standard IDE in python 3000 (or beyond)? *semi-newbie*

[Bengt Richter]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:34:47 -0500, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>Brendan Kohler wrote:
>
>> "mike kreiner" <mike.kreiner at gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1104391349.202802.182460 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> 
>>>Are there any plans for developing a standard IDE for python that's
>>>included with the python installation? I found information about other
>>>IDE's elsewhere online, but couldn't even find any mention of this
>>>possibility.
>>>
>>>I'm still relatively new to Python--I switched over from VB--and I
>>>found it difficult to learn python without an IDE. Most experienced
>>>programmers I know started out using Emacs or another text editor, and
>>>are very happy with that; however, I found it difficult to put all the
>>>pieces (like GUI, etc.) together myself. i tried many of the free IDEs,
>>>but was dissatisfied (VS is tough to beat in my opinion, much better
>>>than the average m$ application *plz don't flame*). although it'd be a
>>>difficult undertaking, i think an IDE would be a tremendous boost for
>>>python in terms of gaining support in education and the business
>>>community. has anyone else discussed this? does anyone know the BDFL's
>>>stance? thanks.
>>>
>>>~mike
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> That would be something called IDLE, which is included with python already.
>> 
>> 
>With respect it wouldn't, since IDLE doesn;t include a GUI builder. I 
>think Mike's cri-de-couer is for a tool that makes it as easy as Visual 
>Studio to put a GUI-based application together.
>
>To which I can only respond that it's obvious Microsoft haven't wasted 
>ALL the money they've spent on developemnt. VS *is* a tough act to beat, 
>though certainly not impossible.
IMO the GUI-building part was beaten before it even seriously existed, by Delphi.
I suspect that remains true, even though M$ enticed (.5 mega$ signing bonus rumored)
then-Borland's Delphi guru Anders Hejlsberg to work for them.
I guess it would have taken a Stallman to refuse ;-)

The machine-language debug windows you can get into with VS _are_ very nice if you
need to get down to that. They are better than what Delphi used to have IIRC
(at some version you had to throw a secret switch to turn on low level debugging, IIRC).
But for GUI building I think Delphi is the hard act to follow, with it's visual component
libraries that you and third parties can enhance. The project management stuff seemed to
me comparable.

I think there are Delphi/python projects, but I haven't pursued them.
>
>  I wish there *were* something equivalent. If Jim Hugunin can persuade 
>Microsoft to fully support Python in Visula Studio .NET they'd have at 
>least one more customer.
MSVS is very seductive. But so is open source independence ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter