3.0403121229.7c210c7f@posting.google.com>

Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote in message news:<c285dn$ibn$2 at bagan.srce.hr>...
> Steve wrote:
> 
> > a character that must be escaped.
> > so if I should be getting
> > "\x00\x01"
> > I'll get
> > "\\x00\\x01"
> 
> Are you sure that it's the dbapi driver that is doing it, or maybe the 
> data was written to the database in that way (e.g. not chr(00)+chr(01) 
> but '\' 'x' '0' '0' ...)?
Thanks for responding Ivan

I'm pretty sure that the table is beeing fed chr(00) + chr(01).  I'm
not the one generating the database(it's written in Java) however I've
seen the code and it appears to be entering in the data correctly.

Recently, to test the problem, I've gone through and inserted a string
in python that needed escaping something like this:

   >>> Db.insertable("steves",[['\001'],["test"],["\\001\\002"]])
   >>> y = Db.query("SELECT * FROM steves").getresult()
   >>> print y
   [('\001',), ('test',), ('\\001\\002',)]

And I got the double escape problem on both y[0] and y[2].  


Actually, looking at my testing I got an idea.  Do you think this
could have to do with the double escaping one must do while working
with other postgres interfaces(namely psql).  Let me clarify that
question, I'm wondering if this double escape thing is actually an
artifact of postgres and not a problem with the pg module.

My current solution is to do this simple loop that replaces all //###
with the char replacemet like so:

def no_escape(x):
    i, ret = x.find('\\'), ''
    while i != -1:
        if x[i+1].isdigit(): //number is in octal
            y = x[i+1:i+4]
            ret += x[:i] + struct.pack('B',string.atoi(y,8))
            x = x[i+4:]
        i = x.find('\\')

    return ret + x

But, of course, this solution is a little less than ideal.

Any thoughts?

--Steve


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Mar 10 11:24:33 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:24:33 -0800
Subject: Regex Match Problem
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EB7@opus.amorhq.net>

bdwise wrote:
> something();something();
> document.thisForm.textBox1.focus();something();
> 
> And I want to find a part between the semicolons that ends in focus()
> and remove the entire value between the semicolons.
> 
> My Regular Expression looks like this but it is not matching, can
> anyone help?
> 
> ";([^.]*).focus()"

Not sure if this is the final result you wanted, but it should overcome
the major hurdles (like not escaping the parentheses ;)

>>> import re
>>> a =
"something();something();document.thisForm.textBox1.focus();something();
"
>>> re.search(r';([^;]*).focus\(\);', a).groups()
('document.thisForm.textBox1',)


Hope that helps.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 19 18:10:12 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:10:12 -0500
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
In-Reply-To: <405B5E20.AD0EAB6D@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEIJJKAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Andrew Koenig]
>> I'm pretty sure that IEEE floating point requires NaN to be defined
>> in such a way that if x is NaN, then x == x must yield False.

Yes, but ... a conforming implementation of the standard requires all sorts
of comparison operators, but it's not a language standard and doesn't have
anything to say about how languages spell access to any of its facilities.
So, e.g., there must be *some* way to spell an equality operator that
doesn't consider a NaN to "be equal" to itself, but that doesn't need to be
spelled "==" (not even in a language that has an "==" comparison operator).
For example, it's fine if it needs to be spelled

    ieee.equal_considering_nans_unequal_and_unexceptional(x, y)

[Erik Max Francis]
> That's correct.  Python itself doesn't do this, though:

All Python behavior wrt IEEE gimmicks is a platform-dependent accident --
nothing is promised.

> Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 22 2003, 23:44:26) [GCC 3.2.3] on linux2
> >>> a = 1e3000
> >>> a
> inf
> >>> a/a
> nan
> >>> n = a/a
> >>> n == n
> True

While on Windows 2.3.3, the output looks very different, and the final
result is False.

For Python 2.4, Michael Hudson has patched things so that Python's 6 float
relationals deliver the same results the platform C compiler delivers for
the spelled-the-same-way-in-C float relationals.  There's still no
cross-platform guarantee about what those will do (because C makes no
guarantees here either), but at least NaN == NaN will be false on both gcc
and MSVC7-based Pythons (MSVC6-based Pythons will say NaN == NaN is true
then, but right now there are no plans to distribute an MSVC6-based Python
2.4).




From e9526547 at stud3.tuwien.ac.at  Fri Mar 26 05:45:17 2004
From: e9526547 at stud3.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Straschil)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 10:45:17 GMT
Subject: Calling function keywords from a dictionary
Message-ID: <slrnc682dt.ht.e9526547@stud3.tuwien.ac.at>

Hello!

I'm fooling around with a class wich can map cgi-parameters to
function named parameter.

I have a dic like
 dic = {
 	'action': 'myfunc',
	'x': 1,
	'y': 2,
	'z': 3
 }
 and I have a method
 def myfunc(x, y, z, a=None, b=None)

What I want to do ist calling the method defined in 'action' with
all the named parameter, also instead of
 self.myfunct(x=1, y=2, z=3)
I want to do
 f = getattr(self, dic['action'])
 f(named parameter from the dic)
Its a little like zope does it, but i didnt find it in the Zope Sources ;-)
How can do that? 

Thanks, AXEL.


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Mar 25 09:27:02 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:27:02 +1100
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
In-Reply-To: <m2y8ppvysb.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.336.1080136535.742.python-list@python.org>
	<f046efac.0403250459.2e662035@posting.google.com>
	<m2y8ppvysb.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20040325142702.GD29958@frobozz>

On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 07:31:16AM -0600, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "ketulp" == ketulp baroda <ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     ketulp> I like ur idea but this will work for only when inner list
>     ketulp> has only two elements. if inner list has five elements and
>     ketulp> i want to sort the whole list by 3rd element then how can
>     ketulp> i do this ?
> 
> The general approach is to arrange the elements in the order you want
> them sorted, sort them, and then revert to original order.  So if you
> have 5 elements, and you want them sorted by the 3rd, put the 3rd
> first.  If any two of the first elements are the same, the second
> element of the list will break the tie, and so on.
> 
> Supposing you want to sort by the 3rd element, and you don't care
> about the relative order of the other fields
> 
>   # swap the first an 3rd elements
>   tmp = [ (e[2], e[1], e[0], e[3], e[4]) for e in seq]
>   tmp.sort()
>   # swap them back
>   seq = [ (e[2], e[1], e[0], e[3], e[4]) for e in tmp]

That's more complicated than it needs to be for ketulp's use-case.

tmp = [(e[2], e) for e in seq]
tmp.sort()
seq = [t[1] for t in seq]

-Andrew.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 17 17:33:14 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:33:14 -0600
Subject: Encoded file
In-Reply-To: <20040317.123415.18463.1998145@webmail24.nyc.untd.com>
References: <20040317.123415.18463.1998145@webmail24.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <16472.53802.473161.490187@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Zhi> Could I ask you, how can I know a file is encoded as 'UTF-8',
    Zhi> 'UTF-16' or something else?

In general you can't tell.  I'm not aware of any filesystems which maintain
encoding information for individual files.  You have to know or guess.  Some
encodings carry clues (BOM, etc), but in general you have to figure it out.

Skip




From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Mar 29 23:57:26 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:57:26 -0500
Subject: Tkfont buggy for two Tk() top level windows
Message-ID: <20040330045726.GB1313@performancedrivers.com>

I'm calling Tk() twice to create two top level windows,
which works fine in every respect except fonts.
Assigning a Tkfont to widgets in the first Tk() window I create works
fine, the font looks good as it should.  But if I start a another
window by calling Tk() again the second window will always use some
awful default font.  Swapping the two lines that call Tk() will
change which one actually uses the font and which doesn't.

The code looks like:
  win_one = Tk()
  win_two = Tk()
  myfont = tkFont.Font(family="Courier", size=12)
  
  Entry(win_one, font=myfont).pack(fill='both',expand=1)
  Entry(win_two, font=myfont).pack(fill='both',expand=1)

Any text on the first window obeys the font, the second
one will always use some system default.  switching the two lines
that call Tk() reverses which window goes font happy.

If calling Tk() twice has undefined behavior I would rather it
raise a useful exception instead of continuing partially gimpy.

Debian testing, python 2.3.3, tk 8.2.3-5
This has been the behavior for 6-12 months (as long as I've been using
Tk).  Until now I just assumed I had missed a call, after checking it
out it seems to be a Tk thing.

TIA,

-jackdied





From NAIMAILVIENNA at KingdomInc.com  Tue Mar 23 22:45:40 2004
From: NAIMAILVIENNA at KingdomInc.com (GroupShield for Exchange (VIENNA))
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:45:40 -0500
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OA485_1080099940_VIENNA_1 was 
	generated
Message-ID: <6E6210A67731AB478F4CD760B14A4B9101E8914E@mail.kingdominc.com>

Action Taken:
The attachment was deleted from the message and replaced with a text file
informing the recipient of the action taken.

To:
webmaster at kingdominc.com <webmaster at kingdominc.com>

From:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

Sent:
1701793024,29626706

Subject:
Mail Delivery (failure webmaster at kingdominc.com)

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From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Tue Mar 30 10:43:23 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:43:23 +0200
Subject: PyPerl 1.0.1 [requires Visual Studio compiler?]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1080626106.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.97.1080626106.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4c4g3$6g1$1@swifty.westend.com>

Eric @ Zomething wrote:
>     error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and extensions need to
>     be built with the same version of the compiler, but it isn't installed.

I had the same problem with Borland C++ 5.5. The cause is a
different object file format for compiled C++ code: MS has COFF,
Borland has OMF and a tool named COFF2OMF. I applied the tool to
python23.dll and could then compile extensions with the Borland
compiler. I have no idea which format Mingw32 uses. But recompiling
the Python source would surely have the same effect as applying
COFF2OMF to MS binaries.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 12:38:20 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:38:20 -0700
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<uteb50lm5t0l2mf2f3lklmr3ruusj3mfjv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j4qb505fhlukq14p92ae961bfuhsurfo08@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:43:20 GMT, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com>
wrote:

>>
>>I think I may have misunderstood your original question.  The title of
>>the thread is 'loop scope', but your question seems to be specifically
>>on the loop iteration variable 't'.  Just think of it as a normal
>>variable in the current local scope.
>
>I can. But it's not my first inclination.  And I would speculate I am
>far from alone. Having subtleties to be aware of in something as
>fundamenatal as a for loop is not a great thing, IMO. On the hand
>hand, it was a long time before any subtleties here had any practical
>implications to me.  I had been getting away with ignorance.  But its
>not a good feeling to know that.
>
>t=None #(or something) 
>
>required prior to a loop would  assure I am conscious of what I am
>getting myself into.  Without it, it seems it isn't safe to assume the
>user understands the full implications of simply complying with
>required loop syntax.
>
>Wouldn't something like this make sense:
>
>With a loop iteration variable declared explicitly in the curent scope
>and prior to the loop, it survives the loop.  Otherwise it is treated
>as a placeholder within the loop, and goes out of scope at its
>conclusion.

This is a little too tricky for my taste.  Often we need to 'break'
from a loop, and subsequently use the value of 't'.  If we forget to
"declare" 't' outside the loop, then we will have a situation where
you get a run-time error if the loop ends without a break.

What is the benefit of keeping 't' out of the surrounding local
scope?"  This whole thread seems pointless unless there is a
substantial benefit to changing the current behavior.

-- Dave



From bouil at bouil.org.invalid  Tue Mar 16 02:26:08 2004
From: bouil at bouil.org.invalid (Nicolas Bouillon)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:26:08 +0100
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
In-Reply-To: <c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<mailman.11.1079394951.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c35oc7$3t5$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <EWx5c.30346$zm5.12052@nntpserver.swip.net>

Thank you both for your answer. They works well both very good.

First, i believe i doesn't work, because the error i've made is to 
forgot the "u" for string : u"?". Because my file was already utf-8 
encoded (# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-), i thinks the "u" is not necessary... 
i was wrong.

Bye.


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 14:06:28 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:06:28 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <20040330132021.GD27344@nl.linux.org>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<20040330132021.GD27344@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <4069C534.1050802@mlug.missouri.edu>


>>A2. People that bitch about top-posting.
>>    
>>
>
>Mark - I really find it a bit difficult to read your postings. I keep
>scrolling to below to see whether there is still more to come - because you
>do sometimes quote others and then answer below. When I see quoting in a
>message, I automatically assume there's more to come, and I am not the
>only one. I think it is the wrong answer to say that people shouldn't
>bitch about top-posting - it _does_ annoy people (including me and Aahz).
>There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they are there
>with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
>'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.
>
>Really, it does - please try it...
>  
>
The 'standard' I've seen worked out in about a decade of watching this 
exact argument.. when responding to individual parts of someones message 
then post your reply directly underneath the section you're replying to. 
If you're making a short response to the entire message it's okay to top 
post. Of course, either bottom or top posting, clip any text in the 
previous messages you aren't directly responding to.



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 02:12:16 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:12:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <c38t3f$8pj$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040317071216.57278.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Martin.  

I am using bash, so should I add the following line to
.bash_profile?

export LANG=zh_CN

Please let me know.

Thanks a lot.

--- "Martin_v._L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> > OK, gotcha. By the way, do you know how to set the
> > default language of Mandrake or any linux system,
> so
> > that I can probably mimic.
> 
> You need to set the LANG environment variable. This
> is best done on a per-user basis, e.g. in the .login
> file of the user. Setting LANG to zh_CN should give
> you a (simplified) Chinese environment. Python 2.3
> will automatically pick up that setting when
> printing
> Unicode strings.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Mar  8 10:43:00 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:43:00 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <ESJTAls/KHYb089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <vpbth1-drb.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>,
"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
>> > What you have is what many other languages allow with integers after break or
>> > continue statements.  For example you can do 'break 2' or 'continue 3' to
>> > break or continue out of the respective number of enclosing for loops.
>>
>> Yuck.  Bletch.  Barf.
>
>Care to expand on that?  It is a construct present in shell scripting

Well, say you decide that several lines of code should be executed
repeatedly.  You can stick in the while...: , your editor can indent
the block, then you have to hunt for numbered `continue` and `break` and
increment some, but not all of the numbers.  Unnumbered `continue` and
`break` cause similar trouble, but the trouble is guaranteed to be more
local.  For non-local I much prefer the exit-by-exception.

        Regards.        Mel.


From wfolta at netmail.to  Tue Mar  2 18:57:32 2004
From: wfolta at netmail.to (Wayne Folta)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:57:32 -0500
Subject: Ruby like syntactic sugar
In-Reply-To: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
References: <5349af3f.0403021326.ed19d8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5EA73B3F-6CA5-11D8-9B35-000A959CB2EC@netmail.to>

It seems your solution could be the basis for rubyesque Python. (Do you 
have it backwards regarding Ruby, though? Isn't 5.times the way a loop 
is done and the for-loop-looking construct is the syntactic sugar?)

But on a personal note, I'd add that the

> 5.times { print "Hello World!" }

syntax is the idiom that persuaded me Ruby is not for me. In my 
opinion, this construct is either too clever by half or it's too 
Smalltalkish (everything must be classed). It makes some sense when 
spoken, but I fail to see how a looping method belongs to the class of 
numbers, so it troubles me too much to use or to enjoy a language where 
this is natural.




From twic at urchin.earth.li  Fri Mar  5 10:21:57 2004
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:21:57 +0000
Subject: alternate module installation
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403051503001.28792-100000@urchin.earth.li>

right, i'm trying to install Mark Pilgrim's feedparser package, and one
thing it mentions is that it likes to have libxml2 and mxTidy around. i've
downloaded these, and done configure/make on the C bits, but i'd now like
to make them available to python.

i've read the very helpful Installing Python Modules manual, and
determined that (a) libxml2 and mxtidy have distutils-approved setup.py
scripts (although feedparser doesn't, but i don't mind that) and (b) since
i'm on a unix (debian linux) machine on which i'm a lowly luser, i
probably need to do an Alternate Installation (The Home Scheme), just
sticking things in my home directory.

however, when i say:

python setup.py install --home=~

it says:

failed to find headers for libxml2: update includes_dir

can anyone explain what's going wrong, and what i might do to make it go
right? there's probably something really obvious i should do, or read, but
i'm completely at sea with all this.

thanks,
tom

-- 
Force the weird stuff down!



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Mar 28 05:58:48 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 02:58:48 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc6crti.dit.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> 
> You could just put the function call in your base class's __init__
> method.  (Or, in fact, put the code from that call directly there, if
> you only care when you inherit from the one Zope class.)

Uh? The base class __init__ method is not called when I derive a new
class. I want to make the make the check at class level, *before*
instantiating. 

 Michele Simionato


From lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 29 07:05:21 2004
From: lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk (Les Smithson)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 13:05:21 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Pymqi 0.5 MQ Interface released
Message-ID: <mailman.1080573485.3729.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Pymqi 0.5 is now available at http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/pymqi. This
version adds support for MQ 5.3 SSL client connections and a PCF
interface. 

Pymqi is a Python extension for IBM's Messaging & Queueing middleware,
MQSeries (aka WebSphere MQ family). This allows Python scripts to make
calls directly to MQI to connect queues and get/put messages on them
etc.

Pymqi combines the power of Python with the benefits of the messaging
model. It can be used to develop test harnesses for MQ based systems,
for rapid prototyping of MQ applications, for development of
administrative GUI's (when combined with e.g., TkInter), and even for
mainstream MQ application development!

Pymqi does not replace MQI, but is layered on top of it, so you must
have MQ (either client or server) installed before you can use it.



From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Mar  4 16:13:34 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:13:34 -0800
Subject: maximum element?
In-Reply-To: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>
References: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <c2865u$es6$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Ivan Voras wrote:
> What is the 'most pythonic' way of searching the largest element in a 
> list/tuple?

max(list)

> My 'standard' idea is:
> 
> max = list[0]   # or -infinity, or whatever...
> for i in list:
>     if i > max:
>         max = i
> 
> While this is ok, I somehow 'feel' there could be a more concise 
> solution... :)

Indeed.  :-)

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From fletcher at worldnet.att.net  Sun Mar 14 12:17:06 2004
From: fletcher at worldnet.att.net (elizabeth fletcher)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:17:06 GMT
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<opF4c.2789$G3.23566@localhost>
Message-ID: <ms05c.13644$Pa7.356489@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Thank you all for using your powers for good.  :)
"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:opF4c.2789$G3.23566 at localhost...
> elizabeth fletcher wrote:
>
> > Want to use Sam Rushing's calldll Python Module on a windows box.  I
don't
> > understand how to install it.  I have several books that do not detail
the
> > steps in installing a 3rd party module in Windows.  Anybody want to
throw me
> > life preserver?
>
> Switch to ctypes.  Easier to install, and newer, and supported, and
> easier to use, etc.  calldll is basically obsolete.
>
> -Peter




From jolsen at mail2world.com  Thu Mar 18 10:12:51 2004
From: jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:12:51 GMT
Subject: dictionary wart
In-Reply-To: <mailman.131.1079621533.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.128.1079618371.742.python-list@python.org>	<5Bi6c.11865$g4.240193@news2.nokia.com>
	<mailman.131.1079621533.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <T%i6c.11986$k4.248840@news1.nokia.com>

Jonathan Daugherty wrote:

> Python isn't ruby; so don't compare them.
> 

No, I suppose that would be a sin.

Jesper


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Mar 11 04:15:54 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 10:15:54 +0100
Subject: Scope question
References: <c2p3fc$1uqag0$1@ID-64892.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyfllm768xh.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Subhash Chandra <nospam_yschandra at yahoo.com> writes:

> How can I make counter variable in function foo reference to global
> counter variable in the following code.

add the line "   global counter" just after "def foo():"

> Generally C programmers tend to write code like that I am looking
> for simple way to do it in python.

Generally C programmers do horrible things. Please consider whether
you really, really should be emulating C style in Python.

> --- BEGIN ---
> counter = 0
> 
> def foo():
>    if counter < 10:
>      print "count = ", counter
>      counter += 1
> 
> foo()
> --- END ---


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 31 14:32:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:32:47 -0500
Subject: Followup: big projects, games, reload
Message-ID: <c4f6cn$to9$1@sea.gmane.org>

People fairly frequently ask about Python being used in big projects,
commercial projects, commercial games, etc.  There was also a recent thread
on the limitations of 'reload' and what one might do to get the reload
behavior one wants...

One of the PyCon talks that most surprised *me* is this:
http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/29/Panda3D.htm

It seems that Disney's rather successful ToonTown Online (
http://toontown.com )
is scripted in Python on top of their now open sourced Panda3D (C++)
engine.
( http://www.etc.cmu.edu/panda3d )
This answers the first set of questions in the affirmative.

One of their reasons for using Python is to be able to do the following:

"Redefining methods:

One of the truly powerful features of Panda3D is that you can stop a
simulation, redefine a method, and start from that point again. This is
done using Python features. Panda3D recursively digs through namespaces to
find the definition of the class or methods and then swaps them for the
new, thus rebinding the new version. There is also special code written to
dig out all the stored function pointers, such as events and tasks, and
replace those as well."

I think this nicely illustrates what I saw as the conclusion of the reload
thread: if one wants a reload function that does exactly what one wants in
a particular application, one should write it oneself, and with effect, one
can do so.

Terry J. Reedy






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 16:21:19 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:21:19 -0600
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
In-Reply-To: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <16456.61263.327619.243980@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Bart> Is there a shred module in Python? You know, the kind that
    Bart> overwrites files that one doesn't want others to see? 

I've never used shred before, but here's an essentially untested stab at the
problem:

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    import os
    import random
    import sys
    import md5

    def shred(f, npasses=5):
        sz = os.path.getsize(f)
        for n in range(npasses):
            dig = md5.new(file(f).read()).hexdigest()
            print >> sys.stderr, "pass:", n+1,
            print >> sys.stderr, "digest:", dig
            chars = [chr(i) for i in range(128)]
            random.shuffle(chars)
            chars = "".join(chars)
            bytesleft = sz
            fp = file(f, "wb")
            while bytesleft:
                nbytes = min(bytesleft, 128)
                fp.write(chars[:nbytes])
                bytesleft -= nbytes
            fp.close()
        dig = md5.new(file(f).read()).hexdigest()
        print >> sys.stderr, "last digest:", dig
        os.unlink(f)

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        tmpf = "dummyf"
        file(tmpf, "wb").write(file("/etc/hosts").read()*5)
        shred(tmpf)

Note that it does no error checking, nor does it have any force write arg.

Skip



From python at rcn.com  Wed Mar 24 04:24:53 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 01:24:53 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403240124.2a80e784@posting.google.com>

[Trevor Perrin] 
> I'm proposing that getrandstring() (returning a string) is a better 
> primitive than getrandbits() (returning a long). 
<snip>
> This would be easy to implement with Mersenne Twister too.  Though it 
> would involve some rewriting.
> 
> Do you think this is worthwhile?

Sorry, I do not think that introducing a string method into an
otherwise numeric module would make it easier to use.

The is doubly true because the API also requires that new generators
implement random(), returning a float, which means that you have to
convert to a number at some point anyway.

What might be nice is if longs had methods for converting to and from
bytestrings.  Currently, the knowledge for how to do that is
sequestered in the pickle module.


Raymond


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 30 10:22:58 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:22:58 -0500
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com><1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com><roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com><58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com><c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de><37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04><c4avp5$2g4b0b$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4c3cb$fes$1@sea.gmane.org>

What is 'this'?  Who is 'you'?  Where is the original suggestion?  What did
who say what is fragile?

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:1J8ac.68390$cx5.23284 at fed1read04...
> I need a better understanding of this.  You are suggesting the self stay
> with a function like a closure of sorts?
>
> In my mind, anytime you say obj.func(), func is called on obj, no ifs
ands
> or buts.  How could it be otherwise?  When would you want it otherwise?
>
> You say fragile.  What breaks?

Trying to read cryptic top-posted comments that require me to spend minutes
trying to find the most like referent in order to make any sense is too
much work for me.  I won't do it.  Good bye.

Terry J. Reedy






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 31 11:29:13 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:29:13 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04><c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04><mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org><4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr><406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <c4erkh$s62$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Didier Morandi" <no at spam.com> wrote in message
news:c4e6jv$10te$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> What against-top-posting people do not WANT to understand is that the
very first
> interest of posting is, to me, to get help or information.
>
> So, you post your question and, by definition, you remember what it was
(well, I
> hope so).

SourceForge adds new comments to tracker items to the top of the comments
section.  If you are are the original poster, and get a new report emailed
with every comment, and get and read them in order, then newest at top is,
I admit, helpful.  BUT if you look at an old, unresolved, bug report with
several comments, perhaps to see if you can help, then the format is a
major nuisance.  Read the original report at the top.  Then jump down to
the bottom and back up to the top of the first comment and read down.  Then
scan up to find the top of the second comment and read down.  and so on.

The solution, to me, are more easily customizable information readers and
managers.  Then one could have, for instance, a module specifically for
interacting with the SourceForge database, complete with user-preference
settings.  (Does one exist now?  that I don't know of?)

Terry J. Reedy






From m.bless at gmx.de  Wed Mar  3 04:47:17 2004
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:47:17 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<mailman.39.1078245647.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4045a616.8831515@news.t-online.de>

[David Goodger <goodger at python.org>]

>you should write a PEP.  Without a PEP, the idea will be forgotten.

Good advice, good encouragement, thanks.

I'd really like to. But unfortunately I've discovered the weak point
in my own argumentation: a new keyword could and probably would break
existing code. Therefore I can't go for a PEP until I have a better
idea.

Ok, then let's use some wrappers or helper functions. Here's the one I
currently like:

#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
"""Do some experiments on write statements."""

__author__ = "Martin Bless, 2004-03-03"

class Writer:

    def __init__(self,writer=None):
        if writer is None:
            import sys
            self.writer = sys.stdout
        else:
            self.writer = writer

    def write(self,*args):
        for arg in args:
            self.writer.write(str(arg))

    __call__ = write

    def to(self,writer,*args):
        for arg in args:
            writer.write(str(arg))

write = Writer()
NL = '\n'
import sys
stderr = Writer(sys.stderr)

if __name__=="__main__":
    import sys
    outfile = sys.stdout or file('demo_tempfile','w')
    write('#', '-->'*10, NL)
    write('Starting.',NL)
    write(__doc__,NL)
    write("write(1,2,3,4,NL)=>", 1,2,3,4,NL)
    write("write('This',' ','is',' ','a',' ','demo.',NL)=>",
          'This',' ','is',' ','a',' ','demo.',NL)
    write.to( outfile,"write.to(outfile,5,6,7,8,NL)=>",5,6,7,8,NL)
    stderr("stderr('A number in parentheses: (', 77, ').', NL)=>",
           'A number in parentheses: (',77,').',NL)
    write('Done.',NL)
    write('#', '<--'*10, NL)

    """Output should be:
#-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->
Starting.
Do some experiments on write statements.
write(1,2,3,4,NL)=>1234
write('This',' ','is',' ','a',' ','demo.',NL)=>This is a demo.
write.to(outfile,5,6,7,8,NL)=>5678
stderr('A number in parentheses: (',77,').',NL)=>A number in
parentheses: (77).
Done.
#<--<--<--<--<--<--<--<--<--<--
    """

This comes pretty close to what I was aiming at. But of course it's
just my version and different people will create different solutions.

mb - Martin Bless


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 19:02:20 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:02:20 -0800
Subject: read/enter text based on cursor position
In-Reply-To: <da063e5d.0403131436.355454d1@posting.google.com>
References: <da063e5d.0403131436.355454d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c35gc0$o06$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> -----------------------------------
> Windows Application               X
> -----------------------------------
> Name:
> Address:
> City:
> State:
> Zip:
> -----------------------------------

I'm curious as to why you don't use a combination of static text 
elements and text entry widgets.  From what I've been able to see with 
virtually every app I've ever used, read source code of, or otherwise, 
that is what most people do.  Is there some architectural limitation 
where you cannot use them?

  - Josiah


From ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Mar  1 12:32:00 2004
From: ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:32:00 GMT
Subject: Reading selected data from text files
References: <c1njho$adr$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<MVK%b.7974$lS1.1103@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<c1vl6l$lle$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <ksK0c.16948$qo.7659@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"..:: sjf ::.." <sjf at autograf.pl> wrote in message
news:c1vl6l$lle$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
> U?ytkownik "Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net> napisa? w
wiadomo?ci
> news:MVK%b.7974$lS1.1103 at fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > "..:: sjf ::.." <sjf at autograf.pl> wrote in message
> > news:c1njho$adr$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
> > > Hello Pythoners!
> > >
> > > There are a lot of files containing data such as:
> > >
> > > file1:
> > > 0950 1550
> > >
> > > file22:
> > > 0952 1552
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > --
> > > ..:: sjf ::..
> > > "Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"
> > Try this:
> >
> > import sets
> > import os
> >
> > uniqueElems = sets.Set()
> >
> > testdata = """
> > 0950 1550
> > 0952 1552
> > 1000 1020 1050 1130 1150 1200 1245 1600
> > 1002 1022 1052 1132 1152 1202 1247 1602
> > 1005 1025 1055 1135 1155 1205 1250 1605
> > """
> > for line in testdata.split("\n"):
> >     uniqueElems.update( line.split() )
> >     # if running Python 2.3.1 or later, replace previous line with
> >     # uniqueElems |= line.split()
>                              ^^^^^^^
> OK, but what is that?
>
>
In 2.3.1, the Set() class defines a "|=" operator that will add all elements
of a list to the set.

Also, update() is deprecated in 2.3.1 in favor of union_update(),
intersection_update(), and, um, some other update() that I can't recall off
the top of my head, something like "negative_intersection_update" or
something.

-- Paul




From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Sat Mar 13 22:23:00 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:23:00 GMT
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <mailman.13.1079231349.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oeQ4c.13715$8G2.11761@fe3.columbus.rr.com>


"Eric @ Zomething" <eric at zomething.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.13.1079231349.745.python-list at python.org...
>> I have experience about 4 years of Java experience (designed and developed
>> numerous projects as a consultant in the past), 10+ years of Oracle
>> experience, about 5 years of Perl experience so programming is not a problem
>> . I guess my main point that I should have touch upon was learning Python
>> and influencing management to go the Python route in a company where Java is
>> the standard.

> Question: in terms of these kind of objectives, how important are a world
class IDE and world >class libraries?

>Python: Batteries are included, but do we need 110/220v power source as part of
the package for >the "next phase"?  Or, from perhaps a Guido perspective, is
that going beyond what Python was >intended for?

>Eric Pederson
>"Anything is possible" - LB


I feel that a world class IDE is not important to meet my objectives. I have
always taken the position that an IDE is only as good as the programmer who is
using it so I like to focus on programming concepts and techniques rather than
tools.  Once an understanding of a language is achieved, an IDE can be used as a
tool to assist a programmer or developer.

A module repository like Perl's CPAN or a beefed up Python module repository
with good documentation would be a plus.  That would be starting point towards a
rich/world class type library. The main factor would be easy of use, good
documentation and a resource to review before attempting to develop a class or
module.

Every programming language must develop and adapt to the needs of its user-based
as times goes on, so I think that having 110/200v power source could be a step
in the right direction in the 'next phase'.  There should be no limits on the
things that a program language can do and placing restraints on a programming
language could be a one way ticket to the programming language graveyard as time
goes on. Each programming language, let it be COBOL, Perl, etc.,.., had been
intended for a specific purpose but as time goes on, some start to realize that
the language that they are using could be used for other purposes. A programming
language is a limited as the person who is using it.

kbass




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Mar 12 07:48:56 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:48:56 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>

Premshree Pillai schrieb:
> How do I force static typing in Python?

You have to enforce it by code instead of declaration, i.e. you
have to do runtime type checking. This could be done e.g. within
a class:

class doesTypeChecking:
     def __init__self():
         aString = ""
         aFloat = 0.0

     def __setAttr__(self, attr, value):
         if type(self.__dict__[attr] != type(value):
             raise ValueError, "Type mismatch for attribute %s\n" % attr

Similar code could be used to check parameters of a function/
method.

Have looked at pychecker? It's not part of the python
distribution but it could help here.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Mon Mar 29 11:30:09 2004
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (Paul Clinch)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:30:09 +0100
Subject: Async example of SSL in M2Crypto
Message-ID: <c49iui$o4o$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>


Has anyone tried the echod-async.py example in m2crypto-0.12/demo/ssl?
I am only connecting one client, the echo.py example in the same directory.
Although the synchronous and threading examples work ok, the async server
goes into an infinite loop:-

LOOP: SSL accept: before/accept initialization
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 read client hello A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 write server hello A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 write certificate A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 write key exchange A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 write certificate request A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 flush data
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 read client certificate A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 read client key exchange A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 read certificate verify A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 read finished A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 write change cipher spec A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 write finished A
LOOP: SSL accept: SSLv3 flush data
INFO: SSL accept: SSL negotiation finished successfully
LOOP: SSL accept: before/accept initialization
INFO: SSL accept: SSLv3 read client hello B
INFO: SSL accept: SSLv3 read client hello B
INFO: SSL accept: SSLv3 read client hello B
etc...

I'm runnung on a newish linux, kernel 2.4.21. Both python2.1 and python2.3
display the same result. 

Regards, Paul Clinch



From ad_scriven at postmaster.co.uk  Fri Mar  5 05:40:12 2004
From: ad_scriven at postmaster.co.uk (Antony Scriven)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 02:40:12 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.15.1078414811.24397.python-list@python.org>
	<221dd125.0403041853.2c6eb5d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ac6de390.0403050240.17c5e17@posting.google.com>

spam_bait101 wrote:

 > Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote [...]
 >
 > > > Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
 > > > vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
 > > > docs, books or tutorials)
 > >
 > > Just do:
 > >
 > >    :h python
 > >
 >
 > Thanks, but that is more like a very abbreviated tutorial. Where can I
 > can the real documentation? [...]
 > I want the real documentation for the "vim" module accessible
 > from vim. What classes, functions, values are defined there, etc

:let @/='The vim module'|se hls
:h python

Is that not it?

Antony


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  4 14:46:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:46:58 -0600
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
In-Reply-To: <40478323.4060604@aon.at>
References: <20040304190419.20224.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<40478323.4060604@aon.at>
Message-ID: <16455.34738.946872.823285@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >>> if sig not in d.keys():

vs.

    >> if sig not in d.iterkeys():

vs.

    if sig not in d:

The first must build the list of keys then search it sequentially.  The
second doesn't have to build the entire list, but still searches
sequentially.  The third effectively tries d[sig] and catches the KeyError
exception of sig is not a key in d.  The third is O(1) in the general case.
The others are O(len(d)).

Skip



From adam_gautier at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 12:15:12 2004
From: adam_gautier at yahoo.com (Adam T. Gautier)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:15:12 -0500
Subject: httplib problem
Message-ID: <4065B6A0.5010105@yahoo.com>

I am unable to get the following to work with the 
httplib.response.read() method.  It returns ''.  Other URLs work fine 
with my code just not this one.  Do I need to set a header or something? 
the webserver is Tux I have not tried this on a similar url to apache.

http://mirror.linux.duke.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/

Any help would be great.



From ark at acm.org  Thu Mar  4 14:43:40 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:43:40 GMT
Subject: how fast is Python code - another detail
References: <404778E4.9090601@aon.at> <c280b0$1g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <MFL1c.72838$aH3.2231792@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c280b0$1g3$03$1 at news.t-online.com...

> key in theDict.keys()

> changes the lookup from constant time (a hash value is calculated which is
> used as an index into a list of values if all goes well) to proportonial
to
> len(theDict) because on average half of the list has to be searched before
> the matching entry is found.

Worse:  Evaluating theDict.keys() requires building a list from all the
keys.  So even if the key is the first element of the list, the run time is
O(len(theDict)).

Moreover, there's no way for the compiler to optimize such expressions in
general, because it doesn't know the type of theDict during compilation.




From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 08:15:53 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:15:53 GMT
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc630qv.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3 at 4ax.com>, David MacQuigg wrote:
> A less generic keyword will lead to odd phrases like "has int" or
> "with staticmethod", or different keywords for each phrase.

Sure.  "has int" is perfectly legible for "this function has the 'int'
property".  Naming a property "int" would be stupid and confusing, but
that's not the syntaxes fault.  (Of course, even if we use decorators to
name things that can be seen as "properties" of functions - like
staticmethod - that's not how they're implemented, so "has" isn't great.
"def ... with" as short for "define this with the following decorators"
is perfectly legible, though.

Different keywords for each phrase wouldn't work at all - there's no set
list of phrases!  You're supposed to be able to define your own.

> Re-use of the same symbol to mean "modified syntax" in any context,
> will avoid the Perl problem (too many symbols with idiosyncratic
> meanings).  Beginners will learn very quickly that the special symbol
> means "similar to the standard syntax, but RTFM if you don't yet know
> this variation".  Locating the right documentation will be easy,
> because it will always be at the end of the discussion on the normal
> form of the statement.

I'm not clear on what you mean by "modified syntax".  If it's accepted
into the language, it's a standard syntax, so marking it with a symbol
makes no sense.  If you mean to mark things for preprocessors, sure, a
standard symbol would be a great idea, but we're not talking about
preprocessors here.

> I would give an example, but I worry it will degenerate this
> discussion into a debate over whether it looks like something bad in
> language X.  Let's see if we can discuss this on a higher level first.
> Does it make sense to have a general symbol for modifications of the
> simple standard syntax?

If you mean marking some bits of the language as being second-class,
absolutely not.

It may make sense to have comment character meaning "ignore the
keyword after this - it's for an external, mechanical tool".  Doxygen
and others already have conventions for this (not to mention the #!
syntax), but it would be helpful to have a common agreed-on format.  I
think that would arise better as something the various tool vendors
evolve among themselves, though.

Joe


From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Mar 31 00:36:00 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:36:00 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: using third party TCL library
In-Reply-To: <20040330164401.60455.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20040330164401.60455.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403310831100.3418@sampo.csc.fi>

> My question is where can I put this file so that the
> TCL invoced from the python shell gets it.

On Windows, try putting your Tcl source in a directory like:
C:\\Python23\tcl\

On Linux I'm not sure, but you could try something like /usr/local/lib/.

Cheers,

Mickel Gr?nroos

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Sat Mar 27 14:39:06 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 11:39:06 -0800
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0403271139.701d1a5e@posting.google.com>

"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message news:<SB49c.47641$Bg.20541 at fed1read03>...
> Is there a good module for sending out email?
> 
> For a website that I am working on, I am writing a program that finds out
> which presenters have not yet confirmed their scheduled date and sends them
> an email to confirm.
> 
> Does python have any modules for use with mail programs like sendmail, or
> should I just run everything with os.system and os.popen?
> 
> Thanks for any help.

... and using imaplib, you could *listen* to an email account for
confirmations and thus, know if the confirm info as reached the
presenters brain !-)

jean-marc
Spring is in the air


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 14:20:50 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:20:50 -0800
Subject: [OT] Static typing and split brains research
References: <4061ca3a$0$124$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <donn-12519F.11205024032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <4061ca3a$0$124$3a628fcd at reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>,
 anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:
...
> So after this long intro I would like to make the link to programmers
> that are using some kind of programming language and getting results
> consistent with their world view. Once one has decided that static
> typing is necessary and accordingly uses a statically typed language
> the brain just fills in the details and the programmer lives in a
> consistent world. The same goes for dynamically typed languages of
> course.
> 
> Now imagine a situation where ones job is dependent on "believing" in
> some kind of information technology infrastructure. Now we don't even
> have the option to believe otherwise, because it would damage our
> career opportunities.
> 
> In these circumstances it is incredibly hard to gather scientific
> evidence about programmer productivity as correlated to the use of
> certain programming languages. But at least we now have begun to
> understand *why* that is so hard. I hope someone fills in the blanks
> of this theory :-)

Bah.  I think most of the venom with which people here reject
static typing comes from experience with it - either in school
or at work.  Personally, my enthusiasm for it comes from using
Python for approximately a decade.  Experience with one may as
easily lead to a preference for the other.  But not necessarily -
experience affects the outcome, but personality, strengths and
weaknesses inherent in the individual play a role.

And the terms "static typing" and "dynamic typing" are part of
the problem.  Better say "Java typing", "Hindley-Milner typing"
(ML, Haskell), "Python typing", "Perl typing", etc.  One reason
there is so little agreement on these matters is that we mean
different things by the same phrase.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 14:35:45 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:35:45 -0000
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
	<mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list@python.org>
	<106b6ivetpf0bc0@corp.supernews.com>
	<mqtgj1-ik6.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <106blshqp92v4dc@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mqtgj1-ik6.ln1 at snout.lairds.org>,
Kyler Laird  <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote:
>claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
>>smtplib presents a few other, even more marginal issues.  If an
>>installed MTA enforces institutional standards (disclaimers, archi-
>>ving, ...), smtplib is likely to subvert those.
>
>How so?
>
>The example for smtplib given here
>	http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/SMTP-example.html
>appears to relay mail through "localhost".  That will typically be
>equivalent to using the "installed MTA", right?
>
>--kyler

All true, and by neglecting to read the manual recently, I've
confused things.  Thanks for the correction.  

*I* have the habit of doing something that I now see the smtplib
documentation does not recommend--'fact, I now suspect that it
never did, and that it's my own memory that introduced all the
problems.  Here's what I should have written before: 
  smtplib is great.  If you get in the habit of using
  it to connect directly to the far endpoint, as I do,
  you risk the surprise of finding situations where a
  local MTA is an advantage.  In any case, though,
  smtplib can always be configured do at least as much
  for you as shelling out to a local mailer.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar  6 19:54:45 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:54:45 -0700
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<cr9k4015r8nc2a0ffheih0p2c6vj6rrcip@4ax.com>
	<du7smglfx71.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <8dqk409dl1ncfq77kfipe7bj7dt64p0iif@4ax.com>

On 07 Mar 2004 00:05:38 +0200, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com>
wrote:

>>>>>> "David" == David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:
>
>    David> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:15:44 +0000, Jonathon McKitrick
>    David> <jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org> wrote:
>
>    David> I believe the licensing issue with Qt is overblown.  If
>    David> your work is purely non-commercial, use the GPL license.
>    David> If you are a typical commercial developer, it should be no
>    David> problem to pay $1550 per developer license (no runtime
>    David> royalties).  I've heard there are problems for commercial
>    David> developers who can't afford the $1550.  I would say, don't
>    David> worry.  If your project fails to make a profit, I really
>    David> doubt Trolltech is going to sue you.  I think they would be
>    David> quite happy to get the first $1550 of any successful
>    David> project.
>
>So you urge people to break copyright law until they can afford to pay
>the license? I would expect such a behaviour to prove extremely
>problematic and dangerous.

I'm not urging anyone to break the law, not even those few commercial
developers who can't afford the the license.  What I'm saying is that
if you are in this rare situation, can't afford the licesne, and not
sure your product will ever be sold, you just have to be careful not
to release the product before paying your dues.  The only "danger" I
can see is that code developed before you have paid for the commercial
license could get loose and allow someone to claim it as GPL and avoid
paying your license.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problems and
dangers you forsee.  Could you be more specific?

>I would suggest instead that all the "valuable", back end parts of a
>program be coded UI-independently (good idea in any case), and then
>finally GUI is tacked on by connecting it to the back end via CORBA
>(or equivalent). That way the GUI (which is worthless w/o the back
>end) can be GPL'd.

This seems to me a deliberate thwarting of Trolltech's intentions.  It
may be legal, but to me it seems like taking advantage of their
generosity in offering a GPL license at all.  I also question the
legality.  It gets down to a question of whether "connecting via
CORBA" is equivalent to "linking".  There is certainly more danger in
that than anything I am suggesting.  There is also danger on the GPL
end.  It seems like what you are suggesting is no different than
releasing a program under GPL, but with-holding a key piece for which
you charge a license.

>OTOH, I would probably just use GTK or wxPython. In fact, I wouldn't
>even bother learning Qt - GPL or a crapload of Euros probably won't be
>terms an average employer would approve (esp. if you have to use
>Windows at work), so Qt would be restricted to home use alone.

Once it is clear your project will go commercial, just pay the license
and avoid the worries.  Surly $1550 is no big deal at that point.  I
have never understood the intensity of this debate over the Qt
licenses.  I guess I never will.

-- Dave



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 12 13:29:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:29:48 -0500
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
In-Reply-To: <mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<xDh4c.2727$G3.21355@localhost>
	<mailman.310.1079101227.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Mmn4c.2752$G3.22542@localhost>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Regarding
> 
>     >> del sys.modules['modulename']; import modulename
> 
> vs.
> 
>     >> del modulename ; import modulename
> 
> Peter sez:
> 
>     Peter> Just to clarify, *neither* of the above solutions does anything
>     Peter> useful, as far as I know.  Only reload() will really reload a
>     Peter> module.  Certainly the del mod/import mod approach is practically
>     Peter> a no-op...
> 
> Not so.  del sys.modules['mod']/import mod is effectively what reload()
> does.  

Oops, sorry.  On reflection that seems logical, but I thought there was 
a little more to reload() than just this. :-(

-Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Mar 24 05:26:32 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 12:26:32 +0200
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Jacek" == Jacek Trzmiel <sc0rp at hot.pl> writes:

    Jacek> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
    >> ... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is
    >> static typing ...

    Jacek> Care to provide some examples to back this opinion up?

Programming is just a lot of work in statically typed languages, so
you need to work very hard to get even the basic functionality
working. You might not have energy/time/money to make proper unit
tests after/during the development.

I'm not sure whether this is because of static typing in general, or
just because current industry-standard statically typed languages
suck.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Mon Mar 29 19:28:31 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 00:28:31 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <mailman.475.1080412762.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40661C14.8365E058@doe.carleton.ca> <c49kgu$r24$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4068BF28.3821F416@doe.carleton.ca>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <40661C14.8365E058 at doe.carleton.ca>,
> Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
> >
> >On the topic of speed, It's surprising to hear that this can be
> >possibly rivaled by Perl/Python, considering that even my matlab code
> >is about 10x slower than C++.  That's with extensive profiling and
> >round-about coding styles to exploit vectorization tricks, and no such
> >effort in the C++ code.
> 
> The reason people say this is because algorithmic experimentation is
> cheap in Python/Perl.  An O(NlogN) algorithm in Python/Perl will lose to
> an O(N^2) algorithm in C/C++ with a few elements, but as the data set
> grows, the O(NlogN) algorithm will pull ahead.


The STL library brings in some efficiently implemented algorithms
to the C++ world instead of having programmings roll their own code.
The problem I saw with matlab was the overhead in between calling
such algorithms.  For example, all the individual built-in's work
fast, but the moment you call your own function, you lose all the
speed that was painfully obtained by carefully crafted code.  In
fact, if you rely on loops containing complex control flow, it
hinders matlab's acceleration technology (which vectorizes loop
operations).  Same with many operators.  In another response, I
mentioned that to ensure that one wouldn't run into similar
difficulties with Perl/Python would require a real-sized
application to be implemented and tested, with all the features
such as overhead between function calls -- a nontrivial task.  So
that's put off as a possibility until after graduation, since
there's more than  enough to try to achieve before then.
Anectdotal accounts are welcome, of course.  Meantime, I'm
looking at Perl/Python for mulching design data to feed various
apps (notably, my algorithms, or to adequately change verilog
files to accommodate limitations in a tool like verilator, as
an example).

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar  4 11:08:34 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:08:34 +0100
Subject: i'm lost in list manipulation
References: <40460bb3$0$28116$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <404653cb$1_1@themost.net>
	<c268rn$1q8l0e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<4046e6d6$0$4677$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<4046e8c1$0$4666$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<7xbrnd54uj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <40475472$0$29947$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> a ?crit dans le message de news:
7xbrnd54uj.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "GrelEns" <grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr> writes:
> > i'm not happy with this code, must be an other shorter alternative, have
you
> > any siggestions on how to build these sets  [[1], [2], [3], [1, 2], [1,
3],
> > [2, 3], [1, 2, 3]] from [1,2,3] ?
>
> def subsets(lst):
>     def subgen(lst):
>         if not lst:
>             yield lst
>             return
>         for s in subsets(lst[1:]):
>             yield s
>             yield [lst[0]] + s
>     return list(subgen([1,2,3]))[1:]  # discard empty subset
>
> print subsets([1,2,3])

sorry, i miss something here probably loosing indentation as my version
contain an infnite recursion,

can you repost it ? thanx

btw it looks like very impressive.




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar  6 10:57:15 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 15:57:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Image width, height.
In-Reply-To: <2004030107172838165%bob@redivicom>
Message-ID: <20040306155715.94143.qmail@web8311.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com> wrote: > On
2004-03-01 06:38:11 -0500, Premshree Pillai 
> <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> said:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Is there a Py module available using which I can
> find
> > the width and height of any image format?
> 
> ANY image format is a tall order, however PIL is
> pretty good at it, and 
> supports a large number of image formats.
> 
> >>> import Image
> >>> Image.open('testorig.jpg').size
> (227, 149)
> 
> Note that even if you don't have a JPEG decoder
> available, PIL bakes in 
> enough support for the format to let you get the
> image dimensions out 
> of the header.  I'd imagine that this is generally
> true with the rest 
> of PIL, too.
> 
> -bob
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Worked like a charm. Thanks! Updated version of
pyAlbum.py at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 13:44:04 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:44:04 -0800
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.15.17.28.39.598227@logilab.com>
	<tyf65d6rkne.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>
	<c3507l$kbb$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfy8q17t06.fsf@lxplus057.cern.ch>
	<c37ipr$db8$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<tyfn06f87xj.fsf@lxplus059.cern.ch>
	<donn-60551B.16462317032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<tyf65d18c2c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <donn-624AB5.10440419032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <tyf65d18c2c.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>,
 Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

> Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> 
> > Speaking of which, Haskell's type system supports type classes
> > like Num (number), where Int and Float are instances of Num
> > that implement its "+" function.
> 
> This is pretty much what you'd do in OCaml too, I believe.
> 
> > I'm probably leaving out a paragraph or two of the interesting
> > parts, but the end result is that 1.5 + 1 works.  Haskell is not
> > weakly typed.
> 
> But the point is that the programmer conrols whether the automatic
> conversion is done or not. In weakly typed languages you get the
> conversion whether you want it or not.

I don't know, the mechanism I alluded to above doesn't
really involve the programmer.

  module Main (main) where

  diff a b | a < b = b - a
           | otherwise = a - b

  main = do
        putStrLn (show (diff 2 5))
        putStrLn (show (diff 2.3 5))

$ runhugs num.hs
3
2.7

Haskell automatically converts between numeric types, to
perform arithmetic including comparisons.

It doesn't just do it any time a value oppears in a context
that requires a specific type - the awk/perl weak typing -
but 1.5 + 1 does work, without any programmer intervention
and without weak typing.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Mar 23 05:50:38 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 02:50:38 -0800
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7n068840d.fsf_-_ at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
> >>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> 
>     Skip> It will probably be a BDFL pronouncement.  After all, that's
>     Skip> why he's the
> 
> Of course it will - still, that didn't stop us from voting before :-).

Ick! Having passed through PEP 308, I just prefer directly agree with Guido's 
decision without any votation at all ;)

 Michele Simionato


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar  6 23:40:06 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:40:06 -0500
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>	<mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org><6Fu2c.2306$G3.18772@localhost>
	<404A9BAB.7030503@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <c2e935$bgh$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote in message
news:404A9BAB.7030503 at stackless.com...
> I will look into PyGame, which does not have a GUI at all,

There is a gui-sort-of-package 'associated' in some sense with PyGame.
Forget name.  Main difference from 'imitate native look and feel' packages
is that one can define own renderer to give quite different look and feel,
as most games do.

tjr






From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Mar 31 02:23:50 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:23:50 +0200
Subject: Creating Charts
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.31.07.23.50.10533@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

I need to create some simple charts with python.
A list contains integers between 0 and mymax.

I want to see how the values are distributed (How
many are 0, how many are mymax, ...). The result should
be a small (200x200) png file.

I searched a bit:
- gnuplot: Too big, too complicated
- matplotlib: Too much gtk binding (I only need a png)
- reportlib: Needs PIL. First try failed (_renderPM missing)

Any hints on how to create charts?
There need not to be a python-binding. I can
call the external application with os.system().

Operating System: Linux 2.4.20

 Thanks,
  Thomas



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Mar 28 07:54:49 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:54:49 +0200
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
	<c46dp1$6be$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc6dd9b.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c46hup$d9d$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Joe Mason wrote:

>>> I think it would be cool for my "AutoText" class (see below, hereby
>>> GPL'd) to be able to tell what subclasses inherit from it and
>>> instantiate objects for all of those subclasses to implement a "AutoAll"
>>> function.. Any ideas?
> 
> Actually, somebody pointed out in the other thread that Python has a
> __subclasses__ function, so AutoAll can just do "for i in
> AutoText.__subclasses__:".

My first reaction was disbelief :-) Now we can change

# add as base whenever you create a new subclass of AutoText
class AutoAll(AutoUrl, AutoEmphasis): 
    pass

to

AutoAll = type("AutoAll", tuple(AutoText.__subclasses__()), {})

(assuming the subclasses are not subclassed themselves).

Do you know what the last dictionary parameter of type() is for? A cursory
glance over the 2.3 library did not bring up a usecase of type() with three
parameters.

Peter



From jon at joncruz.org  Thu Mar  4 01:05:17 2004
From: jon at joncruz.org (Jon A. Cruz)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:05:17 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<tMw1c.58353$um1.34455@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4046C71D.9060008@joncruz.org>

Jorge Rivera wrote:
>>
>> As for me, I would say practically the same things about Java. :-p
>>
> 
> Wow, you are comparing a fairly useless language (Lisp) with a powerful 
> and flexible languange (Java), and would come up with the same arguments 
> as to why it sucks?

Well, I happen to use that "fairly useless" language daily in working 
with Java.

:-)

http://jdee.sunsite.dk/



(Sorry, guys. Couldn't resist)



From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar  7 09:06:29 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:06:29 -0500
Subject: Pushing file name to browser
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403070436290.3289-100000@elvegris.netg.se>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403070436290.3289-100000@elvegris.netg.se>
Message-ID: <404B2C65.2040601@cfl.rr.com>

Thank you very much.
I think that is exactly what I wanted.
I really could not find this info anywhere
Where could I find reference to this information?

Hakan Nilsson wrote:

>On Sat, 6 Mar 2004, pxlpluker wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I what to dynamically create a page that has download links to file
>>stored on disk.
>>
>>the part i don't know how to do (or if its possible) is to a different
>>name appear in the browser DL window.
>>
>>i.e. I want the files stored with a random string but when being DL to
>>have real name show in File Save dialog.
>>
>>in essence i want to push the file name to the browser
>>
>>Fred
>>    
>>
>
>This is not so much a python issue as it is an issue of knowing what the
>browsers do when they get special input.
>But, since I recently did this myself I have the answer handy. ;o)
>
>Most browsers check the name between the last / and the end of the line
>(or "?" if you have extra get-parameters) and put that as default name in
>the file save-dialog. So all you need to do is something like the following:
>
>info = { "filename": "apa.txt", "fileid": "10001" }
>the_url = '<a href="download.py/%(filename)s?id=%(fileid)s">%(filename)s</a>'%info
>
>As far as I can tell you are only interested in the file id, then this
>should work with no problem for you and you can get the id-parameter
>through the standard cgi-object, or however you chose to do.
>The filename (essentially anything you chose to put between the / and the ?)
>will be available through an extra-path-info variable, probably also
>available in the standard cgi-object.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>/Hakan
>
>-
> Hi! I'm a .signature virus!
> Copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!
>
>
>  
>
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From timr at probo.com  Thu Mar 11 01:14:22 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:14:22 -0800
Subject: a desired python editor
References: <mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<m3hdwxj0h3.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <ss00501l7k1890v168f303psghd81t3qi5@4ax.com>

Nick Vargish <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote:
>
>I always come back to (X)Emacs in the end. 
>...
>Sometimes I try out the current crop of editors, but it always seems
>as though I'm just playing. Like I said, I always come back to
>(X)Emacs in the end.

Mmmm...  Powerful is the dark side.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From s4somesh at yahoo.co.in  Wed Mar  3 08:07:15 2004
From: s4somesh at yahoo.co.in (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 05:07:15 -0800
Subject: Python Event in India ..
Message-ID: <5cc5bb23.0403030507.120598f6@posting.google.com>

Am basically from India - Pune.
here is very less (say NO) Python AwareNess ..
so i wanna increase it..
am trying in my own way but for making it in VERY proffesional manner
and on very HIGH level ...its necessary to arrange Python Event here.

shall anyone guide me how it is possible ?
Python Even in INDIA will surely PAY gr8 brains to Python Community
...


somesh


From theller at python.net  Fri Mar  5 13:38:30 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:38:30 +0100
Subject: Windows command-line length limitation (was Re: is perl better?)
References: <mailman.23.1078501562.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<jYmdnd38GpgTJtXdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <eks7xhp5.fsf_-_@python.net>

>> the total string is 6809 characters long.
>
> This is likely far too long for the Windows command line, but perhaps
> 2000 is more sophisticated than I would expect...
>
>> I do not know the allowed character length (I am using windows 2000)
>> but perl just runs the command fine, whereas python results in
>> The following character string is too long:

Just to throw in some real numbers, MSDN knowledge base article 830473
<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;830473>
says:

"""
On computers running Microsoft Windows XP or later, the maximum length
of the string that you can use at the command prompt is 8191
characters. On computers running Microsoft Windows 2000 or Windows NT
4.0, the maximum length of the string that you can use at the command
prompt is 2047 characters.

This limitation applies to the command line, individual environment
variables (such as the PATH variable) that are inherited by other
processes, and all environment variable expansions. If you use Command
Prompt to run batch files, this limitation also applies to batch file
processing.
"""

Read the article to found out more (but not much more).

BTW: The workarounds that the article mentions sound more like the old
MSDOS days than like a modern operating system.
Ridiculous examples:
        # Use shorter names for folders and files.

        # Reduce the depth of folder trees.
        
        # Store files in fewer folders so that fewer folders are
        # required in the PATH environment variable.

Thomas




From cxprotectr at mail3.s2lmail.com  Mon Mar 15 14:28:08 2004
From: cxprotectr at mail3.s2lmail.com (CxProtect)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:28:08 -0500
Subject: Recipient: Have detected a virus () in your mail traffic on
	15-Mar-2004 with an action Deleted.
Message-ID: <E1B2xku-0001gE-Bh@mail.python.org>

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    From: geospack at erols.com
    Subject: Re: Re: Thanks!
        01.  Name: noname (Type: text/plain)
         >> * No virus found * <<
    
        02.  Name: document.pif (Type: application/octet-stream)
         >> * Deleted * <<
         + Neutralized +
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         >> * No virus found * <<
    



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From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar  9 16:37:15 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:37:15 -0000
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>
	<9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <104se8bhc5rm477@corp.supernews.com>

In article <9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA at comcast.com>,
Larry Bates <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:
>Get PIL (Python Imaging Library) if you don't already have it
>
>http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm/
>
>import Image
>pathtogif=r'C:\xxx.gif'   # Replace with your path
>im=Image.open(pathtogif)
>x,y=im.size
>im.close()
			.
			.
			.
It doesn't require all of PIL, though, for those who
have a reason *not* to rely on it; it just takes a couple
of byte-twiddles.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/758 > can
easily be translated into pure Python.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From boole at netcologne.de  Sun Mar 14 07:10:05 2004
From: boole at netcologne.de (george)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:10:05 +0100
Subject: Python/Tkinter - problem with "wm_attributes"
Message-ID: <40544B9D.1000706@netcologne.de>

Greetings to all experts.

I'm running Python 2.3/Pythonwin 1.63 on Windows 98. I would like to 
create a window with Tkinter, that is always on top of the screen.

In Tkinter.py, Line 1375 f., I'm reading:
"On Windows, ... -topmost gets or sets whether this is a topmost window
(displays above all other windows)."

Therefore my simple code is:

#################################
# topmost.pyw
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
root.wm_attributes("-topmost", 1)
root.mainloop()
#################################

Started in IDLE (without the last line), the script runs successful.

Started in Pythonwin or executed from the Windows Explorer, it seems to
run endless, nothing happens, no window appears.

Other settings of attributes (-disabled, -toolwindow) failed in
the same way.

What do I have failed to notice?

Thanks for your help,

george



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Wed Mar 24 09:09:39 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:09:39 +0100
Subject: mxDateTime function DateFromString gives wrong year
Message-ID: <c3s4r2$2bl6t3$1@uni-berlin.de>

This is very nearly a repetition of a post by Peter Hansen from 
2002-07-07 which never got an answer:

 >>> x = mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('Nov 2003')
 >>> x
<DateTime object for '2004-11-20 00:00:00.00' at a61ba0>

Using mx.DateTime Version 2.0.5 for Python 2.3 and ActivePython 2.3.2.

The original posting had the same problem with 'October 29/2000'. This 
isn't corrected either, it still converts to 2004-10-29.

Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From edwin at localhost.localdomain  Thu Mar 18 10:25:27 2004
From: edwin at localhost.localdomain (Edwin Young)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 07:25:27 -0800
Subject: PyGTK: creating a pixbuf from image data
References: <m3vfl89j5a.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.28.1079374809.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3oequ9nyw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
> >>>>> "Edwin" == Edwin Young <edwin at localhost.localdomain> writes:
> 
>     Edwin> Hi,
> 
>     Edwin> I'm writing a fractal-generating program in a mixture of C
>     Edwin> and Python. Python handles all the GUI parts using
>     Edwin> PyGTK. After finishing the calculations, I have a buffer
>     Edwin> containing the RGB data of the image. I can display this
>     Edwin> fine on screen using draw_rgb_image. Now I need to save the
>     Edwin> image data into a file. gtk.gdk.Pixbuf.save() 
> 
> gtk.gdk.Pixbuf does have a save method

Right, the problem is getting the data *into* the pixbuf in the first
place. Basically I have the image in a long string in memory and need
to get that into the Pixbuf somehow. The pixel_array is read-only, so
I can't use that.

I don't think Gustav's idea will work because the loader expects the
*encoded* pixels (+ header, etc) from a jpeg file, and if I already
had a jpeg encoder I could just save the file myself.
 
Thanks,
--
Edwin


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 08:55:42 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:55:42 GMT
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.319.1080108068.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqmvdq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.333.1080132076.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7lllqfkce.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <slrnc6335k.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <du7lllqfkce.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>, Ville Vainio wrote:
>    Andrew> Which is to say, I don't understand how that can work --
>    Andrew> the first definition of foo gets clobbered.
> 
> Yes, the name 'foo' gets clobbered every time, but the decorator
> always returns the *dispatcher* that is capable of dispatching the
> call to the correct definition of 'foo'. The dispatcher preserves the
> references to the callables, so they don't get decreffed out of
> existence.

Except the dispatcher gets clobbered by the second "def foo".  Unless it's held
in a global and looked up by name...

That might be something worth thinking about.  Right now, you can always do this:

class C:
    def foo(self, other):
        ...
    foo2 = multimethod(Matrix, Matrix)(foo)

    def foo(self, other):
        ...
    foo2 = multimethod(Matrix, Vector)(foo)

    foo = foo2
    undef foo2

The decorator syntax is less flexible.  But the whole problem goes away
if the decorators are applied between the creation of the function and
the binding: 

1. make an anonymous function
2. if there are decorators pass it through each in turn, replacing the
function with the return value
3. bind the result to the name

However, that means the name is unavailable inside the decorators.

>    Andrew> You *could* have a global registry that's keyed off
>    Andrew> func_name, as you suggest, but that doesn't work in
>    Andrew> general... what if I later have:
> 
>    Andrew> class C2:
>    Andrew> def foo(self, other):
>    Andrew> ...
>    Andrew> foo = multimethod(Long, String)(foo)
> 
>    Andrew> How is the registry not going to help distinguish between
>    Andrew> the foo methods from C, and the foo methods from C2?

Well, obviously you use the mangled name.  The real problem comes when
you actually do want to throw your multimethod away and use a brand new
foo.

Joe


From theller at python.net  Sat Mar 20 11:10:25 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:10:25 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.5.0 and data_files
References: <87fzc4h036.fsf@u-go.net>
Message-ID: <65czjy8e.fsf@python.net>

Ulrich Goertz <u at g0ertz.de> writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am trying to understand how py2exe 0.5.0 deals with data files. 
> My application tries to access certain data files via sys.path[0]
> (e.g. the file 'menus.def' which lies in the same path as the
> python script (or the .exe which py2exe produces, respectively)
> is accessed via os.path.join(sys.path[0],'menus.def').
>
> Now I have the data files which I need in the data_files list given
> as an argument to the setup method, and py2exe does copy them to
> the dist subdirectory all right. However, sys.path[0] is not the 
> path where the program resides, but the path + 'library.zip'.
>
> Is there an elegant way to proceed? Of course, I could remove the
> 'library.zip' to find the actual path, but that somehow does not 
> look like the 'right thing'. I would prefer a solution which works
> for the genuine Python script (not packaged by py2exe) as well as 
> for the .exe.

There is a sample 'hello.py' in the py2exe\samples\simple subdirectory,
which lets you explore the differences between the normal Python script,
and the executable.  I don't have time now - more later.

Thomas




From jcb at iteris.com  Sat Mar 13 02:08:19 2004
From: jcb at iteris.com (MetalOne)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 23:08:19 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
Message-ID: <92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>

I do not like style guidelines either.  If one method can be factually
proven better than another method, then it would make sense to
encourage the better method.  However, when this can't be done, then
the guideline is simply based upon taste or gut instinct or personal
preference.  These all vary from person to person and who is to say
what is correct.

During my schooling I was taught to always place statements on their
own line.
x = 0
y = 0
z = 0

I accepted this completely without thinking about it much.
20 years later I have finally come to realize that if (x,y,z)
represents a point that
x = y = z = 0    or
(x,y,z) = (0,0,0)
is not always so bad.  It conserves lines of code, and being able to
see more lines of code at one time is beneficial.

Some guidelines recommend functions with only a single return point. 
I don't understand why this insanity got started.  At one point it was
recognized that multiple entry points into a function was confusing,
but why did it have to get extrapolated to multiple exit points.  Upon
entry to a function, I sometimes like to verify that everything is ok
before proceeding and if it is not just get out.  Parameters can
validated, resources acquired, or whatever.

At my work we currently have a guideline to always use brackets in
"if" statements.
if
{
    single statement
}
else
{
    single statement
}

Simply on the basis that somebody might forget the braces when adding
another statement to the block.  Has this ever actually happened? 
What about actually testing the code?  It is not too onerous of a
guideline, but it does increase lines of code, which affects the
ability to easily see more code, which affects overall readability in
some cases.

Even the usual guideline of placing statements on separate lines I
think is sometimes a mistake.
if cond: statement
elif cond: statement
else: statement

does not always seem too bad to me where you always just have a single
statement.

Somebody once convinced me that I should always use descriptive
unabreviated variable names.  At first this advice seemed a little
strange to me.  Most code that I had ever encountered abreviated
variable names.  Vowels tend to be left out.  I think it might be a
FORTRAN hold over where variables had to be 6 characters or less or
was it 8.  After a while, I realized people do things like
cnt, instead of count. sz instead of size. tmr instead of timer.  I
finally agree that long unabbreviated names are better.  Years later,
I realize that expressions can be hard to read with long variable
names.  It occurs to me that mathematics always use one character
variables like x,y,z or the greek symbols.  Expressions are just
easier to read.  You can simply comment what 'x' means.  So variable
length is not always so simple to decide upon.

And so it goes.  I guess I am a believer in TIMTOWTDI.

The other thing about guidelines is that once somebody publishes a
book with guidelines, lookout.  Your employer may soon have you
following them all whether you agree with them or not.  Rational Rose
and UML are great examples of this, but that is another story.


From boober95 at rogers.com  Tue Mar  2 08:58:54 2004
From: boober95 at rogers.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:58:54 GMT
Subject: Access 'active directory' from Python on Linux ...
Message-ID: <yq01c.93610$Qg7.16089@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Has anyone had experience in accessing MS 'active directory' from Python 
running on Linux?  I've found a few pointers from searching, but a hint 
might save me some time since setting up the solution might take a bit of 
effort (and then not work)!  From what I can tell you can do it from Python 
running under Windows, but under Linux seems to require 'openldap'.

Bill



From sunilmovva at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 16 12:08:45 2004
From: sunilmovva at hotmail.com (Sunil Movva)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 09:08:45 -0800
Subject: xml.minidom and threads
References: <9106c987.0403120759.6b1df015@posting.google.com>
	<2c60a528.0403150103.1896dbbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9106c987.0403160908.6eafbb3c@posting.google.com>

and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) wrote in message news:<2c60a528.0403150103.1896dbbc at posting.google.com>...
> Sunil Movva <sunilmovva at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > So, I came to suspect if xml.minidom module is thread-safe. 
> 
> No it isn't, but I doubt this is your problem as you don't seem to be
> trying to access the DOM Nodes from multiple threads, let alone
> concurrently. (Is there any good reason why you need to serialise and
> re-parse between each thread?)
> 
> A SAXParseException is generally what it says on the tin, caused by
> faulty syntax in the XML document being parsed. It is conceivable that
> minidom's serialisation code at the second-thread-output stage is
> producing something wrong; we'd have to have a look at the string the
> third thread is trying to parse to find out what.

I was able to fix this problem. It has nothing to do with
thread-safety. The function  xml.dom.minidom.parseString() throws
invalid token exception on trying to parse unicode strings. I forced
my app to use regular strings instead.

Thanks for the response.
-Sunil


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Mar  6 06:38:10 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 06 Mar 2004 13:38:10 +0200
Subject: is perl better?
References: <Law11-F108dhVtRRM4c0002bf6d@hotmail.com>
	<c2ajnq$o48$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.42.1078534951.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7ishiqk7x.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Christian" == Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> writes:

    >> 3. Read win perl source to determine what system calls it is
    >> using and then use Hammond's PyWin extensions to do same from
    >> Python.

    Christian> Well, I never claimed that Python is always better than
    Christian> Perl.  There are cases where Perl is really better than
    Christian> Python.  This might be such a case, and I don't mind.

I don't think this has anything to do with language features. It's a
library issue. Perl achieves the functionality by some system calls,
and I can't see why Python couldn't be made to execute the same system
calls. In fact it would seem trivial, Perl is OSS after all.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Mar  9 18:24:44 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:24:44 -0700
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
References: <E1B0p5G-0004dF-QA@mail.python.org> <404E4F96.8000701@sstar.com>
Message-ID: <035201c4062d$b4f0a020$6401fea9@YODA>

John wrote:
> I have tried PostGreSQL, PyGreSQL, pypgsql, psycopg, and PDO and have
> yet to connect to PostgreSQL 7.4 (.1 in one box, .2 in the other).
>
> With PostGreSQL-3.4 and pypgsql-2.4, using setup.py build results in
> "error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1."
>
> I couldn't install psycopg-1.1.11 because it asks for PgSql header
> files; the only one I can identify is postgres.h.

I've been using pyscopg-1.1.11 with PostgreSQL 7.4 and Python 2.3 on Mandrake
9.2 and have found it to work really well for my needs. To get it to build I
had to do

cp -r postgres-7.4/src/include/catalog /usr/local/pgsql/include/

to get the headers in the right place. Also had to install mxDateTime first.

HTH,
-Dave




From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 15 08:21:56 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:21:56 GMT
Subject: Fatal Python error: Inconsistent interned string state
References: <85c78d18.0403122239.4be5ad04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzca9rf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bmorgan at usa.net (Byron Morgan) writes:

> Anyone run into this before?
> 
> I have a python app that has been reliable, running for days on end
> without a crash. Suddenly, It repeatedly crashes with the following
> message:

Is this reproducable?  What extension modules are you using?

It sounds like you have a memory scribble somewhere, good luck.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  MARVIN:  What a depressingly stupid machine.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 7


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 29 11:57:02 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 11:57:02 -0500
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <mailman.475.1080412762.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40661C14.8365E058@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <c49kgu$r24$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <40661C14.8365E058 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>On the topic of speed, It's surprising to hear that this can be
>possibly rivaled by Perl/Python, considering that even my matlab code
>is about 10x slower than C++.  That's with extensive profiling and
>round-about coding styles to exploit vectorization tricks, and no such
>effort in the C++ code.

The reason people say this is because algorithmic experimentation is
cheap in Python/Perl.  An O(NlogN) algorithm in Python/Perl will lose to
an O(N^2) algorithm in C/C++ with a few elements, but as the data set
grows, the O(NlogN) algorithm will pull ahead.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Mar 30 19:17:42 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:17:42 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <mailman.123.1080662628.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6afpj1-qbb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> What would it take to develop an JavaDoc like repository.

Have you seen what epydoc produces?  Here is an example:

  http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/stdlib/

I have found *by far* that the best docs are for PHP.
It has little to do with the actual official content
(which is fairly complete and well written and almost always
includes an example), but a lot to do with how anybody can
annotate the pages, wiki style.  Here is an example for
the sort function:

  http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.sort.php

Having all those comments is really helpful, and they also
help for updating the documentation.  If there are a lot
of comments against a page then the main body really
needs some more work!

(And for those of you who don't know PHP, you will find
the commentary confusing.  This is because one of the
authors of PHP decided that a list is the same thing
as a dict with numeric keys, and so PHP only has a
dict type that behaves like lists and dicts.  I
won't even mention the tripe equals sign operator!)

Roger





From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  8 16:14:05 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:14:05 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com><miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com><roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com><vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.120.1078757424.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Look, a bug!
>
> With this "feature", you have to scan the entire body of the loop
> looking for a numeric break/continue if you're going to change the
> indentation level, then increment or decrement the number.

Yes, but you can screw up any code when adding loops.

Original:

  while some condition:
      do work
      if condition1:
           continue
      if other condition:
           break
      do work

Add a loop:

  while some condition:
      do work
      for item in stuff:
          if condition1:
               continue
          if other condition:
               break
      do work

Look, a bug!  (The continue and break should be jumping two levels).

Roger




From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 03:29:09 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:29:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to read one byte at a time in Python?
In-Reply-To: <Ruu4c.2784$G3.22819@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040313082909.49602.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, during file input, I think that read(1) should
satisfy my needs.  Although in some cases, I will have
to do read(2) for Chinese characters.

Thanks

--- Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
> 
> > Java has functions that read only one byte at a
> time,
> > do we have such a function in python?
> 
> Skip assumed you meant during user input.  Is that
> what you meant, or 
> did you mean during input from a file or something? 
> read(1) would do 
> that, of course...
> 
> -Peter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From secchi at sssup.it  Tue Mar  2 05:52:49 2004
From: secchi at sssup.it (Angelo Secchi)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:52:49 +0100
Subject: Little explanation
Message-ID: <20040302115249.3d2a897b.secchi@sssup.it>


Hi,
few days ago I had a problem of converting floating from an IBM/370
system to the actual standard. Thanks to a couple of you (Anton and
Howard) I got the code to solve the problem that as expected works fine.
I (a newbie not only with Python but also with programming) tried to
understand the code by myself but finally I decided to bother the list
again for a couple of explanations. First here the code I'm referring
to:

def ibm370tofloat(fourbytes):
    i = struct.unpack('>I',fourbytes)[0]
    sign = [1,-1][bool(i & 0x100000000L)]
    characteristic = ((i >> 24) & 0x7f) - 64
    fraction = (i & 0xffffff)/float(0x1000000L)
    return sign*16**characteristic*fraction   

What is difficult to understand for me is the meaning of the bitwise
operator &. In particular what do expressions like

i & 0x100000000L

(i >> 24) & 0x7f

i & 0xffffff

mean? I know what the objects involved are, I found what 0x stands for
and I read the tutorial about Numerical Literals but it is not very
clear to me the underlying logic of this three lines of code. Can anyone
give me some hints? Also a suggestion where I can find the answers
by myself would be very helpful.

Angelo




--
========================================================
 Angelo Secchi                     PGP Key ID:EA280337
========================================================
  Current Position:
  Graduate Fellow Scuola Superiore S.Anna
  Piazza Martiri della Liberta' 33, Pisa, 56127 Italy
  ph.: +39 050 883365
  email: secchi at sssup.it	www.sssup.it/~secchi/
========================================================



From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Mon Mar  1 17:23:56 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 22:23:56 GMT
Subject: How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of Ruby
	compared to Python?
References: <bf23f78f.0402241443.678bf6c8@posting.google.com>
	<92c59a2c.0402242319.3a5020d8@posting.google.com>
	<du7znb4c414.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<9-udneX41tPP1KLdRVn-jQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc47dvr.30dp.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

A.M. Kuchling <amk at amk.ca>
wrote on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:42:42 -0600:
> On 27 Feb 2004 10:36:39 +0200, 
> 	Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
>> If you are jonesing for a new language to play with, you could as well
>> play with Lisp. At least you would learn something new.
> That's pretty much my reaction to Ruby, too.  It's kind of neat, and if I
> was a Perl person I'd go use Ruby instead of waiting for Perl 6, but it
> isn't so different from the existing scripting languages.

  The primary virtue of Perl used to be that it was the only language
with decent regexp support.  But now everyone has good regexp support.

>  If your interest
> is in learning new ways of programming that turn your head around, you'd
> need to look farther afield (Haskell, ML, Lisp, etc.).

  And I'd second either OCaml or Haskell as good languages if you want
to learn something new, while still being useful for real work.  Pure ML
is rather awful to do real work in, though it can be done if you're
sufficiently functional-minded.  OCaml is a pragmatic compromise of ML
with programming reality.  Haskell, too, is a fairly pragmatic design.
I don't think you should deploy either one where someone else might have
to maintain your code, but they're educational.

  Self would be another good educational language, but its current
implementation is not very portable.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." -Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly


From Olivier.Dormond at epfl.ch  Wed Mar 24 03:53:19 2004
From: Olivier.Dormond at epfl.ch (Olivier Dormond)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 10:53:19 +0200
Subject: mod_python and unicode
Message-ID: <slrnc62mkf.g3.Olivier.Dormond@bsp-124.epfl.ch>

Hi,

 I'm writing a few web tools in python using mod_python which
interact with an LDAP server. The server's answers are UTF-8
encoded and when converting them to latin-1 I get:
RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code objects in restricted execution mode

Removing the restriction on the execution mode from mod_python
doesn't seem possible so I'd like to know if there is any
possibility to decode unicode without loading the codecs module.

Cheers,


                Odie



From theller at python.net  Fri Mar  5 09:53:01 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:53:01 +0100
Subject: again py2exe and codecs
References: <c29pv7$huu$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <eks7z6pe.fsf@python.net>

"Achim Domma" <domma at procoders.net> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I still have problems to get cjkcodecs to work with py2exe. I added
> cjkcodecs to my setup.py like this:
>
> opts = {
>     "py2exe" : {
>         "includes" : ["encodings","encodings.*","cjkcodecs","cjkcodecs.*"],
>         "packages" : ["encodings","cjkcodecs"]
>         }
>     }
>
> After that, my distribution contains _gb2312.pyd and _big5.pyd but at
> runtime I get an unknown encoding error, if I try to use gb2312 or big5. Any
> hint?

cjkcodecs installs a cjkcodecs.pth file which includes this signle line:

  import cjkcodecs.aliases

This import seems to register the cjk codecs - import lines in pth files
are executed (in site.py).

py2exe doesn't pick up any pth file, nor does it execute things in them.
So, you have to insert the 'import cjkcodecs.aliases' line in your
script, and you should be able to build it with this:

 opts = {
     "py2exe" : {
         "packages" : ["encodings","cjkcodecs"]
         }
     }

If this works for you, feel free to write something up for the wiki ;-)

Thomas




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Mar  2 11:39:58 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:39:58 -0600
Subject: Modifying escape sequences in strings
In-Reply-To: <b4a8ffb6.0403020814.283e64d6@posting.google.com>
References: <b4a8ffb6.0403020814.283e64d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040302163958.GD22280@unpythonic.net>

If you want to translate two backslashes into a single backslash,
have to write
    x.replace("\\\\", "\\")
the first is a string of length 2 and the second is a string of length
1.  I don't know why the tutorial doesn't cover this point explicitly
(http://python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION005120000000000000000)
but the language reference does (http://python.org/doc/current/ref/strings.html)
... but there are no sequences of two backslashes in the strings you
were working with.

However, I think that referring to "escaped backslashes" in the string
you read shows that there's some other misunderstanding of what is going
on.  Is your final goal to turn the backslash-n sequences into actual
newlines, or what?  If this is your goal, then you should use the
"string_escape" codec in Python 2.3:
    >>> '\\n'.decode("string_escape")
    '\n'
This took a string containing backslash-n and returned a string
containing a newline character.

Jeff



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  2 11:33:36 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:33:36 -0600
Subject: get notepad on windows to front via tcp-server
References: <5475062c.0403011527.22364bc4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_JSdnVB4DOzBKtnd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

You can use win32process to start the app which
gives you much more control over window size,
environment, etc.:

import win32process

STARTUPINFO=win32process.STARTUPINFO()
STARTUPINFO.dwX=0
STARTUPINFO.dwY=0
STARTUPINFO.dwXSize=800  # Horizontal window size
STARTUPINFO.dwYSize=600  # Vertical window size
commandLine=None
processAttributes=None
threadAttributes=None
bInheritHandles=0
dwCreationFlags=0
newEnvironment=None
currentDirectory="C:\\"

#
# Start the program
#
win32process.CreateProcess('C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\notepad.exe',
                           commandLine,
                           processAttributes,
                           threadAttributes,
                           bInheritHandles,
                           dwCreationFlags,
                           newEnvironment,
                           currentDirectory,
                           STARTUPINFO)



-Larry


"Roger" <rlwm.erens at home.nl> wrote in message
news:5475062c.0403011527.22364bc4 at posting.google.com...
> I've got some MS-windows (XP only?) related questions; hopefully
> someone can give me some advise.
>
> 1)
> Is there some way to make notepad to become the front window when it
> is started from within a tcp-server, using something like
>
> os.system("notepad") or
> os.system("start /w notepad")
>
> Using these methods from a python shell works as expected, but using a
> tcp-client/server construct gives me notepad in the rear.
>
> I read an old thread from '98 about something very much related to
> this, but it used tk which I don't want to. Besides, the thread ended
> undecidedly.
>
> 2)
> From a python shell using
> os.system("write") or
> os.system("start /w write")
> gives me an exit code (zero) before I have closed the application
> wordpad. So os.system() is not waiting as I thought it should.
> Can this be explained?
>
> I have NOTEPAD.EXE in C:\windows and notepad.exe and write.exe in
> C:\windows\system32.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.




From garryknight at gmx.net  Wed Mar 17 20:18:03 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:18:03 +0000
Subject: Specific question about readlines versus xreadlines
References: <c3aq2p$6v6$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <1079572682.11396.0@nnrp-t71-03.news.uk.clara.net>

Erik gave you the correct answer. I just thought I'd point out a few other
things about your code:

In message <c3aq2p$6v6$1 at news01.intel.com>, Pernell Williams wrote:

> #opening the file for reading
> 
> str = 'myShortFile'

Did you know that str() is a Python function that returns the string
representation of an object. To see how it works, run Python interactively
and pass it some objects:
        print str(3)
        print str('hello')
        d = {"one": 1, "two": 2, "three": 3}
        print str(d)
In other words, it's not a good idea to redefine str in your code as it
hides the original function making it unusable. Also...

> file = open(str, 'r')

In Python file() is a function that happens to be an alias of open(). So if
you redefine it like this you can't do:
        f = file('myFile', 'r')
This is OK if you only intend to use open() but redefining existing Python
names is still arguably not good practice.

> while 1:
> 
>   line = file.readline()
> 
>   if line == '':
> 
>     break

The usual way to read lines from a file is like this (assuming you followed
my previous suggestion and stopped using 'file' for the filename:
        for line in f.readlines():
          # process line
This will loop until line == '' so you don't even need the break statement.
And you can make it shorter still:
        for line in f:
          # process line
And you can shorten the whole process further still by combining the open
with the read:
        for line in open(filename):
          # process line

I realise that your example is specifically comparing and contrasting the
readline() function with the xreadlines() function, but I wasn't sure if
you were aware of the different ways of doing the same thing. If you were,
please ignore the above paragraph: hopefully it will prove useful to
newcomers to Python.

>   data = line
> 
>   print data

I'm curious as to why you didn't just do 'print line' rather than assigning
it to 'data' first.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From Bill  Sun Mar 14 02:39:53 2004
From: Bill (Bill)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:39:53 -0800
Subject: List append help
References: <105811aq55rah53@corp.supernews.com> <40540841.8070802@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <1058329gsgeq85f@corp.supernews.com>

Thank you, This was really bugging me. To help me understand, do you know
why the return value was None even though it was added to the list? Also, I
don't like having to type "arg" on every other line neither, so I won't:-)

Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote:
>
>Hello Bill,
>
>> Could someone please tell me why the "hireCrew"
>> method in the following code leaves me with a list that contains "None"?
> > ...
> >         self.myCrew = self.myCrew.append(argHire)
>The return value of list.append is None. However it does add the item to 
>the list. Try:
>self.myCrew.append(argHire)
>
>On a side note, I find this `arg' prefix for an argument irritating :-)
>
>HTH.
>Miki


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar  8 17:32:02 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:32:02 -0600
Subject: Reports
References: <f046efac.0403060043.269a096e@posting.google.com>
	<f046efac.0403070502.736d9a48@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fYWdnRZIb9fDadHdRVn-uw@comcast.com>

HTMLgen has a nice barchart module that I have
used to generate mine.  If you want something
more complex you can use ReportLab/Graphics to
generate charts, but they would be graphics
(not pure HTML) that would be displayed as
.JPG or .PNG files.

-Larry



<ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f046efac.0403070502.736d9a48 at posting.google.com...
> ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote in message
news:<f046efac.0403060043.269a096e at posting.google.com>...
> > Hi
> > I am developing  web application.
> > I have my data stored in a database.Now I want to generate a bar chart
> > & other reports.How can I do it using python?
> Will using something like HTMLGen help??




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Mar 11 09:37:08 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:37:08 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1050uf4afdkrje5@news.supernews.com>


"Cameron Laird" <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:1050odofl644aac at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg at 4ax.com>,
> David MacQuigg  <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
> .
> .
> .
> >going to help me write some code, I won't have time to study it.  My
> >understanding of lambda functions is simply that they are a way to
> >squeeze functions into a tight space:
> >
> >list_of_funcs = [(lambda x: 2**x), (lambda x: 3**x), (lambda x: 4**x)]
> >
> >If you are not concerned about space, simply use normal defs:
> >
> >def f2(x): return 2**x
> >def f3(x): return 3**x
> >def f4(x): return 4**x
> >list_of_funcs = [f2, f3, f4]
> >
> >Is there any other reason in Python to use lambdas?
> .
> .
> .
> In fact, *that*'s not a reason.  Part of tribal lore--a true,
> documented part, by the way--is that Big Cheese Guido depre-
> cates lambdas.  He says they're a mistake, and people shouldn't
> be using 'em.  Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named
> function; it forces the developer to come up with a name for
> the operation, and that's likely to make the code more read-
> able (I'm slightly abbreviating the argument here).

I tend to agree, but for slightly different reasons. Lambdas
are a means of in-lining a function definition. However, they
are so restricted that we constantly get suggestions for
"improving" them by adding more syntax.

Given the restrictions, I see the natural growth path as leading
to a callable instance or a bound method, not a module level
function. Module level functions are a distraction; usually you
want to interface with an object, and module level functions make
that very difficult.

The other reason to avoid lambdas is the DRY principle:
Don't Repeat Yourself. Most uses of lambdas I've seen
lead to duplication in anything larger than a toy program.

What I'd really like is for all of the instructional material
with lambdas to just magically vanish and be replaced by
instructional material that does whatever it is in proper
object oriented fashion, using bound methods for callbacks.
Relegate lambda to a sidebar.

John Roth


> -- 
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net




From peter at semantico.com  Tue Mar 16 04:18:05 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:18:05 +0000
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1079403162.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.17.1079403162.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4056c64d$0$3473$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Premshree Pillai wrote:
>  --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
> Premshree Pillai wrote:
>>>Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
>>>strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily
>>
>>bound
>>
>>>to a particular type.

[deletia]

> The above returns a TypeError in Python, but not in
> PHP, which is weakly typed.
> 
> Get it?

The only two (or perhaps one and a half) languages you used as reference 
were C and C++. Which you said 'Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is 
strongly typed'. What has PHP got to do with it? How does PHP's typing 
have anything to do with Python's?

Typing in C and C++ is different to Python.

int c = 0;
c = "fred";

No can do in C and C++.

c = 0
c = "fred"

No problem in Python.

So just how is Python strongly typed 'like in C, C++, etc'?


From cedgmon at shaw.ca  Wed Mar  3 12:59:05 2004
From: cedgmon at shaw.ca (Craig Edgmon)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:59:05 -0800
Subject: MySQLdb Module for ActiveState Python 2.3
Message-ID: <1078336745.6666.10.camel@shrek>

I am running ActiveState Python-2.3 and I am told that it does not have
the module. I am directed to SourceForge, it wants to install in
python1.5 on my Fedora environment. I get weird errors after that about
a difference between the module and the version of python. Does anyone
have an idea about how I can get this connection to work?




From mh at pixar.com  Wed Mar 17 18:34:24 2004
From: mh at pixar.com (Mark Harrison)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:24 GMT
Subject: how to "source" a file?
Message-ID: <4g56c.11369$MC6.9352@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

I have a set of configuration files that are expressed in
python.  Users can set up triggers and callbacks as
python function calls.

Some of these functions have become shared between several
products, so I would like to factor out these functions into
a separate file.

Can someone give me a clue as to the best way to proceed?
I'm trying various combinations of import, but with no success.

Can someone loan me a clue?

Many TIA,
Mark

-- 
Mark Harrison
Pixar Animation studios


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 20:26:46 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:26:46 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>


"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list at python.org...
> They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one would
> be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people using spaces if they
> like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able to use tabs if I like. I
> can't see how it should make any difference to Python which you use so
> why not allow for personal preference?

The basic difficulty with tabs is that there are a huge
number of programs "in the wild" that treat tabs
differently. Unless you're completely in control of all
the programs that will ever be used to edit and display
your program, using tabs will cause formatting errors
somewhere, to someone under some circumstance
that you never thought of.

The problems with mixed tabs and spaces are even
worse: you can lose indentation and totally mess up
the program so it won't even compile if you use the
wrong tools on such a program.

This is the basic reason why the current standard for
library modules is 4 space indentation; it's the only
thing that is, for all practical purposes, guaranteed to
work for everyone, with any editor, formatter,
renderer and printer out there.

Python is not Perl. Python's philosophy has never
been to provide several different ways of doing things
just to provide different ways. There needs to be a
demonstrated benefit to the different ways, and tabs
don't make that cut. If you want the space savings,
ziping the file will do much better.

John Roth





From tmohr at s.netic.de  Wed Mar 10 13:39:11 2004
From: tmohr at s.netic.de (Torsten Mohr)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:39:11 +0100
Subject: Interfacing a C++ class, example
Message-ID: <c2nncf$6tb$1@schleim.qwe.de>

Hi,

i wrote a short example using "swig" to interface a small C++
class.  It doesn't yet work, as there is not yet an init function:

tmohr at schleim:~/p/python/swig> python
Python 2.3+ (#1, Sep 23 2003, 23:07:16)
[GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pcpl
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initpcpl)
>>>


Can anybody tell me what i need to add to make the C++ class
available in Python as a data type?


Thanks for any hints,
Torsten.


Here are the sources and the Makefile:
MOD = pcpl
PYT = $(MOD).cc


all: $(PYT) pcpl.so


cpl.o: cpl.cc cpl.h
        g++ -o $@ -c $<


$(PYT):
        swig -python -c++ -o $@ -module $(MOD) cpl.h


pcpl.o: wpcpl.cc pcpl.cc cpl.h
        g++ -o $@ -c $< -I/usr/include/python2.3


pcpl.so: pcpl.o cpl.o
        gcc -Bdynamic -shared -o $@ $^



clean:
        -rm -f pcpl.so
        -rm -f pcpl.o
        -rm -f cpl.o
        -rm -f pcpl.cc
        -rm -f pcpl.h
        -rm -f pcpl.py




### cpl.h
#ifndef CPL_H
#define CPL_H 1

class Abc {
        public:
                Abc();
                ~Abc();

                int somefunc(int a);
};

#endif





### cpl.cc
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <iostream>

#include "cpl.h"

using namespace std;


Abc::Abc() {
        cout << "Abc()" << endl;
}

Abc::~Abc() {
        cout << "~Abc()" << endl;
}

int Abc::somefunc(int a) {
        cout << "a is " << a << endl;

        return 42;
}




### wpcpl.cc
#include "cpl.h"
#include "pcpl.cc"





From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 11:54:16 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:54:16 -0800
Subject: tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <Xns94BB74BCA2718rzed@63.223.5.95>
References: <106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<Xns94BB74BCA2718rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <406854B8.5010209@mlug.missouri.edu>


>As long as you are the only one to work on your code, your 
>viewpoint may not cause you any problems. I and others are telling 
>you that tabs can cause problems with some software, and you can 
>rightly avoid using that software as long as you don't share your 
>code. Once that happens, though, things get more complicated.
>  
>
That's what you're saying but what I'm hearing is that using tabs + 
spaces causes problems with some (crappy) software. If I start using an 
editor that only allows uppercase letters is Python going to disallow 
lowercase letters to solve a problem with my editor? I'd hope not. 
Likewise it makes no sense to remove tab indenting because some software 
has a problem with the difference between tabs and spaces.

>One aspect of the tab/spaces issue involves working on other 
>people's code. You like tabs, I like spaces. Supposing that I 
>prefer to show a single level of indention as five spaces (for some 
>reason), what happens when I have to make a change to your code? If 
>I am aware that you use tabs, then I can adjust to it, but how do I 
>become aware? To me, it looks like you're putting five spaces in 
>for each level of indention. The chances are that I won't know 
>otherwise until I've made some changes, saved the file and tried to 
>run it. If some of those changes involve changing an indention 
>level, I may insert spaces before or after your tabs, so now such a 
>change leaves a line with mixed tabs and spaces, but no visible 
>indication of which is where. Now when someone else grabs the code 
>and displays it with tabs set to four spaces instead, what happens? 
>No sympathy there, either, I would bet, but you do see how things 
>like that can happen even using only your tools, don't you?
>
Couldn't you just look at the code and see that it's using tabs or 
spaces as long as it's uniform? How hard is it to tell the difference? 
Or is it that your editor makes spaces look like tabs so that it's 
difficult to tell? I can see how it could be a problem. I just can't see 
how making tabs not work will fix the problem. If anything I'd make it 
so one whitespace character counts as one level of indention.. 
regardless to if your editor shows you the fact. Using multiple spaces 
or tabs or a combination thereof which don't add up correctly to the 
required indention level should just throw an error. That's closer to 
what happens currently and it makes more sense to me than limiting 
indenting to using only spaces. I think the problem will exist as long 
as whitespace is significant but I happen to have grown fond of Python's 
use of whitespace.




From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 30 11:05:53 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:05:53 -0500
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <106iufn2q88rcea@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECEJOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Roth]
> I believe the earliest versions of Python did use the single equal
> sign for comparisons. I don't know why Guido changed it, but
> it might be in order to keep his options open.

It was to stop ambiguity.  This was especially acute at an interactive
shell, where guessing what

>>> x = y

intended often guessed wrong <wink> (it's common to wonder whether two
things are equal at a shell prompt).  After the change, that became obvious:

>>> x = y  # assignment
>>> x == y # equal?
False
>>>




From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Tue Mar  2 18:44:46 2004
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Delm=E9e?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:44:46 +0100
Subject: How to access the Oracle9i?
In-Reply-To: <a48d7271.0403012133.77abd1b8@posting.google.com>
References: <a48d7271.0403012133.77abd1b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40451d36$0$1111$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

cx_Oracle works flawlessly for me (windows & HP-UX)

http://www.computronix.com/utilities.shtml



From N.R.Turner at bradford.ac.uk  Sat Mar 20 16:20:03 2004
From: N.R.Turner at bradford.ac.uk (Neil Turner)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 13:20:03 -0800
Subject: Unicode and rdf
References: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
	<9L6dnSQDVMjVjtLdRVn-jA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <e781645c.0403201320.673e9e93@posting.google.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message 
> Oh dear.   
> 
> Around 2001/2002 I worked on Python code for processing dmoz dumps, but gave
> up because the data was so bad -- some categories included content in
> various Chinese encodings despite the file's claim to be UTF-8.  I
> eventually gave up because debugging a program that fails after running for
> six hours is really, really tedious.

I'm a senior editor at the ODP, so allow me to (attempt to) explain
the situation. Originally the ODP used different character encoding
for different languages - so while most of the directory used
ISO-8859-1 or Windows-1252, Japanese would use Shift_JIS, and so on.
This wasn't ideal, so we started the long road towards moving to
Unicode. Many of the non-English sections were cloned and converted to
Unicode in a testbed area, then the Unicode version was merged back
into the main directory - this merging process took place only a few
weeks ago.

A few weeks back, the entire site was switched over to Unicode - now,
if you enter any non-Unicode characters they will show as ?.
Naturally, with a directory containing over 4 million entries some
non-Unicode characters will be in there, but the aim is to eradicate
these in due course. I'll admit it isn't ideal though.

--
Neil Turner
http://dmoz.org/profiles/totalxsive.html
http://www.neilturner.me.uk/


From hamilcar at never.mind  Wed Mar 31 00:40:34 2004
From: hamilcar at never.mind (Hamilcar Barca)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:40:34 -0700
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040331004033.536$Cl@news.newsreader.com>

In article <Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681 at fed1read04> (Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:36:55
-0800), Mark Hahn wrote:

> A2. People that bitch about top-posting.

A3. People professing to be computer literate -- some claiming to be
programming language designers and wanting to be taken seriously -- who
refuse to understand why top-posting doesn't follow the rules of written
European language.

A4. People who refuse to trim unnecessary quoted material from their
follow-ups.

-- 
"Posting at the top because that's where the cursor happened to
 be is like shitting in your pants because that's where your
 asshole happened to be."
-- Andreas Prilop (c.i.w.a.h)


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 12:08:10 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:08:10 -0800
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<104v8flf6f1bp95@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c2sqva$dp0$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> How much real development (I don't mean archiving) do we do
> today on systems without appropriate tools? Very little. The issue
> isn't trying to develop on systems without appropriate tools, it's
> developers that won't use tools that help them work.

One class of people: end users.

Usually, end users don't need to have an IDE, they just use (not write) 
software without a care in the world.  Occasionally, they need to edit 
something (it happens to everyone at some time), and they need to break 
out a text editor.  Usually this is an INI file, but there are scenarios 
with applications that ship with an interpreter (Freedom Force) that 
allow people to change them.

Really the ultimate question is whether we (computer scientists, 
engineers, or anyone who programs) want to limit programming to those 
with an IDE?  I think doing so is wasteful, and requires people who want 
to do minor editing to deal with learning a new application, just to 
edit some minor sources.

Personally, I find most standard IDEs to be bloated pieces of shit. 
When did it become reasonable to need 100+ megs to edit source code?

  - Josiah


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Mar 30 10:27:36 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 17:27:36 +0200
Subject: OT: FTP sync program?
References: <c493c0$a6i$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <wz4qs6bbiv.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> (MT) wrote:

MT> Hello All,
MT> I'm looking for a *free* program to synchronize files over ftp (like rsync).

MT> Any suggestions?

If it;s for synchronizing TO an ftp server then llok at:
http://www.bstpierre.org/Projects/upload.py
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Mar 10 21:48:37 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:48:37 -0300
Subject: [ANN] python-dateutil 0.4
Message-ID: <20040311024837.GA2560@burma.localdomain>

What is it?
-----------
The dateutil module provides powerful extensions to the standard
datetime module, available in Python 2.3+.

Features
--------

* Computing of relative deltas (next month, next year,
  next monday, last week of month, and a lot more);

* Computing of relative deltas between two given
  date and/or datetime objects;

* Computing of dates based on very flexible recurrence rules
  (every month, every week on Thursday and Friday, every
  Friday 13th, and a *LOT* more), using a superset of the
  iCalendar RFC specification. Parsing of RFC strings is
  supported as well.

* Generic parsing of dates in almost any string format;

* Timezone (tzinfo) implementations for tzfile(5) format
  files (/etc/localtime, /usr/share/zoneinfo, etc), TZ
  environment string (in all known formats), iCalendar
  format files, given ranges (with help from relative deltas),
  local machine timezone, fixed offset timezone, and UTC
  timezone.

* Computing of Easter Sunday dates for any given year,
  using Western, Orthodox or Julian algorithms;

* More than 400 test cases.

Changes since 0.3
-----------------
Fixed a parsing bug which affected dates like "Sep.25.2003", as
reported by Andre Wobst and catched by the test cases.

Where to get it?
----------------
https://moin.conectiva.com.br/DateUtil

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 03:39:14 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:39:14 -0000
Subject: MSSQL Help
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347C3@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>I would like to use Python (2.3.3 on Windows 2000 
>"Professional") to access
>a MSSQL Server and list all of the available databases, as well as the
>tables in each database and columns in each table for an 
>automated test tool
>I am designing.  I have used the MSSQL module many times in 
>the past for
>Inserting, Updating, and Selecting data from various 
>databases, but have
>never mined for metadata like this before.  Is it possible 
>and, if so, how?

The simple answer is: query the data dictionary, either via the
INFORMATION_SCHEMA schema:

  SELECT * FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES

  or

  SELECT * FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.COLUMNS WHERE TABLE_NAME = 'blah'

or via the (lower level) sys... views (sysobjects etc.). You can find the
info in the SQL Server help. Then just use the Python module as you would to
query any other table.

If you need more concrete examples, let me know. I have a set of modules
which do this kind of thing. But really, it's quite straightforward.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
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From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  2 14:22:39 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:22:39 +0100
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
References: <ptbvktt7.fsf@python.net>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOECJJEAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <oerfjbpc.fsf@python.net>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Thomas Heller]
>> [I'm currently reading python-list via the gmane nntp interface, I
>> don't know whether there really is a gmane.comp.web.zope.devel
>> newsgroup]
>
> I don't know either, so I'll copy you directly.

It seems to exist, but I don't read it - so this is a good idea.

> [Tim]
[script, writing to sys.stderr and/or sys.stdout]
>>> Under Win98SE, and regardless of whether it writes to stdout or
>>> stderr, it dies when run under pythonw, and tb.txt contains this
>>> after:
>>>
>>> Died when trying to write byte 4097
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "wr.py", line 14, in ?
>>>     console.write('.')
>>> IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>
> [Thomas]
>> I get exactly the same, on Win XP Pro, both for sys.stdout and
>> sys.stderr.
>
> That's good to know!  Thanks.
>
>> ...
>> Since it seems XP shows the same behaviour than win98SE, has the
>> behaviour of Python changed?  Were IOErrors ignored on sys.stdout or
>> sys.stderr in earlier versions?
>
> No, the same program fails the same way here under pythonw 2.2.3 and 2.1.3
> (with s/file/open/ and s/True/1/).  The OP wasn't clear about what "it"
> meant, though (in "it used to work").  I guess it's most likely he meant
> running Zope 2.5 as a service used to work, not that running Zope 2.5 by
> hand from a DOS box with pythonw used to work, but don't know.  It's
> certainly possible that something relevant changed in Zope, and/or in how
> Zope tries to live with Windows services.
>
>> IIRC, /F first proposed that pythonw.exe should create a console to
>> have a place to show tracebacks.  Sounds like a good idea to me.
>
> Some way of having pythonw not drop output into the bit bucket has sounded
> like a good idea to everyone for about a decade now <wink>.

That may be, and the idea sounds even better if pythonw 'crashes' when
the bit bucket is full.

> ideas-ain't-code-ly y'rs  - tim

Sure ;-)

Thomas




From ben at wintersun.org  Tue Mar  2 06:39:25 2004
From: ben at wintersun.org (Ben Caradoc-Davies)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 11:39:25 GMT
Subject: Little explanation
References: <mailman.21.1078224018.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc48sdt.2d2.ben@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:52:49 +0100, Angelo Secchi <secchi at sssup.it> wrote:
> What is difficult to understand for me is the meaning of the bitwise
> operator &. In particular what do expressions like
> i & 0x100000000L
> (i >> 24) & 0x7f
> i & 0xffffff
> mean?

This syntax is taken from directly from the C programming language. Consult
"ANSI C", second edition, by Kernighan and Ritchie, or see the Python Language
Reference:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/bitwise.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/shifting.html

"&" is "bitwise and". ">>" is "bitshift right". Bitwise boolean operators
operate on each bit of the operands, rather than their values as a whole. "&"
allows you to select only those bits which are set in both operands. ">>"
allows you to move your bits around so that you can interpret your bits as a
small integer (selecting a few bits from within a word or longer).

Write the *binary* representation of these numbers and try it yourself. Much
easier than trying to understand it in hexadecimal.

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben at wintersun.org>
http://wintersun.org/
Imprisonment on arrival is the authentic Australian immigration experience.


From rainerd at eldwood.com  Mon Mar  1 00:12:48 2004
From: rainerd at eldwood.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:12:48 GMT
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
Message-ID: <kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01>

Todd7 wrote:
> What makes it better or worse than languages like perl, php, delphi,
> or c++?

I'll focus on the weaknesses of Python instead of the strengths.

1. Computation intense Python programs tend to be slower than optimized
equivalent programs written in languages that compile to native code.

2. Python programs are somewhat difficult to distribute compared to programs
in languages that compile to native code.

3. Some other languages make it easier to detect certain classes of errors
in your code.  With a few exceptions, errors in Python code can only be
found by actually running the code or by checking by hand.

4. Python is only somewhat flexible about allowing you to customize the
language from within the language.  You can define new functions and new
data types, but no new operators, no new control structures, nor any type of
new syntax.  If you need to define a domain-specific language within your
program, Python may not be your best choice.


-- 
Rainer Deyke - rainerd at eldwood.com - http://eldwood.com




From richie_aj at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 14:29:55 2004
From: richie_aj at hotmail.com (Richard A. Jones)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:29:55 -0600
Subject: urllib2 and POST
Message-ID: <c3q3b6$anu$1@newshost.mot.com>

How do you send a POST to a url? I know how to do this with httplib but how
do you do this using urllib2. For example:

import urllib2

url = http://123.8.37.87:4080/somewhere/something
f = urllib2.urlopen(url)


When I attempt this I get HTTP Error 400: HTTP method GET is not supported
by this URL. Am I missing something?




From dale at riverhall.NO-SPAM.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 10:29:59 2004
From: dale at riverhall.NO-SPAM.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 15:29:59 GMT
Subject: Using Oracle on Solaris
Message-ID: <Xns94B49B2EDEE9Fdalestricklandclark@192.168.8.150>

I need to write a tiny little program which makes use of an Oracle database 
on Solaris. Just a single SQL statement. Nice and simple.

Coming from a Windows/SQLServer/ADO background, I'm having a bit of trouble  
finding some of the basics.

Given that I already have Oracle and Python installed on the Solaris box, 
what else do I need?

A little code snippet would be very handy.

Thanks.


From beefjerky at hornet.beefjerky.demon.nl  Fri Mar 12 14:51:53 2004
From: beefjerky at hornet.beefjerky.demon.nl (Jeroen Wenting)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:51:53 +0100
Subject: Simple file line reading
References: <40520BD5.9090006@ecn.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <105451c2bm2dd21@corp.supernews.com>


"Aaron Deskins" <ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:40520BD5.9090006 at ecn.purdue.edu...
> Hello everyone,
>    I'm relatively new to Python and am trying to write some scripts.

me too :) Started last weekend reading seriously

>
> import string
> it = 0
> for line in open("OUTCAR"):
>    it+=1
>    print it
>

f = open("OUTCAR")
print(len(f.readlines()))
f.close()

will print the number of lines in the file (I think :) might have made a
typo or something).


-- 
Jeroen Wenting
jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl





From niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu  Mon Mar 22 09:05:00 2004
From: niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu (niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:05:00 -0500
Subject: static information...
Message-ID: <0403221079.AA1079991245@ws3.cimex.com.cu>

I've been looking for a way of have static variables in a python class and all I
have found is this:

 class A:
            static =[]

            def f(self):
                        A.static = [1,2,3]


That seems to be pretty static since that variable can be used either on the
class (such as A.static) or on an instance (such as A().static).
Now my problem is that every time some create a new instance of this class the
variable static is reset to its original value [] and the real value that it
took is lost. What I want is someplace to store class's information and not
instance's information.
Any idea?




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Mar  5 19:08:53 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:08:53 +0000
Subject: Curiosity question on signatures
Message-ID: <ci4i401t13ho3ht7rtd0gl82dc629qq5bh@4ax.com>

Hi all,

I just noticed the following fact:

>>> def f(arg):
... 	print "Arg is %s." % arg
... 	
>>> f(1)
Arg is 1.
>>> f(arg = 0)
Arg is 0.

Even "worse":

>>> def g(arg1, arg2):
... 	print "Args: %s, %s." % (arg1, arg2)
... 	
>>> g(arg2 = 9, arg1 = None)
Args: None, 9.
>>> 

Does this "feature" of being able to treat positional arguments as
named arguments have any use? Does anybody make any use of it? Is
there any rationale on why it's in the language?

I'm asking this, because if we define equivalence of functions
signatures in the obvious way ("they accept the same calls") then

def f(arg):
    ....

def g(name):
   ....

don't have equivalent signatures because f can be called with (arg =
0) which does not work with g. It looks... wrong (maybe because what I
have in my mind is the mathematical concept of a function where named
arguments do not exist).

This is no big deal of course, just a curiosity.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 21:06:28 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:06:28 -0800
Subject: Inconsistency in Python's Comparisons
References: <mailman.60.1079482851.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4057B2A4.F9EC49DD@alcyone.com>

Dietrich Epp wrote:

> This could cause sorting functions to malfunction.
> 
>  >>> class t(object):
> ...     pass
> ...
>  >>> a = t()
>  >>> b = u'0'
>  >>> c = '1'
>  >>> a < b
> True
>  >>> b < c
> True
>  >>> c < a
> True

Do you have an example of this that doesn't involve comparisons between
different types?  In Python, except for complex numbers, comparisons
between instances of different types is guaranteed to be consistent, but
not necessarily helpful.

If you're doing comparisons, not to mention sorting, between instances
of fundamentally incommensurable types (like instances of a class and
strings), I'd say that's programmer error, although admittedly it is a
little strange that you found a circular situation like that.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Liberty without learning is always in peril; learning without
    liberty is always in vain. -- John F. Kennedy


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 14:53:13 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:53:13 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <40687AC6.5050401@stackless.com>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
	<40687AC6.5050401@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <40687EA9.3040800@stackless.com>

Christian Tismer wrote:

> Robert Brewer wrote:
> 
>> I wrote:
>>
>> I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
>> for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
>> Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
>> other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
>> 25?
>>
>> ...and got replies:
> 
> 
> Here is another one.
> If you believe in statistics, then you might consider
> to build a dictionary of SHA digests, only. The chance
> that you get a hash clash is very, very small, if you use
> the sha 160 bit algorith as in the sha module.

A slight change to the idea which goes rather easily
with standard Python and very small memory, if you have
the disk space:

Phase one opens, say, 16 files for writing.
In a big loop, you calculate the sha key for every
record, and then you form an index from the first 4 bits
of the key. Then you write the record into its file.

Then you have 16 files with no duplicates between them.
You now process every of them using the sha algorithm, again,
and you have no memory problem at all.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From deets_noospaam at web.de  Mon Mar  8 16:09:56 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:09:56 +0100
Subject: dynamic names
References: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>
	<c2gck2$1mu$03$2@news.t-online.com>
	<uZMTAls/K/2R089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <c2inf4$mol$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Mel Wilson wrote:

> tot = tot + eval ("L%s" % L)
> exec is a statement.

Yup - OPs wrong usage of exec confused me on that one. Thanks for pointing
it out.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  1 19:26:25 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:26:25 +1300
Subject: How does Ruby compare to Python?? How good is DESIGN of Ruby
 compared to Python?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc3ob0q.i6n.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <bf23f78f.0402241443.678bf6c8@posting.google.com>
	<c1h1sb$1it26i$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc3ob0q.i6n.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c20kbj$1o38qb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Joe Mason wrote:
> I don't see the distinction.  "normal calling syntax" in ruby involves
> an object, so "unbound function" isn't a meaningful concept.

Which is just what I was trying to say, really. Ruby doesn't
have functions, only methods. I'm not saying one is better
than the other, just pointing out the difference.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From leo at bella.local  Mon Mar 22 06:55:37 2004
From: leo at bella.local (leo)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 22:55:37 +1100
Subject: module for terminal questions?
Message-ID: <m2d675drk6.fsf@bella.local>

hi there

for a light weight commandline tool i want to build in same little
dialog questions like 'Do you want to proceed? [Y/n]' etc.

is there a module avaible what does make that easier then doing it via
raw_input?

thanks, leo


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sat Mar 20 11:04:19 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:04:19 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040320160419.GA4194@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Ed Cogburn]

> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled
> around some and read some programming language websites but I have yet
> to find a language similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.
> [...] Is there such a thing?

What is your real need?  Why do you consider important to compile
something to an executable binary?  The goal is executing a program
written in Python, or Python-like language, isn't it?

If the goal is speed, you might not obtain much by the mere fact of
having a binary, and might be surprised anyway by the bloat of size.
There are avenues, Pyrex is a good example, in which you may write
Python-like code which runs at C speed, if you do proper compromises.

If the goal is obfuscation, you might consider Perl from the start! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Mar  4 21:10:04 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:10:04 -0800
Subject: Unicode & mx.ODBC module
In-Reply-To: <404751e2$0$7055$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>
References: <40466a21$0$7052$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>
	<c26ksc$9c1$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
	<404751e2$0$7055$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>
Message-ID: <4047e9fc$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Chuck Bearden wrote:
> I think I'm still not entirely clear on when Unicode encoding & 
> decoding happen in Python and for what reasons.  In my searching on this
> problem I kept my eye open for a nice, systematic treatment of Unicode
> in Python, but I haven't found anything yet.
It is not really tough, but you need to understand some facts that you
won't want to believe.

1) You are normally (when using str's) dealing with _bytes_, not
    _characters_ in strings.  Just because your system can print them
    doesn't mean someone else's system will print the same thing.

2) Unicode is a coding system for _characters_ and not binary values.
    Especially if you wander into the stranger sections of unicode, a
    single character may take several positions in a unicode string.

3) Deciding if two unicode strings are _the_same_ is a question of
    philosophy, and not just programming.

OK, with those caveats, you can pretend --
     unicode(some_byte_string, encoding) produces a unicode string.
     The byte string has no coding -- it is a sequence of bytes.  The
     coding is how you interpret those bytes to determine the characters
     that the bytes mean.

     Unicode, on the other hand, is a _character_ encoding.  In some
     sense, you should expect the unicode expression "unicode(s, enc)"
     to "mean" the same thing on all different computers that implement
     python.

     It really shouldn't matter what the bytes are in a unicode string,
     just like it shouldn't matter what the characters are in a byte
     string.

Please let me know whether this is:
   A) obvious,
   B) clear,
   C) comprehensible with effort
   D) gibberish

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From user at domain.invalid  Fri Mar 12 00:27:36 2004
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:27:36 +1100
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>

Ellinghaus, Lance wrote:

> I agree that it does not really work as most people think it does, but how
> would you perform the same task as reload() without the reload()? 
> 
> Would this be done by "del sys.modules['modulename']" and then perform an
> 'import'?

Ah, interesting! I've been doing this:

del modulename; import modulename

but it doesn't pick up any recent changes to the 
modulename.py file.

That's a better solution than exiting Python and 
starting it up again. Thanks!



-- 
Steven D'Aprano





From sean_berry at cox.net  Fri Mar 26 20:16:29 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:16:29 -0800
Subject: Python for email?
Message-ID: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>

Is there a good module for sending out email?

For a website that I am working on, I am writing a program that finds out
which presenters have not yet confirmed their scheduled date and sends them
an email to confirm.

Does python have any modules for use with mail programs like sendmail, or
should I just run everything with os.system and os.popen?

Thanks for any help.




From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Wed Mar  3 18:18:56 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 15:18:56 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>

Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote...

> When it comes to dynamic, DB driven sites, PHP is the only way to go. 
> Python is not even close to being suited for this task. PHP claims to be 
> a general-purpose language, but I do not know anyone who uses it for 
> anything other than dynamic Web programming.

Like everyone else who has replied, I seriously question how much
experience you have with the multitude of Python web environments
available. As an objective, point-by-point look at your specific
example of somewhere PHP is strong, here's my reply:

[PS: I still use PHP regularly, albeit only for quick unimportant
hacks that won't exist in 6 months]


- Nearly all the PHP code I have seen (including various large web
sites) fails to handle error conditions, and will run amok given a
down DB server, bad filesystem permissions, or bad inputs. I have had
personal experience, on more than one occasion, of an error condition
in someone else's PHP code causing a large amount of damage to a
dataset.

- The equivalent Python code will almost never do that. Thanks to the
religious throwing of exceptions, well written standard libraries, DB
adaptors, and so on, the worst Python code has a MUCH better chance of
getting stopped in it's tracks just as a fault occurs.

   py> open("/tmp/foo","w").write(123)
   Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only character buffer,
not int


   [22:15:14] [cape:4:dw]$ php4 <<e   
   > <? fwrite(fopen('foo','w'), 123); ?>
   > e
   [22:15:16] [cape:5:dw]$ cat /tmp/foo 
   [22:15:17] [cape:6:dw]$ 

Can you tell me exactly what the PHP fwrite function did when I passed
it an integer? Can you tell me how many PHP programmers test
"(strlen($to_write) == fwrite($fp, $to_write))"?


- In the specific instance of database connectivity, Python is far
superior, in terms of intuitiveness, security, safety, and so on.
Python database APIs are built in a way that protects you by default.

- PHP provides no intuitive default support for many common DB
operations. Compare the following messes:

   py> l = MySQLdb.connect()
   py> c = l.cursor()
   py> user_input = "%t%"
   py> match_count = c.execute("SHOW DATABASES LIKE %s", ( user_input
))
   py> print match_count, "matches:", [ x for x, in c ]
   1 matches: ['test']


   <? $s = mysql_connect(); 
   $user_input = "%t%";
   $query_sql = sprintf("SHOW DATABASES LIKE \"%s\"",
      mysql_real_escape_string($user_input, $s));
   $query = mysql_query($query_sql, $s);
   $matches = array();
   while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($query, MYSQL_NUM)) $matches[]=
$row[0];
   echo sizeof($matches), " matches: ", var_export($matches, true);


Tell me, of these two popular examples of bad code in both languages,
which is the more intuitive to read, which is the more elegant to keep
secure, and which would you prefer to be reading, and modifying in 18
months time? [In this case, which was the quicker to create? The
Python example. The PHP counterpart has a syntax error somewhere, I
care not where.]

How many different ways can you dream up the same functionality in the
PHP example? (mysql_escape_string, <random_db_api>, etc.)

How likely is it that the developer you hire to take over development
of either snippet of code will understand the concept behind it? I
can't even think of another way of doing database query in Python,
without using the low-level interfaces, which is just insane.

We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
obvious choice, and officially endorsed?

How easy is it to improve on both these examples to add proper error
handling? Again, Python wins hands down for elegance, conciseness, and
obviousness.


- Python has a religious following of thousands, many of whom found
freedom through it's restraint, unified path, and downright beauty.
The result is a long tradition of structured, well written code.
Python has roots in academia, and started life with a defined purpose,
and a BDFL who knew what he was doing.

- PHP, "the web designer's ideal first language", started out life as
"a collection of perl scripts" (that says it all really), then ported
to C, then hacked and added to until it was the great swiss army
monolith that it is today. PHP has never had a clear, publically
documented development path, or indeed any form of structure or
organisation, past the menu system of PHP.net

PHP developers tend to have started life using Dreamweaver, happy to
accept the first solution to a problem that comes their way, and care
little about technical merit. Every person (including at the time,
myself) who I know that uses, or used PHP, did so because it allowed
them to make things look beautiful and dynamic very quickly.


- Python gurus, when asked how to make something work, will often
appear nasty and horrible, telling you you're doing entirely the wrong
thing and you should go back to the drawing board. Much like the hot
sting from a smack of a father's hand, this is good, not bad. It is
there to direct and discipline you, and improve the way you think.

- PHP gurus tend to be experienced web developers, they'll be able to
look flash and give you an answer on the spot, but that answer will
only further lead to the demise of any structure your coding ever had.



- Python tends to be slow, but slow compared to what? The laptop I
type this message on has a 2ghz processor. It cost less than ?1000. It
is the cheapest laptop money can buy in the UK. I run Python scripts
on multi-gigabyte datasets on a daily basis on this machine. I have
never considered the scripts to be 'slow'.

- PHP is very light on CPU, memory, and so on. I earn a modest amount
for a 20 year old, even by Northern Ireland standards. I can't see how
I would ever need to resort to PHP because I couldn't afford the
hardware to run a complex Python-based site intended for viewing by
thousands.


Personally, I find the average PHP codebase to be akin to a television
station such as MTV: well presented, streamlined, professional
looking, but in terms of content, nothing but meaningless, mindless
shite. On the other hand, reading certain Python code is more like
reading a beautifully typeset hardback novel: black and white - ugly
to some, but functional, educational, structured, meaningful, etc,
etc.

What interests you more - earning money through thoughtless,
effortlessly produced rant-syntax that no-one will ever want to look
at again, or the daily challenge to produce something that will
perfectly fulfill it's intended function, at the cost of a little
time, a little brainpower, and a little discipline.

I could go on, but I think these points alone are the main reasons I
use Python. At the cost only of speed, it protects me, teaches me,
profits me, and inspires me to continue being the professional geek
that I am. :)


David.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 25 07:42:38 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:42:38 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>
Message-ID: <c3uk3u$57a$04$1@news.t-online.com>

David McNab wrote:

> Now, who's gonna benchmark these n different approaches?

Make that n+1 :-)

<chunks.py>
import itertools

def chunks(s, cl):
    for i in xrange(0, len(s), cl):
        yield s[i:i+cl]

def chunklist(s, cl): # aka divide()
    return [s[i:i+cl] for i in xrange(0, len(s), cl)]

def _chunkiter(item, it, N):
    yield item
    for item in itertools.islice(it, N):
        yield item

def chunksiter(iterable, N):
    """ How would you do that without a helper func?
        Don't hesitate to show me
    """
    N -= 1
    it = iter(iterable)
    for n in it:
        yield _chunkiter(n, it, N)
</chunks.py

$ timeit.py -s"from re import findall" "findall('.{2}', 'aabbccddee')"
100000 loops, best of 3: 9.28 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"from chunks import chunks" "list(chunks('aabbccddee', 2))"
100000 loops, best of 3: 7.7 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"from chunks import chunklist" "chunklist('aabbccddee', 2)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 7.01 usec per loop

And finally the black sheep:

$ timeit.py -s"from chunks import chunksiter" "[''.join(ch) for ch in
chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2)]"
10000 loops, best of 3: 27.4 usec per loop

To me the greatest difference seems that chunks() and chunklist/divide() can
handle arbitrary sequence types while re.findall() is limited to strings.
My attempt to tackle iterables is both slow and errorprone so far (you need
to exhaust every chunk before you can safely advance to the next).

Peter



From a at a.invalid  Mon Mar 29 04:58:19 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:58:19 +0300
Subject: easy verbose in functions
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>
References: <e567c03a.0403290150.727c9f63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c48rvo$2t2$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>

Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've a function like this:
> def myfunction(data, verbose = False):
>    dothis...
>    if verbose: print 'I do this'
>    dothisother
>    if verbose: print 'I do this other'
>    ...
> 
> How can I do to exclude eachtime the `if verbose` statement?

How about defining a function like:

def myprint(arg):
     if verbose:
         print arg

and using that?

--
Timo Virkkala


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Mar  8 23:37:46 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:37:46 +1100
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
In-Reply-To: <c2jgag$68n$2@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <20040306021634.77057.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.46.1078541818.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2d741$m3t$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.80.1078616454.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2jgag$68n$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20040309043746.GC32559@frobozz>

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 08:11:16PM -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >That, and I suspect that reading strings in chunks, rather than 1 byte at a
> >time, would be much faster also.
> 
> Yes and no.  string.find(character) is fast.
> 
> seq = [read_chars.find(i) for i in break_characters]
> min(filter(lambda inp:inp>-1, seq)+[-1])
> 
> May not be quite so fast for large numbers of break characters.

For finding any one of multiple characters, I expect the re module would
work well, with the bonus that it could easily extend to coping with more
complex patterns.

-Andrew.




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Wed Mar 10 01:28:16 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:28:16 +0200
Subject: Okay Heres the problem: in Index
In-Reply-To: <mailman.195.1078881121.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.195.1078881121.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2mck1$4kn$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello,


> 1. The numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, that are in the output of
> the vector.py are the corresponding position of the
> words in the email_message, that I ran against the
> dictionary_index. I want the index of the
> corresponding word in the dictionary. For example: If
> "syntax" was occuring in the dictionary at 500. I want
> the 500 syntax <value> instead of 6 syntax <value>
> that I am getting right now.
When you load the dictionary just remember the line of each "syntax" and 
print it later.

--- *not tested* ---
syntax = {}
lines = {}
for lnum, line in enumerate(open("dictionary.txt")):
     val, syn = line.strip().split(":")
     syntax[syn] = long(val)
     lines[syn] = lnum
---

> 1 index value index value index value index value
> index value
I don't see the problem here.

HTH.
Miki


From droog at orange.gov  Wed Mar 17 22:09:44 2004
From: droog at orange.gov (droog)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:09:44 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9k4i50dnfsi42gdr5rue1vnpq7gfqkanb6@4ax.com>

Thanks for helping, and no this is not a homework assignment
I just like python and wanted to learn it on my own.
droog

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:07:05 GMT, droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:

>I was looking for the simpliest way of doing it. This is what I tried
>to do. 
>
>f = open('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt', 'r')
>counter = 0
>while True:
>	line = f.readline()
>	if len(line) == 0:
>		break
>	if line.find('customer'):
>		counter = counter + 1
>		print 'Found it ' + str(counter)
>
> 
>
>On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:53:48 GMT, droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hello!
>>
>>I have just started learning python and encountered a problem.
>>All I wanted to do, was to open a text file search and count the
>>number of occurances of a single word and print that count.
>>Thanks for help.



From jsbenson at bensonsystems.com  Tue Mar  2 22:10:47 2004
From: jsbenson at bensonsystems.com (John Benson)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:10:47 -0800
Subject: ELF object file analysis tool in Python?
Message-ID: <06c401c400cd$20444fe0$210110ac@jsbwxp3>

I already googled and only turned up some references dating from 2000.
Anybody know of any current Python tool that can open up and dissect
information from an ELF (Executable and Linking Format) object file? I don't
care about machine language stuff, but goodies like what sources were used
in the compile, and what routines are used.





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 15:12:33 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:12:33 -0600
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
Message-ID: <16481.60337.370411.907718@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    John>      class nullFile:
    John>          def write(self, data):
    John>              pass

    John> However, as the above does not present a full Python file object,
    John> it can't go everywhere that say, sys.stdout can go.  

How about:

    class nullFile:
        def _null(self, *args, **kwds):
            pass

        def __getattr__(self, name):
            return self._null

?

Skip



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 11 02:41:42 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:41:42 +0100
Subject: index out of range with slice object
References: <c2nro6$ef7$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<c2p4hl$dk$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c2p57n$cuo$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Uwe Mayer wrote:
> 
>> a class of mine should support the list interface and implements the
>> __len__ and __getitem__ methods.
>> 
>> Now when I ask for an unbounded slice:
>> 
>>>>> len( myObj[:] )
>> 
>> my __getitem__(self, y) method gets called with
>> 
>>     y = slice(0, 2147483647, None)
>> 
>> Now step size is ok, but where does that incredibly large stop index come
>> from? Also I expected the start index rather to be None than zero.
>> The __len__(self) method returns the correct length, which is 728.
>> 
>> Has anybody encountered something like that bevore? Is that natural or am
>> I doing something wrong?
> 
> There seems a transition to be going on, due to extended slices, I
> suppose:
> 
>>>> class Old:
> ...     def __getitem__(self, index):
> ...             return index
> ...
>>>> class New(object):
> ...     def __getitem__(self, index):
> ...             return index
> ...
>>>> New()[:]
> slice(None, None, None)
>>>> Old()[:]
> slice(0, 2147483647, None)
>>>>
> 
> I found only the old style behaviour documented in the reference manual
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/slicings.html:

Ok, read it again:

"The semantics for an extended slicing are as follows. [...] The conversion
of a proper slice is a slice object (see section 3.2) whose start, stop and
step attributes are the values of the expressions given as lower bound,
upper bound and stride, respectively, substituting None for missing
expressions."

> 
> "The lower and upper bound expressions, if present, must evaluate to plain
> integers; defaults are zero and the sys.maxint, respectively."
> 
> So "incredibly large" is in fact sys.maxint, which should be obvious if
> you convert it to hexadecimal:
> 
>>>> hex(2147483647)
> '0x7fffffff'
> 
> Anyway, you can use the indices() method to get the actual boundaries in
> both cases:
> 
>>>> Old()[:].indices(10)
> (0, 10, 1)
>>>> New()[:].indices(10)
> (0, 10, 1)
>>>>
> 
> Peter



From josh+news at nextyme.net  Sun Mar 21 10:38:41 2004
From: josh+news at nextyme.net (Josh Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:38:41 -0600
Subject: Timeout on a UDP Socket
References: <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5rd3f.ije.josh+news@peregrin.nextyme.net>

In article <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f at posting.google.com>, w wrote:
> I'm having problems with this program hanging on the revc(buf).  I was
> trying to figure out a way to allow the socket to timeout.  I'm have
> tried making the socket non-blocking but had on luck.  Being very new
> to Python,  could there be a better way to accomplish this task.  The
> program works very well, but on occassion is will not receive the data
> from the server and hang.


You could use a sigalarm (assuming your OS supports that).  

For an example from the python docs:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node304.html

I've also added some example code to your client example demonstrating this (if 
you'll excuse the intrusion into your code :)  )

-jbs


# Client program

import os.path,signal

from socket import *
from time import *

# Set the socket parameters
#host = "localhost"
host = "10.0.0.20"
port = 21567
buf = 1024
addr = (host,port)


def handler(signum,frame):
	"""This is a handler function called when a SIGALRM is received, 
	it simply raises a string exception"""

	raise "SocketTimeOut"


# Create socket
UDPSock = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_DGRAM)

# Send messages
while(1):
     if not os.path.exists( "user1.inp" ) :
		sleep( 2 )
     else:
		print "opening....."
		print "reading....."
		in_file = open("user1.inp", "r")

		data = in_file.readline()
		#print in_line
		in_file.close()

		if(UDPSock.sendto(data,addr)):
			print "Sending message '",data,"'.....<done>"


		if os.path.exists( "user1.inp" ) :
		   os.remove( "user1.inp" )

		print "Waiting for Response..."

		# Receive messages
		try:
			# setup signal handler
			signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM,handler)
			# 10 seconds is the limit
			signal.alarm(10)
       		        data = UDPSock.recv(buf)
			# shutdown the alarm
			signal.alarm(0)
			print "\nReceived message '", data,"'"
			#output result message from server
			f=open( "user1.out", "w" )
			f.write( data )
			f.close()
		except "SocketTimeOut":
			f=open("user1.out","w")
			f.write("Timed out on receive from "+host+", got no data\n")
			f.close()



# Close socket
UDPSock.close()




From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 04:56:20 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 01:56:20 -0800
Subject: attachment
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am trying to upload a file using <input type="file"....>
I want to know what is the best way to store this uploaded file 
Should I store it in the databse??
Or should I store the entire file on the server??


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar 24 16:50:15 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 08:40:15 +1050
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
	<c3q8jq$aj4$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<956003ae.0403241406.1ba944d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc641q7.gbh.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 24 Mar 2004 14:06:31 -0800, Andy Robinson wrote:
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c3q8jq$aj4$1 at panix3.panix.com>...
>> In article <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b at posting.google.com>,
>> Jesse Noller <jnoller at reference-info.com> wrote:
>> >With 5 threads - I need each of the 5 threads to read 1 line from
>> >the file (but never the same line) and perform the processing.
>> 
>> Bad idea.  Never access the same external resource from multiple
>> threads.
> 
> Unless each line was a URL which needed a test suite running against
> it, or the name of a file needing significant independent processing?

Nope.  If you want multiple threads to *process the line*, that's great;
but only one thread should be *reading the file*.

-- 
 \            "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the |
  `\                            American public."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From klausm0762 at yahoo.de  Wed Mar  3 15:46:24 2004
From: klausm0762 at yahoo.de (Klaus Momberger)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 12:46:24 -0800
Subject: Lua Book
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
	<du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<1049gqe9n762hf6@corp.supernews.com>
	<75a58466.0403021617.7f765581@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <80a8af7d.0403031246.17ad4725@posting.google.com>

ciw42 at hotmail.com (ciw42) wrote in message news:<75a58466.0403021617.7f765581 at posting.google.com>...
...
> Don't get me wrong, I know if I had a good enough reason I could quite
> quicky and reasonably happily start developing in Lua, but it's
> unlikely to ever come close to Python for general purpose coding. 

Did you skip the foreword? They wrote just that. Lua is meant as an extension
language, not as an replacement for standalone scripting languages. It can 
be used standalone, of course, which makes sense if you need speed or size of
the interpreter matters.

I just read the book during a long train-ride and liked it a lot. Terse and 
to the point, and I could even learn something new from it. E.g. I hadn't heard 
of coroutines before. I also liked the meta-classes stuff. 

-klaus


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 01:42:50 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:42:50 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<mailman.6.1080446668.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6cr9n.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.6.1080446668.20120.python-list at python.org>, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> Actually, in Python, it's even easier than that:
> 
>>>> class C(object): pass
> ... 
>>>> class D(C): pass
> ... 
>>>> C.__subclasses__()
> [<class '__main__.D'>]

Cool.  How come this isn't in either the Language Reference or Library
Reference?  I just skimmed through those looking for special
class-related methods the other day, when I first started looking at
prototypes, and didn't notice __subclasses__, and now I can't find it in
the index.

Joe


From peter at semantico.com  Thu Mar 25 05:00:36 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:00:36 +0000
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <tyf8yhphpr9.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.328.1080120716.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekrimtgn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<36wzna6qzur.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
	<tyfd6724fkn.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<bUm8c.123261$Wa.101889@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<tyf8yhphpr9.fsf@lxplus065.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4062adc4$0$21343$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

>>   That is actually a view held by some people and has been attempted on
>>some projects: the programmers do not have access to compilers and deliver
>>their code to someone else when complete.

I seem to recall this, it was a 'zero defect' policy that IBM OZ tried. 
It was one of those PHB development methodologies that assumed that if 
you ran a modern code shop like 'the old days' (of code listings which 
had to be delivered to the punch room to be turned into punch cards that 
were then scheduled to be loaded into the hopper to be compiled so you 
could get a compiler error report two days later - yes thats how we 
actually used to do it!). The assumption was that 'in the old days' the 
code was less buggy thus the methods used must be superiour.

The fault with this was that the amount of code being produced 'in the 
old days' was less, much much less.

>>I think all these projects failed.

Many man years down the drain if I recall, but being IBM they just went 
and tried it all over again.

> Do you have a reference describing such an attempt?

Fraid not, it is folklore for us (ex)IBM mainframe programmers but I do 
recall reading the actual article sometime in the past, oh, 10 years!


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Thu Mar  4 15:12:44 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:12:44 +0000
Subject: tkFileDialog.askopenfilename
In-Reply-To: <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773@posting.google.com>
References: <8a5a6d82.0403041057.30d4c773@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40478DBC.60207@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Sonia Rovner wrote:
> tkFileDialog.askopenfilename only allows you to open an existing file.
>  I want to allow my users to enter a new filename in the dialog box. 
> Can anyone help?

tkFileDialog.saveasfilename could be what you are looking for...

trusty pydoc comes to the rescue...

$ pydoc tkFileDialog

<snip>

FUNCTIONS
     askdirectory(**options)
         Ask for a directory, and return the file name
 

     askopenfile(mode='r', **options)
         Ask for a filename to open, and returned the opened file
 

     askopenfilename(**options)
         Ask for a filename to open
 

     askopenfilenames(**options)
         Ask for multiple filenames to open
 

         Returns a list of filenames or empty list if
         cancel button selected
 

     askopenfiles(mode='r', **options)
         Ask for multiple filenames and return the open file
         objects
 

         returns a list of open file objects or an empty list if
         cancel selected
 

     asksaveasfile(mode='w', **options)
         Ask for a filename to save as, and returned the opened file

     asksaveasfilename(**options)
         Ask for a filename to save as


HTH
Martin



From oussoren at cistron.nl  Thu Mar 25 14:53:32 2004
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:53:32 +0100
Subject: State of Python scripting on Mac OS X?
In-Reply-To: <406225e0@news.nucleus.com>
References: <BC8786FC.F36%franga@shentel.net> <406225e0@news.nucleus.com>
Message-ID: <1843AD50-7E96-11D8-8D1D-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>


On 25-mrt-04, at 1:26, Mathieu Fenniak wrote:

> On 2004-03-24 16:42:04 -0700, Francis Avila <franga at shentel.net> said:
>> So I guess I'm asking if anyone knowledgeable can point me in the 
>> right
>> direction or tell me the current state of Python for AppleScript-ing. 
>>  If
>> there's a project that's building a "complete" OSA scripting component
> for
>> Python, I might be interested in participating.
>
> Python currently supports scripting through OSA very well.  The 
> support is not too well documented and can take a bit of getting used 
> to, though.  The interfaces are not the simplest they could be, but 
> they work very well.
>
> I've written to starter articles ragaring OSA scripting that might be 
> useful:
>  http://stompstompstomp.com/weblog/technical/2003-09-22
>  http://stompstompstomp.com/weblog/technical/2004-02-05
>
> It's hard to find more information on using OSA with Python.  I was 
> able to scrape together enough to get it working, but I've never found 
> a great resource.  But, after the Python interface is figured out, the 
> Script Editor application provides enough insight into individual 
> applications to work.

There has been some development w.r.t. OSA scripting using Python, such 
as http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html.

Ronald




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 17:11:04 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 14:11:04 -0800
Subject: backquote
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403111411.185a6610@posting.google.com>

OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding) wrote in message news:<9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a at posting.google.com>...
> Is `object` (using backquotes) the same as saying str(object)?  Trying
> to understand how backquotes work.  Thanks for your help.

It's the same as using "repr(object)".


From mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 14:14:25 2004
From: mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com (Minti)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 11:14:25 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>

nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa) wrote in message news:<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae at posting.google.com>...
> These posts are like big huge neon signs that say, "I'm IGNORANT."  If
> you hold that 1 language is better than all other languages, then you
> ARE ignorant.  LISP is a parsing language.  It's obviously not made to
> do the same things that C is.  LISP is extremely fast for processing
> data files.
> 
> C in not an end-all be-all of programming languages, even though it is
> quite robust.  For instance, C is great if you are going to develop
> software for 1 platform.  However, if you are developing software for
> multiple platforms, Java is a better choice.
> 
> Really these discussions boil down to the programmer him/herself, who
> is usually the one at fault for poor performance.  I'm not quite sure
> when this happened, but at some point programmers started relying on
> hardware for fast, efficient software and from that point on, the
> quality and emphasis placed on writing efficient programs has
> diminished.  If you want your code to run faster, make it more
> efficient... make it use less resources... and use the right language
> for the job.  Don't try to fit all things under one umbrella because
> that language has not been developed yet.
> 


Quite valid arguments. However I have one question to ask, I am quite
naive with LISP { just couple of weekends ) but I think the OP did
raise some doubts in my mind. I mean to me LISP looks right now to be
just OK. Some people said that with all the () it is difficult to code
in but I think that with proper indentation that is absolutely
ludicurous. However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
if these figures are correct.


Thanks

-- 
ISA

ikaur at acm dot org

Replace "kaur" by "singh"


From http  Sat Mar 27 16:44:14 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 13:44:14 -0800
Subject: Random Number
References: <a4648036.0403271156.787706e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xad226k41.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair) writes:
> I am generating a random number using
> random.randint(1,10000000000)

At least in Python 2.2, 10000000000 is not a valid arg to randint, which
has to take two int (not long) values.  10000000000 won't fit in 32 bits.
I'm not sure about Python 2.3 or 2.4.

> Whats the possibility that the numbers generated will be same when
> generated by 100 users at the same time?

There's two levels where you have to think about that questions:

1) Is the underlying generator biased enough to make such a collision
more likely than pure chance?  That would be a failure of what's
called the "poker test" (Knuth vol. 2) and Python's PRNG is supposed
to be good about that, so you shouldn't get extra (or too few)
collisions that way.

2) What's the likelihood of such a collision if the numbers from the
generator are really random?  Let N be the number of distinct values,
in this case N= approx. 10**10.  Let k be how many numbers you draw,
i.e. in this case k=100.  Let the random numbers be a[1],a[2],...,a[N].
If there's no collision, it means that for every i,j with i,j in 1,2,...,k,
a[i] != a[j].  There are k**2/2 such (unordered) pairs, and for any i,j,
a[i]!=a[j] with probability 1-1/N.  So the chance of all the pairs
being unequal is (1-1/N)**(k**2/2).  That's about exp(-k**2/(2*N)),
or about 1 in 2 million for your parameters.  The case N=365, k=23 is the
famous "birthday paradox".  It says that if you have 23 people in a
room, there's a better-than-even chance that some two of them have the
same birthday.  In general, if you have a set of random numbers with N
possible values, you can expect to see a collision after seeing
O(sqrt(N)) numbers.  Those collisions are called "birthday collisions"
after the birthday paradox.

> Whats the best method to generate random numbers so that they are most
> likely unique??

If they're random, there is a chance that they will collide, and the
only way to make that less likely is to use a bigger range.


From mis-viruswarn at connect.com.au  Thu Mar 18 03:18:00 2004
From: mis-viruswarn at connect.com.au (mis-viruswarn at connect.com.au)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:18:00 +11660 (EADT)
Subject: RE Do you?
Message-ID: <20040322181505.B5A2F4F9D7@koro.off.connect.com.au>

Your e-mail message with the subject Do you? has an attachment that is not allowed by Connect Internet Solutions



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Mar 24 13:51:34 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:51:34 -0600
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>
Message-ID: <20040324185134.GD11883@unpythonic.net>

I think this is a decent idea, though with only two real platforms
(Unix, win32) it's not hard to implement.  At least, I assume that OSX
has /dev/null...

    if os.name == 'win32':
        nullfilename = 'nul:'
    else:
        nullfilename = '/dev/null
    nullfile = file(nullfilename, "r+b")
note that "nullfile" can be closed just like any other file, which is
likely to lead to problems..  or you could os.close(fileno(nullfile))
too..

Jeff



From trevp at trevp.net  Sun Mar 21 05:50:09 2004
From: trevp at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:50:09 -0800
Subject: ANN: TLS Lite 0.3.0
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040321024920.02fd9c40@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com>


I'm pleased to announce a new release of TLS Lite.  Several requested 
features have been added, and I've cleaned things up a lot.

New features since 0.2.0
-------------------------
  - API docs (courtesy of Epydoc)
  - integrates with Twisted and asyncore
  - supports PyCrypto and GMPY for performance
  - X.509 path validation (requires cryptlib)
  - supports loading PEM private keys in pure Python
  - supports OS-specific Random Number Generators
  - RSA blinding to prevent timing attacks

http://trevp.net/tlslite/

TLS Lite is a free python library that implements SSL v3 and TLS v1.  TLS 
Lite supports non-traditional authentication methods such as SRP, shared 
keys, and cryptoIDs, in addition to X.509 certificates.

Trevor




From frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk  Fri Mar  5 07:42:55 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:42:55 +0100
Subject: Gadfly ????
References: <8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c29sh4$3id$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0403040124.1c6bd929 at posting.google.com...
> Gadfly looks like an interesting database system for python. I am
> working on a couple of projects that may benefit from using a database
> (on the other hand, these days - is there really aproblem with using
> dictionaries that are a couple of meg in size and searching through
> those ??).

That you will be reinventing the wheel - databases are good at dealing with
storing stuff and ordering/querying for it in many different ways you did
not think you would need when starting out.

You could even say that an SQL database can be an interface to the data
produced by you application - if you need to stick a Report in a MS-Word
document or Spreadsheet f.ex..

>
> One of these projects is a customer feedback database that will be
> installed on our intranet - so I was looking for a pure python
> solution.....

Why "Pure Python"? Check the http://www.python.org/topics/database/ - if
there is a Python DB-API for the database it is practically transparent to
use it.

> I thought Gadfly was a pure python implementation - however when I
> download the package it looks like it's optimised to work with
> kjBuckets and kwParsing.

*Optimised* yes - it will *work* without though.

Gadfly has some other issues: It is a limited SQL language implementation so
f.ex. CHECK and KEY constraints will not work - you have to do the
syncronising of linked tables and parameter checks "by hand" as it were.

PySQLite is the closest to a full SQL implementation of "the simple"
databases - beyond that it is a Server; PostGresSQL f.ex. PySQLite comes
with a rather complete SQL implementation. Being a file-based database there
may be some locking issues preventing simultaneous access to your database
depending on the version of windows you have and the version of PySQLite. It
can be worked around.





From xslt-admin at gnome.org  Wed Mar 24 07:00:23 2004
From: xslt-admin at gnome.org (xslt-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:00:23 -0500
Subject: Your message to xslt awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040324120023.9989.10692.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xslt' with the subject

    Re: Delivery Protection

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From python at rcn.com  Wed Mar 17 04:01:32 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 01:01:32 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403170101.1a0a6452@posting.google.com>

[Paul Rubin] 
> This is intended to be less predicable/have fewer correlations than
> the default Mersenne Twister or Wichmann-Hill generators.  Comments
> are appreciated.

Because SHA-1 is a digest function, additional input can be tacked on
without impacting invertibility.  That gives you an opportunity to
incorporate the Mersenne Twister to take advantage of its provably
long period.

Here is a rough cut that extracts a 53 bit float on every pass and
leaves the remaining 107 bits of state hidden:

import struct
import sha
import random

def srandom(seed):
    gen = sha.new(seed)
    digest = gen.digest
    update = gen.update
    random.seed(seed)
    mt = random.random
    unpack = struct.unpack
    tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53
    while 1:
        state = digest()
        randint = unpack('Q', state[:8])[0] >> 11  # grab 53 bits
        yield randint * tofloat
        update(state)
        update(str(mt()))  # twister never hurts, but can help period

r = srandom('the quick brown fox jumped')
for i in xrange(10):
    print r.next() 


Raymond Hettinger


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Mar 28 22:13:09 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:13:09 -0800
Subject: Python as Glue Language
In-Reply-To: <40674ad7$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <40674ad7$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <40679445.60407@prescod.net>

Maurice LING wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
>  From the documentations, it did mention that python is a good glue 
> language. What does it really means by "glue language"? Does it means 
> interfacing between modules of different languages? How does that work? 
> Because it seems that only C is mentioned in the documentations and I'm 
> not quite interested to program in C unless absolutely essential.

Not just C, but also C++, VB and C# (via COM and Python.NET), Java (via 
Jython and JPE), Fortran (via PyFort) and anything else in the world via 
sockets, files, pipes, shared memory, web services, standard Internet 
protocols etc.

Python is good for gluing almost anything to almost anything in large 
part because the Python community makes bridges to every interesting 
technology in the universe.

  Paul Prescod





From shalabh at cafepy.com  Mon Mar  1 17:33:59 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:33:59 -0800
Subject: How to use __getattribute__ to access a class attribute?
In-Reply-To: <4043956c$0$41749$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
References: <40425d1b$0$41761$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>	<mailman.6.1078115418.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<4043956c$0$41749$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <c20dkh$vu4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ruud de Jong wrote:
> Shalabh Chaturvedi schreef:
> 
>> Ruud de Jong wrote:
>>
>>> I have the situation where I need to construct the name
>>> of a static method, and then retrieve the corresponding
>>> function from a class object.
>>
>>
>>
>> If what you're trying to do is get C.a (where C is the class and a is 
>> the name of the staticmethod) but all you have is the class C and a 
>> string mname = "a", then just getattr(C, mname) should work. Generally 
>> this works for any attribute access where you have the attribute name 
>> in another variable.
> 
> 
> Erh, hmm, rrriight... Built-in functions. <blush/>
> Completely forgot about that one -- too focussed
> on trying to do everything with object methods and such.
> I really need to pay more attention to those built-in functions.
> 
> Well, that solves my immediate problem.
> I knew there had to be a simple solution :-)
> 
>>
>> Another way to get the naked function, which also works for 
>> classmethods, is to do C.__dict__['a']. See comments below that 
>> explain what you see.
> 
> 
> Well, that's not true, at least not on my system (XP, Python 2.3.3):
> 
>  >>> class C(object):
>     def a():
>         print "static method a"
>     a = staticmethod(a)
> 
>     
>  >>> C.__dict__['a']
> <staticmethod object at 0x00AADD10>
> 
>  > [snipped]

Sorry, my mistake. In fact it doesn't work for even classmethods. Only 
for functions.

>> To repeat the same experiment, you should call 
>> type(C).__getattribute__(C, 'a'). Note that in this case C *has* its 
>> own __getattribute__ attribute (which is meant for instances of C, not 
>> C itself). 
> 
> 
> C did not have its own __getattribute__ method. It inherited it
> from object.

True. Left out a little bit of information there (for brevity).

> I still find this whole thing slightly ambiguous.
> A class C is itself an object, an instance of 'type',
> just as x = C() leads to x being an instance of class C.
> But x.__getattribute__ and C.__getattribute__ return
> different objects.

Only if you didn't first do x.__getattribute___ = None <wink>. then 
x.__getattribute__ doesn't even return anything. x.__getattribute__ is 
never meant to be called. It is only called on /type/ objects. If you 
want to get an attribute on obj, you call __getattribute__ on type(obj). 
(Well that's what Python does, you can just use getattr(obj, 'attr')).

>> In fact you do this later, and it works. Hmm, at first glance I'd 
>> expect what you do above to return an exception if passed C instead of 
>> an instance of C (like any other well behaved method). I don't know 
>> why that doesn't happen.
> 
> 
> I would also have expected an exception. The strange thing, as I see
> it, is that x.__getattribute__ and type(C).__getattribute__ both give 
> the correct result, but that C.__getattribute__ *almost* gives the
> correct result, but stops at calling the __get__ function on the
> desciptor object.

What C.__getattribute__ doesn't do (maybe it should?) is to check that 
the first argument is an instance of C, or at least an instance of 
object. I'm just guessing here, but if it continues with the default 
mechanism of __getattribute__, it is going to get the staticmethod object.

> 
> Anyway, now that you've kindly reminded me of the existance of getattr,
> I'll not spend any more time trying to understand this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ruud
> 





From noreply at python.org  Wed Mar  3 11:03:46 2004
From: noreply at python.org (noreply at python.org)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:03:46 -0600
Subject: Notify about using the e-mail account.
Message-ID: <rcpanhrstytqjsccjhe@python.org>

Dear  user,  the  management  of Python.org mailing system wants  to let you know  that,

Your e-mail account  has  been temporary disabled because of unauthorized access.

For  more  information see the  attached file.

For security purposes  the attached  file is password protected. Password  is "73024".

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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 27 20:52:42 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:52:42 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1 at 4ax.com...
> Playing with Prothon today, I am fascinated by the idea of eliminating
> classes in Python.  I'm trying to figure out what fundamental benefit
> there is to having classes.  Is all this complexity unecessary?
>
> Here is an example of a Python class with all three types of methods
> (instance, static, and class methods).
>
> # Example from Ch.23, p.381-2 of Learning Python, 2nd ed.
>
> class Multi:
>     numInstances = 0
>     def __init__(self):
>         Multi.numInstances += 1
>     def printNumInstances():
>         print "Number of Instances:", Multi.numInstances
>     printNumInstances = staticmethod(printNumInstances)
>     def cmeth(cls, x):
>         print cls, x
>     cmeth = classmethod(cmeth)
>
> a = Multi(); b = Multi(); c = Multi()
>
> Multi.printNumInstances()
> a.printNumInstances()
>
> Multi.cmeth(5)
> b.cmeth(6)
>
>
> Here is the translation to Prothon.
>
> Multi = Object()
> with Multi:
>     .numInstances = 0
>     def .__init__():              # instance method
>         Multi.numInstances += 1
>     def .printNumInstances():     # static method
>         print "Number of Instances:", Multi.numInstances
>     def .cmeth(x):                # class method
>         print Multi, x
>
> a = Multi(); b = Multi(); c = Multi()
>
> Multi.printNumInstances()
> a.printNumInstances()
>
> Multi.cmeth(5)
> b.cmeth(6)
>
>
> Note the elimination of 'self' in these methods.  This is not just a
> syntactic shortcut (substiting '.' for 'self')  By eliminating this
> explicit passing of the self object, Prothon makes all method forms
> the same and eliminates a lot of complexity.  It's beginning to look
> like the complexity of Python classes is unecessary.

You're mixing two different issues here. The first one I'm going
to address is namespaces. I tend to agree with you, and I've
said it before; most languages would benefit a lot by putting
different kinds of identifiers in lexically distinct namespaces, and
letting the editors take up the slack. We expect modern editors to
colorize keywords, why not let them do some of the dogwork?

> My question for the Python experts is -- What user benefit are we
> missing if we eliminate classes?

Duh? Again, as far as I can tell, classes are a leftover idea from
static typing. However, you should think of a lot of the standard
OO patterns. We have, for example, classes which are never
intended to be instantiated, and classes that are, and classes that
have only one instance (singletons.) In interactive fiction (and I
suspect other application areas) having a class with more than
one instance is rare (but not unheard of.)

In more normal applications, you usually have a large number of
instances of any given class; those instances don't vary in their
behavior so it makes sense to optimize access by distinguishing
between the class and the instance. This is, in fact, what Python
does. It has syntactic support for creating instances of type "class",
complete with builtin support for methods and fancy initialization
options, and a very abbreviated syntax for the much more prevalent
operation of creating instances of type "instance."

I've seen another recent comment to the effect that eliminating
classes would remove a very valuable level of abstraction for
larger programs. The idea is superficially attractive. I'd like to see
examples of very large systems done in a prototype based language
and how they handled the problem, or if it was, indeed, a problem.

I doubt very much if I'm going to find that one extreme or the
other is "correct." It seems to differ by what you want to do
with it.

John Roth
>
> -- Dave
>




From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Thu Mar  4 17:13:35 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 22:13:35 GMT
Subject: Typecasting
References: <mailman.198.1077534828.27104.python-list@python.org>
	<d3be1825.0402230853.48b0d10f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4fage.2elv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Jani Yusef <jani at persian.com>
wrote on 23 Feb 2004 08:53:31 -0800:
> Wow, YAMQFAI (Yet Another Moronic Question From An Indian). What is
> terrible is how GE is now suffering because of these dollar a day
[...]

 <http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/doc/plonk.html>

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." -Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly


From jolsen at mail2world.com  Thu Mar 18 08:46:19 2004
From: jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:46:19 GMT
Subject: dictionary wart
In-Reply-To: <7xr7vquwpo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
	<7xr7vquwpo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LKh6c.11860$g4.239900@news2.nokia.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper Olsen) writes:
> 
>>Does python have a way of defining a dictionary default? 
>>I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?
>>
>>Intuitively I would imagine that
>>
>>a={}
>>a.set_default(my_default)
>>
>>would do this -ie. a[my_new_key] should now return the the default
>>value my_default instead of creating an exception. 
> 
> 
> No, instead of a[my_new_key] use a.get(my_new_key, my_default).
> That does what you want.

Unfortunately not - get() is different, because you can not assign to it.
For instance in a dictionary which is mapping strings to integers (or 
lists), I would like to do

a[my_key]+=5

expressing that with get() would be awkward.

Jesper


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Fri Mar 12 09:06:38 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:06:38 GMT
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:54:56 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:
>>
>>>>> b=[4,5,6]
>>>>> [t*2 for t in b]
>>[8, 10, 12]
>>>>> t
>>6
>>
>>Is this anywhere useful, or more of an artifact?
>
>Scopes are defined by the boundaries of functions, classes and
>modules, not for loops.  This is essential, or you would have to
>declare global variables inside most for loops.

I am not following this argument.  The surprise, specifically,  is
that I don't think of myself as having declared "t" as a variable.  it
is don't magically, as a placeholder and for a very specific purpose.
So I would expect it to go away outside of the " [ " and " ] " by
equal and opposite magic.

I ran into the issue while playing at the prompt.  Running the same
statement I had run previously gave me a different result than before.
Surprising.  Yes I had tested a list comp, in between.  Because I have
been around the language for some time, and have my ear to the ground,
it didn't take me long to understand what was happening. 

Flabbergasted, rather than surprised, might have otherwise been the
reaction.

Art



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar 11 19:13:28 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:13:28 -0600
Subject: 2D List comprehension & replace
Message-ID: <YuSdndB1QM85nczd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

I've gone brain-dead trying to get this to work
using list comprehensions.  I have a list of lists
like the following:

l=[[92.6, 0, 93.5],
   [94.7, 95.6, 95.7],
   [91.2, 92.1, 93.0]]

what I want is a new list
with the zero (0) replaced with None.

I thought I would use the fact that the command:

0 or None

seems to return None.

This procedural code does the trick, but I just
know it can be done with a single list comprehension.

tol=[]
for a in l:
    til=[]
    for v in a:
        if a != 0: til.append(v)
        else:      til.append(None)

    tol.append(til)

l=tol

Thanks in advance.

Larry Bates




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 15 03:25:19 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:25:19 +0100
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com><9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com><104se8bhc5rm477@corp.supernews.com><mailman.13.1079302660.682.python-list@python.org>
	<1079307022.31907.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <c33p9k$t59$1@sea.gmane.org>

Garry Knight wrote:

> > note that you don't need all of PIL to run the above example; it's enough
> > to install Image.py, ImageFile.py, ImagePalette.py, and the
> > *ImagePlugin.py files you need for your application.  the binary
> > extensions are not needed.
>
> Gosh, what a payload!

you can download the files from the net; you don't have to type
them in yourself.

> It might not be the Python way of doing things, but this should work
> just as well:
>
> f = open('x.gif', 'rb')
> gif = f.read(6)         # 'gif89a'
> width = ord(f.read(1)) + 256 * ord(f.read(1))
> depth = ord(f.read(1)) + 256 * ord(f.read(1))
> print "width = %d, depth = %d" % (width, depth)
>
> You could just do f.seek(6) in the second line if you're not worried about
> checking that it's a valid gif file. Of course, this only works with
> single-image files, not with animated gifs.

it gives you the height, not the depth.  and it returns the size of
the logical screen, so it should work with animated GIFs as well.

but it doesn't give you any other information about the file, and it
doesn't work for JPEGs, PNG files, or any of the other 35+ formats
PIL supports.

</F>






From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Mar 25 06:34:10 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:34:10 +1100
Subject: Error handling in smtp
In-Reply-To: <a4648036.0403250322.7d064f78@posting.google.com>
References: <a4648036.0403250322.7d064f78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040325113410.GC29958@frobozz>

On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 03:22:35AM -0800, james blair wrote:
> Hi
> I want to handle all the error that are thrown by smtp
> Do I have to handle each error seperately
> i.e
> except SMTPConnectError:
> except SMTPResponseException: etc

Quick glance at the smtplib module suggests that all of its exceptions
inherit from SMTPException, so "except SMTPException:" should do what you
want.

-Andrew.




From b.scharpf at tesionmail.de  Fri Mar  5 16:25:15 2004
From: b.scharpf at tesionmail.de (Bertram Scharpf)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 21:25:15 GMT
Subject: self for modules
References: <slrnc4gvn4.md9.b.scharpf@homer.bertram-scharpf>
	<mailman.18.1078497539.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc4hs1r.pen.b.scharpf@homer.bertram-scharpf>

Hallo,

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> schrieb:
>
> "Bertram Scharpf" <b.scharpf at tesionmail.de> wrote in message
> news:slrnc4gvn4.md9.b.scharpf at homer.bertram-scharpf...
>>
>> when I want to access the module itself, I can write
>>
>> ----
>> import sys
>> module_self = sys.modules[ __name__]
>> ----
>>
>> Is there a smarter way to do this?
>
> shorter and not implementation specific is
>
>>>> mymod = __import__(__name__)
>>>> mymod
><module '__main__' (built-in)>
>
> I presume this works in imported module also.

Nice idea, indeed. Thank you.

Bertram

-- 
Bertram Scharpf
Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 27 12:06:30 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:06:30 +0000
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:53:45 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>> Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
>> tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
>> a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
>> Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
>> lines, thus destroying the indentation.
>
>Are you objecting specifically to the use of the tab character for 
>indenting, or to the use of white space for statement grouping in 
>general?

I don't know about David, but I know that I specifically dislike the
use of the tab character. The *real* evil happens when people mix tabs
and spaces for indentation, but I always preferred to use spaces
rather than tabs.

Different people have different tab sizes set up in their editors. As
long as you don't mix tabs and spaces, the indentation itself will be
clear - but having a different tab size can break other aspects of
vertical alignment, damaging readability in other ways. It isn't as
bad as the problems that arise when mixing tabs and spaces for
indentation, but IMO it is bad enough.

Reading (and maintaining consistency with) someone elses preferred
indent size isn't really a hassle. Compared with dealing with tab size
issues, IMO it's by far the least hassle. And of course any decent
editor can convert tab keypresses to equivalent numbers of spaces as
you type.


On a separate issue, the Prothon developers seem to have the mistaken
view that commas influence line continuation in Python. They don't -
but parentheses, square brackets and braces do. Though the Prothon
extra-indentation system (which is similar to Haskells offside rule, I
suppose) is an interesting idea.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Sat Mar  6 08:24:13 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:24:13 +0100
Subject: Getting definition list
References: <20040306071202.18241.00000981@mb-m06.aol.com>
Message-ID: <c2cjf3$8bf$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Bluexcell" <bluexcell at aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:20040306071202.18241.00000981 at mb-m06.aol.com...
| ok so i  use import to import a py file into my script.
|
| is there a way to list all the defined function labels that exist in the
| imported file?
|
| ie if  i import a file called test and test has defined functions  called
| myfunction1 my function2  myfunction3 etc    but i dont know  them,  is
there a
| method to list all the function labels in test and print them  as a
listing
|
| test.mfunction1
| test.myfunction2
| test.myfunction3
|
| etc.

Roughly (untested) something like the following should get you started:

import some_module
import types
d = some_module.__dict__
for k in d:
    obj = d[k]
    if type(obj) == types.FunctionType:
        print "some_module.%s" % k


HTH,

Vincent Wehren




|
|
|
|




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Mar 25 17:03:49 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:03:49 -0600
Subject: Variable scope in classes
Message-ID: <P6OdnbAHb-yjyv7dRVn-uA@comcast.com>

I'm confused about variable scope in a class
that is derived from a base class framework.

Can someone enlighten me on why bar.__init__
method can't see self.__something variable
in the foo.__init__?

Example:


class foo:
    def __init__(self):
        print self.__something


class bar(foo):
    __something="This is a test"

    def __init__(self):
        foo.__init__(self)


x=bar()

returns the following traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 13, in ?
    x=bar()
  File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 10, in __init__
    foo.__init__()
  File "F:\SYSCON\SMARTROUTE\classjunk.py", line 3, in __init__
    print self.__something
AttributeError: bar instance has no attribute '_foo__something'

Is there some "other" way to do this without passing information
through foo.__init__ argument list?

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar 21 12:48:40 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:48:40 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <k411j1-mv7.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> > You are considering Python .pyc files and Java class files to be
> > the same thing.  They aren't.
>
> They're not 'the same thing'.  They are roughly analogous to one
> another though, wouldn't you say?

No.  I explained it further in the message.

> Huh??  .pyc files are an "implementation detail of the Python
> interpreter"?   Care to expound further?  'Coz that sounds
> pretty nonsensical...

One version of a compliant Python interpretter happens to use
these files, and expose that they exist.  They are generated on
demand and automatically updated.  The Python interpretter could
have stored them elsewhere on the filesystem (for example in
a hidden "cache" directory), but for simplicity's sake stored
them alongside the source file.

Go ahead and write protect the directories containing your
Python source (after deleting all .pyc files).  You will find
everything runs just fine without any visible .pyc files.

If you write your own Python interpretter/compiler, it will be
considered compliant if it implements the language correctly.
There is *nothing* about bytecodes, or bytecode compatibility.
For example if you wanted to write your own that ran on top of
Java, you would probably just directly generate class files.
If you wrote one that ran on a Palm device you would do something
else.  It is up to your implementation what it does.  The
only requirement would be working with Python *source* files.

Roger




From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Wed Mar 31 09:00:46 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:00:46 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<nBiac.42307$PY.17419@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
	<4069F371.B4D08F58@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <iaAac.14312$hS3.2067@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

On 30 Mar 2004 22:23:50 GMT, Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
> Robin Munn wrote:
>> 
>
> Well, my bout with Perl took much, much more than an hour.
> It worked, though.  It's probably not enough experience to
> get a good look at the strength of Perl.

Well, here's two cents American, leaving the exchange calculation as an
excercise for the reader.

My first task at my last job was to automate a test that could run from
the Solaris prompt.  Knowing C, I tried to script it in csh, which
proved difficult--redirecting stderr was needlessly convoluted.

Then I read "csh scripting considered evil" and decided to give the
Bourne shell a whirl.  Though the syntax had a learning curve, once I
cracked that nut, the project "Just Worked."

Being a C programmer (embedded systems mostly) it was "Easy" to learn to
use Python as "C without the compile"

It took some playing before I realized the strength of Python as a
prototyping language and stopped trying to write C code in Python.

Of course, NOW I'm trying to learn how NOT to write C++ code in
VisualBasic, so go fig.




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar  8 13:07:20 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:07:20 -0500
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
References: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104pdlunkch6na0@news.supernews.com>


"chads" <lamote1 at netscape.net> wrote in message
news:2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0 at posting.google.com...
> How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
> simple example?

What do you need this for?

John Roth




From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Mar 18 00:50:33 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:50:33 -0000
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>
	<c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <1079589031.945449@yasure>

Quoth Nicola Mingotti <bla at libero.it>:
...
| Even if i can't see it's utility ,

My guess is that the most important benefit is that any list
of Python objects can be sorted.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Wed Mar 31 19:03:57 2004
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:03:57 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <Hupac.8178$Dv2.2499@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<Hupac.8178$Dv2.2499@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200403311903.57465.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>


I second the recommendation of Gtk/Glade/libglade with Python. I've
used it to write large programs and can confirm that gtk2 will also
work on Windows (although I haven't done much other than verify it
works).  I've written some software to further automate the process of
writing GUI programs using Glade/libglade. I'm putting the finishing
touches on an article I will be submitting to Linux Journal describing
the software. It will hopefully be published in the July issue. I will
be releasing the software under the GPL license.

I am almost certain that on Linux/Unix wxWindows is just a layer on
top of gtk so gtk will certainly be a little faster than
wxWindows. I'm not certain what wxWindows runs on top of on MS
Windows.

Dave





From dmq at gain.com  Fri Mar 12 20:08:52 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:08:52 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.282.1079035927.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<40514A48.50907@domain.invalid>
	<09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ln4501mfe70sgrrk25fn0sj80f6cn8vt7@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:42:06 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    >> Reload is not broken, and certainly shouldn't be deprecated at least
>    >> until there's a better solution that won't suffer from reload's one
>    >> problem, IMHO, which is that it surprises some people by its
>    >> behaviour.

I've written a short description of what reload() does to try and help
reduce the confusion.  This is intended for EEs who are new to Python.
Please see
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm

I've also started a new thread to discuss this.  See "Reload()
Confusion"  Comments are welcome.

-- Dave



From csgcsg39 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 12:41:42 2004
From: csgcsg39 at hotmail.com (C GIllespie)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:41:42 -0000
Subject: Nice way of getting items from two lists
Message-ID: <c2njvu$qjq$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I have two equal size lists - list1, list2. Basically, each item in list 1
has a partner in list2. I was wanting to do something like
So if:
list1=['x','y','z']
list2=[1,2,3]

then if I did this 'for loop'
for name, value in list1,list2:
    print name, value

I would get
x,1
y,2
z,3

However, the 'loop' does not work. I could get what I want using
range(len(list1)), but I'm trying to improve my programming skills (fortran
background, so I'm weaning myself off GOTO's etc). So what's a nice way of
doing this?

Thanks

Colin




From thehaas at binary.net  Thu Mar 18 12:41:36 2004
From: thehaas at binary.net (thehaas at binary.net)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:41:36 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
Message-ID: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>

I'm trying to read a config file with Unicode characters via
ConfigParser with Python 2.3 and am having some problems.  The file
looks like:

   [DEFAULT]
   goodProcRef=PYTHON,RSS,Gr??,LDAP

This is how I'm trying to read it:
  config = ConfigParser()
  config.read("work.cfg")
  goodProcRef = config.get(section,"goodprocref").split(",")

goodProcRef now looks like this:
   >>> goodProcRef
   ['PYTHON', 'RSS', 'Gr\xfc\xdf', 'LDAP'] 

Obviously, 'Gr??'!='Gr\xfc\xdf' .  If I change the split to use u","
instead, I get the following:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "work.py", line 165, in parseConfig
    goodProcRef = config.get(section,"goodprocref").split(u",")
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 13: ordinal not in range(128)

Any ideas on how I can get the correct value?


-- 
Mike Hostetler          
thehaas at binary.net 
http://www.binary.net/thehaas 


From ark at acm.org  Fri Mar 19 11:29:19 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:19 GMT
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>
	<405A5EC9.6010503@yahoo.com.au>
	<2eu6c.25407$P45.19517@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <zdF6c.52734$H44.970386@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Carl Banks" <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote in message
news:2eu6c.25407$P45.19517 at fe1.columbus.rr.com...

> > I don't think the argument that one can redefine __eq__
> > to be something other than an equivalence relation is a
> > particularly strong argument. I would call that a bug,
> > even if it is a deliberate bug. If "==" doesn't do
> > equality, then it is an exceedingly bad piece of design.

> You know, it's not hard to imagine some abstract mathematical superset
> of the normal orthogonal math we use everyday, wherein certain numbers
> (or sets or whatever) are not equal to themselves.  In which case it
> would be entirely appropriate for __eq__ to return False if called
> with the same object.  Of course, that's not really the typical case.

I'm pretty sure that IEEE floating point requires NaN to be defined in such
a way that if x is NaN, then x == x must yield False.




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Mar 27 21:17:15 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:17:15 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>

I'm not terribly familiar with the concept of prototypes although I 
believe I understand the basic meaning and I have worked in languages 
which do use prototypes (although not called that).

Aren't there many times when it is usefult to work with classes where 
you do not want an instance to exist? Such as multiple level of 
subclasses where code is kept easily readable by putting it on a the 
appropiate class for that function alone. Often useful when you'll be 
using many similar but not identical objects? I can see how it'd be 
useful to be able to define new methods on an object, or edit the 
methods on an object but I can not see the purpose to removing classes 
altogether. Am I correct in my impression that with prototyping you must 
instantate an object to define it's structure? That would seem wasteful 
and cluttering of the namespace. Also he way your prototypes read appear 
less clear to me than a class definition. I fear that you'd wind up with 
people creating an object.. coding random stuff.. adding a method to 
that  object.. coding more random stuff.. and then adding more to the 
object.



From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Tue Mar 16 07:50:12 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:50:12 +0100
Subject: newbie question: nop statement for try/except
In-Reply-To: <m2n06ht0vi.fsf@bella.local>
References: <m2n06ht0vi.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <4056F804.8060700@hagen-partner.de>

leo wrote:
> hi there
> 
> the "try/[except|finally]" construct seems to need the second part
> "except" resp. "finally" due to syntactical reasons.
> 
> but in some cases i guess i do not need any statement in the second 
> part. but just carrying on without an idented block doesn't work.
> 
> so, is there something a no-operation statement?

pass


> thanks, leo

HTH,
Wolfram



From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 15 12:15:33 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:15:33 -0700
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.18.1079250692.745.python-list@python.org>
	<rhj950ts4fbrbfadp0s5fmp3vn6bhh7ppc@4ax.com>
	<mailman.16.1079351405.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tuob50liqn5mcrbvhu7qpq12dsa9im73un@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:49:58 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>    Dave> Maybe we could somehow switch off the generation of shared objects
>    Dave> for modules in a 'debug' mode.
>
>You'd have to disable the integer free list.  There's also code in
>tupleobject.c to recognize and share the empty tuple.  String interning
>could be disabled as well.  Everybody's ignored the gorilla in the room:
>
>    >>> sys.getrefcount(None)
>    1559

Implementation detail.  ( half wink )

>In general, I don't think that disabling immutable object sharing would be
>worth the effort.  Consider the meaning of module level integers.  In my
>experience they are generally constants and are infrequently changed once
>set.  Probably the only thing worth tracking down during a super reload
>would be function, class and method definitions.

If you reload a module M1, and it has an attribute M1.x, which was
changed from '1' to '2', we want to change also any references that
may have been created with statements like 'x = M1.x', or 'from M1
import *'  If we don't do this, reload() will continue to baffle and
frustrate new users.  Typically, they think they have just one
variable 'x'

It's interesting to see how Ruby handles this problem.
http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython  I'm no expert on
Ruby, but it is my understanding that there *are* no types which are
implicitly immutable (no need for tuples vs lists, etc.).  If you
*want* to make an object (any object) immutable, you do that
explicitly with a freeze() function.

I'm having trouble understanding the benefit of using shared objects
for simple numbers and strings.  Maybe you can save a significant
amount of memory by having all the *system* modules share a common
'None' object, but when a user explicitly says 'M1.x = None', surely
we can afford a few bytes to provide a special None for that
reference.  The benefit is that when you change None to 'something' by
editing and reloading M1, all references that were created via a
reference to M1.x will change automatically.

We should at least have a special 'debug' mode in which the hidden
sharing of objects is disabled for selected modules. You can always
explicitly share an object by simply referencing it, rather than
typing in a fresh copy.

x = "Here is a long string I want to share."
y = x
z = "Here is a long string I want to share."

In any mode, x and y will be the same object.  In debug mode, we
allocate a little extra memory to make z a separate object from x, as
the user apparently intended.

If we do the updates for just certain types of objects, we will have a
non-intuitive set of rules that will be difficult for users to
understand.  I would like to make things really simple and say:
"""
If you have a direct reference to an object in a reloaded module, that
reference will be updated.  If the reference is created by some other
process (e.g. copying a string, or instantiation of a new object based
on a class in the reloaded module) then that reference will not be
updated.  Only references to objects from the old module are updated.
The old objects are then garbage collected.
"""

We may have to pay a price in implementation cost and a little extra
storage to make things simple for the user.

-- Dave



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 12:22:22 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 18:22:22 +0100
Subject: Britney Spears nude
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>

"celebsrus" <sfji.azc at qfiiyaxb.com> writes:

> Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude
> Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude
[...]

I see Britney has branched out from Semiconductor Physics into Python
tutoring...


John


From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Mar  7 23:42:42 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 04:42:42 -0000
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1078720961.66546@yasure>

Quoth David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>:
...
| # Current best Python:
| clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]
|
| This is too much to expect of a non-programmer, even one who
| undestands the methods.  The usability problems are 1) the three
| variations in syntax ( methods, a list comprehension, and what *looks
| like* a join function prefixed by some odd punctuation), and 2) The
| order in which each step is entered at the keyboard.  ( I can show
| this in step-by-step detail if anyone doesn't understand what I mean.)
| 3) Proper placement of parens can be confusing.

I quite agree, except of course like most other followups I don't
necessarily agree that this is current best Python.

Skip's probably right that a procedural style is best for casual
Python users, and maybe for anyone.  It really clears up order of
evaluation, for one thing.

Just for variety, here's how I imagine a Haskell user would
write it (omitting the definition of strip, join and split):

clean line =
	map ((strip '.') . (join ' ') . (split ' ')) (split '|' line)

Still sacrifices readability for the sake of doing it all in one
expression, and is overly abstract as usual, but at least the syntax
is relatively simple.  It avoids the right/left association switching
that you got with your "best" version above - queer thing about classic
OOP languages like Python, that functions associate left with their
primary object, but right with the rest of their parameters, and in
expressions like that it makes me feel a little sea-sick.

Possibly unfamiliar notations above are pretty simple -
   Function composition:  (f . g . h) a = (f (g (h a)))

   Partial application:  (split ' ') b = split ' ' b
   (which makes for a different natural parameter order than Python's)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 11 04:48:35 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:48:35 +0100
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

> Is there something missing you think should be there?  There's no particular
> reason a PEP needs to be continually updated.  In particular, notions of
> good Python style haven't changed a lot over the past ten years.
> 
> Skip
I agree, those are good guidelines, but I don't agree with:

- Don't compare boolean values to True or False using == (bool
   types are new in Python 2.3):

         No:  if greeting == True:
         Yes: if greeting:

What would happened if you do:

 >>> a='test'
 >>> if a.find('foo'):
...    print "foo was found"
...
foo was found

I think you should never do a direct boolean comparison. Instead
one should use a more elaborate boolean expresion like:

 >>> a='test'
 >>> if a.find('foo') >= 0:
...    print "foo was found"
...


You will have problems specially if you come from languages where
values minor than zero are considered to be false. I think the
previous sintax is ambiguous.

Regards,
Josef



From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Tue Mar 30 15:39:40 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 12:39:40 -0800
Subject: PyChecker and stdin
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0403301239.28fb55fb@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to tell PyChecker to "skip" a line of source code?  Or
any other workarounds would also greatly appreciated.

This line:
  s = sys.stdin.read(4)
Causes this PyChecker error:
  IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor


Thanks much for your help.

Olaf


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 12 07:09:19 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:09:19 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1053a5hrsag1nc2@news.supernews.com>

"Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list at python.org...
> How do I force static typing in Python?

By using another language. Try Java.

John Roth
>
> -Premshree Pillai
>
> =====
> -Premshree





From steve at waypath.com  Mon Mar 29 17:53:31 2004
From: steve at waypath.com (Steve @ Waypath)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:53:31 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<2pWdnQuWrvGhE_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
	<donn-959027.13550629032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <5q6dndSDho6ZNPXd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>


"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:donn-959027.13550629032004 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...

> The first one wouldn't work for sure.  Second one works if python
> is in /usr/bin, third one works if python is in some directory in
> PATH and env is in /usr/bin.  Assuming your own shell is bash,
> try "type python" and "type env" to see where those programs are.

I think I found the problem here. I was editing in Windows, saving to a
mounted Linux drive, running in Linux. It looks like some end-of-line chars
I didn't account for. I'm still having defunct trouble, but I'm going to
split this one off into a separate thread, going back a few steps.


> spawnv returns a process ID, if you use os.P_NOWAIT.  It returns
> the process exit status if you use os.P_WAIT.  If you look at the
> code, in os.py, you will see that this second variation is essentially
> implemented by applying waitpid() to the first.

So, if I'm following this correctly, if I use os.P_NOWAIT, I shouldn't have
to apply waitpid(), no? And, then, I shouldn't have a zombie process if I
use P_NOWAIT, either. Am I getting this?

>
>    Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com




From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 17:48:52 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:48:52 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com> <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065@fed1read04>
	<gandreas-29DDCC.09162829032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <5J1ac.64492$cx5.5801@fed1read04>

>  So does "foo.bar = 5" add a "bar" slot to "foo" or does it change bar in
the parent object?

It took me great trouble to learn to use attribute instead of slot to keep
Prothon in sync with Python.  I even had to globally replace "slot" with
"attr" in all my code a week ago, so I'll be replacing your use of slot with
attribute.

"foo.bar = 5" will always add an attribute bar to foo.  You have to say
"parent.bar = 5", or if foo is the current self object, you would say "^bar
= 5".  The caret(^) prefix reads as "super" and replaces the period prefix
when you want atrribute lookup to start at the parent of self instead of at
self.  This was documented yesterday on the website.

I realize that there is not currently any automatic way to change a value
found by inheritance.  I'm open to suggestions.  None of the Prothon
features will be cast in stone until 7/04 so make your suggestions known at
Prothon mailing lists.

"Glenn Andreas" <gandreas at no.reply> wrote in message
news:gandreas-29DDCC.09162829032004 at news.mpls.visi.com...
> In article <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065 at fed1read04>,
>  "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
>
> > > Not quite the same, as with Prothon it looks like it always relates to
> > > the self object, whereas in a `with' clause you can make it relates to
> > > any object you wish.
> >
> > Just to confuse the issue, I'd like to point out that in Prothon, the
> > leading dot does always relate to the self object, but the 'with' clause
> > sets the self object to any object you want at any time.  So both
statements
> > above are true at once.  The concept of changing the self object on the
fly
> > is somewhat bizzare, much like changing the protoype on the fly, which
you
> > can also do.
> >
> Out of curiousity (and on a somewhat related topic), how do you handle
> "class variables" - i.e., variables that exist in the "super" object,
> and should be accessable by all "sub objects"?
>
> Accessing them is straightforward - for "foo.bar" if foo doesn't have
> bar, but it inherits from an object that does have bar, you get that,
> but what about foo.bar on the LHS of an expression?  So does "foo.bar =
> 5" add a "bar" slot to "foo" or does it change bar in the parent object?
>
> Self had a full blown system for variable access & setting, combined
> with its multiple inheritance for some pretty interesting abilities
> (essentially, all "getters" and "setters" were functions, so you could
> have something be a constant by only providing a getter, etc...)
>
> NewtonScript actually had two different assignment operators "=" and
> ":=" which determined how it behaved (though it got complex because it
> sort of had multiple inheritance - everything inherited from _two_
> parents, the "real" parent and a "_proto", which seems strange, but it
> made sense in the runtime of the Newton, but that's a bit off topic).




From news at woody.datatailors.com  Tue Mar  9 06:34:46 2004
From: news at woody.datatailors.com (Peter van Kampen)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:34:46 +0100
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <104q5jpg86q2udf@corp.supernews.com>
	<2004030819064420092%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <slrnc4raul.74g.news@woody.datatailors.com>

In article <2004030819064420092%cs1spw at bathacuk>, Simon Willison wrote:

> experience other people may have with this kind of task. At the moment I'm 
> looking at using smtplib and just cycling through calling smtp.send() once 
> for every address but I'm not confident that that this is a particularly 
> efficient method. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it.

You can try to use BCC's. We send a message to several (I think we settled
for 25) people at once. We only mail a few hundred people at the time (using
php, which uses sendmail) but it's very fast (the mailing is invoked from a
webpage and there seems to be no more than the usual delay which was 'good
enough' to not bother to measure 'real' speed) and seems to work flawlessly.

The drawback is that you cannot test which addresses failed (other than
checking /var/log/mail).

PterK

-- 
Peter van Kampen
pterk -- at -- datatailors.com


From csgcsg39 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 12:36:32 2004
From: csgcsg39 at hotmail.com (C GIllespie)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:36:32 -0000
Subject: Reading from stdin
References: <c2nab0$lr7$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
	<c2nbna$1vp1rv$1@ID-101457.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c2njlt$qcp$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>

> probably both your C- and your python scripts use buffered output. So

> the C-program will not print line-by-line but rather en-block after

> many bytes of output have accumulated.

>

> In your C-program, do this (that's most likely your problem):

>

> printf("%f\n",x); /* print valuable data */

> fflush(stdout); /* make sure it's written to stdout */

Yep, that was the problem.

Thanks

Colin




From vipul_parmar_us at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 02:04:43 2004
From: vipul_parmar_us at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?vipul=20parmar?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:04:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: can anybody tell me how to compile the C code with embedded python.
Message-ID: <20040304070443.99472.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com>

hi,
     i m trying to compile a program called abc.c
having python API used. now i want to compile the c
code and run as a binary. i won't be able to create
binary in linux 7.3. i m having python2.2. 
   plz some one tell me how to link the python code
with c. i have to install anything else other than
python development package  or what? 
  waiting for reply,
                    vipul parmar

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" 
your friends today! Download Messenger Now 
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Mar 18 19:31:51 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:31:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <40596d5b$0$10731$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040319003151.33399.qmail@web8310.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote: >
Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> > 
> > 
> >>So just how is Python strongly typed 'like in C,
> C++, etc'?
> > 
> > 
> > It isn't. It's _more_ strongly typed that C and
> C++ :-)
> > 
> > If you are really interested in the answer, I've
> already explained it
> > to you elsewhere in this thread, and you can
> Google for it.
> > 
> > Happy trolling.
> 
> What I want is Premshree's answer. Because, unless
> you can read his 
> mind, you do not know what he meant when he said
> that. Your 
> interpretation of what he said is only that.
> 
> Come on Premshree, how is Python strongly typed like
> in C, C++ etc?

Mistake! Mistake! I confused a lot of stuff. Sorry.
Python is strong typed. C is _weak typed_

Sorry about the confusion.

-Premshree Pillai
> 
> Examples, not handwaving.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 18:11:37 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:11:37 -0800
Subject: tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <106glq882vcn659@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106glq882vcn659@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4068AD29.6020907@mlug.missouri.edu>


>You're contradicting yourself. In a prior post, you said that if you
>had a crappy editor, then change it. Now you're saying that you
>think you would have to press the space bar or the backspace key
>multiple times, and you're not going to give up that crappy editor
>for one that works properly.
>
An editor is crappy if it inserts anything other than what you type into 
the code. If I press tab and four spaces are inserted that is crap. If I 
press 'A' and 'a' is inserted that is crap. To me, it sounds as if this 
entire issue is caused by crappy editors that think they know better 
than the programmers. If you want a smart alec paper clip telling you 
what to do when you're editing code then feel free to do so but I just 
want raw access to my code.



From ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com  Wed Mar 10 22:17:29 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.stopthespam_rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:17:29 GMT
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dTQ3c.81605$OH4.50630@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5 at 4ax.com...
> Seems like we need a simple way to extend Python syntax that doesn't
> break existing syntax or clash with any other syntax in Python, is
> easy to type, easy to read, and is clearly distinct from the "base"
> syntax.  Seems like we could put the @ symbol to good use in these
> situations.  Examples:
>
> print @(separator = None) x, y, z
>
> @x,y:x*x+y*y    -- anonymous function
>
> @f(x,y)         -- generator function that can accept new arguments
>                    with each call
>
> @x @y @z        -- short for instance variables in a method definition
>
> Each of these examples is debatable, but my point is that there are
> many enhancement requests like this, and some may be worthy of
> inclusion in the core language.  It would be nice if there was a
> consistent way to add stuff like this.  It certainly beats adding ugly
> statements like 'lambda'.
>
> It might even be possible to allow limited extension of the language
> by users, provided the extensions are introduced by the special
> symbol.  This would allow the flexibility of Ruby or Lisp without the
> cost of forking the language into many dialects.
>
> Maybe we should collect a bunch of little enhancements like the above,
> and put them all into one PEP.  Any suggestions?  Pet peeves?  Stuff
> you would like to see, but not worthy of a PEP by itself?
>
> -- Dave
>
Pet peeve: gratuitous inclusion of magic symbols into an otherwise
easy-to-understand language syntax.

-- Paul




From scav at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Mar 11 17:28:18 2004
From: scav at blueyonder.co.uk (Peter Harris)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:28:18 +0000
Subject: How to convert string to list without eval or exec
In-Reply-To: <c2n3ci$nu6$00$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.158.1078818680.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2kt5q$1uonf0$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1078921034.4651.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>
	<c2n3ci$nu6$00$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F54c.237$2s5.183@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Peter Otten wrote:
> DomF wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>I'm not allowed to use eval or exec.
>>>
>>>- write to a file
>>>- load the file as module :-)
>>
>>This made me laugh out loud after reading all the heavy duty parsing
>>options, is that bad?
> 
> 
> It's just like eval and exec in that it allows to execute untrusted code.
> 
> Peter

Would it be safe to use eval but within a namespace with no globals or 
locals? Then the expression could only include literals.

Actually, builtins would be visible too. And you don't want to eval
"[ file('important_file','w') ]" !
But I think there's a way to hide builtins as well, although I forget 
what it is.

Peter Harris


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  1 15:10:24 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:10:24 -0800
Subject: Licensing of wrappers around C/C++ code under more restrictive
	licensing.
References: <7ed8f64d.0402280218.5ff447cf@posting.google.com>
	<du7ishrmqsv.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<dc6f5c99.0402281637.71f8a571@posting.google.com>
	<9tt9h1-h1d.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<dc6f5c99.0402291944.a8a972d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7uhch1-gev.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I am surprised you even went as far as looking at the license for OSE as
> in looking at "bitpim", not sure that what OSE had to offer in the way
> of functionality would even have made it appropriate for what you were
> doing.

I am putting in an XML-RPC over SSL interface to allow the BitPim software
and the cell phone to be on different machines.  OSE was attractive
because of the SOAP support as well.  (I think it would have later
been ruled out due to lack of SSL anyway).

Note section 7 of the Artistic License:

  7.  C or perl subroutines supplied by you and linked into this Package
      shall not be considered part of this Package.

> I would like to make a bit of money from the 14 years of work that I
> have put into all of this. :-)

Very understandable :-)  If only monetizing open source software was
easy!

Roger




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  1 12:07:32 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 12:07:32 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vo8h$n5p$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <c1vqkk$1ui$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Nicolas Fleury  <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Don't Do That.  Do not rely on finalizers for external resources
>> (such as threads).
>
>Why?  Isn't a kind of RAII applied to Python?

What's "RAII"?

>> Note that your understanding of Python's memory management could use some
>> improvement: GC *never* runs on objects containing __del__
>
>Well, I guess you're right.  What I mean is the reasons behind the call 
>to __del__, whatever it is ref-counting or something else.  Wouldn't a 
>class like CancellableThread, with a sub-class implemented cancel method 
>called when the object is not referred in any other thread be useful?

Perhaps, but threading needs references to created threads in order to
implement its functionality.  You might try building your own thread
constructs using ``thread`` directly.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From P at draigBrady.com  Tue Mar 30 04:26:03 2004
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:26:03 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40693D2B.2050603@draigBrady.com>

Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
> 
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.
> 
> Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed to
> me
> 
> GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today

I have to recommend GTK, especially in combination with libglade.
I've a presentation and a couple of sample apps here:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/talks/pygtk

P?draig.


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 16 21:22:31 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:22:31 GMT
Subject: INTRANET zope
References: <c32rlm$akq$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <c34ul1$qid$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
	<c35h6l$n77$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <HDO5c.16589$1g2.7815@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

start with CMF and maybe plone.
www.zope.org

"Andrzej Mleczko" <amleczko at icpnet.pl> wrote in message
news:c35h6l$n77$1 at topaz.icpnet.pl...
> Hmmm... not all. Look at www.zope.com
> I'm searching for something like
http://www.zope.com/Products/Zope4Intranets
> but open source.
>
> U?ytkownik "Mikl?s" <nospam at nowhere.hu> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
> news:c34ul1$qid$1 at namru.matavnet.hu...
> >
> > "Andrzej Mleczko" <amleczko at icpnet.pl> wrote in message
> > news:c32rlm$akq$1 at topaz.icpnet.pl...
> > > Hi
> > > I'm searching for an open-source, free Intranet solutions in Zope.
> > >
> > >
> > This post doesn't make any sense... Almost any "Zope solution" is
> > open-sourced. (You components, right?) And certainly all of them are
> > "Intranet solutions"
> >
> > Pm
> >
> >
>
>




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 14 19:41:31 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:41:31 -0500
Subject: Question about the email package
References: <3T65c.3667$GQ3.1622@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1059v14ofa2tmed@news.supernews.com>


"Adonis" <adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3T65c.3667$GQ3.1622 at newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Is there a way to retrieve the message body using the email package? or is
> the email package just for parsing mime formatted messages? or would I
have
> to parse the information retrieved from poplib myself. I have scanned the
> entire documentation to no avail. googling only gained little.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated.

The final example in the documentation works quite well for taking an
e-mail saved as a file and breaking it into pieces.

John Roth
>
> Adonis
>
>




From selwyn at aotearoa_is_home.nz  Tue Mar 16 00:46:25 2004
From: selwyn at aotearoa_is_home.nz (selwyn)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:46:25 +1300
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
In-Reply-To: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lxw5c.1611$u%1.246726@news02.tsnz.net>

lutz and ascher's learning python is excellent.

pius wrote:
> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
> of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
> programming.
> Is there anybody who can suggest me where to find what i'm searching?
> Thanks a lot.
> pus



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 11 00:13:25 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:13:25 -0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104vg6f87k7gb19@corp.supernews.com>
	<hciv40hf01o3bkbm7ftk2833ofhko8653l@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>

In article <tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
Pierre Rouleau  <prouleau at impathnetworks.com> wrote:
>David MacQuigg wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:28:47 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
><snip>
>
>
>> 
>> I guess this reflects our different backgrounds.  I've been an
>> electronic design engineer for many years.  I never heard of lambda's
>> or lambda calculus until learning Python, and the name still doesn't
>> evoke much meaning for me.  I've never used APL, J, or Perl.  I wonder
>> how many technical professionals who are *not* programmers would know
>> what a lambda is?  I wonder if Python is becoming more a language for
			.
			.
			.
>I was trained as an EE myself and started programming in assembler on 
>microprocessors, then in C , then in C++, reading, reading, reading,....
>
>Just the mere fact that you are talking about lambda shows that you know 
>what it is, as I do now and as people learning Python will know when 
>they use it.  They'll learn, that why they are technical professionals, no?
			.
			.
			.
For more on what lambda means to me, and others, see
<URL: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeFP/Lambda/Ch/00.Intro.html >
or
<URL: http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.07/07.05/LambdaCalculus/ >
or
<URL: http://www.alcyone.com/software/church/ > or ...
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Mar 14 14:51:10 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: import, functions, and threading
References: <c2rkgj$irh$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <359f85cd.0403141151.1546b5d0@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c2rkgj$irh$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> There were some posts recently discussing whether it's poor style to put
> import statements inside functions.  I recently got reminded that there's
> one very good reason to avoid it: Python has an import lock that blocks
> more than one thread from executing import statements.  Putting import
> statements inside functions that might be called in a threaded
> environment is asking for deadlock trouble.

Just saw this on the week Python URL... anyway, an alternative that
should be safer:

somemodule = None

def whatever():
    global somemodule
    if somemodule is None:
        import somemodule

I'm still not sure if it's entirely safe in all cases, but I think it
is...?  Anyway, it allows for lazy loading.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 24 04:18:26 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:18:26 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c3r92e$2b95ta$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9rj260dlq137kq3vr25bt3n813eqgoi40v@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:15:42 +1200, "Greg Ewing (using
news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:

>Paul Rubin wrote:
>> The syntax can be extended, i.e. "def foo() as generator" looks to me
>> to be a lot more explicit than "def foo()" followed by having the
>> compiler search the function body for a yield statement in order
>> to decide if it's a generator.
>
>While I happen to agree that generators ought to be
>created using something other than a plain "def",
>it couldn't be done this way. Generators need to be
>compiled differently from the beginning -- you can't
>turn an ordinary function into a generator by
>wrapping it in anything.

I just assumed the intention was that the word 'generator' would be
special-cased in the 'as' clause - you can do pretty much anything as
long as you spot the need while it's still just syntax.

Beyond that, it is probably possible by using the parser module. Just
a bit of AST hackery really. Though having never actually used that
module, I can't be sure.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 17:19:39 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:19:39 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <0omac.74900$cx5.32735@fed1read04>

> make your posts more readable

Sorry.

I really really try to remember to quote from below. If you go through my
posts you will see that I remember most of the time. The last few days I
have been reponding to four or five mailing lists after months of only
coding and my fingers are worn out.



"Bruno Desthuilliers" <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> wrote in
message news:4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce at news.free.fr...
> Peter Hickman wrote:
> > Gerrit wrote:
> >
> >> only one. I think it is the wrong answer to say that people shouldn't
> >> bitch about top-posting - it _does_ annoy people (including me and
Aahz).
> >
> >
> > Will you please reign in you ego and qualify your statement 'it annoys
> > *SOME* people'.
>
> Well, it seems that it annoys *most* people here. BTW, I was about to do
> the same... (Mark, if you read us : your work seems pretty interesting,
> so do *yourself* a favor and make your posts more readable !-).
>
> > I find all the bitching about top posting to be a
> > greater distraction than top posting itself!
>
> So please stop bitching about people bitching about top-posting.
>
> >> There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they are there
> >> with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
> >> 'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.
> >
> > I find bottom posting to be a real pain as when I look at a new message
> > it defaults to showing me the top of the message and I then have to
> > scroll through pages of quoted posts that I have already read just to
> > read one or two lines stuck at the bottom.
>
> If you have to do so, then the poster didn't get point : only quote
> what's needed.
>
> (snip)
>
> >
> > I have never left a group because of the trolls.
> > I have never left a group because of the noobies.
> > I have left a group because of the constant whining about top posting.
>
> May I suggest you to count how many messages Mark posted here before
> someone kindly suggested that he could help everyone by doing a simple
> thing ? If that's what you call 'constant whining', then you are the
troll.
>
> > People who whine on about 'top posting' are the sort of people who draft
> > 'clean desk' policies. If you want to whine about top posting then start
> > alt.whine.top.posting and have fun.
>
> Apr?s vous, mon cher.
>
> Bruno
>




From ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk  Wed Mar 24 16:03:44 2004
From: ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk (Ray Molacha)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:03:44 GMT
Subject: Simple raster graphics ? How do I ...
References: <MPG.1acbebbe56e964e0989684@news.teleline.es>
	<Zik8c.18923$A_2.995691@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1acc163680ee1d8c989685@news.teleline.es>

Excellent.

Thanks a lot Chris. I'm looking at it right now, and it looks 
great. Just what I was looking for, and a lot more. 


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 03:35:45 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:35:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unicode is driving me nuts!
In-Reply-To: <16466.22306.480990.299621@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20040313083545.50340.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Skip.  You know what, I guess I'll give up
using unicode, as you also mentioned you used to have
headache with it.

I'll probably just read by bytes and check if the byte
is a Chinese character.  If it is, read 2 bytes
instead.  What do you think?  This way, I will
hopefully not to have a lot of unreadable characters.


--- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>     Anthony> str = unicode(raw_str, myencoding)
> 
>     Anthony> This works just fine with a small
> sample Chinese document.
> 
>     Anthony> But when I attempted to run the script
> on the entire corpus, I
>     Anthony> get the typical "incomplete multibyte
> sequence error" or
>     Anthony> "UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec
> can't encode characters in
>     Anthony> position 0-23: ordinal not in
> range(128)"
> 
> Can you craft a small example which demonstrates the
> error but which you
> think is correctly encoded?
> 
>     Anthony> I am at my wit's end, so frustrated at
> handling
>     Anthony> non-ascii texts.
> 
> Unicode creates lots of problems for the
> uninitiated.  I pulled my hair out
> for a long time.  It took me a couple tries to get
> my system to work
> (more-or-less) with Unicode.  It's still got the
> occasional problem.
> 
> Skip
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Mar 13 09:46:43 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 15:46:43 +0100
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <wzd67gold8.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> (BN) wrote:

BN> Dave Brueck wrote:
>> What is it that this script is doing? How is it getting invoked? And if it's
>> being invoked by a non-root user, why should that user be allowed to do
>> something that requires root privileges? Is there any reason why you simply
>> don't run the script as root?

BN> The script is setting the root password. It is running as root, by root as
BN> a daily cron job. It does three things:

BN> 1. Set root password to XXXXXXXXX
BN> 2. Make certain ssh is enabled on the machine, if not enable it.
BN> 3. Email the machine's IP to the admins

BN> Root is the owner of the script... it's perms are 700

BN> Why am I doing this? Because users turn off ssh and change the root
BN> password. Mac OSX allows "administrative" users to do this. This script
BN> undoes their changes.

Why don't you run a server process on a central server machine where you
only have to type in the password when that machine boots. And then run
cron jobs at all the client machines that get the password from the
server. Use ssl connections with client certificates for security.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From steve at waypath.com  Mon Mar 29 14:17:51 2004
From: steve at waypath.com (Steve @ Waypath)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:17:51 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
Message-ID: <QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>

Donn,

Thanks for the reply. I haven't yet implemented a working spawnv call, so
I'm not confident my tests are valid. Here's a sample:

##########
File: test1.py
------------
import os, time
if __name__=='__main__':
 os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'python',['test2.py'])
 for step in range(10):
  print 'test1 checking in'
  time.sleep(1)

##########
File: test2.py
------------
import time
if __name__=='__main__':
 for step in range(10):
  print 'test2 checking in'
  time.sleep(1)

##########
stdout:
# python test.py
test1 checking in
...
test1 checking in
[ 10 iterations of 'test1 checkin in'; none of 'test2 checking in']

###########
While test 1 is running, a ps (in another shell):
# ps x | grep python
11726 pts/1  S   0:00  python test1.py
11727 pts/1  Z   0:00 [python <defunct>]
11729 pts/2  S   0:00 grep python

###########
I see this defunct thing with every spawnv test I try. The defunct process
goes away when the calling process (test1.py, in this case) finishes. Where
am I going wrong here?

Thanks
Steve @ Waypath.com

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:1080539401.173853 at yasure...
> Quoth "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com>:
> ...
> | I've tried every implementation of os.system, os.popen*, os.spawn* , and
> | (os.fork + os.exec*) for which I can find an example or that I can
imagine,
> | but I can't come up with anything that works for me.  os.spawnv() looked
> | very promising, but every process I start with it goes defunct.
>
> Well, you need to fix that, no?  spawnv works for people, and very
> likely it's the perfect thing for your application.  So start with
> a simple Python program that uses spawnv on some ordinary utility,
> like "date" for example, and if you can't get it to work you will
> have a more specific question to pose.
>
> Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Mar 20 17:55:17 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:55:17 -0500
Subject: Reload() Confusion
References: <u4l450hv7isekpk09upvhcpi3b18m3p8a7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <VvMXAls/K7NM089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <u4l450hv7isekpk09upvhcpi3b18m3p8a7 at 4ax.com>,
David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>I'm going to be teaching EEs some basic Python using the first few
>chapters of Learning Python, 2nd ed. by Mark Lutz.  The discussion on
>Reloading Modules starting on page 266 is confusing and I believe
>incorrect.  On page 266 it says that a reload "changes the existing
>module object in place."  That's a little vague, but on page 267 it
>says "every reference to a module object anywhere in your program is
>automatically affected by a reload."
>
>It is my understanding that the reloaded objects become *new* objects
>in memory, available only via a fully-qualified reference to the new
>module.  The old objects remain in memory until the last reference to
>them is gone.

   It seems to me that the module keeps its identity over
the reload:

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import re
>>> id(re)
9940176
>>> reload(re)
<module 're' from 'E:\bin\Python23\lib\re.py'>
>>> id(re)
9940176
>>>

>
>I've re-written the section on Reload Basics, and I would like to get
>some comments, both on correctness and clarity.
>
>http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Reload.htm
>
>Your help will be appreciated, both by me and by the students
>struggling through this the first time.
>
   I agree with you.  It seems that the module code is
re-executed in the previously-existing modules namespace.
Wherever that code created new objects the first time, it
will create brand-new objects the second time.  Small
integers and interned strings will keep their identities (of
course), as will objects referenced through other modules.
Nothing is explicitely deleted, so bindings can be left over
from the modules prior incarnation.
No other namespaces will be affected except when code in the
module explicitely calls for it.

For what it's worth, the following code:

#=======================
"""M1 version 1"""
a=1
b=2
c=[1]
d=[2]

#=======================
"""M1 version 2"""
a=1
b=4
c=[3]
e=[4]

#=======================
"""test_reload.py"""
import os, shutil
def module_contents (M):
    print "Doc: ", M.__doc__
    for k, v in M.__dict__.items():
        if not k.startswith ("__"):
            print "%s:\t%d\t%s" % (k, id(v), v)

def grab_contents (M):
    d = {}
    for k, v in M.__dict__.items():
        if not k.startswith ("__"):
            d[k] = v
    return d

#os.remove ("M1.pyc")
shutil.copyfile ("M1_1.py", "M1.py")
import M1
module_contents (M1)
mc = grab_contents (M1)

print
os.remove ("M1.pyc")
shutil.copyfile ("M1_2.py", "M1.py")
reload (M1)
module_contents (M1)

print '\nMC:'
for k, v in mc.items():
    print "%s:\t%d\t%s" % (k, id(v), v)




Which gives

F:\home\mwilson\Projects\python\testscript>python test_reload.py
Doc:  M1 version 1
a:      8463376 1
c:      9940432 [1]
b:      8470496 2
d:      9940368 [2]

Doc:  M1 version 2
a:      8463376 1
c:      9940272 [3]
b:      8468480 4
e:      9937584 [4]
d:      9940368 [2]

MC:
a:      8463376 1
c:      9940432 [1]
b:      8470496 2
d:      9940368 [2]


The second os.remove seems to be required in case the reloaded
version of M1.py is older than the imported one.

        Regards.        Mel.


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Wed Mar 17 16:01:23 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 13:01:23 -0800
Subject: asking for python community opinion about groovy
References: <6b4509ac.0403170801.79aa64b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <213df9a1.0403171301.2ee03910@posting.google.com>

menceur at hotmail.com (M.M.) wrote in message news:<6b4509ac.0403170801.79aa64b7 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> IMO, it will be better to support the Jython project. Because Jython
> exists, it's very useful and powerful. In fact, I think java community
> want to have its own "scripting" language because java community is
> not open-minded enough and will not accept to use something for the
> outside.

I doubt he would disagree with your fundamental point, but I did
happen across this:

http://www.python.org/~jeremy/weblog/040203.html


Art


From bouil at bouil.org.invalid  Mon Mar 15 18:45:35 2004
From: bouil at bouil.org.invalid (Nicolas Bouillon)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:45:35 +0100
Subject: Replace accented chars with unaccented ones
Message-ID: <Tar5c.30313$zm5.12006@nntpserver.swip.net>

Hi

I would like to replace accentuel chars (like "?", "?" or "?") with non 
accetued ones ("?" -> "e", "?" -> "e", "?" -> "a").

I have tried string.replace method, but it seems dislike non ascii chars...

Can you help me please ?
Thanks.


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Mar  4 10:52:09 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:52:09 +0100
Subject: How to catch a generic exception?
References: <dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c27jbc$ti8$1@newshispeed.ch>

try:
   generateSomeException()
except Exception, e:
  print e


HTH
Franz

"Boogie El Aceitoso" <frr149 at telefonica.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dcie40t170sbhifs7mihfg9h1jm5prnbf0 at 4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> How can I catch a generic exception (without knowing a priori what
exception
> it will be)?
>
> For example, something like this
> try:
>    generateSomeException()
> except e:
>   print e
>
>




From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar  5 22:33:14 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:33:14 GMT
Subject: Split a sentence by punctuations using Python
References: <14b36d18.0403051444.21b3937e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_Db2c.716830$ts4.680605@pd7tw3no>

chad wrote:

> I want to split sentences by using punctuations, numeric numbers as
> the delimiters.
> 
> You know, string.split does not work for this objective.  So how can i
> achieve this?  Thanks.

check out kodos on sourceforge.  It's a small GUI that allows you to
interactively try out regexp expressions and see the results as you type. 
very handy!

Stewart



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar  6 22:00:14 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 03:00:14 GMT
Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?
References: <mailman.44.1078539398.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2e37t$1rsg2r$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am kinda new to Python, but not new to programming. 
> I am a certified Java programmer.
> 
> I don't want to read line after line, neither do I
> want to read the whole file all at once.  Thus none of
> read(), readline(), readlines() is what I want. I want
> to read a text file sentence by sentence. 

Question: How do I read sentence by sentence?
Answer: Read input stream char by char.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 21:07:45 2004
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 18:07:45 -0800
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
References: <mailman.419.1080242529.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0403251807.619375da@posting.google.com>

<snip>
> i need some advice.  i'm a back end programmer historically, but have 
> been exploring python for webapps and enjoying it.
> 
> i need to build some simple Win client-server or standalone apps.
> 
> the result needs to look professional and attractive, and i need 
> something i can get working fairly quickly with a modest learning curve.
<snip>
> I contrast this with Delphi which is
<snip>
> any thoughts on this?

I know this is clp, but I've had some experience of this dilemma.

1. Delphi is good if the project is very simple and mostly GUI & data,
without much business logic.

2. Python is better if there's much data and logic, and (little or) no
GUI.

3. Python is a pleasure to write. Delphi is not. C# is somewhere in
between (particularly if you have some c/c++/Java experience).

4. My latest MS Win project requires all: GUI, data, C/S, logic. I'm
using Visual C#.net and so far I believe it's a good choice.

I'm a Python-phile who believes in using the right tool for the job.

Hth.


From Python at ivonet.nl  Sun Mar 14 07:27:29 2004
From: Python at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:27:29 +0100
Subject: Embedded WebDesign with Python
Message-ID: <002e01c409bf$b7caeef0$9600000a@pc001>

Maybee you python junkies can help me.

My Goal:
A website where the content is fully shaped by <embedded> python in my html.

At this moment I use Apache 2 in combination with mod_python and Spyce

No I understand that mod_python allows embedded python, but I don't
understand how. Can someone give me a pointer or a good link to some good
pointers (which would already be a good pointer ;-)

Thanks,
Ivo.




From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Thu Mar 25 16:11:55 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:11:55 +0100
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument
References: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07>
	<c3vhf5$jq4$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c3vhun$13o$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Plus utilisable :
More useful :

        def functionname( module, var1):
                exec('from '+module+' import *')
                print upper(var1)

        functionname('string', 'azerty')






From phipps.xue at sap.com  Tue Mar 30 21:00:49 2004
From: phipps.xue at sap.com (Phipps Xue)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:00:49 +0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4ba4d$i9g$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <c4d8ok$q55$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

I'm really sorry for my ignorance of pyGTK in Windows. I've installed pyGTK
in my desktop by following Jon's reply message.

I feel it's really so cool, after run a helloworld application.

Phipps
"Phipps Xue" <phipps.xue at sap.com> wrote in message
news:c4ba4d$i9g$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de...
> pyGTK is also a good GUI frameworks but it's not available now for windows
> platform. I suppose it's its most important shortage.
>
> Phipps
> "Hugh Macdonald" <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list at python.org...
> > I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python
> and
> > was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> > different ones...
> >
> > wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just
so
> > slow to initialise in the first place.
> >
> > Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really
appealed
> to
> > me
> >
> > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> >
> > Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
> >
> > Anything else?
> >
> >
> > Hugh Macdonald
> >
> >
>
>




From mon-at-cox-net  Wed Mar 31 20:38:49 2004
From: mon-at-cox-net (Nick Monyatovsky)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:38:49 -0500
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
References: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nkrm609egoa94m49caplu8013vvs8o1g39@4ax.com>


>Hello,
>
>I recently wrote a Perl version of pyAlbum.py [1] -- a
>Python script to create an image album from a given
>directory -- plAlbum.pl [2].
>
>It made me realize how easy-to-use Python is.
>
>[1]
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246
>[2]
>http://www.premshree.resource-locator.com/cgi-bin/source.pl?file=../perl/plAlbum.pl
>
>-Premshree Pillai
>
>=====
>-Premshree
>[http://www.qiksearch.com/]
>


I cannot help, but make a couple of observations:

1. Although you point about Python being easy has some merit,
    I would not bring up an awkwadly written Perl script to back up
    that argument.

2. There are many things which are very easy to do in Perl, and
    are very cumbersome in Python. Regular expressions is a
    vivid example. Saying very generically that Python is easier
    than Perl is just an invitation for flame wars.

3. Lastly, Perl is not aspiring to or has ever claimed to
    be easy. That is not its strength and attraction.
   (Although, on a simple example like this, a more conventional
   Perl script (see below) is pretty comparable).

If you'd like to demonstrate that Python is easier than Perl, you'll
need to find a better case.

----------------- pyAlbum.pl -------------------------

=head

pyAlbum.pl

  Perl version of the pyAlbum.py script
  that creates an album
  of images from a given directory

(c) 2004 Premshree Pillai (27/02/04)
http://www.qiksearch.com/

=cut

use Tk::Image;

my @files;
my $count = 0;
my $total = 0;


sub getDir 
{
    print "Enter the directory to read images from (rel/abs path): ";
    $dirName = <STDIN>; chomp $dirName;
    -d $dirName or warn "Directory does not exist!" and getDir();
}


sub retPrevFile 
{
    my $index = shift;
    return "" unless $index;
    return sprintf '&laquo; <a href="%s.htm">Previous</a>',
$files[$index - 1];
}


sub retNextFile 
{
    my $index = shift;
    return "" if $index == $#files;
    return sprintf '<a href="%s.htm">Next</a> &raquo;', $files[$index
+ 1];
}

sub retPipe 
{
    my $index = shift;
    return " | " if $index and $index < $#files;
    return "";
}

sub getSlideName 
{
    print "Enter base name for album: ";
    $slideName = <STDIN>; chomp $slideName;
    -d "$dirName/$slideName" and warn "Directory $slideName exists!"
and getSlidename();
    mkdir "$dirName/$slideName" or die;
}

my $format = q[
<html>
   <head>
   <title>%s</title>
   <style type="text/css">
	  body	{font-family:Trebuchet MS, Arial, Verdana; 
                 font-size:10pt; font-weight:bold}
	  h4	{color:#CCCCCC}
	  a	{font-family:Trebuchet MS, Arial, Verdana; 
                 font-size:10pt; font-weight:bold; 
                 text-decoration:none}
	 a:hover {font-family:Trebuchet MS, Arial, Verdana; 
                  font-size:10pt; font-weight:bold; 
                  text-decoration:underline}
         img	{border:#000000 solid 1px}
   </style>
   </head>
   <body>
      <center><h2>%s</h2></center>
      <center><h4>%s (%s/%s)</h4></center>
      <center><a href="../%s"><img src="../%s"></a></center>
      <center>%s%s%s</center>
   </body>
</html>
];


getDir();
getSlideName();

print "Enter a title for the album: ";
$title = <STDIN>; chomp $title;

print "Enter image scaling factor (e.g., 0.5, <enter> for default) ";
$scale = <STDIN> || '1.0'; chomp $scale;

chdir $dirName; 
@files = <*.*>;
$total = scalar(@files);
chdir $slideName;

foreach $file (@files) 
{
    open FILE , ">$file.htm";
    printf FILE $format, $title, $title, $file, $count + 1, $total,
$file, $file, 
    retPrevFile($count), retPipe($count), retNextFile($count);
    close FILE;
    $count++;

    warn "File $file.htm created.\n"
}

print "\n", "Album created!\n";




From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Wed Mar 10 13:12:22 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:22 -0500
Subject: Graphics.
Message-ID: <20040310181222.GA10997@mail.theserver.ath.cx>

Hello all,

I'm looking for a good 2d/3d graphics library with python bindings (or
written in python).  I've found a few packages so far, and I'd like to
know what you guys think before I settle on one of them; I'm having a
hard time deciding which one to use.

- VPython: a 3d python package with high-level primitive support and
good user interface input processing, but no alpha channel API from
what I can tell (I need alpha processing capabilities)

- pygame: all-around high-level graphics manipulation with good event
API and alpha channel support, more do-it-yourself than vpython

- pyopengl: low-level (yet obviously powerful and high-performance)
option which integrates well with SDL / pygame

Right now my objective is to find a good API that will allow me to
perform fast alpha and blitting operations for a fancy menu system.
Do any of you have experience and subsequent advice?  I'm leaning
toward pygame.

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 12:22:00 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:22:00 -0700
Subject: os.popen() failing under ipython+cygwin, I'm stumped.
References: <c2i5c4$8a6$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.124.1078763134.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2ia3o$qp9$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Hi Jason,

Jason Tishler wrote:

> Fernando,
> 
> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:01:05AM -0700, Fernando Perez wrote:
>> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Does rebasing your Cygwin installation help?
> 
>     http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README

I passed the tip to the cygwin user who sees the problem, many thanks.  Since I
don't have cygwin myself, I'll have to wait for him to do any testing.  I'll
report back if I hear from him on any results.

Best regards,

f.


From breetai at sdf.lonestar.org  Fri Mar  5 15:47:14 2004
From: breetai at sdf.lonestar.org (Eduardo Bernal)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:47:14 -0700
Subject: Upgrade 2.2.2 to 2.3.3: Keep my old 3rd party modules or rebuild
 them or reinstall from scratch?
Message-ID: <4048E752.75F37710@sdf.lonestar.org>

I'd like to upgrade to 2.3.3, mostly to use VPython. I have a lot of
stuff not in the standard distro,
VPython, PIL, wxPython, eGenix tools, etc. How much of this stuff can I
still use as is, i.e. just copying over the 2.2 site-lib stuff to the
2.3 site-lib stuff? What will I have to rebuild? TIA

Ed 
-- 
You'd better beat it.  You can leave in a taxi.  If you can't get a
taxi, you can leave in a huff.  If that's too soon, you can leave in a
minute and a huff.
                -- Groucho Marx


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 17:42:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:42:22 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7fadnUoM0Z9SVcHd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Ed Cogburn wrote:

> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled around 
> some and read some programming language websites but I have yet to find 
> a language similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.  Have I 
> been looking in the wrong places?  I certainly can't be the only person 
> to want a Pythonish language that can be compiled.  

You certainly aren't the first to ask, and like many others you don't
give any reason for wanting it compiled.

Were you hoping for greater performance?  Resistance to reverse 
engineering?  Easier packaging and distribution?  Or something else? 
There are good and effective solutions for each of these problems, and 
as a result relatively little reason you should want Python to be just 
like those other languages in this respect.

-Peter


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 10:52:53 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:52:53 +0200
Subject: Tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <40684458.9030507@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40682BD8.3040501@stackless.com>
	<40684458.9030507@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <40684655.2060602@stackless.com>

Michael wrote:

> 
>> No, I think you don't get at the real problem:
>> People do use tabs which are 8 spaces, but they
>> want their code to be indented by steps of four.
>> This creates mixed tabbing, and that's what you
>> see way too often when reading foreign code.
>> You have to adjust your editor to *that* tabbing,
>> before editing the file, and then convert or
>> live with it.
> 
> 
> How would this create mixed tabbing unless sometimes they are using 
> spaces as tabs and sometimes using tabs as tabs? Will stopping the use 
> of tabs improve the situation or will that just mean that some people 
> use four spaces for indention and some people use eight.. 

...

Once again:
They use tabs but they want to do 4 space indentation.
That means they use a tab when it fits, and 4 spaces when not...

def mixed_tabs():
....if blah: # this is 4 spaces
--------pass # this is one tab

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From myang at clarku.edu  Thu Mar 25 21:18:18 2004
From: myang at clarku.edu (myang)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:18:18 -0500
Subject: import a modified module
Message-ID: <FCEBJCIGCKEKPAMFGPEMMEJECEAA.myang@clarku.edu>


I am revising a python module, and try it in python shell. Each time after
the module is modified, how can I import the new module? I remember there is
an "import" like staff to do it, but dont know its name clearly. I was not
able to google out it, and the huge bulk of python documentation is
fearsome. :(

Regards,
Yang




From esuvs at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 08:09:45 2004
From: esuvs at yahoo.co.uk (David)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:09:45 +0000
Subject: Problem displaying images with TkInter
Message-ID: <c279qp$csq$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

Hi,
        I'm new to python so I'm probably making a fairly simple mistake, but
look at the example below. It simply displays a rectangle and an image.

-------------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

c = Canvas(root, width=1024, height = 1024)
c.pack()

c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=mudPhoto)

root.mainloop()
-----------------------------------------------

Now I try to modify it so that the image and rectangle only appear when I
click the mouse on the canvas. I use the following code:

-----------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

def OnClick(event):
    print "click!!!"
    c.create_rectangle(10,10,50,50)
    mudPhoto = PhotoImage(file="/root/metropolis/mud.gif")
    c.create_image(50, 50, anchor=NW, image=mudPhoto)

c = Canvas(root, width=1024, height = 1024)
c.pack()
c.bind("<Button-1>",OnClick)
root.mainloop()
----------------------------------------------

However when I click the mouse it prints 'click!!!' and draws the rectangle
as expected. However it doesn't draw the image! Does anyone have any idea
why this would be?

Thanks for any help,

David


From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar  4 19:08:49 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:08:49 -0700
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com>
	<Yx3RAls/KDUL089yn@the-wire.com>
	<6ubf401c2qtarfoa36m03572dprj0h9kkl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:43:41 +0000, Stephen Horne
<steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>def print (*args) :
>  sys.stdout.write (string.join ([str(i) for i in args], " ") + "\n")

Cool. But we can go one better. The join function requires that we
import the soon-to-be-deprecated ( I am told.) string module.  The
proper way ( I am told.) is to use the join *method*:

>>> def prnt(*args):
	sys.stdout.write(' '.join([str(i) for i in args]) + '\n')
>>> prnt(1,2,3)
1 2 3
>>> 

Actually, I think this is rather ugly. The string 'method' still looks
like a 'function'.  We really need a 'join' method that takes a list
of strings as its 'front-door' object and the 'joiner' as its optional
'side-door' input.  Then we could do like Ruby and say:

[str(i) for i in args].join(' ').append('\n')

For another good example of Ruby's advantage in sequential operations
on strings see http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython

Incidentally, sys.stdout.write(i) *will* work on integers (at least in
Python 2.3.3 running in IDLE 1.0.2)  It doesn't work if I start Python
from a command line!!  Very strange.  I do run my examples before
posting.

-- Dave



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar 18 03:21:55 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:21:55 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
In-Reply-To: <c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>

Nicola Mingotti schrieb:
> 2) Like C -----> Char is converted to int
> #include<stdio.h>
> int main(){
>   printf("%i %i", '1' >  1 , '1' + 1 );
>   return 0;
> }

That's not really a conversion. '1' is 0x31 in memory
and 0x31 > 1. C simply compares memory locations, so
comparisons are perhaps even be machine dependent.
Unlike C, Python's comparison results for different types
are defined in a strange but archicture independent way, see
Python Library Reference 2.3.3. The important thing is that
objects of different types are not equal.

> Excuse me again for mistakes or possible (but unwanted)
> rude language . 

Sorry, no excuse. :-) Really, please stop excusing, for the
following reasons:

1. It's GREAT that you post in English, as I don't understand Italian.
2. Native speakers also make mistakes.
3. Nobody expects an excuse (I think).

:-)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 17 05:10:39 2004
From: ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk (alastair)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 02:10:39 -0800
Subject: Handling geoTIFF files
Message-ID: <23ae7099.0403170210.540888cd@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am trying to use Python to do the following:

- read in an image in geoTIFF format
- extract the tags from the file
- do something interesting with the tags

I've read about the Python Imaging Library (PIL) which seems to do
what I need with TIFF files. I was wondering if anyone knows if this
library will work with geoTIFF files or if there are any other methods
of doing what I need.

Many thanks,

Alastair.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 29 08:05:44 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:05:44 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>


"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list at python.org...
>
> >The basic difficulty with tabs is that there are a huge
> >number of programs "in the wild" that treat tabs
> >differently. Unless you're completely in control of all
> >the programs that will ever be used to edit and display
> >your program, using tabs will cause formatting errors
> >somewhere, to someone under some circumstance
> >that you never thought of.
> >
> >
> Which programs? I find spaces to cause weird issues. Especially if you
> use some half assed editor that uses variable width fonts.

I don't have very much sympathy for people who
use poor editors to write programs.  I've got a lot of
sympathy for people who are stuck with defective
rendering and printing programs for analyzing programs
that they didn't write in the first place, though. Note that
Python, which is mostly what we're talking about on this
newsgroup, comes with a reasonably competent editor
called Idle. There are very few environments where you
can use Python at all where you can't use Idle.

I've never seen variable width fonts to change the width
of spaces on the left, unless it was doing something like
full justification.

As far as rendering programs, the most obvious
culprit is OE, which for all of its defects and security
problems, is still one of the most used mail and newsgroup
clients out there.

I'll also point out that even programs that properly follow
the tab "standard" will not render well since the standard
is that a tab goes to the next multiple of 8. The number
8 has nothing to do with readability: it was decided on
as the best compromise on compressing the number of
characters going over a line when line speeds were *very*
slow and teletypes really were electromechanical monsters
with these little metal stops called 'tabs' in the back.

There is, of course, no standard at all for how to change
the default tabbing in programs, which means that one
has to deal with each and every one on an individual
basis - if it's even possible.

Reading the source for Idle is quite
enlightening: there is a comment about Tk doing something
rather absurd if you change the tab default.

> >The problems with mixed tabs and spaces are even
> >worse: you can lose indentation and totally mess up
> >the program so it won't even compile if you use the
> >wrong tools on such a program.
> >
> >
> That'd just be bad programming to use different formatting standards
> within the same program. At least within the same file.

Definitely.

> >This is the basic reason why the current standard for
> >library modules is 4 space indentation; it's the only
> >thing that is, for all practical purposes, guaranteed to
> >work for everyone, with any editor, formatter,
> >renderer and printer out there.
> >
> >
> I don't see how it is any better than a standard of always using a
> single tab or space for indention. I hate code that requires me to press
> multiple space or delete keys to change the block level of a line of
> code. I'm a coder and therefore am lazy. Why press four keys when I
> could press one?

Any programming editor worth the name will insert spaces
when you use the tab key; likewise it will adjust with the
backspace key. This is not a problem unique to Python,
after all.

The same comment applies to variable width fonts. A good
programming editor will not use them.

> >Python is not Perl. Python's philosophy has never
> >been to provide several different ways of doing things
> >just to provide different ways. There needs to be a
> >demonstrated benefit to the different ways, and tabs
> >don't make that cut. If you want the space savings,
> >ziping the file will do much better.
> >
> >
> I'm not a fan of multiple ways but I think it's different to remove a
> feature than to add a feature. Breaking existing code for pointless
> reasons is bad. I'd rather they keep tab support than spaces but since
> both have a historical support I'd be wary of removing either. Again
> zipping files is adding additional steps which IMO is bad from a lazy
> coder point of view. The lazy coder standard of coding keeps code
> simple. Smaller isn't a significant problem in most cases.
>




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Mar 24 10:31:12 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:31:12 +0100
Subject: using MySQLdb module
In-Reply-To: <40619FBD.2010609@zslide.com>
References: <40619FBD.2010609@zslide.com>
Message-ID: <4061A9C0.9000001@ghaering.de>

vincent Salaun wrote:
> hi,
> 
> i'd like to use the MySQLdb module in my jython script but it doesn't 
> work ...
> Is it possible or does this module only work with python ? [...]

This module only works with traditional Python, not with Jython.

To use MySQL from Jython, use mxJDBC module, which is integrated in 
modern Jython versions, anyway.

-- Gerhard



From adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 15:35:00 2004
From: adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com (Adelein and Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:35:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
Message-ID: <20040329203500.47023.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com>

I have recently completed a mini-project with the goal of rewriting
in Python Eric Raymond's fortune.pl script
(http://www.catb.org/~esr/fortunes/fortune.pl-unconfuse-apache),
except that instead of generating a sigline for mail, it prints a
fortune to screen in the traditional manner of the Unix fortune. I
have succeeded in terms of functionality, but because I am only a
novice programmer, I would appreciate any comments, criticism,
suggestions, alternative options, etc. that more experienced
programmers would be willing to give, whether technical or stylistic
in nature. Here is my code:

#! /usr/bin/env python

## fortune
## Jeremy Conn
## Version 0.9, 20020329
## GNU GPL http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl.html
## Description: Generates a random fortune for display onscreen from
##              a single file of quotes which the user maintains; the
##              quotes can be multi-line, and are separated by lines
##              containing only a percent sign (same format as
##              traditional fortune files).

import random
import re
import sys

FORTUNES_FILE = ".fortune"

# What file should we use?
if len(sys.argv) > 1:
    fortunes_file = sys.argv[1]
else:
    fortunes_file = FORTUNES_FILE

# Let's see if we can open that file for reading
try:
    fi = open(fortunes_file, 'r')
except:
    sys.exit("Cannot open fortunes file %s." % fortunes_file)

# Collect the file pointers to each fortune entry in the file
fp_entry = [0]
line = fi.readline()
while line != "":
    if re.match(r'^%$', line):
        fp_entry.append(fi.tell())
    line = fi.readline()

# Seek to a random entry
try:
    fi.seek(random.choice(fp_entry))
except:
    sys.exit("Cannot seek.")

# Add the entry to output message and then print it
fortune = ''
line = fi.readline()
while line != '':
    if re.match(r'^%$', line):
        break
    fortune += line
    line = fi.readline()
print fortune

# Return fp to beginning of file, close the file, and exit program
fi.seek(0,0)
fi.close()
sys.exit()

- Jeremy
adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  2 20:40:27 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:40:27 -0800
Subject: Group comment
In-Reply-To: <c23as9$k9n$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
	<c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122> <c234h9$nep$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c23as9$k9n$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <c23d7g$3k1$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>You may as well suggest /* and */, as they are far more well known, and 
>>significantly more acceptable (in my opinion) than your syntax. 
>>Considering that /* */ has not already been added to the language, I 
>>doubt that an aribirary magical syntax for commenting code would be added.
>>
> 
> 
> /*
> /* you missed the point */
> */

I understood that nuance, and while your syntax allows nesting of 
comments, it is still arbitrary and magical.  May as well use an "if 
False:" construct and gain the benefit of visual indentation, regardless 
of an editor's syntax highlighting capability.

  - Josiah


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 23 13:35:31 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:35:31 -0500
Subject: import, functions, and threading
In-Reply-To: <25b5433d.0403231000.4003f7fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOELAJLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Aahz]
>> There were some posts recently discussing whether it's poor style to
>> put import statements inside functions.  I recently got reminded
>> that there's one very good reason to avoid it: Python has an import
>> lock that blocks more than one thread from executing import
>> statements.  Putting import statements inside functions that might
>> be called in a threaded environment is asking for deadlock trouble.

[Phillip J. Eby]
> If I understand this correctly, a deadlock could only occur if a lock
> was being acquired by module-level code in a newly imported module,
> after another thread acuired that lock, and then blocked waiting for
> the import lock.
>
> So, all this means is that you shouldn't acquire locks in module-level
> code, because if you do, you can run afoul of this problem entirely
> independent of whether you do any importing in functions!
>
> So, treating this as an issue with importing inside functions seems
> like a red herring.  The import lock can only be a source of deadlocks
> for module-level code, and the issue applies to *any* import
> statement.

A more common deadlock is this one, in various guises (some much subtler
than this! this is meant to be as obvious as possible), which has no explict
locks:

"""
import threading
import time

initialized = False

class Worker(threading.Thread):

    def run(self):
        global initialized
        import sha

        self.accum = sha.new()
        initialized = True
        while True:
            pass

Worker().start()
while not initialized:
    time.sleep(1)
print 'OK!'
"""

If you import that as a module, you'll deadlock:  the import lock is held by
the thread doing the import, that thread is spinning in the loop waiting for
the new thread's run() method to set initialized to True, but the new
thread's run() method is blocked on the "import sha", waiting for the import
lock.  There's no problem if sha is imported at module level instead.

The lesson I take from that isn't to avoid function-level imports, though,
it's that merely importing a module shouldn't start threads as a side
effect.  Yes, I am a Zope Corp employee <wink>.




From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Mar 16 16:33:20 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:33:20 +1300
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13057AA792@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1304677AE3@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> "Philipp Lenssen" <info at outer-court.com> wrote in message 
> news:c340l1$23rse7$2 at ID-203055.news.uni-> berlin.de...
> > montezum wrote:
> >
> > > where can I find Paris Hilton video?
> >
> > Where you find everything. In Google.
> >
> Or easier: rent a videocamera, book a flight to Paris, take a 
> cab to the Hilton, shoot some video, take a cab to the 
> airport, and fly back home.

You have a strange definition of "easier". :)

=Tony Meyer




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 30 22:51:06 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:51:06 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<58cb60lmovocadg9p3ghu39t4ga343gfvd@4ax.com>
	<c48e0g$2fkvm2$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<37S9c.58035$cx5.39835@fed1read04>
	<mailman.112.1080651548.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hrfk60tmgg6cselpj418mcnku89fl07g0k@4ax.com>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:58:44 +0200, Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org>
wrote:

>Mark Hahn wrote:
>> But everything in Prothon is subject to change until > 7/04.
>
>Is that April the 7th or July the 4th?

You didn't spot the little clue? As in _why_ the 4th of July?

:-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 23 21:33:16 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:33:16 -0700
Subject: IDLE won't launch, and other frustrations
References: <HNidnYFt0JEkff3dRVn-jA@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <8hs160ltsqq9k3k18cfs7h2jtdro6rss98@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:12:53 -0500, "Michael A. Covington"
<look at www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address> wrote:

>All looks good except - IDLE won't start at all!!!  I try to launch it, get
>a few seconds of the hourglass cursor, and it's gone, with nothing on the
>screen and no processes running!
>
>Rebooting didn't cure this.  What gives?

This is a common problem with lots of causes.  Do a Google search on
'start IDLE group:comp.lang.python'

Here is one good thread:
IDLE won't start 13-Oct-2003
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=9b4l30tn66bhni11hdatu8ot7uvpme8h13%404ax.com&rnum=10&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dstart%2BIDLE%2Bgroup:comp.lang.python%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D9b4l30tn66bhni11hdatu8ot7uvpme8h13%25404ax.com%26rnum%3D10

In spite of these problems, I'm very happy with IDLE.  Once you get it
working, it is ideal for students.  I also use it in my development
work, along with Qt Designer for the GUI part.

-- Dave



From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 31 01:24:20 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:24:20 +1200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c4do6m$2ffmst$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> I find bottom posting to be a real pain as when I look at a new message 
> it defaults to showing me the top of the message and I then have to 
> scroll through pages of quoted posts that I have already read just to 
> read one or two lines stuck at the bottom.

That's equally bad. The issue isn't about so-called "top-posting"
vs. "bottom-posting". The issue is that you should only be
quoting SMALL amounts of the original post -- just enough to
establish a context for what you're about to say.

Then people don't have to scroll either way to find the
new content.

(You will notice that I did not quote any more of the original
message, either at the top or the bottom.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar  1 09:02:01 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:02:01 -0000
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<1045c7gfn9ipj38@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1046gip10m5m9bc@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1045c7gfn9ipj38 at corp.supernews.com>,
Robert M. Emmons <RobMEmmons at cs.com> wrote:
			.
		[apt comments]
			.
			.
>What's not good in python:
>
>*  If speed is more important than coding time use C/C++ instead.
>*  If you want to obscruate your code maybe a compiled langague is better.
>
>Rob

Note the availability of pyobfuscate <URL:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/ >.

Myself, in the absence of more details, I advise people for
whom speed is important to work in Python--but be prepared
to combine it with C coding (or even assembler!  I've been
experimenting lately ...).
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From christian at mvonessen.de  Sun Mar 28 09:11:46 2004
From: christian at mvonessen.de (Christian von Essen)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:11:46 +0200
Subject: How to run another .py file w/o exec command?
In-Reply-To: <yQA9c.7195$ol3.1379@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <yQA9c.7195$ol3.1379@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c46mf2$4en$1@online.de>

CaptainN at altel.net wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> I'm sure there's a way to do this, but I can't find it.  How can I execute
> another .py file from my first .py file without using an exec* command?
> They're both in the same directory, and it would be nice to have some
> run("another.py") type statement as opposed to a big exec with absolute
> pathnames and garbage like that.
> 
> It works the way I have it, but it just seems like a bad way in general to
> do it.  I'm runnning Python 2.3.3 on win32.
> 
> Thanks!
> CaptainN
> 
> 
> 
I'm really new to python, but there are several ways with the import 
statement:
1) If the code you want to execute is not in a class but just like this:
File: other.py
class A:
     pass

print "You've called me!"

then you can just import it with "import other" and the print statement 
gets executed, like any other thing at column 0
2) If 1) is not the case i.e.
File: other.py
class A:
     pass

def method():
     print "You've called me!"

you can import it with "import other", too and just do "other.method()" 
or "from other import *" and "method()"

Christian von Essen


From snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar  5 09:29:15 2004
From: snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk (Stephen Kellett)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:29:15 +0000
Subject: Getting params in callback function.
Message-ID: <XeQyd$D76ISAFwpU@objmedia.demon.co.uk>

Hello everyone. I've written a tracing function in C which is called
when Python executes each function and line and exceptions etc.

I don't know much about Python (I've been using assembly, C++ and Java
in varying amounts since 1983), so I'd very much appreciate some help
trying to get this information. If this is not the correct newsgroup to
ask this question, please suggest an alternative.

How can I determine what the parameters to a function are when the
callback is called when Python enters a function?

I've included a code snippet below for clarity.

int pythonCallback(PyObject *obj,
                 PyFrameObject *frame,
                 int            what,
                 PyObject       *arg)
{
        switch(what)
        {
        case PyTrace_CALL:
                {
                        // entering a function, arg is always NULL

                        // my attempt at getting the params
                        // I thought they may be here, but this code
fails
                        // I initially thought of getting the type name
                        // and if that worked I could move on to getting
                        // the value, but even getting the type name
failed

                        int     i;

                        wprintf(_T("Num locals: %d\n"),
frame->f_nlocals);
                        for(i = 0; i < frame->f_nlocals; i++)
                        {
                                PyObject        *po;
                                char            *objTypeName;

                                po = frame->f_localsplus[i];
                                objTypeName = po->ob_type->tp_name;
                                wprintf(_T("Local %d: type: %s\n"), i,
                                        objTypeName);
                        }
                }
                break;

        case PyTrace_EXCEPTION:
                {
                        // exiting a function via an exception
                        // arg is Exception information as returned by
                        // sys.exc_info()
                }
                break;

        case PyTrace_LINE:
                {
                        // line number event, arg is always NULL
                }
                break;

        case PyTrace_RETURN:
                {
                        // leaving a function
                        // arg is Value being returned to the caller
                }
                break;

        default:
                {
                        // unknown operation
                }
                break;
        }

        return 0;
}

Thank you for reading, hope you can shed some light on this.

Stephen
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information:        http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Mar 30 11:08:57 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:08:57 -0500
Subject: Tabs and spaces
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com><mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org><106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.114.1080652458.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106j6v5t8sr9k37@news.supernews.com>


"Gerrit" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.114.1080652458.20120.python-list at python.org...
John Roth wrote:
> As far as rendering programs, the most obvious
> culprit is OE, which for all of its defects and security
> problems, is still one of the most used mail and newsgroup
> clients out there.

<pre>
T h e r e   i s   a   s o l u t i o n   ; - )
</pre>

1. This only works if you are using html, which is
strongly discouraged (but still depressingly prevalent)

2. The OE problem is on the recipient's side, not
on the sender's side.

John Roth

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:55 UTC:
15.0?C   wind 5.8 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature




From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Thu Mar  4 16:00:39 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:00:39 +0100
Subject: Postgres BYTEA problems
In-Reply-To: <27ab36b3.0403031305.3e1ed4f7@posting.google.com>
References: <27ab36b3.0403031305.3e1ed4f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c285dn$ibn$2@bagan.srce.hr>

Steve wrote:

> a character that must be escaped.
> so if I should be getting
> "\x00\x01"
> I'll get
> "\\x00\\x01"

Are you sure that it's the dbapi driver that is doing it, or maybe the 
data was written to the database in that way (e.g. not chr(00)+chr(01) 
but '\' 'x' '0' '0' ...)?



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar  5 07:21:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:21:01 +0100
Subject: Tkinter main window needs to disappear
References: <mailman.13.1078482230.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c29rbd$joe$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Herman Geldenhuys wrote:

> Blanki've got to use a library(tkSnack) in Tkinter, but i don't want to
> use the Tk GUI. i need to create a Tkinter.Tk() and call it's main loop
> for the package to work, but like I said, I don't want to use the GUI.
> when I do this, there pops up a gui (main) window, but how do I make it
> disappear?

>>> import Tkinter
>>> root = Tkinter.Tk()
>>> root.withdraw()
''

I'd rather have the window not appear in the first place, but I don't know
how to achieve that, either.

Peter


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Tue Mar 30 01:48:56 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:48:56 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
Message-ID: <006701c41623$12c7b1c0$0600a8c0@Hugh>

I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
different ones...

wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
slow to initialise in the first place.

Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed to
me

GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today

Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system

Anything else?


Hugh Macdonald




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Fri Mar  5 11:10:03 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:10:03 -0800
Subject: Python Database Driven Web Development
In-Reply-To: <5E62CFE4CB546F44ADCABD9852C2C8EC048C94@email.toronto.visiontv.ca>
References: <5E62CFE4CB546F44ADCABD9852C2C8EC048C94@email.toronto.visiontv.ca>
Message-ID: <4048A65B.9040007@mlug.missouri.edu>

You'll probably want to look at mod_python and MySQLdb. I like to 
sepperate appliation logic from UI logic using xml-rpc but that's only 
needed if you want the ability to have multiple front-ends or want a 
clean sepperation.

>What do I need other than Python, Apache, and MySQL to develop a database driven intranet? Do I need to use any framework or application server? If I do please kindly direct me where to go.
>



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 15 10:52:30 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:52:30 -0500
Subject: Seeking advice on GUI code architecture
References: <Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <105bkcsje8e3mbe@news.supernews.com>


"Qp" <qp at al.net> wrote in message
news:Zp95c.6130$CI3.3590 at fe03.usenetserver.com...
> Hi, I've got a generic coding architecture question about an application
I'm
> developing.  Given that I've never developed anything quite like this
before
> (especially not in Python), I'd appreciate any pointers that you can give
> me.
>
> The app is a network client written using Twisted and Tkinter.  The
clients
> will connect to a server, communicate via public & private chat, and also
> play simple games.
>
> My problem is this:  how do you keep your GUI code seperate from as much
> underlying code as possible?  As I begin, I find myself adding a lot of
> intermediate code (not Tkinter, but not Twisted either) to the GUI class,
> and it's beginning to clutter things up.  It really seems as if I should
> have a GUI class, a network class, and some separate way of communicating
> between them... but I can't seem to visualize the structure in my mind.
>
> If anyone has tips, docs, or examples, I would greatly appreciate it.

The suggestions about MVC and Facade patterns are right on.
One thing that will help *a lot* is to provide a second UI for
your program. Make it text based for testing. That will force you
to factor out common behavior.

John Roth

>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
>




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 07:44:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:44:56 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>


"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021 at fed1read04...
> > although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use Prothon.
>
> Can you please point me to those reasons?

Since I got into a minor flame war over them, including a
very snide and oh so superior response from one yahoo
who almost hit my killfile over it, I'll just mention that there
are ***very good***, that is ***extremely good***
reasons why the Python standard is to use spaces for
indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be
removed in 3.0.

There are enough interesting languages out there to
investigate that I simply won't bother with candidates
that don't play fair with ***all*** the tools I use,
or that people I communicate with use.

John Roth





From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Mar  9 23:23:15 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:23:15 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9qh2i1-2up.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> I find it interesting that many
> people who come from a C++ background (especially those who migrated
> from C) tend to dislike exceptions.  It must have been something in the
> water when they were growing up :-)

It also affects former Java weenies.  As a Java programmer you expect
your code to be run under a JIT (and not interpretted) and you are
aware that exceptions are significantly more expensive than straight
forward code.  This is less of an issue in Python as interpretters
don't tend to have as expensive exceptions compared to "normal" code.

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-2000/jw-0818-exceptions-p2.html

(2/3rds of the way down)

Roger




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar 18 16:49:56 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:49:56 -0500
Subject: Release history ?
In-Reply-To: <DGo6c.52740$mU6.219523@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEBHJKAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bror Johansson]
> I've searched for, but haven't found, a compilation of the incremental
> differences between major releases of Python, starting from (my entry
> version) 1.4 or 1.5.
>
> Is there somewhere something that contains this info?

Look at Misc/HISTORY in your Python distribution.  Misc/NEWS contains
most-recent history, and the older parts of that migrate into Misc/HISTORY
as the centuries go by.




From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 18:31:30 2004
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:31:30 +0000
Subject: machine control script ( parameterless method? )
In-Reply-To: <404b63a7$0$295$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <340a6b1b6f65b385490e5d818b2b6c9e@news.scbiz.com>
	<20040306123424.20326.00000892@mb-m04.aol.com>
	<404a1dcd$1_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>
	<404b63a7$0$295$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <404bb0d3_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>

F. Petitjean wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 simon place <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>that's why the question is actually only about 
>>getting rid of the brackets.
> 
> If the action is a property, simply writing someobject.someobject can
> trigger a get method  whithout the brackets.
> 
> Regards.

thanks this is lot better, i might be able to except a dot but if anyone has 
an idea about getting rid of this too?


From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Fri Mar  5 06:30:10 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 03:30:10 -0800
Subject: os.popen varies return type depending on exit status?
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403050330.572a68da@posting.google.com>

Hi there, on Linux:

   >>> [ type(popen(cmd).close()) for cmd in ( 'true', 'foo' ) ]
   sh: line 1: foo: command not found
   [<type 'NoneType'>, <type 'int'>]


This feels inconsistent to me, and it just bit me because I was
expecting a 0 exit status on success, not None. Does close() return
this for historic reasons?


David.


From vincent.salaun at zslide.com  Fri Mar 26 06:19:35 2004
From: vincent.salaun at zslide.com (vincent Salaun)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:19:35 +0100
Subject: extending dbexts
Message-ID: <406411C7.9060606@zslide.com>

hi,

i'd like to know if it's possible to extend dbexts to other database 
modules as MySQLdb ...

For the moment, it only supports zxJDBC and mxODBC modules but they say 
that it "could easily be modified to support others. It allows 
developers to write scripts without knowledge of the implementation 
language of Python (either C or Java). " (see 
http://www.jython.org/docs/zxjdbc.html for details).

I just begin to use python and i looked at dbexts.py but it seems to be 
a bit complicated ....

Does anybody know if dbexts support new modules now or if there are 
projects around that ?
I searched some resources about dbexts on the web but didn't find so 
much things ....

thanks,
vincent



From achrist at easystreet.com  Thu Mar 18 23:54:21 2004
From: achrist at easystreet.com (Al Christians)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:54:21 -0800
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
In-Reply-To: <a3hd50dg0v2q82i3st9dpm266sf8qrhffk@4ax.com>
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
	<a3hd50dg0v2q82i3st9dpm266sf8qrhffk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <105kv93nqqrr809@corp.supernews.com>

There's a great old book from about 25 years ago: "Graded Problems in 
Computer Science".   It's a language-neutral set of problem sets that
starts with very simple basics and takes you through a big part of what 
was the undergraduate CS curriculum back then.  Nothing much about
GUI's or OO's or relational databases, but you'll be able to code real
good when you've worked your way through it.  And of course, you can
use GUI's and OOP as you work the problems. You'll need a basic 
reference for your language of choice to help you get through it.


Al


From steve at waypath.com  Sun Mar 28 20:29:56 2004
From: steve at waypath.com (Steve @ Waypath)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:29:56 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
Message-ID: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net>

I need help. I'm trying to write a process wrapper class in Python (on
Linux) that let's one:
 - read service definitions from a config file (where a service definition
includes a bash command to start the service, and the service is a daemon)
 - call a method that will start up the service
 - call a method that will shut down the service.
 - other stuff not relevant here

Where I'm stumped is in starting up the service in a way that:
 - doesn't block the running of the main process (i.e. returns control back
to the wrapper, so it will listen for more commands)
 - let's me get some kind of handle on the started service that I can later
use to shut down the service.

I've tried every implementation of os.system, os.popen*, os.spawn* , and
(os.fork + os.exec*) for which I can find an example or that I can imagine,
but I can't come up with anything that works for me.  os.spawnv() looked
very promising, but every process I start with it goes defunct.

I won't bore you with examples of stuff that doesn't work. I've tried so
many things, my head is spinning. I don't care if I wrap the process in a
handler that my main process controls/kills or if I spin off a process but
track it's PID, to kill later. I don't care if the PID is in memory or
written to a file I can read later.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Mar  2 09:05:45 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Mar 2004 15:05:45 +0100
Subject: Why Python?
References: <Xns949ECD7289AD6Todd7Nospampleasecom@68.12.19.6>
	<kDz0c.427767$I06.4863594@attbi_s01> <4043597F.30506@cs.com>
	<mailman.21.1078156622.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfd67v9wee.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> One debugging feature that Python doesn't support is
> "edit-while-debugging" (edit the function/method) you just debug,
> something which is possible in VB and VC6, for example)

Sorry ... what do you mean by "edit while debugging" ?

Something like XCode's "fix-n-continue" ?

In other words the ability to redefine a function in a running program
(possibly even before the stack has been unwound after an error (or
breakpoint) was encountered) ?

[Something which has been an inherent part of the language in many
members of the Lisp family for decades, BTW]

If you forget about not unwinding the stack, Python certainly supports
this.

Now, how would one prevent stack unwiding when an exception is raised
... in order to allow the user to inspect the stack frames navigate
them, redifine any functions, and then allow continuation?

[I guess I could find the answer in the pdb source.]


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Fri Mar 19 02:13:33 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:13:33 -0700
Subject: Updating Widgets
References: <jpu6c.38749$SR1.45480@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <405A9B0E.242E70EC@pobox.com>

SWright wrote:
> Is it possible to make the un-named button update without closing and 
> reopening the window?

No, not if you insist on not giving the button a name so that you can
refer to it later.

The only widget options that can automatically track changes to a
variable are those with "variable" in their names, for example the
textvariable= option on Labels.  Even in the cases where you can use a
variable, it doesn't really buy you much to be able to call .set() on
the variable rather than .config() on the widget - you have to keep a
reference to SOMETHING in either case.  I think the only places in
Tkinter where use of a Tcl variable is unavoidably required are the
Radiobutton and Checkbox widgets, and the corresponding menu items.
	Jason Harper


From andy at reportlab.com  Mon Mar 22 18:00:09 2004
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:00:09 -0000
Subject: 3 weeks to go until Python UK!
Message-ID: <PGECLPOBGNBNKHNAGIJHOEGBKIAA.andy@reportlab.com>


The UK Python Conference 2004 is just 3 weeks away, at
the Randolph Hotel in Oxford, April 16-17 2004 (Fri/Sat).
Come and listen to top Python experts including David Ascher,
Alex Martelli, Samuele Pedroni, Marc-Andre Lemburg, Chris
Withers, Duncan Booth, Armin Rigo and more.

   http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html


The event follows on from a 2-day Open Source Forum discussing
the key issues in the software industry, with speakers from
IBM, SuSE, MySQL, Zope (Paul Everitt), ActiveState (David Ascher)
reflecting on the state and direction of Open Source Software
and debating key issues such as software patents. Come and make
it a week!

   http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html

Python companies may be interested in our budget sponsorship package:
a stand and a 10-minute lunchtime talk on the Friday or Saturday Python
track for just ?200.  This is an ideal chance to showcase your
skills or solutions to an audience of architects and decision
makers from throughout the UK software development, or to
advertise your Python product.

   http://www.accu.org/conference/sponsorship.html


Best Regards

Andy Robinson
UK Python Conference chair




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Thu Mar 25 07:59:54 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 04:59:54 -0800
Subject: confused with xml and minidom
References: <c3tc72$4dm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403250459.2679a64f@posting.google.com>

Guy Robinson <guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz> wrote:

> table.childnode('tbody').getElementsByTagname('tr') doesn't work.

There is no such method as 'childnode'. childNodes is a list of all
children of tbody, including tr elements and text nodes representing the
whitespace in the document. You can search through it manually:

  def getChildElementsByTagName(parentNode, tagnem):
    els= []
    for child in parentNode.childNodes:
      if child.nodeType==child.ELEMENT_NODE and child.tagname==tagname:
        els.append(child)
    return els

  tbody= table.getChildElementsByTagName('tbody')[0]
  trs= tbody.getChildElementsByTagName('tr')

or just use getElementsByTagName:

  tr= table.getElementsByTagName('tr')[0]

Note that getElementsByTagName works recursively, so for example in the
case of nested tables you'll get more items returned than just the direct
children.

Also in the standard DOM the NodeList objects returned by
getElementsByTagName are supposed to be 'live' and will change as the
document is updated. This isn't supported in minidom, but might be in
other implementations, so it's a good idea to use list() to convert the
NodeList to a static non-updating Python list before using it if you're
going to be changing the document at the same time.

> Delete this row and insert the new rows?

document.createDocumentFragment() a new fragment and appendChild the new
row elements to it, then tbody.replaceChild(fragment, tr).

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From hellprout at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 02:58:01 2004
From: hellprout at yahoo.com (hellprout)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 23:58:01 -0800
Subject: problem with wxtextctrl
Message-ID: <5b8834c2.0403302358.2698f8f3@posting.google.com>

hi , i have a problem with a wxtextctrl with multiline option.
i want to write a file , line after line , in my wxtextctrl .
But my file is too longer , and the wxtextctrl can't write the end of
the file , i miss 100 lines of my file ...
What can i do to have all data file ?

what library can i use to replace wxtextctrl ? 

thanks 
sylvain 
----


Bonjour , j'ai un probl?me avec un wxtextctrl , j'ai un fichier qui
dooit ?tre trop long pour la m?moire d'un wxtextctrl donc les 100
derni?res lignes du fichier n'apparaissent pas .
Comment puis je faire ?
dois je changer de methode ?

merci 
sylvain


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Mar 19 06:54:54 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:54:54 +0100
Subject: Python Tic Tac Toe
References: <mailman.147.1079656435.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3fc96$n0t$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !


Bad I.A., but nice sample for Python-Web-Programming.

Michel Claveau





From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Mar 31 04:15:11 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:15:11 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <406A8C1F.6040905@mlug.missouri.edu>


>As was mentioned in a recent thread python is definitively
>the tool for applications with complex code and no or little UI.
>For UI-intense apps, win32 C# and delphi are still hard to beat
>  
>
I wouldn't say that. Python definately benefits from portability and 
easy to write and maintain code. Much better than C#, Delphi, Java, VB, 
etc. Tkinter is just UGLY though. wxPython looks good and isn't hard to 
code but it's hard to learn because of the bad documentation.

>Possibly a smart (and not necessarily big) wxpython book
>could prove a decisive argument for wxpython and python
>as well specifically for the "MS visual *" and delphi user
>communities
>  
>
I'd like to see such a book. Maybe a couple. An in-debth book would be 
great for me. A Learn Visually wxPython book for beginners would be a 
good idea too.

>Is it time for the python community to commit a bit
>more to the wxwidgets/wxpython environment?
>I feel so
>  
>
I lot of Python people don't like wxPython. I'm really not sure why as 
it always works for me. I think wxPython is great but really needs more 
of an experienced and vocal community and as I said some Python centric 
documentation.



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Mar  4 17:46:24 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:46:24 +0100
Subject: Debugging Python extensions
References: <c42b7031.0403041232.2941952@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c294a2$mcq$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>


"Gus Tabares" <gustabares at verizon.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c42b7031.0403041232.2941952 at posting.google.com...
| Hello all,
|
| I'm writing some Python extensions in C under Windows using Visual
| Studio .NET 2003. I want to be able to debug my extensions using .NET.
| I'm not very clear on the exact process of doing this.
|
| So far I have compiled a debug version of the 'pythoncore' project
| that is located in the Python sources. This has produced the
| python23_d.dll which I will use to link with my pyd.
|
| I have a few questions after this step:

| 1. Do I need to compile my own version of Python2.3 to debug my pyd?

  Yes, you need python23_d.dll (which you say you already have, as well as
  python_d.exe


| 2. Do I have to name my debug pyd as filename_d.pyd?

  Yes.

| 3. Does the init function need to be named initfilename_d?

  No.

|
| I understand that .NET 2003 is not "supported" (I believe only VS6 is)
| but I would think using .NET 2003 would not be much different aside
| from converting the projects to the new format.

I think it was Martin v. L?wis who created the VC++ 7.1 projects that live
in the PCBuild directory for the current development version - you can
download it off
http://cvs.perl.org/snapshots/python/python/python-latest.tar.gz
Check the readme.txt in that same directory for further details...

HTH,
Vincent Wehren


| Thanks,
| Gus




From jmeile at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 09:29:15 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:29:15 +0100
Subject: Hiding console window
In-Reply-To: <pdKdnSucPq3BNMTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
References: <Xkh6c.8082$GQ3.5678@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<pdKdnSucPq3BNMTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4059b239$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Lucas Raab wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking to play a joke on a friend and I'm wondering if there's a 
>> way to
>> not show or hide the DOS console. My friend doesn't have python so I 
>> have to
>> compile it to an EXE.
> 
> 
> Use py2exe to compile Python programs to EXEs.
> 
> You would need to define what "hide" means to you to get a useful answer 
> to the first part of the question.  I would just click on the "close" 
> gadget in the upper right corner, if I wanted to "hide" a DOS console...
> 
> -Peter
I think there is a way of telling py2exe that the program is a windows
exe, so you won't see the console. You just have to invoque the py2exe
help. If I'm not wrong the option should be "--help" or "-h"


Regards,
Josef



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Mar  8 21:36:34 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:36:34 -0000
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <104q5jpg86q2udf@corp.supernews.com>
	<2004030819064420092%cs1spw@bathacuk>
Message-ID: <104qbdi22opnib8@corp.supernews.com>

In article <2004030819064420092%cs1spw at bathacuk>,
Simon Willison  <cs1spw at bath.ac.uk> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Our largest list at the moment is 4,000 addresses. The business we are in 
>(local online newspaper) means we are very unlikely to ever have more than 
>10,000. The answer certainly relates to sendmail, but I'm interested in any 
>experience other people may have with this kind of task. At the moment I'm 
>looking at using smtplib and just cycling through calling smtp.send() once 
>for every address but I'm not confident that that this is a particularly 
>efficient method. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it.
			.
			.
			.
You didn't mention how often you're doing this.  If it's 
only daily, there's no problem looping through smtp.send()
as you describe.  Really.  You're doing the right thing.

And good luck to you.  I have a soft spot for local news
outlets.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Wed Mar  3 09:11:16 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:11:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Python for Beginners
Message-ID: <20040303141116.38036.qmail@web8307.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hey,

A set of slides introducing folks who are new to
Python is available at
http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python-seminar-210204/slides/pySlide1.jpg.htm

Thought it'd be useful.

-Premshree Pillai
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 25 15:39:09 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:39:09 -0000
Subject: execute shell command pipeline
References: <8757b529.0403251215.29333930@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1066grdahs0f764@corp.supernews.com>

In article <8757b529.0403251215.29333930 at posting.google.com>,
Paul <Paul.Sue at telus.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm a Python newbie and I'm wondering how I can do the following Perl thing:
>
>open(F, 'grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 | cut -d: -f1 |') or die "blah, blah";
>$offset = <F>;
>( or $offset = `grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 | cut -d: -f1`; )
>
>in Python.  When I tried:
>
>offset = os.popen('grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 |cut -d: -f1').read()
>
>I get a whole bunch of error messages --
>
>grep: writing output: Broken pipe
			.
			.
			.
Python has too many answers to this.  I recommend you start with
  import commands
  offset = commands.getoutput('grep -b 2004 logfile | head -1 |cut -d: -f1')

-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Mar  4 04:05:05 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 01:05:05 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0403040105.4c8f7ea@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xad2x5wfm.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> PHP's web environment are
> database integration right there for you the moment you install PHP.

Ancient proverb say: One man's "database integration" is another's
"tight coupling". :)


From wberry at wberry.org.x  Thu Mar 11 17:39:31 2004
From: wberry at wberry.org.x (Will Berry)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:39:31 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>

Style guidelines and coding standards are the devil!  I would enjoy 
nothing more than reading an ACM paper entitled "Coding Standards 
Considered Harmful".  I've never seen a single real-life case where the 
coding standard was anything other than the personal preferences of the 
guy in charge.  No consensus, no objectivity, just consistently 
unreadable code.

I think nothing is more evil about coding standards than indentation. 
My code (not only in Python but in C/C++ and PHP as well) for whatever 
reason always ends up having about 6 levels of indentation in some places.

If the "standard" indentation is anything more than 2 spaces:
     for each little loop or conditional:
         you have to indent more and more until:
             long lines of code (such as calls or complex \
             mathematical expressions) have to span more \
             lines than they would if only the indentation \
             were shorter
else:
     you could simply wrap longer lines and complex \
mathematical formulas without indentation on the remaining \
lines but that just makes your code look like garbage


A close second is my undying hatred for same-line opening braces in C. 
When's the last time you saw Pascal code like:
PROCEDURE This_language_sucks(); BEGIN
   ...
END;

So I hate coding standards eternally, and the ISO 9000 certifiers that 
push them.  They only result in the majority of developers hating to 
write code.  My opinion is that if engineers cannot be trusted to their 
own coding styles, you should have caught that in the interview process 
and not hired them.  Open source projects have probably the best 
argument for coding standards for that reason.  Or, for large projects 
and open source projects, have an auto-styler run on all checked-in 
code.  That would at least do away with the spaces-or-tabs problem.

-- 
Will Berry
Co-founder, Second Brain website hosting
http://www.secondbrainhosting.com/



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 12:34:57 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:34:57 -0800
Subject: Best way to convert string a to utf-*
In-Reply-To: <c3efeb$tbc$1@news.web.de>
References: <c3efeb$tbc$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <c3fb5o$opg$2@news.service.uci.edu>


s = u"some unicode string"
utf_8_encoded = s.encode('utf-8')

Is this what you were looking for?

  - Josiah


From altis at semi-retired.com  Tue Mar 30 13:17:23 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:17:23 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <mailman.123.1080662628.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1Miac.27$iV.12091@news.uswest.net>

Are you looking for something dynamic and formatted like pydoc? If so, it is
included with Python, so you can run your own server and pick up the doc
strings in your own modules and packages. There is also a public server for
standard libs.

http://pydoc.org/2.3/

Here's an example for the os module.

http://pydoc.org/2.3/os.html

ka

"Adam T. Gautier" <adam_gautier at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.123.1080662628.20120.python-list at python.org...
> OK, First off I am new to Python but I am a convert.  I sat down and
> wrote two medium complexity applications in Python from scratch and
> learning the language in a few days.  If I were to do this in C++ and/or
> Java it would have taken atleast a month (Rember I was also learning the
> Python language).  But, I am sick of the documentation!  I don't really
> use too many Java example applications when I am writing in Java because
> (1.) I have been writting in Java since it was called Oak and 2.) I have
> the JavaDocs that give me a good grounding as to what the
> package/class/function/const is doing).  Is there anythin comperable for
> Python?  It is a shame that the only limitation of a great is
> documentation.  Is there a project that is trying to do this? Am I
> completely off my rocker? Is the Tutorial and Module documentation on
> python.org enough?  What would it take to develop an JavaDoc like
> repository.  I don't know much about the PyPI but is a requirement
> documentation?  What I think would be cool is a PyPI wiki that is
> dedicated to to documentation.  When a module is submitted it is sent
> through a dog auto-gen that generates wiki pages.  The wiki pages would
> be a reference page(s) (think javadoc), an example code page(s), and a
> tutorial thread page(s).  Just the refrence page would be auto generated
> and the example and tutorial page(s) could be created by the developer
> and/or the community in very wiki like style.  What do y'all think?
>




From peufeu at free.fr  Mon Mar 29 11:59:39 2004
From: peufeu at free.fr (PF)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:59:39 +0200
Subject: Tabbing probs
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<40682BD8.3040501@stackless.com>
	<40684458.9030507@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<mailman.64.1080575560.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opr5mutpv4b723ru@news.free.fr>


	I use tabs only. Can't stand spaces. I don't want to hit backspace 4 
times to indent back after the end of a block.
	When I open python files which use spaces, and I insert a code line into 
them, my editor will insert tabs. And here is a bug. Then I set it to use 
spaces. Then I open another files, which contains tabs. Argh. I'd like my 
editor to test automatically if a file has spaces or tabs. Anyone knows a 
good editor on linux which does this ? And also has good macros ?

	



-- 
Utilisant M2, le client e-mail r?volutionnaire d'Opera : 
http://www.opera.com/


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 04:39:28 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:39:28 +0000
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
Message-ID: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>


It just occurred to me that if decorators really catch on, there could
be cases where they are applied repeatedly to many functions, and
possibly with many decorators. Combine that with many (and variable
numbers of) parameters per function and readability could be seriously
hit.

In C++, the 'private', 'public' and 'protected' modifiers for class
members are not applied individually to every single member. This
always struck me as being a good thing, and it irritates me that in C#
and java every single definition needs to specify it's visibility.
Yes, there's a default, but you still often get a lot of definitions
that don't match the default. Some classes present a lot of public
member functions as their interface, for instance.

If I were inventing a language, I would allow more modifiers to be
moved away from the definitions/declarations to some kind of preamble.
In C++, for instance, it bugs me if I have to individually declare
each of a group of members to be static, or mutable, or whatever.

With that in mind, how about...

def [staticmethod, ...] :
  #  could use alternate keyword such as 'decorate'

  def a (a1, a2) :
    "this function is decorated"
    ...

  def b (b1, b2) :
    "this function is also decorated"
    ...

def c (c1, c2) :
  "this function is _not_ decorated"
  ...


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 21 10:06:17 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:06:17 -0600
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16477.44905.69126.894069@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> pyc files are a behind the scenes implementation detail of one
    >> version of the Python interpreter that are automatically generated
    >> and maintained.

    Jon> Huh??  .pyc files are an "implementation detail of the Python
    Jon> interpreter"?  Care to expound further?  'Coz that sounds pretty
    Jon> nonsensical...

As I mentioned in my previous post, the distiction between the Java VM and
the Python VM is that the former is delivered separate from the compiler and
other tools, while the latter is delivered afresh with each Python
distribution.  Guido would be free to eliminate the Python VM from the next
version of Python and instead directly interpret the abstract syntax tree
emitted by the compiler.  PyChecker and other tools which operate directly
with the bytecode would break, but Python applications should still work.

Think of it this way.  The Java virtual machine architecture is sort of akin
to the current Wintel architecture.  The Python virtual machine architecture
would like Microsoft shipping a new, possibly incompatible, CPU with each
copy of Windows.

Skip



From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Mon Mar 15 23:47:42 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:47:42 -0500
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <105d1nfbbjbul97@corp.supernews.com>

Rick Muller wrote:

...snip...

> 4. wxPython/PyOpenGL
>    Advantages: Seems to be a healthy, integrated solution to putting
>    an OpenGL window inside of a widget. Pretty widgets, and lots of
>    fancy features.
> 
>    Disadvantages: The OpenGL install still crashed under Windows. A
>    widget set that not many people use? Also requires the most amount
>    of code rewrite, although if it's the best option it isn't a
>    problem.
> 

This is the path we've chosen and it has worked out really well.  I am
surprised about the install difficulties, as we've put the code on several
systems and never had a problem.

-- 
Andy


From achaljalan at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 17:54:57 2004
From: achaljalan at yahoo.com (achaljalan at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Regular Expressions
Message-ID: <20040327225457.61257.qmail@web12826.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I have a string

        s =740446505        "O'HANLON, Benjamin"

i need to use one RE to convert it into 
  
       (740446505, "O'HANLN", "Benjamin"),

I am using python 2.3 and have been stuydin the various tutotrials and the 
howto websites for the past 3 days and haven't managed to find a solution.

Any help to get to the solution will be very very helpful.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Achal Jalan


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 17 14:22:30 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:22:30 -0600
Subject: Python style guidelines
In-Reply-To: <m2y8q4dgpw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
	<92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>
	<m2y8q4dgpw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <c3a8hj$jfc$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Heather Coppersmith wrote:

> On 12 Mar 2004 23:08:19 -0800,
> jcb at iteris.com (MetalOne) wrote:

>>Some guidelines recommend functions with only a single return
>>point.  I don't understand why this insanity got started.  At
>>one point it was recognized that multiple entry points into a
>>function was confusing, but why did it have to get extrapolated
>>to multiple exit points.  Upon entry to a function, I sometimes
>>like to verify that everything is ok before proceeding and if it
>>is not just get out.  Parameters can validated, resources
>>acquired, or whatever.
> 
> 
> It's that "resources acquired" part that messes people up.  I've
> seen it over and over and over again.  Memory leaks.  Dangling
> pointers.  Unrecoverable file handles.  Especially as functions
> that acquire lots of resources evolve over time and someone adds
> code to acquire another resource or detect another error condition
> and then doesn't find all the subsequent exit points.  It's less
> of an issue with languages with proper garbage collection, but it
> can be a real nightmare in (e.g.) C or assembler.  Unit tests that
> cover all possible resource leaks are difficult to construct
> correctly.  C++ partially addresses the problem with RIAA (if
> coders use it properly) and a hodgepodge of "smart" objects that
> do pseudo self-garbage collection.

Unfortunately, the way I've seen "single exit points" handled in complex 
functions is either to use a flag variable, which may or may not 
correspond to the temporary variable for storing the return value, or to 
enclose the whole function in an try: except block, raising a 
specialized exception to quit. Neither of these is too elegant in my 
opinion, and runs into the same problems seen with breaking out of 
deeply nested loops. (A suggestion for which on a recent thread, BTW, 
was to put them in a function and use return from multiple points).

Perhaps someone should write up a PEP:

def fun(params):
	#Function body
finally:
	#Cleanup code

Disavowing-all-responsibility-(Unless-Guido-likes-it)-ly'rs

-Rocco


From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Wed Mar 24 10:56:59 2004
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:56:59 +0000
Subject: best module for parsing a small xml file
Message-ID: <4061a11e$0$277$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

What's the best module for pasring a small xml file ?


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Mar 16 15:09:31 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:09:31 -0500
Subject: embedding opengl in wxpython window [Re: Advice needed: large
In-Reply-To: <Hf6dnQBZ5ZAy28rdRVn-sA@comcast.com>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>	<Ib2dnWvFavSMisrdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>	<mailman.38.1079450494.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Hf6dnQBZ5ZAy28rdRVn-sA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <40575EFB.8020104@rogers.com>

DH wrote:
...

> I never installed OpenGL or GLUT.  OpenGL comes with Windows.  In 
> python 2.2 everything worked fine.  Does the python 2.3 version not 
> weak link glut or something?

No version of PyOpenGL 2.x has, to my knowledge, ever included GLUT.  
Could be you installed it without noticing?  It's not a complex process 
after all, just drag a single DLL to a directory in the system path.  
I've been known to forget doing such things in the past.  That said, 
could be that something is importing OpenGL.GLUT from the Python side 
that wasn't importing it before... don't know what that would be, though.

<shrug>Otherwise engaged at the moment, so little time to explore.</shrug>

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz  Wed Mar 24 20:25:22 2004
From: guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz (Guy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:25:22 +1200
Subject: py2exe question
Message-ID: <c3tce0$4fn$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

I want to package a program (using py2exe) that utilises a number of 
python scripts so that people can't see or change the source code. But 
there is one python script containing some functions I do want the user 
to be able to change. Then when they run the program again these 
functions are available to the main program. Is this possible? How could 
I do it?

Guy


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 28 18:05:23 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:05:23 -0600
Subject: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
In-Reply-To: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E16@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>
References: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E16@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>
Message-ID: <16487.23091.967564.114832@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dustin> I've looked at it briefly (if I recall it is written in Perl).

Yes.

    Dustin> I may go back and investigate that more thoroughly but I still
    Dustin> wonder:

    Dustin> - Are there any Python based examples?

Dunno.

    Dustin> - Is webmin well designed? (Not trying to troll, just curious if
    Dustin>   it is well thought out or just a hack)
 
I don't know that either, but I suspect that with its plugin architecture
it's getting pretty mature.  I've only ever used it as a side-effect of
using NagMIN.

    Dustin> If any of you were to design such a beast (web based system
    Dustin> admin tool) from scratch which framework would you consider a
    Dustin> good match?

I'd give Quixote a look, though all the other Python-based solutions in this
space (Zope, Webware, etc) are probably all equally suitable.  It probably
depends mostly on what framework you're most comfortable with.

Skip



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Mar 16 12:48:18 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:48:18 -0500
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf7jxm49ap.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <i3zVAls/K72A089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <tyf7jxm49ap.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>,
Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>Imagine we have a "nested" keyword which is similar to "global", only
>it ensures that the name is found in the nearest enclosing scope. Now
>the above problem could be resolved by defining "inc" as follows.
>
>    def make():
>        x = 0
>        ...
>        def inc(n):
>            nested x
>            x = x+n
>        ...
>
>Works just like global would have done, only it is aware of the
>other socpes between local and global.
>
>> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com> writes:
>>
>> > It wouldn't do to make the whole (non-comprehension)
>> > for-loop a new scope, because that would make any
>> > variables assigned within the loop body local as well.
>
>Not if you have a "nested" keyword at your disposal.
>
>What situations would this not cover ?

   Far too few.  After the `nested x` statement comes
`nested nested x` and `nested nested nested x`, with the
accumulating maintenance headaches.  All so that programmers
can choose data names badly.

   Almost like running into `continue 17` within a nest of
loops.

        Regards.        Mel.


From llothar at web.de  Wed Mar 17 14:32:33 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 11:32:33 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
References: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403171132.6c3f7f22@posting.google.com>

katximan at gmx.net (Asier) wrote in message news:<4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45 at posting.google.com>...
> Is there any plan to make bindings of the future fox toolkit 1.2.x for
> python? New widgets, antialiased fonts and so on is a "Good Thing".

I don't think that Lyle will put more work in the project and it will
be a lot of work to get 1.2.x running. Even the ruby bindings that are
actively under development are still 1.0.x

If you don't like GTK or WxWidgets you should look at the FLTK
bindings.


From ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu  Fri Mar 12 14:13:25 2004
From: ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu (Aaron Deskins)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:13:25 -0500
Subject: Simple file line reading
Message-ID: <40520BD5.9090006@ecn.purdue.edu>

Hello everyone,
   I'm relatively new to Python and am trying to write some scripts. 
I've written a program (with the help of a friend) to search a text file 
line by line for a certain section of information and then process some 
of that information. This was on machines with Python 2.2.1 and 2.3.2.
   When I try the same program on another machine using Python 2.1.2 and 
another with Python 1.5.2, the script does not work. I've isolated the 
part of the code giving me problems below. The code below should just 
print out a number for every line. The actual code has some other 
commands to run at each line of the code. I just want to read each line 
of the file, run some commands on the contents of that line, and stop 
when the end of the file is reached.


import string
it = 0
for line in open("OUTCAR"):
   it+=1
   print it

The error message is:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "testr.py", line 3, in ?
     for line in open("OUTCAR"):
TypeError: loop over non-sequence

Thanks for your help.

-- 
Aaron Deskins
Graduate Student
Chemical Engineering
Purdue University



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 17 21:24:16 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:24:16 -0800
Subject: Start and control an extern program
In-Reply-To: <fP-dnYA7-_IR-MrdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<4051087D.1050409@zoran.com>
	<kp4qsr5x1i.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<c3516l$6i9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<kpfzc9dtpu.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<fP-dnYA7-_IR-MrdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c3b1e5$ao9$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> It wouldn't be portable to versions of Python that don't have threads, 
> one would suppose.
> 
> Have you encountered such?  Frequently?

The only platform I've run into that doesn't support threads is Cygwin 
(a couple years back).  I don't know if modern Python + Cygwin supports 
threads, so it may be worth checking.

On the other hand, every version of Python I've used on linux since mid 
2001 (Python 2.0 on linux kernel 2.4.x) has supported threads.

  - Josiah


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 13 12:06:12 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:06:12 -0500
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files
	inthe Directory
References: <mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1056ft6qik02gd3@news.supernews.com>


"Shalen chhabra" <shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Hey,
>
> Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the
files
> in the directory.
> For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python
program
> against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python
code
> instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be
cumbersome
> giving the argv of each file every single time.
>
> This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a
> flavour of python for this.

Given your reply to the attempts to help, I'm going to
assume that what you want is to separate the actual manipulation
of each file from the logic of determining which files to manipulate.

If this isn't what you want, please stop reading now and don't
bother to reply - it'll save both of us aggrivation.

The answer to the problem is the visitor pattern. It's a
standard pattern (see "Design Patterns" [GOF].)

The directory program is:

---------- DirBase.py ------------------------
# Basic classes for file maintenance

import os, stat, os.path

class DirectoryList(object):
    def __init__(self, pathName):
        self.dirList = os.listdir(pathName)
        self.pathName = pathName
        self.dirList.sort()

    def walk(self, visitor):
        for fileName in self.dirList:
            filePath = os.path.join(self.pathName, fileName)
            fileStatus = os.stat(filePath)
            if stat.S_ISREG(fileStatus.st_mode):
                visitor.doFile(filePath, fileStatus)
            else:
                visitor.doDir(filePath, fileStatus)

class cleanDirectory(object):
    def doFile(self, filePath, fileStatus):
        os.remove(filePath)

    def doDir(self, dirPath, dirStatus):
        DirectoryList(dirPath).walk(cleanDirectory())
        os.rmdir(dirPath)

def fetchFile(inDirPath, fileName):
    filePath = os.path.join(inDirPath, fileName)
    fileObj = open(filePath, 'rb')
    fileText = fileObj.read()
    fileObj.close()
    return fileText

def fetchTextFile(inDirPath, fileName):
    filePath = os.path.join(inDirPath, fileName)
    fileObj = open(filePath, 'rt')
    fileList = fileObj.readlines()
    fileObj.close()
    return fileList

def storeFile(fileText, outNameList, fileStatus):
    outFilePath = os.path.join(*outNameList)
    outFileObj = open(outFilePath, 'wb')
    outFileObj.write(fileText)
    outFileObj.close()
    os.utime(outFilePath,(fileStatus.st_atime, fileStatus.st_mtime))

def storeTextFile(fileList, outNameList, fileStatus):
    outFilePath = os.path.join(*outNameList)
    outFileObj = open(outFilePath, 'wt')
    outFileObj.writelines(fileList)
    outFileObj.close()
    os.utime(outFilePath,(fileStatus.st_atime, fileStatus.st_mtime))

------------------------------------------------------------

An example of how to use it is:

----------- MyFileManipulationProgram.py ---------------

# reorganize files captured from the *** web site

import os, stat, os.path
import re
from DirBase import *

def setUpOutdir():
    DirectoryList("outDir").walk(cleanDirectory())

class copyPicture(object):
    def doFile(self, filePath, fileStatus):
        head, tail = os.path.split(filePath)
        fileText = fetchFile(head, tail)
        storeFile(fileText, ("outDir", "pics", tail), fileStatus)

    def doDir(self, dirPath, dirStatus):
        pass

# precompile patterns used for multiple files
script = re.compile(r"<script>.*?</script>")
meta = re.compile(r"<META.*?>")
cmnt = re.compile(r"<\!--.*?-->")
cmnt1 = re.compile(r"<\!--//-->")
html = re.compile(r"\.html")

class copyWebPage(object):
    def doFile(self, inFilePath, fileStatus):
        head, tail = os.path.split(inFilePath)
        fileName, extension = os.path.splitext(tail)
        inFileText = fetchFile(head, tail)
        print ("path: '%s' head: '%s' tail: '%s' name: '%s' ext: '%s'\n" %
               (inFilePath, head, tail, fileName, extension))
        if extension == ".htm":
            inFileText = script.sub("", inFileText)
            #inFileText = meta.sub("", inFileText)
            inFileText = cmnt1.sub("", inFileText)
            inFileText = html.sub(".htm", inFileText)
            subPattern = "%s_files" % tail[:-4]
            inFileText = re.sub(subPattern, "pics", inFileText)

        storeFile(inFileText, ("outDir", tail), fileStatus)

    def doDir(self, dirPath, dirStatus):
        pass

def main(inDirPath):
    DirectoryList(inDirPath).walk(copyWebPage())

if __name__ == "__main__":
    setUpOutdir()
    main(r"c:\mydirectory")

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have any number of file fixup programs that use the
same DirBase.py program.

HTH

John Roth

> Thanks
> Shalen




From alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 16:50:40 2004
From: alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com (Alex)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:50:40 +0100
Subject: variable name using a for
References: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1049mi9ktod7o35@corp.supernews.com>
	<4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<xv51c.8749$qA2.552179@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <404501c1$0$24935$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Sean you rock!!!!!!!!
You solved my problem !
1000 thank you are not enough ! :)

Alex

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> a ?crit dans le message de
news:xv51c.8749$qA2.552179 at news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "Alex" <alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4044e177$0$24960$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> [snip]
> > so in my code:
> > for x in range(nbSujets):
> >   self.button1 = xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30, "B"+str(x) )
> >   self.addControl(self.button1)
>
> for x in range(nbSujets):
>     button_name = "button%d"%x
>     setattr(self, button_name, xbmcgui.ControlButton(50, 100, 40, 30,
> "B%d"%x ))
>     self.addControl(getattr(self, button_name))
>
>
>
>




From sean_berry at cox.net  Tue Mar 30 01:15:37 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:15:37 -0800
Subject: A couple of Python CGI questions
Message-ID: <9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309@fed1read03>

I tried getting mod_python to work but have had lots of problems getting it
running.  So, I have settled on using python cgi.

I have already got it going and it seems to run fast enough for me.

My questions are:
1.  Is there any way to access variables from within a string like perl cgi?
I have found that the best way for me to write html tables is to use a print
"""<blah blah blah>""" string.  That way I can write one print """, and then
write html as if I were writing an html file.  For example:
print """
<table border="0" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
    <td>This is cool</td>
</tr>
</table>
"""
I really like this and it is a lot like typing the following in Perl cgi:
print <<EOF
<table border="0" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
    <td>This is cool</td>
</tr>
</table>
EOF

So, is there any way to access variables from within the string, besides
using %s?  In perl, I just put the $variable in the string and it replaces
the varname with the value.

2.  Is there a good online resourse for pyton cgi?
3.  How do you collect request variables from forms sent to the python cgi
page, whether post or get?


Thanks very much for the help... I will continue to google for my answers.

Sean





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 11 11:27:51 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 11:27:51 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <c2q427$9ta$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <405035a3$1 at pfaff2.ethz.ch>,
Josef Meile  <jmeile at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I agree, those are good guidelines, but I don't agree with:
>
>- Don't compare boolean values to True or False using == (bool
>   types are new in Python 2.3):
>
>         No:  if greeting == True:
>         Yes: if greeting:
>
>What would happened if you do:
>
> >>> a='test'
> >>> if a.find('foo'):
>...    print "foo was found"
>...
>foo was found

>>> 'foo' in 'test'
False
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 09:04:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:04:58 -0600
Subject: examples of doing syadmin activities as a web app
In-Reply-To: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E15@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>
References: <D30BE1A2F9109A43BA989E2F5168405604A96E15@pobox.corp.rightnow.com>
Message-ID: <16485.35338.556301.749395@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dustin> I'm looking for an example of a well designed web application
    Dustin> used to do sys-admin type functions.  

I think the most popular tool in this space is WebMIN
<http://www.webmin.com/>.

Skip



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Mar 24 12:07:03 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:07:03 -0700
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org><tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl><mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org><1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com><mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org><tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><MPG.1acb54453fec4960989715@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>
	<1080150619.4947.6.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>
Message-ID: <01a101c411c2$6e797e00$6b1e140a@YODA>

gabor wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 15:16, Bill Rubenstein wrote:
> > ...snip...
> > > > other thing is, that in the projects i work on, there seems to be
> > > > very hard to do unit tests
> > ...snip...
> >
> > The ability to do unit testing should not be an afterthought.  It should be
> > considered as a major influence on the architecture of a project.
> >
> > If one cannot do proper unit testing, the architecture of the project is
> > questionable.
>
> ok, so let's use a specific example:
>
> imagine you're building a library, which fetches webpages.
>
> you have a library which can fetch 1 webpage at a time, but it is a
> synchronous library (like wget). you call him, and he returns the page.
>
> but you want an async one.
>
> so you decide to build a threadpool, where every thread will do this:
> look into a queue, and if there is a new URL to fetch, fetches it with
> his wget-like library, and saves the html page somewhere (and maybe
> signals something).
>
> and now the user who uses your library, simply adds the URL to fetch,
> and can check later asynchronously whether they are already fetched or
> not.
>
> could you tell me what unit tests would you create for this example?

Which unit tests you create depends on the structure of your library and what
APIs it exposes, but FWIW we test stuff like this all the time (although some
people might call our tests involving the other side of the network connection
"system tests" - I don't care as the point is that it detects regression and
ensures correct functionality).

The nightly batch fires up a very simple Python server (we pass in the host and
port to pind to on the command line) and we encode in the URLs commands telling
the server how to respond, e.g.

http://127.0.0.1:4000/cmd_timeout_10/foo.avi # instead of responding, sleep for
10 seconds to test client timeouts
http://127.0.0.1:4000/cmd_mb_1/bar.avi # return a 1 MB file
http://127.0.0.1:4000/cmd_redir_www.google.com/baz.avi # return an HTTP
redirect to www.google.com
http://127.0.0.1:4000/cmd_mb_2/cmd_dropconnafter_500k/bleh.txt # return a 2 MB
response, but drop connection after 500k bytes
http://127.0.0.1:4000/cmd_shutdown/biff.avi # shut down the server

This server is trivial to write - it just splits the URLs by '/' and interprets
any 'cmd_' portions and generates an appropriate response. Anyway, with
something like that in place you can then proceed to test all sorts of things
in your library. A lot of your tests won't require a server at all since they
will be testing how your library reacts to poor inputs, but for the tests that
do require a server you have a block of tests like:

ADDR = '127.0.0.1', 4000
StartListenServer(ADDR) # spawns the server process
# all of your tests that require a remote server to be present
StopListenServer(ADDR)

Whatever your file fetching tool does, you can test.

-Dave




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Mar 31 04:52:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:52:38 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4e4j9$dtp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> if a = 3 
>    print 'Yeah baby'
> 
> are still *unambiguous*.... yet the interpreter refuses to understand
> you......

Oh, the CPython interpreter understands you, it just doesn't like what 
you say.  I (and I'm sure the majority of other Python users) agree with 
the interpreter, your modified syntax leaves something to be desired.

You syntax also /makes ambiguous/ the following currently valid Python 
syntax...

if a == 3: \
     print "hello"

If we converted that to /your/ syntax, it would read...

if a = 3 \
     print "hello"

Which would get internally translated to...

if a = 3 print "hello"

I don't think it makes sense, and I wouldn't expect an interpreter to 
think it makes sense of it either.


> Theres no reason why a single '=' shouldn't be understood in a
> conditional....

Except that it would be a 'special case' when two different syntactical 
symbols mean the same thing.
"Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."
  - The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

> As for needing a ':' to allow statements after a 'def' or a
> conditional.... python already has the ';' for that... why insist on a
> ':'

Do you even read the docs?  Python does not have ';' to allow statements 
after a def, Python has ';' because it allows you to place more than one 
statement on a single line.  That is, it allows...
a = 1;b = 2;c = 3;

/not/ because it allows the absolutely ugly:
def fun(a,b): print a,; print b;

You should note that ':' is placed in syntactically different locations 
than ';', because they have syntactically different meanings.  ':' means 
"there is some scope that is being enclosed", while ';' means "that is 
the end of the previous statement".


  - Josiah


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Mar 18 06:01:18 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:01:18 +0100
Subject: float problem
In-Reply-To: <f20ea932.0403180226.16ca2224@posting.google.com>
References: <f20ea932.0403180226.16ca2224@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3bvfq$d1a$1@swifty.westend.com>

Tomasz Stochmal schrieb:
> The problem is that when I call float('713566671863.6850') I get
> 713566671863.68506 - when rounding to 4 becomes 713566671863.6851
> 
> Output becomes 7135666718636851 but it should be 7135666718636850 
> 
> Last digit is 1 but should be 0 which is wrong !
> 
> How do I do it ?

I think it' impossible because you operate at the border of the
IEEE754 float8 precision.

struct.pack("d", 713566671863.68506)
and
struct.pack("d", 713566671863.6851)

will yield the same result:
'\xec\xf5~j|\xc4dB'

which means that the two float literals are represented by the
same 64bit string. I you want arbitrary precision use Python's
long integers.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Mar 19 12:30:37 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:30:37 +0100
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
Message-ID: <405B2E3D.6040807@geochemsource.com>


Darabos Daniel wrote:

>And it surprised me a little. I was expecting to see 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.
>After some brainwork I now kind of understand what happens and I even
>found a solution like this:
>
Well, it is not suprising. In a lambda expression, everything after the 
: is symbolic. It is compiled,
not evaluated. You can use a named function instead of an unnamed one:

[GCC 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106] on freebsd5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> def p(x):
... print x
...
 >>> l = []
 >>> for i in range( 5 ):
... def func():
... p(i)
... l.append( func )
...
 >>> for k in l:
... k()
...
 >>> l
[<function func at 0x81a4f0c>, <function func at 0x81a4f44>, <function 
func at 0x81a4f7c>, <function func at 0x81a4fb4>, <function func at 
0x81ae02c>]
 >>>

You have different functions. However, in every function, the name 'i' 
is not a local name. (Python has only two levels: local and global.)
Here is another solution. However, it uses eval. Probably, it is not the 
fastest one.

def p(x):
print x

l = []
for i in range( 5 ):
l.append(eval("lambda: p( %s )"%i))

for k in l:
k()


Udv,

Laci




From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Mar 10 14:12:37 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 11:12:37 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>

Is there a more recent set of Python style guidelines than PEP 8,
"Style Guide for Python Code", by van Rossum and Warsaw, at
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html , which is dated July 5,
2001?


From shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 13 03:22:09 2004
From: shalen_itbhu at hotmail.com (Shalen chhabra)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:22:09 +0000
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files in
	the Directory
Message-ID: <Law10-F11d3qix8xR5f00010c98@hotmail.com>

Hey,

Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the files 
in the directory.
For ex:  I have ten files in a directory and I want to run a python program 
against all of these files, I wish to do the same using another python code 
instead of running each of these files one by one, which would be cumbersome 
giving the argv of each file every single time.

This can be easily done using a shell script but I just wanted to have a 
flavour of python for this.

Thanks
Shalen

_________________________________________________________________
Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! 
(Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/




From mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no  Tue Mar 30 13:57:04 2004
From: mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no (Marius Bernklev)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:57:04 +0200
Subject: Equality and identity
Message-ID: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>

In python, it seems like immutable objects are equal under both
equality and identity:

>>> 5 == 5
True
>>> 5 is 5
True
>>> "hei" == "hei"
True
>>> "hei" is "hei"
True

But that isn't true for tuples:
>>> (5,2) == (5,2)
True
>>> (5,2) is (5,2)
False

Why not?  Are tuples mutable in some way I've missed, or are there
other reasons for this behaviour?  To me, it seems natural to concider
(5,2) and (5,2) the same object, just like "5,2" and "5,2".


Marius
-- 
        "Who needs crypto WYCWLT?"
                -- William Newman


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 28 08:13:38 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:13:38 -0000
Subject: os module question
References: <pan.2004.03.28.04.16.59.189016@nowhere.net>
	<7vt9c.49985$Bg.5493@fed1read03>
	<c46bvt$527$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <106djs2148g9g1a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c46bvt$527$1 at news2.netvision.net.il>,
Miki Tebeka  <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote:
>Hello Sean,
>
>> os.system() always seems to return all output so I don't know why that
>> doesn't work.
>The return value is the exit status.
>
>Miki

... which leaves the question of what *will* satisfy Rasputin.
While I don't seem to have fortune(1) on any of my hosts today,
I believe
  import os
  print os.popen("fortune -f").read()
is it.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Tue Mar 16 16:15:23 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:15:23 +1100
Subject: list inheritance or delegation?
References: <78b6a744.0403161251.34fad544@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.16.21.15.20.326397@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:51:15 -0800, george young wrote:

> [python 2.3.3, x86 linux]
> I need an object that behaves much like a list, but has some additional
> features.  It seems that I can do this either by inheriting from type
> list, or by emulating list by defining __len__, __getitem__, and maybe a
> bunch of  other methods.  Thirdly, I could inherit from UserList, but
> that's deprecated now.
> 
> Inheriting from list would save me implementing a bunch of methods that I
> might want.  But if I inherit from list, how do I get access to the data? 
> E.g., I need a customized 'setitem' method that does the insert and then
> does some other things too.  With UserList, I could:
> 
> class mylist(UserList):
>    def __setitem__(self,i,y):
> 	self.dostuff(y)
> 	self.data[i]=y
> 
> but when inheriting from 'list', I'm not sure how to do this.
> 

 class mylist(list):
    def __setitem__(self,i,y):
 	self.dostuff(y)
 	list.__setitem__(self,i,y)

same with __init__ etc.

> I couldn't find anything in the docs about inheriting from builtin types,
> though it seems to be an encouraged practice.  It seems like if one is
> encouraged to inherit from builtins, there needs to be at least a concise
> description of the 'inheritable api' for each such type. E.g. does
> __init__ or __new__ handle initial values.  Maybe I'm just missing
> something obvious...
> 	
> So, I'm asking:
> 1) what are the issues/tradoffs between inheriting from list and emulating
>    it with my own methods referencing a list data member.

One drawback is you (may) have to override
all list methods, rather than leave them undefined. The slicing stuff is particularly hairy.

Simon.

> 
> 2) how do I get enough access to list's data to do the inheritance.
> 
> 3) I'm whining about lack of documentation for #2.
> 
> Thanks,
>    George Young



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 01:36:55 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:36:55 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>

A2. People that bitch about top-posting.

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:c4akqh$gml$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872 at fed1read04>,
> Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
> >
> >I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess
I'll
> >have to change that.
> >
> >I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in
the
> >language.
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk




From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Mar 20 23:42:47 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:42:47 GMT
Subject: lambda trouble
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58L0.0403191736410.14978@balu>
Message-ID: <b397c.868228$X%5.57128@pd7tw2no>

The problem, they say, is that a variable in a FOR clause can't bind a variable
inside a lambda abstraction. Fortunately the lambda operator itself doesn't
share this limitation, so you can make the variable visible to the binder in the
FOR clause by binding with a lambda and then evaluating the resulting
abstraction at the variable in question, like so:

>>> def p(x): print x
>>> list=[]
>>> for i in range(5): list.append((lambda j: lambda: p(j))(i))
>>> x=map(lambda f: f(),list)
0
1
2
3
4

Or, more concisely,

>>> def p(x): print x
>>> list=[(lambda j: lambda: p(j))(i) for i in range(5)]
>>> x=map(lambda f: f(),list)
0
1
2
3
4




From alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net  Thu Mar  4 09:29:59 2004
From: alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net (Alexander DEJANOVSKI)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:29:59 +0100
Subject: ANN : JyRetic 1.0RC4, Retic Admin 1.3 and Retic SOAP 0.3 released
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040304152945.01f4d128@127.0.0.1>

JyRetic 1.0RC4, Retic Administrator 1.3 and Retic SOAP Tester 0.3 were just 
released.
(http://retic.sourceforge.net)

Changes are :

  Retic Admin 1.3:

- New : popup menus have appeared to ease operations (try right-clicking on 
lists and trees), especially adaptor design.
- New : possibility to subscribe to get a notice on adaptor end, through a 
Jabber message (Email will come in future releases)
- Improvement : Refresh schedule is now threaded and non-blocking. You can 
then set auto-refresh on, while you'll be able to work on other tabs 
without being interrupted
- New : Images in Running/Terminated adaptors tracking let you know the 
execution status
- New : Terminated adaptors can be filtered according to end date/hour 
and/or status
- New : Partial internationalization support (french and english supported, 
through languages files) => All texts haven't been translated yet.

JyRetic 1.0RC4 :

- Bug fix : ToXML pipe didn't work because of an internal type mismatch
- Bug fix : Scheduler didn't want to add recurrent events if there were 
none already scheduled
- Bug fix : SQLSource didn't properly close the JDBC connection (which 
didn't prevent it from working)
- Bug fix : Jabber communications with the server are back up
- Improvement : SQLSink threaded inserts now use persistent connections 
overall adaptor execution (instead of opening/closing connection for each 
message)
- Some other small bug fixes I might forget.
- Improvement : Support for Xindice 1.1 (to use prior versions of Xindice, 
place the right libs in the javalib dir and modify jython.bat or jython.sh 
to include them in the local classpath)


Retic SOAP 0.3 :

Major bug fix that prevented from generating correct SOAP Envelopes on some 
SOAP implementations.




=============================================================
WHAT IS RETIC ?

Retic is an EAI Server.
The aim is to permit applications to communicate, even if they
don't speak the same language (which means transport protocols
as well as data structures).
This is done by building adaptors. An adaptor is composed of :
         - One source
         - Several pipes (process data transformations)
         - Several sinks (destination of data)
         - Several loggers (using log4j)
         - Preprocessors (executed only once before adaptor execution - for 
example => drop/create a table through a SQL query)
         - Postprocessors (executed only once after adaptor execution - for 
example => creation of an index on a table through a SQL query)

It is written in Jython and works 100% fine with only Java 1.3+ installed 
(although some libs like cocoon.jar and poi-block.jar might only work on 
Java 1.4, delete them in case you can't upgrade) on your system (jython 2.1 
is embedded in the releases).
It provides connectivity with : JMS, HTTP, SOAP, UDDI, FTP, Xindice, JDBC, 
Jabber, SMTP and more...

=============================================================



Enjoy !!


PS : I'd need some help to restart the Python version of Retic. Anyone 
interested in contributing should contact me. 




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 15:04:58 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:04:58 -0800
Subject: process wrapper?
References: <5ficndxjntWG4frd38DK-w@speakeasy.net> <1080539401.173853@yasure>
	<QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <donn-440440.12045829032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <QZ2dnbPGnqPo6_Xd38DK-g at speakeasy.net>,
 "Steve @ Waypath" <steve at waypath.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply. I haven't yet implemented a working spawnv call, so
> I'm not confident my tests are valid. Here's a sample:
> 
> ##########
> File: test1.py
> ------------
> import os, time
> if __name__=='__main__':
>  os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'python',['test2.py'])

OK, that can be fixed.

When the documentation says "path" for some functions, and
"file" for others (e.g., spawnvp), the distinction is that
"path" includes the directory specification, either absolute
or relative to the current working directory.  spawnv wants
a path, so the above doesn't work unless "python" is a file
in your current working directory.  To resolve this problem,
I would just write in the absolute path, or you may use spawnvp
instead.

But don't give it python's path.  Instead, at least consider
invoking the Python program file directly - put its path there
as the 2nd parameter, not python's.  Then your argument list
(the 3rd parameter) will be correct as written.  If you invoke
python itself, then you'll need to make test2.py the second
argument, directing python to interpret that file.  If you
decide to do as I suggest, test2.py will have to be executable
(chmod 755) and start with a line like "#!/usr/bin/python", as
appropriate for your system.  From there on, your test1.py
program no longer needs to know how test2.py is actually
implemented.


> ###########
> While test 1 is running, a ps (in another shell):
> # ps x | grep python
> 11726 pts/1  S   0:00  python test1.py
> 11727 pts/1  Z   0:00 [python <defunct>]
> 11729 pts/2  S   0:00 grep python
> 
> ###########
> I see this defunct thing with every spawnv test I try. The defunct process
> goes away when the calling process (test1.py, in this case) finishes. Where
> am I going wrong here?

It's a zombie!  UNIX leaves a dead process in the table as
long as its parent might come back and ask for the status.
It goes either when the parent gets its status with a wait
function (like waitpid()), or when the parent exits.

   Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From yan at NsOeSiPnAeMr.com  Mon Mar  8 18:53:49 2004
From: yan at NsOeSiPnAeMr.com (Kamus of Kadizhar)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:53:49 -0500
Subject: Unicode (Japanese) fonts in Images
References: <Xns94A6E2FA3BC91crawleystormntlworld@195.8.68.207>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.08.23.53.49.324002@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:12:32 +0000, Rich wrote:

> Am I doing anything obviously wrong?

I can't help you with the specifics, but make sure you're not confusing
UTF-8 encodings (strings) with unicode (integers).  That one's bitten me
in the butt more than once.

Also, pango might help, though I don't know if it will do what you need.

http://www.pango.org/

--Kamus

-- 
    o__      |  If you're old, eat right and ride a decent bike.
    ,>/'_    |                                       Q.
   (_)\(_)   |                                       Usenet posting`



From extern.mustafa.goermezer at volkswagen.de  Tue Mar  2 06:44:12 2004
From: extern.mustafa.goermezer at volkswagen.de (Goermezer, Mustafa (PROSTE))
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:44:12 +0100 
Subject: Converting office files to PDF
Message-ID: <EAF5C7D3591234449E203A5CBDD6DC1908BEEE@vwagwox00008.vw.vwg>

Hello,

with CoInitializeEx it is possible for word, excel or powerpont to run in
multiple instances. So you can build a webbased converter to convert Office
documents with spyce and mod_python (I have tested it, it runs fine !):

Example for multiple instances:

pythoncom.CoInitializeEx(pythoncom.COINIT_APARTMENTTHREADED)
myWord = win32com.client.DispatchEx('Word.Application')
myWord.Application.ActivePrinter="Printer name"
myDoc = myWord.Documents.Open("filename.doc", False, False, False)#please
see VBAWD10.CHM in Office directory
myDoc.Saved=1
myWord.PrintOut(True, False, 0, "postscriptfile.ps") ##please see
VBAWD10.CHM in Office directory
while myWord.BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0:
	time.sleep(1)
myDoc.Close()
myWord.Quit()
del myDoc
del myWord
Ghost() #ghostscript-command to convert created postscript file to PDF
pythoncom.CoUninitialize()

A ready script to convert files in commandline is on my homepage
www.goermezer.de.

Python rulez !!!

Mustafa




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar  4 15:42:00 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:42:00 -0800
Subject: Redirecting stdout and stdin
References: <c281ap$2l5$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <donn-BBA1DB.12420004032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <c281ap$2l5$1 at coward.ks.cc.utah.edu>,
 Matthew Thorley <ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote:
> I am working on a script that calls a program ssh in this case. The 
> script needs to be non-interactive so I need python to comunicate with 
> ssh. I am having difficult time opening a pipe to the program and 
> reading and writing output to it. I tried using popen something like:
> 
> ssh = popen('ssh user at host')
> if ssh[1].readline = 'something':
> 	ssh[0].write('password')
> 
> Etc...
> 
> 
> But everytime I run the thing stdout still shows up on the command line 
> and I get propmted to enter the password interactively.

As suggested in another followup, you may need some type of
"expect" interface to deal with ssh's password prompt, because
ssh needs a tty device there.  It turns off tty echo, and may
not be willing to proceed if the (pipe) device can't handle that
ioctl.  It also needs a distinct source for the password input,
because it's supposed to read up stdin input and copy it to the
remote sshd, so it will open /dev/tty for the password.

If this sounds like a lot of trouble, it's really worse than it
sounds.  Ssh can authenticate other ways besides passwords, and
that's really worth considering.  In that case you can use plain
popen (instead of popen2 which you evidently were using above),
and stdout will not show up on the terminal (as it wasn't in
your experiment above - that was stderr.)

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 28 18:18:02 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:18:02 -0600
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
	<000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
Message-ID: <16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Roger> I did, except the base implementation can't be called.  It hs
    Roger> this line of code in it:

    Roger>     self.connection.shutdown(1)

    Roger> ie it will close the connection after every response, no matter
    Roger> what.

Can you submit a patch to SF which abstracts that into its own method
("end_request" or something similar?) which can be overridden.

    ... [snip] ...

    Roger> It isn't that trivial.  See also previous comment about all the
    Roger> pieces of code that try to use connections etc at most once.

That sounds like the main problem.  Sounds like getting the shutdown() call
into its own overridable method would help a lot.

Skip



From peter at semantico.com  Fri Mar 12 04:50:52 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:50:52 +0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
In-Reply-To: <1051159aq8rifd0@corp.supernews.com>
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<1051159aq8rifd0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <405187fd$0$2803$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> Forth.  Lisp.  Tcl.

I was thinking of even less than that. Just define a few flow control 
things and get everything out of the objects. I expect it would look 
either like lisp or smalltalk.

There would only be one built in datatype, the message, and all the 
objects would chuck messages around. Thus the language as such would 
have a very limited syntax.

load Object.class;
load Stream.class;

x = new Object;
s = new Stream;

s.print x.to_string;

So we have declare variables, load classes and pass messages.


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 23 11:24:09 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:24:09 -0000
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org><tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list at python.org>,
Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>Piet wrote:
>> >>>>> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> (JG) wrote:
>>
>> JG> I feel honour-bound to point out that citing static typing (explicit
>> JG> static typing, in particular) as a means of creating more correct
>> JG> programs, to be one of the greatest contemporary myths of software
>> JG> engineering.
			.
			.
			.
>I'm not familiar enough with some of the more modern languages that use
>explicit static typing to know if they offer other advantages beyond helping
>the compiler be more efficient, but from experience I don't hesitate to say
>that the explicit type systems of Pascal/C++/Java seem to do more harm than
>good (meaning that if they provide some benefit, overall it's still a net
>negative due to the extra burden they place on the developers). For large
>projects in particular they seem to get in the way more and more as the project
>increases in size.
>
>-Dave
>
>

I want to call attention to this.  Dave and I appear to be in
agreement that, while common wisdom in our field is that C++,
Java, and so on, are serious languages that are the only 
realistic choices for large projects, we are both saying that
they're at a particular DISadvantage there.  If you have a
big job, you *particularly* need to look at Python (or Erlang,
or Eiffel, or ...)
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Thu Mar 18 08:59:28 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:59:28 -0300 (ART)
Subject: dictionary wart
In-Reply-To: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040318135928.12147.qmail@web61002.mail.yahoo.com>


Why don't you extend the dict type to have your custom behaviour?

>>> class mydict(dict):
...   def __init__(self, args, default):
...     dict.__init__(self, args)
...     self._default = default
...   def __getitem__(self, item):
...     return self.get(item, self._default)
...
>>> x = mydict({'a' : 1, 'b' : 2}, 'default')
>>> x['a']
1
>>> x['b']
2
>>> x['foo']
'default'
>>>

 --- Jesper Olsen <jolsen at mail2world.com> escreveu: > Does python have
a way of defining a dictionary default? 
> I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?
> 
> Intuitively I would imagine that
> 
> a={}
> a.set_default(my_default)
> 
> would do this -ie. a[my_new_key] should now return the the default
> value my_default instead of creating an exception. This would be
> similar to how it is done in other languages, eg. Ruby:
> 
> a={}
> a.default=value
> 
> But surprisingly, in python set_default is a dictionary method used
> for looking up a key...
> 
> Jesper
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 21:46:00 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:46:00 -0800
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3o7t9$29rm64$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>
> However, these engines (save maybe ZOE, about which I know next to
> nothing) are focused primarily on teaching, rather than game or
> application development.  Particularly given your legendarily high
> standards, I think you'll find that none are sufficient for your needs
> wrt building practical 3D apps in Python.  The collective wisdom on
> that would seem to be "wrap a C/C++ engine if you need any sort of
> interactive speed on a non-trivial application".

Yes, that is looking like the task before me.  I haven't found 3D anything -
app, engine, whatever - that is truly Python-oriented for its development.
Python is viewed by the 3D world as a scripting language, not a development
language.

> If you do find any other engines, consider adding them to the list
>     here: http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks
> (the formatting is messed up, but the information is often useful).

Thanks for this link.  Somehow, I have missed it in all the archive and
Google hunting.


-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

"Troll" - (n.) Anything you don't like.
Usage: "He's just a troll."



From Bill  Sun Mar 14 02:05:14 2004
From: Bill (Bill)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:05:14 -0800
Subject: List append help
Message-ID: <105811aq55rah53@corp.supernews.com>

I am trying to do an exercise in an online tutorial that but the tutorial
does not list the solution. Could someone please tell me why the "hireCrew"
method in the following code leaves me with a list that contains "None"? Be
nice, this is my first go at this, thanks!

class Organization:
    def __init__(self, argName, argLeader, argCrew):
        self.myName = argName
        self.myLeader = argLeader
        self.myCrew = argCrew

    def getName(self):
        return self.myName

    def setLeader(self, argLeader):
        self.myLeader = argLeader

    def getLeader(self):
        return self.myLeader

    def getCrew(self):
        return self.myCrew

    def hireCrew(self, argHire):
        self.myCrew = self.myCrew.append(argHire)
        return self.myCrew

x = Organization("MyOrg", "JB", ["TL", "BK"])
print x.getName(), x.getLeader(), x.getCrew()
x.hireCrew("PD")
print x.getName(), x.getLeader(), x.getCrew()


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Mar 22 08:37:46 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:37:46 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<tyfisgx6wfo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <105tr24i9fak784@news.supernews.com>

"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
news:tyfisgx6wfo.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch...
> Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> writes:
>
> > I've given some Python courses, and the first reaction when showing
> > a class with some methods is something like "so I guess when the
> > first parameter is not named 'self' it makes a class method?".
>
> Just as a point of information:
>
> I teach Python courses ... hands-on interactive style ... class size =
> 12 ... I've given 8 of these so far ... I have _never_ had this
> reaction. (80% of the students have previous C++ and/or Java
> experience, and usually someone asks "How do I do class/static
> methods?".)
>
> Maybe the reason nobody believes this is because, fairly early on in
> the treatment of classes, I point out that there is nothing special
> about the name "self", but I usually ask the students what they make
> of it, before offering any of my own comments.

Excellent class design! When I was doing classes, I found
one of the most important questions I could ask myself in
the after-the-class analysis was "what could I have said
earlier that would have dealt with this question / confusion?"

> > If easing the creation of class methods is so important, I would
> > prefer a more radical approach with a end result that would be more
> > intuitive to newcomers:
>
> While I agree that there is a lot to be said for Python being guided
> by the principle of least surprise, I would argue against letting
> Python be shaped by the expectations of people whose expectations have
> been moulded by Java and C++, as those expectations are typically
> fundamentally flawed, and certainly inappropriate to Python. (For
> example, most (Java and C++ people, and hence generally most) people
> expect there to be access control, and hundreds of getters and setters
> all over the place. We do _not_ want this in Python. Etc., etc..
>
> > - Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self"
> > in next versions of Python.
>
> That would be acceptable ...

Only if the intention is to move to making it a built-in. Otherwise there
really are people who use some other name than self (usually to save
keystrokes.)

> > - In a future major version of Python, 3 or 4, self becomes a keyword
> > and a first parameter named otherwise implies a class method (I
> > understand it could mean a lot of changes in code not using self).
>
> ... that would (IMHO) not.

John Roth




From halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com  Wed Mar 10 18:19:24 2004
From: halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com (leo)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:19:24 +1100
Subject: ta (was Re: cmdline args to a piped python prog)
References: <c2mdn3$12df$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
	<wzvfld3rl2.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <c2o7p5$24jh$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

thanks a lot, piet.

leo

"Piet van Oostrum" <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote in message
news:wzvfld3rl2.fsf at ordesa.cs.uu.nl...
> >>>>> "leo" <halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com> (L) wrote:
>
> L> hi there
> L> a python file can evaluate cmdline arguments like
>
> L> python myprog.py arg1 arg2 arg3...
>
> L> when i feed python with my program via terminal input like
>
> L> cat myprog.py | python
>
> L> how can i then specifiy the cmdline arguments arg1 arg2 arg3...?
>
> You could say cat myprog.py | python - arg1 arg2 arg3
> Then sys.argv[1:] contains the arguments.
>
> By the way cat myprog.py | python * is equivalent to python * < myprog.py
> No need for cat.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
> URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
> Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl




From salvatore at nolog.org  Thu Mar 11 18:46:31 2004
From: salvatore at nolog.org (Salvatore)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:46:31 +0100
Subject: Create static method dynamically
In-Reply-To: <c2qrr0$r2v$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c2qnop$ung$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>
	<c2qrr0$r2v$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c2qtnm$d91$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

As I always say, the beauty is in the simplicity :-)
Thank you very much Peter

Regards

Salvatore





From claird at lairds.com  Sun Mar 14 15:55:35 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:55:35 -0000
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
>I need a piece of code to extract as much info about OS, current status and
>hardware from a machine as possible ( at least, all available partitions and
>free space on these, CPU-speed, free/total memory and stuff like that ) at
>one given moment on Linux and Windows.
>
>Any hints? Can I call something in win32all on Windows or read some file on
>linux? I'm not sure where to begin.
			.
			.
			.
I was hoping someone else would answer this.

My impression is that there are dozens of answers to this.
I know I've seen quite a few such utilities advertised in
places like Freshmeat.  I haven't kept track of them at 
all.  

"... as much info ... as possible ...":  whoooo!  Usually
when a manager says that to me, I ask for how much he's 
willing to pay.  As it turns out, notions like "free 
space", "CPU speed", and so on are surprisingly poorly
standardized.  It's far from clear what they mean for any
particular platform.

Sooooooo, what I usually do is define my requirements 
carefully, and write up my own tool.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 29 00:36:47 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:36:47 +1200
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jon Franz wrote:
> What I found interesting was:
>  - native threads via locks on each object

Presumably this is bearable because of the lack of reference
counting, so that objects don't need to be locked and unlocked
at too frantic a rate.

But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.

>  - the stackless-ness

I wonder what effect that has on the ability of C code to
make callbacks into the interpreter.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From dmq at gain.com  Mon Mar 22 13:53:23 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:23 -0700
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.230.1079954390.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blbu505vrj35i52ari8a0uivja0pp7a9qu@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:19:46 -0800 (PST), Eyal Lotem
<gnupeaker at yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip motivation for changing the scope rules]

>A) Only get rid of the assignment-makes-local
>heuristic, by changing the meaning of the "global"
>keyword:
>
>def f():
>	global.a = 1 # Assigns to the module.a
>	a = 2 # Assigns to a local variable
>
>This allows accessing globals, and IMO serves for
>better explicitness about variables which is very
>desirable and consistent with instance variable
>access.

I'm not seeing much advantage over:
global a; a = 1
When you say "accessing" globals, we need to distinguish between
"referencing" and "setting".  Referencing globals is already
automatic. Setting globals needs special syntax.  For the few times I
need to set global variables, I'm not feeling much need for
streamlining the existing syntax.  Most of my use of global variables
is global within a named module.  In this case, I refer explicitly to
the module name.  e.g. M1.a = 1  So the improvement above would apply
only to the case where you need to set global variables in the main
module.

[snip how to migrate old code]

>B) Create a hierarchy of "locals" for nested scopes,
>which are accessible via an overloaded or new keyword
>thus:
>
>I)
>	b = 1
>	def f():
>		a = 2
>		def g():
>			global.a = 3
>			global.global.b = 4

Ugh!!

>II)
>	b = 1
>	def f():
>		a = 2
>		def g():
>			parent.a = 3
>			global.b = 4
>

What about aunts and uncles? :>)

I'm not feeling much need to set variables other than local or global,
but I can see where this might be useful to someone.  The tradeoff is
convenience for a few vs a mess from lots of users who will abuse the
flexibility.  (The same kind of tradeoff as with the GOTO statement.)
I would not give up *essential* flexibility for this reason, but we
are talking here of just a convenience.

If we want to set variables in intermediate scopes, I would prefer a
syntax like:

	b = 1
	def f():
		a = 2
		def g():
			global.f.a = 3
			global.b = 4

Of course, this means we also have to allow functions to have
attributes.

If we are going to make one more change in the scope rules, I would
like to see a grand simplification -- the current rules are good, just
extend them to *any* nested scopes.  If I set up a hierarchy of 7
nested classes, I should be able to reference variables at a higher
level without fully qualified names.  Again, this is just a
convenience.  Mainly, it would make teaching Python simpler.

-- Dave



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  5 10:17:51 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:17:51 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>
	<2s2c4053vpk3o3b0hauea23cb0q11ihl74@4ax.com>
	<c27ivn$3ao$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<404795ce.683812@news.muenster.de>
	<c2861t$kft$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3o9f40tpvn2bj29p5g23i4et9hv3qii4hu@4ax.com>
	<40483f1e.4458859@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <lc5h409s3och3vfnkapj33q1palf9mo8mg@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:50:50 GMT, m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless) wrote:

>[Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk>]
>
>>Easy solution - write your extender such that it takes the original
>>file in the constructor...
>>
>>  sys.stdout = ExtendedFile (sys.stdout)
>
>
>Hhm,
>
>>>> import sys
>>>> class MyFile(sys.stdout):
>...     pass
>...
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: file() argument 2 must be string, not tuple
>>>>
>
>what do you mean?
>
>mb - Martin Bless

I think I was being stupid. The stuff about 'constructor' and
'inheritance' seemed right when I hadn't thought it through, of
course. I was intending inheritence from the file class, but since
when do you specify a particular instance to 'inherit' from in the
constructor???

Probably I need a brain test!

The obvious alternative is to try to add an extra method to
sys.stdout, but this doesn't work out - I assume the dictionary of
attributes for file has been fixed.

Replacing sys.stdout.write doesn't work - how does the replacement
method call the original write once it has been overwritten.

Probably the nearest equivalent is to make a wrapper class, and
perhaps a factory function to create instances wrapping existing
files. Unfortunately, there isn't a UserFile class to make this
easier.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Sun Mar  7 03:49:26 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:49:26 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <qnkr7w5oxd5.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote:

> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)
>
> (1) deeply nested loops
>
> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>     if (/* some test */) goto END;
>
> END: /* continue */;

If you're not doing anything between the loops, I like to use a
generator:

def iindices(klimit, jlimit, ilimit):
    for k in xrange(klimit):
        for j in xrange(jlimit):
            for i in xrange(ilimit):
                yield k, j, i

for k, j, i in iindices(klimit, jlimit, ilimit):
    if test_fails(k, j, i):
        break

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From greg.invalid at capra.us.invalid  Wed Mar  3 02:33:46 2004
From: greg.invalid at capra.us.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:33:46 GMT
Subject: Why does my Tkinter GIF image disappear when inside a class?
In-Reply-To: <sqd1c.651728$JQ1.98881@pd7tw1no>
References: <sqd1c.651728$JQ1.98881@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <uTf1c.31257$hm4.15250@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

midtoad wrote:
> I'm trying to display a GIF image in a label as the central area to a
> Tkinter GUI.   The image does not appear, though a space is made for it. 
> Why is this so?
> 
> I notice that I can display a GIF image in the central area of a simple
> menu-bar app as shown below in the first code sample. But, when I set up my
> app with a class, as shown below in the second code sample, the image
> disappears.   
> 
> How can I correct this? I'm sure the answer would jump out at me if I
> thought more clearly about it...
> 
> thanks
> S
> 
> ---
> #basicmenu.py : displays GIF image
> 
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> 
> def callback(text):
>     print "called the callback!: "+text
> 
> root = Tk()
> 
> # create a menu
> menu = Menu(root)
> root.config(menu=menu)
> 
> filemenu = Menu(menu)
> menu.add_cascade(label="File", menu=filemenu)
> filemenu.add_command(label="New", command=callback('new'))
> filemenu.add_command(label="Open...", command=callback('open'))
> filemenu.add_separator()
> filemenu.add_command(label="Exit", command=callback('exit'))
> 
> helpmenu = Menu(menu)
> menu.add_cascade(label="Help", menu=helpmenu)
> helpmenu.add_command(label="About...", command=callback('about'))
> 
> img00 = PhotoImage(format='gif',data=
>              'R0lGODlhKwAQAJEAACWgA/3bYYNOGgAAACwAAAAAKwAQAAACfIyPqcsrD2M0'
>             +'oAJqa8h29yAkITiG3HWmKWiUrdtpseZdtcfmJSyjvf2Z5Q671u0wA9I+RtLj'
>             +'ZcwgfxglTTchjqS34JUrCUMQySOzih07Tb62eeneqSfU8vsmf65xZa8S/zI3'
>             +'dlLD5deRl1dlxdT4MYIA2TBJuSZ2iZkZVgAAOw==')
> 
> newLabel = Label(root,image=img00)
> t = str(img00.width()) + ' wide x ' + str(img00.height()) + ' high'
> newLabel.pack()
> Label(root,text='The image is\n'+t).pack()
> 
> mainloop()
> ---
> #basicmenu2gifobj.py : doesn't display image
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class gifMenu:
>     def __init__(self, parent):
> 
>         # create a menu
>         menu = Menu(parent)
>         parent.config(menu=menu)
> 
>         filemenu = Menu(menu)
>         menu.add_cascade(label="File", menu=filemenu)
>         filemenu.add_command(label="New", command=callback('new'))
>         filemenu.add_command(label="Open...", command=callback('open'))
>         filemenu.add_separator()
>         filemenu.add_command(label="Exit", command=callback('exit'))
> 
>         helpmenu = Menu(menu)
>         menu.add_cascade(label="Help", menu=helpmenu)
>         helpmenu.add_command(label="About...", command=callback('about'))
> 
>         img00 = PhotoImage(format='gif',data=
>               'R0lGODlhKwAQAJEAACWgA/3bYYNOGgAAACwAAAAAKwAQAAACfIyPqcsrD2M0'
>             +'oAJqa8h29yAkITiG3HWmKWiUrdtpseZdtcfmJSyjvf2Z5Q671u0wA9I+RtLj'
>             +'ZcwgfxglTTchjqS34JUrCUMQySOzih07Tb62eeneqSfU8vsmf65xZa8S/zI3'
>             +'dlLD5deRl1dlxdT4MYIA2TBJuSZ2iZkZVgAAOw==')
> 
>         newLabel = Label(parent,image=img00)
>         t = str(img00.width()) + ' wide x ' + str(img00.height()) + ' high'
>         newLabel.pack()
>         Label(parent,text='The image is\n'+t).pack()
> 
> class callback:
>     def __init__(self, text):
>         self.text = text
>     def __call__(self):
>         print 'Command is: ',self.text
> 
> ######################################################################
> 
> # Create GUI in root window for testing.
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     title='Menu test with GIF'
>     root = Tk()
>     #Pmw.initialise(root)
>     root.title(title)
> 
>     #exitButton = Tkinter.Button(root, text = 'Exit', command =
> root.destroy)
>     #exitButton.pack(side = 'bottom')
>     gifMenu = gifMenu(root)
> 
> 
>     root.mainloop()

Short answer:
Replace img00 with self.img00

Longer answer:
It's a wart (as far as I'm concerned) in Tkinter. As soon as code 
execution falls out of __init__ (where img00 was created), the variable 
img00 is destroyed, hence Tkinter can't find the image. So you need to 
find some way of keeping the image persistant. Like making it an 
instance variable, like above, or making it global, etc.

greg


From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar 25 05:07:58 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 02:07:58 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403240124.2a80e784@posting.google.com>
	<4ql8c.42261$ct5.13462@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403250207.41600412@posting.google.com>

> > What might be nice is if longs had methods for converting to and from
> > bytestrings.  
> 
> I was thinking the same.  How about something like:
> 
>    bigNumber = long(bigNumberString, 256)
> 
>    bigNumberString = bigNumber.tostring()
> 
> The string->long conversion treats a big-endian byte string as "base 
> 256", and converts it to a non-negative integer.
> 
> The long->string conversion would only work on non-negative integers. 
> It's 'inspired' by the array module's "tostring()" method, which returns 
> a similarly low-level string.
> 
> Big-endian seems the common way to do this, at least in cryptography, in 
> the common ASN.1 encodings, and in the libraries I've seen.

If this is something you want, file a feature request on SF.


Raymond


From python at g2swaroop.net  Fri Mar  5 16:11:49 2004
From: python at g2swaroop.net (Swaroop C H)
Date: 5 Mar 2004 13:11:49 -0800
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
Message-ID: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

	I have a written a book on Python which serves as a tutorial or
guide for anyone who wants to learn Python. It specifically targets
beginners but experienced programmers can benefit a lot with the
special notes for them.

The chapters are :

Contents at a Glance

   1. Introduction
   2. Installing Python
   3. First Steps
   4. Basics
   5. Operators and Expressions
   6. Control Flow
   7. Functions
   8. Modules
   9. Data Structures
  10. Problem Solving - Writing a Python Script
  11. Object-Oriented Programming
  12. Input/Output
  13. Exceptions
  14. The Python Standard Library
  15. More Python
  16. What Next?
  17. Appendices
          * Free/Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS)
          * About

The book is located at :

http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/


During my first brush with Python, I felt there was a need for a good
introductory guide to Python, and recent discussions on comp.lang.python
reinforce that. I hope this book helps fill that void.

This is my first attempt at writing anything so huge and so I am looking
forward to your suggestions and criticisms so that I can further improve the
book.

Thanks,
Swaroop C H
www.python.g2swaroop.net


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Mar 15 06:47:49 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 11:47:49 GMT
Subject: Generating images on-the-fly
Message-ID: <c34555$m93$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

I'm looking for code to generate images on-the-fly using whatever imaging
toolkit du jour. 

This is to build a defense against blog comment auto-spamming. 

TIA. Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  2 14:09:00 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:09:00 +0100
Subject: py2exe odbc:cannot import dbi module
References: <f00811ba.0403020804.27a9b1dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wu63jcc3.fsf@python.net>

mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis) writes:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to create an executable with py2exe, and it uses the odbc
> module. The script runs fine until I use py2exe on it and run the
> .exe. Then I get:
>
> --
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "dbmod.py", line 2, in ?
>   File "odbc.pyo", line 9, in ?
>   File "odbc.pyo", line 7, in __load
> odbc: Cannot import dbi module
> --
>
> dbi.dll is in the dist folder, and so is odbc.pyd.
>
> Does anyone know how to solve this problem?

It seems you have to first explicitely import the dbi module before the
odbc module can be imported.

"""
import dbi, odbc
"""

py2exe doesn't know that dbi.dll is a python extension - it is only
found as binary dependency.  And you should not (must not?) distribute
odbc32.dll, which is also copied to the dist folder.

In py2exe 0.5, you *should* be able to specify
   dll_exludes = ["odbc32.dll"]
but this doesn't seem to work.

Thomas




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 22 03:03:58 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:03:58 +0100
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.136.1079633391.742.python-list@python.org>
	<480e9240.0403181909.741abfa8@posting.google.com>
	<c3i6at$ei$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<105skus763ms4bf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c3m6lf$hmh$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Jason Sewall wrote:

> It's affine for the one-line-pair case, but the full algorithm actually
> uses n line pairs to describe a nonlinear transformation. Since the

Would you care to post a small driver program (if feasible)? I'd like to try
the "complex numbers as points" approach on it.

> transformations are weighted for each pair, the matrix solution doesn't
> cut it for the general case.
> 
> Of course, since I didn't mention it, you wouldn't have known that -
> sorry.

No problem.

Peter




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 27 21:33:50 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:33:50 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>


"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:406635AB.9050803 at mlug.missouri.edu...
> I'm not terribly familiar with the concept of prototypes although I
> believe I understand the basic meaning and I have worked in languages
> which do use prototypes (although not called that).
>
> Aren't there many times when it is usefult to work with classes where
> you do not want an instance to exist? Such as multiple level of
> subclasses where code is kept easily readable by putting it on a the
> appropiate class for that function alone. Often useful when you'll be
> using many similar but not identical objects? I can see how it'd be
> useful to be able to define new methods on an object, or edit the
> methods on an object but I can not see the purpose to removing classes
> altogether. Am I correct in my impression that with prototyping you must
> instantate an object to define it's structure? That would seem wasteful
> and cluttering of the namespace. Also he way your prototypes read appear
> less clear to me than a class definition. I fear that you'd wind up with
> people creating an object.. coding random stuff.. adding a method to
> that  object.. coding more random stuff.. and then adding more to the
> object.

It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.

On the other hand, there are application areas where that is
exactly what you need: I've already mentioned interactive fiction,
and there are undoubtedly others.

I'd like to play around with a prototype based language to see how it
works, although for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, I won't use
Prothon. I'd be using IO if they had a windows executable installer,
rather than requiring me to compile the silly thing.

John Roth




From ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com  Thu Mar  4 01:24:33 2004
From: ng4rrjanbiah at rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 22:24:33 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <abc4d8b8.0403032224.7a19379b@posting.google.com>

[Well, this time I have decided to troll -- all because of prolong
irritating ignorant posts/crossposts. And, this is intentional
crosspost.]



dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) wrote in message news:<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c at posting.google.com>...
> Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote...
> 
> > When it comes to dynamic, DB driven sites, PHP is the only way to go. 
> > Python is not even close to being suited for this task. PHP claims to be 
> > a general-purpose language, but I do not know anyone who uses it for 
> > anything other than dynamic Web programming.
> 
> Like everyone else who has replied, I seriously question how much
> experience you have with the multitude of Python web environments
> available. As an objective, point-by-point look at your specific
> example of somewhere PHP is strong, here's my reply:
> 
> [PS: I still use PHP regularly, albeit only for quick unimportant
> hacks that won't exist in 6 months]

   So.. you don't have any important works :-/

> - Nearly all the PHP code I have seen (including various large web
> sites) fails to handle error conditions, and will run amok given a
> down DB server, bad filesystem permissions, or bad inputs. I have had
> personal experience, on more than one occasion, of an error condition
> in someone else's PHP code causing a large amount of damage to a
> dataset.

   Good news. Well done PHP!

> - The equivalent Python code will almost never do that. Thanks to the
> religious throwing of exceptions, well written standard libraries, DB
> adaptors, and so on, the worst Python code has a MUCH better chance of
> getting stopped in it's tracks just as a fault occurs.
> 
>    py> open("/tmp/foo","w").write(123)
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only character buffer,
> not int
> 
> 
>    [22:15:14] [cape:4:dw]$ php4 <<e   
>    > <? fwrite(fopen('foo','w'), 123); ?>
>    > e
>    [22:15:16] [cape:5:dw]$ cat /tmp/foo 
>    [22:15:17] [cape:6:dw]$ 
> 
> Can you tell me exactly what the PHP fwrite function did when I passed
> it an integer? Can you tell me how many PHP programmers test
> "(strlen($to_write) == fwrite($fp, $to_write))"?


   Ok...understand. idiot-proof?

> - In the specific instance of database connectivity, Python is far
> superior, in terms of intuitiveness, security, safety, and so on.
> Python database APIs are built in a way that protects you by default.

   Perhaps, idiots' own language?

> - PHP provides no intuitive default support for many common DB
> operations. Compare the following messes:
> 
>    py> l = MySQLdb.connect()
>    py> c = l.cursor()
>    py> user_input = "%t%"
>    py> match_count = c.execute("SHOW DATABASES LIKE %s", ( user_input
> ))
>    py> print match_count, "matches:", [ x for x, in c ]
>    1 matches: ['test']
> 
> 
>    <? $s = mysql_connect(); 
>    $user_input = "%t%";
>    $query_sql = sprintf("SHOW DATABASES LIKE \"%s\"",
>       mysql_real_escape_string($user_input, $s));
>    $query = mysql_query($query_sql, $s);
>    $matches = array();
>    while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($query, MYSQL_NUM)) $matches[]=
> $row[0];
>    echo sizeof($matches), " matches: ", var_export($matches, true);
> 
> 
> Tell me, of these two popular examples of bad code in both languages,
> which is the more intuitive to read, which is the more elegant to keep
> secure, and which would you prefer to be reading, and modifying in 18
> months time? [In this case, which was the quicker to create? The
> Python example. The PHP counterpart has a syntax error somewhere, I
> care not where.]
> 
> How many different ways can you dream up the same functionality in the
> PHP example? (mysql_escape_string, <random_db_api>, etc.)
> 
> How likely is it that the developer you hire to take over development
> of either snippet of code will understand the concept behind it? I
> can't even think of another way of doing database query in Python,
> without using the low-level interfaces, which is just insane.
> 
> We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
> for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
> obvious choice, and officially endorsed?
> 
> How easy is it to improve on both these examples to add proper error
> handling? Again, Python wins hands down for elegance, conciseness, and
> obviousness.

   Yes, agreed. Idiots' language.

> - Python has a religious following of thousands, many of whom found
> freedom through it's restraint, unified path, and downright beauty.
> The result is a long tradition of structured, well written code.
> Python has roots in academia, and started life with a defined purpose,
> and a BDFL who knew what he was doing.
> 
> - PHP, "the web designer's ideal first language", started out life as
> "a collection of perl scripts" (that says it all really), then ported
> to C, then hacked and added to until it was the great swiss army
> monolith that it is today. PHP has never had a clear, publically
> documented development path, or indeed any form of structure or
> organisation, past the menu system of PHP.net

   LOL! Joke of the millennium.

> PHP developers tend to have started life using Dreamweaver, happy to
> accept the first solution to a problem that comes their way, and care
> little about technical merit. Every person (including at the time,
> myself) who I know that uses, or used PHP, did so because it allowed
> them to make things look beautiful and dynamic very quickly.

   Yet another good joke.

> - Python gurus, when asked how to make something work, will often
> appear nasty and horrible, telling you you're doing entirely the wrong
> thing and you should go back to the drawing board. Much like the hot
> sting from a smack of a father's hand, this is good, not bad. It is
> there to direct and discipline you, and improve the way you think.
> 
> - PHP gurus tend to be experienced web developers, they'll be able to
> look flash and give you an answer on the spot, but that answer will
> only further lead to the demise of any structure your coding ever had.

   Huh??

> - Python tends to be slow, but slow compared to what? The laptop I
> type this message on has a 2ghz processor. It cost less than ?1000. It
> is the cheapest laptop money can buy in the UK. I run Python scripts
> on multi-gigabyte datasets on a daily basis on this machine. I have
> never considered the scripts to be 'slow'.
> 
> - PHP is very light on CPU, memory, and so on. I earn a modest amount
> for a 20 year old, even by Northern Ireland standards. I can't see how
> I would ever need to resort to PHP because I couldn't afford the
> hardware to run a complex Python-based site intended for viewing by
> thousands.
> 
> 
> Personally, I find the average PHP codebase to be akin to a television
> station such as MTV: well presented, streamlined, professional
> looking, but in terms of content, nothing but meaningless, mindless
> shite. On the other hand, reading certain Python code is more like
> reading a beautifully typeset hardback novel: black and white - ugly
> to some, but functional, educational, structured, meaningful, etc,
> etc.
> 
> What interests you more - earning money through thoughtless,
> effortlessly produced rant-syntax that no-one will ever want to look
> at again, or the daily challenge to produce something that will
> perfectly fulfill it's intended function, at the cost of a little
> time, a little brainpower, and a little discipline.
> 
> I could go on, but I think these points alone are the main reasons I
> use Python. At the cost only of speed, it protects me, teaches me,
> profits me, and inspires me to continue being the professional geek
> that I am. :)

   comp.lang.php is not the right place for you to show your
stupidity. You should consider stripping headers as many other PHP
ignorants (<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=403fa54b%40news.zianet.com>)
did before throwing your thoughts.

   HTH. HAND.

-- 
 From comp.lang.php
 "Success is not what you achieve, but it is what you die for"
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com


From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Tue Mar 30 14:24:32 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:24:32 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <20040330192432.GA20081@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>

# wxPython would be my example of some of the worst (non-existant) 
# documentation available for Python while PyGame would be my example of 
# some of the best.

Yeah, I agree that pygame's docs are really good.  I enjoy bouncing
around in those when I am working with pygame.  wxPython is just bad
in that its docs are sprinkled throughout the wxWindows docs and
there isn't a central place to go when you want to know How To Do
Something that is not explicitly treated by the wxWindows docs.

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From gustabares at verizon.net  Thu Mar  4 15:32:51 2004
From: gustabares at verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 12:32:51 -0800
Subject: Debugging Python extensions
Message-ID: <c42b7031.0403041232.2941952@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

I'm writing some Python extensions in C under Windows using Visual
Studio .NET 2003. I want to be able to debug my extensions using .NET.
I'm not very clear on the exact process of doing this.

So far I have compiled a debug version of the 'pythoncore' project
that is located in the Python sources. This has produced the
python23_d.dll which I will use to link with my pyd.

I have a few questions after this step:

1. Do I need to compile my own version of Python2.3 to debug my pyd?
2. Do I have to name my debug pyd as filename_d.pyd?
3. Does the init function need to be named initfilename_d?

I understand that .NET 2003 is not "supported" (I believe only VS6 is)
but I would think using .NET 2003 would not be much different aside
from converting the projects to the new format.

Thanks,
Gus


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Mon Mar  1 14:23:35 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:23:35 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
In-Reply-To: <c1vsqe$6rh$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vqkk$1ui$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<6uK0c.4347$mx4.106055@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vsqe$6rh$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <R4M0c.4365$mx4.107234@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Aahz wrote:
> As Michael Hudson said, it doesn't work that way in Python, because all
> Python objects are global (and I mean truly global here, not just module
> global).  Essentially, all objects are heap objects that can be traced
> by crawling through Python's internals.

I understand that.  RAII is often used when speaking of scoped 
variables.  In my case I was talking about global scope in main thread.

> Right.  As I said, you have to use the ``thread`` module directly; you
> can't use ``threading``.

But even if I use "thread", I have no way to put the functionality in 
one class if I want access the members in the running thread.

>>I just want a way to garantee that all my threads are cancelled when the 
>>main thread is finished.
> 
> So hold references to them and call the ``cancel()`` method yourself.

That's a possible solution.  Make a custom Thread class with a cancel 
method and with all instances registered somewhere.  At the end of the 
main thread, I call something to cancel all these threads.  There's 
however some problems with that solution:
- Parent threads need to be cancelled before their children threads.
- It only works at the end of the main thread; it cannot be used at the 
middle of an appplication.
- The cancellations are not automatic (I guess there's a way to do it by 
overriding something like exit, anyway...)

All these problems are solved by using RAII with the Canceller class I 
shown in a previous message, so I prefer using this solution.  In fact, 
what I would really need, is a mechanism, and I don't know if there's 
already one, to disable ref-counting of a thread object in its 
corresponding thread, so that I could provide a single class for 
cancellable threads.

Regards,
Nicolas



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 18 21:32:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:32:52 -0500
Subject: tkinter, threads and asyncore together
In-Reply-To: <mailman.143.1079650121.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.143.1079650121.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hvednUiAWu1JxsfdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

duane voth wrote:

>>#to control asyncore
>>while 1:
>>    asyncore.loop(.1)
>>    if not fromgui.empty():
>>        #handle messages from GUI
> 
> 
> The above doesn't work for me - asyncore.loop(<anything>) always blocks.

 From the asyncore docs:

    loop( [timeout[, use_poll[, map]]])

    Enter a polling loop that only terminates after all open channels
    have been closed.

Seems to me that the behaviour is as expected.

-Peter


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Mar 18 12:51:36 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:51:36 -0000
Subject: ConfigParser and Unicode
References: <kbl6c.29656$wg.22030@okepread01>
Message-ID: <c3cnj9$lt2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>


<thehaas at binary.net> wrote in message news:kbl6c.29656$wg.22030 at okepread01...
>
> Obviously, 'Gr??'!='Gr\xfc\xdf' .

>>> 'Gr??' != 'Gr\xfc\xdf'
False




From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Mar  5 15:17:50 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:17:50 -0800
Subject: function to return a list of all methods for an object
References: <xL32c.531$No1.31862@news.uswest.net>
	<4048d717$0$277$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <Qb52c.551$No1.39359@news.uswest.net>


"F. Petitjean" <littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr> wrote in message
news:4048d717$0$277$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:39:23 -0800, Kevin Altis <altis at semi-retired.com>
wrote:
> > I need a way of getting a list of all the methods for an object. I want
the
> > unbound methods for the objects class for some further manipulation.
>
> > ... I came up with
> > a much simpler version that uses dir(), but would like a sanity check
before
> > committing to it. Perhaps there is a better way? This only needs to work
> > with Python 2.2 and later, so I won't mind say "Doh!" if I've missed the
> > obvious simple solution and someone points out my stupidity.
> >
> >
> > import types
> > import pprint
> import inspect
> help(inspect.getmembers)
>
> >
> > def getMethods(object):
> #  don't use object !
> >     methods = []
> >     names = dir(object.__class__)
> >     for name in names:
> >         m = getattr(object.__class__, name)
> >         if isinstance(m, types.MethodType):
> >             #print "method:", m
> >             methods.append(m)
> >     return methods
> >
> >
> Try it :
> b = inspect.BlockFinder()
> inspect.getmembers(inspect.BlockFinder, inspect.ismethod)

Awesome! Looks like I need to do a little refactoring if I'm going to deal
with the list of tuples result, but in the meantime I can do a list
comprehension like this in in the test so I still have a list of unbound
methods.

methods = [t[1] for t in inspect.getmembers(e.__class__, inspect.ismethod)]

Thanks for pointing out inspect,

ka




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Mar  3 15:50:51 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:50:51 -0600
Subject: pythonservice -register
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403030733.1cb50edc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <S_qdnSGTc4a32Nvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

On my machine (Windows XP Pro also ActivePython 2.2)
I get the following:

Registering the Python Service Manager ...

After that everything works as documented.

-Larry


"Olaf Meding" <OlafMeding at compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:9e5ea2c4.0403030733.1cb50edc at posting.google.com...
> What is the pythonservice.exe for?  What does pythonservice.exe really
> do?
>
> I installed and am using ActivePython (on Windows XP).
>
> Working on writing a Windows service in Python.  The "Python
> Programming on Win32" book says I should first register the
> pythonserive.  This does not seem to work (see error below).  However,
> the books SmallestService seems to run anyway.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Olaf
>
> *** Here is the error: ***
> C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32>pythonservice /register
> Registering the Python Service Manager...
> Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
>
> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an
> unusual way.
> Please contact the application's support team for more information.




From http  Tue Mar 30 03:44:07 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 00:44:07 -0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <mailman.104.1080631893.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7va7mi0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:
> No, don't rewrite it! :D I have even *more* requirements, which are
> mostly in my code but not really documented, and some are changing. I'm
> working on a more scalable solution, since I then need to apply the same
> code to a 20-million-record DB. I'm doing fine--just wondered in
> particular about ways to optimize that single step. Thanks for your
> help.

Maybe you're at the point where you should use a real database
(e.g. MySQL) to hold that kind of data, instead of rolling your own
and messing with it on the fly.


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Fri Mar 19 17:20:36 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0000
Subject: tuples or lists
References: <3064b51d.0403161208.78350dac@posting.google.com>
	<c37nmd$58r$00$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5mt52.mo1.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <c37nmd$58r$00$2 at news.t-online.com>, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
>> Is "use tuples instead of lists, when possible" a good rule?
> 
> The party line is: "use lists for similar items, tuples for
> different items". If you come from a C++ background, tuples
> are mostly used what structs are used for, and lists are used
> in the std::vector context.

I might or might not agree with this depending on the context. In most
cases, I would use a dictionary in Python where I would use a struct in C++
unless the struct was small and obvious, because the naming of values aids
in comprehension. I typically use tuples for:

 - points
 - ranges
 - the % operator (by design)
 - ordered lists of key/value pairs (such as for a SELECT/OPTION list)
 - groups of function arguments

None of these usages necessarily involves different items, but the last
three often do. In general, I really don't like the look of the
('singleton',) tuple, so in functions expecting sequences, I tend to use
lists for consistency.

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From gry at ll.mit.edu  Tue Mar 16 15:51:15 2004
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (george young)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 12:51:15 -0800
Subject: list inheritance or delegation?
Message-ID: <78b6a744.0403161251.34fad544@posting.google.com>

[python 2.3.3, x86 linux]
I need an object that behaves much like a list, but has some
additional features.  It seems that I can do this either by
inheriting from type list, or by emulating list by defining
__len__, __getitem__, and maybe a bunch of  other methods.  Thirdly,
I could inherit from UserList, but that's deprecated now.

Inheriting from list would save me implementing a bunch of methods
that I might want.  But if I inherit from list, how do I get access
to the data?  E.g., I need a customized 'setitem' method that does
the insert and then does some other things too.  With UserList, I could:

class mylist(UserList):
   def __setitem__(self,i,y):
	self.dostuff(y)
	self.data[i]=y

but when inheriting from 'list', I'm not sure how to do this.

I couldn't find anything in the docs about inheriting from builtin
types, though it seems to be an encouraged practice.  It seems like if
one is encouraged to inherit from builtins, there needs to be at least
a concise description of the 'inheritable api' for each such type.
E.g. does __init__ or __new__ handle initial values.  Maybe I'm just
missing something obvious...
	
So, I'm asking:
1) what are the issues/tradoffs between inheriting from list and emulating
   it with my own methods referencing a list data member.

2) how do I get enough access to list's data to do the inheritance.

3) I'm whining about lack of documentation for #2.

Thanks,
   George Young


From wmgill at gcgroup.net  Thu Mar  4 14:42:07 2004
From: wmgill at gcgroup.net (William D. Gill)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:42:07 -0500
Subject: python classes
References: <f2335$40475626$42a655ea$12158@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
	<c27mrt$kge$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<9f1bd$40476c26$42a655ea$13320@msgid.meganewsservers.com>
	<c27t0v$fhn$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <d8996$404786dc$42a655ea$14999@msgid.meganewsservers.com>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c27t0v$fhn$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> William D. Gill wrote:
>
<<<<<------SNIP----->>>>>
> > class MyClass:
> >     def __init__(self, id=0000):
> >         self.data = MyOtherClass(id)    # data is an object with name,
id
> > and other properties
>
> I think this is an extra complication that gains you nothing. The only
> exception would be that data would not be initialized in
MyClass.__init__()
> but lazily at some later point, a usefull pattern if for a significant
part
> of the MyClass instances you can get away with not initializing data at
> all. You would then change MyClass as follows:
>
My thinking was to create a class for each table that contains pieces of the
whole customer information , and wrap OOPS! I mean include :)  those classes
in the overall customer class object.  That way by supplying id, all the
different constructors would go get the right data.

At my level (pre-novice) it's probably better to use one customer class and
sequential programming in the constructor:

select * from table A where id=1234
self.company_name = A.name
...

select * from table B where id=1234
self.mailto=B.mailto
self.billto = B.billto
...
select * from table C where id=1234
self.cell=C.cell
self.list=C.list
...
(using multiple selects because they may produce different size record sets)


<<<<<------SNIP----->>>>>
> I suppose that was a mutual misunderstanding. Did you mean this by
> "wrapping"?
>
> try:
>     customer = Customer.fromId(1234)
> except InvalidCustomer, e:
>     print e
Yes


Thanks,
Bill




From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar  7 21:11:14 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:11:14 -0500
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <miksh1-coa.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>,
 "Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:

> Brett wrote:
> > Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> > (untested examples in C++)
> 
> What you have is what many other languages allow with integers after break or
> continue statements.  For example you can do 'break 2' or 'continue 3' to
> break or continue out of the respective number of enclosing for loops.

Yuck.  Bletch.  Barf.


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Mon Mar 22 09:22:23 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:22:23 +0100
Subject: socket.gethostbyaddr() doesn't show existing aliases
Message-ID: <c3msqu$279gv3$1@uni-berlin.de>

Hello all,

the documentation for the socket module says that gethostbyaddr should 
return the primary host name and alternative host names if there are 
any. But the alias list is empty even in cases where I know aliases 
exist. I can get them using gethostbyname_ex, but that only works with 
names, not with IP addresses, and I want to resolve both sorts.

I'm using Python 2.3.2 on Windows NT4, SP6.

What's wrong?

Thank you,
Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE



From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  5 05:10:51 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:10:51 GMT
Subject: mimic -i from script
References: <mailman.47.1078253784.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<m9OdnfiPgrQ5VNvd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m365djhadw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> John Hunter wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible at the end of a script to issue some python command
> > that will cause the python shell to open as if the -i flag had been
> > used
> 
> See the first item in
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/section-other.html

And if 2.3 isn't an option, you might be able to use the standard
library module code.py to good effect.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  QNX... the OS that walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but is,
  in fact, a platypus. ... the adventures of porting duck software 
  to the platypus were avoidable this time.
                                 -- Chris Klein, alt.sysadmin.recovery


From mailscan1-admin at mail.fairfax.com.au  Mon Mar 29 06:10:29 2004
From: mailscan1-admin at mail.fairfax.com.au (mailscan1-admin at mail.fairfax.com.au)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:10:29 +1000 (EAST)
Subject: An email has been blocked Re: Mail System
 (dfauth@access.fairfax.com.au)
Message-ID: <E1B7uf3-0002er-PA@mail.python.org>

An email was blocked because it contained an executable or
a filtered attachment.

It had the following details:

From: python-list at python.org
To: dfauth at access.fairfax.com.au

Subject: Mail System (dfauth at access.fairfax.com.au)




From ods at strana.ru  Thu Mar 11 09:14:45 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:14:45 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code objects in restricted
 execution mode
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403111622580.21016-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403111712290.21140-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>


More accurate: the problem is when module has compiled version
(.pyc), so I can run the script first time without error.

DSO> When I execute python code from C++ application with
DSO> PyEval_EvalCode and this code contains imports of other
DSO> modules
DSO> then I got the error "RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code
DSO> objects
DSO> in restricted execution mode".  How can I switch into
DSO> noraml (unrestricted) mode?
DSO>
DSO> Python 2.2.2, Linux. Actual code looks like the following:
DSO>
DSO> tstate = Py_NewInterpreter();
DSO> main_module = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
DSO> main_dict = PyModule_GetDict(main_module);
DSO> obj_res = PyEval_EvalCode(calc_code, main_dict, main_dict);

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From me at privacy.net  Mon Mar 15 06:38:40 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 06:38:40 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
Message-ID: <m2k71ms5kv.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:47:43 -0500,
"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

> # trivial example based on http://io.kicks-ass.net/LocalVariables
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.area = None
>     def square(self, side):
>         self.arae = side * side     # spelling mistake creates new attribute
>     def circle(self, radius):
>         self.area = 3.14 * radius * radius

> a = A()
> a.circle(1)
> print a.area  # 3.14 -> ok
> a.square(4)
> print a.area  # 3.14 -> unintended

What about __slots__ (with recent pythons and new styly classes)?

    >>> class A(object):
    ...  __slots__ = 'area'
    ...  def __init__(self):
    ...   self.arae = None
    ... 
    >>> a = A( )
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 4, in __init__
    AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute 'arae'

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Mar 24 03:47:22 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 09:47:22 +0100
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfvfku4oo5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

gabor <gabor at z10n.net> writes:

> i wanted to use python for a project in our company... we wanted to
> build a fairly big system/program.
> 
> but when i recommended python, i got a question like:
> (previously all the programs were written in java)
> "if one of our programmers changes a method in a class/interface, we
> immediately will know about it, because the next program-rebuild will
> simply fail. but if we would use python, we wouldn't find it out".

"if one of our programmers changes a method in a class, without
changing the interface, but introduces a logic error, we won't know
about it, because the program will happily compile, but, as we have no
test suite, the runtime error will go unnoticed."

The errors which static typing system catch at compile time, are just
a tiny fraction of all the errors that programmers make, and they are
usually the most boring, and most obvious errors.

> yes, i know that people usually recommend unit testing for this, but
> imho it is not a good enough argument

It is not a good enough argument for convincing those who already
firmly believe that static typing somehow helps in the overall
software development process. Yes, it is an unfortunate fact of human
nature that people often acquire ushakeable beliefs, which make them
very unreceptive to evidence which points to flaws in said beliefs.

> other thing is, that in the projects i work on, there seems to be
> very hard to do unit tests

... and one thing that makes unit testing very difficult, is static
typing ... (which is why statically-typed projects are less likely to
have (any, let alone good) unit test suites, which is why statically
typed projects are far more likely to be bug infested).

> ... most of the parts of the system can't be that easily be tested
> (how do you unittest a threadpool? a servlet?).

Yes, some things are harder to unit test than others. That in no way
affects the _necessity_ of testing it ... and static typing only makes
testing harder (and less testing means more bugs ... hence static
typing means more bugs.)

> yes, i've heard that "if you can't make unittests, that means your
> classes/modules/packages depend too much on each othere, and that
> means you wrote bad code.

Yes, there is some truth to that, but I consider it irrelevant to what
we are discussing. _All_ software must be tested, whether written with
or without static typing. Static typing makes testing more difficult,
therefore static typing lets more bugs slip through the net. (I hope
I've repeated that often enough in this article to for it to be
noticed my more than one reader :-)

(In next week's episode of "Static Typing Sucks" we discuss static
typing systems' penchent for rejecting perfectly _correct_ programs
because they contain what the rigid type system considers to be a type
error, even though said "error" would have no adverse influence on the
correct running of the program.)


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Mar  8 21:43:59 2004
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:43:59 -0800
Subject: a desired python editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403081852180.9048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403081852180.9048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>
Message-ID: <200403081844.00023.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Monday 08 March 2004 06:13 pm, Jim Benson wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   Does anyone know of a source code editor for python
> that has the following characteristics:
>
> 1) Freeware (desired)
> 2) Runs on Linux (required)
> 3) Syntax high lighting (required)
> 4) A separate window for each file opened (desired)
> 5) A way of seeing (and jumping to) the names of all methods/functions
>    data elements in the file. (required)

Emacs gives you all of the above 


1 and 2 are no-brainers, although, as a matter of terminology,
calling it freeware is going cause severe heartburn for some.

Items 3 and 5 come from python-mode.el, which is distributed with
python.

Item 4 will take a one line bit of configuration.

Gary Herron





From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Thu Mar 18 11:34:49 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com ("Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:34:49 GMT
Subject: [Python Win32] Accessing Python COM objects
Message-ID: <Jck6c.21431$Q2.9642@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Hello Bruces:

I've created a logging class. The interface from Python's PoV works
like this:

X = myLogger() # Creates an instance
X("some user", "some process", "A message to be logged")

Works a champ.

I'd like to be able to use identical semantics from VB.  However,
it VB seems not to recognize the syntax.

I've created a COM class that has-a myLogger instance.
I've exposed the __call__ method in _public_methods_

But vb cannot access the COM log object via its instance name the
way that Python can.

As a check, I added a public logEntry() method to the COM class.

I've verified that all the features of the COM class work correctly,
EXCEPT "call by name" (which I expect to invoke the __call__ method.)

Is there some way to convince VB to allow this?

I'm referring to "Python Programming on Win32" 1st Ed.

Is this simply not possible?  It's not a "problem" so much as a
preference.

Thanks


Charles Krug



From ville at spammers.com  Tue Mar 23 01:35:30 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 08:35:30 +0200
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Skip> It will probably be a BDFL pronouncement.  After all, that's
    Skip> why he's the

Of course it will - still, that didn't stop us from voting before :-).

There should be a kind of "standard voting system" for PEPs, w/o
administration overhead of occasional seperate vote. It would be a
data point, if nothing else. The result of the vote could be stored
together w/ the accepted/approved pep.

Actually, any third party could whip out the voting system, but the
illusion of authority would be more convincing if PSF was involved.
It would be fun, esp. if it was easier than the conditional expression
vote of yore :-).

FWIW, I prefer 

def f(x,y) [wrapper,wrapper...]:
        pass

or

def f(x,y) as iterable:
        pass

and would oppose

def f [wrapper, wrapper...] (x,y):
        pass

Like others, I want to see the param list right next to the function
name.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From beliavsky at aol.com  Mon Mar 29 19:01:42 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 16:01:42 -0800
Subject: Integer, 64 Bit, signed and unsigned
References: <c49t6n$4mh$1@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403291601.3001b2ca@posting.google.com>

Arithmetic with 8-byte integers will be much faster when using Fortran
and C++ compilers that directly support it, compared to Python, which
resorts to infinite precision arithmetic when 4-byte integers cannot
be used. Search for "speed integer*8" in this newsgroup -- there was a
discussion in late Feb early March 2004.

Torsten Mohr <tmohr at s.netic.de> wrote in message news:<c49t6n$4mh$1 at schleim.qwe.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> i'd like to use 64 Bit Integer values in Python,
> can anybody give me a hint on what are the limits
> in Python?
> 
> Can i use signed and unsigned 64 Bit Integers?
> 
> 
> Thanks for hints,
> Torsten.


From aldo123 at onet.pl  Tue Mar 16 07:11:42 2004
From: aldo123 at onet.pl (mic)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:11:42 +0100
Subject: win32: using postdata and safearray
Message-ID: <c36qu8$1gud$1@news.atman.pl>

I'm stuck with following problem. Using webbrowser control I try to make
custom-made request. I found working example of this written in VBS but
porting it to Python doesn't seem to work. The key is navigate (or
navigate2) method, that accepts PostData as one of it's parameters.
As stated in reference:
"The post data specified by PostData is passed as a SAFEARRAY Data Type
structure. The variant should be of type Array and point to a SAFEARRAY Data
Type. The SAFEARRAY Data Type should be of element type Integer, dimension
one, and have an element count equal to the number of bytes of post data."

Therefore I try to send simple 'ABC' string together with HTTP request by
creating list of ascii integers [65,66,67]. The list is supposed (as far as
I understand) to be automatically converted into safearray, but instead of:
[hex]: 41 42 43

the sequence of following bytes is being sent:
[hex]: 03 00 34 00 00 00 00 00 41 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 34 00 00 00 00
00 42 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 34 00 00 00 00 00 43 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
a3 f0 00

What's curious, I noticed some small differences between using tuples and
lists - the tuple seem to add some additional bytes at the end. It looks
like some wrong conversion of types, but I don't know any idea how to fix it
or maybe convert it manually.

Regards,

Michal




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar  1 16:32:55 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:32:55 -0800
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c20abc$dbm$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> i = 1
> j = 0
> while i < 100000000:
>    j = j + i
>    i = i + 1
> print j
> 
> Python   93.4
> Fortran   0.28

Not quite fair.  The Python version does long-integer 
(infinite-precision) math when i is greater than 65534 on a 32 bit 
processor.  You are really counting is the time to do 100,065,535 
integer additions and 99934465 long-integer additions.

Furthermore, you allow fortran to optimize the loop, but you don't 
optimize the python loop yourself, using those portions built-in that 
are known to be fast.

print sum(xrange(100000000))
takes half-as long as the while loop on my machine, yet does the exact 
same calculations.


Your Fortran definition includs a message saying "use 64-bit integers here":
integer*8 :: i,j


You are comparing apples to oranges on multiple levels.  Don't.

  - Josiah


From Python at ivonet.nl  Sun Mar 14 15:10:26 2004
From: Python at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:10:26 +0100
Subject: Is reverse reading possible? 
References: <20040314191047.15699.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c40a00$64069fd0$9600000a@pc001>

Please explain a bit more...

Can you tell me more about the lay-out of the file
Is it still formatted per line or per char?

I don't know how to handle chinese because I have never seen it in ASCII
Please give an example...



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Liu" <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com>
To: "py" <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Is reverse reading possible? 


> Jeff and Ivo,
> 
> Thank you very much for your solution.  Yes, I figure
> out it is easy for an ascii text.
> 
> The files (nearly 4M each)I am gonna read are a
> mixture of Chinese and English, where each Chinese
> character has 2 bytes and each English (ASCII) has 1
> byte, although the majority of the texts is Chinese.
> 
> So, if we reverse-read it without taking into
> consideration the 2-byte Chinese characters, we are
> gonna get the Chinese characters spelled out in the
> wrong way - unreadable!
> 
> So, it might be tedious to read such a text reversely
> unless you have a smarter idea.  Do you?
> 
> 
> 
> --- Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> > on seekable, byte-oriented binary files, sure.
> > 
> > import errno
> > 
> > SEEK_SET, SEEK_CUR, SEEK_END = range(3)
> > 
> > class Reversed:
> >     def __init__(self, f):
> >         self.f = f
> >         self.f.seek(-1, SEEK_END)
> >         self.at_eof = 0
> > 
> >     def read_byte(self):
> >         if self.at_eof: return ''
> >         byte = self.f.read(1)
> >         try:
> >             self.f.seek(-2, SEEK_CUR)
> >         except IOError, detail:
> >             if detail.errno == errno.EINVAL:
> >                 self.at_eof = 1
> >             else:
> >                 raise
> >         return byte
> > 
> >     def __iter__(self): return self
> > 
> >     def next(self):
> >         r = self.read_byte()
> >         if r == '': raise StopIteration
> >         return r
> > 
> > >>> "".join(Reversed(file("/etc/redhat-release",
> > "rb")))
> > '\n)worraY( 1 esaeler eroC arodeF'
> > 
> > Jeff
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 28 10:57:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:57:37 -0600
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040328155736.GA28726@unpythonic.net>

I just wanted to jump on the "Python *can* do prototypes" bandwagon, and
offer my own solution.  To me, a prototype looks like a class where all
methods are classmethods.  Well, then, just fix that up in a metaclass.
The only other wrinkle I addressed was calling __init__ (because an
instance is never created).  Special methods (such as __add__, __call__)
probably don't do anything sane.

This code is distributed under the "Free to a good home" license.

Jeff


import sys, types

class PrototypeMeta(type):
    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
        super(PrototypeMeta, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
        for name, value in dict.items():
            if isinstance(value, types.FunctionType):
                setattr(cls, name, classmethod(value))
        # cls always has __init__ -- it can either be object's init,
        # (which is a wrapper_descriptor) or a desired init (which is
        # a bound classmethod).  call it if it's the right one.
        if isinstance(cls.__init__, types.MethodType):
            cls.__init__()

    def __call__(
__metaclass__ = PrototypeMeta

class Thing:
    name = "Unnamed Thing"
    desc = "(Undescribed thing)"
    def __init__(self):
        print "created a new thing:", self.name

    def look(self):
        print "You see a", self.name
        print self.desc

class Room:
    name = "Unnamed Room"
    desc = "(Undescribed room)"
    contents = []

    def look(self):
        print "You are in", self.name
        print
        print self.desc
        print
        if self.contents:
            print "Things here:"
            for c in self.contents:
                print c.name
            print

class Python(Thing):
    name = "a snake"
    desc = "This snake has the number '%s' written on its belly" \
            % sys.version.split()[0]

class LivingRoom(Room):
    name = "Living Room"
    desc = """There is a large window on the south side of the room, which 
is also the location of the door to the outside.  On the west wall is an
unused fireplace with plants on the mantle.  A hallway is to the west,
and the dining room is north."""
    contents = [Python]

class DarkRoom(Room):
    def look(self):
        print "Where am I?  It's dark in here!"
        print

print
LivingRoom.look()
DarkRoom.look()
Python.look()



From allena29 at elsol.zwan  Sat Mar 13 11:53:05 2004
From: allena29 at elsol.zwan (allena29 at elsol.zwan)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:53:05 +0000
Subject: ANN: pyshaper - for easy traffic-shaping
References: <mailman.355.1079184225.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.13.16.53.04.668636@elsol.zwan>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:23:35 +1300, David McNab wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've released an alpha of 'pyshaper' - a python prog which makes
> traffic-shaping (bandwidth allocation/management) a snap.
> 
..
> Caveats:
>   - it's in alpha - only tested on Debian sid with kernel 2.6.4 -
>   worst-case scenario - no system damage, but possible bugs might
>     cause it to not work as well as desired.
> 


[allena29 at elsol bin]$ pyshaper.orig
  File "/usr/bin/pyshaper.orig", line 1253
    main()
       ^
IndentationError: expected an indented block


Regards,
adam


From s.meyer at ass-hannover.de  Wed Mar 17 12:41:50 2004
From: s.meyer at ass-hannover.de (Sebastian Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:41:50 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
References: <pan.2004.03.17.09.26.45.125309@technology-network.de>
	<c39d3f$nqm$01$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3a2k3$241p6v$1@ID-26281.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c39d3f$nqm$01$2 at news.t-online.com...

> Under Linux, similar things worked for me. Did you call setDaemon(True) on
> your bg threads?
>
No, i didnt call setDaemon ... is this essential to
gain the functionality i want?

Sebastian




From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar 12 22:06:23 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:06:23 GMT
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668@pd7tw1no>

elizabeth fletcher wrote:

> Want to use Sam Rushing's calldll Python Module on a windows box.  I don't
> understand how to install it.  I have several books that do not detail the
> steps in installing a 3rd party module in Windows.  Anybody want to throw
> me life preserver?

the installation process depends on whether you have source code or binary. 

If it's source code, usually you unzip a package, then look for a file
called setup.py and run:
python setup.py build    (this step may not be required) 
and then
python setup.py install

Your module will go into PYTHONDIR / lib/site-packages/MODULE_NAME.

if it's a binary dll file that you have, you just copy it into the
folllowing directory:
PYTHONDIR / DLLs. 

At least that's the general approach for Python2.3.

cheers
Stewart



From llothar at web.de  Wed Mar 24 16:44:42 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 13:44:42 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.337.1080136612.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0403241344.2a7c1fa5@posting.google.com>

"Raaijmakers, Vincent \(GE Infrastructure\)" <Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.337.1080136612.742.python-list at python.org>...
> I agree, Python is great but Smalltalk still rules...
> 
> Especially the development environments. If Python would have had the 
> same IDE it could so much more powerful.
> Still don't understand that no commercial products are available that 
> even come close to that.
> I would like to pay for it. Mature plugins in Eclipse, a 'P'Builder from 
> Borland.....
> 
> Still, nothing compares to IDE's like VisualAge for Smalltalk. Indeed, 
> so productive.

This has to do that Smalltalk and Python are both dynamical typed but
completely different in technical points. You simply can't do a lot of
things in Python that are so easy to do in an image based IDE.

Because python code can do a lot of things during the import and
imports can depend on the runtime there is a huge problem. This is a
problem that nobody can solve, without changing the python language.


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Tue Mar  2 00:30:27 2004
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 21:30:27 -0800
Subject: Licensing of wrappers around C/C++ code under more restrictive
	licensing.
References: <7ed8f64d.0402280218.5ff447cf@posting.google.com>
	<du7ishrmqsv.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<dc6f5c99.0402281637.71f8a571@posting.google.com>
	<9tt9h1-h1d.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<dc6f5c99.0402291944.a8a972d@posting.google.com>
	<7uhch1-gev.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0403012130.c16f46c@posting.google.com>

"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote in message news:<7uhch1-gev.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>...
> > I am surprised you even went as far as looking at the license for OSE as
> > in looking at "bitpim", not sure that what OSE had to offer in the way
> > of functionality would even have made it appropriate for what you were
> > doing.
> 
> I am putting in an XML-RPC over SSL interface to allow the BitPim software
> and the cell phone to be on different machines.  OSE was attractive
> because of the SOAP support as well.  (I think it would have later
> been ruled out due to lack of SSL anyway).

Yep, no SSL support. The SOAP support is pretty basic as well, and is even
a bit broken compared to XML-RPC. This is because the SOAP interface
can't handle empty dictionaries, nor can it handle keys in dictionaries
which aren't valid XML element names. These are problems with the SOAP
XML encoding format, not with the ZSI SOAP toolkit used. The issue of
keys in dictionaries being valid XML names is solved with some encoding
mechanism in later SOAP versions, but am not sure if OSE automatically
picks up the code changes in ZSI for that if present. I know of no solution
to the empty dictionary problem. The basic problem is that at the other
end it will decode as an empty string instead.

Overall, OSE is better if your focus is actually C++ rather than Python and
you want the Python wrappers for gluing stuff together and for add ons. If
only using Python, you do get lumbered with a lot of extra baggage you
don't really need.

> Note section 7 of the Artistic License:
> 
>   7.  C or perl subroutines supplied by you and linked into this Package
>       shall not be considered part of this Package.

You might want to look at the Artistic License 2.0. Its version of this
clause is somewhat better written. Also, the Original Artistic License
does get a lot of criticism because it has loopholes and is not actually
deemed as being GPL compatible nor really a free software license. It
only appears in the list of free software licenses because the criteria
was relaxed in a certain way such that it was acceptable. There was
conjecture that in time the criteria would be tightened and as a result
the Original Artistic License would not longer be classifiable as a free
software license.

People will probably start to wonder what bullshit I am talking here and
I may well be. I can't remember where, but I saw comments to this
effect in my browsing in the last day when trying to find commentaries
on the Artistic License 2.0.

Unfortunately I still don't quite know what the idea of 4 (c) as an option
in clause 4 is mean't to be at:

  4 (c) permit and encourage anyone who receives a copy of the Modified
          Version permission to make your modifications Freely Available in
          some specific way.

I see the Artistic License 2.0 as being possibly a good choice for what I
do, but that one only has to satsify ONE of the parts of each of clause 4
and 6 worries me a bit as I feel that some of the choices really let people
off very easily and may cause me conflict with other licenses I have to
satisfy. I even saw one comment by someone which I am not at all sure
about, which suggest that the Artistic License 2.0 was worded in such
a way that it didn't prevent someone taking what you had done and then
relicensing it under the GPL. If that is possible, that would not be good
for me as you have lost any gaurantees of being able to preserve the
intergrity of the overall package. So damn confusing at times, but then
one shouldn't trust what people on the net say anyway on such things.

> > I would like to make a bit of money from the 14 years of work that I
> > have put into all of this. :-)
> 
> Very understandable :-)  If only monetizing open source software was
> easy!

I'd say it is nigh on impossible if what you are providing is nuts and bolts
components. Yes it may be possible if what you have is an end user
application, but if it is just glue .....


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 27 08:58:44 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:58:44 -0600
Subject: A 'Python like' language
In-Reply-To: <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
Message-ID: <16485.34964.927473.201372@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    D> 3 solutions:

    D> 1. Use spaces instead of tabs.  Hit the space bar yourself, or an
    D>    editor that replaces tabs with spaces.

Won't work.  Prothon requires tabs.

    D> 2. Include as a .py or text file instead of inline.

Thanks to Microsoft, attachments frequently don't pass through mail servers
these days.  I know I filter all attachments out of a couple small mailing
lists I manage.

    D> 3. Get a different email program.

That would be the tail wagging the dog.  I suspect everybody writes far more
email which doesn't include programs.  They should be able to use whatever
email program suits them best.

At any rate, I agree with John that the Prothon folks got this particular
bit dead wrong.  If they wanted to avoid tab/space problems they should have
required that all indentation use only spaces, not only tabs.

Skip



From usenet at spling.plus.com  Fri Mar 19 10:17:26 2004
From: usenet at spling.plus.com (Matthew Bell)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:17:26 GMT
Subject: Basic Inheritance Question
References: <eyA6c.24600$Y%6.2538446@wards.force9.net>
	<405aeb3c$0$41757$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <fdE6c.24641$Y%6.2551917@wards.force9.net>

Ruud de Jong wrote:

> Matthew Bell schreef:

> > I've got a conceptual problem to do with inheritance.  
> > I'd be grateful if someone could help to clear up my 
> > confusion.

<...deletia...>

> You were nearly there. You don't need a <magictoken>;
> __init__ does not return anything.
> Just initialize the baseclass with the things you want:

>  >>> class myList(list):
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		list.__init__(self, [1,2,3])


>  >>> m = myList()
>  >>> m
> [1, 2, 3]
>  >>>

Ruud,

The light has come on!  Thanks very, very much for the 
pointer.  Given Python's general elegance I knew there 
must be an obvious way of doing this but I just couldn't
see it.  I do now.

Thanks again,
  Matthew.




From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Mar 25 14:52:36 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:52:36 -0800
Subject: Decoding numerical and name based HTML entities
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F59@opus.amorhq.net>

William Park wrote:
> Pieter Claerhout <Pieter.Claerhout at creo.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > what would be the easiest way in Python to decode HTML 
> entities to a unicode
> > string? I would need a function that supports both 
> numerical as well as name
> > based HTML entities.
> > 
> > I already did some googling, but I only found a function 
> that decoded
> > numerical ones, and this function didn't support unicode...
> 
> Dictionary "table" would be first thing I'd try, ie.
>     tohtml['&'] = '&amp;'
>     fromhtml['&amp;'] = '&'


That dictionary already exists ;)

>>> import htmlentitydefs
>>> htmlentitydefs.name2codepoint[u'amp']
38
>>> unichr(38)
u'&'


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 17 07:59:59 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:59:59 -0600
Subject: problem with cjkcodecs on Mandrake linux
In-Reply-To: <20040317050108.71682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4057C28E.92965723@alcyone.com>
	<20040317050108.71682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16472.19407.226726.381537@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Anthony> But I am using gbcxterm, which displays Chinese very well,
    Anthony> plus, I think I can also input Chinese using this terminal.
    Anthony> Then why do I still have this problem?

Look in your installed site.py file for the encoding variable and change it
as you like.  The default is "ascii".  Sounds like your sys admin may have
changed it to "latin-1".

Skip



From shane at zope.com  Thu Mar 25 10:19:40 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:19:40 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403241618280.21420-100000@shane.zope.com>	<4062EF99.1050802@zope.com>
	<fzbxarp1.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <4062F88C.40200@zope.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:
>>>    # Define an interface.
>>>    ICustomer = Interface(class):
>>>        def get_id():
>>>            """Return the customer ID"""
>>
>>Today, this would be written as:
>>
>>     class ICustomer:
>>         def get_id():
>>             """Return the customer ID"""
>>     ICustomer = Interface(ICustomer)
> 
> 
> With PEP 318 in place, it would be written as:
> 
>       class ICustomer [Interface]:
>           def get_id():
>               """Return the customer ID"""
> 
> Hm.
> 
> I like the third way best.  Why? The 'Interface(class)' idiom confuses
> me.  But maybe I'm infected by the PEP 318 virus.

What I don't like about the third alternative is the subtle distinction 
between parentheses and square brackets.  It seems like newbies would 
have a hard time with it, as would advanced programmers who are looking 
over a new code base.

Shane



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Mar 31 13:02:46 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:02:46 -0600
Subject: Creating Charts
References: <pan.2004.03.31.07.23.50.10533@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <l_GdnYVEc7kjmvbdRVn-tw@comcast.com>

I use Reportlib/Graphics and it works well for me.
I have one project where I generate nearly 8,000
unique barcharts (grading data for every school
in my state) and it is very fast.

I don't see the PIL requirement as bad, I use PIL
for lots of other projects also.  Getting this
going is worth the effort.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Thomas Guettler" <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.03.31.07.23.50.10533 at thomas-guettler.de...
> Hi!
>
> I need to create some simple charts with python.
> A list contains integers between 0 and mymax.
>
> I want to see how the values are distributed (How
> many are 0, how many are mymax, ...). The result should
> be a small (200x200) png file.
>
> I searched a bit:
> - gnuplot: Too big, too complicated
> - matplotlib: Too much gtk binding (I only need a png)
> - reportlib: Needs PIL. First try failed (_renderPM missing)
>
> Any hints on how to create charts?
> There need not to be a python-binding. I can
> call the external application with os.system().
>
> Operating System: Linux 2.4.20
>
>  Thanks,
>   Thomas
>




From patois at calvix.org  Sat Mar 20 10:52:17 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:52:17 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <105oe5k5ovugi5e@news.supernews.com>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
	<105oe5k5ovugi5e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c3hpcp$t7p$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

It's always very funny to read commented on  onself at the third person;)

I'm sorry to lost reader's time on this message, which is off-topic, 
but, I couldnt resist to respond, being directly involved in this post.

John Roth wrote:
> The reason he's getting the flack he's getting 

> His response to Terry's
> original attempt to help him see what was going on was
> both rude and sarcastic; that kind of behavior simply isn't
> acceptable on this newsgroup.

Then, the behavior of Terry should also have been quoted as rude and 
sarcastic. Most readers understood what I meant with my (incorrect) 
qualification of "static". I hope persons should be able to post here 
even if they dont master python vocabulary from a to z.
If qualifiying someone as smart enough to correct my own lack of 
vocabulary is "both rude and sarcastic", then I feel that heavily 
underlining the lack of vocabulary of a contributor could be qualified 
the same. And my answer was so because of this attitude.

Of course, it's not an excuse: replying to rudness by rudness is simply 
stupid, I do agree.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From piedmontbiz at aol.com  Wed Mar  3 20:21:32 2004
From: piedmontbiz at aol.com (PiedmontBiz)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 01:21:32 GMT
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
References: <eKr1c.32567$TF2.22282@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20040303202132.12138.00000806@mb-m02.aol.com>

> I'll let the experts answer this one. But I have a question. Do you rule
>out a
>> > http server ? If I were doing this I would avoid the apparent complexity
>> > wxpython and just use standard html and javascript to pass the answers
>to the
>> > server. The python script could record time it got the "get" and return
>it with
>> > the validation.
>> >
>> >
>> > allen
>>
>> Thanks, Allen!  Your solution is actually quite attractive, as it just
>> simplify the whole thing a lot....  I would consider it very
>> seriously...
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I was going to do this for my own curiosity, maybe a pythonics syntax quiz.

But I wondered, if this was done over the internet rather than an intranet
setup, how could a server script take into consideration the time it takes for
a response to travel for the user to the server? Two or more users could submit
the correct answer at the same galactic standard time yet their responses would
be routed differently to the server.

Allen



Allen



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 14:02:27 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:02:27 -0800
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
In-Reply-To: <106as5joq2o4n93@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
	<4im76054evpqbgkk2ja96rq66t1rm9r2uk@4ax.com>
	<c4393i$gbr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<106as5joq2o4n93@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c44ja2$p0v$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>It is even worse than that.  In windows, Python is really a single 
>>process, and no amount of threading is going to let one instance of 
>>Python use more than 100% of a single CPU.  I'm not sure if this is also 
>>the case with linux or OS X.
>>
> 
> Go through this with me.  I agree with your conclusion, and I
> don't keep up with Windows engineering.  Moreover, I think it's
> important that we educate the masses that multithreading in-
> herently *slows* operations on a single CPU.  However, I was
> sure that Windows *does* include the ability to distribute
> intraprocess native threads across SMP.  Am I misreading you?
> Are you making the point that Python's use of Windows threads
> only provides for concurrency between, in practice, one I/O
> and one computational operation?  

I should have given some background.  I've got dual processors and run 
windows 2000.  It works great.  I've done threaded development, both in 
IO bound and in processor bound applications.

On my dual processor machine, no amount of threads in a single Python 
process will ever allow you to use 100% of both processors.  Up to 100% 
of one processor, which amounts to 50% of both with the automatic 
processor migration that Windows likes to do.  I believe this is the 
result of Python threads needing the GIL, but don't quote me on that, I 
don't have an intimate working knowledge of the GIL or the inner 
workings of Python to know for sure.

In practice, threads work just fine for IO bound applications; I've done 
blocking sockets programming with threads, and they've worked pretty 
well.  However, the thread overhead is awful for more than a half dozen 
threads when you want to do /anything/ other than reading and writing 
from sockets.

  - Josiah


From http  Mon Mar 29 04:57:54 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 01:57:54 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2A7F76.07570527032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<2jS9c.58187$cx5.18518@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <7x7jx4gel9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> > What does stacklessness do for me as an application programmer?
> 
> The first thing is lack of recursion limits.  Later you will find
> continuations and other cool things.

You gonna have a real compiler?  You might also take the opportunity
to back off on some of Python's dynamicness.

Have you looked at PyPy?


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Tue Mar 30 19:55:47 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:55:47 -0700 (MST)
Subject: proper use of braces in Python (was: Prothon Prototypes vs
 Python Classes)
In-Reply-To: <406A0CFD.2080600@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403301738530.10049-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Michael wrote:

> 
> >>Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
> >>next line" wars.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >    int main (void)
> >    {
> >        if (true)
> >        {
> >        }
> >
> >        return 0;
> >    }
> >
> >There is no other way.
> >  
> >
> No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!
> 
> int main ( void ) {
>     if ( true ) {
>         return 1;
>     }
>     return 0;
> }
> 
> This is clearly better. Compact yet easy to read. I try formatting my 
> Python code exactly like this and it always complains about my braces.. 
> clearly wrong.
> 
> 

Hi,

...just a food for thought from a Python list lurker.
I have always been a strong adherent to the

if (true) {

}

form. Not too long ago on this list (i think it was), 
someone pointed out that you never see:

If (true) BEGIN:

END

humm...i thought, your right, in that case i guess
i would probably write the BEGIN on a different
line...not sure what indention of the END 
i would choose. 

Jim
	  




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 24 07:42:38 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:42:38 -0500
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>	<e4e0340c.0403221615.356e8794@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.266.1080024073.742.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403232103.7fd0d6b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10630ij5763n72d@news.supernews.com>


"Jess Austin" <jaustin at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:e4e0340c.0403232103.7fd0d6b0 at posting.google.com...
> Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote in message
news:<mailman.266.1080024073.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > On 23-mrt-04, at 1:15, Jess Austin wrote:
> > > class foo(object):
> > >     def __foo_method(...)
> > >         ....
> > >     bar = decorator1(__foo_method)
> > >     baz = decorator2(__foo_method, arg1, arg2)
> > >
> > > I can't imagine the exact use for this, but I can imagine that there
> > > could be a use.  If the syntax remains as it is, that is.  This PEP
> > > seems to shoot itself in the foot in this respect.
> >
> > The syntax in PEP318 is syntactic sugar for the most common use of
> > function decorators, the current syntax would still be supported.
>
> That's good to hear.  Should this be made explicit in the PEP?

I don't know how you would unsupport it, actually. It's
simply a function call, after all.

John Roth




From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Mon Mar  1 18:52:44 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:52:44 -0600
Subject: Function calling another function
References: <mailman.6.1078176150.21900.python-list@python.org>
	<c20ckt$88a$03$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <000901c3ffe8$4aae0540$0300a8c0@D4XN6B41>

Hi all,

Thanks a lot and sorry. It was an indentation mistake. Caused havoc for 30
mins for me.


Thanks again

Regards,
Satish


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Function calling another function


> > My question is surely a basic one, but somehow, I am not able to figure
it
> > out.
> <snip>
> > When I execute satish.py, main() executes. I was expecting y() to
execute
> > first and then x() and then y() again. I wanted function x() to be
capable
> > of calling function y(). With this form of code, seems like function x()
> > is not recognising function y(). Is there any sort of import or anything
> > else that I can do here ??
>
> Works for me:
>
> def main():
>     y()
>     x()
>
>
> def y():
>     print "y"
>
> def x():
>     print "x"
>     y()
>
> main()
>
> gives me:
>
>
> x
> y
> x
>
> As expected.
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Diez B. Roggisch
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From vqrsdw at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 11:08:42 2004
From: vqrsdw at yahoo.com (wruuqr ewfjbc)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:08:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Remembered arguments to a function
Message-ID: <20040309160842.66870.qmail@web60108.mail.yahoo.com>

Should I have expected the behavior of this function? 
Is this a bug?  Is it wise to exploit this behavior?

def test(a, b, d={}):
	'''
	sample output:

	Python 2.1.3 (#35, Apr  8 2002, 17:47:50) [MSC 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
	Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
	>>> x = test(1, 2)
	>>> x
	{1: 2}
	>>> x = test(3, 4)
	>>> x
	{3: 4, 1: 2}
	>>> y = test(5, 6)
	>>> y
	{5: 6, 3: 4, 1: 2}
	>>> test(7, 8)
	{7: 8, 5: 6, 3: 4, 1: 2}
	'''
	d[a] = b
	return d

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From no at spam.com  Wed Mar 31 13:35:33 2004
From: no at spam.com (Didier Morandi)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:35:33 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
In-Reply-To: <868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>
Message-ID: <c4f31k$1j1c$2@biggoron.nerim.net>

Mike Pelletier wrote:
../..
> Didier Morandi said that the greatest reason for posting is so one may
> "get help or information".

Didier Morandi said that *his advice on* the greatest reason...

D.



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Mar 20 03:29:40 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 00:29:40 -0800
Subject: parsing emails
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403200029.6859e390@posting.google.com>

I use Mozilla or Netscape, so my emails are stored in the nsmail
directory
or the Mozilla's equivalent. What's the simplest way to look at them
and
extract the mails with a given subject? In principle I could use a
regular expression, but I bet there are better solutions already
available.
Second question: are Mozilla and Netscape compatible, i.e. are the
emails stored with the same format and can I use the same extraction
method on both?

TIA,


             Michele Simionato


From newspost at lolmc.com  Wed Mar 24 14:07:34 2004
From: newspost at lolmc.com (Lol McBride)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:07:34 +0000
Subject: Is this the correct way to implement TestSuite?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.24.09.13.54.523877@lolmc.com>

Hi all,
I've been using unittest for a while now but only creating test cases for
individual modules of an application e.g class foo() has a reciprocal
module called class fooTestCase() class bar() has a reciprocal module
called class barTestCase()

Now my app has quite a few modules and I want to run a single test that
calls all of the xxxTestCase() modules and therefore runs all of the tests
I have created so far.Looking at the docs for unittest I see a section
showing the following code which seems to fit what I want:

       suite1 = module1.TheTestSuite()
       suite2 = module2.TheTestSuite()
       alltests = unittest.TestSuite((suite1, suite2))

However as I'm somewhat slow on the uptake for some things I'm unsure how
to create the module to contain the code above.Below is what I think is
how to do it and I would appreciate it if someone could let me know if
this is correct or where I have gone wrong.

import unittest
import os
import sys
sys.path.append('../..')
sys.path.insert(0,os.pardir)
import fooTestCase
import barTestCase

class allTests(unittest.TestCase):

    def makeSuites(self):
       suite1 = module1.TheTestSuite()
       suite2 = module2.TheTestSuite()
       alltests = unittest.TestSuite((suite1, suite2))
       

-- 
It's action,reaction - random interaction.
So who's afraid of a little abstraction?Can't get no satisfaction from the facts?
you better run home boy,a facts a fact from Rome to Nome.
Copyright Peart,Lifeson and Lee


From rick_muller at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 11:15:59 2004
From: rick_muller at yahoo.com (Rick Muller)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 08:15:59 -0800
Subject: Advice needed: large OpenGL + Widgets Project for Molecular
	Graphics
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5eb8fb88.0403160815.36d716a6@posting.google.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Rick Muller wrote:
> ...
> 
> >3. Tkinter/PyOpenGL/Togl
> >   Advantages: Least amount of modules to install.
> >
> >   Disadvantages: Tk is ugly. Tk is old. Tk doesn't look good on
> >   Macintosh/Aqua. Togl is either dead or dying?
> >  
> >
> Togl is pretty much history.  I'll likely fix the installer one last 
> time for the next bug-fix release (2.0.2) and then drop the thing.  I've 
> been looking for someone who uses Tkinter+Togl to champion maintenance 
> of the thing for years and never found anyone interested enough to 
> bother.  I'm not a huge fan of Tkinter either, for that matter.

Help me out with this: is it that the togl project is history, or that
the Python bindings for Togl are history? I've poked around the Togl
website (http://togl.sf.net), and I'm not overwhelmed with new
releases. Plus, there don't seem to be many posts to the mailing list
in the last year.

But I'm amazed that more people don't need to put an OpenGL window in
a graphical widget -- seems like a common task. How do people do this?

Thanks for the responses!


From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Mar 11 05:48:58 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 05:48:58 EST
Subject: [ANN]: twander 3.146 Released And Available
Message-ID: <tks5i1-vji2.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

'twander' Version 3.146 is now released and available for download at:

          http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander

The last public release was 3.135

Existing users should upgrade as this release contains
several bug fixes.

This release also introduces these new features:

1) Abilty to toggle automatic refresh on- and off from the keyboard.

2) Ability to force a display refresh after a command is launched.

3) "Shortcut" (alias) references to the built-in variables
    when composing a command manually.

Complete details of all fixes, changes, and new features can be found in
the WHATSNEW.txt file included in the distribution.

Users are strongly encouraged to join the twander-users mailing list as
described in the documentation.


What Is 'twander'?
------------------

'twander' is a macro-programmable Filesystem Browser which runs on both
Unix-like systems as well as Win32 systems. It embraces the best ideas
of both similar GUI-driven programs (Konqueror, Windows Explorer) as
well as text-based interfaces (Midnight Commander, List, Sweep).


Or, If You Prefer The "Elevator Pitch"
--------------------------------------

'twander' is:

    - A better file browser for Unix and Win32. (Tested on FreeBSD, Linux, Win32.)
    - A way to make browsing the same on all the OSs you use.
    - A macro-programmable tool that lets *you* define the features.
    - A GUI navigation front-end for your shell.
    - A way to "can" workflows for your technically-challenged colleagues.
    - A way to free yourself from the shackles of the mouse.
    - A way to significantly speed up your day-to-day workflow.
    - A Python/Tkinter application - about 3100/1300 lines of code/comments
    - A RCT (Really Cool Tool) that will have you addicted in a day or two

See the web page for more information and a screen shot. Better still,
download the tarball and read the documentation.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com









From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar 20 16:41:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:41:21 -0800
Subject: New restrain builtin function?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F2C@opus.amorhq.net>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> In several occasions, I found myself looking for a function 
> that would take a value and restrict is within a specified
> set of boundaries...
> 
> def restrain(value, theMin, theMax) :
> 
>      assert(theMax >= theMin)
>      return min(max(value,theMin),theMax)
> 

I'd find a limit() function more useful, where either min or max is
optional:

def limit(value, lower=None, upper=None):
    """Return value limited by lower and/or upper bounds."""
    
    if upper is not None:
        value = min(value, upper)
    if lower is not None:
        value = max(value, lower)
    return value

This allows for single-boundary limits:

>>> limit(3, 5)
5
>>> limit(3, upper=1)
1

And a no-op:

>>> limit(3)
3

Also, you don't need to assert that upper >= lower; in fact, if upper is
less than lower, you can use the same function for exclusive boundaries:

>>> limit(3, 5, 1)
5

However, I find both restrain(3, 1, 5) and limit(3, 1, 5) difficult to
read. It would be nice to produce the same thing with some other syntax.
If we did it in C, we could at least write: limit(lower=None, value,
upper=None). But perhaps there's some other means I'm not thinking of.
It'd be nice to have "value" look different than upper and lower. Maybe
something like: limit(value, (lower, upper)), or even value.limit(lower,
upper) using a __limit__ customizable method. Hmm.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar 11 11:49:54 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:49:54 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<405035a3$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <m2n06nd3cc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<405087fc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <EO%3c.2675$G3.20988@localhost>
Message-ID: <donn-F388FE.08495411032004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <EO%3c.2675$G3.20988 at localhost>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

[... re "if a.find(v):"]

> I believe it's more likely they just forgot what find() did return, as 
> they were writing the code.  I've done the same, thinking it was a 
> boolean, not thinking that it returned a negative but that negatives 
> were considered false.

I'm sure that's common.  In principle, seems to me that in
many if not most cases the "index" function expresses the
result better - for example,

   try:
       t = a.index(e)
   except ValueError:
       return a
   else:
       return a[:t]

But for some reason, the average programmer seems to greatly
prefer non-valid error returns over exceptions, even though
they're naturally idiosyncratic and prone to this kind of
error.  I sure don't recall seeing "index" very often, anyway.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 18:38:39 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 15:38:39 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
Message-ID: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>

Still trying to understand "=="... It appears as if two equal objects
can become unequal if you perform the same operations on them:

  >>> l=[1]
  >>> s=l
  >>> l.append(s)
  >>> w=[1]
  >>> r=[1,w]
  >>> w.append(r)
  >>> s
  [1, [...]]
  >>> w
  [1, [1, [...]]]
  >>> s==w
  True

Note that they're equal, yet are printed differently.

  >>> s[0]=2
  >>> w[0]=2
  >>> s==w
  False

All of a sudden they have become unequal.

Axel


From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Mar  7 09:43:05 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:43:05 GMT
Subject: Eric /Qt documentation / how-to?
References: <yux2c.729744$ts4.93229@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <ZxG2c.24058$OF4.12238@news01.roc.ny>

On 2004-03-07, Stewart Midwinter <stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org> wrote:
> I'm trying to get an idea of how the Eric3 IDE works.  I've got it 
> installed and running, and also have the Qt Designer installed and 
> running. Thanks to a a tutorial I found in the Qt section of the 
> moinmoin at python.org, I have figured out how to use .ui files in a 
> python script to create my GUI.  So far, so good.
>
> What I don't see is the value I would get from using Eric3.  I mean, I 
> can use the Scintilla editor on a standalone basis, and launch Qt 
> Designer manually.  What extra value would I get by using Eric3?  Is 
> there a way to create .py files out of .ui files by using Eric3?
>

I think the killer feature of eric is either debugging or refactoring.
Take a look for docs mentioning "bicycle repair man"




From rien at focus.demon.nl  Sun Mar 28 13:35:26 2004
From: rien at focus.demon.nl (Rien Kok)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:35:26 +0200
Subject: Installing Python 2.3.3 on RH 7.3
Message-ID: <106e6nge2aiiqa9@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

I have a strange problem. I want to install Plone
(Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm) Because Plone 2.0 needs Python 2.3.3, I
installed Python 2.3.3 from source (Python-2.3.3.tar).

Everything went well. After installing Python I did a reboot of the server
and checked if Python works.

      Quote:
      [root at homeserver root]# python
      Python 2.3.3 (#1, Mar 28 2004, 11:29:35)
      [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-113)] on linux2
      Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
      >>>


So I suppose I installed the right version of Python. But when I tried to
install Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm it gives the following error:

      Quote:
      [root at homeserver Zope-Plone]# rpm -Uvh Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm
      error: failed dependencies:
      /usr/bin/python2.3 is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
      expat >= 1.95.5 is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
      libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3) is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
      python2.3 >= 2.3.3 is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2


When I installed Python from source, Python was installed in
"/usr/local/bin/" in stead of "/usr/bin/" so I copied "Python2.3" from
"/usr/local/bin/" to "/usr/bin/" but that doesn't help.

What can I do to change (or extend) the path so Plone can find the right
version of Python.

Thanks,

Rien




From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 24 12:07:48 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:07:48 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3mlvj$dc$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf8yhq4cj5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c3s9l2$2bebc3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfu10e2ooo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfptb22o9u.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <slrnc63edr.3sn.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <tyfptb22o9u.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>, Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Sometimes I want to run a program that I _know_ full well is full of
> bugs, dammit!  During the whole of the development process, the
> program is full of bugs, by definition ... I still want to be able to
> see how it behaves, in order to investigate what to do about
> it. Static type systems all too often forbid me to do this. (Even
> Hindley Milner type systems.)

But, like you said, type errors are the most trivial kinds of errors.
Why do you want to know what'll happen if you pass it a float instead of
an int, when you know full well that can never happen in practice due to
static typing?

(Wait, I know.  So that you'll know whether it degrades gracefully or
requires a big conversion function that will take effort to write.
Damn, I'm not much of a devil's advocate, am I?)

Joe


From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Mar 23 11:19:18 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:19:18 -0500
Subject: explicit variable scoping
References: <mailman.279.1080051991.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7rZ7c.11361$A_2.694679@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Eyal Lotem" <gnupeaker at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.279.1080051991.742.python-list at python.org...

> Explicit "let"s do seem to get rid of the
> local-vs-global issue, while providing an elegant
> solution to the nested-functions variable access
> problems.
>
> d=1
> e=9
> def f():
>   def a=None,b=3 # Since locals are typically
>                  # created via an assignment
>                  # it makes much sense to allow
>                  # unifying the creation of their
>                  # scope [def] with the assignment
>                  # to eliminate some redundancy
>   b=4 # rebinding
>   d=5 # raise error, neither local or global
>   global e
>   def g():
>     e=10 # global assignment
>     b=5 # rebinding
>     def a=7 # new local binding
>   print a, b, e # will print None, 5, 10

Hi.

Re-using "def" like that really is confusing. Maybe try "let":

let d = 1
let e = 9
def f():
    let a, b = None, 3
    b = 4 # rebind
    d = 5 # raise error, should be "let d = 5"
   def g():
       e = 10  # global assignment
       b = 5  # rebind b in f
       let a = 7  # new local binding
    print a, b, e  # will print None 5 10



Or, perhaps ":=" :

d := 1
e := 9
def f():
    a, b := None, 3
    b = 4 # rebind
    d = 5 # raise error, should be "d := 5"
   def g():
       e = 10  # global assignment
       b = 5  # rebind b in f
       a := 7  # new local binding
    print a, b, e  # will print None 5 10




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Mar  4 20:15:37 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:15:37 +0100
Subject: How to find size of file?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
References: <Xns94A2BF882E24FGaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
Message-ID: <c28k8g$1r0k8o$1@ID-124666.news.uni-berlin.de>

Walter Huf wrote:
> Hi, I'm the same one with the CGI download problem. This time, however, I 
> want to send the client the size of the file that will be downloaded. How 
> would I find the size of the file, so I can include that in the headers? 

 >>> import os
 >>> os.stat("c:/tmp/x.html").st_size
567L

-- Gerhard


From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Fri Mar  5 23:38:49 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:38:49 GMT
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
References: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tBc2c.717628$ts4.384204@pd7tw3no>

another question - in your quick summary of GUI libraries, what happened to
Tkinter?  It seems to have by far the most extensive documentation
available, so it is conspicuous by its absence. 

cheers
Stewart





From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 19:19:17 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:19:17 +0000
Subject: PEP318 alternate syntax idea
References: <vb0060pr3pqqa9a539l6ld9oehkngi03vg@4ax.com>
	<cab22418.0403231139.39085891@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <euc160tp0l8hsts9l8rjvhgv3n6nhk0d81@4ax.com>


I seem to have written more than I intended below.

Whether the repetition of decorators will be a real issue is, of
course, undecided. Maybe the idea anticipates a problem which will
never be important anyway.

What I mean to say is that, if the following reads like I'm upset or
on the attack or something, I'm not. Sometimes, when I'm just trying
to be clear what I'm saying, I actually get very verbose and very
unclear, and too often I get right up peoples noses. Especially when
I'm stressed out for other reasons, as is definitely the case right
now.

I hope this isn't _too_ bad...


On 23 Mar 2004 11:39:05 -0800, JimJJewett at yahoo.com (Jim Jewett)
wrote:

>In python, 
>
>    block_starter:
>        indented_code1
>        indented_code2
>
>implies something about the how the *indented* code will be run.
>It may get skipped (if/else), repeated (for/while) or delayed
>(class, def), but it will definately do something strange.
>
>With decorators, the function definition itself is normal (and
>therefore should not be indented); it is the decorators that
>run at an unexpected time.

First off, indented blocks work in a very similar way to each other in
Python simply because of convenience - Python is a dynamic language
and can thus do many things with imperitive code that static languages
cannot.

But that doesn't mean there is a fundamental principle at work here.
In terms that an evolutionary theorist might used, this pattern is a
spandrel - an indirect and accidental consequence of something else.
The principle is that 'dynamic is good', which says nothing at all
about the meaning of indented blocks.

In programming in general, indented block structures serve a range of
purposes, many of them having nothing to do with how code is executed.
Member declarations in a statically typed language, for instance, are
not executed at all because they are not imperitive code. If it is
useful to group a range of things together for any purpose, an
indented block is very often the means of doing it. The indentation is
often optional in terms of the language spec., but that is besides the
point.

Python has not, AFAIK, deliberately opted out of that 'anything
whenever it's the right thing' use of blocks. It has tended to only
use a restricted type of block, but not out of principle - only as a
side-effect of something else. Other kinds of blocks may still be 'the
right thing'.


Besides, I'm not confident that the distinction you have drawn is
valid.

Any statement in 'if', 'while' and 'for' indented blocks is 'normal'.
What is modified is NOT how the code is run, but merely whether, when,
or how many times the block as a whole is run. Once the code in the
block is entered, it progresses normally just as if it was not in an
indented block.

Compare that with the code within a class or function definition.
There is more 'strange' going on than just control over when the code
is executed. Assignments and definitions operate differently, so that
the items assigned or defined end up in a different namespace
dictionary.

If it is valid to modify assignments and definitions such that the
targets of assignments and declarations are different, then why isn't
it valid to change other aspects of the way that assignments and
declarations are completed? IMO, there is no fundamental difference
between decorating and redirecting in this context. All it implies,
after all, is that the current dictionary gets wrapped with something
that overrides __setattr__ (to something that applies the decorators
before calling the wrapped dictionarys __setattr__).

Basically, even if there were any principle behind restricting what an
indented block can do beyond asking 'what is the right thing' (which
AFAIK there isn't), class and def blocks already do, in part,
essentially the same thing that a decorate block would do (tweak the
way that assignments and definitions operate by changing the
dictionary that they target).


>may still be an option, but it doesn't answer your request for a
>*single* preamble.  I agree that creating a lambda *just* to bundle
>the decorators is ugly, but if you really have a large number of
>decorators that always go together ... maybe there is a good name
>for the collection.

There are frequently many functions in a class that follow a similar
pattern simply because they do similar jobs. Take, for instance, the
following in the Python string class...

  isalnum, isalpha, isdigit, islower,
  isspace, istitle, isupper

Isn't it logical that if one function in such a group needed
decorating, all of them would? Of course it is!

Does that mean that there is some link between the decorations, or
that there is a sensible name for the whole set of decorations? Of
course not!

The pattern in the decorations is another example of a spandrel - the
reason for the pattern lies elsewhere (in the overall similarity
between the member functions) and has nothing much to do with the
meanings of the decorators.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From sdementen at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 17 02:34:27 2004
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 23:34:27 -0800
Subject: destructuring tuple and list
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0403162334.435de9c6@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Is there a reason to not extend the tuple destructuration in functions
to any expression ?
For instance, we can:
	def f(x, y, *tail):
		return tail + (x,y)
	f(3,4,5,6) -> (5,6,3,4)
or
	f(*(3,4,5,6)) -> idem

But I can't do:
	(x,y, *tail) = (3,4,5,6)
and get
	x=3
	y=4
	tail = (5,6)
Same question for lists...

Thank you
Sebastien


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 12 22:15:44 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:15:44 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>
Message-ID: <c2tucr$fj5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

What do you guys think of something like this... I know it's not safe, but
it would keep the *average* user from immediately seeing the password:

def stupid():
   objects0 = ["j", "a", "b"]
   objects1 = ["T", "x", "f"]
   objects2 = ["/", ":", ";"]
   objects3 = ["d", "w", "v"]
   objects4 = ["0", "9", "4"]
   objects5 = ["H", "B", "G"]
   objects6 = ["!", "~", "'"]
   objects7 = ["o", "l", "e"]
   objects8 = ["U", "M", "E"]
   objects9 = ["=", "+", "-"]
   compiled = objects9[0] + objects1[2]\
   + objects5[0] + objects6[1] + objects0[2]\
   + objects4[1] + objects3[2] + objects7[1]\
   + objects2[2] + objects8[0]
   return compiled
stupid()

How else could I twist this up?


From ephilpva at sfs.uni-tuebingen.de  Mon Mar 22 08:47:45 2004
From: ephilpva at sfs.uni-tuebingen.de (Katja Filippova)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:47:45 +0100
Subject: problems with nltk
Message-ID: <405EEE81.1050201@sfs.uni-tuebingen.de>

hi,

Has anybody tried using natural language toolkit 
(http://nltk.sourceforge.net/) under Python (my version is 2.1.1)?

problems:
first, I wanted to import a module, as it is written in the manual, but 
it didn't work:
 >>> from nltk.token import *
Traceback (most recent calls last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named nltk.token

since there was such module I thought that Python simply didn't look for 
it in the right directory and I rewrote the path:

import sys, os
SRCDIR="/home/name/nltk-1.3"
sys.path.append(SRCDIR)
print sys.path

After that the error message changed to:

 >>> from nltk.token import *
Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    File "__init__.py", line 49, in ?
        ----------------
    File "/...........python211/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 
35, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: libtk8.3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file 
or directory

Then I typed import _tkinter but it didn't help, I got the same error 
message as before:

    File "/...........python211/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 
35, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: libtk8.3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file 
or directory

If I try to import the module again I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    File "/home/name/nltk-1.3/nltk/token.py", line 308
        yield self._deep_restrict(item, props, incl)
                    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Does it really mean that Python is not configured for Tk? What does 
"<stdin>" mean? Is it the problem with nltk rather than with Python?

thanx in advance,
Katja




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 24 10:32:19 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:32:19 -0600
Subject: declaring multimethods [Was: Re: PEP 318]
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403222352.2679dde@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.289.1080056808.742.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0403232104.328356ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16481.43523.114080.750272@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michele> Please take what I posted just as an idea (it is not even my
    Michele> idea!), not as an implementation proposal.  I don't have an
    Michele> implementation, but I am pretty much convinced that it is
    Michele> possible and not that hard.

    ...

    Michele> Just to support your point that the decorator idea is a Pandora
    Michele> box, and we can extract anything from it ;)

Perhaps, but the box is already there.  All the decorator syntax does is
maybe make it a bit easier to pry off the lid. ;-)

Still, I'd like to follow this thread just a little further, mostly just to
see where it goes.  I will assume the presence of PEP 318 decorators.  We
have a Matrix(?) class which we want to multiply by various other object
types:

    class multimethod [singleton]:
        def __init__(self):
            self.methods = {}

        def __call__(self, t1, t2):
            def decorator(f):
                ... here's where the work gets done ...
                return something_like_f
            return decorator

    class Matrix:
        def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod(Matrix,Matrix)]:
            ...
            return result

        def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod(Matrix,Vector)]:
            ...
            return result

        def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod(Matrix,Scalar)]:
            ...
            return result

Using the proposed PEP 318 semantics, at the time decorator(<function>) is
called, it will be passed a function object but "__mul__" will not have been
seen yet.  However, the function object's func_name field should have been
filled in.  That should give it enough information to build a new function
object.  It knows the proposed types from t1 and t2 in the enclosing
method's scope and it knows the function's name, so it has enough for a
C++-style signature.  It can save a list of tuples consisting of the
function object and t2 in self.methods keyed by the name and t1 (t1 must
always be the class).  Hmmm... t1 presents a problem since at the time
multimethod(Matrix,Matrix) is called there is no Matrix class available (it
hasn't been bound yet).  You'd have to fudge that and use strings as the
type names.  That presents another problem.  Classes, unlike functions,
don't have name attributes, so mapping the names passed to multimethod() to
classes is problematic.  You could punt and decorate the class:

    class Matrix [attributes(_name="Matrix")]:
        ...

but then you're naming the class twice.

It certainly seems doable, but the end result doesn't seem all that pretty.
I think it would look sort of like:

    class Matrix [attributes(_name="Matrix")]:
        def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod("Matrix","Matrix")]:
            ...
            return result

        def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod("Matrix","Vector")]:
            ...
            return result

        def __mul__(self,other) [multimethod("Matrix","Scalar")]:
            ...
            return result

Skip



From user_77 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 09:27:01 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:27:01 GMT
Subject: testing - please ignore
References: <mailman.6.1078363609.772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <V0H1c.167333$B81.1911844@twister.tampabay.rr.com>


"Barry Warsaw" <barry at python.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.6.1078363609.772.python-list at python.org...
> This is a test message, please ignore.
>
> -Barry
>
>
>
>

No. :)




From stewart at midwinter.ca  Fri Mar 19 16:09:39 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 13:09:39 -0800
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0403191309.7d3b7439@posting.google.com>

hugh at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm calling a command from within a python script and I need to be
> able to both catch the output (stdout and stderr) from it and also
> have the PID (so that I can kill it)

Take a look in PyPi for popen5.  It may do what you want, but only in
Linux: the Windows version isn't complete yet.

S


From ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar 18 05:59:49 2004
From: ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk (alastair)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 02:59:49 -0800
Subject: Handling geoTIFF files
References: <23ae7099.0403170210.540888cd@posting.google.com>
	<s9zvfl3oj89.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
	<r8rmi1-e4u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <23ae7099.0403180259.6241c23a@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the advice so far - I've had a look at GDAL but I'm not
sure how to get started, and can't seem to find a whole lot of
information to help me.

If you can offer any advice on how to use the GDAL library in Python
that would be great (or anywhere I can find a tutorial/help).

Thanks,

Alastair.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Mar 14 10:01:13 2004
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:01:13 -0800
Subject: List append help
References: <105811aq55rah53@corp.supernews.com> <40540841.8070802@zoran.com>
	<1058329gsgeq85f@corp.supernews.com>
	<140320040426395478%DavidMLewis.NO@SPAM.mac.com>
Message-ID: <1058stra6a89193@corp.supernews.com>

Thank you!

David Lewis <DavidMLewis.NO at SPAM.mac.com> wrote:
>
>In article <1058329gsgeq85f at corp.supernews.com>, Bill wrote:
>
>> Thank you, This was really bugging me. To help me understand, do you know
>> why the return value was None even though it was added to the list?
>
>It?s a philosophical decision made throughout Python. When an operation
>is destructive (i.e. it changes the object on which it operates rather
>than returning a new, changed, object), it returns None to emphasize
>the point.
>
>Best,
>   David


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  7 08:00:19 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 05:00:19 -0800
Subject: attachment
References: <f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9@posting.google.com>
	<f046efac.0403060045.7ae84d33@posting.google.com>
	<4049ad99$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403070500.41935620@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<4049ad99$0$564$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> > ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<f046efac.0403030156.7e8257c9 at posting.google.com>...
> > 
> >>Hi
> >>I am trying to upload a file using <input type="file"....>
> >>I want to know what is the best way to store this uploaded file 
> >>Should I store it in the databse??
> >>Or should I store the entire file on the server??
> > 
> > 
> > If I decide to store the file on the server,then di I have to use ftp
> > to copy the file on the server??
> 
> No, the actual file contents is submitted as part of the HTTP POST request.
> (make sure you use method="post" and enctype="multipart/form-data" in your form).
> Python's cgi module knows how to deal with it.
> 
> Where you store your file is entirely up to you and depends on what
> you want to do with it.
> 
> --Irmen

Hi
Thanks for your reply.
Ya the actual contents are posted along with the file.
See my application is like this:
User can submit any attachment and can view all the attachments
submitted by other users.
Attachment contents can be anything.
So where should I store the attachment 1)In database 2)In a file on
server


From val at vtek.com  Tue Mar  9 09:06:19 2004
From: val at vtek.com (Val Bykoski)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 06:06:19 -0800
Subject: dynamic names
References: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>
	<c2gck2$1mu$03$2@news.t-online.com>
	<uZMTAls/K/2R089yn@the-wire.com>
	<c2inf4$mol$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <a312aab6.0403090606.2a691af4@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de> wrote in message news:<c2inf4$mol$04$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Mel Wilson wrote:
> 
> > tot = tot + eval ("L%s" % L)
> > exec is a statement.
> 
> Yup - OPs wrong usage of exec confused me on that one. Thanks for pointing
> it out.

Thanks so much you guys for all your help and advice.  
Now i understand much better my problem (i didn't before!) 
and love Python even more.
enjoying-to-learn-from-great-community-ly y'rs,
val


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Mar 27 03:47:00 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:47:00 +0100
Subject: Converting IBM Floats..Help..
References: <mailman.406.1080229247.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40641706$0$133$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<1069j3h2kb44909@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40653fa6$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>> Some time ago there was a question on this group about 4-byte IBM
>> floats, and maybe questions about other formats will follow in the
>> future. Here's a flexible -but possibly slow?- approach to handle
>> these kind of problems. It uses a stream of bytes (a file for example)
>> as input and returns a series of floats.
>
>There are only the two legacy formats. More recent
>IBM mainframes also support standard IEEE-488 floating
>point, which should provide no difficulty whatsoever in
>converting.

No byte borders anymore. I'm redefining the world and you are still
talking about IBM-floats?

Anton


From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Wed Mar  3 13:15:44 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:15:44 +0000
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
Message-ID: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>


Hi all,

I am totally hooked on what I have learned about python.  I am going to use
it to develop a simple data entry app I need for some financial record
keeping.

I understand tkinter is official and simple to use, but many who use
wxPython swear by it, and it is gaining ground.

I would like to run on any platform, but that's not critical.  What I want
to do is support an app that will grow over time, and should look clean.  I
don't want to spend lots of time maintaining GUI code rather than app logic.

Can anyone offer any advice?

jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 18 16:46:36 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:46:36 +0200
Subject: shutils.move lose files !
In-Reply-To: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>
References: <409a56e2.0403180527.29c851a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3d5e0$in8$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello Shagshag,
>>>>import os
>>>>os.mkdir('c:/stupid')
>>>>open('c:/stupid/atest.txt', 'w').write('a file')
>>>>os.listdir('c:/stupid')
> 
> ['atest.txt']
> 
>>>>import shutil
>>>>shutil.move('c:/stupid', 'c:/stupid/donotexist')
>>>>os.listdir('c:/stupid')
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#22>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     os.listdir('c:/stupid')
> WindowsError: [Errno 3] Le chemin d'acc?s sp?cifi? est introuvable:
> 'c:/stupid/*.*'
 >>> from os import mkdir, listdir
 >>> from shutil import move
 >>> mkdir("c:/temp/xxx")
 >>> open("c:/temp/xxx/moo", "w").write("moo")
 >>> move("c:/temp/xxx/moo", "c:/temp/xxx/goo")
 >>> listdir("c:/temp/xxx")
['goo']
 >>>

This is on win2k
Miki


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 12 03:41:54 2004
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:41:54 +0000
Subject: An XML parser is an XML parser.  Period.
References: <mailman.1428.1076438817.12720.python-list@python.org>
	<402931E4.C1E50E92@engcorp.com> <c0beqb$2uv$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40294322.7AF2C6D7@engcorp.com> <c0bh63$jp2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40294D36.B0AEE3C4@engcorp.com> <c0do15$tge$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<402A69C2.FC8DABA@engcorp.com> <402A84FF.42CCB137@hotmail.com>
	<402A87FD.5879C6DC@engcorp.com>
	<d116fbae.0402120629.330062bb@posting.google.com>
	<c2qugb$1qlh$1@pc-news.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <KDdTHXASfXUAFwLu@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <c2qugb$1qlh$1 at pc-news.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>, Richard Tobin
<richard at cogsci.ed.ac.uk> writes
>> So once more: AFAICT PyRXPU is an XML parser.  PyRXP is certainly not
>> an XML parser.  The substrate RXP is not an XML parser either when
>> compiled without Unicode support and although I respect Thompson and
>> Tobin as much as I do the PyRXP developers, they were really confusing
>> themselves and others when they said "It complies fully with the W3C
>> test suites (although we have compiled it without Unicode support for
>> the time being)."
>
>Sorry to respond to a thread long after its sell-by date.
>
>Just for the record, the statement above was made by the PyRXP people,
>not us.  RXP's 8-bit mode exists because it was originally written to
>replace a "normalized SGML" parser in an existing (8-bit) application.
>I wouldn't recommend compiling it in that mode for any except the most
>constrained applications.
>
>-- Richard
I guess that's why there are now two versions pyRXP & pyRXPU. Personally
I find XML pretty awful as a lingua franca, but everyone else seems to
think it's the new sliced bread. As to whether RXP is a good 'parser' my
latest test of pyRXPU (RXP 1.3.0) with James Clark's XML Test Cases
version 1998-11-18 gives

Ran 373 tests in 1.282s

FAILED (failures=2, errors=1)

Clearly I have some way to go and we'll have to work harder.
-- 
Robin Becker


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 13 19:56:23 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 19:56:23 -0500
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c30ajn$o3e$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059 at fe3.columbus.rr.com>,
kbass <kbass at midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>
>I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job market
>looks for programming using Python. I really don't see many jobs
>(probably one or two) that require Python experience at all. Most DBA
>and SA positions that I have seen require Perl and most development
>position require Java or C++ so how can learning Python benefit my
>career if there are little to no chance that an employer will require
>the use of Python or consider using Python over other programming
>languages such as Java?

Have you looked at http://www.python.org/Jobs.html ?

In general, jobs that require programming but not as a primary skill
(such as DBA and SA positions) allow one the opportunity to add Python
gradually and silently.  They're easier than straight programming jobs in
some respects because projects tend to be smaller and less visible.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 20 19:45:22 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:45:22 -0800
Subject: file.tell() ?
References: <731b3eeb.0403201635.8fa84d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405CE5A2.E07A692D@alcyone.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:

> The reason I ask is, I have a very large file to parse line by line.
> I thought I'd try and use an iterator, but it looks like the iterator
> is really reading the entire file into memory before it starts
> iterating.  So my best option is still to use file.readline().
> 
> Am I understanding this correctly?  Am I using the iterator
> incorrectly?

The iterating methods of file input tend to buffer input, so calling
things like .tell or additionally trying to read data manually is not
going to work properly.

If it's important to you that you have total control over the current
"read pointer" in the file, call .readline manually.  If you don't care
and just want to read through everything, use the iterators.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.
    -- Andrew A. Rooney


From demian0311 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 21:13:18 2004
From: demian0311 at yahoo.com (demian neidetcher)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 18:13:18 -0800
Subject: vim & python
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1668af80.0403041813.354d19d6@posting.google.com>

> Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
> vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
> docs, books or tutorials)

i'm not using the built-in integration that can be built into vim.  my
vim scripting with python is really just re-directing lines in a file
from vim thru a python script that reads from std in (your code from
vim) and writes to std out (the results replace your old lines).

here are some scripts i have, might give you an idea of what i'm
doing.
http://www.ophinity.com/papers/wrangling/index.html


From owp at utanet.at  Tue Mar 16 06:09:48 2004
From: owp at utanet.at (Simon Erikson)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 03:09:48 -0800
Subject: wxPython "Frames within Frames"
Message-ID: <d6d37f8e.0403160309.665753b7@posting.google.com>

Hello:

I would like to build an app consisting of a "root" frame that can
contain an arbitrary number of child frames (the user will click to
create them).  Each of these child frames needs the full functionality
of a frame (title,menu,status bars, min,max,close icons, scroll bars,
sizing, moving).  In addition, the user must be able to create
grandchild frames within these child frames, to an arbitrary depth (in
practice limited to 10 or so).

As I understand it, MDI provides the means of creating the root and
first generation frames, but not the further generations.

I found this at 'http://www.orbtech.com/www/wx/epydoc/public/wx.Frame-class.htm'
A frame is a window whose size and position can (usually) be changed
by the user. It usually has thick borders and a title bar, and can
optionally contain a menu bar, toolbar and status bar.
A frame can contain any window that is not a frame or dialog.

Does this last sentence mean my quest is hopeless?  Can someone please
help me?

Thanks - Simon.


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar 11 19:44:23 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:44:23 +0200
Subject: wrestling with unittest paths..needs suggestions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.281.1079033017.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.281.1079033017.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405107E7.9020307@zoran.com>

Hello Vincent,

> path to main class... say: 
> 
> path = /home/workspace/src/foo
> There is a module Foo.py
> /home/workspace/src/foo/Foo.py
> 
> My unittest is in:
> /home/workspace/src/test/foo
> so:
> /home/workspace/src/test/foo/FooTest.py
Usually the `test' directory is under the source directory 
(/home/workspace/src/foo/test), this simplifies things.

> import os, sys
> testpath = os.path.abspath('/home/workspace/src/foo')
> sys.path.append(testpath)
> 
> Well, it works but if I have to do that for every test module that I write.. 
> Very nasty..
Have a look at python's test suite for a good example 
(/usr/lib/python23/test). There is one `test_support.py' module that 
each test import. If you need you can fix the path in this module only. 
If you use foo/test then just write `sys.path.append("..")' in 
test_support.py

HTH.
Miki



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 27 20:35:43 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:35:43 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:25:11 +0100, Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
<dialton3.NOSPAM#_ME_TAG#@virgilio.it> wrote:

>Anyway GvR just posted on the python-dev saying this:
>
>==
>No, I want to reserve the leading dot for attribute assignment to a
>special object specified by a 'with' statement, e.g.
>
>with self:
>    .foo = [1, 2, 3]
>    .bar(4, .foo)
>==

I missed that. There's good precedent - it's the Pascal 'with' block,
but better (the leading dot tells you that you're dealing with a
'with' item rather than normal scoping rules). But - well - just
recently, people keep telling me that indented blocks are purely about
control flow. I keep disagreeing, but no-one has bothered agreeing
with me so I was feeling rather lonely and miserable in this crusade
:-(

A 'with' block clearly has nothing at all to do with control flow. All
it does is provide some kind of local context for the contents of the
block. Very much like a suggestion or two that I have made recently
(none of which all that original, as far as I can tell).

Nonetheless, I will object. The with block, in this form, provides an
abbreviated alias for one identifier. Zero length is quite severely
abbreviated, of course, but better 'compression' could frequently be
achieved by abbreviating two or more identifiers.

For general applications, I'd rather have a small blocks and a simple
alias facility. An alias would never make it into dictionaries - it
would be handled entirely by the compiler. For example...

  someverylongname = 1

  block :
    alias x = someverylongname

    x = 2

  print someverylongname  #  result is '2'

Depending on how the alias was implemented, it might also be possible
to alias certain kinds of expression...

  alias x = someobj.someobj.membername

I wouldn't allow arbitrary expressions here, and it raises questions
about when the alias is bound to the referenced object which start to
push things towards normal identifiers so I'd have serious thoughts,
but there are cases that are probably worth considering where an alias
could reasonably be bound by the compiler without needing to insert
anything into any runtime dictionaries.

The trouble is that doing something like that would probably be
difficult as the compiler would need dictionary-like symbol tables
above and beyond what exists in the runtime environment, and the
run-time environment would have to provide for storage beyond what is
held in the normal dictionaries.

Anyway, personally, I'd say the prefix dot should be reserved for
'self' if used at all. It will certainly be by far the most common
case, perhaps to the point that people will assume 'self' as soon as
they see the prefix dot, which means that readability will be affected
by using 'with' for other variables. And if using 'with' for anything
other than 'self' creates readability issues and gets to be considered
bad style, the 'with' line itself is redundant.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From peter at semantico.com  Fri Mar 12 04:42:12 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:42:12 +0000
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <405185f5$0$16368$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 3. Spend a month teaching her object orientation with C++.

Perhaps Ruby for the OO stuff if you are familier with it. Less gotcha's 
than C++. All depends on the sort of person she is.

A wide range of programming languages is always a good idea. How about 
Prolog just for the hell of it?


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Mar 24 00:20:34 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 21:20:34 -0800
Subject: PEP 318 - posting draft
References: <mailman.292.1080061340.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403232120.28f166dc@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.292.1080061340.742.python-list at python.org>...
> Here's the current state of PEP 318. 
<supercut>

I have no strong opinion about "[]" vs. "as", so brackets can go.
However, may I suggest that (for Python 2.4) we only implement 
single decorators for functions only? The order of application in the 
case of multiple decorators is not obvious and actually I am not convinced 
the current proposal is the best one for the multiple decorator case. 
So, I will stick to the original PEP request (single decorators for
functions) for Python 2.4, leaving further extensions
(I want further extensions, but not *right* now) for the future.
We need more thinking and experience with the multiple decorator
syntax before adding it to the language.

Just my $0.02,

                             Michele Simionato


From altis at semi-retired.com  Wed Mar 17 13:31:41 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:31:41 -0800
Subject: simple http server
References: <c39rul$dri$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <WL06c.57$uQ6.23978@news.uswest.net>


"Gelo Ilzi" <geloilzi at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c39rul$dri$1 at news2.netvision.net.il...
> I'm trying to implement a very simple http server with cgi functionality.
> The code is simple:
>
>    import CGIHTTPServer, BaseHTTPServer
>    httpd = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(('',8000),
> CGIHTTPServer.CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
>    httpd.serve_forever()
>
> I've created a subdir 'cgi-bin' which contains a python script. Now when I
> enter this directory, i.e., go to the url http://localhost:8000/cgi-bin/
my
> browser shows:
>
>    Error response
>    Error code 403.
>    Message: CGI script is not a plain file ('/cgi-bin/').
>    Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will
not
> help.
>
> Plain html pages are ok.
>
> It seems I misunderstand something very basical. Could somebody help me
> please.
>
> Thank you in advance.

That is correct behavior, you can't browse the cgi-bin directory. Put a CGI
script in that directory like the one below to dump the environment
variables and then go directly to that URL. Depending on your platform and
location of Python, you might have to change the first line, but this will
verify your CGIs are working.

ka
---

#!/usr/local/bin/python
print "Content-type: text/html\r\n\r\n",
print '<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">'
print "<html><body>"
print "<pre>"
import os, sys
from cgi import escape
print "<strong>Python %s</strong>" % sys.version
keys = os.environ.keys()
keys.sort()
for k in keys:
    print "%s\t%s" % (escape(k), escape(os.environ[k]))
print "</pre>"
print "</body></html>"




From savieg at stadt.duesseldorf.de  Wed Mar 24 11:02:19 2004
From: savieg at stadt.duesseldorf.de (savieg at stadt.duesseldorf.de)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:02:19 +0100
Subject: !!Virus gefunden!!
Message-ID: <20040324160727.5528E409E2@mail02.duesseldorf.de>

Es wurde ein Virus in Ihrer E-Mail gefunden:

--- Scan information follows ---

Result: Virus Detected
Virus Name: W32.Mydoom.F at mm
File Attachment: svtbkc.zip
Attachment Status: deleted

--- Original message information follows ---

From: python-list at python.org
To: heinrichh at intramail.stv-ddorf.de
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:07:19 -0600
Subject: STOLEN
Message-Id: <20040324160723.D94B75CEF1 at mail01.duesseldorf.de>
Received: from mail01.duesseldorf.de ([194.113.247.113])
 by SAVIEG.stv-ddorf.de (SAVSMTP 3.1.1.32) with SMTP id M2004032417021911043
 for <heinrichh at intramail.stv-ddorf.de>; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:02:19 +0100




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Mar 30 08:14:29 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:14:29 +0200
Subject: marshalling python data structures in php
References: <930ba99a.0403292243.2d5d3997@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4bs2t$2fv6qa$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> any thoughts?

Use xmlrpc or soap or corba - these are designed for inter-language
operations. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From molivier at caregroup.harvard.edu  Sat Mar 13 17:36:41 2004
From: molivier at caregroup.harvard.edu (supportgeek)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 14:36:41 -0800
Subject: read/enter text based on cursor position
Message-ID: <da063e5d.0403131436.355454d1@posting.google.com>

Greetings.

Would anyone know the right direction to point me on this one?

I need to read text from a Windows Application based on cursor
position.
And enter text based on what is read.

Example:(the interface of the windows application would look something
like this.)

-----------------------------------
Windows Application               X
-----------------------------------
Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
-----------------------------------

I need to scan the application for address - and put in my address,
etc...
Right now I am using sendkeys but it really isn't cutting it)

The only part I need help on in this is getting the location of where
it says address, or whatever field is the case.

I was thinking it might be possible to somehow read to the left based
on cursor position. If anyone could point me in the right direction I
would appreciate it.

Thanks in Advance.

Mike


From http  Thu Mar  4 11:52:26 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2004 08:52:26 -0800
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com> <c1obji$8m9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c@posting.google.com>
	<7xad2x5wfm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<23891c90.0403040241.60eb33a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x7jy0o8qd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:
> As a PHP replacement, I'd argue that a number of existing frameworks
> are good and obvious enough - cue developer adverts for Spyce,
> CherryPy, etc. ;-) 

While those are nice pieces of code, they're not in the official
distribution, which means they're a separate point of failure for
maintenance, security auditing, and so forth.  I.e., if you're trying
to pitch Python for some project and convince management that it's
secure and adequately maintained, you now have to separately make the
exact same pitch for Spyce.  And you then have to pick out a database
interface layer and make another separate pitch for THAT.  With PHP,
pitch once, get a yes or no, and you're done.

And no, that's NOT a pointy-haired boss problem, those are real
issues, not bureaucrats being stupid.

> With the PSP support in mod_python, I'd argue that
> the bar has been lowered further.

I'm not familiar with this and will have to check into it further.

> But in the short to medium term, expect better application
> portability between frameworks - the need to run various popular
> applications in different environments is making itself increasingly
> evident.

You mean the problems of having a "multitude" of environments are
making themselves evident.  If Python is to have anything like PHP's
wide deployment for web apps, the maintainers have to pick one of
those environments (probably Zope, I guess), include it in the
official Python distribution and declare it to be under official
maintenance, and do the same for a database interface.  To first
approximation, if something isn't in the official distribution, it
doesn't exist.  

> > > We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
> > > for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
> > > obvious choice, and officially endorsed?
> > 
> > That's precisely the situation Python is in now!
> 
> Really? At the fundamental level, the DB-API is pretty well
> standardised, and there's a collection of well-written modules that
> mostly adhere to it.

Nope.  Look in the Python distribution, there's nothing like that
there, and similarly in the Python reference manual.  Yeah, there's
some random third party modules and docs, but see above, those don't
exist ;-).


From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Mar 25 09:29:19 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:29:19 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
In-Reply-To: <c3uolr$gds$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>	<c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3udfo$icq$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<4062BF09.1070906@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<c3uk3u$57a$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3ulvf$ral$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<c3uolr$gds$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3uqb0$7a8$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Peter Otten a ?crit :
> Yermat wrote:
> 
> 
>>take care with that kind of comparisons...
> 
> 
> I'll add a disclaimer next time :-)
> 
> 
>>Especially look at the last two comparison ! the only difference is the
>>construction of the list...
>>
>>so what ? "Beautiful is better than ugly"
>>Make your choice ;-)
> 
> 
> I should have made explicit my "result" that timing doesn't matter much (I
> think) in this case.

I think too. That should only be implementation detail...

>>[..]
>>timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunksiter"
>>"list(chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2))"
>>100000 loops, best of 3: 11.8 usec per loop
>>
>>timeit.py -s"from chunk import chunksiter" "[ x for x in
>>chunksiter('aabbccddee', 2)]"
>>100000 loops, best of 3: 15.2 usec per loop
> 
> 
> These last two timings are useless. The following (and two nested loops
> without continue in either loop or break in the inner loop) is the only
> sane use case:
> 
> 
>>>>[list(ch) for ch in chunks.chunksiter("aabbccdd", 2)]
> 
> [['a', 'a'], ['b', 'b'], ['c', 'c'], ['d', 'd']]
> 
> 
> Looks reasonable. Now let's separate the above in two steps:
> 
> 
>>>>lst = [ch for ch in chunks.chunksiter("aabbccdd", 2)]
>>>>map(list, lst)
> 
> [['a'], ['a'], ['b'], ['b'], ['c'], ['c'], ['d'], ['d']]
> 
> 
> Did you expect that? Errorprone indeed. Of course you could use tee() from
> the itertools example page to make it more robust, but I would expect even
> more overhead...

Well done ! I missed that point !
Make it simple... Finally the chunklist or chunks are my favorite for 
general chunk function. For string I would have use the regexp anyway...

Who want to make a web site with python challenge like that one ? ;-)

yermat



From mstenner at ece.arizona.edu  Sat Mar 13 15:11:48 2004
From: mstenner at ece.arizona.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:11:48 -0700
Subject: pre-processing source from distutils
Message-ID: <c2vpuk$lht$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>

Is it possible to pre-process source code from distutils?  I don't want 
to do anything too fancy.  I just want to put the VERSION from setup.py 
(and maybe a date) into the module at sdist or build time (I haven't 
decided which of those would be cleaner).  Anybody know of a clean way 
to do this?

I don't mind writing an arbitrarily complex function to edit files or 
whatever.  The problem is getting it called at the right time and 
knowing what mode setup.py is being called in.

                                    Thanks,
                                     Michael



From hjwidmaier at web.de  Thu Mar 18 14:53:47 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:53:47 +0100
Subject: Perceived optparse shortcomings
References: <6e990e29.0403162320.584328ea@posting.google.com>
	<m2u10nzj69.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<mailman.89.1079537794.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.18.19.53.46.523735@web.de>

Am Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:36:24 -0600 schrieb Skip Montanaro:

> The main program plucks <subcmd> from that list and then passes the
> remaining args to the appropriate subcommand, which calls getopt again with
> the list equivalent of
> 
>     <subcmd options> <args>
> 
> I don't know if that's possible with optparse, but if so, that's the route
> I'd try first.

After some small changes to optparse, it is. It's the route I went, and
I'm satisfied with the result.

Hans-J.


From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Mon Mar 29 21:04:15 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:04:15 +0800
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <c48oi3$59$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <000c01c415fb$4f6a5600$0000fea9@simonxp>

>A list 10 million integers suck up ~160 megs of memory with Python.

Sorting a list of 10000000 integers sounds like a job for Numeric.

The below code does the job in 22 seconds. Numeric consumes ~40MB for
the initial array, then grabs another ~40MB, once the sorting starts.
Its about as lean as you can get it.

-------cut-here--------------------------
import Numeric
import RandomArray
import time
print "creating array...",
r = RandomArray.binomial((4294967294/2), .5, 10000000)
print "done."
s = time.clock()
print "sorting array...",
Numeric.sort(r)
print "done."
print "finding duplicates..."
ou = r[0]
dc = 0
for u in r[1:]:
    if u == ou: dc += 1
    else: ou = u
print "done. (%d) duplicates." % dc
print "completed in ", time.clock() - s,  "seconds."
-------cut-here--------------------------

Output:
creating array... done.
sorting array... done.
finding duplicates...
done. (278) duplicates.
completed in  22.2402900369 seconds




From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Sat Mar 13 20:56:30 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:56:30 -0600
Subject: Python & the job market
References: <a1N4c.13582$8G2.5059@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<16467.45496.356599.481075@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <01b001c40967$93707a00$97443d42@homebass1>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: "kbass" <kbass at midsouth.rr.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Python & the job market


>
>     kbass> I am starting to learn Python but I want to know how the job
>     kbass> market looks for programming using Python.
>
> Better than a year ago.  I don't know what it is in overall numbers, but
> it definitely seems to be growing.
>
>     kbass> I really don't see many jobs (probably one or two) that require
>     kbass> Python experience at all.
>
> Have you checked out
>
>     http://www.python.org/Jobs.html
>
> and the job sites it refers to?
>
>     kbass> Most DBA and SA positions that I have seen require Perl and
most
>     kbass> development position require Java or C++ ...
>
> This is not surprising.  These languages all have larger installed bases
> than Python.
>
>     kbass> ... so how can learning Python benefit my career if there are
>     kbass> little to no chance that an employer will require the use of
>     kbass> Python or consider using Python over other programming
languages
>     kbass> such as Java?
>
> A fair number of us have figured out ways to do that.  Here are some
> suggestions:
>
>     * Get a job which is nominally not a programming position (say, sys
>       admin).  For the little bits and pieces you wind up writing to do
your
>       job better use Python, then make them available to your fellow sys
>       admins.
>
>     * Infiltrate a job for which another programming language is
"required".
>       Then start looking here
>
>         http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonAdvocacy
>
>       for ways to convince your colleagues that Python might be a better
>       choice for some things.
>
>     * Hang out your shingle as an independent consultant.
>
>     * Got some good ideas and some good skills?  Check out Mark
>       Shuttleworth's bounties page:
>
>         http://www.markshuttleworth.com/bounty.html
>
> You have to be a bit more patient and creative, but it's definitely
> possible.
>
> Skip
>

I have experience about 4 years of Java experience (designed and developed
numerous projects as a consultant in the past), 10+ years of Oracle
experience, about 5 years of Perl experience so programming is not a problem
. I guess my main point that I should have touch upon was learning Python
and influencing management to go the Python route in a company where Java is
the standard.

The Python Advocacy site is a good starting point to achieve the goal of
influencing direct management but influencing other programmers could be an
endeavor within itself too. One to five programmers developing in Python
would be considered 'rouge programmers' at my company so convincing Java and
VB programs to use Python will be a definite challenge.

It took me about 2 to 4 months to successfully influence management that
Linux AS was a direction that our departmental server should be but
influencing them about Python maybe an uphill battle due to other I.T.
departments and non-I.T. departments using Java and VB.  I am up for the
challenge.

I reviewed the projects on Mark Shuttleworth's bounties page and I think
that I will attempt to do some research and try one soon.

kbass




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sat Mar 27 05:07:34 2004
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:07:34 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40655266$0$557$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
>> What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
>> use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
>> some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
>> to be just templates to produce other objects.
> 
> Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)

The implementation of indentation is a minor issue.
Many editors have facilities to deal with them.
The point is that Prothon uses indentation. I hope 
this will help in making it at least as easy to read
and maintain as Python. Who knows, at some point Prothon
might 'fall back' to spaces...

I like the prototypes _very_ much. They leave out many of the
implicit mechanisms in classes and they are relatively easy
to explain.

My first impression is that one can use prototypes like classes,
but they allow more flexibility. I wonder what influence they
will have on the classic class/object dichotomy in OO land.

As for the 'with' statement: I remember getting introduced to it
in Pascal, where it led to confusion an did not contribute to
code readability because of that. Pascal allowed more than
one variable to be used in the 'with' statement iirc.

On the contrary, the examples in Prothon are quite readable:
no confusion because there is only one implied variable, and
there is syntax (the leading dot) to show where it is used.

I do not yet know in detail how Prothon deals with module
namespaces. These are important for larger scale programs,
so I hope they got that right.

One thing I'm missing on the website is support for basic
structured datatypes like the list and the dictionary in Python.
The syntax support that Python has for these greatly
contributes to useability.

Regards,
Ype



From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Wed Mar 24 14:35:28 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:35:28 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0403240124.2a80e784@posting.google.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403240124.2a80e784@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4ql8c.42261$ct5.13462@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Trevor Perrin] 
> 
>>I'm proposing that getrandstring() (returning a string) is a better 
>>primitive than getrandbits() (returning a long). 
> [...]
> 
> Sorry, I do not think that introducing a string method into an
> otherwise numeric module would make it easier to use.

Okay.


> What might be nice is if longs had methods for converting to and from
> bytestrings.  

I was thinking the same.  How about something like:

   bigNumber = long(bigNumberString, 256)

   bigNumberString = bigNumber.tostring()

The string->long conversion treats a big-endian byte string as "base 
256", and converts it to a non-negative integer.

The long->string conversion would only work on non-negative integers. 
It's 'inspired' by the array module's "tostring()" method, which returns 
a similarly low-level string.

Big-endian seems the common way to do this, at least in cryptography, in 
the common ASN.1 encodings, and in the libraries I've seen.


Trevor






From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 20 07:26:17 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:26:17 -0800
Subject: \r\n problem in cgi module?
References: <ba1e306f.0403200359.4a11f60c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405C3869.84308C6A@alcyone.com>

Jane Austine wrote:

> The HTML page includes:
> 
> <textarea name="text" cols="80" rows="5"></textarea>
> 
> Then I extract the "text" as such:
> 
> f=cgi.FieldStorage()
> text=f['text'].value
> 
> The surprise is "text" contains "\r\n" instead of "\n", when running
> on windows.
> 
> Why does this happen, and what am I supposed to do? Isn't cgi module
> supposed to provide "universal_new_line"?

CGI has a weird specification where textareas are supposed to be
delimited with CR LF, regardless of the platform.  Weird, I know, but
the CGI module isn't wrong here.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Nobody can reach me, nobody can touch me; it's a wonderful
    feeling. -- Aaliyah


From shane at zope.com  Fri Mar 26 09:54:33 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:54:33 -0500
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403260929460.6527-100000@shane.zope.com>
References: <6E57243C-7EF3-11D8-8D1D-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>
	<Pine.LNX.4.50.0403260929460.6527-100000@shane.zope.com>
Message-ID: <40644429.3060201@zope.com>

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> 
> 
>>On 25-mrt-04, at 22:11, Shane Hathaway wrote:
>>
>>>I just thought of a better way to write this.
>>>
>>>    myHandlers = {}
>>>    myHandlers["click"] = def(x,y):
>>>        print "click at x,y"
>>>    myHandlers["enter"] = def():
>>>        print "mouse entered"
>>>    myHandlers["exit"] = def():
>>>        print "mouse exited"
>>>
>>>I think that's pretty nice.
>>
>>And how would you write in-line callbacks for functions that take 
>>multiple callbacks (such as an on-success and on-error handler)?
> 
> 
> I would write a class.
> 
> obj.add_listener(class):
>     def on_success(self):
>         print 'yay!'
>     def on_error(self):
>         print 'ohh.'

Oops, that's not quite correct.  It should pass an instance rather than 
a class.

obj.add_listener((class)()):
     def on_success(self):
         print 'yay!'
     def on_error(self):
         print 'ohh.'

That's not pretty. :-(

Shane



From sean at sands.beach.net  Thu Mar 25 17:28:28 2004
From: sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:28:28 GMT
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument
References: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <g2J8c.3479$GH3.2493@fed1read07>

In article <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601 at fed1read07>,
	sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry) writes:
> I don't know that this partilarily bad programming, 
> but I was interested in doing the following.
> 
> def functionname( module, var1, var2 ):
> 	import module
> 
> I would like to be able to pass the module name
> as an argument and have the module imported as a result.
> 
> For instance... functionname( os, "1", 234)
> 
> Thanks for any help.

Thanks for the help, and exec("import "+modname)
does indeed import the module.

But, what if I want to call a function from within this
module that takes as an argument the name of a module.

For example if I was making a module like the following

import inspect

def functionname( modname ):
	exec("import "+modname)
	s = inspect.getsource( modname )
	return s

How do I cast modname as a module name and not as a string?

Thanks.



--	 


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 22 02:25:12 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:25:12 -0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c3ki5j$28tkdb$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tdk1j1-ev9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3lik9$28qgsp$2@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ivg2j1-b0c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> So we can't even count on the fact that Python 2.2 running under Windows
> on an Athlon will generate a .pyc file that's identical with that
> generated by the exact same version (2.2) of the interpreter running
> under Linux on, say, a Pentium III, and further, is not even *guaranteed*
> to run on it?!?

There are no guarantees that the same .pyc files will work the next day
with the same interpretter.  The interpretter could change the format
every single day if the implementor so wanted.

> This does not seem to fit in with what I've been reading... it would
> be a lot more logical (and convenient) if we can count on .pyc portability
> across different _patch versions_ (.x.y) of the same minor version (.x)
> of CPython on whatever platform it is running on,

Now in practise the .pyc files are not changed every day because there
is no need, but an implementation is free to do so.  In many cases they
are the same between platforms and minor versions, but that is not
a specification or a requirement.

> and I believe that
> Python's contributors would make an effort to ensure that this is the case.

Why?  To distribute executable Python code, you distribute the .py files.
To distribute executable Java code, you distribute .class files.  They
can be wrapped up in .zip and .jar archives respectively.

Java is defined as a compiled language.  Python is not a compiled
language, although an implementation is free to do so.  If you really
really want a compiled form of Python, try Jython which compiles to
Java .class files.

Roger




From jacob at cd.chalmers.se  Fri Mar 19 18:59:38 2004
From: jacob at cd.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 23:59:38 GMT
Subject: Europython Call for Participation
Message-ID: <mailman.1079795221.32416.clpa-moderators@python.org>

EuroPython 2004 to be held 7-9 June in G?teborg, Sweden.

The EuroPython conference will have tracks for Science, Business,
Education, Applications, Frameworks, Zope and the Python language
itself. Lightning talks, Open Space and BOF sessions are also planned.

There will be tutorials as well, both for newcomers to Python and
Python users interested in special subjects. In the days before and
after the conference, programming sprints will be arranged.

In the call for participation prospective speakers are welcomed to
give either a formal, refereed paper or a less formal regular
presentation.

"We see a lot of interest in this years conference even before
officially announcing it, with people asking for accomodation
information, wanting to give talks and volunteering for other tasks",
says Jacob Hall?n, head organiser.

"We hope that people will stay for a few days after the conference to
join spontaneously organised programming sprints", says Laura
Creighton, sprint coordinator. "Sprints are fun, and we will have good
facilities for them."

Important dates

    * Refereed paper proposals: 19 March - 31 March
    * Submission of talks: 19 March - 15 April.
    * Early Bird registration: 31 March - 1 May.


For more information and submission forms, please visit

http://www.europython.org

-- 



From ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk  Tue Mar 23 04:37:56 2004
From: ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk (Ray Molacha)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:37:56 GMT
Subject: Newbie Formatting Question
References: <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680@news.teleline.es>
	<m27jxcphiw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <MPG.1aca16b627168376989682@news.teleline.es>

Hi Heather.

Thanks for that very clear explanation -- and thanks for the nice 
example of a dynamically generated format specification.

(BTW, I'm the original poster, I was just posting from the wrong 
identity.)

Ray


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Mar 22 19:34:08 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:34:08 -0500
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <405F8600.3020703@rogers.com>

To the best of my knowledge, there's only a few where the engine itself 
is written in Python:

    * Alice -- I believe early versions used to be written in Python to
      a Direct3D API, think they've been moving away from that in later
      versions, possibly toward a Java implementation?
    * OpenGLContext -- my testing/demo environment for PyOpenGL, which
      is based loosely on a VRML97 scenegraph model (and includes simple
      VRML97 loaders and the like).
          o Provides Transform,Group,Switch,
            PointLight,SpotLight,DirectionalLight, Background, Shape,
            Appearance, Material, ImageTexture, TextureTransform,
            IndexedFaceSet, IndexedLineSet, PointSet, Box, Sphere, Text,
            FontStyle, Polyline2D, NurbsCurve2D, Contour2D,
            NurbsSurface,TrimmedSurface, and NurbsCurve nodes (some with
            only partial support, it should be noted)
          o Has basic navigation, polygon tessellation, transparency and
            selection passes
    * ZOE is apparently written in Python, never played with it.  Claims
      to focus on wireframes and particle systems.
    * VisualPython (VPython) may have some significant portion of the
      code in Python, but I can't say how much (or indeed whether there
      is any).

However, these engines (save maybe ZOE, about which I know next to 
nothing) are focused primarily on teaching, rather than game or 
application development.  Particularly given your legendarily high 
standards, I think you'll find that none are sufficient for your needs 
wrt building practical 3D apps in Python.  The collective wisdom on that 
would seem to be "wrap a C/C++ engine if you need any sort of 
interactive speed on a non-trivial application".

If you do find any other engines, consider adding them to the list here:
    http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks
(the formatting is messed up, but the information is often useful).

Take care,
Mike

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

>I am looking for open source 3D applications written primarily in Python.
>Not Python scripted, but rather, Python as the primary means of development,
>dropping to C++ or C only when necessary for efficiency.  Any pointers
>appreciated.  Surveys of leading open source 3D engines, such as Nebula and
>Crystal Space, haven't yielded anything.  I'm now starting to look at
>non-game applications.
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Wed Mar 24 02:45:31 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:45:31 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <jN98c.13979$JB2.2819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
	<YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<c3r2vq$3ci$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<jN98c.13979$JB2.2819@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c3rego$eeq$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> If the generator is something like /dev/urandom or Win32's 
> CryptGenRandom, you don't want the repeated system call overhead of 
> dipping into it 32 bits at a time.
> 
> (I made the mistake of getting a byte at a time out of CryptGenRandom 
> once, for a few hundred bytes of RSA padding, and it was a big 
> performance hit).

Do like a standard file read does, buffer some extra bytes for the 
future, 4k should be sufficient for most needs.


> But you don't need getrandbits().
[snip]
> I argue that getrandstring() makes more sense than getrandbits() in both 
> the API and SPI.
> 
> In the API, getrandstring() could be used for cryptographic keys, for 
> example.  In contrast, getrandbits() is not a useful API function, since 
> the API already offers randint().
> 
> As for the SPI, currently there is random() and getrandbits().  These 
> require every new generator to be able to produce floats and 
> arbitrary-sized longs.
> 
> Most generators are oriented towards producing strings of bits or bytes 
> (M-T produces a sequence of 32-bit values, for example), so it would be 
> easier for them to implement getrandstring() and let the base class 
> handle conversion.

As provided, using bits or bytes, it is easy to convert either way. 
While there are sources that are better suited for generating bytes 
(which you provide), there are entropy producers that give bits at a 
time.  If I remember correctly, there is a serial port, USB, processor 
and even chipset entropy generators that all produce bits (some faster 
than others).

Personally, I find bits far more useful, because while I can do binary 
operations on long integers, strings don't have |,^,&.


>> On a relatively unrelated note, I'm leaning toward trying to get the 
>> benefits of both SHA and MT with the following, though I lack the 
>> heavy mathematical background to prove whether it is better than either.

> I agree with Paul, there's no need to combine them.  The only benefit of 
> MT vs. a SHA-based generator is speed.

I could have sworn the other was that MT had cycle that seemed to be 
provably longer than any pure SHA based generator.

I will also point out that Raymond had offered a generator using MD5 
(which Paul gave us a link to showing that it was all but broken) that 
really just used MD5 as a bit twiddler to take 128 bits of MT to get 53 
bits of output.  The bit of code I offered merely goes a step further 
and uses SHA as a bit twiddler to take 160 bits of MT and 104 bits of 
previous state to get 53 bits of output.

Taking 160 bits of MT reduces the cycle to 1/5 of its original period, 
but I would expect that the output of the SHA digest to not cycle for 
some nontrivial number of MT cycles, unless SHA and MT are internally 
doing something quite similar (I don't believe this is the case).

  - Josiah


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Mon Mar 15 16:04:44 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:04:44 -0800
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.349.1079161675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c355uv$b9t$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed, and
> so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is there
> something like it in Python?

No.

> Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> important requirement in a language?

No.

  - Josiah


From dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 19:01:47 2004
From: dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clak)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 00:01:47 GMT
Subject: Cgi: Print Text files with wordwrap!
References: <Xns94A8A266DCF19GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>
Message-ID: <Xns94A8F2937636daleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>

Walter Huf pushed the bounds of literature with:

> Okay, I'm writing a cgi program, and I can send files and stuff, but
> how do I send text files with word wrap enabled? If a line of text is
> wider than the browser, and unsightly scrollbar appears on the bottom.
> How would I make it so that the text automatically wraps in the
> browser without putting a whole bunch of linebreaks in the text file?
> 
>   --Walter Huf--
> hufman at cobalty.com
> 
> 
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> 

If you send plain text, it will be presented exactly how you send it, line 
breaks and all.

If you want it to wrap to the browser window, you have to make it look 
like HTML. The bare minimum you can get away with is <p> tags where you 
want new paragraphs - plus a head and a tail.



-- 
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd, www.riverhall.co.uk


From halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com  Wed Mar 10 01:48:26 2004
From: halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com (leo)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:48:26 +1100
Subject: cmdline args to a piped python prog
Message-ID: <c2mdn3$12df$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi there

a python file can evaluate cmdline arguments like

python myprog.py arg1 arg2 arg3...

when i feed python with my program via terminal input like

cat myprog.py | python

how can i then specifiy the cmdline arguments arg1 arg2 arg3...?

thanks a lot, leo

ps: wondering why i ask? -- emacs calls python code from abuffer always in
the latter way.





From jdtiede at sstar.com  Wed Mar 10 23:19:41 2004
From: jdtiede at sstar.com (John D. Tiedeman)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:19:41 -0600
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
Message-ID: <404FE8DD.5090202@sstar.com>

John wrote:

>> I have tried PostGreSQL, PyGreSQL, pypgsql, psycopg, and PDO and have
>> yet to connect to PostgreSQL 7.4 (.1 in one box, .2 in the other).
>>
>> With PostGreSQL-3.4 and pypgsql-2.4, using setup.py build results in
>> "error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1."
>>
>> I couldn't install psycopg-1.1.11 because it asks for PgSql header
>> files; the only one I can identify is postgres.h.
>  
>
Dave Brueck wrote:
I've been using pyscopg-1.1.11 with PostgreSQL 7.4 and Python 2.3 on Mandrake
9.2 and have found it to work really well for my needs. To get it to build I
had to do

cp -r postgres-7.4/src/include/catalog /usr/local/pgsql/include/

to get the headers in the right place. Also had to install mxDateTime first.

HTH,
-Dave
************************************************************************************
This looked like exactly what I need. But after I copied the header files as you instructed, I still got "configure: error: missing PostgreSQL headers." I tried with and without the trailing /, with and without /catalog, all to no avail. 






From jjl at colt-telecom.nl  Mon Mar 29 12:07:30 2004
From: jjl at colt-telecom.nl (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 18:07:30 +0100
Subject: ANN: Python UK Conference, 16th - 17th April 2004
Message-ID: <mailman.1080653405.19140.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The Python UK conference is taking place on Friday and Saturday 16th
and 17th of April, as part of the ACCU Spring Conference at the
Randolph Hotel in the centre of Oxford.  The impressive list of
speakers includes David Ascher, Alex Martelli, Armin Rigo of Psyco and
PyPy fame, Duncan Booth, Chris Withers, and core CPython and Jython
developers Michael Hudson and Samuele Pedroni.  The Python conference
follows a 2-day Open Source event with well-known open-source leader
and Pythonista Eric Raymond, co-founder of Zope corp Paul Everitt, and
a host of other interesting speakers.

http://www.accu.org/conference/

http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html

http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html


Though all the official speakers are invited, there will be
considerable space during breaks and after hours for Python
mini-talks, Birds of a Feather meetings and sprints (possibly
including a PyPy sprint).

There are also very reasonable sponsorship options (starting from ?200
for a lunchtime stand and talk) for Python companies wishing to
promote themselves; see the 'sponsorship' page of the site for
details.


John



From sangwan at kisti.re.kr  Wed Mar 31 03:30:17 2004
From: sangwan at kisti.re.kr (±è»ó¿Ï)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:30:17 +0900
Subject: [Python/C] Help me.. How to passa dictionary to C function?
Message-ID: <c4duc5$95d$1@news.kreonet.re.kr>

I'm a newbie in Python and Python/C API..

I have a simple question. I want to access python dictionary data type from
C extension module.

---- spam.c ----
#include <Python.h>

PyObject *wrap_clear(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
  int count;
  PyObject *dict;
  PyObject *newdict;

  newdict = PyDict_New(); // newdict is created in C module

  if (!PyArg_Parse(args, "O", &PyDict_Type, &dict)) {
      return NULL;
  }

  if (PyDict_Check(newdict)) {  // newdict is a dictionary
     printf("newdict is ok\n");
  } else {
     printf("newdict is not ok\n");
  }

  if (PyDict_Check(dict)) { // dict is from python
     printf("dict is ok\n");
  } else {
     printf("dict is not ok\n");
  }

  return Py_BuildValue("i", 0);
}


static PyMethodDef spamMethods[] = {
  {"clear", wrap_clear, 1 },
  { NULL, NULL }
};

void initspam() {
  PyObject *m;

  m = Py_InitModule("spam", spamMethods);
}
------------


$
gcc -fpic -c -I/usr/local/python/include/python2.3 -I/usr/local/python/lib/p
ython2.3/config spam.c
$ gcc -shared spam.o -o spam.so
$ python
Python 2.3.3 (#1, Mar 29 2004, 18:57:19)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-113)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import spam
>>> d = {"count":1}
>>> d
{'count': 1}
>>> spam.clear(d)
newdict is ok  -------> newdict is a dictionary
dict is not ok  --------> but dict is not a dictionary
0
>>>

How can i access to the dictionary from C module??

Thanks in advance..





From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Thu Mar  4 00:19:07 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:19:07 +1300
Subject: Fresh Python for Rotting Web Hosts
Message-ID: <4046BC4B.5080504@rebirthing.co.nz>

Hi,

As a drastic solution to the endemic problem of poor python support 
amongst budget (< $10 USD /month) web hosts, I've created a HOWTO 
document called 'Fresh Python For Rotting Web Hosts', which is available at:

http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/fresh-python-for-rotting-web-hosts.html

It walks beginning-intermediate Python web app developers through the 
steps of custom-building a self-contained small-footprint yet 
full-featured latest-version Python environment (around 9-14MB), 
installing this in one's home directory on budget web hosts, and using 
it to drive a website written as python CGI files.

Intended audience is people who can't justify the $25/month+ which it 
often costs to host a site on more python-friendly hosts.

This approach can serve as a stepping stone for sites starting small, 
looking later to migrate to more decent hosts.

Please feel welcome to peer-review the document, and let me know of any 
inaccuracies, omissions or unclear sections.

-- 

Kind regards
David

--

leave this line intact so your email gets through my junk mail filter



From info at ing-monteleone.com  Mon Mar  8 16:21:17 2004
From: info at ing-monteleone.com (Ing Giuseppe Monteleone)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:21:17 GMT
Subject: class problem with Embedded Python
Message-ID: <ht53c.17079$z23.788541@news3.tin.it>

I Have a problem with embedded python: the interpeter work and i can call my
object. In other word the code

import geppo
geppo.boxwrite("test")

where geppo is my own module, work well, but when i try to define a class
like this

import geppo
class pippo:
    pass
geppo.boxwrite("test")

the C function PyRun_SimpleString give me a ret value < 0, an error.
Moreover when I ty to use an arimethic function I get a memory fault

import geppo
v = 3+3
geppo.boxwrite(v)

that code generate a memory fault.

Some one can help me ?

Thanks
In Giuseppe Monteleone






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar  8 15:24:56 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 15:24:56 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
Message-ID: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>

I'm a bit late with this, but better late than never...

PEP: 328
Title: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
Version: $Revision: 1.2 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/01/31 05:19:25 $
Author: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Python-Version: 2.4
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 21-Dec-2003
Post-History: 8-Mar-2004


Abstract
========

The ``import`` statement has two problems:

* Long ``import`` statements can be difficult to write, requiring
  various contortions to fit Pythonic style guidelines.

* Imports can be ambiguous in the face of packages; within a package,
  it's not clear whether ``import foo`` refers to a module within the
  package or some module outside the package.

For the first problem, it is proposed that parentheses be permitted to
enclose multiple names, thus allowing Python's standard mechanisms for
multi-line values to apply.  For the second problem, it is proposed
that all ``import`` statements be absolute by default (more precisely,
relative to ``sys.path``) with special syntax for accessing
package-relative imports.


Rationale for Parentheses
=========================

Currently, if you want to import a lot of names from a module or
package, you have to choose one of several unpalatable options:

* Write a long line with backslash continuations::

      from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text \
          LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END

* Write multiple ``import`` statements::

      from Tkinter import Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
      from Tkinter import LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END

(``import *`` is *not* an option ;-)

Instead, it should be possible to use Python's standard grouping
mechanism (parentheses) to write the ``import`` statement::

    from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
        LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)

This part of the proposal already has BDFL approval.


Rationale for Absolute Imports
==============================

In current Python, if you're reading a module located inside a
package, it is not clear whether ::

    import foo

refers to a top-level module or to another module inside the package.
To resolve the ambiguity, it is proposed that ``foo`` will always be a
module or package reachable from ``sys.path``.

Because this represents a change in semantics, absolute imports will
be optional in Python 2.4 through the use of ::

    from __future__ import absolute_import

This PEP will be updated when it is decided to make absolute imports
the default, probably Python 2.5 or 2.6.

This part of the proposal already has BDFL approval.


Rationale for Relative Imports
==============================

With the shift to absolute imports, the question arose whether
relative imports should be allowed at all.  Several use cases were
presented, the most important of which is being able to rearrange the
structure of large packages without having to edit sub-packages.  In
addition, a module inside a package can't easily import itself without
relative imports.

Guido approved of the idea of relative imports, but there has been a
lot of disagreement on the spelling (syntax).  There does seem to be
agreement that relative imports will require listing specific names to
import (that is, ``import foo`` as a bare term will always be an
absolute import).

Here are the contenders:

* One from Guido::

      from .foo import

  and ::

      from ...foo import

  These two forms have a couple of different suggested semantics.  One
  semantic is to make each dot represent one level.  There have been
  many complaints about the difficulty of counting dots.  Another
  option is to only allow one level of relative import.  That misses a
  lot of functionality, and people still complained about missing the
  dot in the one-dot form.  The final option is to define an algorithm
  for finding relative modules and packages; the objection here is
  "Explicit is better than implicit".  (The algorithm proposed is
  "search up from current package directory until the ultimate package
  parent gets hit".)

* The next set of options is conflated from several posters::

      from __pkg__.__pkg__ import

  and ::

      from .__parent__.__parent__ import

  Many people (Guido included) think these look ugly, but they *are*
  clear and explicit.  Overall, more people prefer ``__pkg__`` as the
  shorter option.

* Finally, some people dislike the way you have to change ``import``
  to ``from ... import`` when you want to dig inside a package.  They
  suggest completely rewriting the ``import`` syntax::

      from MODULE import NAMES as RENAME searching HOW

  or ::

      import NAMES as RENAME from MODULE searching HOW
          [from NAMES] [in WHERE] import ...

  However, this most likely could not be implemented for Python 2.4
  (too big a change), and allowing relative imports is sufficiently
  critical that we need something now (given that the standard
  ``import`` will change to absolute import).  More than that, this
  proposed syntax has several open questions:

  - What is the precise proposed syntax?  (Which clauses are optional
    under which circumstances?)

  - How strongly does the ``searching`` clause bind?  In other words,
    do you write::

        import foo as bar searching XXX, spam as ham searching XXX

    or::

        import foo as bar, spam as ham searching XXX


Open Issues
===========

The BDFL needs to decide which of the various options for relative
imports works best.  Additional proposals are still welcome.  As
usual, Guido prefers reasons to histrionics.


References
==========

For more background, see the following python-dev threads:

- `Re: Christmas Wishlist
  <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/040973.html>`__

- `Re: Python-Dev Digest, Vol 5, Issue 57
  <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/041078.html>`__

- `Relative import
  <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/041065.html>`__

- `Another Strategy for Relative Import
  <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/041418.html>`__


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.


..
   Local Variables:
   mode: indented-text
   indent-tabs-mode: nil
   sentence-end-double-space: t
   fill-column: 70
   End:



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar  9 17:22:08 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:22:08 -0500
Subject: curses bkgd problem
References: <404C9A46.4070206@geochemsource.com>
	<mailman.159.1078819507.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnk7jxtu0dr.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:

> Gandalf wrote:
>
>> stdscr = curses.initscr() # Get standard screen
>> curses.start_color()      # Uses colors
>> stdscr.bkgd(' ',curses.COLOR_BLUE ) # Set background of the main window
>> curses.noecho()           # Do not echo input
>> curses.cbreak()           # CBreak mode: process keys immediately
>> (no ENTER)
>> stdscr.keypad(1)          # keypad mode: parse control sequences
>> stdscr.redrawwin()
>> stdscr.refresh()
>>
>> However, it is displaying $ characters in black instead of
>> displaying a blue background full of spaces.
>> This must be a problem with my bkgd call since this works fine:
>>
>> curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_RED, curses.COLOR_WHITE)
>> stdscr.addstr(0, 0, curses.longname(), curses.color_pair(1) )
>> stdscr.refresh()
>>
> Now I'm doing this:
>
> def clrscr():
>     global stdscr
>     (maxy,maxx) = stdscr.getmaxyx()
>     line = ' ' * (maxx-1)
>     for row in range(maxy):
>         stdscr.addstr(row, 0, line, curses.color_pair(1) )
>
> which works fine except that the right side of the screen is still
> black.

Use a line of maxx blanks:
line = ' ' * maxx

> It is a very clumsy solution. Any ideas?

Nope ... puzzled. Looks like colour in curses is harder than it looks :-)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From droog at orange.gov  Wed Mar 17 22:28:22 2004
From: droog at orange.gov (droog)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:28:22 GMT
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
	<h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa@4ax.com>
	<roy-8084F6.22224117032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <dm5i501ccv5atbe4mc6epn1l406ugufkto@4ax.com>

Thanks Roy!

Could you please show me an alternative and better way of doing it?
tia

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:22:41 -0500, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>In article <h84i501homhvjv6a4ohmf0o4svlakcqtoa at 4ax.com>,
> droog <droog at orange.gov> wrote:
>
>> I was looking for the simpliest way of doing it. This is what I tried
>> to do. 
>> 
>> f = open('C:\Python23\Samples\Bob.txt', 'r')
>> counter = 0
>> while True:
>> 	line = f.readline()
>> 	if len(line) == 0:
>> 		break
>> 	if line.find('customer'):
>> 		counter = counter + 1
>> 		print 'Found it ' + str(counter)
>
>I cut-and-pasted the above onto my machine (just changed the pathname to 
>/usr/share/dict/words).  It finds every line in the file!  The problem 
>appears to be that the find() method returns -1 when there's no match, 
>which tests as True.  Other than that, the code seems pretty reasonable.



From peterstrempel at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 13:56:16 2004
From: peterstrempel at yahoo.com (Peter Strempel)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 18:56:16 GMT
Subject: embed python
References: <c2pi2o$17dm$2@news.riken.go.jp>
Message-ID: <slrnc51dig.f0l.peterstrempel@peter-strempels-computer.local>

In article <c2pi2o$17dm$2 at news.riken.go.jp>, Marc Schellens wrote:
> Can somebody tell me how to handle
> this #include issue when embedding python?

Usually "#include "Python.h" is the right way. Then tell your compiler
to add "python2.3" to the include list. On gcc pass "-I/usr/include/python2.3"
or similar to the compilation step.

> Why NOT (according to  the python doc) ude
> #include <python2.3/Python.h>
> ?

Well, you actually can do that, it will work just as above way. But when
you upgrade your Python to 2.4, you need to change your sourcecode. Otherwise
you only need to change your Makefile.

Maybe there is another, more important reason. I don't know. :)


> And which is the library to link if I want to
> use pyhton from my application?

-lpython2.3 (or -lpython23 on some systems) will find the right library,
which is libpython2.3.so in most cases (or libpython23.so or python23.dll
if you are on Win32).


 Peter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar  1 04:07:53 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 10:07:53 +0100
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
	<tyffzcwbm7x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<95aa1afa.0402272327.29828430@posting.google.com>
	<tyfsmgtbewl.fsf@lxplus030.cern.ch>
	<95aa1afa.0402292302.1283af4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyf65dpaqae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfsmgtbewl.fsf at lxplus030.cern.ch>...
> > I think that you are misleading yourself. You are comparing apples to
> > quinces.
> 
> I thank you for the long post and the time you spent in clarifying the
> issue I had; however, you are speaking to a converted, since I already
> came to the same conclusion on my own (see my reply to Bengt Richter).

Ah, OK, sorry. Didn't see that one at the time I was writing.

> Still, I maintain that the ability to subclass FunctionType would be nice ;)

I agreed with you originally on that, and I still do :-)

Just one thing bothers me about your conclusions in your reply to
Bengt ...

[As my discussion turned out longer than I originally intended, let me
pull the summary up here to the top: 

  In short, the reason Scheme hides the "feature" is that there is no
  iteration in Scheme, only recursion.
]

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> But still it is easy to forget that the helper function is needed
> and that using directly the lambda would not work. It is kind of
> error prone.

Don't think about helper functions, think about the scopes that are
intoduced. It's not the function that matters, it's the scope (the
inner binding), which in Python can only be introduced by nesting a
function, while in Scheme and CL you can use let.

> Scheme is less error prone since it uses local loop variables

The behaviour has nothing to do with globality or locality of the
variable which is used. It depends on whether the same binding is
being updated, or whether a new binding is being created each time
around the loop.

> and automatically generates separate closures:

Python also greates separate closures. Scheme (and Python when you
instruct it to do so) creates separate bindings of the same name so
that the binding found by the free variables in the closure is
different for each closure.

> (define list-of-adders '())
> 
> (let loop ((i 0))
>   (set! list-of-adders (cons (lambda (x) (+ x i)) list-of-adders))
>   (if (= i 1) 'exit (loop (add1 i))))
> 
> (define add1 (first list-of-adders))
> (define add0 (second list-of-adders))

[...]

> You can get Python behavior if you explicitely use a global variable:
> 
> (define list-of-adders '())
> (define i 0)
> 
> (let loop ()
>   (set! list-of-adders (cons (lambda (x) (+ x i)) list-of-adders))
>   (if (= i 1) 'exit (begin (set! i (add1 i)) (loop))))

In the second case you are updating the _single_ (global as it
happens) binding [(set! i (add1 i))]. In the first case you do (loop
(add1 i)) which certainly looks like it's passing the new value to a
function which will create a new binding (though I suspect that
there's some macrology behind the scenes). If, in the first case, you
were to introduce a local variable to the loop and use (set! i (add1
i)) to update it, just like you do to the global, you'd see the
closures sharing the same value again.

As I said before, iteration in Scheme is usually (always?) implemented
via recursion, so it's difficult create a loop with a genuine looping
variable.

If you used recursion to implement iteration in Python, you'd get the
same as in Scheme:

def make_adders(i):
    if i < 0: return []
    return make_adders(i-1)+[lambda x:x+i]

add0, add1 = make_adders(1)

print add0(0) # => 0
print add1(0) # => 1

        

In short, the reason Scheme hides the "feature" is that there is no
iteration in Scheme, only recursion.


Disclaimer: 

  I am no Scheme expert. There may well be Schemes which support real
  iteration, but I believe that the usual and even encouraged means of
  iterating in Scheme is via recursion. (Note, this is _not_ the case
  in Common Lisp.) Please correct me if you know this to be wrong.


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 15:13:17 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:13:17 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<20040330143520.31dccb5e.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>
	<mailman.130.1080667110.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnky8piytya.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 05:35 am, Hugh Macdonald wrote:
>>
>> > > GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
>> >
>> > Is this Linux only ?
>> > (pardon my terrible ignorance...)
>>
>> Yeah - it is... I'n only developing for Linux here...
>
> No!  GTK is most definitely cross platform.  I use it on both Windows
> and Linux with great success.  And it's very consistent in the sense

There's no (working) native port for Mac OS X [1], so I'd call it only mostly
cross-platform. You could use the X version, and run an X server, but
I could argue you could do the same under Windows...

[1] there are some partly-complete ports of GTK 1.2, but nothing for
GTK 2.x

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From User at Invalid.domain  Wed Mar 17 08:30:02 2004
From: User at Invalid.domain (Debian User)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:30:02 +0200
Subject: debian packages
Message-ID: <405852DA.8030808@Invalid.domain>

With redhat deciding go make some real money from the fruits of their 
labour, management decided to try out debian. This leads me to my 
possible future problem: is there a way to create debian (deb) packages 
using distutils (or any other python extensiom) for python scripts?
I used to build RPMS using distutils and custom spec files.



From m.bless at gmx.de  Wed Mar  3 05:32:34 2004
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:32:34 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <4046aa14.9853593@news.t-online.de>

["Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com>]

>but only because 'sys.stdout.write' is too long to type all
>the time, and never with more than one argument.

Yes, I feel it's a pity that the standard write method of file objects
doesn't take multiple arguments. Would take some of the pressure.

One thing I can do since Python-2.2 is to inherit from 'file' and add
for example a 'writem' (write many, write multiple) method. This does
work.

Unfortunately it seems I can't add that 'writem' method to sys.stdout,
as the following shows.

Anybody any ideas?


#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
"""Test file object."""

__author__ = "Martin Bless, 2004-03-03"

if 1 and "this does work":
    class MyFile(file):

        def writem(self,*args):
            "Method to write many arguments."
            for arg in args:
                self.write(str(arg))

    f2name = 'xxxtempfile'
    f2 = MyFile(f2name,'w')
    f2.writem(1,2,3,4)
    f2.close()


if 1 and "this does not work with sys.stdout":
    """
    Attempt to add a method to a class at runtime.
    See Python Cookbook or ASPN,
    Object-Oriented Programming, Brett Cannon.
    """
    import sys
    def writem(self,*args):
        "Function to be turned into a method.."
        for arg in args:
            self.write(str(arg))
    # will not work
    setattr(sys.stdout.__class__,'writem',writem)

    """The above 'setattr' will give this error:
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "test_file_object.py", line 33, in ?
        setattr(sys.stdout.__class__,'writem',writem)
    TypeError: can't set attributes of built-in/extension type 'file'
    """

mb - Martin Bless



From blairsp at dca.net  Sat Mar  6 19:51:12 2004
From: blairsp at dca.net (SPD)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:51:12 -0500
Subject: twisted.protocols.sip
Message-ID: <b2b56$404a7202$cff549e4$2958@dcanet.allthenewsgroups.com>


Hello:

   I'm new to Python and Twisted but not new to
programming. I need to create a test tools to
send and receive Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
messages. I understand twisted.protocols.sip
offers this capability but I cannot get a demo
program to work. Does anyone have a basic
example program they can share?

Thanks,
Steve


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Mon Mar  1 12:33:59 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 12:33:59 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector and threads
In-Reply-To: <c1vqkk$1ui$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <hgJ0c.4318$mx4.105259@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vo8h$n5p$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1EJ0c.4334$mx4.105438@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
	<c1vqkk$1ui$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6uK0c.4347$mx4.106055@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Aahz wrote:
> What's "RAII"?

"Resource Acquisition Is Initialization"
It's a term frequently used in C++ to describe the use of constructor 
and destructor for resource allocation/deallocation.

>>to __del__, whatever it is ref-counting or something else.  Wouldn't a 
>>class like CancellableThread, with a sub-class implemented cancel method 
>>called when the object is not referred in any other thread be useful?
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but threading needs references to created threads in order to
> implement its functionality.  You might try building your own thread
> constructs using ``thread`` directly.

I still don't know how to implement it.  I can do something very simple 
like:

class Canceller:
     def __init__(self, thread):
         self.thread = thread
     def __del__(self):
         self.thread.cancel()
         self.thread.join()

but I can't merge the concept with a Thread class, because the self 
passed to run would be a reference to the object...  I don't know if a 
language extension would be worth the effort or if there's a cool 
solution I'm missing, but what is sure is that I write a lot of code to 
cancel threads in finalizers of parent objects.  I don't want deamon 
threads so that everything is stopped cleanly, but at the same time it 
is error-prone in a GUI application, because I risk to have the process 
still running after a quit.

I just want a way to garantee that all my threads are cancelled when the 
main thread is finished.

Regards,
Nicolas




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar 10 17:19:35 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 09:09:35 +1050
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<104v3lrijtse657@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4v696.lhs.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:58 -0500, John Roth wrote:
> Someday people will get over their attachment with being able to write
> programs with any old text editor that happens to be lying around, and
> being able to print their programs without needing a special
> formatting program, but that day isn't today, and I doubt if it's
> tomorrow.

I doubt it's ever, because such a day would have to be preceded by the
day when programs no longer need to be inspected, maintained or
transferred between systems not specifically set up as developer
workstations.

-- 
 \     "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit |
  `\                                         atrocities."  -- Voltaire |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From freyley at gmx.net  Sat Mar  6 13:41:39 2004
From: freyley at gmx.net (Jeff Schwaber)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:41:39 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1078598499.24853.6.camel@zadie>

On Sat, 2004-03-06 at 10:18, Brett wrote:
> Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
> (untested examples in C++)
> 
> (1) deeply nested loops
> 
> for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
> for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
> for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>     if (/* some test */) goto END;
> 
> END: /* continue */;

try:
   for k in range(10):
      for j in range(10):
         for i in range(10):
            if "some test":  raise Exception("test")
except:
   pass



> and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
> 
> BEGIN:
> for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>     if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;

for n in range(20):
    if "some test": continue

Jeff




From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Sat Mar 20 13:35:15 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:35:15 +0100
Subject: parsing emails
References: <95aa1afa.0403200029.6859e390@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.20.18.35.13.163219@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:29:40 -0800, Michele Simionato wrote:

> I use Mozilla or Netscape, so my emails are stored in the nsmail
> directory
> or the Mozilla's equivalent. What's the simplest way to look at them
> and
> extract the mails with a given subject? In principle I could use a
> regular expression, but I bet there are better solutions already
> available.
> Second question: are Mozilla and Netscape compatible, i.e. are the
> emails stored with the same format and can I use the same extraction
> method on both?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> 
>              Michele Simionato

Ciao Michele,
maybe you could use something like that 

"""code not tested"""
import email
import mailbox

fp=file('fileName','r')
mbox = mailbox.UnixMailbox(fp, email.message_from_file)

msg_list=[]
for msg in mbox.next():
    if msg['Subject']=="the subject you're searching for":
        msg_list.append(msg)
fp.close()

for msg in msg_list:
    print msg

Dunno about Mozilla/Netscape compatibility, but I think they'll use the
same mail format.

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From shane at zope.com  Fri Mar 26 09:38:07 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:38:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
In-Reply-To: <6E57243C-7EF3-11D8-8D1D-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<40634B15.1090006@zope.com>
	<6E57243C-7EF3-11D8-8D1D-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403260929460.6527-100000@shane.zope.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> 
> On 25-mrt-04, at 22:11, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> >
> > I just thought of a better way to write this.
> >
> >     myHandlers = {}
> >     myHandlers["click"] = def(x,y):
> >         print "click at x,y"
> >     myHandlers["enter"] = def():
> >         print "mouse entered"
> >     myHandlers["exit"] = def():
> >         print "mouse exited"
> >
> > I think that's pretty nice.
> 
> And how would you write in-line callbacks for functions that take 
> multiple callbacks (such as an on-success and on-error handler)?

I would write a class.

obj.add_listener(class):
    def on_success(self):
        print 'yay!'
    def on_error(self):
        print 'ohh.'

Shane



From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 12:45:46 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:45:46 +0200
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
In-Reply-To: <494182a9.0403290932.5e09cfc6@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.20.1080516158.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c48153$909$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c48ho9$d69$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<c48nu8$smj$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<494182a9.0403290932.5e09cfc6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406860CA.9040304@stackless.com>

Balaji wrote:

> Thanks for all the initial help....
> 
> Sorry for bugging you again...
> 
> Here is a part of my code..
> 
> Suppose if some body wants to assign an e=E() to an expression class..
> 
> he may define then e=v+v1(where v and v1 both belong to a variable class)
> 
> now again if we define say v2=V() and then try to multiply v2 with e then I want
> to raise an error that it is a nonlinear term..
> 
> So  what I though was if i keep track of all the instances id then I might raise
> an exception...
> 
> But the problem was i couldnt check the right side of an assigment...
> 
> Can the right side of an assignment be checked...

You can intercept the process of assignment.
In older python, this was done overwriting __setattr__,
but today it is much simpler and cleaner to user property
objects. You can just define a setter that does certain checks.

 >>> print property.__doc__
property(fget=None, fset=None, fdel=None, doc=None) -> property attribute

fget is a function to be used for getting an attribute value, and likewise
fset is a function for setting, and fdel a function for del'ing, an
attribute.  Typical use is to define a managed attribute x:
class C(object):
     def getx(self): return self.__x
     def setx(self, value): self.__x = value
     def delx(self): del self.__x
     x = property(getx, setx, delx, "I'm the 'x' property.")
 >>>

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 22 12:03:06 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:03:06 +0800
Subject: Python bytecode compatibility between interpreter versions
In-Reply-To: <8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <c3egpn$25joon$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<0qudndSnJMpWbsfdRVn-uA@powergate.ca>	<c3gqvu$27bujr$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<c3h4lp$ng9$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c3hknq$2864jv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<7okui1-3no.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<c3k9tt$273l0e$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.209.1079881584.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3khpb$290ro2$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cak1j1-vu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c3lguo$271vv8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8ei2j1-69c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c3n5ta$288su1$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roger Binns wrote:

> In the Java world, the JVM is a seperate installable component.
> Some installers like ZeroG will install them for you.  In general
> all Java bytecode is expected (but not required) to share the
> main system JVM.

Afaik, each app will start its own copy of a JVM.

> In Python, if you want to distribute an application, and you
> don't want the user to have to install Python or any extensions,
> you use one of the installer generators out there.  They gather
> up the interpretter, your code and extension libraries and dump
> them all into one directory.  They then include a stub that makes
> them all work together.  It especially has no reliance on any
> pre-installed interpretter.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am aware of 'freezing' but having to bundle
an interpreter with every app is exactly what I would rather avoid...

> If you want to see this in action, try my project at
> http://bitpim.sf.net  The downloads give you a program that runs
> on Windows, Mac and Linux without any prerequisites.  

What would be great is to not have to choose between a Windows,
Mac or Linux or XXX download (like in a proper Java app).

> You are pedantically correct in that they both contain bytecode, but
> the level is different.  *If* the JVM wrote out HotSpot compilations
> and profiling information, the resulting files would be analogous to
> .pyc files.  

But you're not saying that .pyc files contain profiling information,
right?  Because that is what it's sounding like...

 > They would not be *required* for execution, and they
> would be automatically regenerated if necessary (eg if you changed
> source files).  In theory it could then execute from them without
> requiring the original class files, but that would be an implementation
> specific thing.

Yes, this is the main difference between Java and Python.  Python
prefers the source to be present, Java doesn't care.

> With the addition of zip imports in Python 2.3, 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you just said earlier that
zip imports predated Java by several years and now you're saying
they've just been added to Python 2.3?







From max at alcyone.com  Tue Mar 16 19:44:50 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:44:50 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.52.1079472192.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40579F82.6CA29952@alcyone.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Here is my "is" rule:
> 
>     Use "is" to compare two objects only if one is explicitly known to
>     be a
>     singleton defined by the language (None, Ellipsis, True, False).

I'd add "or defined by the programmer within his code."  Although
admittedly I don't use it that way much.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Here day fights with night.
    -- (the last words of Victor Hugo)


From moncho.leon at gmx.net  Mon Mar 15 05:36:51 2004
From: moncho.leon at gmx.net (Ramon Leon Fournier)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:36:51 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c34104$23h3i5$1@ID-114614.news.uni-berlin.de>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> How do I force static typing in Python?

If you want

    def foo(int bar):
        print bar

then you probably want to give Pyrex a try.

Theek hai.

Ram?n


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar  7 09:29:21 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:29:21 -0600
Subject: Need better string methods
In-Reply-To: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16459.12737.511890.925460@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    David> I am convinced that Python can do anything that can be done by
    David> these CPL's, but I know it will be an uphill battle getting
    David> design engineers to learn yet another scripting language....

    David> The resistance will come from people who throw at us little bits
    David> and pieces of code that can be done more easily in their chosen
    David> CPL.

Then throw little bits and pieces of code back at them that can be done more
easily in Python. <0.5 wink>

    David> String processing, for example, is one area where we may face
    David> some difficulty.

    ...

    David> # Ruby:
    David> # clean = line.chomp.strip('.').squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)

    David> This is pretty straight-forward once you know what each of the
    David> methods do.

    David> # Current best Python:
    David> clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

    David> This is too much to expect of a non-programmer, even one who
    David> undestands the methods.

    ...

My arguments from the "Zen of Python" would be:

    Beautiful is better than ugly.
    Simple is better than complex.
    Sparse is better than dense.
    Readability counts.

These aphorisms are especially important for non-programmers.  They simply
aren't going to be able to remember what the above Ruby or Python code does
in six months without at least a little bit of study, especially if it's
buried in other similar code.  That study will distract them, however
momentarily, from the actual task at hand.  That breaks their chain of
concentration on the actual task at hand and lowers their productivity.

To that end, my proposed solution for your string smashing problem would be
something like:

    import csv

    for row in csv.reader(file("gradoo.csv"), delimiter='|'):
        print row
        # elide spaces
        row = [" ".join(s.split()) for s in row]
        print row
        # trim leading ...
        row = [s.lstrip(".") for s in row]
        print row

given that gradoo.csv contains the line from your example.  The advantages
that I see are:

    * it's got some simple comments which identify the work being done

    * it's easier to add new operations if needed in the future

    * avoiding long chains of string methods makes the code easier to read

Skip



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 28 20:26:25 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:26:25 -0600
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <114d01c41448$4433c1e0$0000fea9@dell8200>
	<000d01c4144b$67dbd760$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>
	<16487.23850.656173.195877@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <16487.31553.364009.314912@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Roger> I did, except the base implementation can't be called.  It hs
    Roger> this line of code in it:

    Roger> self.connection.shutdown(1)

    Roger> ie it will close the connection after every response, no matter
    Roger> what.

    Skip> Can you submit a patch to SF which abstracts that into its own
    Skip> method ("end_request" or something similar?) which can be
    Skip> overridden.

Does this (untested) change help?  You should be able to override the
finish() method in a subclass.

Skip

% cvs diff SimpleXMLRPCServer.py 
Index: SimpleXMLRPCServer.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Lib/SimpleXMLRPCServer.py,v
retrieving revision 1.8
diff -c -r1.8 SimpleXMLRPCServer.py
*** SimpleXMLRPCServer.py       2 Nov 2003 09:47:05 -0000       1.8
--- SimpleXMLRPCServer.py       28 Mar 2004 23:56:38 -0000
***************
*** 422,428 ****
  
              # shut down the connection
              self.wfile.flush()
!             self.connection.shutdown(1)
  
      def log_request(self, code='-', size='-'):
          """Selectively log an accepted request."""
--- 422,431 ----
  
              # shut down the connection
              self.wfile.flush()
!             self.finish()
! 
!     def finish(self):
!         self.connection.shutdown(1)
  
      def log_request(self, code='-', size='-'):
          """Selectively log an accepted request."""



From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Thu Mar 25 08:46:21 2004
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:46:21 -0500
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-03-01 through 2004-03-15
Message-ID: <4062E2AD.50200@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2004-03-01 through 2004-03-15
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from 
March 01, 2004 through March 15, 2004.  It is intended to inform the 
wider Python community of on-going developments on the list.  To comment 
on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or email 
python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a 
subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members 
are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't 
hesitate to take a stance on something.  And if all of this really 
interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_!

This is the thirty-seventh summary written by Brett Cannon (waiting for 
PyCon to start).

To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not have 
the time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always catch 
follow-ups posted there.

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which 
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar 
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably 
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, 
although I suggest learning reST; it's simple and is accepted for `PEP 
markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output.  Also, because of the 
wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee you 
will be able to run the text version of this summary through Docutils_ 
as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found 
at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking 
up any documentation on something mentioned here.  PEPs (Python 
Enhancement Proposals) are located at http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To 
view files in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .  Reported bugs 
and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that 
holds the intellectual property for Python.  It also tries to forward 
the development and use of Python.  But the PSF_ cannot do this without 
donations.  You can make a donation at 
http://python.org/psf/donations.html .  Every penny helps so even a 
small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html
.. _PSF:
.. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/

.. contents::

.. _last summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-02-01_2004-02-29.html
.. _original text file: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-03-01_2004-03-15.ht


=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
Still looking for a summer job or internship programming.  If you know 
of one, please let me know.

Ever since I first had to type Martin v. Loewis' name, I have had issues 
with Unicode in the summary.  When I realized there was a problem I 
thought it was Vim changing my Unicode in some way since I would notice 
problems when I reopened the file in TextEdit, OS X's included text 
editor that I have always used for writing the summaries (and no, I am 
not about to use Vim to do this nor Emacs; spoiled by real-time spelling 
and it is just the way I do it).  Well, I was wrong.  Should have known 
Vim was not the issue.

Turned out that TextEdit was opening the text files later assuming the 
wrong character encoding.  When I forced it to open all files as UTF-8 I 
no longer had problems.  This also explains the weird MIME-quoted issues 
I had earlier that Aahz pointed out to me since I was just copying from 
TextEdit into Thunderbird_, my email client, without realizing TextEdit 
was not reading the text properly.  So I thought I finally solved my 
problem.  Ha!  Not quite.

Turned out to be a slight issue on the generation of the email based on 
the tool chain for how we maintain the python.org web site.  This is in 
no way the web team's fault since I have unique requirements for the 
Summaries.  But without having to do some recoding of ht2html_ in order 
to specify the text encoding, I wasn't sure how I should handle this.

I thought I had this solved under reST_, but my solution turned out not 
to work.  So the battle continues.  So, for the moment, Unicode is not 
working for the summaries.

And here is a question of people who read the Summaries on a regular 
basis: would you get any benefit in having new summaries announced in 
the `python.org RSS feed`_?  Since this entails one extra, small step in 
each summary I am asking people to email me to let me know if this would 
in any way make their lives easier.  So please let me know if knowing 
when a new summary is out by way of the RSS feed would be beneficial to 
you or if just finding from `comp.lang.python`_ or 
`comp.lang.python.announce`_ is enough.

I actually wrote this entire summary either in the airport or on the 
flight to DC for PyCon (thank goodness for emergency aisles; my 6'6" 
frame would be in much more pain than it is otherwise) and thus on 
Spring Break!  I am hoping to use this as a turning point in doing the 
Summaries on a semi-monthly basis again.  We will see if Spring quarter 
lets me stick to that (expecting a lighter load with less stress next 
quarter).

.. _Thunderbird: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/thunderbird/
.. _ht2html: http://ht2html.sf.net/
.. _directive: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/spec/rst/directives.html
.. _python.org RSS feed: http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
.. _PyCon: http://www.pycon.org/
.. _comp.lang.python.announce: 
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python.announce&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

=========
Summaries
=========
--------
PEP news
--------
PEP 309 ("Partial Function Application") has been rewritten.

PEP 318 got a ton of discussion, to the point of warranting its own 
summary: `PEP 318 and the discussion that will never end`_.
PE 327, which is the spec for the Decimal module in the CVS sandbox, got 
an update.

Contributing threads:
   - `PEP 309 re-written 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042865.html>`__
   - `Changes to PEP 327: Decimal data type 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043155.html>`__


-----------------------------------------------
Playing willy-nilly with stack frames for speed
-----------------------------------------------
A patch to clean up the allocation and remove the freelist (stack frames 
not in use that could be used for something else) was proposed.  Of 
course it would have been applied immediately if there wasn't a catch: 
recursive functions slowed down by around 20%.

A way to get around this was proposed, but it would clutter up the code 
which was being simplified in the first place.  Guido said he would 
rather have that than have recursive calls take a hit.

Then a flurry of posts came about discussing other ways to try to speed 
up stack allocation.

Contributing threads:
   - `scary frame speed hacks 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042871.html>`__
   - `reusing frames 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042914.html>`__

----------------------------------------------
PEP 318 and the discussion that will never end
----------------------------------------------
Just looking at the number of contributing threads to this summary 
should give you an indication of how talked about this PEP became.  In 
case you don't remember the discussion `last time`_, this PEP covers 
function/method(/class?) decorators: having this::

   def foo() [decorate, me]: pass

be equivalent to::

   def foo(): pass
   foo = me(decorate(foo))

What most of the discussion came down to was syntax and the order of 
application.  As of this moment it has come down to either the syntax 
used above or putting the brackets between the function/method name and 
the parameters.  Guido spoke up and said he liked the latter syntax 
(which is used by Quixote_).  People, though, pointed out that while the 
syntax works for a single argument, adding a long list starts to 
separate the parameter tuple farther and farther from the 
function/method name.  There was at least one other syntax proposal but 
it was shot down quickly.

Order of application seems to have been settled.  Some want the order to 
be like in the example.  Others, though, want the reverse order: 
``decorate(me(foo))``.  In the end, though, the order in the example 
code is what people preferred.

In the end it was agreed the PEP needed to be thoroughly rewritten which 
is currently happening.

.. _last time: 
2004-02-01_2004-02-29.html#function-decoration-and-all-that-jazz
.. _Quixote: http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/

Contributing threads:
   - `Pep 318 - new syntax for wrappers 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042902.html>`__
   - `new syntax (esp for wrappers) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042906.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 - function/method/class decoration 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042917.html>`__
   - `(Specific syntax of) PEP 318 - function/method/class 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042947.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 - generality of list; restrictions on elements 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042951.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 needs a rewrite 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042975.html>`__
   - `Python-Dev Digest, Vol 8, Issue 20 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043033.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 trial balloon (wrappers) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043076.html>`__
   - `funcdef grammar production 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043142.html>`__


----------------------------------------
Compiler optimization flags for the core
----------------------------------------
The topic of compiler flags that are optimal for Python came up when 
Raymond Hettinger announced his new LIST_APPEND opcode (discussed later 
in `Optimizing: Raymond Hettinger's personal crack`_).  This stemmed 
from the fact that the bytecode has not been touched in a while.  This 
generated a short discussion on the magic that is caches and how the 
eval loop always throws a fit when it gets played with.  One suggestion 
was to rework some opcodes to use other opcodes instead in order to 
remove the original opcodes entirely from the eval loop.  But it was 
pointed out it would be better to just factor out the C code to 
functions so that they are just brought into the cache less often 
instead of incurring the overhead of more loops through the eval loop.

This then led to AM Kuchling to state that he was planning in giving a 
lightning talk at PyCon_ about various compiler optimization flags he 
tried out on Python.  Looks like that compiling Python/ceval.c with -Os 
(optimizes for space) w/ everything else using -O3 gave the best results 
using gcc 3.  This sparked the idea of more architecture-dependent 
compiler optimizations which would be set when 'configure' was run and 
detected the hardware of the system.

In the end no code was changed in terms of the compiler optimizations.

Contributing threads:
   - `New opcode to simplifiy/speedup list comprehensions 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042924.html>`__
   - `Who cares about the performance of these opcodes? 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042990.html>`__


------------------------------------------------------
Take using Python as a calculator to a whole new level
------------------------------------------------------
I remember once there was a thread on `comp.lang.python`_ about how to 
tell when you had an addiction to Python.  One of the points was when 
you start to use Python as your calculator (something I admit to openly; 
using the 'sum' built-in is wonderful for quick addition when I would 
have used a Scheme interpreter).  Well, Raymond Hettinger had the idea 
of adding a 'calculator' module that would provide a ""pretty good" 
implementations of things found on low to mid-range calculators like my 
personal favorite, the hp32sII student scientific calculator".  He then 
listed a bunch of functionality the HP calculator has that he would like 
to see as a module.

Beyond sparking some waxing about calculators, and the HP 32sII 
especially (I used a TI-82 back in high school and junior college so I 
won't even both summarizing the nostalgic daydreaming on HP 
calculators), the discussion focused mainly on what functionality to 
provide and the accuracy of the calculations.  The former topic focused 
on what would be reasonable and relatively easy to implement without 
requiring a mathematician to write in order to be correct or fast.

The topic of accuracy, though, was not as clear-cut.  First the issue of 
whether to use the in-development Decimal module would be the smart 
thing to do.  The consensus was to use Decimal since floating-point, 
even with IEEE 754 in place, is not accurate enough for something that 
wants to be as accurate as an actual calculator.  Then discussions on 
the precision of accuracy came up.  It seemed like it would be important 
to have a level of precision kept above the expected output precision to 
make sure any rounding errors and such would be kept to a minimum.

Raymond is going to write a PEP outlining the module.

Contributing threads:
   - `calculator module 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043003.html>`__


------------------------
dateutil module proposed
------------------------
Gustavo Niemeyer offered to integrate his dateutil_ module into the 
stdlib.  Discussion of how it should tie into datetime and whether all 
of it or only some of its functionality should be brought in was 
transpired.  As of right now the discussion is still going on.

.. _dateutil: https://moin.conectiva.com.br/DateUtil

Contributing threads:
   - `dateutil 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043054.html>`__


----------------------------------------------
Optimizing: Raymond Hettinger's personal crack
----------------------------------------------
Raymond Hettinger, the speed nut that he is, added a new opcode to 
Python to speed up list comprehensions by around 35%.  But his addiction 
didn't stop there.

Being the dealer of his own drug of choice, Raymond got his next fix by 
improving on iterations for dictionaries (this is, of course, after all 
of his work on the list internals).  As always, thanks goes to Raymond 
for putting in the work to make sure the CPython interpreter beats the 
Parrot_ interpreter by that much more come `OSCON 2004`_ and the 
Pie-thon contest.

And, at Hye-Shik Chang's request, Raymond listed off his list of things 
to do to feed his addiction so he doesn't go into withdrawls any time in 
the future.  Most of them are nice and involved that would make great 
personal/research projects.

.. _Parrot: http://www.parrotcode.org/
.. _OSCON 2004: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2004/

Contributing threads:
   - `New opcode to simplifiy/speedup list comprehensions 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/042924.html>`__
   - `Joys of Optimization 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043097.html>`__




From paschen at mavd.de  Tue Mar 23 08:11:22 2004
From: paschen at mavd.de (Bjoern Paschen)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:11:22 +0100
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <F5CdnQZREsxTIMLdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<mailman.261.1080004772.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FAA1D.83576D05@alcyone.com>
	<F5CdnQZREsxTIMLdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1080047465.56698@mail.mavd.de>

Brad wrote:
> What a sick fuck.  Now I know why they call people like him trolls.
I am looking forward to it. Its pure entertainment :).




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:00:52 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:00:52 -0800
Subject: Equality and identity
References: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <donn-57CE7B.12005230032004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <3cfvfkmi337.fsf at nelja.ifi.uio.no>,
 Marius Bernklev <mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

> In python, it seems like immutable objects are equal under both
> equality and identity:
> 
> >>> 5 == 5
> True
> >>> 5 is 5
> True
> >>> "hei" == "hei"
> True
> >>> "hei" is "hei"
> True
> 
> But that isn't true for tuples:
> >>> (5,2) == (5,2)
> True
> >>> (5,2) is (5,2)
> False
> 
> Why not?  Are tuples mutable in some way I've missed, or are there
> other reasons for this behaviour?  To me, it seems natural to concider
> (5,2) and (5,2) the same object, just like "5,2" and "5,2".

Note that the Python interpreter is a program, with finite
limits on its implementation.  It is not an algebraic system.
If you find that (5,2) and (5,2) are not the same object,
rather than trying to infer properties of types from this,
first you might ask `what would it take, as implementor of
Python, to always use the same object for these two quantities?'
and, `how important is it to do so?'  This may lead you to
make a few more experiments with strings and find some holes
in your identity proposition there, too.

Don't make the mistake that people seem recently so prone to
make, of an unhealthy preoccupation with "is" and identity.
When you need to test for equality, always use "==".

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From hufman at cobalty.com  Wed Mar 10 16:58:11 2004
From: hufman at cobalty.com (Walter Huf)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 15:58:11 -0600
Subject: Cgi: Print Text files with wordwrap!
Message-ID: <Xns94A8A266DCF19GaylordOfKewaskum@209.25.157.130>

Okay, I'm writing a cgi program, and I can send files and stuff, but how do 
I send text files with word wrap enabled? If a line of text is wider than 
the browser, and unsightly scrollbar appears on the bottom. How would I 
make it so that the text automatically wraps in the browser without putting 
a whole bunch of linebreaks in the text file?

  --Walter Huf--
hufman at cobalty.com


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Mar  3 14:14:59 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:14:59 -0800
Subject: Efficiently test for positive re.match then use the result?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E55@opus.amorhq.net>

elmlish wrote:
> I'm currently befuddled as to how to efficiently test for a 
> positive re.
> match then use the results of that match in a function.
> 
> Mostly what I've seen people do is to first test for the 
> match, and then 
> try matching again to get the results.  This would seem to be pretty 
> inefficient to me.
> >>> alist = ['boo','hoo','choo']
> >>> [re.match('choo',line) for line in calist if 
> re.match('choo',line)]
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x11e218>]

What's wrong with:

alist = ['boo','hoo','choo']
for line in alist:
    m = re.match('choo', line)
    if m:
        doSomethingWith(m.groups(0))


FuManChu



From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Mar 16 21:52:41 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:52:41 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EF6@opus.amorhq.net>

Andrew Koenig wrote:
> "Axel Boldt" <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c at posting.google.com...
> 
> > Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is 
> unspecified
> > and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.
> 
> Hardly.  It has two fundamental properties, which can 
> sometimes be useful:
> 
>     1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" yields True.
> 
>     2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True.  
> Equivalently, if
> "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also yields False.

Assuming nobody has overridden __eq__, of course. ;)


FuManChu



From jdtiede at sstar.com  Tue Mar 16 17:47:26 2004
From: jdtiede at sstar.com (John D. Tiedeman)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:47:26 -0600
Subject: Can't connect Postgres to Python
In-Reply-To: <E1B3LnV-00022r-6g@mail.python.org>
References: <E1B3LnV-00022r-6g@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <405783FE.1050507@sstar.com>

John wrote:

>>At this point, using the command
>>   conn = psycopg.connect("dbname=personal", serialize=0)
>>from psycogq documentation, I get
>>   NameError: name 'psycopg' is not defined
>>
>>What am I missing?
>>    
>>
>
>Hi John. You need to import the module first:
>
>import psycopg
>
>You may have more errors to figure out, but this will at least get you to the
>next step.
>
>-Dave
>  
>
This is the configuration I used:
   ./configure --with-postgres/libraries=/usr/local/pgsql/lib 
--with-postgres-includes=/usr/local/pgsql/include
--with-zope=/usr/lib/Zope-2.6.2-src 
--with-mxdatetime-includes=/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateTime 


When I try to import psycopg, I get "no module named DateTime." I found 
that mxDateTime.so is in 
...Python2.2/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateTime. Could I have the 
wrong version, do I need to put it in the Python2.3 directory, or what?




From mark at prothon.org  Wed Mar 31 19:46:55 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:46:55 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c4aia1$2d44ll$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8y8ac.68250$cx5.51296@fed1read04>
	<c4dkg2$2gsuda$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <FDJac.86316$cx5.65299@fed1read04>

Greg: Just a quick note to let you know that I do intend to reply to this
but haven't had the time.

Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
>>> But presumably he wants the check done only once, when a subclass is
>>> defined, *not* every time said subclass is instantiated.
>>
>> You can have a different __init__ for an object and it's prototpe.So
>> the Prothon equivalent of a subclass can easily have different
>> __init__ behaviour than it's child (what you call instance).
>
> Can you post some code illustrating how you would do this
> in Prothon? I still can't see how, at the point where you
> do
>
>    X = Base()
>
> anything can tell whether you're intending to use X as
> an instance of Base or whether you're going to go on to
> say
>
>    with X:
>      def ...
>
> and use X as a prototype which inherits behaviour from
> Base. In both cases, Base.__init__ is going to get invoked
> before you have a chance to define any other __init__ that
> might override it.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 29 22:43:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:43:35 -0500
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Duncan Lissett wrote:
> Is there a Python implementation of Martin Richards benchmark Bench?
> 
> Be interesting to add it to these
> www.lissett.com/ben/exp/bench1.htm

I doubt one exists yet.  There doesn't even appear to be a 
specification.  It even looks like different implementations of
that benchmark were implemented by random people porting arbitrary
other versions.  For example, the Algol68 one comes from Pascal,
and the Pascal one came from C (?).

Worse than that, I can't find a specification for the benchmark
anywhere.  What's it supposed to do?  Writing this in Python by
reverse engineering a possibly buggy implementation from some other
language would be a wonderful exercise in futility.

There's a hint on http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/Bench.html
(Martin's own page on the subject) which suggests ("designed for the
comparison of System Implementation Languages") that this is not
a suitable benchmark for Python anyway.  Python doesn't normally
get used in that domain, and it might be it can't even do what
is required without resorting to C extensions...

My guess is there are more modern benchmarks that are much more
effective at comparing Python performance in areas where it's really
used, but without even a paper describing this one, who could say?

-Peter


From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sat Mar  6 13:51:54 2004
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:51:54 +0000
Subject: machine control script ( parameterless method? )
In-Reply-To: <20040306123424.20326.00000892@mb-m04.aol.com>
References: <340a6b1b6f65b385490e5d818b2b6c9e@news.scbiz.com>
	<20040306123424.20326.00000892@mb-m04.aol.com>
Message-ID: <404a1dcd$1_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>

Bluexcell wrote:

> Assuming your machine program is not hard wired..then the user is using some
> form of GUI or other interface to alter the parameters for control, why not use
> a Tkinter GUI to create the program I/O interface.. the checks and safeguards
> for  for incorrect entry are hidden and the user is more inclined to enter the
> right data in the right place?

i was thinking of using a text control for the user to edit an action script, 
( thsts why im thinking of python.) v.v.little code, v.flexible ( i don't have 
to worry about malicious user) that's why the question is actually only about 
getting rid of the brackets.


From koen_vossen at pandora.be  Tue Mar 30 17:36:39 2004
From: koen_vossen at pandora.be (Koen Vossen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:36:39 GMT
Subject: Bug in socket module?
Message-ID: <XDmac.55987$4j7.3622983@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Hi, 

I came across some exceptional behaviour (pun intended) when I was
programming a small chat server. I've simplified my original code to the
following minimal version that still exhibits the same problem:

<code>
#!/usr/bin/env python

import socket

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
s.bind(('', 1234))
s.settimeout(10)

try:
    print "The Meaning of Life."
    data, address = s.recvfrom(1024)
except KeyboardInterrupt:
    pass
</code>

When I start this little snippet, it just sits waiting for the socket to
return some data, as expected. However, when I press CTRL-C before the
timeout occurs it crashes on a KeyboardInterrupt exception, despite the
fact that I have set up a handler to catch the latter.

<output>
koen at s031845:~/workdir> ./weird.py
The Meaning of Life.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./weird.py", line 11, in ?
    data, address = s.recvfrom(1024)
KeyboardInterrupt
</output>

When I omit the settimeout method call, or when I replace recvfrom by
raw_input, the program behaves as expected.

I'm using the following version of python:
Python 2.3+ (#1, Jan  7 2004, 09:17:35)
[GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
I've found that on Windows the same behaviour occurs.

Am I onto something here?

Koen Vossen
-- 
Replace the underscore by a dot to obtain my email address.
Public PGP key available @ pgp.mit.edu


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar  2 14:45:40 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 19:45:40 GMT
Subject: Group comment
References: <f046efac.0403010625.19fbbf57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.17.1078153084.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c22o94$i8g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:57:56 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    ketulp> Can I comment a group of statements together i.e
>    ketulp> If I a 4 statements say:
>    ketulp> i=1
>    ketulp> i+=1
>    ketulp> print i
>    ketulp> print i+1
>
>    ketulp> Instead of commenting each satement iindividually by # is there
>    ketulp> something which allws me to comment these 4 statements in one go
>    ketulp> as in C++ using /*...*/
>
>Many people use triple-quoted strings for this:
>
>    """
>    i=1
>    i+=1
>    print i
>    print i+1
>    """

Though there's always the corner case where there's already something triple-quoted in
the segment you want to comment/quote out.

If we had string-delimited quoting a la mime, we could solve that. E.g.,

    q'arbitrary string'<this is '''quoted''' and """triple is ignored""" ...>'arbitrary string'

or
    Q'arbitrary string'
<this is '''quoted''' and """triple is ignored""" ...>
'arbitrary string'

Where the upper case Q signals the syntax that the line tail after the delimiter is ignored.
(thus the second quote above also includes the \n at the end of the quoted < ...> line)


thus

     Q'XXX'
     i=1
     i+=1
     print i
     print i+1
     'XXX'

and then no problem to do:

  Q'YYY'
     Q'XXX'
     i=1
     i+=1
     print i
     print i+1
     'XXX'
  'YYY'

(The single quotes are for readability, not part of the actual quoting delimiters)
You could deal with the final-escape char problem if you had a no-escapes raw string
version of this. Maybe signal that with double quoted delimiter strings, e.g.,

    q"+++"this ends in backslash\"+++"

which would define the same string constant as 'this ends in backslash\\'


>
>It's not a comment, strictly speaking, however it generally achieves the
>desired results.  Even less comment-like is "if False:":
>
>    if False:
>        i=1
>        i+=1
>        print i
>        print i+1
>
>That has the disadvantage that you need to reindent the lines of interest.

The other side of the coin is that it's sometimes useful to write

    if True:
        # .. pasted code that has indentation

"if True" is also handy to defer processing in interactive mode, e.g.,

 >>> print 'hi'
 hi
 >>> print 'ho'
 ho
 >>> if True:
 ...     print 'hi'
 ...     print 'ho'
 ...
 hi
 ho

That's my clpy quota for today ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Sun Mar 28 21:16:30 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 18:16:30 -0800
Subject: asyncore deficiencies
References: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>
	<c46607$cgk$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <99dce321.0403281816.4df96025@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote...

> I agree that there should probably be some sort of asyncore2; I have a 
> handful of boilerplate servers and clients that I use as a base any time 
> I need something.  Optimally, an asyncore2 library would have simple 
> clients and servers ready to be subclassed and customized as needed.

I would expect such things to be provided by modules that are
dependant on asyncore, eg. as asynchat is. It's beyond the scope of
what asyncore tries to do.


> I'm curious as to why you need to use a private map.  Most uses of 
> private maps I've seen haven't added any sort of meaningful 
> functionality that couldn't have been handled by the default map.  Yours 
> could be an exception, but I'm still curious.

I don't need a private map, however given that the other option was a
module variable, I naturally chose to provide my own to increase any
required future flexibility. Indeed there is little, if anything to be
gained from using your own map, but the option was there.


> Again, you need to use asyncore.poll.

The poll function is not documented in the manual, nor do any
docstrings suggest it is a public interface. Internally asyncore
chooses which of poll, poll2, or poll3 to use inside loop, so calling
these directly also bypasses some of asyncore's OS-independance
functionality.


> I've never used asyncore with UDP sockets, but maybe using 
> "handle_connect = handle_read" in your subclass definition could be 
> sufficient.

I see this as a workaround, and as such I think the point still
stands. :)


> That is exactly why polling is optional.  Select is available on every 
> platform, but poll is faster on platforms that support it...

That is not true at all. If you are feeling investigative, quite a
complete starting point would be <http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html>.
There is lots of information there regarding various OS
implementations async IO performance using poll, epoll, select, aio_*,
etc.


> The trick with doing this is that you end up interrupting other 
> potentially ready sockets with handling an exception.  If you are 
> feeling fiesty, I believe you can use the following and get the error 
> propagated back up:

>      def handle_error(self):
>          raise

That's a good point, but I don't have a problem restarting the poll
after handling an exception, a) because it shouldn't happen very
often, b) will probably mean shutting down the service rather than
trying to continue, and c) exceptions are generally expensive special
cases anyway.

If an exception is propogating up from the dispatcher, that means the
dispatcher's method did not handle the exception, which should mean it
gets passed back up the stack as it does with all other code,
eventually ending up with a traceback print if it wasn't handled.

I dislike the handle_error method since it is essentially redundant in
the face of Python's own exception handling mechanism. If a dispatcher
wants it's own function to handle exceptions, it should wrap it's
methods in a try block.

I assume handle_error was provided to allow graceful teardown of a
dispatcher that was erroneous, but it isn't granular enough to be
useful for tearing down complicated objects, given an exception that
could have been generated anywhere in a couple of screenfuls worth of
code, and an object that could be in any state.


> > - Decoupling from socket objects: removal of the __getitem__ magic
> > which causes screenfuls of abuse for a simple typo at the wrong stage
> > in execution.
> 
> Infinite recursion in asyncore?  Yikes, I've not hit that bug before. 
> Care to post some offending code?

It was entirely my fault, but here is the example anyway. :)

    py> from asyncore import *
    py> class D(dispatcher):
    ...     def __init__(self):
    ...             self.foo
    ...             dispatcher.__init__(self)
    ... 
    py> D()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 3, in __init__
      File "/usr/lib/python2.3/asyncore.py", line 365, in __getattr__
        return getattr(self.socket, attr)
      File "/usr/lib/python2.3/asyncore.py", line 365, in __getattr__
        return getattr(self.socket, attr)
      File "/usr/lib/python2.3/asyncore.py", line 365, in __getattr__
        return getattr(self.socket, attr)


> One could even have a framework for registering even handlers...yikes, 
> this is starting to sound like wxPython.  I don't know if that is a good 
> idea or not.

    NAME  asyncore
    Basic infrastructure for asynchronous socket service clients and
servers.

I think that answers the question.


Is anyone else interested in this? I have already made small
modifications to the asyncore module to fix a few things, but nothing
mentioned here. I could put together a proposed asyncore2 module if
there was interest. I may do it, out of need, anyway. :)


David.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Mar  8 12:48:03 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:48:03 -0800
Subject: Initializing Member Variables
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561E90@opus.amorhq.net>

Boy did I mess up. I wrote:
> Your immediate issue is this: putting __dict = {} in the *class*
> declaration does not make a separate attribute for each *instance*; it
> merely makes a single attribute for the class. To create an attribute
> for the class, you must write code which--surprise, surprise--adds
> that attribute to the *instance*.

...when I should have written:

Your immediate issue is this: putting __dict = {} in the *class*
declaration does not make a separate attribute for each *instance*; it
merely makes a single attribute for the class. To create an attribute
for the INSTANCE, you must write code which--surprise, surprise--adds
        ^^^^^^^^
that attribute to the *instance*.


FuManChu



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Mar 10 13:11:25 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:11:25 -0800
Subject: name of this python program
In-Reply-To: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>
References: <m2ptbl54u7.fsf@bella.local>
Message-ID: <404f628d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

leo wrote:

> hi there
> 
> when i start a python script with 
>         python myprog.py 
> how can i find out the name of my script ("myprog.py") inside the script
> itself. looking for something like args[0]...
> 
> cheers, leo
Depending on your python version, you might try for __file__.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From teiffel at attglobal.net  Wed Mar  3 15:05:19 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:05:19 -0500
Subject: function arguments passed by reference
Message-ID: <40463A7F.5090609@attglobal.net>

Hello,

My background is C++

I would like to know for sure if it is possible to pass a value by 
reference to a function AND having it changed by the function itself


def changeValue( text ):
    text = 'c'
    print text
    return

 >>> txt = 'a'
 >>>changeValue( txt )
'c'
 >>>print txt
'a'

Question 1)
I guess that in Python ( differently than in C++)  somehow txt is passed 
by reference even if its value is not changed.
Is this true ?

Question 2)
How can I define a function that changes the value of txt ( without 
having to return the changed value ) ?

Question 3)
Is there some documentation talking extensively about this ?


Thank you,
Marcello





From sdfATexpertuneDOTcom  Thu Mar 18 11:20:53 2004
From: sdfATexpertuneDOTcom (Scott F)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:20:53 -0000
Subject: New to Python.
References: <40593E14.EAF16BD5@alcyone.com>
	<mailman.126.1079617542.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94B0694423F36sdfexpertunecom@216.168.3.44>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in
news:mailman.126.1079617542.742.python-list at python.org: 

>> You really want to use double backslashes (\\) here or use a raw
>> string (r'...').  If not, this will eventually bite you.
> 
> Or forward slashes (/), which avoids the whole problem.
> 

for file() and similar, forward slashes are great, but try to spawn() 
something and a raw string works better.

SDF


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar 23 16:50:07 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:50:07 +1100
Subject: PEP 318
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01535405@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Skip Montanaro
> 
> You'll be free to write your generator functions like so:
> 
>     def generator(f):
>         return f
> 
>     def silly_counter(n) [generator]:
>         for i in range(10):
>             yield n+i

Ooh - I hadn't thought of that one Skip. I like it.

Of course, rather than just passing the function through, I'd probably want to check that it was actually a generator.

    def generator (f):
        assert f.func_code.co_flags & 0x20
        return f

    def silly_counter(n) [generator]:
        for i in range(10):
            yield n+i

Tim Delaney



From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Sat Mar  6 06:36:12 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:36:12 +0100
Subject: CAN You help Re: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <20040306105936.20709.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040306105936.20709.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4049b71a$0$41754$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

First of all, please keep the discussion on comp.lang.python.
Others may benefit from this as well.

dont bother schreef:

>Hey Can you help me with that?
>My Problem is exactly here:
>
>You did not get me:
>heres what I have to ask:
>
>"How to preserve this attribute -- line
>number/position of the word in the dictionary."
>
I still don't understand the actual need for this. If the purpose is to 
provide
a frequency count of words in a message compared with words in a dictionary,
why would you need the actual *position* of the word in the dictionary?
Is it really imprtant if the match was with the 6th or the 27th entry?
And how do you handle addtions to the dictionary?
So my first advice would be for you to make sure that you really *need* the
position.

>For example: If I am comparing words in a message with
>the words in a dictionary, whenever there is a match,
>I want to record the corresponding location of the
>word in the dictionary.
>
I think you want to record the word, not it's position. Positions will 
change
when new words are added to a dictionary, especially if the dictionary is
kept in alphabetical sorted order.

>heres the code I am using for matching the words in
>the dictionary with the words in the message:
>
>for i in msg:
>     if i in dct:
>         try:
>             vector[i] += 1
>
>         except:
>             vector[i] = 1
>
>
I assume that this is preceded by something like:
vector = {}

Here you are filling the vector map with words as keys
(not their positions), and their frequency counts as values.

Aside: using a bare except is frowned upon: it will catch
*every* error. What you probably want is something like:

try:
    vector[i] += 1
except KeyError:
    vector[i] = 1

>
>How to I store the corresponding location of the word
>in the dictionary which is matching
>
Again, why would you need this?

>
>and then I will use this location as the key of the
>vector and the value is being computed by vector[i]
>
And here is where the misunderstanding is. vector is keyed by the word
itself, not by its position in the dictionary.

><I NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING HERE>
>
>for v,i in enumerate(vector):
>
Confusing naming. enumerate(iterable) gives a list of
(index, value) tuples.
When you enumerate a map, the index values are of course sequential
integers, starting with 0, but the values are essentially
arbitrary keys from the mapping.
So, here you have:
v == irrelevant integer index value,
and i == arbitrary key (=word) from vector

>    vector[i] /= a
>
I assume a is an integer, otherwise this would fail.
You divide the count for the word i by a (total number
of words in msg?).

>    #print v,i, vector[i] ; if u want to see the word
>too that was commmon
>
This would print
<irrelevant index number>, <word>, <wordcount divided by a>

>    print v,":",vector[i]
>
This would print
<irrelevant index number>: <wordcount divided by a>

That still leaves the question: why would you want to
relate the words in the message to their *position* in
a dictionary?
I still have not seen anything where you would need that.

Regards,

Ruud.



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Mar 30 23:55:42 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:55:42 GMT
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<0omac.74900$cx5.32735@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94BD467AF47A5JanC@213.119.4.35>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> schreef:

> I really really try to remember to quote from below. If you go through my
> posts you will see that I remember most of the time. The last few days I
> have been reponding to four or five mailing lists after months of only
> coding and my fingers are worn out.

Try OE-QuoteFix, it can help you, and it's free:
<http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/>

Also, I think OE allows you to select the text-to-quote _before_ replying.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sun Mar 28 18:18:25 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:18:25 +0200
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Mark,

I see most discussion about Prothon is concerning prototypes.

Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate 
prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?

I never had a problem to "add an attribute" to an existing object; I really 
can't see why it should be more than some small hacks to allow "adding a 
function to an existing object". 


Harald


From shifflett at nps.navy.mil  Thu Mar 11 17:44:26 2004
From: shifflett at nps.navy.mil (D. Shifflett)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 14:44:26 -0800
Subject: Select on Win XP
Message-ID: <da4423a8.0403111444.5d96247f@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I am trying to run a Python program
on my Win XP box, that I brought over from a Linux box.
Of course, on Linux it works fine, but not so on Win XP.

The program has a button to cause a packet to be sent to a server,
the program also has a thread to read packets from the server.
I send a packet, I get one back, pretty simple.

I am using select() to wait for packets
and it isn't functioning as expected.

select() doesn't return until I have sent a packet
even though I am using a short timeout (1 second)

So whats happening is I send a packet,
select() returns but I have no input yet,
then I have to send the packet again
then select returns and I can read the 
response to the first packet.

Hoepfully I am doing something wrong on the Win system.
Any help would be appreciated.

Here's a snippet of the code

from sys import argv
from gtk import *
import socket
import time
import threading
import select
...
my_sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
my_sock.bind(('', MY_PORT))

class readerthread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        self._stopevent = threading.Event()
        print "thread init"
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, name="readerthread")

    def run(self):
        ilist = []
        ilist.append(my_sock)
        print "readerthread - my_sock %d" % my_sock.fileno()
        while not self._stopevent.isSet():

            print "about to select"
            il,ol,el = select(ilist,[],[],1)

            # read from the socket, etc
            if il != []:
                data, addr = my_sock.recvfrom(1024)
                print "recv() Data length %d" %len(data)
                print "recv() Data %s" % data
            else:
                print "No input from select"

    def join(self,timeout=None):
        """
        Stop the thread
        """
        self._stopevent.set()
        threading.Thread.join(self, timeout)
...
def button_cb(button):
    my_sock.sendto(data, (SERVERADDR, SERVERPORT))
...


From http  Fri Mar 19 05:01:54 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 02:01:54 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> I offer this as an alternative:
> 
> from random import Random
> from struct import unpack
> import md5

Why md5 instead of sha?

> class MD5Random(Random):
>     def newrandom(self,    tofloat = 1.0 / 2 ** 53):
>         plaintxt = str(Random.random(self))

What's Random.random(self) supposed to do?

>         ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()

I think you mean update.

>         randint = unpack('<Q', ciphertxt[:8])[0] >> 11  # grab 53 bits
>         return randint * tofloat
> 
> Advantages over the original:
> 
> * Much faster

Yes, other version wasn't optimized.  Both call the hash function
approx once per output though.

> * Much shorter code

But doesn't support all the operations specified in the Random API.
What's up with that?

> * More readable code

Perhaps so.  It took me a little while to figure out in the previous
version that the security came from revealing only part of the output
of each hash (107 secret bits for SHA).  In the md5 version there's
only 75 secret bits, which is cutting things a little close.  It may
be harder to do a concrete security proof for this construction too
(I'm not sure, I've never done one).

> * Threadsafe

Always a plus.

> * Takes advantage of MT's proven equidistribution, of its passing
> known tests for randomness, and of its known period (in contrast,
> SHA-1 was designed as a digest that makes it computationally
> intractable to find a different message giving the same signature --
> that does *not* imply the non-existence of short cycles for some
> keys).

I'm missing something here--if you're just trying to avoid possible
cycles, why do you want to use MT instead of a sequential counter?
The counter is guaranteed to never cycle (unless you overflow the 512
bit compression function input, which won't happen in the life of the
universe).

Note that while there's probably some short cycles in the double-SHA
construction, the chance of finding one is infinitesimally small (it
means finding a 320 bit birthday collision).  Hitting one by accident
is comparable to guessing an AES key by accident.  Finding one by
brute force or by cryptanalysis is again comparable to breaking AES.

> * It uses both MD5 and the Mersenne Twister as they were designed (in
> contrast, my google searches show *no* research on using SHA-1 in OFB
> and reapplying SHA-1 again to conceal the output).

Applying a collision resistant hash function to itself is a standard
construction for making a PRF and is the basis of HMAC.  I believe
the relevant paper is

    Bellare, M., Canetti, R., and Krawczyk, H., "Pseudorandom Functions
    Revisited: The Cascade Construction". Proc. of the 37th IEEE Symp. on
    Foundation of Computer Science, 1996, webbed (PostScript) at:

     http://www.research.ibm.com/security/bck1.ps

but I haven't slogged all the way through it yet.  It has a concrete
security proof and I've always found those things incredibly fussy and
pedantic compared to normal math papers.  I haven't yet figured out
the reason why they're like that, or if they're really need to be.
I'd like to attempt to do one for this generator though, once we
settle on an algorithm.

See also the other references to RFC 2104, notably Krawczyk et al's
original HMAC paper from Crypto 96.

My guess is the reason you haven't found any publications specific to
SHA1 with this construction is that nobody has found any results
against SHA1.  As far as anyone can tell, the output is
undistinguishable from random.


From ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar 24 01:10:42 2004
From: ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:10:42 +1200
Subject: PEP 318
In-Reply-To: <hb6dnazJyf6ZQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<4qet50hla2dna5g8gqcbbfj2tsmu3smkp7@4ax.com>
	<hb6dnazJyf6ZQMPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c3r8p5$2b95ta$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> If it's a list, then just as surely a tuple should be allowed in its 
> place, as in every (?) other such case in Python that I can think of.
> Would that be part of the proposal?

No, in the current version of the PEP, it's not. The square
brackets don't denote construction of a list. No sequence
object of any kind is constructed -- the expressions are
simply evaluated and applied one at a time.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From moranar at daleclick.com  Sun Mar 14 16:11:07 2004
From: moranar at daleclick.com (Adriano Varoli Piazza)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:11:07 -0300
Subject: Extracting info from OS/hardware
In-Reply-To: <1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<1059hm7s63ebh4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200403141811.40195.moranar@daleclick.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

El Dom 14 Mar 2004 17:55, Cameron Laird escribi?:
> In article <nOq3c.9451$_c4.119500 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
>
> Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
> >I need a piece of code to extract as much info about OS, current status
> > and hardware from a machine as possible ( at least, all available
> > partitions and free space on these, CPU-speed, free/total memory and
> > stuff like that ) at one given moment on Linux and Windows.
> >
> >Any hints? Can I call something in win32all on Windows or read some file
> > on linux? I'm not sure where to begin.
>
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I was hoping someone else would answer this.
>
> My impression is that there are dozens of answers to this.
> I know I've seen quite a few such utilities advertised in
> places like Freshmeat.  I haven't kept track of them at
> all.
>
> "... as much info ... as possible ...":  whoooo!  Usually
> when a manager says that to me, I ask for how much he's
> willing to pay.  As it turns out, notions like "free
> space", "CPU speed", and so on are surprisingly poorly
> standardized.  It's far from clear what they mean for any
> particular platform.
>
> Sooooooo, what I usually do is define my requirements
> carefully, and write up my own tool.
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net

In Linux, you can get a lot of information on hardware and status by examining 
files in the /proc directory. For example, from doing cat /proc/cpuinfo on my 
system:
[adriano at localhost adriano]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo 
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : AuthenticAMD
cpu family      : 6
model           : 8
model name      : AMD Athlon(TM) XP 1700+
stepping        : 1
cpu MHz         : 1833.218
cache size      : 256 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 1
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca 
cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips        : 3629.05

For disk space and free space, you check /proc/diskstats, etc.
No idea about how to do it on Windows, but programs like "Treesize" tell me it 
mustn't be that hard.
Ciao.
- -- 
Adriano Varoli Piazza
http://moranar.com.ar
ICQ: 4410132
MSN: adrianomd at hotmail.com
Claves gpg / pgp en hkp://subkeys.pgp.net
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAVMqLkDP9anP2KHwRApTsAKChjLmg0AlCaQeRCzPhXBpZ3sq/twCg2kWq
XyZNT8JkZeDn+hcmchUDP+8=
=ioqx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From my.name at my.org.fr  Mon Mar 22 12:35:11 2004
From: my.name at my.org.fr (Nicolas Decoster)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:35:11 +0100
Subject: PyBuffer. Question on memory shared by C app and python.
Message-ID: <405F23CF.1050808@my.org.fr>

Hi.

I have an app that allocates memory. I have created a python buffer that 
shares this memory. Example:

data = (double*) malloc(size*sizeof(double));
buffer = PyBuffer_FromReadWriteMemory(data, size*sizeof(double));

The app and python interpreter does lots of things they find usefull.

And one day, the app decides to free the memory:

free(data);

How can the app tell python not to try to access memory no more?

Am I sure at this point that the app is the only one that has a ref on 
my Object?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Nicolas.

--
Noveltis



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar 25 17:27:32 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:27:32 -0800
Subject: Semantics of ==
References: <40200384.0403161538.7407d9e2@posting.google.com>
	<4057A2A0.CC63C070@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403170657.5c81a456@posting.google.com>
	<4058E18D.15C51614@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403180544.337681f1@posting.google.com>
	<405A2FD4.E8713170@alcyone.com>
	<40200384.0403250532.3c8b6e6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40635CD4.C518231C@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> Like I said, it would clarify the semantics of == for lists. Another
> use would be to hash on values of lists.

What part of the semantics are you unclear about?  Two sequences are
equal if they are element-wise equal.  That is the definition that
people rely on, that's the definition that the interpreter uses, and
that definition is even consistent with the behavior you saw with the
self-referencing lists which for some reason surprised you.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Whoever named it necking was a poor judge of anatomy.
    -- Groucho Marx


From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Mar 25 21:41:24 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 02:41:24 GMT
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
In-Reply-To: <t1F8c.14448$Xo6.9389@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <t1F8c.14448$Xo6.9389@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <oLM8c.42840$3_1.17165@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

> 
> bottom-line: i suspect that i'll much more quickly get a good gui 
> working with Delphi than with wxPython, and for little money to boot. 
> Might be a throwaway in the long-term but no problem if it is cheap and 
> easy.  My customer doesn't care either way.
> 
> any thoughts on this?
> 
> 

i continue to research and i see a couple pythonic-ish approaches.

PythonCard which is quick with good doc and samples. It is right on top 
of wxPython so it could serve as gentle intro to wxPython and has 
somewhere to go (wxDesigner, inexpensive) if I start to hit the limits 
of PythonCard.

In the commercial area, QTDesigner with pyQT and possibly BlackAdder. 
Alarm bells go off when BlackAdder is mentioned because it arrived 
extremely late with an entire feature set (ruby support) removed. 
Python support is said to be complete, though.  QT is a thoroughly 
mature, professional tool.  Possibly a major learning curve if 
BlackAdder is a no-show.

I think that pythonic gui design tools appear viable.  I'm still trying 
to figure out if they are the best choice, for me, from a practical 
perspective (tradeoffs of learning curve and power v. non-pythonic 
commercial alternatives.)  Expense is not really a major factor.




From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Mar 10 10:58:30 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:58:30 +0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-1558EF.16050609032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7id67l8dro.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.221.1078923961.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ismggofrt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:

    Jeff> Are you certain that calling a function allocates a dictionary?  A
    Jeff> function's locals are stored as indices in a C array unless a
    Jeff> function uses bare exec.  I'm not sure what a dictionary is needed
    Jeff> for.

You mean a function which calls the locals() function is byte-compiled
differently from a function that won't call locals()?

Regards,
Isaac.


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 20 05:04:19 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:04:19 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3h10s$fbu$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
	<c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<c3g5nr$mcp$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c3h10s$fbu$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <c3h54q$o2h$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Well, I wrote one (it's generated names, that's why it happenned) ;)

That doesn't make it a good idea.  If it wasn't clear, I meant that of 
the thousands of Python source files I've seen, I've never seen any 
named with a dot.  Probably because they don't work correctly, as you 
have found.

You didn't answer my question as to whether module_5.py is reasonable 
replacement for the module.5.py naming scheme you are currently using.


>> Considering that you have shown that it does not work, and that there 
>> is documentation stating that it is not /meant/ to work
> 
> The doc is not so explicit. It says that hierarchical modules are not 
> handled by load_module(), fine, i dont want to handle hierarchicals one, 
> just a simple one that has a don in its name.

The documentation is specific, you quoted it yourself:
"This function does not handle hierarchical module names (names 
containing dots)."

Any file name with a dot that is not the extension of the file, is 
considered hierarchical, and is "not handled".


>> then the error is in the way /you/ name /your/ modules, not the way 
>> Python handles /incorrectly/ named modules.
> 
> That's exactly what I said, and I tend to believe it.

Then you agree that your naming scheme is flawed.  Stop doing it.

  - Josiah


From calvin at ironfroggy.com  Sun Mar 14 12:01:57 2004
From: calvin at ironfroggy.com (Calvin Spealman)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:01:57 -0500
Subject: A Byte of Python - Python Book / Tutorial
References: <5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f@posting.google.com>
	<c31ttr$ahj$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c323be$stt$1@sea.gmane.org>

> Iregards<5168381b.0403051311.5f1c843f at posting.google.com>,sentenceop C H
<python at g2swaroop.net> wrote:
>>
>>I have a written a book on Python which serves as a tutorial or
>>guide for anyone who wants to learn Python. It specifically targets
>>beginners but experienced programmers can benefit a lot with the
>>special notes for them.

In regards to the Unicode string section, you end it to the sentence, "If
you use plain English, don't be worried about this.", which is a bad thing
to tell newbies and one of the largest, if not _the_ largest, reasons
internationalization is so hard to achieve. It is just so easy to ignore
good practices, like using Unicode strings even before you "have" to. By
this same logic, you could say that a Japanese coder should just use some
native character set that only has Japanese characters, because he/she
doesnt speak English. This is crap.

What am I complaining for? I'm just saying, if anything, we should say that
all strings should be unicode strings, and should do so in our own code as
well.




From eltronic at juno.com  Wed Mar 31 22:09:57 2004
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:09:57 -0500
Subject: rlght click menu missing in most Tk apps
Message-ID: <20040331.220959.-154733.0.eltronic@juno.com>

here is some code to add right click context menus.
in the few apps I've edited sofar, it just works, once
you run rCbinder with the root of the gui or bind B3
all present and future widgets will have right click.

there will be a line something like
root=Tk.mainloop() #or Tkinter.mainloop()

in epydoc it was necessary to look into the gui class
and find one of the attributes has the root.
add this before the root= line at the same indentation.
    rCbinder(gui._rootframe) #or root or whatever
    gui.mainloop()               #or root. or= or whatever .|=

hopefully authors  or dedicated users of Tk apps will see how simple
it is to add this basic service and will add the code themselves.
in Qt you get rightclick menu's for free with all entry widgets.
for gtk and wx, I don't know, probably is similar to one or the other.

in pydoc it was necessary to add a search button also
bind like the <return> in the Entry widget
so pydoc could be entirely mouse driven.
            self.search_btn = Tkinter.Button(self.search_frm,
                text='search', pady=0, command=self.search)
...
                self.search_btn.pack(side='right')
...
            self.search_ent.bind('<Button-3>',rClicker, add='')
            self.result_lst.bind('<Button-3>',rClicker, add='')
in pydoc there are only 2 entry widgets so it
was simpler to just bind them to rClicker directly
rClicker takes an event as a parameter as default.
if I ever get a sourceforge id I will post a patch.

I found some of the original clues in Idle, which
for unknown reasons doesn't provide rightclick copy & paste.
 I wouldn't take the lack of outcry as confirmation that
noone is missing this basic expected convenience.
you should assume some people think your app is broken 
and possibly have quit using and recommending it.
certainly they rclick numerous times and are annoyed when
nothing familiar happens.
 You can get fancy and disable or remove choices like don't
display cut or delete where they don't make sense.
you can add application specific shortcuts too, per widget,
by checking the event._name attribute or type, 
you do name your widgets don't you?
adding cascading menus is just like for pulldown menus.
I've left all that out to simplify and shorten this posting.

here are the 2 functions to add-------------
def rClicker(e):
    ''' right click context menu for all Tk Entry and Text widgets
    '''
    import Tkinter
    try:    
        def rClick_Copy(e, apnd=0):
            e.widget.event_generate('<Control-c>')

        def rClick_Cut(e):
            e.widget.event_generate('<Control-x>')

        def rClick_Paste(e): 
            e.widget.event_generate('<Control-v>')

        e.widget.focus()

        nclst=[
            ('      ',None),   #
            (' Cut', lambda e=e: rClick_Cut(e)),  
            (' Copy', lambda e=e: rClick_Copy(e)),
            (' Paste', lambda e=e: rClick_Paste(e)),
            ]
        
        rmenu = Tkinter.Menu(None, tearoff=0, takefocus=0)
    
        for (txt, cmd) in nclst:
            if txt == ' ------ ':
                rmenu.add_separator()
            else:
                rmenu.add_command(label=txt, command=cmd)

        rmenu.entryconfigure(0, state = 'disabled')
    
        rmenu.tk_popup(e.x_root-3, e.y_root+3,entry="0")
    
    except Tkinter.TclError:
        print ' - rClick menu, something wrong'
        pass

    return "break"

def rClickbinder(r):
    import Tkinter
    try:
        for b in [ 'Text', 'Entry', 'Listbox', 'Label']:  # 
            r.bind_class(b, sequence='<Button-3>',
                              func=rClicker, add='')
    except Tkinter.TclError:
        print ' - rClickbinder, something wrong' 
        pass

#I don't know this is the best way to go. but,
#don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough


#e


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From stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org  Sun Mar  7 13:50:16 2004
From: stewartNO at SPAMmidtoad.homelinux.org (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:50:16 GMT
Subject: Socket Receive Buffer
In-Reply-To: <f8a2c52d.0403070941.2fd4c7c7@posting.google.com>
References: <f8a2c52d.0403070941.2fd4c7c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <I9K2c.708645$JQ1.135250@pd7tw1no>

christofer wrote:
> I am writing a small IRC type server. I also have a small test client
> for obvious reasons. My problem is that when receiving input from the
> server, my client sometimes ends up with two messages in the same
> input buffer, which obviously causes problems. Anybody know why it is
> doing this?

Are you delimiting each message sent from the server with a '\n' ?


From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Mar  9 13:53:50 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:53:50 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<roy-F325DF.12255009032004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4s322.l2c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <roy-F325DF.12255009032004 at reader2.panix.com>, Roy Smith wrote:
> OK, I'll bite.  What's wrong with exceptions for breaking out of deeply 
> nested loops?

Philosophically, the termination condition of a loop isn't an
exceptional circumstance.

Practically, exceptions are overkill.  Using named break (or faking it
with goto) is "static multi-level exit", while an exception is dynamic.
It takes more overhead at runtime, and if you don't catch it right it
can escape up the call stack. 

Obviously the static vs. dynamic argument doesn't apply to Python, but
I was replying to a massively dogmatic statement about all languages,
not just Python.

A more pragmatic argument is that, for C++,

  while (condition)
  {
    ...
    goto ENDLOOP;
    ...
  }

  ENDLOOP:
    ...

Is just easier to read, and takes less typing, than

  // declare an EndLoopException class, which I forget how to do because
  // I haven't used C++ exceptions in ages
  
  try
  {
    while (condition)
    {
      ...
      throw EndLoopException;
      ...
    }
  }
  catch (EndLoopException e)
  {
    // this space intentionally left blank
  }

The former is a well-understood idiom, and a not too inelegant
workaround for the lack of named break.  The latter is a horribly clumsy
looking workaround for the same lack.

Joe


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 10 05:43:22 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 05:43:22 -0500
Subject: "print" as function not statement
References: <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2mrga$t7g$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.107.1078707454.19534.python-list at python.org>,
Paul Prescod  <paul at prescod.net> wrote:
>
>This is just a trial balloon. It isn't even in proper PEP format yet. 
>Don't take it too personally!

Your arguments are persuasive, but I disagree with your conclusions.
Given that almost every programming language has something like "print"
built into it, we can't afford to drop that name.  I think you need to
find a path that permits mutation from a reserved word.

The other issue is that you're wrong to make print() a function.
Instead, it should be a callable object.  That way, the default print
object has state:

    print(a, b, c)
    print.set_output(my_file)
    print(a, b, c)
    print(x, y, z)
    print.set_separator(None)
    print("The value is: ", 3)

>	Debug-useful return value
>
>		As a convenience, if the show function is passed a
>		single object to show, it returns that object. If
>		it is passed more then one, it returns them as a
>		tuple. This can be very convenient in debugging
>		contexts. 

I'm in agreement with the person who said that this would be too
confusing in interactive mode.  Then again, if print is an object, it'd
be easy to set this behavior, too.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping over."
--Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 23:00:08 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:00:08 -0800
Subject: generating points on a grid - efficiently
In-Reply-To: <gaas40hva747l148fmnd0prnfq2rdpm5he@4ax.com>
References: <pan.2004.03.06.17.47.06.56512@presidency.com>
	<c2jfsb$68n$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<gaas40hva747l148fmnd0prnfq2rdpm5he@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2m41m$e5q$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> It is exponential in the number of dimensions, making various
> assumptions (mainly that all ordinalities are roughly equal). It is
> polynomial in the ordinality of dimensions, again with assumptions
> (constant number of dimensions, all ordinalities roughly equal). It is
> linear in the number of grid points. It is constant time, for a
> specific set of inputs.
> 
> When you write O(n), formally you have to define what n means. But I
> don't think Rajarshi needed to be so formal. His intention should have
> been clear, though - he didn't intend O(n^k), but rather O(k^n) where
> n is the number of dimensions - making performance exponential.
> 
> The real problem is that the number of output grid points is obviously
> exponential in the number of dimensions (or polynomial in the
> ordinalities, etc) so it's impossible to improve on this performance
> characteristic while still generating all the grid points - only the
> constant scalings can be improved.

You do make a good point, and additionally proper algorithm analysis 
takes into account the data representation size of the input and output.

If my input is a list of j sublists, certainly my input size is the sum 
of the length of each sublist (times the size of each element, which I 
will assume constant), which I will call m.  However, my output, no 
matter how many lists there are, is of size o(j * m^j) (yes, that was 
little o).  Now, looking at the actual problem, we have output of size 
exactly: j*len(sublist1)*len(sublist2)*len(sublist3)...

In the extreme conditions:
m*1^m <= size(output) <= (m/3)*3^(m/3)
m     <= size(output) <= m*3*(m/3 -1)

Indeed, the output size (and time) /is/ worst-case exponential in the 
size of the input.  We get that '3' either through numerical testing, or 
through calculus, which would give us 'e' as producing the largest size 
output.  Testing both 2 and 3 show us that 3 is larger.

I should have done the math in the initial post, thank you for pointing 
out my initial mistake, and allowing me to prove it mathematically.

  - Josiah


From jdrugo at gmx.at  Sun Mar  7 17:29:07 2004
From: jdrugo at gmx.at (Jan Drugowitsch)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:29:07 +0000
Subject: ImportError when trying to import own C++ module
In-Reply-To: <200403072156.25664.jdrugo@gmx.at>
References: <200403072156.25664.jdrugo@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <200403072229.16237.jdrugo@gmx.at>

On Sunday 07 March 2004 21:56, Jan Drugowitsch wrote:
> I am trying to access a C++ class which is wrapped in a Python object from
> another C++ class which is also wrapped in a Python object. I have used the
> following file structure:
>
> AClass.h:
> Declaration of AClass
> typedef of PyObject containing AClass
>
> AClass.cpp:
> Including AClass.h
> Implementation of AClass
>
> PyAClass.cpp:
> Including AClass.h
> Python interface to access AClass
>
> BClass.cpp:
> Including AClass.h
> Declaration of BClass
> Implementation of BClass
> Python interface to access BClass
>
> AClass has the methods
> unsigned int value() const;  // reading private value
> void setValue(const unsiged int);  // setting private value
>
> BClass has the method
> unsigned int value(const AClass* aclass) const; // returning
> aclass->value()
>
> (remember: just a proof-of-concept)
>
> I'm using DistUtils to compile the libraries. AClass.so links AClass.cpp
> and PyAClass.cpp, BClass.so links BClass.cpp and AClass.cpp.
> Using AClass in Python works without problems, importing BClass, however,
>
> gives the following error:
> >>> import BClass
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: ./BClass.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK6AClass5valueEv
>
> BClass.so, however, seems to contain that symbol:
>
> % nm BClass.so | grep _ZNK6AClass5valueEv
>          U _ZNK6AClass5valueEv

Oops, I must have missed the 'U' there. Nevermind, 
after adding library_dirs=["."] and libraries=["AClass"] to the BClass 
Extention, everything works.

Cheers,
Jan
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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 15:51:33 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:51:33 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <106eeoho1cgqc6b@news.supernews.com>


"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276 at fed1read04...
> Mutability is an interesting area.  I just added an unmutable bit in the
> Prothon internal object which makes the read_lock call a no-op and causes
a
> write_lock call to throw an exception.  This makes the object
> write-protected and makes the lock code run much faster.
>
> I did this for internal performance reasons, but after doing it I realize
> that extending it to the Ruby freeze() level would be really good.  Tying
> the freezing in somehow to the bang! methods is also in interesting area
of
> research.
> Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

I think that's a very rational way to go about it. I don't think that
lexical
labeling will work, though. It makes initialization too difficult.

John Roth

> P.S. If this belongs in the Prothon list instead of Python, let us know.
>
>
> "David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
> news:bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa at 4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:15:34 -0500, "John Roth"
> > <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
> > >news:mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list at python.org...
> > >> John Roth wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
> > >> > exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
> > >> > not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it
does
> > >> > open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.
> > >>
> > >> Ummm. This is also true for Python. Python classes exist at runtime.
> > >>
> > >> foo = 5
> > >>
> > >> class foo: # oops. I've overwritten foo
> > >> def bar(self):
> > >> pass
> > >>
> > >> print foo
> > >> print dir(foo)
> > >> print type(foo)
> > >>
> > >>   Paul Prescod
> > >
> > >Sure. But misusing classes as instances is quite rare in
> > >practice, and plugging members into instances is also
> > >quite rare in practice. Python's highly dynamic nature
> > >opens it up to a lot of difficulty in principle, but most
> > >deveopers seem to be quite disciplined in their use of
> > >dynamism.
> > >
> > >The difficulty here is simply that there is no way of
> > >isolating a base object that is supposed to be the platform
> > >for other objects from objects that are supposed to be
> > >updatable with new behavior.
> > >
> > >The higher a tower you want to build, the firmer the
> > >foundation. Conventions help, but if the conventions
> > >are helped along by the language, that's even better.
> >
> > In Ruby you can freeze() any object.  But it seems like in this case,
> > just giving your base object a distinct name, like PrototypePolygon
> > will remind you not to change its definition later as you create
> > triangles, rectangles, etc.
> >
> > I also would have no objection to some syntactic lock, like any object
> > name ending in an underscore is an immutable object.  We could also do
> > this the other way around.  Objects, by default are immutable.  That
> > would take care of most uses.  If you want a mutable object, give it a
> > name ending in ! (bang).
> >
> > -- Dave
> >
>
>




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar  2 13:33:56 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:33:56 +0100
Subject: Computing test methods in unittest.TestCase
References: <4044BE1E.7000408@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <c22k2l$v91$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> I'm working on a unit test for a finite state machine (FSM).  The FSM
> behavior is specified in a dictionary called transitionTable. It has a
> key per state with a tuple of possible transitions as the corresponding
> value.  A transition is defined as a number of input values, a next
> state, and a documentation string.
> 
> I want to test each possible transition in a separate test method. For

[...]

> As the number of transitions can be large, I want to
> "compute" the test methods, based on the transitionTable info.

[...]

> Anyone with better ideas?
 
Use a test suite instead and turn each FSMTest.testXXX() method into a
TestCase instance:

class TransitionTest(unittest.TestCase):
    def __init__(self, state, transition):
        unittest.TestCase.__init__(self)
        self.state = state
        self.transition = transition

    def bench(self, state, transition):
        pass

    def runTest(self):
        Simulation(self.bench(self.state, self.transition)).run()

    def __str__(self):
        return "Check state %s - %s" % (self.state, getDoc(self.transition))

def makeSuite():
    suite = unittest.TestSuite()
    for st, trs in transitionTable.iteritems():
        for tr in trs:
            suite.addTest(TransitionTest(st, tr))
    return suite

if __name__ == "__main__":
    unittest.main(defaultTest="makeSuite")

Peter



From kbass at midsouth.rr.com  Thu Mar 11 20:49:46 2004
From: kbass at midsouth.rr.com (kbass)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:49:46 GMT
Subject: Newby Question: Python and A Nested Dictionary
Message-ID: <_G84c.1393$P45.950@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

I am new to Python and I am attempting to retrieve data from a database and
I would like to place this data into a nested dictionary. After placing the
data into a dictionary, I would like to loop through the data using for
loops. How would I do this? The format that I am attempting is:

Select data ...
Get data ...
Place data into a nested dictionary
     Rev[A] [B] = [500, 700, ...]
for value1 in a:
   for value2 in Rev[A]
      for value3 in Rev[A][B]
         print something

kbass




From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Mar 10 01:25:13 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:25:13 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Unicode and rdf
In-Reply-To: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
References: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403100822090.20781@sampo.csc.fi>

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Richard West wrote:

> I'm trying to parse the rdf dumps from dmoz.org (Open Directory
> Project) and am having great difficulty just getting Python to read
> the files.

Have you tried rdflib by Daniel Krech?

http://rdflib.net/

Regards,

Mickel Gr?nroos
--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Mar 31 12:41:08 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:41:08 -0300
Subject: PEP 327: Decimal data type
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338381B@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People:

This PEP is ready for your review.

As always, any feedback is very welcomed.

Thank you!

.	Facundo



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 26 18:07:51 2004
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:07:51 +0000
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <NPlSEJAHfLZAFwiN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <1068up4kn49778 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes
.....
>Yes, especially since they didn't learn their lessons about
>tab as an indentation character. That means that I can't send
>a Prothon program (or snippet from one) using Outlook
>Express, which automaticlly strips tabs from the front of
>lines, thus destroying the indentation.
>
>An interesting language that has just dropped off of
>my radar screen as being unusable in my environment.
>
luckily I learned the opposite and outlook has been off my radar since
its inception. I prefer tabs, but it seems hard to convince many
programs that they have meaning so probably the prothoneers have it
wrong.
>John Roth
>
>

-- 
Robin Becker


From bogus at bogus.net  Fri Mar 12 01:17:54 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:17:54 GMT
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
References: <mailman.296.1079066607.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mCc4c.6752$u_5.1624@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Simon Wittber" <drconrad at metaplay.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.296.1079066607.19534.python-list at python.org...
> Are you ranting or attempting to be humourarse?
>
> S.
>
I believe this was a "modest proposal."

-- Paul




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Mar 15 12:09:57 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:09:57 +0100
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.23.1079367714.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c34o0m$kqe$01$1@news.t-online.com>

myang wrote:
> 
> How can I covert these codes into human-readable string? I am sure the
> filecontains only some float numbers and some characters.


If you know s/t about the data you expect, you can use the module struct to
convert the raw data. 
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From eric at zomething.com  Wed Mar 17 10:02:12 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:02:12 -0800
Subject: heapq iteration?
Message-ID: <20040317070212.2058820938.eric@zomething.com>

I'm missing something critical about how heapq works.  I assumed I could iterate through the heap, but I get partial iteration:

>>> listB
[56, 208, 89, 413, 273, 199, 73, 21, 89, 13, 27, 199, 273, 413, 11, 22, 56, 2, 208]
>>> heapify(listB)
>>> for h in listB:
	m=heappop(listB)
	print m, '\t',listB

	
2 	[11, 13, 73, 21, 27, 199, 89, 22, 89, 273, 56, 199, 273, 413, 208, 208, 56, 413]
11 	[13, 21, 73, 22, 27, 199, 89, 56, 89, 273, 56, 199, 273, 413, 208, 208, 413]
13 	[21, 22, 73, 56, 27, 199, 89, 208, 89, 273, 56, 199, 273, 413, 208, 413]
21 	[22, 27, 73, 56, 56, 199, 89, 208, 89, 273, 413, 199, 273, 413, 208]
22 	[27, 56, 73, 56, 208, 199, 89, 208, 89, 273, 413, 199, 273, 413]
27 	[56, 56, 73, 89, 208, 199, 89, 208, 413, 273, 413, 199, 273]
56 	[56, 89, 73, 208, 208, 199, 89, 273, 413, 273, 413, 199]
56 	[73, 89, 89, 208, 208, 199, 199, 273, 413, 273, 413]
73 	[89, 89, 199, 208, 208, 199, 413, 273, 413, 273]
89 	[89, 208, 199, 208, 273, 199, 413, 273, 413]
>>> 


TIA,

Eric



From rmanx at gmx.de  Thu Mar 25 12:01:05 2004
From: rmanx at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:01:05 +0100
Subject: threading crashes application
References: <c3uo59$ddr$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <c3v38o$mfa$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hi

the problem is not solved but I have found a workaround.
 I have found out that "self.result.addTO(self.line)" is causing problems.
No idea why it crashed sometimes, but not it is stable.

Robert




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Mar  6 05:47:42 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:47:42 +0100
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <80a8af7d.0403051630.2b278bf0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.28.1078507301.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<80a8af7d.0403051630.2b278bf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4049ac4d$0$564$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Klaus Momberger wrote:
> you might try to define classpath as a system environment variable and
> increase the environment buffer size using the /E:nnnnn option of
> command.com.

command.com is not used on windows NT/2000/XP

> It can be set from CONFIG.SYS with an entry like: 
> 
> SHELL=C:/WINNT/SYTEM32/command.com C:\ /P /E:4096 

Config.sys ditto.

This won't work because he uses a windows 2000 system.

--Irmen


From ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk  Wed Mar 24 13:02:25 2004
From: ray_molachaNOSPAM at gmx.co.uk (Ray Molacha)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:02:25 GMT
Subject: Simple raster graphics ? How do I ...
Message-ID: <MPG.1acbebbe56e964e0989684@news.teleline.es>

Hi Everybody.

I'm learning Python on a Windows computer, using PythonWin.

I'd like to be able to do some simple raster graphics, like 
clearing the screen and plotting a point of some color. I want to 
plot some fractals and math functions just for fun. I understand 
the math ok -- I don't know how to do simple raster graphics. 

I've looked through the documentation, but nothing obvious jumped 
out at me. I saw the turtle module, but it seemed like overkill 
-- and maybe not exactly suited to my purpose -- given what I 
remember of Logo. (What I want to do would have been really easy 
in QBasic a few years back.)

I also did a Google search on <Python Windows "Raster Graphics">, 
which turned up enough hits, but I had trouble telling what would 
be appropriate. The obvious solutions seemed to use packages and 
modules that were only (as far as I could tell) available on 
Linux.

I'd be grateful if someone would point me in the right direction. 
Or have computer graphics gotten so complicated that it's hard to 
do simple things nowadays?

TIA

Ray



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar  8 21:20:03 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:20:03 -0500
Subject: Recursive function always returns None
References: <pan.2004.03.09.01.16.40.825600@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <c2j9ki$tnh$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Patrick LeGresley" <plegresl at stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.03.09.01.16.40.825600 at stanford.edu...
> Hi,
>
> I have a sample piece of code for which I can't understand why it
> returns the output it does.  I am running Python 2.3.2 on Redhat
> Linux 8.0 (x86 hardware).  Here is the code and output:
>
> granada 6% cat tmp.py
> def test(astring):
>
>         if (len(astring) >= 30):
>                 print 'astring =',astring
>                 return astring
>         else:
>                 astring = astring + astring
>                 test(astring)

None is the default return when you do not specify one, as you did not for
the second branch ;-).  Add 'return' before 'test' on final line.

Don't feel too stupid -- I am sure most of us have forgotten a 'return' or
'yield' at least once.  However, testing with test(50*'a') would have given
different behavior that might have given you a clue.  Also think about (or
try) test('').*

Terry J. Reedy

* hint: 0+0=0






From dave at nullcube.com  Sat Mar 13 19:21:47 2004
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:21:47 +1100
Subject: DCOracle2 and header files ??
Message-ID: <20040314002147.GA24122@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

Hi All,

Im trying to use the DCOracle2 library but I've never worked with Oracle
before, yet have to investigate the effort involved in porting a
database we have to it.

When I try running a `make` in the DCOracle2 dir having set the env
variables correctly I get the following error :

make || ./builderrors)
make[1]: Entering directory `/root/DCOracle2/src'
gcc -fPIC -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC -I/usr/include/python2.2 -I/usr/include/python2.2 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -I/u01/app/oracle/or_home/rdbms/demo -I/u01/app/oracle/or_home/network/public -I/u01/app/oracle/or_home/plsql/public -I/u01/app/oracle/or_home/rdbms/public -DORACLE9i -DUSEOWNXID -c ././dco2.c -o ./dco2.o
dco2.c: In function `Cursor_bind':
dco2.c:3275: error: `dword' undeclared (first use in this function)
dco2.c:3275: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
dco2.c:3275: error: for each function it appears in.)
dco2.c:3275: error: syntax error before ')' token
dco2.c:3277: error: syntax error before ')' token
dco2.c:3294: error: syntax error before ')' token
make[1]: *** [dco2.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/DCOracle2/src'

Ive looked in the /u01/app/oracle/or_home/rdbms/demo dir to check for
the header files that should be there, but they arent.  Does anyone know
how I am supposed to install the header files ?? or if this is a problem
that has another solution ??

Im no longer subscribed to the python-list mailling list, so if you
could reply directly I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance
Dave

-- 
Dave Harrison
Nullcube
dave at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 26 11:37:05 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 26 Mar 2004 08:37:05 -0800
Subject: Python for large projects
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>	<tyfbrmn635i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<wzk71ba8ug.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>	<mailman.288.1080056671.742.python-list@python.org>	<1060p59d9rg9819@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade@posting.google.com>

> On Tue, 2004-03-23 at 17:24, Cameron Laird wrote:
>  
> > they're at a particular DISadvantage there.  If you have a
> > big job, you *particularly* need to look at Python (or Erlang,
> > or Eiffel, or ...)
--------------------------------------------
gabor <gabor at z10n.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.300.1080071082.742.python-list at python.org>...
> ...
> i wanted to use python for a project in our company... we wanted to
> build a fairly big system/program.
> 
> but when i recommended python, i got a question like:
> (previously all the programs were written in java)
> "if one of our programmers changes a method in a class/interface, we
> immediately will know about it, because the next program-rebuild will
> simply fail. but if we would use python, we wouldn't find it out".
--------------------------------------------

I use C++ and Python everyday. Let us be fair and point out some good
things about each of them.

(a) In compiled language like C++, changing function prototypes and
variable names is comfortable, because the compiler will find all
those spots that you need to change. In Python, you do not have the
same level of comfort. Sure, there are other techniques, but it's
different than clicking a button.

(b) Cameron said something very true in my opinion: for large
projects, you want Python. But he said so without giving more details.
So let me add some comments.

In my opinion, the essence of software development is code/task
factorization. It seems such a trivial concept, but if you really
really think about it, goto statements, loops, functions, classes,
arrays, pointers, OOP, macros/templates, metaprogramming, AOP,
databases, etc, just about every single technique in programming has
its base in the concept of code/task factorization. Take for instance
classes and inheritance, basically, you factor out the common parts of
two classes and push it up into a common parent class. To go one level
deeper, my belief is that at the bottom, all human intellectual
activities are based on factorization: no more, no less.

In large projects, you'll find that you need to factor out even more.
Let us take an example. Suppose you write an application, and later on
you realize that you need to make it transactional: that is, if some
exceptions happen, you want to roll back the changes. Now, this kind
of major after-thought is terrible for languages without
metaprogramming capabilities. To add a new feature, you will have to
make modifications in hundreds or thousands of spots. Another example,
suppose your software is versioned, more over, you have different
versions for the application and for the data file format, and your
application needs to work with legacy file formats. Again, without
metaprogramming capabilities, your code will have many redundant lines
of code, or be cluttered with tons of if-statements or
switch-statements. Another similar problem: you have several different
clients that buy your application, and they want some different extra
features. Again, without metaprogramming, your code will be either
hard to code (using virtual functions, function pointers, and/or
templates in C++), or will be cluttered with if-else- and switch-
statements (a terrible practice that will make your code
unmaintainable.)

As your project grows more and more complex (become threaded, many new
clients requirements, support for legacy versions, using distributed
computing in a cluster, etc.) you will realize more and more that you
need to factorize efficiently, otherwise your pain will be unbearable.

When you have reached that point, you'll come to appreciate simplicity
and purity in a language. Frankly, Python is good but still not good
enough.

For large projects, if you use a rigid language, then your best bet is
to use tons of programmers coding trivial interfaces and APIs to make
up for the shortcomings of the language. In flexible languages like
Python, you often can use metaprogramming features to factor out the
common areas. At that point, I think that issues like automatically
finding name changes as I mentioned in point (a) become small issues,
because you will have bigger concerns. The fact that you may miss a
name change or function header change is not the thing that will kill
you. The fact that your entire system is unmaintainable is the thing
that will kill you. Don't look at individual bugs when you are talking
about large projects, because your worry should not be there: your
worry should be focused on how to make your system maintainable. Bugs
can and will be fixed. But if your language does not allow you to
factorize efficiently, at the end of the day, that's what's going to
kill you.

regards,

Hung Jung


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Mar  1 01:48:07 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 01:48:07 -0500
Subject: Licensing of wrappers around C/C++ code under more restrictive
 licensing.
In-Reply-To: <Lmx0c.58917$aH3.1816559@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <7ed8f64d.0402280218.5ff447cf@posting.google.com>	<du7ishrmqsv.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi><dc6f5c99.0402281637.71f8a571@posting.google.com>	<mailman.1.1078031359.21439.python-list@python.org>
	<Lmx0c.58917$aH3.1816559@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <4042DCA7.2040302@rogers.com>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1.1078031359.21439.python-list at python.org...
>
>  
>
>>The FSF peoples seem to have a different interpretation, as, last I
>>heard, they suggest that software that links to any GPL software, even
>>at run-time constitutes an infringement (regardless of your not having
>>distributed the GPL code yourself, and the end-user having a perfectly
>>valid license to link the two for personal use).
>>    
>>
>
>Can you provide evidence to support this claim?
>  
>
Mmm, evidence, always fun to research...

A quick search didn't turn up any statements which are black and white 
on the particular issue of a "scripting language" API.  As noted in the 
paragraph above, I was going by other people's statements.  Closest 
thing I could find were these:


            What is the difference between "mere aggregation" and
            "combining two modules into one program"?
            <http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCMereAggregation>

    Mere aggregation of two programs means putting them side by side on
    the same CD-ROM or hard disk. We use this term in the case where
    they are separate programs, not parts of a single program. In this
    case, if one of the programs is covered by the GPL, it has no effect
    on the other program.

    Combining two modules means connecting them together so that they
    form a single larger program. If either part is covered by the GPL,
    the whole combination must also be released under the GPL--if you
    can't, or won't, do that, you may not combine them.

    What constitutes combining two parts into one program? This is a
    legal question, which ultimately judges will decide. We believe that
    a proper criterion depends both on the mechanism of communication
    (exec, pipes, rpc, function calls within a shared address space,
    etc.) and the semantics of the communication (what kinds of
    information are interchanged).

    If the modules are included in the same executable file, they are
    definitely combined in one program. If modules are designed to run
    linked together in a shared address space, that almost surely means
    combining them into one program.

    By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are
    communication mechanisms normally used between two separate
    programs. So when they are used for communication, the modules
    normally are separate programs. But if the semantics of the
    communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data
    structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as
    combined into a larger program.

Also:

    However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
    alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make
    sure that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length,
    that they are not combined in a way that would make them effectively
    a single program.

    The difference between this and "incorporating" the GPL-covered
    software is partly a matter of substance and partly form. The
    substantive part is this: if the two programs are combined so that
    they become effectively two parts of one program, then you can't
    treat them as two separate programs. So the GPL has to cover the
    whole thing.

And:

    If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function
    calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form
    a single program, so plug-ins must be treated as extensions to the
    main program. This means that linking the GPL-covered plug-in with
    the main program would violate the GPL. However, you can resolve
    that legal problem by adding an exception to your program's license
    which gives permission to link it with the non-free main program.

Which is from the GNU.org FAQ. here:

    http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

Now, the first two quotes don't explicitly state that, in the event that 
you let *someone else* distribute the GPL software, you are okay with 
using direct and intimate communication (which the Python module being 
discussed would, I think, qualify as). However, that is the image that 
arises.  That is, if you are not distributing the GPL software you might 
be okay, if not for that third paragraph.

The first two quotes suggest that, if your software links "intimately" 
with the GPL software and you distribute both pieces of software (even 
though only "alongside" one another, (such as two download links from a 
web-site?)), though, then your package is a derivative work and thus 
GPL-requiring. 

The third quote, however, goes much farther.  A plug-in, presumably 
downloaded entirely separately from an application (hence plug-in) is 
somehow able to violate the license of the plug-in merely by being 
loaded by the proprietary application, effectively by being "linked in" 
by the user.  In the situation we are describing, a GPL library with an 
arguably more intimate linking (the Pythonic interface) is being loaded 
into a proprietary application, we would seem to have met all of the 
conditions outlined in that third paragraph (and more). 

To make that work, the using application somehow has to be a derivative 
work of the plug-in, which, particularly in the case of a plug-in API, 
makes no sense, after all, the plug-in API is from the application and 
almost certainly has no code specific to the GPL-licensed plug-in.  What 
would stop a user from using the plug-in with the application?

How this works, (other than wishful thinking) I don't know, as it had 
been my impression that the unmodified use of GPL software on your own 
computer wasn't affected by the GPL. The strange thing about the third 
quote is that, from the GPL section 0 (the FAQ has no legal weight AFAIK):

    Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not
    covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of
    running the Program is not restricted, and the output from the
    Program is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on
    the Program (independent of having been made by running the
    Program). Whether that is true depends on what the Program does.

which seems to allow the *end user* to combine proprietary code with 
unmodified GPL-licensed software for their own use.

As mentioned in the earlier message, I don't think there's been too much 
case law saying that you can claim copyright on something which doesn't 
include any of your code, the LGPL even explicitly states (section 5), 
if there's no LGPL code in the given element, then it is not a 
derivative work.  Still, there must be some logic which makes the 
application above somehow a derivative of its plug-in.  Though again, I 
was under the impression that, for personal use, you could create 
derivatives which linked against proprietary code (even intimately)...

Anywho, hope that's sufficient, must be off to write now.
Mike

(In case anyone is silly enough to think I were... "I am not a lawyer")

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From jaustin at post.harvard.edu  Mon Mar 22 19:15:43 2004
From: jaustin at post.harvard.edu (Jess Austin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 16:15:43 -0800
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <e4e0340c.0403221615.356e8794@posting.google.com>

I'll preface by saying that I haven't fully grokked all the possible
uses of decorators.  Also, I can sympathize with the complaints about
seeing a function definition and then seeing a classmethod call on
that function 50 lines later (actually that seems like a case for
refactoring but never mind).  b-)

The brackets and the 'as' both seem awkward to me.  Also, introducing
a requirement that definition and decoration take place on the same
line seems to limit the the possibilities of decoration.  Perhaps my
class wants to offer several faces of the same method:

class foo(object):
    def __foo_method(...)
        ....
    bar = decorator1(__foo_method)
    baz = decorator2(__foo_method, arg1, arg2)

I can't imagine the exact use for this, but I can imagine that there
could be a use.  If the syntax remains as it is, that is.  This PEP
seems to shoot itself in the foot in this respect.

later,
Jess


From ville at spammers.com  Sun Mar 28 04:34:01 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 12:34:01 +0300
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b7k2s8af5c3c@corp.supernews.com>
	<kJCdnZOwIr75JfjdRVn-gQ@adelphia.com>
	<106be9aroogdq77@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <du73c7ts4c6.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Cameron" == Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> writes:

    >> Since you happily use Perl, Python or Tcl, I have a
    >> question. How do you decided which one to use?  :-)
    >> 
    >> Robert

    Cameron> Most often, whatever is already at hand.  It'll be
    Cameron> interesting some day to come across an organization that
    Cameron> doesn't already have a standard in place.

Many organizations don't, esp. if the actual product they produce is
not written in either of the languages. Some code may exist, but there
is no "official" standard. And if there is, there is a good
possibility of changing it if you are able to demonstrate clear
technical superiority in skunkworks projects. And w/ Python, you
are. Been there, done that :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Mar 25 21:46:47 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 02:46:47 GMT
Subject: win gui thoughts? perhaps a non-Pythonic approach?
In-Reply-To: <7652139e.0403251807.619375da@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.419.1080242529.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7652139e.0403251807.619375da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rQM8c.42842$B%1.19244@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Chris Reay wrote:

> 1. Delphi is good if the project is very simple and mostly GUI & data,
> without much business logic.

> 2. Python is better if there's much data and logic, and (little or) no
> GUI.

> 4. My latest MS Win project requires all: GUI, data, C/S, logic. I'm
> using Visual C#.net and so far I believe it's a good choice.
> 
thankx for the feedback.

sounds like you're supporting the idea that python is a better 
_language_ than pascal (delphi), but that delphi has a more effective 
toolset/framework for gui work.

is .net the better framework for gui work also, or is that choice 
imposed on you by customer requirements?



From python at rcn.com  Fri Mar 19 04:22:30 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 01:22:30 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0403190122.60c311c@posting.google.com>

Correction to the last posting.
The method name should have been random() instead of newrandom().


Raymond


From gandreas at no.reply  Thu Mar 25 12:19:39 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:19:39 -0600
Subject: Make 'def' and 'class' usable within expressions
References: <mailman.373.1080165504.742.python-list@python.org>
	<1065uf99la6if29@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gandreas-9B7D48.11193925032004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <mailman.407.1080229887.742.python-list at python.org>,
 Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> wrote:

> John Roth wrote:
> > If you can make a contribution to a good syntax for
> > a code block, I for one would welcome it.
> > 
> > Just to give you a start: Ruby puts a single code block
> > at the end of the parameter list where it's quite obvious
> > what it is and where it does not interrupt the flow of reading
> > the method call. In python, I'd like to be able to put code
> > blocks wherever I can currently put a function / method
> > object.
> > 
> > For example:
> > 
> > result = map(lambda: ..., list1, list2, list3)
> > 
> > is readable - barely.
> > 
> > result = map(def (x, y, z):
> >                       something
> >                       something else
> >                       return
> >                   list1, list2, list3)
> > 
> > becomes much less readable. This is the problem that
> > needs to be solved to make code blocks fly.
> 
> That's one of the things I'm trying to achieve, too.  Using this syntax, 
> I would write it this way:
> 
> result = map(def(x, y, z), list1, list2, list3):
>      something
>      something else
>      return x
> 
> Shane
> 

What do you do if the expression is in an "if" statement?


if map(def(x,y,z),list1,list2,list3):
   # what goes here?  The body of the function
   # or the body of the if?  And how does the rest of it
   # look?



Also, limiting to "one per expression" prevents you from doing something 
like:

   myHandlers = {
      "click" : def(x,y):
                     print "click at x,y"
      "enter" : def():
                     print "mouse entered"
      "exit"  : def():
                     print "mouse exited"
   }

(since you'd have to write:

   myHandlers = {
      "click" : def(x,y),
      "enter" : somePreviousFunctionForEnter,
      "exit" : somePreviousFunctionForExit
   } :
        print "click at x,y"

which, due to the large distance between the "def" and the body is 
terribly hard to figure out)


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 17 17:28:26 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:28:26 -0500
Subject: Newbie Python (Game) Programming Question
References: <VAJ5c.24601$%06.18480@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<QX36c.26341$%06.21748@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <105hkcg5796il98@news.supernews.com>


"Tina" <bad_addy at no_domain.com> wrote in message
news:QX36c.26341$%06.21748 at newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Thanks to both of you. I'm very much a Python newbie and the ability to
make
> things callable wasn't addressed too well/at all in either of the Python
> books I'm learning from.
>
> Are there any good pages for RPG related items in Python? Everything I've
> seen so far has been first-person shooter type stuff. And coming from a
> BASIC background, I'm falling back on some of that coding style when I
know
> there's a better way.

For general interactive fiction, see the rec.arts.int-fiction newsgroup
and check out the periodic FAQ posting. There are two Python
interactive fiction systems: PAWS (Python Adventure Writing System)
and PUB (Python Universe Builder). Neither one is very popular, but they
may give you some ideas.

John Roth
>
>




From csgcsg39 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 05:41:58 2004
From: csgcsg39 at hotmail.com (C GIllespie)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:41:58 -0000
Subject: Calling C programs
Message-ID: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I have a simple C program which outputs a string. I want to be able to call
this progam from python and assign the output to a variable. What's the best
way to do this?

I've tried

os.system('/tmp/hello')
and
os.execv('/tmp/hello',[' '])

but I can't seem to store the return value.

Many thanks

Colin




From hove at bccs.no  Tue Mar 30 06:08:22 2004
From: hove at bccs.no (Joakim Hove)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:08:22 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.77.1080592548.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4yekrazj6h.fsf@skjellgran.ii.uib.no>



> I would appreciate any comments, criticism, suggestions, alternative
> options, etc. 

Here are some random comments; needless to say they represent my
subjective view. Others mitht disagree heartily!


> FORTUNES_FILE = ".fortune"
>
> # What file should we use?
> if len(sys.argv) > 1:
>     fortunes_file = sys.argv[1]
> else:
>     fortunes_file = FORTUNES_FILE

Using the same variable name with only difference in capitalization I
consider very bad taste. I would suggest using for instance the
variable name 'default_fortunes_file' instead of FORTUNES_FILE.


> fp_entry = [0]

You probably want to start with an *empty* list, not a list with '0'
as the first element, i.e.

fp_entry = []



> fortune = ''
> line = fi.readline()
> while line != '':
>     if re.match(r'^%$', line):
>         break
>     fortune += line
>     line = fi.readline()
> print fortune

Wouldn't it be more natural to look for '%' instead of blank lines:

<Untested>
fortune = ''
line = fi.readline()
while line:
    if re.match(r'^%$',line):
        break
    fortune += line
    line = fi.readline()
</Untested>

> # Return fp to beginning of file, close the file, and exit program
> fi.seek(0,0)
> fi.close()
> sys.exit()

I like to close the files explicitly, like you do. However it is not
really necessary, they are closed automatically (by the garbage
collector I guess).

Repositioning the 




-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------\
 / Joakim Hove  / hove at bccs.no  /  (55 5) 84076       |                 \
 | Unifob AS, Avdeling for Beregningsvitenskap (BCCS) | Stabburveien 18 |
 | CMU                                                | 5231 Paradis    |
 \ Thorm?hlensgt.55, 5020 Bergen.                     | 55 91 28 18     /
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------/


From fletcher at worldnet.att.net  Fri Mar 12 22:00:40 2004
From: fletcher at worldnet.att.net (elizabeth fletcher)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:00:40 GMT
Subject: drowning newbie
Message-ID: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Want to use Sam Rushing's calldll Python Module on a windows box.  I don't
understand how to install it.  I have several books that do not detail the
steps in installing a 3rd party module in Windows.  Anybody want to throw me
life preserver?




From teiffel at attglobal.net  Wed Mar  3 18:02:10 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:02:10 -0500
Subject: function arguments passed by reference
In-Reply-To: <104cj8vkrqb6i20@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.8.1078344338.736.python-list@python.org>
	<104cj8vkrqb6i20@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <404663F2.5040602@attglobal.net>

John Roth wrote:

>"Marcello Pietrobon" <teiffel at attglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.8.1078344338.736.python-list at python.org...
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>My background is C++
>>
>>I would like to know for sure if it is possible to pass a value by
>>reference to a function AND having it changed by the function itself
>>
>>
>>def changeValue( text ):
>>    text = 'c'
>>    print text
>>    return
>>
>> >>> txt = 'a'
>> >>>changeValue( txt )
>>'c'
>> >>>print txt
>>'a'
>>
>>Question 1)
>>I guess that in Python ( differently than in C++)  somehow txt is passed
>>by reference even if its value is not changed.
>>Is this true ?
>>
>>Question 2)
>>How can I define a function that changes the value of txt ( without
>>having to return the changed value ) ?
>>
>>Question 3)
>>Is there some documentation talking extensively about this ?
>>    
>>
>
>The key concept is that everything is an object, and all objects
>are passed by reference in the sense that what's bound to the
>funtion's parameters is the objects that were passed in.
>
>However, you cannot affect the bindings in the calling environment.
>Regardless of what you do (unless you do some deep magic with
>the invocation stack) nothing is going to affect the bindings in the
>caller.
>
>So you can rebind anything you want to the parameters within
>the function, and it will have no effect on the calling environment.
>
>On the other hand, if you mutate a mutable object that was passed
>as a parameter, that change will be visible after you return.
>
>For  example:
>
>def foo(bar):
>    bar = "shazoom"
>
>a = "shazam"
>foo(a)
>
>The result is that a is still "shazam."
>
>However, if you do this:
>
>def foo(bar):
>    bar.append("shazoom")
>
>a = ["shazam"]
>foo(a)
>
>the result is:
>
>["shazam", "shazoom"]
>
>HTH
>John Roth
>
>"shazoom" ::= ["strength", "health", "aptitude", "zeal", "ox, power of",
>"ox, power of another", "money"]
>
>whatever the value you passed in remains.
>  
>

Thank you for the answers,

difficult to get used to these concepts after coming from C++ !
But I am starting to understand:
the main difference between Python and C++ is that I need to keep in 
mind what is mutable and what is not mutable in Python

Cheers,
Marcello





From sjf at autograf.pl  Mon Mar  1 10:34:22 2004
From: sjf at autograf.pl (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:34:22 +0100
Subject: Reading selected data from text files
References: <c1njho$adr$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<MVK%b.7974$lS1.1103@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c1vl6l$lle$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

U?ytkownik "Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:MVK%b.7974$lS1.1103 at fe2.texas.rr.com...
> "..:: sjf ::.." <sjf at autograf.pl> wrote in message
> news:c1njho$adr$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
> > Hello Pythoners!
> >
> > There are a lot of files containing data such as:
> >
> > file1:
> > 0950 1550
> >
> > file22:
> > 0952 1552
> >
> <snip>
> > --
> > ..:: sjf ::..
> > "Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"
> Try this:
>
> import sets
> import os
>
> uniqueElems = sets.Set()
>
> testdata = """
> 0950 1550
> 0952 1552
> 1000 1020 1050 1130 1150 1200 1245 1600
> 1002 1022 1052 1132 1152 1202 1247 1602
> 1005 1025 1055 1135 1155 1205 1250 1605
> """
> for line in testdata.split("\n"):
>     uniqueElems.update( line.split() )
>     # if running Python 2.3.1 or later, replace previous line with
>     # uniqueElems |= line.split()
                             ^^^^^^^
OK, but what is that?


--
..:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"



From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Mar  9 11:57:52 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:57:52 GMT
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<pecora-B27EA8.11594308032004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc4rs8k.ks3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c718a6cf.0403090836.564f690b at posting.google.com>, Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
>> > Step away from the computer slowly . . .
>> > 
>> > There is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to use GOTO in any modern
>> > language, ESPECIALLY Python, EVER!
>> > 
>> > No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.
>> 
>> 
>> Bull.  I've used goto's in similar cases as those presented.  I have 
>> found that in the right cases they are quite readable.  Never had a 
>> problem with them when used like this.
>> 
>> So you didn't answer the question, how would you do this clearly in 
>> Python?
>> 
> 
> same way you would do it in any other OBJECT ORIENTED language. Use
> the appropriate pattern.

Which would be what?  (No, it's not exceptions.  Stay away from this
thread until you understand why it's not.)

Joe


From john at neggie.net  Wed Mar 24 16:39:31 2004
From: john at neggie.net (John Belmonte)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:39:31 -0500
Subject: portable /dev/null again
In-Reply-To: <16481.62214.163592.282439@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>	<16481.60337.370411.907718@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<4061ED09.1080506@neggie.net>
	<16481.62214.163592.282439@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <40620013.30702@neggie.net>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> In general you can't pass file descriptors between programs.

A library I'm using requires a file descriptor to output to, and I'd 
like to give it /dev/null.

> While I agree you can open /dev/null for reading, it's rarely used that way.

Agreed, I suggested it for completeness.

> If you want something that returns an honest-to-god file object, how about:
> 
>     import os
>     def nullfile(mode="wb"):
>         return file(os.path.exists("/dev/null") and
>                     "/dev/null" or
>                     "nul:", mode)

This code will break if Python ever supports a new OS that doesn't use 
one of those file names.

> Guido made an astute observation the other day which I can't find at the
> moment.  It went something like, "The biggest problem I have now is
> convincing people that just because something's not already in the standard
> library doesn't mean it belongs there."  I suspect this applies.  If a
> portable null file object is the cats pajamas for you, write something and
> throw it in your personal toolbox or post it to your personal Python page
> where others can find it.

I'm not interested in cats or pajamas, just the os library telling me 
what the null filename is for the OS I'm running on, just as it tells me 
what the path separator, etc. is.  I've already put an implementation in 
  my local library, but it may well break in the future as I've 
explained, and I feel other Python users facing this shouldn't have to 
do the same.

-John


-- 
http:// if  ile.org/



From garryknight at gmx.net  Sun Mar 14 12:25:58 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:25:58 +0000
Subject: where can I find Paris Hilton video?
References: <Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA@look.ca>
	<20040314105158.138$FE@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <1079285158.21022.2@echo.uk.clara.net>

In message <20040314105158.138$FE at news.newsreader.com>, Mike W. wrote:

> 
> "montezum" <line_guibert-wolff at hc-sc.gc.ca> wrote in message
> news:Vd2dnQi55L8-S87d4p2dnA at look.ca...
>> where can I find Paris Hilton video?
> 
> Most likely not in any of these groups....

But you could ask anyone you see standing around outside the Paris Hilton
with a video camera...

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Wed Mar 17 05:22:47 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:22:47 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads and signals
Message-ID: <OF19C0AAB5.159E39BA-ONC1256E5A.0038560B@lbbw.sko.de>


Hi,
put some debug output in the code (print statements in the shutdown
function).
Does the shutdown function get called when you issue the signal?
How exactly do you handle the event communication in the treads? shutdown
methods?
Please post the relevant code.
Btw, I am new to python2.x (not new to python, though). This is not working
code,
is it?
threads = {}
threads["dircheck"] = TimedDirectoryCheck("/tmp/dpf/notify")
threads["process"] = BatchProcessor()
# start the threads
for th in threads:
    th.start()  # <---- Does that work???

    Cheers
    Holger

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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar 26 23:04:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:04:22 -0600
Subject: Passing items of a lsit as arguments
In-Reply-To: <c427fr$22qgbe$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c427fr$22qgbe$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040327040422.GA21568@unpythonic.net>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 09:31:47PM +0000, Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I want to call a function that was defined with *args in the header, e.g. 
> the Tkinter.Canvas.create_polygon function. I got the coordinates in a 
> long list but how can I achieve that every item in this list is passed as 
> a single parameter?
> 
> Example:
> bla = [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6), ...]
> has to become
> create_polygon((1,2), (3,4), (5,6), ..., fill=blue)

You can call the functions with the arguments you want this way:
    create_polygon(*bla + (...,), **{'fill'=blue})

However, Tkinter.Canvas is forgiving in the way it accepts arguments.
For instance, this works just fine:
    >>> c.create_polygon([(10, 10), (10, 30), (30, 30), (30, 10)],  fill="blue")
or even
    >>> c.create_polygon([40, 40, 60, 40, 60, 60, 40, 60], fill="green")
so just write '...create_polygon(bla, ..., fill=blue)'.

Jeff



From zh at li.org  Tue Mar 30 02:51:50 2004
From: zh at li.org (zh at li.org)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:51:50 +0900
Subject: Failure (python-list@python.org)
Message-ID: <20040330075150.E8ABB31794@yellow.sys.hokudai.ac.jp>

------------------  Virus Warning Message (on vw2)

Found virus WORM_NETSKY.Q in file data3420.zip
The file data3420.zip is moved to /etc/iscan/virus/virENC86a4wO.

- Hokkaido University VirusWall -----------------
-------------- next part --------------

Mail Delivery Failure - This mail couldn't be shown.

------------- failed message -------------
TXe~?r#_.Ws-?UuVY7Ux_FwpK:p7kbiv%2rNg4k&NV?0t;$
8)L?nh;GdyR~)k+#zi6$doJ%*d7't?Xr%|5Hv0IHV$Q$?A
BZ;iO)>n5!W'!MV$yAPyFM??zrr1v_0A38.gO~d;.4L
?<XS9Nwswubo3sz<&#mF

Message has been sent as a binary attachment.

-------------- next part --------------

------------------  Virus Warning Message (on vw2)

data3420.zip is removed from here because it contains a virus.

- Hokkaido University VirusWall -----------------

From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 22:36:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:36:50 -0500
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <vpmdnYhWhJ1PkMDdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Carl Banks wrote:
> You know what?  I'd like to have a fast, compiled language that looks
> like Python, too.

Great.  Now _why_ would it have to be compiled?  "Fast" is 
understandable (though not an absolute measure), but "compiled" is 
meaningless without some reason behind it.

Compilation is not something which inherently delivers any particular 
value to anyone.  Depending on the specifics of the problem at hand, it 
_might_ be a way of getting better performance, or better packaging, etc.

So I'd like a faster Python too (at least, for purposes of the current 
discussion... it's actually plenty fast for me), but I couldn't care 
less if it were compiled because that's an implementation detail or 
something.

-Peter


From thehofffs at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 21:44:43 2004
From: thehofffs at hotmail.com (Emhoff)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 18:44:43 -0800
Subject: Regular expressions and sub
Message-ID: <1c750f1c.0403251844.3e027d93@posting.google.com>

Hey hey --

I've got a question about regular expression substitions.  Basically,
I want to do something like this:

re.sub(r"(stuff)|(blah)", r"I was \00", "stuff blah")

Which would yield the string "I was stuff I was blah" -- but I get "I
was \x00 I was \x00" because apparently the replace string is simply
being interpreted as a normal string, and not a regular expression.

So, my question is, is there a simple way to do what I want?

Thanks much,
John


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 03:54:23 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 09:54:23 +0100
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<j6t3505n7n9v62snui59g3l7fb71598rpr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyfhdwq4hj4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> >You can maintain that consistency by extending the list of
> >"boundaries" which define scopes; you already mentioned classes,
> >functions and modules ... now simply add list comprehensions (or
> >loops), and you will maintain perfect consistency of treatment of
> >local variables, without leaking variables out of list comprehensions
> >(or loops).
> 
> I think the current design of Python is the right compromise between
> narrow scopes that avoid conflicts between identical names and broad
> scopes that minimize the need for global declarations.  Imagine having
> to declare globals inside every loop that needed to set some value
> outside of its own tiny little scope.

And what if the variable I want to affect is in an enclosing scope,
but not the global scope ?

Doesn't this rather suggest that the whole global declaration business
is rather flawed? It sort of made sense when we only had 3 scopes in
Python (only 2 of which were "userland" scopes) , but with nested
scopes it's simply not up to the job. Ultimately, the problem can be
traced to having no distinction between inctroducting a new binding
and rebinding an existing name.


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 14:48:24 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 11:48:24 -0800
Subject: DLL version number
References: <8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e@posting.google.com>
	<404d1159_5@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403091148.19e75629@posting.google.com>

"Roger Upole" <rupole at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<404d1159_5 at 127.0.0.1>...
> You can use win32api.GetFileVersionInfo.
> See /demos/getfilever.py for an example of how to use it.
>        Roger
> 
> "Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8ef9bea6.0403081509.31b3f9e at posting.google.com...
> >
> > If I have a Windows DLL file, how can I retrieve its version number
> > (e.g.: 2.40.4275.1)? Does Win32 extensions, ctypes or related modules
> > provide such a utility?

Thanks. However, I still have problems. What I need are the 4-part
version numbers, which GetFileVersionInfo() does not provide.

I tried several alternatives, including GetFileVersionInfo() and the
mwi module. However, these alternatives do NOT give the 4-part version
number that one sees by right-clicking on a DLL (on Win2k.) The
puzzling part is that apparently at the C level, the data structure
_DllVersionInfo contains only 3 parts: dwMajorVersion, dwMinorVersion,
dwBuildNumber.

(For COMCAT.DLL, GetFileVersionInfo() gives only two-part version
number: 4.71, whereas if you right click in Windows 2000, you get a
four-part version number: 4.71.1460.1)

Anyway, the relationship between the 4-part version number and the
3-part version number is highly non-trivial and I do not see any easy
rules that applies to all DLLs. (For some DLLs, the last part of a
3-part version number can be split into the last two parts of the
4-version number, but this rule is not universal.)

I wonder what Windows uses internally to get the 4-part version
numbers?

regards,

Hung Jung


From claird at lairds.com  Thu Mar 11 10:24:25 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:24:25 -0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<fkbv40dh57pk9527seaf3etjd0k7kncugc@4ax.com>
	<40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1051159aq8rifd0@corp.supernews.com>

In article <40507cd4$0$15845$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>,
Peter Hickman  <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Maybe what we need is a language that has only a grammer and the syntax 
>/ vocabulary comes from the objects. Or is that AppleScript?

Forth.  Lisp.  Tcl.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From deets_noospaam at web.de  Sun Mar  7 18:52:34 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:52:34 +0100
Subject: dynamic names
References: <a312aab6.0403071126.45582cea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2gck2$1mu$03$2@news.t-online.com>

Val Bykoski wrote:
>     tot=tot + ("L%s" % L)

Here you seem to miss an exec - the line should probably read like this: 

tot = tot + exec("L%s" % L)

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Mar 15 04:03:13 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 01:03:13 -0800
Subject: xml.minidom and threads
References: <9106c987.0403120759.6b1df015@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403150103.1896dbbc@posting.google.com>

Sunil Movva <sunilmovva at hotmail.com> wrote:

> So, I came to suspect if xml.minidom module is thread-safe. 

No it isn't, but I doubt this is your problem as you don't seem to be
trying to access the DOM Nodes from multiple threads, let alone
concurrently. (Is there any good reason why you need to serialise and
re-parse between each thread?)

A SAXParseException is generally what it says on the tin, caused by
faulty syntax in the XML document being parsed. It is conceivable that
minidom's serialisation code at the second-thread-output stage is
producing something wrong; we'd have to have a look at the string the
third thread is trying to parse to find out what.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From bobx at linuxmail.org  Sat Mar  6 18:18:17 2004
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Robert)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:18:17 -0500
Subject: Tkinter3000
Message-ID: <89WdnQhnm6Gkwdfd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>

Is the WCK still an active project? Also, at one point there was going 
to be an O'Reilly book on Tkinter, did that die?

Robert


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Mar  1 13:55:21 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 10:55:21 -0800
Subject: Thoughts on new vs traditional idioms
References: <5d83790c.0402290218.2d3c493f@posting.google.com>
	<m34qt87oah.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403011055.1fea6bff@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<m34qt87oah.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> Well, I think calling __init__ directly is a horrendous idea.  It just
> reads badly.
> 

Seconded.

   Michele


From me at privacy.net  Sat Mar 13 08:22:35 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 08:22:35 -0500
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
	<92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2y8q4dgpw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On 12 Mar 2004 23:08:19 -0800,
jcb at iteris.com (MetalOne) wrote:

> I do not like style guidelines either.  If one method can be
> factually proven better than another method, then it would make
> sense to encourage the better method.  However, when this can't
> be done, then the guideline is simply based upon taste or gut
> instinct or personal preference.  These all vary from person to
> person and who is to say what is correct.

Agreed.

> During my schooling I was taught to always place statements on their
> own line.
> x = 0
> y = 0
> z = 0

> I accepted this completely without thinking about it much.
> 20 years later I have finally come to realize that if (x,y,z)
> represents a point that
> x = y = z = 0    or
> (x,y,z) = (0,0,0)
> is not always so bad.  It conserves lines of code, and being able to
> see more lines of code at one time is beneficial.

In python,

    x = y = z = 0
    (x, y, z) = (0, 0, 0)

is exactly two statements, so all is still well with the world.  ;-)

> Some guidelines recommend functions with only a single return
> point.  I don't understand why this insanity got started.  At
> one point it was recognized that multiple entry points into a
> function was confusing, but why did it have to get extrapolated
> to multiple exit points.  Upon entry to a function, I sometimes
> like to verify that everything is ok before proceeding and if it
> is not just get out.  Parameters can validated, resources
> acquired, or whatever.

It's that "resources acquired" part that messes people up.  I've
seen it over and over and over again.  Memory leaks.  Dangling
pointers.  Unrecoverable file handles.  Especially as functions
that acquire lots of resources evolve over time and someone adds
code to acquire another resource or detect another error condition
and then doesn't find all the subsequent exit points.  It's less
of an issue with languages with proper garbage collection, but it
can be a real nightmare in (e.g.) C or assembler.  Unit tests that
cover all possible resource leaks are difficult to construct
correctly.  C++ partially addresses the problem with RIAA (if
coders use it properly) and a hodgepodge of "smart" objects that
do pseudo self-garbage collection.

A single exit point also gives me a fighting chance to add
something to the logical end of a function, like setting the "I'm
done" flag or logging the result.

If I know that my function only has one exit point, then it's also
easier to add "let's see what this function is returning"
debugging code, because I know exactly where to put it and where
to look for it later when I want to take it out.  In some systems,
the fact that a given function reaches its (single) exit point is
extremely valuable information.

OTOH, I'm usually the first one to stand up at a design review and
declare that some function or some method is too long or too
complex and should be broken up *before* such problems occur.

And that all said, I agree that a bunch of pre-checks and a quick
exit, BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, near the top of a function can
make the rest of some functions much more clear.  Again, I've seen
it a million times:  I'll add one more validation down here, but
forget to release that memory we just acquired up there.

> At my work we currently have a guideline to always use brackets in
> "if" statements.
> if
> {
>     single statement
> }
> else
> {
>     single statement
> }

Yep, those guidelines are useless.  Shouldn't we spend our code
review time doing something productive?

> And so it goes.  I guess I am a believer in TIMTOWTDI.

The more code I read, the more I wish people would use the
*obvious* way.  ;-)

> The other thing about guidelines is that once somebody publishes
> a book with guidelines, lookout.  Your employer may soon have
> you following them all whether you agree with them or not.
> Rational Rose and UML are great examples of this, but that is
> another story.

Yes it is, and I have lived it.  Eeuuww.

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 25 06:24:57 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:24:57 +0100
Subject: Problems with py2exe 0.50 and win98se and win2k
References: <a091da2f.0403241125.62360fc6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4qsdcgom.fsf@python.net>

jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Laamnna) writes:

> So, users of my program have been reporting the following: On Win98SE
> the program refuses to start, at all.  On Windows2000, they get a
> dialog box saying: "The procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not
> be located ... in kernel32.dll" Screenshot:
> http://not-9-plz.com/beibhinn/kort.jpg
>
> With previous py2exe versions, there have been no problems.

Can it be that py2exe collects some system dlls in the dist dir?

Thomas




From alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  2 13:52:18 2004
From: alx5962NOSPAN at yahoo.com (Alex)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:52:18 +0100
Subject: variable name using a for
Message-ID: <4044d7f3$0$4664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hi
I would like to create a variable (a string) in 'for' statement with a name
linked to the for value.
Like this:
for y in range(nbSujets):
    name + str(y) = 'abc'

But it doesn't work with Python.... I read the official documentation but I
was not able to find infos about this..
How to make this works please?

Thanks
Alex




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Mar 13 00:24:12 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:24:12 -0800
Subject: Unicode is driving me nuts!
References: <20040312231904.63687.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.336.1079138085.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <seiai1-2ef.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Unicode creates lots of problems for the uninitiated.

For the uninitiated, I heartily recommend Joel's article:

  http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

Roger




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 11 13:19:28 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:19:28 -0600
Subject: backquote
In-Reply-To: <OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0403110753.5c4d437a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.277.1079020800.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<OW14c.904$vI3.875@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <16464.44464.132738.996372@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> `object` is equivalent to repr(object).

    Paul> Is this syntax one of those vestigial short-cuts that is on
    Paul> somebody's hit list for future deprecation?  

I suspect so, but not before Python 3.

Skip



From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Wed Mar 17 20:20:22 2004
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:20:22 -0500
Subject: Swig-Python problems
In-Reply-To: <cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4@posting.google.com>
References: <cdb8761d.0403150739.5de0fee4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nP66c.7521$Eb6.246596@news20.bellglobal.com>

matteo wrote:

> Hi, I've got a problem with SWIG and Python2.2.I've installed the
> SWIG1.3.21 releaseunder QNX6.2 platform .I tried to make the exemple
> example.c (in the directory ../Swig/Exemple/python/simple)
> /* File : example.c */
>  
>  #include <time.h>
>  double My_variable = 3.0;
>  
>  int fact(int n) {
>      if (n <= 1) return 1;
>      else return n*fact(n-1);
>  }
>  
>  int my_mod(int x, int y) {
>      return (x%y);
>  }
>  	
>  char *get_time()
>  {
>      time_t ltime;
>      time(&ltime);
>      return ctime(&ltime);
>  }.
> After the commans:
> 
>  swig -python example.i
>  gcc -c example.c example_wrap.c -I/usr/local/python2.2
>  ld -shared example.o example_wrap.o -o _example.so 
> 
>  I use Python module as follows
> 
>  >>> import example
> 
> and I've got the message: "Memory falut (core dumped)"
> What can I do??

What does your interface space file (examplei.i) contain?



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Mar  5 10:49:44 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:49:44 -0600
Subject: reg exp and octal notation
In-Reply-To: <b312c.2624$O31.66196@news4.tin.it>
References: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it>
	<4048938a$0$41754$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<b312c.2624$O31.66196@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20040305154944.GE31275@unpythonic.net>

If you have a string and want to perform backslash-substitution on it,
use python2.3's "string_escape" codec.

Two examples:

>>> s = "\\n"
>>> s
'\\n'
>>> s.decode("string_escape")
'\n'

>>> "\x30"
'0'
>>> "\\x30"  
'\\x30'
>>> "\\x30".decode("string_escape")
'0'

You can remove the trailing newline this way:
    if s.endswith("\n"): s = s[:-1]

Jeff



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Mar  1 16:29:59 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:29:59 -0600
Subject: Function calling another function
In-Reply-To: <00c201c3ffda$2293c990$559ea380@D4XN6B41>
References: <00c201c3ffda$2293c990$559ea380@D4XN6B41>
Message-ID: <20040301212959.GE6936@unpythonic.net>

Code very much like yours works fine here.
One reason it might not work in your case is if the "..." part of 'def
x()' creates a local variable named y.

    $ cat /tmp/basic_one.py
    def main():
        y()
        x()

    def y():
        print "y"

    def x():
        print "x"
        y()

    main()
    $ python /tmp/basic_one.py
    y
    x
    y

Jeff



From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Wed Mar 10 09:46:18 2004
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:46:18 +0100
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <404f2a3b$0$726$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> 
>     from Tkinter import (Tk, Frame, Button, Entry, Canvas, Text
>         LEFT, DISABLED, NORMAL, RIDGE, END)

+1

> Here are the contenders:
> 
> * One from Guido::
> 
>       from .foo import
>
>   and ::
> 
>       from ...foo import

+1

I presume 
   from ..sibpack import amod
will import from a sibling package; a common need.

IMO relative imports should be preferred over absolute imports. An
absolute import is sort of like a global variable. Relative imports
should require minimal effort and look good.

It has been argued that the dot is too small and easily overlooked.
However, it is replacing something that's _completely_ invisible, and
I haven't heard at lot of complaints about that.  And if the dot-count
is off it's not a big problem, you get an import error and fix it.

>The final option is to define an algorithm
>   for finding relative modules and packages; the objection here is
>   "Explicit is better than implicit".  (The algorithm proposed is
>   "search up from current package directory until the ultimate package
>   parent gets hit".)

-1. Too DWIM.

- Anders




From http  Mon Mar 22 22:27:59 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 19:27:59 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Trevor Perrin <trevp_spam at trevp.net> writes:
> Actually, Random could be made even easier to subclass.  getrandbits
> (which is new in 2.4) returns a long.  It would be better for us if
> there was a getrandstring() function that an underlying generator
> could implement.  This would also be a helpful addition to the API, at
> least for cryptographic uses.

I agree with this, and was going to propose the same thing.
getrandbits can be defined easily in terms of getrandstring, and the
current sample sharandom implemenation at

   http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.py

does something along those lines.


From no at sp.am  Thu Mar 11 12:42:56 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:42:56 -0600
Subject: Video module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.265.1079003910.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.265.1079003910.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <N6GdnVikUoC9OM3d4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Is anybody aware of some good Python module for playing video (mpeg-2,
> mov, avi or similar)? I looked at pygame.movie, but it does not seem
> stable enough for my purposes. I have also tried using Windows Media
> Player with COM, but that is cumbersome. The module must work on Windows
> (and preferably on Linux as well). Basically, what I need to be able to
> do is play a selected interval of the movie and if possible also rip
> the sound track from the movie file as a WAV file.

On windows, those are the only two options I know of - pygame or 
activex/com.   On mac, you have quicktime, too.
Or you could use jython and java with the java media framework or qtjava.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 13:54:07 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 19:54:07 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfad2irlf4.fsf@lxplus040.cern.ch>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:

[...]

> Right. I should listen to you because you are an authority on Typing
> but ignore Guido van Rossum.

No, I am saying that you should try using your brain.

> So you are saying the Guido van Rossum doesn't know what he is talking
> about and I should take it from you what he really meant?

No, I am saying that you should try thinking about the _meaning_ of
the words in the context in which they appear.

> you are positing to know what he really meant.

I am suggesting an interpretation of what he said, which you are free
to accept or reject. However, I recommend that you accept or reject it
on the basis of some _thoughtful_ consideration of the information being
presented to you. You appear to be bent on not thinking at all.

> > ... he seems to be suggesting that Python is NOT weakly typed ... so
> > the implication seems to be that it IS strongly typed. What he's
> > really hinting at is the fact that weak-vs-strong and
> > static-vs-dynamic are orthogonal axes.
> 
> Well if we are to assume that Guido doesn't know what he is talking
> about then you can probably twist his words to suit whatever you want
> him to mean (as opposed to what he actually said).
> 
> 
> > (Hint: "runtime typing" is almost synonymous with "dynamic typing".)
> 
> Hint: Guido used the words 'strong', 'weak' and 'runtime' in the same
> discussion and clearly delineated one from the others.

Hint: read it again, and try to _think_ about what it actually means,
rather than trying to find support for your misconceptions.

> > What an absurd statement. You are suggesting that Python's type system
> > somehow depends on the relative magnitudes of two people's knowledge.
> 
> When one of them is the creator and guiding light of the language. Yes.

So, if Guido were to have a stroke tonight and become a human
vegetable, thereby making my knowledge of Python exceed his, Python's
type system would magically change from weak to strong overnight ?

Just _think_ about what you are saying.

Python's type system is what it is, regardless of anybody's opinion
about it, and regardless of how knowledgeable anybody is about
anything. This is blatantly obvious to anyone who actually _thinks_
about it.

> > I certainly don't know more about Python than Guido does, but I do
> > appear to know more about type system nomenclature than Guido does :-)
> 
> Is this a resort to argument from authority. (no smiley)

Did you even read the very next thing I wrote? which you conveniently
(for your trolling purposes) elided.

> > Argument from authority is remains very unconvincing, even if that
> > authority is Guido himself.
> 
> pot/kettle/black

I presented you with an explanation of what I consider strong, weak,
static and dynamic typing to mean. I pointed out to you that in the
very piece of an interview you quoted, Guido seems to be agreeing with
me. Nowhere am I suggesting that you believe me because of my
"authority"; I am suggesting that you _think_ about what is being
said.

All you have to say is "Guido this, Guido that".

Are you capable of thinking for yourself ?

(Congratulations for making me sound like Erik Naggum).

Now, if you want to discuss what strong, weak, static and dynamic
typing means, and how it applies to various languages, then I'm happy
to discuss it with you. If all you are going to do is repeat your
misconceptions and your religious belief in Guido's complete
infallability, then don't be surprised if you don't hear from me
again.


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Mon Mar  1 14:11:12 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:11:12 +0100
Subject: default print format for floats
References: <3064b51d.0403011046.4238998d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c201sl$aif$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

<beliavsky at aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3064b51d.0403011046.4238998d at posting.google.com...
| By default, Python prints many floating point numbers with 17 digits
| after the decimal place. I would like to make the DEFAULT 4 decimal
| places. Is this possible?
|
| For example, the code
|
| from string import join
| x = [1.0,0.3,0.4]
| print x
| print join(["%4.1f" % y for y in x])
|
| gives the output
|
| [1.0, 0.29999999999999999, 0.40000000000000002]
|  1.0  0.3  0.4
|
| I want the simplicity of "print x", without so many decimal places.

I wouldn't cjanging "DEFAULT BEHAVIOR", but a slight modification of the
above
gives you:

>>> x = [1.0, 0.3, 0.4]
>>> print ", ".join(["%.4f" % y for y in x])
1.0000, 0.3000, 0.4000

Is this what you're after?

HTH,

Vincent Wehren





From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar 15 21:18:19 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:18:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040316021819.14345.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
wrote: > Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> 
> > Perhaps you should read the following
> 
> I have read it before. I still disagree with the
> implication that
> Python is weakly typed just much as I did when I
> first read it.

I second that. Python *is* strongly typed.

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Mar 12 05:36:44 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:36:44 +0100
Subject: How to add pairs to a dict?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.302.1079080716.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.302.1079080716.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2s3pu$bcc$1@swifty.westend.com>

Anthony Liu schrieb:
> I want to keep adding pairs my phone_book dict like
> so:
> 
> phone_book={'jack':2313, 'john':3436}
> 
> And then each time when a new pair is created, for
> example, 'tom':5678, I want to add it to the dict so
> that the dict becomes 
> 
> phone_book={'jack':2313, 'john':3436}

I assume you want

phone_book['tom'] = 5678

which leaves phone_book as

{'jack':2313, 'john':3436, 'tom':5678}

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jeff at nwbc-chicago.org  Wed Mar 31 17:41:15 2004
From: jeff at nwbc-chicago.org (Jeff Mikels)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:41:15 -0600
Subject: Palm Desktop Syncs with Outlook
Message-ID: <DCEBJNCKAPPLHPKEPACNAECCGIAA.jeff@nwbc-chicago.org>

Here is a python script to synchronize Palm Desktop Datebook files with Outlook's Calendar

I'm releasing it under the Python license as version 0.1.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


''' palm2Outlook.py

Author: Jeff Mikels
Version: 0.1
License: Python
Purpose: Synchronize (only one way right now) Palm Desktop with MS Outlook
Usage: just run it, and then select the Calendar Folder to import Palm Desktop items into.
Warning: no duplicates are created. The Palm Desktop information writes over any Outlook items with the same text

Dependencies: palmFile.py, pythonWin
'''

import palmFile, win32com.client

def createAppointment(a,targetFolder):
 return saveAppointment(a,targetFolder.Items.Add( 1 )) #olAppointmentItem = 1

def changeAppointment(a,appt):
 targetFolder = appt.Parent
 appt.Delete()
 return createAppointment(a,targetFolder)

def saveAppointment(a,appt):
 ''' from palmFile
 calendarEntryFields = (
 "recordID",
 "status",
 "position",
 "startTime",
 "endTime",
 "text",
 "duration",
 "note",
 "untimed",
 "private",
 "category",
 "alarmSet",
 "alarmAdvUnits",
 "alarmAdvType",
 "repeatEvent"
 )
 '''
 try:
  if a['untimed']:
   appt.AllDayEvent = 1
   
  appt.Start = makeTime(a['startTime'])
  appt.End = makeTime(a['endTime'])
  appt.Subject = a['text']
  appt.Body = a['note']
  
  if a['alarmSet']:
   if a['alarmAdvType'] == 0:
    appt.ReminderMinutesBeforeStart = a['alarmAdvUnits']
   elif a['alarmAdvType'] == 1: #hours
    appt.ReminderMinutesBeforeStart = a['alarmAdvUnits'] * 60
   else: #a['alarmAdvType'] = 2: #days
    appt.ReminderMinutesBeforeStart = a['alarmAdvUnits'] * 60 * 24
  else:
   appt.ReminderSet = 0
   
  if a['repeatEvent']['repeatEventFlag']:
   repeatDetails = appt.GetRecurrencePattern()
   if a['repeatEvent']['brand'] == 1: #daily
    repeatDetails.RecurrenceType = 0 #olRecursDaily = 0
    
   elif a['repeatEvent']['brand'] == 2: #weekly
    repeatDetails.RecurrenceType = 1 #olRecursWeekly = 1
    repeatDetails.DayOfWeekMask = ord(a['repeatEvent']['brandDaysMask'])
    
   elif a['repeatEvent']['brand'] == 3: #monthly by day
    repeatDetails.RecurrenceType = 3 #olRecursMonthlyNth = 3
    repeatDetails.Instance = a['repeatEvent']['brandWeekIndex'] + 1 #Palm uses 0 for first week, but Outlook uses 1
    #For Day of Week, Palm only uses one possible day
    #and not a whole mask like Outlook. This field has Monday = 0 and Sunday = 6
    #Outlook is looking for Sunday = 2**0, Monday = 2**1, Tues = 2**2 etc.
    repeatDetails.DayOfWeekMask = 2**((a['repeatEvent']['brandDayIndex']+1) % 7)
    
   elif a['repeatEvent']['brand'] == 4: #monthly by date
    repeatDetails.RecurrenceType = 2 #olRecursMonthly = 2
    repeatDetails.DayOfMonth = a['repeatEvent']['brandDayNumber']
    
   elif a['repeatEvent']['brand'] == 5: #yearly
    repeatDetails.RecurrenceType = 5 #olRecursYearly = 5
    repeatDetails.MonthOfYear = a['repeatEvent']['brandMonthIndex'] + 1 #Palm stores this from 0-11
    repeatDetails.DayOfMonth = a['repeatEvent']['brandDayNumber']
    
   repeatDetails.PatternStartDate = makeDate(a['startTime'])
   repeatDetails.Interval = a['repeatEvent']['interval']
   if a['repeatEvent']['endDate'] != 1956545999:
    repeatDetails.PatternEndDate = makeDate(a['repeatEvent']['endDate'])
   
  appt.Save()
  return appt
 except:
  import pprint
  print '\nSAVE APPOINTMENT ERROR:\n\tsaveAppointment encountered an error while saving this item.\n'
  pprint.pprint(a)
  print '\n'
  return None
 
 
def findAppt(a,folderToSearch):
 try:
  return folderToSearch.Items.Find('[Subject] = "' + a['text'] + '"')
 except:
  import pprint
  print '\nFIND APPOINTMENT ERROR:\n\tfindAppt encountered an error looking for this event\n'
  pprint.pprint(a)
  print '\n'
  return None

def makeDate(timeval):
 import time
 retVal = time.localtime(timeval)
 return str(retVal[1]) + '/' + str(retVal[2]) + '/' + str(retVal[0]) # m/d/yyyy
 
def makeTime(timeval):
 import time
 retVal = time.strftime("%m/%d/%Y %I:%M %p", time.localtime(timeval))
 return retVal
 
def parseOlTime(timestring):
 import time
 retVal = time.mktime(time.strptime(timestring,'%m/%d/%y %H:%M:%S'))
 return retVal


palmData = 'c:\\Program Files\\Palm\\MikelsJ\\datebook\\datebook.dat'
fileStruct = palmFile.readPalmFile(palmData)
events = fileStruct[0]['datebookList']
#events = palmFile.getUpcomingEvents(fileStruct,7)
ol = win32com.client.Dispatch("Outlook.Application")
olNS = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI")
#olFolders = olNS.Folders()
calFolder = olNS.PickFolder()
#calFolder = olNS.Folders('Personal Folders').Folders('Calendar-Test')

for event in events:
 appointment = findAppt(event,calFolder)
 if not appointment:
  appointment = createAppointment(event,calFolder)
  #appointment.Display()
 else:
  pass
  #appointment = changeAppointment(event,appointment)
  #appointment.Display()


'''
DEFINING CONSTANTS
with win32com we can read the constants directly from Outlook's Object model at runtime

from win32com.client import gencache
gencache.EnsureModule('{00062FFF-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}', 0, 9, 0)

or

specify the constants directly
olAppointmentItem = 1

or run C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\makepy.py and select Microsoft Outlook
this step parses all the constants and win32com keeps track of them
I've done this, so I can just use the constants (theoretically)
'''


 



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From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 01:25:43 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:25:43 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4067C167.5050708@mlug.missouri.edu>


>The basic difficulty with tabs is that there are a huge
>number of programs "in the wild" that treat tabs
>differently. Unless you're completely in control of all
>the programs that will ever be used to edit and display
>your program, using tabs will cause formatting errors
>somewhere, to someone under some circumstance
>that you never thought of.
>  
>
Which programs? I find spaces to cause weird issues. Especially if you 
use some half assed editor that uses variable width fonts.

>The problems with mixed tabs and spaces are even
>worse: you can lose indentation and totally mess up
>the program so it won't even compile if you use the
>wrong tools on such a program.
>  
>
That'd just be bad programming to use different formatting standards 
within the same program. At least within the same file.

>This is the basic reason why the current standard for
>library modules is 4 space indentation; it's the only
>thing that is, for all practical purposes, guaranteed to
>work for everyone, with any editor, formatter,
>renderer and printer out there.
>  
>
I don't see how it is any better than a standard of always using a 
single tab or space for indention. I hate code that requires me to press 
multiple space or delete keys to change the block level of a line of 
code. I'm a coder and therefore am lazy. Why press four keys when I 
could press one?

>Python is not Perl. Python's philosophy has never
>been to provide several different ways of doing things
>just to provide different ways. There needs to be a
>demonstrated benefit to the different ways, and tabs
>don't make that cut. If you want the space savings,
>ziping the file will do much better.
>  
>
I'm not a fan of multiple ways but I think it's different to remove a 
feature than to add a feature. Breaking existing code for pointless 
reasons is bad. I'd rather they keep tab support than spaces but since 
both have a historical support I'd be wary of removing either. Again 
zipping files is adding additional steps which IMO is bad from a lazy 
coder point of view. The lazy coder standard of coding keeps code 
simple. Smaller isn't a significant problem in most cases.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  9 14:26:03 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:26:03 -0500
Subject: While: else: (was Re: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python)
References: <mailman.120.1078757424.19534.python-list@python.org><l94vh1-a3g.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com><20040309035213.GB18682@unpythonic.net><003c01c405a9$b4483720$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3><20040309142924.GI12662@unpythonic.net>
	<c2l3j0$6q7$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c2l5o9$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:c2l3j0$6q7$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> It is ironic that these comments on while-else should arise in a thread
on
> goto.  In:
>
> if condition: something()
> else: somethingelse()
>
> it is clear somethingelse executes when condition is false.  If Python
had
> label and goto statements, one could write:
>
> label: start
> if condition:
>   something()
>   modify_condition_vars()
>   goto: label
> else: somethingelse()
>
> It is still clear that somethingelse executes when condition is or
becomes
> false.  The difference is that something may be executed zero to many
times
> first.  Also, barring an infinite loop, somethingelse is guaranteed to
> execute.  In today's real Python, we delete the label and goto and change
> 'if' to 'while' and write the above as
>
> while condition:
>   something()
>   modify_condition_vars()
> else: somethingelse()
>
> It may be less clear, but somethingelse still executes when condition is
or
> becomes false after zero to many executions of something (and
> modify_condition_vars).

Add:  At this point, the else: is useless since the same would be true if
it were omitted.  However ...

> To complicate matters, add a second goto to the pseudoPython:
>
> label: start
> if condition:
>   something()
>   if condition2:
>     goto: done
>   modify_condition_vars()
>   goto: label
> else: somethingelse()
> label: done
>
> Now, somethingelse may be bypassed by the new goto.  So it executes if
and
> when condition is or becomes false, which may or may not never happen.
In
> today's real Python, break is used instead for the same effect.
>
> while condition:
>   something()
>   if comdition2: break
>   modify_condition_vars()
> else: somethingelse()
>
> In the special case of iterating through a list, where the condition is
> 'there is another item in the list', this is condensed further to
>
> for item in list
>   something()
>   if comdition2: break
> else: somethingelse()
>
> Again, somethingelse executes if and when the condition becomes false,
> which is to say, when the list is exhausted (which maybe the reader is by
> now), which process may be 'broken' by the break statement.
>
> Terry J. Reedy






From htgk at mail.com  Mon Mar 22 09:34:47 2004
From: htgk at mail.com (Moe A)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 06:34:47 -0800
Subject: Thread performance
Message-ID: <74dd441a.0403220634.67d0a0c9@posting.google.com>

I'm writing a multi-threaded app in python that uses pygtk..and
obviously the performance of subroutines invoked from a thread rather
than from a GUI callback leave something to be desired.  i cant
implement a simple lock system because most of the threads are started
from the various modules i'm using.  so is there some way to
commandeer the majority of processing power from one of the threads
without making the gui unresponsive?


From eric at zomething.com  Tue Mar 16 02:34:38 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:34:38 -0800
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
Message-ID: <20040315233438.455935233.eric@zomething.com>

alessandro wrote:

> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book, full
> of examples guiding me step to step in the marvellous world of
> programming.

In terms of "books", Learning Python by Lutz and Ascher is very good.

The caveat might be that in 200 pages it will expose you to more programming concepts than you might have to deal with in 500 pages of a book of a 'lesser' language; still, "Learning Python" is clear and easy to absorb.  For example, I was flipping through pages 700-800 of Sams "C# Primer Plus" and did not find any concepts I wasn't familiar with after reading (sometimes skimming) "Learning Python", which is only 366 pages total including Appendices and the Index.

If you want a step-by-step book with tons of examples, and do not care what language, I would suggest "Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days", 885 pages.  It's quite comprehensible.  Get through that, or a good portion of that, then try Python, and I'll bet my $2 you really appreciate Python.

But if you're not stuck on the idea of buying a book, you might just download Python, keep IDLE open on your desktop, and go through some of the online tutorials you can find at http://www.Python.org.  IDLE makes it very easy to learn by doing.  Wonder if something works /this/ way?  Type it in and hit return.  There are great examples posted to this list every day.


Have fun!



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Mar 28 05:11:54 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:11:54 +0300
Subject: os module question
In-Reply-To: <7vt9c.49985$Bg.5493@fed1read03>
References: <pan.2004.03.28.04.16.59.189016@nowhere.net>
	<7vt9c.49985$Bg.5493@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <c46bvt$527$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello Sean,

> os.system() always seems to return all output so I don't know why that
> doesn't work.
The return value is the exit status.

Miki


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Mar 24 19:22:31 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:22:31 -0700
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:48:00 +0000, Stephen Horne
<steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:40:07 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Beginners will learn very quickly that the special symbol
>>means "similar to the standard syntax, but RTFM if you don't yet know
>>this variation".
>
>RTFM doesn't really work when you don't have a keyword to look up.

The extension syntax is *always* associated with a statement.  The
documentation on the extension is at the end of the section on that
statement.

>Symbols (and worse, odd combinations of symbols where it's hard to
>tell which symbols are part of the same syntax rule and which are not)
>that you've not seen before tend not to suggest where in the manual to
>look.

We need a single unique symbol, one that doesn't conflict with
existing syntax, and has no special meaning itself.  By using this
symbol for extensions of *many* statements, we minimize the amount of
new words or syntax users have to learn.

>If 'as' is too generic, then what about 'decorators'. That clearly
>states what follows and can easily be looked up, making the 'RTFM'
>attitude justifiable.

"Decorators" is clear as to its meaning, but a little too long,
especially if it causes statments with multiple decorators to run over
one line.  It also limits the syntax to this one statement.  You would
not want to extend the syntax of a print statement, for example, with
decorators=(separator = ' ', terminator = '\n').

>OTOH, there is the 'def' keyword for people to look up already in this
>case.

Exactly.  All the syntax has to say is "This is an extension of the
def statement."

>>Does it make sense to have a general symbol for modifications of the
>>simple standard syntax?
>
>Not really. What happens when there are two different ways of
>modifying the same syntax? When the first one was defined with no
>awareness that another kind of modification might be needed later?

I guess I'll need an example here.  Seems like the potential for
future incompatibilities is *greater* if the syntax itself has
"special meaning" ( e.g. "decorators" instead of [] ).

>My opinion is that it is better to try to avoid symbols and
>over-generic keywords, and to try to be more explicit about what the
>modification actually is (in this case, decorators). Particularly
>where the syntax may be infrequently used.
>
>Of course short is sweet too. Easy answers are very rare.

I would favor short in the case of decorating def statements.  Even if
we use syntax unique to this statement (e.g. [] ) it seems pretty
clear this is a modification of a normal def.  The symantic burden is
carried by the decorator names, which can be as explicit as you like.
Also, I think in programs where the syntax is useful, it will be used
a lot, so ease of typing and readability is an issue.

We just need to avoid the Perl problem.  We can do that by not using
different symbols for extending different statements.

-- Dave




From noah at noah.org  Fri Mar 19 21:06:11 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 18:06:11 -0800
Subject: Getting both PID and output from a command
References: <3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403191806.151cfa46@posting.google.com>

hugh at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3cc4824d.0403190259.1e06a578 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm calling a command from within a python script and I need to be
> able to both catch the output (stdout and stderr) from it and also
> have the PID (so that I can kill it)
> 
> I can do one or other of these, but I can't find any way to do them
> both at the same time.
> 
> So far, I've got the following options:
> 
> 
> To get the output from the command:
> 
> >>> fdin, fdout, fderr = os.popen3(command)
> 
> 
> Or to get the PID so that I can kill it:
> 
> >>> pid = os.spawnvp(os.P_NOWAIT, command.split()[0], command.split())
> 
> 
> I've tried doing the following to grab stderr (I only need stderr, not
> stdout in this case)
> 
> >>> fderr = os.pipe()
> >>> sys.stderr = fderr
> >>> pid = os.spawnvp(os.P_NOWAIT, command.split()[0], command.split())
> 
> But this doesn't seem to help.... It still just outputs stderr to the
> terminal and when I try to do fderr.read(1) I don't get anything...
> 
> Any help would be very welcome
> 
> 
> Hugh Macdonald

Hi,

The Pexpect library lets you run external commands. 
You get output from a command and you can get the pid.
    http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
You should be able to write code like this:

import pexpect
child = pexpect.spawn (command.split()[0], command.split())
print child.pid
try:
    print child.read()
except pexpect.TIMEOUT:
    child.kill (9)

One problem is that the stdout and stderr are merged into a single stream.
This is a limitation of the Python pty library. Oops...
You will still be able to read the error, but you can't read it
separately from stdout.

Note, I wouldn't trust using a pipe. You will not see any data on the pipe
until the child decides to flush the pipe. There is no way to force the
child to flush it's stdout (your stdin from your point of view).
Pipes are bad for working with child apps that use the stdio libary.
You need a pty for that.

Yours,
Noah


From dlissett0 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 17:46:47 2004
From: dlissett0 at yahoo.com (Duncan Lissett)
Date: 29 Mar 2004 14:46:47 -0800
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
Message-ID: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>

Is there a Python implementation of Martin Richards benchmark Bench?

Be interesting to add it to these
www.lissett.com/ben/exp/bench1.htm


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Thu Mar 18 16:34:42 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:34:42 -0800
Subject: loop scope
In-Reply-To: <ad052e5c.0403181324.31ea8a36@posting.google.com>
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
	<utn350d54pjtrsi1a6sd4ckg82mnq2uf4b@4ax.com>
	<tyf3c8e59i8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c32uv4$22tc7l$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyfd67e4fll.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<ad052e5c.0403181324.31ea8a36@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3d4r8$gho$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> One way to avoid this problem is to have an explicit scope-creating
> construct instead.
> 
> def foo(a):
>    scope outer:
>       a = 3
>       scope inner:
>          a = 4
>          print a            # prints 4
>          print outer.a      # prints 3
>          print foo.a        # prints the function parameter
>       print a               # inner.a is out of scope, so prints 3
>       foo.b = 5             # Creates a new function-scope variable.
>    print b                  # prints 5

Ick.  Thank god Python doesn't seem to be heading in this direction.

  - Josiah


From jsbenson at bensonsystems.com  Fri Mar 12 00:04:57 2004
From: jsbenson at bensonsystems.com (John Benson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:04:57 -0800
Subject: More glossary items: a correction
Message-ID: <083d01c407ef$90e23ae0$210110ac@jsbwxp3>

Actual etymology of "the calculus":

Long before the advent of the differential and integral calculus, there was
the renal calculus, known to moderns as the humble kidney stone. Ever since
Newton and Leibnitz, passing advanced mathematics has been considered as
hard as passing kidney stones, and much beer has been spilled in the attempt
to make both go more easily. As Latin was the lingua franca* of science
until the 1800's, it was natural for the gouty and kidney-stone-plagued
privileged classes attending college to refer to the agony of higher
mathematics first as a renal calculus, and later as "the" calculus.

As for the argument that the ancient Romans did arithmetic with stones,
lining them up to make I's, V's, X's and so on, I find it somewhat contrived
and much less satisfying than my theory: it's mine, and I own it.

* Latin for "language of the hot dogs" or "expert's language"





From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar 26 17:50:11 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:50:11 -0800
Subject: Fork+Timeout
References: <c40uq1$f48$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <donn-EF0325.14501126032004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <c40uq1$f48$1 at news.web.de>, "Oliver Kurz" <olku at web.de> 
wrote:

> do someone new how I can do the following?
> 
> I call a method which reads from a socket. So ... this method could hang
> forever and so my call hangs too ...
> 
> So ... I can not change the behavior of this Method, so I have to change my
> call.
> 
> I though by forking the call to this function and set a timeout to this
> call, so my program won't hang forever.
> 
> But I don't know how I should do this and if this is the correct/best way to
> do this.

You might be able to get something like that to work.  If you
want to give it a try, I would start by learning to use
signal.alarm(), and then see if its SIGALRM signal will
interrupts a socket recv() on your platform.  You won't need
fork, I don't think.

You can probably do better, though, if you can get at the
socket.  My favorite way to approach this kind of situation
is to wait for I/O on all relevant devices with select.select().
When select says your method's socket is readable, you can
call the method, and it will return right away.

You can probably do better, though.  I like select.select(),
which waits for I/O on any of a collection of devices.  That
will tell you when it's safe to call your method.

It will work only if 1) you have access to the socket object,
2) the method doesn't use fileobject I/O on the socket (because
its buffering confuses the issue), and 3) the other inputs to
your program work with select.  (Oh, and if you're on UNIX.)
If it's an X11 graphical application, you'll want to use the
external I/O dispatching mechanism provided by your X toolkit
instead.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From cbearden at hal-pc.org  Wed Mar  3 18:28:33 2004
From: cbearden at hal-pc.org (Chuck Bearden)
Date: 03 Mar 2004 23:28:33 GMT
Subject: Unicode & mx.ODBC module
Message-ID: <40466a21$0$7052$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>

I'm having a tough time understanding how to manage Unicode when loading
data into an MS SQL server.  I'm still pretty new to Unicode, but I
think I have a grasp of the basic concepts.  I'm running ActivePython
2.3.2 Build 230 on Windows XP.  I have the Egenix mx.ODBC package
version 2.0.1 (thanks, Marc-Andre).

I have a script that is loading the contents of selected HTML files into
a database, along with information identifying the file.  Here is a
sample script:

-------------------------begin snippet-------------------------
import sys
import mx.ODBC.Windows

#-- initialize the db connection
dbname = 'theDb'
uname = 'theUser'
password = 'thePassword'
dsn = "DSN=%s;UID=%s;PWD=%s" % (dbname, uname, password)
con = mx.ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect(dsn)

#-- handle UTF-8 encoded Unicode; this worked when loading XML files
con.encoding = 'utf-8'
con.stringformat = mx.ODBC.Windows.UNICODE_STRINGFORMAT

cur = con.cursor()

#-- get the contents of our file (crudely: filename is 2nd arg)
html_f = open(sys.argv[1], 'r')
htmldata = html_f.read()
html_f.close()

#-- make statement string and insert values tuple, and execute
stmnt = """
  INSERT INTO pmLinkHTML
  (PMID, Ord, HTML, HTMLlen)
  VALUES
  (?, ?, ?, ?)
"""
val_t = (549, 0, htmldata, len(htmldata))
cur.execute(stmnt, val_t)

cur.close()
con.close()
--------------------------end snippet--------------------------

For my pains I am rewarded with:

  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "./unitest.py", line 27, in ?
      cur.execute(stmnt, val_t)
  UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xbe in position 
  45662: unexpected code byte

Byte 45662 of the HTML file is indeed "\xBE".  I don't think that should
be a problem.

What am I doing wrong?  I have spent a fair bit of time googling the 
ng in various ways, and consulting Python in a Nutshell and the online 
standard library docs at python.org.  It may be something quite 
obvious to a better-informed coder, but I am prepared to learn.

Many thanks in advance.
Chuck Bearden
 



From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 12 11:19:53 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:19:53 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
In-Reply-To: <4051936c$0$2136$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>
	<405185f5$0$16368$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<du77jxqbd8f.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<4051936c$0$2136$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c2so4p$9uk$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I take it her name isn't Josiah Jr?

*laugh* god I hope not.  I would have had to father her by the time I 
was 10.

That would be a seriously funny surprise to my wife and parents, "um 
guys, I just found out that back when I was 10, I gave a girl my cooties."

In all seriousness though, I think that kids should learn some Assembly, 
if only because it gets to be fun to reorganize cycle by cycle 
execution.  Maybe not at 13, but at least 2nd year of undergraduate CS 
education.

  - Josiah


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Mar 19 02:27:20 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:27:20 +0100
Subject: cgi lib question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.130.1079621506.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.130.1079621506.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405AA0D8.3070302@mxm.dk>

Gandalf wrote:

> 
>  Hi All!
> 
> I'm using IIS with Python (as an ActiveScript language). I would like to 
> upload files with multipart/form-data.
> Here is my code:

You can use this module, which make it easy:

http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/iisUtils

regards Max M


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Mar 27 10:56:57 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:56:57 -0700
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mn8b605pa1s3hjjp7edqrbvlphc8sligai@4ax.com>

On 26 Mar 2004 20:49:00 -0800, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele
Simionato) wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e at 4ax.com>...
>> What I found most interesting about this language is that it *doesn't
>> use classes* !!  All objects are derived directly from other objects,
>> some of which are "prototypes", that is, objects which were designed
>> to be just templates to produce other objects.
>
>Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
>"Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading ;-)

I almost had the same reaction when I first read this, but I did
continue reading, and I'm glad.  I remember making the same mistake
when I first read about Python using whitespace to control structure.
"Oh no, not another FORTRAN.", and I didn't look again for 3 months.

This is a small problem with a simple solution (see my earlier post),
and one that will retain the advantages of tabs.

-- Dave



From curzio.basso at unibas.ch  Thu Mar  4 11:22:16 2004
From: curzio.basso at unibas.ch (Curzio Basso)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:22:16 +0100
Subject: [Numeric] why is Float32 incorrect for ufuncs?
Message-ID: <404757b9$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>

Hello everyone,

I am a beginner with Numerical Python, and there is a thing I do not 
understand in the behaviour of the ufuncs. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Why is the following not working?

 >>> import Numeric
 >>> a=Numeric.ones((2,2),Numeric.Float32)
 >>> a
array([[ 1.,  1.],
        [ 1.,  1.]],'f')
 >>> a/=2
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: return array has incorrect type

If I use Numeric.Float64 as typecode everything works fine, but I do not 
understand why is this needed.

thanks for your help. curzio.



From no at sp.am  Tue Mar 16 13:25:52 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:25:52 -0600
Subject: embedding opengl in wxpython window [Re: Advice needed: large
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1079450494.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <5eb8fb88.0403151925.4f63842b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.27.1079431794.742.python-list@python.org>	<Ib2dnWvFavSMisrdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>
	<mailman.38.1079450494.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Hf6dnQBZ5ZAy28rdRVn-sA@comcast.com>


>> Yeah, it doesn't work on Windows for me either with python 2.3.  It 
>> used to work with python 2.2.  Now it complains about not finding glut.
> 
> 
> If you encounter a bug like this, please submit a bug-report to the 
> project so that it can be fixed.  As a quick check though, you did 
> install the GLUT binary package in your system32 directory, right?  
> PyOpenGL doesn't include the GLUT library itself, only a binding for it.

I never installed OpenGL or GLUT.  OpenGL comes with Windows.  In python 
2.2 everything worked fine.  Does the python 2.3 version not weak link 
glut or something?


From ywantmore at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 16 06:51:39 2004
From: ywantmore at hotmail.com (free free)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0000
Subject: Send commads to printer
Message-ID: <Law9-F1156UnBydBIyB0005008b@hotmail.com>

Hi,

i'am writing a python program and now i need to print some stuff. Before 
print i want to set the text to condensed text and to italic, so i have to 
send some esc commads to printer.

my code

pp=open("/dev/lpr","w")
pp.write(chr(27)+chr(15))
pp.write("This should be condensed\n")
pp.write(chr(27)+chr(52))
pp.write("This should be italic too\n\f")
pp.close()

what i get is text in normal font. I think chr(27) does not send the ESC 
char to printer.
Does anyone knows who to do this ?????????'

Thanks in advance for your help

_________________________________________________________________
Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! 
(Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/




From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:19:47 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:19:47 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<4064C129.1B8C937C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <BSR9c.57832$cx5.56065@fed1read04>

> Not quite the same, as with Prothon it looks like it always relates to
> the self object, whereas in a `with' clause you can make it relates to
> any object you wish.

Just to confuse the issue, I'd like to point out that in Prothon, the
leading dot does always relate to the self object, but the 'with' clause
sets the self object to any object you want at any time.  So both statements
above are true at once.  The concept of changing the self object on the fly
is somewhat bizzare, much like changing the protoype on the fly, which you
can also do.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:4064C129.1B8C937C at alcyone.com...
> Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone wrote:
>
> > Anyway GvR just posted on the python-dev saying this:
> >
> > ==
> > No, I want to reserve the leading dot for attribute assignment to a
> > special object specified by a 'with' statement, e.g.
> >
> > with self:
> >     .foo = [1, 2, 3]
> >     .bar(4, .foo)
> > ==
> >
> > So another feature of this prothon (and a major one) is going to be a
> > python one
> > too.
>
> Not quite the same, as with Prothon it looks like it always relates to
> the self object, whereas in a `with' clause you can make it relates to
> any object you wish.
>
> -- 
>  __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> /  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
> \__/ Drifting from woman-who-tries misconstrued / Shifting to
>     woman-wise -- Lamya




From theller at python.net  Tue Mar 30 14:47:03 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:47:03 +0200
Subject: doctest
Message-ID: <1xnace2w.fsf@python.net>

I've just read the 'Automating testing with doctest' pycon paper, and I'm
exited about the future of doctest.

This simple script reads the ctypes docs written in StructuredText, and
runs and tests the code examples in it:

"""
import doctest

ex = doctest._extract_examples(file("tutorial.stx").read())
doctest._run_examples(ex, {}, 0, "tutorial.stx", 0, 0)
"""

Do I understand correctly that the doctest-pretty printer will
eventually remove the remaining 'warts', ie that doctest complains about
the address part in this? And is it already available somewhere?

>>> class X(object): pass
...
>>> x = X()
>>> x
>>> <__main__.X object at 0x008FA3F0>

Thomas




From news at woody.datatailors.com  Sun Mar 21 14:38:01 2004
From: news at woody.datatailors.com (Peter van Kampen)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:38:01 +0100
Subject: Accessing MS-Access DB from Linux
References: <mailman.211.1079886124.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc5rroo.sqn.news@woody.datatailors.com>

In article <mailman.211.1079886124.742.python-list at python.org>, Gustavo Rahal wrote:
> Hi
> 
> How can I access a MS-Access DB from a linux machine? I am doing a 
> website that will be hosted on  Linux and has to access a Windows 
> machine with the MS-Access DB.

See:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=python+ms+access+linux

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=d9959a0a2901877a

Hth,

PterK
-- 
Peter van Kampen
pterk -- at -- datatailors.com


From mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no  Tue Mar 30 15:12:41 2004
From: mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no (Marius Bernklev)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:12:41 +0200
Subject: Equality and identity
In-Reply-To: <qnk7jx214rz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca> (David M. Cooke's
	message of "Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:03:28 -0500")
References: <3cfvfkmi337.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>
	<qnk7jx214rz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <3cf1xnagkli.fsf@nelja.ifi.uio.no>

cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) writes:

> In your example, 5 and "hei", for various reasons, are compiled to
> reference the exact same object, so 'is' returns True. However, no
> such caching is done with tuples, so (5,2) and (5,2) compile to
> references to different objects (whose contents are equal).

Thanks!


Marius
-- 
        "Who needs crypto WYCWLT?"
                -- William Newman


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Mar 31 12:31:46 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:31:46 GMT
Subject: Looking for example of brilliant python code showing off its
	features
References: <ec6dce8b.0403310644.601a8a7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6lue3.pps.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <ec6dce8b.0403310644.601a8a7b at posting.google.com>, j_mckitrick wrote:
> I'd like pointed to an example of some python code that just really
> shows off what it can do.  I'd rather it focus on language features
> than just library functions, but anything is really OK.
> 
> So does anyone have or know of any amazing python code I can check
> out?

Check the Python Cookbook (google should find it).

Joe


From studyhall at reynolddemarcojr.com  Wed Mar 24 12:40:11 2004
From: studyhall at reynolddemarcojr.com (study_hall)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 09:40:11 -0800
Subject: study_hall
Message-ID: <9141e943.0403240940.3ea62574@posting.google.com>

Computer Science majors

Students helping Students

join study_hall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/study_hall/


From randall at tnr.cc  Wed Mar 17 18:28:41 2004
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:28:41 GMT
Subject: how best to iterate i times ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.100.1079551579.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <Yl16c.298$1r6.18@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.100.1079551579.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ja56c.623$1r6.397@fe2.texas.rr.com>

Thank you all.

You were all very helpful.


Randall

Mike Rovner wrote:
> Randall Smith wrote:
> 
>>for i in range(100000):
>>dothis()
>>
>>I like how clean this syntax is, but this method is very wasteful.
>>The list created by range(100000) consumes a fair amount of memory
>>and it is only used to iterate.
> 
> ...
> 
>>So, question is:  What is the efficient, elegant, pythonic way to
>>iterate with integers?
> 
> 
> Solely for that purpose 'xrange' was created:
> 
> for i in xrange(100000):
>   dothis()
> 
> HTH,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 08:09:46 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 13:09:46 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c43dvk$adq$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
	<E1B7Av0-0001b0-00@ns.purdue.org>
Message-ID: <40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> Where to begin?  I'm seriously surprised that you haven't
> mentioned Tcl, originally created to serve CAD needs, and
> still more prevalent than either Perl or Python in CAD,

I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Tcl
was good at interfacing to, and controlling, CAD tools.
I was more motivated by the need to massage data, though
they probably overlap greatly.  My experience with Tcl is
limited to using Synopsys DC shell to do unconventional
things, like traverse my design hierarchy (originally
in verilog) flattening and stripping out things.  At the
time, the documentation for their dcshell was more
complete than for their Tcl version of the same.  But
it's good to know that Tcl is an option to Perl and Python,
at least for some things.

> from all I know.  Perl is indeed present, too, although,
> in some ways, PythonCAD <URL: http://www.pythoncad.org/ >
> is the most interesting action in this domain.  All three
> languages have enough to recommend them, and are close
> enough in their capabilities, that I feel comfortable ad-
> vising you to choose the one that suits *you* best.  If
> you like thinking in Perl, choose that; you'll miss out
> on a few Python capabilities, but you'll be as productive
> as with any other choice.

Good to know that at a personal level, I can run faster with
whichever one I feel more comfortable with (though I have
yet to explore Python for personal comfort).  I was also
trying to take into consideration the prevalence of Perl
in digital design.

Along this line, I should clarify that by CAD, I don't mean
general purpose computer aided drawing.  I mean software
that helps designers in digital design, much of which is not
graphical.  In fact, my area is more combinatoric
optimization and graph theory-ish than drawing.  Sometimes,
I forget that CAD has a much more general meaning than this.

> Either Perl or Python is going to satisfy you for algorithmic
> experiments much, MUCH more than Matlab or C++.  Make the
> switch, *now*.

I'm surprised to hear that.  Perhaps it's related to the
confusion above (due to the initial generality of my
description).  My thesis research deals with evolutionary
algorithms (EAs) for programming coarse grain reconfigurable
logic platforms.  They tend to be heavy on computation, and
I migrated to C++ for the speedup compared to matlab.
Matlab has been made fast for highly vectorizable
computation, but the restrictive conditions for such speedup
was, too restrictive.  I saw some examples of genetic
algorithms in Perl (or perhaps it was Python), but assumed
(maybe prematurely) that it was much slower than C++.  Other
factors also contributed to this impression, including the
fact that I augment the evolutionary search with local searh
heuristics, giving rise to complicated control flow in the
code.  So I've used C++ for the computation engine code, and
shell/data-massaging scripts for "glue" activity.  Matlab
I'm using because I've got alot of familiarity invested in
its graphing capabilities (to assess data rather than
drawing).  I'm also pretty familiar with its compact
vectorized operations, which helps for data massaging in the
post-processing phase.

> Either Perl or Python can adequately substitute for shell
> in the uses you describe.  They pipeline fine themselves;
> 'fact, I'm working on an essay on how they're *better* at
> pipelining.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of pipelining
Perl commands in a bash command pipeline, along with other
commands.  But it's good to know that they pipeline within
their own scripts (if I understand you correctly), and for
general shell scripting.

> "The translater is freeware, so has limitations ...":  I
> don't understand how to read this.  Has it been your
> experience that commercial CAD packages are perfect, and
> without limitations?

The man page for "verilator" says this: "many limitations and
lack of features compared to a commercial simulator".  One
of the things that prompted me to ask about Perl/Python is
because I'm looking at making many changes throughout a
number of files in order to accommodate the limitations.
Regardless of limitations carried by commercial tools, these
are the ones that I have to deal with.

> I work with VNC a lot, too.  You seem to believe that
> there's a special relation between VNC and Perl; do I
> have that right?  That surprises me.  If anything, I'd
> say Tcl leads in that domain <URL:
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-vnc/ >.

I described my experience with VNC just as an example of the
various situation in which I had to make sense of Perl
scripts.  The vncserver script is written in Perl, at least
for TightVNC, and for older versions of RealVNC I seem to
recall.  That's the extent to which I delved into VNC, since
my area of study (and thus the area where I spend most of my
time) is in "CAD" algorithms, as described above.  I was
driven more by a need to expediently get a certain
kind/level of functionality from VNC rather than the
intention of developing it.

> I generally favor Python over Perl; in the absence of
> more details, I think there's mild evidence that those
> who don't specialize in programming are happier over the
> long term with the readability of the former.  They're
> very close, though.  The one most certain advantage
> Python boasts is a dimension that I'd think important
> to you, although you haven't mentioned it:  Python's
> interfaces to C++ are MUCH easier to manage than Perl's.
> Perl6 will change this.  For now, though, it's FAR
> easier to practice "dual-level programming" with Python
> and C++.  If you have a large existing library of C++
> work, I think that tips the balance toward Python.
> Understand, SWIG and other alternatives make Perl-to-C++
> links possible; with Python's facilities, though,
> including Pyrex, they're *fun*.

That's good news, from my standpoint.  I don't know what
level of programming qualifies a person to be "specializing
in programming", thus leading to more satisfaction with
Python.  I've tried to read my own C++ code after half a
year, and have gained a new appreciation for the importance
of readability.  So I'm still fine-tuning my idea of
adequate commenting.  Since I'm working on my thesis rather
than commercial code, I don't have large amounts of generic
C++ library code.  Just a big-ish heap of routines/functions
for the problem that I'm investigating, as the algorithms
that I choose to try morph.

My impression is that you think Python would be more
appropriate for my situation.  Just wondering if you can
comment on the merit of having lots of Perl code around.  It
seems to be prevelant in a digital design tool environment.
It may not matter all that much to me right now, but it
would be nice to be on the same wavelength as others if I
find myself in a team situation.  As I mentioned, there have
already been situations where a nodding familiarity with
Perl has helped in making use of other people's tools.

> There's more to say; I'll be back later.

Thanks for your comments, and looking forward to hear any
further comments.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 10 08:04:22 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:04:22 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<104q64b2uf3nl0b@news.supernews.com>
	<c2mrrq$1k7$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <104u4ktn5hoc9db@news.supernews.com>


"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:c2mrrq$1k7$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <104q64b2uf3nl0b at news.supernews.com>,
> John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> >
> >I think this is a serious conceptual issue, and I'd prefer to not
> >support upwards references at all.  That doesn't mean they should be
> >prohibited, but if someone wants to dig a pit for himself with circular
> >coupling across module hierarchies, then he should be required to
> >wield the shovel himself. It is not, after all, that difficult to
> >sort through sys.modules to figure out where you are in the import
> >hierarchy.
>
> While that makes some sense, what about "uncle" references within the
> current package?

I'm not sure what you mean by "Uncle." The term usually
means "parent's brother" or "some son of your grandparents
other than your father" so I'd assume it would go up one
directory and then sideways, which would require going up
another directory.

If you are refering to another module in the same directory
that this one came from, then I'd code that as:

import *.foo

However, possibly you meant "cousin?" I can see a
use case for that as a packaging convenience. To make
this concrete, let's assume we have a package named
"A" with subpackages named "B" and "C". If B
contains module "B1", then we might want to be
able to refer to module C1 in package C from module
B1 in package B as if it was originally on the pythonpath.

If B and C are both on the pythonpath, then you need
to say:

import C.C1

However, if they aren't, then you would have to say
something like:

import ^.C.C1

>
> >That leaves references to the current package.  I'm going to suggest an
> >"*" as an indicator for "this package." The reason for an asterisk is
> >my background in mainframe assembler: it means "here" in that language,
> >so I'm obviously not particularly attached to it. It's also already in
> >use in the "from foo import *" syntax.
> >
> >A reference beginning in the current directory is thus:
> >
> >import *.spam.eggs
>
> That's functionally equivalent to the suggested
>
> import .spam.eggs

Certainly. An * is easier to see on the screen.
I believe that was one of the issues with the single
dot notation.

John Roth


> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "Do not taunt happy fun for loops. Do not change lists you are looping
over."
> --Remco Gerlich, comp.lang.python




From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar  1 15:31:34 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:31:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: makeExe.py: An explanation for the uninitiated
Message-ID: <20040301203134.94546.qmail@web8307.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hey,

For the uninitiated: an explanation of makeExe.py
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/266471),
in the form of an article, ?Create Python Executables
Automatically?, is available at DevX:
http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/20247

-Premshree Pillai
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

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From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 22:08:31 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:08:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [python-chinese] Linux&#19978; # -*- coding: cp936 -*- &#20986;
	&#38169; 
In-Reply-To: <000001c4064a$c5e7dcf0$d9824094@localnet>
Message-ID: <20040310030831.81293.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you! John.

Yes, gbk encoding works on the Win2K system, just as
cp936 does.

But if I run the same code on the Mandrake, the system
says that gbk is an unknown encoding. The same happens
to cp936.

I did a 'locate cjk' on the Mandrake system and get:

[antony at ocho antony]$ locate cjk
/usr/share/doc/bind-9.2.3/draft/draft-ietf-idn-cjk-01.txt
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/all_ac1.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/all_ag1.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/all_aj1.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/all_aj2.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/all_ak1.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/gscjk_ac.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/gscjk_ag.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/gscjk_aj.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/gscjk_ak.ps
/usr/share/ghostscript/7.07/examples/cjk/iso2022.ps
/usr/share/texmf/doc/help/Catalogue/entries/cjk-fonts.html
/usr/share/texmf/doc/help/Catalogue/entries/cjk.html
/usr/share/i18n/locales/translit_cjk_variants
/usr/share/i18n/locales/translit_cjk_compat
/usr/lib/cups/filter/cjktexttops
/usr/X11R6/bin/rxvt.cjk



--- John Li <johnli at ahlt.net> wrote:
> 1) I converted your email--it looks like
> it had an ascii encoding, not a gb encoding.
> 
> 2) On your system, does locale.getdefaultlocale()[1]
> return ISO8859-1 or cp936, after 
> '# -*- coding: cp936 -*-'?
> You can simply use
unicode('&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;','gbk')
> (cp936 is more of a Microsoft name; 'gbk' is
> more common elsewhere)
> 
> 3) You have to install CJKCodecs from 
> http://cjkpython.i18n.org/ before the unicode()
> and encode() functions work with gbk/cp936.
> 
> ---------------------------------
> 
>
&#25105;&#22312;&#25105;&#30340;Win2K&#19978;&#36816;&#34892;&#22914;&#19979;&#30340;&#20195;&#30721;&#27809;&#26377;&#38382;&#39064;&#12290;
> 
> # -*- coding: cp936 -*-
> import locale
> encoding = locale.getdefaultlocale()[1]
> s1 =
>
unicode('&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;',
> encoding)
> s2 =
>
'&#20013;&#21326;&#20154;&#27665;&#20849;&#21644;&#22269;'
> print s1.encode(encoding), s2
> print len(s1), len(s2) # &#36755;&#20986;&#65306;7
14
> 
>
&#20195;&#30721;&#26159;&#20174;&#27004;&#19978;&#26576;&#20301;&#20161;&#20804;&#25552;&#20379;&#30340;&#38142;&#25509;&#19978;&#24471;&#21040;&#30340;&#12290;
> 
>
&#20294;&#26159;&#65292;&#25105;&#22914;&#26524;&#22312;&#23454;&#39564;&#23460;&#30340;Mandrake
>
linux&#19978;&#36816;&#34892;&#36825;&#19968;&#27573;&#31243;&#24207;&#65292;&#23601;&#24471;&#21040;&#22914;&#19979;&#30340;&#38169;&#35823;&#65306;
> 
> SyntaxError: 'unknown encoding: cp936'
> 
>
&#26159;&#19981;&#26159;&#22240;&#20026;&#36825;&#20010;mandrake&#19978;&#27809;&#26377;&#20013;&#25991;&#31995;&#32479;&#65311;
>
&#25105;&#19981;&#26159;&#36229;&#32423;&#31649;&#29702;&#21592;&#65292;&#25105;&#35201;&#35753;&#36229;&#32423;&#29992;&#25143;&#23433;&#35013;&#20160;&#20040;&#19996;&#35199;&#21602;&#65311;
> 
>
Mandrake&#19978;&#30340;locale&#22914;&#19979;&#65306;
> 
> >>> locale.getdefaultlocale()
> ['en_US', 'ISO8859-1']
> > _______________________________________________
> python-chinese list
> python-chinese at lists.python.cn
> http://python.cn/mailman/listinfo/python-chinese
> 


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
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From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 20:08:19 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:08:19 -0800
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
	<c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <c3g5nr$mcp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> But I dont know, I wont say that this has to be fixed in any way outside 
> of the programmer's code.

I've never seen python modules named like: valid_name.1.py

Considering that you have shown that it does not work, and that there is 
documentation stating that it is not /meant/ to work, then the error is 
in the way /you/ name /your/ modules, not the way Python handles 
/incorrectly/ named modules.

  - Josiah


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar 11 16:26:18 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:26:18 -0500
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<tPQ3c.37431$6y1.1205127@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<104vtblamboehab@corp.supernews.com>
	<2f9050pq22u53o7aqo9i8ebqj11vo9kilg@4ax.com>
	<1050odofl644aac@corp.supernews.com> <rp76i1-un5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<mailman.273.1079016210.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<mcl6i1-i24.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <qnk3c8fjcsl.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Kyler Laird <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote:
> Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> writes:
>>[Cameron]
>>> Whenever you feel like a lambda, define a named function; 
>>[Kyler]
>>> How do you cleanly do that?
>>> 	foo = range(-10, 10)
>>> 	my_op = lambda x: float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
>>> 	bar = map(my_op, foo)
>
>>foo = range(-10, 10)
>>def my_op(x):
>>    return float(x) / max(map(abs, foo))
>>bar = map(my_op, foo)
>
>>...did I misunderstand?
>
> Well, your solution depends on a global variable.  That's going to
> get *really* ugly if we move beyond the trivial example given here.
> There are other problems but they're apparently not obvious with 
> that example.

The lambda depends on a global variable too (or at least, a variable
up one scope).

> How 'bout some non-working code to shine some more light on it?  (If
> pressed, I should be able to come up with similar code that works!)
>
> 	def make_translation_function(GCPs, type, invert=False):
> 		if type == 'LSF' and len(GCPs) < 12:
> 			# Do lots of time-consuming magic to calculate A, B, ...
> 			return(
> 				lambda x, y: (
> 					x * A + y * B +
> 					x * y * C +
> 					...,
> 					x * G + y * H +
> 					x * y * I +
> 					...
> 				)
> 			)
> 		elif ... # Repeat lots of times for variations.
>
> 	map_im = foo.open('map.tif')
> 	map_translation = make_translation_function(map_im.get_GCPs, type='LSF')
>
> 	path_im = foo.open('path.tif')
> 	path_translation_i = make_translation_function(path_im.get_GCPs, type='LSF', invert=True)
>
> 	# Mark all points on map that are red in path.
> 	for (x, y) in all_red_pixels(path_im):
> 		(lon, lat) = path_translation_i(x, y)
> 		(x, y) = map_translation(lon, lat)
> 		map_im.putpixel((x, y), mark_val)
>
> Now, let's pretend that this is part of a larger program that's doing lots
> of things with, potentially, lots of images, and let's also say that we
> allow user-defined/imported extensions to make_translation_function().
> How are you going to make a *clean* solution using named functions?

Umm, easily? You don't have to refer to functions by their original
name; they are first-class objects.

def make_translation_function(GCPs, type, invert=False):
    if type == 'LSF' and len(GCPs) < 12:
        # Do lots of time-consuming magic to calculate A, B, ...
        def LSF_function(x, y):
            xy = x*y
            lon = x*A + y*B + xy*C + ...
            lat = x*G + y*H + xy*I + ...
            return (lon, lat)
        return LSF_function
    elif ... # Repeat lots of times for variations.

I've even optimized by premultiplying x and y, which couldn't do in
the lambda, and made the code clearer by breaking up the calculation.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar 15 18:09:04 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:09:04 -0600
Subject: Embedded WebDesign with Python
References: <mailman.21.1079267258.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <R82dnVp9KZESqsvdRVn-jw@comcast.com>

Before you spend too much time you should take a look
at www.zope.org.

Larry Bates

"Ivo" <Python at ivonet.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.21.1079267258.745.python-list at python.org...
> Maybee you python junkies can help me.
>
> My Goal:
> A website where the content is fully shaped by <embedded> python in my
html.
>
> At this moment I use Apache 2 in combination with mod_python and Spyce
>
> No I understand that mod_python allows embedded python, but I don't
> understand how. Can someone give me a pointer or a good link to some good
> pointers (which would already be a good pointer ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Ivo.
>
>




From dmq at gain.com  Sun Mar 28 12:14:32 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:14:32 -0700
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:15:34 -0500, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list at python.org...
>> John Roth wrote:
>>
>> > It's certainly true that in a prototype based language all objects
>> > exist: there are no objects that the compiler deals with but does
>> > not put into the resulting program. And it's quite true that it does
>> > open up the floodgates for a lot of messiness.
>>
>> Ummm. This is also true for Python. Python classes exist at runtime.
>>
>> foo = 5
>>
>> class foo: # oops. I've overwritten foo
>> def bar(self):
>> pass
>>
>> print foo
>> print dir(foo)
>> print type(foo)
>>
>>   Paul Prescod
>
>Sure. But misusing classes as instances is quite rare in
>practice, and plugging members into instances is also
>quite rare in practice. Python's highly dynamic nature
>opens it up to a lot of difficulty in principle, but most
>deveopers seem to be quite disciplined in their use of
>dynamism.
>
>The difficulty here is simply that there is no way of
>isolating a base object that is supposed to be the platform
>for other objects from objects that are supposed to be
>updatable with new behavior.
>
>The higher a tower you want to build, the firmer the
>foundation. Conventions help, but if the conventions
>are helped along by the language, that's even better.

In Ruby you can freeze() any object.  But it seems like in this case,
just giving your base object a distinct name, like PrototypePolygon
will remind you not to change its definition later as you create
triangles, rectangles, etc.

I also would have no objection to some syntactic lock, like any object
name ending in an underscore is an immutable object.  We could also do
this the other way around.  Objects, by default are immutable.  That
would take care of most uses.  If you want a mutable object, give it a
name ending in ! (bang).

-- Dave



From leoel at gmx.at  Thu Mar 11 09:41:30 2004
From: leoel at gmx.at (Leopold Schwinger)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:41:30 +0100
Subject: Python database
In-Reply-To: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
References: <4050647e$1@puffinus.its.uu.se>
Message-ID: <40507a0d$1@e-post.inode.at>

none wrote:
> 
> Facts:
> 
> (1) I don't know anything about data bases
> 
> (2) I don't have much time to learn about them (but I do have SOME time)
> 
> (3) I need to store (and retrieve) thousands of pages for a wiki, and 
> need to be able to perform simple searches in the data base (but nothing 
> else)
> 
> (4) I want to have open source free of charge programs
> 
> Can someone recommend a simple, easy-to-program data base? As far as I 
> have understood there is no standard data base in Python. Why is this 
> so? Do people have too different needs?
> 
>      / Any help is much appreciated!
> 

If you want to make a Wiki-Page with full-text-search:
==> http://moin.sourceforge.net/
and: its based on python and Apache

greetings Leo


From LVC3MEDIC at LVTALK.COM  Fri Mar 12 23:21:07 2004
From: LVC3MEDIC at LVTALK.COM (Frank)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 20:21:07 -0800
Subject: usenet is being killed by one specific person. That person is
	(jeff) jbond@nowhere.com
Message-ID: <e4c68bd.0403122021.73300d44@posting.google.com>

usenet  is being killed by one specific person. That person is (jeff)
jbond at nowhere.com



usenet  is being killed by one specific person. That person is warrant
out for Alan P (alan at nowhere.com) AKA (jeff) jbond at nowhere.com
The Day & Night Stalker Is Now (jeff) jbond at nowhere.com AKA 
Alan P (alan at nowhere.com with video and pics email me. 
this info. is on amw, dr.phill and 
Jeff BOND jbond at nowhere.com AKA Alan P (alan at nowhere.com 
Did you know that it's U.S. Postal Inspectors 
who investigate mail thefts? They get high ratings for their work, in
the
last year alone arresting over 6,000 theft suspects. 

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http://tinyurl.com/27ohw


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  9 14:55:37 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:55:37 -0600
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Get PIL (Python Imaging Library) if you don't already have it

http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm/

import Image
pathtogif=r'C:\xxx.gif'   # Replace with your path
im=Image.open(pathtogif)
x,y=im.size
im.close()

-Larry



"biner" <biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca> wrote in message
news:b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7 at posting.google.com...
> Hello all,
>
>   I would like to know if there is a module out there to help me get
> the size of a gif image. The idea is to verify that the size is not
> greater than a certain value before forcing it toward a given
> dimension in a web page.
>
>   Also, is there any way to know which function is used if we use two
> module that define the same function with the same name and arguments.
> E.g. the join function is present in the string module and the os.path
> module with string as input and output. Is there a way to force Python
> to tell me of the possible conflict?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ciao!
> Sebastien Biner.
> biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 31 10:19:13 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 10:19:13 -0500
Subject: wxPython book (was Re: Python Documentation Blows!)
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com> <c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64 at nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>,
francois lepoutre <franck.lepoutre at caramail.com> wrote:
>
>Possibly a smart (and not necessarily big) wxpython book could prove a
>decisive argument for wxpython and python as well specifically for the
>"MS visual *" and delphi user communities.

There's one in the pipeline.  Don't know how much more than that I
should say; I've changed the Subject: line in case the authors are
monitoring this group.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From ark at acm.org  Tue Mar 30 13:17:01 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:17:01 GMT
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xQiac.2375$He5.58858@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0403300510.1971c24 at posting.google.com...

> I may be about to get flamed as some heretic against the ancient
> way..... but if assignment in conditional statements isn't
> possible.... why do we need to use '==' instead of just '=' for if and
> while statements ?

One reason is that you can assign multiple variables at the same time:

    a = b = c = 0

Would you prefer the first = to be assignment and the others to be
comparison?

(it's certainly possible -- PL/I does it that way -- but would you prefer
it?)




From devnull at example.com  Wed Mar 31 21:21:28 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:21:28 +0800
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<c4en2v$uvm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <406b7c51$0$16594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

> import Tkinter as tk
> root = tk.Tk()
> 
> def check(action):
>     print {"1":"inserting", "0": "deleting"}.get(action, "should never
> happen")
>     return True
> checkId = root.register(check)
> 
> entry = tk.Entry(root, validate="key", validatecommand=checkId + " %d")
> entry.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> 
> The above was found by trial and error, so no warranties :-)

Awesome, thank you. I don't understand what's going on though. Can you
explain a bit? I don't understand the mechanism which is expanding the %d.
Is there some magic in the tk.Entry constructor which does it, or is that
root.register() doing something clever?


> You could use check() directly, like
> 
> entry = tk.Entry(root, validate="key", validatecommand=check)
> 
> but then it will be called without parameters.

That's as far as I'd got and I was beginning to think it was impossible to
get the parameters. At least I now know it can be done, even if I don't
understand how!


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 27 11:28:25 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:28:25 +0000
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
	<988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>
	<a3m560hct5ria1cqn27noipmishfpbu8qf@4ax.com>
	<pr766090m2v0i5t1108b92nbtk38u540l8@4ax.com>
	<1fl660532t2rffk3f7klh4g1ei9rnhi3p9@4ax.com>
	<6oj860t65n3lmqp3aurigkl12hb1a6lknm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j69b601d6m5uhjp7jc43fbcsu3jdj62pdb@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:48:17 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

>There may also be some objection to the fact that this use of
>indentation (setting options) is inconsistent with every other use
>(controlling program flow).

I already gave my opinions on that issue elsewhere. First off, the
relative consistency in how Python uses blocks is a side-effect of an
unrelated principle, not a principle in itself - the 'right thing' can
still be to use block structure for other things. Secondly, Python
doesn't just use indented blocks purely to control program flow - it
is also used to define local contexts in the sense of local scopes
(class, def) so why not do the same, but with local options being the
local context?

>This is the best time to do it, while we are learning the
>language. Later, we will forget the problems we had in learning.

Actually, I've been using Python for about 7 years or so, on and off -
slightly longer than I've been using C++, and it's almost certainly my
record holder for the longest period of sustained more-or-less-regular
use (though sadly not for quantity). I first started with Python 1.4
on an iMac, as a result of a desperate search for languages I could
actually run on that thing.

To the extent that I'm still learning Python, I'll probably always
still be learning it ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 24 09:41:01 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:41:01 -0500
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <10637ibo30epo6f@news.supernews.com>


"Joe Mason" <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message
news:slrnc631sn.32m.joe at gate.notcharles.ca...
> In article <1060m0593q1uo0d at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> > I'd support the "Majority Rules" algorithm. See the article in
> > Scientific American (March, 2004 edition) If you run the
>
> There's no free version of the article online, but the authors are given
> as Partha Dasgupta and Eric Maskin, and googling on the latter led me to
> http://www.sss.ias.edu/papers/papereleven.pdf.

Thanks for the reference. A large part of the SA article is
a revised version of this, with the recent French election added
as another example, and with a few relatively minor changes. The
section on why the Concordet Paradox is of relatively minor
concern is new. Since it involves the effects of ideology and passion,
it might be worth looking at from a theoretical standpoint.

> I've only skimmed it, but I'm a little confused by his terms in that
> paper.  He first starts, it seems, by defining "plurality/majority rule"
> as simply allowing everybody to cast a vote for one candidate, and "a
> candidate wins if he or she garners, respectively, a plurality or
> majority of all votes cast" - in other words, the obvious way.  But
> later on he says, "in true majority rule the winner is the candidate who
> beats everyone else in a pairwise comparison", which is Condorcet's
> Method.

> So I'll assume the "Majority Rules" algorithm is yet another dumbed-down
> name for Pairwise Voting aka Condorcet's Method, and say that I like it,
> but there's not much point using it for a yes/no vote.  If you're saying
to
> let people vote on several alternate syntaxes plus "reject outright" -
> perfect.

That's the way I understand it.

If it's a yes/no vote on one syntax, I agree, there's not much point.
My concern was not getting into another PEP 308 mess due to
a poor choice of voting method.

> > Cycles are, of course, a problem with that method; you just
> > have to do something else to break the tie. Almost anything will
> > do if you filter the ballots to just include the issues/candidates
> > involved in the tie.
>
> There's a fair amount of analysis on the best method, actually.  In this
> case, "Guido's choice" is probably a good one.  (Normally it's done by
> counting the relative magnitude of each pairwise win and things like
> that.  I'm not clear on whether the existance of a cycle means everyone
> in the cycle is really a tossup or if it's fuzzier.)

Your comments indicate you're probably much more in touch with
voting method theory than I am! My take on it is that it needs to be
done using availible data - that is, the original votes.

I don't know if the original data on PEP 308 is still availible. It would
be interesting (although it might just be throwing fuel on a fire that
should
be allowed to die down) to reanalyze it (and I don't know if I'm
volunteering
to do it or not!)

John Roth
>
> Joe




From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  9 10:03:50 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:03:50 +0100
Subject: Using Pythonwin to poke at Windows apps?
References: <44254d3d.0403090600.3b14d84c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4qsym59l.fsf@python.net>

Henrik.Weber at sdm.de (Henrik Weber) writes:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm trying to read information about widgets from running instances of
> win32 applications. My current victim is the Explorer on a XP box. I'm
> trying to access the menu bar. On XP this is not a standard menu but a
> toolbar. So far I can retrieve a PyCWnd object with win32ui:
>
>>>> e = win32ui.FindWindow("ExploreWClass", None)
>>>> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(e, None, "WorkerW", None)
>>>> w = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ReBarWindow32", None)
>>>> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, None, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
>>>> t = win32ui.FindWindowEx(w, t, "ToolbarWindow32", None)
>>>> hex(t.GetSafeHwnd())
> '0x602d8'
>>>> print t
> object 'PyCWnd' - assoc is 01275A88, vi=<None>, notify=0,ch/u=0/0,
> mh=0, kh=0
>
> I know that t now refers to a ToolbarWindow32 widget but seemingly
> win32ui doesn't. Is there a way to get a PyCToolbar object from this?

No idea.

> Or do I have to continue by sending messages? I tried sending a
> TB_GETBUTTON message with win32gui.SendMessage, using a Python array
> to reserve some memory for the TBBUTTON structure, but so far I have
> only succeeded in crashing the Explorer. What would be the right way
> to send a message that needs some memory to put the results into?

If you go this way, ctypes is what you need.  And Simon Bruning has
written a series of articles which also might be helpful:

http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000652.html

Thomas




From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Fri Mar 26 21:24:29 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 02:24:29 GMT
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<p1u860l6q98sc6ppihje55ptna298ub7si@4ax.com>
	<1068up4kn49778@news.supernews.com> <ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018@edtnps84>
	<106959g6i63cv77@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc69peu.j80.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-03-26, John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> "D Martin" <dgmartin98.REMOVEME at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ax%8c.9470$wg1.4018 at edtnps84...

>> 3 solutions:

>> 1. Use spaces instead of tabs.  Hit the space bar yourself, or an editor
>> that replaces tabs with spaces.
>> 2. Include as a .py or text file instead of inline.
>> 3. Get a different email program.

> All of these fail for one simple reason. Let's hit
> the chorus, guys:

> "We're right, everybody else needs to change..."

    Hey, that's the Chorus from the Microsoft song!  You're the one using
Lookout!  You're the one complaining about the shortfalls in your tools
because Microsoft sings that song.  *YOU* deal with it.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 17:35:24 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:35:24 +0200
Subject: Orders of magnitude
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F81@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <4068A4AC.5040501@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> I wrote:
> 
> I'm dedup'ing a 10-million-record dataset, trying different approaches
> for building indexes. The in-memory dicts are clearly faster, but I get
> Memory Errors (Win2k, 512 MB RAM, 4 G virtual). Any recommendations on
> other ways to build a large index without slowing down by a factor of
> 25?
> 
> ...and got replies:

And here my last one, hopefully:

I changed the program to use just one file, and 10 million of
about 300 bytes, each.
There was one duplicate. The program identified it.
The whole process took about six minutes, using a temp file
with pickled bins of 300 MB, only.
It will work for you, regardless of record size.

:-))

have fun -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/

-------------- next part --------------
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From ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Mar  1 14:04:36 2004
From: ptmcg at users.sourceforge.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:04:36 GMT
Subject: Regular Expressions in Python
References: <c7c33240.0403010618.12391181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8PL0c.19420$lS1.16356@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"fossil_blue" <noelrivera at excite.com> wrote in message
news:c7c33240.0403010618.12391181 at posting.google.com...
> Dear Gurus,
>
>   I am trying to find out how to write an effective regular expression
> in python for the following scenario:
>
>    "any number of leading spaces at the beginning of a line" "follow
> by a string" "there maybe a string that starts with *"
>
> for example:
>
>   END  *This is a comment
>
> but I don't want to match this:
>
>    END  e * This is a line with an error (e)
>
> thanks,
> Noel

Here's an example with sample code using both re's and pyparsing.  Note that
the single .ignore() call takes care of ignoring comments on all contained
grammar constructs, and non-significant whitespace is implicitly ignored (so
no need to litter your matching expressions with lots of opt_spaces-type
content).

-- Paul
========================
from pyparsing import Word, alphas, alphanums, restOfLine, LineEnd,
ParseException

testdata = """
END  *This is a comment
  END*This is a comment (but the next line has no comment)
  END
   END  e * This is a line with an error (e)"""
enquote = lambda st : ( '"%s"' % st )

print "test with pyparsing"
grammar = Word( alphas, alphanums ).setName("keyword") + LineEnd()
comment = "*" + restOfLine
grammar.ignore( comment )

for test in testdata.split("\n"):
    try:
        print enquote(test),"\n->",
        print grammar.parseString( test )
    except ParseException, pe:
        print pe

print

import re
print "test with re"
opt_spaces  = " *"
#identifier  = "[A-Za-z_][A-Za-z0-9_]+"  - I'm guessing this regexp should
have ()'s for accessing content as a group
identifier  = "([A-Za-z_][A-Za-z0-9_]+)"
comment     = "\*.*"
opt_comment = "(%s)?" % comment

pat = re.compile(opt_spaces + identifier + opt_spaces + opt_comment + "$")

for test in testdata.split("\n"):
    print enquote(test),"\n->",
    if pat.match(test):
        print pat.match(test).groups()
    else:
        print "Bad text"

========================
Gives this output:

test with pyparsing
""
-> Expected keyword (0), (1,1)
"END  *This is a comment"
-> ['END']
"  END*This is a comment (but the next line has no comment)"
-> ['END']
"  END"
-> ['END']
"   END  e * This is a line with an error (e)"
-> Expected end of line (8), (1,9)

test with re
""
-> Bad text
"END  *This is a comment"
-> ('END', '*This is a comment')
"  END*This is a comment (but the next line has no comment)"
-> ('END', '*This is a comment (but the next line has no comment)')
"  END"
-> ('END', None)
"   END  e * This is a line with an error (e)"
-> Bad text




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Mar 30 14:28:56 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:28:56 -0800
Subject: ANN: exportLiteral extension to generateDS.py
Message-ID: <c4chpp$2h06mj$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>


I've implemented an extension to generateDS.py.

generateDS.py generates Python classes that represent the elements
in an XML document, given an Xschema definition of the XML
document type.

The new extension will export a Python literal representation of
the XML document.


What It Does
============

When generateDS.py generates the Python source code for your
classes, this new feature also generates an "exportLiteral" method
in each class. If you call this method on the root (top-most)
object, it will write out a literal representation of your class
instances as Python code.

generateDS.py also generates a function at top level
(parseLiteral) that parses an XML document and calls the
"exportLiteral" method on the root object to write the data
structure (instances of your generated classes) as a Python module
that you can import to (re-)create instances of the classes that
represent your XML document.


Why You Might Care
==================

This feature means that the classes that you generate from an XML
schema support the interchangeability of XML and Python literals.
This means that, given classes generated by generateDS.py for your
XML document type, you can perform the following transformations:

- Translate an XML document into a Python module containing a
  literal definition of the contents of the XML document.

- Translate the literal definition of a Python data structure into
  an XML instance document.

This capability enables you to:

- Work with an XML (text) document, then exchange it for a Python
  text representation of the content of that document.

- Work with a Python literal text representation of your XML
  document, then exchange that for an XML document that represents
  the same content.

- "Freeze" your XML document as a Python module that you can
  import. The module can be edited with your text editor, so
  perhaps it would be better to say that it is frozen, but not too
  hard. The classes that you generate with generateDS.py can be
  used to:

  1. Read in an XML document.

  2. (Optionally) modify the Python instances that represent that
     XML document.

  3. Write the instances out as a Python module that you can later
     import.


Where to Find It
================

You can find generateDS.py at:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/generateDS.html.


Dave

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From news at grauer-online.de  Mon Mar  1 06:15:04 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 12:15:04 +0100
Subject: KinterBasDB problems  in Linux
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1078128172.22701.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.8.1078128172.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c1v5va$72k$1@online.de>

fowlertrainer at anonym.hu wrote:

> Hello !
> 
> I have a problem.
> I create my projects in Windows, and I write a database synchronizing
> utility for copy a gdb changes to another gdb. Some of these products
> is need to run in linux.
> 
> I'm very tired, because I download (apt-get install
> python2.3-kinterbasedb) the module, what working good in Windows, but
> in linux I get this message when I try to start my script:
> 
> bha:/kepes# ./syncmdb2teldb.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./syncmdb2teldb.py", line 2, in ?
>     import kinterbasdb
>   File "/home/fixshare/kepes/kinterbasdb/__init__.py", line 41, in ?
>     import _kinterbasdb as _k
> ImportError: No module named _kinterbasdb
> bha:/kepes#
> 
> 
> The test file is:
> File: syncmdb2teldb.py  Col 0              321 bytes                        100%
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import kinterbasdb
> 
> import sys
> # Base datas
> 
> srcdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/teldata.gdb',us
> er='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
> desdb=kinterbasdb.connect(dsn='192.168.1.17:/mpanni/bha/database/mpanni.gdb',use
> r='sysdba',password='m',charset="win1250")
> print "ok"
> 
> 1Help   2UnWrap 3Quit   4Hex    5Line   6RxSrch 7Search 8Raw    9Unform 10Quit
> 
> In the package dir:
> 
> bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb# ls -l
> total 152
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        29691 Jul 19  2002 __init__.py
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyc
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        32036 Feb 27 17:44 __init__.pyo
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        56072 Sep 28 16:32 _kinterbasdb.so
> bha:/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/kinterbasdb#
> 
> 
> What I do wrong, or what is it ????
> (The Zope with Kinterbasdb is working good in this linux, so no
> connection problem...)
> 
> thanx for every help !
> 

I don't have any proplems with cross-platform issues.
Working on Win2000 + suse linux 8.2, 9.0 and FB 1.5,
kinterbasdb from http://sourceforge.net/projects/kinterbasdb/
Try this version!

Uwe


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Mar 13 09:59:42 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:59:42 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <67efcd4ccaf87ddf3c640aad5517017a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <20040313145942.9464.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Dang Griffith <google0 at lazytwinacres.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:07:50 +0000 (GMT), Premshree
> Pillai
> <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> 
> > --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> >Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed,
> and
> >so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use strict
> >vars" pragma to force variable declaration. Is
> there
> >something like it in Python?
> 
> No, but you can use pychecker to get similar
> results.
> 
> >Don't you think forced variable declaration is an
> >important requirement in a language?
> 
> Not really.  Forced variable initialization is
> what's important.
> Unlike C, et al, and Perl, variables don't have a
> default 
> initial value.  If you try reference a variable that
> hasn't been
> initialized ("bound to a value", in python lingo),
> python raises a
> NameError exception.
> 
>     --dang
> p.s.
> I know technically Perl initializes to 'undef', but
> it's magically
> treated as 0 or an empty string, depending on
> context, so the
> effect is much the same.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

Not forcing variable initialization does have its
problems. Here's what I mean: http://www.livejournal.com/users/premshree/10624.html?thread=53376#t53376

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From eric at zomething.com  Sat Mar 13 21:29:04 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:29:04 -0800
Subject: Python & the job market
Message-ID: <20040313182904.1198338832.eric@zomething.com>

> I have experience about 4 years of Java experience (designed and developed
> numerous projects as a consultant in the past), 10+ years of Oracle
> experience, about 5 years of Perl experience so programming is not a problem
> . I guess my main point that I should have touch upon was learning Python
> and influencing management to go the Python route in a company where Java is
> the standard.


Question: in terms of these kind of objectives, how important are a world class IDE and world class libraries?


Python: Batteries are included, but do we need 110/220v power source as part of the package for the "next phase"?  Or, from perhaps a Guido perspective, is that going beyond what Python was intended for?


Eric Pederson
"Anything is possible" - LB



From project5 at redrival.net  Sat Mar 13 06:11:23 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:11:23 +0100
Subject: Python Script for Running a Python Program over Different Files
	in the Directory
References: <mailman.351.1079166133.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1a5q7p54c0ib7.1q4js3buj4tb6$.dlg@40tude.net>

Shalen chhabra wrote on Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:22:09 +0000:

> Can anyone give me a snippet for running a python program over all the files 
> in the directory.

You can use os.listdir() to get all files in a given path as a list. Then
you can loop over that list and do whatever you like to each item in that
list.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 08:24:03 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:24:03 +0200
Subject: [Windows] Pygtk2 incompatible with Stackless
In-Reply-To: <5b3fd64f.0403290502.3260fbc7@posting.google.com>
References: <5b3fd64f.0403290502.3260fbc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40682373.7020901@stackless.com>

Lorenzo Gatti wrote:

> Last weekend I tried to install Pygtk2 on Windows. I succeeded
> (maybe), but I discovered a likely bug.
> I have Windows 2000, Python 2.3.3 (with ActivePython installed after
> the normal version) and a recent Stackless 3.0 python23.dll.
> I think I've chosen correct and matching versions of GTK2 (Dropline
> distribution 2.2.4-2) and Pygtk2 (pygtk 2.2.0-1.win32-py2.3.exe).
> I installed both in the default locations (pygtk in site-packages,
> GTK2 in c:\programmi\file comuni\gtk).
> Then I added c:\programmi\file comuni\gtk\lib to the PATH to load GTK2
> libraries, I added %PATH% to the PYTHONPATH environment variable
> (previously empty) to load the GTK libraries from Python too, and with
> advice from Microsoft Dependency Walker I rearranged PATH because a
> mismatched iconv.dll from ActiveTcl was loaded instead of the GTK2
> one.
> I had an unrelated installation problem: the pygtk initialization code
> looks for directory names like "gtk-2.0" and there is one such
> directory in the GTK installation. This directory is assumed to be the
> pygtk installation subdirectory for GTK 2.0. Instead of hacking pygtk
> I copied the files there.
> 
> After all this entertainment I could import the whole family of
> modules and call pygtk.require("2.0") without errors, but I had a
> surprise:
> 
> C:\>python
> Python 2.3.3 Stackless 3.0 040324 (#51, Mar 24 2004, 18:07:02) [MSC
> v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import gtk
>>>>gtk.Window()
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> RuntimeError: more keyword list entries than argument specifiers
> 
> 
> This cryptic message comes from getargs.c and appears to be an
> incorrect specification of some function in Pygtk, but it isn't.
> Reverting to the normal python23.dll the result appears correct:
> 
> C:\>python
> Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import gtk
>>>>gtk.Window()
> 
> 
> (:540): Gtk-WARNING **: Impossibile trovare il gestore dei temi in
> module_path: "wimp",
> <gtk.Window object (GtkWindow) at 0x7ef030>
> 
> 
> The only configuration difference between the two transcripts is a
> replaced c:\winnt\system32\python23.dll.
> 
> Like most users, I have little need to use Stackless Python and Pygtk
> at the same time, but this issue can be worth investigating for the
> Stackless and/or Pygtk2 developers.

Thanks for pointing us to that problem. It is of course relevant
since Stackless tries to be a complete replacement for Python.
In a slightly too rigorous implementation of thread pickling,
I renamed some builtin types slightly, which caused other
problems, already. These changes will be gradually undone.
I very much hope that the Pygk2 problem belongs to this simple
class.

thanks - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From egusenet at verizon.net  Wed Mar 24 15:48:02 2004
From: egusenet at verizon.net (Eric)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:48:02 -0500
Subject: [Slightly OT] Re: Voting
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<95aa1afa.0403230250.4c9da7a2@posting.google.com>
	<1060m0593q1uo0d@news.supernews.com>
	<slrnc631sn.32m.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <1gb5t0f.d82mu51pbs2vmN%egusenet@verizon.net>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <1060m0593q1uo0d at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> > I'd support the "Majority Rules" algorithm. See the article in
> > Scientific American (March, 2004 edition) If you run the
> 
> There's no free version of the article online, but the authors are given
> as Partha Dasgupta and Eric Maskin, and googling on the latter led me to
> http://www.sss.ias.edu/papers/papereleven.pdf.
> 
> So I'll assume the "Majority Rules" algorithm is yet another dumbed-down
> name for Pairwise Voting aka Condorcet's Method, and say that I like it,
> but there's not much point using it for a yes/no vote.  If you're saying to
> let people vote on several alternate syntaxes plus "reject outright" -
> perfect.

Yes, what they are decribing is a Condorcet Method, which they term
'True Majority Rule' and then provide to give a rather strong
justification for such a method.

More information about Condorcet methods can be found at:

  http://electionmethods.org/
  http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~seppley/
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method
 




From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Mon Mar  8 11:07:34 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:07:34 +0100
Subject: curses bkgd problem
Message-ID: <404C9A46.4070206@geochemsource.com>


  Hi Python Gurus!

I read the documentation on the python curses module and I started a new 
application.
So far I did this:

stdscr = curses.initscr() # Get standard screen
curses.start_color()      # Uses colors
stdscr.bkgd(' ',curses.COLOR_BLUE ) # Set background of the main window
curses.noecho()           # Do not echo input
curses.cbreak()           # CBreak mode: process keys immediately (no ENTER)
stdscr.keypad(1)          # keypad mode: parse control sequences
stdscr.redrawwin()
stdscr.refresh()

However, it is displaying $ characters in black instead of displaying a 
blue background full of spaces.
This must be a problem with my bkgd call since this works fine:

curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_RED, curses.COLOR_WHITE)
stdscr.addstr(0, 0, curses.longname(), curses.color_pair(1) )
stdscr.refresh()

(writes "X11$terminal$emulator" in the top left corner in red and white).
Please help me out with a few lines of code.

Thanks in advance.

   G





From ExchangeAV at kaydara.com  Wed Mar 24 09:26:44 2004
From: ExchangeAV at kaydara.com (ExchangeAV at kaydara.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:26:44 -0500
Subject: Symantec AVF detected a repairable/quarantined virus in a message
	you sent
Message-ID: <1fcb01c411ac$087af720$030200c0@kaydara.com>

Subject of the message: Mail Delivery (failure webmaster at kaydara.com)
Recipient of the message: Renel Plouffe






From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar  3 00:11:05 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 2 Mar 2004 21:11:05 -0800
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30260531.0403022111.1a2928b7@posting.google.com>

I'd like to know too - I had a play with psychog but couldn't get it
to connect, and couldn't find any documentation for it.

I don't have a huge amount of PostgreSQL knowledge (more of a MySQL
person myself) so I could have it setup wrong, but I couldn't figure
anything out as the error message was useless (something about IDENT
user).


From jayoconnor at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 22 20:12:50 2004
From: jayoconnor at earthlink.net (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:12:50 GMT
Subject: Python for large projects
In-Reply-To: <7xr7vkbdtx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.229.1079954066.742.python-list@python.org>
	<7xisgxt51r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<105uk4987h7tm77@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xad28313c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wsL7c.34390$%06.30789@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<7xr7vkbdtx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <maM7c.34443$%06.2523@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Jay O'Connor <jayoconnor at earthlink.net> writes:
> 
>>>1) Optimizing C/C++ compiler, like GCC
>>>2) Full featured web browser, like MSIE or Mozilla
>>>3) Full featured office suite, like MS Office or Open Office or KDE
>>>4) Avionics for the space shuttle
>>>5) Internals of a large telephone/data switch
>>>6) Tax processing software for the IRS
>>>7) Operating system kernel (Linux: the next generation)
>>>8) Accounting software for a big bank
>>>9) Full featured database like Oracle or Postgres
>>>10) ... well you get the idea.
>>>Which, if any, would you write in Python?
>>
>>6 and 8, maybe 3...and 10 of course
> 
> 
> I think 6 and 8 would depend on decimal arithmetic; some modules for
> that have been proposed but nothing is released yet, afaik.

Depends on what you mean.  If you're talking desktop line-of-business software 
for the IRS, a bank, or any business then there's probably not going to be a lot 
of heavy math.  If you're talking some sort of automatic transaction processing 
then maybe different, but I can't see the math really being that hoary.  I've 
seen financial transaction software written in TCL which was running a *lot* 
slower than Python.  Even in that case, I/O for getting yuor transactions and 
storing your results are going to be over head so I would really discount Python 
  unless the example could be defined better.  I'd seriously consider Python to 
start with (but I'd consider Smalltalk first so..)

> I can't see answering 3 without also answering 2.

A browser is a fairly straightforward piece of work that I think any slowness in 
a particular language is going to be noticed when you repeat a fundamental 
operation (render an element) many, many times.  I think there's going to be a 
lot more 'stuff' going on in office suite.  That's just speculation, the real 
reason I didn't consider #2 was that I overlooked it

Take care,
Jay



From ville at spammers.com  Sat Mar 13 03:41:55 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 10:41:55 +0200
Subject: Xemacs syntax highlighting
References: <1d17eeb7.0403111721.7aae9a76@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.294.1079065597.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<du7fzce8sd8.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.311.1079101613.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7smgdt9yk.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Ville> I'm using color-theme.el myself:

    Ville> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/ColorTheme

    Ville> I urge everyone to check it out, esp. if you spend >= 8
    Ville> hours a day staring at emacs windows :).

    Skip> Thanks for the suggestion.  Got a favorite theme for Python
    Skip> bufferrs or do you rotate through a small set of themes to
    Skip> give your eyes a break?

Actually, I mostly stare C++ code, and use the same color theme for
all my emacsing. I use color-theme-midnight at work (LCD) because of
the peaceful contrast, and color-theme-clarity at home on my low end
CRT. Both have a black background. Some day I should find the energy
to go through all the color themes :).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Sat Mar 27 15:29:49 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:29:49 +0100
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<c429js$2ddf7r$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc69iht.a35.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c44o70$lvn$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>


>>> http://www.advogato.org/person/JoeNotCharles/diary.html?start=2

Cool link !   Thanks.

@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
site : http://mclaveau.com





From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Mon Mar 22 14:52:08 2004
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Delm=E9e?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:52:08 +0100
Subject: Using Oracle on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <Xns94B49B2EDEE9Fdalestricklandclark@192.168.8.150>
References: <Xns94B49B2EDEE9Fdalestricklandclark@192.168.8.150>
Message-ID: <405f4467$0$1121$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

> Given that I already have Oracle and Python installed on the Solaris box, 
> what else do I need?

You'll need a C compiler (Sun's or gcc), and the cx_Oracle module.
Grab the source code at http://www.computronix.com/utilities.shtml
When building the module (see the included instructions), make sure
you've got a working oracle environment (eg 'sqlplus' can be invoked,
and the oracle libraries can be found by the linker...)

The Python Database API is documented at:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

Cheers,

Bernard.



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Mar 17 21:35:38 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 13:25:38 +1050
Subject: New to Python.
References: <sg3i50l1utn3drvqaggrm2rqf7n2erbu8h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5i3t9.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:53:48 GMT, droog wrote:
> I have just started learning python and encountered a problem.
> All I wanted to do, was to open a text file search and count the
> number of occurances of a single word and print that count.
> Thanks for help.

Can you show us code that you've tried that fails to do what you want?

-- 
 \       "I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make |
  `\                                   an exception."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From atmo at go2.pl  Sun Mar 14 08:20:48 2004
From: atmo at go2.pl (Ringwraith)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:20:48 +0100
Subject: multiple items selection in tkinter tree
Message-ID: <c31mfh$mhb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Hi!

Have anyone ever tried to modify the Gene Cash's Tkinter tree widget
(available from http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/) so it supports
multiple items selection ( selection of multiple files like in Windows
Explorer - CTRL and SHIFT keys for file selection)?
Or maybe someone knows the tree component available to download that
supports multiple items selections? Then I will be able to take a look at
the code and see how the multiple selection is implemented.

Thank you in advance for any hints!

Best Wishes,

Niki




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 25 11:38:49 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:38:49 -0600
Subject: Converting IBM Floats..Help..
In-Reply-To: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFD@pippin.int.etrials.com>
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20DFD@pippin.int.etrials.com>
Message-ID: <20040325163849.GB16608@unpythonic.net>

Note that Python floats are C doubles, which generally have a 53-bit
mantissa.  This means that not all ibm360 floats can be exactly
represented.  The exponent ranges may also not match up.  Finally, I
have no idea if ibm360 floats have special representations for cases
like denormal, NaN, infinity, etc. so these aren't handled.

Basically, the approach is to pull the bits out of the original string
and then do some arithmetic to turn them into floats.

I don't know anything about ibm360 format, but I followed your
description, and the test passes..

import struct

def ibm360_decode(s):
    l = struct.unpack(">Q", s)[0]
    sign = l >> 63
    exponent = (l >> 56) & 0x7f - 64
    mantissa = (l & ((1L<<56) - 1)) / (16. ** 14)
    return [1,-1][sign] * (16**exponent) * mantissa

def test():
    vectors = [
        (155, 'B\x9b\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
        (77, 'BM\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
        (1, 'A\x10\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
        (0, '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'),
    ]

    for v, s in vectors:
        d = ibm360_decode(s)
        print v, d, `s`
        assert d == v

if __name__ == '__main__': test()



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Mar  4 16:11:07 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:11:07 -0500
Subject: maximum element?
References: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <qnk1xo8wc5w.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Ivan Voras <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote:

> What is the 'most pythonic' way of searching the largest element in a
> list/tuple?
>
> My 'standard' idea is:
>
> max = list[0]   # or -infinity, or whatever...
> for i in list:
>      if i > max:
>          max = i
>
> While this is ok, I somehow 'feel' there could be a more concise
> solution... :)

max(list)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Mar 22 09:56:34 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:56:34 -0800
Subject: What's missing from python?
In-Reply-To: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
Message-ID: <405f065c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

John Burton wrote:
> One of the reasons I like python so much is that the standard 
> installation comes with a whole lot of libraries to do lots of useful 
> things but there seem to be a few things missing from the standard 
> library which would be useful in many projects:
> 
> Encryption - AES and 3DES. Possibly RSA and Certificate processing.
This almost certainly not go in.  You can get into a big legal hassle
when you ship encryption binaries around, as some governments tend to
think of them as "munitions" and regulate traffic in them.  Python
just wants to avoid that hassle, and so leaves it up to you to put it
together.
> DNS - Something better than gethostbyaddr for looking up other record 
> types.
Hmmm -- I personally have no need, but whatever floats your boat.
The general rule is to build a module, get people using it, and if
there is both enough interest and a maintainer, propose its addition.

> Database - Something suitable for small projects / prototypes like 
> pysqlite or something in pure python even.
I'd personally use such a thing, but perhaps it would be a big
chunk of code.  It would need its own maintainer.  Is pysqlite
sufficiently unencumbered by license?
> SSL/TLS - Some useful support...
If you can figure out how to finesse the encryption issue, I'm sure
something in this area might be a go.

> Is there any reason why those things are not already in the standard 
> library?
Ah -- a volunteer to build and support -- I like that.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From list-python at ccraig.org  Tue Mar 30 12:44:10 2004
From: list-python at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 12:44:10 -0500
Subject: Orders of magnitude
References: <c4at6b$5vr$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<40699063.1080005@stackless.com>
	<20040330090610.E5F5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <t1wk7128c2d.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> According to the stored headers, the message IDs are not valid for any
> of the messages in the thread.  You should check the thread on google
> groups to notice how everyone else sees the 'threads'.  The only reason
> Google, or even other clients place them in the same group, is because
> the messages all have proper subjects.

Because you're seeing the nntp IDs added when it went through the
mail to news gateway.  Similarly, your posts don't show up as correct
replies to Christian or me because we see the smtp IDs added when it
went through the news to mail gateway.

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <list-python at ccraig.org>
"When all else fails, manipulate the data."




From halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com  Sun Mar  7 20:05:23 2004
From: halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com (leo)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:05:23 +1100
Subject: calling python in emacs from a shell buffer doesn't make
	input/output.
Message-ID: <c2ggrr$1u83$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi there

i'm running python 2.3.3 on on my panther imac and at work on
cygwin-windows.

on both systems, i can create a shell buffer and it works as expected: it
accepts input processes and on RET shows the output in the buffer, etc...

however when i call python interactivly in this shell buffer it doesn't
accept any input and therefore doesn't do any output at all -- until i kill
the shell with C-c C-d: then python processes all the input characters i
have
typed, writes its output to the buffer and quits. after that the shell quits
obviously as well.

so, python works kind of correct, but the input/output transfer to the
buffer is not done interactivly.

any clue?

thanks, leo




_______________________________________________
Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig






From sean_berry at cox.net  Tue Mar 30 01:35:45 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:35:45 -0800
Subject: A couple of Python CGI questions
References: <9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <2z8ac.65499$Bg.26470@fed1read03>

What about collection variables passed via the URL... like
someprogram.cgi?userid=Seam

How would I collect the userid = Sean part?

Thanks in advance.

"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309 at fed1read03...
> I tried getting mod_python to work but have had lots of problems getting
it
> running.  So, I have settled on using python cgi.
>
> I have already got it going and it seems to run fast enough for me.
>
> My questions are:
> 1.  Is there any way to access variables from within a string like perl
cgi?
> I have found that the best way for me to write html tables is to use a
print
> """<blah blah blah>""" string.  That way I can write one print """, and
then
> write html as if I were writing an html file.  For example:
> print """
> <table border="0" cellspacing="0">
> <tr>
>     <td>This is cool</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> """
> I really like this and it is a lot like typing the following in Perl cgi:
> print <<EOF
> <table border="0" cellspacing="0">
> <tr>
>     <td>This is cool</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> EOF
>
> So, is there any way to access variables from within the string, besides
> using %s?  In perl, I just put the $variable in the string and it replaces
> the varname with the value.
>
> 2.  Is there a good online resourse for pyton cgi?
> 3.  How do you collect request variables from forms sent to the python cgi
> page, whether post or get?
>
>
> Thanks very much for the help... I will continue to google for my answers.
>
> Sean
>
>
>




From noone at nowhere.net  Sat Mar 27 23:16:59 2004
From: noone at nowhere.net (Rasputin)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:16:59 -0500
Subject: os module question
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.28.04.16.59.189016@nowhere.net>

On the bash shell if I type "fortune -f" it outputs:
___% /usr/share/games/fortunes
    ___% zippy
    ___% fortunes
    ___% fortunes2-o
    ___% limerick-o
    ___% startrek
    ___% fortunes2
    ___% unamerican-o
    ___% fortunes-o
    ___% linuxcookie

When I type os.system("fortune -f") in python it outputs:
___% fortunes
''

How do I bypass it and get the orginal output?


From j.r.gao at motorola.com  Mon Mar  1 21:38:57 2004
From: j.r.gao at motorola.com (J.R.)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:38:57 +0800
Subject: Setting wrap mode in wxStyledTextCtrl will significantly make the
	performance down
Message-ID: <c20s7h$256$1@newshost.mot.com>

Hi,

I want to use the wxStyledTextCtrl to open a huge ascii file, see almost
10MB.
After I set the wrap mode, i.e. set to wxSTC_WRAP_WORD, the open and resize
of the
wxStyledTextCtrl will be much slow.

Any idea to resolve this issue?

Thanks,
J.R.




From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 06:12:04 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:12:04 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<MoG9c.49478$cx5.24632@fed1read04>
	<4067e157$0$3599$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <SvT9c.59133$cx5.48917@fed1read04>

> or that you  had come to this conclusion from a different route

That's actually impossible to tell.  The period prefix used with the "with"
clause came first, which comes from Python 3.0.  Then the capitalization was
independent I think.  But I used to Program in Ruby so the whole concept of
being able to tell scope by just looking at the vars might be from Ruby.

In any case, if it came before, it must be credited.

"Peter Hickman" <peter at semantico.com> wrote in message
news:4067e157$0$3599$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
>
> >>although there is no reference to this trait being borrowed from Ruby
> >
> >
> > I will fix that.
>
> Cheers, actually I wasn't sure if it was inspired by Ruby or that you
> had come to this conclusion from a different route. Looks interesting.




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 24 20:04:51 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:04:51 +1100
Subject: Any way to get information from fun objects about their
	parameters?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
References: <slrnc64bcn.2qa.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <20040325010451.GC17117@frobozz>

On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 12:49:57AM +0000, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> For autodocumentation purposes, I'd like to be able to load a module
> and then find out the following information about functions and
> methods defined within it:
> 
> 1) Parameter names and order
> 2) Default value, if any, associated with each parameter
> 3) If the *param or **param conventions are used in the
> parameter list.

Look at the pydoc module in the standard library, which can do all this and
more.

-Andrew.




From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar  6 15:50:04 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:04 +0100
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
In-Reply-To: <l67k40tl95birj87d522v8bncltuq3gmjt@4ax.com>
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<l67k40tl95birj87d522v8bncltuq3gmjt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <404A397C.2090408@stackless.com>

Rene Pijlman wrote:

> Brett:
> 
>>What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
>>'goto' command?
> 
> 
> While we're on the subject, is there any way to simulate the 'comefrom'
> statement?

Sure. If you grab old Stackless python 1.0 with Python 2.0,
you have first class continuations, and you can make your
code come from wherever you want :-)

It *is* possible, but this was no serious proposal.  - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 17 19:43:20 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:43:20 -0800
Subject: Specific question about readlines versus xreadlines
References: <c3aq2p$6v6$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <4058F0A8.834DA5DF@alcyone.com>

Pernell Williams wrote:

> Thank you for your responses. I have a more specific question about
> "file.seek() and file.readline()" versus "file.seek() and
> file.xreadlines".

The latter won't work, since F.xreadlines buffers its reads.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
    -- Louis Wu


From n8 at toglimi.langhirano.it  Wed Mar 24 09:10:02 2004
From: n8 at toglimi.langhirano.it (Nico Alberti)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:10:02 +0100
Subject: py2exe and activex controls
Message-ID: <c3s4ia$29u0js$1@ID-202999.news.uni-berlin.de>

First of all sorry should this be a lame question, I tried to look at a 
possible solution in google, but I was not successful.

I am trying to create an .exe of the ActiveXWrapper_Acrobat.py from the 
wxPython demo programs. While it runs smoothly in Pythonwin or from the 
command line, the executable file I obtain from py2exe does not work and 
exits with these error messages:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "acrobat.py", line 123, in ?
   File "acrobat.py", line 119, in __init__
   File "acrobat.py", line 41, in __init__
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'Pdf'
14:53:44: Debug: e:\Projects\wx2.4\src\msw\app.cpp(439): 
'UnregisterClass(canvas
)' failed with error 0x00000584 (class has still open windows*.).
14:53:44: Debug: e:\Projects\wx2.4\src\msw\app.cpp(446): 
'UnregisterClass(no red
raw canvas)' failed with error 0x00000584 (class has still open windows*.)


Does py2exe need some special tweaking for dealing with wxWindows and/or 
ActiveX calls? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Ciao
Nico

* roughly translated. In Italian in the original message.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 20 22:50:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:50:00 -0500
Subject: Any module which can act as a BitSet?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.199.1079822749.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.199.1079822749.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Z_udnUHu97d1jcDdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy wrote:

> I wanted to know in Python are there any module available which can 
> perform the same funtionality as a BitSet classs in Java. Here is the 
> Java Doc for that.
> 
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/BitSet.html

This was asked a month or so ago.  Here's the thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?th=faed34ee3de309bf&seekm=bvto8j%24t54%241%40news.service.uci.edu

(Short answer: not really, though the OP last time quickly wrote 
something that satisfied his own needs.  Maybe yours are no different?)

-Peter


From jdtiede at sstar.com  Mon Mar 15 17:43:19 2004
From: jdtiede at sstar.com (John D. Tiedeman)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:43:19 -0600
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 6, Issue 162
In-Reply-To: <E1B1ROI-0005vn-DN@mail.python.org>
References: <E1B1ROI-0005vn-DN@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <40563187.1050205@sstar.com>

On 2004-03-11 Dave Brueck wrote:

>Here's the configure command I used, don't know if it will help you at all:
>
>./configure --with-postgres-libraries=/usr/local/pgsql/lib
>--with-postgres-includes=/usr/local/pgsql/include
>--with-zope=/home/dave/Zope261
>--with-mxdatetime-includes=/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateT
>ime
>
>-Dave
>  
>
I adapted to:
    ./configure --with-postgres/libraries=/usr/local/pgsql/lib 
--with-postgres-includes=/usr/local/pgsql/include
--with-zope=/usr/lib/Zope-2.6.2-src 
--with-mxdatetime-includes=/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mx/DateTime/mxDateTime

I have python2.3 but mx is only in 2.2 for some reason. Zope-2.6.2 says 
use Python 2.1 only; it didn't install satisfactorily but as I'm not 
planning to use on a website at this point does that matter? The 
libraries are there.

At this point, using the command
    conn = psycopg.connect("dbname=personal", serialize=0)
from psycogq documentation, I get
    NameError: name 'psycopg' is not defined

What am I missing?



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 24 00:17:21 2004
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:17:21 -0700
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
References: <c3nue0$2aecj9$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.260.1080002053.742.python-list@python.org>
	<405FB88A.12995153@alcyone.com> <Ag28c.581$bm1.441@news02.roc.ny>
	<4060C0C6.3BA8FF23@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <c3r5kh$2b91lt$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

> ZOE (http://www.alcyone.com/software/zoe/) looks really nice.

Erik .... 

  I'd also like to add a word of thanks 
  for making your ZOE packagae and examples available ....

  The included Linear Algebra module, la.py,
  is very nice in itself and will probably be useful
  to me in the future ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From ressler at cheetah.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Mar 18 13:06:46 2004
From: ressler at cheetah.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Ressler)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 18:06:46 GMT
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc5jp9m.iiv.ressler@cheetah.jpl.nasa.gov>

In article <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d at posting.google.com>, Jason wrote:
> Basically, you specify two directed line segments in the coordinate
> system of a raster image and use the difference between those two
> lines to transform the image.

>     # This is the slow part of the program
>         dest = list(self.data.getdata())
>         src = source.data.getdata()
>         for x in range(0, self.data.size[0] - 1):
>             for y in range(0, self.data.size[1] - 1):

"For loops" are evil ;-)  Though I'm not familiar with your algorithm, you
should investigate the Numeric/numarray package, which is designed to
do lots of number crunching fast. If you can cast your problem into
good Numeric form, you'll see a speedup of a factor of hundreds.

Mike

-- 
Dr. Michael Ressler
Research Scientist, Astrophysics Research Element, Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Email: ressler at cheetah.jpl.nasa.gov      Phone: (818)354-5576
"A bad night at the telescope is still better than the best day at the office."


From mark at prothon.org  Sun Mar 28 14:22:52 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:22:52 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hCF9c.48998$cx5.17716@fed1read04>

> BTW, I wonder how Prothon would solve this problem

Me too.  I'll have to take a stab at it.

Mark Hahn (Prothon author daring to raise his head in the Python forum).

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724 at posting.google.com...
> > Hello, my name is Skip and I am metaclass-unaware.  I've been
programming in
> > Python for about ten years and I have yet to write a metaclass.  At
first I
> > thought it was just that metaclasses were new to the language, but now
as
> > more and more people use them and proclaim their widespread benefits, I
have
> > come to realize that through years of abuse my brain has become addicted
to
> > classic classes.
>
> I began using Python since version 2.2.1 and without knowing anything
> about OOP, so I had the advantage of a fresh start ;) Still, I will
readily
> admit that I was not immediately sold to metaclasses and actually I was
> kind of skeptical about them. The "Putting metaclasses to work" book
> made me change my mind. At this point I have becomed so accustomed to
> metaclasses that I am disturbed when I cannot use them.
>
> Just a real life example. I started studying Zope few days ago.
> Writing my first class I got caught since I was overriding a predefined
Zope
> method. I made a dir() and discovered that the context object in Zope
> has more than four hundreds (400!) attributes. In such a situation it
> is likely to override a predefined name, especially now that I am a
> beginner and I have a fair chance of reimplementing (badly) something
> which is already available. So, I thought: "well, this a job for a
metaclass"
> and in five minutes I implemented a metaclass raising an error if I was
> inadvertently overriding a predefined name (except names such as __init__
> and similia, of course). Everything was nice and good until the moment
> I tested the metaclass on a Zope class and got a segmentation fault.
>
> Since I don't know anything about Zope internals I can only make a guess
> of what happened and I would be happy if some Zope guru here could
> confirm (possibly educated) guess.
>
> In my understanding, Zope tweaked Python classes at C level code,
introducing
> the concept of Extension classes. Extension classes are instances of a C
coded
> metaclass which does a lot of magic (for instance there are methods which
> are automatically generated each time I create an extensions class);
> unfortunately, this metaclass does not follow the protocol of Python 2.2+
> metaclasses.  This is evidently an historical accident, since Zope
Extension
> Classes were invented before Python 2.2 [*]; the net result is that I
cannot
> mix Python classes with custom metaclasses and Zope Extension classes.
>
> I have heard that this is a temporary wart and that Zope 3 will solve
> this issue (I'd like to have a confirmation here). However, for the
> moment, I had to come out with a non-metaclass solution.
>
> So, I reverted my mind to the pre-metaclass functioning mode (which
required
> a certain effort) and I wrote a function that takes a class, looks at
> its dictionary, and raises an error if the class overrides an attribute
> which is already defined in the parent classes. The solution works,
> but it is kind of ugly compared to the metaclass solution:
>
> 1. The metaclass can raise the error *before* the metaclass is created,
>    whereas the function works a posteriori, *after* the overriding is
done;
>    if find it to be conceptually unsatisfactory, I don't want to create
>    a class just to throw it away. The alternative is to use a class
factory,
>    but then I have just re-invented a metaclass with an ugly call syntax.
>
> 2. The metaclass can be inherited, so the check is automatic for all
children;
>    on the contrary, I have to call the function by hand each time I define
>    a new class. This means writing twice the class name, which is error
>    prone if I later rename the class and I forget to update the function
>    call.
>
> Whereas it is true that in most cases you can find a non-metaclass
solution,
> it is also true that in most case the metaclass solution is by far more
> elegant than the alternative.
>
> BTW, I wonder how Prothon would solve this problem, i.e. selectively
> forbidding the overriding of names, with an easy of use/elegance
> comparable to the Python metaclass solution.
>
>                                  Michele Simionato
>
>
> [*] I would be curious to know if Guido decided to expose metaclasses in
> Python since he noticed that they were already being used in real
applications
> such as Zope (in some hidden form), or if there was some other reason.




From olku at web.de  Wed Mar 17 09:24:11 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:24:11 +0100
Subject: imaplib.IMAP4: Bug in implementation
Message-ID: <200403171424.i2HEOBQ27912@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

>  > I call the uid like this
>  >
>  > uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\SEEN)")
> 
> 
> Are you shure you don't mean::
> 
>      uid("STORE",uid,"+FLAGS(\\SEEN)")
> 
> You are trying to create a non-existent special character, escaping the 
> s in your example.
> 
> I am not quite shure how Python reacts to that.

Even if I use two \ it doesn't work, cause the IMAP-server doesn't like the quoting. 

BTW! Python makes two \ from this one. But as I said the problem is the quoting of the arguments.

--?
--
Oliver?Kurz




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Mar 11 09:42:02 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:42:02 -0600
Subject: RuntimeError: cannot unmarshal code objects in restricted
	execution mode
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403111622580.21016-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0403111622580.21016-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>
Message-ID: <20040311144202.GB14393@unpythonic.net>

You need to determine why the builtins in main_dict are not the same as
the interpreter's builtins -- this is the reason for "restricted
execution mode".

./Objects/frameobject.c:        f->f_restricted = (builtins != tstate->interp->builtins);

Jeff



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Mar 12 08:25:45 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:25:45 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.307.1079086151.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2sbhr$ik7$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c2sdms$kk7$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Maas schrieb:
> class doesTypeChecking:
>     def __init__(self):
>         aString = ""
>         aFloat = 0.0

sorry, I was too hasty. Here is the tested code:

class doesTypeChecking:
     def __init__(self):
         self.__dict__["aString"] = ""
         self.__dict__["aFloat"] = 0.0

     def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
         if type(self.__dict__[attr]) != type(value):
             raise ValueError, "Type mismatch for attribute %s\n" % attr

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Mar 25 11:25:56 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: Prothon, a classless Python
Message-ID: <kKD8c.10511$cx5.1793@fed1read04>

I would like to announce a new interpreted object-oriented language very
closely based on Python, that is Prototype-based, like Self
(http://research.sun.com/research/self/language.html) instead of class-based
like Python.

I have named the language Prothon, short for PROtotype pyTHON.  You can
check it out at http://prothon.org.

The prototype scheme makes object oriented computing very simple and
complicated things like meta-classes dissapear.  Once you get used to
prototypes, classes seem old-fashioned.  You can inherit data as well as
methods and you can switch prototypes on the fly.

Anyone who knows Python can program in Prothon with almost no learning
curve.  Prothon is pre-alpha, but runs well enough to give it a spin.  Basic
types, the File object, importing, packages, and the Re module are ready to
try. It runs on Linux/Unix and Windows.

Obviously Prothon is not Python compatible, so I have taken the liberty of
implementing many changes that have been imagined for the almost mythical
Python 3.0.  Right now I've made decisions unilaterally, but I'm not
planning on freezing language decisions until 7/04, so get on the Prothon
mailing lists and make your opinions known.

Since the Prothon interpreter has been written from the ground up, we've had
the opportunity to make it industrial-strength.  We feel this is very
important for high-end hosting applications, and that this is a current
weakness of Python and it's GIL.  Prothon has no GIL.  Here are some
interpreter features:

- Uses native OS threads, even multiple interpreters can run at once on the
same objects.

- Locking is done at the object level with shared read locks and exclusive
write locks.

- No recursion limits, Prothon is stackless.

- Garbage collection is mark-and-sweep in a seperate thread.

- C coding is simple.  Macros simulate coding at Prothon level. (No
reference counting!)

- Ints are 64-bits, internal architecture is all 64-bit.

- Built on Apache Portable Runtime (APR) for stability, ease in porting, and
eventual integration with Apache.





From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  2 11:10:43 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:10:43 -0600
Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
References: <mailman.14.1078214898.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2ImdnVPOZbydL9ndRVn-vw@comcast.com>

I made the change, but get the exact same error message.

I went back and checked the book again and it reads
(on page 359):

"The files PythonService.exe, win32evtlog.pyd, and
win32service.pyd each have a set of generic messages.
Each file has nine messages for each of the classes
Error, Informational, Warning, and Success."

I tried all three of these AND servicemanager.pyd
and I can't make any of them work.

Mark Hammond, are you out there anywhere?

Regards,
Larry

"Pieter Claerhout" <Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.14.1078214898.12614.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Larry,
>
> try the following:
>
> win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
>     'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\servicemanager.pyd',
>     'Application')
>
> The PythonService.exe doesn't contain the messages, but servicemanager.pyd
> does.
>
> cheers,
>
>
> pieter
>
> Creo
> pieter claerhout | product support prinergy | tel: +32 2 352 2511 |
> pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com
>
> IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On
Behalf
> Of Larry Bates
> Sent: 02 March 2004 00:20
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
>
> I have tried everything I know to get my NT service
> to make correct entries in the NT Event Log when the
> service is started and stopped (and eventually when
> permanent failures occur).
>
> I'm copying the code I see on page 356 of Python
> Programming on Win32 and for the life of me I cannot
> get this to work properly.  Basically I have
> the following code snippet at the top of my SvcDoRun
> method:
>
> import servicemanager
> servicemanager.LogMsg(
>     servicemanager.EVENTLOG_INFORMATION_TYPE,
>     servicemanager.PYS_SERVICE_STARTED,
>     (self._svc_name_,''))
>
> I also inserted the following to make the proper
> registry entries when the service is installed:
>
> win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
>     'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\PythonService.exe',
>     'Application')
>
> The entry that gets put into the Event Log is as follows:
>
> The description for Event ID ( 4098 ) in Source
> ( PythonService ) cannot be found. The local computer
> may not have the necessary registry information or
> message DLL files to display messages from a remote
> computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE=
> flag to retrieve this description; see Help and
> Support for details. The following information is
> part of the event: AFR, .
>
> Note:  _svc_name_="AFR"
>
> Something is not set correctly, but for the life of me
> I cannot determine what.
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>
> Regards,
> Larry Bates
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Mar 29 22:06:50 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:06:50 -0600
Subject: histogram type thingy for (unique) dict items
In-Reply-To: <5e8bd451.0403291801.51071ca2@posting.google.com>
	(kp87@lycos.com's message of "29 Mar 2004 18:01:03 -0800")
References: <5e8bd451.0403291801.51071ca2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2zn9zav91.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "kevin" == kevin parks <kp87 at lycos.com> writes:

    kevin> hi. I've been banging my head against this one a while and
    kevin> have asked around, and i am throwing this one out there in
    kevin> the hopes that some one can shed some light on what has
    kevin> turned out to be a tough problem for me (though i am
    kevin> getting closer).

    kevin> i have been mucking with a lot of data in a dictionary that
    kevin> looks like:

If I'm understanding you correctly, something like the following
should speed you on your way:

foo = { (5, 138, 1) : [ 0, 2, 7 ], 
	(7, 264, 1) : [ 0, 2, 7 ], 
	(9, 367, 0) : [ 0, 2, 7 ], 
	(5, 156, 1) : [ 0, 7, 2 ], 
	(8, 315, 1) : [ 0, 7, 2 ], 
	(8, 317, 1) : [ 0, 7, 2 ],
        (1,2,3)     : [4,5,6],}
# reverse the dict so that the values point to a list of keys which
# share that value, ignoring the order of the vale
rd = {}  # reverse dict
for key, val in foo.items():
    val.sort()
    rd.setdefault(tuple(val),[]).append(key)

for key,val in rd.items():
    print key,val

# make a count dictionary
countd = {}
for key, val in rd.items():
    countd[key] = len(val)
    print key, countd[key]


You can easily sort the count dictionary - search google for order
dictionary by values.

Hope this helps,
JDH



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 12:28:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:28:29 -0500
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Duncan Lissett wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ at powergate.ca>...
> 
> 
>>There's a hint on http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/Bench.html
>>(Martin's own page on the subject) which suggests ("designed for the
>>comparison of System Implementation Languages") that this is not
>>a suitable benchmark for Python anyway.  Python doesn't normally
>>get used in that domain, and it might be it can't even do what
>>is required without resorting to C extensions...
> 
> 
> That would be sad, given that language implementors have used Bench to
> explore the performance characteristics of Smalltalk and Self and
> Java.
> 
> "Benchmarking Java with the Richards benchmark"
> http://research.sun.com/people/mario/java_benchmarking/richards/richards.html

That has useful additional info I couldn't find on Richards' own site.
(His own site refers to it as "bench", but I guess others call it
"richard" -- it helps to be searching for the right thing.)

It appears the "specification" is his original, which was written
in BCPL.  It also seems that the problem is relatively generic,
just a "task scheduler", without really requiring low-level support
of the kind I feared (after looking at the Pascal and C versions).

I'd implement it in Python for kicks, but I'm not sure how I'd know
whether my version was doing the right thing.  Are there any tests
for it?  Ways of ensuring the output is correct?

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar 20 01:41:39 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:41:39 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <105mmlt1ld7jvb9@news.supernews.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3gp2v$foi$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ef9bea6.0403192150.57dbddef at posting.google.com...
> > "Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
> > > Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python
lost
> > > class static variables values.
> ---------------------------------
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:<105mmlt1ld7jvb9 at news.supernews.com>...
> > There is no such thing as a static variable in Python.
> ---------------------------------
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list at python.org>...
> > Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
> > mean.
> ---------------------------------
>
> A little hyphen would have made a whole world of difference. The
> original poster was referring to "class-static variable",

In Python, that is a meaningless term to me.

>That's the standard jargon in languages like C++ or Java.

Python is neither C++ nor Java.  It's data model is quite different.
Imported jargon is meaningless to those not familiear with is.  Adding the
word 'static' to 'class attribute' or 'class variable' adds nothing since
there is no differentiation from a hypothetical 'non-static' class
attribute.

> To be fair, the same jargon persists in Python when it comes to
> staticmethod(): staticmethod in Python 2.3 has nothing to do with
> "function staticity", but rather it refers to "class statiticity".

'class statiticity'? is meaningless to me.  Actually, 'staticmethod' is
something of a misnomer since the effect of staticmethod(function) is to
mark the function as one to *not* be wrapped as a method but to be left
alone as a function, just like function attributes of instances.
'unwrapped' might have been better.  I think there was an overstriving for
parallelism with 'classmethod', which is an accurate and meaningful term
(the contrast being with 'instance method').

Terry J. Reedy








From axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de  Tue Mar 16 04:30:53 2004
From: axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de (Axel Koehler)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:30:53 +0100
Subject: Start and control an extern program
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<4051087D.1050409@zoran.com>
	<kp4qsr5x1i.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<c3516l$6i9$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <kpfzc9dtpu.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>



Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:

>> But what is a timer objekt? Can't find it in my documentation of the
>> python library.
>
> threading.Timer
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/timer-objects.html
>
Thank you for the hint, 


but this needs threads, is this really portabel in all versions  of 
python under linux?

Axel

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
Dipl. Ing. Axel K"ohler,   axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de      Tel: 030-314 73141
TU Berlin, FAK I,  Sekr. FR 3-15,  Franklinstr. 28-29           10587 Berlin


From pwatson at redlinec.com  Sat Mar 13 23:30:26 2004
From: pwatson at redlinec.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:30:26 -0600
Subject: execute script everywhere
References: <mailman.12.1079231052.745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4053dfe3$1_1@themost.net>

"myang" <myang at clarku.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.12.1079231052.745.python-list at python.org...
>
> After we compile a C program, we can put the executable file under a
> directory (like /bin) so that we can run it everywhere, and don't have to
> type the full path.
> Can we do the same thing to a python script?
> For example, I have a script.py under "/home/john/". Can I just type
"python
> script.py" to run it under another directory "/home/tom/"?
> Thanks!
>
> Yang

It appears that you are on a UNIX system.  Most systems will support
"shebang" proceesing of the first line in the file.  The first line tells
UNIX to find 'python' in the PATH and run it to exectute this script.  Use
'man env' for more information.

#! /usr/bin/env python
import os
import sys
...

When you do this, you do not need to uses the word 'python' on the command.
At the '$' prompt, just use:

script.py

The first line tells it to use Python to process the file.  Of course
/home/john where the script.py file exists must be in the PATH variable in
order to run it from anywhere.  Just like you have /bin in your PATH
variable already.




From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Mar 11 06:18:23 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:18:23 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Video module?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403111313480.29596@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi!

Is anybody aware of some good Python module for playing video (mpeg-2,
mov, avi or similar)? I looked at pygame.movie, but it does not seem
stable enough for my purposes. I have also tried using Windows Media
Player with COM, but that is cumbersome. The module must work on Windows
(and preferably on Linux as well). Basically, what I need to be able to
do is play a selected interval of the movie and if possible also rip
the sound track from the movie file as a WAV file.

Any ideas anybody?

Cheers,

Mickel Gr?nroos
--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 14:11:20 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:11:20 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 : Def and Class in expressions
References: <opr5jagci1b723ru@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <Kkk9c.52719$re.2983492@news20.bellglobal.com>

"PF" <peufeu at free.fr> wrote in message news:opr5jagci1b723ru at news.free.fr...
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm pleased to see activity on this topic as it pains me to write
> "classmethod" two pages of code after the method definition. However I
> find the decorators to obfuscate the syntax and lessen the expressivity
> (ie. they restrain what can be done).
>
> All these problems come from the fact that the execution of the
> "foo=staticmethod(foo)" must be delayed after the execution of the "def"
> statement because it must act on the function after it has been defined.
>
> Normal program execution thus flow forces it to be placed after the
> "def", while readability would require it to be placed *before* the 'def'.
>
> How to reverse the execution order ? One method would be to use an
> expression, but that would get very ugly soon, and Python's indented
> syntax does not lend itself well to such twistings. To mix a few previous
> postings :
>
> mymethod = staticmethod( def (args):
> method code...
> )
>
> is just plain ugly.
>
> mymethod = staticmethod( def (args) ):
> method code...
>
> is also quite ugly.
>
> I don't like the decorators either.
>
> So the root of the problem is the fact that the source code executes from
> top to bottom. I see two solutions.


Check out "Re: Meta-class fun with PEP 318 [was Re: PEP 318 - posting
draft]", for another solution, but only for methods.

    decorate("g", staticmethod)
    def g():
        return "G"

Sean




From budr at local.host  Thu Mar  4 17:51:39 2004
From: budr at local.host (Bud Rogers)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:51:39 -0600
Subject: what is a good intro book on python ?
References: <fa148c36.0403041035.70f32e4d@posting.google.com>
	<c28ajn$1k$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <sgokh1-42q.ln1@twocups.netride.net>

vincent wehren wrote:

 > "Learning Python, Second Edition" by David Ascher and Mark Lutz (1.13
> inches) perhaps?
> 
> And then, not so much *intro* but absolutely *vital*:
> 
> "Python in a Nutshell" by Alex Martelli (1.14 inches)
> "Python Cookbook", by Alex Martelli, David Asher (Editors) (1.10
> inches)

I am actively lusting for the Cookbook.  I have had LP 1st edition for a
while.  Is there enough more/newer/better about the 2nd edition to
justify buying it as well?

budr


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 14:35:17 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:35:17 -0600
Subject: getting size of gif
In-Reply-To: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16462.7285.494398.712218@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Sebastien> I would like to know if there is a module out there to help
    Sebastien> me get the size of a gif image. 

Yup.  Check out PIL from Pythonware.

Skip



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Mar  1 06:38:11 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:38:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Image width, height.
Message-ID: <20040301113811.36552.qmail@web8310.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello,

Is there a Py module available using which I can find
the width and height of any image format?

-Premshree

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From happ_dickson at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  2 18:25:18 2004
From: happ_dickson at yahoo.ca (b0x)
Date: Tue,  2 Mar 2004 17:25:18 -0600
Subject: HOWTO: Python 2.3 on Fedora Core 1 Linux
References: <pan.2003.11.26.02.51.36.170640@phreaker.nospam>
Message-ID: <c2e5ae25991ca3a3ae8026133b4f2f5b@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

hey, thx alot for this topic,i had so many problems in installing tkinter , google didnt help me this time, but your toipc did :0) ..




From theller at python.net  Tue Mar  2 13:06:12 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:06:12 +0100
Subject: python.exe vs pythonw.exe difference?
References: <oerfn164.fsf@python.net>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEAFJEAB.tim@zope.com>
Message-ID: <ptbvktt7.fsf@python.net>

"Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> writes:

> [moving this from comp.lang.python to zope-dev; it really belongs on a
>  Zope list, although schemes to change what pythonw does probably belong
>  on python-dev]

[I'm currently reading python-list via the gmane nntp interface, I don't
know whether there really is a gmane.comp.web.zope.devel newsgroup]

> [Thomas Heller]
>> It has been reported that writing to the original sys.stdout (and
>> maybe also sys.stderr) sooner or later raises an IOError when running
>> pythonw.exe, unless these are redirected.  Could this be the problem?
>
> It could, although I have no idea what WinXP does (and don't have access to
> XP).  Here's a Python program to try:
>
> """
> import sys
> if 1:   # edit to 1 for stdout, 0 for stderr
>     console = sys.stdout
> else:
>     console = sys.stderr
>
> import traceback
> tb = file('tb.txt', 'w')
>
> try:
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         i += 1
>         console.write('.')
> except:
>     print >> tb, "Died when trying to write byte", i
>     traceback.print_exc(file=tb)
>     tb.close()
> """
>
> Under Win98SE, and regardless of whether it writes to stdout or stderr, it
> dies when run under pythonw, and tb.txt contains this after:
>
> Died when trying to write byte 4097
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "wr.py", line 14, in ?
>     console.write('.')
> IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

I get exactly the same, on Win XP Pro, both for sys.stdout and sys.stderr.

> The point of pythonw.exe is that no console is created or inherited, and the
> default stdin, stdout and stderr provided by MS C in that case are unusable
> (although the output flavors can appear to be usable until some secret MS
> limit is exceeded -- at least under Win98SE).

Since it seems XP shows the same behaviour than win98SE, has the
behaviour of Python changed?  Were IOErrors ignored on sys.stdout or
sys.stderr in earlier versions?

IIRC, /F first proposed that pythonw.exe should create a console to have
a place to show tracebacks.  Sounds like a good idea to me.

Thomas




From grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr  Thu Mar 11 12:07:37 2004
From: grelens at NOSPAMyahoo.NOTNEEDEDfr (GrelEns)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:07:37 +0100
Subject: Speed up loading and free memory...
References: <4050244d$0$305$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<110320040725438317%bscholln@mac.com>
Message-ID: <40509cc2$0$289$626a14ce@news.free.fr>


"benjamin schollnick" <bscholln at mac.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
110320040725438317%bscholln at mac.com...

> Maybe a different method of handling this would solve your issue.
>
> For example, does the data all have to be stored in a single file?
> Would using multiple indexs, and multiple storage files improve your
> performance?
>
> But those are question I can not answer...

files must not be modified, index file contains on one line a key and an
offset which can be use to go directly to data file.

thx




From piedmontbiz at aol.com  Mon Mar  1 16:18:35 2004
From: piedmontbiz at aol.com (PiedmontBiz)
Date: 01 Mar 2004 21:18:35 GMT
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
References: <ea2ed14f.0403011151.406ab5ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040301161835.20170.00000686@mb-m27.aol.com>

>From: likwoka at yahoo.com  (Alex Li)
>Date: 3/1/04 2:51 PM Eastern Standard T
>Hi all,
>
>I would like to create a quiz show game for play in a party.  The
>physical setup would probably be a big screen where everyone (players
>and host) can see, which shows a question, and a multiple choice of
>answer.  The player, with a client computer and keyboard in front,
>will press a key to pick an answer.  The client program, will then
>send the player's choice through the wire to the server program.  The
>server program will validate the player's answer and the one that is 
>correct and fastest will get a point.  Then we go on to the next
>questions...etc.
>
>Some more specific requirements:
>1) the programm will probably run on some windows machines
>2) need unicode support (ie. questions and answers will be shown in
>Chinese)
>3) the display will be a full screen display (ie, no window's toolbar
>or taskbar shown)
>
>My current thinking is:
>1) Use twisted for the networking code
>2) Use wxpython for the screen display
>
>My questions are:  
>Does anyone have any recommendation of what frameworks/libraries to
>use?  I am kind of worry about mixing all these libraries/frameworks
>together for them to play nicely... Would pygame help simplify?
>
>Thanks a lot,
>Alex
>
>
>

I'll let the experts answer this one. But I have a question. Do you rule out a
http server ? If I were doing this I would avoid the apparent complexity
wxpython and just use standard html and javascript to pass the answers to the
server. The python script could record time it got the "get" and return it with
the validation.


allen



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 15 07:46:49 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:46:49 GMT
Subject: Deprecating reload() ???
References: <09b350henbtk9vnai0v7fhtbsqbmubl7vn@4ax.com>
	<7cj4c.2733$G3.21896@localhost>
	<8ok3505b3b3g22bk8ci6iagptqav2cfi6r@4ax.com>
	<mailman.322.1079113337.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<eo4450p83cdllt1ntmu6ad0rffi0na8dab@4ax.com>
	<mailman.331.1079126290.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<fb9650lchuuuhgs5bb8v4v1mkr8v8d9sk5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.362.1079195407.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<6kk6501shlve52ds2rjdopa73jhpchprg3@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2.1079209742.688.python-list@python.org>
	<bri8509bb89euassu0r95su43a4lq4vssb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3oeqy9t1i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> writes:

> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:27:00 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >    David> I'm not sure at this point if an improved reload() is worth
> >    David> pursuing, ...
> >
> >I wrote something and threw it up on my Python Bits page:
> >
> >    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/
> 
> I get AttributeErrors when I try the super_reload function. Looks like
> sys.modules has a bunch of items with no '__dict__'.

They'll be None, mostly.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  C++ is a siren song.  It *looks* like a HLL in which you ought to
  be able to write an application, but it really isn't.
                                       -- Alain Picard, comp.lang.lisp


From leens_chacko at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 31 16:57:15 2004
From: leens_chacko at hotmail.com (Leeny)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 13:57:15 -0800
Subject: Pymat
Message-ID: <ca305c70.0403311357.3d436b2b@posting.google.com>

Hi Group,

Hope someone can help me with this problem. I am a new user to python
and am currently working with pymat module of python.

I tried to create plots thru pymat using pymat.eval(h, 'plot(x,y)')
This is working fine. However, i dont know how to print or save this
plot as a .tif image something like

print(gcf, '-dtiff', 'test')

using pymat.

Please help me!!!!

Thanks 
Leeny


From paul at prescod.net  Wed Mar 10 14:24:45 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:24:45 -0800
Subject: Unicode and rdf
In-Reply-To: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
References: <vu9t40l9mvk3e5h94j2ojnh15909rdlb34@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <404F6B7D.9070503@prescod.net>

Richard West wrote:
 > I'm trying to parse the rdf dumps from dmoz.org (Open Directory
 > Project) and am having great difficulty just getting Python to read
 > the files.  The files are RDF in UTF-8 encoding according to the
 > dmoz.org web site, but I get the following error:
 >
 > UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
 > 52376-52378: invalid data


Perhaps you could try using another XML parser or validator unrelated to 
Python. I am 90% confident that you will find that it will report the 
same problem. For instance you could use "xmlwf" that comes with Expat

http://sourceforge.net/projects/expat/

  Paul Prescod




From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Mar 22 16:30:30 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:30:30 +0000
Subject: Newbie Formatting Question
References: <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680@news.teleline.es>
Message-ID: <1079991015.28749.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>

In message <MPG.1ac933d4aaaa7d02989680 at news.teleline.es>, . wrote:

> I'm going through "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist", and
> am in chapter 11. (aside: what do you think of the book? any
> recommendations for other books?)

I thought it was a good introduction both to programming and to Python. Here
are a few others:

Learning to Program: http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/
A Byte of Python: http://www.python.g2swaroop.net/
Dive Into Python: http://diveintopython.org/
Text Processing in Python: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/
Python Cookbook: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/
An Introduction to TkInter:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

And more: http://www.tcfb.com/freetechbooks/bookphyton.html

> I have a question about an example of formatting in the book
> (page 120). There is a line that says:
> 
> print "%-20x %12.02f" % (student, wages[student])
> 
> I understand what's going on, and the example works fine.
> I just don't understand what the 0 is doing in the %12.02f format
> specification. I thought it might be to force padding zeroes, but
> I get the same result with or without the 0. Also, %12.0002f
> gives the same result. Was this a typo, or is there something
> that I'm not understanding?

I don't know if it was a typo or whether it's just the author's habit to put
an extra 0 in there. It works fine with or without it for any number I
could throw at it. The C sprintf() function uses a similar specification in
which the 0 in that position does (AFAICR) mean 'pad with zeroes'. A
specification of "%12.02f" would yield "1.20" while a specification of
"%12.2f" would yield "1.2". Python seems to force the zero-padding, or it
doesn't use sprintf() maybe...

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From zinc at unknown.com  Thu Mar 25 14:52:12 2004
From: zinc at unknown.com (zinc)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:52:12 +0000
Subject: How to install pyGTK(2)
Message-ID: <pan.2004.03.25.19.52.06.545791@unknown.com>


Hi Pythoneers,

Im interested in trying some gui programming with the GTK2 toolkit. I
found this brief article,(http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6586),
that speaks about utilising 'Glade' to help build these gui.

I downloaded the pyGTK tarball from
http://www.daa.com.au/~james/software/pygtk/ i do the usual ./configure,
make, makeinstall. 

Everything goes well, but when i try a sample script python says it can't
import gtk (i did a help, modules and there is no gtk module listed).
After googling for sometime i found a pygtk slackpack (im running slack
9.1 by the way ;)), and installed that instead. 

I then tried the sample script again and this time no gtk problems( the
module is now listed). but it now bombs out on the second import line:
import libglade???

I have glade2 installed, and libglade, but i check python modules and
there is no libglade module listed. Ive googled, but now im getting
confused.

Phew..

I'm really just after a step by step guide to what to download and where
to install everything i need to get started building gui's with
glade+pyGTK+python. This would be much appreciated. 

I promise i googled hard, but sometimes i can't see the wood for the trees :/
Getting my pyGTK, pyGTK2+pyGLADE+python-libglade's all mixed up and just a
little lost.

Any help would be warmly received.

Regards

zinc




From max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com  Mon Mar  1 13:31:43 2004
From: max at NcOviSsPiAoMntech.com (max khesin)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:31:43 GMT
Subject: Jython Debugger?
Message-ID: <jkL0c.94$c73.143227@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Hi all,
I was takling to someone who has been using Jython for a while. Their 
biggest complaint is the luck of a good debugger. I was really 
surprised. Isn't there anything decent out there?
thanks,
max


From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Mar 29 16:27:35 2004
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:27:35 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<ydS9c.58116$cx5.36263@fed1read04>
	<20040329122936.GA1088@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <00e601c415d4$a750d8c0$d701a8c0@MarkVaio>

> Is there some inter-operability sought between Prothon and Python?

No, I assumed from day one that the lack of classes meant a fundamental
incompatability.  However, even though I am designing a new language, I have
no desire to re-invent anything for any arbitrary reason, so I chose to
"steal"  everything from Python unless it conflicted with the prototype
paradigm or I or other Pythoners considered the current Python broken.  I am
changing to all of Guido's "regrets" for example.

One example of something I consider broken in Python is the generator scheme
using the def keyword and not allowing nesting of generators.  I just added
docs for my gen keyword today to the Prothon website.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fran?ois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca>
To: "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: A 'Python like' language


[Mark Hahn]
> > Yes, this seemed interesting to me too. But when arrived at the sentence
> > "Prothon only allows tabs for indentation" I couldn't continue reading
;-)

> It appears we will be bowing to pressure and switching to spaces.

This might be good news.  Despite a bit curious about prototype-based
languages, I initially stopped reading about Prothon when I saw that it
chose mandatory TABs. `make' is the only tool for which I still give in
such things :-).

Allow me a question.  Is there some inter-operability sought between
Prothon and Python?  That could ease taming communities.  As far as I
understood, so far, these are currently meant as incompatible beasts.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard







From michael at foord.net  Thu Mar 18 10:06:48 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:48 +0000
Subject: dictionary wart
References: <6b17fa95.0403180441.a747b15@posting.google.com>
	<7xr7vquwpo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<LKh6c.11860$g4.239900@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <4eej50944f0lk1dc3fag82qumcsk4t39j9@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:46:19 GMT, Jesper <jolsen at mail2world.com>
wrote:

>Paul Rubin wrote:
>> jolsen at mail2world.com (Jesper Olsen) writes:
>> 
>>>Does python have a way of defining a dictionary default? 
>>>I think not, but are there any plans to incorporate it?
>>>
>>>Intuitively I would imagine that
>>>
>>>a={}
>>>a.set_default(my_default)
>>>
>>>would do this -ie. a[my_new_key] should now return the the default
>>>value my_default instead of creating an exception. 
>> 
>> 
>> No, instead of a[my_new_key] use a.get(my_new_key, my_default).
>> That does what you want.
>
>Unfortunately not - get() is different, because you can not assign to it.
>For instance in a dictionary which is mapping strings to integers (or 
>lists), I would like to do
>
>a[my_key]+=5
>
>expressing that with get() would be awkward.
>
>Jesper

You can however subclass dict to create something that *behaves* like
a dictionary, but for unknown keys returns a default :

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

e.g. (untested - but should work)


class defaultDict(dict):
    """A dictionary that returns a default for non-existent keys.
    Won't work for methods like pop unless you also define them as
well."""
    def __init__(self, default):
        dict.__init__(self)
        self.default = default

    def __getitem__(self, item):
        if self.has_key(item):
            return dict.__getitem__(self, key) 
        else:
            return self.default

if __name__ == '__main__':
    a = defaultDict(3)
    a['test'] = 4
    print a['test']
    print a['fish']




---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 16:06:33 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:06:33 -0800
Subject: problems with nltk
In-Reply-To: <mailman.231.1079963277.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.231.1079963277.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3q92k$5dt$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "/home/name/nltk-1.3/nltk/token.py", line 308
>        yield self._deep_restrict(item, props, incl)

Python 2.1 does not support generators.  You need 2.2 or later.

  - Josiah


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 22 18:39:11 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:39:11 +0100
Subject: Slow Python - what can be done?
In-Reply-To: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
References: <480e9240.0403180943.64bee13d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405F791F.8050001@stackless.com>

Jason wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> I'm an experience programmer but new to Python. I'm doing a simple
> implementation of a field morphing techinique due to Beier and Neely
> (1992) and I have the simple case working in Python 2.3 - but it's
> REALLY slow.

That's ok.

> Basically, you specify two directed line segments in the coordinate
> system of a raster image and use the difference between those two
> lines to transform the image.
> 
> for a 400 x 600 image, python takes about 30 seconds to run the
> algorithm. This seems way to slow - I would expect it to run in a
> matter of a few seconds. Here's the code: what should I do to speed
> things up? I know I'm going to get a "do it in C/make a C extension"
> but that defeats the purpose: I'd like to know what Python can do
> here.

Well, I am on this least for years now, and I know most
of the answers in advance (and most have been here),
so I'm not adding new stuff how to optimize this.

Although in fact your inner point class raises the expenses
considerably.

If you need a fast algorithm right now, you need to change
your program, probably by writing or using C extensions.

This has always been the flip side of Python: When the real
fun begins, Python is too slow. It is great on everything
but speed. Advice then mostly concentrates on how to make
you using something else for the time critical code.

This is what we will solve by the PyPy project. We are besides
other things automating a way to analyse and optimize Python
programs for C-like speed. The advantage is that you can stick
with your Python program. It will just be very fast, compared
to, say, C. (We don't know yet  *how exactly* this will compare :-)

So, if you have the time, wait for two years. Or use Psyco, and
rewrite your Points to use simple Tuples, or use NumPy.
But please keep a copy of your initial approach.
I would be very interested to see how this compares when
we have the first results from our PyPy project.

cheers - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From mirrorball at interair.com.br  Tue Mar  9 17:15:46 2004
From: mirrorball at interair.com.br (Carolina Feher)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 14:15:46 -0800
Subject: Is this a bug?
Message-ID: <4cc8f8db.0403091415.e606e29@posting.google.com>

>>> def f(a):
...     return 5
...
>>> class A(list):
...     g = f
...     def __new__(cls):
...             c = list.__new__(cls, [1, 2])
...             c.g()
...             return c
...
>>> a = A()
>>> a
[]

Why is an empty list returned?


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Mar  1 03:14:48 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 00:14:48 -0800
Subject: Feature request: subclassing FunctionType [Was: Some language
	proposals]
References: <95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0403010014.4222ce8e@posting.google.com>

Thinking a bit more, the issue is not about the scope rules, it is about
how the "for" loop is interpreted. Currently

for i in iterable:
    <do_something i>

is interpreted as

try:
    it=iter(iterable)
    while True:
        i=it.next()
        <do_something i>
except StopIteration:
    pass

The issue would disappear if the "for" loop included an hidden function
call and was interpreted as follows:

try:   
    it=iter(iterable)
    def helper(i):
        <do_something i>
    while True:
        helper(it.next())
except StopIteration:
    pass

For instance, in the example I am talking about,

def make_adders(n):
    return [lambda x: x+i for i in range(n)]

would be interpreted as

def make_adders(n):
    try:
        adders=[]
        it=iter(range(2))
        def helper(i):
            adders.append(lambda x: x+i)
        while True:
            helper(it.next())
    except StopIteration:
        return adders

Essentially, the "i" variable would be passed via the helper function
call and at each iteration the lambda function would see a different
value of it.

I am proposing nothing here, just asking if it would make sense to
have a looping construct acting this way (my guess is that this
has already been proposed and discussed). This would have
the added benefit of avoiding a non-local loop variable (i.e. a
loop variable which exists even outside the loop) which is the
actual unfortunate behavior.

       Michele Simionato


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Mar 10 16:57:42 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:57:42 -0500
Subject: question: numarray c extension error handling?
References: <c2nvs7$gi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <qnksmggs6uh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Russell E. Owen" <no at spam.invalid> wrote:

> I'm writing a C extension for numarray and am puzzled about the idiom 
> for error handling.
>
> The documentation seems to say one should always decref an array after 
> calling  NA_InputArray, etc., to convert numarray args to C arrays. 
>
> However, the example and also the numarray code suggests that it's OK to 
> return early via (for example) PyErr_Format without doing the DECREF. 
> For example, I have appended a very abbreviated version of the sample 
> code.
>
> Comments? I'll plow ahead and follow the example (i.e. with early 
> return) but I was wondering if anyone knew why this was OK. Perhaps I 
> should put in a request to the numarray project for a clarification in 
> the documentation.
>
> -- Russell
>
> static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
> {
>     PyObject   *okernel,...;
>     PyArrayObject *kernel...;
>
>     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...))
>         return PyErr_Format(_convolveError, 
>                     "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");

This is ok; if PyArg_ParseTuple is NULL, no objects are created (or
INCREF'd). Also, if it's not NULL, okernel is a borrowed reference;
you shouldn't DECREF it.

>
>     /* Align, Byteswap, Contiguous, Typeconvert */
>     kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
> ...
>     if (!kernel...)
>         return PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
>                  "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");

This is also ok (assuming there is nothing between this and the above
which makes a reference to objects). If NA_IoArray returns NULL,
there isn't anything to DECREF.

> ...
>     Py_XDECREF(kernel);
> ...
> }

Personally, I write it like this:

static PyObject * Py_Convolve1d(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject   *okernel,...;
    PyArrayObject *kernel = NULL;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO|O", &okernel, ...)) {
        PyErr_Format(_convolveError,
                    "Convolve1d: Invalid parameters.");
        goto error;
    }
    kernel  = NA_IoArray(okernel, tFloat64, C_ARRAY);
    if (!kernel...) {
        PyErr_Format( _convolveError, 
                 "Convolve1d: error converting array inputs.");
        goto error;
    }

    ...more stuff...

    Py_XDECREF(kernel)
    return the result
error:
    Py_XDECREF(kernel)
    return NULL;
}

Notice that kernel was initialized to NULL, so Py_XDECREF will work in
all cases. Clean error-handling code like this is one of the few
places I use goto in C. You now have only two exits out of the
function, at the bottom, and so it's _much_ easier to keep track of
what needs to be DECREF'd.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 15:56:11 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:56:11 -0600
Subject: "The Python Robot" is going mad ?
In-Reply-To: <c3pv3g$2l0r$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
References: <c3pebc$2ghg$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
	<mailman.291.1080059607.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3pv3g$2l0r$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>
Message-ID: <16480.42091.110343.341483@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Robert> at http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/active/html/python.html I learned
    Robert> the robot "The Python Robot" is maintained by www.python.org.

Like amk said, "them ain't us".  (Well, he said it using a more cultured
Canadian dialect of English.)  If you can send the IP address(es) it's
coming from, one of us python.org webmaster types can almost certainly
confirm that it's not coming from any of the python.org or python.net
machines.  To shorten your search, here are the IP addresses I know of:

    www.python.org (aka fang.python.org)        194.109.137.226
    creosote.python.org                         213.84.134.214
    mail.python.org                             12.155.117.29
    www.python.net (aka starship.python.net)    217.160.219.194

Skip



From katximan at gmx.net  Mon Mar 15 13:08:38 2004
From: katximan at gmx.net (Asier)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 10:08:38 -0800
Subject: fox 1.2.x and FXPy
Message-ID: <4e1cc86c.0403151008.669e2e45@posting.google.com>

Is there any plan to make bindings of the future fox toolkit 1.2.x for
python? New widgets, antialiased fonts and so on is a "Good Thing".

GTK is a pain, wxpython is horribly slow, and tkinter doesn't have
good look and widgets are too basic.

The bindings in http://fxpy.sf.net are very old and python 2.3 isn't
supported.
If you need bindings for linux it compiles without problems, but under
Windows+VC6 I've had lots of problems, so after a lot of tries I've
compiled the bindings of fox 1.0.51 for windows with jpeg+png+zlib
support, with the mingw32 (gcc 3.3.1) suite (uffs!!!) for python
2.3.x.

It seems to work reasonably well. If anyone is interested in the
package I can e-mail it (tar.bz2, weights about 2MB)

I've tried the tnfox bindings but they are very slow and need some
non-standard libraries from msvc 7.1 and openssl.

--
Asier.


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 19:55:39 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 27 Mar 2004 16:55:39 -0800
Subject: Random Number
References: <a4648036.0403271156.787706e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0403271655.3b442599@posting.google.com>

talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair) wrote in message news:<a4648036.0403271156.787706e5 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi 
> I am generating a random number using
> random.randint(1,10000000000)
> Whats the possibility that the numbers generated will be same when
> generated by 100 users at the same time?

The probability that all 100 numbers will be the same is 1e-1000.  But
you probably wanted the probability that *any* two numbers will be the
same, which is approximately 4.95e-07, or about 1 in 2 million.

> Whats the best method to generate random numbers so that they are most
> likely unique??

If the probability of collisions is low, use:

def UniqueRandom(a, b):
   "Generator for random integers between a and b, inclusive."
   alreadyUsedNumbers = sets.Set()
   while True:
      randomNumber = random.randint(a, b)
      if randomNumber not in alreadyUsedNumbers:
         alreadyUsedNumbers.add(randomNumber)
         yield randomNumber

If the probability of collisions is high, use:

def UniqueRandom(a, b):
   "Generator for random numbers between a and b, inclusive."
   sampleSpace = range(a, b + 1)
   random.shuffle(sampleSpace)
   return iter(sampleSpace)


From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Mon Mar 15 19:39:32 2004
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert D. Young)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:39:32 -0800
Subject: Controlling .idlerc
Message-ID: <105cl2iju9b7j5a@corp.supernews.com>

Is there a way to tell IDLE where to put the .idlerc dir? Every time I start
IDLE using Python Win32 2.3.3, it puts a .idlerc dir in whatever dir I
happen to be in...

- Robert




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  5 23:19:10 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:19:10 -0600
Subject: securely overwrite files with Python
In-Reply-To: <c2bdnu$s49$1@news.island.liu.se>
References: <c2ap50$bii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <n18nh1-rv3.ln1@valpo.de>
	<2004030517425550073%bob@redivicom>
	<mailman.37.1078527293.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2bdnu$s49$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <16457.20798.273176.811105@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Thomas> A file system that moves around files when you overwrite them,
    Thomas> will only move the data blocks, not the inode.  The inode will
    Thomas> stay the same, and in the same position on the storage device.

Thanks.  It's been years since I looked at any file system structures.  I
was indeed confusing inodes and data blocks.

Skip




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Mar 10 08:18:53 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 10 Mar 2004 05:18:53 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xllm94p47.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403100518.d6c6094@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>> -1.sibling_package

> Ugh!

Yes. Ugh indeed.

> What's wrong with ../sibling_package

Module paths are not filesystem paths. Emulating filesystem paths -
and Unix-specific filesystem paths at that - as part of module paths
is misleading and undesirable IMO.

> or ../../uncle_package/cousin_package

This completely reinvents module paths as Unix-style filesystem paths,
with implications for cacheing the cousin_package module in the
uncle_package object and so on. Too big a change for my tastes.

I don't see anything wrong with a parent-package magic module name like
the suggested __pkg__. It changes existing module path syntax least so
could even be sort-of supported on Python <=2.3 using import hooks.

It's not as if packages are usually nested deeply enough that the few
extra characters of length really matter.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 03:43:28 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 6 Mar 2004 00:43:28 -0800
Subject: Reports
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403060043.269a096e@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am developing  web application.
I have my data stored in a database.Now I want to generate a bar chart
& other reports.How can I do it using python?


From fletcher at worldnet.att.net  Fri Mar 12 22:19:15 2004
From: fletcher at worldnet.att.net (elizabeth fletcher)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:19:15 GMT
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <T4v4c.11264$H44.200022@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Actually, I have the .pyd file (which I understand is basically a dll file)
and placed it in the DLL directory in the PYTHON23 directory.  In the
interactive window I type "import calldll" and I get an error (ImportError:
DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found)    I shoudn't if
the dll is installed correctly.....right?
"midtoad" <stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668 at pd7tw1no...
> elizabeth fletcher wrote:
>
> > Want to use Sam Rushing's calldll Python Module on a windows box.  I
don't
> > understand how to install it.  I have several books that do not detail
the
> > steps in installing a 3rd party module in Windows.  Anybody want to
throw
> > me life preserver?
>
> the installation process depends on whether you have source code or
binary.
>
> If it's source code, usually you unzip a package, then look for a file
> called setup.py and run:
> python setup.py build    (this step may not be required)
> and then
> python setup.py install
>
> Your module will go into PYTHONDIR / lib/site-packages/MODULE_NAME.
>
> if it's a binary dll file that you have, you just copy it into the
> folllowing directory:
> PYTHONDIR / DLLs.
>
> At least that's the general approach for Python2.3.
>
> cheers
> Stewart
>




From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Thu Mar 25 16:16:05 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:16:05 -0800
Subject: Globbing in List Search?
References: <4LGdndsGmLrdv__dRVn-tw@centurytel.net>
	<OeSdndZlc6cou__dRVn-gg@centurytel.net>
	<c3u1rt$sf5$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <C_ednWsP44OO0f7d4p2dnA@centurytel.net>

Your reply, particularly what's quoted below, was very helpful. Thank you.

- Ed Suominen

Peter Otten wrote:

>>>> def index(names, pattern):
> ...?????for?i,?n?in?enumerate(names):
> ...?????????????if?fnmatch.fnmatch(n,?pattern):
> ...?????????????????????return?i
> ...?????return?-1



From python at rcn.com  Fri Mar 19 16:21:32 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:21:32 -0500
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <20040319170506.GH1796@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <006001c40df8$270c8940$a0ba2c81@oemcomputer>

> Since the size of plaintext is only 2^53, can't I just calculate
> all 2^53 md5 values in advance, and invert the output of MD5Random to
> get MT outputs, then attack MT just like any LFSR?

Change the plaintext line to read:
        plaintxt = str(Random.getrandbits(self, 128))

Now, 128 bits of input space gets digested to 128 bits and then only 53
of those bits are used in to compute the float.  That should preclude
the formation of an inversion table.


Raymond Hettinger


P.S.  getrandbits(n) is new, C coded method in Py2.4 for acquiring bits
directly from the underlying generator without intermediate floats and
without losing threadsafety.





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Mar  4 10:33:57 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:33:57 -0500
Subject: vim & python
In-Reply-To: <221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
References: <221dd125.0403011151.504ce09d@posting.google.com>
	<221dd125.0403032332.d4282f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040304153357.GA5404@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

> > I have a bunch of questions about using python scripting in vim and
> > about editing python with vim.

> Thanks for all of the answers to the second question, but what about
> vim scripting with python? I can not find *anything* about it (no
> docs, books or tutorials)

Just do:

   :h python

in Vim, to get a compact, yet very usable description of Vim scripting
capabilities.  On my machine, this command displays the contents of:

   /usr/share/vim/vim62/doc/if_pyth.txt

You might have to recompile Vim with Python-enabled, if not already.  If
you visit the Vim site, you might search the scripts for those based on
Python extensibility, too.  I wrote one such script as an exercise (but
also to cover one of my needs), you might find it from my home page (see
my signature), picking "FP Etc.", then looking around for "Allout-Vim".

I use Python scripting of Vim very regularly, and it works wonderfully
for me.  I hope it will for you as well! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 14 22:25:26 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:25:26 +1300
Subject: How to add pairs to a dict, typo corrected in this one.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.304.1079081423.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.304.1079081423.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c337n7$23c2nl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Avik Ghose wrote:
> If you have a dict called phone_book, when you get a new name_value pair 
> say 'tom' you can do.
>  
> phone_book['tom'] = 33445511;

By the way, you may want to store your phone numbers
as strings rather than integers, just in case any
of them need to have leading zeroes...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From csgcsg39 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 03:17:33 2004
From: csgcsg39 at hotmail.com (C GIllespie)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:17:33 -0000
Subject: Parsing xml file using python
References: <14b36d18.0403041649.252d2e7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c29d2e$dg9$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>

> I need to read an XML document and ignore all XML tags and write only
> those between the tags to a text file.  In other words, if I have an
> XML document like so:
See
http://diveintopython.org/xml_processing/index.html

for a nice introduction

Colin




From ir4u4 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 03:56:03 2004
From: ir4u4 at yahoo.com (Equis Uno)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 00:56:03 -0800
Subject: pdb help...
Message-ID: <692feddd.0403080056.564a194a@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I read the documentation on pdb and comprehended about 20% of it.
Also I poked at google and found no answer to a question which 
must have been asked/answered a few times.

Suppose I have a module named

IamModule.py

How do I set a breakpoint at line 1 and step through the lines
of code?

I'm sorry for such a silly question but I've been dumbed down by
a Java IDE named IntelliJ.

There it is easy, I click to the left of an arbitrary line to set
my breakpoint and then I click on a greenBug to run code
up to the breakpoint.  Once it is stopped at the breakpoint I can
inspect various things.
Enough about Java.

Back to Python...
If I can just figure out how to set a breakpoint; I'll be set.

I know I'm supposed to use the breakpoint command.

I think maybe I'm loading my module wrong or something.

thanks,

-moi


From cedgmon at shaw.ca  Tue Mar  2 12:47:07 2004
From: cedgmon at shaw.ca (Craig Edgmon)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:47:07 -0800
Subject: A Simple Server to Capture Single Short Requests
Message-ID: <1078249626.12663.6.camel@shrek>

I am working through Steve Holdens book on Python Web Development and
this may seem like an obvious question, but my error states that
MyRequestHandler is not defined. Any ideas on this?

import SocketServer

class MyRequestHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        print "_____________________________"
        print "From: ", self.client_address
        print "_____________________________"
        input = self.request.recv(10240)
        print input.replace('\r', '')
        print "_____________________________"
        self.request.send("HTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n")
        self.request.send("Content-Type: text/html\n\n")
        self.request.send("<HTML><BODY><H2>Hello!</H2></BODY></HTML>")
        self.request.close()
        
    myServer = SocketServer.TCPServer(('', 8080), MyRequestHandler)
    myServer.handle_request()





From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar 10 19:08:30 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:08:30 -0000
Subject: How to simulate a TTY with popen2?
References: <c2o6pe$dn8$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <104vbfu5bl0ekda@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c2o6pe$dn8$1 at newshispeed.ch>,
Tiziano Bettio  <tbettio at transnorm.ch> wrote:
>Hi Everybody,
>
>I'm stuck trying to write a python module for the vlc videoplayer on 
>linux (http://www.videolan.org). I'm using the popen2 module to open a 
>pipe to the program. If I open the vlc player in a shell it recognizes 
>that I'm running it from a TTY.
>Same command with popen2-4 and the vlc doesn't seem to find a TTY so it 
>tries to open a gui and fails resulting in ending itself.
>
>So here's my question:
>Is there a way to open a pipe in python imitating a TTY or am I doing 
>something completely wrong?
>
>Greetz TC

Is Pexpect <URL: http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/ > exactly what you want?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From somebody at nowhere.com  Mon Mar  8 01:51:28 2004
From: somebody at nowhere.com (Sean Richards)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:51:28 +1300
Subject: Best way to run ipython inside of emacs shell?
References: <692feddd.0403072229.7d1d4675@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87r7w3vnkf.fsf@hugin.valhalla.net>

ir4u4 at yahoo.com (Equis Uno) writes:

> Hi,
>
> I just figured out how to run python inside of emacs:
>
> I use meta-x shell to start a shell and then once I see a shell
> prompt I enter the python command and I get a well-behaved python
> shell inside of emacs.
>
> I'm trying to figure out the best way to run ipython inside of emacs.
>
> When I run the ipython shell command inside of an emacs shell it
> does not act very clean (the prompt is messy looking).
>
> So I put two files in my /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/ dir:
>
> python-mode.el
> ipython.el
>
> I got both files from 
> http://ipython.scipy.org/
>
> I'm not sure what to do next.
>
> So far I've tried this:
>
> -run meta-x ipython while inside of a shell buffer
> -run meta-x ipython while inside of a shell buffer which is running ipython
> -run meta-x ipython while inside of a python-mode buffer
>
> All three of the above ideas obviously don't work.
>
> Please post some clues.
>
> thanks,
>
> -moi

I think you need to read this ...
http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/installation.html
and also read the commented section at the top of ipython.el

Sean

-- 
"Hver sin smak", sa vintapperen, han drakk mens de andre sloss.


From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid  Wed Mar 10 09:46:41 2004
From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid (leeg)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:46:41 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<c2j71h$ovl$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
	<omes40p89urcnnb7jm49vh30n5aga90mr4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2n9s3$e44$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 01:34:06 +0000, leeg
> <leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid> wrote:
> 
>>Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
>>
>><snip GOTO>
>>> 
>>> No stay away from computers until you understand how and why this is.
>>
>>*points at the Linux kernel source*
> 
> Examples of use are not proof that such use is a good thing.
> 
> More relevant here, kernal programming is not the kind of job that
> Python is designed for. What is justifiable in kernal programming is
> not necessarily justifiable for the kinds of applications that are
> written in Python. On similar principles, whats justifiable in the
> Python source code is not necessarily justifiable in, errrm, Python
> source code :-)
> 

Y2kyzfr1's statement was that GOTO is a bad thing and should never be used,
which is not a discussion of the lack or otherwise of a particular
statement in the Python language.  I agree that an example is not a good
advocation.  However in the case of the kernel source, if thousands of
people have looked at the code and not come up with a better way to do
whatever is done without a goto, then the goto method must have at least
*some* merit :-).

On the subject of kernel hacking and Python, why can't kernel programming be
considered in Python?  Because the reference implementation of the language
is interpreted[1], and interpreted slowly?  That's the case with Java too;
however people have written Java machines in software and in hardware that
are plenty fast enough to write whole operating systems in, and have goen
on to write whole operating systems in them.  The same could in principle
be done with Python, and Python is a language in which one could
principally write a whole operating system.  So why should that be
irrelevant in a discussion of Python?

[1]"Byte compilation" is a jargontastic way of saying tokenised, then
interpreted.
-- 
Graham Lee
I am leeg, for we are many
"An upsettingly large part of academia right now seems to be working on
bringing Java into the 1980s." - Avi Bryant
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wadh1342



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 09:37:50 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:37:50 -0000
Subject: Python / COM / Word
References: <mailman.224.1079947879.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3mtmn$p12$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>


"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.224.1079947879.742.python-list at python.org...
> DS> I'm having a little trouble trying to automate Word
> DS> (2002).  I'm hoping to be able to create and process
> DS> documents relatively independently of any existing open
> DS> Word documents.
> [...]
> DS> Ideally I'd like to have independent 'Word instances', so I
> DS> can hack around to my heart's content without jeopardising
> DS> documents opened and created by some hapless user (which
> DS> would also be me).
>
> I think this is what you want: (using Word2000, but I doubt it matters)
>
> <interpreter dump>
>
> ActivePython 2.2.3 Build 227 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, Nov 13 2003, 09:57:55) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import win32com.client
> >>> w1 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
> >>> w1.Visible = True
> >>> # (Word Appears; New Document; scribbles a bit...)
> ... w2 = win32com.client.DispatchEx ("Word.Application")
> >>> w2.Visible
> 0
> >>> w2.Visible = True
> >>> # (second Word appears; another New doc. First one still untouched)
> ...
> >>>
>
> </interpreter dump>
>
> TJG
>

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

Duncan




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Mar 26 19:35:26 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:35:26 -0500
Subject: Converting IBM Floats..Help..
References: <mailman.406.1080229247.742.python-list@python.org>
	<40641706$0$133$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <1069j3h2kb44909@news.supernews.com>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:40641706$0$133$3a628fcd at reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl...
> "Ian Sparks" <Ian.Sparks at etrials.com> wrote:
>
>
> Some time ago there was a question on this group about 4-byte IBM
> floats, and maybe questions about other formats will follow in the
> future. Here's a flexible -but possibly slow?- approach to handle
> these kind of problems. It uses a stream of bytes (a file for example)
> as input and returns a series of floats.

There are only the two legacy formats. More recent
IBM mainframes also support standard IEEE-488 floating
point, which should provide no difficulty whatsoever in
converting.

John Roth

> Anton





From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Wed Mar  3 11:26:08 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:26:08 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OA94_1078331159_ESRIMAIL_1 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124A12@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The attachment was quarantined from the message and replaced with a text
file informing the recipient of the action taken.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
noreply at python.org <noreply at python.org>

Sent:
462019840,29622585

Subject:
Notify about using the e-mail account.

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: TextDocument.zip
File: TextDocument.zip
Infected? Yes
Repaired? No
Blocked? No
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From ville at spammers.com  Fri Mar 12 04:56:16 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 12 Mar 2004 11:56:16 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<c24nh3$9it$1@camelot.ccs.neu.edu> <404675da@news.tce.com>
	<v523c.16993$rD5.2977@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<lo23c.34147$Ak2.10261275@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<1sw3c.20562$rD5.1087@twister.socal.rr.com>
	<40515E92.3080201@nospam.uci.edu>
	<405185f5$0$16368$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <du77jxqbd8f.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

    Peter> Josiah Carlson wrote:
    >> 3. Spend a month teaching her object orientation with C++.

    Peter> Perhaps Ruby for the OO stuff if you are familier with it. Less
    Peter> gotcha's than C++. All depends on the sort of person she is.

You missed Josiah's point (at least as I understood it) - the idea was
to show how painful programming can be, and then experience the
revelation of switching to Python. It's a standard practice in some
religious circles, where people are guided to wallow in remorse of
original sins and other unpleasant stuff, and then feel the relief of
divine forgiveness.

As a side note, Ruby has no OO advantages over Python. This has been
discussed in this newsgroup extensively.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar  3 16:13:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:13:09 -0500
Subject: MVC-type Framework in Python
References: <mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <104cilt3l9kgv0b@news.supernews.com>

"Andreas Pauley" <python-list at qbcon.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6.1078342287.736.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in finding a nice way to develop applications that have
> their business logic separated from the user interface (among other
> things). This should enable easier maintenance, more flexibility and
> (ideally) less development time for the app.
>
> I've recently read about the Model-View-Controller design framework
> (originally used in SmallTalk applications, or so it seems).
> What python-specific tools/frameworks would you recommend that can be used
> to implement MVC, or something similar (or perhaps better) than MVC?
>
> I'm looking for something that can help build
> interface-independent applications, with all logic in a central place.
> There would typically be a GUI interface, character interface and
> web-based interface, all accessing the same python logic.
> The interfaces need not be python-specific. I would like, for example, to
> have an existing PHP website access the same logic.
>
> Another thing that would be nice is centralized validation.
> If you change your validation rules in one place, the interfaces get to
> know that without you having to change code on the interface.
> Is it feasible to have python extract validation rules from the database
> (e.g. a varchar(20) field) and pass that through to a gui interface that
> would limit the amount of characters entered to 20? If you then change the
> database field to a varchar(30), the change should be
> detected without having to change any other code.
>
> At the moment I'm just researching all of the different options for
> designing/implementing applications (typically multi-user database-driven
> apps), so I would appreciate any ideas. I assume some ideas have proven
> themselves more feasible in production environments than others.

Well, first off every toolkit "supports" MVC in the sense that you
can do that pattern without an inordinate amount of pain or bending
the toolkit in ways it doesn't want to go.

What you want, though, is something a little different. You want a
layered architecture where you can install different UI front ends.
The best way I know of doing this is to create an abstract UI, and
then make each of the front ends a very thin facade on that UI. It's
an interesting design problem, especially since the typical user of each
of the UI's probably has different needs.

Part of the utility of the abstract UI is that you can write FIT fixtures
that will work with it directly so that you can test out the basic
application logic from the UI perspective without having to mess with
the last step of dealing with the screen rendering.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Andreas.
>
>




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  5 09:57:02 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:57:02 +0000
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01>
	<s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com>
	<4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com>
	<22af40pkcecubm2o76a7g6aknj89rq1psu@4ax.com>
	<0370d5ccac8adfc1054d7802ef3e0ba0@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <k23h409d2tl600cjovddd41hsq1im48sc6@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:35:01 GMT, Dang Griffith
<noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote:

>I understand your idea.  However, the difference between a statement
>and a function is exactly my point, and I see it as relevant--if any
>language change is to come from this discussion.  New functions can be
>added via modules, and do not require changes to the language itself.
>New statements require changes to the language itself, which is what
>the OP is asking for.  
>
>The [in]ability to define "custom shortcuts", with regards to
>statements, is especially relevant because Python doesn't support it.
>Other languages do (Ruby?  et al), so someone thinks it's relevant.
>It's relevant because if Python *did* support it, this thread wouldn't
>be happening.  (Or at least would have ended after someone 
>replied with "oh, just do XYZZY to make a printraw statement".)

OK - sorry I didn't get that.

I suspect that advocating the ability to define custom statements
would be a serious uphill battle. While it allows things to be written
in a different syntax, it doesn't allow for any semantics that aren't
already supportable through functions.

I do see the attraction, though.

I wonder what would be the implications if the brackets for functions
were made optional when the function is used as a statement (in the
sense of not being within an expression, so that the return value will
be discarded). That is...

  printraw (a, b, c, d)         #  'printraw' used as normal function
  print raw (a, b, c, d)        #  'raw' used as normal function


  printraw a, b, c, d           #  legal - brackets optional

  print raw a, b, c, d          #  illegal - brackets required for
                                #  'raw' as it is used in an
                                #  expression

There is the obvious ambiguity - the parser doesn't know whether you
intend a single tuple argument with the no-brackets form or a
conventional list of parameters in brackets. The obvious workaround is
simply to assume a conventional parameter list until proven otherwise,
requiring that when tuple parameters are used the programmer must
resolve the ambiguity (e.g. by reverting back to normal function
syntax). Alternatively, simply ban tuple displays from being used in
bracket-free function calls completely.

Either way, I suspect that there is too much potential for surprises.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Sun Mar  7 13:02:17 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 07 Mar 2004 18:02:17 GMT
Subject: machine control script ( parameterless method? )
References: <340a6b1b6f65b385490e5d818b2b6c9e@news.scbiz.com>
	<20040306123424.20326.00000892@mb-m04.aol.com>
	<404a1dcd$1_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>
Message-ID: <404b63a7$0$295$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 simon place <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
[snip]
> that's why the question is actually only about 
> getting rid of the brackets.
If the action is a property, simply writing someobject.someobject can
trigger a get method  whithout the brackets.

Regards.


From news2 at mystrobl.de  Fri Mar  5 18:56:34 2004
From: news2 at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:56:34 +0100
Subject: wxpython appearance differs after py2exe
References: <RqCdnevJ25umndTdRVn_vA@news.rockefeller.edu>
Message-ID: <jm3i40t9ogp42764pgtevceh89rpfkrnfc@4ax.com>

Chad Haynes <haynesc at rockefeller.edu>:

>Hello,
>
>I have a wxPython application that I want to create an executable from. 
>  Using py2exe produces a program that works very well, but the 
>appearance is slightly different than when it was run from the command 
>line.  The py2exe version is a little more bland.  Here are links to 
>some screenshots:
>
>http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/dos.jpg
>http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/chaynes/py2exe.jpg
>
>I'm runnin winXP, any ideas?

I guess your program somehow lost its ability to use the current
version of ComCtl32.dll. The visual style of the Windows XP controls is
implemented in comctl32.dll version 6, which is not distributable.  I
just noticed that there is a python.exe.manifest and a
pythonw.exe.manifest in in the python23 distro. Perhaps it is
sufficient to copy one of these to your py2exe dist, renaming it to
<app>.exe.manifest, on the way.   Not having done anything with
comctl32 et al for years, I'm just guessing here from an article I've
read on MSDN. But I can't do any harm, so why not just trying it.


-- 
Thank you for observing all safety precautions


From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Mar 18 09:46:19 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:46:19 +0100
Subject: attributes of Python classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.127.1079618188.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <3064b51d.0403171605.75ec1ba0@posting.google.com><4058F086.490C215B@alcyone.com><roy-2641A9.19463117032004@reader1.panix.com>	<c3bmf8$6b$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<mailman.127.1079618188.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3cclo$dba$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Terry Reedy a ?crit :
>>>I agree that initializing all attributes in __init__ is a good idea.
>>>Even if you initialize them to None and overwrite them in some other
>>>method before ever accessing the value, it's still a nice way to help
>>>soem future reader understand your class better.  If it's a good idea
> 
> to
> 
>>>have self-documenting code, I guess it's an even better idea to have
>>>executable comments :-)
> 
> 
> An alternative is to give attributes a default value of None as class
> attributes.  This avoid time and space overhead of doing same on per
> instance basis.  Instances only need instance-specific value when there is
> one.
> 
> class C:
>   a = None # what a is
>   b = None # what b is
> 
> Terry J. Reedy

Ya right but then the documentation will not be very clear. I was 
thinking of two version of my class. Let say A that does not initialize 
its variable because it will be done later by the file reader. And B 
that inherit A and initialize instance variables.

In the documentation it will be easier to understand which one to use.

Just ideas...
Yermat



From bogus at bogus.net  Sat Mar 20 10:22:43 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:22:43 -0600
Subject: parsing emails
References: <95aa1afa.0403200029.6859e390@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3hneo$5ov$1@news.gngidc.net>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0403200029.6859e390 at posting.google.com...
> I use Mozilla or Netscape, so my emails are stored in the nsmail
> directory
> or the Mozilla's equivalent. What's the simplest way to look at them
> and
> extract the mails with a given subject? In principle I could use a
> regular expression, but I bet there are better solutions already
> available.
> Second question: are Mozilla and Netscape compatible, i.e. are the
> emails stored with the same format and can I use the same extraction
> method on both?
>
> TIA,
>
>
>              Michele Simionato
Michele -

Python 2.3 introduced a new email package, that has an email.Parser module.
I've not used it myself, but it sounds worth looking into.

-- Paul




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Tue Mar 30 13:30:01 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 10:30:01 -0800
Subject: A couple of Python CGI questions
References: <9g8ac.65379$Bg.14309@fed1read03> <2z8ac.65499$Bg.26470@fed1read03>
	<oE8ac.65528$Bg.35414@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403301030.29a247fb@posting.google.com>

"sean" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote:

> userid = form.getfirst("userid")

Yes, this the the most convenient way of using FieldStorage, in Python 2.2 upwards.

> can I collect post variables in the same fashion?

Yes. In a POST request, name/value pairs are read from the body; any
pairs in a query string are ignored.

> Is there any way to access variables from within a string like perl cgi?

Sort of. The basic substitution mechanism is:

  '<el> Hello %s %s! </el>' % (cgi.escape(title), cgi.escape(person.name))

Or you can use named substitutions by using a dictionary:

  '<el> Hello %(title)s %(name)s! </el>' % {
    'title': cgi.escape(title), 'name ': cgi.escape(name)
  }

And you can get a dictionary containing local variables using locals():

  t= cgi.escape(title)
  n= cgi.escape(name)
  '<el> Hello %(t)s %(n)s! </el>' % locals()

This is as far as Python goes, but there are of course a million templating
languages that take things up from there and which are a sensible choice
for anything more complicated. [insert standard PXTL plug here. ed.]

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From devnull at example.com  Wed Mar 31 21:10:07 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:10:07 +0800
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<106lsh9h08hbrfa@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406b79a8$0$16587$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

>> I'm coming to Tkinter from Tcl/Tk. In Tcl I can get a variable in an
>> event using the %<X> substitution mechanism. For example, I can set up a
>> command like:
>>
>>  entry .e -validate 1 -vcmd "checkkey %d"
>>
>> knowing that the '%d' will be replaced by something useful - whether the
>> entry widget has recieved an insert or deletion in this case. The
>> checkkey procedure will recieve "insert", "delete" or whatever as its
>> first parameter.
>>
>> What is the Tkinter way of getting that %d value?
> 
> It's in the event object that's passed as the (only) parameter
> to your event handler. Everything you ever wanted to know
> about the event is an attribute.

The validate command doesn't get an event.

> There are a number of very good references to Tkinter on
> the first page of the Python Library Reference section on
> Tkinter. (That's section 16 in the Python 2.3 reference)

Indeed, but I couldn't find anything which answered this question.


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Mar 24 18:47:48 2004
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:47:48 -0800
Subject: sorting times
In-Reply-To: <4af8e6c7.0403241450.74350e21@posting.google.com>
References: <4af8e6c7.0403241450.74350e21@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200403241547.48519.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Wednesday 24 March 2004 02:50 pm, Matt wrote:
>
> Results:
> File: two columns, <str>\t<float>,
> pow(10, 5) lines in file.
>
> Bubble Sort takes 32 - 35 minutes
> Quick Sort takes 8 seconds

Yes, I think this is reasonable for sorting 100,000 items.  The bubble
sort really is that bad.  (As a *general* sorting algorithm -- there
are some highly specialized places where it performs rather well --
such as several graphics algorithms where only a few items are likely
to out of order by only a few places.)

Gary Herron





From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 11 18:44:36 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:44:36 -0700
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <s2vu409dio5vc9ndl81dcinteagrkpntf5@4ax.com>
	<c2pl7e$1hm$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3g31501dfsut81gboa43qu6bj7n37ffumr@4ax.com>
	<c2qiuk$rs7$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <i5t1501ljfh9qtks01o5gc5mtbc0looj8n@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:42:54 +0100, Peter Maas
<fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:

Peter Maas:
>>>- The advantage is also a disadvantage: a lowered barrier for
>>>  new semantics could bloat the language definition. Python's
>>>  strength is that it has *few* concepts that are usable in *many*
>>>  places. This could be compromised by your proposal.

David MacQuigg:
>> This is actually a separate issue.  Adding a few @ mods to selected
>> statements does not mean that users can add their own.

Peter Maas:
> I assumed that in my response but also GvR and the Python community
> can do too much with @.

I have enormous faith in GvR and the people working with him.  I can't
imagine them falling into the Perl trap (overuse of symbols in a
syntax).

-------

Peter Maas:
- Python is a readable language. lambda says "function literal",
  yield says "generator", @ just says "different". Python would
  be less readable if this notation would be adopted.

David MacQuigg:
Readability, in this case, is in the eye of the beholder.  'lambda' to
me says 'wavelength', which I know has nothing to do with programming.
I suspect many users are like me, not enough computer science
background to know that lambda means 'function literal'.

Peter Maas:
:-)) OK, of course I was talking about the semantics within the
language framework. Otherwise you could claim that def says deaf and
for says four ;-)

I really wasn't trying to be clever with words in telling you what
comes to my mind with 'lambda'.  Thinking back on my experience
learning Python, I can also say that this word, and the mystique
around "lambda calculus" also conveyed a subtle meaning of "complex",
or "advanced topic", which caused me to avoid lambdas for a few
months.  I took five years of calculus in college, and I still don't
see the connection between lambda functions and calculus.

Let's focus on users of Python, many of whom are technical
professionals, but not computer scientists.  All I'm saying is that
new keywords like lambda can have the opposite of the intended
simplifying effect.  They can make things *seem* more complex.  It all
depends on users perceptions and their background.

I was astonished to learn today that GvR himself called for the
deprecation of lambda, citing "confusing" as one of the reasons.
http://python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/4
This guy is a language genious, yet he still understands the ordinary
users perspective.  A *rare* combination.

-- Dave


From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Thu Mar  4 15:52:50 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:52:50 +0100
Subject: maximum element?
Message-ID: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>

What is the 'most pythonic' way of searching the largest element in a 
list/tuple?

My 'standard' idea is:

max = list[0]   # or -infinity, or whatever...
for i in list:
     if i > max:
         max = i

While this is ok, I somehow 'feel' there could be a more concise 
solution... :)



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Mar 17 09:24:49 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:24:49 -0500
Subject: Compare recursively objects
Message-ID: <LcZ5c.6697$kc2.157952@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Hi everyone,
	Is there a way to compare recursively two objects (compare their 
members recursively)?  I'm only interested in equality or non-equality 
(no need for lower-than...).

Thx and Regards,
Nicolas


From jcb at iteris.com  Sat Mar 13 16:28:26 2004
From: jcb at iteris.com (MetalOne)
Date: 13 Mar 2004 13:28:26 -0800
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<4050EAA3.9010807@wberry.org.x>
	<92c59a2c.0403122308.35513650@posting.google.com>
	<m2y8q4dgpw.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <92c59a2c.0403131328.54210c30@posting.google.com>

> It's that "resources acquired" part that messes people up.  I've
> seen it over and over and over again.  Memory leaks.  Dangling
> pointers.  Unrecoverable file handles.  Especially as functions
> that acquire lots of resources evolve over time and someone adds
> code to acquire another resource or detect another error condition
> and then doesn't find all the subsequent exit points.  It's less
> of an issue with languages with proper garbage collection, but it
> can be a real nightmare in (e.g.) C or assembler.  Unit tests that
> cover all possible resource leaks are difficult to construct
> correctly.  C++ partially addresses the problem with RIAA (if
> coders use it properly) and a hodgepodge of "smart" objects that
> do pseudo self-garbage collection.
> 
> A single exit point also gives me a fighting chance to add
> something to the logical end of a function, like setting the "I'm
> done" flag or logging the result.
> 
> If I know that my function only has one exit point, then it's also
> easier to add "let's see what this function is returning"
> debugging code, because I know exactly where to put it and where
> to look for it later when I want to take it out.  In some systems,
> the fact that a given function reaches its (single) exit point is
> extremely valuable information.
> 
> OTOH, I'm usually the first one to stand up at a design review and
> declare that some function or some method is too long or too
> complex and should be broken up *before* such problems occur.
> 
> And that all said, I agree that a bunch of pre-checks and a quick
> exit, BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, near the top of a function can
> make the rest of some functions much more clear.  Again, I've seen
> it a million times:  I'll add one more validation down here, but
> forget to release that memory we just acquired up there.
> 
Good points.
With resource acquistion, I was mainly thinking along the lines of

int file_compare(const char *filename1, const char *filename2)
{
    FILE *infile1 = fopen(filename1, "r");
    FILE *infile2 = fopen(filename2, "r");
    if (!infile1 || !infile2)
    {
        // error
        if (infile2)
            fclose(infile2);
        if (infile1)
            fclose(infile1);
        return FAILURE;
    }
    
    // compare files
    return SUCCESS
}

as opposed to

int file_compare(const char *filename1, const char *filename2)
{
    int result = SUCCESS;
    FILE *infile1 = fopen(filename1, "r");
    if (infile1)
    {
        FILE *infile2 = fopen(filename2, "r");
        if (infile2)
        {   
            // compare files
        }
        else
        {
            result = FAILURE;
        }
    }
    else
    {
        result = FAILURE;
    }
    if (infile2)
        fclose(infile2);
    if (infile1)
        fclose(infile1);
    return result;
}


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sat Mar 20 19:55:17 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:55:17 GMT
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <VJ57c.31167$fg7.4161@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
> Carl Banks wrote:
> 
>> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
>> 
>>>[Ed Cogburn]
>>>>I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.  I've googled
>>>>around some and read some programming language websites but I have yet
>>>>to find a language similar to Python that can be compiled to binary.
>>>>[...] Is there such a thing?
>>>
>>>What is your real need?  Why do you consider important to compile
>>>something to an executable binary?  The goal is executing a program
>>>written in Python, or Python-like language, isn't it?
>> 
>> I really don't think why he needs it is necessary to answer this
>> question: he stated what he wanted clearly enough.  And I would say
>> questioning his need for a complied language is quite presumptuous.
> 
> Presumptuous?  Hardly.  It's a very valid question to ask.

Asking for more information wasn't what bothered me.

It seemed to me that Pinard's reply (whether he intended it or not)
presumed that the OP didn't know what he was talking about, and was
misguided for even asking it.  I absolutely hate when people do that
to me, and take offense when it happens to others.  This case
especially bothered me because the OP was clearly knowledgable about
programming.

I'm not against asking for more information to give a better answer,
but just second guessing people and telling them they don't really
want what they're asking for (which is the impression I got from
Pinard's reply, whether he intended it or not) gets under my skin.


> By asking for "a compiled language like Python", Ed is making the common 
> mistake of specifying a solution without identifying what his 
> requirements are.  We are simply trying to identify what his real needs 
> are so that we can give him a useful answer,

No offense, but you appear to be presuming that simply answering the
question he asked wasn't useful to him.  <shrug>


> along the lines of, say, 
> "use py2exe for easier packaging" if that were his goal.
> 
> Also, although I don't think this is a problem Ed has, some people are 
> confused about interpreted versus compiled and such things.  It's just 
> possible that someone asking such a question has an incorrect 
> understanding of how programs work, and thus asked a "wrong question" 
> innocently.

I'm ok with that, and I'm all for helping people get their thinking
right.  I just don't like the "WE CAN'T HELP YOU UNLESS YOU TELL US
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO" attitude, when all the guy wants is a simple
answer to his question.

You know what?  I'd like to have a fast, compiled language that looks
like Python, too.



ok-rant-over-ly yr's

-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Mar 30 15:09:41 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:09:41 -0500
Subject: warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined
References: <c4bm6e$1uqj$2@news.riken.go.jp>
Message-ID: <qnk3c7q14hm.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Marc Schellens <m_schellens at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Including Python.h I got the following warining
>
> warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined
>
> in Python.h:
>
> #define _POSIX_C_SOURCE 200112L
>
> in features.h (included from string):
>
> # define _POSIX_C_SOURCE	199506L
>
> Is there a (potential) problem with this?

There's no problem, but to get rid of the warning, check that
"Python.h" is the _first_ thing included (before system headers, such
as "stdio.h").

_POSIX_C_SOURCE is something that's defined by the user to tell the
runtime what version of the POSIX standard to use. From the comments
at the top of my features.h :

/* These are defined by the user (or the compiler)
   to specify the desired environment:

   __STRICT_ANSI__      ISO Standard C.
   _ISOC99_SOURCE       Extensions to ISO C89 from ISO C99.
   _POSIX_SOURCE        IEEE Std 1003.1.
   _POSIX_C_SOURCE      If ==1, like _POSIX_SOURCE; if >=2 add IEEE Std 1003.2;
                        if >=199309L, add IEEE Std 1003.1b-1993;
                        if >=199506L, add IEEE Std 1003.1c-1995


-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 22 03:58:05 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Mar 2004 09:58:05 +0100
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Ed Cogburn <edcogburn at hotpop.com> writes:

> I'm just curious if such a beast exists out there.

That rather depends on what you mean by "Python-like".

This could mean any of:

- Has significant whitespace

- Defined by an open source implementation

- Dynamic

- Multi-paradigm

- Byte-code compiled

- Highly portable

- Simple, highly intuitive syntax

- Ugly inconsistent syntax

... and lots more.


Secondly, it also depends on what you mean by compilable.

Any language is compilable. Perhaps you are asking whether a language
meeting you requirements (whatever they be) already has an existing
implementation with a compiler. (Python does. Oh, you didn't mean
byte-compliation? ... well Python does have a binary compiler; it's
called psyco. It has quite a number of limitations, but it does
exist.)

Assuming that you really _do_ mean "compiling to native binary", it's
still not clear exactly what you mean by that. Do you mean "produce
stand-alone binary executables"? If so, then you should note at least
two things:

a) Creating stand-alone executables is _not_ a necessary condition for
   compilation to native binary.

b) Most "stand-alone binary executables" aren't stand-alone.

> without the advanced dynamic and OO features would still be
> interesting to me (indeed, it would really have to lose most of the
> dynamic characteristics in order to make it a compilable language,
> which is why we don't have compile-to-binary Python, right?).

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Languages in the Lisp family
have all the dynamicity of Python and then some, and have had native
compilers for over 2 decades. (I recommend looking at Common Lisp, if
you want to know more. Scheme would be another modern alternative, in
that family.)

> Is there such a thing?

No way to answer your question without a clearer statement of what
your question actually means.


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Mar  2 11:40:48 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:48 -0600
Subject: Modifying escape sequences in strings
References: <b4a8ffb6.0403020814.283e64d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <l_idnRTWU9qRJNndRVn-hg@comcast.com>

The problem is that the backslash (\) has special
meaning to Python.  It means that the next character
is escaped (has special meaning).

Try following:

x=x.replace("\\n","\n")

This works for me.

-Larry


"Thomas Philips" <tkpmep at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4a8ffb6.0403020814.283e64d6 at posting.google.com...
> I have been playing around with reading strings with embedded escape
> sequences from files both using readline() and codecs.open() and have
> a question.I create a file "test.txt" with exactly one line:
> 1\na\n\n2\n\n3
>
> I then open test.txt and then read it using readline():
> >>> input_file=file("test.txt")
> >>> x=input_file.readline()
>
> >>> x
> >>> 1\\na\\n\\n2\\n\\n3
> >>> print x
> >>> 1\na\n\n2\n\n3
>
> The readline has escaped the backslashes, so that they print
> correctly. I tried to replace the double backslashes with single
> backslashes to escape the "n"
> >>> x.replace("\\","\")
>
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
> >>>
>
> How can I replace the escaped backslash with a backslash? I realize
> that I can solve the problem by reading the file using
> codecs.open("test.txt","r","string_escape") as suggested by Peter
> Otten. I'm trying to do the same thing in different ways to better
> understand Python
>
> Sincerely
> Thomas Philips




From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  3 20:26:42 2004
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:26:42 -0500
Subject: testing - please ignore
Message-ID: <1078363602.7636.148.camel@anthem.wooz.org>

This is a test message, please ignore.

-Barry





From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 02:56:13 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:56:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Okay Heres the problem: in Index
In-Reply-To: <c2mck1$4kn$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <20040310075613.56450.qmail@web60806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey Miki,
I have to do this for everyword that is occuring.
Its not that , that I have to do this only for the
word "syntax". How can I do this for every word. I
want a general solution that can work.
Any ones game for this?
Thanks A ton though,
Dont

> > 1. The numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, that are in the output
> of
> > the vector.py are the corresponding position of
> the
> > words in the email_message, that I ran against the
> > dictionary_index. I want the index of the
> > corresponding word in the dictionary. For example:
> If
> > "syntax" was occuring in the dictionary at 500. I
> want
> > the 500 syntax <value> instead of 6 syntax <value>
> > that I am getting right now.
> When you load the dictionary just remember the line
> of each "syntax" and 
> print it later.
> 
> --- *not tested* ---
> syntax = {}
> lines = {}
> for lnum, line in enumerate(open("dictionary.txt")):
>      val, syn = line.strip().split(":")
>      syntax[syn] = long(val)
>      lines[syn] = lnum
> ---
> 
> > 1 index value index value index value index value
> > index value
> I don't see the problem here.
> 
> HTH.
> Miki
> -- 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 12:02:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:02:06 -0600
Subject: PEP 318 - posting draft
Message-ID: <16480.28046.500125.309554@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Here's the current state of PEP 318.  I have to take a break from this to
get some real work done and may not get back to it in a major way for
awhile.  I received a significant rewrite of Kevin Smith's most recent
version from Jim Jewett and incorporated much of what he wrote, modifying a
lot of it along the way, but have still not digested everything he sent me.

I've tried to reflect the concensus which seems to be emerging on the
python-dev list, though I suspect I've done a poor job of that.  The
discussions there and on comp.lang.python have ranged far and wide and thus
resist summary in a finite amount of time.  I recommend interested
comp.lang.python readers spend some time in the python-dev archives for
February and March if they find major fault with the current state of the
proposal.

If you post corrections or comments to either list I should see them.

Skip Montanaro

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEP: 318
Title: Function/Method Decorator Syntax
Version: $Revision: 1.5 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/03/23 16:41:17 $
Author: Kevin D. Smith <Kevin.Smith at theMorgue.org>, 
        Jim Jewett <jimjjewett at users.sourceforge.net>,
        Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 05-Jun-2003
Python-Version: 2.4
Post-History: 09-Jun-2003, 10-Jun-2003, 27-Feb-2004, 23-Mar-2004


Abstract
========
    
The current method for declaring class and static methods is awkward 
and can lead to code that is difficult to understand.  Ideally, these 
transformations should be made at the same point in the code where the 
declaration itself is made.  This PEP introduces new syntax for 
transformations of a declaration.


Motivation
==========

The current method of applying a transformation to a function or
method places the actual translation after the function body.  For
large functions this separates a key component of the function's
behavior from the definition of the rest of the function's external
interface.  For example::

    def foo(self):
        perform method operation
    foo = classmethod(foo)

This becomes less readable with longer methods.  It also seems less
than pythonic to name the function three times for what is
conceptually a single declaration.  A solution to this problem is to
move the transformation of the method closer to the method's own
declaration.  While the new syntax is not yet final, the intent is to
replace::

    def foo(cls):
        pass
    foo = synchronized(lock)(foo)
    foo = classmethod(foo)

with an alternative that places the decoration in the function's
declaration::

    def foo(cls) using [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
        pass

Background
==========

There is general agreement that syntactic support is desirable to the
current state of affairs.  Guido mentioned `syntactic support for
decorators`_ in his DevDay keynote presentation at the `10th Python
Conference`_, though `he later said`_ it was only one of several
extensions he proposed there "semi-jokingly".  `Michael Hudson raised
the topic`_ on ``python-dev`` shortly after the conference,
attributing the bracketed syntax to an earlier proposal on
``comp.lang.python`` by `Gareth
McCaughan`_.

.. _syntactic support for decorators: http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/python10/py10keynote.pdf
.. _10th python conference: http://www.python.org/workshops/2002-02/
.. _michael hudson raised the topic: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-February/020005.html
.. _he later said: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-February/020017.html
.. _gareth mccaughan: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=slrna40k88.2h9o.Gareth.McCaughan%40g.local

Design Goals
============

The new syntax should

*  work for arbitrary wrappers, including user-defined callables and
   the existing builtins ``classmethod()`` and ``staticmethod``

*  work with multiple wrappers per definition

*  make it obvious what is happening; at the very least it should be 
   obvious that new users can safely ignore it when writing their own 
   code

*  not make future extensions more difficult

*  be easy to type;  programs that use it are expected to use it very 
   frequently

*  not make it more difficult to scan through code quickly.  It should 
   still be easy to search for all definitions, a particular 
   definition, or the arguments that a function accepts

*  not needlessly complicate secondary support tools such as
   language-sensitive editors and other "`toy parser tools out
   there`_"

.. _toy parser tools out there: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=mailman.1010809396.32158.python-list%40python.org

Proposed Syntax
===============

The currently proposed syntax is::

    def func(arg1, arg2, ...) [dec1, dec2, ...]:
        pass

The decorators are near the declaration of the function's API but are
clearly secondary.  The square brackets make it possible to fairly
easily break long lists of decorators across multiple lines.

Alternate Proposals
===================

A few other syntaxes have been proposed::

    def func(arg1, arg2, ...) as dec1, dec2, ...:
        pass

The absence of brackets makes it cumbersome to break long lists of
decorators across multiple lines.  The keyword "as" doesn't have the
same meaning as its use in the ``import`` statement.

::

    def [dec1, dec2, ...] func(arg1, arg2, ...):
        pass

This form has the disadvantage that the decorators become visually
higher priority than the function name and argument list.

::

    def func [dec1, dec2, ...] (arg1, arg2, ...):
        pass

Quixote's Page Template Language uses this form, but only supports a
single decorator chosen from a restricted set.  For short lists it
works okay, but for long list it separates the argument list from the
function name.

::

    using:
        dec1
        dec2
        ...
    def foo(arg1, arg2, ...):
        pass

The function definition is not nested within the using: block making
it impossible to tell which objects following the block will be
decorated.  Nesting the function definition within the using: block
suggests block structure that doesn't exist.  The name ``foo`` would
actually exist at the same scope as the using: block.  Finally, it
would require the introduction of a new keyword.

Current Implementation
======================

Michael Hudson has posted a `patch`_ at Starship, which implements the
proposed syntax and left-first application of decorators::

    def func(arg1, arg2, ...) [dec1, dec2]:
        pass

is equivalent to::

    def func(arg1, arg2, ...):
        pass
    func = dec2(dec1(func))

though without the intermediate creation of a variable named ``func``.

.. _patch: http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/meth-syntax-sugar.diff

Examples
========

Much of the discussion on ``comp.lang.python`` and the ``python-dev``
mailing list focuses on the use of the ``staticmethod()`` and
``classmethod()`` builtins.  This capability is much more powerful
than that.  This section presents some examples of use.

1. Define a function to be executed at exit.  Note that the function
   isn't actually "wrapped" in the usual sense.

::

    def onexit(f):
        import atexit
        atexit.register(f)
        return f

    def func() [onexit]:
        ...

2. Define a class with a singleton instance.  Note that once the class
   disappears enterprising programmers would have to be more creative
   to create more instances.  (From Shane Hathaway on ``python-dev``.)

::

    def singleton(cls):
        return cls()

    class MyClass [singleton]:
        ...

3. Decorate a function with release information.  (Based on an example
   posted by Anders Munch on ``python-dev``.)

::

    def release(**kwds):
        def decorate(f):
            for k in kwds:
                setattr(f, k, kwds[k])
            return f
        return decorate

    def classmethod(f) [release(versionadded="2.2",
                                author="Guido van Rossum")]:
        ...

4. Enforce function argument and return types.

::

    def accepts(*types):
        def check_accepts(f):
            def new_f(*args, **kwds):
                for (a, t) in zip(args, types):
                    assert isinstance(a, t), \
                           "arg %r does not match %s" % (a,t)
                return f(*args, **kwds)
            assert len(types) == f.func_code.co_argcount
            return new_f
        return check_accepts

    def returns(rtype):
        def check_returns(f):
            def new_f(*args, **kwds):
                result = f(*args, **kwds)
                assert isinstance(result, rtype), \
                       "return value %r does not match %s" % (result,rtype)
                return result
            return new_f
        return check_returns

    def func(arg1, arg2) [accepts(int, (int,float)),
                          returns((int,float))]:
        return arg1 * arg2

Of course, all these examples are possible today, though without the
syntactic support.

Possible Extensions
===================

The proposed syntax is general enough that it could be used on class
definitions as well::

    class foo(object) [dec1, dec2, ...]:
        class definition here

Use would likely be much less than function decorators.  The current
patch only implements function decorators.


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.



Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
sentence-end-double-space: t
fill-column: 70
End:




From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar 13 15:33:51 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:33:51 -0800
Subject: need optimizing help
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EE1@opus.amorhq.net>

rabbits77 wrote:
> I have a dictionary with a very very large(possibly millions) of
> key/value pairs.
> The key is a tuple that looks like (id,date)
> What is the fastest way to get out all of the values that match any
> key given that they individual key elements are coming from two
> seperate lists?
> The approach of
> for id in IDS:
>     for date in dates:
>         data=myDict[(id,date)]
> 
> seems to just take too long. Is there a speedier, more pythonic, way
> of doing this? Any help speeding this up would be much appreciated!!

If you're willing to handle some minor side-effects, one common approach
is an index layer via a nested dict; that is, instead of:

myDict[(id, date)] = value

...you execute:

myIndex.setdefault(id, {})[date] = value

You would then grab values via:

for id in IDS:
    bucket = myIndex[id]
    for date in dates:
        data = bucket[date]

The proof is in the pudding:


----indextest.py----

def flatdict():
    flat = {}
    for id in range(1000):
        for date in range(1000):
            flat[(id, date)] = 'notlob'
    return flat

def grab_flat(myDict):
    for id in range(475, 525):
        for date in range(990, 1000):
            data = myDict[(id, date)]

def indexdict():
    index = {}
    for id in range(1000):
        for date in range(1000):
            index.setdefault(id, {})[date] = 'notlob'
    return index

def grab_index(myDict):
    for id in range(475, 525):
        for date in range(990, 1000):
            data = myDict[id][date]


PythonWin 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) -
see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import timeit
>>> t1 = timeit.Timer("fd = i.flatdict()", "import indextest as i")
>>> t2 = timeit.Timer("idx = i.indexdict()", "import indextest as i")
>>> t3 = timeit.Timer("i.grab_flat(fd)", "import indextest as i; fd =
i.flatdict()")
>>> t4 = timeit.Timer("i.grab_index(idx)", "import indextest as i; idx =
i.indexdict()")
>>> t1.timeit(1)
15.798860190331453
>>> t2.timeit(1)
1.3386880176111617
>>> t3.timeit(1000)
0.5080377534016236
>>> t4.timeit(1000)
0.36944779294577756


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From jsbenson at bensonsystems.com  Sat Mar  6 16:29:53 2004
From: jsbenson at bensonsystems.com (John Benson)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:29:53 -0800
Subject: ELF object file analysis tool in Python?
Message-ID: <021c01c403c2$29e886e0$210110ac@jsbwxp3>

Thanks, but I'm looking to analyze an ELF file from a Tandem Himalaya
platform, but using Python on Windows XP. I'm hoping there's enough
standardization to the ELF format that I can pick it apart with an existing
tool regardless of the particular instruction set.


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:56:21 +0200
From: Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
Subject: Re: ELF object file analysis tool in Python?
To: python-list at python.org
Cc: python-list at python.org
Message-ID: <40458FA5.40807 at zoran.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Hello John,

> I already googled and only turned up some references dating from 2000.
> Anybody know of any current Python tool that can open up and dissect
> information from an ELF (Executable and Linking Format) object file? I
don't
> care about machine language stuff, but goodies like what sources were used
> in the compile, and what routines are used.

Just parse the output of `objdump -g'. Note that some compiler (such as
MSVC) save the debug information in a different file (.pdb).

HTH.
Miki







From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  3 12:14:36 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:14:36 -0600
Subject: Backing up objects in db file
In-Reply-To: <w5ad2xaolr.fsf@random-node.example.org>
References: <w5ad2xaolr.fsf@random-node.example.org>
Message-ID: <16454.4732.377651.814955@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Chris> I have a program that stores all its data as pickled objects
    Chris> inside a (berkeley) db file.

    Chris> Having been bitten a couple of times when the format changed
    Chris> across linux distribution upgrades, I'd like to write a simple
    Chris> program that dumps the objects to some kind of text format, which
    Chris> can then be reconstituted into objects later.  It can't just dump
    Chris> out the pickle format, because that could change between python
    Chris> versions.

Take a look at db2pickle.py and pickle2db.py in the Tools/scripts directory
of the source distribution.  I have no idea if they are included in the
Windows installer.  Here's the doc string from db2pickle.py:

  Synopsis: db2pickle.py [-h|-g|-b|-r|-a] dbfile [ picklefile ]

  Convert the database file given on the command line to a pickle
  representation.  The optional flags indicate the type of the database
  (hash, btree, recno).  The default is hash.  If a pickle file is named it
  is opened for write access (deleting any existing data).  If no pickle
  file is named, the pickle output is written to standard output.

Looking at that I can see I need to update the doc string.  The flags mean:

    -h - open as bsddb hash file
    -g - open as gdbm file
    -b - open as bsddb btree file
    -r - open as bsddb recno file
    -a - open using anydbm

Skip



From ark at acm.org  Mon Mar 29 12:12:42 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:12:42 GMT
Subject: No built-in swap function?
Message-ID: <eOY9c.34271$tY6.1012774@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

I am looking for the most effective way to exchange v[i] and v[j], and
expected to find something like

    v.swap(i, j)

but it doesn't seem to exist.  Is there anything better than

    v[i], v[j] = v[j], v[i]

(which I don't like particularly because it evaluates each of v[i] and v[j]
twice)?




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Mar 13 00:24:37 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:24:37 -0800
Subject: drowning newbie
References: <sPu4c.11179$H44.198956@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<PUu4c.39038$Up2.27668@pd7tw1no>
	<T4v4c.11264$H44.200022@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <10556om5sfgic0@corp.supernews.com>

elizabeth fletcher wrote:
> Actually, I have the .pyd file (which I understand is basically a dll
file)
> and placed it in the DLL directory in the PYTHON23 directory.  In the
> interactive window I type "import calldll" and I get an error
(ImportError:
> DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found)    I shoudn't if
> the dll is installed correctly.....right?

>From what I see on his site, Sam hasn't updated calldll.pyd in quite some
time. The version available for download is linked against Python 2.1 and
won't work with Python 2.3.

There's a great free tool for Windows called Dependency Walker that will
inspect any EXE or DLL file and show you all of the other DLLs that file
depends on. Running Dependency Walker on calldll.pyd showed a dependency on
PYTHON21.DLL.

http://www.dependencywalker.com/

So back to the original problem, which you didn't mention: What is it you
are trying to do? There may be other, more up to date approaches you could
look at.

-Mike




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar  8 19:11:07 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:11:07 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<miksh1-coa.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<roy-145DDE.21111407032004@reader2.panix.com>
	<vpbth1-drb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ESJTAls/KHYb089yn@the-wire.com>
	<nf2vh1-juf.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<donn-0DC2C9.14464908032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <glevh1-c9h.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I believe you'd be able to get the same benefit from goto -
> nearly identical solution, really.

Yes, break and continue of one or more levels can be written
using gotos.  'for' loops can be written using 'while'.

> Of course it can be used
> a lot of other ways, but you couldn't really argue that's a
> bad thing, given your position stated above.

I never did argue it is a bad thing.  I am not the OP.  The
OP has a problem with a lack of goto in Python, when what
they seemed to be trying to express was breaks and continues
out of multiple levels of nested loops.

I pointed out that instead of goto (which would require a new
language features) break/continue with labels or numbers
(which would require new language features) could be used
and they more clearly express what the programmer is trying
to do.  I was also showing that the current situation (introducing
variables, using exceptions) is an acceptable work around
but is just as error prone as break/continue.  goto is
less error prone, but is considered a bad thing for many
other reasons.

> I mean, either
> Python should incorporate all features that someone finds
> useful, and leave taste and judgement to the user, or it
> shouldn't.

That is a tautology.  Python has a set of features as determined
by BDFL influenced by the community.  It is very clear on helping
the programmer directly express what they mean.  That is why it
has 'for' loops even though 'while' would suffice.  That is why
it has multiple-inheritance although that is not necessary.  It
doesn't have a way of direclty expressing break/continue out of
multiple levels of nested loops.  The OP is used to expressing
that in C using goto.  Python people are used to introducing
extra variables and/or exceptions.  Other languages let you use
labelled or numbered break/continues.

I do believe some standard code pattern would be useful, based
on having needed to do it myself a non-trivial number of times
in my own code.  Other posters have also needed to do the same
as they came out with their ways of expressing it (although most
only showed break and not continue).

I don't actually care what the code pattern is.  Maybe it is
introducing gotos, or named/labelled break/continue, or the
status quo.

I am still stuck with Python 2.2 code.  Having this addressed
would be nice, but sadly it will be a few years before I could
use it.

Roger




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar 23 15:27:42 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:27:42 -0800
Subject: Can this be done with python?
In-Reply-To: <8ee9ed23.0403231007.5805e675@posting.google.com>
References: <8ee9ed23.0403231007.5805e675@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3q6pp$4jq$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I found out python may be a good language to learn for a beginner. I
> do wonder however if the following can be done in a created gui:
> 
> -have a button opening a 'open file' dialog, eg when I need a user to
> search for an image

Yeah, this is a standard dialog for most GUI toolkits that work with 
Python.  Check wxPython, tk, PyGTK and PyQT.


> -create a tree that can be adjusted by the user (eg adding a branch)

Of course.


> -the gui builders, can they create windows xp style I can skin with eg
> stylexp or another skinning program?

Don't know, never needed to.

  - Josiah


From mday at apple.com  Wed Mar 24 19:03:25 2004
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:03:25 -0800
Subject: State of Python scripting on Mac OS X?
References: <BC8786FC.F36%franga@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <240320041603254532%mday@apple.com>

In article <BC8786FC.F36%franga at shentel.net>, Francis Avila
<franga at shentel.net> wrote:

> I just got a Mac, and I want to script it using Python.

You ought to subscribe to the pythonmac list and ask again there.  See
<http://www.python.org/sigs/pythonmac-sig/>.

> Python needs an OSA scripting component to be an OSA-compliant language.

Having an OSA scripting component would allow you to substitute a
Pyhton-like syntax for the AppleScript syntax, and let them be used
interchangeably wherever an AppleScript script could be used (for
example, to attach to a menu item in an "attachable" application).  It
would make Python show up as a choice in Script Editor.

That would be incredibly powerful, but may be more than you really need.

If all you want to do is write Python scripts/applications that control
other applications, that's a much easier problem.  Python can access
the AppleEvent APIs so you can send AppleEvents to other applications
(to control them).  There are two people pretty actively working on
making AppleEvent scripting work more naturally with Python. 
Definitely ask on the pythonmac list.

-Mark


From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 07:35:52 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:35:52 +0100
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.183.1079791608.742.python-list@python.org>	<tyfr7vl6yxu.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.272.1080036399.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3pave$27ohpv$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ed Cogburn wrote:
> Or maybe its just 
> because I'm lazy and will fall in love with any lean, terse, yet 
> powerful language that comes along.  :) However, we all know that for 
> some applications/purposes, Python isn't fast enough.  

Hi, well, since you didn't mention psyco it probably should. Doesn't rid 
you of the interpreter (and you mention that below), but increases the 
speed by a fair amount. It enabled me to keep the "algorithmic" code in 
Python without having to drop to 'C' or Pyrex, gaining a speedup of 
about a factor 100. (This for a bayesian classifier). Though typical 
speedup is more on the order of 2-4 times.

> For me, ocaml is the
> real surprise, it scores the same as gcc (on the Linux side, see the 
> link below).  Its not Python-like, of course, but I'm surprised to see 
> any other language score as well as gcc on a *nix system (gcc being born 
> on *nix, being one of the oldest and most heavily used and beaten-on 
> languages, as well as being optimized to death).

Well, depends on what you mean by "Python like" (here we go again). I'd 
say that it has quite a number of features that are similar to the ones 
that attracted me to Python (from O'Caml incidentally). Such as; mostly 
functional but with imperative support integral to the language (doesn't 
feel it's been bolted on afterwards), support for object oriented 
programming, relatively small and straightforward to learn. Differences 
are that it has pattern matching (plus imho), a type inferring type 
system (a plus imho, but you can have different opinions on that), and 
the syntax (which I don't much care for to be honest). And a compiler 
that produces native code that's quite good (though there's also a 
bytecode interpreter). You might want to give it a spin, there are 
several short tutorials available, and a book online as well 
(http://www.ocaml.org).

If the type system upsets you, as it has a tendency to do to some, then 
Erlang might fit the bill. It's more similar to O'Caml than Python, but 
still shares (most of) the traits mentioned above, save for a dynamic 
type system. It's mostly a byte code language though, but there is a 
compiler (HiPE) included in the distribution. It's more akin to psyco 
than ocamlopt though. Industrial strength; at Ericsson we have several 
projects weighing in at a few million lines that outdo our competition. 
Has unique support for multi processing (loosely coupled) and fault 
tolerance. You might want to have a look: (http://www.erlang.org).

Now, since we're into 'functional' languages (and you confess to mostly 
being anoyed by the LISP syntax than anything else), let me plug Haskell 
also, even though we've now moved quite far away from Python. Purely 
functional, lazy evaluation, nice (interactive) compiler available 
(GHC), though performance perhaps isn't as easy to achive as with 
O'Caml. If you're interested there's more at http://www.haskell.org.

All these are freely avaliable (both as in gratis and libre; the latter 
more or less).

Whether you'd call 'Python like' is an open question. They don't fit all 
of your original criteria, though there are perhaps more similarities 
than first meets the eye.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson


From informlant at citenet.net  Mon Mar  1 13:10:00 2004
From: informlant at citenet.net (jeuxal_com)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:10:00 +0100
Subject: Minimal distro requirements for standalone python program....
Message-ID: <c20j3u$2qk7$1@cti15.citenet.net>

Hi,

I need to add a python program (web updater+extras) with a window
application.
The same thing as the Online Lord of the Ring game lotrtcg.decipher.com.
When you install their application, it create a subdirectory with very few
python files*.dll,*.pyd,*.pyc.:

_socket.pyd
_sre.pyd
_tkinter.pyd
(laucher.pyc)
(lotrotcglaucher.exe)
python22.dll
PyWinTypes22.dll
tcl83.dll
tk83.dll
win32api.pyd
xlib.pyd
_MEI\...

Context: I want to add some python capabilities to my application, but not
force the user to install the full python distro.
Questions:
    1- Are these files sufficient? (Too simple to be true!)
    2- Is their some registry/path entries do perform to setup a minimal
python runtime?

Other ideas, examples of how to do it in a simple way?

Thanks
AL




From wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 11 22:50:43 2004
From: wmwd2zz02 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:50:43 +1300
Subject: Newby Question: Python and A Nested Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <_G84c.1393$P45.950@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
References: <_G84c.1393$P45.950@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c2rc2l$1vtcg7$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

kbass wrote:
> I am new to Python and I am attempting to retrieve data from a database and
> I would like to place this data into a nested dictionary. After placing the
> data into a dictionary, I would like to loop through the data using for
> loops. How would I do this?

It's hard to say exactly how to go about building the dictionary
without knowing more about the format of the data and how you
want to structure it. Posting some sample data together with
the dict you want to build from it would help.

As for looping over the dictionaries, some general facts you
might find useful are:

    for key in dictionary:
       ...

will loop over all the keys in the dictionary.

    for value in dictionary.values():
       ...

will loop over the values (but you won't know what
their keys were).

    for key, value in dictionary.items():
       ...

will loop over all the key/value pairs in the dictionary.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar 30 17:27:33 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:27:33 +1000
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01536140@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Carl Banks
> 
> Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
> next line" wars.

    int main (void)
    {
        if (true)
        {
        }

        return 0;
    }

There is no other way.

Tim Delaney



From http  Tue Mar 23 18:17:45 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 15:17:45 -0800
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405ff7f4$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<bpq060ds2fj2uc01023ftk4a9a0jh1utht@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xisgvcfvq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> 	I could see government restrictions on what was allowed for
> encryption... Too strong, and the implementation can't be "exported" out
> of the US... Which puts you into the situation of having to
> create/control a US-legal package vs an export-legal package.

That problem went away about 5 years ago.  There are no more separate
domestic and export versions of Netscape or MSIE, for example.  There
appears to be concern about countries which aren't allowed to IMPORT
cryptographic programs.  Of course, those countries also aren't
allowed to import most current web browsers, so downloading from
python.org may be a little problematic for them.


From nwirth at myrealbox.com  Tue Mar  9 12:22:20 2004
From: nwirth at myrealbox.com (NWirth)
Date: 9 Mar 2004 09:22:20 -0800
Subject: Python scripting for GNumeric
Message-ID: <c0a3763a.0403090922.6499be97@posting.google.com>

I recommended two of my friends currently using Excel and VBA Gnumeric
as a replacement. It seems they are using a lot of VBA in conjunction
with Excel.

It might be possible to have them "cross the lines" and have them
using Gnumeric if they would have a powerfull scripting language they
could use along with Gnumeric to replace Excel and VBA.

Since I am not experienced neither with Gnumeric nor with Pythion, I
am posting my question here:

How mature is the above mentioned combination (Gnumeric & Python)
compared with Excel and VBA? Is it possible to run Gnumeric using
Python extensions on Windows?

Thank you for your time and effort replying to this post.

NWirth


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Mar 16 20:55:46 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:55:46 -0700
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
	<40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>
	<qnkhdwoieiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <abbf50l09jdtlup5mpnudi5pm6f4q7ku41@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:00:04 -0500, cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca
(David M. Cooke) wrote:

>Personally, almost all my uses of 'is' are of the form 'x is None' or
>'x is not None'.

Here are some more test results (averaging 10,000 evaluations in a
tight loop):

        time (sec)    %
Test 1: 3.68E-007   100.0 F is False
Test 2: 4.87E-007   132.1 F == False
Test 3: 3.71E-007   100.0 N is None
Test 4: 5.51E-007   148.6 N == None

The '== None' test is 49% slower than 'is None', but in absolute time,
the difference is only 180nec (on my new, but not top-speed PC).  So
it would take about 10 million of these comparisons in a short time to
make a noticable difference to the user.

I can't see where the 'is' test would *ever* be needed for the above
comparisons.

-- Dave



From ZZZ-ialbert-ZZZ at mailblocks-ZZZ.com-ZZZ  Fri Mar 12 13:53:56 2004
From: ZZZ-ialbert-ZZZ at mailblocks-ZZZ.com-ZZZ (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:53:56 -0500
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c2sqvt$jru$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <OqadnXX1Z4rYms_dRVn-jg@giganews.com>

Bart Nessux wrote:
> I have to place a root password into a Python script. Is there a way to
> encode it so that one can't read the password when viewing the file, but
> when the sting is used it's decoded? For example:
> 
> pass = "#$%^&@*#&*$^@"
> instead of:
> pass = "root-password"

Why do you need it decoded?

You could list the encrypted root
password and then if the input password
encrypts to the same thing then it means it was
a valid one.

i.




From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Thu Mar 18 21:45:29 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:45:29 +1100
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <mailman.67.1079492061.742.python-list@python.org>
	<Uo%5c.40111$H44.732208@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<38ec68a6.0403171642.7199763c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405A5EC9.6010503@yahoo.com.au>

Asun Friere wrote:

> In fact __eq__ can be redefined even /so as to be an equivalence
> relation/ such that x==y => True and x is y => False.  The
> 'fundamental properties' posisted, are simply not fundamental.

I think you have mis-read those fundamental properties. 
They were:

(1) If x and y refer to the same object, "x is y" 
yields True.

(2) If "x is y" yields True, "x==y" also yields True. 
Equivalently, if "x==y" yields False, "x is y" also 
yields False.

Property (2) assumes that __eq__ implements an 
equivalence relation.

Notice that your objection that x==y returns True and x 
is y returns False is *not* one of those properties. In 
fact, that is the normal behaviour:

 >>> a = [1, 2]
 >>> b = [1] + [2]
 >>> (a == b, a is b)
(1, 0)

I don't think the argument that one can redefine __eq__ 
to be something other than an equivalence relation is a 
particularly strong argument. I would call that a bug, 
even if it is a deliberate bug. If "==" doesn't do 
equality, then it is an exceedingly bad piece of design.

So, assuming no bugs in the code, if a is not equal to 
b then a is not the same object as b. On the other 
hand, if a is equal to b, a may or may not be the same 
object as b. And on the third hand, if a is the same 
object as b, then a and b must be equal.



-- 
Steven D'Aprano



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 02:14:32 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:14:32 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<c4am81$2ha0mj$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <779ac.68717$cx5.51149@fed1read04>

> Stackless-type systems tend to make this rather more convoluted than just
making a C function call.

I define a function call as:

call_func(ist, self, func_sym,  parm_cnt, lbl_val_arr, dyn_locals);

This call is the same for interpreted Prothon or internal C code.  It has
the self object, the symbol telling the function name, and the passed
parameters.  ist is a struct passed around everywhere to keep interpreter
state and keep things re-entrant.  dyn_locals is used for dynamic local
compatilility in C (which has never been used and may be pulled).
lbl_val_arr is a C array (length of parm_cnt) of object pairs of labels (sym
objects) and value objects.  The labels allow one to do func(x=value).
Usually, internally the labels are NULL.  This structure supports
func(*list, **dict) even internally.

You may call this convoluted if you wish.


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c4am81$2ha0mj$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> >>But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
> >>on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
> >
> > I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you mean
the
> > garbage colector?
>
> A running Python program creates and discards certain kinds
> of objects (e.g. integers, tuples, stack frames) at a very
> high rate. Due to reference counting, the fact that these
> objects have been discarded is discovered very quickly, and
> their memory released. Subsequent allocations are likely to
> re-use the same memory, which is likely to be in cache.
>
> A pure mark-and-sweep system, on the other hand, tends to
> keep on allocating fresh memory and letting the garbage
> objects pile up until there is no more fresh memory, only
> then pausing to reclaim the garbage. This is a very bad
> access pattern for cache purposes.
>
> Back when the addition of a mark-and-sweep collector to
> Python was being debated, this argument was put forward as
> a reason why replacing reference counting with mark-and-sweep
> wouldn't obviously be an improvement, and could make things
> worse.
>
> Python currently has both reference counting *and* mark
> and sweep, which sounds redundant, but the combination seems
> to work very well.
>
> > The interpreter supports C code calling Prothon code and vice versa.
>
> I don't doubt that it's possible, I was just wondering how
> easy it is. Stackless-type systems tend to make this rather
> more convoluted than just making a C function call. I'll take
> a look at the code some time and find out.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sat Mar 20 23:18:25 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:18:25 GMT
Subject: [OT] Compilable Python-like language?
References: <c3hj50$rpf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.188.1079798939.742.python-list@python.org>
	<K117c.41070$8G2.27398@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
	<ctGdnYQQp4SWV8HdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<105plk0tk9qk73b@news.supernews.com>
	<r9ednfyHeOOfksDdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <lI87c.28235$P45.10375@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
> John Roth wrote:
> 
>> Actually, I believe he did specify what he wanted it for. He said,
>> and I'm quoting from is message:
>> 
>> [quote]
> [snip quote]
>> [end quote]
>> 
>> The key phrase here is
>> 
>> "just uses Python's basic syntax characteristics (no end-of-statement 
> > markers, use indentation to denote
>> code blocks, less verbose syntax overall, etc) without the advanced dynamic
>> and OO features would still be interesting to me"
>> 
>> I certainly think that is clear enough. He wants a compiled language
>> that has some of Python's ease of use features. Is that so hard to
>> understand?
> 
> Yes, it is.  Compiling something is not only an ambiguous concept (Java 
> is compiled, but generally runs only on virtual machines and so does not 
> have some of the benefits of languages which are compiled to native 
> machine code), but does not have *inherent* benefits.

On an abstract level, this is true.  On a practical level, when
someone asks for, or refers to, a language that "compiles to binary"
(OP's exact words), we know what he's referring to.


[snip]
> Without any idea whether Ed wanted improved *packaging*, or 
> *performance*, or something else (an academic exercise?), it isn't 
> possible to provide a useful answer.

I highly disagree.

If he's smart enough to decide that the type of language he asked for
is best for his needs, then a simple "yes, here it is" or "sorry,
there isn't" would be useful to him.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar 23 07:37:11 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:37:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: latin 1 in curses?
Message-ID: <slrnc60brn.1hr.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

I'm playing around with curses, and have had some problems with
that... For example, I can't make colours work in Python, although
several other curses-based programs use colours on my box. (ncurses, I
suppose -- and some maybe slang?) Does Python use ncurses now -- or?

But the colours aren't that important. More important is my inability
to get latin 1 characters to work in Textpad objects. (I can't get the
page up/down and backspace characters to work properly either; and not
only in Textpad editing.)

Is there some locale stuff I need to be setting? Some manual handling?
Is there a limitation in the library? Does this depend on the curses
implementation I'm using? Would I be better off with some packages
such as py-ncurses? (Or even writing in C and embedding Python?)

Any advice appreciated.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland           "The mind is not a vessel to be filled,
http://hetland.org            but a fire to be lighted."  [Plutarch]


From elmlish at netscape.net  Wed Mar  3 13:24:58 2004
From: elmlish at netscape.net (elmlish)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:24:58 GMT
Subject: Efficiently test for positive re.match then use the result?
Message-ID: <20040303102526934-0800@news.qwest.net>

Hello all,

I'm currently befuddled as to how to efficiently test for a positive re.
match then use the results of that match in a function.

Mostly what I've seen people do is to first test for the match, and then 
try matching again to get the results.  This would seem to be pretty 
inefficient to me.

I've tried making the match, then sending it to a variable, then testing 
if the variable is good and then finally using it, but this still seems 
overkill.

I'm also trying to use this in list comprehensions, mostly because they 
are kind of fun.  What I've got right now looks something like this.


>>> alist = ['boo','hoo','choo']
>>> [re.match('choo',line) for line in calist if re.match('choo',line)]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x11e218>]

This is a small test, but what I will be looking for various matches in 
is a large special purpose text file.

Does anyone have input on how something like this _should_ be done?
thanks,


-- 

~elmlish~


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 11:07:00 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:07:00 -0600
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <16480.24740.932094.590804@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> With no extension beyond the current PEP 318 proposal, you might
    >> postulate returns() and accepts() decorators:
    >> 
    >> def foo(x, y) [accepts(int, float), returns(int)]:
    >> ...
    >> 
    >> which extend foo() with code to enforce input and output types.
    >> Further, function attributes could be added which could be used by
    >> tools like pychecker for intermodule type checking.

    Joe> Not a big fan of that syntax - I have to keep the parameter names
    Joe> and types in sync by counting.

Here's a dummy example from the in-progress version of the PEP:

    def accepts(*types):
        def check_accepts(f):
            def new_f(*args, **kwds):
                for (a, t) in zip(args, types):
                    assert isinstance(a, t), \
                           "arg %r does not match %s" % (a,t)
                return f(*args, **kwds)
            assert len(types) == f.func_code.co_argcount
            return new_f
        return check_accepts

    def returns(type):
        def check_returns(f):
            def new_f(*args, **kwds):
                result = f(*args, **kwds)
                assert isinstance(result, type), \
                       "return value %r does not match %s" % (result,type)
                return result
            return new_f
        return check_returns

    def func1(arg1, arg2):
        return arg1 * arg2
    func1 = accepts(int, (int,float))(func1)
    func1 = returns((int,float))(func1)

    print func1(5, 3.0)
    print func1(5, 3)

    def func2(arg1, arg2):
        return str(arg1 * arg2)
    func2 = accepts(int, (int,float))(func2)
    func2 = returns((int,float))(func2)
    try:
        print func2(5, 3.0)
    except AssertionError, msg:
        print msg

    def func3(arg1, arg2, *rest, **kwds):
        r = arg1 + arg2
        print "r:", r
        print "rest:", rest
        print "kwds:", kwds
        if 'result' in kwds:
            return kwds['result']
        return r
    func3 = accepts(int, int)(func3)
    func3 = returns(int)(func3)

    print func3(3,5,'a','b','c',other="47")
    print func3(3,5,'a','b','c',result=47)

Note that check_accepts() does the counting for you.  If you wanted type
declarations in the language I agree it would be more natural for the
arguments and their types to be side-by-side, but then it wouldn't be
Python. ;-)

    Joe> For decorators in general, I like

    Joe>     def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:
    
    Joe> You get an explicit list syntax, but it's set off by a keyword so
    Joe> they don't run together to the eye.  Because the keyword keeps it
    Joe> unambiguous, you could even allow a tuple instead of a list: "def
    Joe> foo() as (x, y, z)".

I don't understand how

    def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:

is somehow less ambiguous than

    def foo() [decor1, decor2, decor3]:

The language parser certainly wouldn't care.

    Joe> So I definitely favour a keyword, but perhaps "as" is to generic.
    Joe> What about "has" or "with"?

I don't think any keyword adds enough to make it preferable over just a
bracketed sequence of decorators.  Python supports:

    import foo as f

The use of "as" makes perfect sense in that context.

I'd prefer prepositional keywords actually be consistent with their English
usage.  It's just line noise and is likely to provide some stumbling block
of programmers whose command of the English language is not stellar.  What
we really would say in English is

    Define function foo taking no arguments as modified by decor1, decor2
    and decor3.

No single preposition is going to read correctly as a replacement for "as
modified by", nor do we need all those other bits of English ("function",
"taking no arguments") to tell us that this is a Python function definition.
This isn't SQL or COBOL, and it's certainly not English.  My vote is to
dispense with the pseudo-keyword idea altogether.

Skip




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar  5 00:47:35 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:47:35 -0500
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de><1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net><40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de><Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95><c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu><17O0c.432676$I06.4900877@attbi_s01><s9g9409gh2okfcvbsfgqksvo145p58l752@4ax.com><4119c4e0d1dd457d3637e1316d5513ac@news.teranews.com><f0oe40hujm0rqcci2fgrhc445qgjs9anfe@4ax.com><Yx3RAls/KDUL089yn@the-wire.com><6ubf401c2qtarfoa36m03572dprj0h9kkl@4ax.com>
	<4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c2949n$9bn$1@sea.gmane.org>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:4pgf409lhtme32fb4gmdfdar8astq074jv at 4ax.com...
> Actually, I think this is rather ugly. The string 'method' still looks
> like a 'function'.  We really need a 'join' method that takes a list
> of strings as its 'front-door' object and the 'joiner' as its optional
> 'side-door' input.

A said in previous discussions, the second parameter of the join function
is *any* iterable of strings, and not just lists.  Your proposal would
either cripple or omit this generality, depending on whether you meant it
as a replacement of or redundant supplement to the current
joiner.join(iterable_of_strings) method.

Terry J. Reedy






From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Mar 12 10:17:20 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:17:20 -0500
Subject: loop scope
References: <f8k150pgq5ndk1q0s8s3vmgcusi7pl7b12@4ax.com>
	<f72250lafrh6ro6k1mpu2t89j8t5ur6cls@4ax.com>
	<kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ASdUAls/KTTV089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <kdg3505p3qj8t385htgcr88gkr3jceej98 at 4ax.com>,
Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:54:56 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
>wrote:
>>Scopes are defined by the boundaries of functions, classes and
>>modules, not for loops.  This is essential, or you would have to
>>declare global variables inside most for loops.
>
>I am not following this argument.  The surprise, specifically,  is
>that I don't think of myself as having declared "t" as a variable.  it
>is don't magically, as a placeholder and for a very specific purpose.
>So I would expect it to go away outside of the " [ " and " ] " by
>equal and opposite magic.

   Well, you don't declare variables in Python.  You use
names to refer to objects.  Python 2.4 may give each list
comprehension its own namespace, but for now names used in a
list comp. are used just as they would be in any other
statement.

        Regards.        Mel.


From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Mon Mar  8 21:27:33 2004
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 18:27:33 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a file
	is too slow?)
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>

process1_tuple = os.popen4("some code1")

process2_tuple = os.popen4("some code2")

----


What is fast way to send a message between process1 and process2??

process2 cannot just write to STDIN of process1  because he doesn't
have a reference to process1.  (process2 does not have process1_tuple)

------

The only way I could think to do this was to write and read from a file but this
is SLOW.

Is there another way **without using a file**??

Thanks!

Chris


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Mon Mar 22 07:36:30 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:36:30 GMT
Subject: Syntax of 'in' : searching a list for a string
References: <6d6b80e0.0403220202.356f62fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bed4ebb25d5e1a4ea5dc985dc2494c2c@news.teranews.com>

On 22 Mar 2004 02:02:51 -0800, robichon at esrf.fr (MarieR) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Sorry for my newbie question:
>
>I want to check whether the string 'Remove' is present in a list 'supportList',
>but if I do 
>
>if ('Remove') in supportList: 
>
>or 
>
>if 'Remove' in supportList:
>
>I get the error message
>
>'in ' requires character as left operand.
>
>Thanks in advance for your help,
>
>Marie
What perfect timing--the question right before yours asked which
version of Python added support for that syntax.  You need to be using
2.3 or newer to use the 'in' operator to search for a string in a
string.
    --dang


From amleczko at icpnet.pl  Sun Mar 14 18:59:45 2004
From: amleczko at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Mleczko)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:59:45 +0100
Subject: INTRANET zope
Message-ID: <c32rlm$akq$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>

Hi
I'm searching for an open-source, free Intranet solutions in Zope.




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 10:14:39 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:14:39 -0000
Subject: Python for email?
References: <SB49c.47641$Bg.20541@fed1read03>
	<mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106b6ivetpf0bc0@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.472.1080396882.742.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    sean> Is there a good module for sending out email?
>
>Check out smtplib in the standard library:
>
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-smtplib.html
>
>Skip
>

'Past time that I mention this:  I'm a big fan of the smtplib module.
In general, I think this is the direction Python-oriented developers 
should take, and NOT to "shell out" to sendmail or such.  However,
one benefit of sendmail and comparable MTAs that's often not immedi-
ately apparent (and, with any luck, won't be for the life of any
specific project) is their knowledge about retries.  Projects that
face erratic connectivity either need to exploit an installed MTA, 
or program their own retry management.

smtplib presents a few other, even more marginal issues.  If an
installed MTA enforces institutional standards (disclaimers, archi-
ving, ...), smtplib is likely to subvert those.  Decide for yourself
if that's a good or bad thing.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar  1 11:43:13 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:43:13 -0600
Subject: Concatenated numerical literals
References: <mailman.18.1078154586.22701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iMSdnQrFXI299d7dRVn-jQ@comcast.com>

I took a function that I wrote to format floats with
commas and currency symbol and hacked it a little to make
it work with your spaces.  You should be able to take it
and with little modifications make it work for you.

-Larry

def fmt_currency(amount):
    import types, string
    '''
    This function will take the number passed to it and format it as US
    Currency with floating $ sign, comma separators and two decimal places
    '''
    thousands_sep=" "
    currency="$"
    #
    # Check to see if I got a number or a string
    #
    if type(amount) == types.StringType:
        #
        # Check to see if I got an empty string, return $0.00
        #
        if amount == '': amount=0
        else: amount=string.atof(amount)

    temp="%.2f" % amount
    outstring=temp[len(temp)-4:]
    if len(temp)==4: return currency+outstring
    digits=list(temp[0:len(temp)-4])
    digits.reverse()
    #print digits
    cpos=1
    for c in digits:
        outstring=c+outstring
        cpos=cpos+1
        if cpos%3 == 0: outstring=thousands_sep+outstring
    #
    # Check to see if comma is first character of the formatted string
    # if it is strip it off.
    #
    if outstring.startswith(thousands_sep): outstring=outstring[1:]
    return currency+outstring

if __name__=="__main__":
    print fmt_currency(0.12)
    print fmt_currency(123.45)
    print fmt_currency(123456789.01)


"Per Erik Stendahl" <berra at psyket.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.18.1078154586.22701.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I wish I could write large integers (and floats, etc) like
> this in Python:
>
>      10 000 000
>
> Kind of the same way I can write string literals today.
> (As in 'This' 'is' 'one' 'string'.)
>
> Has there been any discussion on this? I find myself wishing
> for this at least once a week, since it really helps readability.
> It doesn't seem like a big implementation either.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Regards,
> Per Erik Stendahl,
> Uppsala, Sweden
>




From http  Tue Mar  9 17:44:40 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 14:44:40 -0800
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<ra4q401p3ld92uthl6l34u8vfqq39567n0@4ax.com>
	<c2jon0$gba$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xllm94p47.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> writes:
> from MODULE import NAMES as RENAME searching HOW
> import NAMES as RENAME from MODULE searching HOW

I like this.

> Or for backwards compatibility:
> from HOW.MODULE import NAMES as RENAME
> import HOW.MODULE.NAMES as RENAME

I don't see any need for this.  Backwards compatibility doesn't
require adding new stuff.  Just leave those forms the way they were.

> Where HOW is of the form:
> -<INTEGER>[.PACKAGE1[.PACKAGE2[...]]]

> for HOW:
> -1.sibling_package
> maps to ../sibling_package/MODULE.(py|pyc|pyo|pyd|so|dll)

> -2.uncle_package.cousin_package
> maps to ../../uncle_package/cousin_package/MODULE.(ext)


Ugh!  What's wrong with ../sibling_package or
../../uncle_package/cousin_package instead of the -1,-2 stuff?

> child_package.grandchild_package.great_grandchild_module
> maps to ./child_package/grandchild_package/great_grandchild_module.(ext)
> 
> I think such behavior is clear enough magical syntax, what do others think?

I think it's ok to use slashes.


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Mar  3 17:46:08 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:46:08 -0600
Subject: insertion in lists
References: <c25bjd$1ollgu$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <EICdnSSbO7Ot_dvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

l=[]
l.append([])

now l=[[]]  # That is this list contains a single empty list.

l.append([])

now l=[[],[]] # That is this list contains two empty lists.

l[0].append('a')

now l=[['a'],[]]

l[0].append('b')

now l=[['a','b'],[]]

l[0][0]='c'

now l=[['c'],'b'],[]]

You should be able to figure it out from here.

What is interesting is that your list can have arbitrary
elements that may be lists, strings, dictionaries, classes,
etc. and they don't have to have anything in common.

More complex example:

class x:
    pass

l=['test',{'key1':1,'key2':2}, 1.5, [1,2,3,5,6,7,8], x]

Has string at l[0]
Has dictionary at l[1]
Has float at l[2]
Has another list at l[3]
Has a class reference at l[4]

WARNING-Never use 'list' as a variable name (as you did
in your example) , it is a keyword and will get redefined
by the assignment (without warning).

-Larry


"Lupe" <luis_ at iname.com> wrote in message
news:c25bjd$1ollgu$1 at ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de...
> hi,
>
> I'm trying to have a kind of multi-dimensional list which seems to me to
be
> the best way to have an array of not known extension, at the begining of
> the program.
>
> if I have:
>         element
>
>         list [0]
> and want to have list[0][0]
>                  list[0][1]
>
> how can I insert the element to that list[0][0], for example?
> just to put things clearer, if I wanted to insert the element in list[0] I
> could do list.insert(0,element).
>
> I've tried list[0].insert(0,element) but gives me an error.
>
>
> Luis




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Mar 15 19:55:44 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:55:44 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40565090.81972BF2@alcyone.com>

Axel Boldt wrote:

> is there a rationale for the following behavior:

Yes:  It shouldn't matter to you what the implementation is doing.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.
    -- Nathan Hale


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Mar 28 06:49:51 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:49:51 GMT
Subject: Newbie Class Questions
References: <94CdnVqi7o8rn_vdRVn-vg@centurytel.net>
	<c46dp1$6be$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6dd9b.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c46dp1$6be$05$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten wrote:
> Ed Suominen wrote:
> 
>> I think it would be cool for my "AutoText" class (see below, hereby GPL'd)
>> to be able to tell what subclasses inherit from it and instantiate objects
>> for all of those subclasses to implement a "AutoAll" function.. Any ideas?

Actually, somebody pointed out in the other thread that Python has a
__subclasses__ function, so AutoAll can just do "for i in
AutoText.__subclasses__:".

Joe


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 23 17:00:02 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:00:02 -0000
Subject: Decent way to trace resource leaks?
References: <87r7vk7dnc.fsf@strauser.com>
Message-ID: <1061cr2sis3f7d5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <87r7vk7dnc.fsf at strauser.com>,
Kirk Strauser  <kirk at strauser.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I've written a fairly complex application [1] that runs under Windows XP
>with ActiveState Python.  I'm reasonably sure that I'm freeing all allocated
>resources, but my process seems grow slowly but steadily over time.  Worse,
>my network administrator seems to think that it's locking network resources
>and not freeing them, and while I don't *think* that's the case, I can't be
>certain.
>
>Ideally, I'd like to find a way to dump the process's object hierarchy to
>the screen or a file in a tree or graph format.  Even without variable
>names, it'd be tremendously helpful to see that there are 87 instances of
>Foo objects, each with 20 Bar objects as data members.  Although I'm running
>the application on Windows, I'm doing all development on a Linux system
>(using Subversion to synchronize source trees across machines, in case
>anyone is interested), so I'd prefer something native to Python and not a
>Windows-specific GUI debugger.
			.
			.
			.
This question interests me intensely--which is why I'm taking
so long to answer it.  I'd love to write a book on resource-
management techniques.

However, you need an answer now, and it probably won't serve
you even to wait for the well-crafted response I had in mind.
Let me put your progress in your own hands:  if you want "a
way to dump the process's object hierarchy", it's probably a
good time for you to read <URL:
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-inspect.html >.  Does
that give you what you need, for now?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From webbsoft2 at alltel.net  Sat Mar 20 23:29:54 2004
From: webbsoft2 at alltel.net (w)
Date: 20 Mar 2004 20:29:54 -0800
Subject: Timeout on a UDP Socket
Message-ID: <a1ff320f.0403202029.55bc8d5f@posting.google.com>

I'm having problems with this program hanging on the revc(buf).  I was
trying to figure out a way to allow the socket to timeout.  I'm have
tried making the socket non-blocking but had on luck.  Being very new
to Python,  could there be a better way to accomplish this task.  The
program works very well, but on occassion is will not receive the data
from the server and hang.

Thank,


# Client program

import os.path

from socket import *
from time import *

# Set the socket parameters
#host = "localhost"
host = "10.0.0.20"
port = 21567
buf = 1024
addr = (host,port)

# Create socket
UDPSock = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_DGRAM)

# Send messages
while(1):
     if not os.path.exists( "user1.inp" ) :
		sleep( 2 )
     else:
		print "opening....."
		print "reading....."
		in_file = open("user1.inp", "r")

		data = in_file.readline()
		#print in_line
		in_file.close()

		if(UDPSock.sendto(data,addr)):
			print "Sending message '",data,"'.....<done>"


		if os.path.exists( "user1.inp" ) :
		   os.remove( "user1.inp" )

		print "Waiting for Response..."

		# Receive messages
                data = UDPSock.recv(buf)
		print "\nReceived message '", data,"'"

		#output result message from server
		f=open( "user1.out", "w" )
		f.write( data )
		f.close()


# Close socket
UDPSock.close()


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 19:35:34 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:35:34 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <7xwu5g7a0i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<c3fcmn$r3f$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xwu5g7a0i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c3g3qd$kgp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>>What's Random.random(self) supposed to do?
>>
>>Generate a random number using the Mersenne Twister random number
>>generator.
> 
> According to the Random doc, Random.random() doesn't take an argument,
> so I'm asking what the "self" is for.

>>>But doesn't support all the operations specified in the Random API.
>>>What's up with that?
>>
>>That is what the subclass was for:
>> > class MD5Random(Random):
> 
> But the methods in the superclass don't do anything to manage the state
> of subclass instances.

Perhaps you should spend some more time learning how Python classes work.

Random is a class.
Random.random is an unbound class method.
Random.random(self) calls the unbound class method 'Random.random' with 
the first argument being the MD5Random instance.

You should satisfy yourself that the below is correct behavior for 
Python classes.

 >>> class A:
...     def blah(self):
...         print self.__class__
...
 >>> class B(A):
...     def blah(self):
...         print "I'm in B, calling A"
...         A.blah(self)
...
 >>> a = A()
 >>> a.blah()
__main__.A
 >>> b = B()
 >>> b.blah()
I'm in B, calling A
__main__.B

Can you figure out why the following is also correct?

 >>> class C:
...     def blah(self):
...         print "I'm in C, calling A"
...         A.blah(self)
...
 >>> c = C()
 >>> c.blah()
I'm in C, calling A
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in blah
TypeError: unbound method blah() must be called with A instance as first 
argument (got C instance instead)


Perhaps now you understand why he can use Random.random(self) in the 
earlier version, and Random.getrandbits(self, 128) in the current version.

  - Josiah


From garryknight at gmx.net  Tue Mar 16 15:29:11 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:29:11 +0000
Subject: new to programming: suggestion
References: <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1079468950.19949.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>

In message <3d5e65ea.0403152115.3df7e8c1 at posting.google.com>, pius wrote:

> i'm new in programming; i'd like to find a good programming book

There are some good online books at Andamooka and FreeTechBooks:
http://www.andamooka.org/
http://www.tcfb.com/freetechbooks/

Also, these are good books on programming with Python:
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
http://diveintopython.org/
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/
http://www.tcfb.com/freetechbooks/bookphyton.html

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Mar 11 16:14:40 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:14:40 +0100
Subject: Video module?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403111313480.29596@sampo.csc.fi>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403111313480.29596@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <20040311211440.GC6377@nl.linux.org>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:
> Is anybody aware of some good Python module for playing video (mpeg-2,
> mov, avi or similar)? I looked at pygame.movie, but it does not seem
> stable enough for my purposes. I have also tried using Windows Media
> Player with COM, but that is cumbersome. The module must work on Windows
> (and preferably on Linux as well). Basically, what I need to be able to
> do is play a selected interval of the movie and if possible also rip
> the sound track from the movie file as a WAV file.
> 
> Any ideas anybody?

The Pygame library, based on SDL (crossplatform), has got a Movie
module:

http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/pygame_movie.html
http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/Movie.html

it's not very sophisticated, but is able to .play(), .rewind(), .skip(),
etc.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 11/03 20:25 UTC:
	2.0?C   wind 2.7 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/



From deets_noospaam at web.de  Sun Mar  7 18:48:39 2004
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:48:39 +0100
Subject: ImportError when trying to import own C++ module
References: <mailman.103.1078696598.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2gccn$1mu$03$1@news.t-online.com>


> % nm BClass.so | grep _ZNK6AClass5valueEv
>          U _ZNK6AClass5valueEv
>

>From the nm manpage:

"U" The symbol is undefined.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Mar 30 02:41:02 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:41:02 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk><o59960pt4nirvqjea79so494rtevc6mt8e@4ax.com>	<95aa1afa.0403262049.4b2a6f78@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c48clk$2dt6vr$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<BrS9c.58293$cx5.57010@fed1read04>
	<c4am81$2ha0mj$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Zv9ac.69033$cx5.9713@fed1read04>

If you were designing a new interpreter, would you consider reference
counting an evil pain for C coders (as I did) and use some other GC, or do
you think I made a mistake?  Is there a compromise?


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c4am81$2ha0mj$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> >>But I wonder what effect the lack of reference counting has
> >>on cache-friendliness of the memory management system.
> >
> > I don't see how the lack of something could hurt the cache.  Do you mean
the
> > garbage colector?
>
> A running Python program creates and discards certain kinds
> of objects (e.g. integers, tuples, stack frames) at a very
> high rate. Due to reference counting, the fact that these
> objects have been discarded is discovered very quickly, and
> their memory released. Subsequent allocations are likely to
> re-use the same memory, which is likely to be in cache.
>
> A pure mark-and-sweep system, on the other hand, tends to
> keep on allocating fresh memory and letting the garbage
> objects pile up until there is no more fresh memory, only
> then pausing to reclaim the garbage. This is a very bad
> access pattern for cache purposes.
>
> Back when the addition of a mark-and-sweep collector to
> Python was being debated, this argument was put forward as
> a reason why replacing reference counting with mark-and-sweep
> wouldn't obviously be an improvement, and could make things
> worse.
>
> Python currently has both reference counting *and* mark
> and sweep, which sounds redundant, but the combination seems
> to work very well.
>
> > The interpreter supports C code calling Prothon code and vice versa.
>
> I don't doubt that it's possible, I was just wondering how
> easy it is. Stackless-type systems tend to make this rather
> more convoluted than just making a C function call. I'll take
> a look at the code some time and find out.
>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Mar 25 15:48:24 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:48:24 -0700
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<slrnc5vs8k.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<m8o160tec35glo6ruqhkd3tk15tk75una3@4ax.com>
	<n8l260homau3tr2v3r8n43klg3dk6l4pmu@4ax.com>
	<988460ht0bbbteu1ngq8sdrjm46ph8bjli@4ax.com>
	<a3m560hct5ria1cqn27noipmishfpbu8qf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pr766090m2v0i5t1108b92nbtk38u540l8@4ax.com>

[Stephen Horne]:
>>>Symbols (and worse, odd combinations of symbols where it's hard to
>>>tell which symbols are part of the same syntax rule and which are not)
>>>that you've not seen before tend not to suggest where in the manual to
>>>look.

[David MacQuigg]:
>>We need a single unique symbol, one that doesn't conflict with
>>existing syntax, and has no special meaning itself.  By using this
>>symbol for extensions of *many* statements, we minimize the amount of
>>new words or syntax users have to learn.

[Stephen Horne]:
>So each statement will only ever be extended once, and for one
>purpose?

[David MacQuigg]:
Using a symbol to introduce an extension doesn't mean we can't add
more extensions later.  If we extend the def statement now with
$(staticmethod), that does not mean we can't later add $(accepts(int,
int), returns(float)) If the concern is flexibility for future
extensions, I would think we should *avoid* keywords like 'as' which
tend to *limit* the options.  Note: The keywords in the $(...) phrase
are keywords *only* within this context, and do not limit the
extension as a whole.  Within this limited context, we can be as
descriptive as we want with each keyword.  A quick review of the
discussion on PEP 318 shows quite a collection already (staticmethod,
classmethod, onexit, singleton, accepts, returns, generator, ...).

[Stephen Horne]:
>>>If 'as' is too generic, then what about 'decorators'. That clearly
>>>states what follows and can easily be looked up, making the 'RTFM'
>>>attitude justifiable.

[David MacQuigg]:
>>"Decorators" is clear as to its meaning, but a little too long,
>>especially if it causes statments with multiple decorators to run over
>>one line.  It also limits the syntax to this one statement.  You would
>>not want to extend the syntax of a print statement, for example, with
>>decorators=(separator = ' ', terminator = '\n').

[Stephen Horne]:
>If it's a secondary syntax, learned late and rarely used, then a long,
>explicit keyword is just what is needed. You can look it up, of
>course, but it is far better for readability if you don't need to - if
>the explicit keyword is itself a sufficient reminder.

[David MacQuigg]:
The place for specific keywords is *inside* the general extension
syntax.  There we have no restrictions on how specific we can get.

[Stephen Horne]:
>After all, it's
>not just newbies that we should worry about - what about people like
>me, who use several languages and sometimes go months without using
>Python at all?

[David MacQuigg]:
Our goals are the same.  My clients are some of the best IC designers
in the world, but they don't have time to learn another computer
language.  What I can't pack into a two-day course on Python, I want
to "encapsulate" in a way that will not cause confusion later.  I
expect they will learn the basic syntax on most of the Python
statements, but not the extensions.  My "common-symbol-for-a
statement-extension" proposal is a way to encapsulate complexity.
Even if users never learn what is a 'generator', when they see that
word as part of a common extension syntax on a def statement, they
will not be discouraged from reading the def as they would a normal
function.

I think my recent experience in learning Python is typical of what we
can expect from IC designers.  I was put off by statements like
"lambda", "yield", "staticmethod", even though from a users view, they
are not fundamentally different than the basic statements.  Instead of
making lamda functions look like something new and wierdly different,
and mystifying the discussion with references to lambda calculus, it
would have been much better to use the standard function syntax and
substitute a "modified syntax" symbol for the function name.
Unglamorous, but very practical.  The explanation would take about two
sentences, and a simple example of its use would be about a half-page.

I have high hopes for Python.  If it continues to evolve in the right
direction, I can see it becoming the ultimate computer language for
non-programmer technical professionals.  I've looked also at Ruby, and
I see that as the second most likely to become the ultimate language.
With a five-year hindsight advantage over Python, it has some
syntactic benefits, but it just doesn't have yet the critical mass of
libraries and general support enjoyed by Python and Perl.

[Stephen Horne]:
>As for the print statement, I wouldn't use a decorating approach at
>all. And neither did you, for that matter - what you described could
>not be implemented using decorator functions.

[David MacQuigg]:
I think I'm using the word 'decorator' in a more generic sense -
anything that 'decorates' or 'adds to' the basic syntax of a
statement.

[Stephen Horne]:
>What I might use is something like...
>
>  pragma printoptions ( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' ) :
>    print "whatever"
>    print "something else"
>
>...as a general way of providing standard-behaviour-overriding flags
>for built-ins.

[David MacQuigg]:
I like this.  It keeps the basic syntax of the print statement clean.
It avoids a lot of typing in situations where there is a repetition of
the same 'decoration' on many statemtents.  The main drawback I see is
that in many situations, the modifcation is 'one time only'.  Then we
have *three* statements instead of one. ( We need a statement to
restore the default printoptions.)

Using the "common-symbol-for-a statement-extension" syntax, we could
modify multiple statements without too much clutter using something
like:

opts = printoptions( separator = ' ', terminator = '\n' )
print @(opts) "whatever"
print @(opts) "something else"

[Stephen Horne]:
>Except that I don't see this as a real problem. Print works well as a
>quick way to get results out of short scripts, where perfect
>formatting of those results is unimportant. In more sophisticated
>programs, other I/O mechanisms are better suited to the job.

[David MacQuigg]:

sys.stdout.write('%s %s %s\n' % (x, y, z) )

is enough of an inconvenience that many users are pushing for
something more.  And when each extension is added, like 'print >> ...'
there are howls of protest from those who see it as a wart.  Wouldn't
it be better if we introduce just one 'wart', a new symbol, that can
be used to solve this and many other problems.  >> is a wart only
because it is unique to this one situation.  If we use a syntax that
solves many similar problems, it becomes a feature, not a wart.

[Stephen Horne]:
>>>Not really. What happens when there are two different ways of
>>>modifying the same syntax? When the first one was defined with no
>>>awareness that another kind of modification might be needed later?

[David MacQuigg]:
>>I guess I'll need an example here.  Seems like the potential for
>>future incompatibilities is *greater* if the syntax itself has
>>"special meaning" ( e.g. "decorators" instead of [] ).

[Stephen Horne]:
>If a statement has a 'decorators' extension syntax, it can always add
>a 'widget' or 'blodget' extension syntax later, being clear to both
>the parser and the reader.

[David MacQuigg]:
So to make the example more concrete, I assume you would do something
like:

def func1( x, y, z ) decorators(staticmethod), blodgett(gradoo):

instead of:

def func1( x, y, z ) [staticmethod, gradoo]:

I think I'm missing something.

[Stephen Horne]:
>Contrast the case with a single extension-denoting symbol - '$'
>perhaps. If it gets re-used for several extensions to the same
>statement, you get the real possibility that the only way to tell the
>different extensions apart is the ordering. Which, at the very least,
>means a far greater probability of having to reread the documentation
>to figure out what something means - ie bad readability.

[David MacQuigg]:
I would expect the def statement to grow the most number of extensions
[staticmethod, accepts(int, int), ...].  Even with dozen or more,
surely we can name them distinctly.

Hey - I appreciate your time in giving these issues some real thought.

-- Dave



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 30 13:23:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:23:03 -0500
Subject: Global name "userid" not defined??
In-Reply-To: <Uqiac.1044$zh.796@fed1read07>
References: <Uqiac.1044$zh.796@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <M7OdnXLD54-aJvTdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Sean Berry wrote:

> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> def setUserid(value):
>     userid = value
> 
> def getUserid():
>     return userid
> 
> How do I make a variable global?

You need to use the "global" keyword (check the docs for more
information) with the name of the variable at the top of each
function which wants to *modify* the global variable (including by
creating it in the first place).

Although you don't need to include this ("global userid") in
the second function, it would probably be considered "good style".
Of course, using globals at all is pretty bad style, but as you're
just learning it's not the worst thing to do.  (Close, but not
the worst... just consider learning how to avoid them, generally
by making things more object-oriented.)

-Peter


From spamthisemail at mailinator.com  Thu Mar  4 01:33:10 2004
From: spamthisemail at mailinator.com (David Shaw)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 22:33:10 -0800
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<lUr1c.31844$hm4.9022@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <10cd2710.0403032233.4c8037b1@posting.google.com>

The real question is as to why *Python* isn't your favorite programming language!


- David
// http://david.artoo.net/


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Mar 30 15:54:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:54:23 -0800
Subject: asyncore deficiencies
In-Reply-To: <8961ebe5.0403290143.4a2b9edb@posting.google.com>
References: <99dce321.0403271928.69ef6eeb@posting.google.com>
	<c46607$cgk$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<99dce321.0403281816.4df96025@posting.google.com>
	<8961ebe5.0403290143.4a2b9edb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4cn01$1g8$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> My personal appreciation: asyncore is the most perfect combination of
> hard work and incompetence i have ever seen in my life. It is so
> anti-pythonic that it should get out of the standard distribution.
> 
> Just a personal opinion ...

Funny thing is that asyncore (aka medusa) is one of the highest 
performing asyncronous socket libraries for Python that is available. 
It also compares nicely (performance-wise) with most anything you could 
find in non-interpreted languages.

Honestly, I don't know what your issue is.  It is event based, and in 
the realm of event driven frameworks, is reasonable.

So what is your problem?

  - Josiah


From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 18 07:37:34 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:37:34 +0900
Subject: problem embedding numpy
Message-ID: <c3c5bf$1cg7$1@news.riken.go.jp>

My C++ application crashes at "import_libnumarray()", when I:

1.
   initalize python and numarray like:
...
   Py_Initialize();
   import_libnumarray();
...

2 .
   load another module like:

     PyObject* pModule = PyImport_Import(pName);


3.
call Py_Finalize()


and do 1. again.

If I call import_libnumarray() only once,
my app crashes at 2. at PyImport_Import(pName)

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
marc



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 12:52:29 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 09:52:29 -0800
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0403030952.9ea2cc3@posting.google.com>

I kept this sample from an ealier thread or website. I don't have the
link nor can I give credit to the author.   If you have some lattitude
on the exact format of the config file, this may do the trick for you
though:

Python App Macro Lang
 

class App:
    def __init__(self, name):
        self._name = name
    def name(self):
        return self._name

i=123

macrosource = """
print app.name()
i=1
if i==2:
    server="internal.blah.com"
else:
    server="external.blah.com"

"""

code = compile(macrosource, '<string>', "exec")
anApp = App('Global App Object')
context = {}

# populate context with fun things
context["app"] = anApp
exec code in context

print "The server is:" +  context["server"]
if i != 123:
    raise "local variable 'i' changed"

output = """
c:\cygwin\bin\sh -c "python PyAsMacroLang.py"
Global App Object
The server is:external.blah.com
"""


From rmkrauter at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 20:08:28 2004
From: rmkrauter at yahoo.com (Rich Krauter)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:08:28 -0500
Subject: ftp mget
In-Reply-To: <Xns94B7A13148CE8acuencacanadacom@198.161.157.145>
References: <Xns94B7A13148CE8acuencacanadacom@198.161.157.145>
Message-ID: <1080263308.6641.21.camel@vaio>

On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 18:54, allanc wrote:
> Anybody know if there's an ftp client in python that can do an mget?
> 
> My current implementation of an mget uses ftpconnection.nlst() to retrieve 
> the list of filenames. Then iterates through this list with
> retrlines('RETR ' + fname,callback).
> 
> I'd like to eliminate a LIST command on the ftp server altogether.
> 
> Thanks to all.


You may want to look in the python distribution at the script
Tools/scripts/ftpmirror.py. It's referenced on the module documentation
page for ftplib. 
It basically does what you're doing - parsing text returned by the LIST
command. It will probably give you some ideas, or let you know whether
you're barking up the wrong tree.  

Rich



From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 17:00:50 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:00:50 GMT
Subject: Need recommendations for installer setup tool
References: <c9d82136.0403191957.7385feba@posting.google.com>
	<NmY6c.37375$PY.8898@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>
	<c9d82136.0403220024.5a7fa66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ms28c.39225$PY.20716@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>

Noah <noah at noah.org> wrote:
> Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<NmY6c.37375$PY.8898 at newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>...
>> Noah <noah at noah.org> wrote:
>> > I would like something that could put a GUI on this process.
>> > Not that this would make it any easier to use, but it would make it
>> > easier to market :-P Ideally the installer would allow for both GUI and 
>> > text based interfaces.
>> >
>> > Are there any Python based products that would help me build these installers?
>> > I'm trying to move away from the bash scripts and go with 100% pure Python.
>> 
>> Have you looked at SCons? Between SCons and anygui, you might be able to
>> put together a good solution pretty easily.
>
> SCons looks great! At first glance it seem to be exactly what I was looking for.
>
> I thought that AnyGUI was a dead project. No?

It may be; I actually meant easygui, not anygui.

    http://www.ferg.org/easygui/

Note that easygui is *not* meant to be a full-fledged GUI. It's meant to
be a quick-and-easy way of popping up dialog boxes to get the user's
input, instead of having to do it in the command line. In other words,
instead of doing:

    print 'What is your name?'
    username = raw_input().rstrip()
    print 'Hello,' username

You can do:

    username = easygui.enterbox('What is your name')
    easygui.msgbox('Hello, %s' % username)

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Mar 22 21:56:56 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 23 Mar 2004 02:56:56 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3o91o$m06$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Minti <mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com>:
> However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
> times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
> figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
> if these figures are correct.

Recently, some troll challenged c.l.lisp:

"The best known non-stupid (real problem, any algorithm) benchmark is
probably the Coyote Gulch test. There are many languages that it has been
translated into. If you can produce (write or find) and post a Lisp version
that is within 10% of C performance, I will admit that #1 is incorrect."


  http://home.comcast.net/~bc19191/blog/040308.html  



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From talktojamesblair at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:09:00 2004
From: talktojamesblair at yahoo.com (james blair)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 05:09:00 -0800
Subject: Python,mysql question
Message-ID: <a4648036.0403180509.5ce9df39@posting.google.com>

Hi
I have a search page & the reults for the search are fetched from the
database.
I want that on the results page only first 25 results are shown & a
link "next 25 results" be shown.Same for the 2nd result page.
How do I do this?


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Mar 24 19:48:25 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:48:25 -0500
Subject: wxNotebook
In-Reply-To: <mailman.366.1080158717.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.366.1080158717.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40622C59.7040603@wi.mit.edu>

Gandalf wrote:
> 
> Hi All!
> 
> I would like to hide and show pages in a notebook. Here is what I do 
> right now:
> 
>   def SetVisiblePages(self,pages):
>       for index in range(self.notebook.GetPageCount()):
>           self.notebook.GetPage(index).Show(index in pages)
> 
> But it does not work. All pages remain visible. Only their content will 
> be invisible.
> I also tried this:
> 
> self.notebook.Show(index in pages)
> 
> but it hides the whole nootebook. How can I hide/show individual pages?
> Thanks in advance.

notebook.RemovePage will "hide" a notebook window without deleting it, 
you can add it back later.  Here is a small example, you'll probably 
want to do better bookkeeping than I do.

from wxPython.wx import *

class MyNoteBook(wxNotebook):
     def __init__(self, *a, **kw):
         wxNotebook.__init__(self, *a, **kw)
         self.pages = {}

     def HidePage(self, pagenum, label):
         page = self.GetPage(pagenum)
         self.pages[label] = page, self.GetPageText(pagenum)
         self.RemovePage(pagenum)

     def ShowPage(self, label):
         if label not in self.pages:
             return
         page, text = self.pages[label]
         self.AddPage(page, text, select=True)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     app = wxPySimpleApp()
     frame = wxFrame(None, -1, "test")
     sizer = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
     notebook = MyNoteBook(frame, -1)
     sizer.Add(notebook, 1, wxEXPAND|wxALL)
     panel1 = wxPanel(notebook, -1)
     panel1.SetBackgroundColour("yellow")
     notebook.AddPage(panel1, "Foo")
     panel2 = wxPanel(notebook, -1)
     panel2.SetBackgroundColour("red")
     notebook.AddPage(panel2, "Bar")
     def hidepageone(evt, notebook=notebook):
         notebook.HidePage(1, "mylabel")
     def showpageone(evt, notebook=notebook):
         notebook.ShowPage("mylabel")

     button1 = wxButton(frame, -1, "Hide Page")
     button2 = wxButton(frame, -1, "Show Page")
     EVT_BUTTON(button1, button1.GetId(), hidepageone)
     EVT_BUTTON(button2, button2.GetId(), showpageone)
     sizer.Add(button1, 0, wxEXPAND)
     sizer.Add(button2, 0, wxEXPAND)
     frame.SetSizer(sizer)
     frame.Show()
     app.MainLoop()






From antonmuhin at rambler.ru  Wed Mar 31 11:01:13 2004
From: antonmuhin at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:01:13 +0400
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>
	<mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael wrote:
> 
>> I have not yet contributed anything to the python documentation myself.
>>  
>>
> One thing I like about PHP's docs is that it allows users to post 
> comments, suggestions, extra information, etc to the docs online. Now 
> and then someone goes through and edits the useful bits into the 
> official documentation and flushes the comments all back out leaving 
> them clear for new people to post their own. Several times I've attached 
> comments as to how to compile a module or use some poorly documented 
> feature and have had lots of people write to thank me for how helpful 
> those comments were. I'd imagine the same process could be useful in 
> Python.
> 

Maybe just start a wiki based on the current documentation? It shouldn't 
be too difficult, should it?

regards,
anton.


From rhh at structurelabs.com  Tue Mar 30 19:04:16 2004
From: rhh at structurelabs.com (r holland)
Date: 30 Mar 2004 16:04:16 -0800
Subject: How to run another .py file w/o exec command?
References: <yQA9c.7195$ol3.1379@fe03.usenetserver.com>
	<406813DC.3010807@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <b14bfabe.0403301604.604164e0@posting.google.com>

you can try this

import os
os.system("python example.py")


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar  2 15:52:55 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:52:55 GMT
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
References: <c1t89m$a3u$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<3064b51d.0403011035.554e7731@posting.google.com>
	<lMN0c.83771$Wa.45964@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<3064b51d.0403020649.53866885@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Hu61c.84024$Wa.81499@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

beliavsky at aol.com:

> Thanks. I am going to learn about Psyco. In this case, I assume that
> doing the computations with floating point numbers and finally
> converting the result to int gives the same values as the original
> integer calculation. In other cases, integer arithmetic will need to
> be done with integers to ensure correct results.

   Yes, in this case float has enough range. That is something you get to
determine with any fixed length numeric representation.

> Python is supposed to be easy (and in general I agree that it is), but
> your solution requires some knowledge of
>
> (1) how integer and floating point calculations are done (which many
> novices do not have)
> (2) when Psycho can speed things up
>
> and the final result is still much slower than Fortran. For the
> Fortran program, the only "trick" is the use of integer*8.

   With Fortran, you need to know how large your values are going to become.
If you increased the number of iterations in your example sufficiently,
Fortran's 64 bit integers would overflow requiring understanding of the
concept of fixed range integers. Python avoids this by using unbounded
integers. Python is oriented towards ease of use and correctness at the
expense of speed. If the speed of the Python program is inadequate then you
can take a working Python program and work on its speed. Or decide that the
speed problem needs another language.

   Python does optimize integers that can be represented in 32 bits but
larger than that and unbounded integers are used. For some applications, it
would be better if Python also optimized integers that require between 32
and 64 bits.

   Neil




From atmo at go2.pl  Mon Mar  1 15:29:33 2004
From: atmo at go2.pl (Ringwraith)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:29:33 +0100
Subject: tkFileDialog.askdirectory root directory ?
Message-ID: <c206mk$lmi$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Hello!

I have the following problem. I use the tkFileDialog.askdirectory dialog to
allow users of my application to pick some subfolder from 'C:/my_app'
directory. I use initialdir='C:/my_app' option to set 'C:/my_app' as initial
directory. But I want my initial directory to be also a root directory, so
the user cannot pick any directory outside 'C:/my_app'  folder. I have no
idea how to do it using standard  tkFileDialog.askdirectory. Is that
possible?

Thank you in advance for any hints.

Best wishes,

Niki




From null at null.null  Fri Mar 19 14:02:35 2004
From: null at null.null (SWright)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:02:35 GMT
Subject: Updating Widgets
In-Reply-To: <405A9B0E.242E70EC@pobox.com>
References: <jpu6c.38749$SR1.45480@attbi_s04> <405A9B0E.242E70EC@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <ftH6c.43482$po.349454@attbi_s52>

Thanks very much for the explanation.  The actual program I'm working on 
has a lot of buttons so I was looking at different ways to control them. 
   This will at least keep me from spending any more time on this path.


From gary at fastlanenetworks.com  Mon Mar  8 17:24:43 2004
From: gary at fastlanenetworks.com (Gary Braver)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:24:43 -0500
Subject: Looking for general info on Python 
Message-ID: <000a01c4055c$2916d9b0$6702a8c0@eagleinvsys.com>

Looking for general info on Python and comparisons to other programming languages.

thanks

gary braver
fastlane networks
www.fastlanenetworks.com
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From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Mar 25 06:36:42 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:36:42 +0100
Subject: PyPI Enhancements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.384.1080209945.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.384.1080209945.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3ug7a$ag5$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

David McNab a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> I'm just looking through the PyPI tutorial, liking the fact that it's 
> now integrated with distutils, but seeing room for much more.
> 
> Is any work being done to add some CPAN-like or apt-like features to PyPI?
> 
> On first look, it doesn't appear that it would be too hard to add some 
> debian apt-like features such as:
> 
> * ability to declare dependencies in the setup.py metadata
> * a pypi directory inside the python directory tree, containing:
>    * package source trees
>    * cached list and dependency tree
>    * list of what's installed and what isn't
>    * an apt-like 'sources.list', whereby people can at their
>      discretion add supplementary download sources or mirrors
> * a pypi command, which:
>    * searches/lists/downloads desired package(s)
>    * caches a dependency tree
>    * when trying to build or install a new package, builds a tree
>      of unfulfilled dependencies, and asks for permission to
>      download/build(/install) the dependencies
> 
> I'd see it ideally working a bit like Debian's 'apt-get' and
> 'apt-cache' commands.
> 
> For instance:
> 
>  - pypi search <keyword> [<keyword>...]
>  - pypi download <pkgname> [<pkgname>...]
>  - pypi build <pkgname> [<pkgname>...]
>  - pypi install <pkgname> [<pkgname>...]
> 
> The 'download', 'build' and 'install' commands would require root, and 
> would cause packages to get downloaded into a pypi directory within the 
> python lib. If these packages have unfulfilled dependencies, pypi (like 
> Debian's 'apt') would list the additional packages and ask for 
> permission to build/install these as well.
> 
> Also:
>  - pypi enable-auto
> 
> This would install dummy modules for all non-installed packages. When a 
> program tries to import an uninstalled package, pypi terminates the 
> program with a PypiNotInstalled exception, telling the user to become 
> root and install the missing packages (of course, listing the packages 
> needing to be installed.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Cheers
> David
> 

That would be great !
Should also have an update command.

Instead of installing dummy modules, you can add a hook on the import 
function...

Yermat



From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Mar 14 23:29:25 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 20:29:25 -0800
Subject: An XML parser is an XML parser.  Period.
References: <mailman.1428.1076438817.12720.python-list@python.org>
	<402931E4.C1E50E92@engcorp.com> <c0beqb$2uv$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40294322.7AF2C6D7@engcorp.com> <c0bh63$jp2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40294D36.B0AEE3C4@engcorp.com> <c0do15$tge$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<402A69C2.FC8DABA@engcorp.com> <402A84FF.42CCB137@hotmail.com>
	<402A87FD.5879C6DC@engcorp.com>
	<d116fbae.0402120629.330062bb@posting.google.com>
	<c2qugb$1qlh$1@pc-news.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0403142029.7b410785@posting.google.com>

richard at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote in message news:<c2qugb$1qlh$1 at pc-news.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>...
> > So once more: AFAICT PyRXPU is an XML parser.  PyRXP is certainly not
> > an XML parser.  The substrate RXP is not an XML parser either when
> > compiled without Unicode support and although I respect Thompson and
> > Tobin as much as I do the PyRXP developers, they were really confusing
> > themselves and others when they said "It complies fully with the W3C
> > test suites (although we have compiled it without Unicode support for
> > the time being)."
> 
> Sorry to respond to a thread long after its sell-by date.
> 
> Just for the record, the statement above was made by the PyRXP people,
> not us.

My apoloies for the misattribution.

--Uche


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Mar 29 08:59:52 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:59:52 +0200
Subject: Tabbing probs (was: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes)
In-Reply-To: <406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <40682BD8.3040501@stackless.com>

Michael wrote:
...

> Do people actually post and read a lot of source code on mail or 
> newsgroup lists? Is that the main reason for not using tabs in code? 
> That'd seem a bit odd to me. Never actually tried using OE to read code. 
> I really don't use OE. Why wouldn't you just open the code in your code 
> editor of choice?

No, I think you don't get at the real problem:
People do use tabs which are 8 spaces, but they
want their code to be indented by steps of four.
This creates mixed tabbing, and that's what you
see way too often when reading foreign code.
You have to adjust your editor to *that* tabbing,
before editing the file, and then convert or
live with it.

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Wed Mar  3 07:09:40 2004
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:39:40 +0530
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
	<oueksar0tu.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
	<slrnc4bgub.4aj.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ou7jy2qghn.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "David" == David M Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> writes:

> In article <oueksar0tu.fsf at andlx-anamika.cisco.com>, Ganesan R wrote:
>>> python2.3-pgsql - A Python DB-API 2.0 interface to PostgreSQL v7.x
>>> python2.3-popy - module providing access to PostgreSQL from Python2.3
>>> python2.3-psycopg - Python 2.3 module for PostgreSQL
>>> python2.3-pygresql - PostgreSQL module for Python
>> 
>> I prefer the first one - it's BSD licensed, actively maintained and
>> supported. It's also very compatible with the python SQLite binding which I
>> use regularly.

I was referring to python2.3-pgsql which is the same as pyPgSQL.

> PyGreSQL (the first one), doesn't seem to handle boolean's correctly in
> Python 2.3.  Is there a workaround (aside from translating back and forth
>  before saving)?  This is the version that ships with Red Hat 9.

I presume you meant to say "the last one" :-).

Ganesan

--
Ganesan R



From olku at web.de  Fri Mar 19 04:44:32 2004
From: olku at web.de (Oliver Kurz)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:44:32 +0100
Subject: Best way to convert string a to utf-*
Message-ID: <c3efeb$tbc$1@news.web.de>

Hello,

could someone tell me the best way to convert a string to utf, for example
to utf-8?

The problem: I have no controll about the source where the string comes
from. It could have any possible characterset. And I have to convert it for
example to utf-8.

Is there a good way to do this? And when, how?

Is there a function which tell me, what is the characterset of the string at
the moment?

Would be create, when someone could help me!

cu
Oliver





From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Tue Mar 23 06:16:35 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:16:35 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Trevor Perrin]
> 
>>>Actually, Random could be made even easier to subclass.  getrandbits
>>>(which is new in 2.4) returns a long.  It would be better for us if
>>>there was a getrandstring() function that an underlying generator
>>>could implement.  This would also be a helpful addition to the API, at
>>>least for cryptographic uses.
> 
> 
> [Paul Rubin]
> 
>>I agree with this, and was going to propose the same thing.
>>getrandbits can be defined easily in terms of getrandstring, and the
>>current sample sharandom implemenation at
>>
>>   http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/sharandom.py
>>
>>does something along those lines.
> 
> 
> If you're sure you need this, please put a feature request on SF.  It
> needs to have a use case other than feeding message digest funtions --
> that need is readily met with str(x) or the faster hex(x).

One use case is cryptographic things like symmetric keys, IVs, nonces, 
random padding, etc.

> The new genrandbits() method was designed around the use case of
> making randrange() work over very large intervals which was necessary
> for creating large primes for RSA work.  In addition, all of the
> methods internal to the Random module work with numbers instead of
> byte strings.

Even still, I think getrandstring() would be a more convenient primitive 
than getrandbits():
  - cryptographic generators (which you'll want for RSA) are more 
naturally defined in terms of byte strings
  - it's not hard to convert byte-strings to longs or floats, but it 
would be better for this conversion to be done in the Random base class, 
instead of forcing every subclass to do it
  - getrandstring() is a useful addition to the API, whereas 
getrandbits() is trivally done by calling randint(0, 2**k).


Trevor


From mike at zcentric.com  Tue Mar 16 09:33:11 2004
From: mike at zcentric.com (Mike Zupan)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:33:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: py2exe and urllib(2) errors
In-Reply-To: <nPWdnfVXzoFpq8vdRVn-hg@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.6.1079387105.742.python-list@python.org>
	<nPWdnfVXzoFpq8vdRVn-hg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <47778.66.193.31.32.1079447591.squirrel@www.zcentric.com>

this was my command line

c:\python23\python setup.py py2exe -pPIL --packages=encodings

it was using py2exe 4.2. I also tried with no = to get the same results

Mike

> (From the py2exe homepage:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)
> ..if your exe-file reports errors like LookupError: no codec search
> functions registered: can't find encoding or LookupError: unknown
> encoding, you should advise py2exe to include this package with the
> '--packages encodings' command line option.
>
> Google turns up information very quickly.
>
> Larry Bates
>
>
> "Mike Zupan" <mike at zcentric.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.6.1079387105.742.python-list at python.org...
> I had some problems with urllib and py2exe under pyton2.3. I works fine
> until i try to use the exe file.
>
> Here is the error
>
> Error: 1
> LookupError Exception in Tk callback
>   Function: <bound method MainWindow.selectDir of <__main__.MainWindow
> instance
> at 0x00DF4058>> (type: <type 'instancemethod'>)
>   Args: ()
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "Pmw.pyc", line 1784, in __call__
>     None
>   File "<string>", line 270, in selectDir
>     None
>   File "<string>", line 361, in grabAlbumDirs
>     None
>   File "<string>", line 431, in addAlbumData
>     None
>   File "<string>", line 469, in grabImage
>     None
>   File "urllib2.pyc", line 129, in urlopen
>     None
>   File "urllib2.pyc", line 326, in open
>     None
>   File "urllib2.pyc", line 306, in _call_chain
>     None
>   File "urllib2.pyc", line 901, in http_open
>     None
>   File "urllib2.pyc", line 884, in do_open
>     None
>   File "httplib.pyc", line 712, in endheaders
>     None
>   File "httplib.pyc", line 597, in _send_output
>     None
>   File "httplib.pyc", line 564, in send
>     None
>   File "httplib.pyc", line 532, in connect
>     None
> LookupError: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding
>
>
> Here is the section of code that produces the error
>
> urllib.urlretrieve(imageURL, saveFile)
>
> imageURL and saveFile are correct
>
>
> Here is my setup.py file
>
> # setup.py
> from distutils.core import setup
>
> import py2exe
>
> setup(
>     scripts=["art.py"]
> )
>
>
> and here is my batch file
>
> c:\python23\python setup.py py2exe -pPIL --packages=encodings
>
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 00:08:40 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 3 Mar 2004 21:08:40 -0800
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<c25hhs$jk4$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <30260531.0403032108.3bfc4312@posting.google.com>

If you've got some money to buy a Windows commercial license, or just
want to program for Linux/GPL, then I'd say go with PyQt. The only
thing that puts me off is the stupid licensing issues which even the
PyQt/Qt/BlackAdder folks don't seem to grasp.

If you don't want to pay anything and go with whatever license you
want on Windows/Linux, then I'd say go with wxPython. What puts me off
is that some of the dialogs are completely different between OSes, or
have limited functionality on Linux.

If you don't really mind how it looks and don't need a wide range of
widgets and just want something easy, I'd say go for TKinter.


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Mar  1 18:20:10 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:20:10 -0600
Subject: NT Services and EventLog problems
Message-ID: <nv2dnbEFoeS4WN7dRVn-sA@comcast.com>

I have tried everything I know to get my NT service
to make correct entries in the NT Event Log when the
service is started and stopped (and eventually when
permanent failures occur).

I'm copying the code I see on page 356 of Python
Programming on Win32 and for the life of me I cannot
get this to work properly.  Basically I have
the following code snippet at the top of my SvcDoRun
method:

import servicemanager
servicemanager.LogMsg(
    servicemanager.EVENTLOG_INFORMATION_TYPE,
    servicemanager.PYS_SERVICE_STARTED,
    (self._svc_name_,''))

I also inserted the following to make the proper
registry entries when the service is installed:

win32evtlogutil.AddSourceToRegistry('AFR',
    'C:\Python22\Lib\site-Packages\win32\PythonService.exe',
    'Application')

The entry that gets put into the Event Log is as follows:

The description for Event ID ( 4098 ) in Source
( PythonService ) cannot be found. The local computer
may not have the necessary registry information or
message DLL files to display messages from a remote
computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE=
flag to retrieve this description; see Help and
Support for details. The following information is
part of the event: AFR, .

Note:  _svc_name_="AFR"

Something is not set correctly, but for the life of me
I cannot determine what.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Regards,
Larry Bates




From patois at calvix.org  Fri Mar 19 13:12:03 2004
From: patois at calvix.org (Yannick Patois)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:12:03 +0100
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>

Hi,


Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
>>Under some naming conditions of module files, it seems that python lost
>>class static variables values.
> Since 'static variable' is not a Python concept, I do not know what you
> mean.

As you're so smart and you read the following, how do you call 'a' in 
class A ?
That's what I want to qualify.


>>The value 1 obtained as expected (A.a is a static value and keept as
> such).
> Given that you rebound A.a to 1 from None, I especially do not know what
> you mean.

I dont understand.


>>If now I just *rename* file B to B.1, without any change in the code
>>(except name='B' become name='B.1' in aTest.py), content of B.1.py file
>>being exacty the same as content of B.py, I get:
> 
> As you seem to be aware, Python expects modules to have a 'nice' name
> consisting of
> legal_Python_indentifier.py.

Which are ? Where to find this info ?

>  If you evade this, you are a bit on your own
> and may run into untested corner cases.

Untested area contains bugs, that's why it's interesting to test them.

>>$ ./aTest.py
>>None
>>Renaming B.py to B.1.py made A unable to keeps the value of it's static
>>variable.
> 
> It seems to me that it *kept* its original value.

However you called it, it doesnt behave the same (and doesnt behave the 
way python should work). The change is only a file name, no more.

> I would put more print
> statements into both A.A and B.B and maybe even aTest.py to see where
> execution first differs.

It breaks in B, if I remember well.

>>Any idea ? Is it well a bug ? Some feature I didnt understood ? I read
>>about submodule naminig using dots as separator, but I cant relate it
>>towhat I saw here.
>  
> import b.b1 would normally mean import file (module) b1 in the b package
> directory.

It's not the case here: would have it be that the import statement would 
have broke with "cant find that module".

>  But imp obviously did not find fine '1' in a 'B' directory.

It didnt seek for it, it just loaded 'B.1' as asked. Everything seems to 
work, except that some internal python dictionnary has likely been 
corrupted.

Correct behavior would either be "break on 'cant import module 1 from 
B'" or "correctly import B.1 without corrupting anything."

To me, that's look to be a bug.

	Yannick

-- 
_/ Yannick Patois \___________________________________________________
| web: http://feelingsurfer.net/garp/ | Garp sur irc undernet          |
| email:  patois at calvix.org           |                                |
| ATTAC dans le Pays de Gex: http://attacgex.ouvaton.org               |


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Wed Mar 10 02:45:39 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:45:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
Message-ID: <20040310074539.12029.qmail@web8309.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I recently wrote a Perl version of pyAlbum.py [1] -- a
Python script to create an image album from a given
directory -- plAlbum.pl [2].

It made me realize how easy-to-use Python is.

[1]
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246
[2]
http://www.premshree.resource-locator.com/cgi-bin/source.pl?file=../perl/plAlbum.pl

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Mar 12 13:14:00 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:14:00 +0100
Subject: UNC paths in file object open
References: <4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <c2sula$pkc$1@newshispeed.ch>

What's the error? Can you provide a trceback?

Regards
Franz

P.S.: Im not sure but accessing a share on a machine NOT connected to a
network doesn't work since 2k and XP (worked on NT, though).

"Graham" <gsmith at oxfam.org.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4051f619$0$6547$ed9e5944 at reading.news.pipex.net...
> I ma trying to open a file on a network share
>
> ie \\servername\share\folder\file
>
> afile = open( \\server\share\folder\file, "r" )
>
> have also tried
> afile = open( //server/share/folder/file, "r" ) # as per the Python
cookbook
> advice on page 113 namely " use / regardless of the proclivities of the
> underlying operating system".
>
> Neither work.
>
> I am running python on XP and accessing win 2000 share.
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Graham Smith
>
> PeopleSoft Technical Team Leader
> OXFAM GB
> +44 (1865) 313255
> gsmith at oxfam.org.uk
>
>
>




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Mar 15 03:44:50 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 09:44:50 +0100
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <67efcd4ccaf87ddf3c640aad5517017a@news.teranews.com>
	<mailman.359.1079189987.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7de2e74a623ae9f3ff3fe9ae4e1ec2b4@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <tyfptbe4hz1.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Dang Griffith <google0 at lazytwinacres.net> writes:

> >Not forcing variable initialization does have its problems. Here's
> >what I mean:
> >http://www.livejournal.com/users/premshree/10624.html?thread=53376#t53376
> 
> Yes, I agree.  That is one reason I like Python.
> It has forced variable *initialization*.  You cannot use a variable
> that has not been initialized.

But there is nothing to prevent you from assigning to a previously
non-existing variable, which is what Premshree is concerned about.

> In fact, the act of initializing a variable is what makes the
> variable exist.

Exactly, make a typo, and the compiler won't notice.

This can indeed be a minor annoyance in interactive
exploration. However, the development of a real program, backed by a
test suite, will catch the problem in no time.

It's just one of the thousands of possible styles of bugs that you can
introduce into the program ... ALL of which will be caught by a decent
test suite. Adding restrictions to a language just to catch one of the
many of styles of possible bugs is counterproductive. Support your
development with a decent test suite, and use the most flexible
language you can get your hands on.


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:30:01 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:30:01 -0800
Subject: inetd script in python?
References: <8ab78660.0402270403.6a36f7f3@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc3v1ka.mk5.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <donn-C94D87.11300001032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <slrnc3v1ka.mk5.ncw at irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>,
 Nick Craig-Wood <ncw at axis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Jan <jan.kesten at web.de> wrote:
> >  So far I read about that I could use stdin and stdout for
> >  communication since inetd handles the socket. And I read that I
> >  could use socket.fromfd to get a socket object to work with. But
> >  both do not work, I tried to send just a greeting back to the
> >  client or getting some text - nothing.
> 
> You should find something simple like this works - inetd is supposed
> to make writing internet daemons easy!
> 
> import sys
> 
> while 1:
>     bfr = sys.stdin.read(1024)
>     sys.stdout.write(bfr)
> 
> You can then test the code on the command line by typing stuff to it
> and seeing it print its output.
> 
> Beware buffering though!

Indeed, to the point where the code you propose would not
work when you test it the way you propose.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar 10 12:28:01 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:28:01 -0500
Subject: The Order Of Dictionary Entries
References: <in93i1-ctp1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <c2nj73$pu6$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Tim Daneliuk" <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:in93i1-ctp1.ln1 at eskimo.tundraware.com...
> I am aware that dictionary order is not guaranteed.  But I ran into
> something puzzling today.  I filled a dictionary dynamically as a
> program ran.  Up to a certain point, the key order was the order
> in which things were added.

I am rather certain that this was an accident dependent on you adding the
keys in the order in which they were going to displayed.  Try adding the
items in a different order and the display order should not change much if
at all.  Example:

>>> {1:1, 2:2}
{1: 1, 2: 2}
>>> {2:2, 1:1}
{1: 1, 2: 2}

Terry J. Reedy






From fey at parsytec.de  Thu Mar 11 16:34:17 2004
From: fey at parsytec.de (Sebastian Fey)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:34:17 +0100
Subject: pyXML:save changes made to DOM-tree, get entity-uri
Message-ID: <53DD404D1B0B67479AD684BFFA54858B2429A8@srvac03.parsytec.local>

 

	(hope MSOWebAccess will send this message as plain text)
	 
	hi, 

	id like to do the following: 

	(1) open a .xml, change something and save it. 
	problem is: how to save/serialize? 
	i tried xml.dom.ext.Print, but this resolves all entities and serializes the xml with resolved entities. (see example below)

	 

	(2) id also like to load external parsed entities referenced in the xml. 
	MSXML provides an extension(?) to DOM which returns the uri to an entityReference-NODE. 
	any similar in pyXML.  actually, is nodetype entityReference implemented in pyXML. i always get the nodeType of the resolved entity, ie 3(NODE_TEXT) with a internal unparsed entity.

	
	############# 
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> 
	<!DOCTYPE xbel [ 
	        <!ENTITY intTxt 'GIGI'> 
	        <!ENTITY intMarkup '<entIntern>text</entIntern>'> 
	        <!ENTITY extParsed SYSTEM "ent.xml"> 
	]> 
	<root> 
	        <text>&intTxt;</text> 
	        &intMarkup; 
	        &extParsed; 
	</root> 
	############ 

	becomes: 

	############# 
	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> 
	<root> 
	        <text>some text</text> 
	        <entIntern>text</entIntern>' 
	        <entIntern>text</entIntern>' 
	</root> 
	############# 


	thx, 
	        Sebastian 




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 15:14:31 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:14:31 -0800
Subject: Fast way to send message between 2 child processes? (using a
 file is too slow?)
In-Reply-To: <7xoer6i2s7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <bf23f78f.0403081827.4f161f9c@posting.google.com>
	<20040309032505.GA18682@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.151.1078807449.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<7xoer6i2s7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c2l8oj$9c9$1@news.service.uci.edu>


> http://gigue.peabody.jhu.edu/~mdboom/omi/source/shm_source/shm.html
> 
> But you will have to know what you're doing.


OOO, that is nice.  I've been using IP sockets for all local 
communication, sweet.

  - Josiah


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  8 10:55:53 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:55:53 -0700
Subject: Best way to run ipython inside of emacs shell?
References: <692feddd.0403072229.7d1d4675@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c2i52d$6v2$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Hi,

Equis Uno wrote:

> I use meta-x shell to start a shell and then once I see a shell
> prompt I enter the python command and I get a well-behaved python
> shell inside of emacs.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the best way to run ipython inside of emacs.

Try instead putting the following in your .emacs file:

(require 'ipython)

Then, start the ipython shell via C-c ! (that is, Control-C followed by an
exclamation mark), _from_ a python buffer.  Don't do meta-x 'shell', because
it won't initialize properly the color handling.  Let me know if this works
ok. Feel free to mail me directly to fperez-AT-colorado-DOT-edu, I'm the
ipython main developer, or to the mailing lists.  If I get stuck (I'm no emacs
expert), we can ask Alex Schmolck, the original author of ipython support for
emacs.

cheers,

f


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar 25 05:18:33 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:18:33 +0100
Subject: Split a string by length
References: <e567c03a.0403250144.7bfb15f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c3ublp$qf0$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Pascal wrote:

> How can I do to simulate this way:
> 'aabbcc'.split(2) -> ['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
> I tried with a 'slice' but this didn't run:
> [item for item in 'aabbcc'[::2]] -> ['a', 'b', 'c']

>>> def chunks(s, chunklen):
...     for i in range(0, len(s), chunklen):
...             yield s[i:i+chunklen]
...
>>> list(chunks("aabbcc", 2))
['aa', 'bb', 'cc']
>>> list(chunks("aabbc", 2))
['aa', 'bb', 'c']
>>>

Peter


From wweston at att.net  Sat Mar  6 13:52:57 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:52:57 GMT
Subject: Question please
In-Reply-To: <mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.71.1078594360.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6p2c.80316$aH3.2452506@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>



Abe and Barb K. wrote:
> I have a new HP computer that seems to have come with Python 2.2 with 
> win32 extensions software.
>  
> I'm not a programmer or tech and would like to know if I can just remove 
> this software without affecting anything in my system as it is taking up 
> space if I'm not going to use it?
>  
> Thanks so much.
> Barbara K.

Abe/Barb,
    It sounds like you are running a Dos/Windows variant
so it is unlikely anything system crucial needs Python.
You could probably move the Python to a new directory,
say, \PythonTemp. Run for some time to check it out,
move it back where it was, and uninstall.
    You could also check out the tutorial on python.org.
Python may be the fastest growing language - due to its
popularity.
wes



From Spam at ivonet.nl  Thu Mar  4 14:07:18 2004
From: Spam at ivonet.nl (Ivo)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:07:18 +0100
Subject: Download counter
Message-ID: <40477e62$0$3895$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

people why does this not work??

I have tried to write a download manager (counter) for my website
called something like this: http://<server>/cgi-bin/download.py?FileID=1

I do get a download popup but the download is broken. Someting is not right
and I don't know what.

Excuse my sloppy code... It is stil in test.

Code below, help appreciated.
===
#!d:/python/python.exe
#e:/python23/python.exe
import cgi
import os
import glob
import sys

__author__ = "Ivo Woltring"
__version__ = "00.01"

__doc__="""
Enable download with additional features like counters, logging, no direct
downloads, etc.
"""


#===============================================================
# Realmap is the reference to the physic location of the root map
# of your site
RealMap  = "D:/IvoNet.nl"
#===============================================================

def WriteError(titel,text):
 print('Content-Type: text/html\r\n\r\n')
 print """\
<HTML><HEADER><TITLE>%s</TITLE></HEADER>
<BODY>
<H2>%s</H2>
%s
</BODY></HTML>
""" % (titel,titel,text)
 sys.exit(1)


#===============
# Main stuff
#===============

#GetFormulier...and check it
form = cgi.FieldStorage()
if not form:
  WriteError('Download error:', 'No download was specified...')
else:
 if form.has_key("FileID"):
  FileID=form["FileID"].value
  try: int(FileID)
  except: WriteError('Download error:', 'No valid ID was entered: %s' %
(FileID,))
 else: WriteError('Download error:', 'No valid key specified...')

from IvoNetdb import IvoNetSpufi # load My database settings

try:
 data = IvoNetSpufi("""SELECT location,archive
                          FROM download
                         WHERE id=%s
                     """ % (FileID,)) # Will return a tuple with tuples in
it.
except: WriteError('ERROR','SQL Error.')
# update the counter
if not IvoNetSpufi("""UPDATE download
                         SET downloadcounter = downloadcounter+1
                       WHERE id = %s
                   """ % (FileID,)):
 WriteError('ERROR','Could not update downloadcounter')

if not data:
 WriteError('ERROR','Did not find a match for ID: %s' % (FileID,))
else:
 #WriteError('data',data)
 data = data[0] # list in list is returned so make it easy on yourself
 loc = os.path.join(RealMap+data[0],data[1])
 if not os.path.isfile(loc):
  WriteError('ERROR','File does not appear to be there anymore...')
 else:
  fhandle = open(loc, 'r')
  file    = fhandle.read()
  fhandle.close()

  print('Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=%s' % data[1])
  #print('Content-type: application/force-download')
  print('Content-length: %s' % len(file))
  print('Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="%s"' % data[1])
  print
  print file
  #sys.stdout.write(file)
==




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Wed Mar 10 03:12:16 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:12:16 +0200
Subject: How to read between xml tags?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.207.1078896503.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.207.1078896503.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <404ECDE0.4060809@zoran.com>

Hello Anthony,

> 1. The read operation must either read a full tag or
> ignore the tag.
> 
> 2. If the read operation reads between <P> and </P>,
> then it must reads the whole thing between those 2
> tags all at once.
> 
> How can I achieve this please?
I think the xml.sax module is what you're looking for.
A small, briefly tested something might be:
---
#!/usr/bin/env python

from xml.sax.handler import ContentHandler
from xml.sax import parse

class ArticleHandler(ContentHandler):
     def __init__(self, *ignore):
         ContentHandler.__init__(self)
         self.data = "" # Data buffer
         self.get = 0 # Get flag
         # Ignore hash
         self.ignore = {}.fromkeys([i.lower() for i in ignore])

     def startElement(self, name, attrs):
         if name.lower() in self.ignore:
             self.get = 0
         else:
             self.get = 1

     def endElement(self, name):
         self.get = 0

     def characters(self, content):
         if self.get:
             self.data += content


from sys import argv
handler = ArticleHandler()
parse(argv[1], handler)
print handler.data # Will print full data

handler = ArticleHandler("headline")
parse(argv[1], handler)
print handler.data # Will print data without headlines
---

HTH.
Miki



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 04:14:19 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:14:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What is wrong?  The minidom or the XML file?
Message-ID: <20040310091419.56049.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>

I copy-pasted the following sample xml document from
http://slis-two.lis.fsu.edu/~xml/sample.html and saved
it as samplexml.xml.  Please note that I removed the
following line

<!DOCTYPE DOCUMENT SYSTEM "simple.dtd">

from the original xml sample.

<?XML version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<DOCUMENT trackNum="1234">
<TITLE> Sample Document </TITLE>
<AUTHOR> <FIRSTNAME> Brandon </FIRSTNAME>
<LASTNAME> Voss </LASTNAME>
<COMPANY> The XML Pages </COMPANY> </AUTHOR>
<SUMMARY> This is element text and an entity
follows:&Description;
</SUMMARY>
</DOCUMENT>

Then, I attempted to parse this xml document with the
following python code, which is saved as xmltest.py.

from xml.dom import minidom
xmldoc = minidom.parse('sample.xml')
print xmldoc.toxml()

I got the following error message:

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\codes\xmltest.py", line 4, in
-toplevel-
    xmldoc = minidom.parse('samplexml.xml')
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line
1919, in parse
    return expatbuilder.parse(file)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line
924, in parse
    result = builder.parseFile(fp)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line
207, in parseFile
    parser.Parse(buffer, 0)
ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1,
column 5
>>> 

I have no clue why that xml document is not
well-formed.

Any hint please?


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar  2 12:24:30 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:24:30 -0000
Subject: Lua Book
References: <2ae25c6b.0403020006.6b99e590@posting.google.com>
	<du7ptbvehb2.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<1048rn8lpr0acde@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1049gqe9n762hf6@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.28.1078240405.12614.python-list at python.org>,
Pete Shinners  <pete at shinners.org> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua?  Look at
>> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.
>
>I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples from the book 
>may frighten me away for good.
>
>http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html
>
>
>
>I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather trivial.
>
>def allwords():
>     for line in sys.stdin:
>         for word in line.split():
>             yield word
>
>for word in allwords():
>     print word
>
>
>

Provocative comparison; perhaps Roberto will even join in
and comment here.  In any case, there's still a place for
Lua, and I think there's value in the discussion of Lua
that comp.lang.python has already hosted.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Mar 30 11:38:10 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:38:10 -0500
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.77.1080592548.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4bvod$fm8$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <yJaaAls/KH3A089yn@the-wire.com>

Or I could see (untested code)


import random, sys

def fortunes (infile):
    return infile.read().split ('\n%\n')

def findfortune (filename):
    return random.choice (fortunes (file (filename, 'rt'))

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print findfortune (sys.argv[1])


        Regards.    Mel.


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Tue Mar 30 19:32:21 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:32:21 -0800
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>
Message-ID: <406A1195.5010908@mlug.missouri.edu>


>I have not yet contributed anything to the python documentation myself.
>  
>
One thing I like about PHP's docs is that it allows users to post 
comments, suggestions, extra information, etc to the docs online. Now 
and then someone goes through and edits the useful bits into the 
official documentation and flushes the comments all back out leaving 
them clear for new people to post their own. Several times I've attached 
comments as to how to compile a module or use some poorly documented 
feature and have had lots of people write to thank me for how helpful 
those comments were. I'd imagine the same process could be useful in Python.



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  4 14:40:55 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:40:55 GMT
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<slrnc4da23.1lq.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c26b3f$bor$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<slrnc4egus.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<du73c8ofx57.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi> <104emss6ca09l45@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3smgoz9h5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> As far as I am concerned, 2 and 3 are so whats.  1 would be nice at
> times, but there's no way it's going to happen in a language that
> doesn't have static typing.

Well, it's called multiple dispatch.  Could be done, but it's quite a
paradigm shift.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Two things I learned for sure during a particularly intense acid
  trip in my own lost youth: (1) everything is a trivial special case
  of something else; and, (2) death is a bunch of blue spheres.
                                             -- Tim Peters, 1 May 1998


From artur_spruce at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 03:39:22 2004
From: artur_spruce at yahoo.com (AdSR)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 00:39:22 -0800
Subject: Voting (was Re: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<b840abf4.0403221125.29cc0398@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.247.1079985383.742.python-list@python.org>
	<b840abf4.0403221433.51e88e2a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.256.1079995658.742.python-list@python.org>
	<du7n068840d.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <b840abf4.0403240039.79a44772@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> FWIW, I prefer 
> 
> def f(x,y) [wrapper,wrapper...]:
>         pass
> 
> or
> 
> def f(x,y) as iterable:
>         pass
> 
> and would oppose
> 
> def f [wrapper, wrapper...] (x,y):
>         pass
> 
> Like others, I want to see the param list right next to the function
> name.

I like the "as iterable" form much better than any other. The "as"
word says immediately what it means.

Also, since in some situations tuples are written without parens ("a,
b, c = three_elem_tuple"), you could allow for:

def f(x, y) as decor1, decor2, decor3:
    pass

Cheers,

AdSR


From jceasar at tmp.org  Thu Mar  4 16:46:56 2004
From: jceasar at tmp.org (jceasar at tmp.org)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:46:56 -0800
Subject: ^_^ meay-meay!
Message-ID: <qpykhddupqubqhmnncj@tmp.org>

Looking  forward  for a response :P
 
..btw, "80063" is a password for  archive
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From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 12:30:31 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:30:31 -0800
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-6EDBC5.09303115032004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list at python.org>,
 Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
...
> Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
> typing, I think. Static typing has to do with explicit
> declaration (initialization) of variables (and not of
> variable types). Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> strongly typed, i.e., variables are necessarily bound
> to a particular type.

Just a nit-picking annotation - static typing actually
does not require explicit declaration.  Some of very
strongl statically typed languages, mainly functional
languages like Haskell and ML, use type inference instead,
and programs written in those languages will generally
have declarations only to clarify or narrow the type of
an expression when it suits the programmer.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled debate over
whether Python's typing is "strong" or not, with the
observation that "strong" in "strongly statically typed"
apparently is not the same "strong" as in "strongly typed."
I guess it's fun to have something to wrangle over that
doesn't have any real consequence, but let's be clear about
that - "strongly typed" is a useless phrase.  It may be
correctly applied to Python, but only to someone who already
understands what is being communicated, so of no value to
anyone but language taxonomists.  Are you folks sure you
wouldn't rather talk about whether parameters are passed
by value or by reference?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Thu Mar 11 17:15:58 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:15:58 -0700
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.279.1079027533.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com>

You have two issues here:

1. Don't use the quit method, instead just close your window.  Your QUIT
button could perhaps use:
	command=self.destroy

2. Don't call mainloop() if IDLE already has one running.  Try this:

import sys
if "idlelib" not in sys.modules:
	root.mainloop()

	Jason Harper


From axelboldt at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 15:55:59 2004
From: axelboldt at yahoo.com (Axel Boldt)
Date: 16 Mar 2004 12:55:59 -0800
Subject: Result of  ``a is b''
References: <40200384.0403151632.35496ee6@posting.google.com>
	<gjvc50pkfb1ofgmfd1p39vcsj1g97un7d8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40200384.0403161255.7fca7a8c@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote 

> >>> x = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
> >>> y = 'akdijfkdienlskfi'
> >>> x is y
>  True
> >>> x = 'a b'
> >>> y = 'a b'
> >>> x is y
>  False

Wow. So it seems that the action of "is" on immutables is unspecified
and implementation dependent, thus useless to the programmer.

Maybe one could redefine "is" on immutables as follows: for strings
and numbers it acts as "==", for tuples it acts as componentwise "is".
That would be a more useful operator IMHO.

Axel


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Mar 22 20:18:18 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:18:18 -0500
Subject: 3D apps in Python?
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE014C718C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20040323011818.GA14644@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)]
> > From: Brandon J. Van Every

> He's ba-ack ...

:-).

Indeed.  The pattern is always the same.  Some innocuous question or
remark at the start, and the progressive build up of inflammatory
contents as replies and exchanges go.  Hoping that newcomers to the
Python list will resist falling in the various traps, this time :-),
it might nevertheless be interesting to observe the mechanics of the
degradation, at least in the very beginnings of it.  As usual, it will
soon become annoying and noisy!  Sigh!

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Tue Mar 23 17:33:28 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:33:28 GMT
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<47e891f1.0403221408.27fee114@posting.google.com>
	<7xk71c32mp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<0gN7c.41346$zm5.32277@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x7jxc9r9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230111.1a5137e8@posting.google.com>
	<n0V7c.27622$GT5.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<5d83790c.0403230857.50e3bc73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YW28c.27924$ui1.43@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> [Trevor Perrin]
> 
>>  - getrandstring() is a useful addition to the API, whereas 
>>getrandbits() is trivally done by calling randint(0, 2**k).
> 
> 
> Actually, randint() is implemented in terms of getrandbits() when
> k>53.  This saves needless conversions in and out of floating point.

I'm proposing that getrandstring() (returning a string) is a better 
primitive than getrandbits() (returning a long).  A generator should 
only have to implement getrandstring(), and the base class would 
synthesize everything else.  That way, the conversion routines (from 
byte-strings to longs and floats) don't have to be replicated in each 
subclass.

This would simplify Paul's sharandom class, and the platform-specific 
generators I'm thinking of:

class devurandom(random.Random):
     def __init__(self):
         self.f = open("/dev/urandom", "rb")
	
     def getrandstring(n):
         return self.f.read(n)


Also, the getrandstring() function would be useful for end-users (which 
was my point above):

sslPreMasterSecret = secureRandom.getrandstring(48)

This would be easy to implement with Mersenne Twister too.  Though it 
would involve some rewriting.

Do you think this is worthwhile?


Trevor


From cns at RedBrick.dcu.ie  Wed Mar  3 10:56:16 2004
From: cns at RedBrick.dcu.ie (Cillian Sharkey)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:56:16 +0000
Subject: XML-RPC server framework
Message-ID: <20040303155616.GA28132@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie>

Hi,

I'm trying to find any existing frameworks for writing an XML-RPC server
that has the following features:

- HTTPS
- connection oriented (HTTP/1.1 persistent connections)
- multiple concurrent connections
- hooks for custom handling of HTTP basic authentication
- dynamic documentation on GET requests a la DocXMLRPCServer

I'm aware of xmlrpclib, M2Crypto, py-xmlrpc, Twisted but haven't found
an existing implementation that does all of the above. I'd prefer not to
have to write it myself :-)

Any tips appreciated (please CC me on replies).

Thanks,

-- 
Cillian



From jmiller at stsci.edu  Fri Mar 19 17:58:38 2004
From: jmiller at stsci.edu (Todd Miller)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 17:58:38 -0500
Subject: Tkinter focus under windows
Message-ID: <1079737118.15162.266.camel@halloween.stsci.edu>

I'm working on a Tkinter backend for the matplotlib plotting software. 
matplotlib can be run interactively from some form of Python shell while
plotting to a Tk window.  One annoyance we've noticed is that when we
update the plot window, it steals the focus from the shell window, at
least on a Win32 platform.

I am very new to Tkinter so I am looking for insight into how the focus
works on win32 and how to prevent the Tkinter window from stealing focus
from the shell window.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Todd Miller





From garryknight at gmx.net  Sun Mar 14 18:30:23 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:30:23 +0000
Subject: getting size of gif
References: <b82e5469.0403091126.33d0afe7@posting.google.com><9L2dna_mgLuovNPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<104se8bhc5rm477@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.13.1079302660.682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1079307022.31907.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net>

In message <mailman.13.1079302660.682.python-list at python.org>, Fredrik Lundh
wrote:

> note that you don't need all of PIL to run the above example; it's enough
> to install Image.py, ImageFile.py, ImagePalette.py, and the
> *ImagePlugin.py files you need for your application.  the binary
> extensions are not needed.

Gosh, what a payload! It might not be the Python way of doing things, but
this should work just as well:

f = open('x.gif', 'rb')
gif = f.read(6)         # 'gif89a'
width = ord(f.read(1)) + 256 * ord(f.read(1))
depth = ord(f.read(1)) + 256 * ord(f.read(1))
print "width = %d, depth = %d" % (width, depth)

You could just do f.seek(6) in the second line if you're not worried about
checking that it's a valid gif file. Of course, this only works with
single-image files, not with animated gifs.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 00:02:25 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 21:02:25 -0800
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
	<ZNF9c.49108$cx5.10276@fed1read04>
	<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0403282102.632ae427@posting.google.com>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94BBF152E6BBcpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134>...
> Can you explain to me in easy words, why it is NOT possible to integrate 
> prototypes into Python to stand "side by side" with classes?

It is possible, but you will not be able to retroactively apply it to
many existing objects. You will only be able to do things with your
new customized objects.

For instance, there is a class called 'module', and in Python you
cannot add attributes to it. Similary, there is a metaclass 'type',
and you cannot add attributes nor insert hooks to it.

Either you start afresh with prototypes from ground up, or you won't
be able to modify the behavior of existing Python objects.

I believe there was already some previous attempts along the line that
you have said.

> I never had a problem to "add an attribute" to an existing object; I really 
> can't see why it should be more than some small hacks to allow "adding a 
> function to an existing object". 

Sure, adding an attribute to *your* objects is not an issue. Adding
attributes and modify the behavior of other people's objects is the
issue. These "other people's objects" include system objects, and
objects created by third-party.

The "other people" often include yourself. It is hard to explain.
Maybe I can suggest reading my previous posting:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1486542349d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=8ef9bea6.0403260837.72a8fade%40posting.google.com&rnum=27

There are quite a few software development needs that one only
discovers when one goes to large projects, with various components,
maybe even in different languages.

It is only when things get complex that you wish you had a clean and
pure foundation. When your projects are small, deficiencies and
impurities in your language don't matter too much.

-----------------------

I think the current way how OOP is taught is kind of bad. The lectures
would start with definition of classes, inheritance, virtual
functions, etc.

As I have mentioned a few times in this mailing list, software
engineering, and all human intellectual activities, ultimately come
down to factorization (of code, or of tasks). From simple algebra to
supersymmetric quantum field theory, it has been so. From goto
statements to OOP to metaclasses to AOP to prototype-based, it has
been so.

Instead of starting with dogmas and axioms, people can probably better
focus on factorization and how it happened. People don't just invent
OOP or prototype-based language out of blue, nor did they come up with
database normalization rules out of blue. People arrived at these
devices because they observed: (1) similar tasks or code spots all
over places, that is, they discovered a symmetry, a repetitive
pattern, which often was becoming painful to deal with, (2) they then
figured out a way to factorize the code or organize the tasks, so to
factor out the common part and make their lives less painful.

It's only after (2) that they invent a new concept or technology, and
from then on they know that in the future they can start right away
with the new approach, instead of writing the same code in two spots
and later having to factorize them out.

------------------

I often don't know how to take it when I see people talking about OOP
by using definitions like: polymorphism, data hiding, etc. As if these
definitions were something of utmost importance. To me, OOP is just a
tool for factorizing code, just like using for-loops and using
functions to factor out repetitive code. Polymorphism, data hiding,
etc. are all secondary features: code factorization is the heart and
soul of OOP. Class-based OOP is a way of factorizing. Prototype-based
is just another way of factorizing, which seems to be more elegant:
instead of two concepts (classes and instances), you unify them and
have only one concept (objects). Moreover, in a prototype-based
language like Io, even scopes and objects are unified.

In C++, many new programmers get confused about the usage of macros,
templates (generics in Java in C#) and multiple inheritance (mix-in).
Sure, they are harder to read. But behind each device, the simple and
ultimate goal is nothing but code factorization. Metaprogramming in
Python? The same thing.

A CS professor friend of mine once said: "all problems in CS are
solved by just one more level of indexing," which has been very true
in my experience. I would like to say further that if someone truly
understands factorization and applies it at every moment, then he/she
should not only be awarded a Ph.D. in CS but perhaps also a Nobel
Prize. :)

Hung Jung


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Mar 29 04:50:08 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 01:50:08 -0800
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<mailman.468.1080376058.742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2A7F76.07570527032004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2jS9c.58187$cx5.18518@fed1read04>

> What does stacklessness do for me as an application programmer?

The first thing is lack of recursion limits.  Later you will find
continuations and other cool things.

Mark Hahn (Prothon Author)

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-2A7F76.07570527032004 at reader1.panix.com...
> "Jon Franz" <jfranz at neurokode.com> wrote:
> > What I found interesting was:
> >  - the stackless-ness
>
> What does stacklessness do for me as an application programmer?




From claird at lairds.com  Tue Mar 16 09:21:36 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:21:36 -0000
Subject: Tkinter3000
References: <mailman.13.1079398001.742.python-list@python.org>
	<105cr4i7evg2gce@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <105e3bgll8cpq23@corp.supernews.com>

In article <105cr4i7evg2gce at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
>"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
			.
			.
			.
>> What a pitty. Is there some project to document Tkinter?
>
>"Python and Tkinter Programming" by Grayson (Manning 2000)
>is still availible. It's a bit long in the tooth, but it's still a very
>good guide.
			.
			.
			.
'Couple of us were just talking about setting up a Tkinter
mailing list and Wiki.  Should we?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Mar 14 14:46:19 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:46:19 -0600
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
In-Reply-To: <20040314191047.15699.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040314180105.GB7397@unpythonic.net>
	<20040314191047.15699.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040314194619.GE7397@unpythonic.net>

4M files are not that big these days.

def reversed_file(name, encoding):
    contents = codecs.open(name, "r", encoding).read()
    contents = list(contents)
    contents.reverse()
    return "".join(contents)

Example:
>>> codecs.open("utf-example.txt", "r", "utf-8").read()
u'60: CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS (0x4E00 - 0x9FFF)   | \u4e25\u5f25\u6f25\n'
>>> reversed_file("utf-example.txt", "utf-8")
u'\n\u6f25\u5f25\u4e25 |   )FFF9x0 - 00E4x0( SHPARGOEDI DEIFINU KJC :06'

This assumes that you know the encoding for each file in advance, and
that Python has a codec for it.

Jeff



From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sat Mar  6 07:53:57 2004
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:53:57 +0000
Subject: Writing dictionary output to a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1078564978.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.54.1078564978.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4049c9ea_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>

i use this to save and reload a dict, slower than pickling but you get a human 
readable file and its soooo simple.


a={1:'one',2:'two'}
 >>> a
{1: 'one', 2: 'two'}


# to save to dict.txt
 >>> print >>file('dict.txt','w+'),str(a)


# to reload
 >>> exec('b=dict('+file('dict.txt','r').read()+')')


 >>> b
{1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
 >>>


From google at neilson.sent.com  Sun Mar  7 20:48:49 2004
From: google at neilson.sent.com (Daniel H Neilson)
Date: 7 Mar 2004 17:48:49 -0800
Subject: Question on loops
Message-ID: <e0bff448.0403071748.352848e2@posting.google.com>

I am a newcomer to python, and am not really much more than a hack at
the other languages I speak, so forgive me if this is an easy
question.

I am processing a text file, taking an action based on what I find in
each line. Independently of what the file contains, I need to take
another action every 100 lines. Currently I am using something to the
effect of:

i = 0
for line in file:
    if i == 100:
        action
        i = 0
    else:
        i += 1
    process(line)

But this doesn't feel like a very python-esque solution to me, and is
not very elegant in any case. What would be a better way to do it?

Thanks.


From whamblen at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 13:44:53 2004
From: whamblen at yahoo.com (Bill Hamblen)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 10:44:53 -0800
Subject: Python newbie asking for help
Message-ID: <bd37f143.0403241044.2add9a5c@posting.google.com>

Hi,
                                                                                
I'm teaching myself Python for fun.  I've picked a little project that
is interesting to me.  I've made some progress over the last couple
nights, mostly reading Guido's tutorial, but I think it would go a lot
more quickly if I had some advice from experienced Python programmers.
I think what I really need is a suggestion on the best data structure(s)
to use.  Here's what I am doing.
                                                                                
I have three files with csv records (lines).  We can have column headers
at the top of each file if that helps.  The first field in each record
is a name; otherwise the files mostly contain different data.  I'd like
to create unique id numbers (in a new column) so that names which appear
in more than one file have the same id number in each file.  And of
course every line in every file should end up with an id number.
                                                                                
The catch is that while most names will appear in every file, some will
not.  Worse yet, there are names that will have different forms in
different files (e.g.  Smith_Bill and Smith_William).  That last group I
would like to "manually" process.  Maybe by popping up a tkinter listbox
with all records that match "Smith".  Then I could select the ones which
*really* match and give them a uniform id number.
                                                                                
The good news is that I have already made sure that there are no
duplicate name fields in any one file.
                                                                                
Speed is a total non-issue here since it only has to run once for a
given set of files.  And no, this is not for merging spam lists!  :-)
I'm trying to make it easier to merge sets of projected statistics for
fantasy baseball every spring.  I do most of the processing in a
spreadsheet but I thought indexing the sets of projections would be a
fun way to learn Python.
                                                                                
I read each file into a list of lists (using a csv module for Python
2.2).  I've already added a new first column to hold the id number (so
name is now in the second column).  For example, lst1 looks like this:
                                                                                
[['', 'name1_fname', 'team', 'pos, ...],['', 'name2_fname', ...], ...]
                                                                                
I've got two search functions: one which looks for exact name matches
and one which looks for last name matches (which I now notice needs to
be made insensitive to capitalization).

def search_exact(l, c, v):
   result=[]
   for r in l:
      if r[c] == v:
         result.append(r)
   return result
                                                                                
def search_lastname(l, c, v):
   result=[]
   for r in l:
      if split(r[c],'_')[0] == v:
         result.append(r)
   return result
                                                                                
The main loop
                                                                                
id = 0
for lst in [lst1, lst2, lst3]:
   for row in lst:
      if row[0] <> '':  #if it already has an id, skip it
         continue
      else:
         match=[]
         for ls in [lst1, lst2, lst3]:
            tmp = search_exact(ls, 1, row[1])
            if tmp <> []:
               match.append(tmp)
         if len(match) == 3:
            #every file had one exact match
            #so assign an id number
            for i in match:
               i[0] = id
               id = id + 1
         else:
            match = []
            for ls in [lst1, lst2, lst3]:
               tmp = search_lst(ls, 1, split(row[1],'_')[0])
               if tmp <> []:
                  match.append(tmp)
            #pop up a tkinter window and manually select matches
            #assign an id number to selected entries
#write out modified files
                                                                                
The problem I ran into is that the objects in "match" are not references
to the actual data in the lstX structures but copies.  So I cannot just
change the id field the way I have things written.  Based on my reading
I thought all the operations I used worked with references but I clearly
missed something.
                                                                                
So, I'm getting the feeling that there is probably a *much* better way
to do this.  :-) Any suggestions?
                                                                                
 - Bill


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Fri Mar 19 13:01:04 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:01:04 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
In-Reply-To: <7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c3fcmn$r3f$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> What's Random.random(self) supposed to do?

Generate a random number using the Mersenne Twister random number generator.

>>        ciphertxt = md5.new(plaintxt).digest()
> 
> I think you mean update.

Perhaps yes, perhaps no.  Certainly the digest of both are dependant on 
two inputs (the current internal state of MD5 and the random number 
generated by MT).  However, unless you can store the series of updates 
to MD5, then getstate() followed by setstate() would not be sufficient 
to get the same series of random numbers.  This is also a "possible 
issue" shared by the double-sha algorithm.

> But doesn't support all the operations specified in the Random API.
> What's up with that?

That is what the subclass was for:
 > class MD5Random(Random):

  - Josiah


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 27 23:43:22 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 04:43:22 GMT
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<196cb7af.0403270606.520c617@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406658F5.9F62DF55@doe.carleton.ca>

Jim Keenan wrote:
> 
> You are at Carleton University, which was the site of Yet
> Another Perl Conference::Canada in May 2003.  So you have an excellent
> pool of local Perl experts to draw upon -- and there are many more not
> far away in Montreal, Toronto and Kitchener/Waterloo.  Look them up
> via http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.html .


Thanks for the pointer, Jim.

Fred


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 30 22:43:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:43:40 -0600
Subject: tabbing probs
In-Reply-To: <4068AD29.6020907@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>
	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
	<406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106glq882vcn659@news.supernews.com>
	<4068AD29.6020907@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <16490.15980.814876.690888@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michael> An editor is crappy if it inserts anything other than what you
    Michael> type into the code.  If I press tab and four spaces are
    Michael> inserted that is crap.

Not if that's what I asked it to do.  I have python-mode in Emacs set to use
4-space indents and only insert SPACE characters, not TAB characters.
Pressing the TAB key while the cursor is at the beginning of line inserts or
deletes enough SPACEs to put the cursor at the correct indentation for the
current line (based upon the indentation and content of the previous line).

    Michael> If I press 'A' and 'a' is inserted that is crap. 

not if I placed my editor in e.e. cummings mode...

    Michael> To me, it sounds as if this entire issue is caused by crappy
    Michael> editors that think they know better than the programmers. 

It has nothing to do with the editors considered in isolation.  By in large
they are doing exactly what the programmers ask them to do.  The problem is
with the interchange of program files between unlike systems (via whatever
means: email, CVS checkins, grabbing from a web page, etc) which have tools
(editors in particular) which interpret TAB characters differently based
upon how the programmers have configured them.  To the best of my knowledge
no systems interpret SPACE characters in weird ways, so using them to
indicate indentation is the only foolproof solution.

Skip



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Mar  4 01:53:53 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:53:53 +0200
Subject: design pattern
In-Reply-To: <11c08e94.0403031832.5050dad8@posting.google.com>
References: <11c08e94.0403031832.5050dad8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4046D281.9010503@zoran.com>

franz wrote:

> http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/krauth/pattern_survey/pattern_survey
I get:
[ Error: Unable to open template 
/usr/local/httpd/baseportal/kr/au/krauth/pattern_survey/pattern_survey.htx.

Reasons: The specified template does not exist or you don't have the 
rights to access it. Maybe you have just mistyped the name?

Solutions: 1. Correct the name. 2. Log into your private domain, choose 
the appropriate template, click on 'Management' and change the rights 
settings. ]

powered by baseportal.com
Get your own Web Database - for FREE!

Miki


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Thu Mar 25 11:31:35 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:31:35 +0100
Subject: Decoding numerical and name based HTML entities
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F0068A10A4@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Hi all,

what would be the easiest way in Python to decode HTML entities to a unicode
string? I would need a function that supports both numerical as well as name
based HTML entities.

I already did some googling, but I only found a function that decoded
numerical ones, and this function didn't support unicode...

Cheers,


pieter

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From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  8 09:50:11 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:50:11 +0100
Subject: py2exe - COM Server problem
References: <bb8e48c9.0403080549.247efa4f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fzcjgzq4.fsf@python.net>

paul.kemp at standardbank.com (Paul) writes:

> Hi all
>
> I've been trying to build a COM Server as an executable using Py2exe. 
> I had a few problems, so I came back to using Thomas Heller's basic
> example (copied below).  When I build this, I still get an error.  I
> can register Python.TestServer (testcomserver.exe --register),
> however, when I try to create an instance of it (e.g. using VBA), a
> command prompt window appears with the title:
>
> d:\...\testcomserver.exe /automate
>
> And the command prompt window just sits there!  Eventually, VBA times
> out.
>
> I really don't understand, because I've succeeded with COM servers and
> Py2Exe in the past, and have never seen this before.
>
> Can anyone help?

I guess that recent changes in pywin32 have broken this (very old) code
you mention.  You should upgrade to Python 2.3 (if you haven't already),
a recent pywin32 build, and to py2exe 0.5.

This version of py2exe contains an example COM server in the
samples\advanced directory - it builds an exe and dll server from the
win32com.servers.interp com example code.

Basically, this 3-line setup script is all that you need, there are no
changes needed to the com server code:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(com_server = ["win32com.servers.interp"])

You can most certainly make the dist folder much smaller by excluding
the pywin package from the build:

python setup.py py2exe --excludes pywin

Thomas




From kbk at shore.net  Sat Mar 13 02:16:57 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:16:57 GMT
Subject: Exiting Tkinter when using IDLE
References: <mailman.279.1079027533.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<4050E31D.EEB18C9F@pobox.com>
	<c2ro0h$2sn$1@news.tue.nl> <40520D71.C267B44@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87u10t2p3q.fsf@hydra.localdomain>

Jason Harper <JasonHarper at pobox.com> writes:

> Here's a little inconsistency that had me really confused for a
> while: IDLE, when run from the Start menu (Win2K Pro, Python 2.3.3),
> uses a subprocess.  IDLE, when run via "Open in IDLE" in a .py*
> file's right-click menu, does NOT use a subprocess.  I haven't
> tracked down just where this difference is coming from.

Right now, we only allow one copy of the IDLE subprocess, because the
socket port is hard coded.  The specification of the -n switch is in
the Windows Explorer File Types assignment.  We did that deliberately
because people often click on several .py files to view them and that
tried to start several copies of IDLE + subprocess, which failed.

You can have as many copies of IDLE without the subprocess as you
like, but they aren't nearly as useful for code development.

The plan is to remove the hard coding of the port so several copies of
IDLE + subprocess can run simultaneously.  I am delaying that until I'm
pretty sure that the subprocess is well behaved under all conditions.

-- 
KBK


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Mar 20 10:06:43 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:06:43 -0600
Subject: Regular Expression AND mach
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403200303.5eae6726@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0403190721.6bdcbfbe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.161.1079716498.742.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403200303.5eae6726@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040320150642.GA24288@unpythonic.net>

You didn't tell us you were looking for full-text indexing.

This may be what you want, as your database grows:
http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Lupy/

I haven't used it.  The only two full-text indexing packages I've used
are Glimpse and Swish-E.  I still use Swish-E daily to search in a
2.5 million line software product.  On a reasonably fast machine, it can
find 37 instances of the phrase "int main" in 1.2 seconds.

It's no google, but it works great.  Calling out to it from Python
should pose no great difficulty.

Jeff



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 13:10:53 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:10:53 +0000
Subject: Need better string methods
References: <0d4k40987t6d70bahqil3geth640bufgoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87dm4019o6hmjjgj8cpe1m41fk353mj0ig@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:01:16 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com>
wrote:

># Ruby:
># clean = line.chomp.strip('.').squeeze.split(/\s*\|\s*/)
>
>This is pretty straight-forward once you know what each of the methods
>do.
>
># Current best Python:
>clean = [' '.join(t.split()).strip('.') for t in line.split('|')]

So what you are saying is that non-programmers just naturally
understand what "/\s*\|\s*/" means!

I kind of agree with you about the join method - I far prefer the now
deprecated function. But it's not much of a problem - you don't _have_
to use method-call syntax for Python, just get the unbound method from
the class and call it with the object as the first parameter...

>>> str.join (' ', ['a', 'b', 'c'])
'a b c'

I guess I see the advantage in the Ruby form. It can of course be
replicated in Python using a library, but being able to handle the
task as neatly by default would be a plus.

So, how about this...

>>> line.lstrip ('.'); re.sub (' +', ' ', _).strip (); re.split (' ?\| ?', _)
'/bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n'
'/bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7 | John Anderson'
['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']



Using ';' and '_', you can chain any functions or methods you want.
The downsides are (1) it only works at the command line, and (2) you
get intermediate results displayed.

A temporary variable can handle both issues, of course...

>>> t=line.lstrip('.'); t=re.sub(' +', ' ', t).strip(); re.split(' ?\| ?', t)
['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']


or, to save some hassle...

>>> def squeeze (p) :
...   return re.sub (' +', ' ', p)
...
>>> t=line.lstrip('.'); t=squeeze(t).strip(); re.split(' ?\| ?', t)
['/bgref/stats.stf', 'SPICE', '3.2.7', 'John Anderson']


On this basis, perhaps it would be useful to support the '_' variable
outside of the command line, and maybe to suppress all but the last
result when ';' is used on the command line.

OTOH, as you suggest, maybe we could use some extra string methods.
With an equivalent to the Ruby 'squeeze' and support for regular
expression methods, we could write...

line.strip().lstrip('.').squeeze().resplit(' ?\| ?')

Which is very much like the Ruby example.

Finally, it seems to me that this kind of tidy-and-split is probably a
common requirement. The split is easy enough, but after pondering
Robert Brewers argument I wondered if maybe a specialised tidying
class could do the job...

import re

class cleaner :
  steps = []

  def lstrip (self, *args) :
    self.steps.append (lambda s : s.lstrip (*args))
    return self

  def rstrip (self, *args) :
    self.steps.append (lambda s : s.rstrip (*args))
    return self

  def strip (self, *args) :
    self.steps.append (lambda s : s.strip (*args))
    return self

  def squeeze (self) :
    pat = re.compile (' +')
    self.steps.append (lambda s : pat.sub (' ', s))
    return self

  def resub (self, regex, rep) :
    pat=re.compile (regex)
    self.steps.append (lambda s : pat.sub (rep, s))
    return self

  def clean (self, p) :
    for i in self.steps :
      p = i (p)
    return p

line = "..../bgref/stats.stf| SPICE | 3.2.7  | John    Anderson  \n"

mycleaner = cleaner().lstrip(".").strip()            \
                     .squeeze().resub(' ?\| ?','|')

print mycleaner.clean(line).split("|")


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar  1 09:08:51 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:08:51 -0600
Subject: Determining the encoding of a text file
In-Reply-To: <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8@posting.google.com>
References: <85b5e3f8.0403010224.939e8f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16451.17395.56056.567475@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    rajorshi> How do I determine the encoding of a text file ? That is,
    rajorshi> given a text file I want to know the encoding it is in UTF8 or
    rajorshi> UTF16 or Latin etc. It would be very helpful if you could tell
    rajorshi> me how to do this in python on Linux. But just the method is
    rajorshi> acceptable.

In general this is not possible.  You can guess using heuristics, but there is
no predefined file attribute that indicates a file's encoding.

If you have a small set of candidate encodings you can generally do a decent
job guessing the encoding of a string by considering them in order.  I placed
an example on my Python Bits page: <http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/>.  I
don't claim it's perfect and it's really only concerned with distiguishing
utf-8 and a few encodings which are similar to iso-8859-1, but it does a
decent job for me given the types of inputs I see.

Skip



From axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 14 09:21:45 2004
From: axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de (Axel Koehler)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:21:45 +0100
Subject: Start and control an extern program
References: <kpd67jfdk4.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>
	<4051087D.1050409@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <kp4qsr5x1i.fsf@rosebud.gp.tu-berlin.de>

Helo Miki,

thank you for your help. 

Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> writes:

> Hello Axel,
>
>> I want to start an extern program  and simple stop it, after a
>> given time, if not succesfull finished.  OS is Linux
> Use a Timer object and os.kill.

But what is a timer objekt? Can't find it in my documentation 
of the python library.

Axel

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
Dipl. Ing. Axel K"ohler,   axel.koehler at tu-berlin.de      Tel: 030-314 73141
TU Berlin, FAK I,  Sekr. FR 3-15,  Franklinstr. 28-29           10587 Berlin


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 09:51:07 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:51:07 GMT
Subject: MySQL/PYTHON
References: <mailman.2.1078354064.772.python-list@python.org><30260531.0403032110.35425635@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.7.1078461675.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vt02c.40535$TF2.17331@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>


same here.

"Michael" <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.7.1078461675.19534.python-list at python.org...
> I've used MySQLdb with Python for quite some time and have been very
> pleased with it. It is quite easy to use and I've had no stability
> issues with using it.
>
> >>From what I've seen, PostgreSQL is more widely supported than MySQL
under Python.
> >
> >
>
>




From lilyth at umich.edu  Thu Mar 18 18:07:58 2004
From: lilyth at umich.edu (Lilith)
Date: 18 Mar 2004 15:07:58 -0800
Subject: Is there a map or graph module?
Message-ID: <75200cbc.0403181507.350feeb7@posting.google.com>

Is there a python module somewhere (been searching today, no luck)
which has efficiently coded various graph-handling routines, such as
finding the shortest path through a graph, or the set of all paths
through a graph? I'm not a compsci-educated person, so coding my own
would be less parsimonious.

Thanks for any suggestions!

D


From niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu  Fri Mar 19 13:09:00 2004
From: niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu (niurka.perez at cimex.com.cu)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:00 -0500
Subject: static variables?
Message-ID: <0403191079.AA1079721270@ws3.cimex.com.cu>

How can I have a static variable in a python class in a similar fashion as I
have them in Java?
I just want a share the same information in all the instances of a class and if
one of the instances changes this information, the rest of them will notice the
changes.
I've been looking for this for a while and I'll appreciate your help
Niurka




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Mar 12 03:54:11 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:11 GMT
Subject: Question concerning Unicode and or Shift-JIS
References: <4050f410$0$40740$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <TUe4c.99533$Wa.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Antioch:

> however the problem is I don't know how to "decode" the UTF and then
> recode it into Shift-JIS so that I can compare the dictionary values with
> the input values.

   I don't have a Shift-JIS codec installed so this breaks but should work
if you have the codec installed:

y = '\xe3\x81\x8b\xe3\x82\x8f\xe3\x81\x95\xe3\x81\x8d'
print y
print repr(y)
u = unicode(y, "utf-8")
print repr(u)
s = u.encode("shift-jis")
print s

   Neil




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  5 10:24:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:24:37 -0500
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1078498545.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.21.1078498545.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9oSdnRDo7cgrBtXdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

jon c wrote:

> some idoit wrote a perl script that executes a java program using the 
> system command.
> 
> All seemed fine, except when I run I find that the character string is 
> too long?
> 
> the identical command can be run by perls system call.
> why does perl work and not python?

Post code samples, so people have a clue what you are talking about.
How long is the character string?  How long is the command line limit on 
the operating system you are using?

-Peter


From bogus at bogus.net  Wed Mar  3 06:22:56 2004
From: bogus at bogus.net (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:22:56 GMT
Subject: best way to read a configuration file
References: <2dy8qimiwq.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <kej1c.29806$qo.12839@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Karthikesh Raju" <karthik at james.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:2dy8qimiwq.fsf at itl-pc87.hut.fi...
>
> Hi All,
>
> i am wondering about the best way to read in a configuration file that
> goes like:
>
> ###########
>
> [users]
> source_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/python'
> data_dir   = '/home/karthik/Projects/data'
> result_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/Results'
> param_file = $result_dir/param_file
> res_file   = $result_dir/result_file
> comment    = 'this is a comment'
>
> K = 8
> simulate_K = 0
>
> N = 4000
> mod_scheme = 'QPSK'
>
> Na = K+2
>
> ######################
>
> As of now i use config parser and i get this in a dictionary but
>
> a) but i have users.na and not users.Na (all the fields are in lower
>    case)
>
> b) all the rhs arguements are string, but i have handled this by
>    trying " try eval(rhs) ... except ..." block
>
> c) Na = 'K+2' though does not work, would like to have Na = 10, but i
>    get users.na = 'K+2'
>
> d) result_file, param_file should actually be should be with pathname
>    extensions filled in.
>
> Have looked in c.l.py none one ofthe suggestions was to use
> splitlines, this cant handle blank lines, other was to have config.py
> ..
>
> Hope to get some solution for this ..
>
> with warm regards
>
> karthik
>
>
> -- 
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Karthikesh Raju,     email: karthik at james.hut.fi
> Researcher,     http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
> Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
> Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
> Department of Computer Sc.,
> P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
> Espoo, FINLAND
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Mar 31 08:05:34 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:05:34 -0500
Subject: proper use of braces in Python (was: Prothon Prototypes vs
	Python Classes)
References: <mailman.152.1080695131.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106lgippu0ovc36@news.supernews.com>


"Jim Benson" <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.152.1080695131.20120.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Michael wrote:
>
> >
> > >>Right.  Then we can have "does the brace go on the same line or the
> > >>next line" wars.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >    int main (void)
> > >    {
> > >        if (true)
> > >        {
> > >        }
> > >
> > >        return 0;
> > >    }
> > >
> > >There is no other way.
> > >
> > >
> > No way, that wastes an entire line of code with a single brace!
> >
> > int main ( void ) {
> >     if ( true ) {
> >         return 1;
> >     }
> >     return 0;
> > }
> >
> > This is clearly better. Compact yet easy to read. I try formatting my
> > Python code exactly like this and it always complains about my braces..
> > clearly wrong.
> >
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> ...just a food for thought from a Python list lurker.
> I have always been a strong adherent to the
>
> if (true) {
>
> }
>
> form. Not too long ago on this list (i think it was),
> someone pointed out that you never see:
>
> If (true) BEGIN:
>
> END
>
> humm...i thought, your right, in that case i guess
> i would probably write the BEGIN on a different
> line...not sure what indention of the END
> i would choose.

You don't need the BEGIN. Seriously. This is one
of the things Metz got right in Ruby: except for one
special case, the compiler can tell when you start
a block -- as long as your language doesn't special
case such things as empty blocks and single statements
that, somehow, aren't blocks.

You do need the semantic equivalent of END, though.
Whether that's indentation or a keyword is a language
issue.

The special case is, of course, the literal block where
the syntax allows a function reference. That does need
to be distinguished somehow.

John Roth



> Jim
>
>
>




From claird at lairds.com  Wed Mar 17 19:04:53 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:04:53 -0000
Subject: Help on Tkinter installation
References: <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick@venango.upb.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <105hpt53kagaj67@corp.supernews.com>

In article <slrnc5hli1.lpk.slimick at venango.upb.pitt.edu>,
John Slimick  <slimick at pitt.edu> wrote:
>I want to do a little Tkinter in my 1 credit 
>python practicum, but I am having problems
>getting everything installed correctly.
>A sample of the problem is below:
>
>
>------------------- The python source, test.py ------------------
>from graphics import *
>
>def main():
>    win = GraphWin("My Circle", 100, 100)
>    c = Circle(Point(50,50), 10)
>    c.draw(win)
>
>main()
>
>----------- result of $python test.py --------------------------
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "test.py", line 1, in ?
>    from graphics import *
>  File "/home/slimick/cs198/graphics.py", line 85, in ?
>    import Tkinter
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
>  ImportError: No module named _tkinter
>
>------------result of $locate _tkinter ------------------------------
>
>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp
>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Build/_dummy_tkinter.mcp.exp
>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Mac/Modules/_dummy_tkinter.c
>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/Modules/_tkinter.c
>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PC/os2vacpp/_tkinter.def
>/usr/src/redhat/SOURCES/Python-2.3.2/PCbuild/_tkinter.dsp
			.
			.
			.
More pertinent than your source code, which, to the best of my
understanding, has multiple difficulties, is information about
the host on which you're attempting to run it.  I'm guessing 
it's a RedHat Linux ...  I'd think easiest for you would be to
rely on ActivePython <URL:
http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/wiki/How_20to_20install_20Tkinter >.

I'm curious about how you decided to start with the program you've
exhibited above.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Mar 20 07:30:21 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:30:21 -0500
Subject: Package name with '.' in them: Python Bug ?
References: <c3f1ac$n29$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<mailman.163.1079717552.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3fd5j$mlg$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
	<pan.2004.03.19.20.11.31.882355@fn.com.au>
	<c3frti$2v88$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <105oecrlrm4r9e9@news.supernews.com>

"Yannick Patois" <patois at calvix.org> wrote in message
news:c3frti$2v88$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> Stephen Robert Norris wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:12:03 +0100, Yannick Patois wrote:
> > The only potential bug here is that perhaps python should have raised an
> > error when the import happened.

Actually, I tend to agree this would be a nice thing. This
part of import isn't executed so frequently that it would
pose a performace issue.

John Roth




From http  Sun Mar 21 18:16:02 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 15:16:02 -0800
Subject: SHA-based subclass for random module
References: <7xptbgjpk4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403190105.69ca83e7@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhxtast.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403192207.1389f4bb@posting.google.com>
	<7x8yhvnfba.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0403211310.15764495@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x4qshn64t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> >  If we're selecting a PRNG for a third
> > time, let's stop cutting corners and take care of the problem once and
> > for all.
> 
> No corners were cut.  MT is a state-of-the-art psuedo random number
> generator.  The problem is that you want encryption.

This sha prng module was motivated partly by your own remark in sf bug
#901285 that MT output may not be sufficiently correlation-free if you
take pairs of 16-bit integers from it, in a context having nothing to
do with encryption.  Anyway, despite how it may sound, I don't have
any desire to use the random module for encryption (I'd use different
API's for that).  I just want to be able to write applications that
use random numbers without having any doubts about whether the random
numbers are good enough.  Teukolsky et al in "Numerical Recipes",
which is not a cryptography book, explain that a good way to do that
is to use cryptographic primitives, so I'm proposing a module that
does it that way.  

The application in numerics could be something like: I run some
half-hour simulation using MT, and get results that subjectively seem
a bit peculiar.  So I run it again using the crypto-based generator
and maybe that takes three hours, but if I still see similarly
peculiar-looking results, I now can be pretty confident that it's not
some consequence of the RNG internals.  It subjectively seems to me
that the Gnome version of Freecell is easier to play than the Windows
version (i.e. it deals easier hands), so that's a semi-real-world
example of this situation.  (In this instance I suspect Freecell is
using some pathetic linear PRNG or something like that, but I haven't
yet bothered to look at the code).

There's also some applications (like online games) that need secure
random numbers, as mentioned in 917055.  The people implementing these
things usually aren't even thinking about cryptography.

> > No, I wanted cryptographic strength to both the left and right,
> 
> That makes sense.  Still, the hashing step protects you.  Given a
> series of 10,000 bits from the generator, do you have any means of
> deducing either a) the state of MT, b) what came before, or c) what
> comes after?

Cryptographic strength to the left means I shouldn't be able to
recover what came before, even given the current output of getstate()
on the generator (see the Yarrow paper for some rationale for wanting
this protection).  I haven't seen any claim that MT was designed to
resist that.

I'm not adamant that this is a crucial property of a deterministic
PRNG; I implemented it because I saw it as straightforward to do and
figured it might as well be included, so that we can say that we did
the most thorough possible job, followed the Yarrow paper's
prescriptions, etc.  If there's a deliberate decision to abandon the
property, that can make the generator a bit simpler and faster, and
I'm willing to code one that way for purposes of comparison.  I just
don't think such decisions should be driven by implementation
accidents.  (They should also be documented).

> I'm keeping an open mind but will abandon this patch unless the tone
> improves.

I don't mean to bash anyone and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
As I see it, the Random module provides an extensible API so that it's
easy to add different kinds of generators that the user can select
from depending on his or her needs.  It then supplies the WH generator
(I guess for backwards compatibility) and the MT generator (for
reasonably good output and very high performance).  The philosophy of
this sha module (as I see it) is to supply a third alternative in that
same flexible spirit: one that goes all-out to make the best possible
output, even if that results in only reasonable performance, while
also having increased portability through use of a standard underlying
primitive.  Do you also see that as an appropriate goal?  If not, we
should try to identify exactly what we're trying to do instead.


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Mon Mar  1 23:50:10 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:50:10 GMT
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<Xns949F97A58E5FArzed@63.223.5.95>
	<c209n0$cit$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns949FF2BD1BE73rzed@63.223.5.95>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in
news:c209n0$cit$1 at news.service.uci.edu: 

>> I've wondered, though, whether there couldn't be a different 
>> character instead of a ',' to alter the behavior of print.
>> Maybe a trailing '+' to indicate that what follows is to
>> concatenate directly. 
>> 
>> And yet I've been able to work around that little annoyance;
>> it's not that there is no way to format output the way you
>> want. 
> 
> 
> It seems that you are saying:
> 
> print "hello ", "world" +   #-> "hello world"
> 
> That looks like "magic syntax", and should rightfully return a
> syntax error, because + already has a meaning for most all data
> types in Python.  Changing the behavior of print when a syntax
> error is present, is the wrong thing to do.
> 
> The right thing to do (if it were to happen at all) is to make 
> fileobject.softspace "sticky" under some condition, perhaps
> after a call to fileobject.SetSoftSpace(False) (which doesn't
> currently exist). 
>

I'm not sure I agree with this entirely. The comma following a 
print statement is a sort of magic syntax as it is; it changes the 
behavior of the unadorned print statement in a way that has very 
little to do with any syntactical meaning a comma would normally 
have. The idle thought I mentioned above would just use a different 
symbol to alter the behavior of print in a slightly different 
fashion. What I actually had in mind, adapting your example, was 
something a little different:
print "hello" + 
print "nwheels"  #-> "hellonwheels" 

If a '+' is problematic, it could be some other character. If I use 
a print statement in a Python program, from my viewpoint, a 
trailing comma signals suppression of newline and adding a space. 
In this scenario, a trailing <insert acceptable character here> 
would suppress the newline but not add a space. There's not much 
difference there.

Having said all that, I'll add that I don't see this as a big 
issue, and I don't find it a burden to use an alternative syntax to 
achieve the same effect. I don't know how to tell if it's a right 
or wrong thing to do. If it were a feature of the language, I'd 
probably use it. I've never really understood what it is about the 
print statement that bothers some people; it's always seemed 
reasonably useful and reasonably intuitive to me. Maybe every 
language is destined to have irregular verbs.
 

-- 
rzed



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Mar 26 19:12:12 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:12:12 -0600
Subject: Python & Optical Mark Recognition
Message-ID: <A4ednU9SGbNJW_ndRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

Anybody out there done anything with Optical
Mark Recognition (OMR)?  I have a potential project
that requires OMR add-in for existing Windows
based Python application.

Thanks in advance.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.




From likwoka at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 22:21:12 2004
From: likwoka at yahoo.com (Alex Li)
Date: 1 Mar 2004 19:21:12 -0800
Subject: Multi-user quiz show game
References: <ea2ed14f.0403011151.406ab5ec@posting.google.com>
	<20040301161835.20170.00000686@mb-m27.aol.com>
Message-ID: <ea2ed14f.0403011921.4c412ffc@posting.google.com>

> 
> I'll let the experts answer this one. But I have a question. Do you rule out a
> http server ? If I were doing this I would avoid the apparent complexity
> wxpython and just use standard html and javascript to pass the answers to the
> server. The python script could record time it got the "get" and return it with
> the validation.
> 
> 
> allen

Thanks, Allen!  Your solution is actually quite attractive, as it just
simplify the whole thing a lot....  I would consider it very
seriously...

Thanks again,
Alex


From jsbenson at bensonsystems.com  Thu Mar 11 23:37:31 2004
From: jsbenson at bensonsystems.com (John Benson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:37:31 -0800
Subject: put your money where your mouse is,
	or why I prefer Spanish to English: a proposal
Message-ID: <082d01c407eb$bb8dfc10$210110ac@jsbwxp3>

Everybody talks about how much better Python is than Lisp, C++, Java or
whatever else because it's so much cleaner, looks like pseudocode only it's
executable and all the cool guys are using it because of this and other
advantages.

I propose that we change the language of this board to Spanish, as long as
we're so vocally committed to using best-of-breed languages. Derived from
the Iberian dialect of vulgar Latin, Spanish has many important advantages
over English:

1) It's executable phonetic code: how it's written is how you pronounce it.
English suffers from a bewildering array of rules and counterexamples in
matters of pronunciation.

2) It's a widely supported standard. A Spanish speaker from Tierra del Fuego
can understand somebody from Madrid with little difficulty. Many dialects of
English, however, are often incomprehensible to other English speakers, like
Cockney, 'Strine and HBHE (High-Baudrate Hindustani English).

3) Spanish has less monosyllabic words than English. Programmers paid by the
hour should be intrigued by this opportunity to augment their income. Also,
the same amount of actual progress will take longer to report, conveying the
impression that more has actually been accomplished.

4) It hasn't been thrown together from the motley of influences that make
English such a potpourri (from the French for "rotten stew"). Oops! Like I
said, English is too much a patchwork of other languages to qualify as a
natural venue for Pythonic discourse.

& cetera.

Thinly-veiled threat: If this board doesn't immediately cut over to Spanish
because it is obviously superior to English, I shall be forced to consider
its badmouthing of other computer languages as just so much small-minded
special pleading.

P.S. The fact that I have an M.A. in Spanish has nothing to do with the fact
that Spanish is the best language for this board. I have recommended it
solely on its obvious and indisputable merits. In the spirit of magnanimity,
however, I will state in advance that anyone who disagrees with me is more
to be pitied than censured.





From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Thu Mar 25 16:03:33 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:03:33 +0100
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument
References: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <c3vhf5$jq4$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

No nice, but :

    def functionname( module, var1):
            exec("import "+module)
            print string.upper(var1)

    functionname('string', 'azerty')







From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Mar 13 16:44:43 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:44:43 -0800
Subject: need optimizing help
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561EE2@opus.amorhq.net>

rabbits77 wrote:
> > I have a dictionary with a very very large(possibly millions) of
> > key/value pairs.
> > The key is a tuple that looks like (id,date)
> > What is the fastest way to get out all of the values that match any
> > key given that they individual key elements are coming from two
> > seperate lists?
> > The approach of
> > for id in IDS:
> >     for date in dates:
> >         data=myDict[(id,date)]
> > 
> > seems to just take too long. Is there a speedier, more pythonic, way
> > of doing this? Any help speeding this up would be much appreciated!!

and I replied:
> If you're willing to handle some minor side-effects, one 
> common approach is an index layer via a nested dict;
> that is, instead of:
> 
> myDict[(id, date)] = value
> 
> ...you execute:
> 
> myIndex.setdefault(id, {})[date] = value

Postscript: it may be that your 'id' and 'date' values are properties of
whatever objects you're putting into the dictionary. If so, and you want
such a beast which does the indexing semi-automatically, try the Index
class I just made last week (ignore the Chain class--that solves a
different problem):

http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/index.html -> buckets.py

It uses parallel dictionaries, not nested ones...in your example, you
might write:

>>> import buckets
>>> import datetime
>>> class Thing(object):
... 	def __init__(self, id, date):
... 		self.id = id
... 		self.date = date
... 		
>>> myDict = buckets.Index('id', 'date')
>>> myDict.store(Thing(0, datetime.date(2004, 12, 25)))
>>> myDict.store(Thing(1, datetime.date(2004, 12, 26)))
>>> print myDict
{'date': {datetime.date(2004, 12, 25): [<__main__.Thing object at
0x01170390>], datetime.date(2004, 12, 26): [<__main__.Thing object at
0x011708B0>]}, 'id': {0: [<__main__.Thing object at 0x01170390>], 1:
[<__main__.Thing object at 0x011708B0>]}}

By the way, if any gurus out there have recommendations for improving
the Index class (even rewriting it in C), I'd love to hear them and see
something like it included in the Library.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 22 05:45:40 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:45:40 +0000
Subject: PEP 318
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <ipft50t3jq1c1mcfg6dvmd3gsj3lbr7t0u@4ax.com>

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:45:39 -0500, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> wrote:

>- Give a warning for all methods with first parameter not named "self" 
>in next versions of Python.
>- In a future major version of Python, 3 or 4, self becomes a keyword 
>and a first parameter named otherwise implies a class method (I 
>understand it could mean a lot of changes in code not using self).

The main problem I have with that is that some people find typing
'self.' over and over in member functions pretty annoying. I have
quite recently voiced the opinion that because 'self' is just a
convention, that it can reasonably be abbreviated to become something
like 's' or 'm', so that 'm.' in Python code plays much the same role
as 'm_' in common use as a prefix for member variable names in C++.

As I said then, I'm not that bothered about 'self.' - keeping to the
well-known convention and the principle of least surprise is to me
well worth pressing a few more keys. But I may have to deal with a few
grumpy people if that suggestion turns out bad :-(

If a more radical change is needed, then I would say we need an
alternative to the 'def' keyword. It could be justified as 'def just
defines normal functions - we can define them as class members and we
have a convenient system for using them as if they were methods but
that doesn't mean they really are methods'. 'True' methods would then
be defined using a 'method' keyword, and within a method 'self' might
be a pseudo-keyword.

In Python 3000, 'def' for member functions might then be deprecated.

Very unlikely, though.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From marklists at mceahern.com  Thu Mar 25 15:53:06 2004
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:53:06 -0500
Subject: How to import a module based on an argument
In-Reply-To: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07>
References: <cyH8c.3460$GH3.601@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <406346B2.6030709@mceahern.com>

Sean Berry wrote:

>I don't know that this partilarily bad programming, 
>but I was interested in doing the following.
>
>def functionname( module, var1, var2 ):
>	import module
>
>I would like to be able to pass the module name
>as an argument and have the module imported as a result.
>
>For instance... functionname( os, "1", 234)
>
>Thanks for any help.
>  
>
Checkout __import__.

// m



From ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 08:43:45 2004
From: ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com)
Date: 24 Mar 2004 05:43:45 -0800
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
Message-ID: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>

Hi, all

 I want to sort the list,the form of my list is

  name_city_list=[['jack','new york'],['mac','london'],['alice','paris']]

all inner list has same format i.e first is name and second is city.
now I want to sort it by the second element of the inner list(by city name).

i.e after sorting my list should be like this

  name_city_list=[['mac','london'],['jack','new york'],['alice','paris']]

how can I do this,

any way out ?


From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Thu Mar 18 23:57:43 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:57:43 -0800
Subject: [snip too-long subject]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.137.1079635624.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3dupu$dpo$1@news.service.uci.edu>

 >>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
**end quote**

[snip attached file information and comments]


> now, about the requests. i want to see python more symmetrical and 
> consistent. this way it could be advertised/marketed easier to places 
> with serious portability AND maintainability thinking, over other 
> pure-procedural languages. Is anyone is interested in that?

I'm all for Python being used in more places (as are most people here), 
but I am not for changing the language to suit someone's arbitrary 
opinion on what it should be.  You'll likely find others who are also 
against arbitrary changes that seem to suit an individual's sense of 
'what should happen'.  Read some of the "suggested changes" to syntax 
and behavior that others have offered here, and you'll notice a strong 
tendency for the suggestions to be generally disliked (if not loathed).

Guido and others in python-dev seem to be doing a pretty good job of 
keeping things together.  While Guido has some regrets (in terms of 
Python's behavior), he seems much happier than regretful, and I doubt 
many (if any) of your "suggestions" will go far, because I don't believe 
that /any/ of your suggestions are Pythonic.


> - i want the documentation to be fully interlinked (in current 
> hierarchy) and to have another alternative hierarchy - from usage-point 
> of view - if i say list, ALL about lists should be there, and not 
> separated in 3+ different places, so either a lot bookmarks are to be 
> kept, or 10+ clicks to get the next piece of info. Same goes for most 
> data/execution things. it can be done as simple links-only-layer - i 
> dont mind. Probably data-model and execution model are best to follow as 
> template.

I find that the documentation index 
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/genindex.html) to be quite 
useful, as well as google.

>  - order of variable assignments in class namespace to be offered/passed 
> to the metaclass, as separate argument or the (now dict) namespace 
> argument to be properly ordered iterable (moving the dict creation from 
> C into python metaclass - well, if any. type(name,bases,dictiterable) 
> can still do it in C). Order can be safely ignored if not needed.

I understand that for some reason this is important to you.  However, 
previous to your initial post about it, I've never heard of anyone 
having a need for the assignment order of class variables.  This 
suggests that very few people have a need for it, further shown by the 
fact that no one replied to your post saying, "hey, I've wanted to do 
this too, tell me if you figure it out".

I did reply to your post, if only because I thought you wanted 
/instance/ variable assignment order, which /has/ been brought up in 
other contexts.


> - i want somehow to turn the { MY order of dict values here } syntax 
> into as-is-ordered thing! Could be even with some pragma switch that 
> would create my dictOrder (or some builtin one) instead of internal 
> hashed mapping! This is equivalent to above, but for plain value dicts 
> (and not the attribute namespaces, represented as dicts). Function 
> keyword args can be another thing to keep order of - if required. (a 
> sort of execution-namespace control pragma)

Ordered mappings are probably not currently supported in Python because:
"Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."

Dictionaries are great.  Dictionaries are fast.  Lets not mess them up 
by slowing them down.


> - the notion of iterators/ generators, and notion of interfaces are so 
> powerful but so poorly advertised - and used. Now there is itertools - 
> PERFECT! but i have to import it while waster things like map() are 
> still sitting at plain view - hence - from lamer's point of view - 
> easier to use.

Perhaps you didn't mean "lamer", such a term is quite rude.  If you 
/did/ mean "lamer", then that would make you a "troll".

There are 12 functions in itertools.  Adding 1 built-in function takes 
the word of Guido.  Adding 12 built-in functions would likely take the 
word of most of the core developers of Python, and god.  The itertools 
module is the proper location, as determined by Guido and others in 
python-dev.

As for map and other builtins being in plain view, even if they are not 
iterators/generators, they are still useful.


> - what about try: finally: over generators? PEP288. gee, 50 lines of 
> iterator class instead of 5 with yield just becasue i _have_ to close a 
> file...

If it takes you 50 lines to close a file after yielding it, you're doing 
something wrong.

Checking the source code that you attached, you use yield once, which 
doesn't seem like it is iterating over file handles or file names.

Post the code in a reply, and I'm sure someone will show you how to 
clean it up.


> - all builtin functions that do not add value to the language as 
> language should move into separate module (e.g. map, zip, sum etc... vs 
> callable, isinstance, builtin type-constructors) and not be so 
> over-emphasized.

map, zip, sum, etc. are used in a large amount of production code. 
Moving them somewhere else would break every piece of code that uses 
them.  This is not going to happen soon, possibly ever.

If you don't like their location, create a module that modifies 
__builtins__ that gets imported by site.py.  Something like the 
following would work...

#my_confused_builtins.py

move_me = ['map', ...]
for i in move_me:
     exec("%s = __builtins__.%s"%(i,i))
     exec("del __builtins__.%s"%i)

#include the following line in site.py
import my_confused_builtins


> - all interfaces (not types!) - e.g. containers (__get/set/delitem) - 
> should be named 'interfaces' - now this is vaguely called 'customization'.

I don't know why they initially decided on "customization" for a name, 
perhaps it is because we are customizing the behavior of various 
operations on new objects.

FYI, almost all of the __ops__ are listed in the documentation for the 
operator module.


> - how do i check if x is iterable?

try:
     iter(x)
except:
     #x is not iterable

> - (i see this goes in python2.4, PEP289)  [snip comments]

PEP 289 has been accepted, so your comments on it are late.


> - IMO most funcs now needing a list or dict should be happy with proper 
> iterable. ( Eventualy funcs needing only iterable over single values may 
> have *args instead, and for key-balue tuples **kargs instead. but this 
> isnt that important.)

Where any iterable makes sense (and not just a list), the Python is 
moving that direction, and if all goes well, (I believe), that will be 
the case in the future.

For objects that need a dictionary, usually it is because they use a 
dictionary for its primary purpose, looking up and storing arbitrary 
values.  Certainly any arbitrary sequence or iterable can be used as a 
dictionary, but when people say dictionary, they usually mean something 
with (approximately) O(1) access time for any element, that can be 
queried and written to multiple times (you can only search an iterable 
once, and can't write at all).


> - i would like to be able to control somehow what constructors are 
> available for example to eval() - so i can patch them (operator *) - so 
> things like
[snip limitation argument]


Check the compiler module.  When you have an AST, you can do all the 
checks your heart desires.

There may be a project to create a restricted python execution 
environment for such tasks, but a better idea is to not allow eval() and 
exec() statements at all.


> - i want the list head/tail notation:
>   a, b, *c = somelisthere
>   apart of all else, it helps future maintenance and readability of the 
> program, and this IS important if python is to be used for serios things 
> in serios places. ah, i might like simmetrical thing for dicts but you 
> will not like it:
>   'a':var1, 'b':var2, **rest = dictionaryhere

I doubt Python is going here.  If you want head/tail of a list...

def head_tail_list(lst, count=1):
     return tuple([lst[i] for i in xrange(count)] + lst[count:])

a,b,c = head_tail_list(somelisthere, 2)


If you want the head/tail of a dict...

def head_tail_dict(dct, *items):
     return tuple([dct.pop(i) for i in items] + [dct])

var1, var2, rest = head_tail_dict(dictionaryhere, 'a', 'b')


Personally, I think that the syntax you give is ugly, and have had 
little need to do anything close to what you describe.  I've also not 
seen anyone who uses lisp-like car/cdr operations in Python.  One thing 
you should remember is that Python lists are actually arrays.  Pulling 
an element off the front is very wasteful (computationally).

Also considering that the functional equivalent to what you want is a 
1-liner in either case, I see little reason for any of this 
functionality to be included with Python now or in the future.


> [btw, anyone interested in very thin framework for UI-via-html-forms?
> all is in python, even the form description, html etc.
> it's 75%-done, with most things showable.]

Sounds neat.  Perhaps you should create a sourceforge.net project for it.

  - Josiah


From john at neggie.net  Wed Mar 24 13:20:04 2004
From: john at neggie.net (John Belmonte)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:20:04 -0500
Subject: portable /dev/null again
Message-ID: <4061D154.8090809@neggie.net>

Hello,

A few months ago, someone suggested the need for a portable equivalent 
to /dev/null in Python's libraries.  He was told it was too trivial an 
addition to the library, and to use something like:

     class nullFile:
         def write(self, data):
             pass

However, as the above does not present a full Python file object, it 
can't go everywhere that say, sys.stdout can go.  More specifically, it 
doesn't provide a file descriptor that may be required by low-level 
interfaces.

I wish an os.nullfile (or at least, os.nullfilename) was available so 
that I wouldn't have to think about this.

-John Belmonte


-- 
http:// if  ile.org/



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Mar 27 12:26:02 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:26:02 -0000
Subject: Choosing Perl/Python for my particular niche
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<40657D14.3FBE7E82@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106b7k2s8af5c3c@corp.supernews.com>
	<kJCdnZOwIr75JfjdRVn-gQ@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <106be9aroogdq77@corp.supernews.com>

In article <kJCdnZOwIr75JfjdRVn-gQ at adelphia.com>,
zatoichi  <catcher at linuxmail.org> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> In article <40657D14.3FBE7E82 at doe.carleton.ca>,
>
>> My current instinct is that you'll be happiest with Perl--
>> but it's a close choice, all around.  I'm most accomplished
>> in Tcl, and would happily use it, or Perl, or Python.  It
>> seems to me, though, that it's crucial that you be able
>> to exploit libraries that pertain to your domain, and, in
>> particular, optimized engines for linear algebra, graph
>> theory, and linear and mathematical programming.  Tcl 
>> lacks the weight that Perl and, to an increasing extent,
>> Python can boast in their libraries.
>Since you happily use Perl, Python or Tcl, I have a question. How do you 
>decided which one to use?  :-)
>
>Robert

Most often, whatever is already at hand.  It'll be interesting
some day to come across an organization that doesn't already 
have a standard in place.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar 13 08:49:46 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:49:46 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <tyfbrn25ilm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<20040313064925.57149.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c2v3hn$fbg$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Premshree Pillai" <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
> Anyway, what I want is to force variable declaration.
> In perl we have the "use strict vars" pargma...I need
> something like that...

For those of us who do not know Perl, and there are many, I suspect, on
this Python newsgroup, that means nothing ;-).

tjr






From gnupeaker at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 09:26:28 2004
From: gnupeaker at yahoo.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:26:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: explicit variable scoping
In-Reply-To: <tyfk71b66ko.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040323142628.95427.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> Actually, I think that "referencing" works fine as
> it is. The problem
> is that "setting" (at the moment) can either be
> "creating a new binding" or "rebinding an existing
name". 
> All this can be achieved by the simple expedient of
> distinguishing
> binding and re-binding. (Though I have no truly
> convincing suggestion
> of how this distinction should be spelt in Python.)

One of the main things I am after, is eliminating the
heuristic by which Python "guesses" whether a variable
is global/local, according to whether any assignment
was seen.  This confuses novices and annoys experts
that stumble upon it, and it is definitely a problem.

If explicit differentation between new bindings and
rebindings solves that, I'm all for it.

I have only recently noticed that when calling the
module's functions, or when using imported modules,
and perhaps in many other cases, you don't typically
want to have to explicitly name the global scope and
thus I take back my "global" syntax suggestion.

Explicit "let"s do seem to get rid of the
local-vs-global issue, while providing an elegant
solution to the nested-functions variable access
problems.

d=1
e=9
def f():
  def a=None,b=3 # Since locals are typically
                 # created via an assignment
                 # it makes much sense to allow
                 # unifying the creation of their
                 # scope [def] with the assignment
                 # to eliminate some redundancy
  b=4 # rebinding
  d=5 # raise error, neither local or global
  global e
  def g():
    e=10 # global assignment
    b=5 # rebinding
    def a=7 # new local binding
  print a, b, e # will print None, 5, 10


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Mar 28 20:14:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:14:52 -0800
Subject: How To capture an id into an array..
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F77@opus.amorhq.net>

BALAJI RAMAN wrote:
> class V(E):
>     """ This is a variable for MPY"""
>     def __init__(self):
>         print id(self)
>         check=[]
>         check.append(id(self))
>         self.val = None
> 
> what I do is call say v1=V() so it means that v1 belongs to the 
> variable class..
> 
> Again if I call v2=V() so now v2 also belong to this class.. I want 
> to keep a track of all the instances of this class.. and store their 
> ids in an array..

'check' is actually a list, not an array, but they're similar. You have
declared 'check' inside a function, and have not provided a means of
returning or accessing it; once the function ends, 'check' disappears.
You have to declare 'check' in a namespace which will persist. Try this
in a module:

# See how we declare 'check' outside the class?
# That means it exists in the namespace of the module,
# not the namespace of class V or its __init__ function.

check=[]

class V(E):
    """ This is a variable for MPY"""
    def __init__(self):
        print id(self)
        check.append(id(self))
        self.val = None


Hope that helps,

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 15 11:15:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:15:52 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bHk5c.2939$G3.25834@localhost>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> It would seem to be clear that what Guido considers to be strong typing 
> is not a feature of Python. As the following quote seems to indicate.
> 
> "Weak typing is not really a fair description of what's going on in 
> Python. It's really runtime typing because every object is labeled with 
> a type."
> 
> Here's the link http://www.artima.com/intv/strongweakP.html I would 
> recommend reading www.artima.com to anyone interested in programming.
> 
> So there we have it, Python is *NOT* strongly typed unless you know more 
> about Python than Guido van Rossum.

There's no indication there that Guido would have preferred to use the 
term "strongly typed" in this case, as the choice to use strong/weak as 
the focus of the article seems to have been the interviewer's, not the 
interviewee's.

Rather than your last sentence above, what you should write is "So there 
we have it, Guido is quoted using the term "strongly typed" in an 
interview in reference to languages which most comp.lang.python 
participants would now refer to as "statically typed", and in the same 
article referred to Python as "runtime typed", in contrast, probably in 
an attempt to avoid the usual confusion about whether or not Python is 
actually strongly typed (which certainly it is)."

Or something like that... ;-)

-Peter


From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Mar 23 04:16:46 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:16:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Windows Media Player 9 with win32com.client.Dispatch?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403231110260.20217@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi!

Anybody tried using Windows Media Player 9 via win32com? (And more
precisely, combining that with a Tkinter application.)

I found a few earlier threads on Windows Media Player and Python, but it
seems nobody has really got it to work, e.g. the below does not work:

wmp = win32com.client.Dispatch("MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1")
wmp.FileName = "C:/Path/To/Some/Media/File.wav"
wmp.Play()

Is "MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1" really the progid to use for Windows Media
Player 9?

Is there some other way to use Windows Media Player from Python?
Embedding C++ in Python? Any code examples?

Thanks in advance.

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Thu Mar 18 21:18:38 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:18:38 +0800
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<slrnc5i3ql.1au.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<c3b890$t8j$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<c3bm4t$440$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7ifzc62ovr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk> <c3cu7n$b69$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <7iish1bmv5.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:

    Peter> The mapping of '1' to 0x31 is defined by ASCII which is used by
    Peter> C. If a C instruction retrieves a char it reads data from an
    Peter> adress and if there is a 0x31 stored at the adress C treats it as
    Peter> '1'. My short form of this is "'1' is 0x31 in memory".

In the original post, the literal '1' need not be (and probably is not)
stored in memory at all.  In this case you have no "address".  But that is
subtle details.  The main point is still that, in the world of C, '1' and 49
are completely indistinguishable *values*.  Or put it in another way, in C,
a character literal does *not* represent a "character".  Instead, the
literal '1' is just "the *number* which, by the most common convention used
by the computer hardware, is interpreted as the character representing the
arabic numeral 'one'".  It is a *number*.  That's the reason why you can add
up 1 and '1'.  Not because C "ignores type information and care only the
memory".  (Try adding up 2.5 and "1").

It is an important distinction: even in C we talk about the abstraction of
expression, and the abstraction of character literal is a number, not a
"character" in the eye of a regular Python programmer.

    Peter> I didn't talk about different programs but different machines
    Peter> (architecture).  Python Standard Library (Comparison) has this

    Peter> Implementation note: Objects of different types except numbers
    Peter> are ordered by their type names;

As you said, it is "implementation note".  Also, about C your argument is
that different platforms can have different encoding in their characters,
and thus different ordering.  Since type names are expressed in characters,
it follows directly that names of types in Python also has such dependency.

Regards,
Isaac.


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Mar 14 06:28:18 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:28:18 +0200
Subject: root password in a .py script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.321.1079113246.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.321.1079113246.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <405441D2.1040100@zoran.com>

Hello Bart,

>> What is preventing you from prompting for the password on execution?
> The script must run automaticly/programmaticly on 200 machines.
Use `setuid' instead?

HTH.
Miki



From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Mar  8 21:47:02 2004
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:47:02 -0600
Subject: Sending bulk email from a Python script
References: <104qbdi22opnib8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2004030820470233617%cs1spw@bathacuk>

On 2004-03-08 20:36:34 -0600, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) said:
> You didn't mention how often you're doing this.  If it's only daily, 
there's no problem looping through smtp.send()
> as you describe.  Really.  You're doing the right thing.

Excellent. We'll only be doing this once (or at most twice) a day. It 
sounds like smtp.send() is the way to go. I can always re-examine our 
options if we run in to performance problems.

Thanks a lot for the advice,

Simon



From scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com  Mon Mar  8 12:19:46 2004
From: scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com (Scott Brady Drummonds)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:19:46 -0800
Subject: Initializing Member Variables
Message-ID: <c2i9vi$mip$1@news01.intel.com>

Hi, everyone,

I'm a Python novice and just diagnosed a problem that is confusing me.  I
wrote a class that looks like this:

class Keys:
  __dict = {}

  def __init__(self, key):
    self.__dict[key] = key
    print('keys are now: %s' % self.__dict.keys())


When I test this class from my Python interpreter (interactive), I see the
following strange behavior:

>>> import keys
>>> k1 = keys.Keys('1')
keys are now: ['1']
>>> k2 = keys.Keys('2')
keys are now: ['2', '1']
>>> k3 = keys.Keys('4')
keys are now: ['4', '2', '1']
>>>


Maybe this isn't strange for a Python developer, but it sure is for me.  I
thought that the "__dict = {}" line after the class declaration was supposed
to initialize that member variable for each object.  Obviously, that's not
happening.  Instead, that variable is retaining its value from one object to
the next, like a static member variable.  For what it's worth, it seems that
this static variable behavior is not observed when using scalar variables.
Just with dictionaries.

Where have I gone wrong?  What is the purpose of that "initialization" in
the Keys class?  What is the correct was to initialize a class's member
variable and guarantee that it is properly initialized for all objects?

Thanks,
Scott

-- 
Remove ".nospam" from the user ID in my e-mail to reply via e-mail.




From jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu  Sat Mar 27 02:02:12 2004
From: jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:02:12 -0800
Subject: Beginner Threaded file reading access
In-Reply-To: <4im76054evpqbgkk2ja96rq66t1rm9r2uk@4ax.com>
References: <2835a96b.0403230909.35be2b7b@posting.google.com>
	<4im76054evpqbgkk2ja96rq66t1rm9r2uk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c4393i$gbr$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Multithreading will not help this sequence unless (A) you have multiple
> processors, or (B) the processing in bar() needs to wait for something.  If
> bar() is CPU bound, you would get the same performance by just executing
> sequentially.

It is even worse than that.  In windows, Python is really a single 
process, and no amount of threading is going to let one instance of 
Python use more than 100% of a single CPU.  I'm not sure if this is also 
the case with linux or OS X.

  - Josiah


From do.not at spam.me  Tue Mar  2 00:21:59 2004
From: do.not at spam.me (Keith Bowes)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:21:59 -0500
Subject: Python as replacement for PHP?
In-Reply-To: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com>
References: <403fa54b@news.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <ERU0c.129$xL.46@fe03.usenetserver.com>

Erik Johnson wrote:

> 

CAUTION: I'm replying as a non-Python programmer.

>         1) I think Python is cool.
>         2) We can do system administration type scripts (currently
> implemented in Perl), web page generation (PHP), and (potentially)
> client-side applications (including GUI's that make socket and/or external
> HTTP requests) in one language.

You can do client-side apps in PHP too.  Pass the -q option to the CGI 
version or just use the CLI version.
GUI - PHP-GTK
Sockets - The socket extension or fsockopen() to treat it as a regular file.

>         3) Python's interactive interpreter makes it easy to try things out.

? Like the -r option?

>         4) PyUnit - we would like to develop a robust set of tests and be
> able to do regression testing. I'm not aware of a JUnit/PyUnit analog in
> PHP. Are you?
>         5) Python has better code support for complex native data types
> (e.g., tuples, dictionaries, sequences, etc. and being able to write these
> directly in a hierarchical structure rather than building them up piecewise
> with function calls and assignments as in PHP).

In PHP, all these things are essentially arrays and that works fine. 
Even the PHP developers say that classes are just syntactic sugar for 
associative arrays (that'll change in PHP 5, though).  So PHP is 
procedural; there's nothing wrong with that.

>

Not to sound like I hate everything which isn't PHP.  It's just that PHP 
does have a wide range of functionality and is moving toward 
command-line/administration capabilities, and is quite easy to learn if 
you know other C-like languages.  But if you think that Python better 
serves your purpose, then you should use it.  Surely, it would be 
possible to write a strtotime() implementation in Python; someone may 
have already done so.



From guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz  Wed Mar 24 20:31:42 2004
From: guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz (Guy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:31:42 +1200
Subject: monitoring a directory
In-Reply-To: <tfq8c.1266$JO3.3289@attbi_s04>
References: <c3tar3$3cf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <tfq8c.1266$JO3.3289@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <c3tcpr$4nv$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

dw wrote:

> Guy Robinson wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> What would be the most efficient or 'clever' way to monitor a 
>> directory for file additions/ modifications on windows?
>>
>> Currently I'm looping through the directory with a 1 sec delay. But 
>> doesn't seem that clever.
>>
>> Guy
> 
> 
> This page might give you some hints:
> 
> http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml
> 
> -Don
Cheers Don, looks like I can just read the text file.

Guy


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Mar 10 13:14:27 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:14:27 -0800
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
	<c718a6cf.0403080841.6d35a548@posting.google.com>
	<c2j71h$ovl$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
	<omes40p89urcnnb7jm49vh30n5aga90mr4@4ax.com>
	<c2n9s3$e44$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ng24i1-gfs.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

leeg wrote:
> On the subject of kernel hacking and Python, why can't kernel programming be
> considered in Python?

Some people share your opinion.  Using this toolkit you can write filesystems
in Python.  Admittedly the framework is all in C, but the actual methods
end up being in Python.

   http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/lufs-python/

Roger




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 10 06:51:37 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:51:37 +0100
Subject: Zippping a directory recursively from Python script on Windows
Message-ID: <404f0141$0$183$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

I guess that the best approach is calling a shell tool with something 
like os.popen(). But I cannot seem to find any free tools.

Winzip has a command line option, but for registered users only. That is 
bothersome if I want to install the script on other machines.

The same for pkwares zip. At least I cannot seem to find a free version 
of it.

gzip seems able to do the trick, but I need to install Cygwin, that's 
also a bother ;-)

Can it really be that there is no free .zip command line tool for 
Windows, or are my Googling skills just to poor?

Ideally it should just be a single .exe file that I can put in the 
folder with my script, for easy distribution.

Or is there a more Pythonic approach?


regards Max M


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Mar 15 17:46:10 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:46:10 GMT
Subject: Static Typing in Python
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnc5cat4.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>, Peter Hickman wrote:
>> He's actually contrasting _statically_ typed languages with
>> Python. Unfortunately he is using the word "strongly" where he should
>> be using "statically".
> 
> So you are saying the Guido van Rossum doesn't know what he is talking 
> about and I should take it from you what he really meant? And you said 
> that I was resorting to 'argument from authority' when you are positing 
> to know what he really meant.

Or you could look it up and find out which one of them is right.  Here's
a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_typing#Type_checking

Joe


From kirk at strauser.com  Fri Mar 12 14:35:06 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:35:06 GMT
Subject: root password in a .py script
References: <Law11-F27gpLPvp3Q5b000402d3@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.323.1079114406.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<c2t21q$1gu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <87y8q5g8sg.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2004-03-12T19:11:53Z, Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:

> Why am I doing this? Because users turn off ssh and change the root
> password. Mac OSX allows "administrative" users to do this. This script
> undoes their changes.

1) Why do you ever use the root password under OS X?  There's really nothing
   that you can't do using 'sudo'.  I literally *never* log in as root on an
   OS X machine.

2) Out of curiosity, why are your users disabling ssh?  If they're smart enough
   to do that, aren't they smart enough to disable your script?

3) Why would you store the unencrypted root password?  The 'chpass -a'
   command lets (actually, requires) you to specify an encrypted password.
   Store that in your script if you must.

4) Get a 2x4, paint it black and write the word "LART" on it in blood red,
   and tell your users to quick changing stuff or you'll have to schedule
   them for "an adjustment".  Follow through once or twice if necessary.
- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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From alimoe at hornet.berlios.de  Fri Mar 12 19:03:39 2004
From: alimoe at hornet.berlios.de (ali moe at BerliOS)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:03:39 +0100
Subject: thin4py 0.0.1 ann
Message-ID: <40524FDB.mailGS11NABJU@hornet.berlios.de>

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From CaptainN at altel.net  Wed Mar  3 22:34:28 2004
From: CaptainN at altel.net (CaptainN at altel.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:34:28 -0500
Subject: OT(Slightly): Thanks to Python.
References: <rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Cyx1c.755$xL.730@fe03.usenetserver.com>

I hear that quite a few people who were working with Java in the past are
now switching to Python, especially as Java code balloons in size when
compared to Python.

"Adonis" <adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:rfw1c.32179$hm4.7868 at newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>     This is my .02 as to why Python is excellent for academic use for
> upcoming CS graduates. Since I have been 14 I have been programming,
mainly
> BASIC/VB/C/C++ so I was familiarized with basic programming concepts. Then
> up until more than 1 1/2yr ago I stumbled into Python, looking for a C/C++
> compiler for windows, and Python kept coming up, so I go to check it out
> (this was on www.downloads.com) I download it, installed it, and ran to
the
> all common newbie problem of running IDLE and thinking that this is all
that
> Python had to offer, I naivly deleted it, thinking it was probably some
> novelty language, that had no support for it. I check out python.org and
> notice it was very active, and there was a more up to date version out, so
I
> download it again, this time I read the documentation and followed the
> tutorial, within 15 minutes I already had enough under my belt to start on
> small projects, which within a week I already had made a great deal, I was
> hooked! Cutting to the chase, Python introduced me to the world of OOP,
> which in VB I mildy touched its pseudo OOP methods, but have not been
fully
> exposed to it.
>     Now Python being a fully OOP language, it made it easier for me to
> understand what all this OOP stuff was, from generating events to
> inheritance, and organizing my code into reusable modules and the such.
> Also, the clarity in which Python syntax is presented made it MUCH easier
to
> understand any source, this was a big plus as I was studying other persons
> works to enhance my knowledge of Python.
>     Then this year I started in a local university to persue my CS degree
> after undergoing a 2yr college, in my university the language of choice
for
> the CS program is Java which I was actually dissappointed as I wanted to
> expand my knowledge of C/C++ which I already had some prior knowledge
about,
> but nevertheless with my background in Python, giving me the knowledge of
> OOP I dove into Java like a pro, everything came easy to me, I fully
> understood the language, everything was just some clarification and
learning
> the syntax (I still dislike Java, but to each its own), so I am writing
this
> as a thank you to everyone who contributes to Python.
>
> Sincerely,
>     Adonis
>
>





From jon_couchman at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  5 10:45:59 2004
From: jon_couchman at hotmail.com (jon c)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:45:59 +0000
Subject: is perl better?
Message-ID: <Law11-F77MdOkTRhlQn0002b71f@hotmail.com>

well the cammand is

java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries 
application-name

the total string is 6809 characters long.

I do not know the allowed character length (I am using windows 2000)

but perl just runs the command fine, whereas python results in

The following character string is too long:

........

_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger




From francisgavila at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 16:05:07 2004
From: francisgavila at yahoo.com (Francis Avila)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:05:07 -0000
Subject: A 'raw' codec for binary "strings" in Python?
References: <mailman.9.1078199710.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20040303160504411-0500@news.shentel.net>

In <mailman.9.1078199710.12614.python-list at python.org> Bill Janssen  
wrote:
>> You could use
>>     "\xc0".decode("iso-8859-1").encode('US-ASCII', 'replace')
> 
> Yes, this is what I'm doing at the moment.  But it seems a real hack.
> The string *isn't* in Latin-1; it's binary, it's data, and there
> should be a way of saying that.  Maybe a third kind of string type?
> 
> Bill
> 

The "raw binary" datatype is the str object.  The "text" datatype is the 
unicode object.  Yes, I know that str is more often than not also used 
for ascii text, but this is historical and ideally should go away.

Probably Python 3k will replace str with unicode (possibly calling it 
"string"), and grow a new datatype for raw binary stuff, with 
appropriate methods.  But no one has really given enough thought to this 
yet.

You can sorta get this now, by running python with the -U flag:

destaco:~ favila$ python -U
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> type('')
<type 'unicode'>
>>> 

It breaks all over the place, though.
-- 
Francis Avila 


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Mar 28 14:27:57 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:27:57 -0500
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com><106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com><406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu><106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.10.1080485351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106dukh7ncf9ad4@news.supernews.com>
	<bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <106e9tjr1nae8a1@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:bi1e601vsm4qtqaieqdo69bco64m7naupa at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:15:34 -0500, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >The difficulty here is simply that there is no way of
> >isolating a base object that is supposed to be the platform
> >for other objects from objects that are supposed to be
> >updatable with new behavior.
> >
> >The higher a tower you want to build, the firmer the
> >foundation. Conventions help, but if the conventions
> >are helped along by the language, that's even better.
>
> In Ruby you can freeze() any object.  But it seems like in this case,
> just giving your base object a distinct name, like PrototypePolygon
> will remind you not to change its definition later as you create
> triangles, rectangles, etc.
>
> I also would have no objection to some syntactic lock, like any object
> name ending in an underscore is an immutable object.  We could also do
> this the other way around.  Objects, by default are immutable.  That
> would take care of most uses.  If you want a mutable object, give it a
> name ending in ! (bang).

A lock would be useful, but the _ to *declare* it immutable probably
won't work in practice: it makes it difficult to initialize properly before
it's locked. Likewise, the ! (borrowed from Ruby) doesn't work because
the vast majority of objects are, in fact, mutable.

John Roth
>
> -- Dave
>




From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Fri Mar  5 09:52:09 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:52:09 +0100
Subject: reg exp and octal notation
In-Reply-To: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it>
References: <aY%1c.1664$z23.43344@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4048938a$0$41754$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

Lucas Branca schreef:
> Could someone explain me the difference between the results below?
> 
> ## $cat octals.txt
> ## \006\034abc
> 
> import re
> 
> a= "\006\034abc"
> preg= re.compile(r'([\0-\377]*)')
> res = preg.search(a)
> print res.groups()
> 
> loader = open('./octals.txt', 'r')
> b = loader.readline()

Look at the value of b at this point, you'll see:
 >>> b
'\\006\\034abc\n'

In other words, the backslashes are seen as literal backslashes.
readline() does no evaluation of the string, it just copies the
characters.

Regards,

Ruud

> preg= re.compile(r'([\0-\377]*)')
> res = preg.search(b)
> print res.groups()
> 
> 
> RESULTS
> 
> ('\x06\x1cabc',)
> 
> ('\\006\\034abc\n',)
> 
> 
> Many thanks
> Lucas
> 
> 



From alessandro at sephiroth.it  Thu Mar 11 14:10:08 2004
From: alessandro at sephiroth.it (Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:10:08 GMT
Subject: compile exe with anydbm module
Message-ID: <kQ24c.38289$O31.1627420@news4.tin.it>

Hi all
I'm trying to compile a python app with py2exe (not the 0.5.0.. i think 0.4.1) which uses the anydbm module
But when i launch the exe file created it raise this error:
exceptions.ImportError, no dbm clone found; tryed ["dbhash","gdbm","dbm","dumbdbm"]

Is there a way to use the anydbm module anyway?

thanks in advance




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sun Mar 28 18:41:45 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:41:45 -0800
Subject: Where to offer simple apps
In-Reply-To: <c47f0c$56b$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
References: <c46tob$bkl$1@online.de> <c47f0c$56b$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
Message-ID: <406762B9.3000401@mlug.missouri.edu>

Got a website? Post your code on there and create links from Freshmeat 
and places such as that? If you don't have a website then why not create 
one?



From ko-admin at li.org  Sun Mar 28 08:25:02 2004
From: ko-admin at li.org (ko-admin at li.org)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:25:02 +0000
Subject: Your message to ko awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040328132502.21548.1870.Mailman@zaphod.alt.org>

Your mail to 'ko' with the subject

    is that criminal?

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Fri Mar  5 15:34:54 2004
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Delm=E9e?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 21:34:54 +0100
Subject: is perl better?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1078501562.19534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.23.1078501562.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4048e530$0$1112$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

jon c wrote:
> well the cammand is
> 
> java -hotspot -showversion ...... -classpath loads of entries 
> application-name
> 
> the total string is 6809 characters long.
> 

Maybe a workaround would be to use the CLASSPATH environment
variable instead of the command line -classpath parameter
(using os.environ from python). Hopefully this would make your
command line short enough not to hit any hard limit.

	os.environ[ 'CLASSPATH' ] = 'lib1.jar:...:libN.jar'
	os.system ( 'java -hotspot -showversion application-name' )


Hope this helps,

Bernard.



From okyoon at stanford.edu  Wed Mar 17 07:31:08 2004
From: okyoon at stanford.edu (Oh Kyu Yoon)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:31:08 -0800
Subject: entropy
References: <mailman.27.1079374026.12241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c39gee$ba4$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

I am only a newbie in python, but I can say a few things about entropy.

Since a gaussian distribution is a continuous random variable,
you have to use "differential entropy" instead of "entropy".
They are very similar except that for "differential entropy", you need to
integrate rather than sum.
If 'f'' is the gaussian distribution, differential entropy h(X) = -
integrate(f*log(f) dx).
The distribution has to be normalized by the area( integrate(f dx) = 1).

I think if you normalize by the area, you'll get similar results.

Ohkyu


"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.27.1079374026.12241.python-list at python.org...
>
> I am trying to compute the entropy of a time series (eg,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory) using
>
> S = - sum p_i log2(p_i)
>
> According to the text I am using, the entropy of a gaussian
> distribution should be
>
> 1/2 log2(2 pi e sigma^2)
>
> so I am using this result to test my algorithm.  Unfortunately, I am
> not getting the results to agree.
>
> Can anyone tell me where I am going wrong?
>
>
>
> from Numeric import searchsorted, concatenate, arange, nonzero, log, \
>      sum, multiply, sort, greater, take, pi, exp
>
> from MLab import diff, randn
>
> def hist(y, bins):
>     n = searchsorted(sort(y), bins)
>     n = diff(concatenate([n, [len(y)]]))
>     return n
>
> # generate some gaussian numbers
> mu = 0.0
> sigma = 2.0
> x = mu + sigma*randn(100000)
>
> delta = 0.001
> bins = arange(-12.0, 12.0, delta)
>
> n = hist(x, bins)
>
> ind = nonzero(greater(n, 0.0))
> n = take(n, ind)         # get the positive
> n = 1.0/len(n)*n         # norm for probability; is this the right
normalization
> #n = 1.0/len(bins)*n     # or this? or something else?
>
> Scomputed = -1.0/log(2.0) * sum(multiply(n, log(n)))
> Sanalytic = 0.5/log(2.0) * log(2*pi*exp(1.0)*sigma**2)
>
> print Scomputed, Sanalytic
>
>
>
> Thanks!
> John Hunter
>




From lamote1 at netscape.net  Mon Mar  8 10:53:59 2004
From: lamote1 at netscape.net (chads)
Date: 8 Mar 2004 07:53:59 -0800
Subject: How to implement a union (C data type) in Python?
Message-ID: <2c22d0af.0403080753.f17a7e0@posting.google.com>

How would one implement a union (C data type) in Python, given this
simple example?

union {
   struct {
      int size;
      float time;
   } var1;
   struct {
      char initial;
      float time;
   } var2;
};


From mike at nospam.com  Fri Mar 26 17:15:45 2004
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:15:45 -0800
Subject: Can I access perl application API's from python
References: <af288a61.0403261331.3b0d3a6d@posting.google.com>
	<c428j6$o8$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>
Message-ID: <c42a2b$rj8$1@sea.gmane.org>

> Chris Kacoroski wrote:
>> I would like to use Python for several scripting tasks I have, but
>> the applications I am scripting against only export a set of Perl
>> API's. Is there any  package that makes it easy to use an
>> application's Perl APIs from Python.  Essentially I am looking for a
>> package that would read a perl module and allow me to access the
>> functions in that module from Python.

See also http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PyPerl

HTH,
Mike






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 15 19:03:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:03:07 -0500
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc5cat4.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <mailman.11.1079347355.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<4055a71e$0$28265$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfwu5m2pop.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055cb43$0$7558$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<tyfoeqy2jav.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<slrnc5cat4.a3e.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <exr5c.2971$G3.26195@localhost>

Joe Mason wrote:

> In article <4055ec40$0$15725$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>, Peter Hickman wrote:
> 
>>>He's actually contrasting _statically_ typed languages with
>>>Python. Unfortunately he is using the word "strongly" where he should
>>>be using "statically".
>>
>>So you are saying the Guido van Rossum doesn't know what he is talking 
>>about and I should take it from you what he really meant? And you said 
>>that I was resorting to 'argument from authority' when you are positing 
>>to know what he really meant.
> 
> Or you could look it up and find out which one of them is right.  Here's
> a good place to start:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_typing#Type_checking

Even looking there (or anywhere) won't really tell you "which is right" 
(although that particular page is certainly an excellent _description_ 
of a common usage).

Here are some more links to explain this: 
http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=prescriptive
and
http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=descriptive

:-)

-Peter


From k.robert at gmx.de  Fri Mar 19 05:26:57 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: 19 Mar 2004 02:26:57 -0800
Subject: Python doesn't know class of function ?  : class C:def f():pass;
	l=[f]; print C.l[0].im_class
Message-ID: <19804fd8.0403190226.4a060ed0@posting.google.com>

Python doesn't know the class of a method when container not direct
class attribute:

>>> class X:
... 	def f():pass
... 	g=f
... 	l=[f]
... 	
>>> X.g
<unbound method X.f>
>>> X.l[0]
<function f at 0x01A9E1F0>
>>> X.l[0].im_class
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'im_class'
>>>   


why is l[0] a <function>. Any possibility to find the class of this
beast dynamically?

Robert


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 15:53:52 2004
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:53:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
In-Reply-To: <20040314194619.GE7397@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20040314205352.89296.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com>

Hmm, it looks cool.  I actually don't know what
encoding is used for those Chinese documents.  How can
I know?

Can I do something like

file.getEncoding() 

to get its encoding?

--- Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> 4M files are not that big these days.
> 
> def reversed_file(name, encoding):
>     contents = codecs.open(name, "r",
> encoding).read()
>     contents = list(contents)
>     contents.reverse()
>     return "".join(contents)
> 
> Example:
> >>> codecs.open("utf-example.txt", "r",
> "utf-8").read()
> u'60: CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS (0x4E00 - 0x9FFF)   |
> \u4e25\u5f25\u6f25\n'
> >>> reversed_file("utf-example.txt", "utf-8")
> u'\n\u6f25\u5f25\u4e25 |   )FFF9x0 - 00E4x0(
> SHPARGOEDI DEIFINU KJC :06'
> 
> This assumes that you know the encoding for each
> file in advance, and
> that Python has a codec for it.
> 
> Jeff


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Mar  4 10:59:05 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 4 Mar 2004 07:59:05 -0800
Subject: how fast is object-oriented Python code?
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0403040759.452953ea@posting.google.com>

I am reading about object-oriented programming in "Learning Python",
2nd. ed. by Lutz and Ascher. On p299, they write

"... most of the OOP story in Python boils down to the expression
object.attribute. [...] In fact, when classes are involved, the Python
expression above translates to the following in natural language:
'Find the first occurrence of attribute by looking in an object, and
all classes above it, from bottom to top and left to right'"

It seems to me that doing this in a scripting language, at run-time,
could be slow, compared to an equivalent code not using classes. How
fast is Python OO code compared to non-OO code?

I know that object-oriented numerical code in C++ can be much slower
than the procedural C or Fortran equivalent, unless one is careful. To
what extent is this true with OO and non-OO Python?


From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Tue Mar  2 22:23:12 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (midtoad)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:23:12 GMT
Subject: Graphing library for Tkinter / Pmw?
Message-ID: <Acc1c.651426$JQ1.615733@pd7tw1no>

I've installed blt but Pmw can't find it. Yes, I've got tcl and tk installed
as well.   

I went looking for help on the blt site at sourceforge, and notice that the
last blt update was in 2002.  Has the package been abandoned?  If so, are
there are other alternatives worth considering?

thanks
S



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar  2 20:06:49 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:06:49 +1100
Subject: Speed Comparison Perl Python & C
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE013E6A70@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: ciw42
> 
> Compiled optimised code will (should) always be significantly 
> faster than
> interpreted code, but you lose all of the benefits of using a 
> language such
> as Python in the process, so it's all rather pointless 
> comparing languages
> in this way.

Of course, it's possible to create some *really* bad code in Python. I've just spent a day finding and fixing an algorithm which turned out to be O(n^3) in some legacy code (in-memory representation of an XML file for network topologies).

It was fine for the small, initial topologies that it was developed for. Unfortunately, it didn't scale overly well to the somewhat larger topologies I'm dealing with now ... like 21000 devices ...

Put it this way. One single function call was taking an hour to return. After doing some major refactoring - mainly sticking stuff into dictionaries as the file is parsed - that same function call now takes one second. Loading the file has been reduced from 3-4 hours down to 5 minutes.

Finding and fixing this bottleneck would have been a *lot* nastier in a lower-level language than Python. In Python however, the optimised algorithm is clear and understandable - in fact, moreso than the original code IMO ;)

Tim Delaney



From s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk  Tue Mar 23 07:42:37 2004
From: s.mountNOSPAM at REALLYNOSPAMcoventry.ac.uk (Sarah Mount)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:42:37 -0000
Subject: Problem using py2exe
References: <mailman.274.1080042213.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3pbc0$e0a$1@sunbeam.coventry.ac.uk>


"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.274.1080042213.742.python-list at python.org...
> At the very serious risk of teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, have you
> read Pete Shinner's own intro to pygame / py2exe?
>
> http://www.pygame.org/docs/tut/Executable.html

Yeah, interestingly I tried Pete's script which *really* didn't work (didn't
even
produce and executable), I believe because it's based on an older version of
py2exe.
My script is based on the examples in the py2exe distribution and does
produce an
.exe, just not one that works!

Ho-hum,

Sarah




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Mar 15 04:39:56 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 15 Mar 2004 01:39:56 -0800
Subject: pyXML beginner questions
References: <c2soid$191t46$1@ID-190842.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0403150139.1b9c09ce@posting.google.com>

Sebastian Fey <fey at parsytec.de> wrote:

> actually, is nodetype entityReference implemented in pyXML.

Yes, but you won't ever see them from a parse operation.

Print() will happily serialise an entity reference as &e; providing you
can get one into the document in the first place. Using
Document.createEntityReference() is the only way I know.

> (2) id also like to load external parsed entities referenced in the xml. 
> MSXML provides an extension(?) to DOM which returns the uri to an 
> entityReference-NODE. any similar in pyXML.

The standard DOM way of doing it is to use the DocumentType.entities
interface:

  doctype= entref.ownerDocument.doctype
  entdecl= doctype.entities.getNamedItem(entref.nodeName)
  uri= entdecl.systemId  # see also baseURI if using DOM Level 3 Core

This isn't any use for 4DOM as you won't get any Entity objects from its
parse stage and you can't create your own.

In DOM Level 3 Load/Save, control of whether Entity and EntityReference
objects are kept in the document is achieved with the DOMConfiguration
parameter 'entities':

  parser= implementation.createLSParser(1, None)
  parser.domConfig.setParameter('entities', True)  # False by default
  doc= parser.parseURI('file:///in.xml')
  serialiser= implementation.createLSSerializer()
  serialiser.domConfig.setParameter('entities', True)
  serialiser.writeToURI(doc, 'file:///out.xml')

DOM 3 LS is still at Proposed Recommendation stage and isn't supported
by 4DOM yet. (Insert customary pxdom plug here.)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From xholcik1 at fi.muni.cz  Tue Mar 23 08:32:33 2004
From: xholcik1 at fi.muni.cz (Lukas Holcik)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:32:33 GMT
Subject: question on charset conversion
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.58.0403231431430.53036@erinys01.fi.muni.cz>

	Hi all there!

Would you mind answering a question to a Python newbie?:) Here it is: I
have to download a page with windows-1250 and parse it and convert it to
iso-8859-2. It there some easy way to acomplish this task using the
standard distribution built-in modules? Or do I have to get some extra?
Thanks,

	Lukas Holcik

(I'm using Python-2.3.3 on Linux)


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Mar 14 18:36:51 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:36:51 -0800
Subject: Question on making names visible in packages
References: <slrnc59er9.3hp.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <nr6fi1-4r2.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> However, I'm only able to get this behavior when I leave the
> class definitions in the __init__.py file. When in other files,
> they of course have to be referenced as :

Make your init.py be like this:

  from filename1 import *
  from filename2 import *
  from filename3 import *

If you don't want lots of namespace pollution, you can import
only the symbols you want to export in the package namespace.

Roger




From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 11 08:41:12 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:41:12 GMT
Subject: Python style guidelines
References: <3064b51d.0403101112.3449e987@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0403110452.4e79fe5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3n06ncxhj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

beliavsky at aol.com writes:

> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.252.1078956580.19534.python-list at python.org>...
> > beliavsky> Is there a more recent set of Python style guidelines than
> >     beliavsky> PEP 8, "Style Guide for Python Code", by van Rossum and
> >     beliavsky> Warsaw, at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html , which
> >     beliavsky> is dated July 5, 2001?
> > 
> > Is there something missing you think should be there?  There's no particular
> > reason a PEP needs to be continually updated.  In particular, notions of
> > good Python style haven't changed a lot over the past ten years.
> > 
> > Skip
> 
> I am not qualified to say what should be in Python style guidelines. I
> have now read the PEP 8 style guidelines and see that Python versions
> up to 2.3 are covered. I think the Post-History date of July 5, 2001
> is incorrect and should be updated.

How so?  It hasn't been posted to comp.lang.python since then, and
that's what the Post-History: records.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  If I had wanted your website to make noise I would have licked
  my finger and rubbed it across the monitor.
                           -- signature of "istartedi" on slashdot.org


From bla at libero.it  Thu Mar 18 01:13:15 2004
From: bla at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:13:15 +0100
Subject: '1' + 1 ==> True ???
References: <c3b2g9$o45$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<405915F2.BE5ADDF3@alcyone.com>
	<c3bb96$19r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <1079589031.945449@yasure>
Message-ID: <c3bel2$4ec$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:50:33 +0000, Donn Cave wrote:
 
> My guess is that the most important benefit is that any list
> of Python objects can be sorted.

OH , YES !!
This is a sufficient reason ,for me, to admit 
what seemed a very crazy feature .
No i can sleep happy ;)

Thank you all , and good night from Italy .

bye . 




From nospam-deets at web.de  Thu Mar  4 06:15:55 2004
From: nospam-deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:15:55 +0100
Subject: Calling C programs
References: <c2714f$d7d$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c273fv$1p17c8$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Use module popen2.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From russelllear at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  7 12:43:47 2004
From: russelllear at earthlink.net (Russell Lear)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:43:47 GMT
Subject: CUPS or IPP in Python?
Message-ID: <nbJ2c.575$%06.300@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

I'm interested in doing printing from within Python.  If someone has wrapped
the CUPS library in Python, that'd be great.  Unfortunately, I can't find
such a beast.  PyCUPS sounded good, but it seems to have evaporated.

If there isn't a CUPS wrapper, perhaps someone has implemented an IPP stack
in Python?  Since CUPS uses IPP I should be able to use the printer's URI
to submit jobs.  Right??

Any thoughts out there?

Thanks,
Russell.



From sean_berry at cox.net  Sun Mar 28 00:36:01 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (sean)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:36:01 -0800
Subject: os module question
References: <pan.2004.03.28.04.16.59.189016@nowhere.net>
Message-ID: <7vt9c.49985$Bg.5493@fed1read03>

You might try

for line in os.popen("fortune -f").readlines():
     print line.strip()

os.system() always seems to return all output so I don't know why that
doesn't work.

I am sure someone better versed in Python will shed some light.



"Rasputin" <noone at nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.03.28.04.16.59.189016 at nowhere.net...
> On the bash shell if I type "fortune -f" it outputs:
> ___% /usr/share/games/fortunes
>     ___% zippy
>     ___% fortunes
>     ___% fortunes2-o
>     ___% limerick-o
>     ___% startrek
>     ___% fortunes2
>     ___% unamerican-o
>     ___% fortunes-o
>     ___% linuxcookie
>
> When I type os.system("fortune -f") in python it outputs:
> ___% fortunes
> ''
>
> How do I bypass it and get the orginal output?




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 14 23:56:46 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 04:56:46 +0000
Subject: Is reverse reading possible?
References: <20040314180105.GB7397@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.0.1079291453.682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i7aa50dts4i7gpkfarmor06gf6467oj7gm@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:10:47 -0800 (PST), Anthony Liu
<antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>The files (nearly 4M each)I am gonna read are a
>mixture of Chinese and English, where each Chinese
>character has 2 bytes and each English (ASCII) has 1
>byte, although the majority of the texts is Chinese.

Four MB isn't much when typical machines have from 256MB to 1GB of
RAM. Though maybe this isn't the case in China?

Still, if you are concerned, it is possible to read the file
line-by-line backwards. But it will be very difficult to impossible to
do it straight off when you have non-uniform character sizes as
character encodings aren't designed to allow this - it is not
generally possible to find the start-byte of each character scanning
backwards from the end-byte, only to find the end-byte scanning
forward from the start-byte.

Solution - do an initial pass reading the file, and keep a list of the
start positions of each line. The following code is untested and
probably wrong, but should show the general idea of how to do this
without knowing the encoding method...


f = file ("r")
starts = []

while 1 :
  starts.append (f.tell ())
  t = f.readline ()
  if t == '' : break


At the end of the loop, starts contains one position for the start of
each line plus one extra for the end of the file. The for line no. i,
the line can be read as follows...


f.seek (starts [i])
t = f.readline ()


And given that the purpose is reverse reading, the following generator
might be useful...


def backward_read (p_File) :
  l_Starts = []
  p_File.seek (0)  #  probably paranoia

  #  First pass, recording line start positions
  #  (no end-of-file pos this time)
  while 1 :
    l_Pos = starts.append (p_File.tell ())
    if p_File.readline () == '' : break
    l_Starts.append (l_Pos)

  l_Starts.reverse ()

  #  Second pass, yielding the lines of text
  for i in l_Starts :
    p_File.seek (i)
    yield p_File.readline ()


If you really want to avoid the initial read too, the general approach
would have to be...

1.  Derive a grammar (basically a regular expression) for a single
    character using the character encoding on your machine, such that
    a match would recognise the sequence of bytes for any single
    character.

    The general form might be something like...

      CHAR : 0x41          # ASCII character 'A'
      CHAR : 0x42          # ASCII character 'B'
      ...
      CHAR : 0x80 0x01     # A wide character
      CHAR : 0x80 0x02     # Another wide character
      ...

2.  From this, derive the grammar for a whole text file - without
    using common regular expression shortcuts such as '*'. The general
    form will be something like...

      FILE :
      FILE : CHAR FILE

3.  Reverse every rule in the grammar.

4.  Generate a parser from the grammar.

5.  Run the parser, using line end characters to figure out the
    'starts' of new lines.

Step 1 is a bit of a killer already - it's a pain having to find out
the details of an encoding when you're used to things just working ;-)

Step 4 is a much more serious killer. Traditional LL and LR techniques
(let alone regular expressions) simply won't cope as the grammar will
be full of shift/reduce conflicts. This is the parser-generators way
of saying that it can't determine the end token of a rule (in this
case CHAR) by scanning from the start token (remember the grammar is
reversed, so the start token of a CHAR is the end byte of a
character).

It is possible to handle this though. Tomita parsers are based on LR
techniques, but resolves conflicts at run time - they use 'stack
duplication' to keep track of different possible interpretations
arising due to LR conflicts.

Step 5 is then at least attemptable. As long as the degree of
ambiguity (ie the number of stack duplications) stays within
reasonable bounds, it should be possible to read the file backwards.
This will use a lot of memory, though, even with quite modest files.
And it is always possible that in a worst-case runs none of the
ambiguities won't get resolved until the whole file is read (and maybe
not even then, if the file isn't in the expected encoding).

This isn't intended as a practical how-to-do-it, obviously, but rather
as an explanation of why you don't want to have to do it!


Personally, I'd just read the text lines into a list and iterate the
list backwards.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Thu Mar 11 03:13:21 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:13:21 +0100
Subject: psycopg problem
Message-ID: <40501FA1.6030801@geochemsource.com>


  Hi All!

Every time I get an error psycopg refuses to execute further commands in 
the same transaction:

psycopg.ProgrammingError:ERROR:  current transaction is aborted, 
commands ignored until end of transaction block

Why is that? I would like to decide if I want to continue my transaction 
or not. Isn't it possible?

Best,

   G






From m_schellens at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 10 05:00:15 2004
From: m_schellens at hotmail.com (Marc Schellens)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:00:15 +0900
Subject: NumPy (numarray) problem with C code
Message-ID: <c2mp5q$2sja$1@news.riken.go.jp>

Following the NumPy documentation, I took over some C code,
but run into an error.
Does anybody have a suggestion?
Thanks,
marc


gdlpython.cpp:225: `PyArray_Type' undeclared (first use this function)

#include <python2.3/Python.h>
// python numarray is used
#include <python2.3/numarray/arrayobject.h>

// ...

BaseGDL* FromPython( PyObject* pyObj)
{
   PyObject *object;

// following is line 225
   if( !PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "O!", &PyArray_Type, &object))

// please forget the rest or have a look and tell me if that will work
// like I expect or if there is an obvious mistake
// its my first time to interface to python

     {
       // non-array - try other
       PyErr_Clear();
       // string
       char* s;
       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "s", s))
	return new DStringGDL( string(s));
       PyErr_Clear();
       // integer
       DLong l;
       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "l", &l))
	return new DLongGDL( l);
       PyErr_Clear();
       // complex
       Py_complex c;
       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "D", &c))
	{
	  DComplexDbl cc( c.real, c.imag);
	  return new DComplexDblGDL( cc);
	}
       PyErr_Clear();
       // float
       DDouble d;
       if( PyArg_ParseTuple(pyObj, "d", &d))
	return new DDoubleGDL( d);

       throw GDLException( "FromPython: Cannot convert python object.") ;
     }

   // array type
   PyArrayObject* array = (PyArrayObject*) object;

   int nDim = array->nd;
   int item_type = array->descr->type_num;

   // make array contiguous
//   array = static_cast< PyArrayObject*>
//     (PyArray_ContiguousFromObject( object,
// 				   item_type,
// 				   0,0));
   array = (PyArrayObject*) PyArray_ContiguousFromObject( object,
							 item_type,
							 0,0);
   if( array == NULL)
     throw GDLException( "FromPython: Error making array contiguous.") ;

   size_t dimArr[ MAXRANK];
   if( nDim > MAXRANK)
     {
     Warning( "FromPython: Array has more than "+MAXRANK_STR+
	     " dimensions. Extending last one.");
     size_t lastDim = array->dimensions[ MAXRANK-1];
     for( size_t i=MAXRANK; i<nDim; ++i) lastDim *= array->dimensions[ i];
     for( size_t i=0; i<MAXRANK-1; ++i)
       dimArr[ i] = array->dimensions[ i];
     dimArr[ MAXRANK-1] = lastDim;
     nDim = MAXRANK;
     }
   else
     {
       for( size_t i=0; i<nDim; ++i)
	dimArr[ i] = array->dimensions[ i];
     }

   dimension dim( dimArr, nDim);

   switch( item_type)
     {
       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //UNDEF***
     case PyArray_UBYTE:   //BYTE
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DByteGDL>( dim, array);
     case PyArray_SHORT:   //INT
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DIntGDL>( dim, array);
     case PyArray_INT:     //LONG	
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DLongGDL>( dim, array);
     case PyArray_FLOAT:   //FLOAT	
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DFloatGDL>( dim, array);
     case PyArray_DOUBLE:  //DOUBLE	
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DDoubleGDL>( dim, array);
     case PyArray_CFLOAT:  //COMPLEX	
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DComplexGDL>( dim, array);
       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //STRING***	
       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //STRUCT***	
     case PyArray_CDOUBLE: //COMPLEXDBL	
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DComplexDblGDL>( dim, array);
       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //PTR***		
       // case PyArray_NOTYPE:  //OBJECT***
     case tUInt16:         //UINT*
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DUIntGDL>( dim, array);
     case tUInt32:         //ULONG*
       return NewFromPyArrayObject< DULongGDL>( dim, array);
     default:
       throw GDLException( "FromPython: Unknown array type.") ;
     }

   return NULL; // compiler shut-up
}





From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Tue Mar 16 07:58:29 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Static Typing in Python
In-Reply-To: <4056c450$0$305$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040316125829.74774.qmail@web8310.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Bruno Desthuilliers
<bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> wrote: >
Premshree Pillai wrote:
> >  --- Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>
> > wrote: > 
> > 
> >>On 13 Mar 2004, at 08:07, Premshree Pillai wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Yes, I am aware that Python is dynamically typed,
> >>
> >>and
> >>
> >>>so is Perl, right? In Perl, we have the "use
> >>
> >>strict
> >>
> >>>vars" pragma to force variable declaration.
> >>
> >>I'm no Perler ... but by reading a bit of
> >>documentation, I get the 
> >>impression that you are a bit confused about what
> >>"use strict 'vars'" 
> >>really does. It seems to be some mish-mash of
> >>concepts: it imposes the 
> >>necessity to fully qualify names, to declare (the
> >>existence, not the 
> >>type of) variables with "our", and does some
> control
> >>of scoping rules.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > Err...you probably have the wrong idea of static
> > typing, I think. Static typing has to do with
> explicit
> > declaration (initialization) of variables (and not
> of
> > variable types).
> 
> I beg your pardon ? Why do you thinks it is called
> 'static *typing*'?
> Static typing has to do with compile-time *type*
> checking, not with 
> variables declaration. Believe it or no, there are
> statically (and 
> strongly) typed languages that does not enforce
> variable declaration nor 
> even type declaration - this is called type
> inference, and you can have 
> an exemple in OCaml.
> 
> 
> > Like in C, C++, etc, Python too is
> > strongly typed, 
> 
> C is certainly not what I'd call a 'strongly' typed
> langage, since you 
> can cast *any* variable to *any* type without the
> compiler complaining. 
> If you want *strong* static typing, go for Ada.

In an earlier post, when I mentioned that C/C++ are
stongly typed, I had explicitly mentioned - not
cosidering casting.

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From rpm1deleteme at direcway.com  Mon Mar 29 19:18:29 2004
From: rpm1deleteme at direcway.com (RPM1)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:18:29 -0500
Subject: Britney Spears nude
References: <mEF9c.8716$y62.4821@fe1.columbus.rr.com> <ekrbefg1.fsf@pobox.com>
	<c49rqo$2ebolk$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4aeen$2fp91b$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Jon Perez" <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c49rqo$2ebolk$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de...
> John J. Lee wrote:
>
> > "celebsrus" <sfji.azc at qfiiyaxb.com> writes:
> >
> >
> >>Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney
Spears nude
> >>Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney Spears nude Britney
Spears nude
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > I see Britney has branched out from Semiconductor Physics into Python
> > tutoring...
> >
> >
> > John
>
> With Britney promoting Python, we are UNSTOPPABLE!!  Perl, C#, Java, and
> Ruby, eat your heart out!

My wife , (yes my wife not me), was watching
a program on TV about this girl who was having
plastic surgery to look just like B. Spears.  It seems
she hadn't inherited the same kind of attributes that
the base class has so she was having them overridden
to match the base class.  So my question is which
instance of B. spears are we talking about?

Patrick




From merkosh at hadiko.de  Thu Mar 11 06:38:49 2004
From: merkosh at hadiko.de (Uwe Mayer)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:38:49 +0100
Subject: new python syntax: concatenation of functions
Message-ID: <c2pj49$ej3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

I know the python community is not very receptive towards extending the
python syntax. Nevertheless I'd like to make a suggestion and hear your pro
and cons.

I want so suggest a concatenation operator like in mathematics: ?
such that: 

    a(b(c(d))) <=> a?b?c(d)

Now, why do you think such an extension would be completely useless? ;)

Ciao
Uwe


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat Mar  6 14:16:32 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:16:32 +0000
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
References: <20040303181544.GB74292@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<4046EE84.9080700@rebirthing.co.nz>
	<mailman.69.1078593019.19534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <698k40p4rmrvuoq76c8evj1fmj40a2mb3m@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:32:27 -0500, Ed Cogburn
<edcogburn at hotpop.com> wrote:
> > My personal favourite is Tkinter, with the 'steroids' that go by the 
> > name of PMW.
> 
> Have you also tried wxPython?  I'm not advocating, just want to know if you've 
> also tried "the other one".  :)  

I've tried both and wxPython is more similar in my view to
traditional GUI toolkits like MFC on Windows etc.

Any heavy duty GUI work I do in Delphi and so my Python GUI work
tends to be fairly simple. Since I was already familiar with Tk
then Tkinter is a far easier system to learn. There are fewer
widgets and copious documentation. THe wxPython alternatoive
offers more widgets but less documentation, and much of that in
C++ - and its not as easy to translate as some would have you
believe!

OTOH wxPython does produce slightly nicer looking windows at the
end of the day.


> What does PMW do for Tkinter?  

Add a bunch of missing widgets and dialogs. And again these are
actually documented, even in a book - Grayson's Tkinter book.

AboutDialog, Ballon, ButtonBox, ComboBox(and variants), Counters,
EntryField(inc validation), MenuBar, MessageBar, Notebook(tabbed,
with variants), ScrolledCanvas, ScrolledField, ScrolledFrame,
etc...

> opinions suggesting wxPython was "better" than (standard) Tkinter, but I've 
> never seen PMW mentioned before when comparing the two.  If you've used 
> wxPython previously, how does Tkinter+PMW compare to it?  

PMW closes the gap but if you are in the business of producing
commercial quality GUI apps using Python I guess wxPython would
be better than Tkinter (but not necessarily pyQt/pyGTk).

Alan G.

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl  Fri Mar 19 06:00:59 2004
From: ruud.de.jong at consunet.nl (Ruud de Jong)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:00:59 +0100
Subject: ld.so.1: fatal ImportError: ld.so.1 No such file or directory
In-Reply-To: <86b5da9a.0403180001.3115ff55@posting.google.com>
References: <86b5da9a.0403171153.496e59ed@posting.google.com>
	<4058b6d6$0$41758$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<86b5da9a.0403180001.3115ff55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <405ad249$0$41762$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

o'seally schreef:
> i'm Not trying to find a solution for a python problem, i'm in fact
> posting a solution to the notorius "ld.so.1: fatal ImportError:
> ld.so.1 No such file or directory" error that many people are
> complaining about on the newsgroups/internet. when they search on
> google for this kind of error, they'll find a link to my
> comments/advice/suggestions. i would think that would be very helpful
> to them.

Well,

This was not obvious from a first reading. I read your original post
again, and basically you say:

   Problem: fatal ImportError: xx.so.n No such file or directory
   Solution: make the file xx.so.n visible through LD_LIBRARY_PATH

Duh. This is essentially identical to the solutions that have been
offered time and again whenever this or a similar problem is reported.
Your post differs from most others because:
* it was not in response to a problem, making it more difficult to
   discover the intention of the post;
* you needed over 100 lines of text to provide this solution;
* the liberal use of CAPITALS (which gives your post a rather
   spam-like appearance);
* the digression on irrelevant subjects (why bring free or open source
   software in the discussion?)

Because of the low signal/noise ratio, I did not recognize this
to be a solution for a problem that happens from time to time.

On the contents of your post: you suggest to create symbolic links
in one of the directories in LD_LIBRARY_PATH to make the required
files visible, instead of appending their directory
to LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Be aware that symbolic links make the
files visible to *all* applications -- you may not always want that.
Manipulating the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable gives you
more flexibility, and you also don't need root privileges to do so.
You can also choose to manipulate LD_LIBRARY_PATH via a shellscript
wrapper for the actual program you want to run; this is especially
useful when there are naming collisions.

Regards,

Ruud.



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Mar 29 11:03:25 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:03:25 -0800
Subject: tabbing probs (was: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes)
In-Reply-To: <106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>	<406829FF.5060304@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<106gg1jifa2n9c2@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406848CD.5070100@mlug.missouri.edu>


>I think you misunderstood. There is no "standard" length of
>a tab. A tab is supposed to insert (or otherwise render the
>equivalent of inserting) enough spaces to go to the next "tab stop",
>which by convention is a multiple of 8 columns on a fixed
>width mechanical typewriter. This is where tabs originated.
>  
>
No, I just fail to see why it matters. A tab could be 4 columns, 8 
columns, 15 columns, or whatever on a particular editor and code blocks 
will still line up.

>It matters. 8 columns is much too wide for indents in readable code.
>People do differ on that, but that seems to be the concensus.
>  
>
So rather than switch editors or change your editors settings you'd 
rather everyone be forced to use spaces? I presume four spaces? If 
someone uses eight spaces to indent will that also break the code? It 
seems to me that it'd be easier to configure an editor to show tabs as 
four columns, if you so desire, than to configure an editor to show 
eight spaces as four columns. Eight spaces is no easier to read than a 
tab that takes eight columns. It's just more typing to correct the problem.

By my own preference, if I'm forced to use spaces to indent rather than 
tabs, then I'll most likely use a single space to indent because I don't 
want to deal with pressing the space and backspace keys multiple times 
(trying to keep count) to make blocks line up correctly. I also don't 
find it acceptable to use an editor which kludges together such space 
using behavior for me to do what tabs would have done in the first 
place. Overall, I think I find code that uses a single tab, rather than 
a single space, to be easier to read.



From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Mar  4 04:04:59 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:04:59 GMT
Subject: Which Python module for PostgreSQL?
References: <mailman.3.1078270213.728.python-list@python.org>
	<oueksar0tu.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
	<slrnc4bgub.4aj.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.10.1078317331.727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc4ds9n.3gc.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <mailman.10.1078317331.727.python-list at python.org>, Gandalf wrote:

> Hmm, this is why I use C-style booleans (e.g. an integer where 0 means 
> false and not 0 means true).

You mean in your SQL schema?  I guess I could start doing that.  I'm moving
to sqlite anyway, which doesn't have datatypes at all.

Dave Cook


From noah at noah.org  Thu Mar 25 13:09:28 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 25 Mar 2004 10:09:28 -0800
Subject: monitoring a directory
References: <mailman.382.1080205904.742.python-list@python.org>
	<c3udtb$raj$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0403251009.5945d8ab@posting.google.com>

Guy Robinson <guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz> wrote in message news:<c3udtb$raj$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz>...
> Cheers Tim, that's the ticket. Perfect!!!
> Regards,
> Guy
> >>What would be the most efficient or 'clever' way to monitor a 
> >>directory 
> >>for file additions/ modifications on windows?
> >>Currently I'm looping through the directory with a 1 sec delay. But 
> >>doesn't seem that clever.
> > There are two methods that I know of (apart from the simple approach you
> > describe). One is described in this recipe:
> > 
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/156178

Now how do I do this for UNIX?

I always did the 1 second looping thing and felt somewhat ashamed that
I couldn't think of anything better... It seems like there should be
some sort of blocking system call that will return when a directory or
file changes -- something like "select".

Yours,
Noah


From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Mar 23 03:28:54 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:28:54 GMT
Subject: The problem with "as" [was "Re: PEP 318"]
References: <c3kh9o$th$1@graf.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<Xjm7c.3373$p8.414038@weber.videotron.net>
	<99dce321.0403211817.3704fe2@posting.google.com>
	<du71xnljrlt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<7x1xnlqs77.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0403221354.574ebdaf@posting.google.com>
	<1M-dnXrds_WKG8LdRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc5vrl2.vi6.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.264.1080014839.742.python-list at python.org>, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     DH> Possible future Python example that uses "as" differently:
> 
>     DH> def foo(x as int, y as float) as int:
>     DH>     "this function returns an integer, and takes an int & float params"
> 
> With no extension beyond the current PEP 318 proposal, you might postulate
> returns() and accepts() decorators:
> 
>     def foo(x, y) [accepts(int, float), returns(int)]:
>         ...
> 
> which extend foo() with code to enforce input and output types.  Further,
> function attributes could be added which could be used by tools like
> pychecker for intermodule type checking.

Not a big fan of that syntax - I have to keep the parameter names and
types in sync by counting.

    def foo(x [accepts(int)], y [accepts(float)]) [returns(int)]:

is a little better, except now we're getting very verbose.

For decorators in general, I like

    def foo() as [decor1, decor2, decor3]:
    
You get an explicit list syntax, but it's set off by a keyword so they don't
run together to the eye.  Because the keyword keeps it unambiguous, you
could even allow a tuple instead of a list: "def foo() as (x, y, z)".

So I definitely favour a keyword, but perhaps "as" is to generic.  What
about "has" or "with"?

Joe


From http  Wed Mar  3 14:40:42 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Mar 2004 11:40:42 -0800
Subject: Again: Please hear my plea: print without softspace
References: <4041796c.2181078@news.muenster.de>
	<1rfj4etyhlcw6$.1evn1aiuzkinp$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<40448d4f.8911015@news.muenster.de>
	<mailman.39.1078245647.12614.python-list@python.org>
	<4045a616.8831515@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7xishlsoqt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless) writes:
> I'd really like to. But unfortunately I've discovered the weak point
> in my own argumentation: a new keyword could and probably would break
> existing code. Therefore I can't go for a PEP until I have a better
> idea.

You could suggest adding an "attribute" to the existing keyword:

   print foo,bar    # print with spaces
   print.n foo,bar  # print without spaces

I don't care too much for this idea but it would solve your immediate
concern.


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Mar 19 18:16:21 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:16:21 +0100
Subject: Python Tic Tac Toe
References: <mailman.147.1079656435.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lllwpgvu.fsf@blakie.riol>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python at yahoo.co.in> writes:

> Hello folks,
>
> I wrote a web-based Tic Tac Toe game in Python. Source
> at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/275150
>
> A lot of the code is redundant, but I don't have the
> mind to optimize it now.

Could you improve it to play with bigger board and 5 stones to win ? We
could fight together ;-)
http://flibuste.net/libre/morpyon
http://flibuste.net/libre/morpyon/Morpyon-2.0.tar.gz

it works on console or with pygame

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 13:35:50 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:35:50 +0000
Subject: Working around a lack of 'goto' in python
References: <UBo2c.26879$pg4.12221@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <9gpm405d952ooq37bmeilacks37o4on086@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:18:28 GMT, "Brett" <abc at def.net> wrote:

>Two areas where I've found 'goto' two be useful in other languages are in
>(untested examples in C++)
>
>(1) deeply nested loops
>
>for (k=0; k < 10; ++k)
>for (j=0; j < 10; ++j)
>for (i=0; i <10; ++i)
>    if (/* some test */) goto END;
>
>END: /* continue */;
>
>and (2) repeating a while or for loop from the beginning:
>
>BEGIN:
>for (n=0; n < 20; ++n)
>    if (/* some test */) goto BEGIN;
>
>What are the techniques in python for simulating these algorithms without a
>'goto' command?

I've been using C++ quite a while and never needed either of those
patterns. I have used a goto in C++ not too long ago, but not for
anything close to your examples, and its my first time in any language
for at least 10 years.

The reason for it was what I call a 'short running state machine' - a
state machine which needs to run to completion when invoked. I could
have used a loop with an embedded switch statement, but that just
didn't fit what was happening and would have made the code less
readable and maintainable - a goto is the natural representation of a
transition between states.

Once in ten years of doing a lot of programming. I don't think many
people need to worry about this use case ;-)

The normal reason for needing to exit deep loops (or any deep set of
structures), and a common reason for using goto in C, is due to an
error condition. In that case, throw an exception. This is a much
better way to handle errors as the code that throws the exception
doesn't need to know how (or if) the exception will be handled.

The only other common case where I've seen C's goto considered a good
thing is in search algorithms. The easy exit from the (probably
nested) loops can be useful. But when doing searches I tend to regard
success as the exceptional case and throw an exception for it, though
I don't think I've used the technique in Python to date. 


If you have a use case for the loop restarting, I'd like to see it.
With a use case it is much easier to provide an alternative, and there
isn't any that strikes me as obvious as it stands.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk