Non GPL Python MySQL Client Library.

[François Pinard]

[Mike C. Fletcher]
> François Pinard wrote:
> >[Mike C. Fletcher]

Hi, Mike, and people!

> But the implication of what you just advocated is that the community
> (which consists of both libre and non-libre developers) *must* develop
> two different versions of the software.  In other words, they *must*
> duplicate the effort of development.

They only *must* if they do not want to accept the GPL.  That's the
price tag of not being part of that particular free software gang.
People are not forced to use GPL'ed programs, but GPL programs are not
forced either to be available for everybody at no condition.

I once had to work on projects which the customer did not want GPL'ed,
and it was part of the discussions with my customer that it would have
to pay for the non-free re-implementation of already available tools.
There, being non-free costed money (and freedom).  That's a choice.

> To some extent, sure, and for some project areas.  But there are
> lots of cases where people look at the GPL requirements and say "no,
> I have to re-implement that"... it's that waste that bothers me.

The waste comes from the refusal of the GPL.  The same as there is
some waste when GNU mandates the re-implementation of already existing
projects so to make them "free" as it wants to define "free".  From the
outsider that I am, it sometimes look like big debates over tiny nits.

> The simple fact is that there are groups doing proprietary software.
> For them the GPL simply isn't a choice.

OK, granted.  There is a price to that choice in wasted time, or money.

> The LGPL was developed precisely because there are lots of situations
> where that assumption just isn't true, and it's more valuable to
> get the contributions of everyone to the library than to force the
> bifurcation of libraries.

The LGPL was an experiment from the FSF.  After a few years, the FSF
decided that the experiment failed, and that the LGPL was not to be used
anymore, at least within the GNU project.

> [...] the BSD/MIT software tends to treat the end-developer as an
> adult, rather than a recalcitrant child. [...] If you like [the GPL],
> feel free to continue liking it ;) . As I mentioned, I prefer the BSD
> licensing scheme.

I'm not fanatic about the GPL.  But I think it made good things happen
in the realm of planetary software, and so, has some virtues.  Each
license wants to be re-quoted all over the place, and would it be only
because of that, they all are irritating.  The BSD license was a bit
verbose about Berkeley (this might have changed, I did not check
lately), but I surely rewrote a few modules in `tar' and `cpio' to get
rid of the long blurb, when I was maintaining these, a good while ago.

> And just to clarify, the GPL isn't a reminder, it's an attempt to
> *force* give-and-take.  The question is whether you feel the need to
> impose your desires, or whether you rely on people's better nature.

Vern Paxson, the Flex author, did not want the GPL in Flex, but the BSD
license instead, and has been very careful to avoid any usual library
routine in Flex for that reason (like `getopt' and `gettext', to name a
few).  We once were arguing licenses over a meal, and he got me laughing
to tears by saying: "I do not want to be forced to be free!".

> The GPL represents an attempt to enforce maturity on others, while the
> Python, BSD and MIT licenses assume the maturity of the audience.

I contributed to the GPL in the past as a way to recognise and be
thankful for all the GPL brought to me, and I've probably given back my
share by now.  But that's not a religion, and I'm not much in politics.
I'd be happy to try the Python license one of these days, if the
opportunity arises :-). I'm surely indebted toward the Python community
by now! :-) Deep down, any reasonably free license would do...

> And that, I think, is where I will stop, as we're obviously a good
> little way from discussing Python any more, and this debate really
> can't reach any sort of conclusion.

OK, so should I.  Keep happy! :-)

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard